e e if you wish to speak to any item on the agenda or during the public comment portion of the meeting please fill out a speaker card each person addressing the board shall have three minutes to complete his or her comments on each agenda item for which he or she has filled out a card the chair has the discretion to determine or alter the time limits on any agenda item the board of County Commissioners requests that speakers appearing under the public comment section of the agenda limit their comments or presentations to matters relating to County Business that are within the board's Control Authority and jurisdiction well good morning and welcome to the July 23rd County Commission meeting I'd like to start the meeting off with a invocation by Reverend Troy Countryman good morning it's uh it's an honor it's a privilege to to be back again with you I was here last April my family and I had just recently moved here from Indiana and uh yeah I'm the senior pastor at Faith Viera Lutheran Church and uh uh as I stand before you today something similar I said last year I stand before you yeah as in my vocation as a pastor uh but that's that's not the most important thing about who I am my calling or vocation I'm a a Christian a Christ follower but uh in order of importance and I I think my wife and children would appreciate this I'm a I'm a husband I'm a I'm a father uh and then somewhere in there I'm I'm a pastor but also like you all I'm a fellow citizen of bravard County and um Vieira it means faith in in Slovak and and and faith I think is honesty about dependence as a Christian it would I would say well it's dependence on god father Son and Holy Spirit uh but also uh life is not I don't think best lived as a solo sport or Endeavor and it's a a dependence on on a community and it's a blessing to be here with you and to pray for you so uh thank you for answering the call to public service not only to you who sit before you me but also to all of you who are here today uh as we're engaged in and blessed to be gathered together as Community let's pray almighty God your holy scriptures reveal that you are powerful just and good and they Proclaim that we are created in your holy image and sometimes we obviously see your goodness in the world in the beauty of your creation and other times it is veiled in mystery and yet you are at work in the world we're divided into Nations and states and localities and I pray As We Gather today that you would guide these public servants as they seek to lead us well here in Bard County pray for Frank and John Rita Jason Rob Tom and Morris as well as all those who are gathered here that the for the matters being presented and discussed that you would bring honesty and openness to this place Clarity and wisdom grant them Insight in the discussion and deliberation that follows help them as Leaders to be just as you are just and give them and all of us boldness and courage remind them not only of their accountability to their constituents uh but also ultimately to you but all of us as we're gathered together heavenly father that I pray that that their work that our work would would promote the common good for all and that as you've gathered us into this uh community in Bard County that we would be blessed to be a blessing I pray these things in the holy and precious name of Jesus amen amen thank you thank you sir uh stand for the pledge by commissioner led by commissioner P to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation indivisible with liy and Justice all thank you can I have a motion to approve the minutes of the May 21st 2024 regular meeting please there's a motion by commission Goodson seconded by commissioner toaya any discussion hearing no discussion all in favor signify by saying I I all opposed nay motion Carriage um do we have any resolutions Awards or presentations I don't believe so today okay the consent agenda I know that we have uh one of the people in the audience that wants to pull F7 are there any other items that um the commission would like to pull in regards to F7 for brief comment okay f17 all right let's go to F7 and um who wants to take the lead on this in Utility Services Ed you coming up brother thank you sir you're welcome good morning good morning um so item up seven is uh this is a will you pull that mic a little closer to your mouth please sure thank you how's that that's perfect perfect um so item F7 is a planning document that's a state requirement this came into law mid last year in the state law they require that the draft of this be submitted in February the final version in um August the intent of the law is or the planning document is for communities that have are within a b map that have point source or non-point source of greater than 20% nutrient loading to provide a planning document to identify how um over a 10e plus Spectrum how that could be addressed um associated with that they're looking for um dollar amounts of what that could take the state usually uses that number to figure out what future State appropriation and funding would be needed at a later um at a later year okay thank you Miss Sullivan you're up good morning Sandra Sullivan uh so this one quite surprised me uh good good morning so on one hand one of the things I've come in here for many years and advocated for is when we were sold to save our Lagoon tax we were sold that part of it would be used for awt upgrades so this is um in that direction uh I was surprised to see the soral funding uh on on multiple projects in here withth millions of dollars uh for uh obviously a vote that hasn't been taken today with regarding to the referendum so that's kind of interesting kind of like a foreshadowing of of what is going to happen my so um of of of interest to me in particular was the planned expansion of growth in Bard and uh for example I want to just use an example here uh up in North merid Island the federal lands and the state leased lands on the federal lands is is has the uh says proposed Wastewater service area okay and so what it looks to me the direction we're going is whereas the Indian River Lagoon was in the first 10 years a funding source for the St John's river water manag Management District for their obligations for mck drudging it seems now we're using it instead of addressing existing infrastructure uh issues uh that this will now be used to fund uh expansion uh uh for areas of new development and this is very concerning to me um again I want to point out this area right here which is north merid island which is uh the the whole thing is selected including the federal lands so what are we doing you know are we going to be using taxpayers money and then the other thing is one on the graphs um in here um well first of all this is North marid Island this is the hydrology study that you showed that it is a huge flood risk in a 10-year event this is Port St John I've come to this me these meetings for years calling out the development being put on Port St John and as you see in 2024 that yellow line right there is above the capacity of the plant the irresponsibility of the County Commission to speak of oh we care about the Lagoon meanwhile you're packing on development on a sewage plant that is in excess of its capability sewage plant used to cost about $50 million now it's $170 million you're begging to the federal government for money you're begging to the state and they're saying no you're responsible for this so now rather than addressing impact fees you want to stick it to the voters and I'll just say as far as North mer Island goes this is a lobbyist from North Meritt Island thank you rob for fighting for the Lagoon from a lobbyist tens of thousands of dollars wake up people to The Establishment funding candidates for we the money not We the People commissioner felner if you'd like to respond to that since your name was mentioned in the okay you have no comments that's great Mr commissioner Goodson yeah I is it true that if we have a development that's being proposed that you or someone in the county checks to see if a sewer plant can handle it before the permit is issued to develop a project absolutely that's a state requirement to go through that due diligence okay now NE next question if that be said the Lagoon tax money would it not be appropriate to use some to improve sewer plants or sewer lines or install stuff to get the sewer out of the lagon Lagoon it's one of the sources but the the projects identified on here commissioner are not necessarily have to be funded by sorl okay there there there's a variety of funding mechanisms to do that that's obviously one of them but the intent of these projects listed in here was not to put the full burden on sorl to accomplish this thank you thank you chair okay um commissioner toaya f17 you want to make a comment thank you Mr chair and I'm going to have a I hope this is folded back in but uh a lot of work went in went to the end this by the CRA so I just wanted to be brief there's some good news and bad news in these reports the bad news is many of these uh CRA are still wasting uh large amounts of funds on facade grants and entryway signs uh it'd be remiss not to point them out Diamond Square Babcock Street Melbourne downtown rockid in Titusville uh but treating them like uh Millennials I'll end with some good news and the good news is the Babcock Street CR will sunset 9924 uh the Bayfront CRA will sunset in May 2024 and uh or or Sunset it in May 2024 and the Satellite Beach are was dissolved by uh the city on 9:30 uh to put that in perspective this will be about $2 million in uh Tiff payments uh a reduction now don't get me wrong we're still spending millions of dollars and unfortunately we're still spending it on facade grants and Greenery and all that good nonsense but uh you know it's less waste than what there was in the past so uh just wanted to make light of of those cras thank thank you very much for your comments commissioner chairman yes sir I would like to compliment the commissioner for not mentioning Myra thank you very much all right is there a motion to approve the consent agenda so second motion by commissioner Tobias seconded by commissioner Goodson to approve the consent agenda all in favor signify by saying I all oppose nay the consent agenda passes all right let's go to um public comments do we have any public comments cards wow that's the first all right here comes Kathy that's on item G yes okay Senator Sullivan okay you can do that yeah I mean there's two two different public comments areas and she wants to go to you okay with that learning Lear okay I think you're the teacher all right H1 permission to participate and accept the US Department up wait a second I'm sorry uh I'm sorry Christina Fleming yeah I I apologize for that in the future we'll just do it as the agenda says good morning s and Madam I'm Christina Fleming retired firefighter of 25 years with the county you know my face I've been here so I just wanted to come up and say good morning and let you guys know again in 2008 the firefighters froze their pay we've been waiting for you guys to come back and help us still waiting we in 1998 we signed a referendum that said that our millage rate was supposed to be set at 0. 6431 set at it was not last year it was set at 0.515 this is funding that can be used our budget that we're working with for our negotiation sucks it sucks we are way behind we're like 20 to 30,000 underpaid and that's the mid people not the new people that's the mid people I'm just here to let you know that in our Inspection Department we have over 1,700 inspections that are overdue because they're underst staffed our Fleet is inundated with broken Vehicles whether they're just broken down or if we're wrecking them it's it's bad and they're understaffed also everybody's understaffed and that includes Ron and brid that's everybody in Bard County we need to find the funding we need to budget for more and that's just all I'm asking for you guys is to talk to our Chiefs talk to our director talk to the county manager maybe you guys can all really get together and increase that budget the sheriff is asking for more money too because he's underst staffed it's bad you guys it's bad and I just wanted to let you guys know I know we sit here and we talk to you guys constantly and we're saying the same things over and over again but sometimes you have to save them so that it gets in your brains and we really need to work we really need to work so just to let you know in the next three years 189 firefighters with less than four years has the potential to leave without owing the county anything we also have 79 firefighters with 23 years or more that can retire and leave you that's 55% of your fire department that is that can leave and probably will 55% so where does that leave the rest of us that are still working they're going to be working mandatory they're going to get tired they're going to get sloppy because it's not their fault because they're being overworked so what I want to say is do all fair Tales begin with Once Upon a Time no many of them begin with if I am elected I promise have a good day okay um let's go to H1 who's going to handle a permission to participate to accept the US Department of just Justice Grant commissioner I is anyone here on behalf of bcso this is a request by the sheriff's office um in order to participate in grant funding through the Department of Justice Edward bur Memorial Justice assistance grant this particular Grant award anticipated uh for the upcoming years is in the amount of $165,700 it allows law enforcement agencies particularly municipalities that are located remotely from the jail complex the ability to have those arrestes picked up by the Sheriff's Office and that doesn't take the law enforcement officers off the streets and their local communities while they make that drive up there okay commissioner toay you got a comment uh I'm just going to make a motion to approve unless that one of the two deputies here want to make comment on it I'll second a motion to approve by commissioner Tobias seconded by commissioner feltner any any discussion hearing no discussion all in favor signify by saying I I'll oppose nay motion carries we're going to get you a nice vehicle to take all those people up to Sharp so don't worry about it all right H2 final public hearing and approval of fiscal year 20242 annual action plan for Bard County Home investment partnership program Ian you're on thank you commissioner good morning this is our annual action plan as required by Hud the process started in May when we had our first public hearing and solicited comments for input into the creation of the plan plan was then put together put out for public comment for 30 days we received no public comment on it and as commissioner Steele said this is the final hearing and approval request is there any discussion by the board hearing no discussion is there a motion motion to approve is there a second the motion by commissioner Pritchett seconded by commissioner TWA any discussion hearing no discussion all in favor signify by saying I all oppose nay the motion carries all right petition to vacate Mark how are you feeling today you okay good sir thank you good uh good morning uh this is a petition of AK to public uh utility and drainage eement 1000 Royal Oak Court um the petitioner is requesting the vacate to allow for an existing pool to be enclosed with a screen we've received no objections make a motion to approve there's a motion to approve by commissioner felner is there a second second seconded by commissioner Goodson any discussion all in favor signify by saying I I all oppose nay the motion carries all right adoption of proposed fiscal year 2024 2025 Adora millages I suppose that will be Jill good morning Commissioners in this agenda item staff is requesting that the board set the fiscal year 2024 2025 proposed millage rate um and the attached the attachment provides the detail on the 24 taxing districts um on February 20th the board adopted resolutions declaring its intent to adopt a budget that does not constitute a tax increase and does not make a finding of critical needs and these proposed millage rates align with that board Direction all millage rates have been established in accordance with The Bard County Charter cap limitations and the aggregate millage rate represents a 4 .3% decrease from the current fiscal year so under this proposal we will not be advertising a tax increase thank you very much uh commissioner commissioner I keep on doing this all right uh s Sullivan good morning Sandra Sullivan so um I'm here today in support of the firefighters as regarding the mill rate uh to um uh to request that this is rejected um there are a couple issues um pertaining to the budget um so number one I I just want to point out that there as you're probably aware in 2021 you know uh Palm Bay was uh suing the the the county and this goes back to the uh mstu uh referendum um and so before I get into that actually let me just go back to the high point the high point is that you sat down to negotiations with the fire department and with the union and you came up with a uh wage comparable that was agreeable to everybody these are the counties that you agree with that we should be within that that mean that average and uh at the last negotiation s uh it was asked and said uh was was a budget to meet uh comparable because let's face it the paramedics are underpaid on mean $25,000 and so it was asked to the uh attorney that was the Pres uh did you budget any of this in your budget and the answer was no so in in that instance the county came to the table and not in good faith are presenting a budget that doesn't incorporate addressing any of the issues I also want to point out I've done some research over the last few days this is the budget from 19 uh sorry 2019 and what it shows is and and I've been looking into this that the EMS as a result of that lawsuit in 2004 2005 you ended up taking a referendum that was to pay for a countywide EMS very well documented and you flip that to fire which I don't even know if that's legal and then you're using general fund well you know on the uh uh attorney general's website uh there is a statement here in summary until unless legislatively or judicially determined otherwise I of the opinion that loving special assessments and Adoption of user fees or service charges are the exclusive methods of financing in other words therefore they're saying um using general advolum tax revenues whether it's General funder Etc is not legal and you know I'm just going to say I think you guys got lawsuits coming because what you're doing I don't think it's legal please reject the budget any uh discussion from the board do I hear a motion to approve motion to approve is there a second second motion to approve by commissioner Pritchett seconded by commissioner Tobi any more discussion hearing none all in favor signify with saying I I all oppose nay the motion carries H5 ordinance amending chapter 46 article 4 section 46-19 Bard county code of ordinances I suppose this will be you commissioner Morris Richardson I'll make you a commissioner today you just promoted me thank you I did no I don't know that that's a promotion well sir um this is an ordinance it was requested by The District 4 Commission office and I believe uh the commissioner explained at your last meeting where you adopted legislative intent that this was the result of the sunry golf course uh requesting some relief but it's applicable generally to golf courses what this would do is currently under your noise ordinance there's an exemption ion for landscape maintenance between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. provided that the equipment is reasonably operated and equipped with all noise reducing equipment in proper condition this would uh take Golf Course Landscape Maintenance it would extend the 7 a.m. to 8:00 P p.m. exemption to all hours of the clock to accommodate uh the operating hours of golf courses where they have to do that kind of Maintenance prior to uh tea time starting and things of that nature and uh commissioner felner may have more add thank you commissioner felner I think we covered this pretty well in the last meeting um happy to answer your questions and appreciate your support is there any discussion any more discussion on this item hearing note uh discussion do I hear a motion I'll make a motion a motion by commissioner felner is there a second second seconded by commissioner pritchet no more discussion all in favor signify by saying I I all oppose nay nay okay uh motion carries let's go to unfinished business commissioner steel may I just make one comment on that item please sir absolutely a volunteer from a local high high school West Shore Junior Senior High School working in my office this summer uh wrote that ordinance for the commissioner and uh did great work under the guidance of Chris Riley in my office her name's Elena kikki so I just wanted to thank her for her good work on that point of order here this is completely unfair that the uh County attorney is now pointing out my no vote was against a volunteer high schooler what the heck that is a terrible move it's part of the record now until forever oh my goodness uh is Helena here she could not be here today okay well make sure you thank her and uh because she's make sure we punish commissioner tobbi okay I don't know how we're going to make you mow the golf course you're in trouble now sir no all right let's go to unfinished business uh i1 resolution calling for a referendum on economic development ADV arm tax abatement Karen how are you doing great thank you good item i1 titled resolution calling for a referendum on the economic development adorm tax abatement program was initially brought before the board on July the 9th under item J2 and was tabled for additional discussion to this meeting thank you very much Mr Johnson please come up up and uh State your issue think he may have good morning my name is Neil Johnson uh I live in Melbourne Florida and um I have uh served the economic development commission for it's gosh over 25 years and have uh spent a lot of time with them on the avalor tax abatement program um first of all I want to thank you for the opportunity to get up here today and speak to you I know when we spoke on July 9th there were some questions that came up so I'd like to uh kind of address some of those um the the data that was brought up um at the prior meeting uh went back to 2018 and while I don't dispute the data that was presented I think there needs to be some context in that data um what it doesn't reflect is the fact that shortly after that 2018 year we went into a pandemic and during that pandemic all activity slowed down or came to a stop relocation activity slowed down companies that may have been approv for an AV during that period of time prior to the pandemic probably were not able to do what they had anticipated they were going to do so I think we need some context in that data but not disputing if the data is accurate because it is um so I just wanted to bring that out um also and I think there were some slides that presented I don't know if they're going to go up there but I think you all have them uh we sent each one of the Commissioners last week copy of a presentation that we've been doing out in the community and we'll continue to do should this go on the ballot uh as our educational piece to um the uh the voters but I think it points out um this is not my slide this is um yeah it's it's been on this screen since I walked in uh we'll talk about this one in a minute um can we go to the other slides if we have them okay so there you go thank you we uh commission with uh Florida Institute of Technology under the direction of Dr Abram Walton some of his graduate students did a research study for us on the avalor tax abatement program because we felt like we knew that it was successful but we really wanted to get some independent research and some data that that supported or did not support that position there was no preconceived idea when they went into it what you're seeing up here is from 2005 through 2023 and I think it's important to note that these are just companies that received an ad valorum tax abatement so if a company came here and did not receive an abatement um because they didn't apply for it or for whatever reason it is not included any of the numbers that are on these slides but you can see the total number of jobs during that period of time um and it's important to to talk about the 2005 and shortly thereafter was a was a very difficult time in our community and I think the fact that we had something that encouraged people to come here was was helpful in mitigate $1.4 million in taxes that were abated again just for companies that use the abatement but those companies also paid 83.8 million in total taxes so I believe we have a good return on the investment and then you look at the total wage is 4.43 billion and then it breaks down direct indirect and induced can we go to the next slide please Space Coast TV can you go to the next slide please thank you thank you um this one just shows that for every dollar that was abated um we received four $482 in taxes that were actually paid if you can go to the next slide and if you look at the capital investment for every dollar of capital investment M $33.3 uh in inab award incent incentive awarded $33.30 in capital investment I think it's important to point out that the numbers that you see about taxes that were Abad and taxes were paid actually come from tax bills from the public record within Bard County um so my reason for being here today is in my opinion I believe that the voters should be the ones that decide on whether we continue this or not I think it's an important tool for us to have in our tool belt we just saw recently where SpaceX had a had an issue fortunately it was a California issue but they were shut down for a period of time and I think it just shows that anything can happen and when it does we need to be prepared to try to continue to grow our economy with every tool available and I believe the voters should have the opportunity to decide that thank you thank you commissioner toaya thank you Mr chair and I want to thank Mr Johnson for calling up and and sending over the the study which we'll get to and I I critically went through this um as much as I could given what was presented um and I had a whole list of questions but I'm just going to boil this down to two because In fairness you know there were just three slides put up there and and you pointed out on page 14 of the Walton report there's a calculation of 4523 jobs I tried to replicate that number and just just did that with all of the applications that were approved the jobs promised if you add them up so my question is as you know you don't dispute that in the last six years there's literally been hundreds of jobs that were promised yet not delivered so my question is did you subtract and I know the answer to this did you subtract the jobs that were not delivered from that 4523 it is my understanding uh I have Edgar here from the EDC in case there's a question I'm not 100% sure on but may he come forward Mr chair sure absolutely good morning Mr chair Edgar Campa Al Fox with the economic development commission the numbers that we're including in that study just includes the applications from the uh companies that came forward and uh so Edgar I'm sorry it was yes no question again as as as Mr Johnson uh said the the data that was presented by me yesterday or yesterday last meeting was correct I said there were hundreds of jobs that were promp proed and not delivered did those jobs that didn't materialize for one reason or another were they subtracted from this number the number are for active applications in the program if they were kicked out of the program they're not included okay so I'm thinking that your answer is no again if a pro if a company has not delivered and kicked out of the program they have uh they're not included in that total so to think about uh the application you have a company coming forward and uh they promise a specific number of jobs though if they don't deliver in their times uh they're kicked out of the program so okay commissioner TOA yeah we had I had staff added them up and the the they added up to that exact number 4523 okay so the answer is yes promised they were promised not delivered those were promised so so again that case scenario that's what it was they were not delivered uh so SEC second of all and this is this is more important so this takes everything off the table uh because I had a list of whole questions and and I'm glad you mentioned it you said that that was an independent report is that what you said yes sir you said okay so my question is the Walton report uh was it a peer-reviewed study um I I would have to ask Dr Walton that question but my understanding is that they did have subject matter experts that were consulted in the uh in reviewed is AC basis I I I cannot answer if it was peer reviewed or not but I can certainly get that answer for you sir okay uh and I'm going to pass this out I'll give you a copy here because I thought you might use this um I I pulled up Abram Walton here i' like to if you don't mind here here's his bio so pass this down is this the same uh Abram Walton professor at the bis College of Business that you were refer referring to that provided this study uh he oversaw it his students did the research okay great so this is from his this is and man I'm old I should have got my glasses here um remember it's independent I think I highlighted there he is the founding chairman of the Space Coast Economic Development commission why was that never disclosed no no no keep reading that's not what it says of the commission Innovation inovation Council so we created a council and he was he was asked to chair that Council so he was the founding he was not the founder of the economic development commission that was misleading okay because if you read the whole thing he found so let me say again I apologize is the founding chairman of the Space Coast Economic Development commission uh Innovation Council right so he sits on a board that's under the EDC is that what you're saying he chairs a council under the great that as and my question is why wasn't that disclosed did you did you is you said it was independent yet the guy sits on the EDC that's disgusting either you think we're idiots uh or you didn't do your research the same way you didn't deduct uh drop things off I'm absolutely um disgusted that that uh that that was not disclosed to the board thankfully we looked up and found out that this guy is clearly not independent neither is his research and uh this is this may work at a chamber of commerce breakfast over coffee but for independent intelligent thinkers up here it's it's this is I I the next question is how much was he paid to do this nothing well you got your money's worth um I you know no don't do that NE I'm not I won't okay um thank you for your comments thank you discussion from the board I I do have discussion um go ahead should I go sit down no you stay just sit right there because I'm certain that you're going to get more questions no no I'm I'm I'm done with that I think that I I just want to throw out uh a couple points here as to why we should go in a different direction uh number one lack of follow through I I got a slides show up here that that has been uh verified lack of follow through uh since 2018 this board has rescinded 10 previously abated uh abatements due to failure by the businesses to meet the program requirements I've got lists of all that if anyone's interested three business voluntarily withdrew from the program during the same time span uh including two that were approved and are still act uh uh active that equates to an 85% failure rate uh John Thomas who was up here uh previously was clear that it was 85% but somehow said that an 85% rate was indicative of success I don't know how 85% saure failure is indicative of a success point two um here they're going to come here anyway uh the last three tax abatement requests to come to the board were denied and the project still came to Bard County number one Rogue Valley they asked for $490,500 and uh decided to come here this is that L3 Harris uh immediately after laid off 5% of it 7,000 of set employees this is roughly 350 jobs um while rep poting profits of $1.2 billion again um that may be a a business decision uh but nonetheless there were layoffs that occurred after uh so uh two is they're going to come here anyway the the evidence is pretty darn clear number three uh Promise Jobs and this is where that study says every job promised was included yet most of them don't uh materialize this abatement uh sorry the abatements which were approved by the board since 2018 were expected to bring 252 jobs um those that were approved within the last six years and are still active uh which met their promise uh is a total of 42 jobs that's ussi Global and Roswell Marine so we've got a total of 2121 42 jobs let me talk about those jobs real quickly I like jobs but uh according to the edc's program overview the average medium County wage is $ 61,7 184 that's the average six in Bard County 617 let's go to ussi the jobs that they average have promised was 4 3,190 below the average uh but don't worry Roswell Marine brought that up oh wait they didn't uh they were at $ 53,723 so uh I'm going to give you some math that is as crazy as the math that was just presented to us uh and that's that up there there were 252 jobs promised uh there are 42 jobs that are currently active uh during that same six years there were 698 jobs that we had to take back because they weren't meeting uh their uh their uh desired goals in other words I would argue that the EDC has helped create or this program has helped create negative 44 jobs uh again Voodoo math but not as crazy as the math of creating four 5,000 and creating billions of dollars it's it's it's it's a joke uh number four cost of the program so what was not mentioned in here is the cost this program is not fee there administrative costs uh that include funding to the EDC and revenues lost to abatements over the same six-year period the county paid 8.4 million let me say that again $8.4 million to the EDC and lost $6.4 million in Revenue not to mention the considerable staff time that went into this uh two points were brought up by uh fellow Commissioners so I wanted to uh uh at least acknowledge those and bring those up here is the um info of how the jobs are spread across the various districts uh you can see that um you know some it's indicative of what are industrial areas and all that good nonsense but that's that's that's the result of that and then uh commissioner Goodson brought up uh what I didn't see and I thought it was a very good uh point was regarding what the size of these organizations that received the abatements I thought that was kind of interesting and it was actually uh very very good um if you look at this the bulk of the jobs offered uh provided are not to small businesses uh they're to actually very very large businesses uh in fact you see most of the jobs offered are to companies that have at least 100 employees in an equal amount were offered to companies that have 500 uh employees in fact if you take the average abatement that was provided it was to a company that had more than 36,000 employees so the average abatement goes to a company that has 36,00 th000 employees these are not these are not let me repeat again small businesses um so for all these uh reasons and I'm sure many more that I just didn't get uh uh time to look at and I'll go over them again uh 85% failure rate and to meet the promised jobs 100% of the of the last three came to Bard seeking uh abatements despite not receiving one from Bard County at best the last six years of approval and active abatements have prom have promised and re receiv received only 42 jobs 10 times that amount have been rescinded and there is a cost to taxpayers for each one of these jobs I did not do the math uh because I didn't want to see it but when you divide that uh whatever 8 plus million divided by the 42 jobs we're paying hundreds of thousands of dollars uh per job you know as a Les Fair Republican the last thing I want uh elected officials to do is make uh business decisions of choosing winners and losers I think that's best left up to the market I don't think we should participate in this scheme and uh um I have a motion here uh but I certainly want to hear what other uh Commissioners have to say before I make said motion as you I appreciate your Indulgence here as you can probably see I'm pretty passionate on this uh any other comments commissioner pret would you take the floor chair please um commissioner Goodson would you like to speak speak before commissioner pret yes okay go ahead sir if she doesn't mind no she is going to take the chair and I was going to speak after that but go ahead um now are we setting up is it fair that we set up here and make decisions for the voters are we that smart or should the voters have the right to vote for this that would be my only comment you know I understand commissioner tobias's comments and there are extremely sad and gut-wrenching but uh how long can commissioner tobiah how long is the EDC this is a been on the ballot 10 years ago correct yeah Mr chair yes sir go yes and there was one 10 years previous to that and and you know I on on that on that um and and I was going to go over this data I mean it goes back 10 years so what I did is looked at well if you're going to go back 10 years I'm going to go back even further and I looked at our largest uh employers out there in the in and and those would be uh Health First Harris and northr Grumman health first with over uh 9500 uh employees one being that of my brother uh no abatements were given to Hell first when they uh or we go back even further remember the argument of the EDC is you need to look back further so I did uh Harris Corporation 7200 jobs they built their headquarters in Melbourne 1978 no abatements uh North or Grumman 4,700 employees uh Grumman established in Bard in the 6s merged with nor Norr in 1994 no abatements at the time so companies came here long before companies are coming here now I know this sounds all good but the reality of the situation it's it's it's it's bad for taxpayers in my opinion okay chair yes sir go ahead can I ask you gentlemen to comment on the small the Mr Tobias comment about no small businesses got abatements or was that your comment no my my comment was the average one that received it has 36,7 38 employees that would not be small I don't think I would not consider that a small can you comment on it sir well I think you need some context and I I agree that is not small I I think anybody that would say that would we'd have to have them tested for something um we we have a set of guidelines that are statutory that we have to go by when we review the these tax abatements the minimum number of jobs created is 10 and based on our research about 15% of the companies that received an abatement were for that that number of jobs and then it goes up from there about 65% were 50 jobs or less now these are jobs promised so it could have been the larger companies but I think what we fail to recognize is that when a large company does come in and again our guidelines are pretty pretty strict the the average wage that you mentioned that's set by the state and that's this year's average average wage that wasn't the average wage in 2018 but when when a company relocates here it creates other jobs and those jobs are generally small businesses vendors suppliers and then the the induced jobs we talked about the restaurants the so we believe that when we do incent a company to come here and they do it does filter down to small business now we're always open to more suggestions on how to do that better uh but um that's the answer to that question sir okay M Mr chair one more please go ahead can you tell me then in your organization if I wanted to join what do you charge small businesses to join or do you even allow them because at one time you cut that you rais the fee so high that a guy who runs a lawn service might want to be in it and has two employees but you are I would assume takes too much time to take care of a small business so you go after the big fish but tell me what is the rates that you charge to be a member of EDC you don't know I don't think either one of us have that information at the top of our head okay sorry but I think you would probably be right a two person Lawn Service probably would not but but if you rais if he was a member and you raised the rate here and he couldn't afford it because it took too much time to take care of him and you only wanted the B the big corporations I can I don't agree with that but I I hear you and I appreciate the input and we'll take that under consideration I could could I make a comment on that are is the question do they have uh a number of small businesses that make up the EDC I don't think so not depends on how you qualify small I I mean how many how many how many businesses do you have that have under 15 employees you know you've been there a long you know I I would say yes I mean uh uh we have um Artemis it as a member I would say that they are based on number of employees considered a a small business I think you told me we have a painting company that's how many employees do you have Neil I have none I have zero employees um and uh but you know I work for US Bank so you know um that's kind of a but okay you finished commissioner pritet would you take the chair please you let me speak before you do though you want to speak go ahead yes ma'am please absolutely this has um always been a hot if one of y'all want to come up Edgar Mr Johnson it be great this is always a Hot Topic when we're talking about Economic Development and um you already said what you did for your occupation you work at a bank sir um I work for US Bank I do mortgages yes ma'am okay do you get any money for um serving on the EDC board no ma'am okay um so you know I'm I'm trying to weigh all this and and think through um I don't think um the whole time that I've ever been working in government I've ever voted against any Economic Development incentives or any projects that we've done to try to further um the economy and the community or or increase population or keep our grandchildren from moving up north during crisis thank you for that yes sir thank you um so this is always a heated topic and um thank you for withstanding it commissioner toaya does a great job for um drilling through it he always brings good data um but you're um you're you're doing a good job on this thank you sir so um thank you when I'm I'm kicking through these ideas and and I've I've lived here a long time I'm I'm the old girl well I guess I'm not the old girl on the commission anymore but um we've been through a lot of things in the community and I know a lot of times some of these incentives have really helped um save the community as far as big businesses bringing in thousands of employees I actually think that's a good thing because it brings the economy back up and people spend in the small shops and stores so I think that's probably a a good thing when that item came up so and and also when you bring in new businesses at industry we don't pass the same dollar around the community we start bringing dollars in from other parts of the country and um so I I've got to say you know and all this stuff that's coming up right now the uh political environment I am not enjoying at all I you you kind of find out where people land at this moment by how they respond to things but I'm I am going to support this today and I'm going to support it because it it is going to go on the ballot and I'm going to tell you my primary reason for support is because I know Linda weatherman is still very involved in this and I trust her I've watched her for years and she works very very hard for this community and um this is going to win because of her heart I don't know where you're going to be in the next four 10 years when you try to do this again because I I imagine me and Linda are going to be long gone by then from being in government I hope I am too oh so um that's that's just what I I wanted to say today but um commissioner Taya brought up some good points and so I think it's up to everybody who's going to be involved in determining where these dollars go to make sure they're really paying attention so that we do not waste $1 of people's funds when that when they're investing it and trusting you to make decisions over their money yes ma'am you have the chair commission P thank you uh I'm going to speak then Sandra did you put a card out you you want to talk after that okay well thank you very much uh this is a big issue to me and um I cannot dispute anything commissioner Tobias said he's absolutely correct and and and I applaud him for the research that he''s done and I believe it here's my problem and it's very simple how many people were around during the Challenger explosion lots of people that were here and what happened to us after the Challenger explosion was devastating companies left people left the brain pool shrank and as a result of that we had Riverfront houses being sold for $100,000 and we were in a depression here where the NASA the shuttle program went away and it became very very difficult for us just last week something happened that could have turned around the economy when President former president Trump potentially got assassinated very very difficult times that we're in and I'm going to assure you that there's going to be more of those and Bard County needs to be prepared for that so two things that I want to address real quickly and and that is is that commissioner Goodson with his small company thing is a very interesting thing and it's it's a needed thing but you can apply for tax and batment if you if you're going to bring 10 employees in so it's not because we're not going to try to help small businesses it's because they really aren't applying or maybe not know about the business or know about the tax payment program so that's up to them now there is a argument that's been true lately and that's because right now we're in the most robust time that we've ever been at we are booming we have thousands of jobs at the Space Center we have thousands of jobs all over the aerospace companies are absolutely kicking butt and we are solid so people are coming here because everything's good the insurance policy that I want for Bard County and for the people of this county is what happens when things turn around and go bad and I will guarantee you if we don't have an incentive program these companies will go to the states that have the incentive program and we will not be in a good position so as much as I understand Comm tobias's logic which is excellent and I think what's happening is is that we're having uh some people lose participate in a program that that has not been working correctly so it hasn't been extremely successful lately but over the years it's happened pretty well so I'm asking you to let the people decide on this not the board of County Commissioners here I'm asking every anybody that's on this board today to let this go to a referendum and and go from there so uh that's all I have uh Sandra solivan you have comments commissioner toay would you like to speak again after s yeah absolutely I'd like to speak too but absolutely sir no problem Sandra Sullivan so first of all s and fear we're in robust times it we can bring this forward when the economy change should it change is not needed now right now your house is falling down right now the last time the last meeting that this came up we had a room full of yellow shirts filled the room standing room only and you can't pay your firefighters a fair wage but you want to give abatements to the rich companies this stinks this feels like the hashtag we the money referendum it's a a batement for special interests it's time to take care of your house it's time to take care of your falling down roof your roads 80 U sorry 800 million doll deficit on capacity needs that you have no way to fund at this time how about sewage plants how about Port St John $170 million begging to the federal government and the state with trips lobbying trips up to Washington DC take care of your house now's not the time to give special interests tax breaks when you can't meet your commitments to Public Safety shameful and I just want to say you know here we have a chair that is championing this who sat on the EDC as I remember who is a lobbyist and I question whether this whether he should recuse himself thank you tobia as usual for doing the Deep dive uh I've been here for many meetings where these abatements have been rescinded because of the uh failure of this and then I just want to say that um this this as I see it like the lagon plan has not been legislatively advertised so the agenda item for the lagon one is advertised the other thing the last thing I want to say is whether this requires a super majority vote or simple majority vote and I'm kind of curious how that's going to go today because in 2022 when we were talking about a potential referendum coming forward the attorney at that time said it needed a super majority vote and so I'm kind of curious whether how that's going to get handled today um and there was some uh indications that uh at the time that maybe that uh attorney was uh was replaced because didn't do the will of the um Commission in my opinion so let's put Public Safety First let's take care of our household needs in the county let's take care of our firefighters let's take care of our roads and let's take care of our infrastructure thank you uh Morris this does not require a majority vote does it have four four votes does it not no this is this just requires a simple majority vote of the board of County Commissioners to place it before the voters okay thank you so much I believe commissioner toay had his light on first and then commissioner Goodson wanted to speak commissioner toaya thank you and I'm I I think I see where things are going I had actual I I looked up some actual research studies one's done by academic Institute uh ones in which they were not paid nor sit on boards uh ones in which were peer-reviewed and and the quotes are pretty damning as far as the successful nature of that but I see I see where we're going I understand it that there is I've heard from at least two Folks up here that and there's nothing wrong with it that this should go to the voters um my staff off often challenges me and they did this time uh how can you support this uh is there way that you could support I'm so I'm I'm going to throw this out to here if we're going to give it to the voters I believe we should give as much information as possible to the voters so they can make an informed decision now um I don't want them to listen to me go on and all that good nonsense uh and there are certain parameters about how the ballot language must be crafted um number of words and leading and all that good nonsense so I consulted with Morris and um I just have a little addition to because I think the motion would probably include the exact same language that was there before that language is shall the board of County commissioners of Bard County Florida continue to be authorized to Grant pursuant to section three article seven of the State Constitution property tax exemptions to new businesses and expansion of existing businesses that are expected to create new full-time jobs in the county so I have an addition to that that provides more information to the voters so we get a better response um it is accurate um by not only what I have indicated up here but what the EDC has indicated so I just let me tell you what uh the the addition here uh despite that during the 5year period between July 9th 2019 and July 9th 2024 more tax exemptions failed to meet program criteria and were rescinded then succeeded that is factually accurate that meets the 75 uh if if if you know the EDC would like or someone from this tax abatement task force would like to argue that I'd like to hear but that is factually correct I think that and meets the criteria I think we should actually give the voters as much information as possible this is more information so they can make an informed decision with this I I I it's it's it's the uh you know Tobi a rule here if if an amendment is added then I'm forced to vote for it so uh I would I would throw that out there uh and see where see where that sticks if you want to argue you there's two ways to argue this number one um it's bad information which it's not or number two I'd rather voters not get this information because I want a yes so it's one of one of one of those two commissioner Goodson you have the floor thank you you know what I found interesting chairman you commented on about a bad time when all the big companies left but when everybody left here during the bad times who stayed the small businessman he stayed he survived he paid his taxes you know he paid the county and to come down here and fight John to buy to ask for two more jobs you're out of your mind I wouldn't come down here you commented that small businesses should come down here to get an inv batement didn't you no I I said small businesses could apply for an abatement okay not come down here they can apply for an abatement okay if you apply for an abatement if you know anything about it and I respect to commissioner toaya but most small businesses would not never do that they don't have they don't how they don't have time I do agree if you're going to give it to the public and that's why I will vote to give it to the public let them decide then if you come back and approve it 63% you made the decision you that's the way it should be in my opinion like it or not and you should give them as much information to make a good decision as they can okay is there any more discussion from the board is there a motion oh did you want to say something else yeah absolutely go ahead please um quick question I I read the ballot language and it makes sense to me but it would would it be better information for the public if we put a minimum amount of jobs that it would be creating so maybe that so like if you're saying 10 or more jobs maybe we should put in there expect it to create at least 10 more new jobs I don't know I'm just I I I mean that is the requirement so I I don't think it would be um uh there would be any reason that you couldn't put that in there the ballot language that that we used is is pretty much exactly what we've used um there was a comment made earlier how long has this been going on this first was voted on by the voters in 1994 I just want to be clear how long we've actually had the abatement but um um the ballot language as it sits right now is exactly what we've used before and has been approved I think the county attorney's reviewed it is that correct I have uh in fact Commissioners the ballot language is prescribed by Statute the statute States the ballot language must be in substantially this form and the form it provides is virtually identical to the one that's proposed in the resolution before you the only thing added to the resolution currently are the words continue to be just to indicate that this is an existing program and not a new program uh commissioner T's office did contact me about his proposed amendment I think it meets certain statutory criteria such as it can't be misleading uh it's got to be within the 75 words I did let them know there's not a lot of guidance in case law or attorney general opinions on substantially the form whether his proposal deviates too much or whether commissioner suggestion would deviate Too Much from the statutory form is a is a difficult call to make although I would say that that neither of them seem to significantly deviate so much that they should invalidate the ballot form but but again it is a form that's prescribed by Statute that's what was followed in crafting this referendum language thank you sir I so my my thought on this is and and um of course of a small business is getting off and there's a way to help them get through certain hurdles but but you know I back at that time when the economy went South and everybody moved if it wasn't for large businesses coming in we would still be suffering economically um I work at a church and if there's no population there's no ability to help people because people aren't able to bring funds in to to help the community so that's just a small aspect of of something that we're in I teach at the college students went way down in population so it it's just a good thing to have a good viable economy going and also to the larger the population gets the more um a ability for the government to have fees to pay the firefighters and the sheriff and and all these things that we need is extra resources so it's just it's just good for the community to have new businesses come in but again I don't know how you guys want to um do the ballot but I think this is really going to come down to the um people that put these incentives together and the County Commission to be sure that we are doing great evaluations on these to make sure that you are always on top of the clawbacks on these items as well so thank you sir okay uh hearing no more discussion is there a motion I'll make Mr chair go ahead sir I'll make a motion uh to approve it with the language that uh I discussed and our County attorney said uh um while there was little case law there was nothing that he saw that prevented that um I'll read it again the board of County commissioners of Bard County Florida continue to be author uh continue to authoriz be authorized to Grant pursuant to section 3 article 7 of state constitution property tax exemptions to new businesses and expansion of existing businesses that are expected to create new full-time jobs in the county despite that during the 5-year period between July 9th 2019 and July uh 9th 2024 more tax exemptions failed to meet program criteria and were rescinded than succeeded so that would uh be the motion can can I ask a question on your motion um after this uh leaves here if it passes today that does that have to go to a a judge panel or something yeah yeah this referendum language no I guess the question of whether or not it meets the statutory requirement that's that's not something that uh uh any requires any kind of judicial review not unless there's challenge okay U okay is there a second to the yes sir you know uh I think by putting your Amendment on commissioner to you're kind of tainting the water or you know coloring the water making them look bad and I understand I agree with everything you said today but you know you got to remember that if the public approves this it still comes back to the board we can deny the abatement at that time or we can res uh totally kill it you know so it's not like this is going to make the EDC have any better hole than they've had on us the total time in my opinion commission yeah I I I don't mean to Tain it these are these are facts I mean there and these are facts that are not disputed by staff these are facts that are not disputed by the very people that want to put that on the argument up here is that let the voters decide if we're going to do that we should provide them with as much information whether good or bad so they can make an informed decision that's all I'm asking that is all yeah I I agree that doesn't sound good but neither does this program in all honesty I can go over the research here again that not one peer-reviewed study I found said that this was any good from uh a list of reputable institutions about just how terrible these prr programs are but all this language is is factually accurate it meets the 75 uh word criteria and that's that's that's all I'm asking and and heck I made the motion so I'll be voting for it if if that's the case Okay Neil unfortunately I can't allow you to speak anymore we're under discussion regards is there a second to commissioner tobias's motion hearing no second the motion is not going to go forward do I have another motion sir I'll make a motion to put the issue before the voters um and I'm going to reserve the right to vote against future abatements that I don't think and you know that I've said that many times been upfront about that so I'll go ahead and make a motion to let the voters decide this is there a second I'll second motion by commissioner feltner seconded by commissioner Goodson is there discussion hearing no discussion all in favor signify by saying I I all opposed say nay motion carries 4 to one thank you very much I thought it was that's normally 3-2 but listen I do want to thank commissioner toaya for all his research and Bethany and and staff you guys are just really really good we appreciate all your work all right so we have uh I don't think we have let let's let's take a f minute break if we could please he oh I'm GNA watch you every meeting too it be funs all right go there you can come with us you can come with us well good I'm glad well good okay let us know when you're ready so we are on I2 I believe resolution calling for referendum election regarding a non-alarm special assessment for road paving in canaval grov Mr chair if I may uh on April 24 at your regular meeting you directed that I prepare a resolution calling for a local referendum election to determine if a non-ad valorum special assessment should be levied to fund the paving of certain itemized County maintained roads and Canaveral Groves uh the board also directed staff to estimate the cost of the road paving project and evaluate Financial options and approximate the amount of the assessment on the benefited properties um Keith Alber from the district one Commission office did a lot of good and hard work on this and our staff sharpened their pencils and came up with the best estimate possible for what would be a long-term project to pave those unfinished roads based on the currently available preliminary cost estimates and assuming 20-year financing at the rate of 4% which was a number arrived at by our budget director Jill Hayes and our financial adviser the annual per parcel assessment if ultimately the board adopts this and if it was a portion that way is projected to be approximately $1,500 per partiel per year over 20 years that math works out to $30,000 over the 20-year period that is the best and lowest estimate we could get for this very extensive project to pave all those unpaved roads that uh that were listed uh ultimately if we put this to the voters and you have in your both your Agenda Report in the resolution the language that would appear on the ballot uh if they approve it it would still have to come back to this board for compliance with the statutory requirements and ordinance requirements to adopt an non- adorm special assessment so it appears on the tax bill this doesn't tie the hands of a future board even if the voters approve it the board will still have discretion in both whether it's adopted and how to apportion it uh this is just a projection of what it might look like if you get that voter approval and if future board uh and it would have to the cycle would start next year all the steps that need to be done to comply with the statutory process and I'm happy to answer any legal questions I see Keith's over there and he can probably answer a lot of questions about which roads and how they were selected and uh and I'm sure commissioner P can as well thank you Keith do you have any comments yeah no problem no comments do you have any comments no and I probably should have said sir this this is just going going to go to those voters who are both going to directly benefit from the project and be directly affected the ones who are going to pay for it nobody who's ultimate who doesn't reside in that area that's going to be benefited is going to have a say in this election and Keith has worked with the supervisor of elections to provide that sub area within Precinct 102 that would be impacted by this which is I right thank you okay thank you s Sullivan is that what you wanted okay thought we were put her card all the time yeah sandre won't let us forget her card trust me good morning yeah I keep waving mine just to make sure it's not missed thank you good morning so this is from the agenda packet and first of all this says the referendum area right here the pink are the unpaved roads here you see there's one over here called assage which I want to pay attention to this referendum area per this map shows both paay and unpaved roads now um I will make a point that this is an increase in taxation uh this is the property appraisers they already pay a Road and Bridge mstu that's supposed to gradually over years you you do projects over time so let's look at the last commission meeting okay there was money already from Tiff allocated for Paving and design and whatnot for some of these roads and it was given back to general fund which kind of is a question mark why so then we get to a meeting from May 23rd uh which has to do with a development called the bright what uh the district one commissioner refers to is the bright line development uh which is putting a road through this community Through assage uh and the other road to um uh to Grom and then we have a legal document a stipulated court order from a lawsuit from 2007 that says for Assange and Angelica or a different route the county gets it tode and um The Entity agrees to pay all of the County's reasonable costs in acquiring lands or interests and the cost of constructing a public road access over the land and right away so they're Etc they're responsible for the costs so essentially my question here is is this being done since since the the road area is going Assange is one of them is this is this being done to basically supplement in some way the developer has the developer Ben Ben uh incurred or charged for any of the costs with this study that was done for putting in this or the cost of putting in this this right away or the expansion of a s and and I on these costs and I'm just wondering if that's budgeted in and of course there's going to be records requests but the bottom line I just want to say is you know it's election time and um you know district one is running for tax collector and said winning an election shouldn't be a lifetime appointment we're all tired of paying higher taxes okay hold on hold hold on please just for a second s you'll have your time to comment on what her I I understand campaigning I'm not campaigning no she's not running for anything I'm not running for anything hold on stop both of you please it's my time you just used up my time you interrupt people when they're on public comment excuse me sandre when you break the rules of the okay well you know what I don't know why you have to speak on every issue okay so do this called We the People nobody obviously nobody up here understands anything and you're the brilliant expert on everything aren't you thank you so much for your speeches now you mentioned commissioner in your comments commissioner pritchet please um County attorney I know that our public speaker decorum that there is some items and so when I said point of order it was just no sir it's just with it of of stopping things that are getting us off track of what we do you're you're correct uh that that kind of election heing or campaign speech would fall within the Ambit of the rule the board recently adopted uh some of the specifics of it if I may comment uh your office and you commissioner worked very hard to be transparent on this item I will say that that uh in several places in the agenda packet uh the roads that are going to be impacted and where the voters would be asked to vote on this issue and who would ultimately pay for it are clearly identified neither Osage nor Angelica are identified uh the map is clear that that is the geographic area in which voters will be asked to vote on this but not every voter in that geographic area will be asked to vote nor to pay uh the streets again are very specifically itemized and listed and it's going to be a a sub Precinct within that area that's going to have to be address based uh that again your office has worked together with supervisor of elections to to put that together uh so I just want to correct those statements this has absolutely nothing to do with oage Angelica uh or Paving of those roads they are not on the list Maris let me just make sure that I understand because I don't I don't want to do anything that's incorrect When U commissioner pritchet called for a point of order should I have stopped immediately in regards to that issue or or what should the chair have done I apologize for asking the question but in the future I don't certainly don't want to do anything that's correct well as with many things uh involving enforcement of our rules that's it within the discretion of the chair I serve but when another commissioner calls for a point of order and ask it's up to the chair then to decide whether there's a rule violation you can always ask me uh if you'd like input on it as well yeah well I I thought it was appropriate for the commissioner to be able to speak since Miss Sullivan was casting dispersions in regards to her campaign I think you addressed it appropriately Mr chair thank you so much may I I'll address absolutely thank you um typically we we try not to respond to those things I I don't unless it starts causing confusion to my community and then I I really want to make sure things get cleared up little history on this North bard district one we have more than half of the unpaved roads in the whole County and what happened there's a lot of rural area and people move in there okay all of you that live in a neighborhood you don't have to answer this because but when you move in and your roads are paved you've paid for those roads when you bought your houses the developer puts them in the cost of the houses and everybody's paid for their neighborhoods we have big areas in North Bard Mims area scotsmore Canaveral Grove some in Port St John and they moved onto dirt roads and nobody has paid the cost to pave those roads so we can't have all the taxpayers that have already paid for their own pave roads pay for roads now that are dirt roads and so we've had people that have been living in these areas for many many years and they would like to have their roads paved and we have tried forever to find some kind of funds to help alleviate this problem because the county also has to maintain these roads and it's a lot of work we weekly and monthly trying to keep these dirt roads drivable so what we did was come up with maybe a pilot program and this was a good area because when you start Paving roads you have to consider the drainage and the ditches there's so much cost that goes into it with the survey in so this area had less problems with deep ditches you know mems is going to be very expensive and Scots marks they going to have put pipes in for drainage and it's Nero so this was a good pilot program so we got in our office and we we tried to establish a small area where we can find some residents that have greatly needed to have their roads paved they really want them they've tried the msbu and it's hard to get the petitions done and get the cost so we thought we would try this now the people that vote on this are only the people that live in this area the rest of you it's none of your business it's all up to them if they want to incur the cost to pave their roads and they'll get to vote if they vote no it'll go away if they vote Yes we're ready to come in and and help to make that project occur so um Mr Alward you have done such a great job of trying to identify some houses and some areas to start with this to see if it's even going to be something that the voters want to do it's our way of helping them out to get something done in their Community sir well I don't have much more to add to that I mean we did uh you know know look at the areas really close determine this was the best area to try this program like you described so thank you thank you are you finished sir thank you commissioner Goodson yes can you tell me Mr Alid what are the average lengths of these roads uh I do have that here give me one one second okay got to find where he smart Okay well okay good I've got numerous questions we'll see how smart he is be amazed might be amazed you are we're working on the length right now commissioner okay um okay let's move forward they they vary uh just give me an average well I'd have to add them up I'm going to say probably less quart mile some of them are points quar of a mile yeah maybe okay yeah tell me how wide are they they're 50ft rideways the roads are are 20 21t the okay are you planning on uh doing grading the swells and soing the swells and replacing pipe in this cost I believe that would be best answered by public works I didn't get into the the design commissioner in some cases I think there'll be some driveways and other drainage structures that'll be included these particular streets are relatively low in that uh area of road construction won't be a lot of that compared to some other areas can you give me either one of you cost for a 1500t street from the beginning to the asphalt I don't have that off top of my head um I don't know if Mark's over can you give me how many years it will take a person to pay $1,500 with numerous residents paying it before they could accept to expect to see a street I'm if I follow the question how long if if it was approved how long if they're paying their taxes if everybody on the Street's paying $1,500 how long will it be before they would see a road I think it was determined again Public Works might be able to answer that between six to seven years they will have all of those Road years completed six to seven yes sir yeah that was the goal seven years oh thank you sir okay that one thing that is dependent upon as Morris had indicated these items would come back uh to the commission uh in each case okay all right that's all the questions do you have some comments that you'd like to make nothing further unless the port has any questions okay all right may I absolutely commissioner appre it we did a put a maximum amount in there just so I didn't want it ambiguous so nobody would know what the cost would be so there's an a maximum amount so again it's it's totally total business the people that live there it's totally up to them whether they would like this project or not so that's that's just giv it to the voters that just live in that area none of you guys get to vote on it so it's just for them could I ask a quick question on that you say that the maximum amount so that's up to $1,500 a year that's what would that would be the maximum amount for the voters that are um for the property owners that would be their maximum cost whether or not the actual cost would be more that would be something that would have to be determined obviously you don't know what the cost would be 2 3 four 5 years away and whatever cost would be involved uh you know the rest would have to be made up some other way okay okay any more discussion do I hear a mo hang on chair I got a question okay yes sir here's my question years ago you to you'd go out in the county and you'd process soil cement and you'd build a road okay now I don't know if you're what base you're choosing or subbase you're choosing don't really care but what I do find interesting can somebody tell me in this whole thing the design design design phase how much money are we going to take from these people to design a dirt road to go go to asphal commissioner um I I would say it's uh approximately a couple hundred, per mile I I didn't uh bring all our uh details here to be able to discuss that but we provided some concept level um information to the district one Commission Office based on what we have seen costs uh for both uh design for environmental and for construction and that was what was uh put forth so you're saying $300,000 for this project in design alone approximately a couple hundred thousand per mile because as you know we need to look at the drainage we need to look at environmental impacts and we need to make sure that we're building roads that are compliant question you know of course I'm old so please don't let my age uh offend you the the the ditches have been there for 40 years the road hasn't changed in 40 years and we're going to spend $300,000 to put in a County Road out in the subdivision and I please I'm sure it's going to be a Class Act but I won't be here God bless you because I just find that so unacceptable that we we're going to charge these people to design a road that they're driving on so why would I pay $300,000 unless I really want to drive on asphalt I just you know I hear you but I hear you mark thank you for your comments okay commission pet yep I'm sorry commissioner Goodson were you no no go ahead go ahead commissioner pre well the actual cost of this is really much higher than this amount commissioner G Goodson Comm um district one MST is kicking in a lot of funds for those parts of it so even in the past when I've had a a road come and they've given me an msbu what I have done with our mstu funds cuz District 1 has quite a few of these because of all of these roads we've kicked in a large percent so they haven't even paid for the full amount to get that done as well and that again is going to come into play with this but again these houses contact us on a regular basis asking for the roads to be paved they've they haven't been able to go out and get their msbu in so this is just like almost one big msbu for them to vote on if they want it the funds are going to be there so they know exactly how much it's going to cost if they want have it done but again the district one area has an mstu where we kick in a lot of funds as well and there's also funds that come down the the pike um probably into the future we've done this all along because we have we have 40% of the unincorporated area in district one so this has been our nightmare since day one began and so getting these roads done and helping our community and District One have of their their their roads taken care of has always been a big trick for this this um the commissioner before me commissioner fiser got a a big chunk of money from the um gas taxes and he he dumped millions of dollars into these roads at that time as well and I don't see that coming down the pike anytime and these people really want help with their community so we're trying to put something together see if this will help them in the process again if they don't want to do it they just vote no I want them to have all the information like commissioner toaya always says everything out there so that again it's only their business it's none of our business it's none of your business unless you live there it's just the business of the people that live there if they want to do this or not and that's what we did we just ate it in a process to help them get this done if they would like to do it okay question yes sir that being said commissioner and you want them to have all the information when are you planning on giving them the information on the total cost of a road how you're building the road how much is being spent on design and when could I expect my road in six or seven years and how will you pick those by a lottery no it's going to all be done as as one big project going in correct we're going to start moving through that whole areas is what I was briefed on correct there'll obviously be phases as the commissioner is uh suggesting but our plan is for over a seven-year period uh to finish all uh I believe it's about 12.8 miles was the last uh amount and uh we would work with the commission office on setting up those priorities and logically rolling through it uh We've also been working with the district office uh for many years as commissioner pritchet had said and have some designs already either on the shelf or uh underway so those would seed that so that we can actually start uh pretty close to day one If This Were to pass Mr chair yes sir uh commissioner Goodson those are details that the board would see before adopting the special assessment uh under the statutory requirements they'd see them at that time and mailed individual notice prior to that will go out once again to all the residents and they'll have the ability to come speak at Future public hearings on the adoption of the assessment as well with those details in place okay before we go forward uh Miss Sullivan if I cut off a minute of your time if you would like a minute to address the rest of this issue you're welcome to come up okay thank you very much all right I'm uh do I hear motion motion to approve a motion to approve is there a second I'll second motion by commissioner pet secondly by commissioner feltner any more discussion all in favor signify by saying I I all oppose nay motion carries all right let's go to new business J1 election of value adjustment board chair person who is going to handle that I make a motion to nominate commissioner Taya uh is there a second to that I'll second Madam chair commission if the Madam commissioner would have if the Madam commissioner if the Madam commissioner okay now I'm getting upset okay if you would have also in your motion could you place one for you to stay on the board too I I will you're only going to have me for a couple more weeks after that but I understand one motion at a time all right we we have a motion motion to have commissioner toaya be the chairperson I believe it's been seconded by commissioner feltner all in favor signify by saying I I all oppose nay nay too bad too sad all right now is there a motion to keep commissioner pritet on the SW chairman I'd like to make I'll stay I promise you'll have to do a motion thank you okay all right so we got commissioner pritchet promising she's going to stay we don't need to do a motion let's move on to J2 approval of ballot language legislative attent and permission to adverti save our Indian riveron infrastructure and sales service tax ordinance to place a referendum on November 5th 2024 and renegotiating the existing Municipal interlocal things now we have a lot of cards so I would appreciate very much if we try to keep our comments as brief as possible if you feel like you need to go the whole three minutes that's fine but please don't repeat everything or anything that's that's already been said uh so uh Virginia the floor is yours um you introduced the item and so I'm here for history progress or any questions from the board okay thank you very much Craig are you uh the presenter for this issue I am Craig Wallace with the Bardon Coalition uh thank you very much for the opportunity to speak uh I'm here representing all the blue shirts in the room and those blue shirts that couldn't be here because they're at work today uh and I would like to really thank uh Virginia uh and her staff uh what they have put together here this program is recognized it's the Envy of all the counties around us uh it's attracted matching funds from the state federal government it's doing what it was supposed to do and we thank all the Commissioners for supporting that plan every year for the last seven years um we've now we're we're seeing evidence we've actually getting some seagrass regrowth we're starting to think we have started to we've hit the bottom and we're starting to come back up so we we really think this program is working and we're seeing evidence of that with the clean Waters and you know lot fewer alol blooms um but uh science tells us that we have years of work left to work left to fix this problems uh we need to get to the point where we have those Lush seagrass Fields back again that will stabilize the Lagoon we also have now uh 60,000 septic tanks in Bard County they're all pumping pollutants into the the grounder and we need to to get those converted either to uh upgraded systems or at least to uh connected to the public sewer to do that it could be many decades and probably billions of dollars we've got aging infrastructure for the the sewage plants that we're going to have to pump add these into so there'll probably be some cost there what we are uh recommending is that um this issue be brought to the voters uh this year because the uh we still have two years left and two and a half years left in the program but bring it to the voters this year it allows us to get the planning started for these large scale projects that take 10 years from start to finish to get these projects going so we know once we get into uh that we know we have a future to go to after the the uh 10year program expires uh so we'd like to be able to start the planning process now for those programs uh asking the voters uh now we think is the best option um the voters say yes then it's we have a clear path to to move forward we have don't have any U uh slowdowns in the progress uh if we if they say no then we have two years left to try to educate the voters in terms of why this program is critical because it's going to probably cost them more in the long run if they don't do it now um so ultimately the decision is yours um this is our recommendation certainly if you have a better approach to doing this we'd certainly like to hear that thank you very much thank you so much can I say something that correct yes uh Sir with all due respect if the voters say no I I wouldn't put it before the voters the second time I I would respect what they what they said so just just so that we're we're clear on that okay okay so the notion that if they say no then you got two more years to come back I I think that's a mistake so okay okay thank you I mean it's it is your decision okay um I think by the way I'm getting information from the from the county attorney I think there has to be four years anyways is that correct you couldn't put it back on the ballot sooner than four years if it were to go to the ballot and fail sir all right sorry Mr chairman thank you thank you all right Haley Bush good morning Commissioners my name is Haley Bush I'm Communications and Outreach director for Statewide nonprofit 1,000 friends of Florida we a smart growth and environmental advocacy organization so I'm here today to ask you to approve placing the soral amendment on the ballot in November and give this to Bard County voters the sorl program has demonstrated significant benefits not only by funding vital local projects but also by leveraging additional matching dollars from state and federal programs this makes it a high return investment with contributions coming from both residents and visitors to this County this local funding source is instrumental in maintaining the progress this county has made towards improving water quality and achieving our long long-term goals for the Indian River Lagoon to ensure the continued SU uccess and momentum of restoration it's essential that we secure steady and certain funding and we think Bard County voters know the importance of the continuation of sorl we can't afford to lose the momentum this progress uh this program has generated for water quality restoration work and I applaud your natural resources department and the county staff that have provided oversight and delivery of the projects made possible by sorl while the half-cent sales tax technically doesn't expire until 2026 like we've discussed the long list of unfunded restoration projects continues to grow and we'd hate to see any slowdown in momentum due to uncertainty of program funding I'm a Florida native I currently live in St Petersburg I grew up in the Gainesville area swimming in our state's freshwater Springs and then I spent many Summers as a child in uh the Melbourne Coco Beach area learned to paddle board on the Indian River Lagoon so this area I'd like to think I see a lot of the State of Florida through my travels and work um but you guys really have a gem here on this east coast of the State of Florida and as was mentioned earlier The Bard County program that you all have in place sorl is one of it one of a kind and I think it's definitely worth uh protecting and I think voters here understand that as well so again thank you for your time please make supporting the restoration of the Indian River Lagoon part of your legacy and let voters decide to proove sorl in November thank you thank you very much Heather Elco good morning um I am a member of the Space Coast aabon Society but I am here to speak for our conservation chairman who is Matt Hayden and Matt isn't able to be here today so I brought his statement as conservation chair for Space Coast aabon I have been carefully following the decline and bottoming out of our Lagoon for more than 20 years finally I see that the decline has almost hit bottom I consider our Lagoon as a cancer patient that is in temporary remission because the thorough analysis of the problem and the actions taken by sorl resulting in some of the lasting permanent improvements that have already been made the soral projects are proving to be one of the best investments in the future of Bard County I could imagine it is time to talk about leaving remission and begin recovery back to what we enjoyed so many years ago recovery isn't going to happen unless the soral projects can continue and there can be no continuation and Improvement if we don't get a chance to vote on it let's have another referendum so the voters can vote for a bright future for our County instead of being stuck where we are with a murky polluted Lagoon thank you thank you very much Michael mayak good morning Michael maack Titusville I'm also the vice chair of the Titusville environmental commission I'm a member of the Indian River Lagoon Roundtable and I'm the chair uh secretary rather for Florida's right to cleanwater.org hurricanes spinning up faster atmospheric rivers of rain are consuming our shorelines these are the challenges of a changing climate which we'll not effectively deal with unless we start to curb our fossil fuel use but neither will we be fully effective if we fail to harness the power of our aquatic ecosystems the Indian River Lagoon yes to heal our planet you see a healthy Indian River Lagoon is a carbon sequestration magnet you already know that mangroves help aate storm surge here's another tidbit Noah reports that mangroves and coastal wetlands annually sequester carbon at a rate 10 times greater than mature tropical forests per equivalent area they store three to five times more carbon than tropical forests that's 10 times the storage rate in 1/3 to 1/5 of space that's amazing thus you have something at your fingertips that's worth considering we have a very potent means of addressing greenhouse gases right here and mitigating the effects of our changing climate our worsening floods our beach erosion right here when wetlands are destroyed we lose their sequestration capability worse the carbon that they have stored is now released adding to existing greenhouse gas levels in the atmosphere I ask you who's going to want to come and visit our blue green algae Laden Lagoon failure to preserve protect enhance and restore our aquatic ecosystems undermines our ability to confront climate change I'd like like you to renew the soral program and its funding and to keep this planet saving effort in our Legacy if we do not then you can expect the Indian River Lagoon's long-term illness to affect you and yours literally choking the life out of bouard and not just our economy thank you thank you Vinnie Toronto good morning good morning v um I'd like to first thank you commissioner pritchet and commissioner toaya for allowing me to serve as part of this profound initiative to save one of our County's true Treasures the Indian River Lagoon soril itself and my service on the C started at the same time you both started your service on the dis nearly 8 years ago it's been quite the ride huh I had so much more hair on my head back then we served through an apocalypse and thank you chairman steel commissioner felner and commissioner Goodson for supporting this initiative resulting in a unanimous approval of this year's plan update it's been an honor I've seen the COC and soral staff work hard and I believe we're operating at the high level of of efficiency the residents of Bard expect and deserve the big question today is why move forward on the referendum now I have three simple reasons the first is a business case sorl doesn't just happen it has dedicated staff that turn the gears this staff is made up of awesome Everyday People shout out to the soral staff and our mucketeers they're gaining valuable experience and institutional knowledge that result in continuous efficiency improvements letting the citizens decide now would give the program the best chance to maintain this high level of efficiency with the full staff intact and those gears spinning at full speed we've got a hot rod it's operating at maximum capacity let's let the voters choose what happens to it now the citizens deciding is point2 I'm certain you all know this but historically presidential election years have more participation in Bard the last two gubernatorial years had only a 67% and 58 8% turnout just two years ago contrast that with the last presidential which had a whopping 80% turn out go bravard I worked the polls that year I was head sanitizer it was busy even those that don't agree with moving forward with Soro can't argue the best opportunity to hear from the most residents is this year finally there is the concern of letting the next commission decide but if you move forward today providing the highest probability the program's efficiency and long-term planning continues unimpeded with the greatest number of Vota bles possible pulled the next commission already H will have their say every year just as I mentioned the beginning of my speech you all control the plan you've made it yours you've improved it yearly commission decision is already built in this year 8 members of the COC will be turning off the next commission will be responsible for putting some of those back on they'll have their say the best time to move forward is now the best way to move forward is yes Mr chair yes sir given Vinnie's extensive time on Soro can we offer him another minute absolutely and his expertise well I'll take 30 seconds I'll remove all my bad jokes um there is still great progress to be made new science has shown water salinity and TP ratios as emerging variables we need to focus focus on we've had tremendous Financial growth years but what if the economy wains this year we've already had to slightly scale back a project due to lack of unmarked funding the best time like I said is to move forward now the best way to move forward is to say yes I thank you the future of vard thanks you thank you Vinnie no no no no no no we don't want to do that s Sullivan Sandra Sullivan I am a lagoon Advocate I advocate for the environment a lot my waves action group was created and has spent a lot of the issues working on environmental issues I have dug into the Lagoon tax extensively I call this the St John's river water management mock tax and I think it's a bait and switch fraud in December 2015 there was an article in Florida today that said that the lagon TA that they wanted to create a mock tax to uh but the infrastructure s tax 22.05 five was not legal since that bill failed for two years I've been coming to you for years asking you to get an AG legal opinion whether it's even legal to use this tax for maintenance stretching and and for marketing $4 million a year for the last two years let's talk about a little history in 2010 State started spraying instead of uh mechanical harvesting and uh we lost a lot of our seagrass growth um 96% as of 2022 of seagrass loss but I'm saying is we got mocked okay so we have a lot of projects the first plan came out the person who wrote it was hired in 2015 as the wife of St John's River Water Management District Board member these are all the projects currently there's a lot of controversies because you want to give Sno to city of Melbourne according to your meetings here and it's going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars more for mck drudging because you want to pump it between eight and 13 miles down to Palm Bay and then there's the misrepresentations on how long the Grand Canal Project's going to take um and we think we're going to get bait and switch of putting that on panita so there's the shot about the loss of seagrass that's in the Banana River and all this like oh it's getting better this year we haven't had rain yet rain hasn't started that's what happens every year so the last project 8.1 miles on the oali project 2 and a half times8 and a half 8.1 miles $49 million so then there's the issue of Rocket Tree Drive and uh we Cho down all the trees or butchered them and I start digging I have a records request outstanding since May 20th obstructed by the director of Natural Resources but I did get one page from the work product that I requested and this is for a lift station at the South End of the Harvey property by a developer this is the storage units going in and this developer is an affordable housing developer so is this really about uh uh yeah anyway we got mocked Chuck Sheridan thank you commissioner Steele my name is Chuck Sheridan 1405 Glen Haven Drive Meritt Island uh I want to give you a little bit of History I've been doing a lot of research on the Indian River Gerald Ford on on January 24th 1974 wrote The mered Island Wildlife Refuge National Monument Park into law and in that it states that the federal government shall maintain the Merit Island Wildlife Refuge in it and its Lagoon systems which are part of its boundaries in its natural and pristine condition and should that ever change the federal government would whether it be a cause of NASA man or God the federal government would pay to restore it and you know I haven't seen that happen but uh and there were there was five $779 million set aside to purchase the Wildlife Refuge from ter for it the county donated a large large portion of the property Titusville donated a large portion of the property and there was $279 million left they only used 500 million that 279 million was supposed to be left in the Park Service to maintain and keep The Preserve in its natural and pristine primitive condition uh we need to get that money for this I'm not against the the half tax I we need to keep this our project going uh we recently in 2002 federal government did enact the bipartisan infrastructure law and national Estuary program which will supposed to have it has $132 million of 2022 but it keeps going up each year and each part of the 54 there's 54 estuaries identified on the national map and there's some arguments whether we're one of them or four or five of them but they're supposed to be $900,000 a year go towards each one of those 54 estuaries so um another little fact uh uh part of our lagon system you know we phosphates nitrogen sulfur uh the uh two things happened in 2010 that caught my attention that power plant OU see power plant shut down where they could start it back up and the Port St John power plant converted over to Natural Gas Port St John natural gas puts out uh particle matter 2,893 tons which is mostly iron particles and 2,23 tons of sulfur dioxide and 1629 tons of nitrogen oxide which are things we're trying to keep out of the river so maybe we should look to them for some funding for it as well thank you very much sir yes sir Mr Sheridan yes I I listened to you but I I I'm sorry for the 3 minutes I don't know where are on this one you said you're not against are you for it or you you against it or did you just take 3 minutes to waste everyone's time I didn't take three minutes to waste everybody's time we need to keep the the program going not getting funding from the government are you in favor of it yes or no that's all I'm asking I'm in favor of it of okay thank okay that's all I was asking thank you some did either one of the Commissioners have questions before we move move on Aaron ad Adams morning Commissioners uh thank you for the time my name is Aaron Adams I'm a South Beach's resident I'm also director of conservation and uh and science for bone fish and Tarpon trust which is the international nonprofit conservation organization I have a 40-year career in Marine research conservation and policy I'm working around the hemisphere um I think a lot of the points have been covered uh key here is that the work that's been done by Virginia her staff and others is starting to work we're starting to see some recovery uh it's going to take decades more of that it's an investment the biggest thing is that when you do this type of restoration work it takes years of planning just to get to the point where you can execute a project so a project we want to do in five years that planning has to start now if we have the implication of perhaps not having funding so this doesn't go on to the B till 2026 that stops the planning right now for future projects we would have more projects in the pipeline now if we'd had another five years uh prior to the 10 years of of funding that we now have in hand so keeping that going that momentum going is is essential and I imagine that uh Virginia can uh second that uh it's also very important that it helps Bard County leverage uh some of the state money um that the governor's office has recently allocated to the IRL $175 million over the past two years which is very important Bard County can get a significant a larger portion of that by showing their dedication uh to restoring the IRL more of that state money and I would also um guess that we would get more of that money from the state over the coming years if we show our commitment so I urge you to uh put this on the ballot in 2024 um so that the residents can once again tax themselves this isn't coming out of bravard budget it is us the residents of Bard seeing the cultural and economic importance taxing ourselves to fix the system thank you thank you very much Dr Stephanie Eli thank you for the opportunity on the we understand the importance of this and the long-term planning that everybody's talked about so I would just encourage you to put this on the ballot for 2024 thank you very much thank you very much Laura Lee thank you for being so patient did you bring any goodies for us from your restaurant no the restaurant wasn't open yet when I left town man I tell you I would have that's right you know also C corn Fitters don't taste as good when they're cold um so I'm Laur Lee Thompson 3550 Iran Avenue and I support putting putting the U vote to the people in 2024 uh for most of the reasons that were many of the reasons that were already stated and one of those is the long-term planning and the time that it takes to put these large scale projects together and I'm going to pick one you know it's dear to my heart and that's the max Brewer Causeway in Titusville so we have two fabulous projects that are taking place on Max Brewer on the North side we have a um a parking lot and major high technology storm water uh processing control going in on the North side and there's going to be a retaining wall and then a restoration of the beach and on the South Side you have wave attenuation devices going on in the river that will break up the power so we have the longest fetch of all coming into the south side of the Titus Causeway and the erosion has been catastrophic so we're going to put in wave breaks restore the beach there so actually Titus well is going to have the one of the longest causeways in the county with beaches on both sides not not rocks and construction debris and Rubble but actual beaches and it's also the most important horseshoe crab nesting area in the entire state so you have two projects and and it'll be a showcase too and it'll be a test because on the the north side of the causeway you have the traditional gray infrastructure that's put in place to um for resilience and on the southside of the cosway you'll have the new technology green infrastructure going in place also for resiliency so it'll be interesting to see how how the two technologies work um and I I'm I'm really anxious to see the results of that but my my point is that we started on this I think on the North side I think commissioner pritet in 2014 it was a long long long time ago it was part of a Bard County Parks referendum okay and but the serious work started in 2017 but we started talking about it then and in 2016 we started talking about the Southside so it takes a long long long time to plan and execute and get these long these large permits uh projects permitted and that's why we need to keep the soral program going so that the agencies that we're working with know that that funding will be in place in the future thank you thank you very much all right that's the end of the cards but I do have a couple of questions if uh you don't mind me asking Virginia I think maybe you might be be able to answer him for me uh number one uh how many counties does the Indian River Lagoon Encompass um there're five that are along the Lagoon and then the southern edge of the Lagoon touches Palm Beach County and so they don't claim the Lagoon when it's going to cost them something to fix it and they do claim the Lagoon when they when it's in their best interest to do so so the half cent tax is only applicable to Bard County yes sir and the rest of the counties pay zip they do many of their own projects but they what they do is funded other ways okay I'm the one who sponsored this bringing it before the board today and I have a little bit of indigestion and I want to make sure for at least I move forward on this today that none of the money that comes in is spent for stuff that has not been approved already and that we find that some of the money is being spent for things that really are not in the plan for spending the money so how do we protect ourselves in regards to the way the money is spent um you see the plan annually the County Commission approves the plan annually all of the dollars that are collected go into the savear and univer Lagoon trust fund that's in the board's control none of those dollars are spent on anything that's not pre-approved by the board in the plan um the program is audited annually and there have been very few minor uh issues during all that time on any invoice any anything so you feel comfortable that we're in good shape in regards to that you are absolutely in control of these dollars okay uh that's all the questions I have is there's discussion from the commission commissioner feltner I'm sorry commissioner pritchet did you have your no okay that's the only one commissioner to did you have your light on commissioner felner please go ahead put my light on I don't disagree with putting this before the voters I disagree with putting it before the voters in 2024 and here's the reason why 60% of this board is going to change in uh November and putting this issue before the voters just two weeks before the new commission starts I think is a mistake I think not including them in the discussion letting them be a part of workshops whatever we need to do in the next uh year and then putting it uh before the voters in 2026 will put us in a much better position I want Buy in from the the next commission not having to debate whether the merits of the program overall and I think that's what will happen if uh we don't include them so again I think that's a strategic mistake heard several things today uh you're better off to put it before the voters in a presidential election um there's going to be some volatility in this election uh I don't know that necessarily High turnout uh always gets you the outcome that you want that's that's just not factual um I think the notion that there won't be high turnout in 20126 which will be a referendum on whoever wins in 2024 uh the idea that will be low turnout is is not correct I I say this as a practitioner of these things uh the current plan has us uh spending money out to 2034 I think that there we received something this this week that said that and there's $300 million in the bank uh today so with due respect I think this is something that can wait for for the new commission that's where I am today thank you okay who's up anybody else commissioner to yeah thank you Mr chair and um I think something we all can agree on both up here on the Das as well as out there is that uh Virginia and her team have done an absolutely bang up job the uh Soro committee um has gone above and beyond and I'm hesitant to say this because I'm normally on the other side but uh Vinnie uh uh has acted in such a way as a uh participant on that calling calling me personally numerous times that if normal advisory boards acted uh in such a manner I would be uh less concerned with uh the performance of them so across the board I think not only the citizen volunteers but the paid staff have done an incredible job one that uh everyone can be proud of um and and commissioner uh tell touched on some of these and and this is just another great shout out to uh uh Virginia and her staff they have a bar graph up there so let's go through some of the numbers um and this is the way I look at this is the way I look at this uh um and it dub tailes off some of the stuff commissioner felner uh said um I think we're uh this this may be a this is a huge problem here and um I think we need to see if what we've done is having a marked impact and just how big of a marked impact uh before we ask for more this is akin to you know a child with uh dessert who wants seconds but they haven't eaten the full portion of their dessert before they're already asking uh for the second so let's put that some some facts behind that we've spent uh where we've seen measurable different uh uh measurable uh uh progress of just under $78 million um what that accounts for is uh about uh 12 or 13 uh sorry 133% of the total amount where we've spent the money it's been completed and we've seen the impact that that money has we have about three almost $400 million in progress so yes it's doing its job hopefully it's doing its job well but we can't measure the outcome of that 400 million the totality of that until it's done what that means is there is another almost 200 million just 195 million that we have yet allocated uh so we won't be able to see what the impact of that yes it's a moving Target this is not a failure by any means in fact I think the they're they're acting in a conservative uh manner in the way they're uh allocating These funds but but but there's 195 million left to be uh allocated and uh again these projects won't some of these projects won't be underway till 2028 um and they won't be fully spent till 2034 so I was concerned about two things number one um if we didn't do it this year would we lose would there be a a loss in continuity of projects as well as Personnel because uh it it would be terrible that we have uh environmental experts on here see this um um not come up today and decide to go in a different direction and and we have a lot of those experts that are funded so Virginia was uh very helpful um but needless to say that uh if this doesn't go before the voters in 20 till 2026 uh we will still need those experts tell that point so um we will have the funds to cover them tell that point and then the voters can decide one way or another um and and as I mentioned before these projects some of these projects won't start till even 2028 so I don't see that there will be a loss of continuity in either projects or more importantly personnel and and this is just a shout out to to to Vinnie again um uh and I said this was bad that we came to the same conclusion but it he he was looking out for not only the the environment but the people that help uh the the people that are out there the the experts and and uh the personnel and I think lots of people are missing that that there it's not just volunteers but we have uh paid experts who are on this and and and I greatly appreciate that and if it doesn't come before the voters this time and it comes in 2026 uh we shouldn't lose any of those uh on top of that we will have better data we will have better data and the impacts of what we're doing to find out is this do we need it all 10 years uh will we need it longer when when we started um you know people were saying this is a billion dollar project now it's A5 billion doll project or it's a$3 billion do project what we need is to see more of the impact and its efficacy uh before we go to voters and ask what if 10 years you know what's going to be a half billion dollars of more resources because their responses could very well be is um you know how much have you spent and what have you seen from the impact and right now um it's positive I'm not arguing it's it's it's very positive and I think that's a great thing when we've only spent and seen when I say spent I mean we've completed projects of 13 what is it 13.8% of the total amount again that's 77.8 of the projected $586 million so uh for those reasons as well as what commissioner felner said with the new board uh coming in um I would uh I I I'll I'll throw a motion out here my motion would would be not to deny this but to move to continue this item till a date certain on the first regular board meeting in April 2025 we'd have more data you'd have more Commissioners and I think they could make a better uh and a more informed uh opinion could could I answer that uh commissioner felmer I just I I think uh your your motion is well intention I I tell you my my vision um uh going forward uh with the next board is that we have a series of workshops I don't as you know I don't have a problem with workshops and so I think some of those details can be worked out so within a a few uh four months of them getting here uh seeing that we're going to vote on it again I I'm not quite sure that that's right so but um I appreciate what you're doing there okay is there a second to commissioner to commissioner pritchet thank you I I want to uh piggyback on some of those things um Miss Virginia you are great with what you do and your and your staff you are your integrity is is right at the top of what you do and um when the question was asked about spending it where the voters intended it you have that right on the nose never never have had a problem with the way you've managed These funds and the projects you've bought brought forth and I I appreciate that tremendously and um Vinnie I'm going to piggy back on that too you're such a good person and and your heart's so bright in this project and you're you're easy to listen to and and to um to Think Through the things that you bring up as well and and the passion for this um our Lagoon is is is pretty great that we all surrounded around a common cause and it's it's a wonderful place we live and our Lagoon is so vital to us I heard there's sharks in it a lot more now so um a a couple of thoughts on this um I I'm Pro Lagoon you know any time we're going to bring this for it you're going to have me behind it I'm going to be you know out there you know promoting vote for it vote for it I don't disagree with the fact that I think it's a little bit premature I think it would be better to put on the ballot in two years but I tell you what I'm willing to do is to make a motion right now to approve this ballot and approve it to go on the ballot in two years so I I would I would make that motion that I approve this it goes on in two years that would give the next commission if they need to make some tweaks um we did this a few years ago with a couple things you have a couple things coming on the ballot we worked on very hard two years ago that are coming on the ballot and um this commission could change it right now if we want it to in the next couple weeks I'm not sure we're going to but we could so I'm going to I'm going to make that motion to do that because I don't I think there's a motion on the floor yes sir but I'm just saying what I'm going to do in a minute okay but my my thought with that is is then because I think there probably could be some more um aquarium aspects put in this as well the aquarium is going to be a great project for the Lagoon so maybe the next commission can tweak through some some funds to raise to have that project really take off and to be very successful because look the aquarium is going to do great things for our Indian River as well with with science and study so those are some things if we had more time that I would have brought up for this if we were going to do this now so um after the motion goes if it goes or doesn't go sir I will be making a motion to approve this language to go on the ballot in 2026 very good commissioner felner I I suppose we should just handle these motions as as as they come so are we on commissioner tobi's motion we have not gotten a second for commissioner Tobias yet is there a second for commissioner tobias's motion hearing no second to the motion dies commissioner preet I'd like to make a motion to um place this ballot language on the ballot in 2026 and um then the commission for the next couple years you guys can make adjustments or changes but everybody up here supports Lagoon and I think that will make this speak volumes we are behind it just the timing should be um adjusted a little bit for more information and study Mr chairman with with all due respect I think that's this commission making a decision for the next commission so I I'm I know you could take affirmative steps to undo it but that's what they would have to do and I think we should just let them decide to put it before the voters again maybe after a series of workshops or whatever they decide and I I think that's the better way to go so I I wouldn't support um that motion today commissioner Goodson you have any comments no I'm going to wait I've got a motion after you okay that was my motion if there's a second okay is there a second to commissioner Pet's motion motion dies for lack of second commissioner Goodson I would like to make a motion that we place this on the ballot and with the proper wording from our attorney that's my motion commissioner pret would you take the chair please I will second that motion okay I'm going call the motion on that one all in favor say I I all opposed nay nay that motion fails I'll give you back the okay wow don't approve we are are terrible now Mr chair yes sir uh quick question for commissioner Goodson as we move forward um did you make that motion to avoid the workshops or I I was just curious and of course you not being there won't be near yeah yeah okay I was just trying to find the basis of it thank you Mr chair what if we make the workshops voluntary Mr okay commissioner Goodson if you can give me any good reason to have a workshop on salt water and grass I'll be there okay and I don't mean the smoking Comon either okay may commissioner pritchet yes I just want to reiterate that I I will be supporting this in two years and if that motion would have gone through I would have been privileged to uh make that motion to put on the ballot in two years so in commission commissioner Goodson do you have something else to say to say the same about putting it on now i' be honored to put it on there now I think we all support it now I think you all know that that the commission all supports Indian River Lagoon there's no question about it this is about the timing of what's going on I voted in favor of putting it on the ballot right now uh but let me just scare share a couple of real quick concerns number one you put that on right now and the governor May rethink his position on funding because of all of that money that comes down from the thing you may say well they don't need it they just had a half cent sales tax so it's much better really logistically if you do it in October of I mean in 26 so I'm not happy that we didn't pass it today but uh unfortunately it didn't go today but I think it will go in the future and we'll let this next commission make their decision so apologize but uh it's not going to happen today thank you very much all right let's go to uh public comments sander Sullivan one more comment okay thank you Sandra Sullivan so at the nego at the Bard County Fire um negoti there was a very prominent sign what is Public Safety worth to you um so I want to talk about some numbers uh of Staffing since October of 2021 we have lost 170 field Personnel in 2023 we lost approximately five field Personnel per month in 2024 this is increased to8 per month approximately the projection hearing from these people is that we're going to be to a point of Browning out fire stations which could cost lives by within the year if we don't address the public safety issue um the the pay differential the variance for a a medic at top out 10 years is about $25,000 uh um the the the problem is we have to find a way to fund this uh is the bottom line uh the the loss of experienced fire EMTs with many more expected to leave this year is is expected to have this service failure within a year the loss of employees due to insufficient pay after year three an insufficient staff causing mandatory extra shifts due du to a loss of staff problems which have not been addressed in the budget I don't know how you're going to need to how you're going to solve this but we need to we need to find a way to solve this uh there's an issue going back with the reports in 1997 I mean in prior to 1997 we funded EMS with an EMS assessment the problem is it was to when we took on in 1998 a countywide EMS we took we took on uh that that cost burden but we're not really charging this to the to the cities because the general fund portion is is short I did the numbers it's short and if you throw in the Lifeguard in there it the spread is even more so it's like 10 to 12% underfunding it it's more if you count the lifeguards and the LIF is another issue I went to a a meeting and one of our state reps stood up and said what you're doing and taking it from the cultural grants and moving it to marketing and you know the Driftwood method is not legal you're going to get sued and you pretty much need to look at this and this fear of going to the cities uh and negotiating with them needs to change it's causing the Lifeguard issue it's call causing the MS issue like thank you okay Charles you're up my friend come on up yeah that was commissioner fine and he's he's representative fine I'm sorry and he has uh taking those uh comments back so we'll go from there Charles go ahead Charles toy 2555 Roberts Road and I am your friend and I'm everybody's friend until they cross me backstab me uh disrespect me my right to live um I wrote on my card my property and things um I want to First say I saved the Lagoon and all the stuff that they're getting complimented on wouldn't be happening and successful or as successful if it wasn't for what I do and it's very important for the Lagoon anyways um I get gifted and I'm trying to work on my cooperation and my isolation from society and trying to be more social and amiable and I accept gifts from my commissioner feltner and the first one was a Lason dinner and I appreciate that but then couple days later I get a $50 a day fine for my house that they took from helicopter pictures which they think that it could be a problem in 15 years it hasn't been a problem in 25 years there hasn't been an issue of problems but they think there's a problem and I've supported it and with a river flowing through my property I had to because of the storage behind me and then I get a bowl of Jimmy hola's delicious rice couple days later another $50 fine because my property is dangerous and I've been cooperating and busting my butt and letting everybody know how willing and anxious I am to do everything and to comply and yet they're still finding me and Fe oh why what is that going to do just cost me more money $50 here every single day for things but yet you try and C it's unsafe we'll try and cross pinita Causeway with no pedestrian crossing that's unsafe uh how about the fuel tank at the end of the road with the gas 5,000 gallon fuel tank still left there I'm pretty sure it's trespassing if I go on um what's the other thing I don't know there's oh yeah the retention Pond behind the traffic operations facility that's not fenced in or the the boardwalk that's falling apart and they have all these weddings and parties and everything there and yet it's being band-aid and it's all public stuff but on my property which hasn't had any problems other than my neighbors and everybody else attacking me and the sheriff doesn't do anything about it so I'm being held whether I do something I'm $50 a day if I don't do it $50 a day thank you very much okay thank you um okay then board reports County Manager I have no report County attorney no report Mr chair commissioner pritchet no report sir commissioner Goodson none sir commissioner feltner no report commissioner steel none commissioner TOA you have the floor thank you Mr chair uh today is National uh gorgeous grandma day can't believe it okay the useful Florida fact uh Chuck Norris's diary uh AKA The Guinness Book of World Records uh uh Florida is in it for the largest Easter egg hunt on April 11 oh sorry in April 1st 2007 9,753 children and their parents gathered in Winter Haven Florida to break the world record for the largest Easter egg hunt 51,000 eggs were hidden through the Cypress Gardens Adventure Park uh it still stands day I did the math 51.3 6 eggs is what the average child uh got uh this day in Florida history on this day uh 1999 the space shuttle Columbia blasted off with the Chandra x-ray Observatory the world's most powerful x-ray telescope with Eileen Collins aboard the first woman to Pilot a space shuttle and the first to command a space shuttle mission most importantly the County employee recognition this is John Connelly uh John is a senior building inspector with the planning and development uh Department he's got 14 years of service John is an excellent employee who really cares about his job he continues to take classes to increase his knowledge even though he is not required to do so John currently holds a building inspector plans inspector building official and fire inspector certifications he's always willing to work extra hours to help uh us with inspections and plan reviews uh the fun facts uh John was a contractor in Miami before coming to bravard County he enjoys hunting and working on his property in North Carolina when he can um John these came from your co-workers I just read him for some reason JN always gets hurt when visiting his property in North Carolina he has fallen down the mountain and the most and most recently managed to get run over by his own four-wheeler um again I just read him uh he's been married to Joan for 39 years and she still allows him to come home every day uh so uh John thank you for all your service we greatly appreciate it that's it Mr chair thank you signify by saying I I all oppos nay the opinions expressed by any member of the public during any period of public comment do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the board of County commissioners of Bard County Florida Space Coast government television or the program sponsor and are solely those of the presenter the board of County commissioners of bravard County Florida Space Coast government television and the program sponsor hereby expressly disclaim any in all responsibility or liability for any defamatory or slanderous statements expressed by any member of the public during any such period