welcome everyone today's Tuesday April 9th 2024 this is a regular meeting of the city of Asbury Park Zoning Board of the adjustment chairman avalone will you please call this meeting to order I'd be happy to this meeting is being held in compliance with the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to to the coaster and Asbury Park Press by publication of the annual meeting notice and posted on the municipal bulton board and Municipal website all notices are in file with the board secretary official action may be taken on the following matters before this board fire exits are located on the east to west sides of the council chambers as well as the back of the building I ask everyone with a cell phone or any other device to kindly silence your device for the duration of this meeting and this meeting is being recorded by APV roll call please Marie Wendy Glassman Daniel Harris is absent at the moment Russell Lewis Here Jill Potter here Tim slick is absent um our newest member Natalie pasini here um Vice chair John Scully here and uh chairman chrisopher alone here all right so I would like to officially welcome Natalie pasini as as our new alternate number one welcome to the board I hope you enjoy it welcome welcome and so we have first up is an executive session I'll read the resolution into the minutes whereas njs 2 colon 4-12 the open public meetings act permits the exclusion of the public from a meeting of the board in certain circumstances and whereas the board hereby moves to close the public hearing and convene in close executive session in order to discuss the staff appointment of a board engineer for 20 2024 pursuant to njs 24-12 B8 which is permitted by the provisions of the open public meetings act and whereas it is anticipated at this time that the results of the discussions will be made public after the discussion at the option of the board now therefore be it resolved by the city of Asbury Park zoning Board of adjustment that it will hereby close the public portion of of this meeting in order to convene in private executive session for the reasons set forth I make a motion to adopt the resolution to go into executive session I'll second um Wendy Glassman yes Russell Lewis yes Jill Potter yes Natalie pasini yes Vice chair John Scully yes and chairman Christopher avalone yes so we will be back all right I will uh take roll call um Wendy Glassman here Daniel Harris is absent Russell Lewis Here Jill Potter here Tim slick is absent Natalie pasini here Vice chair Scully here chairman alone here all right so first thing up is I'll make a motion to adopt the resolution for 1510 3rd Avenue I'll second okay 153d Avenue so um Daniel Harris is absent Russell Lewis yes Jill Potter yes Tim slick is absent Vice chair Scully yes and chairman avalone yes okay all right so uh I I'll make a motion now to adopt as our new engineering firm avakian Incorporated a second Chris John okay uh Wendy Glassman yes Russell Lewis yes Jill Potter yes Natalie pasini yes Vice chair Scully yes and chairman avalani yes chair just a quick question just so we have it correct on the resolution is it leak I guess yes Leon sakian in yeah I didn't know if they changed the name no no it's still Leon uh and I make a motion to adopt as our conflict engineer tnm second okay okay Wendy Glassman yes Russell Lewis yes Jill Potter yes Natalie pasini Vice chair Scully yes and chairman avalani yes all right so now we need to adopt the resolutions is is that the way we should handle it Marie or um for for the um from the appointments yes yeah Jack prepared it right I think so yes yes so I'll just uh start with um I make a motion to adopt the resolution for Leon S avakian incorporated as our board engineer second Wendy Glassman yes Russell Lewis yes Jill cter yes Natalie pasini yes Vice chair Scully yes and chairman avalone yes and now I make a motion to adopt tnm as our conflict engineer to adopt the resolution for the conflict engineer of TNN second okay Wendy Glassman yes Russell Lewis yes Jill Potter yes Natalie pasini yes Vice chair Scully yes and chairman avalone yes all right so we have two applications the first for carrying I make a motion to carry the 1201 Bridge Street Gaylord rural application to June 11th 2024 I'll second Joe poter did that did that have notice or is there no notice re with new notice with new notice check noce no no this this with new notice yes um Wendy Glassman yes Russell Lewis recused Jill Potter yes Natalie pasini she no yeah okay so John Scully recused and chairman avalone yes so just to be clear that was an application that started yes okay so Natalie you can arrange with Marie to listen to the tapes okay and then at the next heing you'll be able to yeah I think we're into like the third meeting already yeah I've watched them you've watched them okay so there's a certification that you'll do with next you can deler Le three all right we're good all right so 306th Avenue Mr Kennedy good evening Mr chair I did have an opportunity to review the notices relative to this application it is um it's it's a coming back to us from a resolution that the board did approve I want to say in 2020 still um but uh I did look at the notice everything looks fine to me as long as what the Rel that they're requesting is B on that thank you Jeff Mr Kennedy thank you uh good evening uh to Mr chairman and ladies and gentlemen the board and the new board member and professionals my name is Kevin Kennedy I'm an attorney in Red Bank um and I'm here tonight on behalf of my clients first all I apologize for my less than casual ex uh appearance tonight I had an unexpectedly hectic afternoon with uh not one but two crises so I didn't have time to home change I apologize but I'm here tonight on behalf of my clients uh James and Kathleen done with regard to the property at 300 6th Avenue Asbury Park now the applicants as Mr beakman uh just indicated received approval from this very board in July of 2022 for construction of a single family home on the site the resolution was adopted uh no known appeal period and construction is underway in fact it is substantially complete a a temporary CO as been issued as I understand it turns out that there have been several deviations with respect to what was approved and what is actually built and on behalf of my clients I am here tonight respectfully seeking amended approval for some of those deviations and modifications and uh my team myself do not come here lightly um I do not like uh to be in this position where we're coming in uh to retroactively uh seek approval uh to make modifications may I just interrupt you for a second you mentioned that you have a TCO um who who granted the TCO my client will address that um momentarily if if that's okay are they living there now no they are not and we'll we'll have that confirmed okay and uh so primarily these days I am uh uh fortunate enough to be mostly a board attorney um so as a board attorney I know it's board members are never real happy to have people coming back to retroactively seek uh modifications uh I have been on your side of the aisle on this equation and I can certainly understand that my experience is that in these situations some board members can feel uh anger and frustration and confusion and betrayal and sadness and angst and loss of patience I get that and I fully understand that many other times not in this situation I have experienced clients or have witnessed where may I interrupt you again Mr Kennedy we have one of members coming back oh great we just to hello Mr Harris welcome so Mr Kennedy since Mr Harris came in after your application started but we haven't started any witness do you have any objection to ke delivery I have no objection whatsoever thank you thank you we just started and do you have any objection if he V if he votes I have no objection whatsoever thank you dud and Mr Harris good evening my name is Kevin Kennedy and just the 10-c recap I'm here tonight on behalf of my clients for 600 I'm sorry 300 uh 6th Avenue uh we previously obtained approval and there has been some deviation so we're coming back here now for those U hopefully for modified approval and so Mr chairman I understand some of the frustration that board members might feel and as I was saying many other times not in this situation but many other times when I get to the heart of it and I say to either a client as the board attorney or or My Private Client I say why did you do this and I get such nonsensical answer as uh well the government shouldn't tell me what I'm supposed to do uh what's the big deal uh was I just figured it was better to do it now and just ask for forgiveness later it was quicker to do it this way it was cheaper to do it this way uh I didn't want to waste time getting permits and I didn't think I would get caught I have no patience for any of those answers and I'm sure you would not and should not either I can absolutely assure you that that is not the case that we have tonight and if it were respectfully I I would not not be here there are definitely differences and deviations from what was approved and what was built and my clients own that they're not running away from that um they apologize for this confusion and the deviations uh but I assure you and as we will explain there was no bad faith here there was no intent to manipulate or game the system or bastardize the system and we recognize obviously that the buck stops with the applicants the applicants are responsible um for their actions and inactions and the actions and inactions of their team but just to advise the board and Mr chairman where where we're going tonight my client uh will under oath um provide what I think are um fairly uh compelling uh reasons as to why the deviations uh took place and again we can never turn back the time had I had the ability to do so I would say get approval ahead of time but we we can't uh turn back but essentially uh a great number of the deviations uh were stemming from code requirements and public health and safety requirements and also the underside the the the lot is um under has an under is under does not have the com uh requisite with so in a nutshell my clients are going to testify tonight about a their sincere heartfelt apologies and B confirmation that absolutely no work was performed without permits in fact the clients are going to testify that uh Municipal officials were wonderful they had an open communication and and and very quick and repeated um inspections I think the client even uh said that at one of the officials said you're one of the first people who got approved on first shot for for all your inspections um some of the deviations were suggested by the municipal uh in inspectors as a result of code requirements and Public public health and safety um and some of the deviations uh generally uh Believe It or Not result from covid related issues and supply chain issues and product unavailability and um the applicant Builder is and who is here is definitely not one of those type of gentlemen who is a hey we'll worry about it later type of at attitude we did not have that attitude at all uh some of the deviations why while still deviations are actually less intense than what was previously approved again still deviations uh my clients will also testify that it never occurred to them that what they were doing constituted a potential violation um they did not ever think that there was any new variances or any as exacerbation of previously granted uh variances and um my client will testify that while there were certain features which were not necessarily specific conditions of approval but were nonetheless details which were on the previously approved plans and again he just did not think necessarily that that the change would would constitute a violation uh there were onsite field conditions that drove and contributed a number of these again given the the the nature of the lot and um some of the deviations were driven by our our Builder and Consultants saying things hey you you can't do it this way this is not code compliant or this is not going to be this is going to look aesthetically compromised my client will also testify that uh he wasn't necessarily aware that just because the Construction office or zoning off or I'm sorry construction AB building office said it was okay never thought the level of it can't deviate from from the zoning board approval um my client will also testify in his humble opinion that the building as it is is very nice very aesthetically pleasing and um there appear to be uh neighbors who support what what is there now and the only reason I say that is because during the initial underlying a hearing there was an objector um or someone who expressed concern and um we think that person is on board but I'm also um uh will say that I think at one point my client had had a a sign up a temporary sign up that advertised the or said who the architect was who the Builder was who the attorney was and I actually got a phone call a random phone call from someone saying hey this was a nice project but my client will also talk about um enhanced uh or sophisticated storm water management uh uh for this site and we have our engineer to testify to that too and I also um will say that uh and I am getting to the antr I promise but I also will say that uh the changes that were made were not because they were quicker or easier or cheaper um it was actually quite quite the opposite and um we also submit and hopefully that you will find that the deviations though deviations do not violate or compromise the underlying spirit and intent of of the board's initial approval so again that was um regardless of the outcome tonight uh my client wanted to make it abundantly clear that there was never an intent act or intentional desire to manipulate or deceive the system that's not who my clients are and I just wanted to ex ex um emphasize that point uh my clients are remorseful and you're going to hear that about the situation and they have insisted that all their potential Witnesses come here tonight we have obviously the owner we have the Builder the architect the engineer myself hopefully I'm not going to need all that testimony but I I have them to testify or answer questions if that is the need uh this entire project has been a labor of love for the applicants and I was fortunate to have represented the the clients in connection with their acquisition of the land their zoning board approval and hopefully hopefully this modified approval and for those veteran members who are here who were here back in 2022 you'll recall that prior to our application uh a prior owner had submitted an application for a two family home on the site which was denied once or twice my client thereafter signed a contract um by the way without a zoning contingency much to my sh grin uh my client bought the property proceeded to obtain the zoning board approval and the building is underway so to wrap it up we come here and and I'm uh sincerely respectfully conscientiously remorsefully proudly hopeful hopefully and anxiously and all I ask is that you all as you always do and always have as I whenever I've been in involved is that you look at this modified proposal open-mindedly and you listen to the applicant's testimony as to how and why those deviations were created and and what those deviations are and hopefully you're going to find that hopefully that uh after all was said and done the modified proposal uh had it been initially submitted you may have approved it or that the benefits of these deviations and the reasons for them justify or the benefits outweigh any detriments Associated there with um again we don't hope I mean we hope that you find that this does not compromise the spirit and intent of the prior approval so this situation has undoubtedly uh God bless you caused my clients a lot of heartache and time and money and inconvenience and pain and we get that that that's on us that's not the city that's you build uh in accordance with the approved plans you don't have this um this is a consequence of the dev ations but we are here and um I'm sorry for that somewhat obnoxious statement but I just importantly wanted to give the general analysis of of of what we're going to uh be doing so Mr chair my intent is to have the applicant testify regarding those changes and why and then I have an engineer here uh to testify as to some storm water management issues and then that may be all we need maybe not we obviously Reserve our right and if you have any questions um we have the other Witnesses here but again thank you for giving me the time on that and with that I'd like to call James dun that was very eloquent Mr Kennedy um you have a huge mountain de climb yes and and and we recognized that and that's why I wanted to to put that thing together because we don't come here lightly unfortunately put you in a terrible seat it it it is an unfortunate uh situation and I I I think if you hear some of the things again there's no excuse for the deviations we can't go backwards we can only move forward but I think you will at least find uh sincerity on on our part Mr Kenny I will just add I will continue to beat you up uh any further but to use your words from the last time we were here in July of 2022 you said quote in the spirit of good faith end quote as our chairman said you you've got a large yes large heill to overcome tonight so and and I appreciate that sir and I and I don't disagree with that and I think we will prove to you good faith and again we apologize but there are some compelling circumstances again textbook case get approval beforehand that was not done but I I can't move back but I will so you're here looking for forgiveness correct well with with forgiveness and but also for the justification and and with the reasons why we we just we did not my clients did not necessarily know that there was deviations that that needed vo board board approval and I think we spent two and a half hours first hearing and you know what I'm never going to get the next two and a half hours of my life back because I rewatched that video so that I was well vered for T all right well first and we covered a lot of things very thoroughly as you always do and I don't take tonight lightly and and I'm not beating up on you AG it's for your applicants it's for the Builder it's for whomever yes this is not about you Mr Kennedy absolutely you're you're a gentleman you're FL we we deal with you a lot but I'm I'm not by any means and I understand that and I also recognize the volunteer nature of your time and I also recognize uh again very eloquent but please sa okay but but I but I I do I do recognize so you have to tell us okay thank you um can I call James dun please James come on up you have that you want to uh any exhibits that you want to we we do have uh some things that he'll go and mark them along as we go I don't know they've already been submitted so do we still need to these part of the package I okay these were in the packet that we had dropped off those were were they not in the digital files they were just Dro off they were they were part no they were paper right are they part of the packet we received they part we thought they were I don't were okay so it wasn't in the digital packet it's in the paper packets just like the last one y I don't need all this all right so so it wasn't post it's the first application it wasn't posted it would not have been included in that no we would not have okay so uh do you want to mark this now or do you want to and and then you're going to talk about it I know we have a bunch of copies I'll refer to you okay so what this is just a series of pictures of the property and and surrounding properties correct correct all right um A1 A1 yeah photo packet yes how many photos do we have p and there's a portion of a a site plan in there [Music] [Applause] 3 uh 27 and it does include the temporary certificate of occupancy so I want to call photo pack Mis okay I believe it's part of our are we sharing this or I'll okay thank you all right so Mr dun they're going to swear you in Mr D you swear affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and not the truth I do and while we're swearing you in Jason you swear that the testimony you'll provide this evening will'll do the TRU the whole truth nothing but the truth and if you could just state your name and spell it for the record uh sure James dun du NN all right so Mr D just procedurally let let let's start a couple of things uh um why don't you just say uh your your profession and your your your experience before we get into the me of the testimony um I'm uh an electrical engineer by education have a Bachelor of Science degree in electrical engineering and for the past 30 years I have been the Executive Vice President at warer Electric Supply headquartered in Titan Falls okay and you're the owner of the property correct correct and roughly how long have you owned that property uh January of 2022 and obviously you were here for the initial part of my presentation uh you and your wife previously obtained zoning board adjustment approval to construct a single family home correct and construction is underway and substantially complete correct okay and for the record why don't you just describe uh this property the corner nature of it and and some of the surrounding properties uh the properties is on the corner of 6on web um I have obviously one neighbor on one side and another neighbor on the other across the street is an apartment complex uh mainly the parking lot for an apartment complex and just for the record we'll have questions on this later on but you heard my introduction and you heard obviously some uh concern amongst board members are you I mean I said you're sorry why don't you explain explain it as well well I think as Kevin said you know we had a lot of meetings with the builder a lot of meetings with the code officers um in Asbury and we honestly did not know where the line was as far as you know when when or when we did not need um variances um you know when I talked to the Builder and and and my Builder by the way was excellent very very detail oriented guy I know he's here now but I would say it even if he wasn't uh did not ask me for a single change order for the entire project um but was super detail oriented and I was at the house almost every single day and I heard quite a few comments from our subs that would say well you know I think they'll allow us to do that and and I think the code officer will approve it and he would stop in their tracks and say we're not moving forward until we get them to tell us they're going to approve it um and the City of Aur Park was phenomenal uh always answered the phone whether it was the plumbing inspector electrical inspector mechanical framing um always answer the phone always willing to come to the job site answer questions keep the job on track but my Builder and way shape or form would ever move forward if he thought uh that there was a potential uh for a variance that might have been needed or that we were doing something that might be a code violation um and he explained that to me in the very beginning he said I'm not going to rush through this we're going to do it right and we're going to do it right the first time and um and he said to me don't ever ask me to add anything from this point forward he goes because you can't add he goes we might have to take away but you can't add so I apologize cuz that's a a misunderstanding on my part I I do apologize for your time um but there certainly was Zero intent in fact we did take quite a bit interrupt you for a second sure um you had a copy of the resolution correct absolutely you read it correct absolutely you agreed to it correct absolutely so where is the discrepancy well if if we can address some of that if if you could he's saying that he's an intelligent man obviously very much I I don't understand that what was unclear in the resolution Mr dun nothing was actually unclear um you know when we first when we first started framing the house for instance now you didn't answer the question well nothing was unclear noide a copy of the resolution to the people on the ground uh uh yes absolutely my Builder was here the night we got approved so we all had it so your Builder so your Builder had a copy of resolution correct you just testified that your Builder told you that he would that he's so reputable that he would not do anything to go against the variance or or or anything or to cause another variance corre correct was done multiple times again the the the misunderstanding was whether it was just a design change or something that required a new variant so that is let's okay let's get specific I think we're past apologies and and all that specifics so you have the size of a hot tub I'm just going to jump ahead okay the size of a hot tub hot tub substantially larger than what had been approved you have the Juliet porches larger than what was approved none of privac were you know that there was a lot of discussion when you came here the first time about those things and those were very um carefully um and there was nothing unclear about that yeah no I'm not I'm not arguing that at all the the hot tub if you would like me to address that I just want to make the point yeah I'll be happy to at all you keep you were speaking and and your lawyers been speaking to us as if they just these are just incidental things that happened along the way and who would have thought except that we spent hours here pouring over these details that were really that you could tell were really significant to this board and that you agreed to but not only to this board because they came here originally for a variant yes or several ex yes sever or design a ex so we wanted to make sure that in our application and hearing we covered details M so the oops incidental this I the list here in Donna's well-written report is I think 14 points or more long so some somebody made a decision to change you're you're telling us that it wasn't your Builder because your Builder's reputable and he would never do anything to go against the variant so are are you telling us tonight that that you consciously made the decision to make these changes no a lot of it was driven by code Mr chairman if the size of a hot tub and the size of the Juliet porches is not by right let's let's just I did not say all of it I agree it's not all of it a majority of it was was dictated by code nor is the elimination of Windows right right or transoms right is trans but but I can I can tell you so none of that was unclear right you made those choices correct somebody made those choices you're the owner right you made those choices correct yeah so you knew you were violating the resolution no I I would need to explain copy of the resolution I I absolutely do M Mr chairman and I don't want to cut and I'm not would not we not be authorized to cut you off but what I would like is I understand the frustration if he could go through the changes I don't see the point I don't think we need to hear the excuses well but some of them are to hear the resolutions but okay but I but I and and that that's a fair point however what I would say is when we get approval which is awesome that we got the approval the Construction office has to approve things and some not all some of the things are construction code that it would not be code compliant to build Don do you have a question I have a question wait have they been sworn in D if I can just interrupt you one minute so Mr Kenny so what you're telling us is that the code officials told told you or told the Builder told your owner to increase the size of the Juliet balconies to buy a bigger hot tub and to change the screening is that that to eliminate Windows no if I could otherwise it's yeah one window was eliminated by By Request of a code official the window ended up in a full a full-size window ended up in a bathtub and he said absolutely not that's a that's a hazard and windows are waterproof from the outside not the inside if somebody loses their footing and they can fall through the window he he asked us to eliminate the window in the um in the bathroom did you even think that you should ask those questions to someone else first honestly I did not I mean the code official told us we had to eliminate so that's my that's my I am an electrical engineer yes so you understand that you've been granted variances right yes and you just violated those variances again when your when the code official tells you that you can't put the window in the bathroom I I just find your your argument very incredible and let's again an argument that you might have for that window has no bearing whatsoever and the size of your hot tub the size of those Juliet windows and the transoms over um or the privacy screen right so but here here's the only thing I'm sorry no so the question your own credibility by continuing to make these statements about things that you had choice about there is no City official that was going to tell you to put in a bigger hot tub or build a a wider porch condition 14 of the resolution stipulates the Juliet Balcony shall be no larger than 4x4 and the plan shall be changed accordingly and the reason for that so when you make the choice to change the size of the Juliet balcony and you don't know who to ask if that's okay the where is the line where is the line between what would get me a variance and what I don't need a variance for is right there in your resolution so changing the Julia balcony size is very black and white clearcut choice not seek out again sorry the building department has no jurisdiction over that you should have gone right to the zoning office nobody should have bringed out anything or at least asked your attorney right and the reason why we specifically said 4x4 your attorney would would have given you the direction and I will advise the board that I had to do multiple versions of resolution compliance to ensure that the architectural plans correctly represented the Juliet balconies there was push back right and it was it was so that there was no seating and do you know you submitted in your application you submitted a picture of the juliia back balcony with a chair on it that that didn't fit you couldn't even put your legs on wasn't supposed Juliet Balcony is just supposed to give you view Breeze maybe a step out right possibly can I can I can I not seating not a table not a chair Mr chairman I reason we Ed Juliet Sorry no no I I didn't mean to cut you up ma'am excuse me did you want a bigger balcony uh no it was not about bigger balcony in fact you want a big do you want a bigger hot tub the hot tub was a literally a no answer my question no I did not want it no but you did it anyway I was supply chain I could not get the the tub that was approved that's not our concern your chain issues are not concern I totally understand that but at the 11th Hour where the crane was going to be there I could not get the 8 by 12 I could get the 8 by 15 it's it is speak to your attorney I honestly did not know that was something that would require a variance going from 8x12 to 8 by15 it is no higher than it was on the original plan but do you honestly think that we go through the effort of the discussions about details and make sure that these resolutions are written accurately and and carefully to reflect what we've AG read that after hours of um testimony and deliberation that they don't mean anything no it's not the case at all well or they optional no I I would I would love to just have a chance to to say I'll address the balconies if I can hold on Mr chairman I understand I I think Mr Kennedy what we're coming to is we need a remediation right but I would respectfully ask for some Indulgence to just let him explain some of the real life issues and again whether or not that's acceptable to you but some of the real life construction code and building code issues I would just like to say that for the record and and then we can come back to to the you can do that but I think you're I will say your application is clear in what you thought you could do or the reasons why you you did they did and um but they're not you know just to some hope the only thing that I'm willing to move on is the artificial turf I have it it's porous that's standard how they install it um that's about the only thing I like in your application can would it be permissible just for record keeping purposes so I can and we can say it to just say some of what the construction code officials and not officials construction code building code issues were that would prevent the building of what we were ini shown the resolution agreed but you're trying to play see what you're trying to do and I'm not really a technical technical technical person but I'm great on common sense you're playing one against the other you're playing one you're going like this but you did this okay you're playing one city agency against another I heard no don't open your mouth I heard you say that Mr Dunn that it was a they did have the hot tub that you wanted that's why you put the other hot tub in am I correct sir that is correct I took a floor I took a floor model no no could you have waited no why well according to the Builder the the crane was scheduled and they had other things that had to go on that crane could only go on that property at a certain point and so the crane was scheduled he asked me for delivery of the hot tub you couldn't bring the crane back again it would have been a major delay uh I can't really I can't really talk to that but so again inconvenience on yourselves versus compliance with the resolution it was honestly and again I can apologize all I can I did I didn't know that taking the floor model apologies Mr that's the last thing we want to hear from you is any further apologies okay and the other thing I just want to put out and if if I misled the board I apologize uh please no more apolog but no there was no intention in terms of uh to say that the building official said yes the constru we know the zoning board controls the zoning but that that's um if I could just for the record have him explain each of the I know you you referenced 14 or uh 14 points in in Donna's letter I would just like to have him explain it and then if it if it doesn't move you it doesn't move you um and then we'll we'll focus on the remediation uh plan and what we have to do to try to get this thing the ship wred but I just would for a record keeping purposes like to explain the situation we'll be brief that's that's like trying to explain to a cop after I ran 45 and the 25 let me explain to you why I did 45 so so Jim why don't you through briefly and concisely as possible Mr Dunn understood so why don't you go through some of the of of the items one by one one those 14 items okay um first off I don't know if the the board is aware that uh my home had to be built to 5A construction standards with a 1H hour fire rating um because of the full height ceiling on the third floor I was given the option of putting a full-size sprinkler system in my house or to go to double sheet rock throughout the entire home um with fire rated plywood on the outside of my house which I took that option um instead of putting the um uh the sprinkler system in by putting in a 5/8 double sheetrock throughout the home that drastically changed a lot of things inside the house like when you mentioned the transom that could not go over the door it couldn't go there anymore because the ceiling Heights changed because now I have double 5/8 sheetrock on my ceilings double five 5/8 sheetrock on all my walls that wasn't something that we ever discussed that wasn't something I knew but the building inspector said because you have a full height on your third floor you have no options those are your two options I did not know that would have required us to go back to the to the board and explain that um I don't mean to interrupt you but you did have another option is not to put a full third floor it's not full the board what the board approved is you're saying that that the building code officer told you you had to do all this extra stuff because you had the whole third floor the third the house was option was is that you could have reduced that correct the house was framed at that point when he came up and said now that your house is framed but it's still an option you're say two options yeah there's there's always options yeah but he he gave me two options he said give me double 58 throughout the house in one hour on all penetrations or put a full sizee sprinkler system in and that did drastically change the inside of the house and shifted a lot of things around I could not put a transm over my door because now my ceiling had shifted down a little bit done wouldn't your Builder know that when your Builder know that using double 58 would change the size of rooms and ceilings and and possibly be able to redirect you to what should be done versus causing a domino effect of changes well we talked about it quite a bit and he he did not recommend that I do the sprinkler system because an interior sprinkler system would have to be maintained it have to be a fire pump so we did talk about that and he said Jim it's going to cause you a lot of money cause you a lot of pain but at the end of the day I think your best option is to put the double 5/8 sheetrock in uh change the lighting plan because I couldn't use Wafers anymore I had to use high hats with high hat covers on them so it just caused a lot of lot of money a lot of pain but at the end of the day that was his recommendation just to go with the 5/8 sheet rock throughout and again I am in you know 20123 in supply chain and the prices that go to double sheetrock and fire rated plywood but it was what it was we had to do it and it made the uh the plumbing a lot more challenging the HC duck work a lot more challenging the electrical a lot more challenging but it was what it was when the building inspector came through and says those are your two options either put a sprinkler system in or double the sheet rock should your shouldn't your architect have known it as well to to go along with what my other board member said is that why didn't your Builder know this again you said your Builder is extremely competent right I'm assuming your architect's extremely competent he's been vetted as a as an expert in front of the board shouldn't he have known that when he was drawing up the plans initially when you initially came here for two and a half hours in front of this board in 2022 I I can tell you that we we were we were all surprised when he came in and said it's 5A construction 1 hour fire rated so I can only I mean I'm not I can only say we were all surprised and did you have a conversation with your architect as well as to the deficiencies in his work because of this um again I I didn't point fingers and point blame I just agre you you you're you're pointing fingers at at somebody over in town hall pretty easily tonight though no I'm not putting fingers at anybody it's just it was 5A construction one hour fire rated so we did what they were told we were told to do well Jim if if I could why don't you talk about the balconies um because as I recall there was extensive testimony about the size of the balconies and that they were to be true Juliet balconies no as call no massive parties I think we said Furniture I want to correct you it were not true Juliet Balcony a true Juliet Balcony has no place to stand right he was given four by fo depth he was have some room out there raing against a wind clearly not not a lot of room but Jim wanted to talk about the the the size of the two balconies at the time the house was being framed uh the framer first brought up a concern that um you could not open up a storm door a 3ft wide door if you only had six inches on each side they said no person can physically stand on either side to open that door um after a lot of discussions with the Builder and even like mapping it out and drawing it out um the framer said the minimum it can be is 6 in wide um to get a normalized person to be able to stand to the side of the door that would be 18 in on each side of the door instead of the 6 in um we knew that we were we were approved for 4x4 uh we knew we had 16 square ft in our head in our head and we said well if we have to go wider we went much shallower the depth of our Juliet porches stands at 34 in not 48 in so what the Builder said is hey you can't you can't add and that's we're always trying to keep the spirit in we are not um 48 in wide we did not go that deep we we reduced it down to 2 10 in of width and that's why I showed a picture of the chair on there the chair touches the back of the door and the front of the porch you can't physically sit there it was a variance situation you were given a stipulation for a dimension why did you choose an alternate dimension for the item that required a variance right rather than seeking call his owning office is this okay right for all the times you said that you spoke to people in the city and you were always talking to everybody and they were always responsive would you ask for things that again I I don't I didn't know that we would need to especially when we were taking away we were making did you just said you understood that it was a 4x4 requir which which is what we were trying to stay within the 16 square ft but that wasn't what we said we didn't say 4x4 or stay within 16 sare ft we said 4x4 but I I made the point just to say that we w't trying to just do something and get away with it we took something away we did the porch was allowed to be 48 in deep and the critical dimension in our mind was the one that was going out towards the street to 48 in we reduced that down to 2' 10 in the decision maker this board and that was wrong correct we we we we know that now for sure so who decided who told you that you had to put a storm door on I was just highly recommended because the web stre who the architect and the Builder uh because web stre AR sh is shaking his head behind you so I don't know if it was the architect well at the end at the end of the day I I did talk to Mike saves about it and Chris CA is also back there my Builder the web Street juliia porch has face du East right and so that that would be if a hurricane came that way everything would come out of the East the doors there were glass no absolutely UND that back I understood that are these doors installed uh do on there we can't get the right ones in still whatever we got the wrong size in we got the wrong color in then we got the uh they were left hand right hand the wrong way and so we're still waiting for the storm doors to come we did get a we we did get storm doors in that we were able to demonstrate that you could you could not have been able to do it but they were the wrong color so your architect designed the plans without storm doors and those were the plans that we looked at correct okay thank you and Jim just for the record uh not critical but the the one balcony is no closer to the street than what was approved I think that's what we were saying both well both are 2 Fe 10 in interior Dimension instead of 4T just for the record um you know from good and bad what is the uh square footage of the one balcony well the one is exactly 16 square ft and and the other one is 17 sare ft 17 sare ft Kenny I don't mean to interrupt you but but this square the square footage is is relevant to us as as as my fellow board member said we we were spec we didn't say 4x4 or 116 ft we specifically said 4x4 so so to have your applicant give testimony as to the square footage is is relevant to to any argument that well I just wanted to be upfront and say that one of them is 17 Square F feet so but by making that argument you're also you're also saying that you're applicant to to Donna to our professional is that your applicant was the decision maker in this which which again go agree but I I just wanted to make the record straight that that that the one is larger than 17 and the record will also show that your your applicant was the decision maker over this board agreed two and a half hours of testimony in July 22 Jim what what what's the next um element you want to talk about fences um well the next one's the impervious coverage do you not want you want to talk about that one talk about it uh I mean I'm not the I'm not the expert but at the end of the day we um we I don't know that I mean I know we have a storm water management system in place every leader uh goes into the ground and from there it goes into a um a basin underneath my G uh my driveway an 11 by 20 x 2 and 1/2 ft which is on the plan um so every drop of water that hits the roof of my house um obviously gets drained into that well that's underneath my driveway um there is Stone on the back on the western side of my house uh because that's a very skinny P actually both sides West and East are very skinny um and the we just we just use Stone instead of planting grass there for for drainage reasons um and the landscape beds are Stone which cost more than mulch but again drains better than mulch so I I'm not sure if we do or don't need um if we have an impervious coverage problem there or not so why don't you talk about what so there was a storm mortar that was approved why don't you talk about what has changed now so so we know exactly what the differences are as opposed to how how it sits now and what we approved in 2022 on the storm water system nothing all the down spouts go into a pipe that go under the ground on both the east side and the west side of the house and they feed into a basin underneath my driveway and that's all that's all been built according to the plans that we approved correct I think the issue is with the imperious coverage correct right so what is the impervious coverage at this point we may need the engineer testimony before we can fully understand more important is what was the reason for changing from having Turf and the and the planting beds that were or the plan plot plan and the decision to change from natural vegetation to Stone and and artificial turf because the plot was always skinny I mean that it didn't change so it was was a maintenance concern a cost concern well no we spent more we spent more to put Stone in the the landscape beds than we did we would have spent to put mulch in there and we would have spent a lot less to put we haven't by the way we have not turfed the property um you know so that has not been done yet and obviously we'd spent a lot less money to put grass seed down than we would Turf uh so what was the the reason for not doing that for not doing what for not just going with regular tur regular regular reg well we well first off we missed the planning season so um no I know but we I haven't done anything it's dirt right now so again so why the why the choice and that hasn't been done completed yet but why why is your uh are you looking to change to the oh why am I looking to put Turf is that the question oh okay so it's not our primary residence first off we do live in Freehold um born and raised in Freehold we have no plans to make Asbury or primary residents as I testified before under oath and I'll testify again now we will not rent the property out sorry me too it isant on July 22nd 2022 you had testimony that this was going to be your retirement home well a retirement home right so right now it's not our primary residence I still gainfully employed um sometime in the future possibly but right now my full-time residence is in Freehold but again we're talking about changes what the the thoughts in your mind then are no different your lifestyle whatever your life plans were no different then than your thoughts are now correct and you agreed to certain things and now you want it changed and again you you're not giving us compelling reasons for to approve these changes well the reasons for the turf would be um I only have a very very small patch of grass I think it would be 720 square feet which is basically the front of my house um and when I first bought the property I couldn't find a landscaper that would cut that lawn because he said it wasn't worth him taking a mower off the truck and zipping around so for maintenance purposes the fact that I am not a full-time resident there now hopefully I will be in the future um it's a very high dog traffic area I love animals I love pets uh but a very high dog traffic area so I think that would be very tough to keep the grass green um it's it does drain very well there is going to be the the grass on top of stone on top of my K4 soil Mr John I want to cut you off how how how long does it take you to drive drive from your house and Freehold to your house here now about 20 to 25 minutes 20 minutes so so you're telling us that you can't drive 20 minutes in the height of the growing season to cut your own no I'm I'm not saying I I couldn't do it I just I'm not saying that at all um I don't I can't I can't even put up a lawn mower basically in the shed that I have a 4X 12 shed I think but again I can I can cut my own I you know I can do that that's not our concern Mr dun I I need you to go on sure and then just um in terms of the turf I think you had a sample of the turf here oh I do I have it behind me why don't you just at least since we're on that kind I now do you want me to um move this in Jeff or I don't care one's going to use yes then the one that I have the test reports for all right well why don't you just ident ify what it is and are these the same yeah they're the same specific name of it yeah Amai me AI CRA c r a z e yeah it does shed do you want to mark that as A2 yes Mr chairman should I present it to you or you don't please sure we'll take a look thank you and then Mr chairman we will have our engineer talk about impervious coverage calculations and per perious versus impervious I understand momentarily uh Jim I know there's a change on the on the shed correct uh correct um talk about why you you're not trees since we're talking about grass and things that grow the trees the shade trees the shade trees required to put in right I I I'm I'm I have to put in three I think um Street trees as they were called I have a I have a plan that was submitted as part of my packet that shows that you're actually according to our board professional your plans do not show that right yeah in the in the submitted packets we we do have I thought one of your requests was to remove them REM remove remove of the treats no we have we have we have Street trees in there it's in the application no Mr sa you're not under oath but just for the record you have no problem with putting the the three Street trees in in accordance with the prior approval no no that in fact that yeah that plan was um submitted as part of my packet there's three Street trees and whatever the other detail is on there for the plants I'm not I I can't speak to it and it'll be in concert with the environmental shet tree commission here in town yes they have to approve it sure it can't be a cherry tree or they will absolutely are you aware you also built in the right way as well right um I'm sorry just let's stick let's stick to the order that the applicant wants to do instead of jumping around so that well I since the right away has something to do with the street trees right it does but I I don't know if that's the order of Donald's letter I think I think it sounds like you're going through the order of I I was yes so it's easier for me to resol all right please proceed Mr dun uh I think there's the next one 3.1 uh elimination of the porch railing and Lou a surrounding 3-ft metal fence and what you to say about that uh well the the porch ends very close to the sidewalk on um on web and without any kind of physical barrier there a lot of people um were using it just kind of as a seating area as they were passing by in fact I have a letter from one of my neighbors saying he constantly sees people sitting there on my porch uh and if I were to put a railing in between the porches only um 4 feet uh 3 in deep 4 feet 3 in deep so to put a railing in between the columns it would almost be impossible to put any furniture on that porch um you wouldn't physically be able to walk around it at 4' 3 in so we decided to uh not do that and instead we already had a um permission to put a fence up we just extended the fence instead of putting a railing um on the porch in order to put furniture on the porch if we want to sit there okay what's next wait I'm sorry I'm also making notes about the turf uh let me just uh quickly go back um so you testified that you changed the fence along the street frontages to enclose your yards because people are basically trespassing correct sitting on they're sitting on the porch there's no physical barrier and the porch ends very close to um the sidewalk we didn't put up any Gates though we didn't want it to be it looked like a a prison wall we have no Gates on on the uh three- foot high fence Donna do we originally approved a fence there was a picket not this fence in there was a pick fence there was gate across the driveway correct I I did not put the gate across the driveway front is that cor yeah okay um I'm sorry so I was also approved to put my fence right on the property line um as part of that the fence uh installer said he wanted to set it back about 3 in he was nervous about um installation error and have it going over the property line so that was one of the notes that was made um in this report that the fence was supposed to be on the property line however it's set back 2 or three inches off the property line and that was just a decision made by Carl fence that he didn't want to have to come back and rip it out because his installer veered off off course a little bit so we're actually set back two or three inches off the property line but you said you extended correct it was supposed to go supposed to end right past the driveway on web and we extended it um past that so but set back from the line requires it to be set back one foot mhm but we we had a variance to put the fence on the property line and who gave you that variance yeah where you the VAR that's on the plans that was on the original plans it was on the approved plans it was on the approved plans but not to go all not to go all the way down correct right right correct the dri so so you didn't have approval to put this fence all the way down to to the front of your yard on the property line or three even three inches correct property line correct you chose to do that on your own I need to better understand this you originally got approval for a fence along the interior property line on the side and the interior property line on the rear it came across the driveway on web right on web but then didn't it die into the side of the house no just I thought it was supposed to stop right after the driveway it wasn't supposed to run down the side yard side of the street and so uh um hang on I'm I'm trying to pull up the uh original layout that shows the fence um because again it's you know it's kind of a distinction if you only had 20 ft of fencing that most of which was a gate set basically at the property line I think that's something the board and I don't want to put words in your mouth but you know it's different than I'm going to put [Music] that's on the entire property on the property line that's a different type of extent for the board to consider and what you're doing now definitely should not be within 3 Ines of the property line it should be one foot back from the property line accordance to the code um the stuff on the interior can be on the property Lan that is the code for interior fencing stuff that's on the on the street side has to be set back on foot so again I have a moment to just look at the old plan I think that was because where was in relationship to the the side on web and how it died into the back of the building it was not a concern to be whether it was on the property line but this is you know 30 ft and 100 ft of on the property line fencing right that is a that is a distinction it is different from your original approval and I think that would be a new level of that's what I thought that does that make sense that's why I asked you did we have a fence on the that so yeah so I was trying to check two things since they're looking at the pl I'm going to make a motion to take a five minute recess so that people can use the F facilities thank you I'll second all in favor okay um I will now take roll call Wendy Glassman here Daniel Harris here Russell Lewis Here Joe Potter here Natalie pasini here Vice chair Scully here chairman avalone here please proceed Mr Kenedy Mr dun uh Donna did I cut you off so uh we were just looking at the um so so these are the resolution compliance plans that were approved and signed by Jason as well as uh the board chair and board secretary in Mr uh in my hands the fence that was approved was only basically running along the line of the house line there was no fence approved at the front of web along the street line it's not along the street line according to the plan on web on web it's it's it's along the home line so it's set I don't know how many feet this is I don't have a scale but it's it's several several feet off of it's to the house is where where that here's the question I have is and this is to the applicant if you don't mind are you willing to take the fence that you have and put it at the one foot line I think that would be right on against the porch you didn't answer my question are you will to do it um I probably would think aesthetically it would just be better to eliminate it it would be right up along the porch so I don't I just think it would be better if you if you want to eliminate it and I do I do want to say that again I I know it's not the right thing but I did go and get my permit amended with the town you know showing them that I'm now doing uh more fence and so your your permit amended well I had I had to get my fence permit right okay you have to get a fence permit right but you always have to get a fence permit right but you didn't dis that has nothing to do with what you did no but I I showed it where where it is today is where I but they they don't know that you have a resolution stating what you're supposed to do Mr dun all all they did was give you a permit let me let me explain here if if he submitted a fence permit and got a zoning approval for a fence that's separate apart from the jurisdiction that this board has you can put a fence in at any time agre as long as you're in compliance if you're not in compliance obligation is to come before this board unless you make it comply I understand that one foot setback would comply and that's why I asked the question would you it looks looks to us like the um the porch is about 3 foot off the property line which would make the fence about two foot off the porch according to the pl I I I don't I don't scale-wise I'm not sure how far I am off the I just tell it says three foot on your so I would be going back a foot then is what you're saying 9 in if you're if you're at 3 in now don't prin permits go across Michelle's desk and they go before the zoning office it's really yeah I understand but you take your survey you you draw you yourself draw line yeah but it has but it makes a stop in front of Michelle zoning so off I am approved here do you did you bring the um approval the permit approval your revised permit for the fence do you have a copy of that uh I I did not bring a copy of that we can get that I mean a simple solution is two Simple Solutions remove it or comply with the setback there's no problem with the fence it the height of the fence the look of the fence that's not an issue it has to comply with the setback unless you're asking this for to give you relief which I'm not talking for the board now Jim were you saying is is is would that result in a a jagged fence or well there's part the part of the fence at the very south um east corner of the house is approved and on the plan so I'd have one fence at one depth and the rest of the fence at another is that what you're saying cuz I know I have fence approved at the South uh Southeast corner of the property up to the driveway so right so the south side yeah the rear of your property the web side the West Side the web web web I'm sorry the website no there's no there wasn't approval for off fence on the website it ended there's no the only fence on this it ended at the driveway but it ended at the driveway soend the house at the corner rear corner of the house so it so so your your front your front house line along way parallel well that fence was to continue to the rear from the from the corner of the house so basically the parking pad would be enclosed right by the fencing but not the actual driveway correct correct but then there would there is fence on web because it it went up to to the driveway and then I think a little bit past the driveway and then maybe veered into the house not not according to the plans that have resolution compliance approval what's in the South uh what's in the Southeast Corner then there's no fence there between the driveway and the corner of the southeast corner there was um on the south the rear property line the South Line a 6ot Thicket vinyl fence at the rear and side proper and then it dropped down to a 3-foot fence and it made an L towards the driveway and then it stopped right there was a gate on the driveway that I did not put in I don't know that it dropped at the at the corner there's just it terminated it ended it basically ended where that fence was going to go through your drive right but that's at WB that's on WB it is yeah but it's 8 ft from W maybe more it's on yeah it was supposed to go to it supposed to go to the the southwest corner of the house you've got it all the way out by the right way words do you want to I don't know how m is um you're to pull this up the on here yeah see [Music] pretty sure there's the driveway I [Applause] looking at um which one youing at the site plan this is the um yeah the plot grading enir plan the one that sign that's the [Applause] architectural you're looking at this one I'm looking at the actual sign yeah cuz this one actually this one actually says that Ford foot picked vinyl fence align with the house facade facing web so so if you've got to past your house facade on that southwest corner of your house then you've gone too far you've gone beyond what was approved by this board it was supposed to it was supposed to te in not t supposed to match up with the corner of your house not out to the to the the end of your driveway so if you look at this picture right here the side your fence should have come across and it should have touched this corner this southwest corner of your house right you have it out here that wasn't approved in the no yeah I have it I have it me the other way you're just pointing the wrong way right um but there's fence before the driveway right because the gate's not just floating the gate that was proposed as long as long as it's in line with with this edge of the house that's what was approved but you're out to hear and that wasn't approved no but I'm still not understanding because if I bring my fence out to the property line which I was approved to do and then I Veer in towards the driveway that's you you weren't approved to bring it out then but there was a gate in front of the driveway yeah the gate was the gate was in line with with this oh you said the gate was in line with the edge of the house the gate was not out here the gate was in line with this that's what was approved by this sport can you make that larger all right so you see where it says web Street 50 foot right of way at the top yeah just to the right of that that plan says 4ot picket vinyl fence to align with house side facing web Street and it points all the way to where the driveway and the house meet that's where that fence in your plan was proposed to be it wasn't proposed to be right at the RightWay yeah right there yep and this is the tag and that's the line that that tracks that comment so this fence is supposed to come like this right on the west side of the property right so that's what was proposed on the plan now what I'm saying is and I think Donna you're in agreement if you wanted to put the fence that you have there you can do that you just have to comply with the setback which is one foot which is one foot from the property line and you're you said you're only 3 in from the property line approximately no no I think oh oh you're right you're correct yeah I'm three I'm 3 in in at least one foot to be in compliance if you want to have that fence and you can do that hey and it's would be on both web and sixth same situation in sixth the right away on Sixth is only one foot in no no the fence to be offset from the property line but on six right the RightWay is much wider so there's like I don't know 10 or 12T of grass between where his fence would be and the sidewalk on six that's what I want to make sure he understands that it has to come in quite a bit because the RightWay on six this far different than web so to help you in at the corner of the property it says po which point at beginning that's your property line correct running parallel with 6 Avenue that's where your property line is so you have to you would have to come in a foot further in from that point which would be the same 9 in because I'm the same 3 in off of it right right his where his fence is right now on six is 3 in off the proper line it's not old way out in the street right the RightWay is farther up isn't it I think it's about at 25 ft right set back from the sidewalk to the to the property line no but it might be from the Cur but not the side it's not the middle um what I'm saying is isn't the set the setback for 6th Avenue is going to be closer to his porch versus closer to the sidew yes but only s yeah I just I'm trying to understand six for a minute it looks like the property line is about halfway between where the where the sidewalk line is yeah and where the for starts right and his fence would have to be not on that property line right in this in this photo it doesn't look like the fence is in the correct position it's off by 9 in okay that's sorry I was that's okay my uptake is slow it's okay it's a lot you down yeah rip the fence up rip the fence up so I think what the question is is um basically can we comply with the one foot setback uh which makes it N9 inches greater than what it is for both web and six cor with that fence that he has shown on the plane it be the same it' be the same fence be the same just have to rip it up and so Jim is is that something that as a condition if the application were the modified application were be approved that you could you could live with and and agree to yeah I would I would have to do it sure thank you okay what what uh next if going along your uh Donna's memo or or your memo um so the next thing I have listed is the removal of the porch railings which we're classifying as a design exception uh under the Community design regulations um new new homes are supposed to have a front porch and the traditional style with um a kind of a traditional conventional railing style um the original plans showed such a riling I think in my original report we had even picked off the it was RA but it was the other stuff which houses in the neighborhood which properties in the neighborhood had similar features so he's changed the um size of the columns that are being used and taking off the r and uh I'm going to jump ahead here a little bit I it looks like there are some photographs in the packet which might be supporting why why you were doing the change but well there's a there's a picture on the website of of the chairs on web um there's plenty 3 four in the packet you show a bunch of houses that have railings I'm sorry what number 3.4 3.4 hold on so now that was that was support our um no I'm not arguing that there's railings at other houses that was more of um a fenestration demonstration oh okay so then uh we got 3.4 so um pict before so you took the railings off so you would have more it's 3.1 yeah 3.1 if you if you put a railing in between the columns you would have no room to move around any Furniture that's on there you'd have to step off the porch to step back on the porch so that's where we just basically um eliminated that and and put it more of a as a fence than a railing so in the original plan you had a 5ot wide porch and now it's a 3ot wide porch is that correct it's 4' 3 in to the center of the column so it's f it is five it is five but I was just saying it's only 43 if you put a railing in the center of the columns because again we've changed the type of railing system and columns okay Don what was what was the size of the columns that were on the approved plan are these larger now that are installed the so these columns are are bigger yeah um were the original ones Square eight 8 in round cellular PVC column Mr D what are the size of the columns I don't know them to be any different to be honest with you the only thing I know there was a double column on the front um on each side of the walkway going to uh Sixth and the house is just too skinny it's only 21 ft wide on the outside 18 ft wide on the inside it just did not look right to have double columns on that for such a skinny house it was kind of column overload so we eliminated one of the columns on each side of the walkway going up to six I don't know that the columns are any any different than what we're they're round columns I mean I have no idea who installed the columns was it your Builder correct I I didn't I didn't see that note in there so I did not take a measur 12 in columns 12 in and 8 in was approved right so if it was 8 in it would give you and he put the railings down the center it would give you it would give him more room than what he's the same page say page three of three the side so again this is the these are the approved plans that were signed off on maybe it's the four maybe it's page four sideways has to be rotated so do we know why the columns were changed or honestly do not this is honestly the first that I would know that it's not eight and that it's 12 to be you as the owner have no idea why you went from an 8 in to a 12 in I honestly do not oh yeah the two right the yeah right so so your your Construction Group just made a whole sale change without asking you guess we'll have to bring him up that's my Builder I well we we're not done with you Mr Doug so so you're telling me that you had no clue as to what your your your Construction Group did he's not aware of this change I'm not aware of that change with regard to the column col so they made that decision all by themselves again I was not aware I was not aware of the change but you made the decision to take the railings out in between I was involved in that decision yes so you would have to know to some degree why you needed to do that the only reason I did not want to put the railings up there is because I didn't have enough room to work around that any furniture that was on the porch but never once did I say because the column size had changed that's just the honest answer I I did not know I I appreciate that Mr dun but I find it hard to believe this is your home you're paying somebody to construct it to your architectural plans that you paid somebody to developed for you and you're saying you have no clue as to a change that was made on the actual porch on the on the columns I do not there's a lot of moving Parts on this house and I did not know do you find do you understand how it's difficult for us understand that but I also and you you are a very intelligent man to get an electrical engineering degree is not something that is taken lightly in school I appreciate that and I also want to know I want you to know that I was also the chairman of the fre Township parks and rec commission for many years I understand what it means to be under oath speaking at this table and I can honestly tell you there are a lot of moving Parts on this job and I did not know that my comms you could ask me my comms are 8 Ines right now I would have testified expensive for you to purchase a larger column I I it might but like I said started this out with he did not ask me for one single change order on this job not one time so you're just blaming your constru I'm not blaming I just was not in to no about the size of the Comm I'm not pointing blame at anybody I just could not you asked me a direct question if I knew what size the comms were I did not I didn't even know what size honestly that the comms were 8 in versus 12 you were in my see what would you believe Mr dun I would tell you that I'm telling the truth I understand I'm under oath I did not know the size of the columns at my house I did not know that and I did not know today what they are physically on my property I never once took a tape measure around the outside of those columns just to repeat your testimony from earlier I I think you did testify that you did give your Builder a copy of the resolution and a copy of the plans that were approved with that resolution so so he was aware of what was approved and what we we all had copies of the resolution and the resolution compliant drawings okay please proceed what what's next in um on Donna's memo or your memo I have the roof decking screening are you on the same uh yeah again just to clarify because we talked about this earlier it's your intent to actually install the required Street trees yes yeah okay and that um you're not going to propose any encroachments into the right of way of either six or web the current plan shows the extent of the Turf going into the right away so um I'd be will it stays on your property and I'd be willing to spend the money to do it for a uniform look if you don't want me to do it then I'm fine not do permission from the government body do we can't grant that okay who that who would that come from that would be from the city council city council okay so is it your intent to seek uh the easement from the city or would you just revise it so it only goes onto your property again I would I would do it I think aesthetically I would spend the money because I think aesthetically would look better if it's an arduous prop if it's an ous process main problem he's going to exact a fee from you in order to construct those improvements in the RightWay and I think they refer to it as a license agreement as I understand they're not cheap L tell then you're probably convincing me not to do it okay so then um we can now go to actually can I just just for one um Clarity um from what you said earlier with the the street trees just for confirmation it is going to be what the environmental commission says species and all that just for the tominski is the Conta person got it you can reference the mammoth County approved Street tree list that is what the sheade tree commission uses as a proof Street trees oh I'm sorry I said environmental commission I should have said sh tree I guess it's sh tree it is enironment and shade Tre got it we'll do that all right uh Donna I cut you off what was next so then the next thing I have is the um material and design of the roof deck screening because that was a specific condition in the resolution to be a certain type certain color so um please describe what is there now there there's pictures if everybody has it in the packet cuz it's tell so tell tell us what page uh I'm on 33 3.3 3.3 and there's a couple of 33s I think so why don't you just go through and and uh at the is that the first 3.3 I think it is all right just explain what what uh people are looking at so that's the um deck screening on the southern side of the house and the western side of the house um originally proposed was a a wood lattice screening and the building inspector said you know absolutely not he said he didn't want anything that would uh be able to be broken through and he didn't want anything scalable because at first when he said no wood lattice uh we said how about Metal lattice and he said no because you can scale metal lattice so the building inspector uh basically shot down that and said it's a safety concern I don't want anybody standing on the edge of that hot tub falling backwards and I don't want anybody uh standing on the edge of the hot tub and scaling up the wall um and then trying to jump in the pool or falling and going over he also recommended or or asked for a sample of what we might do and I know the Builder supplied that to him and he approved what what the um what was up there right now he said this will be fine because it's not scalable but yet it's see-through because of the way the the slats point away from you you can't put your fingers in it unless you're on the outside of the wall Mr isn't it true though the reason why he told you to change that was because you you put a larger hot tub of 12 person instead of an a person uh no it's a height of the hot tub never changed I thought we we had something that it was it was based on the size and the placement and the placement so one of the conditions approval was reducing the size of the BL deck to 24 ft by 16 ft right um and then provide screening on the Wester and the sides that was going to be lattice and have rooftop plantings I I can understand I actually I also did the monan construction board of appeals so I can understand the testimony when you have a pool a pool compliant fence can't have any type of ability to climb it so it's a similar I I I think what the what the testimony is and what he was told is probably accurate from the construction official so that nobody can climb it if it's if it's um vertical it's notable but if it's horizontal it be and as a condition of his approval he should have taken that information to the zon office to determine options what was approvable by the building we understand that right versus what the board we understand what Mr bman said and what what your say it's a valid point but please move on but wait if I could the slots are still horizontal though right they're not vertical they have a angle to they're not just like flat slats like yeah they're angle they're angled towards you on the inside so you can't there's nothing you can grab horizontal except they're not scal they're not scalable you have mini blinds and you them versus that way correct what is the size can't come out what is the size of the deck is it the the 20 24x 16 that was approved yeah the deck is not the deck is not changed what's changed was the hot Tu correct it's three it's 3 ft longer which had ultimate effect on the fence right no because the height never changed um so it was based off the height of the tub um somebody standing on the tub he said he wanted a minimum of who however many 3 feet above that I think we're at exactly 3' 3 in because he also said that I was approved to put built-in benches on that on that deck and he says you have to be six foot above that if somebody's standing on the bench um so that put me at like 3 feet three inches above the edge of the hot tub and and he said that was fine in your narrative included with your admitted application hold on for a second the long brch okay so uh number I the third floor Recreation deck required a retaining wall around the hot tub which is slightly higher than initially approved as the hot tub wall is 57 in and the building inspector require minimum of 3 ft above the said height um the applicants receive minimum requirement by 2 in the building inspector approved the wall during final inspection likewise set material is not wood lce as set for the plans but rather metal slap wall about scaleability the existing walls are constructed so that they meet the height requirement and subject slots or position so that they cannot be scaled so my question is this remark that the recreation deck required a retaining wall around the hotub which is slightly higher than initially proved what what are we talking about is it the wall is higher or the hot tub is higher no the wall the hot tub is the same height it's always been the same but the building inspector required a higher wall correct he he wanted it to be a minimum of 3 feet for someone standing on the edge of the hot tub and six feet above a bench okay and then whose decision was it to change it from wood to the uh the metal bowy inspector saying he wouldn't approve wood lce uh the next two items in my list um are not um design exceptions or variances or anything it's just changes in the number and style of the windows and some of the decorative elements on on the faes okay uh Jim can you talk about the windows uh well I I mentioned the one window that was eliminated um in the bathtub it was a full height window in the bathtub and the inspector said no way uh so that window is eliminated there was another window eliminated on the second floor on the southern end of the house uh because my electrical panel had to expand in space we had too many Circuit in the panel we had to add a second panel and I was beholden to a 3ot clearance in front on all sides it was the only place that we could put it so it had to go where the window was so that window got eliminated oh um have the pl and again with the with the fire rated code and some ceilings dropped some one of the windows ended up uh in a in a landing of the stairs and again the inspector said no way somebody trips going down the stairs hits the landing they can run out they can roll out through the window so he said that window has to be eliminated um can you tell so the board can see these are the plans again were approved can you tell us which why don't you go up there and point Jim as to which on that side of the H on this this is the webs side of the house the only window the only windows that got illuminated here watch your foot Jim I got you um I believe I believe this this one got eliminated this one and this one and the two bigger ones got pushed out so the three smaller ones got eliminated oh okay yeah so uh this window this window and this window got eliminated and the other the two bigger Windows got pushed out to the side and I understand that was due to again this is not my area of expertise but um the the res check energy code uh that the windows have a direct Factor on that there were too many windows uh to properly heat or cool the space so they recommended that we eliminate those three because there were just too many windows um in that one area right there I'm not an expert on res check energy code but um all I was told is the windows are a big factor we had to eliminate some windows and what about uh window go on the other elevation we we'll bring that we'll put we bring that up there was um the one on the Sixth Avenue side hold on one second our friend we'll get back so how many windows were eliminated Mr dun on the website three three yeah in total though of the whole structure uh webs side was three on the southern side one um on the backside if we could go to the backside and show there were two eliminated there and then one on the 6 Avenue side which ended up in a so you know that's a significant change in your plans overall right for the reasons I've outlined yes the um the well there you are on the um the rear elevation South the window on the left hand side got eliminated just point it out for so everyone's clear this is in my electrical closet my electrical closet is on the second floor that window got eliminated because I needed to have an extra panel put in uh this door by the way as it's written here is a two panel door it was framed out to be that gas company put the gas meter right here even though I asked the gas company if they can put at the rear of the house when I came one day or whatever the gas company put the gas meter right there there's a picture of it um in my packet so even though that was framed out and purchased I had to reframe it out because the gas company dropped the gas right there and they said there was no argument with them they said they needed a direct shot from the street in and they said they needed to be there's electrical equipment here and they need to be 10 ft from this and x amount of feet from this so there's the only place they could put it so that's not a single door because the gas company put the right there there's a there's a picture of that now do we need the other elevation brought up to show which Windows have been eliminated you want well here's the rear here's the side right here so this is the uh this is the western side so this window here got eliminated uh honestly to be a friendly neighbor I have a huge light fixture in that window and they house that's on my West is very close the property here is very thin uh there's a huge light fixture in that window and it's there's a window directly across from it so I eliminated that window just to kind of be a friendly neighbor because that's a big big light fixure with a lot of lumens to it and so once we eliminated that we we looked and said that that might be a little odd that one there was no real reason except for Aesthetics to take and then if you go to the I guess the only one we have left is the Sixth Avenue yeah that this is the window here that ended up with the stair L the stairs go up right here it ended up like right in the middle of the stair Landing the inspector S no way because some of falls down the stairs they fall out the window so that but I still do think I have a ton of fetish in this house if you look at the pictures I have a ton of Windows um so I don't think I'll light on that and really only one window was eliminated for no reason and that would be the one on the western side of the house down below that was the only one I could have kept but you realize it's not the plan that we yeah yes we saw Yes ABS that we agreed with and that we liked Absolut and we approved absolutely who was your project manager while you were not on site uh Jack D construction Chris C was my Builder who I know I I know all this aside thrilled with him he didn't an amazing job and a very very tight constraint skinny house 21 fet wide 18 ft wide on the inside Dimension sir and I don't think he did a great job it's a beautiful house it doesn't follow the resolution or the architectural plans that were approved can I can I still like them I like them yeah he's PR um could any of this been done all of these changes this this these are a lot of changes could any of this been done prior to us getting the giving you a resolution well honestly we we left here and had no idea about 5A uh 1 hour fire rating construction so that's probably the one of the bigger misses here um is that we did not know that so I I don't I don't know I mean to do this all over again that would be the thing if we had known that that a lot of these things would have been changed um you know had we known about the you know the wood lattice would not have been approved and there's just yeah in a perfect world I would say yeah I would love to it I don't want to be here I don't want to waste your time being here um because the house as it is right now in my mind I I'd love that house and and it's not inherently different than what I have today so so again it's I took more away not adding in um and yeah I'd love to have it the 5A construction took my sofits from 2 feet you know which were beautiful on the outside of my house down to one foot because 5A construction says you can only have a maximum of a 12-in sfet going around your house I would love to have that house why were the entrance doors changed excuse me why were the entrance entrance doors changed uh honestly when when I was doing this drawing with Mike Savar in um 2022 the spring of 2022 it it was honestly a complete waste of time to pick a door out because a supply chain I know that's not your problem but to go through the trouble of saying I want that particular door we put doors in as placeholders and the doors that I put in if you could see the drawings are gorgeous doors they're Victorian architecture they're absolutely gorgeous solid wood I if I would have picked if IID have tried to pick that out you know prior I I wouldn't have been able to get it so I basically took what I could get and tried to keep within the the design and spe of the house I just think we put white white pan six white panel doors on there as a placeholder no you actually had I think there was some flash transoms so so and again well the transm was that one transm on six was eliminated because the ceiling height came down with the double 5/8 sheet rock so we had what were the reasons for the some of the design elements that were eliminated um specifically I think Donna could I'm sorry some of the design elements that were eliminated Donna well so for example there's no longer the um Spire above the above the roof the lightning rod on to they take something off the side door I took a of there's trim elements within the um between the second between the third and second floors right in the tower it's no longer a decorated panel it's just a plain panel um but conversely he added corvells in the um on the EES so we didn't have those before um we go to the um yeah the doors um what that the stone is that originally yeah in the front yeah the stone was there was um um Mr D why didn't you come back to us before you did all this again as I initially testified that um we we were we did not know that we needed um to come back to the board unless we were specifically looking for additional variances um which obviously was an error and we apologize for that in the beginning um you know I didn't I did not consult Kevin a lot during the course of the construction of this project um because nowhere did we think you know where we were doing something that we needed additional variances we were obviously in the wrong there and and that's why you know we're here now and that's why we're wasting everybody's time just to to correct you you're here now because you want a CO is that correct Mr dun well yeah that's that that's the point that we're at I do have a TCO and to answer your initial question that was given to me by the construction Department um there's a copy you have no t no I have a TCO correct I have a TCO that expires on why you're here June 15 corre correct I need a CO it's not because you made these changes it's because you can't get a CO correct and Michelle Alonzo Flagg the differences and said we have a problem was was there anything more in Donna's letter or your that you need to talk about those were the specific items requiring Rel were were substantial changes Jim was there anything else we needed to talk about uh I don't I don't think so I mean the the only other thing was that double door on the back of the house which I already explained was because the gas meter ended up there any of this um there would the gas have been put in the other if somebody responsible would have been there would the gas me have been put into the spot where we asked it to be put no it was there my Builder was on site when the gas meter I was not my Builder was and the gas company gave no choice that's where they were putting the gas meter it was non-negotiable on their end and he called me and told me that and I called the woman that I was dealing with and she said Jim they're going to put it where they need to put it you don't have a choice in where they I did Red X where I wanted them to put it she acknowledged that but she said the people on site said it had to go there I I don't want it where it is it's right by my driveway right where you pull in you see it I wanted it in the rear of the house you have documentation stating that they said that oh 100% I can show you the uh emails that were sent showing that red X I put it in the rear of the house they said the gas meter can't the gas line can't bend they want a straight shot from the street with no bends in it any time you bend a gas line you degreg the uh the volume of gas that can flow through it so she said they just a straight shot from the street to the gas meter she said she needed to be 10 ft away from the generator and x amount of feet away from the electrical the automatic transfer switch is mounted on the outside of the house and she had to be a certain distance from there so she said unfortunately Mr dun we can't move it has to be right where it is and Jim I think was there one other change the shed is not as high as you approved um I believe you approved a shed that was uh 16 ft High we only Built a shed shed at 12T high and why is that um it just didn't look right it was too high it didn't look right so um we we just made the shed 12et high it's skinny too it's 4 feet U by 12et I think so it'd be a long thin High shed and there's nothing really you could do with the top half so we kind of during the original hearing you discussed that in order to make sure you was going to compare the setbacks for a shed it was going to have kind of a non-standard dimension right but it was bed whether you should get the variance for the setback or complying Size Shed again I just wanted to State for the record since we're here that that shed is smaller it is smaller um now obviously you know we do have our engineer to testify about storm water management but just before I end up with Mr Dunn I mean obviously we're here and uh the question is how can we resolve this to your satisfaction um well be before we even get close to that Mr Kennedy um I have to see if the board has any more questions for Mr dun sure fair enough right sorry any further questions for the board for Mr Dunn no board professionals any further questions for Mr dun all right I'll open it up to the public does anybody have any questions regarding Mr Dunn's testimony seeing none will oh it do you have a question please step up to the then no okay it's not a question from Mr dun's testimony then we're not accepting any comments at this time uh can I bring up Mr Scotland I I think this is a good place to stop Mr Kennedy only because it's been a very long process right just and I think everyone needs to take five on this and absorb and absorb all the things Mr Dunn has has said to us and give it some time for us to think about don't you agree I would think that that is a perfectly fine solution uh temporary solution to give everyone some distance and some time to think about it sure so knowing that we're going to have to have your applicant come back and your board Prof your professionals as well um I would think about your ways that you could help us as well um we're we're reading between the lines uh very clear clear lines and um I I hope it's clear this time it's very clear um and what what what type of date are you looking for sir uh uh well that that's so the question would be whether there's going to be revisions and need um so let me just explain uh to my client if I may so they're going to ask us for an adjournment uh so we come back U hopefully without new notice so that the board can uh analyze some of the things that we've said and we can analyze some of the things and questions that they have said and uh if there is if there is in the light of day uh mod further modifications that we can make to address some of their concerns maybe there are maybe they're not and the the requirement is that if we are going to submit any type of revised plans and I don't know we are they have to be on file 10 days in advance of the hearing so that's why the board secretary is going to give us some dates and if the on the one hand we want to get uh the thing resolved as quickly as possible obviously on the other hand if there are going to be any revisions that are needed we don't do ourselves any favors to not get it done within 10 days so what what type of dates are you looking at so we just want to advise that the normal policy of the board is revised plans need to be in three weeks prior to the next scheduled meeting so that that eliminates this review and respond okay so may time frame and again only if you're doing you know changes to the plans and I I don't know that we are but we're going to have to talk about that I understand so I think May is probably more appropriate would what would be the May date uh May 14th or May 21st um you guys know if you have any conf just and just out of curiosity is May 14th um horrible question to ask is that the second Tuesday do you know it it is it is there the 7th the 14th the 21st and the 28th of the month I would prefer 21st if we could okay can we do the 21st um my horrible life I live on second Tuesday fourth Tuesday and all those things I I appreciate that Mr Kennedy uh so if anyone everyone's amendable to May 21st is it May 21st we have May 21st so we have the second and third Tuesday of May are you sure it's the 21st May 21st is Tuesday wouldn't it be the we made the adjustment Memorial Day so we we moved from Memorial Day weekend right there was a reason why we moved but we are the 21st and the May 14th or may or the 21st okay it's probably because of Memorial Day yeah and it was some other City dates that we could I understand all right so I'll make a motion to carry 306th Avenue to May 21st 2024 without further notice and for the record on behalf of my client I consent to extend the time frame within which the board has to act thank you Mr Kenedy I'll second April 30th is the deadline for thank you and I'll make a motion to adjourn the meeting second right