there she is here Mr Orana here Mr Leonard here Mr odelius pres Mr djini here Mr Walter here Mr first here chair got I'm here adequate notice of this meeting of the Bedminster Township L board was filed with Township Clerk sent to the burville news and The Courier News and to all subscribers and posted at the township municipal buildings one Miller Lane Bedminster New Jersey on January 12 2024 flag United States of America stands naice okay I'll open it up to the public if anyone has anything that they'd like to discuss comments uh that's not on the agenda put it up how about on the uh internet there anyone if you have something to say that's not on the agenda now you can either raise your hand unmute yourself yes not no we will close it in public for now and we need um a motion for the minutes from March 7th I'll make a motion to accept the minutes second all in favor I I anyone opposed anyone else no okay minutes are approved uh we have some correspondence here for an extension for Somerset go shopping center yes Madam chairman that looks in order if the board is interested you could just move to U someone can move to approve the one-year extension of the statutory protection period for Somerset Hill shopping center I'll make a motion to extend for one year second roll call Mr Orana hi Mr Leonard hi Mr Rus hi Mr gini hi Mr Walter hi Mr first hi Comm maniki my um you know I think so I don't think there was a d variance what Paul do you remember specifically um I can't remember no it was not a dear okay then I your ELD y here when we geta I okay the extension is approved okay we have a couple of resolutions we have um panas resolution I do I hear a motion so mov seconding everyone in favor sorry that's all right I Mr or hi Mr Leonard I mrus hi Mr W hi Mr first hi CH hi resolution has approved okay we also have a resolution for the center of Contemporary Art I'll make the motion second roll V hi Mr Orana hi Mr Leonard hi Mr Rus hi Mr Walter hi Mr first hi chair I resolution is approved okay um one if our 202 206 is here this is another 202 206 I will actually call it wer for the for the distinction believe wer yes because it's not on 202 no it is not 206 in lington Road um you don't name them I know we don't uh this is an application for preliminary and final site plan approval uh for an office building office retail building on the corner um think it's the fourth application the board will see on this site since since I've been around um they've submitted their information to a couple of uh relatively minor waivers identified in my letter dated April 9th it's my recommendation if the waivers regranted and application to G complet so the board would entertain it's a motion to wave the remaining items for completeness as recommended by Mr perero and to deem the application complete is there such a motion so move second I'm sorry who was the first in mat Steve Steve thank you George and George second thank you roll call We Roll Call yeah let's do it committee man hickey hi m hi Mr Leonard hi Mr ril hi Mr djini hi Mr Walter hi Mr first hi chair hi okay do need a date for that um I'm proposing to them that May 9th because that's the day that alary said that they will be here that's is that 20 is that 20e 206 correct 202 206 and ask them if they actually planed on coming which I would imagine 99.9% that they won't be um so obviously we'd like to get them on as soon as possible because we already have someone on May 2nd right okay so we'll see if they can make that all right sounds good all right all right now we go to um I guess we have a um a joint meeting here between um the historic commission and uh land board um who's GNA do this Anna I am gonna do it okay and Lou is gonna correct me when I go straight he'll fill in here and there so uh there was a joint historic preservation commission and L use subcommittee appointed did I want to say about a year ago to try to take a look at our ordinances and come up with some recommendations y um we did a pretty extensive review of the process and and how the two review processes interact and intersect um and we came up with a couple of recommendations um the first and I think easiest to implement is uh a recommendation that variances related solely to signage should not require site plan um part of what we wanted to do was make this process a little easier in terms of signage and less costly to our local businesses um we're also talking about increasing some of the bulk standards for the signs right there's a a current square footage requirement we're suggesting we increase that by 50% um allowing window stencils there are some already town but those require a variance at a site plan now because they're not specifically allowed in the ordinance um adding uh the ability to put signage for properties that have Frontage on multiple streets right so if you have Frontage on 202 206 and lamington Road you might get two signs instead of just one um and trying to clarify our sign ordinances because we have General ordinances then we have Zone requirements and then we have HPC overlays so how those all interact and interplay um if we can clarify that one of the things the HPC is doing is they are applying for a grant to get some dollars to help offset the cost of doing those what will be fairly substantial revisions to the ordinances um as well as GIS mapping um to do the to do the Zone overlays because we don't currently have that so you can't you can't look up if you have a lot in right say the one of our village districts you can't put the lot and block in and know exactly which zones you may be applicable to your property you have to look at like that which one applies right um so uh Robin is helping HPC do the Grant application and Sean BL is working on it and hopefully we will get those um State dollars to to help parent professionals to that sounds really good but it sounds like something to coordinate with Paul and Engineering too because tax map so many things could be digitized that I don't know enough about it but I wouldn't through just the one one purpose you know like there there may be a way to do it through the sdl program that the township has and just get in there it becomes complicated when properties are split zoned but there's not a lot of those yeah yes there's also times when they might be in one zone but overlapped with a historic district um so you know what what you know what comes the priority historic district or what whatever the Zone calls for so those are some of the things we want to trying to kind of just separate them out and make it easier for people applying for SS to understand what they should or shouldn't be um you know you know be held to what standard yeah it's a zoning ordinance that sets the size and location of the signage it's the HBC that reviews what they look like because this the size is set by the ordinance and the HBC reviews right but if what we maybe Anna can help me explain this a little bit better what we found um was that historic commission not NE did not necessarily have a true understanding of the Zone ordinances so that when they were approving signage they were approving it based on their historic preservation commit guidelines not Zone guelin that's that's what they're supposed to approve it based on they're not supposed to review it for zoning that's what we're we're trying to get this all settled out so everyone understands and the one of the other things the HBC wants to do with some of these Grant dollars is do sort of like a like a quick sheet guide for for local businesses so that if you have sort of an individual business owner they don't have to dig through the seven sections of the ordinance to figure out what applies there's some sort of streamlined guidance dues and don'ts right yeah yes exactly I'll give an examp signage for dummies in Village neighborhood District an example of someone came in for a sign um the historic preservation committee went through the whole thing they gave him the approval for the sign they put up the sign but they never mentioned to the historic commission that there was already another sign on the property for different business so now there's two signs on the same property for two different businesses when they're completely um against the ordinance so we're trying to get this all lined up so that the zoning officer the historic preservation committee and the ordinances are easier to understand and follow through with from one level to the next especially for the business owners it gets a lot more complicated than it sounds but that's what we're trying to sort out and I believe Frank is also working on the grant yes right crank you're muted sorry about that yep that's correct you have a mustache sorry know one more thing one more thing I'd like to add to um this is that we really found that there was a significant deficit in the enforcement aspect of our signed zoning laws ordinance and and all um many times the zoning officer wasn't even aware of some of these approvals that the histor commission had done um it we need to figure out how enforcement or review is going to take place this town because there are people who actually put up signs and don't even ask well I I think that that's actually very simple on the bottom of any historic preservation approval of a sign it should say You must apply for a sign permit then it goes to the zoning officer to review it for compliance with the zoning right but what if someone doesn't put up a sign I mean doesn't go for permit because we've sign because if and the sign stays there and no one even knows that no one went through the permit process for it well that's that's an Enforcement issue to to follow along but if if it's a question of whether or not the people know they need to get a sign permit every sign permit reviewed reviewed by HPC should say you need a sign permit from the zoning officer and um I don't know if Susan is on here she's kind of worked on I guess some of the forms or something to make sure that what you're talking about happens more consistently um but the idea is that you could go all around town and find people putting in lawn signs and other kinds of signs and and uh you know um the a signs all those things with with never even asking for permission and that's one of the things you want to trying and find a way to make enforcement more practical now I do know that we've had one of our people in the HPC was also was on the board here was going around town and then calling suzan and say hey this I know this sign is not you know legit and Susanna would be necessarily commit you know contact those people say Hey you have to get a permit for this s so we have to have a mechanism in town that enforces all of these ordinances otherwise it's just it doesn't mean any and that was some of the subjects that came up in these meetings and L am I correct I also understand that in some cases HBC would Grant approval and then what was constructed was entirely different yeah and I think we found a way to to sort of close that new poll okay right to make sure that the the approval from HPC included the drawings that were approved so that it's not just that this business owner got HBC approval it's this particular thing was approved and that's the enforcement part of it so we're trying to make it the process more cohesive with less holes and gaps in it so the enforcement becomes easier except I think DOR it sort of got out of control a little bit you know because we were trying to be Len you know and then U but it's gotten too far and it's come back right in the last year right right I know Suzanna has done a lot of Outreach to the local businesses about like this is not permitted and how do we work with you to get you back in right compliance okay good job there is one comment I'd make it at the top there variance is solely related to signage should not require a site plan it's interesting idea there might be some way to do that but technically when someone builds a new freestanding sign they are doing what is a site normally a site plan change and it's important because the setback that's required is only known from a survey so I think that you might have have to require I think just to even know what it looks like and where it's going to go and to get it placed the proper setback you probably have to have a site plan for freestanding signs even if they're not a variance believe it or not and the mechanism might be a site plan waiver right because it was technically a site plan under our ordinance if a variance is required or it's a major site plan that needs preliminary and final and it's a whole mess but if you go for a site plan waiver you can bring in what you think you need the board determines if it's enough and then the variance can be granted and that what is enough is probably a survey that shows where the sign is details on the sign but I presume most of this was about signs on buildings that's that's easier that's easier to deal with without a Cy yep but it seems like the site signed permit is the trigger here maybe we're not having enough involvement in signed permits maybe I I think what happened in a couple couple of instances there were people who went through the HBC got their approval and thought okay that's all I need it does now require Suzanna signature yeah so when I get an application back from HBC it goes right to suzanna's desk if she was not actually at the HBC we we're tightening we're trying to tighten those Loops yeah that's good how how did you deal with the what are they called the flag or W what are those called pennant signs or something like that did you did you just did you jump into that uh controversy no we it comes back to enforcement we don't like that we don't like them we don't we don't allow them I don't think but they're there so what back you want to keep it don't allow them that comes back to enforcement again it's like I understand even those kind of signs you should get some kind of special permit or there's should be a time limit on it but then someone has to go there to the business owner say you you've expired your time take the sign down but but you don't you don't really want them right we don't we don't want we affirmatively don't want and they're not committed currently either that's why do right it's like just they're easy to plan so they do it anyway right yes totally those totally allow those B up STIs uh I will now ask the planning board if they have any comments anything Mr because I believe you two gentlemen will be leaving I think no we're going to hear the no I don't think so no unless I know we're just we're doing it well it's there I don't believe there's any request for D variance but I maybe have to hear what okay what the application is okay then maybe you're staying he wants to do inter interpretations you're eligible for C variances you're eligible for site plans you're eligible not de VAR okay I can still open it up to the planning board I have any comments questions no okay anybody on the planning board no okay we'll close it uh so our next application then is 2475 lamington rad anyone here no one's here from oh wait a minute that's that's just which that is that's May 2 that's cared to May 2475 May 2 I'm sorry I'm sorry yeah it's the fine print okay yeah it is the fine print okay um so we have a new hearing we all man if you both come to the table where the microphone is why ask it's you want you want more of me me no good evening I'll swear you both in please raise your right hands do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God I do I do and please State your names by your last name and give us an address Judy krillan c r e e e l m 120 Fairview Drive admin thank you uh Daniel and C 27 East Main Street 079 thank you Daniel well is there anything for completeness on this I think it's complet no this was already deemed complete right Daniel uh would you are you an architect yes if you could I don't believe you testified before this board in the past I have you have yes oh okay so maybe just give us a quick summary of your qualifications uh I'm a register licensed architect in the state of New Jersey since 2007 um and I've appeared before this board and every other board in the surrounding areas and surrounding towns over the course of the past 15 years okay and uh where is your degree from uh New Jersey Institute of Technology okay thank you the board will accept your qualifications as a registered architect and in whatever order you'd like to proceed please go ahead it's close like mean over El that okay to you oh okay um hello uh good evening um my name is Judy krillan as I said I live at 120 Fairview Drive in Bedminster I've lived there oh like 40 years approximately um I I I love this area and um during that time there's been no changes to like the structure of my house but now I would like to make some improvements um to kind of bring it in line with current standards so I consulted with an architect and he advised me that to do these improvements I would need to apply for a variance um a side side setback variance but a variance it was in all the paperwork um so I'm here to apply for the variance and my architech is here with me to give you a I guess a technical description of the project and that's why I'm here and like he's here right so I'm happy to do that um how do you want me to tie in with just log in I'm the screen's ready to share and is there I saw the Bedminster Wi-Fi on here is there a password to get on one M yes and it's the number one right correct one numeric Miller Lan Mill Lane all one okay Sol yep sorry did you say uppercase or lower case ler lower just should I just log into the zoom yes right off here yeah I could look I mean might be easier just to type this and put in the passcode to Happ okay looks like I'm on y um and should I unmute or keep it muted keep but the screen is ready to share so you can just whatever documents you need okay and is there a um or the plug in the battery last I don't know that I'm gonna reach I don't believe that we have an ex that means you have to talk fast under under 60 seconds Memories We we all have the plans to okay yeah we all right okay okay all right so the existing house is a uh is a single story house um it's located in the R2 Zone um it's an existing non conforming property it's uh the requirement for the zone is 2 Acres uh the existing property is 1.34 Acres um it's also undersized and non-conforming for lot width uh the requirement is uh a minimum requirement of 200 feet of lot WID uh and the current property is 123.5 fet wide um so as a result it's an extremely narrow property um and coming into the site plan um looking at uh the required sidey yard setback lines um it di I think it just died okay um if you just talk in words we have the we will have them we have Point okay and just describe everything with words and that'll be fine okay um so the uh the required side yards setback in the zone is 35 ft uh per sidey yard and the um and then there's also a combined sidey yard so based on the width of the property um currently the leftand sidey yard is 35 feet um conforming and the right hand side yard uh is currently 30.3 feet so it's an existing non-conforming uh currently on the right hand side of the house uh there is a uh open-frame wood deck uh and the proposed addition is extending essentially into the footprint or into the size of that existing wood deck so not encroaching further than that taking up essentially the same footprint um and the resulting you know the a small piece coming to the side of that uh is slightly bigger so from 30.3 it's 29.7 uh is the additional small reduction uh in terms of uh provided side yard the overall combined sidey yard that's required is 65.3 I'm sorry 61.75 and we're providing uh 64.7 so we we conform on the combined sidey yard um it's a function of the narrowness of the property um encroaching into and creating a narrow building envelope uh so the proposed uh the proposed work on the house is uh still maintaining one story and essentially taking what is now uh an extremely small kitchen area and dining area and uh doing an addition to the right side of the house where the deck currently sits to expand and make a larger kitchen with an island uh larger dining area and kind of living room family room basic Living Spaces um larger than what they currently are on the house um the there is a replace the wood deck that was on the side of the house that was encroaching into the setback there is a wood deck now proposed uh on the rear of the house uh which a small sliver of that also um because it lines up with the addition uh is also encroaching into that sidey um but no further than the house um and the majority of it is behind uh and and is beyond the SEI uh not an issue uh there's also work proposed uh at the front of the house uh to expand the existing kind of one and a half par garage that is there um to widen it and both make it uh deeper uh but all of that work uh conforms with the with the front yard and side yard set so there's no variance request for that portion but that is a portion of the overall proposed work for the project um the uh you know the roof line of the house is being extended because in relation to the rest of the house the addition is fairly small and it's just to extend a portion and get more space uh all of the roof lines and material materials Windows character various pieces on the house are meant to blend in seamlessly uh not change the overall look or character we're actually extending the existing Peak across and extending that roof line um in the same plane that it is currently uh so in essence the house will look as it does now um the garage piece to the front uh to add some character to the house and and give it a nicer appearance when you're looking from the street uh is showing a uh you know hon Batten siding uh as opposed to continuing the vinyl sighing you know around the what's on the house currently uh and there's also a koala shonne on the top of that garage again those aren't anything that seeking variance relief for um but just trying to improve the appearance in the streetscape uh with the look of the house oh everybody um with the expansion uh all of the other uh requirements for principal building coverage loot coverage uh floor area are all well under uh what the requirements are for the Zone uh the required uh maximum principal building coverage is 10% and and what's proposed with the addition would only total out to 4.8% uh for the entire property uh the amount of impervious coverage being added uh is also fairly small um there's a net gain of 849 square feet well under the th000 square feet or the 2500 square foot um requirement for soil disturbance uh so no significant issues from a an impervious coverage standpoint either yeah that's that's the extent it's a fairly straightforward in terms of what the what the addition is so there's not a lot of additional uh detail or other elements to it it is that one small portion with the deck behind uh and it's the the variance uh requirement relief is specifically for uh that small amount um of of additional encroachment into the sidey yard that's really the only thing variance it's the side yard right correct so you got a deck that's thir setb back is 30.3 and you're going to 29.7 correct with the the addition would the setback would be 29.7 correct okay the requirement is 35 Fe and just confirm it seems like you're adding another bedroom too you already had there's already five you're adding another one you're getting rid of one correct the one there is a bedroom in the there's three bedrooms above two bedrooms below existing uh and the septic is uh current they actually did the septic is uh for a five-bedroom house the current bedroom that's shown on the basement plan at the lower level plan that was on the far left in the front the bedroom it really has no windows I mean it can't it doesn't have the ability to have like a real egress window there's almost no light what's that shows a window on the plan there is but it's in grade underneath a canal levered overhang on the left side of the house the same with the other existing bedroom down there no as the grade slopes towards the back that rear bedroom is actually has an acceptable window this bedroom has a small like a basement window So the plan is to turn that into a utility room yeah because AC and everything over there yeah currently the utilities are located directly next to that in a very narrow space yeah next to the current uh laundry I guess yeah yes that little room right to the side of of that existing bedroom um and there's not enough room for the utilities in there they're split into two other closets and there's also a large the main um electrical panel and subpanel for the house are also in that bedroom oh they're already there so it's not really a bedroom even though it's on the septic for a bedroom so the goal is if if they have the septic and and it was a five-bedroom house is to at least have a decent bedroom for that fifth bedroom so eliminating this and and utilizing the whole space for the utility room get the furnace get everything in there and then use the new space which has full window because it's kind of exposed basement on that side so it's a a more usable functional bedroom all right thank you you're adding so it say remaining a five-bedroom house but you are adding another bathroom correct correct yes if I could just make a couple comments relative to the septic because there are some traps I don't want you to get into um obviously if it's if the record show it's a five bedroom it's a five bedroom that's not an issue right be aware that you can't have an ejector pump to the septic system right and we're not is it's by gravity the way the other thing is and this is this is important because we recently ran into this under the septic regulations this cannot be a reconstruction of the dwelling right which means you have to be able to occupy the building during the renovation process which you can and and I'm just saying that because we had one house was completely gutted un occupiable and we've got a long problem with that right so I just want to make sure you don't fall into that trap correct yeah and we addressed all those and definitely the ejector pit so it's not an intensification of the existing system it's it's flowing by gravity off of the existing waistline that runs underneath and goes out to the existing septic okay anything else anybody else no no okay Frank anything God I do that every time sorry uh I think we've heard a good description of the kind of constraints that they're dealing with fact that they're building over an already Disturbed area uh minimizes the new impact of the footprint I do think that they're getting there's a little more mass joining that neighbor to the South and I'm hoping that the tree line would be something that's going to ameliorate that but under the circumstances it seems as though the variances or the variances warranted to allow this construction and given the floor plan of the house and the location of the improvements it's not like you could put them any other place really they go where they have to go so I think it makes a lot of sense that's all I have okay thanks M thank you just prank real quick is this um consistent with the um the rest of the houses on Fairview especially on that right side of fair VI you took photo stylistically that the houses have some differences but in terms of scale and size I think it's very comparable I think it characteristically fits the neighborhood okay thank you Frank thank you okay we'll open it up to the public anyone has anything and if anyone online has something they' like to say you can unmute yourselves you can raise your hand um you're on your phone you can star n does not look like anyone online okay I see no one in public close it so if the board is ready you might consider a motion to approve the C variance application of uh Judy krillan as described this evening as set forth in the plans and uh subject to the standard conditions to Paul and Frank's reports paulse comments tonight um and uh seems like it'll be appropriate if you want that it be effective the will be effective this evening provided they comply with all other requirements um is there such a motion oh racist Larry W but a second is appropriate okay Larry and Lou and the roll call please mayor Jacobs hi hi M Orana hi Mr Leonard hi Mr Rus hi Mr djini hi Mr Walker hi Mr first Hi chairwoman V all right good luck thank you congratulations wake up take care nice okay our next uh application is Lea Jolan evening Madam chair members of the board Larry C on behalf of the applicant Lisa Dolan and Cameron Dolan we've got sort of a unique application here tonight Madam chair members what I like to do is briefly frame it for the board and then turn it over to miss Dolan sitting next to me on the project it's a b application b as in boy I don't think the board sees them too much in my 20 years of practice I think I've had five of them maybe um B application is an interpretation application before the board it's not a typical variance application site plan use relief or anything like that or a appeal of the zoning officer for that matter it's an application of first instance before the board to interpret your own code on our behalf the reason that brings us here is Miss Dolan is under contract to acquire 11 Pottersville Road the old Pac Gladstone bank it's currently in office there's a residential unit above it's a nice old structure about one and a half acres um in the VN uh Village neighborhood Zone District Miss Dolan's part of her purchase uh involves her repurposing of this structure for a bakery there's more to it than that but high level a bakery cafe type use uh Miss Dolan and her due diligence going back a few months spoke with the zoning official and the zoning official thought it all made sense it all worked under the code under the prior resolution which back in 76 ratified the residential use above not related to the commercial use so we think we fit neatly within the code as far as the retail and service use is allowed the Zone even allows restaurants up to 1,200 square fet uh but belt and suspenders before we go too far with the deal and Molen acquires this nice property and hopes to purpose it with her her dream uh facility here we wanted to come to the board for the interpretation of the code as to whether the proposed use that Miss Dolan's going to explain is a permitted use within that zoning District as the board sees it that is the B application we have now down the road I explained to miss Dolan and and the board probably knows this as well we're probably going to trigger site plan at some point you heard Tom before explain how even a freestanding sign technically a site plan reviewable we're probably going to relocate some parking areas fix the parking circulation clean up the property anything outside the existing box the existing structure is probably going to trigger site plan review and there's probably going to be an outdoor seating component for our our patrons to sit and have a cup of coffee outside so we'll certainly be back before the board for probably site plan review at some point uh but right now there are no plans prepared on behalf of the applicant this is strictly an interpretation of the code on the use um so if no questions Madam chair and members what i' like to do is introduce you to miss Dolan and she could take you through what she hopes to do here with this property when she becomes a proud owner property in the town okay sure I'll swear in Miss Dolan Miss Dolan please raise your right hand you swear firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth so help you God I did and please state your name and address and spell your last name my name is Cameron Dolan d o Ln and I live at 38 Vleet toown Road v l i t t o WN in um Oldwick New Jersey 08858 thank you so Cameron you heard by profer to the board about what brings us here to see in a very high level as to what we hope to do here I know you've got a very strong vision for the property if you wouldn't mind take the board through that Vision what the board would see here day over day as the intended use if you acquired this property and developed it as you'd like to absolutely sure thank good evening everybody uh thank you for taking the time to hear us out today I really appreciate it um so with this property um we envisioned transforming the property into a Vibrant Community Hub where locals can gather to enjoy fresh bread a cup of coffee small Cafe menu with occasional creative Workshops the first floor will maintain the uh subd subdivision for separate businesses which will include a bakery and a small retail space second floor will remain a two-bedroom apartment at the front of the bu building a bread shop Cafe will run in the pre-existing Bank space the vision is to create a Charming space specializing in souro bread alongside a curated picnic inspired menu utilizing a market style dining experience customers can browse our selection of Freshly Baked Goods Place orders at the counter and interact with our friendly stuff before sitting down to sip and eat or take our Goods to go um there will be a full Coffee menu selections of breads dips sandwiches soups salads and Qui other quick bites um with rotating seasonal flavors providing a unique Twist on classic combinations we have a small retail space before the counter with stored merchandise homey decorative accessories locally sourced product and Specialty Goods there'll also be like a refrigerator with prepared items and other soft drinks um our customers will be able to enjoy their goods inside the cafe on the porch or outside in the yard space with seasonal outdoor uh seating um the center section of the first floor will house our commercial kitchen and production area with state-of-the-art baking equipment ample space for our team to create our signature treats us utilizing the basement um we will designate storage areas for ingredients patching packaging materials and finished products to maintain organization ensuring the freshness of our Goods um the back side of the store will have a separate entrance to a part-time retail space that will host a occasional workshops for small groups um to experience the art of making bread um we plan to operate six to seven days a week Monday to Sunday catering um to the varied schedules of our community members our tenative operating hours will be from 7:00 a.m. to 6: p.m. allowing early risers to grab their morning coffee and provide evening treats before dinner time um we anticipate to employ a team of three to five dedicated staff members a baker baresa and counter servers to ensure the smooth operations and accessible customer service we anticipate receiving giving regular deliveries one to two times a week for fresh ingredients um with local suppliers and the driveway non-disruptive to traffic in the in the area to upholder uh commitment to sustainability we will Implement comprehensive refu and recycling schedules to provide uh management uh to manage waste uh generated from our operations this will include separating recyclable materials cardboard Plastics from our uh packaging and collecting dispill uh in a in accordance to the local regulations our focus is to provide a classic New Jersey Countryside experience through simple sophistication uh we hope to be able to reach and connect with the community while we tap into the appreciation towards the nostalgic nostalgic history of the town uh providing an intimate Ambiance we will encourage our customers to gather and create lasting memories together there and you've even got a name in mind yeah um I was thinking of calling it heated with the slogan made with a temper to play on boards for the bakery I didn't hear that what heated heated yeah like h a t e d yes yeah so just a small red shop Cafe you know what I'd say that was one of the best opening statements uh you're hungry Tim that's we gave we gave Cameron some homework we said in your own words tell the board what you want to do here and that's what we got it was purpose I'd like to ask Tom um yes this B variance interpretation is there something we should understand about that well I think you understand it basically what it means is they're asking you to interpret the ordinance and whether it um allows the proposed use um but there's a Nuance here that if you read Frank's report we have a actual issue that doesn't seem something you can interpret it the vn3 zone does not allow restaurants but so the question I guess maybe Frank can elaborate on the complication of that the other issue is whether the uh retail space for the teaching of classes for people who learn how to fake thread is is a little loud use as well but probably the bigger problem is the fact that vn3 does not allow restaurants so is this a restaurant Tom let me just uh get into detail some definition before Frank talks about that because a restaurant under the under the Township's ordinance must have table service so if it doesn't have table service it's not a restaurant and this would not this would have seating for our patrons but not table service so it really falls into the uh quick food type retail service retail use so in other words you would buy your food and you'd be able to sit there yeah absolutely but you wouldn't service anyway no how many employees did you have I think you said about three to five three to five is there a something in our ordinance that just differentiates what is the primary use and what is the secondary use right because the bakery seems to be clearly a permitted principal use so that's I'll take a step of that before Paul on behalf of the applicant if we could so the workshops are are ancillary and accessory right you always have principal uses conditional uses accessory uses and prohibited uses this is truly accessory and subordinate to the principal use the workshops would be part- time and Camera could explain that further but it'd be small classes here's how you bake here's what you do here's what you don't do not too dissimilar from the book you're try to put together for the sign package the dos and don'ts of signage sort of a simplified version this is not the primary business operation here this is sort of a secondary class more for fun and for adventure for patrons to sort of supplement what you get here during the day when you come in to buy something hey I made that two weeks ago Cameron you could explain further but it's a perfect question that is accessory that is not the primary the primary use here is not education of baking or culinary arts but you could elaborate c yeah so these would be scheduled classes it wouldn't be a class that you sign up for an eight eight-week course it's more so together as like an activity to do with locals and your friends family anything to get together and just have a shared experience together or something on the creative side so not a regular well there is a space where it could be done regularly according to the drawing uh well I think my my question particularly we can't control the what's call it the frequency of use we can control the space and the sounds they're saying it's accessory and sub subordinate to the bakery so and I right I understand the the applicant's argument and I I don't disagree with it but my question is do we have some limitations on like does the space have to be accessory and subordinate to we don't have a Frank might comment but I don't think we have a specific uh square footage or anything like that it's more conceptual I guess it's more I guess one of the things that I would be interested in is is the space shared with the bakery and is the baker or someone who works at the bakery teaching the class it's it's Miss Dolan will elaborate further but it's it's all affiliated with Miss Dolan's business this is not as if she hires someone else and they run Mike's School shop out of the back room and she's in the front and they have their own key they have their own bathroom this is one operation that's the subordinate use I'll give you a very quick anecdotal example that we're dealing with today the Mayo Performing Arts Center in Morristown we've got a pending zoning application with the Mayo Performing Arts Center and they're proposing a very large addition including classrooms instructional education for the Arts and the question was well is that accessory sure it is well how you go here and you learn all of the Arts you learn your craft and you eventually make it onto the stage well how big is the space a few square feet how big is the theater it's 2,000 square feet or plus so if it feels subordinate accessory it usually is and the space we're talking about and the time that's going to be invested in this is much more limited than your day-to-day six seven day operations is that right absolutely could I just make a quick observation Madam chair yeah right I I appreciate the attempt to clarify the nature of what the real primary activity is going to be the way the ordinance is written and the highlighted language in my report shows that mixed uses of any of the above are permitted so they're not saying there's a primary use if you were talking about what accessory uses are permitted none of the things that we're talking about as subordinate are actually permitted accessory uses in the ordinance so we just want to be clear that we're not confusing the terminology and I only say that for clarity purposes not because I disagree with with the concept here in fact I think the whole idea of bringing this building back to life in a little village setting like this is really exciting and I did caution the board about the fact that there's a sort of a excessive pavement but really that means there's a landscape on which to plot when they come back for a site plan the kind of improvements that are needed the tricky part here is we're not being asked for a variance so you can't really condition anything here including a future site plan you're basically saying either yes this is we can interpret this to be permitted by the ordinance or no we can't and I say that like a lawyer I'm not a lawyer Tom maybe you want to couldn't said it better myself well so I think we just want to make sure that on those questions that you need to answer tonight we're really clear but I'm I have enthusiasm about what we've heard I think it also like someone said was one of the best presentations and clear and cogent and you know any of the details about the site don't really come into questions so you're not looking for me I've I've added some gratuitous information here about how the future might be dealt dealing with this site but truth is it's a pretty simple question I think we just have your um in your report so you've got you highlight the um bakeries not to exceed 12200 spare feet you highlight mixed uses of any of the above ring there is no more than one BL a lot uh and then right under that permitted uses restaurants stores not to exceed 12200 square feet I take it that's a standalone only and not to be combined with the other uses yeah have given the way the ordinance is constructed you kind of have to interpret the use of the word above to mean anything below is not included but I think what Paul has said about the definition of restaurant and the fact that the bakery and the coffee other uh related activities that are going to go with the bakery AR a restaurant if there's no weight staff really makes see how you can otherwise have any Bak Cree well assuming you're gonna have a bakery with with coffee that's that's a baker well Bakery it's frequent but Bakery fre coffee very boring it appears that you can have a bakery with seats without table service is not so that's that's the way I understand it at least way Paul and Frank have explained it and that's their request they're requesting that you allow them to have the bakery the shop for the goods the space for the teaching that's related to the baker um the storage downstairs um all seem to fit within the mixed use allowed as long as it's not a restaurant would sit down seating uh and F Frank has made a good point it's correct all you're doing tonight is determining and giving confirmation in writing that the use proposed is allowed in the zoning ordinance for the VN Zone district and vn3 Zone district and they will then be able to rely upon that written interpretation in determining whether to acquire the property and if they want to make changes to it they have to come back to the board for site plan but if they're using the place as is they might not even have to come back I mean it is it is a commercial building with a space for Bank downstairs and there is an existing apartment which is allowed in the vn3 zone district and so people can change commercial uses within a commercial zone or mixed use Zone but they're trying to get confirmation by in writing before they acquire it that that the use is allow I have more questions of of Frank so Frank in your uh letter you make reference to dental office an existing and that's vacating that but they're vacating they are so that's not in your no it's not part of your interpretation they're vacating in June yeah they've been there for years and they're vacating um this early this summer and just to touch on Tom's Point um you will see us for a site plan I think I mean thematically the applicant is looking to beautify the site and improve it they're going to come back they're going to make it look better sharper more appropriate well appointed so this board will see us on a site plan application I suspect and coming back to it are we being asked to interpret the 12200 ft versus the 1500 of existing I think there's the rub right there mayor the question is how does that 1200t limit affect the proposal I say that in part because it applies it doesn't say 1,200 square ft of all these combined mixed uses it seems to say 1,200 square feet for the first category B 1,200 for local retail and C 1,200 in the local service activities you know so does that mean if you call something a different use which sounds like we've heard some different classifications of what the uses would be that maybe that's not an issue I think we need a little clarity about how much square footage is being devoted to which uses if it were divided in half for instance it wouldn't be an issue if there was two bu businesses on the first floor each using half of the 1500 we'd just probably be able to say yes it's okay right now and up to 1200 obviously how many square feet is it now is it if that's the if 1,00 is the the uh issue it's a larger structure than that right now but downstairs here at least roughly is it 1500 just about 15 yeah the first floor is slightly larger about, 1500 square feet give or take which is an existing condition and so maybe I'm back to my original question which I'm not sure I have clear than stated which is is the instructional section the area for teaching classes separate and apart from the everyday baking area so the everyday baking area would take over where the where the bank used to be so that front half of the building if you're familiar with it and then where the dentist is currently occupying that would be the retail slw Workshop area which wouldn't be part of the main operation of the bakery itself that that solves the problem I'm sure that that the the office takes out enough of the space that we're back down below 1,200 for a maybe over 1200 nothing larger than yeah okay but I mean we want to document the size of the dental office but I'm pretty sure it's more than 300 square feet I mean the question is so so that's more it's more of a metric issue um for the use itself I mean not for the use itself but rather for how expansive and intense the use could be I mean the question Still Remains is the applicants propos use not withstand for all purpose and intent assume 12200 is going to be what the applicant proposed or else are coming in there for variance relief at that point but the use itself really is the applicant's inquiry their Bakery use with the ancillary details being proposed on this property in this zone is the inquiry still irrespective of the 12200 square feet that's still the question so I think to some extent you have to bate the interpretation because and in no way is this criticism you know from as the N I want this site put into use um but with without data on 1200 versus 500 I think it's it's hard to just ignore that it says 1200 the question is is this proposed use primarily a bakery I think that's an easy answer I think that answer is my perspective it's yes whether 12200 Square ft is cumulative across ABCDE e a i don't believe it is Mayor I think it's it's clear that each of those says bigger than that so but we're but we're not giving an interpretation on the size you we're just giving interpretation on is this a bakery correct that's correct and not a restaurant and you could perhaps deal with the size because if the the first floor is only 1500 square feet and if the dentist space is being used for the uh shot the U peaching location then technically it's it's two spaces of less than 1200 square feet I mean I don't think there's any doubt about that you can't I don't even think you could have a room much smaller than 300 square feet for the dentist so we don't have a picture of it but they're saying it's less than 1,200 and and I would add on that more essential question as the applicant attorney has suggested that they really need to know are these uses okay my gut sense is those uses are permitted there also by the way there's also the fact that the the bank exists as a commercial facility and has whatever space it has so that had I don't think it's going to be more than 1,200 but if it is that's a question that's for the future zoning officer to determine now based upon the square foot they come in with so I think the key is whether you're satisfied that the bakery use without table service is a bakery and whether the uh School space is a permitted use and it's seems like to me it's pretty clear that it is but you as a majority get to decide that and put it in writing I have a question um you said that the front part that's the existing bank would be used for selling a bakery Goods yeah and the the back area that's more or less the dentist office at this point you said would be for classes slash retail what do you mean by retail um so if you're selling the bakery Goods in the front what's the retail part that um is still not necessarily defined um I would keep it a family business throughout the years like whether it's antiques or home decor so small nothing major um but that the the retail items necessarily aren't defined yet okay and then the next question I have is currently that bank has a drive up window yeah do you plan on thinking that you're gonna be able to use that driver question a lot of people would that's a very good question yeah um I have no intentions for having cars drive up that was great answer that's why Rich moved right raining and d fall to that trap we'll get you both on a zoning violation if if I could just make one comment and it's going to be similar to the question that he gave the last applicant you're on a septic system out there you're putting a food surface use in the building that's not necessarily the same design flow as a as a retail office space so it may have implications relative creting the septic without a doubt and that's something that's being looked at by an engineer and then also separately Dynamic engineering is looking at a civil plan right now so they've got a full compliment of professionals already looking into that and the septic is already being upgraded as part of this acquisition but but even further it might have to be other measures in place for the the bakery absolutely well we we ize that and and and the same thing with the the Reconstruction comment applies because with the Reconstruction the septic has to be 100% in compliance with the current code and a reconstruction is something where you need a new certificate of occupany so sometimes you can do you most times you do a renovation with a certificate of approval right but certain times you may do be Co so that's that's my caution understood and that that's the intent okay and the apartment you plan to rent that I I have a question wait just asked one Steve just a minute please if the building wait wait wait for I just asked a question I'm sorry I apologize it's okay the apartment you plan to rent that yeah potentially in the future I think right now as we're building up the bakery we would occupy it um to as as residential use not as commercial use um and then potentially renting it out in the future like it has been rented out in the past anyone in there now andeve Tom if the um is the parking an issue in the sense that the building hasn't been occupied as bank and therefore to the extent it may have been non-conforming that um that it now has to be conforming on the parking when the building is used let's say as a v i don't know that it's non-conforming at all I if it were to be then there could be that issue when you change occupancy whether you trigger more parking than what is existing um and the way that gets looked at when there's a change of use from one permitted use to another permitted use an application comes in that's reviewed by the zoning officer and I and the first thing we look at is the parking sufficient for the proposed use if it's not we don't Grant the change of use and send them to the board for a site plan if if it's not exp expanded or if it's not sufficient in accordance with the with the ordinance different different uses have different parking counts and standards in other words it has to be conforming yes it has to comply with with what the ordinance envisions for that use thank you that's that's something they should investigate on their side through Dynamic engineering because that is not controlled by this interpretation right that's going to be part of the Civil plan what's commissioned down the road if if we move towards the acquisition and I don't know the numbers but sometimes bakeries and places with seats have seating based upon the seats versus square footage for a bank or something like that there a specific standard for quick food um the other thing to know we've been joking about it but technically drive-throughs are not allowed in the township at all with the exception of Banks and so you can't convert a Bank drive-thru to a bakery drive-thru without a use variance and I wouldn't recommend trying even though Larry may like that we we we have rarely allowed drive-throughs in there for banks and it's in the zoning ords that way so no section 68 on that one no I wouldn't pish that one call call it a portico or something that's right we had somebody else propose a uh a patio under under the drive-thru the Bank drive-thru okay anything else from the board no we open it up to the public Che here hi this is uh I'm Al Bola I'm um the resident at two Hackle Barney road so the um building right next to the house right next next to the uh proposed site please raise your right hand you swear firm that tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God I do and please state your name and spell your last name uh first name is albino ALB n o last name Bola Bola thank you please go ahead um so it's probably goes more towards the next uh stage which would be the site planning um but the consideration uh as a full residential home um I'm looking to see if if there are plans to um right now there's a lot less traffic right so the the dentist office is limited hours uh the bank is non-existent even when the when the bank was there The Limited hours um didn't allow for a lot of traffic we're going to be talking about a lot more traffic which I'm excited uh to hear the plan that molan has um but uh just to make sure there plans to uh create a a barrier if you would a screen uh with with um you know shrubs and trees because it's right on my driveway so right now as it currently sits anybody who Parks into the dentist office um has full view into my my driveway right my my sidey yard and and we host a lot and right now now there's driveth through traffic which nobody sits there and and is in a Leisure activity right and I'm assuming that that's going to change with the bakery people are going to be leisurely and hanging out and and and staying so my concern is more is there a privacy uh plan to sort of separate the driveway that I have and and the current um the current plan that you have for the bakery yeah so I I know your property Mr Bola um you know I can tell you that we haven't devised an engineering site plan yet that's going to be forthcoming likely if we move forward after tonight and then with the purchase um I can tell you that the engineer uh that the applicant has retained is incredibly thorough and responsive to neighbors more often than not we're dealing with neighbors who have recommendations concerns issues and we're responsive to them so I understand you you know light Splash things like that worried about cars pulling in cars pulling out I I suspect you will see a strong and appropriate buffer between the two properties especially since the uses are are contiguous but they're different um and you've also got your the board staff here at the township that's going to ensure that all the measures complied with buffering standards screening standards things like that and they'll also make recommendations above and beyond what the code requires so you've got an applicant who's very mindful their neighbors through themselves and their professionals and you've got your own townships Consultants who are there to ensure the code is complied with um for varied uses on Zone lines so I um the short answer is yes I think you will be satisfied if and when you see a site plan come forward and again you'd get notice of that meeting come in call us up meet with us we'll talk to you before we even come in to make sure that you're happy with the proper buffering but I think you'll be there anyway even before we get to that point okay thank you for that you're welcome anyone else anyone else Janine um the only other I don't know someone that has anything that's the only other person that there is that's on he's he's my partner he's on okay so I believe we're okay okay we'll close it to the public Larry anything further or Miss Dolan anything further you wanted to add nothing on M anything camera thank you so much for heing yeah do a resolution but yeah you folks have been you've been fantastic Janine was so helpful getting us on the agenda so Mr Mayor no drivethru no drivethru Mr Mayor she told me she gets to vote tonight she often thinks that way the drive-through is off the table now but thank you again F we do we really do appreciate your time this evening so so Tom what what is the motion that you would yeah the motion would generally speaking be a motion to confirm by an interpretation under Section 70b that the proposed use as a bakery without sit down service but with sitting seat seats and tables indoor and Outdoors um it's a permitted Us in the vn3 zone um as as is the proposed retail shop with the teaching area um and a apartment unit above um and that's it really are we weighing in on whether this is500 or 1200 well I think you have to stay under the 1,00 for each each shop so to speak because that's the ordinance but I so I don't I don't think you have to weigh in but you sort of have to find that that would be under 1,200 for the bakery separate from the other space can we agree that the interpretation is that each space has to be less than 1,200 and then leave it to the applicant for their site right DET we haven't provided any factual analysis on size that's right but we do have to confirm that it won't be sit down restaurant service table service restaurant and uh does that sound like it would work for the majority of the board it's all just a simple majority vote and um the mayor and committee men are eligible so I'll craft it it's a motion to find a positive interpretation uh on behalf of uh the applicant as explained this evening Miss Dolan for um the proposed Bakery uh use with indoor uh seating and outdoor seating allowed as a permitted use um in the the N3 Zone provided there's no table Service uh and it's not a restaurant under the meeting of the uh code um and that is and a u separate area for on the first floor for uh teaching classes and for retail and use of the basement as described uh with the apartment above and that those uses provided the first two the first uh two spaces on the first floor are less than 1200 square feet uh each um and this this will be effective this evening so the applicant May proceed to uh other approvals if needed um and we'll just incorporate by reference the two reports Frank's report and Paul's reports but they're not conditions if there is a change to the site it will be require site plan approval there such a motion so moved second mayor Jacobs hi hickey hi Mr Orana hi Mr Leonard hi mras hi Mr gini hi Mr Walter hi Mr first hi chaira hi thank you very much folks really appreciate your time good luck good luck how quick can you come back now sa plan tomorrow don't worry have a weekend folks by guys thank you J want say thank you to Janie one more time you're still coming back here remember that thanks again J fishing for compliments he minut take care okay with anybody has anything else that they want to discuss we can have a motion to adjourn so moved second all in favor if we felt that the ORD didn't support that should come back and ask for V yeah okay they