continue so it looks like we're live I believe that you are yes and you are recording Steve so we're good to go the appointed hour of 602 having been reached I welcome everyone to this meeting of the amoris zoning board of appeals my name is Steve judge and chair of the boning board of appeals I hereby call this meeting to order pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended Again by chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 this meeting will be conducted via remote meetings members of the public who wish to access the meeting May do so via Zoom or by telephone no inperson attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means Additionally the meeting's recordings have may be viewed via the town of ammer YouTube channel and the zba web page please indicate that you wish to make a comment by clicking the raise hand button when the public comment is solicited if you had joined the zoom meeting using a telephone please indicate that you wish to make the comment by pressing star n on your telephone when called on please identify Yourself by stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when finished speaking residents can express their views for up to three minutes or at the discretion of the zoning board of appeals chair if a speaker does not comply with the guidelines or exceeds their lotted time their particip ation will be discon disconnected from the meeting in accordance with provisions of Massachusetts chapters uh chapter 48 and article 10 special permit granting authority of the amoris zoning bylaw this public meeting has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted and mailed to parties of Interest we'll begin with the Roll Call of the regular members of the zba uh Steve judge is here Mr Meadows present Mr Henry here Mr White Mr sler here also in attendance tonight is M Pam field Sadler planning assistant and program assistant with ammer and Christine brr the planning director the zoning board of appeals is a quasa Judicial body that operates under the authority of chapter 4A of the general laws of the Commonwealth for the purpose of promoting this health safety convenience and general welfare of the inhabitants of the town of amoris one of the most important elements of the Amis is owning BW is section 10.38 specific findings from this section must be made for all our decisions all hearings and meetings are open to the public and recorded by Town staff the procedure is as follows the petitioner presents the application to the board during the hearing after which the board will ask questions for clarification or to seek additional information after the board after the board has completed its questions the board will seek public input the public speaks with the permission of the chair if a member of the public wishes to speak they should so indicate by using the raised hand function on their screen the chair with the assistance of the staff will call upon people wishing to speak when you are recognized present your name and address to the board for the record all questions and comments must be addressed to the board the board will normally hold public hearings where information about the project and input from the public is gathered followed by public meetings for each the public meeting portion is when the board deliberates and is generally not an opportunity for public comment if the board feels it has enough information in time it will decide upon the applications tonight each petition heard by the board is distinct and evaluated on its own merits and the board is not ruled by precedent statutorily for a special permit the board has 90 days from the close of hearing to file a decision for a variance the board has 100 days from the date of filing for the variance to file its decision no decision is final until the written decision is signed by the sitting board members and is filed in the town clerk's office once the decision is filed with the town clerk there is a 20-day appeal period for an agreed party to contest the decision with a relevant judicial body in Superior Court after the appeal period the permit must be recorded at the registry of deeds to take effect tonight's agenda um first is approval of am minutes from April consideration of approval of am minutes from April 25th 2024 public hearings on zba fy20 24-17 Jonathan CL PL request for a special permit under sections 6.3 and 5.10 of the zoning bylaw to to create a flag lot and to construct construct a single family house on the premises at 47 Redgate Lane map 11d parcel 166 RN neighborhood residence zoning District this is continued from May 9th 20124 zba FY 20248 mathena Morris request for a special permit under section 3.32 one1 of the zoning bylaw to convert a single family dwelling into a non-owner occupied duplex with a requested waiver from the sign plan at 180 North Whitney Street map 11d parcel 261 RG General residence zoning District this is also continued from May 9th 20124 zba FY 2024-25 Ron ler requests for a special permit under Section 3325 and 3.23 one of the zoning bylaw to construct a 5,712 squ ft mixed use building with nine residential units and two first floor commercial spaces and to construct a raised walkway in the FPC flood prone conservation zoning district with the requested waiver from the traffic impact study at 395 West Street map 19d parcel one RVC Village Center residents and FPC flood prone Conservancy zoning districts we'll have a public meeting at the conclusion of the public hearing on all three items and discussion following there's general public comment on any matter not before the board tonight and then other business not anticipated within the past 48 Hours the first order of business tonight is approval of the minutes from April 25th 202 4 has everyone on the board had a chance to review the previous meeting's minutes and are there any edits or concerns that members have I reviewed them I found them um accurate and and fullsome um and if there's no comments or no concerns I'd entertain a motion to approve the minutes from um get it right here minutes from April 25th 2024 do I have a motion so moved it's moved and seconded any discussion on the motion to approve the minutes if not the vote occurs on the motion to approve the minutes from April 25th 2024 the chair votes I Mr sler I Mr White I Mr Meadows I Mr Henry I motion carries the minutes are approved um as we proceeded through these um three three special permit applications I've under I understand that the third one from Mr ler on um West Street is he is requesting that we uh postpone or continue consideration of this to a later date my understanding from Miss breast is that they they determined they needed a a waiver or at least further not a waiver but further a special permit for a fill that was not U um determined when we had our site visit so instead of taking it bit by bit he'd rather have the whole um special permit issue heard at one meeting and I think he's going to request that is that correct Mr BR yes um he's not attending the meeting tonight but he did submit a an email which I forwarded to all of you and um so he is requesting a continuation of his public hearing I think you need to open it first and then continue it so are you going to do that later I'll do that later yeah but I just wanted to kind of lay the the groundwork for the the board that we really have two full hearings that we'll deal with today um the 20 2417 and 20248 may I mention something as long as I have the floor this is regarding the uh project on um ready Gate Lane I think I neglected to include the old special permit from 2019 in the packet and so I've just sent um to Pam and to Mr judge um the uh decision the 2019 um is it 201907 I think so if we need to refer to that with regard to conditions we can do that and I apologize for not having that uh sent you that in your packet I think that some of that special permit may have been included in some of the comments but it's good to have the official version from the town thank you Miss BR yes because I I don't have it Chris I didn't get it so Steve if we need it we'll either have to go into that comment packet or you will need to bring it up because it's not in my email it's not in your email no sent it um uh yep I got it at 524 here's no that's uh that's different you can try here we go Chris we've got it I I have it okay 68 oh yes yes and it just came in mind too so good so if we need to refer to it we can and I apologize again you're not having included it no problem all right um so the first order of business is a public hearing on zba 20247 Jonathan Clay request for a special permit under section 6.3 and 5.10 of the zoning bot to create a flag lot and to construct a single family house on the premises at 47 Redgate Lane map 11d parcel 166 RN neighborhood residence zoning District um so we two things we number one we had a site visit we had a site visit on Tuesday um myself Mr sler and Mr Henry all attended we walked we met with the the applicant and his um and the engineer um Mr Sparkle we um we heard a description of what the PL what the goal of the uh applicant is to create the flag lot we walked along the driveway of the the proposed driveway uh to the flag lot we walked back through the along that driveway to the the uh likely placement of the house we observed where the um proforma um house was set up it's not the actual not a specific building um proposed for this but a a a demonstration building uh demonstration residents at that spot we observed The Contours of the land um and Mr uh clay talked about the past applications that have been approved for the fly glad in the past um we observed the the drainage and the where the drainage would entail at the end of the Downs slope at the end of the property and we looked over to the conservation land on the other side of the property line that's pretty much what we did I think in that uh then we left um Mr sler or Mr Henry is there anything you wish to add to the site visit sum you covered it I think you covered it Mr judge yeah I have nothing I have nothing to add so what I'd like to do now is to go over the submissions public submissions from the town as well as submissions from the from the public or public comments I just have to pull up the um project application report so submissions include the following um zba 20247 an application form a management plan and a project as well as a project summary uh plans prepared by B Bucky Sparkle PE theengineer dated 321 2024 which include a title sheet existing conditions proposed conditions um and details a swept path of truck turning analysis a storm waterer summary and an earth works estimation there were no um additional staff submissions that I I am aware of we also have two public comments that we've received uh via email the first is from an AB budding land owner hold on first is from uh Mr Kirk wise and Rachel Brody owners of 63 Redgate Lane dated May 20th 24 which includes not only this letter to the zba but also previous letters to the zba 2016 and I think in 2018 uh regarding flag lot applications we received recently we received a uh from May on May 20th we received a letter from an email from Yul Fier and Jennifer Mack and we received a letter um today from Jennifer boric and Stuart naifa or naif I'm sorry I think I've mispronounced your name I apologize um and that also includes previous letters to other um special permit applications for a flag lot on this property I think that's all the public comment that we received so far is that right Pam and Chris to the best of my knowledge yes so um at this point I'd like to uh ask the petitioner um who's going to present for the petitioner introduce themselves and give their name and address for the record and Pam can if we can bring them in to the as a panelist that would be good so I think I see Mr Sparkle is on the attending list and I see Mr Clay is also on the attendee list did any of them come over there's Bucky right there yeah not to panelist Jan clate Mr clate okay there we go all right Mr Clay you're the petitioner who's uh who's representing first identify yourself and then who's representing you tonight oh you're you're muted good evening I'm Jonathan clate um 47 Redgate Lane I am the property owner and the petitioner I'm being represented by Bucky Sparkle the engineer and Mr is Mr Spiel vogle um yeah Consultants I be pardon was that a question to me yeah there was did you have any other Consultants it was another person who was brought into the meeting they're now so okay no no no other Consultants all right okay and Mr Sparkle are you doing the presentation yes I am I am thank you Mr judge um my name is Bucky Sparkle with this engineer and I'm going to be running through a short um little slide present a here that covers the high points of the application share my screen and uh go through all right um let me just verify that the flag lot presentation I I failed to do one thing before I started this just brief hold on for just a second of course when I intended to start this I noted we had two we had two applications before us both of which I think will take some time it's I think think the best way to deal with this is to provide an hour and a half for each of these two um presentations if we're done at that time we're done if not we'll continue them uh but I want to give make sure I give the ability for public comment on both and I want to try to get to both so um we'll we'll try to we'll go until about 7:30 we'll take a break then we'll move on to the next matter and if we completed it by that time that's great if not we'll we'll continue it at another point so I just want to make sure that the board knows how how we're proceeding tonight before we go any further there we go all right Mr Sparkle I'm sorry to interrupt you but need take care of that ministerial business thank you absolutely absolutely uh and you know if I've done my job well it won't be a 90 minute presentation uh but you know we're gonna we're gonna go through it so uh guess I need to light things around um as indicated before the applicant and owner is Jonathan Clay um living at 47 Red Gate Lane and I am Bucky Sparkle taking care of the application and presentation this evening um I want to go over um a couple of points about the application um because this is a flag lot um we do need a special permit of course for bylaw 6.3 and um unlike the third item on the agenda we we are aware of bylaw 5.10 regarding filling of land uh which uh has a couple different triggers in order to create a a relatively level backyard for the plan which I'll be bringing up in a moment on a sloped site we do end up filling one small area um about six and a half feet however the overall the average net fill on the Disturbed area is about seven inches about 6 point6 feet um and also as indicated this is an application to create a flag lot it is to be sold so it is a demonstration house a demonstration driveway a demonstration grading plan all of which are hopefully adequately generous that the next person who comes along who applies for a building per permit under this special permit will find that they'll be able to build a a reasonably sized home and and have a reasonable yard without needing to you know return to the zba to either amend or come for a new special permit and as was indicated yes special permit 201907 was the last flag lot permit application that was approved I ran that application prior to that application 201625 for flag lot was approved and I ran that application so this is my third time for this exact same zba application uh and prior to my involvement back in 2005 is when the flag lot was created um it was at that time that Mr Clay purchased the property to um you manage manage the land as best he could um but it's been about two decades and it's time for Mr Clay to let that go we're going to look at uh the area and a quick overview uh on the image we have all the black heavy outline is Mr Clay's property at 47 Redgate Lane the solid black line This is the proposed uh flag lot and the dash black line is the front lot the remainder um the site is fully wooded at least in the flag lot area uh it slopes from west to east so it's high at Redgate Lane low as you go back and it is uh connected to town Water and Sewer you also get a sense of the density of the neighborhood with some of these other structures around uh in addition to uh that there is at least one building that is is even farther off the main road than uh the proposed project looking a little more detail at the existing conditions site um in this case Redgate Lane is at the bottom of the page and to the north is to the left um if you want to orient and I'm going to zoom in just a little bit so we get a little bit better detail over some of this and um starting off at the access strip all all of the large trees on the property have been located and you can see a sort of a dash divided green olive color line that indicates the limit of Phill uh we'll get into the grading plan and the layout plan soon just familiarizing hopefully uh the board and members of the public with the property um the the site is fully wooded um and and you'll see you know where the Contours Do lie but um a decent amount of clearing will be happening in order to construct the proposed residence we also do have one location of a soil test hole that was done to help us determine what the most appropriate storm water management configuration would be and now to look at the the site itself I'm going to similarly zoom in to the access strip first where um we have Town Water and Sewer so the utilities you know red being electric green would be the s sanitary line which will be a pumped system because it is uh the site is much lower than the road the municipal sewer is in that deep so we will be needing to pump up to it um and we have also the uh water line that comes in we have the first 50 feet of the driveway at 5% slope and then we make it um at 10% grade which is really about as as steep as we can get um and moving into the site itself uh once we get to the open building area of the lot uh the driveway grade levels out so there's a level parking area that has access to a proposed garage now this is a sample house footprint the the darker area is 2,800 square feet so it's it's a it's a fairly large size um just indicated you know for you know demonstration purposes and um in this case it does have a ities like decks and a porch that are fairly common to to most residential construction we do propose um maybe a 40 by 60 backyard relatively level area and because it's um all on a slope and we have to level off for the driveway in the backyard there's a decent amount of fill required this is the area where we exceed 5et of fill in a 2,000t area and you'll see a little more detail of that at the on the last slide and at The Far Side the east side of the property we have the storm water management area which is um you know normally not required for an anr lot but this is a flag lot and the special permits do require some consideration for storm water management so the way this system works is 100% of the new impious area of the driveway in the house ends up um in this Basin there's a sale that runs along the back lot line that helps drag will capture water and and send it northward into the Basin it's about a th000 squ foot footprint it has a volume of about 870 some cubic feet it is an infiltration system which means that um as water comes in it actually does have the opportunity to soak into the ground so um for the larger storm events that this can manage it will actually infiltrate um over, 1500 cubic feet of water into the ground which means that this site is actually going to discharge uh far less water in the developed condition with this storm water management than the current undeveloped condition because there's nothing to slow the water down uh other features that are important and which have been you know just automatically added in because this is not the first go around for this application we' we've definitely heard from uh the neighbors um in the past of course you know time changes neighbors change opinions change I'm very well interested in hearing the perspectives um I haven't received any of those public comments myself or at least not been able to review them um but we have added screening so um these green areas are strategically located buffers between the existing homes say at 7 63 and 75 Redgate and uh over at 60 Maplewood so these are a minimum 10t tall uh every green so year round vegetated buffer um on the west and I guess on the north and west side of the proposed structure and similarly isolating from 47 Redgate is another 10 foot tall vegetative buffer that is going to make this uh structure uh far far less impactful on the abuts and then one of the things that came out of the last time we went around was uh that the residents here were not very excited about you know a new driveway going down you know off the edge of their property so as from their house screening this is a six foot tall wall which is generally adequate to handle most vehicular Vehicles so that we're not um you know bringing the additional sort of glare and lights up and down a driveway um which you know of course the current condition doesn't have but when there's a house on that property there will be vehicles that come up and down zooming back out a little bit um and I believe that covers that that gist there just a couple other things to go over and we can of course come back uh to this at any point for discussion uh I'm not going to read through all of this uh it was included in the sub midle but as far as dimensional regulations go this site is well under all of the requirements so we don't come close to maxing out coverage uh in any way we've got plenty of room for the setbacks um of course this is a demonstration building so the the the new the future owner will have to you get a building perent and still meet the the zoning bylaw requirements um but they will have no problem with coverage and there's lots of room for a house out there for the flag lot for the frontage lot with the existing house similarly the lot lines have been established so there are no violations of the zoning bylaw and we've got you know plenty of coverage wiggle room and uh floor height uh setbacks Etc and then we did do a little bit of additional analysis that um was mentioned at the beginning of the presentation but here is an excerpt from the swep path analysis where I talked to the fire department found out exactly what vehicle they would want to see to be able to come down we have no problem getting the town's apparatus to come in make a clean three-point turn without ever leaving the pavement and leave the site this is an excerpt from the storm water management U modeling software just where we looked at existing proposed conditions the addition of a basin infiltration Basin um it uh I think I mentioned most of this but uh I will indicate a couple things extra that um yeah up to a 2in rainstorm and most rainor vast majority of rainstorms are less than 2in rainstorms the site is not going to discharge any water with that new system um which which is pretty impressive and uh over 1500 cubic feet of water being recharged so if this design were say beholden to the commercial Massachusetts storm water standards uh that is eight times what the state would require similarly the so the water quality volume is is nearly five times what the state would require so this is a very robust system and of course Downstream if you this will eventually discharge Downstream down stream of this site in Basin um is about 250 fet of woods before we get into streams and wetlands uh those were the wetlands that prevented Maple Circle from being or maybe it's Maple Wood Circle the the development to the north northwest well I guess North Northeast uh that development was stopped because of the Wetland so there's not much opportunity for development down there and although it's a little bit small just say this is an excerpt from the volume analysis and you you can see the darkest blue that is the deepest fill in the backyard which is where we exceeded 5 feet of average fill in that magic 2,000 foot window um but the average overall is only 62 feet over over this um I think that generally uh covers the highlights of the application I know there are always lots of details to talk we're happy to answer any of your questions um and um I can stop the share or move on to a specific page I have a question yeah Mr Henry um so Mr Sparkle I think I read in the application packet that um this has been approved at least three times before as a flag lot and this application is almost identical except for a few changes what is the difference with this application versus the others it would mostly be the house placement um let's see the previous application the 2029 application uh that particular uh project uh the the individual bought the house but rather bought the property off of Mr Clay uh that they had delayed and they they the per special per expired but when they came back um that particular family hosted um foster children I believe uh or maybe maybe they were they adopted many children they they needed an enormous house that was it they were uh hosting eight or 10 children in addition to them so they had a very large footprint uh so the impact of that that previously approved project was was much larger they had a bigger driveway um more Vehicles it was a much much bigger house I think something like twice this size um it was really kind of enormous understandable if you're trying to get you know 10 12 People Under One Roof but uh the main change from at least that last version is that this is a much smaller project than what was previously approved and part of the commmons which I imagine you'll hear about a little bit there's concerns um and and I saw that you had vegetation added um to separate from your Butters but we did the walk through and it is very thickly settled where this flag lot is um will some of those trees that are there now still offer that privacy to your UPS well any tree that that isn't removed absolutely has the opportunity to uh uh break up the massing of a house um it is a mature and open wood does doesn't have very much low ground cover uh thing about open Woods is that the trees are 40 50 feet apart so you can get an awful lot of house in between trees um so the the trees will will add to that this particular layout um is designed to sort of minimize the expense of the driveway and the utilities so the house is it also allows for a backyard to be behind the house uh so to speak so exactly how the the future house lays on the land is going to have a strong impact on the its exact visual uh impact on the ab budding properties thank you thank you yes Mr Sparkle can we go back to the um driveway and can you widen the yes the view here yes um through the access road yep through the ACC the the stem of the pipe um stem of the flag oh oh um you got it I got it I got it okay you got it so one of the comments I noted said that earlier versions of this plan and you know I I'd have to I I don't remember even though I was on the board about the specifics of the driveway but that the driveway was closer to the to 47 Redgate than to 63 Redgate and this is a new this is a different plot for the driveway can you can you speak to that and is that is that correct and is there any ability to move closer to instead of the driveway gently curving towards 63 Red Gate and on is there opportunity for the driveway to be have a more U sharper turn in but then closer to the 40 the um property at 47 Redgate I I think I hear that um I didn't I took just stole my own Design This driveway is unchanged from the last time I submitted the cad the only thing I changed was a grading in the main building area so my recollection is there there's been no change whatsoever I do want to point out and I'll zoom in a little bit here that there is a very substantial prominet Tre that is visible from the street and uh almost all the houses up and down um Redgate Lane and this is a a 30 38 in diameter white pine tree which Mr Clay has worked very hard to preserve his his parking for his home and his his his a home office uh many years ago was catered around to protect this tree so there is benefit to the neighborhood to maintain this tree and if we bring the driveway closer to that tree that tree is a goner we did have it evaluated uh by an arborist and this layout is about the best that we can do considering the additional trenching that will be necessary um so there's there's a very strong motivation to protect that particular uh specimen so is is the trench trenching can only be can only happen on the right hand side of the driveway could it happen on the left hand side well the water and sewer have to be at least 10 feet apart um so you you're automatically basically spanning the driveway um the so we we can't just jam it all the one side got it and is that white pine currently thriving what was that is my understanding arist say about its it's likely life and how it's doing um I didn't uh actually Converse myself with the arborus that was Mr Clay he had somebody come out because he had concerns about that driveway and how to protect it um you know I I see that he has his hand rais so hopefully he would be able to speak directly to that speak yes Mr Clay uh yes I actually consulted with two arborists and uh their opinion is that the tree is very very healthy presently and it can be preserved if the excavation is done carefully and as far from the root display as is reasonably possible if we can get at least 15 or 20 ft away from the The prominent trunk of the tree we have a very good shot at having that tree preserved thank you Mr Clay Mr Meadows uh have a couple of questions uh one perhaps fairly simple which is what where does the runoff on the from the driveway go to um okay and secondly what type of evergreens are you talking about all right so the we'll start with the runoff question um I'll zoom in a little bit to the main grading plan um so we have uh ditches that come down both sides of the driveway some water is going to move to the north of the house some water's going to move to the south of the driveway in all cases the way the grading uh natural grades go and the way this plan is established this be uh path becomes a ditch it's accentuated uh once we get past the fill so it is remains uh the path of lease resistance so a lot of the water is going to come on through the north side does not leave the property similarly the water is going to come down around this end of Phill there is uh this is the far end of the Swale that is designed to bring water northward um this is the local low point for the uh entire house um so or entire property so that's where this is located and how to get to that location and as I I mentioned before during storms that are in excess of 2 in there will be some discharge of storm water from the site um far less than any of the neighbor homes are discharging and that's going to go pretty much straight to a wetland and then in terms of uh the species uh this you know I the indication on the plan is that is a minimum 10 foot tall evergreen um I I didn't want to jam anybody's future plans for their dream home into having one special type of tree there are a whole variety of trees and species and shrubs that you would be able to intermix and utilize soil type May matter you know the the amount of sunlight they get matters so I would rather that a a true landscape professional make those decisions I just have a performance requirement um such that it is it is at least 10 foot tall and Evergreen Mr Clay did you wish to speak your hand was raised I'm sorry I had neglected to lower my handphone when I spoke previously all right thank you that is hard to remember I I sometimes have a hard time not muting myself um Mr Sparkle the round circle on this um rendering is that the housing Circle and that that is uh I believe it's section 6.3 of the zoning bylaw that governs flag lots and the same for uh Frontage Lots where there in order to assure that there is a reasonably shaped building area um in addition to setbacks a standard you know side front rear yard setbacks that the geometry of the lot must contain a circle equivalent to the frontage of the underlying zoning and this circle is uh meaningfully larger Maybe by 50 ft um so it that's that's the purpose for the circle is just approved that the lot geometry does meet the zoning bylaw and Miss breast the house doesn't have to sit within the building Circle correct the entirety of the house does not have to sit within the building Circle I understand that is the latest interpretation by The Building Commissioner yes okay and Mr Sparkle why just out of out of curiosity um why have why s situate the house here and not over closer to where it says that what you know 168 over to the right um why did you choose that spot and right this this particular location um again in a lot of ways it's efficiency if you notice that you know when you come down the access strip you are you're you know you're you're right here and we want to make the driveway as short as possible and have uh as the lot really as high as possible up on the land um we did some test holes down here it's actually very shallow groundwater so the lower down the hill the building goes the more that structure is going to have to battle groundwater and if we were to put the house over here it is lower um it also decreases the opportunity for a level backyard without clear cutting pretty much the rest of the site and the backyard becomes a sidey yard but th th those were the motivations to to uh situate the property here it's also a little easier to screen when you have it closer to the lot line um because the the open woods and provides limited screening okay yeah it looks to me like it's about at the same height you go across from 65 across I mean that's not our decision where you put it just I'm interested in that it looks like it's a viable alterntive off to the side but that's not where the demonstration house is right now okay it's also steeper over here and you'll notice that the Contours it's it's twice I wouldn't I wouldn't want to be down there I was talking about over to the right over to the yes yeah over in that that exactly in that area which would be about the same height but maybe it's I'm not sure it'd be steeper but it'd be around the same height okay do other people have are there other questions from members of the board Miss fres is there anything else that we should be giving consideration to or asking questions from the applicant regarding this um I had uh sent you the um special permit for zba 201907 and the questions that I was going to ask had to do with um the fact there was a condition on that permit that said a revised driveway plan indicating the paved area being shifted toward the South property line shall be submitted to inspection services and the fire department for approval um so but I I believe that Mr Sparkle has answered the question as to why in this iteration he didn't choose to shift the driveway towards the South because of the um desire to save the pine tree so that was one thing I was going to ask um another thing I was going to ask was about screening along the north property line but um he does have uh screening shown along the north property line that was a another condition of 201907 which said you know asked about that and then um additional Landscaping between elevation 88 and 95 and I believe that he has shown that um here on the plan between 88 and 95 so he's complying with that condition of the previous permit um so I I don't really have any questions at this point another along with the driveway issue one of the comments I I heard was um a desire for some kind of a burm along the side of the so I guess that'd be the the north side of the driveway over by 63 Redgate it's the creation of some sort of burm and additional um additional screening along that side and some cases a fence temporary fence during construction have you given any thought are number one are you aware of those comments and maybe you hear in public comments are you aware of those and have you given it if so have you given that any thought um this this is the first time I'm hearing any of the public comments for this application um and as as was indicated from you know the previous conditions and we we did give consideration and just automatically offered the same vegetative Screen through here there is not a lot of space to do a burm um and I find that burms are also great ways to take the root zone of vegetation and lifted up out of the moisture of the earth and there's a very high failure rate and and usually low health for vegetation that's grown on a berm um and I don't know that anybody wants to to have a six foot tall pile of Earth here there certainly isn't room for that to to fit um between these two properties which is why we want with a vegetative screen okay anyway all right other comments from other board members before we go to public m w yeah I wanted to apologize to for not having sent the comments to Mr Sparkle and Mr Clay um you know in the rush of compensating for Rob W chill's leaving we didn't cover all the bases so um we did put them into the packet for this um meeting for the zoning word of appeals members but I don't think we called attention to that packet um for Mr Clay and Mr Sparkle So we'll um I don't know if it'll make any difference after this but we'll make sure that they get those comments or or links to those comments thank you Chris you always do a great job and I'm used to uh managing on the fly during these meetings anyway okay uh if there are no other questions from the board and nothing else from the from the applicant uh we could open this up to public comment so so for if you wish to speak to this issue uh this application please so indicate by raising using the raise hand function on your screen when you're recognized the staff will assist in in uh bringing you on live onto the end of the meeting when you're so recognized please give your name and address for the record try to keep your comments to around three minutes um and I will help you do that by starting a timer on my phone so um and then make all your comments addressed to the board and not to the individual applicant so um Pam can you bring over the first person who has their hand raised and I think that is Mary Anderson Mary Anderson hi Mary can you unmute yourself Mary there okay there wasn't any symbol on here for me to unmute I kept just banging so thank you for sending me that okay um and I did send a letter to Mr W woodilla so um it may be didn't make it to the rest of you I just sent it in today but I basically was endorsing the um comments that were sent in by other people regarding both of these my name is Mary Anderson I'm sorry for being backwards my name is Mary Anderson I own the property at 191 north Whitney Street which is behind the site that we're discussing now and my main question is uh I'm wondering is any work going to be done on this lot before it's purchased or will all the work start after it has been purchased and a new permit approved okay that's something that they can respond to after your comments but that we don't have a interactive we don't have an interactive comment and question period um the petitioner can respond to your question after your comments oh okay all right well that was basically what I was concerned for uh I'm also concerned about the water that would be coming down but it sounds according to Mr Sparkle like that won't be an issue so I think that was my main concern was the increased waterf flow when the trees are cut down and all that construction goes on etc etc and then there's hardscaping going on so that was my main concern was the water flow onto my property or the adjacent property then going to the wetlands and whether or not any work would be done before the lot is sold and a new permit acquired thank you got it so just for clarity the the applicant can choose to respond to those questions at the end of the public comment period when we come back to the applicant for response um the next hand I see is of Mr Kurt wise great thank you can you hear me yep I'm sure can um so uh I am along with uh my partner Rachel Brody uh we own and rent the uh house next door 63 Redgate Lane um I think arguably uh our property and um the tenants who live there uh are going to be most impacted by uh creation of this flag lot and then uh a house behind the you know on that flag lot and the construction process um the you know couple of General comment um I feel like there's a significant cost to a Mr wise we've lost you there can you um feel like uh you know I would strongly encourage the zba to look at this as a process of compromise um the uh clats um if this flag lot is approved uh are going to essentially get the uh the primary item that they are interested in um but that there should be significant conditions um placed on what can be built uh how it can be built Etc and that a lot of deference should be paid to uh concerns and interests raised by a butter so that this in fact is uh a compromise that allows it to be uh somewhat tolerable to those of us that um are you know going to be living with uh both the construction and the aftermath of this um I have a fairly you know a detail list that I send in as comments I'm not sure I could get through these in three minutes um but uh two things the highlights we have your we do have your your yeah thank you very much and I would strongly you know I would very much uh I would ask that the the board look at those carefully and consider them carefully um two things I'll note one uh I think it's important that uh if and when this property gets sold and a plan gets developed that uh it's a requirement that who that the P purchaser come back to the zba um with a plan as part of a public hearing not a public meeting so that there can be give and take um with abutters about what that plan is specifically and so that abutters have uh the right um to comment on that plan um so that's item number one um you know I speaking directly about the driveway that's one of the you know principal concerns is is going to run the entire length of uh the property next to 63 Redgate um I hear this um idea that the pine has to be saved uh and I'm sympathetic to that on the other hand a very simple way to save the pine is to not um construct the driveway in the first place um you know I will also say that there was an approved plan last time specifically stamped approved for the driveway pushed hard down to the southern uh uh portion of that um post for the flag uh it seems to me that uh engineering creative engineering could both save the flag save the pine if this flag lot were to be approved and shift the driveway in large measure uh if not at the very point where it uh touches 63 Redgate to bend down and run along the far the southern edge of that flag um pole post whatever however that's referred to um so those are you know I guess I will um you know another thing I guess I want to raise here as a as an issue is the building process and I would ask that um the zba consider and and uh require as part of any construction process you know very specific limitations on the height um the FL of the building the square footage of the building and uh um uh times and days when construction can happen so that this isn't just an endless uh process for the people who living directly uh next to this and that it's happening at all hours of the day and night um happening on weekends holidays Etc so again I'll close there it sounds like my three minutes are up um and I guess I I will just note that uh my neighbor Mr Kevin Gallagher was apparently kicked off of the um the zoom call and has not been able to get back onto it he's here with me uh he submitted a letter he hopes to comment but he you know is not actually in the meeting because he was kicked out of the meeting so M Mr wise um thank you for your comments um and for your attention to the time limits uh I don't have a I don't know why how Mr Gallagher was was um removed from the the list but I think he can speak if he wishes to speak he can use your mic and we could do it at this point as long as he gives his name and it's an address okay great thank you um my name is Kevin gallager 68 Maplewood Drive um I'm the and my wife Christy Anderson um are the abuts to the north and um um I also I also submitted a letter which apparently um was not presented to you I'm not sure why um I sent it this afternoon to planning at emerest to the the planning General address um well just run through your run through your points I regret that I must in your letter but give us some give us your high points so um this lot is not in keeping with the the character of the existing neighborhood um there's only one flag lot in this neighborhood 191 north Whitney and it's significantly larger it's 13 acres compared to this one which is not even an acre um further The Proposal does has been designed in such a way that will minimize the impact to Mr clate the applicant um and kind of maximizes the impact um on the other abutters the proposed house is you know tight in the northwest corner um all the trees um are to be cleared um except for um the area of undisturbed um vegetation is um along the South Edge which happens to be the um a property line with Mr Clay um now the grade changes on average may be only um a few inches but you know in some places it's more than 8 feet of fill which is quite a dramatic um change and is going to be quite Apparent from our property um and the fact that there's no actual building no house um makes it difficult to offer more specific um um comments um on the proposal um I would Echo Kurt's um request that if you do approve the the the um the flag lot that um a actual building plan be presented to the zpa that there a requirement for um uh public hearing not a public meeting with the actual building plan um and um so that we can comment on it um with also a landscaping plan an actual Landscaping plan not just a kind of schematics proposal [Music] um and other conditions that Kurt outlined in in his letter that um the permit shall have a a limit a time limit on it um and um that there be specific requirements around um the construction um when construction can take place all right Mr gallager um can you wrap up you um three minutes specific limits on okay yep you can wrap up um so um that's pretty much it um I in general I think that it's it's not appropriate for the neighborhood but if you do appro approve the uh flag lot um I think there should be significant restrictions um and the if you'd like to refer to the letter I'm sure it's in the the inbox of the the planning department thank you thank you um Mr chair yes Mr White um if I could just speak real quickly if we're referring to the letter from Kevin and Kevin Gallagher Christy Anderson that is in our packet and we've reviewed it or at least I have I think I think you're you're ahead of me Mr White I've read the other letters but we'll look at it um that's the one that came in this afternoon correct Mr White I I also have it okay well I just didn't download it I guess and I will go to my email and and pull it up I have it also yep Pam can you send it to me I just don't have it on my in my packet thank you and thank you Mr white for um making that clear Miss bre before we go on to other public comments yeah I just wanted to note for the public that it's hard for staff when letters come in you know late in the afternoon on a night when we're holding a public hearing because we're getting ready for the public hearing and um you know we can't be checking our email all the time and so I just wanted to encourage members of the public to send um anything that they have to say really the day before the meeting but if you have to send it the day of the meeting please send it by noon time so we can check our email find it and then send it along and do the right thing with it because it is hard for us to um keep up with last minute um submittal thanks great that's good point Miss bre thank you very much and we are um kind of dealing short-handed right now so everybody's working over time to get everything into the packets um we have I see two more hands up y Fier um can you please give us your name and address and speak to the issue hi uh my name is y fist I live in on 63 Redgate Lane we are renting the house from C and Rachel um we've been living here for five years we just uh extended our lease for another year um I just want to reiterate my concerns that our concerns that we um shared in the letter that we shared with you a few days ago um about the safety especially with the driveway right so we have two young kids um the youngest is six-year old he's nor Divergent um currently with the way that you know youve solve probably the side visit um the backyard is pretty self-contained right uh if there were like a driveway going through um like just next to the whole um the whole backyard that will make it really impossible for us to let him play um outside uh without like close supervision um so to that extent uh we have concerns about the construction phase and about the long-term uh plan right so during construction we really want to emphasize that we really need to have um a safety fence like that is more hard Duty like you know harder Duty than um like um evergreen or whatever because really there's going to be a lot of traffic and construction and uh trades people coming in and out and we really want to have like a a very you know physical barrier between the construction zone which is the driveway and our yard and then you know long longer term it's great that you guys added the um the the you know um proposed uh proposal added the privacy screens with Evergreens I just wanted to um clarify right like it's great that it's going to be 10 feet tall but at what point right like the I think the requirement should be at the moment that it is erected or planted that should be 10 uh 10 foot tall not like plant something wait several years and only then it reaches the 10 uh fo High uh we really need something that's in place immediately to make sure that you know safety and privacy are actually in place um and um my oh yeah and sorry one last thing um yeah just like the in terms of like the timeline right just make sure that everything um is done in a as a condensed way as possible as um you know other um comments made um thank you thank you and I see Mary Anderson you have your you still have your hand up um you've already spoken if I'm correct and unless there's and you didn't use it your all your time so you probably have a minute if you wish to speak again I don't think there we go okay can you hear okay two two quick things one 191 is not a flag lot so this would be the only flag lot in the whole area 191 is not a flag lot that's the first thing um and the second thing I'm Miss press I will just resend my letter to you in the morning and then you'll have it for your packet basically it endorses the objections that everybody else has raised to the project but okay thank you thank you Miss Anderson okay um this is the opportunity for um the applicant to respond to any of the public comment that they wish and then after that for the board to ask further questions before we go to a public hearing absolutely okay happy to do so I I took several notes here I'm going to be referring to them um I guess in order and the the first thing was uh mayor Anderson's comment wondering about if any work is going to happen prior to sale of the property my understanding is no that is not the intention um if that is not Mr Clay's thought I totally invite him to speak up and and express otherwise but my understanding is that this point he just wants to you know depart with this anr lot that was created in 2005 and uh somebody else can take the project on so I don't believe any work is going to be happening before the sale um and uh a condition of you know potentially having a new public hearing effectively means that this special permit you know that doesn't mean anything like we we are here during the public hearing process so if somebody else comes along and wants to buy a property um but they have the owner obligation to go through a public hearing process to have the exact little details uh of the the structure and the layout being scrutinized by all the neighbors that that is a pretty significant um uh a requirement for that to be and I would say you know it's the kind of thing that puts the very sale of the house potentially in Jeopardy because it means that you're not actually buying a lot that you can build on you're buying a lot that maybe you can build on and then all the neighbors get to tell you what you get to do on your property so that that seems um like quite quite an onerous uh request there um you know in addition to you know comments on you know uh you know where the house is going to be or or the details on the house you we we do do have in architectural detailed landscape plans the the town does have a set of bylaws that regulate all of these things that are deemed to be fair and appropriate for a variety of uses single family homes have uh some amount of requirements but generally you know people who own land you know they have a degree of uh sovereignty over their own property and as long as they follow the bylaws of the town uh aren't creating any nuisances it it doesn't seem reasonable for some future owner to have to do something that it is highly unlikely any other member of this neighborhood has ever had to do or would want done to them and their homes um in terms of character of the neighborhood what we're talking about you know is is you know yes it is a flag lot but the character of the neighborhood is is the homes it's the drives it's the Landscaping so the political boundaries of of properties vary dramatically all over town all over this neighborhood so the characters a single family home so it is very much within the character and the zoning use um and uh in in terms of impact to AB Butters I know in the past and I believe I believe quite recently and again if Mr Clay you know needs to correct me that's fine um I believe he offered the abuts opportunity to invest or Buy in or or or prevent this um this opportunity uh from happening understanding it it does take a fair amount of financial resources to just buy a piece of land at market rate but the the abutters all did have a chance to you know to weigh in on this and and have control over this property um and it seems understandably that you know at least not enough of them were able to to pull that off but this has not been done in a vacuum and um Mr Clay is very well aware of his neighbors concerns um and yeah in terms of having a reviewed landscape plan again this is a a single family residence not a commercial site plan um having you know performance details on the types of vegetation particularly for screening needs that makes an awful lot of sense but but picking exactly which plant by Committee in a public hearing that that seems to go beyond the pale um there it is pretty much impossible to buy 10ft tall landscape screenings U the larger the vegetation the the harder it is to actually transplant uh so you know this is how vegetative screening works you you buy it when it is small and manageable and human beings can pick these things up and plant them in the ground and they have undeveloped root systems and then they develop the root systems and grow that is the natural process for vegetative screening it's it is not practical to bring in a 10ft tall anything and stick it in the ground and think it's going to live all of that is is pretty pretty extreme um and I think those were most of the comments that uh I I wanted to address I do see Mr Clay's hand up so um perhaps he can he can offer something that I've uh not been able to add uh sure so am I recognized to speak then yep Mr Clay go ahead thank you so uh hi neighbors and uh I've wanted nothing more for my uh than and for my 32 years living in this location uh then comedy the neighborhood uh uh Mr Sparkle is correct that I did twice before offer to all you make sure you're addressing your comments to the board not not to indidual so I would want the board then to know this history I'm sorry uh that uh that yes I have offered uh the possibility to the neighbors to consult with me about the possibility of subdividing this parcel which would not require them purchasing the entire parcel as a building lot because I would retain part of it as continued screening as part of my residential lot so that it could be divided in three two or three or four Parcels which would disable the possibility of an ever being a building lot essentially I have done that myself at my own expense for all of these many years now in fact the last time the lot was sold and it was bought by the the previous buyer and when I learned of the previous buyer plans to build a much larger more obtrusive house than we're now proposing and asking to be permitted I bought the lot back from him for the purpose of continuing to preserve that open space for my own pleasure and for the pleasure of everyone else in the neighborhood and I've maintained it now for another four or five years but I have reached the time in my life where I really must conclude this and recover my in expenses for this lot it's not so much as profiteering by making profit I bought the lot back I need to recover those resources and if anyone in the neighborhood wishes to join with me in preserving the open space rather than having a house there the door will be open to them to approach me so that we can have a conversation about that thank you Mr Clay um questions from the questions or comments from members of the of the board regarding the public comments or the response from the applicant Mr sloger well I I'd like to respond to the last thing that Mr clate said it it strikes me as a bit unfair to assert that the neighbors are somehow complicit in this not continuing as an undeveloped lot because they are not buying parts of the lot when they bought their homes they did not expect to have to buy neighboring Parcels I have to presume in order to protect themselves so that strikes me as a bit of a of a disingenuous approach to try and hold the Neighbors in any way responsible for selling this lot if Mr Clay wants to keep it as an undeveloped property he simply can not sell the property and keep it as part of his existing U property and not divide it so I'm uh I'm not entirely comfortable with this approach Ro if if he had to buy it back it's because he sold it in the first place so this seems to me to be an effort to maximize a financial gain which I don't have an issue with I'm just responding to the the last part there are other aspects of this property that are in fact troubling after listening to the neighbors and that this will be disruptive uh a long driveway so close to the neighbor is with lights and traffic is an issue uh I don't know if a single family home built on this property will will always be occupied by a family could it be rented to four unrelated students I don't know I don't know if that's a restriction we can put on it but this flat this lot and this building seems to me to have the potential for significant disruption to the abutters that's it for now that's it for now Mr Meadows um I I find it difficult I for one I'm not even certain what we're voting on uh what we would be approving I I we're approving theoretical Evergreens in a for a theoretical house and a theoretical location it seems to me that this is considerably premature as far as an approval is concerned uh in the past what's come before us are actual designs for houses in specific locations um this is not such Miss um there is a process here of of approving a a flag lot and that's what that's what we're going through and it's I think Miss bre can answer the question of why we have the application before us now and to what extent um You' be able to condition the approval of this flag lot on condition the approval of this flag lot on um landscape plans or other kinds of things at this point or doing it at a later point in time coming back with a special permit or a hearing um and where things have to be approved by the the board at a later PL later place in time but in the past Mr Meadows this this lot flag lot has been approved um and so that that's that's what we're looking at and I understand I do understand your um cons confusion or or anxiety here that you don't know really what you're approving at this point because you're just approving a a flag lot and a potential a potential structure without any kind of information about that or any any specifics on the screening that we normally would see so maybe Miss breast you can kind of Enlighten us here as to the process and why this is before us as it is I think that flag lots are treated differently as you say in your introduction um there's not a precedent for each of these projects because they are special permits and they're discretionary and there is a reason why they're discretionary um often when you are reviewing a flag lot you do review a general location of the house uh location and grading plan for the driveway and a grading plan for the property um and then you uh Place conditions on the uh approval that the applicant shall come back um with um plans for the house once it's decided what kind of house you're going to build and um elevations of the house to show the zoning board and then um perhaps a landscape plan once it's been worked out so those things um can be conditioned to come back to the zoning board of appeals um there are different ways they can come back they can come back at a public meeting so the zoning board has an opportunity to review them or they can come back in a public hearing that doesn't mean the filing of a new application what it means is that um the uh there would be a need for a legal ad and notification of a Butters so a Butters would have an opportunity to come to a meeting such as this when the zoning board is a is reviewing the house and the location and the landscaping and they could comment too so it's up to you as to whether you want to have it um just be at a public meeting or a public hearing um but I think it is common that you would approve a plan such as this with those types of conditions that the applicant would come back once or the the new owner um would come back once they know what house they want to build and once they know um what the Landscaping is going to be and also lighting this plan doesn't show any lighting as far as I know maybe I'm wrong about that um and then they would show those to you and you would approve those incrementally after approving the flag l so that's uh that's how I would explain it I I wonder then why the flag light is starts with a pole on the north side of the of the plates House of of 47 Redgate instead of to the south side of it where there is no problem with a large pine tree and could not instead Encompass a an area that doesn't have the the grading or maybe it does and how that could be dealt with as opposed to a flag light that is causing some trauma to the people in 40 I can't see this very well 40 63 53 yeah is there an alternative Mr Sparkle can you elucidate on that um I must admit um we haven't I haven't evaluated personally options to come to the South I do know that this is also a heavily vegetated wooded area uh I know that putting of access through here uh would you know would substantially alter uh Mr Clay's existing Homestead um and would still require a fair amount of vegetation removal um and you know like I said this is the configuration that has been approved multiple times over the years so to to reinvent the wheel did not make an awful lot of sense to us and you know as as as we moved into this you know doing what what has worked in the past certainly made the most sense to us and and I'm I'm sure there would be you know meaningful vegetation uh disturbance through here I believe this is a heavily landscaped area um and I can see that Mr Clay has his hand up so uh I think he's probably best suited to to speak further on that at this point well yes I actually wasn't going to speak about that particular point about bringing bringing power Utilities in from the other side I did want to speak to the question of uh what would be a reasonable expectation in terms of the future of the lot at the time that I bought it or the reasonable expectations for myself or any of my other neighbors in regard to what could happen on this site this lot just as when I originally bought it and bought 63 Redgate Lane at the same time and sectioned it off I did this with the understanding that we were meeting the requirements for a flag lot of course it would need to be applied for and it would need to be approved of but in general the parameters were in place so just as I understood this all of the local owners nearby and the abutters have the same opportunity to understand this and then of course since it has been Thrice permitted everybody understood that this has been a permanent building lot and that's why we came back this time with precisely the same boundaries as before except with more consideration than a smaller house than was permitted in the past so I do think that it was reasonable really more so uh for me to have the understanding when I bought the lot back after it had been Thrice permitted that it would be most likely permitted in the future that there wasn't great financial risks to be taken since you had previously permitted the LW three times thank you Mr Clay Mr Henry you had your hand up I I do Mr cheer thank you um so while I understand the concerns of the abuts um I I do not believe that um all the ask that is that that are be made here are reasonable I I think um that three times approved by the zoning board it went through the process the lot qualifies it falls within the bylaws um it was approved on nothing has changed um I I appreciate that um there is um a bit of a the UPS may be used to there's no development there enjoy that but there's an expectation that if you own a property you have the right to do the property what you will as long as it conforms to the bylaws of the town that you live in and my understanding from reading the project application as well as reading the project application Report Draft um all that's been required from Mr clate is within the bylaws so I I I don't um I I take um I heard Mr Slover said that um how can we guarantee that any house built is not going to be rented to students um I I I don't think that's a fair question um if if if the owner wants rented to students that is his prerogative if it's zoned for that purpose I mean the one of the abuts who made a public comment is a renter they don't own the property there so it's not s saying that everyone that lives there own owns a property there's a renter who made a comment about offense for their children um so I don't think that was appropriate to say to put limitations on this um again it while I understand the whole um you know you gave the ab the opportunity to buy the lot um yes that's reasonable but I don't think you have to do that or should have had to do that um you buy a house in your neighborhood there's an expectation that at some point somebody may sell the house somebody else may move in or if there's a vacant lot next to you there has to be the reasonable expectation that at some point something may go on that lot and so when you when you move into that neighborhood you have that expectation and I don't think what is being applied for is overly burdensome to anyone again it has been before the zoning board on three separate occasions um I imagine that the people that heard those three separate applications were three different zoning panels and it was approved because again what's being requested Falls within the bylaws so I think if I read the room correctly we board members have been able to respond to ask questions that they wanted to ask at this point in time uh the petitioner has been able to respond to the questions and the comments from the public and I would think it it's time for us to move into a public hearing on or public meeting on this um we're also coming on 7:30 which we take our normal five minute break so what I would what I would propose is that we close the public hearing no excuse me we we move to a public meeting while keeping the public hearing open in case we need to have further information and that we um come back after that motion is approved we take a five minute break and come back and uh talk about um whether we can come to a decision tonight on this matter or whether we should move to the the next matter so what I'd like to do then is I would entertain a motion that we move to public meeting while keeping the public hearing open on this matter do I have such a motion so moved is there a second I I hear it's moved and seconded any discussion there's no discussion the vote occurs on the motion chair votes I Mr Henry I Mr White I Mr slober hi Mr Meadows hi okay so then what I intend to do is we're going to have a a five minute break we'll come back and open the public meeting on this matter we'll discuss whether we'll be able to finish this shortly or whether we should continue this through the next meeting and then we have another another um application we have to discuss yet tonight so I'll see you all back in five minutes that'll be about by my watch 7:36 all right see you all in five minutes see to espe our [Music] rude seen his [Music] science for for for for e for okay it's uh I see that it's 7:38 I'm a couple minutes late sorry guys um are we all back Mr Meadows is yet to come back but we no I'm here oh all right we're all here all right so now we're in the public meeting portion of the this consideration of this application and this is this is the place where the board generally deliberate the board deliberates and it's generally not an opportunity for public comment unless we need it um so here's my thinking on this is that um I I am I'm I'm inclined to think that Mr Clay should be able to um create this flag lot and dispose of his property or sell his proper sell his property to a homeowner I'm also inclined and and not because of the precedent but just because it seems to me that it's not an unreasonable thing to Wish U and to look for but what I am concerned about is some of the effects on the neighborhood and the than the abutters and I think there there are some reasonable um issues that like in the public comments that could be addressed uh by the uh either through conditions or through coming back for a special permit for the construction of the actual house as well as I think there's things that haven't been actually mentioned yet or hav haven't been specified in the application that could be that are something that the the board should look at when final approval is given or before construction begins and for me those things are I'm I'm inclined to since you have such a we have a driveway right up against a neighboring property um and you do have young children on that neighboring property it is not un to me it doesn't seem unreasonable to have some kind of a fence to protect the kids from running out into the trucks during construction period and that doesn't have to be a permanent fence but it should that seems to me to be a reasonable thing to ask it can be removed at a later point in time um also um I think Mr Sparkle made a good point you can't really put in 10ft tall um 10ft tall Evergreens but but you can we do routinely talk about the size and and diameter of the the screening that we want to put in that we require uh applicants to put in and that we they do grow and you you don't get screening you don't get 10 Fook screening right away but you do have you know four to six foot plants put in and they do grow rapidly if taken care of so I think that can be we can require something in that regard um or the the applicant could propose something that would uh give us that we don't have a something we don't have here at all is a lighting plan um and we so we don't deal at all with whether the intrusion on neighbors's property trespass of light that Etc seems to be to be um absent and something that we almost always do uh in these in consideration of not only single family homes but all kinds of homes and and multi family dwellings so that's not there as well so I think there's a few things that could be worked on either by the applicant coming up or more likely sub in the subsequent hearing before the building building permit is granted that's where I'm coming from I'm not opposed to the flag lot I am I do think there's ways to minimize the effect on the the abuts the neighbors and I'd like to pursue that with both the applicant and with my fellow board members so that's my general thought on the matter and I'd like to hear other people's thoughts last point is we're getting to 74 45 the next thing on the agenda is I think a lot of public comment I think we have 21 people in attendance right now and I think most all of those are people who wish to comment on the next application and I'd like to get as much of that done as possible tonight and I think doing all of this completing this one tonight may be difficult but if we can get a sense of where the board is going we can get some direction given to the applicant maybe they could come back after discussion with neighbors to some kind of a u conclusion that would make make providing the um approval of the flag lot application more likely so that's where so I'd like to do this rapidly if we my board members would agree Mr Meadows I I I again feel that um that this is premature um we don't have enough information that I I agree that uh that the landowners are entitled to uh have a fly egg lot and to use the property as they they wish but I think we we are lacking a good deal of information to make a a reasonable judgment as to what might be going in there um and uh to to uh go along with Mr Sparkle said if we put as many conditions on there as we need to make for the next owners to buy this they're still going to be in the same position as not knowing whether they're going to be able to build a house or not so I think it makes more sense to see someone come in here um with a with a a solid plan as to what's going in as opposed to a lot of theoretical plans as to what might go in are you saying Mr Mr Meadow that you'd you'd rather see a prospective buyer with a plan coming in is that what you're looking at so exactly okay um Mr White uh thank you Mr chair um I would kind of where I'm at is I agree with your comments um a lot of the comments that Mr Henry made um in that I do believe of course uh we need to be aware of concerns of the abuts of the neighbors and of the creation of this flag lot however I do believe that we can reach a compromise here uh I would like to see based off of this information the creation of the flag lot however conditionally put in that the new owner uh whoever was to purchase the lot would need to come back before the board uh with full plans on things you know lighting plan you know everything all the sort of things that we generally see um so that at that point we have more firm details um and we're able to like I said work with the abuts work with the property new property owner and kind of find a com a compromise through that but that's kind of where I'm at right Mr Henry so thank you Mr chair my concern is that if if we add these and and I know we say conditions but I think they're limitations um I you know it's it limits a buy pole for Mr clate it's if if you list this property and a potential buyer sees this permit and says wait a second I'm simply trying to build a single family house in a Zone designed for a single family and have to come back before the zoning board to do all these things I don't want to I mean isn't this isn't what we're doing the appropriate venue we're creating this flag lot so that mate has the opportunity to sell this property and then whomever buys the proper property goes through the permitting process just like any other person would to build a single family house in a designated single family housing unit Why isn't that sufficient well I mean the question that I think is a good question Mr Henry um the point is is that the place where there's public comment and consideration to um the effects on the neighborhood is when you grant the public the special permit for the flag lot and we can either take and if we want to consider those the effects on the community um which is part of our mandate it's either now and by putting conditions or as you call them limitations on the flag lot or we do it at a later point in time either time does create a bit of a it does diminish the attractiveness of the property I'm there's no denying that that you know you can't put but zoning laws do that generally I mean that's you can't do whatever you want on the property you have to have single family homes or multif family homes or it's commercial or whatever there's a lot of ways in which zoning rules limit the use of the property but this is one where where I think they're we're what I'm hearing from the board is not that they're going to be um incredibly owner but we're looking at at screening we're looking at fencing we're looking looking at a light plan those kinds of things that are typ fairly normal and we've done with single family homes um you know a light plan to we just while it's not well it's not um Always precedential setting we just looked at a house on a very steep a home on a very steep um piece of property and one of the issues was how the light trespasses onto the neighbors and we required certain kinds of certain kinds of uh screen screening so that that wouldn't happen we also looked at the the storm water which they have done in this case those are things we do for single family homes as well so I mean it's not that we want to I don't know that this is going to be um so we hope I hope it's not going to be so um um difficult that it makes selling of the property impossible or even owners on seller that's I think that's what we're looking at but I'd leave that up to you know what the board would vote but I think you is well taken but there's at every you know we deal this all the time with special permits is we look at the effect on the neighborhood anything from lights to noise to whatever it is to screening of of trash receptacles something we routinely do Mr slober oh you're just a little bit of your yeah I'm now I'm not yes I thought I had clicked it I'm sorry um I can support the chair's comments that the property owner is entitled to establish a flag lot that there have been other favorable rulings to establish a flag lot I don't see a big difference between a condition and a limitation they really are both uh they are they are both terms that that that Define what a property can and cannot do and I think that our mandate is to both be fair to the property owner and to protect the interests of the abuts some some points of which I think are very reasonable length of construction period safety during construction hours of of uh operation all of these things that were defined in one of the letters so I think that if the sense of the board is that we approve the establishment of the of the flag lot I can support that I think at the same time it is reasonable in order to address the concerns of the abutters and to make sure that we fulfill our mandate to protect the the quality of life on the street and the abutters that we do Place some reasonable conditions on this or limitations I don't care what you call them and one of them might very well be even though it would possibly have a a chilling effect on on the sale in the short term the sale could be contingent upon a plan being approved by the zba when they come back with the lighting and the actual dimensions of the house I think that Mr Meadow's Point earlier U that we're looking at a theoretical lot with a theoretical house with a theoretical driveway uh made a lot of sense to me this it I think if if they if a prospective buyer has to come to us with specifics or whatever panel is is there then then it is uh more credible to vote on that well defined plan thank you Mr chair if if I'm I want to read the consensus here and see what I can make a proposal for our action seems to me that it would be the best the best response here would be to continue this hearing for a couple weeks until mid June or three three weeks or four weeks until mid June during that time I think we could ask the the applicant to take a look at some of the requests from the neighbors for whether it be fencing or additional screening um and respond to those one way or the other to give it some consideration um and I think that the other thing that we could do in that time is a fairly limited set of of of requirements that would require the um a another hearing on the part of the board for things like that are not particularly honorous but for the structure on whether it's the lighting plan whether it's um if if if the grading has changed since they have to do the storm Water Analysis redo that but just a few discrete things that they they have to have approved by the board before construction can begin and that would seem to me to be a way in which the property could be sold and you'd have minimum borous restrictions on its use um and you'd have the ability to um also provide some um um satisfaction and cons and respond to some concerns of the of the Neighbors which I think is are legitimate and so that would be my and it would give a chance for potentially the neighbors and Mr Clay to come to come come to some um agreement on this and also Mr Sparkle could um perhaps give some thought to um if there has well if there has to be additional grading or additional storm water work done if there is a different sized house put on that property I mean you don't know what the house is going to be yet but if you have a dist different size different house size and you have it placed in a different spot the current um storm water isn't going to be isn't going to be satisfactory you're going to have to go back to the concom or somebody you know somebody you're going to have to deal with that so um that's not just us in the case of a house that's put on that property that would be my suggestion is that we um allow it some time for uh consideration of neighbors maybe coming to some compromise and then moving forward in in a month what is response for the board members because I think right now it's I'm not sure that the application would pass it needs four votes I don't know that there's four votes here for its current state and I don't have time I don't think we have time tonight to go through all the conditions I would like to go through consider before we vote on the motion to approve it or disapprove it I think it makes sense to continue it yeah anybody else have an opinion on that I I agree I agree all right Mr White agreed okay so let's do this um Miss bre we have um a meeting already scheduled for June is it June 15th I have June 13th you have a meeting scheduled for June 13th but I understand that Mr judge will not be available that night you know what our our plans have changed so on the 13th let me just double check I think I will be here hold on I am out of the country you're out of the country on the 13th yes um what's the what's your how about the 27th I'm free on the 27th Mr White I'm free Mr sler I'm available and Mr Henry available also okay and Mr madow you good with that yes okay I am so let's move this to the I would say we can move it to the 27th then I will say that I am not available on the 27th um next possible date would be of your regular meetings July 11th if I may suggest I'm not 100% sure that Mr Sparkle's absence I I just I'm concerned delaying this is too long delaying Mr Clay's prospects as well so if Mr Sparkle can submit something to us in in prior to that date and Mr Clay can attend Mr Clay would you be comfortable in having this meeting on without Mr Sparkle I would prefer that he be present because he's so helpful to the process um on the other hand I would prefer not to delay so there's kind of laundary in that right well here's what we should do let's go and set the date even though Mr Sparkle cannot be there and if if we find it his presence was Abs if you find it his presence and we find his presence was absolutely required we can move it to the next week two weeks we know that was that date please the date we had was which M bre June 27th which is a Thursday I'll be out of the country you'll be out of the country I'm sorry to say yes lucky you actually so I'm that's I hope it's someplace wonderful and you can forget about all the stuff you're having to do with here so um let's see so looking at this Miss brra we 27th doesn't work how about the 20th for people that's our not regularly scheduled me Thursday meeting but it's um it's a possibility how does that work for people's schedule U I'm sorry to say I I will be unavailable from the 15th of June until the 1st of July and the 20th doesn't work for me either okay um so what about the 11th of July that we had talked about previously yeah that would work for me works for me for me I'm available all right did everybody all the um CBA members said they were available 11th of July let's go with that okay just for my own edification will Mr Sparkle be available on the 11th as well only taking eight days off this summer and you seem to be hitting the nail on the head for those dates no I will not be I I and yes I would prefer to be here I also believe that I can submit a fair amount of details um as far as details are available at at this point um particularly I know stuff does a great job of putting together meeting minutes and you'll be able to identify exactly what board members are interested in seeing I can address those and discuss those with Mr Clay and um I guess wish him luck on the 11th so I what I would move is that we continue this hearing to July 11th at 6 o'clock so move second second Mr Henry move yeah Mr Henry who seconded I thought I I thought I heard I know I heard a second I Mr White it we had two people moving it and two people seconding it so it's great all right that's July 11th that's six o'clock six o'clock and one of the things we can do is work with the staff can work with Mr Clay and Mr Sparkle uh to come up with a list of things that we for our discussion tonight and perhaps any discussion that you have directly with the staff of things that we'd like to consider during that meeting and that he should that they might be able to comment on such as offence or something some other thing all right so the motion occurs the vote occurs on the motion to continue all those in favor vote I chair votes I Mr sler I Mr Henry I Mr Meadows I Mr White hi motion is the vote is five to nothing the motion carries we're continuing this in till July 11th at 6:00 thank you guys thank you very much um hopefully we'll have a resolution at that point the next order of business is FY 20248 mathena morsy a request for a special permit under Section 3.3 211 of the zoning bylaw to convert a single family dwelling into a non-owner occupied duplex with a requested waiver from the sign plan at 180 North Whitney Street map 11d parcel 261 RG General residence zoning District this is continued from May 9th 2024 um who is speaking for the applicant tonight Tom REI is here and I believe he's representing the applicant all right can you bring him in Miss Sadler right anybody else and we also have I see m morsy is also here as well okay you have you have Tom Barry as well from C riddle if you want to bring him in y thank you okay all right all right um who's well let's get the names and addresses of all the people that are going to be speaking and get that out of the way and then whoever wishes to present can start so Mr Rey name and address sure uh good evening Mr chair members of the board Tom Rey attorney with bacon Wilson out of ammer six Southeast Street Mr Barry hello my name is Tom brry I'm an architect at cun riddle architects in amorist my my residential address is 244 Northampton South Street Northampton and Miss Mory hi everyone Matha morrisy and I'm at 23 Blackberry Lane in ammer thank you all right U Mr Rey are you doing the presentation I am okay you may proceed take it away right um all right uh thank you very much so what I'm going to do I'm gon to share my screen I'm gonna talk a little little bit about the site um probably a very good segue from the last hearing because we're just down the road though we're in a completely different zoning District um and then I'll talk about the site plan a little bit and then I'll turn it over to Tom Barry to talk about the architecture then we'll bring it back talk about management overview uh and obviously you know at any point stop us ask us questions we're we're happy to answer and Mr re I think what we're going to try to do is let's see if we can have the presentation in about 20 30 minutes or so 30 yeah something yeah yeah I I don't see an issue getting through it it's and I'd like to get some public comment in as well totally yeah yeah we can we can certainly do that all right uh so first I'll just share my screen um if you can see where the cursor is the yellow highlight this is 180 North Whitney Street uh in ammer you were just talking about this property here on Redgate Lane i' I've zoomed out because I'm going to switch to zoning map so you can actually see where the zoning line is between the different zoning districts because I think it's pertinent when you look at this lot in relation to other Lots within within its zoning District so this is located in the RG zoning District uh General residence which is medium to high density RN which is just here to the north is medium density um for dimensional requirements in the RN you're at 20,000 square feet for minimum lot area and 6,000 square feet for each additional unit that you want to have contrast that with the RG which is 12,000 square feet for the first unit and then 2500 square feet for an additional unit if it's a duplex so non unoccupied duplex like what we're proposing here so you need 14,500 Square ft for uh a duplex in the RG zoning District you would need 26,000 square feet for a non- under occupied duplex in the RN zoning District so while you just had a conversation about this zoning District I do want to draw your attention to um the RG zoning district one of the other uh differentiating pieces between the two districts and I'll back up and say one more thing this site right here has over 22,000 Square ft so it could fit three units under zoning um and it would be allowed there's no waivers there's nothing else being would that would be asked for and apartments are one of the use types that's allowed in the RG apartments are not allowed in the RN also in the RG as you likely know non-owner occupied duplexes uh don't transfer if there's a change of ownership the the permit expires and a new owner would have to come back and it's a condition in your use table in your zoning bylaw uh that requires a new hearing process so when you are granting this permit assuming that you're going to Grant it and we hope you do you're granting it to the owner and the person that's in front of you you're not granting it to somebody who you don't know uh yet so this is the site I'll zoom in just a little bit so you get an even better sense of where we are uh North Whitney Street you've got town of ammer land right here you've got obviously town of ammer land off of Chestnut Street and then you've got some other um you got a a multif family it's a three unit property right here and then there's we can talk about it later several rentals um in the area non under occupied uh units in the area so that's just a little bit of the site and and context of the area what I'll do now is I will bring up the map or rather the plan so now if you can see uh my screen what we've got is the site plan for the 180 North Whitney Street project um you've got North Whitney Street at the bottom of the page the existing twostory four-bedroom structure right here uh if you recall from the site visit there is a a driveway that comes in that driveway is remaining and expanding the um addition is going to go on the additional unit is going to go on the back of the property compliant with all side rear front yard setbacks The Proposal is for six parking spaces um and some even though it's only non-owner occupied two family and does not have storm water uh requirements they are providing um a a dry well and a storm water area as you also recall from the site visit there are some um dead Pines in the back there's a dead Pine over here those are going to be removed um you'll also see from this plan that there's a relatively steep grade that goes off down um to the neighboring properties but it's all heavily vegetated there uh so there'll be sufficient screening between the back of this property and any abing Residential Properties um overall a pretty simple I mean we'll talk about the design in a little bit but overall a pretty simple site plan really keeping what's there adding on some uh sufficient parking and then building towards the back of the site Mr very quick question question sure please um so since you're talking about the parking spaces does those parking spaces anticipate guest parking they do not uh there are so we're anticipating what we're proposing is for eight bedrooms uh six parking spaces we could expand to have additional parking spaces if the board thought that that was necessary uh some of the thinking is that this driveway area provides sufficient area for guest parking and the lease provides that there's no long-term guests so you know folks coming come parking coming in um that would be acceptable because everybody there would be able to communicate well enough to say okay well park behind me and then you know I'm not leaving uh why don't you leave you know when you leave then I can leave sort of thing but no the six spaces contemplates resident parking thank you you're welcome what I'll do now if there's other questions because I'm going to move over to the architecture and the the floor plans if there's other questions on the site I'm more than happy to to discuss them U Mr chair if you want to talk about the site visit OHA you know do Mr REI thank you I am I I was I'm right I should talk about the site visit I have to go through the submissions and which I didn't do and I appreciate your reminder on that um thank you thank you very much so um we did have a site visit um on Tuesday uh again it was Mr sler and Mr Henry and I uh and we met Barry Mr Rey and um Miss morsy's father I think was also at the the site visit uh we uh walked around the property and we looked at the uh place where the parking lot was going to be proposed parking would be we observed where the the existing house um sits um we observe the uh trees that have to be removed because of of at the end of the property and the uh the vegetation towards the very back of the property we noted a house next door which looked to be a house with um um multiple cars parked next to it which appeared to be a rental housing um we also observed the was a kind of a a gentle curve to the prop to the road out in front on North whne Street turning into Red Gate Lane um and we walked the property to make sure that to assess the size of the Edition the proposed Edition and I think that was pretty much it we talked about the go briefly about what the um the goals of the application are and what that the building is but that was that was about all we did at the property I think Mr Henry or Mr sler is there anything that I missed no you did not Mr chair no I can I concur so I'm going to go through the submissions real quickly and this this won't count against the time of Mr REI or or public comments um we we've received the following applications the application form a management plan a complaint response form project cover letter zba 18 plans weed a cover she those plans include a cover sheet of floor plan and exterior elevation exterior ex and other exter elevations and a sheet by Robert lest Architects that's a SP I think that's a um site plan um we also have a sample lease agreement in addition I think there are no staff submissions although although there I think there was one comment from somebody on the staff regarding a separation of the new building from the old building for fire for fire um protection but we rece we did receive numerous um um public comments on this and I'm going to run through it real briefly to make sure that we identify each we have a letter from an email excuse me from Amy sweding on May 8th we have an one from Andrew SP Spiel I'm sorry Spiel Vogal on May 9th we have a letter from Benjamin Bailey on um May 3rd a letter from Charlene and Luke Bloomfield of May 8th we have a letter from Diana Peele May 9th a letter from uh Ellen Elena Davis on May 7th we have a letter from Jessica Kain on the 9th we have a letter from uh Joya mistra on the the 9th we have a letter from uh Maxine Oland on the 7th we have a letter from um Maya Ross on this 10th we have a letter from Miss Nancy Schwarz on the second we have a letter from uh another letter from Nancy Schwarz on the 9th we have a letter from uh Neil wesler on the eth we have a letter from Diana and Paul Peele on the 9th we have a letter from Miss morsy I think that was received today a letter from Miss Mory we have a letter from um Bruce gfin on the I don't have a date on that but that covers a a petition and signatories on a petition regarding this there were 42 signatories on that petition we have a left letter on the from the 20th from um I think it's it's yav elens Ellens Ellen vensky that's not I Mis I'm just butchered that name it's Ellen iesi and we also have a letter from uh the same person on the 17th we have a letter from Julia richm on the to the RM on I don't that's undated on my copy here we have a letter on the from the on the 23rd from Curt and Kurt wise and Rachel Brody and I think that's it in terms of letters did I miss any Miss breast or Miss Sadler I think I if I did it's unintentional but I think we covered most of them and I and I have read them all all right Mr REI excellent and I'll let me take this opportunity Pam if you could let uh Jim morrisy in Athena's dad he's the property manager so just in case there's some questions later on Jim can answer them thanks um so what I'll do now I'll turn it over to Tom uh Barry you know what I'll do is I'll first pull up these images and then Tom if you want to just walk through a little bit of the architecture um material selection decisions Etc that we can get into floor plans a little bit and then come back to management sure sure I'll keep keep this try to keep this short um architecturally uh our priorities uh for this addition were to match the character of the neighborhood um have a minimal impact from the street and to not upstage the existing Farmhouse uh and so we settled on the classic New England Farmhouse backous barn style uh to accomplish that um it's not only com common in New England it's common in this neighborhood itself uh and I think it's it's fairly clear from these renderings uh that we've we've um created this addition to be the barn component of the building we've tucked it visually behind the existing Farmhouse uh that minimizes its presence from the street um and then we've detailed the building with very simple vernacular uh detailing as far as the trim materials fenestration uh we've painted it red to to further the connection um let's see we can move on to floor plan Tom very simple floor plan uh it is four bedrooms uh three below excuse me one on the first floor and three above on the second um we have tried to make a compact floor plan uh because that again lessens the scale and impact uh on the site and on the street um if you page down to the last two pages Tom I think this does a these uh exterior elevations do a good job of just showing that the addition is is well in the scale of the existing building um it doesn't overwhelm the existing Farmhouse which is important um page down again uh so this is looking from the other side and from the street looking at The Farmhouse uh This Barn will barely be visible it will tuck I think of it as a visual slipstream just tucks right behind the existing Farmhouse do you have that I'm sorry you it from the street elevation we I think straight on I don't know that we have one straight on from the street yeah we don't have straight on from the street with with because I think you would if I may Tom I this is probably as close as you're getting because this is the East and I think what they've done is taken away the front Farmhouse because you wouldn't be able to see the addition this is that if you remember that connector piece I'm going to move my mouse around this connector right here here that's what you're seeing right here and so if you wanted you know we can always provide it um but I I don't think you'd see the the back if we were to provide the front if you will go ahead Mr BR that was my only question uh no I'm glad you're asking questions I'm I intend to keep it short and sweet this is a very simple building so let's I'm I'm finished there I'm happy to answer questions sure so Mr chair on architecture if you've got any um questions floor plan we can spend more time on that what whatever is the the pleasure of the board or we can talk my quick question is how many bedrooms are in the existing building and how many bedrooms are in the um the proposed addition sure so there's four in each um as Tom had noted you know I'll go to the maybe I'll go existing first so this is the existing here in the front that's first floor existing in the front second flooor you've got one bedroom here dining kitchen living porch and then upstairs you've got bedrooms three four um two three and four sorry and then when you come back to this proposed again one bedroom on the first floor and bedrooms two three and four on the top floor and I believe that it's you know this this new piece is a four bedroom two bath and the front piece and mathina correct me if I'm wrong I believe it's four bedroom one bath thank you anything else about uh architecture floor plan Etc from the board okay move on okay I'll stop to share and just talk a little bit about management you know way I asked Jim's here um he lives ammer about 5 minutes away he's going to be responsible really for the day-to-day management of it mathena um you know I know there was some letters from A Butters thinking it was some Venture Capital financially backed Etc this is mathena and her dad's helping her out right he's going to be the manager of this property um like I said Jim lives in ammer matina had grown up in amest it's her hometown you've got the management plan weekly trash pickup who to call in case there's an issue um we've got um the Landscaping who's in charge of the Landscaping we've got lease Provisions in case there are unruly tenants um there's a pretty strong lease that allows eviction if if there's anything untour uh at the property and then like I said I think the biggest thing is having Jim you know five minutes away if if there's an issue I think that's the the biggest piece of this is the board knows it's it's that type of management that you need so um not only is he local but it's also his daughter's property and so he's probably going to be extra local at that point um again prettyy simple not unoccupied duplex in the general residence zoning District we can we can answer any questions that you have but I don't think we need to belabor our presentation anymore great um Mr morisy just give your name and address to the to the record uh Jim morresy 23 Blackberry Lane amers in the um application I think it was you're you were referenced and said that you have managed properties before is that correct or that you've done correct yes currently I work in construction management and part of that involves Property Management of commercial and residential units and residential property here in the dist in ammer uh residential property in Northampton okay um looks to me like this is it seems obvious to me that this is um a setup for eight students I mean that's kind of what we're looking at is there any plans to Market this to families or is this going to be for uh is this principally student residents and that's not necessarily prejudicial but I it just seems to me to be was realistic in from the design of the property and the design of the addition especially what is the thoughts in Ral yeah and and Jim or Matha I'll probably turn it over to you to to ask you but I I I'm gonna first turn to Tom and ask them about the design and and how materially this design would differ you know to me when I when I see bed bath parody I think students you know when I see four bed four bath or a bath connected to a bed that's where I say oh boy you know is this going to be students this one I think is a little bit more versatile I mean I think we know the market in ammer if if it happens to be students it's could be students could it be a family like we heard in the last Redgate Lane hearing I would think so I mean as as you also know there's not the ability to not that you'd want to discriminate um and so you know there are well students are not a protected class they're uh it's still not something that we would ever suggest you know any client does so mathena or Jim I don't know if you've got you know as far as marketing goes if it's you we'll see who comes in there we just want somebody who's responsible uh or if it's like a targeted group so I'll leave the two of you to answer yeah I would just add that you know this is my personal property and we've spent a lot of time on very nice plans like this is a very nice property and so tenant selection is very important to me personally yeah and and I would add um you know well-designed well-built property attracts the best tenant and that's our goal here is is to get very good tenants manage this professionally we want this to be an asset to ammer that's our goal at the end of the day so you in your um presentation Mr re you talked about the willingness to perhaps expand the parking to eight on six so you have eight units arguably you only need to have four car four parking spaces for that but um you you probably have four you probably have eight tenants with eight cars it's likely um are you willing is there any flexibility on on increasing parking spaces to decrease the amount of parking on the street yeah MAA I think I'll I'll ask you here in front of everybody I think that's probably okay right I don't I don't see an issue there 100% yeah we're okay with adding two more yeah we can we can certainly add a couple of parking spaces Mr chair are there um other I don't want to dominate the questions from the board so this is the this is the time for board members if they have questions to to raise them I guess I would also ask what was the house before you bought it Miss Mory was it a rental house was it a single family house how is what what and have you rented it out you are you currently renting it out or are you fixing it up yep so um it was a single family historically but it was in very very rough condition um barely even livable and so we did a cosmetic renovation um and it's in really good shape now and it's currently vacant and that single family was was was it owner occupied or was it Rental do you know it was owner occupied questions from board members if there are no questions from board members or no comments I would uh turn it over to time for public comment um this is the time for the public to express their uh views on this application as I said earlier tonight if you wish to speak so indicate by raising by using the raised hand function on your phone or on the on the zoom application if you got a phone phone do star9 so we can identify who you are uh when you're called upon please give your name and address for the record I'll keep your comments to about three minutes I'll try to assist with keeping a timer going and direct your comments to the board and not to the applicant or to any individuals but keep your comments to the board so I see you yes Mr ask one question before we to public comments absolutely just for the home owners are you guys aware that there's a change.org petition against this property have you guys seen that there's a what it changed that or petition to not Grant this permit no I'm not aware of that seea so is that yes that well I I mentioned it on the on the U in the submissions but it was that's the petition that was signed by 42 people I'm not I don't know who organized the yeah petion was in one of the public comments just for that just as an FYI yeah have you have you seen that petition yeah I did see a petition uh before the May 9th hearing okay all right thank you Mr Henry Miss uh Miss Schwarz okay I I assume you can hear me yes you can hear you great this is great yeah I'm Nancy Schwarz uh I own and live at 153 High Street we are kind of diagonal abutters in the back and and I I just want to speak to the difference between an owner occupied two family and a non-owner occupied two family we are owners of a two family we've we've been here for 32 years it has worked out beautifully we are very selective about who we rent to and we've never had a single complaint about any noise issues or anything when a property goes from owner occupied to non owner occupied I've witnessed firsthand what has happened in the property directly in back of me at one uh let's see what is it 174 North Whitney it's a three family three units and it was owner occupied until 2018 and we never had any problems it was it was very nicely managed Uh Kevin Banks uh owned it lived in it uh until he passed away and then the family uh sold it and I will say that it then became a non-owner occupied three family there was never any special permit hearing that changed the status from owner occupied to non-owner occupied which kind of raises some red flags for me but I will say that in the six years or since it changed to that type of arrangement we have had nothing but noise and trouble and me having to call police at 2 am for loud parties Etc it's very hard to reach even a manager I mean I we in the middle of the night I'm looking on the the town the rental permit uh page trying to get you can't get a hold of a manager at 2 am uh it it it it's just different I will just say this this neighborhood that we picked was a nice mix of single family multif family and for the most part owner occupied multif family um and I will say that the the block on North Whitney directly in back of us in the last six years has changed from being three owner occupied single family plus one three family house to now three rental properties and I am not against two families I think two family properties are fantastic to get people get their foot in the door for home ownership It's a Wonderful way to help pay a mortgage and to build some Equity but a non-owner occupied uh Arrangement is is a totally different scenario I'll just I'll just keep it at that and I'm not against the the two being built but I am against the fact that an owner will not be living in the property thank you thank you Miss warts um Mr wise is the next person up with this hand raised no now it's adjusted now I see Amy is the next one Amy can you identify yourself your address hi can you hear me y hi I'm sorry I'm Amy sweding I live at 179 right across the street I'm sorry I'm at my son's graduation dinner so I'm running outside of the restaurant give me a sec um okay thank you very much to the board I appreciate you giving us a chance to talk can you still hear me you sure can okay I'm outside now all right Benjamin and I wrote that together I think we had about 57 people who signed it so I just want to a lot of my concerns are in there so I don't want to repeat all that because you've already seen that um I just want to say that just echoing the public safety and the noise concerns and just as um Nancy was saying we already feel the effects of um the 174 North Whitney Street we live right across the street it's not owner occupied there's frequently cars parked in front of and across the street from the house last year there was a tenant with a very loud motorbike that he revved at all hours of the night and day there's often shouting and arguments and we just know that if there's eight bedrooms at 180 that will mean at least eight more cars and as we've seen on Taylor and at the top of Redgate and on Strong Street there's generally a lot more cars than bedrooms parked at these houses and there's a real Public Safety concern at the in that where this house is located with all that traffic um another real concern we have is about the character of the neighborhood we also moved here in 2007 chose it as a family neighborhood you could walk to school from elementary through high school and a big plus for us was that the neighborhood was on the other side of East Pleasant Street the non- side of central ammer but each year we feel like the university encroaches more and more and I was particularly struck by a story that was making the rounds on our neighborhood list uh about the November 2023 zba meeting where you guys heard a a petition from a Lincoln Avenue resident who was applying for a permit to convert her property to a non-owner occupied duplex and she noted that that although she had planned to age in place in that house which had been in her family for three generations they were now the last owner occupied house on A Street full of student rentals with the accompanying traffic and noise and in approving her application one of your board members I'm not I can't remember who noted that her block was clearly past the Tipping Point and he admired her for Holding Out for so long and as I read that I just thought I was hoping that hopefully that won't be us one day trying to convert our house if the conversion of houses on our street continues unchecked I don't want to find have no option but to convert if we go past the Tipping Point and finally I will just say that even if this special permit application does go through I imagine the owners can still rent to four students rather than eight and I'm not opposed to students what we're opposed to is the size of this potential construction but and also if it if it remains a single family house and it becomes a student rental one day it could maybe go back to a single family house if the university provides more housing or we develop a town plan to alleviate the pressure on our family neighborhoods it can go back to being a family home but if this permit goes through and this construction goes through there will be no going back on this property because it will be a very large you know property with a parking lot and it could never go back to being a single family house so um I would just say that and I would just also you know encourage you to read the petition if you haven't already because that we worked on that with a A large group of neighbors participated in that and everybody gave their comments and we collated them into that petition to kind of represent the neighborhood thank you very much that is it thank you very much uh the next comment I see is from an Andrew Spiel Boogle Mr Spiel wle you're still muted there we go hi uh um on 33 Redgate and my wife and I we we chose the neighborhood because it's a quiet very family neighborhood that has been discussed previously and in the previous uh proposal there was a comment made by one of the board members making a reason assumption about like if there's a flag lot building on it and I feel like when we may when we bought our home in this family oriented single family neighborhood excuse me may I interrupt for a minute hold on for a second the audio is really hard to understand I don't think anyone can understand what you're saying can you either get closer to your phone or somehow change the way you're doing this audio because it's really hard everybody wants to hear what you have to say is this better that's better that's better okay sorry about that um my wife oh now you're breaking up3 Mr Mr Spiel wle you're breaking up again did you just kind of turn or did you walk out did you walk around the room someplace I I haven't moved I'm on internet though so maybe that's why right now you're good it's now whatever you're doing right this instant is fine move pre in the previous uh um special permit uh earlier today there was made there was a comment made by the um zoning board by one of the saying that there was a reasonable assumption that that flag lock be built my point is that we bought into this neighborhood it's a single family like um single very family oriented quiet neighborhood and we also made a I feel like a reasonable assumption that this neighborhood would since it's zoned as single family homes would continue to be um continue in that character and I know that many things have been said about um the safety concerns but even if there are eight parking spots there's always going to be way more cars than that or we just we just lost Mr Spiel vogle um he can come back at a later Point um next is Bruce and Dorothy Griffin hi uh I'm Bruce Griffin uh we live at 44 Redgate Lane um I walk to town uh past this house uh and have done for the last 31 years this there's a lot of pedestrian traffic a lot of uh bicycle traffic uh baby carriages you name it uh this is a very popular uh walking route pedestrian route through this neighborhood um and this particular property is right at the intersection between Redgate Lane North Whitney Street and uh a historic pathway uh skillings path um which is heavily used by students to the middle school and high school and uh the residents of the neighborhood uh and all of this uh comes intersects at uh the point right next to uh 180 North Whitney Street um so people are leaving the The Pedestrian path and walking out into the roadway uh people walking up north Whitney Street if they are walking on the sidewalk are forced out onto the street because the Sidewalk Ends at the driveway for 180 um there uh another factor to consider is that traffic tends to speed up on Redgate Lane because people use it as a shortcut and there's a long straightaway before it suddenly goes downhill and then turns uh right just immediately before 180 um if there were cars parked in the street habitually there which I am absolutely sure we would see with eight bedrooms in this building um that it would be a very dangerous situation um and I put that in a letter and I hope you will consider that Public Safety is an issue in this precise Loc thank you thank you Mr rff the next person on line is Mr Kurt Weiss Mr Weiss you're still muted there you go thank you yeah it takes a while for that unmute button to pop up so there may be a l for other people as well and I'll just note also that um G that I have Kevin Gallagher here still is still kicked out of the meeting um so he may wish to if you are receiving his comments he may wish to do so after I've spoken my name is Kurt wise I live with my partner and daughter at uh 31 Maplewood Drive right around the corner um down the street we also own uh a rental house at 63 Redgate Lane um I guess my comments I want to focus on the idea of family housing we've owned um that we've rented uh 63 Redgate Lane for 10 years uh to to three different families and only to families um as someone else was saying about their rental um with other families you know that's worked really well there have never been any complaints it's gone very smoothly I think that um you know I uh this house is clearly designed uh to for student housing uh and there's a you know a need for student housing um but that's also the function of zoning um that to keep sort of disparate activities separate from each other and uh you know student housing is kind of a different uh Beast than family housing uh our house um had a major Plumbing Leak was totally destroyed uh several years ago we had to move out uh for a year we moved around the corner to Taylor Street corner of Taylor and High Street Street that's a PL a neighborhood we've been taken over by student housing we you know enjoyed regular parties Thursday through Sunday had the police there regularly were woken up uh late at night with people um very drunk pounding on our door insisting that they that they lived our house um you know the streets are incredibly crowded with cars you can't really get two cars through so there's you know there's a role for student housing I was a student once I lived in student housing and I wouldn't want to live next to myself um when I was uh you know 20 and uh and a student so I think that you know there's a real concern about that I think that having the requirement that it be a an owner occupied house is uh goes a long way towards um trying to control some of the worst aspects of that and you know many students are great and most students are probably great 90% of the time and you know it's that other portion of the time that's a real challenge um and this neighborhood North Whitney Redgate is still kind of is holding its own but you know barely against this tide of investor um conversion to student housing and I think it's the role of the zoning board to maintain family housing if there is a way to uh guarantee that this will be uh to require en forcibly that this is family housing wonderful rental family housing is an important element of our community and they're great neighbors I mean we have great families they are neighbors with kids in the neighborhood that go to our schools that is a very different kettle of fish than eight students which we've watched you know at the intersection of Redgate and Strong Street you know that is that flipped you know a year ago two years ago and it's completely different now with parking and you name it um so I would strongly encourage uh the board not to uh uh accept this application um for all those reasons um I'll I'll stop there and uh if the board is interested in hearing from U Mr Gallagher at this time I'll turn it over to him yes I regret Mr Gallagher that you're uh you aren't on the line for whatever reason so go ahead and speak for three minutes um Kevin Gallagher uh 68 Maplewood Drive um I'm just going to comment very briefly on the safety issue so um a number of times we have called the police about the parking situation at the um corner of Redgate and Strong Street and the police say there's nothing they can do um cars you know 8 10 cars will be parked right up to the corner on both sides of the street making it extremely hazardous for cars either pulling out onto Strong Street or cars some strong Street pulling onto Redgate um I know that's not the purview of this particular board but I think I mean the enforcement of parking regulations is not your perview um but the fact that um this is a situation um at on Whitney that may contribute to safety issues and the deterioration of um safety and parking along a particular neighborhood I think should be something that you take into account thank you Mr G um next we have a Mr Mike Bowen hi uh Mike Bowen um from 38 pineer Street Westfield um I'm actually part of the team from AR Associates um who worked on the site plans um so if you just wanted to add me to the meeting um I've been here the whole time uh but if there are any questions uh regarding uh like site uh utilities or storm water I could be available to answer any of those yeah we didn't uh miss m Sadler would you add into the list in case we need to talk to him thank you Mr bowan um Mr Monger is the next person up Freddy Munger there thank you it's not Mr it is I you know soon as I said as soon as I said that I knew I should my mother it's my mother's fault not your fault let me put it that way well it's it's I AP I sincerely apologize I knew I shouldn't have done that yeah no reason to apologize okay I'm Freddy Munger I live at 187 North Whitney Street uh right across the street from the driveway of 180 and there are three driveways that converge at that point mine the sweding and the one across the street up the street a little bit is another driveway for Mary Anderson's property we've lived here since 1976 so I get the award I think for the longest surviving neighborhood person neighborhoods change over time on my neighborhood has changed uh from a largely workingclass neighborhood uh inhabited by custodians and uh nurses and uh uh people who worked in the green houses and Retail people ex and secretaries to a basically middle class neighborhood with professionals moved in um my concerns are about my safety my property safety and the children's safety um we already have one car that's parked on the street between across the street for me between skillings path and the driveway to 180 every night over overnight for the last 3 years uh there's uh two years ago there was a car parked right in front of my house for several months I thought it was abandoned so I called the police they said no it belonged to somebody who is on campus but she was too busy to move it but she'd move it at the end of the semester my concern is if the volume of parking on North Whitney Street represents the volume of parking on South Whitney Street which is a whole different culture um of 18 to 23 year olds down there uh that emergency vehicles will not be able to get down my driveway not fire and not ambulance and being elderly with a with a husband who's also elderly and not well we've had to have the ambulance over a few times and it would not be able to make the turn if there were two cars parked on either you know on my side of the street and one on the other side of the street so that's my personal safety um in terms of property our mailbox has been knocked over at least four times by cars and I can't keep a number up on the street cuz that's the snow plows knock it down every year so um it's the risks of those sorts of things happening go up when the when the density of population the balance of population between 18 between populations of 18 to 23 year olds and populations of middle-aged and older people become unbalanced you know it becomes more difficult for um to have the same kind of to agree on a code of conduct code of conduct for 18 to 23 year olds is appropriate for their age group but quite different than an unspoken code of conduct for people who own houses in my neighborhood in terms of courtesy I'm tired of being sworn at and having people flip me the bird as I walk by their houses and Taylor Street um it's kind of rude so that has been my experience but in terms of neighborhood's changing of course change um and it would be nice if we could keep a balance between people who are renting for short periods of time say six months a year two years who have a who don't have a commitment to the community to the community of proximity the neighborhood or the town and people who have a longer who are either renting or owning who have a longer sense of Engagement with neighbors with the neighborhood and with with the town if we can keep that at a certain balance of course it's wonderful to have young people in the neighborhood some of the 18 to 23 year olds who rent are very kind they make offers to help they don't actually fulfill them but they make at least they make offers others it's difficult to to be neighbors with so it's not it's the age group it's not the fact that they're students and and it's also can you kind of wrap it up here just I'm done bye right I don't want to cut you off just your final senten is is all it's okay I'm done all right thank you Miss Munger and again apologize for um misgendering you I'm sorry Mr troba uh Ted troba is it on yet yep you're on please give us your name and address my name is Ted troba I live at 134 Maplewood Circle and I just want to Second virtually all of the comments that have been made about uh parking about speed I more than once have interacted with students who were going 40 miles an hour down that road uh while my wife and I are walking with two dogs there are no sidewalks uh between 180 and uh Strong Street um and uh also I just want to D um reset restate approve can't think of the word I want those who are in support of an owner occupied duplex that is a very different a very different um entity so I am opposed to the non-owner occupied duplex um and I I could be fine with an owner occup duplex that's it thank you thank you Mr tra um we've got it's about 855 I see two more hands up for public comment my intention would be to take these next to yoab and La M Davis I have those um people speak anybody else that wishes to speak please indicate and we will put you on the list for the time when we continue this hearing and make sure that you get a chance to speak then but um if so for those of you that wish to speak I I see Mary the Chris will you take note that Mary Anderson Andrew Spiel Boogle and if there's anybody else who wishes to speak that won't get a chance through tonight we'll make sure we get them on the the the next time we have a hearing on this subject um so next is for yo yo please give a your name and address for the record yes my name is yki I live on 11 Redgate Lane and I would like to I agree with everything that people said before me but I would like to suggest to you a different way to look at it I invested probably close to more than $200,000 in the in the city of emers if I add my neighbors that lived here for 30 years all to together we contributed in property tax $1 million to the city of emmer and we expect the city of emmer to protect our neighborhood now let's not uh play games here given the growing need for student housing and where we are it is reasonable to assume that this will end up as a student housing listen eight students now to me it looks like a dorm it smells like a dorm and it sounds like a dorm and I want to ask you what is this dorm going to do to the quality of our neighborhood to the quality of our life after living here for more than 30 years and now taking our grandchildren for walks with with with the with now 10 more cards next to us so please be consider us rather than in those who are here for investment in in in student housing thank you very much thank you uh last uh Elena Davis and also please note that there's a Nick that has indicated he wishes to speak as well and he won't be get a chance to do that tonight so M uh Elena Davis please give us your name and address can you hear me now we can took me a minute to figure that out it's like calling into a radio show you know always there's that 7even second delay that's great you I appreciate being squeezing me in um you know I agree with all of the comments that have been made or just give a share address oh sorry sorry Elena Davis uh 20 Cliff DAV um so I think given all the comments I understand that neighborhoods change my section of the street has changed significantly in the last couple of years since I bought my house um you know I understand that students need a place to live I think it's really you know the plans look beautiful it's sounds like a lovely way to use the property um you know I think all of that I understand I think it's just unfortunately this particular spot where it's located um I really you know share in the safety concerns um and I do think the reality adding the parking spots you know to have eight will be helpful but I think you know the reality is that people have friends over they have parents come visit they have parties um and that spot the way the road curves the fact that there's no sidewalk you know when you get north of that spot um the fact that it's used by you know not only myself and my children but a whole neighborhood of um you know Elementary to high school age kids and homeowners going for walks there you know lots of times I've had to jump on the curve because a car is coming fast around that corner heading south um so it's not just having cars parked along there to make it more congested but just having more cars of you know younger drivers who have a different sensibility about you know what speed they use going through a neighborhood um I really you know I I'm I'm willing to keep myself safe and have to be more Vigilant but I don't think it's a fair ask for all of the other um you know older folks and the kids who use that street a lot to walk places so you know if there's a proposal to at a sidewalk um along Redgate to that side of the street I think that might be a slightly different scenario and that would be helpful but I haven't heard any discussion of that um so I think the reality is it's going to be more congested they're going to be more fast drivers and unfortunately at this particular spot on the road it's just going to be a safety problem um so I'll leave it at that and I appreciate the chance to speak thank you Miss Tav as I said there's more people that wish to speak but we're coming up P we past nine o' so we kind of hit our our hard stop but I want to give do two things I want to give the um applicant a chance to respond if they wish to tonight to some of the comments made uh also know that you'll be a when as we will not reach a decision tonight on this um you'll be given a chance to respond to those again if you wish to um think about them and respond at a later point in time but to the extent you want to respond tonight feel free to do so and then after we hopefully continue this to a later Point we've got a couple other things a few other things we have to do before we can adjourn so um Mr REI or Miss morisy whoever wishes to determine whether you want to respond to the public comments please do so sure thanks Mr chair I I don't think we need to respond tonight we've we've read the letters we've heard the comments uh we know we're getting continued which was expected I guess my only question would be to the board and if there's any board comment you know if we're we're going to be back in I'm assuming July 11th um what can we do between now and then what plan revisions Etc what are the comments from the board just so we can come back and have a pretty comprehensive discussion okay well that's the next order of businesses what any board questions or any board comments so Mr chair yes Mr so the common theme with everyone has been about safety I I I I hear everyone's concerns about um the concern of nonon occupied but you know I I think on my notpad there were at least 10 people who spoke and the common theme is safety and what was very telling was they said for the most part that there's either no sidewalk or the sidewalk end and I am not sure how this is the responsibility of the applicant here and it'll be interesting to see what if any request has been made off the town to rectify that issue because again everyone says they have kids they walk in the neighborhood that jump on the curb or car speed through there it's regardless if we approve this permit or not that issu is not going to go away so I don't think that should fall on the applicants so again it' be very interesting to see what if anything has a town received any complaints about safety in that neighborhood what have they any consideration but a sidewalk additional speed bumps stop signs things like that so that is that that's what that was my one of my biggest takeaways was the safety concern and I don't think the safety concern should fall on the applicants thank you other comments other considerations um for the applicant from board members I'll just have to re reiterate I walk there all the time I walk there with my former running Partners we're not walking partners and and I would suggest that the safety is a big issue there there it's a walking Street there are people walking up and down there all the time there are children who come up through skilling's path and walk through down that street and that that's a very difficult POS place to put eight bedrooms for students in that location I I I just I could not see how that could be functional and safety conscious for that neighborhood it's just not the right location any other comments so what I would like to do um is move entertain a motion to uh continue this to a date certain and um Chris let's go through the dates which we would be able to do that it may be the same date as our Redgate hearing but um let's try to run through the possibility possible dates and make sure that the applicant can attend as well um I I'm afraid I don't remember why we decided against um some of the previous dates I think some of it was because the applicant and his uh designer couldn't be there but um the dates when you have upcoming meetings are June 27th um which is when we had talked about continuing the um 395 West Street yeah and then you have July 11th and your next date would be July 25th um you also talked about an interim date of July 20th but I or excuse me June 20th but I wasn't sure uh why that date came up um anyway those are kind of the options June 20th June 27th July 11th July 25th so first first off June 20th is that a possibility for board members and then we'll go to the applicant that's right okay so it doesn't work for Craig all right and it doesn't work for Mr Henry right for ever right yes so let's go to June 27th does that work for everybody that does and I think that's when all right so let's choose June 27th if let's talk of ask the applicant does that date work for you it works for me okay I'm away but uh hopefully my wife will let me zoom in we're all familiar with being away nice places and getting on zba calls on Thursday night yeah okay we'll move to June 27th so um I would entertain a motion that we continue this public hearing until June 27th at six o'clock before we do Mr chair may I make um to Mr 's earlier question um about what the board can see when we continue the hearing so we cannot ignore the safety concerns um of the neighborhood in the community and while I do not believe it is on the applicant to solve this issue it would be good to see something that you guys brought to the town about the safety concerns about this neighborhood um Vis the sidewalk and maybe speed bumps stop signs whatever um just address the concerns of the neighborhood to see again common theme Here was safety that should not be ignored so between now and then it' be it'd be good to see you had some conversations with the town about what can be done to address some of those safety concerns all right if there's no other comments oh Mr sler I saw your hand no that that was going to be so moved the last thing you said was looking for emotion yep looking for emotion so moved I wanted to beat the others this time second we got we got a and we have a second second all right it's moved in second it to continue this until the the public hearing until the 27th um and there's no further discussion the chair votes I Mr Meadows hi Mr Henry hi Mr sler hi Mr White hi all right vote is 5 to zero uh we'll see you guys in a month thank you very much thank thank you guys thank you very much thank you the next order of business is public comment on any matter not before the board tonight oops what do we what about continuing the public hearing for Mr Leer's project at 395 West Street you're so good Chris and I don't have my script in front of me I am sorry thank you um the next order of business is FY 2024 D20 L that's requesting a special permanent section 33251 and 3 231 of the zoning Bol to construct a 5,712 foot mixed use building with nine residential units and two first floor commercial spaces and to construct the way raise for walkway in the FPC zoning district with requested waiver from traffic impact study at 39 West street map 19B parcel 1 R the C Village Center residence and flood prone prone Conservancy zoning District um he's written and asked us to to move this to continue this as they um have to they have to have a fill they need some filling um um variances or they need a filling special permit so um he needs some time uh Chris what when was the time that he could do this he can make it on the 27th June 27th let's try it for June 27th do I have a motion to continue so move 2020 so moved second second all right moved and seconded I don't think there's any discussion all I vote I Mr Meadows hi Mr White oh what about time did you decide on oh we didn't decide on time we got but for the meeting is six o'clock so meeting is six o'clock so this will come after the other one just moved to six okay good sorry that's okay um ch votes I Mr M votes I Mr White votes I Mr everald you were voting I and Mr sler I all right we had five or nothing it's so so ordered now public comment on any matter not before the board tonight that means you can talk about anything you wish except those things we had on the on our agenda is there anybody who wishes to speak um I see Nick's hands up Nick do you wish to speak on something not before on a topic not before the board tonight or did Nick just leave his hand up no response Pam I'm getting no response okay I I think it's just a a residual a zombie hand up there on the on zoom zoom zombie hand not to we just created a new term okay the next order of businesses General is um business is not anticipated for the last 48 hours and what the one thing I want to do is is um just run through the schedule that we have Chris I know if you can and also um one of the things we need to do is have an administrative meeting uh for the year where we elect officers we we have several new members we have new associate members and we it's helpful to have a meeting with them to introduce them and kind of um bring them into the um ZB so they can ask questions and we can kind of provide an orientation for them and I'd like to try to schedule that at some point so um Chris what do we have coming up I know we have a solar hearing soon we have a solar hearing on June 6th then we talked about not having a meeting on June 13th although now that you can make it on June 13th you might maybe you want to have your um administrative meeting administrative meeting on June 13th y we could try that let's see it what we should do let's um you know what I think we should do is tely schedule a June 13th administrative meeting let's not wait for a another public hearing to have to schedule it if we get a lot of people who can attend if we get a majority especially the new members um that'd be helpful but we need a majority of the per the full members if we're going to take any action at the administrative meeting so I can do the 13 Mr sler can you yes I can Mr Henry can you I can Mr Shear Mr White can you I can and Mr Meadows can you I can call in from Colombia if need be all right well we've got four of the five that's good and then we we'd love to have you call in from Colombia we wouldn't want to leave you out and then Chris can you see if we get the um if we can get some of the new newly appointed um alternates to ALS be to attend and by that time they should all uh have filled their forms out and um um done the conflict of interest and every all the other things they have to do to become full me become members of the zba okay good let's schedule that um that's all I have is there any questions that members of the board have all right well I appreciate our you guys going over time with us but we got it done by 9:15 and that's a that's a good thing all right we'll see you all on the uh I think the next time is a is a don't we need to vote to a journ we do I'm just wrapping up oh sorry sorry right I've been sloppy tonight Mr White do we have a motion to adjourn we do all right and Mr sler do you want to second that I would like nothing more you you were already on your chair so I knew you were ready to go all right the we have moved and seconded to adjourn tonight um there's it's a non-debatable motion chair votes I Mr Meadows hi Mr White hi Mr Henry hi Mr sloger hi thank you all thank you thank you have a great night bye great night bye thanks Pam thank you P welcome oh you're welcome we'll see you all soon have a good night stop the recording