Chapman is absent council member Clayton St here here Deputy Mayor Quinn here mayor Moore here please stand for silent prayer moment of reflection before and we do this every meeting but uh we lost a true Asbury Parker this week in Carol Tor so I would hope you remember her in your moment of silence for C thank you thank you we will now salute the flag I pledge alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all as to comply with the open public meetings act chapter 231 PL 1975 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided in the following manner the annual notice was forwarded to the Asbury Park Press the coaster and the Star Ledger on January 22nd 2024 and posted on the Bolton board the same date all notices are on file with the city clerk we're now on to special events applications good evening mayor and councel good evening um the 15 applications that are under consideration for this evening have been reviewed and approved by the special events committee one change is that the lobster Run 5K has been cancelled by the applicant so the application can be pulled are there any questions on the other 14 applications they're all return events yep returning events yes thank you thank you thank you thank you we're now to items to be presented item is jld Investment Group LLC uh de a development project for property located at 7052 Avenue the Holy Spirit Church you hi folks I just want to give a quick int uction before the presentation starts by the developers just for the record my name is Beth mcmanis I'm one of the city's planning Consultants so of course we're here tonight to hear about a holy spirit Church's Redevelopment proposal the site is at at the corner of Second Street in Bond Street it's a property of about 1.19 Acres as you may know the project or the site previously received approval to remove the church and replace it with single family housing but we're here tonight to listen to a Redevelopment proposal that includes retaining the church the purpose tonight is for uh the council as well as the public to learn about the project and to be given an opportunity to ask questions and uh provide comments but one thing that's not planned for this evening is Council action there's no vote uh that's planned for this site this is really just an opportunity to learn and to ask questions about the project and the other thing I wanted to highlight is the council's looking for input on on all aspects of the project so one of the things that we'll hear is a proposal to repurpose the church we'll also hear about a proposal to construct an additional building on the property a residential building as well as some structured parking and the applicant is also looking for a financial package from the city for a pilot and a r and so uh we're looking forward to hearing everybody's comments and questions and again I just want to reiterate that there's no action that's planned for this evening thank you thank you very much thank you thank you Beth good evening everyone uh my name is John Barry I'm a professional planner and I've been working with the applicant jld Investment Group we have uh Joseph Hannah who's principal of the applicant uh here this evening as well as some other members of our team Bob Beni is a financial expert we have Jason Hanahan from Mot Architects uh as well um mayor and Council good evening thank you for taking the time to have us here before you uh what I'm going to do is run briefly through a presentation that explains the project to everyone that's present and then we'll have an opportunity to hear all your comments your questions we'll probably direct the questions to some of the other members of the team depending on what comes up but um we look forward to getting your input so that we can make this project successful for everyone here in the city so by way of background I think Beth did a good job of introducing the site introducing the project and I'm sure everyone who's here this evening has been following along over the last several years with the plan that's been proposed for the site um this project uh essentially has its origins in the decision by the Catholic Church to shut down the parish here at at um corner of second and bond back in 2021 so the church has not been in operation since the summer of of 2021 since that time as you heard there was an application at the planning board for a subdivision and development of Residential Properties which is the only thing that's currently permitted under the R1 Zone where the church sits so um the purpose of the meeting this evening is really to understand the path forward for how we can repurpose the church building retain it as part of the fabric as the Asberry Park Community the again our our goal is to get guidance from the public guidance from the council get feedback on the plans that are being proposed we're offering the plan to you for that consideration and as well to lay out what is the reality how to make the project happen some of the financial needs that the project would have in terms of a partnership with the city moving forward so this is the overall vision for what's being proposed you have the church building on the right side freshened up retained in its current form we'll go into what we're talking about for the inside of the building and then next to it on what is now the parking lot and the rear portion of the site where the old rectory once uh where it stands um you would have a new multif family building with structured parking so two levels of parking and a residential building above some of the key elements I want to point out here we have some conceptual ideas is for public art which we work with the city's Arts Council in terms of how to bring that about keeping the corner of the building closest to the church open to preserve the sight lines to the church when you're coming down Second Avenue you'd have a a more open view of the church preserve a little bit more of that historic look of the church that's been there for a long time this is a close-up rendering again these are conceptual ideas open for comment open for um revision but this would be a look at some of the street level view between the building the new building on the left the church on the right you have some examples of seating areas Gathering spaces some public art that could be incorporated to create that sense of place on the street contribute to the community the Arts community in the city can I interrupt you for one second yes sir are these the same plans you sent us because they don't look the same uh this this presentation has been revised since the plans that were submitted uh couple couple weeks ago so if I base my questions off of these plans I wasted my time I wouldn't I wouldn't say that sir I think the the nuts and bolts of The Proposal are more or less the same some of the renderings have been updated just thank you when will the city get the new uh we submitted plans to the city not the renderings these are the renderings that you're showing right now the more they're the same plans okay thank you so what I have your A1 through A9 is correct yeah and we'll get to those layouts and and all of those the dimensions the proposed uses thanks so um the Holy Spirit Church in its hopefully next iteration of its existence become the sacred stage and it will include on the ground floor the main body of the church a mix of uses a cafe and eating space some space work space for Artisans artists in the city where they can have a combined Works space gallery space that would be open and accessible a stage that would have some space for performance art and then a repurposing of some of the pews within the church to create seating areas and we'll show you all of this down in the basement the main focus would be a theater that would be hopefully and we're um in conversations with the Asbury Park Theater Company to have that be their permanent home and some flexible office space so I know at this scale it's a little hard to see uh and unfortunately the pointer doesn't work on these screens but at the top of the drawing you have the alter area the the apps of the church toward the toward the top of the drawing and that's where the proposed Cafe would be located then down toward the middle of the Nave you have various seating areas in the aisles along the sides that's where the artist Works spaces would be installed so You' take kind of the natural breaks in the church structure and put some partitions inside that would give some work space for individual artists and that then um some seating areas in the middle for Gathering this is a conceptual rendering of what that might look like so you would have as I said the pews repurposed into seats you'd have a stage area up toward where the altar was some seating for a Cafe Restaurant type of use and then some additional Gathering space in the [Music] middle the this look gives you a better idea of what some of those artists work spaces might look like you see the hanging prints uh paintings some of the sculptures in the foreground and those would be the artist workspaces and again some of the seating areas that accompany them as you can see a lot of the the intention is to retain the details of what make the church special in giving it a new use in the basement the lower floor of the church uh which is really not so much a basement it's mostly a grade because you walk up the steps into the main floor of the church toward the top of our screen you would have the theater space approximately 150 seats using reper purpose pews for the bulk of the seating and the stage area where the basement altar is located then toward the middle and bottom of the drawing you have some of the office space that's proposed some private offices partitioned off on the sides and more of an open Office a workking kind of space toward the middle this is a conceptual look at what the basement theater could look like you see this the stage area in the lower Altar and some of the seating using the repurpose pews as I mentioned so now moving next door onto the where the surface parking lot for the church is located today is a new building that's being proposed to accompany the repurposing of the church this is called the crossroads Residential Building as I mentioned in the opening it includes two floors of parking we'll talk about how that's broken down and a little bit more about parking but the big base of the building two floors of parking and then six stories of residential units above that in kind of a zigzag configuration that keeps the corner of the building open so you have a little bit less bulk hanging out over the church it's open at the corner for your sight lines and then some amenity space for the residents as is typical in all of these types of buildings today looking at the floor plans so this is what would be inside of the building on the ground floor you would have parking spaces that would be allocated for the sacred stage building we're showing 55 spaces here um during special events there would be the ability to utilize some management techniques a valet service something like that probably get you up to a 100 spaces if you had a peak demand period and we're going to manage it carefully the second level would be a separate parking level and these would be designed so that they're not mixed you're not fighting the residential parking and against the commercial commercial parking the second level would be dedicated for the residential units right now we're looking at about 75 spaces per unit 64 65 spaces of residential parking and we'll talk about how we can allocate that and it's something that I'm sure will be an ongoing conversation then moving up from the parking again we have the big base of parking as we go to the third floor of the building starts to shrink down a little bit we pulled in the corner you can see the white area in the bottom right of the drawing and then a little bit more white outline around the building building gets a little bit smaller as it goes up so that you have space for Windows you have space for some light and air for the residential units and some space between the neighbors and as you go up you have residential units with a total of 55 one-bedroom units proposed 32 two-bedroom units and three three-bedroom units what's important to note is that the project is proposing a percentage of of affordable housing 15 of the proposed 90 units would be designated as affordable housing and they would be broken down as is required under the regulations in the state with three one-bedroom units nine two-bedroom units and three three-bedroom units so we would certainly work through all of those applicable regulations with the city as we go now as to parking which we understand is a very important issue and we've been carefully thinking about this carefully planning for it thinking about how to separate the parking for some of the retail Performing Arts kinds of spaces versus the residents of the buildings the as I said twole Deck with distinct and separate parking availability for the residential parking the concept would be to have each of the two and three-bedroom units allocated with one reserve space and then from there the remaining units would be available on a first come first serve basis or some other program that the management works at out for special events Management's key you want to make sure that there's not overlapping special events you want to make sure that there's a valet service or other kind of coordination to maximize the parking that's available on site and as needed work with the city to utilize other off-site parking if that's appropriate at the time so um understanding that in a day-to-day we're looking at largely a local audience especially um during the summer there's a lot of in town who are walking biking scooting all over town that's one of the best ways to get around especially when parking is tight and there's a lot of traffic and so for this kind of use with flexible office space with artist galleries we anticipate that a lot of people are going to be coming to the site walking biking scooting and so forth so we're committed to building a essentially a one space per unit of bike parking into the residential building and accommodating bicycle and scooter parking and so forth as part of the overall site the building is designed that has the potential to add stackers for additional parking inside not our preference um but physically the building could accommodate them if that's so a road that we need to go down later on essentially we see the parking as improving the existing conditions right now you have a church with a capacity of over 600 people on the main Church floor during peak season at 27 parking spaces on the site um the site has also been host to different uses over the years there was the the directory even further back there was a school on the property so the site has always had a limited parking availability and we see the new project as reducing the overall capacity of the building whilst doubling essentially the parking that's available on site for uses in the church so as as a planner one of the things that I do what my profession essentially does is we're we're thinking about the future we're planning for the future we're managing change and we're considering different Alternatives that may be available for how to bring those Concepts together what we're here to talk about essentially is saving saving the church building and that is the a number one benefit that we see to the proposal that's before you this evening we have two different Alternatives before us essentially we have one project that's gone through the planning board process we have another project that we're presenting tonight that in many ways is the preference I think and I would and with hope um so we see that saving the church structure as part of the city's fabric as a vital benefit to the project creating a new cultural and artistic space in the city the city thrives on its Arts Community um as rents go up it becomes more and more complicated to find different spaces um the church has a lot of space to offer it's a it's a sizable building and maintaining a flexibility and offering that space up to a variety of users is a key to saving it and as a big benefit of this project establishing a home for the Asbury Park Theater Company talked about that in terms of the the lower level Theater Company Community Theater is uh great part of the local artistic vibrancy city is a many music venues very few venues that are dedicated to other types of Performing Arts so we see this as as a benefit in terms of solidifying the home for the Asbury Park Theater Company here in the building developing a new rental apartment building fills the need in the city and providing 15 affordable housing units certainly uh rents uh continue to go up in the city and adding more units to the market will help fill market rate needs and adding affordable units helps fill needs at a different level of income we also see the project as helping to support Main Street this isn't uh Waterfront project this isn't a cookman Avenue downtown project this project is closer to Main Street in the middle of the Main Street Corridor essentially there's been a Redevelopment plan for that area in place for 15 or so years and there's been limited activity as those of you who are in town know there's been few things here and there but we haven't seen a lot of progress along the Main Street Corridor so the hope is that this project would help catalyze additional activity and Revitalize a portion of the mainstream Cor and finally the public artart that we talked about continue to work with the city work with the Arts Council to have murals on the building have other public art installations as well as the artistic space inside the building so really as I said it's about looking at Alternatives this is a rendering of the six single family homes on the lot where the church is today and this is the proposal that we're bringing before you to maintain a church building add a new neighbor building and bring a mix of uses together to the site so with that I will stop talking and we'd like to hear from all of you and the councel I thank you thank you uh I'll start I guess you said for the basement and for the seating for the theater 150 but your plan set show 84 seats so how did it increase I'm sorry say that again the gentleman just said for the seating for the theater 150 seats but the plans you submited say 84 yeah we discussed it with the osy Park Theater Company they feel like they would need more seats so we up well I thought that also but I mean but we're going with the plans you submit I didn't think a theater company would want to have a seating capacity of 84 right so then with the other plans if you go to page 82 which shows the layout the apartments right there you're missing uh another affordable one bedroom okay you only have four per Flor instead of five per Flor total one two and three right so that's the typo yeah yeah it'll it'll have 15 affordable units I think the calculation is 16. and and the we usually get renderings which have you know say like layouts of the apartments and we don't have that so we haven't got that far yet we kind of put this together quickly as possible to get you know in front of the public and get in front of the council but we could we could definitely get that to you the council down the road okay right so this is time to ask the questions we can get the down the road thank you uh Will the Market units be larger than the affordable units in square footage size um we haven't really went through the square footage of all the affordable units yet of exactly what the exact square footage will be but I I don't think necessarily no I I think that all the three yeah I don't even know if it's legal if they can be but I mean it's just something I want to bring to your attention because you don't have anything it looks like you have one elevator and two staircases again that has not been finalized yet once the final once we get closer to final architecturals we see we'll see just how many elevators we'll need and how many stairc cases will need okay uh you show some balconies will all the units have balconies no will the affordable units have balconies I'm not sure okay uh again I think I know the aners again you say the project will include a dedicated bicycle storage facility that's correct it's not on the plan so you can't tell me how large that's going to be we we we act just had this conversation we're thinking 90 bikes you know at least one bike per unit so storage for for 90 bikes a room big enough to hold 90 bikes that's correct there's also no room to hold garbage or Recycling and cities you know ask for to be large enough to hold a week's worth of Y I don't see that on the plans either there will be okay uh Mechanicals M on the roof in the seller where are they going to be maybe it's best that we have our architect to come up and answer some of those questions Jason uh this is just out of curiosity question sure uh in your report under project benefits you mentioned the other high-rise departments on Second Avenue where are they I can't find them okay uh well that was probably a write up by John what exact highrise building on Second Avenue sorry there was a high-rise building on Second Avenue I guess oh sure uh yeah mayor that was uh just kind of discussing the overall context of Second Avenue if you were coming into town and going where where's that you said there's another highrise on Second Avenue uh one of the housing authorities buildings is on just off of Second Avenue there's a six-story building at this corner of Robinson Towers on third well that that's on Third and then there's a six story building okay I just tried to picture I'm sorry uh [Music] building down the road when we get more information could we get a depiction of this building on the block with what's there around it absolutely and then also could we get like a depiction of you know this would be the largest building on Main Street at this point of time next largest is the YMCA so those next to each other just for reference sure it doesn't have to be fancy I mean just some basic massing so you can get an idea I'm not looking for you to spend $10,000 for an architect to like do a fancy picture just a stick figure is fine with me okay no problem with the Church occupancy and only 55 parking spots uh so you got the basement size and the capacity just went up 60 some people how many flexible spaces for offices so I think with the rendering that we have right now it shows eight different offices if I'm not mistaken can you go off that rendering please yes um so it shows it shows four shows I think five spaces right now okay um and I'm looking for ball trying to about 50 people that would come and go throughout that space whether they're dedicated in in a large office space or they're in that kind of open office area you know plus or minus about 50 so instead of going through these one by one let me just read it then maybe you can answer them all together because they all tie in together so you had the the basement went up the flexible spaces the ground floor or the restaurant's 50 or 66 faes and then the stage in front of the altar we don't know the dimensions yet and then you're going to repurpose the pews to face the stage so what's the capacity of that's going to be and then I'll keep on going you can answer them all together if you want to orless you want to answer them now I can give you the C count in this in this one in this image we're looking at at the moment there is uh 16 seats that are facing the know the top here at that bar area as 48 Cafe seats and then 150 uh seats that are repurposed pews that are scattered through the Nave and the the artist area in the church uh with a total of 214 okay then on the Upper Floor a third performance stage it'll be visible from the seating and Gathering space so I imagine you going to turn pews around to face upstairs what would be the seating capacity for that so you're speaking about the you talking about the third level third level so the way the pews are set up right now they face forward and backwards so they're multiuse for both stages so I guess what I'm looking for the bottom line like what would the total capacity be on the main floor we yeah and right now we're showing 24 seats and that's that's our anticipated like two 214 seats plus the restaurant or that's included okay 214 total but not including the basement right not including the basement that's just this level on the screen we have on the lower I can give you that that's no roughly 200 150 in the theater plus or minus 50 in that office area Okay the parking and I know it's a subject I know some people don't like it but something has to be addressed uh what would be the dimensions of the parking stalls are they mini cars or the regular car as indicated now they're standard your standard parking stalls all of them are standard you have no compact spots indicated yet 8 fo6 by 18t right now we're showing 9 by 18 but yes uh are you going to be EV ready or EV in place they'll at the moment we haven't thought that far ahead of the actual EV ready specifics uh but we will you know meet our needs in that basement area most likely EV in place and I think it's no big deal you guys said 7 five per and per unit our calculations came out 71 and that could go down a little bit also because if you add the retail on the new new units yeah that includes increased parking also very slight yeah very slight uh would emergency vehicles be ambulances be able to access the first and second floor of the garage to get to people on the third fourth and fifth floor as it's designed now yes correct that's very important thank you how will the parking spots be assigned is it a lottery and will people have to pay for these parking spots or are they free so for the two and three bedrooms they'll automatically be allocated a parking space for the rest of the units it'll be a lottery okay yeah and paid or it'll probably be paid yes that's correct so the three bedroomroom affordable will have to pay because there's there's only three three bedrooms in the thing they're all for affordable so they would have to pay for parking that's correct okay thank you just out of curiosity because you mentioned you know and you're right Asbury Park is parking is worse than the summer there's no question about it but this venue is not going to be a summer venue this is going to be hopefully a 52 we venue that's correct so you said work together with the city as far as figuring out some type of parking do you guys have any ideas because we don't well we did the best we possibly can with the parking but I mean I think we're going to gain and and I remember this from the First Development from our traffic engineer I think we gained 10 on street parking spaces with the style development so we would get that uh I don't know how else we would be able to work with the thank you for that because I was going to ask you we lose any on Street Mark you gain some we gain some because the curb cut curb cuts are so wide not there'll be reduced that's correct thank you that's a good point okay then the garage floors will be the first and second second and third floor will they be open vent or will they have an HVAC system our plan right now is to have them open the open ventilation um so we're not going to ventilate them we'll we'll have enough area and again these are more questions that going to come up the planning board down the road and everything but since this is the first meeting like I said like oh then we get kind of like that feeling for it now and we'll have a lot more time to prepare and be able to get you right and then I'll wait to go into the financials if everything went semi- perfect semi- perfect and you get planning board approval what would your schedule be to start the project finish the project and would you run both projects parallel so they both finish at the same time or which one would you finish first very good question thank you for asking that So the plan is the church will get done first um there's not a lot of work that has to be done for the church to be repurposed in this manner if you notice from the renderings that we didn't really change much besides repurposing the pews the tables the shander and there's some repairs that have to be done in the building of course but timeline for the church to get done I think the church can get done in 3 to four months um for the building portion of it I think that's probably an 18 to 24 month project okay and then I know you sent us a lot of information I deeply appreciate it through Beth and everything so you jld basically have built a lot of beautiful houses and everything and you've built one uh commercial condominium building in yakers New York right could you just give us like the description of building yeah I absolutely can but I would have to bring up my partner Aussie he's a CEO of mountain viw developments he handles construction management would you mind us bringing him up yeah certain talk about because that's the only one listed on your website so yeah sure we' just like to know about it no problem thank you good evening good even just need anything of my address or anything like that I can just start you have to be uh yeah we did we done a lot of projects especially in the Bronx I done myself even for I met over 2200 renovation HUD units which is Affordable units in the Bronx in Brooklyn New York EA New York I done over 2200 units and we done we done one from the ground up in the on Boston Road in Bronx uh Bronx in New York which is uh about I think it was about 38 units um affordable units with no parking it was the on street parking and that's pretty much it you know but currently we're doing some work right now no problem like you know in the this was like 30 years ago and somebody asked naan what have you built they said well this problem over 2200 units we're done only we're currently working on only one 800 condum commercial yeah but a lot of them are highrise a lot of them are 2 two story high none of them are listed on your website sites on J because it's a renovation it's a different entity it's a different entity right maybe you going give us that down the road also I'll give you that no problem no problem for now that's all I have thank you problem no problem you want me to go yeah um are we both done or do you want us to stay no no stay stay so you talked about the event space and the coordination So when you say that what I hear you saying and I want to make sure this is accurate you're not going to have the Theater Company putting on a play and the restaurant in full force you would sort of coordinate a a little bit of that to make sure we don't have 400 people in that sort of small area is that what you're saying when you're talking about itre that's correct okay my second question is um and maybe you don't know this yet but what is important to me is that it's either done simultaneously or the church is done first um condos are are not particularly interested to me this discussion is really for me about the church so we would want to see substantial uh construction or Rehab on the church while simultaneous or before you build the 90 condos right yeah that's somehow be together that what we wouldn't want is the condos to be built and then the churchs the idea is to start both at the same time but the church is going to take a lot less time to finish okay so like all right so we're on the same work on those two things together yes that's two three and this might be for our attorneys that it might not be for you but and I'm saying this is somebody where there's always I'm going to call I would use a different word but I'll use a mess up factor in Asbury Park sometimes okay so if for whatever reason the church didn't come to fruition I think I think we can be clear it's that's not going to be be your huge Money Maker right an artist in church um we would want and maybe that's for our attorneys to figure out but a penalty a reverter clause or something to make sure that the church doesn't and I know that's not your intent I know Joe that's not your intent but we would want some sort of guarantee that this church remains open to public youth and again I'm just going to speak for me because the sacrifice for me is the high density for the church right so we would just have to we would just have to figure that out and there would have to be Provisions worked into the agreements be for coming if the project proceeds there'll be a Redevelopment agreement a pilot agreement yeah some penalty or reverter or something if if everything went wrong and the church didn't come to fruition just putting in so we just want you to know that that's being contemplated and that would be have to address in the agreement 100% just remember yeah it's a topic that will engage disc we get more into the okay and so and then the last thing since we brought up financing is that again the the catch for me Joe as you know is is this I'm sick of Asbury losing beautiful buildings obviously so you would be looking for some sort of I'm going to call it a tax incentive to save the church because the church is not your money maker right the church is is not going to be your money maker that's correct okay that's it um hi thank you for coming in this evening so let's talk about the cafe is the cafe going to be a cafe or restaurant is it a a is it a casual place where local residents will be walking in and out or is it going to be a formal restaurant sit down make reservations I imagine it like Cameo you know I don't know if you ever been to Cameo it's like it's like a restaurant kind of Cafe I guess you can call it Breakfast Cafe Restaurant so I don't know if that answers your question but that was kind of the vision for it will'll be open to the public yes it will be anybody just can it's not only for the residents oh oh I'm sorry was that what you were asking would it be open to the public or be like I'm I'm assuming if it's there it's going to be open right right yeah yeah of course right um okay and this may seem like a silly question but we encountered it in the past all the bedrooms are going to have Windows and closets yes yeah for sure the amenity space on the ground floor is that an amenity space or is it retail space kind of going back and forth on that originally it was going to be retail space um but you know there's enough retail space in the church building where the where the people that live the residents that live in the building next door could you know what are we going to put down there another Cafe like there's already one inside the church so maybe that space ends up being a gym that's open to the public and it's free to the residents so it can kind of be across you know across between amenity space and retail space okay and my last question is can you just describe for us what you're intending for the roof of of the apartment building sure yeah yeah so uh obviously a pool that's up there uh barbecue space some basic outdoor seating and some basic outdoor space um some some green space up there that's that's pretty much it for the most part some Cabanas up there yeah right thank you problem and maybe some mechanical and some what and maybe some Mechanicals because you don't know where you're putting the mechanical it's possible yes I don't imagine the mechanical will take up that much space though no you wouldn't be able to see him from the street anyway because that's correct they'll be set in the back sight we'll yeah we'll have set in the back uh I have a few questions for you um in regards to the affordable units there's 15 of them that's correct okay and there and how many one two three bedrooms again please we could bring that back up on the screen other way do we have the affordable counts up on the screen sorry about that and me one second apologies I don't I don't have it spelled out on here but the breakdown would be 15 units three of the one-bedroom units nine of the two-bedroom units and three of all three of the three bedroom units and that's the breakdown that's required by the state regulation okay thank you and you don't have the size uh the square footage of those units yet I think we I think we do have some basic square footage some basic square footage up here if I'm not mistaken we have some ranges shown as you you have jogs in the building not every unit's going to be the same um the one-bedroom units range from 750 to 950 Square ft the two bedrooms from 900 to just under 1,200 and then the three bedrooms are right around 1150 um they're a little bit smaller but uh three bedroom okay thank you um regarding the pool the barbecue area all units all residents will have access including the absolutely and I thought I read somewhere regarding where the organ is you're going to have that um that's going to be reserved for music yes that's the other stage that we were talking about earlier that's the third floor stage okay so there's two stages on the main level and the one stage is in front of The Cafe restaurant as we call it Cafe and the other stage is that third level where the organ used to be that would be another performing art stage okay and so let's say community members they would have access to that if they wanted to you know local ban or something yeah that would be great you know something like Springland Mondays yeah for sure okay thank you you're welcome any other questions Beth had questions Beth has questions come on [Music] okay thank you thank you very much I do have a couple uh follow questions for you guys Beth just open to the mic so we can get you on thank okay uh let's see so uh we talked a little bit about affordable housing just a moment ago and I I think the answer to this is yes but I just want to put a finer point on it you said that you're going to comply with the bedroom distribution and I I just want to confirm the units will meet all of the applicable requirements right the 30-year controls Etc AB excellent great thank you and the 15 affordable units it amounts to a set aside just shy of 177% about 17% and I just want to know if you guys considered increase ing the set aside to 20% and I just note for for the Public's reference that that's the typical affordable housing set aside that the city seeks in Redevelopment projects we went through a lot of different back and forths on the economics of this development to try to make it as feasible it's possible working of course with Ben Beni economics and to answer your question we did the best we can okay thank you and speaking of the I think the financial aspects I heard you guys say and I think there was a question about this too you're you're seeking a pilot and a RAB to to help the project feasibility but I just want to better understand does that mean that there's going to be a reduction in tax revenue for the city uh that the city might receive under typical pilot situ uh a typical pilot scenario because it's coupled with a RAB you know I'm not really sure we could bring Bob up to these questions but I just want to say that it'll obviously be significantly more than the city has ever gotten on this property thank you I I think that we just want to better understand a pilot is often talked about as uh additional F additional Revenue goes to the city I mean there there are uh it also means that revenue is not given to the school district but it's typically described as more revenue is provided to the city that might be received under a regular tax scenario but I think here by coupling it with a RAB it has a different result and so that's what I wanted to just make sure the council and the public had a little bit of information on would you guys mind if we brought up Ben economics I'm not really equipped to answer question didn't ask financial question is coming up yeah and to be fair I'm not asking for for for uh perform a description I just want no I appreciate that just some basic information for the public we wanted to get through all the planning questions first and then sure now Financial so okay and then anybody else you have all right no problem hello everyone hello city council my name is Bob beniki um a certified finance officer in state of New Jersey and written five textbooks for ruers University those are my credentials and on June 13th I'll be teaching another seminar to the legal profession on payment and tax programs and Redevelopment area bonds accept you as a profession so pay so payment in L of taxes are payments that are um provided for new developments in L of regular taxes a couple things that people don't realize and it may not be applicable here is that the prior year taxes never get reduced I say never because there are two or three caveats in very very difficult situations but they're never reduced so if you're paying 150,000 today payment and L of tax program requires you to pay 150,000 at least forever more so you never lose taxes payment of L of tax program has statutory floors and it has a t statutory construct under long-term tax exemption law it gets really difficult to to navigate it sometimes and then you have Redevelopment area bonds you also have Redevelopment bonds now that are actually more popular in way Redevelopment area bonds is that any project that's designated in Redevelopment area and has a Redevelopment plan you can have a Redevelopment area Bond issued for any project cost doesn't matter what could be ceiling t it could be a pool it could be anything and those Redevelopment area bonds are paid for by the pilot that's called a pledge PGE pledge it a pilot to the Redevelopment area Bond on an annual basis you can have non-recourse which means it's not in the balance sheet of the city it only is supported by the um by the pilot or you can have recour bonds which are supported by the pilot but they're also on the balance sheet of the city so here what we're proposing is a$ 45 to $50 million project of which we're going to quote unquote save the church from lack of better word there may be a better word than that preserve it historically preserve it that's going to cost about $35 million we're going to provide for the extra parking deck level and it's Subterranean so it's difficult to build that's going to cost about another $3.5 million we're going to provide 15 affordable housing units the difference between a market rate unit and an affordable housing unit is quite great in terms of value we lose about $140,000 at least in value per unit it's $2.1 million and then we have a unique circumstance with the $140,000 over what the course of the initially just like that as soon as you build it youco it you want to go to sell it your costs are about 450,000 you can get Maybe 00,000 for the unit for affordable housing unit so you're building something for $500,000 that really you can only sell for 300,000 okay but what do you use lose over the course of 20 or 30 years you lose a a multiple of that about two and a half times that on on a cash flow basis okay so then we get into the issue of the church has a unique circumstance with the elevators and Ada that's about another $400,000 of of difficult management if you will of the um exterior and interior of the building so if you add those four buckets up you get 3 and a half million another 3 and a half million 2.1 million and then approximately 400,000 that comes out to a package of about $9 million so in our $50 million budget we have $9 million to quote unquote preserve the church and provide you affordable housing and do everything in the right way including the affordable housing units so what we're looking for is instead of having regular taxes on the increased investment in the city that we would have a payment and Loof tax program included in the pay payment and Loof tax program are credits of approximately $5.1 million against the $9 million increase so that we have public support if you will through the pilot over time for the $5.1 million that's what we're asking for so we're going to we're going to invest 50 we need $5 million approximately from the city to make the the financials work and we can do that all through the payment and L tax program Beth what was your question exactly I I think I thank you very much that was a lot of information I think that what what you're basically saying is that the $5 million that the project requires from the city to make to make a project work will ultimately come from the pilot payments absolutely is that correct that's correct okay right that's that's essentially the pilot or the r it's through pilot and and what the the the way we structured it is the Redevelopment area Bond would be approximately half that $2.6 million the other half of the $5 million would be Advanced payment of the pilot which we would get credited back we get credit back over a 20-year period period no interest so we put the money up front you get the pilot money and we take a credit for The Upfront cost of 2.4 $2.5 million extra so we split split it in half half Redevelopment area Bond and half credits to the pilot and whatever is left over the city retains and gets okay what would the rents be for the apartments the average rent including the parking for the market would be approxim $3,500 the average rent for the affordables would be approximately $ 900 a little bit more 3500 for one or two or three that's Blended together I I have the schedule but it's it's Blended okay I think it's about I think it's about $3 $350 a square foot it's $3.50 it's $40.50 a square foot over the course of a year and what's the affordable the affordable is about $910 perhaps a little bit more0 Yeah on a blended basis in other words if you look at all the Departments all the household size and and you know shake it all together it's about $110 I'm sorry $910 saying median numbers $9 numbers I'm going to say it's above my pay grade as far as you're a professional have you crunched the numbers yet and like figured out like okay and you don't have to answer like if you got the pilot and you got the RAB right now the city's getting $25,000 a year in taxes the way it sits what would we get if you did this would would we get 200,000 a year no would we get $100,000 a year probably not what would we get without getting into details this was taxes and property so you essentially got nothing but now we're getting 25 as long as it's not appealed and as long as that's in place let's assume it is 25,000 you get probably $40 to $75,000 net net however over time time as rents grow and as the credits fall off that moves up to $650 and a million dollar now it's a generation from now no question it's 15 to 20 years but the investment in the city that you save the church get those ameni spaces you get the affordable housing and you you go from 75,000 to 675 over the course of maybe 15 to 20 years how long is the pile the pile is going to be 30 years but the credits are 20 years in the Redevelopment area Bond we have scheduled for 255 and we'll have the rents increasing so you get the benefit of all that and you get the benefit of rolling off of the subsidies it's actually pretty straightforward at least in my world but not anyone else's but all right all right well I mean it's it's actually pretty pretty straightforward and if you think about it two years ago you're getting nothing we preserved the church when you say getting nothing you keep saying that but we $25,000 a year just now just just now it was it was nothing and the reason you're getting I don't mean to interrupt you but the reason you're getting something and all these are great questions is that Joe and Aussie and Mountain View and the development company has invested in the property to go ahead and do something like this so you know they're invested into getting their return as well and you're going to see everything you know we'll show it to the Redevelopment Council we'll show everything to to Beth whoever you know it's not it's going to be an open book it's subject to audit they're subject to a separate special purpose entity and I'm not talking about a municipal audit I'm talking about it's a true Gap audit that's filed with the state we have to do all of those steps that the public really doesn't understand sometimes but it's a rigorous process we have to go through and the local Finance board will have to approve it as well right so the heavy lift is the church I mean that's a fair statement financially heavy lift is the church so as you know there is a sacrifice with saving this church that I just want people to be aware of as somebody wants to save the church but there was a financial sacrifice to that and just like it's a long-term investment on our company to hold this building as a rental project it's not going to make money right away it's you know not going to make money in five years or whatever the case may be we're hoping that rents will stabilize and interest rates will come down and we'll be in a better economic climate it's definitely an investment for the city as well it's a long-term investment for the city as well so I don't know if that makes sense I didn't speak like Bob did and you know with with that type of manner and you know knowing that much but it's definitely it's definitely a long-term investment to be able to keep this building and turn this building into a performing arts center community and the higher the revenues go and the rents go the more money the city gets so right that's correct the the the pilot I'm sure you guys know this the pilot a service charge off the rents of what the building gets so right now it's $3 $33.50 a square foot and 10 years from now it might be $4 a square foot or $4.50 a square foot so the payment to the city also goes up as the rents go up and as the building makes more money and again for the church the church is not going to make money right now but in 10 years from now it's going to make money and the city will collect a lot more money on on the proceeds from the church the church building right now we can't right now we can't charge you know it has to be a very nominal rent right now to be able to to get businesses to go in there and flourish and and be able to be successful but in five or 10 years from now you know we the hopes are that those businesses are successful and rents can go up and and the building can be sustainable on its own and pay for itself and during that time when the building gets more money then the city's going to get more money just like the same thing with the apartment building next door and you envision Joe that lot of these Artisans would be local this would be a a you know the desire would be to go as local as you can I do I do I think that there's a lot of businesses in Asbury Park that uh a lot of entrepreneurs in Asbury Park that have a great idea and you know can't pay the 36 bucks a square foot on cookman Avenue um you know so they they get a start it's a it's a lower entry you know it's a lower barrier of entry for a lot of businesses anybody else have any questions no I want to thank you guys I know this is going back and forth oh sorry uh maybe just two more questions do you guys have any have you can given any consideration to green or sustainability features in the building uh we have not yet because we haven't got to engineering we're just doing our architecturals right now but that that'll definitely be thought about and that's definitely something to to something you consider okay and then uh I just want to make sure I heard the parking numbers right I I I have some conflicting notes so I think I heard 150 seats for the basement theater correct for the Asbury Theater Company on the main Flor there are 214 seats and that includes the restaurant right and then there's additionally 50 people uh or so that might occupy the office spaces in the basement as well that's great and those offices are those going to be limited to uh work spaces for other tenants of the building like the artist or is that open Office opportunities but it might might it be for a small firm as well like a lawyer it could be for a small firm but it could also be for the tenants upstairs that need additional space or Advent space okay yeah and from from some of the people that we've spoken to in the in the local community that have space at Asbury Park you know I'll show them the building the main level of the building and they're like yeah this is beautiful but you know I need a film room downstairs or you know I need a uh we need a conference room or we need a place that we could have meetings so the conference room on the lower level level is is open to everybody in the church where people could you know schedule out the time that they're using for the conference space but beyond that for the other businesses that are upstairs they might need you know administrative space and might take small office space downstairs that's very possible and I think that's going to happen with a lot of the EVS okay and then the last question I had just to make sure I've got correct notes on the parking you said the for the 64 spaces that are allocated to the residential uses each of the two and three bedroom units will receive one parking space reserved for free right and then the remaining spaces will be allocated at a lottery for cost for the residential units that's correct yep yes okay and then the 55 spaces on the the the first floor of the parking deck that'll be that's intended to serve all of the uh the demand generated by the church that by the St way we have it scheduled right now is there's a parking deck for one parking deck goes directly for the church and the other parking deck is for the apartment building great thank you those are all my questions and we should also keep in mind that that parking deck that's for the church building I can't imagine that being filled all the time I understand probably on the weekends Fridays and Saturdays it you know might be filled up but I think there's my opinion there's going to be a lot of empty parking spaces on that on that parking deck that's specific for the church building that's and that opens up another question and ballpark you got a restaurant so you need a chef you need a couple waitresses you need this you've got the offices say you're only 50% lease amount on an average day with nothing going on how many people are going to be in the church fall aart you're saying just employees yeah employees that that need parking so let say we presume they need parking they may ride a bicycle they may live next door yeah I mean so I don't know about that many um you're saying just employees though not not people that rent out theice employees but Al so no if I'm like you know the theater company I'm down there rehearsing I I don't know how to phrase it I mean like you right there's no event going on but I imagine the cafe probably having three or four employees I mean it's it's seating capacity wise it's it's a smaller Cafe right um 15 parking spaces okay yeah I would say 15 yeah yeah if I had to guess it would be 15 and if the council uh would like maybe a parking uh if the council wants to proceed with this maybe a a shared parking study might be helpful to try to understand the parking demand from the various uses I'm not so sure I follow you uh it's a it's a study that would identify the various uses in the church as well as the residential building and identify the parking demand generated by each one so they Council can can better understand the parking impact to the extent that the garage is going to uh fill that parking demand that's going to be created by the site yeah we could we could definitely do that not problem thank you and again I'm not trying to make this negative whatsoever I was going to start off by saying you guys are hitting the trifecta that you've gone up since the trifecta I mean of all the projects presented to us this would be substantially the most dense this would be substantially the one with the least round of parking and then you're asking for a pilot but now a RAB with the pilot and you're telling me we may get $45,000 a year went on a similar project down the street we're getting 200,000 a year so I mean so the taxpayers are basically and correct me if I'm wrong put the bill for the church we don't we don't know if that $445,000 number is correct we haven't got I didn't say it I didn't use it yeah okay well I'm just saying Financial expert okay well I'm just telling you that we we don't know we don't know what that number is we haven't gotten that far with the profarma we understand that the project needs a pilot and it needs a RAB needs a Redevelopment area Bond and it needs a payment in Le of taxes um the Redevelopment area I don't think is a problem I have no problem with the PO okay I mean the p is a problem it's a RAB that we've never done before you're the first one to ask for RAB right so it's new to me it's new to everybody so it's something guys like WRA my arms around I'm sure with your help and with our financial people's help we'll get there and figure it out but I mean it can't be like it's got to be something like you know works for the city also mayor MOA let let me just explain for the for the Redevelopment area Bond it's a payment that comes off to service charge that let's say amortised over 20 or 25 years it's essentially for the second parking deck that in there plus the 88 elevator and and the amount of money that we have chur and we have to put into the church building we're paying for that up front we're amortizing that over 20 years where the city let's say off of their payment in Le of taxes pays a small percentage of that over 20 years because obviously the city's not going to pay us 600,000 or a million dollars or whatever is going to cost to do certain things on the building so basically what we're saying back to you is we're essentially financing it for you we're saying that we're going to include this into our 90 unit building and our construction budget of our 90 unit building take that money off of our construction budget which is going to have to be obviously paid back when everything stabilizes with our with our uh with our de you know our debt collector or whatever our bank um but that that comes off the the the Pilot service charge over the time of 20 or 25 years and you know I don't know if that answers it any better but you know I I don't know how that you know hurts the taxpayers in the city essentially yeah I don't know sometimes when you see them black away you understand it better than the conversation a conversation that we're open to Sure continually sure keep in mind as Joe said in in a very very nice way is that the taxpayers aren't going to have to pay anything more than today they're not going to pay any more they're going to get more money they're not going to pay anything L you can say that on night but for some reason it just goes in one here and not the other and okay that's my problem and just because problem we have the same I'll leave it that we have the same project down the street that's paying us a pilot and paying us $200,000 for like less density more parking and everything but they're not preserving a church and not building an extra Park so that's why we got to figure out the financials and again this is just the initial meeting I'm very happy that it happened I think you guys did a good presentation thank you guys for us here our feedback and you're going to start to hear the citizens feedback which is the most important thing I'm just going to say once again for everybody in the public if you want to talk you go to up to the microphone you get three minutes you can ask any question anything if you if you have multiple questions ask them all because when they answer when your three minutes is up your 3 minutes is up because we have quite a large crowd so and they will stay and answer the questions and again appreciate it and thank you very much and if you think of a question tomorrow you'll email us and we'll get you an answer so if you don't get your question in tonight it's not it's not like this is the only night you can ever ask a question about this pilot or about this pro project right anybody on APV can I could offer my email address as well public as well yeah whatever you want y you gotta go to the mic Tommy I don't want my minutes to start about that is the question and answer period supposed to be separate from the three minute commentary period at the end we haven't done that before okay because that's usually the case is that you're supposed to give the public the right to First cross-examine them and no statements and then the statements given at the end the is that council meeting or planning board and Zoning yeah we've never we've never done that before with any other Developers I I don't I would hate to start that with this project okay just because we've been consistent with each project so we're going to stay consistent okay you ready yeah we had matter from Council first oh nobody has it okay matter from city council council member Bez Anderson just wanted to say good evening and um you know just remember to love yourself if you didn't get anything for Valentine's Day give yourself a hug and a squeeze and Happy Valentine's thank you uh council member clay I just want to let residents know that there is going to be a construction job fair there are a number of jobs available it's going to be on Saturday February 24th between the hours of 1 and 3 at Interfaith neighbors and that's at 1201 Springwood Avenue thank you thank youut mayor uh I'm just going to piggy back on what John said earlier Asberry lost a real lgbtq icon Carol T who had clubs in Asbury Park resident of decades um our hearts go out to her wife Mickey and um and just want to say how sorry we are to lose Carol thank you mayor Moore I'll piggyback on that I wish Carol Tory was here tonight because in the 1980s and 90s the city's lawyer was Anne barbino and she would say something caror would say no but not look at anything you're wrong on page 132 subsection JC here's what it says she knew the Redevelopment plan better than the city's Redevelopment attorney and she was a complete asset to the city she served I think 13 years on the housing authority and just a very nice person was a Trends Setter for the country if not the state so again our wishes go out to Mickey and the rest of the family thank you thank you madon the city manager yes thank you uh pleased to announce that the city is receiving a New Jersey leading Capital construction projects award from New Jersey Alliance for Action uh this award was created to highlight Innovative pioneering and landmark construction initiatives in the city and it will greatly impact this the the state's economy and to honor the businesses and organizations that work together to ensure the project success thank you m from the city attorney nothing at this time thank you we're now on to public participation I have a motion to open the meeting to the public move it second all in favor I public participation portion is now open any member of the public who wishes to speak please use the microphone state your name and address for the record there will be a three minute time limit for each speaker again please state your name and address for the record good evening Bob Stevens 704 2 Avenue appreciate the fact that the May and Council has addressed a lot of the issues that we're all already concerned with and uh we appreciate that uh however living directly across the street from the uh the major residential building and the uh access I guess is driveway uh parking um the main concern is the parking and that's already been addressed on several elements here uh we've already got limited parking and there is absolutely no activity at that property currently we will now have a a mini complex really and thank you mayor for addressing that uh getting an estimate or guesstimate of how many uh individuals would be occupying the buildings um in any given day and or night now I noticed the picture also indicating that you've got a rock band or drums or something we already experienced that from the corner uh La cornita I don't know if that's actually permitted for them but they have a dance club there and the base goes through the walls you can't stop the base from going through the walls we're already looking at a possibility of having a band and activity on a nightly basis or weekends or whatever it may be uh aside from the fact that you're going to have an overwhelming amount of people parking all street parking it's already it's already difficult for people that live there and we're talking about the 700 block right across the street from this old whole complex directly across the street uh that is an issue and what what the businesses will be in there that's the question uh could be anything I've heard restaurant I've heard Cafe well when you have restaurant we've already got one at the coronita on weekends given weekends noise any old time of day you want goes right up through 2 2:30 in the morning on the weekends it's another another area to be addressed but currently I can see this turning into uh you know a complex with a lot more traffic whether that justifies how many spots do you have off off uh off street parking it I don't me personally I'm not a professional in that area I don't see it happening and it's already going to be congested with the current residents that do live there with the activity as well that's my question uh you know what what effect can that have I know that's a it's a long question and you can't answer that now but that's just something that I think needs to be directed and that's an immediate problem would be the parking I know there's a compromise I know it's money I know it's an investment you're out to make money of course the city needs to have that justified it's a back and forth I understand compromise it has to be that way but bottom line is yeah we're going to hear the noise and yeah we're going to pick up the tab I thank you okay thank you for your statement thank you state Thomas Deno 3600 Route 36 in Neptune I'd like to know if the developers um uh real estate agent was telling the truth when she gave a TV interview and said the following according to Elizabeth spuer the real estate agent in charge of selling Holy Spirit the church was purchased by jld Investment Group she stressed that the buyer signed a contract that will prevent them from tearing Holy Spirit down so the first question is was she telling the truth when she said there's a contract when they bought the property that they could never tear that building down secondly will the city council to to finally settle that issue demand to see a certified copy of the contract because you need to know what's going to happen to this property if this doesn't go through because according to the realtor they could never remove that building so that's important for you to know um I'd like everyone to stop falling for the term we're going to save the church okay the church is gone our awful Bishop deconsecrated it that's emotional propaganda they're just trying to get people who are only paying half attention to go yes Save the church that's what we want and then not listen to the rest of what they're saying stop saying save the church that's not happening the two plans are either to knock it knock the old church building down or got it nobody's saving the church on the issue of whether they would ever knock it down I want to bring up some financial matters because they're asking with the pilot for the taxpayers to be their business partner and with the RAB they're asking to use your credit and get a loan from you instead of a bank so their finances are important they purchased this property for $17 million they took a mortgage it's on file with the county for $1.7 million they put zero of their own liquidity in what does that tell you they're not confident enough in this project to use their own liquidity they're using yours and the taxpayers with a pilot and and the bonding issue please don't fall for that don't make these people their business partners if they think it can work let them use their own money no cross no cross let them use their own money also if you go on the state's Courts website you're going to find they're being sued in Three Counties four lawsuits for things like not paying workers and not paying for materials the reason why that's important to do the RAB they have to actually be a guarantor of the payment why would you allow any deal where the city has to bond with taxpayer credit taxpayer fund using them as a guarantor when they're not even paying Carpenters drywall hangers in three different counties that they're currently being sued on so I'm ask can you please don't fall for it they're not using their own liquidity you don't want the taxpayer to be their partner and I believe a lot of you campaigned against Pilots because they do hurt the taxpayer and I can explain why if I get another three minutes okay thank you I don't know if you want to is that a question or statement it was both the first question was when he played the tape if you want to answer it fine if you don't want to answer it the answer from the city is like first time we're hearing about we ask our lawyers to look into it but uh I can't answer it now so Fred who would look into that you or Eric we will both look into it I asor answer you I mean we have the realt here that he was saying that was talking on the phone so she could come up and speak if you guys would like no let me go to the microphone can't believe nobody else wants to speak was there another was there another hi Carrie Turner 514 7th Avenue Asbury Park um also the executive director of the Asbury Park Arts Council um tonight I'm here representing the APAC board because we did discuss this last night at our meeting In fairness Mr Hannah's uh assistant reached out to me last week which is the first interaction that we've had um we reviewed the project overview memo that was submitted a few weeks ago and also the plans we had some initial reactions I would say the APAC is actually very interested in the church being reused as an arts and culture center but as we've heard tonight this is really complex and not very straightforward so one thing um I'm going to run through them quickly as the mayor asked I think the public would benefit from knowing what happens after tonight um in terms of steps and opportunities for more public interaction that's one thing several of our immediate questions was how much of the proforma is dependent on the income of the Arts uses in the church because we know it's kind of a loser as we've talked about uh and Amy hit on a lot of the things that we're concerned with which is what are the guarantees that the church Arts Center Arts use uh stays that way um whether it's in perpetuity or for a period of time that runs with the the the pilot uh you answered what phase of construction it's going to come in we'd like to know uh what existing Art Center models you looked at uh for the uses that you put in there I think Beth hit it when she talked about uh modeling the intensity of those uses uh I wanted to know if you had reviewed the recently adopted arts and culture plan that the city passed there's some really good information in there that could help inform some of the uses um another one is one operator going to be considered for all of those uses you going to have a master tenant that's going to lease those things and sort of make sure that everything gets um I guess managed the way you were talking about uh it sounded to me like there could be 400 people in the building at one time if not managed properly with 66 structured parking spaces potentially um so I think that's forthcoming is what it sounds like wanted to know if you had any prospective tenants lined up I'm excited if it is in fact you've gained traction with some of that that would be very interesting for us to know wanted to know if You' considered partnering with any groups that are excuse excuse me serving Youth and seniors because that is something that came out of the arts and culture plan is that having those types of activities for those specific groups is something that's very important um your drawing showed a potential bar uh wanted to know what your ability to get a liquor license would be and you talked about parking for the events is that going to be contemplated to be paid parking uh free parking how much of it will be free when it's being used by the community versus uh perhaps a paid event and then on the Artisan space specifically you can finish you can finish the you can finish the sentence okay The Artisan spaces it looked like there were either 10 or 12 that were open and so it it's a difficult model I don't understand how an artist is going to come there and work and sell uh if they can't lock up their space so it's an open space I just it's it's more questions about how that first floor gets managed because it sounds good but I don't know how practical it is and so it's more you know how does that work and that goes okay that's a long sentence I know done thank you Carrie do you want to answer any question I could I could definitely answer some of them but I kind of lost track after answer what you can and then Carrie why don't you send us the list and then more forwarded along it was a lot of questions yeah I can also give you my email address and I can answer those questions okay that will work okay that's why I make notes because I forget the questions I should have brought my sstem uh mine is more of a comment is that okay thank you so much uh thank you so much for inviting me here this evening my name is Brian O'Brien I live at 1615 Park Avenue here in Asbury Park I was born and raised in Monmouth Beach New Jersey and I'm a professional actor and I have gained from the uh the Arts uh that is provided to us here in our community and I'm also a board member of the asur Park Theater confy and we find it to be very important that this opportunity May befall us that we have a home a space that we can use and we spoke about youth uh one of the great aspects of the Asbury Park Theater Company is our Our Youth Development programs in which we have a school of dramatic arts where we bring students from all around the county but most importantly Mama I'm sorry asber Park uh to be a part of our summer programs and the information that they learn and gain and the confidence they gain you know public speaking is one of the most challenging things to do even as a professional actor I've had the Grace of working on Broadway for the past 27 years uh in six Productions uh and coming back here to Asbury Park to give back to our community is really important to me so to have a a a development like this in our home and possibly a home space for our theater company is really really important to us and also adding an Arts Hub to the center of Asbury Park we did speak about uh cookman and the Waterfront Redevelopment but it's also exciting to see to see something to bring people Arts you know galleries are all around the city but to to really bring it into The Heart of the City second and Main you know is a really important thing we're a nonprofit organization so we are able to raise money that is uh will help partner with the city to do some you know Outreach programs to the youth and to the community and enhance what is already being done in the Arts here in asbery park so so we really do stand behind this it is exciting uh we are looking forward to working with the the other artists I know that the it's the music Foundation also I think is excited about this project as well so I just think it's important for us to come together and most importantly to to save the structure I know that we uh we were respectfully still calling it a church but I hope that it stays and uh and blesses us for in perpetuity as you had said so thank you again for your evening and your time I appreciate it thank you have a good day next Jessica Ro has 52 second a as Park um so I guess some of my questions was kind of you might have touched Briant on it but M me personally uh I do have three questions but you know um I did grw up in ASB Park and I attend Holy Spirit church so I was there through the whole development of the basement you know the mass and everything as some of you are here um So the plan of being a bar and I like the Arts and everything however it just doesn't feel right in my heart um so I think you might have asked this qu you might have answered this question but my question is is you said to the public what kind of audience are you targeting as a parent um who as a parent um can school/ kids are able to use the space freely I am an educator and work with children and the kids and families need a good guidance and support in this community um and the place in the community needs that so I need we need to uplift this community as working together because I am looking for ways that we can do that and I will support that so I get it it's all business um I have that mindset but again I work with children I work with them this community is not just one race it's a lot so me working me like I've been here when asber Park was nothing it was literally nothing so I like that we are uplifting the community I like that we're doing this however feel like sometimes and it's my opinion that this is just like business not just the community so again I feel like as even having that power that you have and hopefully me one day I'm there but having that power that you have is it again just be there show up to the school show up to help and hand in need to these families because again they need a good guidance and you're a mom you know we all parents here we need a good guidance in our in our kids and again it's the mindset so I would just say that if you're going to again I'm not sure about this idea I don't like it um in the first place but can schools again we need to we need to look at the education site as well with the children because they are the future and we are adults and we have to have that and they have we have to have them in mind so that's all I can say thank you thank you thank you anybody else see nobody I make a motion to close move to close surprised all in favor too now or never folks I have a motion D too late move to close move to close second I just have a a quick question I think for the good of the discussion Danbury Park you know um this project was on track after uh you know planning board denial and uh litigation by the developer and it got to the point where I think a demolition permit was was either applied for taken out so it appeared to be um situation where the developer if they wanted to could go forward and demolish the building after the litigation after getting the permit assuming there's not a contractual provision that Tommy brings up that prevents them from doing so I I'd be shocked because they they certainly took a lot of action that didn't seem like they were restricted in that regard anyway my question for the good of discussion is we're talking about the church not doing the church um could the developer tell us right now what they can build about these six family homes about how big they are what would happen to the site the number of bedrooms because there is something that will happen if if this project isn't approved and you know maybe the project won't be approved for good reasons I mean there could be good reasons you may not be able to come to an agreement on financials may not be able to come to agreement on parking obviously a lot of people myself included including want to see the um the church structure preserved we know the church has gone but the structure itself preserved and have a creative use like this but you know it's not like we're operating in a vacuum here if these discussions fa fail hopefully they won't but if they have to fail I think it would be nice for the discussion to hear what happens next with these six single family homes and some details about them including including sure yeah you want me to talk about the six SLE family houses sure there's six bedroom seven bathroom houses the R1 Zone gives it excuse me the R1 go R1 Zone gives a pretty generous building envelope on there so there's not there's not uh we hav't through the height but I I think the height restriction is very generous on them um they're large six bedroom seven b homes six bedroom seven b homes is what they were scheduled for yeah yeah y yeah they're pretty big homes driveways yeah of course driveway frontload and garages we can form to um the R1 Zone completely and you would arguably not need a pilot for that that's correct right but I also if we're going to bring that up and we're talking about financials um what these six single family houses the tax revenue that these six single family houses would bring to the city would still be less than repurposing the church okay I don't know if that's true we're hearing about the RAB and $45,000 well we don't know exactly what that is but I I don't know about that $445,000 right now the last time before the RAB before adding the parking deck it was significantly more money than that it was the parking it was the second parking deck that really added the RAB on to it that brought it down significantly before that it was around $160,000 as opposed to $70,000 so it was double what the six single family houses brought I'm trying to do quick math I do I think people need to keep right there's sa there's gives and takes either way do you want six houses with driveways that look like they could be on Route 9 I don't know maybe people do do do you want to save a historic structure I don't know maybe people do do you want 90 condos I don't know maybe people do but the fact is is there's going to be gives right you're if if you get the house there's no pilot right if you these six we get six tow houses that look like I'm sure any other townhouse in Asbury Park if you want to save the structure of the church well then there's going to be a pilot and there's probably going to be some parking issues but there you know people need to think about this this istically and where do you want to live in 10 years do you want to live next to six family houses or do you want to live next to a historic structure well I mean um yeah I guess that's and the flip side to that is if Mr Dano is correct and our lawyers check guys let me just say Mr Sano is completely incorrect the guy's a liar and he was already brought by judge Thorton and said that he was a liar and he had an ethicist complaint against him everything that he says a liar you're more than welcome to check us up you're going to find okay no problem but so when he asked the question you didn't answer so you're saying it was more of a statement not a question he asked did the deed have a restriction that it does not let me let me clearly say that right now does not the realtor I don't know why the realtor said that at some point but you could bring her up if she'd like there's no restrictions on demolishing that building we would have had a problem pulling the demo permit and getting it approved that that was the case so problem we wouldn't we wouldn't close on the property was unanswered until right now excuse me it was unanswered before now it's answered right are we to see that of course you can yeah of course you can public record the deed is a public record and by the way we own the property outright and and the lender on the property made so contract we we've been fairly good so far so seeing nobody else at the microphone I'm going to make a motion to close here we go no you're no problem I apologize it's okay hi my name is Robin manyy I have an apartment on 8th Avenue we have a business uh that we opened up in 2020 during Co that is we're going under and we are doing well your address uh 8th Avenue 303 fth AV uh Apartment 5 thank you I also live in how too so two residencies so anyways been here a long time met my husband 41 years ago in Stone Pony and love this place and yes I was at the 50th I'm very proud of that I just want to thank the Developers for at least coming up with something versus destroying the historical Holy Spirit Church I don't know many developers that can come to a town and do such things but I know there's a few other ones that have preserved Asbury Park I think it's in the heart of many people to preserve and to help the community on the what other side you you live on it's very important for me as a business owner that we reach out and we come to an agreement to help parking's going to be an issue over there there it was for the church it will be for everybody so you have to work around those things there's a community that lives there they may not want a bar they may not want that drama that goes around with it come to cookman we can show you the we can show you the livelihood of that so those things you need to consider but the most important thing is conserving um preserving our history the only idea that I would have for this board or anybody if they're planting this stuff when these events come into the city see here now whatever it else put a $5 fee on that ticket and put it towards something like a preservation act that we can save the community like the paramont theater like convention hall hello in the 70s we had concerts here look at the history follow it don't repeat bad mistakes and I'm very thankful for people that will stand up and do the right thing so the church will stand thank you Robin thank you motion to close all in favor I public participation portion is now closed thank you thank [Music] you let's take uh two minute break so everybody who wants to leave can leave and we can conduct our business so if you're not staying Take It Outside if you're not staying for the rest of the meeting please take your conversations outside we solve a rest of the meeting to [Music] conduct ladies and gentlemen we have we have at least another hour of business we have to do so if you're going to leave please take your conversations outside so we can take care of City business thank you who yeah tell her to stop talking and take the outside you're good to go you guys want to talk outside see she tells me during meetings everyone please take your conversations outside we still have the rest of the meeting to conduct thank you thank you thank you than for Amy to get back and you can start you can start at anyway we don't need our own minutes and anything she's back we're on to the minutes I have the executive meeting minutes and regular meeting minutes of the January 31st 2024 meeting do I have a motion move it second council member Bez Anderson council member Ivon council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor quinnn yes mayor Moore yes we're now on to consent agenda resolution all matters listed on the consent agenda are presented collectively to the city council and will be considered for approval with one vote these matters are considered to be routine and nature and there will be no individual discussion on these items if discussion is desired by one or more council members as to any particular item then said item shall be removed from the consent agenda and considered separately on consent agenda we have resolutions 2024 105 through 2024 109 well Rita got her seat back so all is right now do I have a motion on consent a little bit second council member Bez Anderson yes council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes we're now on to individual resolutions resolution 20 24110 resolution approving payment of bills move it second second Council memberz Anderson council member Clayton Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 92 this is a resolution authorizing a Professional Services contract to hackin sack Meridian team Health PC for employment exams in physicals this was the table resolution yes does anyone want to make a motion to further table table was Len I have a second to Second council member Bez Anderson table council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes this resolution has been tabled to the February 28th 2024 meeting resolution 2024 111 a resolution authorizing the purchase of rock salt as needed for the 2024 winter season move it second council member Bez Anderson yes council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 1112 resolution authorizing purchase of ammunition for the police department move it second council member Bez Anderson yes council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 113 resolution approving change order number two for Memorial Drive sanitary improvements move it second council member Bez Anderson council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 1114 resolution authorizing the renewal of various storage units with Life Storage move it second council member Bez Anderson council member Clayton yes yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 115 resolution awarding a contract to Mammoth Telecom for telephone and internet service second council member Bez Anderson yes council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 116 resolution authorizing a contract for real property data collection and verification Services move it second council member Bez Anderson council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 20241 17 resolution authorizing a new heating and cooling unit needed at the transportation and Social Services building second council member Bez Anderson council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 1118 resolution authorizing payment to Community Affairs Resource Center for a public facility upgrade through Community Development block rant cdbg funding move second council member Bez Anderson yes council member Clayton yes mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 1119 has been removed from tonight's agenda we'll move on to 2024 1220 resolution appointing The Firm of community grants planning and housing to serve as housing rehabilitation program administrator and authorizing the execution of an agreement for Professional Services Associated there with move it second council member when this is discussed at Agenda meeting we were told it wouldn't exceed 175 it does exceed 175 did we ever get a number what this is going to cost per year or is it dependent on how many inspections they do uh so this is a separate contract right so we had the administrative Grant uh agent at the reort this is for um Rehabilitation but how many it's a monthly flat Fe of 9 per month for a total of 11400 per contract [Music] Year and that that's for the that's for data Administration there would be other fees for any additional services does anybody know what those additional Services would cost ballpark no a year I mean 10,000 50,000 100,000 no no it's I don't believe it's a lot it would be things that we would need them to do that like they just recently gave us a manual but um as you know this is for um our if this is a my for our housing rehabilitation program okay thank you okay so I have a motion a second uh roll call council member Bez Anderson thank you council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinton yes mayor Moore yes resolution 202 4121 resolution appointing The Firm of mar zidian Falcon LLP to serve a special conflict Council to obtain an easement with New Jersey Transit for the asber park new Fire Department headquarters and authorizing the execution of an agreement for professional legal services associated there with move it second Council memberz Anderson council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 1222 resolution authorizing the Professional Services contract with tnm Associates for professional environmental engineering Services move it second council member Bez Anderson yes council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 20241 123 resolution authorizing award to Mammoth County SPCA for animal control services move it second Council memberz Anderson yes council member uh Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 20244 resolution awarding a bid for intersection improvements at bangs Avenue and Prospect Avenue move it second Council M question and just to remind everybody this is one of the busiest intersections in the city with the school so we're going to try to do the majority of the work during the summer months correct yes okay r call counc council member Bez Anderson yes council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 1225 resolution of the mayor and City Council of the city of Asbury Park referring proposed amendments to the Main Street Redevelopment plan to the city of Asbury Park planning board and directing the planning board to take certain actions pursuant to njsa 40a colon 12 a-7e move it second council member Bez Anderson council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 20241 126 resolution authorizing the city of Asbury Park to execute a license agreement to permit a limited encroachment into the rightaway area adjacent to the property located at 615 6th Avenue block 3 307 Lot 19 relating to a brick retaining wall situated along 6th Avenue corner of Bond Street and 6th Avenue in Asbury Park New Jersey move it second council member Bez Anderson yes council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Mo yes resolution 20241 127 resolution authorizing the city of Asbury Park to execute a license agreement for encroachment into an area of the city right away adjacent to the property located at 550 cookman Avenue block 3105 Lot 4 mve second council member Bez Anderson council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 128 resolution of the city of Asbury Park referring the proposed Redevelopment plan for 121 Memorial Drive city of Asbury Park Mammoth County block 203 lot 5 dated February 5th 2024 in accordance with the local Redevelopment and Housing law njsa 4A call 12a do I have a motion move it it council member Bez Anderson yes council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 1229 resolution supporting Mammoth County's Federal funding application under the US Department of transportation's fiscal year 2024 raise grant for improvements along Asbury Avenue between State Highway 35 and Ocean Avenue North in townships of Neptune and ocean in the city of Asbury Park moving second council member of council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes and there's a meeting tomorrow at City this building right here council chambers uh from 4:30 to 7 dealing with Asbury Avenue from the Neptune border to Ocean Avenue so if anybody wants to attend that it's tomorrow Thursday here at the council chambers and it's is it sharett's James or is it like a presentation it's a public comments where we will set everyone's ideas and concerns about it build off that thank you you 4:30 4:30 to 7 you don't have to stay the whole time make your comments and you go home resolution 2024 130 resolution of support of a grant award extension from the New Jersey Department of Transportation for the Asbury Avenue bikeways project and Prospect Avenue and bangs Avenue intersection upgrad project move it second council member buz Anderson council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes resolution 2024 131 resolution appointing council members to serve on certain internal standing committees and or to serve as Council liaison move it second council member Bez Anderson council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore yes we're now on to ordinances ordinance for introduction C ordinance 20243 ordinance of the city of ASB Park amending and supplementing certain sections of chapter 5 entitled beach boardwalk and beachfront regulations of the code of the city of Asbury Park in certain limited respects with a public hearing date of February 28th 2024 do I have a motion move it second council member Bez Anderson council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yep mayor Moore yes we're now on to Second reading public hearing of ordinances ordinance 20241 ordinance of the city of Asbury Park amending and supplementing various sections of chapter 2 entitled Administration and subsection 30-22 point1 establishment of section 30-22 Zoning Board of adjustment of chapter 30 Land Development regulations of the code of the city of Asbury Park FR would you be able to provide a brief overview on this ordinance yes in uh 2023 the law changed and um it relates to municipalities that have nonpartisan elections and in those towns um the terms of all elected council members now commence as of January 15th of the year as opposed to January 1st and the reorganization meeting is supposed to be held either at 12:00 noon on January 15th or within the 7-Day period thereafter rather than on January 1st or the 7-Day period thereafter so this is now just modifying our code to be uh consistent with the new state law since Asbury Park is a nonpartisan um election municipality thank you Fred um May a motion to open the public hearing on ordinance 20241 Mo open second second all in favor I public hearing on ordinance 202 24-1 is now open if any member of the public would like to speak please keep your comments on this ordinance only state your name and address for the record thank you move to close second all in favor I public hearing on ordinance 2024 D1 is now closed may have a motion to adopt 2024 D1 move to adopt second council member Bez Anderson council member Clayton Deputy Mayor Quinn yes mayor Moore I'll vote Yes but I gotta say it's one of the strangest Falls I've ever seen treat in P thank you dly noted we're now on to ordinance 202 24-2 ordinance of the city of Asbury Park amending and supplementing uh 4- 1.4 entitled fees of chapter 4-1 business licenses of chapter 4 General licensing of the code of the city of asra FR can you also provide a brief overview on this ordinance yes similar to the last this ordinance also is to effectuate some changes that um were um implemented at the state level by state law that require um uh businesses the owner of of rental units the and the owners of multif family homes to maintain certain insur insurance and also um um to set an annual fee for um a business insurance coverage registration that's required so um we're now putting into our code um some Provisions that were adopted at the state level um similar to the last ordinance thank you Fred may have a motion to open the public hearing on ordinance 20242 move to open second all in favor public hearing on ordinance 2024 D2 is now open any member of the public who' like to speak please use the microphone move to close second you getting up yeah oh did you repat that so there was a state law that was adopted that requires um businesses and the owners of rental units and multif family homes to maintain certain insurance coverage um and also it allows municipalities to um have an an annual registration relating to those types of businesses or units and there being a fee for an annual uh um certificate and we're putting those Provisions now into the city code that's it that's it may I have a motion to close the public hearing on ordinance 202 24-2 move to close second all in favor I I public hearing on ordinance 2024 D2 is now closed may have a motion to adopt ordinance 2024 d2 move stop second council member Bez Anderson council member Clayton yes Deputy Mayor Quinn yes are you yes and mayor Moore yes okay if no one has anything else we're on to adjournment I'll take motion to adjourn move to adjourn s all in favor I thank you everyone meting nowour