adequate notice of this meeting of the zoning Board of adjustment was sent by email to the as Park Press and the co-star our official newspapers and wased on [Music] the Mr Mr Al Mr lben here Mr Dior here Mr O'Neal here m here please rise for to the flag of the United States do today Mr Kennedy very good thank you Mr K before we get started I just want to make an announcement for everyone's just kind of set expectations we have four U um applicants that we' like to try to this evening and we are planning for a hard stop at 10:00 so I'm asking that the applicants try to budget their time to one hour or less if it turns out they need more time than that they can come back after the fourth applicant has presented assuming that we have time left between when the when the last applicant is is finished and it's not yet 10 o' but I just want to set an expectation for everyone so we can move along and one way to do that is to focus on the varant es that are at hand because really we only have one job here we either approve or deny a request for variance other than that that's the only thing that we're here to do tonight so uh please keep that in mind with your presentation try to keep it them now if you could all right Mr P okay uh good evening and oh I guess we should do so we have the minute for the mar special meeting if there's anyone inclined they can make a motion to approve that I'll make that motion all right uh next is the resolution uh for 903 Ocean Avenue Unit 5 this was uh with that unique Ocean Breeze Condominium Association this particular application uh was Demolition of an existing two family home and construction of a new single family home and just U just we have two similar resolutions tonight I just wanted to say uh I apologize I got the resolutions late but basically we're saying there's nine condominium units located within this building uh some are one story building some are one and a half story some are two and a half and some are three and unlike many standard condominium complex there's been uniform building design throughout the complex it's a variety of of buildings and this is a unique situation and uh just because we've had this conversation before extensively at the board level we're saying with regard to the association a challenging question has been raised as to how the floor eror ratio building coverage and lot coverage figures are to be calculated I.E should the calculations be based on the size of the individual buildings SL unit or should it be calculated based upon the size of the Association complex and after extensive review and in consultation with uh the prior burough engineer the zoning office has determined to basically take the most conscientious and conservative approach so that we're calculating all these based on the cumulative impact and this situation has basically led to a a philosophy of a communal floor area ratio policy which has led to a you know unique situation where at the last meeting one of the unit owners needed floor area ratio variants and the second owner did not because it's a communal and we're just saying that this is a uh basically a unique situation so um the conditions of note for this particular application were uh confirmation that they comply with the prevailing fire rating requirements and they have two dedicated parking spaces on site for the applicant's use um confirmation that they knowingly and perpetually abandon the two family use associated with the existing structure um the new structure is going to be fire rated uh gutters and leaders are going to be installed on the roof uh confirmation that the seller shall be labeled as and function as a seller not a basement in accordance with our Burrow's regulations uh confirmation that they install a trench train if recommended by the burough engineer confirmation that the building coverag is 30.4% and not 29.7 uh they install conf that they install new permeable sidewalks and then this was just want to hit this one confirmation that the applicant shall remove the existing conrete sidewalk and replace the same with a new permeable paver walkway should the association Andor the affected neighbor consent should such consent be necessary and by the way we said by the way the board has no authority to authorize the applicant to remove pavers loc located on a property owned by another um and then basically we just sort of and I think this is going to be the condition in all units involving that Association that it's a unique situation and there was question raised as to whether individual unit owners own a specific portion or whether it's common areas and all those types of things the natural extension of that is um you know where does one unit owner's individual rights begin and end and where the other individual unit owners rights begin and end relative to the property and we basically said here that the answer is probably in the public offering statement and the bylaws of the association that's sort of beyond our purview as zoning board but it is important so we encourage the applicant to check that out with the association check that out with the applicants real estate attorney Title Company lender and all those things because it at some point that could be an important issue not for us in terms of the zoning and respectfully we don't retain any jurisdiction on that matter but they really should um check that out anyway that's the gist of the conditions for second Mr Mr yes Mr Mr Mr yes Mr Mr yes the next was uh Andrew Chi 2081 16th Avenue we approved this application last month this was uh use variance and both variance approval associated with the request to construct an addition to an existing two family home now there are a lot of uh conditions on here I'll hit that briefly only because of the nature of the change modified application that came uh at the last minute but the uh basically uh the conf the conditions were uh the down confirmation that the downstairs unit once renovated and expanded shall only contain three bedrooms bathrooms and confirmation that there should be no improvements to the upstairs unit with the exception of we are allowing them to install a new bathroom correct uh we have uh uh and again at the end of the day the upstairs unit will have two bedrooms and two bathrooms uh and confirmation that uh The Loft area in the upstairs unit shall not be utilized for bedroom sleeping purposes and the applicant has to and successor applicants have to advise existing and future tenants of that restriction and and um marketing efforts and leasing efforts have to affirmatively reference that restriction and there should be uh Tony we have confirmation that there shall be two separate utility Meers for water sewer gas and electric um and confirmation that they're going to have AIA slot coverage and confirmation that they have a forming f um confirmation that there's four off street parking spaces remember they're losing a garage but they still said they have four um confirmation that the concrete shall be removed from the rear and side of the property and replaced with perious pavers and um let's see uh the grass areas shall be placed or shall be placed along the western side of the property and grass and papers shall be placed along the side of the property in accordance with the testimony uh gutters and down Stouts placed on the new roof concrete walkway inclusion of a new concrete walkway from the street to the front door I'm sorry inclusion of a note confirming that the concrete walkway from the street to the front door shall be removed and replaced with perious papers uh air conditioner placed in a backyard area in a zoning compliant location um now the two dormers on the back grof are being eliminated correct correct okay and then I had a question mark here was there something about closets or was that just sort of really have to wor I think no closets on the second in the second unit no closets in the living area Loft area so no closets in The Loft area and then um no further intensification or expansion absent further uh approval of this board uh and again revised plans be submitted to show that uh the changes that were made in in the waning moments of that application so if that's acceptable we can adopt that as just two notes for me I'm not sure if we made it a condition to remove the sidewalk on the east side of the retaining there wall there for some reason I think I said I mean I would prefer that I don't know if we did not I my notes and we can change but for some reason did I have a note that said the sidewalk on the east side is going to remain concrete wall there concerned is that what you want tell I would pref push that okay pretty much we let it go because of they eliminated the bathroom making it a not any noet no the bathro located that's right the height yes and is that noted I think it is but confirm what we what were we Lear like do you remember okay got it you were just testing so there no no there was no variance on this one okay so that's accept we can adopt that as amended motion second all right the third and final resolution is Leo that's 101 9th Avenue Unit 9 and again the same things that I read in the first apply here and the conditions of note here were um uh the garage shall not be utilize his living space confirmation that the second and third floor window shall comply with and otherwise satisfy all prevailing Building C Construction code regulations the air conditioning condenser to be placed in his zon location uh now I think uh Chu we had here confirmation that the height shall not exceed 35.5 ft is that that I know they said the lower okay confirmation that the applicants have rededicated parking space for their exclusive use um uh fire Windows shall be installed on the second and third floor and the front setback I had a confirmation that's either 19.82% [Music] uh review with their Association and and legal people about the unque property ownership within that condo complex were there any questions on that one Windows Windows yes yeah so what was it it was um fire windows on the second and third floor it was an option if that's an option that and to um whether or not because it's a dissociation if they canall on the side of the house okay remember yeah right there's a quotequote property line but it's tax line it's not property L right and then that goes to our other this is a unique situation ass okay so we'll add that subject to building and construction code confirmation just FY on that seemed like construction allow be there seem break up wall and make it look a lot better so we were encouraging that although we recognize it really is our but if you had been here we probably would have been deferring to you to say let's look into that because if there could be code compant Windows install let's try to do that especially when Mr joher brought up the fact that it's not truly um separate um properties given you know that that rule is like my house is on a property line and your house is 5 foot away from there less right and this is not property right property La exactly so that's what we came up with there was still a significant distance between the next structure and there always will be so we were sort of like up mind to say window encourage let the windows go in 3 to five 25% open you're allow right 5 or more the property line in question is the condo property it's the inside property it's not a to property line Fe theer right encourage them but we were recognizing it's not really up to us because we have to defer the building Cod and was it was it just more windows or putting windows on that facade putting put got it only have one yes so we'll um note that if that's acceptable we can adopt that as as amended I'll make motion we approve it yeah Mr yes is that it Mr Kenny yes okay we're ready for the first applicant um 2138 avue Susan towns all right as the applicant comes forward we'll do preliminary and procedural things is there anyone here any questions or comments change Mr diorio is refusing himself he lives within perfect okay so is there anyone here who had any questions comments or concerns regarding the sufficiency of the notice they received in connection with this application okay so the board secretary and I reviewed it and found the notice and found everything to be in order so it be my humble opinion that we have jurisdiction to proceed and what we'll do is we'll swear in Ted bian uh for the first of four times tonight 10 you are the construction officer zoning officer of the burar you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the extent you provide any would be the truth best your knowledge to help you guys okay and uh we Mar into the rec we as a board have before us A1 is the development application package and that's dated February 1st 2024 and A2 is going to be a handdrawn uh Flore plan uh presumably prepared by the homeowner and we'll mark that as A2 that's undated and A3 is a survey of the property and that's prepared by Edward angster and that is [Music] dated look say it's undated so oh but it's here it's actually signed July 25th 2003 so that will be A3 A4 is the minor land zoning permit uh denial form and that is dated March 9th 2023 March 10 2023 I think that's it April right yes all right so good evening if you could just take your name and we're going to swear you in PA by your last name g y okay and who are you in relation to this application I'm a contractor of job okay and is your client with you tonight no she not okay um do you all right so you're the contractor for Susan towns yes okay and um I know your name is on the application and just your client the owner of the property yes Susan andol okay and do you know how long they've owned that property if you know yes they've owned it since 2000 okay and then they built the house on in 2002 okay and you know we're just going to square you in let me just sweare you in for a second uh do you swear that the information in testimony you're about to provide will be the truth to the best of your knowledge to help you guide I okay and theyve owned it since 2000 the home was built in about 2002 and my not reflect as a single family home yes that's correct okay and uh I think there's a detached garage there yes okay and why don't you just uh tell about the existing Garage in terms of the size and the height you hold for a second I have a couple administrative questions I'd like to get squared away before we get too deep into the application short just to make sure this um plan that was submitted the the site plan um I think you said was dat 2003 Mr K I had trouble finding I only found it because ail found it for me can can you attest that current conditions on this site are identical to what stated on this map in 2003 did you personally take measurements does that show the detached garage it's showing a 25 by 23 by 24 structure I think 23 so that that was done a couple years ago I built that a couple years ago right so here's where I'm going with my questions since we have no information regarding building coverage and impervious impervious lot coverage we're sort of Flying Blind here and this is what's called expansion of a nonconform use so for us to have legitimate questions and and about it would be very difficult because we don't really know what the current um computations are any reason why this wasn't filled out we did update that when we built the garage that was all updated that was required by the town all i' to go back my notes I know we did address but we take that all into account when we're weighing applications as to whether or not you know how close you are you're currently over on block coverages or setbacks or whatever may exist on the site and this whole section is not sold out surve was approved by Z department on surve see it's right here but isn't that probably went before they did the addition in 2003 like isn't this number like this is a 2003 Sur I think is the point there the numbers are on there but is that right and then sub subsequent to that there could have been changes made to the back there could have been P put down or things done that we don't know Mr D does the driveway go straight back to the re it's not shown on the so this plan not reflective of actual current unfortunately in my opin we can't hear this application because we're not looking at updated sign seal Sur which is why I want to leave because they didn't want to spend the time in the application only to to later on come to you know point out that we don't seem to have the proper um information in front of us to be able to to to help with this appc understand right I know it's a time we buil I say time we built the it's all good I we knows what we have in front of us tonight right like the other things that happened before this should be reflective of right if it was A current survey there would probably be little to no questions but this survey is dated 2003 and you know you're acknowledging that the garage didn't exist and it's drawn in on this particular plan but then nothing is really reflective to show what the garage did to change the numbers that would typically be our mission the survey was updated there's no driveway on it you indicate right as as Mr Al said indicated that the papers lead up into the garage but the survey does not show that this says 85 square feet of papers to be removed but think today the papers go straight into the garage and it's not shown on here at all this is no reflection upon you or thec we need a loation survey would nice to know that sooner probably that just go so um obviously and again the burdens on you to bring to the board what they need um so Mr chairman I'm assuming that you want to carry this so that you can get more uh information on on the plans so that you can have a more fully review and I'm assuming I would ref to the Judgment of all of the board members not just my judgment when it comes to that whether or not want see given given what you know right and if if it is adjourned um they would do it presumably without requiring you to Ren notice so you don't have to do the certified letters again is is that the feeling of the board every time we do something like this and we don't have all the information it fites us I don't think we should and what I what I would also say is and I say this respectfully because if the board and I have no idea if they're going to approve the application or not but if they approve the application and there's things that you additional relief you need that are not on here that's only going to cause you angst delay cost and time and frustration later on so I know it's frustrating now but as Mr Greg was sort of saying it's it's sort of if you're going to get it done and again I have no idea whe the application is going to be approved or not but if it is approved you don't want to have it to come back later on is there any way we could cover bathroom part of the issue as far as I don't think we'd be able I don't think we'd be able to C I I don't think we'd be able to get to a vote on that um if the board is to hear you know a little more about what you're planning to do I don't know I don't think it's going to help in terms of i' personally just like to hear what is the necessity of a full bathroom in a loft area above Gage on a nonf finish okay so with that let's let's agree that will we will allow him to do presentation but we're not we're not V this not but is everybody open to hearing him present yes I hear yeses yes yes okay yes okay Mr day yes but we will not vote okay yes so basically they they have a need for a bathroom detach he has hobes that he does does work in the garage and it's just so Mr and again not to put on the spot and I know you're trying to do not only represent them but represent yourself as a builder and represent potentially what would have been their land use attorney that maybe they would had a good idea bringing one here to make sure everything was in order before they came here but are you familiar with the idea of positive and negative criteria relative to the a request for variance right well I understand how that would be positive criteria for that individual to have in the garage but I don't know how it would be positive criteria for for any for anyone else um and you know the negative criteria would be clear that you know you're potentially making it a a doile a dwelling by adding a full bath into it regardless of what promises might be made that they'll never use it that way um that's an unenforceable promise so can I can I ask clarification what kind of variant are we looking for this isn't a use variant though I believe is use variant because technically under our ordinance head a garage has to be for storage of vehicles corre or maybe storage so in terms of your review letter garages are for storage of vehicles and uh living space is not permitted in the garage and I guess when you Tak the position that if you put a bathroom in there that's living space it's not per okay okay so that's so then need to use variants to put a bath in a garage I don't consider a bathroom a half bathroom in a garage as living space okay so that it is a it's it's a better option yeah would have that require variance also oh yeah so you You' have to come back here we wait for like a year for this what is the garage currently being used for it's well like I said it uses as a workpace stairs so it looked like it has a dorm right like there's Windows what's upstairs is that finished space it's just empty space yeah it's not finished uh it's they they finished it B is there heat there I don't no heat in the so you're just looking bathroom there for conveni home no neighbors anybody else I think you're have to come back to some positive criter other than convenience to the homeowner that happens to be in the Gage not walk 20 to his house this 12 months a year use the house um no the garage the bathroom in the garage I believe soat okay so I think obviously there's we have some incomplete information I mean that these would have to be absolute you know put in bathroom in it's going to be use 12 months a year to at um you know there's going to have to be a much more you know confirmed testimony that we can go on in addition to an updated site plan so it's really in your hands if you choose to come back but I can tell you creating what would appear to be a new additional separate dwelling um you know with the potential for it to become that um you know in violation of you know what look be permissible um you know it would be a tough ask I can't speak to how the other neb each I'll use Mr Kennedy he's taught me well over the years each application stands and falls on its own marit um there's extenuating circumstances for each one different conditions so um any precedent that may have happened is not relevant to this particular application but it would certainly help you know if there was you know an attorney an attorney and well prepared case that that that took into account the positive and negative criteria that would allow us to grant that D but you know we don't have that right now so I just think we're very incomplete at this stage so the question would be um at what point you want to come back and I know the answer might be as soon as possible um but it just you're going to have to get some of the plans completed so that might be April when would be the next um hearing date think get plans completed so is there room on the agenda for that yes do you want to come back May 23rd yeah why don't you that you know I sounds like we're not well I mean In fairness you have to put you know the applicant has the burden to testify and present testimony to to solicit them to say hey you've proven your case you've proven the standards um the variant standards are XYZ and you've proven them so that's what you're going to have to do and you can call April and she'll loot me in and we can have a greater uh private discussion on on what some of those standards are and um so I just need to ask for the record do you on behalf of uh the owner uh consent to extend the time frame with which the board has to act so yes okay and what we'll do Mr chairman if we could have a motion to carry this to May 23rd 2024 6:00 p.m. without the need for any further public notice um with one condition that that all of the information will be supplied to our Clerk and and to our zoning officer in advance at least 10 days in advance it has to be submitted that's why so that will be May 13th to to these folks so then they could tell you it looks like we've got everything that we needed to avoid again you know why comment why didn't we know sooner you know if we would avoid that for the May meeting if you get this St by May 13th okay so we have a motion to carry I'll make I do want to make a comment before we join this application too that you know the the the burden to a completed application is on the applicant not Upon Our burrow staff or our burrow team so if during the course of this we discover something to the absent it comes back into the the applican hands um it's not a fault of of anyone in our Construction office or or in the office okay thanks right thanks second application is Steve and Debbie irn 3178 [Music] way so Mr chairman this is the application and I guess we should ask for the record uh is there anyone here who had any questions or comments or concerns regarding the sufficiency of the notice they receive okay the board secretary and I review the notice and found everything to be in order so again my opinion that we have jurisdiction to proceed tonight uh we will spare in Ted bian our construction officer and Zoning officer Ted do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to to the extent you provide will be the TRU the best knowledge to help you guys okay and we will March into the record le as a board have before us a one is the development application package and that's dated January 8th 2024 and a two is going to be the burrow of Belmar minor land use zoning permit uh denial form and that's dated December 19th 2023 December 21st 2023 A3 is a boundary and topographic survey prepared by Landmark surveying an engineering and that's dated February 11th 2023 A4 is a plot plan uh with grading details prepared by landmark and that's dated September 21st 2023 uh consisting of two sheets and A5 is the architectural floor plans and elevations prepared by uh Tom an architect and that's dated December 11th 2023 and that's consisting of five sheets and I think that's it right so this is um Tim Middleton he'll be representing the applicants tonight and good evening sir yeah good evening members of board director Timothy mil on beh of Mr mrsn Mr is here tonight we're here tonight to permission to home at 177 there two variances for requested one is for Building height um I believe the denial notice ref 38 ft the variance is actually 37 ft you'll hear from Mr Peterson who's an architect and a planner the property is just in the a flood zone one the one property over not the flood zone unfortunately he's in the flood zone U the idea is to have because you can't have a basement is to have an elevated area so for storage it's not a basement and that that's the cause of the height issue the second variance relates to the of Theos and the existing pool in the back door and U that that all being said I introduce Mr Peterson provide hiss there I know one sure and uh Mr chairman just one thing for the record I spoke with Mr Middleton today as you're aware a height variance can be a bulk variance or a use D variance depending on the nature of usually it's it's a 10 foot or 10% deviation or less it's a c variance if it's more it's a d variance and that affects the standards so uh Tim just for the record we'll hear your architect say it later on but it looks like this is a bulk C variance 35 ft allow uh 37 fet 37 prop so we have the bulk C got it so Mr Peterson good evening and welcome if you could just state your name and business address Tom Peterson I'm the architect on the project I'll be uh the address of six Country Lane how New Jersey all right if you just raise your right arm do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth best your knowledge to help you that yes and for the record you're testifying as a license certified up to date with all your credentials architect and planner yes thank evening everyone provide hand got other things that I'm going to show you but uh I want to introduce these as evidence so that April has them some photographs an aerial photograph and then a color rendering all right so let's just give me the first one I'm going to Mark as A6 and what is A6 okay yeah we'll just do it and then we'll mark the rest as A7 and what photographs five photographs and then just five photographs existing houses okay then and hold on with regard to those A7 five photographs for those pictures taken by you or your office yes and roughly when okay so that that would make it a realistic portrayal of what exists on site and April will mark them a s a b c d and then also we have a color rendering so A8 is going to be at rendering of the proposed new house proposed new home prepared by by my office okay is there a date on that uh no all right when you get over there you just dat today ail 18 2024 and then one last thing uh block plan from Landmark right that has one of the numbers corrupted on so this is an updated PL plan so we say updated plot plan uh prepared by landmark and what's the date on it April 18 2024 and has a corrected uh zoning chart on it all right I've also got just two other these are exactly what I've just given I do have something that I'd like to let's try to get this um squared away before we get too deep into it it's better to get it out of the way first either stated an error or there's an eror what we're looking at but um all of the information we have here shows 38 ft is being requested that's corre we heard over here 37 37 is what we're asking for our so why does it say 38 on this on this um that was an error by Landmark can we correct all the errors then let's go through the errors because this is saying 38 on on the blueprints also so for the record even though 38 was what was proposed they're stating now that the actual requested height is 37 okay and that applies to both this this chart I don't know sure 37 38 a so all plans will be if if the application approved all plans be rised ask for if that's approved that you could make that a condition resolution as well great let's just get that square just we saw the discrepancy that want to make sure we don't continue with it okay good when do we do this go through your exhibits U and then we should delve into you're looking for height and then proximity of pool to the accessory structure other than that there's no other variant no right okay so let me just go over very quickly what we we start with where we're going I said only I think your budget is40 I'm going to do that um this is an existing property um this is over on 8th Avenue I'm sure you've seen it it's across the uh the street from the park and the uh the playground over there in the lake um it's the existing structure is a uh almost like a split level certainly not what we would consider a seore type of a home um as well as Tim just said this is in a flood zone it just Clips the property but that does make it a flood zone compi or flood zone required to be compliant home so what we're proposing is that uh the existing home as it is right now as you can see um is not flood zone compant it's not compant a lot there's some space living space down here level our proposal is that what we're going to be doing is tearing the house down rebuilding it um and then putting a new detached garage in the back the property in the lot is complying uh we we comply with the uh the area we comply with the width we comply with the depth uh to that end we're not asking for any variances for setbacks we're going to comply with all of those we're not asking for any variances for cover in fact I think we're eliminating a front yard set side yardgard and Sh yeah so there's a couple of um existing non-conformances that we're going to be eliminating uh the new uh the new uh structure will comp as I said we are in a flood zone so everything we do has to comply with the flood zone requirements for construction uh we're in the a um A10 there uh as such we can't have a basement so the CW space area and these are just some photographs you can see here's the aerial photograph uh you all know exactly where it is here's some photographs of the existing home and then just a couple of photographs that show kind of looking at the uh the side of the front here so our proposal is to build a new home as I said we're going to comply with all of the um uh side yard setback front yard set back take a look at the floor plans and I'm going to go over this quickly um first floor plan second floor plan very typical for what we see in most homes uh you've got the four bedrooms upstairs we've got a small little ALC for an in house office which is becoming more and more popular in common first floor is the very typical open Family area living dining uh kitchen area we've got some mud room and some functional things in back again because we're in a flood zone the Mechanicals down in the basement or call space area so we're required to put those up here so that's why you see a mechanical area there uh there's a bathroom on that floor we're also proposing a half story up above or by building habitable L the metrics for that comply with the township requirements for um what we can have up there at the 5 foot height as well as the building code requirements for what we can have at a 7 foot height so all of that complies what we were trying to do though is to because we can't have a basement we wanted to try to make that what we're calling a crawl space get as much Headroom as we can even at that we're we're just under seven feet down there if you see where the girds would be the structure that's going to be at about six feet um so you know even at my height that's it's starting to get a little constricted uh that space is not going to be used for anything other than typical storage that you would have uh it can't be it can't be used as any kind of habitable space I'm sorry which space is that you said what's that that can't be used as as it can't be used as what I'm sorry what area we you this is the the ground floor got it okay we're calling it a crawl space it's a little bit more than a crawl but it's not it's not habitable space it doesn't meet the uh building code requirement for what you would have space um you know where the gers are is at about a six height this gives the homeowners and the applicant some place where they can store things uh in addition to the garage that we have out there uh there'll be an access into that from outside um but beyond that there's no plan for anything down there by building code we're not allowed to have anything down there anyway so uh you'll see that the exterior walls are masonry um we can't have anything that doesn't comply with flood resistant materials down there so if you look at the um the elevation you see it's this space down below and you can see what that we have the ston workor down there up to that height where the flood line is because we're trying to get some height down there because we're trying to get some height up above and because of how the height is measured which is the average grate around the house um to try to get that just under 7 ft down there and then to get the space up above we're about 2T exactly F feet over the required height of 35 ft our uh our hardship here is that we're in a flood zone we have no opportunity to take that ground level and sink it into the ground which would help us achieve that so I clearly if you were able to construct the basement this would not even be close to correct and again technically we are right on the flood zone line this so so if you take a look at the new house and you take a look at how we've designed it now we have very much a seashore style of home I'm not going to get into too much of the the details of that but if you take a look at the different roof lines if you take a look at the different window patterns you know now you can see this is starting to reflect that that that style of that high period of when the when Shore Homes were really starting to be built here you know that that the 20s that 30s um and it would very much fit in with so many of the other new homes that we have in town you know they uh it is a short town and this is a part of the architecture that really fits in with everything else that's going on we've introduced some different materials here that's also a part of that style of architecture if you take a look at where we're exceeding it's just a small little Peak up here so it's not the roof line isn't done in such a way that you really feel that MK it really is done in a way that you don't feel and although you can't really accurately show this with a uh with a rendering the house also sits up as you get closer and closer to the street and across the street the house is above that but the but we have to measure the height the average grade around the house itself so the apparent height of the house going to look less than than being that far over cell um you can see we've also introduced some different materials and all that U we think this is of course a much better solution a much better aesthetic than than what's there existing now the house in the property also has an existing pool in back but the owners would like to get a detached garage which is you know very common throughout town in order to push it back and be able to at least try to swing a car into that space there we had to push this garage back as far as we could there's an existing shed there now which is non-compliant in terms of setbacks but we're holding the back of the garage to that distance from the uh from the four which is just under 5 ft um the uh the only other solution to that would be to try to start pulling the garage closer to the house which would make it very difficult to pull into the garage in terms of how you would have access to it as well as then start to violate the distance that you're supposed to have between a garage and a house so we felt that doing this was the best solution um we're also uh clearing up like I said some of the setbacks between the shed of the property line and turning this into the garage is simply a garage there's no avitable space there uh just heard from the previous there's no bathroom in there there's noit space up above there'll be a pull down stairs to the area but the height complies the only thing that we did was take a look at the garage elevations we put a couple of Dormers in the front and the reason for that was once again the aesthetic of how we want that to look so again the look of the garage we're trying to make it feel as uh as much as uh in compliance with the house so we have a couple of Dormers up there but I don't want to constru that in any way that's meant to be spaced in fact if you take a look at the ceiling height of the garage itself which is a little over 9 fet and the overall height of the uh the garage itself there's no real room up there that you could make that habitable anyway so what's what's the size of the BR uh the garage is but the garage complies with the um oh yeah 20 by 20 440 which is what we're allow so room enough for a car so I'll just go over some real quick planning testimony this is kind of Tech stuff but um you know under njac 40 col 55d 70c one and two these are C variances this is not a use variance we are well under the 38 and a half as Kevin said the 10% above allowable that would throw us into a d variance you know C variance there's a C1 variant there's a C2 variants C1 is the hardship so we have to show that there's something that us have to be visible the fact that we're in a flood zone is what contributes to the height variance there the fact that the pool is existing and where it exists in the property uh is what um brings us to the setback variants to the garage there's also the C2 variants which is the substantial benefit um that may be even more uh telling here in that the substantial benefit is that now we get a more functional use of a house here we're eliminating quite a few variances in terms of construction wind load the current energy code requirements but this is important as all of that is flood zone construction compliance uh if you take a look at the the house of proposing versus the um the existing structure is very much a benefit to the neighborhood it's a benefit to the neighbors and it's a benefit to the town itself um with really no apparent violation of the zoning ordinance there's nothing here that looks out of place or that looks too high or um looks like it's not something that belongs in the neighborhood so as you point if you can put the elevation again the two feet is really that PE just it's just a little Peak here so if you take a look at you know a part of the uh charm of uh Seashore style architecture is the play the different uh the different roof lines the different materials that we have here part of the house that's out the most is well below that 37 ft it's the main Ridge that's behind that and that really is not a predominant part of the elevation if the variances were granted would there be any detriment to the surrounding neighor no not at all this doesn't pose any detriment this doesn't pose any adverse conditions for the surrounding neighbors as you know we're improving a couple of the setbacks that exist now and making them conform so there's nothing I hear whatsoever that would be in any way adverse to neighbors faces in terms of block and across the street is that beautiful Park and playground and the lake right behind it too so we're kind of excited because this has a this gets a nice a nice view a nice vbody besides all the things aesthetically be more so that open up to the U questions from the board start from this hanger down there the only question that all theout and everything where's sorry what's that all the down spouts the run off on the roof and everything where where's that all going we will control all the water on site uh we'll work with Ted on if we need an underground um uh water management uh system it's usually blood Zone but we'll we'll work out that with Ted but uh whatever Ted requires in terms of storm water management everything will be taken care of so I had a clarification question um I thought that if you were in a flood zone the was measured by above Bas elevation noty you said something about measuring from the the ground I thought well so yeah the a yeah the average grade around the house is at that base elevation that's how close we are to to where base is 10 base flood is 10 and we like we're like so then you don't have to you don't really have to be that high it's just that you want space underneath order to have any stor because we we can't go below elevation okay so if we went and dug even a foot elevation weate your which is good right so it comes down to you need to be able to store stuff you need there's a pool table basement the owner was saying how do I judge how big this is what kind of size it is and all that so but no this is not going to be as I said this is testimony this going to be a part of the resolution there is no uh um it's for storage there's going to be no habitable space no uh party rooms or anything like that and just to be clear I mean so you all so if I walk into this what we call cross bace B there's going to be GS at 6 feet so if the if the height to the floor structure is 7t but we have girds where those where those have to have to meet those those girders are roughly a foot so at those points you're down at 6 feet so if I'm walking across the basement about I'll be I boots on or something I'm going to have it would it wouldn't be a place where you go want to go as well you know where that where that floor elevation is so we have to keep it I hate to take so much time but this is important tell correct me if I'm wrong but when you when you when you're constructing in a flood zone there's all kinds of um issues that you have to deal with with the height of the floor even if it's a crawl space floor you have to deal with those things too the front of the house is at about elevation 9 and that's where we have keep that ground slab at because we can't have it too far out so if you go to the back where we're at about elevation 10 the floor is is just slightly below the grve there the reason for that the logic for that is a construction thing not a zoning thing you have to be able to allow the water to flow in and out you can't have the floor that's why you can't have a basement you can't have it below but the code also says they don't want the floor to be above that either because now you've got a hydrostatic pressure against that so that's why we have the the craw space elevation is at nine and that that is what gets us to the uh to the height but the height is measured from Ted by Ted from 10 and that's what gets us at the 37t height uh second question so the height of the attic area um the ceiling height if you take a look at the ceiling in the Attic I know you guys see this all the time so there's two measurements that we have to be concerned with one is the zoning requirement which is the 5 foot height and that's why when you go up into these attics you see a lot of them you have the walls come up to 5T and then they pitch up from there the 7 foot height is where we have to measure for the building code you don't care about building code but we have to because the building code determines what fire R the house with have so we also comply with the 7 foot too but that's that's where you measure then there's a little part above that that can go to 8 ft so if you were to this house was constructed and you were to go up here it's 9 ft wide at the 7 foot height and then it pitches up another foot and you've got you know roughly five or six foot section where it's at the 8 foot height what the building code says is we just want to know what at the 7t height because that then determines what fire rating the house is and it's 5 a or 5 no I just trying I'm trying to understand but then you got the second floor is 8 foot high ceiling you have the first floor 9 foot high correct so is there any discussion on I'm sorry say again the first floor is 9 foot first floor is 9 foot second floor is 8 foot 9 foot is I'm sure you've seen is an incredibly typical for a first floor area why is that first floors now have become more and more open people like open kitchen areas they like open Family areas they like open dining areas it's different than it used to be so many years ago where people had smaller spaces 8ot ceiling would feel uh compressed in that area I would take a foot out of the top floor before I took a foot out of that 9 on the first floor you take off the if if if I had to choose between I don't think that we should have to either if I had to choose I would take it off I mean you're out of compliance 37 and 35 and you got an extra a foot extra need I don't know I'm just trying to think it more um think about it uh next question I had is in the garage it's a two door garage two door garage two B garage but the plot plan shows survey shows looks like strips is that is your driveway going to be strips like strips y so down on the yeah so it only looks like you'd be able to get in maybe to the First Bank car and that's probably how they're going to use it the second Bay is more than likely going to be um uh you know yard equipment and things like that I I you know I know that they have a a smaller sports car that they might just pull it off the lawn and store over the winter but that' be about it think you'd be able to get there with that stairwell that's that's so my question then is you're not counting that as a parking space the second day well we have parking spaces stack but no okay so you can the parking without that second all question uh he asked a lot of the questions that I was going to ask one of the other questions I had was utilities ground is it possible to get them under ground oh yes we're going we're going to should have utilities under ground yes thank you Mr Beautiful Can you educate me on what the requirement is what is the elevation that we have to be at to start building if the Bas elevation is there the elevation is 10 the first floor is supposed to be at 12 that's where that's the minimum it has to be 2T above 2 feet above the base flood elevation there's a reason for that you say well if the base flood elevation was 10 just have the first FL of 10 well you have a foot of structure nobody wants to put that In Harm's Way Then you have What's called the freeboard which is another foot a lot of people like a couple of feet some towns now are starting to require uh F feet and even 3 ft of freeboard because there you have duct work you have other uh pluming and things like that and those flood requirements are getting strier less so you see uh with the latest tea map that came out more areas are in a flood zone than that and they're starting to reassess what those flood elevations are who knows what the future is going to be but I can tell you that this will never go to a anything less than 10 20 years could be in a12 so that's why you see a lot of towns are requiring it to be more than that anyway that helps with their uh uh their flood assessment with the state but a lot of homeowners wanted that way to Le in simplest form base elevation is De the average from the property and I see there's a big variation in this slot I'm very familiar with it from the rear to the front what is the slab slab is at nine SL that matches the height in the front the slab in the lower level is at nine correct that matches the elevation right corner if you take a look where at about 9 ft in the front and then then actually pitches down um just a bunch of questions um 15 Steps to get into the first be three up and 12 the house um the driveway strips concrete and what's in between we have it as concrete with grass in between okay and you meet you're slightly under the approv coverage correct do that um you think it's a necessity from thep to the rear stairs walkway fromer than a parking car on the parkway strips to the rear stairs there's a landing there at the bottom of this St and then you have a 5 foot 6ot grass area it's it's safe to assume nobody wants to go concrete grass concrete stairs right we've talked about it we we decided that they is there a um concrete pad underneath the deck or there is not um shed stays goes goes um I noted and this is from Mr bian when he has a moment I think the perious favorite details incorrect on the plans I'm not positive but it might be I think the only place you have that of the driveway me in front of theage a little bit of cers there right y check that um my recollection and maybe I'm I'm looking at this wrong uh Mr Peterson is you can't have an open stairwell from the house into the first FL open stairwell from the basement we'll call it can't call it that from the slab into the house oh on the bottom floor yes uh if that's a zoning I don't know if that's a zoning thing I I thought that was a FEA thing no I'm not positive but i' show many is that is that a zoning issue no you can do that proba every house in B has a staircase that from the basement with the garage floor in the house you're Beach business there for 30 years since Sandy everything that looks like this there's no access at all except for one back door so what no stair inside the question I as I asked Mr Peterson is it a FEMA thing or it's a d it's a bmar thing that's one that I want to know if it's a FEMA related or it isn't the only so if we get a flood and it's elevation 16 the water goes up in in the house there SW through the window yes so here let me but let me tell you so that you know for next time but yes please um so there's not many of these that have come personally with myself in front of the board yet and this you know we can see we're heading this Direction with this new so we have an awful lot of these that we're working on in seagert and Manis squand which are also in flood zones the requirement the femur requirement in the building code requirement though is that any material that's below the flood so anything that's below that 10 has to be a water resistant material so you couldn't have sheet rock or uh anything like that you see an awful lot of homes and now let's go down to Long Beach Island where you see these homes are elevated and they actually park underneath that is well within the flood zone but you see within that space they have a stairs from inside that lower level up to the first floor so uh there's no building code requirement unless that was a zoning requirement there's nothing and this home is built on BL P yes it's going to be block uh spread footings concrete spreads um and again for my own clarification and clarification of the board you had made a comment earlier and this is a a FEA related question um are you allowed to just for our reference maybe not pertinent to this application per se but can you hang air handler condensers in a unfinished space if they are above BFA a good question what fena says is once you're above that flood elevation you can have you can have Outlets up high you know good amount of refrigerator on the ceiling or something like that but yes you can right and is that that two foot requirement probably Max of the roof just for clarification 47 is the elevation that's on the pl not the height correct so it's 47 ft and 10t is the base flood elevation that we have to measure you conforming with side yard setbacks y VAR variant and the building any consideration I don't know this is uh and I'm sorry if I'm taking up too much time but fig if I ask the questions maybe help way out a bit uh rotation of the garage in other words pull in right to all right you hate it or not yes I'm not an architect this we're an engineer for that we did look at some of those things it just doesn't make sense on this property and we looked at could we move the garage over and then pull in that way that takes up almost any usable space in the backyard as it is and it's it's not it's not a big space anyway and we've got the pool here which is a nice pool and it's existing and we didn't want to say well take that out replace the pool and all that so that's why we came up with a solution got and I was going there anyway so I'm going to bring it up um because you had brought it up but I'm going there with it why not consideration put the garage underneath the we had talked about that and the client was would rather have that space for storage then then for the garages underneath 1700 sareet of storage Mr pet a lot and also the nerdy architect as we looked at those things and the aesthetic of it it just didn't look like a like a home that belong understand this will be one of the first in this municipality to the best of my knowledge first of what with this type of elevation well we did see one um with sevenet in the crawl it will be is anybody else aware of another one that's got a 7 foot first that faces the lake there some houses down this lot is in Mr Peterson's defense is it's elevated significantly at the rear there's a three foot drop off from the rear of this property if you take a look you know you can see we're at about 6 feet and 7 feet at the front of the property line uh it's 10 ft in the back here and then and then goes up to 11 and more so it does have a pretty steep to I should say steep it does have a topography to do you think in all honesty there's going to be a retaining La required somewhere along this middle of this property we we have something here in the front we've already talked to Landmark about that fortunately the um once you get to the house you're at about 9 ft here and about 10 ft there a lot of that severity is in the front yard but that also helps the no F questions um I'm still confused about what I interrupted Tony with what you're not calling a basement but to me with six s foot ceilings that's not cross space that's a basement for seller whatever you want to call it even to me again what I said before you Ted said behead I've watched dozens and dozens since I worked in Point Pleasant Beach for all these years the houses getting raised after Sandy and there's no usable all over there that they they've got 10 or 12 or 13 stairs to their first floor and by and maybe this is Point Pleasant Beach's definition they're not even allowed to put a garage under there they're not allowed to have you've got windows in there um it's CL space it's open it's more open no most of them are not most of them are bricked up and they have a single door and maybe some lights in there but that that's what I'm asking uh to me uh will change slightly you've got a full flight of stairs going to that first floor plus the three from the sidewalk um you call you're asking for two feet my opinion would be drop the whole house and have a a true crawl space you're at what what you my definition of what you're doing is a basement it's usable in some fashion even though you're saying it's not if you had a 5 foot or a 4ot true crawl space then you only got Seven Stairs to the first floor you still got storage down there there uh but that proves to me it's not usable space you've still got the same storage space and you don't need the um variance for the total height that's basically that's that's what I have to say thank you okay um I have an issue with the heke um I live on eth Avenue and I've raised my house and I have seven steps and I'm at 12 ft the house next to me was just uh built new same thing 12T base flood elevation no true crawl space house across the street just built same thing uh a real craw space basically on the SL and I was curious you didn't mention the Aesthetics of the houses around this because most of the houses on to the left are probably 28 29 ft probably no more than 30 this is going to be 37 and it's going to to me while it's a beautiful house it looks like a house on stils okay cuz I think I have the most steps MH on that side of the street at 7 you're at 13 or 14 um and I know you want storage but you have to have flood vents in that space don't you you do correct right it's not shown on the diagram there's no cutout for flood vets oh there'll be flood V but what I'm saying is what kind of storage could you put in an area with flood vs oh it's it's not family airlo and things like that right but you have a garage with a loft area so you got storage there and um when I look at the rest of the block houses on both sides on that side of the street um I think it's out of place and I think it's going to look like a a monster house height wise compared to the other ones and the fact that your 1314 steps up makes it even more visible and uh I have no problem with the uh the garage the space but I do have a problem with the height and and I agree with Mr Luben if you took two feet of head space out of the crawl space you're at 35 and good to go and that's my opinion put pums in the whatever we're calling it you can't put a s pit or a pump because it's below because it's below okay no everyone hit hit the high Mark okay I have Sor could you tell me um what the measurement above sea level is is going to be the first floor living space uh to the first floor the height above sea level is the first floor is at 17 seven the first floor 1 17 above and you're saying a Bas flood elevations 10 then you got um that seems high that seems high I know Sandy came to about 13 and a half fet above sea level so 17t above sea level seems to be significantly higher than I believe the building code um you know I know you don't want to go too low but but at the same time you know there is such a thing as going too high right so it seems excessive go 7t above what you would be allowed to build without having to pay additional flood insurance right if that if that first floor were at we at um 12 right you have you'd be paying the base rate flood insurance I think I think between 10 and 12 your rates go slightly higher stand all right so call it 13 right you're still four feet that first floor is still four feet down from from where you're presenting here so it seems like the whole reason for the height is simply just to increase the head height in in that basement um and then um there was um I think you said the slab is at nine why can't the slab be at eight can't be it can't be the gra your is is this house seems very elevated anyway like it seems like it seems like to be quite High relative is very very well written but very right that's what I'm saying it's already on an elevated we love to take it that I mean if we thought we could we would but ordinance I believe and we went through it many times is very CLE well all right so so my question is would you guys consider um lowering taking a foot down in that basement crawl space and a foot off of the thir half St the top FL and you come CLI wees with the Cent don't need that I just had a secret message from a client here uh he guys no problem reducing that to six ft in the basement we'll take another foot off the roof so we comply with that um the six ft in the basement is actually 5 structure um like I said even I would bang my head on that uh but 6 feet is also well below any not that we had any intention to but also well below any building code that you could use in for anyway appreciate the movement we're in Board of questions right now so oh I'm sorry it's it's it's great to on the flag modifying things probably have to go back around for board questions but but um I I just want to sure that and I think if in fact that change is going to be made it's going to save two additional steps to get into the home which is huge I I I mean 14 13 14 steps I mean that has to be a concern of the homeowner in and out every day especially that you get older so so um I would like to just quickly go around given the fact that they're saying that they're not going to need a Hy variant any to modify plans are there any additional questions for the board members because see most of our questions were related to the question Chu sorry Mr Peterson just I'm sorry be here 10 feet 12 feet the minimum right 10 10 foot BF or pardon a Zone 10t 12 is the minimum is there a maximum no so if you go down to again these you know location you have uh we're working on one right now in SE this is a federal thing this isn't a a Township thing they're in a flood zone where the house would have to be out of the ground about four or five feet but there is a very small lot they have no room for parking so we're elevating it much more above that so they can get parking and also just uh soone know the way the insurances work is that the higher you are above the BF insurance is reduced first of all if you're at BF you get one rate if you're below it that's a bad rate one foot above is one thing two foot above is another thing and that at 3 feet is when it's the lowest rate it's most places say it's the lowest rate so whether you're 3 feet or 30t above so that's why you see in a lot of municipalities how you guys don't a lot of municipalities require that and a lot of homeowners just go for that and and in this particular inst for educating us I appreciate this sub you know subsequent through the application I really do and and at 3 Fe which would be the least amount of flood insurance requirement would this application have the opportunity to meet the height requirement and obtain first and second floors at 9 yes present that as an option to to say again Tony if it was if um at 3T above base flood elevation it might lead itself the opportunity for the first Flor and the second Flor to inad however you got there all right so um I I do for my question part and then we're going to have to open up for public questions um I'm certain that the variance relative to structure next to a pool is related to people jumping off the roof and into the pool I I mean I have zero doubt that that's the intent of the ordinance right um and I'm very concerned if I'm I'm not opposed to to saying yes to that but I'm very opposed to any liability that the town might might um have by granting such a VAR if in fact someone jumps off and into shallow end and gets paralyzed it's I'm not talking about friends or family I'm talking about people wandering in neighborhood who think it might be cool to jump off the garage roof right so um I just want to ensure that you know that that's not setting the town up for any liability by giving this applicant the ability to have a structure so close to the pool it just just has me more than a little concern and I don't know Mr would you hand in terms of iing that applicant is taking responsibility for any liability that's related to that proximity and it not become something that the town has any liability that the applicant should absolve the town of any liability associated with that choice put on yeah I understand but I don't know if that hold yeah I mean I think what what you're saying is it's a point is uh that if if the application is approved that your concern would be noted and that perhaps as a condition you're saying that the applicants and successors hold the burrow and the zoning board and their agents Representatives Etc harmless from and against any all CES and liabilities associated with that variance Grant I think that's what yes Tim um how do you feel about that okay okay so we the board question section open up for public questions or public comments regarding this application now would be the time to come public ra your hands stand up say hey oh we do have one y we do I think we know this guy all right so e 802 C Street do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the exion providing will be the truth best your knowledge to help you guys and if I get to say one disclosure about my friend Phil so Mr chairman you're absolutely right anytime uh the law does not penalize you all from volunteering your services to the betterment of our great burrow uh and you don't lose or forfeit your rights however the only thing that I would say is if Mr and I don't know if Mr G is going to speak in favor it or speak against it or whatever and I think the only thing that we need to do and we've said this before is we can't take uh Phil's comments any more serious or less serious um than any other member of the public thank you they don't take me serious any just a couple thoughts uh there's very little communication between neighbors um and I do have an issue with some part some of the Landscaping of his yard there's a what I would call a weed that has grown up behind his pool that if he's doing landscaping I would ask if he could maybe remove that it leans over top of my garage and I can can't keep the gutters clean and also he's got some communication wires that are roughly a clip off the roof of my garage which are makes it difficult to if I I'm cleaning the gutters or going up and over my garage roof you could get problem okay that and the other thing I was I was listening is conversation going on hold let's just get clarity on that because if that gets baked into the resolution I want to make sure that they're clear about what what what the expectation is um I believe we heard testimony that are going to be run on ground so the communication wire you're that you're referring to wouldn't that be Remedy by the utilities being run under ground these wires come off between the poles there's a poles and wires that go down the property line on the south side of our properties and then they come off the pole they off the wires between the two poles and they they SK across the roof of my garage right when they go underground wouldn't that then they agreed to do that so well I me to the extent obviously to the exent I don't even know if these are wires but to the that they arey to cooperate with you Veron whoever it is and they should be on your roof and they go through they go through the trees in the back of my property I can't trim them yes I think Mr sometimes that there are certain sections this municipality where cable and electric between the property lines iven by that person myself I don't know if there's Electric in front of this house you know just noted that it's most likely that the electric and the cable are going to come the only other thing I was listening to is this issue with the garage in the back the west side bay of the garage is not accessible really with a car there's only 10 ft between the garage and that staircase I mean I've driven cars in body shops and stuff where you have to through real tight spots I don't see anybody be able to navigate that so we're approving or we not me anym you guys would be approving a garage that can't be used for the storage of automobil which is excl purpose of a garage so he really needs to have a one day garage there not a two the I understand that but the part of the the rules of the Town a garage is used for the storage of automobiles exclusively and you'll be approving a garage which is not knowingly with okay with it I understand but you realize that you're approving a garage that's not being used by storage of own I mean to the extent that's not the side that's encroaching on the pool is it the whole thing is the back is the back of it is not not not the not the second not the second Bay the part that's approaching on the pool is the Southside the second Bay is the West the south side but it is storing car we he testimony that he is going to use could use car in that one so it's a matter of it's a matter I guess of is full of bicycles no no no there's two Bay though right so I'm not I'm not like I'm just trying to hear this out I'm trying to think this lot like worse you could have a garage that's really big I mean people in town have them one and a half Bays you only get one car in there the other half Bay is you're only getting one car yeah if you don't count the other side of that as a parking spot and as long as it's not trigger I don't think it matters I I think if you were counting that as a legitimate parking spot that would be a different story that that you can't actually get so the question I mean are we in excess of building cover then if that's only one that's only county has one parking spot and for parking variance whether it's a a solid wall matter make sure scar me a little bit like we it's still a garage you can still pull a car one car it doesn't have to be just because you have two B doesn't me you have to be a p two count car just for clarity I'm not arguing against the garage no I get it but I'm just saying I think you might be approving something that we're not want no it's good you you made it's good that out I don't think anyone caught the you could drive car there but I think it's a material because it's not going to trigger parking variants anyway plus if you were driving a car there that becomes a wider driveway and changes imp not counting a parking spot so it's kind of additionally I'd like to say that the plan that Mr Peterson Drew up is much better looking than the house that currently exists there I think that's cred to his skills it it's a beautiful house it's okay so with that uh any more comments from the public see none we're going to close the public session and I think we comments com com as what we just did we questions and comments so that Mr Kennedy um if you could please sure if the application is going to be approved some of the conditions that we noted are our standard compliance in all the promises commitments and representations that uh the applicants team made tonight compliance with any affordable housing rules regulations contributions that the ordinances require uh Tim we usually have a 24mon time frame that for which building permits need to be secured after the adoption of the resolution uh grain graining and drain Det to be reviewed and approved by the burough engineer compliance with all applicable FEMA regulations um now I had here uh compliance about 37 ft not 38 ft but I guess that becomes moot because we're making height comping correct correct correct and uh obtaining any necessary uh demolition permits and um see uh comp with the have story requ uh the ground floor not to be used as living space or habital space in accordance with all those prevailing regulations obviously code compant pool fence um we usually have a requirement that you perpetually maintain Landscaping uh see um let's see no bath in the garage garage not there's living space um string all run off on site and Stor Water Management details to be reviewed and approved by the bur engineer um and uh the possibility of installing underground range system for storm purposes if recomended by the bur engineer let's see comply Tim I think or Tom is there he sometimes have a new construction file some type of D restriction saying we're not going to use the level for um living purposes we we do do that applies and let's see um now we're going to have I wrote here a possibility of taking one foot off the top floor but we'll come back to that um obtaining all and necessary or all and any and all necessary outside approvals and we usually have a caveat that if the nature of the application or the nature of relief materially ch changes as a result of those outside approvals we need to come back here um let's see we it's question about the walkway strips and thear stairs is that still the question look I mean the bottom line is I think we can all recognize that 49.2% there a high likelihood that with the introduction some stepping stones and increasing the concrete walkways it's going to trigger VAR it's going to trigger okay so let's I can't see having access to care basement without having some type of a or something there you know what I mean well you know I'm not opposed to I'm not opposed I'm not opposed to approving you know a 51 or 52% coverage issue you get the garage right so I think that makes a valid comment the reason that we're good I'm good with a garage is that not having any kind of building coverage a larger than's needed what I'm saying is I'd rather see something on i' rather 499 can't go over you know absolutely the only thing I'll comment is we have two more applications this application end this application is ending at 8 so if we don't come to a vote by 8:00 p.m. we're going to put you after applicate there's no doubt about that so make all the comments you want no we will comply with the building coverage requirement and we'll comply with impervious and we're going to save some space here at the front step so if we had a couple of Stepping Stones here you know that might be a little 3 foot by three foot pad we we will comply okay um okay and then just continuing uh we had um see the shed to be eliminated um and I think we wanted Tim confirming the uh the paper the previous paper details corre we had the um Dr the whole house will come back to that one in a moment uh flood lens being put on the plans and then uh so what is it we're going to lower one lower the crawl space by one foot lower the uh top half Story by one foot correct so as to comply and then um we're going to um now you also suggested something about if it was at 3T above BF and but that sort of gu long they go to 35 how how they get there got and then we have the whole harmless provision and uh we talked about which Mr milon agreed and we'll just have that as a separate Standalone document or sign on the bottom part of the resolution um the applicant Works in in a good faith to remove the weeds over the uh garage of uh neighbor Phil Greg also we're going to in good faith have the applicant uh either arrange for or contact the uh companies uh so have those uh communication wires um basically removed from Phil's garage or encroachment and again that whole issue may be resolved Mr chairman with the placement of utilities underground but to the extent it's not the exent they are the app responsibility that and that was it Tim you heard those those conditions that's perfectly okay so with that is anyone want to make a motion to approve this application make motion yes I appreciate the applicants desire yes thank you thanks everyone we um we go to the smaller yes sorry sorry [Music] not changing so side of the building because otherwise there's no way to get that's increas it's like 90 or 100 ft of addition this is the of Brian and Linda GFF 405 15th Avenue uh for the third time tonight Ted you are the B zoning officer and construction official do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the extent you provide any will be the truth the best knowledge to help you guys okay and is there anyone here who had any questions or comments or concerns regarding the sufficiency of the notice days okay uh the board secretary and I review the notice and found to be in order so would be my humble opinion we a jurisdiction to proceed we will Mark into the record what we as a board have before us a one is a development application package dated December 8th 2023 and A2 is the application checklist A3 is the minor land use uh zoning per for with attachment and that's dated December 8 2023 December 11 2023 and A4 is the architectural uh PL prepared bychenko architect and that's dated December 8th 2023 consisting of three sheets that right all right so good evening you could uh uh say your name and we'll swear you Inn my name is R okay Paul okay gentlemen if you could Raise Your Right arms do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide would be the truth the best you knowledge to help you that okay and so let the record both the gentlemen have been sworn and Mr alenko you're testifying in Your Capacity as a licensed architect uh with all LIC and certifications current and up to date correct that's correct okay and then Mr Gaff I just to get the ball rolling here with regards to the 405 15 property you're the owner of that property yes I am wife okay and how long have you owned it Rob we in July 2023 okay and my note suggested that there's a um uh single I'm sorry there's a two there now correct yes two okay and um so let me just get some record uh with regard to the existing duplex is an up and down unit or side by side up and down up and down and is it Unit A and B or one and two or you know I don't know okay you got it up and down we got it so with regard to the uh up stairs unit how many bedrooms two two and how many bathrooms one and is that upstairs unit occupied no okay and now with regard to the downstairs unit how many bedrooms two and how many bathrooms one and is that occupied okay so um welcome and why don't you tell the board what it is you're looking to do go ahead um my wife and I would like to uh plan on making this our permanent residence um and moving in and retiring here so going to be residents um we'd like to turn the existing house into a one family um and add an additional 34 to we like to add a pached two-car garage uh with a small apartment above it um my wife's parents getting older now in and we have um do have two grown children my daughter uh is married and living in Virginia we said her grandchild we have a son who's living in Florida um and I don't know if the family keeps have more and more kids I'm just looking to one family house that we can enjoy thank all right that being said the G engaged us to create a single family home from the existing uh two uh two family duplex uh that exist there now and but their desire is obviously to retain the second the second residence and what our proposal is this evening is to create a two-car garage um with a u a second level uh apartment a one-bedroom uh apartment living unit with a small kitchen a bath um and a living living dining area that'll be accessed by a staircase um on the um on the west side of the property we are seeking variances for the two family residents uh building coverage uh we're opposing 35% versus the 30% required although I have to add a caveat and that is that if you notice from our site plan we have U part of the uh Neighbors Cottage um occupying some of our property in the amount of about 50 square ft and also um the gaing have told me U recently that our orig proposal shows a shed on the rear of the property that shed is being removed it's G it's it's G already okay F and I'm sorry what the variances you need were building coverage uh building coverage yes we're propos or proposing 35% with 30% is required U given the fact that there's about 50 U 50 square ft of the neighbor's um Cottage on our property and removal of that shed at 24 Square ft it reduces that um that amount by a% and a half which would basically result result in 33 and half% of building coverage the side yard also is uh 5 ft as required and uh we have a pre-existing condition of 3 ft to the Westerly side and uh the accessory building which I addressed now is being removed entirely up for the accessory building is being uh removed um however the building Hep for our proposal I originally had had proposed 23 ft we reduced that down to 22 ft if I change the configuration of the roof from a gable roof to a to a hip roof uh with a flatten section on top so our proposal would be to request 22t variant uh beyond the 18t that the township requires sorry that discussing there the garage height by2 pardon me you asking for 4 foot height variance for the garage correct addition to exist apartment any other variances Associated besides Mr I just when they were saying that the um the neighbor's Cottage is on their property Kevin I wasn't suggesting that we don't count it I was just saying as a caveat that part of our building coverage is due to a neighbor I to say I think count got thank our proposal consist of a 2 and 1 half story uh structure with a large family area a dining area we've added a vestibule to the rear of the property for Access and a kitchen a half bath and a utility area on the first level we're proposing three bedrooms on the second level with two baths a closet and on the third level we're proposing a small Loft area and then a third sleeping quarters which basically would be designed as um fire resistant 5 a construction in accord with the codes there's also a bath on on that level a shower bath on that level the garage apartment very simply is a small living area dining area kitchenet a utility area washer dryer and a singular bedroom with a closet and the garage is proposed is just a two-car garage for storage and we have access by a staircase on the uh on the easterly side um I'm not known for being brief but I'm end it there open questions if you have okay so we'll start fourth questions we'll start down on this side with mral oh I'm sorry this is this is an old plan ski I apologize I don't how this s in but there there is a full bath proposed on that level where would it go in the laundry room it would it was relocated to take next to the laundry area what material are you using for the drive uh we are if if anyone has seen the property is a large by two minut area of the existing driveway that entire driveway is going to be removed and replaced with perious papers for cover we are um we are conforming within uh within the uh 55% Z2 oh I got uh they me okay I have no issue with the plan other than the use of an apartment Garage in the back um and I know you have uh a duplex now over we're adding to kind of an overtaxed uh area having the garage with living space in the garage you have four bedrooms and a very large LOF area that looks like it's about 450 500 square ft so I I have no problem with the main house I have a problem with the use of the garage with an apartment that's so so we we'll continue this try because we've kind of been combining our questions and comments together so we'll just continue to do that so uh I agree 100% I I think the house uh compared to what's there now that looks gorgeous um to put a two car garage back there uh it's tight on that lot but I have no problem with that um I appreciate very much giving up the two family house and making it one but you're asking to retain but that's not what's happening um you're removing one and adding another I I don't believe in my opinion you can retain that two family use by building it into a separate building uh as I understand current code in our town um rear Apartments full bathrooms are just not allowed unless they've been there for how many years and that's I'm saying uh new construction is not no new construction of a rear house rear apartment that's my okay and I'm GNA I I typically go last but I'll just I'm just going to tie on because for continuity sake it makes sense um you're you're you're looking to expand and continue a pre-existing non-conformance non-conforming use if you were to try to do that by renovating the front house into a two family that's an easier ask you know I'm not saying it would necessarily be approved but it's an easier ask but starting with a new structure and say I can take the two family and move there the two family is not conforming as it is it's not a two family zone so you know it's going to be a stretch to try to get approval to get a garage apart a brand new garage apartment built in this town I mean that's just the truth of the matter so given that would you be would you consider to accommodate the needs of your family and that you described um looking at enlarging the primary house maybe getting a coverage variance and eliminate the uh G Department because that would be something the board I think would be much more favorable towards as opposed to what you're seeking at at the moment so because it seems like you know your lock coverage doesn't seem to be an issue so if you need a bigger front house to accommodate your aging parents or something like that maybe you could work with the front housee plans and abandon the build a garage apart I guess my question is important to me um it's the existing house is the existing house right so I could just put it back together the way it is correct sure yeah okay and then can I still if I didn't have an apartment on the garage I can add a garage on the apartment I mean I I mean I can add a garage on Prop to come back here well maybe not I mean if that garage triggers answer would be yes I don't I wouldn't say that the garage that you'd seek to build would necessarily Trier Vance but if it does you'd be back if not it would simply be a per constru depart back expansion non use because because of the two family designation okay so yes I'm sorry you just got your answer for you I was wrong um yes you would have to come back because even Building a garage because you have an existing non-conforming would result in you coming back but asking for a garage is a whole heal lot different than asking for a garage apartment to be constructed is it the board's suggestion oration that we let the board members continue with your questions and comments and then you could maybe judge that for yourself by what everyone has said with what's on their minds if they choose to let you know sometimes people don't necessar you're you're allowed of 440 ft for a two-car garage which doesn't count to what your building covers is the calculations for the rear auxiliary structure included in the in your calculations did you apply the 440 towards building Cod no you did not no okay so um because there's an auxiliary potential for a potential for because you're asking for an apartment above a garage those CC should be included towards lock coverage building coverage and all those cover so with that being said you don't get the pre pass on 440 is what what I'd have to if I was to vote on it I would have to have those calculations to be able to do that is there a requirement for uh separate from does an auxiliary structure have to be a certain distance from the main structure in other words we need distance potentially from the corner of the hypothetical rear garage to the main structure that's what I think it is you're you're 10 more than 10t away right um6 and I heard 576 for the total square foot but he's not he's not taking credit any we that to in you don't get thee you don't get and then I just overheard um impervious or impervious pavers would be the driver right and then do you have a designated parking area for rear par is there a designated parking area where the tenant would go in and out and have erress in and out of the property without inconveniencing single we have we have provided in our driveway the length of the driveway and and the garage itself for a parking station which is that's for the house okay can the tenant get out of the driveway yes 12 yes what that thank you um the the uh main structure is it the getting knocked down is the foundation getting knocked down as well no Foundation remaining yeah it's already been cuted actually I'm sorry it's cut it it's cut we're taking the um two that's already there when we first bought it we thought was covered in mold which we opened it all up it wasn't so we got lucky with that um so we wanted to see what we were dealing with and you know um so anyway we have this two family we're not you know talked to a bunch of Builders about knocking it down or um keeping it and with the cost of material and everything right now just so much there's nothing wrong with the foundation there's nothing wrong um posing you know there's nothing wrong with the structure so why was all that material I I agree with you I just was about my question was really about the threefoot setback so if you were if you were knocking it down would be asking you to move it over yeah we just wanted to got it and then like I said um we one family and have the apartment on the other side but now if I came through the apartment I just may want to just say maybe re put the thing back together and sell it move on I'm struggling with with the with the uh the apartment over the garage it would not be something that I yeah I'm same line of thinking so I guess my question is like structure um and since this is common as well would you be willing to reduce the height of the garage 18t remove the apartment above it and go that rout because I mean I think the front house I like and the garage I don't think there's an issue having a garage there I don't like the apartment and I don't like the extra six feet so if you move it down to 18 feet so it complies with a garage and single family home in the front here that could be done obviously we have to evaluate what our proposal is I mean that's my thought process so on that we still need see two carage without the apartment that's what I saying that I think and low you lower it to 18t instead of 22 there's a question about the computation associated with theage it's 576 some which which wasn't count against coverage have yeah no I'm just saying if they come back and they want to do that I'm more inclined to vote for if that I don't think that you know you're talking about the lot coverage there it's only going to include theck coverage not hurt it and by including that right now he said he he he used the worst case scenario and didn't include that benefit no he did not no he did you said he included that right you said no I did you took the benefit you took the you took the benefit of oh you did okay so ler so that's my flavor end it depends it makes it betterle my question would be if you do it the way they're seeming to lean are you going to put it back together so you well that's what I I need to figure out cu I had an idea what I wanted to do it's going to be a lot of money to do what I want to do and I just wanted to figure that all out now and I may say you know what I mean nothing I mean I I guess I can just put the house back together I don't need any approval to do any of that right I mean I don't have to put a garage or not to do anything just put the house back together and sell it well hold on I don't want you to walk away with that comment without first asking Mr bian if since it's already got and the it's a two family right previously that would simply be getting permits issued as opposed to expansion okay and expansion would mean um going wider on on you can't go up you can't go out you as he stays the four wall as long as he stays within the four walls he could reconfigure the internal of the two apartments in in pretty I mean I don't want to say any but to some degree there's no there would be no issue with applying for that or having to get any Varian associate with renovating the existing two family confirmed it has not been demolished you said no no the inside has right right right so it sounds like renovation within the guidelines of the construction code result in you just having to request permits if in fact you submitted drawings and and the construction Department and all a sudden oh that looks like an expansion of an okay you hear it at the moment right and you could change your plans then in fact you didn't want to come back for variance but they would let you know based on you submit for for building per whether or not it triggers a variance and and we just heard more than likely if you're not expanding adding additions or raising or going or doing anything on the outside it sounds like you I could do that just understand permitting and then just for record keeping purp that would apply just to the home but if there's a garage element even apartment because it's Z only one that what about the size of the garage is it 440 or can they keep the 576 well the only difference 440 they give you an exception for building coverage not lot coverage if you you exceed that now you have to apply all so but it's still an expansion of a nonconforming use so he needs an what a 440 or a 5 550 whatever Mr chairman I ask a question yeah sure abely are we done going through I'm sorry ahead would you mind if we just finish so you have one more question um I forgot no if he puts it back together as a single family he can put the garage there without any variances or anything correct if you put it back together as a duplex and you have you can't put the garage or the driveway well that change any of that stuff you can only do the main structure this a an abundance of of PTY that's good that's good you point that out you understand right if you made to one family you can still do noing the size of it's it can be larger as long as you meet the lot building coverage you can have up to a three car garage it's got to meet the building coverage the only thing I would say is that before you just throw it out in way go and sell it fantastic Sugg kill to have a garage I don't um but I have a beautiful house so if you can have a beautiful house if you expand it start from scratch expand it and still be able to put a garage or just turn into one what you have have okay my question basically and since we've all familiar with the house we're desperate to change the exterior of the house um that um the Cosmetics are sorely lacking what my question is what towards this position might be if we were to come back and propose incorpor that one bedroom second apartment into the main structure as it is now right now it's a two-bedroom if we propose a one-bedroom and reduce that in terms of concept and just the uh the two car garage in the rear of the property I know I know be I I would defer on that only because I think we just said earlier you could renovate both whether it's it's one and a half is considered one one apartment and half is considered one apartment it's still a two family so I think the answer to your question is it doesn't necessarily mean the first floor is one family the second floor is one family so if you want to shop your two family into a different allocation I think you know subject to reviewing the plans and approval it doesn't sound like you'd be stopped from doing that that that there's nothing to stop you from doing but again the devil's always in the details a renovation right and that's what I said you know if it triggers expansion then my comment on that because the house that you done is far Improvement for the street um you want to apartment a mother-in-law type of apartment exactly um instead of keep get get rid of get rid of the two families make that another bedroom suite then it's not a two family home you can give her you you're not renting it you can give her a door a bedroom and even a b in a bathroom as part of an expansion of the home and then it's no longer a um a non-conforming the board would have to approve doing that okay but I think that's the way you know once once you put a solid wall up and make it a two family home that's what the opposition is so if there's a a door you know it's an older parent is what you're saying to us wouldn't it be better to have access one yes one okay sir what variances you can expand the non-conforming use your required variances you can do that just be able to understand my head here so um Ian obviously we all figured it out that I'm just going to put the house back together and sell it I don't need to do anything just got to can build an apartment and get my apartment it's not good um if I want to make this house and put that house up the way I got proposed here um and put a two-part garage I have to get a variance for the garage no it's expansion if you're going to keep the two family in the front anything you do is going to be anything you do outside of the four walls is going to be considered expansion of nonconform use so the garage would have to come back for expanding your non-conforming you're heading your garage right if it's a single family you're not expanding you're not you're not conforming now you go to single family you're considered conforming so do the house propos house single family single family and I have a two bar garage right then I have to get for the garage correct if it has no apartment no not if it's under okay well I'm just trying to understand this I two car garage and the single family house without the apartment and I wanted to keep it at the proposed garage size without the apartment I can't do not 22 ft 18t High yes okay at 18 ft on on S but if I want to go with 25 25 inste 20 by 20 for the moov side garage these These are architectural questions I think to simplified sir to expedite well that's what's on the point now if you have a single family res then and you were proposing a garage you would still need a variance for setbacks okay and you would be in compliance if it was only 18 ft if you wanted to do a two family structure which you had a pre-existing nonconforming use with your application today you're going to need variances the reason that in my opinion we cannot vote on it is because the square footage building coverage lot coverage for the garage be app because you don't get a credit in those areas for the actual garage apartment I don't know if that was complicated you are allowed to expand upon a non conforming use with variances so to this gentleman's point if you wanted to decrease and put a small uh rental unit if you took it from a four bedroom and kept it a four bedroom and made the rental of and your footprint I personally would not have a problem with that you understand on the not on the existing structure still would need variances did you repeat that I didn't if you take the existing nonconformity that you have right now and you said you take it and you have you have two bedrooms up two bedrooms down right if you said three bedrooms up one bedroom down and the one bedroom is your rental I personally don't have an issue in that because you're creating a more predominant single family occupancy still requires variances I can't speak towards the flavor of the rest of the board but with variances you can uh potentially increase uh you know a non-conforming use you do see it but the as would always say is the positive criteria significantly out way to negative the last thing I going to say is if you I'm not opposed maybe Mr Ross might be inance is that if you said right now uh you want to switch to getting a two-car garage approved right now and making whether it's a single family or secondary or multif family we can skip right into that with the chair's approval do you follow if you said I want I I want to foro the re what's that [Music] 75 25 what typ of chairman do you want take a break or I was say okay so we just I I appreciate the sidebars but if we're going to do that if you're going to need time we're going to take a break and give you the time or we got to get back in session I would just like to ask if I we figure this out here keep the single family house exactly like we're proposing and go for the two-part garage with no apartment with the 18 foot ceiling at the size of the garage we're talking 18 18t roof so are then what are we triggering what variances would we be triggering then stay going to keep it and renov ex into a single family house are there any variances being triggered building what's the building coverage on that we have 35 35% down yeah we're we're 35 30 is required okay so the answer is yes you can do that we just would need to recap you would need to break or we could bring you back after the next application if you recalculated but we have to know what the um if it's only the building coverage variance that we wind up getting Mr pardon me but you already have those calculations if we're eliminating the apartment we're taking credit for the 440 Square ft on the two bed on the two car garage and way your calculations are correct before you it's not 440 it's 576 yes I counted I counted the difference between 440 and 576 176 that's not the way it works if you go over 440 garage count it's in the ordance five and Mr chairman what I would just say and I say this respectfully to the applicant and and I mean obviously they spent a lot of time and money to come here and uh I know we're saying a lot of things and you're picking up on a lot of them but a lot of them are abstract and it's very very my experience is very very very hard to sort of design a house and and combine elements just right here on the and so what I would encourage I mean I know everyone wants to maybe proceed with this if we can but sometimes in the light of day it's easier to to design things than just doing on the flag but that just I think at this stage a change from what was proposed we would just get more comfortable with with you coming back calulations for us to say the Department's gone imagine an 18t not a 22t building like you're I I think that there's significant enough change you guys should rethink about it it sounds to me like if they go down to single family and wanted wanted if they abandon the two family use and want to build that just building com back but if they agree to do that tonight and we have an accurate building lot coverage could the decision be made tonight there any reason why we wouldn't I I guess we as the bo if there's a discomfort doing that but if they make it single family as is and put her in a gage as is just noage apartment but would you want to know if that single family home is going to be upstairs down I would be that [Music] proposal if that was a clean if that's what they came in with to begin with 10 minutes right I a lot of noding so I think if we do calculations we're adding 10% to building coverage so we would be requesting at 45% uh building coverage and so we've done this in the past when we've made on Supply changes we have between now and next meeting in May to approve your resolution we will make our approval contingent on the resolution getting the actual tesi numbers not I appreciate you doing it right now giv us a rough idea but youve got put something in hard copy writing exactly what the new calculations are going to be prior to us giving final approv so we may approve the application based on what you're telling us right now but the town has nothing from you submitted as to what the actual numbers are I that 10 in April right and then and then if if we don't have it we won't approve the final resolution at the next meeting or whenever whenever that comes up for and I was just reminded and I think we finished with the board comments and questions um public comments questions is anyone here to speak about this application raise your hand stand up say hey okay I see I see someone I do see someone okay hello if you could just state your name and address please tun t 4315 good evening do uh welcome do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the extent you provide any will be the truth the best your knowledge to help you out I do thank you my concern is what you all addressed here tonight regarding an apartment in the backyard I'm sure belmore's vision is not to further put more backyard apartments or back houses so that was my concern the structure of the garage was my concerned as well it appeared to be four or 5 ft above the restricted 18t restriction that was my concern so uh I love the idea of a single dwelling next to me and it's a beautiful drawing and uh it's just that I don't think Belmore needs to go in the direction of more back houses in the B appreciate your comments thank you very much appreciate you coming tonight okay we'll close the anyone else from the public those a public uh question comment Mr chairman if I could just say one other thing as a standing offer however you want to use this uh if you approve the applications I subject to those conditions that would be one option or if you wanted to uh you could say come back and submit the plans and direct me to have a resolution prepared at the next meeting anyway because if you got an approval tonight your resolution was not adopted until the next meeting so if you wanted to do it that way I'm just throwing that as as a if that's acceptable to the board if it's not we don't have are say hold off on voting I mean if you wanted to say hold off and have them submit the revised plans and then approve it at the next time and I would have the resolution completed um but if you all want to proceed tonight that that's fine too I'm just that after there's an option doesn't matter to you no we seem to we consensus among board members to to let's go and vote tonight I think there's been enough movement here and bring this much much closer into compliance that this becomes a very simple application the only complexity of it is because of the modifications made um our potential approval of this tonight is going to be very contingent on ensuring that the burrow receives all of the adequate and and correct calculations so meeting if the resolution's ready um and if not we're going toold or resend that approval because um we're going based on a lot of veral commitments right now and we have nothing um to other than Mr Kenny's notes to memorialize the things that you guys are saying you're committing to right now so um you know we really like to see that become more solid but I'm going take the vote on it tonight based on changes we can provide the Revis drawing for the garage showing the 18 um and calculations for building right and and should given the loss of the garage requirement you wanted to reconfigure any of the front design I mean it's something to consider as well as long as it's not going to be anything that's going to be radical you know you know it's just may affect what thinking about the before all right so that um Mr Ken um I know there might be a lot to summarize so um basically we are saying that if the application would be approved it would be subject to a number of conditions the easy standard on comp tonight uh 24 month time frame for which building permit secured uh grading drainage details to be reviewed and approved by the fal engineer if necessary obtaining any necessary outside approvals and what we're going to do is we're going to have um an abandonment a knowing and Perpetual abandonment of that non-conforming use with regard to duplex in favor of a single family home um and let's see uh the garage height will be reduced to comply some of the things I us and let's see the building coverage calculation we're going to clarify the um large bous driveway is going to be removed and replaced with perious papers that's still on the table right um and let's see we're going to um all right so here's where we get to the good stuff we're going to um basically uh revise the plan so as to confirm that the dlex will be abandon in favor of a single family home uh we are going to uh eliminate the apartment in the proposed garage uh you're going to revise the plans to include a two-car garage that will have a compliant height and Ted the applicant abandons uh the uh duplex use we need you usually like some typ of ctif letter in the file right yeah initially acknowledging that and Mr chairman I'm assuming what you're saying is we are going to approve a building coverage variance not to exceed 45% depending on what the calculations come and knowing that it's the lowest possible amount it's not that that they have I mean I think we need to have a number in there um and also I think Mr will have to what that number and then validated um for us prior to using the resolution and now I thought you said 45% did I hear that yes but I I could provide that information in the beginning of the week to April so you have so it'll be the the lowest amount possible but for our vote give or take a couple of percent we're not going to hear 45 and then it's going to be 55 or 60 for 70 years yeah it's just it's comfortable here take 10% it's so those are the conditions all right very good anyone would like to make a motion to approve this modified application I'll make that motion and by the way contingent on um us um hearing the final uh revised figures okay second Mr yes yes thank you very luck your brother picture don't trip on my here Mr oal here Mr yes here here okay Mr chairman this is the application Roberts spray 106 4th Avenue um just a couple quick preliminary procedure is there anyone here that any questions or comments or concerns regarding the sufficiency of the notice they received don't see anybody uh let the record reflect the board secretary and I reviewed the notice and found everything to be in order so it be my opinion that we have jurisdiction to to proceed tonight and we also uh will swear in for the fourth and final time tonight our friend Ed bian Zing officer and construction official head do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the extent you provideing will be the truth the best your knowledge to help you guys okay and what we'll mark into the record have before us A1 is the development application package as dated January 29th 2024 and A2 is the minor land use zoning permit uh with attachment and that's dated October 14 2023 October 24th 2023 and let's see A3 is the uh architectural Flor plans and elevations prepared by N2 architecture and that's dated October 11th 2023 last revised October 27 2023 I think that's consisting of two pages and then this is John Jackson the applicants attorney and Mr Jackson I know you handed out this document uh I'm going to mark this is A4 can you just for the recordid what 84 is thank you Mr Kennedy uh the 84 is um the printed version of the PowerPoint that I have it mainly consists of the documents that are already on file a couple pictures including Google Earth um so that when I go through the presentation the slides around the board will be able to follow with and then we're going to mark this document as A5 you just handed out yes that that is a slight revision uh showing a slightly different configuration that's based on um our conversations that we've had um my conversations I've had with you as well as with Mr biani the code enforc Jing officer to try to address some of the concerns that we know that the board has regarding these de catch units so let's mark this as A5 and this is a revised architectural plan prepared by N2 architecture a floor plan and it's dated October 11th 2023 and this A5 uh supersedes what we marked as A3 correct yes okay all right so thank you and uh thank you for waiting um and good evening thank you um May I proceed Mr chairman sure for the record John Jackson uh John Jackson law offices and um I represent Robert and Lisa Greg my offices are in uh LA with the men one mailing address Mr his office Craigs have had their house here inmore for many years um so this has been a little bit of a evolving process Mr nut was involved with the sprays with uh redoing their house um they have a uh they have five children uh who are growing um they're young adults now mainly and are just about finished growing up they'll be coming back with grandchildren Etc and then Mrs spr has a father who's getting up in years and when he comes and stays with them they would like him to have basically a bedroom um that that would be available to give him some privacy and also when the kids come home Etc so as as we evaluated this case our initial thought was that we would just seek uh Renovations that would um allow the garage apartment not exactly an apartment um to allow this is the original configuration that we had that would have a a bed area bathrooms and then refrigerator little stove area uh that would and we didn't seek to use it as an apartment when I discussed this case with Mr Kennedy he said well and I said to him well don't worry we're not going to rent it he said well and April told me this as well the board has has been once bit Twice Shy with the Murray case where there was a lawsuit over a condition restricting rental uh garage ofarts and they said the board is very familiar with that case and um it's probably not going to work so we our team huddled and we came up with this concept and I'll I'll explain you know what the difference is Mr spray works from home so this area that would be attached to the garage would be kind of a flex space where their father-in-law could stay there to sleep if he can just like a pat bedroom um from the main house um so in speaking with Mr if I'm saying your name correctly he said to me well you know you're showing a kitchen uh or a refrigerator in a sink it's very hard to enforce that that becomes an apartment because I said to him we're not asking for an apartment and he said well as far as I'm concerned if there's cooking facilities it's an department so we evolved our plan and our our thought was that we would propose uh as a condition no sink or you know no kitchenet sink and we put a desk there we still have room for a bed etc this way this portion of the garage could not be rented uh because you could never get a CO because it would not have a kitchen and we're not seeking a deed restriction um because you know the Murray Pace said that that could be problematic uh family members could stay there so we thought if we configured it in this way and that was a condition of approval that it could be prevented from being a rental so that that's just how I I I you know set the stage here and I I just want to address one thing your ordinance does allow as a conditionally permitted use what is referred to as an accessory dwelling conditional a conditional use goes to the planning board when you meet all the conditions when you don't meet all the conditions which we don't you go to the board of adjustment and you are required to get one of the enumerated uh D variances the standard of proof is a little lower than on other D variances because the use is permitted I'll be it conditionally I know this sounds like a a lot of legal mumbo jumbo but the important thing I would submit is that felmore does not outright prohibit detached structures in in a garage now you certainly have the authority and it's certainly a burden proof that we have to show when we don't meet the conditions that it still makes sense and I'm not saying oh I'm entitled to have this but what I'm saying is this is not a prohibited use and the the the issue we have here is that we don't meet the conditions so what I would like to point out uh before Mr nut comes up and speaks um is some some of the things that I'd ask you to keep in mind as we go through this application so in in our presentation the first thing is there's a little bit of a uniqueness to this property in that there's a road that backs up to the detach garages it's not like a detach garage that backs up to somebody else's backyard where it's hidden from VI where code enforcement really has no ability to know what's going on there where the activity and what happens in that structure is right on top of your neighbor's backyard where they might be in their pool or might be in their backyard and and it's an intensity of use so we have this natural and somewhat unique uh situation it's not unique on our block but it's Unique throughout the the most of the community so it it's right on the back so when Mr biani said to me you know from code enforcement standpoint we really don't know what's going on on the backyard people can do whatever they want and it's really a problem of enforcement for us in this instance we're on a road it's right out in the open we also have a unique situation in that we are across the street directly across from a multif family unit so this is an area that has uh an intensity it's it's it's not like uh you know a conventional neighborhood where it's like tucked back it's it's you know down close to the beach I could go on Google Earth I'm sure everyone knows where this is but I happen to have it on Google Earth there it is as well you know we're we're we're close to a very busy place the the you know the the center of activity in the burrow and uh we think that makes it unique so we're not going to be disturbing our neighbors we have two of our neighbors here tonight who I believe have come out to support the application uh when we get to the uh to that important point in the proceedings so with those things in mind now you know there um and Mr chairman I thank you for putting the one hour limitation that gives us the opportunity to come here when I Sor I for like that but we we we um certainly heard a lot about what this board thinks about garage apartments and uh about living space in the garage Etc but as I I think it was you said Mr fitzerald each case stands on its own merits every case is unique we're hoping that the board will view this as a use that is permitted we're not seeking an apartment now I've no noce for an apartment based on what I heard from talking to your code enforcement but we're not seeking use for apartment it's it's essentially a a living space we still have the two parking spaces in the garage still a full functional garage it's just that this Flex space is an adjunct to the house because they have the five kids the kids are growing older and um we just think that this would be a good use of it we also are right on the other side of the pool we're at grade we're meet the height for a garage and everything else uh we do need some other bols so thank you for allowing me to uh lay that out there so um with that said if I could have Mr nut come forward and be sworn all right good evening if you could just take your first and last name sure it's Mark m r c NE m e r g u t I'm sorry NE m e r g u t okay and business address uh 516a Lincoln Avenue AV by SE your tonight Your Capacity as licensed architect in the state of New Jersey and member member of architect okay good evening if you could raise your right hand you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide would be the truth best knowledge to help you go I do thank you Mr n um Mr chairman do you recognize Mr n as an expert in the field of architecture thank you thank you Mr n can you give the board an overview of the application Evolution how we got here what you've previously done for the sprays the house say there if could just uh set the stage if you will as to how we got here sure so on the property now as you know is an existing uh essentially three-story structure um that was built around late 90s um it's kind of a unique floor plan because the first floor is one large open space and recently we were hired to renovate it and uh make it a little bit more usable um break it up a bit more but I want to point out that it does not have any bedroom space on that floor which we commonly Design Homes now with at least one sort of office bedroom area so that somebody could use it at grade does not have that the but other than that the first floor is pretty normal the second floor is consists of uh two bedrooms in an open space and then there's a half story or a third floor that has two additional bedrooms as well so we're looking at four bedrooms and I believe three or four baths very straightforward house so is that the way it looks now that's after your renovation uh yes we didn't do much for the exterior I'm sorry how many bedrooms now uh four bedrooms and how many have we're at one two three three three thank you and three and half sorry um but aside from that that's how the house sits right now literally like today see it like that in the back of property as John will point out there is a detached twocc car garage uh it has a 16t door on it and I believe there's a door from uh from the back of the property by the house for them to access that also to the yeah that's good John uh to the West is a parking area here that's all concrete this is all concrete here as well that's pretty much that's the and there's a in ground pool as well so just if you can and and that angle of the uh garage on the right where where would you be adding on to the garage where where would the height be and then we'll go to the floor plan and you can kind of get the idea of um so the existing structure as I mentioned is here we're going to reconfigure this doorway a little bit to slide it over we're actually going to put a door in here so they come back from the beach they can get into the garage but our addition and the reason we're here is going to be projecting Westward from this from this uh structure basically holding the line will be holding the line on the lane and projecting towards the Westerly uh sidey guard setback and then projecting uh towards the southern point of the property towards the house as on plans so if you can just show us from uh just give us an orientation where's the house because there's a lot of lines there sure of course of course so this is as1 this is the sheet that you guys all have in front of you this is the main structure here that I spoke of initially four is down here in between the main structure and the garage is that that Terrace area with the pool and then we go into this garage was justified to the Eastern corner of the property Northeastern corner of the property our expansion is in this Western corner here and the lane lane is at top of the page let's go through what the floor plan would be so we this what we have here well first let me look at the uh than so what I've done here is I've rendered the elevations and the floor plans on one drawing this is a i the top or oh yeah this is fine so this is the view from the the house looking towards um the back of the garage if you will this dash line is the current uh Ridge and and volume of the garage as it sits now that is reflected through as well so you can get a feel as you go to the next elevation which is the side here uh towards East you can see the structure of that and likewise there I do want to point out that this Ridge we are um since we're adding on and I can't I had to turn basically turn the roof uh 90° I I had a overframe or remove the existing roof and frame over it long story short that new Ridge is compliant with the 18t so it's actually below that believe it's 16 and change so there's no no height issue there um with regard to that our addition in this case here this is a view from the back of the house looking at the garage our addition is here and then tie it in architecturally and to get it to shed water and snow I had to uh extend the roof over top of it can you explain those doors yes so this existing door um is a new door in an existing opening this is where it exists now this allows them to come in from the pool yard or the backyard into the garage get in their car and Le the addition we're building is essentially this volume here this is a um it's a like a French Anderson French door with one active leaf on it allows them to get into the uh the the habitable space the habitable space so let's look at what the back will look like or the street side so again here this is again the existing volume of the garage Das in here and the addition as noted on the plan here proposed addition comes out approximately 112 ft here goes up and the roof comes over top of it as I mentioned earlier uh it's a 16t door that's there now for two cars we're sliding it over to create space to get in um because for some reason the garage is not built with a door anywhere close so you have to actually go all the way around but in this case that door is just to get to the garage in this case and if I could just refer to the plan yeah sure this is the original plan the only change that's on the drawing that's in front of you guys as opposed to what was submitted has to do with Furniture that's it that's all it is and we and and I think John has addressed that but I want to point out a couple things this is the existing door here to the garage this is the exist be better to go one of these PL that's maybe a little clearer yeah that's that's perfect y this is the existing garage two cars can go in it we're sliding the door down or putting in the new door I mentioned I want to point out that although this is the addition there's no door on from the lane uh to get into this addition they actually have to come you know from the the house which is what they want to do into the space nor is there a door from the garage into that space so did you do that to make it I'm Sor again no door sorry so this is the line of the existing garage wall that is remaining okay as you can see there's no way to get in from the garage or have somebody come in through the garage and come into the space they would physically have to come all the way around and come into the their literally their backyard to get into the space so why why did you do that to make it to the house yeah to make it what it is basically and that is a space for them to use as a family member to be and part of the reason why we did this larger door with the with the glass panel is that when you're in there you could actually relate to people that are maybe out in the pool or out in the backyard it's that kind of connection we were trying to achieve when we did not put a door at the front of the structure here by the lane it's a bathroom so let let's take a look at the relationship to the uh rest of the yard let me find that drawing here we so just explain it now again switching over to the overhead view of the schematic yeah I'm going to just walk through some impervious uh uh things here effectively from the garage down we're not adjusting anything on the site so everything that is there that's shaded in is existing that includes the front walkway the porch the house uh the condens condensing units that are there and this this large patio area and the pool that's all remaining um as is when we get to the garage area we're doing a little bit uh adjustment here currently and the pictures reflect that there is a large concrete apron cast in place concrete apron not papers nothing like that for the driveway and a parking area we're basically swapping out that concrete for part of the structure if you will and in order to actually get from the lane or come back from the beach from that way there is a small walkway we're adding along the Westerly side here to get to the back um also this is going to be heated it has Plumbing in it it's going to be used all year round so we're putting a heat pump in it for cooling and boing so I'll be very clear about that which means that we need an air air cool condenser at gr which is located right uh in the back of the garage which does not require variance for any B Apartments so this will have one electric meter right one gas meter one so yes so the house it will share its utilities from the house including the sewer the water the gas the electric so this is like a remote room to the house it does that's what that's what the intent is here all right that's um so the the let's just take a look at the uh conditions of the conditional use criteria for for U accessory dwellings so the the code here says that the creation of of uh the creation of an accessory dwelling shall be conditional use and shall be subject to the following standards and conditions right so then we go existing structure and then um existing structures within the bar Barrow which contain existing accessory dwelling units are eligible so we're not in existing accessory structure right just the garage just the garage but we're not an accessory dwelling correct it says which contain D so what rather than you know me go through each paragraph of this where do we meet and where don't we meet so um item number three as part of this um basically lists a series of criteria um that assess how compliant something like this is uh the first criteria number line item um down one more sorry there you are uh minimum 5 foot step back from the property boundaries I will admit we are three and A2 ft on the western side all right this structure when we designed it um it's approximately 12T 11 and 1/2t wide it's just enough and honestly this was designed so that somebody in a wheelchair could navigate that bom and why it is as wide as it is um if I take a look again at layout you can explain what we're talk about so what we have is as I mentioned you come into a common space we show a pull out sofa um area a desk a pocket door that's 36 in wide a small closet and then we have to provide Heating in this place and some water heating as well so we need that we can't put it in the garage the garage is not conditioned not putting we add it for the same reason so we have a closet but more importantly for their my client's needs there's a rolling actually this is a walk-in tub with the door on it um and as well as a small sink and in a toilet area so this is that that area that is fairly accessible uh for residential standards and that's why we got to that width so you can see coming off of here that's why I did that um and and subsequently got to that 3 and 1/2t sidey guard setback that we mentioned so that was one of the criteria going to the next one John yes please so obviously we have a 10t difference a 10 foot distance from all accessory structures the primary structures everything we meet that requirement um it's mentioned on my plan uh that the pool is is more than 10 ft from what we're building and as well as a garage now item C has to do with the area I'm sorry the pool is more than 10 ft which letter was that uh well letter b a minimum 10ft distance between accessory dwelling structures and Main residential structures or other accessory Tru so uh we are at item see here this is the next one this has to do with the area so the way I'm reading this and John and I have read this 650 Square ft um would be the footprint of it then there is uh some description about a 10% um of the lot area and up to a 15% requirement in the lot area so in our case uh we're focusing in on the 15% per uh area which just for the math our lot is 5200 sare ft uh 15% of that I believe is 780 square feet and our structure with the existing garage and the addition which by the way is 276 ft the total is 733 ft so we would meet that criteria if I'm reading it correct continue I'm sorry just the addition was 276 sare ft 26 okay 276 correct and then what was the garage the garage is uh 457 for a total of 733 and by the way these are all included in building coverage got it all right I'm going focus in on item e because I don't think I think we're complying item D we me e uh this has to do with the height this is an easy one uh it's 12T um maximum permitted height shall be 12et from average grade along the foundation to the EES so that's that's a that's a different component there we're actually by my 9'8 to the even post garage so we're well compined with that and I will mention the ridge height for accessory structures at 18 we're at 16.9 or something like that so we're well under that comp uh next what's the one above that let's go back yeah let's go back to that one that that one yep so it says there should be only there should only be two structures on the property main dwelling structure and the accessory dwelling structure however if there's another existing structure on the property such as a detached garage the accessory dwelling structure must be constructed as an addition to the existing structure and we made that so that's yeah so now let's go down to e uh go to f f has to do with attics I believe so attics and accessory dwelling structures uh without a fixed perent set of stairs which we do not have we don't have stairs are permitted provided they are not used as H Bas so we have an attic is for uh storage it's above the garage so but there's no fixed stairs to it it's a maybe a pull down stair in in the garage we put it in there or at least SC put your Christmas decorations up there precisely uh item G basements well I'll cut that off we don't have any basements we're slab onr construction with both these obviously the garage and um the uh uh the addition and subsequently they are allowed apparently um okay lot upon which new construction SE dwelling is to be located must contain at least 4,000 ft I think as I mentioned before we're around 5300 so we meet that I believe we do y uh item that's four and then how we go into parking uh this we can get into the rest of this but basically what this is saying you guys can all read it is that we're not required as a part of this to create an additional parking parking spot for that um but we do have two in the garage and there is parking with the lane there is parking parallel in front of the garage and then that doesn't apply because we don't have any prior non performing through Lage that was discussed a lot so in in your view we don't meet all the conditions right no no um we don't meet the five foot setback and you know that this can certainly it doesn't exactly say it says the creation shall be subject to the following conditions so one of the conditions is that you're eliminating something that's already there it says existing exory structures within the burrow are eligible let me just circle that so would this be considered a pool house with a shower a pool house they have a pool so what you're not permitted to do that what they have here for a pool house because it can't be attached it's got to be a single structure okay so you know I th those are the the conditions that we need and we don't meet some so how about how about the lock coverage you don't meet that either right no we don't meet the lock coverage but that's not a that's not that's right and they're not conditional use crer and and we were over to begin with and we're going over another percentage or two and that's those are you're expanding that and the 5 foot set back you don't meet that we don't me but that's one of the conditional use criteria yeah the actual ordinance the both requirements is five foot which or three foot sorry so it's 5T on the conditional use for this what you're doing and three it a normal garage so you know there there's and this is kind of like arguing in in a case how many angels dance on the head of a pin I can analyze it and I can say legally here legally there I mean the board's going to like the application or not you certainly have the ability U to deny it on one of the buls and I think you certainly have the uh authority to approve this year but the reason why I'm going through the conditional use criteria the the the the points that I I hope that we've been able to make are accessory structures are permitted this is in a circumstance where um you've heard the expression non-permitted uses the law is designed to make them wither and die the case law actually says that Belmore hasn't done that Belmore has said if you have an accessory structure and there's plenty of them as there were in just about every other short down you can keep it um and and so it is it is a permitted use conditional it's a different standard on a use variance when you don't meet the conditional use criteria it's a lower standard than creating a non-permitted use and and what the idea is um the case law says that if you can amarate the concerns that are caused by the that the conditions are trying to prevent from from being a problem then then the board can consider that to Grant the variance in other words each of the conditions has a reason that it's trying to prevent an evil so in our case where do we you know what are the evils um that that I I would submit that the 3 and2 versus 5ot the reason for that is if you have a whole apartment right there a separate household you don't want it right on top of your neighbor it's not like a garage it's not like a shed it's not like other accessory structures but here because we don't have a kitchen because we don't have cooking facilities it can't be ready therefore it doesn't have that intensity it's going to be for members of the main household it's a lot like a mother daughter situation or an accessory bedroom so the intensity of that use isn't right on top of the neighbor so three and a half ft I would argue the bo can consider to be acceptable um what are what are the other things that we don't admit uh that we don't need if if it's only geared toward non um you know if structures that are there we have the garage there already uh albe it it's not a uh a dwelling but we're not making a dwell we're really not making a dwelling we're just making another bedroom so that's our architectural testimony so Mark you want to just talk about the other bulks with the uh non-conformities I guess I can put this I'm sorry John just say it again uh we're not making a dwelling we are just making a bedroom okay got and it's really an accessory yeah I just I didn't he the last is that a kitchen say in there no what is that what we have done uh Mr beon is we've addressed a new drawing that does not have that we've taken it out is that we already Mar yes that's what we form and we would agree as a condition that there is no sink no microwave no cooking facilities whatsoever or or laundry so um you know and that's how this evolved they thought okay we'll put a little bar sink in there and then we found out that you know Mr bian said to me well that makes it very easy for somebody to just go living in there before so we said if it's a condition of approval no SN it's a little different than saying a rental restriction because it effectively can't rent it because you'll never get a CL without a sink and without a a cooking facility so it enforces it as a bedroom so that's where we we came up with that because that's not what our our plan is for this to be used as a separate space so if I can I'll just go through the buls with the architect and then I'm going to have my clients uh explain why they're my glasses that's if that's okay I can start um oh yeah there you go oh that's the that's is and then I have presentation that's what I'm looking for all right so I've outlined on the drawings before you I've outlined obviously all the bulk requirements existing proposed and where we uh incur uh variances or nonconform this is an undersized lot first of all right I it's definitely undersized so that's gonna but we're over 4,000 square feet yeah but I think we have yeah so we're U basically we're incurring lot frage and lot diameter and I'm sorry what what's the required lot size Zone 7500 the lot size is 52 I'm sorry yes but the require all right so 5200 exists and the required is 7,500 yeah this is R 75 so okay so uh yes uh front edge is off it's uh 50 foot as required we're at 40 uh lot diameter 30 is required around 25 lot depth is fine um the house itself has two non-conformities um basically the front yard setb is off a little bit uh 20 is required 19.75 is existing um and the side yard setbacks are off in the house uh they're supposed to be at least five in a total of 15 we're looking at 4.7 is somewhere in that range and a total of 9.6 so somehow the house got bu like that existing condition now as I get into the detach garage uh there's a side guard set pack uh slightly on let just go the actual survey just slide yep right there 3 foot is required for a garage we're at we're at 2.9 I think it was on this easterly side and that side's fine we f Lane so there's no issue there uh number of Motor Vehicles this is a four bedroom house uh so I believe we need three um so we have two with the addition we going to maybe put one out on the lane or in on on this side here but that's that's one issue that I'm sorry is it four bedrooms now correct and then arguably one in the yes but if I recall one of the things in all right so that away we are we are we are all right and I just want to be clear because I appreciate saying you can block that in but that's not that's not a spot so you know I don't want to present it as if that's the solution because it's not right it's not a legal spot that's so I'm sorry there uh three bedroom I'm sorry three parking spaces required three are required per the standards I think um and then uh the other variance so floor area ratio we're just we're a bit over on that obvious because we're adding this addition but we were over no actually we're we weren't over initially we're at 65 as required 61.2 is existing we're going up to 66.5 per that ratio and building coverage obviously you know it's 30% we are over now 35.6 existing and with this addition it'll put us at just over almost 41 40.9 41 uh 4 4.9 yeah so you're a 66 ratio 66.5 66 yes so you're over yes 65 yeah of course um and then one final one uh impervious coverage so uh we are doing this coverage C with the existing concrete staying in place and we can't take any kind of deduction for perious papers or pervious pavers for that um but regardless the calculations include all of that uh for the ordinance 55 is required 58.6 exists and we're going to 60.1 this also includes the aformentioned air air cool condensing unit I included that as well so I think I got it cover as far as what's included but it does put us at 60.1 for a the pavers I believe are are able to be reduced yes around so that's the existing so that's uh and mrot do you think that you know what we're proposing will have any kind of detrimental impact on anything I mean if you look at what's there now with how close for example the neighbor structure is it takes up that full volume there just compare that to where we're building it's it's no different and then the lot next to it same deal that's maxed out as well it actually it kind of fits in I mean yes it's taking more space I can't deny that and do you see any uh detriment in that where across from multi family no I I think that uh you know it's it's right there they they mentioned that it's it's literally right right in the back of their property it's really kind of thank you that's all I have the architect any other I do I i' like have my clients come up for second do we have any questions for the arit yes hold all right hello good evening if you just state your name and address please okay good evening and welcome if you could just raise your right hand do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide be the truth best your knowledge to help you that Thank you Lisa could you just briefly give the board um your history with this house raising the kids there number of kids and why we're here now um so we B the house in 2005 when our youngest was a baby and um we we split our time between New Jersey and belar belar was our summer house and the baby just went to college um this past year and my husband wanted to make bmar a perent home um which I didn't really want to do because I love back at home but we renovated it thanks to Mark our architect and his wife Kelly and we're here since February 1 and we love it in the meantime uh my mother passed away years two years ago in July and at that point in time my dad became very close to my family um and I should say I'm an only child so I don't have any siblings that can you know help or take Dad or you know spread that around um my IDE the Genesis for this whole thing was my dad's idea because he comes in the summer he visits and he said look at that garage what if we could do my dad's a retired engineer so he's always think and I promised him I said okay you know we'll do it we have nothing to lose why not we'll just do it and that's what got us to this point where we are right now those are our needs that's how we um that's why we're here how often would your father will your father come to you anticipate he doesn't live there right no my dad still lives back where I and my husband my family came from um he visits quite a bit he still can drive I mean he's doing very well he's into his 80s um and I cook everything for my dad you know I'm like his kns on Wheels um so you know he he will be spending a lot of time with us plus realistically with my kids I mean someone you know I'm a freshman in college and they say we're supposed to speak empty nesters but that's not really true someone is always and especially now that we're six houses in be someone is always at our house if it's not friends saying you know there my kids and definitely Dad okay Lisa thank you very much I have no further question wait wait wait they might have questions oh sorry we're holding our questions till the end okay and then Robert real quick because he would want to use this as his office well so you want to come up that all right good evening if you could just state your name and address please sure robre 1064 all right do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best you knowledge you got I do thank you Mr spr you heard me describe the El uh the evolution of this can you explain what your view of how you would also use this in addition to how your father yeah I I work predominantly from home um and I do need a quiet space and for me this would give me enough space to set up a pretty decent office and so we could sort of use it probably be using as my office more than anything else and then allowing it to be converted that com by that's it right thank you thank you those are all the witnesses I have Mr chairman okay thank you so with that we'll open up to board questions chair sorry can I just asked up to two questions before um and this would either be for the architect or Mr Jackson and they not got your questions at all but it's just obviously it's a very nuanced process so I guess my first question would be just that ordinance that we're talking about I mean what is that what's the headache is it called conditions for accessory dwellings I'll I'll read the uh the the the ordinance number the record here's the eode it's uh section 40- 6.4.3 areas where accessory dwelling units are permitted as conditional uses semicolon qualification of units and conditions of converion okay and again not not a so we're using on the one hand we're saying conditions for accessory dwellings but then on the other hand you're saying it's not really an accessory dwelling right it's it's you know your zoning officer told me look I'm looking at this as a dwelling so rather than you know fight Upstream with that I said okay then I I think we can make it a good case as an accessory accessory dwelling if you consider it to be a dwelling but we'll add the condition that it can't have a kitchen or facilities to the extent that it's a dwelling people still will habitate it and you'll sleep there has elements in the dwelling but not all and then Mr one other question for for your team uh is Jackson referenced this earlier uh because he was speaking with I think one of the earlier versions of your documents had said hey we're just going to use this unit for friends and family something to that effect yes and and April that told me that so I I spoke to you know John she said you better call Mr Kennedy because we had a case so I did reference the the case and gave him a copy of the case and I said um of course it's been since I looked with that but I I said Hey listen um that basically that brand that you know used by only family and friends was frowned upon as from the court as being hard to enforce and what is exactly mean and and you can't necessarily treat an owner different from a tenant so I guess John one of the Newan question would be is is that happening or are we treating you know how would you the question are we treating an owner different from a tenant you want me to address that yeah I mean just just absolutely what interesting one one of the the things that um judge Aqua talked about was this case turack vers was my case um it's not a Prohibition on rental this is not a discrimination against rentals what the turack case said and what judge Aqua said here is you know if it's if it's a household if it's a dwelling and this Murray case it was a dwelling it had a kitchen and it was an actual dwelling they said oh we're only going to live there we're only going to have our our family there and the court said well you really can't do that because the turac cas says there's no difference when it's occupied uh the status of whether they're family or whether the renters doesn't matter so what I'm saying is I'm I'm making our stipulation different than that of course our family is going to use it um because we're not going to put the facilities in there that would lend it rental so I'm not saying you can't rent it I'm saying it's not a dwelling and that's why it's it's you know that's why they have a board of adjustment every case is different and everything has nuance and and the irony is that you know this isn't this is exactly what Robert told me at the very ad that he said we just want our father to stay there and I want to use it as an office and you know the kids might use it now and as well we have no intention of renting it and then Mr biani said you know you got a sink in there it looks like a kitchen you just pop a microwave on top of that uh uh small refrigerator and you have a kitchen and how am I going to enforce that so our proposal is it's got nothing to do with rental or not rental it has to do with we're not going to put facilities in it that will enable it to get a rental c as a standalone unit it's a lot like a mother daughter um in that you have uh an ability to have a bedroom for members of the same household they're members of the same household that will use this you have to use the main kit you have to use the main mailbox everybody's garbage goes in the same garbage can same electric meter same water meter it doesn't have most of the elements of of a separate um household so that's that's what we're proposing and that's how this evolved so I hope I've answered your question thank you will start if you're ready down by you this time um thank you very much for doing your homework and realizing that Apartments weren't way we looking to go and who go your dad for coming up with this idea it's a good idea respect um one of the concerns that I had is God forbid there's an emergency because I I drove down I had to find where Elizabeth Lane was and I voke down to my SUV how am I going to get out of here I mean are are you reporting like from the front is there a way to report someone your dad's in the back emergency you get the to the Backus coming to the front and all the way to the back in that that would be my only the lane is fairly wide I'm sorry the lane is fairly wide so I don't see any reason why an emergency vehicle couldn't get back there okay it just it was just a I understand we actually had a dumpster back not that long we and we've never driven small cars with our family so great and I don't think I have anything for you I just you do obviously agree that this could never get a CO and because of that could never be rented that's what we agree and that that facilities will be there and that'll be the enforement I guess my question is more the flashed up on the screen and I guess my confusion lies in that it seems as though the ordinance allows for an accessory dwelling if you need all those criteria and nothing is prohibiting the accessory dwelling of having say a kitchen or so I guess my question and what I'm going with this is we've got an ordinance that allows for it but then that would then trigger a d variant because you could then technically have a multi family situation there if you're not able to put restrictions on it so like it seems like it's conflicting with the master plan of it with I'm confused on that that goes to the if I may Mr keny that that goes to the nature of a conditional use now I I said at the outside we don't meet all the conditions you can say no that is and the question is how do we amarate the conditions that we don't meet and also you know it that that's the whole reason to have a board of adjustment sometimes things don't exactly fit the concept doesn't exactly fit and um we we're asking for a I have noticed for a d variance I think Mr Kennedy would put this down as a d variance and any change or expansion would require coming back to the board and one of the conditions that's why I think the board can say you know this is a part of a dwelling unit and um those conditions are what make it work why when you don't need the conditions if you're inclined to Grant this and if you all those criteria if you met all those conditions that were in there you would still I think it said in paragraph a have to present the applications uh yes what a conditional use is like a you don't see them too many times um but a conditional use says that when you meet all the conditions uh you go to the planning board to make and their review is to make certain that it meets all the conditions and then when you meet them there it's by right application and if you don't meet them you come here comment I'm struggling with a little B is um I think this is very desirable for probably everybody everybody wants this right at least I would love this use for my garage as well I just feel like it seems like it's not in the spirit of what the whole master plan is saying with respect to dwellings so little bit caught off guard with that ordinance to be quite honest with you I mean I knew it existed out there I just didn't know it was written in such a way that it is um so and and then so I guess my other thing that I'm struggling with a bit is the coverage like it's an undersized lot to begin with and so we're going to increase the intensity um and reduce the parking space and so I'm not sure the UN situated for this use so that's my comment um and I guess I got I can't say use that's mying I agree with mross you and looking at the lot other than the front B there not a blade of grass on that lot and we're just going to take away some more conrete thring it in even more and that's what I'm struggling with thank you do we have ack coverage to yes I'm sorry the coverage is what I honestly don't know 2021 2021 20120 during so you know you would go on record for saying those are per yes that's what yes we bought permeable paper to give us like a 50% can you talk to me about how do you where you connect so that was my initial concern when they asked me about this project can we get gravity fed line a gravity fed line to the front of the house the current sub sanary line exits in front of the house like most um and I actually add them bring a plum and do the calculations and figure out the iners of the pipes and we've been told that we could do that from there and it would go it's it's it's going to be disruptive don't get me wrong because we're going have to dig trench but it's going to go along the side of the pool and into the back of the house and into the cross space of the house okay so with that being said you have you have opportunity to reduce the coverage VAR well we would be existing coverage condition right we would um we would put the papers back in place yeah you have an opportunity to reduce it 60% yeah I guess we could to compliance yeah I guess we could cut it back yeah of course yeah it's a little close to the pool but yes and then what about electric it' be the same scenario different trench but yes is there Electric in the Gage uh there is but not enough for the apartment so they have to run sub where's the Elric uh well it's in the in the house now in I believe one of the closets actually I'm sorry from the front of the build or from the I believe it comes from the front of the building it comes from our house yeah into no on on the street on the street comes from the front yeah left so the service comes into the house on the front of the house correct yep there's a main panel on the first floor of the house near the kitchen we had work around it when we redesigned the kitchen area then we're going to run a conduit through the crawl space through the backyard into a sub panel in the garage and I'm sure there's a conduit there now unless it's direct burial but we can't use that that's not enough power yes yeah I don't either it's a it's a box in front of our neighbor's house is there an underground it's underground yeah it's it's he the owner is claiming that it's underground from I presume this panel with the Conduit on it we making sure and to Mr Ross's Point why not not put K because we think that that's not what we want first of all that's not our intent the way we want to use this um and we don't meet the conditions we know the board could say no we thought that the most persuasive case we would make would be if we made it unsuitable for rental nothing else but fine I got to say I've rented a lot of airbnbs that don't have kitchens so it can be a rental without a kitchen uh the parking aspect concerns me you got four bedrooms you another bedroom where does everybody Park probably not in your garage CU I walked on the Alley and doesn't look like you pull in there much so everything's on the street pretty much well we just moved right now block of Ocean Avenue and you know it's it's crowded so that's my concern okay and um just my question and or comment it's more common question I would imagine but I completely understand the ordinance um completely understand but I understand the ordinance um for accessory Dr that you're putting up there right and I understand Mr Ross's concern because it potentially could result in yeah sure I'd like to do that with my garage right everybody let so but if that's legitimate but I would that not withstanding the additional variances that this is triggering is enormous I mean you're already pushing the limits on on everything when the house was already built or when the pool went in May predated the current occupants I don't know when the previous build was built but it certainly pushed the tolerance and at that time whoever came forward probably testified that that's it that this is going to be everything we need and now we're coming back and the more is a lot I mean it's a big ass so you know if it weren't triggering all these additional variances with parking the set back with coverage you know I I might be more prone to to to hear about yeah it's just going to be an unattached bedroom but because it's Tri it' be very difficult for me to feel feel good about saying yes to this so with that um I'd like to open up to the public for public questions or comments anyone here to speak on this application there's only people I'll speak here all night for for nothing right all right good evening welcome name Grace if we are close to so by your last namec all right good evening and as the chair indicated thank you for waiting do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best you knowledge to help you guide just your address for record thank you um so yeah I'm I guess as you can see from this presentation these my neighbors describes are let's just say over the top with detail and they are classy and anything they would do would be to anybody reason I'm here is I'm the end of the end of the alley so if anything would any kind of um development or anything that would be done would probably affect me the most because as as being the end if there's a lot if there's more more development done on the on the way in then it would prevent me it would it it would affect me uh with traffic it would me with my view of the to the uh Northeast and I'm I'm here to say that I have no objection to anything that they planning on doing and so you're concerned about the alley and it's wi you can fit two cars side by side easily up and down the alley it is that so issue people have been parked and driven around for years without without even so there isn't there isn't an issue toity so that's all I wanted to say is that at being the end end residents there is no concern on my part about and hello name and address George compas 11 Third Avenue sir all right good evening and welcome do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the bestn knowledge to help you guys yes sir thank you um I think they have a lot going on I would be in favor of this but uh I guess they need more variances suppos the vots on the uh issue of uh parking I remember 20 years ago when I asked somebody in Asbury Park about people can't park anymore and the man said I wish I remember his name but he said would you rather have the as 10 years ago I understand cuz I had a restaurant town and I like seear busy that's just me do right but parking's always been a problem during the summer on the weekends I remember in the 80s you couldn't take an hour to go from the bridge to Spring Lake I mean I remember when all the bars were there I mean compared to what we have now maybe 20 days a year summer when you have a problem but parking has always been a problem in successful in Mar thank you you're welcome no one else from the public is here to speak close the public portion and I suppose open up summary sure um if the application were to be approved uh some of the potential conditions that I've taken note of would be our standard compliance with all the promises commitments and representations a team made usually there's a 24 month time frame uh building obtaining any necessary outside approvals grading range details to be reviewed and approved by the board engine if necessary there was no sync be no CF issu noit not to be rented this is not an apartment door to that front of that garage structure uh one that' be sharing the meters one meter per gas electric no kitchen no cooking so it can't be rented sink no microwave no laundry room confirmation that schol already exist uh no C can be rented no further change or expansion or change absent forther approval of the board silver connection and electric Connection in accordance with regulations I think that was the gist there was some other comments about U maybe reducing uh coverage with connection that's a condition a g and again this is a use variance so seven seven members get called and obviously for use Vari we need five affirmative yes ones okay so with that U is anyone on the board um like to make a motion um to uh approve the varant for 106 I make motion I just want to clarify just because you make a motion to approve doesn't necessarily mean you're voting to approve correct correct there'll be a motion make a motion to approve it but then vote no be chose yes and John you acknowledge that correct I acknowledge I I understand okay what what happens if if no one ever makes a motion yeah I mean you you could make a motion to deny it um motion to deny okay I understand we typically go Motion to approve okay so so Mr Lin's making a motion to approve I'll second the motion yeah and so yes is to approve yes Mr no no no no okay so that application is is denied I'm sorry Mr Jackson and Mr Mrs C thank you very much and I'd like to publicly thank Mr Kennedy very helpful Mr bii very accessible April is always a pleasure and um also sitting here seeing you know the three cases in front of us this board um you know I understood the direction you usually don't and I feel like you actually you listen and you had an open mind and um I know it's not an easy thing to say no to nice people like this not easy to hear now