##VIDEO ID:l--boOXQWW0## mayor Jacobs I here Comm Hy here Mr Walter here Mr Orana here Mr Leonard here Mr vilus here Mr djini here Mr first here Mr wild here chair get here adequate notice of this meeting of the Bedminster Township L use board was filed with the Township Clerk sent to the Burnville news and The Courier News and to all subscribers and posted at the Township Municipal Building one Miller Lane Bedminster New Jersey on January 12th 2024 please stand States indis right we'll open it up to the public if anybody has anything that they' like to talk about that's not on the agenda who we got online now we have one person online so if the person online would like to speak you can unmute yourself you can raise your hand if you're on your phone you can do star n and let us know that you have a comment no all right not seeing no one I'll close it to the public uh we have some correspondence in our mail here I believe a letter from H Frank Pino requesting postponement of 20 Route 206 till November surprised um and also the letter from Robin Ray adopting the ordinance 20 24-15 uh we have some resolutions that we need to approve we'll start with 202 206 resolution 24-2 second roll call um Mr Walter hi Miss Orana I don't have this res solution in front of me when would did we adopt it is it last I mean when did we when did we which property was it it was when did we have the hear right not so that one was I'm sorry June got it yes yes that's correct I think let's yeah I actually had only that only stepen was the only one who had was absent that day so I believe you are okay okay start [Laughter] over so for resolution from Route 20226 mayor Jacob's hickey hi Mr Walter hi Miss Orana hi Mr Leonard hi Mr rodus hi Mr gini hi um Mr first you were not here and Mr W I don't believe you had started at the June 6 so no and chairwoman got shot yes these applicant names are getting very confusing I didn't know there could be so many on 202 206 but someone should have a rule rule against creating llc's that use those roots and you're not the only Town well that's good to hear but we ought to come up with a little more creative names for these uh properties okay so this resolution has approved we have our second one 2475 lamington Road it's resolution 24-13 now on this one um Tim and Carol um did not vote TOS so they we I do not includ you um Vinnie and Brian were not here yet and Larry coling did not participate so I start with missana hi Mr Leonard mrus hi um I have a question um is it's what address was it 2475 lington I did not Paul say he wanted us to hold res resolution on that property until he had I believe he was he was satisfied yeah now he's satisfied okay I think that's an important point it is oh absolutely yeah it wouldn't have been on the agenda PA had not said do we need a motion and and in a second to to start the voting the resolution yes I think you need a motion in a second yeah yes we did we didn't have a okay and this is a d variant so it's not the mayor and Colin okay so we need a motion to approve the resolution to start motion to approve I'll second hi Mr Leonard hi Mr Ras hi Mr gini I Mr first I chairwoman you V I'm no so thank you okay now we have resolution for Lang and and a resolution 2404 this is everybody or colen and the mayor are eligible for this one uh this one we have no Tim and or Brian they were absent for that one SE and I watch the so I'll make the motion I I didn't much actually that was part of the was the beginning of the meeting oh okay yeah yeah I just see very memorable offense offence post coule fence post in a post in a generator okay start with a motion yes start with motion I'll make a motion second I did see it Mr Walter hi Mr Marana hi Mr Leonard hi Mr Rus hi Mr deini hi Mr first hi and chairwoman got hi Okay resolution okay uh about see where we're going uh we' already talked about the fact that 20 Route 206 uh it's postponed until November uh so we can start with our first uh hearing and we're going to start with Marino we're skipping around a little bit from agenda hello hello okay want to start or you have uh no I can go ahead and start uh it's my first one so oh Mr Marino please raise your right hand uh do you swear affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God yes I do and please state your name and address uh sure it's Michael Marino and I live at a drumers log l in Bedminster New Jersey thank you Michael uh please go ahead and describe what you're requesting uh sure um so I'd like to rebuild and expand my deck um within the bounds of what my HOA allows which is basically not extending um Beyond either rear boundary of the house so it needs to be flush with the um the house and uh I have a very irregularly shaped lot so by bringing the deck over um the Bernards Township municipal boundary kind of cuts at an angle through my backyard so if you're facing my backyard it's shallower on the only side I can expand it and gets deeper as you go on the other side and my house is kind of snuggled up against the corner of the lot so it's really not possible to extend the deck out to the the width that the HOA allows without the back post being I think 23 and a half ft um instead of 30 from the boundary uh so I'm seeking a variance to build in my desired footprint do you have any Witnesses or you um no just just me just on your own yep okay I'll open it to the board the board has questions Mr Marino M Marino I think the current deck is planned to be two the new deck is 30 by 16 what's ex do you have any IDE uh I'd have to bring up my little paperwork I think I submitted that with a bunch of stuffff so I I just didn't see the pap no no it's okay it's like the increase is2 square feet so any questions have M and and a drawing your where your exting which side of your exting yeah I'm just I'm tearing it down and doing a composite like words just try to describe yeah existing deck is and I've got my map up right now so I think that that'll help so the existing deck um if your place in the back of the house uh is pretty much like Square in the middle of it so um on one side it goes almost all the way to the edge of the house to allow the stairs to come down for a landing without breaching that side of the deck so the only way for me to materially expand it is to if you're facing a deck from any side the house expand it to the left to meet um the outside of the building and so from this map I don't have exact measurements of the old deck but it looks to be like an eight or n foot extension to meet the other side of the house um guess you don't know the answer this but maybe you do is the existing deck closer to the property line uh I didn't build it so I'm not sure looks scale I'd hope not but it might be that's okay I it is what is and then can you describe what's behind your house yeah a lot in Bur absolutely so the way that it works is um I back up to a wooded area that's in between um both properties um that at the closest point to the deck is probably 15 ft of of wood cover and then there's a very steep grade decline um to the neighboring property so between the grade Decline and the trees it probably wouldn't have much of a material impact on um the other adjoining property can you even see a house from the new house uh you can with varying degrees of clarity depending on the season so there is Evergreen and deciduous m mix back there so you can kind of see pieces of it through the trees but it's not like a clear shot 15 15 ft of trees is that on your property or is that on the uh so my property goes I think just a foot or so into the wood lines so the majority of the trees are on the uh adjoining properties you got right I here something yeah Madam chair this mostly this is a replacement job the relatively minor extension across the back of the house is reasonable accommodation here uh I was in the backyard of the property and because of the way these lots are irregularly shaped the house on either side of it it's not like having the house next door and their deck right next to you it's way over there on one side and you know it's probably 75 fet away you know there's no neighbor impacts from this really or if there were it's the same impact they have from having a deck there now these a couple more feed are not going to make any difference at all that side isn't moving right Frank he's expanding on the other side he's going the other direction right your property's entirely within bment uh it is y okay you didn't need to go to burners for anything well I had to uh send out a bunch of certified letters 200 so I got I got my green receipts here got that yeah right uh anyone else from the board so basically this is just increasing impervious service by 252 square feet yeah super minimal and I think that brings me to 20% um which is yeah pretty pretty low on the uh scale I think I can open up to the public anyone have anything they'd like to ask this witness there's no longer anyone online okay huh we were too boring that's a good thing okay we can then close it to the public and um anybody nobody satisfied okay is the deck a raised deck at first score level uh yes it is so it'll be on on post yeah it's going to be on icular peers I guess is the new thing it's basically big drill bit that roll down into the ground instead of having to pours so yeah it'll be it'll be RIS to improve the variants where the be located as supposed by theant the conditions would apply and the and I'll second mayor Jacobs hi K hickey hi Mr walkter hi Miss Orana hi Mr Leonard hi Mr hi Mr D hi Mr first hi chairwoman g hi congratul yes please okay y there go thanks all right all right we'll here our next application it's rich and Ja 8 minutes um one thing you did not do minutes oh we didn't do minutes we missed it we did I just noticed that we skipped over that we skipped right over it okay well we'll come back to it h you want to do it now want to do it now before we do the next is up to you I am also trying to help them log on saying that the code that we have from the zoom meeting is same 11 so all right so you want we do the minutes yes please okay we'll do the minutes um anyone have a motion for minutes from uh July 11th so second all in favor I anyone opposed who is here July 11 anyone um Brian would obain he was the only one I believe wasn't here and you guys watched the video you guys were here for the beginning l b so you can have I you have say yes sure regardless the minutes pass okay all right so let's continue with our applicant sir please raise your right hand you swear affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God and please state your name and address five Lon Street Charleston South Caroline thank you you please go ahead John good evening Madam chair members of the board board professionals Frederick zeli post poic on behalf of the applicants Richard and zackin Jacqueline treesa uh this is regarding 400 larger Crossroad it's block 40 lot 2.01 located in your r10 Zone uh we are here for one variants related to the proposed creation of a riding ring equestrian riding ring on the property uh this property is in excess of 26 Acres large tract uh but the ring will present coverage of 6.15% whereas at the time of application uh it was permitted to that 5% with the new ordinance I disagree with Mr farar that the new ordinance doesn't apply uh but either way uh we're in excess the new ordinance would allow 5.7 on this property so we're seeking 6.1 five uh Mr Matson our engineer will testify later and explain uh that we are not dealing with uh impervious coverage necessarily but your ordinance does not distinguish between impervious coverage and any other kind of coverage so we are here for uh the single variances I've indicated just two witnesses uh this evening Rich tza and Mr Madson uh unless there's I will indicate uh I've taken the photographs myself they were accurate at the time I took them but I'm going to have Mr tresa take you through them and tell you what exactly they depict we'll do that in a moment there's no questions for me I'll start with Mr Tres please go ahead Tre for starters you've indicated a out of state address where do you live when you're here in Bedminster 400 larger Crossroad in Bedminster okay you split our time split your time kind of how winter summer throughout the year how does it work throughout the year we're back and forth a little more in the summer than and with two you reside uh my wife and in Charleston and our two daughters are residents of brends okay and one of them is here and your wife is here so let's start with what uh structures are on the property presently there's the home there's a 15 stall barn with an apartment above it and there are two runin sheds and the uh you said the department is that actually in use at this point or and what's the what that used for just for the board's knowledge my daughter will live there once it's run okay we've submitted 10 photographs to the board I believe it's 10 let not let's just take it through if you would just quickly each uh tiet the orders presented they're all stapled so everybody has the same order and just tell us what it depicts and confirm that that's still the way it looks today sure first one is larger Crossroad with the just the apron kind of ourway going in see the same thing from the other direction enlarge your Crossroad and your driveway are both unpaved correct yes everything's gra um this is one of the top fields that depicts the house on the left and the uh excuse me the barn being renovated on the right driveway down to the front of the home that's let's slow down a little bit and maybe you want to group them together as one uh Fred or do you want to uh it's one packet but they were submitted with the application oh they were submitted with the application so okay so we're going through them let's think do you have numbers on them and that I don't although we could do it more yeah why you at least number that set so let's do this so we just testified one two three I'm gonna give you a pen and as you go you can actually number so they won't have to be exhibits but they but we will have to give that to the board secretary but they won't have to be exhibits because they were submitted with the application moving to the next one we call call number five excuse me Mr Tres can you hold up those pictures so that we know which picture you're speaking about sure start from please start again again yeah thank you your packages should be the exact same order because they were Staples we don't have them we have a cou okay let's they were emailed oh they were I have a copy but let let's change let's change the way we're doing it let's just okay it's a they they are part of your application so they're really part of your record already however in order to describe them if we could put them on the screen it'd be great but if we can't let's still mark them at at 1 2 3 4 through 10 put an A in front of the number they'll they'll be an exhibit now and then if you at least could hold them up when you describe it so that would be helpful so each time you describe one just hold it up right and then then we'll give it to the board and they can look it pass it down and look at it what I do have I'm not worried about it it's it's all pretty straightforward I think I think we'll be be able to get through this pretty quickly okay I'll start over from the beginning yes fine everyone see that call number one okay that's larger Cross Road going down and to the left is our beginning Aon of our D okay number two that's larger cross in the other direction again our driveway looking from the you know different direction onl across okay okay number three would be one of the top Fields um and in the background is the main residence and to the right is a copy or a picture of the number four is our driveway coming down the property toward the main house number five it's a picture of the barn being renovated it is still under renovation it's get Clos but it's still under renovation call this one number six this is fields to the left of the driveway left as you're coming in from the road coming in down towards the home this is the left side of theer is number seven okay this is coming down the driveway to the house the right side of the driveway and Fields on the right side of the and that's the area in question the lower field will be the area in question the one where the barn is in the middle of the picture so to speak correct so that's that's the fenced field that'll have the riding ring inside it thank you next picture number eight it's just another photo of that same field a little bit higher resolution closer up number nine is the um where that red running shed is that actual the top of that lower field and show the field that's above this is 10 this is the driveway a view of the driveway leaving the property away from the house away from the barn after number 11 is basically the same thing it's throwing a little bit of the bend of the driveway going towards the barn but it's basically the same thing what you see long ways to driveway going out towards lross well there's a little bit of stuff that is that lower field adjacent to the barn that we're looking to uh different view of the same same field and that's it that's it maybe you could start here give it to the end here everybody can see it Janine you have all 13 of those pictures one second I can tell you by what I have listed on the okay you want to continue you just pictures you can continue okay thank you all right obviously this is an equestrian application so we're assuming there either are horses or there's going to be horses what do we have any now there are none on the property now we will be bringing horses in okay that's because the barn is under construction perfect and I think you said the beginning but how many stalls are there 15 stalls 15 stalls and you have 15 horses hopefully hopefully probably not that many to begin with but yeah uhuh and Mr matson's going to give us the technical details but just in your own words what is it that you're proposing we're basically looking to take that bottom field and make it um a riding ring and what's the size of it uh we're looking for 200 by 130 and what has prompted you to undertake this project well my daughter's rid so their horses are going to come in then we have our trainer I'm just going to bring a couple horses in and um you want to convert the property to question news now just to be clear when you talked about the trainer coming in this is not going to be made into a training facility of a commercial sense and in other words bringing members of the public in and that kind of thing this is just people that your trainer is already involved that accurate it'll be my children um and a few of the clients that the trainer already has would be orders so the horses being trained the owners being trained are borders not non- boarders coming in correct okay from your understanding is this proposed size of the writing ring typical is it small large where does it fall on the Spectrum I think it's typical um originally we were looking for maybe something slightly bigger but we learned about the some of the constraints we cut it down a little bit so I would say it's it's difficult and can you describe to the board what type of activities are going to take place on the ring if it's approved we'll put a jumping course in um and just general riding and training and when uh would this take place what days of the week what hours of the day um generally it'll be six days a week probably um Monday's probably off potentially um no nighttime riding no lights so just during the daylight hours do you anticipate any kind of a negative impact by this riding ring upon your neighbors I don't think so um our one neighbor to this to the right of the property is just really far away you know acres and tens of Acres away to the right side of our property there's a large HED in between so I don't see any issues you kind of with that and from our perspective we're going to be living so we want negative um impact on ourselves as well as our neighbors have you had a chance to speak with any neighbors or have any of them said anything after being noticed have nothing further for Mr trees at this time G does the G have any questions yeah goe good would this be an income generator for you I mean your trainer is going to be there he's going to be bringing people in is he going to be I guess using pay for this you know renting them out from you yeah we'll have some yes the borders will be there will be some yeah I just have a couple questions just to clarify so you you don't have any plans to put lights no lights okay and this is not a covered and what kind of um surface are we talking about underneath the hor the high performance kind of footing G ggt okay can you explain that a little bit to is that like a sand or is it what is that it's generally like a a felt um material that's interpers with um other types of composite it's not a sand for say okay so it's more like an artificial surface it's not a natural surface I would tell you that's right yeah okay and um have maybe Mr Matson will talk about the drainage he will I would leave that to that's fine for me thanks anyone else on the board no I guess we can continue should I open it up thank you Mr open yes let's do that questions at least yeah we'll open it up to the public if there's any questions for Mr treesa online is just Mr Henry which is part of the other application so okay all right I don't see anyone thank you so then I think we can close it to the public thank you and we can go with our next wherever you want to go Mr Madson you're up and you need to be sorted maybe switch seats with Mr treza or or go to the podium is there m mic at the podium yeah we need to pick you up on a mic that's necessary yeah I think so can you hear him U like that if he picks if he holds he has to hold it to his face okay so it's a a mobile mic so Mr Matson do you please raise your right hand do you swear for him to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the trth helpy God and please St your name and address name is James madon M employ Associates professional engineer address 13 Place Hill and we'll just confirm for the record that the board recognized and accepts the qualifications of James mson as a professional engineer please go ahead mson have you designed the uh engineering plans that have been presented to the board in this application yes I have okay would you take us through them but first from an engineering perspective would you describe the existing property I'm sorry could you hold the mic closer otherwise no one yeah okay there's a tributary stream that runs through the there are some we on the property nothing and in fact to that point we have submitted a letter from John Peele of PK environmental uh indicating uh absence of wetlands in the area in question absence of buffer in the area question uh for both wetlands and open Waters is that correct yes it is okay right then would you please take us through the proposal but we are proposing as mentioned earlier riding rooms it would be roughly 200 ft by 13t there's also a collection SP water collection trench that runs around the property that off from theing to the rear can you take us through how this particular ring will drain well it will be CR the middle and slow Bane to the outside areas where the trench will be located and does the trench lead to a scaring pad or something along those lines the I think norest into SC dissipate energy of any water and that's a natural flow so to speak to get down to that stream yes and just to confirm no impact on open Waters no impact on Wetlands anticipated we are located located 235 closest and can you just go over with the board the distinction between imperious coverage and other coverage and how it is that we don't have a distinction under this ordinance Pur coverage is doesn't allow as this riding will allow to through riding surface and then as I said earlier to around and you heard Mr Tres testify to the nature of the material that's going to form the surface of the ring you have anything to add to that or was that a fair assessment of it I actually have different form the surface sh on the cly Mr knows more about surface if they were to use the material that he described would that change anything from an engineering or drainage perspective no because you still want to get the water Sur and there's a question that I'll just ask Mr Tres because it makes more sense uh waste manure from the horses how will that be treated it'll be taken offside a dumpster put in the dumpster and taken offside so it will not be allowed to uh be on the surface and then go down into the into the stream or anything like that correct um Mr madon did you have a chance to go through Mr ferrar's report of July 29th yes I do would you just take us do you have in front of you no you can use myone if you would just take us through highlight any ones that uh fall within your jurisdiction liting we are disturbing approximately 41 42,000 square feet and it does require to get approval from this Conservation District we receive approval of the acation as I said earlier Mr Z said John bu property other IND that there impacted damage to tributary string Max discharge from the curtain drain I'm sorry Cur drain to the SC hole be about 9797 cubic Fe second and that discharing into the SC hole which dis reduce out of [Music] which from an engineering perspective do you anticipate any kind of detrimental effect to neighbor or to the environment from this proposal no what actual property 230t from the nearest as Mr said Mr Bish can correct me if I'm wrong I don't think there's anything in his report that's really engineering it hasn't been addressed anyway and I have nothing further for Mr Madson at this time be no it's a C2 and I'll address that briefly St closing is the sorry I did I did have one question and that was maybe for Mr B and Mr Madson um the impervious coverage proposed is 6.125 15 existing is 3.88 and the and you electing what what you're trying to get it Fred was you're electing to take advantage as an applicant of the amended ordinance even though you applied prior to the amendment is that yeah we apply and we deemed complete prior to the amendment my understanding of the time of application rules it's designed to protect act it's not punish them so I I believe that qualify under the new number either way we need a variance but right but but to the extent that um the new ordinance allows the uh 5.7 you expressly amend the application to request the 5.7 right correct you agree that it's 5.7 under the new the five well the ordinance applicabilities right yeah don't think about that he wrote the ordinance know what it says I just want to know do you agree that it would be 5.7 under the calculations yes yes so the difference is between a 45% request versus 1.15 correct okay Point okay 045 not to be precise but that's right the difference is 045 right if you the difference between 5.7 and 6.15 come on I got I gotta write this I gotta write this and make it sure it works so right 045 just just between thew the new ordinance and the proposal I did me he's the one lawyer agrees with me here so so I got it thank you very much and I agree with Mr zel's position that the applicant in the time of decision sorry time of application statute uh is authorized by law and the case law to elect to take advantage of the benefits of the time of application but not the detriment no well I like to disagree with Paul once in a while and and to some extent I think he's technically correct however what because the way the statute is written there is authority of an applicant to select the benefits of a change in ordinance but not the detriments which is to me strange but our legislature is strange and that's what they did so this applicant benefits by the change so so we're looking at a 0 0.4 increase in blot coverage not imperious yes Frank just to make a quick observation the test that they're addressing with regard to the C2 variants means that there' be benefits outweighing any detriment from this and that those benefits relate to the purposes of the municipal land use law and your master plan your master plan explicitly encourages equestrian agriculture during discussions that we've had about equestrian agriculture there's even been a question of whether this type of a facility should be considered in that category that we call impervious coverage but really is not impervious and I will continue to defend the fact that we treat coverage as manipulation of the surface of the land regardless of what whether something drains through it or not that's the way you've dealt with it for years and years and I'm not saying you shouldn't but I am saying that in a case like this where the use is specifically something that the master plan wants to promote I think you can find a purpose for granting the requested relief than a seal so I wasn't even gonna mention that but I noticed that you moved away from Tom and I and over to the seat of power I don't I'm not sure what that means that's right I have a question are the to put in the riding ring are you changing the grading of that acre of area right does it need to be leveled it's going to be a cut fill operation by how do you have a sense of to Fe OPP and just explain the distinction between the 4,966 Ft of disturbance versus the 25,000 the rank you're you're doing a cut bill so you're moving St random yes um disturbance of 4,966 which is significantly larger than the size of the r yes so that extra area accounts for the cut you're doing say right G2 help Jim do we have a mowable slope on that cut side yes three to one or better thank you BAS and it's was a little hard to tell from the pictures is the riding ring going to be visible from the road doesn't look like it no anyone else on the board have anything are you satisfied okay I guess we'll open it up to the public for the engineer anybody have any questions or Com or testimony at this point comment online all right we can close it to public any so if the board is interested you could consider a motion to approve the uh C Varian variance for the proposed U increase in theer I'm sorry in the lot coverage as described this evening and subject to the standard conditions Paul and Frank's reports uh the testimony given tonight there'll be no lighting and um the approval will be effective this evening so that the applicant is authorized to proceed effective immediately provided all their approvals and compliance are obtained is there such a motion I'll make a motion second mayor Jacobs hi um Mr Walter hi Mr AR hi Mr Leonard hi Mr Rus hi Mr gini hi Mr hi chair hi good luck thank you all very much have a wonderful evening good luck project no the came environment they gave today the pictures we had they had sent to us okay gentlemen I think we time to leave yes it was nice to see you good [Laughter] night no favorites yeah El whe thank you for coming yes yes it was nice of you to join us you guys all loed on now yes okay we continue with our application of 1525 Bedminster good evening M chairman James Turtle the turtle WM hereon app25 LLC to continue our application to B right now a repair garage and Dunkin Donuts to a Dunkin Donuts and space which gas station 202 206 in the southbound Lan here in town uh last we were here on July 11 we a testimony and uh gone through some changes with the plan we're here tonight with James Henry are any here the last year qualified as an expert in civil engineering who with the changes we have in the plan we did bring with us tonight our full compliment team we do have our cic expert we do have our architect we do have our planner in case any other we go through most of last time I you know we have at least one I think two additional members here tonight I I thought I heard everybody's read the transcript so I think we have a full compliment of and the changes hopefully you'll find a satisfactory answer any questions the application so without further Ado I'd like to recall Mr James Henry to uh go in the plan and thank you gentlemen yes we'll confirm for the record that uh the members who had missed the last meeting have uh watched the videotape or listened to the recording and are have certified that they are eligible to hear the case and so Mr Henry understand you're still under oath yes I do thank you thank please go ahead good evening Hi how are you right um so I'm just going to pull up an exhibit we just we updated the site plan rendering that we presented uh at the last meeting to just uh go over a couple changes I'll go over those changes uh relatively quickly just kind of summarize you know Bas we received a lot of feedback from the board last meeting uh the board's opinion was they didn't want to vote at that time they preferred to see the updated plans uh so that you could see all the changes in front of you and there wasn't any reflection as far as what you were approving uh the changes were relatively minor but it's always good to be able to see everything you know on an exhibit so you can confirm that it's what you want so um so I'm just going to present I'm going to share my screen on Zoom so that everyone can see the uh exhibits and for the record I believe we'll call the the updated rendering A7 I think that's what we're up to okay so this is just a site plan uh rendering repared by Dynamic engineering dated uh August 8 2024 which is today's date uh and that'll be A10 A7 yeah A7 yeah so what sheet of the plans is that of your re uh it's a site it's a site plan sheet which is sheet four okay with a landscape plan overlaid and cized okay so it's a composite yes so it's a different exhibit okay thank you 87 uh just want to summarize the changes we made so the board is all uh aware um just I'll go over the whole site plan said but in particular the site plan is mostly will change um we modified the sidewalk going around the building I believe one of the board's comments was just replace all the sidewalk all around the entire building we agreed to do that so we're showing brand new sidewalk around the outside of the building uh there was some discussion about selfs serve uh fueling we spoke to our client about that that has been uh remediated that's no longer occurring um there was some additional striping requested as far as the write out only driveway uh you can see we added a right turn only striping as well as a Stop Bar and then extended the stop bar across the whole driveway uh which is the southernly driveway on Route 206 uh we added some directional traffic directional signage at that driveway which directs um you know for Route 206 North to use the lamington road driveway so we added a sign at that driveway to tell motorists not to make a left-hand turn there to go to the side street uh to to use the light to make a left Mr Henry can you show us exactly where that sign is sure do you have any any pictures of what that sign looks like or what it says we do it's in the site plan set I don't have it here but I if you have the site plan set in front of you I think we do that's on sheet eight of the site plan set dated uh February 29th 2024 last Revis July 22nd 2024 all the left hand side sheet eight on the left hand side I can we're gonna try to project it on you can see and the arrow that you show there that's on the caving yes yeah and a broad stop stop line a stop line as well and I believe just give one second this file is fairly large so just a little slower so I apologize and the sign that you have proposed to go to 206 that's here uh where that arrow is where where the arrow and the Stop Bar is yes okay sorry my uh forun I froze myobe I don't know if we have to share that just it's just a big really big file that one so I'm just gonna not share that one if that's okay the uh the sign itself but I'm bring back up the aerial side pretty so you only have one posted sign in that that c sign one location one location correct and then we have to do not enter signs which is were also requested uh at that driveway so we also have that at that driveway as well um there was a request for bike a bike rack so where's that planned no that's so you can see there's a stop sign I do not enter sign and then also Route 206 North lington Road sign all all three signs on a separate posts thep can can you identify just on with using the the cursor Arrow if you can uh for the board to see exactly what sign they're to the right of to the right side of the driveway as you're exiting out on the 206 is that PO to if you're exiting out on 206 on the right hand side I know you can see my C it's not hard to [Music] see just show us where those different signs are yes so uh right now Jim the first sign here would be the proposed stop sign is that correct Mr Henri the the first sign I'm sorry I'm zooming first sign is the lington road sign okay then the second sign and the lington road the lington road sign is the driveway cut on 206 to the South right yes might be easier to see on on on the black line document yeah it's yeah unfortunate but you can still see it so yeah the the the one the looking at the exhibit A7 the top sign is the lington road sign saying use rout 206 north um use the lington road driveway the second sign is just a stop sign and the third sign is that do not enters now to use said 206 I appreciate putting the sign that's um someone that's not from the area is going to be pulling in there they're use the be like looking around where's that they just put an arrow like a right arrow so they know it's that way we can add an AR on it a little bit yeah that's fine they might be like yeah where's lington Road it's like right yeah yeah this is two of six so let's go out sign is on the the uh Road cut on 206 to the north to the north there uh is not a do not answer sign on that one there's not or there is so there is not because I believe that's a two agent that the full movement so where where's the D not to the left of the oneway driveway where's the oneway driveway so so what this would be the southern driveway on 206 you would enter in the site here this would be a two-way drive here on the Northern side on the southern side you pull out and you can only go right and uh which would be South on two 206 what the do not ENT signs facing 206 facing 206 right yeah yes it's just to emphasize it's a one-way driveway um and then the Stop Bar also does the same and if you wanted to we probably could paintal matter that probably doesn't work right because somebody who doesn't know the area is just going to come down they're going to miss the cut and then they're just gonna pull in whatever so you're putting the do not enter sign on the left-and side of that as you're facing in yes okay you might want to think about putting it on the right the only reason we're not doing on the right I mean we could do it in a baller on a ball of some sort we just don't want to put in the do right away just because of do jurisdiction issues it is we can put on a baller in that stried area right there though if if you want to of them it it's actually physically hard to make that turn yeah um because it's double yellow lines and double yellow stripes and this just reinforces the the concept of you know don't turn here right right sometimes there may be traffic there too queing it the light y um so just moving on there's there was a request at the phase to EV Chargers we spoke to our client uh they're agreeable to adding two and then in the future adding an additional uh additional four on the site plant sheet um which is behind the building so the green ones are the ones going to be installed initially and then Al and then after that there's going to be potentially another uh another seven uh behind the building near where it say 20 what what sheet are you on I'm on I'm on the exhibit which is uh the site PL sheet indicates the is very similar plan in front of you so you said two and then four and then seven yeah so so just to just to explain the if you look at the the screen there's two striped spaces to the left of the building yeah that are in green yeah those are the two EV spaces one of them will be Ada accessible which is required by code that's why there's a striped area next to one of them it it's not signed as an ADA it just needs to be accessible so we have one stried area for the Ada and then we have another one that is just for someone who's not Ada so we have two two we installing when we you know as as part of phase one it's going to be more of a trial to see if it's successful and then if that's successful we want the ability to be able to add an additional seven just because if we're going to if it is successful we want to be able to add the proper in infrastructure and everything else um you know that that's required for that and where are you placing them in the in the back yeah so the the phase two locations are just are these seven which are uh basically two in it's C7 right here right in this area behind the building yep well they're away from the building normal direct they're normal size you only need one Ada uh EV space so and can anybody use that space anyone can use the space it just needs to be accessible okay so the plan is only to put in the conduits at this time no we're g install the charger which I think because I think the board reponded the actual charger installed as part of phase one the phase two w install the conduits seven the seven in the back install the conduit now or and then um I'll have to talk to my client about that to to get clarification I'm not sure I mean we're not current we're not planning on ripping up that pavement back there so it might not make sense to do it right now maybe we do it uh when we when we do want to expand that a little further because we're not redoing all that's paved we're not messing with that parking lot back there uh there was some question as far as what was going to happen with the overall parking area we our client did take a look at the parking area in general it's in Fairly good shape uh where it does need to be Mill and overlay or or replaced with full dep payment he's going he's going to do that but most of the parking lot is in Fairly good shape so he's just planning on sealing the majority of the parking lot um not to the plan we had a note on the plan yeah uh there was also a comment I believe in the board engineer regarding the eco-friendly grate which are just the uh Inlet grates that go over the drainage inlets to make sure that they're eco-friendly they say you know drains to a stream we're going to change out the grates that are on the site to say that so they're compliant uh with that uh there was a comment just to add the hours operation onto the plans which we did uh those hours are 5:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. uh I believe there was a comment from the board regarding the air pump and that it's old and was not properly functioning so we spoke to our client they're going to replace that and put in a new one um there was a few comments just regarding the illumination so we did provide the illumination a lighting plan uh to the board I don't believe there's any comments and we indicated on the site plan sheet the security lights that are going to remain on and we only selected a few of them that are going to remain on when the when the uh business is closed where are they going to be on the building uh there are a couple on the building and then there's also I think one free standing you look on sheet seven which is the security lighing plan there's one on the back of the building which is the west side of the building um just by the back door right right we're looking here there's another over by to where the existing bathroom is over by where it says five there's another building light there today which we're going to make a security light and then we're going to make a light that's in the islands and existing light in the island over by the air pump so those are going to be the three lights that we're going to remain on 247 just for security purposes I'm sorry I looked down are are there Lights by the electric uh Chargers uh there we didn't make that part of the security uh illumination no no no are they available after hours we could we could make that a security light I'm assuming they would remain on there be a light on that side of building we could make we could add that as well yeah I would think though okay did you show where the bike bike brecks are I did not get to that yet uh there is we added I believe there's a lot of comments just regarding Road bikers that are on lington road uh so we did add a six bike rack we eliminated one of the loading spaces uh behind the building on the left hand side uh that area is going to be partially striped and it's also going to be just reserved for an EV equipment area if it's required uh with with Ballers around it so we're removing one of the oversiz spaces that could be used for landscape trucks or you know anything like that how many handicap spots you required to have uh by code we're required to have two where are they uh they're to the right of the building and in the blue well that's not near the entrance right they're the closest to the entrance there's there's two there's two entrances there's one to the left and one to the right for the is that where the office is the office is yeah to the to the right hand side mean if somebody comes to the Dunkin Donuts they have to push a wheelchair they're in a pretty disadvantaged position yeah I mean code code allows you to put it there they're supposed to be the closest to when you have two different uses it can be on either side of the building it's not reasonable to think it can be in front so it has to be on the side right and the EV spot is accessible even accessible but not designated path of accessibility to the entrance yes correct which it looks like it does um just to be clear what you're saying is that anybody that needs a handicap space use the handicap regardless the charg yes so that's on the other side of the building correct so that gives you three three so so a person with a gas car that needs a handicap Mark parking it basically there's there's going to be a sign on the EV charging that says for Ev Vehicles only okay that's what we're getting it right that that guess that's what we trying to clear right okay um now yes P I see sign says don't on the green one yes no unless you have an EV big unless you have an e here the only it's GNA it's GNA have nobody's going to police this so don't worry about it because you probably can't get a ticket for that carry around the fake charging board with you just which is approximately the same distance anywhere yeah yeah the doors uh then there was one another comment regarding just the uh LED illumination I had to do a lot of research on this to actually just got an answer about two hours ago so so I have a letter from Shell uh that goes over the illumination of their LEDs and just it's a little technical I had to look up some of the terms so basically there's 2,000 mcds in each LED okay okay so it's gonna get technical that's why I warned you um so there's 2,000 they only use a thousand during the day so it's brighter during the day from an illumination standpoint at nighttime it drops down to 15% of the Thousand so it's really almost like 7% of what's it's capable of doing so it drops down very low um and we're agreeable to adding the dimmer to require it to be you know it's going to be basically 150 mcds which is 15% of the Thousand so it's uh it's going to be 15% of the fully illuminate the daytime illumination at night which is going to be the lower end of the scale and we're g agree to add a dimmer uh which will make sure that we are a darker the the the non-branded gas stations a lot of them just jack up the illumination and leave it on leave the daytime the daylight the daytime illumination on 247 so I'm sure you have seen you know when you're driving around some gas stations that you're like whoa that's bright so we're agreeable to add make it so it's 15% of the illumination of daytime and we'll make sure that we have a dimmer and we'll make sure your inspectors confirm that there's a dimmer when we install the LEDs to make sure it's not overly bright we also provided uh some examples of the other Shell gas stations uh for the board to go look at I'm not sure if you did but um as I'm sure if you went there at night it's not overly bright it's it's definitely it's visible but it's not bright is that operate automatically on a photo cell or is that something that just has to does it at a hard time uh you can you can do it you can do it photo we use photo cell you have a dark day like stormy day and it's dark I mean it might reduce a little bit with less ambient light yeah so we prefer to use photo cell so it automatically does it but that's I have a letter from Shell uh the shell manufacturer that that goes over that if if the board would like to see that if you could submit that as um an exhibit exhibit sure oh just do we know what an MCD correlates to in some like I know you're going to ask that question I like the% but sure so so MCD is a mill candle Canda so a Candela is a bright the brightness of a common candle and then 1000th of that is a mill candle so MCD is a mill candle okay okay with you so far so we're basically going to be 15% of uh how does that correlate to like a foot candle so great question I I look that up too I'm happy I did my research here um so a foot candle is one Lumen per square foot so it's actually illumination per square foot whereas a mil candle doesn't have uh the square foot element uh attached because it's not based on square footage so um there is a conversion that you can do but it's it's basically one you we're going to be about 150 mandles so it's almost G to be 15% of a can be put here and if you didn't use that you would use what tra figure then we would use uh illumination from the rear which is just going to be an illuminated sign the way what we're asking the board to approve is we're going to remove all the internal illumination from the sign so right now it's internally illuminated we're going to remove the illumin we're going to put a downward light on the sign so it's externally illuminated which I think looks looks better than internally illuminated but in order to do that we have to add the LEDs in and it it creates a very clean look and I think we had presented a an image and I can present it now of the exhibit that we submitted last time just showing what that would look like um you know it we're basically removing the internal illumination to add the LED if you could that yeah my question is if if we if we didn't Grant you a variance for the lighting you're asking for right what would we get we would maintain the existing illumination which is internal illumination and then we'd have to physically you know it's it's a task task our client struggles with his with his employees they have to go out they have to physically put the numbers up they get blown off they're you know they when they change they they get lost it's it's it's it's labor intensive to physically go out there and switch and and put the actual numbers up and then also the illumination is from inside the actual side do we know maybe this is a question for our experts but what the inter like how many candles we're talking about the internal the existing internal illumination is internal illumination sorry I like internal literation right like the dimmers and the LEDs I think look a little better but I want to make sure we're comparing Apples to Apples when we talk about the right the wage you think supped to here do we know G show you both both the exib that we showed last time just so I can't find can see the difference I can't I don't know what is there's the charging station that that going that my signs here I don't know so this exhibit shows a fully internally illuminated sign and you can see the entire sign is internally illuminated I just got with the notas I'm it's not versus oh there's one hand this one which is the it's got a LED bar Illuminating down the sign itself is not illuminated you kind of it looks more you can see a darker illumination on the sign but then you have the LED price points either have to yes compared what's there now what's the height of the numbers vers what's going uh I believe the numbers today I think are roughly about a foot high and they're going to they're going to be about foot high under the proposed conditions the actual numers though are I think are nine inches the actual LED price points but the panel is about okay so is it similar to what's there it's similar to what's there today yeah and then sizewise of the sign I'm just having my eyes aren't working sure the new sign I see the the height is about the same uh what [Music] the yeah P the sign mention are not changing same the same they're the same size so yeah so right now under the existing conditions there's four price points um the shell it's in Fe power and then the dun Donuts you can see it on sheet n um and then the new sign is the same exact square footage approximately 42 square feet same height uh the only difference is we're changing out the actual panels themselves and then modifying the illumination so this and then the illuminate the lights that will be luminating down yes are within standard and will that here's where the I mean I think we have a certain bright they can be yeah I mean they're they're just they're just an LED bar that you see in front of any other any yeah they're not terribly bright it's just an LED bar that's you know fairly s fairly standard in the industry just LED bar that goes right right across okay so like the idea the numbers themselves not being you know two but'll kind of if that led like super right it's not yeah and I think we could we could work we agree to to work with your engineer on that because really the big thing for us is just so you can see the actual signage we don't need it overly right I mean I think I think the L the LED price points just really makes my client's life a lot easier um you know it's unsafe to have employees go out there and change the numbers I don't think it's I really don't think it's unsafe to go change some numbers on a there definitely yes yeah um also against our off after hours you know sign yes the lights will go off an hour after closing um I think the typically L say off yeah he'll shut them off at at closing usually it's like one hour after closing yeah so the whole thing will be shut down shut down yeah so Mr Henry um one of the things that brought this up was that we further north on 206 um in PAC there is one of these exact type of signs and it is so bright that you can I mean it's almost like a mile away as you're coming down to a six from the top of the hill you can see this thing so we want to make sure that we avoid that Del Delta yeah so that's like an that's an unbranded gas station so they're probably doing exactly I spoke they probably jacked it all up but we're we're agreeing to make sure that we comply and we'll have your inspector confirm that it's it's 15% and then we're we're doing the right thing and you're also located more in in in the village business neighborhood so we we just want to make sure and it does say on your paper there you can go even below 15% if necessary I think it say 10 15% yeah 10 to so I actually spoke to the contractor that installs these for for our client uh he basically said we'll lower it to the lowest dark level that's possible on the dimmer um it's still it still should be illuminated enough so you can see it um you know we'll lower it to the lowest setting okay if I can change the subject on the traffic internal circulation yes if somebody comes in on lamington road from lington Road is is it intended that they can go either side of the building yes there's circulation around the whole building two way yes I could show you on the site plan on a it's on c a yeah right so on A7 which is the the site plan rendering yes I'm sorry it's sheet 11 sheet 11 okay sir are you looking at the um the truck circulation on Che 11 says vehicle circulation yeah yeah it's for just a box truck for the um so that's just showing that a box truck could go into the uh the oversized space which I think was a comment that we received right but so in other words if somebody comes in from lamington they can go um to the east side of the building or the west side of the building yes someone and when someone's coming in from the north they can go either side of the building as well yes it would it's fine I mean I I think it's a little unpick you and on my part but um somewhat impractical but um then there was a a few comments regarding the Landscaping plan regarding the species we did submit updated species and we also agree uh to address your your board the board Engineers comments on uh if there's any foreign species we agree to to remove them uh and then we also added the circulation uh plans that were requested on the back few sheets there's three circulation plans on the last three sheets of the of the set and we provided those to your engineer in advance of this hearing and I didn't see there was any comments on that based on what we provided uh then the last thing I think you had requested that our client uh come to the meeting and he is here today so he is uh in uh here in case you have any questions or comments from thank you Mr Henry thank you anything more for for Mr Henry yes just two quick questions um in regards to John's point about the traffic I wasn't here at the at the original one so just just so I understand the traffic flow pattern so coming off of lamington we can come to the east side of the building and approach and approach the gas pumps how is someone coming off of lamington supposed to get to the gas pumps themselves without opposing the traffic that's coming in off of 206 there uh so the gas pumps you you can really go either Direction I mean a lot of times it depends on what side what side you're um so so if they come in let's say they come in lamon now they're facing 206 at the pumps where are they supposed to go at that point they can circulate around we we can add arrows I don't have any problem adding arrows where they could come around the the right hand side of canopy and then circulate back around if you want to try and emphasize the one-way circulation I yeah a couple points with that agree just if where if the point was also to keep them from going on a two s directly from the pumps if they're already facing that direction then it's really set up it's really set that's a very good comment because I think you know if there are cars coming from the I guess the the west side yeah um you know a lot of times I think there's conflict because most of the cars come in from 206 and kind of make that right in and they're facing towards the building um so we could add some striping to kind of clarify that you know just make sure the cars are facing uh towards the building to try and make sure they're stacked up properly com I I've used that gas station a thousand times and those um those pumps to the far south are like dead end pumps if you come in from that lamington roadside you have you pull into that pump and then you can't get out you have to back out it's it doesn't have an existing right flow that's good at at all it yeah I and I used the thousand times he has use but I would just say that when you come in from lington Road and I'm not even sure that I'm right what I'm saying but I think that you'd be better off everybody be better off if you could not go to the uh west side of the east side of the building that you'd have to go around to the back but I don't know so saying make that one driveway one way and make it go around back because that way you flow into the to the pumps and the other thing is that people come and then they Park but people are going to park right at the front door that ducking Donuts because they do that now and there's no way you're going to stop that you can have as many signs as you want people are going to stop get out of the car and run in and get whatever they want and then it gets to be not narrow but when you come around you know it's it's just not the safest thing yeah we can add no parking striping in front I think the one way CC I don't think that's a great idea just because there are going to be people who see the main entrance off off 206 and want to come through and then Park in those seven spaces to the right of the building no I'm not saying one way the 206 people can go either way it's the people from lamington I don't think they're going to change direction that wouldn't be able to go to the east side of the building meaning of the people if I understand you're right the people from lamington coming in if they come to the east side of the building they're directly as people are leaving the pumps now if they're potentially going oh I've got to go lamington or get P 26 North now we're just we're constantly having people cross and they're just fighting to get to the spaces but they're immediately crossing the people leaving the pumps and it's just continually happing in front of even pedest possible pedestrians such parking area you as much striping there as you want people are going to park yes so I traffic engine so to summarize it um in the morning when people are running in and out of the Dunkin Donuts and parking in the front plus the cars going in both directions and the pumps it's pandemonium in front of that building right just so that you we've been there and we we see it and it's dangerous and that's one of the reasons I requested the sidewalks last last week because I want to keep people off the pavement and put them at least direct them onto a sidewalk so anything that you can come up with that would improve that flow talking about this mov that area suppos we're going to last suppose this was a oneway where you just couldn't come that's what Steve's trying that's what I said but that's not what uh said I can discuss with our client about that and then I'll I'll Circle back so anybody coming in lington would come the only thing the only thing is that a lot of people that are not from this area are going to think are going to want to enter in that main main door and it's going to create a problem well no it's still problem because with Ling PE people who were not well not everybody but 90 % of the people who come in from lington are local yeah yeah I gu let me talk it over with our Cent anyone com6 North go they're not people from come in on 206 yeah let me see I've seen I don't know how to fix it other than sign what do you think Tim you're never there I don't a lot I don't see I don't know if there's a problem there now you you can put arrows on the P but you know people are still G to do what they're gonna do at least it's a wider drive a and the so the the driveway to the east of the building is a wider Drive aisle with parking only on one side and so yeah we just but you can't stop people from being crazy well people say say do not enter right when you're coming from lington if it's just the right side says do not enter go behind the building you're talking then Park in a parking spot walk it's just a crazy situation in there in the morning it is no question what it is there car shell customer you guys one lucky has the gas tank so I was just talking to our traffic engineer and our client the concern is because you're might see you see a little bit the green so the concern is right now this mean this has been operating like this forever um I we he understands that there's been issues but once this is renovated the problem is that all the activity is only in this store and now the main entry for the Duncan is shifted to the left so that the the probability of pars the activity almost was for to be on this side and by the doors being shifted to the left hand side a lot more activity is going to be on the left hand side of the site which is going to separate the two uses which is going to be better for traffic circulation so the other the other thing is he's done this and he he sees a lot of people do because obviously operates gas station like this maneuver is not very easy and then it also conflicts with people making a I'm sorry which maneuver the maneuver where you come down from the back and if you were going to come on the right hand side of canopy and then try make a you coming this way MH he said the the problem is that if cars do this it creates a conflict with people making rights in yeah you can't do that yeah you enter the canopy from the other side right but the canopy's caned so now you're making people make so if you're coming in this way can can't enter in because of the angle of the the the pumps right so that's the only reason he doesn't want to do it is because he think you know you think it's going to create unsafe condition with cars doing this and then people make a right hand turning and it's operated safe safely for you know for a number of years by moving the Dunkin' donuts over we think that that's going to be a significant Improvement to move a lot of the activity to the left hand side of the building versus uh well would it would move people away from the pumps the walk the pedestrians yeah the sidewalk help and then he was agreeable to adding you know if if we want to add paint the curb yellow or add signage he's agreeable to adding whatever it's required people people won't listen but you have to at least as a board we have to make sure we do our part protect pedestrians yes agreed make it safe as possible anything more for Mr Henry I disagree in around side U where is the bicycle rack again sure the bicycle rack is on the top on the on A7 it's in the Striped area by the trash enclosure oh okay so we provided you know kind of an overs since we're entering in lington road we thought it' be a good idea to provide it near lington Road and then um so it's in that white striped area right here and there's some additional space in case there's a needed for additional bikes or um electric bikes or anything that it's also out of the way so yeah it's in the not the area probably least used on the site which think is good can you uh zoom out a little bit so we can see the corner which corner you the L yeah like that so is the Shrubbery is is is that Shrubbery like a whole line of of shrubs yeah it's it's it's kind of staggered trying to create as much buffer as possible right now there's not very much Landscaping in that area and the real idea of it is just trying to block headlights from going out 206 you know to improve safety of of the uh the area I I I'm just wondering about people walking to the Dunkin Donuts from across the street now because you have AT&T and now you're going to have the M pet fresh building and you're going to have another new building the wer property so you're going to have potentially a lot of foot traffic back and forth crossing the road here and I'm just wondering if there's any anything that can be done to help the pedestrians know where to go yeah I mean I don't there's no sidewalks I don't think in the area so I don't think I don't I person I don't think this is we should be promote like in this particular intersection like promoting the the walkability talk to Frank about that or Larry we want Walkers we want we want remote walkability okay we want that do you know if there's a crosswalk there yes there is a crosswalk there is crossw the goes to Nowhere used to go to your facility that's the other side I think there's only CL one side it's not two CL that's what I'm asking yeah there's only CR on the south side it's on Library thebr that's the one I'm aware but there isn't one here theary here and then on that there no it's not like it can cross there's only one crosswalk part of the intersection on the library side and right you can cross over to where the LI Library side is and then cross over but there's no sidewalk or anything obviously the property on that no matter what you do if you come from a new property should have to do two crosswalk a cross off crosswalk to Nowhere you'd always have to do two crosswalks exactly because it's caddy they caddy corner so yeah that might through the library do might have to get involved with that at some point yeah that's their property three layers here do no not not it's not out our control there's nothing you guys can do nothing we can do about it exactly y you think that we said we wanted a sidewalk from where the landing of the crosswalk is over to to the north but do2 would say sorry uh I think we have to go to dog for approval of that um I'm I'm not sure what their response would be is Frank is that something that we as Township can request do to look at or the somerson county you would want you would want an aspect of this application to be the installation of that and that would put that in the position where they had get you could support it but it's there you know beyond that but it's not on their property at all no have to come okay okay uh are you finished Mr we have nothing further for Mr Henry I don't know if the public might have some questions in addition board questions and the board have anything more Mr penry no satisfied okay then we can open it up guess there's nobody online no just Mr Henry's computer and that's it okay so we close it to the public and you have another witness or no we we finished we're finished we do have our other Witnesses here if the cas is anything unanswered that the board might still have any questions but otherwise we do have okay would you like to summarize yes I have I have a thought question yes I'd like us to meet the owner of the property sure can you can introduce us absolutely thank you if I may call Mr wat chav c h u d h a r y who is the principal of 1525 Bedminster LLC hi hi please raise your right hand sir you swear from to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do and please take your name and address Wasim w a eem c h a u b h a r y Chow 11 Dean Street Madison New Jersey 07940 thank you Mr CH chadri and Mr chadri you are principal of 1525 bmin LLC yes I am and call when you purchased this proper or 5025 bmin I believe uh in around 2011 but I've been operating the site way before that you beat me to my next question so so about how long have you been familiar with this site I was I'm say probably 97 1997 1997 yeah and uh this is a plan with the type of use that we're we're proposing here tonight is this a use you're familiar with yes and what do you what is the reason why you're proposing this you what do you think it does with respect to the gas business and what's there today well you know we have a small tiny dunk in there they need to upgrade and you know it's not enough space and now we have a vacant eight B garage and it's not being used so I you know it's per perfect opportunity to uh you know uh expand the Duncan and take over the i b garage and then you know use the other area just for my office you know office purpose for paperwork and that kind of stuff and do you have other gas stations that your principal the ownership of that have similar type of dung uses with gas stations I own and operate uh north of 65 locations uh that I own and then probably another 65 75 that I Supply and I have many with the Dunkin Donut or convenience stores but especially this use yes Dunkin Donut yes and based upon your operation of these sites you feel this will will work in the way it's been proposed absolutely yes to the board I just want to give you a little bit of background of Mr Chow and his extensive knowledge in this area but board would have any questions you will i' certainly welcome any questions thank you any questions I have yeah go ahead Mr chry I I want to thank you for being amenable to all of the back and forth and you know making some of the changes that we' asked for sure um we seek Bedminster at is not really really a question we see Bedminster as our own community and we need to make sure that our people are safe that everything works well and um I just want to thank you for you know we put together a whole a long list of changes and Mr Henry made those changes and I think we appreciate I appreciate that at least we all do well thank you uh and I do you know I like I said I live in Madison and I have many stations throughout the uh State and I work with you know with the communities and you know I I really you know part of every Community you know where every town that were Opera the stations and I'm glad that you know we were able to accommodate almost everything that uh you know respected board members had asked and I will make sure my promise is that you know after the renovation we will make sure I know the lands landscaping and I know my Jim say already but if we need to for Paving if I see that place need the whole you know property then we will do that you know I want to make sure the place is that neat clean beautiful and you know well invited to you know all the customers and the residents of the bed District thank you you're welcome we thank you again and um you know this is an unusual site it's difficult site especially with the internal uh parking and driveways and stuff so it's very difficult um but we appreciate your business in in town and uh we're trying to accommodate you as much as we can and byce ver thank you thank you and now that you have met this and You' had us before this board you certainly have my phone number and all the applications last meeting we were here submission were assigns that would been placed in the do right away we've corrected that issue I it's all gone now I think on the next morning but now that you know Mr chav you've seen us here if there are issues that do operate you know that do happen let investor please come to us abs and he's very responsive to the needs of the community and uh work you correting whatever problem see develop I hope so what's good for him is good for USS absolutely y all right no further questions I don't the public has any questions for Mr Chow we will certainly open it up we will certainly open it up to the public I don't see anybody thank nobody's online but so we'll close it public thank you so you ask me for a summation yeah today we have a station that is you a nice building but it's going to get upward you have a very prominent location you have a use now empty empty repair garage and you have a small dunk cond Don small dunk Condon hav very well and through the course of this not only this hearing but the prior hearing we had there's also been a need for a community center community B sit down and have a cou and we believe this application fits a lot of the needs of building's going to be upgraded some of it's going to look a little bit more lively it's going to look a little bit more lwn the image that this town like project the station itself will get up facelift with Landscaping which we think overall will be wild we do have an extra space there shell office there as well that'll be now cleaner and a nicer area we believe we've come forward with the collaboration with your expert with the here with an application we think will be appropriate use for a very prominent location here in Bedminster and hopefully when you be proud to have you drive by and every day and hopefully get a cup of coffee and buy some gas but it's one that we do feel will fit in with your need and certainly much better than the site that's there to do so with all of that and the time that this board has spent the experts time to and helping coordinate all this we thank everybody uh we ask that this SP favorably on this application do thank you could you just summarize the variances your request so yes go back here list here in lecture after we change some of this upd I'm referring I'm referring to uh the uh your plan is reportz report dat July 10th 2024 Mr out on page starting at page two fairly substantial number but if you like to read that would be we're looking right now for 6.1 on new VAR um where we're going to be expanding the existing Dunkin Donuts we be eliminating the repair shop will be expanding the D gity um we're going to be asking for relief from 13- 46.4 with minimum lot area because we have only 1.29 Acres with a minimum in this zone is 15 Acres um we're going to be asking for releasing 134 6.4 under lot WID which is 400 ft required the 43.5 again this is a regularly a small wat for the zon The Zone was not office research and we're gas station small ril gas which is another reason why fit in well and is warring of varant mement uh on lot dep the same thing 13464 uh on lot minimum lock dep is 400 ft 178 to4 the minimum front yard set back is 100 ft we're going to be at 49.3 FT uh the minimum side yard set back is 100 ft will be at 61.9 FT by the way if you leave the notice on extremely long ask these are all follow yes July beginning on page two yes and most what we're talking about now as existing conditions right all and that's a good point to be made is that we're really only the building itself is saying saying we're adding some curving now around the building which is giv to be a change we're add Landscaping we're going to change some of the lighting on on the sun want go in detail but beyond that some of the striping in the parking lot stations expansion ofform use the expansion expansion nonform use but physically on the property we're not really changing that much right the big thing is is that right now the 300 foot dun I think 300 squ foot Dunkin Donuts is now going to be cut I think 1,400 ft with Dunkin Donuts you have a much bigger Dunkin Donuts instead of going in getting your car leaving you're going to have a sitting area and you're going to have a place to be able to cond as well as you so uh in terms of what's existing and what's proposed it's pretty much the same site except is going to be uh spied up with new sighting it's you know have new signage on it but beyond that it's going to be the same site with just much bigger conds so so could you just talk about the variance you're requesting for the lighting on the sign so requests the lighting for the sign we can talk about we're asking for digital lighting for the numbers the price points so that what would that would enable the driver to see better we no no I know all that but so you're you're asking a variance from what part of our quote and that's why I was going through the list I go back to the list right so let's just continue the list that's fine I'm happy to do that it's fine um we have a minimum distance between the RTO buildings uh which is 50 ft the principal building here would be the copy and the building itself that we have G have the repair garage and um gas station again this is another existing one which is currently the ordinance requires 50 foot we have 23 ft the minimum accessory building distance to the sideline is 75 ft and we're at 45.4 which we had another existing I point about exis I was not making that clear uh under 13- 46.4 the distance between accessory buildings uh again we just repeated that which is 50 and 23 ft 50 required 23 provided the existing lot coverage uh permitted is 35% and the existing and it's not going to change is 74.5 a% uh parking setback no parking is going to be permitted under your ordinance is permitted in the front yard or 50 ft from any least lot line right now we have six foot parking back to Salk which is existing and it's going to stay the same um in terms of parking and driveway setbacks no parking and driveways uh no parking or driveways permitted within 15 ft of any lot line and in this case we are 6 feet from a parking setback which beginning SE um no parking committed with the required building setbacks and we have parking within the front and side condition is going to continue uh loading spaces minimum loading spaces should be 15 ft by 40 ft where at 9 ft by 30.6 3.6 that's an existing condition which will continue after the loation uh minimum driveway withd 24 ft we're going to be 23 driveway existing condition going to continue uh permitted uh crashing closures are permitted in the rear yard only and we have a trash enclosure in the side yard which is just existing and propos I we doing some more screening of of trash so we're actually going to make it a better area even though we're continuing in existing varant condition we're going to be improving it with with the enclosure put in uh Landscaping bu are required between all Street BK State areas and off lines we don't have a land buffer in certain areas existing condition continue um Landscaping buffer is required between loading areas and a public screen there is no Landscaping buffer that exists today for that and then will not be in the future under the proposed conditions uh minimum L stre parking uh Landscaping one parking space shall be uh one parking space for every 30 spaces shall be landscaped we're not comping to we're not changing that situation not going be adding any parking within Landscaping within the parking spes uh we have a maximum number of signs we have one pring building sign and we're proposing one freestanding sign and two building signs which we don't have right now so that will be a VAR V Le we're asking for in this condition in this in this application the maximum sign area is 5% of the area to front wall the building are combined freestanding and building sign area 7805 square feet which is going again be a variance that's going be it already exceed it today but we're asking for a little bit more um minimum site justy we're reducing that from 89.3 to 7 oh I'm sorry we're reducing it from 89 89.3 to 7 so it's a new it's a change in the variance reducing we're reducing the on um uh we're also asking for a variance from the minum sign set back it's right now 30 30 ft Monument sign right now it's out there 6.7 ft going to stay the same uh commercial signs must be identical material shape lettering style it's not we're not find that different we have here so that would need variance and a sign illumination no sign with red green blue or Amber uh illumination shall be erected at this location we asked the digital sign which would have those colorful color combinations so we are asking for go with no okay so uh those are really the variances that we're asking for here tonight along with the waivers and other and other relief we've asked for that should do us I believe that would thank you for going through that I I appreciate that I I appreciate for completeness and to make sure that we have a complete resolution and we touch everything I I respect refle but I get overall it's same thing that's been there for years Mr child said he's been there since 1997 I believe it's been there for decades before that but what this is going to do is it's going to thank you um if the board is ready you're um you could consider a motion to approve the uh I have a question Tom is there uh is there a way to make the motion without granting them the variance reliefed for this sign that's against our ordinance um you could break it in two or more variance motions I'm not comfortable with the sign I mean I don't know how the other people feel but well one one idea is to poll the board do a polling uh of whether you know on the sign first perhaps to see uh do five of you of the seven who are eligible ran you're not technically eligible though you can deliberate about this and you can participate in Fall about it except the vote which is very significant that you can participate um and uh good so you could if that's the one variance that you're having some issues about you could perhaps do just the polling or or would would the five of the seven who are eligible Grant or not grant that sign uh digital sign variance I have a question your your objection is exact is the lighting or the sign itself what well um I'm not an expert by any means I just I I think that our ordinance is a good ordinance and I think it's in place for a reason and I don't see the need to shoot down our ordinance just because they want to put in a nice new sign there no no which ordinance sign we have we do have an ordinance that prohibits internally alum minated signs and that effectively prohibits uh digital sign with changing uh prices we don't allow gas stations at all in the town we have two pre-existing at least two pre-existing non-conforming ones and so that's I mean we know about the brightness on the one up the road I mean they can say whatever they want for me I I have a problem with it I don't think it makes sense okay I I I don't think you should cave for that I don't think it's gonna you know you're on the corner they're still going to see the sign I just don't see the need to to usurp our ordinance in this in this case but that's just me well I would just say I I don't I mean I have no idea but I would assume it's not a destination a gas station it's a gas station people go to because it's convenient it's not a place that people go out of their way or people use an unknown location everybody who uses it most probably knows it's there before they get there so that would mitigate towards what you're saying sign doesn't matter yeah I'm not sure that's true right it's it's right off 287 right if you're coming south on 287 that's that's the gas station you get to First the state highway right it's on the state highway and and quite frankly our job is to Grant exceptions towards owning ordinances it's like it's why know right I mean whether whether we think this application meets whatever criteria we each have is a different question but but to just say that we have an ordinance and we should stick with it then our relationship can handle it but the thing I think is important here is when technology brings along things that weren't contemplated at a time in ordinance was written and we knew what internally illuminated meant in the old days when we said we don't do that but the unique utility of this kind of a sign well managed again nothing like what's happening over in up the hill on Route 206 but properly managed it's a very effective way for this use to utilize that technology and it's I don't see how that really I respect your desire to stick with ordinances that make sense we adopted them for a reason I do think under these kind of circumstances you can look at this as the the benefit of changing technology that really does warrant consideration I'm not going to change your mind but I think when the board thinks about this if they're looking for any reason to say yes they'd probably be looking in that direction and just to add what Brent said um you're already going to do some reduction and brightness which is we appreciate it and you've also offered the engineer to come out take a look that and then the sign is going so the sign it's pretty much the Night Time is what we're worried about um and the sign will be off at closing for hour one after Clos hour after Clos so it's not even to be on at the night and in terms of making those conditions those things we've agreed to in the record in the resolution in case there's something that changes you know you can come after the site you can make the phone call and you can enforce the condition to make sure that we abide by it which my client will abide by but that being said if there's any concern that there's going to be any change to look look like what's going on off the road you will have it in your resolution be able to to enforce it against my client to make sure it happens although it's not going to be an issue our client just whispered in my ear He he'll quot he'll shut it that's good yeah that is better okay you know when you turn off it's it's it's gone yeah and it doesn't blink only time when we change the price up or down you know the number it will go up and then the number change but other than that it's a solid just like this light is stay there and at right 10:00 when we turn it off turn it off and it's done thank you for that sir yeah I was going to kind of piggy back on what Frank was saying because technology has changed and I personally think signs look Neer much tier than um the ones that you change the numbers and stuff I think they they look quite quite nice um as long as it's you know gim down and turned off it at the end Ian that's that's my main concern is is the brightness the Del that you guys all resp see sign probably sign for ,000 this is sign is about 30,000 and only manufactur by shell manufactur they come from there and that's why you have those on go up and down in brightness sign unbranded and and it has I read the the paper has a photo cell yes so it also was on so you don't have to adjust it different times in the year yeah your time probably it down earlier now I have one thing toward Tom um I just suggestion it sounds like there's more than five people who would approve the use variance with the digital sign with the condition very important about uh observation by the township engineer of the intensity of that light and all the lighting and adjustments as determined by Paul Ferrero um but we could do a vote on just that sign uh sounds like it's going to pass but um or we could perhaps I could draft the draft resolution with the condition about the inspection and observation the intensity of all lighting including that digital sign um and all the other conditions or I have a number they they've dealt with a lot of the things by putting them on the plan so yeah that's makes things a little simpler than some cases the other thing I just wanted to tell you about is that uh when it comes to a d variance like this when you're amending pre-existing non-conforming use um in this case the the gas station and the service station the the repair of vehicle is the one of the pre-existing non-conforming uses we all know maybe predated zoning I'm not sure but U definitely is a pre-existing nonconforming use because you found that or your board found that on at least two occasions and changes were made to upgrade it or to improve it um now one is being eliminated and replaced by increasing the size of an existing approved uh use variants for dun Donuts um that is consistent with the case law about called Burbridge versus Mine Hill in which a devv variant was granted to upgrade a classic pre-existing nonconforming use a junkyard and this is not a junkyard hopefully it will never be a junkyard but the concept of a de variant being granted to improve something or to better it um is sound and is supported by the Supreme Court affirs of Judge Stanton in that Burbridge case so I think you you've dealt with this property in other times because of the need to let's call it upgrade pre-existing non-conforming uses because they tend not to go away right they tend not to be abandoned they tend not to be eliminated and it's you know sometimes necessary to look at them and know that this is not allowed in the zone it hasn't been allowed in the zone since the alha Zone was created but it does exist and it it may need um betterment so maybe George if this makes sense I try to make a motion do the motion but all the conditions including the condition about the intensity of the digital lighting one thing I wanted you all to realize is that and I didn't fully realize is they're actually removing internal illumination of some of the signage and replacing it with external illumination of the shell sign and of the the price board by just having internal illumination of the pricing and having a down lit lighting of the of the freestanding sign so that in a way is an improvement toward one of our ordinances it doesn't deal with the ordinance about no yellow or red or green uh signage um but it does deal with it reduces the internal the size of the internal illumination that helps you at all 42 it's going to go down to 10% of the so right now we have a sign that's fully illuminated internally when we're done we'll have an externally illuminated sign like I say about 10% that will still be internally because have LEDs but I'm not saying You must Grant this I'm just saying these are things to consider in your decision making so um so I'll maybe craft of draft and you think about whether it it works for the five people so it's a motion to approve the U C I'm sorry the D and C variances and site plan exceptions as requested okay I I don't have an exception with sign I just made a comment I don't have an exception to to uh that part of the application do you have any further comments Steve no no okay and I think we're going to do something about I know you have one concern about so um so it's the motion to approve the uh C and D variances and site plan exceptions and prelim amended preliminary final site plan of 1525 Bedminster LLC subject to the stand conditions and subject to the testimony and representations in the record in this hearing uh be subject to Paul and Frank's reports they'll be subject to a condition that the LED lighting in general and all Lighting in general and the lighting uh LED lighting of the price board and on the freestanding sign for the gas prices and carene or diesel price shall be subject to the review and approval of the township engineer as to in appearance any dispute with the township engineer would return to the board for final determination there will be no as offered by the applicant and is understood by the board there'll be no retail sales uh in the sell station office space and it'll be solely used for the shell office and shell storage uh the only sales that will take place will be sales at the gas pumps and for customary and and subordinate things that are related to gas station use such as wipers windshield washer fluid and uh auto automotive fluids um they will uh this will be subject to Somerset County planning board approval uh they will remove all cloth signs from the property um and the uh revisions offered by the applicant in Prior meetings and in tonight's meetings will be included into the approved and signed plans uh this and and the sign will be turned off at closing and the sign the signs in will be turned off at closing and the only lights that will remain on will be the security lights that are approved by Paul for Township engineer and one of them was to additional one to be possibly I think on the building for servicing the EV Chargers that are near that space is there a motion to that effect I'll make a motion I'll second it roll call please Mr Walter Mr orbana I Mr Leonard hi Mr vas I Mr djini I Mr first hi chaira hi congratulations if I may thank this this has been several applications several times Mr Collins as well has been a terrific person to work with in this and and again your staff and everybody else and we do wish to thank you very much for all of your time in this and uh again hopefully you'll be very happy with the product at the end thank you good luck thank you congratulations we have to keep that that's an exhibit yes please by way other sign look at your C we live now yes anybody else on the board have anything they want to discuss or bring up no okay so then we just schules yes we scheduling yes let's do schedule good news as of right now there's not one single thing that we have not we did we've done all our work you you guys all get gold stars every one of these applications we've gone through oh at this point so that's 11 to date in September see the ball I I'm I'm sure that it's not the end I'm sure there'll be others that come in but at this very moment we do not have any okay not that you know that haven't been seen or read no there just are not so at this point I'd have to say September is looking like we're off but I I I will keep it posted yep all right thanks Janine you do a great job as always thank you okay all right do I hear a motion to adjourn a motion to adjourn second think first who said [Laughter] first and thank you all right we're good all thank he fixed the M we went back