call to order uh the board president will call the meeting to order at 6:30 p.m. meeting notice statement adequate notice of this meeting of the Berkeley Heights Board of Education was given as required by the open public meetings act as follows notice of this special Board of Education meeting was sent to the Star Ledger and The Courier news on April 12th 2024 and was provided to all schools PTO presidents the bhea president and posted at the administration building a copy was also provided to the public library and filed with the municipal clerk please stand for the flag salute I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all thank you Mr jtz could we do the RO call please Mr Kiri Mrs Bradford here Dr forer here Mr Hyman present Mrs Jolly here Mrs Connor here Mrs Penna Mrs Stanley here adjourn to Executive session whereas the Berkeley Heights Board of Education seeks to adjourn to Executive session in full compliance with the open public meetings acts njsa 10 col and 4-6 and whereas the P open public meeting act provides that a public body May exclude the public from that portion of the meeting at which it discusses matters related to those identified below matters rendered confidential by federal law state law or Court rule individual privacy collective bargaining agreements purchase or lease of real property if public interest could be adversely affected investment in public funds if the public interest could be adversely affected tactics or techniques utilized in protecting Public Safety and property pending or anticipated litigation attorney client privilege personel employment matters affecting specific perspective or current employees be it resolved that the Berkeley Heights Board of Education adjourns to Executive session to discuss matters related to interm superintendent interviews and be it further resolved that the minutes of the discussion of any of these items will be disclosed to the public when matters have been determined in confidentiality is no longer applicable may I have a a motion to enter into executive session so moved second voice I any Nays any extensions okay so move the time is 6:34 we're going to move now into executive session e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good evening it's 8 o'clock May I have a motion to return to public session thank you Dr borer second second thank you very much um the board is now returning to public session at 8:01 okay during this portion of the meeting District residents and staff are invited to address the board of education on any topic the board requests that the individuals State their name in town of residence or School of attendance for the record the specific action items they are commenting on and ask that all remarks be directed to the board president or designate not to individual members or staff the board asks that the members of the public be courteous and mindful of the rights of other individuals when speaking specifically comments regarding Personnel matters are discouraged and cannot be responded to by the board students and employees have specific legal rights afforded by the laws of New Jersey the board Bears no responsibility nor will it be liable for any comments made by the members of the public if a matter concerning a District staff member is of Interest or concern to a resident that matter should be referred to the responsible building principal superintendent of schools or the Board of Education either by telephone letter or email although the board may not respond to items raised during the public for all public comments will be considered please note that if any member of the public becomes disruptive during the meeting the board president May terminate the participant statement continued disruptions may result in removal from the meeting or adjournment of the meeting each speaker statement will be limited to 3 minutes in duration is there any public comments Serena Gaba Columbia Middle School Berkeley Heights hello again I was happy to have the chance to speak about the CMS tiger mascot at the last Bo Board of Ed meeting three working days have passed since then and people have been wondering about the outcome I emailed Mr Nixon see seeing the board members asking about the update I thank Miss Bradford for replying to my email uh did you have a chance to speak to the administration have you finished Serena uh no oh sorry you can yeah um I also wanted to ask Mr Nixon if he had scheduled a meeting with Mr Kisa yet and what they are planning to do about the tiger mascot and thank you all for your time on this matter um I am now done thank you Serena we have not had time to talk with the administration yet um do you know uh when that would be hi Mr Kisa and I will be speaking this week okay thank you thank you so much thank you for your time thank you thank you Ser I see no other members of the public so we will uh close the public portion of our meeting and open new business uh the first thing we have for new business is attorney RFP so uh looking at what we had done before for the attorney RFP we found that there were no irregularities in what we had done before we had the three is it three correct uh Mr secretary three uh firms apply six six firms apply uh one dropped out that is correct and one lowered their prices is that correct that is correct okay so at this time we now have six total six total one one that had dropped one had uh declined to not go further in the process so we have five attorneys uh applying for the position well that are that are currently still from the old RFP from September right okay thank you time yes thank you if I may so um the RFP from September again um there is no evidence that the um the board voted for an RFP that there was a resolution um you know to to have this RFP uh so I think we've spoken to Mr jusco a couple of times and you know and I've looked in any board minutes and there's no such thing whereas like the statute State the Board needs to approve an RFP so that that's the that's the one thing um and then the the second thing right was that um if you look at it the RFP had a start date of January 1st 2024 so that wasn't even the correct date for when we um needed the uh the start of that contract there was also you know certain steps once you receive all of the proposals that need to happen within um you know that follow but I I understand it was a transition period And I understand that we sat on them for quite a while and reaching out to the firms um that was again not really decided by the board even though um I can read this the statute further on that talks about um you know if you want to agree as a board to have certain vendors hold their I guess a proposal be made available for longer than 60 days because typically you have to um uh I guess appoint someone within 60 days of receiving the RFP so there were um now with respect to reaching out to them I don't think that was ever again agreed by the full board I think they came out from committee and it would came out as a concern that if we do go out for New RFP uh the prices may increase so the purpose of reaching out to those firms was to you know confirm I guess pricing or like what they might do if they did get a new RFP would their pricing go up go down and see the same and Mr jtz gave us that information so you know I think that you know at the time I this is an important position attorney uh attorneys are an important part you know of um our overall process so I think it's important to have the most objective um I guess way of you know picking the attorney and therefore I think that was maybe the intention of the RFP back then it just wasn't you know done properly and I think maybe if the start date you know perhaps we didn't get everyone who would have you know wanted to submit given that the start date was kind of January 1 as opposed to based on a school year calendar and there and there's nothing there's no reason not to do it right I know our attorney um had said you don't have to do it but if the first one wasn't done appropriately and we sat on these for so long there's no reason not to go out and get and do the process right and get all the of the objective you know I guess candidate like the best objective process of getting candidates to apply and take it from there uh the process was done correctly there was no need for a board vote in October there are two methods to do this um and we chose one way and it was still correct can you please um cite any of the statute that says um that an RFP can be issued without a board vote Mr j i not mistaken that was asked of M um David dler from porio we went to him to ask for a second opinion and he said that there wasn't a resolution that was required uh and I remember being in the audience and I remember that Mrs Penna had said for an RFP to be issued and she had stated that in it and when we went back to listen to it I know that Mrs oats had went back and listened to it and heard that Mrs Penna did say to have um Mr Smith and Mr Poo go and do the RFP for the attorneys also we've received multiple emails can I Mr jovic if are you saying that Mrs Penna spoke about issuing an RFP for attorneys in 2023 before the RFP was issued in September it was in September 20 can you please email us the dates because I have been asking in m multiple emails if you can give me any mention in the minutes there is nothing in the minutes there is nothing in form of a resolution I've gone to the if you listen to the board um excuse me a second the recording from that board meeting it was in there so can you email us after this meeting which meeting are we talking about which specific September meeting it's only there's only one meeting in September so it's got to be the 14th September meeting because that was the only that was the only meeting I think the question that in my mind is how is it possible for one person to say let's go do the RFP without really having the board um debate or agree to it every I'm gonna say just listen to the meeting I'm what is I guess the question is if everybody said to go ahead and do so all right went through the proper channels it was described by school boards it was described to Mr dler it was described by even Mr wiel the same thing everybody all agreed the question is what's what is what is still the question it's everybody said it was done properly if you want to do if you want to do an RFP again be my guest that's all I'm saying what you're still trying to say it's done the first time it was done it was done improperly and we're trying to say it was done properly can we get a written Memo from these two attorney firms that I'm going to read it for you one last time this is what I got from New Jersey school boards so if instead of saying he said she said and we are saying this Mr Nixon and Mr jco if we can get a written Memo from anybody that says that in 2023 of September our board followed njsa 18a colon 18a hyphen 4.3 competitive Contracting initiated by Board of Education resolution process Administration 47a in order to initiate competitive Contracting the Board of Education shall pass a resolution authorizing the use of competitive Contracting each time specialized I want to make good or Services I want to make note that it was a professional service not competitive Contracting and that's what they're alluding to did they give can they give it to us in writing I will ask I don't know whether they'll put it in writing but again why would we spend money on this when we know that the process is for rfps right the business office knows when contracts are up and they go out for rfps for other things this isn't the first time they've gone out for an RFP and we know that we've been told multiple times that this process was followed it was done correctly that right we've we've looked at this by multiple people to say that we have done it correctly and there's nothing wrong with it so to say that it's improper is inappropriate because it's not true because my my you feel that that that policy right like you keep reading that same thing and I've seen multiple emails where that's put in there but we've told can can I answer the question no because I'm still talking and you I I would like to finish so just because right you guys believe something doesn't mean that it's actually accurate right and coming up and saying that it was done improper is wrong especially when you've been told by multiple people people that there was nothing done improper right it doesn't need a resolution in order to become an attorney RFB but we also have these people waiting for us to make a decision we also have to decide by the time that our attorneys contract is up otherwise we pay per day for that attorney to stay with us per day I don't understand why we wouldn't just move forward on top of the fact that we already made this motion and it failed with the full board so that is why we are continuing to move forward right it failed you guys are trying to go around committee the committee also said that they wanted to reach out and see if the prices were still there Mr jtz did that after the motion failed and they are all still on board with us now going and doing the proper thing which means to interview them and hopefully get them on board before we lose our attorney contract and then we have to pay per day an attorney to be here so if you're done I just want to say this the reason why we need to make sure that we need a documented proof is we Berkeley Heights has a history of violating bidding laws B 20 we have corrective action plan I'm speaking unsp speaking Ina it's not in the corrective action plans are on our district website 2010 2021 these have come from the New Jersey Department of fed I have put them I've given the articles in the email which everybody's on so just to be proactive and have due diligence I think we need to do the right thing is there even if it costs us money money that be should be spent on our district and our students I don't want to pay per day for an attorney when all of these attorneys are perfectly viable options and we can interview them we still have a process to interview them to ask them the tough questions and find a new attorney can I ask a slightly different question yes Mrs Gana are we still in the window to actually run a new RFP process by the time our existing contracts run out we have 60 days no we can if we did not if we started a new RFP would probably come back in the mid miday so we have from miday till end of June to choose the firm You' probably have until June 20th because I believe that's the next meeting in June if I'm not mistaken June 20th June 20th is that one that's right Mrs Jolly you had a question well so if so I'm just uh going back and uh to 18a right uh -45 right part e and I know Mr Jessica goes for reply but I just want to read it and say like you know a party says Award of a contract so assuming the RFP was you know done appropriately right it says Award of a contract shall be made by resolution of the board within 60 days of receive of the proposals except this is the part that's important except that the proposals of any vendors who consent there to May at the request of the Board of Education be held for consideration for such longer period as may be agreed right so if we're saying we had issued the RFP and that was done fine right there was never a request of the Board of Education there was never an agreed upon time period to you know consider them for any you know finite extended period of time so this is the part that is also sticky for me we never awarded a contract so we didn't do anything in in terms of that so um what what I'm I guess I'm trying to say here here is either let's just move on if we're going to do a new RFP we're we're kind of beating a dead horse at this point let's just if we're going to do a new RFP let's just move on we we're trying to make a point that what was done was wrong when we've we've basically asked three different attorneys to abanti whether what was done was wrong or right it was it was right when we've answered or asked three different attorneys if you want a new RFP let's just move on instead of just keep going on and on and on and on and on and on that's what we're doing here the full board voted it down right and that then gives us permission to reach out to the current rfbs right the whole board voted it down right so and and yes I I I was there I know but I maybe did not fully appreciate the you know I believe in doing things you know following it things exactly as they need to be followed and in reading the part e and like and let's say if we concede if we listen to the meeting and we say okay it was issued properly the response to the RFP was not done properly and it says so that's and I I don't want to and I don't want to be you know caught like interviewing candidates that you know submitted for this RFP when we didn't you know really follow the exact steps that you know the statute say we need to follow we followed the exact steps Dr forer did you have a question or comment for discussion I don't know what happened here I'd just like to get on with it and uh get this done um I don't think it really matters so much at this point whether it was right or wrong as as getting PE getting an RFP out and uh getting it done getting people in and interviewed and getting somebody selected isn't that the important thing just get it done get it done let's get it done because the full board voted last time to move for forward with the current uh I what I have a problem with this I don't know there was no resolution to move ahead with anything I'm sorry but there was a motion made to go out for a new attorney RFP and it was voted down but that doesn't automatically mean that there was any consensus to move forward with what we've got either I I disagree I think that is very clear that if we don't want a new RFP and we know that we have an a contract about to be expired that we would want to start inter I think that's pretty clear I'm sorry I just took that since it was voted down I just took it upon myself just to go and get that information so if it was going to stand that way at least I had that information available and if you wanted to move ahead and come into the office and start looking at them at least it was available that's all I did and you keep saying you want the board to make this decision but the full board did right the full board voted on that motion and it was voted down but there was no motion made to move ah with what we've got so if this is about if you would like we can make a motion to move ahead right but you're trying to say that the board isn't being involved in this but we have been involved in this we asked your opinion right when the motion was made you've made your opinion now but the reality is the full board has looked at this the only thing that the full board has done is voted on the resolution ution that was made to have an RFP or not beyond that that wasn't a resolution it was a motion a motion was made a motion was made and the board voted on it beyond that board the full board did not do anything else to be clear not in 2023 not in 2023 there was no motion to put the RFP process in fact it was not discussed explicitly in committee either it just happened I don't again I think we've talked about that over and over it what you're saying needs to happen I was on the finance committee last year there was no committee conversation explicitly that said we are going to have an RFP for the attorney firms maybe I'm mistaken but I believe you missed a couple meetings in the fall so yeah I remember that they had trouble scheduling meetings um so I do think that maybe there could be some room for that I I'm not on the have you seen minutes to the effect where this was discussed let's not just talk in hypotheticals well you're also talking in hypotheticals never fact that there was there was no discussion this is not in the minutes and again we don't want this being made right behind closed doors like you're saying and it's been open right we have an RFP out this is not a hidden agenda but we also have a contract that's about to expire Mrs con at the last uh finance and Facilities committee was it not brought up to go ahead and ask the attorneys if they would update their things the question that was brought up in the finance committee the this year was would the pricing remain valid there was no again because committees can't really make a decision on anything it was just a question to go and get the data but beyond that we couldn't have said let's go do the RFP we didn't so so what you said is not correct accurate right like that's not exactly what was discussed at committee is there any other discussion yes I would like to move a motion yeah I would like to move a motion to issue an RFP for attorneys this year thank you is there a second second okay I would like to comment that this um is being done without the full board this has already been voted down when the full board was present I do think that this is poor formality trying to um kind of abuse that person not being able to come to the meeting um so if you want to say anything is done improper I do think that this is being done improper especially when this motion has already been um voted down I will answer that question after the vote is done is there any other discussion hold on I would also like to know how much is it going to cost us per day to keep the attorney um on per day because as you know right like even if we get the RFP out um it's going to take us some time and then we have to get these people in for interviews and we saw how that went with the search firms it took us three months um so I I am concerned that we're not going to meet that timeline since a motion was made can we get on with the no this is we have the ability discussion no disc Mrs Jolly um made the second Mr jich we're just discuss I would like to know how much are we going to spend per day on keeping the attorney firm if we don't make the date of the so first of all I would like to understand where is this notion coming that we have to hire or continue the current attorney we need a board attorney it's it's by law Miss Bradford if we are governed by Robert's Rules we are not interrupting any other board member you interrupted me earlier Mrs Ziri go ahead there is I don't understand where this notion or hypothesis is coming about that we have to pay the current attorney a daily fee we have a board attorney we have an alternate board attorney and our current board attorney has said multiple times publicly that we can end a contract anytime at will with the when we when the board wants so if there is a concern that the current RFP even though Mr jovic has just confirmed we are we have enough time we will get the responses back by miday the current contracts for the board attorney and the alternate board attorney end in June 30th so basically miday to June 30th is 45 days if the board really wanted to work for the district for the students in not spending a daily fee we will make it happen in 45 days so I don't understand where this hypothesis is coming around I have not seen it from the board president I have not seen it come from a previous superintendent Acting Superintendent or the assistant superintendent so I would really hope the misinformation that is being spread that we need we are going to pay a hefty fee per day is called we have enough time 45 days we make it happen or we be proactive and say we extend the contract by 30 days if we think if at the end of 40 days within those 45 days if we are unable to come as a board on a decision of interviewing and selecting an attorney thank you Mrs Stanley is it inaccurate that we would have to pay per day it is not inaccurate so does anybody know how much we would have to pay per day and I also want us to think about what the schedule already looks like in May and June we have the teachers coming in for teacher appreciation we also have multiple meetings in June so I do want everyone to think about um the calendar because it is very hard to schedule things in those months that's why we do it so far in advance but can we get an idea of how much it's going to cost us per day I don't know so we got to reach out to the attorneys but it is correct that we would have to pay per day to have a board attorney on board I I can't answer that question okay any other discussion Mrs Mr well I mean that information would be helpful to know I don't know if that's we can get in time for Thursday just just to know the validity around if there what's the exact date if it's truly triggered a perum and what does that cost look like and um with Sai that we ought to be able to move at a certain Pace but I also think we need to look at the reality of other things moving at certain Pace that have that have taken time so so at the last meeting right it was said to end this um interview at 7:30 I said let's do 7:45 that's more realistic we end it at 8 so we do need to be realistic about the fact that it is very difficult to get done um so I think we do need to be realistic about it again the motion was made and I know that we don't have the votes for it but I do think that it was wrong to do when you know it was already voted down by the full board any other discussion okay Mr Jess goitz vote Miss Kiri could you just restate the motion I'm going to say this is a request to do an attorney r issue a new RFP for attorneys and when the RF so I'm hoping that once the motion passes okay so it's just to restart the RFP process process yes and logistically I don't know what was done in 2023 but before an RFP is issued I think the board administrator and the administration Mr the Acting Superintendent will ask for Cree criteria that we look as a district in attorneys and those need to be included so I'm hoping that the process will be followed there's a timeline would that be so is it the vote um yes well you were just having discussion so I think that's if you say that we now need to come up with criteria for the lawyer right that's not going to be that we can issue the RFP tomorrow so right like what would the process look like if you right if you want me to give feedback on what I think an attorney should be for the Board of Education that after the motion passes if you heard my answer Mr Dr forer asked is this a motion to well I need to know what I'm voting on because if I if we're now not going to do the RFP tomorrow I think that's going to be a very different situation okay so you can do the RFP tomorrow the motion was plain and simple issue an RFP justed that you want to have criteria now that you want to have a voice on the criteria that we put out the motion was just to open up the RFP there's no criteria continue with the vote Please Mr juskowitz Mr Ki yes Miss Jolly yes Dr forer yes Mr Hyman no Miss Connor yes Miss Penna Miss Stanley Miss Bradford no motion passes so Mr jessco witz if he will open up the RFP tomorrow without criteria I have um to followup I I would like to respond to one of um Mrs Stanley's question And to clarify to you I believe Dr forager has shared a questionnaire on RFB for attorneys with you Madame President are you sure can you confirm you have that would you reshare that please Dr forer I don't remember getting it um certainly yes I'll should can you send it the whole board yeah send it to Mr Nixon and did Tom I think you did I don't remember I don't remember who I said it did I'll tell you what everybody look at your mail you'll get you'll either get you'll get it tomorrow yeah as long as yeah and to answer regarding poor form or poor formation or of doing a vote like this I think it's poor form with all due respect Mrs Stanley for a previous board to put in or amend policies like 0164 for asking for a 48 hour requirement during the lame duck session knowing very well that the board structure might change that is po Form This Is We are following Ki I'm going to stop you right here because we're not talking about 0164 at this time we just had a motion no Mrs Bradford there was a comment made about poor form and what is poor form is and Mrs Airi I'm trying to prevent disagreement among the board members so I'm going to ask you to please your comment yes the board president needs to stay neutral and I wish you were neutral when that comment was made so we are not in perform we are abiding by the district policies this is I'm going to ask you to stop now thank you um we now have a second item up on our new business uh remote Zoom access for parents public to participate Board of Ed meetings and to be able to talk uh sorry be able to ask questions we did ask um Mr Marx and uh uh Mr Nixon do you have some information on that for us okay uh Mr Marks you had some information on that also in the email I have it up if you needed to yes would you share please uh so essentially in order to enable REM access at the zoom meetings uh we do need um Zoom licenses we currently have that it is not in the budget for next year we have Google essentially Google's version of that budgeted for next year there are some variations between what Zoom offers and Google offers but um uh that's just what we currently have um the zoom participation in the board meetings would just require some maybe some uh alterations to like the physical setup here um and possibly like an additional uh TV to be implemented um uh and then we would have to look into essentially like the physical setup where that's going to go if it goes in this wall then the board members on this side might have difficulty seeing it just things that we would have to figure out [Music] um securing the zoom to only Berkeley Heights uh is not possible so whether it's Google meet Zoom anything uh that was just one question that was uh given to me and then let me just see It'll be helpful to have somebody moderate the meeting um Miss Bradford whether that's yourself or somebody body else just to uh basically decide like if the participants in the zoom raise their hand just whose turn is it to speak who's coming off mute who's gonna have their camera enabled and so on and so forth um so that way that can uh proceed in an orderly fashion and I have reached out to surrounding districts I have not heard back from any that do allow for remote participation from Zoom um you know I only heard back from a few so I don't know that it's not happening I just the ones that reached out to me the ones that responded said that they do not uh allow for it oh thank you just to let the public know Mr Marx is our technology coordinator and Mr Marx uh would it require hiring somebody else to be a monitor or to updating a contract for someone else to be here uh that would depend on like who the moderator is um I believe uh it would be difficult to staff an additional technician to work the board meetings I am here because we've had those difficulties uh getting members of the tech staff um who are available and able to to work these meetings um so I I think that would be a challenge um it it would depend on on basically who that moderator is going to be um and if it if it's uh somebody on the board itself then obviously we wouldn't need to um if it's not then perhaps yes uh but and then part of it also like depends on what the uh how forgiving everybody is if it just takes a few more seconds to get everything set up for somebody to um to participate remotely it's obviously not a a uh you know professional production to the point that you would see like in in TV production so uh it part of it depends on just what the what the expectations are and am I correct to say that there's no way to um know who is coming in on a zoom it could be somebody from Berkeley Heights could be somebody from Florida we have no way to do that is that correct that's correct is there any other board member with questions for uh Mr Marcus yes Mr Heyman yeah I guess just a related question um we obviously during covid as many districts did we we did the best that we could here in other districts um the notion of Zoom bombing is my question uh how do how do you control for that how do you is that is that put put on a moderate to handle is there I mean there there incidents that anyone could quickly Google to find out the how how horrible that has been when it's happened how would we avoid that if we went back to zoom and and if not uh I guess what what what are the things to keep in mind with issues like that uh Zoom bombing would definitely be a possibility um we wouldn't necessarily have a way to prevent somebody from just joining the zoom they could put whatever name they want and then we give them the opportunity to put their camera on and that's like that's that what they if they uh do something um we'd rather they not on camera like it's already happened um so just so you know that this did go to the technology and Communications uh committee last year um and we had a discussion about it and one of the big concerns was uh maybe Zoom bombing but but the legality of um what we would then be responsible for having on this right like we can't prevent people from being completely drunk and saying whatever they want on there because we are now in people's homes right and and just the legality of that right and and that we don't know where these people are coming from and what they're going to um do because they're in their homes and they feel more comfortable so I do think that the legality is something that we need to think about about can I another discussion yes Miss so I I hear what you're saying I hear what you know pamel I saying I like to try to look at it from the other side where we've been talking about how do we engage you know how do we engage our community how do we incentivize them to participate in these meetings because we we do want them to you know show up we do want to hear from them directly and while you know there's a risk in in everything we do I look at the upside of actually enabling a channel that will enable people that will help people join a meeting I think we had somebody emailed today you know who single parent clearly is pressed for time in terms of showing up personally to the meeting but given the avenue to join via zoom and the ability to ask a question it just feels like people would appreciate that feel more empowered more um more the fact that the board is listening to the concerns of what they're saying you know have this firsthand conversation which is more powerful than the oneway email I mean we get emails yes but it's always more powerful for the person to come and share an experience ask a question give positive feedback you know give constructive feedback so I look at it on what is the upside what are we not doing by sort of thinking of it purely from a what can go wrong perspective I mean it's a public meeting something could happen here what are we going to do about it well we have ways to shut that down right we it says it right in there that we will we could do the same thing for zoom and you know we I I'm try figure someone's living room I'm still talking I'm trying to figure out what would stop us from enforcing certain just like we do in a public meeting here what would stop us from enforcing certain rules in terms of behavior in terms of you know people announcing their names people you know telling us where they are calling from Berkeley Heights residents Mountainside residents whoever that may be to actually participate in this conversation which I I think it's valuable to hear that there's a lot of information that could be um ingenuine on Zoom also yes well I mean I guess again thinking back to what happened last time we can say for example we're going to prove it and a policy would include cameras on someone says my camera doesn't work camera's off who's in the room how do we know who's in that room there's no transparency that's my concern we we lose we lose Insight at least here you know who it is and I hear I hear you on inclusivity I do um I I think we've done a decent job of allowing people different ways to ask questions be it email or send someone as a Prof foxy or obviously come if you can come it does it allow for everyone no it it doesn't it never did though um I also do do think and I one of the reasons I was hoping we could couch this until there's a technology committee meeting would be to get a better feel for what surrounding districts are doing because I I'm not aware of any other districts locally that are but I'd like to I'd like to dig into that more so I can do you have something Miss yeah I just want to say so there are some uh districts that are doing the the zoom access I look at it as when we look our at our community engagement as we went through covid right it was a bad reason for that to happen but it happened and the amount of people that were actually logging into the meetings being a part of the conversation I thought was really valuable and I wasn't on I wasn't on the board at that time but I imagine for the people sitting at the table it was hopefully valuable for them to listen to people directly and have that interaction so that's a great point and I think when you think back to my first year on the board we had people come to the meetings right in person um but they don't come anymore and in my circle I can tell you they don't want to come to board meetings they want nothing to do with this they're afraid that their name's going to end up on social media and I can tell you they don't even want to email the board some of them tell me they don't want to email their principles anymore they don't want to email the teachers anymore because they don't want their child's information getting out in the public so I do point of order is this relevant to the discussion topic brought it up Mrs Stanley has the floor yeah is this relevant to the topic Mrs Stanley has the FL so again right I I do think that we would all love if Zoom would be the perfect Avenue um but I I know that the township isn't doing it for the same concerns that some of us have um I know that we can't control it I know from a legal standpoint when the technology and Communications uh committee looked at this um it was it was like there was no win right we were going to spend a lot of money on technology and zoom and all those other things and then we had the legal downside on top of the fact that I think there's better ways to really communicate with people I really do think we need to do some of these small round coffees I do think that we need to find ways to engage people because I'm telling you they don't want to come here on the mic anymore um and then be put on YouTube and then clipped out of YouTube right and I I think that that's scary for a lot of people and I think that they have other ways of getting the information and they go and they sit down with the principal because they don't want to write the email and they don't want to write the board right if you are honest how many emails do you really get from the public like we don't get that many anymore my first year we used to get emails like frequently not just from the same people um but we don't get that anymore it's changed and so why I do think that this Zoom could be really great if it was perfect and we had ways to control some of these other things I don't think that's really the problem with the communication I don't think that's really how we're going to get people involved again I think that's not the correct answer Mrs zurri you got a comment I I just I just have a followup I don't know if we have actually a good idea or maybe you maybe you do we just don't what would it cost well how much money have we already invested in the equipment so far and what would it cost us on an annual basis if we were to enable you know with a certain structure around that can you if you don't have a number I totally get it if you can email it to us that would be great and Mr Marks is there a better alternative than Zoom um well so we're looking into Google meet for next year instead of Zoom just because it would come as part of like the Google workspace for Education plan which has a lot of educational benefits uh cyber security benefits and then it like they have their large meeting up to 500 person um uh capability that basically matches what we're using Zoom for so since we're already looking into Google for the other options and it comes with it it's like why why pay for Zoom as well um if we can just save uh uh save some cost there so you're saying we have another alternative with our Google platform to uh do something like this in a webinar without using zoom and the um uh webinar is a little bit different um and that that's where that that's something that only Zoom has or there might be like Cisco might have a product like that as well I can't speak to that but Google does not at this time um that gives you the ability to like promote uh an individual user to be on camera and to like have their audio and whatnot and you might like put them in the um uh like up next sort of and so that's what we used uh during covid sometimes when um we had like parent night or like special events uh during the the um the uh during the school year we have that license we have the large meeting license the reason why I use the large meeting currently is because it doesn't require any participants to enter an email address to log in the meeting and um just with it being a open and public meeting I just appreciated the less of a barrier to entry for anybody to just log in to view the meeting um so Google's offering is is akin to our current like large meeting setup that that we use through Zoom would that be a little more secure the Google I think it would be the same um essentially what we can do is limit like the only way that we can limit access is uh just to people with District email addresses which we obviously wouldn't want to do for a board meeting um so it's going to end up essentially open to anybody uh I think the only security that we can really do is limit people logging in from specific countries at this time um so but that's and even that like somebody using a VPN could get around that so that like but that's that's the only capability that we have currently to limit who is logging in unless we required members or um uh the public to register for the meeting ahead of time and like get get approved ahead of time which I um anticipate we wouldn't want to do Mr Heyman did you have a question I was just going to ask about the the you mentioned webinar which a lot of universities have moved to as sort of a a middle ground or or something along those lines where it it it's full access anyone can technically join ask a question but there is I think the moderated feature it's not everyone's faces on screen if I recall and it's it is a someone has the role and responsibility of saying we have a question from Jordan Heyman and you know they can ask that question and and speak speak the words that have been written into the either the chat or however it's being used that's it's common for for a lot of uh a lot of virtual these days I don't know if that's if we have that now and could and could adopt that at some point as well so we do have that capability was recently used for a information session that was held at GL through the counseling department where I think they wanted some uh anybody who has particip ipating to um uh just not have their names U public and uh uh able to be seen by everybody else in the meeting and um and that's uh that would be an example of just where it that particular uh format works really well um it could be used for these meetings as well it just requires people to enter the email address when they join into the meeting whereas currently just how we have it set up you click the link it loads and then you're in and you uh I think you get prompted to enter a name but most people just leave it at iPhone or just their initials or something um and that's really the the big difference right now and why we use the large meeting instead but it uh there are certainly advantages to each so quick question are you aware of how much was spent till date and I know I've looked at the resolutions last year there was a resolution to pay for the technicians it was 36,000 an odd just to have a technician man the zoom the 35 an hour yeah I think it there there was an total amount yeah no my so to Dip's question thinking like do you know how much has the district spent since 2021 in buying the equipment moving the location from Colombia to GL to retrofit or fit these we we got a TV which Mr mckin must have said like over a dozen times was delayed due to covid and so we've got the equipment we need and there was a committee formed with parents and board members and the board president and I believe we got an email going back and listing all the meeting minutes where they discussed and debated all these exact very points how are we going to run hybrid meetings and so do you are you aware of how much was spent or if you since 2021 till now buying all this equipment on the zoom license paying for the technicians do you have a number so I don't have a number I don't know how much I spent I know that um the board passed um something earlier this year so that the technicians are now paid an hourly rate um for working the meetings um and then uh just again if like the the current setup that you have here you have the projector right here um for when there's a presentation and we've all seen how it's pretty dim and uh challenging to to see and um and I know that when we zoom in for the audience at home it's challenging for them to to see the projector so that TV was installed for uh for that Zoom functionality but in order to make make up for this projector and also the location of it where it would be difficult for any of the board members over here to to see that one we now project to that TV and the projector and so but Mr Marx previously when there were presentations made board members sitting at the main table always got up like when I was on in 2022 when there was a presentation being made at CMS all that the four people or the five people sitting at the central people Central table did was got up and sat in the audience until the presentation was made it's a simple fix so all I'm saying is some of the questions that are being raised about security how to run hybrid meetings how to enable the functionality how to I think that work has already been done we have minutes we have documented evidence and I think if we if there was a will the administration can definitely go and look at the vouchers on how much has been spent since 2021 in trying to enable hybrid meetings now to answer the question about the local like our neighboring districts I've attended over six close to seven meetings at Madison and anybody can watch them on YouTube you don't have to actually go there and watch it what happens is they have hybrid participation it happens in Ridgewood I can send you a list of districts in New Jersey that have hybrid and townships Madison that I have personally gone to what they do they allow I think the moderator is either the president or the superintendent whoever is whoever wants to choose and they change the rules if they want to because it's just for the public portion of the citizens hearing and they basically first give precedence to anybody that's here that's in the room present in the room physically so they basically ask the people in the room to come up and ask their questions then they go for a second round they actually allow them to ask ask a second set of questions and after then the whoever is running the meeting which is the presiding officer or the superintendent says if anybody doesn't have any additional questions we're going to switch over to people who are logged in Via zoom and then they read out they have the same rules or specifications that are being told ground rules and then they ask their questions they actually all sometimes actually some of them come back twice so it was a very smoothly run meeting I think there were every time I went and attended that meeting in person there were maybe five or six people there were sometimes two people in person but there was actually an a the participation bya remote by parents and there were some seniors who spoke that was higher so we can definitely make that happen and I believe it's about time after spending thousands of dollars promising the community and in light of the board goals that that were passed in 2023 to improve Community engagement that we do this and then at least try and if you want to work out the logistics of it after we once rulle this out it's definitely doable we are very competent people here and we can learn from Madison we can learn from Ridgewood we can learn from other districts that are doing this thank you for your comments Mr Heyman we have a a technology committee meeting tomorrow morning I'd like to make a motion that that committee discuss with Mr Marks ask further details get his opinion see if we're in a position to make any decisions bring it back on Thursday full board and if we can put it on either as new business or as I guess would be part of new business I guess this is a long motion that would be my my motion to to I guess take this conversation put it into a committee which I think is the proper for and then make a recommendation as a committee which I is part of as well do we have a second second okay any other discussion yes Mrs Conan so my takeaway from this conversation is it's it's about more about having the access to sort of have a two-way conversation if you will less about necessarily it being Zoom specific I mean I uh I I love to hear your you know point of view on we have a whole Suite of Google products so if we can get the the same functionality out of one of them and it's effective it's better to do it that way I think that's great it's less about being kind of married to you know Zoom as a platform it's more about how do we make sure we have sort of that two-way communication access for people to participate from remotely yeah yeah thank you uh nothing else I just want to say we have thrown this to technology committee for three years it's about time we do something else you know it's about time to come up with a different a suggestion if this was the very first time Jordan I would be the first one to work with you but this has been going on since 2021 Sor I mean In fairness well first of all I haven't been on technology committee this tomorrow will be my first meeting just saying second far as I'm aware there has not been any any public discussion as a board and there's not been a motion made as a board to to adopt something more formal yeah so well there's a motion there's a motion on the table so again it's Mrs Dolly um so I just uh you know you know obviously concerns about security and issues ETC did did any of the things that we discussed happen during the time of covid when we did have the hybrid meetings because I did watch some of the um yes enough the budget discussions um during that time and it seemed to go Mr Einstein seemed to call people it seemed to go smoothly so I'm just wondering if this is something that um we've experienced uh before during the hybrid uh meeting if anyone yes there were some things I attended pretty much all the meetings during pandemic I haven't seen any Zoom bombing or anybody like sharing something that wasn't supposed to be shared that was people got angry that is that can happen here that has happened here but no incidents of Zoom bombing or anything un irrelevant to school boards was published or posted or even talked about on those meetings so I think we should move to voting on this so there was a couple legal uh issues that did come up during those meetings um we also ran into a lot of problems where people would repeat a question that was already answered um earlier in the meeting because they weren't on the zoom meeting earlier in the meeting so it ran into a lot of like just asking the same thing because they just got on so it it wasn't the most efficient time again the technology and Communications committee can discuss all of that um with the administrators and what they feel um is appropriate because again we're going to have to have someone moderate moderate this and again it has to be someone with power to do so right we can't have someone in the technology department doing that that's not really fair to their responsibilities um now when we were all on Zoom right Doug reinstein was also on Zoom so he was able to control it a lot differently than when we have an open meeting like this um but I think this is right a discussion that the technology and Communications Department can definitely have I know we've had it in the past um so I think with a new board we can definitely have it again I'd also say that I one of the other things that came out of the technology and Communications meeting that we had last time on having um uh Zoom participation was that the equipment is current being used by the high school so it's not that the that was solely being used by US that they do use these items um because we were concerned about the money spent previously prior to us um coming on the board and it is currently being used by that's what we were told at least that it is currently being used by that doesn't prevent us the cafeteria is currently used by the GL we still use it so did you have a question Dr B yes yeah if we're going to vote I'd just like to restate what is the motion I think what you want I think what you're looking for is a motion what's called a motion to commit to committee that's part of Robert's Rules but whatever it is I'd like to clear clear state is that what you're doing technically yes that a motion the technical term sure yeah it's a motion to commit to committee with instructions so I'm I'm asking you know for a specific statement of what EXA ly is this that's all yeah so the the motion is to allow for the committee meeting that's that was priorly Prior scheduled previously scheduled which is tomorrow morning 9:30 a.m. uh of the technology committee to take to tonight's discussion bring it as an item on that agenda for tomorrow morning come off of that meeting tomorrow morning with a report for the full board and a recommendation for the full board which I seen a reason why we couldn't do on Thursday the 18th our full meeting thank you um Mrs Dolly one more just one more um I I I think there's a lot of uh questions that were asked that I'm not sure you'll be able to um you know get all answers to by tomorrow morning um so I'm not sure if there can be a recommendation forthcoming um but sorry I'm not following well there's there's an open question that Mrs Connor raised about what is the actually cost to do this because he mentioned that would be a zoom additional Zoom cost if you do it yeah so there there are certain uh budget implications for doing this we'd have to know the cost of it sure so so just to double click on that a little bit the question relas irrespective of Zoom or not I heard that there is some cost for technology in the budget I I think the the modified question that I would have is what will it take how much will it cost to make sure that we turn on that functionality that'll allow that two-way thing doesn't have to be Zoom it can be you know the Google Suite of products I think that's great so that's that's the yeah I I heard Mr Mark saying in the current budget we are budgeting for the Google meet Google Suite so we might have to move funds from there if you wanted to do Zoom I don't care if it's Zoom if it's WebEx if it's Cisco if it's tomato tomato for me what I am caring for since 2021 is allowing for remote participation by parents and by public and anybody who wants to participate in this meetings so if the budget is already in the current budget there is money allocated for Google suite and if you that will allow for remote participation so be it doesn't have to be zoom and that's what my motion will say after this one goes through thank you okay thank you so we have a motion on the table Mr Heyman stated it um Mr jtz could we vote Mr Heyman yes just a minute the the Roberts rules is you're supposed to do [Music] alphabetical I usually do the motion I do the second and then I do everybody alphabetical that's the way I've been doing it I I realize that and I I'm just pointing out does it make a difference well if we want to follow Robert's Rules then that's what we do but I can't tell you what to do Mr Jess Woods please you Mr Kiri no you said no yeah uh Dr vorer No Miss charie yes Miss Conor yes Miss Bradford yes motion passes okay thank you I would like to move a motion I'd like to make a motion to an open remote Zoom access for public participation at all board meeting starting from April 24th 2024 right Excuse excuse me but actually it's proper motion it's totally different yeah we just voted on it was referral to committee yeah so right the new business does not include that so we only have the new business of uh remote Zoom access and we voted on that already no we did not vote on with all due wasar M Bradford I'm talking to you I'm responding to your question the motion that Mr hman put together was he was going to have the technology committee look at remote Zoom access that's perfectly fine he can take a look at it he can come back with the recommendation I'm going to it's not me it's we it's a committee yeah yeah I have a doctor's appointment so I might I might not that got rescheduled so I will try to attend all I'm saying is that motion was to send it to the committee take a look at it and come back with recommendations my motion is the person who actually requested for the new business item to be added on is to enable I move to open remote Zoom access for public participation at all board meetings starting from April 24th if this passes we open it up we take his recommendations and blend them in there are totally different topics and this is nothing improper about it the motion's on the floor can I have a second can you just repeat that for me please because I I didn't get that so you you're enabling what now I move to open remote Zoom wait move to open I can email it to you Mr jovic I move to open remote Zoom access for public participation at all board meetings starting from April 24th 2024 please uh just send that to me so I have your proper wording please is there a second can I get a second second um I don't believe that's a motion that we can do because having it opened up on this Thursday would require April 24th is not this Thursday Mrs Bradford right a week from this Thursday would require certain uh procedures and things to take place that we don't have the time for that is not a reason to deny a motion the motion's on the floor it has to be voted just one point on the motion right the it's not zoom access to be clear it is just remote access Zoom is a very specific technology the motion was Zoom I thought the motion was [Music] Zoom because we just talked about this being anything yeah any technology but you cannot as like if Mrs the technology that we bought specifically to enable hybrid meetings that we have been having for the last two years if we cannot turn it on in two weeks do you think you're going to turn on switch from Zoom to Google by April 24th so if see once we enable able remote participation you want to switch the suite if if the district makes a decision The District administration and the technology committee that I am on comes and says hey we have budgeted for Google we are switching to Google and then we have to open the remote participation all I'm saying is this is what we have right now this is what we are using guess my if there's open discussion um my only point would be we've had a discussion for 30 minutes I last I checked we have committees there's a reason for the committees I think um otherwise might as well dissolve the technology committee because we just did it right here what's the rush if we can't have a discussion technology committee then I don't understand what's we just raised 5 10 12 I think legitimate issues that that warrant further conversation I'm not the expert here I don't think anyone at this table is but I think we have one expert and I'd just like to get questions about cost and complexity security comparison between Google are there other platforms WebEx whatever else other platforms you mentioned Sai have we vetted this fully I don't know what's the rush be my question the rush is this is the exact same response that we've been hearing from Mr reinstein then Mr dequilla then Mrs Penna and now this is Mrs Bradford let's let's send it to a let's send it to a committee let the committee come back and people keep asking asking people send emails emails have not been responded to so the russes this has been pushed into a committee for far too long I saw two emails today because it showed up on the new business I I personally and I can look save every single email and document I have not seen an email outside of s your emails about this topic in maybe two years I'm going to go look overnight when I have Wi-Fi but I don't see this as a hot issue that requires April 24th activation that's just my opinion there is there were there was an eight member committee formed with parents and board members and teachers yeah in 2022 and they all recommended for hybrid access hybrid meetings spending the money that we are currently using and now we are not using and we want so came up for a board vote so it isn't it isn't like the board this is the board vote Mr Hyman so you have a chance to vote now do we have further discussion a vote on starting zoom on April 24th motion not starting Zoom Mrs Bradford remote participation that's not the motion you said Zoom m currently use zoom so what is the why will I motion to anyways he he he has the wording okay Mr jtz Mr Kiri yes Dr forer yes Mr Heyman no Miss Jolly no Miss Conor no Miss Stanley no no Miss Bradford no motion fails okay if there's no other business I'm going to move for adjournment do we have a motion for adjournment so moved second second okay meeting is adjourned at 913 pm thank you should should have been a vote though right