good evening everyone today is Monday June 3rd 2024 and this is a regular meeting of the planning board of Asbury Park chairwoman KAC will you please call this meeting to order yes this meeting is being held in compliance with the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 qu notice of this meeting has been provided to the coaster and Asbury Park Press by publication of the annual meeting notice and posted on the municipal ban board and Municipal website all notices are on file with the board secretary official action may be taken on the following matters before the board this meeting is being recorded by APV join me in the salute for flag congratulations FL the United States of America to the stand I will now take roll call James bonano here councilwoman Clayton here Eric galipo here Jim Henry here Jeremy Hoffman pres mayor Moore here Daniel shano here Jen saer here Vice chair Mike gon here and chairwoman Barbara KAC here right the first item on the uh oh actually um the first item on the agenda is the the CBD Redevelopment plan res Amendment recommendations um can I get a motion to approve the resolution um eligible members are James Eric Jim Jeremy mayor Moore Daniel Jen or vice chair mikuna Jim's not eligible correct Jim abstains I'll make a motion so Jim a second okay motion second okay um James banano yes Eric Alo yes Jeremy Hoffman yes mayor Moore yes Daniel shano yes Jen saer yes Vice chair gonan yes um Jack do we have for the that application that's moved do we have to do a a move without notice or are we doing which one the one that's the one first Redevelopment plan the Redevelopment plan is just going to be carried oh just going to be carried so we don't have to say there's notice we don't require notice if there's notice that's a directive from the mayor council okay so we so we don't okay all right uh first item on the agenda and only item on the agenda is 1210 Springwood Avenue chair when I reviewed all of the submissions that proper form we have jurisdiction Pro terrific okay um we have a couple of refusals um Jen sder and Council Sol and Clayton will be recusing themselves thank you Mike Mike you want to come up want up [Music] [Music] go ahead floor is yours thank you madam chair Mr Mayor members of the board John marora representing the applicant Interfaith neighbors Inc a nonprofit uh Corporation as you know we're here this evening for the proposed marora Center on Springwood Avenue between Atkins and Avenue a um the project um seated to my right is is Paul mcky who's the executive director of interfaith neighbors and he will explain the various uses uh that will be taking place here there are a number of them um but uh we uh are consistent with the Redevelopment plan we hope you will uh agree that we did we worked with the city quite a bit uh to come to this uh final plan before submitting I know there are two lengthy uh reports from the engineer and from the planner uh I spoke with both before the hearing we did after receiving those reports have a meeting here in the city uh went through them at length and and uh provided a resubmission they did not have time to do uh Revis reports but what I'll do is just well we'll go we'll go through the reports and you can decide what yeah exactly okay okay so if you could just speak into the microphone that would be helpful I know that it's sometimes it's hard to get closer to okay there we go thank you so for the record it's block 802 Lots 1 2 3 and 5 1206 to 1210 Springwood Avenue uh we have remote parking on Mount piscop Baptist uh proposing it on Mount piscop Baptist Temple property uh which is 3 130131 Springwood Avenue uh and we did provide 200 foot notice from both both properties we have Representatives I believe from the temple here this evening we also one of the uses is the ASB Park Museum Society we have Representatives here as well I don't intend to call them unless you have questions and would like to hear from them although they might like to speak at the public portion of the comment um with that I I think rather than waste your time telling you what everybody's going to say I'll turn it over to Mr mcky have him sworn and he can explain to you the exact nature of what is being proposed here please raise your right hand and Sam Don as well all of you sign and swear airm testimony about giv this the truth all truth and nothing but the truth it I do Paul please state your name and your affiliation with the applicant uh Paul mcev and I am the executive director at Interfaith neighbors okay Donna Don board planner great thank you floor is yours John okay thank you very much uh so Paul why don't you explain the history first of all I guess of interfaith neighbors and uh uh the proposal at this intersection yes thank you John and thank you for hearing us this evening uh so a little bit about the interface neighbors uh we're 36 years young as a not not for-profit Community benefit agency thanks Don pull the mic further away from We're 36 years young as a non for-profit agency our service territory is all of Mammoth County we offer a wide array of programs U mortgage and rental assistance which is how we started as an agency 36 years ago we operate the senior meal program on behalf of Mammoth County a th meals a day we develop affordable housing uh we have a neighborhood revitalization plan focused on the west side of Asbury Park we operate an urban farm also on the west side and our newest Venture the Dr Lorenzo Harris Jr Early Childhood Center on Atkins Avenue on the west side for children 3 months to four years all of what we do fits under an umbrella that could be broadly defined as described as building healthier more Equitable communities we do have a special focus on Asbury Park and in fact on the west side where we have an approved neighborhood revitalization plan which makes us El eligible for certain uh tax credits within the state of New Jersey some of the programs we offer are Workforce Development Economic Development A Community Food Connection program we sponsor and coordinate a Westside mural program we sponsor and coordinate uh just recently held asbury's Got Talent Asbury Parks Got Talent an annual competition we operate the launch Center our launch Center on Springwood Avenue launch your career launch your businesses launch your life at the launch Center we have a never say no approach so anybody who walks to that door in in search of services we try to accommodate them if we can't do it we'll find someone to help them as a community based uh I I should also say that we have ongoing collaborations with many other nonprofits in town uh the Boys and Girls Club Big Brothers Big Sisters Coastal Habitat for Humanity uh the asbery Park Housing Authority uh the kazek brothers who operate largely on the west side and Inspire life all of whom are collaborative Partners on one Grant or another as a community based developer of affordable housing we've uh developed over 6 units of housing in Asbury Park alone we operate a pathway to home ownership program on the west side of Asbury Park we build facilities on the west side for covenant house so they could operate their rights of Passage program there for young adults from the city who lack stable housing and we've just completed a mixed income project uh Parkview AP on Springwood Avenue at the same intersection where our application is tonight our lar largest project to date was the Springwood Center development project which we completed in 2012 um it's 27,500 Square ft um it's the first new commercial space on Springwood Avenue since the Civil disturbances of 1970 Interfaith neighbors retains 55% ownership the city of as Park owns 45% there's uh uh location for the asber Park Police Department in the building the City Senior Center is in the building our launch Center is in the building and we have eight affordable rental units on the third floor of Springwood Center while in construction on that project in 2010 2011 Interfaith neighbors had the opportunity to buy the middle lot in the block across the street um we took that opportunity and acquired that property in 2010 uh as a way to protect our investment and the city's investment on the Block across from Springwood Center thinking that at some point someone would come along and want to do an assemblage there and we owned the middle of the block uh back in 2010 2011 little did we think that Interfaith neighbors would be have the opportunity to basically asend resemble the balance of the block so of the five tax Lots on that block across from stringwood Center we own four the only part of the lot we do not a block we do not own is what's occupied by the Turf Club um so the application you have before you this evening for preliminary and final site plan approval is our Memorial center uh this is a 30,000 ft² mixed use building on the first floor we'll have space permanent space for the asay park museum there will be lobbies and Building Services also on the first floor the second floor there'll be early childhood Learning Center for four and 5ye olds which will complement the Dr Len har Harris Center on Atkin Avenue uh there'll also be programming and administrative space for Interfaith Neighbors on the second floor and much like Springwood Center on the third floor we'll have eight affordable rental units uh we intend interface neighbors intends to consolidate all of our remaining operations they're either in the memorial Center or in Springwood Center moving out of our current location on 10 4th Avenue which in our current plan we will redevelop for 100% affordable housing which to my memory will be the first 100% affordable development on the east side of the tracks that will come after we have completed the memorial Center project we have had two informal meetings with the city uh those meetings included the mayor councilwoman Clayton uh then city manager and other administrative staff uh based on those discussions and those two informal meetings we did revise the design the city the city at that point expressed some concern that we had our senior meal program slated to come into this building which as I say does a th000 meals a day for seniors all across the County city was concerned about traffic in this residential neighborhood so we removed the senior meal program from the program for this building um in addition uh the city expressed some concern at the time for the Early Childhood Learning Center four and 5year olds in this building we had pickup and drop off points in an indented curb on Avenue A there was some concern on the city's part as well as our part for safety of the children we redesigned the site plan so now pickup and drop off will occur whol on property we own uh within the block uh and and last at the specific request of the mayor um we Ste the building back uh from uh a zero uh setback we stepped it back so we could add additional Green Space to the site plan um more plantings both annual and per and perennial in fact that will be the only variance we seek this evening having stepped the building back so we could add additional Green Space to the site plan um more recently after receiving the reports from uh the board's uh engineer and planner we met with uh Donna and Sam um reviewed their report in detail uh one of one substantive change that came out of that discussion is we have redesigned the trash enclosure uh at the suggestion of both and Sam working with our civil engineer uh so that's basically the backdrop for the project and what we intend to do there um we have our architect our engineer our planner and representatives from the as Park Museum here this evening to speak about the uses of the building and the design of the building the last thing that I would say U before I turn over the mic is there's been some discussion in advance of the project about uh our uh the way we will meet the requirement within the Springwood Avenue Redevelopment plan for public art um so so I I will say for the record here this evening that we are not asking for a design waiver when it comes to public art we are a strong supporter of public art in the city in fact we have coordinated and paid for muers on the west side for with a fifth to come um but we do think that the opportunity the best opportunity to display public art will come after the building is in its environment um and we see where is the best presentation we can have I have spoken with Jen Hampton as the chair of the public Arts commission I've spoken with Carrie Turner as the executive director of the as Park Arts Council um and so we do commit to public art uh at this point we're not sure where the best uh location will be but we will comply with the requirement of the Redevelopment plan when it comes to public art I think I'll stop there uh John I don't have anything for questions from the board members any uh questions from the planning board uh members from this witness no no any questions from our uh professionals um just not sure uh so you talked about some changes that were made uh drop off for example are we going to get any testimony from Bill or somebody else Steve car and Bill Fitzgerald I would just I'm just assuming that everything that was stated will be stated Again by the professionals are coming up so that's why I still wanted to see if anybody had any other kinds of questions just you know as the representative of interfaith you have kind of the background inw workings experience of what you wanted your design professionals to do so I just want to make sure that yeah y we can get what we need out yeah no that be fine we'll get into the nuts and bulks now okay um is there anybody from the public that would like that has any questions to this witness any questions of anything that was stated okay hi do you want my name yes please okay Carrie Butch 500 D Lake Drive how are you I just wanted to ask a couple questions one is the rental what's the rental cost of the apartments and they are rental right that that wasn't stated here yet oh it should come but it it wasn't stated here okay yet okay that's okay we'll get to it oh okay you'll get to that well if somebody is is making a assuming somebody's going to testify affability some someone will testify to affordability I can address that will that be you yes I can address okay my my mistake go forward go ahead uh so all for Testimony first no no you can go if if you're the one that's going to testify about her question she can sit down actually let him let him testify he may actually answer your question that you made he's going to continue to testify on that topic yes let him at at this point yes so if why don't we let him continue to testify on that topic and then perhaps it'll answer your question and if not we'll we'll allow you the opportunity to ask okay thank you that okay go ahead okay so the third floor of this building will have eight uh residential units uh a mix of one two and three bedroom units uh the Redevelopment plan requires that 20% of the units be affordable and that those affordable units meet the uniform housing affordability controls established by the state so of those eight units uh two one of the two bedrooms and the three bedroom unit will be uck compliant other words the deed restriction will be for 30 years and they will meet the requirements of uck as it relates to income distribution for those units that's yet to be determined as I understand uh by the by the city's housing administrator and we'll have discussions with them about what the income limits are for those two apartments the remaining six uh Apartments we intend to be affordable most of our affordable housing construction subsidies come to us via the home program which is which are HUD dollars that come to us through the county of Mammoth uh their requirements and their deed restrictions are different than uck so uh with the expectation and we already have an approved subsidy from the home program those six units will be affordable deed restricted affordable they there are different requirements in terms of income and bedroom distribution and the affordability period for those units uh in accordance with the HUD criteria is 15 years so all eight units will be affordable uh two will meet the uck standard and be deed restricted for 30 years six of them will meet the uh HUD standard and be deed restricted for 15 years so anticipated the question that woman was going to ask don't know the actual dollar at this point well in in in both instances uh the state every year decides uh what the income what the rental amounts can be based on uh both bedroom distribution and income distribution similarly HUD usually in April of every year revises their schedule uh we happen to sit within the mammoth ocean Mercer region and they tell us what we're allowed to charge so we don't know yet we don't know but it's regulated it's not I I I can give you an example in the Springwood Center building similarly those are deed restricted units we have one three bedroom in the Springwood Center building and we charge uh $1,400 a month for the three bedroom so I I can tell you informally that they are significantly below market rate but that is that is what you know of as today correct 2024 that's the number correct we don't know what the number will be we we don't know when this is finished correct okay and this has been updated right because in the CCH report there's a problem with one bedrooms versus two and three so it's going to be a two-bedroom and a three-bedroom that are uck compliant yes I've I've already spoken with Beth mcmanis about that and and she tells us that a two-bedroom and a three-bedroom uh will need to be uh uh uck qualified great okay um would you like to come back up does that answer your question do you have some others you're okay I'm okay okay all right I might have a help question so Paul doesn't have to get them back and I think you might know these more than the engineer and the architect the preschool two classrooms how many total students yes in in the Dr Lorenzo Harris uh Center on Atkins Avenue we now have four activity rooms um in this building we are planning two activity rooms because this building will accommod four and 5-year-olds the Dr Harris Center now is 3 months to four and the capacity in the Dr Harris Early Childhood Learning Center is 36 we currently have 25 enrolled we have had more than 100 additional inquiries for space in the Dr Lorenzo Harris Early Childhood Center U but the space in this building the memorial Center will accommodate two activity rooms there'll be a little bit larger so we'll have a few more children in each of those activity rooms because we would be allowed to given their ages are four and five years old so can you give us some idea of what because I know this is heavily regulated how many yeah I think it's probably going to be in that 35 plus or minus uh 35 for in each or in both rooms 35 in each room uh no 35 total to 35 total right okay that that that is my best guess at this point well but it's heavily regulated so you so someone should know that uh uh Steve carage the architect uh may be able to speak and also how many teachers have to be on site how many administrators whatever we'll be asking those questions also so we'll need to know that okay and then and does inate operate that themselves yes we do any else John everybody's going to laugh except me and you mailboxes just because what we've G through on with the US Postal Service I I will be happy to answer that John uh Steve carage might also mention it but yes in the residential Lobby of this building within the lobby we will have uh mailboxes for the residents okay thank you for that question John all right does the public have any other questions that have been covered by this witness at up until now go ahead uh Dave Duncan wanasa but also I'm developing a project on Springwood as well so I think a great project uh I love the changes the museum on the street I think that's going to be a great uh addition to to the neighborhood uh my only question was one is like what is the the plan use of the museum I guess that's going to be discussed as far as what the extent of that yeah that has not been touched upon yet and then the other issue is like how is this going to interact with the Turf Club I mean the Turf Club is going to be a music venue I don't know how that's going to plan to develop how will this child care and and the people living there and how is that going to interact with the the Turf Club which is kind of something coming into its own well uh in terms of of the interaction um we we did have extensive discussions uh with as Park African-American music project uh which is controls the Turf Club property right now we spoke to them for more than two years to see how we might integrate their intent for the Turf Club with our intent for the balance of the block um they decided that they would go their own way um we know well what their intention is and they know well what our uses will be um so I think that even when it comes to public art I think I personally think that we will be better off waiting until both the memoral center and the Turf Club are in their environment to determine how best we can both meet the public art requirement um but we expect to be good neighbors with them uh their their intent I think is both cultural uh historical uh with a small performance venue I think that's very compatible with the aay park museum space which you will hear testimony on and how they expect to use uh the space in our building which basically will be to celebrate the culture and history that is the west side so I think they're very compatible in terms of adjacencies we we did submit as part of our application um a detailed report prepared by a specialty consultant when it looked at the Historical uh aspect of the Turf Club that report has been submitted to the state and accepted by the state uh the bottom line of that report uh was that uh the planned development of the memorial Center will have no impact on the Turf Club and its eligibility to be listed uh on the National Registry um also uh I'd like to find and this is for whoever is going to speak to the chare center I'm concerned is there any are there any regulatory issues in New Jersey or state with the children having to do with a nightclub being next door I'm going to want to know that I'm guess you don't know well no do what what I'm uh pondering right now is whether or not that will be a nightclub use that's not for me to say um in in our discussions previously over the course of two years I'm not sure they represented it to us as a nightclub but but I think uh the architect can can actually speak to whether or not there's a regulatory issue okay okay anyone else have any questions to to this witness based on what has been discussed yes uh Charles Trot Asbury Park excuse me on the interruption your address please 505 Langford Street you had said something about public art according to the uh illustration I saw up there I'm just curious where it would be where it might be are you talking exterior or interior or both yeah so so with the Asbury Park Museum occupying the space on the first floor I think you will hear those Representatives speak to how they uh Envision using that space including uh display cases that present to the public uh RightWay the sidewalk uh that would be interior to the building we've also had a number of recommendations Made To Us by Jen Hampton in the exchange of conversations I've had with Jen as the chair of the public art commission she's offered a number of suggestions to how we could incorporate public art that might include a mosaic in in the entry point to the building it might include art on the structural columns that hold up the building uh within the parking area it might include art on the enclosure to the trash uh uh Corral so there are several suggestions that Jen offered that I think might work out very well um and and that I think will be resolved uh as as as the building Rises out of the ground but but our commitment to public art is firm and we will comply with the requirement in the Redevelopment plan there's still a followup yeah all I want to know is uh the street that's going this way diagonally is that Springwood yes and the one that's going in Avenue a it would be Avenue a okay no problem hi um hi Paul uh Mike Sedano 4th Avenue uh Asbury Park and also the uh president of the Asbury Park Arts Council um I have been in discussions with Paul um and Jen and Carrie um what we have to realize when it comes to public art now's not the time to testify Now's the Time to ask questions of his Tes based on his testimony oh another opportunity okay I don't have any question [Music] questions okay anyone else have any questions of this witness okay next thank you so the next witness we would like to call it be Steve carage project architect you please raise your right hand silly swear or affirm the testimony about this matter be the truth no truth and nothing but the truth I do restate your affiliation uh with the applicant and I'll save John some time you are a licensed architect who has appeared before as many times and you're still license correct in good standing correct chair I suggest we accept it okay go ahead okay what what I'd like to do is walk you through the building first in plan and then we'll come back and we'll talk about the building design and the materials that we're proposing and and how this building comes together if we could start with the first floor as you know this is a three-story mixed use building and Paul mentioned the number of the uses the date of these plans because there was two sets this is the revised set this is the 523 yes 523 okay so I wish I had a pointer that would work on a screen but I don't well you have someone that is pointing but what what we can use a cursor Paul mentioned that the building is 30,000 square fet only 4,000 square ft of that is on the first floor the other two floors second and third floor are elevated above the on-site parking and when you look at this first floor plan you see the portion of the building where you see the plan at the bottom that fronts on string Springwood Avenue Avenue a runs up the right hand side of the building so we have 4,000 square ft on the first floor and located at the corner of Springwood and Avenue a which is the northwest corner of the building is the main entrance and the main lobby to to the building we have a vestibule which leads into a Lobby space and then contained in that Lobby space is a Monumental stair which runs up to the second floor just adjacent to that we we have two elevators and I'll explain why there are two in just a moment moving behind the lobby we have a second Lobby that Lobby is for the Early Childhood Center and will only be used by the Early Childhood Center and we'll explain drop off in in a moment well we don't have a site plan here well what's going to happen when you see the site plan is that there are four drop there's a drop off Lane that runs directly through the site as Mr Fitzgerald will show you and there are four drop off spaces on site parents will drop their students off and those students will enter where you see the cursor moving right now they will have their own Lobby to enter the Early Childhood Center which is located on the second floor once in the building they will have the use of the elevator if they so choose the one public elevator or they can enter the main lobby and and Ascend up the Monumental stair to the the second floor we'll see the second floor plan in a moment moving back to the front of the building fronting on Springwood Avenue that space which is all exposed with GL glass storefront to Springwood Avenue is the Asbury Park Museum the um the museum occupies approximately 1,400 Square ft on the ground floor and it as you can see it will front and be largely exposed with with a glass Frontage to Springwood Avenue behind that we have some of the building services including a trash room um Building Services Water Service entry electrical room Etc and then wedged in between those spaces and the Early Childhood Center lobby we have a third Lobby and this is the residential Lobby you will we assume that the residents will be parking most of the time in the space underneath the building and they will enter their Lobby from the rear right here and they have access to their own elevator that second elevator only goes to the third floor and will be for the use of the residents only um I should also tell you that we'll be providing a security key fob type or card access system so only the residents will be allowed to get to their residential floor and if they want to have visitors they will have to announce those visitors and have them allowed up into the building via a an electronic security system so how is that done so visit enter into the parking garage we we will have a system where they can call the resident the resident can then open the door if visitors May Park in in here at night for example if there are available spaces or they may come from anywhere I don't know exactly where they might come from so the residential Lobby is within the parking garage well it's it's the doors to it front on the you call it a parking garage it is a covered parking area correct okay and and one is there so you have to if you were walking you're walking if you're walking you have to walk into the covered parking area correct the correct so I'm saying so visitors is there security at the street line that they can't enter into that no the residents the residents will have to use their residential Lobby and their guests will have to use that Lobby no I'm saying can someone walk in from the street into the covered parking area or is there some sort of gate control there from the street well is that mua there there will be a l um there will be a landscape buffer around the parking area but there is no fencing or screening if someone walks into the street they can walk in there so they can access their parts by the main lobby and vesu at all the the resident the residential Lobby does not connect to the main lobby the intention is to keep the residents separate from the early childhood students and faculty and from interface um staff main very similar to what we have at Springwood Center across the street which works quite well the residents have their own Lobby there as the mayor mentioned earlier we also will have their mailboxes in this Lobby so they will have all the mailboxes inside that works quite well for the post office we know it works but we're trying to keep the residents separate from all the other activities in the building what is the main lobby used for the main lobby will be used for people coming to Interfaith Neighbors coming into the museum you actually enter the museum through the main lobby or if you're going to the school you can use the main lobby well the elevator off the main lobby does not to the third floor the elevator no only the only the residential elevator goes to the third floor the entrance to the museum is to V it's through the vestibule of the L yes through the vestibule so I'm sorry once again the the elevator that's in the main lobby where does that go goes to the second floor to the to the Early Childhood Center and to Interfaith neighbors offices okay so what is when it says daycare arrival and drop off you have is there is that like a a room here or what is that that is a that is their their dedicated Lobby and the reason it's at the rear and and I wish I had a site plan to show you but it's in the Civil set which we're going to have up next there are there is a drop off Lane which runs from Atkins Avenue on and this side on the leftand side of the of the plan right through in the First Column Bay and exits out onto Avenue a off of that drop off Lane there are four spaces where a parent can pull off let their student out on the right hand side of the car on the curb side onto a sidewalk and that sidewalk leads directly where you see the cursor into the Early Childhood Center lobby so at no time will any CH child who's being dropped off have to cross traffic they will exit the car onto a sidewalk directly into the lobby they their parents can then either bring them upstairs via the elevator or they can enter into the main lobby and use the stair to climb to the second floor so they dropped them off right in front of the correct correct and you'll see that on the site plan in a moment get out of the you you can get out of the car if you're you leave it in that lane you'll leave it in that space cor you can leave it there while you take your student in show you have to take theud no well there's no okay is there staff is there staff at the drop off Lane waiting to take the children or our people pulling up their cars in that lane Le them in that lane and then bringing their child into a school that's an operational issue for the school I assume that both will happen I assume that there will be a staff member there to receive the children in the morning but again that's a more of a question for the operation of the school and just clarify hang on what Paul had testified to earlier there are four parking spaces adjacent to the Lane can we putall parkes here we're going to show you a plan this might help explain it okay cuz cuz they're not just parking in the lane they're not parking concerned about is you know you have nowock oh hang on no well we can't open it up to you yet you're you've already gone you can come again but we don't want to we don't want to open up again okay this is Atkins Avenue Springwood Avenue Avenue a Adams and Adams is on top this is the entrance Lane where anyone coming with a student or one of the young children will enter and there are one two three four spaces right here where you can park your car if you want if you so choose get out take your student on this sidewalk enter the building take them up to the and turn them over to staff or operational I don't know this yet but it may be that staff will have people here receiving the children but you can four cars can stay there for a few moments while you have your while you uh bring your child to the school or to the lobby and then you will get back in your car and exit onto Avenue a okay now back to what we're kind of asking here about the flow we have 35 kids coming are they all coming at the same time well I is everything open at the same time I first place I don't know that there'll be all 35 we okay that's what well whoever can speak to that later can speak to it somebody else will testify it's okay I can wait it's fine it's all right but we they will not all come at the exact same time that's within 10 minutes of each other within a few minutes of each other yes but we don't even expect that all of them will come by car many of them in fact most of them at 302 Atkins come by foot they walk so we don't expect that all 30 or so will come by car a number of them when you design something if you say there's a capacity of children you know when you improve something you have to assume all 35 are there and there's a class timing you have to assume all the cars could be there at one time well no actually you don't and when you design a school you never design the Bus drop off for every single bus that's going to they're going to drop off students at that school at the same time the buses come over a period of 15 20 minutes the students exit they leave most for example in a 2,000t high school you might have 12 buses at a time that's nowhere near the capacity of the school but that's what might be available in the drop off Lane so you I I I have grandchildren now and I've had children that I dropped off to school and I pick up my grandchild from school and I can tell you what a nightmare it is with traffic and people with cars picking up so you know everybody seems to be there tries to get there early get a space to be there I drop off my granddaughter at school every morning so I know the drill myself I can tell you though that four spaces if with a four to 5 minute turnover over a 20 minute period most of the students here who will become who will come by car will be accommodated by this drop off scheme may I may I ask a couple of questions sure when you considered you know I I uh understand the immense amount of work that has gone into making this floor plan and I see a lot of the different elements that you're trying to fit in here when you were considering where the daycare entrance was did you consider just putting the D and vestibule at the corner where it would be equally accessible by somebody walking without having to enter the garage and somebody coming from the garage just push the doors I also think it would activate the facade to a better extent in that way and not require any reconfiguration of the internal workings which complicated and I acknowledge you have put a lot of work into this if you come by foot on Springwood Avenue and you enter the vestibule here you will have access to the Early Childhood Center lobby from this corner as well so my suggest this point simply accommodates the drop off this point would accommodate pedestrian drop off or pedestrian access feel like you are getting if you think about pulling the doors in the garage towards the corner further away from the residential Lobby you're starting to decouple the conflicts that everybody else has spoken of and further activating the facade of the building that faces the ship I'm just saying about moving the doors we you don't have to answer me or agree to it that's my suggestion I I understand your point originally we we intended on having drop off on Avenue A however there is insufficient room there to allow a drop it's it's not for the V so we opted to move the drop drop off internally we felt it would be safer for the students to be accommodated internally that doesn't preclude them from coming in through the main lobby from Springwood Avenue so I I think we've accomplished The Best of Both Worlds here my suggest my suggestion stands that using the corner for doors would allow the drop offs to happen in the secure fashion you have described and allow people to walk from the outside and eliminate many of the conflicts that have been suggested here it's a simple relocation of doors no interior configuration addition it isn't well it's actually yes just it's the addition of the door just just as a as a a fact uh at the current 302 Atkins Center the Lorenzo Harris Center there are 25 students 23 of the 25 walk to the building only two come by car right now so that's from Mr MC that ra another question then this is a big piece of infrastructure going to the building it's its own Drive aisle its own forest bases it's taking I mean it just seems like a lot for what we presume is only a few students driving by car I mean I I feel like you could use this for other things I don't know that we need it for other things I think the four spaces provides us the flexibility that if we did get four or five people coming at the same time we could accommodate them we're off the street which is safer so we think this is a the best possible solution here you can walk in from the street from the sidewalk you can walk in you can come by car it we seem to have covered in our opinion we seem to have covered both options here sure I understand that I just think that you could have made more things available to yourself and more had more options for yourself if you had just included this through the parking lot for a drop off it just seems like a big piece of infrastructure you're going to use twice a day on weekdays for a handful of students um but well you want again this is going to occur at pickup time also so this gives the parent the opportunity to come in in the afternoon Park their car go in and find their student or their child and bring them back to the car all of which happening off the streets which we think is a big plus the are going to be limited I know you say people want to drop yes we is it going to be enforced limited for drop off yes it they will be drop off spaces only so they will we could post a sign with some type of time you're saying you want to make it safer for the students being dropped off but the majority of the students being dropped off appear to be walking and you created all this infrastructure this huge walkway drop off area parking spaces where we could have improved the streetcape and point having a door with a vesle make it a point of entry visual activity as well as actual physical activity and I would say this extends to the particular location of the residential Lobby which there is no way to solve but you assume everybody's going to be entering through the garage into the back of the building sort of eliminating one of the most fundamental relationships of people with their neighborhood and that's kind of Entry onto the front you know in in this type in this type of builtup neighborhood with you know and I'm sorry to be pantic but it's not a garage surface parking that is covered there's nothing inclosing the parking area so on one hand I I like it because free flow of air you know it's it's a little bit more um you know as a a place where you're parking your car it's you're not stifled inside a contained space but as far as the streetcape impacts it's it's not great either so so to to Donna's point we could add a second dwarf on the Avenue aide so that you could enter that res The Early Childhood Lobby what we'd have to work it out with a vestibule but we could enter add a second door so you could also enter that Lobby directly from the sidewalk on right but it's it's Avenue a it's a narrower part way and sidewalk it that presents different problems for being a significant entrance again we want to have like you're saying safety for for people who are dropping offw so we don't want the sidewalk crowded we don't want people you know competing for the entrance way so to speak I I don't I don't know what the solution is necessarily but I I acknowledge Eric's observation about again engagement in the street line also James's point of there an awful lot of infrastructure to build maybe there was a better way to orient it so we get better pedestrian accommodations in lie of all this car space yeah if the majority of the students and parents are going to be walking say it's winter time yeah and KN the town of the layout they're not going to be coming from south they're going to be coming from El when they use the front entrance Springwood to get out of the in clate weather so are they coming from are they the majority of the Town lies to the north of this site right so why not go into the front like they say the front entrance that they have which they can do right if you're pedestrian you're going to have to go up come in the front entrance go up that main ornamental stair that's oh no there's a door you can still use you could still use the elevator they still they could or you could come in the main bring your up to Stair I think it go straight back to the time I also acknowledge and chair you've rais the question there are very strict rules about child care centers right I don't know about the mixing zones in public spaces it may be safer easier for staff to have a separate Lobby and uh you know reception area for those kids oh I want them coming in the front doors but maybe they need well that's what that's one of the things that I'm concerned about is that you're having the public and children coming in the same door for different purposes want to go to the to the chare center and want to go visit your offices or whatever I'm concerned about that but so let's be clear the the residents residents because we were talking about them being involved in the streetcape and coming into the they come into the vestibule a resident so how did they how does a resident get into their place they don't they don't the residents do not use the main lobby they go around and they have to go in the back they go in their own Lobby that's unfortunate because that's we want them to be part of the that's the fundamental relationship right that's the relationship your neighborhood and your front door I mean you have this covered wall it's a difficult problem the thing is this is a difficult problem to just pick a park because a lot of work has gone into get this point and so there's a lot of thought that has made it but I think we have to acknowledge that letting the residents only enter in the rear may feel like a missed opportunity and it mixes them closely to the use of the child care center yes because I'm just concerned that the that the that the businesses that are or whoever is going to be on the second floor they're the those are the only people coming through the main entrance that's it the residents I mean it would be nice for the residents to be be able to get there but I understand and now we have the children we have to worry about the children and the people that are that are that have businesses on the second floor this is that's rough it's a yeah one one of the issues here that we we're very concerned about here is security and the the residents will be coming and going 24 hours a day where most of the rest of the building will not so this gives them the opportunity to have their own secure space come and go when they please but the rest of the building can be locked down during the off hours overnight um that's something that's of of concern to all of us operating a school it's of concern to interface folks that are going to be in the building and this way I think we we've accommodated a secure situation giving everyone a situation that that that works it's similar to what we did at Springwood Center which seems to work just fine seems to be it seems to be you say that but it seems to be the residents have this unsecured Alleyway that will not be dark it will it will not be dark it will be illuminated lit but it's not secured at either Street at either street so you know usually people walk into property their residents from the street I mean it can't be seen from the street if they if they Park either going to park their cars there they would then have to walk around to the front of the building no but You' want both right well the the residents presumably we anticipate that a number of the residents will park we have cars okay but for many developments in the city these days right multif family mixed use developments occurring east side and west side we're having this Lobby experience in the street for residents and users yes and if people want to walk downtown from this point they're not going to go out back to their car they're going to walk down Springwood so which which we want them to walk down Springwood we want that so so yeah so the residents in this building have to come down the back the back elevator out the back of the building and to the side street and then out to Springwood whereas any other development that we're seeing on the east side the residents would just come down to a Lobby door it doesn't have to be the only way right could be an an alternative so I I like that they they have their own residential Lobby and that you can go out the bat to your car that's fantastic I I like how this is designed but I personally would like to see this residential elevator open on both sides so that if you're not going to your car out the back you could exit out into that main lobby out front right and exactly so you can come in the main which we can do we just discussed that could do that it we would have to there's a column in the way it would put a higher a heavier burden on in Security on the overall electronic controls but we could probably do that because I think that that makes that makes perfect sense to have the to have it open both ways on the on the elevator yeah could you make could you not make the I you could still have that drop off the Char Center in the back but couldn't there be a door from that drop not from the main lobby in other words if you wanted to secure the drop off for the for the daycare could you separate it from the main lobby not have that you know don't enter the main L drop the main lobby have it own separate entrance on everywh yeah well we could if we we'd have to add a vestibule also but we could add another entrance on Avenue A and you know you have it secured so it would only be ented from Avenue a and from that drop no it has to go here that might present a security issue though why would would separated can I recall Paul can Paul because he's more excuse me he's more familiar with operations if I could ask Paul Jack okay yeah so so given the the record you understand you're continuing under Ro so so given the multitude of uses in the building um it's very important we've learned this lesson at Springwood center it's very important to control the different spaces within the building and limit access to that occupant for that space um so the separate residential Lobby uh 24-hour access to the residents um we really don't want them to have 24-hour access to the main lobby to the building and we don't want them to have access to the second floor for a secur from a security standpoint uh when it comes to the Early Childhood Center we want to limit the number of access points to that space from a security standpoint um so we'll control the front ENT of the uh front ENT uh access to the building through the front lobby where they can go up the stairs or the elevators to the second floor and it will be a controlled access point at the rear of the building I do not want to add a third access point for the Early Childhood Center from a security standpoint from a operation standpoint that's just not acceptable why would you why would you even have I would just the suggest this door here hang on from the into the childhood access why not just have from the drop off area and one from avue way from the main L we why can't you just have the second floor secured from the main lobby we have two points of access because in our experience at the Dr Lorenzo Harris Early Childhood Learning Center the majority of parents bring their children by foot um and so that gives them the opportunity to come into the front of the building and Rise through the elevator or the Monument St stair um but we do want to give access for somebody who comes by car or in on a rainy day maybe those some people some of those parents that normally come by foot would come by car and have the shelter of the floors above to drop off at the rear of the building so and given the day and given the climactic conditions you know that same family could use both points of access so I understand with you people dropping off by foot if you put an entrance in the wall on Avenue A Clos off the main lobby does that not allow them to to use to go to the drop off area use the elevator I personally I don't think the additional utility there would be worth it and it would create an additional potential for security breach personally how would it be a security that's a that's a third point of access that we would have to control can we go back to what Eric suggested CL the one you close the one from the main lobby into the drop off and you would just have access from the drop off from the V vehicular drop off and then one from the avue a facade so that would just be two access points into that drop off area and they would use did they have to use a stair and an elevator that be part of it no it would be their option to use either I'm saying it would be legal for them just to be able to use the elevator sure uh I'm would to rec no to eress fire access the stair yeah that's not an eress point I can explain erress when I get back up there but first place four-year-olds like stairs we have this what's going to be a Monumental very articulated a lot of glass stair right in the window so that people running up and down that stair I say running but moving up and down that stair helped to activate the street scheme that's one of the reasons why we like to put a snare like that with glass a buding a sidewalk because it helps activate the streetcap um so I would I would think that half of the students when they get there in the morning are going to enjoy that little track up those that stair because it's going to be a really cool St I guess may you know I you hear a number of people on the board are not liking the residential entry ways I I hear you I I I can tell you in our experience at spring with Center where we have two elevators um one is tasked normally to only service the third floor and the other elevator is tasked normally to only service the second floor where the senior center is we do have the option to turn on the capacity of the elevator serving only a third floor to serve the second floor but we only have it at Springwood Center in the event the city's hosting a large function in the senior center and we have to move large volumes of people from grade to the second floor in in this case uh with eight uh households on that third floor um they should have their separate access and only access to the third floor yeah I that's I think that that's what we're saying is that that third floor elevator and correct me if I'm wrong Michael is that we're saying that that third floor elevator opens on two sides it it it it could do so one side will be to the main lobby and one sign is the residential Lobby like many elevators yeah but then what he's saying is they want that main lobby to be closed for part of the day when the museum is closed Interfaith is closed they don't want anybody in there what one that makes too bad yeah well because that would be that would be really nice similarly if you look at the vestibule at the main lobby the reason why the access point to the museum is within the vestibule and not within the lobby itself is our operations are typically Monday through Friday the museum may have events on the weekend so we can shut down the rest of the building and the museum can still have a function in their space so so I I will say we've given a lot of thought to security and the different uses in the building and much of it is based on our experience at Springwood Center so so why like the museum didn't get its own entrance right over the spring why is the the need for we actually create more space for them if they come into a common vestibule they get end up with more functional space in their demarked area okay I'm sorry I just want to roll back for a second a to zoom in on where the elevator are I know it's like which which functions are actually going to work right yeah that's okay all right so you have the residential Lobby on the left side of that wall mhm and then the commercial and daycare Lobby on the right side of that wall and then you have the curved wall outlining the main lobby and so what is this there's a break in that curved wall that's the that's the soft I'm sorry that's a break to get back to the Building Services space on the first floor it's just like an Al there's water fountains what are those things that are there aliens water fountains water fountains okay so so what is what is the problem with the residents coming out of the residential Lobby into the main lobby cuz they will have access to the second floor if they're in the main lobby they have access to the second floor second FL by the grand staircase correct correct soltion to but is that is that the single issue that you have to F out Lobby if accessing staircase and then nothing else in that Lobby right the child care center would be looss their door would be lock off elevator is card controlled or whatever so is there I guess my question would be and I understand you're articulating uh is there any other way to deny access to that c top of this well I think you know we have to take at face value Paul's assertion that there has been a lot of work put into this plan and I don't know that it's going to be a productive discussion for us to try and redesign it by committee here however we can certainly Lodge the concern that there is something some small improvements that could be made to both create a little bit more gracious it's trying to make if if we can't flip it to make it be on the street like it would normally be how do we improve the experience in that underneath area and I think what the suggestions have been is to Simply relocate a door from here to here or here to here that's it and then just maybe you could take one of these spaces away and for you a more gracious drop off area in front of what are essentially the two entrances underneath that garage space so I think that that is we have to acknowledge that the importance of this project leads us to a place where much work has been done through many meetings with different committees and city council and locals and and I think that the Project's value speaks for itself we don't know that we're going to be able to tell him how to redesign it but the suggestions about how that experience of the underneath part is um modified is I think important that may be where you start to think about your best opportunities for public art and it need not be paint it may be light it may be sculptur it may be decorative panels it may be something that really jazzes that space up into a place and so that's my suggestion um also I believe that there's the residents have to be able to get into this building via stairs also I'm assuming where would that be cuz that's people like to take stairs they don't like elevators so can you tell me where can a person that is on the first floor walking in how I get to my unit on the third how do I get in cuz all I see is emergency exits like is there something from the outside that you can get into that stairway yeah next to the tur finish telling us about the rest of the design okay if if we can we can wait I'm okay with waiting for that answer bring Steve back yeah okay the two the two stairs that you see that are enclosed are required EG stairs it was our intention to give card access to the residents to enter the stair at the top which is the the one at the southernmost part in the building from the inside not from the street that that exit on the street is going to be locked it's for egress only but from the garage area right there where the cursor is you would have a card access and if you were in C the walk up three to the third floor you could use your card and get into that stair and go to the third floor so you can go in you can go in and what about what about the entrance on Springwood we could also give them access via electronic card access to that stair if they were so inclined we find that Springwood that the residents do not walk they all they most all of them use the elevator Steve to the board point if you the emergency is you can give access to the resid on on the North side North Side West Side EXC me that would at least allow the residents well except that's not the downtown area yeah this stair here we we could do that you access to we could give the residents the same access to their elevator could open that door don't does that me code why why wouldn't it do you think well it would be essentially a main entrance and there's no Lobby vestibule I think you don't typically walk right into a staircase off you can't walk you wouldn't be able to walk right in it would have to it's a it's a it's going to have a panic device on it's a locked fire door but you could use a card access to trigger that device which would unlatch it and allow a resident to open the door from Springwood and enter climb the three the two flights to the third floor the problem is when somebody like that enters from the sidewalk the door's open for a moment somebody else may find their way in with them or behind them that's always a concern when you're doing it's not an open Lobby right and it's concealed neither is the back lobby the residential Lobby is not visible either nor is this one neither well that's open to the that's that's in an illuminated covered area so would be a lot of light there you you would be able to see someone there before you open the door as opposed to someone sneaking up behind you on the sidewalk well I I think that to Eric's point is that there are you understand our concerns what we're speaking about and us I don't think that we can solve those problems because yes every you you have put a lot of work into this and we understand that coming into this I understand it's difficult to hear our concerns but here we are because when you go to the second floor you pull up the second floor plan I mean you get another Lobby and then it seems like there's old doors that are securing all the spaces right so well at the second all right now we're on the second floor so you come up the grand stairs you to the other or the elevator and you you either you enter into this Lobby where you have two choices you either enter Interfaith neighbor space which is the door secured which is SEC secured or you enter the Early Childhood Center right so what's the problem with if if the residents were allowed access to the main lobby on the first floor what what is really the problem saying you want to shut down the building I mean you're shutting down the lobbies and me you shutting down these other spaces right you're shutting down space even if these lobbies were open those doors could be locked we did not want the residents just hanging out in the lobby on off hours the more space you create the more opportunity you create for people to just set up camp there and we didn't want that this is a controlled space we wanted to keep it that way especially with the Early Childhood Center here we felt this was more appropriate but you enter that Lobby either via the stair or the elevator there is a little outdoor Terrace there which is if you want to step outside and check the weather or whatever you'll have the opportunity to do so if you go to the north side to the South you will enter the lobby for the Early Childhood Center where you'll see um just moving back you'll see the two classrooms which front on Avenue A both of those classrooms per the state requirements will have toilets where the fixtures are sized for four and five year olds and then you'll have you'll have an admin area where you have a nurses station a conference room for parent teacher conferences and an administrator's area and a break room for the ear Early Childhood Center that's that's the entirety of the Early Childhood Center right there on the second floor that ER that Carter that you see running vertically on the sheet provides access to the egress there at the at the top of the of the of the sheet where they can exit through the lobby down here at the bottom if you go the other way you go into Interfaith neighbors area where you have a receptionist and then you have their their four different office areas which I won't get into the details of them um but they have a nutrition program community development program I'm going to miss some of them but some of the other programs they then have a multi-purpose room right in the center which is divisable they can use that for teaching for training for all kinds of uh activities that might occur and we don't know what all those might be they have their own restrooms and then behind that they have their administrative area where the administration of interfaith Neighbors will have their offices and they have a large conference room on the Southeast corner of the second floor which is also provides access to an exterior Terrace off of their conference room and that's the entirety of the second floor Interfaith neighbors and the Early Childhood Center the separate uh the separate when you take the elevator you come out of St come the stairwell there a door you go through the child center right and there a separate Lobby and point for the services provided by right correct so those are both curable in theory correct and I would assume that there are operations happen from inter that are happening there could be could be correct so this way you'd be able to secure the Early Childhood Center if Interfaith had a program running at night or vice versa if there was a award ceremony at the or a graduation or whatever fourth grade graduations are are a lot of fun so what push what was the what's the main motivation behind the development itself is it you give Interfaith offices is that the childhood that the residential I mean there always is always a main focus of the development right that why you want some of the things are added on I think Mr M Paul spoke to that but I I think as Paul mentioned Interfaith needs more space they don't have room where they are they would like to move to this site which they've over the years been able to acquire that will free up the space where they are now for them to develop an affordable housing project which we've already started to look at for that the 810 4th Avenue site but they also have a commitment here to this Early Childhood Center which is the the lower half the lower school as we call it is over a 302 Atkins they've always been committed to giving them a four and fourth and fifth uh fourth and four and fiveyear old upper school program and so we decided to house that here we don't have room at Atkins it has to be here and Interfaith has always been trying to provide more affordable housing so the opportunity and it's consistent with the Redevelopment plan the opportunity to provide more affordable housing in this building is is there so we're taking it don't know the main focus is provide interface with W open space and to fulfill your commitment to the Early Childhood but you do of course I mean that's what I'm saying that seems to be the main focus so I understand like you're going to develop okay if your main focus was for the affordable housing would be a different design yeah why do we have Paul answer that that's really an owner question yeah yeah so so I mentioned this briefly um you know our our clientele at least within the city of as Park are largely Westside residents so this gives us the opportunity to be in and of the neighborhood right now we're on the east side of tracks we're basically serving uh the population on the west side of tracks um a lot of our operations The Early Childhood Learning Center for three year olds and five and 3 months old the farm the launch Center they're all within this one and a half block area so we are consolidating the location for all of the programs that we offer by taking uh this opportunity to develop this site and that does free up the site east of the tracks uh for for 100% affordable housing project so the motivation the bottom line motivation is for us to be in and of the neighborhood that we are serving at least as it relates to Asbury Park hold on Maybe started so we're talking about the second floor so we have the two classrooms which I know you're going to have a teacher and a teacher's aid so that's four employees at least at least for 17 kids and a receptionist administrator nurse seven employees for the school minimum how how many employees I think that's where we're getting to they expect nine employees at the Early Childhood Center Nine employees okay then how many employees by state by state regulation how many employees are going to be move from 4th Avenue to this for Interfaith the Interfaith therea yeah they're probably approximately 10 employees that will be moving because the senior meal program will not be moving into the building so if we have 50 employees 25 of them are involved in the senior meal program so there there are probably 8 to 10 uh employees that will be reloca from 4th afternoon to this location anything else on the second floor we haven't gone to the building yet so so we're having like I'm assuming there's a director also where where are they going to live we can go back can you point out the CU I'm just probably an assist you can see it says administrative there's admin a conference room that's not an office there's a receptionist area and there's no office there is that the administrative office is going to be where the director is going to be as well as a conference room that anybody can use they're separate offices okay it's hard I don't see that I'm sorry I don't see that as a separate office I see that as one office School principal's office we don't we we never had a principal's office we have a conference room that they're going to use for their administrative staff there's a nurse and there's a break room that's what they so the director will have the conference room the conference room and if there's an assistant director or the assistant teachers or whatever they all have to use the same space well they have a break room as well but the teachers and the assistant will be in the classroom most of the time okay it's all it's all regulated so I'm not as worried about it but it's all regul going to be approved by division of now it's called Child and Family Services okay and when do and when do we see that so that we see what what is required so just in case the nine employees change to 12 when do we see that because it affects parking right because it affects parking so it's like when do we see that what that is what that requirement is I know that you're saying it's nine but because it's highly regulated I just want to make sure it is nine or is it 12 once it gets approved it'll be all be part of the licensing requirements and two years from now whatever they might be both the Staffing uh complement uh will be based on the number of students we have in the building so we're giving you approximations years from now it all determined as you say by my State Licensing requirement right because but that that that impacts the need for how many parking spaces okay well no we comply with the parking well it's Bas on nine so as saying if you end up having 12 that's per that's that's more legal perspective we have to know okay exactitude parking requirement is so we would have to go possibly a condition of approval would be that we would need to see whatever the license here is and that encompasses the proposed parking scheme if it's going to change school that something we have no you're right we'll be getting to that for sure all right as as we just also noticed that on the CCH report it does say that it's six employees so now that it's nine it changes the ratio of parking spaces but we we'll get to the CCH report later so we can we can deal with that later but we're just bringing it up did the regulations require the drop off area that they have on the first floor the regulations well you said everything again I asked a question earlier on is there staff so I I don't understand the concept of having a special place to drop off if that's not mandatory in other words if it's not mandatory by the not by regulations but by the school in other words you drop your childhood off year you drop your childhood here and we take them up to the school so I understand why you have a drop off area yet also the ability for people just to bring in their kids and go up the stairs to the elevators and drop them off upstairs so it seem to me like you had a central drop off area you know you wouldn't have to have people you know bringing them or collecting them on the upper Flor I don't want to I think we do have a central drop off area you do so why have both that's my point being is if people are allowed not to use the drop off area and just bring their child up the stairs why do you have a drop off why do you have so much space because we anticipate that some children will arrive by car and some will arrive on foot we we anticipate you said you said most will arrive by foot and the ones that can come by foot can come in the main lobby and that's why you have all these entrances to this drop off area that's on the first floor you're the one that again again we we feel that the the entry and drop off is appropriate to the size of the facility as Paul mentioned earlier if you get a rainy day we may get a majority of the kids coming by car on that given day so we need to be able to accommodate some degree of drop off we think this is a reasonable approach the rest of the kids may come by foot and they will come in and and walk up the stairs and not go to that drop off area well if they're on foot they might walk right down Springwood come in the lobby and up the Monumental stair and you're in the building but if you're in a car you won't do that we purposely move the drop off on site to get that drop off function off the city street we originally intended to do it on Avenue A but there there simply isn't enough width to do it safely there so we moved it on site we thought that was a benefit to the whole design to have that drop off off city streets and controlled in a safe manner so that's why we did it okay so the drop off area there is just for the cars that that room is just for the Dr it's for somebody to stop their car let their child get out perhaps go around with them and if the child is Young and wants needs to be escorted walk them in yeah you may see both you may see some parent drop off the door will open the kid will jump out and run up the run in the back door and and he's in but I you know that'll bury by by kid but I'm assuming question was the purpose of that room was for the vehicular drop off only it is likely to be only for the vehicular drop off because it's oriented toward that drop off area if you were walking up to the building you're not likely to come walking up in in the driveway that's what I'm saying usually a drop off area is is a mandated area and there will be staff there right but if if you're walking to this building from let's assume you're walking from the south walking up Atkins Avenue you're not going to walk all the way around to Springwood you're going to know that you can go right in the back door especially if the weather's in Clement or it's in the middle of the winter you're going to go right in that closest door I mean it but but ALS also these these doors when you're mentioning that these children will be coming out of the car I'm doubting that they can come out of the car because they need some sort of a fob some sort of a key card something to allow them into the door somebody door sorry not the door for the the childhood drop off that that door will be open during the time in the morning when the kids are arriving so there will be a steady stream of kids and some parents coming through St and there'll probably be a staff member downstairs I would say more than probably open I'm not the up in our experience children will come to this location from 6:30 in the morning till 9:30 in the morning right so if they're someone is is coming in through the drop off point we will have staff there to give them access to that it will be a control point of entry um same thing with the front of the build the front of the building okay will control access to that space given the three-hour window you won't be able to staff at the entire time but at times of high peak transaction we will have staff there it's all based on experience and operations um and not class is not scheduled class like you know start like like a lot of Early Childhood centers there is an extended day so parents who are working can drop off earlier or they can pick up later um so and we have to staff for that condition so again again depending on the volume and the time of warning we could have staff at the point where they're entering the building otherwise it'll be by by controlled access which by the way the Dr lenda High Center we do but that is a secure point of entry um and they have to buzz to get in so it security is a high priority for us and for these families so like what is your Peak at the lenzo center uh time most kids come think the peak is you know 8:00 8 to 8:30 but there are parents who drop off early in the morning well sure but that's you know so that will be bu if there's not a staff if there's not staff member at the point of that tree it would be controlled by comp so they know to come down and let you in or yeah right so we're on the uh we're on the second floor I think we finished the second floor am I not correct we go so so uh the stairs um in the back not the front stairs but the ones in the back that are the emergency stairs there are there are doors in the child care center are they are those just for emergency are they just for can people just walk down or up those stairs it's from the back of the okay because that stair will be accessed by the residents if they so choose to enter as as we noted earlier in the covered parking area we created a vestibule there because we cannot lock a neeg stair door so someone can come up that stair and could exit into the second floor and be in that vestibule however the other two doors will be exit only they won't be able to get access into the school or into interface area and nor nor can the school exit there well no the school will exit there that is one of the required exits okay so that's the emergency exit for correct and the Panic device will allow the door to operate if you're exiting from the interior to the exterior you have to allow re-entry on that floor from that St we second floor we don't have to allow re-entry there we would do it up above no Al so so why you the we because the the door to the stair cannot be locked yes you have to allow someone to get out of the stair so you can't lock it have you do have to allow it should we go third floor go to third floor all right and the um the other thing is now on the Interfaith side I see that that you'd mentioned that there would be 10 employees um so I'm guessing that you'll you'll be having a lot of company because there's a lot of room here so a lot of people will be coming in for services and whatnot corre is that what's going on here and multi-purpose the multi-purpose rooms and the Community Development rooms and the conference rooms so that's more cars coming in or people walking could go either way okay all right and rental assistance okay yeah the public will access the Interfaith offices they all of those departments provide services to the public so the public will be in and out of there all day long along with their step okay so going now to the third floor the third floor contains the eight affordable units the upper two units you can see on this plan which are at the south side of the building are a two-bedroom on the right hand side and a three-bedroom on the leftand side those are the two uck um units as Paul mentioned earlier the other six will be um developed under the other program that Paul mentioned the all I should have said earlier that the entire building is fully accessible and all of these units these residential units are type A adaptable so that they will they can any of them can be converted to an accessible unit if so required and that's per state per the per the code that's required um the units are quite I think if you look at the plans the units are quite generous there are four two-bedroom three one-bedroom and the one three bedroom all of the units have an exterior balcony so you can step out and get some fresh air they have egress at either end of the carer be it the egress stair at the south south side of the building or the egress stair at the northeast corner of the building and they have their access by via the elevator which you can see you know obviously the elevator core is where it is how how big is the elevator room CU I see you have two bike storages up here I'm just trying to IM people getting their bikes up there it looks like a small elevator from this drawing but I can't really tell it'll be a a 2500 lb but it'll have to be large enough to for a gurnie so you will be able to get a bicycle in there what but what's the dimensions of the elevator you know the interior Dimensions as a person who lives in a building the small elevator against tough It's a 3500 lb elevator I I misspoke and it again if you can fit a gurnie you can get a bicycle in there or two multiple bicycles I don't know the exact dimensions off hand I'm just saying I live in a building and I can get one elevator and one person in it and then nothing else is getting inside that elevator so that's why but I bet you couldn't get a gurnie in that thing either yeah you can you're getting a gurny one person well I'm sure that you can come back it's a 3500lb elevator and you could fit two people and two bicycles in it without a problem all right so now maybe we should talk about what the is there any other questions about the plants okay there's one bedroom uh I guess this is there is no fourth floor there is a roof I should mention before we leave this you see this roof area here on the on the left hand side of the plant It's Our intention to put a solar array photov voltaics on that roof area as one of the uh the green features of the building so that roof there will be photov voltaics provided here um and that's where they're going to be located we may have some additional room on the roof level as well to add some photov voltaics some solar panels but that'll be dependent upon the spacing of the mechanical units which we haven't finalized yet and because we have agreed that there will be no venting of anything bathrooms kitchen exhaust anything through the facade all the venting will be through the roof so we have we need to way to make sure we figure out where all those vents are before we commit the roof to additional solar panels but this roof here this lower roof on the second floor will be all photovoltaics so now moving and I think what we should do to be to talk about the building is just to go back to the [Music] rendering okay so so just a second just a second when are we going to talk about where the mean are the Mechanicals are going to be on the roof we can go back to the roof plan all the Mechanicals well there there will be some mechanical for example the water service entrance the uh pressure relief valves all of the Water Service stuff is on the first floor but all the HVAC equipment exhaust fans uh condensing units Etc will be on the roof we are providing a aluminum equipment screen around all the equipment we anticipate that the uh residential unit unit uh equipment will be um no more than 36 in high so nothing will be visible above the screen um which you can see the perimeter the screen is identified there plus the closest that the equipment screen gets to the building facade is 20 ft setback so you won't see if you're if you're coming down Springwood you might see the screen but if you're in close proximity to the building you will not see anything on the roof okay right first floor I see water I see electric how about gas the gas will come in the Building Services room and that as long as you mentioned it the meters will be on that that back wall Al along the drop off Lane that's the only place where they can be but they will not be visible from the street there so and we don't have the final say on where the meters go the utility companies do but that's the plan there individual meters for the dwellings we anticipate individual meters for the tenants and individual electric meters for the residential units can you uh tell us about the because I see that now I just see that there's bike storage for only 10 bicycles no there actually is there any place else missing there are 18 bicycles or two bike rooms on that third floor on the third floor but what about on the third floor on sorry no I mean wherever you just tell me where they are the Bike Room the any place for where bicycles can be stored in this building cuz I'm only seeing in the building the third floor there's two two bike rooms on the third floor there two biks on the third floor you're on the third floor okay there's a 10 there's a rack in thear the six is further up theway there are two bicycle storage rooms for the eight units oh I see I see we believe that 16 two per unit okay and somebody just mentioned that there's something on the first floor on the ground floor there are there are also uh the ground floor there also uh 18 bicycle racks on the ground floor um where is that you look at this we'll show you when we get back there all right all right when we get there I'll I'll take a look there well we'll go back just before we lose the question the driveway Island oh they're over there okay I see them we don't have the site plan that's there's more up there okay thank you we're going to when we get to the site plan we'll show you where the bike rocks are that's fine all right let's talk a little bit about the design of the building this is obviously as we you all know by now this is the North West corner of the building which is the main entrance you can see the memorial memorial Center signage above the entrance band Our intention here is to have most of the first floor transparent to the street and that's that's why you see nothing except for a small solid panel you see almost the entire first floor of the building fronting on the two streets is storefront with clear glazing we want everything that's going on in the lobby to be visible to the street and vice versa and most of the Springwood Frontage is the museum and we want everything that's happening in the museum including U the opportunity for pedestrians passing by to see the artifacts and be enticed to enter the museum so the first floor facing the two streets is essentially transparent and it's all storefront glazing floor to ceiling when we get to the second floor we change the materiality of the building now this is the the second floor of the building as you all know by now is the institutional portion of the building it's the Early Childhood Center and its Interfaith neighbors offices so what we're going to use on the second floor is a metallic an aluminum panel to articulate the second floor all the way around the windows different now when we get to the the second floor because the windows are dependent on the use so if you look down Avenue a you'll see the two classrooms have ribbon Windows providing a full wall of natural light entering the classrooms when we go around you can't see the other elevations but similar things happen when we get to the offices we get window patterns that mimic the office locations in the building so all of the offices have natural light I should also mention that all of the windows on this on the second floor which is in the school in the Early Childhood Center and in the Interfaith neighbors area they are all well they're 50% of the windows are operable so you will be able to get fresh air you will be able to open the window anywhere in the building that includes the residential units as well when we get to the third floor because now we've changed the use again we Chang the materiality of the building again and now we're going to use a simulated wood panel we create at the entry level we're using this metallic orange band and we're widening that and rounding it at the corner to call your attention to the main entrance when we get to the back corner of the building you can see that the the band is articulated and and it varies in scale and it as it's rounded again as it gets to the back corner right there and it's not quite as bold of color as we're going to use on the front entrance so we don't want to draw your attention to the back corner of the building we want to draw your attention to the front corner of the building when we get to the Upper Floor we also articulate the band and you can see it has somewhat of a sculptural effect separating the second floor institutional uses from the third floor residential uses we're going to use a dark simulated wood as that banding material on the Upper Floor and that's going to relate to the wood that we used on Park viw just down the street and then the bottom of the building is the the body of the third floor of the building will be a lighter colored simulated wood giving you a much different um level of articulation and texture to the residential floors versus the the institutional floors versus the transparent first floor that's how we envision the building um I I think it works there were some questions about are we articulating the corners of the building we're definitely articulating the the main entry corner of the building with that giant metal band which is rounded and it'll have the signage lettering on it we don't want to articulate the back two corners as dramatically so at the back corner which is at the southwest corner which you can see to the right there in the ele in the rendering we have a smaller band that is also curved the corners are all curved and rounded to to soften the edges but we don't want it to be as dramatic as the front corner so we it's it's about half the depth of the of the front corner band when we get to the wood bands at the top we do the same thing we enlarge the banding at the corners and wrap them around in a curved fashion when we get to the opposite corner which you can't see here we could go to the elevations if you we get to the southeast east corner we have a whole different situation going on because we have Interfaith neighbors has an exterior Terrace at that corner which you're looking at at the top right of the screen you can see there and and it's not in color but again that the lower band which is which varies in height it actually has a sculptural quality to it will be the orange metal and and that will articulate and'll become wider at the corner to help articulate the corner that that bath balcon there which is their exterior Terrace and all of the upper third floor balconies will have a glass handrail so that they'll be completely transparent the handrails the the guard rails will be glass same thing happens at the non-banded portion of the of the Interfaith terrace right here um you can see the back of the building you're actually looking at the back wall of the Building Services look at the first floor looking under the covered parking but as we get towards the leftand side you can see that at the that's the residential that's the Early Childhood Center lobby and drop off area we we go to storefront there we want that part of the building to be transparent when we move upstairs we have on the left-and side we have a classroom so we have the banded Windows there s symbolizing the fact that we want to bring a lot of natural light into the classroom and then we move to the other side of the building that's Interfaith neighbor space we have Windows in each of the offices those are punched window openings with awning window windows for natural light when we get to the Upper Floor the window patterning is basically the result of the floor plan and we're letting the windows and you don't see any balconies here because there are no balconies on the south side but if you go to the other elevations or go back to the rendering the rendering yeah you'll see that we provide relief at the upper level by puncturing the the facade wall and having an inset balcony with a glass rail that provides a relief in the elevation it provides Shadow because that'll those balconies will be roofed the roof will be continuous at the outer plane so you'll get light and dark light and dark and Shadow to break up the elevation so like what I call like the yellow on the second floor like you know above the open parking yeah that's those are aluminum that's aluminum aluminum bands right so now I see like these you say the polished uh block the two the two and you can only see one here if you go to the extreme left the two egress stairs will be ground face or polished masonry so they compliment in a gray tone here they'll compliment the metal compliment the metal that all the way to the left of theot that's that's that exit stair that's the that's the erress stair correct so what that that has like a it has a so in other words it's all open you can see the stairs you'll be able to see people moving on The Landings and obviously there's a door at the curb there there's an egress door coming that is used for emergency we said emergency egress and all the flo right correct and we can make it accessible to the residents via a key fob if they're inclined to walk in and go up that would be a way too I you could make it more sort of like iny typ maybe I know you said keep keep Stu you know a lot of us expressed you know the residen is to have some sort of Street well there won't be a Lobby I know that I understand there's not a lobby but maybe there's something to make it more interestes well there's going to be a glass band splitting that entire Tower which is going to be illuminated all the time 24 hours a day because it's an egress there so that'll be a vertical light shaft that you'll see there all the time which will signify point of entry and it'll signify a break in the building and complement the curved and the exterior Terrace that you're going to have here at the northwest corner at the main entrance the lettering that you see there will be pin mounted metal lettering it'll be held out from the facade on on one in diameter pins so um they'll create a shadow what's the address the address is uh it's on the it's on the wall there's a little solid panel in the middle of the museum space and the address is in vertical pin mounted letters right there on that solid panel so the building itself has one address right not addresses school I anticipate the building will have one address John's question about the mail boxes the mail man un like my house will know where to go well again at Springwood we have the eight mailboxes in the residential Lobby that's where the mail gets deliver everybody has a key to their box we're going to do the same thing here it works well well what about for the commercial they'll enter the lobby and just deliver to the museum or to Interfaith they'll have to Interfaith will have a receptionist they'll be able to deliver right to the receptionist the school will have a receptionist if you go up the stairs to the glass door the UPS guys will run up once we're on the second floor they come up all the time post service service go up the stairs all right so that may need to be coordinated if we need to add a mailbox in in the lobby we'll figure out how to do that if we had to for Interfaith and for the school I'm thinking about the neighboring buildings uh and I'm just wondering I know you touched on this very how do you feel like this building matches or fits in the neighborhood and the aesthetic of the other buildings it feels like it stands out a lot and doesn't kind of match any architecture or any the looks of the other buildings around it other than you mentioned the wood coloring of the houses next door okay there's not a lot of context for this building if you go to our South you have two two and a half story houses obviously this is a different animal than that what we tried to do is break the three levels down and break down the verticality of the building by these horizontal bands which helps the low the scale of the building by having the texture of the wood at the top we feel we've given it more of a of an intimate feel the second floor is the sort of the body of the building and if you if you know classical architecture the buildings are typically have a base a middle and a top we think in a in a in an unusual way but this building has a base a middle and a top so we think it relates it relates to the Springwood Center we're using metal on the second floor that will correspond to the metal across the street on Springwood Center Center we're using the wood because the Park View is just to the east of us there and this wood will be similar in in its material quality to the wood we used on the park viw homes so we think it does fit in I mean obviously this is not a two and a half story house it's a three-story build mixed use building so it's going to be a little different it is not traditional I don't think there's any there's any basis here to do some kind of traditional building because none of what what else is there is traditional other than some of the single families which in fact we did the two houses immediately behind that so we know what those are and historically this was this site had two and three story buildings on it so and again Springwood Avenue is the main Corridor on the West Side the buildings on this on the Main Avenue from a planning perspective should be a little bit grander in scale than the buildings As you move away from the main Carter and we think this building does that yeah it's not the scale the building that concerns me it's the it's just the the look of it but I understand I get where you're coming from I just disagree but it's okay I I I actually feel the same way James the the scaling the massing the the um kind of the feel you get from it I I like I like a lot um for me it's that there's so many different materials and if I look at if I just look at the first two floors it seems very cohesive to me then that third floor almost feels like like it was an addition it feels like it's totally different materials and when I look at it it it's almost a little jarring that it's so different from the first two um I would agree with that that was intentional we wanted the third floor to have standpoint it's different uses so I get why you want them to look different but from you know if I'm just walking down Springwood Avenue it it seems thir four seems very different yeah I don't know what's in that building walking on the street it just looks hot to me yeah I agree what you say there is the that Upper Floor Interfaith built the homes just just east of there um the the homes with the garage apartment behind the single family home the top floor really ties in that that's the whole point the residences the Parkview residences are wood clad they have wood siding we're using the similar material here to tie those two buildings together and I granted Brandon the form is different the scale is different but there's a material connection there that we thought was important it's a different Brown there's there's an opportunity to maybe think about how the coverings you have over these Terraces might be an a piece to mix in to to unify the facade up and down right you know just maybe introducing little pops of color here and there to make it feel separate but still part of the same building so I think there's just like color exploration that or or or that it or that it's closer to what's on the east side of these the buildings that you're comparing them to the colors are totally different than that well I get the dark brown I get where you're going with the dark brown but the light brown to me I just I don't get the light brown slat panels well the slats yeah I I agree with you there's I get that there's sort of an homage to what's nearby but I think um is so different from the rest of the building it loses the cohesiveness it loses the integrity and and it's further um you know it's not just there's no we don't have the verticality of the alignment of the windows or or other openings we've changed the orientation of the material the uh the color the texture it it's I think it's too many steps away from the rest of the building you can be different you know we want it to be different it's a different use it's a it's the top but I think it's again it's The Eclectic of it that's takes it a little one step too far um mam chck can I can I make a suggestion but it is I mean it's it's subjective the the criteria in the plan um you know call for having you know distinguishing the uses and having all these other things but um at the end of the day you know we have to feel like if it's in neighborhood if I could make a suggestion you know it sounds like you want to Workshop this a little bit I don't know that this is an appropriate forum for it either way I don't think the engineering will change significantly and the planning testimony relates to one variance only the setbacks that'll take two seconds with our planner Maybe a more appropriate way to proceed would be to punctuate Mr car's testimony right now go through the engineering and the planning and then maybe Workshop the this these other issues um and you know if you're talking about Workshop you're coming back again yes that's why it doesn't sound like we could have a DRC yeah yeah that's what I I I don't see this coming to a positive and I mean we have had some other items also which are in the same situation so with the entrances and whatnot so that's fine if I could I think we could complete Mr Fitzgerald and Mr Higgins this evening so that when we do come back we do a workshop and we do come back the only witness will have to go through with them presumably be Mr carage I think that's probably a more productive way PA still a subject to cross oh yeah absolutely absolutely well I mean we'll bring everybody back but I think that you know the the uh Steve would be primary witness next time and you know maybe we can accommodate somebody it's just you know suggestions coming from all different angles I think it'd be more productive to do with TRC I don't know what board members would attend but I leave that done to you maybe you could facilate there's a procedure okay we'll coordinate that and and and I mean I as I said I think that was strictly be architecture because I think the engineering and planning are pretty well fixed and all the entrances and exits and whatnot that we're suggesting well related to building alation might be Al that's fine right so does that conclude your testimony well like for today yeah but I'd like to the engineer plan oh no yes I'm saying for this right the add as the rest given by uh Steve and right yeah right before we get to the engineer I'd have to allow the public to crossens investment yeah so public want a question Mr Carl now I think y does the um does the board uh with that understanding does the board want to ask any other questions of this witness today before he comes back nothing else professionals Ma I just like the hard our review letter also has the six employees now I know it's not probably poor Steve but since it came out of his testimony that's definitely something I believe we should have number emplo change right because we're going to we're going to have to go through the CCH and the engineering reports so it's kind of like if you want to postpone going through those reports that's fine yeah up to you going to be altered cuz they're going to be altered so maybe we should not do those and I'm going to need hard numbers with the uh parking right right okay that's that's fine we'll do that but if Mr Carl is going to come back anyway can we hold public questioning no well that's if the members of the public want to come back may not okay all right I I would prefer to have the public ask questions to kind of complete this piece of it okay and they they're welcome to come back next time when you're back um so does the public have any questions that they would like this W ask this witness of anything that he has testified about today huh come on up hello Jennifer saer 1403 3rd Avenue um also um board president for the a park African-American music project at 1200 Neighbors we look forward to being good neighbors um I had two um quick questions you had talked a little bit about some of the Green Building strategies you had listed you talked about daylighting and I know it's part of the report so I don't know if you want to talk about that more tonight or wait till the report to talk about I'm sorry the the Green Building strategies you started mentioning a few like the photo voltaics the light um whether you wanted to talk about it now or another do you want to we we can talk about it next time if you like but we do need to put it on the list so the green the green of like the green you're talking about if you want me to respond to the question that's fine go for it we're here okay so from I don't know who I'm who I speak to here that I can hear you well he did touch on the on the solar panel that's not the full scope of your testimony yesterday no there was going to be more but we didn't get to it so so the next speed well that's I I would go I was going to until John decided we were coming back hour left no you you were coming back anyway before he decided so I know how to read it let me just say something in response to this question let's just do this go ahead we we know that you have a target number you look we're not trying to get a lead certification here we we all understand that we are not shooting for lead but we are we have looked at the lead sustainability checklist the green checklist and we have gone through a number of items and we believe that we are almost to the 50 number we're somewhere in a right now in the 40 to 50 range if you use the lead checklist so let me give you some ideas about some of the things we're doing we're we're doing a number of things to optimize energy performance we're going to have daylight controls we're going to have 15% reduction in energy usage from the ashay standards we're going to have a 20% total power reduction usage from ashay standards we're going to use all energy star appliances we're going to have photov voltaics and achieve a 10% on-site energy usage using photovoltaics we're going to um we're going to use environmentally conscious products where the manufacturer can provide the Declarations Each of which gets two points for each material all the materials you see in the rendering we know we can get U manufacturers uh sustainability declarations in under the lead program so there's a number of points we're getting there we're going to have indoor air quality enhancements we're going to be filtering both exterior and outside air we're going to add a walkoff grided all the vestibules to control the traffic the dirt traffic coming in we're going to avoid cross contamination on the HVAC side we're going to have operable Windows which gets us points we're going to use low uh emitting materials all of our paints and our insulations will be low vocc material we're going to um you get our points for thermal comfort for the interior lighting for our day lighting for the acoustical performance we go through all and we're also getting uh points for Innovation because both of project managers April and Brian were both here are both lead certified professionals with all the stuff I've just rattled off in summary we're in that 40 to 50 point range so we think we're very close what we haven't included in that so far is the three points that are available for commissioning and the reason we haven't included that is that that would require Interfaith and not for-profit to spend additional Monies to Pro to provide uh commissioning so we have not included that yet we have not included a building life cycle impact evaluation which is also a three Point item but again that requires additional expenditures on the part of the client and we have we are not able to take believe it or not we're not able to take the point for bicycle access even though we have the required number of racks in order to take the point you have to have a shower on the property and we don't have a shower available to B bicyclists so we can't take the point so just looking at those three items that's seven points right there that we're not able to take and we're in the mid-40s right now so we think we're going to be able to get there we're going to be very close to the 50 number um and again we're not seeking lead certification but we have a number of initiatives that we think put us in that 40 4550 range does that answer your your question yes thank you and um will that will the checklist once it gets develop be submitted with the um you know with the application well again we're not we're not going for lead certification we give you a summary of what we're proposing I just mean for this to the city not to the not to make it probably part of it absolutely absolutely thank you yes that answers and my second question is just when you're talking about the context of the neighborhood because you talked about the building that you developed across the street and that there's not a lot of the historic um fabric left but was there consideration given to the architecture of the Turf Club like relationship wise in terms of being next door and the corners of the street the the answer is no and the reason is we don't know what you're doing with the Turf Club yet we tried to have a dialogue and we didn't get information so we don't know what's going to happen with the turf buug so no we have not been able to incorporating any kind of a cross reference between our building and the tur um in relationship to the existing building is what I'm saying the existing CMU block building as it is today yeah I mean I I don't think we were trying to emulate that building no we're trying to create something different something that's more reflective of the different uses that we have something that is a little more vibrant on the street um but we did not use Surf Club as a model for what to develop how to develop this yeah and again we had this historical study done and and the consultant knew what we were doing and they didn't find any of our materials our elevations to provide any kind of a conflict to what you're doing in the toy your so that report was submitted as part of the application okay y anything else thank you no anybody else from the public that would like to question the uh the witness based on what was stated today no okay now we also have to have Paul subject to rec examination he gave extensive Tes yes was there anything else that uh we anybody would like to question Paul on anything that he testified outside of his F initial testimony uh anyone want to ask any questions of Paul anything that he said well I'm sure he'll be back as well he must be much more articulate than me okay all right thank you okay so maybe we can call Mr Prince gereral and just take a run through of the you want a five minute break all right hang on yes we're ready uh can we take a break please we're still leaving yeah we're still leaving start it up all right um we're just going to take a 5 minute break please we go Motion for recess we're all in favor literally five minutes Miss Marie computer issues come up it's going to take a half an hour got another not good okay what's up we have I also have an issue withm not working this machine I know start start the start roll mic okay it's coming right 908 got it okay roll call James Bano here Eric alipo here Jim Henry here Jeremy Hoffman president mayor Moore here Daniel sheno Vice chair gonan here chairwoman Barbara K here oh might be okay right while we're while we're waiting for that maybe Madam chair we could talk about carrying this to a date certain so I don't have to Reen notice there's a I know what you're yes you'll be able to do that after we at the at the end of this yes we will yeah okay we have to find what the what the next date is that's uh appropriate it'll be sometime in uh August or July Late July no it's going to have to be August if we want to have a DRC well we need a DRC meeting yeah so would be August 5th or September 9 let me look all right we only have one in August August 5th I won't be here August 5th but all right I neither why but okay September 9th September 9th I will not be here on at night or during the day itas so we don't have to notice the DRC I apologize Microsoft I mean do you have another witness that's that is available today to speak we were going to finish tonight with Mr Fitzgerald we can okay so um is someone else going to do the who's going to do the lighting plan and I got that you have the lighting I apologize an engineer how about landscape I got that you have that too there we go I'm someone you dring storm water as well yes ma' okay real sorry we have it here load on this here I got the trash remove the panels at the corner remove it's weird into the park here isn't it open there okay I'm sorry it's Microsoft people keep talking should be Tak all right we got we use your arit Compu oh well no it doesn't make you go we all know exactly why it's but it's not give it a [Music] shot I just is that okay all right the truth no truth or nothing but the truth I do state your name for the record and tell us your affiliation the applicant uh my name is William E Fitzgerald I'm a licensed professional engineer and planner in the state of New Jersey I'm not here on a planning basis here on engineering basis I'm the applicant site engineer for the project similar to what I Mr car similar to what I said to Mr carage I assume you're still in good standing with your licenses since the last time you testified for their last project correct Okay Okay so we've had enough warm up here so I apologize for that but uh machine once Microsoft upgraded it it's never worked when I turned it off and back on again in any event it's my work computer so this is the cover sheet of my 11 sheet site plan set which we submitted uh it's revised through May 23rd and uh I think everybody at this point knows where it is at the corner of Springwood and it's also B barded by Atkins and Adams um so if we can move on the second sheet basically is existing conditions and there's nothing but by way of structure on the site so yeah move on this is the site layout plan it encompasses most of what was talked about earlier except it focuses on the lower level parking area the building as you can see is a lower right corner or the uh the northwesterly corner of the site and that is just shaded without much articulation uh along the walk to the North or along the Springwood Avenue Frontage of the building you can see as you go from left to right that there are two tree squares we have the most that's the most trees we can get uh as defined by the ordinance um respecting clearances as to exit doorways from the building uh there's also a light if you look at the second tree Square uh there's a light just to the right of that that light at one point existed about half of that distance closer to the corner but it apparently was taken out by a vehicle um and so uh in order to provide the required 12T clearance from an exit way to the building we moved it a little bit farther to the east um and that provides that respects the 12 ft from the primary entrance to the building at the corner uh behind the building is the parking layout the heavy dotted line circling the greater percentage of the upper right corner of the block is the building overhang so everything under that heavy dotted dash line if you will I'm sorry uh is underneath building so the only thing essentially not beneath the building are some landscape areas along Springwood uh and along Avenue a and then a thin landscaped area about 5T wide along atams between the sidewalk and the building and along Atkins we have upwards of 30 ft of landscaped area within the front yard of the building building so you can see the directional arrows and the crosswalks uh for the driveway through the one-way driveway through from Atkins to Avenue a that serves as a drop off uh for early early uh I guess it's Early Education early year education okay there are two places at which crosswalks will be striped to cross from that area to either The Refuge area or the parking area go back if you would please I'm sorry um there are also if you look coming in from Atkins the first thing you see as you make the turn in behind the Turf Club building are a number of bicycle racks two four 6 8 I believe there are 14 there I'm sorry 12 and then if you look uh where the architect had mentioned uh there's an emergency there's a vestibule and emergency exit uh in the parking area that's also surrounded by curb and and a pedestrian path and I have there are another six bicycle storage uh racks there okay so the primary drop off as we said is a 15-way oneway aisle from Atkins through to Avenue a and on the right side of it or the building side of it uh or the first floor side of it are four 24 by8 ft parking stalls temporary for drop off uh the Stalls are designed so that they don't take up any more room than necessary each stall itself is 18 ft with a 6ot no parking stall at either end of it so you share the the hair the uh stripe areas there's are each six feet wide so each stall has 24 feet of area for for maneuvering but 18 ft to place the vehicle which is adequate is is that open Alleyway is that open space between the Turf Club and the two story building yes so I'm not sure what the Turf Club set back is but this building is set back a half a foot 6 in from its property line from its easterly property line so if I had to guess I'd say the Turf Club is set back around 5 to six feet from its from the common border so that Isel property Turf Club between the Turf Club building and see where my cursor is on Springwood this is the property line This is the property line on Springwood right where the cursor is so our building is set back about 6 Ines from that line my the line weights are heavy to make them nicely readable so they kind of encroach a little bit okay so then that takes care a drop off now those spaces I'm a father and a grandfather and because I work for myself and have and everyone else has employers I'm the only one doesn't have to be to work so I've done my fair share of dropping off either kids or uh or grand children over the years and I've noticed that the mornings drop offs typically span almost two hours because parents have to be to work at all different times so those that are driving uh I've rarely seen it and I've been at a number of schools over a lot of years really seen everybody there at the same time or even within you know 5 10 minutes most of them parents start work at different times has been my experience so so four is what we have and hopefully it will be adequate I think that there is way a way to make uh entrance is not that far removed from Avenue a anyway it's it's all of about 24t 25 ft from the sidewalk along a Avenue a to the entrance to the building so I'm not even sure from a convenience point of view it needs a whole leather door as I said it's it's under a covered it's on a covered walkway for about 20 ft is all is 25 ft in any event that that one way aisle provid for a drop off and provid for the typical kinds of loading unloading that an office building would take which is fundamentally Amazon type deliveries or UPS or mail type deliveries and those Vehicles can park there also because again the pickup drop off for the uh for the school early childhood schooling is going to be early in the morning and late in the afternoon and there should almost always be spaces available in those temporary slots during the day to accommodate uh small Vehicles like vans drop off fans the parking area for the residents is a dedicated parking area with a two-way driveway uh from Avenue a and uh there parking stalls will be Loop stalls to accommodate the structure columns holding up the building as well as to make sure people Park loop stalls are always a good idea whether they have columns in them or not it just makes people kind of align themselves or an encourages it doesn't make them encourages them to align themselves with the parking stalls really well so the drop off areas will also be used for building delivery system they can sure and will also be used for trash pickup no trash pickup okay so if you go over to Atkins Avenue and you see the one-way Arrow driveway in for the drop off you'll see a it's not a rectangular but it's not triangular either it's a trapezoidal if you will uh area that's it that area is a little bit of landscaped area and immediately to the south of that is a wider driveway uh and The Refuge bins and recycling B are stored within that that enclosure will be a masonry block enclosure okay so that it it's not just a typical fence it actually as Paul alluded to could possibly uh be accommodate some type of public art because the walls will be blocked with parging so but that area is the is the pickup drop off for refuges so the board's aware this was something that came about in our first meeting with the applicant the turning to get into the ref area was just way too tight so when you're trying to get a truck in it just want work Jerald and his officer himself did adjust it to have it more skew I I still do my opinion is still problem circulation I also have an issue with where the tenants are going to be dropping off the trash you well the tenants the tenants lead the trash from the from the residence where the tenants is managed by the building and it's kept in the trash room and and they're the ones that bring it out to the the refu bins that and the correct so someone internally will be yes that that's function okay as far as uh I I think uh we have a demonstration here uh and I know we can try this um it's a whole it's a separate sheet in here so can you close this sheet and I go back to my file no no it's not in this set okay so have that yeah you do oh it's in there okay so if I may a vehicle like a a an urban type Refuge collection vehicle is a single unit vehicle typically they're anywhere from 35 to 39 ft long okay and they have these would be front loaders this will be a scavenger by the way this is not a this is not the the city public works department picking this up we're sanitation this would be a private scavenger hired by the owner operator of the building so these typ of trucks have have a shorter wheelbase they have a wheelbase in the area of 35 to 36 ft versus a typical design vehicle that that someone like an an agency like ashow would use which would have a 40ft wheelbase so these have these can make a tighter turn and their turning radius for the front wheels is in the area of 36 to 37 ft um sorry where am I while looking he did show myself that turn R it does appear to be it's just something but but is it can I ask that that dependent on the type of truck that is used so we have to put that into resolution compliance to say You must use this kind of truck to do use your pickup yeah we can't guarantee that every private service is the same size truck every block in the sidewalk we know that that's an issue oh there it is I'll be bring that up okay so this is the Astro designed vehicle which has a a turning radius of of I I want to say 42 feet 40 ft and we make the assump because Adams is one way uh to the West that Vehicles approaching this for pickup are going to come from Springwood and head south on Atkins there's no convenient way for a refuge collection vehicle to be coming uh North on Atkin we also make the assumption that it's at odd hours and that even if there are cars parked on the street to make that movement the truck would have to uh encroach on the Northbound Lane for the short time of terms to make take takes to make that turn but however it can make that turn and square off uh to the colle to the Refuge container containment area if you will and stop with the forks down which are six feet fr the front of the truck as I've got it shown there it can access either one of those spaces with one turn and and back out again okay so I'm not sure that's a a wider radius uh than these vehicles typically uh would use but this is a designed vehicle so it accommodates them I mean there's you can restrict it as you see fit uh that's your prerogative as a board obviously but the way we've designed it there's no need for a restriction it can easily be done okay and I I think that right but but when you're when when you're saying that these vehicles have to be have be so long there's also an additional 6 ft no no it's shown Okay so a little bit difficult but it is shown it's got it back up and and there's parking on that other side right on the other if okay so if you ma' if you would the dotted line that the follow the front wheel follows okay that is 9 ft from the curve line on the other side which is in the right of way no question okay it's it's unpaved so I'm assuming that there's most vehicles are 6 and 1/2 ft so I'm assuming that that left side of that truck the driver side of that truck can can pass for a short distance at 9 ft away from the curve line without bothering any parked vehicles that was why I I showed it that way okay so you can there's a dimension there it's a little bit hard to read I don't know how to zoom y zoom in that area paring on the east side on the east so I've got some some notes in here okay so that's a 42t radius uh that's a 42t radius turning in there the dimensions of the truck are all there these are uh standard I'll show you where I got the information in a second but it's Peter Bilter any one of any number of of Manufacturers make these trucks you can see that I've already extended the 6 ft of fork in the front Okay and he can still Square off to it so um we think it it's even if he had to make a small maneuver it to me that's not a big deal now I can angle it more in a counterclockwise direction if you will okay and and make it an easier turn oh that that will be up to our engineer to we're happy to sit and work with them I mean that's not we certainly don't want to have it built and not work no obviously obvious so um okay so can we just review one just for my own edification we're saying that Atkins goes both ways Adams is that a oneway street or is that a two-way street Adams is oneway oneway going west correct and Avenue a two-way it's a according to this it's not it's a oneway but is it a two-way cuz according to this plan it's aing to my plan a right here it shows a is two yes okay so the okay I didn't I I forgot to pick that up two I apologize the first survey I got showed it as two-way okay and uh and I didn't pick that up so thank you I apologize but all right so then so then currently there are no curb cuts on this oh actually there is a curb cut on this piece of land from what I saw when I passed by this morning so there is a curb cut in the front and that's going to go away that's going to go away and now you're asking for four curb cuts well three well four I see four but go ahead tell me well okay so that the one curve cut on nain is one long one with an island to help direct traffic and buffer the uh the refu recyclable area okay and what's the what's what's the length of that uh I believe it's 4 totally total 46 we plan like 46t no saying from how much on the curb it's 46 ft on on the plant all right so 46 ft okay the depressed curb is actually 40 ft and then the the flares on either end or make it 46 total okay what about the one that's on the coming out onto Avenue a with a drop off how how big is that okay the drop off is 15 ft plus the flares but I didn't put much flare on it because on that side the sidewalk AB buts the curb directly so to put put flares on it uh doesn't work really well what you have to do is because it's got to be a barrier-free walkway you bring the curve down at 1 and 12 8.3% if you will and and the sidewalk comes with it so for a good portion of that area the sidewalk is mountable so that that takes the place of the flares making the flares and and trying to do the grading makes it really a wacky grade if it's a little wet or slippery it's just not a great situation this is a better solu and the one on Avenue which is the in and out of residence how big how large is that that should be 30 ft but let me it's about 30 ft it's 24 plus 6 46 again it says 46 it's different actually sorry 24 something okay so the driveway is 40 foot but again because of the slopes it's not a flare driveways like not flare driveways it's 40 feet on the street so we're losing 40t I'm what I'm getting at is understanding how much parking are we losing that's what I'm getting at is to say with all these driveways how many parking spaces are we losing off the street with me we'll take a quick look at that for you cuz it's like when you're saying was it 24 looks like it say 24 it's 24 24 24 there 15 over here 15 and then you got 46 so we're losing 1 two 31 yeah one more time so you have a 24t depressed opening for your why did you need 44t okay because the curb comes down at 8% has to barer free sidewalk is right against the curb it's got to be with it okay just you you calling out 5% Max yeah 5% Max that but you're right I made that 5% and I didn't bring it up as high in the middle so it would be I don't need handrails and stuff so right so I apologize so so we made this 5% sidewalks which don't require handrails right because they're not ramps if you will and once you get past 5% you have a ramp so but once again I'm looking to see how many how many parking spaces are we losing you're losing approximately four parking stalls four parking space well 46 ft is how many parking spaces not quite two a little over two a little over two plus you're going to you're going to probably put yellow yeah I know think I think you're going to lose about 100t so I was thinking 24t stall so about five parking space right we typically use stalls 21 horizontal par parallel stalls are typically a little bit more all right we're going to lose a least that okay all right okay so we shoot back in okay so uh again again this pretty much takes care of the layout you can see that the Shaded area of the building where we have the emergency uh egress there uh is on the south side of the parking area and again it's got sidewalk around it and some bicycle storage and there's an emergency door emergency only door and a short walkway that takes you out to the uh sidewalk on uh on Avenue A um no I'm sorry Adams right let's go to Landscaping light next to she what it is okay this is a uh this is a grading plan and what we're really doing here is managing storm water by using the parking lot as one big Inlet so the the the parking and driveway surfacing will be a porest paper system porest brick papers and that those systems can accommodate upwards of 60 to 65 in per hour of rainfall beneath the area and we'll get there in a minute but but this this area has a very shallow flat grade it does move the water across to the curve lines but the idea is any water coming to it uh mostly off Vehicles because the only place that really heavy rain would hit are the two uh areas where they're uh oneway driveway in and the refu area driveway they're the only ones that are not over overhung by building having said that even if it was windy all that water goes right down to the storage system which is below this area we go to the m next so this is an illustration showing how the drainage is going to work I won't be labor you with it we'll be sound asleep but fundamentally what I have is Forest paper system on top a subgrade of compacted Stone which directs it to one of two things either a collection trench or a storage bed subsurface storage bed that collect trenches all our collect water and pipe it to the storage bed so there are two storage beds both in the upper or southernly half of the uh of the area beneath the resident parking and once it's collected in there it's pumped at a very slow rate into the existing system and the reason it's a very slow rate is because as I showed you earlier an existing conditions there are no structures no no impervious cover on the site so the rate of runoff coming from the site as it presently exists is very low for the 2-year storm we have to cut it in half that mandated a pump the pump is going to pump the the two-year rate for every storm that it hits so you're never going to have as long as your storm isn't exceed the 100-year threshold you'll never have a rate leaving this site greater than the current two years than half of the current two-year storm so it's a substantial decrease in the rate at which runoff leaves the site all of the roof drains are piped directly Down The Columns and into the storage beds down below so as I said the only place that rainfall is really going to hit surfacing is the two driveways which are on the east side the oneway entry and the driveway to the refu recyclable area but all of the roof catches runoff and all of that runoff is pipe directly down to the beds other runoff could come from snow blowing in and Mel on the papers running off cars but that's all minor but we did that because water quality is an issue and a poorest P system prvious paper system with the right mix of aggregate under it regulates or or meets the regulation for total spe suspended solids removal of 80% so all of the water is treated as the quality and the runoff is mitigated well beyond any standard of of the city the county or the state um Sam which which water this go does this go to Wesley yes he is correct so this doesn't me all state stor management standards it's not kind digress discussion tonight there's a lot of that should really be going into the perious papers well we have if we have an approval you'll get a good manual okay I've done a ton of them but uh it's almost back you're supposed to be cleaning Bo to allow that per so that has to be in in our in our recommendations it has to be in there so we have to remember to put that in so one of the one of the requirements of the state as well as the city regulations is that a system of this type must be accompanied by a a operation and maintenance manual yes okay and so you'll have that I just didn't do it at this point because no it's understood it's understood but we need we need to put that into our into our requirements y so you're you're satisfied s okay all right next one all right so this is the landcape plan uh again it shows starting from Springwood and working to the south in Springwood we're able to get two trees uh within the frontage and respecting the required clearances from erress doors and one light is replaced along the front of the building and along I'm sorry along the Northerly facade of the building and the Westerly facade of the building the first floor of the building we have beds uh narrow but beds largely Evergreen very tough very drought resistant good City type uh Urban type uh Hardscape supplements and both tree beds uh have Evergreen supplements around so it's not just a a tree grate or a lot of mulch around the bottom of the trees they're all Evergreen planted okay along again the the southerly side of Avenue a uh we have a very narrow beds but planted with Evergreens and along atams between the parking and the sidewalk which is marginally 5 and 1/2 ft distance we have an a variety largely Evergreens okay so that you have a presence all winter but a Vari Vari types we have needle leaf and Broad Leaf Evergreens some tall and thin some a little bit wider and fatter nothing wider than 4 feet at maturity when you get to Atkins we have a little more space and so we have a a screen hedge if you will along the easterly side of the parking area and along the southernly side of the Refuge curve line uh the street trees along atams and Atkin uh are in a linear layout and they're within a 5 foot easen and they're within approximately 3 ft of the edge of the sidewalk which is I think what we discussed when had our technical review meeting so I've shown you the 5 foot easement there and of course the easement will be a recorded easement and will the terms will be exactly what you need to be able to what would you say uh access and maintain but not you have the ability or the right but not the uh not the requirement to uh to do that okay also then between the refu driveway and the oneway a drop off driveway we have a as I said that trapezoidal type shaped curve line but we've got a tree and and a number of of Evergreen plantings in there just to give a little break between the the typical driveway use and a rare but necessary refug recyclable driveway what's in the community G I'm sorry okay so as I understand it that the there is something of informal Community gardening on the site now I don't know much about it but I can look at the vegetation and see that it's got a little bit of that going on uh and I I believe that uh that Interfaith has uh operated cooler Farm around the corner uh successfully and I think some of the use here uh maybe should be a community garden managed by the same people that manage a cooler farm so it's not going to be a pav there it's not going to be a paved area no so part of the site already is being used by Kula as part of the Community par the idea was they want to still preserve some space for that use I you know if I had to tell you honestly I think what it's going to be is largely mulch ground cover with fruit bearing type trees versus crops it's really not an area big enough to do a lot of crop stuff but uh I think you can plant a number it because it's the uh the easterly side of the site and this sun rais that comes from Southeast to Southwest uh it's very conducive to the tree fruit bearing trees at the lighting plan uh there are two areas that are lit uh I've only done the lighting plan for the uh for the one-way drop off and the uh refu recyclable driveway all we do is have one pole with two luminares the luminares are at 16 ft I realize that's a design waiver but there's a reason uh and uh they are sky dark sky friendly full cut off luminares the lighting illumination levels and is of foot candles are on on the chart I will tell you that uh that that these lights that we're using here uh have less total lumens per Lumin a than the street lights uh used by the city okay so there are little bit higher the street light Ed for the city if I if I remember right that detail should be right on the sheet Here There It Is these are 3,000k no these are 2700 but it seems as though the numbers are high right these are 2700 than we normally have 2700 is the lowest you can get and that's your right but but I'm saying that the levels1 candle at the property L yeah we okay so I have to be honest I've looked at your ordinance on prior projects uh some I've worked on some I haven't but to be honest it's very very difficult to have a light at that low and have an area light that meets that standard it's nearly impossible yeah so it might be better served by some other combination okay so the reason that we we didn't feel it was terrible is because the overspill if you will is on a public sidewalk and a RightWay which is if you were going to over illuminate anything if you want to call it that level over illumination uh that's the best place to over illuminate is we have pedestrian traffic I will tell you that the illumination levels for these lights are not terribly different than the illumination levels on the sidewalk probably maybe less uh that you'll see on the Springwood Avenue sidewalk by the city lights and I say that because the city lights have more overall total lumens and the lens is 14 foot 8 in from the ground and these are 16 ft and that's why I asked for the design W as you know if I take a light uh take you can it's like a little thought experiment if you take a flashlight and hold it a foot above the table you'll get a circle maybe four or five inches in diameter and it goes from very bright to nothing if you hold it up 2 feet you get a much more level level much more uniform illumination and it takes a lot longer to disperse so uh raising lights typically provide you with a better illumination plan than lowering them because when you lower them you get bright dark bright dark bright dark IES has found that lower more uniform illumination levels are safer for drivers than highly variable alumination levels on on site driveways parking areas so that's why we are asking for the design waiver I don't know that I can get much less than this I will see if we can get dimmers uh some of these fixtures can be dimmable and the dimmers could be Set uh I will look into that but right because we because we we normally go less than one one or less well so two separate things driveway the correct to the driveway side this in Atkins there's an existing you know P mounted light on the other side of the street okay so hang hang on hang on we're just speaking here hang on so so I get that they're trying to do dual purpose you know serving this sort of Maintenance area refuse whatever and provide kind of little overflow or um the right of way especially at that entrance right um it's it's just a little concerning because you know we have residences across the street we do have residents across the street of Atkins for sure we do want you know Illumination in the right way that should be brighter than what you might have on site um you know serving different purposes interested all if I may I we try to zoom in I know this is hard to read but I'm going to start down by the uh down by the lower part of that driveway and I'm going to read the elimination levels off the curb along the curve line mhm. 5848 38 36. 5559 then I'll go to the parking lot The Edge I'm sorry the RightWay line which is a multi-line some dotted some heavy something okay 1.09 0.98 0.84 0.83 0.98 1.09 71 I mean they're not excessive um are you going to be providing us a lighting plan for what comes out of the out of the garage non-garage okay so yes so so I believe that's on architect's plans now but what your planner and engineer as for and we're perfectly happy with is one Consolidated lighting plan because I did not do the with all of the levels now I can tell you honestly given the shadows and given everything there's not going to be a lot of interplay between what's in the garage but but it's easier to look at one sheet and see it no absolutely I would prefer that and because there are there's a business on the other side of Adams and you know on Avenue A we just want to make sure what kind of spillage we have so I appreciate you getting a getting us one Consolidated plan right that' be great we'll also do the street lights on on Springwood provided that Hadco can give me the right IES files I tried and they don't okay they they're not good okay so think after that we're pretty much down to erosion siment control and details which we know would be if the board sees fit to approve the application be conditions of any approval get certification from Freehold soil and Mammoth County planning board and all of that stuff but uh but the details of the engineering pretty much covered uh does the uh the planning board have any questions of this uh witness yeah I know there's going to be variances can you just discuss what the variances are the only variants we me that I'm aware of and I might be wrong are the setbacks because I believe the ordinance requires a zero setback on Prof but we have four Street lines so it it and to make the pre application conference concept of a little bit of landscaping along the building we had to have some setbacks there it makes sense if the Turf Club is going to be developed to have at least a half a foot setback which is what we have so they can do their construction no matter what they want to do and be able to access their property uh and the backside is just some green space for the farm and and access driveways that is the only variance there are a couple of design waivers that we've talked about but no but this is we're talking about engineering right now let's stick to to engineering okay thank you all right so you will be you'll be back anyway with the lighting um well I probably won't be because it won't be that does the combin comb okay well somebody's going to have to go through the engineering report so I just want to know who's going to go through that well I guess I'll have to be back okay next time we so will somebody else go through that or will this gentleman the lighting I think no no just the engineering report I'll I'll come back with the Eng okay because we have to go through that still we have not done that right okay anything else any other questions from the planning board members of this witness for today no him or somebody else the staging of the project how's that going to happen well okay so on the the erosion s control plan uh which I don't know if we can zoom in on that what eight minutes over eight minutes yeah it's it's there it is okay so there's an anticipated construction sequence sorry okay on the first sheet of the engineer of the erosion set of control there's an anticipated construction sequence for construction now that's how I would probably manage it if I was managing the construction but I can't say specifically how the owner will choose to manage his construction staging plan will be developed in conjunction James right we need to have a staging plan if this gets approved we need a staging plan all applications right just like with all applications we need a staging plan because we have you know sidewalk closures we're on a main thorough Fair Springwood a is as busy as it's ever been with a lot of people use that as a thorough fair so we have to be very careful about any closures that might be anticipated and we need to have that in the staging plan okay any other questions from the board or the Professionals for this witness any questions from the public to this Prof this witness about what was said today no oh I thought of phew more we talked about parking go ahead EV we we haven't spoke this gentleman has not spoken about parking at all which is something we have to speak speak so there will be as I understand can I can I if I may next time parking will take us a while I would prefer to have that as a next time because we close at 10: and we're five up so yes parking has to be discussed just like lighting will have to be discussed that will be discussed it's not a two-minute discussion with this board ever okay so okay anything from the from the members of the public that would like to ask questions of this witness okay Ion L 9008 cookman Avenue I'm also a member of the board for the Turf Club and just a quick just a quick question um I know that on the south side of your building there is a 5- foot separation between your building and the Turf Club what is the separation on the I'm sorry on the West Side what is the separation on the South Side uh sidewalk goes to the property line you're going to be at the property line yeah I'll try tell you one second all right so it looks like the Turf Club is a half a foot off its southernly property line and our sidewalk goes to the southernly property line but it is only sidewalk it's not a building no second and third floors of building but oh I'm sorry the the upper portion of the building I'm thinking first FL the upper portion of the building goes through within half foot of the property and the lower portion of the building same well okay it depends on what you are there on the southern property line of the Turf Club which would be the rear relative to Springwood Avenue okay it looks like the Turf Club goes to about a half a foot from the common boundary and our building goes to about a half a foot from the common boundary but our building along that line is only second and third story The the lower is parking or driveway behind the Turf Club is predominantly sidewalk at driveway not with building overhang okay all right thank you okay any other public comments or question I should say questions of this witness okay thank you sorry for the delay that's okay see you soon I hope so you you'll be back we have to carry it yes we will we will okay um can I get a motion for this application to be carried to uh September sep 9th September 9th without notice correct so move second okay September 9th without notice okay so anticipate put it on your calendars there's no notice meeting which means any any rision that out of the you know we have to schedule that part can those hopefully maybe this month sorry I don't know if we a DRC this mon well that'll have to be up to marwood will help us out there I just want to make sure we have enough time to all right thank you very much thank you for your patience thank you all for coming to vote we have to oh yes we have to vote on uh the carrying till September I believe that Jim motioned it J yes yes and yes uh can I a motion to adjourn so Mo all right thank you