okay okay I'd like to call them uh Town services and Outreach committee meeting of the ammer Town Council to order at 10: a.m. on March 28 2024 and uh we have a quorum present uh four or five members of the committee are currently here um along with our superintendent in public works who's going to be um assisting us with all of the agenda items and uh the cler of the council so with that said um I think that uh just want to note that the meeting is being conducted by a remote means members of the public U have access to the meeting via zoom and by telephone uh there's no in-person attendance of this meeting because it is entirely virtual but we've made uh efforts to make sure that the public is able to participate and um we will be uh reaching out to the public a minute uh to um start with public comment as the first item of the day um after we finish convening the meeting I do need to remind everybody on the committee and in the um who are attending the meeting that this meeting is being recorded for both uh um Visual and audio purposes so uh Please be aware of that notice and with that let me make sure that all of our committee members can hear and be heard and I'll check also with um our um staff U Bob hegner present and uh councelor Ryan present and uh Jennifer present I'm here we're waiting to see if H will be H Lord is the additional member of the committee um Paul you're you're able to participate and we can you hear us yes I can and Guilford Guilford boring yes I can hear you okay so um with that uh what we were going to do um I'm hoping everybody has seen the posting uh will decide on the agenda after public comment if you are um interested in public comment I know that they um hands up already from uh Le five people six so I'm going to um begin with public comment um for the person on the telephone um I think it is U if you dial Star nine that raises your hand and then we know that you would like to participate in public comment so um public comment can be on any matter that is um relevant to the work of this um committee and uh the um ask that you try and confine your comments to three minutes um and with that said um let um Andy um councelor Lura just joined if we could just confirm that she can hear and be heard before we begin public comment please okay thank you for pointing that out uh Council Lord can you hear us just unmute for hear you can you hear me yes we can thank you thank you so all all members of the committee are now present and um I think that our first uh person who um as to be recognized is uh Becca wkins is that Watkins so um hi would you uh just um introduce yourself and uh you don't have to give your exact address but if you can at least uh let us know if you're an amorist resident and approximately where you live um that would be sufficient but uh please do that and then please offer your comment uh yes hi um I live on Heatherstone Road in Echo Hill um I am doing this comment on behalf of myself and my children I actually offered for them to stay home today to participate in this um because they actually feel pretty strongly but they were too nervous too um one I I appreciate that as some time and attention is getting put into repaving our street and putting in some traffic calming measures um but I am on this call today to ask if you would consider um partaking in legislation that would allow you to reduce the speed limit to 25 miles per hour um it's under sections 193 and 194 of chapter 218 of the acts of 2016 uh which would allow you to reduce the speed limit from 30 to 25 without partaking in any traffic studies um my kids have often said as we are biking or walking on the street as cars are going by that they don't understand why the town hasn't do any done anything to make them safer as we go around our neighborhood um and I understand that it often takes a traffic study to reduce the speed limit but it seems like this might be a good option to uh avoid a study um I do understand that this has been brought up for years and people in our very own neighborhood are part of the speeding problem but right now they legally can go 30 to 35 miles per hour um Heatherstone feels like a small neighborhood road to me so it just it seems like a no-brainer to reduce the speed limit um because right now a lot of kids aren't even allowed to be on Heatherstone on their own um because of the speed limit I am so nervous that once the streets get repaved that people will go even faster because right now all of our beautiful potholes are the only thing that that slows anyone down um so while I appreciate they are getting redone I am also very nervous for the safety of my kids so I'm just asking that you consider um opting into this legislation that we have in Massachusetts so that we can reduce the speed limit and keep our kids safer okay thank you very much appreciate appreciate your comment um the next person has name of just listed is Howard so uh please uh let us uh know who you are and approximately approximate address if you um so that we can place here you don't have to give an exact address hi my name is Howard Hannah I'm a resident here in Echo Hill Neighborhood right next to I live right next to the median on Heatherstone Road and um like the previous speaker I also have um children who uh walk up and down the road and we have had we have made a humble requests before for the safy of our pedestrians and cyclists that uh this neighborhood be provided with uh reduced um speed limit and uh measures for to enforce uh traffic calming such as keeping the median in place uh we've reached out to um the town before uh multiple times um with the request to uh uh keep the median strip in place as we know that to Be an Effective means of slowing traffic I live right at the end of the median strip so I watch uh daily as traffic as cars driving slow down as they're entering that median strip and are going slow as they exit that median um uh in past um emails to uh the town about this the about reg keeping the median strip to slow traffic the response has been uh that the town believes traffic slows in that in the median stretch because of the condition of the road with all those potholes however I've responded before that the US do Federal Highway Administration supports the use of medians to slow traffic uh the Federal Highway Administration uh uses middle median slow traffic Parts traffic provides safety pedest for pedestrians and provides decoration um it provides safety and value to our neighborhood likewise the mass do speed management guidelines proposed using medians to physically slow traffic by narrowing roadways um the median decorative gardening acts as a visual cue to drivers that the roadway changes from a pass through like pelum road to a neighborhood like uh Heatherstone Road uh per usot Federal Highway engineering standards roadways are used to uh to slow traffic um um and reduced pedestrian Fatality and serious injury uh in addition um the current sidewalk plan only covers half the length of the road um as opposed to the full length of the road uh it does not attend to speed control and it was not a part of a any original request regarding repaving the road only repaving was requested regardless Heatherstone has ample width in the roadway alone to provide space for pedestrians and cyclists without the need of a half-length sidewalk furthermore it's unclear why three roundabouts would be used as a pilot as a pilot for speed control when we've asked repeatedly for Speed reduction and uh to keep the the one speed control that we have which is that median so from a Layman's perspective um I just seem to have several questions about this uh we just need the road repaved we need the speed reduced and we'd like to keep the median in place because we know that to Be an Effective speed control thank you for your time I hope you reconsider good thank you um the next person is Patricia app B and again same request please let us know approximately where you live and uh introduce yourself and uh proceed with your comment thank you can you hear me all right yes we can okay my name is Patricia applebomb I live on aubinwood road um not near the intersection with Heatherstone I am speaking here for myself only and I recognize my neighbors concerns about traffic speed um I am primarily concerned about the proposed roundabouts the um memo that we're considering today indicates that many roundabouts would typically have a diameter of 50 to 90 ft 50 ft might possibly fit within the existing intersections but anything larger would not would require expansion the roundabouts will also need to accommodate sidewalks this plan as far as I can see therefore adds a good deal of Paving to the existing landscape Echo Hill was designed to retain as much as possible of the natural landscape and that feature is what some of us like best about living here moreover more Paving is yet another contribution to climate change granted a relatively small one but at this point everything counts so I object to expanding the area of Paving in this way the design also seems odd what's proposed is three roundabouts within a relatively short stretch and then a long and open stretch of road with no obstructions I'm told that nothing new will be built on that long stretch until it's repaved but the current design does not look like effective speed control now some questions first and most important what will be the effects of installing roundabouts with respect to land takings encroachment on individual properties and required infrastructure such as foundations and retaining walls especially at the intersection with ob andwood and further along Heatherstone Road where the land slopes on both sides of Heatherstone second question are the roundabouts intended to be permanent the memo does refer to permanent changes but one of the attached documents describe temporary popup roundabouts some of my neighbors are under the impression that the roundabouts will be removed if the pilot project shows they're not effective please clarify this third why a roundabout why not speed bumps we have been told many times that speed bumps are very expensive to install but I would guess that a roundabout is even more expensive and finally what is the rational for installing three roundabouts within a short distance would one roundabout work just as as well um finally as pilot projects how will they be evaluated what will happen if the roundabouts are not found to be effective thank you thank you very much appreciate your comments um the next person I guess is Myra Ross uh and uh I don't know if you're speaking on you hear me yes uh you speaking on behalf of daac or you're S no okay um I'm speaking on behalf of myself because the topic that I'm going to discuss hasn't yet been discussed by daac of which I'm the chair for those who don't know daac is disability um oh my God disability access advisory disability access advisory committee okay uh um we will meet next in April and we will discuss this but I've become aware that you are doing some work on route nine uh by the intersection with Southeast Street um pertaining to sidewalk installation and pertaining to changing um you know using th that that project to create bicycle and sidewalk and bus stops um and I to tell you the truth think this is a fabulous idea we need sidewalks uh I guess they don't want them in Echo Hill but we need them in many places in town to keep pedestrians safe especially now that there are so many cyclists and E cyclists as a blind person I can tell you that cyclists are often very problematic me quite frequently they don't follow the rules of the road people on ebikes particularly um are FR you know frankly quite frightening to a lot of blind people because they are on sidewalks and they go incredibly fast so there have been standards that have been developed I don't know specifically what they are but I know that there are people who are working very hard to keep pedestrians safe to keep cyclists safe and to make sure that the traffic doesn't go fast but that it can actually get through so there are all kinds of questions about building intersections where do you put the pedestrian Pathways where do you put the cycle Pathways where do you put the bus stops um and and how does all that integrate so that pedestrians particularly people with visual impairments or frankly people who are quite elderly and don't walk very quickly or for other reasons don't walk very quickly can be safe I don't know the answer but I know that it's a quite complex question and just going in there and you know saying oh this will be a bike lane oh yeah well you know people will share the sidewalk oh well we'll have people go out into the middle of the street to get onto the bus um which is done in a lot of places is not the way to do it it has to be thought about very carefully and people who know about how to work these things out so that everybody's safe need to be consulted by the town um that's not the current practice of the town when they build things like this so I I would I would urge people to talk to people um we're going to talk to people on mass office of disability and I'm sure there are other people that have made a life study of trying to make sure that people are safe and they walk around um so that's what I would really like you to do I don't know the specifics I don't know how far along you are um and the other thing um is that route n this we have discussed at the daac the route n project that was done on um oh excuse me on um uh Northampton road is um has some problems with the way that the curb Cuts were put in and they are not um conforming all the time to the way that it should be done to make sure that people can go go off the sidewalks um safely those um Corners with the truncated domes need to be perpendicular they need to not angle off at the corners so I think it's very important that this next one be done right I think the town will be hearing a little more about the other one anyway I'm so I'm sorry I'm a little distracted by this telephone call that I can't get rid of um but uh it's very important for the town do it right and I'm thrilled that you are working on sidewalks and I hope that you put a lot more money into more sidewalks because that's the safest way for people to walk around thanks okay thank you Mara uh next person I think is named Pippa c u so again request that you uh give us at least an approximate idea of where you live you don't have to give an exact address and please offer you com out can [Music] you can you Papa can you hear me can you can you hear me ah yes thank you sorry about that I'm so sorry um so my name is Pippa Comfort I have been a resident on Heatherstone Road in Echo Hill for 16 years and raised my um children here and I have been concerned about safety on the street um for my 16 years here um I am in full support of a speed limit reduction to 25 I am also in support of the proposed plan that Mr bamman shared with our neighborhood that includes repaving sidewalks and these three temporary or Pilot roundabouts I trust that the professionals have done their homework and that the roundabouts would fit in the space while the median is a beautiful um addition to our neighborhood when I am walking that strip of the road I have to step up into the woods to avoid um the risk of being hit by passing cars which I have to do at several points along Heatherstone Road um Lally stepping into people's yards or into the bushes as as cars pass um it feels very unsafe to me the section that has not been addressed is is up where I live where Heatherstone meets Stony Hill it is a throughway for people traveling to places like Hampshire Athletic Club and um that section is also um perilous I live on a blind curve and I am I'm nervous coming out out of my driveway which I know many people have faced that situation but if there are measures that we can take to address that end of Heatherstone as well I realize that this project is kind of a once- in a-lifetime and I don't want to see it done halfway at the same time I do not want to see debate holding up something being done we have been working on this as a neighborhood for years and years and years and have approached the town many times in writing and on the phone and through email we have um taken measures into our own hands by devising signs our children made signs years ago please slow down this is a topic that has been um on the table for a very long time and I'm thrilled to see the proposal that's on the table and I am in full support of it and again I trust the professionals have done their homework about what type of temporary roundabout will fit or or or not um and I thank you so much for your time and considering this well thank you very much for your comment for joining our meeting um so I think the next is uh Elizabeth lingo same request let us know approximately where you live don't have to be exact address and please offer your comment thank you so much for offering the space for comments um I live on Heatherstone Road right in the middle and I um I've I've lived here for 11 years and uh have also raised my children who are now in high school and um sophomore and college so their entire time of being free children with bikes and walking to friend's house which was the um kind of the goal of moving to this neighborhood has been treacherous and like I have been working literally for the last uh 10 years with the town to advance the key goal of pedestrian safety for children for um the many seniors who still live here who are walking around in Walkers who are trying to navigate now getting out of their and also teens who are trying to get out of their driveways on netherstone um and I just want to say first of all I love this plan because it's about pedestrian safety that is the main goal um I have I just want to honor I walked the streets of Heatherstone with Eve Vogal and just want to honor her incredible work that she did around the transportation and pedestrian safety um and working with Guilford over the years everyone has been shocked that Heatherstone does not have sidewalks it was actually created as a neighborhood it was one of the first neighborhoods before the idea of like that sidewalks had to be included um and that is why we don't have sidewalks every other neighborhood that has been developed has sidewalks and yet it's designed where people are going you know 45 miles an hour literally we've clocked it on um working with the police to clock people on Heatherstone people go fast um so the sidewalks idea has long long and is a best practice around pedestrian safety so I'm delighted that it's actually getting implemented um of course um as several people have echoed the we all want sidewalks to go all along Heatherstone so that it there's a safe way for our children to walk to Fort River regardless of where you live on Heatherstone if where pipa lives on that far side and on the corner there are multiple families now who have moved in with small children there is no way for them to go to Fort River Walk to their school without being on Heatherstone and it's true with the potholes with people you know speeding there's literally kids have to jump out of the way to get avoid being splashed avoid getting hit people are on their cell phones now so I just want to honor that stretch of Heatherstone needs some attention that corner of where Au andwood Stony Hill and Heatherstone come together is another ripe spot we all feel for having another um another little mini roundabout um if not one somewhere along the long stretch of Heatherstone to try to slow traffic um I've been in conversation with Eve and with um Guilford about this for a long time and we've talked about oper you know medians are fine I know my C my fellow neighbor loves the median for you know speed reduction but speed reduction is not the only goal here it's pedestrian safety and I just want to emphasize that there's no safe pedestrian way with that median as Pippa noted you're jumping off um even now as in you know as a f with an adults and my dogs I mean we have to jump into people's yards and into the bushes when cars are coming through there because there's nowhere to walk it's more narrow than anywhere else in netherstone um I also just want to note in all the conversations it's a multi-prong solution so absolutely what Becca Watkins pointed out about the opportunity to reduce the speed to 25 without a traffic study yes that has to be a priority and making that happen that's an easy win for our neighborhood and for the town um sidewalks please I encourage you to put them all along Heatherstone as soon as you can um I know Paul and members of our neighborhood have complained about the the level of potholes on the side that's being improved it's kind of like epic um but there's equal I mean the corner that Pippa lives on around when you come right onto Heatherstone that blind curve there are so many potholes there that literally people creen around because they don't see the potholes yet and then to avoid them they literally go on the side of the road so that people it's not safe for other side of the road so it's you know there's been multiple times where people are literally in the other lane because the potholes are so bad there so that I feel like just pushing um Heatherstone up for like further redoing and adding sidewalks is key um I just want to note there has been discussion about speed bumps there is a unique aspect of Echo Hill that I just want to put out there that um Echo Hill is built on a stone Shelf a granite shelf and so speed bumps actually create excessive um vibration and sound for everybody who lives on Echo Hill so I would just say speed bumps are not a viable option for the people who live here on Heatherstone that's why Guilford was trying to experiment with this idea of the mini roundabouts to see if that's a way to do that traffic calming to stop the straightaways so I um I'm kind of in favor of experimenting with this pilot and see how it works with the roundabouts um do I have anything else I want to I think that's it so thank you so much and I really appreciate everyone's efforts around this okay thank you for sharing um zelon Barry hi can you hear me yes we can okay great um I uh Kitty axelon Barry I live on 89 Stony Hill Road um with which is in Echo Hill South but I walk through Echo Hill North which is where Heatherstone is quite frequently um to get mostly to get out to uh either the bus or to um amethyst Brook and and Andy um please stop me when my three minutes are up please feel free to do that okay because I know okay that's needed um so I think that um this idea of roundabouts and also sidewalks are really creating new problems rather than fixing actual problems um the road currently is very nice and white except in the area of the median which is beautiful and even though the pre previous speaker says she always has to like get go onto people's property I never have to and I don't know whether that's just a difference in perception or I don't know what um but I walk there and sometimes we can walk to people three people a breast I mean always um and it's really very beautiful people with wheelchairs have easy access to the streets which they wouldn't have otherwise kids on bikes have access to the streets which they wouldn't have if they had sidewalks um sidewalks narrow the road and if they're not beautifully maintained and as we know the town has a lot of problems keeping up with maintenance of sidewalks as well as roads if a sidewalk is not well maintained it's really impassible so I don't know what people are talking about when they love sidewalks so much um I've been on the board by the way of Echo Hill South Association for more than 10 years and every now and then this question comes up usually with people who are just moving here saying oh we should have sidewalks we should have sidewalks but then after a while they come to love the beauty of being able to like talk to somebody um on a nice nice wide area that isn't limited to a sidewalk I would go along with um painting painting um you know a strip along the road I think we should keep the maintenance um the the the median we should not have sidewalks the um idea of having rotary seems pretty ludicrous to me to go to all that expense and then I mean I just I just can't understand why we would do that um and I think I have said all that I need to say so thank you very much just to repeat maintenance is the important thing along Gate House Road also it's a really bad maintenance problem thank you thank you kitty um next person is a c is identified with please uh tell us who you are and approximately where you live uh and Bas off your comment okay great can you hear me okay yes I can great thanks hi this is Christopher Budnick I live on Wood Road with my wife Angelie and our two kids that are two and four um you know I've come to think of the potholes as a safety measure because otherwise cars just go so fast in the areas that there aren't potholes and I want to like say it's horrible to have to think of them that way that there are not other traffic calming measures so my heart is warmed that y'all are taking up this uh this consideration I know people have been working on this for while we've only lived here for three years but I can't take my kids on Heatherstone uh we have a stroller and there's no room especially where that median is when cars come like we're launching into people's properties um we're getting covered in snow and sleep it's it's it's terrible we can't walk to the farm we we we can't do a lot of things that we should be able to do in the neighborhood because of the median and because of how fast cars go so I want to Echo uh the suggestions of other people who spoke before remove the median please it's terrible hate it it makes life dangerous for us add sidewalks if you can yes love that um pave if these other things are done sounds great uh traffic calming measures like the mini roundabouts as an experiment totally in favor thank you so much um I think the important thing for us is that uh that this is an opportunity to have something happen and if the speed limit can be taken down to 25 um as quickly as possible that would be great and I really encourage you guys to look look at other temporary measures like putting in something that would show people the speed they're going uh putting in uh I don't know a lot about the vibration and how that works but if there are like dampening speed bumps that can be put in would be very much in favor of that too we we can't write our bikes we can't walk on a beautiful Road and we don't get to see all of our neighbors on Heatherstone so uh thank you for taking this up and thank you for the chance to speak today okay well thank you for joining us um next I think is uh Helen um sternheim yes so please identify yourself and give us an approximately where you live okay I live at 72 Heatherstone I'm probably one of the older members of this neighborhood I've lived here for almost 59 years since this house was built when Bill auin built the area area my daughter who lives with me and I don't see any need for sidewalks we live in front of the Medan is in front of our house uh I agree that it may be a little dangerous to walk there but I certainly I slow down for people when I see them there the rest of Heatherstone Road and we do not need sidewalks many roundabouts seem like Overkill uh I don't know about speed bumps now all these people with young children claim that they and their young children are out walking certainly on weekends I may see a few of them most of these children are overbooked with activities and are not around the neighborhood I barely see them I do occasionally see them on weekends and certainly we re one of the reasons we moved to this neighborhood was the trees and the country feel of the neighborhood and sidewalks certainly would eliminate that country feel to the neighborhood which is what many of us moved here for so yes I would like to see Heatherstone Road paved it has not been paved at all except for pothole repairs which don't last in the 59 years I've lived here but I don't see any need for sidewalks and I certainly don't see see any need for roundabouts which will mean construction will last on the roundabouts for a year because I've never seen a roundabout built in less than a year around here and they certainly seem like Overkill so thank you I'm not in favor I'm in favor of Paving I'm not in favor of sidewalks and I'm not in favor of roundabouts thank you I appreciate your comments uh Michael I see that you're with us so same request as for B mothers uh let us know proximately where you live and uh for your comment yeah thank you for this hearing um uh i' I'm in Echo Hill and I live on oakn it's um right off of U Heatherstone and I've lived here for over 30 years and um I just want to I'll be brief I want to support the comments of number of the speakers uh number one it would be really wonderful if you could reduce the speed limit to 25 that would be the the uh well aside from Paving that would be the most wonderful thing you could do the paving is uh what slows people down the where the median strips are right now uh because there's so many potholes um people cars have to slow down I'm a u a senior I'm a lifelong Runner a bicyclist and I walk a big dog I will say as a matter of safety that when I go through that median section um I need to step into the wooded area off of the roads to be sure that my dog and I are safe um I disagree with those who believe it's safe as it is um uh and the easiest solution would be to put sidewalks in but um and I I also think sidewalks could be done in a way that enhances or supports the uh the forested atmosphere of our neighborhood uh but it's kind of a I scratch my head about how the sidewalks will end at the uh at at the near alanwood intersection it'd be great if they went all the way through uh um and it would be great to have speed bumps if you could do that um the idea of three mini roundabouts it seems awfully busy awfully construction oriented did awfully uh taking away from the natural beauty of our neighborhood so I'm in favor of other calming measures than than many roundabouts but um we need to do something and I would listen to the parents of children in this neighborhood especially on that street um because there are times when you see children run into the street yesterday I saw a child run into the street after a soccer ball uh luckily there were no cars but if there was a car and there was a car speeding that child might have been in danger so I I ask you to think about those issues as you go through this process and I thank you very much for your service that's it and thank you for your comment um Alisa Martinez I believe is uh next uh So Lisa yes thank you can you hear me yes we can thank you so much um uh and thanks for the hearing I was alerted to it by my neighbor um we live on Alpine Drive I live at the corner of Alpine and Heatherstone at 17 Alpine uh so just in the middle of the medians and at the beginning of that straightaway um I apologize I missed the beginning of the hearing and so I uh will educate myself about the placement of these proposed roundabouts um but that is my primary concern I I like the big roundabouts in town I think they've been really helpful but the small roundabouts on a resident Street seemed uh pretty intrusive and um and disruptive as others have mentioned um I raised my son um at my house and uh I 100% agree that sidewalks will be an improvement on Heatherstone Road um Paving will be an improvement but that'll speed traffic but the median is not pedestrian friendly it's aesthetic but it's not pedestrian friendly so take that space put it on the side of the road um you know as the previous speaker said there are ways to make them beautiful without heavily taxing Town resources plant some trees and um and you'll have a walking space you'll have a navigable Road that's pav easily pav um and maintainable so I think that that's what I would hope to see um and again I I have driven the stretch from you know from Main Street pum road all the way down to the hack um the dangerous parts [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] section of Heatherstone Al benwood and Stony Hill and I would just like to Echo a lot of the comments that have already been made um but I would like to state that reducing the speed limit would be great but that doesn't do anything unless there's any kind of enforcement of the speed limit um people drive pretty fast in this neighborhood from you know pelum road coming down Heatherstone to Stony Hill to the hack um especially coming down Stony Hill I know we're talking about Heatherstone now but Stony Hill that that Hill um those two Hills coming down to Gate House Road people people speed down those Hills pretty frequently we are a young family we have two young kids we have friends that live over off of Heatherstone Road and in um Echo Hill North and we do not like walking to anybody's houses over there we won't let our kids walk on that street or ride their bikes on that street it is dangerous and the median I do not believe does anything to help as other speakers have already said it seems to be the potholes that are the thing that slow people down in that area not the median I am completely in favor of the roundabouts I think that they are a great traffic calming solution and I would also like to say that narrowing the lanes would also help if you're going to pave the roads I think it would be beneficial to also stripe them with narrower lanes that is just a visual deterrent to speeding and at I would also like to uh bring up the notion or the idea of instead of speed bumps using things like speed tables that can be found in front of ammer College's cafeteria there on nine um I think that those are a good alternative to a traditional speed bump they do cause people to slow down but they don't they don't require them to go as slow as they might if there was a speed bump I am concerned with people speeding on the streets after they're paved um right now people drive fast on the parts of the streets that are that are paved well or you know not full of potholes so that is a concern of mine um I think a lot of people cut from pelum Road over to uh belter toown Road or go to the gym using those streets we have a lot of rentals in the neighborhood um either fortunately or unfortunately depending on who you talk to and there's a lot of people coming to and from classes on the weekends there's people speeding at night I walk my dogs that night generally um and even with a headlamp and a collar lit up on my dog I still feel like people fly past me in cars and give me barely the requisite amount of space as they drive past me fast at night time when it's hard to see I will agree that the curves are areas where it is hard to see people walking especially at night the neighborhoods are not particularly well lit so if somebody is walking at night without any kind of flashlight or any kind of um light to let people know that they're there it can be hard to see them even in that area where the median is you're coming off of uh off of PM Road and there could be people there and it's really hard to see because it's not well lit so those are my concerns I do think sidewalks would probably be one of the better things to do I think you can put sidewalks in and it will in no way ruin the aesthetic of the neighborhood um a sidewalk is similar to a street I don't think the streets ruin the aesthetic of the neighborhood we have lots of trails we have lots of woods um and I don't think you need to put sidewalks on both sides of the street you can put one a sidewalk in on one side of the street and that would be a good solution so those are my comments I appreciate you all listening and taking the time to get some feedback and thank everybody for joining the call thank you thank you very much and uh I think the last person we have is um Mary CLA Griffin hi hi welcome thank you um so I live at 270 Alpine thank you for giving us this opportunity to provide feedback um unfortunately I do want to start my comments with just a little bit of a complaint that that I understand the constraints around timing these meetings um but the timing of this meeting um just makes it really hard for people who have full-time jobs to attend um I fortunately am faculty and have a flexible schedule and I'm not teaching at this time um but the parents of young children are disproportionately working people and it is unfortunate that it's harder for them to be here okay um otherwise I just wanted to say as a child of as a parent of a 2-year-old um I you know she can hardly walk now but I would not feel safe as she gets older um with her walking on Heatherstone um I just unequivocally favor sidewalks I don't care if the median stays or not I just want a sidewalk um and if having a sidewalk requires the median go I think the median should go um I felt even strongly even more strongly about this yesterday I was driving home and even on Alpine um where cars go slower I almost hit someone because we don't have sidewalks and they were walking after dark in all black this is not the first time this has happened if there were a sidewalk that wouldn't happen um I also unequivocally uh favor a lower speed limit but I also want to Echo what someone else said about how a speed limit will not ensure that people go slower um so a 25 M hour speed limit on Heatherstone would be amazing um but between the fact that there's tons of delivery vehicles now um that's something that's really different than it may have been when people originally moved here 20 or 30 years ago um they're unwieldy they drive fast and they don't abide by the speed limit necessarily I also know that you know even you know home owning individuals such as my husband who is not on this call do not abide by the speed limit even when they think they do so I don't think a lower speed limit is enough um and I really enthusiastically favor the mini roundabouts I think they're fantastic I lived in Seattle um and they had a lot of mini roundabouts in those neighborhoods and they were very effective they also offered a nice place to have trees and plantings um and just actually really enhanced the Cozy feel of a neighborhood um so that's all I have to say thank you for this opportunity um and that's all well thank you very much appreciate it and I think we had one more person who's asked to be recognized uh and uh it's an is it Analisa you can it's Analise kol hi and I we are at 218 Heatherstone on the corner of Pebble Ridge in Heatherstone and I apologize but um as me just announced it is very difficult to meet get onto a meeting at this time and it's really unfortunate because so many parents that live on her Heatherstone have small children and would probably Echo so much of what has already been said you know I I'm currently in the middle of um some responsibilities and pulled over in my car just to make sure that you know this is heard but I I certainly am in favor of these roundabouts if something slows it down I'm also in favor of a slower speed limit um in on Heatherstone in our driveway we have a steep driveway so naturally anything from chalk a ball or anything that our children were playing with if they're playing in the front yard at all are going to naturally go towards the street I personally as an adult have been almost hit just checking my mailbox we come around the corner people are speeding through not you know looking at their phones or whatever and really it's actually been a laughable joke that nothing's you know the speed limit has been an issue for years and years and years my husband grew up in this house and he said that that it was an issue you know 30 and 40 years ago but nothing's been done and it's it's shocking in a neighborhood that is full of children and young families and people that like to run and walk and participate outside that nothing's been done up until this point so I certainly support anything that slows it down but as many others have said a speed limit just doesn't do anything unless we're going to enforce it thank you appreciate it one more person who's now asked to be recognized and I hope that uh we can get on to having the committee here from Guilford but I we will uh have order um Andy this the person who's raised their hand had had already spoken today okay just just a note if it's up to you if you'd like to call on them yeah no um I think that uh under that circumstance thank you for pointing that out um I appreciate it and uh Mr J thank you very much for U being present uh but I think we do need to get on to letting um the town manager and uh Mr moring uh um State their uh what what their recommendations are and how they have reached the uh recommendation that they presented through the Town Council to the committee Paul do you want to start or do you want to have Guilford start Andy did you want to begin with with Heatherstone Road yes out of order so out of order of the agenda item so I just wanted to clarify that yes we will start with Heatherstone road because of the large uh number of people I was uh I thank you for mentioning that my thought had been that we would uh U respond uh if there was a large number of people on a single item that we would uh try and get to that item first but we do have um an extensive agenda so we're not going to be able to complete the discussion on hstone today but it's fresh on everybody's mind because we've heard from all of the um people who've offered public comment on the subject so uh back again Paul do you want to start to expedite things I just go straight to Guilford Andy thank you okay Guilford good morning good morning so I you pretty much if we're going to start with Heatherstone you've pretty much heard everything we've we're proposing to do um take out the median add a sidewalk the reason the sidewalk stops at Al andwood Drive is that's where our Paving project stops we' be happy to continue it on but we're just keeping it within the paving project all the improvements we're doing now um we've um we did look at raised um speed humps um as a traffic calming measure in this route in this area but we typically don't like to use them on a main road that serves um Transit and serves um serves Transit and serves emergency response vehicles um on College Street there's a road parallel to main streets parallel to College Street and allows the emergency vehicles of need to to go down Main Street and go around the speed the rais speed hump sorry there raised crosswalk there got it um so that allows that to happen um there's also no transit buses that go down um College Street uh UMass has a different view on raise raay crosswalks speed humps they put them everywhere um and yes they if you put them everywhere and put them very close together you can slow traffic and have effect on traffic um but so we don't really like to put speed humps where we have um Transit in the the Primary Response route for emergency vehicles so that's why they weren't chosen here so we chose the mini roundabout it's a horizontal deflection versus a vertical deflection makes you have to slow down and go right and then back left as you go around them um that is that does have some traffic calming ability it's uh we use those on College Street not College Street South Pleasant Street by the college um we have those there where you have the splitter islands in the middle the road that make you diverge out and diverge back in um we did not leave the median in place because one the the median really wasn't constructed very well to begin with uh if we want to put the median back we need to do a lot of work putting it back in we also believe we can be better to have narrower lanes and a sidewalk on the side of the road to get people to visually see that there are pedestrians and they slow the traffic down um happy to paint a yellow line down the road if they want to do that um the yellow lines sometimes uh painting does make people have a visual of it's smaller but then again we actually have studies that say when you're on a painted Road you tend to drive faster because you think you're on a more urban uh collector than on a rule or Side Road where you should be driving slower um so this is the project so Heatherstone before you um that's kind of what we come up with if you want us to take a pause and have a public hearing with uh more people and let them talk and have a more say and what's going on and have more discussion with them uh we have time to do that um so we don't have to approve it today Gil Gilford question came up um is there are there any land takings required for any of this Paving project at this time there's not when we start moving into uh when we start moving further into the road and trying to connect with Gate House there'll be some probably some takings along that route but for the project before the council there are no land takings there's no new land takings there maybe a issue we have to clean up at the corner with pelum road which looks like we po the road on top of somebody's property when it was first built um but we've got this most of the sidewalks and we think most even with the roundabouts many roundabouts were're off everybody's everybody's property except for prop there's actually probably one maybe at Alpine that we might have to like a little corner property but it looks like they all fit good thank you one question that I had I want to turn it over to the committee to ask questions um are the U I don't think we have any neighborhoods where neighborhood streets have roundabouts right now the roundabouts are on larger roadways um is that correct we have been slow to put many roundabouts into the neighborhoods because we haven't found good places to try them and had time to try them we have the smallest roundabout we have is actually on Snell Street University that little one there that is the smallest one we have what we propose for this neighborhood would actually be smaller than that do you know of any uh neighborhood communities that have one that people could look at either from the neighborhood or from the committee um I would have to look in the western part of the state I'm not sure of many there's several in the eastern part of the state so look it looks like Andy froze so I'm gonna call on George Ryan thank you Paul Gilford one question was raised was if these mini run which I like the idea of the mini runabouts I like the idea of traffic cing I like the idea of taking steps to actually try and get people to slow down I certainly agree that if we could lower the speed limit that would be great um but I think it's also true that that by itself doesn't really often accomplish much so some kind of traffic coming measures are really valuable and so I I like this idea um but the question was raised I think during public comment uh are they easy to remove if you find that for some reason these aren't working um is this a big big problem no it it should be very easy to take out if we decide not to do it or not to keep it thank D her can I just jump in there for a second and so just to clarify while the request is permanent changes to the public way what Gilford is proposing is a pilot program for these mini roundabouts where it they can be removed and there's no because it because they are built there to be temporary and see how they work so Jennifer town uh thank you so I have I guess a couple questions few questions um so if it's a pilot do we know how long is there a time you'll be evaluating it over a certain period of time we would like to do it over a year okay okay um thank you and the sidewalks could they you had said that the sidewalks were going as long for the portion of the road excuse me that was being repaved um I mean I know that there were comments some residents favor sidewalks some don't but there were several that seem to want um requested the sidewalks go all the way down I think is it to Stony Hill if to Gate House possible yeah it would be another it would require another I mean we'd have to design it and put it together we haven't done that yet so that would be like a phase two it would be a phase part of this um so if slower the speed limit is something we can do Under the chapter that was cited of state law um could couldn't I mean what would it take to do that because it couldn't hurt I believe the chapter they quoted is the old default speed limit rule um there actually are newer changes that were we've been given um that allows us to do it in a different way um and that's probably the way we should do it if we want to look at it we've been looking at this in um the kushman neighborhood and we have the report back on that so I would actually propose waiting and doing it after we find out if we can after we see we we do the kushman one and see if we can do it there that would give us a better guidance on how we can do it I believe what they're quoting in the 2016 rule is the de facto speed limit which actually makes it harder for the police to write a ticket you can lower the speed limit but but at least have restrictions on how they can enforce but I'm not sure I think I thought that was a little older in 2016 so what you're suggesting is the lower the speed limit at kushman neighbor area and see how effective that is and then look at imposing that you know making that change on Heatherstone no no just going through that process and seeing how the process works and then we can use the same process on on this one believe and how would we would this committee sort of put that on our calendar to revisit that I mean how do we or with the neighbors kind of I think it's I think it's been brought to the attention it'll probably be once we once kushman goes through I believe we'll get a lot of people requesting to do speed zones in uh so forth in neighborhoods okay thank you uh pner yeah I also I I support the reduced speed limit I think that would help and I think uh sidewalks will help as well um I do think we should look into phase two as quickly as possible I recognize you know there's limits on the resources that everyone has but um it seems like we shouldn't just do one end of a of a thoroughfare um when there's going to be obvious um improvements there but not improvements uh further down the street um I think it would be helpful to get to phase two as soon as we can um I um I agree that reducing speed limits doesn't help much but uh we should maybe talk to the police department about um enforcing the speed limits as they are um and uh putting the those signs up that you're speeding and slow down um which uh do actually calm traffic I have seen that in my neighborhood so if that that seems like if we could install that for some period of time that would help that's it that's the Lord um thank you um I'm really excited about this pilot program and moving towards permanent and getting a lot of information how it might impact um other neighborhoods and I know you said it wouldn't be a big issue here but I'm not sure I'm familiar with land take or taking land um is that taking you know buying it from residents is that usually could um somebody please explain to me what that means or entails PA so most of the time when we take land and a merley uh it's very small piece of land and it's its value is is very very small um so what we usually end up is we end up negotiating with the property owner to donate the land as either an easement which means they still own the land and we have the right to use it or we do a fee taking where we outright take the land and it becomes Town part of the Town layout and usually there's some type of compensation that comes in because it's usually such a small piece of property it's usually a small piece of compensation thank you Jennifer yeah more curiosity um if they donate the land they get a tax deduction or is there any their lot get to the town their lot gets smaller so it's less the tax but it's a small small okay um so I guess what we need to do as a committee is is um identify for this particular proposal whether uh we need additional information and um so that we can give a list to um PA Gilford about what information the committee wishes to have or do we feel that we have enough information that we can uh proceed uh Bob well I I I think we we certainly have enough information to proceed but I would like to provide the the the people living there with a a a more robust chance to provide public comment so if we could have a public Hearing in the evening when people are more available I think that could help uh just to broaden the perspectives that we we've seen but I mean I can I can I'm prepared to vote now if we if we if if that makes sense um Jennifer actually I think George's hand went up first and come back to me George um definitely public hearing probably would would be appropriate um given the level of interest um you might also mention to folks who are still listening that they can also just send us written comments um that can be a way you can deal with the difficulty of meeting times but I think customarily uh I've not been on this committee for a while but um we customarily I would think do public hearings for these sorts of requests and we've got a bunch of them on our plate at the moment um so I would think that that this would be um a natural thing to do um the other is perhaps more controversial but again uh when I was on the committee in the past we would reach out to TS to uh Tac and we'd also reach out to daac um we would like their input um we would notify them they'd look at the the materials we've been given and they would offer us a written comment so I would also think that it would be appropriate for us to reach out to them points Jennifer did you have anything else you're gonna no I just wanted to support I well I support George just um suggested and having a public hearing because you know I would want also everyone in the audience to know that we heard you um it's I've always torn you know as a council member when when people offer you know very almost diametrically opposed public comment and I don't live on this you know in that neighborhood to know so I don't want people to feel that they haven't been heard so I think having a a public comment um or having a hearing where more people could participate but um I'm always torn when I hear you know some people say we want sidewalks we don't want sidewalks it's a hard call our policy I believe does not require public hearing Athena that's exactly what I was going to say that the Town Council policy on um control and regulation of the public ways doesn't doesn't require hearing on permanent changes to the public way um and there are we've we've deliberately tried not to if if a committee wants to hold an additional listening session we've we've tried not to call it a public hearing to avoid confusion with the public hearings that are required by the charter so I would advise if the committee wants to go that route not to call it a public hearing but to call it a listening session so um you it was uh interesting group of comments I appreciated all that we heard from but was in total agreement uh and I think that in the end uh still substitute to making a decision is everybody on the committee familiar with that um neighborhood have you driven hea St the Stony Hill Gate House to understand the connection I've driven it it's been a while since I've gone that way so I'm I plan to go that way and pay more attention to the issues that have been raised um but I I certainly know the Boles are there I drove P when it was on the council agenda couple weeks ago I've driven it and walked it so uh is there anything else that anybody would like to offer and because then I think we have to reach a conclusion as to uh whether we want to do a listening session is which is the title suggested and uh what other inform in contact daac intact to see if they have any comments which probably is true of the other um Street proposals that we have before us that we should uh not just limit it to this one but councilor Lord is it um bound together like can the paving be moved forward ahead of the mini roundabouts or are they kind of a package deal yeah Guilford and uh when were you thinking that you need a decision and when were you thinking that you were going to do the work it it's a package deal we don't want to have the contractor move in and then move out and have to come back in and work over stuff he's already worked on but this road is probably at the end of the list of Roads we're going to pave this year um or the first group of Roads we're going to PVE is at the end of that list there's a little cuest sack in this neighborhood that gets paved that we have to replace a water line on before we pave it this year so um we have a couple months to think about it and discuss it this this project we do good PA yeah so I think if the council if the TSO committee is going to vote to uh request the opinions of the daac and they intact that you are explicit about what you are requesting them to aine on um in terms of the areas of expertise and then also provide a deadline so you have time to reconsider and then make a recommendation to the full Council and in time for Gilford to be able to do the paving under this contract that we already have in place uh yeah so I think that what would be helpful um if you can do it today that'd be great if you can't do it today that um you could send a Meo to the committee too about what are the dates for each of the projects that are listed um what are the ones that need decisions from the committee the soonest and um what is do you have any approximate schedules on any of them belch toown road is the only one we need a decision on rather quickly okay that's helpful to know because maybe we should take that up as our second item [Music] then uh so is there is it a committee consensus I don't uh somebody wants to make a motion they're always welcome to but committee consensus is is that uh we're going to uh try and um let da and Tac know and if there are specific question as was mentioned by Paul other specific issues that were looking for input on I think with Tac has done a lot of good work and uh and know George you've worked with uh Tech also on things like U speed limits and traffic cing devices and what's effective because I think that was where a lot of this was coming down is this uh uh where where we were getting disagreements is that there was uncertainty about whether uh just on their own the traffic uh speed limit reduction will work because unless you have enforcement and we just have a limited capacity of our police department and U being on a res presidential street it's going to be a big ask on a regular basis C Ryan so um echoing Paul I think we want to be very specific about what we're asking um of these two committees I think we should ask them I get the feeling there is a consensus that we should but perhaps we need a motion but we should be very specific um we should also give them a fairly strict time limit um you know two weeks or you know what ever or something um so we can get it back in in in in good time I personally have found it very helpful when Tac is weighed in I realize it takes more time it's another layer um but I find that they often bring a level of of understanding and knowledge especially with bike safety pedestrian safety um also they might have some thoughts on the mini Round mini roundabouts that might be interesting for us to hear so we should be very specific we're asking them about this specific project and I take it these four specific or five specific changes and um and give them a time limit and if they get back to us in time grade if they don't then we we we move ahead okay um is there any objection to uh turning to the belard toown road or question because that was the one that it seen in when we asked what was most needed Athena I think for members of the audience it would be helpful if the committee indicated that you're planning on holding a public listening session and when you might take this up again um I think the next step would be to uh see if we can get any U give a short turnaround input from daac disability access advisory committee and from um ha the transportation judger committee see if and then um have that input available before we do the listing session and uh so councilor Ryan's recommendation that we uh give a very specific time limit I think really needs to be built around the listening session and uh when the committee is meeting next on April 11 and April 25 so did you want to include um a a request for opinions from the Transportation advisory committee and disability access advisory committee by the 11th or the 25th and and then move forward with scheduling a listening session probably have to do it the 25th only because uh we have to give respect to the Committees that they would need to have time to organize their own meetings and schedule around meetings that at a time that work for their members um um so just to clarify what I'm including here is that the members agreed to request opinions from the disability access advisory committee and the transportation advisory committee on bike pedestrian and um disabled resident safety for the proposed project by April 25 and then the committee will move forward with scheduling a listening session is that accurate yes and I think we could uh go ahead and uh look for a date for the for a listening session if we want to try and do that in the evening we have to um PLL a committee to find what's an available date that all members of the committee would be available so there's series of steps there I think that the first one is that um maybe I'll work with the uh Vice chair of the committee uh councelor Ryan and uh we will um draft a uh request and circulated to the committee just is uh it will be a public document because it will be circulated to the committee but uh but we propose to ask and see if there are any comments and U get that request off to those committees as quickly as we can and um sorry one more thing the the committee will look for a listening session time that will be um easier for working people to attend in the evening is that correct I think so U unless there's disagreement uh they should raise hands and let me know but I think that's probably what would be helpful to um as was suggested by several commenters today thank you and then for members in the audience um if and when the committee schedules a listening session it'll be posted on the board of committee calendar on the town website thank you hey uh Paul I just want to note that the daac is meeting on April 9th so we can alert them that this will be coming their way if they're able to add it to their agenda or not as a we'll leave it up to the chair okay um Jennifer no and when does TAC beat next could I don't know if they have a posted meeting yet okay they usually meet once a month I believe Gilford do you know in Tech does Tech have a meeting that you're aware of ta's next meeting is on the 4th of April okay that's so we'll try and uh El Ryan so yeah you can um just also just share the material with them um and hopefully they could take it up at their next meeting but certainly at the following one um just send them the uh the files that we have I assume you would but that just didn't seem simplif things so they have to go hunt and find them so I think that what we're at what we want to do is we can send that we can let them know about all of the things that have been referred to the committee but emphasize that the ones that we are giving priority to belter toown Road and Heatherstone Road um at this time because the alter Town Road is the one that we have been alerted needs a prompt decision and I'm going to turn to Guilford to make a presentation on that and uh then um in Heather Stone we want to do it because we want to try and get a uh public um listening session scheduled so Guilford um why can you tell us a little bit about uh more about belter Town Road and then see if there questions we do have the information that was provided of course to the council AO do you want to ring uh pull up the page with this shows the map sure we'll do that one second please thank you Mach so so we've I'll just go ahead and start we've been working on belch toown Road for many years on a plan to improve the road the plan because we were approaching this as being a funded by the state uh Transportation Improvement plan we actually had to add bike Lanes to this so we've been working on it as a bike lane project with an upgrade sidewalks all along um so what happened is while we were discussing this [Music] the we applied for a mass Works grant for sidewalk improvements from what the properties the town purchase which are the ones um can I move them cursor or can only you Athena I think I can could you highlight the three prop properties the town bought they're the ones just across from belch Town yes the town bought these three properties and they're going to be developed into affordable housing so we applied for a mass Works Grant and then we got a $750,000 grant from the state to actually do the sidewalks from this area back towards the intersection with uh Southeast Street so that's why this project has moved has been kind of broken out from the old the entire belch toown road project so the project is is to add the bike lane or the changes that are that are there now is add the bike lanes and then we're putting a crosswalk in at the driveway to Colonial Village which will cross over to the properties the town bought to allow this new development to access the bus stops on both sides of the road um Colonial Village actually has a bus stop inside the development so they don't need this but this will allow the people on the north side of belch toown road to cross over after they get off the bus coming home and how about crosswalk there so the two changes are uh adding bike Lanes the entire length from the driveway of Colonial Village back to College Street and to add the crosswalk at Colonial Village Drive driveway as that's the two changes that require approval could you tell us uh what the sidewalk situation is currently just to give us the context there there are existing sidewalks there they are distri pair they need some maintenance um so this will just this will actually push them back and make new sidewalks where make new sidewalks and then put a bike lane in the bike Lan would be on the road or on the sidewalk on the road okay so C Ryan Gil could you say something about the time constraints you had said that this is something that's more pressing um again we we have we have a mass Works Grant now so the mass Works Grant um has to we have to kind of finish this this year that's why it's more pressing okay I rais that only because um again our normal procedure is at least like I assume is our normal procedure is to get the advice again um Tac and daac um and to uh consider having some kind of uh public meeting listening session whatever um Point has been made that this is not not required um at least the lisening session part um so that's something we have to make a decision about um these are fairly specific and I wouldn't say small but you know very specific changes related to uh a larger project that's ongoing um so that might be a factor for us in thinking about whether a listing session is required or not but I would think um normally we'd reach out to uh Tac and to daac um and is there time for that I guess is the question from your perspective just time as long as we as long as we are I mean yes there's time to do it we we we would definitely have committed to doing bike Lanes so you can call them bike Lanes you can call them shoulders um if you call them bike Lanes they fall and they fall in your um the town council's guidance document for changes to the public way they call it a shoulder it doesn't really fall in the guidance in the town way but the crosswalk clearly if we're adding a crosswalk we clearly have to get permission is what the guidance says and so I guess the issue for us if may speak is is whether um the crosswalk by itself merits that level of of input and I I don't I don't know what the rest of my colleagues think but that would be the question yeah of course timing is a question too because uh the other thing I'm going to point out real quickly and then uh know that the Bob hegner you I'll calling you in just a second uh attack from um the work that I did with them is Le on during the last year and um is they are very concerned and very attentive to what they refer to because it has there's um pieces that go with it it's called safe roots to schools and it's about being conscious of what is a safe walk in route to a school when they're in walking distance uh given the number of children who may live in Colonial Village who we anticipate living in the um housing that were built we want to see built on the land that the town acquired on belter Town Road um and uh possible other residences that may have uh children I think that it is worth getting tax view also on the safe roots to school question uh Bob yeah I just wanted to say that um I I'm very familiar with this road I drive it every day um and it is very dangerous in this area I think I mentioned that in a finance committee meeting um a year or two ago um I think one question I have Guilford are you planning to make the pavement wider uh so to accommodate the the bike Lanes yes the payment the payment does have to get wider and then so so then the sidewalks would then be pushed further back is that correct we'll be going all the way back to the property line which we don't do now okay um because I know that further down the street us you you're going to run into some uh fire hydrants um that are right next right next to the the existing sidewalks and not I don't think you'll you're going to hit any here but um I think it's a great idea um I think the crosswalk is a great idea I've been very concerned about the development of of this area particularly the the um the property that we we plan to develop for uh low-income housing um because it's as I say it's it's and and I think Myra Ross's comments are are we should take into account it's a very dangerous place I've walked it it's very dangerous for right now for pedestrians it's uh I biked it it's very dangerous for bikers um and uh it's I think this would be a a very a vast Improvement I think if you know children walking from Colonial Village to Fort River um I think that um they could cross safely if they could cross safely at the crosswalk it would uh then make it give them a broader sidewalk to walk on um it's not great to walk through there but it's better than nothing um and um I I really think it's is a a great Improvement thank you Paul yeah I I just want to uh CR give credit to Guilford and the DPW and the conservation development team for getting this significant Grant to do this work I mean it as Bob said it combines you know a heavily populated uh low and moderate income area new development by the town for affordable housing uh our community gardens across the street and the new construction of Fort River for safe fruits of school you you've hit on all the sort of key things why a couple years ago the town staff had prioritized that to seek grants the grant for this area so uh but credit to the town staff for conceptualizing it and then getting it so you know getting an application that was seen as being valuable by the state $750,000 is a significant amount of money [Music] M okay so I think the where we're at is that uh we want to give our friends a Tac and DAC opportunity to offer comments um I think that the one thing that we did hear from Myra already is uh concern about um sidewalks and U mixing sidewalk bus and bicycles in I think she mentioned ebikes if I recall um I don't know Guilford if you've had any thoughts about that but she said there Myra said a Miss Ross said a awful L things um we have to we have to abide by the rules that are prated by the state and the federal government for Ada and we follow those rules the issu she was bringing up on North Hampton Road or state issues we did not do that project yeah no I'm thinking more about how it affects this particular section that we're dealing with now we we pretty I mean we follow all the rules we required to follow in doing this section um so we're looking at that all that um and the proposal is that we put in our the re rectangular rapid rectangular fashion beacons the rfbs um for enhanced Vis ability because of the speeds on the road um but we do look at all that even though she doesn't think we do or the commit maybe the dacc doesn't think we do um but that is part of what we do so uh George ccor Ryan uh just a timing issue uh may be premature here um it sounds like we're going to send this to as we did with Heatherstone Road this will go in that packet with a request that it uh they act on it as is as quickly as they possibly can um do we want to have a uh maybe are we ready to think about whether we want a listing session for this maybe maybe that's something we can decide later um my actual reason for raising my hand is that we did hope to get to the RFI this morning uh waist hauler that's something that I think some people are interested in hearing about and it's now uh 11:41 I was aware of that and I'm not sure what that I can do about that or you can do about that um Paul yeah just in terms of timing um I would encourage the committee to conduct its work so you can get a recommendation back to the Town Council by May 6th um if that's at all possible for all four of these projects I think that's doable um given the time frame but um that's the next council meeting after the eth and I you can't you're not going to have time to get it by the 8th April 8th but you could get it by May 6th if that's and I think that's there with this one in particular there's some time urgency to spend the grant well we we I just want to clarify what you what you were just saying Paul is that because we had talked about identifying the highest priorities um the picked on two of the projects for highest priorities and now it seems like you're encouraging all of them to be just those too okay um Thea um Paul to clarify the council meetings in may or may 6 and 20 did did are you asking the committee for a recommendation to the council for Council action on the 6th or the 20th May 6 thank you yeah for uh particularly for belter toown Road I assume that that's essential and uh as far as uh if we're going to have a listening session it may be hard to make it for the sixth but it didn't sound like that was as essential for um the date as the Belton Road is just saying that just to give you an opportunity to disagree um so I guess what I would like to do we have um some other road projects but um I think we do want to have a little bit of time to talk about the r the RFI and um also um recognize that we have what are the pomoy U Lane proposal and the roundabout um is there any with the with the uh the work on the roundabout that would be on uh AMD Street um at University Drive is there a timeline on that so actually I can quickly do the next two if you want to um am Street roundabout is is the first time we're bringing it Forward there is a proposal that's going forward for a grant possibly later this this spring and summer so there's no funding design or no funding for this round about this time so this is this can be discussed and talked about in great in a great a lot more detail greater detail um but this is the concept that is being proposed that by um the town and UMass UMass and the town both worked on this one the other project on West is the installation of two crosswalks and some splitter islands and a bike lane there as well um and that project is if we get around to it we'll get around to it at the end of the construction season which is October or November if it gets moved to next year it' be fine if it gets moved to next year I'm sure the residents in that area would like us to move faster everybody wants to go faster including the okay um so uh the RFI um I that the uh do everybody had a chance to uh read it I assume yeah so maybe I just open it up for see if there questions uh Bob yeah I just had a question about what is Organics is that like yard waste or leaves or what is Organics it's the compostables is what it really is um it could be it could be H added to some communities actually put your compost in your yard ways together um it's basically the same thing so it's kind of gotten the title of Organics um so we we asked yes we asked about that so well nobody has it so it's kind of mood at this point but some people do yard waste but they don't do the food waste with it right okay there are some communities in Eastern Massachusetts we know from zero waste hammers that are doing it though but just not these companies are at least in their response are saying that they don't correct the three companies that responded said they don't curently do it one company says I have a pilot program going on but they didn't say whether they would expand it may I ask a question relative to that I'm sorry oh you can go ahead George if you want I'm sorry it's just relevant to that I I was a customer of USA waste and they did provide compostables uh and I paid for it it's like $60 a month now maybe they' stopped that program but um at least in my experience what this says is not true um they did have a combustibles and uh I paid for it and then I finally decided to use the transfer station that was in the last probably year to year and a half at the most probably last year so maybe they stopped it or maybe they're not telling us the truth I I think that's the pilot program they were talking about ah and that they've decided they're not going to pursue it um I I think they still offer it if you're willing to pay that pay for it okay right thank you right sorry jener Jennifer no that's fine I was also um I'm sorry I went on mute so will can one or more of the companies will they provide Cur if we want the curbside compost pickup every every responder said they would provide it if we asked for it okay but they wouldn't there's no comparable pricing um to know what that is is so the pricing so the pricing we kind of put together is just for trash pickup and recycling pickup so that's sort of a wallpark of what it that would be so the compost we wouldn't know what that price would be until the if we issued an RFP and the responses came back correct we're kind of in a chicken in an egg situation we'd like to know how much it's going to cost us but we can't really find out how much it's going to truly know how much it's going to cost us until we do the RFP we only have this little we have a range because it's not all the services we're going to ask for there um we also in reviewing contracts with other communities found out that um there's a wide range and services the vendors provide as far as managing the program most of the communities seem to manage the program themselves um so there's a cost to the community for doing that which is not found by looking just at the hauler contract so that means that the other communities do would they still be considered Contracting it out or would it be considered doing it themselves they contract out the service of collection but they managed the contract and the customers in house and do we have a sense of what if Amis were to consider that what kind of Staffing I mean would you have I'm assuming additional staff would have to be retained we would have to I mean what what kind of people power is that I think now that's that's a question if we're g to keep moving forward we need to kind of push forward the question of what other what does other communities do and how they they pricing it okay so if we wanted to do research with other communities is that something it's easy to Doo members could do or would staff do that no we we can how would we can get that information very easily we definitely need more information stream if you could elaborate on that that the C you're saying that the three respondents are moving to single stream um the the the three companies are moving to um automated collection and when you look at the contracts they have um automated collection everybody who has automated collection right now for their um for their recyclables it's a single stream system it's not a dual stream the Dual stream communities have um not they don't they have the totes like we have not the bins that are automatically picked up so every vendor said pretty much if they come into ammer they want to do everything automated so that probably means we're going to have to go to a single stream recycling program and we'll have to have uh toter for just about everything the large rolloff bins with the wheels well that's what I have I mean isn't that what everyone has with USA if you're if you're if you're with USA you have that now but if you're G do if you're going to do compostables then you are Organics you may have a third one to go for the compostables or Organics that that would be part of the new contract to have the compuls would go in that I see it going yes is it your understanding that the trucks that are doing the automatic pickup would not have the capacity to take on a third pickup at the same time it depends on how they bought their trucks but most of the trucks that are dual capacity are actually manual trucks that are not automated trucks so when USA is coming through they're actually coming through twice and if you have compostables a weekly compostable pickup or Organics pickup that'll be the third truck weekly unless you do unless we say it's Organics every other week and recycling every other week then you can cut it down to but I I'm not sure that would work for us because why do you say then we we gener some of our some of our customers generate a lot of waste if you just see the waist bends outside if you went every other week you may not it would be a lot of waste that would be on the curb every other week the rental properties next to our house they fill their recycling tub every week every week it's full so you couldn't you have a hard time telling then they have to wait every other week to get your recyclables picked up yeah yeah space I was just curious because South Hadley I think is every other week it is Jennifer recy I'm sorry good no I mean our recyclables are picked up every other week by you by USA my USA contract was every week they took both wow no we trash is every week and recycling is every other week that we have maybe that's just our hunt oh it must be different contracts they have for different people right now but our neighbors next door it's every they get the same thing every week and I got the same when I had them I got the same every week are they doing something different in Hadley than in dammer well the the two our two neighbors next door door here are in ammer the two rental properties next door they are every week does anybody else have every other week for Recycle USA USA didn't provide a lot of really in-depth detail how they do their things and they didn't provide um so that was something else we had to work around uh coun Ryan can I ask about what I've heard is that pay as you throw is sort of the ideal sort of the the gold standard and what you say in your uh report is that this move would make pay as you throw Possible only through the size and number of carts so if I understand that and I probably don't um if you're going to an automated system um you know you can't have bags that people are going to jump out of the truck and pick up it's got to be in a tote it's got to be in some kind of container and um so I guess the question is will this work you seem to suggest that it could work I need I I'm obviously new to some of this so I'm I'm I'm I'm scrambling a bit but um I'd like to retain pay as you throw if that were possible but um is it possible and yeah it's I think it's going to be I my personal opinion is it's going to be hard to do to do bags to sell bags and you buy a bag and you put it in the trash and that's how you do pay you throw um uh working with Susan Wade she thinks you can still do it um South Hadley is about to venture into the realm of doing bags selling bags and putting it into the cart for automatic delivery so there's a community ahead of us trying to do it um I I really think once it goes in that tote there's not going to be a person who's gonna get out and look in the tote person's sitting in a truck he's actually G to drive up grab the tote dump it he won't be able to see very well what he's dumping and then he's going to drive away after he sets the tote down so it it it could work is it really going to work it may just be that the if you want a pay you throw you get a 32 gallon if you have a small amount you get a 65 gallon if you have a medium amount and you get the 92 gallon totes if you have a lot and then if you need to have two of them you have two of them and that's that's kind of how I'm thinking that the vendors are going to want to set up pay you throw although South Hadley like I said is going to try it anything else C Ryan or can I go no go ahead yeah I I I just want to point out that I have an issue with compostables not that I don't want to do it but there's certain times of year when it gets to be warm I can't do it because ants get in the house and ask it in the garage where I leave it I don't put it outside because we've got you know bears and other Critters running around uh so uh it's I it's great in the winter but I can't do it in the summer um and so if I'm forced to do it I think it'll be uh I think a lot of people will have some problems with it just because you know you when you have ants it means you got to deal with the ants and it's not always easy to deal with the ants in the house or in the garage even when they come in so um which means you might have to leave it outside which means then once the bearss figure out how to do it it's game over so how to open them up it's game over so anyway I I I support the idea but I can't I I don't know how it's going to work in the warm weather uh when when you know ants and other Critters are running around it's a good point and uh one I think that we can talk to zero jamers to see if they have any information that would help to answer that question uh Jennifer yeah I'm just thinking back to the MMA uh seminar you know session and like Long Meadow they I have to find it they sent me their contract but but the person speaking the panelist from long meow said I'm sorry that it that the payers you throw had absolutely resulted in they had achieved waste reduction that there was a they thought very sizable reduction and waste with the pays you throw and I other of the municipalities that spoke or were on the panel said the same thing so I'm just trying to think of the next steps I mean I do think zero waste ammer has they've done some extensive surveys we want to invite a couple of Representatives to come meet with the committee of of what where does the committee kind of go from here I know we can't have subcommittees because then that we be subject to hope the meeting law but how we um get more information in some of our questions answered what what could be the next steps this committee would do I don't know if it's maybe inviting Susan weight to come with some a representative from zero waste amest to have you know some of our questions answered and how to to you know further evaluate so if I Jennifer if I could ask you just one question they said they reduce trash but do they have actual numbers because we don't have numbers of what we produc for trash we just the numbers we report to D are the numbers from the transfer station we do not report numbers from the private haulers so how do they truly know they reduced is always my question I ask them um yeah I I don't know what I can go I can't answer that for Long Meadow um because they do contract out Paul might remember do they do handle trash collection themselves because if they do it themselves then they probably would know wouldn't wouldn't they then keep track of how much trash is being if they did themselves yes so I think that I think that they it's an in-house service but they have a pay as you throw fee structure I I can I can do a little more research on that but they they they felt pretty confident in make that statement so I'm thinking that's how I I'm thinking they do it themselves so I've been try and get the meeting to uh get the minutes done and uh get us adjourned as quickly as possible counc Ryan do you have anything else to add at this point of course I do go ahead I'm sorry I know it's it's afternoon and uh you can tell me Andy to stop and I don't mind um but again in my experience speaking personally I do pay as you throw and I know from my own experience that I've reduced my waste by an enormous amount I here at Guilford we uh can find we'll go to Long Meadow we'll reach out to Z waste amorist we do need some data um we need to know that what what's behind this but speaking from personal experience because the kind of composting that that that these outfits do is not just Organics um it's it's soiled paper it's just about you know I basically almost everything that I don't put into recycling um goes into my compost um and then there there's the trash is basically plastic and so I use like one town of amoris Blue Bag a month and that's for about five adults um so there it is you know that's my you know that's anecdotal personels what it's worth we need some numbers um but that's the argument behind the compostable I hear Bob's concern um what I do is I just bought myself a you know a modest container with a strong lid and I put a brick on top of it and it lives outside but I realize in the summer it can get a little smelly um and you have to secure it um and we do have beers in our neighborhood too though Bob probably has more than we do um but it's it's a small I think it's a small price to pay because in my experience you can reduce your waste output enormously um anyway that's my two cents and it's afternoon um Jennifer anything else because I no I just wanted to ask we just keep this on the agenda I don't even know that Guilford I don't want to take guilford's time next meeting if we don't have to but just for us to discuss next steps I I think so um I think that our plan for the next meeting was we were going to meet with the uh Community participation U officers but uh and talk about Outreach but I I was thinking that this needs to go back on the agenda for our discussion purposes and I'll just note that I uh do the uh take my uh trash to the transfer station and uh we have backyard composting and uh so we don't have the compost problem in the house because it goes straight into the U bin in the backyard we've never had a bare problem but I've always concerned that it might happen uh we certainly uh find that with recycling uh that we also can very much limit our trash back up um we have three sets of minutes February 1st February 15th and March 14 I had one question about March 14 does anybody have any questions about or changes that they want to propose on March 1st or on February 1st to February 15 uh I have one question for uh George um in the uh one the the March 14th minutes uh where we're talking about U the college ammer College sign you said um you're quoted in there saying Ryan stated that he is not concerned with the amount of signage at the corner but was con but that was a concern raised by committee members in my recollection was I wasn't a member of the committee it was other counselors when we discussed it and so the the only change that I came up with out of all three minutes was to change the words uh committee members to counselors I have no objection that that was what I was trying to say I was reporting what a counselor had raised as a concern it was one counselor uh that's my memory yes there one there may have been more but at least one yeah I think then there was two uh Jennifer said two so that we could leave I think one had a concern about safety and the other just visual but it was two that during the meeting that raised so um that's the propos that that's the change I would propose is to put in counselors instead of commune members uh Bob yeah under uh the North Pleasant Street pedestrian improvements um I did raise the issue of raising uh the crosswalks and Guilford gave the same answer he gave today which was that's an emergency route uh you know emergency vehicles there so they don't want to use that but I think the Mee the minute notes should reflect that so well let's see which V are we on now this is the the 14th it's under three North Pleasant Street improvements it's on the second page um there's a whole bunch of comments in there and then but that isn't in there and I I specifically did raise that issue or ask about that issue so you have a specific language that atha you can give to Athena because yeah I could say something like uh you know hegner um asked about raise crossworks cross walks and Mr moring noted that the policy is not to put uh speed bumps on through routs or routes that are used by uh emergency vehicles and uh Council of Lord um will we be voting on all three of these as one and if so do I need to abstain since I missed the March 14 even okay I can we can take them uh take February 1st 15 separately because actually um what the motion would be uh CA did you have a question before I get to motion um to answer councelor Lord's question um you you can vote on minutes when you weren't uh participant at the meeting um but if you want to take them up separately so that you can abstain or or whatever for um meetings that you weren't present that's fine and I would just ask that members who have changes to minutes please send me the wording because I don't think I'm capturing um all the exact language I'd appreciate that thank you I'll do that okay and I U that's pretty easy but I can do that too uh so why don't we take it is two separate motions let's just vote on them because it'll go quick with the small number of members committee and then I think that um we're probably ready to adjourn um so I'm going to move to adopt the um to accept the minutes um for February 1st and February 15 15 2024 as presented second the motion made and seconded so uh we'll start with uh counselor Lord Lord I and uh councelor hegner I and uh coun Ryan hi and I'm and I and councelor toab I so it's unanimous and then the second uh is to adopt accept the minutes of March uh 14 2024 as amended second so motion made and seconded uh just real quickly uh Bob hegner hi and uh councelor Lord Lord I um and councelor Ryan I yeah I'm and I and Council tab I okay so um we have two separate motions we've taken care of all of the minutes is there anything else we need to do I don't think so but um I think our new practices somebody needs to make a motion to adjourn so moved second okay motion made seconded and Council Lord Lord I uh councelor hegner hi councelor Ryan hi I'm and I and Council toab I it's unanimous we are adjourned thank you very much yeah all thank you gfri thank you