##VIDEO ID:OFE8E9-gc5U## we're gonna boting is in progress so we need to start good evening everyone welcome to the board of adjustment Township of Berkeley Heights we're located at 29 Park Avenue it is 7 o'clock on the clock and we have August 22nd 2024 this is the public meeting please note that this meeting is being held in conformance with all regulations of the Sunshine Law and the open public meetings act adequate notice of the meeting has been posted on the township website and sense of the newspaper of record the agenda has been posted on the township website and the bulletin board fronting the municipal buildings at least 48 hours in advance of the meeting the agenda items will not necessarily be heard in the order listed and the meeting will not continue substantially past 10:30 p.m. Regina may I have a roll call please Mr Sullivan pres Mr coell here Mr deia here Mr Ringwood here Mr Sylvester here Mr C regrets M West Austin Mr Degan here Mr torus here and Miss wolf and Miss wolf and we are just going to take care of a couple of housekeeping items the adoption of the minutes from July 25th 2024 Mr deia did you have an opportunity to review the minutes from 7:25 24 yes I believe everything's in order I make motion to accept and man is second by Mr Sylvester I second that motion and all in favor on the adoption of the minutes who are eligible and we are moving you wen't right I was John were you jack were you Joe was not Joe I know what okay we're okay Regina with the yeah okay and moving on to the adoption of resolutions we have application 24 to 0012 Philip and Michelle brodkin located at 33 Campbell Lane block 507 lot 15 this is in the Park Avenue District um Mr coal did you have an opportunity to review the resolution 2412 the read was in order I'll make a motion to accept thank you may have a second by Mr deia second and a roll call on 2412 Mr Sullivan yes Mr Coello yes Mr deia yes Mr Sylvester yes motion carries 4 Z thank you and we have three orders of business this evening we have two applications for review and we will be engaging an executive session uh we have our first application will be item number 24 011 followed by application 2419 we anticipate the first application to be approximately 20 minutes to a half an hour and the second application to be approximately 30 minutes just to have people gug a timeline with that said we'd like to introduce Dan rer at 157 Pearl Street BL 905 lot 6 in the R3 Z and M wol will provide some additional comment at this time thank you yes I did the notice it was sufficient as formed content so the board does have jurisdiction to hear this case thank you very much and please let the record reflect West has join the thank and Mr reer uh thank you Mr chairman thank you to the board for hearing us tonight I S you in yep would you like to swear in the entire teamone and someone just scored a goal out there we all swear our pray tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth excellent thank you if you just give us your name and address as you testify uh Dan rard 86 Mountain Avenue Berkeley Heights New Jersey I just wanted to give you a brief overview and then I'm going to turn it over to my professionals but um as you know we're talking about 157 Pearl Street um the house is currently on occupied um and is in somewhat of a state of disrepair um it's a 55 ft wide lot the house the current house is approximately 670 Square fet uh so it's a little bit of a all out of the past so to speak um the lot being 55 ft wide the home itself the existing home is 30 ft wide so you can do the math and you can see why we're here tonight in terms of its you know setback violations but my professionals will obviously go into that you know in more detail um so we have a little bit of a dilemma in the sense that whatever you do with this property anybody does with this property you're going to need a variance so that's why you know we're here tonight our objective is basically to clean up the property rehab the house put an addition onto the house and basically bring it into 2024 and make it available to a you know a new family for Berkeley Heights it'll end up being a four bedroom three bath three and a half bath home um and we don't want to necessarily intensify the conditions anymore we've taken as many steps as we could not to do that uh but of course with the width of the lot we don't have much Choice um with that what I'm going to do is I'm going to put on our architect Scott Nichols first um followed by Mike Lon ofama our professional engineer and planner so with that I'm just going to introduce we do have a few questions before we your professionals engaged can you tell us a little bit about the character of the neighborhood and what's unique about this specific parcel and the structure that exists on is significant it it's a street that I would consider in transition um there's a lot of uh rehabbed homes and newer homes on the street uh so it's a typical situation where you've had a lot of updates occur it's it's a beautiful Street uh in fact when I had the property first appraised my appraiser came down the street and I noticed that he was driving very slowly and then when he got to the property I says Tony what's the matter he goes this is a beautiful Street Dan I says yeah well look at this thing and um it's uh the character of the house right now Ian I can give you some pictures uh if you do have some in our packet okay there you go uh you can tell that currently it's overgrown as I said before it's only about 600 square feet two two bedrooms uh one bath um it was a family home for many years uh Anthony that lived in there up until recently he had some health issues and he's now an assisted living so the house currently is being unattended uh is overgrown um and I think is completely out of character obviously for the for the neighborhood is the house uninhabitable in your opinion as a developer yes there looks like you've got warning signs on the house was that direction of that was your I didn't want anybody going in there because it's vacant and um I didn't want anybody going in there it's uh light about Pearl Street and it may be related to this yep and um recently you know I was advised that the vines are overgrowing the front steps and things and the back steps and it's becoming unaccessible um so I'm just waiting for the green light to go in there and clean it up thank you very much we'd like to hear from your professional this evening okay I'm going to introduce first Scott Nichols our architect particular you'd like the uh easel here uh why don't you put it on Mr Riker's side so the general public can have an opportunity if there is any interested party from the general public that does not have a view of what our engineer is going to be presenting please feel free to relocate your seat to a more comfortable position okay just for the record your name and address then if you can qualify yourself sure uh my name is Scott niichel ni h o l um I am the partner at tekon architecture studio um we are at uh 1,222 Route 36 in Haslett um we've been there for about a year and uh prior to that we were in um cor mammoth uh I obtained my masters of of architecture from NJIT um then worked in Prince University at larger firms until 2017 when I was able to get my license and start my own firm uh I've spoken in front of many planning and zoning boards but unfortunately have never had the pleasure of speaking here your license is in good standing yes thank you go ahead thank you we accept and welcome TOs uh so my firm was hired by Dan to take this small um home currently in disrepair uh and bring it up closer to the level of the rest of the street um the rest of the homes are are uh are larger than this obviously larger Lots so we couldn't kind of match the scale um but we felt that we could certainly match the uh the character um and I believe we did so um by by adding an addition in the back on that first floor essentially more than doubling that size where we end up with 1,536 square F feet and going up and creating a second floor on that same um footprint that floor being 1,400 around um so the existing house is going to stay in its entirety and you're going to build up and out but you're not splintering it down you're keeping the existing home uh yes we're certainly there's going to be some Renovations in the front more of a grand stair you could see the that that front um uh Gable there kind of creating a nice mass and bringing the uh scale of the of that front facade down but um yeah we will be leaving the existing there not going out on the sides going back with the house uh creating more of a traditional layout um first floor living room dining room uh kitchen great room upstairs uh as Dan mentioned four uh bedrooms and uh two and a three B bathrooms upstairs two and a and one and one a half bathroom downstairs so the home is structurally sound just not inhabitable the home is structurally sound but obviously we'll be pulling off the ceiling joist and uh Rafters Foundation is in good shape we once we start pulling things out there may be some stuff we do have to add supplementing some of the structure um but the idea is that the existing Foundation is in good standing and can handle one more uh floor above and the rear obviously will be all new construction thank you the uh the rear of the the house will be the entrance to the garage um which our our engineer will talk a little bit more about uh regarding that entry and driveway that'll be wrapping around it but again it was very important to get that garage in the back to keep up with the the kind of um almost like over a large cottage style that we're going for at the front um to to take up half of that elevation with a garage door or two garage doors uh was just something we were trying to avoid I think that's it for the The Rundown re a rearload garage two two Bay garage that's correct yes with a mud room there um for an entry directly into the home you'll be using utilizing the existing foundation on the the structure that exists today to the front of the house will you be Excavating any portion of the new addition to accommodated basement or is this a slab on grade the garage will be a in the back will be a slab on grade um we will be Excavating obviously out for the footings around there the existing front has a basement currently um that would would that would remain but no additional excavation would be happening in that area not to say that with new codes we may not have to again supplement some of the structure based on you know supporting existing floors and such the square piece of the driveway in the back what would you say the width and depth of that is that's probably better for our engineer to speak about he'll be talking I imagine about some um keeping correct tur radius and uh and such and the entry into that garage look Mike Mr C looks like it's approximately 24 by 25 but will allow and afford opportunity to be engineer regarding the size in response to your question single family house that's correct one Kitchen yes and um hi can you confirm height sure um right now the height is uh 32 fo1 and that's measured from average grade to the top of the Ridge and obviously we're keeping we're going to be keeping that if that slope has to change by a you know a half an inch we'll be making that work so the way the municipal land used guid line works it's half the distance between the gutter line and the ridge so the 32 feet to Peak actually brings this house down to a T an of approximately 28 right that's correct thank you um I think that does any member of the board have a question or comment at this moment and we will open up the meeting to members of the public at the conclusion of the testimony uh Mr coell Good Mr Degan no Mr storus if you believe uh just on a driveway I don't know if you were want to answer it it looks like on a CL plan it kcks over the property l a little bit and then in your description says it will be line um that is correct and our engineer will be going further into that it's not best for me to speak but that is correct thank you Mr ring thank you I'm good thank you Mr Sylvester I'm good M West I'm okay thank you we'd like to move on to your next profession good evening my name is Michael lonz zaama that's l a n Za f m I'm a licensed professional engineer land surveyor and planner licensed in the state of New Jersey I'm a principal with the firm of Casey and Keller Incorporated 258 Main Street milboro New Jersey I've been licensed as a professional uh land surveyor and engineer since 1984 and as a professional planner since 1985 I appeared before numerous boards throughout the state um I appeared at this board probably 20 years ago uh so it's it's been a while and um my license are all current and uh I'd love to be here thank you thank you very much we we accept thank you very much uh Miss wolf I just did have one point of clarification um the 200 foot radius yes in this case considered both Berkeley Heights and new Pro notice for both thank you very much thank you you're very welcome um uh what I have to my left is a copy of the proposed plot plan we did make some modifications so from the one that you have we added some shading as well as um a staircase at the rear and a staircase at the front of the property which was not shown on my original plot plan so that changed um or ex A1 yes and do we have anything we do not have anything in our packages regarding the stairc no it's basically the same plan I colorized and shaded the where the addition is where the two-story Edition is and um where we showed a staircase the front of the house and a walkway and a staircase at the rear which was not shown on the original submission what was the date I'm sorry what was uh this revision is dated August 194 is the staircase leading to the first floor or the second floor the staircase in the front leads to the front porch the the building itself the house itself is elev elevated about 3 or four feet up from the street so you need a number of risers to get up there and in the back it's the same thing it it brings us up to the main level because the Great drops off somewhat and it also gives us the opportunity to get into the basement area okay but from from grade to the first floor you you don't have a stairwell that goes all the way up to the second floor like a fire escape and no nothing on the so what I the just for for the benefit of the board the impervious coverage for the stairs counts if the stairs and steps are not covered it's not considered part of the house and does not impct the setback because it's step Ro right the U the front porch is less than 5 foot projection from the building it's open on three sides so it doesn't have to adhere to the required setback um so let me get to the nuts and bolts the the property in question is tax lot six and block 9005 uh 157 Pearl Street uh it is located in the R15 Zone District within your community um just a back to a little bit of History uh the lot was actually created in 1923 by virtue of an old Subdivision map known as map number three Murray Hill Farm Colony as a matter of fact Casey and Keller actually performed a survey on this property back in 1943 so we we do have some history here with this particular property um the lot itself is 55 ft wide by 195 ft deep giving us a total lot area of 10,700 25 Square ft as you are aware in the r-15 zone you're required to have 15,000 square ft and 100 foot lot width so we're dealing with a substandard lot with regard to width and overall size um the front yard setback that exists on the existing structure is 3.26 feet where 50 fet is required in the zone that's an existing non-conforming condition that's not going to be exacerbated uh by the proposed work on the house uh sidey setbacks the individual sidey yard setbacks are 12 feet um that is currently what the existing structure is um where we fall short and require a variance is on the combined side yard requirement of 30 feet um when you add together the two sidey yard setbacks it becomes up to 24 feet uh therefore we're seeking a six- foot variance uh from that standard um the rear yard is more than compliant at over 105 feet where 40 feet uh is required um the building height as the chairman pointed out it is compliant I I calculated about 28 feet with regard to the building height the building coverage will be compliant right at 15% as permitted within the code um the variance that we do need is with regard to what is referred to as other lot coverage which um is allowed to be 10% under the original submission the number was around, 1500 square F feet that number when I added in the stairs and the walks that number had to jump up to 1664 or 15.52% so that gives us a a total loot coverage of 3,272 square feet or about 30.5% where 25% would be permitted with regard to uh building and other lot coverage we are also seeking a variance with regard to location of the existing driveway we're extending that driveway to the back to access the two-car garage at the rear of the structure it will be set back off the property line about 3 feet where 5T is required we are going to be modifying the existing driveway location to remove the encroachment onto the uh adjoining property um the give you a sense excuse me Mr Eng I'm sorry your last name we have a member of the board who has a question for you from the last comments that we made with respect to the extending of the driveway and because um you won't have the side set requirements what is being done for storm water uh management um just thinking that you know all of that pavement and it being sure yeah um let me get to that in a second um we are aware of the letter from the environmental commission that did raise that very question um there's nothing proposed at this particular time but as part of the submission to the township for our actual building permit we will be submitting a lot grading and drainage plan where we will be providing for some storm water mitigation either through the means of a rain Garden or a dryw that would offset the uh increase an impervious area uh resulting from this application what's what's interesting to note is what we what we avoided was the addition of a detached garage and the extension of the driveway by taking the approach of putting the garages within the building at the back end we can actually reduce the amount of impervious area that would have been required to provide a garage for uh this resident so um we feel that this is the best approach and provides the best way to redevelop the property in a way that would be inke keeping with the character of the neighborhood and bringing it up to today's standards um as far as uh the variances themselves in my opinion the setback variance uh certainly falls under the C1 criteria because the lot is narrower than what is normally required we're working with an existing structure that awfully exists on the property so the extension of the addition straight back we still meet the 12 foot minimum requirement that's required uh under the zone so my in my mind that the uh this is certainly um advances the public good the intent and purpose of the Zone plan and zoning ordinance without negatively impacting uh adjoining properties because you do still meet uh the minimum requirement um as to the coverage variance I would argue that this is a C2 variance in as much as I believe this is a better planning alternative than the alternate that I just described about a detached garage and extending and then the benefit of having um certain storm water management elements would certainly mitigate any negative impacts that are associated with the increase loot coverage so the long and the short of it is I see this as a great opportunity to improve the the streetcape enhance the Aesthetics of the neighborhood bring a uh derel property uh back into the tax rols and and become uh a great place for people to live and uh to be part of this community so in my mind I think this is an application that could be approved by the board without any negative impact on the municipality or the neighborhood uh can you just tell us what the sidey yard setback is proposed for the driver we're removing it from the neighboring parcel is is it a zero on the property line is it a three from the property line five is the magic number right we hate to use the phrase Magic numbers that's the requirement yes um but what is the what is the sidey yard setback offered with the new project with the new project we're proposing 3T 3et so there will be a twoot side yard setback for the driveway but you're eliminated it from the neighborhood property that's correct um this is a question for the applicant and the professionals a vegetative Management program I noticed it there was nothing included in the package can anyone in this group speak to the vegetative management restoration plan we do have a member of our environmental commission who's going to make a comment shortly about storm water management and Rain Gardens and species of trees but did you have a plan that you can discuss with us at this time and if not that's okay just we're going to introduce Mr L yeah we haven't developed a formal plan yet but we were anticipating developing something as you know um there's several trees on the property that do have to come down uh as a result of the construction activity a few of the trees are seen better days and or you know with vines all over them so it would be appropriate to take them down but we can develop certainly as part of any condition of approval uh a landscape plan that we could have approved by your should this application Advance a condition of approval will be a vegetative management plan but we're going to put a pin in that for right now and I'd like Mr ller to come up and say a few words as he is our liais on to the environmental commission and there will be a few comments regarding vegetation and stormw thank you if I can just swear you in real quick would you raise your right hand you swear tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do thank you and your name and address Richard ler 49 simm Avenue well I I feel honored to be called up ahead of time we saw you in the back of so I decided to re you now be appropriate um so just to uh kind of amplify your comments uh Mr Sullivan the uh recommendation of the environmental commission is that at at least half of the trees that are replaced are to be native trees um and that uh generally means not cultivars of native trees but native trees with which might uh be you know pure native trees and they are certainly available from the trade um next point is uh the there is a new storm Mort management ordinance that is uh being uh examined uh but the state has already said that and lacking a new storm order how ordinance the state's ordinance is uh uh what it must be adhered to um at this point the uh calculation for storm water is a 1.25 water quality storm last week uh overnight we had or was that Sunday Sunday right we're still in the same week the the rain fall in my rain gauge was 5.2 Ines that was the overnight storm I'm sure that some of you had issues with that and we saw in the news that there was flooding in the in the town we're trying to do a uh a plan right uh which will be very expensive to for drainage in the town the West Side drainage project but the thing that also is important is that uh properties try to retain storm water on their on the property in other words allow that storm water to percolate into the ground and thereby slow the runoff from the property at uh present and you people probably know just as well as I do maybe your houses do this the down spout comes down the side of the house it goes out to the street and many properties some of these properties just drain it right into the catch Basin you can walk by catch basins and see the water is just draining right in so when there's a heavy rain such as we had the other day that's immense amounts of water going down the sewer they can't absorb that so the the environmental commission is saying let's try to retain storm water on property not allow it to uh simply run off the property uh we're doing another project of planting uh trees right we received a grant from the state to plant trees we ask people uh can we plant a tree we don't ask them we say we'd like to plant a tree here uh in the right of way so it's not in their property it's on the right of way it's in the township property they have these beautiful Lawns manicured Lawns I don't want a tree on my lawn what that means is the the heavy rains like what we had the other day just run off the lawn a lawn can take maybe an inch of rain and then it starts just sheating off the lawn um so we did a calculation for this property for the increase of 1498 ft we apparently relied on on numbers that were in the application which are not uh uh the numbers that uh the uh engineer just uh told us because we thought that the total proposed lot coverage was 29.4 but it's more than that it's 30 point something so our our calculations are below what the actual runoff is on the property so you're seeing a lot of runoff when there are storms and that's a that's a concern for the uh environmental commission where are you seeing the discrepancy so if the application says 29.4 and you're saying it's over 30 I picked up from the lot coverage on the first page of the application a number that was 29.4 but that apparently is not true but maybe you have an updated one I picked up from only have 29 29.4 okay you have 29.4 but I heard the engineer we're gonna have you finished and then the architect is go the engineer is going to have a comment regarding the clarification on the numbers okay so we'd like you to finish and then if you can close with um your recommendations as far as the type of storm water management system that is desired at the end of the day the final decision is left with the discretion of the burrow engineer Mr Saro but I'm sure the applicants would be happy to hear some of your recommendations as the EC leads and as as you said it's a recommendation we hope that uh the recommendation has heard uh so we're talking about um putting in green infrastructure and when we say green infrastructure we prefer to see uh either whes or pervious Paving or rain Gardens why is that well because rain Gardens and swes serve of multiple purpose versus dry Wells the dry well you dig a big hole in the ground you put a big tank in the ground and it disappears with a rain Garden you dig a you dig a a um a shallow uh area a bowl like area and you put in in plants so you're doing multiple things you're allowing the water to penetrate into the ground and you're planting native plants which are absorbing some of that water and also uh providing um an environment for insects and making uh your garden beautiful consequence in either case e whether you're doing putting in a dry well or you're putting in a rain Garden is maintenance you have a garden you need to maintain it and that is for sure uh with rain Gardens um and also we recommend that any Su pumps or our down spouts be disconnected from the street just to thank you as always for joining us this even thank you sir have the engineer step up to clarify and quantify the total impervious coverage yes the total impervious coverage is 30.5% now is what we're proposing and that resulted from the addition of the staircase staircases as well as the sidewalk area um the uh gentleman from the environmental commission was correct our original application at 29.4 um but we have no qualms with regard to providing storm water management in the form of green infrastructure for this property uh as I mentioned in my direct testimony um the use of a rain Garden uh porous pavers uh there's a number of opportunities that are available here we have a very deep lot um so we have the ability to create uh a way to manage the storm water in a very positive way and our some pumps will definitely not connect to the street nor will the roof drains as an engineer is there any way that you can reduce the impervious coverage on the proposed Drive way turn around in the back and trim it down to below 30 29 and change per yeah I looked at that pretty closely it's going to be tight to get two cars in there um the far garage actually may end up might be better off I know if it was my wife to back into the position rather than pulling in and then trying to back out so I really thought we tried to keep it to a minimum um one of the things we've done very successfully and I haven't shared this with Dan yet so he may shoot me um in Milbourne what we've done on a number of occasions to handle driveway areas and keep the impervious coverage down is to use grass pavers uh the concrete element with with uh uh grass in it and it actually that it's [Music] Town never really bought into so traditional for Ocean County Gloucester County but it's it did does not work well in the northern the northern counties and that created another hard Shi also the driveways are considered 100% impervious regardless of the materials that's why I was looking if there's any way we could be creative in the back of the part I know that you've already reduced the width of the drive and if there's a way to trim down something there or reorient to get us under 30% would probably be um so we're looking at about if yeah it's oh a half a % would be roughly what looking at about 110 square feet right or if there's another area yeah perhaps we could reduce the size of the walkway or narrow up the staircase what is the the walk where is the walkway present across the front of the building so maybe if you flag stone instead of a paper walkway you flag stone it with gr you're you're reducing some we don't want to completely change your project we're just looking right to see staircase gets a little more narrow we reduce the size of the the walkway um perhaps I can chamfer or round off the the driveway at the back I'm sure we can come up with 100 square feet take a tread off the stairs I'll just have to sell to somebody young they'll just have to jump if we I believe the board would if should this application Advance feel a little bit more comfortable in the in the 29 range as opposed to the slightly over 30 considering the size of the lot and I realize that you have the hardship with the the width of the lot as well so we're looking at reducing the coverage to like 29.9% respect to our liaison from the environmental commission there was a difference between the application and and the calculation so it's we're looking at 29.4 there was 110 foot not included an hour paper cor correct board looking for that to be a condition of approval okay um I have a question uh for maybe the architect or or the record family or or the engineer tell us about the materials of the structure that's from the exterior what what will we be looking at should this application pass alone Pro I would I would bow to the architect for that one um um so we plan on using vinyl siding to um match kind of the clapboard is this something is this A2 this is a 1.0 we have that was the original no no I thought we were looking at I couldn't see that I don't know if you were showing I didn't know if you were showing material designs or something show the the typical plans and elevations got it got it um we're looking at final signing the clapboard uh imitation that's typical along that street um adding some details especially at the front with some taces and breaking that up um with that the shingle type of um of vinyl siding uh at the top typical Asphalt in the back but some some areas of uh of Roofing also typically uh Scott's correct typically we do vinyl on three sides the front would probably be Hardy plank correct with some additional trim that's probably not shown here I go a little crazy sometimes with the trim on the front trying to get the curb appeal so the front will probably have a lot more detail than it's shown here thank you um I'd like to make a motion to open up of members of the public I I got a motion by Mr Ringwood so move a recomend Mr Sylvester I second that the meeting is now open to members of the public that have a question or comment regarding the application before us at 157 Pearl Street 9516 thank you very much for joining us please step up to the microphone and M wolf will swear you can you give us your name and address and raise your right hand Christy Arnold 132 to Fairview Avenue which is directly behind Pearl thank you raise your right hand do you sort tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you thank you for joining us this evening so I'm very pleased to hear all the discussion about storm order because that is our concern um there's talk about the character of the neighborhood and what you know we are fully in support of redeveloping that lot and you know working on what's there anything's an improvement just the degree of coverage is is a concern to us just to give you an idea the neighborhood we have a 0.5 acre lot and we have a 2100q foot house so a 2900 SQ foot house on a 3 acre lot is is a little bit more um the concern is for initially you're going to be cutting down a lot of vegetation I know you're going to use the existing structure but there's a lot of vegetation that's going to need to be cut down which is going to cause water to run onto our property right now um the history we I also heard somebody talk about the history the street the history that we were told is that the corner of Union Avenue was an old farmhouse and then if you go there's Pearl then there's fair viiew and the bottom side of fair viiew that goes towards Springfield was where the cow pasture was that's where the pure right so we know that the water all goes you are you are accurate history of the area so you know the water all goes down right and it all goes back there so you can't fite mother nature to a certain extent the water is going to run from Pearl down to fairie and it's going to go down so initially when this construction happens what's going to happen to my house I have four Sun Pumps I have drain in my yard I have um Basement Waterproofing with French drains and I still I I gave you guys a picture um I can give it to you but show the river that comes from the property behind us and down because Pearl does not have any sewers Fair has sewers Pearl does not have any sewers so there's no place to catch the water it just goes straight down to our backyards and then it'll go around a foundation so my concern is the negative effect of the property that I have and what that's going to bring um I think anything that they can do to keep the water on the property is going to be the concern um the the overall coverage is my concern um I know at one point we applied for variance ourselves to put you know a little pad in the back but the town asked us to take down a shed and make it up in other ways so I just you know I think there are other things or other ways that they might be able to limit this so that it's not so big in coverage and might not have as much of a negative effect of Us coming coming down you know because it it's a hill and it goes down the hill and um my neighbors particular are right behind them so it's going to go right to them they're on vacation right now so they couldn't be here as well but they have the same concern that we do okay anything else no thank you part of the provisions will be Mr ler spoke about swes and Rain Gardens and some other Provisions Mr rord has been a developer in Berkeley Heights in the area Mr rord can you tell us if you don't mind as a developer the provisions that you take during construction Sil fence snow fences some of the provisions you take to protect and retain everything within the subject parcel or the subject sub yeah during construction you're right if you can please pick at microphone um during construction you're correct there'll be silt fences which are required uh there'll be erosion control measures which Mike can probably go into um hay bales if we need to um this is a good education for me tonight to realize that she's speaking of the river that comes through there um I hadn't seen that so I'm glad she brought a tore attention uh but typically Sil fences which are fences that we have to bury the bottom 6 in and it prevents erosion and prevents to some extent the water from going off the property and if that doesn't do it we supplement that with hay bills um it's a pretty deep property and you're you're behind us right right behind Okay um it's pretty good distance from the construction to their property and um I'm going to take down as few trees as I can um because my wife loves trees and she always yells at me if I take down too many trees uh along with the expense obviously um so we'll be minimizing the amount of trees we take down but there's a lot of dead trees there you know I'm not going to kid anybody they're going to come down um so we'll do what we can but I I think that from the construction standpoint um there's a good distance between the construction and the back of the lot and I think a lot of that water is going to dissipate but we're going to have to uh do the silt fences and the erosion control which we're required to do and you know that's all inspected and maintained they come around you know once every week or two and inspect us so should this applic pass we assume that your team will be mindful of any product leaving the parel yeah absolutely we don't we don't want any complaints I mean we're we're resident and um you know we want to minimize any impact to the neighborhood as best we can um I don't need my phone ringing at night you know from the town engineer telling me Dan you got to go out and fix this so uh it's much easier to take the measures ahead of time do it right the first time not to get the phone calls so um yeah no you'll we we'll do as much as we can to prevent it from running off same in the front for that matter you know a lot of times it'll run onto the street um you know we line that with hay bales you know as best we can and everything so we'll we'll try to contain system on street I guess not that's that's new news that's new news to me but yeah I I guess not so we'll have to be a little careful on the front also um as well as the back but we'll do we'll do the best we can because like I said I don't want the phone call so I think please is by raise of hands is there any other member of the public that have a question or comment regarding 157 Pro Street seeing no one thank you please just to know if there were any that were to happen who who would we contact or what would the B the burrow engineer is your first okay call Connie who uh was is the uh zoning board secretary she's in the engineering division in the event that you had an experience you can reach out to the town directly Tom Saro is the engineer of record who's presence here and there's no raise of like the ground level none of that the grading is going to be exactly as as it is Mr reiker or the engineer can you speak to any changes in topography that that would affect water as well they're not going to change what's existing because if there is excavation the excavation materials leave the property they're not redistributed about the parcel we'll let the engineer comment on that yeah there's obviously we're going to manipulate some of the topography on the site so that we can impound the water on site and what is referred to as a rain Garden as the environmental commission had suggested the and the SW to get the water to that location so it doesn't just sheet flow off the property and negatively impact the joining Property Owners I just like to make clarification you mentioned that the house was going to be like 2900 square feet that's not correct that the house is no more than 1600 square feet so it's the um where we need the variances for the driveway and for the walkways because you're only allowed 10% additional lot coverage so that's what puts us over and that's what we need the variance on the house is compliant with regard to the size we're proposing but we'll we'll do every effort we can and and not only are we going to deal with storm water on site as far as rain Gardens go but we're also going to make efforts as the chairman pointed out with a revegetation plan uh new plantings new plant materials that'll be absorbed be able to absorb uh runoff as much as possible and avoid any um impact acts that you might experience thank thank you I'd like to make a motion to close the meeting I did I I swept the room I'd like to make a motion to close the meeting to members of the public Mr deia motion to close and Mr Degan I second that motion the meeting is now closed to members of the public that had a question or comment regarding 157 Pearl Street uh Miss West comments or question I have one question the house what I don't seea plan does it have a current basement yes it does okay is there any um modifications being are there any modifications being made to the basement um just for the new owners as well um for um potential um mitigation of storm water or flooding or anything like that uh no the existing basement is is going to remain except for a new staircase down but no sunm pumps or anything like that oh no no there'll be sunm pumps yeah okay oh yeah and they'll go into the rain Garden they won't go out to the road or anything question thank you this svest I'm good thank you Mr wringler I'm good thank you Mr coella you're changing the width of the driveway does that the opening of the street um the area where the encroachment occurs is is pretty much at this at right where the RightWay comes in so yeah we're going to have to make some modifications there as well so how do that street openair mean if you're just closing it off I guess does make a difference but is that going to be wide enough to get a car in right now the the what's going to happen is the curb cut is going to remain exactly as it is what's going to happen is from the curb cut we're going to have to tweak to the right a little bit to get past because you remember you have 10 feet from the face of curve to the property line so we can we can be over to the left a little bit in our in your right away in the public right away it's when we where the driveway crosses the intersection of the RightWay and the side property line that we want to be clear you're offering a three foot side D set correct it's going to you're going to be able to I I believe we can I took a look at it to the driveway yeah correct and Mar there a comment I I have a a rearload garage myself I'm looking at the 24 25 foot it just seems tight and we tried to keep the impervious cover I believe you did it just seems I mean mine it's it's it's longer otherwise you wouldn't be able to make that right swing in [Music] so other than that Mr chair I thank you very much Mr cool I still have Mr I'm good Mr sator no Mr delay it um with that said um Amanda let's speak two conditions so the applicant will have to reduce the coverage to below 30% or do 29.4 29.4 as the application presented which is approximately 110 square feet Mr K corre the applicant will Implement drainage measures particularly AR rain Gardener swes in accordance with the recommendations of the environmental commission a landscape plan vegetative management plan uh any lighting will be downward directed and the property will be remain free of debris it won't be disorderly or anything like that I think that's all of them from BL we that's our tradition any trees or vegetation to be remove subject to the review and approval depar tree inspector Tom S Faro is the engineer of record regarding storm weather management and Provisions in that FM and we don't need a Road opening permit uh you know let's let's say if applicable because in the event we there is some slice into the street I just want to make sure that uh Mr Saro is aware has Pearl Street been resurfaced recently I know I think client and fair viiew have right okay so they're it's appropriate for the engineer to engage and if we have to exercise a street opening permit we do and the uh the site will remain Clean and Clear of debris I think there was a mattress out there or something one of the last pictures with that said may I get a motion Mr Ringwood move that we accept the application with the conditions noted and I have a second Mr Dean a second that motion and a roll call on7 Pearl Street Mr yes coell yes Mr yes Mr yes Mr Sylvester yes M West Guston yes Mr Degan yes Mr jurus yes motion carries 70 we'd like to thank the members of the public for their expressing their concerns and questions and we we we work hard together to keep you at peace Mr ler as always thank you very much for providing your environmental comments uh Mr record I had we did speak a little bit about the history of the form and the phising can you please tell us what the initials ER and er development represent right there okay Elizabeth rer Elizabeth rer can you please tell us the history of we know that you've created subdivisions in the Berkeley Heights area and the surrounding areas how do you come up with the names of the streets because I know this ties into some of your personal history and the history with um um a good question well Holly Muse my first subdivision that was already on on the books uh Lillian Court was the name Lillian was the name of my partner's mother who recently passed away so he wanted to name the court I said you name it it's your turn uh Rose gate uh which is off of planfield um her middle name is Rose Elizabeth Rose so I'd used Elizabeth before so I used Rose we came up with rose gate that's it and E development is Elizabeth Riker I work for her um she was the original uh land owner on Grassman there and she discovered that her mother was had a lot of land but didn't have a lot of cash so she said let's do the subdivision and before you knew it we were building houses in Berkeley Heights but she started the company I worked for her and I can tell you the story how she got her builder's license she we had hired a builder to build the houses on Grassman and he did what typical Builders did in those days he took our deposit and he went to Hawai literally to Hawaii okay and we couldn't get them back anyway she says forget about it I'm going to build the houses so the building inspector at the time Mr Jen Kowski says well Liz you're going to need a builder's license I can't just let you build she says okay I'll go get a builder's license she goes drives down to Trenton literally gets in the car drives to Trenton and says listen told her the story to the lady across the counter he says listen I need a build license here's why I'm build and we had two houses under construction when he left okay and I need a builder's license and I need it today and if I don't get it today he's going to shut me down and says you wait right here honey he went in the back and she brought out another woman and the woman Li explained the story to her woman said give me your paper stamped it here's your license go give this to the building inspector she drives back to Berkeley he same day walks in gives hands her license to Bill Janowski and Bill goes how the hell did you get a license in a day he says I don't know but the lady down there in Trent and said give you this note so she he handed her the note bill reads it okay you can build this you're good we never knew what the note said so a few months later I'm down applying for another billing permit and I said Bill what did that note say that Liz brought from Trenton he says you want to see it it says LZ is good to go I'm issuing your license if she has any problems she has my personal phone number she can call me directly Shirley Vass commissioner of the DCA which is what all the building inspector worked for her so that was it she had a she had a letter from the commissioner she was good to go on anything she had to do we passed every inspection that Year by the way so there was no problem so that's how she started and then she brought me on board and the rest is history and ironically does that answer your question ironically tonight's application was Pearl Street Pearl Street thank you very much for joining us I'm in trouble I'm in thank you guys I appreciate it thank you thank you thanks guys thank you Jason can you please pronounce your letter Jo Jo Jo why don't you make yourself comfortable on as we did a couple of months ago and then we will introduce your application and if there's any members of the public that would like to come up get a little bit closer feel free we have uh 100 shares and 98 are still uh okay application 24009 32 Liberty Avenue block 1805 Lot 4 this is the R15 Zone this is a area up of planfield near Columbia school and the applicant has joined us uh I believe in June on a concept review and I believe you have considered some plan revisions and we'd like to hear some of your revisions and I believe the applicant is already under yes they've already noticed and they're already no actually I didn't swear you in it the last one because it was informal so if you raise your right hand swear tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the chair thank you your name and address Jason Joya 32 Liberty Avenue thank you and the 200 foot radius was was good thank you thank you for joining us and why don't you tell us about your project y sure so um I lived at the property for almost four years at this point um during that time my family has grown um and gotten bigger um I bought the house it was new construction so as a result I have a very small uh P patio area um I'm looking to replace the existing rear patio area with a roof covered deck so I can utilize the space all year around and the the original covered patio was part of when you purchased the home that was part of the Developers resolution and this doesn't meet your needs at this time that's okay as I mentioned my family has gotten bigger the kids have gotten bigger so um just trying to utilize space all year around and enlarge um with um again a roof cover deck also um create another small paper area with a barbecue and Island seating um and then in addition just a walkway from the front to the rear of the house um so the kids can get back for um easily um I have an undersized lot a shallow lot approximately 11,800 s feet and the existing house is non-conforming with regards to setbacks um and just lastly I I submitted revised proposals um with a total out coverage of 29.9% of the last time and can you tell us let's talk about the rear yard setback you had a number I I think it was 10 nine or 10 ft and have you increased the the rear did I say side yard I'm sorry rear yard setback um can you tell us what modifications you have provided to date regarding the plans from the original to what's proposed this even yeah so um my proposed rear setback now is 15 feet um and just as a an example my existing is 17.7 um feet so it's really just um a couple more feet um I originally had somewhere about 12 um feet set back on my original plan so I I increased that to 15 ft from 12 to 15 and this is a covered patio is it a patio where there uh so the so I currently have a land small Landing to go out to the paa area um it's just extend basically extending the landing to a deck and then um with a roof covered area so so the patio the patio is pulled up the patio is pulled up and but we are putting decking down but a roof over with which constitutes more house and impervious coverage correct and there were other features that were considered in addition to the covered deck um yeah so I had a a whole other rare side patio area that um was approximately 14 by4 that I completely eliminated to edce um down my my coverage okay so the the grill fridge and sink area on pavers that was presented during our concept review has been eliminated from the plant um so the are you referring to the barbecue area and the island yeah it looks like it says grilled fridge and S yeah that's that remains that remains yeah there's there's an area to the right of that that was eliminated so just to be clear you have the wooden deck covered and you do have a patio presented in the backyard and a walkway from from the from the driveway to the back of the house that's correct okay and what's the distance the separation of the P patio to the property line the rear set back rear set back um 12 feet and is there a vegetation row that exists today or is that proposed that's proposed it doesn't and can you tell us about the vegetation that you you're proposed or you haven't defined that yet um I was some um evergreen trees most likely but not not specifically defined should the environmental commission express some type of species would you be would you object to that or would you be willing to consider recommendations from the environmental commiss absolutely willing to consider please continue thank you um the let's talk about the imperious where it was where where it was and now what you've registed to your your initial answer and where we went U my original uh proposal was 32.9 9% um I reduced it by 3% so it is now 29.9% 29.9 and the size of your lot 11,800 Square ft and as mentioned which is an undersized lot because 15,000 is the minimum in the Liberty area that's correct yes RIS plan did the roofing come off because I remember that was the portion so that still makes it um impervious W room areas of it that would it's impervious and house because it's connected to the house that's right you have a follow up on okay anything where the roof is building yes and other questions are coming Mr well you could have I mean you could have flip-flopped the the wood deck in the paper patio if the wood deck if the if the stone were underneath the home underneath the covered porch area it wouldn't add any additional coverage because it's covered that's part of building so if the debt or where the patio was and that would be considered perious then you would reduce your coverage significantly by just flip flopping the two right you could if if if the what was under coverage under roof was Stone and what was open was decking yeah and you expands upon the Swatch of papers that exists today well they're gone he said they're they exist today the existing um papers are there today yes right so instead of taking that up if you had that covered patio yeah over the stone right then that's considered building coverage which you're having now anyway you over a deck if you then had a deck instead of stone that would not count against coverage so you would significantly reduce coverage by just leaving the stone where it is and having that covered and having your barbecue and grill and so on refrigerator on a deck whether it's trackx wood any of that material again would reduce the overall coverage of the parcel because again putting a loop over a deck is coverage putting roof over Stone one coverage but you would it back yeah it's an option it just personally it doesn't flow well because it's up and down the point of the the deck coming off the the rear door um makes it more convenient to come off the out of the door it still could come off the if it were or you could do a stone or raise Stone um which may not be the pavers so if you raise the stone you would still be able to do what Mike is talking about like if it were just a um concrete um patio so to speak but that was rais how do you feel about switch swapping the areas um you're reducing the coverage we're we're sensitive to the rear yard set be honest with you I I appreciate your efforts from from 12 to 15 but that may be some additional that may present some additional question regarding the coverage as close to the rear yard and I know that you've got a vegetation plan available and Mr ler is going to speak about stor management native trees shortly um I I would have to discuss it with my wife obviously um but it again it's not my ideal and original um it wouldn't be my first choice and we do appreciate the efforts I know that you spent the past 60 days yep reducing your your scope of your project for numbers it reduces it by 3.4% which is closer to 26 and change um we're going to introduce Mr leer regarding this topic thank you because I know that you did provide an environmental Commission and the applicant is in search of some additional guidance regarding potential storm weather management rain Gardens reparan Zone was a comment and the uh Native species of vegetation as a buffer thank you would you raise your right hand you s tell the truth the whole the truth is nothing but the truth I still do yes thank you your name and address again Richard ler 49 Summit Avenue the the main concern of the environmental commission is the The reparan Zone that's adjacent to the property um it's not clear to us whether the there's lawn there or whether there's vegetation um I haven't looked at that unfortun I did research This months ago the repairing Zone was theoretically destroyed the developer I I I'm not I'm not pointing fingers at anyone there was an improvement to the parcel a new home was there there was a fence installed there was sod and grass put and in the eyes of the borrow engineer and the zoning official The rebarian Zone that's their opinions we've got to respect their opinions you've got your opinion you can share your opinion and why don't you tell us what your opinion is about the reparan zone and I think it's a proximity issue but it is a lawn area and the applicate was for prior to me prior to prior to his arrival yes so I mean the our our stance is that you should be protecting the reparan Zone um and that there shouldn't be imperious surface within 25 foot of that Brook um I think that may have been the previous finding that they reduce the reparan Zone from what normally would be 50 feet to 25 feet that I think is one of the all your resolutions um but in any case can can you do something to protect what's left of the reparan Zone from so that there's not uh water just running off of the property into the brook um um I'll just read from uh our recommendation that New Jersey strong mortar best management practices chap two states when applying for development approval from a regulatory agency or board a plan showing natural vegetated areas on the pre-developed site site along with a narrative and photographs describing each area as vegetated and hydrologic characteristics should be included in the application package The Narrative should also discuss the Alternatives and choices made to preserve the natural vegetated areas further particularly in regard to the reparan Zone researches has demonstrated that areas covered with turf grass typically generate more runoff than other types of vegetation this is especially true in comparing grass areas with naturally wooded areas or forests therefore in keeping with the goals of nonstructural low uh development they're giving you the abbreviation L bmp's best management practices contained in the NJ dp's Norm motive management rules the amount of lots and other grass areas at Land Development sites should be minimized instead alternative vegetation particularly native plants should be used to revegetate the Disturbed side areas and as I've said before we recommend that at least half of T trees and shrubs that are installed be native trees however next to a stream we would recommend that 100% of the uh trees and shrubs or whatever vegetation is put there being native that suitable for that area that's simply because you're choosing uh trees and shrubs that uh will do well in an area that's next to a stream once they're established and as I pointed out uh in the um recommendation uh the annual runoff from the imperious surface of about 9 78 square ft may be more than 28,000 gallons annually we're trying to keep the uh the rainfall on the property if that's uh possible and groundwater recharge is apparently between 6 and 12 inches a year so apparently that that uh soil there can uh accept a rain Garden there's five there's a four uh grades of soil a b c d you you people are probably familiar with that D soil is almost impossible it's basically a brick you know it it you can't penetrate it but a b and c soils are suitable with some uh amendments to the soil for rain Gardens thanks very much thank you it it appears and um um using a scale on the Fly and I'm I'm looking at an eighth scale and I have a surveyor scale I believe that the walkway and the padway that's proposed is greater than 25 ft from the Brooks Edge if the applicant also considers vegetation in that area because it is presented on the plans we could incorporate as a condition of resolution should this application pass the type of vegetation that is appropriate for a repairi and Zone buffer which is what in in layman's terms what the applicant mentioned Evergreens or junipers or something is is there something close in I I just want to be I this is the applicant's second to here and I just want to provide him with some additional direction should this application the environmental commission could provide a list of plants that's uh and Evergreen plants are possible too we simply said in the uh recommendation you might want to avoid uh certain Evergreens that uh are deer candy so aror V are deer candy so we look at other uh evergreens inste of Arbor V great thank you again thank you for joining us um I'd like to make a motion to open up to meeting the members of the public that have a question or comment Mr covella members of the public Mr Degan I second that motion the meeting is now open to members of the public that have a question or comment regarding the application before us at 32 Liberty please come up and please introduce yourself and Miss wolf will ask you a question or uh 23 Walk Avenue 23 W please 23 W and you the parcel behind yeah my backyard just connect to his backyard thank you very much for joining us this evening why don't you I swear you in first sorry you raise your right hand you swear affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you and I I don't think I can express U that good take your time would you like would you like to be seated and talk to us or do you feel comfortable at the microphone no it's okay and just take a breath and and speak and don't worry about anything and we may have some questions for you but we appreciate you sharing your yeah your comments with us I write it down so and with the pictures can I we're yeah why don't you tell us what we're going to look at and then we're going to Mark I'm going just read the yeah read read what you'd like yeah that's why I say then after that I give and then we'll share one with the applicate okay and one with the and some for the board um you know um I have to read it at okay otherwise I forgot I have some objections and concerns to the construction proposal for the poty lot behind me behind my okay uh 30 to Liberty Avenue that uh in addition to the reason that the proposal was uh already rejected the elevation of their backyard is substantially higher than mine it varies from 2.5 to 3.5 ft depends on the sight okay and with a down slope in the direction of my poty it was already previously increase by the Builder when the existing ptio was built this will affect water drainage into my property assuming they will have to level some of the left to right variance in their backyard in order to build the ptio outdoors stove fireplace it will further increase the height of their property over mine besides drainage concerns this actual height plus the elevated ptio deck will cause priv issue to my property as from the Pao deck lights and the light of a sight will be done into my backyard and my house as this is not enclosed I would also have concerns about the noise level that will be present on any given day please see the attached pictures in reference to the above concerns additionally I have some concern about the fireplace first the height of the fireplace and possibly the roof who who height is unspecified in the revised the plants will be at least 20 feet higher than my property level as noted previously their property is already approximately three feet higher than M plus the deck height three feet and the oppose high of the fireplace 14 feet I have concerns about this block naturally light and the casting Shadows into my backyard Al so what what type of uh fireplace is this if it is wood burning then I will also have concern about whether the smoking smoke from it will be blow on to my property and into my house all of the above objection concerns are items that would affect my property value negatively if any when I ever choose to sell the house okay thank you thank you please share your the information that you would like to yeah distribute we're going to have a copy for the applicant this evening and if you could stick close because we will have some questions for you as well how many copies did you make all together five five this is all five okay we're going to mark one into evidence we give that a we Mr Joya one copy [Music] um the picture in your backyard who builts the retaining wall there's a retain looks like there's maybe three foot retaining wall in the back yeah I feel that who who owns the retaining W you or your neighbor you mean the the wall the block no they did they build a wall okay and is there a fence on top of the wall right what is the height of the fence that's on top of the wall what is what's the height of the white is it a white white vinyl the white vinyl or the white plastic fence 5 feet yeah okay so 5 feet plus 3 feet equals an 8 foot yeah actually one side depends on one side is two uh one side next to of the neighbors one is 2.5 ft and the near the brook that side is larger yeah three at least 3.5 before the wall the fence is on top of the wall right and actually they do not allow them to have a full fans because um you know J because the water problem so they they open one side you know actually whose fence is it you can see the picture it's the appli fence and it's the applicant's wall you can see the picture they are open okay I want you to continue and then we I don't want to get too busy with yeah because that's uh because the water problems and they have you also can see the picture they have a one black tooth that's because the water and actually those water you know after rain my my backyard is very wet even my driveway before never happened only after they build a new house my uh driveways right when six years ago did you express this to the for that was uh on 19 September 16 20119 okay so in 2009 did you object to the application were you here I were here but but you know I do not understand those things I never were most of us were here in 2009 but 19 20119 2011 in 2019 yeah they build that was a builder y I know a developer bought the old house not the old house down appeared before the zoning board because it was a corner parcel and it was a tight it was a 11,000 square foot property and he he redeveloped the property and life has changed for you a little bit correct and I I believe from what I'm understanding there is a slope right and and from from the it's a SL the west side of your property towards the water it goes from two feet and then it goes down to 3 feet on the wall that exists so you are looking at a retaining wall we call it a retaining wall and then a five foot fence on top of the retaining one correct yeah you know because I think their Lots is very higher than M and if they make a deck even even the that last public hearing the Builder also they because I don't want they have a deck so they also admit the deck is too high you know will be high to see my whole house that's why they have they only have a Pao on the God right but when the construction was happening in 2019 you saw the house go up and you saw the retaining wall and there must have been some soils moved around yeah I saw did you did you ever approach anyone in the town you yes I I I I send a I also complain to them that's why they send the engineering and somebody come to look that's why they have have to they have to set up you know put the the black tube and besides the fence they cannot complete the fence so between uh their Y and my Y is no fans of one part of them you can see the picture you know yeah the picture everyone I'm sorry did everyone get a CH so the con the concern is it's the this is this is very late now and this is I we're going to talk about the way a fence line is defined is based upon lowest adjacent grade so in my opinion your yard is the lowest adjacent grade and you bought a home in this situation the developer put three courses of blocks up Bo they may have may have may have allegedly added Phill to that area to balance out the yard and a five foot fence on top so at its highest point the you can and you can see the picture on the you purchased the house with the fence so he's the first owner so the the the developer must have received a permit for a fence during this uh improve project but the fence in my eyes is8 or 8 and 1 12 ft tall right but without a permit I we don't know if there's a per I don't right tonight we don't know if there's a per or not you can see the pictures even the fence is higher than his uh neighbors you know the five feet all than before was the same high the fence we have the fence the same height okay is there anything else that you would like to bring to our attention because we will discuss this um actually the the deck you know once they build a deck I think the deck for my house is the deck is above it's the sem high as we're going to learn all of this in a couple of you know we we we have our notes so yeah so it's really high I uh how to you say it's higher like they can like they can see my second floor whole thing even the light you know even the lights now they don't have a deck you can see the lights one picture is I open the door the backyard door I the picture the lights light in the night lights all my yard and all the lights come to my uh kitchen and whole house and the other the second picture is I take the picture from my house I didn't open the door that's the light affect my house so once they have a deck and they have a five place they have a TV see on the on the revice here they Mark they have a TV that means they will be in the back or most of time so how about the lights the noise that's what I can and besides these these items that you're mentioning may be considered uh conditional items should this application Advance yeah you know because even the Builder that time I objected deck he admit it's too high that's why he he didn't do the that well I'm I'm hung up on the fence to be honest yeah I know I say um that time I don't understand nothing it's not it's not the current owner's the current owner purchased the property and what the current owner and his family saw was a 5ft fence in the backyard so that's something for us to think about um what else I think actually the distance from you're concerned about the rear yard setback yeah how is to your home oh the new one is 15 I think new one the deck would be 15 the the deck in the patio 15 ft from your house is probably 20t to the to the fence um patio should be 19 I mean I'm looking at the old resolution it says the patio is supposed to be currently 20 feet from the fence right Mr holl testified the patio will be approximately 19 to 20 feet from Mrs Lee's property line on discussion the applican stipulated that installing either a 5ft tall vinyl fence or landscape buffering to mitigate the impact of The Proposal on this Mrs Lee's property Mrs Lee requested that the fence be put in but prior to that it it states that no raid changes were going to be made and obviously a grade change absolutely fence yep y yeah the 5 foot fence was you know you you if you fill the the Earth the five foot fence that's why I'm saying with the course don't have that wall exists it's very easy to to realize that it's eight plus he fence when it was agreed upon by this board in 2019 the maximum was five so um did you have any other comments because we're going to ask the applicants put questions related to your testimony the evenement right now I just uh I feel you know this the distance the the deck to the to the fence and to my house I think it's too close it's 15 feet from from proposed to to the to the fence and it's probably 20 feet towards your house right I don't think well 12 Pao propos the the deck is 15 the patio is 12 on the plan that patio's proposing patio is 15 the patio is 12 I okay okay all right there it is okay okay anything else I don't remember opportunity because we do have to move on with the application yeah let me see typically we afford five or 10 minutes for the applicant the uh concerned residents but we can allow some flexibility this evening but we do have to move the appliation okay anyway I I just uh think about the you know they don't have enough this it's very short distance to build those things um I don't remember things maybe later I can't he something it's okay well thank you very much for joining us this evening yeah thank you and thank you for sharing your Mr Joy did you have an opportunity to review the package that was provided uh yes okay thank can you tell us the let's talk about the covered deck from grave the chimney what is the highest from grave to the top of the chimney because what type of fireplace is it wood burning or is it gas gas fireplace so there's a float how tall 14t 14t from the grass cor the and how wide is it 5T wide [Music] and the the patio uh the the deck from the ground two two feet plus the top and how tall is the top what is what is the height of the cover from grade to the PE um proximately 12 feet 12 feet and then two additional feet for the chimney right offered at a a 15 foot rear yard setback and the patio is 12 right it's unfortunate that the the fence is an issue but you bought the house and someone did something that wasn't exactly what this board agreed to and so I understand what's the ISS the grade the grade some your your backyard was somewhere along the line balanced out to give a level backyard it must have been a slope there was fill from excavation to balance out the and we've experienced this with other applications as well so now we've balanced out and to balance out your the side of your yard that's closest to the brook he added three courses of block to make a retaining wall to make it a level area yeah so then on top of that on top of the wall he put the fence and the fence and the retaining wall is 8 feet when five feet was what was agreed upon and it's clear that Mr kello just identified on the resolution that there was no great change whatsoever or that would have been a whole topography there's one clarification if it's not clear there's so the fence doesn't go all the way to the brook there's probably about 20 15 to 20 ft and that's where you see I guess in one of her pictures that's where it kind of slopes drastically downwards towards the brook right um but there's behind this Le property the retaining W exists and it wasn't there before and that's not you it's the I don't want to blame anyone but it sounds like it may have been the developer who sold this house uh he provided a balanced backyard at time uh Miss West any comments about the application as a whole we have some impervious coverage concerns we have rear yard setbacks fence is a tough one because it was not created by the Apple kit before us this evening and honestly by making the fence lower yeah EX makes it wor absolutely yeah yeah and the uh what height vegetation will you planning to plant at installation um again the Evergreens probably about greater than the height of the fence that exists correct correct to create yeah and and maybe it's evident in the maybe it is evident in those renderings but um some sort of blocking like to the right and left of the fireplace so that it you know we wouldn't there's no um there's a blockage to the house behind us there's a question um I don't have any questions but I do have um the same concerns in terms of the uh lock coverage size as well as the fencing um in uh with resp Mr Sylvester in addition to miss West I'm concerned with the 15 foot rear sit back if I went here to that Podium I'll bet that's 15 feet that's pretty close does the 15 feet include the chimney or exclude the chimney is it 15 ft plus two or is it is it 13t plus it's 15 ft to the chimney but you know in the original um resolution it also stated um that the um patio was going to be 19 to 20 feet from her property so that was what was originally and now we're making that even smaller so that you know that is of concern you repeat that so in the original if you go to number 12 it states that m Hollows testify that the patio will be approximately 19 to 20 ft from Miss Miss Le's property line so now we're thinking of moving a structure when the original plan for building was you know 19 to 20 feet now we're looking at 12 and 15 Mr England yeah so I I have some sensitivity to this there's a a house that's four houses down from m that received a variance for a very short setback and the house that's behind it um you know when you talk about 15 ft it's kind of abstract when you're sitting in the yard and there's a structure a deck that's 15 ft away it's amazing how close that is and how loud that is so I have a lot of empathy with Miss Lee and her concerns with that deck being so close and then the patio is even closer um it's 12 ft so um I yeah I have some concerns about that Mr yeah I I also have concerns about very short setback um would you have any consideration to shorten it dep of the whole project the de and make it wider go to the end that it happens yeah how much shorter well I mean you could pick up some square feet on that side and then just shorten it or even just I I know you say you're kind of fixed on the P papers but if you shorten it back and went all the way across the whole back of the struction yeah it it's a possibility just to my existing setback is 177 at the moment so it would be shorting it even 177 to what to the end of the patio area yeah so and I think what what's sensitive here is not your fault yeah right you you bought something that wasn't agreed to right so um defense is not supposed to be the patio should have been 20t off the property line not 17 ft not these are things that are not your fault so have you not touched anything everything would just stay as is right because you inherited something that's not your fault if you want to make improvements to it what we want to try to do is you know kind of get it back to where some agreements were made when and how to protect and I think what the board is saying is if you bring the patio back into that 20 foot marker which makes a 13t depth off the house right now you've got it post at 18 ft so you would it'd be about 13 ft you could go the full width as Mr G said of your house right and if you did it in decking and I know that raises it up but with your trees that you're going to put in that should mitigate the height difference right that you seeing over and them seeing over and you would pick up the square footage left and right and by doing it as deck instead of stone you reduce the total impervious coverage by almost 4% bring you really close to the 25% which is what the town allows anyway um I don't again you would have to talk to your designer your architect and your family to see with something 13 foot off the house and then the full length that you'd be able to use the full length again in in a deck um some covered some not it really wouldn't matter because you'd still be under coverage because none of the deck counts anyway as coverage but that's that's a way to uh bring it back in line with the original resolution which should have been 9 20 fo off the house not 17 to begin with and um by pulling it in and making it longer you still get square footage and and your treeing provides for both you and your neighbor hard part is this is your second time here and but you've got to talk to family and designer to see how it lays out and we do appreciate the adjustments you made it's just we yeah to be fair to get it back to the I guess the what it should have been um I'm getting P it almost feels like I'm penalized for um someone else's prior mistakes no we're not even we're not even going there yet no no but you can keep what you have right your Pat you have no one saying Hey That's supposed to be 192 Fe move it back you bought it that way yeah shame on them for doing it wrong so you're not being penalized that you can keep that there right CU that's yours you can you can work around that if you wanted to somehow um if you want to continue to leave that where it is right just back to it that's it is where it is now nothing was there you'd still be here in front of us and we still be having the same conversation so you're not being penalized because that de we still be having this conversation that was y yeah then my comment is you know I again I'm as the board is I'm hung up with the setback if we were to take the wood deck and change the whole project I'm just throwing this out here and you could tell me no change the entire project to patio right and because you've got the Patty you you've got the wooden deck and the wooden deck counts towards impervious coverage anyway and we move the roof and we create a longer patio and then we move the you want I know you want the fireplace feature if we put the fireplace feature at the eastern most portion of your property closer to the reparan Zone it is not adj it is no longer adjacent to your neighbor's parcel so you still get the benefit of the chimney on the opposite side of the house closer to the brook you've got the P the double patio uncovered at a 20 foot buffer from separation from the neighbor's property we totally understand that you bought a house and had no idea of what the situation was with a change of topography and we're not going there it's a you know on your side it's a 5ft fence it's it's a negative impact but this should have been addressed uh quite some time ago appreciate that the applicant is here to share you know the tale but that's something you've heard a lot from this board and to be perfectly honest with you I know we're not going to be recreating this fall in the backyard my suggestion is and I hate to say this is let's put a pin in this because I think you need some discussion at home or with your landscape designer take some of our considerations into consideration and then we will see you at the end of the year for hopefully a spring 2025 project I don't have a very good feeling for you tonight if we vote and we'd like to afford you the opportunity to rethink out your plans because you sensed some of what the board's concerns were and like I said I don't we could vote tonight but I I don't think you got to come out with the outcom I think that's the fair one this well I would agree with you before we send the I would I wasn't here for the preliminary but just want to make sure that right like the board is all all unified in Clint needs to walk out with clear and concise Direction because yeah Jason has gone may I call you Jason yes Jason's gone through this exercise you know 60 days ago and trimed down the plan but it still might not meet our traditional uh so is the concern more the setback than the coverage or combined and I and I because they're two separate issues so we we can't tell him half Stone half and then then he comes back so is it is it setback or coverage for this this project that we're concerned about both I I'm more concerned with this setback I am um well but it is where is the the coverage and I don't know if it's been explained to you these situations where we have they they have done decks but almost the ground level so if if if you were to go all the way across you could come out one or two steps and then just have the decking down lower and you've also by by creating but it is more the the dep of by creating the pervious situation you've eliminated the whole need to spend monies on the storm water management system for a couple of hundred square foot of storm water management requirements one offsets the other we're leaning on the deck for you looking without a roof cover that would be up to up to you right so coverage you can present it I'm I'm sensitive to the covered debt because it's too close to right now I mean right now his existing lot coverage is 22 and a half% right we would afford most applicants a bit over the 25% so if you came in with something that was proposed and again as you're hearing setbacks a big issue right so maybe taking it to kind of how far off you know your house you go if you wanted something covered right that's going to count against your your total but if it's reasonable as you see so most of the applications there's you know allotment otherwise you would even get to be here you know beyond the 25 uh so take a look at that and then figure out what you want to do so the reason the deck is important is because Beyond what's covered the deck doesn't count towards any coverage so if the whole length left and right were deck and you covered a portion of it only what's covered would count towards any coverage issue so when you're redesigning those are the things to take into account is you know how big do you need it to be be functional uh depth right so the first thing I would look at is depth how far off the back of the house I think if you're 13 feet 14 at most you'll be with in range of what was supposed to have been there but it seems right you know that's about how far off the house then your left and right is totally up to you materials are totally up to you but as you do that you'll do your calculations to figure out how far over that 25 if you start with bringing everything back to a setback that we're somewhat comfortable with that in if you did nothing else if you kept exactly the plan that you want to do and brought everything back you're going to gain perious coverage so so it's GNA it's going to lower your imper your impervious percentage if you did nothing else but brought everything back within what we're saying is might be an acceptable setback you're going to gain and I would consider an East Side Fire Pit as opposed to the rear elevation fire pit and move it towards the brook which is further away from the Apple it's beyond it's no longer adjacent fireplace because G if it was wood I've just hung up on the Chim it's just a Mr ringwood's point you know 15 ft is a lot closer when you see the the physical access I'm just thinking of some of the chimneys I've seen on Old Farm Road SM smoke isn't going to be a problem you extended the deck to here would you the fire was here rather than that side but you're you're impacting this there's nothing here true that the only reason why I chose the east side was because it's just fronting the woods in the water it doesn't impact that neighbor on the opposite side makes sense so do you have any questions with make sure we're clear for you go yeah yeah U I like Mr ringwood's um suggestion and and that's kind of what I was thinking if I were to just trim it back and create more of a setback what would that magic number be I guess so if you brought it back you're you're looking at bringing the entire project back about 5 feet in right right now it's about 18t off the house if you bringing it to about 13t off the house so that's why I'm saying discuss it with your planner let them show you the Flow Design um you would gain R how got 5T times what length right that's what I'm looking at yeah I so you saying a 20 foot setback yeah and just so if I went with a 20 foot setback and left everything as is I I would have personally and move the chimney on the east side is that a de breaker you can propose anything you want you're you're we're we're heading in a better Direction than we were when we started this conversation I know the last thing you want to do is go home with a headache and talk about another set of plans but it may be in your best interest to revise the plans taken into consideration for a better opportunity I don't know how the vote it's not could be it could be nine across yes it could be nine across no or a combination they say he decides to move it in 5 foot we vote in the affirmative he could still decline the project down the road he can go home and say hey we got it you know what so you could make an offer we could vote on it you could get the affirmative and then go home and your wife says no way that's too small figure it out and then you have to just decline that proposal and you do another one but if your family says this is what we've got well you're good to go instead and and do I just one more clarifying question if we were to if I were to do the 20 foot set back on the deck and reduce the paer area maybe a couple more feet maybe not necessarily all the way to the 20 foot for me it's got to be the 20 foot thing across and that consistency so it's things to think about I think it's best to carry this meeting to November however that's just to hold your place in line because I I don't know we are so busy for the rest of the year that's why I keep saying spring 2025 project spend some time put your paperwork together but at Le we want to at least give you a date so we're not going through the legal notice process and we're trying to save you some money there so let let's let's say November is it November 21 November 21st however there is not a guarantee that you will be heard because I know there are three applications and one's very large that's already on that night but I want to hold a spot for you if we can accommodate you and you're ready to go yes if not we just carry it to to January 25 which is really where I think it is considering the volume of applications that I know we have for the remainder of to those so would you like vote on this that old project 5 foot in and am I am I set with that once voted on if it's a if it's it's a no it's a no and if it's a yes you can say you know what I want to try something else and you put I would feel more comfortable with a revised set of plans not voting tonight I mean if he just said I'm going to pull everything into 20 foot off he's going to have to revise the plans anyway but that's what's going to be stipulated in the resolution if everybody's okay with it I mean I don't need to see it personally need to see it smaller P smaller if it's the exact same layout just but the numbers have you the impervious coverage numbers will change Yeah Yeah in our favor but I think if we wait also gives him time to deliberate with his neighbor see if he not not with his neighbor per se but to see if he wants to even change with a buyer places and if he can say yes tonight I'm not saying he would but if he can say yes tonight and his family's happy with the plan they can move forward next month if we put him off till January and he comes back in they no where he's going to be January right so voting on it and getting a yes puts him in no harm a no puts him in the same spot as if he's got to come back anyway well no we would actually have to write a resolution saying no then he' had to start over yeah he'd have to start the whole process over again if we say no and it would be registered to C he the only thing you'd have to do differently is he'd have to mail I mean it's totally up to the applicant not up to me right I mean it's it's it's his application if it were I'm just I'm just saying what I would want to do if I were the applicant I don't know if I would want to wait six more months but I think with another issue here is you're saying you want to move the fireplace he doesn't want to move the fireplace right but he's saying if he moves it in 5 ft is he good with the layout if you're not comfortable with that layout and you need to see a revised plan with the fireplace on the each side I personally would rather see there still an issue that revised be resolved that's that's my opinion I just want it to be clean because we've got residential concerns about this lot and there was some actions taken about this parcel that are not the cause of the Apple it but I I think to be fair to Jason we have to tell him that we're either okay with him moving at in5 and leaving the fireplace or tell him he has to move the fireplace I think we owe him that at least yeah and that's my point the I agree I I feel like I would have no direction if I don't know that answer or or some sort of Direction so I mean in a straw poll the whole thing we're in 5T I'm okay with the chimney are we voting or is it a Str well he's not looking for just wants to know I guess where you want a a formal Vote or just kind of know where the chimney needs to be the 5 ft is what you want to know about I really just want to know about the five feet that um I this sounds like there's no downside into for a vote I guess you want to explain the downsides yeah I don't know that you want if you get a denial then you have to start the whole process over you have to Ren notice everybody and you have to significantly change your application or it's barred by what's called ricado which means that you already brought an application so it has has to be sufficiently different is a standard so you can't come back with the same proposal I guess not that's it's risky and I think you heard the concerns of the board so I'm just afraid if you get a denial you're starting all over okay but we could do a straw pull so you know where you stand on if you take the 5 ft away I think that's fair I would be willing to do a straw P if you reduce it 55 foot I'm good with with the layout as is and I'm I'm I agree with that I agree as well I would be a no I'm I'm good with the 5T all the way across the whole B I'm not I'm good with 5 feet across but also five Place move um just because of the height of the have been yes two three five five five right yeah four three four three the affirmative on the edge there's a there's a member here who if he listens to everything and he's here when you do your thing you don't know which way he's going to go the one of the alternates wouldn't vote and the full member would vote assuming he listened to this meeting tonight so he was up to speed we have one open it's not eligible to vote anyway right because there's eight people right they only need seven so that's kind of where you're at all right thank youate so the next steps it's not counting as a vote correct correct correct so then you would be back on November 21st with revised plans and if if you were ready on the the 21st and we are available to accommodate you we certainly well believe me we don't want to push this any further than we have to I'm just sensitive to the magnitude of projects that we already lined up but I know we've got a significant one in we have in December there are large applications the 21st on your V uh with that said may I have a motion to uh Miss wolf can we open up the meeting to members of the public close it and then move to Executive session or do we need to close we should close it formally come back but I mean we don't have to reopen it to members of oh no okay I'd like to make a motion to open upe just for clarification we're carrying application 249 for November 21st yes so you're good to go okay thank you thank you per Mrs Lee we'll be doing this again on November 21st if you want to join us may I get a motion to open up the meeting to members of the public for general questions and comments Mr Kel I make motion second by Mr soris second all in favor the meeting is now open to members of the public that have a question or comment this evening seeing no one may have a motion to close Mr Ringwood second may have a second by Miss West please second thank you all in favor meeting is now closed to members of the public may I get a motion to enter into executive session Mr deia may I have a second by Mr Degan I second that motion all in favor we will to Executive session stop the recording yes [Music] may I get a mo to rejoin the meeting make a motion to rejoin Mr Degan thank you second by Mr Sylvester I second that in favor I the meeting is now reopened uh seeing no one in the audience may I get a motion to close the meeting to members of the public Mr Kellow second by m West I second all in favor great we'll see you everyone on should we make a note that mrus had to leave during executive session yeah I'll put that in yes who made the notion to Second and uh we will see everyone on September 26 enjoy the rest summer everyone Satur yeah I keep tell them and they won't do anything