gonna stay are you gonna stay for the full meeting Athena I'm GNA stay on I'm I'm trying to get the council meeting posted so I'll be listening with half my brain but if you need something I'm here if you want to make me host in case you need to get off you can um I will around yes I will before I hop off or co-host okay okay good afternoon everyone today is uh March 14th and this is the joint commit and uh seeing that we have a quorum I will call the meeting to order and the first thing I need to do is make sure um all the committee members can hear and be heard so I'll just call out the names as I see them on the screen um Bob hegner yes present Eugene gofredo yes Sarah here Jennifer present Lee yes and I think that's it um so um as you know we we all we have on our agenda today the DPW projects and what is something is called facilities and that's basically Town buildings um broadly so I am going to turn it over to um Sandy if you want to say anything before it looks like Guilford is here so we would go through the PW projects first I think and you also Sandy sent us a summary larger table so I didn't know whether you wanted to talk about that at all sandy um now or you want to wait till we go through the projects I was thinking maybe we'd wait until we go through the project so that the Departments who are here to speak don't have to wait around okay then I think we will start with Guilford and just um in in the p the way we've done this is similar to what you heard last week where uh the the the department presents the projects um in as much detail or as little more summary detail and then we ask questions make comments um and uh Sarah volunteered to be a note taker last a minute Taker and Eugene did fantastic very I said I said not till the 21st though not today not today so we need a n Note Taker for today then we need someone to take minutes we need a volunteer and Je Eugene already did it once and we have a um it it's fairly simple in that there is a zoom recording you get right away we have a Word document we can send that already kind of sets it up and then you just create it for a day and Eugene did more detailed minutes than we often do in terms of who said what but he captured he he thoroughly captured them so I'm I'm stalling just till I see a volunteer Kathy I just want to say that um the two school committee people here have a meeting at 6:30 so okay it's just really tight it's tight tonight all right I'm I'm happy to take minutes because I'll just say you approved everything we're not there's this isn't decision time um all right so I don't want to stall but we do need a minute taker so I what I'm going to do is I'll volunteer for this time um I don't usually have to do it but I'm quick at minutes and I'm just going to use the zoom because I clearly can't take minutes while chering so moving on to Guilford yeah good afternoon so um I'm just going to read go through my spreadsheet of projects we have um there's a lot of stuff we do every year um there's a lot of stuff we do every year it's not on here but uh we were told this was going to be a a non non vehicle year so there's not much in vehicles um which is okay because we haven't got the vehicles we ordered last last time because it takes about 18 months to get vehicles um so um okay so I'll start off the I do not know what how you have it in order but um in my order um is the transportation plan this is a $5,000 we asked for we've been asking for it for every year and we use it to do different different things this year we've used it to fund the uh the intersection or the neighborhood study at kushman and we're also using some of it to to fund the studies for Fort River School the traffic studies um so that's what this is kind of used for um storm water management program is basically the same thing um we're required by federal law we have a permit a storm waterer permit and we're required to do certain things uh next year fy2 we actually have to do a little more we have to do some more testing and we actually have to do some more um physical Corrections when we do the testing so we've actually asked this year for $100,000 um and we'll be spending that on those storm water related items um we asked every year we ask for money to fix the sidewalks around town we ask for $50,000 usually what happens is that's increased somewhere along the line as you guys as the committee sorry as the committee looks at what money is available but we always at least ask for $50,000 we did the sidewalks on West Street last year from pomoy to um Crocker farm that was the big the biggest project we did last year we did a section the sidewalk from Pine Street to just a little piece on Pine Street to a little Brook uh around fiser Street and then um there was couple more little sidewalk projects we did but those are the biggest too um then we have our road resurfacing this is usually what comes from the town we ask for a little bit of money every year for Road resurfacing uh we usually ask for $500,000 and we've always we've recently got 500 or more it kind of does the same thing as like the sidewalks you add more if you have it um Gilford I'm gonna um put that stuff up on the screen so people can see it how's that looking at the same thing here can you see the same thing yep so all right so the next thing is the 450,000 we've asked for to uh finish the design of the north ammer intersection this is the Pine Meadow North Pleasant and sundland Road intersections so we want to try to wrap that up and get something going with a project soon to fix that intersection so that's 450 the um the next one is our chapter 90 money which it comes from the state and it was just it's just something we put in here to let you know we do get $841,000 from the state every year for chapter 90 work which is just just road work it can be Road resurfacing Road Reclamation it can be traffic lights it can be um guard rail anything to do with the roads that's what we use spend this money on uh the next thing down was we have $112,000 for Street relamping which this is the money we use for in case we have a lights go out we need to buy parts and pieces to uh fix them we do every other year we put in $112,000 for this type of type of money oh and then the actually I did it out of order so under after chapter 90 you have $100,000 this is money that's in addition to the money that was approved last year to upgrade traffic signals for Ada accessibility um we got the study done the we needed probably another $100,000 Plus what's left over from last year to actually purchase all the parts and pieces and install them so this is $100,000 is for that money and the disabilities access committee um was the sponsor for that project last year and hopefully moving forward um on your list we have the $122,000 for relamping which I was I told you about already um the next is $80,000 which is part of the field maintenance um package we put together last year there was a sum of money for Approved last year for groomer um groomer air raater a couple other pieces of equipment that we said we needed to keep the fields maintained and then we had a second batch of money which is this $80,000 um which is for some more specific equipment for the turf management the grass management um on the fields we have in town and that's what this 880,000 is um we do have to replace one of our mowers in the tree and grounds that's the $20,000 these are these mowers we have about four of them and we replace um we place one at least one of them every two years so we keep the fleet moving okay um every two years we request uh well every year we request money for tree removal support and every other year we add a little extra $20,000 to it to fund having a company come in and remove or grind the stumps and the trees that we can't get rid of uh the large butt logs we either have to pay to take them to Wagner or we hire a company to come in which is usually Wagner and grind them up and then we use the wood chips for other things so this year we're asking for the $440,000 usually it's about $20,000 is used for Crane renting a crane to do the big tree removal and then the other 20 is used for the processing the chips to be reused or getting rid of the material the last item we have have is the sidewalk snow plow there's $250,000 here to replace our one of our sidewalk snow plows um we have one dedicated sidewalk snow plow right now or machine that's for that purpose and we've been using a bunch of smaller equipment that's multi-purpose um we're finding that the multi-purpose equipment is not um working as well so we have a we want to replace one of them with a full scale sidewalk snow plow machine um and that's all we're asking for this year really small amount um compared to normal years so um Sarah I I will just call on people as I see the hands go up thank you um so these a couple questions the Scag mower that you say you replace you try to replace them every two years I mean replace one every two years how many do you have I I hope you know they have a long life we have four so they're only good for eight years yeah they do not have a long very long life we we mow once we start mowing we mow pretty much every day in the mowing season so they they get worn out pretty quickly all right and then my my other question is about the sidewalk plow because that seems like a huge amount of money for us to plow something that's only about six feet feet wide I mean how much does a full Road plow plow cost that's uh right now let's if you had another $150,000 you get a large snow snow plow truck on the plow and and this would be one of two how many or just one the only one we would have two that are two that are meant to be snow plow or um sidewalk snow plows and then we still would have one other piece of equipment that we use use that's a multi-purpose piece of equipment okay thank you other questions Bob yeah just Guilford just to follow up could you re explain that the the side are you replacing one with three one sidewalk plow with three pieces of equipment no no we we're replacing one existing multi-purpose piece of equipment with a machine that's made for snow plow and sidewalk plowing and that's really 250 huh the last one we bought was 190 wow so I I see Jean and Sarah H went back up I have several I I'm gonna follow everybody else so Jean hi Gilford this is H this is sorry can you guys hear me yes good um just going back to the the sidewalk clet that's opened up a lot of people's eyes what's the usage that you had this last snow season assuming that it's almost over you know say the end of this month how many times were the the current equipment used this this year we actually ended up using the dedicated snow plow 100% of the time and we uh we didn't use the other pieces as much um because the other the other pieces don't do as well so we had only had one machine out there um what we find is if we don't have two machines out there we don't get it done as quickly as people want and as people as people expect before school can start um and that's really the driver for having two pieces of equipment is trying to get the snow removed in time for having clean sidewalks for walking to school and that type of events you partially answered my part B was like where is this actually used I'm in South am we don't have sidewalks so I was assuming this would be like downtown plus other areas um we have a list online that shows the sidewalks we go through once and then the sidewalks that are on in front of town property we were supposed to maintain those so we go back to those more often uh we do the sidewalk on West Street all the way to Hampshire college and um Atkins um we actually do do a sidewalk on Glendale we do do a sidewalk on Wildflower um so those are and then we head to East Hadley Road and that's probably all we do that's all we do in um South hmer okay cool thank you very much welcome okay so I I'm gonna continue on this one and then I have comments on two others so uh before I go to the others if anyone has others um if if we didn't we're going to we the requests so far over the amount of money we have Gilford um which probably doesn't surprise you um but you know if we didn't fund the sidewalk snow plow um the sidewalk plow um it sounds like the consequences you would have to potentially you would have to pull out some of the equipment you says doesn't do as good a job but you could do some work with the other is is that true that's true we would okay then I'm going to focus on the other big one the $450,000 for the north Amis intersection I know this has been on hold for a couple years and I I'm going to repeat some of what I questions I had last time my understanding um just to give people a little bit of a background Guilford knows all of this but we've gone to uh the state a couple times maybe three times to do something on this intersection and when we went there a fair amount of work had been done on uh what does this look like what are some options so I'm not sure how much um detailed work needs to be done on the surveying of the intersection the width of the street because I have some diagrams that that was quite well displayed second on the traffic um the we have some traffic studies that were done they need to be updated but we also installed something called a smart light that in theory can count um it can count cars and um what I had heard is that we may or may not be capturing that information but it has the capacity to do that so my last comment on it is there's not agreement on what should be done for the intersection um on a should it be a roundabout there is someone rerouting some roads so to me it doesn't make sense to get to a more detailed design if there's not agreement so it's not and we desperately by the way anyone who drives up here would love to get that inter it's not that we don't think this is a major um of major concern so I'm worried that the 450 wouldn't be well spent if there's not agreement and that we have some elements of it already the and that that's my comments on that big that big one and I guess the last is a question when we did pomoy when we did the roundabout and the intersection down there we didn't have to first do a big study we just applied for a large M Works Grant so if we have a general sense of what we want to do do we have to do this level of work before we apply to the state because this isn't just so everyone knows this doesn't come near to enough to doing the inter section it's you know the estimates are one and a half to more so so that's my question on that item let's see um or comments partly more comments right maybe we should just leave them as comments okay I mean the money the that was the number that was put together a while ago um several years ago five years three years ago three three years ago we put this uh estimate together um the the biggest thing we haven't done in the intersection or in the in the work area is wetland flagging and those type of things and Wetland permitting so part of that money is for wetland flagging and permitting and the final survey which is from the library out towards the river where the work is in the riverfront so it's a little different than working at pomy there's there was no wetland issues at pomoy so we didn't have to deal with that um we we do have a uh uh much more involved uh neighborhood association in the North amrest Area so we we know we will spend some more time producing products and having to reproduce products at times um we we do have the traffic count information pretty much under control um we actually upgraded the intersection with a a device it's a it's a system called no traffic you want to Google it later it's called no traffic uh we have one installed here at this intersection we're going to put two more down by Fort River um it's a AI based um system that can actually um help control the patterns of traffic and it works really well we've since we put it in at North ammer we haven't had many complaints it's actually seems to be working much better with this system but it also counts everything counts people and cars um it does it with um video detection but it doesn't store well we don't store the video detection um so if you want to reduce the 450 a little bit you probably could um but that's the number we had come up with a while back and that's kind of the number we're just kind of staying with right now so that's there is stuff that has to be done before we can move forward most of it is actually like I said most of is a lot of it's Wetland issues thank you are there any other questions on any and any of the projects s yeah yeah um so I can't see it now but there were two lines for Road repair and resurfacing from two funding sources do those two combined represent the total uh funding that the town proposes to have for Road repair for the next year and how does it comp to past years well actually the last two years we've been getting a lot more money last three years we've been putting a lot more money into it um usually what happens though is that the money that you approve here won't be spent until actually calendar year 26 or 25 so this year we'll we've already started we've bid the projects we've awarded the contract s we have already encumbered money that was approved last year um to do that so if there's any other money that shows up um chapter 90 we got another piece of money from the state um which will be rolled into this I forgot the name of it I don't know Sandy do you remember what the name of it is um I don't remember the title but that state the governor did put money yeah it's like another 200,000 I think so that'll get rolled in if we get any grants like uh we get a mass Works grant for something um which we're actually asking for a mass Works Grant on Amon Street and you drive we'll roll that into this and we'll push all this money together and uh keep Paving okay thank you Sarah the other thing I mean we'll see it on Monday night um my understanding is the town manager is likely to propose using some of our remaining Ora money toward roads you know it just that that hasn't appeared on a screen yet but um that's happened the last two years actually you know that that there's been some way of moving around because this we were yes um Gilford answered it we we've been trying to get the number up um but the state number if you noticed across the line the state number just has been frozen it's not frozen like not keeping up with inflation it's literally the same every the same every year so it really doesn't keep up and it doesn't buy us very much and Senate our our Representatives understand that we're being underfunded for the amount of use of the roads um that we have so I I think that I think our allotment went up to that number in 2005 yeah the state just keeps putting in 200 million every year and MMA has been arguing to move it up to 300 or something but for reasons I don't understand it just doesn't move so I have won not so much on the amount um because $50,000 for sidewalks is clearly doesn't do very much but when you go out and do sidewalks like the there's a section that was done up here that moved a sidewalk to a new location um to so it could be widened um and that I think cost well I should ask did that cost the full 50,000 but you or not or did you do that because there was some roadwork were being done you kind of explained it that you had some money in a road workor project and you could just fold this in um so so is it that you grab money from other places for for some sidewalk work um well we we do I mean um we TR we we take uh we take the road money and if we're doing some road work we'll add sidewalk work to it if we want to need to um and then it kind of just comes out as a project um Comm Community Development black grant money has been used like um downtown on Kellog Street we use Paving money for for Paving Kellogg Street because we got Community Development block grant to do the sidewalks and if we did the sidewalks and didn't do the road everybody be like what's wrong this is not we want a nice picture we don't want bad and nice we want nice everything so that's how we kind of approach it we do a we try to get the whole project done um we have a CD CD cdbg project in um Southeast Street over by the old school coming up we also have a water line and a sewer line that is is um being worked on over there so there'll be Water and Sewer funds going into it as well so depending on what we're working on is where we pull funds from and add to to make a complete project hey I I'm looking I'm not seeing any other questions um or comments on the list is is that correct I don't want to overlook anyone if if that is true then I think we can thank Guilford um we went through a big list quickly thank you Guilford and we can we can welcome Jeremiah goodbye and it looks like Dave zc has also joined us so um Jeremiah the the stage is yours if if you if and and what what s you can let us know how you want to go through it what um Sandy puler did for DPW has put up the list and then um Gilbert talked to it so I don't know how you wanted to present your projects um sure uh Sandy do you have the um PDF the uh the slides um did I oh did you send it to Athena um I think I sent I sent it to a a a group I can if if you have them Jeremiah I can let you uh allow you to share directly I'm I'm not sure Athena said that she might be often on the call so I'm not sure she can hear okay I don't I don't have your slides I'm sorry Jeremiah I just I haven't been on top of my email today so I am just seeing your presentation now I can share your slides for you okay wonderful thank you you're welcome just give me a next slide when you're ready to okay yeah you can uh jump through the next two yeah and then the next one is uh so uh the first up it's probably in a different order um uh the all buildings interior and exterior improvements um this also includes uh some Ada improvements um I requested that it be increased up to the the 200,000 and um what I'd like to see is sort of consolidating some of the smaller um specific projects that were called out and just put it in into this um uh sort of General uh Buck bucket of funds uh so what I end up using this this for is typically if there's anything in the buildings that that go go down uh that's unforeseen uh but also um things that we can start Ren ating um we do have a lot of wear and tear on on various buildings um this is just a a restroom that that uh eventually will is going to get some uh love um Athena if you wouldn't mind going to the next slide it's it's just um just to show you some examples um we have the parking garage needs glazing um we have water issues in our in the head houses at the parking garage reglazing all of this uh this work will help keep that water out and and ultimately keep keep our buildings in in much better condition uh repairing masonry um that's we have a lot of lot of brick brick and uh Stone buildings uh so that's a a constant for us um that that um masonry is sacrificial So eventually uh we do need to get in there and address that uh next slide Athena I think there's just some more um and and you New England um you could see all the way on the right hand side a steel door this is one of the doors that that uh I had to replace over at the Amber police department and I have a number of doors actually over at the north north um North Station the north fire station that that have the same so the they're on uh gr uh ground plane so with with all the weather that uh Beats up against those doors they eventually start to rot out and we need to get those those uh replaced so this this money helps me uh take care of all these projects it also helps me extend some of these other specific projects so there might be a project that we did uh say like the a sprinkler the sprinkler project or the siding project over at north north um North Station well uh I was able to use some these this additional funds to upgrade the lighting uh around the building to LED so we can eliminate some of that the old metal halides uh upgrade it to LED um add uh an upgraded sign to the the face of the building so that's where it has come in very handy um so not not not only am I taking care of very specific projects but also extending some of these projects and just making them much more complete uh next slide so all buildings roof replacement so this is a new one um that's I'm asking for um quite a bit of money but specific money to start addressing the the roofs on all of our town Town buildings um we do have a lot of different types of buildings and a lot of different types of Roof Systems and we really need to start looking at these building envelopes making sure that we're weathertight and before really before we we start addressing some of the major mechanical needs inside the building so if water's getting in it's obviously going to deteriorate the the structure of the building but it also impacts the weather otherization of the building and makes it less energy efficient so if we can keep all the our buildings dry keep a good roof on it then it then it it gives us a good clean building to then uh push our our uh our sustainability goals and and make sure that we get our our um our our equipment upgraded so it's it's really TR just trying to look at each of these pieces I we we can't necessarily take take out a 50-year old uh furnace and put in a brand new electric mean we would save on on fossil fuels but we'd also just be spending on electricity uh because our building envelopes can't handle it so we're we're this this is really just to help dry in these envelopes so that every all these new measures that we take inside are going to be lasting um so it just as you can see we have slate uh a number of our buildings that have slate are are beginning to approach end of life now we've made uh repairs on our slate in the past but we really need to start systematically replacing the Slate so we may not be able to do an entire building in in one year uh with this funds but we could take care of certain sides that might be a little bit more problematic um if you want to go to the next slide so just showing some more you know we have uh some town hall and you can see there's one sad tile on Town Hall there that's crooked and and over this is the bangs where we have um a membrane roof um as well as a metal roof so if we think about the banks community center this is something I presented during a budget hearing you can you caning break up the banks Community Center into three different sections so we have one section that was was uh roofed in 2017 with a product called edpm then we have a a big section that's from 2009 and then and that's edpm and then we have another smaller section that's was 2008 and it's TPO they're all going to age a little bit differently you know they all have a slightly different life expectancy so uh I I I was asking for for this 500 and and having that increase a little bit as we start to take uh it take take that those fundings and repair some of these spaces some of it we can do whole as the entire roof like we just did at at the Amber police department but some areas we may have to section off and just address certain sections per year so if you want to go to the next slide uh APD Chiller replacement uh this one was on uh a few years ago uh the request was made for $450,000 which I received so thank you um we did bring in an engineering firm uh hired an engineering firm to design uh some uh bid documents and to provide some construction oversight for this project uh when they came back with the estimate um the estimate came in at nearly $1.2 million so when the when that forit 450 was originally put on Capital it was several years ago um it and yes things have gotten more expensive but it was also an opportunity to help try pushing our climate action goals or or at least that's the way I saw it I we could replace this Chiller for like kind and just get another a chiller unit similar to to what's there and it's already electrified um and and we would be able to cool the building but I thought it was a good opportunity to help reduce fossil fuels if we were to replace this Chiller with a heat pump Chiller that means that we could provide heating for much of the year as well so if we're providing that heat with this system as well as all of the cooling capacity um that would drastically reduce how much natural gas that we use in that building um and if you remember our our our boilers were replaced in 2019 they are very energy efficient um so I wouldn't want them to go anywhere because they have a lot of life left in them but this Chiller is an opportunity to to reduce our our fuel usage even further um so it does come at a quite a cost um next slide uh Town Hall flooring replacement um uh you could just see there's a a photo of of town hall floor so this one was up up on our our our fiveyear Capital plan and it's it's come up for this year um to to fund some replacement of the town hall floor um most of the building has this uh it's it's called a VCT flooring tile um so it's a glue down product um and it is from the last major renovation uh that that was done at the Town Hall um it does take a considerable amount of work um so you know annually you're stripping it you're waxing it and you're maintaining it uh quite often so for from a labor standpoint it takes a lot of work um but you also can see that it is showing um a lot of wear we have all that cracking um in some places there's more chipping um so when we can we replace a tile or two just so we don't have those big chipped out sections uh but I would love to to be able to remove all of this product and put a more modern commercial product in so it' be it's called a luxury vinyl tile so an lvt uh and these products don't need to be wax it's a non-wax floor and what's great about it is we're reducing how much chemicals we're using in the building so in in that sort of chemical exposure um so no more waxing no more stripping no more buffing um so it's just dry mop wet mop and so that means that that's that gives that's time for my staff to do uh to care for the building in other other manner so it's a it' be a great great project uh next slide uh afd north um so this this is this is me I would say just trying to extend projects I I spent uh quite a bit of time uh over the past year at at afd North with the siding project and then a sprinkler project uh and having done so much work you you start to see how how worn and and uh um well-loved uh some of the the the various uh uh interior finishes are and one of them is the carpet I know the picture doesn't really show much of it but but there there is I could I could have taken a scarier photo I suppose but essentially it's just a a commercial broadloom carpet um so it's a closed pile and and it's it's old so it it is there is nothing left to it um it you can't you can't even raise the pile enough to properly uh clean and extract it anymore that's kind of where we're at so it's you're you're basically walking on concrete at this point um so by if if you were to to fund this um with that 60,000 I could take care of I I pretty sure the whole building so it would be a one-time expense uh take care of the whole thing modernize it it and uh um and I would probably look to change some of those areas out maybe take carpet out of certain areas bring in an lvt again it's easier it it wears wears better and it's easy to clean and you don't have to worry about spillage uh next slide so afd roof replacement so this is this is also a sort of specific uh project that spun off of uh the sprinkler project so as we were uh doing the the sprinkler expansion system uh over at North fire um the second floor of the north fire station didn't have a fire suppression system so um over the Christmas or the the holiday I should say holiday um break for the student uh we were able to get in there and have our a fire suppression system uh installed above ceiling in that so now the building is 100% covered uh while we were pulling some of the tile down in that sloped area you could see in the in the middle of the photo where the the metal roof is uh a the insulation was sprayed directly onto the underside of the roof that roof system um where the roof is sort of that darker color um the metal roof is the darker color most of that insulation has sheeted off and and is no longer there so we have a piece of 10 between the inside of the building well drop ceiling too and the elements so it that that's going to really impact our our uh Energy Efficiency of the building um the the that metal roof is also showing its age um and a number of the areas where it's it's the Fasteners are are uh uh put into the the the roof it is sort of punched through the the metal actual Roof System and now created a little hole so we've we've taken care of some of those and and we've sort of patched it but now when I look at it and go okay so we we we need to reinsulate because and we also have a leaking roof the whole thing needs to go so the intent would be is as soon as the weather is is good to peel back that metal roof insulate so not up against not up against the metal again and and then um put a new metal roof on this this section uh next slide oh so yeah uh so the picture on the left hand side shows you uh the insulation that was blown on directly onto the underside of the the metal roof um you could see how it's it's fallen down uh so it was it was looked like someone cheered a sheep up there there was just big big chunks of it uh and the image on the on the right hand side is the new ceiling so I I put that in there a it it's it's been a great Improvement and uh we don't want to see that wrecked and and that's some of the capital work money funding at work right there and then the last piece is is the sustainability but I believe uh Stephanie will be speaking on that at hers but I like to always just put put it in there as just uh just so everyone knows that when when it comes to these the buildings and we're looking at the buildings that Stephanie and I work work closely together because some of these projects when when it's it may be mechanical but then we we we we're always sort of putting our heads together and going what can we do for energy and sustainability and how can we collaborate and and find money um to to make it a really really complete project and I think that's it questions comments Sarah yeah I have a question about the vinyl tile um replacement in town hall how much of town hall has that I mean at least the public spaces I I I know there there's a lot of wood so where is all this tile and will this replace all of it throughout the building it will likely not replace all of it so the that vinyl tile is in all of the office spaces which would be quite a challenge uh so um fir first floor back behind all the doors um so we know we have all that nice wood out in the in the corridor but behind all the doors is that VCT Tile almost the entire second floor except for the town room has the VCT Tile um and the MZ is the same um part of the stair Wells going all the way down from the second floor to the basement has that that that's uh more public facing so the front of the building and then there's a set of stairs on the back side of the building that's you know more for staff um also has it as well so the attent would be to to take care of some of these areas um so maybe more more public facing areas now um but then when we're looking at doing our energy our energy um upgrades to the building that it not now but maybe in the in the very near future that's when I'll I'll look to address some of these other areas because more than likely staff might have to be uh shifted around so it's a great opportunity to take care of those those then so I I'd want to take care of more public facing areas thank you I imagine they get the most where too but I'm not sure yes Bob you're you're muted I have a question about the the roof all buildings roof replacement I mean we have 3.3 million over 5 years is that like deferred maintenance I mean why do we why are all the roofs suddenly needing attention um in other words it seems to me that a roof has a certain um life lifespan and that every so often you need to replace it but it seems like we're replacing a lot over the next five years so we want to replace a lot and I'm wondering what what the timing is on that yeah and and I I think you know to to speak to that question is is I if we look at the buildings as as they are and and I I'll bring up bangs again is is that building was already taken care of in part so certain areas were addressed in certain at at certain times in in the history so so I think you know the goal would be is to start addressing those as as we go um as far as slate you know some of the Slate is in wonderful condition uh town I'll I I don't know I don't want to retract that but the the Slate holds up very well Town Town Hall slate is very hard uh we're likely to have get 170 to 200 years out of it it's that's just the the type of slate it is however the Slate over at the North Hammer school has already reached into life that needs to be replaced and that's something that I've asked in the past for but that was a $325,000 ask um two years ago or three years ago so those costs are going to increase so I I know it seems like a lot of money um but but I think that's that's the easiest way to sort of take care of these big ticket items in a meaningful way um Town Hall all by itself if we wanted to uh it it would it would far exceed that 500,000 so I think I think what what I would like to see happen is move away for some of these slate slate roofs we've just been you know sort of I I like to say fixing teeth you know we fix a tooth here and there we need to start systematically replacing the tile so that we're putting a tile up there that we're going to get another hundred years out of not not have this one new tile uh amongst a hundred year old roof system so that that's what I'd like to see is that we start taking care of um and it's it's just a very large expense thank you I'm I'm G to follow up on Bob's question a bit and maybe ask something a bit bro broader and I know we won't look at all of this until we're through the full list but if you had to reduce some of these in terms of what you think is the most urgent um could you live with less in the roof bucket um so you've got a non-specified 500 ,000 in terms of what you would do in the next year with it um and then the so I'm going to ask it in those terms and I think a few things that were on a list have disappeared so the bangs windows were on a list there was a van on a list so should we assume everything you just showed us is the current list is is that yeah so I I sent I sent an update um over to Jennifer and just asked that the the van uh be moved to FY 26 okay just I just wanted to verify that so what so Athena if you can post the slide deck we can kind of get the current list of projects but so the question is then um on the I'm looking at the big ticket items that's 500,000 the chiller replacement I think what you told us is that a full system replacement is now in the 1.2 million you have 450 and that gets rid of Chiller and moves to a heat pump moves into a new system yeah um my my question um is on a is there a heat pump technology that's sufficient for that bigger building um you know on because some of them don't work that well in the cold weather so I mean You' need an industrial side and you slid over if it if we weren't replacing the whole system if we were just replacing the chiller what would the cost be you know I'm not saying that we we want to replace the existing one but if we if we didn't have enough money this year and is it is it about to fall apart so do we is this like it's in in critical condition and we have to either buy one like it or or move to whole system so that's the other one so the two could you live with something Less on roof um and uh the chiller replacement just focusing on the big ticket items um as far as the roofs I would say if we if we reduce now we would just be adding later um and and that's I think that's the reality of it and the I I what I my Approach was is to hopefully not scare scare the committee by say so if I if I said you know I I need I need to have bangs I know I keep using bangs but I need to have bangs take care of this is going to cost me a million dollars that that's going to be staggering that that's gonna be scary so what I'm saying is if I get 500 I can take care of certain sections of it and then the following year I could take care of another section that might be problematic so I I just think that if we reduce the number we I would just going to be adding it later um as far as the chiller is concerned I think the 450 that we had is is a is probably on the light side now uh especially after and you know unfortunately I have to say after uh covid um so much of the expenses have have went upped um chillers chillers are and any of that big equipment is made to order now there is nothing sitting around so it does take quite a long time to receive it and the just the cost of it has has gone up and also over the last couple years there has been some changes in the refrigerants and that also has been changing some of the costs of of these uh these items um as far as the equipment now it it it doesn't work it's we're not even in critical anymore it's it's I I can't see us putting any money I I won't it would be fiscally responsible for us to put any more money into that that equipment unfortunately it is that it we're at that point um we've made uh repairs over the years but we've just sort of met the end with it um so we do need to do something um and even with the funding that we have um the the thought was to to to get some type of uh portable temporary Chiller to to get us through this season as we're we're working on the project oh and uh I guess I would say like yeah the heat pump the heat pump yes so if it's a heat pump Chiller you most certainly can it has the capacity the the heating capacity uh to produce enough uh BT per hour on the heat side to heat the building uh it will start to uh lose efficiency as it drops down into those really cold cold temperatures um if you were to change the building to a full vrf system so that's a you know variable um refrigerant uh drive system or VF it that has that may have the capacity to go to even colder um but to go full vrf for that building would probably cost three three and a half million and it would and it would be very impactful because you would You' be running refrigerant lines all throughout the building it' be it would be difficult I don't I'm not seeing any thank you I mean that's the numbers got bigger rather than smaller but that I'm sorry no thank you very much um any other questions on the piece the the one we had asked about last year when we first um just so people know either last year or the year before was the first time this um bundling of lots of building exterior happened as a bucket and one of the things we asked as a committee is and I don't need it now that sort of uh that there be some kind of report on what you did with the money I mean because rather than asking tell us exactly what you're going to do which doors which Windows which so it's it's keeping a record that um because I thought that was an innovation rather than looking at $10,000 and 15 you know small amounts so that was just a question that if you can give it to us then we can reflect it in the report um just on it how this has worked because we we've called it out in past jcpc reports as a really good idea that that we'd bundled them then the other thing just for those who haven't been on it is um there was a move to the capital side of the police department and the fire department being under Jeremiah so that when we're looking at police and fire we get everything but the building so that he's reporting on those buildings not just just the other Town buildings so I I also thought thought that uh the police chief and fire chief both said they really liked that that had happened so it takes the pressure off of them yeah and it just allows me to keep focusing on the the facility side of things so I I think that's it unless I see another hand go up I didn't um Dave watch weigh in go ahead Dave yeah thanks Kathy I'll be really quick I just wanted to put kind of an exclamation point on the chiller on at APD I think Jeremiah did a good a good job of outlining that we've had some productive discussions with Sandy and the finance team on that but um clearly it's a you know it's a dynamic situation that uh has escalated in cost and I think um talking with Rob MOA and talking with Jeremiah the you know the existing unit is is dead it is not coming back it's not a good investment for us but the challenge is you know um it's going to take quite a while to get a new unit in there and this reminding the committee that this is a 24hour 365 day a year operation at APD and so we're going to have to begin chilling that building probably in the next four to six weeks is my guess so we're we're GNA need to do something there temporarily that will have a cost um but I think Jeremiah did a good out uh a good job out lining that we should if we're going to invest that much money that it should be something that is um um uh not using fossil fuel and and greener than the current uh technology we're using there so um I think in terms of priority that that clearly is a high priority for for us here so I appreciate uh you hearing that from Jeremiah and myself thanks thank you um Sarah I see your hand went up yeah yeah yeah just to follow up to uh Dave um does that I I guess Jeremiah said it would take 18 months to get a new Chiller like the one that's dead or updated version that should I infer that the heat pumps or whatever you want instead those are readily available and you could install that this later this summer or or do you need a temporary solution no matter what uh for something that size so that the it the CH it'll still be a chiller um so it it's just it's just a heat pump Chiller so it has some additional technology in it um if it was a strictly vrf that that $3 million uh I think some of that equipment is a bit more available um but this these really large pieces of equipment um just they they just don't have them sitting around anymore unfortunately so so you're going to have to have a temporary correct is that okay okay thank you yep and and I've looked into the Temporaries and we're probably somewhere in the tune of10 to 122,000 per month so assuming that we're going to be cooling from you know maybe May 1 uh you know sometime in September I guess you know it's yeah it's it's a lot hi everybody I don't know who's taking minutes but I'm noting that I got here at 503 hi Anna hi Jeremiah hi Dave hi everybody and we we now have uh acknowledg that you're here and we can hear you uh thanks and since no one volunteered I had to volunteer so we we will need a minute taker next time but Sandy jeremi does that mean that um I think there's 800,000 is down here as uh plan to be borrowed does that mean you would need money some cash frankly uh I don't know X number of months of chilling uh to pay for that uh at some dollar figure and then some different amount to be borrowed to buy the whole new system well I I suppose I've been looking at at the ask as a one whole piece in a in a way so I have the the 450 or we we're I'm looking at that 450 that that was borrowed um that was a capital um that was funded yeah as as as a that's that's my starting point that that gets me uh all my design work that gets me uh it's a start of construction and we can probably look at demolition but that also helps me with that temporary Chiller as we're moving forward I don't know how much each piece each piece is going to be that's fine thank you I I can fill up if I have more questions that that answers my question thank you you know so since I'm taking notes so it's you've got a piece of money that ties you over this temporary phase and the 800 is for the big the big purchase okay yeah Anna um I apologize I am I coming in late and so part of me wants to just wait and I'll go back and watch the recording but I also really want to ask this question so if it's been asked just tell me it's already been asked and I can go back um when you're looking at these roof Replacements uh the police station roof is currently being done and one of the things that has been uh brought to my attention as a concern from folks is that no additional insulation has gone in to that roof um and so and I'm I'm not asking about that project I wasn't on jcpc I wish someone had asked the question then but I'm going to ask the question now for the remainder of these roof Replacements um I'd like to know how your insulating these buildings better than they currently are insulated given our sustainability goals our energy goals all of that uh is there is that possible and how is that included in this offer and if it's a direct one forone replacement of the roof what's the um kind of what's the cost if you I don't I don't know if you know this but the cost differential in terms of adding insulation versus what we're losing in in Heating and and cooling bills yeah so that cost cost differential I I don't know that I would be be able to throw those figures out there um a for just to speak to APD that was looked at um but but ultimately we determined that we can insulate we can insulate from the inside we don't need to put something on the outside and and in by insulating on the inside adding insulation on the inside would actually I I think would help the the building the Energy Efficiency of the building better than putting on it on the outside just given the way that the that that roof system is designed um if we're looking at some of our flat roofs typically that insulation is directly underneath the membrane so if you're pulling up the membrane you're more than likely that it's just part of it it's typically part of the project so if you're if you can see down on some of those membrane roofs you'll see all these little puddles and dips that's where water's penetrated and it started to collapse that insulation so it's it's part of like the the structure of the the building it will have to happen but most certainly it is something that we'll look at and I can assume that the the R value of the me you're saying so you're saying the membrane itself is is acting as an insulator because of the way it's built or that there's insulation as part of that project for example on the on the fire station and I'm assuming that the R value of it is higher like we're improving upon the insulate insulative properties you we will absolutely do our best to to make it co compliant or not better um which kind of gets me Jeremiah I know that you work closely with Stephanie Cho often um I I'd love to know that these projects are not not vetted vetted is not the right word but I think you're probably the person that has the most area that that ties in so closely with our climate action sustainability goals and so I'd love to know if that's something that is part of your process that you're bringing these projects to her to ask is there something more that her know that we haven't seen um is that a partnership that happens for for most things that you're doing or for everything that you're doing yep yep we we meet we meet reg regularly and um we discuss it I I've bopped around a corner and said Stephanie I'm buying flooring should I think about the sustainability when I'm buying flooring it it's it's so it's it's really I feel like it's ingrained and and so it doesn't have to be the these big mechanical systems or or the energy you know I'm I consider our these different types of sustainability um uh or or or this green you know aspect um for all things and that's what that's I Illustrated earlier um with flooring I I would love to update our floors because they are chipping and and showing where but I also want to to do it in a in a meaningful way so we're not using all of these chemicals it's it's a a very easy product to clean that's that's just it'll it'll reduce all the chemicals in the building it's it's helpful for to me it's less work um but it's also helpful for all of the individuals that that are in there I appreciate that Jeremiah and I I appreciate all the efforts you're taking it's it's something I I personally don't find the form to be as thorough as it could be with that particular question and so I appreciate you sharing that you're working closely with Stephanie thank you all yeah so an Anna that didn't just so you know didn't repeat but one of the things Jeremiah showed us in the north amorist fire station is the insulation is a wreck and the effort in that separate piece of month is insulate and fix the roof so it's it's a double um that he and he he we we we can all look at the slide pack he provided a very useful picture when he said a wreck it's it's literally full it did no justice to what the what it was in when you were standing underneath it I just pulled it up so I'll I'll take a look thank you so if there are no other questions for Jeremiah we can say thank you very much and and by the way if if out of this something occurs to you if you send it in to Athena she she just will send it to whoever uh the questions for and similarly if you have a question before the next presentation and you have time to write it up and send it in uh the presentation can sometimes address the issues just um that were raised in your mind when you were reading it so thank you very much yes thank you thank you all so Sandy I think we're to you now um and he sent us you know a new table that shows us what Sarah you can't hear I I haven't received anything I I haven't received anything in the last week oh it it it's in the packet so oh I see okay okay he can pull it up yeah okay so I in general um the practice has been not every piece of what you're going to be seeing is sent out it's just dumped in the packet but we C we can do a somewhat better job of notifying you that additional information has been put in but it's it's a summary table um that is put together that shows us how much money we have to spend there we go okay um just do this too so I think you can um see this table um I'm going to show you this table I want to point out it says draft draft draft right at the bottom uh because everything I'm showing you right now is going to change this doesn't mean anything but it's a first step so uh I think uh essentially what it's showing is that at this point in the process we have uh a difference between the amount of resources we have and amount of uh projects people are asking for of about $2.3 million and that carries through for the next next year goes down and FY 27 go goes way up in 28 and then we actually have a surplus in 29 so we have about $10.5 million more in requests than we have money over five years having said that I would also say that this is a draft and very preliminary because um one I am still waiting to get debt information uh in other words what the projections are for debt uh Sony has been working on that um but she was not around this week um so I was not a I was not able to get any updated information from her I looked at some of her spreadsheets that we share but I clearly have to ask her about what's in those uh because there's just some ambiguities in them that I need clarified um so that is one thing just getting what those numbers are and that's going to mean a couple of things there are are assumptions that are built into this from a year ago about what projects we were going to borrow for uh this spring and would would therefore affect um the FY 25 cash flow that I know are different than what the assumptions were a year ago there were some things that um I think for example there was a fire truck that had been authorized for for money to be barred for um that we're not going forward with at this time um and so we're not barring for it we may borrow it for it a year from now um so they're just things like that they're going to affect these bottom line numbers there are also a number of projects on this list for example doing all these roofs for half a million dollars um my gut feeling is that a project that is as big as that uh is something that in the other communities where I've worked we would borrow for that we borrow frankly for anything over $100,000 um and I'm just need to go back and look at what ammer has done with these things to see if that would be consistent with previous Capital plans or whether uh because I think frankly that is something that I did when I was here but if over the last seven years there's been a change in what we borrow for versus what we pay cash for I want to keep the relative amount of borrowing consistent um because it has implications both for the current year Capital plan and frankly for the future Capital plan so U all of which is to say there are some fairly big questions out there that um I don't have the answers to and mostly it's all all around borrowing um there have been some minor changes uh as we've met with departments asking them what things they can put off or as Jeremiah just said there's a truck for example that he mentioned that should be put off a year um some of those things still need to be put in um so that's where I am on it I think by next week I'll have a chance to talk to Sonia to get those debt numbers nailed down uh and to be able to finish this plan and also present to you uh a plan uh that shows it was the last page of the jcpc plan last year that shows um what existing debt is for which projects so um that that's where we are with that any questions about this so far Kathy yeah I'm I'm waiting to see others but um I think this is great and just so everyone understands I mean Sandy was talking on the actual debt that 2994 that's the number you said that's that's a a shaded number right now we'll come up with that um and then the projected debt is from the P so there is up at top under between the funding and then the spending there's a 2.7 million borrowing is that that's maybe we're borrowing for a certain amount I'm just the question is what is that number that's the total of the thing things that are listed now as being borrowed versus um being paid for in cash and it doesn't reflect the cash flow number because it's just the total amount of borrowing what will be reflected in that down the road is how much what the yearly cost in future years of each of those borrowings but it gives you some sense of the total number of projects for which borrowing is a projected source so I don't think we've received yet so when when we first met there was a long list that actually added up to $10 million 10 million 10.1 million but nothing was shaded yet in that on potential borrowing so just so you've been working on a some things are earmarked potentially for borrowing that it would add up to that 27 yes so for example the 800,000 for the chiller is marked as as borrowing okay okay now that's helpful so we know where where we're having to aim to cut um you on the balancing so so that was my um question on that middle piece so I think that would be helpful when you're ready to share it you know at least the tentative because the if we're looking at the longer list and saying where does the 2 point three come from some of it where might it come from in terms of cuts you've already got some big things slated for borrowing so that's not going to help us on the 2.3 you know it's U so so that's helpful then the other is I think um uh what what you you and Guilford both mentioned that this our state aid money we we got in I know we got a note from Joe comford that there was another 200 or 300 ,000 and what I don't remember is whether it's for the current fiscal year or for the next FIS fiscal year um so it doesn't really matter other than um the Optics of how much we're doing here and then whether we're going to use some orpa money so my my final question is um not going to be one you can answer because I know Paul is still working on it is if there are some really critical things that we can't make this work work that are capital and they're urgent uh have they already been flagged as potential ARA money you know so I know this is part of our capital budget right now so just trying to think of if if we absolutely have to do them and a lot of what Jeremiah said seemed fairly urgent I mean the um and you heard my comment on the the one big one under DPW um I have questions about it you know does it need to be this year is a question so I I'll stop my questions now because it's it it looks really bad when you go out a couple years so any we push off um you know if we're not doing it it's going to show up later I I guess know the other one is when when you get Sonia's numbers on debt the Jones library has now been voted on and there's some shortterm interests that we're going to be um absorbing and and someone probably has an estimate of that just to make sure if it's going to hit us in FY 25 that it's in the actual debt line you know or the projected debt yes so there there it this spreadsheet has a bunch of formulas that Tred to take into consideration those things so that $50,000 in fy2 eventually will have to be updated to make sure that that includes the right number for the joone um but I will just say that it's constructed so that we'll capture that it's just a matter of my now getting the right numbers to plug in thank you Anna so one of the other things Sandy that um I am hoping you might be able to get for us we mentioned it last time the vehicle inventory yes if if we could get that that would be great because I think most of my questions for DPW and um police and fire or well and police are uh could be informed by that is that something that you have I don't want to am I asking am I so let me just update you on the status of that so I started working on it um and I had thought that I could get one of the things that I think people like to see is the the mileage on for the vehicles year to year and I thought I could get that all in one place it turns out that I can't I have to go to each of the Department and ask them and um that is on my list of things to do I haven't done it um but I am compiling an up-to-date list of the vehicles um and just uh I've been checking it against our insurance records um so all of which is to say I thought I could get that to you right away it's taking longer than I thought but I know it's important and it's something uh that uh jcpc and I think the council likes to see so I am continuing to work on it I think yeah even if it's I hear you on the mileage being a being a tough thing to get I think if it's possible to get it for our next meeting that would be um great even if it doesn't include the mileage okay okay that's I'm speaking for myself there but I I guess I'd love to you can just send it to me if you want to wait till everybody mileage but um I'd love to just see even if it just includes you know year purchased and things like that that that's helpful sure thank you and Onna the Guilford presentation he made a I was told no vehicles this year comment so um when people see the vehicle list you'll see why DPW has been particularly a focused of getting getting vehicle they have a lot of them yeah I was gonna say I remember it from last time I was on jcpc um Guilford said no vehic sorry what did what he said he yeah he he didn't have any except for one 250,000 dollar piece of equipment to plow sidewalks he didn't have any trucks or others this year in his list at all I mean and he he basically started out saying I was told no vehicles this year and so then showed his list so I'm not I'm not saying that we don't need the vehicle list but that's been one that we were particularly focusing on you know how how many of each of these do we have so it would be great to get the list I I will say probably 10 years ago when I was here in at town meeting I don't know if any of you was there at the time but we did have I did have to speak to town meeting about replacing a DPW truck and we knew it was time to replace it because the steering wheel had come off in the hands of the person driving it but that did seem an urgent request yeah I I hear that Kathy and I appreciate it um when you look at the the kind of fiveyear plan though they've got four trucks five at least five vehicles next fiscal year so I think that's that's why that the the updated vehicle list is helpful is we're looking at a doozy of of vehicles for them next year so I I'm trying to balance that and thank you yeah no absolutely I'm I'm not saying that the list isn't useful but um for fortunately or unfortunately we don't have a huge number of vehicles to look at this [Music] year any other questions um Athena sent uh did everyone see that she sent um she sent an up dated agenda that's in the packet and it was switching the order of some of who we're going to see see next week um and we can uh I might be able to pull it up if I have it but just pay attention to that because it'll be which which of the pieces that we already have we're looking at um and and and again what what the practice has been you had that Master list of these with little pieces of information but we'll get a a more focused list of specific items because some things are being dropped off that first big big list that we had um some things were dropped off if you noticed from jeremias so any other questions um we we had uh we were notified the the schools needed to get the school people needed to to be leaving um I'm going to see whether we have any we do have one public um but I will see if there are any public comments unless there are any other comments or questions from our group I don't see any so we're open for public comments if if there are any raise your hand I'm not seeing a response so I think with that um we um there was one other comment I wanted to make um about the resident request um I was asked to do this by someone who is listening um we don't have to wait to make a recommendation on the resent request so we hear from departments you know on it it's not like they have a a yes or no we can independently decide whether we want to move these forward or not and at some point they will be put into the larger buckets so I when I asked last time whether there had been any conversations it wasn't that that implied a sign off or not a sign off on it um so I I just wanted to make sure to clarify my questions we're just I'm hoping that some discussion it happened on them and the answers were yes for for the projects so I'm not seeing any hands up so I think unless there's an objection we're ready to adjourn and uh the meeting is adjourned and we we'll need not Cathy Cathy Cathy did you want to approve the did you want to approve the minutes that Jean prepared um uh Athena we we've had a practice unless people want to change it that I review edit and make them final um so we don't have to vote on the am minutes each time but if people want to if they are they should be posted at this point so if anyone has any changes we can make them later but Athena we've been Expediting jcpc to make sure we just have time for projects and he he his minutes were amazingly thorough and I mainly formatted them a little bit rather than found anything missing um so yes Bob yeah I just wanted to mention that uh the KP law has requested that we get a motion to adjourn and a second just instead you know to kind of make sure we we dot those eyes and cross those tees okay so uh I see Anna's hand is up so um I will welcome a motion one once we hear from ana um I just wanted to really quickly note there's uh excellent excellent minutes um my name is misspelled in one place uh where it has two ends it's okay it happens it was a slip of the I know I'm sure it's fine um I just wanted to point that out in case there was confusion there I to my knowledge there was no Anna in the meeting just just me okay Anna uh we'll fix that thank you so the minutes yes Jennifer I move we turn second and now we need to take a vote okay um I'll just go through as I see them my screen Jennifer yes Kathy is a yes Bob yes uh Sarah yes Eugene yes Anna hi Lee yes and I think uh it's unanimous we arej adjourned uh Jennifer your hand is up is that just from before okay we are adjourned thank you thank you bye byebye