all right go all right thank you so much all right hello everyone good evening happy Thursday and welcome to the July 18th go meeting um we are a small But Mighty crew today we do have a quorum and I'm going to go ahead and take roll make sure that the other committee members can hear um each other everyone can be heard and he all right let's start with Lynn griesar presentent thank you councelor Ryan I'm here all right excellent and we have heard Athena can hear us as well um so we are going to start with the what might uh we're going to start with public comment um so if folks would like to make public comment we don't currently have anyone in the attendees um so I will give it a moment just because it's 6:31 now and all right we're going to move on to what I believe is the longest running item for this particular go committee which is the non-voting finance Committee Member appointment recommendation to the Town Council so we had conducted these interviews I just closed my YouTube link because I did watch that meeting um we conducted these interviews on June 13th I believe um and so I want to appreciate the other members of the committee for um conducting those interviews while I was not able to be present um so we're going to start with discussion and then I'll ask each Committee Member to share uh who they would like to recommend for appointment um Lynn I'd like to just ask a clarifying question yes uh I believe we have two positions open one is a renewal and the other one is a position that's been open ever since Bob hegner came on the council so can we just clarify the length of terms for each of these positions um yes let me pull that up one moment please unless someone else knows it off the top of their head I'm pulling it up my my understanding would be that we would be filling the um hegner position for the part of his ter that's still to run yeah we would be also filling the um the other vacancy which is a two-year vacancy it's a a full position yes they're both vacancies um I think it's just an issue of um um the length and I think we're we're basically one is going to end in June 30 2025 the other's going to end in June 30 2026 um that I believe is correct uh 25 and 26 for the two um two vacancies yes so um one of the things that I think I heard was that Bernie was only looking for a one-year appointment but his is actually the renewal appointment correct I'm not sure that it works like a renewal appointment councilor Ryan do you have um there's no such thing as a renewal appointment um every time somebody every time there's a vacancy we we the field is open but there is in the guidance obviously a preference given to serving members but it's not it's not renewal um yeah so um Bernie in his statement to us um actually stated that he was applying for just one year to complete uh heger's term um I'm not sure that's really well I I thought that was useful information I'm not sure the committee is bound by that but since the U applicant um request did a one-year term and there is a one-year vacancy um it seems if he were to be considered that that would be but anyway that's that's where it came from as far as I know hegner me he actually requested it or he me he mentioned it in his statement yep thanks George I agree um these are and And to clarify they're two just separate appointments they're not it's not a a renewal um okay any other um uh comments based on the interviews or clarifying questions go ahead George well you know we're always grateful when people apply we all know how difficult it is to get um people to step forward and so the first thing we usually say is that we are grateful for the fact that we had um basically U four 1.5 but four applicants for two positions so we so that's that's a good thing um I felt in looking at the the four candidates who are currently before us that the two of them simply stood out um in for in in terms of experience and background and um knowledge of financial matters um they just stood out to me so that's yeah Lenn I agree um I was very grateful to have the three the three applicants and uh initially we did have four but one dropped out and um I will say that I would love to see Bernie back on uh finance committee uh the other two applicants are in very different ways very well qualified uh at this time I do have a preference and I'll state that when we get ready um I mean I think we we can be ready um I'm just confirming can you confirm with me who dropped out past the interviews no they dropped out before they dropped out that's thought okay right no one dropped out after the interiew okay sorry you had said we only had three applicants and she's yeah okay I I confused things no no no no you're fine I just I wanted to make sure I was desperately quick searching my email to make sure I hadn't missed something really important all right um so I don't necessarily have any other comments other than to Echo what George said I think that this was really it was great to have to to watch the the um applicants speak to their experience and their passion and I think it was really this is such a specific um it's it's such an important and kind of focused committee right there's uh there's expertise is really helpful as well as an eagerness to learn from the work of the committee um and so I was appreciative of the folks who put their names forward and I thought that they had a breadth of experiences um that they brought to the table which was which was great so we have I I made my little spreadsheet oh sorry hands are still up do you do you all have more no sorry all right so um does my spreadsheet look okay to folks we're missing re is not here all right so similar to what we did the last I guess my question is if we should take this in two rounds uh and do the one-year appointment and then the two-year appointment um or if we should do two people and and then vote after which one gets the one year and which one gets the two-year Let's do let's do the one year then the twoyear okay George do you have any other thoughts it's fine okay all right so we'll start with the one-year uh one-year appointment councelor Ryan would you like to list your preference for that appointment uh kuc okay I am also kubak Lynn kubak sorry I didn't mean to pre- click for you um okay so I'm prepared to make a motion okay I move that uh we recommend to the Town Council that Bernie kubak be appointed for a one-year term to the finance committee beginning IM beginning immediately right turn to end June 30 2025 thank you thank you George I will second that motion um and I'm going to call the vote councelor Ryan I Lynn I and I an i as well okay all right let's go to the reset and go to the two-year appointment um starting this time with Lynn Tom Porter okay George Porter okay and I was going to vote for Stephen Casey um so so this by 2 to one is a uh recommendation for Tom Porter um would anyone like to make a motion I'll make the motion I move that I move that we recommend Tom Avery Porter uh for a two-year ter to the Town Council for a two-year term to the finance committee beginning immediately and ending in June 2020 Jun 30 June 30th 26 okay is there a second second Brian all right thank you um and I'll call the vote I am an i councelor Ryan I and Lynn I okay all right I will um follow up with both the folks who were selected and the folks who were not selected um to let them know and I will prepare a memo to the council um this will be uh I believe on the council's next agenda which is on June on August 19 and so the actual letter of appointment it's it's really nice to let them know their names being forwarded the actual letter of appointment won't be until after that vote Yes I will let them know that in the letter and do we agree this is uh able to go on consent agenda [Music] um is that how we have done other the other appointments I don't see why not but okay if it's a unanimous recommendation then we could put it on consent y okay all right um thank you Athena for clarifying okay all right let's move to our next item on the agenda oh sorry I just want I just want to point out we do now have attendees yes okay yep um I will yeah so if we did not have any attendees when we first called for public comment so I will Athena is it okay if I do a second public comment yep okay so um we're going to hold for a period of public comment if any folks from the public who are in attendance would like to make public comment uh please raise your hand in zoom and we will call on you and bring you in to speak otherwise keep your hands down and we will move to the next item on our agenda okay all right so we are going to move to the next item on our agenda which is um oh my gosh I pulled up the wrong agenda and just had a mini heart attack uh which is the African Heritage reparation assembly successor committee charge Athena if you could bring in Michelle Miller and Dr shabaz oh I can do it right I think yep I can do it ha magic all right um so they should have received invitations awesome all right hello Michelle and Dr shabaz if you can hear us uh and you want to unmute and say hello hello hello hello all right great you can turn your camera on if you want to I think um and but you don't have to I want to just start by reading the motion that was uh that go is taking up today our our referral motion and then I'm going to turn it over to uh Dr spas and Michelle to give us an introduction before we start our discussion so the as a reminder to the committee the motion that we received was from the council was to refer the draft at emmer black reparations committee ABC charge recommended by the African Heritage reparation assembly to the governance organization and legislation committee with a report back to the Town Council by a date very long ago November 20th 2023 as a reminder part of why we are not getting to this until now is that the report was then sent out for a legal review uh and we received the legal review back about a month ago and so we put this on the agenda as as soon as possible um and then due to the the holiday snafu it got pushed so we are here now um and Michelle and Dr shabas if you'd like to share some comments uh to to orient us that would be great Dr shabaz you like to go first oh please go right ah here okay hi everyone uh George great to be uh in the go room with you again we started here a while back this um and also to you Lynn um and and nice to see you Anna and Athena um thank you for having us and uh I think uh when I met more recently maybe about a month and a half ago with Anna and Lynn and George we had an initial discussion about this and um it was Bob I think not George Bob Excuse me yes correct it was Bob um he was on the phone that's right um so we talked um from the finance perspective that's you know was Bob's uh piece and then about go and I thought that Anna had a really good suggestion about how to take the next step here um and the suggestion was that uh we consider or explore How uh g go would recommend potentially to the Town Council a body that would work to implement um the uh the report that the ahra uh submitted last fall so how would uh the council want to implement those recommendations uh there were some funding priorities as well as a variety of other sorts of Truth and Reconciliation recommendations and so I I think getting a body together that would take a a deeper look at the report and uh look at what we have in the bank account and look at the legal opinion and then uh and then provide some guidance to the Town Council about how we might start to move forward with some of the some of the recommendations in the report um so I I really that's the starting point in my mind um and I don't I Dr shabaz if you have something to add please do thank you uh only thing that I would add is to um since it has been such a long time um is just just as a reminder to note that um the whole process of reparations this whole effort at a local level um it's bigger than just the question of $2 million or whatever monies and trying to use some monies and spend some money um you know we understand that faces a a legal um uh and and legislative uh hurdle at the state level but this is really something there's more to it than that I think our report made clear it's more to it than just that one particular piece of it and sometimes I think we have perhaps overemphasized or the media has overemphasized that's only a piece this is a effort to respond to a resolution the council unanimously passed in 2020 recognizing the racialized harms the existence of systemic racism not only in society in general but here in ammer in particular and that reparations reparative Justice is a framework for trying to address that on an ongoing basis and not just to oh George Floyd happened so many years ago and you know it's all over and done and we move on no it's about how to address this on an ongoing basis so we've actually been going to the Northampton uh meetings and you know one of the things they're doing in their discussions is really prioritizing effort that can be made that don't involve money that don't involve the question of um declaring reparations of public purpose and getting around the uh the legal challenges that that might result but but other kinds of things such as what's been recommended in our report as well and that therefore the real issue is is to move forward with a successor body that can continue this framework for how we advise and uh uh uh the council and the town itself to continue to work on the problem of systemic racism that's pretty much all I wanted to add and thank you for your efforts to get to this today thank you thank you both very much and thank you I know this has been a lot of years of work for both of you and uh um I appreciate everything that has gone into it so as a reminder we are truly only talking about the charge for this committee um and we are not we are not getting into the other elements of the report um we're not talking about funding models in in this committee our job is to say what is is there going to be a successor body and if so what does it look like so we are trying to think about is this a standalone committee like was recommended in the report should it be um if if you read the carryover memo from Pat who chaired go last year uh she talked about how the go discussion was that um go discussed creating a separate committee or integrating the purpose into an existing committee so I'd like us to discuss that and uh the question of whether the charge as drafted results in the council approving all aspects of the report which we should discuss as well um and so we our job today is to look at the draft charge from the ahra report uh and it's on PDF page 111 if you'd like to to look there print page I don't know uh that can't be right yeah okay PDF page 111 of the draft report that was in the packet um and I have just copied it really quickly into a Word document so that we can start to to make some edits as we discussed today I'm going to start with the committee to see if there are any comments off the bat or questions off the bat before we begin no questions okay all right um so let's let's jump into it sorry I'm just trying to when I copied it over from the PDF it it didn't copyright so give me one second no one really truly no one has anything to say while I make these edits Lynn Yeah Anna I think you framed uh two of the critical issues um as you spoke earlier and that is do we need a full additional successor body or is there an existing body that could have this as part of their charge that's the one question I have no bias one way or the other in that but I think that's a critical question and it's a critical question because of just stretching staff so in and also just respecting people's times we just lost Amar okay I'll keep an eye on the audience okay and then the second question that you raised and that is that what is the council asking this committee to do is it um to embrace all of the recommendations of the report or are there certain recommendations that we would like the committee or the body to focus on and and so I just want to reinforce that I think those are critical discussions um and again I don't have a a a solution or you know a decision I just think we need to be very cognizant of those two questions thank you why don't we start with the first question before we jump into the charge because if the first question we decide that we Rec we would decide a recommendation of um having it be part of a standing committee then we wouldn't necessarily be discussing the charge in the same way so let's start with the idea of it being a standalone committee versus uh added to the charge of an existing committee Michelle or Dr shabaz do you have any thoughts on your preferences here I assume your preference would be an an a standalone committee given that you wrote The Charge for a standalone committee into your report um but I'd love to hear from you in terms of what you see as the benefits or uh challenges of having this be a standalone versus integrated into an existing committee's work thank you I'll I'll jump on on that one to say this that um respecting the the uh the question of everybody's time and what is the actual kind of time commitment involvement I don't uh believe that this would entail um weekly meetings uh in the way that the ah required ultimately to produce the report that that we produce uh I see this given the the larger uh structure of of how we've talked about um soliciting the input of the African-American Community the community that has been exposed to racialized harms uh that being something done on a perhaps an annual or or U twice a year basis and then on the basis of that input that information then the uh the successor body would go into action to uh to propose and to promulgate uh uh and prioritize certain recommendations that are coming from the African uh descent Community afroamerican African-American community and um and so I don't necessarily see it as something that would involve uh staff time or involve um even the the time of members of this committee on uh such an intense basis as what we experienced in the AHA um I I really think that it's a matter of um thinking about the larger structure method that we proposed which is uh that the um African-American community get involved in uh uh Pro uh presenting proposals uh and uh and and then though the successor body would take those proposals uh and and organize them and present them in a way uh uh and represent them uh based on what the community is saying represent them to the various committees it might have to go through if it involves money Finance if it involves um I don't know go or whatever it would be and then ultimately to the council itself so I see it as a a a much more limited undertaking than what we did over the uh the two years uh of the ah thank you Michelle anything to add I I agree with what Dr jabaz said and I'll just add that you know from my perspective um beginning to make reparations like that first benefit that goes out whether it's a community benefit or whatever it is it is I think will sort of set like it will sort of give us some good data for you know what it looks like it will give us a an exercise so to speak to go through for what it looks like um and it may mean that you know down the road another committee that does similar work would have all those you know would sort of have the implementation piece in its charge um but I think for right now just having a body if it's a task force or a or a or something that looks at the report and says okay it's been almost a year here's the report and how do we see now with this legal opinion and everything else um you know moving forward with this yep okay committee members oh Council Ry so I think um if the council really takes seriously what it has voted on in the past and if we take seriously um what has been presented to us in this extraordinary report um a body like this I think is essential to see that something happens um I can't even begin to think what standing committee we might send this to and maybe we could think of one but it would be simply another task added to what they're already doing and I think this is just too important and um the council I think has made clear its commitment to seeing this through so creating a body like this with this very specific charge and as Dr shabaz has pointed out there's a lot more to this than just trying to figure out how to distribute money and some of the legal issues that may or may not arise there's a great deal in this report that um can be and should be acted upon and having a body like this that is essentially charged with making sure that that happens and and working to see that that happens um I think is going to be really important so I would I would say it should be a standalone committee sorry the yawn hit me at the wrong time um I raised my hand because I agree with what George just said and what Michelle and Dr Shabad said as well I do not think this should be uh folded into the charge of another committee I think it needs to be a standalone I think that there's enough to do and enough specialized knowledge that we also want the folks who are interested in serving on this committee to be able to use their talents fully towards the charge of this committee there isn't another committee that it naturally fits into without kind of weirdly shoving it into something that people didn't already sign up for when they asked to be part of that committee um so I I agree it should be a standalone committee is uh committee members do does anyone dis I guess Lynn you're you're the only one who didn't share a specific do you disagree that it okay I don't disagree I just wanted to make sure we discussed it oh fully fully I just wanted to make sure there was consensus before I moved on right thank you okay so what I'm gonna pull up then is the draft charge and um Michelle if you can just take a quick glance to make sure I've C I copied and pasted correctly um and what we're going to do what I'd like to do is look at this together and we will treat it as if this were we're not looking for clarity consistency and action ability but I'd like us to go through this and look at it um and we will be marking it up with track changes to kind of make our our uh our recommendations here all right so it looks correct to answer thank you all right I thought I did it right but I just want to double check okay um any concerns with the top let's say one two three four five six seven seven lines councelor Ryan I do have some questions and we could just go through it line by line all right you're right you're right and um when we get to where I have a concern or where concern or you have a concern we can we can speak up all right any questions on the first line on the name okay any questions on the type sorry this should be this should be a separate line it's not that's a yeah that's a copy paste error on my part Lynn I want to come back to whether or not it's ongoing or a task force okay okay I don't I don't want to L in now I just want to come back to that yep you just going to hi make a little highlight so I remember all right um legal reference issues no appointing authority okay number of voting member oh councilor Ryan so it may just because I'm new to this particular charge into this process but is it five or is it seven or and if it is if it's either why is it either and is it not six I'm just Mich Michelle or Dr shabaz do you have an answer here that's a great question um I'll just say that we put this draft together at the very end of our work so um I'm appreciating that you're all going through this I think it's not six George just because of the it has to be like an odd number for voting purposes um and we talked about uh five or seven and not nine because nine can get and can feel like a lot in terms of schedules and getting people together um five can be tough like tonight because like you have a five member group and only three of you are here which is wonderful but so seven kind of seemed like a sweet spot uh so that if everybody's not there you still have a good you know group um but we we left it open for this body to make that decision okay counc around do you have a thought between the two yeah um and it's just a thought and and we'll see what U the rest of you think um nine definitely is a bad idea um I tend to think the smaller is better um and the town manager already has a large this is going to be his job to fill and I guess the question maybe for um our two visitors is are they confident that they can find without too difficulty seven community members um five is easier to find than seven um and I think five is perfectly adequate to the task of this uh body but um there are a lot of things that this body is going to be looking at and doing so um I can go either way um but we should decide um I guess my preference initially would be five just because I like smaller bodies um but if you think about what uh this body is going to be tasks withd doing if you think about the potential pool of candidates um and here I don't have any knowledge or expertise I'm hoping that that Dr spas or Michelle or someone can weigh in if they have any thoughts um I would lean toward five but I'm open to an argument that um no seven we can find seven people Paul can find seven people that will be you know not an issue and given the tasks of this body faces um seven is perhaps preferable to five so I'm just wondering answer a question um I'm just noting I think we lost Michelle I'll keep an eye on the audience if she comes back Dr shabbaz do you have any thoughts on that I I like the reasoning uh in favor of five um and uh for all the reasons given uh I think it's also again as I'm thinking about the the nature of the work um the the the five will uh five will be a good number to then divide up the work and and do the the kind of um be the kind of liazon to to different constituencies as needed um I just received a text from Michelle she lost connection and she'll be joining momentarily um I I'll raise my hand sorry I'm gonna raise my physical hand right now but um I agree you know I think coming in I was thinking seven would be great um but I think five might actually be stronger in the sense of it it gives a Nimble the ability to be nimble the ability to kind of move quickly through um sorry I'm just adding Michelle back in okay uh gives the ability for the group to move through the process that they need to move through quicker and I guess now I'm I'm you know as as the voices in my head are arguing with each other I'm wondering if quicker is not necessarily better right um so I I think I'm still on the fence but I do think five or seven I don't think nine Lynn do you have any thoughts on this if we can keep it smaller the better okay so I'm hearing at least two of us saying this and also Dr shabaz yes absolutely sorry I meant of the of the committee members okay um um non- voting members to be determined do we think that there should be non- voting members none okay I I'm inclined to agree councilor Ryan yeah um again unless I hear from those who've been thinking about this a lot more than I have um if they see a role for that um we have non- voting members on fincom um but that's a shorter thing um so unless someone has a case for why they want non- voting members and who they might be I would say that that that should not that should be zero the only thing that I can think of with non-voting members is really and I think we're going to get to this when and I think this is what Lynn was getting at with wanting to revisit standing if this group becomes tasked with something that is about um some of the recomend like certain recommendations in this report have implications for for example our local institutions of higher education if if this group were I'm getting way into hypotheticals but for right now I think that there's I don't see a role for a non-voting member however I could see down the road if there were um depending on which recommendations are prioritized and implemented uh I could see a role for a non-voting representative from one of the colleges or for something like that depending on where which recommendations are being implemented but right now I do not see um the need the benefit of a nonbing member Dr shabaz any thoughts on this oops sorry Michelle thought I added you you know one thing I will say is is that we uh in the years as a study commission study group um the we were very open and and uh to the input coming in from uh from various uh sectors I the the problem I would have with a non-voting member is that they they might have expertise or interest in a specific area but then that area might come up and be dealt with one month and and then you'd have 11 months where that person's um engagement with the work of the of the group wouldn't really be sustained so for example if we did have a an ammer College uh proposal or something we were working on once that got addressed and move moved forward then what happens to that person do they just kind of fall off start saying oh well this non-voting member who was appointed isn't isn't coming I I just think that um a lot of the the we will be very open I I suspect the group will be very open to to um uh inclusion from people on a on a situational basis to come in help out as they would help the group out and uh but that you I I can't think offhand any non-voting member that would be um engaged uh all year round um and and around all issues that's that makes that makes a lot of sense Lynn um in addition to that sometimes times people might think that non-voting members would be actually people who would be more involved in the delivery of something and therefore frankly they shouldn't be voting uh the other piece is that um and this this really for me comes down later on when we discuss the scope of what this committee is going to focus on and that is um if for example ammer college is an applicant then they clearly shouldn't be represented on the body anyway so I don't I think non- voting members in this case are not necessary right thank you councilor Ryan then the question becomes who appoints them so the way it stands at the moment would be Paul um right he's the appointing authority so that raises all host of questions and um so I think I think none is is the way to go all right great all right Liaisons so this says one Town Council Liaisons and one CSS JC or HRC liaison I think my initial thought on this is that no committee is guaranteed a council liaison and so while committees can request a council liaison they aren't guaranteed to get one and I think the other thing is and the question I have for you uh Michelle and Dr shabbaz is um are you seeking a liaison or are you seeking a non-voting council member who can speak in the meetings because liaison can't do that really they're supposed to sit in the audience only um so I just wanted to ask about the intention when this was written in um and then I think otherwise if it is truly liaison I would recommend taking it out uh revisit with me from your experience with the various kinds of uh committees that have uh leaon members MERS um what is the um what what are some thought points on how this can be beneficial to the work or or or or not is there uh I'm not I could perhaps best give you all some uh some feedback on it if I understood better for example um when you say uh of course in the work of this of the study commission um we we had counil uh then counselor Miller and uh as a full member able to speak able to vote uh in fact served as uh as the chair so um that was extraordinarily beneficial in the way that um she could um fleas on with the processes of town government and Town Council to to help us but um but I I guess so in some ways I would say yes it could be very beneficial to have uh a council member in in U as a liazon as a uh uh but I'm I'm open to thinking of that hearing your thoughts out loud on that being able to give feedback from there as whether I how I think it would work with what I think the work of this uh what we all felt the work of this body would be thank you let me try to clarify and then I'll go to councilor R I think what what I was asking I think is more what would you be seeking from a counselor in that moment um because Council Liaisons are extremely Limited in what they are able to do yeah if that makes sense yeah councilor Ryan did what well so here's where perhaps there is a place for non- voting members um what if under number what if you had under non voting members one town counselor and one um person from either CSA SJC or HRC and the point being that they would be appointed as part of the process of appointing the five voting members you would actually have seven members but two of them be non voting and um given the council's commitment to this from the very beginning and I assume the council's serious desire to see this see these actions realized um there might be agreement amongst the counselors to um have someone from the council as a non-voting member um that's something we'll have to discuss but what if we took this and put it under non-voting members um on to answer Dr shaz's question at least for the council um are essentially just supposed to be conveying information back and forth and answering simple questions um and I'm not sure that's really what um you all are looking for here I'm not sure that's what um the council wants either um so what if just suggesting what if we put this line under n two two there'd be two non- voting members one from the council and one from either cssh J or HRC I have a question then and um so if uh for example a counselor was listed a non-voting member how does that affect quum purposes then it would shouldn't affect it shouldn't affect the Quorum because they're not voting so you still would need three you need three people present to that's what I needed to understand thank you thank you then think that could be a very a very good answer you know there is one at least one counselor who was a part of the previous process would be great continuity don't want to speak for her as to whether this would be uh something she would want to take under her belt but but yeah something like that where uh if she was uh the one appointed took took that up um if she couldn't make meetings or whatever the case it wouldn't affect our Quorum that I think it would be would be fine and so a question for you Dr shabaz and for Michelle is what's the value added you see um and I think you do see it but I'd like to hear from you uh having uh say a counselor and or someone and someone from CSH SJC or HRC um hopefully attending on a regular basis what why do you think that's important how do you think that would improve the work of the committee and the effectiveness of the committee or do you I think you do but I'm just do you think so Michelle did you want to jump in first I've been talking then I'll I'll say this on it um and and particularly right now because what's floating in my head is is the uh the counselor who was with us for the previous uh two years of work I think it would be extraordinary in that more than just passing information back and forth they would really be able to engage with um you know uh aspects of the work itself and and be able to um uh for example if we're moving forward with efforts uh legislatively to um to get home rule Authority or or be part of a state level uh uh initiative that grants all municipalities that want to opt in for our reparations work to be covered then you know this would be something that if they wanted to that could be then very much a part of their committee activism their committee work uh as a counselor uh but um but again the um uh and so therefore as we would be uh crafing the work and and grappling with certain issues just home rule issue being just one example the uh the inclusion the input that a uh an active counselor um could have in those in those deliberations keeping us on track keeping us um you know in in in sync with the uh proper uh uh departments if it's legal or whatever that might be involved I would think could uh could be invaluable even though again if they can't attend if other things are are busy for them we doesn't affect our and we can keep going with the work but the door would be there for um for a counselor that would would want to be uh very directly involved in moving some of the work forward um as far as the uh HRC and the CSS JC we never got to a place where we could have those discussions directly with the those members of those bodies uh we had some interactions but um I I speak for myself now I've not had um the opportunity to really see and to discuss issues of where we may have overlap with HRC and we may have overlap with csjc and to what extent um does that perhaps suggest that we ought to have that kind of uh uh uh inclusion inclusion uh in the work in terms of someone uh being on our on our committee I'm open to it but um but it's uh but it's actually an area that I feel we we were signaling we wanted to Simply signal an openness to that to that uh uh possibility and uh but I don't know that I have a full sense of um the the appropriateness the beneficial how beneficial it could really be uh for that for that to uh to actually happen I'm gonna go to Lynn and then I consider my hand raised after Lynn thank you um I I want to clarify I never thought of Michelle as a liaison to ah I thought of her as a member of ah and in many ways the council decided to make an ex ception um because she had already been involved with it before she came on the council so it's never it's I wouldn't think of Michelle's role and I don't mean to speak about you in the third person Michelle please accept that that's okay I I don't think of your role as having been a liaison I think of your role as having been a full-blown member uh and you were counted in votes you were not uh you had voting rights Etc um there's always a fine line between putting a counselor on a committee and then the committee makes a recommendation that then comes to the council that they're a member of the body okay so I'm I'm of two minds on this um and liaison is is a much um it's it's a much oneoff roll it's not a it's not a full-blown member um and I really feel that when Michelle you were on this you were a full-blown member without question in addition to that the council did rely heavily on you for information about the process and and what was happening so I just wanted to share some of that there's a lot of gray there for me between uh liaison versus member that's all so my my raised hand is I I would like to strike the town counselor from this because one if they are a liaison that is determined by the council and it can't be guaranteed in a committee charge two I don't think that a counselor should be a non-voting member because one of what Lyn said right of kind of the double dipping on on votes of things that come back to the council but two this is one of many priority areas for the council uh and I believe that if we start adding counselors as non- voting members we are adding a whole other part of the job of being a town counselor because there are so many other committees that are deeply engrossed in priority priority area work of the council so I don't think that this is unless this is truly a limited term committee for a year or um maybe two years that is where I could see having a counselor being non- voting member but for it to be a standing committee I don't think that there should be a counselor as a as a non-voting member um and again repeating what I said about alazon because I I do think if that were the case we would want to appoint counselors to many many other committees and and I don't think that that's helpful to the Committees either uh at some point Michelle yeah I tend to agree with that and I think that naturally there are going to be counselors who are more or less interested in the work of this body and so the ones that are more interested may follow meetings they may even you know have something to share at Council meetings they may be able to um sort of engage with the committee um and I think that that will all happen naturally like in in holl's case who was a member of the former committee and is now on the council um and I also think after have I met recently with the affordable Housing Trust and I realized what great potential there is to collaborate with other committees um this work has a lot of potential to collab be in collaboration with other committees and so like the CSS JC or the HRC I see there will be natural natural possibilities that will occur for collaboration between the bodies and I don't necessarily think that having a liaison is is critical um from from one of those bodies or or really any other body um so if I would I would personally just strike it all um and say you know no Liaisons and no uh Council non- voting council members although George I really did I liked the I I I thought the way you were you were presenting that was an interesting idea and maybe not one to drop for the full Council to discuss but that's my uh two cents on it thank you councelor Ryan yeah um I hear the concerns that that my two colleagues rais and I there's I take them seriously um I don't know we we'll make this decision I guess at the end of our deliberation today but um Michelle suggests and I'm sort of Leaning this way a little bit myself that we should at least raise this with the council and see if there's any feeling uh that this particular body given its charge and given the importance that we've given to this um from the very beginning in in uh formal statements repeatedly um is this a body where uh we think we might make an exception and the answer may be no and that's fine um I'm still back uh to the question about non- voting members and whether um you know one scenario would be um the coun there's no counselor on the there's no counselor on the body as a non voting member but the counselor would I think almost certainly I would hope establish a Lia on with this committee given its importance um and then the question is do you want non- voting members and that's really a question again as we I've already talked Dr shaz's weighed in I don't know if Michelle has any thoughts do you think the work of this body would be improved if you had say a member from CSS JC Andor from HRC as non- voting members they would come regularly and um participate in deliberation discussion um and but they would not vote and they would not affect the Quorum but you would like to have them there because you feel that would really improve and expedite and assist in the work that you're doing or do you feel that you know if they you could reach out to them yourselves you don't have to have them as a formal non-voting member um and maybe you feel that that we'll do that in the course of our work it's not a big deal so um a couple things in that I think we probably should raise this with the council as a whole that's my thought whether we do want to make an exception um and I guess a question then for uh Michelle and for Dr shabaz is whether um we want to make any kind of listing for non- voting members we just want to strike that as well George can I clarify sure um because I made a note here were you talking about a mandatory liaison uh for the council that follows the rules or were you talking about a council non- voting member um if I hope that I guess I was I was saying that if in the end uh there's no counselor on this body I would hope that the council would establish or decide to create a liaison its normal process that's just a hope um and I would like the council and again we'll see what the rest of you think but I'd like the council to talk about whether they think this should be an acception and that we should actually uh uh elect or appoint someone from the council to sit as a non-voting member on this body and uh I've heard some objections to that they and that may be I I just think we should talk about it I the second question is do we want does do people think that this would make this body more effective if they had people coming regularly from either or both CSS JC or HRC to participate in their work and their deliberations but they would not be voting members or do they feel that yeah you know we'll reach out to to these people you know when we need them um you know we'll establish the connections it's really we don't need them to be officially appointed um as non- voting members that's just a question Y for the the group thank you um I apologize I I raised my little physical hand line so if it's okay I'm gonna I'm gonna um go next uh but actually Michelle is your hand up to respond to George it's not I can respond but please you go ahead I forgot to lower it no no no you're fine okay um so George to answer the second part one I'm fine bringing that question to to council if Lyn will is interested in putting it on an agenda for a discussion maybe we can say like we want the council to commit half an hour to discussing this specific topic and this specific topic only um and we can see how that goes but uh I think for me the the latter part about the CSS JC or HRC one of the things that Michelle was saying is you know she saw the potential in Partnerships with the affordable housing trust etc etc I would be more comfortable saying that this body once they determine what is going to be implemented when if that if that part of their implementation would cross over with the charge of another committee then they should hold joint meetings they should etc etc right like they shouldn't necessarily have one person as a liaison from the other committee speaking for the committee if it's only about one part of an implementation plan so my my thought on it is that I don't think that there should be a specific liaison from these one of these two committees because I see this that possibly is limiting um and possibly is not necessarily being again the most helpful based on the direction this committee goes in their first couple years so um that's that's my thought I don't I would move to strike the full line of liaison um for those reasons Lynn I agree with striking a line that the council determines where they're going to have Liaisons I'm not saying that this committee shouldn't have one I think it probably should definitely have sure uh second of all um I have no no objection to having this being a conversation but I think it should be the conversation around the larger charge and this is just one of the issues okay that's all yeah okay sounds good um Michelle is that a lingering hand I'm on my phone and I can never figure out how to totally uh I'll I'll keep calling on you just in case though is it is it let me just ask you oh it's up and then it it went down for a second though okay how about now yep okay so I'm going to for right now strike this line um unless George were you would you like to advocate for keeping this part in uh no uh I'm not hearing a strong case for it so um and I'm hearing some good reasons that you've articulated and others have articulated so yes strike that and I guess we're saying there will be no non- voting members at the moment which is fine by me but we'll follow it with discussion yeah okay so term of appointment three years um this Lynn I think is this getting back to your idea your your discussion around standing sort of I'm gonna I had some thoughts on this because I think as I was reading through the report and the legal opinion and you know this this report is absolutely a thing of of beauty and I know it took a lot of work there are so many recommendations in this that this is a many many many year uh implementation right and so for me um there's also as I was reading through there's also different levels of feasibility um and different levels of priority for the items in the report and you know while I can look and make my own judgments on that I think that the first iteration of this body was as I read the charge I think this is what Michelle was talking about earlier too as I read the charge I was thinking about how what if the first iteration of this body were responsible for looking at the feasibility and priority for each of the items of the um in the report and determining what it would take to implement them in terms of where they place them uh in the kind of I guess in the priority level um not necessarily coming up maybe coming up with an implementation plan but I I didn't want to task this first iteration of this committee with implementation when there are so so so many things I think we should task the first the first round of this group right the first kind of however many years um as with looking at priority and feasibility and for that reason I want to make sure that this charge the the term of appointment is gives them enough time to do that um and then that the charge specifies it should be Revisited after um that first appointment so I'm I'm sort of getting ahead of myself but it does tie back to the idea of standing and the idea of a three-year appointment so um I wanted to just say that now because I I think that especially this first again the first round they really need to look at what's possible and what it would take to get there um any other comments on length of term and I believe we've lost Dr shabbaz but I'll keep an eye on the audience um yeah ly Athena I mean Anna I totally agree with what you're saying except for the fact that I think that it would be good for the committee to have a three-year appointment Max and then revisit it but I also think the first task of the committee would be to prioritize what actions they're going have a workpl plan and prioritize what actions and come to the council and get agreement on that so that we're not sitting with a list of seven things the committee is going to do we're sitting with a list of top three top priorities that kind of thing so on that vein is there any objection to threeyear terms I was looking at other appointments we made I think three years is is fine it's pretty much standard yep and then status any issues with that no standard yep okay um staff support Dei Department definitely yep I agree do we think that at this moment the there is capacity or not this just this moment but in perpetuity they have a new member joining them the beginning of August great yeah um okay we have oh sorry I no it was it was one big paragraph and I accidentally made it a new one when I didn't need to so this is this was a separate note about composition I believe that this first one wasn't was there not a lawsuit are we we can't do this right legally right okay all right but we can you know we can we can list characteristics that maybe you the characteristic might not be uh race but it could be like lived experience or you know things that basically help draw the kind of people to the committee but yes the legal opinion no longer allows this Michelle yeah and I I think that that's right Lynn um I think in the uh advertisement or whatever it's called that that the town puts out looking for folks I think the more kind of descriptive we can be about the purpose of this work it will naturally draw the the people to this committee that that will be able to make an impact on this committee and serve this committee well right yeah councilor Ryan so references to ancestry and enslavement are not permissible here not in terms of committee members so we can do we can we can say age or student status and those are okay but not race or ethnicity that's by this is in the uh the U KP law only KP law um statement I've read is on financial matters is there some one that exists on the issue of that we're discussing because I haven't seen it I believe this was a different opinion it wasn't in the one that we received back about this committee um that's right that's right I'm sorry to jump in on no please I Wasing do please do no it didn't it didn't come um as a response in in the last legal opinion that we received that was a response to several questions you know to the questions we put together that the answer to this question was not in there um but it did come up in relation to other matters and um and I think even if it even if there's not anything right now that explicitly states that um I think that's sort of the direction that things are have been moving in that um that it's not possible to to limit it in that way although I Lynn could we look in to potentially I don't think we can say that the committee can be made up of all people who identify as African Heritage for example but does that mean that we can't ask or put you know put can we put that out there in the advertisement at all or you're asking I'm not I'm not going to pretend I have a legal here we may want to look into that a little like is there is it are we can we put some descript language in there um you know without making it you know only people of African Heritage in this case for example right like could we say like individuals who represent members of the eligible group that black reparations are addressed to are encouraged to apply would that be okay um exactly yeah that those are the kinds of questions I would certainly want to ask KP law okay but for this particular document it seems like composition is simply going to be five members that's all it can say that's right and and one youth Andor student from a higher ed institution um I mean we could keep that I guess but it kind of looks kind of just hanging out there all by it's Lonesome um right but we could keep it uh but you then the question what about everybody else u i i well I guess it's a question how it's clearly here for reason and there was it was believed by by by this group that that they would like to have a young person as one of the five members um and we could specify that right right but I see I think this whole area is an area where we need to come up with language that reflects um people who have interest have expertise uh it's the kind of thing you know we struggle with for all committees frankly you know if we want if we if we're putting together a finance committee then we want certain kinds of expertise and stuff like that so but I just think we have to be very we can't blatantly say it has to be a majority of people who can you know prove that they have Heritage or something like that I it just can't okay so do you want yeah go ahead yeah I mean I think one of the things that George or or ly you were asking was what the rationale or what the purpose of specifying a youth or student from a higher education institution um serves and I think also specifying that I think the word student may have been put in here as as a kind of not under 18 but still young um and so just clarifying that there's a good chance that a student would be a non-traditional age student and so kind of just I I wanted to hear I'd love to hear Michelle and I know we lost Dr shabbaz but I'd love to hear from you what the intention of this um this membership is and do you think that this is if we are only having five spots is this still that priority level where you would like to keep it as one of the five I think it's that's where five and seven definitely is different um so I wanted to check check in with you on your thoughts there yeah that's a great question question um I'm sorry did I interrupt someone nope okay um I I think that again this can be you know in the descriptive language of the advertisement that we encourage you know I I think that's going to be really important I do think that the ah felt um identifying that a youth uh or or you know a student from a highered Institution um would be uh would be desired for this committee the purpose of putting it out there by itself was to really bring awareness to it and I think that's something that on all committees and I'm starting to see some committees actually that have people from the colleges um or or even uh folks who are still in the high school so I think it was really about awareness and I don't necessarily think it has to be in this charge I think maybe just keeping it in mind for when uh the town manager puts puts the ad out um calling for members all right I'm going to strike it from this version then okay um just do we want to go back up to composition and also edit that or because it is in 527 it's five oh yeah thank you sorry I'm wondering why it's even there because we have above number of voting members is five and composition five moting voting members maybe I guess I don't know well this I think now that yeah I was going to say now that we struck the two bullets I think we can get rid of um the composition bullet because there is no specific composition of the members Lynn however this is the place where we would want to try to work in some of that language that we've just been grappling with really like really exper well yeah as opposed to just using it in in the in in Outreach and advertising you'd want to have it in the charge um itself which would be something like I mean we could try to do it right now um a little bit I I I don't want us to try to do it I want us to get legal opinion on this one it why don't you just leave the word composition in and and then under here we need to um just say description of desired characteristics or something like needs to include description of it's a not I kept it I added a comment on the right here that said the question is can we look into how to request or say that we encourage um as the as the note yeah um okay so let's sorry there's a a comedic moment in my household where my dog has broken into the room that I'm I'm um in this meeting go ahead buddy um it's fine she's fine so all right let's dig into the purpose um and this is where I think we start to get into the Dilemma that we were talking about earlier of what iterations of this committee might exist and is their purpose now the same as their purpose always will be um so right now this reads ABC's mission is to carry forward the work of the ah in accordance with the recommendations in the ah final report then and uh you know what I had actually forgot to take my hand down but I was going to put it up this is where I feel the council needs somehow or another there needs to be a decision which of the recommendations have we AG as a council agreed we want Focus to focus on okay and that may be an iterative process with the committee and the council but I think there needs to be something I think we also just lost Athena Athena had to text me she had to jump off but I okay we're good we're recording that's fine y we are um so I I don't know how to somehow or another between the time the recommendations come out of this committee but before they do there needs to be a decision by the council which of the recommendations do we want this committee to focus on so my hand is up um one of the things that I was looking at as a reference point to Lynn to your point was how the ecac charge was written because they also had a big big big report that they were looking at as well and the way that theirs was written was that uh it it was in their charge specifically um and it said you know that first the purpose statement was really vague it said the energy and climate action committee shall guide the town in meeting its climate mitigation and resilience goals so I think that the um I do think that the mission is a bit more Broad than the actual charge so I could see having this read you know ABC's mission is to you know kind of really mimicking how ecac's was written guide um guide the town in moving forward the work of the ahra final report um that doesn't necessarily guarantee everything and I think in the charge is where we specify the things that you were talking about uh in in your comment I there are actually two or three committees uh since the council started where the council has not been as explicit about its what priorities it wants to work wants committees to work on when I'm trying to explain how I don't when a report is written it doesn't necessarily mean everything in the report is going to happen the way it was recommended okay and I I use a very personal example on this the first fire station committee that I chaired back in 2006 recommended three fire stations it's not happening okay Council had to make some decisions in here the town had to have input so at what point do we say yes we're going to pursue these but we're not going to P Place priority on these I think that's in the charge so I was looking at committee charges to prepare for this meeting and I think two really strong conflicting examples if are if you put the ecac charge up next to the cssj charge because the the way that the two of the charges are framed are really different so ecac's charge says that they are recommending for adop option to the Town Council before every single thing other than plan and prioritize cross- sector efforts so they've got you know they're they're proposing and recommending that is their purpose whereas when you look at the CSS JC's charge theirs is ensure the implementation of all recommendations right so their charge is different um and I think that their charge doesn't have the thing that you're talking about which is to engag with the council in that way right so I would recommend for this as we look through this charge I think that it's going to be stronger and I think given what the work of this committee is and the implications of the work of this committee I think that we should model its chart as we look at this I think that we should draw inspiration from the way that the charge of ecac was written because I do believe that's a strong charge that also makes it possible for the committee to meet its goals I think that the CSS JC was given a charge that's not possible to meet because they cannot ensure the implementation of the uh cswg report without Council approval so I think that that's where we've we've got to do better in in this charge by being realistic about what we're asking this committee to do I don't think that that gets in at the purpose I think that gets in at the bullets under the charge that's my hot take on it um my concern yeah I mean you've you have pointed out two committees that the count Council has had a serious role in creating in which the the broadness of the charge has not necessarily worked well so I I agree I I I think the council needs to be more much more clear about what it its priorities are Michelle yeah I think maybe what's missing in the purpose is also to say that the mission is to carry forward the commitment on the part of the Town Council you know to uh to to pursue this reparative action in our community so because I I can see what Lynn's saying and the way that it's reading right now could be perceived as um you know that this body just like if you look down not to jump ahead but one of the what did we put oversee the town's reparations fund that's not really what we meant you know um so it's sort of like I I think that uh maybe adding something that's a little bit broader in the mission or the purpose that speaks to the council's commitment um and references the ah's report as one variable uh in terms of carrying that work forward that's just a thought councelor Ryan so I I'm gonna push back a little bit here on Lynn um and I think by creating this charge the council is committing itself to something it it agreed to do a long time ago and is creating this body and giving this charge to make sure that we to the degree that we can we fulfill some of those commitments and Promises rather than us sitting down and deciding which commitments and Promises we as a council think should be number one two three four which we think um are more important or what we think we are enabling a group of citizens to hold us to our commitment to to repair and to address the issue of systemic racism and racial Injustice and so I like this statement that their mission is to carry forward the work of the ah in accordance with the recommendations in that final report how much of that will actually be realized how it will be prioritized that's all to be determined but what the purpose says here and if we as a council agree to it we are saying that we are true to our word and we're creating this body with this charge to keep our feet to the fire um that doesn't mean that we're going to implement everything in that report I don't think the people who wrote the report believe that everything in that report was going to be implemented but I don't see us going through and picking out one two or three or four things and then putting them in this charge as our sort of her the parties we want you to focus on no we want you to as a group um begin to uh bring this forward to us and say okay here are things we think you should be doing based on this report and that'll be on our task to decide what to do or not to do so yeah I'm sorry so there may be the issue is there has to be some place where the fees just because it I please separate this from reparations just because a committee recommends something doesn't mean we should necessarily create a whole new committee to carry out those recommendations without some level of discussion about whether or not we want those recommendations carried out okay hands hands hands um so Lynn I hear what you're saying I also want to separate out the purpose and the charge because I do not believe that this purpose is getting at the fact that I don't think that the purpose statement just this part I do not believe that this is getting at nor should it get at the deliverables of this group I think that my concern with this purpose statement is actually that it really uh it's it's not a big concern I just want to make sure that this is known is that this purpose statement limits the work of this group to the recommendations that are in the report um because their purpose is only to carry forward the work as outlined in the report so if we're comfortable with that okay that's fine I just want to make sure that that is clear Lynn I think that all of the concerns that you have raised are part of the charge I don't think they're part of the purpose I actually when I think about the purpose I see the purpose as being much more about what Dr shabaz and Michelle's talked about at the beginning about why this is why this work is important um in terms of you know when we look at other other committee charges it's supporting the town and moving forward on XYZ topics um that's that's how I see this and so I think we are this the purpose statement does not specify to what degree or how they carry forward the work it just says they're going to move the needle in some way as per the recommendations when we get into the charge I have a ton of thoughts and a ton of changes that I think we we'll make but that is where L I think we get to the things that you are saying about they will be a recommending body they will prioritize the list and recommend those priorities that to me is the charge and the purpose is a broad overview of why this group is in is in existence not what it's going to do can we look at the language of that statement the purp statement the purpose statement can we look it's highlighted right here I know can we talk about it for a second oh that's what I hoped we were talking about yeah good so what's what's your problem with what do you want to change I mean I I don't have any changes to this other than is to guide I would say um uh ABC's mission is to guide the town forward in the work of HRA but I don't feel strongly about it enough to to fight for it necessarily I think it's fine as is so to carry forward the work of the ah in light of in response to in acknowledgement of is would that help um because it's a 160 some page report that has a an enormous amount of information and and and important right and it also has a whole host of recommendations they're not prioritized uh as far as I read that report they are things that the the the group feels this is what the town should be working on um I don't think anything in this statement or anything in the report says to me that somehow every single thing must be done um but this these are the kinds of things that need to be done need to be addressed if the council is serious about its commitment that it made almost 5 years ago um so I don't have a problem with the purpose statement um you could say instead of in in accordance with which might sound a little bit too literal um to be guided by is not bad um the recommendations that that's good um and so then I think we need to hear from the the the Michelle and from Dr shabas what do they think of this language but um I don't want to try and and narrow it at this point I wanted to ex reflect what I believe to be the council's commitment to the work of the ah and seeing that this this be done Michelle do you have any thoughts on this yeah um I I think I've already said it but I'm not sure um is there any desire to broaden to uh reflect the commitment that the town made five years ago so because right now the way that I'm reading it is that this successor body is harrying forward work that was completed by one other body the ahra and yes that this work is very specific so of course that makes sense but um this was a commit to uh end structural racism and to repair uh you know harms that have occurred in our community and so I'm just I would like to see some language potentially added that uh says that the mission is to um you know uphold or maybe that's not the right word I'm just coming out with this on the fly but to uphold the um the commitment uh that the that the Council made to uh to repair uh or you know I'm sorry my words aren't coming together but something something that sort of gets it out of just the ahr um or the ah's final report because I think that um you know I don't know that give me a minute no no no you're fine um councelor Ryan are you can I go first or do you do you have a pressing thought pleas please go ahead okay sorry I am really hindered by not being able to raise my little Zoom hand right now uh one of my concerns I think this the um commitment to unstructural racism is brought up often as and I think that it's a strong um it's a strong vote from the council however it is a non-binding resolution and I do worry sometimes often that we use it as if it were a bylaw and so I think one of the things that I appreciated about the ah charge was that it talked and I had just pulled it up just to make sure it talked about to you know realize the goals of um or or to work towards the goals of or something about the goals expressed in that resolution I I am not comfortable putting in the charge of a committee that it should realize a resolution because resolutions are statements of opinion not statements of policy um and so I I think that's and again that is my understanding of of them but we've talked a lot about um Michelle might have some traumatic memories of when we were dealing with plant medicine and how resolutions are non-binding um and so so I I think that that's where we have used this particular resolution as binding and I think that I I don't want to um accidentally honestly weaken what we're trying to do by falsely tying it to something that is a statement of opinion by the council so I think that if we are going to put that that resolu reference the resolution in there which is fine I don't think that it should be a to you know enact the provisions of or whatever like the something like that I think it should be something along the lines of in the spirit of the resolution the council passed um to reflect what type of document it is councelor Ryan I have in front of me the fourth or fifth version of our town manager goals every year for six years now one of the goals is racial equity and social justice that's not a resolution that's not expression of opinion that has been a stated goal of this body for its entire existence to possess my knowledge and it says to continue making advances in racial equity and social justice to uphold the council's statement of values and adopted resolutions then there are three specific right so this has been a central part of our goal statement for six years so I I like Michelle's idea of at least somehow tying the purpose to one of the most basic goals we've had since the beginning um if we could do that in in in a short and concise way so it isn't just uh carrying out the mission of a particular body in a particular report but it's tied to uh a basic core goal that has never changed and and this body is being created in part to essentially keep us uh on the path uh because I think quite honestly left to our own devices given all the things that we have to deal with and I think we all know what this is like it's easy for things to get shun at as side and um since this is one of our core goals this body I think is appropriately being created um and so yeah I'd like to have something like that referenced in a brief way um I don't agree that this is just a matter of opinion I don't think it's just a function of a couple of resolutions that we passed uh at a certain time point in time it's actually reflecting a core goal that we've restated every single year that we've been in existence George and I and I want to clarify what I said and I apologize if it came across as I didn't want to realize it I think we we use it as as if it were a bylaw and I agree with what you're saying that we should make the statement more powerful by anchoring it in that goal um how do you do you have any language to pit I I'm again we're doing it on the Fly it's now 805 but I we don't want to delay this too much more it's already been sitting out here for a long time but you could have something like in light of the council's you know basic goal of racial equity and social justice um something to that effect just tying it to our our committed goals uh specific goal uh around racial equity and social justice um in particularly around the issue of how do we put it um support the work of the town and repairing the damage of structural racism in ammer now we don't have to put all that language in we could simply say in light of the council's uh you know basic goal to in support of racial equity and social justice um I'm doing this off the top of my head no no no it's fine I appreciate it something like that short we don't want to get into the all the language you could add um take from the most recent goal statement um which I don't think I have in front of me here because this is 2023 I have to find 202 but uh I assume the language hasn't changed that much um and as an e and Contin it's continued commitment to repair the damage of structural racism in ammer something to that effect and I'm sure we could make it better um so the purpose and this would be at the beginning so purpose in light of Da d d da okay um a brc's mission is to carry forward the work of ah I don't know we can we could play with yeah yeah I know I I think that makes sense in light of the counil yeah and guided by the recommendations of the final report yeah and so in light of the council's long-standing goal of advancing racial equity and social justice in amorist commitment yeah dismantle structural racism and I I was writing as you were talking so it's it's weird right now but go ahead I take out the second enam not that one I was going to take the first one out now fine that's good that's okay um okay um okay let's see if we can make this work now in light of the counil da da uh a ABC's mission is to carry forward the work of ah Guided by the recommendations in the ah final report that's one way we could try to do it to try to I think address I think Michelle's excellent point that this should be linked to the council's longstanding I agree and but also should be tied to this specific report and the recommendations in it Guided by makes it clear that we're not suggesting that every single thing in this report is has to be realized or could be realized but this is our a guiding star this is what we expect this body to use and we are uh expected to be held accountable I basically this is I think a committee that's basically holding us accountable to our own uh lofty goals and helping us figure out how to get there exactly right I agree right it's it's not punitive but it is I think it's meant to say well you've made this commitment yeah and so we want to make sure that you you keep your word yeah to the agree it's possible you know right yeah Michelle I think this is this is really strong um the only thing that is coming to mind is um this committee is let's see what did what what do we naming I mean this committee is hold on ammer black reparations committee so uh it's very specific that it's black reparations um I don't necessarily think that means we can't have this language I just want to be aware that um when we're talking about our racial Equity goals it extends Beyond uh the black reparations that were you know addressing so yeah um no I I agree completely I'm trying to look at and see ly my concern is that we basically have just created a whole different committee H the the goal of this committee was initially to carry forward the recommendations of the report right and by doing the language we've just talked about we basically have said no no we need a committee RIT large to to hold our feet to the fire is that really what we want to do ly I disagree um I think that one yeah I do think we should do that but two um that's a separate issue but I think two I think we're my concern and and I might be kind of being too picky here but my concern is we already know that there are some changes that may that will will come just based on the legal review right of the of the financials that things aren't going to necessarily be the exact way they were specified in the report and I don't want to limit this committee to only what was written in the report as it was written in the report I want to make sure that they have the leeway to if something new comes up they're able to make that recommendation to the council even if it wasn't in their report so I would be comfortable saying in accordance with the purpose of the ah report or something like that but my concern is when we say in accordance with the recommendation we're saying this committee can only talk about those recommendations as they were written um in accordance with uh we could also just say I I don't know that's why I wrote Guided by because that's where they should be focused but I don't want to limit them to only the way that they were written in the report and and I understand that I think we always want to give committees flexibility to learn as they go along this broader statement is it just I'm concerned that you know that's fine if that's what the council wants to do is is create a committee like that but that's not um what the initial discussion was about the initial discussion was about the report and you see this as having lost the report to clarify I no I see this is going beyond the report okay um councelor Ryan I think it's putting the report in context um one might ask why are we creating this body and I guess the suggested answer would be because we have this report uh that this body created and we want another group to somehow uh see that at least some of these recommendations are realized that that would be but someone might than go on ask why are you doing that and I think the point of this purpose it's not expanding it it's just putting it in context why do we think the work of the ah and the at least some of the recommendations in that report are important because they would actually address a stated long-standing goal of this Council to advance racial equity and social justice in our community um so it's yeah Lynn yeah that's fine I I'm I don't think it's expanding it it's just connecting it to the larger purpose that larger goal that the council has committed itself to um I don't think we'd be doing this at all if the council had not made that commitment six years ago and because it's made that commitment in the light of of of George Floyd and a whole host of other things um we have been pursuing this now for six years but I'd like to connect it back to why we started this in the first place uh Michelle I was going to say something similar um to George in that you know the ah was created out of the you know from the resolution from all that sort of was surrounding that so the H didn't just you know pop out of the blue it was born of those other uh elements and so I think that that's what we're attempting to do here is to create that context or to to to be explicit about the context and and draw that connection um to sort of show the lineage of how uh you know this how we've gotten to where we are now uh Lynn no my hands not up sorry all right um I think unless there's a recommendation for language change we should leave this here for now um I want to touch base it's 8:15 we have 15 minutes left I fear that when we start the actual bullets of the charge this is a whole other discussion but I want to check with the committee members our next go meeting as per our calendar is not until August 8th which means that any discussion of this would not be brought to the council until the uh council meeting on August uh 19 19 yeah thank you um so I wanted to check in to see if people would like I mean I would like to take I don't think that we can really take this back to council until we've fully gotten through the charge based on Lynn's recommendation for what goes on the agenda um and I we will not get through this in 15 minutes so well the good news is we have time it seems between now and the next council meeting to visit this both in terms of the language that we've just proposed for all of us to think about it and maybe refine it or whatever and also a chance then to go through the the specific items of the charge I mean we do have what we have about 15 or a little less minutes Absolut we could begin that process now we're not going to complete it um but I think we're okay um and also give us a chance to revisit um this sort of on the-fly editing and and as well and have a further discussion about some of the issues that Lynn has raised that we need to think some more about so I will I will ALS I will also tell you that given everything else on the agenda for the 19th I don't see this there okay okay so here's what I'm gonna oh sorry that's it okay so I'm going to say that go will plan to revisit this on August 8th we also have two members who are not here and who I am sure will have thoughts um so let's spend we'll spend the last 10 minutes on the first part of the or we'll dig through the charge as much as we get in 10 minutes I will put this I will ask Athena to place this document in the um uh packet for today so that um because it's on the screen I have to but also because that way you can reference it and I'm going to ask her to place the uh marked up version um so that folks can see it um and reference it and I'll make sure that Pat and counselor at have um have it as well that sound good we will then discuss it as a committee at our next meeting on August 8th okay all right let's talk about the charge so um there are six items here um let's go line by line so line One support implementation of the recommendations in the African Heritage reparation assembly's final report this is where I think in reading this we I I would I would suggest changing the language to again mimic some of what was written or some of the way that the ecac charge was written I don't know why I like that charge so much I don't know who wrote it but it's it's feels strong to me but um the way that their charge is written it was recommend for adoption long-term goals that focus on dot dot dot um and recommend for adoption Target dates benchmarks and or goals to achieve uh I think both I I do think the word recommend needs to be in recommend to the council needs to be in here in this first bullet and then I think prioritization and dates and things like that any other thoughts on this first one well you make a good point that it's not clear that they actually have a role in implementation or even supporting it I mean that's what does support implementation of the recommendations mean um I guess what we they they'll be doing is trying to bring forward some or specific recommendations going through that report they will work to uh to bring to the council so maybe recommend to the council um uh uh I don't want to say some but recommended the council uh specific actions that Council can take in in in implementing I I don't know so it's yeah um Michelle is your is that a new hand or an old hand it I it is an old hand but I do have thoughts after Lynn um that'd be great thanks okay Lynn I I think the first thing they need to do is review the recommendations and okay support and then recommend to the council Rec um actions um actions um strategies for I I don't see this is where we get to are we going for all of them that's that's where that's where I'm stuck well I can I just quickly jump in that be please help so I think along that line and I I think review absolutely it's going to take the committee some time to to review it and um and process it um but I'm I'm sort of thinking about what Anna said earlier which there were two words that stood out to me one was feasibility and one was priority and so sort of thinking about okay they're going to review this report and then they're going to create a matrix or some some something that goes back to the council that says based on what we know based on the funds that are available based on the legal opinion this is how feasible we think the you know the recommendations are and and go through them and and create you know some scale for that and then these are the uh recommendations that we believe should be prioritized um given staff time give all of the things you know um and then like sort of level or layer the next phase is the Str is the strategy piece as you said Lynn like okay then we have to think about so we have feasibility we have priority then what is the strategy for getting for moving those you know and then the council's basically in between those two things had that conversation well do we agree with this Matrix or not do we you know what I mean uh so that's kind of how I think about it I know that this isn't articulating well what you were saying Michelle but I'm I'm just trying to capture the the idea um basically yeah review the recommendations of the final report prioritize and what I mean lots of action words here prioritize strategy we're looking stry prioritize and propose next steps I mean I keep thinking to myself the simplest language is review the recommendations and propose to the Council next steps um but that maybe a bit too broad too vague uh because I agree that that prior prioritizing and feasibility are important um yeah I'm using the word recommendations too much I that's all right but review the recommendations of the hi report and and um uh assist the Council or or recommended the council uh uh [Music] but we really want them to help us determine next steps uh along the lines of of realizing some of the recommendations and that requires determining what's feasible and what's more important and what's less important and we we need their help in that and that's what we want them to do right yep um so maybe at the moment review recommendations um establish uh priorities um and feasibility uh and and then uh uh recommend next steps to the council okay so then my question here is we've talked a lot about what's under the purview of this group and what's under the purview of the council who ultimately is determining what's Fe feble because I don't know that we've support we have enough support for our committees to make those determinations and I'm I'm really trying to just speak very practically here that the council has access to the town manager in a way that our committees don't and so we are able to ask some of these feasibility questions in and access legal review and things like that in a way that our committees can't and so I don't know committees can access legal Rie okay so I don't know that the committee I guess I want to make sure that if the committee is the one who is responsible for determining feasibility that they have the resources to do that and that they're not making an ill-informed determination that's what I'm trying to say and so if we are giving them that and and the committee feels that they're giving them that fine um totally fine I'm I'm happy to give them that determination versus recommendation um Lynn and then Michelle yeah feasibility is not always an issue of is legally feasible I understand that so in many ways I don't think anybody can determine anybody by themselves can determine feasibility I think it's a combination of the committee and the council and the town manager and the staff um because we all know feasibility is based on resources right so what if the language were just very broad just said review the recommendations for the final report and and propose to the Council next steps and then leave it to the this body to do what Michelle has pointed out they will have to do which is determine what they think is you know what's most important and what's given what's most important what's most from their perspective most feasible but that they're going to have to do we don't need to tell them that they're going to do that that but next thing we want them to do is come back to us and say here's what we think you should do next right want you to review this and we want you to propose next steps right okay so Anna can I just Michelle's hand is up so I W to go ahead go ahead real quick um so if let's say I were appointed to this committee and and and I have this background right so I'd be able to get in there and say hey I think this is kind of what they're asking us to do next based on that more broad language that George um suggested but you know I think that some specificity like um you know um uh provide recommendations related to feasibility and priority level of you know the ahra recommendations or something like that like provide recommendations related to feasibility and priority level and and and that kind of covers the basis of saying like these are just recommendations um you know that the council still needs to look at them and decide whether they agree or not um but it gives enough specificity that at least for the body to get started and get rolling they know that that's sort of the first thing to look at and and do that in collaboration with like feasibility you're doing it in collaboration with legal opinion you're doing in collaboration with staff you know what I mean any number of things okay yeah Michelle I really like that um that Framing and I think we could yeah provide recommendations um for we could say provide recommendations for implementation related to Priority level and feasibility or no okay D okay that's all right no you you keep going I'm just I've been trying to think out loud here but I'm think don't pay attention to my head all right provide recommendations for implementation of um I'm trying to get it all into one and maybe I don't need to what Michelle is suggesting is and it does make sense that some kind of more spec specific laying out of the steps would perhaps be helpful she would need it but there certainly could be others who would very much value it so the thought would be we want want you to um prioritize and and and based on on priority and level of feasibility um then make then propose next steps to the council we want you to um right we we want these two words in there I think Michelle if I'm reading your your thought clearly you want something to be effective you know you must make establish some priorities and you must think about what most feasible and then you need to come to us and tell us what you want us to do what you yeah because my my concern is if we didn't do that they it might they the committee might just come up with a whole another way of dealing with this with their charge you know exactly right so we're going to expect them to prioritize and and and think hard about feasibility and then come to us based on those two criteria and say here's what we think you should be doing next so yeah I'm going to take this out of the first bullet for now so the ABC just because we're at 829 so the ABC shall review the recommendations of the ah final report provide recommendations to the Town Council related to Priority level and feasibility of the ah final report recommendations and then based on priority and feasibility make recommendations on further action to the Town Council I think we can combine those last two but I don't think we can do I think so too but I can't figure out how right now right that's okay it's it's time okay I'm goingon to take last comments and then I'm going to save this I will make sure that it's in the packet for tonight in its marked up version um and what I made I'm just going to at the beginning add a quick like draft notes of just to make it really clear for the um for when it's in the folder draft notes on the ABC charge put the D under discussion as of 784 24 thank you okay um all right last thoughts Lynn nope okay Michelle move to thank you so much this was truly one of the best meetings that I've had the opportunity to participate in and I I'm I'm very grateful so thank you thank you very much for all your work all right we will plan to keep this on the agenda for um our meeting on August 8th and Michelle reach out to confirm that once I know for sure ly um thank you Michelle thank you you are free to go Lynn did I hear you correctly that you made a motion to adjourn I did all right I will second that motion and I'm gonna call the vote councelor Ryan I Lynn I and I am an I thank you both so so much I will see you later bye bye