15th okay it's July 15 2024 this is a regular meeting of the Town Council with an additional meeting held during this meeting uh and that is with the library trustees the open meeting law allows us to continue holding meetings remotely without a quorum in the council physically present at a meeting location however several of us are in the town room tonight um we must provide alternative access to the meeting and we are doing that by Zoom by phone as a live broadcast on ammer media channel 9 and through live stream given that we have a quorum of the council present I'm calling the July 15th regular Town council meeting to order at 6:01 I will call upon each counselor by name and please indicate that you can hear us and we can hear you and then make sure you mute your mic again uh Pat d'angelus present Anna Devon gothier is absent councelor ET is not here yet Lyn grimer is present councelor hanii present Bob Hegman present councelor Lord is yes presid presid thank you Pam roone here councelor Ryan pres councelor Shane I mean Kathy Shane here Andy Steinberg pres Jennifer to here councelor Walker not present yet okay um and I just want to check the audience and make sure that none of okay um there's no chat room for this meeting if you have technical issues please let Athena and me know and we will decide what to do at that time you want to speak please use the raised hand button um and if there are disconnection issues we will also decide how to deal that the order of the agenda is slightly changed the discussion item I'm on a zoom can I call you back after 8 auson thank you okay um the order of the agenda is slightly changed the discussion item regarding the Jan's Library vacancy interviews will occur now and the discussion regarding the town manager's goals will occur at the conclusion of action items there will be a general public comment period and there will also be a special public comment period related to the proposed Water and Sewer rates at this time I'm calling on Austin Strat chair of the general Library Board of Trustees to call the meeting of the trustees to order thank you Lynn this meeting of the Jones Library Board of Trustees is a call to order I'm going to ask the trustees present to uh indicate their presence Farah here Eugene here Tammy Lee Edwards here thank you we are pleased to welcome our 2K candidates for the position of the Jones Library trustee for the term that will expire in January 2026 they Roman Handlin and Nat Larson and please correct me if I have misstated your name okay thank you both for putting yourselves forward as candidates I'll be managing the interview rotating who we ask questions of first for example the opening statement we will begin with Roman and then move to Nat question one will begin with Nat and then move to Roman okay uh we are going to begin with opening comments and opening remarks and that's limit of two minutes and then after that we ask in your answers to your questions that you speak no longer than one to two minutes there will also be an opportunity for closing comments at the end so Roman we will begin with you for your opening comments hello can you hear me we can thank you I approach the board today understanding I don't get the profile of I don't get hold of college degree but I learned public advocacy through grass in 2016 I wrote successful grants to receive funding for local music nor Arts CIT in 2019 I traveled across the country giving talks on labor rights and wage valy leading the testimony on the house floor in 2020 I served on the editorial board a local news outlet and pro to nonprofit speaking with chamers of coner and working on fundraising tactics for involved most importantly I spent 17 years in my 27 years left relying on libraries like J sometimes with simple internet and printing access help finding jobs and further way con I've seen the political push against libraries from New York City to we're in a time when librar risk find ma we need the new generation I'm atones library at least once a we I'm a r summer reading I have relationship with librarian CS count as a labor Advocate I believe in the importance of long-term careers and material support for our local librar as an environmentalist I believe in library commitment sustainable infrastructure not just for my children's teacher but for my I've worked with each organization I've been involved with promote diversity and believe there are ways beyond what this for has already done create a more welcoming environment of events and opportunities regarding raci justice andity of investment in our librar not just about books but create a welcoming space that will serve every Walk of Life I'm learning for trust because this is my community and I want to be an example for those who may not know how much they can gain by supporting the amazing resources off thank you I'm going to pause for a moment Andy you have your hand up but I want to go ahead and see if Alicia can hear us yes I can thank you Lyn okay and um after we finish with the opening statements can we put the clock up but we'll make sure we don't do that for the next one so we'll move to uh Nat uh Lynn yes could you uh ask Roman if he was uh using his microphone button because I was having real problems hearing him distinctly we're checking thank you Andy we're checking on that right now okay okay uh unfortunately he was not um is there can we proceed at this point Andy yes um it was very echoey and I had to turn my volume fully up okay thank you uh Nat please proceed thank you very much um I'm Nat Larson and I'm interested in serving as a trustee of the Jones Library uh to support the health vitality and future of the Jones which I think is the institution that's the heart of our community and over the last couple of years I've served on the board and as The Treasure of the friends of the Jones libraries and I've been very involved with uh the staff and some of the members of the trustees uh during this time and as a result I've become more and more committed to the efforts to bring the expansion and renovation project to fruition um I look forward to working with the other members of the Board of Trustees to confront the challenges faced in this generational opportunity to renovate and expand the library at the same time I'm eager to help administer the more mundane but critical budgeting personnel and other similar tasks necessary for the efficient and operating health of the library thanks thank you both and we're going to put the clock up now okay our first question goes to Nat please describe your understanding of the role of a public library and the services it should provide to the community now and 20 years in the future thanks well well I think the Jones really should be the Hub of the ammer community I think it should provide programming for all of the residents and the populations including uh from kids and families through teens and seniors ESL Learners and others it should be accessible to people with disabilities uh welcoming to historically underserved groups um it should make available books and other reading and viewing content and provide programming such as classes or group activities and all of these should be diverse educational informative or entertaining I in short think a library should be a place where the world opens up where possibilities are Limitless and from the time that I was a kid that's what a library was to me thank you um we're going to go on to Roman question uh Mr Larson said that really well um I was going to say the library is I think a lot of people think that the library is just a museum for books and I think we can all agree that it's not just that um it's an important third space for citizens to connect with each other Beyond just work in school um you know my library card allows me a place to work and study and hang out uh it's also allowed me when I was really low income to get free passes to cultural centers like Mass Moko where I wouldn't have been able to access um Justified viably with my income at that time um public libraries allow access to educational programs that offer skills for professional development I know Jones absolutely does that um and also when we're in a time when free access to places like public bathrooms and air conditioning are things that we can't take for granted anymore the library is able to offer that um these are basic needs we would not be able to access in a lot of other places at this point and it's really necessary that in moving forward and thinking about 20 years in the future that we're able to continue to offer not just this selection of programming and literature but also these basic public services that a lot of places aren't offering I mean if you're have questioning your identity or your ancestry or you have questions about yourself and don't feel it safe at home or work the library is a place where you can go and access those things I mean for a lot of kids that's the first place that your parents let you go alone as the library like that facilitates autonomy and Independence and self efficiency and growth so I think in looking 20 years to the Future what I would say is to only build those opportunities for further growth for every member of our community and further programming in all of those ways thank you thank you we're going to move to question two and Roman you'll begin the library Board of Trustees is expected to collaborate with and supervise the library director how would you approach this dual role to achieve the best outcome for the library system so I think trustees are tasked with a pretty difficult role of advocating for both the town and the institution uh the director holds an equally important role upholding standards of operation for staff and for patrons on the ground floor and supervising those operations and I think it's important when evaluating the performance of a director or when hiring a director to listen to what current staff and citizens are asking from the library as a whole and let that influence the role Beyond just the opinions of the board members uh as agents of public trust we making policy decisions that the director is tasked with carrying out explaining and supervising and they end up being the face of those policies despite the fact that the board is somewhat more behind them this makes it imperative that while the board is an oversite group there needs to be trust between the director and the trustees to communicate needs across the chain from citizen to Patron to staff to governments that every run of that ladder is in collaboration I think it's really important to listen first to those on the floor those Librarians whose livelihoods are affected by current policy as well as the patrons if that policy is not supporting those who are daily working in Us in the library I would personally expect a reconsideration of the decisions of both parties the uh board and the director to reassess I don't think the director and trustee should be at odds but in agreement about what is best for those who are actually using the library and they're on a day-to-day I think hiring and evaluating a director whose work reflects that current need uh is really important while also that director should feel supported by the board and their ability to properly collaborate with staff and patrons thank you thank you Nat yes well I think in general um this dual role of both collaboration and also accountability I think that's not that unusual I think um in any organization with a board of directors uh that has a CEO or executive director um and the board is responsible for oversight I think uh that's the case you need to collaborate but you also need to hold the um executive responsible so it's really the same uh situation here so in my experience really the most important aspects in that relationship are mutual trust and good communication uh in the time that I've served on the friends of the Jones I think I've achieved that Mutual trust and respect with Sharon uh and I hope uh we can continue that going forward so I think that's the best way to um manage that that dual role thanks thank you um this time we will begin with Nat the Jones Library trustees serve as a municipal SLP publicly elected official and a member of a private entity how would you approach these responsibilities yeah so I don't think the roles are inherently in conflict um the library is part of the town and I think what's good for the Jones is good for the town but having said that um it might be necessary to comply with two sets of rules in in different situations so for example um open meeting law applies since the trustees are a public body um but the library also has to comply with requirements like filing a form 990 with the IRS uh every year uh since it's nonprofit corporation so when it comes to compliance and some of those issues um there are different rules to follow U but overall I really don't think that the roles are inherently in Conflict Roman yeah I agree and I think it kind of goes back to what I said about the library director position I think the answer Falls in compromise between the limitations of the library's budget and the capabilities that the board has knowing things a little bit more intimately about the inner working of the library versus the needs of citizens and taxpayers as publicly elected officials it's imperative to listen to the citizens and the voter base and what the people in the actual town are saying however I think that we On The Board of Trustees are able to understand the intricacies a little bit more tangibly in ways that people who are patrons of the library may not be looking at budgets uh they have access to that they have access to attend meetings but are they is the question a lot of them aren't so I think existing as a publicly elected official within a private entity involves a lot of listening to the community and then bringing that back to the board and to the people on the ground floor in the library to say well how can we use what we know that other people may not be able or may not be watching or be able to understand the intricacies of and how can we uh combine those two things to find a solution that is beneficial to everybody with what we are actually able to do thank you um we begin the next one again with you Roman it's please provide us with an example of when you have collaborated with a group particularly where opinions were in conflict and decisions were controversial Andor raised criticism from stakeholders so I am coming to you both as a former editor of a magazine and a journalist um at a publication locally that focuses on local politics uh we are a project of a nonprofit We are not a nonprofit we're a project of one we do have an Advisory Board um last year we were faced with the issue of the fact that we were focusing too much on one specific issue um I am a labor journalist we were told by The Advisory board that we were focusing too fully on labor and we needed to Branch out to more topics cut some of our labor discussions and and Branch out into City Council meetings policing other things as someone who was primarily focused in a department that was being cut that was very difficult for me I was also an editor working closely with The Advisory board so it was a matter of putting personal opinion and my personal work aside and being able to work with this Advisory Board and with my editorial team to look at what the feedback we were getting was and put aside my personal feel ings about it and change direction of the pieces that I was working on to further talk about cultural issues and other issues that were more pressing so listening to an Advisory Board working with my team and then being able to say let's figure out how to shift and compromise and change what we're doing to further uh serve the needs of our community so that is that is the main answer I will give in terms of Advisory Board and and the concept of stakeholders although I don't have those thank you thank you Nat uh yes so for many years uh I've served on the town's Community Development block grant Advisory Board and in working on that committee over the years um our opinions among the committee members often differed um and our decisions were also subject to criticism because as you may well know um money is always short and there's not enough to go around and there's always going to be criticism uh because someone's going to be unhappy because their project didn't get funded so in these situations my Approach was always the first to try to find common ground where we could uh maybe find the underlying rationale for everyone's individual opinions and once those reasons were shared I found we typically came closer to agreement I know that at times I had changed my opinions based on um comments others made and and listening to their views um but for anything remaining that we couldn't agree on at that point I think it really comes down to a majority vote and I've always thought that if we followed the process and people um have listened that I don't mind being in the losing minority on a vote and I hope others uh feel the same way thank you I'm going to pause for a moment and ask that councelor ET can you hear us and we can hear you yes I can thank you please have the records show that he councilor ate joined us at around 6:15 thank you we're going to move on to the next question we begin with um n n that question the town has a commitment to end structural racism and Achieve equity for all residents what role can the trustees play to ensure the public library is a partner in upholding these commitments yes well the library really should be a welcoming place for all uh but really should be mindful especially of historic racism uh and I think the trustees can influence things like Staffing decisions and programming to ensure that it's inclusive and counteracts historic racism um I would also add that that completing the renovation and Expansion Project to finally provide a permanent home for the Civil War tablets I think that would be an enduring recognition of black history and community in ammer now that uh in itself won't um um change historic racism but I think at least it's a step in the right direction thank you Roman so I also do believe I mean even down to ESL programs and this is something I will talk about in a further answer to a question in the renovation project but I mean at a most base level I believe in the importance of the diversity equity and inclusion campaigns like project ready which is a library campaign focusing on that uh as well as the commitment to cultural programming and staff inclusivity training which I believe is already underway um I believe in allocating further funding to local Outreach programs especially those led by black and indigenous people of color partnering with our libraries and providing workshops especially uh led by uh by individuals directly affected by systemic racism uh that said I think the most one of the most important ways to uphold safe and diverse spaces in our libraries is making sure there's an emphasis on Library policy that does not uh uphold carceral relation to Patron Behavior Uh I believe there should be support within the system for deescalation and conflict resolution trainings Beyond just sensitivity trainings for librarians uh because our Librarians are Community pillars uh able to offer nonauthoritarian non-authoritarian guidance to Citizens and create a space that is welcoming for everybody so I think all of those things including what Mr Larson said just creating spaces for more programming and for even further hiring practices and librarian training thank you Roman the next question what do you think is one strength and one area for improvement in am's libraries so I think that the ESL and citizenship programs I know it's a sister program but those are really incredible deserve all the Applause I know they've already received uh the information for these programs is really easy to access the website is great uh the particular focus on senior citizens and adult Learners is really admirable in my opinion um but I would like to see a more dedicated space within the library for these programs for the ESL programs um there's a lot of limited room in Jones Library particularly not to mention my own library in North ammer which is um within walking distance of my house there I mean these are very small buildings we are fighting for space for accessible space for a lot of these programs so I think the libraries are doing amazing work engaging the community especially with these ESL programs and it would be incredible if we could just have like more dedicated space for those programs to exist at any given time really and those resources thank you n yes well I would certainly Echo Roman's um um statement about the um limitations in the library I think having said that the children's reading room and all the activities a available to the kids in the community I think that's really a great strength um despite the challenges that are now posed by an aging building and failing infrastructure um but on the other hand this building just doesn't provide um an inviting and safe space for teens so I think that's really something that would be um really needed uh and another reason why we really need to move forward with the uh building project thank you now we'll begin with this one what are your thoughts on the Jones Library renovation SL Expansion Project and the repair option yes um so I really think it's imperative that we complete the renovation and expansion uh primarily because of the programming and the vision um that uh this building will will um provide for the community um but the economic reality is also that it's the cheaper option for the town compared to repairing and patching because in this building project we're able to harness the tens of millions of dollars of state and federal and private dollars to build a community center that we can be proud of for generations and we can do this with a town paying less than just fixing the old building uh so we really can't let this opportunity go Roman well I'm honestly goingon to Echo pretty much everything that he just said because we're on the exact same page here um I I know that this conversation has been going on for years now this has been a really long thing the renovation versus repair and I'm going to Echo exactly what he just said that both of these things are going to cost money and the renovation project could cost less and it's going to be a lot more effective um I mean we're faced the two issues that both have big price tages but if we want to see this Library still exist in 20 years and be beneficial to the community I think renovation is the only way to go I mean uh Mr Larsson referenced the children's room uh we have a incredible Children's Program um and we don't have Clear Sight lines in the children's department for parents to see their kids when they're playing and reading I we just hired a new team te librarian director uh we don't have a space as he mentioned for a teen Library program the young adult program is sandwiched somewhere in this nebulous space between children and adults and we're fighting between these two public Community rooms that we have in the library for an immense amount of programming I mean Jones library is growing so fast and they have already outgrown the space they have um we have the opportunity to renovate a space to have far more opportunities for librarians and community members to hold various events and programs and skill sharing uh opportunities and I think while renovation or while repairing would fix some basic problems if we're looking towards the long term of this institution and what it has to offer renovation is the only possible way forward thank you Roman would begin with what strength skills and experience would you bring to the library Board of Trustees so I have spent uh eight years now working with local government and nonprofits on issues regarding labor public services and the Arts in Western MTH and partnering with Community organizations in order to listen to their needs and accomplish achievable goals at the Town state and city level uh county level as well um I've developed close relationships over time with city councilors city servants or civil servants journalist labor union state legislator and my local librarian from Hampshire County and Franklin County and the conversations that I've had with them leading up to this election have been deeply influential for me uh my background is in networking and public speaking and being able to communicate Mutual needs across lines of class race uh gender age and also I'm here as you know a long-term local who is on the millennial gen Z line coming in and saying that I think that more people my age and in the younger generation should be involved in Municipal politics so I think that we have an opportunity to relate and listen to the heartbeat of Western Massachusetts and what the people are asking for and I think that even just speaking about a library trustee board has a great amount of influence to you know influence public policy and I've lived here a long time and I'm coming here as a library Patron and just as someone who this is my home and I care about being able to have a say in that thank you uh Nat yes so I do have a lot of experience um with community and um other um groups and organizations I've served for many years on the cdbg uh advisory committee as I mentioned earlier I've been the treasur for the friends of the Jones library and I've also been treasur and on the Executive Board of the Wildwood Cemetery um and professionally um until my retirement I was working in finance uh first as a lawyer and then investment banker so I'm familiar um with corporate governance and matters of you know budgeting investment and finance and I hope those kind of skills and my background would complement those already on the Board of Trustees thank you so Nat we're going to begin with your closing remarks and then move to Roman yes thanks very much for this opportunity to um be with the trustees and the council um I really think that as we move forward to make the um completion of the renovation and Expansion Project a priority uh we need uh trustees who are dedicated to this um proposition and there's a lot of work to be done but at the same time I'm also eager to help administer the more mundane but critical matters of budgeting and personnel and other things um that the trustees need to work on uh so I'm ready to roll up my sleeves and get to work um and look forward to that having that opportunity and I thank you for considering me thank you Roman yeah so um I I'm going to be fully honest with all of you and this is not a succession but I I did not come here expecting to win um I have read uh Mr Larson's state I think he is an ideal candidate I think he is a wonderful candidate and definitely has a lot more experience than me in finance and fundraising and experience with the friends committee um I am really honored to be here today and I'm really honored to be considered and to be able to speak in front of all of you and also hear all of things that he has to say um I also plan to be here again in 2026 um but beyond anything as much as I would be absolutely honored to serve on this board I also want to impress beyond anything else that I am here to show that people my age are invested in this library system and are invested in this town and I think that it is really important that I am here in front of all of you today to show you that uh not only am I in this Library every day and in this municipality that there are a lot of other people like me who are here and really really care about this library system and regardless of who you choose today I am so excited about the hopeful Renovations for a library that I really care about and that I've been going to since I was 5 years old so that is what I'm going to leave you with but thank you so much for having me here and thank you so much to Mr Larson as well thank you we want to thank both of you for taking the time to join us this evening and for your very thoughtful responses to all of our questions and your opening and closing comments at this point I'm going to ask Athena to place Nat in the audience and I'm going to ask Roman to just move back to the chairs I leave my computer open why don't you just you can put that away now yeah because you'll be able to hear the rest of the meeting um we now have a brief period of time for deliberation and uh we want to hear from both members of the trustees and the council if you would like to make a statement after that we will move rapidly to telling your first choice starting with the trustees and then moving to the Town Council once we finish that if we have consensus Among Us for which candidate will place that candidate's name in motion so are there hand people on the trustees or the council that would like to make a comment at this time Bob hegner yeah I just wanted to say I I that the um both candidates are very strong candidates for this position I think they're both thoughtful people and I think either one would be a good trustee for the library thank you Eugene I would Echo that um I love to have both of them as trustees um it's to me even though I'm not the youngest trustee I'm not the oldest and I really do think it's really important to kind of uh bring younger blood in and I think that would be really wonderful um and I really like the experience that Roman has it's uh it's really really um important stuff super Poise um looking at um Nat the financial chops are are super important to and obviously he a lot of experience so regardless of the closing statement that Roman made that he doesn't expect to get votes which I don't necessarily think will be true um it's going to be a really hard Choice really when we step back and think well who would be a a good addition here thank you are there other comments uh Lee has a hand up then I'm sorry Lee please go ahead um I I'm impressed by Eugene and very moved by the two candidates and whoever does not win is more than welcome to come and join the fundraising activities for the expansion and renovation program for the library are there any other comments Patti Angeles I agree that we have two wonderful candidates here um it's it's an a golden opportunity um I must I'm not sure what I'm leaning I would like to see Roman selected um I think that they are a person who has taken a great deal of risk and really experienced uh life in similar ways to some of the paths I've had and walked on and um this breath of young younger people and younger people who can really deeply see and understand the value of the library feels really important and I like the Sho string are there any other comments from counselors or trustees Andy Steinberg yeah I want to um Echo for U both candidates appreciation for their presentation and for being uh candidates um one factor that I will be considering and it'll become obvious in the vote is that um I appreciated uh uh Bob Pam's contribution over the years because of his incredible experience in fin financial management and his insights into details of financial management and I will be U looking at that question when we get to the uh vote so but thank you both thank you are there any other comments Jennifer um yes just picking up on what Andy said first I really um appreciated uh the interviews and what uh both candidates had to say their dedication to the community in the library is clearly um unwavering as is it as are all of us um but I with the outgoing trustee um I I agree that it leaves a bit of a hole with um the financial uh deep Financial experience and skills that he brought to the trustees but also a willingness to look at library finances apart from any you know I thought um rather objectively and without a commitment to taking the library in a particular direction but just really looking at what financially made sense for the library and the town so as much as both candidates are committed to a certain path with respect to the renovation expansion um you know I would hope and trust that they would also look at what made the most Financial sense for the town and our limited resources thank you additional comments uh point of order um we're having an issue with the audio on the live stream I'm getting messages that the live stream's not working Emer media is working on it but the folks watching on YouTube aren't able to hear us if you don't mind pausing for just a moment while they reconnect the live stream so that Folks at home can hear we can do that but we also are under a time frame I understand okay thank you we're going to take just a moment pause don't anybody leave Zoom is working but evidently the live stream n TV is not I'm hearing the the live stream okay I'm not sure about the channel e amoris media can you hear us sound check for ammer media all right we're good please go ahead thank you for waiting thank you all right are there any other comments from either trustees or the or counselors seeing none I when I read your name please list your top candidate okay Farah Amin Nat [Music] Larson Tammy Eli Nat lson Tammy we couldn't hear you Nat Larson thank you Lee Edwards Nat Larson Eugene Grio Nat Larson Austin Sarat Nat lson Patti Angeles Roman councelor ET not lson I hate to be in alphabetical order um Lyn grimer is a um Nat lson um councelor hanii Roman Handlin Bob hegner my heart says Roman but my head says n so I'll go with n that's very well stated uh councelor Lord r Roman hman uh pamon Roman Handlin councelor Ryan Matt LaRon Kathy Shane Matt lison Andy Steinberg M lson Jennifer toab Roman hanlin councelor Walker Roman Handlin Roman you did very well and we do want to see you back in the next election great that's what we want to hear I'm now going to make a motion and seek a second to name Nat Larson a registered voter in Amis to perform the duties of a member of the Jones Library Board of Trustees until a newly elected member of the Jones Library Board of Trustees is sworn in is there a second I'll second um can I just do a clarification point of order yes is it name a point I just want to make sure we're doing this right under the charter name was the placeholder for the name of the be to a point to a point to a point okay thank you not thank you very much um and the motion's been made and seconded we'll Begin Again with Farine this is to just say I or nay for the motion I Tammy we need to hear you Tammy I'll tell you what give us a thumbs up how's that Tammy will you try unplugging your headphones just no can you unplug them from your computer I I'm not sure that work now we can hear you hear you okay yeah yes thank you Lee Edwards yes Eugene Grio hi Austin satat yes Pat Angelus I Anna Devin gothier oh she's absent I'm sorry uh councelor ete I Lyn gur's and I councelor Hanah I Bob hegner I councelor Lord I Pam roone yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Stein yes Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes it's unanimous again I really want to thank both of you uh this has been an outstanding opportunity for us to hear from all the people of our community um we want to thank the trustees and the counselors for participating in this election process as described in the charter and Austin please adjourn the Board of Trustees Linton thank you and thank you for having us to the council so this meeting of the Jones Library Board of Trustees is adjourned thank you we're going to uh point of order I'm sorry to interrupt again um I'm getting a message that if viewers are on YouTube they should refresh their browser so they see the new link to the live stream we can proceed however right okay uh just a few announcements our next town council meeting is August 19th at 6:30 uh various committees will be meeting however the finance committee will not be meeting tomorrow uh go will be meeting this Thursday and TSO will be meeting on July 25th and yet again before the meeting in August uh we have no hearing tonight so we're going to move to General Public comment if you are in the room and you would like to make General Public comment please make sure you have signed up with Athena if you are in the audience and you would like to make General Public comment please raise your hand at this time I have two on the register in person right at this point there are seven people in the audience I'm going to hold it at that in the interest of making sure we get through the rest of our agenda and let me mention to counselors we have an executive session at the end of our meeting we will not come back into regular session at that time after the executive session but we anticipate that the executive session could take as long as an hour and a half so just keep that in mind as we proceed with the rest of the meeting uh we'll begin with the people on Zoom Debbie please enter the room State your full name and where in amorus generally where you live good evening my name is Debbie Stefano uh I do not live in ammer but I am the chief people and Equity officer for the John P musante health clinic and the bang Center please proceed thank you so um I'm just pulling it up here so good afternoon everyone it's so nice to meet you I just wanted to you know to bring you back uh a little bit about what the John P musante Center is doing for the city of amrest we opened in 2018 and it's one of our primary sites um we are an fqhc uh which stands for federally qualified Health Center as a federally qualified Health Center we were born out of the Civil Rights Movement to provide access to communities whose historically have had barriers to accessing health care we provide integrated Whole Health Care including Primary Medical Care Dental Optometry and Behavioral Health we also have a very strong Community programs Department that connects folks in the ammer community with the service that they need to thrive our community healthcare workers and Health Access Navigators are key to connecting the fol and ammer and the surrounding area to high quality Integrated Health Care through both insurance and services so far uh within the past year we served over 1500 patients here in ammer and that number is growing just some of the demographics of the patients that we do serve 57% of our patients are below the federal poverty level 47% have Medicaid as their insurance over 20% have languages other than English as a home language and over 25% identify as Latino Latina Latina or latinx or African-American we have partnered with many ammer agencies such as Craig stores and the ammer survival center I'm just here tonight to share that we are here to serve amers and its Community we look forward to learning what the folks of ammer need and collaborating with others in the town to ensure we are meeting our mission and just as an FYI if you or anyone you know is looking for a PCP we can help you with that thank you thank you for your comments I failed to mention that we will restrict public comment to 3 minutes and uh I am not not going to spend time on the First Amendment statement I usually make however comments made do not reflect the opinion of the council and we will not respond at this time uh we're going to go to the audience in the town room Alex Cox make sure the green button on yep thank you um my name is Alex Cox I use he him pronouns I live in District 5 in ammer would like to thank this Council for all that they do for the town especially for your all diligence as keepers of the public way and it's in that capacity that I approach you tonight following the conclusion of the streetscape improvements on East Pleasant Street where I live after every heavy rainstorm there's been standing and Rushing Water like over ankle deep spilling over onto the sidewalk and making it very difficult to navigate Downtown um I do not know if this is related to the streets game improvement which do make it much easier to cross the street which I appreciate but wanted to bring it to the attention of the council because it poses a danger to people who are attempting to walk which is in line with the community goals so that's all thank you thank you for joining us Katherine appy please enter the room state your name and approximately where you been yes hi thanks I'm Katherine Opie I'm on Redgate Lane in ammer and I want to start by saying that I'm thrilled that the Tso and the larger Council are working to revise the town's Solid Waste Management bylaw to address a very key issue in the town's efforts to reach its environmental goals and I'm really grateful to those who have been working for on this for over two years as someone who spent many years in ammer both as an elected official and a Community member working to improve communication about important issues in our town I'm also really happy to see that public engagement is one of the important goals as stated in your draft proposal I do have a concern however that the proposal has advanced pretty far down the road without robust Community Education and public review and comment the implementation of this revised bylaw as you all know will have a significant impact on ammer residents as far as I know most residents don't know about the bylaw proposal and it has been my experience that it's still pretty hard to find information about it online and the process by which it was developed I believe for the bylaw to be successfully implemented which I really want it to be there must be Much Greater Community engagement and education so that residents can weigh in in an informed way I know how hard it is to communicate broadly so I ask that you take the time necessary to ensure that the process is as fully Democratic as possible I also ask that you make every effort to make sure the goal of community engagement that's stated in the proposal is fully honored thank you thank you for joining us um back to the v o Conor thank you I don't see the clock okay Vince please state your name and where you live yeah um Vince and O Conor 175 Summer Street Apartment 12 and ammer um so I uh want to make three comments one is despite the calls for toning down conflict over the weekend as the result of the incidents in Pennsylvania inv being the former president I I think it's very important that we not adopt a posture of false equivalency in terms of dealing with conflict second in response to miss Zappy's previous comments I've been a tenant in amist for literally 50 years um the solid waste proposals as I understand them do not even propose to involve um any Apartments which is and I do live in one uh in the process of both composting and more effective uh recycling of things like cardboard which is overwhelming our recycling bins at mil home um and I I agree with her there needs to be better public vetting and an inclusion of the half of the town's residents who live in apartments in the process um third excuse me the this is the fifth anniversary of my proposal in 2019 to establish a commission uh resettlement commission for refugees and Asylum Seekers and I would like to again and the people who have been willing to serve stand willing to serve they speak many languages and have great opportunity to reach out to the community for people who are overhouse to take in refugees and Asylum seekers in the town rather than have the state take over facilities and install them on their own so I would urge the commission to establish a a commission of the Council of the council in so far as it's headed by a council member including 14 other residents and um and make an effort to reach out to the agencies that are looking to house refugees and Asylum Seekers who do not have relatives and here or in the rest of the United States and uh and and welcome them to amorist than your time is up thank you was that the signal I didn't realize that was the timer sound um for drama okay U we have a new warning sign um Ken rosenfall please enter the room state your name and where you live thank you president Grier Ken Rosenthal I live on Sunset Avenue it's time for the ammer toown council in Jones Library Library leadership to tell our town that the plan to demolish a large part of our library and replace it with an even larger addition will not happen the original design for this now about a decade old no longer makes sense that's because it's large and expensive footprint does not sufficiently acknowledge the changes in how information is collected by libraries and retrieved by its users who much more often than before are off site and don't set foot in the building just consider how often we participate in official meetings and friendly Gatherings via our home computers and even read our daily and weekly newspapers this way and just see now how I'm participating in this meeting not in town hall but in my home office the initial effort to bid this project resulted in just one unacceptably large bid because the Jones Is Now spending more than $500,000 on Architects to Value engineer the plans in anticipation of going to bid again in September there are two other critical reasons to recognize that rather than Demolition and expansion a plan B Repair is the only way to proceed first the designers charged with value engineering admit that to save money their revised plans will do two terrible things they will destroy significant original now historic elements within the library and they will eliminate planned improvements that were intended to meet energy sustainability requirements Amis residents cannot want this these things to happen happen second those very changes will cost the Jones at least $2 million in historic preservation grants the Jones plan to receive that they know now know they will not receive Hammer taxpayers would have to make up that loss the Jones library is not the only library in this three college town where so many of us use our campus libraries first it has a special role sitting prominently in this town center and appealing to all of us but especially to those who don't have that on campus access we all want our Public Library to be able to serve everyone well but it cannot serve us well when its architectural Integrity Integrity is destroyed its energy sustainability is ineffective it fails to anticipate changes in technology and it costs taxpayers so much now and in future years that other key elements in Amorous like our public schools are deprived of the funds they need I know it's hard for public officials to admit that things have changed and that their decisions must change I just pray that you the ammer toown council and Jones Library leadership will be brave enough to make the need a change thank you for listening thank you for joining us Ken Arley please enter the room state your name and where you live hi my name is Arley gold I live in South and I just would like to say to Mr lson um I hope that can you hear me we can okay some something appeared on my screen um that Mr Larson can keep an open mind to the repair option because if the financial aspect of this project doesn't work out that that's what's going to be on the table and there is a committee working on a plan B um and this is a real possibility for our town that we are going to have to deal with the building that we have and um that would actually help us in certain ways we wouldn't be violating the historic preservation um requirements if that were the case um so there are positives to going with the repair option it's not not all terrible and the repair option could also do some fundraising to offset costs and the expansion is not always necessarily going to be the cheapest there are expenses associated with it Beyond like the interest on this large loan which I learned today is about $8 million it's a wash I think I can't really say that that one is cheaper than the other but um I just would like an open mind and to really understand that there is a real possibility that this is going to be the route that has to be taken one last thing The Net Zero Readiness the grid is not clean yet getting Community solar credits is great it's a step in the right direction the only true really clean energy is making your own you know with solar panels on the roof so anyway thank you very much Harley thank you for joining us Hy startup please enter the room state your name and where you live hello everybody um my name is heti startup I'm in District One in north ammer and I want to congratulate Matt lson on his new position it was very interesting listening to both of the presenters um I'm so glad I attended this meeting on Zoom um I'm very conscious of the change in vocabulary that has happened over the last couple of months from Demolition and addition to renovation what is happening right now with the value engineering proposals is very far from a renovation and I just feel like I would like to ask the Town Council membership and the library trustees um to think about the possibility of all of these options um and coming down on something that is going to preserve the historic Integrity of our library which is as far as I can tell extremely unique in our country um and I also think that we need to look at the sustainability issues that are we're going to lose with value engineering um I Heard on a meeting um this morning that they were using the word ve well isn't that interesting it doesn't sound so bad when it's called ve but boy does it sound different when it's value engineering um so I I just feel like um I wanted to express my opinion um and I'll leave it at that thank you thank you for joining us Teddie there are two more people on zoom and we will end public comment with that shony Bal Mill please enter the room state your name and where you live hi everyone shy BM District 5 I just want to thank you all again for your hard work for our town uh I wanted to speak today to the Wast Hall of BW updates discussion and as a former TSO member and co-sponsor of the Wast hallo BW changes I know firsthand a lot of hard work has gone into uh this process up to this point and having attended the last few TSO meetings I have sensed the frustration I understand the frustration with this process two years is a long time and we still don't have a b law that's been passed so I hope that my comments today can be helpful especially to the new Tso and Town Council Members so in my comments I wanted to reemphasize Why Town Council needs to make this a priority and also uh giving keeping in mind that staff time and resources at hand and also I wanted to um offer certain steps that need to be taken before Town Council can vote on it based on the carryover memo that we the last DSO had written so what is needed um clarifying that the also I want to clarify there's a lot of confusion amongst the public as we heard from Katherine appy one of the speakers earlier that the draft those are working drafts of the BW but in people's minds it feels like this is already a done deal however I just want to clarify that the charter requires uh the process to include a finished bylaw uh the second point I agree completely with Katherine appy that something that's going to affect everyone should include um listening sessions to get residents feedback now also want to quickly clarify there are two working drafts of the the bylaws before the TSO one was initially proposed by the sponsors and since then there were many discussions within Tso and I personally looked at Best Practices got feedback from Mass D coordinator Susan Wade and looking at different towns and we updated the original bylaw to include more specific language around to create a more robust paid system annual reporting so basically the intention is the same as the original but the updated balog gives more clear guidance to the town manager with regards to um the RFB the the third thing important is that the the carry of a memo had the updated byaw and an appendix of decisions that need to be made and it is really important for the TSO now because we were waiting for the rfis and could not go through that appendix of decisions but like we did for the rental registration bylaw where we took each section similarly the TSO now needs to go over the SE sections to answer what they can and that will provide guidance to the town manag shenie your time is up just last thing I just want to say that I'm here your time is up okay thank you all right Jeff Lee please enter the room state your name and where you live hi I'm Jeff Lee I live in South ammer and I tuned in at 6:m uh I went by the agenda that was posted on the town website that said that public comment would occur before the uh trustee decision apparently it was decided that public input was not necessary but what I was going to suggest was that um support for the renovation demolition Expansion Project is not necessarily a qualification in fact given the current circumstances could be considered a liability um I'd remind everyone that the trustee that Mr Larson is replacing was Robert Pam who was uh uh truly an independent thinker he wasn't afraid to oppose the trusty majority when he felt it was called for he didn't just tow the party line um at time at one time he supported the project because he felt it was financially feasible but he came around to opposing it when he felt it was detrimental to the library finances um okay secondly I'd like to say that the citizens of ammer shouldn't have to file a public record request to learn that the library director has had in her possession for eight months a document a letter from the director of the Massachusetts historical commission uh describing several adverse effects to the Jones Library um which the letter stated is and we all know is listed on the national and state registers of historic places um this information reached the director and assume I assume the trustees uh back in November before a decision was made to increase uh funding for the project by $10 million before uh two motions were defeated to stop the project and to continue without uh value engineering changes um so and also the uh trustees uh rushed into a commitment of $550,500 from their endowment to eliminate many historical uh preservation features which is going to be um opposed by the preservation bodies please take that into consideration and um please start considering the opinions that you're hearing that are opposed to the library project thank you thank you for joining us that concludes public comment we're going to move immediately to the consent agenda I'm going to ask the Clerk of the Town Council to put the consent agenda on the screen given its length however I am NE it's necessary that I read it so I'm going to place it in as a motion if somebody would like one of the items removed please don't remove all of the nominations just indicate which one you want removed okay um so to move the following items in the printed motions thereunder and approve those items as a single unit 9. a.3 waiver of Town Council rules of procedure rule 8.6 for the approval of town manager appointments to the Board of Health 9. A1 to4 approval of the following Town manager appointments Elementary School building committee Melissa zawadowski zawatski thank you finance director for a length for a term to last the length of the building process Jones Library building committee and Melissa Sadowski zat zawatski thank you I'll try it again Finance director for a term to last the length of the building process Board of Health Betsy Brooks and Jack JY for terms to expire June 30th 2027 affordable housing trust Alger calark for a term to expire June 30th 2026 Grover Wyman Brown for a term to expire June 30th 2026 six Board of license Commissioners maryan Walker for a term to expire June 30th 2027 Community Development block grant advisory committee Suzanne Schilling for a term to expire June 30th 2027 Community preservation act committee Timothy Neil for a term to expire June 30th 2027 Community safety and social justice committee Deborah Ferrara for a term to expire June 30th 2027 Conservation Commission um Andre gadera for a term to expire June 30th 2027 Michelle la la la uh for a term to expire June 30th 2027 cultural Council Christy Anderson for a term to expire June 30th 2027 uh elanar Walsh to for a term to expire June 30th 2027 energy 2025 thank you so much for the correction energy and climate action committee Donald Allison for a term to expire June 30th 2027 historical commission Anthony BR brinberg for a term to expire June 30th 2026 Melia rasnik for a term to expire June 30th 2027 Human Rights Commission rwana KH for a term to expire June 30th 2027 local historic district commission Nancy Ratner for a term to expire June 30th 2027 Elizabeth sharp for a term to expire June 30th 2027 mson Memorial Building trustees Alexander Neer for a term to expire June 30th 2027 public Arts commission Dara baros Dixon for a term to expire June 30th 2027 public trait shade tree committee Shana king for a term to expire June 30th 2027 Henry lepen for a term to expire June 30th 2027 Recreation committee commission Sanjay arwad for a term to expire June 30 2027 Matt Kaine for a term to expire June 30 2027 registry registar of Voters Jacqueline Gardner for a term to expire June 30 2027 resident advisory committee Anastasia ordz for a term to expire June 30 2027 water supply protection committee Brian yelen for a term to expire June 30 2027 and 11 A to B approval of the following meeting minutes March 27 2024 special meeting April 1st 2024 regular meeting hold on Mandy Joe I see you're there um okay um Mandy Joe you have your hander I have a point of information question um if I want to make a comment on one of these do I need to remove it from the consent agenda just to make a comment technically but in the interest of time no please proceed on my comment yeah oh okay we're not going to do the comments when we get to it in the agenda then okay um you haven't asked to remove it so I am not going to remove it if I can make a comment um which is given that I I guess I want to say that I thought it was inappropriate personally for counselors to weigh in on appointments prior to the manager making appointments when counselors do not know who all applied for position so to put weight onto a name for an appointment without knowing all of the information I just thought was inappropriate thank you for your comment are there is there a second I'll second thank you we're going to move to the vote we begin with councelor ete i Lyn Grier's and I councelor hanii I Bob hegner I councelor Lord I Pam roone yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes Pat Angeles hi that's 12 in favor and one absent we're going to move to our next item on the agenda which is a presentation regarding Town services and Outreach committee it is merely an update we are not doing any voting tonight but if you have questions you can either raise them tonight or you can send them to Andy Steinberg chair of the committee uh Andy yes hi back so um I'm going to start and then uh uh Jennifer's uh who's also a co-sponsor um and is also on the TSO committee is going to um follow follow what I'm going to say and we're going to try and be very brief um there were a couple of items that were placed in the packet to try and um give some explanation and with that with the hope that we wouldn't have to go through all of the information that is presented um there but uh the original referral included a very extensive presentation that was presented by the um sponsors and uh I give Shel and ebal Mel the credit is being then uh a member of the council Who U did the Lions share of the work on the presentation that's in the packet and explains it the other is the um MMA U meeting notes but briefly um in 2017 the as you've heard the refu and recycling management committee uh developed a solid waste master plan um and was presented to the select board um at that time I was the uh select board leas on to that committee and a member of the select board um and uh the um basics of it uh I think that uh Jennifer is going to explain what we were do and U what we were um we then uh moved to a long period of time after was uh originally introduced in 2022 and with a very basic bylaw change to the current bylaw um T it was assigned it was referred to TSO and TSO took a lot longer um in addressing it than um some of us would have liked um but I think it was necessary for a couple reasons uh one is that there were some very other very important policies that were being considered by Tso and there was just a matter of how much the um committee could take on it at any given time and the other is the complexity of the um issue itself and the feeling that we really needed more information so that the original concentration was to do what is known as a request for information and sent out to uh waste hallers um a uh questionnaire of the um as as them if they would be willing to respond and three did and um provided really valuable information but not a complete set of information because in the end what it didn't include was the pricing element and the cost elements that had to do with it um and at the same time U councelor Bal mil as a member of the TSO did a lot of very important important work on identifying uh best practices and it thinking through the bylaw as it was originally proposed and how it might be um expanded and uh uh to become a more complete and understandable bylaw um TS never had the opportunity in the 2023 term to uh really discuss the B LA and the current TSO we have not uh focused on the actual bylaw that is something that will be done in the future uh we um very much think that a request for proposals and getting back an actual Proposal with pricing information and knowing exactly what would be offered um doesn't have to be accepted but that is what we are intending to present to you in the next um uh meeting in August um so this is kind of in the nature of a first reading to proba kind of just give you an overview of what this is about and as uh Lynn has indicated um invite your questions that don't have to be submitted at this meeting they'll be noted if you make them but um it can be done later um and give you some time to think about the questions that you would like to pose but uh what we're suggesting and we'll explain more fully for um is is as we go along before the August meeting is that uh we do a request um for proposals um see what proposals we get back um with real cost information and um begin um an analysis of how we could move forward in the most expeditious way uh the last comment I'm going to make and then turn it over to Jennifer is is that um I do acknowledge that there is uh also as it was discussed um earlier in the in the meeting in different format um feeling recognition that we need to use this time to um also reach out to the community inform them about the benefits that we seek and um an honest um explanation of what about what the change would mean and hear from the community and hear questions that uh come along and that that uh is something that also uh when we talked to the town manager at the last TSO meeting which was not reflected in the report because the uh report was um it was just on Thursday so we didn't have time to completely update the report to um get into all of the details but he raised the question of getting um assistance also on the community Outreach piece so Jennifer uh why to turn it over to you uh thank you Andy um so I'll just add a bit uh you know uh briefly to what Andy just said that in TSO we have spent probably the last year um working with the staff the staff really taking the lead in issuing a request for information to see what if there were vendors that do waste collection that would be interested in serving uh the town of ammer um if we were to transition this was what is in the proposed and it's um the proposed amendment to General bylaw 3.3 it's now called The Refuge collection and recyclable materials bylaw and as part of the proposed amended language it would become the Refuge collection and recyclable and compostable materials bylaw because um having Universal curbside compost pickup would be um an integral part of the service that we hope would be part of um a improved waste collection system so as per um the former amoris refuge and recycling management committee that met uh started meeting seven years ago um uh together with those municipalities who were part of this year's um Massachusetts Municipal Association conference there was a special session on municipal waste uction um those municipalities as well as zero waste Amherst and our energy and climate action committee um all uh support the goal of the proposed amendment to our general bylaw 3.3 to reduce um the amount of waste that amher sends to landfills and to be able to reduce the you know trash that individual households and residents um discard on a weekly or bi-week basis so a part of this the revised um bylaw that we are that has been that we are not proposing today because we it is not in final form but that we have been working on would involve the town contract going out for a competitive bid so that we can see if we can get the best price possible for uh property owners and um residents in town that would be a competitively bid price and contract that the town would administer and we would ask that the fee structure be on a what they call pay as you throw basis struct fee structure so that incentivizes households to reduce the trash that they throw away just like you know we keep our air conditioning we only use it when necessary and we you know keep it as high as we possibly can we turn lights off because we pay as we use and that is the kind of system we hope to have for our trash disposal and also to have curbside compost pickup be an integral part of the service so just as 20 or more years ago it seemed very novel to recycle and that that could be burdensome that's something we all do now it's kind of second nature and we would like composting to be a part of that so we can reduce the food waste and other Organics that find their way into our landfills and waste stream so we so over the past um year several months we did receive three three vendors responded to our request for information so we know that there are three uh waste huler um companies that are interested and would like to do business with the town of amorist so they shared with us the kind of service that they can provide and that they are providing to other municipalities in the area but it did not include pricing because that's not what we requested and as we've been going around in discussions with Tso and it's been very helpful having members on the committee that weren't um during the last Council session to uh bring fresh eyes to the discussion is that we really couldn't come back to the council and ask you to vote on adopting the bylaw one we know we have to do a lot of Outreach to the community and that's something that we plan to do it's going to be a good year or so before we're going to be in a position to be probably voting on the um you know final bylaw and during that time we even spoke with the town manager during the last TSO meeting that we would probably retain a consultant to go out and really you know do very systematic and deep Outreach in the community to hear what residents would like what they feel they could live with and educating the community on uh what the goals are and what the mechanics of such a a program could be but we also realize that we're kind of going around in circles because if we come back to the council and ask you to vote on an amended bylaw you're going to ask us what the cost is and we can't really provide you know hard and fast figures for what it's going to cost without issuing a request for proposal and ask the venders what the fee would be so the town in several conversations with the town manager he agreed that it probably made sense to ask the council and we're not asking you at this meeting we will come back with a more in-depth presentation on August 19th at our next meeting and of course as Andy said welcome your questions in the interim so we can respond as part of the presentation on the 19th but that we would ask that the council to recommend that the town manager issue a request for proposal so we can get the pricing information so we know both if it's possible what different combinations of services will cost us and so the council can make an informed decision and we we didn't fa we could come back to you without having that information and that there was no other way to really get that information so that's that brings us to where we are that's our update and we'll come back um you know with responses to any questions that you may have and I think Andy said if you could get those questions to him by next Monday morning TSO is meeting a week from this Thursday that would be very helpful and that's where we are Kathy thank thank you all for uh staying with us over the last I guess couple years um um uh in addition I will write up my questions but um do you want to take questions now as well general questions in a sparing way yes okay I'll do L Lyn wants me to be tur is what I looked at the MMA document which I thought was really helpful because they gave a couple examples of towns including Long Meadow that seems to have done it well and another that didn't do it so well in terms of taking it over so my my question is going to be uh to try to quantify the staff requirements at the town so not just what we'd have to pay for the recycling it looked like we are going to need a consultant to help us draft the RFP and in Long Meadow they structured it in a particular way with different services so when will we decide how we want to do with it um I think this completely eliminates the ability not to contract with anything but just get a sticker from the town and go to the dump um unless I'm so I don't know how many residents currently use that vehicle where they're and then they're paying for their bags of trash but otherwise they can do everything um and and so Jennifer as you said I've always asked what's the cost versus USA um and then finally if if it's bid and the dollar looks like it's at or higher than what we're now paying does this stop everything or do we go back to the drawing board okay we're not going to try to answer those questions just raise them I will send them in because uh these are all going to matter I think to Residents um as they consider this thank you ding Joe councelor hanii um some of the similar questions I won't get too far into details I will send them there but but it would be very helpful to see the current draft of a bylaw that TSO has been dealing with because I assume it's not the one that was presented two years ago but maybe it is I don't know um my questions are sort of based on that um Kathy touched on one of them which is does using the word Universal Curbside To Me implies that the transfer transfer station would no longer be an option for throwing out trash um so is it an opt out is it an opt in what cuz Universal to rfps seems to mean everyone must um so there needs to be a lot of I have a lot of questions around what would actually be required for residents to do or not and if we're double operating a transfer station and this again and what is the cost what is the cost towards a transfer station but um some of my other questions relate to what else are we doing and are we looking at other ways to reduce waste the MMA presentation seem to show that getting people to recycle what's already recyclable and required to be recycled would actually make more of a difference and an impact than requiring curbside composting from the chart because that that 30 39% of our Solid Waste is recyclables and only 29% is compostables um and so what are we doing to enforce our current recycling bylaw and how are we enforcing that things like that to because just creating the law clearly doesn't reduce the waste that we could be um but it might increase costs to everyone are we looking at other requirements to reduce wastes things like requiring businesses that sell recyclable containers particularly food and drink establishments to provide composting recycling containers not just trash containers are we looking at providing composting and trash containers on our own streets um in our public trash areas in downtown to provide Recycling and all to help with things like that um what about requiring hotels to provide compost and recycling in rooms instead of just trash containers things like that um it's not just about households it's about businesses it's about people on the go and everything too so what can we do Beyond whatever this waste hauling is is part of my question because I don't think we should ignore that if we put out an RFP do we have to actually do a contract and I guess I'm still confused with how can we put out an RFP if we don't know what the bylaw would require um and so I it goes back to what what Jennifer was saying about we're in a circle but if we don't know if we're going to have an opt out how do we put out an RFP because don't the waste haulers need to know how many households they'll have um and and things like that um if we don't know if we're going to require local processing in a bylaw which the original draft bylaw required for local processing of compost how do we put out an RFP um things like that so I'd like TSO to answer some of those questions on how are we going to determine what the RFP is asking for if we haven't actually made some decisions on what we would actually want to require thank you I'll send the rest of my questions to the chair great um Pam roone thank you uh this is actually a question for uh data from the town itself and will the town be able to provide us the number of uh current dwelling units as a baseline for anything that's proposed here okay uh Jennifer we're not trying to answer questions I just want yeah no I just because I don't want this hanging out there for the next two weeks for for me for the Comm Community there this is based on the assumption that the transfer station will remain open that will continue that we this is all based on the assumption that the transfer station will remain open and an option so as several members of the Tso and even several a couple of sponsors of the bylaw currently Avail themselves of the transfer station they don't do not right have curbside uh trash collection that will continue to be an option for Town residents so by Universal composting we meant what I think has always been meant by that is that a basic part of the service would be that the waist huler as they pick up recyclables would also pick up compostable material I'm going to take another question from Pat Angeles no I have several have already been asked but I will put them in my list I want to go back to the exemptions um that have currently existed in terms of um um subdivisions or or um planned communities um neighborhood associations that's the word they're not included in the original proposal and apartment complexes are not included and well phased in but why should um Mandy I think you live in with a neighborhood association why should she get to phase in later than me um when I'm a single household I'm not part of an association the trash gets picked up at my house and it gets picked up at her I support this um idea very much but I am very concerned that given the time frame that we have that we're still saying oh well we need the exemptions for neighborhood associations and apartment complexes and businesses so I want to understand why um and if we're going to educate the public why aren't we educating businesses homeowner assoc associations Etc are there any other burning questions people feel they need to state in public I will just tell you that my list already has 14 on it so um don't be shy I okay any other questions or comments Bandy Joe you have your hand up okay Pat you're also done okay uh we're going to take up the next um two AC the next three action items uh so let me just begin and we have joining us tonight um town clerk Sue adet thank you sue for joining us we're going to begin with the first one I'm going to place a motion on the table um and the motion is to approve the change in polling location for Precinct 1A from the north Z Church to the north amoris Library beginning with the September 3 2024 State primary until further notice second is there a second I believe you second Advantage you thank you are there any questions or comments Kathy my one comment is I think this is a great idea so and uh for a variety of reasons you put in your memo already in including parking but it's it it is a much smaller room than the current space but I'm assuming you've looked at the flow of people through it and you can handle it um so I think it it overcomes one of the big disadvantages of the current site and plus it's a gorgeous room and everyone should get to see it it is beautiful I went up there and and tour the location and I was so excited because it was you know when you start making a list of pros and cons there were no there were no cons they were all pros and I says this is a no-brainer so yeah I'm excited I'm happy to answer any other questions you may have um but yeah the memo says everything all the issues that we've had with the Zion Church that we've had to deal with over the years and the new location would resolve all of those things okay are there any further questions from counselors seeing none I'm going to begin the vote with myself and I councelor hanii I Bob hegner I councelor Lord I Pam roone yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg hi Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes Patti Angeles hi and uh councelor I it's unanimous with one councelor abson the next motion is to approve the warrant for the September 3 2024 State primary election propos second prop posting is there a second second okay are there any other questions or comments seeing none I'm going to move to a vote councelor hanii I Bob hegner I councelor Lord I Pam roone yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg hi Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes paty Angeles hi Council r i Lyn grimer is an i it's unanimous with one absent Sue thank you for joining us Pam you have a question yes uh question for Sue before she leaves I have asked if it is permissible for counselors to serve as uh uh at voting booth uh voting poll places and um even if I mean if it's if we're not on the ballot it it's not I I actually saw Town manager's email and it's in the charter I forget which section I looked it up um you cannot hold a second position that earns money and because election workers yeah election workers have to become employees they earn money so I'm afraid not I love the fact that you'd want to help though but um no and you I think it's a one year cooling off period as well when you when you um cease to be a yeah yeah so no oh yeah soe thank you for clarifying that issue I think there are many of us that have asked and okay Sam thank you you're welcome have a good rest of night thank you thank you for joining us yeah we're going to move on to the fy2 water and sewer rates and I just want to note that we're required to do a public comment period for this um however I'm going to place it in motion seek a second move to public comment and then come back for the vote okay in accordance with General bylaw 3.62 water use regulations having heard public comments specific to the proposed amendments on July 15 2024 notice of which was posted on the town bulletin board for at least 10 days on June June 21st 2024 and notice of amendments published to the newspaper on July 1 2024 to amend the water use regulation appendix as follows by replac ing the effective date of July 1 2023 with July 16th 2024 by replacing domestic water rates of $5 per 100 cubic feet with domestic water rates five25 per per 100 cubic feet and by replacing agriculture water rates of $5 per 100 cubic feet with agricultural water rates of 5.2 25 per 100 cubic feet is there a second second I want to also note that there is a second motion and it says exactly the same thing and it is regarding the sewer use regulations okay and in that case again we're replacing the date and the domestic sewer rate will move from 5.5 $55.50 per 100 cubic feet and the domestic sewer rate um will move to five 85 per 100 cubic feet so with that I'm going to ask if there's any people in Zoom or in the audience who would like to make public comment point of I guess I have a question is this public comment for just water or is this for water and sewer for water and sewer thank you for asking for the clarification that's why I mentioned both of them I'm looking for raised hands seeing none I'm going to go back to the first motion which has to deal with the water regulations and did we have a second okay okay are there any other comments from counselors okay seeing none I'm going to move to vote Bob hegner hi councelor Lord hi Pam Rooney yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg hi Jennifer toab yes councelor Walker yes Pat dangeles hi uh councelor ET I Lyn Grier's and I councelor hanii hi unanimous with one absent the second Motion in accordance with General bylaw 3.61 sewer use regulations having heard public comment specific to the proposed amendment on July 15 2024 notice of which was posted on the town bulletin board for at least 10 days on June 21st 2024 and amendments were published in the newspaper on July 1st 2024 to amend the sewer use regulation appendix a as follows by replacing the effective date of July 1 2023 with July 16 2024 by replacing domestic sewer rate $5.50 per 100 cubic feet with domestic sewer rate $585 per 100 cubic feet is there second second are there any comments or questions from counselors seeing none I'm going to move to a vote councelor Lord I bam Rooney yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg hi Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes at the Angelus hi uh councelor ET hi Lyn grimer is an i councelor hanii hi and Bob hegner hi that's unanimous with one absent um um one more water and SE motion oh thank you I knew I had to be missing something to adopt approval order FY 25-10 and Order setting Water and Sewer rates to be effective July 16 2024 as recommended by the finance committee report of June 14 2024 and shown on page 13 of the motion sheet is there a second second any questions or comments okay then I'm going to move to Pam Ro yes Council Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg I Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes Patti Angeles hi on uh councelor I Lyn gur's and I councelor hanii I Bob hegner I councelor Lord I it is unanimous with one counselor absent you have now performed your duties as commissioners of the water and sewer of Amer all right um let me just check something one second [Music] um let's take a um 9 minute break and be back at 8:00 okay please turn off your mics and your videos and turn the video back on when you return e e right for than thank you 20 Happ e e for e as you return Please turn your videos on up to view yes and go to Gallery the word view it should be in the black where is on all right we're going to continue I just want to make sure um Hala are you back yes I am thank you uh everybody else is in the room thank you so um first of all we're going we're going to have a very brief discussion on the town manager goals uh you received a very lengthy set of spreadsheets I understand there may still be some corrections but I don't think those Corrections make a difference um so thanks to all of you for responding the goal of spreadsheets is to um compare pre- Retreat and post Retreat noting the post retreat was two months after the retreat the yellow shading were those goals that rank the highest subg goals and it includes um both looking at the ranking and the average and also the x's and the slashes the orange shading were those that ranked between 2.5 and three so they would be the next highest we'll review that in a moment the X's if they're under your name mean that for the first five top ranked sub goals there's an X for the next five ranked sub goals there's just a slash so I'm going to um make a few observations and then if you would like we can actually review the sheets the main thing I want us to do tonight is to identify areas where we feel as a council we would like to have further discussion okay so these are my observations um there's not much difference between pre- Retreat and post- Retreat interestingly enough things like schools and the library aren't even ranked high it's because most of us think of them as being in process and so forth um however on another very serious note there are items that the council has either taken action on or has under under consideration that are not reflected in these goals and yet they were reflected in carryover memos or they have consumed significant staff time including things like speed limit and traffic calming the high school track nuisance property although it is considered part of rental registration street lights and obviously others I'm not remembering and these are many other issues that staff must Place priority that are not even in these goals and they aren't part of our goals but they are part of what the town has to do and they include things like surveys of homes regarding sewer and water lines which we heard about at a council meeting very recently so my point is that as we review the goals for the coming year I think we need to be realistic inclusive and at the same time um understand the demands that each of these goals place on our staff are there sub goals we would like to spend some time in future meetings discussing for the purpose of seeking greater clarification and some indication of how we might measure those sub goals one of them that people have mentioned on a regular basis is the whole area of housing so uh the floor is open for discussion we can actually go through these sheets if you really really want to but I think it's much more important for us to identify areas that we feel need further discussion Mand I mean sorry councelor Hani counselor Han um this the set of manager goals in my mind is a mishmash of things the council can do and things the council can't do and a lot of what you just mentioned Lynn is things the council has to do that the manager can't really because it's completely within the purview of the council speed limits in some sense is within our purview as Keeper of the public way right um Street lighting is within our purview as Keeper of the public way it's not a manager goal um we've directed the manager to do something and so when I look at these goals and what's ranked highest I look at what should the council discuss that should be a council priority um and in particular since I serve on CRC I look at all the things that were ranked that relate to something CRC could be working on some of which has been referred to CRC solar bylaw in particular it did not rank high on the counselor's lists though what ranked higher was housing and so I would love this Council to really have a discussion on I will give it sub go number three of goal four propose measures to retain promote and increase home ownership opportunities for low and moderate income residents including firsttime home buyers it is the highest ranked goal at least in sub goal within that goal if not one of the highest ranked within the entire set of manager goals but I have a feeling that there are 13 different opinions as to what those measures should be and so I believe we need to have a discussion to help the manager and his departments determine what the measure should be that should be proposed Thank you Pam uh and I was just going to say if someone wants to be called in a meeting by some name or title then it would be helpful to have your name changed on our screen so that we would know to call you by that thank you um I was going to comment just on the one that you mentioned which is the nuisance bylaw and that has a direct effect on uh some of the goals to promote and to enhance the quality of life in neighborhoods to have strong neighbors strong neighborhoods and so I see that as very much part and parcel of that particular goal it is not a non priority so you're specifically referring in this case to goal 4 point I I don't have the number um I'm I'm sorry I don't have that in front of me it's not up on the screen and I don't know the number off the top of my head well goal four is the housing goal and I'm trying to see what your I think what you're referring to is goal three number four review and Revis policies to support increased yearr round population in town okay yes thank you Jennifer um so also I a question and know responding to Pi up on what councelor hanii said about like CRC is now part of what we're very focused on is the solar bylaw even though that I'm not even sure that that's in the goals but that was a town manager goal from a couple of years ago when we established the solar bylaw working group so there's there's items that we have to be working on because we've been working on them and they are priority so I don't know how there we have to realize when we talk about these goals we still have other goals that we haven't checked off finished so both waste huler and solar bylaw were in the original goals and they're still here and they're ranked but they're not ranked high and yet TSO is spending enormous amounts of time on waste huler and um CRC is spending a lot of time on solar but how do we not and we have we appointed a solar bylaw working group we have to follow that through I mean we can't drop it and there and there it was a priority to have a solar bylaw so that's where I think it gets to Once something's in motion right we tend not to Target it as a priority because it's a given that it's in motion so I don't think it said it's not a priority right Pam did you have further I was going to say exactly the same thing that that once deemed in action or underway that then we get to focus on other pray priorities I just want to say one thing if I as I wasn't quite finished so particularly so with um a number of these goals where we're trying to prioritize the subg goals I was Finding you know for particularly maybe in racial equity and social justice it's hard to prioritize those sub goals they're all important so right they're just all part of the whole I think the challenge that is going to go back to go because they have to look at this and come forward with proposal for the coming year actually Anna and I talked about that just today having both looked at this councelor hanii so I want to disagree with both Jennifer and Pam a goal could be a priority of a council two councils ago that is no longer a priority of this Council because of membership turnover or because of changes at the state level and laws at the state level for example I'll say solar bylaw there is so much going on at the state on how to regulate solar installations that I'm not sure we should be spending time here on that until the state stuff settles out because we might just be spinning wheels on something that becomes immediately illegal after we've spent three four months on it because of what's going on at the state and so as I watch what's going on at the state I'm not sure right now is the time to be working on that or to be working in prioritizing solar when we might need to be prioritizing battery energy storage which might actually be a lot more important than solar bylaw right now um and so to generalize and say well counselors ranked it low because it's in process might be why you might have ranked it low but it's not why I ranked it low um other things might be ranked Low by everyone because of that but I'm not sure we can just generalize and say once something's in process we have to prioritize it because it was prioritized in Zim process we can stop that process if it's no longer a priority of the council anymore um and so maybe we have to have a discussion at the council level regarding some of these that are lower that the Committees are spending a lot of time on like solar and waste hauling to see whether given that they're low here whether the staff time that is being spent on that or the council time is being spent on it is actually where the council wants to spend its time versus something else that should be or that the council might want that committee to spend its time on I want to see CRC spend its time on housing not solar or one of the things you did suggest was redirecting toward the issue of battery storage yeah uh Kathy um I also think we need to distinguish with this the title of this is Town manager goals you know I think when we first come up with something we're asking him to organize staff to get to start something in motion so the example of waste hauler that has happened and now it's back in the council's lap so the town manager can't do anything till we do so things so to to me when I had to rank these it was like what exactly would I want the town manager to do so and then when I get so the one I work on now only once a month the elementary school building committee it's out forbid so it's not that it's not a high priority to bring that school home but other than the town manager making sure that we're not bulling off the clip on something we're supposed to do and since we have a lot of administrative help at that you know so it's like looking at a few of things things it's not a low priority it's just a low priority for Action by the town manager so I find this a very messy uh piece and then Jennifer you said you find them all important I find some of them if I read two different ones I can't tell the difference between them so I think we still have some duplicates so I'm only going to rank one one high if I think the other is similar you know if I can't figure out what the difference is other than wording so it's just a difference so like waste holders back in our laap but if we really don't think it's a priority we shouldn't be sending it back to staff either so that that is a valid question Andy yeah I I think that we also need to recognize that um we're making decision decisions at times to refer issues to committees or uh bylaws to committees or starting in on something and we're not recognizing either the amount of time that is required to be invested in it or the length of time that it will take to complete it and uh so uh one of the things that I think we as an entire Council need to be thinking about is once we start something whether it be waste hall or solar whatnot are we wanting to make a commitment to it and are in recognizing that it is a multi-year commitment that is being talked about and that it's not something that should come up for annual review Once that decision is made but the decision should not be made lightly at the time that it is originally referred because um we need to know that it's going to take a long time and a lot of time thank you pouncer Walker um thank you Lynn with respect to Mandy Joe's comment I think overall uh my experience is that it's kind of hard to distinguish or to come up to come up with conclusions about uh you know what priorities we have as a council as a whole mostly because we don't know the reasoning behind the ratings and I think that that's really important so just how Mandy Joe stated like her reason behind rating things a certain way was different than H why I rated them or other counselors um also um I know for myself because of the way goals split up with progression over time I think I also had some difficulty rating them and understanding how other counselors might be using the rating system for example we had certain goals that were then broken out into two goals and I wasn't sure if like I'm rating these now as two separate goals or these are you know I don't know I just think overall it was hard to come to or to make General conclusions about how we feel as a council as a whole I do agree that we should have um set aside time for conversations and hopefully decision-making regarding our housing crisis um because not only is that a an issue that I think we all agree is facing man many Amis residents but it's a it's a Statewide Nationwide issue at this point and so we should be engaging in conversations around that topic at the council level but I think that there are other initiatives that I also would like to engage in but it's it's hard to say if I think overall as a council that those are our PR priorities um so I'm not sure I know we've we've been moving along with this but I'm not sure if we can sort of redo the rating scale to get a better idea or have a different way just an active conversation of figuring out how to prioritize because the way that we're doing it right now makes it really hard for me to determine that outside of my own personal opinions okay George so I'll take a specific example um which may not be helpful but it's one that's on my mind a lot and is not as far as I can see in the goals and uh but I think it's I'm I'm suspecting that it's something that others of you are thinking about related to um Quality of Life neighborhoods and um home ownership and that's the challenge of rental conversions the challenge of properties being bought and becoming rental properties it's a complicated issue um I don't have any clear answers um I'm open to further discussion and reflection but maybe I'm the only one or the only one or two that thinks this is something we need to to to help need help on um we would need the help of the planning department we would need to have a conversation about this issue um but and I hear it from some of my constituents um and I sometimes hear it from some of my colleagues in conversation but that's an example of what I consider to be a quality of life issue neighborhood issue and ownership home ownership issue that we just don't talk about um and I don't have any answers but I think it's an issue or problem that we need to address so how does that fit into this um you know maybe I'm in I mean so that's that's a concrete example okay so this is my takeaway from here and that is that as we look at the agendas for August September and even into October um what one of the discussions probably contained to like an hour would be around housing and quality of life if you will and year round residence kind of all fits into one another might be around whether or not solar should be really focusing on battery storage versus solar because so much of what solar is going on at the state as many as councelor hanii mentioned um and then the issue that I think many of you have raised is what is the what is the commitment of the present Council to earlier decisions that take multiple years to do and solar is certainly in that ex that group as well as um issues like um waste hauler uh and frankly neighborhoods quality of life Etc I don't know that we um in fact the plan was not to spend any more time on this than to just look at it for the moment there's no perfect rating system I don't like this one but I can't come up with a better one I'm open to any suggestions and all uh but I think with that it would be best for us to move on okay um we're going to move on to um Town Council appointments okay and the planning board appointments I'm going to call on Pam Rooney to briefly discuss any feedback from the um CRC from CRC thank you thank you um there is an extensive report in your packet and the summary of that is that we had three candidates for two positions one of the positions was um the the end of a term for a person who wanted to be reappointed and uh the the the vote ended up um supporting that person um and then the second the second opening was a uh close vote a split vote um between the five members of the of the committee uh that said the recommendation though is to move ahead with the appointment of Doug Marshall as the returning the returning candidate uh to the planning board for a term starting right now uh through the end of June 17 2027 and secondly to appoint Melissa Ferris to the planning board um for the same term beginning immediately ending the end of June 2027 and um we followed proced ures according to the Charter and to the policies and um followed step by step through the process as you are now all familiar with with the multiple appointments and vacancies that we've been dealing with lately thank you okay so let me Begin by uh placing the first of the two motions on the table and seeking a second to appoint Doug Marshall to the planning board for a term beginning immediately and ending June 30th 2027 is there a second second seconds okay are there any questions or comments seeing none we're going to move to a vote councelor Ryan I Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg hi Jennifer toab yes councelor Walker yes Patti Angeles hi Council re I grimer is and I councelor hanii I Bob hegner I councelor Lord I Pam roone yes it's unanimous with one absent the second motion is to appoint Melissa Ferris to the planning board for a term beginning immediately and ending June 30th 2027 is there a second change seconds okay thank you are there questions or comments coun uh George Ryan Council Ryan I would like to make a motion I move to amend the existing motion and replace the name Melissa Ferris with the name Lawrence clutz second thank you um okay so the motion is a motion to amend and so we need to deal with the amendment first and then the actual motion correct thank you so the motion is to amend and the amendment would be not the actual appointment but the amendment um George would you please speak to your motion thank you we are always grateful when residents step forward and offer themselves as candidates for Town boards and committees and this case is no exception and we're all aware of the challenge at times at finding candidates for these vacancies in this case the planning board has two vacancies and there are three candidates after the advertising is required on the town website in extensive Outreach the pool of three was declared sufficient by CRC all three submitted s sois all three went through the interview process my assumption is that my colleagues as I have have read the S sois and have taken the time to view the interviews the vote on CRC as was mentioned by the chair was divided three in favor of one candidate and two favoring a second but it's ultimately our responsibility to decide based on the existing record which candidate we think would be the strongest and in this case I think there's a stronger case to be made for Mr Klutz over Miss Ferris in the fall as part of the Strategic partnership agreement signed between the town and UMass a series of conversations will begin around three areas of common concern and interest housing infrastructure and economic development this is an extremely important conversation and one I think long overdue I think it important that we see these conversations and this relationship not as an adversarial one or one that is a zero sum game but as one grounded in mutual respect and a shared concern for the long-term viability and health of our town and the university we are in this together we need to stop seeing the university as quote the problem unquote stop using it as a convenient punching bag for problems and challenges that have a long and complex history and do not fit in Easy US versus them narrative I think Mr Klutz given his lived experience in a college town and his appreciation of the vital importance of a positive and healthy Town gone relationship would strongly resist that narrative and be a more positive and productive voice on the planning board given the nature of the process that we as a council have created where all questions are submitted in advance and there is no opportunity to seek clarification or probe more deeply into thei I understand quite well the challenge you all face in making an informed decision one is often left to reading between the lines and drawing inferences based on certain words or phrases I have to say that personally it sometimes reminds me of recent Supreme Court nominations where everybody's on their best behavior and they're careful not to say anything remotely controversial or substantive you'll probably not be surprised to learn and if you listen to the interviews you did learn that during the the interviews all the candidates were in support of affordable housing what that phrase actually meant to them was left unaddressed and unexamined all not surprisingly thought that public comment and input was important but only one candidate the currently serving the one currently serving on the body pointed out that in the vast majority of cases public comment and input comes from a very few number of voices the same voices who often say the same things over and over and over again in point of fact the planning board rarely if ever hear from a diverse and more representative set of voices probably in many cases because they can't afford to buy or rent here and are invisible and voiceless and then there's the phrase family housing which was repeated repeated was which came up repeatedly particularly from Miss feris she's in favor of more family housing well who's opposed to family housing but again what actually means and how one might actually begin to go about realizing that was left unexamined and unquestioned there is fortunately or unfortunately for Miss Ferris a public record that does exist that you should be aware of a written comment to the council in February 2023 in which she expressed concern that Mr Marshall serves on the planning board and is currently its chair and because he's employed by UMass as a planner she asked rhetorically in her comment to the council quote how can Mr Marshall serve two often conflicting interests at the same time unquote she went on to write as a resident of ammer Mr Marshall is certainly welcome to serve on any number of other boards and committees but as a matter of town policy planners while in the active employee of UMass should not be allowed to serve on our planning board particularly as its chair not only should he recuse himself from the board but measures should be put in place that prevent people with such obvious conflicts of interest from serving on the planning or zoning board this should be self-evident end quote no it is in fact not self-evident in fact I could not find a statement with which I disagree more councelor to is correct to remind us that our peculiar demographic where roughly 60% of our population is student age creates a very unique challenge to this town particularly in the area of housing I don't know what the answers are but I do know that making the university into the villain is not the right approach portraying this relationship is one defined by an essential conflict of interest and as a zero sum game is in my view both factually wrong and also destructive of the very relationship we're trying to nurture with the university we need to work together to address the challenges we face it is certainly not that we are always in agreement or that there are not areas of tension but it's precisely in those areas and on those topics that we need to approach each other with respect and a sense that we will not resolve these issues particularly in housing with this sort of attitude or rhetoric I think Mr clut both in his s SOI and in his responses to the interview questions understands this and would be a more positive and productive voice on the planning board so I hope he will support his candidacy and my amended motion Kathy I disagree with George um I watch the video of the interviews for both and read theis and that is what we're supposed to be basing um our information on and I think uh the committee did a very good job that Ferris is a very interesting candidate she has been attending planning board meetings and watching she knows how to read architectural drawings she is um has done layout she has a a a history of working with groups in a leadership position um not always um in agreement and she uh interestingly although she didn't uh uh emphasize it brings some diversity to the committee and we supposedly have been looking for that I think it's would be unfortunate to search the press for comments that people have made um especially when issues are uh close to people's heart uh I looked at uh the other candidate and I think he's clearly I you know I would like him to serve on committees he did not express as much of having been a regular listener to the planning board there's a lot of learning um on this so I think it she is a very strong candidate so I don't support the amendment I'm also curious Lynn on what the rules are because I'm of been cut off if I speak too long and can't read a long statement so um I won't speak any longer than this but I I think the committee did deliberative and full action and so I will not support the amendment thank you councelor hanii I do support the amendment um one of the reasons I supported Mr Kutz over Miss Ferris at CRC is because of their approach to incorporating public comment Miss Ferris indicated that she would absolutely incorporate public comment into any decision made and that those most directly affected should be heard and strongly considered almost to the exclusion of the rest of the town she didn't add the almost to the exclusion of the rest of the town she had the rest but the implication was that if you're in a butter your opinion matters more than anyone else in town that was her implication Mr Kutz in the meantime said that public opinion on alone cannot dictate board's work these are these are from my notes important it's an important contributing factor but ultimately decisions need to be based on sound policy and long-term considerations he had in my mind the appropriate recognition that public comment is not the be all end all of a decision you need to make on the planning board particularly because the public is not fully represented at planning board meetings the other part from Mr klutz's comments and answers to questions that I thought was extremely important was his knowledge of the master plan his knowledge and how he spoke to waivers and um waivers and exceptions and how he said things like you need to look at whether that w is necessary to do something that would be in support of a master plan and he also looked at the longterm view if we're constantly seeing requests for waivers or exceptions or special permits on the same matter of the zoning bylaw that maybe we need to change the zoning bylaw because as Doug marshel said the zoning bylaw tends to lag behind the master plan and is set in stone and doesn't get changed very often and when you're looking at waivers and exceptions and application to zoning bylaw things change over the course of time and if you're constantly seeing a need to and granting that exception not just seeing the requests but if the planning board or the zba is constantly granting a specific exception whether it be to parking or whether it be to Building height or whether it be to Something in some area um lock coverage maybe it's a problem with the zoning by law because times have changed and Mr klutz's recognition and acknowledgment and knowledge of that duty of the planning board to me was extremely important in my reasoning for why to why I believed he was the better appointment to the planning board he seemed to have a more comprehensive knowledge of what the planning board does and how it actually operates from a regulatory point of view than Miss Ferris Andy yeah this is a particularly difficult appointments uh and it when we look at it and we recognize that it was a 3-2 vote we have to recognize that the council that it was not a resounding recommendation of a committee it was a split decision of a committee and that we as a counil have to all take responsibility for the kind of analysis that is being presented tonight and I appreciate that we are having that opportunity I want to throw in just one minor thing and then just go on to U major point and the minor thing is that when the U uh s sois were placed in the packet for tonight's meeting I noticed that Mr clut was not included and I had to go back to the planning board excuse me to the CRC um packet in order to get that so SOI back out and that given the circumstances I think that was an awkwardness that just should be noted um but but I think that there were two things that in the end when I did go back and spend the time listening to the discussion that happened at the meeting and as much of the interview as I had time to do and uh it boiled down to a couple of things that one is that uh What uh the uh what George Ryan had uh indicated had read to us I F I remembered exactly when we received that public comment I did not attach it to Mr Ferris but I do recall it and I do recall that I was really questioning uh the Judgment that was behind it for the very reasons that were being explained um it it would seemed to me in addition that when I found out and realized that it was the person who would be expected to be placed on the planning board along with Mr Marshall that that end of itself raised an additional question but the major reason that I came down to it is when you get down to the S SOI that Mr Kutz had put in the paragraph that said to me the most was this one having familiarized myself with the goals outlined the ammer uh comprehensive plan I'm particularly drawn to initiatives aimed at promoting economic Vitality environmental stewardship Transportation infrastructure and Community engagement these goals are vital to building a diverse and inclusive community and preserving the town's natural resources priorities that resonate deeply with me and mirror my own values that was quite a statement and against one that came from M FIS which was concerned about family housing that was the the driving force uh if we don't think about things like economic Vitality uh we are not going to end up with a town where we can afford to do all of the other things in including uh preserving our neighborhoods and um providing the education that will draw people to pay the kind of money that they have to pay so for all of those reasons I think that the clarity of his statement about what the value is that needs to be considered by the planning board seem to me to be the much better State thank you Jennifer uh yes I I don't know where to start first um one of the first things I would say uh because I think something well was said about I don't want to take I they were all um the two new candidates Melissa feris and um Mr Kutz were both excellent candidates so I voted for and I'm supporting Miss Ferris but that's not because I don't think Mr Kutz it it reflects um you know no disregard for Mr Klutz or the responses that he provided but just so the council knows um Melissa Ferris grew up um in uh Northampton she her father was spent his faculty at UMass she's currently an enrolled full-time student at UMass so she knows the ve area very well and she's very familiar and supportive of the university and you know I think considers it an extension of her home she's also um there is a woman who is member of the planning board who is transitioning off so she would be you know just in terms of that diversity she's a woman and of Middle Eastern descent so I uh also her um include that in her background I um I picked my battles so I did vote um for Mr Marshall um I uh what excuse me no I abstained during in the committee but I voted for him tonight I did vote for him tonight I have a great deal of respect for Mr Marshall um and his commitment to the town but I don't think the concern that someone who is and it has nothing to do with anybody personally but I think having the concern that a senior planner for the University it's maybe should not serve as a planning board chair is M uh councelor Ryan I just popped out I think that is that is a concern that she has every right to express as other we received other letters from member of the of the public on that and I once wrote um an offed in response to a statement that um was made at the February 15 2023 planning board meeting by the um planning board chair when he said we have a shortage of housing for students and a shortage of housing for Middle income and worker housing we can't solve the second the shortage of middle income and worker housing without dealing with the first one I feel like we're behind on providing housing for students in this town that it and so it could actually be a while before we see Improvement in the worker housing and the middle income housing availability just because there are so many students that have housing demands that are unmet and that's we can agree or you know we we could have a real conversation about that I don't personally think it's the responsibility of the town to provide all the unmet student housing needs that a good part of that responsibility lies with the university and perhaps you know and that's where wearing two hats might give the perception of a conflict of interest so I don't think that um Miss Ferris or anybody else that wrote to the council should be demon demonized for expressing that concern so um and I think to characterize Miss Ferris as being I mean there was there was nothing that was said during the interview that um that would suggests that she has a particular agenda and I am concerned that you know she nobody's here to defend themselves and they're being um mischaracterized and again I think that they were I have no um I'm not disparaging in any way I thought that both candidates um were dedicated to the town were very thoughtful provided very wellth thought you know articulate responses to the questions but I don't think that we should um kind of demonize um and mischaracterize someone who's not here to frankly you know kind of defend herself and I do so I voted for Miss Ferris because I think that we could only pick two of three good candidates and that I thought she also brought some uh diversity to the planning board and has a real understanding of the town of Amis because she she grew up here Pat I'm sorry and is a current student at UMass thank you Pat I I voted uh for Lawrence clutz you need to speak to your pH there you go speak to your mic okay thank you thank you I supported Mr Kutz as the candidate um I had very uh reasons that have been stated by other people uh by Andy by Mandy by George um but what he was of the three candidates he was the only one who really talked about inclusivity um uh diversity uh he really uh was looking to create a community where all voices could be heard and have effect on policy he has strong experience in strategic planning um and he he stated in his SEI a holistic approach that takes into account the diverse needs and perspectives of all members of the community and that Miss Ferris did not do she did talk about oh I think maybe we should uh we could lower some of the zoning requirements uh for some housing and meaning probably afford housing um I don't have the direct quote here um and I'm not trying to demonize her I have a lot in common with her we both went to college in our 40s um but she also got involved with the planning board meetings and wanting to attend planning board because she was opposed to a duplex development that was going to be built near her neighborhood um and she talks about in her SOI she talks about um she learned about the housing crisis and and uh she can see that they're developers with vested interests um in helping create more housing and Amor and while the stated intent of many involved is to attract families back to town much of the new housing stock is clearly being aimed only at students I'm concerned about the Democratic Cliff that experts predict will lower enrollment um let me see the housing is not being in a way that appeals to families a Butters have a stronger voice according to miss feris then the master plan then policy then uh income level um and that really concerns me because if it were up to and I will take example of 132 Northampton Road a project that has branded me in my understanding or scarred me in my understanding of how ammer works if we had listened to the abutters instead of looking at the need for affordable housing instead of looking at um the ability to support people who were at the economic bottom support people coming out of homelessness support young people who are working two or three jobs and are couch surfing we would not have e cables which has Blends into the neighborhood contrary to what the abutters were saying and really addresses housing for a mixed group of people with 70% of that housing being being earmarked in the initial round for ammer residents if we had listened and so one of the strongest things Mr Klutz did was to take a risk not cover up his words or his ideas but he took a risk yes we have to listen we have to listen to more than one part of the community but the diverse community and yet the board must make a decision that is the best decision for the Town East Gables was the best decision for ammer thank God it was taken and I really feel strongly I liked Miss Ferris but I feel really strongly that it is important to have people on the count uh planning board who aren't there for only one reason which is to protect themselves we are bigger than that in so many ways George I resisted the urge to make a point of order um and I hope I was right but I really ask my colleagues to be careful in their choice of words I am not demonizing anyone and I'm not disparaging Miss FIS I disagree very strongly with some things that she has written and I'm responding to things that she said in a public meeting but I'm not demonizing her and I object in the strongest possible way to that language I'm not disparaging her personally um that's not my point and I think I've made that pretty clear what I'm concerned about is an attitude what I'm concerned about is a perspective and as I said in my remarks at the beginning we are entering into an important series of conversations um we have a Chancellor who's interested in a positive Town relationship and I'm looking for people to sit on the planning board who are at least open to that conversation and do not characterize the university in the way that she has characterized it in some of her statements and comments and I will end with a brief comment that she does make in writing in the SOI she describes our town as quote a town that is filled with no frills housing that Rings campuses that's not a description of amoris that I recognize Jennifer um I I probably overstated using the word demonizing but I feel I do stick with I I think that miss feris is being disparaged and there's in uendo we have we don't know what her position is on 132 Northampton Road I mean to imply that she would have opposed it we have why would we why would we assume that um I do have to say so miss Ferris does live in a a neighborhood that zone General residents that's the only zoning in amrest which has it's she chose to live in a neighborhood that has all kinds of housing single family housing duplexes triplexes town houses and apartments it's the part of town that zoned for the smallest Lots so she lives in maybe the most diverse housing which in a neighborhood where infill is already being practiced I happen to know that she lives adjacent to a Triplex it's a three unit 10 students order her proper as far as I know she has no issue with that there was a proposal which you you referenced The Proposal that she objected to and that was to build a in the backyard where that Triplex that's rented to 10 students it's I mean the owner is very clear it's not to provide Workforce or family or or multif family housing for anyone it is rented by the bedrooms for students The Proposal was to build four additional units behind that with 16 bedrooms four students the developer said so there would be 26 students living on a small lot um in a surrounded by residential houses that were you know narrow all cheek and jow together so she was one of the the neighbors that may have um expressed a concern about that of having that would have been 34 no it would have been 26 students at probably $1,200 a bedroom because it's very close to the campus and that's a perfectly you know that's why we have a planning board so that residents can um Express comments to the planning board and I don't think they should be um it should be held against them that they took advantage of the opportunity and the right they have a residence of Amherst to offer public comment to one of our uh permanent ranting authorities and I think we would all do that if 30 students we're going to be living on the other side of our small lot on the other side of our backyard fence uh on a in a proposal with 22 parking spaces again I think that there's i i i concerned that we are putting words into candidates mouss when we don't know what position they would take on um on projects that never that we've never asked them about and that have never come before them for deliberation motion that's on the table is to move to amend the existing motion by replacing the name Melissa Ferris with the name Lawrence Kutz the motion's been made and seconded seeing no other hands we're going to move to a vote Kathy Shane no Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer to no counselor Walker no Pat deangeles I councelor abin ly grimer is an exstension councelor hanii i Bob hegner abstain counselor Lord nay Cameron no point of order yes I did not understand councelor Lord's vote it was unclear to me whether it was yay or nay counc Lord sorry thank you it was a nay as in no okay Pam Rooney no councelor Ryan I so it's four in favor five Nays and three abstains uh the motion fails not saying how Miss Ferris would vote on 132 Northampton Road I said if her belief okay that Butters carry more weight than others then we would not have 132 Northampton road so I don't like that you say something that I said and Twisted by accident I think thank you we're we're done with it just pointed in this St thank you um I'm more than glad to explained my decision to abstain we're back to the original vote to appoint Melissa Ferris to the planning board for a term beginning immediately and ending June 30th 2027 we begin with C Andy Steinberg yes oh I'm sorry that motion was seconded yes uh yes I seconded it yeah councelor ET you have your hand up before we move to votes are we not having a discussion on sure okay I'm sorry the yes the floor is open for discussion are there any comments on the motion that's now on the floor which is the original motion councelor e um I'd like to explain my abstention I I think deference should be given to committees that nominate candidates to the council I do recognize that it was a 32 vote and it was split but even that split still at some level should have some kind of difference in my original remark at that meeting I did mention that I couldn't really distinguish between FIS and clots and in fact one of the reasons that I gave although that isn't primarily the reason why I went one way or the other was that clz had mentioned that he was open to being in some other committees in town now that's partially my fault because not all committees are created equal in town but again I'm returning to the fact that when you have a committee who has handled an interview and listened to the candidates a little difference not um maybe a blank check should be given to them now if the vote were going to be held today my vote might be different but given my inclination I think it is appropriate in the case of the amendment to abstain George I cannot overemphasize how important this body is it's one of the reasons that it is our decision to make so I'm deeply disappointed in the decision by three of my col to abstain they should either stand up or sit down this is an extremely important body we have a vital relationship with the university and I while I'm repeating myself I'll stop but um I don't there's a reason why we are called to make this judgment deference to a committee If This Were 4 to1 or 5 Z that would carry some weight with me but this was a deeply divided vote and uh it's still not clear to be what the reasoning is for why the third vote was the third vote so I'm going to vote no and I am done Jennifer um Council Ryan again mentioned how important our relationship with the university is which it is but there was nothing that Miss Ferris said that would in any way suggest she does not want to work in partnership with the university she did mentioned that her father spent his career at UMass and that she is a student at UMass and chose to live two blocks from the campus she is very connected to the university she is not there was nothing she said that would in any way indicate an adversarial relationship and nothing but a very positive relationship with the university councelor hanii councelor Jennifer Tob def defly ignores the public comment Miss Ferris wrote to us that councelor Ryan talked about a year ago I'm going to vote no I want to address the difference regarding committees and I agree deference should be given to committees on a lot of things including potentially this one except when those committees are deeply divided as councelor Ryan said 50 4041 but a 3-2 vote could go any way depending on which five counselors are on that committee and I think we need to recognize that it's why our committees do not make the appointments or pass the bylaws it's why the whole Council makes the appointments and passes the bylaws so in my five and a half years on a council when I've had questions about a bylaw or an appointment or an approval of appointment by a town manager where maybe I my initial decision or my initial thought was to say no and the committee comes in with 5 yes I definitely give it difference because they spent the time but if that committee comes in 32 I'm looking at that saying well that was deeply divided and maybe my initial thoughts haven't been resolved at the committee level and so I respect the the difference but at the same time we were all voted in to vote our own best judgment in light of what a recommendation might be not in full deference to that recommendation councilor a I believe Andy hasn't spoken yet true Andy yeah I um on the question of committees it's not just about appointments about all committees I mean we we do spend a lot of time in Committees of uh making recommendations but in the end it is the council that owns the final decision and I think we as counselors have to respect our colleagues who spent the time on issues and developed it developed our set of recommendations but in the end it doesn't substitute for our responsibility to Think Through each one and that's why I spent you know several hours this afternoon listening to as much of the uh inter CRC interview meeting as I could and U tried to and went back and uh made sure that I read all three of the sis including the one that was not in the packet for today's meeting and U tried to exercise um independent judgment including um as part of that investigation of course reading the CRC report and having listened to the CRC discussion so I it is um what it is but I think that not just on appointments but on all things I hope that each of us takes the responsibility to really consider very carefully um what it is that we were voting on because we are voting as a council and we have responsibilities as counselors for each vote we take with that I might say that I'm gonna I I originally had given one vote I am not going to stick with that vote that I had started to make previously I I'm sorry Andy we could not hear you in that La before we got into discussion I had indicated I was asked to make um a vote and I want to have an opportunity to revote that I don't want that vote to be recorded as I got it thank you councelor et I don't think that a committee vote should Pro former pass through the council I don't believe that that's the point that I made but simply that there's more work done on the council level at least that should be recognized in some way um I would also like to speak maybe this is tangential to the discussion but I think relates this may be a reason why we should have more candidates four positions so we don't run into this kind of situation when you have two and you bring three then you will end up in these kind of votes if you have five what may end up happening is that the votes get dispersed and then there is some kind of of convergence and you may not reach this position even if let's take a step back this is more or less what we are thinking about in Massachusetts when we speak of some kind of ranked voting so um I would like to lay the blame on the fact that we didn't allow as many candidates as possible and I would also use the opportunity to speak to members of the town to throw their hearts in the ring so that this doesn't occur in addition to that however this particular vote runs the risk of chilling people from going for positions because then the possibility is that you may have said something that would put you in one camp or the other or more unluckily you may have said nothing at all in which case no one wants you so um I rest my kiss Thank you my vote tonight was not inconsistent with my past vote on planning board members when there became a controversy and it sounded as if we were actually trying to conduct an interview without the candidate being in the room and so inferences get made I don't think that's appropriate and in the process it leaves me with a feeling that we have just held a discussion we have held an interview but the candidate was not in the room I personally object to that and um I I certainly would have my preference but that's my objection Jennifer yeah you probably heard from me enough tonight but I I very much agree with uh councelor e that if we had had we we really need more candidates so I I don't and that may be a conversation we want to have I really reached out to people in different districts and this is a tough committee it's time consuming and so it I nobody that um I did not reach out to anybody who submitted an application because I was really looking at uh at districts that I don't live in um so it's a challenge and we should maybe address why it it seems to be so challenging but I would also say that CR C which I think is is it's a very good thing that we have very we really represent diverse perspectives and opinions on the council so that's one reason you don't always see a five to zero the positive side is we really we really discuss things and that's you know it's good to have for everybody in town can feel well a lot of people in town can feel like their points of view are represented on CRC councelor Ryan the reason that you have to draw inferences and and read between the lines is because of the process that we've created in which one can't ask questions it's all a dog and pony show they have the questions in advance and they know what they are and you can't ask a followup you can ask can't ask for for clarification so what am I supposed to do it seems I'm left with Simply Having to approve whatever the 3-2 vote happens to be and that is utterly absurd I have a responsibility to my constituents and to the town to make the best judgment I can can based on the information available and since we've chosen a process that doesn't allow us to ask people questions and to get clarification I have nothing else to do but look at whatever written record exists and to examine the SOI as carefully as I can and to listen to the interviews I did all three of those things and I still stand by my decision the superior candidat is Mr Kutz councelor hanii with all due respect to the president that exstension and the reason for it implies that all discussion about candidates at the council level is inappropriate because we never have the counselors the candidates here and so I would request from the president if the president believes that we should not be having discussion because it's inappropriate to do so outside of having the candidates here that the president present to the council a new a new policy that does not put the president in the position of essentially needing to abstain because they feel the discussion is out of order accept that criticism um George do you still have a comment okay all right the motion is on the floor to appoint Melissa Ferris to the planning board for a term beginning immediately and ending June 30th 2027 we begin with Andy Steinberg no Jennifer Tod yes yes councelor Walker yes Patti Angeles no councelor ET abin Lyn grimer is a no councelor hanii no Bob hegner no councelor Lord yes Pam Rooney yes councilor Ryan no Kathy Shane yes the vote is five in favor seven opposed one abent one absent six opposed one exstension and one absent the motion fails uh we uh committee and liais on reports um CRC yes does this mean that the CRC must open up the floor for a new a new planning board interview to fill the remaining vacancy is that how I understand this vote that would be my interpretation but I'm certainly willing to listen to other people's thoughts councelor walk what a what a waste of time councelor Walker um I was going to ask a very similar question um to to Pam roone but just with the followup that if we have to reopen and start the process over are we still allowing the two candidates at question to re submit to the process or does this mean like we are not they are absolutely we would never borrow anybody from applying okay thank you councelor hanii at the risk of being called out of order I'm going to make a motion to to appoint Lawrence Kutz to the planning board for a term beginning immediately and ending June 30 2027 motion's been made is there a second second second d'angeles I want to postpone that I think it's outrageous we took a vote uh to come back and swing around um just I want to wait till a month from now so I'm going to use my right to postpone motion uh Council has used their right to postpone that postpones this to our meeting on the 19th of August point of order yes so does this mean that the planning board sits with a vacancy for another month until until we even come around to a clear decision on this so that the CRC has a clear path to move forward I believe that if the motion is tabled until the next meeting it means there is that seat goes unfield councelor hanii you have your hand up she took it down Jennifer so that means the motion could be voted on without so councilors could vote to appoint someone just I don't know based on they won't have the opport so that it it's not that it goes back to CRC to decide what to do the motion could just come up and it could so somebody be there's two ways somebody from the prevailing side could have brought it up and and in this case the prevailing side was the nose and the um no the prevailing it's not a motion to reconsider this is not a motion to reconsider sorry you're correct it was not a motion to reconsider it was a motion to just put it on the table thank you uh I believe that it's it's been placed on the table and then it was objected to and postponed and so the seat remains open until this 19th of August that would be my interpretation do you have any other ideas either Paul or Athena NOP Mandy's councelor hani's motion will be on the floor at the August 19th meeting right Andy I just actually a questioned for U Athena was there a second on the motion and who was it yes yes there was it was dangeles Council for my understanding it isn't that the vacancy will be filled on the 19th the 19th is when we'll have the votes with the possibility that that vote might not pass and so it could extend even longer than than that that is true and so if that's the case given the possibility that we aren't baring anyone from going through the process again would it be possible for the motion to be withdrawn so that we can have this process start that would be up to the counselor that made the motion and I'm not seeing her raise her hand point point of order yes my understanding is if someone defers this or or postpones a vote that we can't even discuss it that's correct we can't discuss the candidate if you will we can certainly clar ask questions to clarify what happens next and that's what I see this as okay Jennifer yeah I not sure if this is part of what um councilor ET was um addressing but it's not like anyone else can apply in the interim no that's correct okay a point of clarification um councelor tab asked if anyone can can apply in the interim those you you people can apply any time but they can apply anytime but if they don't apply when there's a vacancy posted then it's not taken so the chair would check if any of the applicants to be not not to be considered on the 19th Pam I have a question for Athena so when the bulletin board notice was posted we did not end it at June 30th we extended it and I don't know how long you extended it the pool is closed when the sis are posted okay so that that kind of ends that application process for the time being the anyone can apply at any time so we can continue to accept state um Community activity forms um but the CRC process is detailed in the Pol the council's policy on making recommendations to multiple member bodies states that um the applications have to come in after the vacancy notice is posted any before that are still valid but the chair has to confirm that those people are still interested once vacancy notice is posted okay are we ready to move on uh committee reports CRC Pam Rooney I think you just had our report thank you okay Elementary School building Kathy we we have a meeting this Friday but the main thing to report is the bids went out um and so now we're holding our breath you know so they're due back in late August there will be um Paul I'm forgetting the exact date but there was an opportunity to come and do interviews uh get more information and I'm not sure whether people took up on it okay finance committee uh nothing new go is Anna or councelor ET we have a meeting this Thursday yes um I can mention only because I talked to Athena I mean to Anna uh we will vote on the finance committee appointments on recommendation to the council uh we will um probably begin the discussion about the reparations uh followup committee those are the two items she needs to uh solidify that agenda by tomorrow morning if I'm correct um Jones Library Town manager oh actually you know what Jones library is Pam Jones Library building committee is building committee I'm sorry Pam not not trustees um the the building committee met on June 9ine to discuss with the architect the um proposed cuts to materials and and configuration of of uh interior construction there were two pieces of information that were very surprising that were new to the committee uh at least to some of the committee one was the information that the mass tax credit of approximately $1.8 million had been denied back in April and it was it was absolutely news to me I think that makes a huge difference in the amount of money that the that the friends and the um fundraisers now have to make up secondly that uh it came as a surprise and maybe I hadn't understood completely but the option there was no option being pursued by The Architects to to um not pull off and discard the historic woodwork but instead to cut around the woodwork and save it so several of us at least two of us had thought that there were going to be two options pursued relative to the uh the Integrity of the historic woodwork but there is in fact only one option being pursued and that is to pull off all historic Woodwork and replace it with some offthe shelf something um except for the main hallway that the main entrance and the five or six um fireplace mantel that are in the building the rest would be removed and disposed of um Town Services an Outreach Andy yes um I'm not going to say much because we've already had substantial discussion about the uh uh committee and what it's uh doing and appreciate the questions that are coming in from you we have two meetings scheduled as been previously noted in the announcements at the beginning of this meeting that are prior to the next council meeting in August and they are on July uh 25th and on August 15 so we will have two opportunities to uh work on um the questions that you have posted which are very good questions supplement the information that we have previously provided and U I think that's pretty much where we are okay liaison reports see none uh we've already approved the minutes Town manager's report Paul any highlights yeah thank you so first I want to mention that Melissa zawadski has begun her job as Finance director she started on July 1 and uh has jumped in with both feed has continues to work with our finance officers as well so really great to have her on board um also the superintendent of schools began her work she came on her second day she came to one of our department heads meetings and introduced herself which was really well-received she even came to a cup of Joe on last Friday which was one of the best attended uh events we've had with probably over 30 30 people there and she's just been um really communicative and uh really a quick learner in from my observations so far um also we had if you recall we had a 911 outage which came at a pretty challenging time because um you know this is a Statewide outage we had nothing to do with it but we had to respond to it and so we had a new Communications uh our our communication Center Director had uh retired so we had someone uh in the acting role Jason Rush Rushford and he did a spectacular job um and we also had an acting Fire Chief lindsy stromgren and our new police chief and Gabe Ting and our new Communications manager Sam gford and um gfin and so but it we it was really a um we we did a after Action meeting on that and debriefed everything and just we we found some things that we could do better in terms of communication but overall I think our team with it as well responded really well to that um a shout out to our um recreation department and all the so many departments helped in the in the fireworks on July 2nd it was a gorgeous night I know some of you were there um it was um just a really terrific um well organized and credit to um Becky demling from the recreation department and and Ray harp for the work that they've done and also we all wanted to sort of publicly recognize the contribution that the University made there is a list of about 40 people who have contributed time to help to organize from the UMass Police Department to the the facilities Department to the electrician uh to custodians who were there until midnight making sure the bathrooms were clean the next day uh the university really devotes they don't just give us the space they dedicate a lot of staff to helping that be a success so I just wanted and I have thank public I have thank the the um Chancellor uh and all his staff so I wanted to do that publicly as well and also while we're in that this a sort of a thank you sort of thing I want to just also thank Doug Slaughter who was the interim uh school superintendent for over a year and that was not an easy task for him as something that he didn't have to say yes to but he really um stewarded the um the school department through some really challenging times and he was very glad to hand the Reigns over to the superintendent um but I just want to thank him publicly as well because um that was an important role for him to play during in crucial time during the town's governance so and I'm here for any questions or if you can talk to me afterwards questions or comments I'll make only one and that was there were 43 people in the room on Friday the cup of joe you lost count PA yes Jennifer um more of a refresher I think we were talking about the War Memorial Pool at the last council meeting and where did we leave that because I actually received some I received several emails from constituents who very just to you know had listened in on that discussion and wanted to pass the word along that they really value the pool yeah I I'm not sure what where the can where people felt like we were closing the pool that was not part of the conversation what we were talking about is the bath house needs it repair when we went out to get bids on it it came in too high so we recognized that that kind of expense on those on the bath house and the work that needed to be done was was over our budget and that we had to pull back and re relook at everything that we were doing so we did not have I mean the council if it chooses could have a conversation about the um future of two pools in the town but that's not the conversation we're having we're looking at trying to replace the bath house so that pool could still be actively used but the pool does it need repair then no no good Kathy Paul I I have questions that I don't know whether you can easily answer but um the news about the Jones library on the historic tax redit it's been definitively turned down for them um to the extent other major grants end up being at risk will will the town be on the hook for the whole $46 million minus the endowment or do we does that come back to us for decision is if I don't know quite how much I want to word that you know and that the other two just so people the other two that have a historic review or NE and HUD um so we don't we don't know what the outcome of that will be right now so it's a question of does it ever come back for us to take a look at it or not it would come back if the if additional money is needed from the town in terms of um an allocation from the town uh but only if it's higher not if if we're at risk for much more money than we thought before we sign any contracts we have to make sure our financing plan is is solid and you know that there is a privately there's a private component to that and I think that's something we would be looking at very carefully uh before moving forward on it but so Kathy I think what you're trying to clarify is even though we voted the amount for total borrowing if we are going to increase what the town is going to contribute to that that has to come back to the council and that's what I asking ly mainly because you know grants that in good faith they thought they were going to get um if those tends out to be at risk and we we we know the 1.5 wasn't in the equation when we were looking at it it was just a potential last November um but this news used the turndown of federal tax credits use the national uh Department of interior standards for historic preservation and renovation and neh and had both use those also so I don't know what where that will come out so that is my question Lyn cuz CU it starts to be more than the total endowment so even though the library has pledged the endowment so that was in fact the the guts of my question then I have one completely unrelated I know because I took the tour of the wastewater treatment plant which was astounding I just what the staff is doing there but I had a brief conversation with DPW on uh traffic and intersection at the Fort River school and they said we we did have a traffic study there were going to be some options and I just know when when are we going to see those because I think we'll be needing to apply for a grant so it's a question of timing um uh because I don't know what the content is of what they came up with with as possibilities so I mean with the um Town engineer and the DPW superintendent I think either this week or next week and we'll go through the timing of all the those things I'll let you know what those are yeah and I I I don't know whether that has to come back to us the way some of the others you know if there's a roundabout or a widening of a road or a yes it would come back to the C there is as as anyone images there's a sense of urgency if we could get it done before the school opens it would be nice or if the school opens but we know what's coming that would be great either way thanks Paul um actually Jennifer and I we no it was pamar and I were together for our tour of the Wastewater Plant and I would like that at sometime in the future um with the knowledge that other municipalities have approached us to link into our wastewater treatment that we you know at least have a discussion about how that might happen and what the cost if you will of joining into an already existing facility means for somebody coming in after the fact especially since what we saw was a facility that needs to have a long range plan for repair okay okay are there any other questions of the Town manager okay then um 10 c i I've submitted a written report are there any questions yes councelor hanii um I have two main questions and there's a potential for a bunch of sub questions on under them so I'll ask um the first one and then I'll go on to the second one after hopefully you can answer the first one you mentioned um having meetings with both the finance committee chair and a member of the finance committee with pelum shb and Leverett select board and finance chairs but you didn't actually talk about a or summarize what the content of those meetings were so I am asking for a summary of the content of all three meetings so basically the U re the per purpose of reaching out was because we did send them the letter that um the council approved okay and in the process of sending that letter offered to have a meeting with them to talk about you know kind of our message if you will and to get a sense although because we weren't meeting with full committees that nobody can make a commitment or a statement what is very clear based on the last meeting that um we had just today and that is that there is a strong desire to have a four towns meeting as early as sometime in August and start proceeding with a discussion that brings in the financial uh perspective of each of the four towns so we Ed the basis of our letter as a way to reach out and I have to say the other towns were really appreciative of that they felt like it was an important uh thing that we reach out and there was a lot of clarification needed Andy or Bob you may have additional things you'd like to add so and but Mandy Joe you said you had an additional question I did um your report also indicated that on July 5th you met with Dr Herman this was different from the cup of joe meeting and so I have a lot of questions about that meeting um who was invited to it why were you there um who else was there um what did you discuss um and here's the big one do other counselors ever get a chance to meet privately with the superintendent in the same manner that you did I was invited never I mean I don't know who else was invited and in fact what I do know is that Paul's met with her a couple times I'm sure if the council would like to have individual meetings she will do them as she can uh what was discussed was just generally how she's approaching this period of time uh she is working with desie because she has to submit a plan that is required by the schools by desie and she sees the plan as basically necessary and a first step towards getting to a financial uh sense of her of like we've been talking about um we talked about her approach to Staffing uh Central Administration uh she feels I think a little underst staffed at this point because there's nobody in charge of curriculum and instruction if you will teaching and learning I think is the word that she uses um and we talked about um her office being in the middle school and wondering whether or not that she met mentioned this at couple Joe as well whether or not with the move of the sixth grade to the middle school that space is going to be needed um it wasn't all I was there doing is conveying our financial understanding again she had received our letter as well um Paul you you meet with her regularly uh maybe you have a better sense of her availability yeah I mean she started on July 1 she um you know um I was surprised that she had reached out so as quickly as she did um but I think she had a list of people that she was trying you know connecting with she met with the police chief the fire chief um the um president of the council um me uh and I know there a number of other people that she's meeting with in the district that was probably her priority um so I think she's doing her due diligence and meeting with with as many people as can she did announce at uh the cup of joe that she was doing a lot of one-on ones and that she had the uh a lot of work and so she's going to suspend some of those one-on-one meetings um so she could get some of the work cleaned up um in the next couple months can I make a request sure the next time you get a one-on-one meeting with a department head or something like that out of the blue it would be very nice if counselors were aware of it beforehand just like you do with Joe and Mindy so that we can send questions in or comments in I was very surprised to see that you got one and you hadn't notified us beforehand to see what we might want you to discuss with her yes and I if there are other things that we would like to discuss with her we can either do that by inviting her to a meeting Andor uh sending them along okay any other questions comments future agenda items just very quickly next meeting if nuisance bylaw gets through go uh it still has another legal review it would come to the council the waste hauler will come to the council uh finance committee appointments uh Town manager appointments and the vote on the planning board those are the items I have P Pam Rooney uh a belated question for the town manager relative to the nuisance by law do you know what the schedule is for KP Law's review of that I don't I can find out for you though yeah okay all right um we are going to move are there any other counselor comments future agenda items okay then I just need to get my motion sheets so I make the motion properly um we are going to move into executive session just don't bu move yet okay you will receive a different link for the executive session and we will not return to a General Session afterwards okay so I'm going to make the motion that moves us and that is to convene in executive session in accordance with Mass General Law chapter 3A paragraph 21 in Prince A7 to comply with or act under the authority of any general or specific law or Federal grant and aid requirements to approve and release the following executive session minutes December 18 2023 correct only one set that's right December 11 was previously approved and released okay and in accordance with Mass General Law chapter 30A paragraph 21 A6 to consider the P purchase exchange lease or value of real property the chair here declares that an open meeting may have a detrimental impact effect on the negotiating position of the public body the council will not return to open session following this executive session is there a second second okay I think we are somewhere around Andy no I think we're Jennifer to this is a vote to move into we're voting to move into executive session thank you yes councelor Walker yes paty Angeles hi councelor at I Lynn G's I councelor hanii hi Bob hegner I councelor Lord hi Pam Rooney yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg yes it's animous we will actually go off of this link so we we'll no longer be visible to the public and we will you've been sent a link in your email and that's the link that you should immediately go to thank you