I'm going to do the s that streaming record what's that this is going to be off the r I'm just letting them know how we're going to proceed what we intend to do is to have questions from the public of the traffic engineer for up to 20 minutes and there may be a lot more than that but that's what we're going to do because we do want to start the testimony of the architect this evening which we'll probably not get through but we want to get it started because we know all of you want to hear about it so that's our current strategy on meeting meeting strategy so for the benefit of public can I add so there's no uh concern or question my understanding is all three witnesses will be back and members of the public will be afforded a full and fair opportunity to ask each and every one of those three Witnesses a further questions uh as well as we have a as you have all heard the board has a traffic independent traffic consultant that the board retained to uh also ask questions uh and possibly have a report with respect to the traffic Engineering in the parking and then of course after questioning at some point there'll be opportunities for comment from the public right after all that part of the case is over members of the public will be sworn and so your comment has the weight of testimony equal to the weight of the testimony of all the other Witnesses so that's why we swear you with a lot of material so how are we doing Denise we're good we're good now thank you okay so John so Mr corak is available for for questions and again just confirming everything Mr Warner just said uh Mr corak will be back um this 20 minute period we are not suggesting that's the the limitation will'll be fully available for questions if the public wanted to hold them to hear from the town's professional or for whatever other case but he's now available for questions all right so uh do any do any of the public this Elite group here uh have questions for this witness traffic and okay come on question go there go to the spot okay we'll hopefully and you do have to give us your name and address but you don't have to be sworn in Diane Greenfield 15 oldwood Road um oh can I have address one more time sorry yeah address 15 oldwood Road uh you testified that the car out on man road that two trucks about fit in there my question is when the third truck arrives where is it going to be waiting right it's a great question there's not I'll Stand Up um the the space in that area wouldn't accommodate that many trucks um we don't anticipate that many trucks being on the side at the same time um but that that's the layout of site if there was a restaurant there and there unload food um or there or supplies um that's going to take some time I imagine there would be plenty times that there are going to be more than two trucks waiting to get in there may I suggest at the end of that you're saying isn't that isn't that certainly with the the retail use there are scheduled deliveries similar residential uses there are deliveries that are made to the residents however with the frequency of those uses the scheduling of them we wouldn't anticipate that level of truck traffic but if there were they would be sitting on mountary road waiting for one of the trucks to do a k turn and maneuver around the other truck that's in there to get out I don't want to speculate the hypothetical um I also don't think the truck would just sit on Mount AR Road blocking that full Lane of traffic be surprised can I ask another question yes you can ask driveway uh I know the sight line is improved from where it was currently however when the cars come around from the light they're making the turn and they're going very very slow right now um when they have that extra space there they're going to be going much faster they'll be going up to 30 miles an hour if they're not speeding uh and the sight line will be better but have you taken into consideration The Accelerated speed of the car cars and the and difficulty it's going to make for somebody making a leftand turn on to 202 across traffic over there right so the the improved sight line obviously puts you further away from that that Crest that vertical curvature um but part of that you know the roadway geometry those conditions mean that the car is accelerating it hasn't accelerated through that speed and so that's providing those Vehicles a little bit additional time um to to be able to see that car oncoming um and to to that extent this location does afford the best visibility for um Sidelines and it's also bation that is directly specified in the Redevelopment part okay thank you does model consider that the acceleration you know from the intersection fairly elegant a level service perspective or sine somewhere like this I guess the speed of the the models yeah the model accounts for for Speed certainly um the sight lines I Mr simok requests the profiles that accounts for the grade as well um and the grade does factor into um you know certain sight line requirements where uh an uphill approach requires less sight distance and that's usually reserved for for steeper slopes 69% you know if you're built on the side of a hill or something like that but um the the intent there is is that there's an acknowledgement that grade does impact site line so there's previous testimony that there'll be onsite management will there be an attempt or can you stipulate that the management company will schedule um the mass deliveries for the restaurants and the space is that possible yeah we'll we'll speak to that when we come back and talk to operations it's a good point uh another question from the public hi sens 12 Woodland Road uh two questions one is um are left terms going to be prohibited out of the into and out of the loading dock into and out of the loading dock [Music] um it's not explicitly signed but that's the intent is that the current configuration does not support that left turn movement just a follow is it possible the county is get is going to limit you anyway and so you very very likely yeah it's just possible if they get the county information maybe defer again that could be something sated sorry can I can I get that again I'm just asking that be something stipulated by and and signed on site yes that's an affirmative yes stipulated as long as the county is good and I've never seen a county say no to no left turns so so now you're in second so the engineer last week testified that trucks could back up into the loading zone and showed a diagram of that you said that they wouldn't be doing that go ahead sorry so to clarify that the question is between the consistency of the testimony I assume to clarify the first right the the trucks headed north on Mount Ara Bear right into the loading area the the outdoor portion and then internal to the site back up into the loading zone or into the covered loading area underneath I believe the diagram correct me if I'm wrong the diagram showed a truck backing up into the loading zone no was turning diagram and it showed what he said pulling it pulling up into the into the area into the open area and then backing into the toward the doorway basically that's not consistent yes that's correct wouldn't the template restrict the second truck in the turn into the loading zone and then wouldn't it take the full does it take full width the loading Z to circulate in and out right so to get into that covered loading area yes so therefore it would only be able to hold one truck I mean you could you could stage too with more movements and there's a variety of size trucks vans Etc I don't want to say it's impossible to Stage that and probably just take it we do one of the things would be to show F truck yes yes I'm I'm sorry for benefit we're going to figure out how best to do it so that it compies with process rights of everybody here all the members of the public are we looking is that one of the exhibits that was previously shown uh is that exhibit truck was A3 if I recall correctly uh maybe we can have A3 put up on the board so everybody could see it and you can ask him a question Paul you Paul you s three I don't want the public or the board members to be left out that's the point everybody's got yes so I'll go to the sheet one engineer is this exhibit A3 exhibit A3 sheet one or two if iose two pages this is the first page first page okay and Mr Stevens has some questions I recall that that was explained that that truck was backing up and that's what it looks like to me and that's what a lot of people here remember okay so I will can I my question yeah I just want other people to stop please let Mr ask this question so it could be answered if you could confirm that and then if you do confirm that that is a truck backing up can you explain how that's going to happen when there are 10 cars behind it that are not going to allow it to right so I understand the confusion but the truck will not be backing from Mount Ary Road into the dock so here's the progression I can use the mouse you're starting at the you know the South End headed north on Mount Ary Road and you could see on the truck how uh the back tires you have the two you know the the two sets of tires even your your rear tires on a on a truck are typically your double set and the front tires are the single set of tires you see how it's a thicker Tire here and that helps us Orient uh you know the the rectangle that we are showing as the truck and so that truck Maneuvers makes the right turn in and then straightens out in this loading area backs into the loading dock area can unload and then at time of departure pulls straight forward again and out Mount AR Road and you can see here how it's continuing to face North with the front tires up front and the rear tires in the back okay is it conceivable that the truck is too big to be able to do that there are trucks that are too big to be able to do that this truck the s30 can navigate the space you would agree to do the 40 but come back it's su3 is 30 feet long from bumper to rear um one more when you when you it did you show the Stop and striping on uh Mount AR Road yes be happy to the two lanes yeah next question from the public of the traffic engine come on har Hazelton I'm sorry I yes it's Carrie k r r y Hazelton h a s l t o n m grp road just thinking about this um design with the loading dock so for this building the only way that a truck is going to be able to access the building is Northbound on Mount Ary there's not going to be any left turns either out or in so how will the truck driver will there be some way of informing them that they need to be coming in off 287 in Mount Ary North so that we don't get into a situation with trucks that are expecting that they're going to be able to come South on Mount Ary and pull in um or alternatively and I wouldn't think ideally making a left on the 202 Northbound and then pulling into the residential driveway is that the backup and if so is there enough clearance for a truck to get in there underneath do their job and get out right so the the truck circulation question is something that we encounter at hundreds of sites where you have a turning restriction at the driveway anytime you have a left turning restriction at a driveway you're not able to make that turn into the driveway from that direction so it's the same principles applied here they need to come from Mount AR road to the South likely coming off that exit in 287 um and uh utilize the loading area in that way to that end no we do not the second question no we do not um anticipate or forecast those trucks utilizing the uh the res residential commercial the parking structure uh access drive for passenger vehicles so when an Amazon truck comes Northbound eastbound on 202 and gets to the light and makes a right or sees that there is no truck access there what is there they're going to then there there's not a lot of options getting back where they need to go North binley Avenue these logistics companies have very comprehensive routings uh understanding of access especially on multif family projects where you have multiple clients being served at one single location it yeah logistics companies have a very well open thank you my follow today sure so just an Amazon van not an Amazon truck they can't pull in and turn left coming out it's still going to be no left turn for them as well at this point we're looking at the left turn restriction for them as well okay I mean we're we're open to discussion from the board on it but that was my understanding from the stipulation and it also ties to deliveries so as part of it is how many of what style trucks are going to be in this loading zone sure that speaks to and what other deliveries are there and many of the Amazon Vehicles may have another way of on premise of delivering something but that's all part of the discussion and and and the companies can certainly limit this the height and length of the trucks that they dispatch to with the Sol but still the important thing is okay how many trucks are going to be in that loading zone how does it work when to arrive all these questions are still important to answer okay um next question all Aaron Duff 51 Crest VI Drive in Burnville uh you testified that the um passenger vehicle deliveries or Uber door Dash things like that would be utilizing the residential driveway to come down as Z they have an option too they have an option to they don't have an option to use the loading zone they do have an option to use the um we're talking passenger vehicles yes yeah the option to use the the ramp out to the garage area not Lo an option to utilize the ramp down to the the parking area and if they want to be making their deliveries picking up their fairs somewh other than on an active roadway they would have to use that is that correct correct so my question is and I'm sorry that you also testified that it's a metered lot corre so gate hear there's a gate where you pay before you get inter tiet ticket I would have to defer those questions to operations how they we actually have an answer for that we will speak to operations for those for those short deliveries the GrubHub delivery and the accommodations that would be made they wouldn't be paying a meter a metered rate for those types of deliveries but we'll speak to that at a at a future meeting through operations okay understand it's important but it's y quite in scope yep no it's a good it's a good point don't get you off all right Jerry NRI sorry Jerry 36 Amar can you please spell your last name sir n e g r i thank you I have a question I I haven't heard the address of how you're going to unload for these stores on the other end where they going to where's that truck going to he's going to un load in that loading dock in the residential area and then walk they're going to walk the products all the way around is that how they're doing it so I will sort of two parts of this okay the first part is the the loading operations will take place in that loading zone the second portion is related to the movement of goods on the site I will defer that to the architect with with the full know routings and and design of the building it's important go yes last question okay try makeing a good one then M con over um on the 6os Avenue so I live right off of Mount Ary Road and the loading dock is like a concern for me um so my concern is that because the trucks can only come in on Mount Ary um we all know that that's you know that's not going to be reality because trucks are going to get diverted off 287 when there's Mount areas backed up which happens off if there's an accident on 287 trucks do not always come in on 287 they'll be coming in uh from northern 287 and coming down like you know through the main part of burnard bille they'll be coming up on 202 um also in wanting to make that right-hand turn is there any type of traffic study that can be done or projected that will kind of show these Mis rooted trucks that now have to turn around somewhere so that they can be coming down Mount Ary road because if anybody who lives in that area knows there's just all little side streets and neighborhoods so I'm wondering what the impact on those neighborhoods is going to be for these trucks that have not been told you must come down Mount Ary because they're not they're going to come in from all different directions and go oh I can't turn in there and they're going to want to turn around fast because they have delivery schedules so that's that's my concern I don't know if there's a traffic study that can be done or projections that can be made for that you know based on your number of deliveries that you are guessing I think it's going to be a little bit higher based on my little Street and the deliveries that we get but I'm just concerned about the local neighborhoods and the impact that these trucks might have on them understood and I think uh something for us to do would be coordinate with uh the for's traffic engineer to help understand that it's worth having it's worth having a section or discussion that says for trucks approaching from each of the various locations what's the expected path to people don't realize when a truck approaches from uh West only west and south they're not supposed to come to the intersection they're supposed to go up clont that's the only Road they're allowed to take and most people wouldn't know that that's the but it's important that that be included as and I agree with you collaboratively as a discussion of how TR consequences breing consequences would be expected to be handled um I know you say well they can just route them but it's like well does that mean they have to turn on white NE and go up and R over what are they going to do all right I spell last c o n o v e r so this witness will be available in the future for more questions um but now we would like to take a shot at um allowing the architecture witness you need to swear yeah you raise your right hand you swear to God our testimony about to get the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do thank you Mr Smith can you please provide the board a brief summary of your educational professional background licenses you hold good I'm uh an architect for approximately 40 years graduated of Y University um have worked in a variety of types of projects for Robert am Stern Architects are nationally known firm the among my projects have been high-end U residential projects the Museum of American Revolution in Philadelphia projects for several universities like Harvard and um I have a particular interest in in town planning I'm sorry in what town planning and your license licens in New Jersey and New York and about 14 other states they always ask the question is your license current it is I just I just read so thank you board member some up do all my fund no fun so I thought I would give you thanks chairman there I thought I would give you a quick walk through the the plans that they aren't not necessarily self explanatory um and we started the bottom with the the lower level parking plan and these of the plan submitted these are the plans that are submitted more than 10 days in advance of today correct these are have been submitted for for a long time right and the date is last revive I don't think they're revised I'd like refer to these plans as the Baseline plans for this because it's original it's the vanilla original stuff scr is it September 13 2023 I'm sorry can I get that is it September 133 2023 yes with a revision of 126 24 Mr Warner why don't we just just to be clear here why don't we just Mark why don't we just mark them anyway uh and that way there's no question and I think we're 84 should be think we did no know what we didn't do any new ones no because we just showed on WE A4 could be the whole compendium of the last revised January 26 24 architectural plans however many sheets there are what does it go from a100 to a300 okay underne CES are posted on our web the if they were submitted then yes they're there yes so we we're professionals with printing these out themselves just to be clear because they I don't believe they've been submitted well now they're marked and and please ASAP so they could be on the website if they're not already up there all right so not particularly interesting but the the the thing to know is that this is this level is completely underground so it is effectively along the the the railroad track line it is one level this level is one full level below that and effectively along Morristown Road or 202 it's it's two full floors below grade so I will go to the next hope oh wait a minute do you just want to go through all the sheets for perspective first is that what you're doing well explaining each one I I thought it would be best to explain in detail the next one I'm sorry which way shall I just navigate the mouse press the makes it difficult so I think the the one Flor plan of the garage that requires the most explanation is this one which is it is approximately the level of the loading area and and the level of Mount Ary Road at the at the at that corner here and that there's an an pretty much an entire FL grade change between the the north east corner of the site on Morristown and this one so that that's approximately like level 409 411 actually at the at the just where the driveway comes out and the level of of this loading area here at Morristown Road is 3.99 so it's 12 to 13 ft of difference between those two elevations um my colleague Paul had noted that one of the optimizations we did was actually to rais this level about foot and a half which allowed us to shorten the ramp um that's in this gray area coming down from Morristown Road and one of the advantages that that did gave us is the ability to have a direct access for pedestrians from this parking level to the corner paza on the intersection so you are able to without using an elevator and so we imagine that these are actually the primarily the the retail Park parking spaces a person be able to just actually go directly onto this onto this space so some of the question I know there were questions about you know how to how to how to retail Parkers you know know where to go and do do they have access to an elevator in fact they don't need it um and so you so then to see this area here this is the this area here is the loading enclosed loading do and I'm sorry to interupt can you try to speak directionally so that if when anybody reads the transcript you'll understand what over here and over there means okay right I'm it's hard to explain so the uh uh this is the loading area and I just the lower left hand corner is the is the is the loading area and this we talked about how the the trucks can back up in here going to actually zoom in on that spot so you can see it more clearly adjacent to the Loading area is is additional um space which we imagined will be part of receiving packages and also provides a way to get into the into the retail and also adjacent to this is the service elevator for the whole building and the uh the bottom of the trash Sho so there are two trash shoots one for recycling one for trash there's compactors at the bottom of of that these have been actually based on some of the projects that we tour that Advance has done and the larger buildings this pretty much the same size um trash and compactor uh locations and those will be able to be taken out and and picked up by a trash a trash truck again out of the same in the same location and those are completely covered and screened from public view question about the service and is that it's internal of the garage is that intended for cars or is that walled off it's walled off and some of the things we're looking at are um whether some of that space should be used for a package room for example okay you know um this is a this is an issue and I my clients will talk about that in operations later things do are evolving and each of their apartment buildings have had a little bit different answer to that so we've reserved that space to be able to deal with how much goes to that and how much we want to dedicate to getting the uh service requirements for the for the uh retail uses can I ask on that with the garbage you're saying there's a garbage shoot in compactors and I assume that's for the residential aspect of the project you have a restaurant you have retail where is your garbage for that it is it's assumed to be in this area so a restaurant has to they they have access to this level and I will point that out in a moment from and you have capacity along with 68 residences some two and three bedrooms to also manage restaurant waste no the restaurant waste would be separated separ so it is in that that wedge this labeled service and me there's a whole question of whether there'll be restaurants in this because to in terms of retail usage and parking equipment parking parking will affect resta it's a great question but there there's even a more interesting basic question about whether restaurants will be part of this I have one really important question for you which is this is a deluxe super premium residential facility and you're going to make me walk the farthest possible that you could have picked to drop my garbage down a shoe it's the absolute worst location from a resident perspective in terms of where you're telling me I have to drop my garbage and recycling what was in your head the it is it virtually impossible to the the shoots have to be to lead to compactors and the compactors really cannot be anywhere else on the side how big are the [Music] contactors well they sit in that room they fit in that room well how do you get them out of that room question no they're they they roll they're R they they are they are this is the the way that Advance has done it in other apartment this is a significant architectural problem yeah in terms of degrading the value of this project which we care about and it makes it harder to sell these units and rent them and I gave you the answer to this yes and you need to look at it again and say okay I'm pretending to be a renter of this where do I want to drop my garbage and it isn't where you got it it is not the no ideal place for it but I it's a really terrible it's the worst place for it is it is literally impossible to get a trash truck into into other places on that and I gave you the answer they may not have given it to you I did I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm just professional my professional opinion is that it it is Impractical get a truck in that place and provide the number of parking spaces we need to and to provide forget that that's not true it's unac I'm saying this point is one of many that are unacceptable this degrades the value and the profitability of this project and as architect there are a number of concerns like this that reduce the the lucrativeness of this facility and we're partners with you we lose when you don't rent and that's really special and you've picked with the whole design you've picked and this is just one aspect you pick the worst possible location for trash and there are other ways of handling it I beg to defer but well you can defer it but I defer with you you know and I gave you the it's not like I said oh it's terrible we understand we hear the we'll move on because I want so I we want to explain exp the the circulation of the garage as well yeah so cars come down the ramp and there's a control point and then to continue to the lower level they take this Middle Bay and go down and it goes down half a level this is half a level below and that continues on down to the lower to the lower level so effectively this area here is flat and that's the area that as I mentioned before weeds can weed you directly to the uh retail retail out out outside to get to the retail space uh just it's supported your statement and in explaining it that people need to understand because it's hard to visualize but what he just said was you come down the driveway you go a bit to the right on the bottom you go a bit to the left rather and to get to the lower level you go down that rant to a a mezanine level a mid level which is where his Mouse's cursor is right now that's kind of in the middle of the two flors and you proceed to the right and then you go down from the Mis down to the lower Lobby that's how it's structured and instructed So It's just tough It's if that's the way it is it's tough to a bit but in the in the top of the drawing you're basically looking at a kind of mezzanine Flor between the l14 and the l24 my question is why didn't you circulate it the other way why didn't you come in make a right hand turn go down the short ramp to the mezanine and then take the long ramp down to L2 that would have shortened the FL light of stairs up to the street for the users that that are going from the mid mezzanine to the to the street level because from a traffic perspective you don't want to immediately make a turn anyone plans a garage you you want to get in the garage before you're making a turn to the to the to the ramp and vice versa when you're coming up the ramp not making a very sharp left turn to get get out of there suffice it to say this this gave us the most I I understand that was just it's an optimization and then when we go through and I love what you did with the uper northwest corner in know the exit we go through how parking is going to work for retail or guests or visitors and or tenants and we go through that in the tail it'll P out I what percent of the are dead end yeah the one on you have the one immediate that's you have two on this floor right and so effectively what percentage of the cars are I have two dead this is L1 right so just the one on the west side is dead end well the one on the west is dead end and this is this is yeah it is oh oh that's the little mini ramp up right that no the one on the east is the mini ramp up it goes up slightly give you head that's a dead end as is this the the part that is presumably leading for the the ret I'm sorry you were talking at the same time I didn't get the and we can walk through the details later but one of the things I want to understand is how tenants will access the elevators so tennis will access the elevators from from this from this area you're going to make them walk up to the mezzanine to get in it's down to the down to the well or up from L2 you can get to it there's space space below there's another elevator access on the lower yeah there [Music] is the elevator has another stop yeah it has another stop below that y so for L1 they need to walk down to the mezanine to get to the elevator for resal which is which is I I think and it's purposeful just to answer it's purposeful to kind of say that the the eastern half of the Eastern 2/3 of this is the residential parking and that's about the proportion that we expect to have so that's what's going lead you directly into the apartments I understand and these these finished floors about 10 ft of front right yeah and then how thick is the structure they're about 10 ft apart and so you you have we're allowing ourselves two and a half fet for structure and pipes and it's not it's not a pre-cast te garage my question is the grades of the ramp because you have the ramp in the middle is um 9 F 60 6.7 6.7 or 6.6 percent percent great okay that was my question what's the grade of the rants yeah that's that's the standard for a parking garage is 6.6 per for a park or park on ramp okay I'm sorry a park on ramp I have a question about the ramps are they two-way yes it's two-way it's Park on it's a it's a you know you've been in garages whereas cars on either side they're wide enough to be 18t and 24 feet in the middle see to visualize that on this yeah because if they're getting too Steep and the doors trou you're you you're not allowed to make them that sorry you're not allowed to you're not allowed to make them too steep so it is it is a you're at about a Max yeah but it's it is it is industry standard for all all parking garages that anyone does I I don't think the elevator can work here um but we can validate it with you so if you go to your l two floor level we were saying there will be an elevator St correct on theow level what's the what's the elevation of that elevator door approximately what do you think it is three the elevators actually I the entrance to the elevator is on this level we're showing this is basically showing two levels at once so you're saying all access from ll1 and ll2 will be through that elevator door those elevator doors wherever I park no because there's actually there's two there's two different there's two different levels that are shown not you can get to the elevators at the top of this short bit and by the time you're here you're at the full level you can't get to it from there no you you are cuz you're down you're down a full level below this door is dark line that goes that's a wall that's a wall yeah so the the the the ramp is going up to on the right side and that's getting you to a really effectively a mezzanine level it's about three three and a half fet above and the other level is is is 9 ft below that so I'm looking at L I'm looking at ll1 yeah so I park in the St on the right yeah other side of the wall oh on the ramp this this this part that's an amp that's an uamp that's at 6.7 also yeah so if I if I'm parked over there how do I get the there you walk in this door here and then if you want to get by the time you're at this mid level ask my questions yeah okay okay so now that's how I get to there now I'm on the mezanine level Bob the mezanine level on the other side of the wall on the other side of the wall now how do I get the elevator there because that level is sorry I'm going back to the lower level it it these parking spaces are shown on both planets and they are floor apart because this is this part is a half level down and this area on the Upper Floor is not quite a half level up so there's enough space to get elevator doors on both in both places no so now you say I get the elevator by going I put a wall there I'm sorry yeah no it can't work it doesn't work levels yeah it doesn't work the ramp up you get crushed on the ramp up you don't have full headro partial headro on the ramp up it's not a full and you to an elevator can my architect just speak to it and just clarify you're basically going up not quite a half level on the on the stub up and you are full half level on this on the on the at the mezanine so you have a full floor of distance between those two spaces where the that split scenario no the elevator can't be at the mezzanine it is at the mezan this is the mezan come off you can't do an L2 mezzanine and L1 Upstream with an elevator do work the doors don't open properly and it's along you show on that right aisle you show the [Music] up the up it's the M let's call it no but this is this is down this is going down this is this the area at the top of this plan I'm zoom out a bit okay but it's a slope floor it's a SL floor from this point this point down this is ll2 but this these plans show this area in both plans correct because it's the mezzanine it's the mezzanine so this floor you can get to it from the side here and on the four above because you've gone up 3 and 1 half ft you're able to get to it effectively a full elevator stop above where you went in if you'd like us to to Pro provide a section diagram I'd like to grade it out right I'm sorry brightly I didn't hear spot grades gr it out with spot elevation in our report on level one you come in that ramp up is only 27 ft long before you hit the handicap parking spaces at 6 too you come up 1.8 ft so there's some issues that have to be worked out it's not a half level no no it's not it's it's crunching you against the ceiling of the ground floor units you're right yeah yes it's saying it's being creative and it's saying there's space here if we run this ramp up because we're doing the ramp down below it right so if we just run the ramp up in this spot we can kind of scooch you know against the ceiling and we could kind of fit a couple spaces there and and maybe we can get the elevator to work so Bob br's point is that the handicap has to be 2% access right the handicap is on the mezzanine it's not in that but but the root has to be yeah we'll show I'm sorry the original plan had handicapped there I think and you you've enhanced it so that's okay don't have that I once again don't think it's satisfactory for an apartment complex of the significance and importance that the elevator be situated that way that people have to walk that far to it and um have given you the the answer so it degrades the value of the project go to the next were there other question were there anything else you wanted to say about l no and I have there are two other elevators shown yeah yeah the service elevator for the residential building so that's move in move out too small but going to make you'll make it bigger I'm sure and that's the one that's by the service stock right yeah and the other elevator is to provide to for the retail users to get across the garage and use that get wears if it were a restaurant things up to the up to the corner so could you discuss how it goes from the service stop to the the old Palmer building right the existing building right and the the new so the old Palmer building would have a as it does now a door on the South Side there will be an opening in this wall so you can walk across the parking to get to that other service elevator so that that retail space can be serviced so the service for the retail other than the existing building has to go to the parking that's the way they would go yeah yeah they would leave the service area that's in the lower left hand corner on a cart whatever and they you know a motorized thing and they would go right over to that door that's at the bottom of the Sur service storage that he got there you go right through that door and then you have access to the storage facility for retail so that that t-shaped storage area where on the top the that's storage for the retail that's storage or additional space for the retail that's what they recommend so is that included in the brow square footage no no so then how come that that storage space doesn't get to the ril if you have to bring if you're bringing packages and deliveries into that area how is it getting to the retail that's that would be on the right side of the plan mean the next the next floor plan the next floor plan will show the level that's right above this where you can see and you're asking about the retail that's in the north yes East which will be the next the question is got get it upstairs so I guess you take it up the elevator well goes up the elevator what does it get it just theor just goes up on door correct it gets you to the to the retail FL oh oh sorry he mean the upper are you talking the northwest corner elevator yeah are you talking the real that's just an elevator for that facility that's it done it's internal right when we when we go to the next picture see the St over here theree onast ret right so question you got the goods I'm sorry to speak one at a time question that we're discussing is if you have Goods that are delivered at the service stock pushed through the garage to the area Mark service storage on the uh northwest corner how do the then how does the goods that are in that area move to the next floor and over to the retail that's on the that that would well you're hypothesizing that retail Goods get there well how is it going to get there well you just bring them out on the you know you don't do it on the ground yeah well it would actually be possible to relocate that elevator and provide a way to to to get across this Archway and have a little s back at back service forward that's also solved in the optimization I gave here and the question another question the Northwest blue area is that all [Music] retail yes this this area so and you may have enhanced this did you remove the fitness center no I assum it's on the that picture it's it's here it's off it's off the road so it used to be the original plans the bottom of it used to be in the court used to be the fitness center but the revised plans they've relocated which is an in so what is the what is the my question is what is the total grow square footage of the recil Rob do you remember it's 9,9 is about 99,900 8600 feet of of of retail but if you measure that those blue areas that's the 9,2 230 with the second floor of the Palmer bilding because the storage is all included because that's meets the definition of gr square footage but it's not it's not we were not counting that sort here but it's based on the ordinance and the regulations of the well we'll confirm it we'll confirm it yeah EAS because I was looking at the engineering Plan and there's differences in um so here we are at the ground floor right so this is this is the the the street Frontage which is pretty much flat with where the you know as you know there is a significant amount of grade change that Paul mentioned earlier and so the all the the retail spaces obviously open onto the onto that space on on both streets and the the tenants of the building come through this Archway and they enter a Lobby and immediately we find the elevators that go up upstairs not not Crossing they under they're under cover from the streets and they're not going past other apartments to get to the elevators so you mentioned the tenant just a clarify so that is still a tenant only Courtyard that is I recommendation I'm sorry I didn't hear your your question I I was asking if the courtyard was tant only we we imagine the control point is somewhat back not on the not on the on the street so some of that some of that Archway is available to the public no it would be available with Windows for retail to show their wees it's not publicly available but it's useful for retail person yeah I think the the remainder of floor plan I think is fairly straightforward the the the courtyard is flat and meets ADA requirements for being able to to use it which the current site has moments where it is steeper than 5% who who Ada tenants [Music] ADI yes so couple of people we it's a regulation it is a regulation we are required to provide any any sort of outdoor space has yeah yeah okay the doors have to be and the doors are not shown on this drawing for retail where where where are the doors the doors we don't know how many retailers there might be so there is storefront along that whole thing and you will be able to put it a door wherever it makes sense depending on the Tendencies and it's walk through inside the door or is there any is the door that opens Interior right there'll be a doorway into the retailer yes in storefront door doors in storefront and it's not marked on that in this sheet the plan that's noted as the shows um C on the northwest or cting area yeah what do you call those little you got in the court you got little little nooks or something seating areas are seating areas okay it's on the engineering plan they're they're noted on the engineering plan but they're drawn on this it shows on the engineering plan propos Cafe seating yeah so you provide parking to the cafe sea it's the five tables it's it's it's in a covered area that's adjacent would be accessible from the upper level of the Palmer building so is that is that gr Square sare I'm not I'm not following Mr s I'm concerned about the parking requirement for uh for having table amenities well restaurants are one for four seats and and Retail is 1 for 300 right so I'm saying that area if it's seating for a restaurant if it's uh 5 it's 20 seats you need five more parking so I hear didn't we we asked you didn't we ask you for some elevations or explanation of that area that this sure looks especially now you got a door under it right I mean so that's cool but what did it look like so you're envisioning that that area those five tables right at the top five tables they're associated with Palmer second floor correct they're an amenity for that y retail building and they're not for the there might be a window I guess to the right in the other but it's not expected that anybody in the blue to the right of those tables is accessing those tables correct that's that's correct it I just don't May the back part of that BL might be might be a restaurant or it could go the other way they're there are similar levels a bag old place all I think is whatever it is it's just helpful we understand what the is flexible then that should be the intent but I think that is the intent is in terms of flexibility we don't have any set plan for those tables we don't know who our tenants are going to be but it's illustrative of of an area it's not open to the quote to get to that you would be need to be a patron of the uh retail or whatever corre and would then have access to it it's not like I'm walking along the street and I got a sandwich and I want to go sit down okay all right but this chairman do we I don't we need a motion it's up to to extend whether you want to break or extend um well is this a do you want to just do you have much more why don't I run through the other plans and then and actually answer that the question of what that space is okay I'll take a motion to extend for 15 [Music] minutes all right I have one more question on this FL not than the mail room is that's just US mail or is that going to be for packages as well it's just us mail just US Mail Packages come down to yeah and again I think this is an operations thing that is when is found that this it has evolved a lot do the apartment on the um first floor basing the courtyard they have access right you walk out from your apartment yeah the ones that are on the south Wing have little Gardens and it should also be noted that the elevation of those floors is about a foot above the courtyard just so it's and that actually is partially due to a way to provide additional Headroom where that ramp if you remember the ramp underneath underneath the the north south Wing goes so those are like little patios they're little patios but not on not on this and because it didn't seem very nice okay so was that the only two okay I could these are fairly straightforward just Apartments so what we're seeing here is the second and third thir have a twoed over Lo [Music] now 15 feet up so second and third Flor between the front the front and the load is yes uh the first floor is the is the courtyard level so it's it's it's flat right there is a basement that become you know effectively the parking becomes a basement as it moves down along Mount AR it becomes exposed by one level and along the entire South Front got I should get get to those the fourth floor is slightly different because we have the the lower half of a gamble roof if if you will so that there are Roes that come in some of them are are full on Gables but most of them are relatively Steep and you zoom in spots you can see these areas that are really too low to stand in they're gray those are in full gable gable Roots once again for Value we do want you to consider gble Ruth not able to architecturally we seriously need you to look at using gamma roof because this is one of the reasons it devalues the project by having this kind of incursion into the space for the enrs the four Flor is obviously where the most is for root treatment there are some differences in the fourth floor oh there was there like some one bedrooms up there right on the Eastern exposure it's not it's partially due it's partially due the on the fourth floor no it's Al partially due to the impacts of the roofs and the roofs have of the roofs and the roofs have an impact you know no matter what they're what they are you know one of the there was a question about this the the bump out and yeah it is specifically designed to be a sort of a feature and be a thinner element that's coming against the street as opposed to the full 60 foot depth of County just coming along and knocking off the edge of your building that's all you got a build to every little bit helps so you know the roofs are designed so that you know they look like a they look like a a the lower half of a Gamel because you normally can't see the top half of a Gamel but it creates uh these wells in which we are able to put all of the mechanical equipment so it is not visible from outside this we didn't include any any generators that we have to have and they are able to be basically disguised completely from the public View and there's enough room for them so that's not enough mechanical units to support the number of units you have yes and I want you to talk about the Terrace and why there is a Terrace and all of the aspects of it as opposed to the Mechanicals which do need to be placed somewhere because they won't fit where you got them well for retail and for those unit units with with will fit on that side we have we're doing an 11 story building the same ratio and the same amount of roof and those units do fit there okay so this is a conceptual drawing basically let's keep that that there there is enough lo I just there I will just say there is enough room for the mechanical equipment for all of the apartments um to to be located on that in that spot it's just not on the plans these little boxes are mechanical yeah you haven't shown it on the ples there's only about 40 box yes brf units don't need to be one per unit and Retail yeah okay that's going to be interesting with cell too okay so what is access to the roof terce the roof Terrace is only accessed from the three apartments that are directly underneath it because we really can't we don't want to make the building taller and provide erress and elevator elevator access there so wow will there be any structures there access to the roof how do you I'm sorry can I get that again um everybody was asking the question so you have to if if you don't have elevator access to the roof access is from the three Apartments you said no for the roof Terrace wow so if you have to do a major repair the tenant has to allow access to their apartment no okay it's the roof it's just the roof Terrace area it's not the mechanical the mechanical area okay I'm sorry am I correct I was I was confusing them so the access to the mechanical area is through through the stair and the the top you know trap door on the top of the elevator sorry a trap door on the top of the elevators to get larger pieces of equipment in up I'm not saying wait I C you I'm not saying how you get ask the Goof terce she said it's from the three units but how do you get there no doors go downstairs hold Martini instru on I don't I think it's it's a sort of place that you go if you want to we all know this is another thing that people are very fond of having be able to say they have access to some roof Terrace and we will have a spiral stair out of the you know three spiral stairs out of those units to get up there so it's a humity three head houses I just had a question regarding the the plan that was originally um submitted and the plan that you're showing here the the width of the mechanical area in the roof terce is much wider um are you decreasing the angle of the RO or I I'm just wondering why there's such a difference I think we have it's hard Ian this the first time we're seeing that plan but I'm looking at the plans that were submitted previously and there's a clear difference in those Dimensions I'm wondering why how it's being achieved with the roof line or we've just been more careful and in the way that we we've drawn that based on the actual sections the benefit IAL side effect of gamb roofing is exactly that it gives you the option to have a more vertical wall as part of the RO you know the first part of the route to have the curve um be pretty vertical over the the face right and and the end result is you get the benefit of of a larger yeah top of the root right say and you're apparently leveraging that so yeah well I would actually say we are doing that that is exactly what we're showing is something steep it's the bottom half of a Gamel and we're just not doing the invisible part yeah from the streets invisible I mean that's that's an aesthetic thing then but I think the street the the The Gables that are shown on the street are different have a different angle than the than that I you really need you really need to think about that um of there are a number of architectural questions that are going to be related to fire safety and um you know we do need to continue and I think so therefore I mean TR to you know yeah unfortunately the laptop died back so I don't know where natural break I think that came a natural break point how don't we make that the natural break chairman okay um now you mentioned something about availability yeah so we uh we actually are not available on the next meeting date is the 28th I understand Mr Troutman is also available that night so we'd like to pick back up again on the 28th of March and all the questions oh you'll give us an extension at time to actually the end the month of March uh yes okay you just shoot a one liner I'll shoot a one liner and then we're going to the 28th I I'll actually make it the end of April so we don't thank you and for the benef of the public this matter is going to be carried without further notice to the March 28th 2024 meeting 7:30 p.m of the same room very good thank you everybody appreciate the time thank you I have one question we take appri action respect to this I'm sorry have a great we're not exper I think there's a question asending we have to go to to Executive carrying on bus everybody can please file out quietly or stay if you want we're still try to do agenda the agenda right right yeah just for the record Mr chairman to respond to the AY by Vice chairman that's right uh the um the equinet matter that is a pending application that gave us an extension of time to act through February 29 2024 Denise is going to contact them immediately to find out whether they are uh either G to further extend our time to act beyond the end of February or alternatively withdraw with without prejudice their application or what their intention is uh and I'll work with her in that regard and we'll report back yeah I asked about two we if they're not going to extend the time to act they're going to they're going to withdraw with without prejudice uh or or they might say they have an automatic approval yeah that's they're not they're not going to say they have an automatic approval because if they uh if they don't extend the time to act uh uh then then uh we can we can have the board uh have a special meeting and dismiss without prejudice their application but it's it's fun we don't have or with preice we don't have a whole lot of time so we got to get going on this we have we we we need to and you have to notice that's notice 48 hours why don't we have a resolution to say what we intend what the possibilities are we can have uh right now if the board wishes we can have a verbal resolution that in the event the applicant uh does not extend time to act Beyond February 29 2024 at least through to and including our next meeting thereafter uh then this board uh will deem the application uh uh withdrawn well dismissed without prejudice or would be denied there are options um I I um you it's not my motion to make I threw one out there for you if you want a dismissal without prejudice I believe would satisfy the concern is the dismissal AR call or their call a dismissals AR call which you're is there okay so we have four surviving so we can provide for a dismissal eligible without prejudice or with prejudice but I would I would recommend without prejudice uh in the event uh they do not extend the time to act at least our next meeting and they have to and they have to do so prior onor before February 29th Mr har you just make that m i did I'll second we could resolution we'll do a roll call is it only for the eligibles uh there only four eligible no well uh this is on the on the extension other than is anybody refused on that matter no so everybody can vote this is just on whether or not to extend it's a procedural it's a procedural vote it's not a subst vote onally members that the real they're going to be hearing they're going to be potentially B whatever you say well I app short they you want to vote what you want a a roll call roll call please okay and just before it was Mr har that made the motion and Mr McQueen that second right okay thank you Mr uh Mr Miss Gardner yes Miss Geller yes Mr gram yes Mr harwitz yes Mr McQueen yes Mr simov yes Mr Walden yes and Mr zarino yes was Jack supposed to do any response to that email they're transmittal can you just look at it again and see I'll I'll just yeah I don't know if Jack was to but we have a resolution now in place thank you for uh the contingency Okay so they're showing up in four weeks correct 28 yeah so are we and Jay's gonna he'll do the 28 with whatever What U is there anything for the we need to to discuss anything for next tending after to we anticipate having anything for for the next meeting I mean obviously I just have to check the calendar as to when the um that is yeah and in theory could that end up being on the 14th I would my recomendation would be to cancel don't cancel yet no no no no would just as a clarification I know I'm G to be out west again that week the oh did we change so we can no longer attend virtually is the current you can attend but you can't vote you can't participate but if we're not voting that day and you certify that you were on the the live stream then you can pick up the next week like you did this week yeah you don't have to be watch it you have to have a little I'll keep that evening uh you can still ask question I can still ask question yeah I thought we couldn't oh how are we going to do what what we did we did it once to do right you can't do that on YouTube that's the problem oh I'm sorry technologically if you can't do it never mind secret emoji I was answering IAL question we did have pseudo hybrid we had we had a a private Zoom yeah I think for John it's okay and and that allowed Jeff to participate was not a public that wasn't on a matter that was on the administrative um reorganization reorganization that's fine I I I'm certain that this will not include in one meeting more I can send Jeff any questions that I have that are burning I'm certain the team will ask them and then I'll just pick all right you done you drop down