Mr first here miss Orana here Mr Leonard here Mr Rus here Mr gjini here Mr Walter here miss Mr wild is not here yet chair got adequate notice of this meeting of the Bedminster Township Lage board was filed with the Township Clerk sent to the Bernardsville news and The Courier News and to all ders and posted at the Township Municipal Building one mil Lane Bedminster New Jersey on January 12th of 2024 what do wrong you sh them all the way down I thought it was the mayor or something Steve Took Rich's place that's the seat Well it's musical chairs you just come in and find out where you're sitting without music without music okay we'll open it up to the public anyone has anything they would like to talk about it's not on the agenda looks like nobody's online nobody's online and nobody's online I don't see anybody in the public cor so I guess we can close that we have minutes from last week May second if I hear a motion so move second all in favor I I'm obain abstain anybody else have to abstain I think everybody else was here okay all right uh we have two applications coming up hopefully Madam chair if I could roll back to completeness for one second the letter the letter was late so it's not on the agenda but just for your information it kind of relates to upcoming applications is the bedm floor test submitted uh where they burned down they're coming in to uh replace the building okay they are at this point complete uh we make a formal determination when you have that letter in front of you because there were a couple documents they had to get in okay but um looking forward to the scheduling I know we've got the the wer application on the first meeting in June right they wanted to be on the second meeting as well but in in my opinion we should probably get BM Mr florist to start that second meeting meeting and then wer gets the time after that if it's failing okay sounds reasonable okay okay um so we still have um 2206 uh you schedule for AUST days and as she said we have 202 206 schedule for june6 so we will do that and the Florest okay okay we can uh start 2475 lington Road good evening Michael Osterman appearing on behalf of the applicant 2475 lamington Road bster LLC welcome back thank you thank you okay so at the first hearing on this application on February 1st we heard testimony from the applicant's principal member Mr van Orton as well as from the applicant engineer architect and planner uh suggestions were made by the board and its professionals at that meeting and the applicant agreed to make certain revisions to its plans and then to submit those revised plans to the board and the Township's historic preservation commission those revised plans were submitted to the board and to the h C and the applicant appeared at the hbc's April meeting at which time its revised plans were uh approved by the HBC um believe that they've issued an approval dated April 18th by on that correctly there's a copy of that in your packet along with the minutes right what I'd like to do this evening is to call the following Witnesses uh the applicant architect Mr Joseph maresi then Mr Richard van Orton and then com with the applicants engineer Mr Paul Fox so um I will begin with Mr maresi thank you gentlemen Mr Marquees do you understand that you're still under Ro yes and please go ahead thank you Mr maresi would you please present the revised architectural plans to the board and point out and discuss the changes that were made to the architectural plans since the last meeting yes of course um I have revised the plans to include the fiber cement sighting that had was discussed at the last meeting I have added the shutters to the elevations on sheet 82 there were some existing windows that were being removed that were not shown they are now shown on the revised drawings a six foot high privacy fence has been added to enclose what was the old drive-thru that is shown on the elevations and plans and a Hera was added over half of the deck at the rear of the structure has the applicant also agreed to provide in the basement of the building caged storage areas of 250 cubic feet for each of the tenants yes what colors are being proposed for the building and were those colors approved by the HBC uh the main structure will be white the doors will be a blue and the shutters are black and they were app approved by the HPC okay have you received and reviewed the updated reports prepared by the board's professionals yes I'd like to call your attention to Mr fur's report dated May 1 2024 section 3A of that report for ask for clarification about the slab under the existing shed that is to be removed the architectural plan or at least the one that was originally submitted I'm sorry which report were you referring to uh Mr Ferraro's report um dated May one thank you and I'm referring to section three R A that report um so the architectural plan shows that slab to remain and the variance plan showed it to be removed um would you please clarify that for us is the applicant intending to to have that slab remain or have it removed uh the applicant is intending to have the slab to remain a small corner will be uh removed due to uh new paper P papers walk to the um privacy area yeah so a sidewalk shown cutting across the corner of correct small corner of that yes okay but otherwise it's to be it's to okay and what will the slab be used for next question was gonna be I would have to ask Mr van ordin is it is it your understanding that it's be used as a patio yes should I guess maybe to clarify it'll be used as an additional patio because there are other decks yes and patio's already provided correct okay all right um I have no further questions I have a I have a question do we have the updated architectural plans because I don't have any here my back did Mr Mari did you make updated AR make updated plans to have the sh yeah last week not updated yeah I is the L that were submitted that you guys you have shutters I don't have the rision data there is side over I apologize may not April 29th is that the latest one no I have no is that it right there and open up Mar May 12 23 no yeah this says March March okay so I apologize I in this pile of papers got confused with last week okay you have architectural plans for the sheds we will we will discuss that with our next were there any questions from the board for the witness yes after looking at this and going through it again um I would be more favorable um if this drive-thru uh or carport whatever you want to call it were made into a garage that way it would look more residential rather than you you know having this um drive-thru that we don't have in counts and more usable for and you could eliminate a storage uh place and have a place for your trash would you consider that I think that's something that maybe the next witness can Mr van Orton can answer better okay well I just was asking the architect on that matter how that would we hadn't considered turning it into a garage um I don't know how I feel about closing off that structure completely and closing it in I mean I like the fact that it gives them another a nice covered patio as part of use of the space all right well I guess you're not really answering my question oh I'm right please ask again I don't understand well you did consider it you said um closing it making it a garage was your question has he considered that yeah okay um well yes but I don't think that's the inappropriate use for this and why don't you feel that it would be more appropriate I think it works better as a covered patio for the two apartments we won't be able to park cars in it or only one person gets a car and one person doesn't get a car well I was thinking of it more as a storage area um for for either one of them um you know and that would eliminate a shed or could could eliminate a shed all right well we'll move on we'll have Mr van wardon discuss that as well okay well let's go back to the shed so has as the architect prar to plan of the shed the shed is a pre-fabricated structure so no I have we our next witness will be we will be marking an exhibit into evidence the shed design with our next witness and and was the shed presented to the historic preservation commission yes when it's it's referenced in the report that we received the approval that we received from the HPC and approval is dated asil 18 yeah and was the architect at that meeting that was not the color okay the HPC approval letter mention the yeah number six something about removal number two on the last number two okay did you show them anything you show the the I think our next W since he was not at the HBC meeting I think our next witness would be able to better answer that question because Mr van Orton was at that meeting okay presented that to the okay but let's go back has the architect seen the  I've seen the r yes and as an architect do you think that having a shed like that is consistent with the architecture of this building as you propose it this Mary as you consider that question uh are you aware that the siding on that shed the shutters on that shed and the roof shingles on that shed will exactly match the house yes as it yes the siding is going to be ctitious fiber cement yes and our next witness will get into those details I thought it was a prefab it's prefab but it's coming without the sighting when we will Mark into evidence and exhibit with our next witness that will show the proposal for the shed and you will see that the pre-fabricated shed is coming without siding without roof shingles and without shutters because the applicant will be adding those on site to match the house that's different than the diagram we were given at the board right the planning board at the last meeting yeah yes all right please go ahead gentlemen I guess anyone else have anything the board I have one question can you review what we are approving tonight it's not the design of a home isn't this a use variance that we're really deciding on is that true yes it's a use variance it was a use variants yeah it's everything it's not really the colors of the house and all that no it's all it's all of that but basically a use variant that's right it's a use okay with a related preliminary and final site plan so can we say let's go to the end of the case before we talk about what the issues are so let's hear their their case their application the uh I had a question about the drive-thru there's fencing six foot fencing on both the west side and the street side is that correct and so it's only accessible from the back to correct anyone else on the board we open it up to the public for this architect still no one online so okay see no one we'll close okay next witness Mr van Orton Mr bordon do you understand that you're still under oath yes please go ahead gentlemen okay um Mr van Orton do you have a revised rendering for the subject property yes we do um we don't have the final production as the production company could not get it to us in the final version however we have a marked up version for submission okay do you have real you have the copies more yes so Mar do you know do you have any prior um I think we got through A3 last time so this would maybe would be A4 okay let's try that with today's date um May 9th 2024 oh you can get this Janine I'll just take a c Janine I believe this is A3 I just have A1 and A2 oh okay we'll make it a change sorry I I could be wrong but that's all I'm seeing you have enough everyone pleas thank you Mr van oron would you please present the revised rendering that we just passed out and headmore and discuss what changes are being made to that rendering sure um I have a larger uh view of it here for everybody just so you can follow so after meeting with the HPC um we determined that the uh first rendering that we showed uh had blue too much blue that would not be historically accurate so we agreed to eliminate all of the blue except for the four doors if you read the HBC approval uh the blue will be on the four doors we've not determined the exact blue we're using but we've agreed to select from the uh color palette that is required and I believe we narrowed it down to four different uh blue colors the um siding is to be white there is the siding that we we are using which is a high quality Ascend alls side siding uh does not come in the exact match of the color palette but the um board approved the HPC approved the fact that they like this quality siding and that they would accept the color that it's made in It's Made in a glacier white the siding will be used both on the uh house as well as the uh kit that we're getting for the shed so you can see here that we made considerable number of changes we eliminated um the plants that were in the ground and currently are in the ground we're doing raised Planters the raised Planters will be uh planted with seasonal flowers the seasonal flowers will be stored in the basement the uh Planters have a tray that come out and each season will replace with fresh grow growing flowers last time we talked about it matching the other property in town and that we like that uh flowerly look so we incorporated that into our design so you can see here there's a list of things that are being changed in the final rendering which we can provide for the file once the rendering company finishes it we are going to one on the uh Portico they have mist mistakenly put a post against the side of the house so you can see that that where that word remove and purple is that uh post is being removed there's no post on the side of the house the uh next item the flowers in the ground they for some reason left some flowers on the ground so they'll be removed in the rendering there'll be no uh flowers planted uh or Shrubbery planted that will accumulate trash and garbage and uh prevent a nice look from the street and then for some reason when they outlined um the rendering they put a lot of trees and bushes around the property that's not how it looks that's going to be thinned out to more match the landscape plan that uh Paul Fox will review with you later so that's the front view next page you'll see the rear view there's a number of issues the renderer did not follow the uh architectural plan so we'll go through those um the first one here is that the pergula in the back is uh not is not angled the roof uh pergula component should not be angled it's flat in the architectural plan so that's going to be changed um they did not put in uh the Wisteria that's going to be lining the uh the pergula so we're going to be adding that the um bushes from the ground area are also going to be removed there's two on the side that you can see that they left um the tree line again will be thinned out on both sides of the rendering because it's an inadequate display of what is there or what will be there the uh rear porch uh decking will be a deck it looks like it's concrete so the red note is to indicate that it's not concrete it is as approved by the board the historical uh preservation committee that it's going to be wooden deck uh painted uh the floor painted uh gray to match the front porch that we currently have um next item here sorry previous item asphalt curbing subject to cost what we'd like to do we had agreed uh at the last meeting or we had discussed at the last meeting that curbing wasn't necessary if um finances allow us we would like to continue and add that so we'd like approval for uh the option to add the curbing depending on costs is that in the front or the back uh throughout the the uh Asal so the entire driveway sor curve yeah it's a small Stone curve if we can afford it we like to do that the sidewalks uh in the original plan are all concrete we'd like the option if we do to match the pavers that the historical committee has approved for underneath the Portico um so uh we'd like that option depending on the cost um and then the slab uh so the as mentioned by the architect this rendering currently shows the slab not cut caddy corner cut so that'll be done in the rendering to show that because there's the sidewalk that will lead to the uh back porch I mean sorry the back Pat ptico Uh picnic area is the is the patio along the rear of the property to scale in this rendering it looks shallow compared to the plants uh the patio which one I'm sorry under the pergola along the deck the deck yeah it is it is to scale okay it's the Ang I think it's the angle that I mean they took the cad file so it's the exact same sizes as the cad file for the AR that the architect produced okay I think it's just the angle that you're seeing and um the last page which I need to go to a smaller drawing because I on here last page uh shows the rear from the side this view allows us to have a concept of the rear uh shed so the shed is 14 by 27 the shed was configured to provide storage for three um compartments one being for maintenance of the building second being for each and then the other two for each uh apartment we have storage that we've agreed to meet the required conditions in the basement for both Apartments however penants do will not be able to bring their bicycles and other things that they're going to need to be downtown dwellers in and out of the basement all the time so we decided that we would add the shed component as for using the Portico or the old drive-thru for a shed it's just obviously not big enough for three uses can't fit a lawn mower a riding mower or all the equipment that we're going to need to maintain the property okay nor can we we allow them to to store grills the um leaving the outside slab provides us with overflow space from the two exterior decks uh porticos that were providing the tenants we have two small units in this house two small units that for them to have people over and enjoy their residential living they need outdoor space the ptic provide space that they can share that will provide them with 100% rain coverage the outside deck provides that another area that they can share that gives them Sun uh coverage and then the Overflow being the patio uh slab that we're keeping when we remove the existing old shed that's there will allow them to put their grills out and have overflow for uh their external living so we're trying to make this as conveniently possible for residential living the um shed which I think if we can go to the next uh exhibit yeah so if I can just had a couple questions on this before we move to the next one um the areas that you show the ground plantings to be removed those will be converted to lawn areas yes okay uh [Music] um what condition is that slabbing that you're going to retain this slab is relatively new um they added the P the uh shed I can't remember the exact year but it was the last time that they were at the planning board so compared to the rest of the uh exterior concrete it's in fantastic shape it was covered with the shed in its entirety it is covered with the shed and its enti um as far as the asphalt curbing is concerned that you're going to run into problems with that the county will not allow that in the county RightWay you'd have to do a county concrete or asphalt or a granite block curb um and asphalt curving is not part of what is the the township standard Township standard would be Grant up block grant block curb so if it's if it's not going to be curbed it requires a design waiver if it's going to be asphalt curb it also requires a design I I thought the last meeting it was discussed that the curbs were not required for the driveway the the curbs are required under the ordinance if you do not want to install them the board has to Grant you a design way PA just for clarification you're saying that since a part of his property is in the county road right away they they don't want asphalt curbing correct they would want a Belgium Block kind of or a concrete concrete curbing and we're just talking about curbing on the street not curbing on the interior of the drive no he's talking about curbing throughout but I'm just I'm saying that in order to put curbing in the county RightWay you need a County RightWay permit and they're going to require they won't permit the asphal curve Paul I think's question also goes to the point of we talk about the radii that would come out to meet the county right away but into the right away I mean but then once you're on site not necessarily having concrete curving throughout the site or you saying the ordinance requires without a waiver that the entire perimeter of that paved area end up curved the the ordinance requires paved and curved part okay and if this was a new install the curving and the paving would be put in in a logical sequence whereas when an existing situation like this exists it might make sense I don't know I mean you're the engineer so I'm not trying to say it does it's the question is where does what's still there I have to say that I'm impressed with the changes that have been made here when I first suggested that there needed to get rid of a lot of pavement and that some serious attention had to be paid to every aspect of this I I think a lot of that has happened I have a question about the Planters and we'll come back to that but I think that considering how I didn't imagine in the first Hearing in the first couple of times we've talked about this that this property could end up being rendered in a way that I think will be very dignified and a decent living environment this is a huge improvement over where we've been I think if I understand it correctly that the idea of the Planters was referenced because of something else in town and is it is there something else in town down at the pizza place no it's um Sim S sim jeers Okay the reason I say that is the reason you said there were Planters was so that the plantings wouldn't tra trap trash and the natural landscape of plantings on the ground will enhance the appearance of your building way more than putting these boxes of Planters around typically boxes of Planters like that are used in an environment where if you didn't put a box with dirt in it we couldn't have plants here you've got pretty decent soil where you could have a nice landscape plant in the ground not spend money on all these things have it look more like the rest of the neighborhood and every once in a while somebody might have to go out and pick up something that blew into the I just don't see blowing trash as a good enough reason to go I I don't think that was the primary reason um one of the things that we do have right now is uh people complaining that the trash blowing all all over the street is getting clogged in the uh bushes that are there however the primary reason was for us to provide three different types of bulbs that could be stored in the basement and move throughout the year so we would have different flowers that would Bloom uh seasonally up until mid December and then uh uh come back up in the spring that was the idea and I think that's an admirable objective I think part of the question is if if the historic preservation commission saw those boxes and didn't say anything I'm kind of surprised because if we're talking about any of the authenticity of the neighborhood setting they're really intrusive if the board thinks that they're an advantage and you want to continue to do that I'm not going to say you shouldn't do that I just find that they don't I don't think they contribute anything of yeah they when I did go to the uh HPC I handed them a uh picture of the uh the patio brick that would be used underneath the Portico I gave them uh a picture of what the Planters would look like and I gave them a picture of what the shed would look like however the sample of the shed was plastic and I explained to them that we were looking at manufacturers to provide a wooden shed so if you go and look at the HPC approval and I can read it to you site plan approved note that removal of the shed result and exposed concrete okay that's not it sorry number two I'm sorry number two number two yeah new shed approved as rendered presented discuss wood black shutters black doors same roof as House White scye so everything would be the same uh I mean there was discussion that it was all going to be wood and not plastic I'm looking at what Janine is showing me is what the rendering that was presented to the HPC and it doesn't show the Planters on ground planting unless there's something else I can show you what I handed out I think it was just handed at the meeting did they hand it in to you because they took copies if they yeah if you handed something out at the meeting they did not hand it in me I just have what you gave to me to give to them was it a singular box that you showed them uh yes there a picture of the Box okay and I think maybe that's where Frank is going that you've got six boxes along the front of the building which kind of look like a lot and you compare that to the to the HBC rendering without the boxes just seems a little more even I always thought you could leave bulbs in the ground all year but I'm not well if you look at the rear it looks like they added ones in the rear also right I was just talking about the front yeah looks like they it does show them on the side and the rear yeah you know the bulbs are a attractive it's hard to argue with color like that yearend they're also high maintenance so anytime somebody doesn't keep up with it the shrubs outside that would flower routinely every year because they're growing would be there to flower every year and you wouldn't have anybody having to do anything in the basement or I know I sound like I'm lobbying against this I just don't think it it en is the setting and the building's going to be beautiful l i mean it's going from the ugliest building on the street to probably one of the better looking onths and I think I appreciate the because it's not without right changing out trays of plants seasonally is not without effort um and so I appreciate the effort but I I tend to agree that a a wellth thought out Landscaping plan might get every one where they want to be for less money and less effort overall and have the durability over time that it grows in it actually gets a little nicer looking as time goes by and other than the new routine maintenance that you say that you know you'll need to do and you'll have the equipment I think it makes your life a lot easier and I hate to you're gonna have to do anyway with the lawn all right so we're open to concede to that um can I just want to ask a question about those Planters what are the planners made of wood so they're and they're painted I'm assuming correct and what the dimensions uh they were they were made designed to match each of the railings between the uh post that's why they were laid out that way symmetrically so I don't know the exact dim 5 feet uh I think it was about six feet okay so my perception of this is that you could actually save yourself a lot of time effort and money and maintenance because you have to paint these things every few years because they're outside by doing a nice landscape plan and and being done with it um if you're not opposed to removing it no we're not opposed to it anyone else yeah I have a question not that it's important because I I'm okay I think with that sighting that you presented but it says I've heard reference to wood siding cement siding and then that's vinyl siding compos that's a what it's composit that's not a vinyl with a can we can we feel it it's not cement though right it's a vinyl X the architect on the HBC board said that forgo the color because of that yeah this is insulated vinyl signing I know because I'm doing it right now yeah so which is fine I just wanted to clarify I think it's important because word I heard was F isard the brand but there are other manufacturers s it yeah that's an insulated vinyl I remember that at the last meeting Bo like and and you presented that specific sample to HPC y okay well the HPC is not in charge of all the details of VAR no Tom what's the jurisdiction of the HPC they don't have it they are they are statutorily an ordinance authorized Board of in accordance with the municipal an law and they have they have a historic preservation commission review of sites within the historic preservation area or District um it's very important that they that their approval be obtained but is not binding on the board the land use board it is it is binding on the applicant though and if we require something else we will ask them make them go back to the HBC and if there's a disagreement between the uh land board and the HPC in my opinion the land board's decision will control thank you so if I may um a text message from Wendy um Weinstein hickey you can't use text messages in well I can print it out and show it to you if I can read it it doesn't work that way sir you have to just testify to your own knowledge so you don't you don't use text messages in a planning word for something okay uh George did you say your head I might just throw my two sense in I I I think the Planters when they're placed directly on the grass it just it doesn't seem right but when like they're against the side of the house on concrete then I think it's that's place but when they're on the grass it just it doesn't seem right that's well you you're done with planners right planners yeah I'm fine with whatever you guys said which is I just have one request everybody can meet me on a certain day and we can all go do this work we have Fone of our own anyone else on the board no have your own I have a question for Frank um Frank um in the historic district are you aware of any other properties that are using vinyl sighting I don't think I'm the right person to ask that because I haven't tried to monitor that in any way right okay I'm trying to think of all the different properties and well like I give you an example the the newly constructed Apartments have I believe a cacious uh clabbered sighting they have more permanent materials than than just buing a site it's a new site plan basically this a new site plan for a new use variants for a property that needs a substantial renovation that answer your question no not really not really but I do think that I think there's two different aspects to this okay one is the cost and durability Factor right cost more to have product from the perspective of the historic preservation commission and the character of the neighborhood you're looking for that siding appearance and you're looking for it not to have features built into it that are kind of funky and maybe you know modern you wanted to look like it might have looked as deciding on building exactly that by that measure it doesn't really matter whether it's already what you don't want is a vable product that's flimsy and they could be damaged and that's going to be hard place later I mean the Hardy Board is a great long-term investment but at the end of the day if the star preservation commission said that dimensional V works for them I think they're saying that it's the right appearance of the side okay that's and I think I might be wrong but two houses up on the opposite side of the street I think is vinyls well houses houses are not subject to this review right but I understand I'm just I'm just trying to picture the neighborhood they don't require s the building right next to us is vinyl where the chiropractor is it is okay all right well that's what I just want to make sure that we're you know similar to what's going on in the neighborhood not something completely different thank you okay all right no a okay all right we'll open up to the public well I think he was going into the next exhibit so so we oh okay so continue yes thank you so section three Roman 3C of Mr Ferraro's report requests architectural plans for the proposed shed the applicant is proposing to purchase and install a prefabricated shed I think you indicated is that correct correct okay um do you have a written proposal from a manufacturer that includes a floor plan and renderings for that proposed shed yes I do okay we like to have that marked and pass it out so everyone can see what other M I guess this would be now a four yes four five9 thank you thank you Mr van Orton the shed proposal just marked and passed out indicates that the shed you will be purchasing will not have siding shutters or roof Shanks um can you point out where that is by the way on the plan where it says that sure um should say on page one you'll see the data sheet of product sheet from the manufacturer the uh generic uh Dormer shed standard Dormer shed is uh depicted on the left-and side this is the general concept that we're using the only difference is that we are not um having them put on the siding or the shutters or the shingles or the trim work that's going to be needed because we're using the same that we will be using on the house so can you show them where it says that in the bottom right hand corner yeah so on the bottom right hand corner according to the custom quote okay you can see a depiction of of the house uh in the larger size and the floor plan plus the fact that uh it's omitting those items yeah it says customer to supply siding shingle shutters uh attached to this is the quotation that we received from them for this uh which further depicts the same uh one of the things that we'd like to uh to do is um based upon affordability um to have the 15 feet uh mean roof height uh but the option that it does not have to be 15 fet if we run into a financial problem Pro providing this exact shed with all the approvals that we're seeking the what would the height then be uh the smallest would be six foot walls with a 11 by 12 uh slanted roof so I don't know what that height be would be but um that's that's the the smallest that they would have but we would like to have the bigger talking about taking the height out of the wall and not the roof pitch correct um what is the wall pipe Li [Music] diagram I just know that the total with with the the uh Peak was 15 feet which is the maximum required by the code just looking at the plan um can you can you tell us what that height is right now I can't see it can you see that that that's six feet because that's the standard size so if you look U at the picture the depiction of the front of it which is in the middle of the uh section underneath the standard Dormer you'll see the front uh doors and the windows right you'll see 14 feet it's 117 for the wall size 14 14t is the maximum that's the max the wall size is 117 and a half I think where do you see 117 right next to the 14 ft last uh figure on the bottom right where the height indicator is on the right hand side okay Mr vord what is the ideal height that you're looking for well we we thought because of the units being so small and that the tenants would want to maximize their storage so we would put a little Loft shelving area for them to store things that they can't store in the basement because the basement is damp again we're trying to make it conducive to habitable bit yeah nice living for the people who live there and we literally have three closets upstairs in a two-bedroom unit not much storage space the basement is partially uh new construction new concrete but most of the basement where the area that will have the um the locker space for them the Caged in area is the old basement smelly damp I wouldn't want to keep my stuff there I understand so my my concern or thought is that the house or the building itself is not very large so we you wouldn't want to necessarily oversize or over over height the shed to make it look like a separate structure I think it needs to look like a shed and so can I can I ask I don't know if if Frank wants to on that too in terms of the the height difference maybe he doesn't maybe he can go to the second level 12 feet high or something well I mean that if we're talking about how does the height of the shed compared with the height of the building yes chances are good that the two and a half story height overall is about 25 ft so 14 foot high shed in the backyard would certainly not overpower the height of the main building and the proportions of the build shed it's a lot longer than a typical shed in light of what's needed here seems like it makes sense that that's about side so and again having had the Hisar preservation commission looked at it think that that I think we situated in the size of it won't turn out to be there lots of sheds that are taller than 11t right couple more feet it's couple more feet it's just not a lot more feet yeah if I if I can um the closest structure to where the shed is going to be is the pergula um Joe what's what's our height of the pergula uh 10 feet off a grade so we're looking at maybe uh four feet more at the peak of the roof I don't know if we'll see that much of a difference because it is a 11 by 12 uh slope on the uh on the roof I think it's seven on 12 I'm sorry s on 12 we're I'm just trying to understand so you understand where I'm coming from proportion you know you've got this two family house and now you have this either appropriately fitting shed behind it or this gigantic shed that doesn't seem to fit behind and that's all that's all I want I try to bring out different concerns things like so if we look at um their standard where it shows a 12 foot Peak then we're at 11 foot Z on the sides so I mean if if you want me to concur that we'll maximize 12 feet then I could do that because I don't think that s Ines is much of a difference for us to have sh I tell you I'm not quite sure I understand with the if you have a 12T I don't understand the 12 foot and the 11t I see where the numbers are but it doesn't make any sense to me that if you have a 12 foot high shed you have an 11 foot high wall smaller Heights there are even lower than the wall right it's the height like you have 6ot high shed how do you have a 9ot what what I'm thinking is it's a six foot deep shed is 9 3 in tall a 14t deep shed is 11' 7 in tall yeah the number reversed you're saying I'm saying that the the number on the left is the depth of the shed and that ties to the seven on 12 pitch which gives you the overall height on the right hand to so 14t deep shed has 7et of going up at 7 on 12 so I also think it might is roughly three and a half ft that makes more sense it might be overpowering also if the wall is so large how high are the doors on this and that's and that's where if you look at the image on the left versus the image on the right what is the height to the to the sill right or the the edge of the the bottom of the roof and how far above that is how far is that the doors right that's what I was thinking you know might look too too overbearing if the wall is so like on the right hand side it looks like there's at least two feet above the doors to the eve right on the left hand side the Eve is even with the doors yeah so that is uh an error by the uh manufacturer when they produced the image for me they said that they didn't have time to correct the uh the Dormers and the Dormers are appearing in the um in the shingled area they are going to be exactly as you see them on the left hand side uh in the standard I think he talking about something else so um but I'm talking about the the height of the top of the door versus the E okay and I think that's that's what we're getting at the question is what is the height of the wall the height of the yeah the E how high is the wall yeah so um on the left hand side it looks like it's about 6 F feet high because it's probably a six foot high door maybe seven foot high door on the right it looks like it's nine or so what what would be the appropriate height um that you think would be acceptable um for the top of the before before he anwers that let me just point out fact that I think is in evidence here and that is as I look at the um sketch directly above the um picture of the front picture the plan showing front elevations I think it says 6' 7 in a l looks like 6' 7 in looks like the height uper real okay and that if that's the number that's the number that's fine that's where you get the overall height based on the depth of the shed and the chart below but what is a little bit wonky is the image on the right because if it's a 6 foot7 Eve height and your door is two feet down from that you have a 4 foot s High door and those windows are are even lower so it's right so I I think I think what the board should focus on is not so much the image on the right the portions on the left correct because it's going to be the width and and door layout and window layout I think on the right but proportionately it's going to look like it does on the left yeah and if you have a 14 foot you know spacing side too I mean these people are departments they need ladder to use some of that storage you know yeah 14t I would say well it's 14 feet to the top but you've got that to the top have 10 11 for construction the maximum and this requires a foundation right well well there will be a construction permit required because 200 square feet and I can't really see the measurements on that but the overalls what what are is your copy show the 14 by 27 14 by 27 yeah it's onage giant mean it's on this page it's just too small to Le yeah I see it in this diagram what are the lines show in front of the windows on on the plan on the second page is that is that like an option to like a f door or something um it's almost like there's like a wall in front of the window the door oh you're talking about on the price quote Yeah it's actually on the floor plans on there's like these like looks like like a wall or a door in front of front of the Swing doors and the windows it's the horizontal blue line you see that the doors on the right two units and it'sing just that's not going to be there it's just now the the blue line behind the two windows you're talking about on the left hand side the Blue Line shows the Dormer yeah oh that's that showed the ders yeah that's that's that's what he told me that that was the Dormer and the Dormer is coming down to the height of the uh top of the doors which they're standard size doors but unfortunately when they shrunk this picture they it wasn't the scale and yeah they probably I would have shown that that that Das or something piting something up okay I asked them to do it in color so I could give you the best depiction so just remind me the dimensions length and width of the shed uh 27 by 14 the main component on the leftand side with the double doors would be for maintenance of the building storage of the riding mower and anything that we need for M uh outdoor maintenance and then the other two units would be to size uh for storage with the idea of having a shelf area for them to you know store boxes off the ground so each of the tenants would get one of those faes correct did you say the was 27 by [Laughter] 40 bigger than the I think Paul was right about his interpretation gives you that height 11 yeah I agree because the shown in in in the building renderings is a bit smaller in height yeah that looks like it's but that looks like it's about 12 feet right if that it looks like it's about the same height as the back the first floor of the house like the E height right it's a little taller than where the P starts which is okay so Mr van Orton I I think you were you've already pointed out that the the uh Dormers shown on the renderings on the right side of the first page uh are inaccurate and that the ders will actually match the depiction on the left on the left of yeah and then uh the doors will be solid panel doors uh because we chose that we didn't want light uh I mean uh windows on the doors um and I believe there was a comment made that the the shed uh doors typically didn't have historically windows on them anyway to comment by who uh at the HPC I think that was part of a conversation so the HBC said they wanted solid well they didn't say they wanted solid they just said it wasn't typical when I said we're not we we don't want to have Windows on the doors comment was was typically in a shed in that period you didn't have Windows on the door so it'll match roughly the side door on the house correct to be correct yes um we we limited the window space uh so we four windows on the side facing the house so we don't have any uh issues with people breaking into the shed from the back if that became an issue um and then like I said the uh shed would be delivered non-finished where we would utilize the same siding matching trim uh we would match the shingles as closely as possible uh with the house and then um the only thing would be uh different would be the doors would be solid black and uh everything else would be white because uh the typical shed didn't have color doors and what about the shutters and the shutters would match the shutters smaller in size but match the shutters that are being used on the house so regarding the height of the of the shed I'm willing to uh guarantee a certain height that the board feels comfortable with that would not be overwhelming um the height is going to be 11 feet 7 inches yeah okay I'm telling you what the height will be based on what they're telling you that's fine so that'll be the height at the peak of the roof be right can I ask you at The Stockade Fence and the sidewalk that's just to the right of this on the site plan is's a site PL show the variance plant shows stockade fence with nothing in it I think one of the the survey showed a shed there is that shed being what's happening there uh you're talking about the rear of the building yes um on the right hand side yeah there's a 4ot sidewalk that runs back to a fenced area right and I somewhere it said that there was a shed no there's not a shed there's an existing stockade fence that was used for a dumpster area the dumpster's been removed and our first visit to the board historical commission was to paint that Stockade Fence blue and that's where they approved the blue color we painted it and that's where the storage or the garbage will be the roll out cans that the tenants will use okay it's existing there's no change there's an existing slab I have no further questions for Mr van Orton you have any uh I I just don't know if we've solved the question of curving and you may want to work that out with I was thinking about that if we need to comply with the county for having um the curbing at the right away I'm if I'm quoting you right Paul in the county right away you're gonna have to meet the county standard right so um and that standard is either cement or stone curving correct okay so we like the option to do that to comply and the option with the town for everything outside the county purview uh to be either asphalt or um asphalt with no curve which is I think what we talked about last time you're saying we can't do that I'm not saying you can't do that okay the ordinance requires that there be a design W okay I I'm not saying you have to do anything the board's got to decide which way it's going to go or uh if we have enough uh funds to uh put the stone curb in is there existing curbing on the interior of the site now no for clarity he's talking about a curb radius coming in from the county right away it wouldn't just stop at the RightWay line in order to complete the radius right it would probably come into the property some distance well I'm I'm assuming it's going to follow the existing edges of the pavement right now which you know it it did not really formal radii and it's not laid out it's like you would lay out a new driveway that would be but any curbing in the county rways and once you go for that permit they may tell you how you might have to reconfigure your driveways right whether you have to put a radius on it or not it would have to meet the county standard for curve and the county standard for curve is either concrete or Granite block but the board in my opinion can require the granite block if it's going to be in the if it's going to be installed I would not suggest concrete curve in the in the right beat up would he have to get a permit from County yes and like I said that can that can change the configuration of the of the driveway it can change what you end up having to do with the aprons that might cross the driveways ramps and and if we wanted to do a design waiver he he wouldn't necessarily have to put any curving correct and there are other properties on that street that don't have curvy there's there no curb is not uncommon in this area and you want my opinion no Asal too if you want my my opinion I would I would Grant the design waiver for the curb because if you start going in there to try to get this curb in the county RightWay um you're in for a problem you're gonna be sorry you're gonna be you're gonna be sorry you asked for it okay with that and if you try to cut the curb in around the edge of the newly cut pavement it's it's not like building new you've got and and and I'm worried about the county completely reconfiguring driveways they're going to be looking at the width they're going to look at the radius they're going to change all those things so if they show the the compliant curbing none of that will happen if they know no C if they don't if they don't put any Curby and keep the driveways the way they are right Count's not asking for any modifications to the driveway at this point right I would not ask for a problem we've discussed it we agree we think we would ask for the waiver to eliminate the that seems fa makes sense yeah did we just conclude something and come to an agreement apparently well there are no agreements until there's a don't bring it up anyone else only the only thing I would ask while Mr Bor still there is that is we going to replace the planters that obviously what's going to get planted in the ground won't be what you were going to put in the Planters more than likely and you'll want some shrubs and things so I presume that Mr Fox will come back with a different landscape plan that just so the board knows we're not going to get past that part of it without seeing the new landscape plan but I think I've seen enough of everything else to know that this has really moved in the right direction in a big way I think also the original landscape plan had Shrubbery in it that I removed after the first meeting yeah you you might already have what we need so how many things are like not solidified at this point in this application I don't think anything is because we got to hear Mr Fox first right and then then I think everything is on the table and you can start to go down through all the items that I'm sure Tom's been noting not open items and need final determinations by the board but I think prudent to hear Mr Fox's testimony because some of these things will tie into the layout prepared did we open it up to the public I think this witness we have one Anonymous person on on all that's there's their phone number so if you wish to say anything you can unmute yourself you can raise your hand you can star nine from your phone and identify yourself is the zoning top top one is the zoning bottom just the bottom one oh yeah so I'm assuming if we if you haven't done any of those things that you have no questions or comments at this time gu not okay and we'll close it to the public good thank you next witness yes next witness Paul Fox still watching myself on the camera because my hair is not that great I agree with you Paul you're still under you're still under Earth Mr Fox please go ahead thank you yeah none of us are movie stars there Mr Fox would you please present the revised variance plan landscape plan and lighting plan to the board and explain what changes have been made to those plans sure so this is the revised site plan and after our discussions at the first hearing we moved the parking backwards so it's now behind the front line of the home we eliminated where originally The Refuge was going to be stored up here we decided to use the existing refu area in the back of the site and then just have a gravel pathway going back there which I think is an improvement because not garbage cans close to the house is a definite benefit in my view now Paul you said that you just said a gravel path what it's labeled as a sidewalk yes as a sidewalk I think we treat it as lock coverage whether or not I understand but what is what is it going to be I I see sidewalk and I assume concrete uh we could use either really I think probably this concrete would be a better choice for durability No Doubt so I don't think that's issue again the existing fence in area certainly is large enough for the required containers so there would be no change to ex area there I would note that our plan indicates that uh the uh slab where the existing shed is would be removed uh after discussing that with my client he indicated that to remain so we would update our plan however uh that's a fairly small amount of blck coverage we would still be substantially below the permited blck coverage and still be creating a substantial reduction in the lock coverage for the site the other uh significant change do you have a ballpark of what that would be I mean I know it's only uh so it would be right just over 40% it would be just over 40 just a shade over 40% we're still comfortable under the 45% the only other significant change was showing uh the proposed deck in the back of the house uh as Mr farar pointed out in his letter our join does not show the perola just because it's a little bit difficult to show on top of the deck but that would just be a wood structure as most of us familiar with that with respect to the curving I think my preference would also be not to have curbing because if you were to introduce curbing it creates grading problems to work we're trying to work with the existing site improvements in the existing grades we were to introduce curving that creates that problem Additionally the site right now and what we're trying to create is a low intensity residential use and I think adding curving to that would move away from that look so was there any questions about the changes that we made to the site oh I did want to uh address one item from the chair with respect to where the drive-thru is when we did the original application for the bakery we look looked at the existing storm water piping on the site that comes from the back to the front and what we actually discovered is it hooks under uh the far end of that uh drive-thru so trying to construct the new structure create a structure like a garage on top of that probably would not be a good idea because of the existing storm water pipes that are there Mr Fox um without it if we decide that we're going to do a waiver on no curbing do you have any concerns with storm water management on the property without curbing being to direct to water we would be keeping the existing storm water uh flow Direction and the overall small Watershed that it creates we'd actually be reducing the amount of storm water resulting from the site because we're cutting down on the amock coverage okay I I'm looking at this and I I don't like to go in circles but sometimes I have I can't prevent myself but I might suggest curbing on the inside radius the gro the asphalt curbing on the inside radius because you don't want Vehicles going onto the grass that'll protect the edge as far as grading going to be redoing the grass in there anyway taking the pavement out so you should be able to make it work but um I I'm not going to say require it but I'm saying consider it on the inside of that of that radius so cars don't sure te up the grass that's a good good point uh any other questions for Mr Fox will you be talking about the lighting yes no it's was going to go on the Landscaping then the lighting okay Landscaping so the Landscaping plan uh as we discussed at first human is based on what the board approv as part of the applications uh as far as the changes between that plan and this one there are really only two significant ones first what we had provided on our plan was the flower beds uh for the flower boxes going around the building itself sounds like we're going to be going back to the shrubs so we'll just use the original shrub proposal that was improved as part of the big plants uh the only other significant change is on the slope here my client requested changing that to from the grass to a low ground cover because it's easier to maintain less likely to get torn up by a lawnmower trying to go side slope on it which area is that Paul I'm sorry which area is that so that is the area between where the proposed parking is and the side property line it's cross-hatched in this area right here it won't be mulish it'll be the ground correct correct so that were the otherwise we're showing the same plantings of trees throughout the site uh to essentially replace all of the ash trees that have been lost over the last five years on that side Landscaping anybody now before we we move on there was one issue that I think came up in Mr Bar's report I wanted to ask you about I think you raised an issue about the bumper curbs yes that are proposed uh I think a waiver for that is is required and the applicant is asking for that waiver is that correct right we would use the the bump stops at the end of the parking spaces rather than having curving just so cars didn't pull too far keep going with the bump stops be the concrete version uh pinned down with steel pins or some I believe that's for the detail on the plant shows okay yes they're more durable okay uh the other ones ultimately because they're black they end up being a trip Hazard because people don't see them as easily okay I've seen that over at the post office in Far Hills where they just kind of uh they're not as visually obvious unfortunately okay land plan oh we talked about the landscape plan so the lighting plan uh the engineer that prepared the lighting plan couldn't come tonight but she did ask me to just roughly explain what changes were made to it you know before you do that um I we need to pass out copies of that landscape plan so uh the lighting plan I'm sorry the lighting plan we have think we have it um same as this no I think that uh in response to Mr fl's report um our lighting expert prepared a revised lighting plan to address the comments in your report and uh I want to pass that out thank you what's this number Janine it's gonna be 85 85 thank Youk oh here we have we have an extra one good thanks thanks yeah okay for the record assist Mark is A5 right okay and that's got a revision date of May 1 is that right yes yeah Vision number two yeah please go ahead so the primary changes as was noted uh the post top light was changed to a more historic looking fixture uh this was also night noted in the lighting schedule and the bulbs in that fixture the source of Illumination was changed to LED as far as the uh the specification for the L2 light was revised to lower the level of Illumination and there is an added L5 light and that's shown also on the schedule changing that fixture reduced the overall average amount of Illumination however a design waiver will still be required because there are certain small are is directly under the lights where the illumination will exceed 4ot handles after looking at this I would be you willing to work with Mr F's office to uh make any other further refinements to the lighting plan to make sure it's as unobtrusive as possible and also address any concerns about the temperature uh Kelvin of the proposed LED lights to make sure they match what else has been approved at the site two houses down the road so you're asking to have uh more illumination than what our ordinance requires so directly under the lights it's over 4.0 foot candles so for those areas we would request a waiver and what would it take to get that into compliance I I don't think you'll be able to do it it's it a very common problem with LED lights they tend to be hot directly underneath them but they're also have very sharp C offs so you don't have the big problems that you other otherwise would have this site was well overlit before when you're up over 25 foot candles that's a lot this is this is much better I think with a couple of minor tweaks it can get down a little bit more but um based on what I'm seeing here is I don't have a lot of problem with the design W for these levels and the biggest problem is on the the right hand side of the building and maybe if you spread those two lights a little further apart you're going to drop it down a little bit more and I think you're being with the two l5s on yes just spread those two l5s apart a little more they won't overlap as much you might even be able to do with one this whole area is more well lit than other parts of town anyway with the inter and everything else and that that's the thing if you have a very dark area you only need a little bit of light the more well lit the area is the more light you need otherwise it looks dark it's kind of counterintuitive and then the L3 fixture that one is the the El open I mean can you see the the bright light or is that one no the actual source of Illumination is actually in the roof of the fixture in the L3 right right gotcha any questions for the lighting all's good I'm good yeah y y yes we can open it up y uh opening up to the public again if there anybody there that has any questions on the lighting Landscaping anything else that Mr Fox just covered you can unmute yourself raise your hand just star n that's not see as if the one online participant has anything okay then we'll post it to the public thank you Mr Fox I have no further Witnesses so I guess the question is is the board prepared to move forward with this tonight um make a decision on this application tonight if so I have a few closing remarks Min closing remarks but uh if not I'll hold off on those how does the board feel about that um we have quite a few changes that we would like to make I guess we have Tom meet him off for us then he wants to give an closing argument I know I do yeah I'm asking the board if do you want to you want do all the changes in one place so we know exactly what everything is yeah so from my perspective the only rendering change is the landscape plan right everything else we've seen right like curbing is curbing we know what curbing looks like know we do um so that's the only one that I my inclination is to look at it pretty sure that's what's open and the question would be does the board feel like could improve it subject to a plan being submitted which puts the burd on Polar ey you seeing it before it gets approved or do you want to see a Revis plan that shows that stuff before you say yes well the change is only going to be the removal of those big boxes and just some planting if we're reverting back to the original one my inclination is to let you guys handle it but I'm happy let me ask you something in that regard because I think the testimonial Landscaping plan was the original one that was approved was primarily shrubs boxes were had a lot of seasonal flowers in it and the question is when Frank looks at this plan would you like him to make sure that it includes some some colored plan we would purples and pinks no no no I'm asking you do you want I was kidding you want that kind of you know in there like daylo or something like that that come back every year I'll work yeah work it out we want something that looks signified in a residential set right we're not try we're not trying to hide in we don't need to BU we want access the building with some nice greenable stuff I think work so the board satisfied to yes is not but see you little convinced nobody really cares about that oh I wouldn't say that I wouldn't say that everybody matters everybody matters mrman would like to give a closing I just had a few right discuss so at the February 1st here during the applicant's planner Mr stack testified and provided the planning justifications for the requested use variance uh at that meeting the board suggested certain changes to the plans and additional details to improve the applicant's proposal um the applicant has made those changes and I think you've seen that and pretty flexible about working with you to really improve this plan um we now ask the board based on the revised plans that have been submitted and the revisions that have been agreed to this evening um uh we ask you to approve this application based on everything that's been presented um we'd also like to discuss the timing of everything there's one issue that I want to bring up and that is um if this application is approved the applicant plans to proceed immediately with all the work the siding um the asphalt removal the paving the Landscaping the deck the patios the applicant is prepared to S all that immediately um since there's no interior work that is necessary um he would also like to ask that he'd be able to proceed once if and when you granted an approval you'd like to be able to proceed with releasing the downstairs apartment also immediately before the work is done right because the work work that's being done is all exterior work and he's going to do that the site plan has to be done before the the the build the units being occupied is not being occupied permissively okay of course it's it's you're gonna be occupying two units without the site plan being complete site workk being completed I have a particular problem with yeah I I have a big problem with that because the applicant hasn't shown the way the property's m tained to date doesn't add any credibility to the fact that things are going to be done in a proper manner unless it's absolutely required more you I agree with Steve this is this is a complex also we we need County planning board approval no matter what before a single thing is done period I don't even know if there's a county application um if I may I I'd like to recommend they let me put up a bond to finish the work with a certain period of time we're not allowed to take bonds anymore the amount of work that I'm doing on this property which has been vacant for over I think close to 10 years and uh the fact that the board has been so content on making sure the improvements are being made and then uh the fact that I'm not able to occupy the inside with a tenant for a unknown period of time right now because we're in the midst of um construction period which all I have to coordinate all of this to be done I mean we're looking at besides the cost of this process probably close to an additional $150,000 worth of work so none of this know this is relevant none of this is relevant we're looking at it as a blank slate we went over that it's tabula Russ you don't benefit by having done work without permission you don't get a detriment yeah but you conv only mentioned it when it's your when it's your from day one right sir thank you very much thank you we are concluded okay thank you all right Tom how would you like to proceed so one thing that I wanted to hear from the board was well why don't we try to do it with conditions and see if you have a majority unless you want to have a deliberation without a motion would you like to have a deliberation without a motion we want to discuss it I think a motion would be helpful okay motion okay so if this motion this is a motion to approve a d variance to have two apartments in a building that is not allowed to have two apartments but is only allowed to have office or retail downstairs and an apartment upstairs and is limited to one apartment um The Zone uh does not allow a multif family building or a duplex uh it at most allows one apartment upstairs again it's tabula rasa it doesn't matter what the applicant has done or not done uh either for or against the application you know what that means um if the board were to Grant so this would be a motion to approve the the D variance to allow the two apartments as proposed but with all of the uh revisions proposed compliance with Paul and Frank's reports and their comments tonight uh compliance with the standard conditions uh they'll also have to have revised plans with a revised Landscaping plan without the Planters in the front yard although some planters might be proposed if prefer by the applicant in the side yard on the pavement if appropriate uh the Landscaping plan will be consistent with the ordinances and will be subject be similar to the bakery Landscaping plan previously presented by Mr Fox and subject to the review and approval of the planning board planner any dispute with the planner shall be returned to the board final determination it'll also be subject to the conditions of uh the HPC uh they will also uh there's a waiver being granted for uh the requirement to have Belgium Block curbs except that it is not granted on the interior driveway so that tell I I don't say don't grant that waiver I'm I'm letting that be discretionary on on behalf of the appc just I would recommend that it be done oh okay okay so the the waiver of Park of P of Belgium Block curbing which is a requirement of the ordinance is granted with the applicant authorized to install Belgium Block curbing on the inside of the driveway and parking lot to help prevent cars from going up on the uh landscape being grass the grassy areas of or yards of the inside of the parking lot and driveways the uh curbing is also waved in the area of the parking spaces and a waiver is granted to allow concrete U parking stops as describing by Mr Fox the lands the lighting plan is approve as revised is approved subject to the review and approval of the planning board engineer in the field after installation with u cooperation being expected by the applicant and Mr Fox to U address concerns if any raised by the town ship engineer about the the lighting um the applicant sh to a concrete walk uh to the exterior to the existing refu area um and shall U uh utilize the same type of sighing and Sim uh same color sighting on the wood shed to be obtained from an offsite shed manufacturer as described in the testimony and in the exhibit with the uh Dimensions explained and the height maximum I believe of uh 117 right and with the uh shutters to be similar to the house shutters uh but the shutters to be black and the doors of the shed to be black in color um and there was a question whether you wanted to require cous uh Hardy hard hard plank as opposed to vinyl sighting so if the moving party would state that I'm sorry could you say that again there was a question whether you wanted to require a cement cement board which which is a harder substance than the propos vinyl s sighing uh and if the moving party would state that that would help me and and with respect to the vinyl siding it would be the insulated vinyl siding that's presented which is a little more uh a little more substance to it than just PL vinyl which can warp and and look like cheap and was already approved by HBC and was approved by HPC correct so if the board if a moving party moves this and a second occurs uh this is a use variance and related preliminary final site plan which requires a affirmative vote of five members of the seven member board if it only obtains four votes that is a called a statutory denial and would be a denial if it only obtains three votes that that is a denial um so five affirmative votes are required to carry this entire applic ation if it was to be approved failure to achieve five votes constitutes a denial Tom I would just like to put one one other thing on the record before because there's some discussion about sequencing and how all this works um prior to the site work we've got to get it and this is standard for every site a an estimate of the site work um has to be prepared by Mr Fox presented in my office we'll approve it there'll be a uh a an escrow established for the inspection of the site work as it goes in and we have to have a pre-construction meeting before it starts all that stuff can be done fairly quickly but that all those uh boxes need to be checked before the work can begin yeah and I said it before but we'll say it again County planning board approval is required as a condition of all site plans in the state by both the County Planning Act and the municipal land use law so that absolutely is a itial before really any building permits are issued and before any cosos are issued but we also need these other things to be fulfilled as well Thomas the uh resolution specifically going to address the request uh that the uh apartment can be inhabited prior to the time that the work is completed the board it it was not because in fact technically they permits and cosos can't be issued until site plan approval is perfected meaning the conditions of the approval are met well since it was requested maybe be helpful would be memorialized so there's no question yeah I don't think there's any question but I don't even think the board can wave that actually that's the County planning board approval is a predicate to a building permit and the township requires these steps to be taken and completed before you get building permits you really have to do your site improvements well the site imp provements don't have to be done before you get a building okay but the before you get an occupancy right which shouldn't have occurred already so we can't cure the past and we're not these things have to be done if you even approve it if you don't approve it just let's go over that if you were to deny the application the applicant is left with a zone that allows you to have offices or retail on the first floor and an apartment upstairs but not the proposed two apartments and not a duplex house and if it is denied can the can continue with the there needs to be a site plan approval for that mixed use right which has different parking configuration and different standards much more like the bakery site plan approval that previously existed on the property property but with an apartment so it needs to get an approval so we could there is a way to deny and keep jurisdiction over revised plans to comply with the ordinances or better comply with the ordinances that's something the board might add to it if it were to deny it that might be something the board would allow continued jurisdiction for uh makes some sense here because the zone does allow for you to have an office or retail on the first floor in an apartment above so is there a is there a moving any questions me I can probably repeat the motion yes please you know I just want to say I appreciate you know the improvements proposed I think they're great but I also believe that these exterior upgrades will enable the applicant to comply with the existing ordinance I mean it's zoned for you know mixed um in my opinion I think the request for Relief is premature I also don't know if this property is suited for a two-bedroom apartment and a two-bedroom apartment downstairs two-bedroom apartment upstairs is 600 square fet TW bedroom apartment seems small so that's just what I wanted to say anybody else on the board any comments no no no Steve if you look be will Tri okay all right so if there was a motion offered but there is no motion there is no motion and no second yet if someone would like to make a motion they might motion offered I don't think a motion was offer I can repeat it again I'm but happy to make the motion to approve the use variance as you outlined with the requirement that the sighting be the the insulated V that was approved by the HPC and showed to us tonight is there a second okay I second sorry that was L right Mr first hi Mr Orana hi Mr Leonard hi Mr rius hi Mr gini hi Mr Walter no shair one that show uh I'm not happy with the uh changes as they are so I'm going to say no then you have five affirmative on [Music] that I count five so yeah yeah so the motion carries the use variance has Grant has been granted with a preliminary final site plan we REM moralize in a written resolution good luck thank you very much appreciate your time okay Bo have anything else they'd like to talk about discuss no everybody's good then we need a motion to adjourn make second [Laughter] neor never been in this