e e e e e e e all right good evening everyone like to welcome you to the Bernard's Township planning board meeting for April 16th 2024 and we will begin the meeting with a salute to the Flagg flag of the United States of America the rep for stands one nation indivisible andice okay I will read the open public meeting statement in accordance with the requirements of the open public meetings law of 1975 notice of this meeting of the planning board of the township of Bernards was posted on the bulletin board in the reception hall of the municipal building one ker Lane Basking Ridge New Jersey was sent to the Bernardsville News whipy New Jersey to The Courier News in Bridgewater New Jersey on February 7th 2024 and was electronically mailed to all those people who have requested individual notice the following procedure has been adopted by the burners Township planning board there will be no new cases heard after 10 p.m. and no new Witnesses or testimony will be heard after 10:30 p.m. thank you um oath of office for Nicholas quo was formed prior to meeting the meeting so Nicholas congratulations thank you welcome again um roll call Miss kefir please right chairman Demian here Mr Crane here Mr kuzo here Mr yuo here Mr linski here committee MCN here M manduk here miss Master Angelo here Mr cille here Mr Rabino here M Smith here Mr drill here Mr good here Mr SCH here and for the record Miss Kefir is present chairman you have a quarum you may proceed thank you Miss kefir uh next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes from the February 20th 2024 regular session that motion I will second all those in favor I I some people aren't do a roll call just see who's yes who's no and who's abstaining all right um I can tell you Mr kuzo Mr ororo committeeman MCN and Miss Smith are ineligible they were absent for this meeting uh Mr Crane yes Mr linski yes Miss manduk yes Miss Master Angela yes Mr sevil yes Mr Rabino yes chairman deman uh yes thank you all right try that again thank you okay now we have uh approval of resolutions uh the first one is fellowship Village block 9301 lot 33 address 8,000 Fellowship Road application number pb20 d5b and I suppose we need to do another roll call the uh the date in the upper left hand corner and the version I don't have a copy of it hold on Dave you Mr schide yeah the date is April 3rd 2024 version two okay chairman I'm going to recuse on this matter y okay I'll step outside Mr MCN is recused so should we ask comments if anyone has any additional comments I made all the changes that were that were given okay so does anyone on the board any board member have additional comments I see no hands you should ask board secretary who's eligible to vote on it and then of the eligible people someone you make a motion someone to Second thank you those eligible are chairman deeran Mr Crane Mr linski Miss Mandu Miss Master Angelo Mr Seville and Mr Rino okay so one of those people who are eligible to vote can I have a motion to approve the resolution I'll make that motion chairman I'm sorry who made that Mr CR thank you I will second Mr Crane yes Mr linski yes Miss manduk yes Miss Master Angela yes Mr ceville yes Mr Rino yes chairman deeran yes okay uh the next item is the resolution for OCTA Pharmaceuticals block 2401 Lot 4 address 170 Mount Ary Road application number pb23 d001 and we also need Mr schide do you have the the date the Pharmaceuticals is dated August I'm sorry April 3rd 2024 version 3 okay and again made revisions that were brought to my attention anyone have any additional revisions nope so do we need also eligible voters with the exception of Mr cruzo and Mr Crane everyone else is eligible okay should we do a roll call or a roll call vote well well we need a mo oh I'm sorry motion I'll make motion to approve who is sorry thank you and Mer all righty Mr eorio yes Mr lisinski yes committee MCN yes Miss manduk yes Miss Master Angela yes Mr sevil yes Mr Rubino yes M Smith yes chairman deeran yes thank you okay next item on the agenda is appointment of the planner for the board um that's res resolution 24-02 appointment of Elizabeth mcmanis as board planner if you recall the board has appointed Mr schide as board planning expert and the board's going to appoint the second planning expert and if that planning expert is needed for anything either Mr SCH will say if for example if an affordable housing application came in maybe he would want M mcmanis involved in it or maybe do something else maybe some kind of master plan or whatever what the board said back at RoR yes thank you we should find out from the board secretary or Mr schai has Miss mcmanis been appointed by the township uh Kendra L from the same office has been appointed as a Township's affordable housing planner okay so this is Kyle mcmanis yes and Kendra leely is also in that office yes okay okay so I have in front of me a copy of the resolution do we need I guess there date anything this is the appointment resolution um who was this circulated to uh everybody yes so just like my memorializing resolutions if everyone read it okay so can we have a a motion take a motion to adopt the resolution adopt the resolution appointing Elizabeth mcmanis as the board planner so I I have a second second Tyler point of procedure yeah only regular members not the alternates thank you section n of the thank you uh Mr Crane Mr crank yeah yes Mr cruzo yes Mr yorio yes Mr linski yes committee MCN yes Miss Mandu yes Miss Master Angela yes Mr Tyler I Mr cille yes chairman deman yes thank you okay next item up for bid uh all right so the landscape committee so this is a applicants dispute of determination um Fellowship Village block 9301 lot 33 address 8,000 Fellowship Road this is for for planning board application 13-6 and Mr M I too will uh recuse on this as well okay so can you sure my name is Jennifer Philip Smith and I'm an attorney with Gibbons PC I am here tonight on behalf of Fellowship Village my suggestion is start off with Mr schy to get like a little background for the board and for the public um is this going to be a straight you're going to make the arguments Point by point or you going to have any Witnesses so I do have witnesses because they know Landscaping better than I do as an attorney uh we but we were thinking it wouldn't be so much formal witness witness witness it would be we're going to go through the letter and I will have the people who with expertise respond you know what why don't we get whoever you might call let's get them sworn let's get Mr SCH call and I don't think this involves Mr good right am I correct you are correct okay thank you okay so Mr SCH and whoever on behalf of Fellowship might be involved in this come on up have everyone raised their right hand does everyone swear or affirm the testimony you're going to give this matter will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and start over there yes yes yes yes then everyone stay right there everyone identify themselves for the record your relationship to the board or the as the case may be and with respect to you guys your area of expertise if you're a landscape uh expert if you're the civil engineering expert if you're architect if you just have some position with the applicant whatever okay uh David schy Township planner and board planner uh David FS architect can you spell your last name f w l s Chris black vice president of building projects for Fellowship life how do you spell your last name BL a c k first is Chris you say Chris next Christine Courtney uh Landscape designer okay spell your last name last name is c r t NE Y and you you're an lla you said a landscape designer are you a licensed landscape architect I I am but uh in Pennsylvania and it's Labs Courtney works under the direction of KDA and files is the switch this so I can get this in my mind word go okay um okay so you're she's your consultant she's my employee she's your employee okay so what's your first name again Christine Chris so we're GNA what are we going to call she's the landscape designer yes I just want to make sure right we'll figure this out when we we see what she may have to say and you're in ra correct yes switch around Daniel doer d o u g h e r Ty Dynamic engineering consultants and I'm the civil engineering cons okay that one more Chris how do you pronounce your black oh okay the switch again and what did you say your position was with Fellowship again vice president of building project building project okay now do you want to start off or do you want Dave Sly to start off just to put the thing in context while you're here I did have remarks proposed to provide some context you guys want to relax for a moment so we are here uh in connection with a resolution that was adopted on October 18th 2016 so we're going going way back there have been subsequent approvals related to Fellowship since that time but this Landscaping committee specifically relates back to that resolution so to give everyone here a little bit of context that particular application was before the board for approximately two years for a number of hearings it was a very contentious application involving um several other types of obors and and whatnot there's a lengthy resolution that's resolution it was approved on a 43 vote yeah I I that I don't recall I was and it's like uh how many pages probably gosh there's attachments it's 60 something with some attachments so so we're we're not here to talk about the whole resolution thankfully only small portions of it so a few things just to to put everything in context during those hearings there was a finding on the board and this is on page 35 of the resolution that that the buffer screening provided around the perimeter as proposed of the development developed areas of fellip Village does in fact comply with the conditional use ordinance sections by the way everyone has that resolution in their packet so go to page 35 which sub paragraph you talking sub paragraph two on that page C2 and why don't you just read that into the record uh the entire paragraph says to be clear conditional use ordinance section 21-1 12.3 l16 titled buffering and screening provides that a landscape buffer not less than 25 ft shall be planted or installed around the perimeter of developed areas of any CCRC site the board finds that the buffer screening provided around the perimeter of developed areas of Fellowship Village does in fact comply with the conditional use ordinance section 212. 3. l16 because the buffering is at least 25 ft in with so what was shown on the plans was found at the time to comply if you go down to sub paragraph 4 on that same page I don't know if if I should read all of it but towards the very end of that section it does specifically say that Landscaping which is planted for screening can take anywhere from 5 to 10 years to grow in and up to its design height starting at the last sentence on page 35 correct that's correct and going on to the next page 36 it's attached to your memos does everybody have this because I'm having trouble just I handed out I have handed out her Memo but I sent electronically all of this stuff I do have an extra I do have an extra hard copy of everything yeah so why don't you hand out the extra hard copies of the res yeah and I don't have that much more to read out of here I promise we're not reading all 65 pages but just the rest of that section that goes onto the next page says no but I I I understand the point you're making it's a good point to make it's a good way to do it okay so it says there is no requirement that landscape screening at the time of planting is required to screen parking areas from Second Story windows so at the time the Landscaping was found to comply it was understood that when planted it was going to take time to fill in so there's specifically this is how we came here condition number 17 which I did uh excerpt into the memo that I sent to the board that's on page 53 of the resolution so page 17 please read the page 53 page 53 condition 17 please read that whole thing slowly sure so it says Landscaping committee after installation of Trees and Landscaping as reflected on the buffer plan and in accordance with the planning board rules and regulations the Landscaping Committee of the planning board shall inspect the site and determine whether any additional trees and landscap caping shall be required to be installed along the Pinson property line and Miss Pinson shall be provided with notice prior to the committee making its site visit so that she can be present for the site visit and offer input to the committee the form of notice to Mrs Pinson shall be email at least 14 days prior to the site visit and the committee shall Endeavor to schedule the site visit so that Mrs Pinson can attend and it then goes on to say this condition was agreed to by Brian Lawrence during the October 20th 2015 hearing session as well as the junee the 2016 hearing session now that Landscaping is that perimeter landscaping or is that separate and aart additional Landscaping that came up during the hearing through M pinson's participation in the hearing so I think to answer that question if you look at condition 15 on that same page it it advises that the plan shall be revised if they have not already been revised to incorporate the plan titled landscape plan Development Area B which is also referenced as buffer plan and is identified as sheet L1 . 1B dated January 15 2016 prepared by David W Danton AIA um who was with KDA which includes but is not limited to removal of declining evergreen trees relocating the sidewalk walking path along the property adjacent to Mrs pinson's property line block 9401 Lot 8 to the east towards the road away from Miss pinson's property line as reflected on the buffer plan upgrading Trees and Landscaping to provide the p Hinson property with more buffer screening and providing a 6t high Cedar Batten fence as shown on the buffer plan any all inconsistencies between the remaining drawings and sheets of the plan set and the buffer plan shall be eliminated and that reflected on the buffer plan shall Prevail so I understand that Mr Sly has a copy of that buffer plan that he's going to put up on the screen so I will defer to him for a moment but why are we here we are here because back in 2016 it was determined that there was a buffer plan that was approved that complied with the ordinance but that if more specifically landscaping or trees was needed that the Landscaping committee would review so since that time the improvements have been built there's been submissions back to the Landscaping committee I think there's been you have to keep your voice up oh sorry since I'll get much closer since that time there's been submissions to the Landscaping committee um and there was ultimately a letter that was written back in February of last year that we then worked with the professionals to respond to and put those responses in writing in January uh we submitted that to the board in January we actually resubmitted it in April to clarify once it was determined we were coming back here um back in January we asked to come back before the Landscaping committee to go through Point by point the memo of things that the Landscaping committee was suggesting and identify what could be done and frankly what what couldn't be done um when we actually came here for an unrelated application it in gosh February it was determined it was better for us to just come back before the entire board to discuss this memo so that's what we're here to do this relates all the way back to 2016 but specifically then to a memo that was issued um in February of last year by this board to which we have responded um actually actually just to uh clarify I believe the reason we didn't do it recently because we wanted to give m p Miss Pinson the opportunity to be here that was necessarily to be in front of the whole board for whatever that but then in reviewing right right the board rules and reviewing the resolution this is really the proper mechanism to do understand is if an applicant doesn't agree with a landscape committee determination I understand the appeal mechanism is to go to the board as a whole we're here for correct yes that's what we're here for we also wanted this and we wanted to make sure miss Pinson was here and and for the record Mrs Pinson is is present P can you call so I can get SW but I'm sure you're going to end up saying something or the board's going to end up asking you some questions can you raise your right hand and do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're going to give in this matter will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do can you identify yourself uh Ellen Pinson uh 99 Allen Road Li Liberty Corner that's my local address the Old Farm okay well someone that they have a question for you they'll call you up okay all right so with that we we do want to start going through the letter but I understand Mr SCH probably wants to put even a little bit more background on so I can defer to him to do that and then we'll pick up with the letter I I think the more background the board has the better before you start going Point by Point through the letter okay I don't really know what I would add um well how about the uh the the buffer plan oh we show the buffer plant yeah then I have an initial question for you if you look at page 49 of the resolution let him get his why don't you open to your page and I'm looking at the relief the board granted which started on page 48 but it went on on to page 49 because they granted as number five preliminary and final site plan approval and what it says is subject to the conditions set forth below the board hereby grants preliminary and final site plan approval for the proposed development as reflected on the plans referenced above after they have subsequently signed by the board secretary and has reflected on the documents submitted for approval as referenced above after they have been revised in accordance with the conditions of the within approval so my question is the buffer plan you're going to show has that is that a signed buffer plan or is that a proposed buffer plan is an exhibit from the 2016 approval that where um the condition that was alluded to earlier that the buffer plan shall be reflected into the approved plan set it was the part the upper plan it says landscape plan if everybody can read that yeah Y and the lower plan it says true removal plan y both of those the Landscaping plan that's shown on this buffer plan is exactly reflected on the landscape plans in the approved plan set for this project the tree removal plan shown on the buffer plan is reflected in the removals plan of the approved plan set exactly as it's shown there is the Pinson property reflected on that exhibit the Pinson property is if you can see in each da do we either have a laser poter or we can use the squiggly t I gave you right here this this line right here yes that's the Pinson property line and I was actually before getting too far into this going to show the board an aerial view of what looks like compared to the project so just to clarify for those who may not understand that drawing shows this drawing shows two aerial views this is not one view they're two separate views the lower portion and the upper portion before and after basically that no well the one below you you can't really see the little x's on the trees but some of the trees have X's that's the tree that's which trees were shown to come down have to show the board a couple of trees with x's on them okay see this tree does not have an X this one does this one does this one does these four do this one does not have an X all of these trees do so if everyone kind of get in your mind that area of the plan and now scroll up to the proposed bu is the landscape plan you can see this tree and this tree were one of the existing ones that were to remain that one and that one and these are proposed plantings proposed as new and for example the left hand side says five five JV I think that jiper viridiana or five whatever that tree is five of those yeah right three PAB right nine PAB right shows how many trees in what type yeah there's a legend on the plan that says what those PJ uh pabs are um now you going to show the yeah this is something I just threw together um to give the board an idea of where so the area outlined in red is fellowship Villages campus the entire property 70 plus acres Mrs pinson's property is here this black line is her property line goes and this is Allen Road a little bit of her property is not shown and she owns up to this line right here the board may recall uh I don't know if it was last year the year before we heard an application from fellowship Village for staff housing this is this lot right here is that is that staff housing lot which will ultimately be merged with the campus and the this area in the front of that lot is the area where the uh staff housing building and parking area was approved not yet started on that project where is the area along Pon property that bu fellowship with this Landscaping issue right so this is Mrs pinson's house here and her property this is her property line going back and right in this area here that's the area in question there the area in question right about near the near right here to about here is the area in question where it's open it's it's wooded here and it's wooded here the fielded area where there's more visual um where you can see through or you could before the fence went up um is is the area that's shown on the buffer PL do you think the Board needs any more background um well I can just show you a little bit closer this is the area we're talking about was that area always open that field that would be a question from Mrs pin it's been open as far for the last 25 years um or more um I again I'm not testifying but I believe that's why she had asked for some buff I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a change circumstance but David if you have more backgr give the board more background if you don't then we're gonna ask Miss Smith if she has more background before we get into it I don't think I've been I mean unless the board has a question um there's a lot of yeah not yet slowly building all right I think the best thing at this point is to ask Mr fs and Miss Courtney to come up because what I'd like to do is before we dive into the letter I'd like to have them talk about this buffer plan and specifically what from the plan exists today so that we're clear so I'll I'll start with Miss Courtney you know ex today Christine Knows What exist So Christine walked the site today as the landscape designer Sugg is to have her testify as a lay witness and not an expert she's she's relaying what exists you need her to give any expert testimony I was that he can't give well I can have Mr FS verify anything that that we think is expert testimony how about that right nowness sure that's fine nous noted in correct she's a witness perfect so you probably need to use that unless you want to come stand here okay so I will I will sit there and where was the yeah so miss Courtney we are looking at the landscape plan that was referenced in the resolution the one that was dated from from January 2016 if you could just identify go kind of go Tree by Tree in that buffer area and identify what's actually on the ground to and before we do that just for the record did you personally walk this area of the fellowship site today I did I have yes I did that today and I've done it in the past okay so if you can go through and identify what trees uh exist and whether they are reflected here on the plans okay so these five uh trees are there of the existing plants I mean of the proposed plants that were put in these three have also been put in these nine have been put in um this one this one PAB has been put in these two pabs have been put in and these five um five JVS have been put in Jun junipers Juniper so put it this are there any trees shown on that landscape buffer plan that have not been put in on this plan no in a future plan when things changed there were three trees added let's not talk about okay any trees that are shown to be installed on this plan have not been installed these these trees that have been shown on this plan have all been installed and then there have been some more okay can you identify where on the site there have been in this portion of Fellowship village where there have been additional new plants installed do have an exhibit to show where the new plantings have been we did actually but it did not get loaded in so if I will have just miss Courtney identify where where they are her experience and later we will we have photos of it from we won't be able to use them okay okay they're not in in the letter there may be an exhibit in the letter but for start with just where are they how many trees did you count in that General location okay so so there are nine evergreen trees in this area the N9 pabs currently there are 17 trees in that area um 17 evergreen trees and two uh large deciduous trees are you talking about that that area that area yes do me favor so there is a a letter to the board from M Smith which is dated April 10 and there attachment s and on one of on exhibit B at the top of exhibit B there's a plan can you give the witness back and ask her this is what she's describing it be a lot have a copy of this yes okay thank you keep scrolling were you talking about that those that shows so this area here is the same nine um the nine Evergreen plants that were on the the plan that we were just looking at today when walking the site M so scroll back to the plan to the plan that plan show more trees than we on the buffer plan that was up on the screen before no this plan shows the same the plan the drawing plan shows nine m nine plants nine evergreen trees what's planted there when I walked today and in the past I counted there's 17 evergreen trees and two deciduous do we have a plan that shows that we do not have a plan um it is my understanding that trees were planted there as time went on when they had an extra tree because they knew that that was a problem area and wanted to um Build It Up you see what's going to happen we okay I'm seeing the future going to get up yeah she's going to talk about well the be there he might be there and they're going to say well no no the tre's here but we don't have a plan showing these extra trees Okay so we've established it appears we've established that you've planted in excess more trees than were required by the plant can we all agree on that that's for Testimony have you been yes I have okay so the people around there you're not testifying but it's as if you did a site visit so you guys can confirm are there more trees out there than were shown on the plan there's a plan in the letter that shows the survey where was that plan it's uh I'm scrolling I exhibit D there's a plan that says existing landscape as per site survey November 2 2023 that's got get us closer it's like the third plan behind where it says exhibit D third plan behind exhib yeah that one the one that says blow up Pinson property view lines cone correct yes does that exhibit show what you talking about yes and it's dated November 2nd 2023 so and I was out there today and that this is still the way it looks great okay so I'd like to start going through the letter and so we submitted this letter I know we just pulled it up I'm going to go off the one dated April 10th of 2024 so in it we repeated the comments that were given by the Landscaping committee um and I'm just going to read them off one by one and we'll go through one by one okay one by one so you probably need to back to exhibit yeah all right so the first comment was portions of the fence had significant gaps between the bottom of the fence and Grading currently light and other visual nuances can be seen from Miss Pinson side of the fence and it says note as of 21923 it appears an attempt was made by applicants to remediate the gaps at the bottom of the fence however significant gaps remain still so I if I if you don't mind just to speed things up a little bit um so just for everyone on the board's knowledge and everyone in the audience the landscape committee for this project was myself um Lauren mandu and John Crane that's John so the three of us put our notes together I sent the email to David SCH who related to the applicant okay regarding this item number one which was the gaps underneath the fence I believe we agreed I think they added some soil and we agreed this one's really not an issue anymore is that is that is that correct excellent so can we okay so hold on let's nail it down you were out there you saw some additional soil I did not see gaps that exceeded 6 in guys are satisfied that this one is resolved wait it's resolved there are gaps but we're going to move on it's six seven inches we're not going to split hairs over it and number one WR go to number two okay so This concerns hold on hold on hold on hold on we need Pon have opportunity might not be satisfied that number one's resolved okay one you're good okay okay one down one one down all right so next it says Miss Pinson is requesting that that the West End of the fence be extended to improve screening between the properties there is some question as to whether fellowship and Mrs Pinson informally or formally agreed the fence would continue further to the West than where it currently ends the retaining pond side of the fence Mrs Pinson believes they did it is the opinion of the Landscaping committee that an additional 16 ft of fencing be added to the west and of the funds so just for clarification the fence line on and we probably should go back to the fence was approved in a particular location as part of this 2016 application in a subsequent application it was indicated it should be extended at another approximately 50 ft it do we know which subsequent application I think that was the bird walk and the um Fitness it was the fitness center so it I recall that specifically that you guys had it off and it was actually Incorporated you had a conversation with her to extend the fence and it that was adopted uh June 8th 2021 and there's a condition in that approval specifically concerning that fence what condition number is that hold on I'm turning I will find it I apologize I thought I had it flaggs but it indicates that there here it is that is on page 21 and it's [Music] D1 can you just read D2 D2 the record in addition to provide greater screening the existing wood fence along the property line of block 9401 Lot 8 shall be extended approximately 50 ft to the agreed upon pine tree which served as an agreed upon marker between the applicant and Mrs Pinson has the fence been extended 50 and I will have Mr Black answer that specifically because he was in charge of overseeing the construction okay and Mr black is also a lay witness he's not an exp that is correct he's here because he works for fellowship and overse actually I'll ask you do you work at the fellowship Village site yes I do and in your role there do you oversee the construction of certain aspects of the property yes and did you oversee the construction of the fence along Mrs pinson's property yes did you add to the existing fence uh after the resolution was adopted in 21 yes and how much fencing was added um approximately 40t okay so approximately 40t so as part of this clarification will you agree to add another 16 feet in addition to what exists today that would bring from 40 to 56 6 feet more than the 50 required yes Ah that's beautiful now we resolve number two oh wait wait wait so what Mrs Pinson speak to us I was also out there today but that's come on up oh God okay we can we do I want to go through the whole thing at this on this issue item two no no but this is my biggest issue and I have all sorts of pictures and etc etc but the basic problem is um that the pine tree you didn't talk about the pine tree and the pine tree was one of the survivors and I have lots of pictures of the pine tree if you want to if you want to have pictures and of of the pine tree we got them right but um so the okay item two yeah is the fence is the fence right to the agreed upon pine tree of 50 ft plus I think okay can you just do me a favor read that condition E2 again I want to see how it ties into the Pine Tree in addition to provide greater screening the exist existing wood fence along the property line of block 9401 Lot 8 shall be extended approximately 50 ft to the agreed upon pine tree which served as an agreed upon marker between applicant and Mrs Pinson now you're saying that pine tree is not there it is there that's what I'm saying she saying they didn't extend the fence to the they didn't extend the other words there's a discrepancy in the sense you believe that to to go it's more than 50 ft to reach the pine tree it's 48 ft I wanted to correct the letter I sent out because I went out I wrote my letter April 7 when I was out in California but I corrected it I went out and measured I staked my you know my cloth tape at the end of the fence and I went out to the pine tree and you're saying 48 feet so instead of 16 additional feet you're asking for 48 Well it's worse than that because I thought we had flexibility here too because um if you could how do I do this David can you help do in other words if we go up to the um again this background wise we have these conditions okay so the landscape committee supposed to live within the conditions and the board is hearing this appeal and the board under the municipal land law committee's got to act reasonably board's got to reasonably and the they're operating under condition so we have this second condition that says extended to the pine tree and apparently we said the board said it was approximately 50 feet so we're not going to get hung up on the 50 feet if it's supposed to be to the pine tree that's the intent of the condition how do I well us the intent of the condition was we were extending it approximately 50 feet that's what we thought the pine pine read the condition one more time please read the condition okay Pond consult with the applicant's neighbor Mrs Pinson applicant has agreed to I'm sorry in addition to in addition to provide greater screening the existing wood fence along the property line of block 9401 Lot 8 shall be extended approximately 50 ft to the agreed upon pine tree so to us we extended it approximately 50 feet to the okay the other stop stop stop to them they extended approximately 50 ft to the board I'm hearing they think the fence should be extended to the Pine Tree now what's your position okay well it's there's some there's some discrepancies here in the sense that I don't think I went out I've been out a couple of days here and I counted one at first I counted the sections and I multiplied by eight and I got 480 ft fence and that was what's on the plan but then I realized there's the six there's a it's they're budding in the fence is budding in listen please listen listen so there's more built I understand what do you want what is it what do you want you want the fence to the Pine Tree you want the fence to the Pine yes okay that's what we're saying can you can Mrs Pinson identify on a plan where the pine tree is oh yes I got pictures Galore of the pine tree if you want so you're not clear as to what pine tree I I think our no our we extended it approximately 50 feet to what we thought was the pine tree so so that's the big problem no there is pictur I have a picture of it get your picture get picture okay we please your letter has the picture right yes okay just but also the stuff I sent you today has pictures Galore yeah but what do you want your letter sure to start with her letter so this this letter was actually Mrs pinson's letter to the board dated April 7th was submitted by the applicant with with their submission so here's your go down way letter show me what um down below well the pictures right if they come out oh they're not going to come Mr slide you're not going to see okay give me my pictures I sent you today so C can I ask you a question I was out there today also and I measured how far it from the end of the fence to a tree the pine tree right it was a big tree I didn't look to see if it was a pine tree and I wish I did well well there's only one pine tree there's a big tree maybe what is that 14inch diameter it's got a um a no trespassing yellow no trespassing those my property that's not their I know but is that the pine tree there was only one tree that I saw posted it's not po we're not on my property we're on their property so you're right along this was a tree that was was a part of the earlier yeah I have a picture of it if it helps get me some pictures please which one do you want located on their property well they're in the emails that you sent the fence is the Pine Tree in question you would like it extended to is it located on your property or their property their property okay I have one other question hold up for one second daance yes by any chance that's the yellow tree you saw with the yellow tag on it where's the Pine Tree in that picture the pinee is out2 is pict picture of a pine tree take a look and see what she sent you today see if there anything would give the board idea where this pine tree is in relation to the end of the fence right now how about the file that says the pine tree yeah now which these are all new the board doesn't have these are these do we need to mark them as exhibits or are we we'll end up marking exhibits but well I'm just going to suggest if she submitted there's five different files if we're going to mark them exhibit she would just I have them numbered you what exhibits one through five P1 through P5 for penson pension two pension three pension four pension five these are P1 through P5 let's look at one this is P1 okay I'll justum you took the picture what is what is P1 what does it show it shows your tape measure that's the pine tree there in the distance like jetting out it's very loose treat oh that's my measuring my tape I I hooked it on I I hooked it onto the pine tree and then I went back to the first uh tree that was planted none of these trees were planted as to the plan as far as location that's one basic thing so this is 75 ft from the pine tree where I put it on a little broken Branch so P1 first of all you take all these pictures today or when uh those were today yeah this morning so P1 is a picture is that the pine tree all the way at the end where this that's where I hooked my tape where's the end of the fence in relation to the pine tree oh right there the pine tree well like I say it's THS at the end of the fence good good going who's doing that yeah okay okay uh that's and that is 48 feet from yesterday I staked that with a piece of rebar and went out to the Pine Tree 48 you're saying there's 48 the end of the fence to that pine tree and right that's 48 ft cuz that end of the fence looks like it's right there right but based off of the fence to the Pine Tree it looks like it is less the other thing i' ask you to observe about this picture is that there there there's no trees no plantings that are reflected in the spaces that were on the plan so that the additional tree you guys counted the trees I'm I'm looking for where are the trees I just want one more clarification your tape measure is not from the pine tree to the end of the fence in this photo your tape measure is from the pine tree to something else yeah I didn't take a picture it's to the that shrub whatever I maybe our expert kind of tree that is your testimony is though that there's 40 approximately 48t from the end of the fence to that pine tree is that correct yes all right Dave let's look at P2 there's more oh no that's only one picture there's more on1 no that was just one picture this is this is P2 this is P2 there's five photos in P2 there's the pine tree a nice picture of the pine tree right in the center it's a nice Tall Tree it's been growing since the prior project I couldn't have like planted it and moved it myself could I though oh that's a picture of the trees beyond the pine tree the maple trees and that's where I'd like to see um Landscaping to fill in listen listen we're on we're on item two it same with the fence okay so skip that one there's photo there's the fence next photo that's the other end of the fence just for the heck of it what's that okay that's a space I'd like filled so keep going okay we're going on to uh P3 what am I calling P2 various pictures of the pine tree from different views well it's it starts off with the pine tree and then it it's called p and buffer on there my buffer right that's the buffer that's where2 is going to be various pictures of the pin and buffer starting with the pine tree okay this is P3 P3 is the tall one the the P that one there's the pine tree again I think this is just a single picture of the pine pict that you show that you had I know I made a mistake sending it to Dave okay we're going listen we're going to scratch P3 we're taking out uh oh okay but it's a single picture of the pine tree P P4 what's P4 that's the pine tree and this is from these are old pictures as to what happened to the Pine Tree um in 21 during the construction phase wait a minute who whoa whoa this P4 was taken in 2021 yes during the parking facing head on into my property perched over my property with so that's the pine tree though in between the car this is a photo in 2021 of the pine tree it's obviously grown a lot since then I well that's not a full height I was more I was looking at the ground and how it had been compacted can I ask you this did that have anything to do with anything we're here on tonight well it just this is what I want to avoid by getting plantings there I don't want this probably during construction I know I know right okay so keep going can I ask you this you don't need P4 for what we're doing tonight do we no there's so there's P we don't we eliminating P3 eliminating P4 we have P1 Pinson photo of the pine tree into the fence we have P2 which are various photos of the Pinon buffer and we have a p P5 what uh P P5 is a map survey of Mrs pinson's property yeah and I think you already covered that with he covered that to begin on let me I believe you have that no that's not in anything you the board has that was just to get to open up and show you it's survey of the property all right you know what we'll leave that in that's a who prepared that survey and what date uh appar associat survey of pension property by apgar association February 22 2006 just to show the I didn't hear what he said you were talking February 22 2006 thank you sorry okay so for item two your request is that they extend the fence approximately 48 feet to that Big Pine Tree right to yes and if you want an explanation of why it's less what I think is the confusion over the 50 ft no we know what you want yes okay you guys want to respond the easy response would be okay we'll do it but let's hear let's hear your response I I think part of it is the cost right the additional 40t have already been put in and the request how do it cost for 48t of fence um in 2022 it was around $150 a foot $150 a foot a foot who you getting the fence for that was through our general contractor who did the property fence line for us during the construction phase what material is the Fence Cedar it's a 6 foot wood Batten um with uh 6x6 posts x amount feet deep in concrete um scheduled to withstand like I couldn't tell you how many pounds of wind pressure Cedar it is uh yeah Cedar it's probably pressure treated yeah it's um I I actually forgot it but I had the change order that we did when we extended the fence 40 ft do you guys ever go directly to a fence contractor instead of to a general contractor we well we do but I mean with the project going on and with this already the the property line already in the construction package this was a change order to extend it to 40 ft after we agreed to it with the fitness center so they were already there they were going to be putting in the property line fence um some ornamental fencing that we had um in relation to the Health Center so it it just made sense for them to do that while they're there ,200 that that's about that's and and that would be an addition to the 40t that we already extended it because my my I am not a 100% but that condition said you were supposed to extend it 50 ft understood I do not know if this is the exact pine tree that we agreed to because there was a pine tree that did fall and if we look at the landscape plan based on where the fence ends in relation to the building and the property if it's if it's um if it's 50 feet and this goes away I'll I'll do 50 more feet it'll be 100 feet of fence that we have put in so let let me just let me clarify we have a fear that when we come back for resolution compliance on each of these subsequent we going to continuously be asked for 50 more feet every time can I tell you something if this gets resolved and he says they're bringing it down to the Pine Tree there's going to be a resolution right but we have resolutions right you have a resolution and you have a condition that says extend the fence approximately 50 ft to the pine tree and the fence is not extended 50 ft and it's not extended to any pine tree okay if if you agree to put 48 or 50 feet more of fence down to that pine tree this will not be an open issue this will be done through finished you will never have to come back here for that can we eliminate the reference to the Pine Tree since there's some confusion about the pine tree and indicate you will extend it how many more feet 50 feet well but 48 is would be six panels right 48 ft I just want to make sure that that's going to reach the pine tree it seems to me that the applicant has always said what pine tree she specified I do recall the off the long discussion that you had on this at the prior for better for worse I was here correct and so it seems like she pretty much knows exactly what the pine tree is so I don't want a situation where you guys say we're going to do six panels and it doesn't get to the Pine Tree in question get her to the Pine Tree which is why I brought up the fact that I do not think this is the pine tree cuz if I look at the site plan there is a there there is a tree that f that's why I'm saying I will 48 ft I will extend it more I mean i i p m p come on back up P Ed make sure you okay well I he had a question for you Mr pitson I have a question for you thanks for being here it it sounds to me like in that resolution that had the condition of the 50 ft uh before before before I before I speak on that could you read that portion of that resolution again slowly again in addition to provide greater screening the existing wood fence along the property line of block 9401 Lot 8 shall be extended approximately 5050 ft to the agreed upon pine tree which served as an agreed upon marker between the applicant and Mrs Pinson okay so Mrs Pinson it sounds like the spirit of what you were looking for or your intent was to get to the Pine Tree I just said it doesn't sound like you actually measured it we just said approximately and threw that out there is that right I was standing is that right um right we did not get out the tape that day I was right he asked you can you repeat your question right so my question is it sounds like your intent of what you would to accomplish was to get the fence to the pine tree is that correct yes right following that up when it was trying to be determined how much fence was needed you were someone throughout an approximate 50 range right is that right okay stop for a second you're assuming that she said approximately 50 ft her or someone that's what I'm someone could have been someone on the board we don't know so is is it fair to say that you you already State you already stipulated that you didn't measure it at that time so is it fair to say that your judgment of 50 ft might have been off that you really wanted to get to the Pine Tree you're assuming she we've EST she wants Pine she wants to Pine Tre she did not give the approximate 50 ft someone it wasn't her all right gotta so I just want to follow up you want your fence to the Pine Tree yes and I want to could I add one thing about the the the size of the the fif the 40 48 feet might take more than in other words the the they're not 8ot sections they're eight listen please the board it sounds like they're so close to saying bring it to the pine tree and forget about how many feet so if you go back to the feet thing you're just well I I'd like to refute what Mr Black said go go to the Pine Tree do you want it to the Pine Tree yes yes yes please you have to show them what pine tree and you have to show I'll tie a ribbon around it and and it it was a spruce that that was a tree they're talking about and it died and it was thrown in my ditch right that's in my letter okay Spruce is gone you agree to take the fence down to the Pine Tree shown in that photograph which is exhibit excuse me see it seems that there's a question about which pine tree everyone is talking about well you seem to know and he seemed to have done what he thought was the right pine tree it was wasn't a pine tree he doesn't know his trees that was a spruce and it died long ago okay it died a long time before why can't the two of you get together and Mark that P they told you they think it's way too expensive well if we're going to okay they've already this is a failure of that to happen then the landscape committee we're at the last level of appeals here yeah okay you're talking very logical and rational all that's failed yeah but what what we just heard never mind from our I forgot your exact title VP of project management okay Mr Chris black Mr black he was very nice to say he would agree to go to the pine tree that you would like good so why are we going round and round we're good no that's fine and then is there any CH when do I talk about we'll go through the other on the same location we're going to go through the list there's a list we'll cross that Bridge we getv okay we will agree do you do you see on this photograph which is P1 there's a string going down to a tree you see the tree do do you know what tree that is Mr Black a good look because the way to resolve this is for you to say we'll bring the fence down to that tree my understanding is she's going to tie a ribbon around the tree is what we just try it a yellow ribbon around the Old Pine Tree what if you TI a ribbon around a tree a mile away just look at the photograph Mr photograph I will take this photograph with me and go find this tree yes find that tree Mr SCH and you send him a cop she's going to tie a ribbon around it or go with you to find that tree of item two is you're going to extend the fence down to that tree sh on P1 is that correct on P1 that acceptable Mr Black yes okay theys we have several more okay item number three this now turns to the East End of the fence so it indicates the East End of the fence was not installed per the drawing per the landscape plan Development Area B drawing L1 1B 1114 2019 the fence does not extend far enough to the east the crosswalk on the drawing is used as a reference point during the site inspection the fence appears to be approximately 10 ft to short on the East End Chris pla black did not agree the Landscaping committee requests a red line as built of the landscape plan Development Area B drawing l11 b114 2019 to show actual installation versus the plan drawing alternatively the applicant can extend the fence to the east as indicated on the drawing using the crosswalk as the drawing as a reference point few items to note here and I'm going to ask I I think this issue goes away if I can consult with the landscape committee and Mrs pin Miss Pinson do you want to take a quick break back not because the three of you are not a quorum and if you can consult and you guys can get this resolved wonderful well let's first ask Miss Pinson it's my understanding that you're not concerned with the East End of the fence come on up please okay I I talked to Mr Black a couple of days or he's and then he sent me a picture they acquired the other lot so now they got me totally on two sides but um so his suggestion was we could use pict that drawing showing the uh you talk to the mic sorry this exhibit we're going to item three just for the next applicant there are seven items paway through I know you're we were then going to read all the resolution from the 2016 I don't think that picture is in your letter so oh that's in his that's his that's their picture you have a picture of that I don't know if they're interested not yes so if you go to my letter and you go to exhibit that's what we were going to touch upon Exhibit C exhib just to sort of shortcut this in connection with the application for 55 Allen which was approved last year okay there was a proposal to turn the fence to go along the the yes it's Exhibit C to my letter that's correct so which one the air yeah that's it yeah someone so Mr SCH just explain this please as a neutral so where the um the red arrow and the yellow uh form a triangle that that that's the corner of the property that the staff housing is going to be built on right uh and the fence where the red is the fence is where of course before the staff housing was even a thing or before Fellowship owned the staff housing property that's where the fence would go but right beneath the the red arrow you can see the fence the heavy line extended there and uh I think that fence is there now correct that fence is there yeah well the the the position of the landscape committee is that it did not extend as far as it should have design drawing the landscape committee says 10 more feet going out that way but miss Pinson is saying what well I think Fellowship was suggesting they would move the fence from the red line to the yellow line since they now own that triangle M Pinson what is your preference 10t more on the red or move it to the yellow well I'd like the 10 ft more but I in deference to my neighbors I I feel like what I'd like to show you it which but I know we don't want to waste time is the um the site 55 Allen Road listen listen to me listen what's your preference oh you don't no because so would you accept the yellow life they turn no I don't want them to do that okay so you want 10 more feet going toward well sure I take 10 more feet but I was going to say just leave it because you don't want to hear my explanation go ahead tell us your explanation okay if you looked at the site which we could try to bring up a 55 it's all they have at the when they that was before you you people that they are going to not um improve or allow trespass not trespassing but allow people no hiking paths no so that's no man's land right so I don't see the point of turn of building a fence to Nowhere In no man's land when they come back which we can guarantee they will come back with some other plan for that property that the the north section of that lot the the South section I'd like to leave open I'm not committing myself on that Mr SCH has provided a lot of stuff in the approvals for me to deal with but what I'm saying is there's no need and if you did make that angle and even they wanted to add 25 ft I guess wasn't so expensive or something I don't but the point is that um I think it would invite people to come in what would invite people the angle of the fence would say oh come on hike up it's a little bit up in the air so they hike in now if they really want to define the property line like that so let me ask you this you have three options you can extend the fence along the red line 10t you can do nothing or you can go to the yellow line and add a section of f well I'd like them to have an opinion on that cuz I feel like well their opinion is do nothing okay I'm I'll go along with that okay number excent so the one thing I will say is that as part of the 55 Valen approval we were asked to turn the fence the corner so in lie of turning the fence around the corner can we say we are adding 48 ft to the other side of the fence that's a great idea see but now you need that's a different application no you're going to the Pine Tree Not Just 4 well I'm sorry to the Pine Tree I'm sorry to because we're adding to the Pine Tree on the other side I object to that this is a straight separ the other resolution actually says that that fence has to turn the corner it's shown in the plans I don't know what the resolution says the other resolution we had another similar was going to be a landscape committee and we were going to there was going to be some fencing and if it needed to be extended further we were going to do that so if she's saying do nothing is okay we'll just do nothing so one thing I m in the in the uh plants that or the conditions what you wrote up which I started to read and try to digest he he allows me 200 feet of fence on the but I would use it maybe around the parking which approv you talking about about 55 the staff hous the staff hous this is what I want to say that's not there's no notice that went out about that about that approval but all I'm saying is if they insist on talking about 55 we cannot be talking about changing conditions the only the tonight is the conditions on this 2018 you okay with them doing nothing leave it as is the reason but I don't want that 25 somehow me giving that up I'm still want I'm not giving that up at this point because the reason the landscape committee brought up this issue is because the drawing did not reflect or the actual conditions the as Bill conditions were not reflective of the drawing or vice versa you so in our opinion well i' like mean it be nice lovely to have the the the Gap closed up but it's okay because at some point we'll do nothing okay so let's move on do nothing okay going to number four okay with that just put fence at 45 but she doesn't want you don't want the fence at 45 she doesn't want the fence at to 45 but the 45 that's going to be a requirement of the next approval we'll deal with it the next approval I mean it is quarter a n yes we have a home this is supposed to be the easy number four several trees have been planted in the wrong place there are more trees planted than required however they were not planted where they need to be as per the landscape plan Development Area B drawing l1b dated January 14th 2009 there are some missing existing trees that were shown on the plan okay Miss Courtney if you could turn to exhibit D I believe it is to our letter and just explain okay okay okay so it looks as if we were they were supposed to plant these three trees here and let me let me just clarify these plans were not these trees were not shown on the 2016 approved plan is that correct correct they were added at some point after 2016 is that correct correct to the plan correct that's that's right um there was a revision in some other area of the project and we said that we would plant these three trees so who did you say that with a Township official or you guys said it yourselves yeah no so just so we're clear the parking lot changed and was an approved field change because of the location of the Transformer and at that time the plans were revised because the Transformer could not be relocated Feld change approved by the township engineer my understanding is a field change that was was approved yes Township engineer approved this field change yes yes okay and at that time three more trees were added to the plan to Shield the Transformer or the no no they were moved from there to here no they were not moved from there no they were just added just added to the plan put in or not so if you could identify specifically with the pointer which three trees we're talking about these three okay so were those ever planted in that location in that location no do we think that they were planted inside the red circle yes that is explain why was this field condition at the engineer approved I do not know the answer to that the answer to that I don't know that anyone but but I can but I can cut you off and just say I believe we will agree yeah so we will agree to to plant those three trees so just we'll make it easy okay is there anything else those Tre oh okay um is there anything else in that number four than no but I just want to run it by my tree expert here Mr Crane I'm not an expert just a citizen that's the I know train well what what is your opinion what's your opinion as a as a citizen what the question so the the the the highlighted green trees were added to the plan yet they were never planted and I believe you had an issue with some that some of the trees were not plant those three trees shown on the plan were put somewhere in that red circle area they say the township engineer approved it as a field change I guess it really doesn't matter why if they're willing to put the three back where they're shown on the plan he wants to know chair wants to know how does that sound to you the location is not where they reflective of the plan you're agreeing to put them back where the plant CHS no they're not so yes they are you're agreeing to plant three more trees where they're supposed to be I understand okay so the other green I'm getting ahead of myself and that I have a feeling Miss Pinson might want these trees somewhere else okay what about the other three other four green trees there are seven green trees not just three what about the other four from what I saw uh today that they are there so there are there are four of the seven that were planted appropriately correct that's what I observed as well so the three missing to PL the missing three trees and that resolves item four correct board yes do we know which three the one the one caveat I'd like to add is there are already extra trees out there we have an approval subsequent to this that requires us to plant replacement trees for 55 Allen we just want to make sure in the end that it's taken into account we've already planted some extra trees this isn't involve 55 55 you can't you can't do that unless you notice for 55 alley this is two separate things this is three trees Three Trees Three Trees fine it's fine we can't cross reference that resolves item four okay let's show show which three we have two green areas okay it's these three which to the left in the middle the one where the hand is yeah just so we can they're shown as the PA on the plan e or west side it's a Norway Spruce so Three Trees of about how many feet I'm sorry do we have a foot I mean how tall when they're planted I think there are seven on the uh planting schedule which would be 7 to8 feet three trees are on the west side or east side of uh there these three trees there's three in this green I would call that the West just okay is that the three yes correct yes the other Dave they both testified she and Dave testified those are already in okay correct correct count the total trees that are out there yes yes is more or less than there's uh more than what was said that would be planted um there were supposed to be nine and there's 17 Evergreens and then an extra two deciduous two exra how many extra um well well it would be eight eight extra Evergreens and two extra deu and the the Deciduous are a very uh good size they're all good sizes but the deu are very tall so they been trees added since our landscape review I I don't know what dat your landscape review was your landscape review that's review no what was the date it was it was it um I think March 23 hold on wait I have an email right here Janu January January 23 2023 site inspection D we count total trees out okay it was give or take one or two our Ober was there was more trees in the red in the green in the red area but the total trees were about the does this matter does this matter title if it doesn't okay uh Miss Pinson do you have any comments regarding item number four yes would you like to approach the uh microphone please thank you I just um I just want to say how disappointed I was in the way that planting was handled in other words they just massed them they threw whatever whatever they could into the one spot and I need the trees that are on the plan to be where they're on the plan that's what we're going to do yeah they agree I mean this is and also I took actually last year I went around and measured the distance between the fence and the trees and the trees and the trees they're liable to limb out they're liable the ones they jammed all in one space it was not a good idea and no one they never asked me what I thought I as I show from those earlier pictures of the the stretch going out um to the uh West I guess it is those trees are important to me because that's what's going to uh when the fence comes to an end past the pine tree like the P you'll notice the pine tree is in between the um the spruce and the and the red cedar but right at the end of the fence those pictures that that I sent in that in my letter that are look horrible the ones that are not in the right place and you're saying are too close my understanding is those are extra trees that they didn't have to plant but then they're saying they planted all these trees they're going by the numbers I want them in a certain location we're going to do that now so right but what I'm saying is my reasoning is that there's dumping the pictures I had people at the end where you where the fence ends is a logical place where people are going to throw stuff and also if I don't have trees along that thing a guy could back up the landscaper Miss P I was out there today and I saw where The Dumping was and we should address that at some point there they were they've been they were dumping behind the fence because why you address that at the very end at the very end we'll I'm saying is that I think the putting these trees where they belong that's why we're here we're trying to get all the trees installed for I also had one suggestion if some of those trees that are crammed in to the to that so-called zone or whatever it is they called it um if they die maybe they shouldn't be replaced so that the other trees let's not worry about that right now let's yeah okay the next item is uh number five yeah item five the large group of trees have several trees in the front row that are too short and don't meet the height requirement Miss Courtney can you identify those trees I think that were in the red area there we go so if you're looking at the this is the existing landscape for the site survey of November 2nd 2023 correct correct okay can you identify which trees are the ones that that might be alleged to be too short um some in the front would be smaller than um than than the seven or eight okay were those trees that were required to be planted in that area these were not required no those were additional trees that were added is that correct correct and how tall do you think those trees are how tall do I think they are based on your site observ a um I'd say about 6 ft okay how tall are the trees that were required to be planted um seven the evergreens are seven or eight and what was the requirement I'm sorry the require requirement was 7 to8 and how tall are they now um today with measuring they are coming in at 9 to 11: okay so to answer the question yes some of the trees are a little shorter but they were in addition to the required I understand so um I was also out there today and I looked at the height of the tree trees I'm 6 foot the smallest tree was 6 foot so I'll take your word that the rest of them are seven to eight John I would agree with that not being an expert but I okay Lauren do you have any input on the height of the trees were you saying five your no I'd like to miss pinsent you have any issues with the no but I realized the last issue we still may need more can't be talking from out there you got to come I'm just going back to the other issue that we just talked about about more trees in the right place and I'm really not sure um I was so concentrating on that I feel like I took a picture of my big pinoke yeah and and there were not trees there were a couple of trees needed next underneath the pinoke I took one picture of that so I'm not sure again whether it was just that the trees that were planted were got went too far to the wrong side or something I'm just not sure this I think we're we're dealing with plan H we're dealing with the site plan that we had in front of us and we have just required them in the prior number four to put the trees based on that exhibit in that place and we they agreed to do that so now the question before us was are these trees adequate and apparently they gave new trees that weren't required by the site plan so so we dig him up then we had an issue with the height apparently that doesn't bother me I just like I think we can say can I just understand what you said that that it wasn't just the Seven Trees that I referred to that are going to get planted it's all the trees along the whole stretch are going to get planted no as per the she was uh if I may mangelo was just focusing on the issue we're talking about the height of the trees right and you seem satisfied with that yes that's fine so we're going to close item number five move on to item number six it is okay as okay okay item number six some of the trees appear to be dead now that's I'll ask Miss Courtney uh since the time of the observation in February 2023 have trees been replaced out there I'm not aware of any trees being replaced but I'll ask that question Mr Black you looked at the trees today are there any trees that appear to be dead now uh no okay Mr Black can you verify that since February 2023 that trees have been replaced yes I also visited the site myself today and I did not see any dead trees great okay so item six is resolved yes yeah now item seven the last item item seven which we didn't tell the other next it is the last item but there's a bunch of sub parts yeah so before we I will read item seven and then I would like to go back to the resolution momentarily so item seven in general the goal of screening has not been achieved as viewed from Mrs pinson's house during both day and nighttime hours the installed screening is not sufficient in order to sufficiently screen there would need to be many more taller trees to screen consider Green Giant arbores deciduous trees including trees in excess of 30 ft so here I I do want to go back to the original resolution which indicated that the the planting plan that was approved met the conditional use criteria in the ordinance met the site plan could you just repeat for everyone from that condition what was the resolution so the resolution acknowledged and this is some of the trees were higher at planting I could ask Miss Courtney to repeat that but the resolution itself acknowledged here we go that there is no requirement that the landscape screening screening at the time of planting is required screen parking areas for the Second Story windows and it also said Landscaping which is planted for screening can take anywhere from 5 to 10 years to grow in so the resolution itself acknowledged that it was going to take time for these trees to grow in so miss Courtney you already indicated that some of the trees for example were planted at the required 7 ft and have now grown to 11 ft is that correct correct yes and just in general what is the anticipated rate of growth for like the Norway spruce trees for example uh about two to four feet a year so these trees are going to continue to grow correct correct all right there were no plans that required a 30 foot tree to be planted uh at 30 ft at the time of planting and for this one we had Fellowship has planted what was approved minus those three trees that we've now agreed to add it was not approved and not required at that time to be planting 30 foot trees yes Mrs Pinson come on up so we can hear from you on this item seven this is the height of the trees as viewed from your house during day and nighttime hours well we could show the picture of the nighttime view from my yard my barn and so forth oh it was part of for this one this is the last right there so as I've as I've said when we looked at the original plan with the buffer plan all those trees except for like four were dead from the first the prior application so that and that was without the fence or anything so I'm I'm skeptical about trees I know it's crazy maybe but you know there I don't know I don't want to plant something that's not going to be viable you know and and um but I'd also like to have my theory is put in a whole bunch of spruce or Cedar in spots where the where it's possible that they could block some of this really harsh lighting because they're reliable more or less so or whatever you guys think my understanding uh not to put words in your mou but you'd like to see more screening is that a fair State well I'd like to have I think it could be things could be filled in more and maybe tried to aim for the lights but it's going to take forever my best solution would be how about turning down the the volume on the lights or putting in like little shades on the lights something that would actually stop them because trees even if they get tall they Sway in the breeze unless you have a double screen of of trees or a triple screen of trees it really doesn't right quit the light so I think we understand what you'd like to see more screening or dim the lights something so I think Li I understand we need to find out a practical solution and then discuss it with the applicant what they're willing to do and maybe we have to take a vote I can't see a 30 foot tree would it might not make it right away I mean so something that's really G because like I say we've had a bad I've had lots of failure there understand thank you if I may I think we need a little clarification Mrs Pinson before you sit down I don't want to travel back I think we need a little clarification as to where this picture was taken on the property and what it's looking at so if you don't mind I'll pull the area yeah because I I lost it already Okay can you identify where on your property you were standing and which direction you were looking when you took that photo this photo no no in the prior photo we were just looking at this is an aerial if you could identify this little hand here if I can move it or you can move it where did you take the picture of the lights coming from Oh by um in my up my driveway in the in the yard were you standing next to the barn it looked like I thought I saw the barn in that picture I had the picture I showed has the barn is on the like the pine tree sort of there so if you look at the overhead can you identify where you were standing when you yep so use this if you can move that where yeah I'm not good okay let's say there's is that the house yes I'd say I was standing like there right next to the house kind of and what were you looking at like which building was it that you took the photo of the all of them the whole the whole shebang if you look at the picture I I tried to get in other words the the big building the the health center is in the picture that's not really a that that would be nice if those trees grow and screen it but the big bright lights which way was your camera pointed was it pointed toward the toward the Horizon there's a lot there so was it pointed to the right of the picture to the left of the picture straight on I'm trying to get my bearings well pretty much straight on I mean you I can that looks like parking lot straight on show the the show the picture again the picture of the lights promise there's no building to the left of that detention B okay so there's the p and there's your Gilead whatever you're neighboring the lights are bright when see the really bright is that the double lights maybe and then you know what also would work putting higher hold so hold on just just to go back just to go back so you're saying this is Gilead right here I don't know for sure what that's the one that's sort of like you can see the you can see the cedar trees you can see the pinoke you can see the Pines right you can see the building so if I make it's a sweeping pict I'd like to ask our experts to talk about the lighting plant specifically what was approved and when it was built because in this application that we're talking about for 2016 this was not new construction there were existing buildings there there were existing lights there and I'd like them to just talk about what was actually approved and constructed here's the issue I asked Mr Sly if he went out there at night he said no anyone on the Landscaping committee been out there at night I did yeah yes so to the two members of the landscape committee does that picture accurately reflect what you saw at night yes or no yes it did okay so there's a performance standard section of the ordinance which so this is not the lighting standards which I asked Mr SCH over there say the lighting complies with the ordinance right the performance standard is ordinance section 21- 35.2 and this is one of the performance standards for glare and so what the ordinance says is no use shall produce a strong dazzling light or a reflection of a strong dazzling light or glare Beyond its lot lines exterior lighting shall be shielded buffered and directed so that the glare direct light or reflection will not become a to joining properties adjoining dwelling units adjoining districts or streets yeah so the question is Mr Sly F the first the legal issue is going to be which we may have to look into this performance stand does it only apply at the time of approval or does it apply also after and let's assume for argument sake that it applied after but when you look at that I'm I'm looking at the one picture with a light that looks like it's shining at me at the right which looks like that is an example of glare some of the other quite frankly it's bright lights but it's not it's not glare but Mr Shai looking at the picture you think anything violates this perform again assuming I'm telling you to assume for argument sake that this ordinance applies to after construed well it's so subjective but I understand if um as if as long as the uh lighting was installed in accordance with the approval it was let's assume the lighting was but glare is glare but glare is glare in other words if it was if it complied with the lighting ordinance that's fine but you still have this performance standard that in my opinion performance standard continues well what I'm saying first is that it actually was constructed in accordance with the approval as far as the foot candle values and the uh shielding the type of fixture and all that I mean that's the fixture the type of fixtures is reviewed by the engineer in Department the engineering department doesn't go out and measure lighting levels the 0.9 maximum average foot candles maybe there it's more than that I I don't know if it's talking about certain lights being brighter than others and and causing glare then that may not be an issue the way I'm looking at this this is not an item seven issue item seven talks about the height of the trees this is an issue again would you put to the bottom of the list and maybe this is going to have to be looked into at some future date and maybe you're going to have to go out there with a light meter see if it does see if the stuff a does comply with the ordinance or not but my advice to the board is for item seven it doesn't talk about lights uh it it does that all the all all the subsections thereafter make suggestions that we should be changing out the lights Etc and I just want to be clear here the applicant came before the board the applicant put lights on the plans the plans were approved the applicant built the lights as approved I'm going to cut you off on this one I agree to this is outside the perview in my opinion of the landscape committee to tell them to start changing their lights right no I age but I believe but in my opinion the board should give direction to Mr Sly to go out there at night and measure to see if in fact the lighting you have complies with the approved plans and if it complies with the performance standards for glare and then this will but what what about the I think it goes back to the issue that the applicant's attorney brought up with the um the trees the height of the trees when they're planted and what the expectation is over time because what are there plantings there I I don't in other words I the lighting is one thing but the the the buffering the screening of the trees the proper height of the trees would screen the lighting so the lighting issue goes away and and I think we'll agree that it's not about the light it's more about screening the building in the day in the daytime as well John I'm looking at this picture at night not the daytime right at night to me the lights that constitute glare are the low lights that are below the branches so this again right I'm not looking at this as an item seven okay a growth issue talking about is not going to alleviate what you guys are seeing in the picture so let's stick to item seven other than lights other than discussion of Lights which I think we shouldn't be doing is there anything in item seven relating to Landscaping that the TR board wants to have the wants to tell the landscape committee no we're not doing that or is there anything in item seven that the board wants to tell the applicant yeah you better do this yeah item d there was a suggestion that we plant on our neighbors lot you jump to eight oh unless they're miss you read that green Giants could grow to Green Giants could grow to 15 ft are best in the parking lot area space about 7 feet apart along the fence line larger trees by the detention area are needed to block the bigger buildings by the detention Basin investigate if additional trees could be planted on the neighbor's property seeing that there's limited space on the fellowship side of the fence and we will not agree to plant on the neighbor's property nor do I think Miss Pinson right I think that goes that item as far as planning on the neighbor's property goes away right Miss Pinson is that yeah you don't want okay okay so that let's do it this way 7A light fixtures we Crossing it out that's beyond the scope 7B lights in the open parking lot area on the scope Crossing that out 7 C shoe box down lights would have been a better option Crossing that out 7 D both agreed that it's not both agreed we're crossing that out so s wait wait wait no no no you're Crossing out the last sentence that said investigate if additional trees can be planted on the neighbor's property okay what's the first sentence it's about planting green Giants yeah J 7D I think is my mind the critical so take the last sentence out and now read without the last sentence read 7 Day Green Giants could grow to 15 ft are best in the parking lot area space about 7 ft apart along the fence line larger trees by the detention Basin are needed to block the bigger building by the detention basement so my question is what did the approved landscap plan sh in this area I think I have a question of what is this area that's being referred to in the letter it's unclear to me what area you talking about in the letter the whole fence line the whole fence line along her open field the goal yeah the goal of screening has not been achieved so it's it's what did the landscape plan show and and let's go back listen let's go back to the very beginning let's you one more time the condition at issue here which is condition 17 on page 53 of the resolution right so condition 17 well let me back up condition 15 was the condition that required us to update the plans to reflect the January 15 2016 landscape plan and then condition 17 said after installation of Trees and Landscaping as reflected on the buffer plan and in accordance with the planning Bo board rules and regulations the Landscaping Committee of the planning board shall inspect the site and determine whether any additional Trees and Landscaping shall be required to be installed along the Pinson property line and Miss Pinson shall be provided with notice prior to the committee making its site visit so that she can be present for the site visit and offer input to the committee the first sentence of in my opinion if they wanted more Landscaping under that condition 17 the landscape committee can require so what exactly is the landscape committee saying you're saying green Giants could grow to 15 fet they're best in the parking lot area Space 7 ft apart along the fence line larger trees by the detention bases are needed to block the bigger building by the detention Bas so exactly what's the landscape committee looking for them to do so they can understand what it is they're being asked to do one of you all John Crane speak to that there's gaps out there in my view when you go through there's gaps looking at the joining property and that was our intent on this item to block those gaps by adding additional green Giants it would help block the gaps and I think it would also help the low lights going through it so that's what I think a a true buffer when you look through the that area you shouldn't be looking at Fields you can see quite a bit through there so I think additional 15 my mind I counted the panels where there wasn't any trees and they're 8 feet so you put one one green giant in where those empty panels are on the site I think this this would uh help uh help the situation there say at least before I have my client respond I just want to be clear where it is you're proposing I I would propose wherever there's a gap between the trees I think we need we we need more Direction than that I apologize but L's property with the open field not with the trees that's what you're talking about so is it this area here okay what Mr SCH could you please get an exhibit up there to show what the landscape committee is talking about well that's a good exhibit that we're on just why this one in my opinion 7D the landscape committee had the authority to require this and this is the last item for the board to take a call on unless there can be some kind of mutual resolution is there is there a a a drawing that shows the Mrs pinson's house and the field behind her house overhead or is it only this is this is the aiel but this drawing just for for the record and for everyone's information this drawing drawing doesn't show the building right is this preconstruction the left of the det it's all there it's all there can you blow this up can you zoom upe maybe oh I see the roof okay keep on going keep on going and there we go so that's the roof line Y goes to the left so blow it up a little bit more to show what's out there okay and da know the date this picture was taken this is January 2022 Can you estimate how many green Giants these this landscape committee is talking about hearing what they had what Mr Crane just had to say can you put a ballpark and then I'm also going to ask the landscape designer our fact witness to talk to the architect and then tell us a ballpark of how many green Giants you think it would take to satisfy what the landscape Committee just described well there's this section right the fence starts this is the East End of the fence from this location to where these planting start if I can interrupt I think that's a critical area because the the cars are coming out of a Barking Lot for glare but sorry isn't that where the fence is located I think that's what you're talking about right here so you're saying that the fence doesn't block the car headlights it's a it's a six foot fence wh which crosswalk is that is that the one on the east end of the fence yes that was the area Mrs Pinson said was not the issue we going to have a glare going over the fence it's light it's adding more light to that area it's not completely black about the fence one of you guys can you tell us how high is Def fence what's the elevation at M pinson's Property what's the elevation at the parking lot the so it's a 6 foot tall fence on approximately a 3 foot difference from the street to to the top of the slope then you have a six foot fence on top of that and what elevation would the parking lot would the cars be in other words if the elevation of the parking lot is above the fence then then he's right the lights are going right over the fence if the elevation of the parking lot is the same as the bottom of the and the fence will be blocking the headl the the elevation of the parking lot is this um the fence the slope coming down you have the street and then you have the the parking lot there so the parking lot the parking lot is lower than the fence yes give this to David David can you get this picture up on the uh on the screen on we're going to show a Mr SCH is going to show a picture that was do me favor describe that picture please and and where you were standing when it was taken so what I have here so I I prepare the can you stand up in front microphone watch this I'm going to be your I'm be your there you go so turn around in in in the report in the report that we sent the landscape committee report that was sent to David SCH who then forwarded it to the applicant there were several there were three or four pictures this picture was taken in the daytime obviously um it this is Mrs Miss Pinson and this is the barn on the left who's the guy over there that's John Crane it's the non-expert yeah this picture is almost Iden taken from the almost identical location that um Miss pinson's nighttime picture was taken okay this picture shows the lack of screening uh of the building and this is why we are requesting taller trees yeah basically and just so in my opinion what may need to happen is if we decide we're going to get more trees maybe there needs to be a site survey done by the landscape architect and or someone from the board 7D is requesting green Giants are you changing that now or I'm we're keeping the green Giants we're keeping the green Giants so the request is green Giants and all I'm trying to do is trying to quantify by having someone give an estimate of how many green Giants it would take to accomplish what the landscape is looking for and before we can do that I want to be clear which building is in that picture is it this one I'm circling over here uh you have to zoom in I no I believe it's The One To the Left Behind the retention base that's my opinion but maybe Chris can aine on that and give us that's the health center which is this one okay yeah yeah so you could see the corner of the building there and what and to be clear it's the health center at the end the very end of the health center to it's it's showing the the whole side of that Health Center so all of where this pointer is here you can zoom in it's really hard to from that picture mhm can you zoom in is it that far to the left it is that can you get us a blow up a little bit more is this what you're looking for that's good see where that car is to Let's scroll down that white car to the right right there that's basically that open view that you're getting there right center is actually where that blue circle was on that picture you go back up that so that that corner of the Heth Center building all the way to the east to the right so here yeah that that portion of the okay those are the windows you see in the evening picture as well you know okay so you're suggesting this area right here where that car is that's where you want to see more plantings is that is that correct let me make it simple there sure go out there know this isn't perfectly down you go out there there's 8ot wide fences and there's not a tree between the one post and the other that's where you put the tree and there's approximately 15 fences that don't have a tree that would help block this area Okay the open areas when you go out there you see open areas you see the field but when you go M spinson at night it's it's a three story massive building which isn't right but forget night just doe day night with the lights is right and and and the day you still see it okay so so this this area right here by the detention Basin that's the area that is that correct you have the wrong area okay all more people in this room the goal is to screen the property yeah we so let's get that done we completely understand I think why this has been going on for years is because the direction is add more trees but we want to be clear exactly where because because we add more trees get permission from Miss Pinson to get to have the AR landscape architect go on her property and stand where we stood when we took the picture you'll be able to determine exactly where to put the trees here's my suggestion right it's now 9:30 okay we've worked all the way through down to 7 little hang up on 7D and we have to do this lighting thing for E so I say we continue this thing you guys go out and get anyone on the landscape committee who wants to go out with them with their landscape architect with Miss Pinson and then come back try to come back with an agreed upon plan if it can't be agreed upon have the landscape committee with Mr SCH come back with the plan you guys think should be imposed then we'll pick it up from there and in the interim can you also Dave U make arrangements to check all their lighting and see if it complies with the um the what's ever shown on the plans what well how the engineering department would handle that since we don't have any kind of way to measure ourselves ask the applicant right you're going to hire a consultant charge the es account you're going to get someone to come in light meter check everything check the shielding check they got the proper wattage in the check you know up and down we would give the applicant the option to do it have their experts do it you guys can do it and they can they can witness just just so we are very clear this is an applicant that came before you got their plans approved built what was on the plans but not really because you didn't you didn't do the fence and you didn't do the fence you didn't have the trees in the place so that's kind of an issue not aect EX I appreciate the frustration I appreciate the frustration we're close let my my recomendation is that the if it matters is the landscape committee M the architect Miss Pinson we all get together for one final sh bang and get this screening done can we do that yes I just ask everyone to be costc conscious right through all of this we are being asked to do a light study we're being asked to plant new trees we're being asked to add thousands of dollars of new fence at some point there has to be a consideration that this is a nonprofit Senior Center you're not being asked to to do thousands of dollars of fence because it was agreed upon to a pine tree so in my mind you weren't asked to do that so so when will when can we schedule this because for us we've been carrying this bond for years at a cost of thousands of dollars a year let's get a quick schedule yeah I'm I'm retired a he's retired okay retired us get your people together and tell us when you want to go Mr SCH Mr I got and I'll be there in the morning it doesn't matter figure out how about this Friday actually Friday work okay this Friday can you guys make this Friday landscape designer okay can you make Friday yep were there was like the board and their representatives can make it this Friday if you want to be there this Friday all right can all done can are can we have our experts there are are you available on Friday or is there another day you'll be there what time time between s and 3 anytime between 7 and 3: what time do you prefer how about Miss manduk okay what time in the morning do you prefer 9:30 9:30 9:30 on Friday 9:30 cannot do 9:30 okay cannot we can I can do 6:30 on Friday S8 N I can't do 930 okay how about nine no I cannot do that I can do late morning early afternoon okay what's the earliest in the morning you could do four no okay what's the earliest after 8: a.m. you could do 11 11 11:00 a.m. on Friday Miss Pinson are you available oh yes that's where are you all meeting how about where we met last time in the park Miss what about Miss pinson's driver Miss Pinson can they all drive over to your house can they all drive over to your house and meet there at 11:00 a.m. well if they want it's bumpy yeah and you got to watch turning in that's not a good no okay you're meeting in the in the driveway on the fellowship property right out we meet right by the Bas the detention Bas by the detention B detention Basin that's okay but but you want you want this view right you want to walk to miss pinson's backyard to the barn is that correct you might need someone on both sides of the fence somebody I'm not sure walk across the whole field that's why I said meet at your house and they we can walk around the somebody take the lead on this because I might not be Mr the lead we can walk around the fence where it's missing on the east side to go can we continue this now without need for further notice when's the next if you guys are meeting on Friday when is the next planning board meeting after Friday uh May 7 now May 7 do you want me here or a substitute because May 7 that's that's going to be a problem I got this massive what's the meeting after May 7th that would be May 21st because you need a plan to be put together also May which 21 May 21 available so the hearing in this matter is going to be continued to May 21 just so you know items one through six are all resolved only thing we're coming back on is item 7D and the separate issue which is 7 e so Dave if you could try to get a consultant out there sooner than later because it would be really good if on May 21 we could resolve both 7D and see if there's any problems with the lighting meaning if the lighting doesn't comply with the approved plans maybe they switched something out things happen they did maintenance on them that's sort of stuff happens maybe that one light that looks like a flood light coming out is a unauthorized light we'll find out to be to to be clear the board's professionals will report back to us before the 21st if they identify that there's an issue with the lighting yeah well okay you have the option of you get a lighting he's suggesting that you get your Li and Dave Witnesses rather than the township get a lighting guy but if you get the lighting guy we need Mr SCH out there witnessing mhm so you're asking us to perform a lighting study before then well it's up to you if you want otherwise I'm going to ask Mr SCH charge restro account he'll get somebody is it possible that the screening of the trees also takes care of the lighting John what's your position on I don't think so you saw the pictures the stuff's coming in low oh that would be a question is what what are you trying to screen are you trying to building are you trying to screen light we let's separate the issues this is a landscape committee thing 7D is Landscaping 7e is not 7e said ask the township engineer if the light standards or approved plans were exceeded right so how we doing this is Mr SCH going to arrange to get a lighting consultant in to check everything and charge the ref account or you getting someone in to go around and check and he Witnesses what's your PR through our engineering we will figure out Li so then the township will okay so you got get the lady consulted R do you have any input on that you know any lighting part this conversation all right well do you know any lighting Consultants well I think just light us all right let's handle move on okay so we'll be returning May 21st see you all on May 21 you know the resolu of be resolu all understood no I don't want a resolution this evening we will carry it till the 21st thank you thank you all right what's the what's that rule no new cases okay so here's my suggestion I think before you take a break let them set up I think you should call the case because a whole bunch of people are accusing right and then the rest of of people go home okay sorry guys okay next item on the agenda is public hearing for Bank of America National Association block 1802 lock 25 address 125 South Finley Avenue for preliminary and final site plan uh applicant number pb24 d001 why don't you guys come up to the table now my thank you Miss Pinson there's a bunch of board members that are going to be recusing so everyone who's going to re recusing have a very nice evening well let's see what we're left put on the who's recusing yeah why don't we after you're leaving put your uh for the record announce who you are Kathleen recusing Nick kuza refus recusing John Crane recusing who else Danielo recusing recusing John linski recus recusing anyone else down there recusing Daniel Leorio recusing who's left standing raise your hand if you're if you're you're still you're a board member on this application raise your hand one two three four Lauren are you oh and Lauren and Lauren five got five now you need time to get set up or you set up pretty much set up so take a yeah or I could keep going does anybody want to take a recess bio break any pushing through looks like okay so we'll continue good night thank you okay so yeah the executive session is going to have to wait you got to go to this public you're probably not going to do the executive session tonight it's probably going to be at another I understand that's yeah thank you all for your patience but yes just give us a minutes to get sure take your time could you enter your appearance for the record be happy to Mr drill Tom lazia attorney the law firm of trouton Pepper Hamilton Sanders representing Bank of America National Association you spell your last name yes l e t i z i a let's figure out you have looks like you have one witness that's it what's your name please R Patrick spell p t r i c k and looks like the board has two witnesses so can our Witnesses stand up and raise their right hands please does everyone square or affirm the testimony you're going to give in this matter truth whole truth nothing but the truth for the record your name and your area of expertise and relationship to the applicant or the board as the case may be uh my name is petrick I'm a licensed professional engineer uh in state of New Jersey um you're the applicants engineering expert yes yes sir price price good engineer board engineer David schide Township planner board planner okay okay so I forgotten why I'm here I feel so invested in the prior application but I can assure you there's no pine trees no lighting no fence there's lighting there is lighting that's true okay Li there is lighting I forgot about that that's right so uh quickly uh you know notice of this hearing was provided in accordance with the municipal annus law and the affidavit to that effect was filed and so I believe the board does have jurisdiction I just ask Mr drill for confirmation the form is satisfactory secretary certified yes were they all in order yes they were so my advice to the board is the board does have proced thank you so the uh the subject Bank of America branch that's a sub that is part of this application is located on property identified as block 1802 Lot 25 on the Township tax map the property is located in the B1 Village business uh zoning District the property address is 125 South Finley Avenue uh you may be aware of the uh prior use of this uh property it was originally a residence and it was purchased by Queen City Savings and Loan back in 1972 and uh Queen City was then purchased by First Atlantic uh which was an applicant for a site plan application back in 1988 for an expansion of the bank and obviously uh Bank of America is now the owner of the property there was a a question raised uh by Mr uh Sly regarding subject matter jurisdiction of this application and that that is because uh when the bank was originally approved the B1 Zone did allow a bank use use apparently though we we could not really confirm this uh the current version of the B1 ordinance no longer allows for banks so under the law the bank use would be considered a pre-existing non-conforming uh use uh in our testimony we will show in our opinion that the proposed improvements outlined in this application which include the conversion of an existing drive-thru a banking Lane uh to a drive-through ATM Lane and the upgrading of sight lighting is not an expansion or intensification of the non-conforming bank use and thus jurisdiction does rest with the planning board and in fact you will hear that the number of drive-thru Lanes at the bank is actually being reduced from two to one so it's actually reduction significant is if it because it's a lawfully created pre-existing non-conforming use entitled to continue under the ml if they needed any type of D variance this would go to the board of adjustment correct if it doesn't need a d variance it stays at the planning board because they need site plan approval and if they need any c variances or exceptions the planning board has ancillary jurisdiction over that so as long as they're not expanding so they don't need a D2 expansion of pre-existing nonconforming use variants Perce procedural jurisdiction is with the planning board okay I have a question regarding expansion does that include lighting no okay my opinion expansion would be if for example if they added another uh like a building structure structure they had added an addition they added another drive-thru here I believe they're eliminating a drive-thru Lane okay they're as long as the lighting because the lighting it may intensify correct but but that's to that's not an intensification of use now the question is is there an ATM at the bank now there is right inside yeah inside but is that ATM does that do people have access 247 to that ATM I don't believe so oh they are okay then they do if I was hoping that my understanding was they have access 247 now they're going to have access 247 if there was if they didn't have 247 access now and they were proposing to have it that would be an intensification but because the access durational is is the same also in my opinion it's not an expansion they don't need a D2 variance they're properly here in my opinion the board also has subject matter jurisdiction now I give advice as a chair you have to make a ruling on that if they disagree with you by motion they can reverse you you agree I agree that's the ruling of the board I'm asking you that the ruling of the board I have to ask the board make the ruling is that your ruling that's my ruling does the board want to reverse him no no no there you go thank you so we are seeking plary final site plan approval for the new ATM uh drive-through Lane as well as the new uh lighting and that lighting is located in the Drive-Thru canopy and on uh two uh three I believe uh new uh polls the lighting is necessary in order to bring the site into uh compliance with state law specifically the electronic transf uh electronic fund transfer Privacy Act which is set forth at njsa 1716 K-1 at SEC which establishes minimum lighting standards around ATMs for the uh Safety and Security of users that was attached to the back of I believe Mr petrick's uh resp response engineering review that is correct and I'll uh summarize uh what those lighting standards are uh one a minimum of 10 foot candles at the face of the ATM and extending 5T outward in an unobstructed Direction uh two a minimum of two foot candles within 50 ft of in all directions s from the face of the ATM and then third a minimum of two foot candles in any portion of a parking area uh within 60 ft of an ATM and it's also uh important to note that under this law uh it states that it supersedes and preempts local ordinances related to lighting can I ask a question sure do you know well maybe it's too early to ask this question do are we are you are we are you meeting that requirement now other words the lighting that's there now so the light well there's the single ATM right now so there's that back of the building inside right right but the parking lot and just for the record I did visit the site at night did anyone else visit the site and the ATM you use the ATM not for a Bank of America oh no problem I got charged okay now it's no problem as long as they don't offer to refund you have aank account all I I did neglect to ask I usually ask the board if on a new application if they visited the site so we'll just go go along the board D and ask and if yes okay do you have any OB observations anything obvious questions comments did you go I mean I went I went during the day daytime okay um so I didn't you know lighting that necessarily okay Lauren with respect to lighting at night is a dark area in general right but did you go at night yeah yeah okay and was it nice and bright inside the to be honest okay are is okay your opinion I've been there plenty not recently okay at night day night okay M yes I've been to the location several times um I would say during night time it's probably one of the more lit uh buildings on South Finley yes I agree so I also visited the site on two occasions within the past week at night and we'll get to my observations but it's well lit lighting that we're going to be talking about tonight is just around the new ATM we're not talking about lighting across new lighting across the entire site we're focusing on this new ATM which as I indicated requires us to upgrade the lighting in order to make that area safe right so that goes back to my question um and again maybe I'm getting ahead of myself sure uh going on right keep going yeah you're doing fine you're the chair I would believe me you can ask Kippy if I didn't think so I'd say something yeah so and again I'm getting I getting ahead of myself a little bit the the drawings with the um the light intensity yes those are for proposed lighting right if it's existing and proposed oh it's existing and proposed yes okay you know I'm going to save my questions for okay uh the engineer later so very good but I did I did want to add a couple things so regarding the you you you say we're talking about the okay back to my question I'm sorry I'm all over the place a little bit you're talking about this New Jersey statute right correct okay so my question is does the current do we know do you know and based on the fact that you said that your lighting plans are existing and proposed I assume you will be able to tell us whether or not you we are you are meeting that standard now with the existing lighting that's my question um have to ask my engineer that question I don't know off hand okay the answer question uh there is one design exception we are seeking and that is from section 21 d 4.1.3 of the ordinance which requires an average lighting for non-residential vehicular areas and for non-residential sidewalk areas uh to not exceed 0 .9 foot candles so that's the waiver that uh that's the exception or exception correct now in our testimony we we intend to address the comments from your professionals overall I can indicate we generally agree with the recommendations however there are a small number that require some clarification and a further discussion hopefully not for to hours that we just went through so unless you have questions for me and you already had some but I'm happy to answer some preliminary questions but I'll ask uh Mr uh petrick to come forward to present the uh application actually I have I just want to bring up one sure item you mentioned that the scope of this discussion was with regards to the new lighting correct okay so my question may be better directed towards Mr schy regarding ex and Mr drill I I have an issue with some of the existing lighting good let him get into it ask the questions and then we'll K it as it comes up let's get him qualified so Mr petrick can you briefly uh review with the board your educational and professional background please uh I graduated from Georgia Institute of Technology with a Bachelor of Science uh in 2009 I became a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey in 2015 I've completed multiple ATM and next year letting projects within the state and for the bank and present them before various planning boards in New Jersey and I currently reside in New Jersey I offer Mr Petra is an expert in engineering does any board member have questions for Theif or on the qualifications of the uh proposed professional good standing and nothing uh yes ma'am good standing and licensed accept him as a professional engineering expert we the board accepts you as a professional engineering expert thank you if no one makes a motion to reverse you then you don't have to worry about it okay I'm not worried okay um so for this application the bank is looking to make uh investments in the property um and um throughout the country they're making Investments on select locations and they make investments uh in various ways whether it be through exterior improvements new ATMs uh new Interiors uh and at this location they've selected to install a new uh ATM um the new ATM we're proposing uh is going to be in the existing drive-through Island and as part of the installation it's going to include um uh new light fixtures ballards and various other improvements um and the uh these are the three main areas of the application which I'll be focusing on tonight um which are the ATM the lighting and the miscellaneous improvements uh to speak briefly about the uh non-conforming use um in my opinion the application does not meet the criteria for a D2 variance don't worry about that skip it skip it okay um so I could speak to the benefits of the application uh in terms of well put it this way the exception that you require that's if there's practical difficulty to meet the standard so why don't you just go through what the standard is what the state standard is and does the state standard have anything to do with ordinance section 21- 41.3 maximum average maintained horizontal Illumination in the non-residential vehicle area and the maximum average maintained Al Illumination in the non-residential sidewalk areas because if the state statute overrides these local ordinances that would be a basis for an exception if it doesn't override these particular ordinances um then you got to show some sort of uh hardship or impracticability so understood why don't you hit the what the state standard is requiring you requiring you to do yeah so there's really two two pieces to this it's the ATM and then once the ATM is approved then it's the lighting requirements that are tied to the ATM so you have the um so you're looking there's two sheets up on the board right and the board has them in the package so the two sheets look like it's c200 300 and C300 correct that's correct yes sir so which one you want to start on we can put them on the screen if you yeah put them up on the screen easier to see yeah let start you don't have to prove any benefit for an exception okay so um as a statute requires it requires a minimum of 10-ft candle at the face of the ATM uh and extending an an unstructed unobstructed distance uh outward 5T and then at that point it's twoot candle out 50 ft and so on um I'm going to go down to c301 and you'll see a circle there and that's the compliance area and that represents that uh twoot candle requirement Dave can you blow this up so we can I vaguely see the circle yeah okay so on the very top can can you clarify one thing for me yes sir uh when I asked if the drawings represent existing or proposed the reply was both yes sir so is that how can you explain how the drawing represents both uh we existing and proposed and is there is it one is on one drawing and one that's on the other or explain that to me because I'm a little confused so to clarify we have information on the existing fixtures okay the type the model number we have information on the new fixtures okay and so with the plan is a combination of both of those all right so let's back what I think the chair is asking is trying to distinguish between the two based off of uh c200 how can we tell the difference between the old fixtures and the new fixtures is one a circle one a square please explain no not the fixtures that on the map on on the plan no I understand both questions so if I may on the plans we don't show uh existing condition I conditions of existing light levels okay that's what I'm looking for on the plans we show the combination of what would be proposed once we install it both the uh existing fixture and the new fixture once inst installed what the proposed light levels will be the foot candle measurements are what I'm looking for yes so you're saying that's only proposed correct okay so we don't have existing conditions correct okay and that answers one of my questions is that so one of my questions was or is if we don't have existing conditions we how can we tell whether or not we meet the state statute now and the answer with that I assume is we don't know because we don't have existing conditions put it this way I sincerely doubt they meet this the stat the state standard now that's why they're that's one of the reasons they're here well how do they know if they don't have the data so we do excuse me uh sorry we do quarterly light surveys so we have professionals that go out every quarter to measure light levels get their guy um so as part of because the bank has many banks across the state and across the country and especially in New Jersey we're required to meet this requirement and so every quarter we go out and we measure and we do light surveys and so um we're aware of issues with sites this site is not one that has an abundance of of issues there are some sites where they don't have lights on and there's issues I understand um and those sites get triggered to be what's known as a next year lighting project and they'll come out redo all the lights right this site generally meets the requirements of uh the standard so for the proposed work in order to install the ATM we need to improve light levels because in the location where the ATM is it does not meet the current standard but how do we know that um there's no data there's no ATM there it doesn't apply the standard applies to ATM there isn't an ATM There Yet the the ATM they have is indoors I know so if they have no ATM where they're proposing it the light near how do you know that without data put it this way has and he saying he does I'm just you know I have to ask the questions I mean no if you say you have studies you've done studies why don't we have existing conditions because the point is the site is very very well lit as as Tyler mentioned you drive up Basking Ridge uh South Finley Avenue it's a sleepy little town between Wells Fargo and Bank of America it's a competition who could have the biggest brightest building okay that's the way I see it I'm looking out for the residents in the town so I drove through the site I have a couple issues we'll discuss those but I'm looking at it from those lights you're seeing the front or the back or the side or everything which lights are you asking me about I drove around the building three times the one you said when you're driving down south Finley okay well the whole the whole building all right so let okay let me get back up I'll get specific thank you okay there's a sign in front of the building that's a I guess it's on two posts the sign is perpendicular to the road I sorry y sh c200 so it's not okay so this is just some photos but it's it's on the face of the building it's like out it's a ground mounted sign so if I'm going to scroll down I have pictures of it at night if you the photos are on the on the computer as well okay the first one or here it's right in the picture the picture in your uh your packet that guy yeah that guy yeah okay so that that sign is lit from both sides okay and as you're driving down the road I have a picture of it at night it's it's glaring it's right in the um it shines right into the eyes of drivers going both directions on South Finley Avenue so that I have an issue with I'd like to maybe not right now but we need it needs to be addressed and Dave I don't know if you can chime in on this like with the glaring um we have this uh the performance standard it should be shielded right and it should be directed on the sign okay so this is not an internally lit sign these are flood lights from the bottom shining up yes and it shines right underneath the sign on both directions so one of the issues on my list and we'll get to all the other things yeah we can address that right I mean I think it's fair y okay no issue so I don't know if that has to get on the record with Mr drill how that'll be addressed well let me ask you Mr the lighting ordinance in the township does it does it allow any more uplet ex it allows shielded sign the same uh performance standard that we talked about earlier apply here those are I I know know from driving down the road those are pretty bright they could use some maybe it's just changing the angle of the of the light or reducing the bulb or putting some you know strategically placed shrubs or something yeah definitely we'll agree revise the lighting of the ground sign to comply with the ordinance how's that accept Okay I think overall overall the bank is looking to be good neighbors we have been in this community as a predecessor since let's put it this way as you can tell by how many people were used there were a lot of planning board members that used the B okay so back to the the point I was making well existing conditions so we don't have data on existing conditions or you have it but it's not part of the application so my testimony would be if I go back to the plan in terms of what's required there we need significant Lighting in order to to meet the requirement of the state statute okay um so the statute is 10 foot candles at the within 5 feet at the face of the ATM that's correct and you're proposing according to your your photometric plan 20 right so it's a combination of two things okay you have to have twoot candle 50 feet away right that I understand so really that is the limiting factor because you can get light closer to the ATM but it's it's really getting light far away from no I understand that but so you're you so what you're saying is you're using the light at the ATM to expand 50 feet away it's between the the area of 5T and 50 feet so it's that kind of area between those two that we're trying to light which is more difficult than adjacent to the building because you could put a light closer and get the light level you need I would also add that the shaded areas to Mr civil's civil civil's question as to what is existing and what's proposed fixtures the uh proposed fixtures are all shaded gray or dark uh whereas the existing fixtures uh to remain are not shaded not shaded in fixtures and so as you can see in the compliance area we're adding four new polls um so it's it's a good amount of fixtures that are needed in order to meet the the requirement um if it was one fixture then then you could kind of see that it would just be you know the site could be adequately lighted but here we're adding four and and we're so we need to add a good amount of Lights to meet the requirement I understand your position your your design approach we'll say that um Mr chair my yeah so so of the existing lights ultimately don't fall under this 50 foot scope is there an interest or a willingness to remove some of those that would not be required by state law in hopes that we can you know uh lower the amount of light coming off the site exactly so I think the challenging part of this application is that there's the existing ATM and the new ATM M and so if I scroll up um you would have to carry out 50 ft from the rear entrance which would take you into actually go up to the the full sight plan and so you're basically taking on c200 where's the existing ATM and where's the proposed ATM this is so the existing ATM is within the lobby here and then the proposed one is underneath a drive canopy right so where does a state statute which one does it apply to it doesn't apply to the one in the lobby that does it does irregardless of whether it's uh in a structure or out it's 50 ft from the entrance or 50 ft from the ATM right but ultimately we're going to remove the existing one keep both okay so there one of my other questions was was going to be are you removing the existing ATM no sir and the reason one's a walk upm in the back and one's a drive up on the side and the reason for that is because customers have a preference to one or the other whether they're for example disabled elderly they would choose to use a drive up ATM versus a walk up or if it's snowing and ice you know like for example uh you made a good example of how it's um a quiet town and you get snow and ice up here if you're driving into the parking lot and you walk across you know into the drive into the walk up ATM you you know there there could be potential for an issue so people may choose to use and prefer to use a drive up ATM versus a walk up in certain instances whether it's disabled elderly and and inclement weather or safety things like that okay I that's your that's your your your your opinion I guess well if it's pouring rain or something I mean doesn't that make if it's pouring rain why would you want to why would you want as opposed to pretty common for banks to have both my bank doesn't so I'm just saying that you know my bank does Bank of America does okay but they also have bright lights and you want to make them brighter so that that's how I look at it you know well again in one a certain portion in order to meet what so so the lights in the back of the bank where the the walk up ATM exists changing are not changing so you're going to add more lighting to the to the site to the side to the side right okay just trying to understand what he's asking is if you're adding light to the back and you're adding it to one side can you kill any in the front or the other side yeah so these are two full pictures here in the back or not just kill them maybe you can CH swap out the fixture and reduce the wattage so my what I'm trying to say is that this is within 50 ft of the rear entrance so there's no light fixtures around the perimeter until you get over here the fixtures are generally within the proximity of within the 50 foot radius so we are what we're doing is we're only lighting what's necessary it's not like we're we're coming in there and we're putting in uh spotlights it's really to meet the requirement of what the state dictates as requirement when you have an ATM right but if you looking at C300 yeah this light would not be required by any state statute correct this is this is okay where's the light over here okay would that be requ one the right lower right hand corner the lower left corner are those necessary are they Reed by okay those are right up in the front near the street right and and that's and that's not obstructing your sign that which is a separate point that we're making so those two fixtures could be killed even right I mean you have to hey I I get the lighting in the parking lot you want to be safe in a parking lot I get that too and and that goes beyond State s we're not even talking about parking lot we're talking about South Finley sting a bad thing for second when it becomes excessive and there's pollution a light pollution that's okay but but listen so you understand their point of view light pollution to them is not simply going up into the sky light pollution to them is when they're driving down south Finley which at night other than this bank and the other bank kind of you know like Darkly lit along the street but the two banks are very bright in the front Okay so to and I don't mean to lighting is needed right when you drive into a parking lot you need some light so if I can just say you know we'll take all the other lights you know I would do that but remember what I said when I say kill it I'm not necessarily talking about removing the pole reduce the wattage change out the fixture to make instead of having in the front numbers that I know you say it's not that much it's you know 23.5 you got two BL 3.1 2.6 2.3 3.3 right around your sign 5.2 can you reduce them in cut in so um book handles right y I'm not sure how well the board knows the definition of hook handle and I don't want to go into full in depth of it I just talk briefly about real quickly what a hook handle is so everyone knows what we're talking about see meur on there you will not insult them by by doing this so yeah that's a good point um so I just want to because on your drawing uh 300 C right and I have to look my notes for the exact numbers but so there's a a number there right out in the lobby is that it's like a 29 or 20 back here yeah the high number what is it 29 2 that's in the lobby I assume that would be uh on the outside like right on the that's on the outside okay so but right after the 29 going I think that's maybe South but drawing North drawing North yeah it drops to like five right within like I think 20 to 40 feet you're like five six like six feet right but it's still very very bright so the difference between 29 and five even though the number itself drops the intensity of the light is still very very bright so a five is a very is is to me it's a it's it's a lot of light I have pictures I have pictures of it you know right here yeah so five is very bright I mean so 29 even though the number is five or sixfold of the five it's can't be that much brighter right what would this what would the lighting in here be do you know I mean I don't know 15 20 see again it seems like I'm not trying to be difficult um and the application on the surface seems very simple no it's at an ATM and a couple lights but when you drive by the bank it's it's very bright I drove around the back I drove around down the street behind the bank and you could see the sort of the light pollution in the sky you know it's it's a lot of light and I I was hoping I was under the assumption that the ATM in the back of the building the Walker ATM would go away and then maybe you could possibly reduce the intensity of the light behind the building but that's not the case you're we're actually you're adding more light to the building which is where the intensity of the light is coming from now and you you you even mentioned that instead of adding and I know you are adding the four lights on the perimeter along the walkway the driveway yeah right there is light more like needed in that area if someone's going to walk up the that walkway especially if they're in a wheelchair or something but but what you said before about the lighting at the ATM where the statute the state statute only requires 10 and you're you're proposing 20 you're adding more light intensity at at at the adjacent to the building which is where're it's already obnoxious in my opinion so that that that's really my point is is and I'm sure Bank of America is happy to have as much light as possible to to advertise their Bank no well that's the way a lot of people see it it's the way I see it I mean I design it right so my um primary focus of all this is safety right I'm not trying to right so on that how much do you think you could reduce the foot candles at those driveways to still have them safe so me okay a foot candle you had to put a candle in a one square foot cube right and so if we're looking here we're seeing 27 now if you go right under the fixture I go right here it's going to be higher right and I'm not I'm not just kind that at some point it's high right but they're not talking about the1 2 right along the curve line you're talking about what's the scale on this it's one inals 20 what they're talking about is about 20 25 30t in okay which is about 10t in from the sign now you're talking about 7.2 4.8 um bre right in the front of the bank so there's different things we have to take into account here this is an existing Bank existing location if we were designing new building new location we could do a lot of those concerns and make it better with an existing building we're kind of constrained to what we can do what we can install on the edge of the building what we can install in terms of holes we don't really have the ability to for example install a 20 foot but you have the ability to take the fix leave the pole alone swap out the fixture or swap out the lamp to to lower the wattage to lower the foot candles the reason why I'm can't do that is because we we need some light right you drive in asking you what's the minimum amount of light you can have there to be safe that's that's my question I would say two well you don't even you don't have even two canle some of these places you're saying that right now you have an unsafe condition again it's an existing location we trying to so watch this which drawing has Circle On's for argument sake what you have in the circle has to remain just for argument s so let's take where's the north drawing c31 okay North is to the right correct so let's go east of the circle down the exit Drive East of the circle you're in 7.8 8.7 8.9 and show me what come to my plan please show me where are the light fixtures that are generating forget the circle where are the light fixtures that are generating this level of light right right why can't you swap out the fixtures on those two poles and or reduce swap out the lamps and reduce the wattage that would impact your circle because your circle are from your new lights right here but this one is okay you have a double you have a double lamp on the southern side the Southeastern side of the of the property correct so the double lamp one of the lamps is facing west to give light some of that Circle correct the other lamp is Facing East correct why can't you reduce Lage and that one facing south so this part of the driveway doesn't have 78 at you're at 3.5 1.5 so it's again it's I'm at 8.9 5.9 I'm at 7.2 right in the driveway the exit driveway close to the road that's so you don't want no light I'm not saying eliminate I'm saying reduce look the in driveway you're at 2.3 0.9 1.1 why can't you adjust the lamp on the southern the South Eastern side to get numbers that are at least half what you have here I that's this is the exit I would think you'd have brighter light on the entrance you want to take a five minute recess so you guys can talk and can I before you can I talk to you yeah minute recession yes we what we just did what we just announced it you just announced it we're going to take a 5 minute recess every e e e e e e e e e back son 6 Okay so we what what do you guys have to say first oh we what we have to say is that I think we can look at doing some adjustment with respect to lighting that's outside the compliance Zone we really can't modify the lighting Within These in the compliance Zone the board engineering expert had some questions he was just biing his time waiting I said you know what ask them now because if if you have if you guys have to review the lighting in the compliance Zone let's get you to review everything so when you come back you're not going to be sent away again so Bryce fire away but first turn your microphone on it's on red okay there you go okay I have um just four questions for consideration as you're doing your consideration as you talked about I don't see anything in the New Jersey statue that there's any consideration for property lines and projecting light onto the adjoining property so clarification might be necessary on that because so specifically you're talking about you have light coming off onto the ening property the rest of the circle onto property to the South looks like it's forget about not being a zero you're up in four secondly um looking at sheet c301 which has the uh Circle uh when you're looking at reconsidering the lighting I know that the requirement for the New Jersey statute says that it has to be two foot candles at that 50 foot line there appears to be quite a few areas that have lot larger than two is there any way to adjust the lighting such that that two number is more prevalent at that boundary because I assume if they did that that would also lower the light closer to the ATM potentially but looking at it they got over 20 near the ATM so they might have some play so they can get that closer to 10 that's what that's what I'm asking for consideration that you know maintain that minimum of 10 which obviously is going to be more than 10 10 in order to achieve the two y but my concern is you know we're looking at numbers of 12.5 12.3 8.5 7.0 just to name a few at that 50 foot circle where the two foot minimum is so with the board's concern over lighting being too high could we find a way to rearrange the lighting to get that closer to a two I know there's a balance that lighting is a is a is a difficult thing want focus on the edge you say that's one your requirements of your statute you have the 10 and the two and the two is a lot higher I understand the 10 most likely will be higher than 10 in order to get to the two but the two is too high but they're adding lighting at the perimeter at the along the walkway that should help that's why it would be nice to have a study now what do we have now we have no Baseline where you say you have all this data and you do do put it this way are you asking them when they go back you want to see an existing lighting plan yes yes showing what's there now yes cuz maybe we already meet the stand maybe already meet the the the Township's point9 all right so add to your list they they want you to submit an ASB built lighting plan with all the illumination levels and Bryce did you ask about the the two drawings that I'm not done yet sir I have more comments yeah he's more okay so no I have not asked that question yet yet but he will I will thank thank you I know you don't have chairman sir to you I had I know you don't have any control over the of the adjoiner lighting but I do notice it on the plan that there is quite a few light fixtures on the adjoining property do you know if those lights are on at the same time your lights are and do they impact your readings in some way question and then finally uh I notice and I apologize for not having this in in my report the readings from the foot candle readings shown on the photometric plan C300 seem to differ from those on C300 and one sorry so c3000 and 301 the foot candle readings seem to differ is there a reason why they differ try to rep please um so in regards to Lighting on adjacent prop I'm going to go through sure um in regards to Lighting on adjacent properties you never know if those lights are going to be on or off so we have to air on the side that they're going to be off um when doing our our lighning calculations um in regard to uh C300 and c301 uh C3 300 is at grade c301 is at 36 in or 3 ft uh so if you look on the bottom left of the drawing you'll see that it's full sight at grade or on c301 it's um at 36 in um so if you don't mind I'll jump so is there an industry standard as far as which what level you use grade level or 36 so why do why are they different in other words doesn't it make sense to have them both at the same level doesn't the state law require the 36 yes so we we show the compliance area at 36 uh because of the the State statue uh it's more traditional to be um at grade so that's why there's a difference between the two um in regards to the other question about um as builts I mentioned that before that were in order to provide the light we have to add light poles and so there's a need to light those areas um the poles you're talking about yeah so we need the poles and no no no I I understand and I don't I don't think we really have an issue with the poles we have it's more the light coming off the building is where the intense light is coming from entrance they have the full s just to um we'll try to address that request providing resisting light level right and just to reemphasize what I just said and I believe I said it earlier the light in my opin well it seems obvious the lighting there's more light needed at the perimeter so we don't have an issue so much with the poles where the the new poles right it's the light coming off the building that's very very intense that seems to reflect off the building I think is the building white okay so you know that matters can you I'm not going to ask you to paint the building okay or put up a fence for that matter or plant any trees right you're getting off easy tonight okay I'm sorry Bryce no you're all right you're fine uh um one other item that I would uh when you're verifying your information uh the photometric levels on C300 um near your proposed single pole at the beginning of the handicap ramp there is a foot candle reading of zero almost underneath that pole that fixture so there's something a Miss there get and show him that so we can see what you're talking about sure yep you got it what was that I missed that it's just zero on the on the screen you see the there is a zero look at that screen right here Zer and where that double the double uh light fixture poll is there's a two is that a 20 something or what is that supposed to be I looked I think it's a 20 something yeah underneath the double I think it says 21 2.1 or 21 oh 2.1 I'm not sure if it's 21 or 2.1 look atual yeah because it wouldn't make sense it's 2.1 no but the the zero stands out there should be no zero in the middle and actually shouldn't be a 2.1 under the double no right so just when you're clarifying please look at those numbers just to make sure thank you chairman I'm that's some questions I have at this time all right uh Mr schide do you or we no I don't okay so um might be might have things but let me you have to figure out tell us how much time you think you need to do this because right now May 7 is available there's one other matter on potentially thought it was the 21st the 21st is for Fellowship oh right May s is for Kars I believe it's like a condition conditional accessory apartment thing or something like that now May 7 might not give you guys enough time but May 21 I don't think fellowship's going to take the whole night I have no shouldn't be like tonight right shouldn't be like tonight well I'm turning to my colleague here to see because you need to produce a as built lighting plan which means you need someone out there with a meter to do that plus you got this other stuff I don't think you're going to be able to you need to get the plan in so I mean this at least 10 days before under the ml 21 days 21 for the planning board huh planning board asks for 21 no they ask for 21 days un they wave that but they could wave that to make it the ml 10day but still if it's 10 days before May 7 there's no way you're going to make May 7 correct we also have to do that but I'm thinking May 21 21 yeah so want to keep on uh keep on moving okay uh before I go does anyone else on the board have comments questions no can't do I cannot make May 21st and neither can Mr okay right but you guys could do a report we can do a report we can't we'll both be out of country yeah I think we need Mr Bry yes have about what's the the board's first meeting in June hang on beeting June 4 huh June 4 yeah all right listen instead of May 21 how about June 4 first let PO is everyone that's now up here on the dice can they make June 4 yes yes so June 4 you'll have all five of them that will give you plenty of time and hopefully you can do that under the 21 Day rule rather than 10 days Mr Dr we're going to need an extension of time the current time to act is uh April 29th all right so let's get an extension you can you can he make June four Che Al in the intern when he's checking can you give us an extension till August 31 just to make yeah so you're going to give an extension to August 31 June 4 how's it look he can make June 4 what's 21 days before June 4 it's easy for me to ask the questions right let's have a contest who can come up with 21 days before June 41st May 14th May 14th June 4th yeah 21 days before June 4th May May 21 which would be the date by which to get the plan sub aded so we can have the board experts be able to review them and not give you a report the day of the meeting 21 days before June 4 is May 14th May 14th okay May 14th not May 21 no that would be 14 heing 21 so just to go over the dates again the the new hearing dat is June 4 yes and the submission deadline is when May 14 May 14th and the extension is August 31 so right so before I go with my comments Tyler do you have any more comments I think you guys should give them anything you have on your mind tell them now because Mr Seville any comments no I defer to the chair anyone else Mr MC nope is Mand do no all right then I'll go through my list so some of it it's a little scrambled and uh some of it we've already covered I just want to go through it uh so these these pictures that came with the application their daytime they really for this application for our purposes they were not helpful can you provide these pictures at nighttime current conditions a good point yes okay uh let's see so regarding the the relief you're seeking I think the number was uh Dave was it 32 well the numbers are I think they indicate one of my comments clar that the maximum at any given point is what you were requesting for your variance but but but the the ordinance regulates the average the 0.9 is the maximum average so your I know you show it's like 2.1 or something for the entire site I mean technically it's for the parking area and the sidewalk area I don't know if you can trim to be specific um you know not include the area outside the parking it it's pretty minor but but the main point I was making was it's not you're not asking for Relief to exceed 0.9 to have 30 something you're somewhere in the range of two because it's it's an average not L can you make that calculation so the board knows what relief it's being requested to Grant yeah so I'll update the zoning schedule and the um uh variance and waiver table on the title sheet okay I'm sorry I was just thinking that's why I'm giving you a strange look wondering if if that's why if we had the data today if whether or not we met the ordinance today but then it wouldn't matter cuz you're going to you're increasing you're potentially increasing the lighting anyway okay so we won't even go there right we discussed the the existing versus proposed and this is um proposed right existing fixures propose lighting foot candles we discussed that yeah we discussed that lighting and just just for every so these your drawings these photometric plans you take the model number of the light fixture you put them into some kind of computer program and you it can see where the obstructions are the the building and it calculates it we talked about the numbers not matching on the drawings right one is y grade level one is 36 in okay we talked about that two okay almost there n difference in light pictures okay so net so some of the fixtures as part of the demolition are you removing fixtures I don't believe so okay so net is plot positive there's no demo okay I me I'd have to look at the actual lumer schedule to confirm but I don't believe we're okay all right that just about covers that we did discuss uh all my concerns have been not addressed all your concerns have been conveyed that's what I said conveyed con Mr chair if I could ask just one final question so U it was shared with us there is a an approval pending with the somerson County Board planning board can you tell us what that's about an approval pending you applied for Somerset County planning board approval you checked off the Box you applied for what approval did you apply for I think it's required as part of the application to submit to the County planning board just because it's on a County Street they're not going to have I know we assume you get something back saying that you didn't need County approval I have to check we may have received no letter of no interest yeah can you check on that I will okay so I guess you'll follow up um with um they know what they got to do they know you know what you have to do and I guess make an announ do you have any other questions do you guys have any questions we may um there was a comment which I'd like to address if we can get some clarity on it in terms of okay which comment uh it would be in the uh Town planners letter okay and it's comment number so this is the David schl memo dated April 11 yes near I believe this the last comment um comment number 10 okay and it speaks to the existing dumpster that's on site the buffering required and potential screening of that dumpster yeah the dumpster is just a rolling dumpster apparently been rolling around the parking lot for a long time it uh it shouldn't be there I guess is is really what I'm saying uh never approved to be there it's not in a it's not really a location at all location when you come back with the revised plans you're going to have to come back look at the ordinance there's a requirement that if you have a dumpster enclosure and it be located such and such set back and all that sort of stuff or if you're going to apply for a variance from it then you you need some good reason but just having one you know moving around wherever they're not going to they're not going to go for that so I guess would it be um would Landscaping be permitted as a uh type of screening between the dumpster and the adjacent property uh typically they're looking for an actual fence type enclosure with Landscaping um I mean I don't I don't recall really ever seeing a dumpster enclosure that was strictly vegetation uh but creative just think about that when the truck comes in and takes the thing and snows and the plows there the landscape is not going to last very long you also talked about supplementing the buffer yeah I kind of rolled those two comments to into one with the the landscape buffer in the back there is it's all deciduous and most of the screening is actually provided by stuff that is all ratty looking and you know they it seemed to me there's plenty of room with wise to uh clean up that area maybe provide some uh you know evergreen shrubs uh and and work a an actual dumpster enclosure into that green Giants ni yeah definitely I think um sounds serious the way the the bank tackles different projects is they try and focus on the specific item and I know it doesn't always we understand that but the way this board works is they don't just look at one one item they're more gal with the ordinance B the the response from the applicant was to Mr SCH number 10 which talks about the buffer and adding some and the garbage dumpster and adding some additional Landscaping uh the applicant's response was the bank has various exterior programs in development and looks to improve sites on a regular basis we look forward to providing additional testimony so I Circle this as one of my additional comments so um Can can we can we do this now as part of this application put it this way if you if you don't take a look at if you don't you're going to need to apply for Relief because under the time of application law right at the time you submit an application all ordinances in existence apply and L non- Landscaping is not grandfather like Landscaping is not even grandfather structures are grandfather a dumpster on Wheels rolling around is not grandfather and there wasn't even any approval for it so if you don't comply with the ordinances that Mr Sly has in his memo you're going to need to apply for Relief and I don't know if they're going to be so inclined to Grant the glare don't forget the performance with the glare the lighting refle lighting right so there's two right same glare ordinance that we brought up right write this down ordinance section 21- 35.2 okay right in the book this is a performance standard so you have the lighting requirements that are in 2141 and you've addressed those but the performance standard for glare 21- 35.2 no use shall produce a strong dazzling light or a reflection of the strong dazzling light or glare Beyond its lot lines exterior lighting shall be shielded buffered and directed so that glare direct light or reflection will not become a nuisance to ajoining properties adjoining dwelling units adjoining District or streets so they already brought up the fact that you have some of your numbers your lighting intensity over the line which would violate this the picture at now you already said you're going to take care instead of the up lights on that sign you're going to take care of that but you got to take a look because I don't think you comply with 21- 35.2 and you're going to have to if you wanted to get relief from this you're going to have to have some like really good reason because if you haven't figured out from the last application Landscaping is one of their big things and lighting is one of their big things it's job security anything else no I I have nothing further if that's uh all we have for this evening oh do we have any uh Public public yeah you have any public member of the public any questions no there's no no comments yet any questions in this application if we're coming back can well listen if you have any questions that that they can address between now and the time they come back than you tile Stein 172 Riverside Drive the um the spot that you have planning to put your new ATM is there any way you could go against the building itself and if it went against the building would it be be able to reduce some of that lighting um distance and I know that's your question don't give you the I know yet oh no no the say nothing else question that's the question good night okay so he wants you to throw that into the hopper and into consideration of things it actually is a good there a curiosity why wouldn't they just put the ATM building I bet to look at it now because he's going to follow up in in June but they haven't done it and he's going to ask again aren't you okay there are no more public comments um all right so Hearing in this matter in this matter continue to June 4 submission deadline May 14 theyve granted an extension to August 31 okay if there no further comments before we adjourn uh any comments questions concerns from professionals no no board members I just want to add one thing uh before John Crane left he wanted to make sure that I mentioned that May 29th will be uh the understanding Bernard's seminar focused on affordable housing something that I think this board where is that here in the Warren craft okay yeah maybe uh Cindy can send out an email that is that possible but was that May 29th May 29th who's running that do we know or maybe Tyler you can send well no we can't do okay okay that's good to know for this board yeah um I'd like to thank the applicant uh the and the applicants engineer now just do you work for Bank of America or you a consultant okay but thank you for your presentation uh and and um board professionals Bryce thank you and David always you do an awesome job and Cindy thank you and having said that uh would anyone like to so moved is that a motion to end the meeting I have uh Mr MCN with the motion and a second from Mr Seville all in favor I I for