generator up and running okay we're good ready all right uh I am calling the meeting to order uh today which is March 12th at 6 would you please stand and uh councilwoman Lambert will lead the flight I plan to lead to the flag of the United States of America toic stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all person to the New Jersey open public meetings act adequate and electronic notice of this meeting has been provided by posting on the bulletin board in the Beach Haven municipal building on the burrow website and mailing the same to the beach Haven times the Asbury Park Press and the Press of Atlantic City Mrs B Miller here miss Lambert here Mr mcaffrey here miss Snider here mayor Davis here uh we have a presentation this evening Colleen did you want to U um yeah just to preface this briefly um Dr Bob Stern who is the head of save LBI is also a Beach Haven resident who has been very kind in uh keeping us surprised of all things turbine and uh some new developments came up I guess they're not real new because councilwoman ball Miller and Bob Stern have been working uh with bone the Bureau of ocean Energy Management on different uh subjects relating to the turbines and the historic district and historic buildings were part of that and uh they submitted their thoughts and everything to Bo and unfortunately they came back with not the answer we were hoping for and uh Dr Stern kindly agreed to come on and explain what happened and what our possible options are so Dr Stern Thank you very much for being with us again tonight I know I know he's on there Bob are you okay I I got it unmuted greaty hey um nice to be with you all I um I'm suffering down here in Florida for a while but I will be back soon and uh hope to get uh more involved uh as as Colleen mentioned uh all all I've been doing with regard to this issue is is working with Jamie Bal Miller we' we've just been following one specific law as it relates uh to our historic properties uh in in the town uh that law is the National Historic preservation act and that statute really breaks down into two pieces uh a federal agency implementing a project that could have uh adverse impacts on an historic property uh is first required to identify uh which properties do have an adverse impact and then once those properties are identified uh to hopefully uh take measures to mitigate that impact uh so that's that's the act that Jamie and I have been following and there have been a number of issues along the way uh regarding uh the criteria that the federal agency is using uh first to determine that adverse impact um and for example I'll just read you uh one of the criteria and this is from their own regulations and that is whether the project introduces visual atmospheric or audible elements that diminish the Integrity of the property's significant historic features um we believe and we don't need to go into this today that in addition to the visual which you've heard about uh that unfortunately we will also experience some local temperature and humidity changes and may also uh hear the operation of these turbin under certain conditions but the agency has really not considered that they've considered only the visual effect when they determine whether a property is adversely impacted and so their their criteria has basically been uh whether you can see the turbin from the historic property and it it puzzled us why they were not listing any of our historic properties as being adversely affected we dug into it a little more and I believe the reason for that is when they take this visual look they are only looking at things from the ground level they they say their viewer height is 6 feet so they're only looking from a person six feet tall on the ground looking out over the ocean if if that's their criteria then yeah I then I think we can understand uh that because our properties you you know are blocked somewhat by the angle side the seash shell and other Ocean Front structures that under that criteria they would not list our properties as histo as adversely affected however that criteria seems a bit strange because it doesn't account for someone in the historic property uh on the second floor or the third floor or maybe there's a higher floor uh looking out towards the ocean and my guess is that if you looked at or considered the upper floors that there would be a number of our properties that would see the turbin and then would be in that category called adversely affected uh so there's there's a number of other issues with the way they've implemented this but I think this is the most important uh that we wanted to bring to your attention um that criteria to to me seems a bit constrained and I cannot see a reason uh if that's your criteria why you would not consider views from the second or third floors so that that's kind of the issue that we just wanted to bring to the town's atten mention um and you know of course it's up to you how you want to deal with it um you know my suggestion would be uh to go back to the Interior Department and suggest that this is not exactly a reasonable way to do business under this law and that they should at a minimum consider views from the second or third floor uh but that's that's uh basically uh the main thing I wanted to bring to your attention tonight thank you Dr Stern um Sher is it possible to pull up some of the other slides this is what's interesting in this presentation is these slides were all prepared and presented by Atlantic Shores the company that's doing the work and when they told there's some yeah there's some yeah there's some Yeah well yeah because you can see and so I mean how clearly you're going to see the turbines and they keeps claiming that no maybe only 6% of the time but you can see them very clearly it's like as I say you go over the bridge look South toward the borata what used to be the G borata and that's going to be like a third of the size to maybe quite half and you can see that clearly they're 20 miles away these will be roughly 9.4 miles I think it is um so I thought it was interesting that these were uh supplied by the company themselves just to give you an idea as to what we're going to be looking at it's easier to see on your own computer yeah but yeah thank you much if I could just inject two things about that uh this slide for example you know it's reasonable rendition but because of the the the way they present this in their document it's really not presented at the right size it really should be presented at a third higher scale and so the turbin will actually appear a third higher than what you see here um the other thing to be aware of is the the statements they make in these uh uh visual assessments about these only being visible you know 6% of the time 10% of the time uh those are not valid uh those statements were derived from what they used to call a ruers meteorological study and that was a study of looking at some object near Atlantic City Airport they were not looking at thousand foot high wind turbines and and and based on that they take the results from that onshore visibility study where I suspect they were looking at something much smaller and they translate this to the wind turbin we actually met with ruer staff about this because we felt their study was not being used properly and they actually agreed with us the the ruer staff agreed with us uh so now the bone people they keep presenting this these results but they no longer call it the ruer study because basically ruers disavowed themselves from it so just to make you aware I I would not put much faith in those statements about you're only going to see this 8% of the time uh you can let your eyes uh do the talking for you and uh you know you make your own judgment as to how this is going to change in overcast conditions uh but structures of this size are not going to disappear uh in overcast or hazy conditions you know be less visible uh but you're still going to see him but anyway that's that's a second issue that we continue to try to uh get some changes in the way they present this material uh but again I think the most important issue for the township at this point uh is probably that view from the ground versus the upper floors thank you very much uh basically um Kitty and I had a uh a joint call with Dr Stern yesterday and uh the feeling was I know Jamie's already done this and received no reply to her concerns about the historic district uh he suggested sending another letter to a lot of different entities uh in this hierarchy and I personally I would like to see the council endorse sending another letter and you know just hearing what they have to say because it's like our whole historic district and our historic buildings have just kind of been swept aside and I wouldn't mind attaching Jam's letters to emphasize the fact that we did this back in December and got no answer and now we'd like to try it again by the way I know this has been hours and hours and hours of meetings and work and paperwork so Jamie and Dr Stern thank you both very very much absolutely thank you Dr Stern for being here tonight and um you know if if if nothing else can't hear you yeah if nothing else anything can do to at least delay this um but certainly it's worth a try and um I will and Janette Lloyd offered to she's also going to she's our chairwoman of historic the historic district and she will um write a letter as well and we will send it from our commission as well so we'll see what happens and I and I think we I I I think I like to see make sure everybody on everyone on Council supports us another another an additional letter writing campaign or at least a majority yeah cash receipts in the current fund account for the period of February 1st through February 29th 2024 were 3 million $982,000 the current fund account for the month of February totaled $ 82,6 75 cash receipts in the water utility account for the period of February 1st through February 29th 2024 were 29,41 74 Cash dispersements In The Water Utility account for this for the month of February total $42,715 cash receipts in the sewer utility account for the period of February 1st to February 29th was 2269 9866 and cash dispersements in the sewer utility account for the month of February totaled 17,869 submitted by our Treasurer Sherie bowler I have minutes for approval today without formal reading the January 8th uh Community Development block grant meeting and regular meeting and the January 25th 2024 agenda meeting motion to approve the minutes for January 88th and January 25th thank you second all in favor I I thank you ordinance 2024 2C and then an ordinance amending chapter 212 zoning section 21 permitted modifications and exemptions in the burrow code of the burough Beach Haven county of ocean state of New Jersey to remove exceptions to yard width within the Burrow Beach Haven in all zones except the historic district final reading a motion so you have to open the floor for final adoption I guess I'm in another world you got to use your microphone there yeah is anybody like to come forward and uh discuss this ordinance uh and anybody on Zoom anyone on Zoom wishing to be heard if you could raise an electronic hand then we can call on you this is regarding ordinance 2C nobody okay therefore I close the floor and would somebody like to uh um make a motion I'll make a motion to approve ordinance 2024 d2c is there a second second okay roll call Mrs B Miller yes Miss Lambert yes Mr mcaffrey yes Miss Snider yes mayor Davis yes ordinance 2023 3C an ordinance amending chapter 134 noise Section 3 noise prohibitions enumerated exceptions in the burrow code of the Burrow Beach Haven county of ocean state of New Jersey to prohibit construction and Landscaping noise on Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day final reading again uh the floor is open to anybody here or on Zoom to speak to this ordinance anybody want to speak to it yes John Hal 319 Fairview Avenue just just a couple really short comments um I I noticed or I noticed I I read about the ordinance in uh having uh restrictions on Thanksgiving and Christmas and I'm just wondering if either legal looked at this because it appears to me to be exclusionary because there are other holidays that that we all celebrate I even went on the Burl website and we have Labor Day Memorial Day veterans day Martin Luther King day and whether or not we should consider other holidays in addition to Thanksgiving and Christmas that that's the other comment the the the secondary comment I have and I and I know this new noise ordinance has been on the books where we treat uh the construction times in the summertime between Memorial Day and Labor Day different than the other times the year and to me and and I know Long Beach Township does this they they treat everyone the same so there isn't any differentiation between in the winter time your your residents and the summertime you know your visitors and your renters so my only comment is I think we should look at these these times again and I I don't think it's fair that we we subject uh our tax payers our full-time residents to a 700 a.m. in the morning construction and demolition noise when during the summertime that time obviously is is 8:00 P.M 8: am and 9:00 a.m. uh during weekends and and I think I think all of our construction company and developers being good neighbors would comply whatever we would come up with thank you thank you thank you anybody else like to speak to this no nobody on Zoom don't see any hands raised no okay therefore I close the floor do I have a motion to approve uh ordinance 3 C so moves there second second Mrs biller yes Miss Lambert yes Mr mcaffrey yes Miss Snider no mayor Davis yes ordinance 20244 C an ordinance amending chapter 167 site plan review the burrow code of the Burrow Beach Haven county of ocean state of New Jersey to require applicants to apply for architectural advisory committee review prior to site plan review in some instances final reading uh again would anybody like to speak to this uh ordinance in the room or on Zoom no body okay is there a motion to approve ordinance forc I'll make a motion is there a second second Mrs biller yes Miss Lambert yes M mcaffrey yes Miss Snider yes mayor Davis yes ordinance 2024 6C an ordinance amending chapter 184 tennis courts Municipal and chapter 145 pickle ball courts Municipal in the burrow code of the burough Beach Haven county of ocean state of New Jersey to adjust fees for pickle ball and Tennis first reading uh this is first reading so is there any discussion among Council on this I just have a question if you have another item for General discussion is that gonna that's GNA affect that ordinance as well do you want to yeah yeah hold off on this you wna yeah do you want to table this and chill I mean doesn't make sense to go into an ordinance when you're going to be you're right like however it won't affect it because it's only the general discussion is just relating to times I think I don't know I was just saying to just the office yeah I get what you're saying um and and we have people are going to speak about this later but this is kind of like a pilot program too this is not something we just want to see if this works because right now there's a problem and several Solutions have been offered and this was the one they felt was the most viable so I don't know if we need to include that or not or just I mean it could be an administrative um choice to say that we're not making the daily passes available until 10: am. I could always do another either way in other words you're saying that the ordinance doesn't cover the 10: a.m concept that we can add that later is that what you're saying I'm a little confused right now the ordinance just says what time people can start start and it and the cost right and but the 10 a.m issue can be administered later on is that what you're saying I mean you could just do it administratively by rules of the Court we could administratively without having to amend the ordinance right okay so that that that that works for me so uh is there any discussion regarding the ordinance relating to uh the cost of the uh the fees charge for tennis and pickle ball and the times when one can start playing these Sports is there any discussion among council at this point no no okay so this isn't this is a first reading so it's not open to the floor uh so in that in that case do I have a motion to approve motion to approve succeed I'll second it okay Mrs B Miller yes Miss Lambert yes Mr mcaffrey yes Miss Snider yes mayor Davis yes ordinance 20247 C an ordinance amending chapter 199 vehicles and traffic schedule 30 I'm sorry section 30 schedule 6 no parking during certain periods of the Year reserved parking in the burrow code of the Burrow Beach Haven county of ocean state of New Jersey to prohibit parallel parking on the West Side Delaware Avenue from Taylor Avenue to Fifth Street first reading okay so this is first reading not open to the public at this point is there any discussion among the Council on T on this specific uh ordinance no I think it's a great idea I know the chief was very instrumental and I know uh councilman mcaffrey um looked at this extensively and tried to find the best way to make it safe because right now it is fairly unsafe down there between the pedestrians and the cars and all that bikers I agree you want to talk about it is unsafe and if you ride your bike down there in the summer it's kind of scary okay we're not we're not going to take out the parking completely there it's the we own a certain uh degree of property from the roadway in and we are going to put uh angle parking in there and there'll be a sidewalk but there'll be no what we're doing is we're wide widening the area that you could go down there so instead of having cars parked on the roadway they won't be there anymore and you could open up almost another whole Lane so you know between pedestrian traffic people's on bikes and stuff and I know I had when I worked um with the police department if you got caught down there and there was an emergency call You couldn't get out of there at least this this should open it enough open it up enough so police could get there fire could get there first aid could get there and you have less accidents and bikes and stuff like that I think yeah now you're also it's very hard to see down there we're also installing curban sidewalk on that side as well so get the pedestrians off as well that's awesome can we get all this done before the summer yes okay uh all right is there any more discussion regarding that amongst the council so do we have a motion to approve motion to approve 7c I'll second Mrs B Miller yes Miss Lambert yes Mr mcaffrey yes Miss Snider yes mayor Davis yes by the way it's SU months only no parking there right all matters listed under item consent agenda are considered to be routine by the municipal Council and will be enacted by one Motion in the form listed any items requiring expenditure supported by a certification of availability of funds and any item requiring discussion will be removed from the consent agenda and discussed separately all consent agenda items will be reflected in full in the minutes resolution 71 returning performance bond 72 returning remaining escrow 75 returning piling bonds 76 returning remaining escrow police detail 82 establishing fees for the junior lifeguard program 83 awarding a contract to Barlo Buick for the purchase of a vehicle for sewer utility 84 is directing the mayor and manager to execute deeds and any and all other documents to change title of former sewage Authority property real and otherwise to the burough Beach Haven 85 authorizing affordability assistance in the form of a homeowner assistance agreement with the owner of an affordable housing unit located at 510 North Bay Avenue Unit 204 86 authorizing affordability assistance in the form of a homeowner assistance agreement with the owner of an affordable housing unit located at 510 North Bay Avenue Unit 305 87 off authorizing affordability assistance in the form of a homeowner assistance agreement with the owner of an affordable housing unit located at 510 North Bay Avenue Unit 205 and finally I'm adding verbally resolution 88 and this is authorizing limited offseason garbage collection for commercial establishments all right um I would like to remove 88 for further discussion basically since Council hasn't had time to think about this um anybody else want to remove anything yeah I'd like to remove 85 86 and 87 okay anybody else okay so in that respect um uh do we have a motion to approve uh the ordinances from 71 to uh 8 uh 84 through 84 I'll make a motion thank you second I'll second Mrs PA Miller yes Miss Lambert yes Mr mcaffrey yes Miss Snider yes mayor Davis yes okay we'll go back to uh resolution 8586 and 87 Colleen yes thank you um before everybody gets very worked up and upset I do plan on approving these but I think that probably the most aggravating part of this is that we have given assistance before we do have the money in our COA fund but this is like the gift that keeps on giving um unfortunately when Victoria Rose was being built dozens of people stood here and said bad idea don't do it there are so many things that can go south and they all have and that building requires a lot of attent U excuse me attention and the poor people in the COA units have to pay the homeowner fees as all these repairs keep coming and coming and I feel for them because the fact that they had bought the COA unit means that you know obviously they weren't buying the million dollar units I always thought the homeowner fees were high to start with and now they're going up up up and COA doesn't protect them at all so I think this should be our cautionary tale before we get too involved with more affordable housing right now the affordable housing commission is in a complete state of disarray on the state level all right there's lawsuits flying everywhere and after we approved our motion to continue with the lawsuit about two weeks later we got something from the County Commissioners urging us not to until the state gets their act together so you know we're caught in this kind of limbo and like I said I feel for these people because they really are stuck and we have the money in our co-fund but I just don't like the the fact that we have to keep shelling out money for something that we already made accommodations for so I just wanted to get that in because like I said the gift that keeps on giving it's the taxpayers um I I'd like to put a just a comment in I I agree with you it is a gift that keeps on giving and it there are so many problems with affordable housing and but we're still under the opes of it and the and the state hasn't been very helpful in helping us solve this and I'm I'm seeing this too I mean the concept that uh you want to give somebody uh a less expensive living uh place and we do need these for people we people that have grown up here and lived here all their lives and they can't afford to live here and be chman so they can get affordable housing but it is um we don't have enough of it we need more single family single one-bedroom affordable housing but uh the affordable housing people have to be more willing to work with towns like us and that's a real problem I I it it's terrible these fees do go up I have a condo in Florida and I my fees doubled from 2,000 to 4,000 and it it's really a lot of money and um I but you we you need it because you have to have insurance for flooding living on an island is a very expensive proposition but I you know as you say you can't leave these people in the Lurch they do they they do are very low income people um and but we need we need affordable housing in in on this island and just to be clear these are not their normal HOA fees we're not this is an assess right we're not permitted to those HOA fees have to be static amongst the residents these are added assessments from their Association on them on the homeowners for repairs litigation um some shorts in their accounting that sort of thing yeah one these are not uh recurring Yeah well yeah that's true but there could be more of the in the future so um okay do we have a motion to approve this so we'll start with 85 we'll make a motion in a second please oh oh each one at time okay so I'll make a motion to approve 85- 2024 I'll second thank you Mrs biller yes Miss Lambert yes Mr mcaffrey yes Miss Snider yes mayor Davis yes and 86 so moved Nancy I have you as my first thank you Mrs ball Miller yes Miss Lambert yes Mr mcaffrey yes Miss Snider yes mayor Davis yes and 87 please so moved thank you second Mrs ball Miller yes Miss Lambert yes Mr mcaffrey yes Miss Snider yes mayor Davis yes so resolution 88 is uh offering to the yearround commercial establishments through the Department of Public Works the collection of one uh rearload up to three yard dumpster in the off seon from October 15 to March 31st so the resolution is an interim measure to be able to offer that service until the end of the month then an ordinance will be required to put it in place formally but I know that you were looking to get this in place before the end of the month so the resolution would authorize the collection of one rear load up to three yard dumpster and basically there's been discussion about this in the past we used to pick up the trash for commercial people and then we stopped doing that to save money and they hire Waste Management um this is an attempt to encourage more businesses to stay open during the the entire year um and it is just a short term and it isn't going to cost us much money we have the equipment the the other thing is um a lot of the a lot of the the businesses have um gone to um uh side dump dumping so when they hire from Waste Management places like that they pick up the dumpster on the side and they don't dump it from the rear so that if they don't have a rear ending dumpster they wouldn't qualify for this so it's just a attempt to help some of the businesses uh that aren't really making any money in the offseason uh stay in business in town during the offseason well first I'm hearing but I I I think anything we can do to help our businesses in The Fringe SE and year round I know it's hard for some of the businesses to stay afloat um and I think it does it's not asking much I think it's a good idea and I I I don't see any problem with it at all I know it also helps plent of help in the winner and yeah yeah yeah and any our businesses it's we need to try to give back more to them I think and I think this is one thing we can do to to help our business owners something small yeah I agree I mean it's the first time I'm hearing it too so um but yeah good premise all right anybody else is there a motion to approve this I'll make a motion to approve it second okay Mrs PA Miller yes Miss Lambert yes Mr mcaffrey yes Miss Snider yes mayor Davis yes I have a bill list today in the amount of 98,9 51.78 everybody read the bills motion to approve the bills motion to approve the bills thank you Mrs B Miller yes Miss Lambert yes Mr mcaffrey yes Miss Snider yes mayor Davis yes right on to General discussion okay uh the first one is the proposed pickle ball regulations that we kind of came up briefly before that um this came up during the parks and rec committee meeting and basically the pickle ball Community is trying to find a way to alleviate the crowding especially earlier in the morning they had several ideas in play and the one they thought was the most viable was because most of the season pass holders show up at 8 uh they suggested holding off the daily um sales sales of passes until 10 and um like I said members of the pickle ball Community actually came up with this and there are a couple pluses and I see Margie is on and she has has been very very instrumental and she said she would be glad to make this little presentation so Margie thank you thank you Colleen for that introduction so yeah the the issue that our uh subcommittee uh was trying to address is the crowding that occurs and you know the we did a lot of um data collection last summer we did spot checks to see how crowded the courts were it's a little bit of background the courts are open from 8: a.m to noon there are six courts so 24 people can play at a time and anyone Beyond 24 signs up on the Whiteboard and then they rotate in once a game to 11 ends and so many uh many of the days that we did spot checks there were between 50 to 58 people there playing or waiting to play so what that means six courts are filled with 24 people you're going to have 26 to 32 players sitting around some days there was one day it got so bad that they they had a line for people who wanted to sign up on the board because there were you know far beyond 48 people between the 24 playing and the 24 on the board and so you know this stays that way until usually around 11 11:15 and then it's it's lighter and then open Play ends at noon and the courts can be used no charge um for the rest of the day and so when we looked at the the data that we had we found that there were an average of 30 daily passes sold per day in July June is light you get to the end of June you know the beginning of the Fourth of July week that's when a lot of people start showing up and so July was was the worst and it it went over um 50 passes being sold on a few days and then it continued for the first two weeks of August and then it really went went down to more normal levels so we tried to look at options how could we space the players apart so that some people are playing later in the morning some people are playing earlier in the morning and there are other places around the country that do this some places do it by saying you know intermediate these two hours Advance these two hours that opens a whole K of worms who's to rate them and it just it's not a place I think we we want to be for a public park uh we looked at other things like well do you just say oops we hit our limit we can't take anyone else then the problem is people traveled there and they have to go home and that could be very frustrating so the um the idea we came up with you know we we sell 162 or we sold 162 season passes last year but uh as Colleen already said on an average day I'd say about 30 of those season pass holders show up very early in the morning uh and then the daily ads to that so the concept is what if we held off the daily passes and don't sell them until 10:00 a.m. then you're spacing the players apart those ones that show up at 8 start to leave a little bit after 10: now you've got people showing up at 10: hopefully we'll stay to noon so this the courts stay filled or they can stay after that if they want so that's our recommendation that we do this from you know the beginning of that that fourth July week which I forget June 28th or some date um the Friday before 4th of July and we continue it until mid August um and it's managed by you know the staff that uh is at the hut and we see what happens and if it is working to address the issue then you know that's great and uh you know we we really think it's the best way to help to alleviate the crowding and so that people aren't sitting out it can take up to 30 minutes to get back in if there are seven or eight games that have to finish before you're able to go back in so we think everyone will have a better experience with less wait time thank you Margie um Steve I see you're on and I know you made a very important comment during our committee meeting about the parking and how this may be a big uh help in that regard well yes I live uh I'm on the parks committee I'm Steve swissman and I'm an avid pickle ball player and uh obviously we've known for years The Neighbors on mville and Nelson complain about the parking problem so if we're going to have less people there you're going to have hopefully less parking problem and I'm out in California now almost every Township has rules like we're trying to do and honestly uh my son son-in-law they play on weekends and we should give a little benefit or F ISM to the beach Haven residents and if we adopt this policy it might sway some of the pickle ball players to go to some of the other courts which Colleen me mentioned in the past also so I think it's a no-brainer to Pilot and uh it's a great idea I I wouldn't uh I wouldn't know why anybody wouldn't vote for this thank you um the third member of the subcommittee I don't usually use names but I don't think he'd mind Don cxis and I want to commend Margie Steve and Don for doing something proactively I mean this has been a topic of discussion for years and they're kind of taking the bull by the horns and instead of just saying oh it's too crowded Woe Is Us let's do something about it I really appreciate what they've done and especially helping maybe the neighborhood as well thank you I agree yeah um anybody else on Council want to uh well I just know that they really worked hard hard on this and as I'm also on this committee I'm not on the subcommittee but um and I wasn't sure about it at first until I really heard it heard it and we talked it through and it makes makes sense to me it makes a lot of sense I mean these these neighbors you know we're trying to give them some relief give them some of what they've asked for and I feel that this is a step in the right direction and I think it's a great idea and I think we should try it I think we should try I'm sorry I've just remembered Kitty you asked me an important question that I want to make sure I get on the table you asked me about the weekly renters how will this affect them it won't affect them the weekly passes will still be sold to begin at 8 am so anyone who's renting will not be hurt by this but they'll be thank for mentioning that yeah and if you buy three daily passes youve paid for a weekly pass correct am I correct on that right um but I I do think I mean if it doesn't work we can always go back to the way it was but uh you guys have done a lot of research you've looked at other towns we've had a committee that was very active and I totally agree with Colleen if you have a committee that comes up with something that might make a big change and help decrease the traffic down and the people driving cars and parking why not try it anybody else okay I I guess we uh we can move on to another discussion okay thank you guys for yes thank thank you very much for all you done in you're welcome thanks you made your meeting Margie yes my 7 o'cl meeting now thank you all right uh the next discussion item is the um moing regulations on West Avenue and Pearl Street yes um and again um anybody like to start off this discussion we have two proposed ordinances uh for what we want to do down there and um uh I've thought about this a lot and I've talked to a lot of people um I personally and and I've said this before I want to support the local the local fishermen and the local clammers this has been a busy area for those folks for years Kitty provid us I think would you mind bringing that picture up Chris Ball Miller uh uh this is what Pearl Streit looked like and this is back I'd say in the 60s because the condos the the duplexes were built then and I remember uh my father was Commodore of little a harbor yach Club at the time and Jay Kramer said you should the yach club should buy this property and they didn't want to spend the money so Jay bought the property and put those duplexes in and I I think that was the 60s or the 70s it was whenever my father was commodor but anyway um so this this picture dates back to that period of time and uh I I do really um uh feel that you know we we we want our local people uh to be able to keep a boat there and I'm all for that the one of the issues I I think and I I I don't want to be the one to talk that much is do we need to register these boates and I I really didn't think we did because they all have numbers on them uh which are you know they're state registered votes you have to have a a register your boat with the state but uh according to our police chief uh there's no if you look it up uh online if you go if the police go down there and run the numbers they they don't get any phone number or anything uh so they don't know uh if the boat's sinking or if there's a problem who to call so I I do think it probably might be a good idea to ask people to register their boats and um and and where they have a a phone number would cost them nothing um that that that would be why I want to support the one ordinance versus the other uh that's my point of view but what about the rest of council well I I think we just have two um two not options but two thought processes here one one one we could say make it very very simple and just um pretty much keep it the same but limit um limit the size of the boat and the um to 25 ft and make me making sure that everyone has has a valid U New Jersey clamming or oyster license shellfish license um also that a boat has to be registered and that we would also permit or we would exempt the time limit so both options I think that we have in our minds are would con also would be the same in that regard however I do have just a couple questions if we don't ask the bone owners to to be permitted just filling out paperwork at the burrow so that we know what the phone number is and the name of the owner um how will how can we then number limit the number of votes to 10 we would also limit the number to 10 in both you know kind of both schools of thought which I agree with but how would we limit that number without knowing who is who are who they are right and who who are there who are allowed to be there and who are not um I did hear the chief had to say and I I I mean if a boat sinks and you don't have a cell number I don't know I mean we do have a Coconut Telegraph here in Beach Haven but um I think it makes sense to know the phone number of the people that are keeping a boat there um I mean the real purpose of this ordinance is to amend and clarify sections of the burrow code um related to vessels within the Burrow's repairing Grant it is also to recognize and preserve shelfish history protect our current resources and most importantly at least to me to educate and promote our local Heritage for future generations and another thing and which I you know I think we talked about Kitty um we we want some signage down there that tells people that this is an area that has been used for a hundred years or more by local people that work on the bay that literally clam and and uh and and oyster on the bay and been brought up on yeah we want we want a little history down there um Janette Lloyd did write up a uh a little bit of history of how this came about and and I I know as Mar you get a couple extra money a bit of money to do a sign or whatever and I did that sign for the water tower I'd love to put my money towards putting a couple signs down there about the history of uh the the bman I love it yeah anybody else um you know like I we we've discussed this so much um I definitely want to keep that area I feel it's very very important to Beach Haven to its fishermen it shell fishermen clammers whatever um I think right now one of the sticking points is whether we do the registration or not do the registration um I don't know if it's registered with the state but I do understand about the phone numbers if there is a way uh then the question is are the same boats always going to be in there or would there be a transi aspect if there's a transient aspect then yeah I think you better make sure you have everything registered but if not I I don't know I don't I think we're saying also you need a you need a recreational or a commercial license uh claming license or whatever and um and they're not expensive to get you can get them but I I I mean it would be unlikely a transient would use that unless it was a clamber coming from tuckeron or somewhere like that so I I you know I I don't see it as it we have other places for Trans and boat slips I think you know maybe I mean just for reaching out to them because I think that was a concern I don't know that's just my thoughts anybody else yeah um I I I think there should be like a maximum which they say 10 boats because if it does get down there in the storm they could be H uh beaten against each other and it's also nice to have the permit to be able to if something comes up with the police department that they could call somebody you can't get you can't get a phone number off of somebody's registration of a boat you may know who they are but you may not know who they are I also believe in the permit for the simple reason that somebody puts a name to that boat so somebody can't come in and just put their 10 boats there and everybody else is out so yeah that's the thing to help to secure the person's ability to be there but I also don't want it to be too restrictive because I want to I I don't like to put the restrictions on it either but you you need it as far as I'm concerned I I always liked it we called it Pearl Harbor and you know it was always locals that were there and there were quite a few characters there some good some bad but um yeah I I would like to see the perits with it and yeah I know Jimmy doesn't want to talk with she has I don't else okay I'm fine with it either way actually but I just I think that how how I mean I guess it's worked all these years for the ones that are there to keep their spot but I don't know well I you know I mean obviously I don't think we would I mean that most of the people that that are going to come and permit their votes are probably the people that are already there I mean I would want to ensure that uh okay so there's no more discussion on that we can move into public comment so you would like the draft to be presented at the next meeting I would like the draft to be presented at the next meeting permits right okay and I I think we we'll put the per you know we'll look it over but I think just the fact of having a phone number is helpful and uh so you want to introduce an ordinance at an agenda meeting just to be clear you want well i' like to get this done you know as fast as we can so we can implement it this summer did you want to introduce it right now in its original form or do you want to wait all had a chance to review it tonight I feel like that's so if you well we're just talking about it we're just we're not we're just give it to the public until it's introduced anyway right I'd like to give it to you well just because um I feel like we don't know what we're voting on because so we have to see see ordinance and I don't have a problem with it at an agenda meeting I never have so that's up to you I mean the question is do you want to or when's the next uh the the next agenda meeting is not the end of the month right yep uh so that I you know either that or April but if we introduce it in April how long would it take to get it implemented two readings and 20 days what time what two readings and 20 days it would take right so that would be that' be fine April May June right be June if nobody has a problem introducing it at the next meeting I can the next meeting is spring break too so you might consider the public for that yeah let just move it to the next regular meeting no one will be able to comment until the final reading anyway yeah okay now works okay that's all I have all right all right so um opening the floor to General discussion public comment public comment yes sorry public comment and um so that means anybody on Zoom or in the in the audience can come forward and speak uh state your name and address and you we do have one on Zoom Carol Weissman 3 10 Southwest Avenue I just am just point of clarification here there's two documents I'm not sure which one you guys are kind of talking about in terms of two ordinances but um and the process would be to write the ordinance now so neither one of these are the ordinances that are yeah yeah I mean one of them is a lot looser than the other and one has more restrictions right and uh basically I think we all decided that we do want the boat we do want people to come in and register their boat so we have a phone number uh so we probably looking at the more complex ordinance as a possibility believe however it's still so the only thing that um that I would have to say about it is um it sounds like there's still not Clarity in terms of exactly the boats that are there what they're for and because we kind of go back to this thing of well the people have always been there it would be nice if they could just all stay there but I don't know if you know if everyone knows exactly what kind of a boat they are whether it's a commercial um clamming oystermen making a living with a lease that that's the intention of the people that were out there or what what there other boats there I see there's a limit in these ordinances in terms of size um but it doesn't really say I think we said 25 ft 25 ft correct can't be any bigger than 25 ft um but in terms of the licenses if someone just has a license but they're not involved in doing the commercial when register the boat they would have to show a clamming license a clamming license and a lease that would because that's what you have to have to do commercial to be commercial I mean I mean let's face it we can't be very and this this is what we shouldn't be doing back and forth but the to think that we could have 10 people that could actually have a make a living this commercial clamors I mean I wish it could be but I fortunately to live here and be able to do that it would be very so then others if there are others on the island besides the people over there that have a recreational climbing icense they would perhaps be able to have one of these spots too that would work so I would assume that there would be some kind of communication about what the requirements are the communication of the availability to others okay AB we would know and we could contact them if there was a okay all right thank you thank you anybody else Tom Cox uh yes Tom Cox uh I live at 329 hoo Avenue in Beach Haven I also live at 409 Pearl Street and have lived there for 24 years now um I have kept my boat uh there on Pearl Street for 20 years and um I guess what I'm hearing is because my boat is 27 ft I will no longer be permitted to put my boat there so I first like to get clarification on that um second I have no problem getting a commercial climber license but I just want to make sure that um I understand you know how this is going to be written considering I've had my boat there for quite some time now I I we'd have to discuss this Tom I I know your vote's been there and you've been you know you you keep it microphone oh sorry and you keep it in good shape and and you live right there you know I I would like to be able to make an exception for two feet but I I can't say personally I mean it has to be agreed upon by everybody on Council I know you've had that boat there for years and it's never caused a problem however it's bigger than 25 ft and therefore it would not be permitted sorry but yeah are there any other owners that have a boat there that use it regularly yeah uh Tom are there any other owners that have boats there besides you does Gail Murray have a boat um she doesn't any anymore you know she was planning on getting one but not done she does not have one at this time okay I because I know I talked to her and I know she mentioned that she wanted to keep a boat there um and you know maybe Jason or somebody would be you know under those circumstances I would say that that boat would be grandfathered would be my opinion I I I feel that way too and Gail has agreed to let everybody use the the dock that she has uh that it wouldn't be uh used it be a landing area for everybody there so um I mean that that's very generous of her because she did pay for the dock and um and all also um uh she did she did get uh her husband when he was alive did get he went to De and they do have paperwork that they have the permission to keep that dock there so I think I you know they they've been very generous about allowing anybody to tie up to that dock land on it get on and off a boat from it so I I thank I think it's great if you get Landing getting on and off right a 28 foot boat there all summer doesn't leave much room for anyone else so that's my opinion and it is our repairing area and I'm sorry but you know it's it's not I did talk to Gail you know about having a boat tied to that Dock and explained to her that as your vote is now Tom but that maybe you'd have to move the boat somewhere it couldn't be tied to the dock it would just be used as a landing site okay and then lastly uh I'm currently paying insurance for that dock is the town going to taking over that insurance if the town has did ask me that and I forgot about that question I don't know maybe they would pay for the insurance what is how much is the insurance on that Tom do you know Allan I think you know we it's about $300 a year or something like that okay well I mean I I I you know we'd have to discuss this I can't make any you know this this all has to be decided by the council not me but I personally I I 300 50 bucks or so uh to to make it safe for people to get on and off of the boats I I think the town could afford that but I as I say that's just my opinion so at what point well I know whether I can keep my boat there because I you know either have to make other plans or you know what what is the timing of this I guess we have to talk about it we have to pass his ordinance I I can't really tell you how soon we we can make that decision well and you know I'm sorry that you know unfortunately have a boat that's bigger than the criteria but if if the if the mission here is to preserve and recognize you know this type of Bayman which is what we seem to forget about in this town and and have forgotten through the years and I think it's important to be consistent and if we're adopting an ordinance with a size limit and already accepting unfortunately I'm sorry about that um Mr Cox but I I have a problem with that so if it's 25 feet it's 25 feet if it's 30 know that's just how I feel so so you can see the council's kind of divided on this issue so I mean we can't really tell you I mean personally I I disagree with Kitty I think we could grandfather you in maybe not scale cuz she doesn't have a boat now she would have to buy something smaller at least not over 25 ft but this is you know we can't that's a divided we have to discuss it um I do think that you guys that live in those uh houses along there do watch out for what's going on and um uh you know you you have an invested interest in uh you know who's walking up and down there and and the care of the boat so for me I I I appreciate the fact that um that you know you're keeping an eye on things and uh anyway but it you can see that not all of us feel the same so there has to be some discussion thank you uh okay Deb Deb witcraft 528 doc Road you're talking about preserving the the Bayman history and all that stuff I don't think this gentleman is a commercial shell fisherman and that boat has been tied to that ramp for so long that that is Municipal riparian Grant lands the burrow of Beach Haven owns the land under that Dock and for this gentleman to have his boat there and have the straps attached to his boat to keep it off the dock there should be no boat permanently docked to that ramp out there absolutely none that is Municipal riparian Grant lands if you're truly sincere about preserving the history the maritime history of commercial shell fishermen then stick to commercial shell fishermen if you're going to have boats docked there first of all Beach Haven Bonafide residents not people who live in their cars and their boats and use somebody's address as their residents as their domicile they should have first Preference they should have a commercial shellfish license not a five doll license or a senior uh clamming license where you go out every couple days and you've got two or three of your family boats tied up there that doesn't count that does nothing to preserve the history of the Bayman here um they should have an annual report that they provide to the burrow a leaseholder agreement with the state of New Jersey to prove that they truly are in the commercial shellfish industry and proof of insurance as a commercial shell fisherman I mean you're you're talking about preserving the history and putting a sign there and all that you've got recreational boats that have nothing to do with shell fishing or clamming or oystering so I'm not quite sure really what your goal is and if there's two different ordinances being proposed you can pick and choose who gets to review these ordinances this is up for discussion why are they out on the street there it's a discuss error that was an error yeah oh wow yeah we seem to have a lot of errors in this town and a lack of transparency when you're trying to jam through an ordinance on first reading that nobody has even seen I mean there's something wrong here I would is trying to jam oh yes you are you were talking about on first reading doing it tonight tonight yes I just asked because the next meeting sh suggested that on you pass on first ordinance tonight something that the public isn't even aware of some people have access to the proposed ordinances and others don't I mean this is a circus they never did this is a circus well Deb with all due respect this is not a circus that's not fair and and Sher was simply asking how we felt about that and to which I responded we haven't uh we don't know what we're voting on and we should not do that and I think and everybody else agrees we are not voting on anything this an ordinance tonight she qu she asked how we felt about it that's this is up for discussion we all agreed that we're not going to vote on it why would we vote on it we don't know what we're voting on tonight this has been talked about for months and months and months and we're trying to come up with um a solution so we can I don't know first before you start talking about grandfathering people for folks that have nothing to do with Shish industry all right all right well thank you I'm sorry that you don't agree with us you know no matter what you do anybody else like to speak this yes thank you come forward good evening Council how are you um by name is Steve maluri 1915 uh Virginia Avenue in Beach Haven I was just looking um if we could I know it is General discussion I don't know if one council person or several um I am going to read the existing ordinance in place because I'm I'm unfamiliar with it I was just actually at uh my son's t-ball practice and then made it over to Pal quickly and I did have a question about um this Pearl Street dock situation so as I'm understanding it what has been been said tonight is that for commercial shellfish harvesting saying commercial and recreational okay somebody that has a commercial or I mean I would certainly give First Priority First space to a commercial person sure and are they are they proving residency in Beach Haven that has to be discussed further I I don't know if we can really do that because I just my concern with anything right we we're gonna and I'm just going to go off the gentleman's comment from earlier about his boat being 27 feet so when you go to insure your boat that the insurance company's asking for like a length overall right and then what's on your New Jersey registration is not always accurate to your actual boat length um for instance if you've got a a 23t contender it's it's really 25 feet but it's classified 23 feet I just see a lot of gray area here and I will read the existing ordinance just so I'm I'm fully aware but I think what's going to happen and just what I'm surmising from the the quick discussion um here and what what I was just discussing with a few um fellow parents at pal I I think unless we clearly Define what's what's allowed and and what's not I think you're going to have recreational people pushing the limit um and then my my question above that is like because the town owns the reparan rights just going to throw this out here as a what if right say you've got a boat file right and it torches five boats what happens who pays who's liable and are we going to collect any revenue from our rights as a town that you know we we own that valuable land what would a feeb and as a boater and and something that was just just happened over the weekend there was a really bad boat fire in chub key in the Bahamas this massive 160 foot yacht burn not not that I'm not everyone's okay not that I'm not worried about the 160 foot yacht A friend of mine's 19 foot little boat was like 600 yards away and it's completely toast so ju just trying to understand what the town's liability in this is if if there was an accident or if someone got hurt or if somebody um were to come in and and run somebody over I mean it it happened so I'm just really trying to understand what are um what our responsibility is as a town and then who it's truly going to be open to and is it commercial or is it residential and if the people who are going to be commercially using it of course um I believe as Miss Miss witcraft had said earlier they're going to pay a whole different category of an insurance they're going to have a quota that they have to fill out um and I just trying to understand exactly what the point of it is and what we're going to hold everybody to to a what standards going to be there you know every time this comes up we we get into these very detailed discussions and people have been using this site for for really a long time another issue is that you really can't get boats with K you know there you're really limited there's not much water there particularly towards the east um so that's an issue as well there there's a lot of issues regarding insurance which is you know a concern I I know know Jamie knows more about that than I do um so she she could possibly address that but I mean this is still up in the air uh I do not think and I might be wrong that we have enough commercial fishermen to really fill up those spaces that's why we're saying commercial and recreational um but again every time we we get on this the disc the discussion gets deeper and deeper so it's a very diff it's been a difficult does the town have any Improvement they need to make in order like if this were to pass like do we have to do anything there set up as we we've been replacing the bulkhead down and that's quite expensive oh I'm I'm sure that was happening anyway yeah yeah yeah I mean it has to happen okay and and I mean for a little history I mean at one point we offered uh for the residents to buy the reparan rights for that we talked about it nobody wanted to do that so offer for I'm kidding I'm I'm I'm kind of kidding but not no it's I I I get it I know you're not running in there with a with a 70 foot boat I see you know you're gonna have a shallow draft boat back there I fully understand my concern is the liability you know defining who is going to use it and those are just questions I have Jamie you you and I talked a little bit about insurance and liability I can't really remember you you had done some research on it maybe you could just address that a little bit insur is through the GI so the joint insurance we use the microphone so people can hear our insurance is the GIF so it's an it's a whole policy it covers everything in the burrow so our biggest liability is is the Atlantic Ocean we have the same insurance if someone's walking down the sidewalk as we do in our riparian grants so it's a whole insurance policy that covers the entire burrow so you're not just more liable for something in a different location in the burrow It's all under one insurance policy Okay so believe it or not we're we get more lawsuits for sidewalks than anything else in the burrow believe it excuse me I just wanted to ask Steve I I know I've heard it before but you say your last name again uh you want me to pronounce it or yeah melori okay it might better I actually had it right M I think he raises some very valid points and I think they're things that we can work out like for instance if it's a commercial versus a recreation open up the registration period for a certain period of days and everybody can get in with the commercial and then open it up to recreational I think um now the insurance issue we know that's been going on there forever and I would assume and part of the registration they have to have insurance for their boats and if they don't well then that might be an issue right there uh but there are ways I think you know some valid concerns have been raised and obviously we're not ready to address this issue right now there are a few things it as Nancy said every every time it comes up more things get added but I I think we can iron this out before a whole lot longer thank you thank you uh anybody else on Zoom or in yes John John hurn 319 Fairview Avenue Beach Haven I feel we're in deja vu land again we we when I was president of taxpayers Association we raised the issue now as a resident last time this this was talked about we raised the issue it's great you're giving commercial and recre access but the million-dollar question is what are the insurance requirements of the commercial and recreational fisherman that's going to be tying to burrow property through the repairing Grant because unless we get the answer to that question the burrow is liable they they're at risk best of my knowledge and I and maybe the chief could help me out here because he's a boat owner and I think um I don't know about commercial shellfish but I do not believe that a boat is required by law in the state of New Jersey to have insurance but of course it has to be registered is that correct correct okay doesn't but if something happen no I'm just saying just because you said until we find out I'm just giving you that information just so you know all right Kitty my own my only suggestion I guess or recommendation is um if you're going to go through the exercise of putting forth an ordinance that hopefully will protect everybody then maybe that ordance should reflect what the insurance requirement should be that's all thank you thank you anybody else anybody on Zoom want to speak no anybody else in the audience okay I'm closing the floor to public comment so that brings us to the end of the meeting where we have last comments by the council so anybody like Colleen would you like to start I just wanted to again thank Dr Stern and Jamie for all their hard work um I also want to thank Margie Steve and Don for all their hard work um I appreciate everybody coming out in the comments always Illuminating and good to hear so thank you all very much Kitty um what Colleen said and uh just happy St Patty's Day I guess next week you're ready for it in green yeah don't blow away you beat me on the St patri oh sorry you're I'm Irish but you're way more Irish I'm Italian and Irish I've got an Irish daughter-in-law though I guess I could say that I don't know that you can't say that but you did um yeah now I lost my train fot um happy St Patrick's Day yeah it was happy St Patrick's Day and I had something El um I we'll leave it at that okay by Jamie thank you everybody for coming thank you for your comments thank you for uh Dr Stern and for the parks and wck committee for their suggestions I know they work endlessly to give us their suggestions and they really do their research so thank you for that as well I don't think they're still they're still on there but now that the uh days are getting longer please watch uh the children they are out there playing around and that's it and I really don't have much to say but I do want to thank the parks committee for all their hard work and and and really coming together with the community and thank you Colleen and thank you kitty for you know making all this happen and uh Happy than happy uh St Patty's Day you know they don't really celebrate it in Ireland so U only I think it started in New York yeah it did I think so yeah so anyway so do I have a motion to adjourn I'll make a motion to adjourn I'll second thank you very much meeting jour