okay we're recording okay I'd like to call the uh Town services and Outreach Committee of the Town Council for meeting for March 14 2024 to order it is 5 minutes after 10: in the morning and uh we have a quorum of the committee present this meeting is being conducted VI a remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting May do so Zoom or by telephone uh no person in attendance or members of the public be permitted uh will be permitted but uh we have made every effort to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in the meeting by a technological means um let me check with the members of the committee to make sure that everybody can here and be heard um a begner yes president uh John tab present uh councilor Ryan I'm present I'm here and uh at this point we have four members of five and that is a quorum so um we are going to U proceed I do need to advise everybody that this meeting is being recorded and um it is available um it is is being recorded both uh audio and uh for visual so that people are aware of that um so that being said um we um try to begin our meetings with public comment and we do have members of the public who are present um we invite public comment welcome public comment because it's very important part of what we do um it does not have to be about any item on the agenda we do ask that it be related to matters that are within the purview of the uh committee that you're before but um it does not have to be an item on the agenda and I see that there are two three people who have uh asked to be recognized and I'm going to take it in the order that the hands went up and ask that um you come in and um try and limit your comments to two minutes um and um but uh you know least give us a sense of what it is that brings you to us and uh so Darcy could Darcy in hi Darcy good morning morning um uh my name is Darcy Dumont I live in District three I'm speaking on behalf of zero waste ammer and I hope you're all doing well on this gorgeous spring day I'm I'm attending today because there was a promise to bring a report on the waste huler rfis to this particular meeting um they the RFI um responses were received in October and now it's been five months so um definitely was expecting something today but it doesn't appear to be on the agenda so I hope it shows up in some way or another um in the last session a holler update was on each agenda um and it's a been a year and a half that the referral has been in TSO a little bit over a year and a half so um I would hope that uh an update could be on each agenda so that we can really work toward a recommendation back to the council as soon as possible just a remind Remer to this committee that the following organizations endorsed the initial hauler proposal to move to a town contracted service that would include pay as you throw fee structure and Universal curbside compost pickup the ammer Board of Health which has weigh in about three times uh to try to push the council to move forward with this the Amorous energy and climate action committee the ammer League of Women Voters the ammer common share food co-op climate Action Now UMass student farming Sunrise ammer Hitchcock center for the environment the progressive Coalition of ammer grow food ammer Unitarian Universalist Society of ammer green Sanctuary committee zero Waste Central Valley uh and Statewide organizations the crer club Massachusetts chapter and and Community Action Works um also zero waste amers was asked by the town to conduct a survey to ascertain the cost which did in 2023 and reported that the average user of USA hauling and recycling currently pays around $550 a year and that the difference between small medium and large carts is $2 a month definitely not enough to incentivize waste reduction um ammer zero waste ammer also reached out to find volunteers who could get the word out to educate Neighbors about curbside compost pickup um where to be enacted by the council and have so far signed up 80 people who were to start doing Outreach last summer we had hoped um waste reduction is of great interest to a very large portion of the town and residents want to help take responsibility while also reducing their cost so on behalf of zero waste damers please please please send this back to the council with a positive recommendation on behalf of your constituents thank thank you very very much thank you Darcy appreciate it um being that we do have I believe uh on the schedule a date for the U report to come back from not hearing I'm just checking our planning document um I think we have yes we have waste holler RFI update on the 28th of March on the schedule at the moment um but I I don't want to get into comments um back and forth between the public comment and the members so we should continue with public com that's the only it's only information okay thanks we don't we don't have discussion of uh items that come in but we will provide information at times uh so the 28th is the answer on when we have it back on the agenda which is our next meeting um Tracy morning on Hi how are you um so I'm here just to comment briefly about the um the North Pleasant Street improvements from Eastman Lane to Pine Street Meadow Street uh so I did I I also just want to introduce myself to counselor hegner I think I know everybody else here but I do serve as the chair of the transportation advisory committee and um and I noticed it made its way into your packet uh but I had written up a memo from when Tac was asked to um advise the TSO way back when I think uh councel Ryan actually sent that request tack with a proposed schedule when it would be reviewed by Tso and then everything got bumped back because there wasn't any funding there were other priorities um but just because you know there have been more and more discussions and potential projects about um individual improvements along the section and so we just wanted to get it on the record about what T had discussed then what we reviewed what we thought um so just overall um you know this project improving this Corridor is has been a a priority the TAC has um listed in terms of um recommended Town Projects for a number of years um we've reviewed number of different iterations of the project and project maps that have come to us from the dtpw uh Gilford Mor the DPW superintendent is the tack liaison for staff um so it's been you know it's identified as a priority route for bikes and pedestrians and the ammer bicycle pedestrian Network plan and um and again and back in in 2021 we did review it um we did two different site visits and uh and so on so we do we definitely support it in general we haven't looked at all the details of some of the different projects my understanding from talking to Mr Morin is that um what is proposed currently this next phase is pretty much what we reviewed um we do appreciate I mean anything that could be done to improve the safety and accessibility along the corridor is great uh it is a very high use pedestrian Corridor since it's right north of the university and additionally even since we did our review back in 2021 there have there has been additional housing built there um both the mid District housing but then also the new development that replaced North Village when we did our review that property was closed um so adding more crosswalks is a great idea when we visited we did see students you know just getting off the bus particularly and just going across the streets and currently there are some sections with very few crosswalks um and we appreciate other measures too to um the calm the traffic there so I mean some sections of that road are 35 miles an hour um which I really think that's probably too fast for a corridor that has so many pedestrians but it's not really sufficient just to change the speed limit like you actually need to design do other their improvements um to calm the traffic and so even though I know there's talk about adding the crossw with the rectangular rapid flashing beacons but even there I would just be cautious that even though they can be effective that alone might not um keep all the pedestrians safe like for example I was recently downtown um and I was I had hit the buttons across at a rectangular rapid flashing crosswalk and I was in the middle of crossing and a vehicle did not stop at all and like came very very close to my body um so uh and particularly because with the number of students there this is a highly used Corridor at night um and so you know the research shows that that alone is not sufficient that you also want to have lighting so I did recently revisit the corridor um and there are quite a few street lights on the west side of the street but when we when we were there back in 2021 and when I was there again recently our concerns have been about the east side of the street which is when you're on the University campus section of it just north of the roundabout it's very well lit but as you continue it seems sort of dark that's also the section of the sidewalk that's overgrown a lot um you know there's a lot of trees and so on so I don't even know maybe even just cutting back some of the vegetation would help with that but it's not that well lit you know for nighttime use um and so one of the things I had mentioned in the the memo is just the idea of the street scap lighting and um I think that was my main comments I mean I will also just say uh not specifically related to this but I do like to try to go to the TSO meetings but with the change of the schedule like they used to be in the evenings and now they're during the day and um I do have like two standing work meetings back to back in this time slot one at 10 and 1 at 11 so I'm actually going to depart and then I'll just listen to your recording but um thank you well thank you very much and I wanted to uh thank you and the committee for the report I thought that it was extremely helpful and I so thank you Jennifer C hi hi my name is Jennifer sha I live in District 5 and I'm a member of the ammer school committee but my comment today is my own and does not represent the school committee one of the items on your agenda today is the town manager's appointment to the elementary school building committee the charge of the elementary school building committee indicates that it needs to include a resident with experience in energy efficient public architecture engineering or construction which you have an architect Jonathan salvan a teacher or resident with knowledge of current educational Mission and function of current facilities which you have in Jonathan and Resident member Angelica Bernal and a resident with experience and effective community outreach a position I don't see filled amongst the current members and a function I don't see mentioned in the town manager's recommendation memo for Mr bru Bruce as a side note I don't know Mr cuum but I mean him no disrespect I understand from the memo that he has followed this project closely from the beginning and I thank him for his interest and involvement in this very important project but getting back to the committee charg It also says that preference will be given to parents and guardians of young children who may be in the elementary schools in five years this charge was adopted in June of 2020 so five years from then would be 2025 another applicant for the position Amber cono Martin has a in second grade in the communes program and she is a skilled experienced and accomplished Community organizer in addition she herself is bilingual in English and Spanish the esbc does not need two resident Architects at the expense of a parent of a child who will attend school in this new building and who has both deep and broad experience connecting with the community particularly with families of school aged children this project is so important to the school community and I urge you to prioritize Community engagement also please keep in mind that the member who vacated this position is a woman of color with school-aged children if that position is not filled by a resident with young children then you would be reducing the voice of parents on this committee when the charter specifically says that preference will be given to parents of young children I contacted Miss cono Martin this week to ask if I could name her in my public comment today and she did give me permission but without my being here and doing this the Tso and and the Town Council would not know that she had applied the town man manager's memo recommending Mr cuum sounds very professional and convincing and with nothing and no one to compare it to it sounds like a solid decision but it's important that you know what you would be giving up by approving this appointment as recommended I'm urging you to vote no on this appointment and send the town manager back to follow the committee charge and appoint a parent with community outreach experience thank you thank you Jennifer so um see nobody else who's coming from public uh and uh but uh what has been offered will be um before the committee when we reach agenda items and uh so we should uh get on to the next topics on the agenda and uh we have um I think several people from ammer college who were here for item four and we have item three which is the North pleason Street pedestrian improvements and uh we have Guilford moring who is here from DPW um to help with the presentation answer questions about North Pleasant we had also asked um raised the question of whether uh the Jason or Guilford would have any comments about the sign um that's proposed for uh ammer college and whether um there were any concerns that DPW had from uh the the the requested placement of the sign and whether it would affect traffic um or visibility um so I don't know Guilford if you have anything that you can say on that subject uh do you want do you want to start with a sign ammer sign first do you want to start with North Pleasant Street first um I know we have several people from ammer college and I um who are in the uh 10d list and um we if we decide that we want to bring them in um maybe it would make sense to just uh have that convers that discussion for first is that agreeable to the committee anybody objects otherwise I think we'll just go we'll do that first no one's raised their hand to say that they have a problem is there anything that um PW has to comment on uh we've worked with a college on the sign they've kind of proposed this and we've talked to them about how to do it they've also worked with the state do to get some of the work in the sidewalk and some of the other things done before the sign was installed so the college has been uh the college in the town or DPW has talked quite a bit about this um we think that the way it's laid out is fine with the public way there's not an issue we see there's no issues with sight distances or anything like that um so we're completely on board with that what they propos um we don't do the uh aesthetic thing uh so that is for someone else to comment on oh you may have already said this but there are two representatives from ammer college in the audience if you are interested in talking to them directly yes um do we want to bring them in is uh is that agreeable to the committee I think not his head so going bring uh is it I know Sarah is one and I believe Seth yeah Seth y hello everyone good morning morning sorry I'm just I was actually in another meeting scheduled at the same time so I was waiting till it came up on the agenda but I'm here I'm Sor did we mess you up by uh recognizing you in the audience no no I I had two zooms going on at the same time I which was I had one on my phone and one on my computer so I could try to pay attention um okay Paul say that was just what you George you have your hand up yeah I just thought we'd try to focus this a bit I have absolutely no objections to this I've already made that public a number of times but we are committee and we've been given uh one or two questions from other counselors and my colleagues can also speak up but my recollection is the two concerns that were raised and I'm just passing these on they're not my concerns one has to do with the size of the sign one counselor felt it was too large um I don't know what to say about that I don't know if DPW has any thoughts on that I don't um and the second had do said felt it was more substantial which had to do whether the sign at the size it is in the location might obscure driver's vision when they're making turns at that intersection I didn't quite understand that question at the time maybe someone on the committee has a better sense of what that was about but that was the other question whether the sign would pose any kind of visibility issue for people making turns and as I said the other issue had to do with the size of the sign which perhaps those two could be seen as somewhat related um these are not my concerns but I was curious whether DPW or the ammer college people had any thoughts on the VIS disability issue um and those are the only two that I recall um uh other than uh uh well the colleagues can speak for themselves but those are the only two that I can think of and I really would like this to move along if we can yeah I think the other question I ask Guilford or Seth about U whether any trees are affected whether we'd have to take any uh trees out I I can start if you want with the yes so from the from the standpoint of how the sign fits into surrounding as far as size goes um we didn't really look at that but as far as how it affects the operations in the public way the size has no impact on that whatsoever um the biggest issue would be sight distances if you couldn't see around the corner um the site distances are fine when you're stopped at the traffic signal you can see before you make your movement when the light changes and if you're making a right turn on red you can see around the sign as well um there's no impact the sign has no impact whatsoever on site distances from our standpoint so we are okay with the size and that impact on the corner there and we have also studied the um sight lines since the town council meeting so by by standing I went out in traffic lanes and took photographs of the corner from where cars would be and um have also confirm that there isn't a sight line concern in terms of drivers approaching that corner seeing uh traffic from the other approaching corners and you said and there are no significant trees that would be affected as would no none of the trees are affected so George the only other thing that I can recall and again I'm seeking help from my colleagues here my I have notes from the past meeting but they're not ex extensive and of course this also is raised at a council meeting which now was weeks and weeks ago um had to do with clutter and sign clutter in other words as you're approaching the intersection from I guess from the South heading north um there are a lot of sign there's a lot of signage there again I don't see a problem with that it doesn't sound like DPW has a problem with that but that was another concern that was raised um whether there's just too much signage um given the nature of this particular sign its purpose it doesn't seem to have anything to do with all the other signs that are there and it's not anywhere near them so um again I don't see a problem but anybody so so there is a lot of sign clutter when you come from the south and you're heading towards the center of town and we actually plan to address that and take a couple signs out but that actually as you said doesn't affect the sign in the corner um but the intersection approaching from the south there is a a bit of sign clutter the state put in an extra sign State sign and we're going to take one of the old States we're going to take the old State sign out and probably take out a couple more signs that we have there aren't needed anymore to clean that up but that's totally a separate issue than the ammer college sign Paul do you know if uh there was any uh discussion in our wayfinder s about asking ammer College to put a uh wayfinder sign to point towards uh down town on the college that might be best placed on College land and um is we're talking about science cooporation yeah no the actual discussion was about putting them farther away from downtown um in terms of like uh there's one at the base of on Northampton Road at at the intersection with University Drive and finding a location there um and you know there was discussion about putting a sign trying to direct people to the downtown area um but there there is a sign there now that that the state put up I think it says ammer Center um I think that the there's a lot of signs in that area and uh it it does can get confused I think sort of rationalizing some of that signage would be good um and we had some discussion about coming uh coming West on route nine about putting a sign on the closer to the town common near um boltwood about directing people to downtown coming that direction but I don't think that was approved okay um Jennifer yeah I just wanted to affirm what George um what council Council Ryan just um stated that we're we were just asked to report back to the full Council whether there was obstruction um and then the discussion about the size of the sign um that's just individual counselor opinions but we we were asked to report back regarding whether or not the sign was uh uh blocking sight lines and you know would be a uh safety hazard so that seems to have been answered thank you S I just wanted to say on the subject of of kind of college cooperation with Town signs we um did agree when we were working this was in 20121 with the planning board to allow um some am some town of Amer wayfinding science per your package on our properties coming up uh Northampton Road toward that intersection I don't know if you've actually stall those signs or not but we as part of this kind of back and a forth we were um trying to make sure that we were both signing what we both wanted to sign and not telling people to go different ways different things and one of those uh compromises was to allow us uh a sign on our property I'm not sure if it's there or not because I think the state also added a sign we weren't expecting there too that sign uh that Seth talking about is installed okay uh councilor Ryan yeah and I'd also just like to point out to my colleagues on the committee that we have the memorandum dated August 26 2021 which points out the historical commission expressed strong positive recommendation for this prominent Gateway sign seeing it as an improvement and we have a design review statement that the board is satisfied with the design layout and location of the sign is submitted so we have DPW historical commission design review board um and I have the sense there are no more questions I for the sake of the Amis College Representatives who are here this morning hopefully they will not have to come back again and hopefully this committee will finally move on this um unless someone has other concerns which I'm not hearing um and so that's my final thought on this uh Council Ryan it sounds like you're ready to make a motion do you need helping that say that too um that would be very much appreciated Athena to recommend the council approve the ammer college request to place a sign in the public way on the south comment at the corner of South Pleasant Street and route nine that is my motion thank you Athena second second second okay there's been motion made in seconded is there any further discussion seeing no request for other discussion um take vote and uh start with uh up hegner yes and uh George Ryan hi Jennifer yes and I'll vote Yes so it's 4 to zero uh we will um the motion has passed and we will report that back to the council I want to thank uh SAR Seth for being here and um let you go thank you everyone for your time this morning all right thank you so um turning then Gilford to the other item that we're here for that Tracy introduced us to a little bit earlier um when she was with the meeting reporting for TAC um do you have any do you want to begin a presentation or uh how would you like to go so I think maybe everybody but counselor hegner has seen the plans so if you want I can go through the plans and talk about what we're doing or I can just start talking I think since it's been so long since the council saw this it be good just to walk through the whole thing and and prioritize what you are look looking for right now yeah um do you have would you work on the entire section at once or do you going to do this in um all right so you're and I gather that uh the hope is to fund it through the the block grant yes so actually if Athena if you could bring up the plan I'll just walk through what we're what the plan is and then what how it gets staged sure do you want um the pictures in the memo or which you can do you can do the pictures in the memo that's just that those are fine okay all right great so this project has been on the DPW books for um well Pro as long as I've been here it's been on our books um this this project grew out of a an attempt to have a path a multi-use back bike path that went from the campus to North ammer and from North amst to the campus um originally they wanted it off-road um and they wanted it to run behind the apartments between the apartments and 116 there's a there's sort of a dirt path there now a cinder Path Road they call it um but that became very difficult to do um some of the apartment complexes were opposed to it because it opened up multiple um access points which they had to control into their um complexes is there a picture Athena I think we lost the picture so so this is how um this is how the project started as time went on we realized we really can't go down this path which goes on the cendra road and then goes down um under some power lines and we decided to move a multi-use path to North Pleasant Street and so that's how we started this um we had it surveyed uh Town town meeting approved money to survey survey the the layout so that was done and then we developed a concept plan which you see here um we it's been presented once before to the to I think it's been presented to the to the Town Council Council and the select board so at the I think one of the last meetings of the select board they saw it as well um It's a combination of sidewalk upgrades sidewalk uh renov ations and then new crosswalks and upgraded bus pull-offs is what we have here um your memo of concerning the public way points out clearly that the council has to approve crosswalks and major Reen Renovations uh we really don't this is we don't really consider this a major renovation of the sidewalks even though we're widening some of them um they are the exact same place they're just getting a little wider but the crosswalks are new we do have new crosswalks that's why that's probably why we're we're talking about this all the bus stops are being up updated um so that's not really a new thing as well so we kind of um so that's kind of how it's come about so as you look at the project um we're starting at this sheet here we're look we're starting at Oldtown Road Oldtown road and in front of UMass at this section of the project we're going to have a 5 foot foot sidewalk on the west side which is the top of the page and an 8 foot sidewalk on the east side of the project which is the bottom of the page so we'll go through can you can you go back up to the top of the page these two bus stops do get improved one bus stop is exactly where it was before the other bus stop never had a pull off we kind of placed it in a spot that worked really well some neighbors aren't really thrilled about that bus stop being there but since uh but that's where we propos the bus stop pbta always asks us to put the the crosswalk behind the bus stops if we pair bus stops um this actually allows the students or the passengers to walk to the back cross the road and as they're crossing the road and their cars are yielding to the students the bus can pull out and that they like that um that's how that that's why the bus stops we like we set them up the way they do with one one's their the bus stop will be past the crosswalk and the crosswalk will be behind the bus stop in the direction of travel so you can scroll down now so now we're moving we're moving north um we still have the on the east side or the bottom of the page we have the eight foot wide sidewalk five foot wide sidewalk on the other side um keep scrolling down uh that's hard to see but we still have this the same layout in here where um 8 foot on the east side five foot on the other side there's no real changes in here it's just the sidewalks are wider scroll down some more and we're now we're going past uh presidential apart presidential Apartments here still the same layout you scroll down more and now we're at uh UMass housing and we're at um Hobart Lane at this point in the project um right now there's uh an adjustment in the in the crosswalk here we moved it back we also upgraded it with rfbs um and this is one one option for this intersection with the two apartment complexes is to have a regular four-way intersection as we go down farther down the pages you'll see there's an option here to put a um roundabout in here to slow people down this is also where we push the wider sidewalk to the west side of the project and we push we make the east side of the project a five foot wide sidewalk it just it's mostly done this way because it fits better in the rideway we do have to get ride away from adjacent Property Owners but we get less ride we have to get less property from the adjacent Property Owners doing it this way so as we scroll down some more that's not Hobart that's Crest View sorry so keep going so then as we here is the section here we are the same we have the bigger sidewalk on the west side and a smaller sidewalk on the east side um at hope this is at the puffton Village so we're proposing a Community Development block grant project that will start at the South entrance to um puffton village and go north to where we stopped last year with the sidewalk work so this is the section that we're proposing for this year or next year to be constructed um it'll go from the south as I said the South entrance to Puff in North to the work we've already done um and in this area as you can see there's a new crosswalk at the there's a new crosswalk at the um entrance to the north entrance to puffton that's not there now um that will also have rfbs with it um like I said before the west side walk is eight foot wide the east side walk is five foot wide and you [Music] can okay and that's uh well that page this page is a little out of place but can you skip this page so then once we leave the puff once we leave the two driveways from puffton we'll continue working up North Pleasant Street to where we stopped before and that is in the area of fiser Street um the other thing we're adding at fiser street is a crosswalk which wasn't there there was no crosswalk at Fisher Street this is a new crosswalk um and there's our fees at this crosswalk as well so the project the construction project we have proposed for a Community Development block grant just goes from Fisher Street to the southernmost puffton driveway and it just includes that section of Road and then if you scroll down more you can see the part that was constructed last year this piece has already been done at the bottom page so that's the overall project um if you want us go up to the page we skipped over so this is not proposed for this year's project but this is an option for the Crest View Apartments and the the well it weed to be married housing it has a new name for it but I haven't said it enough to be used to it um this is a propos alternate um intersection proposal is put a roundabout in here um it would uh it it would work really well as the traffic coming method um we believe and we would really like to do it but we're not it's not in the construction schedule for this year so that's kind of the project um those are the major things we're talking about um any questions Jer um yes well a couple of questions the first was about um the crosswalks being behind the bus stops when Tracy zafian made her presentation and what's in our written report from tac they are very um kind of adamant they're that it is much safer it's been proven you know traffic experts say it's much safer to have the crosswalks in front of the bus stops so it sounds like the bus drivers prefer it but in terms of you know um measurable Traffic Safety protocols that the bus that the crosswalk should be in front so I wanted to ask about that um P pbta prefers to have them at the back so that's how we set it up for the drivers it does make it easier for the buses to actually pull out because most automobile drivers once they once the bus pulls off on the bus side and there's no pedestrians crossing the road they just do not let the bus out when you see the proposals for um Bel toown Road there are no bus pull offs at the bus stops because the traffic is so so heavy there that the buses cannot pull out of pull offs on belch toown road so it's kind of a it's kind of a tossup uh whether you can get the public transit to work better or whether you have better safety we we kind of like having them behind as well because it actually if people are using it um it does give the drivers of the vehicles a better site of The Pedestrian whereas if you don't see the pedestrian the bus is just pulled over and you don't see a car coming there are cars that will pull around a bus and try to pass and if there's a pedestrian in front of a bus and steps out and gets hit well if there's aest in front of the bus not as easily to be seen by the people passing the bus so we kind of prefer the way it is and if it's yeah Jennifer yeah I mean I this is I'm not a traffic safety expert so I just feel torn because we have Traffic Safety experts on Tac and they're very adamant that it's you know safer it's been proven to be safer to have the pedestrians in the front so I'm just trying to picture pedestrian is Crossing behind the bus would a car from the other direction see them wouldn't the cars coming from the other opposite direction see them better if they were in front of the bus if you're coming towards the bus you'll see The Pedestrian better if you're coming from behind the bus you'll see The Pedestrian better so so it's kind of a six it's kind of a tossup I've seen the stuff that I've seen the studies that Tracy's pointing to and I really they don't seem to have as much play or impact in in our area it's more there also mostly a lot of double lane roads that are looking at um stuff like that so um we have not the people who have been hit while trying to cross the road at a bus stop have been out crosswalks and they would be out of the crosswalks if they were immediately at the bus stops so um we think we have a good system here and we should keep with it we don't want to really change that if pvta comes back and says they don't want it we'll change it then but it works really well um thank you I have one other question can I ask um it was about um Oldtown the Oldtown Road bus stop guess I listened in on um number of the zba hearings when it was about a um complimentary dwelling project a special permit and the um neighborhood the far View Lane and I guess Oldtown Road neighborhood did have a lot of concerns about that bus stop is that and that was a concern about where you were going to move it to or where it was so it has the neighborhood I mean it's has there been any further discussion with the neighborhood on that because that I don't know if any of the residents from the neighborhoods are you know in the audience at this meeting they might not have realized it was on the agenda but I just want to raise that for the residents that aren't here there's been there's been more discussion we talked about sliding the bus stop farther down the road or farther north so that you could make keep the driveway where it was the concern was the driveway would move to Oldtown and it' be more traffic on Oldtown um but we actually it's not shown this because this is an old concept plan we can move the bus stop to the north and still keep our layout with the two bus stops and still keep the driveway for the apartment complex where it was and then it's there was the residents would prefer and there was no other conversation after they withdrew their application okay thank you you're muted yeah sorry sorry yes um I just had a question about the bikes are they to go on the the road or will they go on the sidewalks you'll have the option of being on the multi-use path which is the wider sidewalk or being in the road is what you'll have the choice of okay so so they would have to switch over from the West to the east at some point where you change the multi so is there a crosswalk there yes there's a there's a proposal for a crosswalk at that and if it goes to a roundabout there'll be two crosswalks okay um so yeah I mean so it would basically be two-way bicycle traffic is that correct on on the paths it would be okay pedestrians yes so that's that's a having walk the rail Triad it's uh sometimes people go go by pretty fast they don't they don't always signal but that's a that's a different story okay thank you welcome that's Ryan yeah just a couple quick things first uh coming off of what Jennifer was talking about and what's in the memo that Tac has provided us and I hope everyone had a chance to read because it's quite detailed and I think very helpful I know Gilford has seen it um the bus stop location issue I think looking at what the map show us today and listening to Guilford I can see that that probably way I've laid it out makes the most sense I would think the that the fact that each of these crosswalks would have flashing lights I forget the r you know there's some four-letter acronym that you guys use R RFB yeah can't anyway they would be at all these locations so I would think the lights first of all would be crucial it's a two-lane road um other traffic cing I really like the idea of the roundabout um not that it would impact all of the crosswalks obviously but anything to calm traffic on that stretch perhaps eventually we could look at even lowering the speed limit um so I think I see the challenge that Guilford faces and I think the solution they offer is probably the the best that we can do and I think there are other factors that actually would affect safety more than the the location of the of the crosswalk um is my amateurs take on that um lighting was raised in the um the TAC memo I know there's no I think in your memo you point out there's nothing about lighting in this um but that does seem to be an important safety Factor um in terms of all kinds of things um I don't know if there's anything you can say about whether that's something could happen in the future whether um but that seems to be a concern about the lighting and uh so maybe I'll let you is there anything you can say about lightning Guilford other than it's not in the memo so we're not going to talk about it it's it's not in the concept here um okay the easiest way if you want to add lighting to this street is overhead lighting um on poles that are fed by a wire overhead wire that's the easiest way to do it um that being said it would be it would be possible to to come back at a later point and put in light additional lighting if that's what people wanted to do okay and then if you if if you could just for my sake um very briefly just go back over the staging I if I understand you and I probably didn't um you're going to be working from the Northern end from where you finish some work at the Northern end and you're going to proceed southerly and you're going to go as far as the second puffton driveway second puff and driveway and you have money for this so it's just a matter of getting approval and then proceeding with the work it it's being submitted as a community development block grant project so if it's approved as that we'll be able to proceed and when do you think that might happen if assuming it's approved is a cdbg grant when when might could this happen in this coming construction season or we're talking a year from now or it would be for it would be for next fiscal year so it could start as early as October 1st if the money comes in and we bid it before we get the money if we if we get told we're GNA get the money we could bid it and then we could start as early as October 1 we wanted to or we could wait and do it next season okay and then the remaining piece of this uh and I want to really reinforce uh something that that I think has been said already how important this project is you've been at it for years now um it's it's a heavily traveled area we've had a fatality here um and I'm really happy to see that this is moving forward and hope it can go as quickly as humanly possible but the would there then be a third piece so it's basically going to be in three stages or yeah it could be three or four stages um depending on how much money is available we could finish it in one stage if there's not enough money then we can divide it into two stages and work our way through if we if people really want the roundabout then then the cost goes up a bit Yeah so that would be an impact to the project and then I'll shut up but I I think the roundabout is a great idea um for many reasons um but traffic calming would be the most important one and I hope that if this does go forward that that could be included but um thank you Gilford for making that clear thanks welcome Jennifer yeah um along the lines uh picking up on the financing piece has the university been engaged UMass in a conversation about since this really I know it's a public road but it runs through the campus of contributing to um defrain the cost for the town so the university has been uh they actually put some money forward to help us do some other work in this Corridor this project had already been kind of laid out and we're pretty kind of comfortable and we think this is the way to go with this end of the project uh there will be some additional uh work we do mostly in the section of North Pleasant Street through campus but we may overlap and come into the section that hasn't been done yet up to um I'm gonna call it married student housing but it's not married student housing um to look at that they've set some money aside for that and we've begun talking about how to how to put that project together and look at that so that is something that is coming again but you think the cdbg grant what you the amount you're requesting would cover it's this the cdb it would cover the section we're proposing yes okay but without the roundabout that that doesn't the section we're proposing doesn't doesn't include the area where the roundabout would be so that's a that's a decision to be made in the future yes I know the university and the town are I think together uh putting in an application for roundabout at AMD and University yes you'll see those they could do this yeah they do the same at this roundabout if it because they seem to feel it helped having the University on board and helping to advocate for it with the state yes you'll see those plans shortly I believe yeah I just had a question about the crosswalks uh do do you intend to raise them like the ones that are on Route nine by ammer college or just would they just be flat because that's another way to calm traffic it it is another way to calm traffic but this is a this is the major through fair for um emergency responses um we try not to unless there's a an alternate route close by like Main Street was just right right over from ammer for College Street so you could kind of get around it without too much delay um we try not to put raised or vertical traffic calming in areas which is going to have a lot of ambulance and fire apparatuses moving on them fair enough so uh a lot of the questions that I had had been posed Now by other members of the committee so thank you um the one thing one of the things that was raised in the TAC memo was the question of about lighting specifically at the crosswalks that um just the flashing lights alone uh are not adequate always to provide safety is there any thought to at least doing limited Lighting in those sections even though as I've looked at it there are other sections where there's uh lighting that could be a problem for safety um and this light and this one there's not but it's not a issue if we just look at the crosswalks and look at lighting that's something we can do pretty pretty easily and we do throughout the town so we could do that as we go through the project it would be overhead wire and it would be overhead uh poles if we did add a new lighting though but that's not part of the current plan and there's not funding for it moment that correct we would take the funding if we decide we need to improve the light we would just take it from the normal lighting fundings we funding we have every year and do it okay um is uh getting back to the multiuse path uh question um is uh 8 ft really sufficient for bicycles going both ways and pedestrians being safe walking so that that is like that is a a great question and people debate this constantly um one of the re one of the things that um we're one of the things we're saying here is that you know most comfortable or most experienced bike riders are not going to ride on the multi-use path they're going to stay in the road so the faster more confident bicyclist will stay there what this does is allow for the bicyclists that are not confident and that are just trying to commute back and forth and are not really the but not really the heavy bicyclist it gives them a place to be um and then but they are mixed with the pedestrians and sometimes that does cause a problem but as people get more confident we would hope that they would then get back on the road and you would be able to educate and build a better biking Community by having this one one opportunity to buy to ride on the sidewalk for a while and then when you're ready to get onto the road so that's kind of the goal um and because there is the the room for riding on the road here that that should work well if this was a bike path if this is a multi-use path by itself with no the road around we would say it needed to be bigger we'd be 12 talking 12 or 14 feet and we'd be trying to do some more delineation about lanes and so forth on the bike path so um what you're looking for is a recommendation from the committee to the Council on at least the crosswalks um and to report that we've looked at the plane as a whole yes and if you just want if you wanted to easily just say you approve the concept between Fisher and uh South driveway of puffton village and if you want to talk about the rest at a later time that would be fine um that would get us through this piece of it and then we could talk or you can say we we agree with the concept wholeheartedly and you should move forward with everything including the roundabout um the um and the request in the memo was to approve the conceptual plan titled North Pleasant Street pedestrian improvements and show uh consisting of the four pages showing improvements to the sidewalks crosswalks and bus stops along North Pleasant from Pine to Eastman Lane so the uh request doesn't include the roundabout at this time mind Eastman doesn't is the entire distance right but doesn't include the request doesn't include the roundabout so the roundabout um image that we were sent was there just FYI it wasn't actually part of The Proposal so it's the the four pages showing improvements it's it's only the sidewalks crosswalks and bus stops along with Pleasant not the roundabout okay Al do you have something yeah I know your hands is yes yes I yes so the qu the request ASA said is is all the way from Eastman Lane to Pine Street Meadow Street area um if we can get conceptual of the conceptual plan those things change over time as you get into the field we know that the construction um in case funds come available sooner and rather than come back every time we get a bit of money or there's some funds available um knowing what direction we're going to through going to in this entire stretch of um North Pleasant Street is is important so I would ask that you do the entire section without the roundabout we can comment on the roundabout but it's not part of the motion doesn't need to be part of the motion Ryan well with aa's help again I would be willing to make a motion to that effect um that excluding the roundabout um pretty much with Paul just and gilf just said um I would move that we approve uh the concept plan I think Athena could word that a lot better than I just did but I'm yeah I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off I'm so I'm gonna suggest that you move to approve the conceptual plan titled North Pleasant Street pedestrian improvements dated April 1 I'm sorry moved to recommend the council approve the conceptual plan titled North Pleasant Street pedestrian improvements dat April 1 2021 consisting of four pages showing improvements to the sidewalks crosswalks and bus stops along North Pleasant Street from Pine Street to Eastman Lane and I would suggest that um the committee's memo to the Town Council could include discussion on the roundabout but that wouldn't be part of your recommendation I so move is there a second second hegner so Bob is seconded so we have motion on the floor is there any further discussion on the motion because the other thing that I would uh probably suggest including aside from discussion of the roundabout is discussion of the lighting question that ha has uh recommended and I think that there was two questions I was just going to ask Gilford at this point are there any sections that are not sidewalked at least to some extent going in either on either side of the street or is it continuous there sidewalk on North Pleasant Street all the way from Eastman to Pine Street okay because the reason I asked that is in the TCH my was referenced to a section but that was not sidewalked when they did the initial inspection but that that was years ago no there's there's always been sidewalk some of them are fairly narrow I've driven it recently and that some of them are fairly narrow and I think that there is uh question as to whether there um is some overgrown plantings that are interfering with the sidewalk yes that's what they talk about in their memo is that the some of the sidewalk is lost because of the overgrowth grown overgrowth would that be uh addressed when when the work is done or does that need to be addressed uh through the application of the policy as they suggest um Mo most in the sections we're working on it'll be addressed uh in other sections it should be addressed through the the town's uh bylaw concerning blocking of the sidewalks we don't yeah what sections they are and really would have to come up through the inspections department I would assume yes that's how it's set up now yeah councilor Ryan anything else yeah just quickly following up and your thoughts for the memo that will go to the council I agree um mentioning lighting would be uh something to mention again the tech memo was quite helpful there um the other I thought just a suggestion to you when you write it perhaps also mentioning um the idea of further traffic calming uh steps that might be taken including reducing the speed limit as things to think about we're not taking any formal position on that we'll be looking at this issue I think in townwide fairly soon but I don't know if you'd like to mention that as well but I would love to see that area um with a much lower speed limit um given the density and the connection to the university but that's just a suggestion yeah we need to have a good discussion about speed limits is a separate issue because there's several statutes that are involved with that and uh so maybe just the word traffic calming it's a thought it's all right it's your memo I don't know what else You' do traffic calming well I can stand out there and just tell people to slow down but um I I agree that the traffic uh the idea of a roundabout would help for that section in particular as I think it has very successfully thanks to hard work of Gilford and the rest of uh our employees of getting that roundabout installed at Pomo Lane I think that has been very helpful too we have a motion on the floor it's been made in second um if there's uh no hands going up about further discussion then uh we'll go ahead and vote on and uh so Jennifer Yes C Ryan hi uh Bob hegner yes and I yes so it again it is a unanimous vote and um so with that um I I don't know if anybody from the committee has anything else while G guilford's here that they want to ask him because otherwise know we would like to let employees go George I'm not gonna let I'm not gonna let gford go so easily um it's always a pleasure to have his presence and when we have his presence we can ask him all kinds of fun questions and at their last meeting we had Rob MOA here and I think Jennifer was joining me in this but I can't it's been so long now I can't remember but uh and we may never see snow again um and it seems almost perverse to talk about it on a day like today um but it's still march who knows and it's New England um gilfred the issue rose with uh when your your guys are cleaning you know doing the sidewalks with snow removal um at certain intersections uh especially the one we were thinking of was Amity and Lincoln um they at least in this one case and perhaps in other cases too they sometimes leave the snow piled up such that if you're a pedestrian wanting to cross at the crosswalk that you have particularly at the Lincoln and Amity intersection you put in those lovely lights and I use it now all the time um but you couldn't use it during the past and maybe only snowstorm of the year because they had basically dumped all the snow right in the way and the argument was well the homeowners would come out and clear it and a there W wasn't any real homeowner anywhere nearby and B I think that's a bit much to ask homeowners to do so the question question was whether to Rob was what what's the what what can we do about that and of course he punted it to to you guys um and said he would get back to you which I doubt he did um because he's busy just like you are so since you're here the question is H what's the instruction to your your your plow folks who are doing the sidewalks and is it made clear to them that they should make every effort to keep those areas clear is it impossible to do that um it seems like it's not but what do I know so that's my question for you um assuming we ever have a snowstorm again um of that magnitude what would be the instructions to them to uh you know try to keep those areas clear is that something you could do is it I that's the question we we talk to them all the time about being well the way I the way we talk here about it is is that you know you need to be polite to your fellow employee who's doing the sidewalk plowing so you need to work in the truck we need to work to keep trying to keep it open and trying to push things away from any of the known crosswalks uh we do have a lot of new employees this year so they don't they're still learning the town we've been having a probably the last three or four years we have a lot of new employees that plowing um so sometimes it gets forgotten um they might do it the first two times and then they forget and then it backs up uh and then we sometimes most of the time we will send the snow plow the sidewalk plow out again to try to clear it or we'll send the loader to just try to clear it um so if it's really one of the bigger intersections just give us a call um and Rob can give us a call too and say this one's kind of backed up and we'll just go get it um that's kind of how it is right now I wish the guys could figure out how to do it but some of them just they forget or they get tired so better better communication when it see when I saw it happen right away I just need to get on the phone or and just reach out or somebody reach out and say please this is a problem please get on it I'm sure you will okay yeah it's kind of how it works and but again some of the some of the ones we don't we we kind of try to concentrate on the major ones we don't sure the ones that are way off in the middle of nowhere hey I would that's not way off in the middle of nowhere yeah this is a major one I have to a major major major intersection that's like that's the road out of town man that's not even a big one it's a big one anything else that anybody wants to raise with Guilford today that's I appreciate that uh you reminding us that we did talk about snowplowing because I think most of us forgotten snow I'm hoping for one more big snowstorm oh boy okay well we'll put it to the test all right we've had him in April we have Okay um thank you very much yes you gilf yeah Gilford thank you very much that was very very helpful and we will turn it back to Paul now because um I don't know if uh you have an order that you would like to present the um appointments in so as a courtesy to Melissa since she's here let's if we could do the crest director first it's the biggest appointment is that okay I think that's fine so really pleased to present uh is the new Crest director Community director of community responders for Equity safety and service and if if you haven't met Melissa I think most of you have but Melissa is our HR Director she's been here for a while now so she seems like you know but just in case because we're doing these virtually so so much so Camille theak is um the new um Crest director that I have appointed and I'm asking for your support for her appointment uh Camille bring it's a really um unique skill set where um she was a a lieutenant in the Hool o fire department and um the first uh female lieutenant and the first black female Lieutenant obviously in um in Holio and she's um had the um so she has a public safety background when she um ended her career as a firefighter she went to um graduate school at the massachus at the Smith School of for social work and got her MSW and is a licensed social worker so she brings both a public safety and a social work um background to uh the position um the um and that's and that's a skill set we you know the town had decided early on under based on this community safety working group recommendation that this this department be placed in public safety so that's something that we've really um pioneered most of these departments are plac placed in public health or Community Services areas um and we've really been working hard to build the relationship between the fire department police department uh dispatch and in Crest and that's been you know going well I think she will help um with that communication Melissa you want to talk about the process or anything like that sure I'll just say that we had a eight person committee um I think five of those people were from the community and um uh we inter I think we had a pool of over 21 candidates we interviewed eight of them and referred uh four of those candidates to second round interviews all in all we ended up doing three rounds of interviews as well as meet and greets with the responders with a feedback loop and in the end Camille came out um as a top choice I um I agree with Paul that her background in both Public Safety and mental health is unique her demeanor um coupled with that experience really makes her a choice candidate um it wasn't an easy decision because we had a really competitive pool but I think we have the right person let me open it up to the committee to see if there are any questions the uh interesting thing that I saw of course you talked about public safety and um the Fire EMS is very much a part of obviously Public Safety but it is not the police department um did you get a good feeling for um how she will relate with the police since that is uh the department that I think may be most important of the two well interestingly both departments are important uh we're UTI the fire department's been very supportive of the crust program we're utilizing a lot of their reporting um systems that they use because it it's more uh conducive to how they when they file reports we're we're logging logging on to their system because um they're experien with it they're training our um employees they um so and I think that in this town which is kind of unusual in most communities there's a mutual respect between fire and police and those departments get along really famously in our community which is not the case in most communities and that's a I think that's a tribute to the leadership of those two departments and I think she will have the an instant respect of the different departments um as opposed to being someone strictly from a social work background councelor Ryan I think this is an impressive candidate and um I think the process is also equally impressive and so I congratulate Paul and uh HR on the process and the candidate they presented I was particularly uh struck by the fact that she does have some mental health background she also has a degree in social work and I've long felt that this is an area that um um I don't know if one thinks of that as Public Safety per se but I think it's an area in which um Prest can do a great deal of work I described to Paul an incident that occurred about a week or two ago uh when a young woman came to my door um I live on Dana street she was walking up Amity street from uh the Big Y she lives in the downtown um she had two bags of groceries with her she had just done her shopping and a person who was clearly mentally Disturbed had seen her and was following her and shouting she became quite upset and so she just by accident she didn't know who I was but she Ed at my doorstep um and so uh you know that's an example of the kinds of things that happened Paul and I also happened the other day just to be meeting and a young man was standing right right outside the the uh near the black sheep and again mentally Disturbed and shouting and yelling at the top of his voice um and so we have these kinds of experiences in town and you know it's not clear what we do um I actually ended up walking down to the police station afterwards and just reporting the incident just to see you know but it's really not a police response whose response is it and what do we do um when someone is actually um being harassed or or in that way so I was pleased to see that she has that background and hopefully she'll have some thoughts and ideas about how Crest can be involved in that and also how we can instruct the public in what to do or not to do in those circumstances because I've had two now in the last couple weeks where I was personally involved my wife also has had encounters on amid Street um with another individual who also is mentally Disturbed who uh I just saw the other day often walks up and down the the actual roadway he doesn't walk on the sidewalk he walks in the roadway um so um this is you know not a common phenomenon but is one that's real so um I'm pleased to see that she has this background and I'm looking forward to um her thoughts and on the way in which press can be involved in this Jennifer uh yeah just echoing George I think it's um we're very fortunate to have a a candidate and who has accepted the position who comes with a public safety um and a mental health Health uh background so um I look forward to meeting the new press director councelor Ryan so I'm prepared to make a motion if you are ready for that I think we were ready for a motion so I move to uh um recommend that the Town Council approve the town manager's appointment of Camille theak as director of community responders for Equity safety and service second did you hear you seconding the motion yeah I seconded the motion yeah okay so if the motion has been made in seconded I think there's been plenty of discussion if there no hands going up um then I'll go ahead and move to a vote start with councelor Ryan hi councelor hegner I I Jennifer I and I'm an I so 4 to Zer and thank you very much U and I think that uh this is a somebody who's great promise and really pleased with the process so thank you so Paul back to you you have some committee appointments we had public comment on one of the committee appointments so I'll just go through them alphabetically so next one is thank you Melissa for being here I don't think we need Melissa thank you meliss thanks Melissa um for Conservation Commission uh the appointment is Rachel ller uh Miss ller is a town resident which is great and also registered landscape architect who has extensive work in the um western Mass area working as one of the principal of Berkshire design um she has followed a lot of the work of the of the Conservation Commission and um especially with a special interest in um climate change and how that's impacting some of the decisions that we're making as a town and uh individual property owners have to make as well as we take into account Rising groundwater and things like that so um so I recommend appointed up for your consideration Rachel ller so are there any questions Bob or councilor Ryan I'm ready to make a motion unless someone has something they wish toh ask or to say um I'll just say something um please Bob I'm I'm very pleased that um she's um focused on uh the rainfall events that occur due to climate change and uh it's one of been one of my issues that I've noticed just I've had to put put rocks down beneath one of my downspouts because the the rain is so bad now that it just over comes off the roof and over overwhelms my my gutters so um everyone who as a homeowner needs to you know is probably going to have to adjust something because of the rainfall so just wanted to point that out it's an issue yes but we do you have made a motion right well I'm going to make a motion as soon as you're willing to entertain it um yes so I moved to recommend the Town Council approved the town manager appointment of Rachel ller for a term to expire June 30 2027 to the um Conservation Commission um as uh filed with the town clerk on March 12 2024 right Athena great job thank you second I okay Mo from n seconded and there's no further discussion see your hand is still up but I assume that's not for further discussion so I will proceed to vote um Bob I I'm going to vote I um Jennifer yes and Council Ryan hi so it is unanimous all back to you thank you the next up for something Jennifer yes I don't want I don't want to interrupt the process but I did want to make a comment not it's not directed at PA but it it's just the I wanted to state that and I just brought this up in go last term that I do have questions about the process and why the Town Council appointed committees which is the zba the planning board and the finance committee is so different than the Committees members that are appointed by the town manager in that the council committees it's all completely transparent every because we would be violating open meeting law to not have it be it's the public is aware of who's applying the public sees all the statements of Interest they see the community activity forms which are the applications the interviews are part of a public meeting as are the deliberation and the selection process so I I do share the concern and I should probably know this whether it's part of our Charter and if this is something the charter committee could address but it um I don't feel I've never felt comfortable with a process where the applicants are not known because it does feel like and this is my first time on TSO so I might have thought that Tso had more information before they made the recommendation to the council but we really can't do anything other than rubber stamp because of the way it's structured so I with the elementary school building committee I I happen to know who the other applicants are because they made themselves known to me I don't know who any of the applicants were for any of these other committees but I do think there is a there is a structural problem with the process and I this may not be the committee to discuss it but I I do throw out the question is this something that the charter Review Committee it would be in their purview to address I I have that question if anyone maybe the town manager can answer that well I'm not sure what would be in the charter Charter Review Committee but so I think the difference is that with a council appointment it's a council appointment it's a public body making appointment whereas the town manager is an individual making the appointment and I can consult who I would like Athena has her hands up she's probably going to say it's not on the agenda so maybe I'll defer to her I was gonna scold you as part of my comments but that that wasn't the only thing the this this issue had come up at TSO in the past and I think what um members had asked the town manager to present as part of his appointment was the number of applicants and the um the demographics of the applicants um because the community activity forums aren't public records um and so that seemed acceptable to members at the time and that was the extent of the the conversation at the time I think that um in of course it is in the charter and the charter has a resident advisory committee and all might talk about the resident advisory committee and how that factors in but uh the charter is uh designating the appointments made by the ten manager go in this fashion and uh we do have uh all the barriers that are there including the question of whether the citizen activity forms are um matter of public record or not um that has been discussed in Prior councils because um I think there's a difference in how Northampton has deal deal dealt with it in the similar they um I think their citizen activity forms um explicitly say on them that they are not um that they are um open to the public they are public records are do not um so there's a whole lot of issues that fall there I do do think that uh the point that is not on the agenda we probably ought to not get into a big discussion about it today but if we want to talk about that issue place it on the future agenda Jennifer or yeah no I would like to place on the future agenda because I have more questions so your hand is still up did you have anything more you want to say on this just one other quick point so because the town manager um the town manager can convene any committee to advise him and as long as his decision the decision rests solely with the town manager those any committee or group that advises the town manager isn't subject to the open meeting law so with that uh we're on to the next uh okay thank you Andy so I'll go to design reviewed board uh the appoint the uh appointment subject to your um approval is Karen Bloom of 27 Tanglewood Road to do one thing I happen to be married to Karen so I need to uh Athena can you place me in the audience so for the the for the public and for the rest of the committee to know U Paul is now about to make his recommendation it happens to be uh one of our uh counselors um spouse and so that's why Bob was asked to be to step out of the meeting for this one discussion which I did not know until just now so um Miss Bloom is um Miss Bloom is um has a a keen sense of design that she has communicated when we do were doing the interviews um she has a strong appreciation for the town's history and Community Values and um level of public engagement uh she's um she doesn't have a direct design background but she has um a family history with some pretty impressive um family members who are uh Architects and things like that um but what she communicated to us mostly was about the need her interest in looking at design from a person's point of view in terms of how public design uh impacts residents who are walking down the street or um and how it makes you feel so she was a a strong candidate and um so I made her appointment subject to your approval tell answer questions from all counselors councelor Ryan um I wasn't aware of the connection but that's not relevant really when I looked at this Paul the only thought I looked at the charge we do get a fair amount of information by the way um when Paul makes these um these uh appointments or when he brings them to us um and one of the key elements is the charge and that probably will come up in a minute later in another um issue but um the composition of this body is is spelled out in the charge and as I know Paul knows well it it it says the two of the members should be registered Architects Landscape Architects or persons with equivalent professional training and so um that was going to be my qu it is my question actually and I guess Paul your answer is that this is someone who has personal familial uh experience but actually has no professional training is that is that a fair correct description of the candidate okay correct but I think there are other people on the committee do who have that experience uh the person whose teach she is taking does not have is does not have professional training either okay okay all right okay thank you well actually I'm prepared to make a motion then um did you have a question so no I just um that we I just was responding to George I agree that we do receive a lot of information as to the qualifications of the candidate being recommended but what we don't know in the process is who else was an applicant so um when George can ran you want to yeah I'm going to move to recommend that the Town Council approve the town manager appointment of Karen Bloom for a term to expire on June 30 2025 to the design review board um as filed with the town clerk on February 27 2024 second motion made and seconded let's see request for further discussion um I will vote Yes uh councelor Ryan yes and Jennifer yes okay with that I think Tina can bring Bob back into the room into the meeting and then Paul can make the next presentation as soon as he's back in okay Paul back to you thank you thank you so next appointment is the elementary school building committee I'm appointing Bruce of 159 Pine Street um and um so Mr is an a a uh architect who has um attended pretty much every elementary school committee building committee meeting since since it began um and he is a well-known architect uh in town who is now retired um and in my memo I talk about the what the committee needs at this moment in time and the in terms of the process we had the chair of the school building committee who is councelor Shane myself and a member of the resident advisory committee um conduct the interviews um and one of the considerations we were looked at is was in terms of what is needed at this moment in time and right now we are through the public engagement part that that has already been uh completed we are um in the process of building we're letting the the contract the um contract go and there this a complicated building and Mr is a um has advanced knowledge about uh Net Zero buildings U being one of the leaders in the Nation on this knowledge um and so we really are focused on um building materials um and the and the climate um um um features that we're putting into this build including geothermal um so right now our sense was that this this committee really needed the support of building and and energy expertise which is why I've appointed Bruce so um Jennifer um yeah so I'm I've served with um Bruce for a number of years on the local historic district commission I have fully supported him for the planning board I have nothing but respect and high regard um for Mr cuum but I did want to ask do you because it came up in public comment in terms of a parent that perspective being on the committee if you could respond to that please yeah so we have a number of Educators and parents um on the commit let me just see if I can pull up the membership right now and um there are certain let me just I'm sorry it takes me a second so we have a a parent on the committee Angelica Bernell who's um who is ALS who's um involved with it we also have uh school committee Deb Le Leonard um and Jonathan salvin is also a resident member who's also a parent of of students in the district and we have counselor Walker who's also a counselor but also a parent of students in the district so we have several parents who are ready on the committee I think the other thing that I would just uh Point add in support of what uh Town manager said uh regarding somebody with Net Zero Energy experience um in my prior life on the select board um I was a chair of the committee that developed the final Net Zero Energy uh bylaw which was then adopted and U has been in place and is part of what we're doing and um Bruce was very helpful from his background professionally in advising us as members of the committee um on several occasions both uh context between the two of us me as chair and and Bruce is an outside expert and the committee as a whole um I he is quite knowledgeable about the subject so I just wanted to reinforce that uh Bob yeah I just wanted to to Echo that that sentiment I think the one thing that concerns me about the new elementary school is that we're getting into areas where we don't have a lot of expertise and uh things can go very bad very quickly if you don't know what you're doing so I think uh it's good to have that kind of experience uh helping us uh build you know through the construction phase of this of this building yeah um are there any other Architects on there no Architects uh background on the committee now there is Jonathan salvin from Co riddle right that's right just want to get that out um Jennifer um yes I I said you know my concern is more with the process but I hope that we can address that in another meeting and also a concern that I think there are some residents who bring a lot of expertise that apply multiple times to serve on our multiple member bodies and don't have the opportunity to do so so I would like to look at if the process can address that as well okay um I think that we agreed we take that to a separate and direct topic councilor Ryan prepared to make a motion I move to recommend the Town Council approve the town manager appointment of Bruce to the elementary School building committee for a term to last the length of the msba process as filed with the town clerk on February 27 2024 a second is motion made and seconded any further discussion let's vote on the motion and then I may have one quick followup before we go on to next committee um but uh councelor Ryan hi uh Bob hegner I Jennifer tab yes and I'm a yes so it's four to zero um thank you I was wondering um if there would be any objection to including in the report that we have unanimously recommended this appointment the reasons why and to recognize that during public comment we had received the question as to whether there should be an additional parent um of a current school age U student and that we did consider that and they're passing that along to the council that that was an issue that had been raised in public comment I will include that in the report and I of course um try to get a report done fairly quickly now after this meeting and send it to the committee for um review so um PA back to you thank you so the last appointment uh on your agenda is for the Jones Library building committee and I'm appointed Alex leeva 52 North pres Prospect Street um for this committee Alex um was a member of the committee um when she was a member of the board of Library Trust es when her term ended her term as a member of the committee um Ended as well um but she has extensive experience has worked really hard on this project from the very beginning she chairs uh she did chair the library building Library building facility subcommittee and has served on the J joint Capital planning committee but most importantly she did a lot of Outreach and a lot of work on uh Net Zero um energy for the new library um so I am appointing her uh for this position is there any okay councilor Ryan you have your did you have your hand up you me sorry um I'm prepared to make a motion I think U is there anybody who has questions we all okay go ahead then if there's no questions I move to recommend the Town Council approve the town manager appointment of Alex leev uh for a term to expire at the conclusion for a term to last for the length of the building process to the Jones Library building committee um as filed with the town clerk on February 27 2024 is there a second I'll second okay this motion been made in second any further discussion hearing none uh let go to a vote councelor Ryan hi uh Jennifer yes Bob hi and I'm and I so that's four to zero and I think that we are done with that uh with appointments is there any anything else you have to report to us at this point Paul no so we have a couple of agenda items that um we should get to and um one is um I think the next one in Jennifer you had started saying that you had something you wanted to raise about it and that is uh the request from go that if we have recommendations as a committee for changes in the committee chart charge that um we let them know and uh I think we actually could continue this to the next meeting but I wanted to at least get it out on the table today so I put it on the agenda okay thank you very much so um do you w to start did you have oh in terms of the committee any comments about I'm looking for comments about the committee charge anything that oh oh I'm sorry oh yeah no no I had a I did have a question on the committee charge it mentioned that TSO works with the colleges and universities I don't and I wanted just to I mean I think that's great but what has that ever happened and what that entails let me I'm try let me pull up the yeah I'm trying to look for that section it's under it's under the Outreach uh portion Outreach and community relations it says review and make recommendations to the Town Council on issues and measures related excuse me regarding the relationship between the town and amorist institutions of higher education thank you I do not recall the TSO has that we've ever done anything directly related to that to that because um I think the uh community in Campus Community Coalition has not necessarily been related to the work of this Committee in particular and um the U strategic partnership Agreements are Town manager responsibility um I don't know if Paul orena have any recollection different but I don't recall any discussion uh ccor Ryan well I think the fact that we haven't doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't um that's a whole but I think that's what we're going to talk about and I don't think we're going to have enough time today to do it but I think it's something that we need to talk about I don't suggest we look back to the past to determine what we should do in the present I think the question is what does the charge say what what are we called upon to do um and if the committee is willing to explore something related to its charge it seems It's Perfectly free to go ahead and do so um so this is a fairly broad statement um issues and measures um and it doesn't limit it just to the areas of CCC which deals more with student behavior um we already had an issue today and it's a matter we were dealing with related to North Pleasant Street where the question arose approprate um is there a way in which the university could be involved financially and the answer was it already is is engaged in that so it may very well turn out that that there are places where these actions this is occurring at a whole another level and there's no role for us but this statement seem to suggest that there could be and that's a matter for this committee to decide the five members need to talk about it and say well I think this is something we should put on our agenda and maybe invite someone to come and and talk to us um I think that's what it says um and so I you know I'm not saying I'm not presenting anything particular today but uh it seems certainly something that we could consider in the future um I think that also applies to a number of other things related to services in general um it seems to me that this is a body that um could invite people to come and and talk about provision of town services and how successful or unsuccessful they feel they are and it's not in the it's not the intention to tell Paul how to do his work it certainly is not that intentional at all but it is I think first of all an Outreach function on from our behalf to find out what people are thinking about the services and how well they think they're they're being served um and that could be a valuable tool for Paul and for staff members to to hear these voices um I guess you could argue they could go directly to Paul um but I think this is actually part of our job um as a kind of intermediary between the residents whom we serve and and and Paul um so I think there's a role for us here um and I'd like us to be more active in this area um if the council excuse me if the committee so so agrees um and one of them would be University relations but I think there are other areas as well I've mentioned already Senior Services as a place where I think this is a basic Town service and I don't see why this committee can't um find out what people are thinking about how well the town is doing not what we're doing but how well we're doing and what we could do better and what we're doing well uh yes I don't know that we want to go into this discussion today however um because the item on the agenda is actually whether we have any recommendations for change to the U current charge that was the go request that we're responding to and and uh so um essentially we focused on one paragraph and say we like it being there so we're not asking for a change is basically what it's for the purpose of what's on the agenda um I think that's the message Athena um I would respectfully disagree because I don't think the current charge includes um you an evaluation of town Services it the committee is tasked with advising the Council on matters that broaden participation and ensure regular and transparent communication and Outreach to Residents which which doesn't really speak to what George had mentioned uh councelor Ryan had mentioned um it also works with Community participation officers to engage the community um and advise and make recommendations to the council regarding participation in community events so again those are you know advisory roles to the council rather than asking the committee to um evaluate Town Services which I think Falls very directly within the town manager's function um so I think that if the council wanted to change the charge to include an evaluation of town Services as part of Tso's function that would be a change do you're focusing thank you for bringing us back because I was focusing on the question of the very narrow piece about the inclusion of University and not the other um Jennifer sorry oh I am unmuted um I I'll let George respond to um you know what Athena's just responded to him but I'll just add that I would like to have the committee discuss how we work with the colleges and University and then I'll let George pick up on the town evaluating how well we're delivering Town Services okay we'll go back to George well I'm just G to read the first sentence of our purpose TSO shall advise advise the Town Council on matters concerning the day-to-day provision of services by Amis government and the relations between the town and the community how can we do that if we don't actually talk to the town community if we don't invite them to come I'm not I'm not talking about evaluating Town Services I'm just talking about us being in communication with um through our public meetings with various elements of the community that are recipients of town services to just hear what their experience is like I'm not you know I'm not saying that we're then I'm not saying let's evaluate DPW or let's evaluate SE the senior center um but I would like very much to have this this committee be a place where people feel they could come and just Express to us or tell us how they feel Services how the feel the services are going um and uh for us to hear that um otherwise you know so I think the statement is pretty clear um and so I think part of the issue is how we interpret this charge and um that's what we're talking about a little bit today because if we don't understand what it says we can't really propose a change so I would feel that the way it states way it is right now gives us the Authority or power to do some of the things that I'm suggesting we do Athena I think very much disagrees um and uh so this committee needs to I think not necessarily this moment but soon sort of say well this is what we think this says um and if they agree with Athena then we would have a discussion about how we'd have to change it and we have to go back to the council and say we want you to to insert evaluating Town services I don't really see it in that light um maybe I'm I don't think I'm being koi here I think it's really about Outreach and it's about a place where people can come or we can reach out and to a particular segment of our community that receives Town services and invite them to come and talk to us about their experience and we would listen um and uh I think that's a pretty basic and important function and it's kind of what I had in mind when I help helped to form this committee back in the old days um so I guess I need to hear what my colleagues think um do they think we need to go to the council and ask for per their permission to do what I think the charge pretty much tells us to do um and if so then we should have that discussion um what do people think this charge says Andy if I may yeah go ahead um I I love that you refer to just a few years ago is the old days councilor Ryan um and it you know I I don't necessarily disagree with you I think that the the the needle that the committee would need to thread is what advice would the committee give to the Town Council about the provision of services since the day-to-day operations of the town are within the executive function in the charter so I think you know the the committee would have to figure out what but H how listening to community members about town Services could then be advisory from the committee to the council about some change because I think it would be not not advisable to hear from community members without the expectation that the council is going to do something with that with that um input um you know just listening to folks and then not having a plan for how those that input could be used I think is it can be frustrating for residents to speak to a committee and then not have some action so I think clarifying what what advice the count the committee would give to the council um would be a good first step before you start to hear from community members so that there's a a clear pathway from what the community members are telling the committee to what actions the council might take with that advice George I guess I'm struggling to to see how I can ad this committee can advise the council without actually hearing from the people who receive the services that's all I'm saying I'm saying we need to hear from folks and it doesn't mean we're going to do anything and we'll be quite straightforward I mean you know we just want to hear from various elements I mean how is what's your experience of our services and maybe the answer I mean maybe nobody will respond because they're super happy they think it's great I have U two questions then to follow up on one is that that the the sentence we're talking about currently says review and make recommendations to the town's Council on measures that may affect the provision you what is a measure is it a u you know I I assume that the sense of the word is if there is something that is being proposed in the nature of a bylaw or another action that that is what um we're uh if if a bylaw or some other policy question comes up that affects the provision of town services like um waste taller you said as the example but then that is a very specific measure it is you know the word measure is kind of a funny choice of words but it is what's there but I think that that's what was intended that's the way I interpret it um evaluation of pound services to what to the extent that it comes up is part of the valuation of the Town manager because that's where we're evaluating the services that are offered and if there was great disat dissatisfaction with some segment of town government um I think that that's where the council gets into seeking Community input about how services are being provided and the uh where the C has a role Paul first I I just want to note I have to get off to go to another meeting but I did want to mention if the goal is to evaluate Town Services you know through a community survey or public meeia I think you would want to approach this sort of um more scientifically like what what is the um goal of the council in approaching this and I think one of the way there are multiple tools that are at our disposal um that communities use all the time in terms of um surveying people who are us using Services uh public comments things like that but I think you if you if the goal is to evaluate Town Services which I think what what councelors right in referencing um I think there are effective ways to do that that represents a broader Community um that might include a public forum type format but could also include other things for people who don't typically attend forums as well and I think we we had talked a little bit about that when with with Community participation officers it just that people got overwhelmed um with other work that's on their plate okay thank you so you have to duck out we have to conclude the meeting too for our own purposes um councilor Ryan uh that suggestion then as to where to go with this yeah I think I think we want to bring it to conclusion I understand the meeting is we've reached the end of our time um you know there's there are a series of reports that are done that have been done over the years related to town services and they basically sit on a shelf um you know I find myself reading them sometimes and thinking you know do people really know anything about these um in terms of you know uh Senior Services recre a um and so forth other basic things that speak to the services that the town provides and I feel that that I'm often in ignorance and yet I'm supposed to be again advising the Town Council on matters concerning the day-to-day provision of services so I agree that under the charge it just says speaks of measures so if people share with me and we'll come back to this I know Andy but if they share with me a sense that that we have a slightly bigger role as a way as a place for for us to learn first of all about the services that the town provides and and read some of the reports that are created at Great expense in time um and then speak to and consult with or listen to various groups in town that um are users of our services simply to get an understanding of what we're doing and how's how what's their sense what's their perception of it are they happy unhappy whatever um I don't know if you want to call that evaluation I guess you could um I just am trying to get us to a point where we feel like we as a committee have a sense of what how well the town's doing the job not how it's doing it but how well it's doing it and I don't see how we can do that just through a survey and I've seen some surveys and you know I just so again enough for me but I hope we can come back to this at some point soon I'm sorry to to inter Andy um I I also have a a 12:00 meeting that I'm that I'm late for so I need to ask that you wrap this up in the next few minutes as well I will um so my uh my recollection the theme is is that uh go is not looking for they gave us a date and it's after the next meeting I don't think there's a sense of urgency from go at the moment I don't think go has heard from other committees yet and um the Focus right now for the committee is to uh they're they're trying very hard to get their applicant pool sufficient for finance committee non- voting finance committee members and Charter Review Committee members so and then they'll be focused on um interviews and so on so I don't think there's a sense of urgency about this take it up at the next meeting thank you that's helpful because I think that what George is actually pointing out is that the purpose of the committee as stated in the charge does not necessarily then flow into the next piece of the charge where it says the TSL committee shall and it um that he does what what I think that George is really getting at is that that particular piece that he's talked about on measure on uh from the purpose doesn't flow into the second section so um any counselor including counselor Ryan who has suggestions for changes to the charge that would clarify that and bring um a little bit um stren more strength to a particular issue not just this one that either on community on Town services or Outreach in community relations that bring that suggestion to the next meeting and we will that'll allow us to conclude the discussion for today and uh the only thing that's then left uh is uh uh are people ready to approve the minutes of February 1st and February 15th Jennifer yeah I had one um addition to the that I didn't see in the minutes so go ahead um I'm pretty sure it was that meeting where I had asked uh if the waste Haller RFI response report could be made a would be presented at the March 14th meeting which is today um I had requested it and I had actually expected it to be on the agenda today but I wanted that to please be in the minutes um was that on February 1 or February 15 I'd have to check I'm not is it in our February 1 have we done our February 1 minutes they're in the packet oh I didn't see the February 1st in the packet it was a late we should hold off it should be in one off the minutes um the other thing I want I urge you to look at is something that was Elsa's in the packet for today's meeting and that is um the U thing that it's a it's a chart of all of the TSO U meetings that we have planned for the next several months uh um actually through April right now and um I don't know thing I can quickly put it on the screen but it's there for you um it's in the packet and uh it is on the 28th that we put in the uh waste holler RFI and basically What U George and I did in meeting with Athena and Paul was to take all of the things that we needed to do and to try and divide them evenly among meetings so that we would uh make sure that we were balancing the time requirements and the um amount of and who we were asking to be at the meetings so that we could uh not be asking people to come to meetings every time uh thinking particularly of DPW since that we relate to them so frequently so this is what we came up with um and uh if you have any comments about it you don't have to you can send just me as an individual don't send it to the group because I don't want to have any deliberation on this outside of uh an open meeting but um you can make comments Jennifer yeah so we were told today I think the word that on the March 28th there was going to be a report on waist huler no not a report update but I want to I can we get some clarity that the report on the RFI responses will come on that date yes it is look at the fourth bullet under the 28th right because I no I'm just saying because I heard the word update on that report but I I want to clarify it will be the actual report my understanding that is the report maybe that could be in the minutes for this meeting okay so noted but that is my understanding George so can I uh make a motion then to approve the minutes as presented for February 1st and for February let's hold that off because uh Jennifer's wanted to look at the minutes again okay all right so we're not ready okay we're gon Jenifer if you have um edits to the minutes if you please send them to me before the next meting now yeah okay thank you um and then um I'll share that the our the advice from KP law about adjourning meetings is to take a motion and vote so it's very clear when the meeting has adjourned so I would advise the committee to take up that practice okay I'm gonna start by making a motion to adjourn and see if there's a second second okay uh could we discuss this please you want George you either discuss it or vote I vote I I vote I Jennifer I and bye bye okay thank you thank you [Music] Athena bye bye bye