the meeting hasn't started yet haven't started I I will tell I will remind everybody and we'll get everybody's name for you don't worry we're nice all right we're live all right we going to call the meeting to order it's February 27th 20124 Bridgewater Township Zoning Board of adjustment regular meeting uh it's just after 7 o' uh both adequate electronic notice of this meeting specifying the time place and manner in which such notice was provided in accordance with the open public public meetings Act njsa 10 4-6 specifically on January 9th 2024 proper notice was sent to The Courier News and the Star Ledger and filed with the clerk at the township of Bridgewater and posted on the municipal bulletin board Please be aware of the Zoning Board of adjustment policy for public hearings no new applications will be heard after 9:30 p.m. and no new testimony will be taken after 10 p.m. if you're able please rise for the salute to the flag I pledge Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all all right good evening Roger we have a roll call please here I here yes yes yes I'm here here here here all right thank you very much um the transcription um is live tonight we have a person taking those notes and she's asked that we all speak into the microphone hopefully you all can hear us and what else would you like me to ask the board to please spell their last names I can just go down the role for you want to start with Mr kulac at the end if you could just spell your last name for the transcription purposes please sure kulak k l a k cat SI i c a t onjo b o n g i o r n o widely w i d e l i a fous FIS and Frank o o s e oler o l l e r Mrs am Min could you just say your last name and spell it for the record for our transcription person want you to your last name spell a m i n yeah she could probably see all these plates I would think right by now we're good Sweeney s we NE y good all right you got it all right um and just a quick announcement I want to mentioned Gary laspa has tendered his resignation um Gary's been a member geez probably about say about six seven years it's been great having him for those that don't know he works in Trenton he's always been able to bring kind of great color and and legislative information to the board uh he's going to start coaching little league this spring you know those are moments we get with our children I think people forget we're all volunteers and uh I told him go for it be a great coach and hopefully he makes the major leagues and uh I just want to wish Gary the best and his family the best it's been wonderful having him on the board I'm going to Echo what um chairman F said and also um on behalf of the zoning board I want to put a special thanks to the employees downstairs Roger Joanne and Nancy for all the work they've done the last several months for the zoning board I know it's been very difficult and busy to get everything together for us but believe me you make our lives a lot simpler thank you to all three of you and Roger I think is the only one here right now but the others no too thank you thanks uh and at this time i' open up the meeting to members of the public that would like to speak on any land use issue that is not on the agenda this evening seeing none I'm going to close that portion and we're going to go on to board minutes and we're going to start with the January 23rd reorganization meeting and I know Mrs ammin the first change we had was the time was incorrect right all right aside from the time any other changes or comments on the January 23rd reorganization meeting minutes can I get a motion she needs to talk the she can't hear but these are this is just board administrative business I don't know if you you need to to transcribe this and let the record reflect Mr gesi is here and it's 709 okay Mr vesio should be absent no he is he was present okay on my notes he was present I I have from here right it was just a thing just got changed from absent to pres could I get a motion I move he was here M we're changing it yeah we're good we're good we're yes yes yes yes yes all right yes all right next up is the January 23rd 2024 regular meeting changes comments andio is present for that yes okay can I a motion please I move yes yes do you want to give them to Roger toer so yes for changes okay thank break yes yes yes all right next up number seven we have resolutions I know a few members had some changes Mr kulak yeah I have um just one change but I think it's significant and I have a few comments on the Somerville Lumber resolution we had discussed um during the meeting the importance of allowing this business to operate as it had done in the past that is it was a Wholesale Distributor of lumber and building products with a small retail operation that was determined to be uh an auxiliary use at that time and then when I read the resolution I saw a lot of terminology around the warehouse aspect of this business and that kept coming to my attention and I thought well I'm not exactly sure that it was declared a warehouse by anybody and during the meeting I made a point of saying that we have to be very careful in our terminology so I can live with the the description of the business as a warehouse but I thought we should add one small thing to the resolution it's on page eight it's at Point number one and it's about halfway down it says any substantial modifications and I want to add or intensifications to the allocated uses shall require further approval from this board pursuant to and then we list the the ml reference so that's a change I would like to make okay with that rich yes I I reviewed that with um Mr kulak and uh but that was appropriate yes yeah thanks for all your help with that Mr kle I appreciate you took a lot of time even though it's only one word I think it's substantial and thank you for that Mrs am I know you had a change as well theot railroad traverses traverses all right okay yes all right so I just put this back to the board we worked hard on this this was kind of a crazy case and um open to any other changes board may have I move with the two changes all right Mr widely Mr bonjoro was a second yes uh yes yes yes yes yes all right and that brings us to the application portion of our meeting we have tonight what a realy to LLC 1288 and 1298 route22 and Morgan Lane we got okay okay this is our meeting this is the zoning board I'm the chairman I I I I I really want to help you but you you need to communicate what you need me to do because I'm not following what what you need okay all right so we're going to open it up to applications and and like I said this is Bridgewater realy 2 LLC what can I do to help you and okay that's easy all right all right so if we could all use our microphones all right sir thank you Mr chairman I'm Henry Kent Smith I'm with the firm of fox Rothchild I'm appearing tonight on behalf of bridgew realy um we are before this board tonight T night on a property that actually has a very long history both before this board and the planning board involving a site that's at block 222 uh it's now lot 6.01 um just so the board understands this property is a commercial condominium what that means is the property is held in common by the three owners of the property so you have the hoola hands that's no longer in business that is now being renovated for I think it's Stone Tavern then you have the hotel site that was approved by the planning board in 2019 they've graded the site they're in the building department now for the building permit and they hope to start construction in the very near future uh that was a Cambria Hotel that was approved Again by the planning board in 2019 as part of that 2019 approval from the planning board we had also proposed on the corner property which is technically unit three of the condominium a garded daycare educational facility 10,000 and plus square feet GED Day School um that unfortunately has suffered the fate of many dayc carees in the pandemic the pandemic effectively really hammered the daycare industry um in addition with more work at home and less in office work believe it or not the demand for daycare is not what it used to be and finally the uh bottom line is we're not having as many kids today as we had uh earlier in uh our history and therefore the demand for daycare has fallen so we are here tonight because we need a use variance under Section D1 70 D1 of the municipal land use law that is a commercial use variance this board I'm sure is very familiar with commercial use variances and the burden to proof and what I have to demonstrate on behalf of my client to sustain any positive action that this board may take for this proposal so what are we proposing in the location of the garded day school on that parcel we are now proposing a Starbucks um I hope I don't have to explain who Starbucks is they're somewhat uh endemic to our um uh president economy you see them everywhere um and so we are requesting a Starbucks because the Starbucks is a drive-thru it has a drive-through window and drive-throughs are not permitted in the zone that renders the use itself no longer permitted in the zone so we will be requesting tonight a D1 variance for a drive-thru window this property is located in the HIC that's a highway interchange commercial Zone um it's just right at where 22 and 287 um intersection is located um and so with this application we are not modifying any other component the hotel is the hotel the holahan now Stone Tavern is the holahan Stone Tavern we're not making any changes whatsoever to either one of those portions of the property it is just where the Starbucks will be proposed where the god School used to be under the 2019 approval and that is what we are before the board tonight let's talk about the 2019 approval because in all of our packets and it's called a rider to the application and I'm going to quote the following pre-existing non-conformities have previously been approved by the township and do not require further variance relief now I'm going to finish the 2019 board the planning board that met and approved this case certainly left some things to be desired um in my opinion it led to a new mayor being elected in our town not this case in particular but actions of that planning board that's my opinion but this board is not going to recognize anything that that planning board gave you because this is a totally different use so if you could address the writer to to the application it doesn't have a date but I think you know the document I'm speaking to I know exactly the document great Mr chairman and again we agree and will uh pursue each and every variant on its own without precedent in other words what happened in 2019 happened in 2019 before a different board for a different use we acknowledge that we now have to prove each variance that we are submitting before this board tonight um again just a a little background in considering a commercial use variance under criteria D1 um the Supreme Court has established some guidance for the consideration of bulk criteria since the use is not permitted in the zone many of the bulk criteria would not be applicable to the use so the board should be reviewing the entirety of the application everything as though it was one package that includes the use and the bulk the design criteria to make sure this board is satisfied that in our presentation tonight we meet each and every criteria necessary for this board to take action um so agreed Mr chairman these are variances for which we will be requesting this board Grant independent of any prior action so is there anything else this Board needs to know that the 2019 planning board granted that you're not going to be asking for besides looks like you're looking for design waiver but are there any of their bulks yes there are okay so if you would like Mr chairman I can go through the the bulk variance relief I think it would be helpful because of this rer to the application it was a bit confusing it was in all of our packets for this understood understood so Mr chairman and members of the board so in terms of the variance relief that's being requested um the first one is a front yard setback requirement of 100 feet which is required under the ordinance and 96.3 feet is um uh being uh proposed um the next variance is rear yard setback and buffer requirement 75t plus 125 ft buffer is required where 120 ft is what is being proposed that is in second relief request third relief request is deviation from the sidey yard setback and buffer requirement for accessory structures where 50 ft is uh required 125 ft buffer is required and here we have 135 ft which is being proposed as part of this application in addition we will also be seeking a building setback requirement from Route 22 that requirement uh is 200 feet under the ordinance uh we are proposing 119.4 ft as part of this application there is a canopy overhang that overhang is 1138 ft from Route 22 um there is a deviation from impervious coverage the ordinance has a 60% maximum impervious uh and we are proposing 60.5% imperious coverage so that is slightly in excess of what the ordinance standard is there is also a setback requirement for the proposed Monument sign that faces on Route 22 that setback is 25 ft under the ordinance uh we are proposing an 8 foot setback for the monument sign in addition the number of freestanding signs that are permitted on the building um I believe we actually if you look at the entirety of the sign package it's probably going to be five because there are two very small signs Mr chairman members of the board that you will see in our presentation that we did not think were warranted uh treatment as a sign but if this board so considers we will so uh request there is this parking setback requirement of 100 ft um that is uh required and the what we are proposing is 57 feet parking setback for the Starbucks and from uh Morgan Lane it'll be 20 feet setback from Morgan Lane and finally uh we do not request we request a variance for not providing a separate loading space as part of the Starbucks application um there are also design waivers which our engineer will get into relative to things such as um uh landscaping and parit height on the building I do want to note though for the record that the the uh planner identified a variance for fence height of 8 feet where 6 feet is the maximum permitted that fence is associated not with this Starbucks but with the hotel and that had been previously approved by the planning board is not being modified because that's part of the hotel's approval so you just point that out Andy where that is I did I did um so in terms of the application before the board I have a number of witnesses that I intend to bring forward tonight uh to present the entirety of the application uh my first witness will be Eric Mund um he is the um owner and uh Operating Officer for bridgew realy the property owner my second wi witness is Liz Anne Kyle she's representative of Starbucks and we'll go through in detail Starbucks operation why they are looking at this location and and everything related to how Starbucks operates my third witness is Rob michella from Gladstone he is the site plan design engineer and he will be discussing with the board the site layout he'll be discussing variances and design issues relative to design waivers my next witness will be Benjamin Horton he is a project architect for Starbucks and he will review The Building architecture as as well as the facade signs and we uh will be providing the board then with a more detailed analysis of the uh building signage and the variance request for that my next witness will be Gary Dean he's a professional traffic engineer from Dolan and Dean um he undertook a traffic analysis and he will testify regarding traffic and my Final witness will be Michael tobia he's a professional planner um he will be providing the planning testimony uh relative to the requested uh use and bulk variance relief and the basis for uh the uh board's if it was so inclined favorable uh review of the uh variance request and site plan so um with that I just want to make sure Mr chairman and board that we are properly vested with jurisdiction I have submitted the Affidavit of publication and all other uh supporting documentation for uh the notice just just M Smith I've reviewed the notices they're in proper form it was published timely and served on homeowners within 200 feet timely all in accordance with the list so the board has jurisdiction thank you very much um so with that Mr chairman I'd like to call Mr Mund as my first witness be swearing would you just raise your right hand please you solemnly swear that the testimony you'll give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God sir for the record would you State your full name please W thank you Mr mon appreciate that this address yes give him the address please street so Mr M um you are the uhu owner representative for Bridgewater realy yes sir Mr could you just bring the microphone thank you how's that that's much better thank you so Mr M then um explain your relationship to the property kind of a little bit of the background in history and what brings us to this board tonight uh we purchased we it's uh held in number of different family members we purchased the jack o Conor site did anybody familiar with Jacks we purchased the Swedish barbecue before Swedish was it the barbecue yeah Swedish barbecue before that in uh 1981 ran Jack O Conor with Jack for a period of about two decades um Jack wanted to retire and we wanted to keep building restaurants we built the hoola hands in uh 2002 and we did that in conjunction with a application with homestead Homestead Village I'm sure nobody remembers that that was from that was an application in 1997 or 98 um that application was uh brought up on a prerogative writ case from our friendly neighbor Mr Boychuk who used to own the Holiday Inn we we were stalled for a period of three years um got the restaurant going in 2001 and got it open in 2002 um about five years or so ago as we were uh entertaining um doing the wood Springs what was the previous application wood spring sweets it was a wood spring sweets and then it switched to Cambria Cambria and then okay and uh while we were entertaining that and had that in front of the board for a change of Hotel use uh the corner piece became available and uh that was purchased by my brother and I outside of the rest of the family um we had uh proceeded with the purchase and we had had a contract in 2019 with um Goddard School the local operator was the same person who operates The Goddard School in um in Hillsboro and um once Co hit uh we made a joint decision U it was it was primarily hers the driver to not go ahead and build the school uh her finances changed dramatically Ally during Co because the um the whole office Market dried up and they're the demand generators for for child care um so we were on a tenant search I much rather would have had a child care center there but uh that that went away and we waited for several years and we U got some indication from Starbucks that they'd like to be on the site we have an agreement and we're proceeding and that uh with this application and I hope that brings us up to date and just to just so the board knows in terms of the hola hands I had made representations if you could confirm who is going to be coming in there oh that I I should have been a little more clear we operated the hoolahan for a period of from 2002 to 2018 holahan Corporation then bought out all of my holahan interests we actually operated the restaurant um so they purchased our interests in 2018 uh then about a year and a half later they went bankrupt uh terminated the leases on on about half of their properties in New Jersey and unfortunately Bridgewater was one of them where I also happen to be the landlord and yes it's going to be a Stone Tavern he's under renovations right now it's Mr Mr desiderio I'm not going to be operating the restaurant um now in terms of the Hotel I made some representations just yes regarding the status could you confirm relative to the hotel and its construction plans I had a call with the I've sold the rear portion of the property to Mr Richard bojani he operates a dozen or so hotels in New Jersey and a number in Florida I said Richard uh how are you doing with your construction schedule it took him several years to recoup the losses he had sustained during covid and now he's faced with very high interest rates he sees there his uh operating numbers tend to be getting better and he's anticipating interest is going to come down uh he's anticipating construction between four to six months from now and he told me specifically he does have his plans in front of the town for review can I ask you a question I'm sure confused on the star where you want to put the Starbucks would own the property and the building and Starbucks would operate it then yes I'm going to I'm going to do all the site work and build them a structure so you would own the property and the building right but I would not be operating the restaurant okay so you're more like the landlord I'm a landlord yeah because you said like with h hands you would actually operate it I did I did in fact operate the hola hands for decade and a half I no longer operating restaurants I'm getting too old for that so hard business um so um I don't have any other questions relative to Mr Mund if the board has any questions relative to the property itself yeah let's open it up to members of the board and then we'll open up to members of the public following that and any board professionals that have questions I have a question document the planning department report with this yes in couple of pages Pages three four and five L all of the variances that are being requested this question for uh Robert the recite plan layout gu there are a lot of variances I when they go over more than VAR sorry turn it on it's on um so did someone you or you I'm sure you had to have an idea of what was going into this in terms of of the variances requested yep is there nothing that could be done to minimize 19 variance requests what I what I'm going to do is I typically go in as an I I still have an operator coat operating restaurants and I defer to my tenant and I defer to my who who is the operator in this case so I understand what their what their concerns are for making a restaurant work and I also if I may defer to my experts because there may be some ability to limit the variances here but I don't know because we have to balance that with the needs of the operator with the desires of the town to limit to limit variances I think a a balance can be struck but I I will leave it up to my my tenant and my experts so and and Robert will have y all the details on all these variances yes he will I will say the rest of my questions for Robert thank you you're welcome this minut I have a question regarding the uh on that property there is a hully hands that's closed down MH so uh is is there any plan for the Huli hand to reopen again no it will not be open as a hola hands again it will be open as building will be demolished yeah it it'll be it'll be similar in that it'll be a a full service sit down uh American style variety Menu restaurant kind of like aola hands but it's not going to be branded aola hands anymore it's going to be branded Stone Tavern the operator has a restaurant in Clinton Philipsburg he has one operating now and um it's a it's not a it's not a branded restaurant like there's 150 of them around the country so I'm sure he'd like there be 150 restaurants in the future but not yet I'd like to ask you a question about the ownership structure of the land you had pointed out earlier that you and your brother at some point bought the parcel that had become available to you yep and then that was I'm I'm going to say this and I need you to correct me if I'm wrong was incorporated into the entire parcel and then that parcel had undergone a conversion into a condominium type land condominium type structure yeah I'll yes that is correct so far we're okay yep yes so as you look at then the the components that make up the property the operating businesses that will be located there are they free to in some ways share common areas is there a border that is sort of Ironclad that separates the Starbucks from the Stone Tavern from the hotel I'm a little confused about how that condo land condominium operates with respect to the flexibility the businesses have they they share maintenance responsibilities and payment obligations they share uh uh easements for right of way and they also share parking in common but for uh a small check-in area in front of the hotel there's like 10 reserved spaces up front that are just for checkin and a couple of tog go spaces in front of the Hool hands and there'll be a similar situation with the Starbucks relative to I think five or six spaces that are immediately in front of the Starbucks will be similar to the hotel reserve spaces and the to go spaces that are in front of the hoolahan soon to be Stone Tavern okay other than that it's a common it's a common U uh easement that covers the entire property okay thank you Mr chairman if I may please um I've got a question or two about the Hotel MH that's not there um according to the ordinance that's in effect here a restaurant's a permitted conditional use in the HIC Zone only in conjunction with a hotel or motel use must be associated with a hotel mhm as I understand it the hotel plans were approved 5 years ago the preliminary Hotel plans were approved in 1997 it was a homestead Village so some of these plans go back a whole lot of years yep where's the hotel it's not there yeah that's obvious yeah why isn't it there I mean supposedly this restaurant can only be built in conjunction with a hotel there is no Hotel mhm why should we Grant the relief you're looking for well I'm probably going to defer to my planner on that just I'm I'm not trying to pass the buck but I I don't understand the inrees of zoning the way my attorney and my planner do but I know that if there were a a demand for a hotel early on it would have been satisfied also in the case of the homestead Village the um uh it was it was approved during a a boom time for hotels and the hotel was approved and then my my my lovely neighbors stopped me with three years worth of litigation and a town at that point decided Well look M's doing everything he can do we're going to give him his permits and let him build the build the restaurant so thank God they did or I would have been frozen so you referred to the boom that went on in town I think specifically referring to hotels yeah I'm I'm not referring to the town specifically but in general hotels were we're going through a pretty good time back in the late 90s okay and I think that was probably true of bridgew as well in fact there's a number of hotels that were approved some of which are on Route 22 that were never built it seems as though there's an oversupply of Hotel space there's nobody rushing to build hotels so when you tell us there's going to be a hotel in this site I I don't get it I don't buy it I hear you Mr SW can I jump in for a second you said before that there was an understanding the the company that owns the site that the hotel is going to go on what type of understanding is there are you talking about previous back in the 90s or or recently talking about now present oh um I I sold my property for over 2 million bucks to a guy who's in the hotel business and I said look rich you got to tell me what are your intentions I'm going to uh stand in front of a board full of people and you got to let me know what's going on I have to be able to tell him with a straight face what's going on he said I'm going to be under I'm going to be moving on the hotel in four to 6 months there isn't anou there is a contract for him to build this he there was a contract for him to buy me out and he bought me out with a with a site plan approval which I obtained for the change of his brand so we got his brand his brand approval changed he went and paid me a whole lot of money for the property and uh he's locked into doing a hotel thank you what's the flag for the hotel home to Suites by Hilton Mr Smith I just want to clarify that this application is not a D3 application correct has nothing to do with a whether a hotel is built or not it's strictly a D1 variance that is correct Mr oler and the reason for that is the D1 variance is the most extreme form of relief it's the most difficult to get d3s are actually easier rather than try to to Horn this in something that it isn't we're going for the D1 variants to meet our proofs right so Mr Sweeney what they're saying is they're asking for permission approval to construct um the Starbucks with with no regard to whether there's a hotel or not right the ordinance talks about combining a hotel with a restaurant as a conditional use they're not here as a conditional use applicant they're here as a straight D1 not permitted to do it this way under the ordinance give them relief from the township ordinance that required the hotel with the restaurant correct correct so they'll have to prove that the the restaurant is um um you know there's the different proofs under D1 versus D3 so they'll have to show that it's a you know specific there specific reasons for that hotel the uh restaurant and why it works with with or without the hotel okay thank you right any other board questions board professionals questions for Mr Mund I actually do not have any questions thank you Mr chairman all right Mr chairman I also and this is Nick Dickerson here uh I also do not have any questions of this Witness all right and we'll have plenty of time for traffic down the road uh I don't have any questions either Mr all right I'm going to open up to members of the public that have questions on Mr M's testimony please if you could just come on up Mr Mund if you could just yield the D us there briefly if we can just get your name and address please yes uh my name is uh Bill Vin VZ and Victor re uh l n d uh I live at uh a seven Stanford Drive in uh um Bridgewater and uh I do agree agree with you Mr Sweeney I don't see a a need for the hotel there it's 120 uh one room proposed hotel and uh we do seem to have excess of that in in the town um it I believe it was would be like four stories tall and uh would be right in Mr verland this is only questions with respect to his testimony and PS this application is not an application for the hotel okay right they're not looking to make any changes on the hotel what we're asking right now is for questions as to what this gentleman said there'll come a time later after the applicant has completed all their testimony with all their Witnesses where you can come up and give testimony make any statement you you would like to the board okay uh well as far as um um Starbucks goes that would become in my opinion a uh traffic issue but that might not be you know relevant now there'll be traffic testimony later from a traffic engineer and you can ask that engineer traffic questions so right now it's just Mr mun what he said anything you want to question him about and he he talked about the legal structure of the property he talked about some of the the operations so those typ of things that you question on his testimony and at the end after everyone's spoken I'll give you as much time as you want to speak for or against this application okay then I'll uh I'll um wait then all right perfect thank you sir any other members of the public please come on down yeah John Merton 184 Adamsville Road your last name last name is m is a Mary e r t n uh what was the address again 184 Adamsville thank you um it's not clear to me who's the owner of these properties if there's a singular or multiple owners the and the reason I asked that is that later parts of the documents there's a lot of references to who is responsible for certain maintenance and other things of that nature um is it now if it's only if it's only going to be Starbucks is more Starbucks responsible for the maintenance of all the things that are being advocated for or is it going to be them and somebody else where's the ultimate responsibility and and lie good question so Mr M can you identify the owners of the three units and who has maintenance responsibility for what units unit one is owned by Bridgewater realy LLC which is a combination of Charles Mund Eric Mund and Charles Mund senior it's my dad Bridgewater 2 is owned I cannot remember the entity but it's owned by Richard bo johanni uh he's the fell who's the home two sweet franchisee and unit number three which is which is the uh property in question for the current application uh is owned by uh Charles Mund Jr and Eric Mund and you asked a question about the uh the maintenance responsibilities would you like me to elaborate okay um all three units are are going to be uh run by an a condo association which is responsible for the maintenance of and um that maintenance drills all the way down to picking up the litter uh fixing the potholes um repaving the Lots when necessary plowing and that's that's all going to be run by the Condominium Association which each holder of each individual unit is a member of that Condo Association what about snow removal that will be done by the condo association they'll hire a guy he'll Pro we'll probably hire the guy who's there now one so well you only need one so I'm kidding it's currently a fellow who I use in in Hillsboro okay what about the skins of the buildings about the exteriors they're going to be maintained by the uh uh owners of the condominium unit like uh I'm guessing every 10 or 15 years so Starbucks is going to do a a a remodel of the property uh I'm not sure about Mr desiderio who runs the um who will be running the Stone Tavern U but each individual unit owner will be responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of their individual buildings okay but the sidewalks and Paving will be done by the Association that is correct so the the additional clarification I'm asking for is relative to the reports relative to storm water management and the observation reporting of storms that have more than one inch of rain that need to be submitted to the professionals here for review and it says that the owner of the property is responsible for getting somebody named to do those reports so I'm curious as to who is that qualified individual that would be doing that and are you able to answer that that that I know the Condominium Association will be responsible for compliance but I don't know who the individual of the entity is that's going to do that yet so the association will retain someone much like they're going to retain a snowplow contractor right yep okay now there's going to be additional testimony I would imagine by your engineer that's going to talk about storm water management and it's probably going to be in the deed how it's taken care of so I think there'll be a lot more opportunity for that question to come up you're welcome all right I ask another sure sure um again I'm looking at the planning document and it says that uh the minimum lot area is 5 acres and you're talking about 6788 Acres that's just for Starbucks or that's the whole the total the all three condominium units are six and change Acres the um Starbucks itself is about one and a half thank you all right any other members of the public questions you good Rich yep okay thank you Mr chairman I'm going to excuse Mr Mund and then my next witness is lizanne Kyle raise your right hand please you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do would you state your full name for the lanne Kyle and spell your last name please k i l e and Miss Kyle if you would be so kind as to give the board your uh experience and your role in relationship to Starbucks and uh uh your knowledge of the operation of Starbucks so I am a senior store of manager I am a Starbucks employee for almost 18 years this April and my job is to find locations for Starbucks stores and then we get them built and then turn them over to our operators but you're also familiar with the general operation requirements of Starbucks oh I am yes and so um first question then is what directed you to look at this subject property for the location of of the proposed Starbucks so this property was particularly interesting for us because it is on Route 22 and we have a lot of customers that visit us on their way to work on the way home from work at lunchtime uh and it was also a large parcel so since the pandemic as we all know uh there's been a rush to get into the drive-through line and this parcel in particular provides for a very long line so we feel so very confident that uh it will serve customers and our partners which we call ourselves employees um will work in a really good atmosphere because it'll be uh a lot of room for cars to maneuver the site and to service those customers inside as well so why is a drive-through window so critical to Starbucks operation you know the US customer has gotten so used to the convenience of drive-throughs especially since the pandemic um you know it's like touchless way to get a product that you want um and people are just so used to being on their phones in the car answering emails while they Place their order driving up to the window picking it up and being on their way now I'm sure this board is familiar as am I with a lot of Starbucks that are located like in shopping centers without drive-throughs is that the model that Starbucks is now you still pursuing that model or are you moving on to a new mode of business here no it's a new mode okay and this is being driven by customer demand yes um so one other aspect of the proposal is that we have both indoor and outdoor seating as part of this application what is the attraction of having outdoor seating why do you do that so we call ourselves the third place workhome Starbucks uh and people like to come and have meetings they like to connect with friends family they like to sit outside if it's nice out and enjoy a cup of coffee and meet people and just gather together um the other aspect of the application before the board is there are some parking spaces directly in front of the Starbucks they even have like a 5 minute sign on them yes what are those what is that for what are those spaces about so uh we call them mop spaces mobile order and pay so if you have the Starbucks app which I hope everyone here does and they drink Starbucks but there's a coffee for everyone so I got it um but you can order your drink run in pick up your drink and that's like just a quick parking space for you to do so um I do want to go back to the drive-thru just in terms of How It's operating so the proposal before the board tonight will show two lanes that come into a singular point for ordering um can you just describe how does that all work for example the number of cars that you would expect in line how long does it take a customer from order to pick up those kind of questions okay so the y lane is uh a vehicle that we came up with to help circumvent a back up in the Drive-Thru so you can pull into one lane or a second lane and then merge in order um so it's just a way to try to kind of ease the flow um so that we can serve as many customers as as possible in a timely manner and the timing piece of it that you're referring to or asking me about from the point that you order a drink at the uh menu board to pick up is about four minutes and we need that time because it's each ORD is an individual order every have everyone prefers their coffee in a different way so we need that time to create the coffee drink now another aspect is that this is a proposal for a freestanding Starbucks as opposed to something that's attached to another building is there any particular benefit that relates to Starbucks having a freestanding building uh the fact that we can circulate the building better uh versus other having other tenants with us and trying to really not bother anyone else um and with regard to your parking um the parking uh for your patrons who are going to be dining inside or on your outdoor patio um do you normally have that parking located simp similar in a location that you have for this proposal where they would be crossing the drive-thru uh Lane after the uh pickup window we do and have you ever had any issues concerns problems with how that parking and pedestrian circulation Works no it's usually striped for crosswalk plenty of signing um and so from an operational perspective then you don't have any concerns relative to the location of the park okay um now getting back to what Drew you to this particular property um being on Route 22 on a on a hi travel highway is that good bad and different for Starbucks oh it's good and why because of the volume of traffic and why is that because those are potential customers for us so in terms of your customer traffic um do you normally just sort of draw your customers off of the flow of traffic absolutely and just explain a little bit about how that the the psychology of that works for your customers not sure I understand but in terms of why is it what is it hey there's a Starbucks and I need a coffee or do people actually go out of their way to get their Starbucks it's a little bit of both actually um I ask Miss Kyle a question sure um I like probably everybody here I've been to Starbucks at one time or another and I know that it if depending on what order it could take it could take a couple of minutes to get your coffee so I know how most drive-throughs work but are you going to have just one lane can you explain to me how you place the order where you pick it up and how you deal with the cars while they're waiting so the menu board is at car number seven so if you come into the drive-thru let's say it's the y lane and and I think we're going to have a visual later is that right yes a visual later that will help you see the Y piece of it the cars will merge then they'll get to the order board place the order and from there it's four minutes to the window to pick up your drink okay so you could have a couple of people order within that 4minute time frame could order their coffee so the cars could be stacked up there correct stacked from 1 through 7 thank you um in terms of uh your the end you can come up and ask your operation um do you um in terms of if somebody had like a really big order that was in the Drive-Thru do you have a exit way for them to park their car while their order is being prepared and then brought out to them um we usually don't have to do that but if there's an instance where we do we absolutely absolutely well all right um now if you could explain what is it about signage on your freestanding building why is signage important to Starbucks mostly safety reasons and why is that to cue people around in the correct way um and uh in terms of when you say CU people so that people know how to enter into the drive-thru to circulate through the site correct correct all right um and let's uh just go through a little more on terms of of operational questions what are your hours of operation proposed for the location 5:30 to 10 uh Monday through Saturday 6 a.m. to 900 P p.m. on Sunday now um in the times where you are not open for business does Starbucks have any objection if this board were to say hey why don't you reduce your nighttime lighting level after you close oh not at all happy to do so and can you explain to the board how your deliveries operate both in terms of the type of trucks that you get deliveries when they come and how frequent they are and how long they are on the property okay so our deliveries start anytime from 6:00 p.m. through the night to 5:30 a.m. our delivery team or driver has a key to our stores they um deliver by and it really depends on what the site can handle it could be a tractor trailer or could be a box truck and they're there for 30 minutes they unload and they leave those occur daily there you go um they come daily daily and what type of truck again did you say it just depends on what the site can hold but we have flexibility on a box truck so a small truck it's not a 65 fot tractor trailer it could be but it typically isn't anymore the sites are just not big enough okay now in terms of your employment um how how do you many employees do you have between 20 and 25 per store and how many are there at your maximum uh Peak shift so we have three shifts and in each shift is six to eight people um and do you handle your trash and recycling internally in terms of how how you separate that and you follow all the recycling requirements absolutely um and how about your trash and recycling pickup do you control that it's either and I don't know what the lease say Eric I'm sorry it's either we're going to control it by um getting our own firm to come get it two or three times a week or landlord's doing it and I don't recall I'm sorry it's in the lease and there's a lot of leases uh there's either we will contract it as a company as Starbucks or the landlord will do it I just don't recall what the lease says um and just in terms of your food preparation and and uh is there any like cooking that occurs you don't have Fri anything like that none so the you do have like a microwave it's warming it's convection ofen yeah um and uh finally do you have any overnight parking does truck do trucks no no all right um and uh I think Mr chairman I think that's all my direct questions and certainly sure the board will have more oh I'm sure there's going to be some questions members of the board please you mentioned I I think you asked the question about why couldn't you shut the lights off early if you're closing earlier I didn't hear your response it our lights are on timers so as um the evening progresses we close the store the lights go off I thought I read somewhere that the lights were going to be on till like 2: a.m. only there's a secur there's security lights around the building but the store lights will close will turn off okay thank you sure Miss Kyle um how many Starbucks are there with a drive-thru versus without well it depends where you're talking how about here in this New Jersey C Central or New Jersey area yeah um so most of our non- drive-throughs were early uh opening stores meaning first to the market 15 20 years ago and they were aligned with New Jersey Transit stops so as an example if there's a train in Summit we have a store that's in Summit that's not a drive-thru so those early stores that we opened were not drive-throughs because they were associated with New Jersey Transit how many of your are drive-thru versus no drive-thru uh we're moving it really depends on the area but we're mostly drive-thru mostly drive-thru yes in any area I'm sorry in any area mostly MH again those early adopt early stores are cafes We Didn't Start drive-throughs for probably 15 years into our business or so I have a couple questions yeah please um I'm not quoting you but you said uh you like this location because could accommodate a very long line what is a very long line how many cars is in a very long line 11 11 so this this playout can accommodate 11 cars in the line I believe so I think it might be more than 11 that's important yeah do you know the answer well we'll see that our site plan engineer actually has it specked out so you know he put the cars on he has a much more accurate number you also said again not really quoting but you said it's a new mode of business for Starbucks um can you speak to the location that's just further down 22 in Greenbrook yes you manage that site uh I did that site I don't I I don't work it but yes so does that have what you call a very long line no and and what happens when um you have a site like that that doesn't have a very long line what type of operational challenges are you faced with so that's a great question because what we're doing in Starbucks internally is and and some of these things are not actually anything that the customer can see so what we do is actually count steps how many steps it takes to go from the oven to the window so what we're doing is moving all of our equipment in our stores to get closer to the window to reduce the number of steps we are constantly uh engineering new ways to Quicken our process as another example we're issuing gravity fed ice so we typically in stores that are older that haven't been remodeled for the new ice we'd have to go get a pick up a bucket walk to the White Ice spin scoop the ice walk back and dump the ice so you see that's kind of like all that time and effort where it could be making drinks so now we're putting in our stores gravity fed ice we're putting in Faster coffee machines so everything that we're doing since the pandemic because that really heightened our awareness is to Quicken the pace we're really working on it really hard how has that worked out would you say for that green location so that it's gone under a renovation uh and not everything is in that store so we're working as hard as we can I don't know the details of if a line's too long or not long will you be adding Lanes to that location no we can't what happens if um Bridgewater this location if this gets approved and we end up with more than 11 cars in L like you do in green you know but of I've seen [Music] it right what what's the process what's the emergency the stop button shut it down move cars call security what is the process if you get let's say again wait for the accurate testimony how many but if we're saying 11 let's say let's say 25 Tri double it what's the process how you handle so this site is about three times the size of Greenbrook we're going to bigger sites and that's how you solve for it because then we get to queue on site and we don't disturb the outside roads this is an acre and a half and a that is enormous we we so you know as yeah a as we learn things through the pandemic we learn to get bigger sites and better circulation so Green Brook you know if it opened in 2019 it was conceived in 2016 so you see like we just need to catch up and put all the new Innovative you know equipment in the store does green have outdoor SE I don't know I haven't I haven't been there in a bit do you have locations that you worked on that you can talk about that have had outdoor seatings and have this much asphalt with three lanes and a why allc the only other one I can think of is Chesterbrook it's got an enormous line and I bet outdoor seating Chester Chester sorry that's the one in the shopping center yeah thank you you're welcome answer your question um we were talking about number employees and you have three shifts and you said going to be about 25 employees at this location would Greenbrook have the same number and the same setup even though they're smaller they should then why if the Bridgewater one would be a lot bigger and busier wouldn't you have more per shift to move people quicker you know if if we need it will hire I just don't I don't control any of that we just have kind of the standard that we start with 20 to 25 and grow from there so if they ended up a lot busier a year down the road than you expected you would have more employees that move people quick absolutely yeah okay thank you um you're going to have a monument sign and there the required distance is 25 ft you've suggested 8 ft how critical is that that to the business that it be only 8 ft so 22 is a fast road so we'd like that sign out there so that people get used to seeing it in one in turn and and recognize us we really don't want Bridgewater to look like a lot of other towns with all of these signs that are 25 ft tall and wide and lit lit up so we're it's not really something that we're happy to see but we'll go through with the application and we'll see where we wind up but thank you so ask are are you opening new locations without drive-throughs MH and is it just is it the location is it the particular location that's the most attractive part of this property or is it the fact that you can add a drive-through to it would it still be as attractive without a drivethru absolutely not if we do a if we do a cafe it's usually in a mall Mall um and you know other situations where the drive-thru isn't possible but this is a commuter Road and then that's the whole reason for the drive-thru but would the would you still move forward with this project without a drive-through we would not all right Miss Kyle I have a couple questions picking up where Mr Fresco left off I'm kind of a blunt guy I'm just going to say it you know Starbucks is a is a juggernaut uh probably on track to be a trillion dollar company it it's astounding what they've done it's it's it's amazing it makes me proud to be an American but at the same right you're growing incredibly fast um and safety is everything for this board you know how we hand safety is everything for this board I'll say it again safety is everything for this board so we want to be a good partner with you and we want to make sure you succeed and you eventually go on to be that trillion dollar Corporation the one thing that makes me nervous and frankly your traffic engineer your applicant is hired makes me nervous um M Mr Dean he's been front of this board he's been in front of the planning board he's been wrong what happens when your traffic engineer gives testimony and we have the 12th car or the 13th car or the 25th car ends up on Route 22 because it's happening at the Dunkin Donuts right up the road about a mile um at the Somerville property we had nothing to do with that unfortunately what does Starbucks do when your growth and you guys have a long established growth pattern since the 90s it's it's probably top of the S&P 500 what happens when you outgrow the 11 CS or 12 cars whatever that number is what does corporate Starbucks do in this location to relieve the safety issue they've created under rout 22 East so there's additional levelers that we pull U I just can you say that again levelers additional Le levers that we pull um so we talked about the inside changes some of the outside changes that we do is um I don't know if you've ever seen like those handheld like Chick-fil-A absolutely yeah I have three daughters three teenage daughters so I know it well okay so so Chick-fil-A has a handheld ordering mechanism is what I'll call it U we have the same so we go out and we take orders and so we get them into the queue into the ordering method quicker so that really really helped is there something that you would like to stipulate if this Starbucks created a traffic Hazard and our zoning officer sees this we have to call a timeout until you come and Institute these new policies that alleviate because like I said the traffic engineer you've chosen he's been wrong he's been wrong in I I Googled it today he's been wrong in Hillsboro he's been wrong in woff he's been wrong in a million towns and we have our own traffic engineer we're going to refute a lot of what he says but it makes me nervous and as a board as a board chairman safety comes first absolutely us too so absolutely I think Mr chairman if I understand where what it is so uh Miss Kyle is there are there operational standards like if I see the let's make up a number 15th car in Q I will automatically have a person with the what I call the Chick-fil-A system go out to accommodate that and to address circulation so there is no issues relative to a cue that gets out of hand is that something that you could agree to with this board as a condition of an approval that you would Institute as an operational so it's so the answer is yes however we also want our partners to be safe too so we are very sensitive to sending people out and saying you know go and direct traffic we'd rather them make drinks and get people through that does not mean though that we won't do it that's a great answer but I'm telegraphing to you and more to your an attorney yeah okay no matter what comes out of your traffic engineer's mouth I'm inclined not to believe it because I'm a big believer in past performance is indicative of future results and he's been wrong about a million things all right so if we have assurances from Starbucks and we're going to have to codify it somehow we're going to have to write this up that well and that's Mr chairman where I was going in terms of preparing a condition that we can work through with Starbucks relative to operations you have them for your storm water management you have operation manuals for maintenance and stuff it's the same risk yeah it's a safety risk right right and and and I think what we're hearing Miss Kyle is that something that we could work cooperatively with the board to provide the board with assurance that operationally we're going to do what we everything we can to make sure that it is an efficient operation that does not impair safety because we we have no say once you're approved and up and running we're out of the equation we have no way to kind of come back and say this didn't work your traffic engineer was indeed wrong and here we are we've got a mess well you have conditions Mr chairman and that's that's reason you put the condition in you do but those are hard to enforce yeah I understand and you know that unless you for you know another variant you know better than anyone it's it's tough to enforce so that that's where I'm at in this case and we want to be good partners and and we're EXC excited about having you in Bridgewater we think it's wonderful but you know we don't want to be like and I hate to associate you with Dunkin Donuts but they have a traffic problem because of their drive-thru and I want to make sure that that doesn't harm the neighborhood I'm not familiar with that but thank you thank you Mr Smith assuming that this doesn't conclude tonight at the next hearing assumption Mr ol so at the next hearing maybe you know you can give some thought to to what that operation would be m all right any other board questions I just have one question for you in your sure it's kulak k l a k first name John um in the experience that you're you've had with these drive up operations that Starbucks has been rolling out as part of the new um store footprint if you will have you had occasion to shut down traffic when it gets too long you know like no more drive-thru people can pull in we have done it um we haven't it's not a regular thing though because we're getting better and quicker right faster U more efficient and that's where we spend a 100% of our time in Seattle talking about no I understand that I'm just asking if in the as you have had the EXP experience of these drive-throughs if you've had occasion just to say let's take a pause here we have and how do you do that uh we go outside and ask the next customer in the car to kindly come in and place their order okay most people do that I mean they you know it's not raining most people will park and come in if the line's too long believe it or not I I believe that oh I said if it's if it's raining most people will park and come in yes okay I mean if it's raining and they're going to stay in line I understand what you're saying what I meant what is if the line was too long they would park and come in thank you you're welcome all right board professionals questions so I know we're still Rob well I'm sure we'll go into the access and all the details of the design but um first can you talk about obviously there's going to be a hotel next door and another restaurant typically how much of your business is walk up do you anticipate anybody any customers coming from the hotel or from the other restaurant or just walking up or biking up to the site in general from the hotel hotels usually have and I'm not familiar with the brand but they sometimes have restaurants uh that serve breakfast like the Courtyard Marriott that I'm staying in has a Starbucks there with um coffee and food so I'll have breakfast there if they don't we may get a few customers coming over but it's not it's not like a stream of people walking and the and the rest opens probably later than we do our our prime time is early morning I'll leave commentary for later um to move on how do you H is all or how much of your ordering is done by by an app on your phone versus just somebody saying their order through a speaker can you talk a little about how orders are typically placed is it app based where you just pull up and say I'm I'm order number 62b and just drive past the window how does typically how does that work about 60% of our customers order on their phone and they walk in and the rest are on the Align so specific to the drive-thru then are the people that are driving in ordering on their phones or the drive-thru was your typical talk to a speaker that's the talk through the speaker yeah and then my and I know you have we haven't seen the details of the site plan but the way the site plan set up there's a right in driveway it's essentially dedicated to the Starbucks the way the plan's laid out how important is that to your business model do you need to have a drive a driveway into the site right in front of your building do you can it be routed somewhere else on the site well I think the convenience for customers coming off a 22 would matter to them and then you know coming right off of 22 making a right-hand turn into our site would be most important to them otherwise you'd have to circulate the the building to get into the drivethru well and again I'm sure Rob will show a the site plan but there is another driveway further east that serves the restaurant and the hotel where you can get into the property as well do you think do you think that having it the driveway in front of the starbu building specifically versus somewhere else on the site makes a difference so you're talking about the the point of Ingress from Route 22 yes yeah we'd like to have that those are my questions Mr CH I have a couple questions Mr chairman Miss Kyle um you had mentioned your hours of operation closing time was 10 p.m. Monday through Saturday 900 p.m. Sundays yes and you mentioned that you would agree to a condition or potential condition where you extinguish the lights shortly thereafter my question is you you also had mentioned security lighting needing to stay on after hours can you just give us a little more information on what that entails security lights just lights that are on the corner of the building so they're exterior yes or they interior as well they're exterior exterior and they're are they more dimly lit typically than the lights that are on when business is open yes oh yes okay I I don't know much more than that though I'm sorry we'll hear more about that I just wanted from your perspective what's that b r r sure so um 20 to 25 employees operating at three shifts 6 to8 employees typically at a time where do they typically Park on site are you going to have specific employee parking areas or will it just be wherever they no we usually ask our um employees to park in the rear of the site so that we leave the primary parking for customers so in this case would it be the double stacked parking lot parallel to Morgan Lane further from the further absolutely um the deliveries and loading operations you mentioned typically that's overnight hours anywhere from I think did you say 6 p.m. to 5:30 but you mentioned that will occur on a daily basis our deliveries once daily or could there be a scenario where you have three four five trucks overnight coming through one time one truck either a box truck or something larger but typically one delivery per day correct and is it always one daily or could there be days where there's no deliveries um in instances where it's more rural it's not once a day it's twice a week okay bigger deliveries on this site you would Envision day yeah once um we haven't we haven't really weighted into the signage package but um early on we got a summary of some of the variance relief that you're seeking and there are a number related to signage which we'll hear about but just a general I guess from your perspective from a corporate perspective there are in excess of freestanding as well as facade signs being proposed in your opinion are they absolutely essential the way it's laid out right now from a corporate perspective is there any is there any wiggle room there there is so in essence again we want to provide Direction on how to circulate the site we want safety is a huge concern for us as well um we'd like to say thank you thank you sign at the end of the drive-thru but we do have flexibility okay very good Mr chairman I think that's all I had right now thank you thank you Mr bur members of the public you had a question come on up neighbor if we could just get get your name and address I am on Adamsville Road and this is my first zoning board meeting hi and your name again and my name is Tina neighbor can you spell your last name I'm just going to go with neighbor today um I just would like to point out that I also have young children I'm very concerned about the traffic congestion coming in especially school buses go on 22 um leaving Adamsville going on 22 so that's a concern for me also I'd like the um board to address how if um the the service time is 4 minutes and you're waiting in line how is the board going to address that Starbucks is not going to be considering the state of New Jersey law for no idling for more than 3 minutes and also in Hillsboro the drive-through strabucks has many more than 10 cars and that's a single Lane Highway 206 versus multilan question for their traffic 22 okay so thank you very much this was fun enjoyed it and thanks for having us we're you know we live here and uh we appreciate you guys listening to us if this continues to another day I'm bringing more friends by the way just so you know got it any other members of the public have questions on Miss Kyle's testimony all right seen none back to you Mr Smith raise your writing yes you solemly swear that the testimony you will give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you gu do and your full name please it's a Robert mosell that's spelled m o c h l l o and my business address is 265 Main Street Gladstone New Jersey you've testified before this board before recently correct I've appeared before this board and the planning board in Bridgewater Township all right good to see you again Mr Mello thank you Mr chairman so Mr chair as long as his license is in good standing yes the board accepts him and this is coming in as an architect or design layout expert civil engineer civil engineer all right excellent all right all right okay so Mr Michelle in knowledge of right so we're going to get a little just before I get to my exhibits a little bit of background um I've been involved with this property since 2018 we did the original site plan application that came in for the um revised Hotel layout on the rear of the property and the GD school that was going to be on this lot in the front of the property um so we worked on that application we went through the approval process um and we um and we were part of that um design when it was approved then um we've since been involved with the um property owner in looking at this front parcel and changing it into the Starbucks that you'll see before you this evening when we present that um and we've worked through and we've been working through the details with them on that as well so and you are then the site plan design engineer of record for yes I am so great so without without further Ado I have a number of exhibits I'll go through this evening and present to the board and I'll put them up over there to start I think I can do it with the with the laser pointer I think will be fun and if you can just remember people are watching at home on YouTube so when you talk to an exhibit maybe reference the exhibit have to Market and then kind of give a lay of the land where you're at in the exhibit so people that don't have it maybe in front of them can kind of get a understanding try yep and we got to get you a handheld microphone so let's mark that first one A1 please um A1 for the record and it's it's entitled neighborhood aerial exhibit and it's dated February 27th 2024 testing testing great Mr michella would you give me that date on that plan again please it's a February 27th 2024 thank you give me a moment to move my paperwork take your time so what I want to start off with here is the um what I have is the 2021 um State aerial just to kind of give a reference to the property location and the surrounding neighborhood um that that is around the property site so um North being up on the plan you've we' got Route 22 East and West um basically in an East and West Direction that's on the top of the plan sheet here you can see the the the divided highway um to the West you have um Adamsville Road that's shown here on the plan to the South down here at the bottom you've got Union Avenue okay and then you have um Morgan Lane which is just to the east of the site which comes into Route 22 and then further to the east you have finer Avenue and then just off to the top of the page here you got the 287 um interchange so the property itself and and Mr um Smith talked about this early on that it actually was condo out and it's actually one lot now but this is the original lot configuration that was part of the original property it was actually Four lots that were originally there and it was total 6. um 788 Acres of total area and that would that would have included these four individual Lots lot six lot 7.01 lot 10 and lot 11 but since then it's been converted into a single lot lot 6.01 and into three um condo units which I'll show you on a a later exhibit um but that this is the outline of the property in yellow sh shown on the plan here it is in your hiic your Highway interchange um commercial Zone which basically runs from Adamsville Road along 22 East to um fer to past Morgan to Fern Avenue and it's it's comprised of our property plus some additional properties that front on 22 um this is the former daed insight to the West um you have the Mercedes-Benz dealership and you have two our East um a car um repair I think it's a it's a muffler um minia repair shop and then to the south of the property you've got existing residential um uses that are on Stanford Drive as well as single family residential on Morgan Lane so moving on to my next exhibit and we'll call this A2 for the record and this is entitled aerial exhibit A2 and it's also dated February 27th 24 2024 would you also put today's date on both of those 27 24 I marked it on both of them what we're looking at here is just a zoomed in version of that aerial plan just to give reference to what's on the existing property today and some of the existing improvements that are there this is again from the 2020 2021 State Aerials so it's a couple years old now um in terms of what in terms of the the property but nonetheless so 22 is along the top of the plan here um the property is outlin in yellow again this this shows the older lock configuration but again the overall track boundary excuse me it's outlin in yellow and it's 6.78 eight ACR you have coming off of Route 22 you have a right in and right out access from 22 that's the main access into the property that exists there today you come in and that serviced the existing restaurant pad site which was the holah hands which is now being changed over to the U I'm sorry Stone Tavern um and it's currently under Renovations as we speak um and that's that's the existing building here um and then there's actually additional parking in the back of the site that was constructed and the parking just basically dead ends right here it was built that you know again with the intention of completing what was supposed to be the hotel at the time when the original hoola hands was built but that wasn't done in this back green grass area here and then we have access that goes out to Morgan Lane and that access out to Morgan Lane is actually and you can kind of see it here there's kind of a curve to it it's actually a left turn only to Morgan Lane to go back to 22 and if you're coming off of 22 down Morgan Lane it's a right turn in only so it's a right only in and a left turn only out on to Morgan Lane and that's existing um that's there today and we'll talk more about that in the application um in terms of that restriction and how that's going to remain that way but that's what exists today out onto Morgan lane and then we have the existing lot in the front here which is which is condo unit um three as we talked about which is about one and a half acres of land um and this is the lot that was originally that was I think about 15 20 years ago there was an ice cream shop here it actually had its own access you could see it on the plan here from Route 22 there was an access Drive um here right about in the middle of the lot and there was an access Drive off of Morgan Lane as well into this property it had its own access it was not accessed excuse me via the hoolahan site or the back driveway from Morgan Lane because it was not part of that property originally as Mr mun pointed out he purchased this just a couple years ago so it was not originally part of any of these improvements um so there are two driveway cuts that were that exist out there today they're still there they have they actually I shouldn't say that this driveway cut is still there the driveway cut on 22 has actually been repl placed with when you see the the plan the new slip ramp or slip slip drive that comes in off of 22 and I show you the proposed plan that's actually been part of that's been constructed already as part of the DOT permit that was issued for the site and then also the construction of the hotel site as Mr M pointed out did oh sure the the construction of the hotel site as Mr mun pointed out did get started um there was some excavation that occurred there um Sil fence fencing was put up um things of that nature um but it's kind of it's basically installed at the moment till they get their building permits from our understanding but this construction was started on this back portion of the site here and the dot Improvement was put in off of of off of 22 yes so this will be labeled A3 for the record site plan rendering dated February 27th 2024 so just to give a little context to the plan first before I get into the um the details of of the application this evening so to reorient um this plan's actually turned around Route 22 is on the bottom of the plan for reference purposes Morgan Lane is on the the left side of the plan or the east side of the plan and then the north arrows facing this way as you can see here down towards the um towards the the floor um we've actually just kind of grayed back or or shaded the ex the um improvements associated with the hotel and the hoola hands for the purposes of discussing the Starbucks this evening but I do want to take a moment just to just to point out that you know here's our access off of 22 a right in right out access you come into the site you've got the parking for the Hol hands or not the Hol hands the new Stone Tavern Restaurant and then behind that is the hotel site that you see here on the plan that that's just that's faded back but that's the 121 room hotel and Associated parking um and access around that um that that area of the hotel building and that was and that was The Proposal that was in that was approved back in 2019 yeah so just to point that out yes these are there's some existing parking spaces back here that we going to remain we need to do some trenching through the parking lot so there's some different Shades of Gray here but generally speaking the parking back here was going to remain now to the point of before I get into the Starbucks we talked about the condo limit lines there's three condos on the property um and there's a couple blue lines on here you can see this blue line that goes across basically almost the middle of the page that blue line separates the hotel condo which is unit two from the rest of the property and then there's a blue line that goes down basically to the bottom of the page here just to the uh right of the Starbucks that condo line separates the Starbucks lot which is condo unit 3 from the from the restaurant lot which is condo unit one so basically it's it's a large condo unit in the back which is the hotel unit two unit one is the lower right hand side of the page here which is the restaurant and then unit three is basically that remaining one and a half acres of land that was that original lot 7even that is now going to be the Starbucks um location so that's how the condo unit lines are are split up on the property and really that just comes down to how the the the um the underlying um condo uses are but you have multiple access agreements in the master deed that allow people to park across the site and access the site from from different locations so Starbucks doesn't just have to Starbucks is not relegated to just coming in off of 22 you can access Starbucks from 22 at the other entrance or even from a right turn in from Morgan Lane so you have that ability to access the site from multiple locations um so in terms terms of tonight's application we're talking about that condo unit 3 or or the acre and a half parcel which is which is representing the Starbucks and I think to just talk about the access for a moment before I get into the layout of the um of the building itself and and and and the site specific components of the Starbucks I mentioned there were three access points into the property we have the access off of 22 which is a right in and right out that's the first access you'll see when you're traveling 22 East okay there's actually an identification sign that location there for the uh existing site and then we act we had gotten another access approved which was which was um essentially not quite centered on the on the condo unit 3 lot which was an a right in only off of 22 for Access into the um what was the GED property at the time or the GED school we had this access approved for that and it and as I mentioned it's actually it's part of it's been built already but this access is now is approved for Access into the Starbucks parcel we also have internal access from the restaurant property um where you can drive across the front of the restaurant and access the Starbucks parcel so if I come in off of 22 I can make a left and drive down the drive lane here to access the Starbucks parcel okay I can come in off of 22 and make a right or a left to access the parcel and if I happen to miss both this entrance and this entrance I can make a right onto Morgan I can come down Morgan Lane and I can turn right into the property and come in the backside of the Starbucks into the into the lot as well so there's three ways to access the property um for for purposes of getting into this getting into the site and that holds true even if I wanted to go to the hotel and if I missed this main entrance I could come in off of 22 and drive around to the hotel I'm not restricted based on the based on the internal access agreements of of the property to do that as you're pointing out the access um points that you were describing could you show us with each one of those if you were to get off of 22 access the property in any way how you pull into the drive up window yeah I'm I'm getting to to once you get into the site how you how you going to circulate around the uh around the property um so we have the act the access points as I mentioned into the property I can come in the back the front or even I can come in the side over here the the layout for the Starbucks parcel is generally the same as when we had the G at school we had parking along Morgan Lane a double loaded parking lot a double loaded parking with a 24- foot drive lane and we had parking in front of The Goddard School itself basically what we did was we swapped out the godded school for the Starbucks certainly the Starbucks building is much smaller the GD was about 10,000 square feet in size Starbucks is only 2,4 actually 69 square feet we say 2466 but we were all we Mis typed the six so it's 2469 Square ft single story building um much smaller than than the um than than than the gdd school it's also a lot shorter The Goddard was was much larger here this one's much shorter and because it's shorter that gives us the ability to provide the room for the drive-through Lanes so the idea was the building is generally located in the same place the setbacks from 22 and I'll get into all the variances later on are generally similar in terms of the building setbacks both from 22 and Morgan Lane um but the building is of course a lot smaller around the building is a is a patio area um outside the building building there is um outdoor seating both covered and uncovered you'll see that on the architecturals and the and the renderings um but the main entrance basically faces Route 22 the drive-thru is on the east side of the building on the rear of the building there's an employee um exit entrance that that's going to be used to access the the trash area and then there's also another door on the western side of the building for access to the um patio area so when I come in off of 22 whether I come in at the first entrance the first 22 entrance or I coming off the second 22 entrance um the drive-thru is set up with and this is what um this is what lazette was talking about in terms of this y configuration so you have basically two lanes that come in there's a lane closest to the building and then a second lane they're both 12 foot wide there's an island down the middle of this of these uh of this of this um double lane that divides it and when you get to the tip here you merge together into one lane once you merge the order board or menu board is in the back of the property here you have a um overhead um menu board um with I'm sorry side menu board with a display board um with the microphone where you place your order and then you would wait and Quee around the turn till you get to the side of the building where You' pick up your order once you pick up your order you're going to drive another 30 40 feet to the um Road here where you would then turn and depending on which way you want to exit the property you could make a right hand turn and go down this way to the back and then make your left hand turn out of left hand turn out of Morgan and go down to 22 you can also make a leftand turn and go back across the front and go back out to 22 that way so you have the option of going either way um depending on how people will depending their own preferences on where they want to merge back on they may go out to Morgan or they may go back out to 22 but they have the option of either one um in terms of the size of the the drive-thru and the stacking because there was some questions about how many cars can fit in this in this y configuration drive-thru that we have here um and basically when you start measuring from the pickup window on the side of the building and I'm I'm going to exclude the distance to the Stop Bar because that's the car that's going to be leaving I'm not going to count that once they they leave from this pickup window on the side of the building around the back and through the double stacked Lanes um depending on the size of the vehicles you can have anywhere between 17 and 20 cars in that queue in total you got some bigger vehicles Les it's closer to 17 some smaller compacts you'll get 20 into that into that stacking okay and that's measured from when you enter the drive-through Lanes here to the drive-through window on the building um which is a which is a nice long u-shaped route to get to that to get to that drive-thru um and because as we as was mentioned we have an acre and a half of land here that gives us the opportunity to have this longer drive-thru on the property you're also going to notice there's another Lane here that goes around that drive-thru we call that the bypass lane um it's it's it's just a third lane that for a couple things number one it it's for access to the trash enclosure in the back here for the Starbucks so sorry so you know coming out of the back of the building here there's a sidewalk that goes across the drive aisles and accesses the trash enclosure in the back here um that's for of course for the trash for the building um we have a bi we have what we call a bypass lane that can access that trash enclosure Plus allow if someone's waiting in line here and they decide that they don't want to place their order after waiting in line they can pull out into the byass lane and leave also too that gives the the folks at Starbucks the opportunity where if someone does place a very large order at the um kiosk or the the menu board they could tell them instead of waiting in line they may want to pull out and go park their car and be able to wait and come in and pick up that order as opposed to waiting in in the drive-through Lane which could hold up other people from placing their their order as well well so that gives them the opportunity to pull out and do that um and have that flexibility with the with the bypass lane just really quickly in reference to that so when you come out you you receive your order you continue down toward 22 got your your beverage you are either going to make a right and then Circle back to um Morgan or can you make a left and then another left and take that bypass exit back out like if somebody says doesn't make a right can you make a left and use that as yes so you're what you're saying if I understand this correctly so I'm I'm here I got my drink coffee whatever it is I'm I'm drinking um and I get to this Stop Bar and I make I make a I can make a left I can come across the front here and yes I can go through the bypass lane it's a bypass lane go back out here and then make a right and then go make a left and go back out onto Morgan Lane yes you you could do that there there Lan travel it's a free lane of travel correct um and and but they also as I mentioned before continue along the front and go back out to 22 as well so there's M multiple options for circulation on the on the property around the building you're not you're not limited to just one way in and one way out in in this particular can you exit on the north side of the property in that Center entry point or you can only enter there this this slip ramp here this slip ramp is enter enter only from 22 thank you and that was part of the DOT permit that we got for it originally was it's it's it's it's enter only one lane one lane it's actually it's actually it's actually um 18 ft wide but it's really only one lane it's designed to be one lane so we have a 12ft lane plus a striped area just so you have a little bit of extra maneuverability um but it is just one lane and and we looked at it as being that secondary means of of of Entry um even when we were doing for the Godard school if someone were to miss that first entrance on 22 they have the second one to come in um and they'll see it and and I think there was a question question about the signage I don't want to get ahead of myself but the main um entry sign is right here on the plan just to the um west of that entry drive and this is where we were asking for the variance for the setback because if we put it 25 feet back it's it's going to be set pretty far back from the RightWay and you want to be able to see that sign as you come down 22 and get closer to this entrance how to how high is it's not very high at all it's actually um only a couple feet high I have the detail on my plan here if just give me a second I will show that to you but it's not it's not a a pylon sign that you would think that would be really tall it's only um uh six foot high off the ground thank you yep but I I have a question if you are accessing the property from I guess the hotel side or the restaurant side you come in through the entrance on Route 22 and then you you go across to the left and then you go into the Starbucks property are you able to go straight across like in front of the building or are you forced to go toward the back no so I if if I come in from 22 I get to this I'll call it a four-way intersection but it's really it's really a a three-way to a certain extent um I can make a left-hand turn and drive across the entire Frontage of the property I'm not restricted by any any one-way traffic or anything like that okay so theoretically if if the um drive-thru Lane backs up you could have people coming in on both sides toward the drive-thru the start of it in theory if the drive-through Lane were to be completely full to this point right here okay you could have you could have cars that would basically stack inside the property inside the site here now if someone comes in off of 22 and they see this line backed up they could they can come in off of 22 here they could loop around the entire property internally and get online for the for the drive-thru they would have that ability to do that but they can also just pull into one of the parking spaces and go into and go into the uh to the building at that point but we have we have the ability that because of the the the way this is align aligned or designed you could have you could have a little bit of spill over into the parking lot and it would not be spilling directly onto Route 22 I think there was a mention of the Dunkin Donuts that was just down the road that actually is really close to 22 and the drive-thru is close to 22 so you don't have that ability to stack vehicles um like you do here internal to the site we would think and and and hope that if if I'm a customer coming off at 22 I get to this Stop Bar and I look to my right and this driveway this this drive-through is completely full to that point I see there's going to be 20 cars in there I'm going to go park my car and go in and get get my get my drink or come back at another time this is my you haven't met my 17-year-old driver who gets Starbucks every morning but you know all kiding the side I I I I disagree with you and I'm sure we're going to have dueling Traffic Engineers put that on the record and you're not a traffic ERT that's correct I'm just talking about circulation internally so I I will defer to a traffic expert thank you I do have a 17-year-old daughter who does the same thing absolutely and if it's raining she's not getting out of the car and she's going to sit there and she's probably going to sit in Route 22 so that's the danger and that's the safety issue that I brought up again and and as we look at it that's why we we that's why we we we like the fact that we have this large area here to stack cars and have that ability to stack 20 cars um on the property and and again that that's from an operational perspective that's why we designed it the the way way we did I understand your point of view about okay what happens if we get 30 cars mhm you know from that regard and that's the issue and you keep going back to it what if how do we come back and fix it if there's a problem listen I want a Starbucks I think everybody in the room loves Starbucks but what happens if that 21st car causes an accident on rear 22 East where cars regularly go 80 90 100 miles an hour and three pedestrians were killed in the last 5 years so that's something you have to ask yourself and we can make jokes all want that's life and death and I understand completely and and that's why we have this this we have this buffer here or this ramp before you get to the actual internal circulation and I and I understand your your concerns about that but it gives us that extra buffer if you will where cars are going to come here and actually come to a stop before they come into the site as opposed to a drive-thru that may just start on the highway itself so um I know I'm not a designer so what about an electronic gate that once you hit the maximum capacity for cars in the in the lane that you just drop a gate and people have to go somewhere else walkk on the side or whatever I mean that hasn't I I've not thought of that but suggestion we will think about okay because I I've never seen it before but maybe there's a maybe there's a way where that you know maybe there's a way to put a sign a light that closes the drive-thru or something a red or something red and green light that says go stop whatever all right drivethru closed I mean we can we can we can certainly it's something to think about okay thank you we'll be back so trust me this is all right so um I have a question so after the 17 to 20 cars in the Drive-Thru queue how many cars can fit I I would say from the entrance on Route 22 to the start of the drive-thru this is just uh just anecdotally because I haven't measured it but this is about the distance from The Edge I'm going to measure from the the curb line or the edge of the travel of 22 not the shoulder itself because you could theoretically have people parked in the shoulder but I'm not going to measure that just this distance here is about 60 70 feet so you can get three maybe four cars depending on the size of the vehicles in in this area here and if you were to have that circuitous turn to go into the drivethru let's say they decided to block the drive lane for all intensive purposes you could probably get another two to three cars across here so I'll say five to seven cars roughly that would back up this entire lanee before you actually get out to uh to 22 so 17 to 20 in in in the queue plus another five to seven before you get to 22 than assuming they do this and go out that way and don't stack into the site and uh can you just address the on-site parking yeah so we were talking about circulation but again based on the size of the Starbucks it requires 24 parking spaces um for this particular site based on the layout we have we have 34 spaces available to the Starbucks to park um again there's there's seven AC seven across the front of the building two of those are Ada accessible there are three F minute parking spaces that were talked about previously um where people can pull in um run in pick up their drink pull out and go two regular spaces in the front here and then the rest are on the side there's 16 parallel to Morgan and then 11 on the other side of the drive lane um for 27 spaces that are on the east side of the plan here for for patrons to park and come into the building are you proposing any EV spaces um actually we we are going to have at least one EV charger on the site it wasn't on the site plans there was an EV charger on the hotel building and there was an EV charger on the garded plan but for whatever reason it didn't get carried through to the Starbucks plan so under the under the requirement for this parking lot that's being modified you need to have one EV charger for the site for right now so we'll we'll have that we'll have that shown on the plan it's a requirement of of of the state um code to have that um and and and then if there's more in the future you know that would get added by by by Starbucks um so in terms of parking there there's additional available parking spaces beyond what the requirement is for the building itself which is a which is 20 spaces um and then there's also the the the overall site just to look at some of the overall parking numbers on the site just for reference purposes you had the exist the uh the site itself only required um just to get the number right here 246 parking spaces that is for the hotel the restaurant and for what the Starbucks use would be and there's going to be a total of 293 spaces so the site's overp parked by by a certain number of spaces um which if there's any spill over for parking they could park cars could park back here to get to the Starbucks um as well if there's the need for it but we don't anticipate that given the um the amount of parking that the building requires based on the design standards I know there was a question question in in in one of the review letters I think it might have been Mr Fishinger letter about access to The Pedestrian access to the hotel um and what we we we didn't we we we didn't realize that and we laid it out that we have this back sidewalk here to the um trash enclosure and then thinking about the hotel use where people who are staying at the hotel may want to go to Starbucks to to get to get a drink um or get their coffee so what we're going to look to do is provide a connecting sidewalk from the back here um to the uh sidewalk that's around the hotel so you'll be able to walk to the Starbucks um should you wish to to go there um we didn't see the the need to connect the the uh restaurant to the Starbucks re um again from a use perspective that they usually you know if you're at the restaurant you're not usually going to the Starbucks um so those are those are separate but from the Starbucks to the hotel we wanted that we want to get that connectivity um that was mentioned in the letter so we felt that'd be good to add that sidewalk um to the plan and back here is where it would logically connect to the sidewalk for the hotel building that trash enclosure is that the 8ot fence trash enclosure no that trash enclosure only has a six foot high fence the 8ft fence which actually is not part of this application it's it's uh where am I yeah there's actually the trash enclosure for the hotel was originally back here and because there was some concern from the the residents about the trash being back here we moved it over here but this this fence around this trash enclosure is not 8T high this is only a 6ot high fence the 8ft high fence is on top of the retaining wall on the back here to screen the parking area for for the hotel and there's actually an 8 foot high fence along the rear property line as well so that's what that fence was part of it wasn't part of the the Starbucks but it's on the plans because it's part of the site plan the existing fence along that property is going to be removed based on what you have on the drawing right along the no the the existing fence back here no no along this uh Starbucks prop uh unit there is an existing fence that is show as being removed yeah there's an existing chain fence it's not chain I think might be wood fence along here that's actually going to be removed that overgrown with vegetation that's going to be taken out we're going to be putting a landscape planting across here to um to provide some some you know enhancement of that area and take that overgrown fence down that's that's um no longer needed there because originally that fence was put up because this was a separate parcel owned by separate people that's why the fence was there is there I have a question Landscaping you want to just go ahead and describe because this also shows your landscape plan correct Mr Smith if we could take a break because Landscaping is a a big issue for this board and and we'll talk about it more in depth and we can spend the proper time on it so let's let's take a break it's 902 let's reconvening 915 if that's all right thank you need my BL all right it's 9:17 we're going to reconvene Roger get a roll call please here here y here here here here here all right Mr Smith um before we pick up with Mr michelo I wanted to clean up one issue we had on a Fire Marshall letter from February 20th 2024 and I just want to make sure that you have that in your possession yes we do and you agree to everything that he said Fire Marshall the that was the ACT style it's working yes the the fire marshal letter talked about a couple different items um one was access around the building we based on the layout we we feel that because of the double lane here and the backside here we have a full 24t access around the uh around the the build now I I wouldn't think the fir truck would drive down the the drive-through Lane but he can certainly go back out this way well if you have 22 cars in your drive-through Lane he's not driving through your drive-through Lane in in theory yes but then if there's 22 cars through there hopefully the building's not um in an issue where we need to get the fire truck that close to the building so it it sounds like you accept this letter and you have no problem with it and you understand what they've asked of you yes there's also a KNX I think there was a knoxx Knox Box and that's standard there was one comment about and I'll have to clarify this with Mr Scalera because it's he's talked about a fire department connection but there's no sprinkler on this building so he wanted a fire department connection ongan but it's not sprinkler because I you know from from a design perspective so why don't we just Asis this and you're going to come back to it at the March 12th meeting we'll talk about a little bit more Mr SC we will have that discussion perfect now that I've put that on the record conferring with a few of the board members actually most of the board members this drivethru is an issue for many of the members and and obviously safety we all Echo those sentiments I'm just wondering and Mr Michelle you can answer this however you please you know I'm curious whenever this was drawn up a year ago six months ago you know 5 years ago I'm wondering did you draw up this rendering this plan based off of potentially utilizing some of the Gard School planning board 2019 approvals now that they're off the table I'm wondering if there's a way that you could be more creative and fit more cars and the Genesis of of this for me is if you look at Starbucks as an entity for a moment and you know their growth they ipoed in the early 90s they've essentially had 35 ibida 35% iida growth 15% bottom line growth which is like I said it's a juggernaut I'm not saying that Revenue growth translates to traffic growth and I'm I'm sure that would be an interesting study but at some point this company is growing so fast and and and so immensely 10 years from now 20 years from now I just don't think these cars all fit you are in the prime location and we understand why you want to be there I'm curious if you would like to take between this meeting and March 12th to maybe take another stab at this now that you know that many board members are concerned and no is an acceptable answer you want to pursue and go forward with your existing rendering but I'm just curious if you take the 2019 planning board approvals for The Goddard School just take them out you're a creative firm you guys designed wonderful things from schools to stadiums I think you could do better I can tell you one thing Mr chairman that I do know and I'm sure Mr michella will agree if we made these types of modifications it may create new variances because I think one thing as I'm looking at it is just one obvious is if the closer you put the building to Morgan Lane the greater you capacity you're going to get in your drive-thru but that's going to that's going to create a variance so I just I'm just letting the board know that we'll certainly look at it but in looking at it you know I'm a big believer that when you have talented people in the room good things happen you have Gladstone design they're talented people you've got the best Engineers you got a talented attorney I think good things can happen here now yeah you certainly can take the next 40 minutes and talk about this plan all you want but like I said I just want to to transmit to you that the board is is concerned about no we we we hear you loud and clear we hear the rest of the board we understand this this is why we're probably going to be at least two plus hearings as we go through this and the plan evolves all right I just wanted to put that on the record thank you understood that absolutely so then if I may then Mr Michelle you still under oath yes all right we are back on the record and uh we were just beginning your discussion regarding the Landscaping plan um and again given the hour we will have Mr Michelle complete his direct testimony to the extent possible and then he will continue at the next meeting perfect okay so to just talk about the Landscaping on the property and and the numbers that I'm going to talk about here are holistic for the entire site we didn't break the Landscaping down separately for the Starbucks because when you look at when we looked at the waivers and the way the re uh rules were applied the Landscaping was for the entire property so just I want to just go through some of the num I'll go through some of the numbers in a moment but just to describe the on-site Landscaping that that's here for the property um and and some of this um was carried forward from the prior application because it was part of the design when we met with the the prior planner and went through the Landscaping a lot of these features were what was talked about in terms of the the screening and and there's a couple things here that I want to point out for the landscaping and this goes back to some of the existing Landscaping first that's in front of the hoola hands there is an existing storm water basin that's in front of the the the hola hands or the the the um Stone Point Tavern um and and and that Basin had actually two um pretty thick hedge rows that went around it um and what we looked to do and it's not shown on this plan here but there's a hedg row that's in between these Street trees that we proposed here we wanted to continue that that hedge row with this double row of shrubs all the way around all along the frontage of Route 22 to continue that look along 22 and then we were going to turn that look and bring it all the way down Morgan Lane and that actually continued on the other side of the entry exit drive to the back of the property so that that double row of of of shrub massing was something that was started on the restaurant property and we continued it all the way around the front of the site um on the pro on the site and then also we incorporated a third row of of shrubs right up against the parking lot as well that was requested that's also because there's a row of shrubs on this portion of the site too in front of the existing parking spaces we continued that along the frontage of the building and along Morgan Lane as well basically creating almost a triple row of of shrub massing broken up only by the uh the storm water facilities in the front of the site um on top of that we also have shrub shrub massing around the perimeter of the building itself to break up the patio area from the drive-thru and and and the back of the building as well from the drive-through Lanes also to separate the drive-through from the parking area we have some shrub massing there um as well as around the back portion of the site and then that shrub massing and and Evergreen plantings continue around the rest of the property for the hotel and for the um the restaurant site um all told in terms of the numbers that are required for your ordinance again this was based on a overall site number the the the required number of um trees that are required on the site were 110 based on the amount of disturbed area we only have 25 that compli for that requirement so that we were asking for a waiver on from 110 trees that were required and we only had 25 those are just regular shade trees that were dispersed throughout the site um and 110 were required and 25 were proposed the number of parking lot um trees that were required inside of the parking lot those are trees that would be adjacent to the parking lots themselves um or parking lot shade trees your ordinance required 29 then we had 29 to comply with that requirement in terms of what we'll call the transitional buffer plantings and this doesn't have this is not related to Starbucks itself this was related to the rear portion of the site to where you butt up against a residential property line your ordinance required 188 plants and we had 235 so we were in excess of that requirement um in terms of the amount of shrubs that were required for impervious area this is the number of shrubs that were required based on the square footage of impervious area on the site and again this is this is holistic to the to the entire site um 135 shrubs were required here we had 478 shrubs so we were in in in in great excess of that number and and there's a reason for that in a moment because the foundation shrub requirements and this is the plantings of of of foundation plantings around the building foundations themselves um your ordinance requires um 455 shrubs and we certainly could not accommodate that based on the buildings and the site layout that you have we had um 280 shrubs provided so what we ended up doing um in terms of those numbers originally was we added more shrubs in other places throughout the site to get those double and triple rows of plantings around the property to make up for what we couldn't do around the buildings but it was still a waiver under your under your ordinance requirements um then there was the requirements for Street trees this was trees measured along um Route 22 and and Morgan Lane and your ordinance required 23 and we provided 23 so we were in compliance with the street trees and then lastly um we had the Route 22 buffer requirement again this was the buffering along 22 itself 22 Frontage um where we were required to have 187 tree 187 shrubs we had 351 shrubs so we were well in excess of of that number along the 22 buffer requirements so so all told um there's actually over 1,200 shrubs on this project site between the the the the massing along the the rways around the around the uh parking lots themselves and along the rear portions of the site um for the development um and then in terms of the shrub that the shy that you have both around the perimeter and the parking is the shrub height designed to be like head when your cars parked at headlight the the the shrub Heights vary and they go anywhere from 18 to 24 to 30 to 36 depending on where they are on the site the 30 to 36 ones are typically closer to the parking areas the 18 to 24s are typically closer to the buildings but again that's that's that's a varying depending on the type of shrub but yes it does vary slightly and you want taller ones by The Cars correct mask the the car headlights and onsite activity that is correct okay um then uh with regard to storm water management um yeah I mean we we were proposing native species I didn't get into the specific of the comment but we were proposing native species we can check it to make sure I have no problem with that but the the point what she was looking for was when we had and this goes back a couple years now and we actually had met with her about this and um and and we talked about why wanting to match that shrub row that was along um 22 so this was a this was a double row so we kind of agreed and said all right we're going to do a double row along the front here but because we have the storm water basins we're going to add the third row along the part along the drive aisle here so essentially you're still getting the three rows but instead of doing it here we added it here so this way you had two levels of of of buffering along Morgan it's a little bit tighter so you have them a lot closer to each other if you can see that but that was the Genesis of the comment so that's why we designed it that way um and and again that that was the purpose of it if if the intent is to try to squeeze a couple more in here we could try to do that I'm not saying we we can't um certainly want to work with the board on that it's propertywide correct yes yes are these going to well that has to be built with the hotel it it does correct yes are these Outlets live that there there's Outlet caps here Su is there an outlet that she can plug into yeah I'm looking at this oh oh are so back on the record we ready okay so Mr Michelle storm water storm water unless there's any more questions are there any more questions on Landscaping no I I do have one question about the landscaping materials and the screening because you're dependent on the construction of the hotel and you're describing the property in its entirety and the shrub requirements and the screening requirements when you go to the rear of the property you're adjacent to a residential area that's correct and there are there is a fence which is in Gross disrepair there correct there's a lot of what I'll call trees that are deteriorating over time and a necessity to provide some visual screen to the people who live behind the property but what we're doing is I think or you're asking rather for us to approve the entire design again no again and and and I and quite honestly Mr KCK I think your point is very well teeken when we come back in March we're going to have a breakdown just for our site I gu we can we we need to break down just for our site because I understand the confusion because we are dealing with with the sitewide and quite frankly the hotel and the Hula Hands aren't before the board so we will provide a breakdown specific to this unit and then presuming then that the overall site plan you're saying the the part of it that's um covered by the restaurant and the Stone Tavern and the hotel you're relying on your past plans and your past approvals for that correct I don't I'm not sure I need a little legal Insight here because when you came to this board with this new proposal didn't you then say you're opening up the rest of the site and asking for the maximum relief possible for this property or did I misunderstand you no uh so we had prior relief variances that were granted associated with the guarded school that was part of the comprehensive plan Mr Aller and I had a discussion before the hearing and I agree with his legal analysis which is those variances aren't binding on this board and therefore as it relates to the variances that we may have gotten from the garded school they're irrelevant so we're starting with a clean slate here however the relief granted for the hotel and for the hoola hands still stays in place but we're not going to reference that we're only going to focus on our site the variances now will all be uh to generous to be Latin but it'll all be with only this application okay okay and I I'm sorry if there's any confusion so the garded school approvals are we understood one last question with regard to circulation is there pedestrian access so somebody who's in the Jiffy Lube who wants to run across the street Morgan Lane to get to Starbucks can do so you're adjacent to a residential area people strolling around in the evening want to walk down the various joining streets is that how do they get into the Starbucks site or are you trying to keep them out we don't to keep customers out um but there is there is an existing sidewalk on Morgan Lane it comes down from the the um the north um comes down and actually stops at the intersection right here we are proposing a sidewalk into the property which connects into the hotel once they come in here they could walk essentially into the parking lot area to get into the uh into the site there's no internal sidewalk from this this portion of the property into here but they can certainly walk down the the uh the drive lane to to to get there um if they're at the Jiffy Lube across the street they could walk down and come in the Morgan Lane entrance as as well um I I don't anticipate with all the Landscaping we have here I don't think someone's going to try to come through that uh right that buffer line I just wanted to make sure there was um at least a thought or a provision there's connectivity at this entrance Point here we would anticipate that people who would live to the north I'm sorry to the South not the north um they could bike here or they could walk here and they have access again to the property right and we are actually providing I forgot to mention this some bike racks as well so if someone wanted to bike in they could park they can put the bikes or even if an employee wants to bike into the property we have that ability for them to do that thank you okay ready for now we're ready for storm water there we go so continue relative to storm water sure so I'm gonna go to my next exhibit for the record I believe we're up to A4 and and this is entitled um grading and utility exhibit A4 for the record dated February 27th 2024 um it's basically a colored version of our grading and utility plan that's that's in the uh site plan set and really the purpose of this is just to talk for a few few moments about the site utilities again this is a full public full Public Utilities sewer water Electric telephone cable it's all available in a Morgan Lane around 22 so the building will be serviced um to pretty much with water and sewer from Morgan and gas from Morgan and then electric will probably come off 22 but that could change as well once we meet with utility companies um in terms of the storm water management systems on the property this site actually goes back to the late 90s um early 2000s when it was previously developed there was actually um four existing basins that were built on the property at the time there was a basin along uh 22 and there were three basins um one along Morgan and then two along the back property line line that were put in place at that time for what was going to be the development of the hooland and the Hotel Site the basins were built um but the hotel was never built um so when we came in in 2019 um we actually looked at the design um and and in addition to um retrofitting or modifying the back basins um and adding um water quality devices and attenuation for the hotel site for the storm water management in the back um we actually included um a new bio retention Basin um in the front of the site for what was the Gard school at the time but is is now the Starbucks um and that bi retention Basin is located in the front here and we're also going to expand the existing Basin along 22 um to meet the um water quality requirements of the ordinance as well as to meet the attenuation requirements as well this site because it's in um Metropolitan plan in area one um does not have recharge associated with it so there's no infiltration um here it wasn't required but attenuation and water quality is and based upon the fact we have five basins are designed to treat the runoff store it and then discharge it there's actually two discharge points or three actually One in Morgan Lane one in the upper rightand corner of the site and then the rest of the discharge goes into the storm drainage system that's in 22 that was that was part of the uh the dot application when we got the entrance approved um anything more to add on storm War no okay uh then let's uh quickly touch base on lighting um just describe the lighting I believe we have a design waiver for the lighting intensity yes the lighting on the site is going to be led style lights we're actually going to take down the existing lights that are in the um holahan parking lot I keep saying holahan Stone Tavern parking lot um we're going to replace those with new LED style lights we also have proposed LED lights for the for the for the Starbucks as well as the hotel um and we are actually asking for a slight lighting level deviation your ordinance requires an average of 1.5 across the entire site we're at 1.4 so we're slightly under the ordinance requirements um so we we felt that waiver um given the fact that we're slightly under um we would ask for that waiver requirement as opposed to hitting the 1.5 right on the uh what's the unit we're referring for us Layman so instead of 1.5 sorry it's what they call foot candles so the level of lighting across the site it's the average light level across the site so again the ordinance requires 1. so you're you're going to have less light than the under 1.4 okay it would be it's it's almost imperceptible to to you know the a human um so slightly lower so in terms of then what we were talking about before Mr chairman relative to nighttime after we're closed um you are able to prepare a outline diagram that would show what will the lighting be like when we're closed so that the board can see you know for the overnight hours that we're right so so so illuminated to add to that there was some talk about the lighting um times so the hotel was actually approved for 247 lighting so the lights that are associated with hotel in the back here would be on 247 that was part of the prior approval the lighting associated with the restaurant was actually um during the week it was 12 1200 a.m. or midnight it would be turned off and and then on the weekends it was 2: a.m. that's what was put on the record it was supposed to be right after business close business hours closing the GD school was different because it was a school it be turned off earlier in the evening um for the Starbucks if it's 10 p.m. what we would do is turn the parking lights turn off the parking lot lights around around an hour after closing 11: p.m. and they would be off till the morning hours when they reopen again typically a half hour to hour before they they open security lights and security lights would just be on the building there would be no parking lot lights turned on and I'm sorry when did they go up the security lights on the building would remain on um all night but there would be no interior lights on the building turning no interior lights on when the bu when the business is closed when you were talking about the level of lighting at 1 point4 you were talking about across the entire site entire site when it's fully when it's fully turned on everything turned on at one time and I just have to go back to the point earlier where when you start quoting about the entire site you from a perspective of someone sitting in this chair I'm asking are you looking for relief for some other part of the project and stealing it by getting it on this side of the project or you or the opposite is true and so I'm having trouble honoring the other approvals and waivers when they seem to be incorporated at least in your language as you describe the lighting for this site I could look to break out the lighting for the for the Starbucks so we have a separate number associ with that right that will be go uh something that will be done in conjunction with the next hearing where not only will we address the nighttime lighting level but we'll address the specific lighting level for this for this uh unit thank I think as far as lighting goes that was basically um um it in terms of the the presentation on that right so we ready to go we are all right so Mr Michel in terms of the relief that we are requesting tonight from this board can you walk this board through each and every variance that we are requesting tonight yes I'll be happy to do that um I'm going to end I'm going to put up one more exhibit and I might end up referring back to the other exhibits as well as I go through that would be A5 this will be A5 for the the record Starbucks variance exhibit also dated February 27th 2024 so I'm actually going to as I go through this list of variances um for those who want to follow along I'm actually going in the order of what is in Miss Doyle's letter starting on page three um in terms of reference just so you can follow along in terms of of um what the variances are and again some of them we've identified graphically on the exhibit here A5 others you can't identify on the exhibit so I'll just talk to them as opposed to pointing them out um but I'll go through each of these um and and talk briefly about each one before we get started though uh can you talk about in general the zoning requirements for this site in terms of setbacks Etc that you show in Blue on your exhibit oh yeah so just talking about the bulk setbacks for your HIC Zone um and again this is based on keeping in mind the the overall track boundary is how this is looked at in terms of the setbacks um you have what amounts wait wait wait stop the setbacks would apply to unit three to this property as shown on this exhibit correct as the corner of it would apply yes right so we can we can look at it specifically for for unit let's look at it specifically for our site because it really doesn't matter for the other on um so for unit three for the for the setbacks you've got a front yard setback from Route 22 or the main Highway of 200 feet so that's this this blue dash line you see here so it's measured 200 feet off the RightWay line with Route 22 and then you also because you're a corner lot you've got the front yard setback from Morgan Lane which is 100 feet which is this blue dash line here so it creates this this this angle point or angle Corner if you will where everything in front of these setback lines would not be allowed from a building perspective based on the current HIC ordinance so you'd only be you only be able to put a building theoretically back here within the within the setbacks that exist on this particular portion of the property forgetting the other two lots that that are there which this was originally lot 7.01 in in discussions those are the bulks for the uh for for the setbacks quick question was that considered to put the building within the envelope no we did we did not look at putting the building within that 200t setback no was not considered why for a number of reasons based on layout circulation around the building and and and parking and and access to that parking it was not putting the building all the way back here would have it so far away from the rest of the development area on the on the property you you really want to when we looked at this we wanted to generally Center it on the property from an access and and and visual perspective so please review the variances yes so we're going to start off there's there these the first two are not any particular section but this was discussed by Mr Mr Smith already the the restaurant use and the drive-through restaurant aspect of it so I'm not going to list the sections for those but we realize it's a D1 use variance for a a a a restaurant use with a drive-thru and we're requesting that variance as part of this application um moving on down the list the next one is and and unfortunately in the letter it just says departure and comment it doesn't say if it's a variance or a waiver but I've gone through and and generally checked with the ordinance section so some of these are waivers and some of them are variances I'm going I I'll note that as I go through them um so it's not in any particular I'm going in her I'm going in her order of the letter so there's going to be some variances and waivers they're going to be mixed together here so just bear with me as as we go as we go through that um so then moving on to the next one which is going to be the improved lot coverage for the project and again this is based on the overall property um it's 60% and we're at 60.5% um and could you do the calculation um for the March meeting relative to just the unit three coverage it's already done on the plans so on the plans the unit 3 coverage um and this was condo unit 3 it's on my cover sheet sheet 1 of 13 um it's actually 50.6% is the lot coverage for the the Starbucks lot um the overall property is 60.5% which is slightly over the 60% and I should note the prior variance just for reference purposes was at 60.8% so I didn't mention this previously but we did slightly reduce the impervious coverage from the prior application to this application it's about a th000 square ft reduction in in in in coverage area for the current um plan you see see here in front of you so that's that's a lock coverage variance and that is actually from section 126 314. 1. F9 for reference purposes that's maximum permitted impervious coverage um then we have a variance for what is the minimum building um front yard setback um and that's from section 126 3141 F14 and this is for the building setback from Route 22 where 200 foot is required um that I pointed out here on the plan that's the setback line and we actually have a couple numbers I'm going to talk about here there's a setback distance to what is the corner of the Starbucks building which is 119.4 Ft that's the dimension you see on here and then we also have a setback um variants to the what I'll call the corner of the overhead canopy or the roof of the um outdoor seating area um that's a that's a canopy overhang that's 113.8k we listed both both of them were listed here so we're calling them out as as such as a variance um for that corner of the of the building the next one is a variance from section 126-131 f.5 and this is for variant setback from Morgan Lane this is the 100 foot setback from Morgan Lane so that's this 100 foot yard 100 foot setback line that's shown here so Morgan Lane we are measuring actually again two numbers um but the the main one here is the 96.3 ft that's measured from the property line to the canopy of the drive-thru um for the um distance to the uh to the setback of the building the actual building itself is actually setback 101.4 feet so the actual building itself complies technically with the Morgan Lane setback of 100 feet but the canopy itself is at 96.3 feet which is a which is which is a variance um per the ordinance the next one is the minimum parking setback this is from section 126-1 171c this is actually a design waiver in your ordinance and this is the minimum parking setback from what is Route 22 where 100 foot is required and we have actually it's 81.6 81.5 feet um the the plan said originally said um hold on a second here um 86.3 but it's actually um 81.6 I'm sorry original plan said 83.1 and it's actually 81.6 and that's the corner of the parking of the parking space in the front leftand corner of the property here when measured from the edge of the parking space to the right away of Route 22 it's 86 81.6 feet when measured to that distance 81.5 I'm sorry so the planning document is inaccurate it says 57.1 the 57.1 one I I think is an error um because I I think what M doy was looking at was there was a a shaded parking space over here by the hola hands this was actually this was actually an existing parking space that was going to be repaved I think she might have construed that as a proposed parking space um which is not the case so when you measure that distance it's about 55 to 57 feet from the RightWay line now it's 8 what now it's 81.6 feet and that's has been the case for this parking space on on the lower leand corner here the proposed 81.6 and that's a waiver under the under the ordinance so it's not not 57 it's 81.6 then the minimum parking setback from Morgan Lane which is same section 126-1 171.000 feet as required and we are proposing 21.3 and that is the the um parking spaces that run parallel to the RightWay it's 21.3 along that entire entire length along Morgan Lane scaled I think scaled is what she used to actually measure on the the paper print and came up with 20 feet but we had it dimensioned at 21.3 uh it says here maximum floow area ratio and this is not it was asking us to confirm in testimony needed for the size of condo unit 3 it wasn't listed here but it was on the cover sheet it was 0.003 004 so that was that's in compliance with the U with the ordinance for the for the F for the so I just want to note that that's not a it's not a variance we don't need relief we don't need relief but it was qu it was questioned here the next one is the minimum sign right away setback for the freestanding sign um and this was the setback measured from the right of way of Route 22 and this is from section 126-1 195 f11a and this is a design waiver not a variance um it's a it's a waiver request for the sign setback um from the uh the main Highway and the ordinance requires 25 we're we're asking for eight feet um for that sign setback the next one is for the number number of freestanding signs on the property and this is from section 126-1 195 E4 this is also a waiver um and it's the uh the ordinance allows um one freestanding sign and the site is proposed is actually has two existing freestanding signs and we're asking for a third so just for just for reference and it's actually not shown on exhibit A5 so I'm going to go back to exhibit A3 um we talked about this sign for the Starbucks here on 22 there's also an existing sign out by um Morgan Lane that was going to be um retrofitted with the new hotel name and there's also an existing um pylon sign here off of um at the main entrance on 22 that was also going to be updated with the new hotel tenant signage as well um so those two signs exist one on Morgan one on 22 and we were asking for a third for the uh for the Starbucks all right and Mr Michelle I'm going to cop there before you hop on to page four I appreciate you going through all this but you know we're definitely going have to pick this up at the next meeting what I do want to do is open it up to members of the public that have so patiently sat here to ask questions on your testimony thus far and I'm going to give members of the public that show up at the next meeting another opportunity to question Mr Michel when he completes his testimony so anyone that has any questions come on up ask them now I know that questions can be forgotten and you know I want to make sure you have an opportunity tonight to ask them please please again my name is John mton 184 Adamsville Road you've Mr Michelle you've shown how there is a flow that goes through the site not just a standalone assessment for Starbucks right so I mean you so I mean if there's a lot of disc discussion about the traffic and the number of cars that could be going into and circulating around Starbucks uh but from what I'm unless I'm wrong there seems to be a significant pinch Point by cars that decide to go through the pay make that left and try to go across because they could be going across traffic that's trying to come in and get into your lanes plus you also described the flow of people from maybe hooland or a hotel that might want to go that way as another means of regress perhaps out through to Morgan Lane so there's a significant pinch point there on your flow uh I I get a sense that we're supposed to assess this as a singular site entity but there seems to be all significant points where there's comingling of a relationship between the entire site that can't be cannot be ignored um so can and from I get the sense that this is perceived to be the best design and flow for the constructure of the blue line or per the entire site for that Starbucks so again I I think when you look at it it is looking at it from from an overall site perspective you're right um it it's not just focused solely on Starbucks because you do have the opportunity to to maneuver around the site no different than if I'm in a retail shopping center of location so that being said I do want to point out that while you make you may refer to this as a pinch point I don't necessarily agree there's a Stop Bar here which does control the flow of vehicles into this drive lane so there is a control of of traffic at this point where a car would stop here before they would move into this Lane I don't know if it would if you'd have cars blocking or anything like that but there is a controlled here with a stop condition um for for cars and we'll certainly look at this in a little bit more detail we we've heard a lot of comments tonight from the board and we're not going to say that this is the ultimate final plan but we want it we want to look at it a little bit more but I understand you're you're concern about you know what's what's happening here because there are cars coming off of here and well it's and it's really to that that wrer the right corner there where understood yeah and because it seemed to me being a lay person that if you were to take advantage of a little further up posturing of that site you could do a lot more to alleviate the traffic flow but again that seems to be a constricture of the applicants intent to perhaps put it where it is by what you delineate previously by that blue line of area condominium one well I mean again we're also limited to there's other improvements around here you're not going to move the parking for the hola hands you're not going to move the parking for the hotel you you you do have and again we have a acre and a half site to work with so I'm not saying we can't look to make some adjustments to the layout which we certainly heard this evening from from from the board okay thank you thank you all right let's try and get one more question in um once again bill bill um um geland uh from uh VI and Victor r e l a n d uh seven Stanford Drive uh could uh you go back to A2 thank you um okay the uh where it says Morgan Lane and let's see the distance between um Morgan Lane and the other exit on 22 East would would you know the distance between those two points from from Route 22 to Morgan Lane this distance no no the the the the one from um um Morgan Lane to um um Route 22 the other entrance or exit to the old U Hula Hands this yes I think it's roughly 90 I think it's roughly five 550 600 feet the frontage is like 670 feet along the site so maybe it's like okay roughly uh would you would you concede that um uh Route 22 East the hours of say 7 a. to 7 p.m. is you know pretty full it's it's a state highway yes yes no no no question so anything that that that that's added here is going to create more traffic not only on Route 22 East but also on Morgan Lane I'm I'm going to defer the traffic counts to our traffic okay fine uh it was requested here uh from the uh old uh uh board uh to put one or two um speed bumps on a um um Morgan Lane and we were told that would that would be looked uh um into can you say old board wasn't this that's from like 2019 so the the planning board the planning board Administration yes and I bet you never heard from them did you no did not I think that would be a good idea since the uh speed limit on uh that that road is uh uh 25 miles hour and that's often exceeded what I will do for you is we have a new Administration since 2019 that was elected in 2020 I will personally reach out to them to put that on I don't know what will happen but I will let them know that it was brought up at this meeting and I will uh ask them to review that and get us an answer thank you done you're welcome I would certainly you're right about that I'd question you that the anything like a speed bump on a Municipal Road would have to come from the Town Council yeah we have nothing to do with it recomend it and say that it was asked about and then it would be up to them one thing okay thank you I I appreciate that the other thing there if you look at um U Morgan Lane as it goes out to Route 22 about the same distance or so you give or take a little is exit to or entrance onto Route 2 287 South and my concern is is that someone okay if they were going to try to get on 287 South from route22 East I would try the other uh um uh exit as opposed to going out of the one from um um Morgan Lane so I'll defer that to our traffic engineer okay it's a valid point yeah it's a valid point saying you get more time to make your yes exactly not a bad idea and because some uh if this it's approved the uh you know Starbucks site some uh uh my guess would be some uh Yahoo sooner or later is going to you get your cup of coffee and try to get on Route 287 South Wham all right I I promise we'll have a a joyous traffic discussion that will probably take up many hours okay thank you all right and we're going to wrap up the meeting there thank you everyone for coming out tonight members of the public thank you for your participation our next scheduled meeting is uh March 12th and I believe Mr Smith that you we're going to yes Mr chairman and on March 12th we will be bringing Mr michelo back okay for continued uh both direct and questioning from the board and public we project architect Mr Horton will be presenting the project architecture however my other Witnesses are not available okay so there will be no traffic on March 12th that will be another funfilled evening following that date right so be determined at the March 12th meeting to but I expect that's probably take it hour and a half maybe two okay Mr michelo and all the questions and and architecture all right and there'll be no further notice so we'll be 7 o'clock in this room March 12th to continuation of tonight's hearing thank you Mr we're going to pick up with Mr michello and members of the public again you're going to have an opportunity to ask questions on his testimony right and leave them yeah all right and just so that everyone is aware this board has asked a lot of questions and a lot of them are going to be answered in direct on the 12th so I just wanted everybody to know all right thank you very much thank you everyone can I have a motion second all right thank you good luck yeah good luck Bruce thank you March [Music] 12 schedule second