e e e e e e e e are we ready we're good okay good evening everyone I'd like to call to order the village of biscane Park Code Compliance board meeting for Wednesday July 17 2024 and if the clerk would please call the role Janie Anderson here Dell blinton here Rula baranto Judy hammerberg AB Michael L here Ashley Bernard no Ashlin oh okay and present from Village staff D Grant Luciana nibs present raia gutterz pres Vanessa Cherry present once again good evening everyone this is the me a meeting of the village of biscane Park Cod compliance board the board is authorized pursuant to chapter 14 of The Villages Land Development code to ensure compliance with The Village's code of ordinances the members of the board our citizens and residents of the village of biscane Park we volunteer our time and are not paid for our services the purpose of each hearing is to give any alleged violators the opportunity to contest the decision of the co- compliance officer which resulted in the issuance of a notice of violation and to determine whether a violation of The Village's code has occurred or is occurring we are not authorized to dismiss violations based on hardships ignorance or the fact that others might might be guilty of the same violation these hearings are conducted in a quasy Judicial manner our responsibilities to act much like a judge in a court and that is to hear cases presented by The Village's Code Compliance officers and to hear contradictory arguments presented by the alleged violators we are not authorized to change the code The Village commission is solely authorized to enact or revise codes conversely neither the commission or the village manager have the authority to overrule the findings of the board pursuant to chapter 162 of Florida Statutes orders of the board can only be appealed to the Circuit Court of Miami date County we have the authority to assess and order the payment of civil penalties to issue orders having the force of law to command whatever steps are necessary to bring a violation into compliance and to assess administrative costs in order to make a finding upholding The Code Compliance officer's decision we must find that there is substantial competent evidence that the name violator was responsible for a violation of the relevant section of the code as charged all documentary evidence presented by the parties must be submitted for placement in the hearing file no documentary evidence will be considered unless the alleged violator or code complaint processor submits a copy for the hearing file each party shall have the right to call an examine Witnesses introduce exhibits to cross-examine opposing Witnesses on any matter relevant to to the issues even though that matter was not covered in the direct examination to impeach any Witnesses regardless of which party first called them to testify and to rebut the evidence against them if you intend to address the board and have not signed in please do so and anyone wishing to address the board please stand raise your right hand so you may be sworn in you are reminded that this board is a quasi judicial board and false testimony can be penalized please do you swear or affirm that the testimony you about to give would be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth do we have any additions deletions or changes to the agenda none I do have one change since our chair of the planning board is here with us tonight I would like to move item seven um seven bear with me four could be the first case we hear please 74 that'll be the first case we hear if we have no objections no objections and as far as the minutes if you folks remember remember we've talked about let's push those to after we've conducted all the business so these folks don't have to sit here while we go through our minutes so we we'll do that again if no objections we'll do that after we've conducted business good okay first case good evening Dorian Grant Code Compliance Department the first case um we'll hear tonight on the agenda is uh in section 7 and it's item number 7.4 it's for the address 11345 noreast 9th Court for the case number c-23 d341 William P lumry um we are bringing this case for a progress report violation was for a driveway the final $500 remain unpaid no permit in the system Mr lry is here with us and the chairperson of the planning and Z planning and design review board will be testifying I'm sorry during he has paid no not paid the fine not yet so what we're dealing with though I believe to be the lack of an approach in this case is that's correct yes this is another one of um the unique driveways we have in the the village of biscane Park it's a ribbon driveway um which I Now understand is a conforming driveway however it doesn't have an an approach and that part makes it unconforming but if you if you look around the village it's not it's not confined strictly to it's not like we're singling out ribbon driveways there are numerous driveways of various shape sizes forms and materials that with our current code are not in compliance because of not approach that's correct G might I ask you would you mind coming and explaining how we how that formulated that we do need to have that approach Mr L we we do have the conversation first there and then you will have ample time certainly certainly yeah y you give him the the mic or you can use this one even better you can keep yours now he's gonna use this one there sir thank you hi uh good evening uh Gage hardung 1029 Northeast 114 Street I am the Planning and Zoning design review board um chairman um I was asked to come tonight just uh I know there was some questions on uh ribbon driveways which it seems like that um that answer had been um um um what but if a ribbon driveway was an an approved parking surface that uh that question I think has been answered um um basically a ribbon driveway is it's the material the way our code is written is the the you must Park upon An approved parking surface and a ribbon driveway typically is made out of concrete and as long as the wheels are parked on the the the driveway the um then the it is considered a driveway and so um so I know there was some uh confusion because they are um they are like a traditional you know original driveway from uh from back in the day but as long as they're in good condition and they're in um they're they're allowed to continue there's there's nothing wrong with them as long and then you know the code does say you're not allowed to park on grass so as long as the wheels are are maintained on the driveway um the concrete portion uh they are maintained and we have as a planning board approved them recently um they are a design element so people come in and they want um a ribbon looking driveway where they can be a little more creative with their with their um their driveway and we've allowed it um um again the the the impetus being the the wheels being parked on the proper material so um the code does um uh mandate a uh an approach on the on driveways and it uh does um mandate that um properties that do not have an approach um come into compliance by a certain date originally it was January 2nd 2023 but has been um moved up so I'll just take any questions you might have or anything but but I but on the behalf of the planning board we are we are um looking at that as an approved driveway material or driveway design this would be a perfect board members have any questions so Gage how you doing um so so this this driveway you said is is good as I mean the portion of the driveway it's hard to tell because it looks like I'm looking at the approach there so as long as the part that starts at the property line and goes forward and it's the the concrete is in good condition it's it is a driveway is that concrete or is that like press Rock it's concrete yeah it's concrete but not the approach part of um code is that you have the approach has to it I'm referring to the ribbon part not the the approach part okay that part okay okay just the approach have to be the exact material or can it be something comparable that is design element your board would the way the code is written is it's it has to be of um of the uh it has to be of the same um material but of or of a of a continuous design let me just uh um it just basically you so you could have like concrete and gravel you could have concrete and and uh pavers you could have con but you had to keep the the the the design has to be of a uniform design so it could be multiple materials as long as concrete is if that's what the driveway is it's brought out into the the approach L this would be perfect opportunity for you to ask any and all questions sir the words right out of my mouth because I that that's the question I had does it have to be the same material the approach has to be the same material as the actual driveway all the parking surfaces shall be one material or of a unified design throughout unified so would you suggest Mr Lum perhaps get on Planning and Zoning is planning and design review as a discussion I I know i' I recognize them now um because you have come I think maybe when you were cited you you came in and spoke to us I don't know if it was an agenda item right or if it was before but we I do I do recognize yeah you sir and so please come and you know we'd love to talk to our residents can you have a brick pav in the in the Swale in the approach and then the driveway the ribbon is concrete if you again I I have this is when I'm going into I can't speak for my board but I would say in my interpretation personally if you had Rick with a with a combination of concrete right you probably could create a uniform design as the way the code is again I can't speak for the board but I'm speaking for myself but does that have to be meshed together from the the two ribbons the two strips into the approach has to be Blended in it would it would be You' come up with a design either having the the bricks outlined with the with the concrete or having the the the approach concrete and and the bricks papers around it um but there there needs to be a combination of the two says UniFi unified design but you cannot have gravel in the approach and then the two concrete strips the the ribbons the two no you could I mean you could have I mean right like if you if you look around there are people that have installed um gravel with a with the the necessary concrete border that is required around gravel so you so then you end up having concrete with the gravel in the middle and then the concrete continues into the property that is a that's considered a uniform design so if you I'm trying to think of places in the park where I've seen people put in approaches and they've done things like that all right see okay mhm or or concrete concrete concrete blending in with the two strips that are already there the ribbons the two yeah kind of right okay would they need a permit just to do the approach or can they just go ahead you need a permit for the approach right has to go through p and p and d doesn't it yes yeah you just apply for a driveway permit and just on the survey Mark what you want to do and I want to do rete and just do a little drawing a little highlight it and there's a there's a calculation form which I think you have right there yep you have to fill that out and 23t yeah and then it's usually pretty standard it cannot exceed 40% of the um the portions perious percentage so so if you have a 75 foot wide uh Swale you can only cover 40% of that okay M 40% in turn of the driveway but you're not looking the change d right am I correct would he also need to submit a survey at the time of applying for this yeah so a survey application with the the calculations is usually what we looking so you would have to have a survey with your application I've got it done it's it's all yeah all right do we have any more questions much yeah thank you very much I appreciate the clarification and the time the gentleman can ask you question directly we have one more difficult case can he stay just for little bit we have one more difficult case after this case could you stay for just a little bit appreciate it um we're ready for a motion I'll make a motion that we table this until the August uh to well let me stop I do have a question you said there was already a $500 that's correct outstanding that we've already ruled on this in the past yes we you have okay but right now it's just more progress that's correct um at the last hearing they had asked him to go and apply for a permit but um there was a little hardship there Mr lary didn't have access to computer so I would ask that in a situation like that it would have helped to have that order of enforcement own that a fine already existed because we try to remember everything of course but that doesn't always happen so when we have cases that we're pulling forward understandably but things like that that's critical to be there so we would have known so interrupt no no no I'm I'm I I I I don't I don't think I was here hearing and I don't remember so all right I'll I'll go ahead and make a motion in case number cn23 d341 that we table this until August get a progress report I would expect Mr LOM you applied for and obtain your permit by let's see okay let's see when the pnz meetings [Music] are okay there's a there are two meetings it looks like in August August 5th which you would need to apply by July 29th so that gives you over a week sir we'd like to see you I think on the 5th calendar so that then you can report back at our code meeting what the progress has been uh on getting your permit approved and also remember so you have an outstanding fine that does need to be paid yeah so that's my motion that we table could I ask a question about can the contractor actually send the permit on his computer to this game Park here that's correct he can fill it out on can apply online well he can do that yes sir the entire the the permit and the other forms that's correct you just have to pick up the package from the office he can fill it out upload it to the computer yeah I've got it all done it's all yes it's just one he has to sign does the contractor sign the impervious uh perious I believe so unfortunately I'm not building I'm not sure about that but um or does the architect sign that uh sure before we move on that would be a question I mean a secondment pass by the office again will all favor oh okay I I any opposed okay motion passes 4 Z we'll see you back here sir in August okay August 5th is the Planning and Zoning meeting and you do need to put in your application by July 29th oh that's Planning and Zoning yeah you got to be there first sir if that's where you're getting the permit approved or not approved you got to go there first then back here okay first I'll get this through yes sir for the permit right the first right okay y [Music] thanks next case is item 7.54 is for the address 11345 Northeast 9th Court I I'm reading the same case I I apologize Mr ly he's like are they calling me back 7.5 the address is 119 9 21-23 noreast 12th Avenue the address is c-23 d339 it's for IET Romain and Jin M Pierre there's an extension uh that was granted for the comply by date to July 17th which is today um this is a violation for a driveway um Mr orlette is here they've had some difficulties in resolving um how the driveway would sit on the property property I believe planning and um design board has given them some suggestions that his contractor came to the office and he said he was unable to do it the way the the recommendation was given but she'll go ahead and explain at this moment I'm looking for another contractor because he went up on the price I need you to speak up I'm sorry when you're our height you got to pull it okay he went up on the price so I have to go with somebody else so at this moment I contacted somebody else he drew this and I would like to show it to you guys to see if that's acceptable then we continue with it I'm going to ask the planning and design board chair if he wouldn't mind to come forward and come back up to the Dan that way you can ask your questions of him when it comes to design okay that is his area oh this is a concern and that this case started April 2022 so want to kind of remind everybody do you have the original one that was tonight two years and three months so I mean from what I'm looking at I it appears that what you're doing is providing two driveways it's a duplex correct so you're providing two parking spots where you can have parking spaces in tandem a 10 foot by um 47 foot uh two two strips and it looks like the majority of the paring is on your property I don't recall the exact um what you had applied for previously where um but I think it had something to do with the fact that you were not having the parking spaces on your property they you were you were showing just the parking spaces in the RightWay so yeah so this the original design was you were you were just having the parking spaces uh on the RightWay and we were and we had told you that we we uh we wanted them to be up on your property you had to provide the two the the four parking spaces total on your property so so this design either the this this circular either circular or this way you're showing it here looks like they provide the parking the necessary parking spaces on your property so you just have to get on to the next planning board meeting and uh we can reconsider it with with either one of these designs pick I guess pick one that's a nice simple design right there you can we could simply design say one two three four parking spots and you're you're good um and then we can hopefully move you right along any question in case we would ask the board for another extension of time on the comply by date but that's what that was going to be my question because I see the um the order order of enforement Ms on June 20th right um and so at the last hearing it was granted an extension until today today that's correct okay he has paid um some of the fine part of it she paid $125 on the 250 June June 19th was the original date again we started this two years ago but at this points I don't know that we have a choice um um go ahead all right on uh case numbers c-23 d339 I'd like to make a motion to table this to the August hearing U provided and direct the resident request the resident to apply uh for a permit or have a permit pulled uh by then next Planning and Zoning meeting is on uh August the 5th the applications should be sub August the 5th the application should be submitted by uh July the 15th no the record there is a permit on file she has submitted a permit but this is a new drawing oh the permit is okay in the system she just has to go back to Planning and Zoning we just do a table it to the August hearing I I'm sorry I sure I'll second for discussion I think that if we just table it we again have another open ended issue I think we need to set a deadline by which we expect her to be able to come back with a fully approved permit because it's already been tabled twice surely on the third extension she should be able to get it right this time and we just kind of keep tabling things without an incentive for people to finalize what they need to do so I'd like to see our code date as in August as her final date to come back with well I mean you know you're talking about final dates and making sure she complies I think that what I've heard is in you know irrespective of of when it started what what I've heard is is uh that this neighbor has uh you know got gotten a uh a contractor there was an issue with the contractor contor you got a new contractor you got new drawings you've already got your permit you paid partially on the fine so I see substantial compliance so you know I don't want to sit there and you know I agree with an incentive but I think we got to table it you got to go to this uh hearing ma'am in front of the Planning and Zoning you know to get these plans done um you know but I think that she's doing everything right at this point so I don't want to put some kind of a deadline in there you know bang her when she comes back in if there's something with this contractor or something and then now you know hit her with some other fine I I would just do it like we did the last one and just table it also I would say that we already have a f a daily F in place the only thing and we with withheld the daily fine ending till August so it come August if she hasn't come in compliance we can at that time um reaffirm the daily fing but we could we could do exactly what you're saying but still set the August code board date as a deadline and we can still do what that's exactly what you're saying is yes if she's not in compliance by August then we can reinstate the daily time but we have to have a date to do that well I think what Dale is saying is that the stick is already in place it's GNA be in place until August so you can hit her with the stick in August because the daily fines can be reimposed that's what he's saying it's already there we already have it we already extended it so that's gone to August no to August if it's not done in August by our August hearing it's there all you're doing is That's great so all I'm saying is let's put the date of the code Board hearing in August so that that date is there and you know we have to come to a it's already there the question is is there be a motion to reaffirm or to not reaffirm on that date there's no need to do it because your stick is sitting there in the August hearing for you to hit her with it if you want to you make a motion to reaffirm the date is already there date is uh August 7 fines will start running August 8 if there's no compliance make August 7th as the date is to come back if not then you know with the progress report if not we can reinstate the daily fine well our next hearing is August the 14th that's August 7th it's been changed pardon August 7th it's Chang from this okay that's good yeah so that's just a few weeks three weeks that's right after the pnz meeting then honestly with our with our date that early that's really if we're going to work with her as much as we can then I would actually push it out further than that because the fifth she's not necessarily going to have time to have pulled the permit get per but she's got to redo everything I'm sorry if if that still causes issues now I feel differently because seeing how early our meeting is which normally it is not I would I would say getting a progress report on August the 7th so she would have gone to pnz by that time it would be a yay or a nay and then whenever we hear it on August 7th we can determine we time I mean because if comes back and Doren and and luano says yes um pnz approved it it's just a matter of Tiding everything up we already got permit we should be fine so I'll leave my motion you want to repeat your motion now that I bued it to uh table into the August uh 7th hearing I'll second all in favor I opposed motion passes 4 Z need to go to that pnz meeting it's August 5th and you need to apply by July 29th please write that down August 5th by July 29th yeah yes ma'am have that paperwork over to um the Village by July 29th thank you for being fair okay yes ma'am have a good day next item 7.1 address is 675 North East 115th Street this is for case number c-23 d276 for Matthew carel this is a progress Kal I apologize for that this is for a progress report they are scheduled for a discuss as a discussion item for PN D on July 22nd this violation is for a driveway and just a reminder to the board this is the case that um was heard before um they've they have been unable to do their driveway because they have a septic is it um B it's a drain storm drain that was installed by The Village right in front of their the great so wide you can't get out of the car right just about yeah what what the started that is we we couldn't Park on our driveway because they put we putting the drain in there so we parked in the yard so first first got a violation we park in the yard we we we I put gravel and and graes on top of the uh on top of the drain so I could park in the driveway then we get a violation because the driveway is not not not the code so it's been a it's been a um an interesting process you can't win for losing it's an interesting process but now we have a meeting with the planning owning board on on Monday we were told by The Village manager and um other people in the village that the drain was by Public Works the drain was installed incorrectly by whole street is the whole street is cavitating and have potholes all the way down the street the bigger problem we have there is workmanship that was done there it was so bad our yard has sunk three inches or four inches where I put gravel on it to refill it again to try and make a stable surface Rock and park my truck so based on our planning and Zing meeting on on Monday they're going to give us a ten of approval hopefully on what we assume would be a a code compliant driveway but in the interim we want to put a gravel finish putting the gravel there so it looks better for us and our neighbors we have a better service to park on so right now we're here just to I guess to um for an extension or to to table it till something else more happens and I would like to put it on the record that the Public Works director had confirmed that the drainage system he's talking about was installed by The Village wrong it was supposed to be on the other side of the street oh my goodness and we have a very narrow lot a lot only 55 ft wide so it's very difficult to get three cars there to start with and much less so when you have a a drain that's eight inches 10 inches below grade and you've already initiated working with planning and Zone yes planning and design right and that we we try to make it two meetings already but due to lack of having a a quorum they couldn't had to reschedule meetings now we're officially scheduled for the Monday meeting which we're well prepared for and and hopefully next time we talk we'll have more positive information to follow up on unless anyone has any questions I would make a motion that we ask fine gentlemen to come back in September and I'm sorry in August and Philly in on where you are hopefully by then because there are two meetings in August right I mean at the end of the day you're not going to be able to do whatever it is you want to do to that driveway until they change everything right first off I'm G do I'm put I'm put gravel there to restore the gravel driveway that we had there before just bring it up to present presentable for the village and for our neighbors and for us especially my wife was recomended it was recommended they recommended that we do it but they don't plan on uh when they the next phase of waste or stor water he really can't wait it's it's going to be three years we're not going to wait three years to do what we need to do I want to take care of what we have now to bring it to we have a good working a good service work but also understanding coming going forward what do we need to do and how do we work with the S with the village and the contractors when our drain gets moved our D the brand new drive we put in there we spend $1 15,2 driveway won't be trashed because they they didn't prepare the surface properly so it's it's a very it's a Paul you brought pictures the last time of how the water is like going up into the neighbors yeah yeah it goes It goes up 10 feet in our neighbor's yard across the street there never flooded in 35 years in my front yard my backyard flooded last time you had storm it flooded 4 inches all across all my neighbors my yard my front yard not a bit so that's how B that's how bad it was placed that's not what we're here for my driveway is a trous my wife yell at me for years we want to take care of that but going forward we want to make sure we make good decisions work for us and city the city even offered to the Village even offered to go ahead and spend 20 $25,000 just to cap the drain so I said I think it's a waste of money to do that I've got what I I've balanced out the drain I understand how this works I put gravel on temporarily so I can park there but we want to make sure it's viable and works for all the parties involved not just for me not just for the village or not for the contractor who's going to be doing the job excellent so I'd like to go second your motion to table it until August hearing thank all in favor I oppos motion passes 4 zero thank you both so much next item 7.2 for 940 Northeast 119th Street this is for case number c-23 d513 for alexand Alexandra an alvo progress report uh driveway permit dws-2 4-22 on the record violation was for a driveway they're asking for a 60-day continuance because their driveway is in a in the review process driveway permit is in the review process driveway the permit is in is is in review it quite Advanced they're they're getting ready due to the rains that we had in the past I I I was a little bit nervous on on adding so much concrete to my yard I've never had water in my yard and I literally had one inch it was four inches above the street one inch before it entered my house and uh so I know that this permit is in progress but I'm still in it hear that ribbon driveways were approved or is now I have a ribbon driveway it's under underneath the gravel so but anyways um so yeah now I I've submitted some paperwork improperly and now I'm waiting for the review I'm seeing once again the only order of enforcement we have is from April where we um table till July do we have anything prior was was there a fine assessed at any point I had a permit in progress at that time so they had applied for the permit at the time so there was no order of enforcement fines and you wanted them to come back with a progress report which we happy to report that their permit has advanced and is in review right now so is your new driver going to be concrete it's proposed to be yes but you're but now you're seeing issues with the concrete well I'm yeah the the amount of drainage that it seems my yard requires it's it could be a problem with adding this much concrete ma'am can you please in the mic because that's the only way it gets recorded when we moved in we had ribbon driveway on both the East and the west side and it the we had bought the house it was a two-story duplex it's now um a a one single family home um but the flooding and the mudding was so bad that we put gravel so that it would help when we were building and renovating and stuff and it was the only way and now that has helped but we were just worried that with the recent flooding I mean it was coming in my front door it was coming in my back door like if it was anymore I would have our whole first floor would have been flooded like centimeters away was leaking in so I'm just concerned with um you know the implementations that you guys are requiring us with all these cement driveways that we're also looking forward to the future 10 years 15 years down the road that we're all putting all this money in and invested money in new driveways and in turn it's flooding our homes so I don't know he he called and was curious and had a lot of questions after the flooding and and just worried if you guys I mean you're all far more advanced I that you've maybe looked into the future and that these driveways are the right way to go and that you know as far as cement um I mean we're doing it we have a contractor but I hope it you had Alternatives you did not have to choose a concrete driveway in fact gravel is very definitely an alternative it's just that it requires a certain depth of border now but you did not have to go with conc you're right I didn't but aesthetically comparing to the new mcmansions that are coming up when there's like a $4 million do house Three Doors Down Like You Want to adhere to the Future and the future of biscane Park is becoming a lot like Keystone Point where it was middle class homes now it's like millionaire mansions and that's like the future of bisc Park is leading towards and you're implementing driveways obviously we in turn want to little by little futurize our own home and make the driveway the cement is the best but the drainage for the city itself and what you're responsible for the city is responsible for is what I'm worried about like we're implementing these driveways are you guys making the right Provisions like the gentleman before that had a drain put in on the wrong side of the street like are we are there ideas being talked about with all these cement driveways going in right now we have to deal with your property and your driveway Daren where are they in the permitting process this case they are I think it's just one more review and the permit will be issued I think I finally got all situated yes it'll be at the next pnz hearing August 5th yes they've already been approved by pnz I believe yeah but uh my Approach was design review yes I'm sorry building review correct okay and that we should have some information by the next hearing absolutely I'm sure they will have a permit by then okay I'd like to make a motion in case number c-23 d513 to table he I'll second all in favor I opposed motion passes 4 Z we'll see you folks in August thank you thank you thank you next case 7.3 1103 noreast 117th Street case number c-23 d447 Aqua King 1 r l LC in care of the registered agent Thomas Sherman this is a violation for a driveway they here for progress report there is there is a permit in the system that was just submitted 20 minutes ago DWS for the record 2443 this property is in the process of being sold and correction dur is sold has been sold Elena is the current property owner this is the current property owner yes so the property name will change I I believe this is will be stay you it will be under company I need two things if you would speak it will under you would identify yourself in your relationship to the property I'm a owner owner I'm owner of the property so a permit was uh submitted today yes yes if ances are it won't be um You probably will not have the uh uh forms ready for pnz for the next hearing they'd have to be submitted by next week I believe correct they no not for the next hearing probably for the one on the 22nd there's a hearing um Tuesday and another one on Monday so the one for Monday they may be able to get them in two weeks in two weeks two weeks okay yes right so but she wouldn't get on to pnz until around the August the 19th that's correct okay which is after yes so unless somebody has any questions no I'm good I'd like the table I'd make a motion in case number c-23 d447 to table this to the September 19th okay second September 18 looking at the two different things right September 18th hearing okay thank you so much I'll second all in favor I closed motion passes 4 Z next item is 7.6 um for the record that case is in compliance 11947 Northeast 12 court and the case number is c-23 d332 former Cel c Paris Augustine D Paris and Kenny Jeff Paris they were renting long-term without a permit they now have a permit and have paid all the fines they in compliance they're in compliance that's correct um I'd like to make a motion on case number c-23 d332 that the property is now in compliance and fines have been paid and to close the case second all in favor I I opposed motion passes for zero next case 7 .7 the address is 12010 Northeast 11th Place case number c-23 d48 this is for bro fine LLC in care of their registered agent Miami accounting and tax services LLC this violation is for exterior paint um paint was discolored this property was recently sold and we have the new owners here I believe before you speak I I I know that that when we were taking the oath that you were still sitting down and you kind of stood up at the end so I don't know that he's taking an oath I don't know if he's going to testify but I just wanted to point that out we do the clerk just where you in sir thank you please raise your right hand do you swear orir that the testimony you to give will be the TRU the whole Tru or nothing but the TRU yes if you would identify yourself in your relationship to the property yes my name is Gerardo wda and I represent the owner you're an attorney no I'm not question we're here this this is for unight paint discoloration I see it's painted well no this case just for the paint yeah there's twoes all right we have two so I see I see it appears that it's been no it hasn't been painted oh it's just pressure clean no look at the uh no we didn't do anything I saw 79 oh well see I see this picture that's why I was yeah it's only half of it Oh I thought it was um this was before and after okay CU this says 49 and this says 79 that's see what I'm looking at no no I said when I saw it yep yeah okay well then my next question is so it hasn't been in compliance my next question is is that you said it was recently purchased uh how recently so do you recall when this property changed hands when you when the company you're representing took you're representing took over the property yes uh we the property was purchasing may I believe yes the deed wased in March March March okay 2024 oh okay uh I was with you in the previous meeting uh with the the other group also and uh because we are applying to turn down the property and build a new property um the violation has been dismissed if we present the Advance on the project we have the permit in place ER demo permit the not the demo permit the first is um permit um has been submitted for the new building so they are in the process of going through that process they'll demolish the building however they had to submit a permit first to show what they were going to do with the property exactly that's in progress now they are they are working actively yes yes and there is a with the planning design board is not been scheduled yet but they say anytime soon have to discuss to discuss the details of the property uh with the planning design board ER our architect Angel saki is working with other projects also for us and he's also working for this project in bis Park I mean obviously we can't very well tell you to paint a house and put in a driveway when clearly there was going to be major work done but we need to be comfortable that there's an incentive to keep going to do what you're asked to do from planning and design because I'm yeah no problem I I offered last time to to do the painted or the power wash to make it look good for the neighbors they say not necessary but I can do it I mean we can understand so there's no point in putting you through that when it's coming down but we have to but at least to make it comfortable for the Neighbors we need to be sure that there's going to be constant follow through because it's going to be a big project there's going to be changes yes probably going to have multiple times in front of PNC but we see too often where it starts the PNC process and then it just sort of limos forever so yeah no no in this case we we like to do fast why do they do the fence around it that's that was my question exact question I was going to ask Dorene how long I mean is it does anything stop applying for a construction AB go around the proper absolutely not in fact the permit was this U main permit was submitted uh July 15th that's one thing they will ask you to do is install a construction fence oh okay get when um when a permit sir not just install the fence it requires a permit also yes okay but I believe it's not approved yet no it's a still the the we can do it the clerk received um the application whatever is missing whatever you need to do she'll be communicating with ah okay Jessica is that Jessica your yes she is the assistant of our contractor right so Jessica and our building clerk will be communicating until all the paperwork and they'll let you know what you need to do to get your construction site right ready yes yes she's taking care of everything Dorene I go back to my question um there's nothing prohibiting them from putting up a construction F getting a permit for a construction fence next week to have it installed nothing at all okay they can go ahead and do it they can do the permit I mean the construction construction fence of what else going correct okay okay so if he would apply by the 29th there's no reason he can't be on the fifth you don't have to have a permit for you don't have to go between pnz for construction F you do they still do they have to make sure it's in the right place anchored right yeah do th this board has the authority to um order them to put a construction fence they can go for an after the fact permit but he hasn't started construction yet so there's no point to doing that that absolutely fair I understand in the previous properties they didn't let us put the fence until was approved the demolition would you prefer the look of the appearance to do a power wash or make it look nicer property in the meantime that would be up to this board because I'm just trying it's less ugly exactly I'm just trying to think of Remedies and one of them was a construction the other thing was to you're going to need it anyway or the other thing was to um uh bring the property up uh to to some standard uh more than what it is you can come for the construction fence we'll try and push you to go through pnz quickly okay you're going to need to get the fence anyway sir might as well okay no problem um I have some plans for the architect but the exterior design is not complete it's only the discussion on the that's what you'll need for Planning and Zoning planning design it's going to be ready for but is ready for the probably any time the fence is temporary so you could actually do the fence before pnz even looks at that okay so we're ready let's say when tomorrow July 29th by July 29th you'd need to apply for it and the PNC meeting you'd attend would be August 5th okay excellent uh between 48 4,800 maybe we're trying to make it smaller but didn't work for the owner stor yes um so on case number c-23 d408 like to make a motion to um give the property owner until I mean to apply for a construction apply for a construction fence or obtain a permit for a construction fence and have it installed by August the 7th 29 construction fence okay just yes or to apply for inst sure I mean what I'm hearing from dorine they can go ahead and put in the construction fence right and then apply for the perm then they have to pay but then you'd have to pay the double perit is that a double permit Fe it's going to be a double permit fee since it's not torn down the point just to get it up right there's nothing dangerous there at this point and also might protect the property we have been invaded in that property like a a month and a half ago so people they were living there well so I mean if they've done it it makes no difference but it's if it's by our next hearing anyway so uh to apply and have apply for the perm to obtain a construction permit a fence and to have it installed by August the here no I mean I'm just giving them enough time to pnz so August the um uh 19th okay a second they p theay a double all in favor I I opposed motion passes 4 Z that's in construction fence installed by August 19th I don't think put the if not a $250 day fine thereafter okay all right so until August the 20th $250 F was start if it's no problem we need a second on that amended motion second all in favor I I motion passes 4 Z thank you um sir one more case I would like to put it on the record that there were fines assessed on this particular case and those fines have been paid next case 7.8 for the same address same owner this was for a driveway and sorry you don't you don't get to go that quickly with the new permit in place for new construction it will include um a driveway so that already includes it it includes the driveway it will be up to this board to either dismiss this case or hold on to it until my motion would be to dismiss I'll second all in favor I and opposed motion passes for zero and for the record there were fines okay for the record there were fines on this case as well fines have been paid thank you moving on to new business section 8 of the agenda item number 8.1 for 739 Northeast 118th Street for case number c-23 d285 for Pb P6 LLC in care of the registered agent Rondon law um PC we asking for an order of enforcement there has been no permits for this violation for a driveway yeah Dorian there's two there's two properties the the last picture that we have is a two-story building and the other ones are a single story building or the last case we just no no for this one right now 39 yeah no it's just showing a different angle oh just a different angle she showing a different angle oh it's the small wooden house yeah and has that and has that res has that Resident contacted you guys at all um because they're not here we have not heard from this resident at all it's not a homee property they they did receive the notice to appear they signed for it but um no communication and they have there are no permits on Fire And so there's no communication and the notice violation was almost a year ago August the 18 when wait when when you said that you served dorine hold on Luana go ahead and say what happened with this property please um excuse me he I think he has an update I believe the property owner was an elderly resident and the property was sold to I'm I'm trying to recall the name of the new buyer but it's it's not coming to me they I'm sorry luchano I need you to speak up can you hear me now the property belonged to a longtime resident an El resident that was I guess in longterm or last stages for cancer and the property was sold uh the name of the new owner it's not coming to me right now but um is it P I don't know there seems to be uh is it like prb P4 LLC I that's who the certified mail was sent to and it looks like and was the is is RA wrote in law the registered agent is that what ra means registered agent yes sir okay so everything was served to the registered agent okay it was signed for we have a receipt I see it and but what I do see I mean I'm looking at it said the previous sale was in September the 5th of 2023 and the notice of violation was on August the 18th 2023 yeah uh the property was for a P R bp6 LLC is that the new owner or that that is the new owner uh registered agent uh Rondon law p LLC the new owner has been served you can go ahead and roll okay no other questions case number c-23 d285 find that the property is not in compliance U order a fine of $250 administrative cost of 250 and to request that they come into compliance by August the by August the 19th if not a $250 for day fine thereafter when you say coming to compliance I mean because if they have a driveway this does not meet the design standards they obviously can't get a driveway built in that time just a permit pull in a permit okay that would be coming into compliance got it all right compliance for us is really just getting the permanence because you've got six months right I'll second all in favor I I oppos motion passes 4 Z the next five cases are for the propert oops I'm sorry ready um Michael second next five cases are for the same property those are items 8.2 3 4 5 and six for the property located at 820 Northeast 111th Street first case number Cen 23- 315 Cen 23- 316 cn23 d317 c-23 d318 c-23 d319 these violations were issued to a previous owner um the officer has put an affidavit on the record saying that conveyance um um happened um during the process of us issuing these violations the new owner is aware she called and we spoke with her I was hoping she would be here today but I believe she's out of town um and I did make them aware of all these violations considering the circumstances it will be up to the board to either give them more time um or put orders of enforcement on when did the property change oh I'm sorry it's in the AFF but I should have so the property changed hands roughly 9 months ago well almost a year ago now almost a year ago now but I believe they live um in Washington Washington or some another state DC or Washington um I think it's DC I'm not sure looking for example things like the dumpster the botty I believe they've all been removed correct they have been removed that's correct that is that is correct it has been removed but they needed after they needed to get permits for them even after but if it's gone I at this point Absol everyone feel the otties and the dumpsters have been removed and it's a previous owner is the previous owner yeah I I I'm in agreement I'm just looking should we rule there a separate one for that or I just see everything put together there's two there's one there's a p party there's one the dumpster [Music] P the dumpster the Porta poty so why we rule on those two because that would be like 8.4 8.5 if we having those go one of the once we can go ahead and disuss or we think we might want to okay you want to do 8.2 first the construction fence now this property is now in compliance the propert for which uh the 820 for the the whole property they haven't done any work on the property since they bought the proper since they bought it but there's a construction fence around it is no no constru no construction fence around the property uh it's just completely I guess whatever work that was being done there's no sign of work being done for the past few months has been know it's been idle so can we but can we look at 8.2 I just want on this one right here because I'm looking at construction fence requirement so it's still is it requires a construction fence or I mean is it what type of condition is it in um it's not in good condition I I the neighborhood I've seen it it's not in good condition at all and is it I saw to the community it is that's the one I think that bothers me I find that most concerning because it is obviously abandoned and too many boarded up things that would be easy for people to un board well I'm just looking at trying to determine whether it requires a construction fence or not or we or it should be cited for you know painting and all that and whatever else is there I think if there's no ongoing construction or there's no open construction it's construction material that that particular property is almost similar to the last one when you just heard it it's really terrible um damage fence open uh overgrown grass your opinion luchano I would suggest they put a fence around it great I know that I've seen it the the only thing I'm going after not after is the last one there was a plan to demolish the house this one I doesn't there are no we don't know if there's a plan to demolish the house the house if they aren't demolishing it does it require a construction fence or it just needs to have it cited for painting um material the owner hasn't um hasn't stated anything but even if it's undergoing massive renovation construction it doesn't have to be a tear down to require a fence yes there are various openings doors that are half boarded windows that are half boarded which it which it looks like it has those things you know everything is half the other thing too is I thought there was some representation that that was sold recently but I'm looking at the sales information it doesn't look like it has 2014 is the last time that I see any conveyance is that inaccurate um I mean was did somebody say something that was sold it was sold um this company bought this property I believe a year ago but it's not it's not in the it's not in the county of praiser yeah oh yeah I did look at the transfer about a year ago that would be July 6 2023 July 6 2023 so it's exactly a year the summaries are different in some of them like I the summary I have the last one is 14 the other one of the other violations has got the 23 see reason I'm just m i mean asking questions about the construction fence because I am looking at a picture of from 71 of 2024 what I see as a deteriorated fence existing wooden fence I don't see construction going on so I just don't know that's why I'm asking correct others I'm not familiar with the property I'm just looking at the uh packages that are presented and on one package but it's dated from a year ago August 15 2023 and I do see where it appears some work was done that uh fresh lumber on it but I don't know if that was remedied and yeah still looks like that today no the the the site look ask you again luchano and and Rafa do you both believe that in the current condition of this property a construction fence is warranted is it required yes a construction fence is warranted the doors are are boarded up the windows are boarded up the fences are falling apart also on the roof it's covered with uh I guess a tarp or plastic material so there there is going to be some major work being done on that property sometime in the near future would anyone like to make a motion on this one I will in case number c-23 d315 a violation has occurred assess the $250 fine $250 admin fee give the property owner until August 19th to apply for and install a construction fence or else a $250 daily fine I'll second the motion all in favor I O opposed motion passes 4 Z the next one is 83 am I correct corre dumpster dumpster and portable toilet portable toilet and it's been removed that's correct that's correct I'd like to make a motion to dismiss on case number c-23 d316 second all in favor I opposed motion passed to score zero the next case is a dumpster um on case number c-23 d317 i' make motion to dismiss second rol good all in favor I I opposed motion passes 4 oh I'm Sor I'm in favor motion passes 4 zero the next case made the motion and made the motion R second R next case um 23- 318 is a portable toilet I'll make a motion for was 8. five yes 8.5 which is uh where is it where's the number uh 23- Cen 23- 318 is that the case number to dismiss the portable toilet violation I'll second all in favor I I oppos motion passes for zero --------- they thought I pulled a permit but I I tried reaching code twice um phone rings but no one picks up today I was lucky enough to meet the code officer but by the time we started speaking the meeting already started so I I didn't want to interrupt uh he took my information and you know I look forward to to working with it but I I just didn't have you know I I didn't have enough information um and problem I'm having is Sir violation was given in September of last year even if it can occasionally be a struggle getting through to someone at Village Hall we're talking two months short of year and nothing was done I can show you this picture sir well I think what he said was done was that that he pressure cleaned it I I person pressure clean it but apparently you could see here that doesn't help all these chip marks right when was that picture when was that picture taken May picture was taken in May okay so I I I don't know when I I corrected violation um I did I did power wash it um from the street you are not seeing that angle at all you need to get out of your car and get onto the property to see to to see that angle because it's really what happens is the rain comes off the roof and then and you know there's just the grass and there's mud there and it just splashes up against sir I'm looking at chick paint I'm not looking at Mud the following picture it's mud crawling up the walls up to the window to the little um border at the window I this is as of May also so I'm not sure when you if you press C in September I I I don't I don't think I pressure clean it in September I don't know when I did I'm I'm not saying I did it before afterwards I I don't have access to to what you're looking at so it doesn't this is today or in a couple last coule days that's that's something else the shut these two were just a couple days ago okay so I know I understand what the I understand the violation so I mean I know you came in you said that you didn't really have any an understanding what was going on you thought you pressure clean you did a good job didn't hear anything thought everything was fine then you got the notice to appear right that kind of sums it up correct because I I I fixed what I thought you know was the violation um I reached out there's no response I figure you know if if I'm not getting any fines or there's no further communication it's kind of closes on its own I don't know what the proper process here is um no no no that's I was just looking at the notice of violation and it specifically says exterior law needs to be painted right addition to the violation of the code it just said it directs you but it specifically States exterior walls need to be painted corrective action is to paint the exterior wall so pretty clear that no that's not pretty clear that's not clear at all it's a code section the exterior wall it says description and then it says code section no it says corrective action right exterior wall where do you see that on the notice of violation sir he's looking at the notice to appear That's the notti this is another this is another correspondence from September of last year I don't have this is this the notice of violation is what gives you the information of what needs to happen that's when you said that you reive you vaguely remembered something and then about that then you went into pressure clean that's what that probably was that was September of last that's that's the misunderstanding right um yeah because I'm looking at this and I I I don't have something from not violation is the starting point for what you need to do I I am learning here do we have a motion if no I'm sorry if there's no question let let me just finish by saying I I I live in the community I'm part of the community I live next door to it I'm it's it's not like I'm I'm looking to you know just have some nuisance next door to me um I I care about my house I care about my house next door I'm raising a family here so I'm looking to ideally correct the situation um I just asked that I'm leaving I'm leaving tomorrow afternoon not coming back to August 1 give me 30 days I'll pull you know a permit but there's still a violation that did exist so you know whether not we give X number of time to correct it the violation happened and that doesn't change that so if there's a violation it are you saying then there's a penalty yes sir okay what is it ready for a motion well I I don't know yet because because I mean what he's saying here is that he wants to you know he wants to apply for a a permit so give you opportunity but I mean a violation I'll make a motion if you don't mindead this might answer your question okay case number c-23 d339 that a violation has occurred give the property owner until um August the you said you'll be back I come back on the 1 so if you give me a couple until August the 19th uh to have a permit full if not the $250 a day on thereafter administra so it's $250 um fine and a $250 administrative P the permit by August the 19th or A4 assess start assessing a fine of $250 per day therea August 20 I'll second all in favor I I opposed motion passes 4 Z all right thank you in August 19th yes next item is 8.9 for 871 Northeast 117th Street this is for case number c-24 d278 L mcra we asking for an order of enforcement for a black color Infiniti G37S passenger um sedan that was left that's on the property still with the FL tire and no tag good afternoon everyone would give give the board a chance then you'll have absolutely promise discussion questions no says still on the property still with the flat tire still with the expired tag yes all right sir if you would identify yourself and your relationship to the property absolutely good uh good evening everyone so my name is George McGrath um the son of Lux M grath the owner of the property um the owner is deceased unfortunately um So currently right now I'm in the process of going through probate uh both of my parents uh passed away recently um I'm doing the entire State handling the entire state by myself um under I think it's chapter 7 through2 of the intestate process as they pass without a will or a trust I'm I'm an attorney I don't do a hate law though but one of my good friends who um and I I just started a law firm too so that's that's been rough but one of my good friends I'm bringing on to my firm actually does estate law work we're currently in the process of doing the the probate itself getting the homestead transfer to me and putting all of the real and personal property under my name um at the same time though wanted to say when I got the notice of violation which wasn't too long ago I think it was a month or two ago um I immediately have him looking into how I can legally dispose of this um whether I need to wait till the probate process is over or if I could do it now um at the same time to be proactive I've reached out to some people who are interested in buying the vehicle and I've reached out to some you know public works to see if I can junk it somewhere too because I I understand it's a ni store I just want to do everything the right way and was this titled in your parents name I'm not even sure and I'm kind of in I was a kid when and they got me the car it was quite a long time ago um this is your old car it's my old car uh from high school early college days I've been driving a car about myself a while ago but kind of in a catch 22 now because until the perb process ends no one's allowed to answer my questions about anything so that's just been kind of the issue with it um once I get the the probate process through should be in 30 to 60 days um maybe less than and um I can reach out to people and see hey is this is this my name is this not has have you filed in Probate already um well right now we're following a motion to determine Homestead um that would immediately pass through on the house itself um my friend uh Michael Gomez Al also another attorney he's actually doing case law and statute research um to determine if I need to put that under probate at all in the first place well I mean as far as having a probate file number in in Miami day County do you have that right now no not yet um we will be doing that immediately okay and and you this vehicle do you know whose vehical whose name it was titled in you can do that online if you know with the pin number oh you know it's been it's been a hectic period yeah honestly trying to do all of it by myself has been one thing after another the second I got this violation I'm I'm looking into everything now and the best way to get this done I think I can have a remedy if I could make a motion well let's do cut everything short and remedy some things do on c-24 d278 that a violation has occurred to give the uh I guess to direct the property owner designate to uh remove or to cover because okay I believe a proper cover will satisfy that that's amazing perfect what's two weeks from yeah exactly that works uh could you have it done by um August the 1 Yeah by August the 1 if not $250 thank you guys so much just have one question code is that parked on the grass and not on an approved service it's not that's a driveway it's a concrete driveway okay I was going to have to ask move yeah no no there's a concrete driveway there it's just covering up do we do we have a second on Dale's motion a second all in favor thank you so much quick question actually I heard a lot of talk about the uh motion passes four zero go right ahead thank you so much had um heard a lot of talk about the drainage and everything um is that something like I could apply for because I made a joke when it's storm the other day that my house looked like it was on a lake front property but the front and the back it was like a few feet of of water actually it was if I got out it would have been above my knees yeah and um don't not sure what to do but happy to uh help in any way I can would like to know how to remedy that and it seems it was just me and my neighbor to my left's houses their houses seem to be fun so I think there might be some kind of a dip or something I'm not sure we're right on my neighbors aren't in the corner I'm right next to the corner so maybe there was something with that yes I would direct you to our public works department they will give you information on how these drainage systems are running in the village we don't know um it will take like three years I believe for them to finish no worries it started and they hold it because of money but um yeah you can reach out to them they they'll have information they're doing all right thank you guys so much thank you next case is 8.10 and it's for case number one one I'm sorry address 11331 Northeast 11th Place this is case number c-24 d275 property owner is 11331 Northeast 11th PL Place LLC through their registered agent Maris estan we are asking we were going to ask for um order of enforcement but they have applied for a permit and town to the record w d ws-24 D40 uh we'll ask for a continuance so that they can go through the permitting process make a motion to on case number c-24 d275 to continue till August hearing I'll second all in favor I motion pass is 4 Z the next case is item number 8.11 for case for address 11 1335 Northeast 11th Place the case number is Cen 24276 eido Gonzalez this is for a driveway there's no permit in the system violation was issued in April and we haven't heard from Mr Gonzalez have we no yes no notice violation stat the 30th November ail April the 30th so wait what's wrong with the driveway doesn't because all those boards that are there or is it the surface material or both it's a non-conforming driveway and it looks like it's 50% you know all the CRA and that these are only those little um uh stops yeah that that part I get but uh but what about the the surface of it might be a better picture looks nonconforming and that I can't tell if this is gravel or if it was pavement it looks like at some point if you look at was asphalt at some might have been asph up yeah Ro so okay yeah this is one of those that would definitely need to go to pnz for advice on how they can bring this um uh driveway into um your standards make if I may make a motion on case number c-24 d276 that the property is not the driveway is not in compliance um assess a fine of $250 administrative fee of $250 to come of have come into compliance by having a permit pulled by August the 19th if not uh $250 per day F I'll second all in favor I opposed motion passes 4 Z three cases 8.2 12 8.13 and 8.14 for the address 11615 Griffin bolad case numbers for the [Music] record c-24 d134 c-24 d426 c-24 d425 these violations are now in compliance finds in the amount of $88,000 have been paid okay can I motion make a motion to uh close all places listed I'll second all in favor I I I oos motion passes score [Music] zero the next item and I believe the last case is 8.15 address 1210 noreast 121st Street this is for case number c-2 4- 397 Oriana Estephanie aalo we asking for an order of enforcement the violation is um and lawful leing sa leasing or renting for the purpose of tency without first obtaining a permit um Miss Oriana aalo did reach out to us this afternoon saying that she's in compliance however we went to the website where the advertisement um was first found and the advertisement was still there she's still running no license she's still advertising to rent longterm without a license and what did she tell you when you contacted her she sent an email saying it's off market now we went into the system after he sent the email and we saw the advertisement as you can see and I noticed that she's not here right she's not here okay I also notic if she it appears it's the whole property being advertised for rental and it's a homesteaded property I don't know this this board doesn't have anything to do with that I'm just letting it acknowledging that it's a homesteaded property that's being rented and if it's six months or more for this was for long term correct it's a duplex so she lives on one side of the property she lives on she lives on one side of the property and that even at that when you live on one side you can't Homestead the whole thing because part of it is being rented but at any rate you know and and I have to say having driven by this property she takes absolutely beautiful car it looks nice she has refurbished it going back just a few years it's always impeccably kept I was like get your promise I mean you're doing every everything else so well I mean because you're so used to that not always being the case and this is a beautifully maintained property yes great so if there's no other questions may I make a a motion absolutely c239 that a violation occurred ass a fine of $250 administrative B of $250 comply by August the 1st if not a 200 per day F all second all in favor I iOS motion carries 40 those were all the cases we brought before the board today you have to get to them good job okay did everybody have a chance to read June's meeting minutes um I was a president oh I read over them uh I just caught a couple of things on item 73 it says Judy hilberg made a motion to close the case you close a case if there actually was one but we dismissed this because it didn't meet the 50% deterioration so I would suggest we change cloes to dismiss great and yes I'm being picky but since I was the one who said something going under discussion chairperson Janie Anderson made a suggestion to avoid making additions actually I think I sort of did a little more than made a suggestion I urged that we not make additions to the agenda unless there are serious legal type issues ETC that we have no other choice because to add things and unless it is a serious legal issue I watched the May meeting and I saw how you guys were scrambling to try to ingest everything which is given to you and it had to end up being tabled so that's why I think I did kind of more than suggest so can we urged would work urged okay urged not to make addition yeah any other questions discussion if I could just reiterate if no one Minds when we have situations like some of the ones we heard tonight where we've heard it for two or three meetings and kept it push forward if we could have the notice of enforcement from all the meetings that move forward so we wouldn't have egg on our face not remembering which we didn't that there were already fines out there and and some of the pictures like or three cases and the Really meaty pictures would be with one case but we kind of needed them with the other with both of them so understood I know you guys have every right to try to call down and not overdo it because that takes time with back up but those things would be kind of important oh absolutely I can make a suggestion it may just help just to put the pictures with if their multiple cases with the first case for reference and it applies to all of them then we have it I like and in one package if that works for you guys I think that makes great sense yeah too okay noted motion to adjourn is there a motion thank you motion to approve uh the June minutes with those two changes is that I'll make a motion to accept all in favor I I motion passed is 4 motion was made by J Janie second is Michael yes yes thank you and now a motion to adjourn second all in favor I motion passes for is hero thank you everybody well I am sorry you sit through that thing I watch