this hi alra hello are H hello hello [Music] hello so we have two people that we know aren't coming so hopefully everyone else will show up Rob is in the house hi Rob hey Rob howdy hey Rob I think we're just waiting for Grover uh gustan will not be joining us this evening and Paul will not be joining us this evening so we need Grover in order to have a quorum oh and here's Grover and there's Grover hi Grover oops hello hi Grover so um we are going to go ahead and open the meeting um I just want to inform you that Paul will not be able to be joining us this evening nor Guston but we do have a quorum so we will go ahead it is 7:02 and we will go ahead and start the meeting so welcome everyone to the amoris municipal affordable housing trust meeting of uh May 9th 2024 um with first we're going to approve the April 11th 2024 minutes um so I'm going to go ahead and open it up for any additions Corrections omissions and you have a beautiful cat Grover all right so it sounds as if uh we can go ahead and um accept the minuts of April 11 2024 um just to note uh that Greg did revise the minutes of March 14th uh per the conversation we had last time uh and he made the edits and um sent them out to everyone we had already voted on them with the edits so we don't need to vote on them all right so let me see if Michelle Miller is with us she is um Greg can you bring her in or her voice in welcome Michelle hi everyone thank you so much for having me good to see you all good to see you too and thank you so much for joining us so Michelle what was going to be joined by professor H shabas but uh they are tag teaming other meetings so Michelle is going to be talking to us about the African Heritage reparation assembly report and how our work intersects with some of their recommendations so Michelle you have the floor excellent thank you and uh you know I'm so appreciative that you've invited us to speak and be here with you and have an opportunity to collaborate and or think about ways that we can collaborate and Dr shabaz does send his regrets that he couldn't be here so I wanted to make sure I said that um so the report I'm not sure if folks had a chance to take a look at ahra's final report um if you have then you saw that one of our three funding priorities is affordable housing and that came out of a pretty uh deep consultative process that we went through with the community so um we had a survey that over 500 folks uh responded to we did large and small listening sessions and affordable housing was really something that came up again and again and um the I think we heard a lot while we were talking to folks that you know the work that you're all doing is just phenomenal and I had a chance to um look a little bit more uh more closely at what your initiatives are and there's also just like with any of um these Municipal efforts a a sort of a lack of funding or not there's never enough funding um and I've seen that you all have done um great work in trying to trying to find uh different possibilities for um increasing your funding and so I you know one of the questions that Dr shabbaz and I talked about asking this group is um what capabilities do you have to um to use resources for home ownership opportunities as opposed to um affordable rental opportunities and if there's any any kind of limitations or um expectations in that regard and the reason I ask that and we ask that is because we're hoping that at least um through the reparations work we'll be able to provide home ownership res you know resources that will benefit folks who are pursuing home ownership in the community um so if there's a way for us to synergize and collaborate around on that um that's one idea that we have and we're also just really open to what thoughts you had after reading the report and and the recommendation that we made I'm going to go ahead and open it up for anyone to respond to that and I'm sorry I'm echoing okay so I don't see anyone responding so I'll go ahead and start um so um as part of our charge um home ownership is part of our charge um affordable housing uh can be um you know providing rental subsidies it can be uh development of um you know Apartments it can be the development of affordable home ownership God bless you algra uh and it could be um you know paying down um uh costs of mortgages it can be you know working with the Amherst um Community Land Trust so um I it really depends on the funds also in terms of CPA around limitations um CPA we have CPA funds which is the majority of our funds right at this point in time uh and so we can only use our CPA funding uh within the limitations of you know the CPA regulations um we are in the process right now of doing uh a strategic plan or creating priorities um in terms and this is why we thought it was really important to have this conversation with you uh is that you know wanting to hear you know uh I've read the report others have you know read the report or have had links to the report um a while back and um I also was able to see the presentation to Town Council um and so uh I think you know for us it was really very important to uh think about you know what is it that you know um the report recommended and we in terms of how we're thinking about our uh priorities and how to utilize um our uh resources that include both funding as well as our advocacy resources uh and how to work also very closely with other groups that are looking to support affordable housing um I'm going to stop there right now um there was something else I'm going to say but um I'm going to just leave it right now uh and see if anybody else has uh anything to add Carol I I just should say that I mean everything Erica said ditto ditto sort of but also there's certainly nothing in what we are asked to do and what our mission is that means that we can't support home ownership we totally would like to support home ownership and do when we can find ways to do that clearly also supporting um affordable rentals is important but but yeah we look for ways to try to support affordable home ownership and have recently helped one person get into a house through the the community land trust and have uh been one of the funders maybe to be yet more of a funer of the home ownership duplex project over on ball Wayne yes yes yes Carol we we are very interested in also supporting that project so I already see a a possibility where we could collaborate on that that's great idea yeah Greg you wanted to um yeah I was just going to harp uh follow up on the ball Lane as well and and kind of present a informal opportunity for collaboration which is in marketing and Outreach and and communication around those homes um um there will be an extensive uh you know what we call an affirmative marketing plan um you know to to seek um you know applicants for a lottery to to occupy those homes what's different about it is because it's home ownership there's uh mortgage qualification steps and so forth so the the community outreach engagement before occupancy is quite extensive um you know to the degree that there's sort of informal networks or communication channels tied um to uh the work you've been doing Michelle U you know with the reparations group um sort of when those Communications um from that developer come out um it can be really valuable I think and and support what you're doing um to to you know to retweet you know send any list you have Etc uh those um those invitations to apply um because I think you know the the program that those homes are getting built with is expressly aimed at um sort of rebalancing the home ownership uh equation um to accommodate you know communities that have been marginalized in the past so uh that's right up the alley but it's on all of us to make sure we spread the word widely um and make sure you know those who can most benefit uh hear about it and are able to throw their hats in the ring absolutely Greg yes one other thing that pops into my head is that uh especially with home ownership it isn't it's start now don't wait until it's time to apply because there are programs in place to help people do the things they need to do to get their um their finances in order for a while before the application process in order to be ready to be able to qualify for the mortgage I think there's some of those programs that may be just starting now I know that Valley is planning to a announce those things like a year or something before application so it's not too soon to to work on finding people to um get involved in those Pro those programs Yeah we actually had uh Jessica Allen uh I think at our last meeting and they have an Outreach coordinator who's already starting to do the work um and uh there were a couple of groups we had mentioned and uh they really really want to have contact so what Carol and Greg is saying is really very important is that we know that um that it takes time to get your finances in order your papers in order uh and so they want to start preparing right now they want to start getting um information out there seeing if they can get people into these types of you know um sessions that can help them prepare um 2028 seems like it's you know far away it's around the corner when it comes to finances and if you don't have yes and if you don't have you know the ability to do closing costs or you know even the time or the paperwork Etc so they they are they're gearing up right now so I don't know if you have connection to Jessica Allen but if not I can you know connect you to um because she was asking for organizations that she can contact in terms of the bipod Community um and so they really really want to start the work now yeah I had I had a chance to talk to her a couple times about that um the last time I spoke with her though was on site over there probably close to a year ago so I I I will absolutely reach out to her I think that um that's an excellent um you know strategy for for us uh the ah and the affordable housing to come together and um provide any kind of opportunities that like I I can imagine us you know hosting um you know an informational session uh you know sponsored sort of by both of our groups um but I will definitely speak with with them and and see where they're at with all of that and if if you um Erica if you want to start an email that we could kind of both be on the same thread or I'd also be happy to do that if it's easier for you um and we can okay that would be amazing and then we can get that conversation going um because I think Carol's absolutely right that uh it's going you know it was clear from Jessica that it was going to take time for folks to do the necessary requirements to be approved for this um for this opportunity absolutely I uh after her last presentation I sent her some context that I had in terms of the Native American Community here in western Mass so I will definitely um do an email this evening after our meeting um and alleger wants to jump in um I was just thinking and I can't find her email right now but I was thinking it might be helpful to just have the possibility for community outreach at Comm Community Based events like for example there's the old vers Young basketball tournament coming up and that's at mil river which is also in the neighborhood of where the development will be think there's also the um the the Powell is coming up at the high school so those could be um like natural places where the community gathers that it might be helpful to have a um a table as well as I think the town is having the aapi um Heritage Month celebration and there's going to be an event around juneth I'm not sure if it will actually be on juneth um but then the black Business Association of ammer is also holding a cookout at mil River on the 19th of June from like two to six so those are all good places to plug in um and I was also just thinking um perhaps if the timing so aligns and the new Barry Roberts Building is built by the time the valy homes can be built and some of that money is available perhaps we could earmark some of that as down payment assistance um since it looks like arpa might be not on the table at that point um so that could be a concrete way where we could provide some funding for the families to get into the units I think those are all excellent ideas and probably Jessica is not aware of all of those upcoming events where we could really have a campaign I mean when you just named to them all I'm thinking that's that's a whole campaign right there so I would be happy to support that in any way um and and just sort of Allegra along the lines of uh what said about down payment assistance one of the kind of priorities I think from our perspective as a committee is uh well so just so you know where where things stand we've been waiting for a legal opinion to come back from the town's attorney for many months um and I recognize that it's the first legal opinion in the state of Massachusetts regarding reparations local reparations so it's taking some time they're being thought about it um but it's expected back in the next couple weeks is my understanding and once we have that the idea is then that a some kind of successor body would be um put together to begin um you know working on the recommendations but I you know just in kind of being out there and seeing what other like what Evon and and their process and their Journey it's so important for us to get that first benefit out um so that the community one can uh have faith that this is not just another you know a symbolic gesture and that there is money that is available for benefits to be made so I can't think of a better project really um within the context of what we got from our consultative process that's upcoming than this ball LAN um and our funds are probably a little bit different than yours our funds require a two3 vote of the Town Council to be approved so we need initiatives that come before the council that um will speak to the council and and what they're working on so I just wanted to kind of let you all know where things stand from from you know where we're at and um and so that we do have some limitations but hopefully uh we'll we'll get the ball rolling here soon once that legal opinion comes back I think that'll be very very important um Grover you have your hand up go ahead yeah Michelle can you clarify quickly what the legal opinion is waiting for is it about the formation of of an ongoing body or is it about recipients of reparations who can they can be in those kinds of terms that's a great question it's I think it's going to respond to the um the report um in all of the aspects of the report we did um have some very specific questions but the initial legal opinion that we got uh goodness this is a couple years ago now and it is in in the appendix of the report so you could take a look at that that really addressed the anti-aid amendment and um the public purpose rule in the state of Massachusetts which says that you can't direct Municipal funds toward a particular racial group or toward particular groups um and so there were some ways that we could deal with that one of the ways was to um for ammer to um essentially put a resolution forward or put something forward that says that uh the town of Amis believes that reparations are a public purpose and then it would go through a process um the state the legislature process to get um like a a special um oh my goodness the name is like it's it's out of my head for this moment but basically um we' get a like a home rule um that would say that in ammer we say that reparations is a public purpose and therefore Municipal funds can be used toward um you know toward these initiatives other ways to do it are to funnel the money through non-profit organizations that are already in existence um that would have similar goals so I think what's going to come back is really to say how can we direct these benefits legally um and and uh what what are our what are our options um and it will be interesting because in Evanston for example they're also a home R State and um they're they're directing cash B cash benefits they're directing individual cash benefits to people and um so you know whether they're going to get uh legal push back on that is yet to be seen but we're sort of watching and waiting how it it's going to work out great thank yeah that that was actually uh was sort of my uh incoherent comment that I was going to make that I sort of decided not to because I know we've raised um this here as part of a trust conversation too in terms of priority populations and um how we can um direct our funds to Priority populations we're told because of the housing the fair housing act that there might be challenges to that so I think this would be very helpful to um have uh a legal ruling to see how you know this plays out um I think if I'm correct that uh the funding we may get uh via L and payment of affordable uh apartments that may not have those restrictions but we may have to figure that out as well yeah I think all housing all housing has race blind restrictions right so then it's the complicated formula like Valley is doing to determine that's my where the house yeah I it's not going to be simple it's like so many different things trying to make sure that everything is fair and they don't and they conflict with each other many times and so yeah uh but anyway we're working on doing what we can do also absolutely are you all still going to get be benefited by the um transfer the transfer fee that uh two of our counselors put forward previously if that gets approved by the state we will yeah we will be if there's a there's one that is a generic one that people in the state low income housing people and a whole Coalition of people are trying to put through if that one passes then we would be able to do a transfer fee that would just go to us that's the state one goes the difficulty with it is that the threshold for the transfer fee is such a high uh right now it requires houses to be sold for so much money that there aren't hardly any like that here because it's was made up in eastern Mass but they're trying get that amended and so if that gets amended and goes through which we hope then uh we would get all of the transfer fees the one that R2 uh R2 Council people put forward shares that money between the the town count the town's something or other fund and the council and I mean and the and the trust that's right that's right the capital Improvement fund yeah that's yes you're right right and so either of them will either of them will give us something either of them would be a a great would be a great Boon to to the trust and to the town absolutely absolutely yeah absolutely and I know that Dr shabaz would like to be in conversation um with this group especially once the successor body is put together um and even before then but um I think I'm you know this is going to be an ongoing conversation I think a first step right now though connecting with Jessica for the ball Lane and the informal um promotional uh collaboration is just a wonderful way to start um and and I would I would really love to to work with you all on that for sure and I know she she loves yeah sorry interrup yeah I was just yeah I just gonna confirm and just say that um Erica if you want to CC me on that I can help move that along and absolutely um both you and Carol LCC um yeah because I know um that was raised um in terms of all those different events alra you had raised that while Jessica was here and I think Greg you had or Nate had mentioned about the calendar on the website but I think the more we can get directly to her I actually sent her a link to the pawow in May uh yeah at the end of May it's at the end of May um so um the more we can get direct links the the better y so and we have a pretty extensive we have a mailing list of over 500 residents in ammer that we will use um you know as as as we can to get get the word out so um thank you for suggesting that as well Greg perfect I think that's great um and maybe um as Carol said um Valley CDC actually has amazing workshops uh even post buying a home what you should consider um which I actually took their pre- buing home Workshop which you know for first-time homeowner was just absolutely you know just informative but they have so many different ones um I can send them to you as well or if you want um Carol keeps a lists uh of all of the people who are interested uh in terms of our meetings and then we also share a lot of um those types of workshops that come across you know our emails so if you want to be put on that mailing list we can do that I would love that that would be great yes please um can if you you have my email Michelle somewhere I do of course email me whatever email you would like to have on that list and I'll make sure they get there that's great I will definitely do that thank you Carol sure thank you all right so action is I'm going to do an email after we meet this evening uh that's going to include um you Michelle and uh to Jessica Allen uh getting us all on the same page I will copy you Greg and Carol um and we will try to get as many contacts for them for their Outreach staff um she was pretty excited um she talked a little about the background of the Outreach staff and um some of the work that they are starting to get um going so we'll start with that and then we can have a further conversation about doing collaborative um information sessions with Jessica uh and Valley CDC as well um so and then you'll you'll get in touch with us about um you know an update on the legal um ruling as well as possibly maybe another conversation with you and Dr shabas absolutely as soon as we have that um we as soon as I have that I will send it all to you and yeah I think that would be a great time for us to get back together and have a conversation about it excellent well thank you so much um and I was just I'm sorry it took this long for us to get together but um really appreciate all the work you're doing and looking forward to working together we are so much looking forward to working as well with you uh and with the whatever group comes um out of uh the next tradition of a wonderful assembly that put together a really comprehensive um and very in-depth report um that gave a lot of history that you know for any of us who are new to amers which I'm not but it was just really amazing I actually shared it with colleagues and friends um especially people at UMass um who need to also have this history so thank you so very much for all thank you Erica in your doing oh well thank you and have a great rest of the evening and meeting and we'll talk to you soon all right thank you have a nice bye bye by good night good night okay so um we are now going to well let me just say are there any comments or any followup just want to give a few minutes if there's anything else that we should note okay all right so we're going to move um sorry for the change in the agenda but um uh Michelle had contacted us and wanted to um had informed us that Dr shabas couldn't make it because they're both going to uh coordinator meetings and so they're tag teaming who's going where and so she wanted to be on ASAP um so uh again if you haven't read the report um it's uh the link is on the um Amherst uh website and um they also have a presentation that they did to the Town Council uh I believe the presentation is also on the website um so I I would really take a look at that because it is very very informative about um the history past and present of Amherst and um Equity uh especially in terms of racial Equity okay so we're now going to move to the VFW project we're going to start first with Father Bill's um in main spring site visit that was very exciting I'm going to ask Greg to go ahead and start um uh maybe we can talk about who went and uh Greg actually put together a really informative document afterward just a summary so that's why I want him to go first because he probably has most of the uh Insight uh and then um I'll just follow with some of the things that I really thought was poignant um that links uh to the VFW project so go ahead Greg sure um so I guess this was two weeks ago now I think uh a delegation of folks from ammer um uh organized by Dave Zac including myself and Erica and Nate who's joined us as well tonight um and then uh some other staff members uh Building Commissioner Rob MOA Dave um uh and I'm probably forgetting one person on the staff side uh and then also um some team members from Craigs doors which is as most of you know our local shelter provider in ammer um and then a UMass architecture student actually uh who's been doing some cool work her uh some of her work is in your packet actually so we all went out um and um got more of a walk around and and uh and an information session than we really expected um but we went to go visit father bills and mainspring their um Housing Resource Center which is a new model that um that they're ruling out is now being replicated around the state um but that is a combination of shelter as well as some permanent Supportive Housing and then a lot of daytime Services all in one location um that's brand new they opened in the fall um so we got um kind of a walk around sort of learned about both some of the services that happened there uh you know from you know kind of some the specifics around how they offer shelter uh and then and how that connects to their permanent housing strategies as an organization they're a longstanding group that's been building up momentum for many decades in eastern Mass um so this is kind of a culmination of a much more modest beginning of the organization and took a long time to build to here uh but I'd say um some things that stand out were that the shelter plus housing model was really interesting um they raised a great deal private money um to support especially their shelter facility uh that will look a little bit different here uh you know when we try and pull something off um but maybe some some nuggets of wisdom in there for us um and then also just uh you know a really amazing space I thought um you know and you know both you know functional um and client centered uh and um you know and you know a really sort of inspiring jumping off place um for you know what we're going to try and pull off um you know a local version of um and and I guess the other thing I'll note too that I was personally very excited about is that we had everybody who came from Craigs doors um including uh Tim McCarthy who has joined you know this meeting several times um you know were uh you know really enthusiastic um and asking fantastic questions and planning lots of follow-ups with uh the the service provision team at at father bills um and really just uh kind of soaking it up uh a lot which I think is really promising for where we're going because we're going to need um um you know folks on the ground to um kind of be getting information from all directions including folks who've done it before um so yeah so there's a lot we know we could delve into the weeds um and um and maybe we'll do that a little bit when we get to you know a quick update about where where we're going here in town but maybe I'll stop there and and ask Erica if you want me to delve in anything else specifically or if you want to add anything um so one of the things I just want to say is that it is absolutely comprehensive from literally doing Outreach for individuals who are still out in the community that um are either unable to come in um in coming in in terms of their shelter uh they don't turn anybody away which was I thought was absolutely amazing um and so they do Outreach um they bring people in into the shelter uh the shelter I believe is over capacity but we got a tour of it was absolutely amazing and um you know uh Greg just used client centered uh I would also include trauma informed and I know Isabella used that in terms of her uh presentation what she put together but the the the the team that met with us they spent so much time with us and it was absolutely clear how focused they were on ensuring one safe safety but it was both physical as well as mental as well as sort of a spiritual safety for individuals as well as a whole Community there uh and that they were really focused on as much as they could to really get people into a safe space so if it was just connecting them um out in the community until they were able to come into the shelter keeping them in the shelter uh during the day um they couldn't stay in the dorms but they could stay in they have lots of programming to keep them there feeding them uh providing health care so that was another piece that they actually brought in a primary care center a satellite into the facility which was amazing uh they have mobile closets they you know they have all kinds of things it's just so comprehensive and thinking about the needs of the individuals and trying to meet them where they're at so it's um you know people do not have to be substance use free but they have to be able to take care of themselves and they have to be safe and then try and get them from shelter to permanent housing that was just really amazing um how comprehensive it is um I think it was a really high bar for all of us um the other piece they not only do they spend all this time with us um they also uh uh are giving us time as we think about the VFW project um they are absolutely available to us in Craigs door um Craigs door of course you know immediately got everybody's you know information because they want to continue that that relationship and conversation um but for us to is just a wonderful wonderful uh example of how comprehensive and deeply involved and engaged they are in terms of client centered trauma inform informed care and really meeting um individuals at where they're at and really respecting those individuals um it was just really amazing they had a raise $26 million um uh and 10 of that was fundraising the other uh 16 they were able to get I assume from from the state but it's a really high bar um and you know my my feeling is is that um that's just the beginning because you know creating the physical facility is just the beginning um the ability to maintain it and sustain it uh is really also um the conversation we had with them about you know how do you maintain your funding you know how do you you know get your food um you know it's just really amazing uh what they can teach us in in um thinking about uh the VFW project of course the DFW project is not going to be at that size it's not the land is not even that available and so some of the conversations we already had along the way was how do we maybe work with other organizations to provide services not necessarily at the site but um at you know maybe at the community health center or in other uh sites but to be able to um also have such comprehensive uh Services uh and thinking about you know how do we do that at this particular site that may not have as much space uh available to it so I think Nate you might want to jump in too just in terms of your experience um so I was able to drive in the car with Nate which was really wonderful and and Greg was not kind enough to pick me up for my house so I got to spend a little time with both of them which was really wonderful yeah hi everyone I think yeah I mean what's been covered um you know father bills is a you know their organizational chart you know was like 50 people deep uh they had been around for a long time I think that uh for ammer I think the important thing is you know what will work in our site so we have um someone that is working with us to get ideas Greg sent stuff through in the packet I think you know what what they found was that their administrative space was already too small when they started in terms of providing services and so the site in ammer you know isn't you know it's big but not that big and so I think what's important is you know what what's the right size for uh beds for shelter for what kind housing do we want what kind of day services do we have a space as Greg mentioned at one meeting that could be um shared space there for different providers to come to the site do we make use of the bang Center I think there's a lot to consider uh I think operations is really important as Erica mentioned um you know I yeah I you know you know they were doing a great job and it's amazing to see what they what they have but when you hear about how much work it it took and you know it it you know how much planning went in uh and fundraising and then operations what they do for services it's it's really comprehensive I think it's a really great thing for us to strive for um but I think you know we I'm not sure what we have in terms of you know what the town what we what the steps now for the town is okay um we'll come up with a concept idea for the site programming ideas and then at some point the town and the trust and others will really develop a request for proposal to seek it could be Vel oper could be someone to then take over this project and so you know currently we're in the phase of well what's the right size what are the services and then we kind of have to consider how involved is the town or what kind of parameters do we have in this request for proposal and so um you know I think our eyes are open now and you know there's other models and things to consider but funding is Big there's not a ton of funding for shelter construction so some of it is you know what you know what can we do there uh for housing what does the housing look like like I said you know is it um you know if it's not that many units is it you know eligible for tax credits and how do we fund something like that and so there's all these pieces and so uh we're hoping that we can work through some of this in the next few months and then get some ideas and and just keep it moving um yeah and M maybe I can just foreshadow a little bit Eric if that's okay if I just go ahead and talk about what's happening in ammer going forward at this point um so I think we announced I can't remember if we named them or not um uh at our last meeting but we are now contracted with narrowgate uh which is the Architecture Firm that um that designs a lot of affordable housing um and Community serving uh development uh they also uh were the Architects that designed uh the father Bill's location that we visited um so we're contracted with them uh for a short-term contract to do some um some initial visioning visioning and some Design Concepts you know to um to receive some initial public input um to inform an eventual RFP so what uh there's gonna be a few different pieces of that um uh both um sort of with public stakeholders and then with some more focused folks so we're uh trying to unfortunately weren't able to nail it down before our meeting tonight um but there's going to be a public stakeholder meeting um in early June so um either the first or the second week of June we'll have something uh which um you know which uh you know will welcome lots of different input lots of different voices to offer input into this um we're going to frame that uh and this is important and we hope we can get support from all you in this um you know that will be framed not as you know not not should but how really right we've as a town decided that we should do this and so this conversation is about how is the best way to do this um so that's what that input juncture will be um we're trying to organize something and and I again we're early still in the engagement so um the the edges are are rough still but my hope is and I've been in touch with Tim about this to organize something a little narrower and smaller uh focused exclusively on folks um who have utilized shelter services in Amis before um or perhaps are right now um to get their input into this process um so uh we have um some initial plans to u to make sure we Center um you know their opinions and their needs and their experiences uh in in how we inform this and then we're also going to make sure the flip side of this is also making sure that we um you know that the ideas and the initial sort of U Concepts you know we want to stretch ourselves at the same time we don't want to come up with something so um fantastic that it can't be funded right so the goal is also to make sure we get input from the folks um who know how to go deep in financing this kind of thing um so with that in mind we're probably going to do a stakeholder session um with folks from the development side who can kind of inform the you know questions like what Nate raised about tax credits how many units would it need to get tax credits um you know what are the you know the square footage splits that we should think about between um shelter and permanent Supportive Housing as a uh as as a funding obligation questions like that um our partners in the development Community are GNA be able to offer some input into that so that's going to be a really vital feedback that we need to gather up front so an eventual RFP is um you know is not such a you know a a threaded needle that it's impossible for anybody to respond to um and I think one of the things that the uh we we hope our our the products we get from narrowgate will be will you know be questions that probably remain unanswered that the town will have to address priorities that we'll have to um decide on as a town you know you know what's more important this or that is it is it vital to have Services okay is it vital enough that we should subtract for units perhaps the floor space might demand that you know so I think hopefully they're going to set us up with some of those questions rather than just um you know offer some some floor plants U you know uh or you know or some you know some visualizations so um so yeah so uh you know that the public side of that uh look out for information about an early June um public engagement effort um and um my hope is to get um lots of different voices but uh enthusiastic supportive voices and I would hope that uh we can count all of you in that regard so look out for a date uh hopefully within hopefully by the end of tomorrow but if not probably Monday we'll have a date uh on when that's gonna happen any [Music] questions comments the the only other thing that I want to say is uh which I think we all will advocate for one of the things that I heard from the staff over and over again was is make sure when things start getting designed that you have people who use the space looking at how the spaces are formed um both you know the the clients who are going to be in their ad client Advocates as well as those who are actually maybe staff there um because uh as Greg mentioned the administrative area got um very small very quickly they had other areas where it was so tight um and they just sort of grew right out of or it just didn't work or um it actually wasn't safe so um they really learned from that and they're doing a Brockton site uh and they are literally having staff kitchen staff look at the kitchen you know administrative staff look at administrative space Etc so um that is something that we have to keep on advocating for to make sure that happens so we actually have a h a workable space for those who are going to be uh using that space it was it was really a wonderful experience and um I can actually see once we get further on possibly doing another site visit to them or having them come here they were just absolutely phenomenal and generous absolutely generous in their time uh in helping us think through um how to do this so um maybe another trip to come yeah and might be helpful just end with noting too that there's also uh you know I don't know if they're the very first to do this perhaps they are in Mass but there are certainly not the last there's other um smaller communities that are also pursuing um and further along and building similar you know more modest size facilities you know I think um I'm aware of one that I think is um about to kick off Construction in Springfield um there's another one in h Greenfield one in attelboro and I'm sure a few more as well so possible we take a visit to one of those as well U you know as things progress great Point very great Point all right um well thank you um and uh Dave's not here but thanks to Dave uh it was really a wonderful experience and I know Craig's door also really enjoyed the collaborative uh Partnership of going together and thinking through this and uh is really looking forward to continuing that work Carol did you have anything you wanted to say I'm sorry I didn't get to go that's my only thing to say I had out of town guests and all kinds of things going on so I didn't get to go but I'm glad that you all went it was amazing it was pretty amazing okay um so as you see that we've had a little bit change in the agenda um I see that Laura Baker has joined us and and welcome Grace as well um so we did have Michelle um already talk about the African Heritage reparation assembly and now we've talked about the vhw um update and uh father Bill's site visit so we still have time so we're going to actually go ahead and talk about the bond bill um that was an item under other topics in June's meeting but we thought it was really important since especially we have a little bit of time before Shelly joins us and we talk about the Strategic plan um to think about um we actually had an invitation for from representative Dom asking us um to let her know what we think are priorities uh with regard to the bond Bill and um Greg sent um uh a flyer with regard to some of the priorities from Western um Mass Coalition uh and so we thought um you know uh Carol and I can write a letter and the Royal wi is usually Carol who writes it and I um review it um and just uh putting out what we think are priorities that we think our Representatives should push forward um and again I just want to thank representative Dom for being so much at the Forefront of uh pushing for affordable housing and seeing it as a social determin of Health uh that is so critical um so I just want to open it up to see if there's anything that you saw on that list um that you think should be priorities that we push forward I know I have two areas but I just figured I'd go ahead and open it up to you guys first well um I guess I my understanding was that we were going to ask at least the one thing that we were definitely going to ask was that a priority be um the the the tax the transfer fee thank you the transfer fee so we I think we know we want to do that is there anyone who doesn't think that that's the case I not have to spend a lot of time on that one because I think we already agreed about it so unless I hear something that says that's a bad idea suddenly is that's definitely what's G that will definitely be in the letter and if we can come to agreement and without taking too much time about it about something else that is in that list then uh we could do that so can I just ask a clarifying question about the tax or um just if there is any information on what that might look like um if it's not the million whatever it is listed as what the lower amount is yes thank you that is um oh I saw it I think it's formulated in some way that it's like changes with the town so it's something like the top x% of I I can't remember exactly but I think it was something that let it float so that in a town that had really a lot of high things it would be higher than in a town that didn't but I can't remember the language algra I'll see if I can find it somewhere I mean I I would definitely agree to language more like that than to set amount that doesn't necessarily reflect what our real estate market looks like yeah I'm pretty sure that it was some way that had it to be able to float but I I can't remember it than you try to find it again Greg did you want to say something yeah at one point and and so um right now it just it just has a million dollars you know per the basically the Healey Bill uh that um that they started with um the western Mass Coalition at first I think the original recommendation for adjustment they named I think 750,000 um at and then it tied like a float mechanism like Carol described the most recent recommendation that's in the packet that's the most recent Rex from the western Mass Coalition um just says make it more relevant to us basically and kind of puts it to the legislature to say you know yeah and I which I think is probably wise um replace it with a mechanism that will make the transfer be fee available to all communities amend Regional affordable housing commission fund language to allow rural communities to create such funds via intermunicipal agreements um so they're just saying make it more accessible to a broader set of the state um then naming a specific way how that should happen um which I think probably is a reflection of the best political estimation of what might be possible rather than prescribing a certain thing for the legislation to do they haven't changed much in the bill um since it's traveled through committees I'm not aware of if if anything got tweaked after it went through the bonding committee I don't think it did but um I'm looking I don't see anybody else so the other one that I thought again we don't have to spend a lot of time but I do think it's important to support the language around public housing it would seem to me that we have public housing across the state that is empty that needs to be filled so and anything we can get to get the public housing renovated and done um you know it just is so important that you know that public housing um or housing authorities um have the resources to ensure that people who are eligible can get the get into housing it just seems crazy that we have places that are open because they can't renovate them fast enough um and so that was just my thought was to possibly support as well I'd support that thank you Grover anybody else any or thank you alra all right so those were so I I would be inclined to write it saying we we hope that you will support all of these initiatives but in particular please support these two this one and this one um that sound good good to folks okay perfect and so I think that we can now I see that Shelly is here so um what Shelly has offered to do and which we are very grateful for Greg will BR bring her in the room any minute now you've seen the draft of the goals that the small group consisting of from us of Erica and Rob and I and um Shelly and um Nate and Greg have been there so we have some draft goals and I believe our hope for tonight is that we can agree on what the those goals are and then we will continue to work on what the strategies beneath the goals will be but sh is going to facilitate this part for us we have until about we have until maybe I don't know till 10 or till quarter of what time is it it's just 8 so tell a little after quarter of nine because we got a couple other things to do shelle's going to facilitate this so Eric and I can just be participants so Shelly welcome and it's all yours hi everyone nice to be here with you so do do folks have the goals in front of you from your packet yep great so um these are a few three goals that the the smaller subcommittee came up with and it was taking into account the conversation that we had back in I think it was February and then some additional comments were submitted by Grover and so it was thinking through um the different conversations and then coming up with three goals at this point that we wanted to go through and get some feedback from you on the possible strategies underneath them we are not proposing those strategies tonight that is that's not on the table the only point of having those possible strategies is just to add some clarity to what the goal the intent of the goal and what kinds of things would fall under these three goals to keep them separate but we're not going to be discussing those strategies tonight so it's just looking at the the the overall goals so I'm just going to start with the first one and read it and then ask for your feedback and then if the others on the subcommittee want to talk about the numbers that we derived at uh that we're presenting then please chime in on that I'll do a little bit of that but but you'll give better Clarity so the first is one focused on I guess I could say that we've also chatted about a possible proposed Niche for the trust to consider as you define your role in the community is to possibly really looking at your role as increasing the supply of affordable housing and ammer uh so I'll just say that overall and that that's just proposed that's not something that we're actually going to get into so much tonight but just to put that on the table so the first goal is a a Development Goal and that it just says to support the creation of 250 homes affordable to people earning below 100% of the area at meiting income over the next five years so we did have some discussion around the number how many units and um diff some kind of differing opinions but feeling that 250 given the size of your community given what's kind of uh what you see happening at this point that that felt like um a bit of a stretch but not too much that it felt like a a doable number um and then 100% of the area median income is I think that that's how your trust defines moderate income it right is that correct that it's up up to 100% so that's and then five years was just a number that we we chose that could be modified but what are folks um reactions at this point to this goal well I'll jump in and say that um you know it could be something like 80 units in two years and have it be a little bit more immediate um you know the housing production plan the town's comprehensive housing policy all said like 250 over five years and I feel like um I don't know five years maybe seems like a long time for people and then it doesn't you know it just just kind of sits there and so I know 80 and two might be hard but you know it's like maybe get a little pressure there and keep things moving um you know at least get a project started that that could happen I just think that the fiveyear Horizon is something that might seem a little distant do you think that strategies could get to that a little bit more um to put more spe to be more specific and to perhaps dig into a couple more immediate possibilities yeah maybe that's the way to go about it I just think that I think I guess my problem is with 250 is that it's been around a number of reports and it I would rather just put a different number okay 225 280 I don't know something it's just it seems like oh here's 250 again it's like well why is it it's a half of 1% of what you know the you know the state says in the you know in the regulations but let's come up with something that you know might be either more feasible or something so you know yep other thoughts on that number reactions yeah that that's that's a interesting perspective that I hadn't occurred to me but I I do appreciate that I'm I'm less comfortable with 80 in two years because I feel like that sets up for failure because if you if you if you know 12 months go by and you're at zero then it's 80 in one year and just seems too too too big a hill de clim know some larger number over a greater period of time seems like it's something to work towards I think over yeah to Rob's point it makes me curious about what our criteria is in terms of like 80 in the pipeline in two years or 80 keys in hand are really different metrics and I'm not saying they need to be defined in the goal but that's the kind of when when we're writing the actual plan it might be helpful to just have many footnotes or something that's defining these terms but also would help clarify the setting of the goals right so because it even made me wonder I think our last plan we outgrew it by the years like I think the cut off time was 2022 or 2023 so it's like are the North and Mer Toms we were just talking about would that count within this plan or is it outside of the plan right those kinds of questions would shift my opinion because that's you know almost 30 30 units there right like so and then also it makes me curious about so this is new development but for example if um the public H you know like if the public housing bill passes and then a bunch of unused units come online would that count I think it might it would it count for the town if there was a rehab right like so just curious how we're Counting yeah if we're going to make the goals be measurable we better know what we're measuring exactly or we will get lost good points I'm wondering if that can't be under some of the strategies um I mean uh I I I would feel 80 and two years is a lot just having been on the trust since 2019 um we do have things in the pipeline and pipelines take a long time ball Lane 2020 what is it 2028 uh and then uh belter toown road is also um I mean I I think five years is a good number with what we have in the pipeline to actually open door and have people inside um but I I think if if we make it too narrow I I think it's a little um disheartening at times to look at our goals and say oh well it's coming but but we're not there and it's two years already up um I know Grover had presented 300 which we thought was a little high but five years and since we we might be getting that $1 million and um if we do include um advocacy and and and supporting public housing as well why not so I guess just from like a math standpoint not that I'm very good at math but I believe that 250 if you even did out over five years would be 50 units coming online a year so if we're thinking we can't even get to 80 in two years how are we going to get to 250 in five years realistically which I think is a a obviously we need the housing but I guess I'm just concerned again does that mean that 2029 all of a sudden we're building 250 units um and the spacing of things I guess is something to think about and obviously we have vure toown road coming online but that's again years from now and it's a it would take out a big chunk of those but in the immediate I don't think we should see this as units that are occupied because that's the only way that you would likely get to 250 in five years is if you had a large chapter 40b development and you counted all of them as affordable even though only 20 of 20% of them would be because the way that affordable housing goes is just it takes longer but but um but where you've come to the point where it's happening it's moving forward it's just that it's not done yet and I think that you could consider that as counted as you've supported that so um I appreciate what Grover and others are saying I don't think you need to get too hung up on it like this is supposed to be a guide It's supposed to help move you forward but I don't think we need to get too nitpicky about these things um although to to Nate's point I appreciate that if 250 is the number that people always here it may just sound redundant and not very thoughtful so um and to algra to your point I think that that why 80 in two years sounds like so much is because two years can go so fast when it's affordable housing at the same time if you're only supporting affordable housing developments if you're primarily supporting affordable housing developments that are 60 units or less then that's really hard to get to 250 or 300 in five years as well so I know sorry I was going to jump in I um I was like oh like you know so right now the Shi says we have 1,50 affordable units and I was like oh let's just you know 20% of that is 250 ironically but it's like well what percentage would we say let's update our you know if we want to increase our number of affordable units you know do we have like some you know if we say we want to be like 15% more 20% more but it is so I mean that is the right kind of ballpark for me I guess it's just you know it's been that number has been used a lot and so I don't want to make I don't want it to seem stale right even if it's the right number it's just like oh here's 250 again um yeah and I agree that it's it could be a stretch I mean I think algra there's like this magic wand that happens and somehow the units get get built no I don't know but I agree the in process or permitting I think would be could count um I do feel like that you know even if we started something now um there may not be keys in hand in five years unfortunately right like if right you know depending on how the funding works or what happens and so you know I think um you know the town keeps saying well let's maybe come up with another site or do something and it's like I feel like we could keep moving things along but um yeah I mean I think we can't say let's have if they're you know totally occupied in five years that's that's really aggressive but not gonna happen yeah I think per permitting I think feels I'm Shelly I'm curious have other communities come up with a mechanism for this and would would permitting compare to others or um I I think it's I don't know how specific communities get but um permitting where it's it's definitely moving forward um seems could be a good measure I think a good measuring point because you know they have in order to get funding from the most affordable housing needs funding from the state in order to do that you need to have the permitting in place I mean you need to have that needs to be done so you know to Nate's point then it could take two rounds to get the funding from the state that's two years and it could take a nine months or a year to get the permitting depending on how how aggressive the community is so I mean you're easily looking at three years before you even and that's not counting any kind of community process Community engagement as well so yeah so I think that permitting is perhaps the measure that that you might want to use consider using Grover yeah so I well I just want to say one I generally agree with the goal so I'll just say like I don't want right the the detailed comments isn't a way of saying I don't generally agree with the goal but I do think the measurement is important because you know the goal of the document right is to hold the work even as people move on and off and so having clear metrics even if they're in the strategies just like they're written out seems important and a question I have around this and maybe maybe it's a solution is you know earlier in the in the meeting we were talking about the potential of using some funds to um support reparations for down payment assistance for units that we've already supported already right and then also you know uh we it's not development to support uh somebody purchasing a land trust property necessarily unless it's a newly online new property right so like is there a way in this goal to split some units like 50 and then also I can imagine unfortunately the next five years are going to be very interesting in our country and I could imagine that there might be something to happen where suddenly there's a an urgent ask for um rental assistance or some other kind of emergency assistance that comes before us so is there a way to to sort of be realistic about our building goals and also either make as a strategy or included in some other bucket some other way that there's part of the chunk of our goals of creating affordable housing making housing affordable to people through a down payment assistant or an right like this a cash um assistance it's not development right so I'm just acknowledging it's not development and if we also feel like 250 of permitted units is probably not realistic then yeah and then my second I have just a really concrete question which is do all of the inclusionary units count as this number I'm getting a had not I mean would you be would the trust be doing anything to support those to encourage those to make them happen right it just happen because there's a so then it's it's just an open question in terms of how we merge the town's goals for affordable units how they're counted and and then I guess you could argue yes because we would advocate for the policy to continue for example so um first reaction if you if the trust wants to commit to a down payment assistance type program or a buy down program I actually wouldn't put that in development I'd make it a fourth goal and do because that seems different enough and then I would just have a fourth goal because I don't really think it fits in the other buckets very well either so I think that just needs to be a discussion that you have if if that's something that the trust wants to commit to or if it feels like that the um I mean to do those programs well then you need to manage them there needs to be an administrative entity someone that's um managing the details of the program I don't know if that's already set up in ammer or if that's something that you're thinking of how to do I think it's more that we are responsive when other entities are doing it right so you would help fund it if someone wants to manage the program right I see or if just opportunities come up I mean the the money the thing that we did with the uh Community Land Trust was they were man we just provided kind of the money that was needed because expenses had things had risen so much and it made something possible that would not otherwise have been and so someone's in a home that wouldn't have otherwise been we didn't do a lot except a piece of the money in fact we didn't really so I don't know whether it if it shouldn't be under development I would hate to not have that kind of activity as part of our goals somewhere so I don't care where if it should not be development that's fine then if it should be another goal that's fine but I don't in my head I think I was conflating it into development and because I don't want to not do it and if it shouldn't be there then that's cool but I don't want to leave it out and or if it's something that's come that's intermittent that you're not really managing as a program but it's something that may comes to you intermittently here or there does it need to be in the goals or is it just I'm not sure if it needs to be in the goals if you're not actively managing and funding the program managing it and pursuing it are two different things I think I think we could be pursuing it but pursuing situations in which we don't end up having to manage it I that doesn't seem impossible to me and so the the thing wrong with not having any the goals anywhere is that then there's no reason to try to do it I mean it feels like you know I would like a reason to try to work on that I would like to work on that and so I would like to keep it somewhere in here and I I my bad I guess that it didn't occur to me that it wasn't part of development and I kind of get that it isn't but um what what if we we could have just have a home ownership goal okay yeah then that that yeah something like that would be then so then it might be development and it might not be development it could be however it could happen in other ways than development but I don't know I guess the other thing I wanted to say before was just um five years is such a short time in in developing anything when I got on this trust and I've almost been long here now been here long enough now that they're going to kick me off whether I like it or not and the building that was coming up trying to get started when I came on had people occupying it a few months ago that's you know so five years is like one of the first hard things that I had to learned when I came on the trust is everything takes so much longer than you wish it did and and and and the other thing about five years and however many whatever the number is the number at least as it described to me was it's it's we need more than that so it's not really a description of what we need it's an aspiration and it's we don't want to make it so small that it we're not trying we don't want to make it so completely big that we it covers everything we would ever need but we want it to be a stretch and it seems like five years is right because whatever you pick as the thing that you're going to measure they're not going to happen very fast and they're going to happen in lumps there's no way it's going to be a nice thing like this it's going to be like this and it's going to be all over the place so if you don't have five years you don't even have kind of five years seems withth the smallest sample of doing things in this kind of Realm that would make sense thank you Erica so I I was sort of on the same line with Carol but I didn't realize development was so narrow in terms of development um I I actually saw it as including you know any unit that we can create to make more affordable for somebody I thought that would count um and if it doesn't if it's really about you know the development on Bel toown Road in Southeast Street and our apartments and ball uh but even ball Lane I mean ball Lane is something that we've supported because they asked us to support we didn't initiate that if we can't count those that 250 I think is way over way over so as Carol was talking I've taken it back I've changed my mind I think that it should fit under development okay all right then then I'm fine with sorry all right then I'm fine with 250 okay as we talk more and more as we talk more and more I'm thinking that that that's that of course it should fall under development yeah I support the goal okay wait so so now so now if down payment assistance emergency rental assistant right like it feels slippery um would that be included and I only say I know it's important to have goals I know it's important for us to focus and I worry that if we create a document that says here's our goals and our primary goal is to ensure 250 units of affordable housing are created over the next five years or in the pipeline to be so that then um it's almost as if the as if our a strategic plan document theoretically should translate into a budget if we had one like if I was thinking future and then there would be no line item for this need came up in the community and we don't do that right like like this need came up like down payment assistance like so I would just not want it to be the biggest but a like a a fund a slush money um strategic pot for um securing affordable housing be that home ownership or rental um is it decided is it decided that the trust is going to be doing emergency rent assistance I guess that's the this exercise is trying to like narrow what your focus is and if we're going to keep adding these other things then I think we need to have a discussion about that well we did that in the emergency of covid I mean then then we decided that given the really dramatically unprecedented and unexpected situation that we were in we could deal with this emergency by providing some rental assistance so people could stay where they were and we found ways to have not have to manage that either I mean we we have found somebody else to manage it but we provided the funding and so I don't it's not like we're going to go try to compete with rack or something or other but it's like if an emergency comes up in our community again and we and there's something that we can do about it it would be it would be hard not to sure so I see that as a little bit different than our goal number one because that is like you know and I I think I hear what you're saying Carol uh in terms of if it's not somewhere can we do it or should we do it Etc but I think we're looking at three areas of priorities and for me and I love Grover that you're pushing us to be clear because I'm trying to be clear in my mind I think if it's not longterm like for example I think if we uh help like with the amorist uh Community Land Trust that stays affordable uh in perpetuity and you know the the apartments that we have uh hopefully stays in perpetuity um and hopefully Baine will stay you know affordable but I think you know emergency rental assistance is it was an emergency and where where what we're doing is we're uh trying to prevent eviction and being unhoused versus creating that apartment as an affordable apartment in perpetuity so I'm trying to I'm trying to you know clarify that too is that for me the development is to ensure that whatever space that we're supporting stays affordable it is actually a creation of an affordable space for a long period of Time Versus just uh an emergency to to help somebody through uh bad times and I think that you should see this as a living document that it should be Revisited every year or two and if something comes up it can be modified but I'm not sure that you put something in that you're not specifically anticipating working on right now Grover yeah okay that c that yeah that standard setting is helpful and also um I I agree with you Erica and and in part I'm saying this because I I want the doc to do its purpose right which is to get us on the same page and CLE on what we're doing together and I imagine that that's the kind of thing that may come up so currently no not a priority because we have this longer Vision which is there's enough affordable homes that people aren't going to be right not able to secure one and we can change it if there's an emergency because I don't think CO's the last emergency we're gonna right unfortunately so it it seems like the 100% Ami is fine people generally are for the most part five years is okay the two I'm still not certain if the 250 if we're okay with the 250 if we want to modify that number go um the 100% is okay for me as a goal but I would like us to have some different strategies that clarify Amis different deeper affordability yes absolutely yeah I mean to me 100% matches CPA but I'm I'm not sure that that's um you know an Ami that we really have in our bi our zoning B our others you know right now it's 80% and then you know I've been saying you know if we want to do other things maybe if we go we could do 150 or we have some at 60 100 is just one of those things that it fits the funding but is it really um kind of a Ami Target and so you know I think it's fine it's it's how we how we Define it's in the bylaw a little bit we referenced um CPA statute um in the trust bylaw you did well we mentioned that right we that the ability to use CPA funds we don't actually say like anything else we don't really say what Ami is but we reference you know using CPA funds so to me that it can correspond with that um yeah you know I think what I like about this is we had an action plan and I think the trust will be getting more request for funding and so not that we're going to say no but I think it can help the trust be a little bit more judicious in its discussions and you know like right now for instance if we weren't getting new CPA money or inclusionary money the Trust might only have a balance of like 100,000 right or 130,000 uh you know so you know the what if is like what if the CPA money doesn't come through or something and the other doesn't you know we sit on it for the next year we have 130,000 all right what what you know okay as we start building our pot again what are what are priorities and I think that this is a nice time to have that we're having the housing production plan hopefully getting going soon there's a little delay there but yeah I mean you know there's a much greater need and you know shelle said this right like if we say this is a a one or twoyear plan but there's say fiveyear Goals or whatever it is like let's really focus make something achievable and actionable and then you know it doesn't mean we're not doing other things but you know it's like we can reevaluate as we go I think that's that's can be really helpful because I do feel like we could get lost and you know just keep putting money here and then there and then you know oh yeah someone else is looking for some rental subsidy oh next year you know a few months later it's like oh there's a you know something else and we're like oh sure and you know I think some trust members were like oh if we have it let's spend it but I'm not I think we have to be careful with that like I don't want to say now we're going to come up with a voucher program that we're going to support some local voucher program and you know if our goal is to have units then let's let's stay that course for a bit and uh reevaluate yeah yeah I'm just goingon to say one more time the 250 number should we should we modify that should we should we um 269 I don't I don't I don't know it doesn't I know yeah I've heard 250 a whole lot I don't really care if we leave it or change it it's just sort of whatever I I think we should change it I mean to be honest it's like okay we worked really hard with wayfinders to get a project they have 45 affordable units right 80 total ball Lane had 30 um not even those depending on how what Ami you count you know there's 10 market rate right so then it's like okay well actually put in what we're going to do I mean maybe it's 150 over five years and you know and and that's actually like let's actually push for that like maybe we modify the inclusion rate zoning to capture more that can count maybe we really work on getting two sites which are each going to net you know 40 units like um you know if you look at what's underneath that it's like okay can we find sites or get land donated do fundraising I mean I don't want to say let's not reach but it's like if we're actually thinking we we're GNA get you know you know 50 affordable units of development we can get three and five years plus some extra is it 200 I mean you know and we map it out in a way that makes sense as opposed to just saying like oh go goodness we have to have five comprehensive permits one a year for the next five years that just seems really unrealistic or maybe the trust is the one that actually gets the 250 unit the 250 unit done we wouldn't mind if we exceeded a goal so that's not really GNA be a problem ever so making a checklist of things you've already done just so you can right this on the list or I can check it off yeah no but I just think like I don't want right I you know like if we did say 150 or 180 and you're like wow that's actually something we're gonna really you know it's like it to me it seems like that's more kind of reasonable and feasible and maybe we'd actually push for it instead of like getting a little exasperated and being like Oh gosh 250 but like you know I don't know so I personally think that under 200 is is too little for your community that's my opinion maybe 200 let's go for 200 sure 200 going once does anyone um have an issue with it being 200 less than 250 of course you can always go over but I to me under 200 is just too low for you that's the nudge we needed we just needed someone to say something brover I know that I think that you proposed 300 so how how are you feeling about the drop to 200 I mean I want us to come out throwing elbows and like get to 300 and also we meet once a month we're like we're like I feel like we're starting to like we're like a crew team that moved from the you know gym rower onto the water and um and so I don't want to be how do I say unnecessarily what you know the one holding the light forward uh if yeah because I do agree with Nate that the numbers are the numbers and also I want more but also do we have the energy to get you know my my land acquisition goals were higher than the like proposed strategies here and that would require a lot of what's not seen in this meetings which is like networking and asks and relationship building and right research and and all these kinds of things and now we have Greg so so like some of some more research and things like that like things happen but also so yeah I would like more and it sounds like everyone else is pressing lower so I will seed that and hope we I will I was looking forward to the party where we celebrate that we exceeded 200 units is what I was imagining you can still have that party you can still you can still exceed 200 units it' be awesome if you got to that okay so does it we'll move it down to two we'll keep it as it is except move um from 250 to 200 with hopes that you actually hit 250 okay we're gonna hit 300 I mean 300 that's what I meant yes yeah fantastic so wait what if we what is it going to be now 200 or 300 200 200 okay thank you 200 on paper and 300 in our hearts all right y gr over great can we move on to are people comfortable with that we can move on to the second one okay so second one is funding all about funding and setting a a fairly ambitious of securing $4 million over the next 5 years to support the work of the trust now has this million dollars been committed for sure or is it still a possibility the million dollars the is that for sure yet or is that still only a possibility I mean nothing's for sure until we have like money in the bank account but I but I the the development's moving forward um so like we're yes it's it's it's we should plan on it I think uh not as per so guess sorry sh what was the question I was I was um stuck on the action steps for the first goal I was trying to search all the municipality owned properties and I was just thinking sorry just backtrack maybe it's not Municipal owned uh municipally owned I feel like the town doesn't own many great sites to be honest but maybe it's you know a choir or something just two properties could be municipal or private I feel like a better opportunity is actually you know that um we had done kind of the broad brush look at Municipal properties a few times last five years and you know once the town owns it it's like the disposition process and all this stuff is just just pretty cumbersome and honestly it's like we don't we don't own like a nice 20 acre flat field somewhere it's like we own you know I think we're come back at strategies actually I know I know I'm just I was just you know sorry it's good it's good to hear though that that that the small group can take that into consideration when they're considering strategies but when you ask about funding sorry because I was looking at for mapping some stuff did you ask about the in the inclusion rate payment or what next yes I just was wondering how because getting back to kind of Grover is pushing us to be um explicit thoughtful and explicit about how we're going to measure this like will we count that million towards this or is it because it's already far enough along then we're saying we're not going to count that with this four million that's what I was kind of getting at oh right right right oh interesting Greg how did you answer that I'm curious well I mean I I answered that nothing is official until it's in the bank but I think we're gonna receive those funds um you know I mean that that development's underway I suppose they could stop building Midway and not get a certificate you know I mean the developer unlikely to go under you know it's it's an experienced developer other than that I can't imagine or we don't get those funds yeah actually I mean Roy it's interesting the way it is the funds are tied to is it the is it a building permit or occupancy permit a certificate of occupancy I believe yeah so um so we should get them for not but but not for a while but so that means we can count it in our four million sure I don't know I guess you could you know I we this won't be more formally kind of completed until likely the summer which would be the new fiscal year um so it's it's up to you whe whether you want to start say that that's already you've already advocated for that you've already got the commitment and then it's 4 million beyond that or um I guess if at the end of five years you don't have your four million you could go back and count I think psychologically it's probably cleaner to say that our rather like you know the choices seem like we could not count that and trim the goal I think it's actually better to count it and keep the goal at four million I agree you know I think you know put put a couple snaps in our punch card on the way um yeah yeah I mean again you know 2019 to now uh the only fundings we've been able to get is from the CPA and you know we we've been pretty they've been pretty generous with us but we never got as much as we've asked for um and so this is the first time we've actually gotten something this high up um you know 1.2 million is a a lot of money and unless the transfer fee comes uh we're going to start having to throw some uh funding parties um but the the the where I always have a hard time with us doing fundraising is is that there are lots of organizations who are doing excellent work that I do not want to be competing against and I don't even know how much we can fund raise so you know we're looking at either you know Wonderful donors out there or us somehow twisting you Mass in the other colleges arms or uh transfer fees uh or more people like uh you know Barry Roberts um otherwise I'm not sure where we're gonna get the four million from um Grover did you want to comment well I was just gonna say I think your list that you just read out there because such an amazing list like like I agree with you I don't think that fundraising like a backyard party when that money like you can only go to the same well so many times in terms of like my kids parents friends you know my kids friends parents so um I I I feel good about this number I feel agnostic as to I I think Greg's point about it'll sort of like Get Us feeling the fire is good it will feel so so again I say keep it and count the million and surpass it because I'm hopeful that if in Loop payments are effective at creating more homes that we'll see more of them and also it's long past every community in the United States my opinion have a transfer tax on short-term rentals right including ours so um yeah I think we can do it other thoughts on this goal yeah I mean I was going to say it might go hand inand with a few other things so if we have unit creation or other things um and we have this payment andl option for inclusionary zoning maybe it helps the trust you know if there's another project that maybe is providing two units somewhere you know what's The Balancing Act or whatever it is do we allow a payment because it can actually we can leverage that to get more affordable units and so you know I think in that respect it can help um you know further the agenda we uh we're proposing a slight change to the inclusionary zoning to allow you know a greater payment or a lesser payment depending on units um other things but you know I think both the trust and planning board felt it was hard to get the developer to pay more than what the bylaw stated uh and so I think you know I think it could be reasonable to say yeah how do we how do we navigate that in the future is you know you know could we take another payment in L to get to a goal because then that means we can fund a development of 50 unit somewhere or some home home ownership unit somewhere or do something that you know we're leveraging it and yeah I think that can help the trust be a little more maybe um kind of active um I I like four million I have no idea where it's going to come from but I I guess to me it is clear that the strategies are going to be about things like things that are not going out and actually directly getting the money it's going to be like supporting the transfer fee coming up with some kind of rental fee that we might decide to support it's going to be supporting something or other that's a mechanism that's not us going out and saying give me some money please because that's not going to work and the only thing that I worry a little bit about is it's four and a half years from now and here's a development that's about to go in and they're offering Us in Li and if we take the inl we'll get over our $4 million but oh maybe we want these units because if we take the units we'll get up to our some other goal I I hope we don't get in a situation where we're where we're worrying about that but I think we are better than that and it'll be okay I think you're better than that unfortunately there's no consequence for us like or shiny cake it's good there's no shiny cake the end in terms of government accountability but like it's merely satisfaction I think and our own commitment to what the work that we're doing that we had right and so whether someone we decide it's strategically beneficial to keep the units in the building or take the money they're both a win because ultimately our our mission is our mission yes yeah yeah yeah absolutely so are folks comfortable to keep this as is and to move on to the third goal um actually I want to um rease the the suggestion that I made in in our small group just to air it again um where where I suggested or or somebody suggested and I agreed that um acquiring land is as a way of accumulating resources which is what I think this goal is about and and you argued s argued that that land is a development strategy um but you know I see I see that as a means to get to development but so is money in to development so if we if we if we get a million dollars to build 10 units is that 10 units or is that a million dollars it's it's you know it's what's so anyway I I I I think that um you know if we were to acquire $4 million in assets or $5 million in assets which could be land assets um you know that's that's the way I see this goal but I I understand um your possession as well but I just wanted to raise that so people knew that we had that discussion so part of the reason why I was pushing back on putting it in funding is because I think it also goes under development and it could be where the strategies are the same for two different goal for the you'd have the same strategy for two different goals and to me that's confusing so that's why I was pushing advocating to separate those and have funding just be cash right but but so then so then that is that $4 million not go to the 250 200 homes I mean that's that's what I mean I I don't are we saying 200 homes and $4 million to do rental assistance and and homeless shelter and other things you know that's that's why it's confusing to me I see what you're saying yeah okay I see what you're saying yeah because basically it's it's number two to help support number one yeah well you know I'm gonna jump and say even if that's true I don't think that's a bad thing um sorry Greg I saw your hand raised but the um I think it's nice to have that though because uh you know unit creation or development is one thing and then there's some some steps underneath that and then there's fundraising or funding and I think it's really important for the trust as Carol said you know are there other mechanisms or methods to to develop funding and maybe it's you know we try to come up with different ways to have continuous funding or some re some revenue streams and whether or not it supports the 250 or not it's I think that's a really important thing for the trust to come up with and so you know CPA has been nice maybe you know the like that percentage allocation is great but you know what if there's a few other things that the trust advocates for and pushes for and it and you know it you know and it it can be used for whatever but I think it's just nice to have that as H you know a goal because it's I think it'll help the Trust In everyone realize that that's it's you know that's that's where it is right we want to get there um and funding can help with a lot of different things maybe it even helps with Goal number three but it's just I think it's a it's nice to have kind of that impetus to keep us um kind of you know imagining what could be possible and under development with the it's actually now 200 200 units um it's the trust wouldn't necessarily have to fund all of those it there could be a more traditional 40b development that's just 20% affordable that the trust decides to help advocate for because it does have some affordable units in it and so that would be You' still be moving towards creating more affordable housing even though we could all argue that 80% is not affordable you know all that but um there could be other efforts where the trust is actively supporting it but not putting cash in the deal as well so but I I definitely see what you're saying rob that it it gets a little squishy when you really think of it that way and I I kind of had been thinking of it as goal to the the funding goal does support go one right I I I don't think they're separate I I like I think they should be broken out in our document here but I also but but Rob yeah no I don't think it's envisioned that all those funds would not go to development probably the mo majority of them would but I think fun you know I think funding is such a critical resource for that that it's worth elevating to a goal level rather than just housing and under development um just because the you know the the work that it takes to seek those those financial resources it's it's worth elevating it in my mind but but yeah they would I think support stuff under the development line not necessarily exclusively but significantly except you know Rob was talking about do just um value land as a not just have funing as cash but also as the asset of land I still support I think it should be cashed but that's that's but I'm only I'm just the I'm just helping and if the rest of you it's it's your your plan how you want to think about it I mean it just makes me wonder if the the like three tidy goals is a it's like a deeply ingrained number and also it's clean and but it makes me wonder about the hierarchy of our information and it seems to me like I was reading this document and so thank you for asking the question Rob that the document is actually pointing to the First Development Goal as the primary goal of the trust over the next five years and then the other things support that goal and have other effects right like any education we do is gonna have other effects outside of what the work the trust does or anything we do in five years and also it is going to point us towards that goal because hopefully it reduces resistance reduces time lag right those things so just naming that I'm not saying we have to rewrite the goals I think whoever's going to read this document will probably read it similarly and at the party we can be like remember when Rob said that oh my gosh we have so many assets because we have land and we met our financial goal going to be great just for me the way that my brain works is that we want we want a land donation from ums amers to build units so I'm thinking of that as units instead of cash where to me I'd see it as cash if you want to sell it to make money to then invest so that that's just how my brain works that I'm thinking we want the land for units how many units can we get on the land that that's maybe just how my brain works I don't think my brain is working but if we're having this conversation are we saying because I'm seeing land under a strategy for development but would funding also then be a development strategy so actually just you making that comment is reminding me that we're getting too deep into strategies right now now and and we really need to be focused back on goals so I'm I'm so sorry so why don't we continue mulling this over in the small group and with what we develop as strategies and what if if we're okay with number two at this point moving on to three just because we are coming up on nine o'clock just to be sensitive to people's time is that okay Rob okay okay great so the the third one is looking at education and and public engagement knowing that even though ammer has come a long way particularly compared to a lot of our communities in Massachusetts that there's always more work to be done around engaging the community and building broader support for affordable housing so this one says develop a minimum of four events a year to educate the community about local housing needs and build support for more affordable housing so I'm working in a couple other communities one of them they were concerned about the word event because of what that suggested to them about kind of time commitment of an event and they wanted one of these events to be able to be perhaps a social media campaign around a certain development or effort or something where it's not really an event um so I wanted to put that out there that as I'm working with this other community I think we're using um Outreach efforts or something like that some different phrasing so it's not just event specific so I just want to put that on the table and and have a conversation of how how this goal feels to you because you know you're a volunteer board you have Greg but you're a volunteer board for events every year can be can be a lot that's one per quarter so that that's it can feel pretty heavy pretty fast well that's my concern I can't imagine doing four events in a year it takes us for it takes us I just don't think that's GNA I think unrealistic and um and maybe it would be maybe if you change event to something different than four would be okay but if you leave events four is too many two might be more possible more more reasonable to me but I think maybe I like the idea of expanding what it is that can be done because the point is community engagement in whatever way that you think up to do it I think I interrupted Grover but your comment was so great feel glad about that I um I also agree that for inperson events seems overly ambitious although we do have like you know we have been amplifying the East Street event that happened a couple months ago you know there we I think if we were to slice it different ways we would get there but um I think just changing that one word to to whatever you suggest because it's 900m and but like you know a word that means a kind of Engagement and engagement outside of our regular meetings with the community be that social media a Communications campaign that hosting an event co-hosting an event public conversation we did the listening sessions more than a year ago so I but it sounds good to me if that gets M so if it's something like um Outreach efforts does that sound like it could work or do you have a different idea well um jump in I mean I I hear what you're saying I don't know how much of it semantics or not but I was thinking like three like one a quarter and I like the idea that it's something that is not normal trust business and so for instance I don't you know we're we're you know when we have a comprehensive permit we set up a web page we do a lot of things but to me that's part of the permit process and I wouldn't want to say that's an Outreach effort so you know as long as it's like something that is a little um you know beyond what would be kind of perfunctory business of the trust or the town and I don't want to make it sound like what we're doing isn't important but you know it's like I did like those listening sessions they're like what if every year we just did like you know we reached out to the rental registration all the landlords and had um you know a meeting again about renting to voucher holders or something or we you know we come up with an idea that like okay three times a year we're going to have this and we can you know it might be a slow start but hopefully we can get the idea of rolling that okay like these three months typically it's like whatever it is like April September November whatever it is like we're going to be doing something and we really start programming and people expect it and I mean that's when I read that that's kind of what what I was envisioning like okay yeah let's have some of these pieces that really pull people in like what if it's you know having some you know pulling in Banks and having like home ownership stuff like we talk all about equity and you know we have different you know vendors or people come and so yeah I don't know I mean it can be it could be in person could be multimedia but I'm just you know I was seeing as something like that uh and I think three is reasonable for still I agree for seems like a lot but so I would just suggest that this whatever is done under this that it really is helping to reinforce the goal of development of units so some of what you're bringing up Nate I think is important but I think it could get away from this focus of units developing units um but it doesn't have to be just so you this trust is oftentimes done an annual Forum like a community forum and so that could be like an event event a traditional more kind of traditional event and maybe you can continue that and maybe that's one of these Outreach efforts but then it could be that another is I mean in my opinion under funding you really need to figure out a way to build your relationship with the CPC and get more CPA funds that's just my personal opinion so another could be just having this some sort of joint you know having a joint meeting with them but really making sure that you're building the relationship with the CPC that you're articulating making sure that they are um aware of housing needs in the community and that you're updating them and so we don't have to just do a traditional kind of event but it could be these other kinds of efforts and then you do so many other things in the community where you're bringing awareness to housing but I think you just want to make sure that you don't get too far away from that this school helps to reinforce the other goals you know and to that I I think you know emphasizing these could look a lot of ways right you know but um you an example that comes to mind is I could imagine sometime in the next fiveyear time Horizon there being a land use decision at zba or at um uh at the planning board um that needed a push right an organized effort that goes beyond just this meeting you know this monthly meeting um to enroll public participation in that conversation I I think that would absolutely qualify as far as what we're talking about here you know presuming there was you know there was some infrastructure around it that you know put some meat on the bones so to speak um uh you know if there were another home ownership program partnering in you know Mark marketing an Outreach in some way in the affirmative marketing plan that's maybe outside of our lane a bit but you know but I I think there's lots of different um sort of uh Community engagement strategies that absolutely could attach to our other goals you know um and I think to me one of the measuring points is is outputs you know or intended outputs um not necessarily that we hold ourselves to some certain standard but that the engagement is intended to have an output that is namable you know um maybe I pause there but yeah I think I and I think three of those you know I the at the staff level I'm thinking about it in terms of what I have like a project timeline and you know task list and things to delegate to different people and a list of calls to make you know what would it rise to that level um that's kind of how I would filter it and you could point that at a lot of different things could be a public forum could be an advocacy effort um could be a trip to Boston you know come budget time go holler about the transfer fee well Greg you could potentially have one or two members of the trust be on a small committee a planning committee to kind of plan out the year on a yearly basis just so that you're mapping it out uh that could just be how someone on the trust kind of really puts really engages and I think you know in this you know yeah agree for sure that'd be a great idea be a fantastic idea and I think just thinking about our role as a catalytic component within town government for you know affordable homes you know I that's a big part of why this is important I think you know is that you know some of these might not be super hugely broadly public some of them might be more narrow and intentional and sustained you know like you know um and you know yeah so without getting too deep into the weeds I I think um you know there's lots of different ways this could look but and I think they're fairly namable I think we could come up with a pretty reasonable set of criteria and and then on an annual basis ask the group to say hey what what should we focus on this year and then make some proposals and and if you have I mean you're having the updating the housing production plan coming up so you have a great really immediate coming up that you can build some things around so what if we say Dev oh sorry go ahead you can finish what you're saying and then I was just going to propose um the develop a minimum of three Outreach Outreach efforts a year um I guess that's okay listening to what Greg just said it more seems important to me to develop uh a committee that plans a Year's events or something or other than just develop a bunch of event I I don't each one of them seem to me to take a lot of effort more effort than anyone ever thinks of when they say you could do because it takes a lot of effort to make D happen that nobody thinks of and and so if we just say we're going to develop three or however many I I don't know how to write it but I would like to say something that said we're going to do this in a concerted way and we will have a each year or something we'll have it here's what we're going to do this year and here's who's going to tell us each what we have to do about it or something then just a number so but I'll accept the number but the other thing I wanted to say actually is uh it's 9:03 and so I want to make sure that we have that people can stay till I don't know 9:10 or something so we can finish this conversation and then give me two minutes to because most of the other things on the agenda are getting ready for next time and so that won't take very long but is it okay with everybody to say another 10 or 15 minutes just give me some thumbs if that's acceptable um um can you okay all right go ahead oh so I would only respond to you Carol simply saying that we will get more into those details in the strategies and we could even have some more General language just associated with this plan of kind of guidance to how to do the planning every year for this particular goal yeah so it won't just stay at the goal we'll we'll get into the we'll dig deeper all right I guess that's okay okay go over I would I would just request that the goal as stated have integrated educate the community about local housing needs and build support for more affordable housing some phrase about working towards the something about working towards the goals because I could imagine a way in which the trust felt like we had to do three as was named like oneoff events and in organizing hyperfocusing those towards the goals and then and then making the events match that is always going to be more effective and less exhausting and so just some phrase saying orienting four events a year to educate the community help achieve our go our main goals and then the third Clause build support for more affordable housing something like that that would be my request and then we're we you know starting to go down the strategy land and it's late but um I also wouldn't I personally wouldn't want us to be too prescriptive Beyond create a working group um because to say at the beginning of the year that we have to map it out goes to what I was worried about which is what I think is not super strategic strategy because if a development is proposed that's contentious then a lot of our energy is going to go there and we're going to decide that we're going to do an event about it or we're gonna write an oped and have communications plan right like some portion of it is respons so we so there's a balance of pre-planned but also some that is like actually we need to go to the legislature and get really loud this um those are yeah not going to be decided in a January meeting do you think that by keeping the language of a minimum of that that kind of helps with that that we want to make sure we doing a minimum of this but that doesn't preclude you from doing responding to other things that come along yeah but I also don't think that in January we should say we're going to do these three events not know what the context dealing with is I think it's like we should sort of check in reg as the subit okay we can think that out a little bit more okay so we'll consider um I guess just because it is after 9ine why don't we [Music] um what is the the small all proposed some language responding to to the small group and then when they're comfortable with it then we'll send it back to the full group and then I think you know don't reply all but just reply to Greg with your feedback on that and then if we can just have your thoughts tightened up before the before the next small group meeting which is probably a week or so away so that we can start digging into strategies that would be helpful but Nate do you have something to to add to this no I guess in terms of like how this gets done I mean I was thinking if we have three goals you know we have three subcommittees of the trust right or we the idea would be that this becomes something people can invest themselves in and maybe they pick something right and it but the idea to me the idea would be and I thought the hope with was this is that you know a after this process you know maybe there is one two three whatever you know subcommittees that are actually working toward you know um individual goals or strategies right so yeah so maybe there is something there is a group that is working toward the Outreach efforts maybe there's some that's working on researching funding mechanisms but that that's that's my vision right like I don't you know I think Greg uh might like all the um the lists and and everything um you know sure and running with stuff I don't want to put so much on his plate though that he gets overwhelmed right or myself but that's what I was hoping that through this process the trust is feeling kind of empowered and members are really interested and say yeah I'm GNA pick this up whether it's an ad hoc group or a formal subcommittee or whatever we're going to run with it and so that's what I'm hoping we get out of this right that there's some interest uh and you know staff can always help but you know that members are like yeah I want to pick this up too and and really really move forward so I don't you know how that gets done in the future sure but that's way that's the way I've been envisioning it the outcome of this is we have these this nice document we can send it around to planning board CRC others and then there's you know whether we bringing outside people to help us but we're really you know then taking active steps to to make it happen yes yep so my hope is that once we have the strategies outlined then you'll be able to start thinking which strategies are going to are you going to start with and then create tasks underneath that that you can be delegating to people to actually move forward on specific strategies yeah okay so um I as I said if it's okay with the small group that I will work on modifying these based on our conversation adding the phrase as Grover is suggesting I'll get it to the small group ask for your feedback and then Greg or Erica or Carol whoever will send it to the the full board for your okay or your reaction um to get everybody on the same page with the goals the three goals before the small group meets again to start digging into strategies that work yep okay fantastic great thank such a great conversation thanks so much for being very engaged it's really nice I'm going to sign off and then let you finish up your meeting and I'll be in touch all right thanks for your help thanks for being here thanks care bye bye going to say um you know the historical commission just had a new preservation Plan update and then they have some you know goals they're trying to work through and it's a it's a similar process but I think having Shelly is so helpful because I think the commission right now the circle commission is getting stuck on what do we do and so to focus in on then strategies and action steps is is really important and so I feel like I want to take this back to the historical Commission because I feel like you know we've had one and two your goals and we just met last week but it's like okay H how do we actually make it feasible and actionable and I think that's you know this it's a really it's a really difficult process to kind of distill something that's really Brad in a vision down to this and I I really appreciate that Shelley and you guys are working through this I think it's really great that members of the trust are doing this thanks Nate um so I think that I have just these couple of other things on here one being we we talked at the last meeting about our our root to you mass is through Paul and Dave and so we wanted to put together a set of whatever the questions are that seem most important to us to ask them to take to their meetings so I would like to actually not try to do that right now but ask people to please whatever you think might be important questions that you'd like to ask get them all to Greg between now and I don't know between now and a week or so before our next meeting so he can compile them or look at them or put them together in some way so that we can have a discussion and come up with what we at what we collectively think we want to say to them we do that next time but it would be good to have someplace to start from which would be each of us thinking of whatever questions we've got and letting let Greg sort of put it together for us to look at um so is that clear any questions about that or anything okay that's great so I jump in and just quickly can be anything like you know data requests like you know how many you know students on or off campus projections you know uh things they have ideas for housing it could be like you know the one of the strategies is land donation or disposition and so I think for now it could be anything that you know we think could be funneled through the town manager's office and discussions and then and then you know we can refine it but um yeah I mean it could be to me tendential to housing or the trust sometimes if it could then impact you know later on and so it doesn't necess have to be like oh how many housing units are you going to create let's think you know what else it could it be like you know do they have a plan for faculty moving forward housing but whatever you know so I think it could be pretty creative right now just to and I'll send some prompts out in email yeah I think yeah I think we've had lots of many kinds of questions to ask them and I bet you will come up with a good bunch to to get to Greg and to be able to look at together next time um and the other thing is we asked Nate for and it's a and it's the last thing in the packet that we got is uh language for inclusionary zoning just is the short version this is just what do we want to do that we hope we can get through quickly that will make it possible for somebody to decide to give us a different amount of money than the exact amount that's written in there now that the that the planning board didn't feel they could they could um amend or go above and so look at look at Nate's draft we'd like to be able to say to whoever we need to say it to we would like to see this happen it would be very helpful there's lots of other things we might want to do to the enclosure n zoning but but I think that it makes sense Nate thinks it makes sense correct me if I'm wrong but to do this this one thing by itself so that hopefully we can get it through quickly and not have to wait for the whole everything everyone ever is going to have to say about inclusion area zoning before we get this done so I the only thing to say about that is just we'll we'll look at it really next time unless everybody's already looked at it and wants to say yes in the next 10 seconds so yes thought this mean this means you like it so much we don't have to talk about it or we're going to talk about it next time I think Rob had his fingers down he had his fingers down all right okay I I don't like it so I I think we should talk about next okay well we'll talk well then we'll we'll talk about it next time I guess so talk about next time yeah let's talk about it next time great and then so quickly I think next time too if we talk about it we could talk about would the trust you know be the sponsor of this so we' we'd move it along as opposed to recommending it to the planning board it could be that the trust says this is you know we the trust sponsors it and it goes to council um you know if we can if we can refine the language and get it to where we like it uh you know I can have the Building Commissioner and planning director review it again and then we can you know just yeah soend it right I think that we were kind of looking to you I think as Nate you were trying to figure out where it should it come from and so we will but let's talk about it next time I would like to not talk about it now but everybody look at it again we'll get a chance we'll have it on our next agenda um and I unless somebody we have one attendee still who is Grace who um I I assume probably doesn't have anything to say but if you raise your hand and you want to say something quick as a public comment please raise your hand otherwise Erica wants to say something I just want to say happy birthday to Carol she actually spent her birthday evening co- facilitating this meeting so thank you very very much Carol for Happy Birthday Carol being here thank you thank Rob or anyone if you have comments on that the inclusion zoning send it to us Rob if you want to we could call you know have a call phone call or something but just yeah it'd be nice to have you know any other ideas too for next meeting we could have in a different version just to discuss okay so if anybody else Rob may do that if anybody else has anything we'll send that Dr to Nate I think because he's the one who's drafted it and so he can is that okay with you Nate yeah we send those things to you so if anybody has any that they want to put into the conversation for Nate to look at and we'll look at it all next time and I think that's itless anybody has anything they need to say our meeting is adjourned at 9:17 p.m. thank you all very much and have a good night thanks everyone everyone thank you thanks Erica good night