e for e e e e e well I have six o'clock so why don't we go ahead and get started uh so call to order our special special Commission meeting for today July 29 2024 um Madame clerk could you please call the RO for us mayor gr here Vice May Huntington here commissioner Amsler commissioner Gonzalez commissioner Kennedy here Mr Mayor you have a corner okay let's do Pledge of Allegiance please okay so let's go ahead and start with public comment we'll start with uh a log cabin uh and for everyone attending both here on Zoom reminder that uh to please state your name and address for the record and public is limited to 3 minutes have anyone in the Log Cabin seeing none anyone on Zoom none on Zoom okay um okay so having no public comment there will be no reply at this time we move on to number six our resolutions and Mr Mayor sure just a point of order on Old business which is number seven which is the um parking and hours of operation signage on constru okay that it's marked as a first reading it is not it's not before you offer a first reading just so moov from ordinance and put on discussion correct correct it was um deferred by you all and moved for today for discussion so it is I know it says first reading but it isn't so the records clear very good okay thank you so we'll get to that one when we get down to number seven so let's go ahead and start with our resolutions in the first well guess the only this looks like a repeat but um resolution 20249 waving competitive bidding and approving agreement with gogov for code and permitting software um Mr manager do is there anything that you want to introduce for us uh with this resolution like me to read it sure please go ahead BR it's a resolution of the village Commission of the village of biscane Park Florida waving the competitive bidding procedures puru pursuant to section 2139 of The Village's code of ordinances and proving an agreement with Goga Inc for the purchase of Code Enforcement case management permitting and Licensing software subscriptions not to exceed $1,560 in the first year and not to exceed budgeted funds in the subsequent years authorizing The Village manager to execute set agreement and do all things necessary to effectuate this resolution and providing for an effective date thanks Brad so Mr manager would you like to introduce the item for us goov just to refresh is the software we're currently using for notifications and um ticket requests work requests from residents um as well as our purchasing system goov has additional capabilities including a full code management system um that includes everything from complaints to sending out the appropriate notices um generating the information we need and format we need for agendas that component would actually eliminate uh I think we figured out on the order of 10 to 12 hours of work um per code meeting what that does is eliminate the need for additional and separate systems so for example right now we're trying to track code um violations and and payments due in um uh bsna um we're tracking complaints with Excel spreadsheets um we're tracking documentation sending sent out using Excel spreadsheets this brings it all within the gogov system and then the third component of gogov that we're looking at using is the permitting this is not for building permits or building related permits this is for internal permits so we're talking things like uh landlord permits garage sale permits things along those lines the reason that we want to do that is within this additional $10,000 spend at goov that will enable us uh coupled with new software options or newers options from cap to eliminate open goov which we're currently spending $50,000 a year on so this will eventually get us a savings of what could be closer to $40,000 this is the first step with that building and permitting process or the the permitting process um we need to get the groundwork laid before we can even consider um switching with the cap situation um or a different software solution other than open go okay thank you Mr manager um so before we move to discussion do we have a motion in a second I'll make a motion to uh to to move forward for discussion second okay great um okay so Mr manager thank you so we'll go ahead and open up to discussion at this time to anyone that would like to address any points so the only question that I have Chris is um this cost obviously we we we we haven't budgeted we didn't budget for it this year correct correct and when did we realize that we needed this upgrade or software is that something that just came up recently this the need has been there for quite a long time we've known that our current systems are not adequate for um building permitting procedures and B bsna is not great for code um the idea of using goov only came up after we started using goov for the notifications component as well as the workload management system we found out they had these additional capabilities and where where are we pulling this money from we currently have Savings of well over $100,000 the administration budget that comes down from um everything from uh Insurance savings um we're under spending right now in things like um uh travel and pum um just a little bit here and there on many different categories so we have enough to absorb this cost at least for the next two months and then once we get into the new budget season and it fund the rest of it so it's not $10,000 can you hear me is it I don't s yeah okay so Chris it's not $10,000 till the end of this fiscal year it's a $10,000 annual amount and we would PR rate that for the first two months for this fiscal and then we would budget it for next year is that correct correct so how much are you really asking for for the remainder of this fiscal year like 1,200 bucks or something let me let me back up this is the contract is for 12 months so it would be 10,5 $6 for the full 12 month period right now correct okay so I'm a little confused about this so I'm going to ask for some additional information so we have a system that's doing this now and you're saying that there's a bit of redundancy because we have a system that we're using for something else that has this additional capability and we could just absorb it into that system but we have to pay extra for the increase in the uh in the service that it can provide is that correct Fair way to put it okay um so how much would we save how much are we paying for the system we're using now that we would no longer use open go Al loan we're paying about $50,000 a year if we're able to switch code over to this as well as the in-house or Village permits not building permits over to this um and go to the 100% model with with cap then we can eliminate a $50,000 open go fee and that would be then a $440,000 net savings for the year correct but how much just on what we're using it for now what we're using open go for now what are we paying for the capability that we'd be replacing there isn't a way to break that down oh it's all of one okay um have you talked to any other municipalities that use gogov for the purposes that you want to use it for because we're using it for one thing now but now you want to talk about expanding it to other things who have you talked to that's using it in those ways as well I've not talked to other municipalities using Goo this is based strictly on the information we received from the company as well as as well as our experience over the past eight months nine months now with the gogov system we're familiar with how it works and I've had many internal conversations on if that functionality would serve what we need for code so you're not only asking us to switch over to this and I understand the savings and you're saying that the service would be better um but you're also asking us to wave competitive bidding that's the other part of this item is to allow you just to make this change it seems to me that if we're going to make a change that it's always best to know what other options are available so if we're going to make a change and I if you tell me that we could do better and possibly save money why would we want to not why would we want to skip the step step of putting it out to bid and seeing what else is out there that might be better cheaper the best way to answer that question is we went through that process when it came down to picking the correct notification and workload management system based on everything that we saw all of the the proposals that we received we determined that goo provided the best functionality for the best price the reason that we want to stick with that is because our current situation is multiple systems trying to accomplish one job by by waving competitive bidding we can instead of putting it over for bid and ending up with two or three additional systems we can bring it all into open go I'm sorry all into goov and use just that one system and again with the understanding that we did do our due diligence prior to choosing it for what we're currently using it for so I'm confident in in requesting that we wave competitive baaing I understand that but when you uh when you looked at this company and its product you didn't look at it for this specific purpose you looked at it for a different purpose and you evaluated it for that so I hear that you evaluated it and you're happy with what it's doing but you didn't look at it for these purposes so I guess maybe what I should have said was maybe you could find something that could do all of it better rather than this one piece of it better so are there other companies out there that do this that have a product that could do all of this and have did you look at them at the time when you got goov for the purpose that we're using it for now we did look at code when it came to our request of proposal for this Communications piece um all of the vendors that we spoke with had some sort of code component um and they were all either the functionality was limited did or the the overall pricing was going to be way above what we could afford okay um I think that's all I have for now I do have one question for you Chris on the point that we're talking about eliminating that that $50,000 what was the service that we're paying the 50 for that's open go open goov so when we paid for open go we we purchased that system was it paid all up front kind of the same way this is done or because I'm trying I'm thinking about overlap what's the overlap is there is there an overlap between goov and there will be some overlap um open goov is up in October actually um our contract is up in October which is why I wanted to get this going now because then that gives us August and September to make sure that we can get everything moved over um before we had that conversation about cancelling open go so there's a process of of migrating data too right and we do that we'll do that in-house or that'll be part of the goo service it'll be in-house okay well that that brings up a good point though right so if if our contract with them is up in October and we do have overlap right why why can't we just talk to them and just say hey let's just do it all in one one deal in October right um and then like Max said maybe we can prate now from now to October whatever is owed because that because that way it just eliminates one more layer of stuff for you to be thinking about on a yearly basis there different dates yeah and to add on to that before you respond to that Chris the is there an opportunity for us to test the new capabilities of gogov during that two-month time period where we still have open gov I'd hate to think we pull the trigger on this and then in December we find out oh this isn't working we've gone through this so many times in the 10 years I've lived here where some piece of software is going to be the answer to all of our problems and I mean every company does makes those same mistakes my company has to but is there the opportunity to say hey gogov since hey gogov since we're a current client of yours and you know we're paying you money now be transparent with them well I guess they're watching this too um be transparent with them and say look our contract with open goov ends in October why don't you just give us the service for free for two months let us take a swing at it see how we like it if you're that confident in your product you know you're going to get a yes from us in October let us see how it goes and give it a test is there a way to to work that out and so you pay gogov for the service you have now you're paying open gov anyway because you have a a contract you have to run out get a little test I would think they would do it I would hope they would do it for free just to prove how great they are especially since you already cut them a check every month I think and um see what because what if you don't like it what if you you guys start using it and there's all kinds of issues just thinking out loud here so again the answer to that question is we have been using open of we understand how it works we understand the functionality and we've seen what the code component does um software companies don't provide those free trials because there is a lot of effort put in ahead of time for configuration they take the off-the-shelf version have to include our information in this case it would be configuring it to work with our existing system so that's not something that is done in the software World offer that that free trial the reason I'm bringing this up now is so that we do have those two months if between now and October we find out that this the the solution is not going to work for us um then I'm assuming without putting our attorney on the spot we have the ability to back out of that contract with goov if we don't we would certainly ask them to rate that into the contract look I understand it's you know make sweeping generalizations like software companies don't do that uh you don't know until you ask I'm in sales people ask me for stuff all the time that I don't do and then I do it because they're going to be a good client right so there's it doesn't hurt to ask but um I I just want to make sure that we would have an out if it didn't work be paying for the full year right initi that's what I'm saying see if there's a way to knock so then how are you going to get you're saying that they're going to earn money to us in October if we're not or yeah in October oh with a with a product I'll kick it over to our attorney for that this is a 12mon agreement so it's a it's a subscription agreement for for 12 months um is a 60-day cancellation period for notice yes yeah so so I didn't hear what you said Jonathan all right there there it's a there's a 60-day cancellation notice period That's but that's for that relates to Renewal that's just for Renewal right correct so what you have what this is is what's known as it what's known as an evergreen agreement so it it this agreement will continue to renew itself and renew itself unless the village makes a um makes an affirmative action to notify the company within days from the termination date that um they they that the village no longer wants to use this this product is anyone from goov in this meeting Chris no they no so I I just want to say how I feel comfortable with this Chris but I I I would feel more comfortable if we were able to do what I said initially which is look guys we want to do it we want to start fresh in October for a full year give us the product let us use it prade it for the next couple of months we'll pay you for that and then starting in OCT October will pay you for for the for the for the entire thing I I I feel more comfortable that way makes more sense I I would like to think that they would give it to you for free for two months since because we are a current client I don't think that's a big ask doesn't hurt to ever ask I would feel more comfortable that as well because the other side of that coin to save the $40,000 is we have to go 100% to cap which we haven't finished the agreement with that either so if it doesn't work out going 100% to cap we're stuck with a $10,000 contract for a year and we basically have double the amount of software than we need maybe something like this maybe what we can do is is is modify the motion to say that we would approve it um with the condition that uh that you get in touch with goov and ask about Pro rating for the next two months until you get to the annual uh the annual date in October to do a 10,000 from there and see if they'll do that is that something that we'd be comfortable doing repeat that please so um uh approve what's being asked for uh upon the condition that that Chris is going to go to goov speak to them about trying to get the two months pro rated to get us to October and at that time we'll sign the annual agreement right if they say no to that then what are we gonna then what are we approving you want to wait till October yeah I I would want that say no I don't understand why they're not here when we're having a meeting about something in a contract and waving bids and they know that they're kind of first in line for something I don't know why they wouldn't have someone sitting in this room knowing we might have these questions so our next meeting our next meeting is in what two weeks right little more then right yeah just over two weeks so is that enough time for you to go to goov and say would you consider Pro rating us for up until October to give us August and September um and then let us know in in at the August meeting if that's something that they're willing to do yeah I can certainly ask just to make sure I'm understanding correctly you want a PR rate September or uh August September with the ability to cancel at the end of September I think so so you're saying you're gonna want a two-month contract okay because that's different than what you were saying a moment ago it is it is different yeah that's I want to just make sure correct correct so the idea is that ask goov if they will give us the the two months leading up to October at the pro-rated annual rate um with right yeah they would obviously modify their contract because it's a 60-day renewal 60 days would be like the day you get the the software you have to get a shorter renewal period Well the 60 days renewal just so we're clear that that's renewal term that's the renewal term so that's no less than 60 days upon the the correct Ral 10 at the 10-month period of of the term so just for argument sake if the term started January 1 on on September 30th you would have to notify the company that you're not continuing on with their service otherwise it would automatically renew they're going to provide you what the new rates going to be for the following year and presumably they would do that they actually under this they do that before you make that you have to make that decision well and that's another good point the rate might change it does if you if you look at the agreement it can go up up to 7% per year so is it going to change in October from this 10,000 because we're we're we're this starting now well if if you were the way that you agreement is worded if we were to start this if you were to approve the agreement as is today and our start date was October first or or or whatever then it wouldn't the possibility of an increase wouldn't occur until 12 months from whatever the start date is if I can't answer whether or not if we go if the manager goes to the company and says hey we want we want these two months you know pro-rated whether or not they're going to ask for an additional um well then I think what we ask for is for this two months and the ability and we want to test it we we want it to align with renewal and we want to test it and ask for two months PR rated amount and that rate then locked in for what would then be a one-year contract start starting on October one so basically they're locking in the rate for 14 months instead of 12 um and then it becomes an annual thing Brad read the language in there about the uh the increases though okay I mean said something about quote not to exceed budgeted amounts in subsequent years what does well that's in our resolution right you're talking about right there's no way for so the reason why it's worded that way in the resolution is because there's there's it's a multi-year contract that you're approving essentially with a with a termination in the in Clause that says you know two months in advance you have to give them notice for you to approve the contract there's no way for me to put an amount for subsequent years so in other words if we had an agreement where it's $10,000 for year one $122,000 for year two I could say fiveyear contract and this is what it is in the resolution since I can't do that because there's no way for me to know what that amount will be in the preceding year just want to make sure that it's you're what you're approving is that the manager can continue to um use the service and sign off on the agreement for each subse Quint term um assuming that he has a budgeted amount if he didn't have enough funds to budget it then he would not be permitted under the under the resolution to renew the subscription and also just so clarify what I was saying before I was just looking for the provision the what the contract requires is the vendor will send quotes for the preceding year I'm sorry subsequent year six months prior to the renewal period so you're going to get six months notice here's what the price is going to be for the next year and then you would still have four months in which to notify the company we're not going forward so on given an October one annual renewal we'd have a May one we'd have a number every May one which is plenty of time for Budget season and then our budget process allows us kind of a way out at that point too if we don't budget money for it then we can't do it anyway well if you if you don't budget money for it the manager would know that during the budget approval exactly another way for us to get out timely notify the company that um we're not going to go forward okay I'm good with getting a prorated amount for August September with the ability to cancel uh with October one and then have that rate locked in for a new one-year contract starting October one with the rest of the renewal language in there so it sounds or am I if I'm understanding what's happening today there somebody you're deferring this item to bring it back at the next agenda or you're just approving it with that condition I think we I would be happy approving with that condition and Chris could come back to and report to us if something goes wonky at the August meeting right I'll have to I'm going to have to draft the agreement a little bit differently but we can do that sounds good the the green light first well that's why that's why I we're g to have to work on multiple things at the same time so we have to redo the agreement because it's going to include those additional two months with the cancellation I have to reach out to goo to make sure that's something that they're willing to do um maybe that they're willing to do a pro for two months but not lock in that rate for the subsequent year I have no idea so we'll have do those so procedurally what I think um you you've given both the manager and I Direction on uh what is acceptable and where you would like to see this this item go I think my suggestion would be unless the manager has an objection to it is is for somebody to make a motion and defer it based you've given us direction to negotiate further with the company you can defer this to a date certain which would be the August meeting and we could come back to you with a revised agreement and an answer from the the company is too art need to make that motion because it was his motion I'm just did that work Chris when's are August 13th I think it's the 17th or the 13th 13th I'm just procedurally because then that but then the issue is that it's not two months any longer and the other question I had is the timeline if something off it's not off the shelf they have to customize it to us how what's the timeline for that to get it in our hands it's going to take 3 weeks four weeks a month two months then this timing might not work they start working I'm assuming we start we have to be paying them anyway exactly so if it takes them two months to get the product to here to Village Hall then we'll be in October before we prited on the effective date when we approve it at the August meeting and it prated for X number of days or weeks however you want to word it still PR things by the hour if you wanted to my my recommendation my suggestion um I'll actually go against what the attorney is recommending and say get this approved as we discussed provided they're willing to do the two months provided you know the the the the uh the performance is acceptable and then we'll continue simply because that'll give us the ability to move as quickly or slowly as we have to to get this done um we are down to a time when as days are going to make a difference as we get closer to 10 I'm fine as long as the as long as the rate's locked in I don't want to then find out that they gave us a they jacked up the rate on you know after less than two months starting on October 1 so the two months pro rated like go for it and as long as that rate is locked in I'm good and all the renewals kick in Chris what about um open gov what is your cancellation requirement with them uh September 30th we have to cancel so you just give them 30 days notice okay and then I hope all of the stuff is put on a calendar so we remember these cancellation opportunities every year because we trip not this but the village has tripped over those things in the past okay so I want to repeat it so I'm clear on what we're agreeing on we're going to agree to have Chris just move forward with the contract um through the end of September whenever the effective date is the effective date is based on what they work out with goov uh but it expires on September 30th when a uh at the rate proposed in this contract tonight and then on October 1 it starts with a one-year calendar at that same rate with all the same renewal stipulations that are already in there so motion that I'll second that but um just sorry point of clarification do we call it a one-year calendar or is that a fiscal or a rolling 12 I'm sorry one but one and one further point on that is if they don't agree to that is this dead is that what we're saying okay and we have a we have a product that that are completely happy with but it's working and we can put it you we can put it out yeah the same rate yeah is that clear or ask here is mud on my end I'm not sure about here too this is not gov office this is gogov this is goov and for the new vendor clean record cleaning keeping purposes keep can we just amend the motion and the second that was already on the floor we will have to do that trying to figure because they were talking about taking his Motion in another second so and art do you want to amend your motion yes motion uh and then so so I gotta say the new motion okay so the new motion all right to be clear is that we were we we would like to have a two-month agreement right uh with goov uh and then uh the new agreement starting October 1st for for one year at the locked rate of 10,000 what is it 10,000 what is it 10,000 annual yeah the 10,000 whatever rate they already have with the option to cancel if we aren't happy right right with it exactly that's true too yes option to cancel September 30 so the new motion is a short-term agreement agement with goov that starts on the date that Chris signs it expires September 30th at the rate that we're looking at tonight with an option to cancel or it automatically renews October 1 for one year at the rate that we're looking at tonight with all the then pick up all the renewal language after that this was basically a 14-month agreement just with two months yeah said it different but it has a but except it has a cancellation option in there it's not a 14-month agreement because you can cancel after two okay good now do we have a second on commissioner Gonzalez's amended motion second as amended okay and all in favor hi hi hi okay let's get let's uh let's move on to section seven old business and it's going to start with what was ordinance 20244 um but since it's been moved off of ordinance and into discussion um commissioner Kennedy I think you moved it from ordinance to discussion formally so do you want to I guess introduce it for us and and lead off the discussion me yes okay well I don't remember exactly how this came to be a couple of meetings ago but then we asked Brad to come to us with an ordinance to change our code about signage at construction sites and the challenge the the opport the challenge is uh ongoing issues I can construction sites and the opportunity is to eliminate some of those problems at construction sites and to better communicate with residents how to engage with the village about problems at those construction sites and we talked about the fact that a lot of the people working at these sites very likely may not even be aware of some of the rules that they're required to follow uh because the rules are not posted they're in our code it is everyone's responsibility to follow all the the code when they're working at the site but if we're just being real about it they don't know the the sub that show up to do the work don't know the hours they don't know they have to clean up every day and follow all the rules in our code so we asked for a construction sign and Brad wrote it up very quickly like that and there it was as an ordinance and then I asked to pull it off because I wanted to discuss it more so I put together uh something that I would like to show you guys it's on backup so if you want to take one of these and pass them down Pamela I have a copy there for you as well I know you have to keep a copy on record uh and if anybody in the audience wants to see this I have extra copies up here when it gets to the end you can grab it so in the interest of doing the best that we possibly can and not just checking a box um I put together this sign and I actually looked at some pricing I am not suggesting this pricing is all final but I'm proposing two things one would be at Major construction sites that include a construction fence a 4x4 foot vinyl I think it's vinyl some material Banner that are these are outside banners that are made to be hung on fences like this and they actually make them for construction sites and they have grommets in the corners and you attach them with twist ties and they're a temporary sign that hangs on the construction fence so whenever our code requires a fence it also requires the banner that would be posted for smaller projects that don't require construction fences it would be the same thing but in a yard sign like the size of an election sign maybe a little larger on Stakes that would be put out in the property so the same information is shared but in a in a smaller more subdued way at a smaller construction site so whenever there's a permit you know pulled for a site one way or the other there's a sign either a small sign or a big banner hanging on the construction fence itself and there's two sections in what I put together there are two sections here one is a notice to workers on the property that say Hey workers you have to follow our code it has this and I and I want us to create I'm proposing that we create these that we don't just leave up to the uh to the contractor to put a sign up that will be little it'll get rained on it's in a plastic sleeve no one's going to notice it I want it to be boom I want it to send a message so every worker that pulls up in park sees this huge Banner with a village seal on it and it looks very official and it's a notice to workers on the property and it advises them of not every single thing that's in the code certainly but all the big things that we know are ongoing problems like where they Park their vehicles the work hours people start to work start too early a lot so it's allowable work hours hours no parking on the medians and on roads how swimming pools have to be handled how the fence itself has to be handled the cleanup of the litter I get complaints from uh residents about all the messes around these construction sites as a matter of fact there's one resident here this evening who walks around the village and picks up trash at the construction sites and then reports back how much trash she picked up so uh this is an ongoing problem um how the site must be secured you guys can read everything there it's all in English and then at the bottom it says ask for a copy of these instructions in Spanish and it repeats it in Creole as well and and then basically it's the message of that violations of Our Land Development code including chapter 18 construction which is where most of this come from they may be cited at the discretion of our code dep Department the code manager is here tonight and that fines may be levied after everything goes through an adjudication process by the way I ran this through Brad and he did change some of the language to make it sort of align with how things have to work um and it's not a complete list of the violations the second section of this Banner is a notice to uh to Residents to report violations so if there are problems we I'm sure you all get the same emails I get they started working at 7 o'clock this morning they're working off hours on a Sunday they're working on a Federal holiday when they're not supposed to be there's garbage all over the place they're parking on the medians they're parking in my yard all the things we all hear so residents know all the different ways they can engage with the village to report a problem whether it's calling code enforcement uh emailing code enforcement um calling the police during off hours that's an ongoing problem people don't know what to do at before code is here Doran what time do you are you do you guys open at 9ine great so when there's when there's no code officer in the village weekends off hours people know to call the non-emergency number for the police so the police can get there and document it and we all know how that process works some things the police can enforce but very often they can provide evidence that the code Department can then use to follow up and site at their discretion to cite the property owner um and it also encourages people to download the free Village app and tells them how they could uh file a complaint there as well so that's what I'm proposing the first page spells that out the second page shows an example of what one of these banners looks like I just went on Vista Print and I'm sure staff can find other places to do it locally if we want to support a small business in the area I just looked on Vista Print because it's easy I had something printed there a couple weeks ago and it was in two days I had it in my mailbox I couldn't believe it um but it's uh if we wanted 50 of these in full color with the wind mesh the grommets the whole nine yards it's a little over 3,000 bucks Chris just told us we have th $100,000 unspent in this fiscal year that would be 50 of these things plus yard signs would be a couple of hundred bucks yard signs are cheap like election size yard signs so I'll wrap it up and let you guys talk but the point is is that these construction sites are an ongoing problem we all know they are they're they're a bit of a mess and some of them go on for years years some of these go on and the people around it are just you know get themselves all worked up and in defense of the workers at these sites I know that some of them have no idea what time they're allowed to start because I've heard back yeah because I've so in all fairness to them this is solid information for them as well so it's to help the workers um and the contractors um and to help residents as well and it sends a very by having the village do it and produce something that looks like this and is big and professional and in your face it sends a very clear message biscane Park is different we're glad you're here working but don't mess with us and residents if you have a problem we care we really care and we want you to engage and we don't want you to be frustrated because you have no idea what to do because it's 6:30 in the morning and there's a cement mixer at the end of your driveway pouring concrete in the house next door so I'm proposing that we take this several big steps forward and we just do this the right way and be done with it so Mr Mayor if I may just to just to kind of discuss real quick how we got here yes please what the what the purpose of this was to start with um so what what I was directed to do by the commission um there were issues that you all were having um within the village with regards to the time in which construction act activity was taking place and then there was the second issue was um parking on medians and and potential damage to the medians by I'm going to use the word construction vehicles in a a broad sense for a moment it's it's going to explain how we got here and what the issue became so when I started reading the code and trying to amend the code to to accomplish those two goals of put of creating signage to inform workers of of of those restrictions and um what I realized was that some of the definitions in your code for instance a construction site would not the the present definition of a construction site would not have um alleviated some of the issues that you were all concerned about and the reason why I say that is if you look in your code of the definition of a construction site which is in 18-1 of your Land Development code it excludes um contractors that are doing driveways Roofing work window installation doors painting or any other such work deemed by a vehicle building official to be such minor nature as to not fall within the purview of this chapter so those types of vehicles you could have a roofing truck which can be a fairly substantial vehicle um and and several of them sure you could have a a crane attached to you know the moving truck the the roofing trucks that have the roofing materials with the cranes they could be parking on the on the on the um median and under the definition that you all had of of a construction site in your ordinance it wouldn't have applied to them so what we did is we created a new definition which is Construction activ and what what we did is we felt that that covered the activities that you were all trying to regulate and what we did is extended that because it means the grading demolition alteration repair remodeling or other improvements of existing or new structures or properties which require a village permit so here where where we end require what a village permit okay good that's what so here what we ended up with is this accomplishes what you all had set out for us to try to accomplish but to some extent it almost becomes a little over accomplished and the reason why I say that is you can be doing interior Renovations in your house which would require a permit which would require some form of signage um under under this ordinance it's it's kind of an All or Nothing thing there's no way to really distinguish those types of activities um so what we tried to do is come up with a sign that would would work in the same way as which in which a a contractor would be hanging or or posting a a permit as you know they have to post the permit on the job site and the the thought was that the notice to the workers was with regards to the hours and with regards to where they can and can't park would be attached to that permit so or or in the same location or a similar location to where the permit was so that those individuals be on notice as to what the regulations were in the village but that's that's kind of how we got there it's a kind of a an example where it seems like an easy fix but when we started making the fix it it ends up changing other sections of your code so that we can Encompass what you were trying to regulate just very quickly on that point Brad would would the eventual proposal when we get to the ordinance it would actually it would it would alter the code then correct we would be adding a definition to the code it it Alters sever several things in your code yeah so it creates we added a definition of um as I said and I can't think of what what I just said um describing that activity sorry construction activity but we also added a a specific section um which under your development permit section which is 16.2 of your Land Development code requiring specific signage and when it was to be placed and whose responsibility it was to be replaced and what the format should be um and that it remains on the construction act where the construction activity is taking place until the activity that's subject to the Perman has permanently ceased um so we've Incorporated all that and then we also Incorporated the times and and specifically what needed to be on the signage because when the manager and I were speaking what we anticipated is we would provide the the information to the person pulling the permit as to what was required to be on the sign and the specifications of the sign and it would be their requirement to make the sign up and and place it on the property in a conspicuous place where it would be seen may I may I may I respond to that so yes thank you for clarifying the the code changes the whole uh section about activities is so long couldn't it just simply be say couldn't simply say construction activity is anything defined as that any work that requires a permit there's all the language before that says and requires a permit couldn't it just say construction activity is anything that requires a permit get rid of all the grading and the it's just anything that requires a permit we can we were trying to be as inclusive as we could I just think that's inclusive because we have it's very clear what you need to what you need a permit for I whatever your wishes are I mean if you want to keep all that in there I'm just trying to I'm it's it's just so much when really what it's about is if you have if you're get if you're pulling a permit if a permit's required for your job then you've got to have the sign up but whatever makes more sense to to you Brad I suppose just you know do whatever you think makes sense there but so to pick up where Brad left off I'm suggest I'm saying yes to all of that and simply saying that I don't want to leave it up to the contractor or the homeowner to make a sign and here's the language and you have to put a sign up let's just be let's not be naive here no one's going to notice those signs some thing that's printed that someone prints and hangs up and if it's protected in a plastic sleeve like a permit is and it's hung where on the property where's where's it going to be hung what I'm proposing is a much bigger fix to the pro it's like it's like taking it seriously like we really are taking this seriously and we're putting everybody on notice this is what's expected of you and residents if you have a problem we care and we'll help you done okay so couple things number one um Spanish needs to be included not that little thing here get a sign in Spanish because the English part here is mostly people speak work in Spanish over here anyway um that's one thing and then and the other thing is I'm good with that and and I think that that's a great idea uh to do that um but I would like for you know for us to have these signs available to anybody that pulls a permit whether it's a yard sign or or whether it's one of those big banner signs but I'd like for them to leave leave a deposit and uh and and then return that when they're done with the construction and the reason for that is because a I don't want to pay for it yep and B uh they're not going to take care of it um and we'll never going to get those signs back right so if we make them give us a a deposit for whatever the sign costs 100 bucks 50 bucks $75 whatever it is and at the end of the construction bring it back and we'll give you your return your deposit then then I'm good with that but but if not I I I don't because we're never going to see sign so he went Spanish definitely got to have Spanish and um see I originally was going to translate the whole thing into Spanish and and do it like put a line under each one that translates it into Spanish and that's certainly easy enough to do but um I thought this might just sort of yeah no that's yeah I put because because nobody's gonna ask ELO for a for a sign I Googled the I Googled the translation by theend that to be an actual translation and and creole as well so Brad can to Art's Point can we require a deposit for the banner or sign and is that would that be written into the code or is that then it would have to be it would have to be written into the code um I don't know off the top of my head I'd have to do some research on it could we make them purchase it if not put down well we were making them purchase it because they were creating it themselves so yeah so then could you make them purchase our version of it I believe so but uh I'm again I got to do some research you're think thinking you're I think what I heard you say is we might be able to require them to buy it from us but not put a deposit down for it I think the deposit becomes somewhat problematic because then what what we run into is a situation where okay the deposits is for the per as I see it is for two purposes one to make sure we that the village gets ass sign back and two that it's able to be used again so now we're going to get into that back and forth with with the permit holder as to came it ripped it off okay so this yeah it's a little faded but you can still use it so I should get my deposit back yeah and we're going to go back and forth so I I think it would make more sense to require them to purchase the sign and um have them pay the actual cost of the sign yes but I just have to research it before I give you a solid answer to that I'm good with that there's a there there's look I I I think this is a great idea I think we definitely need it 100% no question I've heard a lot of people make the same complaint say they don't know when they're starting they don't know definitely needed I think by broadening this to anything that requires a permit I think becomes a little over encompassing kind of over inclusive so I remember one time when we were doing construction um uh the building codes forever ago that took us eight months to get through however long it was someone came up with a very interesting I don't remember what the context was but somebody came up with an interesting um point was if I go to replace a banister on my porch requires me to pull a permit so under the way that we have this structured if we're doing anything that requires a permit somebody just wants to replace a banister they got to go out and they got to get all this stuff um I guess I don't really know what the answer is because that would be the small one what I'm saying is if there's a construction fence required and that wouldn't be required for a banister being replaced on a front porch no fence required if you're going to put an eight by 10 sign an 8 inch by 10 inch sign let's say on the mayor's example and you're going to have that sign in English Creole and Spanish you're either going to have the font so small that you're going to have to be on top of it to read it I'm suggesting when there's not a construction fence it's a yard sign it's the size of like an election sign like the size that contractors put out and yes it is small writing and people can go up and read it I think once you 8 by 10 once you start including other languages this is all great information but I think the information needs to be reduced severely because it almost becomes so much information that I don't have time to read all that I got to get to work and I got and my my boss is on me if I don't get to my deadlines done so I can't read two paragraphs I'm just gonna I don't think they're gonna read it anyway but it allows us to hold them to it I I think short short and sweet sometimes is which ones would take off I don't know we'd have to triage it and look through what it is but if you if you start including a whole another sorry work term if you start including a whole another language it's going to become word vomit in front of you and you're just going to Breeze right by it so what the what the draft ordinance required was the construction times and I'm just I'm not reading the whole thing to you just telling you what the topics were were the construction times and the restriction for parking on the median and I'll also agree with the the mayor when we're talking about any permit requiring this if you to pull a permit just to install an electric car charger in your garage it requires one electrician with one truck in your driveway it's not multiple contractors coming in and out trying to get creative with their parking it seems like an overburden to the smaller permits to require it I could definitely see we definitely need this when it comes to Major construction sites when you have to have a construction fence and porta-potties and things like that but for the smaller permits to have to require someone to go pick up the sign bring it to their site bring make sure they get it back or they lose their deposit I think that we're over burdening we're over legis those small permits I won't disagree with that and here's why I came up with what I came up with because I don't know how else to to get it to execute this thing properly problem because because you gave an example of a little small thing electrician's going to be there for an hour he has a permit he's going to get it done he's going to be gone he's there in two hours there for two hours but there are other small jobs that three trucks show up for and they're parked in the median and they throw trash all over the place and they're causing the same problems and they're arriving at the wrong time and they're working when they're not supposed to be and possibly because who knows I'm G to say something I shouldn't say but my point is I was trying to look for a way to execute it properly and the fence or the no fence is all I could come up with you come up with another way I I hear what you're saying but a small job could have three trucks there and one fits in the driveway and two are in the median and now we got a problem and it could and like you said you don't believe that people are going to read this we're we're trying to get the the majority of the people the violators covered by large signs and I think the majority of the violators are the ones that have major construction sites with fences and things like that majority of small jobs are one two trucks they can fit you can fit one or two trucks in your driveway what about this then what if we just kind of hit a compromise here and we said we'll start with the banner on anything that requires a fence see how that goes what kind of compliance we get how people react to that and if we see that there's a need for it we'll say okay it's not fixing everything now we'll make a small sign and figure out a way to do it I would definitely be in support of that but I also you have to point out that there's stop signs in this Village that people don't seem to follow people don't follow signs what they follow is enforcement if we have someone who comes out and enforces these and people when you start hitting them at their wallet and start finding them they they listen we have speed limits on our highways people don't abide by the speed limits until the state trooper with the hat pulls them over gives them a really big ticket then they learn don't speed enforcement is the only way people are going to learn unfortunately signs I think it's it's like just like our traffic mitigation or traffic mitigation strategy it's an all-encompassing but enforcement is the biggest issue have to I agree with you a th% but if you don't have the speed limit sign up there's nothing there for the cops to enforce and if you don't have the stop sign up there's nothing for the cops to enforce and with this up we have now completely eliminated the I didn't know are you kidding me there's a 4X dorine can walk up and say there's a 4x4 foot Banner there in English Spanish and creole yes you did know and if you didn't shame on you here's your ticket you know remember it's the property owner that side yeah I know I know but you know everything trickles down so you know they're the ones going to catch hell so let's go back to I'll in order to push something through I would be happy to start with banners on anything that requires a construction fence that I'd be happy with that we can come back and address it later work hours have to be on there the parking has to be on there the litter in my opinion has to be on there the construction dumpster section has to be on there um and we're doing a banner it'll be fine as far as the the letter the font because I mean it's a big I would like all of this to be on there put this whole paragraph and then you put it in English and Spanish well you put it in English and like a four by foot four foot Banner is as big as what 4 by4 it's almost twice the size of that it's really big so you can put these sentences in English and in Spanish right next to each other or right below each other they can fit it on I mean once you start playing with Graphics you're going to figure out what you can yeah exactly I think I think it can look I got it all on here now multiply this make this that much bigger and look how much bigger the font gets they can get it on there so maybe we do this if if what we're doing if I think the proposal which I think makes sense to start with is that we're going with fences because we're going with the larger sites those are the ones people are really from what I've heard those are the ones people are complaining about so we start with those the ones that need a construction fence we start with because we're going to be doing the larger ones it it's going to be bigger than this piece of paper I don't know that we really need to start redlining this thing I think when you blow it up a little bit it's going to be fine um you know we could bullet point this and then we could fit Spanish along side because it's going to be bigger this is more directed at the worker more than more so than the contractor right the contractor and the worker are two different it's putting everybody on notice right but like for instance I'll give you an example here Construction Dumpsters um and temporary toilets right the worker is not going to be the one putting the toilet or the construction dumpsters that's more the contractor which in theory right should know already the the the the worker needs to understand the hours that they can actually work that the the project needs to be cleaned up the workers need to know they need to use the toilet yeah and we have okay but having it yeah and having them use it are two different things have you not gotten the complaints about workers pissing in backyards I have yeah well but but but but that's you know that that I that would be the only thing that I I see here you know this is more directed at the actual worker yeah than the the contractor yeah that's that I think it should all stay on there and we have room to get it all on there and why not and it puts everybody on notice look the contractors coming by the workers see it and and the property owner to dorene's point the property owner is ultimately the one who's responsible the worker is not getting a ticket not to add more things to it but I was just reading the bottom is you referenc the app could we not put a QR code for the app if sure have that all over the village it's a good chance to to push our app out to more residents yep I'm good with that sure Linda I'm sorry could you step up to the microphone just for the folks on Zoom did you step up to the microphone just for the folks on Zoom okay Linda Dylan 712 15th Street I just have one question you're talking about a banner and I think it's a great idea but we have a sign ordinance as to how large the signs can be in biscane park do this violate our s construction companies have banners that size all over fences all the time I'm not sure that they're legal either good point Thank You Doran can go give Chris a ticket what about if we we modified it to a political sign size sign and have English on one side Spanish on the other I don't think that's going to cut it at all it needs to be a banner on a fence houses that they have exactly exactly they're all over fences all over the village right now I'm sorry are they not allowed dorine there is a size that's allowed the big ones that we uh but that's that's polit those are political signs signs period they have one sign construction sites can have one big sign on a banner is there a limit to how big it can be yes there limit I got here I can read the ordinance yes there we go so it's 12.2.3 B Signs and premises are or building during construction one sign on a premise on a premises or building during construction to give the public warning or to advertise the architect Builder or the materials used in the construction must be erected owner Builders are exempt from this requirement the sign is to include on it the permit contractor's name telephone number state certification number and is not to exceed 3 feet in area and four feet in height fixed to posts not to exceed 1 inch by 1 inch in size at no less distance than 5 feet from the property line and shall be removed upon completion of the building so that's specifically for what contractors are re required to put up Brad could we have our code about our Banner can we don't have to follow that we're not a construction company we're not a contractor We're The Village well we would have we would have to amend 12.2.3 to include the sign okay but that that opens up a whole another can of warms because then the signs that are currently there right those big giant signs with a beautiful picture of the home and it's for sale and all that sounds like some are too big sounds like they're hu they're they're way too big and they're and they don't include they don't include half the stuff that he just said yeah nothing to do with that so that's violations to to those they're bigger than three 3 by4 oh definitely I've seen so you said it's three and no taller than on it so we could so Brad you could amend the code to allow us to have a a larger Banner the contractors are limited but we could do our own thing to have a larger banner yes we just have to be very careful because regulating content of science about what regulating content when you start regulating content you start you start getting getting into issues of first how are we regulating content we're not on this okay just saying you there were some comments about political signs and things oh I know we can't touch those yeah there's some issues with that okay so we could to Arts point the enforcement of banners that are too big that's Cod responsibility and they're aware of it and they're on it and we could at the same time adjust whatever language in our code is required to allow us to do this guys I think we need go I think on this we go big or we go home and I think we just do it right and and see what it does and put everyone on notice and then dorine do you have any opinion on this by the way having this posted at construction sites and having everyone put on notice this is a brilliant idea I just want to make sure that we are following the zoning codes because signs are zoning codes and we can just um change that I'll get with you we'll discuss it and see that I don't know exactly how big the sign's going to be well I I'm suggesting 4x4 the one that I found on Vista Print is 4x4 that's why I just I just wanted to get a number so I didn't come in here and say we should make our own signs and then find out they're $220,000 you know so I went on vist print and there's a four they have bigger ones um but 4x4 seems like a big impact is 4x4 about that it's probably a little bit that's not Square it's proba pretty that went a little bit deeper so you know Brad can you look at that same uh code under 12.2 12.2.1 the first one prohibited signs it says other than Village signs so would that include what we're trying to do here oh what is it 12 point the first line 12 point 12.2.1 that doesn't have anything to do with the size that we're talking about though it's other than Village signs no sign referring to uh public rways and and Village owned property but that's probably the section I would end up amending assuming I'm not violating Zing law and you'd have to put the the size that we're about to consider um what I'd probably the just thinking out loud is always dangerous but what I would probably do is just have a specific exemption for sense signs okay put anything with regards to the size of the sign an exemption and and and not to interrupt you Brad it would re be a really good idea if those signs were just specific for the big construction projects because they right because the construction fences are required that sign could be on that uh temporary construction fence and could come with that permit I think the way they left it that's that's where we're before we started getting into the size of the sign was only this would only this ordinance I'll have to redraft it where it only applies to those sites where where fencing where construction fencing is required so just so but that will now not apply the roofers people installing driveways and things of that nature and we can come back and address that again at a later date if we see there's an if there's still a problem and I think we may because some of these other projects like to Brad's point a roofer doesn't put a fence up but a crane pulls up and lots of trucks pull up and a gigantic dumpster is put in your yard and it's a we're taking little bites out of things and the reality is the truth is that the the biggest violators of all of all of this is really is mostly landscapers landscapers are the worst especially on weekends you mean parking or starting no no noise noise and and and cutting trees code no I I I understand them but you know the harassment of of our neighbors I get a lot of complaints about uh people cutting trees and doing all sorts yeah so I mean but listen you know we take a bite out of this and we're going to affect a certain portion of it it's going to help tremendously we'll see what happens so in that case um what uh I what I would suggest then is we'll do this um we'll have uh Brad come back to us with an amended ordinance can we do it on first reading Brad can we come back to us for first reading never mind and Brad it can because you deferred it right okay as far as the cost of the signs themselves I think what we can do and again up you know you you you make the decision is give them the option look you can buy it from us and this is the cost or you're going to need to you you have to get the same exact sign to place on your pro on the on the property no that's then what who's going to go check the sign to make sure they didn't put the thing on there anyway we're going to have to check the sign I mean if they get take if they take the sign from us who's going to say they're going to put it up anyway I mean we oh we're going to confirm that I understand who's going to go if they took the sign from us we know the right wordings on it we made the sign if they go make a sign it's like on it we can give them something like this and say here this is the sign you to do and it's 4x4 I'm just saying because he was having an issue with selling a sign well I think he he's let me look into it and I'll come back with a draft on first read of and um if that's an issue then I'll try to figure all right okay definitely support uh some kind of uh fine being levied if they don't return the sign the ultimate goal would I would like to return the sign because besides the cost that we're incurring every year making these signs you also have to think of the green initiative of this where basically the sign's going to go in the trash at the end of the constru and we're just going continually make signs and throw them in the trash some of these contractors are doing multiple projects in the village they might actually reuse their signs who knows Yeah but whether we whether we can take a deposit for it or Levy a a high code violation if they don't return it Whatever It Is okay so here are the notes I made just to make sure we're all in agreement we're going to move we want to move forward with this and Brad's going to come back and give us something uh to Arts Point Brad's going to look into whether we can require a deposit and how that would work or if they purchase the sign outright the sign will also be in English and Spanish I think it should also have at least the language that says ask for a copy of these in Creole because there are Creole speaking workers in the village as well um uh Ryan asked for a QR code for the app I think I think that's a fabulous idea um the compromise that we struck is that we will move forward only with the banner and only applied to projects that have that require construction fence and it'll be written into the language there um and Brad is going to look into what he has to do to adjust to provide for the village to be exempt uh from sign code um and that's all the notes I had so does that make sense sounds right to me okay one quick question I just thought of should we discuss whether or not we want the sign on inside facing the construction site of the fence oh it has to face outside facing the street it has to face out then we maybe we should specify that I think that's a good point it has to face out because there's a notice of resonance on here as well yeah I think that should be spelled out and inside they have construction stuff you might just pack it up on the inside thinking it's a notice to workers not on the outside good point question is whether there's a penalty for not ining it will be a code violation so it's just like any other because remember it's it's it doesn't go to the cons to the contractor it goes to the property okay so it sounds like uh we have consensus on summation that uh Mac just gave to us um so I guess we'll look forward to getting and language that the sign has to face out towards the street oh there was one other little detail this you can file this under to onerous which is where a lot of my requests get filed um if I'm being fair um uh Corner properties I think it should be on both sides on each side on each Street facing side because cars park everywhere people walk by it's a mess they don't know who to call and they're not going to see the sign on the other street it's on the corner of blankety blank in 10th Avenue and someone's going down 10th Avenue and there's an issue they don't see the sign there the sign that says how to report is around the corner and they don't see it there what do you guys think about having it on each Street on the street facing side of each Construction I think one would be sufficient yeah the entrance of project there's usually an entrance gate where everybody in and out and I don't want to block by the entrance gate either I thought of that too I mean because the entrance Gates when they're open sometimes they're left open no cover up where the sign is but they should be somewhere in the front where the can we add language that it must be visible at all times that the construction site is functioning Bren I'm G to we can say that it's adjacent into the entrance and or that it has to be visible all the time well I'm going to leave in the the um conspicuously posted language in the ordinance so I that's conspicuously posted has a specific legal meaning yes oh yeah what's it mean it has to be able obvious and able to be SE yeah I think that I think that's language um okay good I was going to request that it fly from a flag pole too I'll I'll just table that exactly one of those guys holding it up in the air okay guys thank you for supporting this I think this is going to be this will make residents really happy too you know that we okay yes yes sure good perspective building official just a small suggestion since you is it recording I don't think it's on okay since this is going to be applied for projects that require a temporary fence I suggest we require it for the temporary fence itself not for the future permit when get somebody gets a temporary fence permit to get the ban started right away before it's tied to the permit for the itself right so even if the construction site isn't active there's no demolition if a fence is up it's got to be there that's it I think that's a good point that's how I was anticipating thank you everybody on the same page I like it thinking of all the ways someone could screw it up okay so that takes care of uh the first item on Old business business the second item on Old business is uh from the manager um discussion on increasing manager purchasing Authority um so Mr manager would you like to just introduce the discussion item for us what I would like the commission to consider is not necessarily increasing the manager's purchasing Authority um but more to um allow the manager to to purchase repair services for existing equipment without the need for three quotes that fall under the manager's purchasing Authority as it sits the situation we're running into is a a repair that's over 2500 um at this point I would have to take that that vehicle or piece of equipment to multiple locations the cost difference in repairs isn't going to be that great and by the time you add in the transportation cost we're spending more than we would on the repair anyway um so that's that's what I'm actually asking for um as part of a larger discussion on purchasing Authority and and what that should be and I'll let the the attorney explain that do you do you have a threshold in mind my recommendation would be 5,000 most of the large repairs that we receive are under that threshold Chris there was an actual example where you had to deal with this not too long ago it was a piece of public what was Itor John Deere tractor and how was that's what you're talking about things like that it's an existing thing that needed to be repaired correct okay how much was that repair I don't know the top of my head okay I think actually that's as an exhibit oh we do I think it's exhibit B if I remember correctly it is it was $3,376 okay um okay that's not what I understood you were bringing to us Chris I thought this was a more sweeping kind of author Authority that you were requesting so you're specifically just asking for that to repair existing equipment correct so if you all look at the second exhibit I had we I had prepared um various different forms of possible language that you all could accept um to accomplish what what Chris was trying to accomplish what he's raising now would be something in line of what's titled exhibit three or examp I'm sorry example three on exhibit example three where it says procurement of maintenance services any contract or purchase of maintenance services for Village equipment may be procured without obtaining additional quotes when it is determined by The Village manager that it is not economically feasible or otherwise feasible to obtain additional quot quotes um however said procurement shall not exceed and you can come up with whatever you're all comfortable with and then a single procurement of maintenance services may not be broken down to amounts less than whatever that amount might be to avoid um the requirements of the section so what that would do that would prohibit and I'm not suggesting the manager would do this but it would prohibit breaking down the repair into several different invoices to to um have it underneath threshold whatever the thresh excuse me that you all set and we have language very similar to that in our purchasing code already that says that that you can't have contracts broken down to manipulate the code so when I read this I understood it differently so now I think I'm understanding it better I think this might be worded a little bit better because it sounds like when I hear the word maintenance it sounds like you need an oil change and repair is the blade broke and we need to go in and get it fixed I think in my mind repairs and maintenance are different things and it doesn't say repair in here so if that's what you're asking for I think that's different than what we're looking at and I'm cool with that because it says any contract it's explain what why the word contract is in there I just don't want it to this to be somehow to be interpreted as I can go buy a new one well I don't think this in any way even if we put procurement of Maintenance or repair services there's no way that you could take example three and go out and buy a new tractor um the reason why the word contract is in there is because technically when you go to when you go to a Tire Kingdom for a back lack of better example and they give you that piece of paper and you're buying four tires and here's what the cost of the installation is they're giving you a warranty you're signing a contract um people don't look at it that way but that is a legally binding contract so if you were to take the tractor to John Deere and they say okay here's the estimate I need you to sign this with a has terms it's technically an agreement or a contract under the law so that's why that's in there so and but the to the manager's point and to your point um commissioner Kennedy um to me the way I would interpret this example is using your example if a mower blade broke and had to be replaced that's maintenance if the tractor is is a total total um loss and has to be replaced that wouldn't fall under example Cur that would be a procurement look what's the value of the tractor if it's over the manager's thresholds he's gonna have to get he's either going to have to put it out for an RFP or he's going to have to get three informal quotes depending on the thresholds and that's what the purchasing code requires so Chris if I heard you correctly you said you you're you want you're looking for five for $5,000 uh is here it says 10 five would be the minimum I use 10 because that's that's the cap of my purchase Authority right so that we wouldn't need the full 10 it's it's however you want to do it for Simplicity sake it can stay at 10 so I know that I have that built-in Authority at to 10 if you'd prefer to have more control five is a reasonable number I would like the word repair in here and the word existing where it says uh a village equipment existing Village equipment so just to be very clear that nothing that procurement cannot this can't be used somehow to go by a used piece of equipment or something so those are my only request it's that repair the word repair be in there an existing Village equipment and I think $5,000 is enough money to we just had a perfect he just had a perfect example of something recently that he's looking to not have to come to us with it was 3,000 bucks okay yeah that's just me I I I agree 5,000 I'm comfortable with 5,000 so you're not voting on anything you're just giving me some direction as to what to draft it's going to be an amendment to your purchase income so if okay so if do we have a consensus on adding the word repair um existing adding the word existing to where it says Village equipment and it shall not exceed $5,000 and a single procurement of maintenance services may not be broken down to amounts less than $5,000 to avoid the requirements of this section that sounds good good okay that'll be a lot easier than the signage I'll get that done glad to hear it okay thanks Brian um um okay so let's go ahead and move on to our next discussion item okay uh the village board's item um so commissioner Kennedy would you like to introduce it for us sure so this is something that I brought up way back in December we had a conversation about it I did not get super enthusiastic response actually in all fairness Jonathan I did from you if I recall um and I wanted to and this was about how Village boards function my items on there I'm sure you all read it I'm not going to read through the whole thing again but we have these boards in some cases they actually save this Village money because they perform functions that we would have to pay for the two guazi judicial boards especially um and then we have other boards that do great things for the village and just you know better our way of life it's all completely free to us except when we pay for things for them obviously but their work is completely free uh and we have we have such a great you know gene pool to pull from in this village where people with so many skills we're very fortunate to have them do this work for us that being said I think the boards could function better and more easily with less frust and that was my point of bringing this up when I did back in December and you'll see I didn't even clean up some of the language so disregard the dates and other things that don't quite line up in there but so it's not as a way to micromanage boards God knows but it's a way to help them get more done faster and with less frustration when I brought this up before like I said it didn't go it wasn't super enthusiastically received and I let it go and I thought I'll just let a little more time go here and see how things go well things have gone from bad to worse I don't know how dialed in you guys are into some of these uh boards and what's going on with them but we have some problems with the boards and they are they have some internal problems they have some conflicts between boards they have some frustrations dealing with the Village um and I hate to see residents who are volunteering their time get frustrated and say I'm not going to do this anymore and that's what's happening so we're losing really good people and or they're that they're quitting or they're just not showing up anymore and just drifting off because they're frustrated and to be clear these boards serve at our pleasure they don't report to the Village they we select we create these boards and we did a couple years ago we added a board that was did something really good for this Village sustainability and resilience um we populate the boards um and we ask them to report back and I think it's our responsibility to help them and the one specific thing that I think we could do that would help them is they have a liaison a commissioner liaison attached to each board not a voting board member not there to run meetings to be there to be at meetings and to act as a liaison with between the board and the village and to help them understand better what it is the commission wants and then they have a voice on the commission and we can make it part of what we report back if I were I'm going to make up a board I'm I'm not going to make up one because I don't want to make it look like I want a particular board assigned to me because I don't care which one I would get um but I would attend their meetings I would make sure that I was clear on what the commission wanted from the board if they were working on a project or whatever and make sure I helped communicate that with them report back any frustrations anything they need encourage them to get reports submitted and just have the lines of communication open we have one one two three four boards we have three boards that aren't functioning right now and it's and it's largely for the reasons I just laid out and I think I've talked to the boards I've gone to their meetings and said would this help I did before I brought it up in December and they're like yeah that would be great and it didn't happen and they were a little FR some of them were a little frustrated that it didn't happen and then I talked to them again and they seem very enthusiastic about it and they they love when I show up for meetings I don't Ryan you're new I know you you did show up for the parks meeting last month um but they love when a a commissioner shows up and they feel like they have kind of the inside track on something and they have someone there listening and who cares and I think if we just formalize that a little bit by attaching someone to each of the non-de judicial boards at least that we could smooth things over and make everyone happier to be doing stuff for us and just to make it all much more pleasant and productive that's all I'm suggesting I am not suggesting that we Strongarm these boards that we run these that we go in and run these boards uh uh that and I'm certainly no we can't go there and vote uh or you know to and we and Brad would make sure we're clear on you know what we would be allowed to do and what we would not be allowed to do I spoke with Pamela about this before a meeting Pamela I think if memory serves it was that December meeting you and I chatted about it it may have been during the meeting and at another municipality where you worked and I don't want to say a name but you expressed that they did have something like this and that sometimes there were issues that people didn't know exactly what Lane they were supposed to be in and maybe that wasn't made clear to everybody or maybe it was and they chose not to stay in their Lane let's not go there but um uh I think we need to look for the best it could be and not look at the worst examples of it and I just want our help I want our boards to be populated and happy and productive and getting stuff done and I want them to be really really happy that they're doing stuff with the Village um okay thanks commissioner Kenedy um yeah I remember when this came up the first time um and we were talking about trying to do something to to help the boards along um I if I remember correctly I think at the Times people like well we don't want to influence we don't want to be like the you know the looming Big Brother sort of thing um but look if this is something that the boards want if if they're interested if they want us great then we can act and to to your point about um the discussion with the clerk um in discussions with other municipalities I've heard they said well what board you liais on to so are of course other municipalities that do this so maybe you've had elected officials ask you that like what board do you yeah work with Jonathan interesting I didn't know that so um what do we think for a trial period we want to do that's kind of what I wrote In Here initially was a a certain finite period of time that we would go and meet with them and then come back here and report right right going yeah exactly kind of almost like a status it's like okay for three months I attended their meetings I met with them I talked to their members outside of meetings didn't break sunshine and here's kind of what's going on this Board needs members this board could use more members than the five that we all lot to them here's what they're kind of asking for I one kind of I guess procedural question when it comes to the other boards is are all the other boards fully set up and take advantage of Zoom right now because if right I didn't think so so if one of us is is unable to make it it would be helpful to have that would we be able to implement zoom capabilities for all the boards so we could dial in and be there remotely short answer is yes without much what's the longer answer without is it a huge hassle we would need to look into licensing for each individuals we wouldn't let them use the villages Zoom account um I have no idea what that would cost or what that would look like um they would have to use this computer or no they would have to use this computer and be trained on how to use the cameras and everything else um they would have to sit up here yeah the recording part of it there's there's a lot that goes into it so like I said short answer yes well maybe we just try it for this trial period without and see how that goes look I travel a lot for work so I'm one of the ones that might wish I could zoom in sometimes but I also control my own schedule so knowing when their meetings are on the dates that they are I would coordinate my travel around that I'm here tonight because I blew home last night to be here so I would make sure I was here see mayor yeah of course I if you're G especially if you're going to do a trial period but even if you were to implement this I would be very cautious um the a zonning with quasi judicial boards um I think that I think that's a very bad idea I suggested that we don't do that and I'm not suggesting that other jurisdictions don't do it they may very well do it but you are you are the elected Commissioners and the last thing you want is an well several things one is an allegation that somehow you influenced a board's decision on a quasa Judicial matter and also when it comes to certain some certain these boards um matters that are before them like variances are actually going to come before you where you're going to be acting as quasi judicial officers making determinations and it's going to create conf potential conflicts if a matter comes before you all in a quasi judicial Manner and you were making comments or somehow um addressing that board and somehow affecting their decision so I I would be very careful with that and I would also remind you because and I know in a lot of our meetings when you all addressed the foundation you you and I'm not suggesting it's to you mean it this way but you use the term where you kind of mesh them in with boards with not the village they are not a board they are a separate corporate entity um they have one member and only one member which is you all collectively and you appoint Boards of director to um to to operate and run the daily operations for that Corporation we have a liaison to the foundation I'm don't know that I'm I don't know that I'm really in favor of that because I think there's similar issues where the these the board of directors you've all trust you've all entrusted the board of directors to take votes and operate that entity on on The Village's behalf and you've done that collectively as a governing body and to have one member attending those meetings and and again it it comes back similar to an issue that I have that I've expressed without repeating myself as with the Quasi judicial board so that that kind of gives me some angst so what if Brad what if what if we talked about doing this but not in the context of going appearing at each of these meetings but rather just informally assigning a board so by by way of example if we were to go forward with this tonight under the assumption or under the direction that we're not going to these meetings and acting as the official liaison and and putting ourselves out to the public as the commiss this commissioner is here as the official liaison right to to avoid that imp potential uh potential impropriety what if we were to just say Okay um I'll act as Lia on the foundation I'll just reach out to the foundation like twice a month have you know have a call with with the with the chair or whomever get a report on how they're doing what they're doing what they sort of open the door for the same kind of problem well that's what I'm not necessarily so so if if you all it doesn't have to be the foundation reach out you're all going to reach out and so instead of being at the meetings um somehow involving be resolving disputes between board members between members of One board and other boards instead of getting into that interaction if you're going to for instance if if it's the arts and culture board and the mayor is assigned the the arts and culture board is going to call up the chair or have a conversation with the chair hey how's everything going is there anything you need from us I can bring it back to the commission um any concerns things of that nature um and and reaching out to other members individ obviously you can't reach out to them and discuss board me in a group because it would be a sunshine violation and then report back during you know hey you know I was talking to some of the members of the resiliency board separately and they had these concerns and maybe we can help address them as a collegial body I don't have a problem with that it's more being there at the time and I understand as as residents you have a right to attend these board meetings and and and you have a right to speak and during public comment but you also have to as you all know have to be very very careful making it very clear to the extent that you can that you're not addressing those boards as as a member of the elected commission you're doing it as a as a resident how those members is still yeah you know how do these other communities have Liaisons to boards then so in the context that I brought it up I just had someone ask me are you a leaz to another board it wasn't do you go to the me it was it was just that kind of I don't know how you liaz with the board if you don't go to their meetings what calling five members and having separate conversations and getting five versions of what's going on I'm not saying that other jurisdictions don't do it I'm just not what I has some experience because other jurisdictions do it doesn't make it right and I just see I just gives me some with with the Quasi judicial boards i' completely get it and with the foundation because of the way they're set up legally I was speaking more of the non- Quasi boards AM wants to say something well I mean I've seen this go really well and I've seen it go really bad really bad in the sense of like you said you have to know your lane my experience has been when Commissioners are assigned as Leons if they take on the role of there for informational purposes only meaning all of you can't attend the meetings because of sunshine so one commissioner attends just to get the information of what's going on with the board to report back to the commission as a whole you don't speak at the meetings you don't run the meetings I mean if you asked the question but you don't take on the role of being an active participant you're only there to get the information of what's happening with the board so your commission as a whole can know what's happening and they don't attend as far as like Foundation type boards I've sat on those boards for cities there's never been a Lon from the commission on that board because they are a separate entity and they do things that you as a commissioner don't want to be involved in raising money accepting donations um you know those kinds of things so as long as you guys set out the rules like the the attorney said you know um I've Li onset on code and zoning boards and I will tell you it became a big political thing you know the commissioner who gets to sit with the code board the commissioner who gets to sit with the zoning board so you do want to stay you know I would suggest that you stay away from those kinds of things I think to Jonathan's point about having a trial period I think would be a nice compromise so and in the in I guess in that in that context before before we go even any any further do we have a majority of support for doing this either by being in person or more tacitly being assigned to a board and just kind of speaking with them taking the temperature see what they need maybe may maybe they the way we do it is if if everybody is is interested in doing so maybe we do it on the trial period for two to three months whatever we decide and we do so kind of in the format that you feel comfortable with so in excluding quasi judicial I think excl Foundation because of the roles that they play but let's just use arts and culture for example if if I was to get arts and culture and I say I want to speak to each of the board member separately and that doesn't necessarily mean I need to be at the meeting then that's fine that works because there's going to still be accountability at each regular commission meeting where it comes back and that board report comes up and you could say uh you know commissioner whomever um what did you hear or what do you have any to report so maybe what we do is is again if everyone feels that uh that we have majority support for it is do this on a a uh kind of a conditional trial basis and we do it in a format in which however you feel you need get you can get the information but it's only three boards because we're not we're talking about excluding the two quasi judicial boards and the foundation that's not a board but I didn't know we were excluding them entirely thought it was just excluding the fact of being there if I wanted to reach out to say the chair of the foundation to say hey how's everything going is there anything that you want to bring to the Commissioners anything we can help with would that be acceptable even with a foundation I think you can do that anyway you can do it anyway having appoint anybody ason to do that right right to that extent I think yes um what about what about the quasa judicial can can someone even serve in that capacity if I was to say reach out to code kind of informally like that if you were to reach out to the chair and say hey you're just trying to figure out if there's anything we can do to help is there any issues you're having you know not asking about specific and that no cases yeah and I think that's to the point where one of the things that the clerk has mentioned you know you're going if you're there and you have this title liaison or you're there because now you're there as a commission if you're there as a as a liaison you're going to be asked questions some of those questions you may be able to answer some of and this is really putting you in a place and some of them you can't answer and you should be answer and you're going to have to make those decisions on the spot and I've been at me look attended all the board meeting not every single board meeting but I've attended meetings for every board um and sometimes they introduce me at the meeting so I've been introduced at the planning board meeting where they say commissioner Kennedy's here and everyone turns around I just kind of wave I'm kind like I'm just trying to sit here in the back road and observe I was asked a question by Dorene at a code compliance meeting she asked me to step up to the microphone and answer a question and it was a very soft easy thing and I kind of didn't say very much but um whenever you walk in the room you're a commissioner you know I can't come in and say I'm MAC just just I'm just playing old Mac tonight it's like no I'm I take that title with me wherever I go unfortunately I have it at Altis you know sometimes so um [Music] um now would this Pro because would there be noticing uh issues if we knew well I don't how does that work for no because I go to meetings and I don't ever tell you I'm going to a meeting and I've attended meetings with another commissioner yeah and I always like will avoid them I'll say hello and sit on the other side of the room you know and don't engage with them I think a better practice is one to be we but you can do what you're saying um and but it just that yeah that becomes the problem if one commissioner you're saying if one commissioner walks into a meeting and another commissioner's there you should leave I'm saying that's that's probably the best practice I'm I was never told that before I was just told you can't discuss anything not saying you're required to do it okay Sunshine Law you can't discuss anything amongst yourselves that that will become before you I don't I don't even talk to them but I I've just seen the allegations fly in other jurisdiction that's all I'm saying not okay what do we want to do here I mean to your question I mean obviously I'm in favor I brought it and I'd be in favor of a short-term thing maybe we run it through the look we have an election in November and we have as many as three new Commissioners being sworn in in December so some of us may not even be here if we choose to run or not so it maybe maybe we just kind of run it up to that period of time and it could be a Handover here's what I'm here's kind of like my report as my final harah before I leave the commission or U maybe October August to October August through October like November because November November is the election they get sworn in and they show up at their first meeting and I guess you could just run it up through the November meeting okay up to August September October yeah do it up to end of October the point I was trying to make let me say I'm I'm fully in support of this I'll take a board tomorrow one of my questions and concerns I have is what if a commissioner says no what if a commissioner says this voluntary and I don't have the time I don't want to do it does a board get excluded does a board does someone does a commissioner pull double duty and do two well we only have three we only have three boards thought we were in the consensus that the the Quasi Judiciary you would do you just don't do it in person you would leate afterwards and that's my other question is how do pick we just draw straws do we go by seniority as a commission commissioner I don't know I mean I guess we could just all talk about what we want to do I was I was down for drawing straws I mean I was I was willing to just say look I I I used to serve on the foundation so I would act in that capacity of the foundation um well the way I put it down here to come when I was trying to come up with 51 for each commissioner I had the two quasi boards on together because there's like less you can really do and it's more observation and d da da and I thought well we have an attorney on the commission and they quasi and Jonathan will probably probably color inside the lines better and you were on the foundation so I was that was going to be my suggestion which one the first or the second both both take the two quasi ones because there's less look they're not coming to us with stuff they're just running cases you know so it's more of a perun I see those two boards as being more of a perfunctory liaison as like what do you need you need another member you know having some issues you're suggesting a code you you guys are suggesting a code change with that about poor Veronica that's not here maybe she she's gonna get the what happens when you don't come to a meeting she's very thrilled to again under with the Quasi judicial boards again under the the under the understanding that commissioner isn't going and being the official commissioner in the room at the time like I I can more kind of tcid in emailing and kind of following up if that's if that's appropriate from what you're saying then then I'm comfortable with it it's permissible is what I'm gonna say look Brad Brad's job is to keep us all safe and from and and no and keep us drama free I completely trust you of all people to be the quas and look it's only until the end it's it's August September October and then we report back and we see where it goes from there we may say you know what we kind of fixed some things we cleaned up some things we tighten some things and now we're going to go on our merry way without this or we continue it for some boards and not others and you're going to have as many I mean you're going to be here you and Veronica will um but you may have as you you may have three new people setting up here and then that will be discussion they may want to they might say yes we definitely want to do this or no we don't I I'm comfortable doing it and I'll very closely adhere to your Council red the planning board and code is Jonathan y made the code manager happy you have something to say Dorene she's just happy it wasn't me let's just be clear on that she's not happy it is you thaty it's not me what do you guys want my two picks would be parks and Parkways or sustainability um I would take any of them I have an the whole plant thing I just love to death and I recently recruited some people to be on that board so we could get it going again and I have a good relationship with them so I would like Parks uh I love what arts and culture does as well the whole party planning thing I love that uh but I'll take anything that I'm just happy to have one that I can help you don't have to get new hand towels sound reasoning all I love it so then ma Mac if you want Parks then I'll take sustainability okay and then that would leave Veronica with the foundation y yeah okay so we again we're talking August August and if comes to the next meeting and says guys I don't want to do this and she doesn't have to we're not obligating her to do it any one of us right now could say I'm not doing it it up sure so she doesn't want to so we're talking at least for for the the months right now of August September October yep okay August through October okay okay so just to be clear it's um sustainability and resilience is Ryan Parks is Me Foundation is Vero art is Art and uh Palm Beach Palm Beach have PB in my notes planning board and code is Jonathan good mind your mind your pq's Jonathan watch it eyes are on you okay guys thank you I I think this is needed right now I think it's I think it's a good idea all the time and to Pamela's very good you know points that she made she's seen it go wrong let's just make go right we have the choice to screw it up or do it right so let's just choose to do it right okay um so if there's nothing further on the The Village board's item uh let's go ahead and move on to the landlord permits um vice mayor I think this is your item correct yes it is thank you okay uh so we've all heard the complaints from residents about the landlord inspections it's it's been emails I've been getting I know you guys been getting the same emails so once I started getting these emails I decided to start researching it see what the Florida laws are what other cities do make sure we're tracking in the same way in doing that I started noticing other municipalities repealing their laws uh another municipality got sued for having their landlord permits because there was a change in the State Statute in October I brought that to Brad Brad took a look at it and he said yes that this law has changed and we're by his reading in violation of state law so at that point I realized we need to talk about this as a commission and make sure we amend our codes and laws so that way we are back in in compliance with state law so it's uh Brad can fill us in more on what the state law says or what we can and cannot do it kind of leads into like their short-term rentals it it regulates it all and preempts it all to the state so there some there's some changes that need to be made there well it's not short-term rentals no I know but it's like that I'm saying it's like short-term rentals that they're preempting mayor if I may yeah please so there is a you good okay I think he turn it over to me all sorry sorry so there there there is a Florida statute which is 83.4 to5 um it's one of the many areas in which the legislature in the last several years have preempted um Municipal regulation of certain subject areas um what it specifically does is it preempts the regulation of residential tencies the landlord tenant relationship and all of the matters that are covered in chapter 83 which is the landlord tenant chapter chapter of of Florida Statutes um to to the state for regulations and it includes I'm reading straight from the statute including but not limited to the screening process used by a landlord and improving tencies security deposits rental agreements applications and fees associated with such applications terms and conditions of rental agreements the rights and responsibilities of the landlord tenant disclosures concerning the premises the dwelling unit the rental agreement or the rights and respons possibilities of the landlord and tenant he's charged by a landlord or notice requirements so essentially as as I interpret this statute as well as many of my colleagues throughout the state and in my office as well we preface it with that is that this is a preemption where municipalities are prohibited by the state of regulating of regulating residential tendencies in any way as you all know your present scheme is chapter um 16.15 for landlord permits is just that it's it's a permitting process a definition a permitting process is issuing permission for a entity or or conduct to occur so essentially what that that in itself is a regulation um so there are several there are several components of of of this of 1615 that in my opinion violate the preemption um and it's in need of either full repeal if that's what the commission so desires based on the um preemption statute or it can we we can revise it but it's going to be much watered down and what I would anticipate revising it to if if that's what you all desire and I've talked to the manager about this and we believe we might we can find a public purpose but what I'm what I'm going to suggest is that this changes from a landlord permit process to a landlord registration process the purposes that the village has an interest in knowing who the owners are who the responsible people for these for these um establishments or the structures in the case of emergencies um in case for some reason you know there's code violations we need to contact the owners whatever it might be so that we can require the owner of these rental properties to register either themselves or somebody else as the responsible person like the registration process process for short-term rentals cor with a contact information so that we can so that we can the village can reach out to them if need be um there can be a fee for the registration it would have to be based on what the actual costs are for running the program um and that's something we we could come up with and determine um however a good amount of the requirements to this present scheme of your ordinance would have to be um repealed and one of them is the inspection process would have to be appealed that that is a regulation um we can there there's various I do you want I don't know if you want me to go through all of them or or can I before you do that general question about it so I read all of this and I listened to what you just read and you read what is in the backup and what no I'm not an attorney did I ever tell you that Brad I'm not an attorney shocked I know you play one on exactly um but when I read it that's not what I'm reading when I when I read when I read those words I'm not what I'm hearing when you read that to me and when I read it it's to me it says we can't interfere in the relationship between the landlord and the tenant we can't say you can't rent to that person we don't like that person you're not charging them enough you're charging them too much you shouldn't require a deposit you should allow them to have that dog that you don't want them I don't read that we're I I read what you read I hear what you read as saying stay out of that relationship whereas I what I view our landlord registration whatever we call it now it's more about the property it's making sure that the property is rentable so we're we're sticking our nose if we're sticking our nose in something and this is is sort of how my understanding in in making sure that property is rentable in very much the same way we do when a property is going to be sold there is some kind of a process that some maybe we'll want dorine up here because I'm sure we're going to have dorine your your Department's doing these inspections right yeah so the same way when a property is being sold there is some kind of a process that has to that the property has to undergo what is that called the reoccupancy reoccupancy and you're going in there making sure that it's you know the zoning is right and exactly it seems to me we're doing the same thing there because I'm sorry just to finish that we have that opportunity because a property's being sold and in a rental situation we don't have that but someone else is going be moving into it and we're making sure that all none of those things have been impacted in the period of time that that person lived in there before it's rented again so just just to this is a matter of statutory interpretation and I think when you interpret a statute you have to interpret it it's plain meaning I've looked at the legislative notes when this was enacted it doesn't give much guidance it's what they were trying to accomplish but when you look the way it's read the way it's written and you look at the punctuation I I I disagree with your interpretation and the reason why is the way it and I'm going to give it I'm going to read the first sentence to you but with the punctuation it says the regulation of residential Tendencies comma the landlord t L landlord I may not be able to read it to you tenant relationship comma and all other matters covered under this part are preempted to the state so it's specifically saying the regulation of residential Tendencies along with these other areas is now preempted to the state what is a regulation a regulation I happen to have a definition is defined as relating to the control or direction of an activity by a set of rules laws Etc um so you're you're essentially what you're in my opinion what your ordinance does is regulates in many different Fashions not just the landlord tenant relationship but it regulates the existence and operation of residential tencies and the regulation of those residential tencies is what the legislature by its own words see and I and I and I hear what you're saying and what I have always thought what we do I've I've always thought it applies to the building that it's not about the tency that it's about the building and going through there and making sure the building is what it's supposed to be and this is where you would catch and this is the example I was told before because when I first became a commissioner I had this conversation with someone I don't know who it was someone at the Village maybe a manager I'm not certain that it was really about going in there and making sure it was the right number of bedrooms and bathrooms and that and yeah exactly and that that's what these so can you explain what you do at a reoccupancy I'm GNA ask you a big question could you explain what it is you're doing there and for the for the reoccupancy when a property sells and what you're doing for the landlord permits and then tell us what are the kinds of things that you find that are objectionable to the Village I have one more question if you can answer this one as well and that is um does have you as long as you've been here have you seen this applied across the board or is it mainly towards multifam home multif family um like duplexes triplexes whatever or or or or have you seen single homes we do apply this across the board and I'm coming to your um questions um we have about five um residents that have not allowed us to do physical inspections they do the application they go through the process but they have never allowed code to go inside the property and um do inspections the way the WR the code is written as it is now we shouldn't even issue that license or the permit without that inspection now what that inspection is about is to ensure that the landlord or the reoccupancy which one the I'm I'm on the landlord per landord okay and I will get back to the so that inspection is to ensure that that property is habitable there are a lot of Slam Lords you you all um may be aware of this there are people who will rent a property to someone without hot water with lead um paint and we don't inspect for Le lead paint but there are jurisdictions that will do an inspection that is more rooms without eress windows and safety things we are more minimum standards which is safety we make sure um there are no safety hazards monoxide um those wires exposed wires and safety hazard do things there's no sewer running in the house it's clean it's habitable but isn't that the responsibility of the owner or doesn't the the the property uh the liability piece is not ours to assume in any way absolutely not it's really the owner's liability and responsibility and the and the renter right it is the owner's responsibility and the rent but we can say that about any property in the village of bisc Park why are we concerned about someone not diing up their property why are we not why are we concerned about short-term rentals and what can happen in a short-term rental we are concerned about safety as code safety uh people's welfare um their health does the county require this or is this is this because I don't think the county requires yes it does it the county in fact our our I'm not sure if this code was written based on the County requirements but the way we enforce it is we go by what the County requires by the count the the County Rental code requires what when you say the county requires the county has a rental cold I think I printed and why doran's getting because here's the thing this and here's where why part of the reason why I I believe this is Regulatory and I almost hate doing this in in a public meeting but the reason why an IND an individual property owner who has a residential tency under your code has to allow an inspector is because what your code says by by the fact that we allow by we the fact that we The Village issue you a permit authorizing you to rent your property you are consenting to the Village coming on your property in order to do the inspection right doesn't require a permit to rent your properties my not that I'm aware of no no they don't well that's what I was saying with that so exactly so if the county doesn't do it right and the county does everything for money right when you get a business license in in in in the city of Miami you got to get a a County License as well whether it's Miami Beach whatever City you're working at you also got to get a County license so if the county doesn't require you to do this then why do we require this um I'm not sure why the village requires it but I'll say I understand why they require it because you just said the reason why we require it's really more it's for the benefit of renters is how I benefit of renters and that's why I mentioned the rental code you should look into that Brad the county did have a rental code that they were very strict about um tenants are not usually protected by any laws that um federal laws and and and maybe this is why this Florida statute came about and what most municipalities did was to ensure that um tenants are protected by inspecting these properties to make sure they're hitable for them I've I've worked in the city of Miami Beach and I'll tell you that I've been to properties where you entered the unit and there are roaches I mean this is a property that someone is paying money for there are roaches in the house there are termites that every kind of thing and these tenants were not protected by by anyone but us but code off officers going in there inspecting these properties and making sure they are habitable did you ever see safety concerns absolutely exposed wires no uh fire extinguishers no monoxide detectors no smoke detector personally have been in properties to do inspections like this in other municipalities and S here in biscan park here in biscane park okay that was going to be my next question so in biscane park you have personally entered rental properties and had to site them we've had to deny the permit them or deny the permit or both deny the permit until they fix um and then you go back in and inspect to make sure that they get it to minimum standards correct so did the city of you were you worked in the city of Miami Beach right yes sir did the city of Miami Beach also require a permit to rent private property so the city of Miami Beach is different the way they did do it is they have a housing authority and their Housing Authority goes by federal standards HUD which are more stricter this is a like a 300 page thing that they have their standards are way more stricter than our minimum standards we just do basic inspections but they do much more but a private homeowner if I'm a private homeowner Mi Beach which I live for 25 years and I wanted to rent my house the city did not require me to get a permit or an inspection or anything else in order to rent my house what the city of Miami Beach does is if you want to do any kind of business in the city of Miami Beach whether it's selling lunch at a at a construction site rent your house business uh business tax receipt yeah BTR yeah so but again and I'm sorry that included renting yeah I don't think rental is a business do not rental is considered a business it is not it's not under the business tax renting a property a rental renting a single family home or an apartment I'm not talking about you renting out an apartment like being a management company but if you're renting if you're renting out your home you are not required in in in Miami D County anywhere to get a business tax receipt so it's not required in Miami Dade County and some municipalities require it we currently are and you're saying the state has preempted this and in your opinion the way you read it it's not exactly what I see but I'm going with what you're saying that they're saying we anything that sort of steps into that tenant landlord relationship we're taking that away well the landlord relationship absolutely they've said you cannot no and we're not doing that just to be clear we're not doing anything we do actually what do we do our ordinance does involve itself in the landlord what I'm sorry before you answer that can we've never enfor that though okay can you just say into the microphone the kind of safety issues and habitable Hab habitability issues you have you and your staff have witnessed in biscane park let's limit it to our we've been to a home in biscane park where we found a room that didn't have a window uhuh for for instance FBC does not allow bedroom to not have a window so monoxide um detectors we've been in several homes that don't have monoxide detectors fire extinguishers um and those are required exposed wires um we've been in homes one home where we saw some termites one home was reported with mold inside the house we inspected wom mean we don't really violate people for mold mold but mold can be dangerous depending on what type of mold okay so you're seeing rooms with no means of egress if there was a fire someone would die in that that was a major safety for me so so in other words this is what I wanted to hear this is not a conceptual thing in reality in practice in biscan park these things are happening absolutely and you guys are stopping it from happening through the process that we have in place and you are protecting people's lives as a result I just want that on record okay the other thing to consider just one more thing is um a lot of people that rent out their properties especially single family homes divide their homes and change things around in the house and there will be a lot of code violations now where code violations are concerned there will be major safety issues there will be major health issues and the reason most people don't want us to go in their house is to recognize or observe these violations and you didn't and they didn't get a permit for them and if they don't get permits I mean they can so the five individuals that haven't let you into their homes currently right what's the status on they're not renting their homes or empty their homes are being rented and I've uh tagged them red I was hoping to have a long discussion with Brad I think I sent him an email the other day on how to go about because they site the the federal laws and say you know we have rights and people can walk into that house the owner is or the renter is the property owners so have any rent renters the people who are living in the units have they said you can't come in or is it the property owners who are saying Property Owners it's the property owners well of course it is you have a they're the ones that are goingon to have be caught doing things and and exposing danger right so let's let me just put this quickly okay what they're what they're asserting is they have a Fourth Amendment right to be to have to be enjoyment of their home the government can't intrude in your home without process process being a court order or some type of exent circumstance the exent circumstance has to be known there we have to in order for let's use police for it or just the government in general in order for the Gen the government in general to intrude into the four corners of my home and invade my home they either need a court order which is some type of Warrant or court order to allow them to come in or they need to know that there is in in the code World we'll say Public Safety Health welfare situation where there is irreparable harm that's taking place there's some basis there's some evidence to suggest that so other than that the government cannot come into my door inside my door unless I tell them it's okay what your ordinance does in its present form it says you've given we've given you a permit and because we gave you a permit you need to open your door and let us in and that that's regulatory in in nature and if you don't let us in you can't rent your property out that that is what in my opinion is preempted in the in in a nutshell uh from by a state statute but to ask your comment about um about the landlord the ordinance does address issues that are relevant to landlord tenant relationships for instance 16157 talks about tenant documents says prior to executing a lease for the dwelling unit covered by the permit an applicant will provide each tenant with a copy of Florida chap statute chapter 8 3 which is residential Tendencies and the preemptions part of that chapter chapter 1615 of of the city code um you have obligations in here in 161 15.8 where to pursue lawful remedies in which um as a condition of of getting a permit the owner or designated agent of the property if there's repeat violations of certain ordinances by a tenant or a guest of of a tenant that they will pursue legal remedies with regards to um termination of the rental agreement failure to comply with provisions of the lease and things of that nature you're dictating in this ordinance that the landlord this is how the landlord has to deal with their tenant if they're violating the lease what if we removed that well in my opinion I it I mean I understand that has to go there's no doubt that has to so there are some things in there that really just absolutely have to go because if I if I heard what you were saying there's language in there that says uh landlord you have to provide this documentation to your tenants and this is how you have to treat your tenants and this is how you have to treat them okay so that I understand over steps so how does the state in its preemption saying that uh say that uh tenants and prospective tenants should be uh made safe there are statutes that deal with well first of all your code itself the Florida building code itself deals with the safety of of residences so clearly if I I understand the inspection I understand the need and I'm not negating the fact that no I know you're not arguing against it my concern is liability for the village no no no I get it I get it so so you have building codes we have code you have parts of your own village code that prevent people from living in places without electricity and running water prevent people but we have to know about it right it's like any other code enforcement you have to have information right you have to investigate it you make a determination you cite about it not when a tenant's afraid of not having a place to live especially these days and the Tenant is who knows their their St together discount and they certain let me just say let me just say two things number one I can promise you there's tons of people in this Village right now renting their homes without permits I I can I can I'm sure of that uh and and number two look if it's legal what we're doing then I don't see an issue with it as long as it's legal if it's not legal then I have a problem with it that's all that's what it that's I mean that's it so if it's legal it is what it is great you know we'll catch 10% of the renters okay um but if it's not legal then we just gotta it's the same with any other code violation that's it yeah so who what other municipalities are doing this Brad or did you look into that Ryan who who still has these on the books I'm not aware of any municipality that's enforcing it I know some of the municipalities repealed their ordinances um some of them still have them on the books but they're not enforcing it for instance I I talked to a colleague in Coral Springs it's still on their book uh their books excuse me but they are not they're not enforcing it at all it's just there they haven't taken it off so we do a reoccupancy cert certificate is that what it's called for for when a property sells could we do that could we require it how we would enforce it I don't know but could we require it when a tency changes that it would be a reoccupancy when a tenant leaves and another before another one moves in all that how would we know that that would be very difficult how do you well how do you know when a property sell because they have to get something from you to close don't they well it in the ordinance that they have to have a reoccupancy before they sell the property so the seller has to come and get a reoccupancy and I was going to answer your question what a reoccupancy um inspection is it's a zoning inspection where we go to clarify the zoning of the zoning District of the property it's not to count the bedrooms if the uh property is situated in a single family yep um um District it has to be that it can be converted to duplex and have an example of that here in the next block where there's a single family zone right here and it's a Triplex now right so that happens too and and that's what we the reoccupancy inspection is for is to ensure that people are not changing the property from the zoning that that um it should be um have we had violations like that in the village of bisai a lot of them and that's an example right there yeah guys know that right that happens in biscan park people are turning single family hones into duplexes and triplexes and that happens everywhere yeah I know we want to catch it and without our inspections we wouldn't be able to determine yeah exactly you would I have a quick question about Rak just just for my own uh sake if if it's not done right um the sale of the house still is going to get sold so the issue really then becomes that once it's sold then then you can how what would you do that at that point I mean how what what what recourse do you have is it towards the old owner is it towards the new owner is is it NADA so once they sell the property we can only issue violations to the current owner so once a person sells the property and they modify the property we really can't issue a violation to the new owner I'm talking about doing it without a reoccupancy selling and actually sing that it happens they do it all the time they do it all the time and the only way we come to know this all the property is we are trying to S sign comes down and and I think there's language in our code if I'm not mistaken during this reoccupancy inspection that it says the code officers may not cite other violations that they see that's another important thing yes thank you for that um with these reoccupancy inspections we are not allowed by law to even if we saw a violation there to issue a violation you would have to get an independent report about it or something to initiate a report on that thing so if you walked in for a reoccupancy inspection and saw the house modified we can on that inspection correct even if you know it to be true you're there to make sure it meets zoning requirements I mean it's happened that property that's about to be sold on Griffin Road they changed the garage and they Chang they enclosed one of the rooms inside and I couldn't I didn't issue the reoccupancy I told them to reconvert the building before I could do that um they did that just for the inspection they changed everything back and then they put it back because now the property is for sale and the new owner came and said but why is the garage the way it is I'm like but I told the man to change they they do it all the time hard yeah um it's difficult to control that Daren thank you uh I want to kind of refocus for a second because I see this from what we've heard from Brad that this is a purely legal issue purely we what Brad has told us it's it's his opinion and that of his colleagues and in um around the state is that we have certain certain regulations on our books that do not comply with the new Florida statute so there's really nothing we can do about that unless M what you were what you're getting at you're laying this record for you're talking about an appeal to the Florida Supreme Court challenging the law so what if we were to keep any of this these items that Brad is recommending that we remove and we just test the waters we would we test litigation and we basically have to assert certify up to the Florida Supreme Court to say that they've preempted and that we've been we've suffered damage because of it and try to you know get the law stricken so I really only see it as as a one or zero we go to Brad and we say Brad come back to us and come to us with an edit of the code that's affected by this Florida statute strike what we need to strike we'll consider it um and we'll go from there but there are things that we cannot enforce well I guess the other option is is you take the interpretation and the commissioner Kenedy is taken with regards to the interpret quote me well no I'm just reading words I get it we you take your I'm just saying we're talking options so the other option is you take the which I I don't NE take we take the interpretation that they're not regulating they're not preempting all regulations only landlord tenant relationships and other other matters addressed in chapter 83 you you falls into that bucket of challenging of challenging the law and well we don't necessarily have to Challen no not we guess my point right we can remove the the language dealing with landlord tenant leave the permit rest of the permitting process as is including the inspections you already have at least five property owners that are refusing inspections you site them for violations of the code and they're going they're going to end up taking it to Circuit Court and and get a decision from Circuit Court either they'll the circuit court judge will agree with us or not and then it'll go on its on its way through the appell it process right possibly up to right I'm sorry Court of Florida the Supreme Court of the United States you're right that I do want you to quote me I want to be on record on that one he's right that many cities and jurisdictions have let go of the landlord and and I agree with um the commissioner and what he's um trying to bring to the attention of the commission this can be done differently maybe as a registration tenants always report code violations if they're in the property we don't we do these inspections to protect them but they will call if the water is not hot or the stove is not working so either way some do not all not all let me say this I I I don't wish I wish we weren't doing this I wish this wasn't a law I wish the law hasn't changed I wish we wouldn't have the CH make the change I understand your job is to Pro uh protect Life Safety you're here for life safety issues with these inspections but what our job here is is is to listen to our attorney and to protect the village and to comply said to wait to be sued is not something I w't want to do I don't want to be the first case of the law or a second case because there already was one lawsuit Cas a first impression I don't want to be the the the lawsuit that makes it on Miami Herald because we we didn't enforce a state law so I see it as we have to listen to our attorney and we have to protect ourselves from litigation and make the appropriate changes that he re but I would be interested in that registration alternative we can do that I think what I can do is I can do and maybe we do it as it well well two things I would maybe we do that as a discussion item where I can put it before you on a on a draft and we can discuss it and try to work it if there's things that you want to add we can discuss whether or not they can be added so we're not doing that in between first and second read um but what I would also suggest and and I can tell you that um between um the the code manager the manager and I um when when we C when we discussed these these five tenants and what the next steps were we made a uh we made a decision to kind of place a very temporary because we knew we were going to be discussing this today but a very temporary um Auditorium for lack of better terms on enforcing the INSP the required inspection under the ordinance so that we had some guidance from the commission before we took next steps um so I would we would certainly ask or I would ask that you all give u a consensus to continue that moratorium at at the very least until we come up with another scheme can I ask another I've got a very I have a draft that's almost done of a registration ordinance that I can present to you very quickly whether you want it on first read or you want it on discussion I can I can have it ready for you all to review do you know how many permits we have currently in the village we have aund while she's getting that I have a question for Brad real quickly Brad if go ahead and let her answer as of today 114 paid permits 114 correct and 24 un paid I just issued 20 violations but I'm going to have to keep saying a lot of properties where we're trying to protect people I'm just saying um and those were for duplexes I'm sorry there are 41 single family residencies yes 167 Linda is saying mostly dup Tas yes so Brad for the inspections uh and there are people who won't allow the inspection to take place if the renter says you may come in and inspect who who gives Authority the owner the renter both the renter can give us Authority either or yeah so you can knock on the door and say I want to come in and do the annual inspection I wouldn't say I want to come in I would say may I come in I would okay and and if they say no I turn back and leave yeah a code inspector could knock on the door and say you know welcome to the neighborhood we understand you're a new renter we would like with permission to come into your rental unit and just look at it do some safety checks if they say sure come on in you're you're great that's an exception to the warrant requir right they have to say yes I mean even in the old the way the ordinance is now we just don't go into people's houses we have to get permission I know you don't have keys you oh okay so okay so I'm going to be the the odd man out here but I'm in favor of removing the real obvious things that very definitely step into the uh examples that are listed in chapter whatever um and leaving the rest in place and moving on with enforcing it I I think it's an important thing and I can it makes me shudder to think what they must see even here in biscan park we think we live in this Oasis in the heart of Miami I like to call it trust me there are some holes in this town pardon my French but there are and these people are in charge of making sure that people don't die in those holes you know and God bless for that uh someone needs to stand up for people and to Art to your point about you know people will call tenants will call if there's something wrong not all of them will some people aren't that strong-minded some people are afraid of authority they're afraid of police they're afraid of code officers they're afraid of government altogether there are people whose residency status may be in question and they're afraid to make eye contact with someone those are the people I think that we're looking out for so I'm looking out for the little guy and uh a landlord who won't it makes me think okay what are you up to in there if you're what's going on in there if you won't let me in it makes me doubly suspect like I said before M that's all fine and dandy and I and I don't disagree with anything you said the question is the legal portion that's the only thing that matters in this in this argument is the legal portion and I'm going to go with whatever Brad comes back because that's Brad's job I'm not a lawyer neither are you no no and I I by saying I'm not yeah so but but Brad is going to have to come back with the legal portion and listen like I said earlier if we could just if we can continue to do this I don't great fantastic awesome but the reality is the law that's it so that's the argument the other reality is is that if we take out the stuff that really clearly should not be in there at all like there's some stuff in there that very clearly like oh God you can't do that take that stuff out leave the rest in and move forward we're going to right now she has people who are saying come in and do the inspection and we're going in and they're catching things and they're making things better we could just continue on and some people are going to say no you can't and they red Tagg them or whatever she says and life goes on but they're going in where they can go in and they're catching things and those things are getting fixed right I don't see why we can't keep moving forward take out the objectionable stuff and and move forward with it so to sorry we have people that just flat out say no to that point you can't there's no cause of action for having something in your code yeah so but you are requiring a permit so again call it we just call it a registration that that will take an amendment that that t still takes an amendment of the code well so to striking all that other language yeah yeah for sure so that's I'll take direction from you so this is the question I the reason Brett I think just said that is because when I talked to him about this I said basically said are we allowed to have code that you know is illegal and he said yes you can you know you can have stuff in your code that's not allowed I guess I'm going to guess this is not the only example of things in our code that are not exactly allowed because we're not keeping up with things like what you brought to us Ryan so it's probably not the only example of that so I'm in like I I'll just restate I'm in favor of striking out some of that really specific stuff leaving the rest in let darene do her job and hope that we're catching as many unsafe things as we possibly can and also remember it will bleed into the short-term rentals if we stop inspections for the long-term renters the short-term rental will say why are you inspecting our properties well but the statute only addresses residential Tendencies which are different than short-term rentals so there still legal entitlement to do it for those they're a different animal that does not fall under chapter 8 the same chapter um look I'm going to go with the recommendation of Brad on this one I don't know if that means leave it as is and just put vote by majority that we place a moratorium on it um so they're not not in contradiction with Florida state law or if you would prefer that you come back and and modify the code for our our review I don't think there's much of a difference between the two unless the state code at some point is repealed or or or superseded and if it's appealed or superseded or somehow gets a to say it's outside this which I don't think it is I think the legislature has a right to preempt this this area um what if we were just to put a moratorium on it so if at some point in the near future there is a challenge you you can certainly do that but is the mo the moratorium is to as to what collecting it's basically it's basically the same thing so you know what I'm saying so the moratorium would be if you put a moratorium on the enforcement of the ordinance as it's written then that means you're not collecting the permit fees you're not doing the inspections you're you're you're basically have a law on your books that you're doing nothing well in that case what I think I think I think in that case what my my my preference would be to um to have you come back to us uh propose what you think needs to be removed to comply with the state law and then also come back to us with a supplemental uh registration ordinance that that would be my prefer well what I would do is just amend this okay yeah okay you want to do that on our first read or do you want to do that for a discussion any preference I think we just discussed it okay first read first read okay and um do you all um do we all have consensus from you all with regard toori until that's done to I'm sorry to what moratorium on enforcing the ordinance right now until we passed a revised ordinance on second when did the state law go into effect 2023 okay so we're way overdue and yeah I I would I would be in favor of that I'm in favor of the moratorium I'll say no to that um uh now when this is all said and done Dorene and her group still have the opportunity to go knock on the door of a renter and say we haven't been in this building for quite a while and we'd like to come in and make sure that everything is safe in here okay attorney saying yes so they can go knock the door knock on a door and ask for permission to come enter the home absolutely any any any member of the government police officers the police could knock on your door and say we'd like to come in and look around if you don't mind and I can say somebody says yes then you walk in and you do whatever it is you ask permission to do it can't exceed the scope of what what you've asked to do but um if the person says no you can't come in then you have to turn around and walk away I'm guessing this would be like a voluntary inspection and that would that would be triggered by the registration that we're talking about the voluntary registration could she also if say they say no could she Supply a document like a pamphlet with renters rights out for this absolutely absolutely there's nothing wrong with that that that's even better I think that if you supply a renter with information The Village if the village supplies it wrong how to how to contact us you know no no repercussions for contacting us you won't get in trouble so if the Prov as to reing the landlord to provide it there's nothing wrong with that yeah I think that's the route we would go we would do p flets to help the tenants come to us instead of us knocking on doors they would come to us if there's an issue but you could start with to Ryan's point it could start with a knock on the door saying this property was registered to be a rental and we would like to come in and just make sure everything's safe and here and by the way here's how you contact us the village if you have any issues with this property here are your rights as a a tenant in the State of Florida blah blah blah blah blah just have something your hand to them so we're being very proactive that's but still ask if you can come in and look around would do that okay okay so I have a a just sort of a this makes me think of another question this is not the first example since I've been a commissioner of us playing catchup on something um I'm not sure how you caught this I think I know but I'm not certain I'm not going to ask but how should we be finding out that things are changing so we should be because you guys have brought things to us I think you did Brad and I think valer I remember Valerie bringing up the short-term rental thing came through Valerie so how should we be finding out about things like this so we're not years late and there's there applying I think there was over 185 bills Governor this year okay we do our best to review them and try to look at our clients codes to see if there's it's um it's contrary and some probably are like would apply to like oh this applies to all of our clients you know some are kind of sweeping things that you know this is going to be a thing it really depends on what they are okay a lot of you know we do our best try to to recognize these conf okay in our client various sometimes dat okay so the answer is it comes through our attorney in other words okay should they also be coming from our lobbyist should I mean okay your lobbyist is at least most of the lobbyists that I I've dealt with in the past will generally provide um the the their clients with a list which contains all the past bills and a and a very brief summary of those bills I I think he had indicated he was gonna I think last time the lobbyist was here he had indicated he was going to provide that don't know if that was ever time to bother David time to bother David um okay so let's go ahead and move on to our next item which is the department Sops um commissioner Kenny this one is yours I believe s change screens here real quickly sure I'm close that document I mistaken okay so this is um well first of all let me just preface this by I'm saying I'm not going to give you us a list of things that I'm saying here are like a thousand mistakes that I found so I'm not saying that at all and Pedro's here and I'm sorry Carlos um this involves you do you guys want to come up so we can ask you questions is that appropriate to ask him to come up Jonathan yeah this is about okay so this is let me just sort of Frame It generally um when uh some building project is taking place here in biscane park like in other municipalities whether it's a new construction a driveway whatever it is the applicant goes in front of our planning board they fill out a bunch of forms they submit plans they go back and forth aren you that on that board for a while and ultimately the board says yes you're following our code we approve this project you're approved to get permit and if I get something wrong here just step in and say no ma you're wrong um so far I'm good okay and then uh the planning board does not issue permits the planning board says you may issue them permits and then they go through sometimes more of a process with your company who we hire to do this for us because then other things happen like engineering things and electrical things and sometimes then it goes farther before permits are actually issued right correct okay and then ultimately permits are issued and the work starts and off they go in goes the driveway up goes the building gets torn down up goes a new building and everything is to follow the approved plans that came through the planning board and through your company that signed off on all the what do you call those the trades or something well yeah building tra building and the specif uh in the technical TR the MEPS we call so here's what I wanted to understand um that's the process and I want and my question was I wanted I've been wondering about this and watching some things happen in the village and again I'm not going to point any specific examples and say that building's too high that's not but I'm looking at some things as I walk around this Village and listening to what other people are saying and I'm looking at some things and thinking that really seems to exceed 50% lock coverage to me I'm looking at that house go up and I'm look wow that really I don't to my eye you know um and and then I have seen some very specific things and I'm not going to name addresses or projects but things that very clearly were not to code and they're getting done and they're getting approved uh and they go through the process of inspections and sometimes many inspections and ultimately they get a a CO and the project is done and fence comes down and go live in your house and God bless right I want to understand the process of how this is all being checked to make sure that what is taking place what's being built matches what the village approved in its plans and and further um meets our other code because some times the things that sometimes there are things in our code that the planning board is not necessarily giving the thumbs up on but are also in the code that also have to be followed and I want to know that that's being inspected and in some cases I I think they aren't and then the code Department starts getting involved because then a project goes then a project is completed and it violates our code and I'll use a driveway as an example you know and I think this has actually happened where there's a permit the driveway's approved CE or whatever you get a final Project's done permit comes down the driveway is in violation because some things weren't done properly around it like the gravel isn't where it's supposed to be and some things aren't finished up and now the property owner is looking at a final permit saying I'm done but they're in violation right so now they're in violation because it wasn't cleaned up properly it the the the gravel still laying around it wasn't res it up to the driveway our code is very specific and I'm just using driveways as one example and that's not something that's in the the perits that's in the approved plans but it's in our code so I asked for a meeting with Chris and Pedro and uh Chris decided that Pedro should not be in that meeting and I had the meeting with Chris alone and I asked a lot of questions and he said he would go back to me with answers and I quite frankly was not satisfied with the answers I got so I want to know that things are being done to to plan and to code as well I want to know that these projects that are going up in these Village especially these huge properties I'm not talking about is every light switch on straight I'm talking about is it as tall as it was allow is it taller than it was allowed to be is it greater than the 50% footprint I want to know how it's being inspected to make sure that what's going up is what we approved to go up on that property now one thing did come up in my meeting with Chris and I just want I'm going to say this out loud getting this on record because I want to clear the air on something when I met with Chris this is one of the things that Chris brought up um he wasn't I wouldn't describe him as being enthusiastic about having this meeting with me and one of the things that he brought up was the fact that in conversations with Pedro they were under the impression that we want to get rid of this vendor and bring all of the building back in house and that they got that impression and he was speaking for both of them on convers conversations they had that based on our conversation about the cap item that Chris brought to us remember you weren't a commissioner then but Chris brought cap to us and we kind of set that aside and hasn't come back to us yet that based on that that their impression was that we want to get rid of cap and we want to bring building back inh house I was surprised to have that said out loud because I don't recall I never suggested that and I was one of the ones that pushed back most on the cap item um I never suggested that I didn't hear anyone else suggest that and I just want that notion to spell Jonathan did you ever intent for that conversation that night to give anyone the impression that you want to get rid of cap and bring the building department completely back in house and manage it on our own no in my recollection I think we had talked about uh having one one employee one employee art did you think and Ryan I know you weren't a commissioner then and Vero is not here okay so I just want to set that aside because that was kind of presented to me as well there's this this is why you know it was presented this is why Pedro wasn't in the meeting because we thought well I think you guys were taking steps to get rid of this vendor and bring it in house we all agree that that's not the case great Chris did you hear that there this commission has no desire to get rid of cap and to bring the building department back in house I just want to make sure that's very clear okay so now back to the topic at hand Pedro can do you want me to answer that sure yes good I'm glad you're clear on that um because it never was the case so now back to this let's talk new construction can you explain to us how you are in how your team is inspecting to make sure that a building goes up per the approved plans and I'm talking every I'm not talking about all the little detailed nuances I'm talking about things like it's the height it's the elevation it's the footprint on the property it's placement on the property kind of the big things that would be a big objectionable objectionable thing to us if it went sideways okay um by the way thank you for coming to talk to us about this no no um first of all um we first when the final permit is approved we verify the original approved by planning owning board if there's any significant differences the permit sent back to the planning and owning board to approve again before issuing the permit the the planning zoning board approved a basic design the idea of the of zoning reviews going first if zoning says no there's no reason to spend all the money in all the details for the structural for electrical everything that goes in so they the owner must must modify the project until he gets a basic project that is approvable once that's done they prepare the full set of plans and our special their Specialties in building different engineering sections each of them will review that for compliance with the building code for all the applicable codes we also have civil review that will mathematically calculate the permeable area so so it's not only what they what the applicant puts on the plans but we have the civil engineer check all the Civil civil for drainage and for per and he has found many instances when where the applicant presented wrongly calculated areas and had to go back to the planning board modified the application you're catching mistakes even before the building process has started cat during during the building before the building starts before we issue the permit we can those things so at the last minute if there's any change it goes back to the planning board and the planning board gives the okay then we can issue a permit the planning board's kind of conceptually approving everything make sure it follows code you're looking at the actual plans make sure it really also follows code and what they said they wanted and what Planning and Zoning planning board approved correct that's to co possibly go back and come back to you again and then you approve it and say start building all right we go with a building code the Planning and Zoning Board they go by zoning zoning code which is different um now when the permit is issued for any for additions and new homes we the inspector will require an in progress survey as soon as they B when they have the forms for this lab or when they B this lab they have an in progress survey required at that moment before any columns are approved for that's for new homes and for additions for new homes on top of that any progress elevation certificate is required so that the elevation of the Finish floor matches what the plans have and with that we will measuring it are they're going out no we get a survey we don't have there's no we don't have the equipment it has to be a surveyor with special equipment so we require surveyor a surve to do it and the survey is a legal document so so require that um the Elation certificate in progress so they can correct it if it's too low to comply with flood and with a building code that's the elevation elevation of the slab um it's not too high not too low it has to be what the plan say it's within a range that will not fall below flood um and there's a slight difference at the end because of of the floor flooring they'll apply um and then at the end we also require a final survey before the final inspection is approved we require the the the developer to upload of a complete final survey with everything in the property the pool the driver that's for a new house or for an addition now for smaller permits we are not requiring a survey because it could be too honorous for you want to do a driveway a survey is a is very considerable uh cost for a fence also it's considerable cost um to ask for it could be if you want to be very precise on on on the location of things serve it could be required but we don't require that so then for a new construction for example what does the survey at the end show that the building is the right size the right location the right height all of that is included yes yeah based on because once you have the slab you know the ceiling height for each floor that Des sign so once you have the bottom of the slab the top of roof follows that so and and that's what we have any approved PL so um yeah yeah at the end we have all that all that covered so when the building is done are we assured that it's the right size it's the footprint the placement on the property the height all the dimensions are accurate yes in that comes through the survey through the survey and the elevation certificate wish you had been in the meeting with me because that would have that would have answered a lot of this okay um now what about the additional things that are in our code that are not approved by the planning board and are not actually in the there are things like driveways if you read our driveway ordinance it talks about the things that you're looking for the placement the location the lot coverage and the materials and all of that but there are other things in there about it has to all be uh I don't have it pulled up in front of me but you can't have the material the gravel like extra gravel around it it has to be slded up to it the edges all have to be done it has to be finished properly projects have to be finished properly and all cleaned up how is that being currently we do not have zoning inspections we do not have no most jurisdictions have a zoning inspector dedicated especially for that um building inspectors are not brain in zoning there are The Architects are engineers and they go by what's required for the building itself um zoning regulations vary from municipality to municipalities that's why municipalities have their own specific zoning inspector um for now we do we have the building inspector do as much as he can but it's not a real zoning inspection so then what kind of additional things would fall into that heading the sing things that you like you like Landscaping Z zing um the shape of things um screening screening requirements Landscaping basically so you're not your company's not inspecting for any of that no because we need somebody Brin specifically for that really we're not doing it we have building inspectors we do not have a zoning inspector we don't have you're not providing the zoning Services just the building building services so how are we how is this Village capturing that and make because here's the thing guys we have code that's very specific and we sat up here and we we wrote that code for example the driveway code and we're very specific about what we want it was all very abundantly clear and now what we're hearing is that sort of the big picture stuff is being taken care of but a lot of the details are not being caught by anyone so why do we have all the stuff in the code if we're not really making sure it happens so how is that happening here at the Village as I say we're not providing the zoning service although Carlos is here we we could probably provide the service and and provide a specific inspector just for that that will know the zoning between specifically in zoning to provide that inspection and that's that inspection comes before the building final because building final closes a permit nothing else then you're done then everybody's done anything done after that is done without a permit right and if thing and what I was told before and I I don't want to put words in someone's mouth I think I know who told me that and it was an attorney um that um that if a CO were issued and there was something that was found to be in violation our Code Department even though a CO a final was given a final permit was signed if there was a mistake it could still be cited yeah it's still a violation yeah see and this is where most most of the cases in the I would say over 90% of the time maybe it's not less or 95% there's a 2% chance of a mistake 2% 5% could be mistakes but the rest of them are all work started after yeah because I'm seeing things left and and people start working right away to but I'll give one example um someone got a a fence permit and they put a fence up and it was done legally but they added another section of fence onto it to hide the trash cans behind now that's not allowed in front yards altogether and that fence isn't allow L but there it is and and and it was done with the fence it wasn't like months later they came back and added it when the fence was built it was done so it seems to me I don't know this to be a fact that the inspector didn't look at that and go well this section of the fence isn't on the plans but in general the inspector does and the instruct they do take pictures I I think I had an example of a driveway that came here and and I was on vacation so as soon as I came back I saw the pictures of that driveway sure enough the inspector had taking pictures of the form going straight and he went back for the final somebody had CAU the form put a board this way and they built a bat for a for a little golf cart exactly that's another it was not matching PL so he failed the final and the homeowner was complaining because how come the inspector approve one and then fail later that's an example and that's why he do they do take pictures because because this happens very frequently people would change stuff after the act so for the big things the house being built properly it not exceeding the size the lot coverage the height all of that is captured at the end yeah on a final survey that's where you catch up do you catch things no we do yes we do we do and what do you do we have an example a house right here in 7th Avenue yeah we we thought it was too close to the to the to to the street they didn't have enough setback I went to a property with a contractor doing this lab inspection gave my opinion he spoke with a surveyor surveyor said it's correct and according to the survey he they had made a mistake and they had to demolish about 8 feet and move everything back cost them a lot of money reporing before having the survey when we got server they have to cut this lab and cut everything and modify everything modify the foundation okay so all these other things that you're not inspecting for these other things in the codes the driveway finishes and things like that and I'm just using that one example because I see that one happen you're you're not inspecting to that you don't have someone who can do that is that not something that you could provide a checklist to the inspectors for that they know in bis in biscane park these are the other things that you have to check for before you close out that permit we could we could but I would prefectly give that checklist to a zoning inspector that will be vered and and and ready for that but and that person would would be a zoning person before you give a before yeah Co when I was an inspector an inspector goes this way when I was an inspector went to to check several things in a job you have to do it with your eyes and and do quickly so I would sweep inspecting one item first and then in the same room inspect the other item like one category like light one category I'm looking for framing and firestopping and and so I would look look at the fire stopping sweep around the whole area find any problems and then look at the framing sweep around the whole area and find but because that way my eyes strained on looking for one particular thing finding where Waldo when you look at the picture so the inspector does that and they inspector is going to look at his trait he he's not that well versed on something else so in his mind it'll be more difficult than having somebody who is vers on on PR on on zoning just do the zoning inspection and that's why whatever you don't have anyone to do that no we can't we could we could have somebody we don't have somebody now um I'm not sure if we have a you don't have an employee who does that or you don't have someone assigned to aric we don't have somebody assigned to our account right you employe people like that you not think we have the fee for that zoning inspection included in the in the permit fee okay so your company could do it but you're not doing it for us we could do it and but I don't I I have to check but I don't think we have the fee in the fee schedule for that so that's something that we be passed on to the property whoever's building the building the the B to yeah the cost of inspecting is is the cost of of the building department so so it would have to increase a little bit of a fee and and and pass it on to to a zoning inspector that's mainly a reason we don't have it because we don't have a fee to pay okay so that so there's the solution then so you're saying the big stuff is is happening but the smaller stuff your I understood you initially to say your company doesn't provide that service your company does you're just not it's not on our fee schedule and it's not something that we're requiring here okay and that would catch these these problems would make things be finished properly nice and tight because here's I see this from I'm going to turn to you guys I see this from two directions one I want stuff done right in the village right especially we're talking these big projects this new construction so I want things done properly but here's what I don't want to have happen I don't want the property owner to First find out about it from her when they come knocking on the door and say uh uhuh they're like what do you mean here's my final I got inspected yeah but there's this and this and this and this and they they think the the resident think they did it thinks they did it right and completely and they got a final and and people aren't as well versed as you know well I'm not that well versed with these guys but I'm thinking on the resident's behalf I don't want this to become a code thing I don't want it to be a negative interaction I'd rather it be upfront proactive part of the process so it's nice and nice nice and tidy and it's just part of what happens right this is not this doesn't happen very often I have to say it's a few selected um situations now every time we've seen a violation or we've observed a violation I always go back to him I'll I'll take as many pictures as I can and verify with him if things are in order I see the violation what do you think I get his opinion before I even issue the violation so I've I've really worked under his guidance on that I I don't just issue violations on a on a building uh site without first Consulting but you understand my point is that I don't want it to be a violation that the conversation's about a violation I'd rather it be a conversation about compliance all the way through up front and this has to be done before you can get your permit because at that point it's like they want that thing closed out and they'll say what do I have to do right but they do get stuff closed out with building and then they get creative and start doing stuff that that's same problem well that's a whole different thing that's just a code that's a violation it's a pering violation okay so I think that's one thing I want to ask that we have a conversation about when I'm done here I have a couple more questions because I'd like that to be tied up more neatly that this is being done proactively and just to be clear it's not costing the village any money this would be on a fee schedule like everything else that's involved in in the permits this as part of the price that is charged to the residents to make sure it's done right and I'd whether it be that than a than a citation and a violation and all the negativity that comes with it hi Carlos yes I would Carlos Delino from cap I would like to add something else um normally in all jurisdiction where we work they do have the planning board that that approv the concept of the project and once the project is submitted for actual permitting they do have zoning reviews the zoning reviewer will make sure that not only the uh the the building code that is reviewed by the code uh inspectors and plans examiner is correct but also that that whatever was approved by the planning board is follow because once you have the the planning uh the planning board approval and you enter those documents into the permit review there is those documents it is my understanding correctly if I Rong don't go back to the planning board unless the plans examiners detect that there is something odd with respect the original approval something doesn't match exactly that doesn't doesn't match normally the normal process that you will find in other jurisdictions is that they do have zoning plans examiners at the same time that they do they do have zoning inspectors here in biscan park for whatever reasons we do have a planning board that reviews um the submittals before they're enter into the permit uh process and there is no there's no more interaction with the zoning reviewers and there is no more interaction with any zoning uh inspector so the the Cod inspector are doing the most they can uh they try that's after the fact yeah that's after the as opposed to as part of the process I mean if a plans examiners uh determine that there's uh a mismatching uh situation with the drwings the drwings in the in the review process for Code Compliance the drwings uh suffer many modifications why because there are comments that will arise from code compliance issues that will make the drawings to be modified so it's always health healthy and recommendable to have the drawings going back to the zoning reviewer uh before a permit decision so all disciplines is that a service your company provides as well or or to a zoning reviewer wh whatever the The Village finally decides to do do you provide zoning reviewer yeah we do provide zon so is do you see this as a missing step in our process here there is a missing would catch some of these things yes there is a missing step with zoning here uh on the zoning reviews and on the zoning inspections you're saying at the at the beginning step during the the the permitting the initial permitting process at the end or both yes I mean when you got the final the approval from uh for permit when a permit is issue you're supposed to see the approval from it's missing there right building structural mechanical electrical pling zoning zoning and then the building official and in in the case of the village you have building structural mechanical electrical Plumbing no zoning no zoning but also but no but my question is is a little broader it's we know zoning is missing at that step is is what you're saying is a zoning review is also missing at the final step as well so they're missing in two spots not just one okay that's I understood that that was the same thing it's a zoning reviewer right zoning inspector so when you're doing the the permitting review I mean the master permit set of documents review to issue a permit at that phase um you're missing the zoning review okay I was under the impression that our planning our planning review board is the is acts in that capacity at the beginning of the project when the project is a concept okay not when the when not when the construction documents are issued for for permit so so then at that point is where it's missing yes yes now with when when cap provides this service and both of those capacities is it paid the same way or is is it an additional fee at the the initial step and then the second step is is a permit uh it's a zoning uh is a zoning fee that is uh so both are that are passed on to the actual owner fees and then nothing from your company is we pay it's all to the owner who's building yeah so it's very important though that if we provide a zoning reviewer and inspector he does not take over the board it's just keeping with keeping line keep supporting the board not replacing them at all because I the board may have checks and balances right I would need to we I have I think I we have very good uh communication with with the board with that way when I attend your meeting but I I would like to explain that to them very clearly that we would not be taken over they have the final decision and and the reviewer and inspector will just make sure what they decided is enforced so just a quick question if if if you guys knew that this piece was missing right it is there a reason why it hasn't or has it been brought to someone attention because what I'm saying no because the Planning and Zoning Board was I think I had a feeling planning on zoning board were afraid that we're trying to eliminate the board and replace them with a zoning inspector clearly you're not which it is not our in intention the planning board would serve its current full function nothing would change there it goes to you and it goes through the Mechanicals and your zoning reviewer that's extra check mark and doesn't go back to the planning board unless something is wonky and it has to go back for another approval corre okay correct correct I'm G jump the gun here um can you provide us a quote on what that would look like what it would cost y yeah sure okay that was excellent one question I had Brad was the state law that we're waiting for the governor to sign that would change the timelines for a building permit was that vetoed or was that signed that was signed it was signed doesn't take effect until I believe January 1 but that's that's going to create some issues with your board as far as the timing adding this extra reviewer delay Us in getting a building permit question I think said building department but uh we're jumping I need to jump to another subject that's with help approval plans yes but say that again Brad the the time frames that they're talking about is is the approval of a the issuance of a permit so what they've done is they've created an expedited and I don't remember all the date the time frames in my head but there's an expedited permit process for residences now for single family residents where there's the board where this The Village has to approve the permit other words they have to there's review process where there's a certain amount of time I think it's five days if I remember correctly where the permit has to be reviewed any inconsistencies or Corrections that have to be made into the permit has to the uh the applicant has to be notified they have a certain amount of time to to to fix those those issues correct those issues and then there's a there's a time limit in which the permit has to be approved so to the extent that the planning and review board would have to meet and and hear any of these things they're going to Mo very likely have to meet more often or or comply with those time frames because if you don't if you don't have consent of the applicant and you don't meet the time frames for approval the permit is deemed approved okay so then what you're describing wouldn't impact what you're describing Brad that's more like the planning board's current responsibility have to be done because what you're talking about are things after the the changes the in the law will affect the way the building department so once the planning board approves then the application is taken in and the stock the clock starts sticking now it's very good that you ask that question though because the current system we have open go does not have review Cycles all files are thrown like this and reviewers have to catch up with things that have been uploaded to review them but there's no organization at all there go review Cycles there's there's no the program does not close our review like simulating when when in the old times you came with a roll of plans given to the building department and then the review started with this system you can keep on bringing plans at any time so there's no cycle and and the low defines the cycle goals precisely we don't have them so with open go it would be impossible to comply with the law next year if I can jump in real quick yeah open gov is is not the correct solution um if we choose to go with cap for 100% of building they would be using their internal systems that have these checks and balances and processes and workflows built in so we no longer have to worry about that right yeah I wanted to add because I in in one like three meetings ago I assisted and you were discussing about the the possession of the of the files what the possession of plans if they went you went with our system that we would be handling the inspections and also we would have the the files the all the files are public record they belong to you all the time so we we as yes we did ask about they are public record we cannot keep and it would be a disaster we kept them for one municipality we have I don't know Carlos knows much better but we would lose a ton of clients so they would know right away okay so back to Ryan's concern that was a very good question will this if we brought if we had you do the additional zoning review is that going to impact this new no no okay but it when you do review Cycles good is it is is is um everybody goes in parallel you open a cycle all reviewers have the plans available at the same time and we give them a time to fin oh they can work on it simultaneously simultane oh there's the word I need carry the plans they gotta it's not one set of plans moving around your office everyone has their fingers in it okay the system that Pedro is uh describing is a system that is uh very well organized that has review Cycles it's very difficult to follow up there some midles when you don't have review Cycles uh in a review cycle we include all reviewers at once uh all traits and then whomever other reviewers you want to include we include them concurrently it's all simultaneous and they can all get okay got it so okay very good um okay that was excellent thank you so it sounds like we're missing a a step here and you're agreeing that in other municipalities you've worked in that step made the difference and caught a lot of these things absolutely and the other thing to point out that we've had difficulty with is not having a zoning person on site or someone who's accessible because Gage is not I mean Gage does a great job right however we have to we have to email him and wait for him to answer before we can give that answer to the person who's asking the question it might be a simple question is the setback good can I do a carport we can't answer those questions we have to go through someone else now if there's someone who can answer questions I mean they can make a phone call email them directly with zoning questions from residents of this Village it would be so helpful okay well that's separate than what we're talking about with these other things that are that it will Capt yes but it's part of it because because a lot of times they have questions that have to do with specifically with zoning and we're not able to answer them now the reviewer can answer those questions the zoning reviewer can answer those questions directly okay so they could answer questions like what's the side setback for a garage but they wouldn't approve anything oh absolutely okay so again the planning board's function doesn't change at all it's this extra layer that you guys have to tighten up all those loose ends and also to pick up all the extra things that are coming through Village Hall and just make it happen faster for really it's for residents absolutely and they contractors okay so I have a couple do you guys have any questions about that because I have a couple of other things I want to ask them real quickly okay so um I asked I asked Chris this question question and and he answered me and I just want to hear you say the same thing so oh we're moving away from open gov so it doesn't matter open gov there was some kind something wonky in there where people could replace plans and that got that loophole got closed up even before we switch into goov right no still we have to manage I have to jump in there for just one second we are not using goov for anything relating to building oh this is gogov is not going to impact this at all okay goov is totally separate okay we're talking about is a system called open go which is what we currently use yes and that's the system that we've had issues with yeah we we we we can use our system cap cap system we can Pro cap can provide a plan review system that organizes the reviews in cycles and keeps things in order um and we use that for online in for for tablet for uh direct inspections online and for for plan review integrated we have the same model integrated with with bsna right now in our portal is working fine or we have it uh in North Bay Village with uh with Eno which is a very big big program but our plan review system is better for the public for for communication with the public it it works better than than the one in open go or or the one in ano okay so there was an issue I understood a couple of times it may have been more than just a handful of times where plans were approved and then the contractor uploaded a new set of plans that were different that were markedly different and now there was a and they kind of got slid into the process and all of a sudden those things as if they were approved and they never were has that been stopped so that's not happening anymore we're stopping but it has to be done man we still have manually because we have to check the the date of the last plan you guys aware of that that was happening people were approving plans it's all ready to go and then the contractor would upload a different set of plans right we because the system is not closed so so we have to check the latest plans compared to the time where the where the reviewer approved I must have misunderstood done to Titan I thought you said something was done we do we have to do it manually still but it's still manual so the answer to your question is yes something was done that extra manual step was added in right that's a drag okay but someone is ensuring that that's not happening yes okay okay um I'm going to jump down here to another big topic that is something that I pushed for so um okay I want to talk about Landscaping what art come on say your smartass comment into the mic this is an important topic look what we just Unearthed look what we just Unearthed okay so Miami Dade County has Landscaping code and we uh observe their Landscaping code we don't have our own landscaping code and when we rewrote the construction code our previous attorney who works with the same firm um Incorporated the language our Landscaping code simply says I'm paraphrasing Brad tell me if I get this wrong um we follow Miami Dade County's Landscaping code so if they change their code we go along with it we're not inspecting to that so properties are going up people are coming in and they're raising a building they're putting a brand new construction up and they're not following any of the Miami Dade County landscaping code they're not putting in the right numbers of trees the right types of trees they're just violating everything about the Miami it's as if it doesn't even exist and we're doing nothing about it when we did this put it into the code it was a previous commission under a previous manager we were told that you guys were going to be taking on the responsibility for that and we would get a report back about how that was going to take place so where do we stand on that process you're aware of this you you're aware that Miami day county has Landscaping code and I'm going to guess you're aware that we're not following it at all and hence we have as a result we have all these buildings going up guys I don't know if you look at them but it's just it's not even close and Miami Dade County landscaping code first of all it's the code so it's code we have to follow right but it's it's it's very well written and it's very clear and it's there for a very good reason and we're just completely ignoring it like it doesn't even exist so what are we going to do about that yeah that that's that's something that zoning a zoning inspector could do is because it's out of totally out of the SC the scope of building building code which is what I what I do building code is safety safety and and the measurements of a building the requirements to for for something to be livable but is Landscaping is outside of the building code is is not building at all but it's zoning can enforce that so the zoning reviewer could also do that yes the zoning reviewer can do that yeah okay so that would involve not just going there and Counting trees and making sure the right things of the right caliber were installed because the codee's very clear would that person look at plans like because it says Landscaping that if you read the Miami day county code I don't know if you guys have it says that plans have to be presented approved the whole nine yards would your reviewer do that would they approve plans land only sorry the only thing that the building code covers as it relates to landscape is irrigation and whatever electrical portion of the irrigation the Sol evolve and all that stuff but that's the only thing that building code covers but not Landscaping so does cap not handle that at all you don't have any landscape reviewer because maybe I misunder I thought Pedro said that the the zoning reviewer could do that we're providing landscape reviewers to specific uh jurisdictions uh but obviously not here so the zoning reviewer no zoning rev reviews zoning code and the zoning reviewers can uh visit some aspects of the zoning code as it relates to landscape but to go in depth about the type of trees that are allowed uh and and any other uh particular technical aspects involving Landscaping it's beyond the scope of a zoning reviewer that's a landcap it's not so it's a landscape reviewer yes do you have them on staff they're not abundant I mean we have we have on staff but I I have them committed I mean if there's an interest I can I can go and well I mean I have an interest in it I mean it's it's required it's code it's not like it's like saying do we have an interest in having the electrical work inspected well of course we do you have to it's in the code you have to do it and I'm hearing the same the same answer to to all these issues is there sorry cap cap can provide to us um what the quote would look like and sure I mean there it doesn't hurt to say talk to a landscaper and see what it would cost and see how it would be paid for kind of book you have some on staff but they're committed they're fully committed yeah because they're very difficult to find okay well well we need to get this done I will comment on that that when you're talking about zoning as as you know brick and mortar construction if the driveway is not the right surface it's not built the right way that's something that once the contractor is gone you can't really change without bringing in a new contractor when it comes to landscaping and the trees aren't planted right our code can our Code Department can catch that and make contact with the resident and say hey there a violation of M day county code you didn't plant these trees you have to plant the trees well but with this new construction right there's a plan has to be presented and it's X number of trees I understand but it it's a little more definite when it comes to the concrete is cured the contractor has been paid he drove away and he didn't plant and you didn't plant an oak tree where you should have and this that the other thing well it it is not as to me it's not as definite as the I think it's very definite it's you're supposed to have eight trees and you only have six here your plan requires you to have uh trees of this caliper and you're expecting them to be a half an inch smaller I mean it's all very clear if you read the landscape but when when you finish a a building if the building wasn't built to the zoning to to our code it would have to be demolished and rebuilt and fixed if you didn't plant a tree You' did go hold and plant a tree that but it's not happening and we I don't think the word dorine went but is she back there um but code's not going around and they're not building inspectors they're not landscape inspectors they're there to catch violations not something that was never done in the first place it's like she's not going out yeah exactly she's not out there catching you know a driveway wasn't put in the property well I guess that one you would catch but um they're catching it after she's after the fact these guys are before the fact make sure it all gets done right and she comes in and cleans up after the fact so this is very important in this Village we pride ourselves on our landscaping and our tree coverage and bl and what we have happening is people are buying homes they're tearing them down they're ripping down all the trees mature trees are so what's the answer let's get the answer is get aot from them for landscape okay he just finished saying he don't he oh you do provide it they do provide that service right now we don't have any professionals available to provide the service I'm going to be honest with you we have to go out and and and identify resources and come back to you with that right now right now we cannot I cannot tell you that next week you're GNA have that person well we have to start look we have to start the process somewhere and you're our building inspectors and you're the logical place for us to start before we go look for someone alak cart to do this for us even even if we received a during the set of construction documents a landscape Set uh the only thing that we review from that is the irrigation and the elect not the landscape at all that is beyond the the scope of the Florida building Cod there's there's people that that's what yes exactly and all these costs are passed on to the to the property anyway right it's part of the permit fee if you're going to include landscape in your and your verification and inspection that it becomes a permit fee right now right okay Carlos would you be able to come back to us or provide to the manager a quote from cap what it would cost to have the the zoning person committed to those two steps that we just discussed not not just cost I'm not cost of Village but what it costs for you all what other fees you need in our fee schedule to cover that and in addition you say you don't have it no fine if you don't let's not put the cart before the horse if you don't have Landscaping you don't have it that's fine but if you can just if you could talk internally with cap come back to our manager come back to the commission and just let us know what that looks like then I think we can consider it more more seriously but without knowing what that looks like what the cost is to the homeowner there's no way for us to make a decision we'll do the analysis and well look whatever the cost is to the homeowner it is the cost to the it's it's mainly this it's it it it by the way it doesn't apply to current structures you we're not it's not like we're going around the village and saying you don't have the right number of trees for construction so it's all this new construction that's what it's only it's not about Darin going around and Counting trees in people's yards and saying go get a permit to go put all the stuff in it's new construction is what it is that's where we're starting to catch these things and property and look it's not just property by property here in biscan park it's properties properties properties and it's just it's heart-wrenching to see all the all of a sudden Voom a whole lot is cleared out 119th Street have you seen that MC Manion this up a whole tree covered lot is just gone there's I don't even know where and that's a perfect example of I'm not sure where they could even put the required Landscaping now that that building has been approved the way it's been approved and that's the other reason why I think Miami day county has this Landscaping code is you've got to have room to put this stuff in so maybe that gigantic center block thing couldn't be sitting there because you don't have room for trees in the bushes and all the things that you're required to have and if that's part of the process from the very beginning it's also going to impact how these buildings are designed that's the intent of it is to keep the city green and not to have it just covered in concrete and that's what's happening in biscane park now lot by lot by lot we're getting covered in concrete and the Green's not coming in behind it and the code's there for a reason okay so we're gonna I'll you you guys will work with Chris on those very two specific things one is a Zone reviewer to help tie up a lot of these loose ends that we were discussing you're saying that the surveys are cturing the big things that I was questioning and then the additional thing is a landscape review process and inspectors and to Art's point it all gets passed on to the developers building these things okay do you guys have any other questions okay I thank you for giving me this time to do this this was very important and I wanted to make sure these things are being done with the amount of new construction going on in this Village all these little things are adding up and making a big difference really fast in how this Village looks and I think we need to we need to get on this and be an example not just kind of pretend like well we don't really have a proc process in place that's not a good excuse thank you guys very much appreciate it thank you k um okay so uh if that's it for the building Sops so the next two um I know we've talked about this at previous meetings um commissioner Kennedy this was an item that you and commissioner AMS Lord kind of tied together um and she's not here and I'd really almost rather wait until she's here because I think she has some related stuff I was just going to suggest the same thing I you can move it over I don't want to without her I feel like it wouldn't be fair to her yeah I I agree with you if you guys are are comfortable with that then we can my way of getting bathroom break move the uh the police department uh discussions to the next meeting um so that would take us on to um discussion on disaster preparedness um vice mayor I think this is your item and uh I'll just say very quickly I think the next item is kind of a natural progression to your item because it's at least a partial solution that we've discussed so um vice mayor if you want to introduce your item for us please so uh so first off I want to start by saying that I I was here in the village when the the big rain it was June 13th I think it was happened I want to say that our staff worked admirably uh Public Works police The Village manager were out there they were working hard um but I think we all saw things that we could do better uh during this with this review I talked to the Village manager and the days after we found out that we didn't really even have a disaster preparedness plan we we thought we had one on the books maybe it left to when our former police chief left with him we don't we he there was no book to to go to to an sop for this kind of scenario so that's some place I think we should start is I think we should start conversation with the commission here as well as the village manager to start the building that process in doing that what things we it's a great time to review what we saw that could be done better what could be done differently what can we plan for the future uh give a quick example I don't think we should be giving out sandbags the day after it rains I think that's that's a mistake I think we should the sandbag should have been available prior to I understand that we can't be predict every weather event but some can be predicted and I think that having s things like that on site can help another big one for me was communication I'm sure you guys all had a lot of phone calls coming in that day in the days preceding that the village needs to have a United voice when it comes to what the emergency is here's our resources here's how to get a hold of these resources having it peacee in and each commissioner saying a different thing and publicizing a different different story is just creates Mass confusion and mass panic um and I really want to open up to the commission is what else you guys saw suggestions came in for me from residents were could we have preset our cones and our barricades you know this wasn't a wind event this was just a rain event could we have preut uh we know the roads that flood we know that the areas that flood could we have closed them down earlier to prevent prevent the wakes they're being created by passing cars from damaging homes further um just a few suggestions I have I think that uh you know we we all can come together collectively think of other things that the manager I'm sure has suggestions that we can help prepare ourselves in the future for future rains flooding hurricanes and things like that and finding that we're in ear in hurricane season is a really bad time to plan for this so we should really get moving on for faster pass it to since we're going to go together I'll pass it over to the Village manager and what he wants to add to this as well before I continue Chief are you still on the line yes sure I'm still here right thank you so much for hanging out with us for the past three and a half hours um I apologize that the police item was uh pulled um are you able to hang out for a little bit longer while we get through the disaster preparedness part yes sir not a problem right thank you sir um some of the challenges that we've identified or that we identified through the past storm um the biggest challenge was communication um in the event of a major incident the onite on scene incident commanders cannot be the main point of contact for all the questions coming in that's the role of a public information officer or dispatch triage somebody that can handle those Communications um the other challenge that we faced was not knowing what resources are a available to us from the county um what was presented to us as being available turned out was not actually available um and I'm not knocking the county we're focusing on our little one square mile they're focusing in on how many dozens or hundreds of square miles that they have so what's important to us and what's worse for us may not be the worse for elsewhere in the county um that was the second thing that we identified the third thing that we identified was the lack of an emergency Operation Center biscan Park and I think six other municipalities uh we don't have our own Emergency Operations Center we have to go through North Miami um North Miami unfortunately had some turnover and their current Emergency Operations uh manager um was about as inexperienced as as he could be for this particular situation and again that's not a knock on him it's just a new position um the you are absolutely correct absolutely correct we need to look at a more proactive approach being able to get those things like barricades out that's one of the things that um I'm thankful for the vulnerability assessment um which shows us interactively topography top topographically um where we can expect that so we can start staging some of those things um the previous emergency plan was essentially non-existent um to address this we are taking immediate steps um the chief is currently or actually I think you are currently working on the ncks National command system trainings coming in um so that we can get ourselves on the same page um my hope is in my experience with doing stuff like Nicks in the past um that helps guide us and inform us as we create our own emergency plan um I was able to pull up the old emergency plan um eventually from Brad do you recall was it like 1980 I think he sent me the link it was an ancient yeah it was it was an ancient plan um we do have it linked now on our website um but we need more actionable a true emergency plan is not specifying um this is an emergency here so we declare it the true emergency plan is like you said commissioner hun or vice mayor Huntington this is how we prepare for it these are the resources we put in place this is communication we put in place and this is how we handle it so one of the first things that I did based on our conversation um was set up a new Communications system so we now have a single email and voicemail that will be checked by whoever we identify um that could be myself it could be the chief it could be uh the director of code it could be director Public Works whoever um that person is going to be responsible for Manning or Staffing I should say um that email address and those um phone lines that person is also going to be responsible for managing the app as we we get reports of flooding in on the app that's going to free up um the chief and myself to be able to do what incident command needs to do which is direct resources is where they're needed the most um cutting out that that the communication piece was absolutely horrible we were constantly having our attention pulled from what we needed to be doing to a lot of the concerns that residents and Commissioners had because we didn't have a command or a communication system to do anything different um every every minute that we spend answering this is not a knock but every minute that we spend answering the same question over and over and over is a minute that we don't spend doing what we need to be doing so by having those Communications centralized um we're able to have that one person answer those questions over and over because they're valid questions then like I said that freeze up into command to do some of the other things um another thing that we're looking at doing which is actually I think is the next item on the agenda is partnering with some of our local municipalities um we don't have the equipment necessary to handle a major wind or rain event um we have to rely on the county and like I mentioned we're just a small part of the county and there may be areas worse off than we are so by partnering with some of the local municipalities we may we may be able to get some additional equipment in um but I think if I had to sum this all up and then Chief I'll kick it over to you I think I think the challenge that we had during this event um and the challenge that we're going to have during future events is understanding what resources are available and handling those Communications that that came in um so that's my quickish assessment um Chief do you have anything that you would like to add to uh the the only additional things as sorry uh Commissioners Mr Mayor uh being on Zoom here dealing with the uh police accreditation stuff in Claremont Florida today but um uh for for this situation we've requested a lot of stuff from the county resources uh going through North Miami's e and part of the uh issue was the level the EOC that they had activated was U it was a kind of a standby for for a good portion of it um so they weren't really taking requests and then they finally started taking requests uh they denied everything immediately uh it wasn't until like a day or so later they went back reopened what we asked for and then closed it out that that we had canceled it uh the only thing we were able to get uh were the pumps about day day into it um it uh we are now set up with the Webb and running a little more smooth on that approach for the next time is just uh kind of what the manager was saying resource-wise U we're not the top priority because of all the areas that they had to get to um they uh even the county uh water and sewage didn't respond at all uh for the septic issues uh because because we don't have any of their water sewage um so they said that was a personal matter so it's kind of working out what resources are available what will they send us uh in the future and what kind of supplies that we're going to have to try to get out of mutual Aid more of a police or or fire response even Miami D fire rescue uh did not respond or when they did it was delayed we had to go do all the checks for some medical calls prior to them uh even getting out of the truck so there was a little bit of a learning curve uh based off of their priority levels and and based off of our priority levels in the village vice mayor and probably correct me if I say anything incorrectly here it's been quite a few years since I've gone through any of this um but the key to managing a disaster properly is number one understand what resources you have number two understand what resour are resources are available number three understand where those resources need to be located either before during or after a major event um number four is that communication piece being able to have residents Commissioners other elected officials other government officials have a single point of contact that single point of contact doesn't necessarily need to have all the answers or information that single point of contact can get those inquiries or requests out to the appropriate people that are working that that particular scene and then of course the the fifth point is having um somebody to manage all of that um and that's now that we've seen what is lacking and where we're lacking like I said we're already taking those immediate steps we were working on the national in command system the nxs training we've already established the what we're calling the biscane park emergency Operation Center it's not officially an operation Center but that's going to have the the phone line the U email the app um and then we were going to have we are going to have our own incident command which is going to be a combination of police um Administration and Public Works I'll shut up it's all you so I have a couple uh things with communication uh have you guys thought about setting a standard or this is the message that comes out every six hours 12 hours 24 hours whatever it is it's disseminated out to the Commissioners so that way when we get our influx of questions and emails we have a standard message that's two hours old this is what the village is doing with X Y and Z have you thought about that standardizing that message at a certain time frame yep absolutely um in my past experience and what we're going to be pulling in here and I'm sure the chief has done similar with his emergency response to the Hurricanes um when an when an event or when a disaster strikes the first thing that we do is put a communication saying we are aware of the situation nothing is affected at this point this is what we're watching next communication is going to be in 30 minutes um as the situation progresses we can back that off a little bit to say you know what we're still not seeing anything we're going to we're not expecting anything for the next hour that's going to be your next communication or if things start moving rapidly we bump that back up we're experiencing flooding here these are the resources coming in next updates going to be in 15 minutes those updates depending on how we work the emergency plan can either go out to just the internal departments and elected officials or we can make those public we can put those out on the website um we can put those out on the app my recommendation and my my gut reaction is put them out public because it helps cut down on the communic ations you all are receiving as well um it's not just in incident command that gets overwhelmed during these situations it's the elected officials and it's the other departments have you identified a process to put when we escalate this scenario into hours out it's post hurricane physical locations where residents are can be yet but that is um something that we are actively trying to figure out um this is going to be a lot easier once we have once we know more about the generator situation at Village Hall and parks and wreck um The Challenge we're facing right now is telling residents to come to parks and wreck however if it's 3 o'clock in the morning and power is out what are we going to do um you know we we're going to be very limited in our response and and in the supplies that we provide so we're trying to work through what that would look like we may end up needing to have ideally a back back up location um the plan is everybody show parks and rck if you need something or if you have questions this is where the information is going to be posted if parks and wck is wiped out the next step is Publix in North Miami or whatever that works out to be my last before I stop talking my last uh communication thing is does the village have any way of like a contact form or anything like that that that can be filled out by the elderly physically disabled things like that so that are our most threatened residents to for the The Village to check on post incident or even for because trust me as I as I've gone into these disaster zones for family members who can't get in contact with their family to fill out a form online that we can be checking and say hey go check on soand so address for my grandma my grandfather things like that and I'll kick that question over to the chief I know at one point we did have some sort of procedure or list or at risk residents are you aware of that uh we did at one point um I'm not sure what happened to it in the transition but we can get that back out there maybe through the app launching a new part to to register this last um uh incident uh we went ahead and we sent the police door too to every uh resident that was uh affected with the flooding area and they did an entire U door-to-door check in canvas uh just because that that list wasn't able to be located so that's uh we went that route to just double check on everything which we did get one medical call we had to transport ourselves thank you Chief I will say that that list is critically important when you have worst case scenario type hurricane response as a responder to those kind of scenarios we ask for that Lisk as soon as we hit the ground that because that Lisk we start going down and checking off who do we contact who hasn't been contacted who are we missing thank you can I chime in there real quickly sure um Chief I have a copy of the list would you like me to email that to you yes sir please um it is a couple of years old but it's it's it's the last list that I was provided when I asked for it a couple years ago yes sir we we can reach out to sorry we can reach out to each one and get updated information on it and then U uh try to coordinate through getting a a new uh application part for the app also so we can get any new uh residents that want to be added okay so uh Ryan asked a couple of my questions so I only have a couple of really quick things uh the physical location absolutely during Irma that was a really critical thing uh that piece that we were missing and people didn't know where to go physically and um I will just say that regarding a centralized communication the email the uh the cell phone number pushing things through the app that's absolutely it's just kind of Common Sense yes but also we need to realize that people people will still reach out to us they will still reach out to staff members whose cell phones they have so to Ryan's point about having information pushed to us on a very regular basis knowing that we will be the main point of contact for some people as much as I say monitor this call here watch for this go on the App then when Electric's down you know then people start showing up at your house I had that happen during Irma as well people coming over and Mac what do I do so and we were literally thumb tacking signs to trees so um all that centralized stuff absolutely great but we need to be prepared when all of that is down now I have a specific question Chris you and I emailed about this I didn't talk to you about it but we emailed or texted I'm not sure um about the flooding specifically uh it's not just during the storm but after the storm as well we uh purchased well first of all there are two things V trucks and pumps now art you were a commissioner with me then when this happened before um we we approved a contract with I thought it was more than one V truck company that they were on call do you remember that well Chris we don't have one Chris confirmed we don't have a contract um but we did at one point so and do you recall it being more than one company I remember being a list had we had a company and then we had a backup yeah in case they were busy or they or they I looked online through old agendas looking for a copy of these contracts but um we did did have that and I do recall that Linda's nodding her head that during some storm events like they were here like that and really helping especially in areas like 121st I mean they didn't get all the water out by any means but they were able to help quickly so Chris I hope that's something you're you could look into if you think that's advisable but I know we had that before and it helped and they got water out of the village and it was especially after the storms were over and people had there were people that couldn't get out of their house and all of that the other thing was Art help me here uh we purchased a pump or more than one pump right was it just one and an extra long hose I remember the hose was really crazy long and yeah and we approved that I I don't know do we still have that pump I thought we did and um and then chish yeah up on 12 121st I think we used we had a uh um I think it was a county pump come in for 121st but we used the pump up there once the water level went down low enough in the surrounding areas where we could actually it could actually hold more water there where's our pump our pump is at public works it works yep the challenge the challenge with pumps is we have to wait until the water level goes down to a a point where it can accept additional water so when 121 is underwat and all the surrounding areas already saturated there's no place for us to pump so we have to wait till pumped it up to uh 120th and 10th is where it I remember the pump going all the way up there and filling that median full of water and I remember it helping then initially though see here here's the problem the big the big problem here is that in this Village right I've been we have a lot of turnover and we have people come and we have people go and uh and I that's why I wish veronic was here because she's the SOP specialist right and I hate to you know I hate to say it but the reality it is that every time there's turnover and every time people come and people go things drop right so for instance you know when when you and I were back and forth about about the stupid pump right um and you said we're not allowed to pump water right and it took Senator pizzy to say yeah you can can in order for us to actually say okay now we can pump the water right so that I'm not blaming you you didn't know absolutely so but that's just one of the pieces of the puzzle you know one of the things that we need to talk long term is having procedures and Sops in place for different types of emergency not just hurricanes because well that's one but you also have the flooding there rain events there's a lot of places that were probably flooding in that particular emergency you had no idea that even flooded as bad as they flooded right and and and the the guy from Public's Works wasn't here Juan wasn't here either so we're all learning on the fly so in this this particular instance in the last one that Ryan brought up you know it felt to me looking from from the outside and again everybody busted their butts getting everything done but it seemed to me we were trying to play catchup we weren't we weren't we weren't the event and and I'm not blaming anybody it's it's just a fact of the matter that we don't have procedures there wasn't a plan to roll out which is what Chris is putting together for us now I think obviously that you and and the chief need to to really focus on getting these so that because you ain't going to be here forever he's a chief ain't going to be here forever you know and Juan's leaving and so is always is leaving we need to have these things in place in order to be successful absolutely but to the pumps specifically they worked when we had them before we used them a bunch of times they absolutely worked we pumped water onto the rec center field I remember flooding the field front of the right in front of the we cleared this intersection out the rec center was used to pump water too the median at 12th and 10th but we bought I remember getting a ridiculously long hose specifically because we knew that 121st would be an area that would be the first talked about I don't know if we did no we did I remember I went there and watched the water being pumped all it went on for days but to but to Chris's Point there's some areas there's nowhere to pump I understand that but there are plenty of areas where you can pump but but you do have to wait till the water because I mean you can't just add water to a completely flooded area cuz you're just going to no but you can but if you pump it to the rec center field it's far enough away from other flooded areas that it can hold some of that water look when you can see that amount of water sitting on the ground you know that that's that much less water in the flooded areas the other the other challenge we have with pumping is environmental anytime the word septic creeps into the conversation that water cannot be moved the only option for that well there's two options the first option for that water is to let it drain down naturally and then we can treat the area with lime or we have to and this is what you and I tried to do at the county I believe it was you and I maybe it was me and the chief um try to get a pump back truck in to suck that up and then it has to go through wastewater treatment I think Florida durm said no that's that was the problem was when we were calling them trying to get to come out and set the word up to came into the conversation like we won't touch it yep and I think that's what Senator piso he said he called them and he said they made an exception because he put a phone call in well then and then to that exception there's a cell number back out to the county saying no we have the this is this is the information for you and the county said yet no we're not going to do it that was that was not to to kind of Co-op where we're at right now but to talk about resources that was was a a huge problem that we had and again we're not not putting any blame on the county because the county had a lot to do but I I must have went back and forth with the county and our County Commissioner's Office I mean a dozen times and it was going to North Miami no go to this person no you got to go back to North Miami well North Miami's not open up we can't talk to them so by the time the requests finally got in it was the end of the day and then they denied everything and that's where the Genesis of of this Co-op agreement the idea came from and it's a conversation I've had with El portel already and that they're interested in doing say if we can't if we can't go out you know we I think one of the things that this made very clear is that we we really got to do what we can to watch out for ourselves what whatever we can do for the village on our own we should do we shouldn't just say well the County's going to help us because what if it happens that this is again where they've got so much they're just inundated and we're at the bottom of the list so the idea behind it was we may not have the resources all our own but the tri Village area could band together and and could unlock a larger resource pool such that we could get access to more resources where we could share them we may still be sharing them but we're not sharing them with 37 39 counties whatever it's just it's between the three of us that's kind of one of the ideas of how can we work around the LA of resources I'm I'm hopeful that we can make that happen I already know that elport to's interested so that would be a huge a huge push we just have to see how that all shakes out and I mean details right yeah yeah a lot of details like how much money it's going to cost and how we're going to sort of portion out the response and how who gets what and who gets what when and all of that and in the meantime we also have to take care of ourselves course I mean we have to take care of us while we are taking care care of the three villages as well and I think there's a lot more we can do look one of the benefits here is that we're such a small area it's easy for us to get everywhere easily in this Village even even in the worst situations and Roads Clos it's a lot easier to get around this Village than it is to get to another place or for someone to get to us so we need to do as much as we possibly can on our own and uh that's why I'm thinking this this pumps uh to get water to place identify places that can hold water and get water there out of people's way and to resurrect that the whatever agreement that was previous these back trucks we can find that and if we can find out if there still we can't find do we know who the contractor was at least we looked and looked and looked and can't find I think I'll call Mario and yeah ask him or I can call we get the contract we could reach out to the contractor and say we partnered with you in the past we want to renew that we want access to these exactly resources we need them can you call Shante and ask her if she knows where that was would have been stored no yeah oh good for since we're talking TRS we're talking the tri Village area purchasing that's one at the top of the list um are these the same V trucks that would be used to clean drains because we have budget money they're not they're different different V trucks I was wondering we could save a little bit of money on cleaning our own drains that's something the truck could do during the year when we don't have storms yeah the uh the the trucks that clean the V clean the drains um they're a combination of high pressure um and Vac so they have onboard water which is what they use to break up the sediment and then Su but one of the one of the options that we were looking at is um tanker trailers you know can we we have the existing pump can we use that to dump in the trailers I was even thinking about uh what about water bladders we we have a lot of of landscape or real estate where we can house water bladders they go up to 5,000 10,000 gallons and when they when you when you empty them they just fold up into a big tarp could we get multiple water bladders and fill them and then once the ground's ready to accept we start dumping absolutely opens up you put it into a container I don't know if there becomes a legal issue there or not depends on what kind of water you're sucking up to okay so that's an ecological issue we talked about if we were to just do tanks just like tanker trucks we have Village vehicles where we could just hitch up a tank right like take a tank out you got you got the pump pump it into the tank and just move it but of course lot yeah that's that's the next question is how and where so what's the next step here in all of this Chris you're going to put something together for us for us to we're currently in the process of putting together the emergency plan this isn't something we're going to have done in a few weeks or probably by the end of this hurricane season um because we have to go back to those initial steps identify what we have identify what we need identify where to put things set up the communic uh the Communications is already in place um so that will be up and live as soon as we need it the one thing even though this plan is longterm the one thing that I would ask is um while we're having the the discussions on the budget um and the capital Improvement plan the one thing we are we clearly definitely need is either a flat bottom johnboat with a motor or a flat bottom johnboat with a motor yeah it's just a a flat bottom Robo it can go in very shallow water um so we can get to some of these residences um maybe that's a Wisconsin thing no okay um or a let's see I'm from Miami um but yeah either either that or uh um the vice mayor was telling us about lifted trucks lifted pickups that we can use to get into some of these um these residences so the the the short answer is we're working on the plan I don't I can't tell you when it's going to be done um we are at the very early stages and there's a lot to take into account um but we are also taking immediate measures to try to prevent or try to alleviate some of the issues that we've experienced in the short term I just appreciate you putting something together uh because I thought we had one quite frankly and to find out that we don't or that it's that old and and that disjointed and wasn't accessible is disappointing um so thanks for putting it together and but also short-term stuff like vac trucks and pumps and all the stuff just because look another rain event coming if we don't get hit by a hurricane you know we're still going to get another one of those rain events before we're done this year um back to your uh Central email phone Chris this would not be an existing email address this would be like quote an emergency email address correct the way this works is we essentially established the biscan park Emergency Operations Center the operations center has its own phone line um which is depending on the situation essentially just a voicemail um that translates or that transcribes rather to email and then shoots that out tell the to the people that need to see that um and then it also includes an emergency Operation Center email address EOC biscamp park.gov um that email box and those phone lines are only manned during emergencies activated correct a notification we put on the website saying EOC is activated direct all your Communications questions and whatnot here um and then at the updates that we provide will be posted on the eoc's website and then at the end of the event that would be terminated well shortly after the event um we would still have at the end of the event information about disaster uh response cleanup what have you just during the biggest events of course there's no electricity cell surfice during Irma how long were we all down I can't remember I was down for weeks two weeks at least yeah yeah it wasn't home how long was it yeah it was it was weeks I didn't have water for like 10 days on my side of the village Chris uh I touched on it earlier where are we with sandbags do we how are we changing our plans I know we had a vendor we're not going with that vendor anymore um I know I when this event was going on I I ran into one at the rec center and I asked him how many yards of sand does the volleyball court hold it's only me 20 that makes 2,000 sandbags that's what we used to do before that's what I assumed we'd be doing every time and then we just we use that as an opportunity to replenish it afterwards you know and it's already there it seems like we have an in-house sandbag Station built and ready to go the vendor that we were looking at using and we were hopeful about using emergency sandbag response um came back with a pretty significant minimum requirement for every event um so that's out one of the things that we're now looking for in elportal as well as chatting with my counterpart over there we're looking at alternatives to see what else we can use the the short answer the quick answer is we can bring in sand and bulk and bring in bags just like we have in the past um we have to plan ahead um generally speaking for a short burst rain event like we had on June 12th we may or may not be able to get something in because that wasn't really for forecasted to be what it ended up being um but for the major events the Hurricanes the major tropical storms that we know are coming we can do that um for example I've been watching um I forget what the name of it is right now um Trucking through the Caribbean um there's a 40% chance of that turning into something 50 up to 50 okay yeah um that may be something that we're able to get the the sandbag supplies in ahead of a time I know another one is we ran out of barricades we we designated roads were closed but there was nothing closing the roads can we come into uh Mutual Aid agreements with our neighbors that if we run out of barricades and we could lend some we could borrow some of theirs or lend ours out L us I know I know there becomes a storage issue eventually we don't have enough storage we work that Tri count Tri Village area agreement to purchase a bunch and share yeah absolutely we don't have we don't have and perhaps the attorney canine um we don't have official Mutual Aid agreements orus for things like Road barriers um with that said um all of the local managers are in communication during disasters and we can reach out to elportal Miami Shores North Miami um whatever and then request those additional supplies can only imagine that whatever event is taking place that necessitates us to have them they're going to need them too but we can we also block um Chris can we block roads with police vehicles and sort of the the yeah can we block roads with police vehicles and the extra ones that you have is that an option as well caution tapee works really well Chief I'll throw that one to you can we park scarecrows to close roads we we can do that um uh that that wouldn't be a problem usually in the past we use a lot of extra barriers from North Miami uh this time they had such a flood issue that they were uh declined to give us any of their resources but we we can definitely uh try to use some of the bigger areas the patrol vehicles to to block those areas the other thing that's happened in the past that is really unfortun it is when we have blocked roads with barricades people go around them into people's yards and just destroy destroy yards by driving through their yards and we tried to put barricades across yards at at nth court and one uh 13th that was a really bad one that property got two properties on their Corner got destroyed with people going around the barricades and just you know going create a big mud gutters it was awful so yeah we've got to come up with a way to to close things faster and more effectively and you know in and who are these people that speed through puddles and push water into people's homes in the couple minutes we have left are there any additional questions that I can that I or the chief can answer on the emergency preparedness for [Music] you no I just say thank you thank you Chris and we look forward to seeing the the document when you guys get done thank you thank you thank you Chief thank you Mr Mayor Commissioners um okay so uh just the the two police items that we move we'll move over and uh the BP foundation so at this time uh motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second second I thanks everybody have a good evening I was just gonna thank Ryan for pushing us