we're recording please proceed thank you good evening it's June 24 2024 this is a regular meeting of the Town Council with additional with an additional meeting included in it with the library trustees the open meeting law allows us to continue holding meetings remotely without a quorum of the council physically present at the meeting location however there is a quorum present in the town room tonight um as as long as we are able to provide alternative access and we are doing that by Zoom by phone and as live broadcast on amoris media channel 9 and live stream given that we have a quorum of the council presentent I'm calling the June 24 2024 regular Town council meeting to order at 601 and I will call on each of you um please unmute your mic say yes and then we'll go back Pat deangeles present Ana Devon gothier is not here at this time councelor ET not here yet Lynn grimer present councelor hanii present Bob hegner present councelor Lord presid Pam Ry oh she's not here yet okay uh councelor Ryan present Kathy Shane I'm here Andy Steinberg president Jennifer to here councelor Walker here thank you Alicia there is no chat room for this meeting if you have technical issues please let Athena and me know and if they become so difficult we will find a way to uh address that during the meeting the order is of the agenda is slightly changed in that a discussion item in seven uh regarding the Jones Library vacancy question the questions for the Jones Library candidates will occur now and while we have a preliminary discussion of the Town manager's goals the full discussion is actually postponed till July 15th at this time I'm calling on Austin Strat chair of the Jones Library Board of Trustees to call the meeting of the trustees to order and take take role thank you Lynn uh this meeting of the Jones Library Board of Trustees is called to order please indicate your your presence verbally for here Tammy Tammy didn't hear you still can't hear you Tammy Jean so okay Tammy I heard you Jean here thank you Lee here okay and I'm Austin SAR Lin we're all set thank you uh I'm going to ask Pam Rooney to just come over touch the mic say here and I'm here thank you Pam um okay um you have um in the packet tonight and sent to you last late last week um the revised memo for attachments a through D in addition to that many of you were quite responsive and submitted questions for possible inclusion so is my job whether I've done it well or not um it to try to incorporate those questions into a document that is now attachment e draft questions that is the focus of our discussion tonight um I will say upfront I think the 10 questions is probably too many but uh let's figure out what we can do with that and uh I'd like to start by taking it by sections and see if there are suggestions or changes people would like please use the raised hand function so the section on the role of the Jones Library trustees there's three questions there several of you did provide questions that ask people to think about the future of libraries and so I took an average of the number of years and came up with about 20 um and then there's also two questions that really relate to the collaboration with both the um Library uh director and also the fact that Library trustees are also um serve as a board of a private entity a nonprofit so are there any questions or comments on that first set of questions Sarah Lyn um this is a profession Hazard I do have some edits but maybe we come back to that after we have the bigger picture discussion that's up to you that's fine thank you we can do that okay um all right so then we're going to go roll of all board members and the there's two questions there councelor I'm going to ask you to just lean in say present with your mic and then we'll continue present thank you Austin Lynn just uh you you think you said you think 10 are too many so is there you have a sense of what would be the right number we've usually tried to shoot for about eight okay um you know if we only have two or three candidates it's really not that many but when you start thinking about the fact that each candidate gets one to two minutes to answer each question so as you go through if you have 10 questions an opening statement and a closing statement that's 34 minutes no 20 20 20 30 it's 24 minutes a candidate okay Kathy you have your hand up I was going to add Austin that if you look at some of the question there's two parts um so you know tell me one good thing tell unless we just want you know one-word answers to some of these yeses and knows um some of them ask for uh a longer state so that that was the interest of moving it along in terms of how many um I mean one of the options that we have is that we wait and see how many candidates we have we can cut back on the opening statements we can cut back on the closing statements and for that matter we can even say you know each question is a minute and a half um all right then let's go on to number six strength of and areas for improvement in the Jones Library okay and then current and upcoming issues facing the Jones Library trustees councelor hanin um I think these could be combined in a way um but I also number eight the Clause at the end seems to put a thumb on the scale of something just in how it's worded and I don't like that thumb um I I feel like question seven kind of does too but I understand where seven is coming from um but I I think I would delete eight and maybe keep seven okay are there any other thoughts on that Kathy I was going to have the same suggestion I also think that it's a complex question number eight in terms of if you don't have someone who's ever evaluated a major building project it's kind of a setup and I thought seven was Global enough that they could if the person has some some thoughts on this they could speak to them okay are there any other thoughts on eliminating eight Bob hegner yeah I I uh I I concur with eliminating eight but my concern is that both these questions deal only with the expansion and the renovation project they don't deal with other issues with the library and you know there are many other issues that Library faces so um perhaps we should get it into like what the role of the library is in the community or something like that well we have that in question one okay please describe your understanding of the role of a public library and the services it should provide to the community now and 20 years in the future okay um anyway that was my thought that okay it's kind of narrow Focus here barah um I just wanted to point out just in terms of what Bob said we do have and the repair option in seven so that is covered Okay and like Lynn said the role of the libraries covered in one I'm I'm hearing a consensus that we're eliminating meeting number eight okay uh we're going to go on to skills and interest what additional strengths and skills would you bring and then also as you know trustees serve on a few committees during their time on the board which committees do you you believe most suit your skills uh Farah you have your hand up still oh sorry Kathy this one I guess is too long um when I'm have to go on four lines to read the question so if I'm not sure which what we we're doing here you know do we want to know whether they have any budget analysis skills IND in Investment Management so working with maor when you um so it's what additional strength and skills so I'm not even sure what we mean by additional that we originally asked them so so I just would pair it down um and focus on do you have any strength skills experience on managing a nonprofit organization endowments and budgets you know I would I would make it shorter so I'm not sure exactly which words um you can get into pairing it down I agree with that several people I will tell you tell you did speak particularly to including um for example uh fiscal management management and using endowments and Investments uh working with major building and or repair projects so I was trying to be inclusive here because I did get a lot of comments regarding those so I I think taking the word additional out is probably very appropriate um councelor hanaki so yeah I would take additional out because we don't actually have another question about their skills um and I would delete the entire parenthetical because that gets to only a portion of strengths or skills that someone might have and it seems to say well this is the kind we're looking for and we're not looking for any other strengths and skills and I don't like that it it focuses on just these particular skills when there are many others that can come into play especially with a Board of Trustees um and a a library in general and a public body and all of that so I would delete the entire parenthetical and give it leave it up to the person answering the question to determine what skills they want to highlight um I would delete number 10 completely because um and I feel like number 10 is not something that we as a council should be weighing in on when we pick a board of a library Board of trustee members um that is something that the six Boards of members of the board themselves need to discuss amongst themselves once they have all six there to determine how to set up their own subcommittees and who they should appoint to others so I feel like this is getting into an area that is much more internal to the board itself than who to appoint okay Austin uh ly I was going make the same point about number 10 I think it should be I think I think it should be deleted uh people applying may not know what committees the board has so even if it was appropriate to ask you'd have to give them here here what our committees are so if if it could be deleted I think that would be good right so let me summarize where we are at this point we've made we have made no changes in the first section role of the Jones Library trustees the second section role of all board members or the third section strengths of and areas for improvement in Jones Li in the Jones library in the next one current and upcoming issues facing the Jones Library trustees we've El limited question number eight under skills and interest we've eliminated the word additional in number nine and everything that is in the parentheses and then we have eliminated question number 10 that brings us to eight questions with some modifications in the others are there other questions comments Kathy L just so does number nine read what strengths or skills would you bring to the library Board of Trustees question mark yes good that I just wanted to so question mark was at the end of the print yeah you know so that it's a good question then I like that because they can say anything in there that's relevant thanks Tammy could we add experience what strength skills and experience would you bring excellent okay I think that's a good suggestion and are there other suggestions and other changes Farah this would be the time to do any edits that you'd like to suggest okay um so for the fir oh for the second question I would uh rephrase to say the library Board of Trustees and then continue to say is expected to collaborate with comma and hold accountable comma the library director and then go on to say how would you approach this dual role to achieve the best outcome for the library system right let me make sure I got that the library Board of Trustees is expected to collaborate with comma and hold accountable comma the library director period right yep okay how would you approach this dual role to achieve the best outcome for the library system okay I think I got those okay there's more I mean I could send these to you as a word doc if it's easier better if we come to agreement tonight public meeting okay A Jones Library trustee also has the Dual role for number three and just leave the rest of the sentence as is okay the library Board of Trustees a library Board of Trustees no A Jones Library trustee also has the Dual role of serving as blah blah blah okay A Jones Library trustee also has the Dual role of serving okay got it before you go on I I think you could drop the phrase dual roll which is rep repeated in the second question and the third question and just say the library board right Jones Library trustee and then just just drop out dual rooll and just say you know you do how would you approach this yeah so also has the role no just say how would you approach this role I mean you don't need okay I need to understand are we working on question three yep okay tell me what you would like it to say Farah so right now A Jon it should say a library A Jones Library trustee also has the Dual role of serving and then the rest of the sentence continues as is and you would and the next sentence I believe what Austin is saying is how would you approach this role is that what you're saying Austin no no so Lyn let me just provide a different Jones this is for number three A Jones Library trustee serves as a municipal publicly elected official and a board member of a private entity ah how would you approach these responsibilities that way you're not using the phrase dual roll three times in two questions got it so it would say A Jones Library um trustee serves as a municipal SLP publicly elected official and a board member of a private entity how would you approach these responsibilities yes yeah thank you um for number four yes I would just say tell us about your experience collaborating with a group and then continue with the rest of the sentence is there General agreement with that she's would like to eliminate everything after the comma in number four and just end tell us about an experience you had collaborating with the group no no no that's not what I said Lynn I'm sorry okay uh tell us about your experience collaborating with the group and the rest of the sentence is fine particularly where opinions were in conflict and decisions were controversial okay tell us about your experience collaborating with a group okay comma and then the rest of it yeah okay um for number five the second sentence in the second part of that sentence I would just say what role can the trustees play okay um and the the section where it says strengths solve I would say strengths of comma and areas for improvement in comma okay and for number seven I would just say what are your thoughts on the Jones renovation Expansion Project on the repair option I don't think we need to say concerning the Jones renovation expansion okay that's it all right thank you I'm going to go through and read them one time okay first one stays the same please describe your understanding of the role of a public library and the services it should provide to the community now and 20 years in the future number two the library Board of Trustees is expected to collaborate with comma and hold accountable comma the library director period how would you approach this dual roow to achieve the best outcomes for the library system three a live A Jones Library trustee serves as a municipal SL publicly elected official and a board member of a private entity how would you approach these responsibilities question mark um tell us about the experience your to tell us about your experience collaborating experiences collaborating with a group particularly where opinions are in Conflict yes and decisions are were controversial Andor raised criticism from stakeholders PR uh I'm sorry counselor you have your hand up this is for question two I think you said this dual role is D supposed to be singular or is that plural singular I would say singular singular okay yeah okay pamon you have your hand up I think I would go back to the uh an experience if people don't mind um could you know spend hours talking about my experiences and we really want to limit them to to one incident I think if people are comfortable with that okay so you wanted to read tell us about an experience you have had collaborating with the group particularly with and the the real goal there is so the sentence stays the same the real goal there is to limit them to one EXP experience okay uh Kathy I was just going to say that actually we'd like to have them tell us about an experience you know I mean it's not just have you have you dealt with this but give us an example that's what it's asking for yeah it is asking for an experience an example I mean we could say tell us about give us an example of where you have collaborated with a group particularly where opinions were in conflict please provide an example please provide an example where you have collaborated got it uh Eugene you have your hand up I don't want to revisit question number three but but I'm slightly confused is a Jones Library trustee also a member of the the I'm assuming the board member of a private entity the private entity being the friends of the Jones I know one of are we actually members like it's not like listed that way no the private entity is is the Jones Library Inc right we not members of the board of the friends okay all right okay that's what I was assuming thank you uh the fifth question the town has a commitment to end structural racism and Achieve equity for all residents what role can the trustees play to ensure the public library is a partner in upholding these commitments next one is in the title strength of comma and areas for improvement in comma the Library there's no change to the sentence or the question um under the next area current and upcoming issues what are your thoughts about the Jones renovation Expansion Project and the repair option under skills and interests what strengths slash skills slash experience would you bring to the library Board of Trustees question mark and sentence Austin uh Lynn thank you for all of that um I just want to actually uh suggest that there be a change made in number two and I'm sorry I didn't catch this earlier the board of Library trustees expected to collaborate with and to supervise the library director I think the phrase hold accountable is is a very narrow range of what we do we supervise okay so it reads the it actually had been changed to say the library Board of Trustees is expected to collaborate with and supervise the library director okay verah yeah in which case you don't need the comma after width yes I added that yeah I added two commas in that's no one comma thank you are there any other changes you don't need ID I don't need thank you this is getting messy but that's okay are there any other changes okay we have um come up with eight questions with significant edits I will make sure those are changed and made available and the position has been posted and I just want to remind you so that you encourage people to apply that that posting went up last week and that statements of Interest are due to um the um to the clerk of the Town Council on Tuesday Tuesday July 9th 2024 at 4 p.m. and they will then be certified and then packets will be sent out to all of the candidates as well as to the trustees and to the Council on July 11th and we will conduct these interviews on Monday July 15th at 6 o'clock pm. are there any questions any further comments with that Austin I'm going to ask you to adjourn the trustees thank thank you thank you Lynn um this meeting of the Jones Library Board of Trustees stands in adjournment thank you we're going to go on to announcements um we'll show them on the screen and I just want to mention two events coming up on July 30th at 2:30 uh there is reception uh to welcome and congratulate Captain Ting and press director camela Tariq and that is at M River June did I say July it's June 30th I'm sorry the other one however is July and it's July 2nd at 6 o'clock and that is when the town will celebrate its Fourth of July with fireworks Etc and that is at mcquirk stadium and there is the announcement of that note that the rain date for that is Monday June July 8th okay uh we are going to go on to General Public comment if there's anybody in the room that would like to make General Public comment please make sure you've signed up with Athena if there's anybody in the AUD audience who would like to make public comment please raise your hand at this time okay I am seeing only one hand in the audience and unless I see more that's where we're going to keep it okay we have one in the town room and one in the audience let me just state that public comment on matters are on matters within the jurisdiction of the Town Council residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes the council will not engage in a DI dialogue or comment on a matter raised during general public comment public comments are not reflective of the opinions of the town Council the First Amendment broadly protects individual rights to address the government to speak and to express themselves including their right to say hateful and offensive things I am generally unable to shut those commenters down under the First Amendment to the US Constitution unless their level of speech Falls within an exception articulated by the courts such as fighting words true threats to a particular individual harassment of a particular individual or incitement of imminent Lawless activity if a question exists as to whether a particular speaker is engaging in unprotected speech I must defer to the principles of the freedom of speech will recognize the person who is in the town room first please come forward state your name and where you live make sure the button is on and it's green there we go my name is Andy Anderson I live in District you need to really move into the mic my name is Andy Anderson I live in District 5 I am commenting on the failure of our petition for rank Choice voting to get passed I'm commenting on the failure of our petition to the legislature to uh approve our petition for rank Choice voting for use in our town council elections the uh joint committee on Election laws seemed favorable on this but at the last minute everything was sent to study the word is that the speaker bgf footed it basically um so they came up with some excuses the excuses were well the Statewide vote rejected it you know we are a state with home rule so that doesn't apply we're guaranteed to have the ability to adopt things for our own local governance they said the there were seven home rule petitions and each had their own uh merits they had to study them well we've had ours in there for four years and you know they can study it don't need more time to study it they've had plenty of time to study it they say we had the votes act we have to study its effect well that's not really relevant because they have different characteristics as to what they do um and finally they say any major changes to voting systems at this time is premature and of course rank Choice voting is adop being adopted all over the country it's been in Cambridge for 82 years in East Hampton for three years I think um so there really is no good reason for them to not move forward on this um but I think the point here is that that uh trying to get it through the legislature is going nowhere that is not a method by which this can be finally put into place so you are basically left with three options one is what I've been suggesting for a while now which is just you adopted as a bylaw put it in place um that was the original attention of the charter commission and um that would be the uh simplest way to go it could be done easily and quickly uh you may think that it's should be put directly into the charter there are two ways that this can be done without going through the legislature uh one would be a charter Amendment where the council approves things by two-thirds and then it's put before the the citizens again for a vote um that's sort of what the charter Review Committee is going to do but there's no reason to wait because the charter um you need to conclude the RCV Commission has already reviewed this you could turn around right now and arrange to put it before a vote before the uh citizens this November so it could be used the following November thank you your time is up thank you um Georgia Malcolm please enter the room state your name and where you live and make sure you unmute thank you go ahead Georgia yeah my name is Georgia Malcolm and I real really um you know this idea that the Town Council is going to come up with some way to um curb spending and I just really want to read this to you this is a this was shared with Paul bamman three years ago it's called anti-ra it's a Continuum and I think ammer Falls within here tolerant of a limited number of token people of color and members from other social identity groups allow with proper perspective and credentials may still secretly limit or exclude people of color in contradiction to public policies continues to intentionally maintain wide power and privilege through its formal policies and practices teachings and decision making on all levels of of institutional life often declares we don't have a problem um mon monocultural Norms policies and procedures of dominant culture viewed as the right way business as usual engages issues of diversity and social justice only on club members terms and within their comfort zone you know so for me um you know I look at debba Ferrera who is such um an amazing human being and you know I remember having a conversation with Paul bamman at the high school after a basketball game and I reminded him that I had met with him before and I said when you have a diverse body of people and you have have different perspectives it can be really powerful and he told me that basically you guys have given him the power and he's not going to share it and I think you guys have really done a bad job of hold holding Paul bamman accountable Miss honu spoke about the arpa funds that the black businesses didn't get any money I mean don't you think that's within the realm of what you guys do to look into and maybe even yet maybe first you know clean out your own backyard look at the books get an audit of forensic accounting to come in and look at your books before you come and look at our books because the reality is that that's been happening for years previously Dr Herman taking over the Reigns it's a hard mess they she didn't create it she's inheriting it and I would appreciate because I don't know I mean this policy that you guys are inventing it really doesn't mean anything I'm going to be the president of the Union come July 1st and we're not participating in this Fiasco of what you guys are trying to introduce it is really problematic it is racis it's discriminatory and I wish you guys would Embrace what you are putting out there instead of trying to be you know words you know this Library whatever the hell you're talking about oh yeah make sure it's inclusive it's it's it's it's hogwash it's hogwash and shame on you all do the right thing enough is enough thank you for your comments Arley please enter the room state your name and where you live um hi my name is arle G I live in South ammer um just a couple things um I'm finding and this discussion you had today with the library I'm finding the whole Library town private elected very confusing because this search for the replacement and I assume that's for Robert Pam who left um in the last meeting a big deal was made about the trustees are elected and um you know now is this person going to be elected I it doesn't not I'm very unclear about the whole thing I thought maybe the trustee should make a video or something explaining very clearly what their dual roles are and how this all works because it is very confusing and a friend of mine was just asking me who are the trustees accountable to and I said well I don't think they're accountable to anybody because they're elected but then now the Town Council is helping them find a replacement so if they're so independent and we're not supposed to trespass on their Authority then why is the Town Council doing this it's just it's very confusing and maybe you have explanations for it but I certainly don't understand it okay thank you thank you Arley um that ends public comment we're going to move on to the consent agenda the following items on the consent agenda were chosen because they were assumed to not be controversial I'll read the motion if you'd like something removed please raise your hand to move the following items and the printed motions there under and approve those items as a single unit 8e approval of intergovernmental agreement Public Health shared Services 11 a to c approval of the following meeting minutes March 44 2024 special Town council meeting March 133 2024 special Town council meeting March 27th 2024 special Town council meeting counc hanii um I don't think we have the March 27th minutes yet so I would like to remove them from the consent agenda thank you if I'm correct yeah it's correct thank you for that catch all right are there any other questions is there a second second Rooney thank you we're g to move immediately to the vote we're going to start with Patti Angeles hi on Devon gothier is absent um councelor ET i l gree M and I councelor hanii I Bob hegner I councelor Lord I ham Rooney yes councelor Ryan uh Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes thank you we have no resolutions or proclamations tonight uh we are going to move on to discussion item 7B which is the more war M War Memorial Pool project update and I'm going to turn that to our town manager and assistant Town manager and I think David is in the audience Mandy Joe you have your hand up that was to tell me the minutes weren't there thank you got it Paul so so Amy's rosi is doing the presentation she's not here yet okay so then in that case I think we had told her this would be up at 7:15 so um but if you want to go to the budget yeah so um I'm going to start with a motion on the budget and um go from there having been referred to the finance committee on May 6th 2024 with the finance committee having held a public hearing on May 21st 2024 and submitted a recommendation to the Town Council on June 6 2024 to adopt appropriation and transfer order FY 25-4a a I'm sorry an order appropriating the town of ammer operating budget for fiscal year 2025 as shown on page 12 of the motion sheet is there a second second round and I'm going to call on Bob hegner as chair of the finance committee to speak to the motion well we uh we had a very um long and ser series of meetings uh in June to um review the budget and um I will sort of summarize uh what we found uh first of all that the the town manager proposed a balanced budget that adhered to the guidelines set by the council um and it was revised to increase to 4% for Municipal schools and the Library operating budgets um and the one item we recommended a change as discussed in in the report is the appropriation for the regional school budget we uh recommended an increase to 6% over the 4% uh the things that we noted that were really stressing the budget were labor costs uh wages and benefits which account for most of the operating budgets um are rising faster than revenues State funding is failing to keep up with costs uh Charter Schools cost the town $3 million uh annually uh and are a real problem um we added the crest Department which is a 10p person new Public Safety department uh with full cost in FY 24 and f25 fy2 um the schools relied on Esser funds to support operating budgets and those funds are going to be depleted are going away and we still believe strongly in or support strongly the uh 10.5% uh allocation of property tax to Capital because we need the Capital Improvements um as I said we recognize that the the Regional Schools needed additional funding this year uh and as you'll see later on we recommended that the council uh provide a letter to the regional school committee explaining that we can't support this going forward that we can only uh support a 2.5% increase um going forward and that uh we can't do it um with we just can't um support this going forward and also that the basis for the fy2 six budget should not be the six 6% increase but rather the 4% increase so that's really kind of a summary of what our discussions were and what we uh we wound up supporting and concerning thank you Bob and I want to just take a moment to thank the entire finance committee for just their really serious and long and arduous work during the month of um May ending in June uh and I also want to recognize as we go through this evening that this is the last meeting that the Town Council will be having Holly Drake and Jennifer lefon as the co- Finance directors because on July one our new Finance director begins and so we want to also recognize and thank them for their very very hard work and their true willingness to step into the breach and do an outstanding job for the council and for the town of amers thank you both Jennifer and Holly um so the floor is open now for questions comments regarding the operating budget pamon thank you I wanted to reinforce what Bob said at the end that they that the finance committee has has stated at that they do not want the 6% increase in Regional High School Regional Schools um to become the basis for next year is there a way that we make make sure that that is not um that that does not happen we will get to a letter that's been drafted and placed in our packet and that point is raised in that letter and that's where I assume we would probably discuss that some more otherwise um I think all we can do is send a message unless anybody has any other brilliant ideas once they once we send a message and they give us a proposal we can send another message Bob well ultimately it's what the council decides to to approve um so in the end we the council can decide Bob I think you need to further explain that well I'm I'm sorry um basically the council will decide on the budget for next year and the budget will in will include the regional schools and at some point the issue of whether or not the budget is two and a half percent or 4% or 6% or 8% will be will be there and the council uh ultimately can make a decision as as to what the council decides they want to support right I'd like to take a moment and make sure that Anna Dev and gothier can hear us hi everyone I can hear you thank you thank you we'll call on you in a moment okay oh I just wanted to raise my hand to make sure I could be heard that's all thank you and welcome George I think if if I understand Bob um he's just reminding us that we're the ones who vote on the budget if you want to send a message you send it by uh through the budget um the message we're sending here is somewhat confusing at least what it looks like the message is going to be we're going to Grant a 6% increase when I think many people would say that the message really should be a 4% um we can see what's coming I assume that the school committee can see what's coming but I mean the old adage is when you're in a hole the first thing you do is stop digging but what we're doing is we're digging a hole a little bit deeper um so yes there's a way to send a message and that is through the budget okay Jennifer um so I had a question I might have is this where we ask specific questions that were in the budget or in the report it is okay thank you well first I just want can I do a point of order yeah the motion that's on the floor doesn't include any Regional spending at all and so I just want clarification as to whether we're discussing all of the budgets now despite the Motions on the floor um all operating budgets or just the operating budgets that are on the floor items the next two motions deal with the regional school budget so I I just want clarification I I know we have to have the discussion I just want to make sure we know when we're supposed to be discussing that part thank you it's this is the operating budget without the school Regional Schools in it actually my question wasn't about the Regional Schools okay that's why I was asking right um it's a little nitty-gritty but so it for the planning department it said one of the reasons for some of the budget increases was because the it sounded like the cost of ads had increased so that's when somebody's applying for a building permit is that what that's speaking to or things where you have to post it publicly in the newspaper so has is that ever passed on to the applicants not sure if holler Holly or Jen have the answer to that so the um the cost of ads is I think that we talked about this as finance committee is that that it's they're very high the um we can give you a summary of how much they we've expended in ads um and um so it's hundreds and hundreds of dollars so I think there there is a a charge to the applicant when they apply I'm not sure if we recover the full cost of the ads it can be other things as well like the council when it publishes um bylaws and things like that we have to C the cost of those ads as well if I see Holly and Jen have their hands up so they find better answers than I let's go with Holly Drake first Holly I was actually going to suggest you start with Jen because I think she knows a little bit more about it than I do but yes we do receive a portion back um and I know that they recently increased it but it still does not cover the full cost because the the the cost of advertising at the daily hgar that have just skyrocketed in the last few years Jen you have Mora um nope that's exactly what I was going to say can I build on that and ask is there any reason we can't charge the full cost uh we can check on that I don't know the answer to that okay all right thank you Holly you have your hand up again oh no sorry okay Jennifer did you have further questions I did I was just going to add I recall when I was on the local historic district commission that we did once increase that I don't know if it was just for that commission but we made the price included in I guess when you applied for the building permit to help alleviate some of the cost of posting the Public Notices that went in the paper but that's I then I had um oh a question just it's more a comment um I that the sustainability depart yeah the sustainability Department budget um we just I get my hope would be maybe going forward in the next year we could look at increasing there's at so we have major large ambitious goals for sustainability and reaching our climate action goals but that is a one-person department so I would hope going forward we could look at making that department more robust in terms of staff and what we appropriate um Paul you have your hand yes so thank you for that comment but this is back on the planning the board ads so when the money comes in the money that goes out to pay for the ads comes out of the planning Department's budget the money that comes in goes into the general fund it doesn't it's not a revolving fund or anything like that okay um are there any more questions on the operating budget excluding the Regional School District okay seeing none we're going to move to a row call I'm going to start with Anna Devin gothier I Council r i Lyn grimer is an i councelor hanck hi Bob hegner hi councelor Lord hi Pam Ro yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes Patti Angeles hi it's unanimous the next motion is to adopt approval order FY 25-01 and Order approving the ammer pelum Regional School District assessment method as shown on page 13 of the motion sheet is there a second second Rooney okay the floor is uh Bob would you like to comment on this uh yes I mean we we we discussed this uh in great detail and the understanding we received was that if we don't approve the assessment method this year we'll blow up the budget agreement um that we have to approve the assessment method now we can change our approval as of fy2 uh or we can approve a new we can approve a different uh assessment um in fy2 but we had to uh approve this 6% assessment in order to get the budget through this this cycle councelor hanii I guess I'm going to State it another way if you don't want a 6% increase and you don't want the town of ammer to increase that to that 6% from the 4% guidance you vote no on this motion you know but there are consequences to that but this is the motion you would need to vote no to um because three towns have already approved this assessment method and the budget um the budget therefore is in theory approved because it only needs three of the four towns that's not this motion that's the next motion on the on the motion sheet um this motion is the assessment method it needs all four towns to approve it to be in effect if all four do not in theory we default to the statutory ass assessment method which is not this one um but as Bob said each year we have to revote this to not default to the statutory but because the budget has already been approved by three towns the basically the only the only um way we have to disagree and reject the budget right now in a way that actually does something is to votee no on this I'm not arguing to vote no I actually approved this in the finance committee but I thought I'd put that out there as more of a clarification since this one's up before the budget vote George Ryan councelor Ryan I'm sorry so if we we were to reject this and vote no um it reverts to What's called the statutory that is correct and my understanding is that then it goes to it goes a budget becomes like a one every month it's a one 12th budget until a new budget is proposed or I mean explain what blowing up means I mean I'm not I help me understand because I'm I'm not happy with what we're about to do I understand I read the report the report was excellent it laid out the reasoning um so if if maybe Mandy or someone could could spell out uh what ensues if we were to vote no Andy I'm G to call on you for this one yeah um I wish we were reversing the order in which we were discussing this and we were taking up the regional budget first so that we have a place to have a healthy discussion of that that doesn't get confusing this is a confusing question because there are two I've heard two different views and I'm still trying to come to grips with why we're hearing two views Dr slaughter has said on several occasions that if um the assessment method is rejected that it doesn't necessarily default automatically or right away to um the statutory method but that it causes the budget to fail because it's integral to the budget and um I've never quite understood that because um it just um as I read the statute I keep getting confused just to where that comes from and I've not had the opportunity to ask Dr slaughter that question um the um if it is uh that it falls to the statutory method I think that is disadvantage to us because we lose the averaging um that happens with the current method as agreed to by the four towns where it's not the single year which can be very unpredictable and can vary a lot but it's actually an average of years that um is presented in order to buffer the and that was the agreement that was reached um under sha Mangano's leadership to try and uh find a method that would not have the unpredictability with it so this is an extraordinarily complicated question but I would encourage us to just um concentrate on the assessment method which I do recommend and have the discussion about the regional budget when we get to the discussion of the regional budget U I don't think we can guarantee that voting no on this would cause the budget to fail and um I think there would be consequences for the uh um schools that we need to talk about with the other motion if it would be more comfortable we could put this motion aside and go to the next one and then come back to it you'd need a motion to to table yes yeah I'd make a motion to table until we have completed the motion on the regional school budget is there a second second who was the second J Jennifer okay um motion's been made in second is there any question this means we would just come back to this motion after we do the next one Mandy Joe okay um we're going to begin the vote to table this motion with um councelor ete I ly grimer and I councelor hanii I Bob hegner I councelor Lord I Pam Rooney yes councilor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg yes Ander toab yes councelor Walker yes Patti Angeles I Anna Devin goth I okay we're going to now go on to the next motion uh this motion was not submitted by the finance committee I just want to note that the motion is as follows having been referred to the finance committee on May 6th 2024 with the finance committee having held a public hearing on May 21st 24 and submitted a recommendation to the the Town Council on June 2024 to adopt the revised approval appropriation and transfer order FY 25-2 an order approving Amis pelum Regional fy2 2025 budget and appropriating the town of ammer shair of the budget assessment submitted by the town manager on June 4th 2024 as shown in page 14 of the motion sheet is there a second second thank you okay this is the actual 6% okay Bob would you like to speak to this well I think I've already spoken to it I mean I think that um people need to understand first of all that the other three towns did vote this uh 6% increase before we had a chance to to vote on it so it was sort of a um it was sort of a a f comp um by the time we got to it um you know we don't we're not happy with this we don't like the fact that we're using arpa funds to to plug the Gap um we don't like the idea that we're violating our own guidelines by using one you know um using uh a single source of one-time source of funding to to fill operational uh needs but um the the schools are in crisis right now and we're trying to patch the the life raft if you will um and keep it keep it afloat for another year and hopefully the the school committee is going to uh look at the budget in a hard way and U make some decisions on what me needs to happen uh we don't have any guarantees of that uh but you know we went back and forth on this and in the end we decided that it was probably best to just fund the schools with what they need uh what they've asked for and you know hope that things are better next year Kathy I want to Echo what Bob just said I was strongly in favor of this I think we have a school system that's been as we all know without a superintendent with a finance director doing two jobs and uh a series of other issues the new superintendent is coming in with Incredible challenges and to be facing her and this this allows us to smooth it over yes just for one year so I think it's the smart thing to do you know it is um the other thing I want to say this is not necessarily of the schools making by themselves we have two State policies that are sucking resources out of our school system over time they've been hurting Community after Community not just damers the first is the way Chapter 70 works if you have declining enrollment we are losing ground the state money is paying for a smaller share than it used to of the school budget of the town's budget and then the second which is even larger is the way the charter school formula Works 3.3 million comes out of our elementary and our regional school budget every year we send $20,000 per student so when one student chooses to leave and goes to a charter we send 20 if they choose to go to a pelum elementary school we send 5,000 so it is just pulling it out and you can see it the numbers the kids were you losing the charter schools do not take do they they don't have the capacity to take severely special need kids that need a high level of Staffing to take care of them so what we're seeing where our enrollment is declining is in the other kids um and so we have two things hitting our school system that are undermining its finances so I am strongly in favor of at least doing this we will have to Grapple with it the school committee will and the superintendent will because there's not a quick fix for next year I mean we can see what's happening Northampton South Hadley all the towns around us so this is not a oh one could have fixed it along the way so I think there are some adjustments but I think we need to do this and I was strongly in favor of keeping the assessment method for the same reason we can start earlier in the fall to start talking about this with the school system but right now we need to get give them a way to start the year councelor Ryan first we know that things won't be better next year it's not may be better they won't be better this will make it worse deficit won't be something like a million and a half and the finance directors looked at the right at this and it deficit grows over the next couple of years here so we're just making something that's already bad worse Kathy's right that there are systemic issues here that have been that make this very difficult the charter formula um the lack of state aid right there are a number of things that are outside of our control but that's been known for some time that's not a surprise this has been going on for a long time it's not like somebody woke up yesterday and thought Oh State Aid's been flat oh the Char of schools are really hurting us we've known this for a long time and we do the best we can with it and obviously there are hopes that someday this can be addressed but that's a hope but we know that what has been different over the last few years is the use of Esser funds to support recurrent costs knowing that was going to blow a hole in your budget so it's kind of like the person who you know has a life WRA and then punches a hole in it and then yells out to you to come and save them so the exra fund knowingly that was going to lead to a serious problem which it has and then the well-deserved salary increases right that's great but anyone paying attention would see that that was going to have serious consequences going forward for the budget so those are two decisions that have been made over the last few years um and that's a good reason why we're in this position so um I understand that this is a bridge but I don't agree completely that somehow this is a surprise where was a catastrophe that now we just have to Quick make this bridge um a lot of some of what has happened has been the result of actions that have been taken knowingly over the last few years and now we're supposed to come to the rescue are there any other comments seeing none I'm going to move to the vote and this is the vote for the Regional School operating budget uh begin with myself Lyn grimer is an ie counselor hanck I Bob hegner I councelor Lord I cam Rooney yes councelor Ryan abstain Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer toab Yes councelor Walker yes Patti Angeles I Anna Devon gothier I councelor ate I it's 12 in favor with one exstension we're now going to go back to the assessment method I move to remove from the table the motion on the assessment method a second the the motion to table had a until that vote was taken so I'm not sure that it's necessary but if you want to make the motion that's fine okay um we're going back to the assessment method this is to adopt approval order fy2 5-01 in order approving the Amis pelum Regional School District assessment method as s shown on page 13 of the motion sheet it's been made and seconded uh Bob you've already spoken a little bit to this I'm going to go to Kathy Shane I yes I want to speak in favor of this as um was stated earlier three towns have already approved it to not approve it would have a house crashing around our ears which I don't think we want to have happen I do think the discussion of the assessment method needs to happen in the poll this doesn't mean we are forever more going in that direction and the letter the draft letter that's in your packet uh points to this we're doing it for this year but the assessment method next year 6% is not going to be sustainable we don't even know whether we'll be able to get to four or three and a half um so this was made clear during our discussion it is clear in the uh the document itself and in the letter so I think this is one where with three towns already stretching themselves to go there this we need to do or the whole thing what we just passed before doesn't work this is part of the package are there any other comments and we're going to move to a vote councelor Ani hi Bob hegner I councelor Lord I Pam Rooney yes councelor Ryan abstain Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes paty Angeles hi Anna Devon gothier I councilor I Lyn grimer is an I it's 12 in favor one exstension now we move on to um the financial order 25-22 an order approving the amers pelum Regional School District FY no 03a oh God we I'm sorry we've already done that um having been referred to the finance committee on March on May 6 2024 with finance committee having held a public hearing on May 21st 2024 and submitted a recommendation to the Town Council on June 6th 2024 to adopt approval order FY 25-3a an order approving the Amis pelum Regional School District debt authorization for fy2 as shown on page 15 of the motion sheet is there a second M seconds Bob hegner did you want to speak to this um this is pretty much um it's it's a lot of the uh the Capital Improvements were were actually reduced by the the uh Regional Schools in order to um make it uh less onerous uh on the towns and in order to fit within the budgets and so um I think I think the I I can't remember the specific projects now but I mean they they all seem to be reasonable projects that were necessary uh there wasn't any any project in there that we thought was uh not not important enough to fund are there any other questions or comments Pam roone I did have one question on the uh the high school the boundary fence of $20,000 I was assuming that this perhaps would be part of the new track um project why would it be in here as well does anybody have a response to that councelor hanck I don't know specifically but it might be a different part of the area there's a lot of boundary fence at the high school property not just on matun street and so it might be a different fence than the one that borders I don't know but that's a possibility and if it's double spending we make sure they don't do it uh any other questions or comments moving to a vote Bob hegner I councelor Lord I Pam Rooney yes councelor Ryan I Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes Patti Angeles I an Devon gothier I councelor ET I Lyn gur and I councelor hanii hi it's unanimous the next is the capital Improvement program in the large one okay point of order I just want to ask about the schedule because I notice it's 7:15 so are we going to try and finish I think we ahead budget before we go back to War Memorial okay um a second point of order before you read that motion and we had an email come in today that indicated we might have the wrong dates for the public hearing on this motion and the next Motion in section B so I'd just ask our clerk to confirm the public hearing date before you read the motion I'm waiting to for Athena to confirm um I want to say we had this hearing on the 3rd of June but I'm trying to find the form it's possible it was last week I don't remember yeah it was June 3 it yeah it is June 3 thank you um so thank you so the motion reads as follows having been referred to the finance committee on May 6th 2024 with the finance committee having held a public hearing on May 21st June 3rd on June 3D 2024 and submitted a recommendation to the Town Council on June 6 2024 to adopt appropriation and transfer order FY 25-5a and Order appropriating funds for a portion of the town of Amber Capital program equipment building buildings and Facilities as shown on page 16 of the motion sheet is there a second second thank you uh Bob um this is actually uh comes right out of the uh jcpc um deliberation so maybe Kathy can talk about that okay Kathy uh yes but I also have a question Bob so that was a nice pun over to me but you know when when we reviewed the um capital budget we did have the jcpc report and the Bob and I both served on it as did um Anna and we had to stretch a lot this year because of the Staffing vacancies in the finance department so we got so we we the budget you saw took Yan's effort on a lot of people's part to pull it together so one of the things um that we noticed this year so we have a strong recommendation going forward is some items appeared on this year's capital budget that weren't on last year's and they came on as urgent and they were bid ticket items we have a five-year plan and it would be good to know if a $2 million project is in the works rather than have it pres presented so we we were convinced that it was necessary but we didn't completely finish our work um so one of the things you'll see is that each year we've been doing a asking the Departments to look at past authorizations and closing out the books that on more than three years old and they're not spent asking people if they're going to spend it there wasn't time to get that done so we're looking at a year ago rather than this year so what we're now this is the amount of cash that was listed in the jcpc report um to be authorized so that's a long explanation of where that money comes from but you have to look at the capital budget to see what we're spending it on you know so the list is the amount here so Lyn I do have one question on this even though I chaired the committee okay my question is and it's one of Paul if if you look closely at it you'll see because of the squeeze that we're facing in capital the road share dropped to $500,000 and so my question is if we authorize this amount of cash but we have questions on a few of the items we never for example discussed the Jones it allocation for 51,000 we just never got to it so if the library is going to be closed it's not clear we need to make that appropriation the urgency of the demolishing of the club down at at Hickory Ridge it's not clear we have to do that this year it looks like the building has to come down so my question is Paul could we revisit a few of these and shift it into roads and still approve the 4.4 million in cash because the way the appropriation list is a long list rather than an itemized list and I don't know how um to I guess that's my articulation so it comes out to be you know shift 150 a couple ,000 back into roads because we can wait on two of them for next year so yes so this is the budget that was reviewed and approved by the joint Capital planning committee it was the budget that was reviewed and approved by the finance committee um typically what happens is in the fall when we have our free cast certified and we know how much money we have we try to allocate additional funds for certain projects specifically I understand that roads is a high priority and if we have additional funds that we've closed out uh we can we can look into adding more money to roads um The Challenge we have quite frankly is managing the money that is already in the pipeline and so recognizing the the limits of the capacity of our staff to you know to spec out bid out and then oversee the the roads projects is is a is a piece of this as well um so typically what happens and you asked for this to be done earlier at the end of the fiscal year and the the comproller has already started this um she starts to go through all the capital items um see which ones are in progress sees which ones are not being moved forward and then closes out the ones that um that are not being Advanced and that happens in the during the course of the summer and that comes back into the fall when we know how many projects are being which ones are moving forward which ones are not so um I guess what I'm hearing you say is you'd like more money into roads I agree with you and if we can find more money to put in roads and we can we can absorb that into our management plan we will do that Kathy and just P my other question is with how much flexibility do you have as Town manager so we have the capital plan with a list of projects to say this one even though it was on the list is not as urgent as shifting some more money to Road can you do that or have we locked you in so these are the projects that we have presented to the council you know I won't just throw a new project on there out of the blue because I think we have a we have a process that we abide by that involves all three elected bodies the library trustees the school committee and the council um and I really honor that process so so you won't see me um add something that you have not reviewed unless because it would require Council to typically appropriate funds in terms of some some projects if they if we're not ready to move them forward uh there are a lot of projects that sometimes don't get moved forward for a variety of reasons um and so um sometimes they don't get Advanced and some and you'll see them um the money stays there for a couple years uh while we we're moving things forward so um I have the ability to not move projects forward if we're not prepared to do them or or the bids come in too high or whatever hope that answers your question Kathy so so thank you you know it is an odd thing I'm asking because I was chair of the committee that reviewed these but um one of the unusual things this year is how late we started so we all just heed a sigh of relief to get to the Finish Line before the report was due which gave us you know so we you know in a couple of these poll we didn't say does it have to be done this year there was a good reason to do it and then the end product is this $500,000 on road so I'm just saying you know reviewing some of these on the urgency maybe it doesn't get done this year or next year so ly I'm not saying to undermine the process um it was it was really a tough project it was much harder this year than it has been because of the STA the staffing issues um thank you George so I'm sure Paul won't be surprised uh that that I'm going to express my dismay too at the 500,000 that just just one away from road paving um as I believe he knows I'll be 108 years old when we finally do catch up with the backlog so I'm kind of hoping that maybe we could think of ways that we could put some money into that so I just want to Echo what Kathy said um I really do would like an explanation or some kind of story about the 900,000 for public uh safety radio system and then it's a million the next year so it's a 1.9 million expenditure that according to your report was not anticipated like last year so i' like to understand I mean could that be delayed a year or two um is and it would seem since it just suddenly appeared that it could be so did you get an explanation or accounting from someone why this has to be done right away and why it wasn't yes told to us before we did we actually started to push it off for that reason George saying you know if it wasn't in the pipeline before and we discovered that they've been working on it for a couple years that the radio frequencies don't talk to each other in the way we want to with other towns and their dead zones and the equipment the base equipments are about to not be serviced anymore by the manufacturer so we split it the original request was all of it in the one year and so it was split into two so um Sandy perer actually had said let's just move this off to next year and then went back and had a long discussion with uh the the fire chief and the police chief and they said this is actually pretty urgent that we get this to work now and it's a speak UHF VHF I'm not going to be good on this technical this allows both to talk to each other and us to talk to other towns on the same frequency so it's they're multi bands so it it was um startling to have this on the list and the initial reaction was where did it come from and then we found out been in the work for a couple couple years they'd gone out to bids they had contracts could they rent it rather than buy it what with the lease arrangements so with then we got a huge amount of documentation on on this being something that we need to move forward and that convinced us to leave it in the other thing I just want one more thing on this is the current uh appropriation we're looking is for the cash Capital all of this is borrowing so it actually doesn't show in cash this year so it's one of these we borrow it and it's showing up next year so it's not it's not an expenditure line for FY 25 it is for FY 26 the actual dollars um so that may not uh say enough but the documentation that we got after you know after we first discussed it and Bob can talk to this we got this very long document that showed that they looked at different pieces we asked about just renting it and the rentals look like we would end up paying a lot more for the equipment than buying it so they had gotten some bids on that as well yeah just a just a point of order this is actually a separate motion to do the borrowing right so what I was saying it's not in the it's not in I'm sorry to split that's what I was trying to say Bob it's it's in the second piece it's not it's not drawing on this year's cash so it's not competing with roads it will compete with roads next year George did you have any further up yeah I just again I appreciate this I know that this is needed I understand that they've been working on it but it does seem to have come struck at least the the joint jcpc with complete surprise and I'm trying to understand how that could happen just how could yeah a point of order Lyn this the public safety radio system is on the next order it's not on the it's not part of the order that's on the floor right now that's right yes that's I was try Andy did you have any comment after with the last comment I was just wondering if I should wait but um when we had our various meetings for the operating budget with the V department heads we did as um typically happened hear a little bit about the capital requests that were coming um that are related to those departments and when we were hearing from Public Safety at the finance committee U we heard from the two of the major departments uh police and fire uh that very strong statements about why this is urgently needed and their ability to function smoothly and in a coordinated fashion is really dependent upon um this equipment so um I just wanted to add that we heard that at those meetings thank you George did you have any follow-up question I still don't think it answers my question but apparently we're not discussing it now anyway so we'll discuss it in the next uh all right motion okay so we are um going to move to the vote this is on transfer order fy2 d5a in order appropriating funds for a portion of the town of ammer Capital program equipment buildings and Facilities start with councelor Lord I Pam roon yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer to yes councelor Walker abstain Patti Angeles hi anad delin goth here is absent please note that she left the meeting at um 720 uh councelor ete yes Lynn greear and I councelor hanii hi Bob hegner I it's 11 in favor one absten one absent Now we move to the actual borrowing and I believe the date here is also June 3r is that correct okay having been referred to the finance committee on May 6 2024 with the finance committee having held a public hearing on June 3rd 2024 and submitted a recommendation to the Town Council on June 6 2024 to adopt appropriation and transfer order FY 25- 06a and Order approving and authorizing borrowing to fund capital projects Bond authorization as shown on page 17 of the motion sheet is there a second second are there any questions or comments Pam Rooney thank you the way it's written here it would appear to me that the borrowing is for 1,800,000 and it's all in one borrow even though we've had several conversations about we would do part a one year and Part B another but it is not clear that but that is how it's being voted here so there's two different parts to the borrowing the chiller replacement for 900,000 and the public safety radio system for 900,000 as shown on page 17 thank you okay councelor hanii did you have your hand up I did um our Public Safety officials cannot operate if they do not have a functioning radio system the radio system they have is over 20 years old it might even be over 30 years old and they're asking for us to replace it with a new system because the system they have is not is barely functionable functional it doesn't cover the entire town there are dead areas where they can't actually radio each other and the system is not really repairable at this time it's going to be almost unrepairable soon I'm at a loss to see why this is such a controversial purchase it's something that our fire department our Police Department potentially even our Crest Department cannot function without and we've heard that yes it was in the it's been in the process for number of years for some reason it didn't actually show up on The Five-Year Plan but it's not like it wasn't thought of for five years it was already being costed out and all of this we need this system and it should not be controversial councelor Ryan so the controversy is not about the need for the system and the controversy is not about uh what councelor hanck has just said the controversy is about why this seems to have come out of the blue I get the sense reading the report that this was unexpected um it seems like something we have to do and we should do it for the reasons that have done stated my question was and still is why was this not I mean it thought was being thought about um it seems like it wasn't it wasn't part of The Five-Year Plan why wasn't it part of the fiveyear plan how can you do a five-year plan if something like this suddenly just comes to you out of the blue um Hickory Ridge issue is is is a minor amount and it's it's a recent development it's a public health safety it's a safety hazard public health hazard needs to come down small amount but this is you know a huge chunk of money we've known about it for some time but apparently the the capital The Five-Year Plan didn't know about it that's my question it's not about the value of this clearly is important has to be done it's more about the process Paul and yeah I'm sorry anything else George Paul no I think you're right George in terms of uh councilor Ryan because it should have been in last year's plan it wasn't that's a um a a disconnect on our on the staff side so I think that's a fair statement that doesn't uh demean the need for the the equipment I think that that's not what you're saying you're saying how how did this process break down and um you know I think we recognize that it did that the the public safety folks were just not in touch with our finance direct Finance folks last year when this should have popped up and um my apologies to to the council for that it should have Bob hegner yeah I I agree that we with with councilor Ryan that it shouldn't have happened but it did um and um I think we have made it very clear uh going forward that this we don't want surprises like this um that they're not they're not acceptable um I don't know what what else to say I mean it it it you know people just screwed up on this one um and uh you know it's a big chunk of money I agree but as councelor hanii said this is something that we can't say no to um we've got to have uh the police and fire have to be able to talk to each other so anyway it's it's it's not a great situation but um you know I think we'll you know we dealt with it the way I think we we needed to and uh we hopeful hopefully we've sent a message that this shouldn't happen again councelor Ryan you have further comment yes just for the record um the issue is about the process not about the need that's what I was trying to say say I thought it did say actually thank you councelor Ryan Kathy Shane yeah uh say okay to me looking forward one of the things I think that we in the jcpc since I've been on it now for several years we don't do enough to look at all five years we focus just on the year and so one of the things I've noticed is year 2 three four and five if I look at last year's 2 3 4 and five uh George they don't always match this year's 1 2 3 4 and it's only a year later so just trying to think Paul it as the staff thinks about the out years at least two years in a row not not necessarily all five um so some things come on this year's third year that weren't even on the horizon last year but we just didn't have time to talk about those you we were trying to bring home so I think there's a general process that if it's a 5-year plan we should get the big ticket items on it and if they disappear um that's fine but there shouldn't be a mismatch so this is the first time something this big happened um and I think we've just got there was a a glitch um but hopefully in the future we will see the FY 26 come fairly close to what we thought FY 26 was going to be without big surprises Andy Steinberg yes jcpc say challenge can't hear you Andy I'm sorry I thought I had it that um you know jcpc always has a challenge in dealing with Five-Year Plan it's important that we have one but it's never going to be perfect because there are always going to be um unexpected items that arise and the there also going to be um urgency changes where things which were determined to be urgent um three or four years from now become more urgent as we get closer in time because of changes in condition um but it is an important part of the process to at least give jcpc the opportunity to look and compare and to ask um because those questions are there I just don't want to um anybody to expect that What's um that year four one year is going to look like year three the next year year two the year after it just doesn't work that way uh we used to have an additional column which is kind of Beyond and uh Beyond became so um cumbersome and things would stay there forever that it became kind of a a decision that that just do away with uh that additional column because that was uh uh really becoming of no use the other thing is is that I think the councelor Ryan is absolutely correct that we have a huge problem with um roads and um you know he talked about projecting into the future and how old he was going to be before we'd get done and of course the reality that I was trying to point out in the conversation recently with him was that actually I'm not convinced we'll ever get done because roads always deteriorate um and unless we happen to move amorist from its current climate location in the Northeast to a different part of the country where roads don't Decay is quickly because of wintertime driving um that it is something that we're going to have to face I think the last thing that I want to point out is that um Town manager said something a few minutes ago which is that we hope that um each year that there will be excess free cash because we're very careful in how we budget so that we project um each year to try and end up with not a deficit and the opposite of the deficit is we get some excess free cash and uh I think it's important every year that we look at the free cash as um a potential for additional Road money and um scrutinize other requests for free cash transfer and make sure that we have the balance right uh but this is not the only time of the year where we should be talking about roads and I don't think it is the only time of the year that we talk about roads motion's been made and seconded we're going to move to a vote Pam Rooney yes councilor Ryan I Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer Tod yes councel Walker obain paty Angeles hi Anna delin goth here oh was absent I'm sorry uh councelor ET yes Lyn grimer and I councelor hanck hi count uh Bob hegner hi councelor Lord hi it's 11 in favor one exstension one absent we're going to move on to the letter to the regional school committee regard order yes I'm wondering if we can go back to War Memorial the letter does not need any staff and War Memorial's discussion does that sounds like a good idea why don't we [Music] um okay Amy you're here right yes hi um we're going to go back to item 7B but also Amy you are also here for item 8e which is the water and sewer rates so let's make sure we get both done while you're with us okay thank you so I understand there's a presentation and we're going to begin with that yeah let let me just introduce this please so some years ago we the town did had Weston Samson doing a downtown uh Recreation study and it had a very comprehensive uh analysis of the recreational needs downtown um and we've been sort of picking through the things as they come up the thing that has um Arisen most recently has been and it's you know not like this week or anything has been the War Memorial Pool and the bath house that's associated with it and so we started doing some work into what that would take what it would take to rehab the War Memorial Pool bath house and then as you we look at this um comprehensively we say well what what are the improvements we'd like to make to that entire area so that's the work that we have done and um I can come back to later but maybe the first thing is for uh Amy to give you a a glimpse of it what we what and just a spoiler alert the number is really big and so that has given us pause in terms of what we can really afford is in the time and what what the timing would would be so there's no request to the council tonight this is purely informational for your for your benefit am am all right well Paul did half of that so now I'm gonna it's all good we're gonna be jumping everywhere now uh so yeah so I just wanted to this is more just kind of an update for informational purposes for you guys um so I'm sorry to kind of shoe horn it in on a night when I know you guys are very busy with a lot of other important topics um but thought it was important that you guys understand what's going on so um atha if you can go to the next slide um so uh as Paul said um this project we kind of have the short-term goal and then the long-term goal um the long-term goal is we do want to look ultimately at revitalization of that entire area anybody that's been to the playground been to this uh basketball court has seen that um it it it could use a facelift you know it could use a little more attention and it's got a lot of outdated equipment um but the more immediate need is the bath house um but because of that as we approached this project we didn't just look at hey let's replace the bath house in kind we said okay what are the additional uses and how can we think about the bath house in a way that takes into consideration what the Future Vision of this area is um and I threw in a quote from that uh 2019 facility strategic plan that Paul was referring to to which just said the pool housee building is beyond its useful life um quickest way I could ever tell you the conditions of where we're at um buttha if you can go to the next slide um some of these I just have a couple of photos that show truly the conditions of the bath house um our guys on an annual basis do everything they can to patch this up and get this open um but we struggle each year to continue to pass the inspection to be able to open the bath house um so you're seeing you know on the left hand side there's some you know a bunch of rusted up pipes and you can see the condition of the floor there um you know even though they paint over it the condition of the floor is in really rough shape um and on the right hand side um again there's some CMU block that is pulling away from each other so it's causing some cracks and there's also a lot of um again rust on on the pipes um if you can go to the next one Athena um you know we've got some separation in the wall on the left hand side and and some um splitting if you look carefully there's some U CMU wall um CMU blocks that are also splitting over there um we've got some cracks where the um uh between the foundation and the bottom of the the blocks that it's starting to kind of erode up which makes it big enough for um rodents of all sizes to be able to get into the poolhouse and uh do their damage inside um and this kind of if you've ever walked around the pool house and just looked um you can see splitting like that um almost the entire way around the building um and I think at the end of there's one more picture like that yeah um so the last one is just showing again the um you know a pipe with a bunch of rust on it um and I guess this photo in the um the scope that you guys are looking at you can't quite see it but if you look at the roof of the building um there's several places where there's shingles missing as well um so some of these are just quick snapshots um but you know again it's it's not putting our best foot forward for sure um as somebody comes to the pool and then they're going through um a pool house that has you know splitting CMU blocks and has uh you know rusted pipes and H you know um has a floor that just is showing its age so um if you can go to the next slide Athena so just kind of a brief history on this um the War Memorial pool and bath house was constructed in 1953 so at this point we're looking at you know what is that a 70y old building um you know it's it's had a good long hearty life um and then as far as we can tell in terms of upgrades to this facility we know that there was a filter system replacement at some point we're not sure um but we know in 2012 um we had um uh CPA funding um approved um some improvements or they funded some improvements um and that included a new filtration system and a PVC liner and there also was a pool deck replacement including a lot of accessibility improvements um but it didn't really touch the building and so the building is really kind of 70 years old and other than uh the paint jobs and um spot improvements here and there it's it's essentially a seven-year-old structure um uh Paul talked about the 2019 facility strategic plan which recommended reconfiguration and enhancements to theu Community Field area in general uh which includes the war memorial area um what you're seeing on the leand side of this slide is the we call it the 10,000 foot view of this area so kind of what they envisioned um which included you know the pool and a a poolhouse a splash pad uh playground areas um and and a bunch of other ways to just really kind of um Revitalize that area and bring bring more people to that area um and so 2024 CPA funds uh were allocated for us to start this preliminary design which includes that schematic design of the entire area so it could inform what we want for the uh bath house design so that's kind of our brief history um Athena if you can go to the next slide so um this is what our Consultants have come up with thus far in terms of the um the schematic design of the area as they're moving forward with um design on the bath house and so what they're looking at is um a new bath house which is uh relocated uh to the east side of the pool um and one of the things that we're looking at with this is trying to right now the bath house serves just the pool needs so it's open for two months a year so it means it's you know this is this is an expensive pro uh project as Paul says but it's a project that um if if we were simply to replace the bath house in kind um you're looking at a facility that is used for two months out of the year so we're looking at ways to make it um a little more worth the value of what we're getting so we are looking at one uh bath house that's an eight-month operations so it can be used for the pool operations during those two months and then when the pool is closed it can be used um as restroom facilities um basically it's not going to be a heated space so basically the entire season that um we're not freezing outside and so that would mean for users of the track this would be the nearest rest you know public restroom facility um if at some point we get this whole playground area it would be uh for that as well um as well as you know people that are up on like say the softball field this would be the nearest um restroom facility for them to use um and one of the things that we are looking at is having a community room on the bath house um and again that there's a lot of pluses to that of you know being able to have a space that you could have camps you could have meetings um it could you know potentially generate a little bit of Revenue with um you know renting it for say parties and stuff like that um the the the cost of that isn't it's pretty incremental when you look at the whole thing but again we understand that that's that's an item we may have to compromise on um the the preliminary design also is fully Ada accessible so it's looking at bringing the entire site up to the current Ada accessible um guidelines um there's the splash pad area as a future buildout um and also the upgraded area for play and picnic um that's kind of in the phase two if you are uh if you will of the area um and and the Consultants have been pretty Innovative as they've been designing stuff so they've been looking at um ways to integrate that slope there's a j there's a burm there that basically separates the softball field above to that war memorial area so they're looking at ways to incorporate um the slope whether it's um an embankment slide or other play elements on the slope um or using it for like a small Amphitheater area so um and then they also were looking at um uses of the storm water which um this site needs a lot of kind of storm water control and so they were looking at ways of kind of incorporating that into some of the Play Elements um so we think um generally the the consultant has been pretty creative in finding finding these little ways to um really be Innovative if you can go to the next slide um this just kind of shows quickly the the phasing because EV everyone that looks at that design they get really drawn in by the playground and the ele all the fun elements um and I I do want to be clear that um the more immediate need is the bath house and so you know just replacing the bath house and doing the site improvements that are needed around the bath house area that's the phase one that's a little more immediate um and the phase two so the the more fun the more fun elements um at this point are the Future Vision that we need to keep in mind but aren't necessarily um what's driving this forward um and I do I do want to be clear as as I'm saying this that you know you can't open a pool without a facility for bather or for swimmers to change and to shower ahead of time and so the having a bath house here um is what's allowing us to continue to operate more Memorial Pool and so um that that's part of the the driving force here is if um if this pool house Falls in disrepair and we can't open it one year then it means this entire pool facility is offline until we can find a solution um next slide um so as Paul said it's a big number um right now for the phase one the final design and construction of it um they're estimating uh right now they're estimating it's on the order of $4 million um we got CPA funding hopefully if you guys voted it um for FY 25 um for three4 of a million and the intent of that was to have um matching portions of um Town matching funds for if we were looking at Grants um based on the timing of where we're at we are looking at uh 2025 as the earliest option to apply for grant funding um and there's half a million to 1 million in potential grant funding uh based on what program we go after and if we're successful um and then you know I do want to put it out there that we're we're likely going to be coming back to CPA this year um for another um funding request um you know at some point we're going to have to figure out how we can bridge bridge the gap between what we have now even with some grant funding and what the cost will be so I think that's it I think my last slide just says questions um but you can see a lot of the um playground equipment that I'm sure was really Innovative in 1950s when it was placed but um yeah unless Paul has anything else to add that's that's all I wanted to update you guys on yeah thank you Amy um yeah it's a great vision for this area given this the numbers have we just that we've looked at we're not prepared to move forward on the park Grant which would be the major grant for this this year uh we just need to do more sort of financial planning for this project and how it fits into our overall plan the number was much higher than we had anticipated so uh we're going to continue to um look into to how you know I think we've got the basis for a good plan we have a phased process which is really good um but the financing has to be worked on more uh in more detail um the in there's a you know there's also a conversation whether the town really wants to have two outdoor swimming pools that's something that's important for the the conversation for us to have because if we are then we have to make this investment um M river is a much higher we I don't want to get into that discussion now except to say why is this pool important this is where all of our camps that we use during the Su that we have during the summer that's where all the kids go swimming from the camps they could use M River but it requires Transportation up and back so that's the good thing about this pool there's some members of the community that also use it so U but I think this leads to a larger discussion about our investment in recreational facilities uh especially such a large investment as this councelor hanii so thank you Amy and thank you Lynn for putting this Ona um a couple of comments I think we need to put just like we did for the Fort River School replacement and wildwood school replacement where we said to The Architects and designers no more than 100 million um and they came in under that and it's I think one you know that's a big number right but but they came under that and as we saw with jabish Brook down in Belchertown um when you don't think about cost you lose completely we can do this for 100 million but I I think 4 million is too much we need to be looking lower um and we need to tell them it needs I think we have to come in with another number and tell them find a way to come under something another number um I was going to bring up do we even need another Pool um if we have a pool do we need a splash pad there and I know phase one doesn't include the other parts but I am concerned learned that the newest drawings get rid of all of the Teen and adult use in favor of more children use um the kids have a park two blocks away to play in the teens have nothing the adults don't have something there's plenty of outdoor wreck stuff for adults and for teens and we need a space for it and this is what I was hoping this space would be and now in the 10,000 foot view it's completely gone again um that really concerns me because the teens given that this is right by the high school the teens need it um the adults could use it that way too you know if you put in one of those exercise things and all and I know there was an exercise circuit way over by DPW we're still waiting we're in summer and we're still waiting on your thoughts on DPW that could be another decade or more we need teen space now um as to the bath house the design I saw that you guys have pulled because it was really expensive and didn't even show those um seemed to indicate that the bathrooms if it was summer would be available for pool users only because you'd have to go through the pool to use it and you'd have to pay your pool entrance and then outside of the pool hours maybe you could close the pool off and then have them available for that I think in the summer those bathrooms need available for both sets of users whether that means we have to have kind of two sets of bathrooms with a gate in between so that you don't have to pay to get in to use the bathrooms I don't know but 8 months a year they need to be accessible for people not using the pool if we keep a pool there um they can't not be accessible in the summer months to those not using the pool um so I think that needs to be in there and at this point that's what I oh the other thing I had was the basketball courts again I know there's a full plan that's on like phase three I don't know how long phase three is um but moving this bath house to where it goes which makes a lot of sense would remove the basketball courts that even in this rough condition are played on by the kids by the teens and I'm really concerned about doing the bath house and removing teen space where they actually use it near the high school and so maybe we need to find basketball courts somewhere in this plan in Phase One or quick Phase 2 and rethink the part in front of DPW or something Kathy Shane but I'll try to build on Mandy's um both just so everyone knows we ask to have this presentation as early as possible so Amy and everyone could get comments from us um M I'll focus on the bath house because most of what she said I would I totally agree with you know we don't need necessarily another Splash area for little kids we've got a different one down the street and when the original master plan was done Paul there wasn't a Kendrick Park you know and there wasn't what we're doing over at Fort River you know so some things have changed in terms of outdoor space so my question is what if we just do a simple bath house cuz I saw the larger presentation you did for the community and listening it it looks like a country club bath house which is there's nothing wrong with that but with the community room and everything else but a bath house that has the necessary bathrooms the shower the sink but keeping it small and the way mil river right now works you can get into bathrooms from an outside door Mandy you don't have to go all the way in so the people who play tennis and go in the park the bathrooms fortunately start to open a little bit before the pool opens but there are bathrooms but if you need a bathroom in November forget it um you know just you know go home um so but I think thinking of what if we just replace the bath house in its simplest form um having at least one option that looks like that as an alternative that's not as beautiful and I understand community room but we're also building if if if the library goes through suddenly there's a huge amount of community space in the library um and we get back the glassroom where the war the Civil War tablets are in bangs so I'm not sure we need that space either it's they're always nice so I just thinking parrying down Mandy's idea of a tighter budget and still getting us the the bare necessities her first question was the big one that Paul writes do we need two pools um because we're we need to do a bath house if we need this pool so I'm not prepared to speak to that but we were looking at the user numbers for the pool and they're not as high as one might think so Paul I understand it's the summer comes so if we're going to keep the two pools I would go for a smaller vision of what a path house needs to be a good one but and not the one we just saw I don't not sure that's salvageable thank you Alicia going to come back to you but Gilford you have your hand up yes I just want to clarify a couple things there are there is access to the bathrooms from the outside just like at Middle River so that is there um you do have the most paired down facility we could design you we can take out the the meeting room and that's saves a very small amount of money um the bathrooms are actually when the pool is closed you can also use the locker room so if you have a sporting event and somebody on the up on the field needs a place to change you have the outside sporting you have an outside locker room access we made it as simplest as possibly can be um it's kind of phased or it's kind of based on the facility they just built in Buckland if you want to go look at the buckin facility they built that one they designed that one and that one was built it's very this is very lowkey low frill if you want bathrooms that are open 12 months a year you're going to have to put heat in um none of our outdoor facilities have heated bathrooms since they all close down when winter comes so those are just things to think about but we we have kind of much made as much as small as you can the prices right now are just astronomical um the only other thing to do would to be build something like a you would see at a beach facility which are to is totally open to the elements and you go behind a a screen you change the bathroom is behind a screen it may have a ceiling on top of it um you have you have a very simple thing the question really is do you want to have two pools and two bath facilities maybe just have one pool and get rid of the second pool sorry I just had to clarify a couple things and I just wanted to say that thank you thank you councelor Walker please go ahead um thank you Lynn um so I don't disagree with anything that m Joe or Kathy said but I did also want to just add a few things as to what my experience has been utilizing these facilities especially this year um and so I know like everything just recently opened but for example um for the question do we need two pools I would say yes very much so for example this past weekend mil River Pool was at capacity for five hours they were not letting anybody else use the pool and the park was full of kids waiting to use the pool um so I do think you know we had a high number of people using the pool because it was free um because of the heat wave but I do think that it just shows that there's a huge you know there's a huge demand for for youth to have that kind of space in this area and the the people in this town are really using the pools we've already seen it um it's been hard for my kids and I to get space at even the splash pad at grath Park which has also been we have seen a huge increase in the last couple of years of people coming from out of town to be at the splash park I think we went to my kids had two birthday parties there the the last weekend and there was like seven different birthday parties happening at the splash park at the same time it was completely full people were having parties on the side where people don't even usually have parties um and so yes um there is an increased demand for the use of our facilities and I think more space for our residents and more pools um would be definitely used I think we would utilize them and I also think that being said that we would use utilize another splash park um the one that we have is really very much being used um and I do know that we do have the Kendrick park around the corner and I do think it's great but for me as a parent with kids of all different ages I think that is something that I struggle with in this town is that you know when I'm my littles want to go to Kendrick Park my older son is like why are we here there's nothing for me to do um and so war memorial even though it's run down has been a good place kind of like M River because it has the basketball courts it has the pool it's close to the football field and so it becomes a space where like multi-generational families can use um and so I would love to see like I think Mandy Joe said more stuff for teens to stay not that I'm opposed to a splash park or a park or anything like that but we need the basketball court um at war memorial I know my sons both use that basketball court even when we're leaving basketball practice which is at the high school they're go going outside to the basketball court to play more basketball um and so I think it would be a huge loss for the community to have those things um I'm also in agreement with you know just I don't think we need an additional community room in the bath house I think just small and simple and updated would be beneficial um but I am really excited to see that we're starting to plan this and we're moving forward with this um I think it will be really uh useful beneficial space for our community so thank you thank you ala and I'm just going to say ditto to what Alicia said we we don't have families with just only teenagers we have families with teenagers and young kids and you know the parents aren't going to be able to have the kids over at One Park and the other kids over at this park this is a multi-generational place and um it does seem to me that based on the numbers and the ongoing Rising heat that we are all experiencing as early as June this year that giving up two pools at a time when we're dealing with that is not the time to think about giving up two pools thank you Jennifer uh yes so as Kendrick Park doesn't have a splash pad um no right so it would be nice I would also say Kendrick park has brought a lot of people downtown and to the extent to which the war memorial is near the pool is near downtown I think that if that is a greater magnet to PE bring people to the center of town and solicit you know patronize businesses downtown I I think it's a would be a great investment for that reason in addition to everything uh and Cathy and Mandy just said Thank you Amy and David you both have your hands up Amy yeah and I I more just wanted to add especially you guys expressed um wanting to have space for teen use and you know not just young kid playground and I do want to be clear we didn't get into kind of what the 10,000 foot look or the conceptual design was but it doesn't it does include teen space and that was a big conversation especially with the proximity to the high school so I do want to reassure you guys that that is um still part of the conversation and something that the you know everyone involved has recognized as important for this facility not just catering to the kids David yeah thanks Lynn yeah just to build on what Amy said um this is this is still a high high uh elevation look at the space around the pool Amy's Focus was on the pool house itself um we certainly want to keep our you know options open for other opportunities for for instance Sport Court I think some of you have heard about sport courts which are these basically kind of plug-and-play exercise areas where you can stretch you can lift you can do yoga things like that Angela Mills in the town manager's office and I have been working on that for a little while but I also want to point out that we can't do everything say 14 or or a certain age group in that small space this is Community Field and the high school and a Regional High School so hopefully we're going to have a brand new track and field and walking paths around it someday we'll have a new softball field you know in time but there are lots of things to do there we just can't do everything in that small space the other thing I think we need to do and Amy has done some of this Outreach and and we'll have some more time now that we're we're we're say going for a Grant in 25 is we need to hear more from the community it's it's not clear to us when people say there should be more things for teens to do it's not exactly clear what that what that is I'll give you an example I'm being asked by parents to look at something for young people uh of all ages um and that is a a pump track for young people who want to get into uh mountain biking so it's a wonderful thing they have them in many communities throughout throughout the region but anyway a pump track probably isn't isn't compatible there but we need to know from the community we've gotten very little impact from or excuse me input from the schools what is it what are the needs of young people and I'll leave that undefined for this kind of outdoor space What would serve um a a broader range of young people in in that space so I'm just putting it out there we'd like to know and of course Amy and the design team is open to those that kind of input so we'll have a little more time to get that input over the next year year and a half Alicia um thank you Dave I think that's a really important point and I have some like thoughts but I'm not a teenager um and so I think that that this is an this is like a really good opportunity for Community engagement with youth and like just directly asking middle school and high high school students what they would want to see there and I'm hoping like maybe a partnership with the schools to get that information would be helpful because I would love to be able to see the town putting things there that are specifically asked for by the youth and not that parents don't also know but I think youth know what they need a little bit you know they know what they want to see there and I would to hear it from them directly opposed to like myself or other Jennifer um I totally agree with what Al uh councelor Walker just said but I did want to CL we I recall that Pam and I put a link in one of our newsletters that there is a questionnaire or survey out now from the recreation department I can't recall exactly what it was open space yeah I don't know if that was trying to get to what people want in Recreation opportunities we are work we're working on an update to the open space and Recreation plan it's not specific to this area or what young people want in our community but I agree with councelor Walker that we need to hear from young people and not what we as adults do we want a skate park we spent a lot of time and many years talking about do we want a skate par Park in this town ultimately for funding reasons and other reasons I think we moved away from that and now I think young people would say and don't build a skate park because we'll just go to UMass and use all that concrete and skate up there but we need to hear from young people what do they want and then we can design something um that they would like in that space and and in the adjacent spaces Paul Bachman please yeah so just to sum up um thank you for the comments they're valuable comments uh when we did a listening session it was on the night of a council meeting so we recognized that that was poorly timed and you know and we heard from limited number of the public we do need to reach out I appreciate councelor Walker's comment about reaching out to the youth directly um this is raising up on the radar because um we're anticipating that building to be you know every year we cross our fingers and hope that it passes inspection that we can use and open the pool so that's the um urgency of this um we are not going for the park Grant this year because we don't think that we're were prepared to have a a um super strong uh presentation as well so we we can put that off for a year but this will give us a year to do additional Outreach and planning so thank you for your comments there any other comments or questions on this particular item we're going to take a break but not yet because I want to get to Water and Sewer rates which is actually item 8e um and it's because Amy and Guilford are here and then we're done with having to have them here so it's 8 D I said e but it's D D it's D oh yes you are right I'm sorry if something screwed up on my thing 8D Water and Sewer rates um Guilford or Amy do you want to Amy I think you're presenting on this right um Lynn the only reason this is on the agenda again tonight is because in order to uh vote the water and sewer rates the council needs to amend the water and sewer regulations so we're doing a first read of the change to the water and sewer regulations and we're asking the council to merely amend the regulations to increase the water and sewer rates so this is a first reading of those regulation changes we already had the water and sewer rates recommended by finance committee and um presented to the council previously so you've had a memo and and the draft changes to the uh regulations are in your packet thank you um and does the finance committee have any comment on this no we just we did approve um we we were con one concern we had um was that uh water consumption has gone down along with revenues and uh we asked the superintendent about um the status of looking into different metering uh different uh pricing for meters so that we would you know you'd have a sort of a fixed price uh irrespective of how much you actually use and then a variable price based on what you use and um the the response was that um now that the um the uh department has the basically owns the um the water meters they can replace them at at their convenience and when they need it and both UMass and Amis College maybe were under metered uh were using more than than what what they were being charged for so um that's kind of where that went to um and then we also asked whether the increases in water and sewer rates uh were sufficient to cover replacement of the Aging infrastructure and uh the answer that we got was that it it appears that the water system is fine the sewer system May need more replacement than we will have funding for given the rates that we have so that's something that we don't know it's going to be a future issue but it's something to keep our keep our eye on other than that we we approved we thought the rates were reasonable and we approved them and they are lower than than the other jurisdictions near us well and just reminder that you're all invited to tour the wastewater treatment facility tomorrow at 8 uh Wednesday at 11: and then July 10th I think is at 10: so if you just let Angela know which one you're going to go up show up um so we and it's and um if you can bring ear if you have um earplugs because it's loud if you not if you don't have them they'll have some for you there okay are there any other questions on the Water and Sewer regulations and the only reason we have to go into the regulations is because that's the rates are this was the first read Andy yeah just a question as to whether we could amend the regulations next year so that they automatically link to the recently voted rates as approved by lating as water and Commissioners and don't have to go through this two-step process Athena I think Amy can speak to that Amy in terms of how the regulations were written with the water and sewer rates in the appendix Amy okay say do you want to take that one Guilford I can take that one thank you so when we proposed the water and sewer regulations we were told the rates needed to be inside the regulations and that's why they're there um if our attorney wishes to look at it again and comes back and says it can be a separate one we'd be happy to have it separate but when we we're putting it together our attorney attorneys recommended we be they' be inside the regulations so for this year that's how we're going to do it and we'll see if there's any way to look at it in the future this will come back for a second reading on July 15th and we have already checked and made sure that that does not hinder the billing process as of July 1 are there any other comments on this a point of order Lynn you said the billing process on July 1 but the the new rates will be effective after the council votes on the 15th so the new rates will go into effect on the 16th and bills will be sent out as of that dat that won't be retroactive thank you okay are there any other questions okay seeing none we're going to take a 10-minute break we will reconvene I'm sorry a 9 minute break we're going to reconvene at 8:35 at which point we will take up item C thank you Gilford and Amy thank you please turn off your video and your mic e e e e e e e e e e e e e please return to your seats so that we can reconvene and turn your videos back on we're going to reconvene in one minute okay the next topic on our agenda is the letter that has been drafted by the finance committee um to the regional school committee is in your packet and um I'm going to call on Bob hegner to introduce this and then we'll take suggestions Bob so um following up on our conversation earlier um we want we drafted this letter in order to explain our position to the regional um school committee about how we're concerned about not going to 6% but staying within um a increase that's sustainable over time um it's this is a letter that's very difficult to write because we don't want to um come across as usurping the authority of the school committee um we we don't we don't want to be confrontational with them but we need to lay out very clearly what the town can and cannot do fiscally in terms of you know sustainability over time so that's what we've tried to do in this letter um I think we've done a prettyy good job um mostly it was uh Kathy and councelor hanaki who drafted this um so um we we um we we tried to you know kind of thread the needle on you know making it very clear what our position was but not you know sort of saying to the regional school committee we know better than you do so um anyway it it is what it is so um I don't know either uh or if Kathy do you want to add anything okay I'm not seeing any hands uh Council Ryan point of order do you want to begin with the motion ah thank you very much uh to authorize the Town Council president to send a letter recommended by finance committee regarding the emis pelum Regional School District fy2 budget and FY 26 budget process to the ammer pum Regional school committee as presented we'll see if that changes second thank you now George so yes um appreciate it very much of the work that went into this I think it's an excellent letter um and I think it's the right thing to do and I appreciate Bob's comment that it's it's a matter of trying to find the right um line we're not trying to dictate but we have a real concern and I think this conveys that very well and it provides a fair amount of detail and data which I appreciate as well um so thank you especially the two counselors who who work so hard on this I think it's great I had one small sort of suggestion or at least a comment um I'm not sure how is this the second page or is is it numbered it's 1 two 3 four five six seven8 paragraph It's paragraph just above the uh uh the data chart um the sentence reads staff has fluctuated over the past 25 years while student enrollment has decreased over 25% um in fact uh student enrollment has decreased in those 25 years by almost over 40% um the chart shows that it's decreased over the last 14 years um by 27% so I would suggest that we make that 40% rather than 25% um if you're talking about 25 years and it again reinforces um the the fact that that people need to confront which is we've seen an extraordinary decline in enrollment um so unless my math is wrong and unless I'm reading that sounds wrong which is referring to a 25-year period um that number actually should be 40% ly councelor hanii that would be a typo on my part it was supposed to refer to a 15-year period I hit a two instead of a one when I was typing the past it should be the past 15 years yeah we only we only really present data for 15 years so we shouldn't go past what yeah it was meant to say 15 not 25 So it's 15 years and 25% in fact if if you go beyond 15 years to 25 years it is 40% but this chart is 15 years okay uh We've addressed that one is there any other questions or comments councelor GE councelor Ryan did you have anything else uh okay councelor Walker um I was hoping that Mandy Joe and Kathy can remind me what the goal of this letter was like I know we're sending it to the school committee and what do we hope the results will be um because I I do have a following question but I think that that would be helpful helpful for me first okay Mandy Joe KY U as as the finance chair indicated the the goal came from all of the finance committees discussion questions surrounding the request to increase the Regional Schools assessment above Council guidelines um and all of the concerns that the finance committee had um with that request but also with actually recommending such an increase and how the finance committee recommended that increase by the use of also one-time funds and how all of that goes there and to be able to recognize that the financial orders on their own don't transmit any of those concerns they just are just orders that say you have this money um and so we felt a letter transmitting the concerns that summarized are sort of that came out during those discussions about the fact that we're actually funding that additional increase above our own guidelines with onetime money um that isn't there next year ourselves um and so we can't really start our next year's increase on that number because well it's not in the budget really this year um and the recognition that the the situation we see ourselves in and the school committee sees themselves in um needs resolved um and it needs a serious look in terms of the structural issues that came out at the four towns meeting and so it was trying to bring all that in and and say we are here to support you but we also have major concerns and our our funding and our passage of the budget for fy2 um does not alleviate any of those concerns councelor Walker um thank you Andy Joe so sorry I am on the finance committee so I was a part of all of those discussions but I felt like I didn't like I get that these are expressing our concerns which I was in favor of sending communication to the regional school committee because I believe it's extremely important especially under these circumstances for us to have you know ongoing communication and dialogue about what is going to happen for the future how we can best support them um within bounds um but I'm not sure that I got the message I thought I was going to get when I read this um like it didn't feel as though we were being supportive or as though we were asking for something specific I feel like it's just saying we are doing this now and we're not going to do it again and you better figure it out kind of thing um partially like this exact section that I think George was just referencing um in regards to expenditures on uh special education and how that relates to student enrollment I wasn't even sure why that that was necessary be included want me to respond um either Bandy Joe or yeah go ahead so either one it was included because during those conversations um at least one Finance Committee Member said it was important to include that information in such a letter um because it was part of our concerns about the unsustainability of the budget okay I just have concerns about this section because I don't see how it relates to what our goal was in sending this letter I don't have I don't share the same concerns regarding our special education budget necessarily um just having three children who are in special education programs within the schools I do understand the amount of Staffing and services that go along with that and I just feel like it was an unnecessary inclusion here and I just think we could have been a little bit more concise into the point with the communication um are you do you want to make a motion or do you want to well I'm hoping to get because you know I know Mandy Joe just said that that came from one counselor's concern and so I'm trying to gauge like our other counselors also very concerned about this and want to include it because this is not exactly where my concern was going or coming from in terms of the position we're in with the budget I think my concern was a little bit more structural in terms of the fact that we're even in this position in the first place that there should have been some type of system or mechanism in place for us to prevent this from happening and so what are we doing moving forward what plan do we have um I we have a new superintendent coming on board but I still think that the regional school committee can be you know starting to craft an outline of a plan and I think that I was hoping that this document would convey that to them that it is CR critical that they have a plan and I just think that this is not what this says councelor kcki I was not the counselor on the finance committee that initially requested this being there but I am in total support of it because I do actually think and I will say it out loud that um the increase in sped Staffing while this number of students enrolled with disabilities has remained essentially unchanged is part of the structural problem that needs discussed um I'd like to make a few observations um first of all I'm delighted with the last paragraph it states our strong support of the schools and our willingness to work with people some of you may be aware that the school committee has voted to form their own committee to look at this and I hope that that committee and this will Jive in a way that is very constructive and moves forward over the years as long as I can remember being on the council and previously on the fin committee for 5 years we have looked at this issue and said it's going in the wrong direction and we need to start talking much earlier in the year than at the December 4 towns meeting and what this letter does is actually call for that and it asks for us to share this with the other three Partners in our town so the fact that we bring this back to the budget message from the manager the fact that we bring it back with a date knowing that the new superintendent is coming board on July 1 this letter I'm hoping is seen as a reaching out and saying let's work together not we're working against you and so I want to thank the people for putting this together there may be things I would change about the letter but frankly I don't feel the need need to get into that um so um I just really wanted to say that to me this is not a letter this is a letter that's been long in coming this is a letter that we've needed for probably the last three or four years and it's we've let it get to a crisis point we're seeing what's happening in Northampton it's very unpleasant and uh what I would like and what I hope for amorist is that we can all sit down and work this out together for the benefit of all of our children um thank you George so that's a little bit back to my concern earlier that by voting the 6% we create at least in some people's minds the the sense perhaps I would call it the illusion that there's all this money out there and all they have to do is ask for it and we can find a way to to hand it over I would say that the most important paragraph in this letter for me at least is paragraph number five um which I feel bear with me for a moment I'm going to read um for the audience if no one else watching and listening at the recent BGC meeting BCG meeting ammer staff presented a budget projections based on a few scenarios these projections show that Amis anticipated revenues will be pressed to sustain a modest 2.5% year-over-year year increase in the four functional area budgets projecting out 4% growth to each major functional area results in deficits that even marginal improvements in Revenue projections will not be able to resolve as a deficit started over 1.5 million in FY 26 point that I made earlier um and will rise to 5.8 million in fiscal year 29 so I think it's simply laying out the financial reality and um helping them see that um the fact that we've given this 2% increase this year um is not something that's sustainable councelor Lord thank you um I'm just having a feeling around this letter um I appreciate the details um but last meeting it seemed like there were some counselors that distrust our elected officials the school committee and I'm I whereas there's I'm just trying to understand that a little so to me if our President says we should have been talking about this three or four years ago um and it's been coming and we've seen it I feel like this letter feels a little punitive to me um and I would I would love a letter that said let's set a date really soon so we can sit together and dialogue about the things that are written in the letter I don't know I just wanted to voice that um that I really support our school committee I want to fund our schools I wish it wasn't such a desperate situation all around the country for our public education and here in ammer and yeah thank you Pat yeah a minor uh as a former educator I have to step in to counselor and stand with counselor Walker about special education students uh the special education Staffing has increased but the number of students special education has decre has dropped 3% 3% is very small and the services that a student needs they're not um they're not consistent per student so a student with disabilities might require a great deal of teacher um and Par professional support um throughout the day where another special needs students would need less so I don't think this is a place um I'm not I think it needs to be there but I think that councelor haniki has to realize that it's not simply the numbers when you're dealing with special education students and staff um and I it really um it's really important to understand that and to really open yourself to more than just the numbers in this particular particular situation and I support this letter so I'm not opposing it going out but I am concerned when I hear that kind of response um based only on number and I'm repeating myself thank you councilor Walker um thank you so I think I really like the way that councelor Lord stated some of her concerns and I think that I would also like to you know more formally use this as an opportunity to to be in continued conversation with the regional school committee and I think like councelor Lord said setting a time to talk with them where there can be like an open-ended back and forth dialogue where these questions can be answered um I also would personally prefer the discussion about special special education at that time um I do think it's like an important conversation to have I just don't see why this is the main like why this is one of the main points in this communication um and so I would prefer to take that entire section out um I think the other sections get to the point just fine and I think we should again open this up for continued dialogue and that maybe we can have a meeting together and that can be one of the talking points on the agenda to go over whatever concerns we have in that section and to get some live responses but I I would prefer to move forward in that way uh coun Rob um Bob hegner um councelor Lord and councelor Walker if you look at the last the second to last paragraph We ask that we we we first step would be for the regional school committee to engage in discussions among all four towns to understand our ability to support education in our municipalities in the region is that not is that does that get to what you want or is that not getting to what you want in terms of a of a discussion I mean I'm happy to to to reword this sentence in in a way to make it more uh more inviting um if that's what you are asking while people think about that I'm going to go on to counselor hanii I was going to point out the same thing um councelor hegner just did about we're actually asking the district to convene a discussion by August one on these structural issues um which I think I've been hearing councelor Walker and Lord say it should ask for and so I it's in there unless it's not in there the way they want it to be um thank you councelor d'angelus on the sped issues I I understand that each student is different um I think our town has had a hesitancy to even bring up the issue of um the cost of special education in our Town um which is why I believe it's important to be in here we've struggled with as a council at least I have in the past 5 years getting more information about those costs and why they are so high um and this yes statistics are just statistics right but I think it goes to wanting that information as to why the student enrollments are basically flat um so why has Staffing gone up that much is it because they are needing than in past years or is it some other reason and we haven't when we ask those questions what we get a lot is well the percentage has just gone up we don't we don't get that dig in into real reasons why we just get that overall 10,000 view of but we have more sped students in percentage than other districts and I think the the the importance of this chart is trying to dig into just picking one area right there are plenty of other areas regular instructions down 18% but the student enrollment is down 27% that's also a mismatch in a sense um you know there's a lot of mismatches in here um and trying to keep a letter succinct but also point out some things that we really do want to dig in want the school district to dig into more because that's where we have concerns say that doesn't mean that's where the structural issues need to fixed right that that that's not what I'm trying to say at all but we can't we can't shy away from those tough conversations in areas where I feel in my five years on the council we have shied away from councelor um so I know since the conversation has mean excuse me um I noticed the conversation has been more about the town and the school district but I did see that we copied the other towns on this letter and so I'm wondering what is what are we looking to influence with regard to the other towns or put in a different way if there was a letter from any of the other towns the way we're writing this how would the ammer Town Council take that letter into consideration going forward um counselor I'm going to actually respond to that if somebody from another town contacted us and said we are concerned we would like to talk about the budgets for the regional schools and its affordability then I think we would be obliged to meet with them and have that conversation and that's what I'm hoping this is seen as as an invitation for everybody to talk I don't I I wouldn't be offended at all if the town sent us something that said we'd like to talk um I think that we have put off that talk too long um I do want to go back to one item and that is that I distinctly remember uh former superintendent Mike Morris explaining to us a significant change that was made in special education in in amest a couple years ago and it was an attempt to have more students with greater needs served within the district versus paying tuition out and while I don't know if that explains this or not I just want to say that as a finance Committee Member I did hear that very loud and clear when we were in the process both of the budget and that later on when we were dealing with the design for the new element Elementary School uh councelor Ryan so one of the peculiarities of our system is that one elected body basically is keepers of the purse and another elected body is responsible for education and so it easily can become a scenario in which we get to play the bad guy and it's easy to point the finger at us and call us anti- education or anti teer whatever because we have to deal with a balanced budget and we have to look at the economic in fiscal realities imagine a system in which the the school committee presented their budget directly to the voters and the voters then voted on it um they could then make their case and the voters would decide um we don't have that system I think this is something maybe like what New York has but Andy knows better than I but anyway we don't have that system what we have is a system in which we say here are the economic realities here are the economic limits you must work within these constraints uh we don't just make them up arbitrary they're based on enormous amount of work and and care I think the greatest disservice we will we can do to our students and to our teachers and to our pair of professionals is not to be honest with them about the economic realities and that's what we're trying to do and we are certainly inviting a dialogue and I hope that they will take that opportunity um and and enter into that dialogue but here we're just trying to lay out some of the economic realities which I think is actually our responsibility and that doesn't make us anti educator doesn't make us anti- student um doesn't make us Andy teacher uh Andy Steinberg yeah um as far as counselor Walker's uh observation at the beginning and I appreciate her um statement it I I'm hoping and I read the read that several times as I was going through it because I'm well aware of the um problems with funding special education and the high costs the unknown costs and the significant costs um it it's a but it is a significant portion of the budget and it's becoming an increasing portion of the budget sort of on a continuous basis and I guess the what was um I wanted to do was make the observation but not suggest in action and uh because I think that the decision is to what to do to address what counselor Brian just said that we don't have an infinite supply of money to continue to fund in a greater and greater amount each year um and the but the decision on how to approach that um problem is really the school committee's responsibility our responsibility is what this letter is intended to do which is to just sort of make a statement very clearly and an explanation very clearly that there is a limit and that the limit um comes from the fact that there are a lot of pressures on Municipal budget and uh there's cap on the amount that we have to spend additional each year and um that cap is essentially the 2 and a half% that um comes from the initiative that was passed by voters way back in 1980 but is still living us and haunting us on a daily basis or annual basis I should say the other thing that I wanted to share with you is um I did do some um research on the 20year decrease in enrollment and look to compare it and I was thinking about it because we've been hearing a lot about Northampton and um it's uh which is covered in the paper I just wanted to share with you that the outcome of my research which was based solely on statistics from um uh desie the department of Elementary and secondary education is that during that last 20year period as has been observed the regional budget uh the regional enrollment has decreased by 41% the amist elementary enrollment has decreased by 33% but when we look across the river um that their enrollment has decreased in the K12 District combines the two statistically you can't break it apart by um the way that we do but it was 16% and um we know the kinds of anxiety that is going on in Northampton and I just wanted to report that because I think as we sit here and saying why are we agonizing over it so much that we need to um also remind ourselves that U there are other factors and um think we all that were reading in North about what's going on in Northampton you know their decline in enrollment is uh you know half of ours or even a little less than half so just wanted to add that councelor hanii um I just wanted to respond to councelor ET comments the the other reason to send this and and copy the other towns is because of that second to last paragraph where we say we ask the district to convene a discussion by August one that discussion is meant not to be just with our town but with all the towns so those towns I think need to see that request so that they know we've made that request Kathy in addition to that uh counselor at what our hope is we be be sending it to their select board and their Finance committees so there every single one of the four towns is facing a huge stretch to pay for their schools um when I first ran one of the towns was approaching the total limit um of their assessed value literally going to top out where they couldn't increase anymore with the two they were at 2 and a half% of the total Town property values and at that point you can't go up so so we're under a lot of stretch stress in our regional budget I do think um the concerns that uh Alicia has raised I mean I I want to go back and read it for tone um because I think the intention is to get together and try to figure out with the school committee leading what can be done um and how it can be done but I would really like us to do an a very different kind of letter because if I look at these numbers and Andy looked over to Northampton if I look at the Chinese emerging school they don't take severely disabled and their percent with disabilities around 10% so the students we're losing is is not the special needs population we're losing about 200 others um that are they're going out of our system and the dynamic that's been really crippling is that we're cutting down on the choice of languages the the music program the other kinds of programs so parents are some parents are pulling their kids out of our system not because they don't want to have be in our public schools and so trying to figure out how to combat that and we set up the com an's program in our elementary school to say we can be have a unique attractive program and it's been extraordinarily successful in doing that people are really wanting to do that and we want to make sure a regional system if the kids come up being dual language that they still have a language program that they can go to so I think the intent is strong support of our educational system and trying to figure out what we can do together so I would like us to work on a separate letter to our Representatives with other towns saying we are being crippled by a drain on public education and this is coming from the state um and it's what I've heard is some of the Boston Schools are experienced the same thing it's not just our area around Charter um so I wanted to gather a few of them because I think we desperately need that as a cuz the dynamic is is a really uh a crippling one and this is happening to South Hadley I was looking at where the drain is coming from South Hadley and from different towns around our area so we happen to have one particular charter school that's like a private school that the Performing Art School is very different they get a very diverse mix of kids and take kids that don't fit as well in a more traditional system and you can see it in their statistics so I think we need to take a different kind of action that brings Unity where we are fighting for our change if it can't come next year fine but we need to really raise our voices strongly on this councelor walker um thank you Kathy for that because I feel also very strongly about that and that may be where all of what I'm about to share is heading but I I do agree with George in terms of we're trying to communicate and be honest about what our fiscal realities are and I I do feel like in the first like page or so it feels like that's what we're doing like we're being very clear about what position we're in fiscally and our ability to contribute there are a couple of sentences that I feel don't do that um but like I said in the first page or so I feel like that's where we're headed and then there are a few and maybe it's just ing that makes me feel uncomfortable with it but we urge the region to begin the budget process assuming amers and other towns are not going to be able to provide I feel like that sentence is strange because we're giving them the picture of our fiscal realities I don't think we need to now demand them that when they're starting their NE next budget process they assume we are not going to give anything else and the other towns and so that also feels a little bit weird because we're speaking for the other towns so just that one sentence but then I start again to get uncomfortable with the portion about uh the special education because that's when we start to talk about their budget as opposed to our budget and our fiscal realities um and we start to talk about the way in which they're using and spending their money which I just again feel like is unnecessary if our goal is to to not be instructing them to do stuff um which is also the reason why I might have a an issue with the wording about a first step is for the regional school committee to engage in discussion among all four towns again it sounds like we're just telling them what to do as opposed to we invite you to be in discussion with us um I don't see an issue sending this to all four towns I would of course want them to be in this discussion with all four towns I would hope that as elected officials that that's what they would do I I don't think we need to instruct them to do that but I think we can invite them to be in conversation with us um and I think that that's what I would like for us to do and again I think just the wording of we want them we want to engage in discussion because we want them to understand our ability to support them um and the other Town's abilities to do so um but I think the issue is bigger than that because I don't think it's that the school committee assumes that we have endless dollars and they can continue to come back and ask us for more and more money I think the reality of the situation and a lot of this is what Cathy alluded to is that our schools need more funding our youth need more resources and especially still coming out of covid like the our schools are still in crisis I'm not sure if we're realizing the realities of what it's looking like day-to-day inside of our schools but they're not asking us for this money for fun this is a real issue and it's affecting the youth in our town we need the the support positions we need the programming our kids need these things and maybe the reality is that the town doesn't have the money and that's maybe the reality we we're in but we need to be strategically thinking about how we can support the youth in our who genuinely need these things regardless of whether or not we have the money and so what can we do then and so I again I just feel like maybe it's the tone and I don't feel like the letter is giving the message that I had hoped I'm not I'm I'm totally in favor of sending a letter I like the first page I think it's strong I I have some wording changes I would like I don't know if that's too much to do right now in terms of amendments but I I think that we're not sending the message at least I intended to send to the school committee and I think it's a bit I just don't like the tone honestly well in order to change something we're going to need suggested changes and they're going to have to come in the form of you know I don't i' hate to go through an amendment process but nevertheless suggested changes but we do and we are not meeting again until the 15th and so I don't see us delaying the letter until then so Jennifer okay what one of part of I was going to say is to suggest that is there a way for two a couple of counselors to work no nope we have to do that breaks open meeting law okay well wasn't the letter written out did two councilors write this they wrote it one person drafted it and more per people at it in an open meeting in an open meeting okay I was tasked with drafting it I volunteered to draft it and then I consulted Kathy before I brought it to the council because I had questions and I wanted to make sure before it was put public in a public packet even in draft form that it had a tone and the information that was so I consulted Kathy she gave me some suggestions I was fully in charge of all the edits it went to a committee at that point the committee discussed it they had some changes it came back with a vote from that committee to give me the full authority to take those suggestions make the changes and bring the letter to the council so it was only ever under my authority to not break open meeting law and with a vote of the committee to be able to do that and forward it to the council for tonight's discussion thank you and I just this is for another conversation but I can't can't let Andy's um very important um statistic go unresponded to which is in Northampton their enrollment has decreased by 16% and in Amis between 33 and 41% that is something we need to look at I mean that is substantial um in 2018 the regional school committee had an enrollment committee with a declining enrollment working group and we may want to or the I don't know if it be the council or the school committee but somebody may want to revisit that because part of what they pointed to in that report was decline the decline in families that live in amorist and that is very much evident in this in this Stark difference in our large decline in enrollment and certainly when we compare it to a town almost next St so councelor hanii I wonder respond to councelor shon's Shane's um comments on charter schools first of all you almost only and the council as a whole almost only ever me mentions the Chinese charter school never mentions the other charter schools that our students go to I'm not sure why but it's very frustrating that particularly when we're talking about a region that sends very few in the grades seven to 12 to pvci but send very many to pvpa that we don't ever mention really pvpa um but I W to it so it's not just the Chinese school but the claims that the Chinese School does not accept students with disabilities are false the Chinese school is under obligation of state law to when they have applications as with any charter school when they have applications exceeding the number of spots available to a lottery and they admit the names they draw from that Lottery anyone can submit to the lottery and the Chinese school or any other charter school if a name is drawn from the lottery cannot say no to that person no matter the level of their disability or speaking ability in any language although I believe the Chinese schools Charter does allow um potential to for um non- English first language students but that's by state law state but to the letter but it goes to the letter because what people are saying at this council is that it's the charter schools that are problems but they only mention one charter school and then they give false information as to what that Charter School can do and can't do and that's a problem we need to not be trading in false information about what Charter Schools can and can't do Andy yeah we seem to be circling around on different subjects but I wanted to just come back to something that was been raised before and that is the U sort of recognition that this is a fourtown region and that one of the things that we want to do and I think is um there are um people um on um boards and finance committees in the other towns who are aware of what we're write doing with the letter and are looking forward to receiving a copy and um want to try and um link what their Communications are to what our Communications are and are looking for for leadership but um we need to ultimately recognize that we do have a fourtown region and in the end we're going to have to have a budget that is agreed to by the four towns based upon what they can afford and is going to um start with um as it always does a um for towns meeting where we talk about what resources we have available and what the schools needs are and it's important that we get the community unication across that that can't wait that it's really important that we begin that discussion for the next um fiscal year as soon as possible I would like to start at the summer as a matter of fact I wouldn't even wait until the fall because I don't think that we that there's any information that we don't now know and and um the reality is that you know as much as we're concerned about the fact that we have very limited commercial um and uh industrial base in that we're entirely almost entirely residential just remember what our three partner communities are like in the region um they're all residential um and uh so you know their problem is as great or greater than ours and uh so we do I I would like to have the letter be done tonight be out tonight get to the other towns and get to the school committee and begin this discussion because we need to communicate to the school committee exactly what the the draft has been put together to do that there's a limit on resources and the limit on resources U is that the annual growth is not matching what the annual growth is in school budgets that this is a continuous problem it is not a new problem and we want to draw their attention to it the other comment that I want to make is that I feel uh that there is um something that we do need to be compassionate to what's going on with the current school committee um because there's a tremendous number of new members and uh it was sort of an unfortunate set of circumstances that caused us to lose the superintendent and then uh lose a number of school committee members across the region because of what happened and uh as a consequence they're just beginning to catch up in their understanding of what the reality is on budgets and how budgets work and I think that this letter as it's drafted goes a long way to sort of increasing that understanding and putting some real numbers behind it so I really hope that we come out with a strong letter tonight and just get this done Pat uh yes two two things one well three things I support this letter and I want to say that in the next to the last paragraph it says given these concerns and realities we hope and request so I feel like it is not saying you better do what I want you to do I think that it is there is a softness there that's real we hope the other thing I want to address is decline in families rents are so high in our town and that u a woman I taught with who is a single mom divorced has two children cannot afford to stay in ammer and you're notd in your head and that's excellent because it's real but the very um ways that we rected exclusionary zoning keeps young families being able to move here to afford to live here so there are several elements that are uh most of them Financial that are affecting our and until those of you who go yes yes yes actually look at zoning and den not change anything I need to respond can I I I really we need to get back to the letter okay one response Jennifer go ahead but this has gone Way Beyond what the letter is no it has everything to do with how much housing are how much housing is and because we have so many investors who are outbidding families and are charging very high rents by the bedroom so I I would I don't know what we we're disagreeing about change zoning laws F okay here's my bottom line I if you want major changes like exclusions in this letter you have to make a motion if you want to suggest to me some softening here and there after the meeting and the council gives me the authority to do that I will look at those and make some decisions but otherwise there is a motion on the table it's been made and it's been seconded question's been called and I seconded okay uh we are going to vote right we have to vote on the question yes calling calling the question right okay and we're going to begin with councelor Ryan yes this is the vote to call the question uh Kathy Shane yes this call the question this is call the question yes Jennifer toab Yes councelor Walker yes Patti Angels hi Anna Devin goth AB I'm sorry uh councelor e yes Lynn grimer and I councelor hanii hi Bob hegner yes uh councelor Lord I