okay all right uh we're gonna if everybody will join me please salute to the flag PL Ali to the flag of the United States of America the stands na indivisible thank you okay first off I want to want to thank everybody for being here and welcoming you to the first meeting of the Allandale New Jersey L board meeting for 2024 um there are some new faces on the board here which we will get into as we go through uh the parts of the meeting uh for the public we have some housekeeping things we have to take care of before we get into the into the meet of the meeting as this is our annual reord me that we have to set some uh uh um positions etc etc and some appointments so so if you bear with us it shouldn't take us too long okay um the first thing that we need to do is do the oath of office so do I have to read every single one every single people here no I'm I'll just do everybody together and everybody can State their name and I'll say I'll say I and everybody will okay everybody raise the right hand I state your name do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States willit of United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey that I will bear true faith and allegiance that I will bear true faith and Al to the same to and to the governments established and to the governments establish in the United States and in this state in the United States and in this St under the authority of the people under the authority of the people and that I will Faithfully and partially and justly perform perform all the duties of all the duties of your member according to the best of my ability so help me got thank you thank you thank you everybody all right so um everybody on here if I could just check if I could just uh everybody pass me down after you sign your with the box please all right um what I'd like to do is just just a couple a couple of the new faces here I'd like to welcome um Andrew agalo he is our DPW super superintendent okay um I've already seen some of the work that he's done here in the short time taking over and I just want to express my personal and professional thank you it's been wonderful especially through the snow and everything else that's been going on great j a lot of weather events great job great job um Joe deloo I just want to say congratulations to you and to Ed Connell for your recent uh re-elections or elections or whatever we call it what do you want to call it it's election okay trial by fire there you go um okay John you've been John you were here so you've been on the board for some time Jason um you've moved up now to a class four so thank you all right uh Frank again you've been here so thank you again myself Mel Melissa you've been on this for some time so again thank you um Greg um do something bre no no I know I know okay so Greg's here Greg's been on okay and Joe new thank you very much for joining us we appreciate it thank you okay and for the time that you spend um I also want to uh to welcome Larry C as our Council okay um Larry is taking over Prince Po we wish Chris the best in his new Endeavors as judge um Chris has been wonderful to us but Larry has already hit the ground running he's already been putting up with me and dealing with my questions and everything else so I just want to say I greatly appreciate apprciate that thank you thank you so um all right so I guess the next thing that we get into is roll call Linda roll call for everybody here I guess Vice chair woman Bergen here board member warala here board member Patrina here board member AA pres councilman delao here we member D here chairman serito here mayor wilinski here w Butler here Al County here thank you okay thank you so the next the next thing on our agenda is election of officers but before we get into that we have resolution 24-1 order of voting so the order of voting as we have proposed here is uh it would be Melissa Bergen first Jason warzala Frank patrino Andrew Alerio uh again Andrew I apologize I'm sorry get it that's an Italian I should know that Joe deliso John Dow Michael cero Amy wasinski Greg Butler and Joe Cony so um this would be the voting order I'd like to have a motion please uh for acceptance a motion thank you that's uh Joe that's Frank can I oh Frank I'm sorry Frank and can I have second I'll second thank you sir okay Linda please Vice chair woman Bergen yes board member Wala yes Bo member Patrina yes board member abaro yes councilman delicio yes board member D yes chairman too yes may wasinski yes Butler yes Cy yes thank you thank you okay the next the next thing on our agenda and we're going to group these together is election of the chairman the vice chairman or chairwoman an election of secretary um I would I've expressed that I would like to remain in this position um I have I I value what I do I value the people that are on this board with me and all the help that you guys give to me and especially having me take this thing over um after you know after uh the situation with Kevin um Melissa if I could speak for you you express that you would like to remain yes I would like to remain if you guys would have me right you got all right and uh Joe yes I would I would like to remain as secretary okay and we're okay with we done that before okay so is there anybody else that would like to volunteer for these positions okay thank you very much uh if not we can do it for all three okay so Linda can um make a motion can we have a motion thank you we have a motion for uh Michael Sero as chair Melissa Bergen as Vice chair and Joe deliso as secretary Will Group all three of them together can I have a motion for this please I'll make a motion thank you sir second a second thank you okay Linda please can we just do an all in favor we're GNA do an all yes okay we can do it all in favor okay so all in favor I I all right thank you everybody oppos all right anybody anybody okay so the election officers is done thank you very much again thank you for the FEI that you're having us we appreciate it okay the next thing that we have are the resolutions which are appointment of L use board legal councel uh as I said Larry Larry Cali is um now our or will be our board attorney we need to have a motion to get all of this set so correct that's we do yes okay so can I have a motion for Larry to be our uh land use board legal council please I'll make a motion thank you sir second thank you okay Linda please Vice chairman Bergen yes board member wal yes board member Petrino yes board member golio yes Council delicio yes board member D yes chairman Sero yes mayor wasinski yes Al Butler yes alter yes thank you very much everybody thank you thank you for greatly appreciate okay next on our agenda is the appointment of the L use board engineer uh Michael you've done this for a long time with us I'm assuming you're going to continue thank you very much okay um can I have a motion please for Michael vand of vanle engineering to remain as our land use uh board engineer please thank you second thank you good okay Linda please what was the second Frank chairwoman Bergen yes board member Wala yes board member Patrina yes board member goo yes councilman delisio yes board member Del yes chairman too yes mayor W yes Butler yes Cony yes okay thank you all right and next we have appointment of land use board planner Mr Snus is here thank you again I'm assuming you are uh staying and remaining okay thank you sir um so I'd like to have a motion please for uh Ed snikes to be our planner for the sport pleas thank you second thank you okay Linda Vice chairwoman Bergen yes board member will dollar yes board member KR yes board member goo yes councilman Delo yeso yesman suo yes mayor wasinski yes Butler yes count yes okay thank you everyone thank you again all right so that's now the next on is time and place of land use board meetings for 2024 we discussed in our last meeting briefly the uh calendar dates that we were planning for 2024 these uh will be posted downstairs in the uh on our bulletin board for the public we our we normal sessions are the third Wednesday of every month and then if we have a work session we proceed it with Monday before generally we don't have work sessions but uh if needed we will do those um we do have one change or or one two notes the first note which is the easy one is uh the November Monday meeting where we have a holiday there so we're not playing to schedule anything for the November work session I believe that's Veterans Day if I'm not mistaken and then what we plan to do for next month we are planning to hold the regular session on Monday February 12th and we will not have a session on Wednesday the 14th this way everybody can do what they'd like to do as need so is there any discussion on this by anybody in the Border are we okay with this okay seeing none uh I'd like to have a motion please for this to be accepted make a motion to accept the uh dates as presented thank you sir I'll second thank you okay Linda Vice chairwoman Bergen yes board member moal yes board member patrin yes board member Grio yes councilman delicio yes board member D yes chairman suo yes mayor wasinski yes wi Butler yes wi Hy yes okay and that is that carries over this okay and then the final thing that we need to touch on second to last thing that we need to touch on are the bylaws for the board themselves these were last adopted in 2018 they were circulated um I asked Larry to take a look at them which you you looked at them briefly but everything looks acceptable so we can push these through sir everything appears in order on the bylaws um if any amendments or need we could always consider that moving forward but at the moment those bylaws are right for continued adoption and carry over for this year okay thank you thank you so I would any discussion from any on the board anybody on the board okay then I would like please a motion to accept the bylaws make a motion thank you sir second I'll second thank you Lind Vice chair woman Bergen yes board member Willa yes board member yes board member Garo yes Council deliso yes board member D yes chairman Sero yes mayor wasinski Yesa Butler yesy yes sir all right thank you very much I believe that with that takes up all of the housekeeping work that needs to be done so next on our agenda is the approval of the meeting minutes for December 20th 2023 Linda I made modifications some notes in there I know that you Incorporated them and then they were circulated to the board are there any other comments from anybody on the board please okay can I have a motion to accept the minutes of the December 20th 2023 L use board regular meeting please make a motion to accept the minutes thank you sir and I have a second second okay thank you Vice chairwoman Bergen yes for member Wala yes board member Petrino yes councilman Delo yes board member D yes chairman Sho yes mayor yes yes all right thank you thank you uh next we have on our agenda the resolutions from the last meetings um in the past sorry what we've done is that legal and then if there's any discussion on and then we put you haven't seen okay I'll try I'll try and summarize okay um the last in our meeting in December we had uh it was file number lub 20233 resolution 24 10 William and Fanny Thompson 540 Hillside uh block 104 Lot 10 it was adding a new roof structure over the existing patio and a sidey guard setback uh Chris B put the resolution together detailing all of the concerns uh that the board put forward this was in fact s um and the resolution again is uh it incorporates everything that that that that Chris had captured that we had put in there and we have the resolution would somebody care to make a motion on this please I make a motion to approve the resolution thank you and can I have a second I'll second it thank you sir okay Eddie discussion okay seeing done Linda please Vice chair woman Bergen yes board member will Z yes board member Petrino yes councilman deloo yes board member D yes chairman Sero yes mayor wiski Yes W Butler yes okay right so and then the second one that we have is file number lu22 23-12 resolution 24-11 Peter and Amy Bloom 34 harriton Road Allendale block 509 lot four and it's to add a wood burning fireplace and a side yard setback it was a side yard setback encroachment again um chrisb put everything together here in the resolution um they've been circulated we also added information in the back that detailed the uh the proposed fireplace as part of the resolution so um does anybody have any questions any additions any anything to discuss on this no okay thank you uh seeing none I'd like to have a motion please to accept this resolution make a motion to accept thank you sir as second I'll second thank you okay Linda Vice chair woman Bergen yes board member Wala yes board member Petrino yes councilman delicio yes Bo member D yes chairman C yes mayor linski yes follow yes okay very all right everybody audience Thank you very very much for for bearing with us on all of this and now yes sir [Music] yes that's okay all right um next on our agenda is the public uh part of the meeting for public hearings the first uh that we have on here is an application uh 24 2024 d03 uh kurk Patrick is the applicant 27 lakes in Allandale block 408 lot 14 this is uh purely a conceptual review um we normally do this so that we can um listen to a potential proposal none of this is binding yes okay so um I just want to be clear but you know we're more than happy to work with you and hear what you want to do so we're going to go ahead will all three of you folks be testifying tonight uh just Hur myself okay so we can swear you both in at the same time you can if you want yeah add me in too okay I'm on the application okay we'll swear all of you in just so if you're speaking um if you could raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do yes so if one at a time if you could each state your name provide an address and spell your last name for the record please Kon aser corn from amland and uster corn 42 Central AV Midland Park New Jersey can you spell your last name please o s t e r k o r n thank you Kurt Patrick 101 Arthur Street Richfield Park New Jersey [Music] gy Patrick p a t r i c k 101 Arthur Street Richfield Park New Jersey thank you floor is yours excuse me for one quick minute I'm [Music] sorry have we have a decently full room here and it might be for another matter so if any any body's here on the crown castle matter it's lub file 20241 300 West Crescent Avenue it's for collocation of an existing Telecom facility that matter is being carried to the next public hearing of February 12th the applicant is not here this evening their Affidavit of service is in order so the announcement for the next meeting is being made now you will not receive another public notice of that hearing they intend to be here on February 12 so if anybody is here for that matter it's not moving forward tonight and if anybody would like to leave um now will be the time if you were here for that matter okay okay no taker no taker all right thank you I apologize for for taking that time so please um tell us why you're here what you want to do yeah so um I am here as I've been informed that um the potential lot that we're looking at um has a number of different challenges but um it's a beautiful piece of land and we want to U potentially put a single family home that galy myself and our two kids one's on the way baby loading yeah thank you very much um um would occupy and um we understand that it is a non-conforming lot and I reached out to U the building department spoke with Linda and Anthony who are fantastic by the way so thank you very much uh very responsive and um answering emails at night and on the weekends yeah day after Christmas as a matter of fact because I was perusing Zillow as does and I saw the lot available and uh he responded instantly anyway I'm not here to bore you with that stuff but um it's a beautiful piece of a property as I mentioned but it does fall at the um the other side of Lakeside Drive where uh there's um a slope and we're here just to U see if the board would be open to granting bulk permits or bulk variances because of the non-conforming uh lot and a number of the different challenges there uh if you would be open to the proposed drawings which you should all have and a doe version for somebody as well and kiston has been great in advising what is possible and that yeah that's good [Music] good hi so nice to see the board again it's been I I don't think I've been back now for a couple years but um so Kurt had contacted me uh engineer surveyor looking at the property and you know initially I saw the Brook and I talked about repairing requirements uh State mapping had showed Wetland so he's already pursued a wetland consultant so we're well aware of the state regulations of Outside Agency approvals that would be needed for the property um we put on a proposed dwelling uh we were just looking at a a decent size we knew we went narrow in the in the house it's only it's less than 24 ft wide and longer with the thought that you would drive in on the east side um as far away from the brook as possible with their idea of being able to as a second floor look over to Crystal Spring to the lake and be able to still also see out the back to the brook and we were staying outside the reparan buffer from the Wetland consultant that was out there they had looked at all the wetlands were more to the west side of the property and that wouldn't have impacted the property as much still aware that we would need to go through outside agencies and get all that delineated um the biggest hurdle right now that we see on this aside from being in front of uh this board for bulk variance is there's a slope easement but all we have right now is that it's per a tax map uh we looked into getting a title search um but because the lot's been vacant the title Searcher it was going to cost a significant amount it was more like $6 to $800 to do that as opposed to normal like a $100 range um to go into the history of the slope so I advise Kurt let's come to the board first see their feedback on the bulk stuff and if it's positive then We'll advise to get more of the research as to this slope slope protection and from the little bit of understanding of what we did and I had spoken um to Mr reand beforehand was that it is the potential that it's part of the dam that Lakeside Drive is the dam to the lake that we would have to talk to Dam safety and see that it wouldn't necessarily be cutting into the dam that all the potential would be is that the driveway would be in essence filling slightly in order to make the grades work um and we would have that house structure there but it Ma majority of it we're not trying to cut or do anything in that slope easement so I understand that there are the Outside Agency aspects that we have to work with so the purpose for tonight was just to consider because of the non-conformities of how this lot is and the narrow part of it of where we would be looking and it's outside of all the The Wider Parts is that we would have bulk requirements um for front yard setback rear yard setback we would meet sidey yard setback uh the initial analysis I did was coverage was completely under for building an impervious coverage because we're basically leaving 2third of the property undeveloped it was just more to try to get a little bit of feedback and understanding of how the board might feel of granting these types of bulk variances for setbacks knowing that we have outside agencies that we would have to deal with that's the the gist of what we're because they're they've put an offer in and it's in a due diligence phase but before they want to move forward with further investment into the property in terms of title searching and researching and getting into a long-term due diligence for approvals with the seller um but what I had advised and it something to consider after we end up going to Dam safety but if the board is not on the side of the variance is being granted it's kind of an undevelopable property that the owner I mean ultimately it ends up being a park or parking lot like there's not much else to do with it if a single family home can't be built knowing we have these Outside Agency approvals to work with so they know they have hurdles to deal with but they love the property and saw the potential and part of that hurdle is knowing what the board would see in terms of granting these bulk variances M Miss H can I ask you one question quick on the relief do I have the top height right at 44.2 feet is that what you're showing the application references that as top height did you send in those architectural oh those were architecturals from another house those were just very basic those are not the design for the property okay that would that would be der relased yes no no no we would comply with the 35 ft those were an example that I I gave this print of the 23.7 by 51.5 as like an idea of what the house could look like but it was always the intention the two and a half story 35 ft we would comply with that was a house I did in Rutherford that was just an example file so how many how many variances are you actually talking about two front yard and rear yard I thought you said side yard no the sidey no cuz we're at 42.3 feet on this I said not the side I thought I thought meant to say not the side yard okay it's just front and rear and we're honestly at the most narrow part of the property trying to stay out of repairing in zone and not encroaching onto that West Side as much but if you can also see the way the property goes is while there is the setback based where the property line is it's significantly far from the edge of pavement so perception wise it's it's greater than 40 feet of what would be a normal person like a normal house setback because the edge of pavement is so far north between the right of way how much how much how big of a house do you think you could build um the house without variances with without if you had to comply how big would the house be um the house would [Music] be sorry I don't even think you could you could it would you couldn't comply no because the front yard is 40 ft and rear yard is 50 feet and at that the the property on the east side is only 57 feet in depth and at that narrow part it's less than that this is being advertised as a residential building lot it's in the doublea zone and the the owner's been trying to sell it I don't know how long he's owned it for the reasonings as to what else it could be put on the property I know in the years I've been on the board and this is just we're just having a Frank conversation the board kind of rounds on fault variances we try to we try to encourage applicants to avoid variances whenever possible there's a lot of homes the vast majority of homes now they'll unfortunately have non-conforming conditions and they don't have any options you're building something new so you have options unfortunately this particular property doesn't allow you any options no I don't know know what else I mean unless you it goes back to the seller of being like that he it's just I don't I don't know the history of when he bought it how long he's owned it for of trying to unload it it seemed though when you had said you had called the town they had been inquiries about the property previously that I think you're the one that only pursued it further I think the quote was I was the only one brave enough to come in front of the board so far it's been I I don't know how you have the conversations further I mean it is zoned for a single family so I don't know much else of to that history of it and any garage proposed or no oh right now I mean the the dwelling would have one we had talked about possibly extending to have it be a front entry because we had room in coverage to work with but it was so conceptual in nature we didn't get that far the only reason I bring it up is the requirement of the code for residential yeah I mean I think in this layout I think the architecturals didn't have one they would have one I just don't know if when we actually hired an architect if it would be built into this footprint or if they would actually extend into that larger driveway area I shown actually have it extend out so they can just have the and they still get because this house footprint was 1,200 square F feet so it's not a huge house it's 20 it would be 2400 with the two floors um but if they wanted the extra garage space I mean from an impervious coverage they would be not they wouldn't have a variance for that it would just be the the front and rear yards FX Michel you guys look at the proper yeah it's a it's a tough piece of property to put a house on um you know it's a it's uh either part of the dam or immediately adjacent to the dam it's down Downstream of the dam it's got a flood flood way delineated uh on part of the property maybe not where the structure is repairing buffers maybe some Wetlands so you know beyond the zoning there's there's a lot of challenges with this particular piece of property I mean personally I don't think I'd want to live on a dam or right Downstream of the dam but you know that's just me being an engineer but uh you know I can see what the appeal of the property is I mean it's it's located adjacent to the lake and adjacent to the stream but I think I think from a permitting standpoint there's there's going to be a lot of u a lot of difficulties if the board was to be comfortable with the variances uh there'll be a lot of challenges with outside agencies having with outside I was just going to ask you with all the outside AG as you had raised right but with outside agencies ultimately they're just looking to see if they go look for the next property or keep pursuing this of how much they want to and I know everything you had said it's not binding it's just more of is it and understanding that would the board would the board at least do the part that we're responsible right and ultimately when we would come in we would we would have much more due diligence with outside agencies we put on more planning testimony and speak to the neighborhood and have much more information as to it it's just more of like like you said if we are not ones for bulk variances if they're going to invest all this into the property not that it's going to be binding of you just being like you're going to turn your head and say no but is it something to consider of bringing in a resident in town and develop a property while challenging in nature but something that could be done I mean understanding we're outside looking at being outside repairing and buffers in Wetlands the damn safety is the bigger one that we have to work through and I was trying to find context before this meeting and I just all my previous colleagues just didn't get back to me in time but like if we can cut in just for the driveway portion I mean ultimately that house we would be coming down to their first floor so their second floor all the they'd be able to see the lake and then you'd have a deck out the back to look over the brook so the impact to the dam is yes but from an engineer I understand where Mr freeland's coming from like the same time I necessarily wouldn't but like I have my own little intricacies of houses but like they've walked the property and they saw the potential of it and building a house that's more like canal levered and has different potential to work with the slope of trying not to actually disturb the natural ground but we still end up having bulk variances on sepx so it was just some feedback of saying like what you guys would see on this or not board members I know you had mentioned that this is just a conceptual or maybe just an example but would I'm looking at again just because of pictures in front of me potentially a proposed basement and not really knowing the water table and where that is in relationship to the lake which as there probably at least half of everyone in this room has dealt with water over the last month I I just don't know it how possible it is and I kind of share the same feelings that Mike does because we we've we've been on a lot of these projects where even where you're not supposed to get water you get it and here it's like you're basic I mean you're you're just you're in it so I don't know that I mean challenging with the variances absolutely but I think even more challenging to put this type of dollars in a property that potentially would be inhabitable I mean there's houses um by the celery Farm I think there a couple houses that some of them might be abandoned right one of them at the end of the block like that flooded half a dozen times possible you know I just feel like all these harder dollars into this might not be the property that's just my take on it and what and the bances that are required I mean that's that's another issue just and we did have an application come before us not we were talking about a reasonable set back to a property line and being able to have access around your property to maintain your proper property and I don't know if you know 5 foot setback to the rear property line provides Reon it's a narrow Street yes there's there's a lot of challenges I don't know I think it's a right and that was an existing that was an existing building brand new I'm sorry Mike what was because what's behind Oh you mean to just act there's Woods there's like the easen and stuff behind but you're saying to stay on your property and access the rear it I mean the idea of the board if we're going to Grant the variance is is to granted variants where you have to go on the neighbor's property right to be able to maintain your lot and your and your building do you say maintain it like just for the just to get around it maintain it at some point you'll have to reside the house okay down tree I mean how many of those have we seen where you can't you can't even access it but you know I bring it up because we had we had recently had an application for an existing house where they wanted to do Renovations on it and it was a real concern about you know how you were going to get through a side yard that was about this size they were looking for like the world's smallest machine but I mean and also just speaking I mean this was up this is very conceptual in nature I mean so when we speak to an architect I mean even working within that side slope it's not necessarily you know they aren't looking to do the Basin but you're not looking to cut down I mean they'd be looking to do in essence can of levers portions on peers like leaving the slope but if it had to be that the house got this was just very conceptual but like it could be if we're saying access needs to be seven feet or something we come up with a number that that would they could work with an architect but it's still ultimately it's still you you they will have side and uh rear and front yard variances no matter what so understanding the concerns about the drainage and we have to still talk to damn safety of trying not to impact any part of that slope and that would still be onerous on them of wanting to do that and if the potential of drainage but speaking to the board on Strictly just the variant side of it which I believe that's what you guys would be looking at that that is what right not the potential for like if they hit groundwater I mean I think that was just Frank's no no I understand I appreciate it because I know I'm just thinking about I mean right you build a new house Flat lot you're gonna have to do a perk test right Mike's gonna have to come out make sure that you know all your runoff is going to stay on the property so at the end of the day if you go and do a perk test and you hit water at 24 inches what do you do right which is right which is out of basement right and that would be part of ultimately their due diligence before they even got to that point by the time you get to a perk testam here ask no I would end up recommend given this area I would end up recommending they're going to do that when we do the more of the formal survey to doting I mean look if if you if you wanted to uh you know kayak in the basement great but ultimately you I'm just thinking about the process of building a new home right uh unfortunately I've done it many times it's there's a lot of stuff that you're gonna undergo you know a lot of things you have to undertake that are costly and I would hate to see you know a young couple just you know becomes the uh money pit at some point right it's just you know I know there's always a dream but the reality is this is the challenges of the variances yes are are the burden of the board but there's many many challenges which I think you're going to face I I don't know that you know variances aside I wouldn't want to see someone to protect you guys as well everything that that Frank is saying I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you but everything in name is is to help you guys okay as well okay you know we want to welcome you to the town but weh like I to see a problem when you're moving into the town because you know this and then you know a lot of a lot of you know the board is basically expressing yurian saying you have all of these other things that you have to deal with with the dam you know with the dam and everything else that that I'd hate to see it I'd hate to see you spend all that kind of money but if that's truly the dream to do this I I would say Council correct from W go into yeah so your lead time as difficult as it might be to prosecute the bulk Baran case for this property which has a decent amount of shortcomings that you're hearing from the board members and their concerns candidly your lead time and your hurdles with the other agencies I think are going to be much more significant than this so often times it's prudent and the board's trying to help you folks here you know find a path if there is one the more common route and Mr veland can chime in on this too is pursue the other agency approvals first because those are going to be more complex they're going to be a much more protracted review process and timeline and if you don't get through those it won't matter if you get through local zoning at all so right understood and I guess their point was if if they got through everything which is why they were here saying if they got through everything and then they got to local zoning and then they're just like no like then it was that's was trying to get an idea of the feedback first I think it's tough for the board to give you any sort of soft level of confidence at the moment because the plans are not terribly evolved at the moment right um the bulk D is not there you know you're calling out a few likely setbacks but um there's not much meat on the bone for the board I think to really look at this and say how they would feel based upon other applications they've seen over the years and how they feel about the relief and where you're going to have Deltas from code conformance so I think it's tough at the moment for the board to give you a thorough consideration on this but I still think that the other agencies is the proper Pursuit first because if you do it the converse like now which is concept goes good let's say you come back here you prosecute an application let's say you do get an approval you might not get through the other agencies at all eight to 10 months down the road Beyond local zoning right and I they were they my that was not my advisement they were already pursuing this conceptual they had spoken before I was contacted so I think it was just to get the feedback back but then it was knowing like we have to go these other routes first before you come here it wasn't that we were going to come here first and then do it it was just they they had already started because they had conversations with the town at first so I was like well let's just keep it let's just get an idea of what the board thinks of it we know we have to go to the de so I think the review scrutiny is going to be more intense at those agencies than here so I would think that might be a more proper starting point okay yeah me I would just try in again like like I said earlier you know we don't typically like bul variances especially in the case of a brand new construction and you know the fact that you seem like a nice family there's a lot of great places in Allendale you're going to shoehorn a house on a piece of property it's not going to fit and it's not going to it's not going to be conducive with the neighborhood it's just not going to look right it's my opinion just to say you want to live next to the lake and you're going to put a shed on it it's I think you could find something much nicer in town somewhere that's my opinion thank you anybody else on the board want to yeah and I mean I would have to agree um with the bul Varian is new construction and when you know you're designing a new building you want to try to stick within the VAR you know the the guidelines rather than you know we look at like Mike Gand was mentioning the other um one with the tight setback that was an existing nonconform when it's new construction we're trying to stick within the guidelines but okay did you have any other questions there you have any other qu I mean I'm not even gonna bring this to any kind of no there's no not a vote or anything just you have any other questions for them no NOP thank you all right thanks thank you thank you luck Good Luck Good Luck thanks congratulations on the new one too thank you very much okay next on our agenda was uh Luv 20 24-1 the crown castle application which as Council has advised that is going to be moved to the February 12 meeting so we're going to fill over that and our next application is is Luv 20- 202 24-02 Laura Aquino 203 West sale Avenue lock 1708 lot 14 The Proposal is for a one-story rear Edition and conversion of existing garage space to living space and construction of a new detached garage pursuant to 27064 C parentheses 2 and 270 d8b parentheses 2 so okay so welcome hi welcome sir good evening folks so who will be our Witnesses this evening um I'm Laura aino someone Mr quino can you uh please State your address for the board and spell your last name sure 203 West Allendale Avenue um my last name is spelled AQ i n o You're the property owner I am okay and you have experts with you here this evening I do okay yes CH Primal g m l 157 Park Avenue alale Associates 29 CH Street New Jersey you spell your last name please could you spell your last name l a t i and you're the project architect or engineer State engineer your license is current in good standing yes Mr grial same for you yeah any questions on qualifications uh I'm okay Mr Bal get to see you I know I know you know that I know um I started here with Mr B I know that you know the whole the way this Bo operates so thank you and he where you've been before us before so you know how we go right so welc I'm sorry my name iser I'm a license Builder I don't know that I'll have to say anything to my case okay my address is 260 [Music] hire your okay very good why don't we swear all the folks in collectively if you wouldn't mind raise your right hand please you all swear or affirm the testimony you're about to provide is the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth thank you all right thank you for coming before us um we all have we have all seen the plans that have been proposed in the picture so um we know you want to tell us what you want to do sure I'm just gonna start with a little bit of background if you don't mind um so my name is Laura aino and I reside at 203 West Allendale Avenue with my three children I have been an Allendale resident since 2007 and in my current home since 2018 which I co-own with my mother Emma Kino who's sitting behind me um my mother will be 88 years old next week and lives alone ever since my father passed in 2021 with covid um we along with my siblings think it would be in my mom's best interest to live together so the overall plan includes removing the barn which is actually removed adding to the existing garage renovating the existing garage and building a new attached garage to make a suite for my mother I had plans in hand and was awaiting general contractor bids when I received a good offer to remove the barn the barn demolition permit was granted and demolition was completed this past October I had no idea that there would be of any consequence to remove the barn on a different application than the rest of the work that was planned from the beginning of the project it was difficult to get contractors estimates back to me I eventually discovered that additional engineer engineering had to be done and some additional needs from my mom required is slight architectural redesign we hired creger homes Inc and complet the building permit application which was submitted to the building department on December 6th some 8 weeks after the barn was demolished um so that just gives you a little bit of background and I'm going to have tore explain um the changes that H happen some or to explain the project further all right board members we're going to proceed accordingly any questions okay thank you okay T all yours uh good evening tore Associates I will be presting at the site exhibit A1 14 [Music] 17 dat 20 and I've provided an exhibit to the bo A1 A1 details existing property on the left and [Music] proposer modification on the right subject property is a 25,2 foot a a Zone requir there a notation um and specific requirement is that there be 20, 175t property lot is actually oversized of 17,000 175 property has 100 somewhat irregular shapes um and the side Lot line are not 90 degrees or perp right away so that's pack side set packs but in summary oversiz 25,5 foot lock 100 ft of Frontage occupied by ranch style sing family's home um various photographs of the existing home um it has gentle topography gent topography from West ad to the rear of the property and occupied by a single home that home currently has 14 14.4 side set on the right hand side 17 and half fo y set back left side the zoning requirement is a of 15 ft and depending on your four area ratio inside yard will discuss um for whatever reason a front overhang of the home is 32 and a half ft from the right way these are existing VAR conditions there's no change being proposed that is the home is located why is it located 14.4 versus 15 ft on the right right hand side does have a house was built which was built in 1960 U the um total lot coverage currently is 15% where um 34 27% is permitted um lot coverage would increase up to3 still in compliance with the proposed or area ratio is currently 9.1% so incre that um test previously given there was a large barn to the rear of the home that Barn was 28 by 44 these are photographs of that Barn that was recently you can see from the photographs were these filed with the board or are these new this evening these These are being presented the first time this you know I don't want to mess up your exhibit decks so we we call these A7 this um that bar was down in October yeah October fact the Lumbers and part of the interest in other than the fact that been disarray actually some of the weather Lumber has value so there was actually interest by finally there's a contractor located who's interested in knocking down the barn for the Salvage Val Lumber that Lumber actually is still on site the barn has but the barn has been removed that before the barn was demolished it was the benefit of that four area ratio when you remove that lose that benefit Mr Bri will give testimony that that what is proposed is at 14 by 21 foot addition uh to the rear the home and a replacement of garage uh further to the rear home accessed by a driveway currently it's floating garage as indicated on the o wraps what is proposed a new garage in the back to replace the garage that is being modified in your primary home um that driveway driveway would lead to that um garage terms of drainage um Topography is th Pages here slopes to the rear uh there is a seage pit with r at the the low point the driveway majority of driveway with to the Swale leading to that cish pit similarly the garage and its Group Leaders with connect to se pit existing group leaders would be connected to p um there's cury proposed along the side of the garage to the side of the driveway on east side of the driveway protect the neighbor uh East run off all R off directed secet another I believe this is pull up in the B engine report the prop proper has the benefit of very wide actually a very good curve cut uh leading to the existing um garage um that curve cut happens to be in based on the quality of the work we believe that was constructed by the burrow but it is wider permitted 20 foot wide varies um 20 26t at the curve and then 24 it Narrows down that existing nonconformity isos to remain there are no modifications to that c that really is a summary about the site phography existing set indicated Mr Bri will give testimony this regard if we apply the plant sard requirements need proposed gross building area minus but not the benefit of the barn that was torn down the side setbacks would be fire would be 19 and a half ft they are indicated by Red Line on my on EX A1 um I point out that the proposed addition to the rear of the home is more than the 19 and a half uh foot in side yard Department the existing home is not changing the rear addition which meets or exceeds the required 19 half reir um summary of site before you go so I just have a question so you said the curb cut was that like that when you bought the house yeah it was it was exist y okay and the curb that's going in along the proposed driveway that's new this curve okay how tall is that curve four six in you proposing to pitch the driveway towards towards the home to to allow for drainage to go towards your receiv that you're doing you're pitching the drive and then back and dra location the driveway dra to the the drainage of the driveway is away from the neighbors towards the middle of the site to the SE you're just using gravity you're not put any catch basins or anything no there's there's a gr on top of the secet that's hard to see and at 1% swells enough the 1% yeah yes will be okay sorry go ahead the benefit of this property is that is walking a short walk train station um however with with that benefit comes parking description there's no parking permitted on the uh Frontage of the property cross the street I believe it's it's three hour parking um so the we provided adequate onsite parking an on-site turnaround here to service the Gage the rear mass per code the maximum with driveway at that point 35 ft that allowed one to pull into the driveway back out make a reable conet cur K turn um we also as is evidence is being proposed for the old proit we also have area front to park to walk into the home without blocking primary driveway um when holidays or visitors guests particularly there no Li ACR that's all been Tak consideration one the pictures that you have where there's a car park in the front in the upper left hand in the upper leftand photo where the parts park that's where that would remain yes remain for exactly that person visitor Amazon delivery so on so forth are there trees in the left side of the property where the proposed driver gr would be back in back behind the barn is there any trees that are back there it looks like there's some behind the house based on the pictures right to the left hand side of that upper left hand picture there's some there's cly they located on the very I think very lied actually one sampling root system is buried under 12T concrete porch not board members [Music] questions all right I'm opening up to the public for questions of this witness only you have any questions please come up state your name and you can ask questions of the engineer okay seeing none I bring it back to the board all right um thank you all right CH I'm sorry I apologize I'm sorry would you care to come up please come on up and state your name and again the questions right right here and the question is yes name and address please so we have it proper question are only for for so the question I need your name your name and address please my name is Alora Linder I am uh 93 Al as I the property right on next door to 203 and I'm on the side where the driveway is you're on the side where the driveway is and where the driveway will be yeah um so I had a question because um what he just there now as far as the driveway is concerned so my house is is right near it you know back in near and a porch there being porch and my mom lives with me so he's 92 so he brought her house um and so that um driveway the existing driveway um is already a double driveway and you were stating you have St a bar and then you have a space for another car to go to the um to the to the new to they correct yes um so as it is now it's it's well first of all it's not very attractive to have Double C cement right there um and there's cards part there because that's for your garages you know um and my feeling is have a couple of feelings I um because now this driveway is now going to be going you know down right along our property and very very close so I think that is one of the variances work out that that's right along my Gardens and everything there we had the barn before with the Privacy right now everything's an open you know feel to us I've been here 37 years ra my children so um I'm also concerned with the look and how it will perform to uh you know the house already before so my question thank you okay because that because we can have the comments at the end my okay all right thank you so my my question is the that the the existing driveway is going to remain the the to double par yes so in other words like if if if they have groceries they can just park there and go in do their groceries and then you know or use it as even two cars there my concern course is that they'll always be two cars there that it's very convenient to go you know into the house so in other words the car can be here and then another Drive will go down and then there's a turnaround back there she she use it sorryy to drive I'm like keep going it's a long driveway the long driveway um and then they'll also have like a turnar around in the back yes um to come around okay I just want understand how much concrete and and where you know asphal okay well where it would be I can't see the picture okay you change an impervious surface was currently 3700 square feet of the per surface that will increase to 5800 square feet but that is in compliance permitted lck coverage and as this so happens the addition is actually over a large concrete slab the large warmer patio you're probably very familiar with it patio large concrete slab that's actually where the addition is is going over but answer to your question um yes there is an increase in part of the surface is in compliance with zoning code and grain Provisions okay so but the the the closeness maybe that's not your to our property then because it's it's it's now going to be not there it's going to be even wider it isn't going to be just what's there now that drive from and a half to 7 ft from the property I don't believe there's yard requirement for dri is five yard okay you can but right up to you [Music] yes thank mind if I comment on that let's see if there's anybody else in the public first and then we'll turn over to Mr gal all right anybody else okay bringing it back to the thank you so do you have a rendering do you know how close their house is to the property line on that side because I just looked on Google and it looks like it's right there yeah not typically when we see applications did we show the neighbor houses and actually Mr gri has I have an I will be discussing okay exhibit a for that information Prov so to the to the neighbor's point you know I do have kind of a question the amount of driveway and parking you have as well I mean you you like married to that is your client amable to C some of that parking in the front and just making a driveway that goes to the back the park the parking in the front is only for an occasional use for a visitor it's not for for the use to the family per se uh as far as family cars they're going to be in the back and gra groceries are whatnot are going to be coming in the back through the mud entry they won't I doubt that the the ainos are going to be using the front door much at all it's just going to be an occasional visitor for Mrs aino sen senior who because there's no parking on the street and the cross an elderly person is are going to want to park across the street and then walk across the street with the school buses running by but they could park in if in the rear they could park in the rear they could so in other words if that piece of asphalt if the plans were modified I got one too there see that if this was modified that this piece wasn't [Music] here okay we just the parking would be here and then parking in the rear only that's what your mother want right okay I mean that would alleviate some concerns that's soine you okay without any that my I'm trying to understand the concern if if they were to leave it the way it was if it was a garage they would be allowed to have two cars two cars there anyway so I don't know that it's any different and the problem is there is no on street parking on that side yeah um I would be I would suggest maybe a a better buffer with some propos plan things to provide some screening but if they were to not do anything and leave the garage there you'd still have the two cars I don't know that it I don't know that it's what are you trying to achieve you're trying you don't want to see the cars the cars are there now so perhaps the applicant would be uh receptive to providing some sort of planting buffer just to provide screening for and that bu bring me in here or wherever wherever it would satisfy the uh the sight lines of the neighboring property so that they they wouldn't be and I have a new house built next to me when when when she backs in her Jeep the headlights come through our kitchen but it's it's a garage what are you going to do I mean I don't know that you can like I said if you don't make a change and it stays two cars you're still stuck with the two cars there which is which is normal right but there's a garage which house the V now now there being no garage yeah but there's no ordinance saying that you can't park a car outside overnight no but the code says that you can't park between the house and you're not supposed to park between the house and the street but I don't think they're proposing that Mike I think they're saying you're they're concerned with the with the parking on the right correct where it's like double wide so the thought process is to park a car there so that you have unobstructive access on the left side right right I mean we just pointed out the fact that you know we think that there's relief required from section 270 the code to allow that double wi driveway to remain because there's the potential for a car to be parked between the house and the street without without a I think the neighbor's concern is more Aesthetics well and it kind of you know the driveway is getting so big it's almost the concern is it going to be a big parking lot how many cars manys could be in there well the the family cars will be in the rare the only the only car that we parked in the front would be a visitor a guest an occasional guest it's not going to be a permanent thing or a delivery or something like that no it's less for me to shovel I mean from a building point of view the front door is for Rises up to get and this gets pitched the walkway that's going for the new edition that that's in view of Emma's walking that's going to be uh the ramp so no one in the family is going to everyone get the main entrance of the house is going to be the one coming from back yeah that's where the C I mean you have architectural PL that's the M thech that's where the co closet is uh and we don't have any objection to narrow that just might point out so again you're open to narrowing this right here where I'm pointing on the on the if you have to I mean obviously you know she has three sons 2018 and 12 the two sons are going to be at College a 12y old has a little while till he get and I might like that this this is a keto doesn't drop so the you know in terms of planting we you know I got two feet I mean are we oppose to putting some Morey or something in there no but that's not really going to and we have a further problem that uh or issue that the you you are I'm sorry you're the left side neor you're you're over here right I don't know if you can see but you're over here okay I I have met the husband in the backyard at one point or another U there's a fence there that they built that is actually according to two surveys on Mr problem we understand about that down but again which makes it even closer to us are there would there could there be um you know some of those T trees to go down because yes my concern is I'm in my garden which I have I have a beautiful Barn right there Myer you know the privacy of now I'm just we have no problem indicating that put some trees along that line but in terms of size of really blocking you know I only have two feet of land there's two feet yeah I mean a bulb that's only two feet is a 4 foot tree Mike do you think that's that dimension's enough for something to survive there uh I mean it's it's TI I don't I don't know I don't know they would be I want to be nice for both of us because they're in there know the kids are out there playing in the driveway they're going to have their parties whatever you know you have your lovely deck and you know just huge piece of poerty and you know either so you know we would our F has going to be coming down part of my garden coming out I lost my bars so now you can imagine now you know my you know it's just this driveway another the garage and then I'm also going to have cars here I just you know I feel and I know it was there before that two far thing but went over there and you say why did they allow that it do it okay so you you'll have a chance at the end ma'am to give a sworn statement comment in favor against whatever You' like at this point it's still just liit the questions of the witness and and we've got a few that have testified that's fair game but it's going to have to be based upon their testimony at this point your questions otherwise we're going to get into sworn statements by you and we'll have to swear you in and we will do that at the end if you'd like okay okay so bringing it back to the board any further questions for p Bo okay so thank you all right you have before you uh off of the architectural plan I'm just going to go through those quickly the first sheet has a site plan which is superseded by mr's site plan and uh there's a zoning requirement table some uh stuff that the building inspector wanted from NCC data requirements Etc yeah okay on the second sheet copy of the FL plant for the the renovation of the garage and the addition the goal here was to uh provide M aino Senor a grade level living state that was uh accessible in the event that she was not ambulatory anymore she's currently ambulatory not a problem but the provides her with a small sitting room a bedroom some closets and a ad compliant bathroom there's a mud entry coming in from the rear it's going to be a ramp entry so you can roll in uh there's a a laundry room which is for the entire household and and a closet I imagine there's going to be a lot of sports here in there from the Suns they have a lot of stuff and yeah that's true yes so so essentially that was the idea we we looked at the possibility of instead of uh taking over the garage and putting an addition to go over top of the existing house and make a second floor addition and one of the major problems with that is where are they going to live during that process because once you pull the roof off you know it's a all bets are off so so we we decided to go with this this plan which which allow them to live in the house and they can just shut the door where to where the construction's going to be and they don't have to deal with it so the balance of that plan is just the foundation plan for these for the new edition and some other details third sheet is some information on the on the garage the foundation for the garage and the garage floor plan some details on Windows and Etc an electric plan for the garage and some notes the fourth sheet has elevations of the proposed Edition going that the front elevation of the house we we're eliminating the garage door and there'll be some windows there instead uh the rest of the elevation stays the same the only difference is there going to be new siding I guess the board had a question on siding we've got a sample of the color final sighting look for that and the roofing is right there to complement the side of color on this seat we also have some elevations interior elevations of the uh the bathroom and the uh and the laundry room and Electric Plant the fifth sheet is elevations of the garage the garage is 24 feet by 24 feet two 9 foot wide overhead doors and a uh a gable roof with a 10 on 12 pitch the height of the garage is 20 feet and also we have some building sections of the garage and the addition and the last sheet is just uh some uh standard notes any questions on that I also provided in the application a uh area map taken from the Allandale P map I took some measurements of uh front yard setbacks and distances between uh Jason Holmes they shown on that you have that before you it's a nice it's a eight and a half by 11 should have gotten that okay is there a new fire going on CH no no that's all details on the backr well that's that's just generic detail okay if they were going to do a fireplace that's how you do it gotcha but if you don't not going to have a fire put red line okay so all right so we've got a house to the right which is 209 which is uh that's that's part of this whole this whole area is part of the Omens van hton Homestead which was established in 1797 and the the barn that we've been talking about was part of that that Homestead and based on information I got from the prior owner the barn was probably built somewhere around 1840 it's been around for quite a while but no longer the uh 209 was built in 1869 and I think it was the second house on Homestead but the distance between uh 203 which is the property in question and the adjacent 20 9 is about 40t and from 203 to 192 the linders property is 27 feet and then from their property to the adjacent house is only about 19 feet I have to note that the uh lot 14 and 15 are in the a Zone the other the other Lots adjacent are in the B Zone so okay the proposed addition is going to be approximately 45 feet from the linder's house the proposed garage is going to be about 70 feet from the linder's house and about 75 feet from uh house 22 Malon about 180 ft to the the closest senior housing unit and about 180 feet to the house on lot eight now my measurements indicate that the uh front yard setbacks for 20 uh 209 West Allendale about 27 feet uh 203 is 32 feet per the uh the survey 29 ft for the linder's house and 32 feet for the uh house on the corner and that's the prevailing setback average is about 30 feet whereas we're 32 so under 270 57b technically the 32 feet we show as non-conforming is technically conforming but there's a question there anyway because two of the lots are in the a Zone and two of the lots are in the B Zone but the ordinance is kind of Silent whether there's two different zones so but it's a moot point anyway because not changing okay I also provided you with some Street Escape pictures somewhat similar to what Mr latinus had shown that's on one sheet you should have all how to copy that have another exhibit which you do not have a copy of we're gonna call this A8 uh no this is actually should be A4 this is the L hel survey yeah pass a you're talking about the step back and dimensions are you going to offer the testimony as to the accessory structure deficiency the only variant that we have the existing the proposed garage setback is deficient is not there's no deficiency with to thear we're showing it at seven feet no first hold onik tell me if I'm wrong with that I'll I thought access six feet six feet six feet okay so we're okay okay should be okay I I always add another foot just just in case people threw up okay okay so what you have in front of you is the prior survey by uh lantel me which was done in uh 2018 I guess that's when you bought okay which shows the the barn that has been taken down now the barn the the demolition of barn was integral to the whole project because we had to remove the barn in order to have a place to put the new deda garage because the barn was not compatible to be made into a garage for numerous reasons so I I've I've drawn a depiction of the uh of the barn an elevation and the uh the Gable end faed the ler property and it was only 0.9 feet off the property line and uh it was 28 feet high so there there were two variances of two Conformity with regards to the barn which we eliminated by taking the barn down the side yard the side yard 29 versus 6 feet and the height 28t versus 21 ft okay the second sheet on that exhibit I just gave you is a spreadsheet showing uh gross building areas of what I call original that's including the barn that's where we started this whole project started with the barn the original sets of plans issued in July included the barn still standing and that was supposed to be the demolition that Barn was supposed to be part and parcel of the building application for the addition and the conversion of the garage it was all one package so with the barn in in place the total of gross building area was 3614 requiring a side yard of 21.6 eight ft removing the barn and replacing with the new detach garage and the addition we drop our gva to 3252 and a required side yard of 19.51% of over 2T which appears which would satisfi 2764 C which is or no 2 270 3782 which which is the the section that talks about additions to nonconforming structures so under the original Proposal with the barn being part of the demo we were going to reduce the side guard not increase it so we technically we wouldn't have needed variance we should have just gotten a permit the only unfortunate part is by the time the permit application was submitted the barn was gone and now the Mr hacket said oh there's no Barn we're starting from only the principal building GB GBA which requires only a 15ot side yard so so he's saying we're going from 15 to 1951 but actually we're in reality we're going from 21.6 eight ft to 19251 we're reducing the last sheet in there is a graphical depiction of the sidey yard 1951 versus the 21468 and the and the the fil the the darkened area is the reduction in the side yard encroaching so it's my position that this project actually reduces the side yard encroachment it does not increase it questions so when I look at the original property survey yes at the tightest point it was is that 8T N9 ft9 ft okay and the proposed new garage is 7et It's s yes which is a foot more than more than it's required so it shifts it over yes the the other thing is the Gable side of the barn face that sidey yard yeah so a neighbor would be looking at something 28 foot high okay the Gable end is now facing towards the front so the property on to the to the east are looking at the side of the building which is about going to be about 9 foot high wall and then a sloping roof so the impact on on the neighbor is less as far as the height of the structure at least the appearance of the height of the stru if the overall height of the structure have to remain at the 20 can the pitch of that roof uh be reduced you look I understand you guys want you know you're looking for adex for I get yeah well because I see that your I see that the that the pitch on the addition is is 6 in 12 in six on 12 because the rest six on 12 okay yet the the reason I the reason I have the higher pitch is so you're not knocking your if you're up there and you're you're moving boxes around you're not smacking your head on on on rafters and the born and there's going to be some collar ties across there too of course of course I'm going to add so and born originally was 1212 1212 and it was 28 ft high and 28 ft high so I'm I'm 8 ft lower we could reduce it somewhat but it it's the Minimus idea was to be able to walk there without banging your head but there's no intent to make a room up there for somebody stay no it's it's not structured for that it's only 2 by sixes with the strong Bo it's designed for boxes light boxes you know that's always a concern oh yeah yeah I know okay that's where these questions oh yeah stem from was on planning board you know about yeah know done that so Chris as far as lighting goes I see you have one flood light underneath the Eve I guess motion motion detector and it's to shine down on the driveway so when they come home they'll have some light and also you know if somebody's walking through the backyard she's going to know there's somebody there so obviously my next question nothing angled towards the neighbor no no they' be they'll be on the driveway okay I know the engineer already testified the old leaders are going to pitch towards right the opposite side yes Mr GRL you indicated that we no habitability and you heard a few concerns of the board would the applicant stipulate to a condition that there won't be any Plumbing or Heating in that accessory structure garage Bas it's it's not even in just the condition of the approval the advantage of detached garage you don't have to insulate it you know you don't have to sheetrock it you know just save money on a detach garage the garage is going to be finished simar to the house yes the same sighting same same uh roofing material and the siding of the entire house s yeah yes is it gonna be plat board or vinyl vinyl plat board the actual yeah in right yeah the electrical service to the garage is an overhead or an underground underground it's it's shown on on my side on ground the existing brick work is remaining excuse me the existing brick work is remaining yes discussions of painting it have taken place but no other lighting just a simple light by the St St in the back for the rear addition nothing yeah again no floods that are going to be coach lamps by the by The Doors it' be one by the uh the Personnel door to the side of the garage and one by one by the the door to the mud entry no not no light solution no C no board members questions for Mr Ral I'd like to know how how long it took you to write all those notes I gotta tell you persist this I haven't seen this godess I am a dinosaur I admit it I draw by hand on my l w and uh yeah it takes a little while wow bless um all right any other comments from so maybe at the pleas to being obvious here I'm looking at the memo from packet and you kind of pointed out the right side was the issue we really haven't spoken about today it's a halfy foot and that was a halfy foot now it's four outli that the Crux of the variants is that what we're talking about because I we haven't discussed this I guess what I'm asking and the house was built it was half foot out of it was non-compliant nonm understood understood but it's getting worse I guess no it's not well if you look at this it shows you what's the area that's cro relative to the size of the new house getting worse I'm more out of I read corre G if you start with the BN is going down yeah so we're so the is going down we're less non-compliant that's what the memo that's not what the memo say comparing it to he's comparing to to no barn and what's the right review well the bar no longer exists so I don't think technically you get credit technically the roast building area is going to be more with Gage it's a question whether it's glass half empty or glass half timing is everything my thought there's no I mean there's no construction proposed on the right side of located there's building area being added to the L that's what we're he to talk about the side yard requirement in 1960 when it was built was 15 ft and it was in violation then in 1999 the enhanced side yard requirements were adopted partially my fault I was chairman of the planning board at the time uh the side requ requirement for this house went through 2.68 ft now we're at 1951 ft requirement so G here here and down here back Mr chairman please if I could offer some comment the real reason you would look at these sort of enhanced sidey guard requirements is that if the mass of the structure getting bigger is it impacting the neighbors as a result of the sidey Guard setback um this instance the way I see it just to offer my comment on this is the way they're adding the addition to the back of the building the garage also is conforming it's the spirit of the criteria is such that are you adding more mass closer to the neighbors and I'm not sure that's the case here um based on that so I think I would offer that to the board for discussion and thought I agree I have a question for the engineer is is there um an opportunity on the left side as the driveway goes to the rear to move that left side driveway tight tighten it up the left side of the house just to create a a larger buffer for place answer is yes iend well resist because there turn around in the back uh you know 35 feet even by 35 feet when you back out of the garage and then that that section where the new addition is coming forward to the front left of the garage if if that driveway could be slid tighter to the side of the current garage there's great buffer and opportunity for some trees yes even running it right next to the building without even a buffer there I mean yeah I think you need a little buffer to the building but bottom line is it shows we have some room slide that driveway over okay but there would be some do you know what that minimum Dimension could be five feet off the neighboring proper l or a five foot of planter definitely yeah it' be good if you can get close to that with that type of tree because then they give you the room for the trees to grow we raised ear Green Giant will get to 60 feet tall as well as about 40 feet wide that's why they call a green giant but it does allow for that screening and it is the system you could PL Mount Laurels or some type of Holly M Laurel you could keep a mount L tight and tall and it won't impact as much as a green giant correct and or the uh Japanese pis as well oh sorry the tightest point that I see here is where the 175 if we're all talking in the in the same area here we're even some ornamental grasses the 17 the 17th I think what we're all focusing on is like right here and that's see I've got a 175 from the property line to the corner of the home right if I'm reading that right yes so if you shift everything over I don't know what you not have this dimensionalized unless it's on another plan the dimension between the side of the driveway side of the proposed driveway and the corner of the homeall right here we have 17 and half ft to the property line the property line yes sir that we we have to get past the part of the house understood go back with the transition dri don't want to be too close close to the corner of the house because you can clip the corner easily and that's where the electric meter is too and you don't be smacking into that the electric met yeah you may be able to just work with the Angles and the curb yeah you know make we have a little bit more room right here and then it Narrows down so I believe this is the critical area here where we get Shi to work this curve sh the driveway two feet right two feet that's a demension you think commit to two more okay A lot of the testimony and comments I think you know few items that I had included in my my memorandum B address and explain initially our primary concern was you run off potentially from there's a couple on the left side and then right now they hit the ground if the is going to be installed there put sheet across the driveway property but the roof runoff is being picked up by the down spouts and then tied into the seage pit and one thing that we do like is the fact that the secet fit is going to be entally located on their property versus being put right on property line you know the great you could have proper we did get the drainage calculations that indicate that the piton size for the increased imperious area we also suggest that they consider the tributary area to the sewi pit um so that the SE pit can can handle the runoff from the entire area to avoid overloading the SE pit and creating a p situation backyard the code doesn't require that but that's a suggestion recommend to the applicant at the and uh based on our initial review the plan the primary concern was seeing the flood light on the r yeah I think most of our comments um were addressed either through testimony or um have been addressed with various notes that like I have to ask this again and I I raised it briefly before but um a 1% swell we're okay with that is 1% acceptable given where yeah I mean it's a relatively flat piece of property I mean I would prefer to see it I I would prefer to see the SE it fit centy located and get the water from the center of the site versus trying to increase the slope of the driveway and and not being have to see there you would propose if I'm understanding what you're saying you would propose moving it more no I'm I'm I'm satisfied with oh you're satisfied where it is where where it's located and and you know 1% will will work okay that's that's what I want to I would prefer to see the seage pit where it's proposed at 1% grade versus moving the seepage pit closer to the property line and increasing the r understood okay okay board members questions for Mr GR no okay I am now going to open it up to the public for questions to this witness only first respond what you just heard would anybody care to come up please state your name address please this for Chris I'm Bruce Davis 22 mson Street we were back where the barn was and uh I would say thankfully the Barn's down and um and I I don't I I say that really sadly because that was a beautiful building at one time really well um but as the AOS know it was beginning to collapse pieces were falling off all of them it was it was really it was a danger anyhow my question had to do with trees and um if any trees and that's why I thought I'm not sure if this was t-o or Chris's as far as I know no trees okay because we're putting the new garage where the barn was right so there's no trees there and there no trees between the house and that location I was just wondering if there was any intent that further because it for our yard it provides a nice shade there so you're not going to move any trees yeah plus that gives gives them some shielding from the senior housing yeah with the new development yes thank you okay so further stating there are no trees being removed from the property as kind of taking what we just heard it do okay right except for that one sapling that's underneath the all right maybe say anything about this okay uh anybody else in the public please okay bringing it back to the board any further questions for uh for Mr okay yes all right board members General discussion on this and then we'll open it up to the public for General comments the only the only question I have Lauren I'm really I'm not trying to give you one of the things that that I take a lot of pride in when I sit up here is you know looking at the property objectively and thinking about the town in general and I would really like you to consider if you could just narrow out that driveway in the front what I don't want is to make it look like to the neighbor that people can just you know take grass and make their front yard a parking area so you would consider that just narrowing the yeah so so we have it wide now because the garage is going to just narrow it and continue the driveway yeah just cut that out I would point out amount of asphalt they have an asphalt um driveway walkway whatever you want to call it that L is 5et along the front of the house yeah that's already eliminated these PL what's show here is less sending as exist okay question of the ash okay okay that's yeah so my my statement stands I would like you to consider that but just not to give the impression that we have front yard parking in front of our house and Al you me elimin you want to point anything out temporary I don't want to get canc that's what again you're you're talking right in here yeah just that little area just that area right dition want eliminate I know it seems like minor but just aesthetically for the neighborhood that would maketing all the time go ahead look of a 26 foot curve cut going to a 26 feet small loud it's 23 yeah so can you Dimension it at its broadest point and then we can figure out how much we can bring it in from here from here that4 at the sidewalk the sidewalk 262 at the prop line the curve cut out 26 look a little awward 26 wide curve cut to narrower D but that's you know again whatever can be considered whatever can be done I'm not looking for you to to do extra stuff and I just want to make sure the Aesthetics of the neighborhood and you know we don't create a situation that people in town think they could just eliminate grass and park cars in the front of still have more grass in the front than she has now there number one number two if we reduce the size of the curb cut we need a Road opening permit that's another right major expense how much is that about I think if you took that hard 90 and softened it and making it a radius it probably achieve it right in here just was more soft just something just soften the we can make yeah just we can make it a radius it's I'm might draw a line of the sand I'm just asking to consider doing something it we just soften it and not make it look yeah look at the end of the day if you have somebody coming and and visiting okay they'll still be able to park there they'll be able to park in here okay the concern is that this essentially leaves a car spot here at any given time day night whatever at any okay I I mean you know testimony is it would be something possibly during the day you all that okay I get it okay I get it however if if this was more sof ined here that if you did have a visitor and I think there was also testimony that said that um if your mother had somebody come in and because of the way this the primary entrance you anticipate being towards the rear there's really nothing in here okay and I think the board would would be more amiable if this was softened and not made as almost a two- par right a two Park parking area you may like you said it's less to Shel it's less to Shel yeah I think that's where I think that's where you know more concerned about the look than I am my and then with you know with the testimony being in that that the driveway being shifted over to the right a little closer to the home so that more planking can in to help Shield from the from the neighbors I think that's where this board is is is moving to board members have I properly spoken that have I properly raised that okay your mother's okay I'm gonna open it up to to the public for comments unless the board members have anything else for now okay all right at this particular point the this particular point of this application uh we invite anybody who wants to make comments come up state your name your address and general comments that we are g i we'll swear you in all right and come on up okay now y okay I still hang on a second now we've got to go through the whole we you already spoke yes but she was not swearing it but if you could for the record State and spell your name again your property address and then we will swear you in okay I'm still Leonor Lind l i n d r the last name first name e l e a n o r a I live at 193 is West Allendale Avenue you want to mind raising your right hand please you swear the testimony you're about to provide is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do thank you um thank you everyone and and I want to have a a good relationship with my neighbor so I'm actually I'm actually very happy that some changes will be made uh to this property you know for your sfe and for mine um it is true thank you for speaking about it existed that it was a two-car with only a onecar garage it it doesn't look right the way it is now so I must say that I'm really happy that it's it's going to actually look better um and thank you yes that ASA to me is goinging down there so to have a one car garage which you have in the front that'll be your home right that that would normally look like you you come in and then you go to your driveway instead of having oh this extra spot there that can and again the entr is in the B which is and that's where I would think friends would go in because that's so I agree right now it doesn't look good so you could say well it does it looks now that's the problem but it was a problem then I don't know why it passed at that point because it's not really correct there's and you know the the front of the house is you know very plain and you see a broken up driveway so I'm sure have still little much um I would also appreciate being the neighbor and the barn and G on we're glad because it was a difficult thing you know to upkeep well it was falling apart um plus we have vultures and we always got our dogs to be carried away by the vultures and all that we love looking at it but you know everything you know much go but now our whole yard is this huge open and I can you know even see the the school I can see the housing over there and it's just like you feel like there you lost your privacy and the one thing about alen Dale I've always loved and you prob love too is that it's a little bit of that country VI it's a little quieter it's a little more spacious and natural um so I would like to continue enjoying that myself and whoever would purchases my home as well so um if it could be I would appreciate if you did have some kind of those tall trees not the Giants because they're really they look like huge never Dr but maybe those you know narrow kind that that go down again you're G the light is going to be shining in the back I mean the kids going to play there's again a lot of there's a twocc car right plus a turnaround so it's it's it's a lot of concrete you know that we're looking at so if there was a bumper and I don't mind going records saying I wouldn't mind if we worked along with it you know our fence is CL coming down and but it's just so close and so I appreciate and I'm I'm here to say Happy Together on so thank you for trying andk you for listening thank you for next toce thanks com yeah so would you be okay working with them this is tough to Fashion as a condition of the approval we already are establishing some Landscaping buffer by moving a driveway um but would you be open to working reasonably with your neighbor on more enhanced screening as may be appropriate I have to check with my mother sheown it yeah yeah okay yeah would that would that work neighbor to neighbor we have to go up and make it beautiful for both of us you know we're not there because they'll come a point where the board's purview ends when they go through their compliance If This Were voted on and approved they would have to meet the conditions of the approval they'd have to make the modifications that were agreed to tonight but beyond that neighbor to neighbor at that point it's private party to private party and you folks would be willing to work together that would be okay with you and you miss Kino okay okay y we'll make we'll make a find that becomes part of the the resolution yeah okay all right so we good all right thank you yes sir please and again come on up the whole thing again please Bruce Davis 22 M you mind raising your right hand Mr Davis you swear or affirm tell the truth and hold truth nothing but the truth I do please sir got a simple one I would just like to have that line talking about Green some kind of screening there just to be extended down to the garage follow the line down one of the things we have from our backyard right now is just view of your backyard you look at us we just give just extend it down that number distance from the front corner of the garage of the home existing garage the home in the front corner of garage is 85 ft that this is I believe we're talking about yes uh so there's a giant green AR every six ft you know do the ma it's 12 to 14 green Giants techically you get five Footers expression the first year they sleep then they creep the third year they leak but it does take three years to establish and you know so we have realistic expectations here it's not going to be R right the beginning planted [Music] noral well I think my mother wants to speak abolutely we'll have to swear you in ma'am for the record if you wouldn't mind so can you please state your name my name is Emma aino and you live at the subject property the application property is that correct doesn't live with you not not yet she will you will be living at this property are you one can you raise your right hand ma'am so we can swear you in thank you do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to provide is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth thank you I regarding this planting that they are talking about I want to clarify with them or you or to the engineer this is between the her property and my property correct yes on your prop on first side yes okay now from the from the street or only from the fence with discussed but I believe been discussed is from the front corner of the garage on the existing home to the front corner of the newage in the back distance pretty long why am I obligated to do that for their privacy there's no privacy right now why what for being discussed question you consider that but I will not consider because you know Landscaping is in the thousands now very expensive and for me to be obligated said to do that in a 6 months to now everything even now everything is so expensive but my my point is why am I obligated what is the answer of the neighbor it would be nice to see them it will be night we will be friends with that plant we will not be seeing each other we will be like strangers which should not be and there's no plants there is no nothing there we can see there beautiful garden so well one moment misser so so the recommendation of the board M Kino is to alleviate some of the intensifications on this sidey guard with the driveway enhancements by adding some natural screening and buffering with these trees that was some of the suggestions discussed earlier by the board if you're not amendable to those conditions that are recommended the board will factor that in to their deliberation and their vote um but but you've heard the board's recommendations on that and then you've heard both of your neighbors recommendations so you certainly do not have to amend your application to say you concede to that and you're proposing it but that will possibly factor into the board's vote relative to you know whether or not it's a mitigating factor of the deviations you're here because you have variance relief because this is not a fully conforming proposal and the board is allowed to impose conditions which have a Nexus a connection to mitigate the relief that you're seeking and the discussion has been enhancing the buffer along that area where there's going to be a quite long driveway that's right up against the property line going back back to the new um accessory structure garage so that's a discussion and your neighbors clearly have sought it made that request the board factor that into their consideration as well so you don't have to do it you don't have to agree to it but the board can certainly factor that into their decision shortly but once you approve or con or in consideration you said I'm not obligated to follow that no this evening you don't have to this evening you don't have to agree that you're willing to do that but but what comes with that is the board's reaction and their consideration of a vote as to whether or not the proofs are met to justify the variant relief sought so it's it's a mitigating factor it's part of the board's consideration and rightful consideration and you've heard two different members of the public here this evening asking for that as what they think would be an appropriate mitigating factor for them you've also heard the board indicate that they think that that might be a good idea as well in addition to tightening up that driveway up at the front near the street side so um it's your application to prosecute it's up to you whether or not you would agree to those conditions but that's what's been put before you this evening I do understand that part now let me ask this question maybe it's not proper now but if I ask a landscaper to put whatever plant will grow to 5 ft or whatever and I will start saying the uh the the landscaper put a half a foot of plant how long will it grow will will that satisfy the well I I think that if we get to the point in the discussion where you and your daughter are agreeable to planting I think the board is going to need some context and we're going to have to confirm what type of species you intend to plant there and what the minimum plant height is that would be a standard condition so we would have to agree that we're talking about Green Giant Arbor viy so far so let's say it's an arbor viy who would say arbores are required at X foot intervals your engineer said perhaps six or eight foot intervals from here to there it' be Dimension from possibly that 17 and a half foot dimension on the site plan back to the garage let's say this is for example at a minimum planting height of six feet so it would be very specific as to what you have to plant and where if the board moved in that direction okay you folks can certainly talk about that if you want for a few moments I'm sure the board will give you a minute or two to think about that if you like but that that's that's what I'm hearing this evening okay we play [Music] I I'm sorry I'm sorry it's okay go ahead yes consensus after the discussion is that we have no problem with the approval stipulating that we will plant you know five to six foot arbores starting from starting from front front left edge of the current house to the front left House of the garage to be built at 8 feet on the plan would Beed to indate that I I was just offering and reiterate whether or not we're talking about four foot off of the property land right the uh no we the driveway we only have fouret to driveway I was saying the same thing I that's what I was trying to say you you'll have minimally four feet Yes in that area okay and I would just point out will come up later these trees will overhang the neighbor property at some time in the of future so that's underst I think they said they were okay with that yeah one that the they don't there are some that are tighter it doesn't have to be they have to be deer tolerant that's the problem so if you get a multi- arbites those are the ones you drive around and the deer eat from the bottom all the way to about halfway the green Giants they don't eat or a Mount Laurel or by Burnham something you don't I I don't I think they should pick something that's gonna work for both of them it doesn't necessarily have to be green Giants but I think something that doesn't lose its foliage in the winter there's a lot of options Larry is it possible to put language in resolution just leaves it somewhat vague it's gonna be conversation and agreement between the neighbors agreement by the engineer to be determined at a later date we'll say from of Drive did you say the plant or the tree that we are going to put is to be approved by the neighbor well I understand that there are different plants that could do this you know but I don't think it's a good you know they're two parties there's no one to break the time you know you know I don't think the board wants us coming back here to say okay you know we can't agree on a plan you don't want to do that that's a ridiculous but before before I plant a I get a landscaper put this plant but we have to get the approval of the neighbors that how it is I'm trying I'm stay and Mike why don't you two gents land on the proper species and we leave it there this way there's nothing hanging out there for the two neighbors to possibly disagree on can I just see the plan real quickly I just want to see what the exposure is if it's full sun then Le and Cyprus might be a good choice as well as long as it's not too exposed because if they're exposed then they can be damaged in the Le um pretty pretty open right Northern SP the morning sun okay Morning Sun and midday Sun the gre gre Giants are safe back they are it's a very good buffer uh it it really takes a very long time for them to get to their maximum 40 to 60 week and and most important their deer resistance the the emerald green arbes which are more colonal de that's de for deer yeah yeah what I would offer is the leand Cyprus the leand Cyprus also is deer col you could plant those I think get sense there's conern here GRE Johns are readily available good bang for the buck I can't speak the Cyprus but I suspect there another alternative that's okay with the nebor either or can you do either you could do either or yeah give those two choices and go there you go they're both R [Music] though all right so that will be a [Music] stipulation we would stipulate yeah that's fine either of the two yeah that's fine I'm just showing what it looks like I don't I don't know I I'm not a landscaper I don't know it's a christmase yeah than all right um all right is there any all right so we got finish the com any comments from anybody else in the uh in the audience please excuse me chairman did they decide on a type of PL that didn't hear that I think be an option there's two options Leeland can you spell that l e y l a n d and then Cypress C Y P R thank you sorry okay that no that's the first one and the other one is Green Giant Arbor thanks okay yeah all right so we have that settled all right one more time anybody any on okay seeing n bring it back to the board board members any question on any testimony any comments etc etc given what we've all heard no no I'm satisfied everything is okay so next is to get a motion for approval or you can deliberate further or a motion that's right okay I don't see any any doesn't sound like anybody wants to deliberate anymore so a motion for um for this request uh with all the stipulations that that uh Mr Kelly will put in uh to this that we've all heard tonight um do I have a motion I'll make a motion um with the conditions of realigning the driveway to uh achieve the four feet soften the curve um with with all the stipulations as well as the landscape upper I make a motion to approve then I'll it any discussion okay Linda Please Mr Callie we have 10 voting members two of them are alternates nine are eligible to vote nine yes Vice chairwoman Bergen yes board member warala yes board member Petrino yes board member AO yes council member delicio yes board member D yes chairman too yes mayor wasinski yes and utler yes okay so Mr Kino we we're going to prepare a resolution of approval we'll circulate that drift it'll be adopted at the next meeting of the board on February 12 you don't need to be here at that meeting you certainly can if you would like but it's it's a formality the adoption of that approval um you'll have to look to resolution compliance there are some plan changes your professionals are going to have to make based upon your approval tonight if and when you're ready to submit the for building permits there any releases of them are going to have to wait and postate that resolution released I don't think he'd be there in 30 days anyway at this point but building permits won't be released until after the resolution is adopted which will be at the next meeting which is anticipated to be 2:12 okay thank you thank you all right by all right thank you good don't worry we will make it work1 you'll be good friend oh yeah excuse ladies gentlemen okay please all right um next on the agenda is any other com m other comments here micophone okay yeah thank you seeing none I'm bringing it back to the board uh any other business I know we're you know we're getting a little late here anything going on there you would like to comment on no okay any anything keep up the good work my friend keep up the good work okay everybody Mr chair yes sir I just want to clarify since I'm sort of running um all the when we redo our plans this is really agreement all our zoning data is now going to be done as it exists now and not without any cons consideration of bar being there having been there correct no it's all as of now okay thank you it's all as of now all right thank you thank you okay again uh any other comments I just wantan to I just want to remind everybody February Monday February 12th no meeting on the 14th and I also want to say thank you to everybody for being here tonight really appreciate all the input and motion to adjourn please don't move thank you sir second all in favor all right all right thank you very much have a wonderful month