all right we're recording please go ahead okay everyone I'm uh calling the uh the um finance committee of the Town Council to order at 10: a.m. uh thank you for showing up all of you um it's uh I know it's hard to fit this into busy schedules but uh this is time for us to review the budget so uh we are holding this meeting uh remotely uh by authority of various of the state legislature um if uh you have trouble hearing please let us know and we will um we will try to get you in um there is a phone number that you can call if you have if you can't otherwise reach and you can attend by phone so I want to go around the room and make sure that um the we do have a quorum but make sure that we have uh the people on the uh committee can hear me and and can be heard uh councilman hanii present Andy Steinberg present Bernie present okay uh I don't see anybody else so uh everyone that is here is uh we can hear and uh they can be heard okay so the first um pardon me I'll check in with um Kathy and Alicia and uh just a note for Pamela we're going to do library first so if you'd like to turn your camera off and just listen in until we get to Dei that would be fine thank you for being here well I'm going to start go ahead and open up the the uh open up the the meeting to uh public comment I noticed there are two people in the audience uh if you have a if you want to make a comment please uh raise your hand and uh we will bring you in and listen to your comment I don't see any hands going up so I'm going to close the public comment period um I still haven't seen um Kathy or Alicia or oh there's Matt hi Matt can you hear us hey Bob I hear you how am I great okay so we have Matt present we're just missing Kathy and uh Alicia but I think we should go ahead since we have a busy schedule um so uh Sharon uh the library is up welcome to the meeting and uh we we sent you some questions I hope you got them and maybe you can just go through the the the questions that we that we prepared and then I'll open it up to other questions that people have yeah that's perfect um can I a share my screen sure you know hey Bob yes um I probably should uh say um right at the beginning of the meeting that um everybody should be aware that my wife is an employee of the library working parttime at Branch libraries and uh I have um consulted with the ethics commission and have determined that uh there is no uh problem with my participation in in this process since uh the decisions that we make don't affect uh her comp okay thank you I I see Kathy has joined us Kathy can you uh hear us and yeah I can yes I can and I yes I can and I'm trying to I seem to have turn my video off I am physically here I apologize for being late your video is here it's up so okay good morning everybody I um I I I have in inserted your questions uh through a couple of slides and um so I'll just run through them quickly and answer any more questions that you have uh your first question was about uh the change in in part- timers and uh basically for this position we were waiting to see um how the Staffing at the branches would work out um this is the the First full year that we've now got two full-time staff members overseeing both branches uh so Sharon can I ask you to pause very quickly so we can confirm that Alicia can hear us and be heard yes Alicia um thank you sorry for the interruption but thank you sorry about that Sharon thank you it's okay thank you um yeah so um when one of the part-timers from the branches left we we just decided to not refill that position um and part-timer positions or reductions in they really don't do anything to make or break the budget so um we're not looking at any future it they are never intentional Cuts it's just when people leave we stop and look and and decide whether or not we need to fill that position at that at that time okay and and then uh regarding the north hamis Library so yeah as as part of the expansion Paul and I you know we agreed that any new expenses a as a result of the expansion the town would take care of so now we have a memorandum of understanding with the town um so we pay rent um just like we do for the mson um so we provide services and the town takes care of uh building expenses Revenue questions uh your first question was about the DHS Grant so this grant uh Lynn winr received it's a it was a three it went over the course of three fiscal years the original amount was for $120,000 a little over um and and uh so it will finish out through this calendar year um there's about $15,000 left in that and uh the the grant funds uh an ESL program for seniors uh it's it's a really great class it's a great group of of older folks who uh are from all over the world and they're just learning how to speak English and they're having such a good time it's um anyways so that's what that's been uh what that money has been for um and it it it won't renew it was only meant to be a a one-time three-year project and your second question was any other grants that is the only grant that we're budgeting for for FY 25 uh your question about the endowment fabulous um but really all I can say is past performance is no guarantee uh for future performance what whether good or bad so um yes we we need about $300,000 every year from the endowment um and at one point when we were sticking to the 4% draw the that was only equaling like let's say $270,000 so th those years were hard um but thankfully uh it's been going up uh the the the amount in the endowment has been going up so 4% uh has been equaling more money um and so yes I agree with your your figures within the question and um but the library has a very Sound Investment policy um and it really just works beautifully for us yeah my question is Sharon was really focused on the sustainability and um you know it is up and down but what you do is you you shrink what you draw from the endowment each year depending on as you said the last 12 months or whatever is that correct it it's based on we take a trailing uh 12 quarter average so regardless of how high or how low you know the crazy stock world uh happens it doesn't it it doesn't hurt us or help us uh we stay we're we stay right down the middle and um it really it's it's a beautiful system I got to say it's as close to perfect as I can get um yeah okay under expenses uh and and state AIDS so um it it it is very rare when uh the library doesn't need state aid uh to pay salaries uh because uh the town appropriation just has never covered all of our salaries um I've only been here 12 years I I think I've seen it twice where we didn't need additional money above the count appropriation um the one was the FY 23 uh Year and that was because the the SEIU contract negotiations were going on over a couple of different fiscal years um and then the other was just due to we had several retirements of um employees who had been working here for several decades so um it ended up saving us a lot of money um so yeah uh your question are we Rel ring on state aid absolutely um and we know not to ever expect a 4% uh increase to the town appropriation um that you know this fy2 was just a a really happy once- in a-lifetime Opportunity um and we're very happy about it but we do understand that you know we're lucky if we get a 3% or a two and a half percent and then the norm is is more like two% maybe even one and a half percent so it because we have so many other buckets of money um it generally works out uh the the tough years were when we were the trustees were were bringing the endowment draw rate down to that 4% because it had been higher during previous trustee administrations um but now we're on the 4% course but but as we were dipping we had to uh pull out of reserves and um and and and now we're we're on the upward Trend again and we've got um some reserves so uh so it's working out well um thankfully the Massachusetts Board of Library Commissioners the Massachusetts Library Association they do a a superior job of informing and advocating uh for state aid to public library increased as um ac across the state the legislators do understand the importance of of this fund uh to public libraries again across the state um Mindy and Joe are exceptional Advocates and partners in this um and but of course always cuts Kar and and like I said that's why it's important for the library to have so many different uh buckets and and and Reserves I think I think those are all your questions well we to take more we did have a few questions other questions um we it was more um in terms of the um the uh climate goals and um sustainability and um opportunities to share equipment and you know there there were some questions that were related to the uh Town manager goals uh that um we wanted you to see if you had any any additional things to talk about related to those uh related to sustainability so that would be that's the building project um and so uh we're working on plans to right uh see that through other other than that no that's that is our primary focus right now okay the elimination of fossil fuels okay do you have any uh other any um grant opportunities other than you know for for building for is for any grant opportunities for uh for uh you know sustainability Investments that that aren't related to the renovation or the rebuilding of the library uh I don't know uh that's where 150% of our efforts are are so okay okay I'm going to open it up to the committee for other questions I can't see everyone so Sharon if you could stop sharing oh yes absolutely actually I'm see Kathy uh yeah on it might be that she needs to keep sharing but on the um expense table that you showed us Sharon and I apologize I didn't get my questions into Bob and Athena in advance so that you could um respond to them um the FY 25 budget has a substantial decrease in three lines maintenance utilities and programming and I'm assuming that's the assumption that you're you're moving to a rental place um as opposed to staying in the building if that doesn't happen um you know so I it's a two-part question it's it's it's about $120,000 of expenses that you're not expecting to incur that leads you to your bottom line if I'm reading it correctly um compared to uh FY 24 budget um both if that doesn't occur what happens and if we look forward to a year you know another year FY 26 where we'll be back to uh the operations maintenance repairs utilities budget what happens then in terms of your thinking of of the people programming we didn't ask you for a multiple year budget but I'm just looking forward to when the library is back online because it it it I'll stop there and so the one other one is the the friends there are a few that are lower than they were in the past friends is one that's quite a bit low so it looks like the fund rising from Friends has gone down um so that's just you might want to talk about that so the I understood your first and your third question I didn't understand your second but we'll get back to it so the uh your first question um so when when the trustees approved this budget it it was assuming we would be out of the Jones library for the full fiscal year so I uh we will definitely have to create an adjusted budget um but I'm not expecting it to um to change the bottom line um and you know the municipal appropriation is what it is the endowment draw is what it is state aid is what it is um and so we work within um whatever the revenues are so I think that was the first question the third question was the friends so um because of the building project uh the uh annual so we're we're running two campaigns at the same time the capital campaign and the annual fund and and this is true even for me I'm contributing less for the annual fund because I'm giving uh to the capital campaign and and that is pretty normal in in in towns for libraries that are running large Capital campaigns at the same time uh so that we believe that is why there's less annual fund money coming in from the friends um but it doesn't necessar it just means when we were putting this budget together I wanted to be as conservative as possible because there are so many unknown so this was even when we were going to be in a different space um the utilities for example uh it was it uh it was based off of you know UMass gave me some of their uh expenses over the past year and it it doesn't it's it's a lot of educated guessing um and so so you all know crafting these budgets a year and a half in advance is difficult um and which leads me into I think where you were trying to go with your second question which is you could ask me to go out two years but I it would not be a reliable uh budget at all um yeah it it would yeah it just would and the reason I asked about this you know out two years is I'm just looking at the um you know an operation several of the budgets you're assuming will go down a lot in the year and my understanding and I might be wrong is you're you had some money in the larger project for paying rent to moving to another place so you've got a drop in utility you've got a drop in maintenance because you're not in the current building so if I take it out a year those costs come back online and interact with Bob's original question of there's only going to be so much of an increase in the town allocation so are you going to be does does the way you're funding it all work if you go out a year and what you're saying is it that's too far in advance for you to think about it you know and it's not that I'm not thinking about it um it's always it it's always there but I I believe it would be not a good use of people's time to put numbers down that I really believe would not be something that you could rely on and it was just that it's $120,000 Less in FY 25 than than FY 24 from those three items so it's it's not a small amount of money if you say okay that's going to come back in so it's it's just worth thinking about it and I don't I know you're in this limbo land right now on are you moving out of the building um so um I think I think that's it and then the friends you're if you're hoping it comes back up I mean I actually a couple years ago asked if you thought you would sustain friends while you're doing the building project and you said it wasn't going to be a problem because I thought it but I think it is a problem the same way you're saying you know that you don't give to the annual fund if you're giving to the building fund you don't necessarily keep the strain up so are you thinking that that's going to come back up to where it was in the past um and you're probably going to say you don't know but yeah people you know I can use myself as an example yeah when the capital campaign is is paid off then I will go back to giving my money for the annual fund you know the the the town values Library services and and honestly most Town's people most community members they're not they're not paying attention to the building project and the and the the nooks and crannies that you all are paying attention to um they are they support the library and and to them you know it's programming and and Staffing that's why they're coming um and so they'll they'll continue to give but you you've got programming down substantially about a third lower than where you have been and is that again because you're thinking you're going to be doing online programming as opposed to in a building no so as I said before I was going super conservative uh if if we end up raising more money and staff have the time then awesome you know we We'll add more programming but I I didn't want to make those kinds of promises and then you know a year later when we do the actuals for everybody to say well what happened Sharon honestly uh being in an interim space is extremely complicated uh nerve-wracking for staff staff are spending a lot of time thinking about all the different um all the different things that it takes to move 100 Years of of services to a different space that's much much smaller um a and and programming kind of has to take a backseat for a little while so that's why we reduced the programming figures but again if if money should should flow and and staff are like oh here's a once- in a-lifetime opportunity then we'll go for it thank you any other questions okay well thank you Sharon no counc hanii yeah um this question I'm be asking to a number of different department and the manager and all um and so it doesn't specifically apply to just the Jones library but when I look across departments particularly Recreation Senior Services Dei and Jones um we seem to have a number of departments that are planning events and activities for Town residents potentially for the same town residents but different activities in different departments and you know Recreation does the Fourth of July thing and they also do a lot of Youth but they also do a lot of adult type programming um Dei is doing a lot of cultural events uh the library does some of the cultural events and does some other programming for Youth and this and that um is there ways to make all of that more efficient combine resources to either expand services for similar cost you know because you're not doing the same thing duplica Lively sort of and have you ever talk to those departments about the possibility of working together particularly if the library is moving to continue sort of similar programming but through a different department because they've already got that ability and are working on very similar things already how does all of that programming amongst Town departments work from your persp perspective and is there ways to create efficiencies to save money or create efficiencies to expand services so what I've seen in in the 12 years that I've been here is a greater departmental collaborations um it's awesome and it's been one of the benefits I believe of us moving out and not having programming space is it is forcing staff to strengthen these um inter these collaborations even more um so for example we were going to work with wreck in the schools and our summer reading program was going to happen at the school department as part of uh camps the the the um Rex summer camp um wreck has been fabulous our ever since the Dei and Crest departments were created we've um we've been like this and um so I don't think I don't think we're duplicating I think we are beautifully you know for example recck does Fourth of July we can't do Fourth of July we could do a story time on the common during fourth of July and so it's like we all just know what historically programs have happened and we link up and see how we can add to it um and as new programs are created then we have found that people just reach out to the library and and um it's really awesome we we genuinely have the best colleagues in the world so so again I'm not seeing extra money being spent like I don't see us doing a story time and wreck doing a story time and Dei doing a story time it we're all handing in together what we're good at I guess thanks thank you okay any other questions well for the second time sh Sharon thank you for for being with us and uh for answering our questions and uh we'll move on to the next part of our agenda so next I believe we have Dei if I'm correct is that correct yes yes Dei is next Pamela hello everyone hi did you want to say anything to start start with I did not prepare um any statement that there was not a a huge ask from Dei where my focus over the last six months has really been on working with h the crest department and trying to help with their planning so um I can give you an a brief overview about what our hopes are for next year if that would be helpful I think so sure so my first hope is to hire someone in as the assistant director since I'm now a department of one um with three events between um today and the end of June to to complete um and uh we've I've had some conversation with the town manager and hope to have that position posted uh early next week um the main sort of programming initiatives for the Department have centered around um workshops for both the public um and town residents as well as for staff so um the department hosts a monthly Dei workshop for staff that's staff only um that's done intentionally so that staff members will have an opportunity to learn about the various Dei topics um in a setting that feels uh more comfortable in addition to that we have um start started and um our now our guest will be on our third event coming up um later in the summer uh becoming Beloved Community it's a series of uh topics that are open to the general public we start the started that program with the national day of racial healing in January that follows the Martin Luther King holiday um we most recently had a workshop on microaggressions and implicit bias the next one that's uh coming up in July will be on um Ally ship um and so that Series has a more public face in addition to that um the department has as a goal providing workshops and trainings for each department that are Department specific I have to be honest and tell you that that did not happen um very much this year simply because my time was spent working as part of the interm leadership team and so we focused on the broader workshops that were for staff and forego the more specific ones from the from the Department in addition to that um as you know the department supports um four different boards so the Human Rights Commission the disability access and advisory commission Jennifer was also supporting the menson um trustees and then the community safety and social justice commission okay thank you did uh anyone have questions for pamel uh councelor haniki yeah so this was one of the general government sections that I reviewed um and sent in some questions my questions for um specifically related to Dei that are more for um our director versus Our Town manager um relate to three of the Town manager goals um as well as the question I just asked our library director about the the the combination of services although that one was not sent in early um but I'd love to hear so so two about budgeting strategies related to using a racial and social justice lens when making decisions and um how the budgeting strategy supports the work of the town in repairing the damage to structural racism those are two of our manager goals so that that's sort of one question there another question is one of the manager goals is to begin identifying and proposing revisions to policies bylaws regulations to dismantle structural racism um and I'm curious how this budget for Dei supports doing that especially when in the dei's upcoming objectiv section which is sort of I I read as your goals for the next year um identifying those policies to begin doing that is not one of those upcoming objectives so I'd like you to speak to that manager goal and how the budget will help you start that goal and then the other one is that cross sort of Department workings when there seems to be a lot of departments that are doing scheduling planning hosting events and all and do you talk to Recreation and Senior Services about working together so that you're not sort of duplicating efforts or your things like that the same that that same question that was to the library director all right so I'm going to take the easy one first and actually start by um uh actually just talking about one of uh the recent events that we've had in the last year I think that's the best example to answer the collaboration that's occurring between the library wreck um and other departments so if you um had an opportunity to ex attend our spring festival or Lunar New Year event then you would have found that um that there were representatives from the recre Department there and that wre had created gift bags for children who attended and that there was a section during the event where the library had um created uh a lending library with books that were um appropriate and re relevant to the topic and so I agree with Sharon I think this is one area where um the various departments in town have worked collabor collaboratively together and that we're not duplicating uh efforts but we're actually enriching the efforts of each other by sharing events so I think you will see that um again with an upcoming event that we have um actually a week from Saturday we have a aapi so the Asian-American Pacific Islander event and we have assistance from Wreck and generally there's also a presence there from the library so I think um as Town departments we're working very well on those cultural again convinced to really enhance them um I'm sad to say I I'm hearing about the other two questions uh during this meeting they did not come to me in advance um but I do have a response for you uh I think the the major handicap to my ability to work with the town manager to reach those larger Dei goals is um a lack of Staffing in time right uh if my time and energy is spent on cultural events then that's less time and energy that I'm able to to spend on some of the bigger policy questions um and um as particularly in this past year it's been very difficult because I was leading the interm leadership team for Crest and trying to do work on this um in this department as well so um so that is definitely a challenge uh I want as sort of inw to say by saying that it's not as if those activities are not happening the best example that I can give you from the past year was that the human uh Rights Commission had set as its goal the revision of its bylaw um so that it does meet uh meet and reach for those larger goals and we're in the process of doing that and the disability access and advisory committee as well is looking to revise um its charge and take on a different legal status so there has been some movement but certainly um probably there is room and capacity for more thank you does anyone else have any other questions for pan okay I think we'll move on then uh Kathy it's a comment I just want to thank you um because I know you've had to step up the way you've just described to fill vacancies and work across and I watched the amount of hugging and other kinds of Kudos that came in and the meeting with a new Crest director so I think you've won the trust um and respect of multiple people both inside the town but across all our residents so thank you very much thank you okay he anyone else I apologize for the noise outside someone has just decided to blow the leaves outside um okay why don't we move to uh the next part of our presentation uh facilities not sure if either here is jeremi Jeremiah yes hello can you all hear me yes we can okay wonderful all right well um I I I suppose I didn't really prepare much for this um as far as presentation um like I typically do um uh but but essentially you know the goals the goals for um the facilities department is is to continue supporting um the facility and the town staff and Community um and and all of the different programmingsoftware um one of the questions that that was asked to me was uh about the north Hammer library and what the um uh Financial ass for expenses would look like I did share that out this morning I'm not sure if the committee was able to see that uh but essentially it kind it outlines uh the the anticipated expenses for the year now some of them uh are uh sort of a gen General more uh a little bit of guesswork and with the building being so fresh uh we we may not have uh that that information as of yet uh but I did my best to try to project those numbers U so this is what the yeah thank you atha this is this is what it looks like any questions Bob Mandy has a hand up you're muted Bob sorry I'm muted I sorry ah too many things going on uh coun hany okay so a couple questions I'll stick with this chart for now so this it from from what you just said this I believe is just the north amoris Library operating expenses for facilities and if so are is that already built into the town's budget facilities numbers and what is the difference between what the town was paying before to operate this building and now uh so the all all the expenses for the North and Library were being paid by uh the Jones Library so essentially these are new expenses for for us um so the the form that you're seeing here is is basically the additional uh requests so that this is me requesting that those funding to uh that that would end up getting built into um uh the facility's budget moving forward but but at since it's the first year um these are that's an additional ask can I is it in the fy2 budget then somewhere oh I hope so I I want to ensure that I'll have to get back to you on that but I I believe uh it was discussed when I met with um uh s Sandy and and some of the other leadership uh uh to discuss uh FY 25 budgets so I would have to confirm that okay I think I think Sandy can answer that question um that would be great if Sandy could hi everybody um we we put n [Music] 9,330 into the facility budget for the north ammer operating expenses those were the numbers that were uh asked of us back when we had our meetings this winter um I don't not sure what is different the numbers that are on the sheet you have in front of you but there was an additional $933 okay so that increase on page 110 of that change in the facilities maintenance operating expense line is specifically for North ammer Library okay because the ma again I I know how much pressure you were in the major components utilities description maybe for next year make a note to describe that that also includes the north ammer building now Library building because the utilities line talked about mson and bangs and North ammer school and south ammer campus but didn't mention the library just a note for next year some sort of note so that we know that it that building's also included in there would be very helpful yeah Mandy that's one one of the things that that we've discussed and and um identified that some of these the budget narratives um it it only included some portions of all of the facilities and you know like you say is over the years the the the the number of buildings keeps increasing and we want to be sure to capture that uh we are in other areas so we'll just we'll just continue to to show that we'll just transpose that more complete information onto that Kathy yeah I want to build on this set of questions for the scope of the buildings um so for months do we do the same thing for mson do we pay all the electric all the waste all the sewer and and the Jones pays none so that's been the past practice yes that's correct okay um so then my second question and I don't expect you to give me an answer but I I can get an answer later is when the community uses community space in either mson or the North and in the case of the north hamis Library there hasn't been any community space until now um I think you charge some fees do the fees get booked in a way that you can see how much of the cost of operating The Bu building is offset by fees is a question um for wherever those fees go and they may be um I Jeremiah when we were asking about rent renting par hour he said it's pretty nominal like $15 $20 an hour but but I I don't I don't know how that works um with Monson and I and we none of us know how it's going to work with North amers so it's do is there kind of a some of this cost is offset with fees there there should certainly be an offset um I I don't know what those figure figures are uh but but we are but you are right it's for for a nonprofit organization the the fee schedule is $15 per hour and I believe it's a little bit higher if it is not a nonprofit um we are in the process of uh updating the the booking systems and and uh essentially the the the process of um reserving and paying those fees so I think next year we we would be able to get that information much easier uh because we we are going to start using our open open gov software um so here this would this year I think would be a little bit more of a challenge but I could certainly find out that that information for you it's not it's not critical I was just thinking that internally there are some fees I see Paul's hand is up I on on this one so yeah so we do all the those fees come in and they're recorded accordingly to wherever they go they just go into the general fund so it's part of our revenue streams uh we don't do zero based budgeting by building on this or anything like that so um but and with the the thing that the Rob and Jeremiah and Our IT department put together for using open gov which are has been really successful for inspection services we're rolling that out for mson and for North ammer library and if that works well um you know we're still working through a bunch of things and who who you know decisions and stuff there's some in right now in fact um then we hope to expand that to the bangs and other and we do charge a nominal fee it's important to charge a nominal fee or some fee because otherwise people sign up and they don't need to show up so and we're looking at using this for the town common as well so there's a lot of opportunities if we can get it online that it becomes more transparent to the public people can see when it's available they can sign up we there are policies that have to go along with it because we prioritize town events um but in terms of the the revenues that generally will go just to the general fund as all our revenues too okay so can I just stand and I see Mandy's hand is up so the two other buildings when you went Mandy added North Amis library to the list of facilities but we've got the old North amoris School up here and then we have the um and South Amis that are listed as their storage facilities um um to the extent we have utility and maintenance costs for those um my question is a broader one Paul than than Jeremiah can answer it's at what point do is maintaining them for storage does it make sense and when do they move from being a storage facility to being a surplus property that or a potentially Surplus that we might want to use for other reuse in other ways um the north so I'll say in the the old one up it I see it on a daily basis because I drive that way but the north Amis School used to have a family center program as well as and I think it still has the um uh the snap some of the um I'm just blanking out the name but and it's and it I think it had a Head Start program that it's not going to have anymore so some of the space was being rented so going forward is that empty space um that we're looking at non- rented space yeah so on that one so we are in negotiation or discussions with um Head Start they don't need the they can't staff their head start Services they still have an office there I think it's for fuel assistance or something like that so it is still we're still getting revenue from that they're reducing they've asked to reduce the rent that's basically what they've asked because they're not using the space that's important space for us to maintain I'm sure we don't turn off the heat and water and things in that because of building but you know as we look at potential areas that where if we need swing space that's an important location for us um the South Hammer school I think the the utilities are turned off Jeremiah can answer that and want just mentioned that in on page 110 we do mention under significant change that the operating expenses increased to the north ammer Library Edition so that is mentioned in the actual budget document can you just the South Hammer School Jeremiah do we have utilities on there we we do it is very minimal uh so the electric uh remains on and that that just helps with some protections of the space um because even even though that the the building isn't occupied it we're still obligated to um maintain all the life safety equipment such as you know fire alarm system U spr sprinklers if there were um extinguishers so um I do need to have the electricity on um to to M maintain those Life Safety Systems uh but the rest of the the the system systems such as water uh have all been um weatherized or winterized so we're not we're not using any there thank you I'm finished thank you ccil hanii thank you and I apologize I missed that that small line in the significant changes so next year it should just bump up I guess into the major component so sorry about that um a couple other questions about facilities um there's an addition of a08 FTE in the facilities Personnel line um for fy2 so I'm curious what that addition is I think it might be the special projects manager but I just want to confirm um particularly since Sandy said there were no FTE additions other than in inspection services in this budget um so when I see one I I want to see sort of what they are and how they're being paid for and all um and sort of the long-term trend of of that FTE Edition solar installation on the landfill um I don't know how things work but where are the decreases in utilities within the Departments is that within this facilities budget that we haven't really you know this this operating expense line is actually higher um so so where do where is the savings from the landfill solar or any of the other sort of sustainability utility initiatives we've done where does that show up in the budget is a question um and how if there are actual savings how are they redistributed to any particular Department in terms of budgeting expenses and all um and similar with that gas and oil usage is down within this facility's budget when you look at the page 111 um in electric is increasing is that a result of sustainability initiatives and switching things out like I believe mson was just switched out from an oilbased system HVAC system to an electric based system is is that why we're seeing that change within those kilowatt hours and actual usage of utilities um those are my questions so I can answer some but why don't you start Jeremiah because you can answer the more detailed ones sure um so I guess working working backwards through the questions uh the the chain uh the increase in electric uh and the decrease in the fossil fuel usage is a result of electrifying um some of the buildings and uh just REM removing some those systems um North Hammer School uh all the ground level that was uh completely um uh all the fossil fuels equipment was removed and and it's now all um high efficiency heat pumps I also uh changed out uh a number of hot water heaters and did a hybrid heat pump hot water heaters as well um not sure where you're going to Jumping Paul but as far as the landfill I I can't necessarily speak on to how how that uh that's um how that money is coming I can address that I can address that so on the landfill when we started to get the credits uh Shan meano basically went through all the utility bills of the different departments and started to apply The Credits based on um you know based on the the use of the electricity by department and we just had to make a call you know eversource was saying where do you want us to apply these credits and he just went through and made a decision on where those go I think one of the reasons for that one was that if you look at our budget operating expenses have not in are not increasing very much at all if at all and hardly anything and that's one of the plaints you may hear from our department heads is that we're our expenses are going up and you're asking us to do more so if there any cost savings based on utility savings electricity savings or anything like that we want them to experience the benefit of that in terms of their operating budgets because everything they're buying is costing more um but we're not giving them more money to to pay for salt or fuel or whatever it is that they're that they're getting uh and then in terms of the other question about yes the um the so Bob parin is the current staff person who's being paid out of arpa um he's on we can we're allow excuse me allowed to pay him through December 31st he has been such an important part of our uh team and he's willing to continue to serve so we felt it was a priority to include that he works part-time um so it's not a full-time position um so including him into our budget we wanted to make that start to begin get that transition for that position so it's a six months of a part-time position is what that reflects thank you and so I I just for my own brain all of those utility expenses that are savings aren't necessarily showing up in the facilities maintenance operating expense line per se they're more sort of hidden in the budget because I and I had noticed like Dei and and town clerks and all of these those their operating expense lines are almost always the year a lot more even like level spending and that's sort of how you're incorporating the solar savings into the budget is sort of a level spending on operating expense lines in various departments well we had to apply it to uh departments that had um electricity in their budgets so Dei doesn't have electricity in their budget those um but you know DPW does a police facility and Jeremiah's got a lot of different facilities that have it so he has man most of them acre to um to to facilities thanks Bernie um as we look at these budgets and we think about inflation we have to keep I think two things in mind one the fact that the rate of inflation is dropping doesn't mean that things are getting cheaper it just means that expenses are going up as fast that's one and two we look at the Consumer Price Index and then you probably can add a point or two onto that for cities and towns because a lot of the stuff we buy is not the same stuff that households buy and a lot of the stuff we buy is more expensive so if we're um looking at budgets that are keeping operating costs at at a increases at a minimum um we're also we're we're fighting those inflation factors as well so I just want um want to just raise that as a point thank you Kathy um the discussion on the solar and how you've allocated Paul um I think it it may be already in the the budget book and I just didn't see it but I think it's a very good news story and if and in a like we saved this much money money in electric cost because we got x amount from solar um from on the landfill and I don't remember seeing that so it it would be just useful to have it as and I'm not saying add something to the budget book but maybe in a presentation to the town or something because it to the extent um you know we're we're going to see it embedded in the new school because we're expecting it to offset all the electric so you'll see uh for El cost you'll see a near zero line in it but that's not because the old electric School uses no so it's just a way of quantifying for people that we've invested in something that we're getting a long-term payoff is I think I can our I think I can ask ACC accounting to dig into that just a really good point you're right it's a good thing to have yeah yeah thank you any other questions for Jeremiah all right I think we'll move on then thank you Jeremiah thank you next is Town manager budget correct yes did you wanna have a presentation brief presentation or would you just prefer to jump into the questions I want to just recognize Angela Mills here who's front center for this as well ours is pretty um basic I don't think there I'm open to questionss you may have um Bob just a quick note um we specifically didn't ask departments to do presentations so I think the question is sometimes alarming to our department heads who are attending going oh no I was told I don't need to do that so just so we don't give anybody else a heart attack yeah yeah I'm sorry I should I I know that the case and I should have H stated that earlier but thank you uh councelor hanii do you have questions so yeah again I was the one that reviewed all of the general government section of this budget which includes more than just the manager subsection and and all so so I apologize Paul that some of these questions are to other departments but I think they're not specific enough that they're they're sort of higher level that that you or Angela will probably be able to handle them um the the first is um the I noticed in reviewing the general government section that throughout the various departments the Personnel Services had a large mean increase of about 9% anywhere from a Personnel Services around 4 to 17 or 18 depending on on various different things going on in the Departments uh my concern is not necessarily ooh that department was 20% oh dear my concern is overall it's well above 4% um and is this something that is manageable year over-year when we're expecting not just next year but but FY 26 and 27 to have maybe a 2 and a half% overall increase um so so could you just address that yeah no you put your fingers on something that's that's we're hyperconscious of and it's going to be a challenge because as we all know labor costs are increasing collective bargaining agreements just like the schools are um above two and a half percent U we're managing that and trying to do two things one is make sure employees are are being paid at an equitable rate and recognizing inflation but also in insinuating into our contracts some long-term savings so in terms of Step increases and things like that so we're trying to make that um smaller step increases I'll say and so that's been a challenge for us that we've been really working through um Union contract by Union contract as you may know um last year it was a goal of the council as as was mine to do a compensation classification study um which we which we did do we had an outside firm come in it took a pretty long time to get done um it actually spanned um a couple fiscal years um but that we were trying to build this budget to incorporate the recommendations from that into this budget so we could stay within our allocation of 4% going forward and accommodate those budget adjustments that were required um based on the compensation and classification study so I think we're successful in doing that um and I think that our employees were uh generally um I won't say pleased no one's ever pleased I say um we we had a process where if um people were unhappy with the decisions made about their role that could appeal to the uh Personnel Board um and I'd have to talk to Melissa to see if any that was out a process outside my perview so I'm not sure if if who if anybody went and took advantage of that um request you appeal process uh councelor H did you have a response to this or uh no just other questions I don't know whether you want me to group them or or Andy can go next is fine too I was just going to call on Andy because he has his hand up Andy um my question had to do with Communications manager which you list as one of the major components of your um offices uh Personnel expenses and that's a position U the person who had been in it fulltime has had left and uh has that been U is there anybody working in that in in in the current time and when do you expect that to be filled how does that affect the budget well if and you don't see all the hats that Angela has but she is this is something that she has taken on but she's also we had a really good team interviewing and Angel you can update on where we are with the interview where we are on that process for replacing Brianna so over the past month and a half we've had um a huge applicant pool we were really lucky to have lots of qualified people apply we are hoping have finalists sit with Paul in the next 5 to 10 days so we've narrowed it down to two finalists and the search committee was excellent it was Serge fosi from it Lindsay Carroll from APD and our health director Kiko M who helped out with all of the interviews so you would expect that the position is going to be filled for the fiscal year or and that therefore it's in it's covered in the budget absolutely thank you Council hanii um a couple more questions from the questions I sent over um HR has an ad of a 0.56 FTE can you talk about what that's for um let's see Sandy I think uh I don't really remember what that was um off the top of my head do you remember what that was Sandy they is it CH make up for the HR piece that Jen so we're we're taking the HR piece out of the um Dei director so when when Jen moist Jen moyon used to be halftime with the T with Town manager and halftime with HR when she moved over to D EI she took out the town manager part but kept a portion of the HR piece we don't and that was just because she had experience and was really good at at that work um where were're recruiting for the new assistant director for diverse Dei we're not putting in the hrps there's going to be a recruitment piece part of it but it's not going to be directly related to HR where she was actually doing tasks for the HR um so if if that's the case then are you essentially by pulling her halftime out of the Dei side adding a halftime position somewhere in this budget I.E in HR or or because Dei didn't show an increase in ftes it's just a job description change right I think we I I don't have a ready answer for you on that one Mandy Jo will have to look it up I'll mark it for later un unless Andy knows um my other another question I have's trying to speak he can't find Theon I think s got too many screens going on yeah I know and what I'm gonna say is I don't know the answer Holly did the um these charts the personel Cuts yeah and um she's not here today or next week so when she gets back uh we can have somebody follow up on that um it was not a I'm looking at my sheet of um department head requests so it's not here as a dollar request so it must have been something else but I just don't know what it was following up is fine I'll mark it on my follow-up list um one of the manager well one of our financial guidelines is that the budget supports expense reductions strategies and initiatives and there's a whole bunch listed but my question is I have two questions under this do the service fees in the clerks and assessor's office charge that that the service fees that are charged do they tend to cover the cost of the service being provided um when was the last time sort of we looked at particularly within the general government section of fees the fees being charged there and the other one is are there other opportunities for regionalization organizational change Etc within the government General government budget sections to support expense reductions so as part of our budget process every department head has to come in and review their fees and so it's done annually um we did do a bunch of fee adjustments for the town clerk not too long ago um and um so I think that but we don't really do an accounting of how much does it cost to issue um you know a marriage certificate versus the staff that's I mean that level of detail we just don't get into we could do it obviously but um our goal is just make sure that we're at market conditions for in terms of charging what we charge for for services that we offer um and um oh regionalization you know um I think Bernie addressed this before it's it we always look at it we're looking at different things but it it it always presents a lot of challenges we do especially with water and sewer we've done a lot of regionalization in terms of we've offered services to other communities who are in need for for certain licensed positions and they compensate us for that um you know we talked with Hadley about some of the equipment but you know that that they were seeking and it's always you know um if it's a street sweep or whatever everybody wants it at the exact same time in the spring um and it just the challenges of managing that just becomes overly complex especially when you're dealing we see it already when you're dealing with a very small town versus a large larger town that has needs um but I did you know we I when I talked with the Town Administrator in Hadley we talked about senior services and are there are there is there a duplication of efforts because people can go to either Senior Center and you know we can work better on that and encouraging our senior center directors to work closer together um there are few other things that we had discussed as put and there obviously on a lot of water and sewer things were at that level were you know a very good conversation going on with a lot of our neighbors um we provide a lot of services to our our many of our neighbors like um um belter toown and pelum and Leverett for our the services that we already offer which is water and sewer um so but in terms of like day-to-day operation oh and we also uh I'm not sure if we do it now we were we were providing assessor services to town of pelum there you know pelum has very it's a very small budget and we have staff who may have excess capacity and they pay us a little bit of money and we provide the services for them thanks uh Sandy you're unmuted already s you're [Laughter] unmuted if you look at the um Personnel tables in the budget there's an explanation of the change in the um HR and that is that this was a position that was listed as part-time and part-time staff are not listed in the Personnel table we list full-time people and what happened is uh it came to be realized that that part-time person was actually working enough hours to be benefit eligible so then that person who had been part-time became enough of a of an FTE to Merit being listed in the Personnel table so was somebody was already there it was just um she hadn't been I think it's a she hadn't been hadn't been getting benefits and then we realized that she was working enough so she was benefit eligible and that's why she's listed thank you thanks Kathy um Paul I just want I you made a quick statement that seniors can go to either Senior Center that we could go to the Hadley Center I was not aware of that I think it's excellent so to the extent that could be aware they they had a and I'm just going to cite one example of where this is very good news because they they had an arrangement with um a company that came and did free shredding and and you could just come and get up to five boxes of stuff and we actually brought our stuff over there and I was waiting for someone to ask me to be show that I was it was at the senior center you know evidence and nobody asked me of who I W it was you know I had M but I think that sounds like that that if one of the other arranges it extra Services um so I just wonder what that Arrangement is I thought it was I think it's great if we can and Bernie's G to weigh on this I'm sure it's not an arrangement it's it's it's it's everywhere so even at this morning at the cup of joe we had someone who was from the town of Hadley who says I like your senior center better so I'm over here and I decided get the coffee or offering and had some suggestions for us about all vaccinations and all kinds of things but she said I'm a handly resident because I needed all one floor um but yeah I know you know other people use it Bernie I assume you're GNA weigh on yeah any um for senior centers and for libraries um yeah the state aid to the senior centers the state aid to libraries ensure that um anybody can come in and use them so there's interchangeability there uh I I did have uh I did have a question and it's it's unfair because I didn't submit this in advance but I'm curious about uh you know my concern is always that we're uh we do a lot um and I'm always concerned about the level of Staffing and my concern and my question would be and if you can't answer it please get back to us is how many vacancies are we carrying right now yeah I I don't know that answer um I think we're pretty cut up on a lot of them with fire and police especially um DPW I think they're pretty solid actually within General government yeah I mean I think we do a pretty good job of it's tough recruiting firefighters it's tough recruiting police officers it'll be difficult filling the any vacancies c those services but I'm concerned about I'm concerned about General government I'm concerned about town hall yeah and how much stress there is and pressure on folks sure so assistant Dei is a new one um but we're already talking some candidates who are interested that um Michelle matuso res retired from police but then we have an internal candidate who's going to be moving over there which creates an internal vacancy in planning department which planning lost their planner to become planning director in East Long Meadow I think it was so there's lots of recruitment going on planning's been a hard one for us getting qualified planners to apply um first floor tends their customer service desk tends to go through you know we've gone through a number of people there but Town Hall generally it all the all of our major departments are pretty stable people once they're here they they like working for the town um Angela do you have any insight into that you're way more involved in that stuff um I've been impressed with the speed of our HR Director to post things and to get the ball rolling on on search committees so I feel like what you're alluding to Bernie is something that we talk about internally and we try not to talk about externally well I'm I'm I'm sorry I'm not you know this is something that's that's always concerned me both professionally and as a member of the finance committee um we we compete with private sector and that's always been a challenge especially in certain like skilled Department like like the planning department uh the other thing that's been happening is and this was a subject of an icma U white paper the cost of college is pricing a lot of people who might have otherwise come and worked for a little less money but a little more job security in Municipal uh and state positions uh they're being priced out because they they've got those tuition payments to carry so um you know I'm not gonna flog this anymore than I than I have but what happens um what happens inside town hall is are critical functions to our success as an organization and that's that's my concern uh I you know I don't look at the folks who work in town hall simple functionaries they key people performing key roles that underpin the operation of the whole community so if we're having trouble recruiting and again thanks to the uh the Personnel study you may find that you you know more pressure you may find yourself having to adjust uh salary that's that's my ongoing concern and um you know at some point I won't be on the finance committee and you guys won't be hearing from me on this but while I'm here I'm gonna do it but the the one game the one that was most significant this is not just in our community but a lot of different colleagues you may have heard about as well Bernie is that the state has pretty much gone to 100% remote um and talked to actually somebody at the state on Monday about this and that's really opened up jobs to people who otherwise would not be engaging in going to Boston or something like that because they can work 100% remotely and I think that that I know for communications director that was an opportunity that she couldn't pass up because they pay better than they than we do um if if it required attendance at a different location she probably would have stayed with the town but um you know you you bless people for taking on you know they do what's best for their families so I think that and I think other communities like these outer line communities where people now are taking jobs the state and it happened with Mass DOT with some of our planners who went over to Mass DOT and so I think that's the big one of the bigger challenges for us Kathy um the one big one you didn't mention Paul when you went through vacancies as Finance director and it's probably because Sandy is sitting here and we think we've got one well and we know we have one but we we we so um I can you yeah so you know sy's been explicitly clear I mean so grateful I we were talking about last week just how much stabil how he stabilized everything by being here so but he's been pretty clear about I'm leaving thank you enjoy my time most of the time um so we we've been recruiting for finance we've done a lot of challenge we've had gone through a couple interviews um we have another interviewer or two scheduled for Monday I think it is um Angela and so um hopefully this will be a strong candidate and we can move forward with that and that'll come to the council and I and I'm wondering I mean I don't need an answer now but this notion that the state went remote um to the extent I know you were allowing some flexibility with some jobs to be remote from home someday certainly when we came out of Zoom I don't know whether that makes a tough job like find don't know what which jobs that appeals to people they want to live in our area yeah yeah so I mean when we came out of Co you know we are an inperson operation our we are the biggest building in the center of town our people have to be here the residents expect us to be here and we expect to be supporting restaurants and things like that um that being said the labor market has changed people are expecting to have U remote work and you know we are able to retain key employees some on this call because we're able to accommodate remote work um that's and we you know we're trying to build that into our actual recruitment process and opening up that conversation with anybody we hire in terms of what what are the expectations what are the needs um it's really on a department by Department basis the way we manage it it's up to the department heads to determine who can be work remotely clearly DPW and police and fire don't really have the option um but other departments do but I find There's real value in in person being in person so yeah as someone who's personally worked both remotely and in person uh in person in the early part of my career remotely in the later part of my career it was very important early on that I got to know people they got to know me and then once I went remote I could pick up the phone everyone knew who they were talking to and we we had a relationship so it is important that you know when people first start in an organization they're not remote and then after some period of time it gets easier to become remote so it's just been my personal experience any other questions okay let's move on to overall budget [Music] questions uh Mandy Joe did you uh or councelor hanii did you uh run questions for this um I I have a couple of questions um they're they're more of a much more General sense or on some of the projections you had I'll start with the projections and the multi-year projection um the F you you gave a multi-year thank you for that that was part of our budget guidelines um and I know multi-year projections need to be conservative both on um expenses and revenue side and I think Sandy addressed this a little bit in the presentation on Monday about um you know how even with a projected two and a half increase of all four major sectors of municipal government schools Library Town um the revenues there's still at least a $500,000 deficit projection in all of your future year projections um some are much higher than that is so two questions related to that are you concerned that the deficit in those future years won't work itself out um when better projections are available like you know the schools are looking at a significant structural deficit with that 2 and a half% increase but but is ours sort of just as structural or is this a result of very conservative uh state aid budgeting and and you know Revenue increase budgeting and then on the other side higher expense budgeting because we don't know you know where they are with with insurance and stuff and is the the second question to that is is that 2 and a half% increase in each functional operating budget a sustainable given our contractual obligations which again you also somewhat touched on um and then an interesting thing within those projections the pilot line appeared to have a blip in the FY 25 it went up and then it came back down for 26 and 27 could you explain why the projection in 26 27 for Pilots is lower than the fy2 budget number um I will start answering their first question I'll have to look at Pilot to figure out what that was um the deficits in the future um I think are not unusual so seeing them there doesn't worry me too much in the in the size that they are with a 2 and a half% increase doesn't worry me too much um but I do think we need to think about what could make them disappear um I don't think um there's going to be huge increases in state aid so I would not look to that as a source um and um amers doesn't rely on one term like free cash to support its budget so that's not a source so that really leaves property taxes and local receipts um I I do think within property taxes as I mentioned the other night we've estimated a $650,000 increase for New Growth um in FY 24 we did the same thing and when New Growth actually came in it was over a million dollars so that would that $350,000 would get the deficit in FY 26 down to $100,000 and and that's you know and that would carry out into the future years so um I think keeping an eye on New Growth um is likely to be what brings the budget into balance in that over that period however there are also things that are not shown in the forecast um that could hurt so if our retirement assessment goes back up to six you know it's built in as 6% in this budget but if there's some compensation for the fact that it was so low in FY 25 that will be a bump uh and then there are all the possibilities of spending more than two and a half% even going to 3% I've prepared a bunch of scenarios like that that at some point I think a presentation to the finance committee Andor BCG would be appropriate and necessary um and I've talked to the leaders of the council and the finance committee about doing that and it's really just a matter of when it's convenient for people to schedule that but um I think that's a very important conversation that the town needs to have about what the consequence of spending and um Revenue choices are in the next few years so it's it's a big conversation so I don't want to go into it more today because it really does deserve its own meeting um and then on the pilot [Music] um let me see if I can quickly come up with what that was Paul I actually while I'm doing that I would say if you have other things you want to say um this might be a good time for you to talk while I'm looking because I know you have many important things to say on this issue no I think um the the that larger conversation what it looks like if we're at a two and a half percent or 3% and what it looks like at 4% or so it's gigantic difference it's that's why it's so important for the council and the finance committee and school committee in fact and others to recognize what a percent means um when you change something over time um it it mushrooms quickly um so the pilot me Joe was um an additional solar pilot of $35,000 that we put in the fy2 budget um I will say that there were then some questions about what we should project that pilot out to be in the future so it wasn't rolled into the future so that it's just that's why there's a difference okay so that's something that in future years might clarify itself and it might not go back down it might be there it might it's just that uncertainty okay thank you for that explanation and still why there's this 35 bump just for FY 24 okay are there any other questions uh Mandy Joe yeah sorry I've got a couple more I don't know if they're appropriate here or not um I guess this one's more of the next quote section of Revenue so I'll wait till you get to the revenue line on our agenda um but Capital stabilization for the elementary school when we were looking at the whole budget Capital stabilization is lower this year because when we authorized the elementary school borrowing you rightfully pulled it out into whatever the elementary school is the the the I guess the question is I know and it's maybe it's not appropriate for this conversation but who knows um the intention was that that 5 million would get reimbursed to Capital stabilization and we got additional State money um the site work came in under budget and so how what's the current plan for getting that 5 million back into the capital stabilization is it uh are we going to use the full borrowing capability so that Capital stabilization doesn't necessar like like where are we standing with getting that 5 million reimbursed to Capital stabilization and the plan for doing so Kathy I think you probably can answer this if you if you want me to Paul I can jump in go ahead um you know the the the when I originally proposed taking five it was with the knowledge that the um in inflation reduction act has a big direct credit to Municipal for both um Geo the geothermal the whole system and the solar so those those you get the year after you you you have to put the building in operation to get the credit you know so basically for the building you have to turn the lights on for the solar you have to turn the switch for solar um you and then and then you put it in so if you think of the the for for the building potentially we would be applying in them applying for them in FY 27 because the building will be opening in in September 26 so you could show by June 26 and so it's the following year and then solar is like which which fiscal year you can apply once it's operational and those will be in the neighborhood if we can get the full 30% those are in the neighborhood of nearly 5 million and I I'll just say an if on them because there's there's some questions on with new federal guidelines and explanations we're under I won't get too technical here you know we're we're there's a threshold for both of them of megawatt hours and you have to be if you're under that you don't have to have apprenticeship programs in the group that's in installing for you if you're over it you don't get the full 30% unless they're apprenticeship programs but we're under it for both of our systems the question is if they add the two systems together then are we over it for the buil the solar system and the so it's it's not as clear that we if they're not in the if they're in the same fiscal year so but the the shorter answer is we would get it the year after and I think the intention Paul was when we get those credits they go back into reserves we we're we recouping them into reserves they'd go back into the capital fund just so you know just on the land the early site came in under we don't know yet with the building right we I know we don't know what the building but but can I ask a followup say say the borrowing and I don't know the numbers but if our borrowing this is just for examples if our borrowing authorization for the override um or the the exclusion debt exclusion is is 50 million and we have 5 million so a total of 5 million from capital for a $55 million project again making up numbers here if the if the bid comes in at 53 million will is is the intention to still borrow the full 50 use three of capital and return the other two from Capital to to the capital stabilization so that you're only actually then need 3 million in reimbursements to really sort of make the capital stabilization hole or would you borrow only 48 million and use the full 5 million for Capital like I guess that's part of my question about this since we don't know but we got extra State money too right and so where what's the plan for that I hope that question is a little clear you know I'm turning that to Paul Paul and Sandy but it's also the bond thing because Sean had figured out we weren't going out for all of it at once in terms of then so that that answer is a more complicated one yeah so we met with Sandy and and Holly and bunch of us met with the bond rating agency Wednesday I think um and hoping for and I'm not I sure I don't want to speculate online but not expect our fundamentals are fun your numbers are your numbers right and our sort of basic uh wealth of our community Bas because the presence of a large student body just brings us down um and but I think we made a very strong pitch they they recognize that our fundamentals and our our management team is strong and all those things um but what and Kathy's right what we do is we borrow just as much as we need um then this borrowing um is just for a portion of what we're going to need and because we don't want to borrow in advance um and you know the less we can borrow we have the Bor we needed the borrowing authorization but doesn't mean we're gonna borrow the full amount sand that that's just say we don't know yet Mandy CH Bernie I was gonna say um ask that question after the ribbon cutting you you really don't know until the Project's over and and and done um and at what point do you have to borrow a full amount uh the other thing we have to keep in mind is November is coming and if there's a change in administration uh there's already been pledges to make all this green stuff go away um now I know that for the feds stuff that's in the pipeline can you know can last for a couple of years after after changes are made but uh we we need to we need to watch and see what happens on a a national level to before we can count on that absolutely count on that $5 million I just say the good news on that uh Bernie is the number of major industries that are drawing on that this is a a not just drawing on it in terms of the credit but it's we've spurred growth in Industries in the United States because because the you know so it it's a bigger group so when we double check there's other stuff that might disappear in Ira but they thought this one's going to hold because it's it's leaped us AC ahead of Europe in a pretty amazing way um so well let's let's let's just let's just hope um you know because um stupid is and stupid does and um we we uh we have to wait and see so any other questions on the uh overall budget okay we'll move on to our last topic which is the projected revenues uh does anyone want to start with questions or did we send questions in on that councilor haniki I didn't send it in but I just have one I'm pretty sure I know what Paul's gonna say to it and s's gonna say but I'm I ask it every year um House and Senate budgets are out Senate budget in some sense for General government and schools is better than both the house and the governor it matches the governor's 3% in ugga and it matches the House's 104 for Chapter 70 you know so so it it had some benefits from what we liked in in some of the both of them how does that affect um the planning for this budget or the spending I I I'm pretty sure the answer for this budget is it's not going to affect this one you're not going to update those those government numbers um is the potential revenue from that enough that you would consider supplemental budgets that we did I think two years ago um or maybe it was three years ago when we passed a supplemental because the government spending or you know government state state aid was much higher than than the budget um how does it potentially affect School library all all of that could could you just talk about about what what the plans this year are would we just basically take it in as extra money without budgeting it or yeah can you just talk about that I think it you have to wait and see so you're right about the numbers the Senate did pick the higher numbers what that really means when they get into conference committee remains to be seen you know it used to be that the house would always underfund UMass when Stan renberg was Senate President because they knew that he wanted UMass funded more so then they could get something so there's a lot of gamesmanship that goes on in these budgets to see what trade-offs there are um so given that we based the budget presented to the Council on the governor's budget and we haven't we didn't change it with the house budget we're not going to change it with the Senate budget we'll see what happens with the conference committee but by that time you should have finished your budget deliberations it could it there will be different things that will change toward the uh once we have final state aid numbers once we have final New Growth numbers and that typc could be that there will be some sort of amendments that could be presented to the council in the fall but since we don't know what those numbers are yet it's too early to say is that what you expected me to say yes but I thought I'd ask it anyway any other questions uh Kathy um it's it's a question or a comment um we're we we're at probably third quarter now of knowing what this fiscal year is and in the last several years we've uh generated a surplus beyond what we put on paper that we were generating um so as we close out this year the other things that's being projected I mean some of that is that new growth came in at X um or that we got interest earnings on Y where you know so was it tended to be more the revenue side than the expense side although on expense it was a little bit less um as we it's going to be not the timing isn't right for this budget but I would like to you know do in that same scenario world try to take a look at that next year because um or at the beginning of next year next fiscal year not calendar year because one of the things people who are in outside groups like the school committee they're saying well we if we're doing that why don't we just grab it initially you know thinking of building it into the expense line so making it clearer where that what the sources of that are um because I think we're budgetting appropriately and you already mentioned the new growth one we are um systematically each year underestimating if we took last year as the truth but we don't know this year what this year is going to be and I don't know the extent to which um the planning department knows they've just approved two major projects like when is the start and when is the end date we would get some wh ifs on new growth beyond the norm so I don't know whether that's possible or whether that's too risky to do it um and out two or three years is out two or three years I think it's impossible because we don't know what else will be but out one year is a little a little easier I'll say two things about that one don't forget that new growth relates back to last January 1 so if planning just approve something that won't be for New Growth until next year so um the other thing is the 650 number might be wrong but it does remind me of my favorite Dilbert cartoon where the spiky headed boss said Dilbert this estimate is wrong and dillbert says well you know he and he says get me a new estimate and he goes well I have an infinite number of numbers that are wrong sometimes you just have to pick one and my only other comment is on the scenarios I think um that it's excellent to know that you've got that because that is thinking about the next year if we're back on a two and a half% on each budget people need to you the we just did the library budget quickly but it was like can't begin to guess fy20 well you need to start thinking about FY 26 when you're already planning for fy2 you know in terms of not just the hope for um and school schools will be even more so um so yeah and I just want to weigh in just I know you'll be under pressure to be more aggressive on your projections for revenue and um and I think that our process has served the town well and has always round up with a positive result and we have a direct experience when the economy stopped it collapsed and all those projections stopped and we had to cut budgets and so I think we we don't have to go back to the depression we can go back three years and see what was the impact when the world stopped all of a sudden and that can happen again so I think being conservative because we had the resources because we had strong projections I think we were we survived as well as any any other community and so I think we just you know that's the dis when we talk about discipline blah blah blah it's it really is about um protecting our future not about satiating our appetite today I just want to say Paul I totally agree with that and so I just think in our report we need to emphasize that that I I think we're budgeting in a in a fiscally appropriate way when I years ago when I taught public budgeting and I said where we can find money after the fact is you tend to do the worst case un expenditures in terms on a little on the high side and a little on the low side where where it's uncertain on revenues because you can't raise your prices you're not you can't we're not a private sector firm because say the cost of cars is bigger than next year because of it um we don't have that so so we have to have you know with a little contingency in there so I think it's smart but I I just think people keep looking at it saying oh if we'd only known then we could have spent that money but then we wouldn't have had the money anyway if we had spent it so I think we just need to express that in our report to the council councilor hanii so this doesn't go to the fy2 proposed budget but the prior actuals and recap our budget any year we pass it plans to do and use the maximum allowable Levy in property taxes yet when we recap and when we do actuals there's always a small number around a 100,000 that is not used of that Levy can you explain how or how that happens I mean I'm sure it's a very simple explanation of something about like dividing and math but um how how is it that we don't use the whole thing that we've budgeted um it all has to do with you can't cut a penny in half you when you set the tax rate you have to set it to a penny and that means when you do the calculation of our maximum Levy that tax that theoretical tax rate will run out many decimal places but when you have to round it to two decimal places the difference usually ends up being about 100 or am's case last few years about $80,000 it's all just rounding and my followup then is how was that built into the expense line knowing that you know you've budgeted the full cut cap maximum Levy but you're probably not going to get that Levy where in is expenses since we're passing a balanced budget where in the expense line is that sort of fit in is it really is it is it on the um reserve for abatements and exemptions even though it's not really an abatement and exemption is it kind of built into that or how is it built into the expense balance the budget it all just gets figured in um to make so you just have to have enough Revenue so right now we've assumed we're going to get all of the tax revenue at some point that tax revenue number is actually going to be bigger because New Growth is going to come in so the fact that we then have to shrink it down a little bit means that we have enough taxes to cover things and then if there are other adjustments that we need to make um frankly I don't remember how ammer how we used to do it you have two choices you then can bring something you could you have three choices you can spend more money coming with a supplemental budget two you can lower something like your uh local receipts estimate to bring everything into balance or three you can spend more money in the sense by increasing the overlay we and I just don't and ammer has I I think has done supplementals in the last few years so probably just brought things into balance through that supplemental but in Arlington for example we always just adjusted the overlay to to bring it into balance so at the end it's it's all about the same you have to have a balanced budget that's what the recap is about um and then you just make these little adjustments here or there okay thank you any other questions any other issues that people want to bring up for future meetings or otherwise don't see anything I would just say Bob if I could interject for a second I'm not intending to uh attend all your meetings um partly I'll be away partly uh I think when you talked to departments they are going to do a good enough job of answering about their own budgets that you don't need me but I would say if as you go along there are specific questions that you want to ask um about the budget in a big way um let me know and I can either email back or show up at a a meeting um but generally I won't be here fair enough anyone else okay zero motion to adjourn so moved thank you second second I just want to tell everyone schools are next week I sent in questions Mandy sent me some but if you look at the elementary or Regional School you should send them to Bob and Athena just a reminder of what what's next Tuesday I second adjourn okay um I'll just go around uh councelor hanii hi I'm an I uh Andy Kathy yes uh Alicia yes Bernie wholeheartedly support and Matt Matt may be gone silence is consent yes all right we're adjourned at 1158 am thank you very much everyone thank you thank you have a good weekend thank you