##VIDEO ID:6pAD3cMCK9c## let's go good morning commission good morning city manager uh my name is Dan samarat uh 153153 zero griffy Boulevard um U Madame clerk I sent you um a letter did I drop off a letter uh can I have permission to read the letter instead of you reading no I'm asking you it's okay okay uh good afternoon Commissioners um this is in reference of the November 5th 2004 20 24 election that's coming up this was the letter I'm going to read word for word that I sent to the clerk uh to the Village clerk for the upcoming November 5th election there are three open seats for the commission as of the closing date August 24th there were only three candidates that qualified therefore eliminating necessary to have another election November 4 therefore saving a village and the residents $122,000 according to our Charter we most must hold another election to determine which two with the highest votes get fouryear term each and a third gets two in turn we would have to spend the $122,000 to have this election with this in mind I will clearly conceed and accept a two-year term eliminating the need of the residents in Village to hold another election at the cost of $122,000 that would have to be spent to determine the length of service of each commissioner sign dance America so that's the proposal that I'm making that I am willing to take the two-year term and the other two individuals will get the four-year term and I believe that should be reasonable hopefully the attorney would agree with that would save the village $112,000 thank you thanks D um go ahead Janie Anderson one 905 Northeast 11th Place really glad to see John here tonight it would have been great to have department heads here throughout the process when you were dealing with their departments because I would think you being able to ask questions and hear answers directly from the people who hopefully crafted these budgets but certainly have to make them work would have been more meaningful and I'm thinking like tonight I would have liked to see Dorene here because one of the things I'm interested in hearing and I'm sure you are too because it's a brand new line item is the budget in the code budget for an attorney to be at all of our meetings now just a quick kind of recap of my thoughts on this when we have a situation like we did several months ago that yes this was a property owner that had multiple violations the fines had accumulated they had an attorney come to pitch their case to have it dismissed on a technicality would it have been much better if our attorney had been there absolutely but we don't make Ras decisions we did table it to the following month we did get the information we need and there may be other situations where the code staff looks at some of these cases and says you know we need more input for this and we would need the attorney there but they're going to know that in advance because those cases and those notices to appear have got to be posted I believe it's 10 days prior which would seem to give time to reach out to the attorney ask that he be able to zoom in rather than taking his time and paying him to sit two to three hours in a meeting where he may never be called upon now if the situa if the um feeling is well we may avoid lawsuits by having the attorney there my question would be when was the last time the village was sued on a code issue what was the issue and what was the result and what do other cities do we've got to take into consideration other cities have commercial which not only are bound to be far more complex than anything we see was strictly residential but they're pretty much guaranteed to be at the table with their attorney so again it would have just been great to hear her input on all of this thanks thanks Janie any others in the Log Cabin before we all right good evening my name is Danielle wolf I live at 1120 Northeast 115th Street and I'm the current chair of the parks and Parkways advisory committee and I'm here on their behalf and for my own personal of views as a resident unfortunately we have a really uh comprehensive document that we'll share with you as soon as my cohort uh arrives so you can see it but we're here to request funds uh which is what this is all about so if you look out our beautiful door across 7th there's this beautiful large grassy area which currently holds a single sign and two small sections of butterfly plants now we live in a beautiful beautiful community and there's so much green space and I'll speak for myself I think it's underutilized and just like anything it takes money to make those spaces usable for the community so we are asking for a lot of money but a very comprehensive reason why we want to do a restoration project to really create a space that is community focused great for the environment and a place for the community to gather have events and really just a place to embrace the local Greenery not doing really good job of here of explaining what we want but there are a few reason why why this is really important there's an ecological impact so thinking about the native keystone species throughout the community we can really highlight that area to be able to bring in Native species we um know that there's environmental impacts by bringing in Native species we'll see more birds more butterflies all of the critters that we know and love there's a lot of help benefits there's lots of construction going on there's lots of things it'll obviously increase the uh air quality and also there's a lot of connections between mental health and green spaces so that's something to consider and not only that it can be a community Gathering space we have the park obviously but this could be another opportunity to be able to bring people together in a green space now the vision for this is really robust it is a huge um undertaking but we envision there to be walking past benches there's even a possibility of adding um water fountains a space for dogs a space for humans to get water um and really just Envision this as a place to gather and there's ways to involve the community in this host Community engagement plans all sorts of things so I will share with you the documents as soon as they arrive so you can see the plan and really outline the funds that we're requesting and I want a big gasp when I say how much money this is because it is a huge cost of $50,000 that we're requesting to be allocated towards this plants alone we would need over 2,000 plants to fill this space it is massive and that would cost at least $115,000 and when you consider the walking path the benches and everything else the demolition of making sure that the space is prepared for the planting it is a lot of money but is a long-term investment not only in the green space but into the community the mental health of the community and um the longevity of the Green Space so thank you and when we get the documents we will share so you can see the breakdown of cost thank you so much can I ask a question are you planning to stay for the rest of the meeting it might be long so we can ask you some questions yes as long as it is not 10 p.m. I will stay for a little bit of course yes thank you okay let's go ahead and uh head to zoom for any public comment we have there any hands nothing on Zoom okay all right so having completed our public comment let's get right back into our our budget items hey Jonathan it's Mack how are you doing well Mac how are you I'm doing well thank you sorry guys I could not be there I'm uh traveling on business but I'm happy to be here by Zoom so um I'll be taking a little bit of a backseat because it's awkward to be the one sort of voicing in but I wanted to say something up front before you start jumping in uh to where we left off last meeting I believe it was the last hearing uh Veronica you brought to us our request to refund the I'm going to misstate the name of the organization the North America North Miami seniors Foundation that we used to fund and you asked us to fund it again and we put money back in there very coincidentally I was contacted by one of the board members this week who was an old friend of mine I wasn't aware she was even on the board and she was contacting me to let me be aware of that they just received some grant money that has to be spent by the end of the year and they wanted to make sure that bisc Park seniors even though we aren't a current um we don't currently fund them in any way in this current fiscal year she wanted to make sure that our seniors were invited to this so she sent me some information their current brochure and specifically the the food drive that is going on now it's providing food to seniors in in need um and I sent that to Pamela this afternoon both documents and asked her to forward them to you after I told you guys about it tonight I did tell her that um that at Veronica's Quest we had put money back in the budget this year that it's not finalized yet but that we had put it in our first draft of the budget and she was very happy to hear that so I didn't promise her anything other than let her know kind of where we stood on that Veronica her name is Sarah mcdevit and I think she might be reaching out to you she thinks she knows you through Izzy um and I think she has a daughter her age and so if Sarah contacts you that what that's what that's about but I did ask Pamela to send that information and she's asking us to spread the word on the money that they need to spend by the end of this calendar year and they want to make sure that our community is involved in that as well there can see me thank you so much yes there you are hey bro there we go so um and I can see you and you can see me I appreciate that yes um so I had further conversations with them I actually requested that they send a letter of sort of detailing the the services they provide and give you and share with you guys more information I have some and the draft but I'm happy to hear that that's coming as well so we can talk about that thank you so you one of the things they sent phoh is is their official brochure and it does list us as one of the or one of the communities that benefits from their service so it must not be completely up to date with current donors but at least we are listed there which is why she reached out so you'll get that from Pam here after the meeting awesome thank you you're welcome thank you John questions about um some of the comments that we had today had to do with the attorney he's not online is he uh he was he's he's up there we got him so we can bother him with whatever we need right Brad no you can't I'm just a spectator I was waiting for that um I was wondering so we had Mr Samaria come up with a point I don't know if this is sort of a discussion to have during budget Workshop or is it something to have during commission meeting uh I would personally say probably a commission meeting Dan because uh we've got a few other parts of the budget we have to work out we got a hearing coming up I think next week so I well if I may yeah I may I'm sorry to interrupt um you can't discuss that um as a collegial body to tonight it's hasn't been noticed this is just a workshop you you we can you can put it on as a discussion item um for the September 10th meeting and um we can discuss it um I have I do have some comments on it um just based on what your Charter and what your code of ordinances indicates but I don't think it's appropriate based on the fact that this is a workshop that it we discussed today I will say that in regards to the budget uh every year even though there's not an election every scheduled every calendar every fiscal year we always leave money in there in case we need it for a special election as we did this year when Ryan was elected to the commission so regardless of whether the attorney would advise us that we could do what Dan is Dan Samaria is suggesting I don't see any reason to remove that from the budget for fiscal 2025 because we always need that money there in case we need to hold a special election which we've done twice in the past six years that makes sense y okay it's not 12 Grand by the way I think it's more 15 or 16 and Ma just so you had the benefit of U Mr SM was just saying the intention wasn't to have us discuss it tonight just to bring it up I think so we'll put it on for discussion at the next one and we'll come back to it so Co thank you Dan we appreciate it um we'll we'll come back to it when we can notice it for discussion um okay so let's jump right back in um I know so the the larger categories that we had we we've been through commission we've been through admin we've been through police um did we just remind me because I was unfortunately not president I caught up with the manager uh longer ago than I'd like to admit were we in the middle of one of these when we broke where did we clean break finished it arks and wreck and we finished Administration we finished Administration yeah we have Administration for the Departments we haven't not touched code or Public Works yet yeah okay and then and building in a list of the other funds down at the bottom right all the funds we haven't touched okay and then we also have not ever discussed any anything that the commission would like to add to the budget that has never still been brought up any we all we're seeing is the manager's recommended budget we're not hearing anything here that the commission might be requesting so can I ask you Paul very quickly where where did we leave off with the amount of money that we were we removed from the I think we were working off the asks budget correct correct the ask budget had a little over $730,000 above a Balan budget the current running total that you've removed out of those out of that draft is $ 23431 Mr Mayor that's very specific U one more time I'm sorry say those numbers again please yeah I just wanted to hear one more time your the amount of money I'll go backwards the amount of money you've reduced from the draft asks budget is $234,300 okay from what was the overage no the approximation was around 730 but I don't remember my assistant had handed that to me right on time it was 77,78 we're still 484 in the wrong direction correct okay Brad what was it I you wanted to make a comment can I add one piece of information that we haven't really talked about it's vital to your you know our grasp of what you still want to add to the budget yeah please the capital Improvement fund is actually a big pot of money that is positive money that's adding to the $700,000 ask budget overage it's over 600,000 and and last year it was about the you know we we put 300,000 into it so this year so it's a lot of moving Parts but the point is the new money for 2025 will generate that 600,000 in this overdrawn budget this 7 you see what I'm saying so you're actually starting with about $120,000 overage and you've cut that down so you're balanced and you're actually in the black as a as a budget process goes but it's like Max said there's still lots of pieces to still put or there might be lots of pieces you put in but just keeping the big picture that if you wanted to do that uh you you have to plan out your CIP to know so probably that's the first budget you would recommend we start with uh I don't care it's the same to me yeah I'm saying it in terms of what the impact I don't know which one's well better idea yeah I don't know um yeah we also have a people here so you would decide but I um there that's a big chunk so the three we started we I'm sorry if I go back to the CIP budget just so that I understand that one 600,000 you said it's proposed for f FY 25 um that is a percentage purposely it's almost double to what we had originally yes the so what the accountant would do is say well let's assume you're going to spend everything and need it again okay so it's doubling B and you haven't spent it you're you're you've only spent about 230,000 of that 600 from last year all right got it so and that as you know that isn't it doesn't literally move from the 24 budget laterally into the 25 budget it falls into unassigned unspent money you dictate what you want to do with it at the end of the budget process when you elect your final budget or adopt your final budget and you can put pick money from any of the pots that you want to put it in so just so we have a firm number on that um you said it's about 230,000 that was already spent it was it was exactly 230,000 so I just want to know how much we're we're between now and the end of fiscal 24 what we're looking at in excess from CIP that is unspent Jonathan if I may it's 232 792 32792 yes year to date to 630 and Mr manager um out of the 600 from CIP from your prior or from I guess current fiscal are we expecting any more out of that budget before we get to end of September and if so what are we approximating we should be using approximately 205,000 additional dollars from the now CIP but those are projects that are that have begun this fiscal um whether or not they're going to finish this fiscal I couldn't tell you at this point we're counting them towards corre okay how much additional again I'm sorry 205 520 20 and then the only odd thing between the CIP and current funding is the uh roadway drainage Improvement projects Phase 1 B and two um those are included in the CIP but those are being funded with CIT monies so if I'm doing this correctly and I don't represent that I am um looks like we're going to use about 600 from CIP correct roughly how did you get to that added the amount that Ryan gave us and already already spent for CIP and added the manager additional 205 520 and that got us 438 312 if we take that away from our 600 it was 600 even correct that was budgeted 601 601 601 601 is for FY 2025 right that's what you're doing y just something else to keep in the in the top of your heads when we created the CIP um we assumed spend of 350 or fiscal 24 and then jump that up to 400 for fiscal 25 and then increased it by 10,000 for each subsequent fiscal year say that again in fiscal 24 we are planning on spending 350,000 on the CIP itself yeah fisal 25 we propose 400,000 so $50,000 increase okay and then each additional or each subsequent fiscal year we were adding $10,000 to that so 26 is 410 27 is 420 and so on okay okay um look I don't have any real uh oh well I'm sorry Brad let me come back to you you were going to say something did we did you do you happen to did you happen to maintain your train at thought I did um just a comment on your initial question as to where you left off um I believe also you were still um had some queries about the parks and recck budget if you remember the former chair of the parks Parks and Rec board had uh made an ask on behalf for the parks department and you wanted to hear from the uh Department director with regards to those asks I think was dealing with the jazz festival and the youth Music Fest for money allocated that was being transferred from the board's fund to the parks and rec fund and we had questions about yes how there was a credit card issue and money not being coded properly and we were waiting for clarification on all of that director Thornell is on Zoom tonight can answer those questions okay so why don't why don't we just start there then if if that's the I guess if that's the last item for Parks the parks and recck budget um why don't yeah why don't we just try and um put a bow on that one Isa oh there he is hey Isa how are you good how are you thanks for joining us no problem of course okay so if there was a pending if there was a question pending about those about the funds within the parks and rec budget um I would happy to open the floor to whomever wanted to ask them I can just give a quick summary uh one of the questions was the $10,000 bill for Springfest um director correct me if I'm wrong but we did confirm that the overage was due to the stage that was actually for uh JazzFest yeah correct so there was a about 8,000 um difference so Springfest only $2,052 was actually spent on Springfest um budgeted for 2500 there so I technically was under what I spent for Springfest this year um so yeah just a misappropriation of the stage for the jazz in the park was put under the Springfest so clarified that with funny so then Issa it's Mac I'm I'm on Zoom as well the you're saying that the the Springfest came in a couple of $ hundred under budget but then that means the jazz festival we're seeing jazz festival at uh jazz in the park was 5950 and you're saying that add $8,000 onto that for the stage so there's a there's a a credit card um payment of 8336 which I think is actually two different payments I need to get that that broken down but as I see it listed um we know that is the payment for the stage which is roughly uh 6,500 so they came in right about right at 11,000 of what they had budgeted for Jasmine Park um that there's a $300 difference there that I need to get some clarification on a $33,000 difference there that I need to get some clarification on but I think it is just the entire credit card statement um so I will get that broken down for you but they came in at at a little over what they budgeted um we were under budgeted for Springfest there was another payment that is um misappropriated for the winter Fest which is a a $1,300 payment um and just while I'm talking about it so I know I have some overtures in some of my special events this year I've gotten I always take pride in getting donations so uh Winterfest went over um by a little but I got a $1,000 donation there so technically I was over $163 at Winterfest um Halloween went over $214 another $1,000 donation towards that total um and what you don't see on there is National Night Out we got a $1,500 donation towards that we actually were under um spending by $228 so we're right in line with all of the special events um obviously inflation every year things are growing going up bounce houses and um with the high numbers that we've had at the special events lately anytime we have B bounce houses I have been um getting the companies to send staff to manage the bounce houses because our numbers have just been so high so we spent a little bit more money there um but yeah so the stage for jazz and the Fest was put on Springfest it kind of balances out the total for special events um is a couple of hundred over once you add in all the donations may I ask a a favor and and guys back me up if anyone else would benefit from this I'm hearing you and I believe that all this makes more sense and but what we're looking at doesn't um so we're going to see this again this object code 48 we're going to see it again with our new proposed budget that we approved that we've approved the last meeting and we'll have another conversation tonight can this page get cleaned up considerably for us please because it's still very I'm hearing you and making notes and it's still very confusing because I still can't see what's what on here I I believe what you're telling us but I'd like to see it in front of me because there's a bunch of extra stuff on here that didn't happen and things are duplicated and it's all still very a messy thing to look at and for our next time we look at this when we will be voting to approve it I just want to know what I'm voting to approve so if we could see that cleaned up that would be very helpful and by the way thank you for coming tonight I like having department chair department managers here it makes a huge difference otherwise we ask questions and no one knows the answer and last meeting I was like where's Isa he would know the answer to these things so I'm glad you're here other thing Isa and while I'm talking and then because I'm not there and it's awkward for me to talk so I'm just going to try to say everything at one time um we at the last meeting the Arts board attended and the former chair Nicole Payne was there and she has left the board and she wants to she wants the jazz festival to become a village event rather than a board event and she she can't exactly like take it with her and but she was speaking on your behalf almost saying that you want to do this I would like to hear you talk to us about uh the jazz festival because if it's going to be a village as of right now it's no longer in the arts and culture board budget that we have we did not include that I would like to hear from you do you want it do you think it's something the village should get behind and and if it is going to be your item are you prepared to take this on on behalf of the village uh and will you need help from boards or other people outside where do you stand on that I want to hear the department manager say yes he wants this and much it's going to cost uh so I definitely am up to continue it I think it has been a great addition to our special events um it's been super well attended um I've heard nothing but Ray reviews I've worked worked very well with the boards and helping them put on these events um obviously I was not vital in the orchestration of this event that was an arts and culture board they get all the credit um I assist where they ask U my staff we're always there to provide all the assistance we can um so I don't want to lose the event obviously I think it again is a great addition to our special events um Nicole I know as kind of spearheaded that event so um obviously I would love to still be able to get her insight and work with her if it if we're going to continue it and the the arts and culture board doesn't think that they can man it um themselves I don't know if if that's the issue there or if we just want to put it into parks and wreck and I can work with that board to assist as well and I mean Nicole is still a resident and still has great Insight in regards to um the music and the artist that is what she does um as a career so I'm fine with taking it on I don't want to see it go I think it it's been a great addition um a nice mix uh to the other Signature Events that we already have I think we can continue to grow it so I'm I'm fine with taking the lead on it if that's what means keeping it okay so when you say take the lead on it as of right now the arts and culture board is not asking to be involved in it anymore at all so when you say take the lead on it you mean you're going to own it it's going to be in your budget and it'll be your staff's responsibility and your responsibility so you're ready to do that uh it definitely with I have some research when that board is in the new year so I we have time to put it together definitely with on her to to assist um this first year so we can keep the ball rolling I don't want it to lose any of its luster um and then I know I will actually though take that shoulder that blame if it falls short from your past though exactly that's why I want to hear from you that you not only are willing to do it but you enthusiastically take it on and um we and one of you guys please correct me I think uh Ryan you were taking notes last time while Jonathan was out we decreased that line item to $112,000 so I think what we've approved at the last conversation was putting it in your department as your responsibility with a with a budget of $122,000 if we decide to keep that there tonight I'm hoping that at the first hearing when we again would be voting on this you would be able to come to us and and and say yes that number Works you've had time to do your research and figure it out because those were Nicole's numbers and I and now it's your responsibility so I want I would like to hear you say you can do it and want to do it which you just did and that the budget is appropriate okay I can do that did I get that number correct you guys that were there last time I think it was ver and Ryan Yes Mac for my notes 12 was what we we adjusted it to okay what was the line item for that was adjusted to 12 49409 the J Festival okay well it's also under 49 413 under yeah but yeah exactly so this whole thing needs to get cleaned up because that's this is a very confusing page um so for the next time that when I vote on it I'd like it to less confusing please and thank you Isa for uh offering to uh to accept the role of that of that uh of that event Isa I have a couple questions yeah of course so um for me I think I had the same situation in terms of reading the document that we currently have it's very messy how things are spread around my biggest concern always comes from from what we sort of adopted versus what we' spend and so looking at the way it's been presented and it was presented for us um the Spring Fest um so far you know it's over spend by $10,000 where the proposed budget or the adopted was 2500 so again to point number one of reorganize in this sheet the proposed monies need to match what the expectation is I think at this point you're very clear in terms of what this events um take in terms of budget staff hours help needed and including donations which I didn't know were already considered as part of your spend I don't even know if they should be here to be honest with you that's a question no they're not but oh sorry just to clarify they're not considered part of the the spin so the donations cover the overage um so uh I'm trying to give you a good example the um so when you say cover the over overage so that that's a question that stand because right now I see it so what I'm reading so you understand is on the line on the page 14 of the parks and rec budget where you have the breakdown out events I'm going to go for the example of 49401 Halloween where you have 5,582 and your uh adopted budget was $3,000 corre um so for me I want to make sure that when we clean up this sheet what's proposed for 2025 is as close as to where you're going to spend but it can never be over um it should never be over and this is how I see it as a budget it's just put in there and approv for a certain amount of money to be spent so if you do think that you might go around the 6,000 next year I would put six 6,000 otherwise this is sort of the the conversation that went on you know we're moving $500 from here 2,000 there we're really being that um sort of minute right we're going to the little specifics of every budget just to see how we move money around so it is important to know if you do have 6,000 and you're going to need 6,000 not to have proposed three so that's from my perspective I think what I was confused besides what's being presented and how it's being presented is um sort of what's your what's your based on your experience what is the need how much money is it that it's needed and there was a lot of conversations that we end up with a placeholder raising the amounts that's being uh proposed just because the actuals are higher so and right so it this is the opportunity to go back and look into that um and agree or not or change whatever number should be but as I see it this is the the job that we're doing I mean this is the reason of this Workshop is that we should not go over any of these budgets unless there is like a clear explanation as to why um especially for you know for an item like 49404 Springfest of $10,000 over you know proposed was 2500 that's a red flag and and then when we go into the details you know the credit card I think that's where we got a little confused as to how is this being also recorded okay no I I I'll work with with uh Finance to to get this cleaned up just to make sure we get things put in the um in the right areas there are a couple things there and then I I need to work with Paul as well to so the again for the example of Halloween it's actually um it it was 4214 38 spent on that event there's 3,000 budgeted but I knew I had a $1,000 donation which the donation just go into general fund at the end of the day um but it is recorded as a donation towards that event so at the end of the day that event yes it's spent 4214 but ,000 of that is covered so technically I was over $214 in that of so I can tighten up those things there what's just not shown is the donations that we have towards those event that the companies are donating money to go towards that event so they not have to just spend that money obviously towards that event but because the donation money just goes into general fund have to kind of figure out how we can show that so the overages don't look as bad and it and it get you see that offset I think that's the point is just to see how you track that money too because and again this is part of your estimation you know estimates your percent but if you think you're going to spend five and you you know get it you know you have a thousand extra on donations every year then right there you can just put the six right or because donations don't get recorded here you just reflect the five however you normally do it um that's for you and and the manager and both to sort of track down but as as a way for us to approve it at least for me it is a red flag when I see approve a certain amount and then triple uh in terms of spend uh otherwise obviously the fit definitely of course I think the problem with the with adding in just adding in the donations is they're not guaranteed so I I would we can I guess I find a way to just make sure we are those funds are spent directly and then it doesn't show in the budget as a Overture um that's something I have to work with Paul to figure out how to do that yeah or or if you know if you know that including donations you spend six then just um you know forast for six and and you you'll be able to cover whatever you need donations come in then they go into Reserve at the end of of the year um and then we can decide I guess how how we spend that I'm not sure again that's something for you to work with them but that was my number one point the other one regarding um the J uh Fest I think we all agree we love this events happening um there is also you know again this goes to your budget so there is a process as to procurement to follow through um and you know not just including anyco in and contemplating her experience but something that that uh that would require for you to take on sort of more than chz um Le with her um so I I also wanted to make sure that that you're aware that's in your budget that's kind of for you to make it happen and then you still agree uh what was sort of forecast that we had $112,000 for that absolutely it also concerns me a little bit if I'm being completely honest leaning on a resident and not I'm not talking about Nicole directly but any Resident to help with something is such a that's such a significant part of your budget and significant event because people things happen and people move you know and people aren't available people have another kid you know lots of things happen and really ultimately that's why I wanted to hear you say you can handle this Issa because it is ultimately your responsibility at the end of the day and if a resident isn't able to help you're still the one that has to pull it off so oh no I mean if again if we decide to put that in the Parks and reg budget then I take complete own up on of it and moving forward obviously just leaning on just because she's been vital and putting in on the last cou exctly and she she it was her event so I have a question for Paul about this because I don't recall in previous uh years Issa you mentioning that there was uh donation Revenue associated with specific events so if I heard that in previous years I forgot it so my brain is right now feels like it Hur it for the first time but then there's also Revenue like at JazzFest you will also make money from correct me if I'm wrong from food V vendors there are food trucks there do you make money from these things so my question is how are all these various revenues recognized for these events is there a p&l for each event when it's done where you can where we can see everything associated with the event because I'm I'm guessing you do make money from some of those vendors correct uh I can only speak for my events I can't speak for board events um in in the past from my events uh we might mine would be submitted as as Revenue um and then lined item where whether is have a concession line item for Revenue um or a donation line item for Revenue I submit those uh through uh my normal Revenue submission processes um I don't um usually see here I mean can't you don't want to anticipate Revenue especially donations right until oh no exactly and that's the other thing I don't want to put uh yeah next year say hey we don't have it next year and then we budgeted we've budgeted for that and then you know that's why I said I need to work with Paul to see how we can kind of um streamline that but I would just like to see that then for the following year like you're telling us that now some of these events had donations but we're not seeing that in the history back to vero's point so looking ahead to next year it would be great to all of that in there while you can't budget for it you can report back what did happen and when we see that happening year after year after year at least we know in our minds it's likely to happen this is how what made it all work and then Vero is not seeing numbers that are so out of whack and we're reminded yeah but there was Revenue in the amount of $2,200 from donations that helped offset that because it does look wacky when you look at some of these things it's like oh my God we're just kind of eating it on these things I know there's some mistakes on here that are going to get corrected so to speak for you Vera but I think that's some of what we're seeing on here that makes it difficult we spend so much time on this one single page every year you know yeah so absolutely and I think clarifying that helps and then the other question I have for PO is so donations if someone comes and says I want to donate money to the rec center for the Halloween event does it have to be spent for the Halloween event it have to be spent uh the reason I'm asking is because is is in my perspective if you think Halloween is going to take five grand and you get a donation of two I would expect your forecast to be three and I know it puts a lot of pressure onto what we would expect for donations 2,000 right um because that may not happen but that's part of knowing that we count with that budget for other things as well not necessarily maybe Halloween instead of being $6,000 I mean this year was big it was one of the points I brought up um on the last Workshop it was maybe too big um maybe we keep it smaller simpler because that's the money we allocate for the event and if you have 2,000 extra thousand we can support another board we can you know there's boards here requesting more money that we can move around so I'm wondering what how is it uh you know are we able to donations kind of put it in a general fund and that we able to use for other things or no actually Mr attorney yes so I can probably answer that question so um commissioner if you recall you all adopted a policy for donations um a little while back um so there there are two types of donations um don't donors are able to make a donation for a specific purpose and Circumstance where somebody donates X number of dollars specifically for the jazz festival or going to a park res restoration or whatever it might be and if you accept those donations they're conditional and donors can certainly do that you would have to use those donations for the specific purpose for which they were donated there are also General donations where a person or an entity May donate certain amount of dollars to the village for the village to use its own at its own discretion um those are the types of donations or general donations where where you would be able to just do what you're talking about and if a project Commission to move forward with if somebody donated $5,000 in a general as a general donation then you would be able to use those as the commission sees fit but um there are those two types of donations and your your policy that you adopted recognizes those donations where um in the uh budget do this donations fit normally where go into a revenue just like off-duty police officer so in the W in the in the revenue lines probably under specific or a miscellaneous okay um I want to remind everybody that we actually did we were given direction to divide the events into two sheets one sheet with the artboard listings their costs as the village would pay and then any staff time would be in that worksheet and then the second worksheet would be Village only and we can what you what's really missing is what I call a a department schedule which is a a little accounting sheet that has all these projects on them or events I meant to say but the actual costs in line in real detail line items with a revenue against them with a final number at the end and then that's the number we use in our budgeting meetings really you don't get into this type of detail in a budget Workshop that should be in your hands and that's what's missing yeah and I think we touch based on that as well um Isa in terms of put in a calendar of all these events um there in distributed budgets make making sure that they don't step into each other's toes and and so um uh sort of when we do the tracking over the year on events you know if there's any available money to move around um it would be clear from where it it it's coming um I think those were my so are you clear on what's being asked as a total amount I don't know if we we have a total you have a total for this sheet for 48 special events propose FY 2025 or Ryan maybe you you have it don't have a total don't have a total I have like also itemized yeah I have it itemized as well when we bring back the ne the final draft of the budget after tonight's Workshop we all these changes will be reflected in the in the newe version can I ask some uh just that's what you want some really quick questions uh for clarity purposes um sorry I'm late to the to the party guys but um what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing is just really confusing me so I heard tonight that Issa said that he's spent $4,200 in the Halloween for the Halloween event over here we've had we have 5582 there a reason why there's a difference there he's subtracting the donation in in his so we're reporting the donation he is reporting it we or not we don't show Revenue in an expense laan so why why do we have it here as a in in in in this in the budget why do we have 5582 that's what was actually spent that was actually spent and then he's deducting the donation you're just seeing the we're just not seeing it exactly so that was my point um art as to better forecast knowing what you have in terms of revenues as well in this case donations okay so okay um and then my other question was these numbers outside the line here at the bottom this 500 5,000 1500 6,000 250 what what what is that what is what does that represent what numbers outside the line or on the right hand side at the bottom of this page yeah let me P back up yeah those are the events that were presented by the Arts board at the prior meet prior Year's budget process that's what they were asking for last year's budget correct we're still looking at the ask budget from the last meeting right we're not looking at an updated version of this correct it has not been updated so art I'm not seeing what you're looking at okay okay so the this is money that he's looking at the year to date line this was money that was asked for 500 sorry in years past right so there's really a little bit it was Rewritten the you know you can see the 3004 jazz festival those that were the budgeted lines the Earth hour and jazz in the park were not budgeted for but these were the line items that were spent that make sense yeah sort of and their their actual budget was the 11,800 you see how that is in the line 49 413 this is really the breakdown of how some of that was spent is another way to put it that's it doesn't it it's not clear art to I mean I I I get where you're coming from um we we spent um a good amount of time trying to understand this one that's that's why I was saying the next version hopefully this will all be cleaned out right we'll divide it into two worksheets Paul's going to split it up and and Issa is going to clean it up and I think the next time around we should look at something really much Neer yes okay um if we don't have any other questions about item 48 does that does that wrap up um this budget items we can move on to I guess code that's what I had okay all right so then why don't we just why don't we move on then why don't we uh why don't we get started with code code you by any chance someone talking I'm not hearing anything did you have that budget uh you do while we're while we're pulling up code and getting ready if you wouldn't mind what's being passed out Jonathan so um this is the yeah if you could that would be helpful since um um Max on on Zoom with us um oh is that the parks and Parkways yep that's the one it's the prop Danielle to email that to me while we're sitting here yep she just said she would so she's gonna she's GNA hop on that thank um but I just asked her before uh before we got too far into code if she had it for us if we could pass it if she could pass it out for us um okay so does everybody have code up are we ready okay so um look I'll go ahead and I'll just open it to anybody that wants to get us started there's uh obviously a couple things on here that we need to talk about so um floor is open um so I think Chris if you can guide us to um proposed right now is 362 if I'm reading it right Paul there is an increment of 483 per. I'm looking at the summary on an increase from from prior budget I that's an error correct that's an error yeah they eror look at is 30,000 okay 8,609 that's less than 10% ignore the percentage got it so should we want do the same thing we did last time go Page by page then yeah if anybody wants to just start us on any one particular item let's just get started so in terms of salaries on um page uh I'm going to go by code name 12 regular salaries um you're proposing an increment of how much so was the 6% 6% 5% change yeah one so it's a 6% um okay um and so the way you're structuring the the total amount in terms of budget was 130 adopted and then proposed 233 that's consider the new structure you have can you just maybe give us a summary Chris yeah I'm confused by this about who we have in this department and why there are so many people here that I'm not sure who they are Co compliant supervisor 70,000 24 we're proposing 7412 that's for supervisor nibs co- compliance officer these lines are jumbled $660,000 we're requesting 63 608 and that is for officer Gutierrez the next line down shouldn't say code compliance officer it should say code Clerk and that would be for uh Vanessa at 47690 and then Thomas this position was the one that we had created over the course of the last fiscal um she bounces back and forth between code and um planning zoning yeah okay and that was the one you we talked about in the administration budget this one no she's her position was funded with the savings from in oh I I remember what you're saying yeah there was that extra position in administration that didn't exist there yep that's what we talk you kind of mentioned that on the last um budget correct that was the move that we did from the administration budget correct to support your proposal on the structure for code okay so overall um I guess what I'm trying to seek is we can't compare apples to apples since we have a new structure is what is the increase in um salary for each one of the positions 6% it's clear for the supervisor and then for the other three yeah the actual increase in salaries is 6% across the board where is the code manager in this code manager is Services provided Professional Services provided by cap but I thought last year we still showed it in here because that has not been it's to my understanding it's being provided by cap but that was not a permanent change that the village had made it was it was being provided by cap because we didn't have someone isn't that correct Chris I'm a sid trck can you guys move on for a second the something is wrong with the laptop battery I have toix so guys correct me if I'm while he's doing that correct me if I'm wrong but as we as we exist right now the code manager is a village employee we're Contracting to fill that position Dorene through cap because we don't have someone but it should still be in our budget because we've not made that Cho we've not made that decision have we to bring her to Outsource that completely yeah is that am I am I not remembering this correctly no I think that's correct yeah we conversation so there should be a code manager on here budgeted I didn't realize luchano I I probably did realize and forgot that he has a different title now um there should be I thought there would be a code manager I was expecting dorine Lani luchano Raphael and uh an administrative person so I'm confused what these four are because it's four now if we're saying dorene's not on here that's five I wasn't expecting five people on this budget for for salaries but so that that would be so this is within the structure that that you envisioned for next year the question is dor not being here right but we haven't made that change yet so don't we have to budget for what we have not what we think we might have in the future but what if we don't what if we didn't make that change we don't have it budgeted we will not have Daren next year okay that's why I was I kept like looking at you for an answer all right yep we're not going to have Dar next year all right so the we're not going to have dorine or we're not going to have a code manager we're going I don't have an answer to that question it depends on what the commission decides darene has been snapped up by cap so she's not available to us other than through the cap contract so I I guess if if so my my to me what's important Chris is that you have in place a structure that you feel strong enough to stand behind the code Department together with whatever contractor Services we have with cap so is this the structure you envision for next year correct so we're back to the original plan that we had when when I came down to the Village which was the cap person training in-house to be able to take over the entire code enforcement to do that properly we need the supervisor at least one officer and then one Clerk and then that extra position is additional code support or Planning and Zoning depending on the needs at the moment so going this route with nibs well with Luciano um Vanessa Raphael and Denisha that will give us the ability to continue code enforcement Services um in the event that we lose the knowledge that darene has if she's assigned someplace else well how if if Dorene is being I guess taken back by cap is there a timeline do we know when that's happening could it happen at any time how how how will that work do we know it could in theory happen at any time there's no there's no they don't have to give us notice they can their our agreement with them is to provide that person whether that's a Daren or whether that's somebody else um to provide that person for us um we will lose the institutional knowledge that Daren has from her time here that's why I'm focused on building up the code Department as if we expect her to not be here see but if that's the case then I'm still kind of stuck on why do we not see a code manager on here because you're saying as we as we exist right now we think we have code manager and it's been outsourced to cap and it was supposed to be a temporary thing now you're saying that she is not going to be in that position anymore and we're left in the position of out of of them covering over with someone else they would find someone else qualified that's fine but we still haven't made the decision to do that so I'm confused why we're budgeting for something that we've not decided to do because if Daren you say she can leave any day let's say she leaves tomorrow then we're left with this structure here and there's no manager in that position I feel like a budget's being shown to us for this department that does not mirror what structure is right now I feel like you're showing us a budget for what you want to have happen at some point in this fiscal year but it's not as we exist right now and it's hard for me to keep up because these things are all mislabeled this is another sloppy page sorry to be so blunt but it is and we're just finding it out now so I can't even keep up with who these people are and what they're doing on here to that point should we be should we have here in in this section in section 12 should we still have that should we still have that line item because she's in the position now and to Max Point she leaves tomorrow you know she's this can be changed I guess before that happens but let's let's assume for a second that it's not until October or November um don't we have to leave the line item in there to reflect uh her potentially being with us at the beginning of the of the fiscal I'll kick that over to budget to answer or to finance to answer I'm not sure how that accounting would work how how would we plan for that Paul a restructuring you would amend the budget if necessary you could again the details in this budget are not the obligation it's the amount of money per Department that's the only obligation so if you have the 200,000 to solve the problem it doesn't matter what it's labeled but the number Paul is an aggregate of the smaller numbers above it on the page so how do we approve 233 just kind of like okay we trust that 233 makes sense I don't know I'm not looking I'm not looking at a list of numbers above that come to 233 that are justified in my mind so I understand what our job here is with the budget but it's not just a magic number pulled out of our butts at the bottom right hand corner of every page it's it's a total of the numbers above it and these numbers I'm not seeing these numbers justify even align with positions that are supposed to exist right here so I'm back with what Jonathan just said Can let's assume for just a second that dorine is staying with us for the sake of this conversation would her salary or would what we spend on her be allocated in in this section um I'm trying to remember we did this we went through this last year we we were in flux as well so we kept a a placeholder of either contracted or salaried should the department evolve in One Direction or the other so I I was under the impression that was still happening so I'm I'm not exactly up to speed personally and and so this reflects an ask and it's really the same to me it's the same that whatever however you fill the position is you're looking at it a different way you're looking at administrative discussion this is a financial discussion right and 233 is an increase so 80% in huge increase and I'm back to where I was a couple of meetings ago where I said are we getting what we want from this department I don't know because i' we some things have changed rather significantly in code over the past year or two and I'm not seeing anything to justify extra people all the other Investments we're going to looked at on all the following pages I don't know I feel like we're investing in a department that I think feels good but I don't see anything showing us that is that the accomplishments are any greater or moving us in a direction that we want to go I don't know we're Flying Blind here we're just kind of picking numbers out of our head and putting increases down based on people that I'm not even sure what they're doing so uh well how about how about this a question for I'll get to your point in a second Paul very just very quickly the supervisor position that we have here we have an increase is it I guess is it the intention that if we don't have let's again let's say Dorian leaves tomorrow would it be the intention that that this that supervisor role is taking over for the manager role correct yeah okay yeah but the money that's being spent for jine now is coming from where in in our within our cap budget where is that coming from c31 if you go there Paul is was directed me to uh it's $117,000 as adopted in 2024 correct and that the the aggregate of the two worksheets from 2024 was what gave you the options of a couple staff people on on site or excuse me Village staff and then line 31 gave you $117,000 for Professional Services which would be the contracted role so between those two it's balanced back and that's why it's just put all back into inhouse it's the same thing this is a crude way of saying but we're taking the the 117 or whatever from c31 Anda it from that section in and accounting for it here in 12 right and the only new the new money in this whole equation is $8,100 to have the attorney uh enjoy code enforcement meetings got it that again c31 that's the different conversation in 31 yes it is so but c31 the idea here is that this is this is the 117 117,000 was what was being budgeted for D Cod director position which is now being rolled over because that's being adjusted to zero is being rolled over for the additional raises and additional staff in 12 so the the savings of 108 uh 9 10 um that huge savings there from the 117 um that is being rolled over is what you're saying right well it's being spent right now in the all in the 12 line because it wasn't wasn't really clear you know how to code that person so it's all staying here from a from an actual year-to date if you see the year to dates at 148 so we're not going to have that $17,000 cost on Professional Services any longer that's what this is saying and so we're also not going to have that level of employee for that with that or that we were spending that 117,000 on that was Dorene who's running it all for us and now it's been parsed out for these other four positions none of which are that management level that we're getting from her got it so so what is the 8100 for Professional Services that's to put the attorney at the code enforcement that's a separate conversation got it okay um so in essence what you're doing is just moving Chris out of Professional Services the idea of making this 100% a code in-house Code Department with the four positions I'm removing the names because this could be anybody um and uh within the salary ranges correct yeah please JY but right now we have as we sit here today we have dorine manager luano supervisor Raphael officer and then administrative support so it's three people that are out on the streets writing code and this what we're looking at here it's only two people doing that because the other two are both administrative position solely so it's really a decrease from right now we have three people driving around writing up code violations plus an administrative person for four and this other person that they share so it's like four and a half let's say but in what we're looking at here now we've dropped down to only two people writing code one person assisting them in the office and the shared half position so it's a decrease of one full code person so I'm seeing this as for the same amount of money when you blend these two things together we're actually getting less service is that correct is that a fair way to look at it that's a question for Chris well is it the intention that there that only two of these positions are going to be field thank you field positions no the intention is to have a total of three capable of going out on the field wi within this group here okay which ones would they be supervisor officer who else a yet to be named officer number two but I thought it was supervisor officer admin shared position I thought were the four see the names on here are wrong so it's really hard to follow this conversation Chris can you go from top to bottom and tell us what those titles should be Code Compliance supervisor code compliance officer code compliance officer administrative assistant so what I'm what I'm hearing is the commission would prefer to keep a contract with C or that code manager position is that is that correct is that what I'm hearing I didn't hear that but I just heard you list off four titles that were different than what you said before I thought it was supervisor officer admin assistant and it was Denisha and I'm sorry the other young woman's name you're asking me for both current and future state which would you like well first I want to understand these four people that are on here these four titles because I just heard you say something that sounded different than what was said to us before so I want to confirm again you're telling you're telling us that these four should be code compliant supervisor Luciano officer Raphael officer and who's that officer give us a name Vanessa Gutierrez so again again let me let me explain there's two different ways of looking at this the first is current state in current state we have supervisor Luciano officer Gutierrez admin Vanessa admin Denisha looking at Future state it would would be supervisor nibs officer Raphael officer to be determined and admin assistant well that's theisha what happens to Vanessa I'm not saying whether that's Nisha Vanessa I'm saying that's the second officer position and then we we wouldn't have that Administrative Assistant yeah we just don't know which of these people if either of them is going to fill that position this is just budgeted for the position I am not making any personal decisions at this point I got you I very quickly not to detract from this but uh Janie's up here and she wanted to make a comment so Janie what's going on to say the least I am completely confused it doesn't seem to be that long ago that we talked about or excuse me you folks all talked about how the the manager position which is now Dorene was going to actually come inhouse I cannot even begin to tell you how critical the knowledge that she brings to the table is to the restructuring to the professionalism of that department to eliminate that position the person who has that kind of oversight and background and who has helped other departments to get their structure and their forward movement to eliminate that in favor of what I'm seeing on that personel sheet I think is a phenomenal step backward and I would strongly urge you to reconsider that so Janie to your point um I think it sounds like it it I mean somebody correct me if I'm wrong it almost sounds like cap has kind of made the decision before we were able to to bring her in house fully or to make a decision to to keep her right so I think we would need to I don't know that we can make that decision tonight I don't know if we can say yes we want to do that look I don't think you're wrong I think everybody's very happy with job that Dorian has done and happy might be an understatement um but seem to have switched gears all of a sudden well let me let me ask this question um based on the numbers that we have in this section would we have it's 233 budget would we have the freedom if the the commission let's say September whenever we're meeting um if we decide at that meeting because I know the cap item has been on there for a while does does dorine fall under the cap item that we had on there for a while darina is off the table what happened is cat brought her in fulltime and she now has a nete oh okay then well no a a district court in Texas just uh just just changed it but I would still not eliminate the position I would ask cap to because cap has a history of having provided very good code officers for this city it actually goes back probably close to 20 years ago when they provided two code officers for us both were excellent both went on to very much higher positions including an assistant manager in North Miami Beach they were that good so I would strongly urge you to look into Cap's ability to provide as someone else for that position because it's needed I don't disagree with you but so that that my next question I think maybe able to Encompass that decision at a later time the 233,000 that we have proposed for the next in this section would you have the freedom or would we have the freedom Paul feel free to jump into would would we have the freedom to move that money around to make that happen with cap to say cap we understand dorian's off the table we want somebody else to come in as code manager does this amount of money give us the freedom to do that sorry the the challenges is this proposed budget actually is the people that are proposed to be assigned so it's exactly 233 the four individual that we've been naming this is their projected 2025 cost 233,000 so there is no additional money because you're deleting the 117 under Professional Services that being said you could put a bucket of money in here ear market for this you know commission and Village manager discretion should we reshape the department which is kind of what we did last year and you he brings it back when you're ready and you do you know it doesn't take a budget amendment because you're not changing the total amount in the in the department and a good thing that's what you want to do rather than have to go through another hearing then does this kind of in theory kind of let us have the cake and eat it too we can do it both ways so if we were under this hypothetical we've been discussing it during we're up and leave tomorrow we have budgeted here kind of a contingency plan of people that have you a knowledge to kind of carry it over to the point where we can get to a discussion to say we want to have cap bring somebody back in because I don't want to foreclose our opportunity to be able to have that discussion so this is all well and good speaking from individually you know this is all well and good but I I would like to make sure that we have the freedom to be able to have that discussion without limiting ourselves then I think the solution is at 117 well any amount of money you choose it would be the allocation the commission votes to allocate to the the service of Code Enforcement how it's managed and how it's organized as long as it doesn't exceed that number doesn't require a second budget amendment so before we get to that Point um Chris the the the people and the roles that we have here based on on your work with this part of the budget is is this what we would need kind of as a bare minimum to survive without a code manager until we get to the point where we can bring it up again and try to bring somebody back in to fill that role should we so choose this is the bare minimum we would need okay so I guess that's the question that we're really being presented with then is this 233,000 is what we would be looking at if we lose a code manager and we decide not to bring in another code manager now we can continue certainly not ending the discussion at that 233,000 but in in my opinion I'd like us to be able to put some money back into the Professional Services in case we want to go back to cap because we've had a good experience well we C Chris can move that around within this entire department he can take money from if we left this exactly as it is this 2 233 and change and object code 12 he can move it over to 31 himself as long as it stays within the budget he already has the flexibility to do that right yes so we don't have to also right I'm sorry Chris so that that what's that it's not in the proposed yeah so the money I guess m what we're saying then is you're you're right we can move the money within these departments as we as we as Chris would like to do but that 117 I guess the 117 because it's going to these two additional employees exactly it's they're in the budget as it currently exists he would need to eliminate those positions so if we had those four people then he would have to eliminate those two positions in order to reallocate it to bring a code manager I don't know what you mean by that would be one way to do it we have four we have four four positions here the 117 that we had for dorine was taken out of c31 and brought in to bring in two more people there yeah so yes technically the money that we had is all in item number 12 including the money for Dorene but if dorine were to leave because we don't have her allocated under c31 anymore and we fill all four of these roles in the numbers that are being proposed then in order to reallocate the money to bring a code manager back in these two new people would need to be eliminated or removed or money moved from somewhere else or something something would have to happen to the tune of 117,000 or and change whatever it would be this is all difficult to look at because some of the zeros on here on number 12 which because because of the rejiggering we did so right yeah right so maybe maybe we do it this way um why don't we come back to 12 sorry sorry don't we come back to 12 why don't we look at the rest of the code budget to see if we can make some space for that additional so we're not we're not saying we have to eliminate two positions to bring another manager back in if we yeah it's it's all locked it's all lock just about there's a laptop I think darn you found $2,000 okay just a quick question so we're all assuming daren's leaving right um what if Dar doesn't leave we leave here we let we tell her you got to go we don't have money for cup yeah I'm sorry can you ask that question again so we're all assuming Daren is leaving right I mean everybody's just so what happens if Dorene does not leave or does not leave the first three months six months what happens then we would the proposed budget is we turn off those code services from cap so if we want to keep her around we to keep those keep that switch turned down we need that additional funding for the Professional Services so if she doesn't leave at the beginning of we would just tell them we no longer we would just not call her for her Services because we don't have money to pay okay unless we decide to so I for me is your recommendation as uh the village manager Chris you're putting zero money to cap and you're saying the you have staff right now for 2025 that has the expertise to run solo and you're you're not asking for more money for cap yes and no this is this was assuming we would lose the knowledge that is darine in which case um there wouldn't be a reason to have that position um the the knowledge is is the key thing so if I had my way my my request would be let's maintain our relationship with cap because that gives us that manager and hope and pray they keep giving us Daren um and then we would have uh Luciano and rapael as they are um Vanessa could still train up to the position of cod compliance officer and then we would leave Denisha for the moment as that admin for both departments so my wish my hope would be that we could do that um but again this was built planning we couldn't what about this what if what if we continue to put that line item in for dorine for cap let's say she up and goes in I don't know October November if we decide at that time when okay you come to us you say okay doran's leaving it it's official she's out in 30 days it can come to us at the next commission meeting we can say go back to cap and let's get them to have us another code manager come in then we continue with that lineup or at the time if we decide okay we don't want to go with cap we want to in-house it take the money from c31 that we're going to allocate we would allocate now dump it back into C12 and then go retain those people could we do it that way yes so that way we could maintain the status quo for now and then decide what to do with the money if and when during goes correct would that need a budget but it sounds to me like sounds to me that from what I heard from Chris is that he wants to have both he wants to have the four persons that we already have here plus the revenue in there for cap or am I did I not that ideal y that would be the ideal yeah so so you're adding 117,000 to this what is it 233,000 no what I what I was recommending is we we do not we leave the 117 and c31 that was there last year continue to have Doran work for us when she makes a decision or when C makes a decision to move her we can then say cap give us another code manager we want a code manager from cap because we have a good experience the line item is still there understand that but it would be it would be eliminating it would be eliminating these two for now but because the money's still in the budget if we decide when Dorian leaves we don't want a code manager anymore we want to bring these people back Chris go ahead eliminating which two Jonathan uh on are either of the two that we can for to do without well okay but you're basically this is all very confusing which is what we did in 2024 we kept the 117 in c31 pretty much we had two two employees in because and because the money is still within the code Department we can move it at a later dat if we problem with that is it seems like but there are people in those positions yeah the positions already staffed now currently so we're going to fire these two people that's the issue and and a second ago look I'm I'm I'm now I'm just getting more confused the more we talk because we're looking at your ask budget Chris this is what you're asking us for and you're not asking us for any money under Professional Services for a code manager so you're not asking us for it I'm looking at it you ask for zero now you're telling us what you really want is to have that funded as well why isn't it in there that's my first question if that's what you really want why are we not looking at you what you really want and if we do that it sounds like we're going to get rid of two people and that's a and a minute ago I I thought you said she's gone dorene's already gone like it's already a done deal now you're making it now I'm hearing that maybe she'll stay for a while or indefinitely Or we don't know I could have sworn you characterize it as Dorene is no longer going to be working for us no that's not what I heard he I what I heard Mack is that he said we're we're moving forward as if Doren was no longer going he said that she she said he said that cap assigned her to some other job and she's no hour like it's already it was already a done deal and she signed what did you say was it sorry yeah what I said was cap brought Duren on full-time and she signed a non-compete cap can choose to leave her with us cap can choose to move her to any of other municipalities but if we if we retain cap they would still have to provide someone to lead the code Department right so whether it's Dorene or you know whomever I mean they would be Dorene but um but yeah so so the only issue that I have guys is that you know when I opened this up uh this morning I was like you know we we're a tiny village that we and we want to be so bad a big big bad boy you know and we we we just don't have the capacity to be to be what we're trying to be I I would love to say that you know we're you know we we we we have limited funds in this Village and you know we have to be very careful how we spend those funds um and we're adding layers upon layers upon layers to a tiny village y um that in my opinion is is we're we're trying to be too big uh for our bridges um so I I I think we need to make a decision here whether we decide we want to do the cap thing or we take that money away and and and put it into uh building the department but I think we need to make a decision one way or another that's well because now to art art to your point it's not just what we're looking at here now it's an extra $117,000 right yes under Professional Services cap would be increase of 117 on top of the increase we already have exactly I tend to agree with art that you know it we neither need to make a decision one way or the other to try to have both sides of the ball here we it's it's we're overspending and we're already 400,000 over budget so then I I'm then the only thing I'm confused on look I my direction what before I I just lose my yeah yeah sure because I'm trying to build this math in my head spent so far according to C12 and c31 we only have 48,000 planned we have 247 so there's a $100,000 difference because those last two positions on the list that you're looking at phoh for proposed 2025 they have zero for proposed 2024 yeah that's not a 6% cost of living increase it went from zero to those because they didn't exist and now they do then to that point my question is how are we paying for the code manager and those positions if they're already staffed how are we do both right now our our spend right now is 117 uh no let up Professional Services here I'm in a different yeah there's zero that's what I'm saying there is a $100,000 yeah exactly still in the budget for 2024 that we have not used one of these employees is a transfer from admin to code yeah let me they're being paid in admin currently now let me go back to square one so we we walked in to the budget with two positions in code we had an extra admin position in administration we moved that to code to beef up the staff and then part way through the year um we approved an additional person to be that half code half building so that's where those two positions came from I think the missing piece here is in Professional Services 31 so we we adopted 117,000 in fiscal 24 and that is for cap Services [Music] assuming we didn't have that additional money this year we did not include that in my asks budget and instead cut that back to just the four positions and not the additional services from cap so there's a huge difference between what I hope and what I would love and what the village can reasonably afford so when you're looking at the budget as a whole you have to take in multiple pieces of information multiple budgets multiple departments and this was one of those places where I felt it was possible to cut that $117,000 and then just use what we currently have inhouse um to attempt to get the same service so that's the answer to your second question commissioner that last part to attempt to get the same service and that's where I'm stuck it's it's not just numbers on a spreadsheet to me it's the level of service that we're going to get from it correct and if you want to say let's throw another 117 back in here to maintain what we currently have I am all for that so J can I can I ask Janie a question real quick Janie obviously you work with uh with these folks uh way more than we do um I would love your opinion on the matter as far as how you feel about the well first of all the individuals that are currently listed uh as a supervisor blah blah blah we should go there and then U maybe talk a bit about you know how you feel about working with an actual manager for that department with all due respect and not saying any more than I would be properly entitled to say staff still needs someone if God forbid not dorine of a dorine caliber they need someone that first of all part of what I like with her having that broader background that if she were solely a a village employee she may not have is she's bringing that perspective from multiple agencies to her position here and she's much more able to structure how things get done she's much more she does an extremely good job of presenting cases of follow through there is that professionalism that we are getting from her that it's still a learning curve with the others and that is a huge concern to me and don't get me wrong I pay taxes here I'm all into yes fiscal conservative but you can be Penny wise and pound foolish and and in this case yeah I'm looking at Penny wise some pound foolish so that's that's and I appreciate that because that's my concern you know to this is not just about dollars and cents um this has real ramifications for not only for the village but for those of you that serve on the on the on the code board and how that that piece is deal because I I I remember going back some time and how difficult it was for you guys in the code board getting proper documentation getting proper you remember the last thing we want is to go back to that era where you know you guys were struggling for information and and not getting so that is something that that's real and something that has a value we need to consider sorry sorry may ask a direct question to Janie yeah course Janie who's from the village perspective at your code compliance meetings who's representing the village and presenting the cases Daren there's your answer why don't we do this um I I look I when you came up and and you spoke the first time Jenny I thought I I wanted to maintain the ability to keep someone in the code manager position through cap because we've had a great we've had a great experience and I look at it this way okay it's about us on the board it's about employees but you know what it's also about the residents of this community that they can trust they may not always like but they can trust that they have that caliber an individual in that department who will take the time to explain to work with them that's a critical component that she brings that it takes a while to bring others to that level you know everybody brings kind of a different talent to their positions but with her experience she brings that she can kind of bridge all areas Works beautifully with the board appears to have good relationship with her up and she's got a good reputation in the community from what I've seen so this is just not something it's only it's not just a numbers game so what if we were to do it this way um if we were to take two of these positions the two two of these positions in in item number 12 these two of these positions are are basically the 117 that we had for for the code manager what what if we took those two and turned it into kind of a hybrid line item that basically said code employees and or manager and then give Chris give you the ability to work with the money that you're asking for the 233 to keep the manager and in in the event that we don't we aren't able to or something happens you know we can go with the additional employees I I don't know where that leaves us in with them now being in those staff positions because we've already moved them over from admin and we've already been through admin so I'm not sure how how how to reconcile that just yet well I don't know that we need to do that because again Chris has the ability to do that anyway so you know he could come to us and say guys I'm going to shift some things around here and I'm going to take this money and move it over here and spend it this way and you know he has that he that's his authority anyway uh but um again we're talking about people who are slotted in positions because as soon as we talk about keeping the money here in one place and not in the other and thinking we might want to continue spending it elsewhere that immediately means well then we have to eliminate two positions or Chris has to come up with another $117,000 within the code budget to make the code budget balance or come to us with a budget amendment which is an ordinance to move money from another department to come in here and help balance out the code and I'm going I I I I heard I heard art and he's he's absolutely right we have to live within our means and realize what we are and who we are and and and and we we can't increase this budget by a hundred plus thousand that's what really ultimately this comes down to to do this it's adding 117,000 $120,000 to this code budget but I have a question and Professional Services p on c31 the year-to date spend is zero why is that it's all being coded in the 12 worksheet you'll see that so when There's an actual spend of 148,000 you can see that there yeah that's where it's going so we spend Cod is uh cap is charging against the the code enforcement budget it's just being routed there for some reason because I would want to know so Dorene worked 100% of the time for us for $117,000 or is it that we Ed 30% of our time and in essence that's what we would need to allocate for cap do you understand what I'm going with this you have 117 so I you have $117,000 forecasted for cap and c31 my question is what's the actual against that specific Professional Services I I I'd have to pull all that and add it up I don't know I mean I have it it's how how does cap invoices uh for that is this an amount of hours that it goes is it a like was it consider full-time employee at this amount of at this budget right there it's a flat fee okay believe it's it's a flat fee she's not full-time um so she was not full-time no I think uh I Madam clerk I'm just gonna submit ball 30 hours a week if I remember correctly all right so 30 hours a week we pay $117,000 we'd have to go through your budget to get what the exact spend is so far this year I don't have that because that would be my my my question so to just to backtrack so for me Chris I find this messy in the sense of this is your chance to own this department tell us what you need up and down even if it's uh you know asking for the Stars this is the way to do it we went through a year to sort of learn what this process was with cap and see if we can create our Sops use the expertise from Dorene to train the rest of the department and I trust you you tell me if these are the the people or maybe you have future plans for who those might be and that's something for you to decide but you you're saying you need four people and you don't need additional um hours from cap I think I would like to know if 30% of a a director level is what we need to sort of supervise the structure you have right now would be enough and if so does it mean that maybe you need a director and hire for a position that's higher and you know restructure what you currently have proposed because we can't afford both the reason why we were paying 117th because it is a contracted service by a third party we would pay half of that maybe or maybe not but not 117 if it was directly so this is your chance to sort of to organize that uh I'm I'm missing that the big picture um I it's just this you know to be able to barl where are you getting that 30% number that I'm I'm following you except for that number so I my question to Chris is what time of dorine so how how often do we use dorine is dorine a full-time employee and the answer was we're using darina about 30% of her capacity right we're using for 30 hours a week sorry 30 hours a week yeah yeah so okay so that's where that okay so it's was 30 hours 30% 30 hours okay but Paul to vero's point about the year to date number yeah year to date we spent 148,000 and you're saying that includes a portion of dorine the money in the in item number 31 for cap but we're missing a 100 yeah through the end of June that's nine I'm sorry one two it's nine of 12 C fiscal months right that 148 804 has to be off because if dorine is $117,000 right and you add in the the supervisor we have now 70 plus 60 for Raphael that's current fiscal year and the other two positions that are zero looking at their number for next year they have to be combined 90 more we're looking at $337,000 when you divide that by 12 months in a fiscal year and then multiply it times 9 months through the end of June that should be about $250,000 not 148 so this I don't think we're looking at Accurate numbers there and this is all B me ballparking yet but the only part I ballparked was the current salary for those two admin positions that year-to date number seems to be really off to me but I thought Ryan said that some of that was being paid out of a different department yeah but he accounted for that because he he caught those other two positions we removed it from the other one it's the other two positions so this is all I I I'm have a hard I'm having a hard time even trying to figure out how to thread this needle because I don't know the I'm not confident in the numbers that I'm saying I'm not confident in a lot of the information here but I am confident that this is this is not going to provide the same level of service let alone an elevated level of service so that really kind of brings us back to the point of we got to decide what we want to do with this part um and the the 233 that's being being asked for I mean look a lot of the other a lot of the other um uh increases in this budget are are things there's nothing we can do about right there's workers comp there's health insurance well then can I make a suggestion here why don't we since this 233 he's asking for here includes the loss of 117 and in item 31 the Professional Services for cap why don't we leave this here for now because I don't think we I don't think we can make much more of an educated decision about any of this because we aren't looking at Accurate numbers here and and there's a lot of variables and ask for this to be represented to us at our first hearing we have two more cracks at making this right and hope that it's not off by a whole lot yeah look I'm not comfortable adding 100 17 keeping these four people these are four human beings that exist and are showing up for work tomorrow morning right I'm not comfortable leaving them in here and also adding another $117,000 in another line item that is currently zero in Chris's ask budget I I can't add $117,000 on here no I think I think I think you're right I think the way to do it is is to leave it as it is proposed right now I mean maybe worst case scenario we say we got to work within the 233 that we've approved to to manage keeping a a code manager on but yeah we can't I mean we can't add another 117 or Plus or or you know give or take but I think leaving it as is for at least for the time being with the understanding that you know we' like this to work with a code manager um because that's kind of what it sounds like that's what we're you know we're preferring um leave it like that for now uh and then and then see where the savings are as we go because there's really nothing else we can do I mean these these four people are they're already employed and they've already been moved over yeah yeah maybe I'll remain an interal Optimist I tend to agree with Mac I these numbers don't seem accurate I mean I I just don't understand how cap is being paid right now if you look at Professional Services zero cap is I'd like sorry to interrupt you sorry can I of course the numbers are accurate the 14884 is all of the Staffing in code AS of the the current setup where you have all four live bodies plus dorine in there I just pulled all of it I can add it up it's exactly right so the number is right and what you're paying for in that line is cap and four people existing I don't see how that that's from the adopted budget if we're paying 150 through the end of June for four people and cap do we lose cap and go to 233,000 we lost one employee and we're raising by $100,000 because there's two zeros on there Ryan I understand that and $100,000 he's saying through nine months of the year we spent 150,000 on four employees and cap right eight months right and we have three months left we're going to lose cap but raise the budget by $100,000 total projected is 208 right for the year mhm which includes cap right right so if you take out7 from that that leaves less than $100,000 the 208 right so the 208 the total projected uh is 20824 right yes correct guys yes 2082 for salaries right so if we take if we're paying cap out of that we take out 117 what does that leave but that's year to date caps 117 for 12 months that's only nine months no I'm talking about projected for the year through through September 20 30th 2024 Max yeah you have 20824 right so if you take out the 117 that leaves less than $100,000 salary and that's and these numbers don't add up that's what I'm saying it's that the the numbers I don't think the year-to date numbers and and and then by multip I don't think the the projection numbers are right either we well short what was the original budgeted amount for code uh if you don't mind telling me Paul the it's original budgeted yeah for 2024 the it's the 323,000 323 that was the original correct the Year yes and this has a net increase of 38,000 which is essentially a a few small items and the salary increases of the existing employees sorry what I meant to ask was in the salary portion not the entire budget the salary portion of the code okay so the that was the only amount in here would have been the 70,000 and the 60,000 in the adopted budget if you're looking at line 12 worksheet 12 so that's 130,000 is what was budgeted for direct salaries okay so but art I see what you're saying because there total projected of 2008 clarify for me clarify for me because I I don't know what I'm saying you and I are saying the same thing in two different ways the total projected salaries is $28,000 for 2024 that's what we're going to spend through the end of of September 117 of that is for cap well that only leaves $91,000 that paid for the other four employees we paid them more than that so something's not adding up here the cap estimate is significant is isn't anywhere near that number yeah and and that's where I think that's what the 20 24 budget was 117 but that's not what you're spending okay so we're way under so that would be good to know that accurate number we're actually paying cap because then maybe we could fit that within the budget what I'm looking at here is fiscal 2024 we have we adopted 130,000 for salaries and code one it's code 12 and we adopted 117 for Professional Services that equals 223 or 227 excuse me MH so if we have 227 in no 247 in amongst the two and we're paying for four employees and cap right now that's more money than we're budgeting next year for four employees correct like 10 grand extra so we budgeted more money last year than we're budgeting this year and we're losing in cap that's why I was saying if we had the actual number from cap to PST uh a point that we're not recording that maybe we don't need 117,000 maybe it's I I just don't believe I don't understand how we're we're paying for four employees in that line item because we're moving one employee from admin over so is he current being currently being paid was it a a move mid year and that's why a little lower was a sub it was a midyear transfer and so the 2025 looks at as though it's there for a full year so it's a little apple orange problem so I I I think we have to also move forward I um Chris for me at least is I would ask this to be cleaned up to reflect what you hope to see in the department whether there is for employees and a percentage of a director in cap to supervise you know maybe it's not $117,000 because this um individuals that we have make up for a bigger Department of Code and their expertise for this past year has improved and maybe when we need her is very specific I don't know that but I would want to know what do you think it's needed um and yeah and then I I will use that to decide you know because this is this information is a bit all over the place a bit can Paul some point can we get a ledger I have The Ledger in front of me I've been been sorting and adding as you guys have been talking and the cap uh that's coded into line 12 is uh is a is not a huge amount of money uh it's I'm 18,000 there must be of the 148 804 that we see year-to date on there for regular salaries that includes cap how much of that is cap that that's what I've just it's about 18 to 20,000 I I suspect there's a few uh labeling variations that's what I'm saying 18 to 20,000 I'm sorry of the one 48804 you're saying let's just call it round numbers of the $149,000 you're saying 20,000 of it is Cap that's what I can find by sorting okay well that can't be right because we're we're paying them $177,000 a year for n months that's what's budgeted that's not what you're paying that's why I'm saying that right now we're not being able to see the actual year-to-date spend for c31 makes us sort of believe that 117 is what's needed but the question is what actually are we using and maybe it's 20% of our time you know and it's not add up to 117,000 Why did we budget $117,000 if we're using so little if you're saying 20,000 year-to date for nine months that's only damn $20,000 by n months it's got to be more that's there's some billing the billing is quite behind it appears also I have the months in front of me that have been paid and there's there's not enough of them in here but it's projected as though it's going to be yeah so the question so maybe four you have the four employees ammo with you in terms of maybe alloca an a a bucket that is for employees and that you know at the end of the day it's for the manager to move around and have a percentage of cap in terms of supervision and that percentage you would Define based on the experience of this year and you can introduce that but right now we don't have actuals for cap no um we don't have actuals reflecting uh even on C12 to add up in order to understand if it's needed and I want to understand this it's one thing to move forward tonight with a number because we've got it get past this but before we approve a budget I need to know that it's budgeting a department that makes sense because what I don't want to have happen is it doesn't make sense and then we're way over budget for next year and we're try we're scrambling trying to come up with money we've got to be closer than we are now it sounds like part of it it has not been reasoned out properly and part of it is also we're not looking at good numbers we need better numbers for the next conversation we have but we also need to come into an agreement how this Village Code Department is going to run because on paper right now it's all over the place on these charts there's nothing I can't approve this I'm going to say yes to something here in a minute because we have to move on but I can't approve this what Paul what did you pull up well again there's an apple and orange thing when you move to employees into a department it comes mid year so your projections Etc I have it all here it the 148,000 is accurate it includes all of the cap money spent to date that doesn't mean it's exactly right because there's months missing bad billing you know things lag billing things like that so you're on track uh as but the 117 is not a real number it's a plug number basically of an estimate I I vaguely remember how we came up with 117 but we but I'm I'm confused let me ask you Chris doesn't isn't cap just charge a flat fee for the entire year yeah let me let me jump in real quick we just got some background information um darina is our information right now is that darina is being paid half out of code half out of building so that's that's part of the reason this isn't making a whole lot of sense to answer your question yes we have a set for the the code portion we have a set fee that we are charged so what is that fee that's what I have to get I don't have that information so this 117 that we put put in here how did we come up with that number just it was my understanding that was the number but now that we're digging into this a little bit deeper um we need to find out what that actual number is okay before I get too far ahead of myself in in the building do we are we still anticipating the 50/50 split for for cap or because we slashed the entire budget for the code manager through c cap it's out completely you need ask that again I'm sorry yeah sure so what we're saying is that um the cap 117 per cap is being paid 50% from code 50% from building right I have to get that information I don't know okay all right I don't want to I don't want to ask you to continue to goine on it then then it sounds like I mean it sounds like we ma to your point I we've got to go with a number and we've got to move on but we're going to need some more information at our next our first hearing we're gonna have we're gonna have to come back to it I mean there's really I don't think there's really anything that we can do about it right now I mean we're going to talk in circles all night not enough information no no so we I Jonathan I just step away for one second can I I heard Chris say that they realized mid conversation that Dorene was half building half code but Chris is the entire amount here in the code Department under Professional Services that 117 is the full number not the not half the number correct that's information I can't give you at this point yeah I was I was curious kind of similar on the breakdown as well so but that's I think that's part of what we're talking about now is that um we need some more clarity on cap and what we're paying them to see one if that 117 is even accurate to you know what is it all going to come from code is it all going to come from is it going to come from code in building I understood yeah I don't think Paul you're seeing you said you're seeing a ledger there with bills and there's months missing to Art's point because I think I Art's making a good point it's a monthly flat fee right so can you see what a monthly bill looks like from cap yeah I was trying to answer that and it is there's a $7,500 flat fee twice and there's a $5,000 fee twice so every single month no only only five payments I have a one that doesn't match any of that it's like 3,200 so digging into that detail it's it's not uh it's certainly no consistent pattern to make a formal statement yeah because if 7500 were Doran that's only $90,000 towards the 117 so it could be one or the other okay well this is another tangle we've got to untangle before we have a hearing on this all right um I don't know that we have enough to to continue with this with the code budget um I I I would almost recommend that we just revisit it but move on to a different department but because I know there's not a whole lot of other well there is one other there is one other thing you don't mind Jonathan is under Professional Services again then we have the attorney fees yeah I do want to talk about that so I want to understand and I don't know if that's a Chris question or a or a brad question but the $8,100 what is that for exact is it for the attorney our attorney or someone from their Law Firm attending every single meeting in person is it sort of a a fund that we tap into and they bill us by the hour how exactly did that what is that number getting us that is the proposal from the law firm to sit at both quasi judicial board or to attend all quasa judicial board meetings both building and code so this one item is for actually the two different departments no this one item is for code 8100 is for code we also have the new line item in building for the same type of services okay and is that for a set number of hours or what is that exactly Brad what did you guys propose to us let's just talk code $8,100 if I may then Chris can you can fill in any blanks Chris that that I might miss or if there's a misunderstanding um so as um there was a code hearing that we were asked to attend um this year this previous year that you've already talked about earlier tonight um that uh attending those hearings is not part of our original retainer agreement well I it's Incorporated but it's not part of our our annual fee or flat fee um under the retainer agreement The Village had agreed to pay the firm $225 an hour for pending those types of um quasa judicial or the or the code board hearings for um design and review if necessary um we had um submitted a proposal to to Chris where we would be the firm would obviously be willing to do that at the rate of $225 an hour so I'm I'm guessing and I think Chris can answer better that's a calculate the 8,000 that you're seeing the 8100 is a calculation of the Cod meetings um times 220 the number of hours of the code meetings for the year times $225 hour well at 225 that would be 36 hours of your time and we have 24 meetings a year I'm sorry we don't have that I'm sorry 36 hours divided by 12 me twice twice a year twice a month no they only meet once a month don't they planning board meets twice a month I'm just talking the 8100 right so so once a month I think there was an estimate that it was three hours for meeting at $225 an hour got it so up to now we have you attending zero hours a year and now we're budgeting and and there was one or two times this year that you were called in and and uh and helped us out and now we're budgeting for you to be there 36 hours a year so is this a flat fee Brad and does that mean that you will be attending all those meetings the entire duration of all 12 code meetings for the year yeah I guess the answer is the simple answer is yes okay at the rate of $225 it's it's notar a FL or were you bu or were you planning to bill us if you were you waiting for the call saying hey Brad we need you at this meeting and when you come you start billing us at 225 an hour and I don't want to speak for Chris on that I I can tell you from the firms from the firms position it was 25 $225 an hour to attend the code the code um meeting right I understand that so in conversations I had with Chris again Chris correct me if I'm wrong um his desire was to have a member of our firm present at every code meeting from start to finish whether it be remotely or in person so I I haven't done the math but um from what Chris is saying well that's what that's how the math works I mean but what I'm asking you is in terms of billing us are you going to bill us for every meeting at three hours or are you only going to bill us when you show up is this on an is this on call and that's what it would cost us and that's the maximum amount or on this one yeah go ahead this $8,100 is assuming an attorney would be attending virtually or in person every code meeting so three hours per meeting 12 times a year this would have a legal Presence at every every single code meeting so are we making a decision as a village that we want legal representation at every code meeting and every planning board meeting moving forward is that what this is because we're going from nothing no one ever at the meetings and it sounds like we're Landing from no one ever attending a meeting to an attorney at three meetings a month between the two boards is that the change we're making that's a proposed um change okay so that's not the change the change is budgeting or allocating the funds to make that happen whether or not we do that would be a future decision well I don't want to budget for something that we may decide not to do that's what I mean why budget it's like saying we're going to budget for a new swing set that we may not buy let's decide if we're going to get a swing set and then we'll budget for it well but commissioner um commissioner Kenedy to answer your question then based on what the manager is saying that would not be a flat fee if we do not attend a meeting then we wouldn't be billing for attending meeting no but he what what I just heard Chris say unless I misunderstood was he wants an attorney at every meeting from beginning down I think that's what he was contemplating but if I heard Chris correctly he was saying saying that he's trying to budget for the desire to have representation at every meeting both planning design right and code however that's it seems like that he's still considering whether or not that's going to be right so back to my point why are we budgeting for a swing set if we aren't sure we're going to buy it so I think maybe a decision needs to made about that I'd be more comfortable um sort of creating a bucket in there and deciding I just want to know what're what what how much of this is this 8100 really going to be spent or is it really not going to be spent and if it's not going to be that we have an attorney at every single meeting then I don't think we need to budget $8,100 I don't think we need to go from zero hours a year to 36 hours a year for this just for code meetings I think maybe we budget for 10 and see how it goes and we put it in a much smaller number I don't think we need to budget for the absolute Max that it would be assuming as if we're planning to have an this plans to have an attorney at every meeting for the duration and it seems like a giant leap from where we are now I'd rather either budget for a smaller amount knowing that it's being spent at the rate of 225 an hour on an as-needed basis for very specific things that we need an attorney there for or another way to look at this would be you guys asked us for uh an increase in your rate and we already agreed to that it's the first rate increase you've asked from us in how many years Brad five four yeah since yeah I think it's since the very beginning since the day we signed on with you guys and that was four years ago five years ago whatever it was could we is there another way to do this Brad to just pay you more and say and it's to include um to put more in your guarantee in your actual rate and say and it's to include up to this many hours of board meetings as needed if you don't use them you got some extra money from us because we're still underpaying you and have never paid you an increase in all of those years I I think we're underpaying the our attorney um and we've never given them a raise anywhere between the beginning and now so it's just another way to look at it can I ask a quick question Janie you have a you have a meeting every week right every month what well once a month okay and and how many hours typically is what is five six hours four hours three hours between two and three oh okay yeah um M sorry I just wanted to say something mag I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak in my entire life that I think we're underpaying the attorney just that's just from my professional experience well I I I've s it to them every year I've said it to them every year I think we should drop this from $8,100 to $2500 and let them bill at the rate of 225 an hour and see how the first year goes because right now how many times in the past year have we called you into a meeting only once question once okay so once for a couple of hours so if it was this year was an this year we would have budgeted $8,100 to spend less than a thousand so why are we budgeting 8,100 bucks just add another thousand to their contingency fee and that's it that's what I'm saying art just pay them more and say and you have to come to the meetings on an Asin basis so um Chris you're asking for this so I um I want to give you the chance to sort of stand behind that $8,100 is it truly I mean we haven't use it we've had issues where it's critical that we've had assistance from the attorney and that could guide us into the wrong steps over a longer conversation and costly conversations I guess the question is why 8100 yeah the the larger context on this um The Village thankfully has not had any lawsuits brought against against us for anything relating to codee or Hunning zoning that I'm aware of these are both quasi judicial uh boards which means they have a higher risk of something happening that should not happen or something being said that should not be said um or action being taken or recommended that shouldn't be so in order to limit our liability and protect us from future potential issues the best case scenario would be to have an attorney present at every quasa judicial meeting so we like I said we thankfully haven't needed it yet this is putting that protection in place to make sure that we don't put ourselves in a situation where we get in trouble so um I think it would be beneficial in certain instances but it sounds like Brad has only said it's happened once um it may not be a bad idea but I I I like both of these recommendations one either we say let's go from let's go down to 10 hours because that's a couple of meetings in we need it and that comes out to you know $2,250 or we can have Brad check with Ed um Brad whoever you would check with to say how much could we add to the the yearly spend I'm sorry clarify art point I believe yes thank you you want to clarify your own point and I I agree with him is we could just add a little money in the contingency inside code that way if if we have to call the attorney we have money in I like that I got you I got you line it I for future reference see these are the kind of things when you do that then next year we'll be looking at the contingency spend and say well what was that we spend it on and we'll all look at each other and go I don't know and we'll be trying to figure out what it was and then we'll waste another 30 minutes in a meeting trying to figure out what it was if we know we're g to spend money on something I'd rather see it in here itemized well to that point you will because we do um The Firm does submit a monthly bill so I understand that but in our budget it won't be reflected there it would be if if it paid out of contingency we would see it under contingency and we'd all be looking at a budget and looking at you going we don't know what that is I'd if we're going to know we're spending money for that I want I want to see it there so we have a record of it by the hour and we see it year to year to year rolling over in the budget so we can look very imagine in three years guys because some of us will still be here in three years looking at a budget and we're looking at contingency that's all over the place and no one knows what it is so we currently have $1,000 in contingency already which we have not spent one dime no there's no said that's proposed not in 20 there's zero in 2024 okay so for for 2024 because we haven't actualized those hours where we use the the attorney correct I know where they yeah so um $1,000 it's proposed already in the contingency that would cover the two additional so that's all we need to approve it's already being proposed yeah I think I agree with you um Chris in the sense of ideally that's why we would want the backup legally makes absolute sense um on this conversations but in actuality being the size that we are and the issues that been brought up and how it's been handled in the past I'm comfortable leaving and approving the contingency at 1000 for reasons like this but I don't want to have it in the contingency verel because if if it's in contingency we're not going to see a year from now we're going to be looking at the budget for code we're going to see money spending contingency and none of us will know what it is why would we not keep it under Professional Services so it's coded when the bills come in it's coded and we know exactly what it is because it says Attorney Services during code meetings put the, there yeah or whatever amount I I want to see it item an increase no matter what I'm fine with it if you want to put it in Professional Services Attorney Services $1,000 I would say let's maybe a little bit more because that I mean think 2 2250 because that's that's 10 hours yeah that that sounds fine to me I think I mean again 10 we're going 10 hour goes fast guys was that that's a not of comments on your legal work in that sense so um I'm okay with that I I mean I I you know there is already an additional thousand I'm saying the what we had before so if you want to put it in Professional Services I understand magar say so so we can track it better which been a challenge to do um I get it um we can leave it there uh well that contingency that Chris is asking for Vero is for other things within the department that would come up that's what that contingency is to grab all kinds of stuff we haven't had that on 2024 I know I don't think we need it there at all is what I'm saying so um but I think it should be more than a thousand bucks I think you should put in if you did just eight if you did three meetings three three-hour meetings is nine hours times 225 is 20 just call it 2,000 bucks okay that's fine 2000 bucks 2,000 so we'll move the 8100 lion item down to 2,000 and are we removing 1,000 from contingency then I think it was your that was asked for for other reasons okay what was there a specific reason for that um in mind contingency that's what I'm asking if there was any specific uh intent the intent for the contingency is uh uh one recent example we had is a laptop screen that had to be replaced so we don't have a specific line item for stuff like that um or as we get the mobile printers uh if we need to replace one of those um or things along those lines they're just not planned for can we split it in half and just contingency leave the Thousand then for those reasons and remaining for the attorney so a th an attorney a th in contingency 1500 yeah just run that up the first year we'll be doing it so I think we'll get a better idea again on what actually changing attorney to 1,000 um contingency to keep it as 1,000 that's being requested for events as he described and then just leaving the Professional Services to 1500 or whatever your math was so we'd be taking the the 2,000 for the professional service down to 1500 and then leaving the th in contingency so overall we instead of yeah okay um okay I think that's fine still a big it's still a big 1,00 or 1500 oh well hold on I I think a th bucks is enough guys I really do for the attorney all right so a th for the attorney a th for contingency is fine quickly next Jonathan I have a couple of other code things so the item code 41 the laptops it says one for clerk one for director for field use I'm a little confused by that because um my understanding the clerk doesn't go in the field and we don't have a director in the budget so I'm just confused just tell me with these two additional laptops does that arm everybody with a laptop in the field because it feels how many do we have now Chris not not to to to delay that any me but I think Ryan wanted to make a point about what we just what we just moved oh I'm sorry well my point is that we have a a board chair here and she kindly requested not to be here till 10:00 we've now crested over 8 and we're heading rapidly towards nine yeah I I would rather put a pin in code for a few minutes okay and let her finish her presentation okay that's ask her her questions and get her out of here so she can go back home to her family because she is Mac I got a time thanks Ryan Mac I got a I got a a note on your last question so we can come back to it too okay okay that's fine okay okay thank you for waiting good call Ryan did you um did you happen to email that out so commissioner Kennedy has a copy I I'm opening it right now yes she did thank you perfect okay and I forwarded it to Brad so he has a copy in front of him as well excellent okay great you've see how much we've fought for a th bucks you ready yeah can I make a statement just as a resident that this is really disappointing as uh coming in to see how there's a lack of clarity of where money is going and how it's being allocated so this will not be my last budget hearing just as a resident outside of my duties on the parks and Parkways because it's so insightful um and maybe I'll run because it's so crazy because yeah it's just disappointing to know that there's not Clarity of where money's going and it's hard to find in the moment and so that's my statement personal statement as a resident but I know that I already spoke briefly on this and I just want to make a point that this is a rough draft of what we envision long term so yeah fighting for $1,000 and then thinking about $50,000 as an investment into you know a median renovation is a lot but I think that we could see this as a phased approach and if we had $50,000 just sitting in a bucket this is what could happen in the next year but I think the reality is is that we need to take baby steps to lead up to something like this and not only get the commissions Buy in obviously get the money but the community support and buy in as well so I I know that there's a lot here and I do want to preface again it's a rough draft something that the board you know we have just hit Quorum twice in a month you know twice in a row so we're still figuring out our footing but this is something we're really passionate about and really excited to start thinking about and really building a long-term plan to see something like this happen the plot of land is is right there and it's a beautiful space it's right next to Log Cabin people are here all the time for events we've hosted the mayor here obviously the commission meetings happen it's a great place for us to be able to draw attention and actually bring people out and use in a way more than just three bunches and a couple of plants so I want to be mindful of time not just my time but your time as well so there's a document in front of you that really outlines the benefits that we see for this space but I want to make a note that this wasn't something that we just pulled out of the air that we actually talked to a landscape architect we talked to a firm got some rough estimates to be able to start thinking through what this could look like my understanding is there hasn't been money allocated to parks and Parkways so we're starting from zero so something to really consider and really it's the last page of this document that is the most important for this conversation which is the money right so if we start looking about where that $50,000 gets allocated there's a lot for us to consider it's a huge plot of land is the is the big thing so if we really want to utilize what that space is it takes a lot um it it's way more than just um putting in a you know a couple of inches some some plants to really make it the the space that we envision and the space that we can really utilize to build the the ecosystem and the habitats that we envision it's a lot just the the line item of how many plants it would take to fill the space and I'm not talking about a jungle but a well-designed space is 2,000 units and that's a lot of money whether or not we locally you know we're going to Source them locally but it's still a very you know big expense and I actually don't have the updated document in front of me let me pull it up and then there's other things to consider as well so obviously we' would want to create some sort of walking path which we would want to be um either crushed shell or something that is sustainable something that is is a note that we would want to make sure that it's ADA Compliant so maybe it's not Crush shell maybe it's something else but we want to make sure it's accessible to all all residents whether or not they have a disability or not um and then really I got to pull it up or I'm just going to make you want the hard copy one of the ones you gave us yeah the I can share my screen if you want me to put it up because I have a digital I have a PDF of it if you want to let me share my screen I can do that Chris if you you just uh borrowed Ryan's copy I got it so there there are some things obviously the design fee which is an estimate these are all rough estimates that we've been able to gather the demo and Grading this is something that can be taken on by you know internally done by the parks um and through the village so these are costs that could be offset in different ways as well as like installation there is a note here that this could be done with community volunteers I think that's one thing that the the committee really wants to see is continued Community engagement being able to bring out families bring out your kids help us plant these really beautiful you know milke weeds to invite butterflies into our community so there are ways to offset these costs but it's still going to be something that we need funds for even phase one phase one of just like doing half of the plot demoing half of it is still going to take thousands of dollars so um I don't really know how to go about what the next steps are for this but this is what we say this is I this is very it's really interesting it's really detailed I mean it looks like a beautiful project one of the things um has the has the board I guess how long have you guys been working on this for because you got some rough estimates right yeah this came get I will be totally transparent with you this came together rather quickly so this is one person's estimates for us there's not been a lot of exploratory research of like what other costs could be but it is going to be expensive whether or not we go with this person or anyone else and there are things that we could really consider to be able to offset cost like donations and various other ways but so you're you you anticipated my next question was in planning this out and getting the quotes and everything if there was any any consideration or maybe any kind of soft Research into like grant funding or 100% there's so many grants out there that we can definitely look into the one thing is though is that that means that the village has to be able to follow up on those grants so there has to be a commitment if we apply for these grants that whatever the the requirements are for impact reporting or whatever that the village is going to do so yeah there's hundreds of Grants out there that we can apply to there's also you know we talked about we have a beautiful very expensive private school that sits right next to us that causes all kinds of problems do they want support us in building a beautiful Green Space that is close by for their students like there are things that we can do and consider um that's why this is a rough draft because there hasn't been a lot of time ahead of this budget hearing but we needed to get something in front of you guys to say we're serious about this we need funds to really start even a phase phased approach of doing anything this year there has to be money I can go out and I can knock on doors and say hey I would really love support for the parks and Parkways can you give me $1,000 but $1,000 is going to build 20 bat houses it's not going to really renovate any space that's going to be longterm and I think that's really the key piece of this we're talking about sustainable practices that are going to be here not one year not two year Not the Falling bat house in that tree it's going to be here for 10 20 30 years and the ecosystem that we're building is really going to be able to sustain itself if we do it right so that that's why there's a big cost because if we don't do it right next year and the year after that and the year after that I'm going to be coming to you and saying we need 15,000 we need 20,000 because everything is dead whereas if we follow a sustainable method it's going to keep itself alive it's going to do it itself and the work that John has to do is going to be minimized over those years where if we I almost said a bad word if we don't do it fully correct and follow a sustainable way it's not going to work so it really is having that long-term Vision investing in things now so that in 10 years the just it just went out of my head but the plan is in place for us to really be able to see the long terms effects of this but in all transparency yes there is still exploratory research we need to do there is still comparative pricing that we need to figure out but without any commitment from the commission and from the village we're not even going to be able to get to Step One good answer okay are we giving Fe are we giving feedback yeah yeah okay so I first of all I'm all about our public spaces and our median development and and that's why I'm very excited to have uh a staff uh parks and Parkways board so you guys can now get to work on for us so yes to all of that in theory uh the in reality this particular project I also love the enthusiasm and the guy and the idea that you guys are thinking um you want to take a big swing at something and make a statement that having been said uh as much as I like all of this in theory I think we landed uh at uh a budget request before some preliminary steps would need to be done and the things that jump immediately into my head is community buyin because people live around a median and have used it in a certain way uh and have expectations for it there need I think that that needs to be explored before the village could commit to something like this not just from the people who live around that particular medium but sort of in general with the notion of developing things like this um in the village I also think the estimate needs to be fleshed out a little bit more I you are completely honest that you guys put this together quickly but I would want to see some tighter estimates and the other thing that comes to mind immediately is maintenance so there's no such thing as zero maintenance low maintenance it all requires maintenance and as native as you want to be things die and they do need to be replaced and some native things are are meant to die you know and um so the ongoing maintenance would need to be really firmed up for whatever something like this would look like at the end all of that having been said I think you guys need to work on this some more and come back to us and uh with a fully fleshed out plan but first do some more research especially with the community because the last thing we want to do is agree to something pickle ball court and have it sort of blow up in people's faces because people weren't brought into the into the conversation from the very beginning um so I love that you guys are functioning um we have some other things we need you to work on uh that are already in the budget um entrance signs and some things like that uh and I fully support this in theory but I need to see it uh fleshed out a little bit better and Tighter this is a big ask for us Danielle you just saw how we're slicing and dicing $500 here $1,000 there uh so you see that in our you know4 million plus dollar budget this is a huge chunk of money for us that can be spent on other things um so I just need this to be something that comes back to us at a different time not something for this fiscal year that literally starts in 30 days because I don't you also wouldn't get this done this year so we would have an item in our budget of $50,000 and I doubt that any if very much of that if any would be spent this fiscal year because it couldn't roll out that fast because all these things the attorneys is going to tell you okay the village has to get estimates for these things and it's not as easy as you know let's you know build a stage and put on a show in the barn it's when when it's the municip when it's a government doing it there there are things that we have to jump through you know with water features and things now there's legal things are going to come into play I think it's a much bigger conversation than just oh my God we love this thing it looks great and approving it for $50,000 and I don't disagree I would just encourage then as we continue having these conversations I'm excited that Mac is now our liais on to the to the you know committee because there hasn't been a lot of transparency and how we should move forward with projects so I am excited that we'll be able to work more closely with Mac to really be uh more realistic be able to plan and be able to present something for the next year but I would still highly encourage you guys to find a little bit of money because even reaching out to the the neighbors around the media and reaching out to the community drawing attention that the parks and Parkways even exist I didn't even realize that this existed until I saw next door post and I was like sure why not so there still would be need for a little bit of money however you guys figure it out for that Community engagement there's so many ideas that we can do and then we can honestly come back to this really nail down all of the estimates all of the requirements you're 100% right this is super robust it's a huge huge vision and it takes a lot of people and a lot of buyin and there are government things that we need to think about there's so many there's a lot we've talked about a lot of things but I would would say like as you continue to think about the budget that's going to go in effect in 30 days that for us to really be able to make visible impact on certain things just to allocate a little bit of money then I don't even know what that looks like but two two kind of very real I guess action items for lack of a better phrase yeah um would be we do have grant writers and they are able to kind of search for and find potential grants for these types of projects so kind of going through them in in using us to kind of get in touch with them would be helpful uh the other point I heard you make about um the school uh I've been having a lot of conversations with the the COO over there about a community board because they want to be more involved in reaching out to the communities basically was for purposes of traffic um but they're working to put together a community board uh that I've asked to be involved with for the benefit of you know the traffic issues we have on six but this is the type of thing that they might be interested yeah and it's way for them to be able to draw on their students too I mean there I know there are students at the attend to school that are living here in biscan park so any way that we can support with that 100% And for the grants that is my background I work in social impact I've written many many grants so however I can support with that like probably don't even need help um I mean there are things of being able to understand what the village is willing to commit to because you do have to do reporting at the end of the year so I don't want to overc commit um but it is definitely something we can can consider yeah those are defin I think definitely two Avenues to to start tackling this thing because it's it's it's a great project it's the type of thing I think that the village is my perspective not from anyone else's but I think it's the type of thing the village is probably interested in yeah um but those are two very real things to kind of help get started with the project that sounds great and I and these are the visible kind of things Danielle that that residents love you know so we work on a lot of things that are not visible and they're like what are you guys working on it's like all this boring stuff behind the scenes but these are the kind of things that are visible and people can see that their money is turning into something that is making the community better you know so yes to all of that don't want you to think in any way I'm not enthusiastic about what you guys want to work on I'm gonna go cry but no I would like to know then what is the process then if we wanted to submit something like a Five-Year Plan of like this is what we want to see accomplished in five years which would be the full rollout of the renovation of of the butterfly garden understanding it takes a lot of time a lot of commitment and maybe the first year is really just community outreach support and garnering that support and maybe some donations from local you know community members or you know private schools what would be that process what would we need to submit what would we need what information Beyond just like a proposal or or a project plan what would be expected for something like that well Daniel how about if I talk to Chris about that and then I can come to your next uh board meeting and we I can discuss that because tonight for Budget purposes we need to stick on the budget track and it sounds like you want to talk about some other board stuff which which which would be great so I can get some more information from you on exactly how he would want that to come to the Village great okay cool I I also would mention um we we do have some money allocated I'm looking at the CIP under Public Works Chris for um median SES green spaces you sort of put in uh an estimate that it comes to Grants already so there is some money already thought for uh to be spent in fway 25 so to the point of coming back I think have in mind budgeted in the CIP we have $30,000 um so what that means it's sort of a part of the conversation we're going to have today uh but that could potentially work together with uh you know what you're expecting to see yeah just I'm sorry just to clarify that that was $30,000 was anticipated um it was anticipated that would also be grant funding so those aren't dollars that we set aside so but we're saying we would commit to 30 so basically if there is a match right this does not include any match in the $30,000 that you're looking at on the CIP so in the CIP we're we're saying we're going to get 30 with no commitment correct okay so we would have to look into that usually to your point there is a commitment um required but it is in the plans that's right um so for next year um so just like Max I think is more just filtering down what needs to happen so that we make that number more realistic to what we have totally perfect ver if I can touch on that if you also look at CIP a couple lines down we have removal of invasive trees $30,000 I didn't see one tree come down this year if you look at if you look at Public Works budget there's also removable invasive Pines $30,000 I didn't see one tree come down this year we have a board member a board chair excuse me who's shown up who's expressed interest and I understand that her estimates aren't fully fledged out a couple weeks ago we had a arts and culture board come here and said I think this event's going to cost this I think this event's going to cost that and we poured tons of money into those events without fully-fledged estimates to tell one board yes and to tell another board no and have them leave is not right to me I think that $30,000 I just want to correct I didn't say no no I understand I didn't say you didn't but it seems like that's the consensus we're going here or come back with more information yeah I understand they met Quorum and if we let them walk out tonight and say you're not going to you don't have any money in a line item you basically said hey fiscal 2024 for you is over and come back to us some fiscal 2025 because once this budget is fully fledged out the money is allocated we're not g we're going to have a lot harder times to come up with funds yeah to me I say we put something in there for them yeah maybe we don't make it make make the full 50 she's showing where there's places to save money by uh including Public Works doing community volunteering to me to have one board show up and say here here's all the money you asked for and have another board show up and say come back to us next year and ask for more money that it doesn't sit right with me when we when we have $660,000 for invasive Pines when we haven't even got a we've asked for time and time again for a list of which trees are a 10 an eight a nine I haven't seen one tree come down this year and we have $30,000 in a whole code that's only spent $6,000 of $100,000 well there's money in there to take down trees yeah but we haven't gotten there I I think for me I agree with you I'm not saying that's why I want to be clear I'm not saying no um the idea the what we're doing today this is the first time I've heard the parks and and Rex kind of the the board come for with asking money um in the sense with having a proposal even if it's not fine tune I think it's amazing and the project itself sounds awesome um the reality is we've done a lot of things with the art board there've been specific and very I mean delivered so we have a very good idea as to what entails so they're easy to come towards us and say we need certain amount for this and this and this we understand what's mean what that means this is a very rough draft and I think to your point there is money allocated again and that's what I said there is 30,000 at least within the idea of improving medians and swes within our CIP um currently sitting as a grant opportunity that we can discuss about and we haven't touched this CIP yet so if you're if you're um if you're you know point is she has to leave with the budget now I would not be okay with that unless we go through what's left in the budgets to understand because we are still over budget that's why we're going through 500,000 a th000 discussion we are $250 or $300,000 over budget um so and we still haven't finished uh looking into this so we have we have what they're we have what they're asking for and and to ver point we're going to move on and look at other places so we can discuss it again so I don't think we give any anything a hard no now but we can't give her a yes now either but Ryan not to be argumentative in any way Ryan the ARs board came to us and asked us to budget for events that they've been doing for several years so they weren't pulling numbers out of the air they they those numbers were based on something and the event have already happened and they're successful so there is history there um and we do have a list of those trees I have the list and if you ask Pamela for it I'm sure she can get you as well we know which trees need to come out I thought some trees were taken out earlier in this at the very beginning of this fiscal current fiscal year that we're in maybe they did not but we know which trees have to come out we already spent money on an arborist to come in and identify those trees and that's why we budget money every year if it's not happening then that's an Administration issue that that we need to discuss with Chris but um we do know which trees need to come out there's a list and it tells us in which order those trees need to go um so and we do have money in for plants let's call it uh elsewhere in the budget and we can look look at that then so my whole point about this is again love the enthusiasm and this is the first crack at something really big and I don't think we are in the position to say yes to it but we can go look at the budget again and see if there's something we could do maybe as a first step but again I'm comfortable funding a project that hasn't been vetted yet so not only is it just a their first attempt at a budget but it hasn't been vetted The Village hasn't decided we even want this and I don't think we're in the position tonight at a budget Workshop to decide that we do want that it's not our function here tonight and I think to just to close on that point you you mentioned the community uh impact as well um there are surveys that we can do I mean there's all the sort of opportunities to engage with people around us the the community as a whole but also those most affected as well uh that would be interested to to see and um I don't know if you were part of a strategic plan when we ask people so sort of step forward there is a lot of people that want to see more trees more canopies so there is a big support already there um but when you look also at the numbers you'll see there's so many other priorities that also take a precedent uh when it comes to what do we do with the money uh so that's what we're we're just trying to do today is data accessible is that where yes you have it on the website under government and then if you go to Capital Improvement plan oh great there is an Excel there with all the information no that's helpful yeah yeah listen I understand it was a big ask and we are coming fresh like there's a lot but I appreciate the trend you know the honesty as well um but I do think there is a huge opportunity for us and I do think that yeah it is the first time in a long time that the board is energetic and excited to actually get things done so don't think that we're trying to squash that enthusiasm in any way we're the and and we're we're the folks that have to mind the budget you know so I think um Danielle in the interest of time I do apologize um this is fantastic I think everybody's very enthusiastic about it we're excited that you you all are um maybe when we get to CIP we can have a further discussion about it um but for the time being um you know we've got a little bit over an hour to go and we've got like three more departments yeah no this is fine thank you for letting me speak and uh not keeping me here until thank you for sticking with us you did we appreciate it and thank you so much foring up and and presenting this it's really good information oh this isn't the last you've heard of me don't you worry so back to more budget workshops Danielle are fun aren't they thank you thank thanks very much Danielle we we very much appreciate it uh so going back uh Mac you were asking questions about uh code items 41 on the laptops you're asking I think how many we have right now yeah so how many do we have because because this is very specific that we need two one for the clerk for field use she doesn't go in the field and one for the director and we don't have a director so I'm confused what these two are for and who would because right now we have four people on that list and only two of them are field people so again this isn't connecting with the Staffing request so can we get some clarity on what this is please y o includes meetings so we don't currently have a laptop for the code clerk to attend to sit at on the de with the with the laptop and the same thing with the current code director the other two Luciano and Raphael do have laptops so these are the only two remaining laptops that we need so that our code folks are all mobile okay so they're not for field Ed ones for the they're for the meetings but we don't have a director so this would be who because it says one for director you're saying Luciano is our supervisor he has one Raphael's officer he has one the code director's office currently has a lap or a desktop unit whoever's going to be in that position if somebody's going to be in that position at some point moving forward is going to need a laptop with their current Arrangement the person currently sitting in that office needs a laptop so using names Luciano and Raphael have laptops they use in the field correct correct but you're saying that the clerk does not and she has to have one to go to the meetings correct okay and then the director we don't have one but there's a third person in the field there there there is one sitting at that desk or is that dorene's personal laptop or cap laptop that she uses that's a cap laptop and then so everybody will now have a laptop so maybe some of the verbiage here isn't correct but two laptops is what you're saying is correct and thermal printers and supplies how many are these is will this give everybody a printer in their vehicle when they're out in the field will everyone that have a laptop and a printer in the field this will put one printer in each of the three code vehicles and they stay attached to the vehicle Chris they don't travel with the person they're like a fixture in the vehicle itself correct okay okay sorry you said that all uh the three vehicles will be equipped correct but we're going to have four people three vehicles but we're is probably not in order for somebody to go in the field and write a citation they need to use one of the code Vehicles we will have one printer in each of the three code vehicles for use okay that was my question there I have something about 54 if we're going to keep flying through get the 54 what is the International Code Council I know that we're a member of the Florida but this is something that it is new what is it International Code Council provides additional uh back office type support Sops policies procedures those sorts of things um it also provides a network of other code professionals um from across well around the globe actually um so that they can ask questions bounce ideas and so on it's a it's an additional resource okay and then on the training section this is going to lift everybody basically up a level in what they're certified to do now so the two code officers Raphael and luchano will advance or advancing them in in their profession correct because Raphael's a level one now and he'll go to two and luchan is a two and we'll go to three is that what this means as I said yes correct okay um okay those are my questions any other questions on the uh the code budget yeah I got a couple uh c41 the AT&T cell phones is that should that be replaced by helium phones yeah that will not to budget and C 44 the Ford lightning in the status quo budget you have it as $112,000 in the ass budget you have it as zero and I see a same thing of Ford Lightning moving over to public works yeah the Ford Lightning has been moved to Public Works why did we why are we spending we budgeted 6,000 last year we're budgeting 12,000 this year for that for lightning is it the lease going up no we ended up the the short version the commission had budgeted $66,000 for an electronic vehicle in the code budget the Ford Lightning was originally purchased originally intended for the police department as one of their new vehicles um after the changes in leadership and looking at the capabilities of the vehicle and what we needed over at Public Works it was decided that was actually best suited for Public Works um going into that mix we also lost one of our trucks um so we we kind of made the administrative decision to move the lightning over to Public Works and c52 we have fuel accounted for that I that fuel all falls under one on police it's currently paid under police we do for budgeting purposes um we need to account for the Department from which it comes that's all the questions I had okay uh we have any other questions on code before we move on yeah I'm sorry go back to the fuel Brian's fuel question because we budgeted 9 00 but it came in zero year to date yeah it was said before that all fuel gets coded under police's fuel so that doesn't that didn't really make sense to me yeah so but if it's coded under police why do we have it here why do we have it why do we have something here that will have nothing code to it for proper accounting we should have gas coming out of individual departments we don't have that technological capability right now because of the service that we're using it's all done through North Miami so we have to run it all through um One account all through the police department we are going to we are exploring different options for paying for fuel which will allow us to code the fuel back to the individual Department that uses it so that we can have a better understanding of what each each individuals each individual Department's spend should be does that answer your question well it does but then it leads to another question but but then when we look back at the police budget we budgeted for a certain amount of fuel based on the previous year year to date this year and previous years and that would have included this so it still feels like we're you're putting it here in anticipation of perhaps spending it here but we already budgeted for it in a dollar amount in the police department so it feels like we're budgeting for it twice spending it in one place now and thinking we might spend it somewhere else in which case we're over budgeting in one Department we've also added additional Vehicles which is why we thought it would be fair to keep the current dollar amount at $900 we can run it all under police that's not a problem well I was always I was always told that things should be budgeted out to the department where they're used in that's why we do that with lots of other things as well but um but the fact that it wasn't nothing's being charged here is I mean in previous year when's the last time anything was charged to the fuel budget in code Paul it was it's not this current fiscal year was it the year before or the year before that correct it was a while ago yeah so then why do we then why do we have it here it's an extra 900 bucks and all these little it's a thousand bucks and all these things add up you know it just sort of seems like we're just throwing it in there as a just in case as you direct that's just my opinion guys anyone agree with me or disagree or not care this be a duplicate Chris of the the one in police this would be the short answer is yes this is accounted for in police however um as i' mentioned this is also we we now have additional vehicles um for Public Works we I'm anticipating having additional vehicles and equipment for public works so without having an annual history of fuel spend this is our best guess okay if there's going to be additional spend um then it would make but the additional spend is going to be in public works not in code he said I don't care guys it's not that big of a deal it's just these little things all over the place are just after a while if you meant Co did you mean code I'm sorry I'm I'm already on a different budget for code we don't need any fuel spend well this is duplicated in the police department so we can yeah yeah so let's just roll it back to police then would you be taking it out of from from uh C 52 and moving that to police or you just just cut it here all together and know that it's accounted for there already just eliminated here yeah because it's it's already accounted for in the police had it to L Paul um okay favorite part let's add that's my favorite thing to do do we have any other questions on code before we uh head over to I think Public Works is next that's all for me oh okay okay so let's take a look at Public Works I can find it okay man Jenkins it's all you just go ahead and lay out what you want for the budget big ones in here I think yeah a quarter of a million dollars extra the the biggest change or one of the Chang changes that we requested is number and uh number 12 regular salaries one of the things that director Penna had recommended was adding an additional person to be a facilities maintenance worker two or three um what we're experiencing right now is increased need for facilities maintenance um as our facilities age they're requiring more and more attention and it was also the the our idea was to split that position to also include vehicle maintenance um right now if we need a belt replaced uh alternator replaced um some of the minor things bulbs replaced headlights replaced we have to go to Goodyear to spend and spend additional funds to have that done versus having that person here inhouse so completely up to the commission of course um this is just the recommendation sorry and that's a facility maintenance worker correct what's and just for for the benefit of of seeing the the turnover here from manager to labor I think you've already laid out the plan but the idea in in the foreseeable future right now is not to bring a separate new separate manager in in that role in the role as we traditionally understand it correct correct okay just just want to make sure um Flo is open so I guess uh I'll ask just a couple questions uh Chris whatever happened weren't we're going to tear down that old garage do we have that is that budgeted for this year or is that is that something that's yeah that's in the current CIP um we've been having some significant challenges um we put out a request for proposal a couple folks came back said they needed engineering um we reached out to our engineering Partners they said engineering alone would be $120,000 which is a little bit ridiculous um so my new plan um hatched earlier this month is to put out a request proposal for a design build solution meaning they actually come in and do the do the engine the required engineering they would do themselves and then give us the proposal for that as well as the as the build and and weren't we also going to buy um some kind of uh container did that ever happen yep we brought the two containers in we had to vacate the existing garage so we brought the two containers in and then everything that was in the garage is now in the containers so we we we have are we going is that something that we're going to put in the other in the other budget for the actual uh build and and whatnot for for that in the CIP how much how much is in there 120,000 120 yeah that's that's still my estimate for what that project should cost and I I recently this month visited Public Works and took a look at the old garage it's it's it's definitely could it be refurbished yes but I after talking to uh manager Jenkins for a while it doesn't suit our needs of our equipment it it's it's basically a two-car garage and with the amount of equipment we house we're losing money and you know very expensive equipment sitting out in the Florida Sun getting rained on this this $120,000 for this building is very important very I agree with that um I I have a question in terms of so salaries you foresee a chain of 7% but then when it goes to workers compensation it's 50 so it's a doubling is there a reason for that I'm looking at the um overall summary it's the same question I've been asking this entire process workers comp is doubling in every Department tripling in police right I yeah we did research that and it is accurate it's a it's a bill uh adjustment what does it mean Bill adjustment home insurance every the audit comes through they give you a new bill and say thank you very much this is what it's going to cost cool the additional there was an additional 200,000 in workers comp um Miami dat County uh apparently didn't bill us back in 2020 and 2021 for a few payments they were billing the wrong insurer or the wrong um recipient so we just got those bills in and that's it it's a bill we have to pay storm grein maintenance uh Chris uh tab 49 where where you have $3,500 per POS but then it says roughly $7,000 every 24 months is is that an accurate number it seems very low for the amount of drains that we have in this Village are they all getting done all drains would be done once every two years and that 35 or the the 7,000 I should say is uh based entirely on what we spent this last round of storm drain cleaning and all of them were TW corre and that was a portion of the drains right you have like a schedule that does them sort of certain amount and then you go for the next amount correct um all right so into so Chris touching down the storm drain cleaning we have that ask budget but in the CIT under code sorry I just moved away from it uh your proposed budget we spent $133,000 on storm drain cleaning in CIT and we're spending 15 we're asking for 15 this year so we have 15 there and then 3500 in public works yeah there's there's two different aspects one is the storm drain cleaning which is where they come out and they use the power washer to get rid of all the sediment and suck it all up um storm drain inspection is a little bit different that's where they actually have to run the cams down the pipeline on um go ahead sorry uh I think this one of these I can we can knock off $60,000 real quick the wood shipper you're asking 60,000 for that's also ref reflected in CIP and it's amortized over I think five years starting this year so we have well wood chipper twice you to finance it we're going to finance it that's what cp's plan is yes sorry I'm pulling it up just to [Music] confirm 135 correct that's in both places for $60,000 we get Sav all right yeah it's still on there I'll take it for the park there you go um I have a question on um 14 you have overtime what what do that assign for Chris overtime is uh generally the storms for example storm response is that 651 uh expected to increase before the end of September yeah there's yeah we have to everything coded correctly is there some back uh sorry say that one more time we have to get it coded correctly they're paid we don't owe them any additional we just have to make sure it's accountable for properly um we have to do that with actually quite a few expenses from that last storm because that falls under the that could fall under emergency funds the emergency reserves see so that number is going to be closer to the 5,000 forecast City you had that's what I anticipate that's just based on what you've seen so far I mean I remember I think November we had a a large rain event I know y November we had we had one well the the most recent one we had one in June we had one right few months before that in April I believe so then this number is kind of based on what you've seen for costs related to those correct okay caveat is this is a guess just FYI well we've had I mean we've had a few just in the last that would at least give us an understanding of what that cost would look like a couple of things yeah okay so um look at my list here uh the wood chipper we did okay the tractor and backo that $100,000 spend is um it's you know nearly half of the increase of this department is that one item so some clarification on that we currently don't have those items this would be the first time we purchased them correct yes and no we currently have what is essentially a garden tractor um it does have a bucket on it it's not capable of lifting what we needed to lift and we don't currently have a backo the tractor the green one Gator I think no it's a it's a deer John Deer okay so what will without in the weeds with us um what will it be used for and will it be used it's a huge item uh that then becomes maintenance thing ongoing what will this be used for and is there an opport is there a need for this on a regular basis all the time or is this something that you could lease as needed for projects this is a piece of equipment that's currently needed there have been a couple instances over the past year where we've needed a back how to dig I think sign footings um the the uh irrigation irrigation system we've needed that um this also our current tractor is not capable of moving any of the large limbs that fall down during storms um this the the uh BHO portion of this would have the ability to lift some of those and move them off as would the the bucket itself um we don't need to do the full $100,000 up front we can look at a leasing option just rough guess would be 2,000 a month is so 24,000 a year just a rough guess yes so this 100,000 is a purchase then is what you're saying correct okay but we have a leasing option that we could do for about a quarter of that amount per year obviously that is a guess that's not something that I can commit to but yes I I would advise drop this to to a lease plan and put 25,000 in there for both vehicles well I think if once we're moving it to a lease I think the for this is a large purchase I think the conversation moving this to CIP and tracking this over years I see the need for it visiting Public Works uh you know currently they their sop for moving mulch or anything like that around the village is they have to go to Home Depot buy bags load them in a truck drive them over versus there's cost savings there we can order in Things by the yard sand mulch dirt moving large limbs if there's a hurricane and we you know you guys were here Liv during Irma Road clearing they just don't have the ability to do it right now we'd have to hire in a company and it takes days for them to get here versus with a backo they can move that those larger tree limbs they can get them out of the Road opening up the the thorough fares for for emergency services to get through there's a need for this I I think it could be amortized and I think we can move it into CIP uh I think there's some also some cost savings Chris I shared with you some other uh manufacturers who could get us a little cheaper than 100,000 which would help save some money there but there's definitely I see the need for it it it if we're going to start funding treating our public works department like a full-fledged Public Works we need to give them the equipment they need and we need to stop you know asking them to lease it and the delivery fees back and forth they don't have a trailer to go pick it up so they're gonna have to you know ask the company to come deliver it that to me that's it's too much of an ask that we need to give the guys what they actually need they would have what they actually need if they if we lease it they have it it's the same thing we have it in house it's just we're not owning it we're leasing it yeah but why do we have to why do we have to pay it all in one year why can't we just do like like what normal people do in this country and just buy it and pay it over five years or 10 years or whatever that's what we were just discussing and it'd be roughly roughly 2000ish a month yeah yeah so do it for 24 Grand a year instead of $100,000 year yeah I mean that makes a lot of sense yeah that's all I'm suggesting is here's a way to cut from 100,000 to 25,000 that's 75,000 boom just like that we need to take some big swings at stuff guys but but to your point Ryan they'll have what they need and but we just won't pay $100,000 for it this year but it's least to buy so you're saying essentially Le they released to own over five years so that the impact will be seen across the five years not not okay but that that why was it contemplated as a purchase item just for fway 25 Chris versus maybe just spitting it out and and the cost just a reference there's no we can go either way all right so we're good to consider that Dro in it to what would be the the appropriate amount for fiscal 25 well cut down to 24 if you're going to move the wood chipper into the CIP is the same rationale to move the the backo also but a little blurry because they're really specific to Public Works I think they should stay in public works I'm just saying just suggesting changing this one to Capital Improvement plan it's more of an equipment purchase so I think they both stay here well then potentially we would have a cost Savings of $60,000 on CIP because it's that's where chipper is currently on CIP right now yeah so it's it's duplicated we fix that but the point uh they both belong here but I I don't know that a wood Tripper wouldn't be leased also they don't have to be purchased up front yeah just makes sense to spread it out I think we need to look at both of these as leases just to get this number down in this budget we've got to get this year we got to worry about year as well so yes we need them but we don't need them as a purchase the way we see them here and Ryan good catch on catching the duplicate so I think we need to CH change the tractor and backod to 24 Grand and the chipper if we have the same option with that Chris do you have any idea what a chipper would be per month to lease like where where are you coming with the 24,000 Chris said ,000 a month was his guess on so you have an estimate it's an estimate yeah CIP is uh saying the wood chipper would be 135 a year yeah that's yeah okay so but to the point that you made Chris about it's an estimate do we I mean are we comfortable at 24 and and if we find out guess what it's 27 I mean do we want to State at 20 doesn't matter well we have an opportunity between now and the first hearing Jonathan for Chris to get some clarity on that okay so we get cut I'm not going to be able to get clarity on that in the next week major purchase has to go out for bid we got this we got this next next week you can't even get just a number without obligating us to it no I have to put this out for bid and I have no idea what those bids are going to come in at um you know a prime example is the tractor and backo um the four bids we received for that were right around $999,000 but on it is a lot higher so I can't even guess at this point so what's a fair number to in here I think if we keep it I think if we keep it at the at the 2000 or the 24 um 24 a year for the tractor back in the 135 a year for the commercial grade wood wood chipper that should get us in the neighborhood there you go okay so I I propose we make those two changes um sorry Mac on commercial grade you say 13 three shipper down3 shipper from 60 to 135 it from CIP Al together okay that's awesome okay now back to the staff this additional staff person Chrissy explain that again please because we don't have the manager on here that went down to zero we have the three staff members already and this facility maintenance worker explaining that would be a new hire correct correct okay so explain to us why the need for that because the manager wasn't doing any of the labor stuff in the field was he yes he was he was okay I never saw I've never seen any of our managers out working like that in the field I didn't realize they did that I was thinking they did more office kind of work and and management of the staff so is this a full-time employee yes okay so it's reflected then in all the F FRS and FICA and all the other places as well and that that has already been reflected in those other numbers Paul stand by say that again just let me let me look are you looking at page 12 Mac I'm looking at object code 12 I don't look at page numbers Vero I'm looking at page two yeah that's what I meant sorry object code 12 yeah we're in code 12 you're working off the PDF right Mac I am of the asks right right right right yeah so object code 12 regular salaries the manager is there at zero because we don't have a manager anymore we have three what they're called laborers on here went from 128 to 169 does that reflect Chris an increase for John for his new responsibilities the 169 reflects the increases for the three um plus the additional for um the the new manager plus okay so it's cost of living for all three and his increase for his new responsibilities so then back to this 40 6,000 $47,000 person how does that person's individual that salary of $47,000 how does that compare to the other two laborers in that department that are not John because he gets paid a higher rate that is in line with the we're creating we have to change things up in public works a little bit we're creating facility maintenance worker one two and three um so the 46 808 is in line with worker two or three and what are the other two people that are in the line above it now shown as labors are they two or three uh we have one as a one and then Astro I believe is a two and we have one three so we we have one of each so you have a one a two and a three and you're going to add either a two or three and those pay that pay that amount that we see there is the amount that you would pay someone at two or three correct okay so you really are you're telling us you really need another full-time employee there we do need another full-time employee um as I mentioned our facilities our actual physical infrastructure or our buildings rather are um aging and we're using more and more labor to keep them up and running as things start falling apart and in addition as I mentioned I want to bring the routine vehicle maintenance duties back inh housee um because we can do them far less expensive with an internal person um and much more responsively than we can by continually running these things over to a repair shop and you'll have the person to do that I mean having bringing in a house is one thing having a person that has those skills is an entirely different thing so anyone who's classified as a maintenance worker two or three will be able to change oil change headlight bulbs change belts replace the AL Ator um possibly do breaks it just depends okay I I'm not 100% sold on that guys anyone else have an opinion we have an understanding Paul did you confirm I'm sorry Paul did you confirm that those other fees have all been adjusted accordingly they have not the facility maintenance worker is a a salary only uh so we'd probably have to put a 30 30% on top top of that so 12,000 so it's really 58 okay so it's not 58 even that's including all like benefit y okay so this number just went from 47 to what Paul 58 47 to 58 so we just ate it to the tune of another $1,000 the only one that gets frustrated am that gets frustrated by these things and I mean this is the kind of stuff that's supposed to be done for us so we're not here asking a million questions and unearthing a million problems and trying to fix things on the flight this is a very frustrating process to go through and you just heard a resident stand up and go oh my God this is a mess I can't TR I I don't trust the numbers that are here and I don't know what's not shown to me it's kind of like I'm getting it from both directions is that true and what's not on here this is not how budget hearing workshops are supposed to go we're to be presented a budget that's already been someone's gone through and and cleaned it up and tightened it up and made it right for us to look at now for me to sit here and say oh and by the way were these other things accounted for and then be told no when we're trying to cut hundreds of thousands of dollars out of a budget and there's another 11 we're adding on to it guys why am I the only person that voices this this do you guys not see this or do you just not care this is ridiculous we're doing an extra budget Workshop because we spent hours doing this kind of stuff can we continue yeah we have a lot to continue because I'm sure we're going to find 10 more things like that so what are we going to do about that guys we this worker this extra worker that's budgeted for 47 is not 47 it's 58 so what do we say about that we have any understanding or or estimate or summary of of repair geez sorry of repairs or or cost savings that this person would would offset we looked at it being somewhere between 4,000 and 6,000 and funds that we wouldn't have to spend at goody year for example we're trading the maintenance of 46,000 for for this salari individual for the salary who would also do the facility maintenance you know what the facility maintenance cost estimate would look like I'm just trying to get like a a one to one as close as we can manager Jenkins do you know roughly how much what percentage of um Mr Castro's time is spent on Building Maintenance Mackie saying anywhere anywhere between 30 to 40% of the time that he's that he he's working so it's 30 to 40% of the time that we don't have him in the field Building Maintenance correct okay how can we how can we quantify that can we I don't know that I can quantify that in a justification format for this position CU it's it's we're already we're already spending that money on somebody to do the labor here the benefit of having a person in this position would be freeing that person up to do more work outside so we're talking about the the Mowing and cleaning and and uh pile maintenance and all that sort of stuff without the onetoone comparison on on what we're looking at for savings it's it's it's hard to it's kind of hard to justify $58,000 salary increase here um I know we just cut some uh with with the the tractor in the backo and in the chipper um but this this seems deep whoops sorry yes it is um so $58,000 I agree with you which is hard to allocate um additional to the department uh without understanding what other savings we would have um I'm just not sure that we've really really voiced a a a savings here or a real real important need um I don't know if anyone else is yeah I don't I don't see the need for this I don't see a net gain here of anything significant enough to make us take on an extra employee what's that I can't hear anybody if anyone's talking art is asking if we only have currently only have three employees uh over in the public works no no we have a it well five total two are roads out of the road fund and the three are out of Public Works then three are here reflected in this budget I I I think that's that's probably the way that I'm leaning I I'm not hearing you guys you're leaning towards sorry I was like shouting into the mic before so I'm trying to do better um I I just uh based on like the value that we're looking at the one to one comparison it just it's it's hard to justify this one so I'm not sure that it's it's it's the best expenditure at this time um it sounds like there's a little bit of support for that yeah I I for me it's just hard to justify I mean the number could have been 60 or could have been 35 to be honest with you I just don't know how to put um value against that more than just saying we need an extra employee and I'm sure there's so much work to be done that you know reflects in the day-to-day but uh how it it it's hard to evaluate um and you know $58,000 for this budget it's just a lot so unless you have a specific you know description as to how where spec you know where we've seen the the the lacks in terms of we're not able to meet you know the proper maintenance of our trees or watering is not being done correctly our maintenance over all over the equipment uh you have a way to Showcase maybe hours you know that would justify that um otherwise it's sort of uh yeah it would be ideal to have an extra uh staff member in the department I don't know how to approve do we have a consensus to remove this from the budget and say $58,000 cut 58 grand sounds like it sounds like it let's move on let's make that agreement and move on that's all I have for public works okay so we just cut out of Public Works 58 plus 76 is it's only 46 to remove the 58 would have been to add 12 to it okay so the right say that again we were at what were because the line item had only accounted for 46 it's removing 46 from the budget it's not removing 58 so oh I'm sorry yes yes yes yes yes you're right so it's so with the chipper with the back ho in the chipper we went down to what one we came down to 123 uh we came down 123 is that right yeah yes okay and then 112 500 was the actual reduction with the equipment lease okay and then add on to that the 46 and that puts us at where my math is not great 1585 1585 is that right correct okay want to talk about the flat bottom boat motor oh yes thank you Ryan I had that on my list and I forgot to bring it I discussed this with Chris today I have a lot of concerns about uh our employees operating a boat in can you speak into your microphone for me please sorry is that better M thank you that's better thank you uh I have a lot of concerns about our employees operating a boat I I understand this is it's an ask in public works for our police to use mainly in emergency situations flooding things like that there's a lot of training that comes involved in getting on a boat in emergency situation I I I do that training yearly and it is I do it for two different agencies and it is not something that they would ever let me on a boat if I didn't have all that training done so I I don't see training here for that I will say that I see the need for some kind of flotation device to get our residents out of extreme flood situations if they want to if the County fire rescue is not responding in a adequate time uh there are cheaper alternatives inflatable options maybe just a boat without a motor when you start adding a motor into operating in shallow water there's low hanging branches there's down power lines there's things that can get you in a lot of trouble very fast that if you don't have the proper training to recognize those things you get somebody killed uh I don't see $115,000 in this line item I see maybe five to go research some kind of Cheaper alternative that's something that also the storage becomes an issue we have very little storage in this Village when it comes to public works I don't think manager Jenkins would enjoy having a boat in a trailer at his yard all the time that doesn't ever move uh I think that for me I I see a reduction here and I I see the need but I see the needs other places and I see a tremendous risk to our employees if we don't give them the proper training if we're going to go all in on this we have to find the money for the training as well if not I see a reduction to some kind of flotation device we can get him get you know Mr and Mrs Johnson out of the giant puddle that their house is now in and to high high ground so they can go to a shelter yeah all ballot points 49 what is an uh what would be a better estimate considering there could be you know you said maybe some Savings in flatable Rifts usually run around 4 to $6,000 I think you know it depends on whether we get a trailer or they only weigh about 250 PBS so really five 10 guys can pick them up and carry them uh which is something we do all the time I would say I'd be comfortable with cutting this in about a third to or to one third to about 5,000 bucks let the manager go out and see what he can get for that and if it's not something we can do this year we you know talk about it another year but for me would be still staff managing it and you think there's still yes also the the thing about a motor is if we don't we we have a maintenance issue in this Village if we do not constantly run that motor when the when the time comes that we need it it won't turn on yeah and so for me I I see I see a need but a need for something a lot more scaled down than a boat with a motor well said Chris how do you feel about that option as an alternative whatever the commission would like to do uh in terms of um that would be just for the exent would that be uh insurance issues just because there staff I wonder um running a boat I don't know if Brad is on the line but I'm guessing all of that is sort of still supported with their insurance for I'm still here so your your insurance policy I mean your insurance policy should cover injuries to um to your workers um to your employees excuse me um whether specifically I I don't know that there's necessarily A a boat exception but I would have to look at the policy see if there's some kind type of exception but first thought would be that it should cover uh usually there's nothing to to the exception of Vats you know there shouldn't be if if it's being used for for rescue situations but I I would have to look at the specific policy to see if there's any type of exception for operating boat some type of propulsion okay can I ask I'm sorry goe oh no it's just uh to run out so you said about third meaning um 5,000 for the line item okay what what did you have mac I had a question for Ryan Ryan in your professional experience there are a gencies that come in and and help you said if somebody couldn't show up to help out we would use our boat Mi County fire rescue has a highw water vehicle the problem was during the June storms they were in such high demand they only had sure one in service at the time that it would took a very long time for them to get out here Miami dat fire rescue did respond to a flooded situation and in our village and it was just a regular fire truck that shows up they they been go in about 12 inches of water or less so they weren't going and they weren't going anywhere near that that puddle uh it was our police officers who waited through with waiters and made contact with the the victim and they walked them out so that's where I could see a inflatable riff being uh beneficial there where they could sit him down the boat and our police officers could walk through with the waiters that they brought from basbo and drag them over to High Ground where they could okay that's what I wanted to hear so it's really a flotation device for the person they're rescuing the officers are not inside it like they would be on a boat they put the person in there and they walk them out yeah W without without the proper training I would not I would not advise any of our police officers to enter into any water that they couldn't be standing in I would not and they would have to have personal protection of equipment to get in that water because a lot of that water is dangerous it's it's contaminated so they have to have waiters or something like that but without the proper training operating a motor view a motor motorized boat oh I agree with you 100% on all of that I had it on my list and I totally forgot to bring it up so thank you for catching that um I agree 100% that the boat something we don't need and how do we have any idea how many times in the past number of years we've had any kind of a need for this Mr commissioner this Chief Steel on the line um just this last year we do have two homicides with dead bodies in the canals which we had extremely hard time and had to plea and beg other jurisdictions to come in with a boat uh to to help us retrieve the bodies out of the the water uh this would definitely be a tool uh that would assist us with at least getting there unfortunately the last both times people were videotaping and everything we couldn't do anything to get the bodies out so we we had the uh we one North Miami Public Works was able to get a boat and it was a it took several hours and then the the last one um Mimi Dade finally sent some resources so in those that that's I knew that that had happened but in those cases Chief they is the canal out your responsibility to clear a dead body out of is it Poli responsibility to remove a dead body technically the half the canal halfway through is ours the other half is the county uh when fire when Miami D fire rescue shows up if they can confirm what they look like if it's a deceased body uh they will not touch it they they left very quickly both times because there was flies uh they did they do their uh declare them deceased and then it becomes a police responsibility so it's not the it's not the coroner's job to come get a dead body no they they will only get the body once we get it up and processed by homicide then they'll send uh the coiner or the medical examiner's office to pick up the body at that point interesting because if there was a dead body in a house are you guys responsible for going into a house and getting a dead body uh it depends on what it is but like for instance that traffic fatality the uh they wouldn't take the body out of the car the one that was burnt up that was a police responsibility with our our Personnel to remove the body out of the car for them to pick it up they pretty much just come uh get the body put in the body bag okay okay so back to the thank you Chief so back to the boat what Ryan suggests I think makes perfect sense and I think we should reduce that from 15 grand to five grand and I'm confident and you know sounds like Ryan did some homework in at least five Grands a number to get something going in there and in the future again we could always upgrade and get something as we see more of a need and to Ryan's very valid concerns about people being properly trained to use it so I'm cool with dropping that to five I agree good okay looks good so we're gonna move that that's another 10 so by my count Paul we're just over 400,000 $ 42,800 that's I got 8810 I don't know how that happened but I got 4028 might have rounded once okay okay um do we have any other questions on Public Works before we move on I do not would you mind hopping up to the microphone for us here Mr Jenkins excuse me okay good evening everybody good evening I know we shot down the maintenance um saying worker but we still need at least one employee you know I'm saying even if we had a worker number one in going from five up to six sorry you you're saying the one we just shut down the $588,000 we just spoke about right but we use that and hire I'm saying a number one employee because if you have somebody out sit somebody's off this week or whatever then we need the extra bodies John the number one is that like a code uh well it would be a reduced uh salary for that employee yes okay so like the different so what would be the salary for that employee um I will have to find out for that because it with the Union as well so we will have to find out regulations that's definitely some information we would need if we want to talk about that and try to fit that in the budet because we would need to know how much that employees gonna make so we can figure out the total number we're thinking about it okay why I have you up here though um I know you mentioned that we had a loss of equipment that was stolen off our trucks yes because our gate so when I visited uh Public Works John was telling me about recently one of our employees stopped used the restroom at at our facility and the truck would they usually leave the gate open as they come and go throughout the day it becomes uh you know a big job for them to pull the truck out stop traffic get out close the gate so they well their standard operating procedures they leave it open while he did that somebody was opportunistic and stole the chainsaws off the truck we lost money in Lost equipment Maybe some of the money we saved here we could look into an automatic gate opener for them so that way they come they press the button they pull in Gate closes behind them our equipment is safe so when they're out of the facility all day the gate is closed it always stays closed it's a small expenditure so that way save money on stolen equipment if if they're all all the employees are out doing uh their business anybody could just walk into that yard and take whatever they want things aren't even in a building they're just sitting around in the yard someone could pull up with a trailer and pull away with one of our large that could happen at any time then yes so sounds like a good the gate the gate's a manual gate and you know it with they're pulling large trucks out in right in front of your you know you live right down there yeah it's a you're blocking the traffic so I understand why they leave the gate open because they're com going dropping things off but I think just a simple expenditure of a automatic gate opener for them would solve that issue gate stays closed people would just drive by and they wouldn't think I thought the drug was outside wasn't yeah it was outside it was I was just gonna say you know what I'm saying with that one he went on the swell the outside he just wanted to run in right quick and run out so I'm assuming somebody had to be watching them have we know that's the procedure press the button you pull in Gate closes behind you I'm 100% with that I think it's a safety added Valley just to incorporate to the department considering we're about to get more equipment as well very expensive equipment very expensive equipment so I think that the idea of having you know kind of a better security system if you will for the gate you currently have it's not um something I think it's something to evaluate um do we know how much that would be yeah I don't know how much what do you mean I don't know you don't have that number it's all I've never installed one I couldn't even begin to guess I looked at the gate and it could definitely accept one so I don't think it would be a new gate install it would just be adding the opener yeah um I think maybe something the manager could get a quote up for us or an a ballp pork to get back for for our first hearing do we want to put like 2500 and then have that number reviewed yeah that's probably some I'm I'm looking online right now and it looks like for big it doesn't look like that much it looks like cameras there you have cameras there yes but do they work yes they work but the controller nobody knows how to get in because the other 10 employee he had all access and everything else so so that's something that we need to fix yeah right because I mean what's the point of having cameras if we don't know how to use them right it looks guys I just did just don't go by this number at all but I just Googled commercial automatic gate opener and it looks 2500 bucks is kind of like the top end stuff that I saw on there so why don't we drop 2500 bucks in there so we can keep moving through this and between now and when we look at it again hopefully someone can get a a a closer number for US John can I ask you a question before you head up if if it could be out so the the equipment that was stolen is that something that already has been replaced or is that part of the needed equipment still for next year that's what me and the manager was discussing you know because we need a few more of the items too I'm saying along with a chainsaw because if we do have hurricane we we have saws we have the equipment now but that equipment is kind of old yeah we but saying just just to replace what you lost on the stolen items that you lost yes I'll jump in on I'll jump in on that we filed an insurance claim so we had the itemized list of them our deductible I believe is $1,000 I think off the top of my head so we're going to have to come up with that but that will replace all the equipment all right so and you'll have that equipment back okay okay than got it and then if the the garage door opener or the gate opener is 2500 you can probably plan on another 2500 for power installation all that good stuff 5,000 where would that go thank you is that a CIP line item no okay where would you propose under 49 499 so at least it's a placeholder guys and then hopefully we'll get a tighter number okay yeah that sounds good all right um so I think that takes care of Public Works uh unless anyone has anything else I think uh what's the next one we have I'm lost in my notes building building thank you building fund got it open here somewhere there it is okay building all right right Chris is there anything you want to introduce or walk through or uh note for this one I did not add add anything um to this one beyond the status quo budget and it's a Balan budget because revenues match signatures by rule we cannot have an excess right okay uh do we have any questions about the building fund uh yeah why do the I'm sorry go ahead verl no I was just looking at the at the summary that that that has a balance of 16,200 where is that coming from oh you're saying we're matching but I see um which item between uh revenues and expenditures a difference that at the bottom of the page oh oh they don't match it doesn't zero out you looking Paul what did I just hear I'm looking at the actual budget and it's it does zero out okay so at the bottom you have fund balance appropriation reservations for that amount what does that mean fund balance appropriation reservation the the revenue and the expenses don't align but they're there's an there's an there's an adjustment correct yeah exactly she's asking for an explanation on that the adjustment that was last year the 66,000 that was a owed to from the general fund to balance the budget uh as we transitioned to the building fund you may remember there were some we did the shuffling and this isn't the accounting just correcting it I believe and then this year is within $166,000 so it's a pretty modest adjustment but again the ACT ual revenue is not a predictable number so it's right always a reactive budget or spreadsheet if you will this this a correction then you said yeah that that's going to happen every time okay any questions about the building fund um yeah 360 where is it 360 what is the training education sear charge because we adopted 1500 for this current fiscal year and year to date end of June it's at 8500 so we're way over and we're still only budgeting 1500 again what is that what are you looking at Mac which which code Revenue code 360 I'm sorry building fund revenue revenue code 360 got it okay thank you so this is revenue so again is this a matter of Paul we go low and it comes in higher exactly yeah I'm not exactly sure I don't have that act that general ledger to look up what that 8500 is is that what you're in the it's a searge on permit fees so yeah so you're going to get revenue from that from that GNA be able to to track how many permits you're goingon to have in yeah I follow you yeah so it it it's a plug so this is another one where we put a number in and then we know it's always going to go over correct okay that's what I wanted to know again I say that again it's a number that we put in this is revenue not an expense so we can't Bud we don't know how many building permits we're going to have it's like all the other yeah so we don't we put in a low number knowing we will always bring in more and the department balances itself out but this is part of the balance of the of the fund right Paul yeah absolutely yes okay very good that's that's I just want a clarification on that thank you thank you any other questions about the building fund no okay uh let's see see police fund any questions about the police fund sound it the police forfeiture fund police forfeiture fund yep that would be the next one empty I don't have any questions that's easy CIT congratulations is all I say you're using it all that's good wasn't that many years ago we weren't right Paul that was Nightmare trouble we had ourselves in trouble plus all right so CIT is the next one yep can you um help me understand um 64 uh Chris please where it says transport ation projects 80% and then we have the transit at 20 and then there's storm drain inspections cleaning what is that of the funds we received from CIT 80% has to be spent on Transportation specific projects so that's think infrastructure 20% has to be spent on Transit projects so that's the moving people around part and so this Inspection Cleaning how is that relate we see already as uh cleaning drain you're allowed to use the CIT funds there okay it's part of the road drainage so it's a road maintenance item didn't we had that item already show up in it it's in a couple places different kinds of cleaning and treatment but this is the this is the larger one on the main roads so in essence it's it livs in several buckets which should add it all up to understand what the total expenditure is for for clean up of the drains that can do that okay that's what I'm saying it's like it's divided in different buckets right yeah you have an eligible amount here right question I have for this this budget or this fund is we're projected to come in over $200,000 in excess of our current of our current budget this year and we budgeted $200,000 for Road repairs in our CIP so why are we spending CIP money on road repairs when we have $200,000 extra proposed in this budget that can only be used for Road repairs 80% of it why are we doing more rotor pairs here and less in CIP in 2020 which um um so are you following where do you see that the Let's see we code object code 64 we have Zer doar in there for for Road repairs this year when we have to use 80% of our Revenue we're projected to go $200,000 over our our adopted budget and we're pro and we're budgeting to use $200,000 of CIP money for Road repairs so why are we not using some of our CIT funds for the road repairs and reduce that in CIP where are you seeing we're going over by 200,000 and the summary yeah summary our total projected revenues is 460,000 and our total projected expens is 219,000 MHM so that would be 240,000 over that's total projected for this year this year yes yeah this is money that we we get from you know from the county it gets so it should track every year we should be get we should be growing yeah the the revenues the re revenues coming in are completely beyond our control it is that I believe it's a half cent um tax road tax gas tax excuse me as for why we had 400 projected this year I don't know that seems to be the anomaly perhaps that might be a uh catchup where they they they were holding our money for quite a few years and we were able to draw against it this could be a timing where we drew a big chunk all this year um and it was for prior year expenses that's my estimate but I can verify that for you even if it's a catchup we're still going to have $200,000 in excess Revenue sitting in a in a yeah so there's two typ there's two CIT funds There's an actual bank account which has a lot more money than this in it and then there's what you're allocated to spend by your plan so I think that's what this is is this shows what we actually got allocated to spend this year whereas the actual it's not over there's there's like $600,000 in that account M we're only allowed to use stuff for our budget that we qualify for each year if that makes any sense there I don't have that in the budget but there's a whole in the financials you'll see that schedule would we not be allowed to move some of that 600,000 to Road repairs to reduce our road repairs and CIP I follow the same that's going to be used for the storm drain phase 1B and two okay yeah I thought we banked this yes this was if you look at the yeah if you look at the draining Pro dra project that's where that money is coming from right right you directed it there yeah we have any other questions on the CIT fund no okay we did CIT we did police here police fund uh we did you Road fund think we have no Road fund is a formula with public works so it shouldn't have it's just portions of personnel portions of salaries Etc right so if we don't have any questions on that then and it is full it is full S I mean the there are employees that are attached to this it's not a portion of every employee it's two of those guys are attached to this okay correct okay sanation that one's done yep right so then I think that brings us to our last one which is Capital Improvements correct I don't I don't think there are any others that that our last one I have okay did it again all right so capital projects let's take a look think I lost you guys either there oh we're here oh there you are I'm trying to download the Excel sheet here I'm only looking at in my browser so I'll just open the floor for anybody that wants us get a question started um so what what do you have over here what's column K and L what is this reflecting I don't know PA if it's this is you okay chis you have that K and L on um code 60 it's where the descriptions are what does that mean you're looking at the uh Capital Improvement plan spreadsheet correct yes I am okay yeah k andl k is Grant funds and L is County funds um so as we get into these projects once Grant funds are made available to us or County funds are made available to us um they fill on that line that's not something that we budget for that's more on the accounting side money that comes from the county you said yeah much y okay Chris or maybe this is a question for Paul uh we're if we add up all of our expend ures in 2025 we allocated 400,000 for for this year but it shows Capital outlay as 601 so it looks like we're Capital alling $200,000 more than our expenditures for 2025 is that like a formula depending on our revenues how much we put into CIP along those lines yes so would that mean we have $200,000 that's unallocated for 2025 it's it's a much bigger number than it probably should have been to be honest like I would have probably brought brought it to 300 just for discussion purposes so you're you have a a live $300,000 that there's nothing assigned to it CIP yeah there's no historic you know it's just a big number but U yeah that's I said that earlier that we should have pointed that out the first Workshop that you're got a big chunk sitting there guys I'll uh start this off with I I had a sat in on a meeting with Chris today with the grant writer uh Chris is looking to go towards this fap Grant that's a uh State of Florida Recreation Grant initially his project was looking at uh matching funds just to redo the Tot Lot the project was going to be about 120,000 we would have to match 25% but it start much match 25% okay it starts to get where the best bang for our buck is if we and also speaking the grant riter our best success rate is if we maximize the size of our project so if we already have Grant matching fun funds and we can maximize our project me and Chris talked about could we do an all-encompassing project at the rec center Isa wants to replace the Tot Lot there's talk about pickle ball there's talk the other uh playground is also aging could we up that project from a $120,000 project to a $200,000 project if we get the grant we would you hopefully use pickle ball funds and a little bit of these unassigned funds to match it once you go to $200,000 it goes to a one to1 so we bring 200,000 the state gives us 200 we have 400,000 to build pickle ball new tot Lots new playground and as the thing that helps you get the grant is you have to have supporting structures things like picnic benches water fountains new new trash cans every one of those you place in the in the park gets you points that gets your chances of getting the grant better so the bigger the project we make the nicer the park park we build the better chance we get of getting the grants yeah I think that's a great use of pickle ball funds of $90,000 not just spending it on one project but reallocating it to a bigger project that redesigns almost our entire park we have to stop thinking about peac Milling this Village one project at a time and actually let designers do their job let Engineers do their job and design the park as our infrastructures aging throughout the entire park let them design it and build for one time not hey let's add a tennis court that could be a pickle ball that didn't think about the Tot Lot next to it they didn't think about there's a sand volleyball court let's sort of like the big idea and then from there just go and ask them exactly and and as the grant writer says you either go small with a $50,000 ask which there's no matching for that that size of Grant but what kind of project can you get for 50,000 or you maximize the money because the state looks at those maximum siiz projects as a bigger fruit to bite off then when you start getting in the middle in the weeds he sees his success rate go down so if we're already spending 90,000 on pickle ball I see upping that to a 200 for re oh we also have 35 I think it was 35 for recx Center improvements combining those two bringing it up to 200 and looking at this is a is an overall overhaul of our of our Park are you looking at the CIP when you yeah CIP so you have 990,000 in pickle ball and then you have uh recreational improvements playground upgrades we have is that where I saw we saw the other the other 30,000 so looking for it right now I know we talked about oh so because the yeah it's recreational improvements Rec Center upgrades we have 32 there so if you combine those two that we're supposed to spend in 2025 we have to bring in a little bit of the unallocated or sorry 2024 we have to bring a little bit of the unallocated funds as well we get an overall overhaul of our of our Park including pi ball including new tot Lots new playgrounds and it's designed in One Time by one designer so it's not let's peie me this at one time another yes to yes to that concept here's the other wrench that we have to throw into that though that parking situation over there needs to be addressed as all part of all that as well we already spent a big chunk of money having a firm come in and address our parking situation and gave us proposals for that and that uh there are impacts on the facility space itself with the parking so that's a critical thing right now we don't have adequate parking there and we're in violation of our own code so all of that has to be because some of that would un one thing could possibly undo the other we have some sidewalks that are going to have to be moved and or replaced I completely agree and it imp and it impacts everything you're saying Ryan I completely agree but I would hate to see in 2025 we put the parking in and then in 2026 2027 we decid to put a new playground in we drive over our brand new par that's exactly what I'm saying that's exactly what I'm saying we need to think we have to look at this all of one it's not just the improvements it's we have that as well and each one is going to impact the other one so no matter we we already have the parking funded so I think it's a good opportunity to look at at this as a whole project and do everything at the one at one time it's not going to stop our infrastructure from aging our playgrounds we're put in 2004 Issa this this month is ordering two slides that he has a special order from the manufacturer at for $8,000 because the slides are are they're not they're not made anymore they're not stocked well they need an overhaul and then we have that whole mulch situation where it's like we're putting mulch down which is a really odd thing to keep doing that's just to keep replacing it so I'm agreeing with you Ryan and then and upping the Annie one and saying all of that parking and the perimeter needs to be addressed because one is going to definitely impact the other and you're correct we'll be undoing things that we already did are you able to combine the parking with this idea we've already funded the parking that was allocated in 2023 so that that project is moving forward Chris mentioned to me today that that we're getting the the design documents back soon with that I would just say that maybe we put a hold on it until we know what we're doing with our we have to have the whole thing designed to all work together or we're and time time our construction projects so that way we're not putting new parking in and then driving construction vehicles over at a year later but for tonight's purposes I don't think we need to worry about all the individual amounts in there we just have to approve the the total amount for CIP that's in there because we're not committed to any of those things individually we're just approving the total amount is that correct Paul Chris correct yeah yes you'll fill in your projects as you choose exactly the capital Improvement plan the capital Improvement plan we adopted this it lives on its own the commission can at any time choose to move things around choose which projects to put in or projects to remove out um it's budget time what we're doing right now that would set up the funds that we can use to do that yeah so that's what we're really doing tonight is just approving your 6019 $62,000 right Chris correct and at what point will we go into the specifics of what falls into that well then Chris starts bringing things back to us yeah my recommendation would be once we get the budget passed um so looking at well most likely reasonably November would be the time to readdress the um CP y but wait because last year and during the budget season I remember we had to be so specific as to put pickable so are we saying now we don't need to do that and we just put a total amount yeah we we didn't have the CIP at that point so we actually had to enumerator we had to list the commission chose to list individual projects in the budget itself was give us the freedom just to go and revisit it anyway right this says here's your bucket of money and then at some point later outside of the budget process we can have those conversations about how to spend it but we already have a notified sort of discuss with um our village uh 2025 as as it currently stands as in the CIP correct so there is a draft the question I think is uh are we looking to change that drastically how are we how are we touching those items so I think I think the question to answer is we put a lot of work into the capital Improvement plan I'm planning it out for the next I think seven total of seven fiscal years um the question that we need to answer tonight is do we want to stick to something close to this or we want to throw another $200,000 at the CIP and then figure out how to use it later I think that's really I think we keep it at this we have 12 months to get a lot of this stuff done and as we all know things move more slowly than we would like them to some of these things are kind of in progress already but that 12 months will go by very quickly and I I think we could all we could always move money from the general fund correct Paul if we like spent all this 600 we spent all this money and we had time left in the calendar and we said look we Chris can get more done we can move money from the general fund correct not from the general fund from your Reserve fund from the reserve fund I'm sorry that's okay yeah so we can we can always do that yeah your C could be fully funded through reserves if you chose to and not use any of your annual income and that's really what this budget process is is what are you're going to do with this year's money and then at the end of it you decide what you're going to do with your savings with the access yep um because you could balance right now you're you're $239,000 away from a balanced budget you could reduce the CIP general fund contribution by that exact amount and you're balanced and then move that whatever you choose your total CIP to be out of reserves like if you that would be the easy way yeah to get it to the dollar but again that would be anticipating us getting everything done in that period of time in a perfect world and that's not how things ever work I so it really never goes anywhere yeah it's still reserves yeah exactly so we could make that decision at the end of this process too Paul correct exactly that's really what we do plan for that yeah yeah the last decision you all make is to identify if any reserves will go into that fund and then that sets your balance for the of all your reserves and then you use your 2575 split got it okay actually a good system i' say we keep it what it is for now I I agree but I I like that idea a lot Ryan in moving some money around and trying to make some improvements but um to the point of of getting to a balance budget I think that's probably what we do yeah no but Brian you bring up a very good point that we can just this thing needs to be thought through better so we're not tripping over ourselves and doing things one little project at a Time come up with a a plan for the whole thing and off we go y think that's the right move good with that y sounds like that's what we're doing Paul so you want me to make that adjust for the next so it's balanced and then you can push it back any way you want if you could do that yes that would be well do we have to do that now about because we're going to we will definitely make changes to this entire budget in these two hearings can't we do that at the end and just agree that we're going agree in theory we'll do it but don't balance it now because then we'll be unbalancing it at the next hearing when and at the first hearing when we find mistakes and make changes and we're just we'll be then we'll be undoing what we already did I see what you're saying so do we need a balanced budget at the hearing I think that's better Optics if nothing else that you at least start with that and you're it's the same math but it I think it's a better image for a budget draft to be balanced I mean we know in our heads how it how it would balance but if you leave it you know $239,000 yeah I see what you're saying so you're saying just semantics but I think it's an important so balancing would be your recommendation uh and removing that from the C CIP yeah so your draft will have all the corrections and and changes we've talked about for the these three meetings we'll we'll drop the CIP the balanced amount because there's nothing else we know about and then at at the first budget hearing you'll bring in any adjustments and we'll do those you know really quickly and uh and then your final budget tweak it yep that's how I see it so we're we're dropping the CIP to balance the budget and then we're moving from our reserves to the bring CIP back to where it is right now as we see it or where whatever level you choose yeah whatever we want it to be 150 100 200 yeah because we know that CIP is a rolling it's a rolling number goes we know we're not going to spend do all these projects this year right ongoing thing yeah exactly so as we need we it's kind of like a draw okay and I think that that's plan to to present it as balanced and then we can we can move it around in TW week if we need sir all right that sound good sounds good I had if we're done with all the Departments I had one thing I wanted to ask for does anyone else have any other the things they wanted to ask for in the budget I did it one point to go back and find my notes what what what were you let you guys go first does anyone else have anything I know I'm just going off without digging for my notes right now I know that one of the priorities that I had was just Road repairs so I know you brought it up Ryan it's an issue that's constantly brought up um we have money here yeah I know right so there's I think it's more prioritizing I think than necessarily asking for more money to be put in for specific projects yeah but it's prioritizing yeah that's a question I had for the CIP is you know we had 60,000 this year what did we spend that on what's our our plan because now we have 200,000 in a couple months and what are we gonna what what what are we going forward what is our plan what are we going to do have we identified projects how are we going to spend that money because it's desperately needed out there but what's the plan moving forward you this this year this fiscal we had a lot of we actually had a lot of projects going on excuse me a lot of it was cleanup next fiscal um relatively speaking we don't have as many projects um the other difference is the current fiscal we didn't pass the CP until very late in the year versus next fiscal we can hit the ground running on October 1 so we should be able to get a lot more this done a lot more quickly when it comes to priorities to the point of you know the roads being something that we need to touch base on um I I'd like to hear your thoughts as well kis I mean that you get it from public works right we have all the things that we see every day that needs to happen and you have a list already that been discussed what would be the top three things you wouldn't touch or you would prioritize based on what staff is telling you as well um to add to the conversation yeah we there's there are definitely roads here within the village that are worse than others um this is pretty bad the road in front of uh was it 9th I believe in front of your house Mr Mayor 111 is yeah 111 sorry that one's been repair pretty garly um yeah 114 yeah there are many buckets and I mean we could go so I think identifying that and defining what the priority is and understanding if we're y we have that you know um to your point I'm not being so scattered and looking at the big picture I mean does it does it make more sense to have $30,000 a year to go you know fixing little holes around the street or we go for a bigger project and Tackle uh at least the most urgent ones um so I think that's that would be at least for me great to know from staff from you what the recommendation would be so when we are talking about numbers then we can make it that's something I talked about months ago is using that 60,000 as a for a study to study our roads to let us know where the most endangered roads are what what damage we're doing to them so we can start prioritizing and using that 200 this year to implement and start fixing them yeah well I have two things that always concern me when we talk about repairing roads and one is when you were well one first let me just say that when you repair a road you often create a Speedway right and we have speeding problems in the village and um some of the things that we want to and intend to do for our traffic problems will involve some roads could involve some roads being in need of you know repairs after that I I would rather see us focus on some of the traffic issues first uh because you know it worries me when you fix these roads and people are flying down them and we're increasing the ability for people to speed through our village quite frankly so you've heard me say before that the tree roots for example are like Nature's speed bumps they are you know and I I want to see us focus on the solutions to our traffic woses maybe maybe that needs to be prioritized and then the other thing I was going to say about um uh Road just completely slipped my mind because I'm starving to death um I forget it'll come back up in my mind but so that concerns me is that we need to be addressing the we haven't where's the where where what are we going to do in fiscal 25 for traffic issues we have a line I mean I don't know if that would the calming measures um look we have the traffic study which is yeah that has to be done that's that's only step one right I mean that's not that's not putting any of the imple measures we we have 31,000 in CIP for traffic mitigation and that was I'm waiting for the manager to know that that Ila has been approved by the county for me to Y that is a discussion item because I think that's something as soon as that's approved by the county we need to start talking about that we need to start figuring out what we're going to do we have some money and we need to start figuring that out so that to me is like such a big such a priority for us but I I do think that I don't think a a lawyer would agree with you that a tree root is know and it's not it's not signed as one if that causes an accident I think we would lose that in court I think we need to start looking at safety as also our roads need to be safe to be navigated prioritizing and tweaking and changing and defining projects in the CIP is a conversation we can always have yeah so okay um what was on your list at Mac I just well one thing I'm just going to say that I would like to see us moving forward looking at alternative Revenue sources to get specific projects done we have things in the budget or things that that we could pay for by other means and we have things that aren't in the budget that we could raise money for I and I don't want to have this conversation now but I would like to see us have a serious conversation and in fiscal 25 be the year that we start looking at projects that we intend to get done by by asking people to pay for it for us at getting the foundation using their ability to raise money for specific projects they're going to get them with their Rec Center project and helping them identify the next thing that the village would like and I would also like the commission to take on some things that we would fund directly we all have the ability to go ask people for money we can ask you know for dog water stations and human water stations around the rec center we have the ability to to identify the businesses that would be likely to benefit from some kind of a sponsorship of those dog walkers and pet spas and veterinarians and all that good stuff and to identify where we would raise that money and go get the money and get things done outside of our budget because once we get this approved then it's Chris's job to go get this all done and he brings things back to us and and we do our you know approval kind of a thing but then we have the ability to go get things done oursel I think it's time for us to do that as a commission and use our foundation as well the other thing I want to remind you of is I would like to set our emergency Reserve to be uh 100% of our budget for this year and we have the ability to do that this year and I think we need to remember to do that uh and have that conversation once we see the final numbers in front of us and then there is one other ask that I would like to put in front of you guys and that is regarding Communications Communications in this Village still are subpar we have new gizmos and gadgets and still it to me it's not getting any better so I'll give you the perfect example the app we have this app that still very very few people are registered for um and there's not a lot of track now Chris will tell us that you know how many things are coming through it and that's all great but we have very few people registered for it so we there is an enormous amount of improvement and the way we can communicate by email we can communicate through the app certainly and I'm not suggesting that we stop any of that what I'm saying is I've always you've always heard me say we need an all of the above strategy to get to people in lots of different ways and in biscane park there is the unique opportunity because we are such a pedestrian Friendly Village and everybody to leave the village has to drive through the village to get out of it we only have certain number of entrances and exits that median signs work for us they're not sophisticated they're not digital they're not fancy they're not super modern but they are extremely effective and I think that needs to become part of our strategy to communicate on an ongoing basis and I would like to see us test something just test something I did a little bit of research on it by installing more of the Chris help me with the word or if heus here maybe he knows the word those um the things that are mounted in the ground I have it here in front of me somewhere uh like they are around the rec center on a post with the frame that you can put signage inside but specifically that are the size to hold the size of like an election campaign sign that kind of St they come in that standard size so instead of putting median signs sign signs on stakes in the median which look really crappy um to purchase a couple of these installed in concrete in the ground posts with the plastic holder with the plastic over the front of it the clear plastic like we have at the rec center but they're just in a different shape to use those signs that we could rotate through to get messages out to people I think they would be highly utilized and it's a great way to get information out to people very quickly about Village events sign up for our app things that are going on in the village all manner of things to drive people to our app to our website but I think in biscane park we would benefit from going a little old school in communication as part of a communication strategy that obviously includes all the digital and all the other things we have going on these I looked online just a rough price about $500 each includes shipping these that you that public works could install in the ground that signs could go in I would like to see us buy a couple of these five 10 drop in strategic places in the village on certain medians and start getting the message out that way as part of a communication strategy because guys another year has gone by and we've not gotten any better so another year is going to go by we're still not going to get better now you are goingon to see I guess I'm Brad's gonna tell me I'm get in trouble if I say that well I will say I'll just remind you that the last meeting Chris said if you guys have any ideas he said to me if I have any ideas about how to increase registration on the app that I could bring bring the idea to him you're going to see that here in a couple of days so um I would like to see us budget $3,000 to get a couple of these get them in place and see how this helps us to share messaging to our residents what say you where do are you are you talking about putting this as like a CIP like line item or just kind of just generally let's say putting put it in find a spot for it put it under Administration put under Public Works on probably probably under administration because that's where communication kind of stuff is the app and other things like that living Comm living Administration so put it there so 3,000 bucks get a couple of these and start using them and see how people respond to them yeah look and I'm not talking little eight and a half by 11 pieces of paper I'm talking about you then go out and have um what amounts to an election campaign sign made for Halloween event that is an evergreen thing you you save them and reuse them every year and just put a sticker on it to change the date but big bold messaging and people will get used to very quickly knowing oh that thing is there that permanent fixture has been added on the median on 10th Avenue at you know 118th Street and they know they see stuff there all the time they'll know to look there for stuff and when they drive by they'll notice oh the sign changed what's going on oh look they have the Halloween information up but used toote the other forms of communication as well I think it we need to not we need to stick that into the mix yeah I think like the more kind of analog so to speak forms of communication are are are worth trying I know Paul just brought up um you know some municipalities use like light pole kind of banners or Flags I know we got a couple of those that I've actually driven by very recently that I think need to be replaced um because they're they're old and worn you can barely read ones over by the bridge yeah yeah right the one here and then the one over by uh uh by griffing in the in the golf course that one's pretty beat um but look I don't think people even noticed they're there to be honest with you maybe I just catch them then I've mentioned them quite a few times at the medians I reported them on the app too that they're disrepair they're what I'm sorry they're in disrepair they like they're Sun eating there some that are missed the banners yes yeah I think in whatever way I the again the more kind of analog form of communication is is certainly worth trying um I I wouldn't have any issue with Alex that and be it the you know the board you're talking about Mac or maybe something that maybe we feel is effective maybe the banners I don't know something like that I be fine by me I don't I think it's worth discussing I think uh it's something that maybe the parks and Parkways board should kind of fledge out for us and identify where they want to put them get some Community involvement make sure that people want to put them on their meting I mean you know there are a lot of residents who oppose signed pollution in this Village and I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to force with I wouldn't want from this to no that Ryan is saying there's some people in the village that oppos to sing pollution and I raised my hand because I I'm one of those I wouldn't want to force from this Das to just throw them on some median that just just get randomly picked on you know well they high traffic is where we would pick places where a lot of people drive and walk I I could see since we already have them at the rec center using that as maybe a trial period we could start putting them the point is is spread spread it out away from the rec center it's get it elsewhere I understand but it's something that we could trial uh another idea is I don't know if you guys recently Drive broad Causeway over to Bal Harbor but they uh they have a mobile electric sign that they oh I hate those things we that to me looks trashy that looks just so trashy and not you might say but Mii Shores has been using it for many many years and it is a hub of information in Miami Shores Miami shes has commercial I know I've seen theirs too they look REM these other municipalities are very different than biscane Park we have no commercial we have no Neon Lights we don't have flashing lights we're a different animal alog together the lit up things are not in my opinion in keeping with this G Park they are with my and the causeway certainly sorry Mac I think for me I if you can share some of those examples as to how they would look I'm trying to picture where you describing and then it's a conversation that we can pick up on the next meeting as to where you are asking I'm not a huge fan of ADD and signs across and I also think communication still an issue in terms of management we can add another 10 platforms Chris can I share my screen and I'll show ver what I'm talking about I can show it to you right now um so we can continue add other platforms and other ways to do it but it we need to find a strategically a plan on how we communicate for for the different events um I'm not all for let's just put more ways to spread it out there it's about finding and the right mix of what we already have and maybe not utilize um so again I'm happy to see it I don't know if you're going to show it now or you want to can I can I share Chris Chris has to give me the ability to share there we go did it share there you go it's these and this is installed on a post in the ground so it's not garish it's not it's they come in different colors you can see there are lots of these out there I just pulled one up randomly you can see on my screen it's 500 bucks uh and then here is where you would swap out the inserts that advertise download our app sign up for our website here's a list of the meetings coming up here's the next event coming up to get so pedestrians who walk by and by the way QR codes like crazy so scan the QR code that's the other thing it's instant engagement because a lot of these things that we would slide in there could have a QR code will say scan for more information so it's just a a way to get the message out and I'm just saying I'm not suggesting litter the village with these things but put a couple in there so we could test it and see how people engage with them anybody want to support me on that or move on sorry say that again Paul was talking Mac sorry Ma just said what I was trying to say was yes is it a consensus to add this tonight look I I I in the broader form of communication in Improvement um in allocating some additional funds to try and get the message out I'd say that's fine I don't know about deciding on what we're going to be using but I to to get the word out and try to get more people involved I'd be fine with it put a couple thousand bucks in and then we can discuss how later um I don't know M for me I think I I'll pass just because again I think we need to nail down what we current have it's 1024 you can you can say no it's okay I'm no no hurt feelings Ryan sorry Mac it's a no for me okay it's a no who else has who else has good ideas I can piss on teasing I'm teasing what's that I've never had a good idea um all right well got uh about 10:30 here folks um do we have anything else we want to bring up before we uh bring this to a close for the evening so our next but yeah I was going to just catch up on what's to discuss how many more times do we meet so we can kind of two more two more actual budget hearings hearings the first I got a millage hearing on the third valuation third budget so Workshop 10 workshop and we would have then the two hearings that's it we have millage and the budget hearing both on Tuesday September 3rd yep that's this coming Tuesday and then we have the final one on Thursday September 26 that's right so at that the first Tuesday is not a workshop that's your first budget hearing these are right we're done with workshops now everything else is a hearing we have two hearings on the calendar perfect so at that so for the next meeting you're G to have a draft for us to see that is going to be cleaned up we're going to see all the numbers and where we stand to start conversation yes ma'am got it okay can we get that Draft before the meeting is that possible I'm imagining I can finish my notes by 8 o'clock tomorrow morning and we'll see the be great they know a holay weekend so they're going to want to do it Friday so I'm hoping to have it by close of business Friday you can Cate okay my request would be that before we all have it and we sit here and pour through it again because we're going to go through and we all have copious notes about all the changes we made can we please get a really tight clean version of this thing so we aren't let wondering what was left out what's wrong I want this to go smoother we had a postmortem after the budget season last year and I don't feel like this is going any better quite frankly I don't I don't see any Improvement in this system at all this year I don't see us getting better materials in a more timely fashion I think it may have gotten worse I'd have to kind of compare and I don't have time to do that but I would ask that whomever is in charge of this and Chris it's you please take the time to make sure we're getting a better product in front of us because we wouldn't have had three budget hearings if we had a better product in front of us and if we had department heads at all the meetings and by the way Chris said that was you know we can make that request but had they been here we would have gotten faster answers to all of our questions and we wouldn't be tripping over things we we we tripped over a mess of a system again this year and I want things to get better not be the same or possibly worse so please let's make this better for the first hearing because we shouldn't be making big substantive changes at the hearings and catching mistakes that's my lecture agreed so right so we'll have I can't hear you verl um I agree with you I'm saying next uh draft should be clean and a good way for us to get started y all right okay right thank you very much