##VIDEO ID:c1qWWUVWLic## okay this meeting is being held in compliance with the open public meetings act chapter 231 public claw 1975 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the coaster in the Asbury Park Press by publication of the annual meeting notice and posted on the municipal Bill polling board and Municipal website all notices are on file with the board secretary official action may be taken on the f matters before the board fire exits are located on the east and west sides of the council chambers as well as the back of the building I ask everybody with a cell phone to mute or turn off your device during the duration of the meeting and this meeting is being recorded by APV B call M Glassman here Mr Harris here Mr Lewis here miss pasini here miss Potter is absent Mr slick is absent Vice chair Scully here and chair Alon is absent okay uh first order of business is 11022 Avenue uh this application will be carried to 92424 with du notice I make a motion I'll second um so and and with that one there there will be new notice correct okay yeah um Miss glasman yes Mr Harris yes Mr Russell yes M passerini yes and vice chair Scully yes okay okay next application in front of us is 300 6th Avenue this is a returning application Mr Kennedy how are you tonight so Mr Kennedy before we start I just wanted to say that um right this is your third time for this application coming back I think we all know why we're here and how we got to this point my goal for this meeting tonight is to hopefully put that behind us and focus on the changes that you have submitted thank you uh and whether this board wishes to Grant variances regarding that uh so with that if you want to give us a brief history and continue from there sure and thank you very much uh good evening everyone good evening board professionals uh we are here tonight as you indicated Mr chair for a continu of the meeting uh that was started I think it was April um you obviously recall that my clients are seeking approval to retroactively legitimize changes from a pre a prior board approval so um I believe it was actually the Mr Avalon who at some point suggested I think um he previously referenced the need for revised plans and details and surveys to be submitted so that the exact nature of the discrepancies could be more easily clearly identified and analyzed and we had not done that uh prior to that last meeting and in retrospect that likely contributed to the meeting not being as as productive as it could have been and that's on us so we apologize for that revised updated plans have have been uh submitted so that any quote unquote uncertainty or so-called guessing about what the changes are uh have have been eliminated my client is asking for relief from some of the previously approved details and In fairness we need to show with Clarity and precision the nature and extent of those details and changes um so that the board can fully evaluate those changes uh the board uh may still obviously have questions and concerns and comments about some of the changes but we should not have put the board in a position last time of having to review the matter without those specific details and measurements and and calculations so we thank you for for that suggestion because that was a fair suggestion and before we turn to the more substantive developments for the record uh let me State the obvious there there's a lesson to be learned here um and the lesson is not withstanding any uh good reason or what someone thinks is a good reason or thinks may be a good reason uh the board's approval the board's resolution uh the board's approved plans are saign and absent a court order or absent further board board endorsement uh approved plan should not be disturbed molested changed Amplified modified enhanced manipulated adjusted mutated distorted uh or substituted whatever word you want to use we know approval needs to be obtained the lesson has been learned uh it's obvious that we're uh sorry and at this point uh that we're here in this position uh respectfully as you indicated sir what what has been done has been done uh we cannot go back we can only move forward and only with the board's consent and Authority my clients and I respect uh the board as an institution respect the board members individually and we respect the process we look forward to working with you so that we can hopefully resolve these issues and just U Mr chairman just in conclusion uh from my introduction I want to put all my cards on the on the table and uh what I'm hoping and I know this is not easy but what I'm hoping is that board members can put their justifiable frustration aside and in the clean light of day look at these changes and discrepancies between what was approved and what was built and find uh any of the combination any of the following combination one that the change is okay two that the change is not that big of a deal or three hey the prior approval should have been obtained but we can live with this change or possibly I understand the need for the change and we're okay with it or possibly uh uh if this particular aspect were presented at the initial hearing maybe it would have been approved anyway or even though the particular aspect is already built and even though I'm not crazy about it I can live with it or I can live with it if XYZ condition can be imposed so as to mitigate or minimize any concerns that you have uh Mr chairman for those reasons for the legal reasons that will be coming and have been and for Equitable reasons and aesthetic reason reasons and finality reasons and for reasons that we need to move on um I'm hoping as you've indicated that we can address satisfact address your your your concerns um when we specify the changes now I've taken the liberty of uh preparing a rather lengthy submission or a super submission and and Jeff I defer to you as do you want to mark it as one big document or you want to Mark everything separately I I I mean that's up to to you uh generally we unless you have any new materials that you're submitting um generally it's part of the packet it was submitted in advance of the hearing in plenty of time we don't have to mark that unless unless you choose that you prefer to mark it thank you included do you do you want to go over a list of what was submitted sure with that packet I think you sent you submitted a letter along with that correct so uh just for the record it was my communication dated July 30th 2024 and attached to that was architectural plans prepared by uh Michael saves dated March 22nd 200 uh see March 22nd 2022 and last revised July 177 2024 and there was some highlighted there and then there was an updated survey prepared by Christopher Sereno and that was last uh revised May 1st 2024 those were the plan elements of it and then there were other photographs uh [Applause] pictures I'm not matching those [Applause] dates um confirm that that might be my [Applause] error yes the new submissions yesy Jim come up here for a second verify the dates ju 17 2477 yeah let's do it all right so it's this all right so so the first plan you mentioned was from MSA AR tax correct I have a date of March 11 2022 I thought you said March 20 or 21 20122 hold on as the as the initial date I just want to make sure oh I I said March 22nd but if that's maybe I was wrong I apologize and it's just that one sheet it was dated oh no this is not the M I'm sorry March 11th 2022 okay is that what you had that's what I have okay sorry about that that's okay okay and then latest revision was July 17 2024 yes yes and it's just page 101 a-1b is correct okay so everyone should have that and then Jeff the only other official plan was the uh updated survey right and that has a the one I have is dated January 12 2024 and there's an update revised May 2024 correct okay and then also in that package were there were copies of permits copies of receipts um photographs uh emails I mean do you want like should we just Mark the whole [Applause] package yeah I just want to make sure our file is includes every okay all right so I have I have a p a photograph [Music] [Applause] yes and you're when you say receipts you're talking about the Home Depot receipts correct New Jersey natural gas email is a letter correct Turf test report correct JM synthetic grass correct emails from Mr biani uh yeah Mr biani [Applause] email from Mr lat laso correct zonu permit [Applause] there's a certificate of some sort it looks like a temporary Co correct and there are some emails that appear to be from members of the community perhaps I don't know about that two members in town board Beth Kaplan Deborah CRA kenzano luran Anthony petti and Gabriella and Frank cinat are any of them here tonight here who's here okay pett okay Jeff I think the only thing that uh you didn't reference was my letter to the city clerk asking uh to uh was dated uh May of 2024 asking to um put the uh Turf in the right of way right yeah that is in here okay and uh there's an email or a response rejecting correct okay yep that all appears to be in here okay so we'll we'll mark the whole packet A1 thank you I'm sorry uh looks like A3 got it we had up to A2 last time and uh Mr chairman I um I have several witnesses here tonight I don't necessarily know that we're going to need them but I have them just so you all here I know I have uh James Dunn the applicant he was sworn last time I have Chris CW the Builder uh his son Tyler CW the Builder um Michael SE our architect and uh Scott Lyn our our engineer and um Mr chairman I um certainly defer to you and the board members as to how you want to proceed but I'm assuming that unless you feel differently I would just go through the various changes and uh I think that might be the the easiest way where you think Jee just go through his letter with with each number Point that he's got there I I think that makes sense just so the board is up to speed as to what's going on in the public as well um Mr Kenny just one thing before we start just for the record I want to let you know that um Miss pasini listened to the tapes from the original hearing July 26 2022 and she was also here at the uh April 9 2024 meeting and Mr Harris uh certified that he listened to the tape from the April 9 2024 meeting and he was um present at the original July 26 2022 meeting and the other three members who are here this evening none of them have any conflicts they have attended all of the meetings for this application I than and I thank the board members for listening to the to the tapes it's very helpful U Mr Kennedy before you start as you go through this uh all of the board members obviously have read your letter uh so don't feel that you need to read it word for word for each thing uh also point point well just to kind of keep things going in the right direction and uh the photos that you've submitted the new photos um are they current or are those old cuz it looks like it's still under construction which I will have my client address that because he took most of those pictures just for the record all right sounds good thank you so Mr chairman I would assume that we start on on and actually my last caution is um I put this what I'll call a super lengthy uh submission together um my intent was to address most of the items if not all the items that had come up at the first meeting so if I missed some items I apologize and I put it if I put in items which you feel should not have been put in and don't need to be discussed I apologize for that so I assume we start on page three just with the column width and it basically I won't I won't repeat it but um we had my client had purchased the initially approved uh what had been for the initial approved column whs and it just it didn't fit over uh would not physically fit over the support beam so we went back and and purchased the new and I think there was some discussion as to what uh I think last time there was a concern that maybe they were uh 12in columns but they're technically uh 10in tapered columns and we're hopefully um that's acceptable to to the board and Mr Kennedy maybe through one of the professionals can you explain why uh I'm assuming this the supports needed to be yes stronger or wider and that's why the columns had to be wider to fit over them could I have Jim uh client he was previously sworn I think Chris would be better okay we'll have our Builder come up and explain that uh Mr chairman he was not previously sworn so I I'll have him sworn in yes are we going to how do you want you want to go through this letter first and then have your your I mean I don't want to go peaceful back whatever you want I'm I'm I'm totally 100% fine I mean is your Builder going to testify to other items I truthfully I was just going to go through the items one by one and if you had questions I would address them um but I'm not I'm not wed to that idea I want to do whatever the most efficient yeah I mean I think you need to put your testimony on for this board we we can't bring about the testimony so um you know I I think you have to figure out what process you want to take based upon your letter but but for consistency purposes I'd like to stick with one witness at a time okay and go through the issues that that witness uh is going to provide detail on that's that'll be F okay you have a seat and if you can raise your hand do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and for the record state your name and please spell your name as well Christopher D call last name k okay all right good evening and just uh for the record uh State your business address 1138 Pine Bluff Avenue Point Pleasant New Jersey and what is uh your profession we are a licensed uh Home Improvement contractor licensed Builder licensed realtor and you're the Builder for this particular uh project at uh uh 3006 Avenue correct that's correct okay and you're familiar with the application and you're familiar with the site and the construction Pro progress I am okay and just for the record uh you've heard me uh talk about the uh the uh column with why don't you explain from a professional standpoint uh the situation so essentially the front canopy is supported by a 6x6 pressure treated timber that's the the heart of the uh of the support the plans show a tapered column on there that is labeled as an 8 in colum so essentially you have a 6x6 with an 8 in round circumference over the top of it and in theory it sounds like it fits but when we got it to the site the 8 in collar did not fit around the 6x6 Timber at the top which forced us to go to a 10-in tapered column so it's a 10-inch ring on the top that fits around the 6x6 column and it feathers its way down to a 12-in bottom that's what they call a tapered column so it would be labeled as a 8 in tapered column 10in tapered column 12in tapered column Etc and so the did uh uh 8 in tapered columns purchased were initially purchased right we had them delivered on site we attempted to put them up and we even started to try and Cham for the edge of the top but it would had to go down so far that it was actually impeding on the structural Integrity of the 6x6 so we had to uh ship them back and and order the uh 10-in tapered column so the 6x6 was was on the initial plans that wasn't changed it was just that you couldn't fit the the 8 in taper around the 6 structural support so that's what's kind of under most of the decorative columns you're going to see that or anywhere in the neighborhood that's what's underneath them okay I just have one question by using just for clarification by using that wider column did that have any consequences for other aspects of the build I don't believe so um so essentially when you're you're talking about it's the change was really when you when you actually look at it it's minimal you're going from 8 to a 10 so it's it's 2 in but on the whole radius so on a visual perspective it doesn't grow very much it's just allowing that collar to fit around when you have a square and around the points on the Square just wouldn't allow the column to connect did you have to build the porch out any further I'm sorry we didn't hear you say it again please did you have to build the porch out no we did not was that discussed with any City official no was the original column 10 at the base so the original column is an 8 in tapered which would be 10 at the base and then the way those colar columns work even even on the tapered part where you go from the 8 to the 10 you still have the decorative base at the bottom which is sort of what makes it look larger than what it really is that's just a decorative piece that all the columns have at the bottom so there's a there's an additional collar that goes on the bottom so it's either just plain nothing or it has the uh sort of that Nuance at the bottom so it was more decorative than it was structurally important they're they're absolutely decorative yes the 8 in column the 10-in column they're all decorative columns yeah they're all they're wraps they're just casings that go over the 6x6 post okay so actually it's something you could have survived without sure if you wanted to you could do that yeah okay I just would have felt better if you had have discussed it with the city officials you know before you went forward um in that situation you yeah you know we've went over this at at length and and we understand the um uh the the the scrutiny that we're we're being presented with here from my perspective 45 years in the business this level of scrutiny really for us wouldn't come into play unless it was like in a historic zone or something to that effect this is more of administr the other thing is is would the 8 in columns fit on the beam no okay again so the plan shows you know a decorative casing on it it was just simply going from an eight to a 10 Mr I just I just want to correct something this this isn't a heightened level of scrutiny uh the reason why your client is back here is because they were non-compliant to the resolution so there is absolutely a deviation between what was approved and what was built and I agree with you that is why we are here absolutely y thank you so Mr chairman that is there's no variance um I think I would go to this witness for the uh cuz I think he has information on the gas meter location okay very very briefly okay so the original idea with the gas meter is that we presented to um to uh uh to the utility company was originally placed on the back side of the building when they came out for their site visit they said absolutely not it has to be on this side of the building and it's a direct line there's no way that the gas meter can can have any kind of a deviation or a turn in it's it's it's it's a straight shot from the curve and just for clarification when you see the originally The Backs side of the building you're talking about the we elevation correct that's where it was originally planed and then it moved to the South elevation that's correct do you have any documentation on what the gas company said I believe we do yes yes it is it is in the package and uh and then one other side well I think just for for for the record I believe that the gas company uh had indicated in subsequent conversations about uh they want a straight direct line to the street and they don't want to have to uh Bend piping around the corner that's correct I mean does that sound sounds logical to me it's actually pretty typical um we thought maybe at one point they were going to go from the back and run to the to the uh Sixth Avenue side but they said no the distance was too far they wanted to go to the straight shot on on web and I think Mr chairman there's one other offshoot of that uh uh gas meter relocation was there initial plans had a a double glass door back there I think correct that's correct and that was changed that's correct and why was that changed we had to reduce the size because of the placement of the gas meter in conjunction with the electric meter as well there's a distance between the two of those that had to be achieved and we ran out of room okay okay so the the Poli where it is now and I don't know if if you're a witness or or maybe our engineer can answer so that's the driveway does that need to be protected by some type of those those pillars because the cars are coming in there there are ballards there are ballards there now okay all right I'm sorry I was looking at the old picture Okay Don do you have a question was there a reason electric Mir couldn't be on the front um nor this point I understand the gas company saying that's too far a run to the back of the house if that's where only that's a that's a good question um my understanding of the placement of both of those was dictated by the utility company we asked for what we wanted and they basically said this is where we're putting it when it comes to the gas meter per se the the gas company the electric compan is is is they want the the easiest convenience for their meter readers and I believe the driveway side was what is where they wanted it well so what is in the house on the ground floor in that corner a closet so where's the furnace the furnace is in the center of the home so it's a um so normally new construction yeah they usually try and site where the utilities come into the house where your meter panel is Right shortest distance to your meter panel and wherever your furnace is going to be um so I understand you know if that stuff is in the back half of the house you'd want to come in off web it's a shorter run it's a straight run from the utility company's perspective but you know we have utilities on six the front corner of the house is not an unreasonable location to come in yeah it's a long run to the back but if it's in the middle if all your utilities are in the middle of the house again I don't know why um those locations were chosen by by a utility company well part of it was hold on we've been trying with much larger developments than this to get cooperation with jcpnl and New Jersey natural gas on meters and Transformers and right regulators it I you know I I can see it's problematic for people trying to do this and you get what you get sometimes with that right okay and and they do have to have separation distances from openings and from other utility connections it's just as a safety thing and Jerry are there ballards in front of the electrical panel as well or just in front of the gas you know I say for sure I don't recall I did see the Ballers by the gas meter there's ballers in front of are there as well okay thank you you know what while we're doing this why don't I swear you both in I don't were you here at the it's not here it's my first okay so so I'm glad that that why don't I swear you both and just so we have for the record you swear affirm that the testimony you'll provide this evening will lead the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth it do thank you I okay and yes there there is a Ballard in front of the um electric meter panel on the other house and one two on either side of the gas meter okay thank you uh Mr chairman I'd like to now uh go to page 12 of my uh memo in terms of roof deck screening and uh I think we're going to need witness uh testimony from two different Witnesses on this but uh Mr Co will will provide some okay um just to to set the stage um you'll recall that what was approved was a um lattice type of of screening and it was changed uh to uh a Louver material and uh as I referenced in my letter and I just want to be real brief on this on the record um there were some representations made at the last hearing uh second-handed representations that uh official of the city had requested a and c and I after that meeting I spoke with Mr laso um I to my knowledge I've never spoken with him before he was very very nice uh very professional I spoke with him probably for about an about an hour and he said listen I I don't remember that I don't I've never said those and I don't think anyone in my office would would would have said those things so I said that I would relay that information because as an officer of the court I didn't want uh now I firmly believe that there is no misrepresentation on the part of anybody I think that there were so many conversations and so many Communications and so many uh people on the various part I think that there's some confusion but I just want to lay that uh straight um but now Mr uh Co I believe that you have had conversations with the uh construction official about the uh Louver Lattis screening that's correct and why don't you and again I don't want to imply that anyone is not but but why don't you tell about the conversations and I think that there are some actually actions in furtherance of those conversations so why don't you just explain what what has happened so as as you can imagine just sort of to set the stage it's it's a it's a 20 foot wide house 50 foot long you guys are I'm sure familiar with the term 10 PB a 5B bag so there's a lot going on for the record that's not the legal term but but you know so there's there's there's a lot of moving part to to get what we needed to get in that house so I had several conversations with Mr Lako about challenges that we had how are we going to achieve this you know getting you know the fire ratings and so there was plenty of meetings that I had with him in the field in regards to how we were going to you know achieve building this you know a bunch of different issu on a lot of different issues when we got to the third floor for the um for the hot tub the planted showed screens on the two sides on the U west side and the on the southern side the planet only reflected two screens and two screens which didn't actually cover the areas that were climbable for for people bench seats countertops things of that nature and because of the height of the pool and where it placed on that roof there was additional lengths of screen that had to be put up and then the convers ation when we started looking at the screens that were on the plan it had came up that we were talking about the lattice formation where you know in in not to speak for him but his his words were more in the in the line of if kids are standing on the hot tub they're going to be climbing the walls this is what he had said I had toned it down and said and used the term scalable so the the word scalable Came From Me Not Mr waso his verbiage on that was a little bit different but it all related to being able to climb it as if you were standing on the top of the on the top of the tub climbing the walls having kids up on the on the third floor B and as I understand it wasn't necessarily his personal opinion it was building and construction code regulations it was it for him he didn't I don't think he particularly cared what it looked like for him it was more of somebody can climb this and he goes I can't have that we also had the the the distance of the two pieces where I was trying to get him is instead of putting three lates up the plan only had the two I asked him if he would accept a tapered lattice to kind of does that come out far enough from the edge of the tub to give him the clearance or the height that he requirement that he wanted if someone was standing on the edge of the tub and he agreed that he would take the angled formation I actually built him a mockup piece of the Louver as opposed to the lattice you mean like a sample a sample it was a two foot by two foot piece of the uh of the exact material the gauge you know allowing the air to flow through because there's there's other restrictions that you have to deal with because it's on the third floor Ocean Side so there were other factors that had to go into that lattice wall or that loued wall other than just the way it looked it had to be strong enough to withstand the wind all the other dynamics that were going on on the third floor and as well as meet the safety requirements for IE anybody you know doing stupid stuff standing on the edge of the tub which is how we got to that louvered wall because it was not climbable from the inside and we built the louvers tight enough that you couldn't get your feet in between them to actually put your hands in and scale which is how we got to the Louver versus the lattice and Mr chairman what I will add on behalf of my client what was approved on the approved plans was the lattice my client had no problem with the lattice did not want to change it and only change it as as a result of that and I think it was actually you know significantly more expensive because it had to come from a some sort of fabricated wall but my client is willing to put a lot of material over this if the board wants it but we are concerned that that that might be a a safety a safety issue okay um just going to remind me again did your client change the size of the hot tub than what was initially on the initial plans this I recall a conversation where this is a bigger hot tub yes and therefore it required a bigger screen or lattice whatever we're using so let's just say hypothetically if if if the original plan showed a Mr call let's that talk hypothetical let's talk the original plan yeah I don't have it and then what's what's actually yeah I don't have it in front of me so if you want the exact measurement of the tub I'd have to refer to the plan okay so maybe your maybe your client can testify address that okay momentarily yeah that's um so Mr call with with what what is there now is is this what's there now where there's the louvers and then there's the open tapering I don't know if you could maybe Mr Kennedy has a picture that you can look the photo from the original l i mean the original um L is that correct right I don't think so you know chairman is's going to take it from you for one [Music] second yes this is what's there [Applause] now okay that that tapered piece um and again I don't know if you could see it from here so this tapered piece right here is that going to be loued or that's going to stay open the way that is the intent was to leave it like it was so wasn't didn't look as intrusive as the uh as the lers no no but the way it is is how it was approved by the building department they accepted that he did doesn't need to be led because it's far enough away from it wasn't scalable that's correct so there had to be a fence you're not doing lers on that that's that's saying the way it is and then this is a accurate picture of the louers that are there that's correct okay so the Louver from the outside is facing this way but from the inside it's facing this way just as if you were in a home okay and then what is on the the north side so so this is the south side of the building is there is are there LS on the so it's just on the west and the South what in the South okay sorry West yeah and you didn't need any rers on the East can when you have that conversation do you recall approximately like a date about the Comfort level about the design about the lattice or when you we were ma we were um we were fully framed fully ply with it um we were at the point of working on the siding at that point um so you know if I was to backtrack it from inspections and stuff I could get you an approximate date or even go through a text message and you know um because I did have several meetings on site with Mr laso but off the top of my head I don't know the exact date I I wouldn't have a [Applause] yeah Mr Kennedy in your package you have any communication from the town that that this current we have a communication regarding the height of uh the element but I don't know if about the Louver we can ask Mr um done that question okay it would have probably been around that same time if we were talking about the height of it and the distance of it you know when we did the mockup it was all in that same breath and Mr chairman I I def I mean if you want me to bring up Mr Dunn right now or you know you know no let's finish with the one witness and proceed fashion yeah um but but again that is subject to your discretion if if you want that changed back to Louver or some Lou covering subject to compliance with building and construction code regulations we will we will do that we we're not that was not a generated by our concern so we'll we're willing to do that we're just concerned of the liability okay were you aware of any plans that were prepared um by Mr saves with regard to the trellis system last system changing it from Louver to uh last for the design of the lattice no or the perpa no Donna have we seen that lver system used before is is that no but I mean the louvers are effectively a solid wall and we had said we wanted lattice and vegetation supposed to be green which would be like a planter wall which would be something that would keep you from being able to climb right the top of the hot tub to the ceiling but I mean I don't do I want to get ahead of myself um you know there are plans that were approved by the building department that show a lattice it goes all the way up to the top of the pergola so why would there be a concern about scalability right I lattice the the trellis design allows for light air in open space and privacy which were the primary concerns of the board when there was going to be this rooftop deck for the neighbor to the west and to the South and the additional thing was yeah we want it to be vegetated that'll be seasonal interest that'll give the screening privacy Right light air open space without being a solid wall what did we get we got a solid wall so if if I if I can speak if um if the goal is to create vegetation and if the goal is to have the lattice look we can do both of those by adding the lattice and adding the vegetation I think the concern is that you could you could still close those louvers and and we still have a solid wall well the idea of the louvers again goes back to a different point the louvers cannot be climbed by an average human being from the inside from either side the lattice that approved by the building department was also not climbable the lce approved by the building department is climbable which is how we got to the louers I have the plan approved by the building department that doesn't that doesn't mean that they didn't make a mistake by over overlooking that I mean I think that's basically a common sense issue there's a reason why railings are a certain distance apart right so you can't put your head the top of the pera why would it be climbable you'd have to climb over the per you'd have to get through the perola to get over it um again my point is the lattice provide light air and open space this is a side guard setback issue this is a building separation issue are the lubers adjustable no so they're fixed correct so it's a solid wall and I don't know that it satisfies the positive criteria through the grant of the variance the way did sorry D I mean over you so approximately what's the size of of that wall with the lters uh you talking about the thickness or the space between no the the the width and height the width is about 6t and the height is about 6t and the Louver spacing it looks solid but it's it's nowhere near solid the spacing on that is about 2 and2 Ines it depends on where you look at it from whether you look at it from the Louver facing down or the L facing up yeah I'm sorry did you say the length was 6 ft the width the width is approximately 6ot is that the same for both the Southside and the west side I believe so the columns were spaced evenly so you know again is is it 5 foot 6 or is it 6 foot you know I'm going off of memory I'm I'm talking in generalities do we have any pictures of the West side wall or just the South there are a couple other pictures in the packet okay I'm not sure what side that is it's hard to tell but that would be the south side because you got the open fence on the right of it okay okay so my copy of the as buil architectural plans show that being at least 10t not 6t each section is is is five and change is that what you're talking about each section or are you talking about the whole length of the wall so the overall length that is drawn on the plan for that lattice in plan view is 9 ft 8 in 10 uh 9 ft 10 Ines go to the elevation View and Mr Kennedy just just correct me for the record the you don't you don't have any Communications written Communications from the building Department saying that the lattice that was approved is is scalable in their opinion we don't we don't have that no and when I also suggest I don't know if it helps for tonight but I mean obviously we're looking to get approval and we want this board uh to be as happy as it can be under the circumstances and obviously we want to comply with prevailing building and construction code regulations I mean if if you want we'll talk to Mr laso and get written confirmation I mean I I don't I don't want to I mean none none of us want to approve something that right is is not up to code so again as I'm looking at this asil plan the change to the lattice and the pergola the pergola got raised in height from the original design and then this uh Louver section is measuring 8 and 1/2 ft in length on the South Side um but the um height of the luers is 5' 6 in from the top of the knee wall and then there's an additional clear height to the top of the perow which is now more than half more than halfway to the peak of the house whereas before it was in line with with the S the roof plate yeah it's about 6 in above the gutter line right it's about 6 Ines above the gutter line on that not the way the architecturals have show it um I can't tell from any of photographs because from ground level there's too much too much angle on so on the West Side how long how long is are these louvers now on the west side on the west side it's like 17 ft so it's basically just a Sol wall how long 17 ft approximately um the span of the pergola I can't tell this might be about yeah 18 and a half and Mr oh I'm sorry I I believe the height was dictated by Mr Lako we have an to that okay and that was uh Chris that was the height of the that was based off of uh the from the height of the tub to the height if somebody was standing on the top of the tub to the height of that uh L wall if you want my impression of it the height is dictated as a fence wood for a pool compliant fence right so the buil the construction of official has to make sure it's not climbable like a pool compliant fence would not be climbable although on a third floor it might have to be a little higher because it's rather than ground level a higher level and if we have a bigger tub that's raised up more then obviously the the fence is going to have to be higher benches or whatever else it's going to have to be above those by whatever the requirement is that the building official required mandated so there was uh there was bench seats that were approved on that on that floor as well and again it's When J going back to what he just said about the lattice is it's if you have a box that's 8 by8 somebody's foot and hand could it was just it was pretty obvious when we were having that conversation Mr Lako and myself that ltis was absolutely I use the word scalable he said climb you know those those bench seats were they were the height of those changed from the the original the original PL I don't believe that the height of the bench seats was changed no okay does the bigger hot tub constitute a taller seat or edge of the tub are you asking about the height of the tub I the height of the tub never changed I think it was just it went from Square to rectangular based off of availability so we have three changes we talked about right now basically the column with okay um the screening around the tub which has to do with the L correct and I look at my notes the gas the um gas meter okay three do you have any idea of the time period that happen between from one to the other because it appears to me that these changes were made in different phases of the building am I right about that yes okay and I'm just wondering whe there being a city official constantly being there would have been would it have been hard to get some type of documentation would you could have brought I mean you documented the gas thank you very much you know it's just this just writing on some of this stuff is sold I don't have my GL and I apologize for that um but would it have been difficult to bring in documentation on every step you made as to protect yourself okay and as to give us proof as to what you were doing because when you come in after the fact and you don't come in with documentation why you did it it makes it a difficult thing for us to say okay it almost seems like you're saying you know column with okay we're going to change that let's go okay we got documentation for this now we're up on top of the house okay Okay so we've G from the bottom of the house with col to the top of the house which has to be a lot a long period of time but we're making these changes as we go without documentation that's what bothers me sir yeah there and there there's there is no doubt that I have to bear some of the responsibility for that and and I I tried to explain to Mr Kennedy from the beginning where in the field the conditions are a little bit different and it's always easy to go back as a Monday Morning Quarterback and look at all this stuff and say you know I should have could have would have been a and and and some of that like I said I'm not I'm not negating that I have responsibility there but from the beginning where the town said okay and and this started with the 5A construction fire code where we went from twoot SS down to 12 inch sofits where when the town or the building official says you know this doesn't work and we have to make a change it's sort of like the wheels in my mind were set where okay he if Mr lasak was making random changes that I didn't realized that we had to take like a decorative column and and get that approved but Mr Harris to your point we should have had better documentation and we can't go back but yes it would have life would have been easier if I could give you some of those letters but when you come before us sir you all one thing you do to be approved by this board is we accept your credentials and part of your credentials tells us how long you've been in business so I'm quite sure you have had these problems face you before AG the second thing is that the owners does not come on you it comes to bear on the homeowner right and he's the one who's asking forgiveness not you agreed but we're all on the same team but to your point is yes I wish we had some documentation for some of those other items thank you T you have a question so you don't have to have something not scalable on the east side on the east side uh it's not where the hot tub is but there's seating and the counter and the so the counter height there's no there there's nothing in other words it's a um it's a ledge like a counter ledge at at at bar height at 42 but there's no there's nothing to the chair that goes with it well I guess in theory if if you were to stand on a chair it's just as Reckless as any other excuse for the hot tub yeah listen if if you're looking to get in trouble anybody can get in trouble but we don't have to have the theory there is is that the the wall is 36 and then the additional the additional fence that's up there puts it at that that 42 in which is above the the the trbl I wanted to climb on my chair jump off the roof it's just as easy as if I climbed on the edge of the hot tub and scaled the lattice well the difference is the edge of the tub is is is a fixed entity and you're in the pool so if you're sitting on the pool and then you stand up on the tub or you decide to maybe dive or do something like that you know if you want to get in trouble you could always find TR that's my point so it's important to have the louers non-scalable screening on only on those two sides but not the other two sides I I'm not seeing the logic and I don't see why it has to be louvers when it could have been the the approved the lattice that the architect originally designed or not originally all is designed to accommodate the building fish's concerns the tub is about 5T from that east side wall so nobody standing on the tub would be affected by by that per se you know again if you could use that same sort of theory on anybody's balcony or anybody's roof if if you want to if you want to go through through the trouble of doing that but the pool takes on a different criteria again my my point is that light air open space privacy is satisfied by the design that was approved by the building department on these plans right but louers I don't think so that's for you guys to decide but the maybe in combination with some sort of um planter which I don't know how you could accommodate between the hot tub and the wall uh and it still leaves almost a solid wall and yeah the bottom half is still effectively solid is it a difficulty to remove the lers I'm sorry is it a difficulty to remove the lers and to come into compliance it you know I'm in construction anything is possible can we ask the owner sure I I'll bring him up and we'll ask that when when we okay when I call him up okay that's fine thank you all right Mr Kenny is are there any other items on your list for Mr call it um yes partially the um the uh uh balconies uh he's got some uh involvement on that uh again just I'm going to have to have combination of testimony on this okay but uh uh sir you're you're familiar with the balcony uh situation correct that's correct and what uh what was approved and the size and the reason for the size limitations and uh what was as built you you're familiar with those discrepancies yes and why don't you for the record explain what was required so essentially um the the approved drawings had the 4 foot by 4 foot inside di menion for the uh for the balconies as and and just for the record I think initially at the very very first hearing from several years ago I think there was what was initially proposed was one long balconing correct I'm not aware okay and then and then it got changed okay so where where I took it was the inside Dimension was 4T X 4T when we were were building those we realized that you couldn't actually open up the storm door from the outside with the with the dimension the square dimension of 4ot by 4ot that was there so at that point we changed the size of the balcony not to inter interrupt with the setback from the from the roads side instead of making it Square we made it rectangular so we reduced the depth and created a little bit more width so when you were standing at the door to open it even though it is still tight you could stand by the door open the sco door and enter it or or close it you didn't think to change the door you thought to change the balcony to match the door the storm door wasn't the I'm sorry it was not supposed to be the interior Dimension that's what the plan represents so wait so we we have a couple questions why don't you ask member uh Le his want you try to answer his question first then we'll go to uh member sorry what was the question you didn't think to maybe change the door instead of the balcony size to fit the door maybe to reduce the door size another door you know at at at this point it was it's a 32in door in a 48in space so there was roughly seven or eight inches on each side of the door at a certain point I'm not sure sure if if you just take the door out all together and put it I guess all those options are are clearly feasible but the doors we had ordered were um at that point we were still dealing with covid so the doors and the windows that we had ordered it took us Chris it was almost seven seven months to get so just changing doors and windows wasn't as easy as it is today you know we were we were online for almost 5 months waiting for those doors to come in and even in fact when a couple of them came in damaged we still had to wait another uh couple you didn't have that issue with the column so so columns were easy enough to get you know this is Anderson I I get what you're saying it was glass it was anything I understand we're not that far out of Co but this board has here has heard multiple excuses about supply chain we're all well aware of it um so let's just move on from that right so it was it was uh the windows took us almost 5 months to get and you know again was it possible to reduce the size of the door I I guess that's in theory that would would have been an option it wouldn't have solved the idea of being able to open or close a storm door from the outside okay irregardless of the size but I I thought that I recalled in the report that Mr Kennedy provided that the storm there was an afterthought that someone thought about well it's east facing and there's wind and we get storms and maybe we should get a storm door but that was not part of the original design for for for me I'm not aware of that being an afterthought that was always the thought and ma'am if I could I believe our architect will say that he typically doesn't put storm doors those details on the plans but that's he'll he'll come to that he'll come up and testify to that and I get I would also ask if this was not intended to be a sitting porch that you did have an alternative of Simply creating a I don't know triple pain window you know fullsize window rather than an door that open um I'm I'm not following that line of thought I mean if if if a window you saying the reason you changed the the size and shape of those porches was to accommodate the swing of the door correct you could have eliminated a door then we would put a closed but then we wouldn't need the balcony so it's uh you know that was sort of counterintuitive to if there's a door there to go out to the balcony so if you were to remove the balcony all together and put a window there you wouldn't need the balcony that's that's correct that this is a balcony so there's usually a door to go to the balcony but there was this there was there was discussion if I recall correctly about these balconies and then the board approved Juliet balconies which normally you do not have enough room to sit out there as Miss glasman is saying so the intent was and and I believe there was conversation on the record that these would not be large enough to fit a table or chairs cor weren't to be used for that so so that's I think that is what Miss class it was principally to add life then an open a door that opened it was irrelevant but can can we get back to that if if I may can I just go do a couple things and I think I maybe better address that question if that's okay sure just for the record um and this I'm just reading from my letter so as a builder you can confirm uh there's two balconies the the northern balcony and the southern balcony so my understanding is that the northern compy as constructed measures 2T 10 in Deep by 5T 8 in wide inside dimensions is is that correct that's correct and again my map suggests that it's 16.05 55556 ft rounded to 16 square ft um and then for the southern balcony as constructed I believe it measures 2 10 in Deep by 6' 1 in wide again inside dimensions is that accurate I believe so yes and I have that reflecting as 177.23 6111 ft rounded up to 7.24 Square ft so just for the record th those are the dimensions and just but those aren't the dimensions on the plans that's correct those right as those di mentions as built I'm sorry no no the as built plans we receive do not have those sorry I should say as constructed that that's the so asil plans mean right but the what did the asilt the architect prepared as built architectural plans right okay the interior dimensions are dimensioned on those of the balconies it is not 2 10 it's 3 fo6 that's that's incorrect and I believe you just said you recall I thought you I thought you were referencing seal a set of points I thought you were referencing the original drawing but the uh the 3 fo 10 is not correct 3' 6 3 fo6 is not correct and I believe on the uh Mr s's plans that were submitted uh tonight marked in uh reflect the dimensions that I I had said 2 foot1 that's what this says right 2ot 10 [Music] interior so basically which which further reduces the O the the odds of anybody putting a lawn chair or or really doing much of anything out there um so so well and again that purpose chair thing was an example the point was we didn't want multiple people standing outside on the second floor and if you can if you are standing shoulder toh shoulder you can put two people on that balcony now whereas before it was just stand in the doorway like a Juliet Balcony but can I just and again I I'm troubled by the fact that we have Sign Sealed as built Dr lines from the architect that have a dimension for that space and now you're telling me no no no it's actually much smaller 4ot X 4ot is a pretty generous space okay but you know basically what you said sir is the opening of the door dictated why you deviated from the original plant correct correct okay would a sliding door have sufficed on a 4ot on a 4ot interior balcony no no no we're talking about getting fresh a and looking outside not standing on the 2T porch okay so if you're just going to open the door look outside and get fresh air okay I'm saying would a sliding door have sufficed that purpose it would have interfered with the interior framing the closets and other things that are on the inside of the building so theoretically no um it wouldn't have allowed for the closet space in the bedro bedrooms okay but I I follow your line of thought which is a good one but in this particular case again the rooms are very compacted and to get the things that were in the rooms I.E the closets that would have clearly affected both of those balconies or adjoined with closets that's if you slide from the inside and not from the outside either way uh so in other words if if I was to exceed on the inside a larger door a 4ft slider in other words to have a twoot 2ot which would be a 4ft slider we didn't have the room on the inside would French doors would have worked it's the same concept uh you know again if you have if you're talking about French like being multiple doors or just a single French door but again if you're not if in our discussions the inent the intention was not for someone not to be able to stand on those balconies and use them for for any looking at French doors or really basically it's like giant French Windows you can open those up to get air in to get light in but you really can't do anything else with that space But in but in the original design um mechanically that would have been what you could do in a 4ot by 4ot space well hold on you could do less in a 210 hold that thought for one second so just for the record the as initially approved it was uh the board approved two 4ft deep balconies correct correct and and our balcony as constructed not withstanding Donna's concerns about uh plan details to the contrary um is are our balconies 4T deep no they're are they more than 4T deep they're less and how much less 2 10us 4T that's uh 18 is it 14 in I mean I have it's 14 in it's 14 in less less so would that but they're wider yeah absolutely agree but but but but hold hold on for one thought just as a practical matter can you in terms of the board's concerns about and I remember the concerns being about furniture and things like that but we'll get to people too but just as a practical matter how functional is it for furniture to be placed on a a a balcony that's 2 feet 10 in it's zero practical for any furniture oh I think that's it's 2 fo 10 so I think that's a positive imagination you could fit a few stools I mean there there's some things you do but that wasn't the point and it's still well part of the point was to reduce the ability of people [Music] to people that also lose privacy it's the same amount of people could stand at a 4T by 4T areas they can a 2T 10 x 5ft area but just if if if I if I could and not really we typically use 3 ft as a dimension for a bench uh for the width of a bench or a seat um so you kind of push the envelope of trying to overlap two people side by side on well you're also pushing that same envelope with a 2ot 10 withd Dimension because that doesn't much for people to walk around if there's a chair you can't even physically walk around talking about just being able to go out right and stand so the board considered you know an alternative a real Juliet Balcony is you don't you're not on the outside of the building you can't even step there's a railing across an opening right and you're not outside of the building and the board said all right you know that might be a little too much extreme we get you know being able to come outside and so that 4tx 4T Dimension was felt to be reasonable and again that's to the exterior walls you measure everything to exterior walls when we measure and that gives you the sense of yes it's a oneperson space I'm looking at the resolution compliance plant for the architecture right now and they show a 4ft x 4ot Dimension so when these came in to be approved for promise they were 4T by4 feet dimensioned and that's on the inside and these were the set that Maran actually sent me saying I'm getting push back on these was that that was that was inside dimensions t or outside no it's I'm measuring it it's the outside Dimension but um and these were the set that she sent to me saying I'm getting pushed back if what was the what was the the basis of the condition right so these went back and they were told to make them 4T by 4T and and and as I'm looking at it the hot tub was oriented differently on these plants but it was a larger hot tub and it said proposed trellis planted with vegetation for screening yeah and just in terms of the [Music] um the uh the 2ot 10 depth that as as constructed with I'm sorry um is the functionality further compromised by the existence of what will be there's no storm door there now but does that further uh compromise the ability of of people to use that balcony of course you know anytime you want to open up the door you're still stepping around there's a lot of jockeying that has to take place just to get around the storm door and the other thing Mr chairman just just I I obviously I understand the board concerns if the board was inclined we would uh put a deed restriction in effect that would be approved saying um what I said that it cannot be utilized to store host any type of Furniture chair table Etc I I can't recommend to the board a d restriction I mean I we can't enforce it you're you're putting that on the the city of Asbury Park to enforce it and that's not something and that was not our intent but we wanted to say that you know make make that that offer I I think I just think that the issue about this furniture is a distraction yeah so the so the storm doors are not installed you have not installed them correct even though the you recommended or the architect recommended that they be installed we we just took it for granted because it was on the second floor in the elements and it was uh it was on the east side of the building so the storm door from from the homeowner standpoint was always in the um was always in the mix okay so this was another decision that was just made as we went along no uh storm doors screens things of that nature shutters normally aren't put on a plan um so even on the front doors that are on the uh on the house now if they weren't underneath a covered porch would have storm doors okay storm do and N aren't required no but they're also not required on plans so you know that's they're they're considered decorative so when you're when anytime when you're considering something from our perspective or from a builder's perspective is decorative they're not always labeled on the plan but that decorative addition caused you to change what had been agreed to you telling me something the look good okay a decorative addition of a stone door forced you to change the dimensions of the balony that's correct and that is a violation of what you age to changing the size of the balcony is is is clearly beyond the scope of the initial approval absolutely okay so you won't be on the scope for something that was dective I'm sorry you won't be you won't be on the SC scope of what was agreed to for something that was decorative well the the terminology of decorative is being taken out of context of why it's not on the plan as as a storm door labeled on the plan and Mr chairman if if I let's go back to your 5 pound bag that's what you're telling me right uh Mr chairman as again recognizing that that deed restriction was practically uh speaking LED some problems but again that was just our intent to no I I I appreciate you making the offer even though PR yes and and I I don't disagree with Mr Beakman's um issues uh but also one other thing if uh I have the authority of my client to to say that if the board is very troubled by this we can put in some type of fake wall to prevent the um fake walls maybe not or dummy wall to prevent the excess with from being used if if that is I don't think it's necessarily the most practical thing but we we want to work with the board and we want to make every where so in other words create a um Bas out the of the no the insides the inside yeah the inside of the balcony right which would I I look I appreciate you saying that we all know that walls can be taken down and removed but I do appreciate you taking taking and that's obviously for the board to consider um any additional items for Mr PA on your list um let me just C through my checklist uh I do not believe so I um but I reserve my right to bring him back should we need it and obviously with your consent certainly can I I I would have one more question so I understand from Z what you just read that Maran felt that the zoning officer felt that she was getting pushed back on this so you must have felt that I don't know the contractor would have been involved yet this was still at the stage of the design plan so that may have been beforehand okay I'll leave my question Mr Ken maybe we should have the architect uh instead of your client Tech um testify next I think we have some questions that be relevant should you bring it up y before we do that let's just open to public just in case there are any public questions for this witness thank you yes is there anyone in the public that would has have a question based on Mr Call's testimony here tonight seeing none okay can move forward thank you Jee thank you all right good evening Mr saes if you could just uh State your uh name and business address please my name is Michael Saar uh MSA Architects recently relocated to 21 Cedar Avenue in Fair Haven um New Jersey been in front of this board many times all right I think jeffman oh yeah swear affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do okay okay and Mr Sav for the record you're a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey correct correct and for the record how many uh years experience do you have too many I think uh other than the one question of I'm assuming your license is still active and current active and current I think l in newor I think your your qualifications are good based on your previous testimony on this application thank you um Mr Sav I guess before we um there were some questions about uh what we're just talking about uh the balcon do you have anything to add on I do I I actually I guess first of all could you explain or if there appears to be any consistency on the measurements no there is not I personally measure them myself um what I'll expain that in a minute but I go back to my recollection I was here for all the meetings I did all the presentations for all the reiterations of this plan um originally it was a faux balcony it was a balcony wrapped around the front and this the side of the house it was on both six and web web and it was not a deep balcony it was still four or five ft wide at the time uh and the intent was not to have a party out there but you know two three four people could walk around and go for room to ro through the balony uh it was a board's uh worry that it would be too many people on the balcony it be too big and it was Bor back to the intention that it would be 4x4 with the intention that really couldn't do anything but stand out there and that's what we designed I don't remember the outside dimensions being 4x4 I remember it being 4x4 be that as it's made 4x4 is 16 square ft the banies are close to that square footage and from just from a a usable point I don't think there's going to be more I don't think think just my opinion I don't think there would be more than one person on that balcony at a time or the person that would be in front of the door at a jealousy type Romo jul Bal it's not way you can step on you go right to the edge of the building I think aesthetically I think the balconies look very nice on was porch actually think it was a good idea not to make it a full back I think just having these two small boxes 6 by3 6 by whatever that number is looks good I think the scale wise with the height of the wall versus the height of the rallying versus height of the standing State move I think it all works together very nicely and I I honestly think it's a good-look solution I was not involved in changing the size of balconies I was asked the question could we put St door doors on these doors I said yes it would makes sense probably on where you are but not realizing that would lead into the balony changing in size maybe if someone asked me I might have said we should get this approved but even stepping back Monday Morning Quarterback you can say that but stepping back to me I don't think that's a big enough change to Warrant it because we are not in a starring District where every actual line is looked at to be exactly how it's life so um I understand that the board is upset on things that happen overall project but I really don't think they did this intensely to have more people or people on the balcony I think they just did functionally and if you look at they actually pushed it back from 5T uh I think it actually helps because this we as we all know we're real tight to the street and to answer Donna's question if you look at the 2 for 10 Dimension that 2 for 10 on the new diagram that we did we only D everybody that the blue is what was assumed be approved for for inside the balcony and the green is what's actually built that two fend Dimension we show on this plan is from the turret it's not from the back of the house because that that's how you see this Bal in the street from the turret you only see it from the side of the house I I originally bought a piece of tape tape and a measure I want to put on the floor to show you when you put one of these chairs on that balcony you're really not sitting there comfortably but without the wall in front of you other thing to realize that possibly you could be a little bit comfortable you have ra going all the way down to the floor but we don't we have a wall that's in front of you so you have 12 in plus or minus of space that you can actually see out it or feel out it or put your hand through so you can put more of your body out there so again I think it's aesthetically in the Nature has been been approved um I feel bad that I wasn't asked at the time should we do anything but I think if I was at at the time I probably would said that it's pretty close enough maybe I would have said go back to the construction officer but I didn't think I'd have to go back to the board for a change of that magnitude and I was wrong by thinking that you know so big but I was not asked so I can't even a a judgment on that if I may from a legal standpoint you got to remember this isn't a setback so it makes a difference the location of it if this were not in the setback and you were talking about on the second floor where it wasn't a variance condition I don't know that the board has any say over that issue um but for for what it's worth it these are in the setbacks and and there were a lot of discussion about that at the original Hearing in 20122 the intrusion is less now than it was before in relationship to the setback it was further out than it is now so as far as but it's also wider than it than what do with with that has to do with this setback to it's that entire length of the property it's not just where these These are located it's the entire length of the property you have to admit that we're in that case we're aerating it in length but we're making it less in width yes exacerbating it in length exactly those are the words correct we're also making it less than with except that one aspect of the deviation is related to the structure and the other is its use right and so a balcony that is maybe shallower but longer has you know uh exacerbated the length but not the width or depth um but in its use if two people can now stand side by side when the intent was to only have one person be able to stand out on the balcony now you've also exacerbated the use aspect of the of the structure so I honestly think even though it is narrower depth right it is worse because it is longer right from the board's perspective and again this is what as mrman said it's a variant situation so the threshold for the positive criteria is what is the public benefit what is the public benefit the public benefit if we look at the overall picture of this job can't be the publicly benefit I'm I'm not a lawyer no no no yeah not ask neily answer it it's for theard to think that CU you've said it looks good as the architect you have a certain perspective on how you think what you think the impact is and what the benefit is the board has to focus on what what purpose of zoning is satisfied what is the public benefit and if you cannot find one it automatically fails the variance test we don't even go to stage two which is the negative criteria right because that's how we got to 4x4 foot BS in the first place right because of the positive right Mr s Mr call testified recently that discussion of enclosures normally doesn't go on your set of plans and it's something of an after effect uh and you said that the enclosures put that storm door was not something that you considered when you were doing your plans however I'm scar I don't even like so yeah so let me finish so so you're you're obviously a um professional you've been doing this for a very long time you're building a house that's three blocks off of the the ocean wouldn't it be a consideration at the time that you're doing the plans or at the very least the time that this board was having hours of testimony regarding these balconies that you would bring up and say these need an enclosure in addition to to just the door because of the location well I I didn't not bring up that they needed a additional storm door the doors that are on this house are rated to be on the water they're by anr I was asked the question do you think it's a good idea for additional protection and I said yes I don't think it could hurt not not thinking about the balcony and changing the size of balcon I I just told the question deal that was it I so it's so it's your opinion as as the architect that the the the door that is installed there is enough and a storm door is not used I don't know how to answer that but I think the stor door yes or no the storm door is an added benefit to the house that's what you just said the doors that are there are rated to be in a waterfront condition that's where the doors that in the house are ready to be and I've seen plenty of doors in a waterfront condition that have an additional door on top of it for area protection we've had some crazy storms these last couple of years and a Mone owner who has a house that's worth a million plus dollars and put a lot of money into an empty lot that was holding garbage he wanted do everything he wants to protect that so your so it's your opinion that that the the doors that are that are on the house are rated for the location of where the house is in relationship to the ocean yes okay thank you um any other questions on the balconies uh Mr Kenny do you want to have anything else for his testimony uh no not at this point but again respectfully reserve my right and I think my um notes I just want to talk about uh uh the fencing and the uh the turf so let's uh do our professionals have any questions for and can we also put the rail the railings on this conversation please yeah so my question is um [Applause] did you develop a design for the lattice on the roof that would have been uh know I use the word scalable but um hang lost my page TR here choice uh that would have satisfied um a screening system uh that would have been code compliant for um for that two sides of the of the hot tub area well again I I thought we did um I thought the that wasn't lers it wasn't L if we could have done another Louver type smaller louvers uh we did not uh we were not privy to the fact that they changed it to louvers uh but I have no problem I personally have no problem with the louvers also since the fact it's supposed to be Grainer on those WS so all the intent of that wall being an open wall was we were talked about Ivy being on that wall to be thick and gross it it look very nice from a distance like some of the hotels we have that have rooftop gardens and and bars uh I thought once that wall was full of ivory it didn't matter what it was behind it but it would be solid and it' be nice and it be growing and green so to me air on the ction of safety leave it as lers and ensure it's covered with grain and if we're worried about the seasonal aspect of grein I me I do plenty of work now on interiors that have beautiful exterior Greenery that's actually even more expensive than natural that looks you couldn't tell from 20 ft up in the air so my opinion there is you know what it's a lot safer it protects everybody it protects when it come when that idiot kid gets drunk which is not going to be any here older adults or whoever or someone jump jumps into this area that shouldn't be there and he decides to not sit in the hot tub but step on the side of the hot tub which you don't do normally normal people go in with their butt and turn it on an edge and go into the hot tub they don't stand on top of the hot tub unless there's something wrong with them so in case we have this person has something wrong with them and he start to stand I kind of like the idea of being um Lous and more more stable and more strong but I do I don't I do would like to see the green that we all talked about having and I think once the green is there that wall is going to be because it's against another wall there's no windows to look at the wall from the other gentleman's building and if the other gentleman was really concerned about it I kind of think he would have been here today to say hey look what they did but I think to the contrary he's very pleased with the whole outcome of this building and I know we're not talking about that now but I think I should we should say you know the the elephant in room this is a lot that overgrown grass garbage dog Dum all over the place and we now we have building I think you're getting beyond your your scope here so so but I just to follow up to Donna's question so the the lattice that you designed in the in the plans that were approved by this board in your opinion were within the the rules and regulations of the building code of Asbury Park they could be made to be within opinion yes I don't there was a set of plans appr by the building department that would have been after you guys that was a screening system um that resembled that lattice system but um was designed so that it would you know eliminate those concerns about scalability or or whatever um I believe the date on these is 4 1724 and it shows um that little angled section of railing um that Mr Paul had uh testified to and to and the uh but with the regular lattice design so just clarify that the angle we never had the angle that we didn't think that we needed that was brought up by the building officer that he wanted more protection to the Southside our original building department drawing the angle was not there that's right the original didn't this these are revised this is like six on this and one of those changes is that little angled section was added and I looked at it when I said it I would preer I preferred would have preferred to be straight and J kep on Val but it was already done at the time we didn't know about and Mr C just correct my memory you were not involved in the conversation with the town as far as the louvers and changing that from the approved plans I was not I do not believe my project marker was either we heard about it afterwards and we saw it and again again it didn't concern me because i' heard a company official and I knew there's going to be greeny on that wall and if it's solid Greenway supps to grow it's still the same thing so okay and there's an open roof so it's not there blocking any light so I think it works I I think it works securely better okay all right uh any members from the public have any questions regarding Mr saar's testimony here tonight seeing none thank you sir thank you oh Donna you have a question um I'm just trying to think of anything else architectural so screening the balconies [Applause] um windows out yeah so um Mr Kenedy are we going to have testimony about the change in Windows sure I wanted to or um I'm not seeing it necessarily I mean I don't I don't have a big problem with the windows they're not a you know planning concern of mine um so I'm not sure how the board feels yeah I think Mr K you could maybe have Mr saice just talk to the the change of the windows and the reasons behind so Bas there's two changes with the windows real real simply uh we showed a window knowing that it was going to be in the landing of the stair so put the outside of the elevation to the I always get a mixed up web 6th Avenue um be have a row of Windows it was decided by the Builder and by just having to do with and having why put a spal fake glass there so they took that window out I mean that window I I don't think it really affects the elevation that was one that was one that was taken out sure couldn't look nice without it it's all subject but there are plenty of Windows in this building this building I think looks very nice I think they did a good job building it and use quality materials the other windows that came out and made little smaller was the windows on the third floor and that came out of you know form follows function type thing is when the owner realized he had no place to put his TV and a couple other things that were in the way because again that all that stuff in that little box or that little bag as you quite temply say uh he decided to lessen a window on the front on the top play St windows and again I think in the overall scheme of things it looks very good it looks very close to what it was I think and we're not not below the the required fenestration we're still way above but okay open to masses on the okay anyone have any questions regarding the windows just another something else there was another decision that was made on the Run that's what it looks like to me I mean okay we we came in we agreed we changed our mind we're not going to discuss it with the people who gave us the variance and we're just going to do what we want to do anyway well the changing I'll step back and again I'm not a lawyer but the changing in the windows they they're in the same plane they were they're in the same row they were Le a little less glass than there is still has the same feel as it had in the original elevation and that's we're not doing anything a variant situation there that's at the right that setback at the right setback Mr sa just talk about to the extent you have't already fenestration and what that means and and how is is this structure as it stands today is the penetration adversely impacted adversely affected no it's not I mean uh it looks like there's a lot of lot of Windows there if you look at the plans the as buil is probably the best way to look at it compares the two [Applause] so sheet three or four um basically on the the web Street on the third floor it had a row of Windows on the top and now it has two windows in a place for TV in the middle I mean but to me that building above and below look at what was approved and what was built on web street is pretty much exactly the same from a bulk from a window from fin RAC s thank you very much okay thank you Mr Kennedy did uh Mr SE have any any involvement in the the yard material or the fencing or I don't think no okay uh Mr seice just real quick uh does anybody the public have any questions for Mr se's additional testimony seeing none thank you Mr Kennedy sure and um the last two items um are fencing and just for the record um I know last time there was some discussion about the measurements and and what the deviations were and again going to my opening point we didn't have surveys to show you what those uh definitively what those deviations were so the updated survey shows that the fence in the northeast corner of the property is basically uh 10.2 in off the property line so uh uh 12 in fence setback is required and 10.2 in exists so that's a deficiency of only I don't mean only but of 1.8 in and then that uh fence in the southern quarter uh the deficiency is 4 excuse me 4.2 Ines those are just the the definitive uh deficiencies um now just so you know that fence and post are there um initially I was under the impression that I said to my client hey just relocate the fence particularly since you're going to be having to take it down uh to put in the turf if if that is approved and it turns out that that is not um my client has spoken with the fencing by Carl's representative and the if if Turf is put down the fence and the post um they're incasing concrete and the fence post um they cannot be salvaged so we are respectfully requesting now that we those deviations that we are are respectfully requesting that the board authorize th those fence locations Mr Kenny do I I believe I remember something about the fence across the driveway is that that's higher than the than this fence correct was there an issue where we talked that that was extended too far past the driveway I for some reason I think the only issue with the fencing Donna correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the only issues with the fencing are the additional fencing that was added in the front and side well the two fronts on web and and um and six okay um are in the sepac okay those three foot high fences I think they are they're in the setback they're in the setback okay the other the other fencing is all compliant with the plans and what's allowed okay and for the record the permit permits were obtained but that that's a different uh point and then the other thing Mr uh chairman is about the uh yard material we've had a bunch of discussion about that and uh basically the um uh this was a just decided after again and I don't think there's any requirement that or any prohibition against putting Turf in but we uh applicants for a variety of reasons that he talked about last time wanted to put a Turf in and I believe the city does not have any prohibition against it although uh in my conversations with Michelle Alonzo she had indicated that um the city need some type of testimony and documentation as to the permeability to make sure that there's no issues and just as an aside um we initially were hoping to uh put Turf in the municipal right of way too we did send that letter we marked we talked about that and the city uh denied that request so what we're proposing is um to put uh Turf in the private yard area uh but uh natural or just regular GR grass in the municipal RightWay and we will have an engineer uh testify uh just very briefly about the permability controls he had spoken uh I was on the phone with them when we spoke with um the engineer from Insight uh prior board engineer um we've sent the details to the new engineers and I think the uh new Engineers it wasn't Mr Frida but I think they said there's no requirement um or no prohibition against it but the uh new board engineer had said he would not recommend that uh uh that the city allow Turf to be put in the in the right of way and that is ultimately what what the city decided and that's correct I wrote a letter to that point okay and you're the coverage is still at is still going to be at 99% with the turf I would I would defer that to my engineer okay okay I'm I'm good at the law Stu when you get m uh and you have the engine here tonight yes okay can I a question about the Turk um it's my recollection from the April meeting that the idea to not use natural grass and go with Turk is because you could not secure a lawn care company to come and cut the grass on a regular basis that was one of the reasons yes ma'am so has that been solved for the natural grass area that will be I think he's just going to have to deal with that somehow I mean we can ask him about that but I think that's why we were hoping that the city would allow it but we're just going to have to deal with that and we'll deal with [Applause] it excuse me if I may the reason why the city doesn't allow in the right way is because when we're doing Municipal work we have to take that synthetic terf up lot contractors don't know how to handle it it never gets put back properly it becomes a problem for pedestrians and other so that's the the biggest reason why it's not okay thanks J raise your hand state your name and business address please uh David Schmidt um business address 77 car's Place B New Jersey swear affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you okay and uh what is your profession uh I'm Dave Schmidt I am a professional engineer in the state of New Jersey I've been engineering since 1986 and started my own engineering business in 1996 and I've been working ever since on residential and site plans and Commercial uh throughout the state mainly Princeton Montgomery and Hillsboro and Franklin but I I was in front of this board for this application to start and I have done other jobs in in the shore areas but not as much and your licenses are current and up to date they are thank you Mr sh okay and are you familiar with this particular application I am familiar with and are you familiar with the uh the turf specifications uh yes I have and you're concern are you aware of the city's concerns regarding rightful concerns about uh permeability issues correct okay so I know you have some documents there that have been marked into the record but why don't you just just explain the process and explain how uh water water flows well water flows okay well we have the testing services that was done by uh testing services TSI which was provided and it gives you uh the inform for infiltration rate for the turf which is 92.3 in per hour um and in it's only a three-page document but then it goes into um how it's supposed to be incorporated and then I had information from kech which was a soil testing that we did for Jim Dunn back in the day 1117 2022 because we have a dryw uh that's situated in the back of the property as part of the storm water management for this job and the drywell infiltration rate is six 6 in per hour to 20 in per hour which is an incredible fast rate so your question is if if it rains and the turf is installable it's going to percolate right through the synthetic uh Fabric and it goes right into a gravel subbase and then it'll discharge right into the soil or or to the sand now you know that the 100-year storm event is 8.5 Ines per hour or 8.5 in per 24 hours and we here have 6 in per hour to 20 in per hour herobility we're pretty confident that this is going to drain straight down into the soil and and and not give you into a flooding situation um you know you also there is also you know concerns of you know what if you have regular lawn or or or you know what's what's out there now you have different types of lawn you have the pristine lawn which is the sad type of lawn that someone's going to water well that that infiltration rate is going to be pretty much the same as the turf because it's it's it's it doesn't have a runoff it absorbs the the the water coming down and it drains it straight down into the soil with the synthetic you got to remember we have a little bit more we have sand layer and then we have a gravel layer so we are allowing the water to really sink in as opposed to just your regular grass but again your side grass it's watered it's maintained it's fertilized it's a healthy lawn and typically in uh areas down at the beach I mean you have somebody that's really on on guard with this type of if you see it around this town there's someone out there making sure patrolling to make sure this this lawn stays protected I mean I've seen signs all over no dog on the on the property no no you know wedding on the property they are very Vigilant that they want the green grass so you have that type of people then you have the other type of people that just don't maintain it as much and the runoff is going to be a little bit more than the synthetic tur so because you have spotty areas and you have like eight and a half inch rainfall it's going to run and it's going to absorb into the soil but where the where the soil is is dirt it's not going to soak in as much and it's going to have a little runoff but it's you know again the synthetic has the sand and the gravel area and then you have someone that doesn't maintain the lawn at all and then you have maybe 50% grass seed or whatever and that would be the worst case and the synthetic turf turf is is a better solution so I've seen the turf in in in smaller with smaller Lots because it's just it's it's easier to maintain it stays green all the time and the new synthetic synthe sythetic Turf looks real it looks like a nice lawn as opposed to an astro turf it does have a pretty good look to it so you know the purpose of why he wants to do this is because he wants to be able to drive up and have a pristine um you know lawn without having to put all the effort in with the sprinkler system and and I got it just cuts the lawn for for five minutes basically because it's not much it's a it's a, 1500 feet of of lawn area that you has to maintain um which you know the synthe Synthetic Turf is coming a long way with different towns allowing it so I think it's a good idea I think he he's also thinking of doing uh Decorative Stone along the sidey yard which also has a great permeability um that that uh you know it's less maintenance it's on the west side I believe of the property um so he he has a combination of of turf and he has a combination of a Decorative Stone um you know put in area so it would be less maintenance and and then have a very nice visual appearance uh as a driveby and that's and that's what he what he plans on doing um we provided the engineer I believe it was uh Jal Freda details of how we put this stuff together how it's supposed to be installed and we also got a letter from him citing that he he seemed to be okay with it and that was letter dated April 26 2024 signed by Gerald J Freda so that's what I have on the on the turf as far as so we' been M Mr before we go to anything else so so what's what's your percentage of coverage then because you had it at 99 but that was before your testimony with regards to well it depends on what you considered coverage are you considering a permeable material coverage then you're going to be exactly what what uh your planner has come up with um if you're going to say that that the thf is is just like grass then we're back to what we had the original approval for which was 60.5 it's it's just a determination I mean the the the grass or the synthetic grass is allowing stuff in so why would you consider that aerious impervious material the point I made was that the spec provided to us for the grass was that it needed to be underlay by compacted DGA which is not permeable so as long as it's not underling by that and it's instead clean stone or something that Jerry says is permeable then it doesn't affect the impervious coverage calculation same thing with the Decorative Stone in the side yard the the soil tests the the soil data they gave us shows very high permeability me you know so I step all over your no no no you're fine you're fine it is good um there's nothing in your ordinance we could find it it says it can't be used on private property we look to find um I know I've worked with it before I've done a lot of reinstallations B fields that type of thing when it's built properly and the details that were submitt to us is proper and it's built that way it's very effective um it becomes it comes to really a u aesthetic issue it doesn't look I challenge anybody tell me it does it does um but it doesn't look uh intrusive or or bad it just different a little bit different okay well the board's concern is whether it's impervious surface or not right well I understand they don't I mean we care about how it looks excuse me they also want to know about about the site now all the roof water is piped underneath the okay not affected at all that's five so going forward if it's install problem and maintain you should problem okay what you mean not any problem what does that mean it's going to act just like grass there not going to be any issue just like anybody else's front yard so it's going to into a sub it was testified toine better with the DGA underlayment yes it's loose it's not DGA it's loose gra got be I'm telling you the specification we were given originally specifi DGA that's what my that's what my report was based on back in April if the underling is changed if the sub the subsurface is going to be different material that you determin to be permeable then then it doesn't affect the impervious coverage calculation why don't we do this Mr Schmidt yes can you testify to what the underlayment material is going to be for this it says it's quarter inch clean stone for the manufacturer and that's not D okay thank you quarter say that quarter inch quarter inch clean Stone clean Stone per manufacturer specifications for the manufacturer specifications yes that was provided to the engineer okay and there is there a thickness of the stall um yes yeah let's have for the record uh 4 in and how and you said there's also underlayment of um sand uh there is an underlining of sand if if required I wouldn't say it would be required because we're got a sand subbase so I would just go with the gravel synthetic layer Stone and then sand so if it helps the Board um when they prepare the surface before the stones put down if they call our office we can come out and do an inspection and make sure that the same okay I I I think we need to have that inspection to make sure it also meets the 4 in depth and all that as well right one I agree and and we certainly would agree as a condition of of approval if we get that far that uh we would install it and maintain it in accordance to manufacturing standards and before it's put down the city engineer uh would would be able to make sure inspect it to make sure that it is installed in accordance with the approved plans and in accordance with the testimony in accordance with any resolution we have okay thank you Mr K um Mr chair I do have one other question what is the actual limits is it inside defense can somebody tell us that I'm not sure um for the plan that was submitted to the board that was dated March 4th 2022 revised March 11 2024 it shows the limits in the front yard along the side and then it shows the deprea of stone on the west side so it's per this plan that was provided to the board so when you say front when you say front yard you're saying to the property line uh to the to the sidewalk yeah it would have to be it can't be in the RightWay so it can't be in the RightWay right so it would be to to the property line so is the fence on the property line no inside the property line the fence one portion of the fence is 10.2 in and the other portion is 7.8 in as it exists today and so how do you propose to B these in that Turf up to the natural grass up to the up to the sidewalker to the natural grass well we can remove the fence pickets and then do it but no but the back of the sidewalk isn't necessarily uh the edge of the RightWay the RightWay more than likely extends past the edge of the side it's well with well with in the right away so at some point in my mind I you were going to do it inside the fence and you know can you just come up Mr chairman may I bring him up to answer yeah for this question yeah we we can swear them in okay uh he was previously sworn okay but just uh Jim come on up and just state your name for the record it's a so just uh state your name uh James dun and you're the applicant correct SL owner correct and you're previously you previously sworn at until the last meeting correct correct and you recognize you're still under oath correct okay um so speaking with the the turf guy I'm only going to go to the fence um even though I can extend past that um I don't want to worry about 6 in here 4 in there the best line is to just use the fence and then with that uh Stone that he's going to put down he's going to leave a little strip of that past the turf I'll still be on my property line that's and then no rocks in the right away no I'll still be on my property line because I have the ability I'm not I have a buffer from the fence to my property line okay you follow me so you'll have an ed I'll have I'll have right I'll have an edge that the the side guy wants the edge the turf guy doesn't want a mower going over his grass so I have that little strip but because I have a Play Between the fence and the property line and I'm only turfing to the fence and by the way the pickets to the fence do not go all the way to the ground so it's going to be very easy for the turf to go right underneath the um right underneath the fence and then with this little Stone barrier and then we're we're good to go and about how wide you propose the stone barrier to be I the the minimal amount that I need to not mow over my turf and again I know I have how much play I kind of have with where the fence is as opposed to where the matching what you have yeah right exactly yes it's going to match that so I don't know it's a problem for you or not but I would recommend you make that a sizable I'm only 2 3 ft but something of size that will be able to hold up to the grass growing into it one I get you right right right right if you have a very narrow strip right you put some weeds in there yeah okay understood okay be at the correct correct yeah so for the record we have we have the turf going to the fence line then we're going to have a small stone stone and then grass regular grass in away and it's a permeable Stone transition it's going to be the same stone that I have on the western side of the house and that all the same base as the other Stone on the West Side assuming Jerry that I was that all the same base do we need to be do we need to be concerned about the base with that no because the Decorative Stone goes down it's fine okay it's all the deck of the stone is not the same as the stone that's being put underneath underne thank you would the board just a suggestion I'm going throw it out and I'm trying to cause a problem here but would Stone between the fence and the sidewalk be acceptable to the board Al so again the the city doesn't permit rocks Stone in the right of way so the part of the from the edge of the sidewalk to the property line is is right away so there's however many inches between the imaginary line of the property line and then those extra several inches to the fence um you know it's a lot of gray area there but yeah there' be that would be in the right away yeah it's going to be a very to your point it's going to be a very small strip of grass so there has to be I think it has to be grass I was just trying to get rid of that transition I know I I like it too but Michelle is admin about rocks in right yeah okay so it'll be is just a recap grass natural grass in the area between the Salk Cur natural grass from the sidewalk up to the fence or up to the stone right which I'm going to make as wide as I possibly can make it I got to keep I got to keep Michelle happy so I don't I don't want to go over that one but I I take your advice for sure and then the Synthetic Turf will be the rest of the life it's a lot going on in small area but correct okay sorry Mr K can you clarify I I'm sorry to go back to the fence but um what is the setback of the fence on six did you we get a dimension for for that side I thought it was i' I'd be get I think my setback on 6 is 25 ft no the fence oh the fence compared to the property line uh was it a 10.2 subject to the same thing as is that the 10.2 compared to 12 yeah so don't have Dimension Don it looks to me that was the 10.2 compared to what should have been 12 did your did your surveyor give you so I know you have the six to s in that's on web where what is the distance on six the updated survey shows the fence in the northeast corner 10.2 in off the property line and then in the southern corner on the northeast corner my notes uh suggest that it's uh uh 12 in fence setback is required and as it exists it's 10.2 in and what where is it in the nor West all right that's the southern 10 10.4 10.4 in the north oh sorry you said Northwest I'm looking I'm looking at the survey the survey that we referred to in the beginning of the hearing May 1 2024 it looks to me like it says the fence is half half a foot .5 ft from the property line on six and it's 8 5 ft from the property line on web yeah and I don't have that scale so I can't measure it that's what I so it's actually closer we say that again on the for 085 085 it says 085 yeah pointing for for web pointing towards web right and then it says 0.5 from the property line on Sixth yes so it's actually closer 6 in from 6th Avenue and whatever again Jeffrey it's 6 in from on um setback on Sixth Avenue on Sixth but I can't read anything in the second so that means that that transition Stone six right if the variance is approved he six over yeah he six over the six six all right so again I just wanted to try and better understand how the where the turf was going to stop where the fence is Where the Sidewalk is where the property line is um and I I couldn't find that dimension of where the fence is in relationship to the property line on six but it does look like it is 6 in off the property line not the one foot that is required so that's still and it's not close as the as the web so it's a larger deviation all right Mr Kenny do you do you want to just leave Mr Dunn here and Mr Smith and we can sure and I I don't um do you have anything further uh to say to offer so I defer to this with board in questions or public was there a discussion on the railings um the last time we were here some an issue with the railings they're being proposed to be removed oh the porch no right but that's because of the Comm no it wouldn't have any the Comm wouldn't have any effect cu the center line of the commum never changes I recall that the testimony said because you had to get the larger enclosure to the column that the porch railings were no longer no that wasn't my testimony um that was a board question that wasn't my testimony well could you explain uh the situation well you sure you don't want this one the call hasn't changed because right exactly where the 6 in by 6 in post never changes so where you wrap it won't have any effect on forward or backward okay what was your reasoning for removing the railings uh it wasn't it wasn't required by code and then because we were putting it we extended the fence instead and the main reason was which I provided a picture of is the skinny depth of that porch on web Street wouldn't really allow any furniture to be on there at all because you would have able to walk around it cuz I would have lost I think uh six something seven Ines by putting a railing up in the middle of the columns and then I wouldn't have been able to walk around any furniture that was there um and then since we were having a fence there was kind of a double barrier there that I didn't need okay um does that need a design waiver is that all right any other questions for Mr dun um um yes so [Music] um there are some items from my report that were not addressed in your response and are still um outstanding or I I don't feel like I have a solid answer one way or the other um Street trees are we doing the street trees on both web and sixth avenon correct I had uh Tom pavinski I believe is his name the chairman of the shet tree commission who also called out Robert banini who's the head of the DPW uh Tom called him out to make sure that the placement of the trees Tom picked out the type of trees Robert be and cheny decided with Tom where they were to go so don't quote me I think they're flowering dog Woods or boxwoods or something okay but they they're there that's only on Sixth Avenue though what about when well they PL they planted a tree on web where Tom Pinsky and Robert banini ass and it unfortunately has passed away and so we need to replace it so they just said one on web one on web two on six and that was determined by Tom pavinski and well not really Robert banin he just decided where he wanted them to go Robert B and chinii did not want any of them between the sidewalk and the curb because of the power lines overhead and trees growing up in there however he had no choice on web because I I had no place to put them yeah I I see the ones on six they're all the way that's in board fire your fence rather than out coming out that was determined by DPW by Robert banini who was on site I was there that day so that's not secondary there's two Street trees that have been installed on the Sixth Avenue Frontage and apparently yes they're dogwoods and they're in the they're in the city right way they're they're in the right way but they're in Board of the sidewalk instead of between the sidewalk and the curb where all the other Street trees are so they're not in the green they're not in the green strip they're on on the property side of the sidewalk correct yeah I saw them today and do you have any Communications from DPW or he was there no do you have any written Communications where they they pointed out exactly where the tree should be actually um I'm I'm not sure but Tom Pinsky can testify to it Tom Pinsky was there Robert banini from the DPW was there my landscaper was there and I was trees no no no I had to buy the trees Tom just decided they told you to get dogwoods correct flowering dogwoods or whatever they're call this is odd well yeah again I sit on the environment and sha tree commission with Tomy I I I yeah I can follow up with of course but all right so I just wanted to make sure again the plan didn't show the street trees there requirement Street trees apparently there's something going on with Street trees I'm going to with I'm going to say there's no exception needed there it's happening is it is it is it appropriate for me to follow up on this individually and report back can we uh can we make it Port of well I think the afan testified that he's he's complying or has complied with Street requirements so as long as that's accurate right then we don't have anything to say about it but but he made a representation that that's the case but you can definitely follow up and there's an issue we're we come here in good faith yeah this is a more of a c policy thing that yeah yeah they were both on site at the same time Tom Tom that but it's just it something sounds OD it wouldn't be between the curb and the sidewalk it could have been some other issues who knows but we we have an approval if we're fortunate we will definitely work in good faith with City and and board officials on that issue clarify it's not that they're not happening they are happening it's just they're in strange locations there is a utility I'm sure there's a reason oh there's a huge power line and uh telephone lines with a you know surplus wire all spooled up on the web Street side it's right you know absolutely horrible to try and stick a tree on that Frontage I I admit okay and you think it's a dog the they look like dogs they are dogs they are yeah and they're full full fall color at the moment um we don't plant dog Woods in Street Tre so no it we asked for crepe myrtles for the record my landscape ask for crep mertles I was to not yeah we don't do yeah I don't I don't really care I let I let Tom Pinsky tell me what to do they Scorch and uh but they do have gator bags and we do have to replace the one on web so obviously whatever the but as far as how are they are they being provided they're being provided um my next question is lighting because this was a condition uh previously it was not noted as any changes on the asbo plans we got but you know our site inspections indicate that there is a lot more light uh that is probably not compliant with the the ordinance requirements um there's spotlights on the west side of the house that are pointing at the neighbor's house there's uh lights in the saet on the in the tower third floor area that I have no idea what their um color temperature hook handle spread into the right of way might be um and and those were not you know we didn't get any information about lighting well those those lights are those lights are on the plan one thing just Mr chairman when I qualified Mr um done I testified applicant and owner and and just for the record he does have some lighting experience I just put his credentials on the record so Jim just I don't know if we got into this last time but State what your credentials did I'm an electrical engineer I'm also a lead accredited professional I hold a lead AP um 38 years in electrical distribution and Lighting and where do you work wor our electric supply where I'm the Executive Vice President okay so you when it comes to lighting you're familiar with I would hope I would hope I am I I feed my family with liting so why don't you uh Donna has raised some concerns about uh lighting and okay want do you have some information well I'll answer Donna's question so Donna what are your questions I'd be happy to answer well so condition 13 of the original improving resolution was that all exterior lighting be Inward and downward dark spe compliance not extend or spill over onto neighboring properties correct and not require any deviations or variances from ordinances for exterior lighting requirements and limitations correct a note shall be placed on the plans to conform confirm this condition so we do not receive a lighting plan as part of this amended application so I have no detail specifications anything about what the lighting is but when I go there I can see uh and it it might be in some of the photographs I'm not sure uh could move the power PL again I think there's a wall pack on the front porch on the web Street side that faces web street that is not downward Focus um there like I said there's two spotlights on the west facade uh that are pointing at the neighbor's house um there are uh how many are there uh there's a bunch of these recess cans like I said in that uh soet of the tower 1 2 3 4 5 six um which uh at night really light the place up um so that's still an outstanding item I don't know how to assess except for you know based on what I've seen it appears that the spotlight [Music] are not compliant okay Mr dun can you talk a little bit to the the spotlights and are they adjustable to to have them more um or I should say from stopping to bleed over into the other properties fixed well as first off the the S lights that I have in my house are all 2 in where a standard uh recess can outside would be 6 in minor two uh everything in my house is LED and led as a nature is is a very directional light so if you have a recessed can anywhere in your house whether it's inside or out light by physics cannot bend it can't go straight out it can only go down LED light is extremely directional much more directional than it canest in H hallogen or High Press sodium all my lights are 2 in all my lights are LED all my lights Point straight down including the ones on the side of my house um all of my lights are dark sky compliant I I'll have pictures to show you all my lights are dark sky compliant they're all RAB and they're all listed dark sky compliant including my recess lights all of my lights are 2700 Kelvin and I have the receipts and the proof of what I bought and when I bought them so every single light at my house is outside my house is 2700 Kelvin um be clear though that Lumen and color temperature are mutually exclusive they have absolutely no relation I have a that's why we regulate both those things right so um by the way my my lights are 8 watts the 2 in are eight so if you think about a 2in LED recess light it is extremely directional it can't point out it can't point up when you take pictures of a light source with a standard iPhone there's that light flare they call that you take a picture of the sun it looks enormous because the lens gets deflected I have pictures of the lights on my house um I'd be happy to show you the lights that Don is questioning I'd be happy to show you the receipt from my own company if I could if we are fortunate to get the approval um Donna I think if I don't want to speak for my friend Donna I think she's asking for a lighting plan to confirm that all the things in conjunction with the the the prior approval but I think they all we have a PL on our original drawing so that hasn't been deviated from okay I do not have one we will submit one to you you we're okay with that we can submit Mr dun the spotlights are those adjustables I I know you've got the cans but are the spotlights adjustabl so they're not well the recess the recess does not she's talking about the spotlights on the side of my house right um which I know have to maybe submit they're red dark sky light that's how point right there if you take a picture of like it looks like it's flaring at me but that's the those are the two motion spotlights are they adjustable if if well I I can point there I don't know if they'll go any further down than this to be honest with you but I guess I could Point them a little bit more down but that's okay thank you and there's one on each corner of that western side of the house but it is shown on the original Dr has been twoed spotl all right and I think the other thing Donna's other question about foot candles I mean there's a heat map I can show you on these lights you get a 2in LED recessed and it's almost going to basically Point down um light throw in order to measure foot candles at a property line you got to turn all the other lights off in the neighborhood you got to turn your street lights off you got to turn your neighbor lights off but there's just no way with the heat map that I can show from my recess lights that I come anywhere near my property line with that they're 2 in recess and um dark sky compliant R spots on the side Mr G you said you're you're you would be agreeable to submitting the plans again for review yes pending any well Mike Mike has the lighting I know but it's sort of hard for Donna to review this officially right now we confirmed that what I have with the same date we have the same date okay so what that but also my set of plans do not show the tower lights yeah [Applause] Mike so Jim the question is if in conjunction with a potential approval of these modified plan we'll get an up-to-date lighting plan yeah I think if we can that right that complies with the Jim we're going to if if we are fortunate to get an approval submit an up-to-date lighting plan correct yes correct good okay that's only fair um I just want Oh Donna sorry did you have anything else in your report that you wanted to lighting um Street Tre that another quick scan here we know with your cious uh confirm the fence on [Music] six I I think that's it good okay Mr I do want to go back to the roof decking again so the size of the hot tub was increased correct uh correct 8 by 8 to 8 X2 the height the height did not change okay by increasing the size of the hot tub did it increase the length of the Privacy uh what are we calling them it's not lattice anymore Louver louvers to the 17 ft that is now on the it West's side I would think so but that's a question really for Chris um but I would think 8 by 8 and I'm not sure what those conversations well Mr loo but I would I would assume that that more of that Gap was covered which would of the increased length of right which would create more privacy for that neighbor right behind me those existing benches that were there Mr call why don't you oh yeah that's true too there were benches that way there anyway that's true so Mr call just identify yourself for the record again Chris call okay and answer the question please so the question was tell went from the 8 to the 12 in that area there was originally bench benches there so it would have required the same sort of a different height but it still would have required system so the plans went from a square right oriented to the southwest corner right to a rectangle in the southwest corner oriented East West right to a rectangle oriented north south but that larger one so um I don't know that it's the area of the the length of the lver necessarily lengthened it's just where the hot tub moved um because they always had some sort of seating along that wall yeah that's true even in the original okay Square they were seating along the wall between the hot tub and the end of the building okay and then they did make the roof deck actually smaller than the original original PL okay thanks T if if I could just add to um Chris's testimony um we do we do have in writing from Steve lasaka that he dictated the height so that we do have in writing that when when Donna said that the height did change and Steve put in writing that was dictated by me um not you not by him by Steve um and that's been submitted as evidence yeah that's that's part of our packet okay yeah um and he actually said he actually said uh that he gave me a copy of an email he sent to the board is what he gave to me and said that the that Jim here's the email that I'm sending to the board explaining why the height of the wall changed and we have that as part of our packet that email all right Mr that was submitted as part of this packet if look at page 4 or4 clarify everybody see this put it you see the back West Side yes one piece of lce and now it's two pieces of lver on the front on the side of the Southside it was one piece of lce and now we made extended diagonal still one piece of L but we haded that diagonal exended so I just want to clarify email went to the zoning department not to the zoning board um and that was April 19th 2024 okay thank you okay uh does anybody else have any questions for Mr dun could I just also make another comment about the um slatwall versus the lattice I I was perfectly fine with lattice uh when we designed it I distinctly remember Chris calling me up and saying you know we have a problem he said it to me twice during the construction Believe It or Not only twice one was when you said we had to go to 5A construction with 1 hour fire rating he said J that's going to cost you a lot of money to you know put fire rated plywood on the outside of your house double the drywall on the inside it's going to you know make a lot of sofits had of change and all this other stuff but I said to Chris I said well we got the plans approved we all approved them and I said why don't I fight that cuz that was a lot of money to do that and I said we all agreed we were good with it and Chris said to me listen as we because this happened early on in the process Chris said listen at the end of the day we can say we approved it we can say you approved it we can say you approved it Steve oako doesn't give you that approval we're going nowhere so he goes you can't fight this the you know the authority having jurisdiction is the is the final say so he said Jim don't bother fighting it we're got to make it 5a1 hour fire rated construction and you got to budget a lot more money to do that and then when it came to the roof deck same thing happened I said well I want lattice and I and he said Jim just like I told you before you can fight it but if the man's not going to approve it it doesn't matter what the plant say it doesn't matter what the approval was if Steve laso says it's and by the way that slatwall was way more expensive custom you know guy doing all this junk and and I'm like Chris said Jim don't even bother you can't fight it because Steve Lako doesn't approve it you got you got to give him what he approved and I said well you know how do we know and he goes oh I sent him a sample he approved the sample we're putting exactly where he wants it as high as he wants it he said Let It Go you can't you can't beat the ahj okay and so I didn't want you to think that you know we were doing anything I would love that slatwall or all that stuff not slatwall the lattice is fine with me okay and i' put lce back quite frankly if you wanted me to I know one of the questions was Mr dun are you willing to put lattice back there I I I am very very nervous about my liability doing that we are on the record saying that this might be a safety concern I remember when I first testified to it that you had made a comment that you're on a a UCC uh board and you said Mr Dunn's testimony is correct you can't have something that's scalable around a pool so we on record is saying this might be a safety issue and if I have a neighbor's kid who goes up there and gets hurt and then you know my neighbors say hey we know that was a safety issue but they made Mr dun do it again I'd just be worried about but I will do it I would absolutely put lattice back up there if that's what you prefer all right thank you Mr D I appreciate it um anybody else have any other questions from Mr Don I have one question yes um I'd like to talk about the fence you made a comment just a little bit ago um Wendy can you just talk a little bit close I can't hear you I have you made a comment is this on now or not I I can now it's on yeah okay sorry you had made a comment about your fence when we were talking about the grass and the artificial turf and where it all meets up that the fencing itself not the posts but the fencing itself does not extend to the ground correct okay if you were to have to move the fence to meet the setback requirement you would be losing the posts the concrete has to get dug up right but you can reuse the fencing itself just not the posts is that correct not according to Carl's fence he said if he had to dig all that up it's not all that um sturdy I don't know a better word for it or thick is probably a better word for it he says if I have to rip up 32 post you're going to lose your fence and you just have to replace it with a new fence and that came from Carl's fence part of the problem is right the fence section has so many pickets a certain spacing so if it's got a even a few inches one way or the other screws up the the whole section right I understand I just wanted to to clarify whether there was I did ask that question for sure thank you y um any members in the public have any questions for Mr Dunn regarding his testimony seeing none you know while we're asking that any members have any questions for Mr Schmidt the engineer our engineer the engineer any engineering questions and do any members have any questions for the contractor at at the end at the end we're getting there and does any member have any questions of Mr re's additional testimony okay thank you thanks je I got to keep it all track Mr chairman subject to uh ultimately a summation and public comment I respectfully rest thank you Mr Kennedy uh now members of the public you have an opportunity to make any comments ask any questions it's not limited to any one witness's testimony please step to the microphone state your name your address and you have three minutes but I don't think we have a a timer I'm Ben Hall 3076 hold on a yeah if you don't mind you said Ben wall Hall h l l h l l 3076 Avenue and Mr Hall you swear affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do all right once Donna has the timer ready we you your 3 minutes will start is it easier to do his timer or stopwatch yeah stopwatch stopwatch okay go uh I've lived across the street from the property in question for 6 and a half years and my house is within 200 feet of this site I had the pleasure of meeting the duns recently and I'm glad to welcome them to the neighborhood I take no issue whatsoever with their new home whether as approved or as built and I think it's a wonderful addition to our block I believe the deviations from the approved plans being scrutinized here today are extremely minor and have no negative impact on the neighborhood specifically or the City generally I've come here tonight to urge you to grant them variance relief for the structure as it stands today and let them move on with their new life here in as great F thank you thank you sir Gloria Paretti 305 6th Avenue Miss Paretti can you spell your name please P ISM Peter e r r e t t TI and if you can raise your hand you swear or affirm that your the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth I do all right you ready okay um I have looked at a vacant lot for approximately 13 years since I owned my house it is directly across the street from the duns there used to be garbage and dog manure and all kinds of um un oh yes cars blasting with music and it was really an a Very unsightly uh piece of property uh I am so happy that Kathleen and Jim have invested so much money in beautiful design home um kind of looks like a lighthouse if you that's my perspective it's very very beautiful design um I think it's an improvement I think it has added to our block um and I am very happy that uh they decided to improve that lot because it was very much an eyesore um the scrutiny that is being given uh being required here on this uh variance approval uh I don't know but um it see I know that you want everything to go to to follow the plans however it seems very minute compared to what was there before and hate to say this but the two adjacent houses right next door they need to be scrutinized a little more closely than this beautiful brand new house um anyway that's uh welcome Jim and Kathleen and uh thank you for investing in Asbury that's it thank you Frank kinata 209 6th Avenue kinata c u c i n o TTA a you said 309 2 209 209 you you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you okay so uh I live caddy corner to the house that the dun own and uh I guess from from my from my point of view the balconies don't seem to be that different and I understand the point of view that you they're not supposed to be standing out there but uh you know 3 feet versus 2.2t 10 in just doesn't seem to be invasive this way which is going to block people's view this way so it's not blocking view it's not blocking air flow any more than the 4x4 that's just my just my view from across the street just just my thought uh the other thing is the the neighbors to the right of them them on web Street they've got two stories of balcony they've got a porch that goes deeper and wider they also have a balcony that goes deeper and wider so I just don't understand why he they get the scrutiny and the other property doesn't so that just seems in congruous um and I agree with the previous people saying that it was an empty lot before you know it wasn't generating much in the way tax dollars he's invested a lot of money they've invested a lot of money there's a lot of tax dollars that are coming into the city for not only for the city but also for the school board and finally one of the other concerns I have were just one of the things I'd like to see going forward is this level of scrutiny being applied to the developers at uh 200 uh 6th Street when that comes up thank you thank you hi um my name is Gabriela kuchan Frank's wife I'm at 2096 Avenue um so I before you testify I just have to swear you do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth it is yes thank you um so I actually have nothing written um I also agree with the comments um the property previously we would have fireworks going off um there was nobody scrutinizing it at that point there were car is parked all at all hours um so this is a great Improvement the lighting is not a problem the lighting we look at every night it is very discreet lighting it does not it's not bright if anything it would be an improvement to have lighting I can't tell you how many times Frank has called the city because the street lights aren't aren't working and it is such a dark block so actually I pref some light on that street because there is none and it's a little scary once you you leave North Beach The Columns I don't even get why you are concerned about the columns it makes no sense I have to ask the board what is your problem with a column being t or 8 in there are columns all different sizes throughout the city the gravel there is the the next property two properties down on web their whole front lawn is ugly gray stone not Stone ugly brav Stone there are there are ugly fences all over the city go down 4th Avenue that are chain L fences ugly fences that are high that that are somehow allowed because they were grandfathered in although probably never checked right so so here we have a lovely property with a low fence that's not impeding anybody's view that you understand that if you were living there because I see people walking by they're they're practically on the sidewalk that gives them a little bit of privacy if you were living there you would want that to I think that that there's not that many people who would be willing to invest this much money into a property of that size at that location and I think the cities should be very very grateful for them for improving that that that piece of property and I would hope that you grant them a bit of understanding and a little bit of leeway given the fact that that they built a beautiful building and really for the most part really complied with what what was sign thank you thank you any other members from the public no obje noted thank you all right discussion and Mr chairman if you want I can do my summation now I and promis it'll be less than 45 seconds go ahead did did but Donna can't time that uh so so listen I I very much appreciate um the time and attention you you've given to this and and it deserves to be given that attention and I think uh Donna had as as a planner raised some important discussions about hey you know are you satisfying any variance standards to the extent that any new variances are necessary but let's look at those standards some of those standards as we all know the flexible C2 standards do the benefits outweigh the detriment and I think there's a lot of reasons here um clearly there's aesthetic and Architectural Beauty and I think the the pictures show that and the um I think in one of Donna's review memos she basically talked about the need to have any development be consistent and complimentary to the neighborhood and uh talk she talked about rightly the need to preserve and enhance the neighborhood and preserve the neighborhood characteristics and I think respectfully we've done that and I think the picture show that and I think some of the uh we never want to stand out in a bad way and I don't think we over tax or stand out and I think if you looked at some of those pictures again it's a different application different site I don't know if it was approved or grandfathered but there's a a much more imposing uh balcony uh and all I'm saying is that we're not um standing standing out uh also uh we do submit that it fits in with the neighborhood we had some testimony and some pictures about the windows and the fenestration and the presence and that the fation is not compromised we talked about uh Donal made reference to some of the municipal land use law purposes and I think some of the testimony was that uh you know one of the main purposes is are you creating a desirable visual environment we think we are another U main purpose is you know is this an appropriate space for residential use and we think it is um it's a challenging lot and that's why we had the testimony that we did from the first hearing several years ago but I do think respectfully that the benefits outweigh the detriments in the grand scheme and again I can tell the board is concerned with the balconies and uh I appreciate that and I think in terms of that balancing test yes um it is slightly wider but it's also slightly 14 in less deep so I'm I'm I'm hoping that that there's some type of compromise there that that on on the balance and also um I would respectfully submit that the nature of these changes again we're sorry that we're here in this position but the nature of the changes I would submit based upon the testimony and evidence presented don't materially violate the Spirit or intent of the uh initial approval and I'm getting close to my 45 seconds but I'm going to say that uh some of the conditions that we've talked about are helpful and beneficial we've talked about first of all for the record all the things that we talked about tonight in terms of any commitment promise representation we made we know our conditions of approval we talked about um well I think implied uh Mr chairman as a condition would be no further deviations absent formal approval of the board and also what we didn't say was if if that with regard to that fences we're looking for the Practical reasons to keep the fences there um but we would obviously if those fences came down and were replaced in due course we would obviously have them uh in compliant locations absent uh for the board board approval uh we also note that there's no public objections and I know some members of the public spoke about um why such scrutiny and um at the risk of arguing against my client I know that scrutiny is what this board is about and should be about I appreciate that the point is the lesson has been learned and uh we will submit an updated lighting plan uh and we will uh submit uh all the turf specifications and confirmations and certifications that we need so based upon that it's been a long uh time here like I said the lesson has been learned uh I would respectfully suggest that uh you approve the application with the requested modifications that we have and I uh thank you all and the professionals for for the time thank you Mr kedy um I'll start so without rehashing all the reasons why we're here right um obviously the myself and I think most members on the board do not like to be put in this situation agre I'm sure you do not like people put in this situation so uh I think we're all in agreement there for me there's two things it's the balcony and it's the screen on the roof um I I understand that there was a bigger hot tub I understand that the height of the hot tub would have been the same and potentially the Western screening wall would have been the same length um my concern is just that we had approved plants uh and they were changed and it doesn't seem to be that there was communication that was submitted to the board where we could say definitively someone at at City Hall uh gave Direction with regards to that um with regards to the balcony I completely understand what you're saying is that you you've made them um less you made them narrower but they longer I understand the square footage um but again there was a lot of discussion about the balconies during previous hearings um I think I would like to see although walls can be removed I think I would I would like to see some type of structure built in there um but again knowing that that can be removed uh I think the other issues after the testimony from tonight uh myself uh I'm I'm I don't have any other additional comments with regards to those so I I'll leave it to my fellow board members what the don't I like you sh I have to go to Frank Big 12 men shop see if they got that oh it's all right um um I thought it that's okay um one being 72 years old and being a lifelong resident of this area um you come to my town you respect my town okay I'm not saying you disrespected us but having sat on this board for maybe seven years now twice a month it is our duty not just to protect your block but to protect this entire city okay so that's why we are the way we are we're not being hard but we are being fell I agree in reference to the lers I think they're ugly okay I compare them to those tanks I see riding up and down the street all the time it seem to be quite popular and I think that the other the other the other design would be much more W be better looking for the neighborhood also in reference to the um Juliet Balcony I actually spent time riding around with my wife showing her what Juliet Balcony were and she was down to actually picking doors out and I was like okay next thing I know she'll want one okay so if I have to pay for one I'm going call you okay but I do prefer the junior balcony over top of the larger balcony okay I don't think we're asking for major changes and we do welcome you to Asbury Park but we have a responsibility to keep asber Park beautiful city and to not let the Wild Wild West come in and have people do as they please okay those are the only two reservations I have other than that you explained everything else and I clud you for doing that thank you go right ahead I I I share the concerns about the balcony and and I'll talk about it in a moment um as well as the lubers um and at a minimum I would need to see uh Greenery uh added to that I understand the Str that you're the tension and struggle that you're facing um with the construction department on what may or may not be scalable uh and what restrictions but but there should have been a resolution my and my my bigger problem putting this all in context is that we had these series of changes one after another after another and with all the professionals involved and all the time it confounds me that no one ever thought to go into the zoning office and say look do we need to do anything with all with all of the changes we don't think they're major we all we think they're all small things shouldn't bother anybody um but that's not how and and I think you know your professionals know that's not how the process works and that that wasn't what um was to be expected so saying this is minor that's minor you can live with it we learned our lesson I don't know what learning our lesson um means and it's um you can't just walk away from these things expect no consequences from them so as to the balconies my personal view is that those Juliet balconies were important issues um from setback uh for privacy uh in the neighborhood whether or not there are any of these neighbors here that have an objection to them um was very clear there was a lot of discussion about this and the purpose of of the Juliet balconies was made clear during the the prior hearings um personally I think that these should be changed and put back to Juliet B whether or not you have doors um not my concern it really isn't I I feel very strongly about about the balconies um I think that the the protection on the on the rooftop um can be achieved um and then the last thing that concerns me is the fencing it is now that area um is a little claustrophobic because of this small size theot and the extent to which it has been built on um even few inches make a difference as people Traverse those streets and in the summer it's a busy area you're right at the waterfront um and we know certain times of year it's going to be extraordinarily busy um so I don't see that you have proven or you are satisfied your burden that there is a benefit to the public for these additional deviations I think that we in our approval of this application under the terms of the original resolution we accepted um the benefit to the public in in approving it and what has been built goes beyond that and I personally don't see on those three items um that you satisfied your burden for what is really an additional exception this has been very frustrating as we all know um I appreciate all the neighbors getting up and talking one of the things I think you guys probably aren't aware of is this property has been before this board for years we had an initial yes with the same architect that architect sitting right there went through the whole first time with us this is an undersized lot we've spent countless hours scrutinizing every detail with both applicants being unbelievably clear about what we approved and what we didn't and what we got back a year later was you know what a little bit like the Wild Wild West yeah are we scrutinizing little details yes because what we were presented was not what was built and it's really really frustrating for those of us who sit up here we're all residents we're volunteering our time 3 hours just tonight we're not getting paid for this we're we're neighbors as well but if you could understand the totality and the time and the detail that we have gone over this property and this structure I think you would understand that maybe we're not just splitting hairs because we feel like it there's a reason why we have to do what we do we don't know about the property next door we don't know when that was built we don't know if that was built with a permit there was a time here in Asbury Park for 20 years where people didn't pull permits for anything so you can't really compare this property to the one next door it's not our job I don't necessarily have a problem with the louvers on the top I actually think it kind of ties in to the metal roof um I didn't like the height but now that I understand that Steve required that I don't think there's really much we can do about that um I agree with my colleagues about the balconies I don't know that I would go as far as to suggest that we redesign them but I'll I'll stand with you guys on that um personally I would I would love to see the the railings come back and the and the fence be gone so it just kind of this house has so many different architectural elements and design languages going on at once I would love for it to sort of tie back into the rest of the neighborhood and the design elements that are in this neighborhood but again if it's not code we can't require them to put the railings in um so you know I'm super frustrated with this I think it's such a missed opportunity such a beautiful piece of property that um it didn't need to go down this way it really didn't um but uh I I no I I don't know that there's anything that I would necessarily ask for um uh just a few comments I think that the Louver system is a much safer um option for the property I think that that's clear I think that um it's not just about people climbing and jumping off buildings which I think is an unfortunate comment and example to bring up but it's also about people Hing around and climbing up and falling in back in um and so I think it's a safety thing and I'm very happy to see that it's changed I would like to see The Greenery component that was a part of the prior application approval back in play because I think that that will add more to the environment and help the adjacent neighbor have a better experience I would also like to see the updating lighning plan it sounds like it was there if we're missing two spotlights let's just get it official and make sure that it's all ready to go and people can be happy about that I think that's an easy win um in terms of the balconies I would not go as far to ask for any uh augmentation or design plans I think that overall the property adds a nice Improvement to the city I walk by it every single day and I'm glad to hear that the neighbors uh that have chosen to be here are voice in support for it so I will make a motion to approve um Jeff do you want to go through the the list so I think for I'll go through my notes and you can see okay so for the roof screening The Greenery is added um for the turf provided that uh Jerry's team is able to provide an inspection and approval for the base lighting plan is submitted for Donna's review um trees that we get confirmation from the uh the shade tree permission that that there is just one on web uh and the type of trees especially if the one has to be short replaced I would like to see the balconies with some type of inner wall again knowing that that could be removed um Jee was there anything else that we talked about on your list sure so uh just to be clear on the specific ations about the um Turf cannot be DGA or I'm sorry dja that right can cannot be cannot be uh quarter inch clean Stone part the manufacturers specifications 3/4 I thought it was quarter inch it's in it's in the plan I believe I believe the testimony was quarter inch clean Stone part the manufacturer specifications at 4in depth has to be inspected um to determine whether sand is also required before uh as as part of the base um and also to inspect to make sure that the 4-in depth is complied with um the limit of the turf was agreed or testified to be up to the 3ft fences never into the RightWay there'll be a permeable Stone barrier or transition from the fence to the property line which shall not be in the right of way and there will be national grass in the RightWay to um the stone transition and then Jak can we add that if that they'll that uh Mr Kennedy will will add in there that his his client will not deviate from this new Amendment without coming back to the board and can we add that yeah we we can certainly add that uh in general we have a catch all phrase in our in our resolution that says any deviations from this plan shall require the applicant to come back before for the board um but I always caution the board is those deviations if it's a deviation that is a zoning issue they have to come back to the board right if it's a deviation that is not necessarily a zoning issue or a condition of the resolution right it's possible they may not have to come back before this board all right um Street Tre will be installed as required uh and approved by the city officials including uh replacement of the deceased tree up to date lighting plan to confirm compliance with res the original resolution condition number 13 um and the 3ft fence to be clear it's 6 in uh from the property line on 6th Avenue and 10.2 in from the property line on web Avenue and I'm sorry uh three foot fence 6 in from it's 6 in from it's as existing it's 6 in from the property line on six got it and 10.2 in thank you on web where 12 Ines are required got it um and that um that is acceptable those are my comments [Applause] okay so we have a motion to approve with those conditions CHF can I can I ask a question and tell me if I'm out of order but uh since there's just confirm is since there's five of us here does it have to be all five or there's just four it's a majority thank you second okay I need my roll call yeah we call I'm not usually I don't usually do this part you're doing a great job um Wendy Glassman no regretfully I vote no because there'll be no change to the balconies Mr Harris no Mr Lewis yes Miss pasini yes and vice chair Scully yes the vote passes three to two ladies and gentlemen thank you for those who voted for it and those who voted I understand your concern I appreciate your time on behalf of my client we thank you and we will do right for you thank you Mr K uh motion uh make motion to adjourn second