and this is a adequate notice of this special meeting of the Berkeley Heights Board of Education was given as required from the open public meetings act as follows notice of this special Board of Education meeting was sent to the Star Ledger and The Courier news on March 26 2024 and was provided to all schools PTO presidents the bhea president and post stood in the administration building a copy was also provided to the public library and filed with the municipal clerk this is a special meeting for a specific purpose the board is mindful of transparency and Oprah and om regulations um uh we're going to have the flag salute and then roll call flag salute I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you Mr secretary could we have our roll call please Mr Ki Bradford here Dr here Mr here Conor hereen presentan also present we have Mr Nixon and um Mr jitz our school business administration and board secretary I thought we might have some students here tonight uh but we don't so we are going to go ahead with our presentations and start with that and then we'll have our comics from the public on any topic after that so good evening and welcome and I hope you all had a good spring break glad to be back thank you Madame President members of the Berkeley Heights Board of Education it's a pleasure to be with you this evening I know I have a window of time so I will stick with that time frame and of course give you the opportunity to ask some questions of me um before we finish this evening um thank you for letting me be with you today uh you'll see by the slideshow and by the way I did provide copies of the PowerPoint for all of you I know some people like to take notes right on the PowerPoint um I believe you also have copies of the proposal um Mr jtz told me that you received them uh via email so hopefully you have what you need and of course uh if you need anything please let me know and I'd be happy to provide for you uh you see two pictures on the screen I am not Dr Ralph Ferry he's my colleague I'm Dr Karen deino um Dr Ferry was supposed to be the lead consultant on this search uh he does not uh he's not in New Jersey at this time so that's why I'm here I'm actually from Sussex County uh so I am not all that far from you uh Dr Ferry and I may be if we are lucky enough to receive this um uh uh proposal uh with you maybe co- um you know running the search together right so you might see Dr fer if you decide to go with mcferson and Jacobson uh just so that you know who he is I'm not going to belabor uh reading from the slides I will say that Dr Ferry um retired uh as a public school superintendent in 2019 um after 44 years in education so he started when he was 12 so like everybody else right um we have a lot of years in the dedicated profession of education so if you have the privilege of working with us Ralph is an expert and has led many successful searches I on the other hand I'm a novice so I did one search last year in New Haven Connecticut it is very different from Berkeley Heights I don't want you to think that I'm trying to draw any comparisons with that District it's actually probably similar to the Patterson School District in New Jersey in similar and in uh similar in size and in diversity um however um I'm really proud that I am also a retired superintendent of schools um I worked for about 14 years in um three different districts in the state um I am in my um 31st year in education I currently do interim work um I work for mcferson and Jacobson and I also do professional development for njpsa you might be familiar with them they're the New Jersey principles and supervisors Association some of your administrators perhaps attend some of those workshops I work for gomo Educational Services um and I'm a proud graduate of upen that's where I got my doctorate I worked very hard for that so that's why I share it um in any event um I also um unfortunately saw lots of state aid Cuts in my time so I've been through the ringer with um the budget season I know what it can be like um when you're considering things like transportation and some of the other things that Berkeley Heights is talking about right now so I'm very familiar with the struggles that you face and I'm certainly very familiar with the commitment of board members so I just wanted to publicly thank you for your time I know it is just many many hours and a lot of folks don't realize that I just wanted to share since I only did one search um from New Haven Connecticut interestingly enough they actually have their mayor on the board it's an appointed position and um is a letter in the PowerPoint I'm not going to read it for btim you know but he does say uh navigating the process of hiring a superintendent can be complicated he indicates the recommendation of the services of mcferson Jacobson he says it's a pleasure to work with us uh which we of course appreciate and he talked about all of the things that we did and talked about our professionalism and being very thorough um and that they are really happy with the superintendent we helped place last year and she is still there this year and from what I hear doing very well so we're very proud of that mcferson uh or we call ourselves Mac and Jake so I may be referring to us as Mac and Jake throughout the presentation we are a national search firm so uh what that does for you is that it gives you quite a large Network as far as advertising goes to help you find the right fit for Berkeley Heights um what's really important to know is that we have over 130 Consultants they are superintendent professors College professors their Department of Ed members um other educational professionals it's a very wide reach and quite a large Network um the sustainability and Leadership is one of the things that's really important to us and I would imagine to you as well you know that the consistent um you know the consistent leadership is really important when you take a look at U Marzano's studies on success um you see some consistency in the superintendent as well as board members um and that ultimately impacts our students which is the most important thing as you can see I've taken a few pictures from the Berkeley Heights website um because I want you to understand that um I really look at Mack and Jake and Berkeley Heights as um a partnership um I was really pleased to see um some really wonderful things happening in your District so it makes me really excited uh and these are just our philosophies which are quite similar to yours I'll let you take a look at this slide for me me um probably the most important bullets are bullet two and then at the bottom one of the reasons that we work so hard with Boards of education is so that you can focus on the things that matter to you I noticed in your March Board of Education meeting you reported on talking about your goals I commend you for completing ethics training and for working with committees and having the Committees then report out to the public um I noticed that as I watched your board meeting from March 18th I believe it was um it allows you to do things like that to be transparent to work with your stakeholders to set policy to work on the budget to examine your uh Transportation um evaluation assessment you know that you've recently been through and that's where using Consultants like mac and J can be helpful um the running of the district is a heavy lift between the superintendent the board we certainly understand that so if you don't hear anything else tonight from me I want you to look at the last bullet Mac and Jake's recruitment rates so what that means is that um almost 80% for the past five years what that means is that we recruit and retain our superintendent so what Mack and Jake does that nobody else does is that when a superintendent is hired through our process they remain with that district for five years at an 80% rate now it gets a little bit more tricky right at 10 years find a superintendent to commit for 10 years it can be difficult but 50% is still a high number the number numbers are coming up in New Jersey I think mostly because salary caps are gone and those kind of things have changed but years ago we were looking at maybe a twoyear two and a half year tenure term for most superintendent so for me this is something that Mack and Jake um and I am quite proud of um I know that it's really important to have consistency when you find the right person you want them to stay on make the commitment to you just like you make the commitment to the children as volunteers um the next slide is about the investment is the costs um Mac and Jake's cost is not to exceed $188,500 um I know that you are you know in the in the midst pardon me of budget season this is an investment um so and I know that you'll be comparing this with some of the other folks later on this evening um you know what I really want you to understand is that when you take a look at this there's lots of stuff up there right and I'm going to talk about those things and advertising and that um but you have the national reach that I talked about that doesn't stop you from hiring a New Jersey native somebody in your backyard the reality is that we want to provide you with as much advertising coverage reach Network as possible so that you can make the decision we don't hire the superintendent Mack and Jake you do right we just help you in the process so these are the five phases and you'll see um I'll break this down for you in just a minute um I just wanted to call to your attention you know I noticed that your your District motto is includ include Inspire and Empower um I look at phase two and I see things like stakeholder input meetings we are inclusive right and it's something that we do at Mac and Jake and so do you so it's a really really nice partnership Inspire and Empower again it allows you to be fully invested in the interviews while we take care of all of these other things um that can be a distraction and can be a challenge uh so that you don't have to worry about it it doesn't mean we don't report to you every step of the way and keep you informed I don't want you to think that you're not a part of it so let's talk briefly about phase one and at the end I do have um a a spot for questions um so if you have them if you want to write them down on the side it might be beneficial just so that I can get through this and be mindful of the time for our next presenters so one of the most important things is identifying the characteristics of your superintendant you probably already have um not a person in mind uh as as in a name but the figure right the profile uh you know who is he or she what is their academic level what experience level do they have what type of District have they run before right do they have superintendent experience what's their administrative background what state are they from do they know the Berkeley Heights culture all of these things are the things that you will do that we will help you do because we want to make sure that we are getting it right for Berkeley Heights it's not about what we want and quite honestly some other um search firms you you know kind of have a stable of superintendents and they say we think you should go here and we don't do that um we blast everything out um and then we let them come to you um through this process I noticed when I looked at your strategic plan um that you had you know this little icon which I thought was so interesting because it talked about you know Dei and wellness technology academic uh curriculum and talent um and I thought wow you know what Berkeley Heights is really on to something here because if they're looking for talent in their teach staff I'm hoping they're looking for talent in their Chief School administrator as well so um once again it's about the partnership between um Berkeley Heights and mac and Jake so here's phase two stakeholder voice I was just talking about this um identifying and soliciting imput from various groups is really interesting when I was in uh New Haven believe it or not they had a group called the elders I didn't name the group but they were not um older people in town they were actually clergy any members of any type of denomination it's a very diverse Community it's an urban area um and one of the stakeholder groups was the elders and they came and spoke with us about what they wanted to see in the superintendent remember the children go to their churches or their synagogues right so it's really important for those leaders uh in the religious sector to have a say in that Community right for you it can be you know your local EMT your local volunteers your Town Council your PTA or HSA or whatever those organizations are that is customized and individual to you to Berkeley Heights right that is not cookie cutter that is to make sure that we get it right when we're working with you and I thought it was so great when I looked at your mkm mission statement and I know this is your your littlest school but I thought it was so great that you were talking about engaging families and Learning and Development beyond the classroom from primary stages in Berkeley Heights it's a really wonderful way to Anchor your district and we're hoping that we can be the anchor to work with you in really reaching out to the stakeholders on preparing summaries um another example what will happen is once we get to the stakeholder voice um you know we will actually take nearly verbatim notes on what people say during those meetings and you get everything so for example if there's a student voice you mentioned earlier there might have been some students here and I know I'm president Bradford that they didn't show up but we love them anyway because we love hearing from our kiddos so if you have a student group um myself and Dr Fair sit we transcribe everything that they say we want a a superintendent who is visible we want one who comes to our athletic events we want somebody who promotes gland at the board meetings right I mean we want whatever and that becomes part of what you receive to say huh I didn't know that that's what our students wanted or I didn't know that that's what our parents wanted or I'm not surprised that that's what our community wants so those summaries are really really important and it helps us develop a really unique application customized to Berkeley Heights and then of course in phase two um we will work on Advertising the position some of these um were referenced in your um proposal um they're also referenced on the slide that says investment it talks about some of the organizations where we advertise again National um advertising uh and we do try to look for diverse candidates mcferson and Jacobson is a is a diverse um organization we do have um uh 30% women yay right doesn't always happen but um you know so um but whatever you're looking for right the point is to bring you as many qualified candidates as possible right um and then again we have a large Network that blast goes out via email it also goes to all 130 plus of our Consultants who then share it with people they know right so the reach is quite extensive and of course we keep everybody informed throughout the process as we go into phase three okay there's the clock sorry I didn't know where the where one was in phase three um you know I wanted to touch on um something that I think is really important to Boards of Education during the pre-interview process um Mac and Jake actually um collects video applications as well and you are privy to everything right so while we're going to present to you the ones that meet the profile that you created you get everything right so you see everything every single candidate from Soup To Nuts and it's all based on the criteria that you've created but the video interviews are outstanding you get to create the questions for the video interviews you can create a rubric to critique the video interviews we will work with you on that it's really great because on paper somebody looks one way and then when you hear them speak maybe they don't speak very well maybe they don't make eye contact maybe you don't feel that they're passionate about um education and it's really important that you actually get to see somebody on a video prior to them coming and visiting you so I I really wanted to emphasize the video component I think it's Unique um it's also quite informative for members of the board and of course we complete all the reference checks right and all those things are done on your behalf again you get everything we work for you so we don't do it and keep it to ourselves but we organize it we put it together in summaries and we provide it to you uh in a setting so that you have time to review all of those candidates super important so phase four is interview preparation um we're going to help you determine which candidates to interview doesn't mean we pick but we might say let's go back to phase one here's your criteria and now you love this candidate are you certain that this candidate you love is aligned with this criteria that's up to you that's not up to us at Mac and Jake but we're here to try to keep everybody focused on the mission of getting the best possible candidate based on what you desire right and the most important thing that the board does is hire the superintendent so um the procedures um you know are important as far as visitation goes obviously uh we'd be working I would assume uh with with uh Mr jessco witz to make sure that we are in line with board meetings and in uh you know closed session or any kind of committee meetings that we have to uh be in line with you to make sure um that we that we're uh on time with you the other thing is that in some states and this is actually personal preference it's certainly not required in New Jersey but in some states once you get to finalists it's required that they're made public we don't do that in the state that's up to you um you know at least it's not it's not required in the state and it's not a common practice but in other states um applicants have to be um it has to be public once they're finalized what that does is it starts to tell people there's movement in other places right um not NE bad thing but just something that I wanted to mention um the stakeholder input groups are really important like I said and of course we schedule interviews and take care of that for you a few more things on phase four um you know we make sure that the finalists know when they're coming you know to visit we keep all candidates informed with their status that also take some of the sting away from hi I'm sorry you're not going to the next round right you don't have to do that we do that for you right so that once you've decide Ed to release candidates that's something that we can do you don't have to worry about getting into a conversation um that wouldn't be comfortable right because sometimes that can be awkward um so again personally contact each finalist background checks and then here's something that's really exciting so phase five is important so um as I said I was so pleased to see you know the board meeting working on your goals and I know you've got some other goals because I took a look at your uh you know website um pretty extensively um and the reality is that when you hire your superintendent you want them to have really clear expectations which are their performance objectives right the superintendent should be knowing what he or she's expected to do what the responsibilities are of that person what the expectations are of the board as well as the community right so we will assist you with that it is part of phase five and we actually provide a guarantee what that means is that we guarantee for for two years so if the superintendent that we've helped you find and that you've hired leaves for any reason we will come back at no charge except for actual expenses um we are so confident um that we have done a good job and that Mac and Jake is again a national firm that's been working for years at placing um superintendents and boards and successful partnership situations and of course there are additional Services if you were interested like a job description ion or a contract which we know the attorneys usually handle the contract negotiations and take care of all of that um as well as on-site visits you're probably familiar with the timeline I know this can feel a little bit cumbersome um you know we can tailor it to the unique needs of the district um it usually is a minimum of two to three months from when we start and that's important and as I'm sure you're aware if a superintendent is a sitting or Acting Superintendent somewhere else they have to give notice right in their District many districts don't want to let the superintendent go unless they have an acting or an interim ready to jump in and assist right it's very hard um nor can we be without a superintendent it's against code so um the last thing is our final slide talks about transparency sustainability of leadership and high involvement of stakeholders and when I look at that from Mac and Jake um two out of those three things are are already things that I know Berkeley Heights is really really interested in I know that transparency means a lot to you um I can see it by the recent goal and the strides you've made and the transparency that you have with your um broadcasted meetings and some of the other uh changes that you've recently um underwent here in Berkeley Heights as well as the high involvement of stakeholders uh and those things are really important to you and they're important to us as well um and we believe that every student is entitled to a high quality education we believe in quality leadership we know that you do as well I noticed your um uh focus on wellness and of course celebrating glissando at the board of ed meeting I think back in December um but I am very excited to be here I am more than happy to take your questions and I hope I can answer them because this is my first time doing this hope so thank you Dr you're quite welcome do we have any questions from the board yes Mrs Dolly hi thank you so much for the presentation um uh the one question that comes to mind regarding the guarantee it just says if you choose to use our complete service is that is that something Beyond what you have described here or it's just it is what it is yeah that's a great question the complete Services the phases one through five the $88,500 that's on like slide four or five that says investment um that's the full services that includes advertising recruitment networking creating the profile running the stakeholder meetings we do all of that so um and that is the entire package the only thing that's additional um was the FI was the slide I think right before um this one additional Services these are the only ones that are additional so I hope that helps that's the job description um you know developing a contract and on-site visits to the finalists home community so everything else is included does that make sense or no no it makes sense it's just that here it says additional provided without an additional fee yeah so we can choose to um if if we need it yes y yes Mrs Penna you have a question I do is this on can you hear me so uh great presentation thank you very much um so I know you mentioned the timeline is minimum of two to three months in your experience with your company how long do you foree that this process takes or how long have you with with your company what is your process in terms of timeline I think it's a great question I mean part of it is I know this is a special meeting so thank you for calling a special meeting really just to hear the proposals from Consultants um I know that you need to deliberate and make a decision and all those things and you have to approve you know the agreement with uh Mack and Jake or with somebody else um from once that happens I think three months is still doable right I mean we like to start as quickly as possible of course that means sometimes more meetings I'm sorry right but this is the most important thing you're going to do as a board is hiring your superintendent but the benefit like we said in Phase One really getting that profile right for you is one of the most important things because once we send that out nationally we can't take it back right so once you say this is what we want and and we say absolutely you get to proof everything you proof the advertisement you proof the criteria you proof the profile you see everything before we blast it out to the nation so that's why that process is really super important but doing that um it I mean New Haven and like I said a very large school district was about 3 months from the beginning to the end we worked hard and fast a few times um but sometimes you have to um and I know I don't know the particulars of course of Mr Nixon's uh contract I know it was just approved on the 18 but I didn't take a look at that um but I do know that you're here acting hopefully uh you're able to be here through the uh search process so thank you Dr forer all right uh uh let's see I had a couple questions um on page looks like page five investment one day of in-person stakeholder meetings so is that stakeholders are usually maybe I should ask you who are the stakeholders and how could you possibly get this all done in one day so um when I did great question when I did it in New Haven and I said I live in susex County so I live in Vernon and the drive to New Haven was a couple of hours um and it was one day so I got there really early in the morning and I was there into the late evening however the benefit is that um I got to see everybody in the town right so in the morning you know it may have been the teachers union that you know for like an hour then it was like School administrators for an hour then it was um you know clergy the elders that I mentioned in that particular community and I'm not saying it's an hour I don't recall but we give a period of time um and we've stacked up uh different folks throughout the day here's the benefit I know what you're worried about that it's a lot right but that's on us that's not on you um the benefit is that when you advertise to your community hey stakeholder input sessions are going through day the benefit is that everybody knows it's that day and they don't well are principes on Tuesday and it's teachers on Wednesday or is it kids on Monday um the other thing is that we still accept a stakeholder input even if people couldn't make meetings right so people were able to email comments to us um you know we did some of them virtually because uh one of the presenters actually had an injury and could not be there in New Haven so she was like on a screen uh and sometimes you have to you know modify we did do them in one day um if the board felt that that was not something that worked with Berkeley hkes I'm sure that it's something that we could work around um Mac and Jake and with our proposal I would have to check with the home office um I couldn't give details and you all would have to talk about that anyway but but that but we did stack them together Dr forer I hope that helps a little bit okay um and the other thing is uh Dr Ferry I think worked in Berkeley Heights he did as a principal but I don't see it on his resume why is that probably because it was 44 years of education I think it was the middle school principal Dr Ferry my understanding that's right yes so he was here interestingly enough he was the superintendent and obsin and then I became the principal after him like we all kind of follow each other education is kind of a small circle so okay thank you um if I may Mrs Ziri question um on the stakeholder input so the only example that we got was of one day at New Haven as a nationwide firm do you have or can you get back to us on have you had multiple sessions we've seen I think fortunately or unfortunately our neighboring towns have also been looking for superintendence and I have attended couple of sessions like Madison New Providence and couple in Bergen County so I think they're phased and they put surveys out they give time to parents and working parents who cannot come right so is that something that your firm has done before yeah we have so it depends again everything is scalable based on the need of the community so so um New Haven is larger than Berkeley Heights and we were able to do it in a day but for them that's what they wanted right if you want five stakeholder input meetings then that's something that we have to take a look at and talk to you about and find out how we would want to make changes um to the you know to the proposal what I would say is that the most important things right are the profile that you develop because that gives us like the the gas pedal right it gives us the green light to tell us exactly what we need to advertise and the input is super important I mean you know I mentioned I've you know watched some board meetings and I've learned a bit about Berkeley Heights and I know that transparency is really important to all of you right now so I can see why it would be a concern there's no reason why we couldn't um we couldn't arrange additional stakeholder meetings especially if I'm one of the Consultants I'm not that far from you right so the reality is that as a consultant for Ma and Jake whether I'm a co-c consultant or a lead consultant I'd be one of the people working with you um I'm not that far right so when we're talking about these places to travel and some of our Consultants tra like Dr Ferry has the whole East Coast right so he's he does um Florida he does Virginia he does um Baltimore you know I mean he's done uh so many searches so we've done it's customizable for the needs of the district we want to work with you and get you what you feel is necessary okay and terms of stakeholders or groups I heard PTO and administrators teachers so if you have like a local community group I think we have like a parent run um you know like a community where we they publish information so would you be allowing them to come in as a group that's that's up to you you determine the stakeholder groups that's up to the board okay so so anybody who lives in Berkeley Heights we have to give you now on the timeline you said that it's Unique I think it's on slide um so we have to determine the timeline I think it's phase 4 or phase three so what if 3 months doesn't work for us you give us a list of candidates I think we've seen that happen in one of our neighboring towns I think after seven months or nine months the board couldn't come to a an agreement so does it limit you is it something that we have to put in our contract and say that hey you guys are only going to be with us for 6 months and no no the the cost works with you from the beginning to the end so if we in other words the proposal the investment slide that talks about the proposed uh fee right to Berkeley Heights that's the entire process so if in you know two months we provide you with you know um stakeholder summaries and we've provided you with a list of candidates and you say yeah you know we don't like any of these folks we'd like to read advertise right the timeline can be extended to meet the needs of Berkeley Heights okay um one last question I think this is phase four you said that you conduct criminal Financial um background checks so how far back do you go do you also do background checks on ethics cases and any settlements that are not available publicly you know what I mean I I'm going to give you some of the answer and the other I'll have to get back to you and and send an email uh to Mr jtz if that's okay so you know I mean obviously we know in New Jersey the last few years we've had the past the trash goes back like 20 years right I mean so you know we obviously do a very deep background check as far as um interestingly enough when you look at ethics um the ethics things do usually come up right it's not really a background check but when you look at the school ethics commission those things are easy enough to find settlements don't show up settlements don't show up you're right on the settlements I don't know um what our system allows us to see so that's the only one that I'm not sure of but I can get back to you on that one thank you you're welcome uh Mrs cona thank you for the presentation great job thank you um going back to the question that Dr far had about the stakeholder meetings so if we choose to have more meetings does that mean that the the pricing would be different uh like if one meeting doesn't work and maybe we need three meetings I I don't think so I mean I don't want to I don't want to guarantee I mean the home office puts because this is a national firm they put everything thing together I don't believe that change for for example where I would speculate the change would be would be advertising right in other words if we have on the list that we're going to advertise in five National Publications then you say well we want 10 that might include uh increase the price because we would be passing that on to the board because there's additional cost to advertise in those magazines Etc as far as the stakeholder input sessions go I don't believe that would impact the cost but I don't know for sure but I will find out out for you okay that that typically when you run these sessions when you go through the process do you have an estimate of the time that you expect from board members as you go through the you know phases the time from the board members you know I mean it really depends on um I think how um how much the board can be in agreement with one another from the beginning and that can be a challenge because everybody wants like the greatest superintendent of all time right I mean every and like I'm working so I can't come work for you I'm just kidding but we have to have some humor at some point in the evening right so anyway um but I understand right so part of it is that you know um I think you know it really does depend on how close you can come to consensus however I will tell you that I only have experienced to New Haven um New Haven had a very challenging search with mcferson and Jacobson like the year before I was a part of the team um and it was uh contentious and there were there was a lot of turnover on the board and the superintendent didn't last and we went back for free and we did it again and we had what I think was a really successful search the woman who was the lead consultant was excellent she's a seasoned uh professional she did an excellent job so one of my jobs would be to work with you and to try to keep you on track as a as a collective group and that can be really difficult sometimes but I promise um that I'm a really good listener I know I've had to do a lot of talking tonight I don't like that very much um but part of what I'm supposed to do as a consultant is listen to you and get it right for you and you're supposed to say yeah Dr dinino that's not that's not where how we feel and then I have to course correct so that you have what you want and need as you develop your profile it's probably the most important thing so I think the more unified that we can be from the beginning the faster the process will start to go um but that really does depend on the ability for us to work collaboratively got it and one last question you you work with multiple districts right so have you seen a point where there is um contention for the same candidate between two districts you know within the same state you know what I mean I haven't seen it through Mac and Jake um it does happen there's quite a bit of turnover as you were just talking about um I'm I do interim work now so I'm familiar with a lot of the vacancies that are popping up all over um you know I think it depends the other thing is that the match is really important right so you know you will get to a point and I can only compare when when we were in New Haven um the the woman um there were actually three Consultants myself and two other people and each of us had had to research uh certain candidates the top candidates I was lucky enough to get the lady they hired as the superintendent um but interestingly enough I don't think she was a fan favorite from the beginning there were some people who were like I'm not really sure um but when the uh District went back to their original desires and intentions that was how they were able to be unified on the decision um and then it didn't it wasn't an issue whether there was a problem with another place and that's where the video interview really comes into play so the the woman that they hired her name is Dr mine nron she's doing an outstanding job and um her interview video interview was really really excellent and I think she spoke the language that the board needed to hear for example there was another gentleman I can't remember his name and he off is really arrogant in his presentation super well-qualified gentleman from a very very large District somewhere in the country that I won't name but he came off as a little arrogant and I I think I think the board was like we're not comfortable that that was that District right so part of it is that um I don't see at Mac and Jake I've not seen kind of this Push Pull and and and kind of back and forth jocking for the person and I do think when we talk about leadership sustainability when you find the person that's yours they're not going to want to be anywhere else you know and that's the most important thing so I hope I have not seen it through Mac and Jake I do know that it's there's a lot of stuff going on throughout the state but it it's not uncommon it's it's still a difficult Society I think not education but a lot of things other questions Mrs Stanley hi so um I just wanted to know like we're we're looking at right having a a superintendent come aboard and you build a contract what kind of contract time frines are you seeing I know you said about three 3 to 5 years is kind of the average what are people leaning more towards the fiveyear um because they want stability or yeah I mean from you know obiously you know in the state of New Jersey it is minimum three maximum five years right I mean that's how we roll in the state um I am seeing more five-year contracts happening uh recently I think that's because boards and superintendents want stability it also gives opportunity you negotiate the contract I mean that's like an additional service from Ma and Jake um but you negotiate that contract right I mean you're talking with your board attorney you're talking with your school business administrator you have a budget you know what you have in mind um you know and I think that the reason we're seeing more five-year contracts is because people want commitment on both sides the other thing is that you know in education the wheels can sometimes turn quite slowly right and in three years I think three years ago you know we were we were still in covid a little right it's 2024 2021 we still weren't out of it right so you know in three years I I don't think that boards and supers feel that they can get as much accomplished as they thought they once could and that could be for any number of reasons but to answer a question I am seeing more fiveyear like longer contracts but totally totally up to you right um and then my next question is um I know right we do background checks and whatnot but now we see a lot of social media checks as well of course um the Google searches um how much does that weigh in your um advice to us it's it's huge I mean you know it's not included on the on the proposal but you know it's interesting I mean when we do um reference checks uh you know you'll check one reference and that person will say something and you'll say well can I reach out to somebody else and we will we will go pretty far down that rabbit hole with permission right um but we do do social media searches um and in fact in the last search uh that I ran last year we did have um person whose social media account was not as clean I would say as the board wanted and in fact when it was time for Mack and Jake to recommend finalists we said look this candidate looks amazing on paper you're going to love his video interview he was vibrant charismatic super intelligent um but we found some social media things that we were concerned about but that's not for us to decide that's for you to decide we share that with you and then you can make the you might say you know what we don't want to deal with that at all that's not for Berkeley Heights or you might say this candidate is so Stellar that we can Overlook that's a your call not an our call all right thank you so much you're welcome any other questions yes Mrs Ziri how do you um recommend the interview process are you present at these interviews with the selected candidates and us are we doing group interv views are we getting 30 minutes with each board member and then we give it the feedback what's your that's a good question so we are present Mac and Jake is with you during the interviews if you noticed in the process we work with you to create interview questions all of that is predetermined and all of that is scripted for the most part right you may say we're going to script everything but we're going to leave um you know something at the end if a board member thinks of something and wants to do a follow-up they're permitted to do so that's up to Berkeley Heights that's not up to us that's up to you so you attend each interview we do and it's a group interview or is it a oneof when you say group interview what do you mean so let's say you you find us five prospective candidates are we do we have to find time and all of us have to be here or couple of us have to be here or we are working do we do oneon-one 30 minutes and then give you the feedback how does it work that's up to you I mean I would some districts um use a quorum of the board or I'm sorry not a quum of the board and use like a Personnel committee some districts use the entire board committee and if that's the case you can uh do them in executive session you can do them which I would recommend of course you don't want to have your interviews in public um but you know so you could have a special public meeing like this go into executive session bring your candidate up the full board goes through the interview process and you do one after the next after the next after the next it depends I think on how many you bring back if you decide that there are you know you may get 40 applicants and say wow these are really amazing let's interview 10 that feels like a lot but you may some of you may be in love with certain candidates that you really want to see so again it really does depend on how many folks you'd like to see we'll customize that time to make sure that you have ample time in between so that your um philosophies are reflected as a board that's really really important does that help a little bit I know it's not an exact answer I'm sorry no I was just looking at as a nationwide firm do you have have set processes because from what I've seen in our neighboring towns I think it's a I think we actually have a policy where the entire board every board has to interview every board member has to interview and I think it was a one-on-one interview that I was thinking oh I see yeah I mean you know we do have set processes at Mac and Jake obviously because we're Nationwide we have to pay attention to policies and regulations in each state um you know but here you know again we work for the district so we need to do whatever we can and to provide you with the highest level of comfort you've hired us we hope to provide that service for you so again it depends if you have three candidates that's different than if you have 10 right it's a different timeline you maybe you want to do a deeper dive and ask your three finalists very extended um you know things you may ask for a presentation you know there are so many different things that happen when you get to that final step and how do the stakeholders of the community interviews happen I thought you said they also interview the candidates how do you arrange those no the stakeholders don't interview the candidates and I I wouldn't recommend that you're the board you're the ones who interview and name the superintendent you want the stakeholder input so what that means is that Mack and Jake meets with the stakeholders either in one very long day that Dr forer said that's probably not a very good idea or in several days right and we will work with you on that so um you know we gather the input from those stakeholders we give that to you so that you can review that and say huh our students would like this our faculty would like this our you know um the local publication would like this right whoever your community input stakeholders are we give that to you so that helps you know who you're representing right you're elected by your uh you know Township um folks right um but it also gives you a really really good picture on what's happening in the community you may think that you hear from all your stakeholders many times you know the squeaky wheel gets the oil right so you might hear from those stakeholders more than others um and the stakeholder input session gives you the input from every stakeholder that you want to hear from but they don't interview the candidates so in your Nationwide search you've never had any stakeholders interview like we have the bhea we have the teachers union or the administra so nobody from them is present to interview a candidate not not during interviews no but that's why the input sessions are important their voices need to be heard right transparency matters um but the interview really should be done by the board okay thank you so much Dr we appreciate you coming and for presentation thank you so much for your time I really appreciate it have a great night thank you thank you again good evening Mrs Hela thank you so much for coming yes and we know that you had made some changes to the presentation which we received yes thank you in your folders there is a paper copy of the presentation so that's for your reference thank you so much you can use the arrows all right beautiful but I'm not going to read from those I should use the microphone shouldn't I thank you okay I'm not going to read from the slides um too much a click click click is probably not ideal and I know you have a lot of work ahead of you tonight and I'm sure that you have questions um but thank you very much for having me here and I'd like to introduce myself um to begin with I am your neighbor actually my name is Kathleen helaa and I live in Warren Township I served on the board of education in Warren Township and it was my joy to do so um and as part of my service one of the things that I am most proud of doing is having appointed the superintendent who still sits there so I understand where you're coming from I've been in your seat literally and I do love the process um after I left the Warren Board of Education in fact the reason why I left the board of education is because I went to work for the New Jersey school boards Association and did all sorts of uh professional development with boards and my favorite aspect of that job is the superintendent search so now that I have left New Jersey school boards I form my form my own firm I can choose my own clients and I can spend my days as I like and that's where that's where I find myself facilitating an awful lot of superintendent searches but it is my joy um since I've been out on my own I've helped or am helping eight different client boards um and there's a lot of motion out there um but luckily I have the process down to a science I've facilitate I've completed 23 searches um in my day uh and most of them for the New Jersey school boards Association but again eight clients for Kathleen helaa Educational Consultants LLC and as I went through my years doing these I've refined the process I've identified what I think works best for boards what needs a little tweaking what we can remove um and I do have it down to a really um a process that I'm proud of and that my boards really do love so I'm very pleased to talk about it to you tonight so thanks again for having me and one of the things that I love about it and that I know you will love about it is that this is about leadership for your children this is a really affirmative exercise it's forward thinking it's Visionary and it really is um a joy to talk about the things that we do when we're deciding which candidates to interview when we're deciding how to word the advertisement when we're deciding what kind of interview questions we should be asking and what kind of answers we should be looking for because this high is is going to impact every child in your district and your community as well but we keep our focus on the children of course and that's part of what makes it so rewarding so what I wanted to know from you and you can just tell me briefly I mean I'm familiar with with your District but I don't sit on your board and I am wondering if you could tell me what some of your points of Pride are in your District what are you most proud of about the Berkeley height School District why wouldn't excellent candidate want to come and work here we have comments sorry yesly oh sorry Mrs Stanley um so we are definitely a leader in the area with coming um we want our students to have the best and be able to go to the best schools that they Hearts Desire um I think one of the biggest things that we want the kid to be well-rounded um make sure that they it's a holistic approach um so we're pushing our SE um curriculum really hard to make sure that we're preparing our students for college right that our high schoolers especially right are mentally ready to go off um and so for me I think that's that's something that Berkeley Heights does really well is they focus on our students and how do we prepare them for the next steps um and then I think the second thing is that we are a special education focused we really want to make sure that those students have the opportunities that they want um here in Berkeley Heights um and I think that we are a great example to the surrounding districts of that thank you and I'm seeing nods so thank you for saying that this is Dolly sure um I'd like to um highlight our teachers we have some very um dedicated teachers who I know you know take um a lot of pride in what they do and are very um engaged with the students so you know props uh props to the teachers here good um and you know I'm I'm also happy with our Athletics I mean my kids both do Sports so I do like the extracurricular activities not just the Athletics but everything that's offered um in terms of clubs committees um different ways to participate for any type of Interest a child might have okay thank you Mrs Kaa what Natasha said and I think the other the other Focus from a community perspective I would say is uh making sure that everybody has the opportunity the focus on academics to make sure that right from kindergarten all the way through the high school all students have the you know they get what they need meet them at the student level to get the education to get the support that they need to succeed like that's really important from a community standpoint I would add that is wonderful thank you Mrs Ziri yeah i' would like to say when I think we've been here for 12 years we moved to Berkeley Heights when I was first looking at communities I saw Bell labs and then I asked around we've lived in Summit for many many years and I was leaning towards Morris County and you know and then somebody told me and then when I came here I actually did look at couple of the schools the University what we offer and we are a very unique District we offer busing um compared like you know our some of our neighboring districts don't do for a Smalls siiz Community like this so catering to everybody's needs like dpti said um we used to be like I think 12 years ago when I first looked at our rankings they were very good so I think what we would want anybody looking at us coming in is trying to make us get back to where you were previously okay that upward trajectory right yeah okay thank you thank you Mrs Penna and and I would just like to add to all the other comments that over the last couple of years we've been working really hard on our Dei initiatives to make sure that all students are inclusive and we worked really hard on that and I think it's something we're very proud of as a district thank you um I would also agree with everything that they had as a new superintendent comes to our district I would like that individual also to um work with encouraging students to stay in our Berkeley height School District rather than go to a another outside magnet school or private school I would like our school district to have some of the glitter uh and the sparkle that some of the others have and I know it's a long range project but someone who would look forward to that too to to help retain the wonderful students that we have here through high school okay thank you anyone else that's a good question thank you well they were great answers so thank you for that I really do appreciate that and I love hearing the things that you have to say and some of them have resonated very deeply with me um your special educa your pride in your special education program your commitment to diversity extracurriculars that really do make for a wonderful School experience for children and that whole holistic approach all beautiful things so thank you very much for for indulging me I appreciate it um and so what we are looking to do is to make sure that our students that your students in you know keep all of those good things in their educational experience while they're here in Berkeley height so we're definitely working on their behalf for their benefit but I will say this and you may have known notic this from my package uh that I submitted a million years ago I know it's been a long time trying to get but a well-run superintendent search is really good for the board it is the best professional development that a board can engage in and I know that from experience and I know board professional development I've devoted my life to it and this is really the best method for that we are learning so much about the district about best practices about Visionary approaches and different ways of doing things for your kids and those types of aspirational conversations that are really value based and that are based on what you want for your District have a natural tendency to bring boards together and that's been my joy to see so I wanted to put that out there for you as well um I found on your Facebook page we're better together and that's what a well-run search does and I am very pleased to say that that has been actualized in just about every search that I've worked on so and so there's a real reason why I love doing it um I know that you are um you are observed by your community your community demands transparency of you it is very evident but every research that I do I think that that's important so what I like to do when I first start working with the board is first thing work with your District to get a a some kind of a landing page on your website so that your community knows exactly what you're doing non-confidential information only um and What stages you're at that is very very useful so we do that first um and then it's swinging back to what the Board needs to do basically there's not an awful lot of legal requirements to doing this a board could do it on its own you have to you know you have to have a superintendent they have to have a contract of a certain length the ECS has to approve it all of those you know you know checklist things but there's so much more to it than that right which is why I think it's really wise that you're looking for a facilitator um but the first conversation is really about what the board is looking for and you were elected to make this decision so key decisions that you make are what kind of leadership qualities you're looking for what level of expertise and what areas of expertise um the type of experience um your timeline um when you'd like to have that person in um and of course you know your negotiated package you know your estimated compensation and all of that but that uh leads me to another question have you discussed a timeline for your search or is that still just something that you're kind of Tsing about we are prepared to take our time to do it right so we have yeah good excellent that's wonderful that's good I think we have so when in terms of timeline are you talking about how the process how we want to do it like conducting interviews and well I want to know what your your ending date is really your ending date when you want that person in the seat typically drives all of it but unfortunately some boards um do um value a compressed timeline based on getting somebody in the seat for July the 1st and that's probably not the be in fact I'm conf let me just say it's not the best approach it's just not this is a methodical and inclusive process there's a lot of voices around this table right and rushing the timeline is not a good idea I am happy to hear that you're that you consider it that way um very important and there are a number of different steps to go through I would also say and I say this all the time the right candidate is more important than the timeline because you don't want to be doing this again in 3 years you don't want to be doing this again in 5 years so if you've have to wait a few extra months or if you have to cut something out then you do it because you as the Board of Education are confident you've done your homework and you know that this is the right person for your District um but again your stakeholders are are super important all different stakeholder groups in Berkeley Heights in any District right um and especially here this has been a big leadup people are very curious and they have opinions on on you know what should the board be looking for and you need to know those so we do online surveys we do input sessions and I run the surveys through my account so there's assured confidentiality but you get all of the results um I come in and I do input sessions in person I work with you to see what days what times and all of that information is recorded pen and paper and goes into a very comprehensive report for you and that's what we use throughout the process um so that's pretty you know it's pretty basic but based on all of that information right and it's organized very I'm very proud of my reports um they're organized in a very userfriendly way because there's a lot of data and it's not easy for a board member to click a Survey Monkey link and try to figure out you know what you know that means between the different stakeholder groups so I do that for you I work very hard at this there is no one who works hard at these things than me because I love them so much right um but part of my job is to make things easier for you and that is what I do um and then based on that we have a candidate profile that I write the draft and you determine whether that's correct or not um and that's what we work off of from start to finish um you publicize those we get as many people as we can participating in those methods I don't think that's going to be a problem here at all um and then we we write the position advertisement and I love writing the position advertisement in your folder you will see on the right side I updated my um my references but behind the references I think are some samples of some advertisements that I've written with some districts that I have worked with um and what we want to do is paint a picture of what the district is like and what you're looking for so that's um that's a pretty fun piece of work and and very important I like five weeks as a lead time that's what I've always used and that works very well um and then we have a process in place for your applicants um you're going to have probably internal applicants you're going to have respondents to your advertisement um you're also going to have people who I have recruited and quite frankly who you may want to recruit but I do have a network of superintendents that I've worked with over the years um and I do get some wonderful references from them but also know the landscape of New Jersey public education it's not a very big world um in my former position I couldn't recruit the way that I can now because all districts were my clients right but now I'm working for client districts so if I see someone who I think is a great fit for a particular District I have no qualms approaching them and I'm very pleased to say in the eight searches that I've been working on on my own um three of the recruits that I had proactively reached out to are the ones who are offered the position so I have a good nose for this and I'm very proud of that and again I I think it's very fun but I also want to make sure that you understand how important confidentiality is to the process um it will derail a search if information gets out to where it shouldn't be so that is a non-negotiable confidential things stay confidential as you know from your ethics act training um but one um as they're applying I interview your candidates myself preliminary interview based on the outcomes from those input sessions and those input surveys because there's a lot of people who can do the job but who should do the job for this district and that's what those input surveys and sessions tell us and that's what I hone in on when I talk to your candidates typically on a Saturday but we can do it in the evening we can break it out however works best for the board you're the client we do What's called the pool delivery and that is when I give you electronic access to all of the candidates folders and files um what I ask for from my candidates are for a cover letter resume evidence of certification um a standardized application and their last two performance evaluations and I read everything and you can too I do not cut anyone out of the process you will know every person who applies for this search I think that's very important it's your District it's your board you should know these things however I do give you guidance I will have spoken to all of these people and I will be able to tell you what my impressions are I also as I'm speaking to them create a second report for the board and uh you'll see an example of an of an old one in your package where I take all of the criteria that you've listed in your advertisement and I weigh the candidates against how they measure up against your criteria those are the first bullet points on on those pages and then I do pluses and minuses after having reviewed their package and then I give you a synopsis of my conversation with them and I also tell you whether I recommend an interview or not but you select who you would like to speak with I recommend a three- round interview process that is a closed process with only board members um and uh we kind of work together on what that format is going to look like and all of that conversation goes on in the pool delivery so it's a lot of work but it's important work um I don't use a question bank I work with you as to what questions you would like to ask and what areas you would like to ask your your applicants about I can help you refine the language absolutely um but your interviews are unique to you um I'm there for all of the interview interviews I schedule them I answer the candidates questions about the interviews or setting them up I am the communication leaon between the candidates and the board you don't have to worry about any of that um and the other important thing that I do is I work to help shephered boards to consensus you probably know that you only need a simple majority vote to appoint a superintendent that's the requirement but for my searches and this has happened every time and this is really really important we are aiming for a unanimous appointment because it is very important that each board member feels very good about the person that they are hiring that might take a lot of work but that is important work and if we don't get there but we do have a majority and the board would like to move forward again there's nothing legally preventing you from having dissenting votes but this is not like a corporate job right this is very different so I call the candidate and I let them know that we have a majority but we do not have unanimity we have one hold out or two or whatever it would might be and let the candidate know that because I believe that a candidate who is to speak very directly who is worth their salt will not take a job with a board with a dissenting vote I just don't think they'll do it because your community needs to see that you're United behind that superintendent if the your community sees a fracture if there is a Fisher in the relationship at the get-go then that's not going to be a successful relationship and it's in your children's best interest that you have that solid relationship going forward that is very important so I help you get there right I am not a unicorn I don't have a magic wand but I have found that this process does work I'm I'm a good shepherd and then um after we SE after you select a finalist then we still have some work to do um background checks can be done through a firm you know at any time your candidates will check a box in the application that'll allow you to do that I don't do background checks you probably use the firm that you use now on employees or there are firms that I can recommend um but then we do a reference check and a reference check is done only on one finalist because only one person can get the job and I do not think it's fair and I also think it kind of violates confidentiality to start calling out there about candidates who are not going to get a position right it will compromise their relationship with their current employer but I am very upfront with my candidates that the board will be conducting a very robust ref reference check I have instructions I've got questions I've got a system but each board member will be calling a supplied reference and a non-supplied reference we let the candidate know that the reference check is going forward but it is very robust and we only do it on one person and that's important because if there is any yellow lights that come forward from that reference check those need to be addressed and sometimes the candidate may be able to explain those in a way that makes perfect sense and is verifiable but perhaps not and that's why you do the reference check um and then once we have the all of that done you'll enter into contract negotiations with your finalist I can give you best practices and advice but that's between you and your attorney and your finalist and their attorney um and then once all that is done press release appointed a at a board meeting in public it's a good feeling it really is and then afterwards I would come back in at your request within the first 90 days of appointment or actually of starting date to have um a board retreat really a transition Workshop where we talk about communication which is extremely important in this relationship to get down Norms in black and white that we can refer back to the entire time of the relationship also goals um short-term goals and I know that this board is looking into doing strategic planning um I don't know how long you'll be engaged in the superintendent search process but I would um ask for you to consider the idea of having your strategic plan after you have appointed your finalist because the strategic planning process is a marvelous way for your new superintendent to establish a relationship with the community and to establish themselves as the educational leader of the community so just some food for thought we can talk about all of that stuff um meeting norms and all of those things are part of that conversation it's a really good step and it's very important because it helps you get running at what I call full capacity um and in closing um I just wanted to note that there are some requirements uh for a successful superintendent search and those are trust in yourselves in your facilitator that we're doing our jobs in good faith confidentiality which we've mentioned and quite frankly I can't State more clearly um even if I say it 9 million times it's extremely important um but also open minds and open ears you know you need to listen to your candidates who will have prepared clo carefully for their interviews and if they haven't then that's a problem right um but also to yourselves the questions that you have for candidates the follow-up questions the questions that you have an executive session while you're discussing the candidates and also so I have experience that I can lend to you um I am honored to have done literally hundreds of superintendent evaluations with boards so I know what a successful superintendency looks like and I know what a subpar superintendency looks like and I am very happy to share that with you because I have worked with you know many many boards nearly you know I had 70 districts that I helped but I helped state wide so and every year you know you do that evaluation so I've worked with literally hundreds of boards on that and I did it myself so I'm happy to give you and I'm compelled to give you my insights but again you make the decision I don't make any decisions I am a facilitator um but I'm also very committed to the work and you need to be to it is a lot of work I am not going to sugarcoat it but it's wonderful work and if we can stick to to a timeline and stick to Norms involving preparation doing your homework paying attention being fully present you will have a successful search and I would be very happy to lead you through that I've had a very successful track record and uh I'm just really very pleased that uh I can say that and I can talk about this um as a professional so thank you very much for the opportunity um but that's that's my presentation and I'm wondering what questions you have have for me board members questions Mrs Penna uh thank you great presentation um so I know you mentioned that taking your time as a board was important uh so in your opinion with the many searches that you've done in superintendent uh finding superintendent what would you say is a reasonable timeline in which the Board needs to put aside for finding the the right superintendent you know you can do a good job in six months you really can take your time and and get all of the steps done in a relaxed manner in six months but it depends on what those months are right so you can't have input sessions during the summer right no one's going to be around um the other consideration is your election so we can't have um what's called a lame duck board appoint a superintendent you have to have that vote either before the election or after reorg so that's another consideration all of those moving Parts go into forming a timeline um what I can give you an example of one of the clients that I'm working with now we are just getting started we're going to do our surveys are up we have two weeks for that I'm going to be going into the district in I think in April a couple of days like three different days in April and May um and we are going to uh meet as a board afterward probably in June write the ad in June put the ad up in June let it run throughout July and then in July and August have those interviews and that might be a little tricky because of vacations and candidates vacations but we've given us ourselves enough breathing room to do that and we should be able to make a successful appointment before election day and then another question uh just to clarify I'm not sure if I misunder you did you say that you filter the candidates before we get them or do we get all the candidates that apply do we see everybody or do you go through the fil because I know you mentioned that you reach out to them and interview them so do we only get a filtered version of that or do we see them every single one who applies thank you for the question you get every single one and you get every single thing that they submit as well thank you you're welcome Mrs Dolly yes thank you thank you for the presentation um in the pool um which I assume are all the candidates typically how many um would you expect to have um as part of the search for us I think you're going to get it's hard to say right um but there is a lot of movement out there there's also a lot of competition out there quite frankly um I think for a district this size you will get over 30 applicants you may even reach into the 40s I am not sure but I'm going to say somewhere in my guess is somewhere in the 30s I guess is somewhere in the 30s and I I didn't see it here maybe I missed it but um where do you typically advertise um are you is it just going to be more in state or are you throwing things out beyond the state thank you for the question it's in my initial package right but I can speak to this no so the board Bears the cost of advertising and but it does not have to be an expensive Adventure expensive Venture um the New Jersey school boards association website is very valuable I highly recommend that that's $249 and njsba is a go-to for people who are looking for new positions njsba also does a real nice job of a pushout anyone who's ever applied or click that little box like yeah send me emails gets that feed um it's also on their social media so there's a lot of exposure that way a free service is to advertise with the njasa which I recommend I post that myself and that gets a lot of eyeballs as well njpsa for principles and also New Jersey asbo all of those are great locations for people to go and find um opportunities and they do um as far as National advertisement you could um Place advertisements with other states other state school board associations education weekly has a national reach um but I will I'll be pretty direct I don't think that that's productive because it's rare now remember I worked you know I remember talking to the field service reps about this it's very rare for us to see an outof State appointment for all of the searches that go on in New Jersey and I think that there's reasons for that um most C most boards and most communities want somebody who is familiar with their Community or a like community and most of the time that's somewhere local or in New Jersey also the New Jersey public education system is Stellar so we like to see candidates from New Jersey um but the other part is if someone is looking to relocate here or is willing to go to New Jersey for a superintendency and I have seen good out ofst State candid believe me they will proactively look on New Jersey sites so that every search I've done has had candidates from out of state and an out of state candidate does need um to be to be in compliance with the New Jersey First Act So within the first year of of employment they will have to move to New Jersey if they work for a New Jersey Public School District unless their grandfathered in um unless they get a waiver like if they already work for if they live in Easton and they've worked in Hunan County if they can make the switch from hunon County over to another District within seven days then they still are grandfather Den but that's another Wrinkle in the whole outof state mississipp situation sorry thank you for the presentation and it's great to know that you're our neighbor and you know a lot about our district um so I have like a three-part question how many searches are you currently conducting actively sure okay and what phases are they in okay let's go but so I am on this slide you'll see them I am Classical Academy Charter School is we've done first and second round interviews they just need to select who they're going for their third um Academy for Urban Leadership is pretty much done um they have signed the contract yet but my work with them is done River Edge I am still working with them uh on you know uh interviewing their C actually I just have my last interview today and I'll be meeting with them on Saturday for the pool delivery so we're still pretty early in that and over early stages we have the surveys up and uh and I'm collecting applications right now and Dober we just began we have the surveys up and I'm collecting that information for the so there are like three or four that you're in the early stages yes and if we take bring you on will you be so is it just you or do you have a team no it's just me the S is you know okay is looking forward you know but no it it's just me um the calendar is important but you know and getting those dates delineated but this is all I do I don't have a day job you know I don't Moonlight and I don't have other um things competing for my interest so okay so you can um in addition to the four active searches you can handle another one oh ABS especially since you're taking your time absolutely yeah I'm pretty confident in that okay and um in regards to the background check uh I think yes you basically recommend whom we go to yes and um do you do any ethics related searches or any settlements in the past um well an I'm you know an Ethics related search I'm not quite sure what that would comprise I will tell you that people's represent you know reputations precede them it's a small world right um do I do cursory social media checks absolutely and I encourage you to do that too right we talk about all of that but as far as some kind of confidential information or any kind of really digging deep that's best suited to a firm that knows exactly how to do that okay and you've never seen in your history an outof State placement I have never no not in all of the searches that I've done have we had an outof State placement we have interviewed a few people but again it was just a handful um and there are some I will also say there's some attractive out ofate candidates out there that I have been talking to so we may get somebody but you know okay one last question do you allow for any Community groups to interview prospective candidates or no no no I'm pretty firm on that um candidates expect confidentiality um so that's a a big consideration teachers union representative no AB no no but again I know you've heard this before and it's absolutely true those input sessions are really really important and assuring your stakeholders that youve heard them because that's another thing I don't want your stakeholders and I know you don't either to think that we're just collecting information and then we just did it so we could say we did it you know there's a document out there that we're going to keep referring to that has all of those perspectives reflected in it so thank you for the question Mrs conna question anyone else yes Mrs Stanley so I I know I went over your proposal so I just wanted to double check the the rate you give is a flat rate no matter how long we take or how many sessions need okay yes it is and thank you for asking that question as well I don't don't think that this is going to happen but let's just do a hypothetical where I give you uh you know a slate of candidates we go through all of them and none of them are really doing it for you right or let's say we pick first round interview candidates and we interview them and none of them are really there's just just don't feel good about it at any round if we need to close out the pool and reopen we will do that and that's included in that fee excellent thank you so much you're welcome okay Mrs Hela thank you so much for your presentation and it has been a long time but appreciate your time tonight thank you and I must express my appreciation to Anthony for his constant communication on how we're going to make this work so my compliments and thank you for your time thank you again I see we have some members from the community we have one more presentation is that okay to go ahead with that okay thank you good evening thank you so much for coming this evening I have hey thank you Dr TOMCO thanel please call me Rich thank you so much M so this is the most important uh decision you're all going to make and and I don't know um how long all have youve been on the board or if it's been a few terms your first term but not many board members get to make this decision so it's it's pretty incredible so uh I applaud you for that and uh I'm I'm hope you're as excited as I am I'm sure you are it's uh it could be a little scary at times right um definitely challenging you have U an incredible public here uh that is uh also invested in this so I think your decision uh on a firm to assist you or consultant at least uh is is probably right up there with this being the most important decision that you're going to make for for this community um and maybe in your board tenure so so I applaud you and I appreciate a few minutes of your time here tonight um to hopefully assist Berkeley Heights in uh in this incredible Venture uh moving forward into you know uh superintendent search I'm not really sure I I um uh and thank you uh Anthony for everything uh putting all this together for all the firms that you saw tonight or whomever else you saw um you know basically uh a public a Public Presentation like this is interesting right not too many places do it I knew some do uh there's some um you know interesting intellectual property and whatnot so hopefully tonight I get to answer some of those things that might not be in here if you have some some questions I I I've been in the parking lot for a while I didn't want to come in here and and I I I know uh uh Miss Hela very well so um you know we've we've followed each other a few times already so uh so you know it's uh it's interesting right it's a it's a it's a small Niche you have some larger firms and some smaller firms and some firms like uh like our firm or myself who do a lot of uh confidential Consulting um some boards don't use an actual firm they go out in public right they do it themselves but they always have a consultant next to them uh I've done many of those those are interesting as well um but however you get to the prize basically for lack of better term is is the best way for you and it's going to be your decision so if I may please sorry is okay sorry I'm taking up everybody's time already okay uh again uh thank you tonight just a brief introduction uh we'll start out with that then the search process and the best word in Board of V history is what transparency right and I know um maybe not this public but the public out there is uh always talking about the word transparency how are you going to be transparent and especially in a process like this uh you know you don't want to just make it seem like it's smoking mirrors oh we want you to come in for focus groups and all those other things so so I I think what what we bring to the table is something a little different it's called an ethnographic view it's a lot of listening it's a lot of qualitative um uh data that we collect uh and then what we do in the process is the things that we hear in the focus groups the things that we hear in uh that we see in the surveys that you know we do like to uh give out with with the assistance of the board members um we want to hear those things on interviews right we want to hear those things when we are talking to potential candidates so so that's the the biggest part uh I think that sets us apart is that transparency piece the true transparency not just saying it right everybody likes to say like oh you know um especially if you have candidates that may have been here before or internal candidates or people that you know are going to apply from neighboring towns oh we knew this was going to happen what a waste of money right well we know that's not true we know that you're doing the best you can for this community commity we know that you're doing everything possible to make that transparent uh process uh real uh and succinct and basically put everything to the Forefront so at the end of the day the the new leader he or she will uh be prepared to you know hit the ground running and and and and bring this District to the next level that's what we that's what we hope to do uh as your firm I know we will do that uh and that's utilization of the stakeholder results and all those other things that are that are important you know the data is important putting the data out there is important but the more important thing is explaining the data right what does the data mean like we could collect all this data we collect all these these uh answers from stakeholder groups from students from parents what does it mean like what does this answer mean I think nobody really explains that well but we like to do that we like to talk about it we really love talking to the students love getting into into the uh not the classrooms getting into the buildings uh especially talk to your sgo your student government organization uh other uh other groups that are uh Affiliated in schools because that's really why we're here right that's what the the most important commodity is our children that's why we're here that's why you all ran for the board uh and that's why you sit here uh 60 hours a month or more right volunteering your time uh we know you get a lot of money for it you get paid big bucks so uh but that's why we do it uh and then obviously your questions or concerns uh that's really what I want to focus not of your questions not not the presentation right okay so you you uh I'm sure you've you've heard of some other firms some of the uh big firms and uh you know school boards Etc all these all of these individual search firms are incredible and they will do an incredible job for you so why am I here tonight or what do I bring to the table that's different for 4M that's what we're here to talk about so 4M is a is a conglomerate of a few different uh organizations over time um and we deal with a lot of different things child advocacy we were one of the first groups to put together stuff for Hib we're now working with a new organization n organization called NJ on AI because everybody's afraid of AI uh so we kind of get into all all that stuff we also do executive searches obviously that's why we're here uh Believe It or Not we've done many um principal searches which you may say well who needs to search for a principal we have a a chief School administrator and a board that does that well sometimes these searches get a little political right so when you bring a firm in to flesh out all that data and all those things sometimes that helps as a con right maybe have some board members that are conflicted uh Etc uh we do referendum Consulting and believe it or not we did have some major contracts for Consulting with Major League Baseball uh the soccer uh professional soccer and hockey on uh basically you know drug testing Etc so um one of our our bigger things is uh strategic planning uh you may see some of our strategic plans done through uh through some of the colleges meaning that the colleges um I don't want to say who they are but uh contract with us to do strategic plans for other districts um and you know they put their name on it but it's really our stuff so that's some of our our special areas but our executive searches are um you know very thorough uh and uh basically the whole idea is to serve the board to help you make a decision because it's ultimately your decision um whatever any other search firm will tell you uh if they say it's their decision or their uh profer to kind of say this is the candidate it's not true um the whole idea is for us to package up the candidates put them in different we'll talk about in a second put them in different tiers for you and then help you make that decision right just because I think someone is great here you might say well this person is great but the second person you brought we really they really have something she really has what we think we need here it's your decision you represent 1 18th one nth uh of the community here they elected you uh so again uh that's what we that's what we bring and that's who we are so this is my slide that always get the oo and the O's from all the other firms that are usually in the back watching and they'll I'm sure they'll all watch tonight uh Ys versus the other firms you might be saying oh you know the proposal is a little different you know the the money is not as much like this is like what's going on right so well I tell it like it is for those of you who know me now for five minutes I'm one of those people I'm a straight shooter and sometimes people like it and sometimes people don't but it is what it is so cut and pce culture a lot of a lot of uh a lot of firms uh do do some of the electronic bidding right and you could ask any candidate who's applied for seven or eight superintendent jobs this year that some firms that have had those seven or eight um openings have asked the same questions uh cut and Pac culture um doesn't happen with us uh all of our application processes all of our uh questions are very unique to' be very unique to to your District uh there's no way to cut and paste anything even candidates that we bring in would have absolutely no idea what's going to be asked because I don't even know it's going to be asked yet because I haven't even spoken to you yet about those those questions um so that really sets us apart um for everyone else that's why I like to put it first there's no cut and past culture here um some members of search teams lack administrative experience now you may have people that are former board members former teachers that's incredible it's a great thing but I really don't need to put a search uh I'm sorry uh a board of education member on my search team because I have all of you here right that are going to ask those questions when we get to those rounds so I want to make sure before it gets to your level because I've never been a board member I've consulted with boards I've worked for many boards um and I think I'm pretty good at uh boardsmy uh but I don't really know the questions that you would ask because I'm not a board member so when we get to those rounds that's when you fire those questions off to make your final decision but before it gets to you you should have someone vetted through a superintendency right questions coming from sitting superintendant former super superintendent former executive cabinet members that's what you want when you get a package from any search from whether it's us or anyone else you need to make sure that all those hard questions were asked right have you ever let someone go have you ever put someone on a tenure charge how about an action plan have you done those things those are the hard questions and I believe it or not a lot of candidates have never done those things now that might be okay with you but you should have that answer before that candidate sits in front of you I would be able to say to you this candidate has never let anyone go in his career he might say oh okay but at least we know now okay that's that puts us kind of um you know I think at a a little difference than some of the other firms we have our our teams have extensive administrative experience I'm not saying that all the other firms um don't none of them have um administrators on there but I think you don't see um any of our teams uh have non cabinet members and the final thing is high cost of taxpayer I really don't know what the other firms charge I just don't think it's where we are um I don't I can justify all of our costs of 4M I I really don't know how the other ones are Justified I think it's a uh a pretty fair number uh it's a pretty fair consulting fee number if you take the hours uh in the propos I think there's a there's a you know what we say the average hours are it usually goes over that but I always say those are the average hours because I I deal um with our teams in realistic time frames um you know the report you get from us is going to be a a report it's going to have have some blanket things in it it's going to be things that are specific to Berkeley Heights but it's also you know a leadership profile I mean you know doesn't change change much right I think we want some of the same leadership qualities as you've had before uh as you'll have in the future and as uh other districts surrounding you will have so so I think if you look at the proposal there the costs are Justified um and we know we know you know basically time on task versus the hourly rate we know it's important to you uh it's also important to the taxpayers that are sitting behind me and are watching today um and again um it really still brings in uh what I feel is the most qualified candidates so that's what stands uh how we stand out I think from some of the other firms okay so there's a few different phases to the process without getting into everything which I could get a little more extent if we are your choice obviously would uh would uh graciously come back and get into every little detail here but we'll get as much as we can without giving away all the all the good stuff right uh obviously application process so if you were to make this choice and we were for as your choice let's say tonight you made the decision and I got the phone call on the ride home um we would work already uh starting tomorrow with you to put something in uh the paper local media Outlets to get an ad out there a nice ad uh something that's going to attract quality candidates uh and that would be the start of the application process um I'm I wasn't really you know we did um attenuate some of this because the original time frame was a few I think it was Valentine's Day I believe when we started talking about this so I don't know where you're at whether you're looking interim or you want someone to start right away so I put some stuff together um trying to get someone here by the summer so you know again don't hold that against me if that's not what you're looking to do I just really don't know that answer so we can we can kind of uh move move around with that um but that's why the application would go out which then would bring us to an initial screening process uh which would also include you know receiving those applications vetting them right away for certifications Etc I did I did happen to hear you talk about out of state candidates as you know there's a New Jersey first law which is kind of in limbo right now so you will start attracting some New York maybe Pennsylvania not connect Pennsylvania candidates possibly now because it is in limbo uh prior to that you really couldn't because you had to live in New Jersey unless you're were grandfathered in um so you might see some of that well you know we didn't really see much of that in some of the last searches that we did we had one or two um candidates that we had in our pool um that were grandfathered in but I think we'll see more candidates now in some in in this search um from from from possibly out of state uh and then obviously we recruit people that we think would be great after we come up uh with a leadership profile for you and some of the things that you discuss with us as a board um and then we send out this open-ended questionnaire um that's the first thing that we do uh basically there's questions to answer uh and there's a couple different um there's a couple different rounds of scoring and you'll see all the scores everything's based based on a rubric but the the rubric scoring comes into effect after we get all of the data from the stakeholder so that means coming back here having an open uh open Forum night uh we do again we do everything is ethnographic meaning um qualitative so it's it's a standing here hopefully a packed cafeteria full of people what do we need what are we looking for the board wants to know you know you all being here in separate rooms so you're not in aquarum in separate areas of the room so you're not standing together you know all those fun things that we do as boards um but listening and hearing what the needs are getting the feedback from the kids as I'm sitting in a pizza you know pizza party kind of thing with the sgo saying all right what's the next leader have to look like here what what should he or she bring what about a program what program are you guys missing you know the best thing about those ethnographic things for a board that that we bring to the board as well is that you get all those as data so not only do you get a an incredible superintendent when you're done but you get all of these things that the community is looking for that you might say you know we didn't know we that we that everybody wanted a robotics program that's a probably really bad example but you know what I mean um oh we didn't know that the you know that we wanted more pizza on Friday or you know something like that um so it's sort of like a two for one kind of deal but that's the most important part is getting that feedback to put together this rubric so what the rubric means is now we say all right we heard all these things from all the stakeholders now I want to see it in these open-ended questions these answers right as we put them together um and then we we basically do a a first phase scoring on on uh that way as we put all that together we're also looking for certain things I can't take credit for this bit Emoji by the way my my youngest daughter put this together years ago it looks just like me so I always give her credit she gets all excited when I um these are called pscl standards these if you've done any type of leadership courses in educational leadership um these are the things that we're looking for when we're trying to get these these um these responses back from the candidates you know your mission and vision you know the difference between m mission and vision the board sets the vision right the superintendent uh carries out the mission uh to give you an example the vision is like the vacation that you choose and the mission is how you're going to get there you're going to take a plane you can take a train what are you going to do right that's the that's the difference so we want to make sure that that your superintendent understands what what you're your vision is and how he or she will put a mission into place ethics and professional Norms I heard that talked about a little bit um I'm very very big into the ethics piece um there are there are potential things uh to talk about there there maybe candidates with ethics complaints or charges that doesn't mean there's anything wrong right as you all know as board members here it's very easy for someone in the public to say I don't like what you just said I'm filing an Ethics charge right next thing you know somebody ghouls you right um so again we look at those we vet those uh we want make sure that the ethical standards standards include um equity and I don't mean Equity as Dei I mean diversity and Equity I mean Equity is the left side or the east side of the townships and the west side of the town are they all getting the same things right are the the the the women's sports and the male Sports getting the same things that's what the leader needs to do needs to make sure that Equity is in place um and that comes with a professional Norm uh that they should be already aware of the uh and that comes with also with cultural responsiveness right right um are the cultures of the community being uh celebrated um you know um there's been a lot of issues right the past few years about different things with holiday not just here I'm just saying everywhere um you know are do we have a leader who's going to respond to some cultural issues that they're they're inevitably going to come up uh I think the the bigger thing is not how do you prevent those how do you respond to them right that's the answer that you want want to hear uh or you want us to flesh out for you before you make that decision those are the things that you that you need to hear before you make your final decision obviously curriculum and instruction um does the individual have any uh experience in that area and I don't mean just signing off on hey this is good I mean actual curriculum design uh and Engineering uh community of core and support for students again our our most important commodity that's why we're here right is there is there a core uh support Community for students here are there new ideas that someone's going to bring into Berkeley Heights that you haven't heard of before right um I won't give some of those away but I love the some of the buzzwords that everybody says and then I I love really scrubbing the data and making sure they know what those buzzword mean because a lot of candidates don't know what the buzzwords mean they just know what the buzzwords are right and I think that's important because not everything will work here right not everything works everywhere uh professional capacity of school Personnel is this a leader who's going to professionally develop your teachers your administrators your custodians or is it somebody who's going to say I have a whole team of people to do it right um we don't want that we want to make sure somebody's going to be able to um lead the district not manage the district the person that we would bring to you should be able to manage this District in his or her sleep you need a leader someone who wants to run through a wall for this person right um that's important and we we're able to flesh that out with some of our questions and our answers for you and the answers they give professional Community for teachers and staff that's basically what we were just talking about engage of families and Community uh one of the districts I used that I that I worked in I created a a community and engagement officer right when I first got there and you would have thought I was like stealing food from kids I can't believe you put this position in there and now it's like the greatest thing in that District because you know what it does is it takes some of the responsibility off the principles right so they can can concentrate on academics and it really makes those programs flourish right Community engagement is the most important thing we keep talking about oh parents aren't engag engage but what are we doing to engage them and I don't mean just bring food to a meeting so everybody comes and eats food like what are we doing you know are you doing stuff at every board meeting are you are you celebrating your kids every board meeting you know and you might say you want to but your leader the leader has to do that the leader has to bring to you we're going to celebrate these five kids who you know built a a bridge and you know we're just going to give them a certificate and say hey we appreciate you today so you know that's that engagement that we're looking for operations and and management facilities management is your maintenance team maintain the facilities do you know in your longrange facility have you ever seen your longrange facility plan don't answer maybe you haven't but that's not your job to even know that exists the superintendent should say well I know what it is the ba knows what it is and we need this and we need that and here's our plan right um You need to be working as a team so we need to hear that someone is familiar with this stuff not that oh I can be familiar with it no I think we need someone that's probably a little more experienced than that right um and again you might say as a board well we don't need someone we really like her that's fine but I would be remiss ified and tell you that he or she has no experience in that right that's what you're looking for in a firm again not to make the decision to help you get to the decision uh and then School Improvement and that's just not um academics that's everything right that's the the entire the entire School Community as a whole everything uh the extracurricular piece how kids uh uh take care of each other uh in a lunchroom all of those things right somebody should be uh willing to answer all those questions and have his or her own ideas so basically that's what we're looking for um when we create all this this rubric and we get you these answers um and then again we're going to take previously previously collected stakeholder data because go I'm sure the the the current superintendent now um Dr vley at some point has done a climate survey right so we want to look at that uh we want to look at maybe maybe you've you've done some surveys already for superintendent search on that I'm not aware of anything you have already we need to look at right whether we're the firm or not you all of these people that that filled this these things out and really took their time the teachers who filled that climate surveys you can't just say we're going to start over now we get a new firm that's that's not good all right that that's not being transparent and that's not real right if you really want to get everyone involved we have to look at some of the old data no matter how good or bad it is and some of the new data where we are now you know and you have to you have to take the good with the bad and and come up with this profile um and we we collect some new stuff at stakeholder meetings uh we we did one search we only had eight parents here I I almost fell off my chair I was like wow this is interesting but all the faculty like every faculty member was at the second meeting we had with only faculty it was at night and they all came back and uh it was pretty impressive you know I said this faculty really wants someone who's going to lead this district and of course we got we don't want somebody who's going to do this now you know all that stuff but uh but Hey listen you know I listened we told the board that and the board's like we weren't even aware that that happened you know so it really helped out and uh that superintendent is doing pretty well now he's in his second year all right so so here's some of the top secret intellectual data that I'm giving up now and this will totally ruin my career and our our firm will go under after I give this to you so all right so we we uh we get all these incredible resumés and and we look at this data and this qualitative data from all of your your Town's people and your citizens here and all of your stakeholders the students and everyone and then we come up with these three buckets or these three pretty bins whatever you want to call them okay so this is phase two so this now brings us to uh the initial interviews right and the the questionnaire scoring so we get a score from from the questionnaires that come in uh it's a formula that we put together and I could share that with you at some point um it's a few different things that we do formula wise so it's a fair process everybody's graded on the same thing um sometimes it's you know if we hear uh the stakeholders talk about um new uniforms new uniforms new uniforms and you know we see that in the answer I'm making up really ridiculous uh examples but you know and uh the answerers say new uniforms oh that's that's a great part of the formula right so that's what we want to hear the the questions and the an the answers to the questions should match the stakeholder data right um so then the with phase two we get these three tiers in these three box you have tier a tier B and of course tier C all right from the formula scores from um the interview uh as we get into the interviews now the initial interviews so everyone who scores in tier a and that would be a predetermined U number right so we'd say everybody who scores 90 and above again made that up um goes into tier a everybody that scores 85 to 90 goes into tier B and then anybody below that goes to tier C okay so if you saw tier B I'm afraid to go back because I don't really know what button to hit but tier B was a plus minus right so our suggestion to you would be let us interview everybody in tier a and maybe some of the people in tier B because they scored the highest on what the stakeholder data kind of put together um and what we really want to do is really want to concentrate on those individuals in tier a because they obviously matched what everybody's been saying right this score is so high that we want to talk to you six seven eight people it's usually well usually seven seven or eight people in tier a and then probably usually another seven in tier B so usually 15 candidates we would we would interview somewhere in there um doesn't mean we're bringing you 15 candidates just so we have information on 15 candidates um so that's a second phase in the process so now these these individuals would come in um and uh we would then have second round uh interviews with the ones that's that scored High we would then vet the final candidates with um re um not research sorry am I looking for references Etc not their references right because who gives you who gives the search company a bad reference is nobody right and if they did they definitely shouldn't be a leader anywhere um we're talking about people that we know in the field um confidential stuff obviously but I want to know the real stuff right because the reality is if you get a true leader to lead this community there should be something that you Google and find right you shouldn't Google somebody and say oh my God there's nothing here right because if you're doing you know any boss that does his or her job not everybody's happy right I always say 50% of the people dislike 50% of my decisions right when I say we're closing school today for snow half the parents love it half the parents don't right so so so there's all these different things out there um so we're going to find things we're going to hear things it doesn't mean that that's a bad candidate it just means that we want to know how they hand this right um it's important it's important to understand that so we do very very heavy vetting um through our little Network um and then uh we would recommend to you several candidates or or final candidates uh for you to look at however you can interview anybody you want obviously right we're just here to assist you we're not here to make the decision so you could say well the person all the way on the bottom you know we want to he said something about I don't know school colors we just want to meet him so we're going to call him in okay okay great after we pass it off to you I will stay on as the leak I'll be your leak consultant I'll stay on as your leak consultant I will sit here through your final interviews to to help guide you but those final interviews are your decision that that's that's your thing so I would just help you help guide you so at the end of the day you have all of our data all of our suggestions all the things that we did for you in a transparent process you meet some of those Cates or anyone you want and you make the decision using all of that data or whatever you want or or or don't want um don't let anyone tell you please don't anyone tell you that if you don't pick number one two or three you have to throw them out it's not true it is absolutely not true um the amount of time that we'll spend in your District even though it may be extensive is not even close to the amount of time that you spent in your District right so who knows better than you all right and that's what it comes down to uh and and also think you know because if there is a chance I may never see you again right also think that you don't need anybody to help you with the process you could just hire somebody yourself anyway right but you're you're going out there and you're saying we need need Professionals in the field that really have no ties or you know or those things to to help us get to this point so that's that's what we're about you know um so we handed you the updated timeline um today this is a pretty aggressive timeline I think it is absolutely doable you might say I'm out of my mind um if we are not your firm and you still want to use it by all means go ahead and use it um but I really do think it's doable some of the dates overlap and that's fine it doesn't have to be sanctioned or sectioned in a certain way um you know the advertisement and the survey development should all happen at the same time right uh I mean everybody knows you're here tonight everybody knows that you're going to make a decision soon everybody wants to get in this um cafeteria or wherever you're going to have it and now let you know who the next person should be so why wait right get somebody in here right away and talk about it strike while the iron's hot everybody's talking about it tonight everybody's watching you have people here everybody's texting everybody I'm sure right um so I think you could start as soon as possible you you put together this incredible process to find someone whomever it is don't wait you know like I said I don't think that um that your ba can get the ad out tomorrow because I think it would have to be in by tomorrow so might be maybe next week but I think as soon as next week you should have a nice ad um color AD with your logo on it and attract people and then all your Social Media stuff you put on your website um have the the company recruit um get their people in here and I think you you you can get within that 30-day recruitment period you can get a nice um a nice uh uh band of of recruits and candidates here I really do um so that's phase one April May you know again uh because we're kind of crunching it in because I really didn't know where you wanted to be uh the survey development the focus groups the screening rubric all that comes together and I keep the board president updated all the time I we do everything through the board president and the ba obviously um who then would you know uh share the information so that you're not in quarum uh we don't want to do any of that uh preliminary screening um we want to do all that first and second round feedback loops 30 days so I'm thinking that's in the May period May beginning of June that independent report presentation Etc you know if we were to be your consulting firm and you told me exactly when you wanted to start and when you wanted the person to start because you know most sitting superintendents have to give 90 days I see now some giving 60 I don't know how that even happened but it's usually 90 um you know if you if you if that person's a qualified candidate then maybe you can wait a little while um and then I could I would be able to get you actual dates right so these are just kind of me you know putting on the back of an envelope real quick to to change uh some of the original plans that we we had back from for February um the first thing let me just go back for a second because you know ethics is always a big thing in phase one before we even start uh I would obviously sit down with all of you I'm sure you've done this already but make sure I vet all of you that you're not any type of Ethics um you know um conflicts of interest that's a really important I've seen a lot of search firms get to the end of a search and someone in the audience says but your cousin's uh whatever how are you picking the superintendent they like well no I'm I'm not picking S I just sat in three interviews no you can't do anything right so if you're conflicted you cannot be part of anything um so I think that's a very important piece of it you may not know you're conflicted because a lot of people don't know they're conflicted um there's a nice little that the ethics commission uses to tell you if you're conflicted or not um um so I think uh I think that's also an important thing because you don't want to taint this process in any way and have a great candidate he or she put his name out there or her name out there and then you have to you know start all over uh you don't want that uh I'm not saying that anyone in the in the community would would pick up on that or anything like that but I don't think you want to be those people that are not you know being forthright so that's that's an important part too uh that's also something that we do um I think that's it I appreciate the time I really do I don't know if you have any questions thank you Dr TCO questions from the board Dr forer okay uh so how many uh superintendent searches have you personally done personally like um for um if you're talking about like confidental uh probably have assisted boards 15 maybe or so um but that's not in a 5year period that's over 25 year period uh we usually talk about the last three years we've done the last three searches that we've done that have been successful in my opinion all the super tends are still there uh middle sex L pacon and Waterford uh We've also done Linhurst we've done an executive search on Linhurst which is in Bergen County we've done Sparta which is my hometown so I don't know if that really counts but we've done Sparta uh and uh again I I've personally assisted as a consultant um but all those things are confidential um so I mean I can get you people to talk to if you don't believe that but I mean no no I'm not doubting it I I couldn't see from your uh yeah no no I just usually when we put the proposal together you presented I couldn't tell yeah most of the proposals asked for like the last year or two you know what's your current searches um okay you know I mean I I think just to be completely candid like we're we're not trying to compete with the bigger firms that do this all the time that's not what it is I mean you know hya great firm school boards incredible School Board is incredible um that's not what it is you know that's their that's one of their services to you and you're part of the school boards Association um I think our approach to it for certain districts is uh is is very attractive uh we definitely do it a different way um and uh I I think if you talk to some of those boards that I listed there some of those board presence they'll tell you that they were involved in the entire process um and some board members don't think they want to be involved in the entire process but you want to be involved in the entire process from the the creation of the ad okay all the way not just the approval of the ad I mean the creation of the ad so when we create an ad so if we were get to the the spot um the first thing I would do is I would send to the ba a uh a little sheet on different things and then from those things that you all fill out as a board we create the ad pretty incredible actually how it comes together that's my old English teaching days you know um so from that point on you you will feel involved as individual sections of your community you know one% of your one you know one slice of your community that elected you uh from the entire process so that's what we bring to the table so I just I'm sorry I went off on a tangent there okay uh and now you're on the SEC correct and uh so what would be your obligation to us if you had information about a candidate that is known to you because of your service on the SEC but is not generally known well okay so let's so SEC School ethics commission so you all know who I am right so I've been appointed to that uh by two different um Governors um so first uh if you were to appoint um us tonight I would be recused from anything ever for the rest of my life for from Berkeley Heights so you would never um I would never be able to uh you know hear any of your ethics charges or disclosures or any of that stuff not that you would have any of course but no what I'm getting it is no no just I just want to be clear on that how much would you so you would you would have confidential information because of your service right but at the same time you're advising us on things right but I would have nothing confidential that on on uh on anybody that would be a candidate to your um search you would have nothing and why is that well anything that anybody who came to the search would be public already it wouldn't be confidential no no they they apply through you correct you collect the resumés and now you're going to be scoring these things right and does the existence of an Ethics complaint factor into that scoring no because oh would would the ethics part well it be part of the Norms yeah but that wouldn't have anything to do with me being on the SEC no you would have confidential information no no no by that point anyone who's anyone who's applied for this position I would know because all those complaints are public when they're done no if you're they're might ongoing ones or there might be some that have never been discl oh if there's if there's an active if there's an active active or never disclosed oh I see what you're saying correct right you would know about that what what would your obligation to us be well what I would do then is I would I would uh I would make sure that the uh I I would tell you about the obviously about the the disclosure uh and then what would happen is I would make sure that our team is filled with uh I wouldn't be part of the interview process for the team but I would be part of the data collection and and whatnot um and i' have someone else vet those candidates okay and my my initial reading of this was that uh you were not going to gather any information from the community or the staff that was not part of the proposal but now tonight it looked like you were going to be doing that is that true no that's I'm sorry that's that should be part of the proposal yeah so you would you would gather you would meet with the community members correct uh or staff administrators whatever yeah correct stakehold what we call a stakeholder yeah stakeholder so you would be doing that's all included yes all right um and but it also looked like you were going to basically just give us uh your selections and we would not see anybody else is that true well you're going to get all the candidates and all their scores and then like I said it goes into those tiers okay and then those are the recommendations uh but but I have had board say would we would like to have person from tier C also be interviewed okay and finally you create the rubric after the resumés come in that seems uh problematic I would think you would create the rubric first and then well as the resumes are coming in correct yeah why do you why you why do you wait until the resumés are in to create the rubric well the rub the rubric is based on those basic leadership um leadership thing skills and uh or the priorities and also what we hear from the stakeholder groups uh so they would be they would be created regardless of what resumes come in but you wait until after the rumes are in to create it yeah I don't I don't see that I don't think there's an issue with that I mean uh well possibility of tailoring the rubric to the resumés I I don't um I don't know how that would be possible I've never been able to even I wouldn't even think that a teacher can do that with a class or a test any type of rubric um and if you're getting if you get 25 or 30 um resumés I think it's possible tale or rubric to one individual person unless you said something like I want someone with brown hair or something like that which is not even permissible we're not these are we not looking from Brown well I I don't you know although we could try but I mean I I don't really yeah sorry thank you any other questions yes Mrs Conor thank you for the presentation thank you for having me appreciate it um you mentioned at the beginning of your presentation that you work sort of in a in a variety of um uh services that you provide so I'm curious of your entire portfolio how big is the executive sege or CSA sege part of it if if yeah if you're able to share that information so we we don't again like I was saying we're not some of the big firms like we don't put out for every RFP or RFQ um there are we look for districts that are um you know going through transition um that are uh you know districts that are are you know that have boardsmy right so different things because because because I think that um what certain firms don't do and and it's interesting because you could talk to some of the bigger firms and the question that you should ask well maybe show one first but you know is is uh what's the recidivism or what's the you know the rate of people leaving right after you hire them right so um I think because a lot of that some of the bigger firms just you know you know take any district and there's some issues involved and different things of that nature um so our searches are um you know maybe four or five a year um or that we put in for not that we get all of them uh especially now there's been a lot of searches U and you know there are some uh new firms out there that are splintered off from bigger firms obviously and uh they'll do a great job too um but you know again our um you know what we like to do too is is possibly help a district you know move forward from just the search right so for example uh and a lot of the some of the other firms do this too but you know if we were to help you find a superintendent then we would hope that we could help you then do a strategic plan right just makes sense we have all the data already we've helped you collect the data um we have your superintendent uh and now we put together a strategic plan um you know for you so so that's what we do so we have it's like a a full service shop kind of thing so don't know if that answered does thank you thank you any other questions yes Mrs Dolly thank you thank you for the presentation just to pick up on what dip had said um why did you s if you don't if you don't do that many why did you choose us it's a really good question um well I mean you it's it's a great place so I'm familiar one of my earlier jobs was in dellan right so that's not that that's close to you but I I know um you know I know the area I know the surrounding communities and um I think that in a community like this uh I think when you're surrounded by communities that are also uh very proud of what they do what their kids do I think it's a it's a really interest interesting place to help choose the next uh educational leader um because it's going to be a very attractive District it is um and that's that's really it um I think that when you look at your entire package right so before we we put in and all that too you know your website um you know scores different things that you offer I mean it really is a it really is a great place you know um I think you know that though I'm not just saying it but you did ask the question so um and I don't I don't see why anybody wouldn't want to do the search here so that's really Mrs Ziri question yeah uh thank you for the presentation have you worked in Sparta have I worked there no no as a person you mean like no on their board or the SCH no no no no okay they asked me all the time I said absolutely not okay thank you you just live in spark oh yeah uh 20 years now and then you firmed helped pick the superintendent or Sparta no not the Super that was an executive so so as a parent this is just an interesting two second story as a parent the superintendent at the time asked me to sit on the uh High School principal search and as a parent knowing that he would get free consultation advice and then uh they couldn't the 35 people that he had on this committee which was the the strangest thing I've ever been involved with couldn't come up with a individual so then I walked out he called me back in and the assistant superintendent at the time hired our firm to do the search which I thought was interesting so instead of doing it for free then I we got paid and R in a search and uh that was that gentleman stayed through covid and everything um so that it was like a high school principal yeah that was high school yeah so so again that was it was a pretty a pretty um political search meaning uh there were a lot internal candidates Etc so you you know instead of having people inside you know on that you wanted to make sure you had someone on the outside do the vetting and and and give the board all the the appropriate one follow-up question I know you said there's a lot of proprietary information but if we do choose to go with you yes can we ask for references of not just your current or three-year active searches what who have you placed in the entirety of your tenure of talk yeah sure no no no would you give us something would you give the board that I I'm not sure how long has your firm been in business but if you've been in business for like two decades how many placements have you done of superintendent principles would we get that well the the Consulting piece that I've done I wouldn't say actually placed people I I assisted board so take lakan's a great example so L pacan went out on their own and I worked for them as a consultant so nobody knew I was a consultant but I was like in the corner right and they were doing the interviews and whatnot and then their first candidate run didn't work so then they hired the firm after that did the whole thing so so I wouldn't say I I placed or didn't place somebody the first time so yeah so my question is all your success stories through your firm MH if a district has chosen somebody in an executive position would we get that oh yeah sure I can yeah I can give you names to talk to yes I'm sorry I you meant like now no no no in the whole life yeah thank you okay I don't think we have any more questions Dr TOMCO thank you so much for your presentation good luck with everything and for your time this evening appreciate we appreciate it thank you good luck thank you thank you it is now time for comments from the public on any topic during this portion of the meeting District residents and staff are invited to address the board of education on any topic the board requests that individuals State their name and town of residence and address or School of attendance for the record the spe the specific action items they are commenting on and ask that all remarks be directed to the board president or designate not to individual members or staff the board ask that members of the public be courteous and mindful of the rights of other individuals when speaking specifically comments regarding Personnel matters are discouraged and cannot be responded to by the board students and employees have specifically legal rights afforded by the laws of New Jersey the board Bears no responsibility nor will it be liable for any comments made by members of the public if a matter concerning a District staff member is of Interest or concern to a resident the matter should be referred to the responsible building principal superintendent of schools or the Board of Education either by telephone letter or email although the board may not respond to items raised during the public forum all public comments will be considered please note that if any member of the public becomes disruptive during the meeting the board president May terminate the participant statements continued disruptions may result in removal from the meeting or adjournment of the meeting each speaker's statement will be limited to three minutes in duration Miss gabera so nice to see you thank you Serena gabera Berkeley Heights Columbia Middle School student the mascot change I identify as a tiger not a Highlander the Tiger has been the CMS mascot for at least 50 years maybe more it's been a tradition here at CMS to have the annual tiger drawing contest for the cover of the yearbook that has ceased last year within a year of Mr Kisa becoming our principal he gathered us together to tell us that we were now Highlanders everyone in the room was shocked students and adults alike this school year at a coffee in the IMC at CMS he told parents that he had spent the previous year getting to know the school I'm confused why he had made such a drastic change of the school mascot during the time he was still getting to know everyone and everything about the school I hated hearing make it a great day Highlanders at the end of every daily announcement on my last day of announcing I signed off with make it a great day tigers as a peaceful protest when I was called into a principal kisa's office the next day he told me that I was disrespectful and should have asked his permission I told him that he was disrespectful for changing the mascot without student or staff's permission his pie chart that he showed me in our meeting which was done from a survey performed by the previous principal showed showed only 45 to 50 people agreed with the change there are only 61 participants at our next meeting I showed him a pie chart that I had made based off of a petition that I passed around with 98% of students in favor of tigers having about 90 to 100 signatures staff did not wish to sign they did not feel safe it was clear from Mr kisa's in action that he was going to ignore the signatures that I got I proceeded to get even more student signatures in favor of the tiger the list now totaled to over 320 I then emailed Mr Nixon the Acting Superintendent likewise he said the mascot change happened before he became the Acting Superintendent but he was interested in the list of signatures and he asked me for my permission to speak with Mr Kisa I sent both of them the updated list of signatures along to with sending them to the board of ed members um I sent all these emails to the board and the only one to get back with me was Mrs baravia kirri who wished me well today I'm coming to you to urge Mr Kisa and Mr Nixon to look at this issue again and let us all know at Monday's meeting what they had decided posts have gone out on Facebook all comments are of confusion shock and question for the reason of the change the tiger sign in the front of the school still stands the tiger painting on the gym floor is still there and students still identify as tigers and finally since both of the men are telling me that this is done because of the previous sta staff members and the community still wants the tiger maybe we should put out this fire that has been burning since March 18 thank you thank you Miss Gaba okay are there any other comments from the public okay thank you the board will consider your statements and thank you for your civic responsibility and the actions that you have taken thank you all for your time thank you Helen gabera Berkeley Heights um I thought you'd be interested in hearing some of the comments that were on Facebook oh wow I was a Colombia tiger 8th grade loved it sad nobody seems to honor tradition anymore save the tiger love the tiger way to go Serena Colombia will always beat the Tigers as an 84 graduate of Columbia I support keeping the Tigers as the mascot Colombia should have its own identity Colombia school has been around for how long and the new principle changed it I agree tradition counts here I am looking to move back this year as a family tradition and our CMS mascot is gone so sad maybe we should reconsider every morning I have to hear them say have a great day Highlanders I hate it my yearbooks from the 70s have the Tiger on them my kids yearbooks from the '90s have the Tigers on them no reason to change it I've refused to acknowledge this change and have refused to participate in any fundraiser related to this change we are the tigers tigers forever I loved that the middle schoolers had their own identity and mascot my kids looked forward to becoming Highlanders at High School school I'm so tired of people thinking they can do whatever they want discuss with the town get feedback do what the people want you're there to make sure kids get a good education not to change mascots thank you Mrs Gaba any other comments from the public okay thank you at this time um we're going to journ to Executive session so let me read this whereas the Berkeley Heights Board of Education seeks to adjourn to Executive session in full compliance with the open public meetings Act New Jersey sa 10 colon 4-6 at s and whereas the uh open public meeting acts provides that a public body May exclude the public from that portion of the meeting at which it discusses matters related to those identified below matters rendered confidential by federal law state law or Court rule individual privacy collective bargaining agreements purchase or lease of real property if public interest could be adversely affected invest mment of public funds if public interest could be adversely affected tactics or techniques utilized in protecting Public Safety and property pending or anticipated litigation attorney client privilege Personnel employment matters affecting specific perspective or current employees be it resolved that the Berkeley Heights Board of Education adjourns to Executive session to discuss matters related to superintendent search firms and be it further resolved that the minutes of the discussion of any of these items will be disclosed to the public when matters have been determined and confidentiality is no longer applicable is there a motion to enter into executive session so moved so moved and seconded okay and the vote eyes I and nay okay okay we are turn to Executive session thank you uh roll call yes we are all The Voice vote eyes I yeah nay abstain okay um we are back in public session now and we need a motion to postpone the vote for the resolution for um declaring a search firm till our next meeting on the 18th 18th actually you have to move the resolution and get a second and then you move to table it but if nobody moves it it's just doesn't it's not considered okay so we don't need to do anything we don't need to do anything yeah if you didn't move don't need to do anything okay all right then looking ahead at our future meetings so we are going to be meeting on April 15th at 6:30 for executive session only only um can I I have a question on that Mr jovic can we advertise this it's an exec session meeting only starting at 6:30 but it will have new business yeah we have had special board meetings with exec session only where we have had new business so can we advertise it that way yes I'm out okay so I'm I'm requesting that the what new business would you like to discuss all the pending new business items that have been can you be specific um you have them Miss U I think RFP for attorneys we don't have to advertise new business new business is new business and you have them in the emails everything that we have been gracious enough because of the length of the meetings to be moved I said let's postpone it to the next meeting hours in advance yes I will give it to you 48 hours in advance to 15th but I would like the ad we don't have to give them to you right now it has 48 hours but I want the ad yes yeah we will yeah we'll give it to you yeah okay so April 15th an executive meeting and then April 24th is going to be a uh another executive meeting no no okay a public meeting focused on the budget starting at 6:30 p.m. and there going to be an executive session for that to interview possible inter uh interb candidates yes okay so if our if our executive starts at 6:30 :30 then when will the regular meeting start 7:30 7:30 right 7:30 7:30 that's that's the usual okay the regular meeting starts at 6:30 but you adjourn to exec session right you come back to regular meting start at 730 and on the 24th also can we add a new business section advertise that we will have new business and we will give it to you 48 hours in advance and be specific um if we are going to have more than one um person in that exact session on the 24th though I think we might want to just say 7:45 because we right like they're going to be there at least 20 minutes with questions public meeting starting for the public for the budget presentation at 7:45 right and that we have to start before 8 so that will give us that a little bit of extra time and we don't have people sitting and waiting like we have in the past so I have a concern with that if we are doing the special meeting just for Budget 8 7:45 is a little late I think we need to start start at 7:30 so we need to balance our time we have 1 hour from 6 6:30 to 7:30 I think we should technically start the public budget session at 7:30 not delay it because we will not have parents or if there is a working parent with a young child they're not going to be here longer I think 7:45 is the best time to give us some time to get at least two candidates in if we can we can take a poll here what time we want to start I think 7:30 would be ideal because the agenda for that meeting is not to interview we are agreeing to do an exec session but the whole idea of that meeting or we can do an exec session after the public budget session we can we start why not we have done it previously where if we have to interview candidates I don't think you want to do that at 10 p.m. it's not going is the public budget session going to go on till 10 I'm just going by past experience okay so basically I would I'm saying we should start the public session with the budget session at 7:30 Mrs Jolly would you agree to 7:30 or 7:45 I think that if we are economical with our time I I think a 7:30 start is um is probably better Mrs Conor 7:30 okay Mrs Stanley okay um Dr forer and Mrs Penna I don't mind either but going in past uh experience we normally take longer okay so we can start 7:30 and then we may have an extended executive session let's try to right we'll try that's the target that's our Target okay is there anything else on the on the on the meetings updates and on that for the 24th session we're going to add a new business we you have asked for that please be specific and let Mr Jess witz know what new business I I will do that all I'm saying is the advertisement is going out now right it's going to go for both 15th and the 24th special board meetings with new business and the new business requirement of what the specific topics are is 48 hours to each meeting yes okay for both the meetings for the 24th also no for the 24th when are you advertising and when do you need 48 hours in advance at least okay so I'm saying the topics have to be given to you for new business 48 hours in advance yes yeah I'll try yeah but I'm saying whatever yeah do we have a motion to adjourn so moved yes second second all in favor I MA okay thank you