well good evening it's 5:30 so I call the uh Advisory board for culture and Leisure Services board meeting to order um secretary will you call the role Mary moscara Angela trulock here Kathy Parks here Joel Fair here and and Elizabeth rock all right thank you on our agenda we have uh item one first off is there any public participation for our meeting this evening these these are for okay I'll find them all right yes we do have uh public parti participation councilman Willis you're up good evening thank you uh just wanted to briefly say how much I appreciate your work that you're doing in your sacrifices to be doing this job believe me I know how tough it can be I know that you probably hear some things you don't appreciate at times but I want to thank you for what you do thank you for putting yourselves out and continue the good thank you thank you very much that is a great way to start the meeting thank you all right um has any everyone had a chance to look at the agenda okay any discrepancies with the agenda if not do anyone recommend that we approve the agenda as is all right okay uh motion made by Kathy parks to approve the agenda as is seconded by Betsy Ron all in favor I I all right everyone had a chance to uh review the minutes from our meeting in January on the 25th any issues with those minutes all right I would motion that we approve the minutes motion made thank you and second all in favor I all right thank you all right our first uh action item today is election of culture and Leisure Services Board officers um we have I don't know if all of you have this I have this so I'll just walk us through what the election looks like each member has been provided two ballots one for each officer position um um I will introduce them and then uh we'll each make a mark on the box next to the person they nominate and then Samantha will collect the ballot so so it's not just a nomination that's your vote for that person correct yes okay thank you for clarification so we each have um a vote for a chairperson and a vote for a vice chair chairperson does everybody have that in front of them perfect uh so I'll introduce who we're voting for we'll each mark them we'll turn them into Samantha um she'll organize them by the board member with the most nominations to the least nominations and then uh then we'll go through the process of asking the person with the most nominations for that position uh if they accept the nomination and then go down the line says if the nominee declines the board can either revote or start the process over or the chair can ask the member with the second most nominations any questions about that thoughts on that okay um well for the election of cultural Leisure Services Board officers we have two officers um so the first one that we'll do is we'll vote for vote once for the chairperson nomination so if you have that in front of you we're doing the chair chairperson nomination hopefully everyone has a riding utensil so just make your vote and then we'll turn it into Samantha you can hand to Molly and she'll pass them thanks Molly we want to do this one completely all the way through and then do the second one or do the second one now what what would be your advice be um it would probably be good to do the chairperson first because that way somebody doesn't end up with both jobs perfect accidentally sounds excellent all right let's do that then everyone has their ballot turned in correct all right Samantha when you get a chance will you read off the results of the ballot um the person with the most nominations the person with the most nominations is Joel fair for chairman okay thank you um I respectfully decline the nomination thank you very much okay who had the okay so now at this point board we can either go with the person who had the second amount of votes or we could revote um it's I think it's up to us so what would you recommend revote by okay with the revote perfect perfect thank you all right so everyone should have another ballot again we're voting for the uh the chairperson of the board and Mark your ballots and then you can hand them to M uh to Molly please do we have all the votes turned in excellent secretary if you would read off who has the most votes please the person with the most votes for chairperson is Kathy Parks excellent Miss Parks will you accept the nominee for the chair yes excellent thank you we swap or should we just move hold on so the next step in this is um that some now that she has accepted the nomination uh someone needs to make a motion and then second and then do a roll call okay uh I will motion that we accept Miss Parks as the chairperson for the culture and Lees Services Advisory Board okay um motion by Joel far second by Miss Betsy Ron all in favor I right congratulations so this also effectively means that Kathy you are no longer eligible for the chair so um to save the musical chairs if you want to just uh slide your gav over um I I will say that my first meeting which is also your first meeting and I was elected the chair on my first meeting so that was very surprising for me so you've had a little bit of a of a ramp up so that's great all right um the second the second vote that we have for tonight oh that's for you sorry um we're now voting for the vice chair U my name is off of that so if you marked your ballots we get that done the vice chairman nominated was Mary moscara do you accept congratulations do you accept the nomination yes I I would make them make the motion for Mary mcara to take the position of Vice chair for the board all in favor I done we're making Miley work looks like the next thing on the agenda is to review the post the schedule for nonp partner League use of the Courts at Nancy Hansen Recreation Complex and make a recommendation to city council and we are looking at the paperwork that she just gave us there any discussion board chair may I um do a little preliminary explanation of something that needs to happen business-wise for this say that again may I give a little introductory Absolut okay this is this is something that um our board is somewhat unique because everybody here participates somehow in our the the business that our department does so just like last year um when we reviewed the uh Ballfield or the rental fees Joel Joel had to recuse himself so some of you I know most of what you do as far as engagement because you've told me um but just in case um I wanted to say if you are a member or player on a non-partner Athletic League that uses the Nancy Hansen Recreation Center whether it's tck tennis or pickle ball the pickle ball league is relatively new for our community um and I'm specifically meaning those playing with I think it's called the Florida pickle ball league Incorporated um that's the specific League that plays out of our our courts uh you are welcome to participate in the discussion portion of this item but you highly encouraged to recuse yourself from the vote if you plan to recuse yourself you must complete a form that Samantha has on hand here um and then State at the time of voting that you are recusing yourself on the record prior to voting okay this year um the recommendation for the revision uh of the fee is what from staff that's what I'm trying to find out with looking at the the revenue so far and it's kind of difficult because um you'll notice that I I couldn't really use the fiscal year um if we go back to we typically do our fiscal years here from October through September so if I took this data only by fiscal year you would have some really lopsided data because the community center didn't open until May we didn't really start charging residents until October there was another change I believe um after that and with some of the other things we don't have a full scope the only thing that we have a full one-ear snapshot on is the changes that have happened at Nancy Hansen and it's kind of hard to tell uh from just the numbers Alone um but the income between March of 2022 and February of 2023 which is the best most up-to-date snapshot I could give you guys with the date of our meeting was uh four 46,49 in change and the current year March 23rd through uh February of 2024 um that's at oh sorry this is the C5 um is it 75 5,133 in change so the growth of that is very very similar to the growth of the Nancy Hansen and in the same corresponding years 22 to 23 it's a little over 177,000 and for 23 24 it's a little over 32,000 so there's a lot of growth there and I cannot 100% attribute it to the fee schedule change because we're also getting more people playing and um especially at the C5 more people that are are learning about the facility and and using it so there's a lot of variables involved um but I think that the current fee structure has put us on a good trajectory um I've brought both facility managers here they're welcome to come up and speak and answer questions um if you'd like to know the the feedback that they get at the front desk when when they tell people the price because sometimes that's that's pretty telling um but uh my recommendation is to leave these alone at least until we prepare for the fiscal year 2425 budget season so this time next year um to see if this trajectory proves correct because as it stands now we're looking at considerable growth in the right direction for both attendance and um financially mhm oh sorry um there's history here with the Tennis League but um how did it come to be that they there's all a difference in cost per player they were based on the average age groups of the players that were involved the um one of the T ladies tennis teams is a 50 plus or 55 55 plus and that actually Bridges our Gap a little bit because our seniors are considered seniors of 62 so some of their players fell into the senior category I'd say a majority but some of them did not and then there was also the resident versus non-resident thing that's why Gustavo set that price at the lowest and then it just kind of went up from there so have these prices changed over the years that the leagues have been in in force with the exception of the addition of the pickle ball league these prices haven't changed since I started at at Nancy Hansen in 2014 I I guess uh I would I think that it should kind this should definitely be looked at and um possibly be looked to be ma made more Equitable here um I've had people come to me about this uh in particular particular and and some of the other issues too um multiple people and um feeling that it should just be Equitable across all groups and um if we were to do that if we were to make it Equitable for all and just make it $5 per player for all leagues um we would actually end up increasing our revenue from $4,400 to $5,500 a year and I I think what we have to also keep in mind is that in this next um fiscal year it's looking to resurface Nancy Hansen Courts at the cost of $40,000 so um which they're needed definitely um but everybody will then reap the benefit of better courts and better striping and all of that kind of stuff so um or if we decide you know $5 is too much then at least make it Equitable everybody pays $4 or whatever um I I think it's really hard to when it's not a it's a nonpartnered it's not a league that is a city sponsored issue uh it's just more or less people renting the space for their use uh it then they should all be treated the same I guess as my theory not it shouldn't really depend upon how old the person is if they're renting the space they're renting the space Sher may I speak to that I have a question um yes as we think about pickle ball being uh more expensive than tennis just from a cost per player aspect is that due to um length on the on the court is that due to um more demand for pickle ball use and so we can because there's a higher demand we can make it a higher cost um or can you come up to Marcy that would be fantastic yeah the the pickle ball didn't really Blossom until after I was already out of that department so she's my resident expert literally resident yeah if you wouldn't mind just giving us some history to uh both tennis and pickleball use at Nancy Hansen and why we would maybe have a discrepancy in the cost sure well like Molly stated when I started with the Nancy Hansen the tennis fees were already set and I do um I did approach her about as we were building both tennis and pickle ball are we going to keep the the and here where we are today um Florida pickle ball this is for the State of Florida is a new league and so it's was new to everybody um and I was approached if certain teams can use Nancy Hansen as their home team and I talked to my director and we said yes and we came up with the $5 fee and that's where we stand okay great and and just to add a little to that in history because I some people who are on this approached me on this is um it's not $5 everywhere they go correct so different if they play in Melbourne it might be a different pricing and and such so it's not like the league we are actually the most expensive place where everybody plays for for the Florida pickall leag and then you can kind of see and this was I think the other thing that um I don't know how often this happens Marcy you would know but when either of the three tennis leagues are playing then they use all the courts and there is no pickle ball those days so that impacts the pickle ball people whereas when the pickle ball people are playing it's only in the afternoons when there is no open pickle ball and they're only playing on the three courts so you could still play tennis correct correct okay okay I just want I just wanted to kind of that was very good information that you added there so every everybody was kind of aware how that how you try to schedule all that craziness and I want to make a comment there too just because um you know we've been playing with the pickle ball and um you know this is the only place that Kate paval ever had to play tennis um and I I think there should be a senior rate we get you know most of us are I I'll be 71 next week you know most of us are up there on Social Security literally I mean you get discounts with a ARP everywhere you go on meals and um I just think you should keep that and one of the reasons it's it's very hard um and we can probably lose the chance to be at teams if the pickle Ballers are playing the same time we are because they're they're loud I mean just hit I mean you need all the courts I get yeah no that's not that's not an option at all but I guess if if you want to go that route then then you should just charge everybody based on their age and but then do you B charge them based on being a resident or a non-resident or you know if you were going to charge each league saying okay like Molly said it's really not you know senior until you're 62 well then only resident seniors are going to get this and if you're a non-resident because you're here playing somebody who is a resident then you pay the higher rate and you know it's uh I will also say that a lot the majority of the Florida Pall league players are seniors as well I I I kind of figured that too yeah but that just makes it more difficult for the office right and and it's much easier for you if everybody just pays comes in for their league they pay the same amount than to try to figure out how old are you and how much should you pay are you a resident are you a non-resident type thing that that would be more of a nightmare for the staff right Madam chair may I speak yes of course um working the front desk over there for I think I was at the front desk for about three years um there is nothing more confusing than when the tennis a new season of tennis um with I think we formerly had a USA league and then the the Space sets at the time um when they didn't know who their opponent was because they typically when they come in they pay for themselves and their opponent if they didn't know their opponent's age and residency status they're standing there looking at me like I'm crazy um and there was really no way for them to know that until they showed up because sometimes there were cancellations sometimes there was swaps sometimes they sent a substitute and didn't tell anybody so I think that was part of the reason that Gustavo had set the flat rate just to get them in make it simple good customer service and get them out of the office and onto the court where they want to be def definitely well that's what I'm saying maybe it's the easiest for staff and for everybody to just set one cost per player for League end of story doesn't matter what league doesn't matter your age doesn't matter if you're resident nonresident um it it could be easier it could also lose uh the revenue that you are getting from uh the the seniors that are playing right now that would not play so I mean you're it's I think you're right I think if we're just talking about ease of Staff that's the way to go I'm not sure that's all we're talking about um my other question for you miss Rock was you said $40,000 for refinishing is that on the fiscal year 25 budget 2425 this next coming year yeah um fiscal year 25 starts in October correct the 2 we've already started getting quotes and at this point um we're looking at two two separate options and it'll depend on uh council's input um when I get when John and I get to the reports I talk about the upcoming CIP meeting um if you ever have time to kill on Google Earth uh look at the Nancy Hansen and play with the slide rule on the years and I can tell you every year that the tennis court has been resurfaced and within a few months if you slide that rule over it goes from perfect to weird Shadow on court five and that weird Shadow on court five is a a depression um we took advant AG of uh an opportunity in planning for the um storm water components of the of the Civic Hub and I asked uh the city manager if we could do a geotechnical evaluation which if you've been on the courts and you see these weird little holes that's where they boarded down the uh prevailing thought was that there was a um an artisian well um I don't know if you know but you are now living in what used to be the town of Aria named for its Wells um uh we didn't confirm that that was what was under there but the geotechnical survey did say you have a problem so uh the last time these courts were redone was in 2016 the depression appeared back via satellite image within six months um and now it is to the point where uh they put like a mesh coating over top before they put the asphalt and the you know the colored components and the lines you can see the fibers and yes you can getting flipped Y and dangerous it it is um uh right now it's a little bit less than a quarter of an inch um but it it needs to to be repaired properly it needs to have that section cut out uh whatever is causing this depression needs to be address so that'll require some excavation and then beyond that uh it'll need to be put back and resurfaced so 40,000 is the number for resurfacing the other number will be much higher so uh [Music] we're kind of you know hoping that Council will give us some guidance on which the way they want to take it and um we'll go from there the the numbers you were sharing earlier Miss Ron about uh you did some math if you were to level out the cost per player at 5 per person you said that was about a $700 change in the annual revenue no it's a $1,100 $1,100 change okay yeah I'm just I'm thinking that $1,100 is is good um it's still just a drop in the bucket of $40,000 so or more um and if if we were to to actually lose um some of the revenue because we Chang we raised the price for seniors that could be uh well I mean I guess it just comes down to if you want to give seniors a break then give all seniors a break okay I mean one way or the other or split the middle and go for $4 because adult residents pay $4 to play now anyway so um so maybe just make it $4 for everybody especially since tennis hasn't raised their price prices in 10 years um in this day and age I I don't think that's unreasonable to ask another dollar or two dollars or whatever in over 10 years time one more question that's per day correct that that charges per day not per game per day okay per per the for that day player perit for that time thank you there any other discussion motion and I'm recusing myself here I would motion to uh maintain the cost as is um per recommendation of staff and uh for continuity well I I would make a motion then to make it Equitable uh I think that we'll handle this I can't have two motions at one time and Joel made his first okay is there a second to that motion yes I'll second all in favor I oose I'm ask for oppose we don't usually have aose but we can ask for a okay I'll I pose it so you didn't ask motion carries to leave it where it is right now so just to confirm all is in favor for Joel's motion is that correct and I did not vote yes you're refused the motion Carri to one to one thank you okay we're ready for staff reports uh actually no or do we have another another issue oh wait a minute for Community Fair sorry for is there a recommendation from staff on this one this would be another one where I would say keep it the same at least for another year just for the consistency sake to see if it produces continues to produce an upward trajectory in data I I have one question and this has been brought up to me multiple by multiple people in the community and I think Marcy could probably speak to this very well and that is the number of well the the what people tell me okay nonresident people pickle ball players who are not paying and and that is very common that they just don't go inside and pay and um and they talk about it on the court and that's how it came to me is people were telling me that they know of all these people who don't pay that come because they don't like the fact that it's so expensive to play here as a non-resident especially the senior nonresidents when you go Coco Beach and pay for play for $2 and you come here and you have to pay $4 and so the question that people have brought up to me which I I know we've brought up once before and discussed the logistics could be had to be would be have to be thought through is to somehow fence off that and make all the people go through and like they do at this you know C5 where everybody's very has to pay to get in um is there would there be a way to somehow do that so that you have to force people to come into the West entrance through pay and then go on to play interestingly you've mentioned that um we've discussed that a couple times um ESP in the last like year and a half uh that has been a battle um also if you have uh time to kill you could go around that facility and count how many signs I have made that are still up there that say please pay before you go in the court eventually I stopped putting please um that has been a challenge since the day I started uh when this became a little bit more when the courts got busier it got even harder to control and we have brought that up it'll be something that I'm going to have to work with our building official on and our fire department because we can't trap people inside the courts and right now um the back sides of the gates are usually locked um so we will actually have to come up with a way um because people are smart and people remember how you got in the movie theater when you were a teenager so we would actually have to find a way to allow egress out without people letting friends in the back door so it's uh definitely something that's been discussed if that's something that you would like staff to look into further you can let us know that um but definitely that has been a challenge for us since day one and Once Upon a Time people would come in and tattle and that was very helpful but eventually that stopped so well and I think you know I just doing some easy calculations on the number of people I've asked around to people like how many people do you think on a regular basis play pball but it's hard to know because people are coming and going all morning you know luckily at least now they're supposed to pay once you know doesn't matter how long you stay and play and all that but the dollars just aren't aren't there they're you're not making the money for the number of people that are playing in a daily basis because um I've had people now counting more or less throughout the morning to see how many people are really playing and people who know people coming and going and they're saying on a daily average there's probably at least 50 or more people who come to play Pickleball and so that's like 250 Plus people a week and you're not making that kind of money on pick ball people um I'm sorry if I may speak up are you saying you've been told there's at least 50 people that are on the court that have not no no not no not that don't pay I'm just saying overall you know like from the time that you start open in the morning through let's say one o'clock when most people are kind of like leaving not playing too much in the afternoon um some of the people play a couple hours and leave and other people come and go and blah blah you know all that kind of stuff but but people who have kind of um counted at different times throughout the day to see how many people are there you know if you've got five courts or six courts going with four people that's 24 people and you've got at least 20 people waiting right there you've got 45 people on the court at that time and that's a very common occurrence especially at this time of the year so that's why they're kind of saying well to say that you'd have 50 people in a day coming is not an unusual number at least during this heavy season I think is where these people are coming up with these numbers and yes the people telling me this are Cape Cano residents because they're not happy because they know a lot of these people because they play here a lot are from coko Beach and they feel like you know I'm paying my money because you know I get a good rate or that a lot of them say they get a monthly um membership because it's a good deal and it's really not that bad of a deal if you got a monthly membership as a non-resident either but when there's no way to monitor it's like Molly says you know people coming in sneaking into the theater they realize nobody knows there's so many people coming and going out there I mean even if you sat out there you you would never figure it out and it's sad I guess it's a very sad thing when they tell me this because I just feel I trust people maybe more than you should that people talk about it even I mean they're as Brazen to talk about how well no I'm not going to pay you know six bucks to come play here or you know a day or I'm not going to pay $4 a day because that's a ripoff I you know so and so only charges $2 a day or whatever it's like well then go play there you know and some people get it's even gotten kind of testy out there I guess and that's the only reason I bring this up is is if we there if there could be again and I know we've talked about it in the past if if if they could look into a better way to logistically figure that you know that would be my new catchphrase is control the space pardon control the space that's one of the challenges that we face at a lot of our facilities our events our Parks being able to control that space without literally putting eight foot fences around everything um is is definitely a challenge and unfortunately you know this becomes if it is one of the nicer places Outdoors to play pickle ball in the area hence the reason it attracts so many people um and it's unfortunate that you can't capture the adequate Revenue you know to support that that that's all I'm saying question um Marcy currently what is the uh egress off of all the courts like if you were to have something happen and you need to get everybody off the court do they only go through the one gate that they come in um is there a possibility like these breaker bars on these kind of doors I've seen them on Gates also if we were to install some of those then you've got one-way access for emergency evacuation right that has a spring closes it itself but no one's ever going to have any issues with uh emergency evacuation at that point what about those things that I've seen at some too where they you know they kind of go around yeah and but you can't get back in you can that's not actually great for emergency evacuation four people one of those and it's not good yeah we have talked about the the the push button door or the like you said breaker bar door um because that that has been an issue in the past um historically the fire department actually pulls up on the side of um Filmore and one of the days uh probably one of my worst days at work one of our tennis players had a heart attack on the court and I'm watching the fire department just drive around the block and realizing that I don't have a key to the back gate because nobody had a key to the back gate at that time that's changed now and all staff has access to it but those were precious seconds that we could have saved luckily nothing happened to Marty and he's well and fine today much lower sodium intake and takes good care of himself but that could have ended way worse just because um at that time they actually had the wind screen going over the door too so but with a breaker bar you could still have a key that would open it from the other side so I mean you you would have the same issues that except you would have emergency egress which would allow you to uh Monitor and constrict entrance right because you would have emergency egress in other places right you know what I'm saying so I'm just trying to think through some of Mr Rock's concerns and how could we address them um I'm there in the morning normally between 7:45 and 8:00 um we have the lady that there is open we pretty much know everybody that's in the morning groups that come in there are people that do come in sometimes it's a at a minimum this is not a problem I mean we'd like to capture everything but it's like Molly said there are always going to be people who try to get around uh if you put some system in place they first thing they want to do is try to figure a way around it uh so it's not widespread a lot of perception that people have and I hear it they they come directly to me because I'm there on the spot and as I talk to them and as start asking questions a lot of times you find out it's not as bad as what their initial perception was or if you want um to ask ask a particular question you know that you can take some action on then they don't want to they don't want to provide that um but we do a good job over there Marcy comes in 9:30 in the morning uh Dan is there first thing in the morning I'm there we I've got Windows right out onto the courts U and when you do this five six days a week you learn even the uh folks we have come down from up north we learn them know their name um so it's it's in hand it's not perfect but it's not horrible either I apologize Madam chair for not asking to speak first I'm sorry sor well it's gu to give some thought to you know um what we've talked about for so many years to see what possibly could be done Joe's got a good idea there too and you know that's something we can price out for the upcoming budget yeah I ask another question yes I'm I'm looking for a fee schedule for non um League use of Nancy Hansen or sorry uh you have the fee schedule review and and Revenue data for the C5 and for the Pavilion and for the ball fields but I didn't see one for Nancy Hansen um at least printed out maybe it was on the electronic one yeah it is but um she gave us one too she gave us okay thank you okay got it yep thank you oh I had one one other question Molly I'm sure you can answer or whomever uh at the C5 um in this revenue is that um thank you is that just the regular memberships or is that also include those uh people who get like the silver sneaker thing are they a different category the the day passes or what however the revenue from those people are have those special um let me double check the originals agreements whatever you call those things the insurance um Insurance beneficiaries I think is I know you have a lot of those over at the C5 I just didn't know if they fell into a different category or not or see where that is I think it falls into a different category but I can't remember remember if I added this or not I was looking at the current budget that was adapted and I was trying to figure out where those people fell all right so the [Music] 75 133 number does not contain that Revenue let me see where if I brought it with me yeah I didn't bring that one with me but that does not include this because they are not subject to your fee schedule right right and so I was just looking at the current budget I think line items and I wasn't sure where they fell that I was just curious so they the amount that that has brought in from all three is in addition to the 75,100 and change um the insurance benefit revenue is $2,143 in change and then and then as far as the the classes is that what falls under the contractor fees independent contractor fees do they pay a fee a percentage of their they pay 25% they pay they pay the facility 25% of what they take they pay the city 25 % pardon they pay the city 25% of that's what I'm saying is they pay 25% based upon how many participants are coming to pay them and what those participants pay right they set their own yes ma'am and that's what's called the independent contractor fees are for those classes okay that's what I thought okay I just was I was just curious um what that was because I was looking at the revenue expected Revenue um in the budget that was expected this year which obviously is is not looking good because it was put in there that for 23 24 they were going to make which is you know goes up until October $200,000 in revenue and it looks like you're making about half of that I didn't bring those numbers with me today yeah that's what I got so um I guess even if we leave it the same I guess budgeting will have to consider that next year that the the 25% you mean no no just in general all of the revenue made by anything that's um Park and wreck all revenue if you added up yes we've already started that process yeah and last year they they they adopted a budget that said it was going to be $200,000 in Revenue that was going to be made by Park and wreck in any facility rental Friday Fest you know everything all together and uh just looking at the U amount that isn't being made at Nancy Hansen or Court rentals or C5 or whatever um hopefully they'll be able to give the the budget people better numbers this year based upon what you did actually do this year because they fell so short that's all I'm saying of course because last year it was you know they had put in that it was going to be 250,000 and I know that was debatable but um obviously that didn't make it either so they downgraded that vastly for the C5 probably good so and and I mean I know that the council and the budg all you guys working heavily on the budget try to do your best so that it's going to impact everybody's property taxes of course and that's obviously what it all comes down to will all see an increase in our property taxes no doubt well the current numbers you're using if you're using using any of these numbers are from March of last year to March of this year so that so there's fee schedules that have changed so we can't well they didn't change except for like the ball rental Fields but the others started in January of 20 but all we can have is six months of this year's budget income that we could extrapolate out to a year but those numbers aren't right in front of us right the second um so like the the numbers that even we're seeing here would be a little bit off right right right that's I see what you're saying that we're we're at like 110 and actually this number is actually better than it should have been I mean it's higher than it they you know because this is partly into the next budget Year from what this budget showed here that was that's available online so that's on I'm saying Madam chair can I add to this can I add to the conversation yes um the fees that you are presented with today that you're voting on do not include um our summer wreck program and the other programs that are price dependent on what it costs to actually operate the program so you don't have the full picture of Revenue there because that's why I pulled the budget right that shows like athletic you know income camp registration all of that you know it that because to get an accurate picture you got to look the whole thing so you know and our camp registration has increased dramatically because Byron and Shelly have added two more camps to the year that sell out as well then that's great because you have the you know capacity but that's great for the kids of the city or whoever uses it so that's good because it should be able to be fairly self-sufficient camp registration should be able to you know pay for itself in uh in in the fees that they charge for the Personnel that run it you know so that's a great thing so um I mean I I would say I agree let's we should keep the uh fee schedule the same as it's been I think we did a good job at coming up with you know you know do you want to make that motion I I would I would like to make the motion that we just leave the fee schedule the same through um I don't know what would be a good cut off time you know because in order to make a recommendation for the council or for the budget process to occur you know you're asking for it now in March but we never can have the data for a full fiscal year if you really want to look at it from a fiscal perspect perspective so if we leave it the same then come November 1st we would have a full fiscal Year's data of this of this fee schedule at which case then I think in the winter we'd have more time to look at it and say um this is good bad and and give a little bit more time for us to um give them a better recommendation to see you you know how well we're doing okay so you just to make sure I understood um the suggestion is to leave it like this um for the fiscal year period of I've been doing so much budget fiscal year stuff I'm getting myself confused for fiscal year 2425 um and then for say the October meeting of this year I can bring forward our um our full fiscal year scope for all the all the properties and then you make a recommendation to Council in preparation for Budget year 2526 is that what I'm getting unless it looks like from the data that you bring forward that the numbers are really not good and we're really and it the budget is not going to look good in which case then there might have to be again like we did the one time a change to change the fee schedule come the January 1st of 25 but that would really be I would think more of a recommendation from the council or something to say you know we're expecting more Revenue than we're getting from this situation considering the expens for Park and wreck is one of the largest you know areas here I think I pulled it up it was $2.3 Million for Park and wreck expenses so um and we're only making $200,000 so that they might say we need we need to look at relook at that fee schedule I don't know that's on them we take our guidance from whatever Council needs I guess but yeah so I would say let's just leave like take your advice and leave it as it is until we have more data and you did make that motion I did make that motion yeah all in favor I I'm recusing myself from the vote uh for the same reason that I recused myself from all these you're technically part of the broader fee schedule yes yes I I just have one question for you Joel because you you know the whole base the whole baseball thing there's no revenue for this year since last summer we've only had one rental so did oh but because the league pays in a different way is that the little league um our city based Space Coast Little League does not pay they're they're a community partner but they in all honesty as jel in ATT test they do pay because they do come out and assist with field maintenance and they run an amazing I wasn't I I wasn't sure because I I saw that there is some it says Athletic League income and I wasn't sure if that meant from Little League or that's a different thing no that's that is the city run leagues okay for pickle ball tennis currently and Byron's working on basketball as we speak got it I thought maybe it included um little league too okay we're ready to move on to the staff reports Mr Mayberry or Miss Molly thank you madam chair uh we are in the Final Phase of completion with the Patriots SP renovation uh we're down to waiting for our last load of mulch to be uh blown in probably tomorrow or the first of week and have that done we've got the um New benches and uh picnic table that Molly ordered they're there so then we've got to get those place she and I went out and did a walk around this morning and uh decided where everything was going to go so that's close to wrapping up and then if you haven't if you get a chance just to ride by there and look at the new playground equipment it's it's nice just try to ignore the car wash that's going up next to it uh and you might want to wear a mask with the Dust for um we completed the um Manatee Sanctuary Park the restroom uh renovation that we were doing over there the guys just we have two faucets left to replace and Molly and I are talking about uh putting new light fixtures in to kind of keep it in line with the everything else but the guys went in they stripped the old paint off the walls they got it wasn't muriatic acid but it was something like that that they put on the floor and that caused it to etch and then went back in and uh resurfaced and repainted them and did a really a bang up job uh everybody's you know you can be happy about a bathroom they're happy uh much nicer looking so uh the ball field baseball field we uh we should be finished with our part of replacing the old lights with the new ones either tomorrow or Monday um excuse me it won't be tomorrow because we have uh something that they are dedicated to take care of tomorrow for Saturday uh so yes probably be the first of the week uh the only thing we've got is there's the one pole that has the Transformer next to the Dugout on the east side of the field um our staff's not allowed to go near that so I'm in talks with electricians down to come out and replace those fixtures on that one pole for us um but the only thing we'll have left to do after the guys finished is to go out in the evening and U do your I call it fields of fire uh with the lights so we make sure we got coverage in all the right areas um we have the Easter egg hunt that's coming up this Saturday uh it was rescheduled from last weekend because of the weather um Nancy Hansen we are working on um replacing lights on the uh pickle ball courts right next to my office window um so Marcy can start running her night leagues over there that's been an ongoing thing but we finally got a contractor that's coming to take care of that for us uh Veterans Park Molly will speak to that in more detail I'm sure but we' have uh ordered the flag pole the new flag pole today uh should be here like six to eight week lead time hopefully that'll coincide with the completion of the project proper uh we'll be ready to go at the same time um and with all that that I just you know once again I always want to take an opportunity to remind everybody all that's done with two guys and an occasional hand from uh public works department but 90% is done with just two guys and there I like it on the record how much we appreciate them and what they do oh yes uh we also outside of the field where the department is uh really promoting training and uh Brian stry is in the process he just begun his uh certification process for a certified Park safety inspector so he'll actually be able to go out and look at all this equipment and do reports on it and uh it'll be a big Boon for the city to have that so that's Molly got certified twice uh I got certified and now Brian is and then we've got staff that are just uh there are a lot of these associations that have online courses may not have a you know a certification with it but it's a career building and it pertains to things that we do every day and the guys and ladies have been really uh proactive about jumping in and and taking this stuff so we can make the department be what it what we all want it to be good can I ask you if anybody's looked at the playground equipment at U manate park at manate Park yes ma'am we actually just got the uh Parts in to um because I know like the round swing bottom yeah there a bunch of things that are dangerous they well that's that stuff is repaired now so we had mulch blown in there got it filled back up and um it took a while because the parts that came with the U equipment originally they don't use those anymore now there's a workaround so it was a hassle getting all that stuff get but it it's all been taken care of thank you I'm glad to hear that yes me okay Molly um so I will start by piggybacking off of what John ended with with the the training one of the things that um one of my goals for uh it's going to be a multi-year process so we'll say fiscal year 2425 is to get our um our parks and recck Department accredited by the national parks and recck Association it's called a a Capra certification um my brain's fried so I'm not even going to try that acronym but it has parks and wreck and accreditation in it I promise um some of the things that we're doing um with my uh certified Park and Recreation executive uh certificate that I attained uh the the what I did day before New Year's Eve yeah that last week of December um him getting the cprp which is the next step uh before the CPR the certified parks and recreational professional um also both of two of our three facility managers have completed their facility um recreation facility Management program and then adding the playground inspector to our team uh through Brian certification will put us on track to get accredited and if we are successful in this we will be the only accredited Parks and Recreation um agency in the county to include the county because the county is not accredited either but um it's pretty it's it's uh it actually involves multiple uh Municipal departments a lot of this stuff um is actually handled very much by our risk management it's the development of emergency plans development of safety training and protocols um in addition to um using best practices for program operation for outreach for inclusivity um and of course maintenance safety standards and then having everybody um stay up to date with their professional development and do annual cus and with the National Park and Recreation Association a lot of their stuff is incredibly affordable because it's it's better for the interest of the public for people to to to understand the importance of their roles in their service to the community um so the most expensive certification you can get through them is I think $450 um and some of the some of the trainings and webinar are even free or $15 to $20 so we we take advantage of that the city has always been an RPA um participant so I look forward to uh getting that accreditation for the city um beyond that um Saturday I hope all of you have cleared your entire calendar um if you have not been out to Veterans Park um obviously still under construction but you're you're able to to kind of see the beginnings of the finished product and if you want to get on the other side of the construction tape you can be there at 8:00 a.m. on Saturday and you can help them put plants into the smart rain Garden portion of the project um uh that will go on until 10 o'clock and then you will need to um go home and change if you need to but the grand opening for the um uh Cape Center is starts at 10:30 if any of you guys wanted to come up and speak at that just let us know um our our program is pretty loose pretty casual uh it'll be very similar to what we did with the community center um I was able to get the peacock cupcakes again um there'll be Refreshments um there'll be uh we have a couple council members that are going to get up and speak and then we have a lot of our partners some of our um contractors that were active in the project w&j construction and Esa solar will be there The Bard Zoo um because they were so integral in helping us get the Bold boards exhibit they will be in attendance as well so we're excited to have them um and yeah this is it almost doesn't seem real I feel like I've been talking about this in circles since 2016 but um uh it'll be uh it'll be a good time and uh we'll have a lot of our community partner and our Community Arts Partners there including uh one of our newest instructors um and that ends at 10 that'll be over at 12 um then you'll need to hurry over to Canaveral city park for the egg hunt at two there is a brief lunch break um as you know that is like uh the Kentucky Derby it's the fastest 15 minutes in the city um so that that shouldn't take you too long but Byron's made some Chang es to it um one of the main reasons that we really wanted to um postpone it last from last week was in the interest of not having destroyed pink Easter dresses with Ballfield clay because that doesn't come out as Joel can probably attest um next up is April 1 that'll be coffee with a cop um council member Willis has uh helps organize this with bcso if if he has not come to a park near you just wait um but the next one will be out at Banana River Park on April 1st um I don't have the time for that so I'll have to Circle back to you guys uh when I have the calendar in front of me 9: a.m right straight from the source um next up after that and this will be an important one um if you are able to come this is the CIP Workshop um for those of you have been around the city for a long time we used to do an annual strategic planning last year's strategic planning was uh done somewhat in conjunction with the visioning project so it was above and beyond thorough uh Council decided we didn't need to rest strategize at that point we just needed to move forward with uh the the mission and the vision and the values that we identified so that we can properly prioritize projects and the budget based on the what what we really want to accompl for for the community and its future so that will be here in the council chambers at 1 pm. and we will be we and multiple other departments will be sharing um the future and proposed planned um projects and initiatives with Council for their consideration and recommendation I believe the agenda went out for that today um next up uh recent staff activities I I don't know if you noticed but um the conversion to the.gov has begun we can finally fit our emails on a form we're all excited um unfortunately I still keep typing.org but um for the most part all of the city emails have been upd up updated to Cape canaveral.fl so they didn't like my Ohio suggestion of saying the Cape Canaveral but we were trying to reduce letters um the anticipated roll out for the updated website with the new Cape Canaveral um. goov domain will be sometime this summer um there's a lot of moving pieces um I'm I'm kicking myself on certain things because now I have to change every single login for everything I do but um I keep telling myself it's worth it at the end um next up with state of the city um we are updating that that should be complete by the upcoming CIP Workshop there's a lot of moving pieces with that one but fingers are crossed we'll have that done and then uh quick preview for the May meeting we will have board member interviews um as you can see uh Mr Holmes is not with us today he welcomed a new grandchild and with that new responsibilities so uh when he approached me and told me that he might not be able to make a good majority of the meetings I said go go go do you like this isn't this isn't more important than a new grandbaby so he submitted his resignation about a week and a half ago and um that leaves now two vacancies on this board because uh city council did not vote on the recommendation for Miss Raymond so if um you know of anybody that that uh is interested in getting involved we're not the only board that has vacancies so encourage them to reach out to the clerk's office or hop online and get an application just same place you found them at and uh submit their application so that we can get a a good pool of of people that that are a good fit for all the respective boards I believe um Community appearance has at least one vacancy and I think Board of adjustment has one too um yep we have multiple applications already on file so um we will probably um do a ballot system similar to what we did tonight um to help streamline the process for that and then last but not least uh Samantha and and Amy provided two Flyers one for facility and uh event volunteers um those are definitely needed that's um we we don't want to create a situation where we're relying on volunteers but we do want to give people an opportunity to give back if they're interested and an extra set of hands an extra set of eyes an extra opinion even sometimes is is always welcome so if you know of anybody that has availability or they're just looking to get involved um there is a level one background screening involved which the city will will cover the fees for um but please get that out there share it with your condos share it with your neighbors um we'll we're very eager to have um a little more engagement we have a couple applications now um we even have a seasonal resident that will be back next year that filled out an application she's like I'll be back in December you can call me then like okay but I'm just glad that she's interested in doing that when she's trying to take a break you know for her for her holiday um next up uh and this will be something that we will probably be bringing back to you for a formal recommendation uh hopefully in May um as you can see the community garden has had a slight change of scenery and John and I as he mentioned uh took a walk out there and based on the current level of construction of that car wash the whole back whole South South side of the um Garden will no longer get Morning Sun at the very least um when they were out there doing the construction there was concrete dust everywhere um if you have a plot out there I would recommend rinsing thoroughly um they're not done with the construction so once the construction is complete and we see the impact of that space with an active car wash in front of it we're probably going to need to make a decision and that would be to either eliminate the garden move the Garden or reimagine the Garden in probably a different location um so we put together a survey it's got a couple basic questions that are geared towards um what Community Gardens serve as a a purpose in other communities successful Gardens um there's a whole gamut of what a community garden can do obviously we are too small to grow a big crop to feed the hungry so that's really not a huge option for us but there's a lot of different engagement options that we can do that will help somewhat with food insecurities but also for people just to have the therapeutic hands in the dirt experience as most of our condo folks don't have that opportunity unless they want to fill their patio with pots which also presents challenges to getting bags of dirt and pots upstairs so so if you could uh touch base with your neighbors um take the survey yourself whether you're involved in the garden currently or not um part of the the thing that we really need to do is grow this program if it is going to be successful so getting the the input of people that aren't necessarily already gardeners is pretty valuable as well so um that survey will remain open until May 15th and uh that'll give me enough time to synthesize the results and share that with you at the upcoming meeting if you'd like to take action on it from there and that's all I've got does anybody have any questions for me is there any other business I actually have a couple questions if that's all right um how can we serve you and John uh um in our role as Advisory Board is there anything else that you need from us besides uh drumming up more volunteers to to serve on the board to putting these out um is there anything that you can think of for us to advocate for you um that you haven't already addressed um CIP Workshop I mean that's kind of a hard one for most people to swing because it's at you know 1:00 in the afternoon on a th I think um engagement yeah and engagement in that is is important but also um yeah the really the the volunteer thing is big and and we don't we don't we won't ask a ton from our volunteers because we understand that you know people are busy and and it's difficult and it's hard to commit and um we just you know a couple hours a week or a couple hours a month would would would help us I mean even something as simple as sitting in a chair and carding people at Friday Fest and putting a little wristband on something like that can can help immensely because a lot of our um we call them celebrity beer tenders are also from uh volunteer nonprofit organizations and they're fishing out of a shallow pool too so helping them out um even with something as simple as looking at an idea and making sure that it says at least 20 23 that's hard to say um is uh is is a help to us so uh the CIB Workshop is April 4th at 1M and that is in here past years it was done at the Rison uh another question I have would be do we intend to make maintain the schedule for voting for chair um and and positions because all of our terms end in October um would you recommend continuing to have that um vote happen in March or would you want this to coincide with the end of someone's term do do you see what I'm saying like I'm trying to figure out how we could get back on schedule because I know we're a little bit off that's something um that I think this board has the ability to recommend a council um the code once I reviewed it says it's supposed to happen in January but that doesn't really make much sense either um it would make sense to me for it to be you know your your term Expo expires October 1 um this board does traditionally meet in October at the end of the month that would be to me the natural time to do it but that would need to be a recommendation from this board which you can take action on tonight if you like thought we meet November because we meet six times oh October was a special meeting last year wasn't it and we move it up um to the week before Thanksgiving usually because we do normally do uh six meetings and we do them on the odd months correct that's that's correct yeah last year's October meeting was a special meeting I forgot about that so not for the same year but for the same the date same date and so different different times yeah correct um but if you'd like to make a motion that that take place at our November meeting to be a little bit more in line with getting new people on boarding them yeah the only other thing I was thinking is you could stick with the January meeting and if for some reason the chair or if the chair rolled off um the vice chair would just convene for that meeting um and so I think if we maintain January but we just don't want to set a new precedent saying March but if you if we said January we're going to continue to vote for our um uh board positions then that would probably be which we wouldn't even need to make a motion because that's currently what it says correct yeah perfect last question Sunshine laws um I'm bumping into an issue where I don't know if I can talk to my councilman because of the way that some of the things are um because I'm sitting on this board but I'm also a resident and so I'm just trying to find Clarity on like how do I as a resident get to talk to my councilman if I if we're both on boards um and because some of the things that I submit to counsel then they vote on right and so I don't want I don't want to cross any I don't want to break any Sunshine laws right and I'm I'm trying to figure that out because um yeah obviously this last meeting there's a lot of a lot going on at city council right and and there's also an election coming up too so obviously there's there's a lot of um it it's the Sunshine Law is tricky in Florida it's as vague as it is specific um the one thing that it really does focus on is whether the conversation that's happening outside of the public Chambers is connected to something that either party or both parties would have to vote for so say you're approached by your council member and their campaigning per se um you would probably not be on the good side of sunshine to immediately start discussing things that this board has has to um has to vote on and the directive from the clerk's office is that if um a board member has a matter of business that they would like to take to council or go over and and share their thoughts with Council to do so at a public meeting as opposed to reaching out to them directly um and that just keeps everybody out of hot water um because it is it is technically a criminal offense and that makes it really challenging when you're in a tiny little town and everybody's voice matters and it's just easier to run into people and and talk to them but we still have to be on the up and up when it comes to where that happens and any other clarification on that um the Daniel or Mia in the clerk's office can um they they they can repeat that stuff in their sleep they probably do okay thank you um could we get vacant uh placards for any vacant seats that we have so that if someone were watching a meeting that we have they would very clearly see that we have two vacancies um and that would be one of the ways that we could communicate that um I like that that'll that'll be ready for the next meeting right because I think that right now it could look like we're a board of five but if we had vacant placards would be very clear that we're a board of seven with two vacancies yeah I like that I I can yeah I'll share that at our um at our next meeting um the the director that has all of the rest of the boards uh poor guy is Dave Dicky so um I think that would be helpful for him because he's had as much of a challenge over the years keeping all of his boards as as we have with this one when it comes to you know having everyone seated but that would also help um from a video perspective if there was just a legitimate absence and that person's name could still be up there but they could see okay it's still a seven member board that person's just out today so very good idea we we'll have that done by the May meeting and are we going to rename the board we bounced we threw that around a couple times I don't think we have to but we don't have to okay perfect that's sorry anything or do I have a motion to adjourn second all in favor I the motion meeting is adjourned