hopefully that's better it is Monday January 8th 2024 it is 5:45 and we're calling our public meeting for the Community Development block grant to order um Mike you want to lead the flag salute first one to the New Jersey open public meetings act adequate and electronic notice of this meeting has been provided by posting on the bulletin board in the Beach Haven municipal building on the burrow website and mailing the same to the beach Haven times the Asbury Park Press and the Press of Atlantic City Mrs B Miller here miss Lambert here Mr mcaffrey here miss Snider here mayor Davis all right we're going to set aside the first 15 minutes today to talk about the um Community Development block grant Allison are you on the call I can't hear you if you are um it is a uh federally funded grant that is administered by Ocean County and it must be used used to retrofit or provide Ada accessibility to existing structures or facilities we spoke this morning at the engineering meeting briefly about possibly continuing um I'm sorry in the cdb cdbg funding is provided every two years in the last cycle that we did we used it to retrofit Ada Corners along Bay Avenue um that was um what we had proposed for this year but I know some other ideas have come up did you want to talk about those yep well are all the corners done or do we still need Corners we still need some how many do you know I'm not sure um Allison's rejoining I'm not sure I'd have to talk to Frank to see where we would that is very important and also how much it would cost because it's a $35,000 Grant right well um we were told that there's more money this year than in previous years and we could see up to 50,000 okay so I mean it would be very handy to know how many are left so we can subtract and see what we're talking about Allison are you there I'm trying I can hear you now Allison are you there Sherry yes I can hear you okay perfect I ended up logging in from my from my cell phone is it echoing on your end or no no but it sounds like might have multiple devices on do you yeah let me see if I can happy New Year go ahead Kitty while she's trying to work on her sound well I mean Colleen I I agree with Colleen I think we should find out how many corners it's I don't know how you guys feel but I think that should take precedent if if we have enough money or more money we talk today a little bit about um um possibly uh using for oh Gators we were talking about Gators the park committee we've been we and in the township we've talked about this and at the township they also have my know we have one but to be able to use it to help people who have trouble assess you know getting to the beach to be able to shuttle those people to the beach um that possibly this would cover the cost of a couple of gators additionally we were thinking of possibly putting in a couple swings well the m m I think have already been right the the mov M he wouldn't um he wouldn't allow us to do any retrofit on the beach unless it was a fully ADA Compliant entrance which would require all that okay so basically Fifth Street and Pearl Street yes okay we also have um on our wish list um a couple of ADA swings that would would be for a parent and a child with a special need that they really need to have couple in California that one of our m has seen and um there was it could you were saying that it could also be used for playground equipment so if there are inclusive pieces of playground equipment that we could if we have enough money and we could purchase that would be that would be I think not a bad idea but I think the curbs curb cuts the corners are really important the other thing you know we talked about the Gators is that right now we weren't showing a need for them whether that was because people didn't know or whatever um truthfully I think well of course we only get it every two years but you know I'd like to get the replenishment done and get that all in before we start getting into the Gators just because if it doesn't happen are we going to be sitting on two Gators that have very very limited access that's only my thought with that you could always get the Gators and put them in the garage you need them get strike well it's hot you know that's well the other thing is too is the last G Gator was donated so maybe with some luck at all we could get so the Gators may not even come into play now we only can use it for handrails again if it's on like fifth or Pearl correct right I believe they already have handrails we would only be able to use it if we in installed fully ADA Compliant entrance okay I think what he was saying because of the slope yeah it's too much hi Alison Alison I was able to I was able to log in here perfect so my apologies it wouldn't be a Monday without a technical glitch that's okay do you happen to know um how many of the Ada corner cut the um Corners we were looking at originally how many Frank had on the list I don't I don't even have a guess but I know that I mean we did them in 2018 2020 2022 too I we have to be whittling down so we've done this for three Cycles the uh yeah 2018 we also included the sidewalk at Doc Road and Second Street but then 2020 we did um we did the curb cut and we did the tailor sidewalk and then 22 we did the the depressed curb okay do we have a price I'm not sure Sherry if you already shared with Council that we're EXP ing a little bit more money um we're anticipating 38,000 this year instead of 35,000 it subject to increase um from my understanding when I attended the meeting at the county there are are municipalities that have seem to have run out of projects um so it's it's quite possible that not every eligible municipality will be submitting an application this year if that's the case then those funds would be evenly distributed amongst all of the other eligible municipalities for the year um it sounded like Frank uhu had a little bit higher estimate that it might be something like 50,000 he he I clarified that with him after I think he spoke with you earlier today so the number is in fact closer right now to 38 um but if like I said if those municipalities don't submit then that number could be higher and the cost we have no an approximate cost to a curb cut do you know how many each curb cut cost or how many we accomplished in the previous cyle I I want to say that we did somewhere between like seven and 10 and he's curut and that was for about 35,000 [Music] okay each one is 35 nope no no total the the the total cumul cumulative project okay um did I over you were also talking about a gator potentially yes that's a possibility okay and possibly some um ADA Compliant playground equipment I mean I think yeah I mean that's always an eligible project the Gators are an eligible project um the Moby match you know are an eligible project should you need any more of those um those are typically I mean without being a without being classified as a designated Target neighborhood you're not able to do any sort of Street skate project or anything like that so you're kind of limited to to these types of projects I think we're getting Miss mixed messages from Frank because he made it sound like the mobib bats were not an option that only a fully ADA Compliant entrance would be an option like no I'm I'm fairly confident you could still do the Moby masss MIM mats for 38,000 will get us what 10 feet you're probably gonna get one entrance done in mimat yeah okay Allison do we need to open for public ideas at this first Community Development block grant meeting or the second no you should open for project ideas at this meeting okay so once council's done discussing then should open the floor for other ideas do we need to submit a certain specific plan prior to getting the grant correct yes okay um well we're meeting Thursday but again it would be helpful to know how much money we're talking to somewhere between 35 and 38,000 I know but assuming that we do curb cuts at Curb cuts are coming out of that well I think it just would be cleaner to just pick one initiative that's going to use the entire Grant it is possible if you wanted to submit to separate projects you could do that if you wanted to submit let's say 177,000 for a gator that's about what they're going for now 177,000 for a gator and the remaining 21,000 for curb Cuts you could you could absolutely do that and then if there were funds um allocated in additional to the 38,000 that we're anticipating then those additional funds you could tack on to you know your curb cut project well I think it would be good I would like to do that to split it up maybe have two would you speak louder uh I I would like to I I think the curb cuts are important very important but um I I would like to also apply for the um a gator why not I think a gator would be another Gator would be great yeah we could use it this summer even though some of the streets you can't you know I mean if they they've been using them I think how many curve Cuts do we need we're we not sure not sure what the list looks like uh anybody else on Council want to discuss uh this and after that I'll open it to the floor any just kind of would like to see what the parks and Rex says because they've been looking at us a lot and we meet again before the next um February correct and I think we should be able to definitely have a better idea then yeah that's a great idea Mike I like the idea the gator just for a simple reason that people that can't get up to the beach we could get them up to the beach now and I don't know about the Moby mats how good they you know if that's only one entrance at least the gator could get them through a bunch of entrances and also Chris Carson says the keeping those mats clean as a real he he he finds them very very difficult to deal with keeping them clean uh making sure they're secure uh that they're sort of a nightmare to him and his guys so and he's he's trying them out we're going to use the ones we have to try them out you were I don't know if you heard that you maybe you weren't here and so I think it's a good idea to see how they work are are we we using that Gator we have a lot aren't we well we haven't had a full uh we haven't had all our reservations full yet but yes we are using it so another vator would probably be a good idea I didn't even know we had a gator so I mean a lot I don't think a lot of the public knows that it's possible to call up and get a right you know I I don't know and good if we you know we need we having getting people to the beaches they wanted to go to that right right it adver it's always nice too um when you have more than one you can station them on opposite ends of the municipality yeah that's what the township does that's that's a good idea yeah but we need more publicity I mean because you I mean the people that read the article might have just been there a couple weeks so um if any any comments J J no everybody else has had a CH so I'm going to open the floor to uh the floor in Zoom to public comments if anybody has any ideas to give us that they might think would be better use of some of this money anybody in the audience here anybody on Zoom I don't see any hands up no so okay and and then I'll close the discussion yeah um Allison our next Community Development block grant meeting is uh February um 12th I believe okay and uh we present our final ideas there and um adopt a resolution authorizing application for the grant correct correct um just want to look applications are due to the county on February 16th um um so you should I'm sorry we should be good then yep that sounds good Monday that is it Monday the 12th I see okay and it we'll start 50 minutes earlier maybe I'll remember this time correct yes right all right 545 and then um Sher I'll go ahead if it's okay with you and just get started on the general um components of the application and then we'll wait until that meeting on the 12th to finalize the project I use okay that sounds good okay terrific thank you Allison all right my apologies again for the technical issue no worries all right have a good night thank you you as well take care bye bye cash receipts in the current fund account for the period of December 1st 2023 to December 31st 2023 were $776,000 cash dispersements in the current fund account for the month of December total 2,839 and8 cash receipts in the water utility account for the period of December 1st through December 31st 2023 were 16,7 6783 Cash dispersements In The Water Utility account for the month of December totaled 164,50 120 $420 66 cash receipts in the water utility account for this period totaled $4,200 69 and cash dispersements in the sewer utility account for the month of December 2023 were $4 4,720 61 submitted by our Treasurer Sherie bowler uh under ordinances 2024 2C and ordinance amending chapter 212 zoning section 21 permitted modifications and exemptions in the burrow code of the Burrow Beach Haven county of ocean state of New Jersey first reading and the purpose of this ordinance is to eliminate in zoning and exception to front yard setbacks could I could I speak on this so I I I understand the reasoning for this and I agree with it in town the only concern I have is that um and I I apologize that I didn't do this sooner but I did reach out to I'm on um historic preservation advisory commission and I'm a little concerned about the historic district and if this would could be detrimental to the historic district I have reached out to our hpac attorney Fred rafetto and I haven't heard back from him yet uh just wanted to get his advice as to whether or not he thinks this might be detrimental to the streetcape within the district especially if it's between two contributing homes um anyway I was wondering if we could just remove it until we I hear from him just to get his his opinion on this but otherwise you know it's up to you guys just postpone it to the next meeting yeah do you want it the next monthly meeting or the it doesn't I'm sure I'll hear from in the next couple days okay is that okay with everybody sure that's we just um just to let you know uh Frank the B engineer and also Phil Reed agreed that they that H should not be exempt because I was I know I spoke to Frank about that today and I said well what what are you what are your what's your reasoning there and then we finished talking he said well you have a good point so you know I I think just because of consistency in the town but but within the historic district we've had problems lately because they' made this now you don't need a permit for sighting you don't need a permit for for a couple things that you know townwide burough wide and it's been a problem for us so um I'm not saying that it should they should be exempt but um you know their reasoning was well they those people could always come back and get it as for a variant go for a variance but you know when you're in the historic district sometimes your building materials are more expensive or potentially more expensive and I feel like it's could if that's the reasoning and the mindset it's it would be a hardship for you know it's expensive to get a variance and to ask for a variance so I I don't know I just I'd like to get a legal opinion on it if if yeah just the longer we wait more applications than not are taking advantage of this exemption that are not in the historic preservation Zone because most you have to wait to tear down a house in the zone correct in the historic Zone well you can come in for a demo permit but right so the houses that are being using this exemption are really just taking advantage of the fact that this this is really not designated for them this is really was for like the historic zone so well you know I as as much respect as I have for Frank and Phil I just want to make sure that their opinion on not exempting hpac is valid right the next meeting is the agenda meeting and you know we don't really would Council be okay with moving it to the agenda meeting for a first reading I'm fine with that I have no problems that thing not I don't think we have a lot of people going to run to the meeting to discuss this so um I think that work is that's okay with everybody okay yeah I just don't want to get in the habit of moving ordinances because that was just something we agreed at last month that we weren't supposed to be doing anything heavy duty at an agenda meeting I don't think you know I mean if somebody says something then I think maybe we should postpone it at that point and here at only Council meetings but if it goes go at the agenda meeting without any discussion then I'm okay with it but I just don't want to we did discuss it last time and we're we discussed it a little bit this time and I I don't think there's many people in the public that are that worried about it so I don't well yeah but I we want but if somebody complains we'll right that's what I'm saying but the last meeting was also four o'clock don't forget so we keep having these four o'clock discussions okay uh all matters listed under item consent agenda are considered to be routine by the municipal Council and will be enacted by one Motion in the form listed any items requiring expenditure are supported by a certification of availability of funds and any item requiring discussion will be removed from the consent agenda and discussed separately all consent agenda items will be reflected in full in the minutes I'm going to be removing resolution 27 executing a shared service agreement with Ocean County for Schedule C we just got the estimate numbers for the projects we're looking to do and it exceeds what we expected and we're not able to certify funds for approval tonight so I'm going to move that to the next meeting 29 is returning remaining escrow 34 is authorizing the burrow to advertise for bids for water and sewer department parts 35 is authorizing a refund of redemption monies and premiums to outside lean holders 36 is the for the same purpose authorizing refund of redemption monies and premiums to outside lean holders and also I've added resolution 37 also for the same thing these are leans that were sold at the December tax sale that have already been redeemed um does anybody want to remove any of these for further discussion in that case um do I have a motion to approve the uh consent genda I'll make a motion thank you second thank you Mrs B Miller yes Miss Lambert yes Mr mcaffrey yes Miss Snider yes mayor Davis yes I have a bill list this evening in the amount of 55977 a29 any questions that's the shortest one I've seen in a while little we try not to um spend any or issue purchase orders in January on the temporary budget right is there a motion to approve the bills motion to approve the Bills second Mrs B Miller yes Miss Lambert yes Mr mcaffrey yes Miss Snider yes mayor Davis yes under General discussion uh the first is a draft ordinance 3C regarding noise um the idea that we would restrict construction or prohibit construction or Landscaping noise particular on Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day yeah use your mic um I just think that it's uh really important that there's time designated for family and Gatherings one of them specifically being Thanksgiving and Christmas and especially since a lot of families even that don't live here year round come here for Thanksgiving and come here for Christmas I see their lights being professionally put up and then they come for Thanksgiving and then they come for Christmas and with um all the building and whatnot I think it would be a good idea that you know they have the time with a little piece and quiet for those holidays for their families and their Gathering other towns have this similar coordinance and I think especially since with the building here in Beach Haven it would be it would be a nice thing for families to come and gather without having the house next to them being built the entire day um I you know can't we just incorporate this into the ordinance we have where we we say no noise on Sunday and all that sort is I mean just add that we don't need a whole ordinance for No just add it okay well okay I don't think I mean how many complaints have we had surprising anybody be working on Christmas and Thanksgiving how many complaints I mean I I know the experience that you had Jamie but I how many complaints have we had about this on Christmas or Thanksgiving I mean I've never had that problem here a long time I I I'm concerned that this is overreaching a little bit you know I feel like if someone's if on Christmas or Thanksgiving if someone's in the yard behind you you could always just ask I don't know I like it's another job then you call the police and the police have to come and I don't know I just I personally I understand what you're saying but I uh I think it's overreaching a little bit it's just my opinion I think it makes perfect sense I truthfully I didn't realize that there wasn't some kind of limitation on you know and I guess a holiday is open to interpretation depending upon your beliefs but I don't want anybody banging or doing any kind of thing behind me with making noise on a holiday so I would back it I agree with it I have no problems just putting in the ordinance yeah just saying and holidays special holidays you want to wait till February regular then to introduce yeah we don't have any and holidays it has to be specific because Fourth of July yeah you know you wouldn't do it because yeah okay the next one is a draft ordinance 4C for site plan review this would change um the requirement to apply for a site plan approval to require any construction of commercial or multi-use structure that includes commercial in any Zone to um be heard before the architectural advisory committee before they could submit application for site plan approval I have no problems with that except the advisory committee really doesn't have any teeth we've got to get some teeth in that committee but I I I can't hurt any problem with it I wholeheartedly support this I think it's I think it's um it's a good idea and I think it it it at the very least it encourages the applicants to think about and to take a look at what the um the AAC has put together about their guidelines before they hire an architect or that their architect will take a look at it before they drop the plans and hopefully we just had a meeting this week with um silver sun and it was really good I mean I don't love all the materials he's using but it's low it's modest it's it's you know it's uh it's a step in the right direction um so I wholeheartedly support it I wish it did have more um Power I think it's very important for the members of the land use board um to respect the guidelines that the AAC has put together and to consider it when you're hearing when they are hearing a a land use application before approving a land use application because when you're giving a variance you can always ask for something and so anyway that's my opinion I think it's a great idea I think the U well the AAC had been around for a while but had kind of Fallen by the wayside I know that was one of the first things I did when I became mayor was to get this back up and running again and I think it is important and the shame of it is and we were discussing assessing this earlier that it doesn't have teeth but at the end of the day I think it gives anybody coming in here an idea as to what Beach Haven expects of them and I think it's certainly a good thing for them to be aware of what we would like to see if they want to proceed you know with something horrible um then it's up to the land use board obviously to say no but I think this is a a huge step in the right direction problem Mike I agree with it totally you have to have should should have that a long time ago yeah and now that we originally talked about this before and then we said that we would discuss it again when the commercial District guidelines were complete and they are completed we're just waiting on putting the final draft together and that's what the AAC uses so that's in place that was used at the last meeting to guide them to guide the developers and I think it's a good thing yeah and you've worked really hard on that and I appreciate that thank you okay the final draft ordinance 5c is regarding the riparian moing exemption in the code there is some guidelines for moing in the riparian area some of the rules include moing is limited to two hours and no uh tying up to the this ordinance would exempt boats mored at West and Pearl from those requirements that right did I get that right yes okay this has also been discussed before and former councilman Michael Batista was looking into possibly putting permanent pilings in that area and Frank our engineer came back with a cost and that cost would be approximately $175,000 so that would be a capital budget expense which would be discussed sometime in the future usually you in August and September so this type of ordinance would allow the boats to be able to more there for for this summer moving and moving forward and then we could discuss whether Council wanted to move forward with that type of project I personally don't think it's necessary that's a very low shallow area really only designed for flat bottom boats but that's up you guys I personally would rather not see the pilings go in um if we do that I think we're going to have to auction just slips off like we do on Doc Road um I just like to see it stay as it is and and just get rid of the 2hour limit um I think I think it's a better idea to ask people not to tie up to the bulkhead um uh and just let them put a steak in and tie up if there's a storm they can tie up to the bulkhead just try to leave it as is I I I just think we're we're just drawing a lot of attention to this spot and it's just attracting a lot of other people we we always had just mostly people that clammed and fish that went there and used it and there was never any problem until a couple years ago and um now it's under great scrutiny by lots of people and as I say if we if we go to the expense to to actually create slips with pilings we're going to have to go the route we do on Doc Road and put it up for auction and I I really hate to see that happen um I mean it even even in the the slips that are closer to the West there's not a whole lot of water at low tide um you you really can't accommodate large boats or boats with Keels um my my feeling is just to try to sort of let it just take away the 2hour limit let and just let it stay as it is and see what happens that's my feeling anybody else we've kicked this around at nauseum actually we done site visits we've done all the other things we've heard from um the police fire we were all out there doing the inspection I think at the end of the day the reason for the pilings was because when they put their own poles in they were not secure enough to hold the boats during a storm and then they were on the bulkheads and then they didn't necessarily come off the bulkheads I don't have a problem with leaving it the way it is I I know it's very costly I mean ultimately I would say I wouldn't be against the pilings just as secure place for them to Mo I don't see the need that we have to auction that we've never done that before at that location but that's down the road but for now I would say yeah eliminate the two-hour thing and leave it status quo well I um I mean this started way back before I was on and before Mike was on but it's it's been a you know it's been here for a long time and you know we know everyone there that has their boats there so again you know you know everyone in town and it gets difficult but you know when this we we applied for a waterfront development permit and we got it so we now have a waterfront development permit that was never intended to have the pilings on the east side of the floating dock but Frank just put them in there because he figured why not because he was making the application I don't think that they would should be on the east side of that floating dock you dredge that whole thing out and do it you could do it well that's talk about expense but you know the the piling would just be on the west side of the dock and and the the idea was you know we own this valuable waterfront property and now we have a permit to develop it um the Bayman there now would be the first ones in line for a piling definitely that could be part you know part of the rule that we would we I think that now it's kind of you know now that it's been brought to our attention and we've talked to the Chief and other people people and the res I don't know it's just it's I think that there need to be some rules and I I know that you wanted we want to get rid of the two hour time limit which I understand I don't really have a problem with that but then who benefits from that who are they who were they that are there do we have a list of them do we I mean I don't I mean how is that fair to the I don't know I just I have a it's a concern for me I think the intention um was to make this more of a Bayman for flat bot people that are you know have a clamming license or an oyster farmer that type of the you know and maybe we could make that a requirement we could make up the rules I don't think that anyone intended to charge for these tie-ups you know you have the floating dock nothing could be tied up to that now so we we that didn't have a permit so now we actually put that in our application for this water fund development permit so that you know you could come in from m ha and you could come up to the floating dock drop your guests off your family off come back bring your boat I don't know I just it could we have this I mean we own this waterfront property this right here we have the right you know I just think it's a shame not to take a little bit more advantage of it um and I do think that you know we we've heard complaints and that I think there have to be some rules there and I'm not sure that a twoh hour limit is the right rule um or not but I think that the cost regarding the cost of the pilings I know we're doing a new bulkhead there I think that we could tack it onto the bulk heading at the same time and then maybe it wouldn't be as costly and certainly we don't need as many pilings as we applied for so the cost is not going to be what Frank quoted because we were be you know recreational Bayfront um in the Barrow I think would be a nice thing for the residents so I don't know I have sort of two schools of thought on it I mean you if you start putting a lot of slips there no there you're you're you're you're going to have a lot of more traffic I mean use your microphone use your mic oh I'm sorry people have to park their cars as well I I if then then if you're saying well we're we're you know we're going to keep these spots for clammers and people that make their living on the bay that's a great idea I like that but then we they have to then we have to enforce that we have to make sure we have the clamor license on file or some kind of proof that that there well how many I mean do these boats have insurance all of them I well that's the other question in have to know that we own where they are and do we know you know so I think if you don't know and you don't have rules or regulations now that it's been brought to our attention and people have complained about it I mean it's that's why we don't want TI I don't know you tie them to the dock then you're running into needing all this stuff needing insurance policies and all that stuff or you just say think it would be I mean I'm just saying I'm just playing Devil's Advocate but wouldn't it be safer if we have a piling in there instead of somebody coming in I'm not I don't have a boat I don't really know boats but I mean and I'll ask you this wouldn't it be safer than having them come in and just putting a stick in the ground and tying up to it where the boat's just slashing around I mean I don't know I would say yes it would but you're also opening yourself up for some liability here because you're putting those pilings in there so you're encouraging people to park their boats there now use your Michael use your mic I'm sorry there's definitely H there definitely has to be rules as to what's going on there because so you wouldn't be willing to adopt an exemption without rules see you're without what's going to happen is who there's going to be other people that want that spot and they're not going to be able to get it so you're going to have first come first I know first come first serve which is all well and fine but you're still going to create a problem there you are now the other thing is if you're talking about bringing people in to park their boats there but we have any liability because we're giving them access if they run a ground and ruin their motor there's there's a whole bunch of things that have to be thought out with this um yeah how do you how do you make the eligibility for who goes there that's why well you have an application I don't know but you have an application they apply and there's a whole bunch of things that have to be considered before also we could restrict the size of the votes I guess I don't know just I think we can do whatever my personal opinion is we should see what our liability is with this yeah for sure and I hate wasting money on attorneys but sometimes you just have to yeah yeah I mean no no this came up a number of years ago and um and it it basically I mean I don't want to get into personalities but um it came up and the the reason we said you can't tie your boat to the dock is once they tie their boat to our bulkhead which belongs to and and is maintained and built by the bur of be Haven then that brings liability on to us if something goes wrong as long as they didn't tie up to that bulkhead they they basically would be kind of like moing your boat out next to morai or something like that that's their they're doing it at their own risk and I I I really you know I just find this is I it's just a very difficult situation that as Colleen said we've talked about this ad nauseum and I I I just don't know what to do I wish we could just keep going going the way it's been going but maybe that's not possible because if if the if the proposed ordinance isn't adopted the ordinance on the books requires all riparian moing areas to be limited to two hours I know so that would be applied to that area I mean I I mean basically I just like to have it with the exception of that area and and that boats can't be tied up to the dock and just leave it as it is but I I mean I you're right we should maybe do more studies on liability issues and all that sort of thing but we did look at the I mean we did look at this and I mean this has been probably God it was right around after Sandy I think so it's been a long time that this but and that's when to Plate everybody we just said you have to put a steak in the ground in the in the mud and Tie Your Boat up to that and not tie onto the dock and that was it and then it it just blown into a much bigger issue and uh if we wanted to put if we wanted to actually put slips along there we can now we have the permission um it just costs money and uh uh that I do think we again I think just for your information Mike and kitty I don't think you know this but we tried to get the residents along that strip to buy that property from us so that they would have reparan rats and we wouldn't have to maintain the bulkhead it would cost we wouldn't have to go to the expense to maintain the bulkhead and it would just clean this matter up and none of them wanted to purchase that property there 10 fet of property that belongs to the burrow and but we are required then to maintain that that dock which costs a lot of money and they didn't want to do that so I mean I don't have a lot of but that still falls in the repairing gr doesn't it at the end of Pearl Street at the end of Pearl Street basically we own that 10et of property the bur of beachaven owns that if we were to sell off I the thought was if we were to sell off that property to each owner of the condos that run along there then they would have the responsibility to maintain the um and that would be their and also their taxes would go up so so and basically it's almost a doubling in your taxes when you actually have a reparan rate their taxes would go up we would be giving that up um they didn't want to do that so the ball's in our court I think right now as I guess said we've gone over and over and over this every possible scenario has been discussed the and I I didn't this Waterfront Park development I knew nothing about that okay how that applied for and came into being because this is I learned about it when this thing came into uh play and um my thinking is right now as an INR measure because as I recall when we discussed this last time we were not going to do anything until we were prepared to do the whole bulkhead and then we were coming back to this issue but we weren't going to do anything and I know Chris Carson's the one who came up with the ideas on the pilings and then I mentioned it and Michael goes oh can you do that and I saidwell yeah you know that's a possibility is it the best possibility I think you're right we need to find out exactly what's entailed but I think in the interim so the police don't have to run down there every five minutes and write a ticket and people don't have to we know the Bayman are using that area and they have for a million years I think that this ordinance wouldn't hurt to get us through to a time when we are sure what we want to do with that area so exempt this area from from the two-hour limit yes allow to tie to the bulkhead or no well I would like to hear what the lawyer says about that because I mean the truth of the matter is they've been doing it for a long time but if we put it in writing that they're allowed to tie to the bulkhead that probably and the lawyers would have to answer that question but that might trigger our liability why the lawers we to find out from the lawyers if that would and if we would then have liability if something went wrong we don't want to have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on lawsuits and that sort of thing but we do know that when they put their own polls in which they were asked to do and they did they were not secure enough to hold the boats during any kind of abnormal tide and let's face it we're getting a lot of abnormal Tides these days so that's another consideration well I listen I think you know I think some a few people ruin it for the rest it's a just human nature and I think that in this situation we have a few players that are not um respectful and they are not um they don't appreciate what they have and so I think that that's what annoys me I think they need to um respect the neighbors there and um I respect the neighbors there I I guess we could do that if we can if we could amend this um or whatever it's called to uh but to say till we do the bulkhead and then revisit it then it now it's into perpetuity we could change it back again but I don't know well we need to do something if we're not gonna do something they're not leaving in two hours anyway so no but I mean we can't do anything about as Jamie said it's a capital we can't do that for quite a while so here we are in no man's land so to speak so I think as an interim measure this ordance would at least help with enforcement and it hasn't been enforced for years why don't we just leave it and well but that's been a bone of contention and that's what we're trying to figure out here but you're running into the problems the police are running into problems with people that are down there and there's not really much they could do about yeah but if you ask the police I don't know what the answer would be do they want them to be there or not you know so I mean if that's well there's an ordinance on the books yeah yeah I know but you can't I mean you can't ask them to look the other way yeah all right the discussion continues yes that's all I have how much enforcement have we had down there in the past have we had to have the police down there a lot I think you have the chief here if you'd like to call them up to discuss okay thank you again again um so yeah we we haven't been called down there a lot but we the few times that we were called down it was um it was the few people that we were having problems with uh with their parking with uh their bathroom use over the you know sides of the boat and stuff like that um boats that were unregistered uh tied to the bulkhead and stuff like that you know if we can just get those certain personalities to calm down it'd be great but they tend to ramp up and uh eat they go they go back and forth with the the condo people so Chief isn't it true that the person that you are talking about did not have a boat there that's true but uh apparently he has a slip there I don't know I I only this what kills me he has a slip there no one owns a slip there that's the thing the sense of propriety there that's the other issue is that um if they're first come first serve the people would asked what happens if I put my slip there or my boat there when when that person pulls his out to go clamming because we know we have at least one we have one person down there I and I believe it's oysters or whatever he goes right yeah and I would never want him to have to leave but when he leaves if they put their boat there what happens what happens to him is he out of luck it'd be great if you designate certain spots for people if they're actually going to be licensed and have some kind of liability insurance for the town and we discussed in the past about um them not tying to the bulkhead which is fine and if there's a storm I believe it was de wickcraft talked about there's some Maritime rule about if there's a storm yeah was it um that you can tie to the bulkhead and um you know it's it's not a problem we don't have a problem with that but that's up to you guys to do but it's it's going to be a problem if people start knowing that they can use these slips that they're open for anybody to use and you know people want to go to the restaurants that are right in that area you know Tuckers is right there they can tie up there they go in and it happens to be a time when the guy who is doing his clamming is out and he comes back and now doesn't have a place to tie up to yeah proper gonna get damaged that's what what I'm saying is you have to have some kind of rules yeah set so if that's their spot that's their spot yeah I wouldn't want to yeah you know um it's always been that way and I don't want to you know it's it's hard to take that away from people but you you have to set up some kind of rules yeah where they're at if you have if you apply for these slips then you have the slip for the summer and if you want to use the floating dock You're simply dropping off and picking up so and if there's that much of a problem it comes in front of us and we could decide whether you could revoke that slip from them I mean like we do with the ice cream vendors have them have them you know there if an ice cream vendor causes problems we don't let them come back the next next year so I mean like you said somebody was defecating off the side of the boat that's intolerable that's did it happen I I don't know but yeah there's no proof that happen somebody said that that's what we were we were called down there for that stuff I'm just saying it can happen and happen anywhere yeah it can happen anywhere people pee off the side of go all the time front my house yeah I in front of my house no I don't know I don't want boat or anything prevent the clamor you know these clammers and the guys that have had their boats that are just you know great neighbors to from having their boats there I just think that we have to address certain situation and now we have a you know a permit for this so I don't know I feel like it's a beautiful area that we could take advantage of I don't know I'm one person did we have instances over this season where you had to go out for someone moing more than two hours in any in any riparian area Okay um Center and the bay front uh they actually uh they put cleats on on the side of the bulkhead there and they were tying up every day theyd come over and tie up there so Chris Carson had to go out by boat and uh take take the stuff down what's that they take the cleats off that they put on Chris Chris took the cleats off yeah I know there were some damag but they were they were drill you know they drill holes in and put bolts in and it it damages the uh yeah Town's bulkhead yeah so that's terrible what do you want to do Council thanks Chief sure thank you my thought is to adopt it as it is until we come up with some kind of firm plan for the water front Okay I couldn't really hear what you said I said adopt this so we have something in place in the interim until we come up with a plan for that area I go along with that but I I don't think we should include in their tying up to the Ballon okay I agree okay all right I think that's the at least that's an interim plan till we have time to figure out what we want to do that's all I have n all right so I'm opening the floor and the zoom to uh public comments if anybody'd like to speak either on Zoom or in the room please come forward state your name and address anybody in the room okay uh Adam elander fire chief Beach Haven 100 South Bay have um I just want to give you guys a report real quick of our year end unfortunately I couldn't make the December meeting to let you guys know um but our calendar year generally runs from the beginning of December to the end of November so last year we had a total of 360 calls for the year we had uh 33 fir fires one over pressure 28 rescues 46 hazardous conditions with no fire eight service calls 45 good in 10 calls and 199 false alarms which was about 55% of our calls for the year is that pretty normal that generally we average about 50 false alarms to 50 uh alarms so this year we're a little bit higher on the false alarm side which is good because that means less emergencies um and we are a little bit higher on our call volume this year last year I think we did 330 calls so we're still in the ballpark of what we've been doing um the only other thing I want to bring up is the fact that we opened it up publicly uh January 1 for our Junior program we did start that um we're taking applications now so if you know anyone or you know I wanted to make it public at the meeting that we're looking to take between four and five applicants uh 16 18 years old we're going to have them apply we'll interview them we'll go through with their Guardian uh what the program is about what we're looking to do and uh hopefully we can get some uh young people to join the Fire Company and help out and volunteer and do all that good stuff that's great any questions guys now that junior fire program I um who else in the island does it somebody it's a Surf City barate Light has one there's a couple other places that have them they're pretty successful right one of the things that I'm looking to do besides the volunteering and the fire aspect of it is to also get them Aid fiscally with their education so one of the things that we have in there is that you have to maintain uh I believe it's a c average in school academically in order to stay on the fire company but there's a lot of uh we offer scholarships to our own members so as a member they would be eligible for a scholarship through southern but also there's a lot of other scholarships that are out there the um New Jersey State Fire Chiefs Association the national Volunteer Fire Council there's a lot of scholarship opportunities that are out there including uh waivers from the municipalities and stuff they want to go to Community College for either fire science or a public safety education degree program so those are the other opportunities that we want to make available so that you know between 16 and 18 years old we can still kind of put them on track for you know a higher education I think it's awesome I love it yeah thank you all right yeah I think it's great thank you very much thank you very much anybody else on Zoom want to come forward yes Deb witcraft Deb witcraft 528 Dock Road Beach Haven um the end report for the Beach Haven first aid Squad we answered 1,89 calls if you want a breakdown of the nature of the calls I'll be happy to provide it but I just wanted to give you that figure we usually average about 12 00 calls but we exceeded that considerably just short of 1300 in the calendar year that was number one I just wanted to mention on that construction and Landscaping on holidays I would be very careful if you're going to choose just Christmas and Thanksgiving you're going to have some residents and visitors who are going to wonder why you don't allow construction and Landscaping on those two holidays and yet someone who's celebrating another holiday that represents their beliefs and their uh Faith um they're going to wonder why only Christmas and um Thanksgiving are included in that ordinance so I would just suggest you be careful about what holidays you choose to deem important and the last thing on this ordinance on the riparian you've got a counsel there nothing nothing personal against the council as a whole but the people on Council don't know the difference between a riparian grant and a riparian right and you're kicking all these terms back and forth and not a one of you knows the difference so for you to even entertain the idea of amending an existing ordinance by exempting certain boats there at Pearl Street and West Avenue so that they can dock don't park they dock so that they can dock in excess of two hours you have one Council woman Jamie two of the boats at Pearl Street and um West are hers as I pointed out a year ago and two years ago she is conflicted and even discussing this matter so why she continues to give her opinion is such a conflict of interest and she should know better but I would recommend the council until they talk to an admiralty attorney who can explain the difference between riparian grants and riparian rights and the liability that the burrow and the taxpayers of Beach Haven will incur if you allow someone to tie up to a municipal bulkhead you you have no clue so you shouldn't even be talking about modifying the existing ordinance until you're educated on Admiralty law which this Council clearly is not so my suggestion is that you leave the ordinance alone until you speak to an attorney who's well-versed in admiralty law thank you very much Sherry didn't we contact an attorney Sherry we contacted an attorney about the no we we contacted Ed an attorney about whether that area was exempt because it was a street end under the water as opposed to a riparian area and his opinion legal written opinion was that it's all municipally owned and it is regulated by the code that is written so then we did have I didn't ask this specific question but we were trying to determine if that's how it's been Exempted all these years because they do more there for more than two hours on the regular any other comments yes please come forward Carol Weisman 310 Southwest Avenue um I'm not going to rehash all the history that's going on here with this uh issue of the moing however I do have a suggestion that I don't think anyone's ever considered but might um there are only a couple of of boats there that are used for the business of oystering and clamming only a couple um the others may have been previous years years and years and years ago or whatever or their personal vessels that are there um but have you considered perhaps we have Municipal slips in Doc Road maybe the couple of clammers could with their licenses or oystermen could get a slip there and then you eliminate the problem because you wouldn't have anybody at pulling up and docking on that bulkhead um as far as liability I mean I guess it would be the same issue um whatever the liability is for the town when they rent a boat slip on Doc road to someone you know would apply um as far as uh you know the I just want to also clarify I'm hearing once again first come first serve that the floating dock there is on and can be used by anybody that that is part now part of the Town it was put in previously by a resident one of the residents who didn't want to buy didn't want to buy the rights to uh to the water that was offered but um has a pleasure boat and installed a floating dock there um that uh same uh resident or someone else that's there has a I think 24 to 26 foot boat that is there all summer long so certainly in terms of thinking that nothing can get in there but a flat bottom boat um is a little misplaced um but you know there without any rules or regulations um there would be uh no way to enforce first come first serve what does anybody do with that and to the point of truthfully for the um person that does make a living there um good point take your boat out if someone else if I have a guest in my condo that has a boat little boat and they pull in there what you know what are we supposed to do um so it's got nothing to do with whether or not you want these particular people to be there or not it's a question of whether it's fair for anyone else who may want to H that has a climbing boat or whatever else or maybe some of the people who are even paying you rent on do Road um to not be able to take advantage of parking there so perhaps if the couple of clammers or oystermen could go to Doc road then the problem is kind of solved because you wouldn't have moing as far as safety goes I just want to make a comment that there's no easy access on those boats so people are climbing over the bulkhead during low tide you've got somebody that uses a ladder to climb up onto the boad because they certainly aren't walking all the way down or going down to the floating dock to ENT enter and leave um so just food for thought as you continue the discussion that I know it's been going off for a long time thanks thank you thank you anybody else on Zoom Sherry no okay [Music] Joe John Hal 319 Fairview Avenue Beach Haven boy this is like Revisited history um this issue was raised when I was president of the Beach Haven taxpayers Association and at that time we were really concerned with the liability issues for the burrow and I couldn't agree more with Kitty or Mike we really need rules and regulations regarding this whole area you know if you're going to Grant an exception you have to have rules regarding that exception um we were on record uh with the taxpayers association that any any uh entity private whatever who's tying up to public property has to have licensure has to have appropriate insurance so the bur is protected uh Sherry was correct the the um we the burrow did reach out to get a legal opinion and I have it in front of me and it says the buau is free to regulate how publicly owned lands above or below border are used this would include the 2hour boat parking no one would dispute the burrow has the authority to enact parking restrictions on the streets such as two-hour parking the same should apply to this ordinance so again I I think we really need rules regarding this uh we need to make sure uh that anyone tying up to public property has has a proper insurance so the burrow is protected so the council is protected um and that's all I need to say thank you thank you thank you anybody else nobody else wants to speak I close the floor to public comments and now we have last comments or by the council okay I'm just [Laughter] kidding um I feel like we've been at a meeting every week I know we have um okay so I don't really have much to say just that in response to me having a general discussion with my Council I'm permitted to have a general discussion with the council I was not voting on anything and that would be up to me whether I felt like I was uh in the wrong there but I am fully free to have a discussion with my fellow Council on any issue in General discussion because it's a general discussion other than that I just want to remind everyone that the uh Beach Haven school has their play at the end of January which is the uh Friday the 26th at 6 pm and Saturday the 27th at 1 pm Aladdin thank you oh and they're also still accepting uh Play Bill donation so if you want to get on to their playable us just reach out you can reach out to me or the PTA and you can get uh that in the in the playbill I hope all the businesses out there take advantage of that and help them out right thank you Mike do you want to speak um what can I say we've had quite a few meetings um I could see a lot of good things coming in the future and I have some high expectations on things that are going to be done around town um we um yeah it's already it's only the second week in January feels like we're close to February but um just thank you everyone for coming on this cold night it's nice to see you Jen haven't seen you in a while um had a good meeting today with um about our beach punishment and when it's going to start or potentially going to start um also um excited about um getting some work done in the Parks and hoping that um I don't know that everyone has a good week and um we'll see you see you next time thanks for coming okay I really don't have much I just want to say um everybody please remember to batten down your hatches we keep getting alerts it's going to be a nasty storm with a lot of wind and probably some flooding so make sure you take care of your property stay safe thank you uh thank you and thanks everybody for coming and uh hopefully we'll have a good year this year and hopefully Mike's right we're going to get a lot of good things done in the burough and with that I call for an adjournment thank you thank you