##VIDEO ID:c4U1uOjppSE## today is August 20th 2024 and we are at the City of Cape Canaveral community redevelopment agency CRA special board meeting at the city hall council chambers 100 PK Avenue Cape Canaveral Florida I call this meeting to order and with that Vice chair Kellum would you please lead us in the pledge Ali to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all thank you city clerk please call the role board member Davis here board member Jackson here Vice chairperson Kellum chairperson Morrison here board member Willis here thank you all for being here board members and those of City staff and the public and I believe those who might be live streaming today as I said this is a community redevelopment agency CRA board special board meeting and we are at the public participation of the meeting if anyone who intends to speak please we yes come forward uh fill out a card and provide it to us and we'll make sure you're heard and those of you listening online if you intend to speak we just asked you to please raise your hand I will unmute you and give you an opportunity to be heard with that I do not see any cards up here if anyone intends to speak please raise your hand seeing none and those online listening ask the same to please raise your hand see no hands raised we'll go ahead and bring it back to this board close public participation we have one new business item here today which is to discuss the CRA budgetary priorities and the draft fiscal year 2425 CRA budget unless Council has any initial comments or anything we want to say I'd like to hand it over to registered agent the registered agent thank you the Flor um the me this meeting was called because at the last city council meeting there was discussion about the Oak Lane Capital project um could it be funded by the CRA or at least the portion of it that was in the general fund could it be funded by the CRA and based on uh City attorney's correspondence and my reading of the statute yes it is not pre precluded from that $550,000 portion of this Oak Lane being funded from the CRA and the the council being sensitive to the the membership being called for the CRA board meeting decided to schedule this meeting so here we are to start talking about that but it was also more about the CRA priorities in general Mia if we could go to page 122 of the budget um that will get us right to the six projects that are currently in the draft CIP for the CRA and as I mentioned there are there are six projects currently in the proposed um CRA for 2425 totaling $3 m8000 um yeah so it's page 122 that's okay and I want to note that um John Deo who is not here tonight um but Joey thank you for being here for answer any questions John Deo um responded to my request for information in the case the council does decide to go to rollback how much additional money needs to come out of the CRA if we go to roll back and he responded that it's $117,000 less in the CRA so if m is there at 1:22 and you see there the 2425 column there's $3 m8000 in expenditures in the draft proposed CRA budget for next fiscal year so we know that 117,000 would have to come out of that if we go to rollback um we could decide a line item or just maybe we could re re um categorize these these expenditures but also if we're going to do Oak Lane we should specify it in here as a $5 $50,000 expenditure and decide what to remove or what to reduce by that 550 so all told 550 plus7 that's 500 600 what's my math on there 550 + 117 667 needs to come out of the CRA and then decide how if we want to do the other items in there for instance cr1 is the canaval city park Redevelopment of 12,000 Civic Hub CR2 had 1 million $50,000 and that was was to be for storm water initiatives in first phase of construction cr3 is the presidential streets at 1.6 million uh cr4 the traffic safety public art installation at 15,000 cr5 is a canaval fire rescue enhanced lightning protection system of 16,000 and finally cr6 Canaveral City Park concession stand of $315,000 so um I wanted to also remind the CRA board that the last time the board met the board request two proposals from kimley horn um which we just recently got back um and they're for the design of the first presidential Street which was Filmore and also for the design of the storm water component of the Civic Hub uh those proposals are ready um and we will definitely schedule those for the regular CR meeting in September to to be presented there this is more about budgetary priorities and what we'd want to do in the CRA those are more specific that the expenditures as of today at the and this this is based on the what we call I think the middle of the road no this this this was I'm sorry this was the the CIP workshops that we did came up with these prices but it was these Joey were these adjusted since then okay roll back is I just had it three how much below roll back is that number be 6,000 1,000 um would have to be would be lost to the C so if if we're basically losing 61 at roll back rate we would lose $61,000 in Revenue that would normally come to the CRA and so we would have to cut out 61,000 but the current rate that we're at now or that was proposed would have been able to fund these $9.8 million in projects the when when the budget was initially brought the top number yes so we only need to remove 67 61,000 out of 9.8 million well these Joey correct me if I'm wrong the these are the numbers that from the CIP that were in the first original proposed draft budget which was a millage rate something above higher than middle of the road so the when it was adjusted when it was approved at middle of the road these these numbers weren't reduced that correct um the um one of them was um I forget which one off the top of my head yes sir um I believe the the presidential streets we brought that down to 1.2 that is correct yeah okay okay so this was adjusted for middle of the road then these numbers um I can actually pull them up right here to confirm but I think you're correct I think as Council M Willis says he'd take off 400,000 and maybe there's a few other things but it would bring that 2425 down to 2.6 just roughly yeah I just remember 1.2 being brought up and said that the next time the next book we got would adjust down those numbers in the September book that we get another way to ask it is what would the total fiscal year 2425 expenditures be if it's not three million $8,000 roll back yeah or uh whatever it was the the 3.2 if that's below roll back or at rollback definitely would like to know okay um I'll need a second to find those numbers for you because yeah when I look at this and we're saying we just need to take out 117,000 what what number are we pulling it from uh 3, 8,000 that's my understanding the total CRA budget for proposed CIP budget that that's how John instructed me before he left so this this year's CRA budget versus the entire 20 to 25 to 29 period we're only talking about fiscal year 2425 right yeah okay so I have um a good way to summarize it and think of it m so at middle of the road where the general fund millage is 34519 we we can afford all the projects in the CRA uh CIP budget and CRA budget perfect so if we change that and go down to roll back which would be the 33199 number then you'd have to take out um then you would lose about 60,000 in revenue and if it went down to that 3.2 number which is below roll back then you'd have you'd lose 117,000 in Revenue perfect that that was a missing piece that's the below roll back rate the middle of the road rate of 34519 supports this budget that we're looking at that second number roll back three 3199 correct mhm is roll back and we're talking yeah 3.2 okay so got it the 117,000 or no I'm sorry 60,000 61 61,000 at the 3.31 would need to come out and then uh 117,000 Council or board member Willis what did you have a a i but the 34519 supported the 1.2 for the presidential streets correct um the 1.2 for the presidential streets cra we we brought that down to 1.2 was that that was because of the middle of the road rate correct or was that the initial higher end rate of 1.6 um no in that 1.6 number 300,000 of that is um engineering or um some other fees so so that is in that number I think we did take 50,000 off of it um to to help balance the budget right but but when we were discussing at the last budget meeting it was brought up that that number was going to change to 1.2 million and it would be updated in the next budget book in September what is the millage rate that is associated with that 1.2 million with that that would be the proposed it would be the 3415 okay all right so at 3415 we're really looking at 2,68 I'm sorry I'm not following that all right because the 3 mil8 means we're looking at 1.6 million for the presidential streets but if we were bringing that down 400,000 then the total CRA is three is 2.6 08 okay yes um that's I'll bring um the most updated cips um up really quick so I can confirm but yes that logic is correct okay so it's going to bring it down for all of the years for the CRA through 2029 is what I'm hearing is that correct no no it's just bringing it down for next year okay which certainly impacts the the future but yeah yeah okay thank you but I don't I don't think we need to confuse ourselves what subsequent years are going to do so when you asked that question the number that supports this three million 8,000 originally thought it was the 34519 but then I hear a 3415 maybe I heard it wrong what is the number that supports this the three 3 mil8 wouldn't that be the original 3.4 4519 what is that military Joey 3 um 4519 for the general fun9 so so yes I can confirm uh council member uh Willis you are correct that was before uh we figured out what the Cy's um uh mill rate would be and when we did we had to take it down um the 4 ,000 so the new numbers would be 400,000 minus that okay okay so it wasn't a it was based off of a um once we verified the other numbers that it really didn't change the millage rate we just had to right adjust the expected revenues based on that rate thank you very much for clarifying and all that so so uh today we know we have a roll back rate of [Music] 33199 the total CRA for 2425 should say 2.6 million is that right okay so it's really 2.6 million and then we can reduce the 2.6 by $61,000 to good a roll back rate and or 117,000 to go a slightly below roll back rate what I now that I think we've got that is out of the $2.6 million I mean to because a revenue reduction is 61 1,000 at roll back rate I think that's that's attainable and I would like to see us I mean as a percentage of budget 2.6 million and I know some of these costs are opinion a probable cost like the Civic Hub and presidential streets Civic Hub I think um if we reduce we need to find the projects where where we can do that that's the the task that I think you need so with that um and then once I think if we if we can identify some you know separately we can decide if we want to do that I've said enough board member Jackson Willis Davis and the one thing I wanted to mention is the fact that we don't have enough to do fully fund some of these projects the CRA Todd and I discuss that so um with the presidential Street we really don't even know how much that will be do we have have we had any clue since I talked to you about that city manager do you have that number the opinion of probable cross for Filmore there we go okay I don't actually have a opinion on probable costs until they actually know what we're doing with the road for Filmore so we can I have guesstimated on how much it's going to cost per what we've uh received per oaklane and on my knowledge itself uh but to get an opinion of probable cost on Filmore Avenue uh we will need to make a decision on what we're actually doing uh how deep we're going what kind of utilities we're going to be uh changing out and stuff like that all that information it comes from that proposal that you just received from kimley horn correct so they don't give an opinion to probable cost in that document not until we have them do the work correct certain decisions have to be made first I see correct but you believe that that 1.6 isn't going to be enough for Filmore I think we can do part of it yeah yeah that's consistent K with what you and I were talking about right and I just wanted to make sure we were all aware of that as we look at what we are really going to do because um what we decide today is of course going to impact next year's budget if we're not able to fully fund one presidential Street at this time but we can allocate money for that following Year's presidential street right right but I just want to make sure we're looking at that today and the fact that one full Street will not be finished and we have 16 of those streets to finish and we won't have enough years or CR money to do that so as we look at this presidential Street project and the length of the project um not knowing what's going to happen 5 10 years from now if we had to stop because we didn't have the funds or um people had low tolerance for increasing taxes to get the funds since the CRA money would run out are we you know what would we do what would Council have to look at as Alternatives or options if we run out of funds doing those and we're going to go run out of funds we don't have the funds in the CRA for that full length of time to do all of those stes so we'd really need to look at which ones we want to Define and the time frame and which ones are most important and prioritize but it's still not going to give our city the exact same look and feel on all those presidential streets Mr chair yes sir in looking at this if we were to take the Civic Hub project and the presidential streets project and F focused purely on storm water purely uh where we're utilizing the Civic hub for storm water issues and we take portions of the presidential Street on Filmore to assist in that storm water issue all right we're reducing the storm water which impacts all of the southerly presidential streets it it will assist in all of that we may not be able to even do a total presidential Street redo or maybe we need to push that thought process back a year resolve storm water president the Civic Hub if it takes us 8 10 years to realize the entire Vision okay but I think if we're focused on reducing storm water it improves improves quality of life on all the presidential streets and we may in that we may find funds to help with Oak Lane um we might even have to look at the concession stand in order to to do oaklane as well but I think priority should be storm water in utilizing what we have and reducing the storm water thank you yes board member Jackson I just wanted to check and um we spoke during the last budget meeting about the potential project that I had discussed with Todd and with Tim about getting some of that water off of what street is that Tim Magnolia thank you and it is a test project because it's lower cost um Todd and excuse me Mr city manager sorry about that um did you happen to bring that street diagram that you had I wish no but I'm sure Tim could grab it because that is a super helpful thing to look at as we talk about storm water because if that works in one spot um uh city manager had shown me how they identified and took a look at some of the other areas that that may assist and so if we could get that where you all where council could see it I if people didn't see it I'd love for them to see that Tim maybe you could email it to Mia and Mia can pull it up on the screen and it it definitely speak exactly to what um um board member Willis is saying as far as storm water you know in some ways that we can get it off the streets without being able to complete a presidential Street project you said that was Magnolia yes well he um the city manager and Tim have identified a lot of areas within our city that we can remove water from the streets where we have too much pavement and you know the the um meat hunt said we had too much initially and you know the entire presidential Street projects were to get water off the streets so um the the map that they're going to show us really when I saw that it it really looks like we can make an impact with a much smaller budget if the first one works thank you so can I ask so member member Davis Jackson so what you're saying is if what you want to do is take some project off and add that to the pro to the budget or what are you trying to no we had discussed adding this anyway um as a test and doing it from the storm water funds but as Council as board member Willis was speaking to storm water and our Focus there I wanted to make sure you all saw this because um we've worked on this now um you see all the blue and purple sections uh the city manager went through and they Define the sections and city manager if you'll discuss the color difference and everything for everyone so I don't mess it up and this is just a design concept these are not engineering drawings um the the what we did was we went on the assumption that kimy horn told us that the any presidential Street work would be in east to west on the presidential street but would go north to south on the north south street only 75 ft North and 75 ft to the South so that defined a project area on any North South Street in between those two 75t extents so um for instance if um I'll wait till Mia is ready to zoom in um the the blue is the safe zone so anything that you see that's blue that is not only the safe Zone that's not going to be touched by a Kim Horn project but it's also where we have 100% impervious so MIA if we could zoom in on that um um almost in the center of the screen come down pull it down a little bit no stay zoomed in zoom in some more now pull it down Pull It To the Left right there okay so no now go back up no no pull it back up pull it back up pull it back up now go to the left all right right there so right there in the very center of the screen you see a lot of purple and blue uh the blues for instance on Magnolia that Tim was talking about that is a potential project pilot area that's solid impervious that would not interfere theoretically with any kimling horn presidential Street the purple is showing that well that's also impervious too but that would potentially interfere with a presidential street so the blues are the safe zones the purples are e we could be getting into something that could mess with a presidential Street in the future the idea that Mrs Jackson is talking about is doing a blue any one those given blue given Blues there's several large ones that we could choose from to do but perhaps we should start on Magnolia just north of Filmore there because that's definitely 100% impervious uh so the the thought is if we cut out a portion of that impervious it's in the city's RightWay we have we have uh the authority and we control the RightWay put back in a perious product in there that allows them to still park over it um and see what it does and what kind of impact that has in removing storm water flow into the curb that ultimately goes to this most strained area of the fil more um um Street in this in the Center Street Basin and as it was explained to me if you look at the green those are our storm water pipes so right now if you look at that tailor and the corner of Magnolia there's three drains there it goes in look where it and uh Tim showed me this look where it turns left and look where it ends up right in the low spot in front of the Filmore townhouse is where it flooded and I'm not sure what that little mess of pipes is in front of that and how that would help drainage those those are under those are called under drains 8 in under drains they appear to have been put in at some year after the original work was done to help relieve it was a known problem try to trying to relieve it um so if we can as as Tim had explained it to me if we can get that out of the green pipe um the blue areas would drain naturally down through the ground instead of going into the storm water pipes and that's been really successful with the rain Garden if you think of how much water it's gotten off the street there doing a natural type of draining so those were the that's what we have been looking at and as we talk about storm water and money these projects Tim you had kind of looked at potential costs on these ballpark yeah I I got the numbers upstairs uh I believe what we were doing was a 200 we had originally wanted to do a uh 68t area and it came out to about $140,000 so I can take that and break it down pry linear footage and come up the price now of course that was a couple years ago um so I I do expect an increase a small increase probably due to inflation but nothing major but one thing we also need to consider is there's a machine to clean this type of pavement and we already have it in our city and we don't have the machine so Tim would you speak to that so we know that situation as well there's there's different uh machines that I've looked at of course you've got you know the deluxe model all the way to $500,000 and then you got a little small model all the way to $45,000 uh the for $45,000 is like a little SUV kind of looks like a lawnmower uh with a vacuum on it and it it literally vacuums all the perious pavement up if you don't maintain it of course we're we're killing our uh infrastructure that we're pouring money into uh because then it'll stop working along the years um the middle of the line uh was a um a triverus it's called a triverus and it's on a little Bobcat chassis I don't remember exactly how much it was um and then you have the full-fledged uh it's looks like a street sweeper but it's called a pure vacuum sweeper um the thing with this is that a regular sweeper will not take care of the perious pavement it will just mix in the dirt into the pavement itself um and and so what you really need is a vacuum sweeper uh I actually called around to a lot of places in Florida and it seems not to be a hot commodity right now so nobody really has one uh but you can buy them but yes you are right when you start putting this kind of material in throughout the city you have to maintain it or it loses loses its value and where do we have it currently within the city uh gosh it's about six years ago I put flexi pave down North Atlantic Avenue on a lot of the curves and stuff we have it on this south side of Canaveral City Park yes we have some there um and then we're about to get our first ever uh pervious pavers down at the end of Center Street at Center Street Park we took the uh old pavers out and we're getting ready to try the perious paver system which will be really interesting so that will need cleaning as well vacuuming every now and then so that I just wanted to put out there for uh the board's consideration because you know we can't finish an entire presidential Street and it's going to take a long time and a lot of money to do all 16 to have the same look and feel throughout the city and we needed and y'all know I'm really into we need to do storm water things now I've been focusing on this so this would we need the cleaning machine already because of the fact we already have these surfaces within the city and once again I'm also focused on whatever we have we need to maintain and um so these were some options and a trial and attemp and the city manager has been working with me trying to get a a feel for this so that if we did one test and it works we could you know possibly have some Alternatives until we get the all the presidential streets completed and I would just add to that that um we talked about a doing a pilot project because there's other costs um a survey is going to be necessary obviously we want to know of any utilities that are going to be in the area we don't want to break anything that we do um and possibly some maybe some other engineering work on a per project basis we thought if we picked one as a project pilot and see how it goes then we get our arms around how much is this going to cost if we do more in the future and the original idea was to use existing storm water funds for this too as opposed to CRA funds but as we look at CRA and um with board member Willis's comment on focusing on storm water I wanted you all to see this because um if we do this with a pilot you know One Pilot project and see if it works um and we're doing it under storm water then that may change how we want to deal with our CRA funds so sorry I interrupted you I don't think you know of any cities that or counties that you utilize um I do know that Coco Beach had a pilot project that had a flooding issue in one on one road and uh Jessica from Ferguson took us uh me and Zach out there and uh showed us how it worked and they haven't had an issue since it was it was a Porous concrete um I also know that I went and uh did a demo or went to see a demo from AFC which is a storm water component uh uh like pervious paer and uh I was just explained this today they had opened up a fire hydrant and it didn't reach across the road that's how fast it soaked it into the ground so I you it's effective yes it's very effective as long as you keep it clean thank you and I just want to bring it back we're at 50:07 PM this thank you Tim I probably might have more questions um take a seat if if you choose unless do you have a question board member Willis yeah 's going to get mad at me now sorry Tim I'm sorry no no I want to see him get up and down do we we have vaed systems in the C5 do do we not I believe we do yes the softball field not sure exactly what the softball field the INF exfiltration system oh the trunk yes yeah right that part yes do we ever have any flooding in that area not really okay so that that test case Works sure we also use it for reuse when we have too much reuse instead of going out to the river we filled the system with reuse so did we have flooding in that area before I can't speak to that I was here hired after they were already put in so I'm not sure exactly here Harrison Avenue and the areas around the ball fields flooded but that million gallons I think right is 900 and something yeah really awesome so would just want to bring it back I know Vice chair hasn't had a chance to speak as well and just comment on the big picture here roll back rate uh if we reduce it we see some costs everything I'm hearing so far before the vice chair my initial feedback is yes presidential streets was defined as kind of everything that you could possibly do to make the streets better and Community surveys and it's just a beautiful complete street with you know storm water amenities but if we had to rank you know signs uh lights issues with safety and then you know throw flooding in there storm water flooding is going to be I think a top expenditure within the presidential street so fully agreed on doing the flooding portion of the presidential streets first and then you know whether it be love the idea of testing different applications but to me it's more about we will fig I think the how we will figure that out what I do know is that if we spend it not on flooding I I don't know if that's going to help it and so I just want to give some comment agreed with everything I'm hearing um Vice chair Kellum thank you you um I just brought this up um at the last meeting um we had talked about uh Oak Lane which we've been trying to pave for since I've been here in 2019 I brought it to the council and I brought it to the council because um the little restaurant there Latina at the corner flooded three times three or four times um with the water runoff from North Atlantic um and when I was running for Council he asked me to please see if I could push them fixing the um the road there um so he his business would stop flooding um I asked back then if it could be a CRA fund and I was told no um and I think you know it's been kicked down the road for a years I I did research on and looked it up and even the mayor Jameson had requested that Oak Lane be um paved you know how many years ago was that also the you know I worked with the residents there um there was some controversy did they want it did they not want it I met with them a few few times um they all are on board they want it and they want the re uh reycled water the um reclaimed water they want that for their loans um we said that we could do that that helps reduce our reclaimed water in the in the city um I just think it's my my major thing is I don't want to I would like to reduce the money um in the general fund that 550 and and do it through the CRA which in ourc plan it's most about roads and um you know fixing uh the things in the city that need to be done with the CRA funds um I I believe you know I think that it's important um the storm water component on the presidential streets absolutely but where do we know you know with the Veterans Park rain garden with the new pump um with the the projects that Tim's talking about I would the little pieces here and there how that will affect the the um the storm water on the streets um I believe you know I am all for the Civic Hub I just think that this should be the year that we finish the things that have been kicked down the road for many years and let the poor people on Oak Lane have a paved road if you've ever been down there when it's rain rains it doesn't flood but the potholes are big enough for your car to sink in um and it's not it's not a great place for them to live they pay taxes too it I think um like the general idea was to help the restaurant that's been there 30 years now um and has contributed to our city uh as far as you know making donations to baseball leagues and and things like that they're good good it's a good little business mom and pop place so that's where this started and I think it's just time to finish the things that we've started and yes the Civic Hub is very important um I think it will be a great addition to our city but you know like it took how many years for Veterans Park to get done um I don't think it it the storm water portion of it is important but I think with these other things we're working on it may alleviate the flooding um so that's my that's where I'm coming from I just would like to see oaklane come out of the general fund and be put in the CRA um and maybe we could you know the presidential streets I think is down to 1.2 million um that's a big undertaking um but I just think that you know kicking the can down the road again would be not fair to the residents um on oaklane that we've been it's been the budget for uh 5 years and um I think it's just time to get things done that we have been putting off and you know prioritize where we are and um get things done that we haven't gotten done yet and that's where I'm coming from thank you Vice chair Kellum the cost on the oak Lan project as of today estimated was that budget of 850 Tim 86 86,000 so 550 would be that general fund or CRA and the remainder would come out of storm water storm what say that last part one more time please the remainder would come out of storm water Enterprise so how much would need to come out of the CRA 550 $550,000 okay total project cost is 86,000 which three which is under what we expected it to be okay so the question Vice chair Callum I agree oaklane has been a a on the we it's it's been a while a long time and um if we can it's it's about putting 550,000 out of the 2.6 million right today and so if we added it in without reducing anything we be yeah about where it's showing now I think if we were to look at the projects um there's a few small ones in there under you know the 12 the one at the top cr1 canaval city park Redevelopment um the traffic safety public art installations um canaval fire rescue station the lightning protection system so that's those three are $43,000 the cr12 and five cr12 and five or right 40 14 and five May mayor 145 or $43,000 that looks right okay um the next is the concession stand that's another thing that we had a concession stand I know that've been proponent of that and it was removed uh to me that's not really a new of course it would be a new concession stand but you're replacing what was removed if we can make that work the 315 I think that's really good we're at 367,000 those are and none of those are really flooding or anything thing um however assuming those are in that pretty much leaves the two big ones uh 2.4 million we have and if we add in the 550,000 um we really got couple million less than 1.9 .8 million left over in my opinion we would use we would the Civic Hub project you would pull from that just for visual to pay for Oak Lane when that leaves 500,000 I would take the 500,000 out of the budget and that would leave 1.2 million to work on flooding however it is defined as a priority um that's for 2425 I would not rename the items or anything I would just say Civic Cub you would remove the amount you want to spend this year put it in a future date or strike it um it was a midterm 2 to 7ear project that we acquired quickly now I think we can do and I appreciate that those are my comments I think we can pay for it I would think that the Civic HB a million dollars there half of that roughly should go to a higher priority Oak Lane go first and we still have 500,000 in the arpa fund for the Civic Hub that's designated for that so it would be mhm that as well in in arpa another point arpa was really about recovery from covid and things and so when you in flooding and water was a big part of it and so even more reason um point is is can we can we maintain a a roll a below roll back rate I think we can and there's plenty of room left over um to to make that happen for the purposes of this meeting cra Council or board member Willis well if you're redirecting funds or reallocating funds you know if you're classifying presidential Street being Filmore which was part of kimley Horn's design in connection with the Civic Hub you can still take those funds to reduce storm water along Filmore utilizing the Civic hub however that however those funds could go and I had an an idea after the I'm make sure I let me make sure I got that I'm not I'm not through okay um because we've reduced the presidential streets down to 1.2 and if you're taking the Civic Hub down to 550 then you've got 1.7 million possibly to put towards storm water utilizing the Civic Hub property which to me would make a larger impact quicker on our storm water issues and cover a greater area and Tim is nodding his head so he if he is agreeing with me please let me know no I I'll speak on it real fast so what kimley horn was planning on doing with both of these projects is having them hold hands whereas where they would do the storm waterer components of Filmore and help tie them into the underground chambers that they were proposing for the Civic Hub area both of them are mostly storm water related components in in all reality to hold hands I think that's what you're saying right right and plus we still have that issue in front of the the uh town homes on Filmore which if you're tying all this in together a lot of it would be going into that therea yes okay that's what that that's what the two quotes from Kenley horn were were to engineer design uh both the underground storm water Chambers for the Civic Hub in the in the amount of 149,000 and then 298,000 I believe for the presidential Street to uh not only do um you know uh storm water related components but to also possibly change out underground storm water uh pipes and stuff like that and see if we can redirect a lot of that storm water in that area into the Civic Hub area getting the proper slopes well given that property on Filmore which is the lowest point water's collecting down there correct so it needs to be moving out I'm done thank you member Davis I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with um taking oaklane and putting it into the CRA we need to keep the CR funds very healthy for other things that are going on storm water is the issue so I'm not for getting rid of anything to do with the Hub I think the Hub is important as far as the storm water issue and um you know I'm not looking to to roll back just so you're aware so I'm not willing to cut you know you're talking about we're putting you know just keep putting things down the road we are talking about cutting the majority of what our projects are so I'm not willing to put them down the road if we go middle of the of the the road then we can keep everything and do our projects and keep the storm water and fill more well Hub The Hub fil more so I'm not comfortable necessarily putting Oak Lane in the CRA for the Capital Improvement sorry thank you board member Jackson yes I had um I made a trip over to the Nancy Hansen and to the tennis courts this week and that court that was brought up the surface is really bad and that one court is literally Boe and things like that so I was curious because I know there's a storm water plan for the Civic Civic Hub um but I was wondering are any of the the storage tanks going to be under the tennis courts because that court and having spoken to Molly it's had problems in the past and they've said it needs to be Foundation taken out and redone well if we have this thing that needs maintenance and we haven't gotten that done yet if we do just that section and then resurface the entire courts that could be included in the the CRA for this time and it would be even better if we had some sto storm drainage tankes under it if we had to bring the base up um Molly would you come speak to this section of the court for me um I was thinking about that and I'm like that would be a good way to pull in resurf ing something uh the the tennis courts to where they're more serviceable for our players and better condition um and potentially be able to do something quicker with storm water there as well until we get the bigger projects that um board member Willis has mentioned in play as well so Molly Mr chair could I interrupt just for a second yes sir I just want to point out that the $115,000 in park a four is for that project um we've already seen that in the CIP to do um the excavation necessary underneath court number five and resurface reconstruct court number five resurface all of the courts that's what all that's for in the in the general fund that that $115,000 project is for all of that and that's for this year it's in the proposed 2425 general fund budget okay and so if we're bringing that that part of the tennis court surface up would some of the storm water tanks in in that area when we first started talking about storm water tanks at the Civic Hub what we were steering kimley horn away from were anything that would be REM unnecessarily removing an amenity so for instance you're not going to tear up Nancy Hansen and put you know you're not going to tear up trees and put no you're not going to do that we also said don't look at tennis courts first because you've got green space out here that you can look at for that so my understanding correct me from wrong Molly is that there wasn't and still to this day no plan for underground storage Vault tanks under any of the tennis courts for that reason that was only just discussed in the the planning phases um but that also was discussed before we knew for a fact that we needed to remove 172 Square ft minimum from the contractors that came out and gave the bid so if you are tearing it up it's an opportunity that's one court that is just that one section of court right and the other courts don't need to be torn up no so how much storm water vating could get under one court and you got to get it the storm water there too to that court so that's why I don't know how feasible it would be may it may be it may not be but I my my understanding was the Green Space areas are perfectly eligible for this why would we tear up a tennis court okay yeah and the shuffle sh and shuffle board court um but that is the area that was tentatively proposed for the um the the stage area Band Shell Band Shell stage so we didn't want any vertical improvements on top of the storm tanks okay thank you thank you okay so we are at 530 uh p.m. here uh let's just take a couple things side by side I mean it is my opinion that storm water is very important as I've said in the past I have not and I do believe improving storm water at the Civic Hub will obviously help I I am not or have not seen that that is the best way to use CRA money to fix storm water challenges there could be another $200,000 one block to the west or a pump or a piece of equipment or something I don't bear the burden to figure that out today either but I do accept that I don't know and so I I have a bit of a reluctancy to just say yes however knowing that we own property over time strategically like we were talking about Parkson Rex I think that without disrupting amenities such as trees and things and uh or Services we provide yes let's do storm water and with that though the Civic hub for what it was budgeted for was was largely not for those things and so I think it's important to recognize and I'm not talking about the $43,000 in those projects um but out of the big ones that one as far as a community need as far as meeting blight as the CRA says that project is not justified in my opinion to be the highest priority project and that's why was a medium-term 2 to sevene goal um step one acquire it has happened to Jam storm water in under you know an area where you can just I would rather if Council wants to move that one forward do it right not just keep it uh alive uh for the sake of just storm water I'm for making progress on the the the Civic Hub um just for the sake of all the wonderful things that that could offer there's no denying that but it just doesn't make sense today Oak Lane makes 100% sense to me today and so I would like to first see if we have I mean I think that the best way to do this is to take the re uh well it's 1.4 so to take the Civic Hub and push it forward a year with a you can keep the same amount of money um but for this year we we should add in a line item called Oak Lane or move it and put the $550,000 there and then have the presidential streets 1.2 million focused on that's how much money we're willing to put in to do a variety one project many projects some tests some Pilots 1.2 million goes with that and we got 500,000 left over and we don't have to if we're going to spend that money on anything hold it pay and and have it ready to see these big if statements yes we need to see if that's going if they can redirect the water if that's going to work and so so have that money ready doesn't have to be spent and it would give us plenty of room to reduce taxes um so those are those are my thoughts something that I think the community needs I'm willing to do Oak Lane I do think Civic Hub needs to be pushed out um what the minimal cost on Civic Hub if there's a Next Step minimal cost that makes everyone feel better we can do that but for me this year I don't see that being a project and that gives us enough money to get Oak Lane and leave $500,000 so that's thank you uh board member Davis I I kind of confused here because Tim has said that the presidential Street in oaklane excuse me in the Civic Hub should be done at the same time their sister projects so if you cut out the the Civic Hub when we go to do in the future it's going to cost more to get it done so I don't understand why we just wouldn't do them at the same time otherwise it's going to cost you more because they're they're going to sister they're trying to include them both right correct at the same time because we have to pay for flooding things these aren't flooding projects this is 2.4 million that's going to go largely to not flooding it's storm water projects yes the if we read the CR2 um budget sheet on what the million is yes a portion of it but the Civic cup grand plan is is an amenity well we knew it would go in stages and the first stage was for storm water so we knew we weren't going to get it done overnight and it would take several years yes it well I think there'll still be storm water funds there it just there'll be the 500 left but you're and the F and the other a arpa money another 500,000 so we could sister the two projects together and have that money deal with the storm water part of the project also Nancy Hansen needs work bad yes it needs a new roof it needs sofa and f fcia s and fascia it hasn't it's got electrical from the it seems like the 60s um you know so that's an existing piece of our community up there that is still going to be part of that Civic Center and it needs work yes it does and that's the outside looks fine but seriously the inside is needs to be stepped up and needs to be renovated and look great and you know so it is part of the you know maintenance of things that hasn't had any attention as well it needs new roof agreed board member Willis uh yeah I've got photos of the electrical problems that uh we we actually have employees sitting there in front of that yeah um that we need to and there's also photos of the uh building are these all the same okay packet yeah there's a packet photos of the building the tennis court Etc things that need to be done uh there's an extra one for public records or Todd um if if we were going to remove funds from the general fund and switch things over to the CRA I'd like to see those funds that we did have in the general fund go to fixing what we have existing over there in the Nancy Hansen area I mean that that needs work I mean if you look at the electrical picture I mean there's duct tape and cardboard I am all about that I I think that I mean I that to me yeah yes I'm just as passionate over storm water as council member uh as board member Jackson but if we're going to redirect some funds let's fix some real things and you know these are these are easily identifiable real things that need to be upgraded and fixed and uh uh make the people that use our facilities happy and that goes back to let's take care of what we have yeah and that that is what needs to happen before we build new things we need to maintain um we need to address some of these things and one thing when I visited um the Nancy Hansen and the tennis courts and everything it was a an off peak period this week not even it was a Friday and I'm going to tell you something it was busy there were a lot of people out there using those courts that area generates the city some Revenue back that helps with things but we shouldn't ignore it so and truly I mean I'm I'm appreciative that you you shared the photo because I was pretty astounded as somebody coming from the tech world on this electrical alone but um we could make that facility be a world class situation much nicer where our people that utilize that would enjoy it and it's something we've already got that hasn't had the attention Mr chair yes in order to make Nancy Hansen world class I think we would have to raise it but uh um I think we that uh this this board and probably Council um doesn't have the stomach to maintain the Civic Hub or consider the Civic Hub as a storm water resolution uh but I would still like to see us considering it and keep that at the four but if we're going to bring funds out of this general fund if we're going to reallocate a project out of the general fund into the CRA I think we need to take general fund monies where we can and put them into Nancy Hansen fix all of that and that would be something that uh Council will have to do with the uh September 3rd budget meeting okay so where're $2.6 million I would say without getting I mean if it's the next step with the Civic Hub I mean it was to spend a million on storm water improvements this the storm water improvements if we took that that those specific improvements and moved them to next year right it's it's really about this year's budget so we can move forward so instead of even debating the amount if if that's what it is all I'm saying is move that next year and and honestly every year we can look at it and decide but there's a point where that becomes the highest priority the storm water needs to be done well that frees up a million dollar in this year and so that million dollars half of it could pay for Oak Lane and then we could put $100,000 into improving Nancy Hansen new roof new electrical and take the other $400,000 and reduce your expenses so we can provide a meaningful savings to the big Global problem of inflation until we reduce expenses and taxes we're not going to do our part and we can do it this year there's plenty of of money and we don't need to I think redirect the general fund there's plenty right there and to reduce it and so if it's 2.6 can we get it down to 2.2 2.3 but basically fund the Nancy Hansen Improvement make that a CR seven project cr8 Oak Lane and then take Civic Hub move it forward year and we can uh have a 100,000 into Nancy Hansen um 515 or whatever it was for that that's $600,000 uh $400,000 reduce and do a um and I think that's a good thing we're at 542 the pictures are definitely what the CRA is for is to fix blight poor Nancy Hansen is blight well Mr chair yes we actually don't know exactly what that's going to cost but we got $100,000 we can put towards it and I think that's going to fix the fix the roof I know it'll do that and I know there's and uh well registered agent did you get any estimate on cost for Nancy Hansen when we were talking about that no sir uh that that can be I think estimated um yeah could I wonder if it could be provided by September 3rd but even if it couldn't why can't we just say make a $100,000 in improvements that's fine and there's contingencies there's money in other places the city manager has Authority within the fund to move money over um yeah if Mr chair yes I'm sensitive to your comment that we're running out of time and I'm just trying to gather some consensus for the the minutes m so that the finance department knows what to be prepared for as I understand it there may be consensus here for CR2 which is a Civic Hub to move to fiscal year 2526 that entire amount of $ 1,50,000 there may be consensus to add CR a new CR7 for Nancy Hansen recreational Rehabilitation of $100,000 put that in 2425 there may be consensus for creating a new cr8 for Oak Lane in the CRA for $550,000 um if that's all correct um I would just ask for Clarity on is there any desire to move anything else um cr1 which is Canaveral Park Redevelopment cr4 Traffic Safety public art cr5 the lightning protection and cr6 the concession stand is there possibly concession uh consensus to leave those as is as proposed if so then um I the only thing I would need Clarity on is the remaining reductions that may result from going to below roll back would come out of cr3 presidential streets we should have plenty of room for that to not happen y I did not I mean are those three smaller project I think what you said I'm okay with unless I haven't heard the Council on these other projects as much I know board member Jackson expressed some concern but well I would like to push the public art installation because I think we need to do some traffic studies we're having a lot of a lot more traffic in our area last Sunday we had 528 completely shut down both directions caused a massive traffic jam and then yesterday we ended up having a rollover on 528 so distracted driving seems to be a thing that we are might it might be an issue out there in our world today so it concerns me putting art in the middle of an intersection um personally so that one is not a have to have type of item I would like to push that one out um for consideration later so that we could even look at some studies also look at the maintenance cost because paint Fades and this is Art so you'd have to repaint it when it fades and look at location and things like that and take a little more consideration before we um do anything with that one so that one I'd like to push out Mr chair yes um the traffic safety public art installations would be on city streets not on the state's roads so it would be under a 25 mph speed limit um but I you know I I have no problem with pushing it out but I would love to see the 15,000 go toward Nancy Hansen I agree I agree okay that puts a 15% contingency right so we're M uh board member Davis I'm fine with that okay so what you said I think you could maybe say it with that amend sure what was the amount for Nancy Hansen take out the go ahead Vice chair take out the traffic safety public and take that 15,000 and add it to the 100,000 that we 115 so it would be 115 to start Nancy Hansen okay so let me recap my understanding um CR2 we would move to 2526 CR four we would move to 2526 we would add a new CR7 for Nancy Hansen at 115,000 we would add a new cr8 for Oak Lane at 550,000 and then we would reduce the presidental presidential streets with whatever remaining Cuts need to come out of the CRA budget excuse me I don't I mean I've never been asked about consensus so I I don't think that I've agreed to anything and consensus I may be you know whatever but I will not I'm against removing the Civic Hub well I think we're just making sure we're getting all the changes I think fine with that but except understood he said that we had consensus to do and I don't think we've ever done a consensus sorry I say we had consensus I just wanted to clarify we didn't I didn't do it the City attorney brought up a good point that um moving the CR2 out 2526 leaves that million 50,000 Gap we know 550 is coming out of that for oaklane but there's still other monies in the Civic Hub that that Gap that need to come out so I think better said is move CR2 move cr4 add CR7 add cr8 and then whatever has to be reduced come out of the remainder of the Civic hub first for 2526 and if more is needed come out of presidential streets but yeah CR7 and eight add-ons we know the estimated cost of those roughly the goal would be to reduce the budget not spend all of it yeah and fill it with projects that's so however it shakes out if we manage to next time we see this we're moving those two we're adding those two will'll know what's left for civic or for presidential streets or any other remaining funds whatever that um undesignated balances we can decide that the next CR board meeting in September yeah it should be three or 400,000 yeah thank you undesignated currently yeah thank you um where okay I'm sorry City attorney you're right the undesignated characterization is correct [Music] mhm yeah and the goal was to find uh some room so we could reduce the revenue I like that good at the end of each do you have to ear Mark pay off debt though or is that no could no it could be designated for a specific project it just can't be held in a kitty with no designation whatsoever otherwise when you look at the Statue there's a possib ility where the money goes back to the taxing agencies and undated and they'll I think they'll get it fine tuned yeah it all get fine tuned through the budget process but you know that's why C tend to be very specific with the with with regard to its designation of funds thank you board member Willis no he fully defined it for me thank you any is that I think yes what you said moving items two and four over adding seven and eight yep and then the remainder undesignated for now to be designated at the September CR board meeting thank you I think we just ask for consensus if there's consensus on that on all of those moves at once is everyone understand and do we have consensus any opposed okay I'll read that as consensus thank you thank you okay 553 if there's I think that's a success as far as getting through what we needed you have the clarity Joey thank you very much and really appreciate you your help and everyone who made this any final comments before we adjourn and head into the next one okay a motion to adjourn I'll make a motion we adjourn second meeting adjourned