##VIDEO ID:1nXNBssoGWk##  MY NAME IS HENRY SANTANA CITY COUNCILOR AT LARGE AND I AM THE CHAIR OF BOTTOM OF THE BOSTON CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE. THIS TODAY IS JULY 31ST, 2024. THIS HEARING IS BEING RECORDED IS ALSO BEING LIVE STREAM AT BOSTON DARK OF SLASH CITY COUNCIL DASH TV AND BROADCAST ON LAKE CITY CHANNEL EIGHT RCN CHANNEL 82 FILES CHANNEL 964 BRAIN COMMENTS MAY BE SENT TO THE COMMITTEE EMAIL CC P.S. BOSTON DOT GOV AND WILL BE MADE PART OF THE RECORD AND AVAILABLE TO ALL COUNCILORS. PUBLIC TESTIMONY WILL BE TAKEN AT THE END OF THIS HEARING. INDIVIDUALS WILL BE CALLED ON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY SIGNED UP AND WILL HAVE 2 MINUTES TO TESTIFY. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN TESTIFYING IN PERSON PLEASE ADD YOUR NAME TO THE SIGN UP SHEET NEAR THE ENTRANCE OF THE CHAMBER. IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO TESTIFY VIRTUALLY PLEASE EMAIL OUR CENTRAL STAFF LIAISON COURIER MARK COOGAN AT ASHMONT COOGAN AT BOSTON.COM FOR THE LINK AND AND YOUR NAME WILL BE ADDED TO THE LIST. TODAY'S HEARING IS ON DOCKET NUMBER 111 FOR CITY OF BOSTON'S 2023 ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORT PURSUANT TO THE ORDINANCE ALSO VARIANCE OVERSIGHT AND INFORMATION SHARING BOSTON CITY CODE SECTION 1663 THIS MATTER WAS SPONSORED BY MAYOR MICHELLE WU AND WAS REFERRED TO THE COMMITTEE ON JULY TEN, 2024.  TODAY I AM JOINED BY MY COLLEAGUES IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL COUNCILOR ERIN MURPHY AT LARGE COUNCILOR RECAP HAMPDEN DISTRICT FIVE WE ALSO RECEIVED A LETTER OF ABSENCE FROM COUNCIL PRESIDENT LOUIJEUNE.  THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO JOINED US FOR THIS MORNING'S RELATED HEARING.  I GREATLY APPRECIATE YOUR DEDICATION TODAY. AS A CHAIR I'D LIKE TO SHARE AGAIN FOR THE RECORD AND ANYONE WHO DIDN'T JOIN US THIS MORNING A LITTLE PERSPECTIVE ON THE COMMITTEE'S INTENTION INTENTION AND GOAL FOR THIS HEARING. FIRST I WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT THERE IS NO PROPOSED ACTIONS FOR THE VOTE UNDER DISCUSSIONS TODAY.  WHILE TODAY'S DISCUSSION COULD LEAD TO FUTURE COMMITTEE OR COUNCIL ACTION AND AN AN ALL MY COLLEAGUES ARE ALWAYS FREE TO FILE LEGISLATION OR INITIATE OR INITIATE OTHER ACTIONS.  TODAY'S HEARING IS NOT INTENDED TO LEAD TO A VOTE ON A PARTICULAR RECOMMENDATION AND RELATIVE TO ANY SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY UTILIZED BY THE CITY OF BOSTON. INSTEAD THIS AFTERNOON'S HEARING IS IN SUPPORT OF THE CITY COUNCIL'S LIVING UP TO THE INTENTION OF THE SURVEILLANCE OVERSIGHT AND INFORMATION SHARING ORDINANCE WHICH REQUIRES ADMINISTRATION TO SHARE INFORMATION INCLUDING THE REPORT WE'RE DISCUSSING TODAY AND TASKED THE CITY COUNCIL WITH REVIEWING AND I QUOTE WHETHER THE BENEFITS TO TO THE IMPACT TO THE CITY DEPARTMENT AND THE COMMUNITY OF THE SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY OUTWEIGH THE FINANCIAL AND OPERATIONAL COSTS AND WHETHER REASONABLE SAFEGUARDS EXIST TO ADDRESS REASONABLE CONCERNS REGARDING PRIVACY AND CIVIL LIBERTIES AND CIVIL RIGHTS IMPACTED BY THE DEPLOYMENT OF THE SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY UNQUOTE. WE'LL BE DISCUSSING THE 2023 ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORT AT THE A HIGH LEVEL TODAY. THERE ARE 26 TECHNOLOGIES INCLUDED IN THE REPORT COVERING SIX DEPARTMENTS WITH THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT REPRESENTING THE VAST MAJORITY WITH 19 OF THE 26 TECHNOLOGIES. THAT'S OBVIOUSLY A LOT TO COVER AT ONCE. SO MY INTENTION AS CHAIR IS TO PROVIDE SPACE FOR MY COLLEAGUES TO GUIDE THE AREAS WE FOCUS ON AND COLLECTIVELY DIG IN AND ENOUGH TO IDENTIFY WHICH PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGIES OR DEPARTMENTS ARE OF INTEREST.  FOR MORE DETAIL A FOLLOW UP DISCUSSION WE HELD WE HAD ONE SUCH HEARING THIS MORNING ON THE CITY'S USE OF GUNSHOT DETECTION TECHNOLOGY.  I'VE ALSO HEARD INTEREST FROM COLLEAGUES AND ADVOCATES FOR HEARINGS ON A COUPLE OF THE OTHER SPECIFIC TECHNOLOGIES AS WELL, INCLUDING SECURITY CAMERAS IN BOSTON PUBLIC SCHOOLS WHICH AS CHAIR I HAVE BEGUN WORKING ON SCHEDULING A HEARING TO DISCUSS IN DETAIL BASED ON FEEDBACK FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS ABOUT THE TIMING THAT WILL WORK BEST FOR STUDENTS, TEACHERS, STAFF AND ADVOCATES. I EXPECT THAT HEARING WILL BE SCHEDULED FOR LATER THIS FALL.  ON A RELATED NOTE, THE COMMITTEE RECEIVED FEEDBACK THAT A HEARING IS SCHEDULED ON WEDNESDAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER IS CHALLENGING TIMING FOR MANY COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND ADVOCATES PARTICULARLY ON THE LAST DAY ON THE LAST DAY OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE. FORMER SESSION. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT LIMITED PARTICIPATION BY ADVOCATES TODAY IS NOT AN INDICATION OF LIMITED INTEREST BUT SIMPLY A MATTER OF TIMING.  AS CHAIR I HAD HOPED TO HOLD THIS HEARING EARLIER IN THE YEAR BUT THE ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORT WAS PUBLISHED AND PROVIDED TO THE CITY COUNCIL ON JULY 10TH. THAT TIMING IS ONE OF THE ITEMS WE CAN DISCUSS TODAY TO SEE IF THERE MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO IMPROVE IT FOR NEXT YEAR. IN ADDITION TO QUESTIONS ABOUT THE VARIOUS TECHNOLOGIES IN THE REPORT, TODAY'S HEARING IS ALSO AN EXCELLENT OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS THE APPROACH THE ADMINISTRATION HAS TAKEN TO IDENTIFY TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE AND ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE SURVEILLANCE OVERSIGHT ORDINANCE AND TO DISCUSS THE REPORTING PROCESS ITSELF AND THE REPORT'S CONTENT STRUCTURE WITH THE INTENTION OF GATHERING FEEDBACK ON WHAT WORKS WELL AND WHAT CAN BE REFINED FOR FUTURE REPORTS. AND FINALLY, AS THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR OF THE PROCESS TO ESTABLISH THE REVIEW PROCESS FOR THE COUNCIL IN COORDINATION WITH THE ADMINISTRATION SO WE ENSURE THE ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORT AND THE REVIEW PROCESS MEET THE EXPECTATIONS THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE PUBLIC.  AFTER THE COMMITTEE HOLDS THE RELEVANT HEARINGS, THE COMMITTEE WILL ULTIMATELY BE CREATING A COMMITTEE REPORT IN THE COMING MONTHS WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF CENTRAL STAFF, MY OFFICE AND THE CO-SPONSORS ON ANY HEARINGS RELATED TO THE 2023 ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORTS INCLUDING THIS ONE THIS MORNING AND UPCOMING HEARINGS ON OTHER TECHNOLOGIES AGAIN INCLUDING A HEARING ON SECURITY CAMERAS AND BEEPS AND LIKELY SOME ADDITIONAL HEARINGS ON OTHER TECHNOLOGIES.  THE COMMITTEE REPORT WILL CAPTURE THE CONCERNS AND POTENTIAL RECOMMENDATIONS THAT I RAISED. BUT AGAIN, IT IS NOT INTENDED THAT THE REPORT WILL COME TO A VOTE OR STATE A PARTICULAR DECISION ON ANY OF THIS EVENT AND TECHNOLOGIES.  THE INTENTION IS THAT THE REPORT WILL CAPTURE AN OVERVIEW OF ALL THE INFORMATION AND POTENTIALLY DIFFERING PERSPECTIVES. THE COMMITTEE'S HERE'S THE REPORT WILL BE PLACED ON FILE AND PART OF ME PUBLIC ACCESSIBLE FOR REFERENCE BY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC COUNCILORS, STAFF AND THE ADMINISTRATION.  AS I SAID THIS MORNING, THIS PROCESS IS INTENDED TO BE A RESOURCE NOT A RESTRICTION NOT A RESTRICTION IN ANY WAY. COUNCILORS ARE OF COURSE FREE AS ALWAYS TO MAKE USE OF THIS INFORMATION AND FILE THEIR OWN LEGISLATION TO TAKE LEADERSHIP ON ANY ACTIONS AT ANY POINT.  IT'S MY INTENTION AS CHAIR TO HELP SUPPORT THE COUNCIL'S REVIEW BY CREATING SPACE FOR DISCUSSION AS NEEDED. BUT I WANT TO BE CLEAR ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES SHOULD OF COURSE FEEL FREE TO PURSUE ANY ACTION REGARDLESS OF THIS PROCESS AND YOU HAVE MY COMMITMENT THAT ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES FILES LEGISLATION THAT IS ASSIGNED TO THE COMMITTEE FOR WHICH I SERVE AS CHAIR. I WILL WORK TO SCHEDULE THAT HEARING AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT ANY DELAY AS THE COMMITTEE MOVES THROUGH THIS PROCESS. LASTLY, THE ORDINANCE HAD A PHASE IMPLEMENTATION TIMING SO THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS CREATED THESE REPORTS AND THE COUNCIL IS REVIEWING THEM AS SUCH.  I ALSO INTENDED DURING THIS PROCESS THE COMMITTEE WILL EVALUATE WHETHER THE ORDNANCE FULLY REFLECTS THE ACTUAL STANDARDS AND PRACTICES THE COUNCIL ADOPTS.  NOW THAT THE ORDINANCE THAT NOW THAT PART OF THE ORDINANCE IS IN FULL IN FACT DEPENDING ON ON THE FEEDBACK OF MY COLLEAGUES AND THE COMMUNITY IT MAY BE OF INTEREST TO HAVE WORKING SESSIONS TO SLIGHTLY AMEND THE AUDIENCE TO BETTER REFLECT THE ACTUAL STANDARDS AND PRACTICES THE COUNCIL ADOPTS. NONE OF THE ORDERS IS IN FULL EFFECT AS THIS IS A CITY OF BOSTON ORDINANCE THAT COULD BE A RELATIVELY STRAIGHTFORWARD PROCESS IF WE DECIDED IF WE DECIDE IT IS NECESSARY. IT'S NOT LIKE A HOME PETITION WHERE IT'S MANY STEPS PROCESS THAT REQUIRES THE INVOLVEMENT OF THIS LEGISLATOR AS WELL.  TO BE CLEAR, I HAVE NO PARTICULAR CHANGES IN MIND TO RECOMMEND AT THIS POINT IT'S FLAGGING THAT IT'S SOMETHING FOR US TO KEEP IN MIND AS WE PROCEED TO THESE HEARINGS TODAY AND IN THE COMING MONTHS. THIS HEARING DOCKET IS SPONSORED BY THE MAYOR BUT I WANT TO RECOGNIZE COUNCILOR WEBER AND HIS STAFF FOR THEIR WORK ALONGSIDE MY OFFICE AND IN A ROLE VERY MUCH AGAIN TO CO-SPONSOR A COUNCIL HEARING ORDER.  THEY'VE BEEN ULTIMATELY INVOLVED IN THE PLANNING FOR THIS HEARING WORKING HAND-IN-HAND WITH MY TEAM. AS SUCH I LIKE TO OFFER THE FLOOR FIRST TO COUNCILOR WEBER FOR OPENING REMARKS IF IF DESIRED AND THEN WE'LL INTRODUCE AND HEAR FROM OUR FIRST PANELISTS AND THEN OPEN DISCUSSION FOR ALL MY COLLEAGUES.  I'D LIKE TO NOW INVITE WELL COUNCILOR WEBER.  THANK YOU CHAIR AND THANK YOU TO THE PANELISTS. IT'S MARATHON DAY OF BOSTON POLICE SURVEILLANCE ISSUES AND THANK YOU FOR COMING IT JUST LIKE TO ECHO THE CHAIRS. YOU KNOW, I THINK HE'S RIGHT ON POINT WITH TALKING ABOUT HOW THIS IS REALLY THE FIRST THIS IS THE FIRST REPORT PRODUCED UNDER THIS ORDINANCE THAT WAS AUTHORED BY FORMER COUNCILOR ARROYO THAT HAD YOU COUNCILOR JANEY, MAYOR JANEY AND MAYOR WU. SO YOU KNOW, IT'S UP TO US TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE THIS PROCESS WORK BETTER AND THAT COULD INCLUDE TWEAKING THE ORDINANCE AND IT WILL ALSO INCLUDE FIGURING OUT HOW TO GIVE EFFECT TO THE ORDINANCE AND SOMETHING RIGHT OFF THE BAT IS THAT THE REPORT WAS PRODUCED AS IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PRODUCED BY MAY 31ST AND IT WAS PRODUCED ON JULY 10TH.  I THINK EVERYONE YOU KNOW FOR BEING IN SCHOOL KNOWS THAT YOU CAN'T GET A GOOD GRADE ON SOMETHING. YOU HAND IT IN WAY LATE SO YOU KNOW IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE FIRST THING IS NEXT YEAR OR THAT WHEN THE NEXT REPORT IS DUE THAT IT GETS TO US ON TIME BECAUSE WE WE CAN'T DO OUR JOB AS YOU KNOW, AS COUNCILORS WITHOUT THAT INFORMATION. I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, I THINK SOME ASPECTS OF THE REPORT JUST THAT LEAVE QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED WHICH I'M SURE YOU'LL BE ASKED ABOUT BUT WE CAN FIGURE OUT WAYS TO MAKE THE REPORT MORE INFORMATIVE AND MORE RESPONSIVE TO THE ORDINANCE AS WE GO FORWARD. SO I LOOK FORWARD TO BEING PART OF THAT PROCESS AND I THANK THE CHAIR FOR RECOGNIZING YOU VALUE COUNCILOR I'D LIKE TO INVITE THE REST OF MY COLLEAGUES TO PROVIDE OPENING REMARKS IF DESIRED AS WELL STARTING WITH IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL WITH COUNCILOR AT LARGE COUNCILOR MURPHY THANK YOU. JUST THANK YOU FOR HANGING IN HERE AND LOOKING FORWARD TO CONTINUING THIS CONVERSATION NOT JUST TODAY BUT GOING FORWARD.  I KNOW THAT I HAVE A STRONG PARTNERSHIP WITH MOST OF YOU HERE HOPE TO MEET AND HAVE A STRONG ONE WITH OTHERS BUT LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS CONVERSATION AND FINDING OUT WAYS THAT YOU KNOW THE PUBLIC FEELS SAFE BUT ALSO FEELS LIKE THEY ARE NOT BEING INTRUDED ON. BUT OBVIOUSLY SAFETY IS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S MAIN PURPOSE. SO LOOKING FORWARD TO THE HEARING. THANK YOU.  THANK YOU, COUNCILOR COUNCILOR BUT THEN YOU HAVE THE FLOOR.  THANK YOU, MR CHAIRMAN. GOOD JOB CHAIRING THE VERY LONG HEARINGS THING. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US INTO THE PANEL. THANK YOU FOR STICKING THROUGH AS WELL. I'M JUST EXCITED TO BE PART OF THIS CONVERSATION AS WELL TO LEARN ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO SHARE AND HOW WE CAN CONTINUE TO SERVE THE CITY OF BOSTON AND OUR RESIDENTS THAT THEY CONTINUE TO FEEL SAFE AND THAT WE CONTINUE TO PROVIDE THE RESOURCES THAT EVERYONE DESERVES. SO THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR . AND I'LL TURN IT OVER TO COUNCILOR FITZGERALD.  THANK YOU, CHAIR THANK YOU PANEL. WE'VE GOT A LONG SESSION OUT OF US AS WELL SO LET'S GET RIGHT TO IT. I'LL WITHHOLD MY REMARKS FOR NOW. THANK YOU. GREAT. THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE I WOULD NOW LIKE TO INTRODUCE OUR PANELISTS. THE COMMITTEE INVITED FROM THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT WHICH OVERSEES OR UTILIZES NEARLY ALL OF THE SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY COVERED IN THE ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORT.  LOUISE CRUZ, SUPERINTENDENT OF BUREAU OF INTELLIGENCE AND ANALYSIS PAUL MCLAUGHLIN, DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT , BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIVE SERVICES. JOHN BROWN, DEPUTIES SUPERINTENDENT , ZONE THREE PATROL DIVISION COMMANDER, BUREAU OF FIELD SERVICES.  RYAN WALSH, DIRECTOR OF THE BOSTON REGIONAL INTELLIGENCE CENTER AND CAPTAIN TIMOTHY CONNOLLY THANK YOU, SUPERINTENDENT CRUZ DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT MCLAUGHLIN DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT BROWN AND DIRECTOR WALSH FOR JOINING US FOR BOTH HEARINGS TODAY.  I TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR DEDICATION TO WORKING WITH THE COUNCIL AND ANSWERING ALL OF OUR QUESTIONS. CATHERINE CALLED ME AND I DID NOT RESPOND TO THE COMMITTEE'S INVITATION AND I BELIEVE CAPTAIN CONNOLLY IS NOT IN ATTENDANCE. I WANT TO KNOW TOO THAT I HEARD INTEREST FROM COLLEAGUES TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE BOSTON REGIONAL INTELLIGENCE CENTER USE OF SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY. SO I PARTICULARLY APPRECIATE THAT DIRECTOR WALSH IS WITH US THIS AFTERNOON.  THANK YOU AGAIN FOR JOINING US FOR BOTH HEARINGS TODAY.  DIRECTOR WALSH IS SEATED AT THE TABLE AND OUR OTHER PANELISTS FROM BPD ARE AVAILABLE IN THE AUDIENCE TO COME UP TO THE PODIUM AND ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AS NEEDED FROM THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT WHICH OVERSEES THE CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE MONITORING SYSTEM AND ALSO PLAYS A ROLE IN THE CITY'S USE OF SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY THAT ARE FUNDED BY THE FEDERAL HOMELAND SECURITY URBAN AREA SECURITY INITIATIVE GRANT PROGRAM AS WELL AS THOSE AND THOSE IN USE UNDER THAT GRANT AND THE OTHER EIGHT JURISDICTIONS IN THE METRO BOSTON HOMELAND SECURITY REGION WHICH INCLUDE BROOKLINE,  CAMBRIDGE, CHELSEA EVERETT, QUINCY REVERE, SOMERVILLE AND WINTHROP. WE'RE INVITED WE'VE INVITED FROM THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ADRIAN JORDAN WHO IS THE CHIEF AND ANDREW ALANIZ WHO IS THE ASSISTANT DEPUTY CHIEF OF THE OF ADMINISTRATION BOTH ALL THE PANELISTS ARE WITH US HERE TODAY. I WANT TO THANK BOTH FOR JOINING US TO LISTEN TO THIS MORNING'S HEARING AS WELL AS WELL CHIEF JORDAN US SEATED AT THE TABLE AND ASSISTANT DEPUTY CHIEF ALANIZ IS IN THE AUDIENCE AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS PARTICULARLY RELATED TO THE YOU A AS I GRANT MANAGED BY OEM AND FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY WHICH HAS HELPED GUIDE DEPARTMENTS ON COMPLETING THE 2023 ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORTS, THE COMMITTEE HAS INVITED CHIEF SANTIAGO GARCETTI'S GARCéS WAS WITH US HERE TODAY AND A LAWYER JIMENEZ HAD A MALE DIRECTOR OF TECH GOVERNMENT AND POLICY CHIEF GARCES IS SEATED AT THE TABLE BASED ON DISCUSSION WITH REPRESENTATIVES FROM DEWIT. PRIOR TO THE HEARING AS CHAIR I ASKED THAT DIRECTOR JAN OLMEDO TO BE SEATED IN THE AUDIENCE AND BE AVAILABLE TO COME TO THE PODIUM TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AS NEEDED PARTICULARLY ABOUT HOW DEPARTMENTS HAVE BEEN ENGAGED TO PROVIDE INFORMATION ABOUT TECHNOLOGIES COVERED BY THE ORDINANCE FROM THE PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT WHICH HAS ASSET MANAGEMENT CAMERAS INCLUDED IN THE REPORT. THE COMMITTEE HAS A BI INVITED COMMISSIONER RYAN WOODS COMMISSIONER WOODS UNFORTUNATELY IS OUT OF OFFICE TODAY AND IS UNABLE TO ATTEND FROM THE BOSTON HOUSING AUTHORITY WHICH HAS TWO TECHNOLOGIES INCLUDED IN THE REPORT.  THE COMMITTEE INVITED SHIMANE BENFORD, CHIEF OF BOSTON HOUSING POLICE CHIEF BAMFORD AND ASGARD TO NOT RESPOND TO THE COMMITTEE INVITATION AND I BELIEVE CHIEF BENFORD IS NOT IN ATTENDANCE TODAY FROM THE MAYOR'S OFFICE THE COMMITTEE INVITED TALLEY ROBBINS DEPUTY CHIEF OF POLICY WHO HAS HELPED TO CRAFT AND IMPLEMENT THIS ORDINANCE AND ISAAC YOVEL WHO IS A SENIOR ADVISOR FOR COMMUNITY SAFETY.  I'M GRATEFUL TO HAVE SENIOR ADVISOR SENIOR ADVISOR ISAAC YOVEL HERE WITH US TODAY SEATED AT THE TABLE.  THANK YOU FOR YOUR IMPACTFUL WORK IN OUR COMMUNITY. DEPUTY CHIEF ROBBINS UNFORTUNATELY IS OUT OF OFFICE TODAY AND IS UNABLE TO ATTEND BUT WE WERE ABLE TO COORDINATE AHEAD OF THE HEARING TO ENSURE THAT CHIEF GARCéS GARCéS AND DIRECTOR JOHN AMIEL WOULD BE ABLE TO COVER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE GUIDANCE AND STANDARDS GIVEN TO DEPARTMENTS AND ANY INTERNAL REVIEW PROCESS BEFORE PUBLICATION AND HOW DEPARTMENTS WERE COORDINATED FOR REPORTING ON TECHNOLOGIES THAT HAVE MORE THAN ONE DEPARTMENT INVOLVED IN THEIR PURCHASE OPERATIONS OR USE. HOW DO ITS WORK IN PROVIDING DATA WAREHOUSING AND ANALYTICS HAS HELPED TO SUPPORT THIS NEW REPORTING PROCESS AND IF HOW THE SURVEILLANCE OVERSIGHT ADVISORY BOARD WAS CONVENED AS PART OF THE REPORTING THE COMMITTEE HAS ALSO INVITED A RESEARCHER WHO HAS CONDUCTED EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATIONS ON A VARIETY OF ASPECTS OF SOME OF THE TECHNOLOGIES UTILIZED BY THE CITY. DR. DANIEL LAWRENCE SENIOR RESEARCH SCIENTIST, DNA CORPORATION, THE CENTER FOR YOU FOR JUSTICE AND RESEARCH AND INNOVATION. DR. LAWRENCE IS JOINING US VIA ZOOM AND THANK YOU, DR. LAWRENCE, FOR JOINING US FOR BOTH HEARINGS.  LASTLY, THE COMMITTEE INVITED LOCAL EXPERTS ON CIVIL LIBERTIES CADE CRAWFORD, DIRECTOR OF TECHNOLOGY FOR LIBERTY PROGRAM, ACLU OF MASSACHUSETTS AND ALEX MATTHEWS THE CHAIR THE CHAIR OF DIGITAL FOURTH. AND MY THANKS TO DIRECTOR CROCKFORD AND CHAIR MATTHEWS FOR JOINING US FOR BOTH HEARINGS TODAY AS WELL. OUR FIRST PANEL IS TESTIFYING ON BEHALF OF THE ADMINISTRATION. I'D LIKE TO ASK MEMBERS OF THE ADMINISTRATION TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES AND PROVIDE ANY OPENING STATEMENTS.  DO YOU HAVE A PREFERRED ORDER OR SHALL WE JUST PROCEED WITH BPD THEN? OKAY. AND THEN DO IT THEN SENIOR ADVISOR YEAH, SOUNDS GOOD. I THINK I WAS GOING TO GIVE THE OPENING OR WHATEVER IS THAT'S PERFECT.  THANK YOU SIR. GOOD AFTERNOON AGAIN.  MY NAME IS SANTIAGO VERSUS I'M THE CHIEF INFORMATION OFFICER FOR THE CITY OF BOSTON AND I GET THE PLEASURE OF DIRECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY AGAIN FOREMOST JUST OPENING WITH APOLOGY FOR THE REPORT BEING LAID. THIS IS A TEAM EFFORT BUT CLEARLY WE DID NOT MEET THE THE TIMELINES ARE JUST AN AREA OF IMPROVEMENT MOVING FORWARD. SO JUST OUR APOLOGIES.  OUR DEPARTMENT WORK WITH THE MAYOR'S OFFICE TO COORDINATE THE PRODUCTION OF THE REPORTS AND ENGAGING WITH THE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS THAT HAD SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES THAT NEEDED TO BE DISCLOSED. BUT AGAIN JUST FOR AN OPENING WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE NEED TO EARN THE TRUST OF THE PUBLIC AND WHEN PEOPLE TRUST IN THEIR GOVERNMENT AND THE WORK THAT WE DO THAT WE ALL HAVE BETTER OUTCOMES AND THE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY IN PRESENTING THIS INFORMATION IS PART OF THAT PROCESS. THIS AS YOU MENTIONED CHAIR THERE'S THIS WAS THE FIRST YEAR THAT THE REPORT WAS PRODUCED AND THERE'S A LOT OF WORK IN INTERPRETING AND UNDERSTANDING HOW TO DO THE WORK. WE JUST IN TERMS OF THE PROCESS I BELIEVE THAT AROUND DECEMBER WE REACHED OUT TO THE MAYOR'S OFFICE, REACHED OUT TO DEPARTMENTS THAT WERE SUBJECT TO THE ORDINANCE TO PRODUCE THE REPORTS. THERE'S SOME FORMS THAT WERE GENERATED TO ENABLE THIS SHARING OF INFORMATION. WE WORK WITH THE LRA DIRECTOR OF GOVERNANCE AND POLICY WORK WITH DEPARTMENTS TO TRY TO FILL THE THE REPORTS AND AGAIN THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR THAT WE DO THIS. WE KNOW THAT THERE'S THINGS THAT WE WILL WANT TO LEARN FROM AND DO BETTER NEXT YEAR. THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF WORK THAT WE'VE HEARD FROM OUR COLLEAGUES AROUND THE EFFORT TO PUT TOGETHER THE INFORMATION. SO HOPEFULLY AGAIN AS WE DO IT AGAIN IN THE FUTURE WE'LL CONTINUE TO GET BETTER AND CONTINUE TO INCORPORATE SOME OF THE POINTS THAT WERE MADE ALREADY IN THE PREVIOUS SESSION IN HOW WE DO THIS WORK.  THE LAST PIECE OF THIS IS AGAIN WE WE'RE IN THE BUSINESS OF MANAGING TECHNOLOGY IN OUR DEPARTMENT AND WE KNOW THAT TECHNOLOGY IS IMPORTANT BUT IT'S NOT THE ONLY THING THAT HELPS US GET OUTCOMES. A FITBIT DOESN'T MAKE YOU FIT ENOUGH ITSELF AND IT IS WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY IN THE CONTEXT OF PROCESS OF PEOPLE AND UNDERSTANDING THE OUTCOMES THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DRIVE THAT WE GET THE BEST OUTCOMES AND WE WORK ON ADVISING OTHER DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES AS WELL AROUND I SAID THAT WE SECURE INFORMATION THAT IS SENSITIVE SO THAT WE MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE FOLLOWING UP ON THE PROMISE OF TRUST THAT WE'VE GIVEN TO THE PUBLIC. SO I AGAIN BEYOND JUST THE SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES, THERE'S OTHER WORK AROUND CONTROLS THAT WE PUT IN PLACE TO REGULATE THE ACCESS THE MANAGEMENT OF THAT INFORMATION. SO THAT'S IT.  THAT'S IT OVER TO AFTERNOON.  MY NAME'S AGENT JORDAN. I AM NEWLY APPOINTED CHIEF OF EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS. I FULL DISCLOSURE I WAS APPOINTED 30 DAYS PRIOR TO THE REPORT COMING OUT. I AM I WOULD LOVE TO GIVE SOME CONTEXT ON WHAT THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT DOES IN THE PROCESS IN REGARD TO THE UIC GRANT AND THE NBI HSR ALONG THOSE LINES AND TO GIVE YOU GUYS SOME CONTEXT IS IN TERMS OF HOW WE ARE INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS. I AM INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS AS YOU SAY. SO WE ARE HERE I HAVE PEOPLE FROM MY OFFICE ON THE PODIUM IF WE GET QUESTIONS THAT ARE BEYOND MY SCOPE I'M MORE THAN WILLING TO TO ASK FOR HELP BUT I AM I'M WILLING TO TAKE QUESTIONS.  THANKS FOR THE INVITE. THANK YOU.  GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYONE.  FOR THE RECORD MY NAME IS ISAAC CABALLO. I PROUDLY SERVE THE RESIDENTS OF BOSTON IN THIS ADMINISTRATION AS THE SENIOR ADVISOR FOR COMMUNITY SAFETY.  I'M HERE TO SUPPORT THE WORK OF THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. I HAVE THE PLEASURE OF WORKING WITH ALMOST EVERY BUREAU OR UNIT WITHIN THE POLICE BUREAU FIELD SERVICES INVESTIGATIVE SERVICES, THE REGIONAL INTELLIGENCE CENTER, BUREAU OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND I HAVE THE DAUNTING TASK OF DEALING WITH SITUATIONS THAT INVOLVE PENETRATING TRAUMA SPECIFICALLY SHOOTINGS AND STABBINGS. AND I AND I DEAL WITH THE FAMILIES THAT ARE DIRECTLY IMPACTED BY THE VIOLENCE THAT TAKES PLACE IN THIS CITY. AND ONE THING THAT I'LL JUST SAY TO KIND OF START OUT IS THERE WAS SOME DATA THAT WAS PRESENTED EARLIER AND WHETHER THAT DATA YOU KNOW, IT'S IT'S DATA THAT CAN BE KIND OF USED ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT IN MY OPINION THE ONE THING THAT CAN'T BE USED IS THE EXPERIENCES OF PEOPLE THAT ARE DIRECTLY IMPACTED BY THIS VIOLENCE. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PERCENTAGES IN ALL THESE STATISTICS BUT THOSE STATISTICS REPRESENT PEOPLE AND EVEN IF IT'S ONLY TWO SITUATIONS WHERE THIS TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN USEFUL WHERE THERE HASN'T BEEN A911 CALL, WHERE THERE HAS BEEN A VICTIM SURVIVOR OF THIS VIOLENCE THAT'S TWO TOO MANY AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT THERE'S MORE THAT WE CAN DO AS A CITY TO INCREASE OUR ABILITY TO RESPOND TO INCIDENTS OF VIOLENCE LIKE THIS. WE NEED TO DO ALL THAT WE CAN AND THERE.  THANK YOU, MR CHAIRMAN. GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE. MY NAME IS RYAN WALSH. I'M THE DIRECTOR OF THE BOSTON REGIONAL INTELLIGENCE CENTER. THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT WELCOMES THE OPPORTUNITY TO JOIN OUR PARTNERS FROM DO IT. THAT'S EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AND THE MAYOR'S OFFICE TO DISCUSS THE ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE. SURVEILLANCE REPORT SUBMITTED TO THE COUNCIL THE SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCE ANNUAL REPORTING REQUIREMENT PROVIDES THE DEPARTMENT AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRACK AND PUBLISH INFORMATION AND DATA TO DEMONSTRATE HOW THE TECHNOLOGY WE UTILIZE IS EFFECTIVE AND VITAL TO OUR WORK. TECHNOLOGY DEPLOYED APPROPRIATELY PLAYS A CRITICAL ROLE IN EFFECTIVE POLICING AND OUR ABILITY TO INVESTIGATE AND FOLLOW THROUGH FOR PUBLIC SAFETY TO KEEP RESIDENTS AND OFFICERS SAFE. THE DEPARTMENT IS COMMITTED TO TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY IN ORDER TO BUILD TRUST WITH THE COMMUNITY AND THIS REPORT IS AN IMPORTANT COMPONENT OF THIS COMMITMENT AND ALL THE DEPARTMENT DOES WE'RE COGNIZANT OF HONORING THE PRIVACY, CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES OF EACH AND EVERY INDIVIDUAL WITH WHOM WE INTERACT. THE DEPARTMENT DOES NOT AND WILL NOT SUPPORT ANY MEANS INCLUDING THE USE OF TECHNOLOGY OR COLLECTION OR RETENTION OF ANY INFORMATION THAT WOULD VIOLATE AN INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHTS IN ANY WAY. THE TECHNOLOGIES THE MANY TECHNOLOGIES COVERED IN THIS REPORT WORK TOGETHER ACROSS ALL BUREAUS OF THE DEPARTMENT TO GUIDE DATA DRIVEN DEPLOYMENT AND DECISION MAKING AS WELL AS EQUIP OUR OFFICERS TO PREVENT CRIME, RESPOND TO INCIDENTS AND COMPLETE, THOROUGH AND COMPREHENSIVE INVESTIGATIONS.  WE WELCOME YOUR QUESTIONS AND LOOK FORWARD TO THE DISCUSSION AND TO SHARING INFORMATION ON THE IMPACT AND EFFECTIVENESS OF THE TECHNOLOGIES COVERED IN THE REPORT. I WILL JUST NOTE THAT YESTERDAY YOU RECEIVED A SUPPLEMENTAL DOCUMENT FOR THE ANNUAL REPORT REGARDING BP'S CAMERA AND VIDEO MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS.  WE CAN CERTAINLY ANSWER QUESTIONS ON THAT DOCUMENT AS WELL. THANK.  THANK YOU, DIRECTOR WELLS.  I'D LIKE TO AGAIN ACKNOWLEDGE COUNSELOR WEBER TO BEGIN WITH THE FIRST LINE OF QUESTIONS AND THEN I WILL TURN THE FLOOR OVER TO MY COLLEAGUES IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL AND I'LL GO LAST. I LIKE TO ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO LIMIT THE TIME FOR YOUR INITIAL QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES FROM OUR PANELISTS TO 8 MINUTES PER COUNSELOR INCLUDING PANELISTS RESPONSES. AS A REMINDER AFTER THIS ROUND OF QUESTIONS WE'LL HEAR FROM THE SECOND PANEL OF EXPERTS INCLUDING DR. LAWRENCE AND REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ACLU OF MASSACHUSETTS AND DIGITAL FOURTH AND WE'LL HEAR FROM FROM THE PUBLIC ON THEIR PUBLIC TESTIMONY. I WANT TO THANK OUR ADMINISTRATION PANELISTS WHO WERE HERE THIS MORNING AS WELL, PARTICULARLY FOR OUR MEMBERS OF EPD WHO HAVE ACTIVELY TESTIFIED THIS MORNING. I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T ASK YOU TO STAY WITH US ANY LATER THAN YOU NEED TO BE AS SUCH I WON'T BE ASKING THE MEMBERS OF THE ADMINISTRATION TO STAY WITH US DURING OUR SECOND PANEL FOR A FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS AND SET UP PROVIDE MY COLLEAGUES WITH AN EXTENDED QUESTION TIME DURING THIS FIRST PANEL WITH THE ADMINISTRATION AND WE'LL DO A MORE STANDARD DURATION FOR QUESTIONS WITH OUR SECOND PANEL. I ALSO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS STAFF PRESENT IN THE AUDIENCE TO HEAR THE TESTIMONY FROM OUR SECOND PANEL AND ANY PUBLIC TESTIMONY AND HAS COMMITTED TO FOLLOWING UP ON ANY MATTERS RAISED. DR. LAWRENCE HAS ALSO HAS ALSO A HEART STOP AT 4:30 P.M.. SO I'D LIKE TO ENCOURAGE MY COLLEAGUES TO DIRECT ANY QUESTIONS TO HIM ON RESEARCH AT THIS TIME AS WELL. WITH THAT I'D LIKE TO HAND THE FLOOR OVER TO MY CO-SPONSOR COUNSELOR WEBER. THANK YOU CHAIR.  I GUESS THE FIRST QUESTION IS WE TALKED ABOUT THE REPORT NOT BEING ON TIME. I GUESS WHAT CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE FURTHER? WHAT HAPPENED AND HOW WHAT'S HOW ARE GOING TO FIX THAT FOR NEXT YEAR?  SO AGAIN, WE CAN EXPLAIN GIVE YOU SOME EXPLANATION. OBVIOUSLY AT THE END WE DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE WE'RE GIVING YOU EXCUSES. SO OUR COMMITMENT IS THAT WE WILL WORK TO GET IT ON TIME NEXT YEAR. AGAIN, THERE IS INITIAL COMMUNICATION THAT WENT OUT IN DECEMBER AND FOLLOW UPS THAT WENT THROUGH BUT THERE'S AN INITIAL SUBMISSION THAT IT GETS REVIEWED BY THE MAYOR'S OFFICE AND THE ADMINISTRATION.  THAT SHOULD HAVE OCCURRED IN FEBRUARY. SO WE WERE ALREADY GOING A LITTLE BIT LATE WITH THE INITIAL REVISION. WE BELIEVE THAT WE WILL HOLD OURSELVES TO OUR WORD PARTIALLY BECAUSE AGAIN SINCE THIS WAS THE FIRST YEAR THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT WAS GETTING GENERATED AND KIND OF INTERPRETING THE WAY THAT THE WORK NEEDED TO BE DONE FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT WE THINK THAT NEXT YEAR IT'LL BE MUCH EASIER TO COMPLY WITH THE TIMELINES. BUT AGAIN WHATEVER WE'RE SAYING IS JUST A WAY OF EXPLANATION.  WE WERE LAID THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS OF GETTING THE INFORMATION WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES AND THERE'S A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF WORK FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AS WELL AS TO HAVE SO MUCH OF THE TECHNOLOGIES THAT WERE IN QUESTION. SO AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE AN EXCUSE BUT WE'LL DO BETTER NEXT YEAR. BUT THERE'S A LOT OF WORK AND WE'RE A LITTLE BIT BEHIND IN OUR INITIAL TIMELINE EVEN ON THE INTERNAL REVIEW AND PREPARATION FOR THE DOCUMENT. OKAY. AND THEN JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE INDIVIDUAL TECHNOLOGY PIECE.  I MEAN I THINK IT'S INFORMATIVE FOR US TO LEARN, YOU KNOW,  EVERYTHING THAT'S BEING USED OUT THERE.  THERE WAS THERE WAS SOME DATA ABOUT BODY CAMERAS. I DON'T KNOW WHO JUST ANY DOES ANYBODY KEEP TALKING ABOUT THAT? I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HAS TO GO TO SOMEONE ELSE. SO ARE YOU THE PLACE WHERE MORE REPRESENTATIVES CAN CAN TALK TO IT? OKAY. I MEAN SO THERE IS REPORTING ON ,YOU KNOW, SOMETHING ON A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE NUMBER IS OF BODY CAMERAS BEING NOT USED PROPERLY AND MAYBE NOT BEING ON IT OR BEING SHUT OFF OR NOT DOWNLOADED PROPERLY.  HOW HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN TO ME YOU KNOW HOW THE BODY CAMERAS ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK IN THEORY AND THEN HOW THEY WOULDN'T CAPTURE THE TIME WHEN SOMEBODY IS, YOU KNOW, ON THE JOB.  SO I I'LL DEFER TO MY COLLEAGUES FOR MORE SORT OF DETAILED RESPONSE. BUT THE BODY CAMERAS IS A PIECE OF TECHNOLOGY THAT REQUIRES THE USER TO INTERACT WITH IT. AND OBVIOUSLY WHENEVER THERE'S A HUMAN YOU KNOW, IN THE TECHNOLOGY LOOP THERE'S POTENTIAL FOR, YOU KNOW, STAKES TRAINING, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL TRAINING THAT'S NEEDED. AND SO THE DEPARTMENT IS COMMITTED TO KIND OF CONTINUING TO IMPROVE THAT PIECE AS WE GO ALONG.  BUT YEAH, THERE'S GOING TO FOUR DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE NOT REPRESENTED HERE ON THE TABLE. I WAS GOING TO SPEAK IN THERE WE HAVE WITH BASIN HOUSING AUTHORITY. THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO ATTEND BUT THEY ALSO LISTED BODY CAMERAS. I BELIEVE THAT THEY HAD NOT DEPLOYED THE BODY CAMERAS AND THEY SUBMITTED POLICIES BUT THEY HAVEN'T THE SAME DAY ON BEHALF OF THE ADA.  YOU KNOW IF THE PLAN IS TO START USING THEM I DON'T KNOW BUT WE CAN WE'D BE HAPPY TO PASS THE QUESTIONS TO THE DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE NOT HERE. OKAY.  AND SO THEN I THINK THERE IS THAT THERE IS INFORMATION ON CELL SITE SIMULATORS A CAN CAN ANYBODY TALK ABOUT THAT? DEPUTY MCLAUGHLIN CAN COVER THAT. OKAY.  I GUESS START FROM THE BEGINNING. YOU KNOW WHAT WHAT ARE THEY HOW THEY WORK?  OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON, DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT MCLAUGHLIN. BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIVE SERVICES. I AM I WILL START OFF BY SAYING I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN CELL SITE SIMULATORS BUT JUST TO SAY THAT THE DEPARTMENT DOES HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY HAS REPORTED THAT THE TECHNOLOGY ESSENTIALLY WORKS.  FIRST OF ALL, ANY USE OF THE CELL SITE SIMULATOR HAS TO BE DONE UNDER EITHER A COURT ORDER OR EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES. SO UNLESS ONE OF THOSE TWO THINGS EXISTS WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE COMMANDER OF THE SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT AND THE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIVE SERVICES, IT WILL NOT BE DEPLOYED. CAN I JUST STOP YOU THERE? CAN YOU TAKE A BIG STEP BACK AND JUST EXPLAIN WHAT THE TECHNOLOGY. SURE. AND I'LL DO IT ON A FIFTH GRADE LEVEL, YOU KNOW. SO ESSENTIALLY THE WAY IT WORKS IS WHEN YOU ARE SEARCHING FOR YOU ARE SEARCHING FOR A DEVICE. OKAY? AND THAT DEVICE HAS A UNIQUE IDENTIFYING NUMBER AND IMEI. I THINK DIFFERENT DIFFERENT NUMBERS LIKE THAT THAT CONNECT THAT COME BACK TO THIS PARTICULAR DEVICE. SO IN ORDER TO USE THE TECH THE TECHNOLOGY WORKS OFF OF THAT PARTICULAR IMEI MSA SAY I THINK THERE'S OTHER SIMILAR TYPE UNIQUE IDENTIFIERS THAT EXIST. SO WHEN THE SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT IS GOING TO DEPLOY THAT TECHNOLOGY, THERE'S A WHOLE SERIES OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN THE LEAD UP. THERE'S SAY IT'S A MISSING PERSON FOR INSTANCE ENDANGERED PERSON CHILD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THERE'S A WHOLE OF LEAD UP WORK THAT GOES INTO THAT BACKGROUND INVESTIGATION INTELLIGENCE GATHERING, PRIOR LOCATIONS.  THEY'VE BEEN FOUND IF THEY'VE BEEN MISSING BEFORE OTHER RELATIVES THAT THEY MIGHT GO TO AND THEN THERE'S THEN THEY WOULD BE ATTEMPTS TO DO EMERGENCY PINGS ON THE PHONE. THE WHOLE IDEA WITH THAT IS TO TRY TO TRY TO HONE IN ON A PARTICULAR AREA THAT WE CAN THEN DEPLOY THE CELL SITE SIMULATOR SIMULATOR THE TRUCK TO TRY TO IDENTIFY TO TRY TO IDENTIFY THAT NUMBER THAT DEVICE AND LOCATE THE PERSON. SO IN DOING THAT YOU TRY TO HONE IN ON THAT AREA FIRST SO IT'S NOT SOME BIG GRAB IT'S GOING IN AND TRYING TO FIND THAT AREA AND FOCUS ON THAT AREA AND DOING THAT YOU WOULD THEN ONCE THE ONCE THE TRUCK WAS DEPLOYED YOU WOULD THEN THERE WOULD THEN BE A SERIES OF NUMBERS THAT WOULD BE CAUGHT BY THAT THAT ESSENTIALLY IT'S SIMULATING A CELL A CELL TOWER AND THEY WOULD CATCH THOSE NUMBERS AND IT WOULD BASICALLY CONTINUE UNTIL THEY REACHED THE NUMBER OF THE DEVICE THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. AND AT THAT POINT YOU WOULD THEN THEN YOU WOULD THEN KIND OF DIGGING DEEPER TO THAT EXACT LOCATION AND ATTEMPT TO FIND THE PERSON. OKAY. PROBABLY NOT 100% ACCURATE BUT THAT'S ESSENTIALLY HOW IT WORKS. OKAY. AND THEN I GUESS BECAUSE WE HAD SOME TESTIMONY FROM THE ACLU WRITTEN AND THEY ARE THEY'RE SAYING THAT THERE'S IN THE DATA WE DON'T HAVE A RECORD OF WE HAVEN'T BEEN PROVIDED WITH RECORDS OF HOW OFTEN THAT'S BEEN USED, WHETHER IT WAS THROUGH A WARRANT OR A SUBPOENA, WHATEVER THE COURT ORDER OR EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES BECAUSE I CAN TELL YOU IN 2023 IT WAS USED TWO TIMES BOTH UNDER EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES,  BOTH INVOLVING VIOLENT WANTED INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE ARRESTED. AND DID YOU KNOW WHAT INFORMATION?  I GUESS THE OTHER QUESTION IS WHAT INFORMATION THE BPD RETAINS FROM YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE VAN GOES AROUND LOOKING FOR THE PERSON. OBVIOUSLY IT'S GETTING YES EVERYONE ELSE'S CELL NUMBERS ARE NOT KEPT. IT'S NOT GETTING A CELL NUMBER. IT'S GETTING THE THE THAT UNIQUE IDENTIFIER. OKAY. ONCE ONCE IT'S ONCE IT COLLECTS THAT INFORMATION AND IT IT HITS ON THE ONE THAT IT'S LOOKING FOR IT THEN THEN THE PERSON IS LOCATED AND THEN YOU GO BACK TO THE OFFICE. THE OPERATIONAL MISSION IS ACCOMPLISHED.  THAT IS ALL PURGED THAT THE ALL OF THE NUMBERS COLLECTED APPROACHED SO THEY ARE NOT RETAINED IN ANY WAY.  OKAY. THANK YOU CHAIR. I THINK THAT'S MY TIME.  THANK YOU, COUNSELOR. I'LL I'LL TURN IT OVER TO COUNCILOR FROM DISTRICT FIVE. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR AND DISTRICT FIVE SOMETHING THAT I HEAR A LOT ABOUT IN SPECIFICALLY THE NEIGHBORHOODS OF MATTAPAN HIGH PARK ARE ABOUT THE STREET CAMERAS. THE CAMERAS THAT ARE ON JUST NEIGHBORHOOD BLOCKS AND YOU KNOW, THEY'RE FACING EITHER MATTAPAN SQUARE OR THEY'RE FACING PARK, ETC. THEY SEEM TO BE WHEN I'M AT THE COMMUNITY MEETING THEY SEEM TO BE WELL ACCEPTED FOR WHATEVER REASONS BUT MY QUESTION IS ARE THEY HELPFUL?  ARE WE HAVE YOU GUYS CAN DO YOU HAVE CORY CORY DATA IN REGARDS TO HOW MANY CRIMES HAVE BEEN SOLVED?  ARE THEY BEING USED WISELY? ARE THEY BEING USED OVERALL TO BE ABLE TO HELP TO SAFETY IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS?  CERTAINLY SO. SO WE HAVE YOU KNOW, OUR CAMERA NETWORK IS A CRITICAL TOOL PRIMARILY FROM THE INVESTIGATIVE PERSPECTIVE.  SO DEPUTY MCLAUGHLIN CAN PROVIDE A FEW EXAMPLES BUT WE DO HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION. YOU KNOW, IT'S IT'S DIFFICULT SOMETIMES TO PROVIDE DATA ON SORT OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE PERCENTAGE OF INCIDENTS IN WHICH A CAMERA PLAYED A KEY ROLE, THINGS LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW, IT'S DIFFICULT TO NOT TRACK THEM IN THAT WAY. WE ARE WORKING TO KIND OF TRY TO IMPROVE SOME OF THAT TRACKING OVER TIME BUT THAT CAN BE DIFFICULT. BUT I WILL SAY, YOU KNOW,  ANECDOTALLY FROM OUR EXPERIENCE, YOU KNOW, VIDEO IS IS MAYBE THE KEY FACTOR IN SOLUBILITY IN A LOT OF THESE CASES.  SO OBVIOUSLY PRIVATE VIDEO IS GREAT BUT THE DEPARTMENT'S VIDEO PLAYS A KEY ROLE IN FILLING THOSE GAPS CERTAINLY AND IN AREAS WHERE PRIVATE VIDEO JUST ISN'T GOING TO BE POSSIBLE. SO I'LL DEFER TO DEPUTY MCLAUGHLIN FOR MOCCA. THANK YOU SO BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, AS RYAN SAID, WE DO NOT COLLECT THIS KIND OF DATA BUT I WOULD SAY THIS THAT IN CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS CAMERA FOOTAGE IS USED IN A VAST NUMBER OF CASES AND IT IS IS AN INVALUABLE TOOL BY USE BY INVESTIGATORS IN THE AFTERMATH OF A CRIME TO IDENTIFY AND APPREHEND A SUSPECT AND BY PROSECUTORS IN THE COURSE OF CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS WHILE WE DON'T COLLECT INFORMATION SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED EVERY INVESTIGATION AND STARTS BY DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT CAMERA FOOTAGE OF THE INCIDENT EXISTS EITHER THROUGH BPD CAMERAS, PRIVATE CAMERAS OR BOTH THAT WOULD INCLUDE THE META CAMERAS AND OTHER COLLEGES AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT ARE IN THE AREA.  CAMERA FOOTAGE IS A KEY ELEMENT TO ESTABLISHING THE MOVEMENTS OF BOTH THE VICTIM AND THE SUSPECT BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER THE INCIDENTS AND IS OFTEN COMPELLING EVIDENCE WHEN DETERMINING WHAT OCCURRED AND THE FOLLOW UP INVESTIGATIONS.  THE INVESTIGATORS WILL ROUTINELY EXPAND THAT SEARCH FOR THAT SEARCH FOR CAMERAS WHEN TRYING TO PIECE TOGETHER THE MOVEMENTS OF SUSPECTS BEFORE OR AFTER AN INCIDENT. THIS AGAIN WILL INVOLVE BODY CAMERAS, PRIVATE RESIDENCE CAMERAS, TRANSIT COMMERCIAL LOCATIONS.  THE EVIDENCE IS THEN PROVIDED IN NEARLY ALL IF NOT ALL CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS AND RELIED UPON WHEN SEEKING WHEN TRYING A CASE OR SEEKING CONVICTION THE INVESTIGATIVE VALUE OF CAMERAS.  WE ONLY HAVE TO LOOK BACK. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SHOOTING IN JAMAICA PLAIN ON MONDAY WHICH WAS ACTUALLY WHICH HAPPENED IN FRONT OF A BOSTON POLICE CAMERA. BUT WE CAN LOOK AT A SHOOTING TODAY ON FIRM BALL STREET EARLY THIS MORNING WHEN I WAS DRIVING IN HERE WHICH AN INDIVIDUAL SHOT ON FEHRENBACH STREET THANKFULLY IS IT APPEARS THAT HE WILL SURVIVE THAT THE SUSPECT IN THAT SHOOTING WAS TRACKED ON MULTIPLE CAMERAS FROM THE SHOOTING DOWN TO THE AREA OF THE NUBIAN SQUARE AND HAS BEEN SUBSEQUENTLY ARRESTED OUT IN FRAMINGHAM BY A BY A YOUTH VIOLENCE STRIKE FORCE. SO IT'S HARD TO PUT A NUMBER ON IT. BUT I CAN TELL YOU I SPENT 17 YEARS AS AN INVESTIGATOR ON A SUPERVISOR IN HOMICIDE I SUPERVISOR I OVERSEE THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS.  THERE IS NOT A CASE THAT GOES BY OF OF AN AGGRAVATED ASSAULT, A SHOOTING OR ROBBERY OR ANY OTHER KIND OF CASE WHERE WE ARE LOOKING THE FIRST THING IS THE VIDEO DID IT CAPTURE ANYTHING AND THEN AGAIN EXPANDING FROM THERE TO LOOKING VIDEO IN THE AREA THAT WOULD CAPTURE THE COMINGS AND GOINGS OF THE SUSPECT BEFORE OR AFTER. SO I CAN ONLY SAY THAT AS FOR INVESTIGATIONS IT IS AN INVALUABLE TOOL AND DO THEY WORK SIMILARLY TO HOW ON THE BOSTON TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT CAMERAS WORK WHERE THEY'RE NOT RECORDED, THEY'RE JUST LIVE STREAMS AND THEN THE OR DO YOU GUYS KEEP THE HOW DOES THAT WORK SO ALL OF OUR CAMERA FOOTAGE IS RECORDED KEPT FOR 30 DAYS 30 DAYS AND THEN IF A DETECTIVE IF IT'S PURSUANT TO AN INVESTIGATION LIKE EVIDENCE IN THE INVESTIGATION, THEY HAVE TO SPECIFICALLY REQUEST THAT FROM OUR VIDEO UNIT AND IT IS SORT OF DOWNLOADED, YOU KNOW, IN A IN A MANNER THAT WE CAN THEN USE, YOU KNOW, IN EVIDENCE IN A PROSECUTION OTHERWISE THE FOOTAGE IS AUTOMATICALLY DELETED AFTER 30 DAYS. THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH BOSTON TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S CAMERA NETWORKS. OKAY.  THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND THREE OUT OF FOUR MORE I MEAN EVERYONE WORKS IN THE COMMUNITY FOR SOMEONE THAT'S VERY HEAVY AND PRACTICALLY IN THE COMMUNITY I KNOW FOR MANY YEARS WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON THE COMMUNITY'S OPINION ON THOSE TYPE OF CAMERAS BEING USED IN IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS? SURE. THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION, COUNCILOR . I THINK IN GENERAL FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD FOLKS IN THE COMMUNITY ESPECIALLY POST 2020 ARE HYPER AWARE OF SURVEILLANCE WITHIN WITHIN THEIR COMMUNITY. I WOULD SAY THAT SIMILAR TO WHAT HAS BEEN STATED EARLIER ECHOED THE SENTIMENT THAT I HAVE NEVER HEARD ANYONE REQUEST THAT WE HAVE LESS CAMERAS, LESS TECHNOLOGY. I'VE ONLY HEARD THE OPPOSITE AND I DO SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN COMMUNITIES THAT ARE ADVERSELY IMPACTED BY THIS VIOLENCE.  IN FACT THE MAJORITY OF MY TIME IS IN THESE COMMUNITIES AND THE IDEA OF WHAT IS FRAMED TYPICALLY AS LIKE A PUNISHMENT PLUS WHERE THE CITY IS DOING ALL THAT WE CAN TO ARREST THE PEOPLE AND REDUCE THE VIOLENT CRIME THAT EXISTS IN AN AREA BUT ALSO MAKING IT A PRIORITY TO REINVEST INTO THESE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE ADVERSELY IMPACTED. SO THAT'S WHAT I MOSTLY HEAR ABOUT IS HOW IS THE CITY REINVESTING IN THESE COMMUNITIES TO PREVENT THE VIOLENCE? I HAVE NEVER HEARD ANYONE CRITIQUE THE USE OF TECHNOLOGY I'VE ONLY ACTUALLY HEARD WE WANT MORE AND THAT IS BENEFICIAL WITHIN THESE COMMUNITIES.  NOW I REALLY VALUE YOUR OPINION JUST BECAUSE I KNOW THAT YOU SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT I REPRESENT. SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I WAS ASKING YOU THAT AS WELL TO THE CHAIR I'LL DO THE REST OF MY TIME. I WANT TO HEAR WHAT MY OTHER COLLEAGUES HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR . I'LL TURN IT OVER TO COUNCILOR FITZGERALD.  THANK YOU CHAIR THANK YOU PANEL FOR BEING HERE WITH US TODAY ON THIS.  WELL, IT'S BEEN A LONG BUT VERY EDUCATIONAL DAY ON THIS TOPIC.  IN MY FIRST OPENING REMARKS FROM OUR FIRST HEARING THIS MORNING, I TALKED ABOUT KIND OF STEERING THE DISCUSSION OF NOT SO MUCH IF WE SHOULD USE THIS THIS INFORMATION AND DATA AND HOW IT'S APPLIED BUT HOW DO WE STEER THIS CONVERSATION TOWARDS HOW DO WE USE THE DATA GIVEN TO US TO DIRECT RESOURCES? AND I SORT OF LEAVE AN OPEN ENDED QUESTION AT THAT IS HOW FOLKS HOW CAN WE BEST ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE THAT MIGHT BE RELATIVELY NEW TO THE COUNCIL HOW CAN WE BEST BECAUSE I MEAN I LOOKED AT THE YOU KNOW, SORT OF THE THE SUMMARY IF YOU WILL, THE CHAPTERS OF ALL THESE THINGS AND THE DIFFERENT FROM LICENSE PLATE READERS TO YOU KNOW, NON RECORDING AUDIO VIDEO BODY WORN CAMERAS THE OBVIOUSLY THE SPOT SHOT OF THE CELL THE CELL SIDE STIMULATED SIMULATOR TRACKING UNITS THE CRIME LAB ETC. THE DATA THAT COMES FROM ALL OF THESE THINGS HOW CAN WE BEST USE IT AND I THINK I IT OPEN UP TO YOU AND I ACTUALLY I DON'T KNOW IF WE'D START WITH YOU FIRST UNDERSTANDING HOW IT MIGHT BE APPLIED TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS BEST IF YOU CAN. SO SORT OF BASICALLY JUST CONTINUE UPON WHAT THE PATH YOU WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT TO COUNCIL PEPPERED. QUESTION SURE SO I'VE BEEN IN MY FOR AROUND A YEAR AND A HALF GOING ON TWO YEARS.  THE FIRST THING THAT I DID WHEN I ASSUMED THIS POSITION WAS I MET WITH EVERY SINGLE CAPTAIN WITHIN ACROSS EVERY PPD DISTRICT AND THEN I SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED A MEETING WITH THE YOUTH VIOLENCE STRIKE FORCE AND THEN WITH RYAN AND AT THAT TIME I WAS DAVE CARAVAN AND THE BRICK THAT SIMPLY BECAUSE THE INFORMATION THAT THEY HAVE ACCESS TO OFTENTIMES DICTATES THE WORK THAT'S DONE WITHIN THE CVI SPACE, RIGHT? SO OBVIOUSLY MYSELF AS A PERSON THAT'S IN THE COMMUNITY AND IS ACTIVELY ENGAGING IN COMMUNITY MUCH OF THE INFORMATION THAT I HAVE IS NOT FROM THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT BUT A LOT OF IT IS IN TERMS OF THE WORK THAT I'VE BEEN DOING WITH THE ADMINISTRATION TO DIRECT RESOURCES WHETHER THEY BE FINANCIAL RESOURCES OR SOCIAL SUPPORT SERVICES.  ALL OF THAT INFORMATION HAS BEEN FROM RYAN AND HIS TEAM THE BRICK, THE AREAS WHERE WE HAVE RAW DATA TO SHOW THAT FIREARM VIOLENCE HAS ADVERSELY IMPACTED IN THESE AREAS. SO WITH THAT IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE QUESTION IS IN THE ANSWER AND THE ANSWER IS IN THE QUESTION LIKE EVERYTHING THESE PLACES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE MICRO LOCATIONS WE'RE JUST REALLOCATING FUNDING THERE. THE FUNDING THAT I HAVE ACCESS TO WITHIN MY TEAM WITH THE GOAL OF REDUCING VIOLENCE AND I GOT TO THAT POINT JUST BY LOOKING AT THE DATA THAT RYAN AND DEPUTY MCLAUGHLIN AND OTHERS HAVE ACCESS TO AND IT'S REALLY JUST PUSHING THE ADMINISTRATION AGAIN TO REALIZE THAT WE CAN'T ERADICATE VIOLENCE WE CAN'T ERADICATE ESPECIALLY THE VIOLENT CRIME THAT WE'RE SEEING WITHOUT REINVESTING INTO THE COMMUNITIES THAT WERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AND TO DIRECT TO ALSO A DO IT YOURSELF. ISAAC IS THERE ANY OF THE DATA THAT YOU FELT WAS MORE TELLING THAN NOT THAT CAME FROM THESE CERTAIN YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT WAS SPOT CHATTER OR THE THE CELL PHONES OR THE, YOU KNOW, RECORDING DEVICES OR THAT YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THOSE LIST THAT I JUST SORT OF RAN OFF THERE. ARE THERE ANY THAT MIGHT BE SAYING THESE ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE GIVEN US CRITICAL INFORMATION THAT WE GO OFF OF THAT WE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT SO WE COULD BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THE 91 PAGE REPORT AND I KNOW OUR TIME IS LIMITED AS CONCERNS TO IF I WANT TO FOCUS IN I GET THE REPORT I WANT TO FOCUS ON WHAT WHICH 1 A.M. I READING FIRST TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M PRIORITIZING THE USE OF THAT INFORMATION.  SO I THINK IT'S A MULTIPLE IT'S A MULTIFACETED APPROACH. I DON'T ASK EASY QUESTIONS. I APOLOGIZE AS AS ARE ALL OF THESE THINGS. YOU KNOW WE DON'T FIND THAT ANY ONE TECHNOLOGY YOU KNOW, IS THE SILVER BULLET. YEAH I WISH IT WAS WE WOULD IMPLEMENT IT AND BE DONE HOPEFULLY BUT YOU KNOW I DO THINK IT'S IT'S CAMERAS INCLUDING BODY WORN CAMERAS THAT THAT ARE REALLY HELPING US AND A LOT OF INVESTIGATIVE USES IT IS YOU KNOW SOME OF THE MORE SPECIALIZED TECHNOLOGIES LIKE SHOTSPOTTER LIKE THE TECHNOLOGY IS USED BY OUR CRIME LAB THE FIREARMS ANALYSIS UNIT GETTING EVERY SHELL CASING INTO THE NAVY AND SYSTEM, YOU KNOW, TEST FIRING EVERY SINGLE FIREARM AND TRYING TO BE VERY STRATEGIC ABOUT HOW WE USE THAT OUTPUT DATA WORKING WITH OUR FEDERAL PARTNERS IN THE ATF AND OTHER AGENCIES TO KIND OF MAKE SURE WE'RE INVESTIGATING THINGS WITH A NETWORKED APPROACH IS KEY AND KIND OF ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT THINGS I THINK KIND OF PLAY INTO THAT TO SOME EXTENT THAT ON THE FLIP SIDE I THINK THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT SOMEWHAT CHALLENGING TO PROVIDE, YOU KNOW, CORE STATS ON SOME OF THESE THINGS. YOU KNOW HOW EFFECTIVE IS JUST ONE TECHNOLOGY IN THIS, YOU KNOW, COMPLEX PROCESS THAT YOU KNOW EVERY INVESTIGATION ESPECIALLY IN MODERN TIMES IS EXTREMELY COMPLEX. YOU KNOW, MCLAUGHLIN CAN CERTAINLY TELL YOU BETTER THAN I CAN HOW COMPLEX THESE THINGS ARE. BUT I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO TAKE A YOU KNOW, KIND OF A ALL AND APPROACH AND USE OUR USE OUR TECHNOLOGIES.  AND THEN I THINK THE OTHER KEY PIECE FROM THE POLICE FARM PERSPECTIVE IS PARTNERING WITH NON-POLICE AGENCIES RIGHT THROUGH ISAAC'S TEAM ALL OF OUR PARTNERS THAT WE HAVE OUT THERE MAKING SURE THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT DATA FROM THE RESOURCES AT THE APPROPRIATE LEVEL. RIGHT. WE CAN'T WE KNOW WE CAN'T SHARE EVERYTHING DUE TO SEIZURES AND DIFFERENT YOU KNOW, REGULATORY COMPLIANCE THAT WE HAVE BUT MAKING SURE EVERYONE'S AS INFORMED AS POSSIBLE, YOU KNOW, IN THAT AREA. AND THEN I WOULD JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE IN THE BREAK WE ARE CONSTANTLY LOOKING TO IMPROVE OUR DATA COLLECTION IN ALL DIFFERENT WAYS, RIGHT? SO WE'RE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE DATA NEEDS OF THE DEPARTMENT, WHAT THE DATA NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY THE CITY ARE AND KIND OF ADJUST OUR RESOURCES SO WE FREQUENTLY KIND OF REEVALUATE THE THAT WE HAVE OUR ANALYSTS FOCUSED ON TO MAKE SURE WE'RE COVERING THE CORE THINGS IN THAT REGARD AND HAVE SIMILAR WITH OUR TECHNOLOGY PORTFOLIO AS WELL I MAY AS WELL AND WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME THINKING ABOUT HOW TO MEASURE THE EFFECTIVENESS NOT ONLY OF TECHNOLOGY BUT OTHER THINGS AND WE HAVE A GREAT DATA ANALYTICS TEAM AND HAVE BEEN BUILDING CAPABILITY AND BEING ABLE TO ANALYZE AND ALSO PROCESS THE TYPES OF REPORTS AND INSIGHTS THAT ARE COMING FROM ACADEMICS AND OTHERS TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT TELLS US ONE TO THE POINT THAT HAS BEEN MADE THERE'S TECHNOLOGY TO HELP SUPPLEMENT UNDERSTAND AN ISSUE. IT'S NOT LIKE JUST LIKE A DIAGNOSTIC WHEN YOU'RE SICK IT'S NOT THE THING THAT'S GOING TO KILL YOU IS NOT THE TREATMENT BUT IT HELPS YOU UNDERSTAND AND IT SHOULD. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO IN OUR PARTNERSHIP WITH WITH POLICE AND WITH OTHERS THAT ARE USING ANY TYPE OF TECHNOLOGY IS ASK ARE THERE OTHER TECHNOLOGIES, ARE THERE OTHER WAYS IN WHICH YOU CAN KNOW THE THING THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO THE TECHNOLOGY WE BEING REDUNDANT ARE DO WE UNDERSTAND THE BIAS IN HOW IT IS, HOW THESE TOOLS WORK? SO AGAIN, I THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES IN IMPROVING HOW WE MEASURED THE EFFECTIVENESS. BUT WE ALSO NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE EFFECTIVENESS FITS PIECES OF A PROCESS LIKE THAT WHETHER IT'S TO RESPOND TO SOMETHING, TO GET EVIDENCE, TO DO SOMETHING, TO GET SITUATIONAL AWARENESS DURING A REAL TIME EVENT AND THAT'S THE PIECE THAT WE WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KNOW HOW THE TECHNOLOGY IS GOING TO WORK. DO WE KNOW AND IT'S A WORK IN PROGRESS AND THAT'S WHAT THESE CONVERSATIONS ARE HELPFUL BECAUSE THEY HELP US ASK BETTER QUESTIONS AND AND THINK ABOUT HOW TO USE THE LIMITED RESOURCES BETTER. THANK YOU. I THINK LASTLY JUST A RECOMMENDATION ON AS YOU GUYS CONTINUE TO IMPROVE YOUR PROCESSES, IMPROVE THE TECHNOLOGY AND IMPROVE HOW IT'S IMPLEMENTED AND THE IMPACT IT HAS ON THE COMMUNITY WHETHER NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE. YOU KNOW WE ALL REACH OUT TO YOU ALL AND VERY BUT EVEN AS AS YOU DO THAT PLEASE LET US KNOW AS YOU'RE SEEING IN REAL TIME WHAT YOU THINK THE RESOURCES THAT WOULD BE NEEDED TO MOST EFFECTIVELY COMBAT WHAT YOU'RE SEEING OUT THERE AND AND LET US KNOW HOW WE CAN BE HELPFUL TO THAT COMMUNITY AND I KNOW THAT WILL OCCUR AND IT ALREADY HAS OCCURRED BUT JUST FEEL FREE TO REACH OUT TO ALL OF OUR OFFICERS AT ANY TIME. I KNOW BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE TECHNOLOGY AND INFORMATION AS YOU GUYS HAVE EXPLAINED IT IS IS INVALUABLE INTO INTO HOW WE CREATE CONTINUE TO CREATE OUR CITY AND MOLD OUR CITY INTO A BETTER PLACE. AND SO WE JUST WANT TO BE A SUPPORTIVE AS WE CAN. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH CHAIR AND I'LL GO BACK THE REST OF MY TIME AS WELL. GREAT. THANK YOU COUNSELOR.  I WILL NOW ASK A FEW QUESTIONS AND THEN I'LL ACTUALLY GO BACK AND DO A SECOND ROUND FOR ANY OF THOSE WHO WANT TO DO A SECOND ROUND AND THEN WE'LL GO OVER TO OUR NEXT PANEL.  I AM GOING TO DIRECT SOME OF THE QUESTIONS TO OEM SO I DON'T KNOW IF ANDREW IF YOU WANT TO ALSO COME DOWN OUR DEPUTY DIRECTOR I SHOULD SAY BUT BEFORE I WANT TO START WITH I WAS ISAAC OR YOUR SENIOR ADVISOR YOVEL I SHOULD SAY ISAAC YOU KNOW REALLY APPRECIATE YOU KNOW LOT OF MY COLLEAGUES MENTIONED THAT THE WORK THAT YOU DO IN OUR COMMUNITY AS A KID FROM ROXBURY AND YOU KNOW, JUST SEEING YOU ON THE GROUND, SEEING SOMEONE LIKE YOU ON THE GROUND IS VERY IMPORTANT.  WITH THAT BEING SAID, YOU KNOW, WE'D LIKE TO HAVE WHAT HAS BEEN LIKE THE MAYOR'S OFFICE, HIS ROLE AND YOUR OFFICE'S ROLE IN SHAPING THE POLICIES AND GUIDELINES FOR THE DEPLOYMENT OF SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY SPECIFICALLY?  UM, VERY LIMITED.  I CAN I WORK WITH MEMBERS OF THE BRIC BIS BUT I DON'T HAVE A DIRECT SAY SO IN SHAPING THAT THE TECHNOLOGY LOCATIONS WHERE WE DO THAT YEAH I THINK YOU WELL I LIKE TO GO ON THE RECORD I THINK THAT YOU SHOULD ASK SOMEONE AGAIN WHO SEES US ON THE GROUND WHO ARE DEALING WITH A LOT OF THE VICTIMS, A LOT OF THE PEOPLE DOING THE CRIME AND ALL THAT. I THINK YOU SHOULD BE PART OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS.  REALLY APPRECIATE THAT NOT GOING OVER TO WHAT WE YOU KNOW CHIEF JORDAN, CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR ROLE AND EXCITED TO SEE YOU AND YOUR TEAM AND IN THIS NEW ROLE AND LEADERSHIP, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU AND YOUR TEAM ELABORATE ON THE CRITERIA USED TO DETERMINE WHICH TECHNOLOGIES ARE FUNDED BY THE HOMELAND SECURITY URBAN AREA SECURITY INITIATIVE GRANT PROGRAM IS ONE I WANT TO SEE WHAT WERE THE REQUIREMENTS? WELL, WHAT'S THE PROCESS OF DECIDING WHICH TECHNOLOGIES WE USE HERE? AND I THINK I'M GOING TO DEFER TO ANDREW ABOUT THE SPECIFIC OR THE INTRICACIES BUT A BRIEF OVERVIEW IF I IF I MAY OF THE PROCESS AND HOW IT WORKS WITH OEM AND HOW WE ARE PRETTY MUCH A FIDUCIARY WE FACILITATE MONEY COMES INTO THE STATE RIGHT THE STATE THEN WE WITH THE OTHER NINE COMMUNITIES THEY DETERMINE WHICH TECHNOLOGY THEY WANT TO PURCHASE. WE ARE THE FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBLE FOR PRETTY MUCH DEALING WITH THE PURCHASING OF BITUMEN OF THE PRODUCTS THAT THEY DETERMINE THAT THEY NEED. BUT ANDREW COULD SPEAK MORE TO SOME SPECIFICS I MEAN IN TERMS OF LIKE HOW WE DETERMINE WHAT THEY BUY HOW THEY BUY IT WHAT WHAT WHAT SPECIFIC TECHNOLOGY TO USE WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING. WE ARE SIMPLY THE FIDUCIARY FOR THE NINE COMMUNITIES SOMEBODY HAS TO HAVE THE MONEY BUT YOU DO DO IT FOR BOSTON FOR FOR OUR CITY WHEN YOU SAY DO IT FOR BOSTON. SO I MEAN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FOR THE OTHER CITIES. NO, NO, NO. WE'RE INCLUDED IN THE NINE COMMUNITIES IS MY POINT. BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY BUY LIKE BPD, WE DON'T TELL PEOPLE WHICH TECHNOLOGY THEY CAN AND CANNOT BUY. WE TELL THEM HEY WHAT'S SPECIFIC TO THE GRANT?  THE GRANT SAYS HEY, THIS IS THE EQUIPMENT THAT YOU CAN PURCHASE. THANK YOU FOR THAT CONVERSATION AND IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO THAT YEAH, THANK YOU CHIEF AND THANK YOU CHAIR JUST TO ELABORATE ON WHAT CHIEF JORDAN SAID, THE GUIDANCE FOR WHAT IS ALLOWABLE UNDER THE GRANT COMES IN THE NOTICE OF FUNDING OPPORTUNITY FROM FEMA PASSED THROUGH IT UP TO US AS CHIEF JORDAN MENTIONED OEM DOES NOT HAVE A VOTE IN ANY OF THE ALLOCATIONS. WE ARE JUST THE FIDUCIARY AGENT THAT MAKES SURE THAT ALL THE PROCUREMENT IS FOLLOWING CHAPTER 30 B STATE LAW AND WITHIN THE GRANT GUIDANCE AS TO WHAT'S ALLOWABLE UNDER THE GRANT. SO FOR ANY SPECIFIC TECHNOLOGIES SUCH SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY USED BY BP, WE'RE IN CLOSE CONTACT WITH RYAN IN THE BRIC AND SIMILARLY ONE TRICKY THING WITH THIS ORDINANCE IS OUR ROLE AS THE FIDUCIARY FOR THE REGION.  SO IF THERE'S A TECHNOLOGY THAT EVEN THE BOSTON POLICE IS NOT USING IT, IF ANOTHER AGENCY'S OR ANOTHER MUNICIPALITIES POLICE DEPARTMENT IS USING IT AND IT'S THROUGH THIS FEDERAL FUNDING, THAT'S WHERE IT GETS A LITTLE TRICKY. I WOULD SAY.  BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY OEM IS NOT THE END USER OF ANY OF THESE SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES. OKAY, GREAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE THAT.  DIRECTOR WALSH, I THINK EARLIER YOU KNOW, YOU THINK IN RESPONSE TO ONE OF THE QUESTIONS YOU HAD, ONE OF YOUR RESPONSES WAS THAT CAMERA SURVEILLANCE WAS DELETED AFTER 30 DAYS. IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT CORRECT? NOW IS THE WORD DELETED? DOES THAT MEAN THAT IS ACTUALLY PART OF MINI DELETED IF IF AFTER THE 30 DAYS THAT SAY THERE WAS AN INCIDENT THAT CAME UP OR AND THEN WE WOULD NEED ACCESS TO THAT THERE'S NO WAY THAT EVEN ON A LOCAL LEVEL WHAT EVEN IF THEY CAN'T ACT CAN YOU CLARIFY THAT SO I SHOULD CLARIFY SO OUR BODY WORN CAMERA IS GOVERNED BY A DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT RULE THAT HAS DIFFERENT RETENTION REQUIREMENTS BUT OUR SURVEILLANCE SORT OF THE DO IT OR THE BPD CAMERA NETWORK THAT PART OF THAT THIS TECHNOLOGY THAT'S 30 DAYS I HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN TRYING TO HELP SOMEONE GET FOOTAGE AT THE 30 DAY MARK AND I'VE SEEN IT IN THE SYSTEM BEING DELETED AND I'VE WORKED WITH, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT PARTNERS WHO WHO NEED IT LONGER THAN THAT AND IT IS TRULY DELETED AND NOT AVAILABLE.  OKAY THANK YOU AND DIRECTOR WAS I THINK IN WELL NO I APPRECIATE THAT IN TERMS OF THE BODY CAMERAS, I KNOW COUNCILOR WEBER ASKED EARLIER I MEAN CAN YOU JUST GO INTO I GUESS THE DETAILS OF WHAT IS WHEN CAN AN OFFICER TURN THEM TO WHAT ALLOWED FOR AN OFFICER TO DO IT? I MEAN WHAT IS THE RIGHT CAN THEY NOT TO TURN IT OFF WHENEVER THEY WANT TO? WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES WHEN AN OFFICER DOES TURN IT OFF WHEN THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO? I JUST WANT TO HAVE MORE CLARIFICATION TURN AROUND AROUND THAT PROCESS. SURE. SO I DEFER TO DEPUTY BROWN TO COVER SOME OF THAT BUT THEY ARE WELL, HE'S COMING UP YOU KNOW IT IS GOOD FOR THE USE OF THE BODY CAMERAS IS GOVERNED BY A DEPARTMENT RULE FOUR OR FIVE THE BODY WORN CAMERA POLICY.  THERE'S A FAIR AMOUNT OF DETAIL IN THE REPORT, YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT AND ABOUT THE INITIAL AUDIT THAT WAS CONDUCTED LAST YEAR AROUND THE CAMERA USAGE THAT'S ON PAGE 34 TO 37 OR 38. SO I DEFINITELY WOULD DEFER TO THAT AND OTHERWISE I'LL DEFER TO DEPUTY BROWN. SO I'M RELATIVELY NEW TO THE BARREL FIELD SERVICES BUT JUST BASED UPON WHAT I KNOW FROM THE DISTRICT LEVEL THE OFFICERS ARE ISSUED THE BODY WORN CAMERAS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE THEM ON WHEN THEY GET INTO THE CAR, WHEN THEY EXIT THE CAR AND THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE ENCOUNTER THEY MAY HAVE WITH SOMEONE DURING A911 CALL AT THE END OF THEIR TOURS OF DUTY THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BRING THEM BACK TO THE STATION AND THERE'S A DOCKING STATION WHERE THE WHERE THE VIDEO WILL BE DOWNLOADED AUTOMATICALLY EVERY WEEK WE GET A COMPLIANT LETTER FROM AXON WHO'S THE COMPANY THAT HANDLES THE BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE AND IT GOES TO EACH AND EVERY OFFICER OF THE PERCENTAGE OF TIME THEY HAD THE BODY WORN CAMERA ON AND THEY WERE WEARING IT AND AND WHEN IT WAS OFF SO THE CAPTAIN OF EACH DISTRICT WILL KIND OF PASS THE WORD DOWN TO THE LIEUTENANT AND THAT'S TO THE SERGEANT DURING ROLL CALLS TO LET THESE PEOPLE KNOW YOUR BODY WORN CAMERAS SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON A CERTAIN TIME SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON AT ANOTHER TIME ALSO DURING INVESTIGATIONS WHEN WE GET TO THE INVESTIGATIVE STAGE OF AN INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED ON THE STREET, THERE'S A COURT I FORGET THE THE NUMBER OF THE CODE BUT THE SUPERVISOR CAN DIRECT PEOPLE TO SHUT THEIR BODY WORN CAMERAS OFF ONCE THE SCENE HAS CALMED DOWN UNLESS THEY HAVE TO INTERACT WITH SOMEONE SOMETIMES WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE GETTING TOO MUCH OVER SURVEILLANCE OF CAMERAS OF PEOPLE AT SCENE SO WE DON'T WANT WITNESSES STATEMENTS COMING OUT AT THE SCENE. WE KIND OF WANT WITNESSES TO BE TRANSPORTED TO DIFFERENT LOCATIONS TO BE INTERVIEWED. SO THERE IS A TIME WHEN A SUPERVISOR CAN DIRECT OFFICERS AT THE SCENE TO SHUT THE BODY WORN CAMERA OFF. BUT ASIDE FROM THAT, THE BODY WORN CAMERA IS PRETTY MUCH BEYOND WHAT AS SOON AS THEY RECEIVE A901 CALL GET INSIDE THEIR VEHICLE WHICH MOST OF THE TIMES WHEN I WHEN I'VE REVIEWED AS A SERGEANT DETECTIVE I CAN SEE IT BUFFERING AND GOING ON AS THEY'RE DRIVING TO CALLS AND THEN THEY GET OUT THEY GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE ENCOUNTER WITH WITH A RESIDENT OR WHOEVER THE NUMBER ONE CALLER IS OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE AND THEN IT'LL GET SHUT OFF WHEN HE GETS BACK TO THE STATION AND DOCKED IN THE DOCKING PORT. THEN JUST A QUICK FOLLOW UP. I MEAN YOU KEEP SAYING WE SHOULD HAVE IT ON. I MEAN WHAT HAPPENS IF IF A SUPERVISOR DID NOT INSTRUCT THEM TO TURN IT OFF AND IT DOES HAPPEN? I MEAN I KNOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PERCENTAGES. SOUNDS LIKE IT'S UP TO THE DISCRETION OF THE OF THE CAPTAIN AND LIEUTENANTS IN TERMS OF DISCIPLINARY ACTION OR FOLLOW UP. BUT CAN YOU JUST CONFIRM THAT CORRECT. SO THE CAPTAIN MONITORS I ALONG WITH THE CAPTAINS IN AREA E WE MONITOR THE COMPLIANCE AND WE HAVE DISCUSSIONS WITH THEM. WE'LL FIND OUT HEY, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THIS? WHY IS THIS CAMERA NOT ON WHAT'S HAPPENING? WE TRY TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE ROOT CAUSES WHATEVER REASON IS FOR THOSE CAMERAS NOT BEING ON AND IT WILL BE ADDRESSED WITH THE OFFICER THROUGH THE CAPTAIN, THROUGH THE LIEUTENANT AND THROUGH THE IMMEDIATE SUPERVISOR IF THERE'S AN ISSUE THAT'S KIND OF A LITTLE BIT BIGGER THAN THAT, WE'LL HAVE THEM WRITE AN INTERNAL INVESTIGATIVE REPORT, A FORM 26 AS TO WHY THIS KIM WASN'T ON AT A PARTICULAR TIME WHEN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON. GREAT. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT.  THAT'S MY TIME NOW. SO WE'RE GOING TO THANK YOU MY OTHER QUESTIONS. AND I ALSO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE'VE BEEN JOINED BY DISTRICT NINE CITY COUNCILOR LIZ BREEDEN. COUNCIL IS DUE SO YOU CAN CATCH YOU UP. WE'RE GOING TO DO A SECOND ROUND WITH THIS CURRENT PANEL FOR THOSE FOUR FOR THOSE COUNCILORS WHO WANT TO AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO SWITCH OVER TO OUR SECOND PANEL SO I'LL HAND IT OVER TO MY CO-SPONSOR ON CONSOLE. WELL THANK YOU CHAIR.  I GUESS I HAD A FOLLOW UP QUESTION ON THE ON THE ACQUISITION OF THE CELL SITE. IT'S CALLED STINGRAY. I KNOW THERE WAS A REPORT FROM WDR AND PROPUBLICA THAT THAT TECHNOLOGY WAS ACQUIRED USING LIKE FORFEITURE FUNDS OR IT HAS ANYBODY SO AND MY QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, I'M ASSUMING THAT'S ACCURATE AND THAT THE CITY COUNCIL WAS NOT YOU KNOW, MADE AWARE OF THAT OR WE YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T WEIGH IN KNOW I THINK THE ORDINANCE PERMITS SOMETHING LIKE THAT BUT THEN WITHIN 30 DAYS TO BE NOTIFYING SO CAN ANYONE TALK ABOUT YOU KNOW, NOT NOT HAVING COUNCIL AUTHORIZATION UH USING THOSE FUNDS FOR THAT TECHNOLOGY AND YOU KNOW WHETHER THE CITY'S IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE ORDINANCE ON THAT ANYBODY I APOLOGIZE GETTING YOUR STEPS IN I CAN'T SPEAK PRECISELY TO IT BUT WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT IS THAT WE HAVE NOT MADE ANY PURCHASES RELATIVE TO THAT IN SOME PERIOD OF TIME. SO IT DEFINITELY PROCEEDING THE SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCE BEING PUT INTO EFFECT SO SO I CAN'T ANSWER SPECIFICALLY WHEN IT WAS PURCHASED AND WHAT THE PROCESS WAS BUT I KNOW IT WAS NOT DONE IN DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME. I GUESS JUST YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE LAST YEAR AND THEN MAYBE THIS IS IN THE REPORT AND I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT KNOWING THIS WHETHER ANY OTHER SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES WERE PURCHASED USING THIS TECHNIQUE OF HAVING FUNDS THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAD ON HAND NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF . SO THE SAME NONE THAT I'M AWARE OF . OKAY.  OKAY. THANK YOU. I GUESS A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE THE BRICK.  YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HEARD FROM THE COMMISSIONER THAT THE BRICK CAN BE A TOOL WHERE IF THERE'S A YOU KNOW, VIOLENT INCIDENT THEN THE VPD CAN BE ON NOTICE THAT IF AN INVOLVED GANG MEMBERS THAT YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL REPRISALS AGAIN THEY CAN MONITOR PEOPLE TO MAKE SURE EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY HAVE PERPETRATED THE INITIAL VIOLENT ACT OF PROTECTING THEM. DO YOU KNOW IF IN THE RECENT SHOOTING IN JP MONDAY WHETHER THE BRICK WAS INVOLVED OR THERE WAS ANY GANG AFFILIATION?  WAS THERE CERTAINLY A GIVEN THE RECENCY OF IT I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO INTO TOO MUCH INVESTIGATIVE DETAIL GIVEN THAT A LOT OF THINGS ARE STILL PENDING. OF COURSE BUT I WILL SAY OUR REAL-TIME CRIME CENTER WAS INVOLVED IN REVIEWING CAMERA FOOTAGE FOR THAT INCIDENT AND ASSISTED IN KIND OF INFORMING OUR COMMAND STAFF AND OFFICERS AS THEY WERE GOING TO THE SCENE THAT WE HAD THE VIDEO ALLOW THEM TO VIEW THE VIDEO TO GIVE THEM A CONTEXT AROUND THE INCIDENT BEFORE YOU KNOW, THEY WERE EVEN THERE.  AND THEN IN THE IMMEDIATE FOLLOW UP OUR ANALYSTS WERE INVOLVED IN PROVIDING BACKGROUND ON THE VICTIM AND THE SUSPECT THAT WAS EVENTUALLY IDENTIFIED AND WERE ABLE TO KIND OF PROVIDE THAT CONTEXTUAL INFORMATION FROM PRIOR, YOU KNOW, LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTACT AND THINGS LIKE THAT. OKAY.  AND THEN SO IS IT TRUE THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S LOOK IS INVESTING IN THE BRICK TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S YOU KNOW, DO YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION ON THAT? SORRY ONE SEC HERE GETS THE RIGHT NOTES PAGE SO WE ARE AWARE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S INVESTIGATION OF THE YOUTH VIOLENCE STRIKE FORCE AND THE GANG DATABASE. THE DEPARTMENT'S BEEN FULLY COOPERATIVE WITH THE INQUIRY BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE FOR OVER TWO YEARS NOW AND TO DATE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE HAS NOT INFORMED THE DEPARTMENT OF ANY FINDINGS OF MISCONDUCT OR RACIALLY BIASED POLICE PRACTICES THAT I GUESS HAS HAS THE DEPARTMENT CHANGED ANYTHING WITH AND I THINK THE PROBLEM IS HOW PEOPLE GET ON THE LIST YOU KNOW, WITH THE POINTS SYSTEM OR YOU KNOW, MAY BE AN ACTUAL CONFIRMED AFFILIATION WITH SOMETHING THEY MIGHT JUST BE TALKING SEEN TALKING TO SOMEONE OR BE RELATED TO IS SO HAVE THERE BEEN ANY CHANGES IN REACTION TO THE AG'S INVESTIGATION? SO I WOULD HESITATE TO SAY THAT WE'VE DONE ANY CHANGES IN REACTION TO AN INVESTIGATION WE HAVE. WE ARE CONTINUALLY LOOKING TO IMPROVE OUR PROCESSES THERE HAVE NOT BEEN ANY CHANGES TO RULE 335 WHICH GOVERNS THE GANG ASSESSMENT DATABASE IN THE PAST YEAR OR TWO. SO WE'RE STILL OPERATING UNDER THAT RULE. THE LAST REVISION TO THAT I THINK WAS IN 2021 BUT WE ARE OBVIOUSLY CONSTANTLY, YOU KNOW, ASSESSING OUR PROCESSES AND MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL YOU KNOW,  STATE, FEDERAL AND LOCAL REGULATIONS REGARDS THE DATABASE.  OKAY. JUST WANT ONE LAST QUESTION. CHAIR YOU KNOW I, I GET A LOT OF REQUESTS FOR TRAFFIC CAMERAS AND I KNOW IN NEW YORK CITY THEY HAVE THEM THEY MAY HAVE THEM OTHER PLACES BUT WE DON'T HAVE THEM HERE AS FAR AS I KNOW THERE'S NOTHING IN THE REPORT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, RECORDING PEOPLE'S LICENSE PLATE NUMBERS FOR GOING THROUGH RED LIGHTS OR RED LIGHT LIKE TICKET. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. UH, AND SO I GUESS IT'S A TWO PART QUESTION. NUMBER ONE THAT TECHNOLOGY DOES NOT EXIST IN BOSTON AND HAVE HAS PPD LOOKED INTO IT MADE ANY DECISIONS ABOUT WHETHER YOU KNOW IT MAKES THEY WANT TO HAVE IT HERE OR NOT? THE TECHNOLOGY DOES NOT CURRENTLY EXIST TO MY KNOWLEDGE IN USE BY THE DEPARTMENT I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY SIGNIFICANT DISCUSSION OF IMPLEMENTATION OF IT BUT I WOULD SAY THAT PROBABLY WOULD NOT BE INVOLVED IN THAT PARTICULAR DISCUSSION NECESSARILY. SO ANY ANYONE ELSE I BELIEVE THERE'S A STATE PREEMPTION FOR BOSTON AND THE FINDING BY MAIL SO TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT AND PARKING ENFORCEMENT VIA TECHNOLOGY IS LIMITED IN THE CITY BASED ON STATE STATUTE.  OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU, JEREMY I IF I HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION, I'D ASK FOR PERMISSION BUT THAT TO YOU NO,  NO, NO. I'M I LIKE TO HEAR FROM MY COLLEAGUES.  THANK YOU, COUNSELOR. COUNSELOR FITZGERALD, DO YOU HAVE ANY SECOND ROUND QUESTIONS? OKAY.  THANK YOU, COUNSELOR REID AND YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU.  I THINK I WAS LISTENING AND YOU ASKED A QUESTION BUT THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT EARLIER I THINK TO PICK UP WHERE I WAS WAS A QUESTION I HAD THIS MORNING ABOUT THE THE HOMELAND SECURITY GRANT PROGRAM THE YOU AS I PROGRAM I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET AT IS THAT OUR OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT HAS HAS A RESPONSIBILITY AND A LEGAL REQUIREMENT AS THE PASS THROUGH ENTITY TO ENSURE THAT THE MONEY THAT THE MONEY OF CERB RECIPIENTS IS ACCOUNTED FOR AND HOW IT'S BEING SPENT. IF IT'S A QUESTION OF LIKE TIMESHEETS FOR STAFF THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO MONITOR ALL THOSE THINGS IT SAYS ACCORDING TO SEE TO TWO C.F.R. 200.3 31DA PASS THROUGH ENTITY MUST AND OUR OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT DOES THE PASS THROUGH ENTITY MONITOR THE ACTIVITIES OF THE SOP RECIPIENT IS NECESSARY TO ENSURE THAT THE CIVIL WAR IS USED FOR AUTHORIZED PURPOSES AND COMPLIANCE WITH FEDERAL STATUTES, REGULATIONS AND THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE CIVIL WARRANT AND THE CIVIL ONE PERFORMANCE GOALS ARE ACHIEVED SO AND FOLLOW UP AND ENSURE THAT THE SOP RECIPIENT TAKES TIMELY AND APPROPRIATE ACTION AND ALL DEFICIENCIES PERTAINING TO THE FEDERAL WARRANT PROVIDED TO THE SOVEREIGN RECIPIENT FROM THE PASS THROUGH ENTITY DETECTED THROUGH AUDITS, ONSITE REVIEWS AND OTHER MEANS. SO I THINK WHAT WHAT WE ENDED UP THE REASON WHY WE HAD THIS THIS CHALLENGE LAST YEAR WITH THE GRANT THE HOMELAND SECURITY GRANT THE OH YOU ACE I GRANT WAS THAT OUR AUDIT DEPARTMENT SAID THE CITY'S AUDITOR HAD FLAGGED UP SIGNIFICANT DEFICIENCIES IN THE REPORTING AND GOING BACK IT'S A LONG PAPER TRAIL. IT GOES BACK TO 2000 IT AND RIGHT UP TO THE PRESENT DAY.  SO IN 2008 TO 2010 SOME RECIPIENT MONITORING WAS DEFICIENT AND 2011 THE ACCURACY OF THE FEDERAL EQUIPMENT INVENTORY RECORDS WERE INCOMPLETE AND THEN 2013 TO 2018 INTERNAL CONTROL AND COMPLIANCE OVER SOME RECIPIENT MONITORING WAS DEMONSTRATING A SIGNIFICANT DEFICIENCY. SO I THINK THAT'S THAT SKIN I'M GETTING INTO THE WEEDS A LITTLE BUT I DON'T WANT TO FIND MYSELF IN THE POSITION THE NEXT TIME THIS GROUND COMES BEFORE THIS BODY AND YOU'RE THE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT THESE DEFICIENCIES THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED BY OUR CITY AUDIT DEPARTMENT DEPARTMENT HAVE BEEN RECTIFIED. WE WE ARE A PASS THROUGH ENTITY . SO THE MONEY GOES OUT TO BROOKLINE AND OTHER MUNICIPALITIES.  BUT WHEN IT COMES BACK TO US,  YOU KNOW, WE ALSO SAW SOME RECIPIENT I THINK THE MONEY GOES THROUGH THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AND GOES TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.  SO ALL OF THESE THINGS ACCOUNTING FOR HOW THE MONEY IS SPENT AND HAVING ADEQUATE OVERSIGHT IS REALLY A CRITICALLY IMPORTANT PIECE.  IT'S A HUGE GRANT IS $13 BILLION AND YOU KNOW, WE WE HAVE THIS LEVEL OF SCRUTINY FOR OUR SCHOOL DEPARTMENT AT OUR AGE STRONG AND HOUSING THE MAYOR'S OFFICE OF HOUSING ALL THESE DEPARTMENTS THAT GET HUGE GRANTS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ARE REQUIRED TO UPHOLD THIS STANDARDS SO AND OVER MANY YEARS MANY, MANY YEARS THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT HAS BEEN DEFICIENT AND IT MAY BE THAT THEY JUST DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO TO MONITOR THESE GRANTS AND ENSURE COMPLIANCE BY OUR SUB RECIPIENTS. BUT THE ONUS IS ON ON US AS THE CITY OF BOSTON WE ARE WE HAVE TO MONITOR THOSE OF RECIPIENTS AND MAKE SURE THAT THE MONEY IS ACCOUNTED FOR AND HOW AND HOW IT'S BEEN SPENT.  SO AGAIN THAT BRINGS ME BACK TO MY PREVIOUS FOLD. BUT THIS PAST YEAR OR THE EARLIER THIS YEAR ABOUT CONCERNS ABOUT THAT WE'RE NOT JUST KEEPING GOOD WE DON'T HAVE GOOD ACCOUNTING OF HOW THE MONEY'S BEEN SPENT, THE KIND OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY ARE REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT WHEN IT COMES TO THESE ISSUES.  THANK YOU.  YEAH, DEFINITELY. THANK YOU, COUNSELOR. JUST TO ADDRESS THE PARTICULAR DEFICIENCIES THAT WERE MENTIONED IN YOUR COMMENT OR QUESTION THERE, I CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY THAT THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT HAS GREAT RECORD KEEPING IN TERMS OF ALL THE FINANCIAL ELEMENTS OF THE GRANT, THE PARTICULAR DEFICIENCIES IDENTIFIED BY THE AUDITING DEPARTMENT FOR TWO PARTICULAR FORMS ONE THE SET RECIPIENT PRE RISK ASSESSMENT QUESTIONNAIRE THE SPARK ARE Q AND THE CFA THE SCHEDULED EXPENDITURE OF FEDERAL AWARDS THOSE BOTH DEPEND ON THE RECIPIENTS SIGNING PAPERWORK FROM THEIR AUDITING DEPARTMENTS AND GETTING THEM BACK TO US. SO I ASSURE YOU THAT OUR DEPARTMENT AND AUDITING DEPARTMENT HAVE WORKED TOGETHER TO SEND THOSE OUT IN A TIMELY FASHION. THE DEFICIENCY COMES WHEN THOSE MUNICIPALITIES DON'T RETURN THOSE FORMS ADEQUATELY AND THEN WE GET INTO A HULLABALOO WHERE THOSE FORMS ARE REQUIRED ANNUALLY. BUT THE GRANT FUNDS EXTEND OVER A MULTIPLE YEAR PERIOD SO IT'S A LITTLE TRICKY TO TRY AND PROVIDE A CUTOFF DATE OF PROVIDING THAT PASS THROUGH FUNDING TO THEM. SO THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE'RE WORKING WITH THE PARTNER MUNICIPALITIES ON OF GETTING THAT FORM BACK FROM THEM SOONER. BUT I JUST WANT TO ASSURE EVERYONE IN THE ROOM THAT OEM IS FULLY ON TOP OF THE FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT OF THIS GRANT. SO RETURN TO THE CHAIR.  YOU KNOW IT'S REALLY INCUMBENT ON US AND TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR SOP RECIPIENTS ARE COMPLYING AND MAKING AND IF THEY DON'T COMPLY THEN YOU KNOW THEY'RE NOT THERE. THE ONUS IS ON US. IT'S REALLY ON US AS AS THE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RECIPIENTS COMPLY. DO YOU HAVE ANY LEVERAGE TO FORCE THEM TO COMPLY AND GET TIMELY TIMELY REPORTING ON THE ON THE BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 2000 WERE GOING ON ALMOST 20 YEARS AT THIS POINT IN TIME WHICH IS A REAL TIME JUST WE'LL TAKE IT THANK YOU. SO THE THE THE ONUS REALLY COMES THERE IS IAMS TO STATE IF WE CAN GET IF WE IF WE HAD MORE INVOLVEMENT FROM THE STATE IN THE PROCESS BECAUSE ANDREW ANDREW COULD TESTIFY TO THE FACT THAT WE CAN PUSH AS HARD AS WE CAN WE COMPLAIN TO THE STATE ABOUT PEOPLE NOT BEING IN COMPLIANCE AND THE ISSUE THEN IS THEN WE'RE LEFT HOLDING THE BAG BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID WE FACILITATE THE GRANT SO THE ISSUE IS IS WHEN PEOPLE ARE COMPLIANT WITH WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO WE PUSH BACK TO THE STATE WHICH IS OFTEN WE SAY HEY LISTEN WE NEED THE OTHER AGENCIES TO BE COMPLIANT WITH THESE ISSUES AND THEN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.  THEN THERE'S REALLY NO THERE'S REALLY NO DOCTOR. SO THE THE ISSUE THEN IT ALL LANDS AT OUR FEET AND THEN WE HAVE TO DO THE CLEANING UP AND THEN THIS IS HOW THE PROCESS WORKS. SO I WILL COMMIT TO YOU TODAY OBVIOUSLY YOU HEARD ANDREW ABOUT TRYING TO CLEAN UP SOME OF THE MESSY PIECES THAT WE THINK THAT WE CAN GET THE OTHER AGENCIES TO KIND OF COMMIT TO DOING A BETTER JOB WITH THEIR COMPLIANCE ISSUES. YEAH, I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT BECAUSE WE WERE ASKED TO TO PASS THIS GRANT EVERY YEAR AND YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST LIKE WE CAN'T JUST TURN A BLIND EYE TO THIS ANYMORE.  IT'S BEEN GOING ON TOO LONG. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.  THANK YOU, COUNSELOR. AT THIS TIME I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE'VE BEEN JOINED BY MY COLLEAGUES COUNSELOR ED FLYNN FROM DISTRICT TWO AND COUNSELOR SHARON DURKIN FROM DISTRICT EIGHT. I'M HERE TO CATCH YOU UP OVER IN THE SECOND ROUND OF WITH THIS PANEL. WE'RE GOING TO WHETHER OUT WE WANT TO MOVE ON TO THE SECOND PANEL BUT I WANT TO GIVE BOTH OF YOU AN OPPORTUNITY IF YOU IF YOU WILL, IF YOU WISH TO ASK THIS PANEL ANY FINAL QUESTIONS IF YOU WISH SO AS TO CROSSWORD PUZZLE OFTEN THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.  THANK YOU FOR COORDINATING THIS IMPORTANT DISCUSSION. THANK YOU TO THE ADMINISTRATION TEAM THAT'S HERE.  THANK YOU TO THE NEXT PANEL AS WELL. I APOLOGIZE FOR BEING LATE.  I HAD ANOTHER MEETING I HAD BUT I'LL WATCH THE VIDEO LATER THIS EVENING. THANK YOU, MR TRUMP. THANK YOU, COUNSELOR.  COUNSELOR THERE. GOOD. THANK YOU SO MUCH. AND I JOINED THE EARLIER HEARING FOR A BIT EARLIER TO TALK ABOUT THESE PARTICULAR ISSUES BUT I WANTED TO GO BACK. GREAT TO SEE YOU, ISAAC. HOW ARE YOU WANTED TO GO BACK INTO ONE OF THE LETTERS THAT ONE OF THE EARLIER PANELIST BROUGHT UP.  ONE OF THEIR ISSUES POTENTIALLY WAS THE ADDITION OF PAN AND ZOOM CAMERAS ASSOCIATED AND ADDING THAT LAYER TWO SHOTSPOTTER DOES THE BPD HAVE ANY PLANS TO ADD CAMERA FOOTAGE OR COORDINATE CAMERAS ASSOCIATED WITH SHOTSPOTTER IN THE FUTURE? SO SO CERTAINLY WE WOULD BE ADDRESS THAT CAMERA COVERAGE THAT KIND OF UNRELATED TO SHOTSPOTTER THOUGH I WOULD SAY SO IT WOULDN'T BE RELATED TO THEM HEARING LIKE NOISE AND THEN THE AND THEN IT PANNING THE VIDEO PANNING TO THE AREA TO COMPLETELY COMPLETELY SEPARATE NETWORKS.  SHOTSPOTTER IS NOT INTEGRATED WITH THE CAMERA NETWORK.  THE CAMERAS ARE NOT THE AUDIO AUDIO SENSORS FOR SHOTSPOTTER ARE COMPLETELY DISTINCT FROM THE CAMERAS. THE CAMERAS DO NOT RECORD AUDIO WHATSOEVER.  OKAY. AND I DID WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT AUDIO I DID ASK OF THE SECOND PANEL OF THE LAST HEARING BUT JUST CURIOUS HOW BPD USES AUDIO STEP SNIPPETS FROM SHOTSPOTTER. DOES PEOPLE USE THOSE AND IF ONCE THOSE AUDIO SNIPPETS ARE RECORDED WHERE DOES THAT DATA AND INFORMATION GO? CERTAINLY SO WHEN A GUNSHOT IS DETECTED THEY'RE ALERT. AN ALERT IS ISSUED IN A FEW DIFFERENT FORMATS. IT COMES VIA EMAIL. ALSO THERE'S A PHONE APP AND YOU CAN BE LOGGED INTO TO A COMPUTER APPLICATION WHERE YOU WILL GET ALERTED THE OFFICER OR THE USER CAN THAT LISTEN TO THAT AUDIO TO TRY TO GET THEIR OWN CONTEXT FRANKLY MAKE THEIR OWN ASSESSMENT AS WELL AS THESE OFFICERS HAVE HEARD UNFORTUNATELY MANY GUNSHOTS OVER THEIR CAREERS KIND OF MAKE THEIR OWN ASSESSMENT. THEY'RE ALSO PROVIDED WITH THE MAPPING LOCATION WHERE THAT INCIDENT IS AND THEN THAT CAN KIND OF , YOU KNOW, HELP WITH THE INITIAL RESPONSE. AND THEN I WOULD SAY CERTAINLY INVESTIGATIVE LEIGH, THEY ARE USED, YOU KNOW, TO GET A PRECISE TIME ON THE INCIDENT TO THEY KIND OF MATCH THAT UP WITH CAMERA FOOTAGE OR YOU KNOW,  OTHER SENSOR DATA THAT MIGHT BE USEFUL IN THE INVESTIGATIVE PROCESS, YOU KNOW, MOVING FORWARD. AND I THINK MY INITIAL UNDERSTANDING OF SOUND THINKING AND SHOTSPOTTER WAS INCORRECT LIKE I THOUGHT THAT SOMEHOW THE AUDIO THAT WAS BEING RECORDED WAS BEING MANAGED BY A.I. BUT TO FIND OUT THAT THERE IS LIKE SORT OF A SECOND PERSON WHO'S LIKE LISTENING TO THAT AND CONFIRMING THAT IT'S DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE AI IS NOT THERE LIKE IN TERMS OF THE TECHNOLOGY. SO I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO DETAILED INTO THE INTO THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF THE TECHNOLOGY. THAT'S NOT MY EXPERTISE BUT MY GENERAL UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE THE COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY DOES KIND OF MAKE AN INITIAL ASSESSMENT RIGHT AS TO THAT IMPULSIVE SOUND. ALL OF THOSE ARE THEN REVIEWED BY A HUMAN SHOTSPOTTER EMPLOYEE. ONE OF THEIR ANALYSTS AND THEN THAT PERSON IS THE PERSON WHO'S MAKING THE FILE DECISION.  THIS ALL HAPPENS WITHIN ABOUT 30 SECONDS SO WE'RE NOT LOSING TOO MUCH TIME ON THAT AND THAT PERSON IS THAT FINAL SORT OF DETERMINANT OF WHETHER AN ALERT GETS ISSUED TO THE DEPARTMENT OR NOT TO SOUND THINKING OR SHOTSPOTTER HAVE ANY ALTERNATIVE SORT OF LIKE COMPETITORS THAT ARE WORKING WITHIN THE SPACE THAT I JUST FEEL LIKE FROM WHAT YOU JUST SAID IT WAS INTERESTING LIKE JUST THE IDEA THAT LIKE A HUMAN WOULD NEED TO CONFIRM SOMETHING THAT LIKE I WAS HEARING JUST TO ME AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S INACCURATE BUT AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S NOT USEFUL BUT IT'S JUST INTERESTING TO ME THAT I WOULD JUST EXPECT THE TECHNOLOGY TO BE FURTHER ALONG THAN IT IS BASED ON LIKE WHAT I'M READING AND WHAT I'M HEARING. YEAH, I CAN'T REALLY COMMENT ON ANY COMPETITORS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I'M NOT REALLY AN EXPERT IN THAT FOR SURE. OKAY. AND JUST A LITTLE BIT ON LIKE THE DATA COLLECTION AND USE I'M JUST OF LIKE THE DATA THAT IS COLLECTED AND HOW THAT IS DISSEMINATED AND USED WITHIN BPD AND WITHIN THE BRICK. JUST CURIOUS OBVIOUSLY LIKE YOU HAVE YOUR OWN SORRY I'M BLANKING ON THE WORD YOUR OWN DATABASE OR INFRASTRUCTURE WITHIN THE BRICK THAT HOLDS SOME OF THIS INFORMATION. WHAT ARE THEIR KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM THE INFORMATION THAT IS GATHERED THAT IS HELPFUL TO PEOPLE FOR SORT OF I FEEL LIKE WE HEARD FROM A SECOND PANEL OF OUR LAST HEARING THAT THIS INFORMATION DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A ROLE IN STOPPING CRIME AND THAT WAS SORT OF THE ASSERTION THAT WAS MADE AT THE LAST PANEL LIKE HOW CAN THAT BE REFUTED? SO I WOULD JUST SAY FROM THE DATA PERSPECTIVE SO OUR DATA OUT OF THE BRICK IS HOUSED WITH THE DEPARTMENT'S DATA RESOURCES SO WE USE THE BUREAU OF ADMINISTRATION TECHNOLOGY AS DATA CENTER AND PROVIDES US WITH SERVER SPACE FROM A TECHNOLOGY PERSPECTIVE. SO IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S A SEPARATE, YOU KNOW, DATA REPOSITORY THAT JUST THE BRICK IS MAINTAINING THAT'S BPD DATA AS THE BRICK IS YOU KNOW, A PART OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WE MAINTAIN SEVERAL DATA SOURCES THAT ARE ANALYTICALLY DERIVED. THOSE ARE OUR SHOOTINGS SHOTS FIRED AND LIKE THE HOMICIDE DATA SET THAT YOU CAN FIND PUBLICLY AVAILABLE, WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE A BROADER SET OF DATA THAT WE YOU KNOW, MADE THAT KIND OF EXPANDS ON THOSE THINGS INTERNALLY IN TERMS OF , YOU KNOW, PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE INFORMATION THAT'S RELATED TO THAT TO HELP INVESTIGATIVE PURPOSES. BUT AS I SAID EARLIER, WE CERTAINLY USE ALL THESE DATA SOURCES TO INFORM ALL OF OUR CUSTOMERS.  SO THAT'S FROM THE PATROL OFFICER TO THE COMMISSIONER TO COMMUNITY PARTNERS TO THE MAYOR'S OFFICE, ISAAC'S OFFICE TO DRIVE YOU KNOW, DEPLOYMENT DECISIONS ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS LARGER STRATEGIC INITIATIVES AND WE'RE CONSTANTLY KIND OF TRYING TO TWEAK OUR DATA PORTFOLIO WHAT THE ANALYSTS ARE MAINTAINING, WHAT WE'RE RECEIVING FROM OTHER SOURCES TO MAKE SURE WE'RE MEETING THOSE NEEDS FOR SURE. AND I THINK IN TERMS OF THE DATA AND INTERESTINGLY FOR ME LIKE THE AUDIO SNIPPETS LIKE FOR ME JUST SEEM JUST MAINTAINING THOSE SEEMS KIND OF UNHELPFUL OR JUST NOT EXACTLY RELATED TO LIKE THE PURPOSE OF LIKE IF THERE WERE LIKE STRAY CONVERSATIONS THAT WERE CAUGHT BY CERTAIN LIKE AUDIO I JUST THINK MY INITIAL UNDERSTANDING OF SHOTSPOTTER AND SOUND THINKING WAS THAT WAS THAT LIKE A.I. WAS BEING USED AND SOMEHOW THAT LIKE MADE IT A LITTLE SAFER.  AND I THINK THAT SECOND PANEL FOR ME REALLY LIKE ILLUSTRATED LIKE IF THIS INFORMATION IS BEING LIKE SAVED LIKE WE DO HAVE A REAL ROLE TO PLAY IN MAKING SURE THAT THAT THERE ARE SOME SAFETY AND LIKE HOW THAT INFORMATION BECAUSE IF THERE WERE STRAY CONVERSATIONS THAT WE'RE CAUGHT BY BY THIS TECHNOLOGY JUST ENSURING THAT LIKE CIVIL LIBERTIES ARE AT THE FOREFRONT OF THE CONVERSATION, I'M NOT AT ALL SUGGESTING THAT THIS TECHNOLOGY ISN'T USEFUL BUT THE IDEA THAT THE IDEA THAT I MEAN THAT WE DO HAVE WIRETAPPING LAWS AND I CAN'T RECORD YOU WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE SO THE IDEA THAT LIKE THERE ARE MICROPHONES ALL OVER OUR CITY THAT MAYBE PICKING UP STRAY CONVERSATIONS THAT PEOPLE WOULDN'T WANT TO BE AND I JUST I REALLY JUST THAT SNAP SOUND SNIPPET OF LIKE HOW LONG ARE THESE SORT OF RECORDINGS AND JUST CURIOUS LIKE AND I DON'T WANT TO THAT JUST SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF INFORMATION IF IT'S THERE'S A LOT OF AUDIO BEING RECORDED THAT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT AND YOU KNOW I DON'T I'M NOT TRYING TO GO INTO LIKE CONSPIRACY THEORY OR ANYTHING BUT JUST THE IDEA THAT LIKE ALL OF THAT WOULD BE LIKE MAINTAINED IN THE DATABASE THAT JUST TRYING TO HOW HOW DO THINGS GET PASSED OUT AND LIKE WHAT GETS MAINTAINED AND WHAT GETS THROWN AWAY SO SO A FEW THINGS THAT I WOULD CERTAINLY YOU KNOW HAVE THE CHAIR ASK SOME ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OF MR. CHATHAM THAT WAS HERE EARLIER HE CAN GET MORE INTO THE TECHNICAL DETAILS FROM SOUND THINKING'S PERSPECTIVE BUT I WOULD SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS TO TO THAT POINT.  YOU KNOW, THERE ARE DIFFERENT RETENTION PERIODS FOR WHEN THINGS ARE THAT THIS AUDIO SNIPPET IS RELATED TO A CONFIRMED GUNSHOT VERSUS YOU KNOW, A FIREWORK OR SOME OTHER SOUND, A LOUD BANG OF A DUMP TRUCK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.  AND THOSE ARE KIND OF TWO DIFFERENT DATA RETENTION PERIODS. THERE'S ALSO DIFFERENT PEOPLE WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT THAT HAVE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF ACCESS TO THAT DATA. SO A WIDER SET OF DEPARTMENT USERS HAVE ACCESS TO YOU KNOW, THE FULL YOU KNOW, ARE THINGS THAT ARE PROBABLE OR CONFIRMED GUNSHOTS AND THEN A SMALLER SET HAVE ACCESS TO YOU KNOW, A WIDER SET OF DATA. I WILL SAY THAT I KNOW THAT THE AUDIO IS DELETED AFTER 24 HOURS FROM EVERY SENSOR SO THERE'S NOT SORT OF LIKE A LONG TERM REPOSITORY THAT YOU CAN GO TO AND WE DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY FROM THE DEPARTMENT PERSPECTIVE TO JUST LISTEN IN ON ANY SENSOR OR EVEN QUERY THAT WHEN THERE'S NOT AN IMPULSIVE SOUND THAT IS HEARD FROM THAT SENSOR.  THANK YOU. I DO THINK I HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS THAT I'D LIKE TO FOLLOW UP WITH THE CHAIR ABOUT BUT I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU BEING HERE.  THANK YOU, COUNSELOR. I THINK COUNCILOR ALREADY HAS ONE FINAL QUESTION AND IF YOU ASK YEAH.  YES, SIR. I JUST HAD A ONE AND A HALF QUESTIONS ABOUT SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS.  UM, YOU KNOW IN THE ACLU'S WRITTEN TESTIMONY THEY SAY THAT THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT SAYS THAT THE CAMERA SYSTEM CAPTURES SOUND BUT THE VPD SAYS IT DOESN'T. WHAT'S THE WHAT'S WHAT'S THE ANSWER?  I, I WOULD DEFER TO TO OWEN BUT I BELIEVE THAT WAS A SLIGHT ERROR ON THEIR PART. YES, I CAN CONFIRM THAT. OKAY. SO IT DOES NOT CAPTURE IT DOES AND IT JUST AND I MY UNDERSTANDING IS YOU HAVEN'T DISCLOSED WHERE THE CAMERAS ARE. CAN WE BE GIVEN SOME SENSE OF IT? IS IT THE SAME SORT OF IS IT EQUITABLY DISTRIBUTED ACROSS THE CITY? ARE WE LOOKING AT THE SAME KIND OF MAP AS THE SHOTSPOTTER? SO IN THE SUPPLEMENTAL REPORT YESTERDAY WE PROVIDED A BREAKDOWN OF THE CAMERAS BY POLICE DISTRICT WITH KIND OF A GENERAL NEIGHBORHOOD BOUNDARIES THAT EACH DISTRICT ADHERES TO.  YOU CAN SEE THOSE TOTALS IN THE REPORT THAT CAME OVER YESTERDAY. OKAY.  THANK THANK YOU. THANK YOU, CHAIR.  GREAT. THANK YOU TOO. AGAIN TO ALL OF OUR PANELISTS. DO YOU HAVE A FINAL QUESTION FOR THIS FELLOW? YES. YEAH, PLEASE. WE HAVE FIVE SORRY . AND THIS IS CHAIR ISAAC PABLO, YOU MAY HAVE SEEN IN THE NEWS I'M A HUGE FAN OF YOUR WORK. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL THAT YOU DO FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND OUR COMMUNITIES. I JUST I THINK WHEN WE THINK ABOUT LIKE CIVIL LIBERTIES AND HOW WE APPROACH A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS WITH COMMUNITIES OF COLOR ESPECIALLY AND LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES IN OUR CITY AROUND CRIME AND VIOLENCE AND THINGS THAT WE DON'T LOVE TO TALK ABOUT.  BUT IT'S SO NECESSARY AS A CITY COUNCILOR TO THINK ABOUT LIKE HOW TRAUMA IMPACTS OUR COMMUNITIES AND I THINK I LOVE ALL THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE IN OUR CITY AND WE ARE A VERY SAFE CITY AND I THINK WE AND YOU KNOW THERE'S OBVIOUSLY INSTANCES WHERE THAT ARE JUST TRAGIC AND WE HEAR ABOUT THEM EVERY DAY OF THINGS THAT ARE SORT OF UNBELIEVABLE. BUT ON YOU KNOW, ON A SCALE LIKE WE ARE DOING BETTER THAN A LOT OF OUR CITIES LIKE WHAT TOOLS DO WE NEED IN YOUR OPINION AND AND HOW HAVE COMMUNITIES REACTED TO SOME OF THESE TOOLS BEING UTILIZED TO TO PROTECT OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND BUT AND ALSO BUT HOW CAN WE ALSO AND WHAT WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS AROUND SORT OF HOW HOW WE DON'T OVERREACH AND DON'T SORT OF OVER SURVEIL? SURE.  I THINK IN RESPONSE TO CRIME AND VIOLENCE DEFINITELY. AND THANK YOU THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION COUNCIL SO JUST TO ANSWER YOUR LAST QUESTION, I THINK AGAIN I BRIEFLY ALLUDED TO IT EARLIER I THINK ESPECIALLY POST THE GEORGE FLOYD INCIDENT TRAGEDY 2020 RESIDENTS BROADLY ACROSS THE CITY ARE MORE AWARE OF AND MORE CRITICAL OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND ARE QUESTIONING WHAT THE ROLE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SPECIFICALLY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS WITHIN OUR SOCIETY. AND I THINK THAT THAT IS A JUSTIFIABLE QUESTION. I AM I'M NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORIST TO WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER BUT I DO LIKE TO ASK QUESTIONS IN TERMS OF THE SPECIFIC TECHNOLOGY THAT I DO BELIEVE THAT WE NEED. I STRUGGLE AND I BELIEVE RYAN ALLUDED TO IT EARLIER I STRUGGLE WITH SILOING ONE PIECE OR PIECES OF TECHNOLOGY WHEN THIS IS A FUNCTION OF THE SYSTEM AND EVERY SINGLE PIECE HAS A ROLE TO PLAY.  AND SO I THINK WHAT OFTENTIMES HAPPENS IS THAT QUESTIONS ARE POSED TO SPECIFICALLY LIKE TO SET OUT THE ROLE OF SHOTSPOTTER WHEN I THINK SHOTSPOTTER PLAYS A ROLE WITHIN A MUCH MORE BROAD SYSTEM AND THAT SYSTEM IS HOW WE'VE GOTTEN TO BE THE SAFEST MAJOR CITY IN THE COUNTRY. AND SO I THINK THAT IF WE START TO STRIP AWAY INDIVIDUAL PIECES THAT MAKE UP THAT SYSTEM, YOU'LL START TO SEE A DETERIORATION OF THE SYSTEM THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTIONS. I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT AND I HAVE SEEN THIS TECHNOLOGY IN ACTION BUT I DO THINK IT'S ALL ABOUT BALANCE AND AS A CITY TO BE AND I SAID THIS EARLIER BUT GOOD GOVERNMENT MAKES PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY AREN'T, YOU KNOW, BEING SURVEILLED.  GOOD GOVERNMENT DOESN'T SURVEIL WHEN NECESSARY.  SO FIGURING OUT HOW WE CAN BALANCE POTENTIALLY TECHNOLOGY THAT'S NEEDED BUT BUT BUT HOW WE CAN PUT SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE OUR CIVIL LIBERTIES ARE NOT INFRINGED UPON AND THEN ALSO I MEAN JUST THE IDEA OF AND I UNDERSTAND LIKE I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AS WE HAVE AN ENTIRE SYSTEM BUT IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO NOT AND I AND I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT ABOUT LIKE LET'S NOT TAKE AWAY SOME THINGS THAT ADD TO THIS FUNCTIONAL SYSTEM BUT I DO THINK IT'S OUR JOB TO ASK THE QUESTIONS. IT'S OUR JOB TO COME TO THE TABLE AND YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THE BRIC WASN'T APPEARING AT HEARINGS LIKE THESE ARE APPEARING JUST WHEN THEY NEEDED TO RECEIVE ADDITIONAL FUNDING FOR A GRANT LIKE WE NEED MORE AND MORE CONVERSATION AND HEARING AND CONVERSATION AND HEARING AND CONVERSATION AND HEARING BECAUSE THAT'S OUR JOB. SO I REALLY DO APPRECIATE EVERYONE BEING HERE AND TO LIVE IN A SOCIETY WHERE EVERYONE FEELS SAFE THEY THEY ALSO NEED TO FEEL LIKE THE GOVERNMENT AND THE POLICE AREN'T OUT TO GET THEM. THEY'RE OUT TO BE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THEM. AND THAT'S THE BOSTON WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD AND IT'S OUR ROLE AS THE CITY COUNCIL TO BE PART OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS. SO I APPRECIATE YOU ALL BEING TODAY BECAUSE WE'RE COUNCIL AND COUNCILOR FLYNN, I KNOW YOU HAD A COUPLE A COUPLE OF YEAH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.  I HAD ONE OR TWO QUESTIONS I GUESS FOR PABLO. YOU AND I WORKED AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS SUMMER ON PROVIDING SOME COMMUNITY SPACE IN MARYANN MCCORMACK PUBLIC HOUSING DEVELOPMENT WHICH I REPRESENT MOSTLY KIDS OF COLOR AND THAT IN THAT DEVELOPMENT WE GOT THE SPACE FOR THE COMMUNITY AND LITERALLY A WEEK LATER SHOTS WERE FIRED RIGHT NEAR THE VAN WHERE THE KIDS WERE AT AND UNFORTUNATELY THIS NONPROFIT THAT WE WERE ABLE TO GET THE SPACE FROM LEFT AS YOU KNOW SO WE IN THE INTEREST OF SAFETY IN THE NONPROFIT DECIDED TO MOVE THE SOCIAL SERVICES FOR THE FOR THE YOUTH OF THE MURIEL MCCORMICK DEVELOPMENT MOVE IT FROM THE DEVELOPMENT TO A SAFER AREA IN SOUTH BOSTON. I'M NOT SAYING I AGREE WITH THAT OR DISAGREE WITH IT BUT THAT'S NOT SUCCESS WHEN WE'RE TAKING SOCIAL SERVICES WERE TAKEN YOUTH PROGRAMS OUT OF PUBLIC HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS AND PUTTING THEM INTO A SAFER AREA. SO I DO WANT TO PUSH BACK ON THE NOTION THAT WE ARE THE SAFEST CITY IN AMERICA. I CAN'T TELL RESIDENTS IN PUBLIC HOUSING WITH THE SAFEST CITY IN AMERICA AND THEN OH BY THE WAY, WE'RE MOVING THIS COMMUNITY PROGRAM OUT OF THE PUBLIC HOUSING DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE THE YOUTH ARE NOT SAFE THERE. SO I'M DISAPPOINTED IN SOME OF THE NARRATIVE THAT I'M HEARING BUT MORE DISAPPOINTING THAT WE HAVE TO MOVE A PROGRAM OUT OF PUBLIC HOUSING HELPING KIDS OF COLOR IN PUBLIC HOUSING WHICH I REPRESENT THAT'S NOT PROGRESS TO ME AND I'M NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT.  ANY RESPONSE?  YEAH, I'M NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT EITHER. I HAVE A MEETING COMING UP WITH THE PARTICULAR NONPROFIT THAT WE YOU AND I WORKED TO HELP SECURE THE SPACE FOR KIND OF YOUR TESTIMONY SPEAKS TO WHY MY PRIORITY HAS BEEN TO BE IN AREAS WHETHER IT'S MARY ELLEN MCCORMICK OR WEST BROADWAY OR THE OTHER PUBLIC HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS ACROSS THE CITY. I WILL SAY THAT FOR RESIDENTS AND IT'S BEEN STATED EARLIER I BELIEVE AT THE LAST PANEL BUT FOR RESIDENTS THAT RESIDE IN COMMUNITIES THAT ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED BY THE FIREARM VIOLENCE, THEY DO NOT FEEL THE SAFETY THAT PERHAPS OTHER RESIDENTS AND CONSTITUENTS DO FEEL. BUT THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT WORK IS NOT GOING TO CONTINUE. WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING. BUT IT IS SAD BUT YOU'RE ALLUDING TO AND THAT'S WHY I DO THE WORK THAT I DO TO PREVENT THINGS LIKE THAT FROM HAPPENING MORE OFTEN. BUT THE PROBLEM WAS IS IT DID HAPPEN AND I HAD A SOCIAL SERVICE IN MY PUBLIC HOUSING DEVELOPMENT THAT HAD TO LEAVE BECAUSE THEY FELT THAT THE YOUTH WERE NOT SAFE THERE AND THAT'S DISAPPOINTING TO ME . I CAN'T HAVE THAT HAPPENING IN MY IT DID HAPPEN. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TO FIX IT?  WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO THIS YOUTH IN THAT COMMUNITY NOW THAT ARE NOT GETTING SERVICES SPORTS, COMPUTERS, AFTERSCHOOL HOMEWORK, ACADEMIC JOBS, ACADEMIC MOSTLY KIDS OF COLOR SO THE PROGRAM GOES UP TO A MORE AFFLUENT AREA IS MY POINT. BUT THE THE YOUTH I BELIEVE FROM THAT DEVELOPMENT DON'T NECESSARILY GO TO THAT SOCIAL SERVICE PROVIDER AND THEY DO EXCEPTIONAL WORK. RIGHT. BUT HOW DO WE MAKE UP THAT SERVICE THAT'S LOST FOR THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT HAD A WONDERFUL PROGRAM GOING FOR FOR A WEEK AND NOW IT'S GONE WHAT CAN WE DO TO THEM?  WHAT CAN WE DO FOR THEM GOING FORWARD OTHER THAN YOU KNOW,  SPEECHES, PRESS CONFERENCES, HEARINGS?  I WANT I WANT SOCIAL SERVICES IN MY DISTRICT AND THAT'S WHAT I WANT.  AND ARE WE ABLE TO DO THAT?  YEAH, AND WE WE CURRENTLY ARE. SO WE'RE PARTNERING WITH IN ADDITION TO THE SOUTH BOSTON NEIGHBORHOOD HOUSE SO BOSTON AND ACTUALLY ON THOSE NONPROFIT ENTITIES THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY FOCUSED ON THE HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS AND NOT THE MORE AFFLUENT AREAS WE'VE ALREADY BEEN ABLE TO ALLOCATE RESOURCES TO THOSE ENTITIES BUT WE WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO AS THE SUMMER PROGRESSES AND INTO THE FALL.  THE YEAR ROUND IS A PRIORITY BECAUSE THESE MICRO LOCATIONS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER IT'S WEST BROADWAY OR MARY ELLEN MCCORMACK AND I'D ALSO I'M NOT PUSHING BACK ON ANYTHING THAT YOU SAID BUT IT'S ALSO NOT THE ENTIRE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT. THE ENTIRE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT IS IMPACTED BUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE THE VIOLENCE IS OCCURRING, IT'S NOT THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT. SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IN TERMS OF IMMEDIATE RESPONSE TO FIREARM VIOLENCE WHICH IS WHY THE SHOTSPOTTER TECHNOLOGY IS SO IMPORTANT, WE'RE PINPOINTING PRECISION THE AREAS WHERE THE VIOLENCE IS OCCURRING. BUT THEN IN TERMS OF OUR COMMUNITY RESPONSE TO THE DEVELOPMENT AS A WHOLE, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALLOCATING THAT ARE TRAUMA INFORMED AND FOCUSED ON HEALING AND THAT ARE CULTURALLY COMPETENT TO THE AREA. YEAH, OKAY. I JUST WANTED ON THE RECORD WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BOSTON BEING THE SAFEST CITY MAYBE IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THE CITY BUT IN MARY ELLEN MCCORMACK WEST BROADWAY DEVELOPMENT IT DOESN'T FEEL THAT WAY IN MY OBLIGATION IS TO THOSE RESIDENTS TO ENSURE THAT THEY HAVE THE NECESSARY SERVICES THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S WHAT YOU BRING.  I ALSO ADVOCATE FOR PUBLIC SAFETY SERVICES POLICE PRESENCE IN THE AREA BUT I NEED SOCIAL SERVICES IN THERE IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS AND I'M DISAPPOINTING WHEN WHEN SOCIAL SERVICES HAVE TO LEAVE A PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S NOT SAFE AND I JUST CAN'T ACCEPT THE NOTION WHEN PEOPLE SAY AS PEOPLE SAY THAT BOSTON A SAFER CITY WE CAN'T I CAN'T SAY THAT TO MY CONSTITUENTS IN MARY ELLEN MCCORMACK POINT TAKEN. I THINK BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHY YOU AND I WORK TOGETHER PRIOR TO THE SUMMER TO BRING THE RESOURCES THERE. NOW I'M SAD THAT THEY LEFT BUT THEY WEREN'T THERE TO START. YOU AND I WORKED TOGETHER TO BRING THEM AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO KEEP. YEAH, I JUST I JUST HOPE PEOPLE DON'T FORGET ABOUT MY CONSTITUENTS.  I'M ADVOCATING FOR SERVICES. I'M ADVOCATING FOR PROGRAMS, I'M ADVOCATING FOR POLICE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD I MEAN ADVOCATING FOR THIS TECHNOLOGY AND OTHERS MAY NOT WANT IT I DON'T KNOW BUT I WANT IT AND I HOPE PEOPLE WILL WORK WITH ME TO GET THAT BECAUSE I'M STARTING TO GET FRUSTRATED THAT MY CONSTITUENTS ARE NOT GETTING THEIR FAIR SHARE OF BASIC CITY SERVICES. UNDERSTOOD. AND I APPRECIATE YOU CALABRO NARRATING UP TO LEADING UP TO THE SUMMER ON ALL THE MEETINGS THAT WE HAD IN SOUTH BOSTON I YOU SHOWING UP AND OFFERING YOUR TESTIMONY THERE AS WELL. THANK YOU SIR SIR THANK YOU, MR CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU COUNCILOR . AND I JUST WANT TO THANK AGAIN OUR FIRST PANELISTS FOR BEING HERE, BEING PRESIDENT, ANSWERING ALL OF OUR QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME. WE WILL NOW MOVE TO OUR SECOND PANEL. I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR BEING HERE AND LOOKING FORWARD TO THE FUTURE RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE ALL HAVE.  THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR TAKING PANEL. WE HAVE DIRECTOR KADE CROCKFORD AND I'M CHAIR ALEX DIRECTOR CROCKFORD AND CHAIR MATTHEWS. YOU CAN PLEASE BE SEATED AT THE TABLE. THANK YOU.  I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE OUR TWO EXPERTS ON CIVIL LIBERTIES AGAIN AS I DID THIS MORNING. FOR THE RECORD, I WANT TO RECOGNIZE AS CHAIR THAT THESE PANELISTS TAKE AN EVIDENCE BASED APPROACH TO THEIR WORK AND THEY ARE VERY IMPORTANTLY HERE TO HELP ASSESS THE CIVIL LIBERTIES CONCERNS RELATED TO SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES AND HELP US WEIGH THOSE CONCERNS AGAINST THE POTENTIAL BENEFIT OF THE TECHNOLOGY. THAT INTENTION IS CRITICAL PART OF THE CITY OF BOSTON'S LAWS AS CODIFIED IN THE SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCE.  AND BOTH OF THESE PANELISTS HAVE BEEN INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN THE DEVELOPMENT PASSAGE AND IMPLEMENTATION OF THAT ORDINANCE. I'M VERY GRATEFUL TO HAVE THEM BOTH HERE TODAY.  US.  YOU KNOW, DR. I KNOW HAD TO HAD A HEART STOP AT 430 SO HE WILL NOT BE JOINING US FOR THE SECOND PANEL. AND WITH THAT I'D LIKE TO ASK KAY CRAWFORD TO PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF AGAIN AND SHOW YOUR OPENING REMARKS. THANKS. HI EVERYONE.  COUNSELORS, COUNSELOR FLYNN, APPRECIATE YOU GUYS STAYING FOR SUCH A LONG DAY. MY NAME IS KADE.  I RUN THE TECHNOLOGY FOR LIBERTY PROGRAM AT THE ACLU OF MASSACHUSETTS.  REALLY APPRECIATIVE AGAIN OF ALL THE WORK THAT YOU AND YOUR STAFF HAVE PUT INTO THIS IMPLEMENTATION PROCESS. I ALSO IT LOOKS LIKE EVERYBODY FROM BPD LEGAL JUST LEFT BUT I WANTED TO THANK THEM TOO BECAUSE THEY DID A LOT OF WORK ON THIS NOT JUST THE FOLKS AT BP LEGAL BUT PEOPLE INVOLVED IN OTHER AREAS AT BPD THE DO IT STAFF STAFF ISAAC YOWELL AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ADMINISTRATION WHO WORKED REALLY HARD TO GET THESE REPORTS. I KNOW IT WAS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK. I KNOW IT WAS PROBABLY FRUSTRATING BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE OTHER THINGS TO DO BUT THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNOW, I EXTEND MY APPRECIATION ON BEHALF OF THE ACLU FOR ALL OF THAT WORK.  IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE FOR THE FIRST TIME MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC IN BOSTON AND YOU THE BOSTON CITY COUNCIL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN ABOUT HOW SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY IS ACTUALLY USED IN OUR COMMUNITIES. THIS IS THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. WE'VE HEARD ANECDOTES YOU KNOW, AS I SAID IN THE PREVIOUS HEARING, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THEIR PERCEPTION OF THE ROLE THAT SURVEILLANCE PLAYS IN INVESTIGATIONS COMES LARGELY FROM TELEVISION PROGRAMS LIKE CSI AND LAW AND ORDER AND DOESN'T REALLY BEAR VERY MUCH RELATION TO THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW THESE TECHNOLOGIES ARE USED IN THE REAL WORLD IN OUR COMMUNITIES. SO I COULD TALK ENDLESSLY ABOUT THIS STUFF, YOU KNOW, GIVE ME A MICROPHONE AND I COULD GO ON ALL DAY. I'M NOT GOING TO DO THAT. I'M GOING TO FOCUS ON A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT AREAS OF THESE REPORTS. I'M GOING TO START WITH THE SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS SO AGAIN, WE REALLY APPRECIATE THE DEPARTMENT SENDING THIS VIDEO REQUEST DATA. THIS IS OF COURSE A DOCUMENTATION OF EACH TIME SOMEONE REQUESTED VIDEO FOOTAGE FROM THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT'S EXTENSIVE SURVEILLANCE CAMERA NETWORK.  AND THEN THE REASON WHY THAT FOOTAGE WAS REQUESTED OH I SEE PPD LEGAL IS NOW IN THE HOUSE. I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU GUYS FOR ALL THE WORK THAT YOU DID ON THIS BECAUSE I KNOW IT WAS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK. OKAY. SO ON THE SURVEILLANCE CAMERA REQUEST DATA AGAIN THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THE PUBLIC AND THE COUNCIL HAVE HAD ACCESS TO A COMPREHENSIVE ACCOUNTING OF HOW OFTEN AND FOR WHAT REASONS.  VIDEO SURVEILLANCE DATA WAS REQUESTED FOR INVESTIGATIONS AND THE RESULTS WERE HONESTLY QUITE SURPRISING TO ME . I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ALL HAD THIS REACTION TO READING THROUGH THE REPORT BUT I WAS SURPRISED FOR EXAMPLE TO FIND THAT THE NUMBER ONE REASON THAT SURVEILLANCE DATA WAS REQUESTED WAS TO INVESTIGATE TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS. THAT WAS SURPRISING TO ME . YOU KNOW, I PROBABLY LIKE A LOT OF OTHER BOSTONIANS ASSUMED THAT THESE CAMERAS WERE MOSTLY USED TO INVESTIGATE VIOLENT CRIMES. TURNS OUT THE NUMBER ONE REASON THAT CAMERA FOOTAGE WAS REQUESTED WAS TO INVESTIGATE CAR AND CAR CAR AND BIKE OR CAR AND PEDESTRIAN OR MOTOR VEHICLE ACCIDENTS. THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR REASONS THAT I'M GOING TO GET INTO THIS POINT STUCK TO ME PARTICULARLY BECAUSE OF THE UNEVEN GEOGRAPHIC DISTRIBUTION OF CAMERAS IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. AS I SAID IN A LETTER TO THE MAYOR THAT I SEE YOU BOTH ON LAST WEEK IN 2020, CITY COUNCILOR THEN CITY COUNCILOR RICARDO ARROYO ASKED THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT TO TELL HIM HOW MANY CAMERAS THERE WERE IN EACH NEIGHBORHOOD IN THE CITY AND BACK THEN THE RESULTS WERE ACTUALLY FAIRLY ASTONISHING. I MEAN AS I SAID EARLIER TODAY ,I LIVE IN THE DUDLEY TRIANGLE IN AN AREA THAT IS HEAVILY SURVEILLED BY BOTH SHOTSPOTTER AND BOSTON POLICE SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS. THEY'RE LITERALLY EVERYWHERE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. I WAS REALLY SURPRISED 2020 TO FIND THAT THERE WERE AT THAT TIME ZERO CAMERAS IN WEST ROXBURY, ROSLINDALE AND HYDE PARK ZERO. AND HUNDREDS IN MATTAPAN, DORCHESTER AND ROXBURY.  I WASN'T SURPRISED ABOUT THAT SECOND PART BECAUSE I SEE THEM EVERYWHERE. BUT IT WAS SURPRISING TO ME THAT THERE WERE ZERO AT THAT TIME IN THOSE WHITER NEIGHBORHOODS. SO AS WE HAVE ALL SEEN, YOU KNOW, THE VPD PROVIDED IN RESPONSE TO OUR LETTER TO THE MAYOR ASKING FOR SUBSEQUENT INFORMATION ABOUT THESE REPORTS AND UPDATED ACCOUNTING OF WHERE THESE CAMERAS ARE LOCATED NOW PERHAPS IN RESPONSE TO CRITICISM THAT THE DEPARTMENT RECEIVED AFTER DISCLOSING THE LOCATIONS OF THE CAMERAS IN 2020 MAYBE FOR ANOTHER REASON THAT'S CHANGED A LITTLE BIT.  THERE ARE NOW A HANDFUL OF CAMERAS IN WEST ROXBURY AND HYDE PARK. IT DIDN'T SAY ROSLINDALE. I'M NOT SURE WHY.  THERE ARE HOWEVER MANY, MANY MORE TIMES THE NUMBER OF SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE MOSTLY PEOPLE OF COLOR ROXBURY, DORCHESTER, MATTAPAN.  SO I THINK THE NUMBERS ARE LIKE LET ME SEE I WROTE IT DOWN HERE TODAY ACCORDING TO THE BPD EITHER EIGHT CAMERAS IN WEST ROXBURY, TWO IN HYDE PARK AND,  A TOTAL OF 406 IN ROXBURY, MATTAPAN AND DORCHESTER.  SO THAT'S JUST NOT REMOTELY AN EVEN DISTRIBUTION OF CAMERAS.  THERE ARE A LOT DOWNTOWN AS WELL BUT IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE MOST PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIVE IT'S REALLY AN UNEQUAL DISTRIBUTION.  AND ALL OF US WHO LIVE IN BOSTON KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS IN TERMS OF THE RACIAL BREAKDOWN OF WHO'S BEING MONITORED PREDOMINANTLY IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES BY THESE CAMERAS. SO HAVING SAID THAT, THAT'S WHY THE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THESE CAMERAS ARE USED WAS SO SURPRISING AND RELEVANT TO ME BECAUSE CAR ACCIDENTS TAKE PLACE ALL OVER THE CITY. RIGHT. AND IF THE NUMBER ONE REASON THAT POLICE ARE REQUESTING VIDEO DATA FOR CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS IS CAR ACCIDENTS AND MOST OF THESE CAMERAS ARE IN BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS AND NOT IN PLACES LIKE WEST ROXBURY AND ROSLINDALE AND HYDE PARK.  TO ME THAT RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THAT CAMERA DISTRIBUTION IS IS, YOU KNOW, RELEVANT TO THE MISSION,  SO TO SPEAK.  SO YOU KNOW, I COULD TALK A LOT MORE ABOUT THAT. THE ACLU IS GOING TO HAVE MORE TO SAY PUBLICLY ABOUT WHAT THE VIDEO REQUEST DATA SHOWS. YOU KNOW, AND HOW IT RELATES TO THE RACIAL BREAKDOWN OF VARIOUS NEIGHBORHOODS AND HOW CAR ACCIDENTS ARE DISTRIBUTED THROUGHOUT THE CITY. WE'RE GOING TO DO SOME ANALYSIS THAT WE LOOK FORWARD TO SHARING WITH THE COUNCIL AND WITH THE BROADER COMMUNITY BECAUSE AGAIN, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT WE'VE HAD ACCESS TO THIS INFORMATION AND THAT INFORMATION REALLY WAS QUITE SURPRISING TO ME WHICH IS NOT TO SAY I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD INVESTIGATE CAR ACCIDENTS.  I DO. IT JUST, YOU KNOW, RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE CAMERAS.  I'M GOING TO JUST SAY A FEW OTHER THINGS.  AGAIN, WHILE THE BPD DID PROVIDE FOR THE FIRST TIME WHICH WE APPRECIATE COMPREHENSIVE DATA SHOWING WHY VIDEO SURVEILLANCE FOOTAGE WAS REQUESTED BY DETECTIVES AND OTHERS WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT TO CONDUCT INVESTIGATIONS AND HOW OFTEN WHAT IT DIDN'T TELL US WHAT THESE REPORTS DON'T TELL US IS HOW OFTEN THAT VIDEO DATA WAS ACTUALLY USEFUL IN A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION BECAUSE AGAIN, THIS IS THE REAL WORLD. IT'S NOT CSI, IT'S NOT LAW AND ORDER SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT.  IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE THAT EACH TIME AN OFFICER REQUESTED DATA FROM THE VIDEO UNIT IN A MURDER INVESTIGATOR ACTION IN A CARJACKING INVESTIGATION IN A MOTOR VEHICLE ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION THERE WAS ANY USEFUL INFORMATION, RIGHT THAT RESULTED FROM THAT VIDEO REQUEST. AND SO I UNDERSTAND I'VE SPOKEN TO FOLKS IN BPD LEGAL ABOUT THIS PREVIOUSLY AND I UNDERSTAND THAT IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT AND TIME CONSUMING FOR THE DEPARTMENT TO GO THROUGH EVERY CASE FILE AND YOU KNOW, DOCUMENT WHETHER OR NOT VIDEO EVIDENCE WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN A CASE GOING TO PROSECUTION. RIGHT. THAT'S TRUE FOR THE HISTORICAL INFORMATION. BUT WHAT I WOULD ASK MY NUMBER ONE REQUEST OF THIS COUNCIL IS TO PARTNER WITH US AND WITH THE BPD AND THE ADMINISTRATION TO CHANGE THAT GOING FORWARD SO THAT IN FUTURE YEARS IT'S AS SIMPLE AS JUST EXPORTING A DATABASE SEARCH SO THAT WE CAN AS A COMMUNITY AND YOU CAN AS CITY COUNCILORS ACTUALLY HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE ACCOUNTING NOT JUST OF HOW OFTEN VIDEO DATA WAS REQUESTED BUT HOW OFTEN VIDEO DATA WAS SENT TO PROSECUTORS BECAUSE IT WAS IMPORTANT IN A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION AND OF WHAT TYPE THAT WAY WE CAN HAVE A MUCH FULLER UNDERSTANDING OF THE UTILITY AND THE EFFICACY OF SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS WHICH UNFORTUNATELY DESPITE YOU KNOW, THE INTERESTING INFORMATION THAT BP PROVIDED ABOUT VIDEO REQUEST DATA, THAT INFORMATION NOT GIVE US AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THE CAMERAS ARE ACTUALLY ON A SORT OF MASS SCALE, NOT JUST ANECDOTALLY THEY DID PROVIDE SOME ANECDOTAL INFORMATION BUT BROADLY SPEAKING IN TERMS OF THE DATA. HOW USEFUL ARE THE CAMERAS THAT WOULD ALLOW US, FOR EXAMPLE, TO DO A SORT OF COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS IS THE PRIVACY INTRUSION YOU KNOW, WORTH IT? IS THE FINANCIAL COST WORTH IT RIGHT NOW WE CAN'T WE CAN'T REALLY MAKE THAT ASSESSMENT BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION. SO AGAIN, THERE ARE SOME PRETTY GLARING HOLES IN THIS IN THESE SURVEILLANCE REPORTS IN A WHOLE BUNCH OF AREAS. I DON'T HAVE TIME TO DISCUSS ALL OF THEM. I'LL DISCUSS ONE THE DATABASE,  THE DATABASES AND CERTAIN SOFTWARE THAT BPD USES THERE. THERE WAS NOT REALLY ANY INFORMATION IN THE ANNUAL REPORTS ABOUT HOW THOSE DATABASE SYSTEMS WERE USED. THAT'S THAT'S REALLY SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE THESE DATABASES YOU KNOW COUNCILOR , WHETHER YOU'RE AN ATTORNEY I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE USED LEXISNEXIS OR THOMSON REUTERS BUT THEY HAVE DATABASES THAT ARE SOLD TO LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT ARE COMPOSED OF QUOTE UNQUOTE PUBLIC RECORDS. BUT THESE ARE NOT REALLY RECORDS THAT THAT MOST OF US HAVE ACCESS TO THERE. FOR EXAMPLE, I'VE SEEN SOME OF THESE THINGS IN BPD DISCLOSURES FROM PUBLIC RECORDS LITIGATION THAT WE'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THEM OVER THE YEARS. IF I WERE TO SEARCH YOUR NAME,  COUNCILOR SANTANA IN ONE OF THESE DATABASES I WOULD LIKELY FIND EVERY PLACE YOU'VE EVER LIVED, EVERY CELL PHONE NUMBER YOU'VE EVER HAD, EVERY ROOMMATE YOU'VE EVER HAD, EVERY THING YOU'VE EVER OWNED THAT YOU'VE REGISTERED WITH THE GOVERNMENT ABOUT A CAR, YOU KNOW, AN APARTMENT, WHATEVER YOUR CREDIT HISTORY, YOUR EMPLOYMENT HISTORY ALL SORTS OF INFORMATION THAT IS EXTREMELY SENSITIVE. SO THIS INFORMATION IS NOT JUST AVAILABLE ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE ,YOU KNOW, SUSPECTED OF A CRIME OR CONVICTED OF A CRIME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT'S AVAILABLE ABOUT ALL OF US AT ALL TIMES AT THE CLICK OF A BUTTON WITH THESE DATABASES. SO YOU KNOW, WHILE I APPRECIATE THE BPD WORK TO PRODUCE THESE ANNUAL REPORTS, I THINK THIS IS ONE AREA WHERE THERE'S SOME ROOM TO GROW IN TERMS OF PROVIDING THE COUNCILOR AND THE PUBLIC WITH ACCESS TO INFORMATION ABOUT HOW OFTEN THESE DATABASES ARE QUERIED IN WHAT TYPES OF INVESTIGATIONS.  YOU KNOW AND AGAIN THAT IS THEORETICALLY SOMETHING THAT COULD BE SIMPLY EXPORTED AS AN AUDIT FILE, RIGHT? THERE SHOULD BE METADATA TO THAT'S RELATIVELY EASY TO PRODUCE THAT SAYS YOU KNOW WE QUERIED LEXISNEXIS DO 20,000 TIMES LAST YEAR OR WHATEVER AND WE DID IT TO INVESTIGATE THESE TYPES OF OFFENSES.  THAT IS IMPORTANT. THERE ARE OTHER DATABASES AS WELL THAT YOU KNOW, THERE'S BASICALLY NO INFORMATION IN THESE REPORTS ABOUT I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT ONE OTHER ONE AND THAT IS BRIEF. CAN.  I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW THIS IN YOUR TOUR OF THE BRICK BUT THIS IS SOFTWARE THAT I ENCOURAGE YOU TO GOOGLE. IT'S CALLED BRIEF CAM AND WATCH SOME OF THE COMPANY'S PROMOTIONAL VIDEOS.  THIS IS SOFTWARE THAT ESSENTIALLY TURNS WHAT IS OTHERWISE JUST VIDEO DATA THAT COULD BE USEFUL WHEN THE POLICE KNOW OF A INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED IN A PARTICULAR LOCATION AND THEY CAN GO BACK AND SEE DID THE CAMERA CAPTURE SOMETHING YES OR NO? TURNS VIDEO SURVEILLANCE FROM A PRIMARILY INVESTIGATIVE INVESTIGATIVE HISTORICAL TOOL INTO A REAL TIME TRACKING TOOL. SO THIS IS SOFTWARE THAT ALLOWS FOR EXAMPLE, SOMEONE TO SAY SHOW ME WEARING A WHITE SHIRT IN THE CITY OF BOSTON RIGHT NOW . SHOW ME ALL THE WHITE TRUCKS ON THE STREETS OF BOSTON RIGHT NOW. IT USES ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TO ESSENTIALLY TURN ALL OF THAT VIDEO INTO LIKE ALMOST A GOOGLE SEARCHABLE FILE. ANOTHER THING THAT CAN BE DONE WITH THIS SOFTWARE IS THE TRACKING OF A PERSON FROM CAMERA TO CAMERA THROUGHOUT THE CITY. SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF I WERE INTERESTED IN TRACKING YOU, COUNCILOR WEBER AND YOU WALKED PAST A CAMERA, I COULD SIMPLY CLICK ON YOU ON THE SCREEN AND THEN IT WOULD SHOW ME EVERYWHERE YOU WENT THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF BOSTON ON ONE OF THESE ON A ON A BOSTON POLICE OWNED SURVEILLANCE CAMERA.  ANOTHER THING YOU CAN DO IS I WON'T KEEP GOING. I'LL GIVE YOU ONE MORE EXAMPLE. SHOW ME ALL THE BIKES IN THE CITY AND IT WILL JUST, YOU KNOW, MAKE A SORT OF VIDEO EDIT OF ALL OF THE BIKES AND SHOW YOU WHERE THEY ARE AND WHERE THEY'RE GOING. SO I HOPE THAT I'VE CONVEYED TO YOU THAT THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY POWERFUL SOFTWARE THAT IN OUR VIEW COULD TRIGGER CONSTITUTIONAL CONCERNS DEPENDING ON HOW IT'S USED.  AND SO THE ABSENCE OF REALLY ANY INFORMATION IN THESE REPORTS ABOUT HOW BOSTON POLICE OFFICERS HAVE USED TECHNOLOGY LIKE BRIEF CAM RAISES SIGNIFICANT CONCERNS FOR US. AND THEN FINALLY I'LL JUST SAY ON THE QUESTION OF THE CELL SITE SIMULATOR SO I WOULD DESCRIBE IT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY, COUNCILOR WEBER, AND SAY THAT THIS IS SOFTWARE THAT ESSENTIALLY AND HARDWARE THAT ESSENTIALLY TRICKS YOUR CELL PHONE INTO COMMUNICATING WITH THE POLICE INSTEAD OF WITH A CELL PHONE TOWER. SO BASICALLY WHAT IT'S DOING IS GOING AROUND SAYING MARCO, MARCO, MARCO, MARCO AND ALL THE CELL PHONES WITHIN YOU KNOW, A CERTAIN GEOGRAPHIC AREA OF THE DEVICE WILL SAY POLO, POLO,  POLO AND IDENTIFY THEMSELVES TO THE POLICE.  AND THIS ENABLES THE POLICE NOT ONLY TO TRACK INDIVIDUAL CELL PHONES BUT ALSO IN KIND OF THE WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO FROM A CIVIL CIVIL LIBERTARIANS PERSPECTIVE TO DOWNLOAD A LIST OF EVERYONE WHO ATTENDED A PROTEST. RIGHT. IF YOU BRING A DEVICE LIKE THIS TO A BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTEST FOR EXAMPLE AND YOU JUST HAVE IT IN A TRUCK. I'VE SEEN THESE TRUCKS AT PROTESTS I SUSPECTED OVER THE YEARS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN USED FOR THIS PURPOSE ALTHOUGH I HAVE NO EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT I'VE SEEN THE TRUCKS THAT HAVE THESE DEVICES IN THEM AT PROTESTS NUMEROUS TIMES IN BOSTON. IT WOULD BE RELATIVELY EASY TO SIMPLY TURN ON AND DOWNLOAD A LIST OF EVERYONE WHO WAS IN THE PHYSICAL YOU KNOW, PHYSICAL GEOGRAPHY OF THE AREA.  SO BECAUSE OF THAT, BECAUSE OF THE POWER OF THIS TECHNOLOGY ,I THINK THAT THE INFORMATION THAT THE BPD PRESENTED TO THE COUNCIL IS INSUFFICIENT AND I WOULD ASK RESPECTFULLY THAT YOU ASK THE BPD TO PROVIDE YOU WITH THE EQUIPMENT LOG THAT SHOWS EXACTLY HOW OFTEN THIS EQUIPMENT WAS CHECKED OUT AND BY WHOM BECAUSE YOU KNOW, JUST A SMALL PARAGRAPH IF THAT'S LIKE YEAH WE USED IT TWICE YOU KNOW THAT DOESN'T RISE TO THE LEVEL IN MY OPINION. IT IS EXTREMELY INVASIVE TECHNOLOGY IN A FOOTNOTE IN AN SJC CASE THAT DEALT WITH CELLPHONE LOCATION TRACKING THE SJC HELD BASICALLY YOU KNOW OUR REQUIREMENT THAT THE POLICE GET A WARRANT TO TRACK SOMEONE'S CELL PHONE ALSO EXTENDS TO OTHER TECHNOLOGICAL MEANS THAT THEY MIGHT USE BESIDES ASKING A CELL PHONE COMPANY FOR HISTORICAL LOCATION RECORDS WE TAKE THAT TO MEAN THE USE OF A STINGRAY.  SO THERE'S DICTA IN SJC CASES THAT BASICALLY SAYS, YOU KNOW, A WARRANT IS REQUIRED TO USE THIS TECHNOLOGY EXCEPT IN EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES. AGAIN, YOU KNOW THE BPD IS DESCRIPTION OF THE TWO EVENTS IN WHICH THEY ACKNOWLEDGE USING A STINGRAY IN IN 2023. IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME THAT THOSE ARE EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES THEY MAY HAVE BEEN IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME THAT THEY WERE BASED ON THE DESCRIPTION. SO AND I'LL ALSO JUST SAY FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH THAT THE ACLU HAS BEEN VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE USE OF STINGRAYS FOR MANY YEARS. A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO WE REQUESTED OF THE BPD INFORMATION ABOUT EACH CASE IN WHICH IT HAD USED THE STINGRAY AND INFORMATION ABOUT WHETHER IT HAD OBTAINED A WARRANT OR USED THE DEVICE IN EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES AND THIS YEARS AGO.  SO I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT DATE BUT I DO REMEMBER THAT THEY TOLD US THEY HAD NEVER GOTTEN A WARRANT TO USE THE TECHNOLOGY. SO THAT'S ALSO QUITE CONCERNING TO US AS WELL. SO I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT. LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW, I, I COULD GO ON AND ON AND ON ABOUT THIS STUFF BUT AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO CONCLUDE BY THANKING YOU BOTH THANKING YOU COUNSELOR FLYNN FOR STICKING AROUND ALL DAY AND AGAIN THANKING THE FOLKS AT BP LEGAL AND ALL OF YOUR STAFF AND EVERYONE WHO WAS INVOLVED IN IN WRITING THESE REPORTS. I KNOW IT TOOK A LOT OF WORK AND AS YOU CAN SEE WE STILL THINK THE CITY HAS SOME WORK TO DO BUT WE BELIEVE AND WE'VE COMMUNICATED THIS TO THE ADMINISTRATION AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT THIS IS AN ITERATIVE PROCESS. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THIS IS HAPPENING AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUED ITERATION TO GET TO A POINT WHERE WE CAN SORT OF BE ON AUTOPILOT AND JUST YOU KNOW, THE BP WILL BE EXPECTED TO PRODUCE THE SAME KIND OF REPORTS EVERY YEAR. I DON'T THINK WE'RE QUITE THERE YET. THANK YOU.  THANK YOU. AND I HOPE TO GET THERE AS WELL. THERE'S A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE SO THANK YOU. I WOULD NOW LIKE TO ASK ALEX TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND SHARE YOUR OPENING REMARKS AND I THINK YOU HAVE A PRESENTATION FOR US.  OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK FURTHER. I KNOW IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY. I WILL TRY TO KNOW AND TO NOT GO LONGER THAN IT NEEDS TO DO. I, I THANK KATE CROCKFORD FOR AN EXCELLENT PRESENTATION. IT'S CERTAINLY SAVED ME HAVING TO GO INTO DEPTH OVER CELL SITE SIMULATORS.  WHAT I DID IN RELATION TO THESE REPORTS WAS TO CREATE DETAILED WRITTEN FEEDBACK ON EACH OF THE REPORTS WHICH IS INCLUDED IN THE WRITTEN MATERIALS THAT HAS BEEN SUPPLIED TO CITY COUNCILORS. THERE IS ALSO A TOP LEVEL OF THAT OR ON THAT OF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR IMPROVING THE REPORTS. I'M GOING TO MOSTLY TALK ABOUT THAT WITH OCCASIONAL ALLUSIONS TO SOME OF THE FASCINATING THINGS THAT WERE INCLUDED IN THE INDIVIDUAL REPORTS RELATING TO INDIVIDUAL TECHNOLOGY.  SO HERE WE GO JUST TO HIGHLIGHT TO COUNCILORS IN GENERAL OBVIOUSLY WITH ANY SET OF SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES THAT THERE ARE ONES THAT ARE MORE OF CONCERN AND ONE LESS OF CONCERN.  I HIGHLIGHTED FOUR THAT WERE OF PARTICULAR CONCERN TO DIGITAL FOURTH. I ALSO WANT TO ADD THAT THERE WERE A COUPLE OF REPORTS THAT DEAL WITH FORENSIC DATABASES AND THE CRIME LAB WHERE THE SPECIFIC HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE WERE BEING USED BY THE CITY WERE NOT IDENTIFIED AT ALL AND SO THEY COULD BE USING CELLEBRITE THEY COULD BE USING GRAY KEY, THEY COULD BE USING A VARIETY OF TECHNOLOGIES AND WE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY KNOW ABOUT THEM. THEREFORE WE WERE NOT ABLE TO ASSESS AND WE STILL CANNOT SAY THAT WE UNDERSTAND THE FULL EXTENT OF THE SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES USED BY THE CITY'S CITY BECAUSE IN THOSE TWO REPORTS THEY DID NOT STATE WHAT HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE WERE USED IN THE DATABASES.  REPORT THAT KADE CROCKFORD DISCUSSED. THERE IS ALSO ONE ADDITIONAL DATABASE THAT I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT WHICH WAS REFERRED TO IN THE REPORTS AND THIS IS CALLED THE SITE DATABASE CITY. SO PLEASE SEARCH THROUGH THE REPORT FOR WHEN YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A COMPUTER FOR WHAT THE SITE DATABASE IS. OUR CONCERN HERE IS THAT THE SITE DATABASE WAS DEVELOPED BY BY BY AN ISRAELI FIRM AND SPECIALIZES IN THE IN THE COLLECTION OF INFORMATION THAT MAY INDICATE JIHADI LINKS FOR INDIVIDUALS.  IT APPEARS THAT THERE ARE ELEMENTS OF THE SITE DATABASE THAT BOSTON PD ONLY STARTED USING THIS YEAR. WE WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED TO FIND OUT WHETHER THOSE ELEMENTS THAT THEY STARTED USING THIS YEAR WERE ADOPTED BY BOSTON PD AFTER THE HAMAS ATTACK ON ISRAEL AND WHETHER THEREFORE BPD IS USING THIS DATABASE WHICH HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED BY IN IN COURT CASES AS BEING EXTREMELY AGGRESSIVE AND INCLUSIVE FOR THE INFORMATION IT GATHERS.  WHETHER THEY ARE USING IT TO INVESTIGATE OR GATHER INFORMATION ON BOSTON RESIDENTS WHO ARE CONCERNED TO ADVOCATE FOR CEASEFIRE IN GAZA. THE EXACT SAME SURVEILLANCE ISSUE HAS ALREADY COME UP IN THE CITY OF CAMBRIDGE IN RELATION TO GAZA CEASEFIRE PROTESTERS THERE AND THE USE OF COVERT SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS . SO IT'S NOT BEYOND THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY TO SUPPOSE THAT BOSTON PD MAY BE DOING THIS.  PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN FAMILIAR FOR ENOUGH YEARS WITH THIS PROCESS MAY RECALL THAT BOSTON PD STOPPED ITS CONTRACT WITH THE GEO FREE TO USE SOCIAL MEDIA SURVEILLANCE SERVICE AFTER BOSTON PD OFFICERS WERE FOUND TO HAVE BEEN SEARCHING ON BOSTON RESIDENTS WHO WERE USING THE HASHTAG MUSLIM LIVES MATTER. SO ALL OF THIS IS POSSIBLE. PERTINENT QUESTIONS COULD BE ASKED ON THE PART OF CITY COUNCILORS UNDER THEIR GENERAL PROCESS CONCERNS THAT WE HAVE.  THERE WERE TWO DEPARTMENTS THAT SEEM TO HAVE SOME TROUBLE WITH ACCEPTING THAT THERE THAT THEY NEED TO FULFILL ALL ELEMENTS OF THE REPORTING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCE. THOSE INCLUDE THE BOSTON PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND THERE WILL BE A LATER HEARING ON THOSE AND THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT IN RELATION TO THE GANG ASSESSMENT DATABASE A DISCUSSION WE ALREADY CAME UP BRIEFLY RELATING TO THAT AND THERE WAS A QUESTION REGARDING THE AG'S INVESTIGATION OF BOSTON PD FOR THE GANG ASSESSMENT DATABASE AND MR WALSH REPRESENTING THE BRICK NOTED THAT THE AG HAD NOT YET MADE ITS REPORT AND THAT THEREFORE THERE WAS NO FINDING OF RACIAL BIAS. WHAT I WOULD OBSERVE HOWEVER IS THAT THERE HAS BEEN A COURT RULING RELATING TO THE GANG ASSESSMENT DATABASE AND THAT THE COURT RE RULING SPECIFICALLY CALLED OUT THE GANG DATABASE FOR CRIMINALIZING ORDINARY BEHAVIORS OF MINORITY YOUTH.  THEY KNOW THIS. THEY'RE WELL AWARE OF THIS RULING. THEY'VE BEEN ADJUSTING THE DATABASE IN RESPONSE TO THIS RULING. SO IT IS EXTRAORDINARY THAT IN RESPONSE TO THE SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCE PROCESS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WOULD COME UP WITH A STATEMENT LIKE THE ONE I'M DISPLAYING ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW. THE DEPARTMENT MAINTAINS THAT NO CIVIL RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES HAVE BEEN IMPACTED AS A RESULT OF ITS USE OF THE GANG ASSESSMENT DATABASE. THE DEPARTMENT RECOGNIZES THAT THE GANG ASSESSMENT DATABASE HAS BEEN CRITICIZED THOUGH THEY DO NOT SAY BY THE COURTS AS A DATASET THAT PREDOMINANTLY CONTAINS PEOPLE PEOPLE OF COLOR. THIS UNFORTUNATE DISPARITY IS DUE TO THE GANG DYNAMICS IN THE CITY OF BOSTON AND NOT AS A RESULT OF ANY RACIALLY BIASED PRACTICES. SO LET'S REVIEW FOR BOSTON PD WHEN IT COMES TO DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACTS THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO IDENTIFY UNDER THE SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCE. IF THERE HAS NOT BEEN A FINDING BY THE EXTERNAL AND EXTERNAL AGENCY OF RACIALLY BIASED PRACTICES THEN THEY WILL NOT ADDRESS THEM IN ANY WAY OR DISCUSS THEM AS PART OF THIS PROCESS WITH THE CITY. HOWEVER, IF THERE HAS BEEN A FINDING THEN THEY'LL JUST SAY WELL WE DISAGREE.  THE FIRST ACTUAL RECOMMENDATION TO HAVE IS THAT THERE HAS BEEN A RULING ONE YEAR AGO CALLED COMMONWEALTH. WE THEN DO AND THAT RULING HOLDS THAT COVERT VIDEO SURVEILLANCE REQUIRES A WARRANT AND THAT IF OBTAINED WITHOUT ONE VIOLATES THE WIRETAP STATUTE.  THE RULING RELATED TO A PRACTICE OF BOSTON UNDERCOVER COPS WHO WERE USING AN APP CALLED CALL GO TO COVER COVERTLY RECORD VIDEO AND AUDIO OF CONVERSATIONS WITH SUSPECTED DRUG DEALERS. THEY DID. THEY WERE DOING IT WITHOUT A WARRANT. THAT RULING PLACED BOSTON PD ON VERY CLEAR NOTICE. THAT IF THEY WERE USING THE COOLIO APP THEY WOULD NEED TO HAVE A WARRANT.  BUT I WOULD NOTE THAT IT WAS NOT LIMITED TO COOLIO AS AN APP. IT RELATED TO VIDEO SURVEILLANCE IN GENERAL. SO THIS IS TO STATE FOR THE RECORD THAT IF VIDEO SURVEILLANCE IS BEING CONDUCTED BY A CITY DEPARTMENT IN THE CITY OF BOSTON COVERTLY THEN IT REQUIRES A WARRANT. UNDER COMMONWEALTH WE THEN DO AND THERE ARE SEVERAL TECHNOLOGY ISSUES WHERE THAT NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED TO MAKE SURE THAT BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT'S PRACTICES IN THIS RESPECT ARE LAWFUL.  I HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR IMPROVEMENTS TO THE FED TO THE MATTER ADEQUATELY. EVERYTHING IS GO.  I KNOW YOU HAVE A COUPLE OTHER SIDES OF RECOMMENDATIONS YET FOR THE PURPOSE OF TIME CAN WE? YEP. AND I AM HAPPY FOR PEOPLE TO REFER TO THE WRITTEN COMMENTS UNDER THAT CONTEXT.  THEY DEAL WITH EACH OF THESE SECTIONS OF THE REPORTS IN GENERAL. WE HOPE THAT YOU WILL FIND THEM USEFUL BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING WE ARE TRYING TO ENCOURAGE THE REPORTS TO BE TRUTHFUL AND INFORMED TO MOVE IN WAYS THAT ARE USEFUL FOR CITY COUNCILORS . WE RECOMMEND THAT THE CITY SETS AND IMPROVE SETS AN EXPECTATION THAT FOR REPORTS THAT DO NOT COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS THAT THEY CLEARLY PREVIOUSLY HAVE SET. THERE SHOULD BE HEARINGS FOR THE PURPOSE OF DISCUSSING WHETHER TO APPROVE OR DENY THE USE OF TECHNOLOGY OF SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY IN THE CITY WHERE DEPARTMENTS CLEARLY MISSTATE OR FAIL TO REPLY TO QUESTIONS SPECIFIED IN THE ORDINANCE OR CONCEAL RELEVANT INFORMATION. THERE MUST BE A CONSEQUENCE AND HAVING A HEARING OF THAT KIND SEEMS LIKE AN APPROPRIATE CONSEQUENCE AS WE'VE MENTIONED IN THE CONTEXT OF SHOTSPOTTER. GEOGRAPHIC EXTENT TIONS THE ORDINANCE LANGUAGE ALREADY REQUIRES THAT FOR NEW MANNERS OF DEPLOYMENT THERE SHOULD BE A RETURN TO CITY COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL. I OFFER SOME EXAMPLES HERE OF THE ADOPTION OF GENETEC WITH RESPECT TO BPD CAMERAS. THAT RAISES SOME OF THE IMPLICATIONS THAT CADE WAS TALKING ABOUT WITH RESPECT TO BRIEF CAM THE CELL SITE SIMULATOR BECAUSE THERE IS A NEW AND MORE SOPHISTICATED KIND OF CELL SITE SIMULATOR THAT THE MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE HAS ACQUIRED AND WHICH IS AVAILABLE TO BEAT BPD TO BORROW BPD MAY ALREADY HAVE ACQUIRED SUCH ASSOCIATED SIMULATOR BECAUSE THEY MAKE REFERENCE TO A CAR BASED SO SITE SIMULATOR IN ANOTHER PART OF THE REPORTS. BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT IS TRUE.  IN ANY CASE, THEIR ACCESS TO A STATE POLICE CELL STATE SIMILAR SIMULATOR THAT IS NEWER AND MORE POWERFUL MAY POSE ISSUES FOR THE ORDINANCE. AND OF COURSE THE MATTER RELATING TO SHOTSPOTTER ALREADY REFERRED AND I DO HAVE TO SAY THAT IN LIGHT OF BPD FEROCIOUS RESISTANCE TO THE NOTION OF ANY KIND OF RACIAL BIAS WITHIN THE GANG ASSESSMENT DATABASE AND THEIR HOSTILITY TO THAT ACKNOWLEDGING OR DEALING WITH THE ISSUES OF RACIAL BIAS RAISED BY ADVOCATES EMBRACED BY THE COURTS WE DO RECOMMEND THAT CITY COUNCILORS CONSIDER INTRODUCING A PROPOSAL TO END THE GANG ASSESSMENT DATABASE.  IT IS BEYOND BELIEF THAT IN A CITY WITH A LONG HISTORY OF GANG ACTIVITY NOT BY PEOPLE OF COLOR AND WITH A CURRENT HISTORY OF WHITE SUPREMACIST GANG ACTIVITY NOT BY PEOPLE OF COLOR THAT BREEDS PERSPECTIVE CONTINUES TO BE WELL IT CAN'T BE RACIST BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS THE PEOPLE OF COLOR DOING THE GANG ACTIVITY.  TO ME THAT IS SHOCKING AND IT SHOULD SHOCK EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM THAT THAT IS THEIR PERSPECTIVE AND IN THAT PERSPECTIVE IF THEY CANNOT RUN THE GANG ASSESSMENT DATABASE IN ANY OTHER WAY, THEY SHOULD NOT RUN IT AT ALL. THE INFORMATION THEY DISCLOSED SUGGESTS THAT ALREADY FOR 96% OF THE PEOPLE ON THE GANG ASSESSMENT DATABASE THEY HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD AND THEREFORE APPEAR IN OTHER RECORDS OF THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. WHICH RAISES THE QUESTION WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE? WHAT UTILITY IS IT PROVIDING FOR OVER AND ABOVE WHAT IS ALREADY 96% IN OTHER DATABASES? AND WITH THAT I CONCLUDE THANK YOU SO MUCH.  I REALLY APPRECIATE BOTH OF YOUR TESTIMONIES HERE AND IN BOTH OF YOUR PRESENCE. I WILL NOW GO IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL TO MY COLLEAGUES WITH ANY QUESTIONS STARTING WITH THE CO-SPONSOR COUNCILOR WEBER. WHOEVER YOU HAVE A QUESTION?  I HAVE 14 HOURS. OKAY.  SO I THIS IS INTENDED AS A AS A SOFTBALL CARD. I'M SURE YOU'VE BEEN ASKED THIS BEFORE BUT YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF NOT SHOTSPOTTER OR YOU KNOW OR THE GANG DATABASE JUST CAMERAS, MICROPHONES I MEAN WHAT IS THE HARM IF YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE JUST FOLLOWING THE LAW LIKE YOU KNOW, IT JUST DON'T DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL.  WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO ARE FOLLOWING THE LAW CARE ABOUT ENHANCED SURVEILLANCE? OKAY.  GREAT QUESTION. SO DO YOU HAVE A PASSWORD ON YOUR PHONE? YES. GREAT.  YOU HAVE A PASSWORD ON YOUR EMAIL? YEAH.  YOU HAVE A KEY THAT LOCKS YOUR DOOR AT HOME? YES. YOU USE CURTAINS, CORRECT? YEAH. SO EVERYONE CARES ABOUT THEIR PRIVACY. I MEAN THE NOTION THAT PEOPLE DON'T IS IT'S RIDICULOUS. I MEAN EVERY LITERALLY EVERYONE CARES ABOUT THEIR PRIVACY. IT'S A IT'S FUNDAMENTAL TO TO TO HUMAN BEINGS ABILITY TO CONTROL OUR OWN LIVES, TO DEFINE OURSELVES IN OUR COMMUNITIES. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I DON'T TELL I DON'T SHOW THE WHOLE WORLD THE SIDE OF ME THAT I SHOW TO MY PARTNER. I TALK TO MY DOGS IN EXTREMELY EMBARRASSING WAYS THAT I WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY HUMILIATED IF THEY WERE EVER DISCOVERED BY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC OR BY SUCH ESTEEMED MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL AS YOURSELVES. PRIVACY IS IS AS WE SAW AFTER THE SUPREME COURT KNOCKED OUT THE ROE VERSUS WADE PROTECTION CENTRAL ALSO TO BODILY AUTONOMY. IT IS A FUNDAMENTAL REQUIREMENT OF LIVING IN A FREE AND OPEN AND DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY. YOU CANNOT CONTROL YOUR BODY. YOU CANNOT CONTROL HOW OTHER PEOPLE PERCEIVE YOU. YOU CANNOT CONTROL YOUR REPUTATION IF YOU CAN'T CONTROL YOUR PRIVACY. AND SO YOU KNOW, THAT'S A LITTLE ACADEMIC TO BE FAIR, ALTHOUGH I THINK AFTER JOBS YOU KNOW THE QUESTIONS I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS WORK FOR QUITE SOME TIME ALMOST 15 YEARS AND IN THAT TIME I HAVE THEN ASKED THAT QUESTION IN A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS A LOT OF TIMES ANOTHER ANOTHER FLAVOR OF IT IS WELL I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG. WHY SHOULD I CARE ABOUT MY PRIVACY RIGHT.  AND I THINK AFTER JOBS YOU'RE THE FIRST PERSON TO ASK ME THAT QUESTION SINCE THE DOBBS DECISION AND I KNOW THAT YOU ASKED IT FOR RHETORICAL REASONS BUT THE POINT THAT I'M MAKING IS THAT THE DOBBS DECISION MADE IT REALLY CLEAR ESPECIALLY TO THE 50% OF THE POPULATION THAT CAN HAVE BABIES WHY PRIVACY MATTERS SO MUCH AND IS FUNDAMENTAL TO HUMAN DIGNITY AND BODILY AUTONOMY. AND SO WHY DOES IT MATTER IN THE CONTEXT OF POLICE SURVEILLANCE FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS.  THERE ARE, AS I SAID BEFORE, SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD ALL OVER THE PLACE. IN FACT, WHEN I STAND ON MY BACK PORCH AND WATCH MY DOGS GO OUT TO IN MY BACKYARD, I USED TO BE ABLE TO SEE A SURVEILLANCE CAMERA DIRECTLY WHICH MEANT THAT THAT SURVEILLANCE CAMERA COULD SEE ME TOO, WHICH MEANT THAT EVERY TIME I WALKED IN AND OUT OF MY HOUSE SOMEBODY IN THE BOSTON REGIONAL INTELLIGENCE CENTER OR THE REAL TIME CRIME CENTER COULD KNOW WHEN I WAS HOME AND WHEN I WASN'T COULD KNOW MY PATTERNS OF LIFE COULD TRACK EVERY EVERY TIME I CAME HOME AND LEFT MY HOME COULD SEE THAT I WAS MAYBE CRYING ON MY BACK STOOP RIGHT.  COULD SEE THAT MAYBE I WAS HAVING AN ARGUMENT WITH MY PARTNER ON MY BACK PORCH COULD SEE WHEN MY CAR WAS PULLING IN AND OUT OF MY DRIVEWAY. RIGHT. THAT'S FRIGHTENING HONESTLY AND IT DID FRIGHTEN ME AT THE TIME. THE ONLY REASON THAT THAT'S NOT THE CASE ANYMORE IS BECAUSE THANK GOD PEOPLE HAVE BEEN BUILDING SOME HOUSING IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND SOMEBODY BUILT A HOUSE THAT DIRECTLY BLOCKS THAT CAMERA FROM SEEING ME ON MY BACK PORCH SO THE POLICE CAN NO LONGER WATCH ME IN MY KITCHEN WHICH THEY USED TO BE ABLE TO DO OR ON MY BACK PORCH. BUT I HAVE BEEN CONCERNED FRANKLY EVERY TIME I WALK PAST MY NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE'S A SURVEILLANCE CAMERA RIGHT OUTSIDE THEIR BEDROOM WINDOW. I THINK ANYBODY WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. AND IN FACT IN THESE REPORTS THERE IS A MENTION OF SOMEONE COMPLAINING TO THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT ABOUT THE INSTALLATION OF A SURVEILLANCE CAMERA RIGHT OUTSIDE THEIR BEDROOM.  THAT PERSON WAS CONCERNED THEY DID NOT WANT A CAMERA TIED INTO THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT COULD POTENTIALLY SEE INTO THEIR BEDROOM AND BASED ON THE BPD RESPONSE THAT IS DOCUMENTED IN THESE REPORTS, THE RESPONSE WAS ESSENTIALLY TOUGH LUCK KID . THAT'S WHERE THE CAMERA IS GOING, RIGHT. SO YOU KNOW, EVERY HUMAN BEING CARES ABOUT PRIVACY. POLICE HAVE IN THE PAST ABUSED THEIR ACCESS TO SENSITIVE INFORMATION INCLUDING SURVEILLANCE DATA THAT HAS HAPPENED HERE IN THE CITY OF BOSTON.  ALEX REFERENCED ONE EXAMPLE I CAN GIVE YOU ANOTHER WE DID A PUBLIC RECORDS LITIGATION A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO ASKING THE BPD FOR INFORMATION ABOUT SO-CALLED INTELLIGENCE GATHERING THAT THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT DID TARGETING THE ANTIWAR MOVEMENT IN THE LATE 2000S. THIS INCLUDED THESE DOCUMENTS THAT WE GOT THAT WERE LABELED LIKE INTELLIGENCE REPORTS, HOMELAND SECURITY EXTREMISTS, THINGS LIKE THAT INCLUDED AMONG OTHER THINGS, THE DESCRIPTION OF A TOTALLY PEACEFUL ANTIWAR MEETING AT A CHURCH IN JAMAICA PLAIN THAT WAS ATTENDED BY FORMER CITY COUNCILOR ARROYO SENIOR FELIX ARROYO EXCUSE ME THEY ALSO INCLUDED A AN INTELLIGENCE REPORT SO-CALLED THAT WAS ENTIRELY ABOUT A DEBATE WITHIN THE THE ANTIWAR MOVEMENT IN BOSTON ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT PROGRESSIVES SHOULD SUPPORT THEN CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA OR HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS VIEWS ON THE IRAQ WAR.  I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT'S CARETAKING MISSION OR ITS RESPONSIBILITIES FOR PREVENTING CRIME. I LITERALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I DO KNOW IS THAT IN RESPONSE TO THE ACLU'S PUBLICATION OF THESE EXTREMELY DAMNING REPORTS, THE BPD DID NOT SAY WE'LL STOP SPYING ON PEOPLE'S FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTED PEACEFUL ACTIVITY. THEY DID NOT SAY THAT WHAT THEY SAID WAS WE SHOULDN'T HAVE RETAINED THESE REPORTS AS LONG AS WE DID AND THE FACT THAT WE RETAIN THEM FOR SO LONG WAS DUE TO A COMPUTER GLITCH. SO FRANKLY THAT DOESN'T GIVE ME A LOT OF CONFIDENCE THAT THAT KIND OF STUFF HAS STOPPED AT THE DEPARTMENT.  YOU KNOW, I'D WELCOME A CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT KIND OF INTELLIGENCE GATHERING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE SPYING ON PEACE PEOPLE WHO ARE ENGAGED IN IN COMPLETELY LEGAL FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTED SPEECH IN ASSOCIATION AND THOSE ARE A FEW OF THE EXAMPLES OF WHY PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE CONCERNED THAT THERE ARE SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS AGAIN MOSTLY IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS AND NOT IN OTHERS . YEAH, THANK YOU. I JUST I THINK I HAVE TWO MORE QUESTIONS. YOU KNOW AND I I GUESS YOU KNOW, I THINK OF THIS AS BEING AN ISSUE. YEAH. YOU GO TO A PROTEST AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE BEING WATCHED, YOU KNOW, AND YOU MAY GET PULLED OVER, YOU KNOW, ALL KINDS OF CONSEQUENCES FOLLOWING WHAT REALLY YOU KNOW THERE'S WHERE SOMEBODY MIGHT NOT HAVE ANY PLACE IN MONITORING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IT JUST AND TO SOME EXTENT I SEE THE SAME THING A LITTLE MORE SERIOUSLY ABOUT BOSTON. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BPD.  YOU KNOW, MY AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS FROM YOU KNOW, READING MAGAZINES, YOU KNOW, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN DO ALL THESE THINGS AND THAT THE NSA CAN IS CAN JUST HAS A RUNNING TALLY ON EVERYTHING PEOPLE ARE SAYING IS YOU KNOW WE'RE TALKING EVERYONE HAS THESE PHONES YOU KNOW, IT'S EASILY MONITORED. I HAVE A BIZARRE STORY WHERE I WAS ON I WAS AT SOME PRESS CONFERENCE AND A FRIEND OF MINE I SAW THE VIDEO AND A FRIEND OF MINE SAID OH, I SAW YOU ON TV AND I WROTE BACK. I WAS LIKE ALL I COULD THINK OF WATCHING THAT WAS HOW IT'S IT'S TIME FOR, YOU KNOW, HAIR PLUGS OR SOMETHING. AND THEN SO SHE WROTE BACK TO ME THE NEXT WEEK IS LIKE THANKS A LOT.  NOW MY FACEBOOK FEED IS FULL OF HAIR TREATMENT ADS BECAUSE OF WHAT I SAID IN A TEXT AND I WROTE BACK I WAS LIKE WELL IT'S REALLY NOT THE HAIR PLUGS. IT'S THE CONSTIPATION THAT YOU KNOW. SO TO GET SOME MORE INTERESTING ADS ON HER FACEBOOK PAGE AND BUT IT'S FACEBOOK IS MY YOU KNOW THAT THIS SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE AT A LOCAL LEVEL BUT ISN'T THIS ISN'T THERE A BROADER ISSUE ABSOLUTELY AND IN FACT WE WERE PUSHING LEGISLATION THIS SESSION AT THE STATE LEGISLATURE TO BAN THE COMMERCIAL SALE OF CELL PHONE LOCATION DATA BECAUSE THAT IS ANOTHER PROBLEM THAT MANY PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT YOU CAN LITERALLY JUST BUY INFORMATION SHOWING WHERE SOMEBODY'S BEEN AND WHERE SOMEBODY IS IN REAL TIME EVEN WHICH IS INCREDIBLY TROUBLING. SO YES, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ,THERE ARE LOTS OF PROBLEMS RELATED TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE CORPORATE SURVEILLANCE, STATE AND LOCAL SURVEILLANCE, GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE AND FRANKLY WHAT I WOULD DESCRIBE AS SORT OF AN UNHOLY ALLIANCE AMONG THE THREE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL RELATED ANYTHING THAT'S COLLECTED ABOUT YOU BY CORPORATIONS CAN BE ACCESSED BY THE GOVERNMENT SOMETIMES PURSUANT TO A WARRANT, SOMETIMES PURSUANT TO A LOWER COURT ORDER THAT MERELY REQUIRES A SHOWING OF RELEVANCE AND MATERIALITY AND NOT PROBABLE CAUSE, WHICH IS ANOTHER PROBLEM THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS.  SO YEAH, I MEAN TO YOUR QUESTION I'M A BUSY PERSON. WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO, NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. I THINK MAYBE THE MOST HELPFUL WAY THAT I COULD ANSWER YOUR QUESTION IN TERMS OF MOVING THE BALL FORWARD HERE IN BOSTON IS TO SAY THAT AFTER 911 THERE WAS A RADICAL TRANSFORMATION HERE IN BOSTON IN EVERY CITY ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL WITH RESPECT TO HOW INFORMATION IS COLLECTED AND SHARED AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU ALL AND WITH THE ADMINISTRATION ABOUT WHY WE MIGHT NEED TO MAKE SOME CHANGES TO THOSE KIND OF OPEN BOOK SHARE EVERYTHING APPROACHES THAT WORK, COLLECT EVERYTHING AND SHARE EVERYTHING APPROACHES THAT WERE ADOPTED AFTER 911 HERE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT DONALD TRUMP MAY BECOME THE PRESIDENT AGAIN, THAT IS A REAL THREAT AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS POWERFUL. THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.  THE FBI IS A VERY POWERFUL AND YOU KNOW, VERY PROBLEMATIC INSTITUTION.  THE NSA IS EXTREMELY POWERFUL AND PROBLEMATIC.  BUT WHAT THE NSA AND THE FBI DON'T HAVE IS A WINDOW INTO EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMMUNITY IN BOSTON. THEY GET THAT THROUGH THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THEY GET THAT THROUGH OTHER POLICE DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. SO THERE ARE A VARIETY OF WAYS IN WHICH THROUGH INFORMATION SHARING AGREEMENTS, THROUGH DATABASE ACCESS AND THROUGH OPERATIONS, THROUGH TASK FORCE TASK FORCES LIKE THE JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE WHICH THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT PARTICIPATES IN, IT'S AN FBI TASK FORCE THAT YOU WOULD THINK FOCUSES ON TERRORISM BUT MANY TIMES ACTUALLY FOCUSES ON THE POLICING OF DISSENT.  THESE ARE REAL PROBLEMS.  AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE FBI HAS MAYBE 20,000, 30,000 AGENTS RIGHT THERE, A MILLION POLICE OFFICERS IN THIS COUNTRY AND SO POLICE OFFICERS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL AFTER 911 WERE TURNED INTO THE EYES AND EARS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT MIGHT NOT CONCERN YOU IF YOU THINK THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS DOING A GOOD JOB IN TERMS OF PROTECTING CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES?  YOU KNOW, I DON'T PERSONALLY BUT I THINK PROBABLY ALL OF US IN THIS ROOM WOULD AGREE THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE THE CASE FOR DONALD TRUMP TO AGAIN SEIZE CONTROL OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND DO WHAT HE HAS NAKEDLY PROMISED HE WILL DO,  WHICH IS TO POLITICIZE THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION AND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO GO AFTER HIS POLITICAL ENEMIES SO YES, WE HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS TO ADDRESS. WE ARE REALLY JUST SCRATCHING THE SURFACE HERE. BUT YOU GOT TO START SOMEWHERE . OKAY. THANK YOU. I THINK WE'VE ALL BEEN HERE A VERY LONG TIME. THANK YOU, ALEX, FOR, YOU KNOW, YOUR ATTENTION TO THESE ISSUES. I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. I'M JUST BACK TO THE CHAIR.  THANK YOU, COUNSELOR. I'D LIKE TO HAND IT OVER TO COUNSELOR FLYNN.  THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.  THANK YOU, KATE AS WELL FOR YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY.  I'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH YOU, KATE, FOR MANY YEARS AND ALWAYS ALWAYS RESPECTED YOU AND YOUR ADVOCACY . THANK YOU. SOMETIMES WE AGREE, SOMETIMES WE DISAGREE. BUT I ALWAYS THOSE I ALWAYS RESPECTED YOU, SIR. CAN I CAN I JUST ASK A QUESTION? WHY WAS IT NECESSARY TO MENTION THE NAME OF THE COMPANY AS BEING A COMPANY FROM ISRAEL? WHY WAS WHY WAS THAT IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO MENTION?  SO THERE HAS BEEN AN INTERESTING AND EXTENDED HISTORY OF PARTNERSHIPS BETWEEN U.S. POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND SURVEILLANCE SOLUTIONS SPECIALIZED IN BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT AND ISRAELI STARTUPS WITH CLOSE PARTNERSHIPS WITH THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT.  IT APPEARS TO BE SOMETHING OF A PATTERN THAT SURVEILLANCE TECHNIQUES THAT HAVE BEEN PIONEERED IN THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES TO RAISE TO A HIGH LEVEL OF SOPHISTICATION AND THEN PACKAGED AND SOLD COMMERCIALLY AND IN PARTNERSHIPS WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES AND AROUND THE WORLD. THE FIRST WE HAVE REASON AND THEN YOU THEN YOU HIGHLIGHTED OTHER ISSUES ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST. I WAS JUST KIND OF CAUGHT OFF GUARD ABOUT THAT. I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS RELEVANT TO THIS CONVERSATION AND I DON'T REALLY NECESSARILY WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT BUT I DID WANT TO ADDRESS IT BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO ADDRESS IT WHEN YOU WERE TESTIFYING. I WON'T EVEN CALL IT TESTIMONY TESTIFY AND I THINK WAS MORE OF A POLITICAL SPEECH. SO I WAS I WAS TAKEN ABACK BY BY THOSE COMMENTS AND NOW IS THE TIME TO COME TOGETHER AND AND RESPECT EACH OTHER. I DON'T THINK HAVING A DEBATE ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST POLICY IS IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THIS HEARING OR IN THE CITY AT THIS TIME. I CERTAINLY AGREE, SIR. AND THEN THEN YOU HAVE AND THEN YOU HAVE A I ON YOUR OWN A WRITTEN REPORT, A DEROGATORY PHOTO ABOUT MY NEIGHBORHOOD WHICH I WHICH I DON'T LIKE EITHER. SO I'M DISAPPOINTED IN YOUR VISUAL THAT YOU HAD IN RECOMMENDATION FIVE. I JUST WANTED WANT THAT TO BE STATED ON THE RECORD I DON'T I DON'T APPRECIATE THAT IF YOU'RE HERE TO OFFER TESTIMONY AND BE PROFESSIONAL THAT'S ONE THING. BUT IF YOU'RE HERE TO DIVIDE PEOPLE AND YOU'VE BEEN COMING HERE A LONG TIME BUT IF YOU IF YOU HAD IT JUST TO DIVIDE PEOPLE THIS IS PROBABLY NOT THE AVENUE FOR YOU TO DO IT. THERE'S A THERE'S OTHER AVENUES BUT THIS IS ABOUT BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER AND YOU'RE NOT DOING THAT.  MR CHAIR, I DON'T HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS.  THANK YOU, COUNSELOR. AND AGAIN THANK YOU TO BOTH OUR PARTNERS FOR BEING HERE. I THINK IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY SO YOU KNOW, I KNOW BOTH OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE FOR BOTH OF YOU HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED AT MULTIPLE TIMES. SO I KIND OF JUST WANT TO HONE IN ON ON SOME OF THIS. I WOULD YOU FIRST KATE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT BUT HOW DO YOU ASSESS THE BALANCE BETWEEN THE BENEFIT OF SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES AND THE POTENTIAL RISK OF CIVIL CIVIL LIBERTIES? AND AGAIN, I KNOW WE'VE TOUCHED ON THAT BUT YES, THANKS FOR THE QUESTION.  I THINK IT DEPENDS ON ON THE ON THE SPECIFIC FACTS. RIGHT. WHICH IS WHY IT'S SO CRUCIAL THAT WE ARE ALL HERE AND WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT THE CITY OF BOSTON I SHOULD SAY UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED THIS ORDINANCE HERE AT THE COUNCIL AND WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT THE FOLKS IN THE ADMINISTRATION HAVE DONE ALL THIS WORK AND YOU GUYS HAVE DONE ALL THIS WORK BECAUSE WE IT'S REALLY HARD TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION IF WE DON'T KNOW CLEAR ANSWERS TO SIMPLE QUESTIONS LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY RIGHT.  AND LET'S USE THE BOSTON PUBLIC SCHOOLS AS A GOOD EXAMPLE BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT AT A FUTURE HEARING. FORGET ABOUT BOSTON. LET'S JUST SAY SCHOOLS IN GENERAL, SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS IN SCHOOLS. THERE'S BEEN A REALLY CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE FOR YEARS NOW.  FOR SOME PEOPLE THEY MIGHT THINK OH, IT'S OBVIOUS YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY HAVE CAMERAS IN SCHOOLS. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN PREVENT SCHOOL SHOOTINGS. YOU CAN YOU KNOW THAT STUDENTS ARE SAFE. OKAY. SO IF THAT'S WHY WE WANT CAMERAS IN SCHOOLS TO ENABLE THE POLICE TO RESPOND QUICKLY TO A SCHOOL SHOOTING AND FIND OUT IS THE SHOOTER IN THE CAFETERIA? IS THE SHOOTER YOU KNOW, GOD FORBID SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN BOSTON IF THAT'S THE REASON, THEN WE OUGHT TO BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN WE'RE DETERMINING WE PLACE THE CAMERAS AND WHO CAN ACCESS THEM UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES FOR WHAT REASONS TO LIMIT THE SURVEILLANCE TO THOSE EXTRAORDINARY VERY UNLIKELY TO OCCUR EVENTS. RIGHT. IF HOWEVER, WE THINK AS A COMMUNITY YOU KNOW THE SCHOOL POLICE OUGHT TO USE SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS TO FIND OUT WHO WROTE, YOU KNOW, GRAFFITI ON A DESK SO THAT THAT STUDENT CAN BE SUSPENDED.  THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE OUGHT TO REALLY DEBATE.  YOU KNOW, IN OUR VIEW AT THE ACLU WE WOULD COUNCILOR AGAINST THAT. WHY?  BECAUSE IT CREATES AN ALMOST PRISON LIKE ENVIRONMENT IN A SCHOOL RIGHT WHERE STUDENTS DON'T FEEL SAFE TO BE THEMSELVES TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY'RE ALWAYS WORRIED THAT SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHO IS GOING TO BE WATCHING THEM AND POTENTIALLY GETTING THEM IN TROUBLE EVEN FOR ENGAGING IN KIND OF MINOR MISCONDUCT RIGHT.  SO I ONLY SAY THAT AND GIVE THAT EXAMPLE BECAUSE SURVEILLANCE IS NOT JUST ONE THING, RIGHT? IT IS MANY DIFFERENT THINGS IN MANY DIFFERENT CONTEXTS AND THAT'S WHY RULES AND DISCUSSIONS LIKE THESE ARE SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE IF WE'RE NOT ON THE SAME PAGE AS A COMMUNITY ABOUT THE PURPOSE OF THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT'S SURVEILLANCE CAMERA SYSTEM, THEN WE ARE NOT GOING TO FEEL CONFIDENT AS RESIDENTS OR AS ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT THE POLICE ARE USING THOSE CAMERAS IN A WAY THAT WOULD ALIGN WITH THE COMMUNITY'S VALUES.  RIGHT. SO I KNOW THAT'S A VERY LONG WINDED ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION ,BUT THERE'S NO SIMPLE WAY OF SAYING SURVEILLANCE GOOD SURVEILLANCE BAD. YOU KNOW, IT'S A SORT OF CLICHE IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS COMMUNITY THAT SURVEILLANCE ISN'T SAFETY AND I THINK WE KNOW THAT RIGHT . SAFETY COMES FROM MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE IN A COMMUNITY HAS WHAT THEY NEED, THAT THEY HAVE A ROOF OVER THEIR HEAD, THEY HAVE MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT IF THEY NEED IT. THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, TRAUMA TREATMENT IF THEY'VE EXPERIENCED VIOLENCE IN THEIR FAMILY THEY HAVE A JOB. THEY HAVE A SCHOOL PROGRAM THAT'S LIKE MEANINGFUL TO THEM. THAT'S WHAT ACTUALLY STOPS VIOLENCE FROM HAPPENING. RIGHT. I THINK WE ALL AGREE ABOUT THAT. THE QUESTION IS THEN WHAT IF ANY ROLE SHOULD SURVEILLANCE PLAY IN HELPING POLICE TO SOLVE CRIMES AFTER THE FACT TO APPREHEND AND YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL CRIMINAL OFFENDERS AND HOW SHOULD THEY BE USING THAT TECHNOLOGY? SHOULD THEY USE IT, FOR EXAMPLE, IN DRUG POSSESSION INVESTIGATIONS? RIGHT. I WOULD ARGUE NO. THAT'S A REALLY INVASIVE THING TO DO. SHOULD THEY USE IT TO FIND OUT WHO SHOT SOMEONE? YEAH, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE CITY OF BOSTON WOULD THINK THAT'S TOTALLY REASONABLE . SO AGAIN, IT'S NOT OUR CAMERAS BAD OUR CAMERAS GOOD.  IT'S HOW ARE THE CAMERAS BEING USED FOR WHAT PURPOSES WHAT RULES ARE IN PLACE TO ENSURE THEY'RE NOT BEING ABUSED TO FOR EXAMPLE, TRACK EVERY STUDENT WHO WALKS OUT OF SCHOOL TO PROTEST THE POLICE OR YOU KNOW, FOREIGN MILITARY ACTION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THAT'S NOT A GREAT USE FOR THE CAMERAS FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE. YOU KNOW, FINDING OUT WHERE A SCHOOL SHOOTER IS IN A HALLWAY I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD ARGUE WITH THAT. RIGHT. I HOPE THAT THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION. I KNOW IS VERY LONG WINDED. I APPRECIATE IT. I THINK IT'S A COMPLICATED QUESTION AND WHICH YOU KNOW, HENCE THE COMPLICATED ANSWER. BUT I THINK THAT'S THE THE TASK THAT WE'RE TASKED WITH THE OTHER COUNCIL IS BEING ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, REALLY DIVE DEEP INTO THESE TWO DIFFERENT PROCESSES AND SEE WHAT BEST SUITS OUR CITY.  AND AS CHAIR OF PUBLIC SAFETY I CARE ABOUT THE SAFETY OF OUR RESIDENTS SO I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT.  ALEX I THINK THIS IS JUST AND I KNOW YOU TOUCHED ON ABOUT IT IN SOME OF YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS YOU KNOW A LOT ABOUT THIS, A LOT ABOUT THE DISCUSSION THAT WE'RE HAVING TODAY AS TO HOW DO WE ENHANCE OUR TRANSPARENT AND OUR ACCOUNTABILITY AND YOUR OPINION AND YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS.  CAN YOU JUST GO YOU KNOW, HOW CAN THE CITY THE CITY OF BOSTON ENHANCE TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY REGARDING ITS USE OF SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY? AND I KNOW THAT AGAIN, YOU KNOW YOU TOUCHED ON EARLIER PRESENTATION CAN USE HONE IN ON THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE AND THEN I'LL TURN IT OVER TO YOU IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.  THANK YOU CHAIR SANTANA I WILL ENDEAVOR TO BE BRIEF.  THERE ARE BASIC AND RELATIVELY LOW LEVEL THINGS THAT CITY CAN EASILY DO TO ENHANCE TRANSPARENCY.  FOR EXAMPLE, IF BRICKS IF BRICK IS ANXIOUS TO CONVEY AN IMPRESSION THAT IT CARES REGARDING ABOUT PRIVACY AND CIVIL LIBERTIES THEN IT SHOULD PROBABLY NOT BE THE CASE AS IT WAS WHEN I CHECKED TODAY THAT WHEN YOU GO TO THE WEBSITE AND CLICK ON THE LINK TO THE PRIVACY AND CIVIL LIBERTIES POLICY THAT THE LINK WOULD BE DEAD . IT REALLY OUGHT TO BE LIVE.  THERE SHOULD BE CLEAR MECHANISMS FOR PEOPLE TO OBTAIN REDRESS IF THEY FEEL THAT THEY HAVE BEEN IMPROPERLY SURVEILLED THERE SHOULD BE IN THE COMPLAINTS MECHANISMS THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT THIS MORNING ACROSS THE CITY AND ACROSS CITY DEPARTMENTS THERE SHOULD BE A A A BETTER WAY OF DEALING WITH QUESTIONS OF WHETHER A TECHNOLOGY IS EFFECTIVE. PERSONALLY I DID NOT FIND IT ESPECIALLY USEFUL THAT CITY DEPARTMENTS WERE ASKED TO RATE THEIR OWN SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES ON A FIVE POINT SCALE OF EFFECTIVENESS SO I DON'T THINK IT TELLS US VERY MUCH. I THOUGHT THAT THE BPD EFFECTIVENESS REPORT WAS A GOOD AND AND INFORMATIVE WAY OF WEAVING TOGETHER HOW THE DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES WORK TOGETHER IN ADVANCING INVESTIGATIONS AND THAT WAS HELPFUL.  HOWEVER, BPD SHOULD ALSO BE CAREFUL NOT TO POINT CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS GENERALLY IN THE DIRECTION OF THAT REPORT WHEN THE REPORT DOESN'T ACTUALLY MENTION THE TECHNOLOGY IN QUESTION THAT HAPPENED WITH THE WIRE TEAM REPORT.  THERE IS A ROLE FOR GREATER SPECIFICITY AS WITH THE DEALING WITH PUBLIC RECORDS REQUESTS DON'T JUST SIMPLY SAY THERE'S THIS LIST OF 5000 OF THEM WHEN DEALING WITH COST YOU DON'T JUST SAY HEY CITY COUNCIL GO AND LOOK AT THE BUDGET DOCUMENTS YOURSELVES.  PULL OUT THE INFORMATION THAT PERTAINS TO THAT TECHNOLOGY AND PRESENT IT AND THEN CITY COUNCILORS WILL BE ABLE TO EVALUATE IT AND THERE WON'T BE THE SAME KIND OF OVERLOAD.  AND AS I SAY, WHEN IT COMES TO THIS PROPORTION IT IMPACTS DEPARTMENTS ARE KIND OF BAD AT ACKNOWLEDGING AND INSTEAD OF WRITING NOT APPLICABLE OR FINDING WAYS TO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION THEY SHOULD STATE WHAT THEY ARE. AS I SAY, IT'S NOT A JUDGMENT. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WILL LEAD TO PERSONAL LIABILITY BY THE PERSON WRITING THE REPORT. IT'S JUST A THING AND IT HAPPENS SOMETIMES WITH SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES AND WE ARE CAPABLE AS A CITY OF HAVING A MATURE DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW THOSE SHOULD BE ADDRESSED.  SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT AROSE I SHOULD NOTE ONE. ONE FINAL OBSERVATION WHICH RELATES TO THE POLICE BODY CAMERAS THAT THERE IS A SET OF VERY GOOD RECOMMENDED ACTIONS FROM THE LAW ENFORCEMENT BODY CAMS TASK FORCE AT THE STATE LEVEL AS TO IMPROVEMENTS THAT COULD BE MADE IN THE BODY CAMS POLICY OF POLICE DEPARTMENTS.  I GO THROUGH THIS IN DETAIL IN OUR WRITTEN TESTIMONY AND THERE ARE SEVERAL WAYS THAT BODY CAMS POLICY CAN BE IMPROVED TO BENEFIT TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. THAT'S A FORUM FOR MY QUESTIONS. I JUST WANT TO COUNCILOR WHOEVER IF YOU HAVE ANY FINAL QUESTIONS FOR OUR PANELISTS HERE AND THEN WE'LL FINISH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHAIR JUST ONE LAST QUESTION FOR FOR KEITH ,WHICH IS JUST YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE BELLWETHER THAT WE SHOULD BE USING? YOU KNOW, YOU TALKED ABOUT REASONABLENESS.  I MEAN IS IT JUST WHAT I THINK IS REASONABLE IS THE DO HAVE TO BECOME FOURTH AMENDMENT CONSTITUTIONAL LAW SCHOLARS?  YOU KNOW, LIKE HOW SHOULD WE AS A BODY BE LOOKING AT YOU KNOW, WHAT IS WHAT IS RIGHT, WHAT IS WRONG? LIKE WHERE SHOULD WE DRAW THE LINE?  YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE A DEFINITIVE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. IT'S A REALLY GOOD ONE. I KNOW THAT PEOPLE IN THE ADMINISTRATION HAD BEEN WORKING ON TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO INVOLVE MORE FOLKS ACROSS THE CITY IN THESE CONVERSATIONS. I THINK THAT COLLECTIVELY WE YOU KNOW, THOSE OF US IN THE CIVIL SOCIETY COMMUNITY WHO CARE ABOUT ISSUES, FOLKS ON THE COUNCIL WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OVERSIGHT, PEOPLE IN DO IT IN POTENTIALLY OTHER OFFICERS OF THE ADMINISTRATION OUGHT TO GET TOGETHER AND DO SOME BRAINSTORMING ABOUT WHAT WE COULD DO TO BRING MORE PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT INTO THIS PROCESS.  I THINK IT'S IT'S UP TO ALL OF US COLLECTIVELY TO DO THAT.  AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO LISTEN NOT JUST TO THE KIND OF RANDOM ANECDOTES THAT YOU HEAR FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE PARTICULARLY MOTIVATED TO SPEAK ON THESE ISSUES BUT TO HEAR FROM A BROAD SWATH OF THE PUBLIC ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY VIEW FOR EXAMPLE ,WHETHER POLICE CAMERAS OUGHT TO BE USED TO, YOU KNOW, INVESTIGATE DRUG POSSESSION OR OR OUGHT TO BE RESERVED FOR MORE SERIOUS TYPES OF VIOLENT VIOLENT CRIMES. I DON'T THINK THERE'S A SIMPLE ANSWER AND I DON'T THINK EVERYBODY'S GOING TO AGREE. BUT YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH FOLKS THAT ARE GROUNDED IN THE ACTUAL INFORMATION ABOUT HOW BPD USES THESE CAMERAS AND THEN YOU KNOW, YOU AS ELECTED OFFICIALS NEED TO MAKE A DECISION OH,  THAT'S THE BEST ANSWER I HAVE FOR YOU. I'M SORRY . OH, IT'S IT'S GOOD TO KNOW I MEAN IT'S GOOD TO KNOW. THERE DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THERE'S A SAID ANSWER. I MEAN YOU COULD ALSO JUST LISTEN TO ME . YES.  YOU SHOULD HAVE LED WITH THAT.  CHAIR THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU FOR I MEAN THERE'S A PUBLIC TESTIMONY MAYBE BUT THANK YOU FOR SHARING TO REALLY TECHNICAL JUST COMPLICATED HEARINGS AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP. THANK YOU, COUNSELOR.  I'D LIKE TO THANK AGAIN OUR PANELISTS TODAY AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THROUGH BOTH OF OUR HEARINGS. I DO WANT TO ALSO THANK BOTH COUNCIL MEMBERS AND I STAFF JORDAN AND MATTHEW WHO HAVE BEEN WORKING ON PUTTING THIS TOGETHER FOR MANY WEEKS AND MONTHS AT THIS POINT AND REALLY APPRECIATE BOTH OF YOUR EFFORTS. BUT I WANT TO I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY BY FIRST OF ALL THAT THERE IS NO PUBLIC TESTIMONY. SO I WANT TO THANK YOU GUYS AND OUR PANELISTS, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND OUR ATTENDEES AND MY COLLEAGUES FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THIS HEARING. I WANT TO EXPAND ESPECIALLY THANKS TO MY COLLEAGUES, CENTRAL STAFF AND ALL THE VARIOUS OFFICE STAFF PRESENT AND THE PANELISTS WHO JOINED US FOR BOTH HEARINGS TODAY. I TRULY APPRECIATE DEDICATION.  WITH THAT, THANK YOU AGAIN. AND THIS HEARING DOCKET OUR NUMBER 1114 IS ADJOURNED. THANK YOU ALL --------- ##VIDEO ID:nJOmKs20J50##  RON COBB. RON COBB BOSTON.COM FOR THE LINK. AND YOUR NAME WILL BE ADDED TO THE LIST. TODAY'S HEARINGS ON DOCKET NUMBER 0590. ORDER FOR A HEARING TO DISCUSS THE CITY OF BOSTON'S CURRENT INVESTMENTS. AND POLICIES FOR USING GUNSHOT DETECTION TECHNOLOGY. THIS MATTER WAS SPONSORED BY MYSELF AND COUNCILOR WEBER AND WAS REFERRED TO THE COMMITTEE ON MARCH 27, 2024.  TODAY I AM JOINED BY MY COLLEAGUES AND ORDER ARRIVAL COUNCILOR ED FLYNN FROM DISTRICT TO COUNCILOR PEPEN FROM DISTRICT FIVE AND COUNCILOR WEBER FROM DISTRICT SIX. WE ALSO RECEIVED LETTERS OF ABSENCE FROM COUNCILOR PRESIDENT LOUIJEUNE. COUNCILOR GABRIELLA CARRERA,  SUPPORTER FROM DISTRICT ONE. AND COUNCILOR SHARON DURKAN FROM DISTRICT EIGHT. I WOULD NOW LIKE TO GIVE MY COLLEAGUES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A BRIEF OPENING STATEMENT STARTING WITH COUNCILOR ED FLYNN FROM DISTRICT TWO.  THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.  I HAVE BEEN ON THE RECORD IN SUPPORT OF SHOTSPOTTER.  I BELIEVE THAT SHOTSPOTTER GUNSHOT DETECTION SOLUTION HAS AND WILL CONTINUE TO SAVE LIVES IN OUR CITY, STATE AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY.  SHOTSPOTTER SPEEDS UP OFFICE RESPONSE TIME AND PROVIDES CRITICAL DATA. CLOSING THE GAP ON UNDER REPORTING SHOOTINGS. I SUPPORT CONTINUING TO PROVIDE OUR POLICE OFFICERS WITH THIS CRITICAL TOOL TO RESPOND TO AND INVESTIGATE GUNSHOT INCIDENTS IN A MORE PRECISE AREA COMPARED TO THE 911 SYSTEM AND TO AVOID CANVASING ENTIRE BLOCKS OF NEIGHBORHOODS. SHOTSPOTTER EQUIPS OUR ENFORCEMENT PROFESSIONALS WITH MORE INFORMATION THAN THEY WOULD TYPICALLY HAVE WHEN ARRIVING AT THE SCENE OF A GUNSHOT INCIDENT ALLOWING THEM TO ARRIVE SITUATIONALLY AWARE AND SAFE. THIS TECHNOLOGY PROVIDES INTELLIGENCE THAT ALLOWS LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS TO COORDINATE THE SAFE AND EFFICIENT RESPONSE REQUIRED REQUIRING FEWER RESOURCES AND CONDUCTED IN A MANNER THAT ENHANCES COMMUNITY TRUST AND PUBLIC SAFETY. SHOTSPOTTER IS MAKING THE CITY OF BOSTON SAFER. IT IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE CONTINUE THIS EXCEPTIONAL TECHNOLOGY.  THIS TECHNOLOGY IS WORKING EFFECTIVELY AND IT SHOULD BE EXPANDED THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF BOSTON. THANK YOU.  THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN. AND I'LL TURN IT OVER FOR MY COLLEAGUE COUNCILOR PEMBERTON FROM DISTRICT FIVE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. AND GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE AND FOR TESTIFYING AND I WAS ABLE TO GET A TOUR OF OF THE BREAK AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF MY TENURE HERE IN OFFICE WAS ABLE TO LEARN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ABOUT THE BRAKE AND HOW SHOTSPOTTER WORKS.  I'M INTERESTED TO CONTINUE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY ALSO CONTINUING TO LEARN ABOUT THE RESPONSE OF BPD AS TO WHAT TRIGGERS A SHOTSPOTTER CALL.  SO THAT'S WHY I'M HERE. I WANT TO LEARN MORE INTERESTING TO TO ASK QUESTIONS THROUGHOUT THE HEARING AND WAITING TO HEAR WHAT YOU WILL HAVE TO SAY.  BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING MEJIA. CHAIR THANK YOU COUNCILOR PEPPER AND I'LL TURN IT OVER TO MY CO-SPONSOR MY COLLEAGUE COUNCILOR BEN WEBER FROM DISTRICT. SO I JUST.  OKAY. HI. THANK YOU. CHAIR THANK YOU TO THE PANELISTS. YOU KNOW, I THINK SHOTSPOTTER YOU KNOW, AS AN IDEA IS SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN SUPPORT. YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO KNOW WHEN THERE'S GUNSHOTS.  WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY COME FROM. WE WANT TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW ,WHO'S FIRING GUNS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND WE WANT OUR POLICE OFFICERS WHEN RESPONDING TO THE SCENE OF A SHOOTING TO BE PREPARED AND TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. BUT THERE'S YOU KNOW, THERE IS A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER SHOTSPOTTER IS SENDING POLICE OFFICERS IN TO LOCATIONS WHERE THERE HASN'T BEEN A SHOT FIRED AND THEY'RE PREPARED FOR GUN VIOLENCE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO TO TALK TO TWO MEMBERS OF THE PANEL.  AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE CAN HEAR THE DATA THAT SUPPORTS USING THIS YOU KNOW, A BUNCH OF OTHER CITIES IN THE COUNTRY HAVE LOOKED AT THIS AND THE DATA FRANKLY IS UM ISN'T GREAT FOR SHOTSPOTTER I THINK NEW YORK THEY THE NEW YORK CITY COMPTROLLER FOUND THAT ONLY 13% OF THE RESPONSES COULD RESULT IN A CONFIRM FIRING OF A SHOT AND CHICAGO IS EVEN LESS I THINK IT WAS ABOUT 9% BUT MAYBE I'M WRONG ABOUT THAT. AND SO FOR ME I MEAN THIS GOES BACK TO 1999 FOR ME I WAS I WAS A YOUNGER PERSON. I WAS WORKING AS AN AG CLERK DOING BOX SCORES OF THE NEW YORK POST AND THE NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT'S STREET CRIMES UNIT RESPONDED OR WENT TO DO A STOP OF A PERSON WHOSE NAME IS AMADOU DIALLO. THEY HE WENT TO REMOVE HIS WALLET. ONE OFFICER THOUGHT IT WAS A GUN HE FIRED. THERE WERE FOUR OFFICERS THERE. AS HE FIRED HE FELL DOWN.  THE OTHER THREE OFFICERS ASSUMED HE HE HAD BEEN SHOT AND THEY THEY SHOT THEY FIRED 41 BULLETS AT AMADOU DIALLO WHO WAS KILLED. AND PART OF THE WHAT CAME OUT OF THE INVESTIGATION WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE STREET CRIMES UNIT WAS GOING INTO NEIGHBORHOODS THIS IN THAT CASE IN THE BRONX AS SORT OF , YOU KNOW, LOOKING SORT OF LIKE A PARAMILITARY UNIT LOOKING TO DO COMBAT WITH THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY AND IT, YOU KNOW, CREATED THIS SORT OF HYPER AWARENESS OR YOU KNOW, HYPERSENSITIVITY TO WHAT WAS GOING ON, HOW THEY INTERACTED WITH WITH RESIDENTS. SO WHEN WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW, A SYSTEM THAT'S CREATING FALSE ALARMS AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHETHER IT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING OR NOT AND TO WHAT EXTENT IT'S HAPPENING, YOU KNOW, IT'S I THINK IT'S A LEGITIMATE CONCERN FOR FOR FOLKS WHO ARE GOING TO BE ON THE RECEIVING END OF OF OF THOSE OF THOSE ALARMS AND HAVING TO DEAL, YOU KNOW, WITH THE POLICE RESPONSE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU KNOW, WE ALL WANT TO HAVE A POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT IS, YOU KNOW, SORT OF HELPING OUR COMMUNITIES BE SAFER AND BEING PART OF OUR COMMUNITIES ALL ACROSS THE CITY AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS A PART OF THAT PROCESS TO MAKE SURE, YOU KNOW ,OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT IS SERVING OUR RESIDENTS. THANK YOU.  TRUE. THANK YOU. COUNCILOR WEBER, I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE WE'VE BEEN JOINED BY COUNCILOR FITZGERALD FROM DISTRICT THREE. WE WANT TO MAKE A BRIEF OPENING REMARK. YEAH, SURE. THANK YOU, CHAIR AND THANK YOU PANEL FOR BEING HERE TODAY. I'M IN SUPPORT OF THE GUNSHOT DETECTION TECHNOLOGY. I THINK IT IS A TOOL THAT PROVIDES VALUABLE DATA TO US AND I'D RATHER BE OVERCAUTIOUS AND HAVE RESPONSE TO MORE THINGS THAN THAN NOT SHOWING UP TO A POTENTIAL GUNSHOT. HOWEVER, I WOULD LIKE TO IT AND THIS MIGHT BE IN THE SECOND HEARING THAT WE HAVE LATER ON BUT I THINK A MORE IMPORTANT CONVERSATION TO HAVE IS IF WE CAN GET TO AGREE THAT THE TOOL PROVIDES DATA THAT IS USEFUL. I THINK IT'S HOW ARE WE USING THAT DATA TO INFORM US OF OTHER THINGS THAT WE CAN DO FOR THIS COMMUNITY AND OTHER RESOURCES WE CAN WE CAN PUT TO THEM SO THAT THEY THAT THOSE GUNSHOTS DON'T GO OFF THERE RIGHT.  AND I KNOW I'VE HAD THAT CONVERSATION WITH SOME OF MY OTHER FELLOW COUNCILORS ABOUT THIS AND HOW TO USE THIS IN TERMS OF MITIGATING THE IMPACT OF A RESPONSE TO COMMUNITY COUNCIL MEMBERS TALKING ABOUT THAT FEELING OF OH BOY, THEY'RE ALL COMING IN AT ONCE AND WHY IF THERE WASN'T EVEN A GUNSHOT. BUT I THINK MORE IMPORTANTLY IT TELLS US WHERE WE NEED TO WHERE WE NEED TO DIRECT OUR RESOURCES AS A CITY COUNCIL AND DIRECT OUR DEPARTMENTS SO THAT THOSE ISSUES DON'T HAPPEN. AND THAT'S THE CONVERSATION I THINK WE WOULD PREFER TO HAVE AROUND THIS AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THOSE CONVERSATIONS. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE. THANKS, JOE. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR . I'D JUST LIKE TO ALSO TO ASK FOLKS IN THE CHAMBER TO PLEASE SILENCE YOUR PHONES AND DEVICES AND YOU KNOW, BEFORE WE BEGIN WITH OUR PANELISTS, I'D LIKE TO GIVE A LITTLE PERSPECTIVE AS CHAIR ON THE COMMITTEE'S INTENTION AND GOALS FOR THIS HEARING.  I'D ALSO LIKE TO MENTION THAT I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY WITH SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES SO ALSO TO THE FACILITIES AND MEET SOME OF YOU ALL EARLIER THIS YEAR AND WAS VERY THANKFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.  I WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT THERE IS NO PROPOSED ACTION UNDER DISCUSSION TODAY BUT TODAY'S DISCUSSION OF LEAD TO A FUTURE COMMITTEE OR COUNCIL ACTION AND ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES COUNCIL COLLEAGUES ARE ALWAYS FREE TO FILE LEGISLATION OR INITIATIVE OR OTHER ACTIONS. TODAY'S HEARING IS NOT INTENDED TO LEAD TO A VOTE ON A PARTICULAR RECOMMENDATION RELATIVE TO GUNSHOT DETECTION TECHNOLOGY IN BOSTON. INSTEAD, TODAY'S HEARING IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL OF US TO AS COUNCILORS INCLUDING MYSELF AS WELL AS MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TO LEARN ABOUT THIS TECHNOLOGY, REVIEW ITS USAGE IN BOSTON, DISCUSS THE RESULTS OF ACADEMIC STUDIES BY MULTIPLE EXPERTS INCLUDING SOME HERE WITH US TODAY AND HEAR PERSPECTIVES FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS AS WELL AS SOME LOCAL BOSTON CIVIL LIBERTIES EXPERTS AND ADVOCATES. I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE AS WELL THAT THE COMMITTEE HAS RECEIVED FEEDBACK THAT A HEARING SCHEDULED ON WEDNESDAY ON A WEDNESDAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER IS CHALLENGING TIMING FOR MANY COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND ADVOCATES. THIS IS MADE WORSE BY TODAY BEING THE LAST DAY OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE AS FORMER SESSION,  MANY ADVOCATES ARE ENGAGED IN THAT PROCESS AS CRITICAL BUDGET AND LEGISLATIVE DECISIONS ARE BEING FINALIZED. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT LIMITED PARTICIPATION BY ADVOCATES TODAY IS NOT AN INDICATION IS AN INDICATION OF LIMITED LIMITED INTEREST BUT SIMPLY A MATTER OF TIMING. AS CHAIR, I HAD HOPED TO HOLD THIS HEARING EARLIER IN THE YEAR BUT THIS IS THE DATE THAT WAS FEASIBLE BASED ON THE AVAILABILITY OF THE INFORMATION AND PANELISTS FROM THE ADMINISTRATION. I'M GRATEFUL TO EVERYONE WHO IS PARTICIPATING IN TODAY'S HEARING. TODAY'S HEARING IS PART OF A LARGER PROCESS FOR THE CITY COUNCIL'S OVERSIGHT OF SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. AS I SAY, RELEVANCY THAT IS OPERATED BY THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE CITY'S USAGE OF GUNSHOT DETECTION TECHNOLOGY IS GOVERNED BY THE CITY OF BOSTON SURVEILLANCE OVERSIGHT AND INFORMATION SHARING ORDINANCE.  THAT ORDINANCE WAS ADOPTED IN 2021 WITH UNANIMOUS CITY COUNCIL SUPPORT.  SOME OF THE COUNCILORS WHO WORKED ON THAT ORDINANCE ARE STILL ON THE ON THE COUNCIL . SO I'D LIKE TO THINK TO EXTEND MY THANKS FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP. THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES CITY DEPARTMENTS UTILIZING SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY TO PUBLISH A SURVEILLANCE USE POLICY FOR EACH TECHNOLOGY THEY UTILIZE AS WELL AS THE ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORT THAT DETAILS ACTUAL USAGE IN THE PRIOR YEAR. THE ORDINANCE ALSO ESTABLISH A FIVE MEMBER SURVEILLANCE OVERSIGHT ADVISORY BOARD AND EMPOWERS THE CITY COUNCIL TO REVIEW AND APPROVE SURVEILLANCE USE POLICIES. THE ORDINANCE I ALL THE ORDINANCE ALSO TASKED THE CITY COUNCIL WITH REVIEWING AND I QUOTE WHETHER THE BENEFITS TO THE IMPACTED CITY DEPARTMENTS AND THE COMMUNITY OF THIS HAVE BEEN IN PSYCHOLOGY OUTWEIGH THE FINANCIAL AND THE OPERATIONAL COSTS AND WHETHER REASONABLE SAFEGUARDS EXIST TO ADDRESS REASONABLE CONCERNS REGARDING PRIVACY, CIVIL LIBERTIES AND CIVIL RIGHTS IMPACTED BY THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY AND QUOTE TOWARDS THAT GOAL. AS CHAIR I INTEND TO HOLD A SERIES OF HEARINGS RELATED TO THE 2023 ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORTS TO DISCUSS THE VARIOUS SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES COVERED BY THE ORDINANCE. WE HAVE A SECOND HEARING THIS AFTERNOON THAT WILL COVER THE REPORTING PROCESS AND REPORT CONTENTS MORE BROADLY INCLUDING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR COUNCILORS TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY OF THE TECHNOLOGIES COVERED IN THE REPORT AND IDENTIFY ANY ITEMS THEY'D LIKE TO DISCUSS FURTHER AND MORE SPECIFIC HEARING LIKE WE'RE DOING FOR GUNSHOT DETECTION TECHNOLOGY THIS MORNING. I'LL SPEAK MORE ABOUT THE COMMITTEE'S PLANNING PROCESS MORE DURING THE AFTERNOON'S HEARING. FOR NOW I JUST WANT TO SHARE THAT THE COMMITTEE WILL ULTIMATELY BE CREATING A COMMITTEE REPORT WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF CENTRAL STAFF. MY OFFICE AND THE CO-SPONSORS ON ANY ON ANY HEARINGS RELATED TO THE 2023 ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORT INCLUDING THIS ONE AND THIS AFTERNOON'S. AGAIN, THAT REPORT WILL NOT BE INTENDED TO MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS OR COME TO A VOTE.  RATHER IT IS INTENDED TO AS IT INTENDED TO DOCUMENT THE INFORMATION DISCUSSED AND RAISED TO THE COMMITTEE THROUGH THE VARIOUS DISCUSSIONS TO BE VERY CLEAR AGAIN. COUNCILORS ARE AS ALWAYS AT LIBERTY TO FILE THEIR OWN LEGISLATION OR TAKE LEADERSHIP ON ANY ACTION AT ANY POINT. THIS PROCESS IS MEANT TO BE A RESOURCE, NOT A RESTRICTION IN ANY WAY AND YOU HAVE MY COMMITMENT THAT IF ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES FILE ANY LEGISLATION THAT IS ASSIGNED TO THE COMMITTEE FOR WHICH I SERVE AS CHAIR, I WILL WORK TO SCHEDULE THAT HEARING AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT ANY DELAY AS THE COMMITTEE MOVES THROUGH THIS PROCESS. WITH THAT I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER THE FLOOR TO THE CO-SPONSORS FOR THIS HEARING FOR OPENING REMARKS IF DESIRED AND THEN WE'LL INTRODUCE AND HEAR FROM OUR PANELISTS AND THEN OPEN DISCUSSION FOR ALL MY COLLEAGUES TO I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE OUR PANELISTS.  THE COMMITTEE INVITED FROM SOME THINKING THE COMPANY THAT PROVIDES THE EQUIPMENT AND SOFTWARE FOR THE CITY OF BOSTON'S GUN SHOT DETECTION TECHNOLOGY. THOMAS SAID I'M SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF FORENSICS SERVICES FROM THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT WHICH OVERSEES AND UTILIZES THIS TECHNOLOGY.  LUIS CRUZ, WHO IS THE SUPERINTENDENT BUREAU OF INTELLIGENCE AND ANALYSIS. PAUL MCGLOTHLIN DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT . BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIVE SERVICES. JOHN BROWN DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT . ZONE THREE PATROL DIVISION COMMANDER.  BUREAU OF FIELD SERVICES. RYAN WALSH DIRECTOR BOSTON REGIONAL INTELLIGENCE CENTER. AND CAPTAIN TIMOTHY CONNOLLY. WELCOME AND THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. HAVE YOU OR ANY OF YOU LIKE TO DO ANY OPENING REMARKS OR STATEMENTS?  I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY GOOD MORNING TO THE COMMITTEE CHAIR SANTANA COUNCILORS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE. I AM SUPERINTENDENT LUIS CRUZ.  I'M THE CHIEF OF THE BUREAU OF INTELLIGENCE AND ANALYSIS AT THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. WITH ME TODAY ARE RYAN WALSH WHO'S THE DIRECTOR OF THE BOSTON POLICE BOSTON REGIONAL INTELLIGENCE CENTER AT THE BASE POLICE DEPARTMENT ALSO KNOWN AS THE BRICK. ALSO HERE IS DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT PAUL MCLAUGHLIN FROM THE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIVE SERVICES.  WE HAVE A BRIEF PRESENTATION THIS MORNING THAT WILL DEMONSTRATE HOW SHOTS FIRED A GUN DETECTION TECHNOLOGY IS DEPLOYED BY THE DEPARTMENT TO RESPOND TO SHOOTING INCIDENTS. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OTHER DEPARTMENT REPRESENTATIVES IN THE HONORS WHO MAY ALSO ASSIST WHEN ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS FOLLOWING THE PRESENTATION. WE WELCOME THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS HOW THE BOSS POLICE DEPARTMENT IS USING SHOTSPOTTER IN SUPPORT OF PUBLIC SAFETY IN THE CITY OF BOSTON.  SHOTSPOTTER IS A KEY PIECE OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY THAT HAS CONTRIBUTED TO REDUCTION OF VIOLENCE, CRIME BY DIRECTING A FASTER POLICE RESPONSE TO LOCATE AND AID VICTIMS, APPREHEND OFFENDERS, IDENTIFY CRIME SCENES AND LOCATE EVIDENCE THAT IS CRITICAL TO INVESTIGATIONS. THIS TECHNOLOGY IS ONE OF MANY PARTS OF A CITY STRATEGY THAT HAS HAD SIGNIFICANT SUCCESS REDUCING FIREARM VIOLENCE IN BOSTON AND AS A RESULT OF A MULTIFACETED PARTNERSHIP BASED ON COMMUNITY POLICING APPROACHES.  THANK YOU.  GOOD MORNING. I'M THOMAS CHATHAM, THE SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT FORENSIC SERVICES AT SOUND THINKING AND SOUND THINKING. WE BELIEVE THAT THE DECISION TO USE POLICE TECHNOLOGY SHOULD HAVE DEMOCRATIC APPROVAL BASED ON PUBLIC INFORMATION ABOUT ITS POTENTIAL BENEFITS AND HARMS AND THE PROCESS SHOULD INCLUDE THE COMMUNITIES MOST LIKELY IMPACTED BY IT. THAT'S WHY OUR CEO AND OTHER EMPLOYEES REGULARLY APPEAR AT MEETINGS LIKE THIS ONE. IT IS WHY WE FREELY ENGAGE WITH THE MEDIA EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CRITICAL OF US.  IT IS WHY ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION I HAVE PERSONALLY INVITED OUR HARSHEST CRITICS TO VISIT OUR OFFICE, ASK QUESTIONS AND SEE HOW OUR TECHNOLOGY WORKS. AND IT'S WHY I AM HAPPY TO BE APPEARING BEFORE YOU TODAY. I EXTEND THE SAME INVITATION TO EACH OF YOU TO VISIT OUR INCIDENT REFUSE IT CENTER IN 2022. I RETIRED FROM A CAREER AT THE BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES OR ATF AFTER ABOUT A QUARTER CENTURY OF FIGHTING GUN CRIME AS A FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. I CAME TO WORK FOR THIS COMPANY BECAUSE I SAW INCREDIBLE POTENTIAL AND ITS TECHNOLOGY TO SAVE LIVES, IMPROVE POLICING AND MAKE AMERICA SAFER. NOW AFTER SEEING BEHIND THE CURTAIN FOR MORE THAN TWO YEARS, I AM MORE CONVINCED THAN EVER THAT IS TRUE. IN A MOMENT I'LL EXPLAIN HOW OUR TECHNOLOGY WORKS AND HOW IT BENEFITS THE COMMUNITIES WHERE IT'S USED. BUT FIRST I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE INCREDIBLE CHALLENGES THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT FACES IN ADDRESSING GUN VIOLENCE WITHOUT SHOTSPOTTER. WE KNOW FROM RESEARCH THAT MOST GUNFIRE DOES NOT RESULT IN A CALL TO 911. THIS CHRONIC UNDER-REPORTING IS BECAUSE MANY COMMUNITIES HAVE GROWN NUMB TO THE SOUND OF GUNFIRE. THEY HAVE RESIGNED THEMSELVES TO LIVING WITH IT OR THEY FEAR RETALIATION IF THEY COOPERATE WITH POLICE OR THEY THINK THAT SOMEONE ELSE WILL CALL BUT NO ONE ELSE DOES. THAT MEANS POLICE DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT MANY SHOOTINGS GUNSHOT WOUND VICTIMS MAY NOT RECEIVE THE IMMEDIATE AID THAT THEY NEED.  EVIDENCE THAT COULD HELP SECURE JUSTICE FOR VICTIMS IS LOST.  AND OPPORTUNITIES TO CATCH SHOOTERS BEFORE THEY SHOOT AGAIN ARE MISSED WHEN POLICE DON'T RESPOND TO THESE SHOOTINGS THAT THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT. PEOPLE ASSUME IT'S BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE THE POLICE HAVE GIVEN UP ON THEM AND THEY START TO LOSE HOPE AND TRUST.  ON THOSE OCCASIONS WHEN SOMEONE ACTUALLY DOES CALL 911 THERE'S USUALLY A DELAY OF SEVERAL MINUTES. PRECIOUS TIME IS LOST. YOUR AVERAGE 911 CALLER IS NOT TRAINED TO DISTINGUISH THE SOUND OF GUNFIRE FROM THINGS LIKE FIREWORKS LEADING TO FALSE ALARMS. THEY CAN PROVIDE ONLY GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT THEY THINK THEY HEARD.  THEY DO NOT HAVE AN AUDIO RECORDING TO LISTEN TO AGAIN OR LET POLICE LISTEN TO.  THEY USUALLY DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THE SOUND CAME FROM SOMEWHERE.  AND SO POLICE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO SWARM THE AREA WITH OFFICERS BLINDLY SEARCHING FOR VICTIMS OR SHOOTERS OR EVIDENCE. AND THIS HEAVY INDISCRIMINATE PATROL MAY LEAD TO PERCEPTIONS OF OVERPOLICING.  SHOTSPOTTER OFFERS A BETTER WAY. IT SEEMS NEWFANGLED BUT IT ISN'T. IT IS SOPHISTICATED TECHNOLOGY TO BE SURE. BUT THE CONCEPT ISN'T COMPLICATED.  ACOUSTIC SENSORS ARE DEPLOYED IN PLACES IDENTIFIED BY POLICE AS SUFFERING THE HIGHEST RATES OF GUN CRIME AND VICTIMIZATION IN MEASURED BY OBJECTIVE HISTORICAL DATA. ONCE DEPLOYED, OUR SENSORS DETECT LOUD IMPULSIVE NOISES LIKE GUNFIRE AND LOCATE THEM USING WELL-KNOWN SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLES. SOUND TRAVELS AT A KNOWN SPEED AND CAN AND BY CALCULATING THE TIME DIFFERENCE OF ITS ARRIVAL AT MULTIPLE SENSORS ITS ORIGIN CAN BE DETERMINED.  IT IS NOT SECRETIVE, UNTESTED TECHNOLOGY TO SIMPLY MATH AND SCIENCE. WHEN OUR SYSTEM DETECTS A LOUD IMPULSIVE NOISE AN ALGORITHM FILTERS OUT SOUNDS THAT ARE NOT LIKELY GUNFIRE AND TRANSMITS THOSE THAT ARE CHARACTERISTIC OF GUNFIRE TO A TRAINED, TRAINED HUMAN REVIEWER WHO ANALYZES THE SOUNDS, STUDIES VISUAL WAVEFORMS AND EXAMINES OTHER DATA TO CONFIRM THAT THE SOUND IS IN FACT GUNFIRE.  ONLY THEN DO WE NOTIFY POLICE OF THE EVENT AND THAT ENTIRE PROCESS TAKES LESS THAN 60 SECONDS. SHOTSPOTTER CAN TELL POLICE THE WHAT, WHEN AND WHERE.  IT CANNOT TELL THEM THE WHO. IT IDENTIFIES AND LOCATES THE SOUND OF GUNFIRE DOES NOT IDENTIFY PEOPLE. THAT REQUIRES INVESTIGATION.  WHEN WE NOTIFY POLICE OF A SHOOTING WE SHARE THE LOCATION WITHIN 25 METERS AND SEND THEM AUDIO CLIPS SO THEY CAN LISTEN TO THE GUNFIRE FOR THEMSELVES. WE'RE OFTEN ABLE TO PROVIDE IMPORTANT TACTICAL INTELLIGENCE LIKE WHETHER A SHOOTING INVOLVED A HIGH NUMBER OF ROUNDS OR A MACHINE GUN OR A MOVING SHOOTER SUCH AS IN A DRIVE BY. ALL THIS INFORMATION ALLOWS POLICE TO RESPOND QUICKLY AND PRECISELY TO RENDER AID TO VICTIMS, TO COLLECT VALUABLE BALLISTIC EVIDENCE TO ARREST SHOOTERS AND TO SEIZE CRIME GUNS. BUT THESE BENEFITS ARE NOT THEORETICAL.  ON MONDAY, SHOTSPOTTER ALERTED POLICE TO A SHOOTING IN JAMAICA PLAIN THAT LEFT A MAN BADLY WOUNDED. THEY RESPONDED QUICKLY AND LOCATED THE VICTIM. THEY ALSO ARRESTED THE SUSPECT FLEEING THE SCENE ON A SCOOTER AND THEY RECOVERED A FIREARM DISCARDED ALONG HIS PATH. THIS IS NOT AN ISOLATED EXAMPLE. BOSTON RECENTLY RELEASED A REPORT THAT DESCRIBES NUMEROUS CASES IN JUST THE LAST YEAR WHERE SHOTSPOTTER HELPED POLICE DO THOSE THINGS. EVEN THOUGH THE SHOOTINGS DESCRIBED IN THAT REPORT OCCURRED IN A DENSELY POPULATED URBAN AREA, MANY WENT UNREPORTED TO POLICE THROUGH 911 SHOTS BLOTTER WAS THE ONLY WAY POLICE LEARNED OF SOME OF THEM.  EVEN WHEN THERE ARE WOUNDED VICTIMS. SHOTSPOTTER ALSO HELPS THE SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HOLD OFFENDERS ACCOUNTABLE IN COURT. LAST WEEK THE MASSACHUSETTS APPEALS COURT ONCE AGAIN UPHELD THE USE OF SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS AS ONE FACTOR IN ASSESSING THE REASONABLE SUSPICION THAT THE CONSTITUTION SAYS POLICE MUST HAVE TO DETAIN A SUSPECT OR PAT HIM DOWN.  AND RESULTS LIKE THESE ARE BEING REALIZED IN OTHER CITIES HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS AND ACROSS THE NATION. IF YOU READ HEADLINES AND YOU REMOVE FROM THEM THOSE THAT ONLY CONTAIN OPINIONS YOU WILL SEE EXAMPLE AFTER EXAMPLE OF SHOTSPOTTER LEADING POLICE TO VICTIMS OFFENDERS AND EVIDENCE.  WE AREN'T JUST GETTING LUCKY THIS TECHNOLOGY REALLY WORKS. IS SHOTSPOTTER PERFECT? NO.  I DO NOT KNOW ANY TECHNOLOGY THAT IS BUT IS IT VERY GOOD?  YES. INCREDIBLE. RESEARCHERS WILL TELL YOU THAT SHOTSPOTTER DOES WHAT IT SAYS IT WILL DO. IT NOTIFIES POLICE OF MORE SHOOTINGS FASTER WITH GREATER PRECISION THAN 911 AND LEADS THEM TO MORE EVIDENCE. BUT THEY MUST TAKE IT FROM THEIR SHOTSPOTTER IS ONLY A TOOL BUT IT IS MOST EFFECTIVE WHEN USED AS PART OF A COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGY AND COMBINED WITH OTHER TOOLS.  SOME CRITICS HAVE RAISED CONCERNS ABOUT SHOTSPOTTER. THEY WONDER FOR INSTANCE IF IT MISTAKES LOUD NOISES LIKE CAR BACKFIRES FOR GUNFIRE.  BUT SHOTSPOTTER IS TECHNOLOGY AND ITS PROCESSES HAVE BEEN REFINED OVER NEARLY THREE DECADES AND USING FEEDBACK FROM MORE THAN 170 CUSTOMERS ACROSS MANY YEARS AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ALERTS, WE KNOW THAT IT MAINTAINS AN EXTREMELY HIGH ACCURACY RATE AND MAKES FEW MISTAKES. LAW ENFORCEMENT KNOWS IT'S A RELIABLE TOOL AND THEY DEPEND ON IT. SOME MISTAKENLY BELIEVE SHOTSPOTTER IS ONLY FOR HELPING MAKE ARRESTS AND AS I'VE DESCRIBED WHILE SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS OFTEN DO RESULT IN ARRESTS WHO COMMIT GUN CRIMES. THAT ISN'T ITS HIGHEST PURPOSE . ITS BEST USE IS SAVING LIVES. NOW THERE ARE A SMALL NUMBER OF VOCAL CRITICS WHO ACTIVELY OPPOSE THE USE OF SHOTSPOTTER.  I AM SHOCKED BY THIS WHO DOESN'T WANT POLICE TO RESPOND TO TO KNOW ABOUT SHOOTINGS? A RECENT REPORT FROM NEW YORK FOUND THAT CONTRARY TO ANTI-POLICE RHETORIC OF SOME RESIDENTS IN PLACES PLAGUED BY GUN VIOLENCE OVERWHELMINGLY SAID THEY WERE OFTEN RELIEVED TO SEE POLICE OFFICERS ON THE BLOCK. BUT I BELIEVE REASONABLE PEOPLE CAN DISAGREE. STILL, MANY OF THE CLAIMS THESE CRITICS MAKE ARE EITHER BASED ON MISUNDERSTANDINGS OR ARE INTENTIONALLY MISLEADING. FOR INSTANCE, THEY SAY THAT SHOTSPOTTER DOES NOT REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE BUT NO SINGLE TOOL CAN DO THAT. BY THAT MEASURE WE'D ALSO GET RID OF MANY OTHER TOOLS WHEN CRIME RATES DON'T FALL. BUT PERHAPS THAT IS THEIR GOAL. GUN VIOLENCE IS A COMPLEX SOCIAL ISSUE AND ADDRESSING IT TAKES A COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH. SHOTSPOTTER PLAYS A CRUCIAL ROLE IN THAT.  THEY CLAIM THAT MANY CITIES ARE CANCELING SHOTSPOTTER BY HIGHLIGHTING A HANDFUL OF CUSTOMERS LITERALLY A NUMBER I CAN COUNT ON MY FINGERS THAT HAVE DISCONTINUED SERVICE OVER THE LAST DECADE. THEY DON'T HIGHLIGHT THE MORE THAN 170 CUSTOMERS WHO DEPEND ON IT. AND INDEED IN THE LAST YEAR ALONE MORE CUSTOMERS HAVE EXPANDED THEIR COVERAGE AREA THAN CUSTOMERS WHO HAVE DISCONTINUED SERVICE OVER THE COMPANY'S ENTIRE EXISTENCE.  THEY POINT TO A FEW ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO OPPOSE SHOTSPOTTER RATHER THAN THE MANY WHO VOCALLY SUPPORT IT. AND THESE CRITICS ALSO FOCUS ON ARRESTS AND OVERLOOK THE LIVES SHOTSPOTTER CAN SAVE.  AND I WORRY THAT THE CAMPAIGN TO CANCEL SHOTSPOTTER WILL COST LIVES IN THE COMMUNITIES HIT HARDEST BY GUN VIOLENCE. BECAUSE WE KNOW FROM THE EXPERIENCE OF OUR CUSTOMERS AND TESTIMONIALS FROM SOME VICTIMS THEMSELVES THAT SHOTSPOTTER HAS HELPED LOCATE HUNDREDS OF GUNSHOT WOUND VICTIMS WHEN NO ONE CALLED 911. SOMETIMES THEY PRESENT A FALSE CHOICE BETWEEN SHOTSPOTTER AND OTHER TOOLS OR OUTCOMES THAT YOU CAN HAVE SHOTSPOTTER OR CIVIL LIBERTY. SHOTSPOTTER OR COMMUNITY RESOURCES SHOTSPOTTER OR ADEQUATE POLICE STAFFING.  THAT IS NONSENSE. CREATING PUBLIC SAFETY ISN'T AN EITHER OR. IT ISN'T. AND ALSO SHOTSPOTTER IS SIMPLY ONE TOOL THAT IS MOST EFFECTIVE WHEN IT'S USED WITH OTHER TOOLS THAT CAN HELP OUR MAKE OUR COMMUNITIES SAFER. AND EVERY TOOL HELPS. SO DOES SHOTSPOTTER MAKE A DIFFERENCE? ABSOLUTELY. IT HELPS POLICE SAVE LIVES,  SOLVE CRIMES AND BUILD SAFER COMMUNITIES. I AM GRATEFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPEAR BEFORE YOU AND I LOOK FORWARD TO ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.  GREAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE AT THIS TIME THAT WE HAVE BEEN JOINED BY COUNCILOR BRIAN MONROE WHO IS ALSO THE VICE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE AND ALSO MY COLLEAGUE FROM DISTRICT SEVEN, COUNCILOR TANIA FERNANDEZ ANDERSON.  THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.  I JUST WANT TO SHARE INFORMATION ON THE ADDITIONAL PANELISTS THAT THE COMMITTEE INVITED AND ACKNOWLEDGE SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE WITH US TODAY FROM THE WALTHAM POLICE DEPARTMENT CAPTAIN TIMOTHY CONNELLY, CAPTAIN COLLEEN AAGAARD AND DID NOT RESPOND TO THE COMMITTEE'S INVITATION AND I BELIEVE COPS EAGERLY IS IN ATTENDANCE. I ALSO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT SUPERINTENDENT PICCOLO IS HERE WITH US TODAY IN THE AUDIENCE IN CASE THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS HE CAN ADDRESS. IT'S GOOD TO BE WITH YOU TODAY, SIR.  THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING FROM THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT WHICH MANAGES THE CONTRACT AND PROCUREMENT FOR THE PORTION OF THE CITY'S USE OF THIS TECHNOLOGY THAT IS COVERED BY THE FEDERAL HOMELAND SECURITY URBAN AREA SECURITY INITIATIVE GRANT PROGRAM AS WELL AS THE USE OF THIS TECHNOLOGY UNDER THE GRANT AND THE EIGHT JURISDICTIONS IN THE METRO BOSTON HOMELAND SECURITY REGION WHICH INCLUDES BROOKLINE, CAMBRIDGE, SOUTH CHELSEA, EVERETT, QUINCY REVERE, SOMERVILLE AND WINTHROP . WE'VE INVITED THEM FROM THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ADRIAN JORDAN WHO CHIEF AND ANDREW BILL NICE ACCESS AND DEPUTY CHIEF OF ADMINISTRATION BOTH PANELISTS FROM OEM ARE HERE WITH US IN THE AUDIENCE AND AVAILABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AS NEEDED. THEY WILL ALSO BE JOINING US FOR THIS AFTERNOON'S HEARING ON THE 2023 AND NO SURVEILLANCE REPORTS AND FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY WHICH CREATES, PUBLISHES AND HELPS ANALYZE DATA HELPFUL FOR THIS DISCUSSION AND WHICH HAS HELPED GUIDE DEPARTMENTS ON COMPLETING THEIR 2023 ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORTS. THE COMMITTEE HAS INVITED CHIEF OF INFORMATION OFFICER SANTIAGO GARCéS. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT CHIEF GARCES IS WITH US THIS MORNING BUT WILL BE JOINING US FOR THIS AFTERNOON'S HEARING.  THE COMMITTEE HAS ALSO INVITED TWO RESEARCHERS WHO HAVE CONDUCTED EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATIONS ON A VARIETY OF ASPECTS OF GUNSHOT DETECTION TECHNOLOGY IN SEVERAL CITIES. DR. ERIC PIECE, A PROFESSOR OF CRIMINOLOGY AT NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY. AND DR. DANIEL LAWRENCE, SENIOR RESEARCH SCIENTIST, SENIOR CORPORATION CENTER FOR JUSTICE RESEARCH AND INNOVATION.  DR. LAWRENCE IS JOINING US VIA ZOOM.  LASTLY, THE COMMITTEE INVITED LOCAL EXPERTS ON THE CIVIL LIBERTIES CADE CRAWFORD WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF TECHNOLOGY FOR LIBERTY PROGRAM, ACLU OF MASSACHUSETTS. MASSACHUSETTS. AND ALEX MATHEWS, CHAIR OF DIGITAL FORTH. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US FOR OUR FIRST PANEL. WE HAVE THE MEMBERS OF THE ADMINISTRATION AS WELL AS THE SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT TOM CHEATHAM. FROM SOME THINKING.  I ALSO LIKE TO ASK MR SHOOT THEM TO DO SOME.  WELL, I'M VERY GLAD THAT I ALSO LIKE TO ASK MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN IN ADMINISTRATION TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES AND PROVIDE ANY OPEN REMARKS. PLEASE PROCEED IN YOUR PREFERRED ORDER.  IT'S JEREMY. WE HAVE A BRIEF PRESENTATION THAT WE CAN USE TO KIND OF INTRODUCE OURSELVES AND MOVE THROUGH THINGS SO JUST KIND OF DO IT ON THE COMPUTER OVER THERE. IT'LL BE ON THE SCREENS. AWESOME. THANK YOU SO MUCH DR. .  JUST JUST WHILE I PUT THIS UP.  SORRY FOR THE DELAY HERE. I DO JUST WANT TO NOTE IN THIS PRESENTATION WE DO HAVE AUDIO OF SEVERAL SHOTSPOTTER DETECTIONS THAT DO PLAY VERY REALISTIC SOUNDS OF GUNFIRE IN SOME CASES AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.  SO I JUST WANT TO KIND OF GIVE THAT WARNING TO EVERYBODY THAT WE DO HAVE THAT WE ALSO HAVE SOME POLICE RADIO TRANSMISSIONS THAT DESCRIBE THE RESPONSE TO GUNFIRE AND SOME THINGS LIKE THAT. WE DO NOT HAVE ANY GRAPHIC VIDEO OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT I JUST WANT TO KIND OF MAKE THAT ANNOUNCEMENT.  DON'T KNOW WHY IT'S NOT PULLING UP ON  THE BRIDGE AS BEST IDLE HANDS. IT'S LIKE TWO.  ALL RIGHT. SORRY . SOMETHING MY COMPUTER HAS JUST REBOOTED HERE. IT WAS ALL READY TO GO BEFORE SORRY AND  I SHOULD DO SOME QUESTION AND THEN YEAH, MAYBE DO SOME QUESTIONS ON THAT. YEAH. YEAH, WE TO WE'RE GOING TO TO A BRIEF RECESS. THAT'S WHERE I'M GOING WITH SOME TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES VERY QUICKLY .  WELCOME BACK. RIGHT BEFORE WE WE JUMPED INTO PRESENTATION I WANT TO THANK PEOPLE FOR DEALING WITH THAT. I ALSO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE IN THE AUDIENCE THE DIRECTOR OF THE POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY THE EVANDRO ALVARO HAS JOINED US HERE TODAY AND THEN ALSO WE HAVE SENIOR ADVISOR OF SAFETY TO THE MAYOR ISAAC DIALLO. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US HERE WITH US TODAY. SO WITH THAT WE'LL TURN TO THE PRESENTATION.  THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR CHAIRMAN. I APOLOGIZE FOR THE DELAY THERE SOME TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES BUT I THINK WE'RE READY TO GO. GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. MY NAME IS RYAN WALSH AS A SUPERSET I'M THE DIRECTOR OF THE BOSTON REGIONAL INTELLIGENCE CENTER, THE DATA ANALYSIS WING OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.  SO WE HAVE A BRIEF PRESENTATION THIS MORNING BETWEEN MYSELF AND SEVERAL OF MY COLLEAGUES FROM THE DIFFERENT BUREAUS WHO INTERACT WITH THE SHOTSPOTTER TECHNOLOGY TO KIND OF SHOW HOW WE USE IT SOME OF THE BENEFITS THAT WE THINK WE FROM IT AND PROVIDE A FEW EXAMPLES OF ITS USE TO MAKE. I THINK MAKE THE DISCUSSION PRETTY CONCRETE AS TO KIND OF HOW IT'S BEING USED AND IMPLEMENTED IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND HOW THOSE BENEFITS GO.  SO JUST TO KICK THINGS OFF, YOU KNOW, WE SEE REALLY I FOUR KEY BENEFITS THAT WE GAIN FROM THIS TECHNOLOGY. THE FIRST AND PROBABLY MOST IMPORTANT IS A FASTER RESPONSE TO VICTIMS AND THE CRIME SCENE . THIS ALLOWS US TO GET TO VICTIMS FASTER THAN 911 CALLS TRADITIONALLY DO WE BELIEVE WE GET THERE ABOUT 2 TO 2 AND A HALF MINUTES FASTER ON AVERAGE TO A SHOTSPOTTER ALERT THAT ALLOWS ADDITIONAL AID TO VICTIMS AS WELL AS A FASTER EMS RESPONSE TO VICTIMS IN AREAS THAT HAVE THE SHOTSPOTTER COVERAGE. ADDITIONALLY, A FASTER RESPONSE TO THE CRIME SCENE MAKES EVIDENCE RECOVERY MORE LIKELY AS WELL AS POTENTIAL OTHER INFORMATION THAT MIGHT BE LOST IN A LONGER RESPONSE TIME SCENARIO. ADDITIONALLY, WE BELIEVE THE TECHNOLOGY ALLOWS FOR A MUCH MORE PRECISE RESPONSE SO WE'RE GIVING A MUCH MORE EXACT LOCATION THAN YOUR TYPICAL 911 CALLER SO THE OFFICERS ARE ABLE TO GO DIRECTLY TO WHERE IT'S MOST LIKELY THAT WE'RE GOING TO FIND THAT BALLISTIC EVIDENCE OR FIND THAT VICTIM SAVING KEY MINUTES YOU KNOW SECONDS REALLY IN OUR RESPONSE AND ALSO PREVENTING JUST KIND OF A MASS POLICE RESPONSE TO A WHOLE AREA OF THE CITY. WE'RE ABLE TO SEND OFFICERS TO A VERY PRECISE LOCATION.  THIS ALSO AIDS SIGNIFICANTLY IN LARGE AREAS OF THE CITY WHERE WE HAVE A LOT OF PARKS OR NON ROADWAY TYPE NETWORKS IN THE CITY WHERE AS YOU'LL HEAR LATER ON OUR DISPATCHERS AND THE OFFICERS THEMSELVES THAT ARE VIEWING THE ALERT ARE ABLE TO GO DIRECTLY TO THE CORNER OF THE BASKETBALL COURT OR YOU KNOW, THIS PART OF THE PARK UNDER THE TREE BASED ON THE PRECISION OF THE ALERT. ADDITIONALLY, AS I MENTIONED THIS LEADS TO SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVED EVIDENCE RECOVERY , WE BELIEVE WE GET THREE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO FIND BALLISTIC EVIDENCE IN RESULT OF A SHOTSPOTTER THAN A TRADITIONAL NINE ON ONE CALL FOR SHOTS FIRED. WE'LL SHOW SOME OF THAT DATA.  AND THEN FINALLY I THINK THE TOOL AIDS AND OFFICER AND COMMUNITY SAFETY THROUGH AWARENESS OF YOU KNOW, SIGNIFICANT VIOLENT INCIDENTS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THE CITY AWARENESS OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS WHICH UNFORTUNATELY AS DATA HAS SHOWN HAVE INCREASED OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS. THIS IS THINGS LIKE SEIZURE SWITCHES THAT ARE TURNING HANDGUNS INTO MACHINE GUNS IN OUR CITY. UNFORTUNATELY HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY BUT WE ARE EXPERIENCING THAT HERE AS WELL AS WELL AS MULTIPLE SHOOTER AWARENESS. SO YOU KNOW, TYPICAL NINE ONE CALLER PROBABLY DOES NOT HAVE THE SORT OF TRAINING AND EDUCATION TO UNDERSTAND WHEN THEY'RE HEARING MULTIPLE SHOOTERS HAPPENING AND THAT IS AN OFFICER SAFETY ISSUE FOR SURE AND DEFINITELY A COMMUNITY SAFETY IF WE THINK WE HAVE A YOU KNOW, A GUNFIGHT GOING ON IN A CERTAIN AREA OF THE CITY. THIS TOOL SHOTSPOTTER ALLOWS OFFICERS TO HAVE AT LEAST SOME INSIGHT AS THEY'RE BEGINNING THAT RESPONSE AS TO WHAT THEY MIGHT BE ENCOUNTERING WHEN THAT WHEN THEY GET THERE.  REALLY BRIEFLY, I WANT TO COVER OUR COVERAGE AREA SO YOU CAN SEE ON THE MAP HERE THE RED OUTLINED AREA IS OUR COVERAGE AREA IN THE CITY. IT COVERS APPROXIMATELY NINE SQUARE MILES OF THE CITY WE HAD A TWO SQUARE MILES IN 2023 THAT BECAME OPERATIONAL EARLIER THIS YEAR.  HOW DO WE ARRIVE AT THIS A COVERAGE AREA SO WE TOOK A LOOK THE BRICK AND OTHER PARTS OF THE APARTMENT TAKE A LOOK AT OUR HISTORIC GUNSHOT TRACKING THAT WE HAVE. SO OUR ANALYSTS OF THE BRICK I HAD BEEN TRACKING GUNSHOT VICTIMS IN THE CITY SINCE 2005 AND ALL OF OUR SHOTS FIRED CALLS ACROSS THE CITY SINCE ABOUT 2011. SO WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF HISTORICAL DATA AVAILABLE TO US. THESE ARE BASED ON REPORT REVIEW NOW A ONE CALL REVIEW INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION THAT WE GET THAT THERE MAY HAVE BEEN GUNSHOTS EVEN OUTSIDE OF THE SHOTSPOTTER AREA.  WE COMBINE ALL THAT DATA TOGETHER PROVIDE DO SOME SPATIAL ANALYTICS ON IT. WE SEE THAT THOSE HOTSPOT AREAS YOU SEE THERE THAT'S OUR GUNFIRE INCIDENTS.  SO WHETHER A VICTIM WAS SHOT OR NOT CONFIRMED GUNFIRE INCIDENTS IN THE CITY OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS AS YOU CAN SEE THE HOTSPOT AREA ON THE MAP BROADLY MATCHES THAT SHOTSPOTTER COVERAGE AREA AND THAT'S WHERE WE THINK YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY WE WERE WE HISTORICALLY EXPERIENCED THE MOST GUN VIOLENCE IN THE CITY. ADDITIONALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT SORT OF OVERALL OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS ABOUT 70% OF OUR GUNFIRE INCIDENTS HAVE OCCURRED WITHIN THE ZONE SO THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY YOU KNOW, WHILE WE THINK WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SHOTSPOTTER CITYWIDE, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE TO MAKE RESOURCE DECISIONS NOT TO CONSTRAINED RESOURCES AND SO WE THINK PUTTING IT IN THE AREAS WHERE WE'VE UNFORTUNATELY HISTORICALLY BEEN MOST LIKELY TO SEE GUN VIOLENCE MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.  REAL BRIEFLY HERE I'LL TURN IT OVER TO DEPUTY BROWN BUT I JUST WANT TO COVER SOME STATISTICAL INFORMATION. SO WE HAVE SEEN IN THE CITY WE DO HAVE DATA ON HOW OUR SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVATIONS KIND WHAT DO WE FIND WHEN WE GO TO THEM? THERE'S SEVERAL CHALLENGES WITH THIS DATA SET RIGHT? WE DO OCCASIONALLY GET DUPLICATE ACTIVATIONS DEPENDING ON THE SCIENCE AND THE SOUND OF GUNFIRE SO IT DOES TAKE A LOT OF WORK TO KIND OF NARROW THESE DOWN TO GET TO A TRUE ACCURATE DATA SET.  BUT OVERALL AS YOU CAN SEE LAST YEAR IN 2023 WE FOUND BALLISTIC EVIDENCE IN ABOUT 44% OF OUR SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVATIONS ABOUT 6%. SOME EVIDENCE OF FIREWORKS WERE FOUND AND THEN ABOUT 2% WERE SOME SORT OF VEHICLE OR CONSTRUCTION RELATED EVIDENCE WAS FOUND THAT THAT LIKELY CAUSED THE GUNFIRE AND THEN IN 48% WE TALKED WE HAD NOTHING FOUND. SO WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT NOTHING FOUND CATEGORY IN A FEW MINUTES. WE ALSO DID A SIMILAR ANALYSIS BASED ON OUR NINE ON ONE CALL. SO THESE ARE NINE ONE CALLS FOR SHOTS FIRED.  A TYPICAL CALLER YOU KNOW WE CALL IN CITYWIDE OF COURSE AND I SHOULD SAY BEFORE I GET THERE I SHOULD ALSO STATE THAT OUT OF THAT 44% ABOUT 75 INCIDENTS WHERE SHOTSPOTTER DETECTED GUNSHOTS AND WE FOUND BALLISTIC EVIDENCE THERE WAS NO CORRESPONDING 911 CALL. SO 75 INCIDENTS INCLUDING TWO WHERE A VICTIM WAS FOUND WHERE THE DEPARTMENT WOULD NOT HAVE OTHERWISE BEEN AWARE THAT THERE HAD BEEN GUNFIRE IN THE CITY ALLOWING US TO GENERATE OUR EVIDENCE RECOVERY POLICE RESPONSE TO, YOU KNOW, SIGNIFICANT VIOLENCE IN THE CITY AND MANY OF THOSE ACTIVATIONS HAVE LED TO FIREARM RECOVERIES AND YOU KNOW, OTHER FOLLOW ON INVESTIGATIONS THAT HAVE LED TO OTHER OTHER THINGS POSITIVE OUTCOMES.  WE LOOK AT THE NAME ON ONE CALL DATA. WE SEE THAT ABOUT 12% OF NINE ON ONE CALLERS WHO CLAIM TO HAVE HEARD SHOTS FIRED WE RECOVERED BALLISTIC EVIDENCE AND ABOUT 12% OF THOSE INSTANCES IN THE CITY WITH 88% NOTHING FOUND. SO THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT DISPARITY AS YOU CAN SEE THERE. OBVIOUSLY NOT ONE MY CALLERS JUST GENERALLY HAVE LESS INFORMATION AVAILABLE THEM WE OF COURSE ENCOURAGE FOLKS TO CALL 911 AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE BUT WE DO KNOW THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT REASONS THAT FOLKS MAY NOT CALL 911 MAY NOT BE COMFORTABLE OR YOU KNOW, THINK OTHER PEOPLE ARE GOING TO CALL OR THINGS LIKE THAT. SO OBVIOUSLY TURN OVER TO DEBBIE BROWN FOR A LITTLE BIT OF KIND OF COMMENTARY FROM THE FIELD SERVICES PERSPECTIVE ON THESE STATS.  MY PUT ALL RIGHT THANK YOU. SO I DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF STATS BRIAN COVERED A WHOLE LOT OF STATISTICAL THINGS I'M THE COMMANDER OF ZONE E WHICH MAKES UP JAMAICA PLAIN PART OF ROXBURY WEST ROXBURY HYDE PARK AND ROSLINDALE.  UNFORTUNATELY I'VE HAD THE LAST THREE MAJOR SHOOTINGS HAPPENED IN MY ZONE AND WHAT I WANT TO POINT OUT TODAY IS THAT AS YOU ALL KNOW, THE MISSION OF THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT IS COMMUNITY POLICING WHICH IS MEANS TO FIGHT CRIME, REDUCE FEAR AND IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF LIFE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. WE'VE HEARD THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND TRUE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT IS WE TRY TO DO. AND WITH THE HELP OF SHOTSPOTTER WE'RE ABLE TO DO A LOT OF THAT. I HAVE TWO EXAMPLES I JUST LIKE TO KIND OF DISCUSS TODAY ON JULY 29TH WE HAD A SHOOTING AT TWO 25/7 STREET WHERE A YOUNG MAN WAS SHOT IN THE CHEST TWICE. THANK GOD HE SURVIVED SO FAR.  THE OFFICERS RESPONDED DUE TO SHOTSPOTTER THAT DAY OFFICERS ARMS WERE COVERED IN BLOOD FROM PUTTING IN QUICK CLOT INTO THE WOUNDS THAT THIS GENTLEMAN HAD THAT DAY FROM BEING SHOT AND THAT WAS ALL DUE TO THE FACT THAT THEY HAD INFORMATION IMMEDIATELY THEY WERE ABLE TO RESPOND QUICKLY AND APPLY MEDICAL AID AND GET THAT KID TO THE HOSPITAL AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AS A SERGEANT DETECTIVE IN THAT DISTRICT 13 WHERE I'VE WORKED FOR SEVERAL YEARS, I'VE HAD MULTIPLE DOCTORS CALL ME AND SAY THANK GOD THOSE OFFICERS WERE THERE. THEY WERE ABLE THEY SAVED THIS KID'S LIFE THAT NIGHT AND A LOT OF IT'S DUE TO THE SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVATIONS THAT GO ON IN THAT IN THAT DISTRICT ON JULY 5TH, THE DAY AFTER THANKSGIVING FOR . SOME REASON THE SHOTSPOTTER SYSTEM WAS TURNED DOWN SO THAT THE FIREWORKS WOULDN'T REGISTER AS MUCH AND WOULD KIND OF MAYBE FILTER JUST THE SHOT THAT NIGHT WE HAD THREE PEOPLE SHOT INSIDE BROMLEY HEATH THANK GOD ALL LIVED LA WHOEVER ONE OF THEM SAID TO US WHY WAS THE SHOTSPOTTER TURNED OFF THAT NIGHT? WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT WAS TURNED OFF OR SHUT DOWN THAT NIGHT THE 911 CALL DIDN'T COME IN UNTIL AFTER 10 MINUTES AND THAT SPEAKS TO WHAT TOM HAD SAID EARLIER MOST 911 CALLS TAKE SEVERAL MINUTES FOR SOMEONE TO CALL BECAUSE THEY THINK SOMEONE ELSE IS GOING TO DO IT, PARTICULARLY IN AREAS OF HIGH CRIME.  SO THOSE ARE JUST TWO EXAMPLES THAT I WANT TO BRING UP JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THE EFFECTIVENESS OF SHOTSPOTTER CURRENTLY AS OF THIS MONTH EARLIER COUNCILOR WEBB HAD MENTIONED THE DIALLO CASE IN 1999. I REMEMBER THAT CASE VIVIDLY THAT FOLLOWING YEAR I WAS IN THE GANG UNIT WHERE I SPENT FIVE YEARS SINCE CASES LIKE AND DIFFERENT THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN ILLINOIS, IN MILWAUKEE AND ALL THESE PLACES ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY THE BUREAU FIELD SERVICES IN ENACTED TRAINING FOR OFFICERS WHO WISH TO BE IN PLAINCLOTHES IN WHAT'S KNOWN AS THE ANTI CRIME CARS IN THE DISTRICTS OFFICERS HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME ON THE JOB AND THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS TRAINING WHICH IS PRETTY EXTENSIVE BEFORE THEY GO OUT IN ORDER AND WE DO THIS TRAINING IN ORDER TO ALLEVIATE ANY INCIDENTS LIKE THAT COMING IN THE FUTURE.  ALSO MOST PLAINCLOTHES OFFICERS AND MEMBERS OF THE GANG ALWAYS HAVE A SUPERVISOR WITH THEM SO HOPEFULLY WE WILL NEVER SEE ANYTHING LIKE IT.  OLD CASE HERE IN 1999 SO I'M THINKING HAS DEFINITELY IN MY EXPERIENCE OF BEING IN THE HOMICIDE UNIT, THE GANG UNIT AND AS A DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT IT'S DEFINITELY HELPFUL TO THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO GO OUT AND SERVE THIS COMMUNITY EVERY DAY. THANK YOU.  THANK YOU. DEPUTY, REAL QUICK, I JUST WANT TO KIND OF COVER A COUPLE OF THE KEY FACTORS THAT WE FIND IN SORT OF WHAT'S THE REASON FOR THAT? NOTHING FOUND RIGHT LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT THERE. SO I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE OF KEY FACTORS THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND WITH THE CHANCE OF FINDING BALLISTIC EVIDENCE IN RESPONSE TO ANY SHOTS FIRED CALL FOR FOUR KEY FACTORS THAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT BRIEFLY. FIRST IS THE USE OF REVOLVERS WE RECOVERED LAST YEAR ABOUT 10% OF ALL OF OUR RECOVERED FIREARMS LAST YEAR WHERE REVOLVER STYLE WEAPONS THESE ARE ONE TYPE OF WEAPON THAT DOES NOT EJECT A SHELL CASING THAT COULD BE FOUND BY THE OFFICER. SO WE THINK AT ABOUT 10% OF OUR SHOOTINGS WE SEE THAT TYPE OF WEAPON BEING USED IN AT LEAST 10% OF THOSE CASES. ADDITIONALLY, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE VIDEOS HERE SORRY THAT WE DO HAVE INSTANCES WHERE TWO INSTANCES AT LEAST IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS THAT WERE DOCUMENTED BY OUR OFFICERS WHERE INDIVIDUALS KICKED ACTIVELY KICKED SHELL CASINGS INTO SEWERS AND OTHER THINGS TO PREVENT OFFICERS FROM RECOVERING THEM IN RESPONSE TO GUNFIRE IN THE CITY.  ADDITIONALLY WE OFTEN HAVE UNFORTUNATELY SHOOTING FROM MOVING VEHICLES IN THE CITY IN DIFFERENT WAYS. THIS OBVIOUSLY SIGNIFICANTLY COMPLICATES THE CHANCE OF FINDING BALLISTIC EVIDENCE IN THOSE CASES. AND THEN FINALLY A QUICK GOOGLE A QUICK AMAZON OR A GOOGLE SEARCH WILL SHOW FOR LESS THAN $10 THERE ARE NUMEROUS READILY AVAILABLE CARTRIDGE RETRIEVAL DEVICES THAT SUSPECTS CAN PURCHASE A STRAP ON TO ANY WEAPON AND WE'LL CATCH SHELL CASINGS THAT ARE COMING OUT YOU KNOW, LIMITING EVIDENCE,  RECOVERY POSSIBILITIES.  NOW WE'RE JUST GOING TO GO THROUGH A COUPLE EXAMPLES OF SHOTSPOTTER IS USE THAT WE'VE HAD LAST YEAR AND IN A COUPLE OF PRIOR INSTANCES AND DEPUTY MCLAUGHLIN'S IS GOING TO HELP TALK US THROUGH A FEW OF THESE INSTANCES.  THIS IS WHERE WE DO HAVE THE SOUNDS OF GUNFIRE AND POLICE RADIO TRANSMISSIONS. WELL, OKAY, OKAY.  GOOD MORNING EVERYONE. MY NAME IS PAUL MCLAUGHLIN,  DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT IN THE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIVE SERVICES.  I AM THE COMMANDER OF THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS DIVISION. SO UNDER ME UNITS LIKE THE HOMICIDE UNIT AND ALL OF THE DETECTIVES THAT ARE ASSIGNED TO DISTRICT STATIONS ESSENTIALLY ALL OF THE INVESTIGATORS THAT ARE GOING TO GOING TO BE INVOLVED IN THE INVESTIGATIONS OF SHOTS FIRED INCIDENTS,  AGGRAVATED ASSAULTS AND HOMICIDES INVOLVING FIREARMS THIS THIS FIRST EXAMPLE THAT THAT RYAN WILL PLAY INVOLVES A SHOTS SHOTS FIRED I'M SORRY TWO SHOTS BORDER ACTIVATION ON DALE STREET IN ROXBURY. ONE OF THE SIGNIFICANT THINGS ABOUT THIS IS AND WE POINT TO THIS AS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE MAPPING TOOL THE MAPPING PART OF THIS SHOTSPOTTER THAT IT ALLOWED THE OFFICERS EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE RESPONDING TO AN ADDRESS TO LOOK RIGHT ON THEIR PHONES AND SEE THAT IT WAS MAPPING INSIDE OF THE PARK AND YOU'LL HEAR WHEN YOU AFTER YOU HEAR THE SHOTS BEING FIRED THAT AUDIO YOU'LL HEAR A SMALL CLIP OF OF SOME OF THE RADIO TRANSMISSIONS AND YOU'LL SEE HOW OFFICERS ARE USING THIS TECHNOLOGY TO HONE IN ON AN AREA TO LOOK FOR EVIDENCE. AND IN THIS CASE I THINK WE COVERED I THINK 13 SHELL CASINGS THAT WERE FIRED INSIDE OF THE PARK. BUT WHEN THE WHEN THE BUT IT MAPPED AT A CERTAIN ADDRESS SO SO BY USING THAT MAPPING THEY COULD LOOK AND LOOK FOR THE EVIDENCE IN A WAY IN AN AREA THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO RECOVER IT NEED A COUPLE OF BRAVO UNITS TO CLEAR UP SHOTSPOTTER ONE ON ONE DELL 13 ROUNDS.  REMEMBER THEY COME DOWN TO SHOTSPOTTER OR THE NUMBER ONE CALL NO NUMBER ONE CALLS AS OF YET JUST THE SHOTSPOTTER 13 ROUND IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S MAPPING A LITTLE BIT INTO THE WOODS LINE THE PART PROBABLY FOR A LOT OF PROBLEM THE SHELL CASINGS OF THE SHELL CASINGS ON THE PARK I GOT IT SO YOU'LL SEE IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE NOW THANKFULLY NOBODY WAS HIT. THAT WAS THAT WAS STRICTLY A SHOTS FIRED INCIDENT. BUT THOSE SHOTS FIRED INCIDENTS ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE ACTUAL SHOOTINGS THEMSELVES BECAUSE IT ALLOWS US TO LOCATE THE EVIDENCE TO SUBMIT THAT EVIDENCE FOR ANALYSIS TO BE ENTERED INTO THE NIVEN SYSTEM WHICH WILL TRACK IT AND MATCH IT TO OTHER INCIDENTS. SO THAT AS OUR INVESTIGATORS BUILD CASES THEY'RE ABLE TO LOOK AT NOT ONLY THE CASE THAT THAT THEY WERE INVESTIGATING THE SHOOTING, THE HOMICIDE, THE SHOTS FIRED INCIDENT BUT ALSO LOOK HOW THAT RELATES TO INCIDENTS IN THE PAST OR POTENTIALLY TO RECOVERED FIREARMS EITHER AT THAT TIME OR SOME TIME CONTEMPORARY WITH THE INCIDENT. SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE COLLECT THAT EVIDENCE EVEN THOUGH NOBODY WAS STRUCK.  SO THIS INCIDENT IS ACTUALLY THE RESULT OF MULTIPLE SHOTSPOTTER CALLS FOR IN THE SAME AREA ALL RELATED TO THE SAME INCIDENT.  IT'S I BELIEVE I THINK THE GRAPHIC SAYS 2 MINUTES BEFORE AN ACTUAL 911 CALLS 19 SHELL CASINGS LOCATED AGAIN IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE NO ONE WAS HIT BUT AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE MAPPING, IF PEOPLE THAT ARE FAMILIAR WITH THAT AREA THAT IS DIRECTLY OVER A TOT LOT PLAYGROUND IN THE AREA BEHIND THE LYLA FREDRICK MIDDLE SCHOOL SO RIGHT IN AN AREA THAT WE'RE THAT WHERE THE EVIDENCE WAS RECOVERED THERE WAS SOME RECOVERED ON INTERVAL STREET SOME RECOVERED ON THE NORMANDY STREET SIDE OF OF THE SO YOU CAN SEE THAT AS YOU LOOK AT THAT AND AS ONE OF THE THINGS WE LOOK WE WANT OUR INVESTIGATORS TO DO IS TO ANALYZE THE EVIDENCE YOU KNOW, BY AND I'LL SEE IT WHEN I HAVE A PREPARED STATEMENT TO TALK ABOUT THE INVESTIGATIVE SIDE OF THINGS.  BUT TO ANALYZE THAT AUDIO COMPARED TO THE WHERE THE LOCATION OF THE BALLISTIC EVIDENCE IS TO TRY TO RECREATE THAT SCENE SO THAT THEY CAN FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. SO YOU'LL HEAR IT AGAIN TWO DIFFERENT TWO DIFFERENT AUDIOS ,19 SHELL CASINGS. I BELIEVE THIS HAPPENED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY AND YOU'LL HEAR SOME OF THE THE AUDIO AS WELL.  916 SOUNDED LIKE GUNSHOTS AND I'M GETTING UH 515 WASHINGTON STREET ON MY SHOTSPOTTER SOUNDED LIKE MULTIPLE ROUNDS AND WE'RE LOOKING AT IT RIGHT NOW WE'RE SEEING 1514 WATCH ON THE SHOTSPOTTER FIVE ROUNDS. CAN I GET ACROSS STREET ON 1514 IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S CLOSER TO MYSTIC STREET ETC. WHICH ARE LIKE RIGHT HERE.  FORTUNES THERE NO.  499, TEN YOU DON'T NO PHONE CALLS YET. WE GOT ANOTHER HIT ON IT NOW I GOT THREE ROUNDS FIVE ON THE FIRST TOTAL EIGHT MORE THAN EIGHT JUST OUT OF THIS I ACTUALLY MY ICICLE NEIGHBORS ARE CALLING FROM TWEETED THE WRONG CASE THIS HAPPENED ON THE SOUTH END ACTUALLY IN THE CATHEDRAL PROJECT SO I GOT 498199 SO DOUBLE THAT I ON ONE METRIC UM AND THERE IS A CAR THAT'S BEEN SHOT SO AGAIN I APOLOGIZE I'M TRYING TO READ IT FROM HERE THE THIS IS AN INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED IN THE CATHEDRAL PROJECTS AGAIN MIDDLE OF THE DAY TWO DIFFERENT SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVATIONS AGAIN NO ONE NO ONE HIT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE BUT ANALYZING THIS LOOKING AT THE SCENE, COLLECTING THE EVIDENCE AND THEN OVERLAYING THAT WITH WITNESS WITNESS INTERVIEWS AND WITH OTHER TECHNOLOGY THEY WERE ALLOWED THEY WERE ABLE TO SEE THAT THIS WAS ACTUALLY A SHOOTOUT BETWEEN TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS, TWO GUYS ON ONE SIDE, ONE ON THE OTHER. I BELIEVE THREE FIREARMS INVOLVED.  NOW THIS ONE IS THE ONE I JUST DESCRIBED SO I WON'T GO INTO TOO MUCH MORE DETAIL BUT AGAIN ,I THINK RYAN ONLY HAS ONE OF THE ACTIVATIONS UP THERE IS AN AUDIO BUT THERE IS ANOTHER ONE THAT HAPPENED AROUND THE SAME TIME AND AGAIN IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE THERE WERE THREE PEOPLE ARRESTED RIGHT AFTERWARDS. THREE FIREARMS RECOVERED, ONE OF THEM BEING A GHOST GUN, A GUN THAT NOT DOES NOT HAVE A SERIAL NUMBER UNABLE TO BE TRACKED.  SO THREE SUSPECTS WERE ARRESTED. I DO NOT REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER OF ROUNDS BUT IT WAS SIGNIFICANT IN A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT PLACES AND THEY CONTROLLED ONE WHEN HE GOT IN SOME OF THE SHOTS. ONE OF THEM YEAH. YEP. WE GOT IT. WHAT DID THEY HAVE REPORTS OF SHOTS FIRED IN THE AREA?  SURE. 116 BRUNSWICK STREET AND ONE LAREDO STREET.  UH, FOR THE BRUNSWICK STREET WE SAW ONE RUNNING IN THE BACK OF THE BOOK HIGH SCHOOL AND UH, TOWARDS INTERVIEW I GOT UH, THREE MALES DRESSED IN ALL BLACK.  ONE HAS WHITE SNEAKERS, ALL THREE OF FIREARMS OR A NORMANDY THAT'S BEEN AVAILABLE FOR LIKE, UH LIKE 20.  I GOT IT FROM RUNNING DOWN NON DE PASS INTERVIEW TO HIS FIANCEE BRAVO 980 AND A GUN DOG AND THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AT LEAST THREE GUNS. ALL RIGHT, GUN DOG UP TO NORMANDY STREET AT LEAST THREE GUNS MAN SPEAKING TO A WITNESS SHE SAW FOUR OR FIVE MALES RUNNING THROUGH THE PARK TOWARDS THE PILOTS COURSE AND THEY WERE SHOOTING DOWN TOWARDS A GROUP THAT WAS ON BROADWAY. MA'AM, ANOTHER WITNESS UM, GROUP OF FOUR OR FIVE BACK AND THEY WERE BACK OF THE FREDRIC TOOK OFF WHEN THEY SAW THE OTHER GROUP NOW WE GOT MORE CASINGS INSIDE THE PARK.  OKAY. ANOTHER WITNESS HAD FOUR OR FIVE IN THE BACK OF THE FREDERICK SCHOOL THAT TOOK OFF RUNNING WHEN THEY SAW THE OTHER GROUP MORE CASINGS INSIDE THE PARK.  YEAH, WE GOT THREE FIREARMS RECOVERED BACK IN THE AREA AT ANY OF THE COURT RECEIVED THREE FIREARMS.  SO WHAT YOU SEE HERE AND YOU CAN'T I KNOW IT BECAUSE I KNOW A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION BUT YOU'LL HEAR AN OFFICER COME ON AND START TALKING ABOUT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND WHERE THEY'RE GOING.  THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF USING SHOT BY SHOT BY THE TECHNOLOGY TO TO TIMESTAMP AN INCIDENT AND THEN TO ALLOW INVESTIGATE IT IS TO GO ON TO USE OTHER TECHNOLOGY. IN THAT CASE IT'S APPARENT TO ME THAT HE HAS GONE ON TO A VIDEO SYSTEM THAT AREA THERE IS COVERED BY MULTIPLE VIDEO CAMERAS AROUND THE TOT LOT AT THE INTERSECTION OF NORMANDY STREET AND INTO BEALE STREET AND IT'S CLEAR TO ME THAT THAT HE'S HE'S GONE ON TO THAT SYSTEM AND IMMEDIATELY LOOKED WHERE THE SHOTSPOTTER HAPPENED THE TIME THAT IT HAPPENED AND BEGAN TO TRACK THE POTENTIAL SUSPECTS FROM THAT. SO IT'S A REAL GOOD EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT I'LL MENTION AGAIN IN THE INVESTIGATIVE SIDE THAT THAT WE USE THE TECHNOLOGY TO TO TO PROVIDE THAT ACCURATE TIMESTAMP THAT ALLOWS US TO START LAYERING OTHER TECHNOLOGY WITNESS INTERVIEWS POTENTIALLY SUSPECT INTERVIEWS AND SO ON TO KIND OF BUILD OUR CASE.  SO THIS LAST ONE IS A IS THAT 12 IS THAT IT'S IN QUADRANT PARK WHICH IS ACADEMY HOMES IN JAMAICA PLAIN ROXBURY LINE THIS IS ONE THAT 12 SHELL CASINGS RECOVERED AND AGAIN YOU'LL HEAR THE AFTER THE SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVATION YOU'LL HEAR THE RESPONSE FROM THE OFFICERS AND I BELIEVE THAT THIS DID NOT HAVE A CORRESPONDING NINE ONE CALL SHOTSPOTTER FOUR 2986 WASHINGTON STREET ON THE WAY COMING UP AS 12 ROUNDS IN THE PARKING LOT ON THE MAP THAT COULD BE A TOWN IN THE STREET DOING SOMETHING DESCRIPTION NO ,THAT'S JUST FROM SHOTSPOTTER. I'M JUST GETTING A 59 COMMON PATH SO SOMEBODY SHOT AT HER HOUSE, DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING THAT'S 59 CORBIN PARK. OKAY.  SO IT'S JUST SORT OF GIVEN 12 ROUNDS THERE. UM 2986 IT DOES SHOW ON THE PARKING LOT AND THE CALLER FROM UH AGAIN 59 CORBIN PARK SAYS HER HOUSE WAS SHOT UP BUT SHE DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING.  AS OF RIGHT NOW WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE SHOT, NOBODY SHOT. IF WE CAN GET ANYTHING FROM THE WITNESSES.  JAY TALLEY CASE 908 ANYBODY CHECKED THE PARKING LOT?  YEAH. AGAIN IT ALL CAME IN IN THE PARKING LOT. ANYBODY GOT ANY BALLISTICS SHOTS?  27 BALLISTIC DAMAGE TO THE HOUSE. UM, ALL OF THE DOGS. UH, THE BALLISTICS ARE ALL OVER THE HOUSE SO A 15 COGMAN NOT SO YOU'LL ALSO SEE IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE THEY AS A RESULT OF THAT INITIAL INVESTIGATION THE RESPONSE TO THE SCENE THEY WERE ABLE TO ARREST TWO PEOPLE THEY RECOVERED I BELIEVE ONE FIREARM AS A RESULT OF THAT AS WELL.  I DO JUST WANT TO NOTE JUST FOR THE RECORD WE DID, YOU KNOW, EDIT THOSE RADIO TRANSMISSIONS FOR TIME AND TO REMOVE UNRELATED TRANSMISSIONS THAT WERE HAPPENING ON OTHER INCIDENTS, YOU KNOW, INTERMIXED IN THERE. SO WITH THAT I THINK WE'D BE HAPPY TO I JUST I JUST WANT TO SAY FROM AN INVESTIGATIVE STANDPOINT AND I MENTIONED SOME OF THE STEPS WE TAKE BUT JUST JUST SO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT REGULARLY USE SHOTSPOTTER DATA TO ASSIST IN CONDUCTING INVESTIGATIONS INTO INCIDENTS THAT INVOLVE THE USE OF FIREARMS INCLUDING SHOTS FIRED NONFATAL SHOOTINGS AND HOMICIDES BECAUSE SHOTSPOTTER ALLOWS FOR A QUICKER RESPONSE TO THE MORE PRECISE SCENE OF AN INCIDENT, OFFICERS ARE BETTER ABLE TO ESTABLISH THE SCENE, PROTECT THE EVIDENCE FROM BEING INTENTIONALLY OR ACCIDENTALLY REMOVED. THIS MAKES IT MORE LIKELY THAT THE RESPONDING INVESTIGATORS WILL RECEIVE THE SCENE WITH MINIMAL CONTAMINATION. A REVIEW OF THE INFORMATION PROVIDED IN THE SHOTSPOTTER ALERT MAY RESULT IN EXPANDING THE ORIGINAL SCENE OR AN ENHANCED SEARCH WITHIN THAT AREA ESTABLISHING AND CONTROLLING THE SCENE OF A CRIME IS ONE OF THE KEY DETERMINANTS OF THE SOLVE THE ABILITY OF A CRIME IN INVESTIGATING A CRIME INVOLVING THE USE OF FIREARMS PHYSICAL EVIDENCE CAN MAKE OR BREAK A CASE IN A SHOOTING INVESTIGATION, SPENT SHELL CASINGS, SPENT BULLETS AND OBJECTS OR PEOPLE STRUCK BY GUNFIRE ARE ALL IMMEDIATE CORROBORATION OF THE ORIGINAL SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVATION. THE ACTIVATION SERVES AS A RELIABLE TIMESTAMP OF WHEN IN THE INCIDENT HAPPENED AND HELPS THE INVESTIGATOR TO BEGIN TO CREATE A TIMELINE OF THE INCIDENT.  BALLISTIC EVIDENCE RECOVERED IN CONNECTION TO A SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVATION CAN PROVIDE VALUABLE BUILDING BLOCKS FOR THE INVESTIGATOR TO USE TO CONSTRUCT THEIR CASE. THIS INFORMATION MAY INCLUDE THE TOTAL NUMBER OF SHOTS FIRED, THE MINIMUM NUMBER AND CALIBER OF FIRE FIREARMS USED AND THE APPROXIMATE LOCATION OF THE SHOOTER OR SHOOTERS INVOLVED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. THE SPREAD OF SPENT SHELL CASINGS ON THE SCENE MAY INDICATE SOMETHING WHETHER OR NOT THE SHOOTER WAS MOVING AT THE TIME EITHER ON FOOT OR IN SOME TYPE OF VEHICLE. A REVIEW OF THE CRIME SCENE IN RELATION TO THE AUDIO MAY ALSO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL CONTEXT TO DETERMINE THE FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE INCIDENT. ONCE THAT BALLISTIC EVIDENCE HAS BEEN COLLECTED AND EXAMINED, THE INVESTIGATORS ABLE TO THEN LAY OUT THE OTHER TYPES OF EVIDENCE ON TOP TO BUILD THE CASE AND IDENTIFY A SUSPECT A SUSPECT OR SUSPECTS THIS MIGHT INCLUDE OTHER TYPES OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS OF THE INCIDENT SUSPECT ACCOUNTS, VIDEO AND CELLULAR GPS DATA.  IN ADDITION, THE BALLISTIC EVIDENCE WILL BE ENTERED INTO THE NIVEN SYSTEM AS I MENTIONED, WHICH WILL ALLOW THE RECOVERED EVIDENCE TO BE MATCHED TO A RECOVERED FIREARM OR POTENTIALLY TO OTHER CASES BOTH IN THE PAST AND FUTURE. THESE CONNECTIONS PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATIVE LEADS FOR DETECTIVES TO FOLLOW TO ESTABLISH THAT CASE.  SO IN SHORT, THERE IS NO DOUBT FROM AN INVESTIGATIVE STANDPOINT THAT SHOTSPOTTER ADDS A SIGNAL IS A SIGNIFICANT TOOL TO ASSIST US IN IN ESTABLISHING THAT TIMELINE AND REBUILDING OUR CASE ON TOP OF IT.  THANK YOU. THANK YOU, DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT AND THANK YOU ALL AGAIN, I'D LIKE TO ADD THAT THE PRESENTATION ON THAT BPD SHARED THIS MORNING WILL BE PROVIDED ELECTRONICALLY TO THE COMMITTEE AND TO MY OFFICE FOR OUR RECORDS AND FURTHER REVIEW . I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE AT THIS TIME THAT WE HAVE BEEN JOINED BY COUNSELOR LIZ BREEDEN FROM DISTRICT NINE AND COUNSELOR ERINN MURPHY, COUNSELOR AT LARGE. THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING.  I'D ALSO LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE AT THIS TIME THAT COUNSELORS FITZGERALD AND FLYNN SHARED THAT THEY APPRECIATE HAVING BEEN ABLE TO JOIN THIS DISCUSSION THIS MORNING AND THEY HAD TO LEAVE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE CRITICAL COMMUNITY EVENT IN RESPONSE TO THE CARNEY HOSPITAL CLOSURE.  I'D LIKE TO NOW INVITE THE CO-SPONSOR TO BEGIN WITH THE FIRST ROUND OF QUESTIONS AND THEN I WILL TURN THE FLOOR OVER TO MY COLLEAGUES IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL AND I'LL GO LAST. I'D LIKE TO ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO LIMIT THAT ON THE TIME FOR YOUR INITIAL QUESTIONS AND THE RESPONSE FROM OUR PANELISTS TO 5 MINUTES PER COUNSELOR INCLUDING PANELISTS RESPONSES AS A REMINDER AFTER THIS FIRST AFTER THIS FIRST ROUND OF QUESTIONS WE'LL HEAR FROM THE SECOND PANEL OF EXPERTS INCLUDING TWO RESEARCHERS AND TWO CIVIL LIBERTIES ADVOCATES AND WE'LL HEAR PUBLIC TESTIMONY . AND I'M ALSO GOING TO ASK MEMBERS OF THE ADMINISTRATION TO STAY WITH US DURING OUR SECOND PANEL IN CASE COUNSELORS HAVE ANY FOLLOW UPS QUESTIONS FOR THEM AS WE HEAR INFORMATION FROM OUR OTHER PANELISTS. AND I'LL ALSO PROVIDE MY COLLEAGUES WITH WITH WITH AN EXTENDED QUESTION TIME IN THE SECOND ROUND SO YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS TO ANY OF THE PANELISTS FROM EITHER PANEL. WITH THAT I'D LIKE TO HAND OVER TO THE CO-SPONSOR COUNSELOR WEBER. THANK YOU, CHAIR DID YOU SAY 5 MINUTES? CORRECT. OKAY, GREAT.  UM UH OKAY.  I GUESS UM, SO MR . MR CHAIRMAN, DO YOU MIND UH, SO I GUESS UH, YOU KNOW FOR SHOTSPOTTER, YOU KNOW, UM, I'M I'M ASSUMING YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY ASKS YOU IF IT'S EFFECTIVE THE ANSWER IS YES. YES. YEAH. AND SO WHAT'S THE I GUESS WHAT ARE THE WHAT'S THE DATA YOU POINT TO TO SHOW THAT IT'S EFFECTIVE AND IF YOU HAVE NUMBERS FOR FOR BOSTON WELL I WOULD POINT TO THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE REPORT THE BOSTON RECENTLY RELEASED AND THE EXAMPLES PRESENTED HERE TO SHOW THAT IT DOES IN FACT LEAD TO RECOVERY OF EVIDENCE TO LOCATING GUNSHOT WOUND VICTIMS TO ARRESTING OFFENDERS.  YEAH, I'M SORRY I DON'T MEAN TO CUT YOU OFF, BUT WHAT I MEANT IS LIKE WHAT ARE THE METRICS WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF UH YOU KNOW, THE IF THERE'S A RATES OF IDENTIFYING SHOTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT YOU HAVE THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION. OCCASIONALLY I HEAR PEOPLE LOOK ONLY TO IMMEDIATE ARRESTS AS A MEASURE OF THE TOOLS EFFECTIVENESS AND OF COURSE IMMEDIATE ARRESTS ARE A MEASURE BUT THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY MEASURE AND THEY'RE NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT MEASURE. THE OTHER THINGS THAT I MENTIONED ARE ALSO MEASURES LIKE DOES IT HELP POLICE MORE QUICKLY LOCATE GUNSHOT WOUND VICTIMS? DOES IT HELP THEM RECOVER GREATER EVIDENCE THAN NON ONE ONE ALONE? DOES IT RESULT IN MORE ARRESTS, SEIZURES OF FIREARMS AND BOTH THOSE SORTS OF MEASURES? WELL, OKAY. SO THE THE CHICAGO THE NEW YORK CITY COMPTROLLER HAD AN AUDIT, CHICAGO DID A REPORT AND THEY FOUND IT IN NEW YORK IT WAS 13% THAT'S THE AUDIT FOUND 13% OF THE SHOT OF THE SHOTS IDENTIFIED BY SHOTSPOTTER RESULTED IN ACTUAL EVIDENCE OF A SHOT OR CONFIRMATION IN CHICAGO. I THINK IT WAS LOWER. UM, AND SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS I YOU KNOW, IS THERE IS THERE ANYTHING IN IT?  NUMBER ONE IS DO WE TRACK HERE IN BOSTON AND MOST SENSE WAS IN THESE CITIES THEY DID NOT ACTUALLY TRACK THE NUMBER OF FALSE POSITIVES FROM SHOTSPOTTER.  SO I GUESS DUE TO SHOTSPOTTER TRACK, YOU KNOW IF IT'S IF THERE'S BEEN A SHOT DETECTED BUT IT'S BEEN IDENTIFIED AS EITHER NOT NOT FROM A GUN OR THERE'S BEEN NO EVIDENCE OBTAINED. YES. SO IT IS A MISTAKE TO EQUATE THE ABSENCE OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE LOCATED AS THE ABSENCE OF GUNFIRE OCCURRING.  WHAT WE SEE IS ACROSS THE COUNTRY HOW POLICE RESPOND CAN AFFECT THE RATE OF RECOVERY. THE RESEARCH THAT YOU POINT TO AL CHICAGO AND NEW YORK I THINK IS ONE DEEPLY FLAWED IN THAT IT DOES EQUATE THAT THAT WHEN PHYSICAL EVIDENCE IS IMMEDIATELY LOCATED THERE'S AN ASSUMPTION THAT SHOTSPOTTER MADE A MISTAKE.  WHEN SHOTSPOTTER SENDS AN ALERT TO OUR CUSTOMERS, OUR CUSTOMERS HAVE A FINANCIAL INCENTIVE TO PROVIDE US FEEDBACK IF WE GET IT WRONG THEY PAY US LESS. IF WE DON'T MEET THE STANDARDS WE SET AND THOSE STANDARDS ARE NOT 100% BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY CANNOT BE 100%. BUT WE SET THE THRESHOLD VERY HIGH AND MEASURING THAT FEEDBACK FROM OUR CUSTOMERS OVER MANY YEARS AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF INCIDENTS WE KNOW THAT WE KEEP A HIGH ACCURACY RATE IN THE 90% ABOVE 90%. CAN I JUST STOP YOU SO I MEAN REVIEWING THE NEW YORK COMPTROLLER'S REPORT THAT NUMBER 90% COMES UP AND THE THE PROBLEM I I AGREE WITH THIS BEING AN ISSUE WITH THAT NUMBER IS THAT 90% NUMBER MY UNDERSTANDING IS WHERE SHOTSPOTTER IS DETECTING A SHOT AND THEN THERE IS OTHER CONFIRMATION YOU'RE CONFIRMING THAT OF WHERE THERE IS A SHOT OF SHOTSPOTTER IS IDENTIFYING IT AS SUCH BUT IT DOESN'T CAPTURE THE WHERE. YEAH IT'S NOT IT'S NOT FROM FROM GUNFIRE WE DO ENCOURAGE OUR CUSTOMERS TO REPORT THAT SORT OF THING BACK TO US IF THEY SAY RESPOND OUT AND FIND A CHILD PLAYING WITH FIREWORKS A MINUTE AFTER GUNFIRE OCCURRED THE PRESUMPTION IS THAT CHILD DID NOT RUN INTO THE STREET AND START PLAYING WITH FIRECRACKERS AFTER GUNFIRE ENDED. THAT WOULD BE A MISTAKE AND WE TRACK THOSE THINGS. THAT'S A FALSE POSITIVE. WE ALSO TRACK FALSE NEGATIVES. OCCASIONALLY SHOTSPOTTER WILL MISS GUNFIRE THAT OCCURS OUTDOORS. OUR CUSTOMERS REPORT THAT BACK TO US AND MEASURING THAT WE KEEP A HIGH RATE THE ABSENCE OF THAT PHYSICAL EVIDENCE DOES NOT MEAN THAT GUNFIRE DIDN'T OCCUR AND AS YOU HEAR HURT HEAR VERY OFTEN THERE'S EXPLAINABLE REASONS FOR WHY THAT WOULD BE OKAY. AND THEN I GUESS TO THE REST OF THE PANEL'S TO DO WE HAVE DATA ON FALSE POSITIVE FALSE POSITIVES IN BOSTON FROM FROM SHOTSPOTTER.  THE REASON YOU SEND TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE. YES WE DO TRY OUR BEST TO COLLECT THAT INFORMATION THAT'S KIND OF SOMEWHAT WHERE THE STATS THAT I PRESENTED EARLIER CAME FROM OVERALL, AS I SAID, I THINK IT WAS 40 SORRY I HAVE TO LOOK IT UP JUST TO BE 100% CONFIDENT BUT I THINK WE SAID IT LAST YEAR IT'S ABOUT 45% OF YOU KNOW OF SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVATIONS DO HAVE BALLISTIC RECOVERIES AND THEN YOU KNOW, SMALLER PERCENTAGES ASIDE FROM THAT BUT NOTHING FOUND CATEGORY IS A CHALLENGE CANCER WE FULLY ADMIT THAT WE YOU KNOW, IT'S DIFFICULT TO SORT OF GET A FULLY ACCURATE PICTURE THERE.  OKAY. JUST ONE QUICK FINAL QUESTION FOR MR CHATHAM IS IS THERE WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THESE OTHER CITIES AND WHAT THEY FOUND, IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SHOTSPOTTER SYSTEM WE HAVE HERE IN BOSTON AS THE YOU KNOW, AS THEY HAVE IN NEW YORK, CHICAGO AND ELSEWHERE? THE SYSTEM IS THE SAME. OF COURSE IT IS DEPLOYED IN A SORT OF A CUSTOMIZED WAY. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE CHICAGO OIG REPORT THAT YOU REFERENCED, IT EXPLICITLY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THERE IS AN ABSENCE OF DATA THAT ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE AN INFORMED OPINION.  WHAT YOU SEE IS EVEN ACROSS THE CITY OF CHICAGO ITSELF THE RATE OF RECOVERY VARIES SAME SYSTEM ,DIFFERENT RECOVERY RATES AND LOOK AT THE TITLE OF THAT REPORT. IT IS CPD'S USE OF SHOTSPOTTER THAT THAT REPORT IS ABOUT HOW THE POLICE DEPARTMENT USES IT AND IN FACT THAT IS ONE OF THE FACTORS THAT INFLUENCE THE OUTCOME. LIKE ANY TOOL HOW YOU USE IT DETERMINES THE RESULTS YOU WILL SEE IF YOU BUY A PELOTON BIKE AND USE IT TO DRY YOUR LAUNDRY ON YOU WILL NOT GET IN SHAPE.  SAME THING HERE BY EMPLOYING EMPLOYING BEST PRACTICES DAY LIKE FOLLOW UP TO SHOOTING INCIDENTS USING CANINES, METAL DETECTORS, COMPREHENSIVE CRIME SCENE SEARCH YOU WILL INCREASE THE RATE OF RECOVERY AND WE SEE THAT HERE IN BOSTON IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE BPD IS ONE OF THE BETTER USERS OF THE SYSTEM. OKAY. THANK YOU CHAIR IF I PERMITTED A SECOND ROUND THANK YOU COUNSELOR WEBER AND I'LL TURN IT OVER TO COUNSELOR KEVIN , YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. AND AGAIN THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE PRESENTATION AND FOR BEING HERE TODAY. I AM AGAIN BEEN ABLE TO EXPLORE A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT SHOTSPOTTER HAS DONE AND HAPPY TO HEAR THAT SHOTSPOTTER WAS ONE OF THE THIS SYSTEM THAT HELPED TO IDENTIFY THAT THERE WAS A SHOOTING I BELIEVE IN COUNSELOR WEBBER'S DISTRICT AND THAT YOU RESPONDED MY QUESTIONS ARE MORE REGARDING HOW THE DATA IS USED OF SHOTSPOTTER. YOU KNOW I'M ALL ABOUT COLLABORATION AND BETWEEN DEPARTMENTS AND SYNERGY BETWEEN NOT JUST BPD BUT EVERY SINGLE DEPARTMENT THE CITY OF BOSTON AND IN THE PRESENTATION IT SHOWED THAT 70% OF OF THE SHOOTINGS THAT HAPPENED OR CAUGHT IN SHOTSPOTTER OR IN BRYANT'S ONE SPECIFIC REGION OF THE CITY RIGHT.  IF WE HAVE THAT INFORMATION, HOW CAN WE USE THE SHOTSPOTTER DATA TO SHARE WITH THE BUREAU OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT OF THE BPD SHARE WITH THE OFFICERS OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY OF THE MAYORS DIRECTOR ON VIOLENCE PREVENTION HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ALLOCATING THE RIGHT RESOURCES TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS ARE IDENTIFIED WITH THE MOST DATA IMPROVEMENTS TO SHOW TO BRING THOSE NUMBERS DOWN? DO WE USE THAT DATA FROM SHOTSPOTTER AND IN THOSE WAYS MOST DEFINITELY COUNCIL WHERE WE'RE ACTIVELY PARTICIPATING EVERY SINGLE DAY SHARING THE DATA BOTH INTERNALLY WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT WE HAVE SEVERAL SORT OF TECHNICAL APPLICATIONS I CAN'T PUT IT IN THREE BUCKETS. WE HAVE SEVERAL TECHNICAL APPLICATIONS THAT ALLOW OUR OFFICERS TO REVIEW NOT JUST SHOTSPOTTER DATA BUT GUNFIRE, GUN VIOLENCE DATA ACROSS THE CITY YOU KNOW, MINUTE TO MINUTE ON ON THAT BASIS.  SO WE'RE DOING AN ENGAGEMENT CAN CAN UTILIZE THOSE TOOLS WE ALSO PROVIDE THAT DATA PUBLICLY IN THE FORM OF SHOTS, FIRE DATA AND PERSON SHOT DATA SETS THAT ARE AVAILABLE ON THE DEPARTMENT WEBSITE WITH BOTH INTERACTIVE SORT OF MAPPING FEATURE SO PEOPLE CAN KIND OF GET A QUICK GLANCE AT IT AND THEN ALSO THE RAW RECORDS DATING BACK TO 2015 THAT'S UPDATED DAILY AS WELL WITH A SEVEN DAY LAG BY THE BREAK. ADDITIONALLY THAT BROOKE IS A VERY ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WITH OTHERS IN THE DEPARTMENT WE'RE TALKING TABLEAU AND THE SORT OF VIOLENCE REDUCTION MANAGEMENT TEAMS THAT'S A WEEKLY ACTIVITY ALTHOUGH I WOULD SAY WE'RE IN MUCH MORE CONSTANT COMMUNICATION THAN JUST WEEKLY BOTH PROVIDING STRATEGIC LOOK AT THE DATA OVER LONGER TIME PERIODS BUT ALSO VERY MICRO. I'M TRYING TO GET IT DOWN TO THE VERY BLOCK SOURCE INDIVIDUAL STREETS. OBVIOUSLY THOSE HOTSPOTS, YOU KNOW, DISPLAYED A LARGE AREA.  WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A LONGER DATA PERIOD BUT WE DO ALSO DO SORT OF MORE OF THE MICRO HOT SPOTTING WORK WHERE WE ARE WORKING WITH OTHER CITY PARTNERS. YOU KNOW IN THAT WORK AS WELL. YEAH AND YEAH, A QUICK SHOUT OUT TO SENIOR ADVISOR JAVIER WHO IS DOING A GOOD JOB A GREAT JOB IN COMING UP WITH PROACTIVE ENGAGEMENT IN OUR COMMUNITIES AND FOR ME THAT'S MY ANGLE IT'S IT'S NOT JUST GETTING THE RIGHT DATA, IT'S NOT ABOUT HAVING ACCURATE DATA WITH SHOTSPOTTER. IT'S ABOUT HOW DO WE USE THAT DATA AT THE END TO DECREASE THE NUMBER OF VIOLENCE BECAUSE YES, VIOLENCE IS DECREASING IN THE CITY OF BOSTON THAT IS TRUE. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT SPECIFIC BLOCKS IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE THERE, THEY REMAIN THE SAME. THOSE ARE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WE CONSISTENTLY HEAR THAT GET RESPONSES FROM POLICE OFFICERS WHERE OUR YOUTH CONTINUE TO NEED HELP. SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS USED ADEQUATELY TO BRING DOWN THE NUMBER OF JUST SHOTS HEARD ACROSS THOSE SPECIFIC NEIGHBORHOODS. YES. SO CERTAINLY TWO OTHER INSTANCES THAT I JUST WANT TO MENTION REALLY QUICKLY. SO WE'RE PRESENTING THIS DATA TO THE DEPARTMENT AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK TO THE LARGER DEPARTMENTAL COMMAND STAFF THROUGH OUR COMPSTAT PROCESS. WE ALSO HAVE A WEEKLY DEPLOYMENT PROCESS WHERE WE SORT OF REVIEW THE PRECINCT PARTICULARLY FIREARM ACTIVITY BUT ALL CRIME ACROSS THE CITY IS SORT OF DEPLOY OFFICERS APPROPRIATELY. THAT'S YOU KNOW, OUR BIWEEKLY COMPSTAT PROCESS AND THEN WE'VE ALSO YOU KNOW UNDER THE COMMISSIONER'S INITIATIVE OF THE COMMUNITY COMPSTAT PROGRAM WE'VE STARTED TAKING THIS DATA MORE PROACTIVELY NOT JUST PUBLISHING ON THE WEBSITE BUT ALSO GOING OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY TRYING TO EXPLAIN IT TO FOLKS BOTH FROM THE BREAK AND OUR COMMUNITY SERVICE OFFICERS IN THE DISTRICTS AND HOW MUCH TIME DO I HAVE TIME FOR ONE MORE QUESTION ONE MINUTE. ONE MINUTE. OKAY.  WHEN I COME I'M VERY LUCKY. I HAVE VERY AMAZING POLICE DISTRICTS IN MY DISTRICT I HAVE 18 D FIVE AND B THREE. THERE WAS AN OFFICER HERE FOR A CIVILIAN OFFICER HERE FROM B THREE JUST NOW HAD TO LEAVE BUT I WANT TO DO WE EVER GET THE PERSPECTIVE OF HOW THEY FEEL WHEN THEY'RE RESPONDING TO A CASE OF SHOTSPOTTER BECAUSE RECENTLY I WAS IN MATTAPAN TALKING TO TEENAGERS ABOUT THEIR INTERACTION WITH THE POLICE RIGHT?  AND THEY'RE BLACK AND LATINO KIDS AND THEY'RE ON EDGE WHENEVER THEY SEE LIGHTS OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE JUST ON EDGE. ARE THEY ARE YOUR OFFICERS TRAINED IN A WAY TO RESPOND APPROPRIATELY WHEN IT IS A SHOTSPOTTER CALL SO THAT THEY'RE NOT JUST OBVIOUSLY THEY DON'T KNOW WHO THEY'RE GOING TO THEY JUST GO INTO AN AREA WHERE THE SHOTS WERE HEARD AND THEN THEY HAVE TO IDENTIFY POSSIBLE PEOPLE THAT MAY BE INVOLVED. MY CONCERN IS TARGETING MY CONCERN IS OH, THESE PEOPLE LOOK SUSPICIOUS. HOW DO YOU AVOID THAT FROM HAPPENING?  SO QUITE OFTEN WHEN SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVITY HAPPENS A LOT OF TIMES IS WHAT'S KNOWN AS A CODE 19 IN THAT AREA. I'M SURE YOU'VE HEARD OF THE CODE 19 BEFORE. IT'S LIKE A KIND OF A FIXED POST FOR A ONE OR TWO OFFICER CAR.  SO A LOT OF TIMES THAT OFFICER WHO'S IN THAT AREA WHEN THE SHOTSPOTTER GOES OFF CAN GET ON THE RADIO AND SAY HEY THIS IS LEGIT, THIS IS NOT LEGIT. WHATEVER IT IS, HE'S RIGHT THERE. A LOT OF TIMES YOU'LL HAVE THE OFFICERS WHO HAVE THEIR BEATS WHO RESPOND TO THESE THINGS AND WHEN THEY'RE GOING IN THEY KNOW THE AREA BEFORE THEY EVEN GET THERE. SO THAT'S HELPFUL. AND A LOT OF TIMES WHAT I'VE SEEN OFFICERS DO WHEN THEY RESPOND TO A SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVATION, THEY'LL SPEAK TO THE RESIDENTS AND GET INFORMATION FROM THE COMMUNITY. NOW IT WAS JUST A CAR THAT BACKED UP AND GUYS MAY BE HANGING OUT ON THE BLOCK OR WHATEVER. THAT WAS JUST A CAR THAT JUST BACKFIRED AS IT JUST LEFT ALL THE KIDS AROUND THE CORNER. THEY WERE BLOWN OFF FIREWORKS SO THE OFFICERS DO ENGAGE IN THIS WHOLE COMMUNITY POLICING MISSION THAT WE HAVE TO GET INFORMATION FROM THE COMMUNITY AND THE RESIDENTS TO FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON BEFORE THEY GET THERE. IT'S NOT KIND OF LIKE EVERYONE JUST FLIES IN THERE. I MEAN UNLESS THERE'S MORE INFORMATION SAY FROM A NUMBER OF 911 CALLERS OR MULTIPLE SHOTS BY ACTIVATIONS OR PEOPLE ARE SAYING HEY, THEY'RE POINTING IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS LIKE FOR INSTANCE THE OTHER DAY THE RESIDENTS OF THE COMMUNITY IN JAMAICA PLAIN WERE VERY HELPFUL. THERE WAS A RESIDENT WHO POINTED OUT TO THE OFFICERS WHERE THE PERSON HAD FLED WHERE THE GUN WAS LOCATED WHICH THE OFFICERS WOULD HAVE NEVER HAD WITHOUT THAT COMMUNITY RELATION. SO I THINK WE'RE DOING A PRETTY GOOD JOB AS FAR AS KEEPING THE COMMUNITY RELATIONS GOING AND WHEN THE OFFICERS RESPOND TO THOSE SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVATIONS THEY KIND OF KNOW HOW TO GO IN AND HANDLE THEM.  THAT'S REALLY HELPFUL TO UNDERSTAND. SO THANK YOU FOR BREAKING IT DOWN LIKE THAT.  LIKE I SAID EARLIER, FOR ME THE GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE TECHNOLOGY IS BEING USED APPROPRIATELY, THAT THE RESIDENTS FEEL LIKE THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY YES. BUT I THINK TO THAT WOULD JUST ADD TO THAT TO WHAT DEPUTY BROWN SAID. YOU KNOW, MOST ALMOST ALL OFFICERS HAVE THIS TECHNOLOGY RUN ON THEIR PHONE. SO WHEN THAT WHEN THAT ALERT GOES OFF LITERALLY IF YOU'RE OUTSIDE IN THE PARKING LAWYER IN THE GUARD ROOM OR YOU'RE OUT, A PIN GOES OFF THAT EVERYBODY GETS AT THE SAME TIME AND THEY'RE ABLE TO LOOK AT THAT WE'RE ABLE TO LISTEN TO THE AUDIO.  THEY'RE ABLE TO SEE THE MAPPING. SO WHAT YOU END UP GETTING IS YOU HAVE YOU HAVE YOU HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT IT IS ALREADY IF IT'S 20 SHOTS IN A ROW AND APPEARS TO BE AUTOMATIC GUNFIRE ,I THINK YOUR SENSES ARE GOING TO BE A CERTAIN WAY THAN THEY ARE IF IT'S A SINGLE SHOT FOR INSTANCE. NOW ALSO IT ALLOWS YOU TO TO RESPOND IN A PRECISION WAY YOU'RE NOT GOING AND BLANKETING A NEIGHBORHOOD. YOU'RE GOING TO A PARTICULAR LOCATION WITHIN 25 METERS OF THAT THAT DOT. SO I THINK THAT REALLY LIMITS THE AMOUNT OF KIND OF THE FEAR THAT PEOPLE HAVE OF JUST THAT KIND OF ROUNDING PEOPLE UP AND BECAUSE IT WAS A SHOTS BORDER ACTIVATION. SO I THINK I THINK THE ABILITY FOR THE OFFICERS TO HAVE THAT INFORMATION AS THEY COME TO PROCESS IT AS THEY COME IN AND EVEN TO THAT POINT I THINK MOST I'VE HEARD AND I'VE SAID IT MY MYSELF AS A AS A DUTY SUPERVISOR AND A PATROL SUPERVISOR OFTENTIMES WE'RE TELLING PEOPLE LOOK, DON'T EVER GO TO THAT DOT RIGHT. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GO OUTSIDE THAT DOT MAYBE MAYBE YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE CAR FLEEING THAT THAT WAS RESPONSIBLE OR THE PERSON RUNNING DOWN THE STREET. BUT SO SO IT'S NOT THAT IT'S NOT THAT THAT THAT ACTIVATION GOES OFF AND 25 PEOPLE GO THERE AND JUST START ROTATING PEOPLE. IT'S REALLY IT REALLY GOES TO THE TRAINING AND YOU KNOW REALLY TO BE HONEST WITH YOU THAT THE TYPE OF OFFICERS THAT WE'RE THE TYPE OF TRAINING THEY'RE GETTING AND THE TYPE OF RESPONSES THAT THEY HAVE, IT'S MUCH DIFFERENT.  THAT'S REALLY HELPFUL. AGAIN, I WAS REALLY THANKFUL FOR THAT BREAKDOWN. THE EXPLANATION IT HELPS ME UNDERSTAND THE RESPONSE AND THEN IT ALSO HELPS ME TALK WHEN I'M OUT IN THE COMMUNITY WITH FOLKS THAT SHARE THAT SENSE OF ANXIETY LIKE HOW WAS IT USED BY I LOOK FORWARD TO THE SECOND ROUND OF QUESTIONS. I KNOW MY TIME IS UP. THANK YOU CHAIR THANK YOU, COUNSELOR.  I'LL TURN IT OVER TO DISTRICT FOUR CITY COUNCILOR BRYAN AROUND.  YEAH, 5 MINUTES. THANK YOU CHAIR AND THANK YOU TO THE PANEL FOR BEING HERE.  I AM ALL FOR MAKING SURE THAT OUR COMMUNITY FEELS SAFE AND JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE DOING IT IN A WAY THAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS POLICING TO BE DONE.  WHAT ONE ONE OF THE THINGS I DO WANT TO PUSH BACK ON FIRST IS I HEAR THAT YOU KNOW, COMING FROM THE PANEL THAT PEOPLE DON'T CALL 911 AND I WANT TO SAY THAT MY COMMUNITY, MY CONSTITUENTS THEY CALL ME AND THEY CALL 911 AND SOMETIMES WHAT THEY HEAR BACK FROM 911 IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A PRIORITY CALL SOMETIMES IT'S THEY DON'T HAVE AN OFFICER TO RESPOND TO THE INCIDENT THAT THEY'RE REPORTING OUT.  BUT SOMETIMES THOSE INCIDENTS THAT MIGHT NOT BE PRIORITY ONE RIGHT NOW SOMETIMES THEY LEAD RIGHT TO GUN GUN VIOLENCE OR VIOLENCE. SO I JUST WANT TO PUSH BACK THAT ON THIS NARRATIVE THAT, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITY MEMBERS ARE NOT CALLING 911 BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THEY ARE OVERLY OVERUSING ESPECIALLY IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND I REPRESENT DISTRICT FOUR WHICH LOOKED LIKE THAT MAP THAT YOU GUYS PUT UP ON THE COVERAGE AREA AND WHERE WE'RE USING IT AND WE'RE ACTUALLY REQUESTING FOR MORE COMMUNITY POLICING NOT ONLY AT NIGHTTIME BUT DURING THE DAY TO GET TO KNOW THE COMMUNITY, GET THE POLICE TO GET TO KNOW THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS, TO GET THEM TO COME OUT, WALK THE NEIGHBORHOOD BUT NOT JUST WITH THE POLICE BUT WITH SOCIAL SERVICES. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS PANEL MORE REFLECTIVE OF IS NOT JUST THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT NOT ONE DEPARTMENT IN THE CITY OF BOSTON IS GOING TO SOLVE VIOLENCE. YOU KNOW, THERE IS THERE WAS A IN THIS ARTICLE THAT'S RIGHT HERE THAT SAID 50% IN THE CITY IN THE CITY THAT SHOTSPOTTER TARGET AREA HAD TWICE THE NONWHITE POPULATION, THE POVERTY RATE ABOUT 50% HIGHER THAN THE REMAINDER OF THE CITY. SO THERE'S SOMETHING LARGER GOING ON WITHIN THESE AREAS THAT SHOTSPOTTER AS A GOVERNMENT.  SO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS ONE TOOL. SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE COLLABORATION WITH OTHER DEPARTMENTS THAT HAVE THE TOOLS TO FIX THIS PROBLEM. ONE ONE OTHER ISSUE THAT WELL ONE OTHER QUESTION THAT I DO HAVE IS I HAVEN'T HEARD THE TOTAL DOLLAR AMOUNT ON THE CONTRACT FOR SHOTSPOTTER HERE IN THE CITY OF BOSTON.  YEAH. SO I COUNCILOR FROM THAT FROM THE REPORT THE ANSWER TO QUESTION NUMBER SEVEN IT'S PAGE 48 IN THE IN THE 2023 ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORT A FY 23 DEPARTMENT SPENT $260,664 AND THEN ADDITIONALLY IN 2023 WE ADDED TWO MORE SQUARE MILES USING PURCHASED USING URBAN AREA SECURITY INITIATIVE GRANT FUNDING AND THEN THAT CONTRACT AMENDMENT COST 37,274 SO IT'S A TOTAL OF $297,000 A YEAR THAT WE'RE SPENDING ON SHOTSPOTTER I BELIEVE THAT'S CORRECT. BUT I HAVE TO CONFIRM THAT THAT WE SHOULD BE ADDING THOSE TWO TOGETHER. OKAY.  ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE IF MOST SHOTSPOTTER JUST BOUGHT HAVE A COLD 19 IN THE AREA WHO THEN VERIFY THE SHOTSPOTTER REPORT AND WHY DO WE NOT USE A FUNDS SPENT ON SHOTSPOTTER TO INCREASE PATROLS IN AREAS OF CONCERNS IS THAT THE SHOTSPOTTER REPORTING REFLECTIVE IN THE DATA REFLECTIVE ON DEPLOYMENT AND ALSO RESOURCES GIVEN TO THE PRECINCTS THAT HAVE THE HIGHEST CONCENTRATION OF GUN VIOLENCE WITH SHOTSPOTTER DATA AND I THINK EVERY CAPTAIN EVERY DISTRICT CAPTAIN IS GIVEN THE ABILITY TO DEPLOY BASED ON THE DATA THAT THEY AND AS RYAN SAID, THIS DATA IS AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY. IT'S IT'S TALKED ABOUT REGULARLY AT COMPSTAT AT DIFFERENT TYPES OF MEETINGS. SO EVERY CAPTAIN HAS THE ABILITY TO LOOK AT THAT ALONG WITH THE OTHER DATA THAT THEY HAVE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE ROBBERIES OR YOU KNOW, HOUSE BREAKS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND TO DEPLOY THEIR RESOURCES WITHIN THAT STATION AS THEY SEE FIT SO I AM SURE THAT EVERY CAPTAIN PUTS SHOTS FIRED INCIDENTS ESPECIALLY CONFIRMED SHOTS FIRED INCIDENTS OR SHOOTINGS AT THE TOP OF THAT LIST WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO DEPLOY CALLED 19 AND AND ANY OTHER KIND OF SPECIAL ASSIGNMENTS THAT THEY GIVE OUT AND A CODE 19 IS AT A TEMPORARY OR IS IT A FIXED POST OR HOW DO HOW DOES THAT WORK?  THE CODE 19 IS DEFINITELY A FIXED POST AND A LOT OF TIMES WE CAN ASSIGN A CODE 19 TO A PARTICULAR AREA IF THERE'S A PROBLEM AND THEY CAN ACTUALLY TAKE THEIR 911 CALLS FROM THE CODE 19 LOCATION BUT TRADITIONALLY IT'S ABOUT MAYBE A 30 MINUTE KIND OF TIME WHERE THE OFFICER CAN GET TO A LOCATION, GET OUT, INTERACT WITH THE COMMUNITY, INTERACT WITH BUSINESSES AND AND LIKE I SAID, TAKE THEIR CALLS RIGHT FROM THERE. IT COULD BE A FIXED CODE 19 OR IT COULD BE KIND OF LIKE A ROVING ONE WHERE THEY CAN ALSO TAKE DUE TO MANPOWER ISSUES THAT SOMETIMES THEY HAVE TO TAKE 911 CALLS AS WELL. RIGHT. AND I GUESS THAT'S MY QUESTION RIGHT KNOWING WHERE THE DATA AND WHERE GUN VIOLENCE IS HAPPENING. RIGHT. THE FACT THAT YOU KNOW, SOME CONSTITUENTS IN NEIGHBORHOODS WANT MORE COMMUNITY POLICING. THEY DON'T WANT SOMETIMES THEY HAVE THE INFORMATION ON WHO'S DRIVING THE VIOLENCE BEFORE GUNFIRE ACTUALLY HAPPENS AND THEY WANT TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS PRIOR TO GUNFIRE HAPPENING. SO THE MORE THAT WE CAN GET, YOU KNOW, THE RESOURCES AND COMMUNITY POLICING IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS I THINK WILL BE MORE OF AN EFFECTIVE APPROACH ESPECIALLY IN MY DISTRICT AND THAT'S WHAT A LOT OF MY CONSTITUENTS ARE CALLING FOR.  I DO KNOW JUST SORT OF I DO KNOW THAT I THIS SUMMER THAT THE MAYOR'S OFFICE COMMITTED ABOUT 200,000 EXTRA TO INVEST IN THE AREAS THAT WE'VE KIND OF IDENTIFIED THROUGH THESE TYPES OF DATA TO KIND OF ENGAGE IN MORE PRO-SOCIAL ACTIVITIES AND OUTREACH AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN THOSE VERY SPECIFICALLY NARROWLY TAILORED AREAS. WHEN YOU SAID 200,000 100,000 WE CAN GET YOU TO THE EXACT FIGURE AFTER YOU.  THANK YOU. AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE AGAIN THAT WE'RE NOT SHY ABOUT SHARING THIS. WE'RE NOT THIS IS BEING SHARED WITH ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC OR ANYONE ELSE TO SEE IT AND SO I THINK YOU KNOW, I THINK TO YOUR POINT, COUNCILOR , YOU KNOW THE ISSUE OF COMMUNITY POLICING, I THINK YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT IF THAT DISTRICT IF THAT PARTICULAR AREA THAT YOU SEE IS GETTING THAT KIND INCREASED SHOTS FIRED INCIDENTS, INCREASED GUNPLAY,  THAT'S A THAT'S AN ISSUE FOR THE COMMUNITY IF IT'S NOT BEING HANDLED ALREADY TO ADDRESS WHAT YOUR LOCAL COMMUNITY SERVICE OFFICER OR DIRECTLY TO THE CAPTAIN. SO SO I THINK I THINK YOU KNOW, THE POINT OF OF ALL THIS DATA IS THAT WE'RE NOT BEING SHY ABOUT IT AND WE'RE WILLING TO SHARE IT WITH ANY CITY AGENCY, ANYBODY OUT THERE THAT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WANTS TRY TO HELP THE COMMUNITY RIGHT NOW. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING. I THINK THE PANEL NEEDS TO BE MORE REFLECTIVE OF ALL CITY DEPARTMENTS WHO COULD LEND A HAND TO YOU KNOW, RESPOND BACK TO THE DATA AND NOT JUST THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BUT LOOK GREAT. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR . I'LL TURN THE FLOOR OVER.  COUNCILOR LIZ BREEDEN FROM DISTRICT NINE, YOU HAVE 5 MINUTES. THANK YOU AND THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE TODAY AND I'M SORRY FOR I HAD A PRIOR ENGAGEMENT AND IT WAS A LITTLE LATE FOR THIS FOR THE WHOLE HEARING THE TIMES OF HIGH HIGH INCIDENCE OF FIREWORKS AROUND THE FOURTH THE 4TH OF JULY THAT'S THE TIME WE HAVE A LOT OF INCREASED INCIDENCE OF OF FIREARMS ACTIVITY. WHAT DOES HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU CALIBRATE THIS SHOTSPOTTER AT A TIME WHEN THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER DATA COMING IN LIKE FIREWORKS GOING OFF LIKE DOES THAT JUST MAKE IT HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU FILTER THAT OUT SO THAT YOU GET A BETTER READ ON WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING? WELL IT'S AN INSIGHTFUL THAT'S AN INSIGHTFUL QUESTION.  HOLIDAYS OF CELEBRATION LIKE 4TH OF JULY ON NEW YEAR'S EVE ARE CHALLENGING FOR US BECAUSE OF THE LARGE NUMBER OF IMPULSIVE SOUNDS THAT ARE OCCURRING IN THE ENVIRONMENT WE USE THE TECHNOLOGY WE LEAN HEAVILY ON IT TO DO FILTERING OF SOUNDS THAT ARE NOT LIKELY GUNFIRE DESPITE THOSE CHALLENGES WE STILL DO PUBLISH ALERTS OF GUNFIRE THAT OCCUR ON THOSE THOSE OCCASIONS FOR SHOTSPOTTER WHEN WE PUBLISH AN ALERT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S ON THE OTHER END OF IT. IT COULD BE CELEBRATORY GUNFIRE, IT COULD BE HOMICIDAL GUNFIRE. IT'S UP TO THE POLICE TO RESPOND AND INVESTIGATE AND EVERY 4TH OF JULY AND EVERY NEW YEAR'S EVE WE PUBLISH ALERTS OF GUNFIRE AND WE GET REPORTS BACK FROM OUR CUSTOMERS WHERE THEY DO LOCATE.  IT IS CHALLENGING BUT WE STILL DO IT BECAUSE OUR CUSTOMERS I THINK DEPEND ON US EVEN IN THOSE DIFFICULT TIMES. YEAH, THE CONCEPT OF CELEBRATORY GUNFIRE IS RATHER I LIVE IN A DISTRICT WE DON'T I KNOW WE'VE DON'T PROBABLY HAVE SHOTSPOTTER IN DISTRICT IN THE CITY 14 IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD BUT I'M LYING IN MY BED AND THINKING OH THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE FIREWORKS THAT TRAGICALLY EVERY YEAR WE SEE INSTANCES THAT CAUSE EITHER PROPERTY DAMAGE OR WORSE. YEAH. SO AND THEN I'M ALSO WONDERING ABOUT IN BUILT UP AREAS WHERE YOU HAVE A LOT OF BUILDINGS IN TERMS OF ACOUSTIC DISTORTION LIKE HOME, WHAT'S THE INTENSITY OF SHOTSPOTTER TECHNOLOGY?  YOU KNOW, I KNOW IT'S VERY HARD TO LOCATE THE SOURCE OF A GUNSHOT. THE SOUND OF IT, WHERE IT'S COMING FROM IF YOU'RE IN A BUILT UP AREA WHERE THE SOUND JUST BOUNCES OFF THE BUILDINGS. I KNOW THAT FROM GROWING UP IN NORTHERN IRELAND IT'S LIKE THE HELL'S THAT COMING FROM? SO HOW DO WHAT'S THE TECHNOLOGY THAT THAT GIVES YOU A BETTER READ ON LOCATION UNLIKE A PERSON WHO IS STANDING IN ONE PLACE AND ONLY HEARS THE GUNFIRE FROM THAT SINGLE LOCATION THEY ARE. OUR SYSTEM USES A DISTRIBUTED ARRAY WHICH IS A FANCY WAY OF SAYING THAT WE HAVE SPREAD OUR SENSORS AROUND THE AREA AND SO OUR SYSTEM IS ONLY TRIGGERED WHEN THREE OR MORE SENSORS DETECT THE SAME LOUD IMPULSIVE SOUND MOST OF THE TIME FAR MORE THAN THREE SENSORS DETECTED.  WE PLACE OUR SENSORS IN HIGH LOCATIONS ABOVE THE STREET WHICH HELPS WITH OUR EFFICIENCY IN DETECTING GUNFIRE AS IT TRAVELS ACROSS THE URBAN LANDSCAPE AND BY MEASURING THAT TIME DIFFERENCE OF ARRIVAL THE SOUND REACHES DIFFERENT SENSORS AT DIFFERENT TIMES WE CAN USE A CALCULATION TO DETERMINE WHERE IT COMES FROM. OUR SYSTEM RELIES ON IT NEAR A LINE OF SIGHT. IT'S THE REASON THAT OUR ALERTS GIVE A 25 METER TOLERANCE AND THIS IS THE SORT OF THING THAT WE HAVE PUBLICLY DISCLOSED IN ACADEMIC PAPERS BECAUSE WE WE BELIEVE THAT OUR SCIENCE IS IS DEFENSIBLE AND WELL-ESTABLISHED. SO THAT'S HOW WE CAN TELL WHERE GUNFIRE COMES FROM, WHERE A PERSON MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SO IN ORDER TO BE EFFECTIVE YOU HAVE TO HAVE A PRETTY INTENSE DENSITY OF SENSORS IN A PARTICULAR AREA LIKE WELL, HOW MANY SENSORS HAVE WE HAVE YET DEPLOYED AND THERE'S NO PRECISE NUMBER AND SHOTSPOTTER AN OUTDOOR GUNSHOT DETECTION SYSTEM. SO WE DEPLOY OUR SENSORS AROUND A LARGE AREA. THAT'S ONE OF THE VALUES OF OUR SYSTEM. IT CAN COVER A LARGE AREA. THE NUMBER OF SENSORS CAN VARY BASED ON THINGS LIKE THE BUILT UP NATURE OF AN URBAN ENVIRONMENT. LARGER BUILDINGS MAY REQUIRE MORE SENSORS THAN, SAY A SAVANNAH IN A SOUTH AFRICAN WILDLIFE RESERVE WHERE SHOTSPOTTER IS DEPLOYED THERE TO DETECT A POACHING OF BLACK RHINOS. ON AVERAGE WE DEPLOY ROUGHLY TO 30 SENSORS ACROSS A SQUARE MILE 20 TO 30 IN A SQUARE MILE.  AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE BENEFITS IS THAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY ABLE TO CAPTURE TAKEN TO TAKE GUNS OFF THE STREET. DO WE HAVE ANY ANY DATA ON HOW MANY, MANY GUNS WE'VE RECOVERED AND FOLLOW UP A SHOTSPOTTER INVESTIGATIONS?  I THINK IT MIGHT BE JUST YOU KNOW, IS THIS SOMEBODY DISCHARGING A FIREARM IS IS WHETHER IT'S AIMED AT SOMEBODY TO KILL THEM OR WHETHER IT'S A CELEBRATORY SHOOTING WE STILL HAVE FIREARMS OUT THERE THAT HAVE BEEN USED INAPPROPRIATELY. HOW MANY HOW MANY FIREARMS THAT WE MANAGED TO CAPTURE AND PARTICULARLY HOW MANY GHOST GUNS AND WE MANAGED TO RECOVER . SO IN THE PRESENTATION TODAY I THINK PRETTY MUCH IN EACH EXAMPLE WE'VE RECOVERED AT LEAST ONE FIREARM AND SOME THREE YOU KNOW, WE HESITATE TO SORT OF ACCOUNT FOR THE CAPTURE OF ANY FIRE OR THE RECOVERY OF ANY FIREARM TO, YOU KNOW, ONE SPECIFIC TOOL. SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT TO SORT OF , YOU KNOW, DRAW THE STRAIGHT LINE BETWEEN SHOTSPOTTER AND AND THE RECOVERY . SO WE'VE WE KIND OF HAVEN'T REALLY PULLED THAT SORT OF DATA IN THAT WAY NECESSARILY BUT IT'S A HIGH PERCENTAGE I WOULD SAY.  AND HOW LONG HAS SHOTSPOTTER BEEN DEPLOYED IN BOSTON? HOW MANY YEARS ACTUALLY PRIOR TO MY TIME WHICH WAS IN 2012 AND 28 YEAR 20 YEARS AND HAVE YOU SEEN AN IMPROVEMENT THE ACCURACY AND THE EFFICACY OF OF THE TECHNOLOGY OVER THAT TIME?  I BELIEVE SO. YOU KNOW, SHOTSPOTTER HAS GONE THROUGH A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, METHODS OF HOW THE DIFFERENT SORT OF LEVELS OF REVIEW THAT OBVIOUSLY TIMES CAN PROVIDE. BUT I THINK JUST YOU KNOW FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF KIND OF BEING HERE FOR FOR 12 OR 13 YEARS I HAVE SEEN YOU KNOW, THAT SORT OF PROGRESSIONS A LOT OF THAT IS THROUGH OUR FEEDBACK TO THE COMPANY. SO YOU WERE VERY ACTIVE WHEN WE DO SEE A FALSE POSITIVE OR FALSE NEGATIVE AND PROVIDING THAT FEEDBACK TO THEM SO THAT WE'RE CONSTANTLY, YOU KNOW, TWEAKING THE SYSTEM TO MAKE SURE IT'S AS ACCURATE AS POSSIBLE. BUT I ALSO THINK THAT YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE IMPROVEMENTS IN THE TECHNOLOGY, THE MOBILE DEVICES, THE OFFICERS HAVING THAT RIGHT IN THEIR HAND I THINK THAT'S IMPROVED OUR ABILITY TO RESPOND QUICKLY AND RESPOND IN THE APPROPRIATE MANNER.  I THINK MY TIME'S UP. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. THANK YOU COUNCILOR , I'D LIKE TO TURN OVER THE FLOOR DOWN TO MY COLLEAGUE FROM DISTRICT TO COUNCILOR FLYNN. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.  THANK YOU TO THE PANEL FOR THE IMPORTANT WORK THAT YOU WERE DOING IN MY DISTRICT WHICH IS ONE OF THE MOST DIVERSE DISTRICTS IN THE CITY AND I REPRESENT THE LARGEST NUMBER OF RESIDENTS LIVING IN PUBLIC HOUSING IN THE CITY.  RESIDENTS ARE ASKING ME ALMOST DEMANDING FROM ME THEY WANT THIS TECHNOLOGY IN THE PUBLIC HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS. THEY WANT THIS IN NEIGHBORHOODS . THEY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH IT. THEY'RE ALSO ASKING ME THE SAYING COUNCIL FLYNN WE NEED MORE POLICE OFFICERS. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DELIVER MORE POLICE OFFICERS?  WE CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE AND FIGHT AND ENSURE THAT WE HAVE HAVE POLICE OFFICERS IN THE CITY BUT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH.  WE CONTINUE TO HAVE OFFICERS WORKING 16 HOURS A DAY CONSISTENTLY.  IT'S IMPACTING PUBLIC SAFETY. IT'S IMPACTING THEIR HEALTH,  THEIR FAMILIES AS WELL. I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THAT ISSUE WHICH IS WHICH I BELIEVE IS ALSO PART OF THIS ISSUE AS WELL. WE ALSO HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB OF RESPECTING OUR POLICE OFFICERS IN THEIR FAMILIES WERE PUTTING POLICE OFFICERS ON THE STREET WITH 15 HOURS ALREADY HAVE WORKED AND THEN WE EXPECT THEM TO MAKE THE BEST DECISIONS THEY POSSIBLY CAN. LIFE AND DEATH SITUATION IS UNFAIR TO THE POLICE, UNFAIR TO THE PUBLIC, UNFAIR TO THE POLICE OFFICER'S FAMILY AS WELL. THAT ALSO HAS TO BE A PRIORITY FOR THIS CITY COUNCIL . AGAIN, MY CONSTITUENTS ARE ASKING ME FOR THIS ESPECIALLY COMMUNITIES OF COLOR IN DISTRICT HOME. THEY WANT MORE OF THIS TECHNOLOGY.  THEY KNOW IT'S EFFECTIVE WITH THE COMBINATION OF MORE POLICE . IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE ABLE TO WORK ON?  WELL, WHAT IS YOUR SHORT TERM PLAN?  WHAT IS YOUR LONG TERM PLAN AS IT RELATES TO COMBINING BOTH OF THOSE ON THIS ISSUE?  I THINK I THINK YOU WOULD HAVE TO YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE ABOVE US. IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A UNIFIED EFFORT FROM THE CITY COUNCIL FOR THE FUNDING AND ALSO WITH YOU KNOW THAT TO I'M SURE THE POLICE COMMISSIONER WOULD HAVE TO BE INVOLVED. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'D LOVE TO SEE THAT HAPPEN BUT THAT AT OUR LEVEL IT'S SOMETHING IT'S ABOVE US AND YOU KNOW, WE WOULD SUPPORT IT 100%.  HONESTLY, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A LOT MORE THINGS. YES, WE'D LIKE TO SEE MORE COMMUNITY POLICING.  WE'D LIKE TO SEE MORE COMMUNITY CENTERS FOR OUR YOUTH AND COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE ANY COMMUNITY CENTERS. SO I THINK IT'S A HOLISTIC APPROACH AND WE SHOULD WE SHOULD AIM FOR THE STARS AND SOMETHING LIKE THAT IF WE IF WE HAVE A COLLABORATION WHERE WE HAVE A SCHOOL SYSTEM WHERE OUR KIDS CAN BE EDUCATED, THAT WOULD BE AN AWESOME THING TO HAVE ALSO.  BUT THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE ALL HAVE TO COME TOGETHER AND UNIFY AND UNITE SO THE CITY CAN ALSO THRIVE.  I WILL SAY COUNCILOR FROM THAT URBAN AREA SECURITY INITIATIVE GRANT PROGRAM YOU KNOW THAT THE JURISDICTIONAL POINTS OF CONTACT TO VOTE ON THE APPROVAL FOR THAT FUNDING HAVE PRIORITIZED THE EXPANSION OF SHOTSPOTTER SYSTEMS AND THE IMPLEMENTATION OF SHOTSPOTTER TO SOME EXTENT YOU KNOW WHERE THE COMMUNITY WOULD LIKE IT AND SO WE HAVE UTILIZED THAT FUNDING JUST LAST YEAR TO EXPAND OUR SYSTEM AND WE'VE ALREADY PREPARED SOME PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS TO ASSIST THE DEPARTMENT IN KIND OF IDENTIFYING THOSE AREAS WHERE, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL FUTURE EXPANSION COULD BE SO THAT YOU KNOW, IS ADDITIONAL FUNDING FROM THE REGULAR BUDGET OR ADDITIONAL GRANT FUNDING TO COME AVAILABLE.  YOU KNOW, WE'RE READY TO IMPLEMENT BASED ON A DATA DRIVEN STRATEGY TO DETECT MORE GUNSHOTS AND GET TO VICTIMS MORE QUICKLY, HAVE YOU HAVE YOU RECEIVED CALLS EMAILS FROM NEIGHBORHOOD ORGANIZATIONS ASKING BOSTON POLICE NOT TO IMPLEMENT THIS TECHNOLOGY IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD?  I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY JUST THE OPPOSITE TO BE HONEST. YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S MY EXPERIENCE AS WELL AND I HIGHLIGHT THAT BECAUSE I'M IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT I GOT MOST OF MY COLLEAGUES EVERY DAY AND EVERY NIGHT AND RESIDENTS ARE ASKING ME THEY'RE SAYING FLYNN WE NEED THIS TECHNOLOGY HERE. WE NEED MORE POLICE ON THE STREET. WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POLICE ON THE STREET. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? FLYNN AND THEY'RE ALL FAIR QUESTIONS ARE LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS TO ASK ELECTED OFFICIALS AND THEY'RE HOLDING US ACCOUNTABLE.  BUT BUT HERE I AM I'M ASKING FOR MORE OF THIS TECHNOLOGY IN MY DISTRICT. I KNOW MY DISTRICT WANTS IT THE SOUTH END VERY DIVERSE.  THE PUBLIC HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS THROUGHOUT SOUTH BOSTON.  MARY ELLEN MCCORMICK WE HAD SEVERAL SHOOTINGS THERE THIS SUMMER IN FACT WE HAD A YOUTH PROGRAM AND MARY ELLEN MCCORMICK WHO WAS THERE FOR TWO DAYS AND THERE WAS GUNSHOT GUNSHOTS THAT JUST MISSED THE KIDS IN THE VAN AND IN THE NONPROFIT LEFT.  I DON'T BLAME THEM BUT THEY LEFT THE AREA BECAUSE OF THE GUNSHOTS.  SO MY POINT IS, YOU KNOW, WE CAN WE CAN DEAL WITH PUBLIC SAFETY BUT WE NEED THIS TECHNOLOGY. WE NEED COMMUNITY POLICING.  WE NEED MORE POLICE OFFICERS. WE ALSO AS A SOCIETY AS ELECTED OFFICIALS IN MY OPINION, I THINK WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF SHOWING RESPECT FOR POLICE OFFICERS IN THEIR FAMILIES. WE CAN'T GO AROUND CRITICIZING THEM ALL THE TIME FOR ANY TYPE OF INFRACTION AND THEN EXPECT SAFE STREETS, HEALTHY STREETS, HEALTHY NEIGHBORHOODS. IT'S ABOUT A PARTNERSHIP AND WHEN WE WORK TOGETHER AND RESPECT EACH OTHER AND LISTEN TO EACH OTHER, THAT'S WHEN PROGRESS IS MADE AND BY NEGATIVE COMMENTS THAT WE'RE ALWAYS HEARING ABOUT POLICE, I THINK IT ALSO IMPACTS MORALE. I THINK IT ALSO IMPACTS RETENTION, RECRUITMENT AND PUBLIC SAFETY. IT'S NOT HEALTHY FOR A CITY.  THANK YOU, MR CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR . WE'VE ALSO BEEN WELCOMED BY COUNCILOR FITZGERALD. WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO AHEAD AND ASK YOU ABOUT THE QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW? IF NOT I'LL GO AHEAD AND ASK FINE.  I'LL SEND BACK MY TIME FOR THE MOMENT. THANK YOU.  I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR . UM, OKAY, GREAT.  SO I'LL PUT MY TIME ON AGAIN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR BEING HERE AND REALLY APPRECIATE MY COUNCIL COLLEAGUES QUESTIONS.  I WANT TO GO BACK TO ONE QUESTION THAT MY COLLEAGUES FROM DISTRICT FIVE COUNCILOR PEPPERED AND I THINK IT WAS DIRECTED AT YOU DEPUTY BROWN IT'S BEEN MENTIONED TODAY IN TERMS OF RIGHT THAT THIS TECHNOLOGY IS USED IN MULTIPLE MULTIPLE REASONS TRY TO YOU KNOW BUT ONE OF THEM AS I HEARD IT IS TO ALSO ARREST OFFENDERS . CAN YOU WALK ME THROUGH THE PROCESS AND I KNOW THAT EVEN IN THE THE VIDEO THAT YOU DISPLAYED EARLIER I BELIEVE THERE WAS A RESIDENT CALLING THAT THEY SAW FOUR PEOPLE RUNNING. AND CAN YOU JUST WALK ME THROUGH SPECIFICALLY WHEN WHEN TALKING ABOUT ARRESTING OFFENDERS THE PROCESS OF WHEN YOU RECEIVED THE GUN, THE SHOTSPOTTER DETECTION AND YOUR RECEIVING CALLS MAYBE OF DESCRIPTIONS OR YOU KNOW, WHATEVER WHAT AN OFFICER ACTUALLY DOES ON THE GROUND WITH THAT. SO IN PARTICULAR FOR THAT THE EXAMPLE THAT YOU SHOWED A RESIDENT CALLED US THAT THEY SAW FOUR PEOPLE RUNNING SO THE OFFICERS NOW LOOKING FOR FOUR PEOPLE IN A GROUP ARE THEY LOOK CAN YOU JUST WALK ME THROUGH THAT PROCESS AND THAT WAS YOU KNOW, A FOLLOW UP TO THAT QUESTION IS ALSO YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS USED I MEAN THE TECHNOLOGY IS BEING USED IN MOSTLY OUR BLACK AND BROWN NEIGHBORHOODS USED AS YOU KNOW ,SAID TO BE THAT YOU KNOW, THE HIGHEST GUNSHOT DETECTION IN THE CITY.  WHAT EFFECTS DOES THIS HAVE ON OUR BLACK AND BROWN RESIDENTS?  RIGHT. I MEAN AND AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THIS EXAMPLE WHEN THERE'S RESIDENTS CALLING FOR PEOPLE YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE APPROACH FOR THE FOR OFFICERS WHEN WE'RE INTERACTING WITH RESIDENTS AND WE WE DO WE KEEP ANY OF THAT DATA AS A PART OF THIS SO IT'S A MULTI FACETED QUESTION BUT I'LL START OUT BY SAYING WHEN THE SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVATION GOES OFF AND DEPUTY MCLAUGHLIN CAN ASSIST ME IF I MISS ANYTHING WITH THIS YOU HAVE A RESPONSE BY PATROL OFFICERS WHO RESPOND TO THE SCENE THEY LOCATE EVIDENCE OR WHATEVER MAY BE GOING ON THERE, ESTABLISH A CRIME SCENE AT THAT SAME TIME WHEN SHOTSPOTTER GOES OFF, DETECTIVES ALSO RESPOND.  SO IF THERE'S INFORMATION ABOUT A SUSPECT OFF A SUSPECT, STOP YOU MAY EVEN CONDUCT A WHOLE BRING BACK IDENTIFICATION TYPE INTERVIEW RIGHT THERE IN THE STREET. SO IT'S KIND OF A MULTILAYERED INVESTIGATION THAT GOES ON WHEN SHOTSPOTTER IS ACTIVATED, IT'S NOT JUST A PATROLMAN. IT CAN BE THE PATROLMAN. IT WILL BE A SUPERVISOR.  IT WILL BE MULTIPLE DETECTIVES. IT COULD BE THE WHAT YOU HEARD ON ONE OF THE CALLS THE TANGO GOLD CARS. THOSE ARE THE ARMED SWAT TEAMS THAT COME OUT AND THEY HAVE THE EXTRA, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT WE NEED IN CASE THERE'S AN ACTIVE SHOOTER TYPE SITUATION. SO THAT'S KIND OF THE WHOLE RESPONSE THAT GOES ON IT EVERYTHING CAN STOP AFTER THESE SHOTS ARE FIRED. RIGHT. WE DON'T NEED TO REALLY DO MUCH NOW WE'RE GOING TO START MOVING INTO THE INVESTIGATION PHASE AND THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED.  AS FAR AS THE FACT THE QUESTION YOU HAD BROUGHT UP ABOUT BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES AND THE SHOOTINGS THAT HAVE GONE ON UNFORTUNATELY IN THAT TRIANGLE THAT'S BEEN THERE SINCE NOT THE TRIANGLE KIND OF THAT THAT WHOLE STRIP THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FROM THE SOUTH END ALL THE WAY THROUGH ROXBURY, DORCHESTER INTO MATTAPAN.  DEPUTY MCLAUGHLIN I WERE IN HOMICIDE FOR MANY YEARS AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S WHERE OUR HOMICIDES TOOK PLACE AND THOSE ARE THE FAMILIES THAT WE HAD TO DEAL WITH FOR MANY, MANY YEARS AND WE'RE STILL DEALING WITH TO THIS DAY. SO THE EFFECTS ON THE BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES THAT HAPPENED IN ROXBURY, MATTAPAN AND DORCHESTER A TRAGIC YOU KNOW, IN 2010 I HAD THE WHAT WAS DUBBED THE MATTAPAN MASSACRE SOMETHING THAT STILL WITH ME AND MY FAMILY SO THESE THINGS DON'T JUST AFFECT WHAT GOES ON IN THE COMMUNITY IT AFFECTS THE OFFICERS WHO RESPOND TO THESE THINGS AND RESPECTS IT. IT AFFECTS THE INVESTIGATORS, IT AFFECTS EVERYONE FROM THE POLICE COMMISSIONER ON DOWN AND BECAUSE THIS CITY IS SO CLOSE AND THE WAY I SEE IT AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN HERE FOR 30 PLUS YEARS IT AFFECTS ALL OF US AS A COMMUNITY. THIS CITY IS SMALL. IT REALLY HAS BECOME LIKE A TOWN. IT'S REALLY NOT A CITY ANYMORE. IT'S MORE LIKE A TOWN.  EVERYONE KNOWS EACH OTHER HERE IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER THROUGH ONE WAY OR AN INCIDENT HAPPENS. IT BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER LIKE I SAID DURING THE MATTAPAN MASSACRE THING THAT I HAD OVER ON BOYLSTON STREET AND ALL THE OTHER HOMICIDES THAT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH AND DEPUTY MCLAUGHLIN BEEN INVOLVED WITH IT AFFECTS US ALL ON SO MANY DIFFERENT LEVELS AND IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO TRY TO IDENTIFY THESE PEOPLE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, MAKE THE ARRESTS AND TRY TO MOVE TOWARDS HEALING THE COMMUNITIES.  I THINK JUST COULD ADD YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT I THINK WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS KIND OF WHAT'S THE YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE PROCESS THAT HAPPENS AND IT'S HARD TO START FOR US SITTING HERE TO KIND OF DESCRIBE SOMETHING THAT WE WEREN'T PART OF BUT IN A SENSE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IF I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION CORRECTLY IS THAT THE THE THE THE IDEA OF HOW DO YOU GET TO A CERTAIN SPOT, CALL IT REASONABLE SUSPICION OR PROBABLE CAUSE. AND I THINK WHAT YOU SEE AND WHAT YOU HEAR IN SOME OF THOSE THAT THE THE AUDIO OF THE OFFICERS IS YOU START SEEING THOSE BUILDING BLOCKS THAT THAT GIVES YOU THE NECESSARY REASONABLE SUSPICION OR PROBABLE CAUSE TO TAKE ACTION WHETHER IT'S TO STOP SOMEBODY AND FRISK THEM OR WHETHER IT'S TO STOP THEM AND ARREST THEM.  SO I MEAN I THINK THAT'S WHERE YOU THAT'S WHERE YOU KIND OF START WITH THE SHOTSPOTTER ACTIVATION AS A WAY TO GET YOU THERE AND TO START LOOKING AT THE SCENE. BUT IT'S REALLY WHAT THAT NINE ON ONE CALL IS SAYING I SAW FOUR GUYS GOING IN THIS DIRECTION A DESCRIPTION OF WHAT THEY'RE WEARING. I THINK AS I SAID ON THAT PARTICULAR ONE ON AN INDIVIDUAL STREET YOU COULD HEAR A DETECTIVE COME ON AND START TALKING ABOUT IT. TO ME IT WAS OBVIOUS HE WAS ON ONE OF THE VIDEO SYSTEMS ALREADY HE'S LOOKING AT FOUR PEOPLE GOING IN A CERTAIN DIRECTION SO IT'S REALLY PROBABLE CAUSE.  REASONABLE SUSPICION IS THAT BUILDING BLOCK THAT GETS YOU THERE AND THAT'S WHAT OFFICERS DOING CONSTANTLY. EVENTUALLY DETECTIVES GET THERE AND THEY DO IT AS WELL.  BUT THAT INITIAL RESPONSE IS ABOUT OBSERVATIONS, WITNESS STATEMENTS, EVIDENCE FOLLOWING THAT EVIDENCE TO POTENTIALLY AN ARREST AND THEN BEING ABLE TO SUPPORT IT IN COURT WHEN IT COMES TO A MOTION OF SUPPRESSED OR AT A TRIAL. SO SO IT'S REALLY BUILDING ON EVERYTHING AND I THINK IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SHOTSPOTTER AND THAT DOES PROVIDE THAT KIND OF BEGINNING NEXUS TO THE CRIME THAT'S YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE YOU START BUILDING I WOULD JUST TO TWO OTHER THINGS TO POINT OUT REALLY QUICKLY, COUNCILOR LIKE IN THE RADIO TRANSMISSIONS YOU HEAR THE OFFICERS ARE VERY CALM PART OF THEIR TRAINING RIGHT WE'RE NOT AND NO ONE IS YOU KNOW HIGH IT'S OBVIOUSLY A HIGH POTENTIALLY HIGH STRESS SITUATION BUT THE OFFICERS ARE SPEAKING CALMLY RECEIVING INFORMATION FROM THE DISPATCHER REVIEWING THEIR INFORMATION THAT THEY GET FROM THE SHOTSPOTTER SYSTEM. AND THEN YOU ALSO HEAR, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE FIRST STEPS ARE TRYING TO IDENTIFY WITNESSES ON THE SCENE, NOT JUST STOPPING EVERYBODY WHO'S MOVING IN THAT AREA BUT TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO THEY DO SEE THERE TO IDENTIFY, YOU KNOW, WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED HERE AND THEN, YOU KNOW, TAKING THOSE ADDITIONAL STEPS. SO I THINK THOSE ARE TWO IMPORTANT THINGS TO POINT OUT AS WELL. GREAT.  NO, THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT. I APPRECIATE THAT. I KNOW MY WAS UP AND I'D LIKE TO ASK AGAIN, YOU KNOW, REALLY THANK ALL OF OUR PANELISTS HERE. I'D LIKE TO ASK AGAIN THAT ALL OF OUR FIRST PANELISTS PLEASE REMAIN AVAILABLE IN THE CHAMBER PLEASE.  SO SORRY WE'VE ALSO BEEN JOINED BY MY COLLEAGUE FROM DISTRICT A COUNCILOR DURKIN.  WE ARE HE'S DOING ONE ROUND WITH THIS PANEL JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE ANOTHER PANEL AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE LOTS A SECOND HEARING THIS AFTERNOON BUT THERE WILL BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYONE IF EVERYONE CAN STILL REMAIN THROUGHOUT THIS WHEN WE OPEN UP FOR QUESTIONS YOU CAN DIRECT YOUR QUESTIONS TO THE CURRENT PANEL RIGHT NOW AND THEY CAN COME UP. I THINK WHAT I DO WANT TO GIVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MY TO MY COLLEAGUE IF YOU HAVE ANY FINAL REMARKS ARE QUESTIONS FOR THIS PANEL. THANK YOU SO MUCH CHAIR SANTANA AND YOU'LL NOTICE I SENT AN ABSENCE LETTER BECAUSE I WASN'T EXPECTING THAT I'D BE ABLE TO MAKE THIS HEARING BECAUSE I JUST GOT BACK FROM A HOSPITAL TOUR.  BUT I'M GRATEFUL FOR THE PANEL FOR BEING HERE. I THINK IN OUR CITY WE'VE HEARD A LOT OF DIFFERENT RHETORIC ON BOTH SIDES OF LIKE HOW SOUND THINKING AND SHOTSPOTTER INTERACTS WITH OUR COMMUNITIES AND YOU KNOW, I DID TOWARD THE BRAC I SAW SORT OF SOME OF HOW THIS TECHNOLOGY IS USED IN OUR CITY AND I THINK ON MY END I THINK THAT THIS NEEDS A LOT OF REVIEW AND ATTENTION AND I'M GRATEFUL TO THE CHAIR AND TO THE SPONSORS FOR BRINGING THIS TO OUR ATTENTION. I THINK AT THIS TIME YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I NEED TO REVIEW WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID I DON'T WANT TO ASK A TON OF QUESTIONS THAT MAY HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED. AND I KNOW YOU KNOW, I HAVE HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH THE POLICE COMMISSIONER ABOUT THIS TECHNOLOGY AND HE HAS SHARED ON HIS END THAT HE THINKS IT'S CRITICAL TO PUBLIC SAFETY IN OUR CITY. I THINK A LOT OF OUR COLLEAGUES ARE UNCONVINCED THAT THAT THIS IS NEEDED AND THEN I HAVE OTHER COLLEAGUES WHO THINK THAT THIS IS I HAVE NOT REALLY TAKEN A POSITION ON SOUND THINKING AND SHOTSPOTTER BUT THERE I HAVE READ A LOT OF LETTERS OF CONCERN FROM FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS SO I'VE TAKEN THOSE AND I'M TAKING THOSE INTO ACCOUNT AND LOOK FORWARD TO REVIEWING THE FIRST PART OF THIS HEARING WHEN IT BECOMES AVAILABLE. THANK YOU.  THANK YOU, COUNCILOR DEREK AND I ALSO JUST WANT TO GIVE SOME TIME TO MY COUNCILOR COLLEAGUE DISTRICT THREE COUNCILOR FITZGERALD, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, CHAIR AND AGAIN I DON'T WANT TO ASK HAVING MISSED AND I APOLOGIZE FOR HAVING TO MISS THAT WE WERE DEALING WITH A THE CLOSURE OF THE CARNEY HOSPITAL UP AT THE STATE HOUSE WHICH IS WHERE MOST A LOT OF PEOPLE GO AFTER THEY GET SHOT.  RIGHT. AND SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE CAN SAVE THE LIVES ON THAT END TOO. SO I APOLOGIZE FOR MISSING OUT ON ON THE THE PRESENTATION. AND SO I WON'T PRETEND TO KNOW SPECIFIC QUESTIONS TO ASK BUT WE'LL REVIEW THE TAPE. I DO WANT TO SAY THANK YOU GUYS FOR DOING IT AGAIN. AS I SAID IN MY OPENING REMARKS ,I DO BELIEVE SHOTSPOTTER IS A NECESSARY TOOL.  IT SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON SOLELY AS THE ONLY TOOL WE HAVE BUT IN CONJUNCTION WITH OTHER TOOLS AS WELL. AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THE REPORTS THAT GIVE US THE INFORMATION THAT CAN DICTATE WHERE OUR RESOURCES WHERE WE CAN BETTER GUIDE RESOURCES TO THE COMMUNITY TO PREVENT FURTHER SHOOTINGS.  WE HAVE THE TOP POLICE FORCE IN THE NATION AND I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS ARE ALWAYS LOOKING TO CONTINUE TO IMPROVE. SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT IT HAS ON NEIGHBORHOODS AND HOW THEY SHOW UP AND HOW WE RESPOND TO CALLS, WE WILL CONTINUE TO LOOK HOW TO DO THAT BETTER AND BE LESS CREATE LESS TRAUMA IN THAT COMMUNITY WHEN DOING SO. I DON'T HAVE ANY SOLUTIONS OR IDEAS AT THE MOMENT BUT I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU GUYS ON THAT. I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THERE IS A RESPECT FACTOR TO THOSE CURRENT NEIGHBORHOODS BUT ALSO A SAFETY FACTOR THAT WE HAVE TO RESPOND TO AND YOU GUYS DO THAT VERY WELL.  SO AGAIN, I KNOW A LOT OF THESE QUESTIONS ARE PROBABLY OF MORE QUESTIONS FOR OUR SECOND HOUR 2:00 HEARING. BUT THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND AGAIN, JUST REITERATING WE THINK IT'S A NECESSARY TOOL WHEN IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE OTHER TOOLS THAT WE HAVE TO PROVIDE FOR YOU GUYS. SO THANK YOU ALL.  THANK YOU, COUNSELOR. SO AGAIN, I WANT TO THANK OUR FIRST PANEL REALLY HIRING HER ENCOURAGE YOU ALL TO STAY HERE AND ALL MY COUNCIL COLLEAGUES HAVE FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR YOU BUT FOR THE INTEREST OF TIME AND BECAUSE WE ALSO HAVE ANOTHER HEARING THIS AFTERNOON, I DO WANT TO BRING IN OUR SECOND PANEL FOR THEM TO GO OVER THEIR PRESENTATION AND THEN WE CAN OPEN THE FLOOR FOR OUR COUNCIL COLLEAGUES TO ASK QUESTIONS TO ANY ANY OF OUR PANELISTS FROM THAT INCLUDING YOU ALL.  SO THANK YOU FOR A SECOND PANEL. WE HAVE DR. ERIC PIZZA, DR. DANIEL LAWRENCE, DIRECTOR CADE CRAWFORD AND CHAIR ALEX MATTHEWS. AS A REMINDER, DR. LAWRENCE IS HERE WITH US TODAY VIA ZOOM FOR OUR OTHER THREE PANELISTS YOU CAN PLEASE BE SEATED AT THE TABLE. THANK YOU.  HOW'S IT GOING ALONG?  GREAT. THANK YOU.  FOR MY COLLEAGUES BECAUSE THERE'S AN OFTEN AN ADVOCATE PANEL I JUST WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT DR. PISA AND DR. LAWRENCE ARE PROFESSIONAL RESEARCHERS WHO HAVE CONDUCTED EXTENSIVE PEER REVIEWED RESEARCH INCLUDING SEVERAL PUBLICATIONS AND REPUTABLE ACADEMIC JOURNALS.  THEY'VE ALSO OFFERED TO SHARE SOME OF THE INSIGHTS OVER PEER REVIEWED PRE-PUBLICATION STUDIES SO THAT WE HAVE SOME OF THE LATEST RESEARCH AVAILABLE AVAILABLE TO US TODAY. SOME OF DR. LAWRENCE'S WORK IN PARTICULAR IS AVAILABLE IN THE FOLDER THAT CENTRAL STAFF HAS SHARED IT WITH ALL COUNSELORS AND STAFF FOR THIS HEARING.  DR. PISA AND DR. LAWRENCE WILL NOT BE EXPRESSING THEIR OPINIONS OR ARGUING IN FAVOR OR OPPOSITION OF ANY POINT. RATHER THEY WILL SIMPLY BE PRESENTING THE OBJECTIVE OBSERVATIONS AND INSIGHTS FROM DATA COLLECTED DURING THEIR VARIOUS PEER REVIEWED RESEARCH STUDIES.  THE CO-SPONSORS OFFICE AND MY OFFICE HAVE BOTH HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO PREVIEW THIS INFORMATION AND MEET WITH THE PANELISTS.  AND AS CHAIR, I AM CONFIDENT THAT THE STUDIES PRESENT DIVERSE INSIGHTS THAT DO NOT ALIGN TO ANY PARTICULAR VIEWPOINT ON THIS TECHNOLOGY. WITH THAT I'D LIKE TO ASK DR. PETER TO INTRODUCE HIMSELF AND SHARE OPENING REMARKS ON HIS RESEARCH FIRST. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN . FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION TO COME HERE. AS PROFESSORS FAR TOO OFTEN WE'RE KIND OF LOCKED BEHIND OUR OFFICES IN THE IVORY TOWER.  MY IVORY TOWER IS RIGHT THERE ON HOSTING AVENUE, SO IT'S A NEARBY IVORY TOWER BUT IT COULD BE AN IVORY TOWER NONETHELESS. SO IT'S REALLY GOOD TO KIND OF HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY AND TALK ABOUT THE RESEARCH FINDINGS FOR THE EXPLICIT PURPOSE OF OF POTENTIALLY INFORMING PRACTICE. I WANT TO START MY STOPWATCH OVER HERE BECAUSE AS A PROFESSOR IT'S IN MY JOB DESCRIPTION TO GO ON TANGENTS AND BABBLE. SO I'M GOING TO TRY TO REIN MYSELF IN AND MAKE SURE THAT I GET THROUGH THIS OVERVIEW IN A FEW MINUTES. FIRST OF ALL I DID PROVIDE I BROUGHT SOME HARD COPIES TODAY OF SOME HANDOUTS OF THE FIRST ONE IS AN OP ED THAT WAS PUBLISHED TWO DAYS AGO WHERE I PROVIDE AN OVERVIEW OF THE RESEARCH THAT MY COLLEAGUES AND I HAVE BEEN CONDUCTING IN KANSAS CITY AND CHICAGO FOR THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS AND THERE'S ALSO RESEARCH BRIEFS OF FIVE PEER REVIEWED ARTICLES ALSO INCLUDED IN THE HANDOUTS ELECTRONIC VERSIONS OF ALL OF THOSE ARE AVAILABLE ON MY WEBSITE. SO MY WEBSITE IS ERIC PS A DOT NET RIGHT UNDER HOME PAGE THERE'S A LINK TO THE OP ED AND THE OP ED ALSO HAS LINKS TO PAGE ON MY WEBSITE WHERE ALL THE MATERIALS CAN BE DOWNLOADED FOR FREE IN ELECTRONIC FORMAT. ALSO FOR THOSE OF YOU INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT THE ORIGINAL STUDIES, OPEN ACCESS VERSIONS OF ALL OF THE ORIGINAL STUDIES ARE ALSO FREELY AVAILABLE ON THE WEBSITE FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO NERD OUT I SUPPOSE AND REALLY DIVE INTO THE FULL 30 PAGE RESEARCH REPORTS.  COUPLE OF THINGS I WANT TO SPECIFY TOO BEFORE GETTING IN. I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE CHICAGO OIG REPORT.  THE CITY OF CHICAGO HAS DONE A LOT OF INTERNAL OVERVIEW OF THEIR SHOTSPOTTER THAT I JUST WANTED TO SPECIFY THAT THIS IS COMPLETELY SEPARATE FROM WHATEVER THE CITY OF CHICAGO DID. SO OUR RESEARCH WAS FUNDED BY THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF JUSTICE, THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF JUSTICE IS THE RESEARCH ARM OF THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND WE HAVE NO AFFILIATION WITH THE REPORTS THAT THE CITY OF CHICAGO GENERATED.  SO WITH ALL OF THAT AS PREAMBLE I WARNED YOU PROFESSORS LIKE TO BABBLE WHAT DID WE DO IN BOTH OF THE CITIES AND WHAT DID WE FIND? SO WE STARTED THIS PROJECT IN 2020 BUT WE ALL REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED IN THE YEAR 2020. WE ALL THOUGHT THE WORLD WAS GOING TO END SO WE REALLY DIDN'T DIVE INTO THE RESEARCH UNTIL EARLY 2021.  WHAT I FIRST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT WAS THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT THE CITIES OF KANSAS CITY AND CHICAGO DEPLOYED SHOTSPOTTER IN KANSAS CITY IDENTIFIED AN APPROXIMATELY THREE AND A HALF SQUARE MILE TARGET AREA THAT THEY OUTFITTED WITH SHOTSPOTTER SENSORS IN 2012 AND TO THIS DAY IT REMAINS UNCHANGED.  RIGHT? SO THEY IDENTIFIED A TARGET AREA AND EXPAND CHICAGO DID SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT IN 2012.  THEY ALSO IDENTIFIED AN APPROXIMATELY THREE SQUARE MILE TARGET AREA. THEY INSTALLED SHOTSPOTTER THERE BEGINNING IN 2017. HOWEVER, THEY DRASTICALLY EXPANDED THE COVERAGE OF THEIR SYSTEM BY THE END OF 2018 OVER 136 SQUARE MILES WERE COVERED IN CHICAGO. SO I JUST LIKE TO OFFER THAT PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE WE DID ONE LARGE STUDIES ON TWO DIFFERENT CITIES THAT HAD PRETTY DIFFERENT COMMITMENTS TO SHOTSPOTTER. SO OUR STUDY WE BELIEVE IS THE LARGEST STUDY EVER CONDUCTED ON THIS TECHNOLOGY. SO WE HAD OVER 15 YEARS WORTH OF DATA FOR BOTH CITIES. WE HAD A LOT OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF DATA SO WE HAD DATA ON CRIME ON CITIZEN CALLS FOR SERVICE ON SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS. OBVIOUSLY WE HAD INFORMATION ON BALLISTIC EVIDENCE AND WHAT SEPARATES OUR RESEARCH FROM A LOT OF PRIOR RESEARCH HAS BEEN DONE. WE ALSO HAD AUTOMATED VEHICLE LOCATOR DATA FOR BOTH CITIES SO ESSENTIALLY AUTOMATED VEHICLE LOCATORS ARE SIMPLE. WELL SIMPLE IS PROBABLY OVERSTATING IT VERY BUT IT'S ESSENTIALLY GPS TRACKERS TRACKERS IN POLICE OFFICER VEHICLES. SO THAT ALLOWS US TO UNDERSTAND AND IDENTIFY WHERE ALL PATROL CARS IN BOTH CITIES ARE AT 15 SECOND INTERVALS. RIGHT. SO THAT GIVES US A REALLY GRANULAR LOOK AT POLICE PRESENCE. OUR RESEARCH FINDINGS KEEP OUR RESEARCH FINDINGS COULD BE KIND OF BROKEN INTO TWO BUCKETS. SO WE HAVE RESEARCH FINDINGS PERTAINING TO THE PROCEDURAL ASPECTS AND THE PROCESS OF IDENTIFYING AND RESPONDING TO SOUNDS OF GUNFIRE. AND WE ALSO HAVE OTHER RESEARCH THAT SPEAKS MORE TO THE CRIME PREVENTION AND INVESTIGATIVE OUTCOMES ASSOCIATED WITH THE TECHNOLOGY.  AND SO WHAT DID WE FIND IN THE PROCESS SIDE SHOULD ALSO NOTE THAT GIVEN DATA DIFFERENCES AND THE DIFFERING DATA SYSTEMS OF THE AGENCIES FOR SOME RESEARCH QUESTIONS WE WERE ONLY ABLE TO PURSUE THE ANALYSIS IN ONE CITY BUT NOT THE OTHER. SO WHEN YOU HEAR ME SAY SOMETHING ABOUT KANSAS CITY BUT NOT CHICAGO OR VICE VERSA, THAT'S WHY IT'S WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE NECESSARY DATA IN THE OTHER CITY IN KANSAS CITY WE FOUND THAT SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS WENT OFF ABOUT 93 SECONDS PRIOR TO THEIR FIRST 911 CALL TO COME IN ABOUT THE SHOT.  SO ESSENTIALLY WE'RE LOOKING AT ABOUT A MINUTE AND A HALF FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM HEAD START THE KANSAS CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS IN IDENTIFYING AND RESPONDING TO GUNFIRE SOUNDS IN THEIR CITY. HOW DO WE CONTEXTUALIZE 93 SECONDS? IS THAT A BIG DEAL OR NOT? RIGHT. I THINK THE SHORT ANSWER IS WHENEVER YOU COULD RESPOND TO A POTENTIAL GUNFIRE VICTIM QUICKER, IT'S A BIG DEAL. BUT 93 SECONDS REPRESENTS ABOUT 12% OF THE AVERAGE POLICE RESPONSE, EMS RESPONSE AND EMS VICTIM TRANSPORT TO THE NEAREST HOSPITAL.  SO THINKING ABOUT IT LIKE THAT, THE 93 SECONDS SAVES 12% OFF OF THAT TOTAL TIME ON AVERAGE.  WE ALSO FOUND OUT SHOTSPOTTER MAY PROVIDE RESPONDING POLICE OFFICERS A LITTLE BIT MORE PRECISE INFORMATION ABOUT THE LOCATION OF GUNFIRE. SO USING THE GPS TRACKERS THAT WE FOUND IN BOTH KANSAS CITY AND CHICAGO WE FOUND A FEW THINGS. ONE POLICE OFFICERS RESPONDED QUICKER TO SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS THAN THEY DID 911 CALLS FOR SERVICE REPORTING SOUNDS OF GUNFIRE.  POLICE VEHICLES STOPPED MORE OFTEN ON SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS THAN THEY DID FOR 911 CALLS OF SOUNDS OF GUNFIRE POLICE VEHICLES STOPPED CLOSER TO THE CRIME SCENE WHEN RESPONDING TO SHOTSPOTTER CALLS AS COMPARED TO 911 CALLS FOR SERVICE THE MOST RECENT STUDY THAT WE PUBLISHED ACTUALLY JUST CAME OUT A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WHERE WE LOOKED A LITTLE CLOSER ABOUT THIS NOTION OF ENFORCEMENT,  PARTICULARLY THE VERY SERIOUS ISSUE OF POTENTIAL OVER ENFORCEMENT IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR. WE LOOKED AT THIS IN CHICAGO AS ONE OF THE COUNSELORS MENTIONED BEFORE HE GOT A HEAD START ON PRESENTING THIS SECTION. SO ESSENTIALLY THERE'S TWO SIDES TO THE DEBATE ON THE OVERPOLICING DEBATE CRITICS TEND TO SAY THAT SHOTSPOTTER IS INSTALLED IN PLACES THAT HAVE DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBERS OF BLACK OR BROWN RESIDENTS HAVE HIGHER SOCIAL DISADVANTAGE SUCH AS POVERTY.  THE COMMON POLICE RESPONSE TO THAT IS THAT IS ALSO THE AREA WHERE GUNFIRE CONCENTRATES IN BOTH CHICAGO AND KANSAS CITY. WE FOUND THAT AND I DON'T THINK I'M SHOCKING ANYONE HERE BOTH OF THOSE THINGS ARE TRUE, RIGHT? SO ESSENTIALLY THE SHOTSPOTTER SYSTEMS ARE INSTALLED IN PLACES THAT HAVE HIGHER NONWHITE POPULATIONS IN PLACES THAT HAVE HIGHER POVERTY RATES THAN WE SEE IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY BUT ALSO GUN VIOLENCE LEVELS ARE BETWEEN ONE AND A HALF AND TWO AND A HALF TIMES HIGHER IN THESE SHOTSPOTTER COVERAGE AREAS COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE CITY. WE ALSO AS I SAID, FOCUSED IN ON THIS QUESTION OF ENFORCEMENT AND WHAT HAPPENS IN THESE AREAS WHEN A GUNFIRE WHEN A GUNSHOT GOES OFF. WE FOUND THAT ACTUALLY BOTH SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS AND 911 CALLS WERE ASSOCIATED WITH HIGHER LIKELIHOOD OF ARREST AND STOPS ON SCENE AND ALSO THAT THE EFFECT SIZES WERE PRETTY SIMILAR.  SO TO PUT IT A LITTLE BIT MORE BLUNTLY WHEN A SHOTSPOTTER ALERT GOES OFF PEOPLE ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE ARRESTED IN THE IMMEDIATE SPATIAL AND KIND OF TEMPORAL PARAMETERS OF THE SHOT. SO WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET AND 15 MINUTES THERE'S AN INCREASED LIKELIHOOD OF AN ARREST OR A STOP HAPPENING. HOWEVER, WHEN PEOPLE CALL 911 TO REPORT SOUNDS OF GUNFIRE WE SAW THE SAME THING.  SO ESSENTIALLY WHEN PEOPLE CALL THE POLICE TO REPORT GUNFIRE WITHIN 15 MINUTES AND A THOUSAND FEET OF THEIR CALL LOCATION, THE LIKELIHOOD OF SOMEONE BEING ARRESTED OR STOP ALSO INCREASED AS WE ALSO DID A NUMBER OF ANALYZES BREAKING THAT DOWN BY RACE AND ARREST TYPE AND TO MAKE AN INCREDIBLY LONG STORY SHORT WE RAN ABOUT 100 MODELS AND THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THAT FINDING TENDS TO HOLD ACROSS RACE AS WELL.  SO ESSENTIALLY PEOPLE ARE SEEN TO BE EQUALLY IMPACTED IN TERMS OF ENFORCEMENT LIKELIHOOD WHETHER THE ENFORCEMENT COMES FROM A SHOTSPOTTER ALERT OR A CALL TO THE 911 SYSTEM. SO THAT'S KIND OF PROCESSES ACTUALLY I HAVE ONE MORE PROCESS I'M SORRY WE HEARD A LOT OF TALK TODAY ABOUT THE LIKELIHOOD OF INCREASING COLLECTION OF BALLISTIC EVIDENCE AND WE FOUND THAT IN BOTH KANSAS CITY AND CHICAGO THE SHOTSPOTTER TARGET AREA WAS ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASED LIKELIHOOD OF POLICE OFFICERS FINDING BALLISTIC EVIDENCE. SO ESSENTIALLY SHELL CASINGS SPENT PROJECTILES, THINGS THAT COULD BE USED FOR INVESTIGATIVE PURPOSES AND ALSO POLICE WERE MORE LIKELY TO RECOVER FIREARMS IN SHOTSPOTTER AREAS AS COMPARED TO THE COMPARISON AREAS THAT WE DID IN THE CITY. SO THAT'S THE PROCESS, RIGHT? SO WHAT'S THE OUTCOME? AND I COULD GET TO THE OUTCOME PRETTY PRETTY QUICKLY BECAUSE WE DIDN'T FIND MUCH IN TERMS OF CRIME PREVENTION OR INVESTIGATIVE OUTCOMES. WE FOUND THAT IN BOTH KANSAS CITY AND CHICAGO PART ONE GUN VIOLENCE DID NOT CHANGE FOLLOWING THE INTRODUCTION OF SHOTSPOTTER SO THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE SHOT EITHER FATALLY OR FATALLY THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE VICTIMIZED BY A GUN CRIME THAT DID NOT RESULT THAT DID NOT INVOLVE AN ACTUAL SHOOTING. SO FOR EXAMPLE A GUN ROBBERY OR AN ASSAULT WHERE THE FIREARM WAS NOT FIRED, NONE OF THAT CHANGED IN THE SHOTSPOTTER AREAS IN EITHER CITY. WE DID SEE IN KANSAS CITY A REDUCTION OF 22% OF CITIZEN CALLS FOR OF CITIZEN CALLS REPORTING THE SOUNDS OF GUNFIRE. BUT AGAIN I WANT TO REITERATE THAT THOSE TYPES OF INCIDENTS DON'T INVOLVE ANY ACTUAL VICTIMS OF GUNFIRE AND SO CRIMES THAT INVOLVE GUNFIRE, VICTIMIZATION NO CHANGE IN EITHER CITY.  WE ALSO FOUND THAT CRIMES WERE NO MORE LIKELY TO BE CLEARED VIA INVESTIGATION. RIGHT. SO RETROACTIVELY VIA DETECTIVES INVESTIGATING AN INCIDENT, INCIDENTS OCCURRING IN THE SHOTSPOTTER AREA WERE NO MORE LIKELY TO BE SOLVED COMPARED TO INCIDENTS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY.  SO THAT'S WHAT I HAVE. I'VE ALREADY SPOKEN FOR A COUPLE OF MINUTES LONGER THAT I WANTED TO THIS IS THE RESEARCH PROJECT THAT'S GOTTEN THE MOST PUBLIC ATTENTION FOR ME . I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LIVING FOR ABOUT 15 YEARS NOW SO I'M ALWAYS ASKED WHAT MY RECOMMENDATIONS ARE AND I ALWAYS SAY THE SAME THING, RIGHT? SO WHEN I SPOKE TO THE OFFICIALS IN KANSAS CITY AND CHICAGO AND IS INCLUDED IN KANSAS CITY, A NUMBER OF PUBLIC HEARINGS LIKE THIS MY RECOMMENDATION WAS THAT I'M NOT THE ONE THAT DECIDED TO BUY SHOTSPOTTER IN KANSAS CITY RIGHT.  INDIVIDUALS THAT DECIDED TO MAKE THAT PUBLIC INVESTMENT DID SO EXPECTING TO RECEIVE SPECIFIC BENEFITS AND IT'S UP TO THE LEADERSHIP IN THEIR COMMUNITIES TO DISCUSS WHETHER OR NOT THE RESEARCH WE FOUND SUGGESTS THAT THEY'RE GETTING SUFFICIENT RETURN ON INVESTMENT FOR CITIES THAT I HAVEN'T STUDIED AND BOSTON OBVIOUSLY FALLS INTO THIS CATEGORY.  MY RECOMMENDATION IS I THINK OUR FINDINGS REFLECT THE GENERAL RESEARCH IN THIS AREA SO YOU SHOULD BE INFORMED BY IT. BUT I THINK THE MORE PRUDENT THING TO DO IS TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE INVESTING INTERNAL RESOURCES TO DO THE TYPE OF SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH ON SHOTSPOTTER IN YOUR CITY TO HAVE AN OBJECTIVE VIEW OF WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE RECEIVING THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT THAT YOU SUGGESTED.  THE FIRST PANEL SEEMS TO SUGGEST THAT YOU ALL ARE WELL ON YOUR WAY WITH THAT, RIGHT WITH SOME ACTUAL STATISTICS STARTING THE PROCESS OF LOOKING AT WHAT YOU'RE GETTING. SO I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF COMMEND EVERYONE FOR THAT. SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE.  THANK YOU SO MUCH. DR. PEASE. I'D LIKE TO ASK DR. LAWRENCE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND SHARE YOUR OPENING REMARKS NOW.  VERY THANK YOU SO MUCH.  I HOPE YOU CAN ALL HEAR ME . GOOD AFTERNOON AND THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME TODAY. I'M DR. DAN LAWRENCE. I'M A SENIOR RESEARCH SCIENTIST IN THE CENTER FOR JUSTICE RESEARCH AND INNOVATION AT THE DNA CORPORATION.  I JUST WANT TO NOTE THAT THE VIEWS EXPRESSED TODAY ARE MY OWN AND SHOULD NOT BE ATTRIBUTED TO CNN CORPORATION, ITS TRUSTEES OR ITS FUNDERS.  IF YOU'RE UNFAMILIAR, CNN IS A NONPARTISAN NONPROFIT RESEARCH ORGANIZATION LOCATED IN THE WASHINGTON, D.C. AREA AND HAS FOCUSES ON RESEARCH, TRAINING AND TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE WITH CRIMINAL JUSTICE AGENCIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.  SO I RECOGNIZE THAT MY TIME IS SHORT FOR THE STATEMENT SO I'M GOING TO HIT SOME OF THE HIGH LEVEL FINDINGS FROM MY RESEARCH ON GUNSHOT DETECTION TECHNOLOGY . BUT PLEASE NOTE THAT I DID PROVIDE A WRITTEN DOCUMENT THAT GOES INTO MORE DETAIL AND PROVIDES A LIST OF PUBLISHED STUDIES AND REPORTS FROM THIS WORK AND THIS WORK IS SPECIFIC TO A STUDY THAT WAS SUPPORTED BY THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF JUSTICE FROM 2016 TO 2019 WHERE WE EVALUATED THE SHOTSPOTTER GUNSHOT DETECTION TECHNOLOGY IN THREE CITIES DENVER, COLORADO, MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN AND RICHMOND, CALIFORNIA.  SO TO BEGIN I'LL SPEAK TO THE IMPACT THAT THAT TECHNOLOGY HAS HAD ON THE AMOUNT OF SHOOTINGS THAT DEPARTMENTS BECOME AWARE OF AFTER IMPLEMENTING GDP. SO GDP IS SHORT FOR CONTRAST DETECTION TECHNOLOGY FOR EACH CITY ACROSS ALL THREE CITIES. WE FOUND THAT THE NUMBER OF SHOOTINGS REPORTED TO THE AGENCIES EITHER FROM A GDP ALERT OR A911 CALL FOR SERVICE ROUGHLY DOUBLED IN AREAS COVERED BY THE TECHNOLOGY FOLLOWING ITS FIRST YEAR IMPLEMENTATION AND AS A RESULT OF THIS INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF THIS INCREASE IN THE AMOUNT OF SHOOTING NOTIFICATION THERE WAS ALSO A CORRESPONDING INCREASE IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF OFFICER TIME SPENT TO RESPOND TO THOSE CALLS RANGING FROM ROUGHLY 2 TO 3 TIMES MORE OFFICER HOURS IN THE EXAMINED AREAS.  SO THIS INCREASE IN STAFF WORKLOAD PRESENTS A REALLY SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGE FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES THAT ARE CONSIDERING IMPLEMENTING DUTY AS OFFICERS SPEND MORE TIME RESPONDING TO AN INCREASED NUMBER OF SHOOTING RELATED NOTIFICATIONS, THEY BECOME LESS AVAILABLE TO ATTEND TO OTHER CALLS SUCH AS THOSE DIRECTLY FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO ARE EXPECTING PROMPT RESPONSES WITHOUT ADDITIONAL FUNDING TO HIRE MORE OFFICERS AND IMPROVE RESPONSE TIMES, THE OFFICERS WILL FACE THE DIFFICULT TASK OF MANAGING COMPETING PRIORITIES SO THEY'LL BE EXPECTED TO RESPOND TO ALERTS AND CONDUCT THOROUGH INVESTIGATIONS BUT ALSO BE EXPECTED TO RESPOND TO OTHER HIGH PRIORITY CALLS.  SO THIS ADDED PRESSURE COULD POTENTIALLY LEAD TO SIGNIFICANT BURNOUT OR JOB SATISFACTION OVER TIME. THEREFORE THE COST OF IT EXTENDS BEYOND THE TECHNOLOGY ITSELF. SO THESE MUST EITHER PLAN TO INCREASE AGENCY BUDGETS TO SUPPORT OFFICERS MANAGING THE INCREASED WORKLOAD OR LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES MUST BETTER ESTABLISH THE GOALS AND THE POLICIES FOR THE TECHNOLOGY. SWITCHING GEARS A LITTLE BIT IN REGARDS TO RESPONSE TIMES, THE STUDY CONSISTENTLY FOUND THAT OFFICERS RESPOND TO ALERTS FASTER THAN THEY DO TO 911 CALLS. HOWEVER, THE TIME SAVINGS HERE MAINLY COMES FROM THE AUTOMATION TO ASSIGN OFFICERS RATHER THAN THE ACTUAL TIME BY THE OFFICER TO ARRIVE AT THE SCENE AFTER BEING ASSIGNED TO THE EVENT. SO THE TIME SAVINGS IS LIKELY BECAUSE OFFICERS ASSIGNMENTS FROM ALERT DO NOT HAVE TO RELY ON A COMMUNITY MEMBER WHO IS POSSIBLY DISTRESSED AND MUST VERBALLY PROVIDE INFORMATION TO A DISPATCHER WHO THEN MUST RESPOND BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ENTERING THAT INFORMATION TO THE DEPARTMENT'S COMPUTER AIDED DISPATCH SYSTEM FOR THE OFFICERS TO READ AND RESPOND TO AND I WILL QUICKLY TOUCH UPON THE IMPACT THAT TECHNOLOGY HAS ON CRIME LEVELS BUT IS VERY SIMILAR TO DR. PETERS.  THE STUDY FOUND SOME EVIDENCE IN RICHMOND SUGGESTING A REDUCTION IN VIOLENT CRIME AND FIREARM RELATED CRIMES BUT I WOULD NOTE THAT THIS WAS FROM A PRE POST DESIGN AND IT'S NOT REALLY CLEAR THAT THE REDUCTION WAS A DIRECT RESULT OF THE GDP ITSELF AND IN THERE WERE CRIME VICTIMS TO CRIME REDUCTIONS THAT WERE NOT OBSERVED IN THE COVERAGE AREAS IN MILWAUKEE AND IN DENVER AND HERE THE STUDY TEAM WAS ABLE TO USE MORE RIGOROUS ANALYSIS THAT INCLUDED COMPARISON UNITS SO OVERALL GENERALLY MIXED FINDINGS ON THE IMPACT OF CRIME BUT MORE NOVEL THAN ANYTHING AND THE LAST THING I WANT TO MENTION WHICH I FEEL IS THE MOST CRITICAL IS HOW POLICE AGENCIES IMPLEMENT THIS TECHNOLOGY USE OF TECHNOLOGY SO VALUABLE INSIGHTS THROUGH EXTENSIVE DISCUSSIONS WITH STAKEHOLDERS AS PART OF THIS PROJECT WERE GAINED REGARDING THE PRESENCE OF WHAT I REFER TO AS A TIERED APPROACH. AND I SHOULD ALSO NOTE THAT EVERYTHING I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE TODAY IS JUST RECENTLY RELEASED IN A STUDY THAT ACTUALLY CAME OUT YESTERDAY BUT THIS IS PUBLISHED ONLINE SO THERE'S MORE DETAIL IN THIS STUDY ABOUT THESE DIFFERENT IMPACTS AND THIS TIERED APPROACH ITEM EXPLAINED NOW.  SO THE WAY I DESCRIBE THE PROGRAM IMPLEMENTATION THERE'S THE TIER ONE PROGRAMS AND THESE ARE THE MOST BASIC PROGRAMS WHERE OFFICERS ARE MERELY RESPONDING TO THE SCENE AND PERFORM SOMEWHAT SUPERFICIAL INSPECTIONS FOR GUNSHOT VICTIMS, POTENTIAL SUSPECTS AND INDIVIDUALS FLEEING THE AREAS. AND I WOULD NOTE THAT THIS IS LIKELY WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THESE CITIES WITH VERY HIGH PRIORITY CALLS CONSTANTLY HAPPENING WHERE THEY ARRIVE TO THE SCENE THEY DON'T SEE AN OBJECT AND THEY DON'T SEE A PERSON WITH A GUN AND THEY HAVE TO DISPOSE OF THE CASE QUICKLY TO GET TO THE NEXT HIGH PRIORITY CALL WHICH IS LIKELY LEADING TO THAT RESULT THAT WE'RE SEEING IN OTHER CITIES WITH THE HIGH NON EXCUSE ME WITH THE HIGH DISPOSITIONS OF UNFOUNDED CASES. SO TIER ONE IS THAT MOST BASIC APPROACH TIER TWO PROGRAMS THEY EXPAND ON THAT TIER ONE APPROACH BY INCLUDING A THOROUGH SITE ON SITE CANVASS AFTER SECURING THE SCENE.  SO THIS INVOLVES TWO OFFICERS ACTUALLY GETTING OUT OF THEIR CARS SEARCHING FOR SHELL CASINGS, FIREARMS, ALL THE DAMAGE AS WELL AS ENGAGING WITH RESIDENTS AND DOING POTENTIAL INTERVIEWS AND TALKING TO PEOPLE. TIER THREE PROGRAMS USE A MORE COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH THAT INCORPORATES ADVANCED TECHNOLOGICAL RESOURCES ALONGSIDE THOSE TIER TWO ACTIVITIES SUCH AS COLLECTING OR IDENTIFYING EVIDENCE USING NYMAN E TRACE OUR PUBLIC SURVEILLANCE SYSTEM CELL TOWERS AND MANY OTHER THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO THE DEPARTMENT AND CRITICAL TO ALL THREE OF THESE TIERS. THESE LEVELS IS ENSURING THAT THE PROGRAM IS WELL MANAGED BY A FULL TIME SUPERVISOR THAT HOLDS OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIVITIES IN THE POLICIES RELATED ACTIVITY AND ALSO REACHING OUT TO COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO FOSTER TRANSPARENT COMMUNICATION ABOUT WHAT GDC ACTUALLY IS AND DOES ITS OPERATION. THE COVERAGE AREA AND THE PRIVACY IMPLICATIONS IMPLICATIONS OF THE TECHNOLOGY . SO TO QUICKLY SUMMARIZE, THIS STUDY FOUND THAT JANNETTY ENHANCES THOSE PROCEDURAL ASPECTS OF SHOOTING INVESTIGATIONS BUT THE TECHNOLOGY ALSO INCREASES OFFICERS WORKLOAD AND HAS MINIMAL IF ANY IMPACT ON VIOLENT CRIME RATES OR SHOOTING RELATED ARRESTS AND INCIDENTS AND THEY STUDY THESE THESE RESULTS ALIGN WITH THE WORK FOR MANY OTHER SCHOLARS ON THIS SUBJECT WHICH TYPICALLY SHOW THAT TO IMPROVES RESPONSE EVIDENCE COLLECTION AND INVESTIGATION BUT DOES NOT LEAD TO LASTING CRIME REDUCTIONS. AND I WOULD ARGUE IN MY MOST RECENT PAPER THAT A LOT OF THIS IS DUE TO THE VARYING ASPECTS OF PROGRAM IMPLEMENTATION WHERE OFFICERS RESPOND TO GDP ALERTS DIFFERENTLY DUE TO AGENCY POLICY AND PRACTICE. WELL THANK YOU FOR LISTENING AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.  THANK YOU DR. LAWRENCE.  WITH THAT I TO MOVE TO OUR NEXT TWO EXPERTS ON CIVIL LIBERTIES, I WANT TO RECOGNIZE AS A CHAIR THAT THESE PANELISTS ALSO TAKE A DATA DRIVEN APPROACH TO THEIR WORK AND THAT THEY ARE VERY IMPORTANTLY HERE TO HELP US AS TO THE CIVIL LIBERTIES CONCERNS RELATED TO THIS TECHNOLOGY AND HELP US WEIGH THOSE CONCERNS AGAINST THE POTENTIAL BENEFITS OF THE TECHNOLOGY THAT ARE IN TENSION IS A CRITICAL PART OF THE CITY OF BOSTON.  ITS LAWS AS CODIFIED IN THE SURVEILLANCE OVERSIGHT ORDINANCE AND BOTH OF THESE PANELISTS HAVE BEEN INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN DEVELOP AND PASSAGE AND IMPLEMENTATION OF THAT ORDINANCE.  I'M VERY GRATEFUL TO HAVE THEM BOTH HERE TODAY WITH US WITH THAT I'D LIKE TO ASK KATE CRAWFORD TO PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND SHOW YOUR OPENING REMARKS.  THANK YOU SO MUCH. CHAIR GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYBODY . MY NAME IS KATE CRAWFORD. I RUN SOMETHING CALLED THE TECHNOLOGY FOR LIBERTY PROGRAM AT THE ACLU OF MASSACHUSETTS. AND LIKE YOU SAID, CHAIR, WE WERE INTIMATELY INVOLVED WITH A PRIOR COUNCILOR . SO SOME FOLKS WHO ARE STILL HERE FROM THAT TIME IN PASSING THE SURVEILLANCE OVERSIGHT ORDINANCE. SO IT'S REALLY A PLEASURE TO BE HERE TODAY TO EXPERIENCE SOME OF THE FRUIT OF THAT IN IMPLEMENTATION.  SO YOU KNOW, FIRST I JUST WANT TO THANK BOTH OF YOU FOR CALLING THIS HEARING AND TO THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE STILL HERE ON THE COUNCIL WHO ARE LISTENING AND ENGAGING ON THIS SUBJECT, WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT ENSURING TRANSPARENCY AND OVERSIGHT OF POLICE SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES AND PRACTICES IS REALLY A KEY PART OF YOUR JOB AS CITY COUNCILORS . AND SO I APPRECIATE AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENCE HERE AND YOUR PARTICIPATION TODAY. SECOND, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT GUN VIOLENCE IS UNACCEPTABLE ANYWHERE AND WE APPLAUD THE CITY OF BOSTON'S COMMITMENT SPECIFICALLY TO PREVENTING GUN VIOLENCE BY STRENGTHENING COMMUNITY RELATIONSHIPS AND INVESTING IN SOCIAL SERVICES LOOKING TO ADDRESS THE ROOT CAUSES OF GUN VIOLENCE,  COMMUNITIES THAT ARE GRAPPLING WITH THE DEVASTATING IMPACTS OF OH MY GOD MY FINGERS FELL ASLEEP I'M SORRY COMMUNITIES THAT ARE GRAPPLING WITH THE DEVASTATING IMPACTS OF GUN VIOLENCE DESERVE THESE EVIDENCE BASED INTERVENTIONS.  SO AGAIN, THANK YOU ALL FOR THE WORK THAT YOU DO TO SUPPORT THOSE ROOT CAUSE INTERVENTIONS YOU ALL SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED PRETTY LENGTHY MY APOLOGIES TESTIMONY FROM THE ACLU, OUR WRITTEN TESTIMONY. SO I'M NOT GOING TO REPEAT ALL OF THAT HERE BUT I'LL JUST KIND OF BREAK MY COMMENTS INTO TWO SEPARATE CATEGORIES ONE COMMENTS DEALING WITH SHOTSPOTTER TECHNOLOGY AND THEN TWO COMMENTS LOOKING AT HOW THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT USES SHOTSPOTTER THEIR DATA IN THE COURSE OF ITS BUSINESS. SO TO THE FIRST POINT ON ACCURACY AND RELIABILITY,  NUMEROUS STUDIES FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY INDICATE SHOTSPOTTER CANNOT RELIABLY AND CONSISTENTLY DISTINGUISH BETWEEN GUNSHOTS AND OTHER LOUD SOUNDS THAT ARE COMMON IN URBAN AREAS.  I'M HAPPY TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT NECESSARILY EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE BUT THIS TREND IDENTIFIED BY STUDIES IN BOSTON, NEW YORK, CHICAGO AND SELF-REPORTED DATA OF POLICE DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY SIMPLY CANNOT BE IGNORED. SO WHAT DOES CHICAGO FIND?  AS YOU KNOW, CHICAGO'S OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL FOUND THAT OVER 90% OF ALERTS COULD NOT BE CONFIRMED AS GUNFIRE IN NEW YORK, THE COMPTROLLER FOUND OVER 85% COULD NOT BE CONFIRMED AS GUNFIRE AND AS YOU KNOW, BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT RECORDS FROM 2020 TO 2022 THAT WERE REVIEWED BY MY OFFICE FOUND THAT CLOSE TO 70% OF THOSE ALERTS IN BOSTON COULD NOT BE CONFIRMED AS GUNFIRE EITHER. IN HOUSTON, THE NUMBER WAS OVER 80%. I COULD GO ON AND ON AND ON THESE THESE STATISTICS ARE PART OF THE REASON WHY MULTIPLE POLICE DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAVE ELECTED ON THEIR OWN NOT FACING COMMUNITY PRESSURE OR PRESSURE FROM AN ELECTED OFFICIALS. BUT YOU KNOW, IF YOU TAKE FOR EXAMPLE, THE POLICE CHIEF IN FALL RIVER WHO SAID THIS IS JUST ISN'T WORKING, IT'S NOT WORKING.  IT'S NOT WORTH THE MONEY AND GOT RID OF THE TECHNOLOGY SO YOU KNOW, SHOTSPOTTER MAY ELECT TO BLAME POLICE OFFICERS FOR THESE UNFLATTERING STATISTICS BUT THE TREND IS PRETTY CLEAR NATIONWIDE AND THE COMMON DENOMINATOR IS SHOTSPOTTER. SO LET'S TALK ABOUT SHOTSPOTTER AND ITS TECHNOLOGY A LITTLE BIT TO MY KNOWLEDGE SHOTSPOTTER HAS NEVER ALLOWED TRULY INDEPENDENT REVIEWERS TO TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THEIR SYSTEM.  THEIR SYSTEM INVOLVES MICROPHONES POSITIONED OUTDOORS EXPOSED TO THE ELEMENTS BLACKS BLACK BOX ALGORITHMS AND TEAMS OF HUMAN REVIEWERS WHO EVALUATE EACH ALERT AND MAKE THEIR OWN DETERMINATION ABOUT WHETHER THE LOUD NOISE WAS A GUNSHOT OR NOT . AS SHOTSPOTTER PROMISES CUSTOMERS FAST ACTION THESE HUMAN REVIEWERS REALLY DON'T HAVE VERY MUCH TIME TO MAKE THIS DETERMINATION AND THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THING THAT I WANT YOU ALL TO REMEMBER. SO WHO ARE THESE HUMAN REVIEWERS?  JUST WHILE I WAS SITTING BACK THERE I PULLED UP A JOB ADVERTISEMENT FOR A SYSTEM ALERT MONITOR AT SOUND THINKING SHOTS.  BUT SHOTSPOTTER IS PARENT COMPANY SO ACCORDING TO THAT JOB POSTING WHICH IS CURRENTLY LIVE ON THEIR WEBSITE, THIS POSITION PAYS ABOUT $13 AN HOUR. THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR THIS POSITION DO NOT INCLUDE ANY SPECIALIZED TRAINING A HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA OR GED SUFFICES IN TERMS OF EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENT AND THIS IS A DIRECT QUOTE PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE IN CUSTOMER SERVICE AND CALL CENTERS IS HIGHLY DESIRED.  SO AS I DESCRIBED IN MY WRITTEN TESTIMONY, SHOTSPOTTER HAS ACKNOWLEDGED IN THE PAST THAT UP TO 10% OF ALL SHOTSPOTTER NOTIFICATIONS ARE MANUALLY CHANGED BY THESE HUMAN REVIEWERS. THAT DATA WAS FROM 2021 ACCORDING TO THE ASSOCIATED PRESS. THEY ASKED SHOTSPOTTER FOR MORE UP TO DATE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW FREQUENTLY HUMAN REVIEWERS CHANGE THE ALGORITHM'S INITIAL CLASSIFICATION.  ACCORDING TO THE ASSOCIATED PRESS, SHOTSPOTTER DECLINED TO PROVIDE THAT UP TO DATE INFORMATION.  SO THAT'S SHOTSPOTTER TECHNOLOGY NOW LET'S TURN TO HOW SHOTSPOTTER IS ACTUALLY USED BY POLICE DEPARTMENTS.  I'M REALLY GLAD THAT MR CHEATHAM RAISED THE REASON APPELLATE DECISION IN MASSACHUSETTS OF COMMONWEALTH VERSUS FORD. I POPPED OUT DURING THE RESEARCH TO CALL A FRIEND OF MINE WHO WORKS FOR THE PUBLIC DEFENDER'S OFFICE TO ASK HIM ABOUT THAT CASE AND WHAT I HEARD WAS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE WAY THAT MR CHEATHAM DESCRIBED IT.  SO WHAT I HEARD IS THAT THE APPEALS COURT JUDGE RULED AGAINST MR FORD'S MOTION ON SHOTSPOTTER A MOTION TO SUPPRESS THAT EVIDENCE NOT BECAUSE THE JUDGE CAREFULLY EVALUATED SHOTSPOTTER TECHNOLOGY OR HEARD FROM EXPERTS WHO WERE ABLE TO CONDUCT THEIR OWN INDEPENDENT REVIEW OF SHOTSPOTTER AGAIN SOMETHING THAT TO MY KNOWLEDGE HAS LITERALLY NEVER HAPPENED. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE COURT DECIDED THAT IT WAS LEGITIMATE EVIDENCE THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.  INSTEAD THE COURT REJECTED MR FORD'S MOTION BECAUSE HIS ATTORNEY AT THE LOWER LOWER COURT LEVEL DID NOT CALL FOR AN EVIDENTIARY HEARING ON THE SHOTSPOTTER EVIDENCE. SO IN OTHER WORDS, THIS WAS A DECISION AT THE APPELLATE COURT THAT RESTED ON ESSENTIALLY A PROCEDURAL ISSUE, NOT ON THE SUBSTANTIVE QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE RELIABILITY OF SHOTSPOTTER EVIDENCE. SO JUST JUST TO BE CLEAR, THAT'S THE CASE THAT MR CHEATHAM CITED. I ALSO LEARNED FROM MY FRIEND THE PUBLIC DEFENDER THAT MR FORD WAS FOUND NOT GUILTY IN THAT CASE. SO TAKE THAT FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.  I ALSO LEARNED DURING THIS PHONE CONVERSATION THAT JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO A COURT AT THE BMC DISTRICT IN ROXBURY DID GRANT A DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO SUPPRESS SHOTSPOTTER EVIDENCE. NOW THAT WAS A DECISION THAT WAS ISSUED FROM THE BENCH. THE WRITTEN RULING ON THAT MOTION HAS NOT MADE PUBLIC YET SO WE DON'T KNOW WHY THE JUDGE IN THAT CASE AGREED WITH THE DEFENSE AND DISMISSED THE SHOTSPOTTER EVIDENCE BUT THAT JUST HAPPENED WITHIN THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS AND I DO INTEND TO FOLLOW UP WITH COUNSELORS ABOUT THAT ABOUT THAT SPECIFIC CASE BECAUSE IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUE. PEOPLE'S LIBERTY IS AT STAKE HERE. PEOPLE ARE BEING SENT TO PRISON IN PART ON THE EVIDENCE THAT IS DERIVED FROM SHOTSPOTTER TECHNOLOGY.  SO IT IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL THAT WE GET THIS RIGHT IN THE CITY OF BOSTON AND ENSURE THAT THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT IS USING THIS TECHNOLOGY RESPONSIBLY. SO I'LL WRAP UP BY SAYING WE ALL HAVE IMPORTANT JOBS TO DO HERE. IT'S THE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S JOB TO GET GUNS OFF THE STREET TO IDENTIFY AND APPREHEND SHOOTERS TO HELP ARREST TO PROSECUTE WINNING CASES. IT IS MY JOB TO ENSURE THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES DO NOT VIOLATE PEOPLE'S CIVIL RIGHTS AND IT'S YOUR JOB AS CITY COUNCILORS TO WEIGH THESE VARIOUS CONCERNS AND TO MAKE PUBLIC POLICY DECISIONS THAT YOU THINK WILL BEST SERVE OUR RESIDENTS. THE ACLU HAS MADE NO SECRET THAT WE BELIEVE THAT THIS TECHNOLOGY DOES NOT APPROPRIATELY SUIT THE NEEDS OF BOSTON RESIDENTS AND WE RECOMMEND THAT WE GET RID OF IT. BUT IF THE COUNCIL DECLINES TO WITHDRAW AUTHORIZATION FOR SHOTSPOTTER USE, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS YOU CAN DO TO ENSURE THE TECHNOLOGY IS NEVER USED TO VIOLATE A PERSON'S CIVIL RIGHTS. SPECIFICALLY, THESE ARE POLICY REFORMS THAT LOOK TO THE WAY THAT BPD MANAGES SHOTSPOTTER DATA, THE WAY BPD USES SHOTSPOTTER ALERT DATA TO BUILD A REASONABLE SUSPICION TO CONDUCT STOPS THE WAY BPD COMMAND USES SHOTSPOTTER DATA TO DETERMINE DEPLOYMENTS AND TACTICAL AND STRATEGIC CONSIDERATIONS ACROSS THE CITY AND THE WAY BPD ENGAGES WITH SHOTSPOTTER REGARDING EVIDENTIARY MATTERS.  I SPOKE TO SOME OF THOSE ISSUES IN MY WRITTEN TESTIMONY IN MORE DETAIL AND I WOULD WELCOME AN OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS THOSE PROPOSALS FURTHER. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU. I'D NOW LIKE TO ASK ALEX MATTHEWS TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND SHOW YOUR OPENING REMARKS. THANK YOU. I HAVE SOME SLIDES IF IT'S OKAY TO BRING THEM UP. YES.  LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE ALREADY UP HERE. THAT'S GREAT.  IT'S CHECKING THE THOUGHT. GOOD.  OKAY. CHAIR SANTANA, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE AND THE PUBLIC THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME THE CHANCE TO DISCUSS SHOTSPOTTER WITH YOU THIS MORNING. MY NAME IS ALEX MATTHEWS.  I AM THE CHAIR OF DIGITAL FOURTH.  WE ARE A VOLUNTEER GROUP OF PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE AND THE FOURTH AMENDMENT IN THE GREATER BOSTON AREA. WE'VE BEEN AROUND SINCE 2012 AND WE WOULD LIKE THE ACLU OF MASSACHUSETTS DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THE DEVELOPMENT AND NOW THE IMPLEMENTATION AND OVERSIGHT OF CITY SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCE AS WELL AS THE SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCES IN OTHER CITIES IN THE GREATER BOSTON AREA.  ONE THING I THINK THAT IS POSITIVE THAT ARISES OUT OF THIS HEARING IS THAT THERE IS A DEGREE OF CONSENSUS AMONG ALL PARTIES AS TO SOME OF THE ASPECTS OF THIS TECHNOLOGY AND WHAT IT CAN BE SAID TO DO AND WHAT IT CAN NOT BE SAID TO DO.  THERE IS RELATIVE CONSENSUS FOR EXAMPLE THAT. ALL OF US HERE PRESENT WANT TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE IN THIS CITY. NONE OF US ARE LOOKING FOR A COMPLETE FREE FOR ALL. WE MAY DISAGREE DISAGREE ON SOME OF THE METHODS BY WHICH THAT SHOULD BE ACHIEVED BUT WE HAVE AS A COMMON INTEREST THE GOOD OF THIS CITY REGARDING SHOTSPOTTER. THERE IS GOOD RESEARCH EVIDENCE SUPPORTED BY TESTIMONY FROM THE POLICE AND SUPPORTED ALSO BY OUR LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE THAT IT DOES SPEED UP POLICE RESPONSES THAT IT DOES INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF BALLISTIC EVIDENCE AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE ON THE GROUND THAT IT DOES SOMEWHAT INCREASE THE PRECISION OF POLICE RESPONSE. THE AREA OF DISAGREEMENT COMES WITH WHAT COMES NEXT WITH THE ULTIMATE EVALUATION OF THE ULTIMATE OUTCOMES WHETHER SHOTSPOTTER IN FACT CAN BE SHOWN TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE. AND IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE ACADEMIC RESEARCH HAS BEEN TELLING US, IT CANNOT BE SHOWN TO BE A TECHNOLOGY THAT REDUCES GUN VIOLENCE. IT CANNOT BE SHOWN TO SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASE TAKING THE PERPETRATORS OF GUN VIOLENCE OFF THE STREETS IN SO FAR AS THE DATA FROM BOSTON ITSELF SHOWS.  WE AGREE WITH BOSTON PD'S FIGURES THAT THERE ARE ROUGHLY 75 SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS NOT ACCOMPANIED BY A911 CALL AND THAT POLICE WERE ABLE TO RESPOND TO THOSE AND THAT THERE ARE TWO VICTIMS THAT IT IDENTIFIED THAT WOULD NOT PLAUSIBLY OTHERWISE HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED.  THOSE TWO VICTIMS SUFFERED A GRAZE TO AN ANKLE AND IN THE OTHER CASE THE FEAR INVOLVED IN BEING SHOT AT BUT NOT SHOT. SO WE AGREE ON ALL THESE THINGS. HOWEVER, NONE OF THAT MEANS THAT THERE ARE NOT SERIOUS ISSUES WITH SHOTSPOTTER AND NONE OF THIS MAKES IT NECESSARILY A WISE STRATEGY FOR THE CITY TO INVEST $300,000 IN PER YEAR WHETHER THAT'S OBTAINED THROUGH AN EXTERNAL GRANT OR NOT PROCEEDING TO THE CONTENTS OF THE PRESENTATION.  WE HAVE A SEPARATE HEARING ON THIS TECHNOLOGY AT ALL.  WELL, FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE THE KEY REASON IS THIS IN DECEMBER OF 2023 BPD RENEWED AND EXPANDED THE CITY'S SHOTSPOTTER CONTRACT. IT DID SO IN VIOLATION OF THE SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCE. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY DID IT ILLEGALLY.  THEY DID IT WITHOUT ANY PUBLIC HEARING HAVING BEEN HELD.  THEY DID IT POSSIBLY WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF ANY CITY COUNCILOR . BUT WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO CONFIRM THAT WITH EVERY CITY COUNCILOR AND THEY DID THIS. MOST SURPRISINGLY AT THE VERY TIME WHEN THE CITY COUNCIL COUNCIL HAD VOTED TO REJECT THE U.S. GRANT THAT INCLUDED FUNDING FOR SHOTSPOTTER.  I KNOW ALSO ON THIS TOPIC THAT THE ORDINANCE THAT WE SEE UNANIMOUSLY PASSED BY THE COUNCIL INCLUDES A PRIVATE RIGHT OF ACTION FOR PEOPLE TO SUE THE CITY FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE ORDINANCE WHICH THEREFORE MEANS THAT BPD IS CARELESS ACTIONS HERE HAVE EXPOSED THE CITY TO LEGAL RISK . WHY HAVE A SEPARATE HEARING? WELL HERE'S ANOTHER REASON BPD DID NOT SEE FIT TO DISCLOSE IN ANY OF THE PUBLIC FACING DOCUMENTS WHETHER SHOTSPOTTER WAS IN FACT DESTROYED IN THE REPORT ITSELF THE SURVEILLANCE IMPACT REPORT THEY DID NOT INCLUDE A MAP CHESS ANTENNA ON BEHALF OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE VOTES SEPARATELY TO BPT TO FOLLOW UP WITH FURTHER IN RESPONSE TO THAT QUESTION THEY PROVIDED HIM WITH A MAP WHERE THE SHOTSPOTTER COVERAGE AREA WAS ROUGHLY ONE INCH SQUARE AND WHICH DID NOT BREAK OUT THE NEW EXPANSION AREAS THAT THEY UNILATERALLY DECIDED TO IMPLEMENT. THEY HAVE BEEN VERY ANXIOUS ABOUT PUTTING THE LOCATIONS OF THE SHOTSPOTTER SENSORS ONLINE EVEN THOUGH THERE HAS BEEN PUBLIC REPORTING IN WIRED MAGAZINE IN FEBRUARY AND EVEN THOUGH BASED ON THAT ACLU CAME UP WITH AN EXCELLENT REPORT IN APRIL COVERING THE SHOTSPOTTER TECHNOLOGY IN BOSTON AND USING THE DATA FROM WIRED MAGAZINE TO DEPICT WHERE THE SENSORS ARE AND WE NOW HAVE A MAP AS ADVOCATES THAT IS FAR BETTER THAT THAN ANYTHING THAN THE BPD HAS DEIGNED TO SHARE WITH THE CITY COUNCIL . THIS THIS SLIDE RELATES TO THE RESEARCH EVIDENCE WHICH I'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT AND WHICH KATIE AND THE PROFESSORS PRESENT HAVE COVERED SO ABLY.  WE CONDUCTED AN EXTREMELY CLOSE REVIEW OF THE SHOTSPOTTER SURVEILLANCE REPORT AND INDEED OF NEARLY EVERY SURVEILLANCE REPORT SUBMITTED AS PART OF THIS PROCESS. WE WILL BE SPEAKING ON THE OTHERS THIS AFTERNOON BUT AS A RESULT OF THIS VERY CLOSE REVIEW I WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU I RECOMMENDATIONS AS REGARDS SHOTSPOTTER AT THIS TIME.  FIRSTLY, IT IS CRITICAL IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR THIS TECHNOLOGY FOR BPD TO CONSULT WITH AND GAIN THE APPROVAL OF THE CITY COUNCIL WHEN THEY DEPLOY A SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY AND ALSO WHEN THEY DEPLOY IT FOR PERSONAL PURPOSE OR IN A MANNER NOT PREVIOUSLY APPROVED PRIOR TO THE ACQUISITION OR USE THEY HAVE TO OBTAIN COUNCIL APPROVAL AND THAT IS VERY EXPLICITLY STATED IN THE ORDINANCE AND THAT MATCHES OUR PERCEPTION OF THE DISCUSSION OVER THIS ORDINANCE AT THE TIME THAT IT WAS PASSED THEY DID NOT COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE WHEN SIGNING THE RENEWAL AND EXPANSION OF SHOTSPOTTER THIS PAST DECEMBER THEY DID NOT COME BACK TO THE COUNCIL AND OBTAIN COUNCILOR APPROVAL. THIS IS THE FIRST HEARING ON SHOTSPOTTER THAT THE OR THAT HAS COVERED SHOTSPOTTER SINCE 2022 SO IT IS BLACK LETTER CLEAR THAT THERE WAS A VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE HERE WHICH IS A VIOLATION OF THE LAW MUNICIPAL LAW.  WE RECOMMEND THAT BPD SHOULD ALSO REASONABLY HAVE INFORMED THE COMMUNITIES AFFECTED BY THE EXPANSION. SHOTSPOTTER IS IN GENERAL NOT TERRIBLY WELL KNOWN AND IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO CONDUCT COMMUNITY INFORMATION SESSIONS IN DORCHESTER IN ROXBURY AND MATTAPAN SO THAT THE RESIDENTS KNOW THAT THEY ARE UNDER CONTINUOUS REAL TIME AUDIO MONITORING THAT WOULD BE POLITE BUT AT A MINIMUM IF THEY ARE ON THEIR OWN DECIDING TO EXPAND THE COVERAGE OF SHOTSPOTTER IS ONLY POLITE AND DECENT AND REASONABLE FOR THEM TO INFORM THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIVE IN THOSE AREAS AND IN THIS EXPANSION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE LIVING AROUND NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY IN HYDE SQUARE, EMBIID DORCHESTER AND THE EASTERN END OF HYDE PARK.  THE COMMUNITY CONSULTATION PROCESS SHOULD NOT BE RUN BY BPD BECAUSE TO BE HONEST WE'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE COMMUNITY CONSULTATION PROCESS IS RUN BY BPD AND IT IS FUNNY HOW SOMETIMES HEARING CAN BE A LITTLE BIT SELECTIVE ABOUT WHAT THE OPINIONS OF THE COMMUNITY ARE.  SECOND RECOMMENDATION AS PART OF THE ORDINANCE IT ALREADY REQUIRES THAT BPD SHOULD SHOW SPECIFICALLY WHERE THE DATA GOES, WHERE IT'S SHARING SHOTSPOTTER INFORMATION AND I DON'T MEAN THEM JUST SAYING AS THEY DO IN THE REPORT. OH THERE WERE DAYS OFFICERS THAT WE SHARED IT WITH THE ORDINANCE EXPECTS THEM TO LIST THE ACTUAL AGENCIES AND FOR VERY GOOD REASON BECAUSE THE CITY COUNCIL IN PASSING THIS ORDINANCE WANTED TO BE ABLE TO CHECK WHERE THE DATA WAS GOING TO AND WHETHER IT WAS GOING TO PEOPLE WHO HAD REASONABLE POLICIES GOVERNING THE USES OF DATA. IF YOU JUST SAY OH DA'S OFFICES SOMEWHERE THERE ARE A LOT OF DA'S OFFICES IN THIS COUNTRY YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? WITHOUT THAT INFORMATION CITY COUNCIL CANNOT KNOW WHETHER THIS DATA IS BEING SHARED RESPONSIBLY OR NOT AND WHETHER IT IS BEING TREATED APPROPRIATELY AT THE AGENCY IT IS SHARED WITH RECOMMENDATION.  I'VE MISSED NUMBER TWO RECOMMENDATION FOR SETTING UP A COMPLAINT MECHANISM THE BPD REPORT AND IN FACT NEARLY ALL OF THE SURVEILLANCE REPORTS SUBMITTED AS PART OF THE ANNUAL SURVEILLANCE REPORT FROM THE CITY SAY THAT THERE HAVE BEEN NO COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY AND THERE WAS EVEN A QUESTION IN TESTIMONY TO THE FIRST PANEL ON THIS SUBJECT AND BPD SAYS THAT THERE ARE NO COMPLAINTS AND THAT SOUNDS LIKE MAYBE PEOPLE HAVE NO COMPLAINTS. HOWEVER, THEY ALSO EXPLAIN IN THE SURVEILLANCE REPORTS THAT THEY RULE FROM CONSIDERATION ANY COMPLAINTS THAT ARE VOICED IN PUBLIC FORUM FORUMS OR MEETINGS LIKE THIS ONE AND THEY WOULD ONLY HYPOTHETICALLY CONSIDER COMPLAINTS THAT WERE FILED WITH THE BUREAU OF THE BPD AND THEN I WENT AND CHECKED WELL IS THE COMPLAINTS PROCESS FOR FILING A COMPLAINT AT A BUREAU OF BPD AND THERE IS A COMPLETE POLICE COMPLAINTS FORM IT'S AVAILABLE ONLINE AND IF YOU LOOK AT THAT COMPLAINTS FORM IT IT ALLOWS YOU TO COMPLAIN ABOUT AN INCIDENT.  IT DOESN'T ALLOW YOU TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY AT ALL.  SO HEY PRESTO YOU HAVE NO COMPLAINTS BECAUSE THERE IS NO CITY MECHANISM FOR ANY TECHNOLOGY, ANY SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY TO RECEIVE AND LOG AND RESPOND TO CITIZEN COMPLAINTS.  SO ONE OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS IS HAVE ONE HAVE A COMPLAINTS MECHANISM, HAVE IT BE PUBLIC FACING ON EVERY DEPARTMENT WEBSITE AND THEN WE'LL SEE WHAT REAL SITUATION IS AND WHETHER PEOPLE HAVE ENOUGH CONCERNS TO MAKE COMPLAINTS. RECOMMENDATION FIVE THE CONTRACT WITH SHOTSPOTTER COMMITS SOUND THINKING TO DETECTING AT LEAST 90% OF UNSUPERVISED OUTDOOR GUNFIRE INCIDENTS USING STANDARD COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE ROUNDS ABOVE 25 CALIBER EACH SERVICE LEVEL MEASUREMENT SHALL BE DETERMINED QUARTERLY THE RESULTS OF WHICH WILL BE REVIEWED DURING THE PERIODIC ACCOUNT REVIEW MEETINGS WITH THE CUSTOMER SINCE SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR WE HAVE TRYING TO OBTAIN FROM BPD THE DOCUMENTS OF THESE PERIODIC ACCOUNT REVIEW MEETINGS AND THE DOCUMENTS OF HOW MUCH SHOTSPOTTER IS ABLE TO COMPLY WITH EACH OF THE SERVICE LEVEL MEASUREMENTS AND WITH THIS 90% CRITERION AND THEY HAVE SO FAR REFUSED TO PROVIDE ANY OF THIS INFORMATION.  IT IS OUR PERSONAL OPINION THAT WHATEVER COMPLIANCE BPD IS UNDERTAKING IS NOT COMPLIANCE AS ENVISIONED IN THE CONTRACT. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY DON'T HAVE CAUSE WE'RE SHOTSPOTTER PEOPLE THEY'RE CLEARLY PRETTY FRIENDLY BUT THERE ARE NO RECORDS THAT ARE GENERATED THAT SHOW TO OTHER PEOPLE HOW WELL OR HOW POORLY SHOTSPOTTER IS PERFORMING IN THIS CITY. IF THEY ARE, THEY'RE WELCOME TO RELEASE THEM TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND THOSE WOULD PROBABLY BE QUITE INFORMATIVE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER AND THEY'RE WELCOME TO RELEASE THEM TO THE PUBLIC AS WELL AS WELL ASSUMING EXIST RECOMMENDATIONS SIX THE SHOTS FIRED DATABASE IS A VERY USEFUL RESOURCE THE PERSONS SHOT DATABASE IS A VERY USEFUL RESOURCE AND THE DATA IN THEM GO BACK A DECADE IN TERMS OF WHAT WAS PROVIDED TO US FOR THE SURVEILLANCE REPORTING PROCESS.  HOWEVER, THEY'RE NOT DATABASES OF SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS NO DATABASES OF SHOTSPOTTER THAT WERE PROVIDED AS PART OF PROCESS AS PART OF THAT ARGUMENT FOR WHAT SHOTSPOTTER IS WERE CONNECTED WITH 911 CALLS AND WHAT WERE NOT BPD WENT AND DID WHAT MUST HAVE BEEN A DEAL OF WORK TO INTEGRATE SHOTSPOTTER ALERT DATA WITH NINE WELL ONE CALL DATA AND THAT'S GREAT I'M GLAD THAT THEY DID IT BUT IF THEY DO THAT THAT SHOWS THAT THEY COULD ALSO INTEGRATE SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS WITH INCIDENTS OF SHOTS FIRED IF CITY COUNCIL DIRECTED THEM TO DO SO AND INTEGRATING THAT DATA WOULD GIVE RESEARCHERS AND ADVOCATES AND COUNCILORS A MUCH CLEARER IDEA OF WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING WITH SHOTSPOTTER IN THIS CITY.  LIKEWISE, WE APPRECIATE THE POINT OF THE POLICE THAT ARRESTS DON'T TELL YOU EVERYTHING AND CHARGES AND CONVICTIONS DON'T TELL YOU EVERYTHING BUT THEY'RE STILL NICE TO KNOW AND IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS IN THE DATA HELD BY BPD WERE CONNECTED TOGETHER WITH ANY ARRESTS, ANY STOPS, ARREST CHARGES OR CONVICTIONS THAT RESULTED FROM AN INCIDENT. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT SHOTSPOTTER IS THE ONLY SINGLE CAUSE OF THOSE BUT IT WILL BE USEFUL TO KNOW WHETHER THERE IS ONE OF THESE THINGS ASSOCIATED WITH IT OR NOT AS PART OF THE OVERALL CONVERSATION ABOUT EFFECTIVENESS THIS JUST GOOD DATA COLLECTING AND RIGHT NOW WE DON'T THESE THINGS SO WE DON'T KNOW. IT'S NO WONDER THAT RESEARCHERS CANNOT FIND A CLEAR LINK BETWEEN SHOTSPOTTER AND CHARGES OR CONVICTIONS IF CITIES DON'T COLLECT AND INTEGRATE THAT DATA . NUMBER EIGHT BPD SHOULD RESPOND PROMPTLY TO PUBLIC RECORDS REQUESTS THEY PROVIDED AS PART OF SURVEILLANCE REPORTING PROCESS A DATABASE OF OVER 5000 PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST RECEIVED BY BPD AND WE THANK THEM FOR DOING THAT.  IT WOULD BE MORE HELPFUL FOR COUNCILORS NOT TO HAVE TO WADE THROUGH OVER 5000 OF THEM WITH RESPECT TO EVERY TECHNOLOGY AND SO WE DID IN THE WRITTEN TESTIMONY THAT WE HAVE PROVIDED YOU WILL FIND THOSE DETAILS. WE COULD ONLY FIND ONE PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST FOR INFORMATION ON SHOTSPOTTER THAT HAD ACTUALLY BEEN ADEQUATELY RESPONDED TO IN THAT DATA SET WHICH WAS A SIMPLE REQUEST FOR THE CONTRACT IN JULY OF 2023 AS I'VE REFERRED TO OUR REQUESTS FOR COMPLIANCE DATA HAVE NOT BEEN FULFILLED. SECRECY ABOUT THIS SECRECY ABOUT THE MAP TRYING TO HIDE WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND TRY TO TRY AND SNEAK THROUGH EXPANSIONS OF THIS TECHNOLOGY.  ALL OF THIS HELPS NOBODY. IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T HELP REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE AND IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT INCREASE TRUST IN THE POLICE.  RECOMMENDATION NINE REQUIRES A LITTLE BIT OF EXPLANATION.  THERE IS A FUNDAMENTAL TENSION BETWEEN HOW SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES BEEN APPROVED IN THIS CITY SINCE 911 AND THE SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCE THE POST 911 STRUCTURE THAT WAS SET UP FOR SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE INCLUDED IN THE U.S. GRANT GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS THERE IS AN ENTITY CALLED THE METRO BOSTON HOMELAND SECURITY REGION THAT ENTITY HAS A COMMITTEE CALLED PARK.  JAY PARK CONSISTS OF PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICIALS, MOSTLY POLICE FROM BOSTON AND IT'S IMMEDIATELY NEIGHBORING COMMUNITIES. THE JAY PARK FOLKS GET TOGETHER IN POORLY AND SOMETIMES NOT PUBLICIZED PUBLIC MEETINGS WHERE THE PUBLIC CANNOT PARTICIPATE AND THEY DECIDE WHAT IS GOING TO BE CONTAINED IN NEXT YEAR'S U.S. GRANT.  I'VE LISTENED TO THESE DISCUSSIONS BEFORE THEY STOPPED PUTTING UP ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THESE DISCUSSIONS ON THE CITY OF BOSTON WEBSITE IN THE MIDDLE OF 2023 HAVING DECIDED THAT THEY DON'T THEN GO TO THE COUNCIL , THEY GO TO OPS AT LEAST AT THE STATE LEVEL AND IOS PUTS IN THE GRANT DHS APPROVES IT AND THEN DHS GOES BACK TO THE MAYOR AND THE MAYOR THEN COMES TO THE CITY COUNCIL WITH A PROPOSAL TO APPROVE THE U.S. GRANT WHICH HONESTLY IN ITS PUBLIC FACING DOCUMENTATION IS EXTREMELY VAGUE ABOUT WHAT IT FUNDS. IT BASICALLY SAYS WELL THIS JUST FOR PUBLIC SAFETY AND TO COUNTER THE POTENTIAL OF TERRORIST ATTACKS IT DOESN'T IN THAT PUBLIC FACING DOCUMENTATION SAY THIS INCLUDES FUNDING FOR SHOTSPOTTER.  YOU MIGHT WANT TO KNOW THAT THIS INCLUDES FUNDING FOR A WHOLE SET OF CAMERAS IN THE CITY. THIS INCLUDES FUNDING FOR A CELL SITE SIMULATOR. IT DOESN'T INCLUDE THAT INFORMATION MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC DON'T KNOW SO WHERE CITY COUNCIL GETS TO WEIGH IN IN THIS POST-9-11 STRUCTURE IS AFTER ALL OF THE DECISION MAKING HAS BEEN MADE BY UNELECTED OFFICIALS MORE OR LESS IN PRIVATE. I THINK THAT WHAT BPD IS DOING HERE IN TERMS OF HAVING PASSED AN ILLEGAL RENEWAL IS, A PRODUCT OF THAT POST-9-11 STRUCTURE THAT DID NOT IMAGINE THAT PERHAPS THE PUBLIC OUGHT TO HAVE A SAY OR THAT PERHAPS ELECTED OFFICIALS OUGHT TO HAVE A SAY BEFORE EVERYTHING IS DONE AND DUSTED SO GIVEN THAT THE SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCE HAS PASSED, GIVEN THAT IT DOES PROVIDE FOR CITY COUNCIL TO HAVE AUTHORITY OVER WHAT SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES ARE DEPLOYED AND WHAT ARE NOT, THE PROCESS OF ENVISIONING WHAT IS GOING TO BE IN FUTURE U.S. GRANTS HAS TO INVOLVE CITY COUNCIL PROACTIVELY.  IT HAS TO INVOLVE THE PUBLIC PROACTIVELY AND I THINK THAT BPD WILL FIND THAT IF IT DOES THEN THERE WILL BE LESS RESENTMENT AND CONFUSION ON THE BACK END.  THE LAST THING THE LAST RECOMMENDATION THAT WE HAVE IS THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES FOR EVERY DEPARTMENT, FOR EVERY SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY, FOR THEM TO FIND TO STATE WHETHER THERE HAS BEEN DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACTS INCLUDING DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACTS ON COMMUNITIES OF COLOR IN THE CITY.  THAT'S NOT A JUDGMENT THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT NECESSARILY OPENS THE CITY UP TO LIABILITY . THERE ARE GOING TO BE DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACTS FOR A LOT OF THINGS BELMONT PUBLIC SCHOOLS IF THEY DEPLOY CAMERAS IN THEIR SCHOOLS, THERE'S GOING TO BE A DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT BECAUSE A MAJORITY OF STUDENTS IN THE BOSTON PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE MINORITY STUDENTS. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT IS BEING DONE WITH DISCRIMINATORY INTENT BUT IT DOES MEAN THAT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED AND CONFRONTED AND IF POSSIBLE MITIGATE IT. THIS IS NOT THE APPROACH THAT BPD HAS TAKEN WITH RESPECT TO THESE REPORTS.  WITH RESPECT TO THESE REPORTS THEY HAVE SAID OKAY, IF THERE IS NO FINDING BY SOME SORT OF EXTERNAL AGENCY THAT THERE HAS BEEN DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT THEN WE DON'T NEED TO ADDRESS THIS AT ALL. WE DON'T NEED TO PLAN FOR IT. WE DON'T NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT. WE DON'T NEED TO TALK TO ANYBODY ABOUT IT. IT'S JUST LIKE IT'S AS IF IT DOESN'T EXIST.  THAT IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE APPROACH FOR AN AGENCY SEEKING TO BUILD TRUST WITH THE COMMUNITY THEY SHOULD FRANKLY ACKNOWLEDGE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE ARE SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES THAT WILL HAVE DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACTS AND FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO ABOUT THEM AND THIS DOESN'T APPLY JUST TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. IT APPLIES TO ALL DEPARTMENTS AND TRANSPARENCY INVOLVE SERVING THE COMMUNITY AND MIKE MIKE FROM PLACEMENT DECISIONS BETTER PUBLIC DATA ADDRESSING COMPLAINTS ACTUALLY MONITORING THE CONTRACT COMPLIANCE AND DOING THE RENEWAL LAWFULLY ALL OF THOSE ARE PART OF A REASONABLE MITIGATION STRATEGY THAT I HOPE WE CAN UNITE AROUND. TO CONCLUDE, PLEASE REVIEW THE LEGALITY OF THIS RENEWAL FOR FULL DISCLOSURE I AM NOT A LAWYER. I AM SOMEBODY WHO WORKED ON THE ORDINANCE, KNOWS WHAT IT SAYS AND CAN UNDERSTAND AND COMPREHEND SIMPLE WRITTEN ENGLISH SENTENCES.  BUT IT LOOKS VERY MUCH LIKE THERE WAS A VIOLATION HERE.  AND IF BP CANNOT CORRECT THESE THINGS AND BE TRANSPARENT AND ACCOUNTABLE TO THE COMMUNITY AND THE CITY COUNCIL REGARDING THIS TECHNOLOGY AS S.A. OBSERVES CITY COUNCIL HAS THE POWER AND AS WE ARE SAYING SHOULD EXERCISE IS THE POWER TO DISAPPROVE IT.  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU. THANK YOU ALL.  AS WITH THE FIRST PANEL I'D LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE CO-SPONSORS TO BEGIN WITH THE FIRST ROUND OF QUESTIONS AND THEN I WILL TURN THE FLOOR OVER TO MY COLLEAGUES IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL AND I WILL GO LAST AS PROMISED, I WENT TO OFFER MY COLLEAGUES EXTENDED TIME THIS ROUND SO YOU HAVE TIME TO ASK QUESTIONS OF OUR SECOND PANELIST AS WELL AS FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS TO OUR FIRST PANELISTS IF DESIRED. I'D LIKE TO ASK MY COLLEAGUES TO LIMIT THE TIME THE TIME OF YOUR QUESTIONS AND THE RESPONSES FROM OUR PANELISTS TO 7 MINUTES PER COUNCILOR INCLUDING PANELISTS RESPONSES.  IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO DIRECT ANY QUESTIONS TO A MEMBER OF THE FIRST PANEL PLEASE JUST INDICATE THAT WHEN ASKING SO THEY CAN COME UP TO ONE OF THE PODIUMS MIKES. AND LASTLY, I'D LIKE TO JUST REMIND ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES THAT DR. LYONS IS WITH US ON ZOOM AND HAS A LOT OF EXPERTISE TO OFFER. FEEL FREE TO DIRECT RESEARCH QUESTIONS TO BOTH DR. LAWRENCE AND TO DR. PIZZO. WITH THAT I'D LIKE TO HAND THE FLOOR OVER TO THE CO-SPONSOR COUNCILOR WEBER. YOU HAVE 7 MINUTES. OKAY. THANK YOU, CHAIR.  THANK YOU TO THE PANELISTS FOR YOUR YOU KNOW AND BOTH HERE AND ON ZOOM FOR YOUR TESTIMONY I GUESS.  SO PROFESSOR IS A PC SIR LIKE THE TOWER?  OKAY, GREAT. SO YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS LIKE WE HAVE SOME WELL, I GUESS I.  YOU KNOW, FOR US IN TERMS OF THE DATA IN HOW WE CAN EVALUATE IT, I THINK YOU KNOW, AS YOU SAID LIKE ARE WE ARE WE GETTING WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET OUT OF THIS TOOL? UM, YOU KNOW, I, I HAVE HEARD.  WELL, I GUESS, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT SHOULD WE BE.  WHAT ARE THE THINGS WE SHOULD BE ASKING FROM BOTH, YOU KNOW, SHOTSPOTTER AND BOS AND BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT WOULD HELP US, YOU KNOW, MAKE AN EDUCATED DECISION.  SO IN MY TESTIMONY I KIND OF SKIPPED OVER SOME OF THE TECHNICAL DETAILS.  THAT QUESTION REQUIRES ME TO GET A TEENY TINY BIT INTO THE MODE ON THAT AND I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE. EVERYONE HERE ARE NICE PEOPLE AND THE LAST THING YOU NEED IS ARE OF RESEARCH METHODS TALK. YEAH, NO AND I GUESS I WOULD JUST FOCUS IF YOU COULD ON JUST FIGURING OUT HOW MANY HOW MANY RESPONSES YOU KNOW WE'RE WE'RE GETTING TO ACTUAL GUNFIRE AND HOW MANY RESPONSES WERE NOT YOU KNOW BUT I, I WILL YEAH SO. SO THE OTHER THINGS ARE IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF RESPONSE TIMES AND NUMBER OF ARRESTS AND ACTUALLY IF GUNFIRE GUN SHOTS ARE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, BEING REDUCED. SO BUT YOU KNOW SO MY KEY PIECE OF ADVICE BECAUSE THE RAW DATA THAT WAS PRESENTED IN THE FIRST PANEL I WOULD CONTEND IS A LOT OF THE CORRECT DATA.  YOU KNOW WHAT'S EVIDENCE FOUND ,THE NUMBER OF GUNFIRE INCIDENTS THAT OCCURRED, WHAT'S CRITICAL IN DETERMINING CAUSE AND EFFECT IS THE USE OF APPROPRIATE COMPARISON CONDITION. RIGHT. AND WHAT WE MEAN THERE AND TO USE A MEDICAL ANALOGY, IF YOU'RE TESTING A CHOLESTEROL DRUG, IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO GIVE SOMEONE A PILL AND SEE IF THEY'RE CHOLESTEROL GOES UP AND DOWN. YOU NEED TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO SOMEONE'S CHOLESTEROL LEVEL WHO DID NOT TAKE THE PILL. SO THAT'S KEY HERE IS NOT ENOUGH TO JUST ANALYZE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE SHOTSPOTTER AREA. YOU NEED TO COMPARE THAT TO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN CONTROL CONDITIONS, WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OTHER AREAS OF BOSTON THAT SHARE SIMILARITIES WITH THE SHOTSPOTTER AREA. WHAT'S HAPPENING ON 911 CAUSE THAT SHARES SIMILARITIES WITH THE SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS NOT SHOWN IT LOOKS LIKE IT LOOKS LIKE I DIDN'T ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. YEAH NO I WAS. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE IN TERMS OF THE RAW DATA THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT? I THINK INVESTIGATIVE OUTCOMES AND DISTINGUISHING BETWEEN ON SITE ARREST AND ON SITE APPREHENSION VERSUS WHAT HAPPENS FOLLOWING A RETROACTIVE INVESTIGATION BECAUSE THOSE ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS AND IT'S POSSIBLE THAT SHOTSPOTTER HAS IMPACT ON ONE OF THOSE TWO TYPES OF OFFENDER APPREHENSION STRATEGIES AND NOT THE OTHER OR VICE VERSA. SO THAT'S ALSO AND WHAT WOULD BE A RECOMMENDATION OF MINE IS FOCUSING CLEARLY ON ON SCENE ARREST AND VERSUS ARREST THAT MAY HAPPEN FOLLOWING INVESTIGATIVE WORK BY DETECTIVES. OKAY. I DON'T KNOW IF DR. LAWRENCE IS STILL WITH US. I'M STILL HERE. OKAY. I GUESS THE SCREEN'S OFF BUT DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT? YEAH, I WOULD JUST QUICKLY ADD THE DISPOSITION. IT'S CRITICAL TO GET INFORMATION CONNECTED TO THE SHOTSPOTTER CASES BUT ALSO THE CONNECTION TO OTHER TECHNOLOGIES IN THE IN THE BPT. SO ONE CRITICAL ASPECT IS YOU KNOW, ARE ARE SHELL CASINGS BEING COLLECTED, ARE GUNS BEING RECOVERED? ARE THEY BEING RUN THROUGH NIVEN ON THE NATIONAL BALLISTIC NETWORK? ARE THEY BEING RUN THROUGH EACH CASE? ARE THEY BEING CONNECTED TO CELL PHONE TOWER WARRANTS OR ARE THEY BEING CONNECTED TO PUBLIC SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS? UM, SO THOSE CRITICAL ASPECTS OF HOW THE TECHNOLOGY AND THE DEPARTMENT ARE INTEGRATED WITH EACH OTHER, I THINK WOULD FURTHER SUPPORT THE USE OF SHOTSPOTTER ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. OKAY. AND I GUESS FOR BOTH OF YOU IN TERMS OF SO I THINK I THOUGHT BOTH OF YOU SAID OR MAYBE JUST PROFESSOR PC THAT THE NUMBER OF SHOOTINGS IN THE CITIES YOU STUDY HAVE NOT GONE DOWN BUT SO HAS THE POLICE ACTIVITY INCREASED AS A RESULT OF SHOTSPOTTER IN THOSE IN THOSE CITIES? GOOD QUESTION. SO IN BOTH CITIES WE FOUND THAT CRIME DID NOT DECREASE IN THE SHOTSPOTTER AREA COMPARED TO THE COMPARISON AREA. ON THE QUESTION OF ENFORCEMENT WE WERE ONLY ABLE TO LOOK AT IN CHICAGO AND WE FOUND THAT IN CHICAGO ENFORCEMENT DID NOT INCREASE. WELL, I KNOW YOU'VE SAID TWO TERMS OF POLICE ACTIVITY IN THE SHOTSPOTTER AREA.  IT IS THAT DID NOT INCREASE FROM SHOTSPOTTER.  THINGS LIKE RESPONSES. YEAH. I'M SORRY . SO RESPONSES TO INCIDENTS DID INCREASE IN BOTH CITIES. LOOKING AT ACTIVITY IN TERMS OF ACTUAL APPREHENSIONS THAT DID NOT CHANGE.  OKAY. AND I GUESS FOR ATTORNEY CROCKFORD SORRY . OKAY. SO WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS TECHNOLOGY AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE AND IT'S SORT OF BEING APPLIED IN A LIMITED FASHION, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS AND YOU GET POLICE GOING IN, YOU KNOW, MORE I MEAN I'M ASSUMING THERE'S ACTIVITY LISTS ARE GOING IN FASTER. YOU KNOW.  YOU KNOW, I WAS CONCERNED IN YOUR WRITTEN TESTIMONY ABOUT HOW THAT THAT HOW THE DETECTION THE ALARM FROM SHOTSPOTTER IMPACTS HOW POLICE ARE GOING INTO NEIGHBORHOODS IN TERMS OF THEY MAY STOP PEOPLE TO HAVE THEY THINK THEY HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE TO STOP MORE PEOPLE. CAN YOU JUST TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT?  YEAH, I'M HAPPY TO. THANKS FOR THE QUESTION. SURE. SO AS WE'VE HEARD FROM MULTIPLE PEOPLE ON MANY DIFFERENT SIDES OF THIS ISSUE, SHOTSPOTTER DEVICES IN BOSTON LIKE PRETTY MUCH EVERY OTHER CITY ARE CONCENTRATED IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. AND SO SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS ARE ONLY GOING TO SEND POLICE OFFICERS TO THOSE COMMUNITIES OF COLOR BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY PLACE WHERE THE SHOTSPOTTER DEVICES ARE LOCATED UNLESS THERE'S SOME SORT OF TERRIBLE MISTAKE. BUT I DON'T I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT HAPPENING. SO WHEN WE SEE DATA LIKE WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN BOSTON, IN CHICAGO, IN NEW YORK ABOUT HOW OFTEN POLICE ARE ACTUALLY FINDING EVIDENCE OF GUNFIRE WHEN THEY DEPLOY IN RESPONSE TO SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS THAT RAISES A VERY SERIOUS QUESTION ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE CALLED OTHER ADVOCATES HAVE CALLED TECHNOLOGICALLY, YOU KNOW, WASHED ESSENTIALLY TECHNO WASHED JUSTIFICATIONS FOR OVERPOLICING OF COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.  ANOTHER WAY TO SAY THAT IS, YOU KNOW, IF THERE WERE A TECHNOLOGY THAT WERE SIMPLY RANDOMLY TELLING THE POLICE TO DEPLOY TO BLOCKS IN BLACK AND BROWN NEIGHBORHOODS LOOKING FOR SHOOTERS WHO DID NOT EXIST, YOU WOULD BE CONCERNED A REASONABLE PERSON WOULD BE CONCERNED THAT THAT WOULD LEAD TO UNNECESSARY POTENTIALLY UNNECESSARY POTENTIALLY UNJUSTIFIED AND POTENTIALLY AGGRESSIVE ENCOUNTERS BETWEEN MEMBERS OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC IN THOSE COMMUNITIES. SO YES, THERE IS A CONCERN THAT WAS BORNE OUT BY SOME OF THE RESEARCH THAT WAS DONE BY THE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL IN CHICAGO THAT ONE OF THE IMPACTS OF POLICE USE OF THIS TECHNOLOGY IS, YOU KNOW, OVERPOLICING.  I MEAN THAT'S NOT HOW THEY PHRASED IT IN THEIR REPORT BUT THAT'S MY READ OF IT IS THAT,  YOU KNOW, IT DROVE UP THE NUMBER OF STOP AND FRISK IN THOSE COMMUNITIES. POLICE OFFICERS IN CHICAGO TOLD THE INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE YEAH, YOU KNOW, I WHEN I'M IN A SHOTSPOTTER AREA I'M PARAPHRASING I DON'T HAVE IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME WHEN I'M IN A SHOTSPOTTER AREA, YOU KNOW? YEAH, I THINK ABOUT THAT WHEN I SEARCH PEOPLE AND THAT'S PART OF HOW I YOU KNOW, DEVELOP REASONABLE SUSPICION IS BY NOTING THAT I'M IN A SHOTSPOTTER COVERAGE AREA. SO YES, WE'RE GRAVELY CONCERNED ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT THIS TECHNOLOGY AND I SHOULD SAY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S USE OF THE TECHNOLOGY WE COULD BE HAVING IN TERMS OF INCREASING INTERACTIONS BETWEEN MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT OFFICERS WHEN THAT MAY NOT BE JUSTIFIED. AND I'LL JUST SAY THAT IN OUR REPORT WE DID CITE ONE EXAMPLE OF A CASE IN WHICH A BOSTON POLICE OFFICER RESPONDED TO A SHOTSPOTTER ALERT, DIDN'T FIND ANY EVIDENCE OF A SHOOTING OR A GUN BUT SAW SOMEONE IN A CAR WITH TINTED WINDOWS QUERIED THEIR LICENSE PLATE, FOUND THAT THE CAR WAS YOU KNOW, HAD AN EXPIRED REGISTRATION AND YOU KNOW, TOWED THE CAR AND ARRESTED THE PERSON. SO IT'S THAT KIND OF LOW LEVEL SO-CALLED QUALITY OF LIFE OR IF YOU'RE BILL BRATTON BROKEN WINDOWS STYLE POLICING THAT HAS LARGELY BEEN DISCREDITED THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT COULD BE YOU KNOW, AMPLIFIED, MAGNIFIED, EXACERBATED BY THE USE OF THIS TECHNOLOGY. YES. OKAY. THANK YOU, CHAIR.  THANKS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR . I'M GOING TO TAKE A TURN IT OVER TO COUNCILOR FLYNN FROM THE SECTOR AND THEN COUNCILOR ANDERSON WILL GO AFTER THAT.  THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. THANK YOU TO THE PANELISTS FOR BEING HERE AND I APOLOGIZE. I WAS LATE FOR SOME OF YOUR TESTIMONY AND I WILL REVIEW THE VIDEO LATER.  I GUESS MY QUESTION IS ARE YOU ASKING FOR BOSTON POLICE TO GET RID OF THIS TECHNOLOGY OR ARE YOU ASKING FOR MORE PROTOCOLS SO THAT CIVIL RIGHTS ARE PROTECTED? I JUST WANTED TO BE CLEAR ON THAT. CAN I TAKE NO. I CAN SPEAK OBVIOUSLY ONLY FOR DIGITAL FOURTH AND WHAT WE ARE ASKING WE DO THINK THAT GIVEN THIS CONTRACT HAS BEEN ILLEGALLY REVIEWED RENEWED IN OUR VIEW THAT THAT PRESENTS A SERIOUS PROBLEM FOR THE CONTINUED OPERATION LAWFULLY OF SHOTSPOTTER IN THIS CITY. WE BELIEVE THAT THAT CAN BE CURED POTENTIALLY.  WE BELIEVE THAT IT TROUBLES US TO BE SPENDING $300,000 A YEAR ON SOMETHING THAT PURPORTS TO ADDRESS GUN VIOLENCE THAT CANNOT BE SHOWN TO TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE AND CITY COUNCIL AND BPD AND THE COMMUNITY WORKING TOGETHER CAN ADDRESS THAT IN A COUPLE OF WAYS. THEY CAN DO DATA IMPROVEMENTS AND PROCESS IMPROVEMENTS THAT WILL GET AT BETTER. THE QUESTION OF WHETHER SHOTSPOTTER REDUCES GUN VIOLENCE AND IT MAY BE THAT BOSTON WILL BE THE FIRST CITY IN THE NATION TO ACTUALLY SHOW THAT THERE IS AN EFFECT REDUCING GUN VIOLENCE AND IF SO GREAT.  BUT I AM SKEPTICAL WHETHER THAT WILL HAPPEN. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IMPROVEMENTS IN SYSTEMS, YES, BUT WE WOULD TEND TO FEEL THAT THERE ARE OTHER INTERVENTIONS THAT ARE BETTER TESTED WITH EVIDENCE IN TERMS OF FUNDING COMMUNITY PROGRAMS AND PROACTIVE MEASURES TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE. THEN THIS UNAUDITED PROTOCOL FROM A CALIFORNIA COMPANY THAT OTHER CITIES SEEM TO BE RETREATING AWAY FROM.  THANK YOU.  CAN I SPEAK TO THAT AS WELL? YEAH. THANKS FOR THE QUESTION, COUNCILOR FLYNN. YES, THE ACLU IS POSITION IS THAT THE THE BENEFITS OF THIS TECHNOLOGY DO NOT ARE NOT OUTWEIGHED BY THE COSTS AND WE DO RECOMMEND THAT THE COUNCIL VOTE TO WITHDRAW AUTHORIZATION FOR CONTINUED USE OF SHOTSPOTTER. THAT SAID, I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S HIGHLY UNLIKELY AND AND WE ALSO HAVE IDEAS THAT WE WOULD LOVE TO DISCUSS WITH YOU AND ANY OTHER COUNCILOR WHO'S INTERESTED ABOUT WAYS THAT THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT CAN IMPROVE ITS INTERNAL OPERATIONS AND POLICIES AND PROCEDURES AND PRACTICES TO ENSURE THAT SHOTSPOTTER TECHNOLOGY THE DATA FLOWING FROM IT, THE POLICE USE OF THAT TECHNOLOGY AND DATA IS NEVER USED TO VIOLATE SOMEONE'S CIVIL RIGHTS OR TO JUSTIFY THE OVERPOLICING OF BLACK AND BROWN NEIGHBORHOODS UNJUSTIFIABLY.  THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THAT I REPRESENT A VERY DIVERSE COMMUNITY DISTRICT TO REPRESENT THE LARGEST NUMBER OF RESIDENTS LIVING IN PUBLIC HOUSING IN IN SEVEN YEARS ON THE COUNCIL NOT ONE PERSON HAS EVER SAID TO ME THEY WANT THE CITY OF BOSTON TO GET RID OF THIS TECHNOLOGY. THEY'VE SAID JUST THE OPPOSITE TO ME THEY WANT MORE OF IT. THEY WANT SAFE COMMUNITIES, HEALTHY COMMUNITIES, SAFE NEIGHBORHOODS AND MARY ELLEN MCCORMICK AND SOUTH BOSTON ARE CATHEDRAL IN THE SOUTH AND WEST BROADWAY DEVELOPMENT IN LYNCH HOMES.  WHEN I TALK TO THE TASK FORCE AND THE RESIDENTS THEY'RE ASKING ME FOR MORE POLICE ON THE STREET.  THEY'RE ASKING ME FOR MORE WAYS TO GET CITY TECHNOLOGY TO DEAL WITH THE ALARMING GUNS THAT WE HAVE ON THE STREETS OF BOSTON. I THINK I BELIEVE LAST YEAR WE BOSTON POLICE CONFISCATED MAYBE CLOSE TO 700 FIREARMS ON THE STREETS OF BOSTON.  SO WHAT IS MY ANSWER TO THE RESIDENTS WHEN THEY'RE ASKING ME FOR THIS TECHNOLOGY? WHAT IS MY ANSWER TO THEM?  DO I TELL THEM NO, WE DON'T WANT IT BECAUSE SOME ACADEMICS ARE ADVISING AGAINST IT OR WHAT ? WHAT DO YOU THINK THE GENTLEMAN IN THE MIDDLE YOUR ACADEMICS COMMENT TRIGGERED ME SO I APOLOGIZE FOR RAISING MY HAND. MY MY OFFICIAL POSITION THAT YOU WEREN'T HERE FOR MY TESTIMONY. SO MY OFFICIAL POSITION IS THAT I'M NOT MAKING A RECOMMENDATION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER IN MY MIND.  COULD I JUST ASK BOTH OF YOU WHAT NEIGHBORHOODS ARE YOU GUYS FROM?  I LIVE IN PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND. AND WHAT DO YOU UP TO?  I LIVE IN BELMONT, MASSACHUSETTS. AND I WOULD ASK YOU, SIR, DID YOU ASK THAT QUESTION OF THE POLICE REPRESENTATIVES WHO WERE HERE AND WHAT THEY NAME NEIGHBORHOODS THEY LIVE IN? I KNOW WHAT NEIGHBORHOODS THEY LIVE IN AND DO THEY ALL LIVE IN BOSTON? I'M ASKING THE QUESTIONS.  I LIVE IN THE DUDLEY TRIANGLE RIGHT SMACK IN THE MIDDLE. I KNOW SHOTSPOTTER. I KNOW. I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE. OKAY. I COULD DO WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO ANSWER MY QUESTION?  YOUR QUESTION PERTAINING TO WHERE I LIVE OR THE RECOMMENDATION AROUND SHOTSPOTTER THE RECOMMENDATIONS THE MY RECOMMENDATION FOR THE CITY OF BOSTON IS THE SAME FOR FOR EVERY CITY I SPEAK TO THAT I HAVE IN CONDUCTED ORIGINAL RESEARCH WITH IS TO TAKE THE STEPS NECESSARY TO DO A RESPONSIBLE DATA ANALYSIS WHICH INCLUDES CONVERSATIONS WITH STAKEHOLDERS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE RECEIVING THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT THAT THEY THEY RECOMMEND THAT THEY ANTICIPATED. MY COLLEAGUES AND I FINISH WHAT WE BELIEVE IS THE LARGEST EVALUATION OF SHOTSPOTTER IN KANSAS CITY AND CHICAGO AND WE THINK THAT THAT OFFERS CITIES LIKE CHICAGO I'M SORRY CITIES LIKE BOSTON A MODEL FOR CONDUCTING THEIR OWN ANALYSIS. SO THAT'S A MUCH LONGER ANSWER THAN YOU ANTICIPATED BUT IT'S A SHORT NO WITH THAT IMPORTANT CAVEAT. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT. AND YOU KNOW, ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT ARE SITTING AT THESE TABLE, ESPECIALLY DISTRICT COUNCILS HAVE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO KEEP OUR DISTRICTS SAFE, HEALTHY, KEEP OUR RESIDENT SAFE AND HEALTHY. EASY FOR YOU LIVING IN BELMONT TO SAY LET'S GET RID OF IT. BUT WHEN YOU COME INTO THE SOUTH AND PUBLIC HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS IN BOSTON THAT NEED POLICE PRESENCE, THEN THAT'S OUR JOB TO KEEP THEM SAFE.  BUT IT'S EASIER SAID THAN DONE AND YOU HAVE THE LUXURY TO DO IT FROM BEHIND BEHIND THE PODIUM. MR CHAIRMAN, CAN I JUST. COUNCILOR FLYNN'S QUESTION AS WELL. WELL, TIME IS UP.  DO YOU WANT TO DO ONE? AND I WOULD HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS SINCE I WAS PERSONALLY ATTACKED THAT I WOULD LIKE TO WEIGH IN ON THAT AFTER KATE SPEAKS. I'VE BEEN TOLD IT'S TIME TO MOVE ON SO IT'S MY IT'S LET'S MOVE LET'S MOVE ON TO COUNCILOR FERNANDEZ ANDERSON AND YOU HAVE 7 MINUTES. COUNCILOR THANK YOU. I THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.  I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS AND I THINK THAT THIS WHOLE PROCESS IS FLAWED THE HEARINGS, THE WORKING SESSIONS IT'S SILLY.  WE HAVE HEARD AND WE NEED TO HEAR 3 HOURS OF PRESENTATION BECAUSE WE NEED TO BE EDUCATED AND WE NEED TO LEARN MORE BEYOND READING.  THERE'S SO MUCH IMPORTANT DATA AND NO ONE CAN DO SOME SORT OF LIKE ANALYSIS HERE RIGHT IN THIS ROOM. SO EVEN IF THIS GOES INTO A WORKING SESSION, WHAT EXACTLY ARE WE DOING? SO THE FIVE MINUTE TO SEVEN MINUTE WITH RESPECT TO THE CHAIR, OF COURSE HE'S YOU'RE DOING YOUR VERY BEST AND AWESOME JOB IN MAKING SURE THAT WE ALL HAVE YOUR TIME. BUT I'M GOING TO SAY THAT ANY QUESTION THAT I ASK IS NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH TIME TO REALLY DIG INTO IT.  SO I WILL PUT MY QUESTIONS ON RECORD AND THEN I WANTED TO HEAR YOUR RESPONSE TO THE COMMENT THAT WAS JUST MADE FROM MY COLLEAGUE.  SO WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT THIS IS NEITHER THE FIRST NOR THE SECOND BUT THE THIRD TIME THAT COUNCILOR FLYNN HAS ATTEMPTED TO QUESTION WHETHER A RESIDENT WHO LIVES AS I DO IN CYCLING DISTANCE OF BOSTON IS LEGITIMATELY SOMEBODY WHO CAN WIN AS A MEMBER OF AN EXPERT PANEL ON WHAT HAPPENS IN THE METRO BOSTON REGION RELATING TO SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES I DISLIKE IT. I FIND IT DISCOURTEOUS.  I HAVE NOT ATTEMPTED TO QUESTION EITHER COUNCILOR FINN FLYNN'S ORIGINS OR ANCESTRIES OR PRACTICES.  I HAVE NOT ATTACKED HIM PERSONALLY IN ANY WAY AND GIVEN THAT THIS COUNCIL IS COMPOSED OF PEOPLE WHO ORIGINATE FROM A WIDE VARIETY OF PLACES AND ANCESTRIES, I FEEL THAT IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE ADDRESSING THE CHAIR FOR ANY COUNCILOR TO QUESTION THE CREDENTIALS OF AN EXPERT PURELY BASED ON WHERE THEY LIVE.  I REPRESENT AN ORGANIZATION THAT ORGANIZATION HAS MEMBERS AND VOLUNTEERS THROUGHOUT THE BOSTON AREA INCLUDING THE CITY OF BOSTON, THE CITY OF CAMBRIDGE, THE CITY OF SOMERVILLE AND MANY SUBURBS AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN MULTIPLE CITIES IN THEIR PROCESS AND I FEEL THAT THAT EXPERIENCE FROM MULTIPLE CITIES IS VALUABLE TO THE CITY OF BOSTON.  IF COUNCILOR FLYNN CARES TO DISAGREE ON THAT THEN WE CAN HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSIONS AFTERWARDS. BUT I THINK THESE TEAM LEGITIMATE COMMENTS SHOULD CEASE. THANK YOU.  YES, I'LL DEFINITELY ALLOW YOU TIME TO I HOPE THAT YOU CAN UNDERSTAND BACK TO RESPECT WITH RESPECT TO MY COUNCILOR COLLEAGUE HE'S IN WITHIN HIS RIGHT TO ASK BUT I WANTED YOU TO TO RESPOND BECAUSE YOU SHOULD YOU ARE WITHIN YOUR RIGHT TO RESPOND AS WELL AND IT'S PERTINENT TO UNDERSTANDING CONTEXT HERE. RIGHT. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE.  YOU STUDY THIS THING, YOU HAVE THE DATA. LIKE CAN WE JUST TALK ABOUT THE CONTEXT? SORRY . YEAH. THANK YOU COUNCILOR I YOU KNOW, TO YOUR QUESTION, COUNCILOR FLYNN, I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT ONE. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE RESIDENTS IN YOUR COMMUNITY WHO ARE DEMANDING MORE POLICE ARE DEMANDING MORE SURVEILLANCE?  THAT'S ACTUALLY A KEY REASON WHY THIS PROCESS IS SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE FOR FAR TOO LONG THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAVE HAD IN THIS IN THIS ROOM, IN THIS BUILDING IN THIS CITY, IN THIS COUNTRY FRANKLY ABOUT THE ROLE OF ADVANCED SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES IN MODERN POLICING HAS BEEN INFORMED MORE BY PEOPLE'S VIEWERSHIP OF PROGRAMS LIKE CSI AND SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT THAN THE FACTS ABOUT WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN OUR COMMUNITIES AND WHAT POLICE DEPARTMENTS ARE ACTUALLY DOING WITH SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY AND THE DATA THAT THEY PRODUCE. SO I THINK IT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION AND THE ANSWER IS PEOPLE SHOULD GET INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS.  PEOPLE SHOULD LISTEN TO WHAT THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS REPORTED ABOUT ITS OWN SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY, READ THE REPORTS, YOU KNOW, WATCH THIS MEETING AND HEAR WHAT YOU KNOW CRITICS OF THE DEPARTMENT HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THOSE SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES AND THE WAY THAT THEY'RE USED. AND FINALLY I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, THAT IT'S I HOPE THAT YOU DO WATCH THE TESTIMONY THAT THESE ACADEMICS PROVIDED TO THE BODY BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS SAID IS THAT THE RATE OF SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS THAT DO NOT RESULT IN EVIDENCE FOUND COMPOUNDS A PROBLEM THAT I HAVE HEARD YOU COUNCILOR FLYNN DISCUSSED MANY TIMES IN THIS BODY WHICH IS THAT THERE AREN'T ENOUGH POLICE OFFICERS TO RESPOND TO ALL THE CALLS OUT THERE. SO I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S IT'S A COMPLICATED ANSWER. THE ANSWER IS PEOPLE NEED TO GET INFORMED ABOUT THE ROLE THAT SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY ACTUALLY PLAYS AND THAT, YOU KNOW, COUNCILORS HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY OF PARTICIPER IN THAT MAKING SURE THAT THEIR RESIDENTS KNOW THE ACTUAL FACTS AND NOT JUST SORT OF WHAT THEY SEE ON TV. AND THEN FINALLY THAT THERE IS THAT WE COLLECTIVELY TAKE A VERY CLOSE LOOK AT THE WAYS IN WHICH TECHNOLOGIES LIKE SHOTSPOTTER MAY BE EXACERBATING THE PROBLEM THAT YOU'VE IDENTIFIED SO MANY TIMES AT THIS COUNCIL WHICH IS THAT THERE AREN'T ENOUGH POLICE OFFICERS TO RESPOND TO CALLS OR TO WALK THE BEAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH, COUNCILOR FERNANDEZ. I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT.  NO PROBLEM. AND IN THE INTEREST OF TIME I WILL JUST READ MY QUESTIONS AND ANSWER WITH THROUGH THE CHAIR OF THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT CAN SUBMIT THEM IN WRITING.  THAT WOULD BE GREAT. I HEARD EARLIER THIS MORNING DURING TESTIMONY THAT OR THE PRESENTATION PD PRESENTATION OF DETERMINES WHERE TO PLACE SHOTS SPOTTERS OR DETECTION DEVICES BASED ON CONFIRMED GUNFIRE. HOWEVER IN 2023 AND I DON'T KNOW IF ONE OF YOU WANT TO PLEASE TAKE A SEAT HERE BECAUSE I'M QUITE SURE MY COLLEAGUES WILL HAVE QUESTIONS AS WELL. THE CHAIR MENTIONED THAT WE COULD ADDRESS YOU GUYS TO COME AND ASK QUESTIONS AND SO BUT 2023 SURVEILLANCE REPORT THEN IT WAS FOUND THAT A LARGE NUMBER OF SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS DID NOT HAVE CORRESPONDING 91 CALLS. SO HOW DO THESE DATA POINTS INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER? IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU IF WE KNOW IN LARGE NUMBER OF GUNSHOTS DO NOT GET REPORTED VIA 911. HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THAT YOU KNOW OTHER THAT THERE AREN'T OTHER HOTSPOTS OUTSIDE OF DORCHESTER, ROXBURY AND I'LL KEEP GOING UNTIL HE GETS THERE AND THEN WHAT OTHER WAYS DO WE CONFIRM GUNFIRE OUTSIDE OF NO ONE CALLS? CERTAINLY. SO I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS DEFINITELY A KEY CHALLENGE FOR US. THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE WOULD LIKE TO EXPAND THE SHOTSPOTTER COVERAGE AREA. SO WE ARE DETERMINING MORE OF THOSE AND THAT THAT'S PROBABLY THE KEY THE KEY WAY I WOULD SAY.  WE ALSO GET FEEDBACK FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS THROUGH COMMUNITY MEETINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IF PEOPLE ARE HEARING, YOU KNOW, GUNSHOT TYPE SOUNDS WE ALSO LOOK AT 311 DATA PEOPLE WHO MAY BE, YOU KNOW, REPORTING THINGS THROUGH THAT SORT OF MECHANISM AS WELL. SO SEVERAL DIFFERENT MECHANISMS BUT THAT IS A KEY CHALLENGE FOR US FOR SURE. DO YOU THINK THAT THERE ARE OTHER WAYS OF PERFORMING THIS ANALYSIS WITHOUT SPENDING A WHOLE BUNCH OF MONEY ON THIS TECHNOLOGY SO THAT YOU HAVE TO LIKE GO IN AND IMPLEMENT OR INSTALL SHOTSPOTTER IN ORDER TO GET THAT DATA RESEARCH?  OR CAN WE DO AN ANALYSIS IN A DIFFERENT WAY? CAN WE STUDY IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY? I GUESS I'M NOT 100% CLEAR ON THE QUESTION BUT I THINK COULD WE GET THE ANSWER WITHOUT SPENDING THE MONEY IN THIS TECHNOLOGY AND INSTALLING IT SAY IN BEACON HILL? COULD WE COULD WE GET THIS COULD WE DO A STUDY AND ANALYZE THIS IN A DIFFERENT WAY OR HAVE WE NOT THOUGHT ABOUT IT YET?  SO I WILL SAY FROM THE ANALYST'S PERSPECTIVE IN THE BRIC WE REVIEW ALL THE DIFFERENT POLICE RECORDS AND I WILL ONE CALLS POLICE INCIDENT REPORTS.  ANY DATA SOURCE WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO DETERMINE THE LOCATION OF GUNFIRE INCIDENTS IN THE CITY. SHOTSPOTTER IS ONE OF THOSE VARIABLES THAT WE INCLUDE IN OUR ANALYSIS CURRENTLY BECAUSE I'M INTERESTED IN THE OTHER VARIABLES. IF IT'S NOT NECESSARY FOR US TO LIKE EXPEND SO MUCH MONEY AND IF WE CAN DO A STUDY, COULD WE DO THAT IN ADVANCE AS A PROACTIVE MEASURE AS OPPOSED TO SPENDING THE MONEY AND THEN LATER SAYING OH, WE DIDN'T NEED IT? I SUPPOSE WE TECHNICALLY COULD BUT WE WOULD BE MISSING THE 75 AND 2023 FOR EXAMPLE WE WOULD NOT HAVE THE 75 INCIDENTS THAT SHOTSPOTTER FOUND WITH NO OTHER OTHER SOURCE.  CAN YOU SPEAK TO YOU KNOW HOW YOU FOUND THAT 16% OF SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS CORRESPONDED TO COMMON URBAN AREAS FIREWORKS BALLOONS, VEHICLE BACKFIRING, GARBAGE TRUCKS AND CONSTRUCTION AND SO FORTH? CAN YOU SPEAK TO THIS TO VERIFY AND VERIFY WHAT HAPPENS INTERNALLY WHEN SHOTSPOTTER DETECTS SOMETHING THAT ISN'T A GUNSHOT SO THAT THE SYSTEM HAS A MECHANISM WHERE WE CAN CONTACT SHOTSPOTTER THROUGH A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT MECHANISMS TECH NOT TECHNOLOGICALLY BUT WE TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE AWARE OF THAT INFORMATION.  WE ALSO TRY TO TRACK THAT INTERNALLY SO WE'RE DETERMINING ANY TRENDS IN THAT.  SO IF WE KNOW LIKE THERE'S A PARTICULAR YOU KNOW, MICRO AREA WHERE THERE'S AN ACTIVE CONSTRUCTION PROJECT OR THERE'S A RECYCLING FACILITY OR SOMETHING ARE MORE LIKELY TO GET SOME OF THOSE SOUNDS DEFINITELY YOU KNOW THE OFFICERS AND THE DISTRICT CERTAINLY KNOW THAT AND KIND OF UNDERSTAND THOSE FACTORS. BUT WE ALSO DO TRY OUR BEST TO COMMUNICATE THOSE OFTEN. THAT'S EVERYONE FROM THAT YOU KNOW, SUPERVISOR ON THE SCENE CAN REPORT THAT UP OR YOU KNOW US AND THE BEARCAT POST FACTO WILL YOU KNOW WILL REPORT THAT TO SHOTSPOTTER SO WE CAN KIND OF TRACK THOSE AND TRY TO MAKE THOSE IMPROVEMENTS. I APPRECIATE IT. I DO HAVE A LOT MORE QUESTIONS BUT I THINK THAT'S MY TIME. I HEARD A SOUND BUT I DID WANT TO JUST CLOSE WITH SAYING I HOPE THAT MY COLLEAGUE APPRECIATES THAT I WAS TRYING TO PLAY ON YOUR QUESTIONS BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A CONTINUITY IN THESE CONVERSATIONS SUPER IMPORTANT SO THAT WAS MY INTENT THERE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR . COUNCILOR FITZGERALD, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR.  THANK YOU, CHAIR AND THANK YOU. MEMBERS HAVE COME OUT WITH YOUR TESTIMONY TODAY. I'LL JUST HAS A SIX QUESTIONS I WON'T DO QUESTION ANSWER BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME SO I'LL JUST SORT OF LAY OUT THE SIX QUESTIONS YOU GUYS CAN DECIDE WHICH ONES YOU'D LIKE TO RESPOND TO.  ONE IS A QUESTION OF MYSELF AND WHAT I HAVE TO ASK REPRESENTING THE FOLKS OF DISTRICT THREE IS WOULD MY CONSTITUENTS BE SAFER WITH OR WITHOUT SPY CHARTER? RIGHT. AND I THINK THAT'S SORT OF SOMETHING I HAVE TO ASK MYSELF AT THE END OF THE DAY,  DOES THIS TECHNOLOGY IN EVEN THE SLIGHTEST IF IT GIVES US AN UPTICK IN MAKING THE RESIDENTS MORE SAFE, IS IT MY OBLIGATION TO THEM TO PROTECT THOSE CONSTITUENTS?  I KNOW IT WAS SAID SOMEONE SAID IT WAS IT WAS TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE. I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK SHOTSPOTTER TECHNOLOGY WAS EVER THE INTENTION IDEALLY SURE BUT I DON'T THINK ITS INTENTION WAS EVER TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE AND WHAT WE NEVER WANT TO INFRINGE ON ON ANY CIVIL LIBERTIES AND I RESPECT THAT VERY MUCH.  I DO BELIEVE THE DATA IS IMPORTANT RIGHT INTO HOW WE USE OUR RESOURCES. AND SO YOU KNOW, GRANTED MAYBE NOTHING IS PERFECT BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO WE HAVE TO LOOK AT TAKING GOOD WITH THE BAD IN THAT AND I THINK THAT THE DATA IS IMPORTANT.  AS FOR PUBLICIZING AND GETTING PUBLIC MORE INVOLVED ESPECIALLY ON WHERE SPOT SHOOTER IS LOCATED, I HAVE TO ASK MYSELF AND AGAIN YOU GUYS CAN ANSWER IF YOU WOULD IT BE BETTER TO PUBLICIZE WHERE SPOT SHUTTER IS LOCATED AND WHAT DO THE FOLKS WHO INTEND TO INITIATE PUBLIC SHOOTINGS DO WITH THAT POTENTIAL PUBLIC INFORMATION IF THEY KNOW WHERE SPOT SHOOTER IS LOCATED THEN THEY MAY BE LESS LIKELY TO THEN FIRE IN THAT AREA. BUT THEN WHERE DOES IT DRIVE IT TO AND IS THAT FAIR TO THE RESIDENTS WHERE SPOT SHOOTER IS NOT LOCATED? IT COULD BE A BLOCK OVER A STREET AWAY. IT DOESN'T MATTER. RIGHT. BUT I THINK THAT'S A IT'S A IT'S A QUESTION I DO ASK AS FOR IT'S HOW IT'S USED IN COURTS.  I CAN SEE HOW IT'S USED MAY HAVE HOLES IN IT IN TERMS OF ACCURATE EVIDENCE. BUT I DO THINK IT'S THE COURTROOMS CALL TO DECIDE IF THAT USE AS EVIDENCE IS QUALIFIED. CERTAINLY THERE MAY BE A RAINY STORMY DAY AND THEY CAN SAY LOOK, SPY SHOT OR IS NOT ACCURATE TODAY AND YOU KNOW BETWEEN THUNDER OR WHAT I GRADE TO GIVE IT ALL THE TECHNOLOGY AND EVERYTHING HOW IT MAY BE THROWN OUT IN COURT BUT I THINK THAT'S FOR THE COURT TO DECIDE AND SO I DON'T THINK THAT IS A REASON TO SAY BECAUSE SOMETIMES AT TIMES IT IS IS NOT ACCURATELY HEARING THE SOUNDS OR IDENTIFYING THEM THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE USING IT. AS FOR THE DATA USE, I'M ALL ON BOARD WITH THAT RIGHT? I THINK THE DATA IS VERY IMPORTANT AND OF COURSE I'M FOR A STRONGER COUNCILOR PARTICIPATION AND WORKING WITH THE BPD IN UNDERSTANDING I DO THINK THERE IS AN ISSUE WITH MAYBE SOMETIMES PUBLICLY DISCLOSING ALL THAT AS MUCH AS IT IS JUST IN TERMS OF OF THE RESPECT AND PRIVACY THAT SOME THINGS NEED TO OCCUR IN AND TO NOT MAKE EVERYTHING PUBLIC A KIND OF BACK TO MY EARLIER QUESTION ABOUT DO WE JUST TELL EVERYONE WHERE WE'RE PUTTING THEM AND DOES THAT SORT OF DEFEAT THE PURPOSE?  AND LASTLY IN TERMS OF THE COUNCIL BEING INVOLVED, I BELIEVE IT'S ILLEGAL FOR THIS BODY TO BE INVOLVED IN CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ILLEGALLY DOING THE CONTRACTS FOR REDOING SPOT SHOT OR AN ACTIVATION AND STUFF UNDER SECTION 17 G THAT THIS BODY IS ACTUALLY ALLOWED TO EVEN BE INVOLVED IN THAT. SO I JUST WANT TO I JUST BRING THAT UP AS SORT OF A COUNTER TO THE THIS WE NEED TO BE MORE INVOLVED SOMETIMES WE ARE YOU KNOW WE CANNOT BE AND SO MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE CLARIFICATION NOT TO BE LIKE WE KNOW THE CLARIFICATION. YOU GUYS DID A GREAT JOB ALL OF YOU IN EXPLAINING IT AND SO DR. MATTHEWS, I SEE YOU SMILE AND LOOKING LIKE YOU'RE READY TO POUNCE ON MANY OF THE NUMBER OF THINGS I JUST SAID. SO WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD FIRST? WELL, I LOVE YOUR QUESTIONS. I THINK THEY'RE GREAT QUESTIONS AND I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THEM A LOT. AND FOR FULL DISCLOSURE, I WAS NEVER FOOL ENOUGH TO EMBARK UPON A DOCTORATE SO I DON'T HAVE ONE. OH, BUT DR. LAWRENCE DR. PETER MR MISSISSIPPI? YEAH. NOW I APOLOGIZE. THE PROFESSOR'S GREAT RESPECT TO THEM FOR GOING THROUGH THAT. MY WIFE DID ANYWAY, AS I SAY, I'VE SPENT SOME TIME THINKING ABOUT YOUR QUESTIONS AND THEY'RE IMPORTANT AS REGARDS WHEN IT COMES TO ASSUAGING THE CONCERNS THAT MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HAVE AND COUNCILOR FLYNN HAD A SIMILAR CONCERN.  THE QUESTION THEN COMES WITH HOW MUCH OF THE COUNCIL'S ENERGY AND HOW MUCH OF THE CITY'S BUDGET AND HOW MUCH OF THE GRANTS HE RECEIVE SHOULD BE DEVOTED TO DEALING WITH RELIEVING PEOPLE'S FEARS AND PEOPLE'S FEELINGS AND THE ANSWER BROADLY TAKEN IS NOT ZERO BECAUSE PEOPLE'S FEELINGS ABOUT CRIME AND ABOUT THE SAFETY OF THEIR CITY ARE IMPORTANT.  BUT I DO QUESTION WHETHER CHOOSING TO ASSUAGE THOSE FEARS IN THIS PARTICULAR WAY WHICH APPEARS TO BE IMPOSED IN A TOP DOWN WAY BY A SORT OF CONCLAVE OF PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICIALS AND IN A WAY THAT CARRIES WITH IT SIGNIFICANT RISKS OF CONSEQUENCES FOR THE CIVIL LIBERTIES OF MINORITY RESIDENTS IS THE BEST WAY TO BE ASSUAGING THE FEELINGS OF RESIDENTS.  AND I THINK IT'S OKAY TO BE ASKING THAT QUESTION WHEN IT COMES TO THE THE DATA GATHERING AND WAYS TO IMPROVE THAT. I'M GLAD THAT THERE IS A POTENTIAL AS I WAS INDICATING IN MY PRESENTATION FOR SIGNIFICANT COMMON GROUND AROUND IMPROVING THAT WHEN IT COMES TO QUESTIONS OF COUNCIL PARTICIPATION, THE SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCE SPECIFIES THAT CITY AGENCIES MAY SEEK FUNDING FOR SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES WITHOUT CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL AND I DO WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH SECTION 17. WHAT IT DOES SAY IS THAT CITY AGENCIES MAY NOT OBTAIN AND THE CITY AS A WHOLE MAY NOT OBTAIN FUNDING FOR SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY AND THEY MAY AND THEY MAY NOT MOVE FORWARD WITH CHANGE IN THE MANNER IN WHICH THAT SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY IS IMPLEMENTED. PARAPHRASING WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE CITY COUNCIL . AND SO WE HAVE TO PAY DUE RESPECT AND ATTENTION TO THE LEGAL CONSTRAINTS THAT YOU BRING UP AND ALSO THE LEGAL CONSTRAINTS OF THE ORDINANCE. THANK YOU DOCTOR.  PLEASE WALK IN. IT DOESN'T YOU KNOW SO I'LL START WITH D WOULD IT BE BETTER TO PUBLICIZE?  THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WAS REALLY INTERESTED A QUESTION I WAS REALLY INTERESTED IN AT THE BEGINNING OF OUR RESEARCH BECAUSE CHICAGO DID WIDELY PUBLICIZE THEIR TARGET AREA WHILE KANSAS CITY DECIDED TO KEEP IT CONFIDENTIAL.  I QUICKLY BECAME VERY UNINTERESTED IN THAT BECAUSE IT BECAME CLEAR TO ME THAT IN THE YEAR 2024 ANYONE COULD FIND OUT MOST OF THIS STUFF ANYWAY. SO AGAIN, DESPITE THE FACT THAT KANSAS CITY HAS NEVER AS A CITY OR POLICE DEPARTMENT ADVERTISED THAT LOCATION OF THEIR SENSORS A QUICK GOOGLE SEARCH OF KANSAS CITY SHOTSPOTTER IS GOING TO BRING UP MULTIPLE LOCAL KANSAS CITY AND NEWS MEDIA STORIES WITH MAPS OF THE TARGET AREA.  A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO WIRED LEAKED THE LOCATION OF SHOTSPOTTER SENSORS IN CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY.  SO IT'S KIND OF I'VE KIND OF GOT TO THE POINT WHERE THAT QUESTION KIND OF DOESN'T MATTER TO ME ANY MORE BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS ALL PUBLIC INFORMATION AT THIS POINT TO YOUR QUESTION OF WOULD YOUR CONSTITUENTS BE SAFER WITH OR WITHOUT SHOTSPOTTER, I THINK THAT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU DEFINE THE WORD SAFER IF BY SAFER YOU MEAN THAT LESS PEOPLE WILL BE STRUCK BY GUNFIRE. I THE RESEARCH IS DEVELOPED ENOUGH NOW FOR US TO SAY THAT THE ANSWER IS PROBABLY NO.  TO MY KNOWLEDGE THERE'S BEEN 15 RIGOROUS EVALUATIONS OF SHOTSPOTTER DONE ONLY TO HAVE FOUND EVIDENCE THAT SHOOTINGS REDUCE.  ONE WAS CONDUCTED IN CINCINNATI, THE OTHER ONE WAS CONDUCTED IN WINSTON-SALEM, NORTH CAROLINA. ALL OF THE OTHER CITIES HAVE NOW FOUND EVIDENCE OF THAT.  BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO BE HONEST THAT THERE'S OTHER POTENTIAL PUBLIC SAFETY BENEFITS THAT DON'T RELATE TO THE SIMPLE QUESTION OF WAS SOMEONE STRUCK BY GUNFIRE? RIGHT. THERE'S EMS RESPONSES. THERE'S VICTIM TRANSPORT. SO IN THOSE AND I HATE TO GIVE AN ANSWER THE ANSWERS MAYBE YOU WOULD MAKE IN GIVEN SOME OF THE OTHER STATEMENTS YOU WOULD MAKE AN EXCELLENT, TERRIBLE POLITICIAN WITH YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS NOT VERY GOOD.  I ONLY JUST I KNOW THE TIME IS UP BUT IT DOES SEEM TO ME THAT OVERALL IT'S MORE NOT WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD HAVE THE PROCESS BUT ITS IMPLEMENTATION AND WHO IS RUNNING IT THEIR TOP DOWN APPROACH OR BOTTOM UP APPROACH. SO IT'S MORE ABOUT THAT THAN YES OR NO SHOULD WE HAVE IT? THAT'S SORT OF WHAT I'M HEARING IN GENERAL BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT TIME IS UP. THANK YOU, JOHN. I APPRECIATE IT.  THANK YOU, COUNSELOR. I'LL TURN IT OVER TO COUNCILOR DURKIN.  THANK YOU, CHAIR AND.  I GUESS I'LL START OUT BY JUST SAYING I THINK GOOD GOVERNMENT RESPECTS THE PRIVACY OF ITS RESIDENTS LIKE GOOD GOVERNMENT PROTECTS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS . GOOD GOVERNMENT DOESN'T OVERPOLICED ITS RESIDENTS.  AND I THINK WHEN YOU KNOW UPON LOOKING AT A LOT OF THE INFORMATION THAT THE PANEL IS PROVIDED, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO CENTER OURSELVES IN A CONVERSATION ABOUT PRIVACY WHICH I THINK THIS PANEL HAS REALLY TOUCHED UPON A CONVERSATION ABOUT CITY COUNCIL AUTHORITY HERE AND WHICH I THINK HAS BEEN ADEQUATELY TOUCHED UPON.  BUT I THINK ALSO MY COLLEAGUE COUNCILOR FITZGERALD'S POINTS ABOUT WHAT OUR COMMUNITIES ARE ASKING FOR IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO CENTER AS ELECTED OFFICIALS AND I UNDERSTAND THAT HERE IN OUR CITY WE ARE ONE OF THE SAFEST CITIES IN AMERICA LIKE OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT IS WORKING REALLY HARD TO DELIVER THE SAFEST CITY POSSIBLE AND REPRESENTING DOWNTOWN NEIGHBORHOODS. YOU KNOW, I GET CALLS WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS IN OUR COMMUNITIES AND THE MEDIA WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT. A LOT OF TIMES IN OTHER COMMUNITIES THE MEDIA DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME QUICKNESS BECAUSE WHEN THEY HEAR SOMETHING'S HAPPENING IN DOWNTOWN BOSTON OR THEY HEAR SOMETHING'S HAPPENING IN BEACON HILL OR BACK BAY OR THE BOSTON COMMON, THEY QUICKLY THINK LIKE OH, I WANT TO TALK TO THE ELECTED OFFICIAL AND SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY BECAUSE CRIME DOESN'T USUALLY HAPPEN THERE.  SO I UNDERSTAND THAT MY ROLE AS DISTRICT COUNCILOR HERE IS TO ALSO LISTEN TO MY COLLEAGUES AND LISTEN TO COMMUNITIES THAT ARE THE MOST VULNERABLE AND THAT ARE THE MOST OVERPOLICED.  THE DISTRICT I REPRESENT IS NOT THAT BUT I ALSO WANT TO POINT TO LIKE BEING ONE OF THE SAFEST CITIES IN AMERICA. I HEAR A LOT OF POINTS TO CHICAGO WHICH HAS TAKEN A VERY DIFFERENT POLICE APPROACH THAN OUR OUR BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT.  SO I KIND OF WANT TO CENTER TO LIKE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF DIFFERENT CITIES. I THINK OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT TAKEN A DIFFERENT TACT BUT I ALSO WANTED TO POINT TO THE ORDINANCE WHICH I KNOW A LOT OF YOU HAVE DISCUSSED AND ONE OF THE POINTS WAS I THINK THIS IS IN YOUR STATEMENT THIS IS TRYING TO REMEMBER WHAT NUMBER THIS IS ON PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST. ONE OF THE POINTS THAT YOU MAKE IS THAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS THAT BPD CAN'T PATCH OR UPGRADE SOFTWARE BECAUSE IF THEY DO THEY NEED TO DO SO TO THEN IF THEY DO THAT THEY NEED TO DO TO THEY NEED TO UPGRADE TO MITIGATE THREATS.  I WOULD THINK THAT LIKE SOMEONE ON OUR STREETS WITH A GUN IS A THREAT TO OUR SOCIETY AND LIKE FINDING THAT PERSON AS SOON AS POSSIBLE LIKE IS A THREAT TO OUR SOCIETY.  SO I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN MORE WHAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE WITH MITIGATING THREATS AND SORT OF WHAT THE ORDINANCE DESCRIBES BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF MY CONSTITUENTS IF THEY READ THIS PARTICULAR PARAGRAPH AND I HAVE A LOT OF LAWYERS IN MY CONSTITUENCY I KNOW IF THEY READ THIS THREAT THEY WOULD SAY LIKE IS THERE AN ARGUMENT FOR THAT PATCH OR UPGRADE OR THAT EXPANSION TO BE MITIGATING A NECESSARY THREAT? SO THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION AND IT'S A VERY INTERESTING ONE WITH THE ORDINANCE AND, KATE, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU WERE DEEPLY, DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THIS.  YOU CAN CERTAINLY CORROBORATE OR NOT WHAT I WILL SAY NEXT THE ORDINANCE IN VISIONS THAT IF THERE IS NO CHANGE AT ALL TO A TECHNOLOGY THAT THEY WANTED TO THE DRAFTERS WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT CITY AGENCIES COULD CONTINUE WITH THAT TECHNOLOGY BEING AUTHORIZED IN A SITUATION WHERE THERE IS A MEANINGFUL CHANGE IN THE IN THE PURPOSES OR MANNER IN A TECHNOLOGY IS BEING DEPLOYED IN THE CITY,  THEN SORRY TO INTERRUPT. WOULD MORE LOCATIONS TO YOU I KNOW AS YOU DEFINE THAT LIKE CHANGE IN THE MANNER OF USE I THINK IF IF YOU HAVE AN EXPANSION IN THE GEOGRAPHICAL CIRCUMSTANCE DEPLOYMENT OF A TECHNOLOGY FROM SEVEN SQUARE MILES OF THE CITY TO NINE THEN THAT IS SUBSTANTIAL THEN THAT WOULD TRIGGER IT COMING BACK TO THE CITY COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL WHICH IS WHY I AM SAYING AGAIN IN MY LEAVE REVIEW OF THE MATTER IT LOOKS LIKE BPD DIDN'T DO THAT AND THEREFORE THEIR RENEWAL OF THE CONTRACT WAS NOT LEGAL.  NOW WHEN YOU ARE BRINGING UP MATTERS OF PATCHES AND UPGRADES THE DRAFTERS OF THE ORDINANCE RECOGNIZED THAT THAT REPRESENTED SOMETHING OF A MIDDLE GROUND AND THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO AFFORD SOME SORT OF OPERATIONAL FLEXIBILITY TO TO CITY DEPARTMENTS TO BE ABLE TO UPGRADE FROM SAY LEXISNEXIS 2.5 TO LEXISNEXIS 2.6 WITHOUT HAVING AN ENTIRE PROCESS OF HEARINGS ONE AND TWO AND THREE JUST BECAUSE I HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME I UNDERSTAND LIKE I THINK ON MY END IN TERMS OF CONTRACTS WITH COMPANIES THAT DO TECHNOLOGY I'VE I'VE EXECUTED A LOT OF THOSE IN MY FORMER JOB AS A CONSULTANT OFTENTIMES, YOU KNOW, THE BASE PACKAGE OF A CERTAIN TECHNOLOGY MIGHT SAY LIKE OH, YOU GET THIS MANY LOCATIONS AND THE BASE ONE FOR THE NEXT YEAR MIGHT SAY YOU GET THIS MANY LOCATIONS BECAUSE THE CONTRACTS AND THE PURVIEW OF THOSE CONTRACTS AND WHAT'S BEING OFFERED BY THE COMPANY MAY HAVE CHANGED. SO I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON THIS PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY AND I DON'T KNOW IF IF IF ANYONE COULD ANSWER SORT OF IF YOU HAVE IF ANYONE HAS LOOKED INTO OF WHAT THESE CONTRACTS LOOK LIKE AND IN TERMS OF WHAT POTENTIALLY THE BASE PACKAGE WOULD LOOK LIKE BECAUSE I THINK WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE WITH THE EXPANSION OF LIKE MILEAGE, I JUST KNOW HAVING PURCHASED A LOT OF TECHNOLOGY ON BEHALF OF CLIENTS, I KNOW SOMETIMES THOSE TERMS CHANGE WITH THE VENDOR AND THE TECHNOLOGY SO AND SORRY AND I DID WANT TO GET INTO A LITTLE BIT WITH THE AUDIO SNIPPETS AND I DON'T KNOW CADE, I KNOW THE ACLU DOES GREAT WORK AND I JUST I'M CURIOUS I KNOW SHOTSPOTTER AND ONE OF THE STATEMENTS ARE AND I KNOW I'M RUNNING OUT OF TIME THE ACLU AND I THINK ONE OF THE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT OFFERED TESTIMONY TODAY TALKED ABOUT SHOTSPOTTER COMMITTING TO REMOVE THE AUDIO SNIPPETS BUT THE AUDIO SNIPPETS STILL EXIST. DO YOU DO YOU KNOW RIGHT NOW LIKE WOW, WHAT USEFUL THIS THAT PROVIDES TO BE AND AND WHETHER IT IS BEING BY OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO COUNCILOR DURKIN WELL I CAN TELL YOU THAT WE DO HAVE PRETTY GRAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE PRESENCE OF SECRET MICROPHONES THROUGHOUT PREDOMINANTLY BLACK AND LATINO NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE LISTENING ALL THE TIME AND YOU KNOW, THE COMPANY HAS MADE REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT WHAT THOSE MICROPHONES CAN AND CANNOT HEAR.  IT IS THE CASE THAT IN PROSECUTION HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS SOME YEARS AGO PROSECUTORS ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE AUDIO RECORDING OF A HUMAN VOICES ON THE STREET THAT CAME FROM A SHOTSPOTTER MICROPHONE.  SO THAT DOES RAISE VERY SIGNIFICANT CONCERNS FOR US ABOUT POTENTIALLY WIDESPREAD VIOLATIONS OF THE WIRETAP ACT OCCURRING ACROSS THE CITY OF BOSTON AGAIN IN EXCLUSIVELY THE PREDOMINANTLY BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES. SO YEAH, WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, NO QUESTION. THANK YOU. AND I JUST I KNOW I'M OUT OF TIME.  JUST WANTED TO POINT TO THIS IS FROM SECTION ONE OF THE FORCE OF YOUR IN CASE ANYONE WAS LOOKING FOR WHAT I WAS DESCRIBING IT'S FROM THE DIGITAL FORTH AND IT'S IN SECTION ONE SO THANK YOU.  THANK YOU COUNCILOR COUNCILOR MURPHY YOU KNOW HOW SOME OF THAT THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. I WAS LISTENING IN TO THE PRESENTATION BACK AND FORTH FROM THE STATE HOUSE ALSO SO NO REAL DIRECT QUESTIONS JUST THINKING THROUGH THIS TECHNOLOGY. IT'S ONE TOOL TO USE. IT'S NOT THE ONLY TOOL WE USE AND THE STATISTICS OF AND I'M PRETTY SURE AT ZERO IF A GUNSHOT OR THE CAR BACKFIRE SOMEONE THINKS IT'S A GUNSHOT IF IT'S A FIRECRACKER THIS IF THERE'S A SPOT SHOT IN THE AREA IT WILL PICK IT UP. BUT IS THERE ANY CASE EVER THAT RESIDENTS AREN'T CALLING 911 ALREADY SO THE POLICE ARE ALREADY NOTIFIED IF THEY THINK THERE IS SOUND OF GUNFIRE AND MAYBE THE POLICE ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE TO ANSWER THAT. BUT THE IDEA THAT THE SPOT CHARTER WOULD BRING, YOU KNOW, FIRST RESPONDERS TO AN AREA AND THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD BRING IT TO THE AREA THEY'RE ALREADY GOING TO BE SHOWING UP BECAUSE THERE ARE RESIDENTS WHO HEAR IT OR YOU KNOW, 911 IS CALLED OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT AS INSTANT BUT CAN I TAKE A MOMENT TO ANSWER THAT?  YEAH, SURE. ABSOLUTELY. SO YOU MAY HAVE MISSED MY TESTIMONY EARLIER BUT I'VE LOOKED AT THIS RESEARCH IN MILWAUKEE, DENVER AND RICHMOND, CALIFORNIA AND IN ALL THREE OF THOSE CITIES THE AMOUNT OF SHOOTING NOTIFICATION. SO WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO HERE NEARLY DOUBLES AFTER GDP IS IMPLEMENTED.  SO THE THE ARE THE NEXT LINE THOUGHT IS THERE ARE MANY MANY INSTANCES WHERE OFFICERS ARE GOING TO RESPONSE TO SHOOTING EVENTS THAT COMMITTEE MEMBERS ARE NOT CALLING INTO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THROUGH A911 CALL FOR SERVICE SO I WOULD THINK THAT THAT MEANS IT'S GOOD TO HAVE THIS TECHNOLOGY BECAUSE THE POLICE AND THE AMBULANCE AND FIRST RESPONDERS ARE SHOWING UP ON THE SCENE AND POSSIBLY HUMANS HAVE BEEN SHOT AT.  I THINK THAT THAT IS ONE OF THE GOOD POTENTIAL MEASURES THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT AND WHAT WE WERE SEEING IN THE TESTIMONY PRESENTED BY THE POLICE WAS THERE WAS A CASE WHERE WHERE THEY PRESENT WHERE THERE WAS A SHOTSPOTTER ALERT WITH NO ACCOMPANYING 911 CALL WHERE SOMEBODY ANKLE WAS GRAZED BY A BULLET AND THE AND SHOTSPOTTER WAS ABLE TO RESULT IN A DEPLOYMENT AND THAT'S NOT NOTHING THERE WAS ANOTHER CASE WHERE SOMEBODY SHOT AT AND GOD KNOWS I WOULD NOT LIKE TO BE SHOT AT I'M SORRY DID YOU SAY GOD KNOWS AND GOD KNOWS I WOULD NOT LIKE TO BE SHOT OUT. IT WOULD BE VERY SCARY. SO YEAH, COULD BE DEADLY.  WELL IN THIS CASE IN THIS CASE THE PERSON IS NOT HURT BUT SO THOSE ARE MATTERS FOR COUNCILOR TO TAKE CONSIDERATION . BUT ONE ELEMENT HERE OF HOW MUCH DIFFERENCE THERE IS MADE IS THAT THE MORE WE LOOKED AT THIS, THE MORE WE WONDERED WHETHER THE DIFFERENCE IN TIMING THE SHOTSPOTTER IN TERMS OF GETTING PEOPLE OUT MORE QUICKLY THAN A NINE ON ONE CALL MIGHT BE BEING DRIVEN BY THE FACT THAT THEY'RE MORE WIDELY REPORTED ON DIFFICULTIES WITH THE 911 SYSTEM IN BOSTON THERE WERE STAFFING DIFFICULTIES.  THERE ARE FUNDING DIFFICULTIES. THERE WERE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES THERE THAT MAY INCREASE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO IN BOSTON SPECIFICALLY. SO I WANT TO RAISE THAT AS A POSSIBILITY THAT IT MAY BE DRIVING SOME OF THE PATTERNS IN THE DATA.  THANK YOU. THANK YOU.  THANK YOU, COUNSELOR. I DO WANT TO TELL THE NEXT HEARING WILL NOW START AT THREE. I DO WANT TO JUST GIVE ANOTHER QUICK ROUND IF ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE STILL WITH US HAVE ANY FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS AGAIN YOU CAN ASK TO PANELISTS AND TO THE TO THE PREVIOUS PANELIST AND I STILL SEE THAT IS STILL WITH YOU WITH US HERE TODAY. COUNSELOR WEBER YOU HAVE THE FLOOR JUST A JUST A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS AND THIS THIS MAY BE FOR THE PANEL AND SOMEONE FROM BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. YEAH, IT LOOKS LIKE FROM THE CHICAGO NEW YORK AUDIT STUDIES THAT THERE WAS A RELATIVELY HIGH PERCENTAGE OF OF INSTANCES WHERE SHOTSPOTTER WAS TRIGGERED BUT THERE WAS NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OR EVIDENCE OF A YOU KNOW AND I THINK IT WAS OF OF OF GUNFIRE SOMETHING LIKE 90% OF THE CASES IN CHICAGO AND 87% OF THE CASES IN NEW YORK. BUT I THINK WHAT WE SAW FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HERE TODAY WAS I THOUGHT IT SAID 44% OF THE THE 423 INSTANCES AND 2023 HAD BALLISTIC EVIDENCE OF GUNFIRE.  IF ANYBODY SAW THAT THE ACADEMICS IF YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON YOU KNOW, IS THIS JUST A RELATIVELY SMALL SAMPLE ,YOU KNOW, LIKE WHAT WOULD EXPLAIN IS THERE A DIFFERENCE OR YOU KNOW, BETWEEN WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OTHER CITIES BOSTON OR ARE WE INTERPRETING THE DATA IN WAYS THAT WE DON'T KNOW OR DO YOU DON'T AGREE WITH OR DO WHAT DATA DO WE NEED TO ACTUALLY COME UP WITH THAT NUMBER? YES, GOING BACK MY DEAR YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO MY PRIOR POINT THAT I WAS SAYING TO ME THE NUMBER OF SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS THAT DID NOT TURN UP EVIDENCE OF A SHOOTING MEANS NOTHING WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT HAPPENS WHEN POLICE RESPOND TO JUST A REGULAR 911 CALLS FOR SHOTS FIRED BECAUSE THAT NUMBER IN ISOLATION MAKES AN IMPLICIT ASSUMPTION THAT EVERY TIME POLICE RESPOND TO 911 CALLS THEY FIND SOMETHING THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT THE CASE. SO TO ME WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO CONTEXTUALIZE THOSE NUMBERS AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE I DON'T THINK THE NEW YORK CITY OR THE CHICAGO OIG REPORTS MADE THIS COMPARISON. BUT TO ME WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO CONTEXTUALIZE THAT NUMBER IS HOW MANY 911 CALLS SIMILARLY DON'T LEAD TO ANY EVIDENCE.  YEAH, THANKS, COUNCILMEMBER. I'D LIKE TO OFFER A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.  I DISAGREE IN PART BECAUSE WELL ,EXCLUSIVELY BECAUSE WE HAVE HEARD THAT IT IS THE CASE THAT SHOTSPOTTER ALERTS FOR INCIDENTS FOR WHICH THERE IS NO 911 CALL RIGHT. SO THERE ARE INCIDENTS IN WHICH SHOTSPOTTER IS SENDING POLICE TO A NEIGHBORHOOD NO. 911 CALL WAS MADE AND THEN WHEN POLICE GET THERE THEY DON'T FIND ANY EVIDENCE OF A SHOOTING. SO FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE FROM THE CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES PERSPECTIVE THAT IS POTENTIALLY A COST OPPORTUNITY FOR THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. IT IS ALSO POTENTIALLY AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THERE TO OCCUR SOME SORT OF , YOU KNOW, INTERACTION BETWEEN MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AGAIN IN BLACK AND BROWN NEIGHBORHOODS WHICH OTHERWISE WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED WHICH COULD LEAD TO, YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATE CONSEQUENCES FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ENGAGED BY POLICE OFFICERS.  OKAY. YEAH, I DON'T I DON'T KNOW IF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT BUT MAYBE NOT AND NOBODY STANDING. CAN I ALSO JUST SAY I WAS SURPRISED BY THAT FIGURE AS WELL BY THE FIGURE THAT THE POLICE SHOWED THIS MORNING AND I INTEND TO FOLLOW UP WITH THEM TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT HOW THEY CALCULATED THAT. YEAH, I GUESS JUST FOR THE RECORD WE LIKE TO SEE THE RAW DATA.  YOU KNOW HOW HOW HOW THE POLICE WERE AND CAME UP WITH THAT.  IT JUST AND IT COULD JUST BE WE HAVE A MUCH SMALLER SAMPLE SIZE HERE AND IT'S NOT STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT OR YOU KNOW FOR THE ACADEMICS BUT ANYWAY I'LL JUST END WITH A QUICK COMMENT. I JUST SAW THE ON THE THERE'S AN AP STORY OUT OF NEW YORK FEDERAL COURT IN NEW JERSEY FROM JUDGE SHERIDAN WHO I KNOW VERY WELL.  I HAD A CASE IN FRONT OF HIM FOR ABOUT 12 YEARS AND HE JUST STRUCK DOWN THE NEW JERSEY'S BAN ON AR 15, YOU KNOW, RIFLES FINDING THAT AND SORT OF OBJECTING BUT FINDING THAT HE WAS REQUIRED TO FIND THAT WAY BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT'S RECENT RULINGS I MEAN AS WE'RE HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS, I FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHERE REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT SHOTSPOTTER, EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE LESS GUN VIOLENCE AND WE'RE SORT OF I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE EXPRESSION IS REARRANGING THE DECK CHAIRS ON THE TITANIC SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT WHERE WE HAVE A SYSTEM THAT IS INCENTIVIZING OWNERSHIP, YOU KNOW, AND ALLOWING OWNERSHIP OF COMBAT,  YOU KNOW, ACROSS THE COUNTRY. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I HOPE THAT WE CAN ALSO WHILE WE'RE DOING THIS TRY TO, YOU KNOW, ADVOCATE FOR FOR ALL WE CAN OUT OF ANY OF THE PANELISTS HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT. I DO IS THAT AS YOU KNOW THIS WEEK THE LEGISLATURE FINALIZED NEW GUN LEGISLATION WHICH IS GOING TO HELP POLICE GO AFTER GHOST GUNS AND YOU KNOW, PROHIBIT THE CARRYING OF WEAPONS IN PLACES LIKE THIS BUILDING AND SCHOOLS.  SO IT'S A MIXED BAG DEFINITELY IN TERMS OF THE LAW. ADDITIONALLY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS KIND OF TO COUNCILOR DURKIN'S EARLIER POINT TOO ABOUT THE ROLE THAT BOSTON POLICE OFFICERS PLAY IN KEEPING OUR COMMUNITIES SAFE GUN ARE CERTAINLY HUGELY SIGNIFICANT AND THERE ARE STUDIES TO SHOW THAT GUN LAWS ARE PREDICTIVE OF GUN HOMICIDE RATES.  THERE ARE ALSO INTERESTING STUDIES THAT POINT TO THE IMPORTANCE OF ROBUST CIVIL SOCIETY IN COMMUNITIES IN REDUCING VIOLENCE. ONE OF THOSE STUDIES FOUND THAT THE PRESENCE OF NONPROFITS IN A CITY DRAMATICALLY REDUCES GUN VIOLENCE AND HOMICIDE SPECIFICALLY.  SO YOU KNOW, I JUST WANT COUNCILORS TO BE AWARE THAT BOSTON HAS ACHIEVED SOMETHING IMPORTANT A MASSIVE REDUCTION OVER THE PAST 40 YEARS OR SO IN HOMICIDES AND GUN VIOLENCE.  YOU KNOW, I DO CREDIT THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR THE IMPORTANT ROLE THAT THEY'VE PLAYED IN THAT BUT THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ALONE. YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN A NETWORK OF COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS AND NONPROFITS AND GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WHO HAVE ALSO PARTICIPATED IN THAT REALLY IMPORTANT TRANSFORMATION TO MAKE OUR COMMUNITY SAFER FOR ALL PEOPLE.  OKAY. YEAH. AND I WILL JUST WRAP UP BY SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE WORK THAT OUR BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT IS DOING IN MAKING THIS CITY SO SAFE AND THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT COMMUNITIES PREDOMINATELY BLACK ,BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES. I HAVE YOU KNOW, ANECDOTALLY WE ASKED A LOT OF BOSTON POLICE OFFICERS OVER THE LAST MONTH OR SO ABOUT SHOTSPOTTER AND REGARDLESS OF THEIR RACE THEY'VE BEEN IN FAVOR OF IT AND THEY THINK IT'S A IT'S A GOOD TOOL.  I THINK, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE CAN PROVIDE OVERSIGHT AND IT'S OUR DUTY TO DO THAT AND YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY WHAT'S HAPPENED IN OTHER CITIES AND WHAT YOU KNOW WHAT STUDIES HAVE FOUND CONCERNING AND MAYBE IT'S NOT WE'RE NOT USING THE TOOL IN THE BEST BUT YOU KNOW, I JUST MY MY GRATITUDE GOES TO OUR POLICE OFFICERS OUT THERE. SO THANK YOU, CHAIR THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNSELOR COUNSELOR FOR THE DESIGNERS AND IF YOU HAVE ANY FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS AGAIN FOR EITHER PANEL THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.  I'D LIKE TO ADD TO MY COLLEAGUE COUNCILOR WEBER. I'D LIKE TO THANK THE NONPROFITS AND ALL OF THE SOCIAL DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH SERVICES THAT HAVE PROVEN TO ALSO CONTRIBUTE TO OUR SAFETY AND IMPROVEMENTS AS WE KNOW IT. GUN VIOLENCE IS DIRECTLY CORRELATED WITH SYSTEMIC RACISM IN OPPRESSIVE STRUCTURES AND OVERPOLICING IS ONE OF THEM. AND SO IF WE'RE TALKING, WE KNOW AS WE KNOW WHAT EVIDENCE BASED SOLUTIONS MEANS THAT WE ARE PROACTIVELY AND PREVENTATIVELY IMPLEMENTING SOCIAL DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH INVESTMENTS IN ORDER TO CURB THAT. AND SO I WOULD I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR PPD IF YOU COULD PLEASE COME DOWN TO ANSWER THEM. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. THROUGH THE CHAIR THANK YOU.  AND I GUESS WHILE YOU'RE COMING DOWN I THINK WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT YOU KNOW A LOT ABOUT HOW YOU KNOW SHOTSPOTTER IT IT LIKE SORT OF LIKE THE COMMON SENSE IS FOR EXAMPLE IT'S A PROGRAM ORGANIZATION THAT'S GOING TO DO LIKE SENSORS IN ROXBURY, IN DORCHESTER TO ACTUALLY MEASURE DATA ON ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT. AND SO WE ALWAYS WANT DATA. WE WANT SENSORS THAT GIVES US DATA AND SO TO THAT I YOU KNOW, I SEE THE BENEFIT AND EVEN IF IT'S NOT PERFECT, EVEN IF SOMETIMES LIKE FOR EXAMPLE UNFORTUNATELY SOME OF US GREW UP WITH A LOT OF TRAUMA AND WE HAVE EXPERIENCE THAT WE KNOW WHEN IT'S A REAL GUNSHOT AND SOME OF US KNOW WHEN IT'S NOT A REAL GUNSHOT, RIGHT? SO SHOTSPOTTER A MACHINE OR A TECHNOLOGY DOES NOT.  RIGHT. AND SO IT'S NOT PERFECT AND IF IT'S 16% OF THAT THEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER THE REST OF THE TIME ACTUALLY CREATING SOME IMPACT. I WE HEARD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SPECIFICALLY IT IS NOT REDUCE VIOLENCE BECAUSE THAT'S NOT THE INTENT OBVIOUSLY IT'S THE INTENT IS TELL US WHEN SOMETHING'S GOING DOWN AND SO THAT WE CAN RESPOND. AND SO THEN THE CONCERN FROM COMMUNITY ACLU ACADEMICS AND OTHER RESEARCH IS SHOWING, YOU KNOW, THE THE LEVEL OF OVERPOLICING AND YOU CAN SEE THAT YOU CAN SEE SORT OF LIKE THE IMPACT PSYCHOLOGICALLY THE PATHOLOGY OF ANY HUMAN BEING CHANGING SAYING NATURALLY I'M GOING DOWN THE STREET THAT I KNOW USUALLY GETS A LOT OF CALLS, USUALLY GETS A LOT OF OR PROVEN TO HAVE A LOT OF YOU KNOW, GUN VIOLENCE THEN NATURALLY YOU'RE A LITTLE APPREHENSIVE AND SO WILL A POLICE OFFICER. SO WILL THE PARANOIA KICK IN AND SO MORE STOP AND FRISK, MORE ISSUES, MORE IMPACT.  AND SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT IT'S NOT REDUCING VIOLENCE AND SCARILY AND I AM ONE THAT BELIEVES THAT TO REDUCE VIOLENCE AGAIN WE HAVE TO WORK ON A STRUCTURE. IT'S OUR POLICE REDUCING VIOLENCE POLICE CAN DO SOME REFORM AND I THINK BOSTON WE DO GOOD IN TERMS OF YOU KNOW, WORKING TOWARDS THAT TRAJECTORY. BUT IN TERMS OF , YOU KNOW, INVESTING TO ACTUALLY CURB GUN VIOLENCE, I THINK THAT IT'S LIKE 90% NOT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.  AND SO WHAT I WOULD ASK YOU THEN IS IF IT'S NOT IF IT'S IF IT'S NOT THE THE QUESTION ABOUT REDUCING VIOLENCE AND IT HAS SOME POSITIVE IMPACT THEN AH WITH THAT WITHOUT IT ARE WE JUST AS EFFECTIVE? LIKE THAT'S THE THAT'S THE QUESTION HERE WITHOUT IT CAN WE ARE WE GETTING CALLS HAVE WE MEASURE THAT. HOW ARE WE THINKING ABOUT MEASURING THAT IN TERMS OF THE ANALYSIS AND THE DIFFERENT VARIABLES THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT EARLIER.  THINK IF YOU I MEAN WITHOUT IT UNFORTUNATELY WE WOULD WE WOULDN'T KNOW THAT THERE WAS A SHOOTING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT GOING ON WITHOUT SHOTSPOTTER WITHOUT ANY 911 CALLS I'M JUST BEING YOU KNOW LIKE WITHOUT THE CALLS. YES THAT'S CORRECT. SO IT DOES PLAY A ROLE WHEN THERE IS NO ONE CALLING 911 AND IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO CALL 911 AS OPPOSED TO OTHER COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY KNOW IF THEY CALL NO ONE THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO GET GOOD SERVICE. DO YOU HAVE THE DATA COMPARING THE CALL? I DON'T HAVE DATA THIS IN GENERAL SPEAKING AS A CITIZEN WHO WAS BORN AND RAISED, YOU KNOW I ASK YOU HUH? DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WAS GONNA ASK? YOU KNOW, MAN YOU DON'T KNOW FIELD HOW ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER ME THEN I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU JUST THERE'S JUST IN GENERAL LIKE COMMON KNOWLEDGE LIKE YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT YOU KNOW LIKE SPECIFIC I WAS GOING TO ASK YES ME YOU KNOW THE DATA SHOTSPOTTER GETTING PEOPLE TO COP TO TO OUT ON FIELD AND COMPARE TO THE CALLS PLACES THAT DON'T HAVE THEM THE CALLS DO YOU HAVE WE DONE SOME SORT OF NO BUT WE PUT CALLS ARE JUST AS EFFECTIVE WITHOUT THEM NO BUT WITH ALL DUE RESPECT YOU BRING UP A VALID POINT WE COULD DO AN ANALYSIS ON THAT AND TO TRY TO BRING BACK TO THE COUNCIL . OKAY. DO WE HAVE WE HAVE WE LOOKED INTO THAT INTO WHAT EXACTLY COMPARING AREAS THAT DON'T HAVE SHOTSPOTTER IS CALLING TO AREAS THAT DO HAVE SHOTSPOTTER AND GETTING A RESPONSE SO IS IT EFFECTIVE WITHOUT IT LIKE ARE WE ARE WE STILL MAKING CALLS LIKE RELYING ON OUR CITIZENS TO MAKE CALLS? SO IN IN MY RESEARCH WE FOUND THAT THERE WERE NO DIFFERENCE IN SHOTSPOTTER AREAS VERSUS OTHER AREAS IN CHICAGO IN TERMS FOR CALLS IN KANSAS CITY FOLLOWING THE INTRODUCTION OF SHOTSPOTTER CALLS FOR GUNFIRE ACTUALLY REDUCED IN THE SHOTSPOTTER AREA COMPARED TO THE OTHER AREAS OF KANSAS CITY. LAST PART OF CITIZEN CALLS FOR SOUNDS OF SHOTS FIRED REDUCED IN KANSAS CITY'S SHOTSPOTTER TARGET AREA COMPARED TO THE NON SHOTSPOTTER AREAS OF KANSAS CITY. OKAY LOOKING THAT I ALSO FOUND IN MY RESEARCH THAT COMMUNITY CALLS FOR SERVICE GO DOWN AFTER THE IMPLEMENTATION OF SHOTSPOTTER AND THE RESULT OF THAT IS REALLY BECAUSE COMMITTEE MEMBERS NOW ASSUME THAT POLICE IS GOING TO AUTOMATICALLY RESPOND TO SHOOTINGS THAT THEY HEARD BUT THEY ASSUME THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO CALL NOW BECAUSE SHOTSPOTTER ACCEPTS THEM. THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.  SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE SOME ANALYSIS TO DO LIKE WE HAVE SOME STUDIES TO DO BEFORE WE CAN ACTUALLY TOTALLY SAY IN AND I, I WOULD I'M TOTALLY OPEN TO WHATEVER IS A RESEARCH BASED EVIDENCE DRIVEN RIGHT LIKE I'M TOTALLY OPEN TO VOTING IN THE WAY THAT I BELIEVE THAT IS LIKE EVIDENCE BASED. SO I WANT TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION BUT I WANT TO LOOK AT FURTHER ANALYSIS TO FIGURE OUT LIKE WHAT WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE? ARE WE WASTING MONEY OR ARE WE NOT? AND THEN YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A PROPONENT OF SAYING LIKE THE REASON WHY I THINK ESPECIALLY POLICE OFFICERS IN TERMS OF QUALITY OF LIFE YOU ARE GOING OVER TIME YOU WERE DOING ALL OF THIS AND I THINK YOU KNOW THE OVER CALLS OR OUR FESTIVALS OR WHATEVER THE REASONS ARE THAT YOU ARE IN TOTAL OVERDRIVE LIKE YOUR QUALITY OF LIFE IS THAT QUESTION AND I ALWAYS SAY LIKE I'M I'M SYMPATHETIC. I'M SYMPATHETIC TO THAT BECAUSE IT'S LIKE WELL HOW ARE YOU PERFORMING IF YOU WORK OVERTIME ALL THE TIME AND SLEEP DEPRIVED OR WHATEVER OTHER TRAUMA THAT YOU FACE SO THERE'S THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT REFORM ON THAT LEVEL AND SO WITH YOU KNOW, WITH MY COLLEAGUE WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO MY COLLEAGUE, I THINK IT'S MORE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE GETTING PAID WELL AND NOT WORKING OVERTIME AS OPPOSED TO ALL OF THIS. YOU KNOW, LET'S JUST GET MORE AND MORE.  LET'S JUST DO MORE. NO, NO, WE APPRECIATE THAT BECAUSE YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE OFFICERS DOING DOUBLE SHIFTS, YOU KNOW, ON YOUR SECOND SHIFT, YEAH, YOU'RE GOING TO YOU KNOW, YOUR BODY I'M 59 YEARS OLD. I CAN'T DO WHAT I DID WHEN I WAS 29 YEARS OLD. BUT IT DOES TAKE AN EFFECT ON YOU PSYCHOLOGICALLY IF YOU IF YOU'RE IF YOU'RE BURNT OUT, THAT'S WHEN WHEN MISTAKES CAN BE MADE OR YOU FALL ASLEEP YOU COULD EVEN CRASH IN A POLICE CRUISER BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU'RE JUST OVERWHELMED. SO IT AND WE'RE ARE SHORTHANDED. WE IF WE HAD 500 MORE POLICE OFFICERS I THINK WE WOULD DO A MUCH BETTER JOB. BUT THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ANY TIME SOON. SO WE'RE WE HAVE TO DO THE BEST WE CAN WITH THE RESOURCES WE HAVE AND WE HAVE TO TRY TO LIKE WE'RE DOING SHIFTS. WE DO SHIFTS LIKE WE TAKE PEOPLE OUT OF SPECIALIZED UNITS AND WE PUT THEM IN DISTRICTS JUST TO GIVE THOSE OFFICERS IN THE DISTRICT, YOU KNOW, SOME SOME TIME TO TO TO TAKE A BREAK. AND WE DO, YOU KNOW, SHIFT LIKE THAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO BE PROACTIVE. WHAT WE'RE DOING LESS WITH ARE WE'RE DOING MORE WITH LESS BUT WE APPRECIATE YOUR RIGHT BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT I DON'T I'M TRYING TO NOT EXPRESS MYSELF CORRECTLY BUT I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, MA'AM. I THINK WE ALL HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER. I THINK YOU'VE BEEN YOU'RE YOU EXPLAINED IT JUST PERFECTLY. I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I APPRECIATE YOUR RESPONSE. THE CONVERSATION IN HERE. I THINK HOPEFULLY THE NEXT STEP HERE IS FOR US TO ACTUALLY HAVE REAL CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT ARE THE FUTURE LIKE ANALYSIS SO THAT WE CAN COMPARE THEM TO ELSEWHERE YOU AND THE ACADEMICS AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S HAPPENING AND ALSO ACCOUNTABILITY IN TERMS OF YOU KNOW, IMPLEMENTATION OF PERFORMANCE AND HOW YOU ENGAGE IN COMMUNITY. I IF YOU'RE ENGAGED IN COMMUNITY IF THIS IS ENGAGED IN COMMUNITY YOU SEE THAT THE COMMUNITY IMPACTED IS NOT HERE AND SO THAT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN THAT'S REALLY CONCERNING. SO I GO BACK TO WHAT THE WERE SAYING THAT BASICALLY OR THE ATTORNEYS SAYING THAT BASICALLY YOU KNOW, WE'RE HERE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION BUT PEOPLE NEED TO GET INVOLVED AND YOU WILL NOT KNOW WHAT PEOPLE ARE FEELING ABOUT A THING OR YOU WILL GET MORE OF THE FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERMS PEOPLE THAT ARE LESS EDUCATED ON HOW THIS THING IS WORK, LESS EDUCATED ON THE DATA AND THEY'LL SAY YEAH, WE NEED THIS.  ABSOLUTELY. AND THEN COUNSELORS OF COURSE ON CAMERA AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE WE ALL DO IT. WE ALL HAVE TO SAY LIKE YEAH WE GOT TO PROTECT OUR CONSTITUENTS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO THE LIKE THEORETICALLY BUT THEN IN ACTUALITY WHAT IS EVIDENCE BASED AND WE HAVE NOT DONE THAT WORK FOR US TO GENERALIZE YOU KNOW, A HANDFUL OF CONSTITUENTS WE HAVE NOT ACTUALLY ENGAGED COMMUNITY IN A REAL WAY THAT WE KNOW WHAT COMMUNITY PAIN POINTS ARE OR WHAT THEIR COMPLAINTS ARE ABOUT SHOTS I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE CREDIT FOR IT BUT WE DO HAVE COMMUNITY COMPSTAT.  WE GO INTO DIFFERENT DISTRICTS OF DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES AND WE WORK WITH THEM AND IT'S NOT I'M NOT TAKE CREDIT FOR IT BECAUSE RYAN WAS IN THE PEOPLE WORKING TO BREAK THEY PUT THIS TOGETHER THAT DOES AN AMAZING JOB. SO I THINK THAT YOU INVEST YOU NEED TO INVEST MORE IN THE COMMUNITY REFORM AND RELATIONSHIP THAN YOU DO ON THE OTHER STUFF. BUT THAT'S THAT'S GOING TO BE LIKE A COFFEE OR SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T DO WELL. BUT HE'S GOING TO CUT ME OFF.  HE'S HE'S A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE AND I'M NOT AFRAID OF HIM BUT I RESPECT SO I RESPECT YOU WHATEVER, MAN, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO ASK OF ME I WE I THINK WE SHARE COMMON GROUND. WE WANT WHAT'S BEST FOR OUR CITY, WANT WHAT'S BEST FOR OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR PEOPLE IN OUR CITY. I THINK THE POLICE DEPARTMENT JUST DOES A HORRIBLE JOB ENGAGING COMMUNITY BECAUSE IT'S NOT PART OF YOUR JOB AND IT NEEDS TO BE PART OF YOUR JOB. IT NEEDS TO BE PART OF THE DEPARTMENT NOT YOUR JOB WHERE IT'S COLLABORATIONS WITH, YOU KNOW, EXPERTS THAT DOES SOCIAL WORK AND SERVICES TO ENGAGE THE COMMUNITY IN A WAY THAT YOU CAN BUILD RELATIONSHIPS IN A DIFFERENT WAY SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY HEAR FROM THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE AND NOT JUST POLITICIANS THAT HAVE TO SAY A THING ON RECORD BUT I WANT YOU TO KNOW I'M PART OF YOUR COMMUNITY.  ARE YOU MY CONSTITUENTS? I LIVE IN THE CITY OF BOSTON BORN AND RAISED THERE SO I AM PART OF YOUR CITY.  YOU ALL LOOK FINALLY SO LATINO I ENDORSING OKAY WELL THAT WILL BE YEAH THE CHAIR HAS BEEN MORE THAN GRACIOUS WITH THE TIME. NO THANK YOU I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR YOUR ENGAGEMENT I WILL I WILL ENGAGE FURTHER I'LL DO MY PART IN MEETING WITH YOU GUYS AND HOPEFULLY IT'S ACLU AND YOU GUYS THE ACADEMIC THING YOU GUYS AND THEN WE CAN HAVE THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT LOOKING AT REAL ANALYSIS SO THAT WE CAN FIGURE OUT LIKE ARE WE WASTING MONEY? ARE YOU ARE DOES THIS PROPEL INCREASE OVERPOLICING AND WE KNOW IT DOES BUT I'M SAYING LIKE IS IT MORE GOOD THAN HARM? I THINK I THINK IF WE COME TOGETHER AND WE FIND COMMON GROUND WE'RE GOING TO DO A LOT BETTER FOR THE CITY AND FOR YOUR CONSTITUENTS, FOR EVERYONE AND FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HERE YOU SAY THAT I APPRECIATE YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU AND THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. I'M SORRY THAT'S MY TIME. I LOOK FORWARD TO AGAIN DOING MY PART INTO A MORE HOMEWORK SO I CAN BE MORE ENGAGED AND I HAVE BEEN I APPRECIATE YOUR WORK.  THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNSELOR.  WELL, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I KNOW YOU DO NOT HAVE IF YOU HAVE I WANT TO GIVE YOU A SPACE IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THIS. YEAH, I THINK IT WAS SOMETHING THAT CAME UP EARLIER ABOUT THE THE GRANTS I KNOW I VOTED PRESENT WHEN WE CAME TO VOTE ON THE GRANT LAST YEAR AND I GOT A LOT OF FLACK FOR IT BUT THE REASON WE I VOTED PRESENT WAS WE WE HAD SOME VERY REAL CONCERNS ABOUT HOW FROM THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE FOR THE CITY OF BOSTON ABOUT HOW GRANTS ARE FROM THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT OEM, HOW GRANTS ARE MANAGED AND THE REPORTING OF SOME RECIPIENTS. SO THAT IT'S A HUGE GRANT. IT WAS $13 MILLION WE I VOTED PRESENT BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS.  I'M HOPING THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE GRANT THIS YEAR COMING BECAUSE IT COMES BACK EVERY YEAR THAT THERE'S MUCH MORE TRANSPARENCY THE ISSUES YOU KNOW FEDERAL AS A FEDERAL FISCAL YEAR GOING BACK TO 2000 AND IT SOME SUB RECIPIENT MONITORING WAS INADEQUATE THERE WAS IN 2011 TO THE ACCURACY OF THE FEDERAL EQUIPMENT INVENTORY RECORDS WAS QUESTIONED IN 2013 TO 2018 INTERNAL CONTROL AND COMPLIANCE OVER SUB RECIPIENT MONITORING HAD A SIGNIFICANT DEFICIENCY.  SO YOU KNOW IT'S NOT THAT I DIDN'T WE DON'T WANT TO INVEST IN EQUIPMENT THAT'S HELPFUL. BUT AGAIN THE ISSUE THAT WAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER WAS ABOUT TRANSPARENCY AND HOW IF WE DON'T HAVE GOOD INFORMATION AND GOOD MONITORING AND TRANSPARENCY THEN WE DON'T KNOW WHAT OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT IS SPENDING THE MONEY ON. AND WITH REGARD TO THE THE SURVEILLANCE ORDINANCES REQUIRED THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE SOME SAY AND LET'S HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE EFFICACY OF THE EQUIPMENT. IS IT IS IT COMPLYING WITH YOU KNOW, IS IT IS IT IS IT COMPLYING WITH OUR COMMITMENT TO UPHOLD PEOPLE'S CIVIL RIGHTS? YOU KNOW, SO I THINK JUST TO HAVE DAYLIGHT IS IMPORTANT AND TRANSPARENT IS IMPORTANT AND ACCOUNTABILITY IS IMPORTANT. SO YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT JUST WITH REGARD TO THIS PARTICULAR FEDERAL GRANT. WE HAVE THE SAME ISSUES WITH OTHER OTHER DEPARTMENTS THAT RECEIVE FEDERAL FUNDS AS WELL LIKE WE NEED TO TIGHTEN UP OUR OUR OUR OUR LEVEL OF OF INTERNAL MONITORING AND SUB RECIPIENT MONITORING BECAUSE MONEY THAT WE'RE PASSING THROUGH MONEY TO OTHER POLICE DEPARTMENT, OTHER OTHER EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT GROUPS IN OTHER NEIGHBORING MUNICIPALITIES AND WE'VE NO IDEA WHAT THEY SPEND THE MONEY ON AND WE ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT WE SPEND OUR OWN MONEY ON. SO THIS IS THIS IS WHY WE HAD THIS HUGE GRANT $13 MILLION LAST YEAR. IT'LL BE COMING UP AGAIN. SO AS THE CHAIR OF THIS PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO LET'S ASK THE THE THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT TO GIVE US THAT INFORMATION IN A TIMELY WAY SO THAT WE CAN MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION AND AND AND VOTE ACCORDINGLY ON GOOD INFORMATION RATHER THAN HAVING THIS THE GAMES THAT WE PLAY ABOUT NOT HAVING ACCESS TO INFORMATION TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION WHEN IT COMES TO VOTING ON ON THE MONEY THAT WE USE TO BUY THIS EQUIPMENT THANK YOU THANK YOU COUNCILOR AND I AGREE WITH YOU AND I WILL COMMIT TO THAT AS AS CHAIR OF THIS COMMITTEE I DID SAY THIS EARLIER BUT FOR THE RECORD ALL WE HAVE WAS INVITED TO THIS HEARING AND YOU KNOW, DO I GOT COMMUNICATION FROM ACR THAT THEY WILL NOT BE PARTICIPATING IN THE MORNING'S HEARING BUT THAT THEY WILL BE HERE THIS AFTERNOON SO HOPEFULLY WE CAN ASK AT THREE AT 3 P.M. WE CAN ASK THOSE QUESTIONS AS THEY COME OUT IF IF THEY DECIDE TO SHOW UP WITH THAT.  I JUST WANT TO THANK AGAIN ALL OF OUR PANELISTS FOR THIS VERY LONG HEARING. I DO WANT TO LEAVE SPACE FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY I AM SEEING ON THE LIST HERE THAT I THINK EVERYONE WHO SIGNED UP FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY IS PART OF OUR PANEL. SO I THINK PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE CONFUSED THAT THIS IS A SIDE AND SEE BUT I DO WANT TO GIVE AN OPPORTUNITY THAT FOR ANYONE HERE WHO DOESN'T TEND OR DIDN'T TEND TO DO A PUBLIC TESTIMONY TO PLEASE COME DOWN RIGHT NOW IF NOT, I WILL PROCEED WITH JUST AGAIN THANKING ALL OF MIKE ALL THE PANELS PANELISTS THANKING MY COLLEAGUES WHO ASKED ORAL QUESTIONS AND YOU KNOW, JUST WANT TO THANK YOU ON THIS HEARING AND SEEING THAT NO ONE HAS COME DOWN FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY.  I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES, CENTRAL STAFF AND ALL OF THE VARIOUS OFFICE STAFF PRESENT AND THE PANELISTS WHO ARE JOINING US FOR THE NEXT HEARING AS WELL FOR YOUR DEDICATION TO THESE MATTERS. WE WILL NOW BEGIN THE NEXT HEARING AND 30 MINUTES AT 3 P.M. THIS YEAR IN DOCKET OUTNUMBER THE 0590 IS ADJOURNED. THANK YOU