e e e e spe never come on almost have six all right okay all right so I have six o'clock are we recording okay great all right so let's uh call our special Commission meeting TOS today's Monday March 18 6 o' here for our varians hearing uh Madam cler could you please call the rooll for us mayor gr here vice mayor Kennedy here here Gonzalez commissioner Holland Mr Mayor you have a quum wonderful can we do the Pledge of Allegiance please Mr Mayor let the record reflect that commissioner Holland has joined the meeting thank you m CL got it yeah hey Jonathan point of order if you don't mind um we don't have additions deletions and withdrawals on in like a regular commission meeting but I do want to make a motion to amend the agenda there's some um organizational things on here that need to be addressed okay sure I'm going to make a motion that we the way the hearings are shown on the agenda with public comment afterwards is not exactly appropriate we should have these two separate hearings which have now been separated out and um I talked to Brad about it today he asked me to make a motion to get it fixed now at the top of the meeting and I'll let him explain exactly what he wants to have happen perfect got up the mic there we good evening mayor vice mayor and Commissioners um so essentially the procedure for the these are two separate and distinct hearings the matters that are before you for a quasi judicial um determination um and I'll I'll explain that to everybody in the group what that means and what the procedures and rules are but from a procedural standpoint what will happen is the applicant will present their case when the appropriate time is um after the applicant has um you you have a right to question you being the commission can ask questions of the applicant if if you so choose CH and you believe they're appropriate um after the applicant has had a chance to go and make their case for the request for variance you would then open it up to public comment we would open it up and and I'll I'll lead I'll lead yall through this but um you basically we will ask anybody that is um for the granting of the variants will go first anybody opposed they will they will go second and then procedurally what would happen and and again the commission has a right to ask questions of any member of the public that decides to speak on either topic um or either finding I should say and then we would afford the applicant a chance to speak on whatever the public has uh commented on on their public comment again you'll be able to ask the applicant questions that are relevant to the matters at which point um I'll give you a brief summation of what the findings need to be and what the law is as it relates to your findings and you will deliberate and then somebody will make a um one of the commission members will make a vote either to approve or deny there'll be a second and then you take a vote okay I think the the issue we came with the public comment being at the end the way the agenda reads the public comment is scheduled to be at the end of all the Quasi judicial hearings there has to be a public comment for each separate so it will be read into each of these and and it's in the procedures the way I'll set them out in guide you all and guide the public they'll have an opportunity to do so okay perfect so then just that the agenda as is presented I like to amend the agenda or make a motion to amend the agenda to separate the hearings the way right described it to do what he said do what he said okay we have a motion do we have a second second that okay all in favor I okay happen at home so I guess I gotta stay here more often yeah you just gota take it while you can get it okay so having amended our procedures to to align with what the village attorney has recommended um Mr attorney do you want to go ahead and get us into the first hearing with your I do have something I just need to address the commission once once I announce the uh matter okay so this is a variance request from the applicant of Max lber and ABY lur lber excuse me at 11328 Northeast 7th Avenue biscane Park Florida uh the variance request is the current swimming pool setback and and and which reads on the agenda and on their request um a requirement is 10 ft and the applicant seeking approval to reduce the setback to a 5T which is a rear property setback um which leads me to what I just need to inform you all in essence what um the applicant put on their initial application as far as what they were looking for as to the setback is not correct they were not looking for a rear setback they were looking for a front side setback which is what essentially the uh the board had uh Grant or recommended a granting um so there is an issue with public notice the public notice went out um indicating that this was a rear setback from 10t to 5et as was indicated on the publish public notice as well as the notices that went out to the 500 foot residence Property Owners so it's um just everybody all the board oh excuse me the commission members are aware it's been a long day um that the public notice that's gone out is is defective in the sense that it did not um inform the public exactly what the nature of the variance was so what what what's the recommendation in this case well the recommendation that I would have is that it would be appropriate at this point to defer it so that the public is properly informed as to what the nature of the variance is if if um if uh a member of the public were to contest um their understanding as to what the what the variance was for and if you had somebody to come in and say well you know I was I had no issue with a rear setback going from 10t to 5 feet but if they're going a front side setback that has somehow affects my property or affects um the Qui joyment of my property they would have a my opinion a valid argument to contest um if they were to contest it we'd have to come back and do it all over again anymore I mean it we we could take the position that it was sufficient notice if they were to take it to court and go and appeal it to the Circuit Court my opinion is that the court would kick it back and have us redo it but the way that it's been described have affected the the people that were noticed the residences the actual residents that were they were noticed the 500 feet residents as well as the publication of the notice of this public hearing was noticed as I've just read it setback requirement is 10 feet and the applant seeking an approval to reduce the setback to 5 feet in essence the and I know Gage can correct me if I'm wrong the front side set but back is a 30 foot setb and I believe what the board approved or what they recommended is a um a a 24 foot setback so six feet into that setback that did I say that right Dage sort of kind of into the 24 feet into the I I go from the you and I go from the opposite direction so yes okay okay so um so you would suggest that this gets I I I understand that it's been that the property owners have been waiting for a while but that would be my suggestion due to the notice and was it properly noted to them that this was incorrectly labeled they would have to ask staff this all just came about today didn't it very quickly then if if so this is done by motion obviously me a motion to defer or would we need a motion to move forward or just procedurally just either move forward or we move to defer correct uh you can you certainly have the the ability to move on regardless advice coun okay well given the serious nature of this and that our attorney advised us not to do it and that we could be challenged and then the homeowner could find themselves in a worst situation I'm going to make a motion to defer this so it can be properly noticed so none of us have any problems after the fact I don't know Jonathan if you want to recognize Max and let him talk yeah certainly yeah of course please thank you um just a couple pieces of uh context that I think are helpful um it is can you just give us your name and address please Max lber 11328 Northeast 7th Avenue uh the house is a corner lot house there's no proper there's no home on one side of the home uh where we have decided to ask for the variance we're asking for the variance in one direction towards a uh towards this green median right here it's not going towards the direction of a home we are upholding the proper squ uh yardage or footage to the only property adjacent to the home so we're asking for a variance in One Direction it's not in the direction of anybody's property if I may we understand that it's the it's the way that the the me this meeting was noticed to advise the public of what's going on sure it was improperly wasn't improperly noticed it was it was it was noticed to match the description that's on the your request sure but the description is wrong it says rear setback it's not the rear setback it's the side front setback okay and it's not 10 feet it's a 30-foot setback so the language of the public notice is not reflecting what you're here to ask us for tonight and that's what makes it so I have I have um just a quick question um so if if we were to proceed because I I understand what he's saying that there is no home in the direction he's going um what would happen um If This Were contested because at the end of the day you know if he's going to do something and we approve it and then he does it and then somebody does contest it right then what would happen to whatever it is that he's going to build or what would happen if somebody were to contest it that the manner in which they would contest they would file a RIT with the Circuit Court um if the Circuit Court agrees that the notice was defective and that they there's some harm by the property owner or that that's contesting then what the court would do um would be to remand it back to the village for the village to to have a conduct a new hearing from scratch and um make a determination as to whether or not to Grant or deny the application with that particular resident or residents that made the claim to have an opportunity to be so there so there's the potential that that variance may not be granted if there was a situation and then if he install what is it a pool that you're installing right so he installs a pool now and the variance doesn't go through after the build then what then he's in big so so you know what I'm trying to say is you know I understand listen believe me I get where where you're at but I think that for your own protection right um it's probably in your best interest that this is deferred and it's actually noticed properly so that you don't don't run into a situation where something like this can come back and bite you um because at the end of the day you know if somebody does you know contested or whatever then then then you're going to be in and you build and then then what are you going to do I mean you're going to unbuild you're GNA it's an awkward thing for you and we're also knowingly conducting a public meeting that we all know to not be noticed properly so that's another that's that's a problem for us and then there's a problem for you as well so we're not saying we're talking about denying your request understood it's simply be to push it forward the whatever amount of time it will take to R notice the meeting properly and we all have an there have been Communications with all of us about getting this these hearings to happen as quickly as we can because we know you and another Resident are trying to move forward with projects that's why we called a special meeting just for you um so we have an interest in hurrying this along for you as well it's been a really long process I know I know it's kind of a moot point but we were on two agendas that we weren't actually on we were told to come we weren't on the actual agenda and we were finally dealt with now we're going through this process it seems like done a lot wrong we're just been waiting and we've paid money so that's what my question was Mr lover if you don't mind so my question was more about so I just want to understand at what point it was clear that it was a rear setback versus a side front setback when did we figure this out well from I I had an opportunity to watch the the um January 8th um pnz board meeting and from what I could hear there I I didn't hear them mention and I might have missed it there were a couple of times where the sound wasn't very good it kind of goes in and out um I didn't hear any discussion about the fact that the application was moving for the decrease in the 10 foot um but ultimately what was granted was a or was approved was a a side front set back so there had to be some discussion because that's not what was on the application but it's clearly what's on the drawings and and on the on the schematics that were attached that they reviewed so the question is not to point fingers it's just to improve the process I mean I am in a corner lot I understand um what the purpose of what you're trying to do I understand you don't have no one on the other side but we do have to follow proper process and the idea is not to this we learn from this so it doesn't doesn't happen again we need to make sure that in the future and and again Chris I don't know which who has responsibility over this we can catch this so you can notify it correctly and so today you show up and you would have had um the hearing as you were expecting yeah understood I mean my concern is it's been three months to get to this point right that's what I was gonna ask how long it's gonna be for the next one yeah that's what I was going to ask so what is the quickest the quickest that we can turn this around if I may if I may so and the clerk and I were just talk talking about that so the quickest we need we need a minimum of 10 days to give notice to the all the 500 foot Property Owners is that the April meeting we can get this done on the April 2nd meeting the only thing I need is the application does say what we noticed so I need the application to be updated rised or whatever it be br does the application does not have to go back before the board because they so even though they approved it with that heading incorrect on it it doesn't have to go back to them no but I would suggest just for the record sake that the applicant just file an amended application just um in the top sentence where it says that where you have to um assert what what variant you're looking for you know that section I'm talking about they have a meeting directly after this meeting tonight could Gage walk it on to the agenda and push it back through tonight it doesn't need to go back before the board because they've already approved approved it it's just so the record is clear just to change exactly what the what they're seeking what variants they're seeking okay so short answer is show Mr lber what I'm talking okay so you'll get some direction and and the short answer to your question is in two in two weeks it will come back before us on our regular commission a regular commission we're going to do it on April 2nd is that what we should plan prior to our meeting well we have uh mayor Cava here prior and then we start at six with her but we can get it on that agenda okay you can put it on that agenda and somebody can make a motion to hear it first to move it up okay so if we still have uh the motion pending by the vice mayor I'll second the motion to defer to that meeting yeah and call for a favor and vote all in favor I can I just ask one more question sorry to interrupt um can we put something on that notice to the neighbors that says that this was incorrect so they don't think we're doing two projects on the same property we we can put something on the notice Maybe as a rehearing or something of that notice sure okay thank you sure yeah I just want I don't want them to think the project is this multi okay can you make sure that you're in the office at 9:00 am in the morning to yes or can't I'm traveling tomorrow I need the application updated can it be done over contractor my contractor do it that's fine I just I mean you want to gauge I they could do it no actually they can't do it tonight it's not on the agendas have the contractor do it then that's there's nothing to vote on they just need to amend the they just have to amend the application where it says what variants they're they're seeking so it's consistent with what you all approved right there's nothing to vote you've already previously approved it so Bradley but didn't you just say it didn't to go to can I have staff take him over to the office now and correct the is Mr lber yes is that fine with you yeah absolutely thank you thank you Doran okay great thank you thank you for your patience just to confirm we had consensus vote on that thank you okay okay um all right so um Brad if you would uh then go ahead take us into the second hearings and walk us through the procedure please yes I will so this is um the second request for a variance for this evening it's an applicant um purpose holding LLC location 11095 Griffin Boulevard biscan Florida the applicant is requesting to install two manual driveway rolling gates for a variance of chapter 11.6.1 um B which is the location of the fence in the front yard and if I may start with the process please Commissioners and and members of the public this is a w judicial hearing this hearing will be conducted by The Village commission who will hear testimony from the applicant and then from the public clerk will swear in all Witnesses before they speak each person who speaks should State their name and whether they have been sworn in the material in in the commissioner's agenda package will be part of the record after the applicant has testified and presented their evidence if if any to present the hearing will be open to members of the public to speak and support for and against I'm Excuse in support of or against the application for the variance Village commission may set reasonable time limits for members of the public speak um members of the public may choose to be sworn in if they so choose to you do not have to be sworn in if you're a member of the public if a member of the public chooses not to be sworn in the village commission may consider that however as a factor in evaluating the speaker cont comments um at this time Mr Mayor I would just ask if the if um commission wants to put any time limit on the public comment I would think public comment would be limited to our normal public comment rules if there's uh some consensus on that all good yes okay done then after the members of the public speak the applicant again will have an opportunity to make any comments um based on whatever the public comments were made this point we're I would ask the mayor and vice mayor and the commissioners to make any um quasa judicial disclosures if any commissioner has any exp part A contacts that are not part of the present record those contacts need to be verbally disclosed at this time and what I would ask you to do is give the the best of your ability the date the um of the contact who you had contact with and a very brief summary of the nature of that contact so I will ask this commission if there are any public disclosures to be made with regards to the variance um at 109 1195 I do um I spoke with um the manager and I spoke with uh I believe two uh staff members that were there at the time on the phone I'm not sure who they were Grace who were who was there when we spoke about this um that was Daren and Denisha and then yesterday I had a conversation well with uh with the resident uh in regards to his variance I also would like to make a disclosure so I um was contacted by the applicant um Mr Fidel on March 10th um to talk about the issue then I forward uh sort of the summary of this to our chief of police to get his point of view to which he provided a very short feedback um that I'll read out loud I'll trve by the location to view and get understanding of the concern I would also look at the call of how many calls have been received from the resident this was in my request to understand if you have placed um some sort of a complaint with the police department on your safety concerns um which I received back um from the chief uh good afternoon commissioner uh Amsler this is on March 13th I went to the property to visualize the resident concerns upon my arrival I met with Mr Simon and we discussed his concerns regarding vehicles and pedestrians cutting through his driveway I agree with Mr Simon that vehicles or pedestrians using his driveways to cut through his property is a safety concern when anyone is in the front yard a vehicle entering his driveway to cut through will not have enough time to stop if anyone is in front of in the front yard I inform Mr Simon that the police department will monitor watch order to prevent vehicles or pedestrians traffic cutting through this his property I checked our um our police records and the police department had only received one call and the police did not observe any violations at the time that they were there nonetheless I did observe traffic on Griffin Boulevard backing up past the resident's home that may contribute to vehicular traffic using his drivewood as a cut through that will that would create hazardous conditions if you have any questions let me so that was the sum of my conversation um we spoke the following day so I called you on March 14th and we talked about it I also want to disclose an email that I received from Janie Anderson um stating something that was actually not related it had to do um with uh that I I don't even have to disclose but so that's not considering in my vo in tonight and that's about it so just to piggyback off that I had received the same email um from the same resident that will not be part of the consideration for the variant request the other uh disclosure that I have is I spoke with the chair of the the planning board Gage Haron uh we talked about just kind of generally the process and and the variants being requested and and what it had gone through with the the board um and that was on March 15 uh so that was the additional disclosure that I nothing that hasn't already uh been covered saw email and Bradley's response other than that um can I disclose that I knew the former owner and that he never complained about this but I understand times have changed I think we all pretty much have seen that so I didn't know that this was an issue I'm curious to hear more about okay I got the email from Janie as well it was completely unrelated to the case but it was regarding the property so I'll acknowledge that I got the email but it has nothing to do with tonight's discussion um I spoke with Gage about it very briefly when I first looked at the agenda I could not find the board's vote on this when they discuss when they approve or deny a variance request um I called Gage and had a conversation about that but then I did see it later on this afternoon so either it was added or I missed it I'm not certain what happened there um and Simon contacted me by email to discuss it as well he discussed uh he wanted to discuss a trespassing issue at his property this was before we knew about this hearing when I connected the dots that had involved a property with a variance request I contacted him and let him know that best practices for Commissioners are not to discuss variances with the property owner before the hearing so I then denied the phone call uh just I for I did forget that I did speak to the chief as well um but I did also ask Bradley about uh having a convers with Simon and Bradley said it was perfectly fine just nyi as long as you make public disclosure you can speak to the applicant are there any other disclosures Point okay with that being said just just to address the email that youve all addressed um to so we're clear and the records clear and and you all saw my communication with regards to that email um Miss Anderson's email as as you've correctly said is is not relevant to the matters for you you you should not and cannot legally consider consider um what was contained in that email when determining whether or not to Grant or deny um variance in this case um The Village code delineates the criteria for granting a variance and essentially the commission commission must consider the nature of the proposed use of the land and the existing character of the land and the buildings in the vicinity and a variance may not be approved unless the commission finds four things if there are special circumstances or conditions affecting the property which are such that the strict application of the provisions of this chapter will deprive the applicant of the reasonable use of his land or her land that the variance is uh necessary for the preservation and enjoyment of a substantial property right of of the petitioner and that the gr the granting of the variants will not be detrimental to the public welfare or be injurious to other property in the territory in which the property is situated and that the variance proposed is the minimum variance which makes possible the reasonable use of the property um so to be moving on from there um I also advise you commissioners that your decision at the conclusion of this hearing must be based upon competent substantial evidence related to the code that I have just read to you um and there cannot you cannot make generalized oppositions or any generalized decision based on uh that's not based on any facts that you hear during this quasa judicial hearing um at this all persons are going to be Witnesses in this matter shortly I'm going to ask you to raise your right hand so the clerk can swear you in as well as the applicant himself um if there are any members of the public who wish to be heard um you will be provided time before the close of the hearing to speak you may choose to be sworn in as I said earlier and if you are then you're also can may be cross-examined or questioned by the by the Commissioners um but you do not have to be sworn um if you're a member of the public who wishes to speak on this matter and wishes to be sworn in please raise your right hand right now um the applicant and any witnesses that the appon has also raised their right hands mam CL please swear in the individuals that have their hand you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God and your answer is it's yes thank you put your hands down okay at this point if the applicant will state their name the address for the record and present any testimony or witnesses that you'd like to offer in support of your application good afternoon my name is Simon Fidel 11095 Griffin Boulevard uh thank you guys for taking the time to to meet up and hear this variance uh um we're handing I I brought these I brought these papers they mostly contain images just so that we all kind of understand I guess the entrances of the of the home the driveway um it is situated on Griffin Boulevard obviously with 111th Street um I I do know that there's four points to the variants that you mentioned so I do address them on the first page I don't know if you want me to go through them or you guys want to take a moment to read it whatever you it's your presentation oh it's my presentation okay I'll go through it then yeah so basically the special circumstance is that there's there's approximately 3 3,300 cars passing through according to dot passing through Griffin Boulevard um I guess it's when this rule was created it was definitely wasn't 3,300 vehicles um and the layout of our of my driveway is connects Griffin with 111th so when the traffic backs up usually surprisingly Mondays it doesn't back up I I'm not sure why I guess people have off but many other days it backs up and people decide to take a shortcut right through the driveway um and most of my yardage my green area is right in the front like in the backyard we have the pool but we like to play soccer and football out front that's what I'm what I'm my main concern is that that there's kids outside and it's definitely it's definitely a hazard and there is a special circumstance um I do have I know I only called law enforcement once uh but I do have multiple Witnesses I also have uh I also know that it was noted on a previous pnz board uh one of the one of the members did mention that he feels bad for my property because of the ongoing trespass issue and that's definitely that's on record um the second issue or the second the second variance point would be preservation and enjoyment of substantial property rights and I think I'm not I'm not an attorney but I think that we do have property rights and that includes the right the right of privacy and the right of U utilization of the main green uh lawn area in our property without having that fear of harm or intrusion and the third point is that it's not detrimental to Public Welfare I think it's actually the opposite I think it actually would would help the the the 100 11th Street because when people cross through through my home they don't they don't stop and then incorporate on to 111th they just fly by so I think and also the setback that I'm proposing for my fences from the street is about 18 to 21 feet so whenever you want to go in in through the gates you wouldn't be obstructing any any traffic you would be perfectly able to park your car on in between the street and the gate um the fourth and last point is the minimum variance I think that's a minimum variance considering that we've tried signage that says no through no through traffic and that didn't work and also law enforcement was advised of the issue and they could put a watch order but it's not I don't think that's something sustainable and something that's realistic to have a police parked outside your house monitoring whether people are cutting through or not there's a lot of homes here and that's just it's just not fair it's not it's not reasonable or sustainable um I did remove that sign because I was advised that by the pnz board that it was not with it doesn't fall within code basically that I wasn't allowed to have the sign basically so I did have to take that sign off so now I have cones there curently um and yeah so the rest the rest of the pages just kind of outlined the proposition and from about page page 7 to 10 it just kind of display the entrances and page nine n and 10 show some of the issues because it's not just vehicle so it's also pedestrians passing by usually on bikes a lot of times they pass by on their bikes um and they always look when the traffic stops there they're always looking inside the property when people are just sitting on the street waiting for traffic to move they're just staring inside at our lawn while we're playing so that's kind of a little creepy especially with kids I don't know um but yeah I don't know if there's any clarification as to the issue that I may anyone may need so is that your presentation I'm not suggesting it shouldn't be I'm just asking I would say yeah that's okay I think it encompasses it and I would just ask the commissioner if you have any questions for the applicant I just have a quick question that that driveway sign that that driveway sign was there for years that was like I'm assuming the the previous owner sign right that you just left up correct it was there since I moved there eight years ago so it's been there a long time um I'm surprised uh you know that they had you had to take it down after eight years nobody saw it for eight years but anyway it's a different story um okay that's that's all I wanted to ask and um Mr Mayor if the um packet that's been provided by the applicant you could direct that make be be part of the record thank you of course okay I have a question so clearly the the previous owner as you referred had similar issues right um do you know of any variance being requested before on the property no mentioned I just want to make sure I understood correctly so what you're saying is you're you're having vehicles drive through your your driveway when we have traffic up there correct did you also say that you're having people ride their bikes through now and walk through that area as well that's what you're experiencing too people on bikes okay and in this in one of these images here um excuse me it looks like there's some kind of a framework in place already for a gate is that right did you have a gate there before is that at the setback line that you're proposing here today now how about how long ago was that that you put that in approximately did you put up yeah did you put up the gates initially December how long were they up before you had to take them down I just approx I'm not looking for okay did and did you notice any discernable differences between traffic that you're seeing foot and vehicle traffic before and after the gate went up and the the gate that you're proposing is so basically what you're asking to do is put the same gate back up okay it's a manual gate it doesn't have an electronic feature or anything you don't click a button it doesn't open it's not like a driveway is it so so you would what you're proposing then is you would pull in You' get out of the vehicle you'd open the gate pull in and then get out and close it again and that's both it's on on that's the same thing on both entrances okay okay um that makes me wonder and let me look at the drawing so if you're pulling out and you have to close it you have space I mean you're in Griffin taking that it's the busiest Street and you're pulling out to close your gate where do you where do you have enough space for your car to wait while traffic continues okay so you're not obstructing traffic in any way okay wait to clarify the gate doesn't open out it slides right okay so it doesn't open out it's no but I'm saying because he would have to pull out and then the gate he has to get out of his car leave his car here to close it I'm wondering what happens with his car where is okay yeah right got yeah you can see the sliding mechanism in one of the photographs you can see how may I Jonathan may I okay uh couple of questions for you Simon um why well to follow up to your earlier comment why would you not make it an automatic gate so you don't have to get out of your car I'm just curious recognize it yeah yeah electric and all that it doesn't make a difference that's tonight I'm just kind of curious okay um so how long have you and your family lived in the home when did you buy it oh so you don't live in the home yet oh I see I'm sorry I thought you lived in the home I got confused because it says the property owner is an LLC and then you were your name was attached to it I got confed so you're not living there yet um so well then it makes my next question kind of awkward because I was going to ask you since you've lived there how many instances there have been how many police reports there you have made how many calls to code to the Village to anyone uh to report that there's an issue but you're not living there to report it so I'm not sure how relevant the question is now because you're not really living there you're not staying overnight at the house yet okay so you're just doing work on the house before you move in uhhuh yeah yeah so you've only called the police one time okay um because you said in your description I don't know if it was in this one we got two different versions of your four-point response there was one that was the official one that went through pnz that came to us and then another one and I'm not certain if this is the same it might be three different versions of it um but you use the word constant to describe it you said it's a constant problem and you respond to that you mean because you when I read your language I'm like oh it's a constant thing happening but now I only know about one police report and you haven't moved in yet so how constant is this problem really okay well we don't know if it's a long-standing issue because the former owners aren't here to testify that they had a problem and I don't think that sign is an indication that there was a problem there are people that put no trespassing signs on their property all the time just to keep people out I've listen having lived I know we're gonna have public comment and people are going to be able to address it which is great so but the former owners aren't here to tell us about their problems with it um I'm just trying to get a I'm trying to quantify this somehow you know it doesn't seem to be very Quantified for us and when I read your description it was about this constant problem and then you talked about it in one place that it is happening and then in another place you talked about that it could happen or it would happen if you didn't put the gate up so it sounded like in some ways you're saying it's a real problem and it's serious and then in other places you're saying it might be a problem in in the future so I was trying to quantify it somehow to know if this is like a constant stream of cars flying through there but you're not living there yet so it's hard for us to do that I guess okay yeah well and in that regard people pull in driveways all the time to turn around people pull in my driveway to turn around you know on a not infrequent basis so it happens someone can pull in anyone's driveway when they're out there playing in the driveway um uh um okay so we'll have this discussion later when we discuss it but a variance is kind of like the last resort when everything else has been done here is one thing I see when I look at the pictures and I walk a lot so I've walked past that property many times it's a lovely home by the way it's like magnificent home that you got in biscane park so take good care of it please we like that house um uh the driveway uh is asphalt it doesn't look like a driveway and I can imagine that people heading uh North on Griffin or whichever direction it is down there would approach knowing they wanted to turn on 11th would see that opening and might think it's a street because it's asphalt so you're traveling on an asphalt Street and you're turning onto an asphalt Street or turning into an asphalt driveway do you have plans to replace that driveway have you considered it because variance is the last resort and I have to think that if that driveway were a different material it it wouldn't look so much like a street is my point okay um and then I wanted to ask about the photo I was confused to I wasn't sure if you photoshopped the gate in I drove by and I saw post and what appeared to be a railing um and I guess that's it thanks just one additional question for you on the construction of the gate um it's whatever page six um is all aluminum is it's kind of in that shutter style or are you able to see through it or does it okay trying to get a trying to visualize what it would look like there even the cross-sections it's all aluminum that's not like wood okay okay but we're we would be here to approve only the fact that a gate exists it would still have to go through the planning board and be approved for materials and all that we're not in the job of approving design or materials or anything we have a board that would do that for us yeah from us it's a yes or or no so I don't have any other questions any John did you have no I have another question okay thank um just uh in terms of dates I just wanted to understand on the attachments there is an application for a variance that it's been signed by the applicant and there is no planning zoning Board review um section completed but then there is an additional page where it's just the bottom with the um boards review and approval so why is that discrepancy because it was in two pages and when when it uploaded in granus it did page one and then page two was down at the bottom so I just went and reattached it to okay and can you double check for me so I understand the application was on the 15th of February and then the planning design and review board submitt their comments when I just want to understand that February 26 okay so February 26 okay so is it nor and this I'm talking I'm asking process here is it normal that after it's been reviewed um so I don't have a video attached to this or the date to follow throughs trying to look it through the video to see if I can understand the conversations that happened Gage um is there at any time a summary on the reasons why variance is it's move forward for recommendation or it's move forward to be denied and it's included or this is the procedure is a no yes and that's it um I guess the question is are we missing comments from the board in terms of the reason why this is recommended or not so there may be there there are occasions where the board can make recommendation they could approve a variance with certain restrictions or conditions if they were to do that they would have to list them on their for instance if it was the size of the fence or okay whatever it might be the color of the fence or just whatever it might be so but with regards to any conversations that the that the board may have had yeah we have Gage is here when it's time for comment he can we can ask okay can he can speak to the to the uh to the request for the applicant or by the applicant excuse me and then you'll have an opportunity to question him what's took place at pnz okay so great because my my question and I guess we'll get to address that later and you tell me if not but um is more in regards of this minimum requirement uh are there recommendations if it's not a gate I'm sorry that's of course my phone um that would not you know necessarily be this gate what other things could be done I think commissioner Kennedy brought up a couple things so is there anything else that could be thought for you mean to close it off with vegetation to hedge that in connect it through so close the entrance of graen that was one of the recommendations at uh trees you were saying or change the the layout of the driveway e I know we have a few folks that have put their hands up that want to provide public comment so if there's nothing further for your presentation I'd like to move us into that section so we can get they'll have an opportunity to respond to any public comment thank you very much so um go ahead so if there's anyone else present in the public as members of the public that uh wish to speak in support of the application you may come forward to the podium please identify yourself um state your name address and whether you've been sworn in or not and these are for people who were in support the application Mr Mr Mayor just a quick question does the same time limit per usual meeting three minutes before you get started the uh so the public comment requirements are provide us your name your address and then uh we have three minutes for you to provide us your comment m no e down anybody else in support it B thank you thanks there you go e e than you thank you just make sure Mr manager can we make sure that mic is is on I don't know if it's if it's it's just not no say I didn't think so no it happens a lot there we go thank you very much all right I'm Isabel denz and uh my address is 764 norti 111 I'm Miss neighbor I don't know Simon but I knew the previous owners I'm here since 2008 it was an issue that's why you put Des sign uh but I don't know how many times I'm just here to say I'm supportive the gate looks good actually I think it's it upgrades the uh uh uh the biscan park even looks nice uh so I'm here to say I'm supportive uh of it thank you thank you you have Jeff Robinson's old house on 11th Miss did you buy the house from Jeff Robert that's the house anybody else wish to speak in support of the happened Jeffrey Jones 11725 Griffin we live on the North End of Griffin and we're experiencing the same increase in traffic um Miami Country Day just announced they're going to expand their population by 20% a vast majority of the people in this room would stand up here and talk about traffic culling we want to redirect traffic we want to put in speed bumps we want to add stop signs and there's going to be people standing up here saying we don't need Gates it's the same issue it's a safety issue the other question I have for the attorney is if this gentleman's denied and next week somebody goes rolling through his front yard and God forbid they have an accident what's the liability to the Village thank you thank you any no for the procedure I was going to say we move on from in support no from in support to is there anybody else in support of the applicant if if you are in support so we need you to come up to the podium if you're going to we're doing people in support you don't just just remember um you want if I may Mr Mayor yeah please whoever's in support if you can maybe line up along behind the person that's behind the podium now so that we know then I don't have to keep on asking who's in support move a little Qui there may be people here in support that don't want to talk I was just gonna say we're not ordering you to speak that want to speak okay this isn't Russia right okay is this Russia only if you want to speak just remember Mar Loreno 720 Northeast 112th Street I am in support big support I've been on griefing waiting to make a turn on 111 and I have seen cars driving through your uh you know lawn and not only in griffing I think if anyone here feels unsafe we should be able to put a gate I live alone in my house and many times I'm afraid at night I see some people walking by that I don't feel safe if I want to put away again I pay my taxes I'm a good citizen why why is the city not going to let me put a gate you go to cor Gables look at those beautiful homes they have Gates why we gonna do it here who who said no thank you thank you sorry Martha I'm sorry I didn't catch your address2 720 Northeast 112 Street Mata Lorenzo thank you hi my name is Iris Lopez 111 23 Griffin Boulevard and I completely support I also like the idea of speed bumps the traffic is horrific and I also get up in the morning and pick up bottles and pick up garbage well the gate is not going to help that situation but I would feel more protected with the gate obviously in good taste as we live in in in uh in B Gan Park and we love where we live and we love what it all the beauty and everything that it um it comes with thank you thank you hi my name is Katie Murphy I also live at 1153 Griffin Boulevard um I'm a personal injury plaintiffs attorney litigation attorney the way that people drive through our property is dangerous I and I'm not going to see my 10-month-old daughter get run over and killed by a car because we're not allowed to put gates up because people don't like the way that they look um there's constantly garbage all over our lawn constantly I'm going through picking up garbage I also have called the police many many times there's been accidents by people hit rear ending us trying to pull into our driveway because everyone's in a rush to get to the light it's just it's really dangerous and I don't think that the the the view of the the people who live in bis Gan Park and what they think should you know a gate should look like or someone's home should look like I don't think that should have precedence over someone's safety and I know that's not going to have presence over my daughter's safety so whatever it takes I'm going to make that happen thank you that that concludes the individuals that are in support that wish to speak any any individuals that are um opposed would like to speak please line up by the podium speak no I'll speak um kind of changed my thinking about this a little bit think about oh yes by the way I was sworn in I didn't hear if anybody else was Gary C 777 Northeast 111 Street um I believe that this ordinance was enacted somewhere around 10 or 12 years ago and at that time I was on the code review board along with Gage hardung and and there was a awful lot of community input uh and overwhelmingly people did not want to see fences and gates in the front yard now it seems that this particular issue is boiling down to the traffic on Griffin and you know I live on 111 Street matter of fact I'm 200 feet from the house that's uh requesting the variant so I see the traffic I have to go out 100 11th to turn um it is periodic sorry I think we just lost the mic sorry we just lost the mic it just shut off on you I'm sorry give us just one second we're gonna change up the batteries again sorry about that why do we need a wireless microphone for a podium I mean just putting it out there guys it's on the agenda at our next meeting it was on the last meeting we didn't get to it but it it will be discussed at the next meeting all of the mic mean are you planning on like taking it out and getting center stage and while they're doing that the other thing is if you try to listen to the pnz meeting when they discuss it you can't hear a lot of the meeting because of the microphone so it does not make for good public recordkeeping just just just t battery M could come out and do a presentation and sing and dance but hello oh okay song and dance I'm back on air again um I do want to make one point before I I uh move on you're aware of the fact that this house actually has two driveways that they have a driveway that on the side in front of their Garage on 111th that could accommodate several cars so the idea of having the driveway through the front of the property is not a necess a necessity and you know there is nothing inherently unique about the property anything that's restrictive that demands that you have the driveway through the property so it seems to me if you have a driveway on the sidey yard do you even need this driveway so I find it a little bit disingenuous to say you know I want the driveway but the driveway is a problem so I don't want the driveway you know which is it the primary concern I have with this and the big picture you really look at and I heard it from the attorneys a doz a dozen times this does not set a legal pres precedence but we all know it sets a precedence in the community and yes you may have a an amplified situation on Griffin Boulevard but we all suffer these things you know I find people that come in my swell they drive over the corner of the property of the of the grass I put some plants in they don't do it anymore I get the beer bottles and garbage in my y too and I'm on 111th you know I get we have increased traffic it's it's it's Unique I mean it's not unique it's common to biscan park we all know that we all see it it's a major discussion with the community but getting back to the precedent you may continue for me thank you barbar 777 Northeast 111 street I just would like to mention that we are about two less than 200 feet from the house and we were never notified about this variance it were not one of the letters that was posted so I don't know who screwed up but I don't know how many other people weren't noticed about this uh look the purpose of a variance is supposed to be used for person that somehow cannot use their property in the way everybody else uses their property for enjoyment and this is the only recourse they have because the code will not let them do something as Gary said this is a very unique property they have a tremendous amount of parking available and even if they closed off Griffin with it doesn't have to be permanent it could be rolling planters something that would not would stop the traffic from griffing I don't think I don't think I've ever I lived there for 40 years I don't think I've ever seen a car turn in from 111 Street and if that was blocked on a temporary basis if they wanted to roll it out of the way let them but this should not be the reason that this commission goes against our code if you want to change the code and you want to start having Gates and front yard fences that's a different matter but you should not give a variance because somebody's a nice person or do you feel bad because if their kids are playing there we had three kids on 111th with a very shallow front yard and I didn't have them playing out there I had them playing in my backyard you know it just should not be the reason for a variance and I think if you do Grant it that is a precedent because there's nothing to base it on for necessity and I agree with um pnz when they it did not meet the criteria and that's what they judge it on and I'd like to hear from Gage to hear why they didn't think it met it thank you thank you thank you Janie Anderson 11905 Northeast 11th place and yes I've been sworn in ordinances exist for a reason meaning variances should only be given under the most unique and extenuating circumstances and you don't have that here uh as far as the driveway connecting two public roads being somehow special several of us have that I do and yes people will occasionally cut through bikers will bike through if it ever got that bad I can put something down the middle of my driveway nobody can cut through problem solved without putting up big Gates uh there's some there's some other things said that to me come across is quite a stretch particularly because they haven't even lived the property yet the installation of rolling Gates would provide a barrier to protect the property well any one of us in the city can say that that's not indigenous just to that property the instulation of rolling Gates would improve safety throughout the neighborhood and reduce the potential for accidents on nearby streets where's the documented proof where's the data without the ability to install rolling Gates the the family would be exposed to unnecessary risks and inconvenience vence again an excuse any one of us could come up with not indigenous to only that property but it would it's also stated that it would contribute to the broader goal of enhancing Public Safety in our community I don't think rolling Gates on this property is somehow going to make somebody on the opposite side of town any safer you know the bottom line is one of the things that most attracts people to our village is the open look is the Green Space and that's something we ought to strive to not give up again he has got other options when considering he's not even lived in there yet surely he's got other options that would totally discourage anybody from using that as a shortcut without putting up those massive Gates and changing the look of our city thank you thank you good evening my name is Kim gubitz 951 Northeast 119th Street I had um the corner for my house was a new car brand new car and 2 o'clock in the morning all I didn't bring it but I I think the police department has it and most of the people know about it all four tires were taken off at 2 o'clock in the morning a brand new car so the week after I wasn't aware about the gates fence here the coats so I called I was I was afraid of my car so I put up um a gate that cost me $122,000 that goes just to my driveway and it pulls out with a remote and I only closed it at night the day I don't need it so uh two days later I get a violation so I come over here they told me you know the code says no uh no gates in front of your uh driveway I said it's only 10% of my property the driveway so I should be secure so I took it off but I till today I don't understand I could bring you pictures from in my neighborhood it's a good neighborhood and you have at night police cannot be all over I mean you know they try their best I know most of them and uh when it comes 3 in the morning 4 in the morning it's very hard if they sneak in to check if the door is open uh of your car you forgot to lock it so security reason just on my driveway to put a gate I feel I mean it's proper to put on to change a code that's I don't know how many years ago it was and it wouldn't change anything uh if for dog walkers I have dogs uh for anything because it's only on the section 10 ft by the driveway and it goes straight into the bushes when it's open you can't even see it so and I had it open all day just at night I closed it so I'm asking again to consider uh to be able I don't know what the rest of the people needs this is my need for for my security I'm asking thank you very much and have a nice evening thank you just to be clear we're on the uh the opposition part now we done the the so but I think that I think that concludes it appears so I I believe that um missioner hamler may have a request before we close public okay oh so I was I was going to ask if this is the right time to call to any of the members of pnz to come forward sorry planning to sign a review board yeah I just so we can that's youbody anybody that want I don't want to put I didn't want to put you on the spot um thank you Gage I just wanted to have so this m just if you can state your name for the hi Gage Chung uh 1029 Northeast 114 Street uh Planning and Zoning or planning design review board chairman thank you thank you so I'm going to go back the reason for being here is we have a specific case that was presented in the agenda for the plan and a review in the sign board you guys had a discussion I didn't get the chance to hear what you guys spoke about and I would like if if you may have a summary on the reasons why this application was this the variance was not recommended okay um thank you um so this was brought in front of us last month I believe um for um the variant request uh first they came in and they applied for the for the gate uh we it was denied based on U our current code uh which states that um fences are not allowed in front of homes or in front of the houses okay gates are part of our fence um so um it was denied up based on that and then it came in for a variance request we did review it uh we looked at the Four Points of the variance uh application again um this is a current bis game Park code uh and um so um special circumstances conditions affecting the property which such that the strict application the code would deprive the applicant of reasonable use of their property meaning that whether this part of the code fencing in the front of their yard would would would deprive them of the reasonable use of their property uh we looked at the property they have a fenc in backyard they have a fence they have a pool um so there we um the board did not feel that that denying them having the fences and the gates in the front yard would deprive them of the reasonable use of their property that they had plenty of room in the rear um so um um so like the rest of us we all have backyards and so um we did not feel that um the applicant met that um that point um the variance necessary for the Pres part two the variance is necessary for the preservation enjoyment of substantial property rights substantial property rights so again we looked at that and whether or not the gate whether or not having or not having a gate would deprive the resident of that substantial property right so again the board discussed it and we felt that um um it did not meet that standard again they have a backyard they have a gated backyard there's plenty of space for um for them to use their property and not be deprived of substantial use of their property the granting point three the granting of the variants will not be detrimental to the public welfare or injures to other property in the area in which the property is located we did um we did discuss that I don't think there was actually a um um um we could not find that um it would be detrimental to have a gate or not um uh so there was um so we did not um there was no really objection to that point because um how would a gate sub you know affect the other properties and uh the OD so that point there was um General consensus that they probably did meet that point um number four the variance proposes a minimum variance which makes possible the reasonable use of the property so the discussion on that was um um is this if the if they we did consider this application and for the reasons being is this the minimum variant so the applicant is asking for a six- foot fence and the fence six foot gate so if the applicant is trying to stop cars from going through their property why do they need a six foot gate so is this really a reasonable or um and a minimum variance for the for the um the the reasonable use of their property so we did not feel that there was a um that it met that point so the um the way the code is written it we must you must meet all four points of the code um the the the applicant um um did not meet three of the Four Points um so uh we did vote uh there was a I think it was a 3 to one vote um on the variance uh not recommending an application that the variants be applied are uh approved by you uh based on those um the what I just described now during that that that conversation one of the um we did have a discussion and I wish uh commissioner you had the opportunity to watch the uh the the video of the the meeting you know uh other options were CA came up you know could you put a potted plant in the middle of the the driveway I know that's kind of GLI but it's like you know there are other options besides the last resort which is what a variance is supposed to be it's supposed to be you know you're supposed to have exhausted all of your other uh possibilities of you of meeting these four points so one remove remove the entrance to your driveway on the Griffin side that would stop the traffic from coming in two putting something that would impede traffic cars from driving into your driveway um on the Griffin side so that was another option um um the um um I'm trying to think of just lost my pain to thought of the the other um huh hi I'm sorry hi to the hi to the yeah the height well that would have been if if that we had we felt that if you did if we did pass one and two um point4 would this be considered the minimum so the the fourth would be the um the um the the reasonable use of the property and I just um lost my train of thought sorry um but again this is our existing code uh as was mentioned previously we we've had um over the years within the last 10 years we we were looked at the code again the the the the village decided not to go with gates in the front yards um we've had other applicants which I you know is not relevant to this this um this hearing here um and uh we did try to explore other avenues to give the applicant the the possibility of of achieving their their um their goal of what they are looking for so any other questions um so if if you can CH I can double check so on the Four Points the first three were a no and that's why the last one wasn't uh reached can you just clarify which one was a no from the well I mean we we we we voted on all of them as a whole um but um I believe the board felt that the uh numbers one two and four were not U met the criteria were not met by the applicant number three was a was something that we felt that probably was um was um not you know there was not an objection to that thank you Gage any other questions for Gage okay if I may and I and I just want to actually bring up something too because um something that was said um during the commission um was there a change of language between what was presented to the commission or to the Planning and Zoning Board and then what was presented to the Commission in the application I I didn't I wasn't aware of that but somebody did mention something about the the application being different think public noticing is for a rear setback changing it from 10 to 5 and the application oh I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry no nothing changed on nothing changed okay I thought I heard something that that like after it was presented at us it was rewarded in a way to present to you okay I want to make sure I may please um the applicant still here yes is there anything you'd like to add now that you've heard probably com sure coming up to the podiums uh one of the main things uh or one of the things that was brought up was about the property having a secondary detached garage with its driveway I mean it's almost a 40,000 foot lot so the thought of having to go park in one extreme of the of the lot and walk to the main street structure is is a little is a little tedious um the main structure itself has its garage which is the one that you typically use on the dayto day um the secondary point is why not just put a planter in the middle of an asphalt driveway uh Planters are heavy I mean you could put wheels on them I think the pnz board would not I think the community wouldn't like I don't think it's aesthetically pleasing to have a planter on top of asphalt it just I don't think it looks good um also where is the data to to say that that the streets would become safer by having the gates I think there's a lot of residents that said that that Hazard does exist on 111th when the cars exit the property so there's no data but there is witnesses that I think would definitely agree with with that fact and the reason for the six foot gate height is the same reason that they allow six foot uh height fences which is for privacy so you don't want people looking at your yard my yard is in the front in the backyard is just the pool that's it there is no there's no grass in the backyard there's there's a little bit of uh coverage from a mango tree with like I I would say dirt it's not even Grass Grass doesn't grow there but I would say 40 35 to 40% of the of the land is in the front and I consider that to be my yard so that's why I would like the same privacy that the backyards are forward I'd like that in the front and I think that's about it thank you red um so Commissioners uh before you begin your your discussion there's another board member who has his hand I'm sorry from py sure thank you my name is David gruin I'm on the Planning and Zoning Board I live in 11520 Griffin Boulevard uh so I'm just stealing your time as our Village attorney because this is a question that I had while we were debating this in the pnz board and we don't have the the benefit of being able to to to ask you off the bat but the one thing that's kind of interesting about this situation is that Griffin Boulevard and 6th are the only two roads in our entire neighborhood that are technically County Roads versus Under the full control of biscan park to my understanding is that correct or okay sixth is State Griffin County right right so those are the only two that are outside of the full control of bis game Park was is is I should phrase that better so with the fact that griffing is now upgraded to be able to allow full commercial traffic I know this is a concern to all of you guys and I want to thank you guys for taking time out to meet with the uh the county representatives from the email and everything one of the questions that I had kind of in that the pnz conversation just for our own clarification is s that's County control if there are things done from property line to to SW through the Swale to the road in that space if there was a County ordinance that allowed in a sale for a fence to be put up in medley and other places and everything like that is that then outside of our purview as FIS game Park and as Planning and Zoning to be able to do anything about what happens on a County Road in a Swale that then isn't under our control I'm not trying to put you on the spot to answer now but it was just something that I was curious about when we were debating that you are putting me on the spot and my answer is going to be I have to research it so because I it's really going to depend on what the County ordinance says that relates to the regulation of that area sometimes they defer if the if the municipality has a more restrictive code they'll defer to the more restrictive excuse me restrictive code but the municipal code can not be less restriced than the county but I'd have to look at the specific code code as it relates to whatever area we're talking about right thanks so what's next for our so uh before you begin your uh discussions and move to vote please allow me to remind you that the record must contain competent substantial evidence has been presented to you during the course of this hearing competent substantial evidence such evidence as will establish a substantial basis of fact in which your findings can be reasonably inferred it is such relevant evidence as a reasonable mind would accept as adequate to support whatever conclusion that you reach um competence substantial evidence is expert testimony fact based comments of neighbors and lay persons however it does not include conjecture speculation or generalized statements in support or opposed to a particular matter it's now time for the commission to discuss this matter um that's before you and at the conclusion of your discussions a motion should be brought and seconded either to approve or deny the application in which a vote will then be had okay thank you Brad um all right so then quick question do we know what the vote was for on the umu when you when you had three to one three to one thank you and that should not have any bearing their their vote is a there a recommendation to this commission you you are taking the evidence here at this quasi judicial and it's solely within your discretion as to approve or deny based on the criteria and the evidence that you've heard okay that's that's true thanks okay so at this time we'll open to commission discussion and we'll open the floor to anyone that wants to get us started may I go first yeah please all right great um so uh first of all thank thank you all all of you for coming tonight and uh speaking your minds um for those of you that are pro Gates this is not about that today this is about a variance hearing for a specific case um so we're not going to resolve the the gate issue today okay so I just want to make sure that you guys understand that whatever we decide up here is not going to benefit or not benefit you in any particular way um so here's here's uh my take on this uh having lived across the street pretty much from this property for the last eight years uh I have seen traffic going through there when the when the traffic gets backed up uh on griffing Boulevard uh that 5:00 traffic that gets way backed up and and I've seen people cutting through there a lot um as far as the people that lived there before I don't know they had that sign and maybe they were okay with uh with the fact that people were cutting through their property I don't know um I will tell you that I visited the property um the the the the largest Green Space that they have is is their front yard they they don't have uh a big backyard or or anything like that they have obviously I believe they have small children um because I saw one of those electric trucks that I used to get for my son um so and that was parked uh right in the middle of the Green Space um so um and then you know having seen the the the the reality of of that particular property which which by the way is very unique um to biscan park you know it's it borders two uh two public streets right um and and and you can actually cut through to get to another uh public Street and then obviously uh the fact that it's on griffing and and that light takes forever to change uh and it gets backed up is an issue so um so the the the bigger issue for Simon is that that there's an current ordinance that says that gates are not allowed right um and so then the the question so Simon you're going to kind of like half of what I have to say and maybe you're not going to like the other half um but I think that for me it's reasonable um because I think it is a life safety issue especially with small children playing in the in the front yard um that um that the griffing side um is allowed to be gated off um the 111th Street that's a problem not because I have a personal problem with it but simply because our ordinance does not allow it and you're not going to get people coming through 111 trying to cut through to Griffin right so your your main issue is Griffin to 111th um so for me I'm okay for you blocking off uh Griffin but because of the ordinance the way it sits today and it stands today uh I it would I would have a problem with a lot with with allowing 100 on 11th stre so you know that's that's just I think that that's a fair compromise from my perspective I do think you've met the the I I I really went and looked at all those four points and uh based on your situation there I think you've met all four all four of those points um so I'm okay with the uh with the closing of Griffin but I'm not okay with 111 and again it's simply because the ordinance currently exists and and that's not your pro the big problem aesthetically it may not look very nice because you have one side gated and not the other but you know at least your your your life safety issue in my opinion uh is is is going to be resolved thanks commissioner anyone else want to weigh in at this time so you're saying art for you this that would solve the issue of trespassing if you would just block one entrance yeah yeah I thank you for going there art because really didn't think that that was an option no one had put that out there yet but the problem is definitely from Griffin I I I agree with everything the gentleman to my left just said um yeah no I mean I'm thinking about I go constantly I take this um Mr Fidel take this uh Griffin all the time so I'm very much aware of the backup traffic I see it all the time I also also see people cutting through 111th and cutting just to see if they can curve some other way faster so um that is not news to me I understand the concern I'm also I very much understand this um as a concern for safety not just for your family as I see it we have a lot of Walkers and pedestrians in general cyclists and people doing sports I mean anybody walking on the other side of 111th if there is a car coming on Griffin that is not going to pay attention to whoever comes on the other side is going to want to cut through and cutting through does not happen slowly I'm guessing um so it is a safety concern for pedestrians besides your home as I see it um I understand uh the proposal of maybe considering blocking one exit I am not sure that that would look AO apprpriate in a way or give you the full usage of your driveway I don't know if it's a manual safety that you can pull in and out um I guess that would be just done on one side I mean that that that wouldn't be that difficult for you to do um so let me go through some of my my thoughts and again I don't know if this is supposed to be a conversation but um my thoughts I'm going to tell you so I also feel that at least three of the points are met uh one two and three um I'm not sure about the minimum variance for reasonable use uh and with that said I don't know any other things that could be done that it's not a fence to block an exit so when it comes to block in with Greenery or plant moover mov imp Planters or I just see that defeats the purpose of it driveway um and I understand what that would mean in terms of really going to the extent of changing your entire driveway so that you can utilize it um we would be asking it's an overreach to my perspective um Public Welfare address reason of the use property I understand there is a back here but again um 30% 40% I don't know numbers how much it is just Bas basing it from the the pictures that we have it's a lot of land not to be able to utiliz um another thing I'm thinking about so we recently spoke about the Ila agreement and all the traffic the terance that we could actually get engaged with if on our streets which wouldn't necessarily be on Griffin so nothing that we could do besides on our end to some way slow traffic as a safety concern because it's not only cutting through but also this is a major uh access people want to reach to the stoplight I see it all the time speeding over to get over that green light before it turns red um so we couldn't do much over there either as I see it [Music] um so yeah I think it's I don't know about just the closing on one end um I definitely feel this meets criteria for a very particular case do we have any other corners of the village that you are aware that have one entrance on a major road and exit on the other got it okay yes so they come on one end and go to the other on a if and on Griffin or Sixth Avenue not internal I'm saying on the main um state or County Road that we have the one across the street yeah yeah yeah and there has been variances on the past as it was saying with particular I'm guessing similar is but again don't matter at this stage to be honest with you I agree this meets criteria in my end something needs to be done I would just like to hear any other thoughts so you you know besides commissioner um Gonzalez I don't know MC if you have an alternative way to to look into this because I don't see another solution besides a gate okay I'll be kind of quick so first of all I'm com where is Simon Simon I wish I could see you better yeah get up here in case talk first of all I want to say that I'm completely sympathetic to what's going on there I get it I mean I can walk by there and see and it's kind of obvious um uh I feel like we're having this conversation a bit prematurely he doesn't even live there yet to report that he has a problem so it feels a bit and don't take this the wrong way disingenuous to say that there's this constant problem it's very dramatized I know he doesn't live there yet so that weone um please everyone let's let's just nice to see you J we're in commission discussion everyone please okay so I'll start again here I feel like we're here a bit prematurely because you don't live there yet and you haven't experienced a really serious problem that having been said I don't think that it's not possible that you might experience that I get it especially kids I completely get it so I want to start by saying I'm sympathetic to you um by definition variances start as a no because a variance means someone is not meeting code and they get a no so it starts as a no at the planning board it's a no you can't do it our code doesn't allow it and they have to prove themselves work themselves towards the yes and the system that we have is that there's four points they have to meet and they have to meet all four of them and I hope you guys are all understanding this because Veronica I just heard you say you would support this you get it and you'd support it but 30 seconds prior you said it only meets three of the four variances so I want to make sure everyone's clear they have to meet all four of them our hands are tied to that we have to follow that procedure we don't have a choice I can't say I get it I want to do it for you I have to go one does he meet it or not two does he meet it and as soon as I get to a no then we're at a no that's the process that's set up that we are re IR to follow it doesn't always make us popular and I've sat up here for many of these variance hearings and I've had to say no to people because they didn't meet something even when I thought I kind of get where they're coming from and I like them and I'd like to be able to help them out with this but that's the process that we follow it's kind of like when we are a jury right now and I've been a juror more than once and you get very clear directions from the judge this is what you have to do and leave it all else out in the hallway and boom boom boom boom boom and that's what we have to do you have to get me to four yeses for me to say yes to this and you've got to get three of us to get to all four yeses that's your job here tonight so here's where I stand on it um number one I don't feel like you're going to be deprived of the use of your property so I get I get a no right at number one many you've unfortunately I think you kind of worked against yourself a couple of times because you're talking about privacy issues none of us are private in our front yards I'm not people walk by my front yard the cool cqes drive by my front yard all the time and Peak their heads in to see what I'm doing in my garden constantly so none of us have none of us have privacy in our front yards so when you talk about the fence giving you privacy that's not a consideration here we don't have private front yards here because the driveway opens up in PE at least in the driveway people can see him number two is the enjoyment of your property I get a know there as well because you have substantial opportunity to still enjoy your property number three I you meet it number three number three is which one just so I go on record saying it right that it wouldn't it's not injurious to other properties completely get that you get me at number three there's nothing here that would impact in a negative way the um uh neighbors around you or anyone else in the village um and the biggest no that you get from me assignment and this is where I'm really stouch is the minimum variance to solve your problem your unique situation your situation isn't unique to me but let's pretend that it were a six- foot metal fence in two places is not the minimum correction to solve your problem that quite frankly I'm not Soldier really having because you don't live in the house yet still stuck there really stuck there well you don't so um but a six foot metal fence in two locations is is by far not even close to minimal what you need is a car not to enter a Griffin and cut through and go out 11th for that matter a one foot tall fence would do it if you we were going to agree to give you a gate but a six foot tall fence that does close off your property and give you complete privacy which is not the issue we're here addressing today it's safety things um because you can't ask us for privacy none of us get privacy in the village um so a six- foot metal fence in two locations is not minimum there are other things you could do and we've we talked about some you could change the layout of your driveway you could close one entrance on griffing you even said that you could close that entrance and still have full accessibility from the other side you have a big parking area I know it's not attached to your house I saw it on the survey um you do have other options that are more minimum so what we have to what what we need to get to tonight is a yes by you getting me to say yes yes yes yes I'm no no yes no and if you were to get a yes on number four it's not minimum by far guys it's not minimum that gigantic six foot tall fence in two locations is not the minimum correction for this it's not now art suggestion is a really nice um uh compromise but a six foot tall fence is still not a minimal he need if he wants the cars to stop cutting through he doesn't need a six foot tall fence to do that doesn't he have to go back to the planning board and he would anyway I'm saying is yeah the size of the fence so we're going to say no tonight he's going to get no to what he's presented here and he'll have to go back and start from scratch I suppose I don't know that we're allowed to negotiate something here Brad are we it's we he's getting a yes or a no on a variance request it's very specific so when you're considering sir please listen please sir please sir please we have AUM I'm sorry already been time public comment is over so uh vice mayor to answer your question is when when look when considering whether to deny or approve the variance you're correct that all four criteria have have to be found by the Commission in order to approve it by three of us at least right a majority correct um it's does not have to be unanimous um you can your code also permits you if you make those findings when it comes to the um I gotta remember which one I don't know when it comes to the um the minimum varing what it what it does you C you can as as part of your approval put restrictions negotiated down to what we consider to be minimal not really negotiating so what you're saying is the other three have been met the fourth is partially met but if the if the variance was restricted in a certain way whatever that way might be now the fourth prong is also met got it if that makes sense to you understood okay so let me just kind of encapsulate again one more time so I it doesn't he meets only number three for me guys uh number four is is really far off and I'm still stuck on the fact that Simon doesn't live in the village yet and can't really report to us that there is this serious problem that he's saying there is maybe there is maybe there's not but he can't tell us that right now oh Brad can I ask you can I ask you the variance Brad that's before us it it can be amended or it cannot be amended because if we were to say hypothetically speaking because I'll jump were you finished vice mayor because my what I would jump into is I would say I I agree that there's an Avenue here there's an Avenue here um and I I tend to agree with what commissioner Gonzalez has said is that there's there's a need for it from my perspective um so if if we do come to some sort of agreement on a pair down version of that do we go forward with that now or we're voting on The variance as it's presented to us now no so what you can do is you can find that all the criteria are met and then because what you need all four criteria to be determined and what the code allows you to do and I'll says the commission shall include as part of such variants any condition requirement or limitation which the board which in this case is is the commission may believe to be necessary and desirable to protect the adjacent properties in the surrounding neighborhood and to carry out the spirit and the purpose of the Land Development codes very quickly then if again we were to propose along what you were saying commissioner something along the lines of the variance would be I'm not saying this is approved but the varians would be approved as to a gate on Griffin um to restrict access on that side uh to the approval of the pnz board on the design is and aesthetic yes theyd still have to go back to pnz for the for the just exploring if we were to say maybe five feet I'm just kind of thrown some ideas out there maybe 5 feet that would have to go back before pnz but the idea being that we we're okay with a gate on that side just maybe not on the other side I have a question on that so if it goes back to the board for the Statics part of it what sort of um ordinance are they following we don't have anything specific to Gates in particular do we it it wouldn't be a gate it would be considered as a fence it is a fence it's a it's a movable fence essentially what it is so that's what they would be considering it under right so then everyone has had an opportunity I think that would be my my recommendation to the group to say yes as to that side as to the Griffin side subject to the design and aesthetic subject to uh the decision of the pnz board so that's I think that's the criteria that I would put out and ask for the commission to to vote on that um I don't really have a whole lot else to say for the other side I think that that's a recommend Jonathan do you think he met all four points that's that's what each coming to for that side I think so well the last point though subject to approval of a redesign of of the size right approval of the pnz board so that's what he would be going back for the first the first one's yes and then that one he would be going back my question is do you think he met Point number one point number two point number three point number four for that side yes I have a question since since it's considered a fence wouldn't it be the highest permissible height which is six feet which is currently what I have well I think the our pnz chair had that was the thing if you're gonna if you're going to forgive the the location uh we would we would have to consider up to six feet because that's what our code says so so if you want to restrict the height you need to tell us that you want want to restrict the height because right the code says 6 feet so we even if they want to redesign it we would still have to stay in the parameters of six feet height that would be the limitation is that's for the corner Lots as well six feet I'm on a corner lot I have a four feet fence that's in the side side like yeah so in this case how is it considered because he has a is a triangle it's his front his address I'd like to make a motion to approve uh as I as I said uh allowing for the fence on on Griffin uh and not allowing it on 111th Street I as it is as it is as it is yes sec I second that you have a second okay so we have motion to Second um vote to approve me majority it's just vocal vote I I need a roll call roll oh I'm sorry R and I need um the motion clarified again I got allow for offense on Griffin as is and not [Music] on six feet yes oh so it's it I'm sorry so the motion is only for Griffin because you said as is and I thought you meant as is right the height as is then I think you need to restate that because you said as is and as is is what they brought to us I think she the cler got it 11th Street I said that okay all right right as is mean in the six six foot what it's requested by the applicant ass say I don't as requested for the Griffin side fence okay so it's requested in the application right or Griffin only and who second that motion please um commissioner Holland you're saying six feet as as it is in here so I I just want to be clear what we're voting on we're voting on approving on Griffin only a six foot gate got it mayor Gro yes vice mayor Kennedy no commissioner angeler so I'm gonna I'm okay with all four points I just want to State uh why you do have the special circumstances V oh so I can't okay sorry I'll tell you later um yes commissioner Gonzalez yes commissioner Holland yes mayor the item passes 41 thank you madam clerk thank you Brad is there anything further or do we just need a motion to adjourn at this point motion to adjourn and second all in favor I