e e okay good evening I'd like to welcome everyone to the burnard township planning board meeting for June 18th 2024 and we will start the meeting with a salute to the flag allegiance to the flag of the United States of America stand na indivisible liy and justice for all okay I shall Now read the open public meetings statement in accordance with the requirements of the open public meetings law of 1975 notice of this meeting of the planning board of the township of Bernards was posted on the bton board in reception hall of the municipal building Kier Lane Basking Ridge New Jersey was sent to the Bernardsville News whiy New Jersey to the carrier news Bridgewater New Jersey on February 7th 2024 and was electronically mailed to all those people who have requested individual notice the following procedure has been adopted by the burners Township planning board there will be no new cases heard after 10 p.m. and no new Witnesses or testimony will be heard after 10:30 p.m. thank you next item on the agenda is the roll call M keer please chairman deian here uh Mr Crane here Mr kuzo M uh committee MCN and Miss manduk have indicated they are unable to attend this evening um Mr roro here Mr linski here miss Master Angelo here Mr sevil here Mr Rina here M Smith here M mcmanis here Mr drill here uh Mr good is not here this evening Mr SCH here and for the record Miss keer is present chairman you have a quorum you may begin thank you can I have a motion to excuse Mr kuzo Mr MCN and Miss manduk I'll make the motion I'll second all in favor I opposed abstain thank you okay next item is approval of minutes June 4th 2024 regular session uh with regards to the minutes does anyone have any comments I see no comments uh can I have a motion to approve the minutes do that I'll make that motion can second I'm sorry who seconded I made the motion yes I okay Mr Crane yes Mr yoro yes Mr lisinski Yes master Angelo yes Cil yes Mr Rino yes M Smith yes chairman Dean yes thank you okay I'm sorry just GNA look ah had some notes okay so uh Mr quo MCN were not eligible and they're not here he wouldn't have been El anyway we're good okay the next item is the approval of the minutes for the executive session for June 4 2024 can we have a motion to approve the minutes of the executive session I'll make the motion okay I'll second Smith Mr yorio second uh Mr Crane yes Mr yorio yes Mr linski Yes master Angelo yes Mr Cil yes Mr Rino yes Miss Smith yes chairman diversion yes thank you okay so we collect these now right yeah can you just pass them all this way okay next item on the agenda is the uh landscape committee um applicants toput of determinations for Fellowship Village block 9301 lot 33 address 8000 Fellowship Road application number pb13 d006 good evening yes good evening everyone my name is Jennifer Phillips Smith for the record I'm from Gibbons PC and I am here on behalf of the applicant uh Fellowship villag in uh we are back following our appearance in April the discussion as I'm sure all of you remember concerns resolution of issues that came out of the Landscaping committee which came from uh the resolution that was adopted regarding our healthc Care Facility expansion and that was uh pb13 06 after being here in April 3 days later we aranged for a site visit which was the recommendation of this board that was attended by Mr SCH by Miss Pinson by our professionals by Mr Crane and by the chairman and at that time the site was walked there were discussions and there was a plan that came out of it uh we have submitted a plan to you that we believe reflects those discussions that occurred on site so the the first plan was dated April 30th 2024 that's correct we can mark that one however it was submitted into the file yes and the second plan was was submitted yet either I think it was today actually it's dated June 17th yes 2024 and the reason we did that that those plans are largely the same but we did receive Mr SCH memo dated June 14th of 2024 where he indicated that perhaps we uh had an oversight when it came to two clusters of trees and we'll explain that so what we did is we marked those trees on the exhibit we had previously submitted so that when we present tonight there should be no misunderstanding about which trees and which locations um we are in receipt of the two letters from from Mrs Pinson and as we go through we will address what we've submitted why we submitted it how just for the record the first letter from Mrs binson is dated May 20th 2024 correct that's correct and then there's a June 17th 2024 letter from Mrs P that's correct okay right um it was sent to you electronically do you have any hard copies by any chance I do hold on aop got it and do you have the one we submitted today how many extra copies do you have Mrs Pinon about 18 your son submitted this without the chicken scch oh sorry that's your chicken scratch is not in the file what your son I just put in my address I understand what your son emailed in that's the official letter all right so this even we have brought back Christine Courtney our Landscape designer who as we discussed at the last meeting Works under the supervision of architect David FS Mr f is also here as well but what I'd like to do is have um Miss Courtney come up and go over the exhibit that we submitted so that we can identify the the trees that we believe should be planted and their locations okay so hold on they're going to they emailed the plan but I'm sure they have paper I have a paper copy and we also have it loaded up up here as well so first of all can you identify yourself into the microphone for the record I'm Christine Courtney right and you were sworn in on April 16th and you remain under oath correct correct okay and again how do you spell your last name um c o u r t NE y okay so I assume the plan you're going to be showing is the June 17th 2024 plan correct correct yes and just to be clear it is very very very similar to the one that we submitted previously as well we just identified the tree locations that Mr SCH asked us to uh show so we've added them to the plan so I'm going to ask Miss Courtney to go through I'll step to the side but my question is going to be if Miss Courtney you could walk through each of the locations you'll see on the plan there's a b c d we're going to explain what each of those mean what type of tree they are where they're being planted uh and scroll through this exhibit as we do so so miss Courtney I'll turn it over to you how do you change the um screen okay okay hello um so up on the screen is the uh on April 19th when the group of us got together we uh walked the site and came to the conclusion that if we worked with um if we did certain things that everyone would seem to be in agreement that this would be how we could go forward so on this um map again what's up there is the June 17th 2024 plan correct correct and the June 20 the June 17th 2024 plan consists of pages right M you have the first page which um you're calling a map but what would just give me a description for the record of the first page one of the two of you what would you say it has I don't want to overall point okay so this is the first page right what for the record what is that okay so that is the property line between fellowship and Miss pinson's uh backyard why don't we call it an aerial overlay thank you it's an aerial overlay of the of the area at issue correct that's correct okay just for now let's just get it all identifi go to sheet two sheet two we can call this the West Side aerial she sheet three we can call this the east side aial and Sheet four and Sheet four is the 2019 landscape plan with photos is that an accurate description okay so now go to your exhibit just tell everyone what sheet you're on and then go forward explain away okay so we are on sheet one um to the left side of the of the page you see the uh a circle with A3 the A3 is the place where we decided that we would uh plant three Green Giant Arbor uh trees then if you go a little towards the right you go to letter B um and that is where we would like to where we agree to plant three Norway spruce and again if you went to the other sheets you would see where they would be planted correct um on the other sheets you would see where they are planted um so for example a photo ar ar if you go to sheet three correct which is the East Side area mhm you see an A3 and you see three green circles correct so if you want to switch to uh turn to page A3 um I mean I'm sorry to turn to page three you will see that um and so when she's talking about sheet three it's also showing up there on the screen oh I'm sorry there there we go okay so if you turn to page if I turn to page three um you will see it's basically blow up of the plan the same three giant arbores and giant Norway spruce Norway spruce are shown in the Lilac the green Giants are shown in the green then um when we were out on April 19th uh the group had put in Stakes into the ground as to where these uh trees would be going and that's what you see in the uh bottom photo the circles um uh like the ovals that are in the photo that were taken on the day of the site by the way in the photo on the lower right hand corner of sheet three do that happen to be John Crane uh yes that that that's our [Laughter] group justed to reality it wasn't a bad day weatherwise yeah it's called we can call that the crane exhibit so turning to the that was on the east side on the west side can you describe using sheets one and two what's proposed there okay okay so back to page one now um okay so we go over to A5 which is where we had agreed to put in five um giant Spruce green Giants um at so so turn to sheet two yes these are the Green Giant AR for clarification yes yes Green Giant arbites and go to sheet to go to sheet I'll go to sheet to there oh there you go okay um so we have the arbores the green circles on the plan and then the ovals in the photo below are the places where we put the steak in uh to show where the arbores should be planted then next to that you have some red x's and the letter c what does that mean okay so there were also plants or trees in there that were not on an original plan and had been planted there we tagged those to have them um dug up and then removed to area D relocated relocated um and what types of trees are those those are A variation they were in the field and it was the ones that we felt were too um tight and could could move down and those would be transplanted to area D on page two correct correct and that's this page off to the to the far right before we get to the yellow X's let's talk about where where you have e in a circle what does that mean okay so e is the area where we uh decided to extend the fence along the property line I think it was 42 ft and um that that's where that's what uh letter e is showing and you've you're taking that to an area it looks like you've tagged a pine tree there and the fence will extend to there is that correct right that yes we had to make sure we got the right tree it was 40 42 feet okay now let's talk about the yellow exit which were added onto the June 17th plan mhm did you review the memo that mrly prepared dated June 14th 2024 yes I did all right and I'd like to turn to comment four and it it indicates that the applicant's April 30th 2024 landscape plan accurately reflects the consensus reach at the site visit except as follows a says near the West End of the existing fence three Norway spruce or equivalent evergreen trees should be planted as shown on the approved January 14th 2019 landscape plan can you tell me what those yellow X's represent uh those represent three Norway spruce that we figured would also uh I think they were on the original and we wanted to put them back in okay and so those are the three Spruce that are recommended by Mr Sly in 4A of his report is that correct yes okay and then there's a note in yellow highlighting on the bottom of sheet one and I assume the reason you have that note and yellow highlighting is to show that this is the change the June 17th plan and the April 30th plan am I correct yes and also that little note says see page four of this document so let's turn to page four for a little further explanation um can you tell me what's on page four sure so okay so page four pretty much addresses the June 17th memo um the yellow at the bottom is showing the original Three Norway Spruce that um will be added to uh meet up with the original plan so is this showing the approved landscape plan from January 14th 2019 yes and the three Norway spruce that you've highlighted in yellow and then boxed in red those are the three that are referenced in Mr sly's report at 4A is that correct yes and that then translates to the three x's on page two is that correct um well one and one and two one and two yeah okay so Mr SCH memo then had another comment in 4B it said near the southeasterly end of the retention Basin two bald cypress or equivalent deciduous trees should be planted as shown on the approved 114 2019 landscape plan so looking at your page four did you put a red box around those two cypress trees correct so there's a red box around the cypress tree um and they are there they were on the original plan and they're also growing there now planted and and are they in the photo above right they're in the photo right next to it but I wasn't sure when that photo was taken however the photos above were taken on um April 19th of 2024 okay so you verified that in fact the two trees referenced Mr SCH mote 4B do exist and were planted in that location correct yes can we just quickly ask Dave who remains under oath from last time is that out there and you just didn't see it or something like that uh yeah they're definitely out there I saw them today and well the photos show but there I think I picked up a note from a prior plan those trees may not have been planted with the initial set of plantings and on a prior site visit I noted noted they were not there okay so that was your opin probably a mistake by me okay in your opinion though so 4B is s just cross it off the list from my memo got it okay all right so we've now gone through the submission and the change to add those three additional trees marked by the yellow X's Miss Courtney do you believe that this layout is representative with the change of what was agreed to on the site visit yes so I don't have any further questions for Miss Courtney uh we will acknowledge we did receive Miss pinson's letter um but this is our submission this is the submission we've made Mrs vinon is going to have the opportunity to raise all her issues at the appropriate time but now is time for questions for this witness okay so does the board have any questions for Miss Courtney John no I just w't go I should have said I was out there today so I observe what was there today no questions from the board no do we have okay we'll open this uh question session um to public comment no no public questions public questions of this witness of this specific witness thank you anyone from the public have any questions for this witness so my suggestion is why don't we let sit there in front of that microphone and ask her questions and then the witness can answer them from the podium where she currently is um um you you can sit down if you want so the microphone pick up have the microphone yeah I just have as far as the location of things um when I first of all I didn't participate in a lot of the discussion on site I I did see Mr was with Mr Crane planting those Stakes that was good right hold up hold up for one second okay don't comment hold up this question this is for questions for this later going to be able to T okay the what what about what I understood though was that there was going to be um five dug up ones that and where are they going now what's the plan I didn't see today's okay so that um this is the plan this is page two by by the way this is plan was sent to your sonil phone who sent an email back acknowledging on your behalf yes but I didn't I don't have a copy and and this section hasn't changed from April 30th uh the part the question that you have about those five trees right so the second the so they're going to be second page what about what about the weren't there if we go to uh right those right I get that but what about um there were also on the original plan to be uh five JVS out there uh okay so that that would be the uh junipers yes okay so the five there there's a mismatch of um evergreen trees in that in that area that we call the vision cone we we they not are not necessarily junipers but they probably are um and we tagged them that's also on page on this page at the bottom page two which sheet two sheet two at the bottom we tagged the um the trees that we wanted to have uh relocated and we we used your tape the pink yeah and and we we tagged the those trees but so now where are they going to wind up on the other okay so the other side where D is okay and what about okay now are you're hoping to get the fence built or not built or whatever but they would need some kind of plants in front of them yes what would need plants in Fr the fence what the yellow line the extension of the fence the 42t extension of the fence yes that's what they're proposing I don't think they're proposing to put plants in front of the fence right okay am I correct you're not proposing to put plant in front of that fence are you uh correct we are not proposing that okay and then um I'm glad to see the three trees on the other end but nothing else in between except my the other three what else is happening on the stretch between the East the West End and I mean the East End and the Basin okay so between here and here because this is very heavily planted um we did not propose to put something there because we already have um a mature growth trees there which are these what are the what are they I'm not sure at the moment but they're existing I mean on which side of the fence on fellowship's side okay you have the existing oh boy now I'm confused okay I'm I'm not sure about what that means what you're talking about okay showing you existing tree correct me if I'm wrong you're on sheet one of the June 17 2024 plant correct correct yes you show existing trees that look to me to be on the what side of the fence uh Fellowship yeah oh yeah those are the junipers I think right she said she's not sure what they are these the where are the don't guess if you know you know if you don't just say I'm not sure correct I'm not sure okay okay and then but then you're plan to add B is to add uh three Norway spruce okay and um is there it's I just curious if there's any reason why um you wouldn't switch over as I suggested to using um the green Giants in in place of the spruce what's the because we um a good idea I guess if that is something you want to me if the switch out would it's it's the same it could be switched out if that's what you would prefer okay if that's what she would prefer or if that's what the board prefers um both trees Norway what are we plan to you have a plan here okay you have a plan that I assume you're asking for the board to approve correct that's correct so I would suggest you wait until M Pinon presents her case and then she's going to have some asks and then you consult with your attorney before you start saying you're going to change things because what the board's goal has been is to nail this thing down to a plan that he can see before it to decide whether or not to approve okay so just my suggestion the trees Norway spruce and green giant um have very similar attributes okay okay thank you that I think that's I guess you're you're going to get to go yeah they go first okay and then you're going to get to present everything are there any other questions from the public for this witness Mr Edelstein no and there's no one else in the public oh so I so unless you have any redirect do you have any other Witnesses no that is it for us okay so then so now it's the Public's turn to to give their sworn comments and their presentations and I assume Mrs Pinson you want to go first correct yeah I'll wait if you want you can come up if you want to stand you can come to the podium if you want to sit you sit at the table I love you okay okay but if you like it there and you're going to stand can't hear me we don't hear you as well okay okay so just for the record I also sore you in on April 16th correct okay yeah you remain under oath correct sure thank you okay okay um well I had I did make up a very brief memo um and Mr said to keep it simple so for the record we have two memos from Miss Pinson okay so what is your plan does your June 17th memo replace your May 20th memo or does it supplement it meaning do want to go through both May 20th and June 17th or does June 17th replace May 20th I don't know that it's a replacement because I made different kind of observations and I had pictures and stuff in that in that all right so why don't you do whatever you want to do well let me just start with my basic idea that I had um for the whole thing um the first thing was that I thought in regard to the second thing on the agenda which might be um the tree issue with regards talking about the planning board's agenda for this meeting no for well isn't it on is it off now no he's he's asking oh the tree ordinance you're asking about item seven on the planning board's agenda an ordinance referral of ordinance 2553 is that what you're asking about oh well now I've lost my glasses um right table table the those are the wrong glasses okay those are my driving glasses which I sometimes don't wear but anyway um it was about the the tree business on uh okay so it's item seven on the planning board's agenda the ordinance referral of ordinance 2553 which is regards the tree removal and replacement correct yes just understand understand that ordinance has been introduced by the governing body right it's been referred to the planning board for a master plan consistency review it has not been after they review it it's got to go back to the governing body so this ordinance is not in effect yet oh no that's not what I'm talking about okay what I'm talking about is their requests to add on additional issues oh okay and the first issue so it somewhat relates to what you're talking about hold up hold up for a second hold up what you're referring to is I believe in their May 13th letter expansion of scope right they want to expand the scope so I want to weigh in on this to do that huh that's what I want to talk about so under expansion of scope their first item in my opinion is really not an expansion of scope it is Seeking a clarification of the condition 1 D2 because condition 1 d 2 said that to provide greater screening the existing wood fence along the property line of block 9401 Lot 8 shall be extended approximately 50 ft to the agreed upon pine tree end quote so they're not asking to have that expanded they are saying they want to clarify since the what they say what M Smith says in her letter is and this is her May 13th letter defense has been extended and is proposed to be extended 42 ft Fellowship requests that the board acknowledge that the additional proposed fence extension will in fact satisfy this condition 1 D2 okay hold up please Mr SCH slly says in response to that in his memo dated June 14th that he recommends that the board acknowledge that condition to will be satisfied and quite frankly my legal advice to the board is also I believe so that there's no question and no ambiguity at all about condition 1 D2 that the board should acknowledge that that condition has been satisfied that's not an expansion of scope even though she put it under that section she meant clarification okay well I I actually thought that that could on that issue do you want me to speak on that issue not yet okay well hold it hold it the expansion of scope is on our second request okay and that is they requested any additional trees being planted on campus as part of application PB 136 be credited towards the tree replacement requirements in application PB 225 now in this one my legal opinion is the board you can't do this no you can't just say wave a magic wand bof the additional trees that are being imp planted on the campus under the conditions in this approval are somehow going to be credited towards another one if they want to decrease the number of Replacements required in that other application in my opinion they're going to have to file an application for amended site plan approval on the other application and seek an exception from the tree replacement ordinance in order to get that properly before the board so in my opinion that is an expansion in scope and in my opinion I don't think the board has the authority to do that but I don't think you have jurisdiction over that in this application and especially since they have not filed an application for amended s plan approval they haven't filed an application for an exception from the tree replacement requirement and they haven't noticed for it on top of all that so my advice to you is don't even talk about that second one unless the board's not going to why don't we find out you got anyone on the board have a problem with my advice on that expansion of scope on the second one that you don't have jurisdiction you're not entertain it tonight anyone have a problem with that no so shave your breath don't talk about number two now as to number one unless you object if you agree just say I agree that extending the fence they tag that pine tree the actual measurement is 42 feet the condition said approximately 50 feet you have a problem with the board saying well yes I I'd rather have the an extra section because I think okay so tell the board why okay because I I I don't know people just don't get the fact that if that's the spot where the their service road actually is if you looked at one of the site plans you'd see that the line of of my buffer is actually shortened or it's kind of goes over the edge and so I have actually less buffer in that area of their service road when it goes past my property so that's the spot where my property where the road is closest to my property and then of course there's the the building and the that's where the building is huge which is one reason why I would like to have trees along that 42 foot extension which and I said also the if you looked at the other pine trees that were the old pine trees there's only three Survivor survivors and they are one is behind the fence because the tree turned out to have been planted on the property line so it's um there you have the fence section right across and the other Pine is right in front on a right by a post so the pine trees can survive but um that extra 8 ft would give me more uh privacy protection screening all the things that go along with that tight spot like I say where my property is right there the service road is right there and then the building is right there yeah so when we met on was it April 19th yeah uh we looked at this fence extension right uh several times we looked at it different ways I believe the landscape committee agreed with Fellowship that 42 ft was the right amount because if we extended it further it would have run into the I believe the the tree or the roots of the tree so but that's what I was just saying yeah so the other trees are F extending the fence any further I'm personally not inclined to agree to do that I think Fellowship stepped up to the plate on this that's where I was voted you you asked for a vote and I voted no so what we can do is do a straw poll from the planning board make a comment can I yes you may I do recall when you were here last time you had said there was a pine tree and it sounds like you ident IFI the pine tree as to where the fence should go yes so now she's changed her little in congruous that you're asking for even more fencing no no it's just that they're stopping in front of the pine tree instead of in other words it's a matter of a couple of it's a matter of of a few feet because the pine tree was actually 48 feet from what the other fence the fence yes right I think we agreed it should be six full uh lengths of fencing and that was the 48 6 we didn't agree you guys I disagree okay I disagree the planning board members on the landscape committee who visited the site on April 19th along with the fellowship I know I was out voted for sure of course we agreed that 42 would be the right number for that but was trying to explain why it's it's possible the what we're going to is take a straw poll uh with the board uh Unfortunately they all weren't on site only myself and John Crane are are um I want to hear you already explained yeah I'll explain I'll let John John if you can explain it better the concern we had was you could keep the fence straight but if you you'd have to bend the fence around the tree and we concern with the roots of the trees for the with the extra section yeah we want to make sure we don't disturb the we don't want to kill the tree it's a beautiful tree and we don't want to damage the root system you understand listen if you don't let them finish talking before you start talking if anyone wanted a transcript or a recording of This you wouldn't hear both of you so if these guys are talking whoever's talking let finish I apologize that's okay so so again when we visited the site we looked at the tree we looked at the location for the where the fence was to be extended and we decided it was in the best interest of the tree and the fence to make the length 42 feet now John do you have anything else to add to that there was two items we wanted to keep the fence straight and to go around the tree would be very awkward and also kill the roots potentially was yeah so so that's what we we agreed to that's what Fellowship is proposing so you can sure the uh it happens that one of the the other two pine trees yeah like I say it turned out it was on the line and so we crooked the fence so we have an example on the site of a tree that and actually it's protection for the tree it doesn't hurt and this would be in the you know it just wouldn't be a big problem yeah so uh do you think we should have a straw pole yes I do okay so we're going to ask the board based on the information that you have I understand it's very limited and the agreement that was made among myself John Crane and the representative from fellowship Village who are on site at the time was to extend the fence an additional 42 feet from its existing location and for the reasons that Mr Crane just set forth on the record to keep it as straight as possible and to not harm the roots correct that's correct and that's the recommendation of the landscape committee to the full board which you now want a straw pole correct to straw yes so the question is do we extend the fence 42 ft which is the recomend ation of the landscape committee or should we extend it further so I'll start with um Miss Smith can I ask a question yes you may before we begin because I'm not on the landscape committee um Can the landscape committee the members that are here weigh in on are there any alternative measures other than extending defense that you believe could be implemented to assist in remedying Miss P issues for example well okay her issue right now is one more length of fence having it not straight and bring it up to the tree so we're not talking about her other issues that's what you're talking about no I'm saying to address the the underlying issue right the underlying issue is that she needs add she's asking for additional fencing she's asking for an additional couple of feet of fence right is there anything any alternative measure that could be implemented there's no there's no reasonable Al alternative measure to answer your question so the question to you is should we keep it as 42 ft which is the recommendation of the landscape committee yes okay Mr AEL yes M mangelo yes Mr Crane yes Mr Seville yes Mr Rabino yes Mr linski yes I knew it was a loss course but I just had to explain list you're entitled you're entitled to ask well no I just like I say the there are other two other trees on the site but go to your next issue okay so now we so we're we're I still don't quite understand my my point number one which is that the board approve having the Tre that means stop stop stop your point number one in which letter uh oh the one from uh today or yesterday the one from June 17th yeah okay so are we off the May 20th letter now well I I can I'll review in a second if you want I I thought this was more to the point okay and we're going with June 17th letter 1.1 now we we already did 0.1 right okay they're not doing any credit they just said they don't have jurisdiction okay so they're not getting any credit okay they're not getting any credit but they could they're not getting any credit tonight the board doesn't have they could the board doesn't have any jurisdiction and they're not they might they could they're not going to issue an advisory opinion there's nothing before them there's no application filed there's no um notice there's no no amended site plan application there's no request for an exception there's no notice it's not before them tonight it's up to them whether they want to apply for it or not but the board is not going to say oh if you apply for it we're going to Grant okay I'm sorry right okay the second one is about the the Green Giant because um Mr Crane has I did I was not I didn't know about them but now I realize they're the in thing they're all over the place so what you're asking an item two as is that instead of those Norway spruces and instead of the Juniper virginiana you want green giant arvite based on something that Mr Crane said well he said he did say at the last meeting that he thought we should put one in each my whole plan is based on what he suggested but also because I think he he definitely seems to have confidence in the in the green Giants and we have had a problem on the site the last effort Mr Crane's not a landscape professional as far as I know Mr Crane are you a landscape professional but I did research after I after we heard that but um because they seem to be have um can take a bit of shade and they can um uh grow quickly and they can be cut cut off the top to make them stay Fuller and so forth and they and they all and they're very popular so that maybe the popularity is well deserv so are you asking for the green Giants to replace the Norway spruce or the Juniper that are in the new plan yes she is that are not things that are not planted I'm not asking to switch over the whole thing my recommendation from the landscape committee is to is to um use the plan that's proposed that's my personal John do you have a recommendation yeah I think you're the one who talked about the Green Giant well we're getting some aren't we I I I think of variety of of trees would be better than all one one set of trees Pete did you hear what he said we do we have a variety do we have a variety a variety of trees I think would be better than just all green Giants but we're not we've already got the variety that's for sure because that right that mass so that's what we like we like to keep the variety but but I'd like to add variety by adding green Giants that's all how many trees are we talk number of trees that we're talking here should we ask the put it why don't this might go faster let's let's why don't we ask the applicant you heard her request if the applicant's willing to change him out and the board doesn't have a problem with it will shortly save time right just so we're clear about what we're talking about in A3 we are PL what but A3 is green Giants and if Christine I say anything wrong A3 is already green Giants so in A3 we are proposing to plant three green Giants so do you see A3 Mrs Pinson this way anywhere they're planting green Giants she's not talking about she's talking about where you're planting non- green Giants where you're proposing to plant Norway spruce or Juniper virginiana she would like green Giants planted instead on a onetoone basis is that correct yes so I think we might have an issue though because we are relocating existing trees to other spots I just she's only talking about the new trees trees only in other words if they have to buy new trees right let's just stick with let's try because it would then be a variety for sure you understand her request I understand I'm just going to answer it by saying in A3 we are planting the arbor already that you want in A5 we're planting the arbor that you want in B and then where the 3 X's are were're planting the Norway spruce that was requested and so as to those as to b instead of the Norway sprues she's asking that green Giants be planted and what the board is asking you is would you agree to that because if you do you'll save at least 15 minutes or just say no and we move on right why don't you talk to your also just so just so we're very clear in section B the circle with the b in it we're proposing three Norway spruce if the board would like we can change those to three green Giants and that's in page three that's on sheet it's both on sheet one and it's on sheet three Norway and three it's the Lilac ones that you're talking about M so instead of three Norway spruce the applicant will agree to pinson's request that three green Giants be planted now that's is that the only place that you have the ability to replace proposed trees with green Giants but they haven't been purchased yet or the only other place where there is where there are three yellow X's those were already on the approved landscape Plans by this as Norway spruce those have not yet been planted okay so there's three x's in area e and there it's on the approved landscape plan which this board approved way back when and we're going to find out if the applicant is willing to change those three to Green Giant if the board would like those to be green Giants we would not object to changing the three yellow X to Green Giants okay so instead of the Norway sprues shown in E nope not e e no no it's the three yellow X's not e is the just for clarification e is the fence so it's the three yellow X's just to the left of the E those three yellow X's could be yeah it's it's the yellow X's applicant agrees to pinson's request that three green Giants be planted no she's agreeing to pinson's request which would have to be approved by the board okay so that's a total of six green Giants to replace six Norway sprues that's your request correct no it's there's more that that's item number two isn't it that's item two well no but there's also the the um the JVS that are supposed to be going out at the toward it's not even on the map here sort of I don't know yes it is I guess okay in other words the original Plan called for that's what the gal was saying is um somehow mixed in already or something that's the I don't know what you're talking about so there there are no new junipers proposed right there are five trees of various type that have been marked with a red X and I right now I'm on sheet two and those red x's in the middle are being moved over to area they being moved over reloc new trees that they have to buy those are five trees that are out there that they're relocating okay um but if you look at the the old site plan the bottom and look out uh to to the far end the West End yes I think there's five JVS I don't know what I think Mrs P if you look at the screen are you looking is it can you stand up and walk over to Mrs Pinson and see what she's pointing to no no stay right there Dave can you walk over there please case I'm blind or something those good those are the ones those are the newly dug up and transplanted evergreen trees that's what that's what she too says okay so we're switching show her the note Dave that talks about those five red xes the five from the crowded area I understand that to this area those are those five JVS right but I thought we were also having more no like also JVS no they're not they're replacing JVS they're Spruce though they're not JVS or are they I have no idea the ones on the approved plan were JVS the ones that are being transplanted to replace those five on the approved plans are a mix of trees but they're but they currently exist they're digging them up no no I understand I just thought we would get more trees well that's not what they're listen if anyone asked if she asked you if you wanted if you would agree to propose more trees no no they won't agree to that okay because okay is item number two are we finished with item number two I guess that's the answer right so item number three okay that's where it gets really good um I thought we should have more trees on the um whole site from the East to the Basin they we understand that they clustered as a lot of trees in the Basin area that's near the where the service road hits the main road kind of thing going in so on the drawing are you referring to the area A5 and see to the left yeah to the left of that yes right that's the sort of that's the place where um so you're saying you would like to see more trees there because no not there that's where they piled them all in together and very close together okay and that's where um Mr Crane had staked in and that's where the pulled out ones came from that are now going to the West in place of the JVS yeah so where do you want to see new trees between in front of my cedar trees which are in the Middle where the B area there they which page are you looking at I'm look right now I'm looking at the first page page one yeah because I have did you add trees here already we went out those are in the plan his three that he stay are are we talking about area B just so that I'm clear area B is where we are proposing to add three new trees that were shown in the plan is Norway spruce but we've now agreed could be green Giants Mrs Pinson wants more yes and you've already said you're not willing to get more I I think the design is done such that the trees are being put here in a way that we believe they will survive so it's not just about wanting to it's about what makes sense for the for the buffer and we've staked out three staked out the three locations but what how many trees are you actually planting along that whole stretch from the East to the Basin I if in area B we're adding three more Arbor right Norway Brer Arbor if the Border proves Arbor so you're adding six trees and you've already got the um JVS and you've got a couple and got four more so you have four and 10 we're adding three to A3 this one so we're adding three here at A3 these green circles and then we're adding three more for the purple circles which you've asked to be changed purple circles are now going to become green circles correct I just in in terms of that issue well that's a separate issue because my concern is that at the moment they have pretty much a lawn mower Runway there there's no and that would go back to my other letter where there is a picture of if I can find it of what what we have on the site you know they put they have them all bunched by the as you see the little the small dots but um on A5 I guess it is um so they've got a lot of vast assortment of trees there very close very close together whereas there's it's totally sparse there's almost nothing from the Big Pines at the at the East all the way down to that and um I feel like that's that the green Giants that we're going to put in some of them anyway right Mr Crane state three okay so if you don't mind Miss Pinson um your request that in the Health Center parking area a green giant be planted in front of 8 and 1/2 foot fence sections that do not already have a tree planted yes and the applicant was asked if they would be willing to do that and I believe your answer was no that's correct we've we've agreed to what sh on the plan well and my opinion is that the existing plan is is what we agreed to when we visited the site I didn't it's not simply that you it's not simply that you agreed to it that's I assume recommended and my question to m p you said before that even though you were there you didn't participate in that why didn't you participate I missed that discussion how could you miss it if you because I well I went to my car I was I got the pink tape then I went to my then I left my phone I went my yeah I just didn't participate in that part but also also let me just make the point the original suggestion of the pl of the landscape committee was to put um uh green Giants on 7 foot spacing along the whole Space so that was the original I mean somehow we're you're backing away from your original recommendation I don't know that I ever made that or or the landscape committee ever made that recommendation is that another thing that you're saying Mr Crane said I thought I read it in the in the recommendation I think that was an example that was given like such as it's it's in the uh original the February 2023 report I think I'm going to check it was an example not a recation yeah I thought it was a recommendation okay so so for number three the answer is no from the the applicant do we need to take a straw pole yeah you you should take a straw poll in every single one of these 10 items okay the only thing if I could just at least we'll do that okay does everybody have this would you be willing to look at a photograph I'm sorry would you be willing to look at photograph sure I only this is because my point is just hold on for a second bring the I only have three I can I have them are this are these three the same okay hold on in on April 16th we had exhibits P1 which was a photo of the Pine Tree on the end of the fence we had exhibit P2 which was various photos of the pl we didn't allow in P3 or P4 we had P5 which was a survey of the pinion property by avar associat February 23 2006 so now we are going to mark this is one exhibit but has four photos and we're going to mark this exhibit P6 and Mrs Pinson describe what is this a photo of okay that's a photo yeah this is a photo of the health center from my property my yard and um and it was taken by you on April 23 2024 at 6:53 a.m. correct that's the back yes that's what I wrote on the back yes so let's take one of these Center one of these you guys to share one of these you guys share tell the board about this photo and why you want them to consider it and what it has to do what's your request well the the point is that this shows my cedar trees and it shows um on the left hand side it shows a great a big um Russian olive I think uh and so it shows what my okay so these are these are trees on your my side of the property right and I I think it just shows that these old Cedars they they may be 100 years old I don't know how old they are um but they're very thin and not really that the what I wouldn't mind contributing buffer to this property but it doesn't work my my so I need we need to have a screen I need more trees than just three and uh on that in that area and then you might also consider my letter which shows like I say the lawn mower freeway because they basically have put in we've left lots and lots of space where they're just not planting anything not even and that's why I thought the arbor V would be a good bet in those to go in and I thought Mr cran thought or at least and I thought the plan original plan was that um that we should have our riety and more of them because again say they've really condensed the trees in the Basin area which is very poorly drained and in all those trees are in danger but this is more little up land you know it curves up a little bit and with proper uh care uh I think that there's every reason that the arbor should survive and we should have because okay so we're going to we're on we're on item number three so right and then what I'm going to do is um take a poll from the planning board as to whether or not we should consider or agree to your request for item number three can you spell out what we're V did did they get to see any of the pictures yes we all have the pictures I'm sorry so you quantify how many more trees are you asking to be planted there yes back to the next item or well it's the com up the next item no stop for a second item three yes you say that what okay so what are what is item three asked for you make it I wanted to put to go along I mean I I was going to make a slideshow but you you want one tree every seven feet along that fence not sevenet I was the easiest thing was what Mr Crane suggested at the last meeting sorry which was to put one in front of each that's eight and 1/2 fet space in front of each what fence SE of fence ah she wants one tree in front of she wants the trees to screen the fence no she doesn't want them to screen she wants them on the opposite side of the fence what she wants right they should be not on my property their proper but also Stagg that's the next you want a tree every 8 and 1/2 foot foot yes can what's the purp I don't understand what's the purpose of having a tree in front of she's trying to fill in these holes don't you see the picture I've lost because I don't have screening that works but are these even mature trees that are going to solve the problem no of course not that we all of this we have to wait years and years years I mean all the trees that are in the Basin area we call it the Basin area that's where the right you can see them up there all those are very small trees okay so what now I think I understand this photo shows a fence yes yes how high is the fence what's the six foot so you want trees planted every 8 feet along this fence because they your theory is they going to grow higher than the fence uhhuh I hope and how and you're looking at again green Giants yes and how high are the green Giants do you think they're going to grow well where I think you they can grow depending on the the SI the type they are I understand there are something called Junior green Giants but there's also regular green Giants and they can go very tall especially at this spacing because you see if you drive around town people put them very close together together to make a hedge so this would be somewhere in between where you'd have um and I've also said read that when you jog them which is the next point and when you have them in a spacing that large which isn't huge but it's sort of the medium kind of space okay so you're saying that they grow taller because they're in a so item three and item four are combined that's what you're saying and then item five tells you the numbers okay I just looked this up it says green Giants can grow okay you can't testify don't become a witness you're not you shouldn't be looking anything up if Dave SCH can look things up Beth mcmanis can look things up not a board member you're a judge you're not looking at okay well thank you anyway okay 6 so can I just clarify something go ahead sorry no go ahead you were about to I'm trying to move on comb we're combining items three four and five but I don't understand something if she wants all green Giants then how does she combine five five says that what does five show how many trees are there now well I'm it shows the fence sections and and it shows the like I say if you start at the at the West at at the East sorry where there's the big toll P read your comment number five well maybe it's a little and tell me what your comment number five count from Eastern end eight there eight fence fence sections until you get to the JVS that are planted there there's a small group of JVS which is five five spaces so you're saying your request items three four and five are eight green Giants is that your request no because I'm just I want to go then to M the next the next block is Mr Crane's three by the pinote tree the next is eight for my Cedars my Cedars extend how many green Giants do you want can we just I told you it's about it's about I that's added up below where I add in extras but I at this point I could add up for this section sorry for that section it would be eight or that could be in other words this could all be adjusted if they wanted because there Vinson if you're going to ask the board to require them to plant more trees you got to tell them how many more they're dying to know how many more trees how many more green Giants do you want all right I would say that this is negotiable in a no okay nothing's negotiable because this is going to be listen Mrs Pinson they do not want to see you or them back here again they want this issue resolved tonight this is not even funny anymore no okay I I believe me I've been having agonies about this for three months so tell them one if okay eight plus 8 is 16 plus Mr Crane's three which are already called for right so on the plan it doesn't count how many additional do you want 8 plus 8 16 and then 3 19 21 25 but like I say since they're not getting any credit for the other trees I thought that that would help ease the pain of um adding more trees but that would just let's just uh reset here so earlier we the six trees we did we we added or changed they we changed them to those were changed they were changed they were changed okay so that's the only change we've made to the plan so far correct okay and her request according to her yeah items three yeah four and five right would result in 25 more green giant is that correct yes like I say I did modify it to down it because my goal is forget the goal we understand that we understand that items three four and five if the board said yes to 3 four or five or if the applicant said they would agree to 3 four and five the total number of addition giant you're looking for is 25 is that correct but I let it go through I take whatever I can get total number let's continue go through 6 7 89 10 we'll get a total number right and then the board will make a decision okay okay so the but in that's the only thing that's additional okay um so then we back to that and we'll vote on the we'll discuss the 25 what's number six planting in Basin as per that's Mr Crane's five plan five okay so hold on is that shown on the plan now yes yes that's on the plan okay so that's we cross that off we don't need to deal with that okay so that's done that's done great and then number seven je green Giants to be planted one in front of 10 fence sections to Pine Tree three Spruce and five isn't that repetitive well the thing about that situation is that it's on the original plane and I I measured from the last planted plant in that in their grouping in the middle the the Basin area out to the Pine Tree 75 ft now some of that's going to be taken up there's there's actually it's a mistake I I looked today and it's only nine section because I didn't get the extra section that I was asking for but so there's there on the original plan there was 20 ft before the pine tree there was planting on the o the original plant there wasn't 75 ft Mr Sly can you uh explain this to the board clarify because I'm not I don't really follow at this point I have no idea what's going on I don't either okay we had a we had an original plan right and we the only thing we know for sure is where the pine tree is so if you look at their is this the same pine tree going yes okay if you look at the original P tree is now if you look at the original plan it calls for um you look at the plan now first of all this is Antiquated because a couple of the the trees have died right but if the Pine Tree by way there a maintenance guarantee on the trees that have died okay so can you describe where the 10 fence sections are and that that just item number seven you want green Giants planted one in front of 10 fence sections okay but I just said that's actually nine okay so nine fence sections so we talking about the pine tree is our point of reference do you want to go east or west from the pine tree that would be going well it has to be East because that's where the and and so what they've proposed is three the three that were not there before the yellow my suggestion the reason I think I'm Jus you want I would like to see more Arbor because we've already they've already agreed to switch to arborite how many on those three she says eight if she wants three STS and five JVS that's eight in your memo it Spruce in parentheses you on the same item number seven you say three Spruce and five J can you put your glasses on and look at item seven please sorry that's because I thought I was making a plan for that section okay so tell us what you want as I want a I want an arbor VY okay in front of each of the nine sections that are the 42 feet but also because and that would include the three that they just agreed to to switch you want six you want six more would because if six plus the three they already agreed makes nine yes okay yes so and that's why I thought we were cashing in the the JVS to get okay so you want six more arities she want six more green Giants to make a stretch there in front of that would include so then because include what finish your sentence that would include the ones that the three yellows and then more but the reasoning my reasoning is that in the original plan if you look at the plan original plan the pine tree had these plants right there okay and so on their plan what they're suggesting now is they get they plant the three plants but then there's a big there's another 42 ft before you get to the Pine Tree all right so add six add six we got it add six green Giants okay that's number seven so number eight from Pine Tree 105t to curve in service road five spruce trees space between deciduous trees yes I okay yes that would five spruce trees that would be the dug UPS okay and and I just who who W those those are The Replacements those are going to dig them up and plant them somewhere else to to fit in with the five that are going the five arbites that are going in five something or others are coming out I don't understand talking about the ones that were reloc right so there's there are five being relocated here so does the relocation of those five satisfy your comment they would go beyond that's what that is about yes that's sa what do you mean that's what that is about does their plan satisfy your comment number eight yes or no well if if they do follow what I'm saying because I went out there and they you see the problem we don't understand what you're saying okay because I wasn't I was suggested I not have any slides or anything so I could have shown you all but there's picture okay here's the question the five spruce trees that you're requesting in item number eight is that what you're requesting five I thought they were Spruce but they're telling me the Doug UPS I thought were Spruce so those they're just whatevers okay and those whatevers could be nicely situated in between the decis so they're moving they're moving five trees it sounds like to in front of the fence does that satisfy your number no she wants those fives move somewhere else that's what she's saying no we're all confused what do you see okay you go back to the to the midsection where five um the red marks are being moved right the red guys are moving and because Mr Crane put in five Arbor VY GG's we call okay so they those guys I thought were going to be spruce trees coming out but says they're just whatever okay what and where where are you proposing that those should in your plan where are you asking for those five trees to go pretty much beyond the the end of the fence pretty much how you have them except I did have this I was out there and I have a suggestion which they can go there there's these kind of said I think they're maple trees so you put one there's the maple trees are at 25 ft from the pine 53 feet from the pine and 80 and then 105 is the final stretch and they could be nicely situated in that space and that's I don't think a problem so are you talking about the five trees that they're relocating yes you're identifying a different location from where they're proposing I'm just saying I'm refining the location okay so we're refining so the five spruce trees uh we just right here change location change location looking for just so I'm clear they're in the same location I think Mrs Pinson is saying but she's giving us has very specific places I believe group together it's an agreement it's agreement and I'm not saying we agree to that because I couldn't tell you today if there's understand an issue with an exact placement okay okay if I can add yeah I would love to hear from you yeah maybe too much talking here for a guy d d is on correct me if I'm wrong Dave D was the actual where the trees were supposed to go on the original landscape plan right yes okay so if you want those to be moved it's it's varying from the approved landscape want to be refined within that I don't want to be she doesn't she doesn't want major relocations minor ref just a suggestion right okay so number nine total new green Giants now we're up to 43 does this include the 25 trees where does this come from where does the 43 come from uh it includes um um this eight that theyve agreed the eight now they agreed to swap out to give you six you wanted items three four and five 24 25 more green Giants for item seven you wanted six additional green Giants so does that it up to 43 or you want more green Giants somewhere else and you haven't told us yet no we're we're we're there uh on the whole thing we're going to cross out number nine that's a total because you gave us specifics you said items three four and five that's 25 green Giants item seven is six additional green Giants 25 and six is 31 green Giants not 43 I I think maybe I was adding in Mr you were you were adding in some of those others that you wanted to swap out and they agreed to swap them out right so but there still green Giants I don't I'm I I don't know okay and item 10 says sizes to be determined what does that mean that means I'm well it's the same thing with whether to put the trees in front of the in front of the pine trees in other words there are certain issues that you'd have to go out in the field and decide and there's listen I know you already said that though we're not going back out in the field okay we're not having another hearing no no we don't have to have a hearing what size I would thought you asking for I would say planting size you ask for you want me to ask for size yes we do okay yes I do I can't speak for yes we do well there's some that were already Mr Crane already specified or somebody specified we six we're seven boom to the he's my avatar you know but um but the seven this there's seven Footers were what were specified for the ones that are suggested I would go for whatever okay and a matter of fact I'd even be willing to chip in on it but um but that's what I'm saying it's negotiable because I don't know what I want is the one that's the price that's the tree that's the Le most likely to succeed as you read online oh well I planted a short one and a had a suggestion could you quickly confer with your landscape person and come back with a recommendation of the size of the green Giants with the the most important thing is the likelihood to succeed in growth so on the plans we have specified green Giants at s to8 feet in planting height at planting eight feet at planting that sounds High to me you want them lower because I'm I don't want them I want them to get a good start I don't know I'm not an expert either you know yeah but they experts suggested okay I would I would say in my head I would think five to six fo foot but you their export has suggested 7 to 8 ft you want to go against their expert yeah yep our plans show 7 to8 foot Green Giant your expert back up here please for one minute because maybe they put seven to eight feet there because maybe they thought that's what Mrs Pinson wanted so if the sole criteria for selecting the size of the green Giants at planted is likelihood to succeed in your professional opinion what is better better to plant at the time of planting a five to six foot Green Giant or a seven to eight foot Green Giant um my opinion is that it wouldn't it should not matter um 7 to eight is further along it's uh larger but a small plant um will just take longer to get catch up okay I'm going to make a recommendation to the board and that is we go with the seven to eight as proposed on a plan I like toar trees and end this conversation so can we thank you very much can can I can I make one final statement yes you may okay um I feel like in spite of everything that's gone on that um I'm entitled to have the my property there development screened and it's not working with my trees are not doing the job and so I I really think that it's not just it's just a question that that it's an obligation for them to provide screening and like I say what we got from them is a lawn mower freeway right okay count rep thank you and we'll wait for can can you hold up for one second yes to be screen but the I'm gonna ask Mr SCH who remains under oath what does the to what does the township what is the requirement when it comes to Perimeter buer screening is it 100% screening or is is there some standard in the ordinance because in in my opinion the condition at issue right condition number 17 the Landscaping committee said and I'm reading out of the resolution but it's also in Mr schwai's memo condition let me just I want to read it correctly says after installation of Trees and Landscaping have reflected on the buffer plan and in accordance with the planning board's rules and regulations the Landscaping Committee of the planning board shall inspect the site and determine whether any additional Trees and Landscaping shall be required to be installed along the Pinson property line and M Pinson shall be provided with notice prior to the committee making its site visit so she can be present for the site visit and offer input to the committee now can if I may there is a finding in the board's resolution that I think is very um on points first speak louder and tell me where the finding is sure this is resolution for application 136 correct that's correct from October 18th 2016 what page 35 y item number four it says finally from it it says finally I'm I'm going to read the whole thing okay are you sure that that's the condition okay finally as to screening I'm not going to talk about the shanks this was okay I'm going to read it finally as to screening the shanks they were objectors in the application below they argue in their July 10th 2016 letter that because ordinance section 21- 28.1 requires landscape screens to be designed and constructed in such a manner as to provide a solid barrier obstructing obstructing not blocking obstructing the view of the area to be screened on a yearr round basis that means Evergreens it's impossible to provide screening that complies with ordinance section 21 28.1 when the area to be screened is less than 25 ft or less than 50 ft away or when multi sto structures are involved this is the board's finding this argument is an argument for why the ordinance cannot mean what the shanks argue it means this is the board's finding Landscaping which is planted for screening can take anywhere from 5 to 10 years to grow in and up to its design height there's no requirement that landscape screening at the time of planting is required to screen parking areas from Second Story Windows as for the shanks buffer ordinance argument the board rejects the shank screening ordinance arguments as vicious now and to go back that's the find thing you wanted me to read yes in part because it is at the time it was contemplated are we screening from all Second Story views and the board found no we are not that cannot mean what the ordinance intended um it also found in section two on page 35 that what we were proposing on the plans which now we are proposing more complied with the ordinance's buffer requirement at that time I'm going to read this item two says to be board's finding to be clear conditional use ordinance section 21-1 12.3 l16 titled buffering and screening provides that quote a lscape buffer not less than 25 ft shall be planted or installed around the perimeter of developed areas of any CCRC site end quote because it's a CCRC the board finds that the buffer screening provided around the perimeter of develop areas of the fellowship Village property does in fact comply with conditional use ordinance section 21-1 12.3 l16 because the buffering is at least 25 ft in width those are the board's findings again however they had this condition 17 where the landscape committee is supposed to go out there and see if any additional Trees and Landscaping shall be required to be installed against the P along the Pinson property so I'm going to ask Mr SCH is there anything anything else in the ordinance other than those two ordinance sections which I just quoted out of the board's findings in the resolution there's the general buffering section which is referred to in the conditional use section uh the conditional use section refers to section 2143 which is landscaping and shade trees and and um that section refers uh what I'm looking to see is there anything in the ordinance that says that the obligation on the applicant is to provide 100% screening section 2128 which is entitled screening and buffering under 21281 screening where required elsewhere in this chapter visual screens shall be provided through landscaping or other means as approved by the board such screens shall be designed and constructed in such a manner as to provide a solid barrier obstructing the view of the area to be screened on a yearr round basis right and I read that before and the board correct me if I'm wrong the board has interpreted that to mean a fence can satisfy that or a landscaping can satisfy that is that correct yes that's provided for landscaping and fencing is uh specified as elements of the year round basis I assume refers if you're going to have plantings year round it would have to be Evergreen it couldn't be deciduous is that correct if it's plantings right now is there any requirement in any of these ordinance sections that the screen 100% block The View I think that's the most specific it gets in the section just suppos to obstruct it on a year round basis but it doesn't say 100% block The View does it no does it say 100% block The View solid visual screen solid visual screen and the defense can go with the but it's it's not talking nothing's talking about height that's the problem the ordinance is not requiring a minimum height it's see so the fence actually quite frankly is a solid visual screen you're saying it's not high enough right I thought I understand but I'm saying but the ordinance doesn't talk about a minimum height but it's it's still the development like it's not from my second story it's it's the screen yeah but the lights you're complaining about coming it's not just the lights it's the actual buildings right you're complaining that you can see the buildings what part of the buildings you're complaining about the bottom part of the building or the top part well depending where I'm looking from because I can see from that's one reason I want the screening to go around because if I walk out in my field I can see everything is it not true that you wanted the green Giants because they might grow up to let's say for say 20 ft High and the fence is only how many feet high now six six feet that isn't that why you want the green Giants I want to screen the building and whatever it's on the way but why would you need a 20 foot high Green Giant if not to screen the building the second floor of the building you don't need a 20 foot high Green Giant to screen the first floor of the building do you but the fence won't even do it I understand but my point I'm making and my advice to the board is the ordinance does not require a 100% you can't see any part of the building and the ordinance doesn't require a minimum height the board made findings before this condition is if there were to fill any to fill any gaps this condition is not to revisit the landscap plan that the board approved back when was this resolution adopted 2016 2016 see how long I waited before this so that's my advice to the board and quite frankly I think you guys should now okay uh strw hold the rest of it so the straw hold number two the applicant agreed to plan to switch out 3 plus three green Giants instead of three plus three Norway sprues so crossed out item one the board uh stold yeah they'll go for item two because the applicant agreed so now you have items three four and five of the package which would be 25 additional green Giants the applicant has said we do not consent so the board should strule itself in my opinion on whether over the objection of the applicant the board should require 25 additional green Giants for items three four and five and someone should start okay so um let's have a straw poll for items three four and five to whether or not you think we should add 25 trees um in addition to the uh plan proposed the revised plan that was uh reviewed with the um on site with the landscape committee so in addition to the plan uh should [Music] we allow for 25 more you require re 25 additional green Giants so actually I'm going to start in this end I'll start with you Mr Crane no Mr Seville no Mr ladzinski no Mr Rabino no M mangelo no Mr yorio no Miss Smith no and I'm a no okay so U item six we crossed out because that the applicant's plan already shows that item seven um M Pinson wants six additional green Giants and the applicant because again it's additional has they don't agree they have not consented so can you strw poll on whether to require six additional green Giants as requested by Mrs binson in item seven over the objection of the applicant okay so we will have a STW pole can I say one thing no you you you presented everything okay well but that was a part of the plan the original plan listen right you said that before also okay so we're going to straw poll the six additional uh green Giants M mangula no Mr ororo no Miss Smith no Mr Crane no Mr Seville no Mr linski no Mr Rino no and I'm a no now the the item eight is that was the change item eight is to minor location changes but I don't know quite frankly how you do this without going back out in the field and frankly I think that would be a really bad idea under the circumstances but that's not legal advice that's just my observ landscape committee already visited the site and uh we decided to upon the locations yeah so with regards to miss Pinson wants the ability in item a to go out there and I'm not saying this in a derogatory Manner and micromanage no I don't care the they figure it out I don't okay okay so that's not an issue then so you're withdrawing that request they're already agreed to take them out and put them in that area they when they look at the spot they'll say probably come up with the same idea I did think it was a are you withdrawing the request for number eight or do you want the minor location changes well if they are changes then I want them if that's what it amounts to they're them out of the ground from one area and they're marking on their plan where they're going you said in item eight that you weren't exactly satisfied with exactly where they wanted and you wanted a minor a minor adjustment in the location do you still want that or are you trusting them to put them where they go I I'd like to have them as I describ right she'd like to be able to go out there go out there it's self evident we're going to stro Hole as to whether or not what I mentioned those are thee locations that appr these these weren't something new the Landscaping committee came up with correct so these are on the original plan yes yeah okay I know they were on the original plan they weren't planted they were put somewhere else no I understand we're going to relocate them to where they were originally approved so the straw pole is but again I I don't want to keep on beeding this dead horse she wants the ability I understand that to have input in the minor loc minor location adjustment so the straw pole is for the five trees I believe is five to be planted as originally designed or do we as shown on their plan that's originally designed on the June yes or do we allow Miss Pinson to uh have input on where these five trees get relocated to so I'll start down at the end with Miss Smith again for the question is whether input is allowed yes no Mr yorio no M mangela no Mr Crane no Mr Seville no Mr linski no Mr Rino no I'm a no okay finally item eight is the board satisfied that all these green giants that are going to be planted are going to be 7 to8 ft at the time of planting as proposed on the plan yes or no wait that's item number 10 is it I'm sorry I yeah I am sorry about that that's item 10 because number nine is crossed out because we don't need total okay so all now you have me confused I'm sorry I cross out item nine so eight we're done with yeah eight you just said no nine is crossed out that was size of planting she wanted 5 to six fet of planting they're proposing 7 to8 fet of planting their expert says that whether they're five six feet of planting or seven to8 feet of planting they'll have an equal um chance of survival so the question is do we change the plan and which includes the recommendation of the applicants profession right she says they'll get higher quicker if you go seven to eight so do we change the plan or do we U approve to Mr Rino approve as is approve as is uh Mr linski same Mr Seville Mr Crane approve as Mr mangelo M mangelo sorry Mr yorio approve Asis Miss Smith approve Asis and I'm also uh AIS okay so now I suggest that a motion be made can I have one more request it's up to the chairman yes you may have one I just wanted to I we had certain requirements back in 2016 whatever about the soil conditions and all that um to to make sure that that's certified but then I would also like if since I feel like in other words forget about sticking to the plan they totally reconfigured it for themselves so um but if if trees don't survive in that I would like a chance to say don't have to replace it exactly with the same thing in the same place other words that maybe we could stretch out these if if the because I have a because they're so close together and they're in the in their wet feet yeah that if something if they don't make it some sort of a maintenance agreement that they have to replace trees Mr SCH could I relocate when they if a tree dies within two years did they post uh I believe there's a condition of approval that requires Perpetual maintenance on on this buffer area I I didn't bring the resolution with me I'm resolution right now because I believe I found condition number 20 says the soil and the planting zone along the Pinson property line shall be amended according to Rucker Cooperative Extension soil testing laboratory recommendations months in advance of planting the conditions already in there there's another condition that requires the maintenance no I understand but she talked I know but what I'm I was that's one thing she wants to be able to change the species of the tree species and location species and location condition 21 condition 21 says monitor and Perpetual maintenance of screening in vicinity of the Pinson property and it says by the way this resolution was a bear to to draft just so you know this is bringing back very bad memories the screening P fencing Trees and Landscaping in pen in the vicinity of Miss pinson's property shall be monitored and maintained by the applicant in perpetuity for as long as Fellowship Village exists on the property this means if the fencing requires repairs the applicant shall be obligated to repair or replace the fencing if any treeses or Landscaping die or otherwise fail the applicant shall be obligated to replace the planting in perpetuity for as long as Fellowship exists on the property removal of lower limbs will only be allowed if the limbs are dead diseased or diseased and the removal is necessary to protect and promote the health of buffer trees as shall be documented by a certified tree expert or arist she's asking if a tree dies that the tree that's shown on the plan which this condition would require to be replaced that they can switch it out to another one it's up to the board this is not legal advice you think that's a good idea in this case there is no plan the trees were not planted according to the plan they were all jammed together right by some so we'll take one more straw pole um and the straw pole question is should we allow this is this is an audible audible okay audible the request is that if a tree dies she recognizes and points out that condition 21 requires that it be replaced but if it is replaced you'd have to replace what's there and what she's requesting is that we change the species of the tree change the species get more Arbor V of course get more green Giants green Giants or what you know a request is there ever been situation like this in the past where the Builder let's say keeps planning and then the engineer recommends a different species yeah if if the it would be the applicant if they have to replace a tree over and over again and then they're just throwing money away they're going to ask the engineering department can we change this and yeah that's happened before if they see that the green Giants are doing great would be a field change it would be a field change if it was on you know a couple trees based on what Miss Pinson is requesting would her request if was approved by the board would that require a change to the resolution absolutely because it's going to require that instead of just replacing what's there or a field change that they will be GRE Giants I'm going to start with Mr Rino so do we all allow Miss uh pinson's request to have the ability to change the resolution to to allow for the species of the tree to be changed to require the species of the tree the species of a dead tree be changed to Green Giant that's what she's asking well that's not exactly what you you want flexibility right right or I'd actually say that it should go to the engineering department I don't care just it seems like I say to be I think by default they would be allowed to go to the engineering department under the existing condition they would be allowed and if you had a you at that time well I won't know I won't know I don't even know what they planted there hodge podge to satisfy your request for your additional comment about uh allowing an addition a relocation and a different species to be planted in place of what was on the original I'm going to show up all the board okay so Mr Rino I would say no the me place are good enough okay uh Mr linski are we talking about changing the tree changing location or both we're talking about well changing the species not the location I prefer to keep it the way it is uh Mr Seville keep with standard practice Mr Crane I think standard practice by default engineer M Mr Angelo keep it Mr ororo keep it and Miss Smith keep and I'm also keep as this so the motion as I am interpreting basically would be to approve the plan dated June 17 2024 would be to require the landscape plan to be amended to be consistent with the plan that's been submitted to the board date of June 17 2024 with a couple of changes and the changes are item two of Miss pinson's June 17 2024 letter the Al has agreed and the board straw ped yes to instead of planting the Norway the sprs the Norway sprs go with green Giants can I clarify that just that's a total of 12 because those are the new trees to be planted just I believe what was said is that the three trees to be planted in area B would go from waste Bruce to Arbor VY three and B and three and a three and B and the three yellow X's you're right right so the three the three Norway spruce in B and the three yellow X's that were previously identified as Norway spruce yes those six trees would be converted to Arbor that's correct and everything else is getting approved as is and then the request to have something resolution acknowledge that the proposed 42 foot length offense satisfies condition 1 D2 which said approximately 50 ft that would be the motion someone could just say so moved if they wanted to so moved and Dave do you think I missed something I I think I heard you say that what's shown on the the the uh these plans that we have here will be transferred onto an updated landscap plan yes that to replace the one that's in the set part my motion y okay so uh with regards to the motion we need a second I think the chair can I not make the motion Mr Dr can and I will second forgive me um so chair you motioned and I Mr Angel Mr Angel motion Madam Vice chair no he motioned I'm conf chair chair was the motion primary and I was the second thank you and now we need a now we need a roll call I'll try um Mr Crane yes uh Mr eorio yes Mr linski yes Miss Master Angelo yes Mr sevil yes Mr Rino yes Miss Smith yes chairman deman yes thank you okay thank you we thank you for your patience and your diligence to help us work this out thank you for I would like to thank all the parties and I know that sometimes we don't always get what we want but I do think that Fellowship Village showed a lot of patience I think you showed a lot of patience we get to the point where you know we don't always get what we want but we reached a good conclusion I think so thank it's only been 20 years I haven't had anything thank you for your time thank you thank you m pixon thank you I want to hear about the new ordinance is that the next thing okay next item on the agenda is the ordinance referral ordinance 2553 this is an ordinance of the township of Bernards Bernards Bernards I keep saying Bernards Bernards County of Somerset state of New Jersey amending revising and supplementing various sections of the code of the township of Berard burnard burnard burnard chapter 21 revised land use ordinances with regards to tree removal and replacement prior to this let's introduce uh Miss mcmanis Beth McManus who is our new um board planner so I'm gonna fund of caution I'm going to recuse myself just to avoid any appearance of Mr Crane let the record show Mr Crane is recusing himself thank you Mr Crane okay M mcmanis um I think you've sort of met the board members bya by all of our names by the way just for the record I went up to her and I told her it's not normally this way right thank you for your patience it's my pleasure welcome aboard thank you I'm happy to be here tonight uh just for the record I'm really sorry about the first meeting when I was absent I've been doing this for about 20 years and I I swear this the first time I've ever missed a meeting so I'm so sorry to be you guys for that you're excused thank you um so I'm happy to to begin working with you guys and helping uh planning board on whatever topics might come forward whether it's an ordinance you'd like to uh have me assist in in your review or whether it's a planning board application that you're looking for some additional uh guidance on um please keep me in mind for anything that uh that seems of interest to you that you'd like my input on okay um oh just bear with me one minute so drainage we do we this the old one right that was last week I issued a memo on June 13th here's the referral 2553 yeah we I already uh yeah so you're just looking for her her Memo correct her Memo uh M McManus says memo yes I have it I have it so um okay okay so you going to present your memo I'm sorry yeah I'd be happy to um um given this my first time with the board I'm not sure what your preference is uh I thought I might provide a brief overview of the ordinance and then go through the master plan findings but I'm happy to go through as little or as much detail as the board might like um do you have any preference M I don't personally I've read through your memo I thought it was very thorough I I had a few questions but um you know I don't I don't think you need to go through everything unless the board's Pleasures yeah just basically what I think what we're used to is just a summary of the okay of the ordinance and any changes that you can present I also read the memo and I I pointed out to you earlier the only comment I had which was actually raised by Mr Crane was that in 2023 was actually our master plan it was not the reexamination report other than that I personally had no other comments thank you thank you um so the ordinance uh generally speaking it amends the Township's existing tree ordinance and one of the things that that has happened across the state is uh njd has has uh released a tree ordinance that they're having municipalities adopt or perhaps integrate those Provisions into its existing ordinance and what's happened here uh in burnard rather than say repealing your entire tree ordinance and replacing it this is simply L uh an amendment of various parts of of your existing ordinance to reflect the requirements of the njd model ordinance and it seems there are also some additional uh changes to the ordinance I I'm imagining that the governing body took an opportunity to provide other updates and amendments now that it was uh amending the ordinance uh for example some of the administrative requirements in here and so the ordinance I think big picture what it what it's intended to do is to set forth how municipalities can uh regulate tree preservation and tree replacement many municipalities including Bernards had a tree replacement schedule for example those W those varied W widely across municipalities and that is a I think a good example of one of the things that DP has uh has tried to I don't know put its foot down on uh and so they've set forth revised schedule that municipalities need to incorporate into their ordinance and that is just one of the things that this ordinance does and there are a couple of other additional uh I think more noteworthy requirements such as a change to uh some definitions change the way that measurements are occurring so for example we have a new definition for uh dbh or diameter breast height and it's really an update for how trees are measured to determine what size the tree is for example uh there are also uh there's also a change to reflect the new planting standard that you see from the American Hort and simply an update to older landscape standards that municipalities such as Bernards had relied upon and then of course we have some of the more significant standards again that tree replacement schedule some of the uh tree protection standards have also been updated again to reflect uh more of a measurement I would say uh instead of calculating the uh drip line the area of tree protection it instead applies a a standard referred to as the critical root radius and it it really uh uh ensures consistency of regulations for trees uh tree measurements across the state if you think about how municipalities are required to rely upon rsis for example for how sidewalks are constructed how wide they might be same thing for roads I think this is this is similar in the sense that the state is providing guidance for consistency across municipalities and presumably to help developers seeking to do work across the state the ordinance as I said also provides some administrative requirements uh such as giving power to the municipalities uh uh uh shade tree commission as opposed to just simply Township engineer and also provides updates to your checklist to ensure that the information coming before you for your site plan application is is actually what you need to see in order to judge compliance with the ordinance in terms of your master plan consistency I think uh in summary it's entire it's consistent there's nothing in consistent in there and in fact there are several portions of your master plan that actually speak in favor of tre protection and enhanced Tre protection uh ranging from language on page 53 expressing the importance of vegetated buffers along stream corridors uh to some of the goals and objectives for example uh to uh for example uh goal number seven a healthy and diverse inventory of natural and neighborhood Forest is maintained Woodland resources are actively managed to mitigate safety hazards into establish trees lost through acts of God blight and root systems weakened during periods of increased rainfall I think that this is just a a good example of one goal that's exactly in line with what this ordinance intends to produce and then of course there are are a handful of objectives that are also in line with the ordinance specifically conservation environmental resource objectives for example utilize native vegetation as replacement plants and trees in areas of disturbance it doesn't doesn't get more consistent than that not only do we have uh enhanced replacement standards but one of the other provisions of the ordinance is to prioritize use of native plants uh specifically I should say let me rephrase that to prohibit invasive plants and so I'm I'm entirely comfortable stating that your master plan is consistent with the ordinance and I also reviewed the ordinance for any recommendations I might have and um there are none that I'm making for this ordinance okay great so thank you for your summary and your presentation and uh at this time are there any comments from the board m m mangelo so just in terms of the um again I thought it very W done but you referenced the board in this memo but it doesn't say what board um is it earlier in some definition what the board would be or should weic assume that's the planning correct so like page two first paragraph the board May consult with the shade tree commission when I'm referring to board uh I I'll have to I forget if that language was included in the in the ordinance itself but generally it board is intended in my language is intended to refer to both planning board and Zoning Board that seem the same way the okay it's typically defined as the approving Authority whichever board May apply you don't have to specify no it's either or okay and then um so the replacement of trees um same page page two so as I understand this we're get we're starting at a 6 inch dph and it's cutting off at at 33 so we're no longer defining from zero to six there's no replacement tree required is that right that's correct yeah it begins at at 6 in dbh and then so for these larger caliber trees or dbh there there's no longer a scale up so if it's a very large tree it's just four is that correct yeah four inches or greater so there's yeah they're no longer you're not able to differentiate between say for example 36 to 40 in ETC it's just simply uh simply I'm sorry larger than 33 Ines sorry was there a reasoning for that for I I don't know I don't know why D chose to uh to address the standard in that way I mean I I certainly might have some thoughts and suspicions but I've not seen uh D's rationale for that particular figure so anything over that's inconsistent with what we had before well they the lower numbers replacement numbers required for the bigger trees but D does start with six in our ordinance presently starts with 10 uh so that the 6 Seven 8 n in trees which there's a whole lot of those trees when you know you're talking about so now we're going to have replacement for those there will be it'll just be one and there will be fewer fewer replacement trees required for the bigger trees that are coming out but you do have The Replacements yes for for also the issue is not whether the proposed ordinance is consistent or inconsistent with the existing Orin no I know the issue is whether it's consistent or inconsistent with the master plan right I just wanted to understand the um change TP also reduced the size of the minimum size of the replacement tree down to one and a half inch caliber ours is a two and a half we um in this the Land Development ordinance we kept our previous minimum size of 2 and 1/2 in caliber in the um the township already adopted General code that applies to non board applications just a single family homeowners and and not wanting to be any more restrictive than or burdensome than they need to be uh the general code of that applies to the single family homeowners uses the one and a half inch Cal but for this ordinance it was chosen to stick with what we already have not to not to get easier on on that to requ uh 2 and half caliber that we always require as opposed to going with DP is one and a half in does that make sense yeah okay okay any other comments questions on the board I have one on section 21 45.1 removal trees all the way at the bottom you talk about minimum replacement caliber so for a street tree it's three in for a deciduous it's two and a half for the Evergreen shouldn't that say six foot diameter or circumference it should be ever evergreen trees are measured in terms of height typically so it's it's not a diameter it's typically the height of the evergreen tree caliper it's not diamer but but your point though it's it's not labeled in the in the table yeah yeah I thought this was a SE or something yeah no so that should say six foot height right it should say minimum replacement size and then 3 in caliper 2 and2 in Cal right so you the board can make that recommendation that the ordinance be clarified so it's not going to be a substantial change right that would be helpful okay so is that a note that Dave will take Mr we'll put that in the M okay um sorry were there any other comments questions no um we don't do public com this right you don't have to no because only it's not a public hearing okay so it's not a public hearing we're not going to take any comments this evening um so at this point I would ask for a motion uh as to whether or not ordinance 2553 is not inconsistent with our master plan so the question is is it's so weird to say this you have one or three choices it's either consistent yes it's not inconsistent right inconsistent right or if it is inconsistent let's just go with consistent let's keep it simple okay I don't know why you always went with not inconsistent it was we're going with consistent is this ordinance ordinance consistent with our master plan and will make the motion that this ordinance is consistent with our master plan with the yes okay do we have a second on that motion Mr Rabino M kefir can we have a roll call please Mr yes Mr linski yes is Master Angela yes Mr cille yes Mr Rino yes M Smith yes uh chairman deman yes okay that closes item or I'm sorry agenda item number seven and the next item would be do we have any comments from members of the uh board welcome thank you any other comments comments from staff nope no I would also like to thank M welcome M Manis thank you as always thank David SCH for his excellent work Mr Crane has now come in and let the record show Mr Crane com at 9:39 p.m. has have some comments Mr Crane comments please yes um the uh as mentioned before the township had a about a one hour uh webinar or you can see it on the YouTube on affordable housing that we mentioned I thought it was very good and professionals follow professionals very informed um the other uh item I'd like to mention is uh is I was listening on YouTube right here uh uh the shade tree uh ordinance was passed it's kind of like a sister ordinance to this but uh there's going to be over 5,000 single family home homes that are going to be affected in this ordinance so before you cut any trees make sure to read that ordinance and my understanding is that there's going to be a worksheet is a complicated ordinance to read but it's very limited to am trees you can cut without perect so just just keep that in mind that's it okay Mr cran I'd like to actually thank you personally for your help on the landscape committee for fellow Village I'm going to check my tires when I go in all seriousness John did step up I know you he's a very dedicated member of the board and um he's a big help when it comes to these uh landscape committee um committees so that's all I have to say and on that note uh I would ask for would you like to cancel oh yes so the next meeting is scheduled for July the second and I don't believe we have anything on the agenda so I am recommending that we cancel that meeting and the meeting after that would be July 18th uh at this time we don't have anything on the agenda but we're going to keep it on schedule for now is that correct Miss Miss kef will decide and get aend you can just cancel it and if people want to overrule you they can make a motion okay so we're canceling the next meeting the July 2nd meeting yes anyone want to overrule him nope um I believe we did but miss kefir did we excuse the absence of Mr MCN Mr quo and yes Miss Mand yes we did we did y thank you Miss mangela for the reminder on that note uh can I have a motion to adjourn the meeting so Miss Smith second anyone second Mr Seville all favor