e e e e e good evening everyone today we have a work session meeting of the city council the city of Kate may we are here in the Cap May City Auditorium uh today is Tuesday February 6th 2024 the time is now 5:03 please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance I to the flag of the United States of America and to the repu for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you and uh just quickly we wish Aaron all the best she's not feeling well this evening and Brian is taking over throwing them right in the fire so Brian take it away all right so under the public meetings law open public meetings law notice of this meeting was sent to the Kate May County Herald and the Press of Atlantic City and a copy of the agenda was delivered to each member of city council and posted on the Cap May City website and Cap May City Hall bulletin board notice is hereby given provided that the Cap May City Council meetings are audio recorded and video streamed live live video streams are posted on the Cap May City website the city of cap May is not responsible if audio recording or live video streaming of a meeting is unavailable roll call Deputy Mayor Baldwin here council member McDade here council member Meyer here mayor mullik here council member Jagger here city solicitor Gillan Schwarz here city manager Paul Dietrich here any additions or deletions tonight Council I don't think we have any additions any delions Council none okay all right and we're moving on to the the employee of the month okay okay this evening we have uh a guy from the public works department I'm going to ask uh Frank mcclusky to come on up so uh Frank and they didn't give it he's been with the public work since 2012 started as a laborer and now is our assistant supervisor of Public Works and you know I'm just going to add Li here just a little bit Frank is one of the guys that you kind of see first thing in the morning you know especially when there's a storm going on whether it's flooding snow any wind going on he's usually one of the first people in public works hitting the streets and making sure that uh everything's out there and and making sure uh Eric is updated myself is updated we can give every Everybody updated he he lives in the villas with his uh wife and Tracy and three daughters um and he just goes above and beyond everything uh he volunteers at the Villa's fire department where as a lieutenant and a member of the dive team and where he's been going doing that for over 25 years he's a certified personal trainer and a gym athlete and um loves traveling uh when he's not hard at work he's finding Hidden Gem restaurants so I guess if you need a spot to go to eat you're going to ask for Frank to see where the great place to go is and uh you know uh we are lucky to have such a hardworking dedicated person uh and uh he's really humble about this because he really when he found out that he was going to receive this word he said no don't give it to me let's go find you know the next person in line and give it to them that just kind of shows you the dedication um and some of his co-workers uh you know that that kind of sponsored him and and nominated him said that he always goes above and beyond and shes this city is a topnotch um and Frank these are people your co-workers that are saying these couple things so um he spend countless of hours including working late throughout storms organizing Crews and maintaining city streets and properties uh and he coordinates with the county OEM to help keep K May safe so um we just want to say uh congratulations Frank and uh keep doing a great job for uh the city and the residents thank you so thank you we see you you're welcome than real quick I of course he's leaving right away but I I have had multiple times where you had to call somebody and between Eric and Frank they're there immediately and uh I just pass that along to the public because uh as mayor I kind of get to see what goes on and I got to tell you they right away they're there and Frank especially is somebody who knows the ins and outs of the city of Kate May and it's important to have folks like that so thank you okay oh on to uh updates city manager any updates I got to have a couple items uh first um uh the EV Chargers uh along and awaited we do have a introduction of an ordinance to establish the fees here this evening um but they actually came down today and commissioned them so they are all ready to uh turn on um don't go run out there just today to go hook up to them because I think that they're still not programmed to to operate but um you know as soon as we establish the fees we can get them uh up and running so uh it's been a long time and uh we're happy to get them ready um I am very happy to announce that uh yesterday we received a TCO for the fire station uh so you know we're on the the final final leg of getting our fire company in the their firehouse and back where they belong back here on Franklin Street um not that West Kate May hasn't enjoyed you know having having them so close to home um but I think it'll be nice to have them back on Franklin Street uh where they belong umit this is really a notice for uh the public uh we are getting close to um doing the sewer work on the Lafayette Street um up by and you've probably seen they've been out working over the last two days removing the landscaping and and granite blocking on the islands uh so we're getting closer uh we are slightly delayed um and the you know we we were hoping to be able to start the The Detour uh this weekend however if you've seen some traffic cones sitting in Texas Avenue in front of the Wawa um that's putting a little crimp into the our schedule so we have to figure out what is creating that sinkhole on Texas Avenue in front of the Wawa because obviously that's part of where we're detouring traffic and we can't detour traffic onto a sinkhole so we're hoping to have all of that investigated this week so that we can kind of coordinate and figure but beginning next week uh the traffic pattern uh as you come into K May City over the small Bridge uh will be changing there will be signs and and traffic paint to kind of direct you and there will be uh enforce a truck detour uh we're encouraging all trucks not to to enter in through K May City but to use West Kap may as an entrance uh into the city um and that will be starting next week um and then the final thing I wanted to do is uh um with consultation with city council um I've made a selection for our Deputy city manager um Justin rigs he is here in the audience um second row if you could just kind of wave his hand um so he will be starting uh on the 20th and uh you know after that we'll be able to run on full cylinders and hopefully all the different projects we have going on we'll be able to keep uh everything moving forward and have a good 2024 so I just wanted to update that and I did you know pass along a resume for everybody just so that you had his updated resume so you knew his full background and I think that's all I had this evening thank you and if I could just comment on Justin um you were nice this is is the Deputy city manager selection and it's your selection but you are nice enough to share resumés with city council and uh Justin's rumes is impressive and I think uh we're excited to see you get started and and happy to have you aboard so welcome Justin and uh we're looking forward to it so thank you uh City solicor any updates tonight uh just briefly there there are a couple uh ordinance initiatives kind of percolating among the boards right now um as of 2024 I was fortunate enough to take over for HPC as their solicitor and they're working on some potential initiatives for the planning board and and city council to consider I'm sorry um the HPC is currently working on some potential ordinance initiatives for uh consideration of parking standards and uh there was also discussion about an artificial turf ordinance a few meetings back and both of those were the subject of uh some discussion amongst a small group for the artificial turf and the HPC has um their own uh proposal for parking standard so I'm just giving Council and the public and everybody heads up that those things will be finding their way to the planning board if you're interested in those issues you know there'll be an opportunity for the planning board to review and then eventually find its way back to council city city manager uh thank you I forgot um wasn't on the agenda but if I could ask Vince to uh come up and kind of give a little do you want to give an update on I'm [Laughter] done good evening Vince thanks for joining us thanks for inviting me good evening everyone good evening so let me just get my exhibits out here and so I prepared a little report kind of outlining the project that we're currently working on uh and I did provide a few exhibits so the the first project that we're currently working on and trying to bring bring to conclusion is the Franklin Street reconstruction so uh if you notice I provided you with some of the concepts that I had presented earlier that are now going to to be put into motion so the the Franklin Street uh construction it really is an enhancement program um consisting of new curbing New sidewalks um brick sidewalks um Street Furniture new lighting with banners um some out Coes for some seating in front of the library um and really Pro trying to identify the this particular Street as a historic Street within the community especially given all the public buildings that we have um if you look at the uh what we were able to do is provide a kind of an existing uh perspective and then an after perspective of what what we're looking to do so the first one is a view looking from franker Street looking towards uh Lafayette uh you can see that we're trying to enhance the sidewalks with brick pavers uh you'll see the the light standards which are replicas of kind of a street Lantern light which would have uh Banner arms depc some of historic elements of of the of the site of the street um that second perspective is um looking North on Franklin Street and as part of this which is not really part of this application but a subsequent application uh will be implementing a parking area on the west side of the of the AMC church as as part of this of as part of the parking lot reconstruction which is is paralleling this application and and the third perspective is uh we wanted to create some out coov sitting areas in front of the library which will kind of uh be a circular uh area consisting of some benches so that people are going to the library if they want to come outside it'll be off the main uh walkway and provide for a secondary means of uh seating uh in this area so we're currently developing the construction and specification drawings um all the utility work I think was done previously by um DeBlasio and I think that's all been part of it um we're looking to make maybe a little bit of drainage improvements on Franklin and speaking with Public Works uh we may want to run a secondary Inlet off of the AIS weight between the library in the firehouse there are some low-lying areas in there so we're going to tie into the drainage system there and the and the curbing will be a concrete curb with a brick gutter kind of replica of some of the other areas in the town so that project is underway we anticipate a bid date of of June sometime uh uh June awarding a contract at the end of June and you know going into construction probably late summer early fall can I just ask one quick question the the design is exactly as you know we had seen it in the you know in previous meetings um the one thing that I'm thinking about now that we might need to add to this our bike racks knowing that we're going to have people coming to the um the library that's a destination I just they're installed huh they're already installed in the back or on the side because it looks like they just installed them a couple days ago oh did they if you uh if you look at this second page um where it's showing the firehouse and then the library and the that Lantern that's the first one next to the library there's a concrete pad there and I know you worked with um Michael kyti there's few bike racks there now but I'm that's one location MH but you know when may not be a bad idea to incorporate a secondary cuz you're going to yeah with the as well maybe something the back of the park L church at the church yeah yeah that way you optimize the parking but you would still have the and we and then we get off the center get off the main street we have plenty of area to create those additional parking spaces yep I think so good so uh Council will have an opportunity once we get the construction drawings underway you'll have a a more detailed plan to take a look at um the the next three projects um are currently out the bid it's the water line transmission line uh the prominade restrooms and the quanas park restrooms uh those are actually going to be noticed in the paper tomorrow we're taking bids on the 28th uh we're hoping that and and we have seen in other projects that we've done um a reduction in bid cost uh when we bid the quanas park restrooms I think it was kind of at the at the peak of the supply train being clogged up um the bids came in high uh our our thoughts were to bid both the prominade restrooms and the quantis restrooms simultaneously not under the same project but at the same time so that if somebody wanted to bid both there may be a substantial savings because they're being able to to do too yeah um so in um 3 weeks we'll have some bids and let's keep our fingers crust um I also provided for you a kind of a a base map that we start working on for the uh City parking lot and the Franklin Street parking lot so as you can see these are existing conditions uh speaking with city manager engine Mr Dietrich we're talking about uh enhancing the uh existing infrastructure with with respect to storm storm drainage most of the piping there is corrugated aluminum probably 60 70 years old um the I did have a chance to talk to Eric uh who we did have an emergency repair uh right out front here during the summer so we're going to go ahead and and make that part of a replacement and in speaking with Eric have the uh have a secondary means uh along that entrance way uh so we're basically it's going to be a Mill and repave job uh we'll look at any sidewalks that need to be replaced as part of it we're going to replace sidewalks if in fact it's it's absolutely need it just to keep the cost down uh but the asphalt will be replaced all in kind there won't be any change in um striping the striping there's pretty pretty much as is uh again that we is currently on the boards and we antip anticipate that being put out the bid in June um probably uh a false startup for for that Vince just a quick one on the uh plan which I know you know but just for the bidding process at the bottom of the parking lot it has that X still uh the bottom of the parking lot kind of the the that's been eliminated yeah okay yeah so additionally there was a poll there if you recall there telephone poll y so these were the asilt conditions when we did the survey probably a year ago um I do have uh Cape surveying going out to redo the survey because if you recall this doesn't reflect the new curban sidewalk that the firehouse installed mhm and when the firehouse installed that if you recall we had to raise that to be uh cognitive of the finished floor of the firehouse right so this doesn't reflect the as built conditions got uh and we had to raise that substantially if you recall probably about 10 in right so uh we don't have the correct elevations and they're set to go out there next week to update the uh elevations perfect um moving on the quanis park uh as you know is about 90% complete there's a few things that um need to be still need to be done there's some Landscaping uh that needs to be installed there's some irrigation that hasn't been completed the sensory Gardens that were part of the uh original design haven't been installed yet uh the fencing that was installed for the basketball court we're going to move that closer to the water's edge there still seems to be some issues with balls going over top of it uh we do have the Jenny far and plaque to install um I did pick that up uh last week and it's absolutely gorgeous nice uh it turned out really really nice so um we're going to talk to the contractor uh looking at a appropriate base for that um and uh councilwoman uh B one asked me to take a look and make sure that that we could reduce the lights on the baller lights I guess there was some concern about being too bright feedack right so I'm sure that there's a way that we could look at the ballast and and and the bulbs and and reduce that to some degree um so I would I would venture to say that that project will be closed out early spring there's some general cleanup um even though they cleaned up after there there's some cracking of the asphalt that I W repaired I kind of did a walk through uh right after right before Christmas right between Christmas and New Year's actually it was out there um Lafayette Street Park is making its way back to the top um as council's aware we're getting very close to the diversion deal the of the changes for the for the Lots uh Mike Floyd and his company have' been working diligently to make that happen um we authorized uh grub Associates to do the phase 2 archaeological study which was a requirement of the D last year um in fact I had a zoom call with the D today our our review officer um trying to ascertain what's the best path moving forward because last year we basically put the application on the Shelf we didn't withdraw it we just put it on the Shelf um so we're looking at the best methodology to move that forward she wants us to wait till the diversion is complete because that was one of the key elements why we shelf the application but um our desire is once that diversion is complete we want to resubmit the application uh back to the DP for their cafer permits um we may need a there's a transition area waiver requirement when the previous engineer did the drainage um some of the new drainage requirements weren't uh intact so we are faced with having to provide for a little bit more drainage one of the things that we're looking to do is to create uh rain Gardens within the in the Wetland buffers so our thoughts is creating rain Gardens which part of the educational process with the nature trail uh would be a good use of that are because it can't be used for anything else and it would be a uh I think a benefit to have that type of storm water system so it's just not a empty Basin it'll have uh Native vegetation as part of the application so they were encouraged about that and they seem to think that would be a a good way to go so um my guess is that we'll be submitting that application back to the D sometime in June or July of this year to the D um as you may be aware right before Christmas we did receive approval for our nature trail um around the um the lake there um we're currently working on plans and specifications um and I really need to dive into the specification just a little bit so I could get the council an accurate estimate on improvements so we're working with some contractors to see what the cost of putting those pilings in and working around that Boardwalk area so as we move down I'll be able to give uh Council um at least a ballpark figure for construction before we go out the bid and before we complete the uh construction uh specifications we're not we're not going to be uh uh messing with any historic fillback there okay everything is on grade so what happens is uh you'll be doing a little bit of probably top soil removal through the woods but once we get through the woods then everything is going to be pile supported thank you um lastly we um a while back we did a concept for harview Park before you go any further I just highlight the D approval that we've been waiting for for a long time on the nature trails so I I appreciate actually we got it within 6 months after we submit it right well we had to work through so many things there a lot of issues so um thank you for you know and the school was very Cooperative in signing the application and uh uh I'm glad that we're moving forward I think the school is going to be very happy and as we move with the park our hope is that we're going to create um the same opportunity with the nature trail being an educational um aspect as as will the park be that's that's great um and lastly a Harbor View Park um we had done the concept we kind of looked at it um we contacted lesie jeno from the county and we're going to meet with them next they're going to put together some dates uh our off has talked to her earlier this week and the object is to go there start a dialogue with um with the county open space commission to see what type of elements they could live with as we move there because obviously we're looking for funding sources for that and um I'm really excited about the project I think it has a lot of good elements y uh Council McDade was very influential and kind of looking at the broad scheme of things and I think once we meet with the county and get an idea of what kind of placemaking elements they're going to want to um incorporate will be able to come back to council with a finalized plan to say all right this is what the county could live with make an application to them and see if they can get some money from them the count is going to have to understand that it has to go before the state historic preservation office so they're going to have to flex a little bit I'm bringing Paul with me good um so other than that there the projects that we have currently um I'm looking forward to a a good year and uh you know we had a lot of things accomplished last year um you know the the arches of the prominade Pennsylvania Avenue uh quanas Park uh there were a lot of good Milestones last year and I think this year will be the same that's great Vince can you just let me know when you uh the date for the plaque when it's getting installed I just wanted to let the foreign reach out to them well I think we'll have it installed and then I think we'll have a a ceremony a ceremony perfect thank you yeah that's great any questions Council good thank you fce appreciate it thank you everybody have a nice evening sure I mean I had the six o' but you know other than that yeah can we can we keep it short Stacy Shan 928 Columbia Avenue um you had so the project for Franklin Street before and I know there was a concern I know Shane brought it up also about the trees are you removing any trees on there because there they weren't shown in the plan well when there was trees there there's two trees that are dead that will be eliminating but the trees that are you're you're not going to replace them with with live trees cuz I think that the whole I mean it's nice to have a streetcap with trees we're going to look at that I mean we we talked about that earlier during with my staff and Nicole I have no idea well she was is handling this and what what two trees are we talking about I don't even know there's two trees on kind of towards uh am am church right by them yeah there's those are gone they they were there between the library and the am Church no no they're on the curb side right here but they're shown in the plant that well they're shown in one design and not in another so the is that we're going to look to provide Street trees the problem why I'm saying are we Inc are we in including the shade tree which I think should be included in 100% if if the trees are being removed they should be included on what's being replanted yes the concern that we have is this that Kate May has historically planted within a very tight planting strip between the curb and the sidewalk and and unfortunately through the years and This is 40 50 years ago have planted the type of trees that don't really do well have buttress roots that have kind of pulled the sidewalks up and created havoc in a lot of the areas and we have a very tight RightWay so we're going to look at trying to push that sidewalk as far away we think that if we put Street trees in that we at least need a 4x4 tree great with a tree well there so that and planting the correct tree A lot of times previous administrations planted um a lot of London plain and and Sycamore I mean this is all to me is a shade tree question I mean I I I don't think you can answer I can't answer I think that goes before the shade tree on what it will go before the and and also about you know if there were trees there before I don't see why there could be trees planted back there okay if they died and then my other question has to do with gas lights there are they going to be the gas lights that are like at sturdy Bank the original type one or they going to be artificial they're going to be the original original okay that's our plan and isn't there isn't that curb cut there um on Franklin some of that slate are you taking away the slate and putting in concrete I don't know if it's slate or not I have to take a look I don't think there isn't I don't think there's any there might be some across from the bank but that's already brick I don't want to open this up to it's her house right so I thought she' know what in front of her house if it's slate or not any original curbing will be preserved by and that's within our own ordinance so it will be okay because I didn't hear that come out of Vince's mouth that's why AB we're going to have three other public comments after this okay and then the parking that's going to go next to the am church I'm assuming you're going to be moved there's some easements there and is that going to have to require a new use since it was not a parking lot and required to go before the planning board because it's a change of use Mr Gillan Schwartz a municipal use uses are permitted in in every Zone City K so you wouldn't have to go before the planning board to change the use of what was a building to make it a parking lot advisory review is permitted use I'm just asking because from what I understood it was it was a change of use from being a house to a parking lot would require approval it's a municipal use it's going to be a public parking lot for people in the public to park there a municipal use okay so that's a no it doesn't require change of use I don't think it's required and that's that's also in our code that we have Municipal uses permitted in each Zone um in other municipalities that I worked in the past we always give the planning board a cursory copy cursory comments only not for approval and for the Harbor Park the concept when will that be open to the public to view what the concepts are I think once we get the county input and Council then gets a first look at it then it'll be open to the public thank you thank you and we did have um that presented to us at Council and as well an HPC application to public meetings um but the fact is is shipo will also the state historic preservation office will also be reviewing that plan as well as the county so to be blunt it's it's kind of worthless to pick it apart before the authorities take a look at it and give us their recommendations once they give their recommendations um it'll be reviewed by the engineer and then brought back before councils for a public comment as well certainly I think the big thing is negotiating with the county op space commission right and just to be clear on that there's a little bit of a difficulty between the fact that the city of Cap May is the only city in the state where every city project has to go before the state historic preservation well every project any major any major project has to go to the state historic preservation office okay so that's not our local HPC that's the state HPC essentially so uh on our project like a park project like that um the county open space board has its own standards the state has separate and somewhat different standards so the difficulty for the city of Kate May is having frankly the county understand that we have a standard that we have to maintain not just you know because we're picity folks in Kate may but because we are subservient to a state board that's important for our um to to be be able to actually do the project so anyway with that I'm going to close public comment we'll have another public comment in just a moment um Vince thank you very much appreciate it good evening everyone Vince all right so next on the agenda we have an advisory committee update from MTR Martin Dennis thank you for joining us and and uh before you even begin please pass along our thanks to um the the MRA committee I know Moren has done a lot of work and we appreciate it well we certainly will thanks I'm Dennis Crowley 806 Lafayette Street chairman of the MTR committee and thanks for your time we're not going to take much of it but uh we think this is the really important idea um early on in the history of MTR and we're we're going into our fourth year of of existence and one of the things we recommended pretty close to early on was that the city make every effort to view their budget not in the context only of the state forms but in the ability to pick that budget apart and identify all costs related to any one program we call that program based budgeting and it's easily not easily done but it is something that can be done within the confines of the existing budget format uh so we made that recommendation and Martin here is going to talk more about something that's that's really an extent mention of that because once not only did the city agree to adopt our recommendation on program based analysis uh but they were very supportive of our our efforts in looking at the concept of shared services so we see this as the first example of how a budget can be recast so that you can identify full costs in order to allocate them properly uh in this effort we I think we should really commend and thank uh Paul and his staff Uh Kevin and his staff and also chief fashaw for the kind of support they've given us throughout this process and I also want to commend Martin Van wsom who has taken charge of this activity and in addition to Steve as well and um and and Steve bider Steve and Chris Gillan Schwarz was very instrumental guiding Us in these conversations so sorry just want to make sure everybody gets full credit so with that uh let me take no more of my time and turn it over to Martin who's going to walk you through this whole concept that we've been able to identify and thanks again for your support Mark thanks Dennis U first and foremost I want to point out that I brought a nice Ocean View into the presentation it's it's critical to the presentation um so MRA was asked last middle of last year to take a look at the um at the existing shared service agreements um and analyze them or or critique them from an effectiveness in terms of um the way that the Agreements are being administered and the efficiency in terms of replacement of the costs for the city um we were uh specifically asked to look at the municipal agreements uh which is where we uh what we consider to be in scope I I will offer to the public uh out of scope would be any of the commissions or committees I've seen some activity on social media lately cons uh suggesting that we should be um doing shared services for HPC or zoning board or other things in addition to jurisdictional issues um there's no cost associated with those committees so that's out of scope uh these are the agreements that um the the city um manager's office was uh very kind in providing um they're they're fairly extensive I'd like to call your attention to the right hand side um many of these Agreements are quite dated at this stage uh the durations are tend to be fairly long I I we we don't really have a lot of um many of these agreements were put in place before um the current people that are involved in City administration were in their offices um my my supposition is that there was some reluctance to actually have to renegotiate these fairly often but the reality is as we'll demonstrate in a few moments um longer agreements can tend to create some issues um so we we'll come back to that issue but um I I did want to point out that you know some of these are fairly long a municipal court for Cape May point for example even though it says 2017 actually originated in 2011 and then was rolled forward I think the key the key element of reviewing shared service agreements is that there's an inherent value a partnership if you will between the two sides these are not one way the municipalities that we provide services too benefit because it would not be costeffective for them to provide their own services and the City of Cape May benefits because it allows us to be able to um uh have some of the of the cost of running these functions shared by the other mun municipalities so there's there's an incentive from both sides to enter into what we would consider Fair agreement and and we do think that the current Agreements are are fair or close to Fair um one of the points that was made to us was that the Cape May and I'm sorry West Cape May and Cape May Point often have different desires requirements from the same Services how they expect uh Chief ashaw to um execute law enforcement may be different in Cape May Point than West Cape May um yet they're covered by similar agreements and similar processes so something to something to keep in mind um and then I'll I'll take us through an example in a moment uh one of the problems with longer agreements is things change um the economic situations change and um costs go up for example the healthc care costs last year were up precipitously precipitously uh we can't really take that into account when we fixed the cost even with an escalator um 10 years ago um so that I think that that's one of the things that we want to make sure is considered as we renew some of these agreements to make sure that they stay as close to current as possible so an example um is that um uh Cape May Point Court Administration agreement uh which was renewed in 2017 um but it was a roll forward from 2011 the original agreement had a 3.5% escalation factor which was appropriate at that time in 2017 the renegotiated agreement was brought down to 2% also appr at that time we're operating under an agreement with a 2% cost escalation costs are going up by a lot more than 2% right now so um that's where things can get out of step and in fact the fully loaded cost and this is something that that Kevin has been extremely helpful to us in making sure that we do have the ability to to determine what are the total costs of employing people increased by by a 4.4% annual rate from the Inception of that renewed agreement to the um last end of 2022 which is the time we did the study was the most recent full year um but then also when you include things like office supplies and telephone and other things that are important to the running of the department um they increased 5% we're getting 2% the city is getting a 2% escalation on a 5% agreement um and as a result we we lost 11% of of the ground in in the course of four years uh there has been discussion about how within the municipal government financial system you can't really get at the real costs we're pleased to report that's not true we have found absolutely uh unequivocally that we can truly know what the full cost of providing services are that's critical to the process that we're going to have going forward there's nothing in the way that the City of Cape May's Financial um departments are run everything is extremely transparent and that's very helpful to this process um what's what is a bit of a mystery is how did we ever come up with any of the numbers in any of these agreements um it's no one remembers why is this agreement $524 um so don't look at me uh we we have a we have a proposal that will um change that a little bit um and then I I I want to share that you know there are there is a sweet spot on the length of these contracts as I mentioned having to renegotiate them more often is not necessarily desirable having them be very long can cause us to get out of Step um and then it was shared that there is at least some sense of uneasiness among city employees if a shared service contract is relatively short or is coming up for Renewal there is a little insecurity if we don't renew it I could lose my job so we should be conscious of that as we go through the process the takeaway box on here is probably the most important um observation that we have what we're going to be suggesting or are suggesting is that we share we open the kimono for all of these costs within the municipalities that we're dealing with we tell them exactly how much costs for us to provide the services what percentage of from volume statistics that we can determine what percentage of the the time of a particular department is being devoted to the other municipality and then we calculate the costs based based on that it can be done relatively precisely and what winds up happening in our opinion the reason that we're landing on this recommendation is both sides will feel that it's extremely fair that everybody everything is transparent everything's open and above board the M municipalities know exactly what they're paying for and why they're paying it and the city understands exactly how much cost recovery um that they're realizing this we have a very capable city manager and city solicitor that I know are immediately on top of this they're not listening right now so we can task them with that that's why they were involved in every meeting throughout this process one thing was apparent to us we cannot have floating numbers in Municipal governments the importance of having a fixed amount going into going into and coming out of the budget season is very important that doesn't mean we can't revise them manually we just have to make sure that we are doing that in a timing that allows a particular City or municipality to understand this is what we're going to have to budget for for the coming year uh so there's some advanced work that that can be done to be able to accomplish that uh there may be a couple As We transition that you know we'll have to figure out exactly how to approach them but um we we do think that that should be an objective that we keep our our eye on uh as we go through this um we're suggesting that we would share the activity on a three-year basis the reason for three years is to take any data anomalies out of it so for example right now 2023 has been completed so we would be looking at the activity data for 21 22 and 23 for an agreement that we would be going into for two into in 2024 um it's not ancient history it's but it's a long enough duration that if there is a particular blip in the data um we'll be able to account for that we continue to look at that data annually as we go forward and again I'll take you through an example in a moment um but I it's important that we that we do uh we take the steps necessary to keep the cost that we are receiving the the revenue that we're receiving and the costs that we're bearing consistent with what the city is actually spending um we can use midyear data if not if necessary uh it just needs to be tied to the same time period so obviously we have a peak season but there would be nothing prevents us from going from October 1st of 20 to September 30th of 23 if that's the three-year period that we decide makes the most sense and then we do think that U three to five years is is probably closer to that sweet spot 10 year agreements or 25 year agreements may or may not um be effective for us um I I think this might come to life a little bit more on the next slide where I'll take you through an example uh but what MCH is suggesting and we've talked about this quite at length it's also been reported several times already there's nothing really um U we're not breaking any new ground here uh we're we're talking about there being a fixed component but by fixed we mean fixed annually even even though it may be a three or five year agreement that fixed component would still change as costs go up whether it's through an escalation or through assigning a percentage to it that can be calculated and then there would be a variable component as well that would be done on a rolling threeyear basis so a 24 agreement would be based on 21 22 23 but then the amount of reimbursement for 25 would be based on 22 23 and 24 it would keep rolling like that so that if a municipality um has less activity they pay less if they have more activity then the amount of Revenue that the city would receive goes up because we'd be providing higher a higher level of services um we would set those at the start of the agreement typically prior to the budget season season and then um we would make sure that we are consistently and constantly updating those numbers to stay as reflective of things like 27% increase in health care costs as possible um let's let the example um hopefully illustrate that a little bit better so in this hypothetical Department with a $500,000 budget uh we know that and the current fee is 27,000 which was based on an agreement from five years ago that escalated at a 2 % it's a typical agreement that we have today this is not real a real agreement this is just hypothetical we know that the $500,000 cost is 95% payroll related and we while not fixed they're fixed going into a year payroll costs don't change much during the course of the year if there were a replacement of a particular staff member they could change but it generally don't change a lot and then there's there's a variable component as well it could be escalated mid contract by a contract so we could sure yep uh and then the we we also know from looking at historical data that about 5% of this hypothetical Department's activity was devoted to this municipality so what we would do is we would go through the process of sharing that information and we would take the 500,000 with the 95% fixed cost and the 5% level of activity and the base cost of this agreement would be 23,750 um we're suggesting that in many cases there are um low volume low level of involvement activities and some that require a lot more time and then some that are fall in the middle we could for example set based upon those volume statistics different rates of reimbursement based upon how much people power has to be put in um so for example those low labor intensive activities could be $5 each uh the moderate could be 25 and then the high involvement could be 150 um times the number of historical um data elements that we have uh we extend those numbers out total it all up and we would come to 28,500 which would be the amount that we would negotiate with this municipality for the coming year a year from now we would do the same thing again we would come up with a new number based again on all of that historical real information it's not anything that that that we're making up so that the municipalities continue to pay for the services that they receive and we continue to get reimbursed for the services that we provide let me pause there just to see if there's any questions on the math it's good we also learned from our discussions and these these were great conversations by the way the the the the the leaders the department heads were absolutely fantastic in sharing information and thoughts and you know they're they're clearly emotionally invested in the success of of this of this of this city and in of their functions as well so thank you very much for all the the work was provided one of the things that came out was sometimes there may be a different way of approaching this and we shouldn't say that there's only one solution that can work um we had some suggestions about alternate approaches that I think are worth explore exploring um and we as a committee want to make sure that we're doing the absolute best possible um job of of helping um to make suggestions about which direction these these um these agreements go to um if there are specific circumstances that affect a particular agreement let's take them into account um that flexibility is probably important to making sure that everything stays as fair to all the interested parties as possible um the last thing that we were asked to do was talk about what additional agreements there could be um we found a couple I I I think that um one of the issues that did come up in terms of our discussions is um the time that our fire um Department spent over in West Cape May went extremely well for both municipalities um and there is some interest in say in extending that while we are moving as we heard tonight um back into our own Firehouse soon um there is apparently some consideration for actually extending the professional fire staff to West Cape May uh we suggested that be pursued um the other one is that um it came up in our conversations that because of the construct of the island um Cape May is very often the first responder on the scene in parts of the island that are lower Township or even that are slightly off of the island um we have agreements with West Cape May and Cape May point for some of these services and the city gets reimbursed for them we don't have any agreements with Lower Town ship at this point um and specifically um EMS is one that um we have very long-standing agreements uh for EMS that um we don't have with lower Township and then um there have been a couple of rounds of discussion about uh maintaining to um courtrooms and is there opportunity there from one side or the other to say let's let's talk about combining the two fac facilities um so those were the ones that we uh that that we we came across that really were um did represent additional opportunities for the city um we have one negotiation that is imminent it's a contract that's that's expiring in a little under a month and I understand that we are already in the process of having those conversations um we have Construction Services that will be coming up at the end of October so that's one that will get on relatively soon um and we can start to use with council's approval some of these new ideas within those negotiations um and begin to share information with the uh with our sister communities um to be able to help to negotiate these agreements uh we we do need to have a separate discussion on the EMS agreements as you may have seen in the first slide there're over 25 years old there are evergreen agreements that just consistently and constantly roll forward Sur surprisingly I I guess the people that did that work 25 years ago were pretty darn smart because they work really well and neither side are unhappy with the agreements that are in place so we may just want to leave well enough for loan but at least maybe understand exactly how much are we receiving back even if we decide to keep the current Evergreen AG in place um and then finally um we we do need to talk with lower Township on EMS and again West Cape May on fire protection um that was what we found um it was um a lot of interesting discussion yeah um and uh we hope that it's valuable to uh to the city and to city council and and let me just make one final comment as well while you're while you're talking would you mind putting the list of services that we're talking about the first slide well sorry I just want to look at it while I'm listening okay Mike I know you you can do more than one thing at the same time well this one well was this the yeah that's the one now when when the city council created MTR the primary function of MTR was to protect the interests and concerns of the taxpayers of Kate May that was the ultimate goal of MRA and our that's our function as well we we take that very seriously and this particular issue is one that we feel the interests of the taxpayers are not being served properly because over time we have become subsidizes of a lot of services for a lot of people that that we just simply have been able to roll into our budgets uh this effort here has pulled some of that reality out of it and it's time that we think that we place the interest of the txps ahead of everything else with regard to this issue and qu come up with a process that is both fair and Equitable to both the the funders of these services and the recipients of these Services it's it's really time to start looking at this issue with regard to the interest of our taxpayers um these are these issues that Martin and and the and his subcommittee have identified are they're are not lwh hanging fruit they'll be difficult to uh to acquire and to resolve but we think it's time to start that process very quickly and uh we look for your total and un un flinching support of this issue as we roll forward thanks so much thank you wonderful analysis as always from MTR the amount of detail and data that you all come up with is so invaluable and um it makes our decision making all that much easier because it's it is hard for the city on our side to get into this kind of data and that kind of studying you know while also running the city at the same time to have your valuable input makes makes our decision process a lot simpler so so and and Martin did highlight this Kevin really coming on board was has been instrumental and and changing sort of the perspective on fully loaded cost so it really becomes more of a cost center basis uh which is a new New Concept for how anyone has looked at data in the city it's been very isolated in general administrative funds for most of the operating cost and all the other Associated Personnel cost and each cost center or department has only really had salaries and some other miscellaneous so his ability to be able to pull that out and be able to show us the actual cost and I'll say you know using um the police department as an example fully loaded cost I mean it's it's apparent you know what the cost it is for us to have an officer on the street it goes beyond just the standard salary and benefits and health care it's their pension it's their guns it's their armor it's their body camers it's everything fully loaded and those are the kind of expenses that were probably not recognized or fully appreciated when many of these contracts were started but now with that and diving into that data you can really get an understanding and I think um in the spirit of transparency it's easy enough to show to the other municipalities because it is all there um and it's and it's very you know easy so those kinds of discussions as they start may be challenging and difficult but the numbers are the numbers um and we're not just saying it's 2% more yeah and and and a three-year rolling average is pretty is pretty standard in most industries that are looking at projection of of expenses versus you know Revenue so that's again another model that's uh fairly routine in most businesses um you know that I'm familiar with uh at least in healthcare it was pretty standard so I think that those kinds of things can be applied uh and hopefully the parties on the other side appreciate the effort and the work that went into doing this just so that we certainly um as um Dennis is saying are protecting the interest of the taxpayers by covering the cost and the expenses but while you know recognizing uh the fact that we are providing services that need to have those those expenses cover we've always said that K May is a business and it should be run like a business and this is an essential business function at all times so have reason I wanted to see that was I wanted to know if you consider any of those Services up there competitive with other municipalities in other words we we share the services now um what if lower Township would wants to get in on it and they come in at a more competitive price is there anything up there that we would be upset with losing the shared services on I I think that we would I don't know if upsets the right word I I think we would have to restructure a function if we were no longer providing the services islandwide for example um I I think that there are significant barriers to entry to another municipality coming in um but I think also we as we met as a subcommittee we talked about that fairly often about how we do need to make sure that we stay competitive and by making sure that that the that the other side of the transaction is aware of exactly how are we coming up with the numbers that we're coming up with mayor it wouldn't be we don't need this process to have a 2% increase right we need this process for if we were to find that in order to support the volume it's a 10% increase the the municipalities are going to B at a 10% increase in the current fee especially since we can't even tell them how the fee was arrived at to begin with yeah which is what my what I'm saying is that I have I have that sense that some of these things you're going to have to go at them with a fairly large increase and um again they might say yeah we'll get back to you because we we're going to shop this around and and we think there's barriers to entur you might say Police Service I think it barrier it's not it may be a quality issue there's there's the the actual dollars and cents and then there's the quality of the service that they get so I think in part you're right Mike I mean you know the the the problem with this is no one knows what where the origin of this information and these contracts came from either on either side of the table so yeah those conversations will be challenging but the reality can be shown as to what the current the expenses are today I think you guys have built a really nice really good case there I you know I well just feel confident for history's purposes don't forget that we're even in the shared service business because we're the most complicated and consistently uh viable government below the canal and and so folks who can't generate the resources to do what they know they should be doing have turned to us over time this is a problem 35 40 years into the making all of these arrangements are are are are part of a uh thought process of smaller less viable fiscal pounds have turned to us for these Services we've never said we've never said this to them we will say this to them if you want to do this but they have to realize that it's it's going to be fair and Equitable for both sides of of of the the equation and that we're not in the business of subsidizing services by our taxpayers we all we all look at this in a brand new way and realize that if you want to go somewhere to get your order and Sewer you can do that if you want to you're it's your town but the point is we are incurring the cost for these Services we need to have a system that effectively reimburses us for this service and basically it's it's a negoti proc and the information sharing we think will go a long way towards helping the what it is that you're that they're paying for I'm glad you brought that particular service up because even though it don't it the law law enforcement extends through the end of 20125 we need to get in front of that one that's one that uh we can't wait until the middle of 25 of 25 or fourth quarter to say okay let's slap something together that's something that it's the largest contract by far um and it's something that we need to really begin working on pretty soon yeah and understand that our staffing is obviously dependent upon the outcome that's right exactly exactly our cost exactly exactly just a quick couple questions I understand exactly what you're saying thank you for providing all all of this information um the the most recent contract that's going to expire um do you have any data on that currently for the Court uh municipal court for Cape mapo yes you do we we um with um solicitor Gillan schwarz's help we I have to remember refer to people in meetings um yes we have a pretty darn good understanding of the volume going back for three years um so I I know that sister Gillan Schwarz has already been cogitating on how to approach this I I don't know exactly where things currently stand but uh I don't I don't think it would be difficult for us to go forward with this framework relatively quickly yeah this is a slow walk well I was going to say Sir that that was the the court services agreement not the court administrator agreement correct the that we provide services to Kate May point they don't have their own Municipal Court the city of Kate May provides that service I'm sorry I'm probably talking into whisper microphone again um we have a we provide Kate Mayo's court services municipal court services and that was one of the initial things that I was brought into these discussions for I will say just overall that's coming up uh city manager Dietrich and I were just talking about uh you know the plan to meet and and get those discussions underway with the officials over in Kate May point and we do have I think a strategy going forward and I think it's a credit to uh MTR and the and the multiple meetings and work and research that was done that you know it empowers myself and anybody else in these positions with the information to have a intelligent discussion about what's the charge going to be why is this your position where is that coming from we didn't really have that before I'm not saying it wasn't there but there's been so many people changing over at this point that you just kind of lose the institutional knowledge about that but I think this provides a strong Foundation going forward one of the things that was drawn out of that specifically uh councilwoman Baldwin was the quality of the data it's not just quantity but you you in doing this exercise you get okay well it's not going to surprise anybody to know that K May Point has less numbers than the city of K May right so they have less numbers but what do those numbers mean it forces you ask those questions and and what types of cases are being generated and how much more work is it to to handle those types of cases versus maybe a traffic ticket that gets play paid online so you're able to have that discussion ask those questions and get kind of the quality behind the data too so those things are very helpful and I know that those are definitely going to be incorporated in our discussions with Kate Mayo going forward thanks yeah so but considering all of is that the only data that you have currently as far as the cost no I I didn't bring all the fold yeah the only reason I because we are we're looking at neighboring municipalities we're looking at a balance we're looking at you know okay yes the cost is you know probably burdened on the city of Kate may but well I I I think that um when we the the uh K May point1 was one of uh several that we looked at we did a very um Deep dive on with um the police chief we did a deep dive with the fire chief um and when I say that it was hours um you know just in those types of meetings so I I think that there is enough information um and obviously um Mr Gillan Schwarz was present during all of those as well as Kevin so I think we're Beyond just knowing what's going on with the court um we knew about the court administrator and and West Kate and the Shar there I'm I'm you know we I mean we were meeting every three weeks for months on end um so you know I think that it's uh we understand the EMS the fire I mean I'm trying to think I mean other than construction which is really one we didn't get into but uh I think that's going to be pretty um easy from the number standpoint to be honest with you because it's going to be based on you know inspections and fees and those kinds of things it's much more regulated than almost any other on to give you an example of where all that benefits um EMS calls were the address was being recorded but it wasn't being noted what municipality it was in okay so we weren't really able to tell how many times did we send uh our EMS to lower Township um going forward they are now recording that information so that it's easier for them to catalog great so there's already a benefit from having been involved in in the in the process I I'm I will tell you that I don't expect that any of these agreements we're going to find some Earth shattering difference between concerned between what we're what we're receiving and what it's costing but as I Illustrated in the one example you're losing 11% of your Revenue over a three-year period of time it's not insignificant um so I our hope is that when we sit down and actually have these types of conversations both sides walk away comfortable with whatever that number is now there may be difficulties with how do we fit that into our budget cycle and and you know things along those lines um I I I on another topic there was a very unusual increase seconde increase in a in a contract that we've been reviewing and uh my supposition is it was because they couldn't absorb the full increase in the first year because of the budget but they so they loaded it into the second year um so there are things that like a baseball contractor if uh if I could answer that question a little differently all right I I think think we have a really good handle on data internally budget wise it's now time we think to start talking to our partners about this and you're saying it's not earth shattering right so so we we wouldn't want any either of the municipalities to to uh obser to listen to this meeting or or see what winds up being reported and feel as if oh my gosh there's something major coming I don't think that's the case again it's a partnership we we benefit from being able to provide this Services too and we'll consistently and continually recognize that yeah that that I think is an important recognition that's why I'm talking about the competitive side because I police it just take that as a reference we have we are able to employed more law enforcement individuals in the City of Cape May because we provide these services to the other municipalities and I think that that's a big deal benefit I'd rather be the one with the larger Force than lower Township so well and I think that this exercise was to demonstrate that the information and these contracts are not arbitrary that it's based on information um and that I think it's both the data as well as the quality of the service that the you know receiving municipality gets and that's in part was a large part of the conversations we certainly had with Chief fashaw and uh Chief Coulter you know their their their interaction and their um work experience and the experiences that they have in in servicing that you know those municipalities so and we're lucky to have both of them by the way they're fantastic um I know we want to wrap it up I do one more thing I do want to just thank you for is and and and let the public know this because this is important in fact around the county I've been asked about MTR um because of the work that you were doing on the parking um and and asking and the City Clerk's not here tonight but asking um for the contracts of other Municipal parking contracts specifically with um I believe all of them actually are with one company Park Mobile but with whatever company they may have um all of them have individual contract actually I think all of them right they all have individual contracts with the parking service um which as everyone knows in the city of Kate May is you know a lot of money um so we all of those municipalities were nice enough to share their information and we're going to distribute that information back to them including all the different contracts which people are interested in knowing what is Kate May paying compared to Avalon compared to Stone Harbor compared to Wildwood um and maybe someday and I hope this is the case that that brings people together perhaps for a bigger bidding out of those Services we'll we'll see what happens but on that we did just received the bids back in and um I I believe some of them Mr solicitor I think have a 30-day um expiration on them before acceptance is that correct some of the bids that CA came in for the par parking the ones we just received yeah yeah I was going to report on that later yeah we we received the five competitive Contracting quotes for the service and uh um I met with staff today to kind of start reviewing them I know councilman McDade uh got a copy just to kind of start taking a preview of it um and we'll be putting forth an evaluation after I have some discussions with uh Chris on uh the various uh proposals that were submitted but the initial numbers showed me that you know it we there's at least some competition and bidding it out there like that is getting some competition and I think it's going to be beneficial both to the city and also to the person paying the fee at the meter not the meter but at the parking spot that issue is on our agenda for our Thursday meeting this week and if you want to uh join us and share anything you want with us we'd be happy to bounce that around with you perfect fine thank you yeah I anybody else can are we finished you're done thank you very much I just want to just I just wanted to say that uh I'm glad Aaron's not here only because she said that we have 15 minutes for this presentation thank you for your time and attention I I do appreciate it I think probably the first time that as a city we've ever sat down and had this discussion so hopefully it was valuable very valuable and can I and then can I bear with you to save myself a trip to the microphone one of the items on your agenda is the EV fees and back in 2010 uh MTR recommended the adoption of an ordinance which you did in fact adopt with basically what we were asking for and we thank you for that but in that same context I've reviewed the uh fees that you're proposing and and they seem to be quite reasonable uh they're neither too low nor too high and they're right in in the ballpark so we we'd be happy to to endorse that with you on Thursday thank you Dennis I will say uh I think Aon may be monitoring the um progress of the meeting from home and she may deduct your next presentation time from today's presentation time so that means that means I talk until [Laughter] 20 thank thank you very much thank you Dennis Martin I think we're on to ordinances for introduction yes we have two ordinances for introduction tonight Council the first being 52622 and ordinance authorizing fees for use of electrical electric vehicle Supply service equipment EV and make ready parking spaces do I have a motion I'll make that motion do I have a second I'll second obviously this is the introduction Council any questions or comments and if I may just to um fill everyone in this is for the um charging stations that are you see at City Hall here and at the Welcome Center um most of which was paid for through a grant number one but um also is um required under New Jersey state law at this point for any new new parking lots of course Welcome Center was a new parking lot um and uh we did work with uh um Paul Dietrich and and um and the installer uh Brian electric Brian electric who does a lot of installations in in um throughout the state and I think elsewhere actually but look at different fee structures and um like one of the questions of course was do people charging specifically at the Welcome Center not here at City Hall but do they pay separately for the parking meter or do you roll that into the electrical fees and after doing some research to look at you know what what does everybody else do they tend to keep it separate so it will say specifically when you go to charge your car you still have to feed the meter and in that case it's not again not a meter it's Park Mobile yeah we'll be adding if you go out there now uh we'll be adding an additional sign at each one of the spaces just to remind uh the C you know the person parking that you need to pay the parking fee in addition to the EV charge fee uh and then there's also going to be um you know for each the level two and level three charger you know there's certain if if your car is not charging during those times you should not be using that space so um not necessarily delineated in this but that is something that I think we're going to have to coordinate with the parking enforcement and look at how we you know monitor that and enforce that uh the the system is actually smart enough that the the car can communicates with the charging system and it tell it knows when it's charging and when it's not and it actually can send an email not only to the customer hey your car no longer is charging but we can also have it send an email to parking enforcement to say hey this car is no longer charging and maybe we can swing by you know still give somebody a grace period but you know we may be we're going to be I think evaluating that during the first summer just to see is it an issue is it not an issue and uh that's something that we'll report back to council and see how we're going to look at handling that from an enforcement standpoint right I can I I I do have a sort of a question and a comment uh the city manager and I had talked about this a little bit uh yesterday I guess it was and um so I understand that with the electric um costs what the electric costs are are being covered by these fees that were charging them we're not making any money on those on that and that's and I guess I was concerned because I thought we were losing a parking space my problem is is we are losing a parking space most of the time because there's not an EV sitting there being charged and and so I guess I'm I'm looking at what what I'm concerned about is um I I think at some point in time we're going to need to recover that cost and so I'm afraid that we put these fees in place they're going to stay there and not be changed but but we we will also evaluate not only we'll be able to report you know how how often that space is being utilized for for charging and so we'll be able to analyze it and I think the first year I think is is you know we're going to have to see how it works I think you're going to see more people are needing EV charging spaces so and and and I'm also concerned about the cost of electricity and it going up and and we start losing ground I'm I'm just saying that I think I think the cost that's building here we we're definitely not losing money on electric charges um and then obviously the first year of our installation cost included I'll say the maintenance cost of charge point is the company that that kind of services that so there's obviously a servicing fee just like the park mobile that has a transaction fee that's applied to the user you know at this point that price that's in there includes I'll say that transaction fee of their processing fee for the credit card their maintenance and warranty coverage so you know for that so you know as we move forward we'll evaluate to make sure that all of our costs are covered both on a electric and the maintenance contract requirements for So perhaps maybe that should be done just quarterly in the first year just do a look back just to see especially as we get into the season and then I I I would think that um if I'm understanding this councilman Jagger you're concerned that these eight or nine spots that are for EV charging wouldn't be generating Revenue just for parking is that what you're uh um if they're not being used for charging someone can't park there I what what I'm yeah what I'm concerned about is that the EV spaces are going to be empty a lot when people are looking for parking okay all right um and and I but we have that's not that's not something we can control necessarily control I mean the state requires us to have so many EV parking spaces I'm just saying that I would like to see us try to get compensation for does this providing those spaces not now but I don't want to see an ordinance PA and then we're done with that and we move on does this ask for review because I know we've passed a few ordinances that specifically ask for review of fees it it doesn't specifically ask for review of fees but it does unlike some of our other ordinances this has a provision where you can up update this by resolution so if if the next month after this is adopted these are out of date you can pass a resolution saying here are the new fees and they're they'll be posted on that machine okay so and you'll have information it's to address that exact concern of or is this getting out of sync with with covering our costs and that's something that can be done rather easily by putting on a council agenda and and that's something that as you as we move forward anytime we're looking at a a fee ordinance that we're going to try to put that provision in and then the hope would be to have a annual res annual fee resolution that you know we could then review like have it ready for reorganization meeting where we've reviewed it you know at the end of the year and make proposed new fee recommendations for the following year go back to the recommendation for the first year do a quarterly review especially as we get into the season and then I think that we need to have something that stipulates that once they're done charging the car as you said cannot be left in that spot um and that it they're given a 15minute grace period or something but once that happens wouldn't they just be responsible they would get a ticket for not parking in a legal spot they by by code you can actually treat it as s same as a handicap spot you could actually have their vehicle towed or towed but you can also see that the if they're still connected to the charger the fee goes up so like on a level two charger it's $1.75 for the first four hours after that it's $3.50 per hour so you know once the vehicle's done charging the if you leave it on there the it starts okay it starts increasing the fees so that you know essentially they're paying for parking in addition to the charging I just want to highlight that for everybody good if someone stays in the spot longer past the time the car is already charged it automatically goes up and up and so frankly we would be getting more money than we would if it yes if it was just parking yeah and if it's at the Welcome Center they're paying for the parking already why why they're there too so um first year yeah how how much vacancy Factor there is I think collecting the data the first year is a good thing but um uh city manager dri you mentioned something about an email being sent out to everybody that your Char is full your car is fully charged that's that's part of charge point you know because typically a lot of these you it's a subscription service or you you register with them and and that's part of that is they have that part of their service I I think that's only if you have it set up to get the no to get that notification I mean I you might be able to show up there and just pay and not have your email Associated but but I'm thinking the way most of these work is they get an email back you know to say hey could we add to that email that you know something that the city will yeah will incre you know this will be increased it needs to be well they well they know they know the fee gets increased because when they that's on the user screen they're acknowledging when they swipe and pay for it they know that they see what the charges are and they know what those fees are so they already acknowledging those fees it's a lot like um Park Mobile yes if you've ever used Park Mobile a lot of times you have it a 15minute warning it'll say hey you need to feed the meter or else you're going to get a ticket you have 15 minutes to and not like the old days where you're running back to the meter you're just do it on your phone and and that's it it's just really the same way with a notification from charge Point may I make a comment mayor yeah sure Shane uh I appreciate your comments Mr Jagger it really made me start thinking about this um and it because that entire park lot over there is Park Mobile that it' be real easy to get that information that we're looking for um but the costs is what I I started really thinking about you know we're a new territory with these things you know electricity may go up the um what is the maintenance in the future for these things and my last question is do these uh apparatuses have a warranty what is do you know what that is when we purchase them the level two Chargers we already have a one-year maintenance and in the servic is included on the level three Chargers we have a five-year process I believe they have a I think it's a a fiveyear warranty on you know just like a general warranty that you'd have on both of them but we've already signed up for the service is already prepaid for one year on the level two and and uh Five Years on the level three so it's already included in what we've already paid this is very important to me because we've received grants for these EV Chargers in the past they've you know expired and a lot of the reasons was because it cost so much for us to um you know Fork up our portion of the money to do this um and I think because we are in new territories we really need to think about the maintenance cost because one year and 5 years is not very long and you know seeing how the electric uh car industry is changing rapidly from what we thought it was going to be 5 years ago so I just think we need to keep keep these things in mind you know to maintain or replace these things may cost us so much that it may not even be worth replacing we we talked to the when during the startup we talked to the manufacturer when they're out there and you know they have the Chargers similar to this that have been out there for over 10 15 years so it's you the technology is pretty robust it's all modular so if one thing replaces like something happens to the cord it's just a replacement of the cord so it's it's pretty functional and replacing and that'll be part of how we review this on an annual basis any other questions or comments Council okay we have a motion and a second uh roll call please council member Jagger yes council member Meyer yes council member McDade yes Deputy Mayor Balwin yes mayor mullik yes all right next we have ordinance I'll make I'll second motion by um councilwoman McDade seconded by councilman Meer any questions or comments Council okay roll call please council member Jagger yes council member Meyer yes council member McDade yes Deputy Mayor Balwin yes mayor mullik yes okay and the next part is the public portion on resolutions only anyone wish this speak come please come to the microphone on the resolutions this evening state your name and address for the record uh Stacy Shan 928 Columbia Avenue my question has to do with uh resolution 83 authorizing a one-time stiping for payment and I think that's in 2020 three and it's for three people there and I guess my questions are these are all new stiens obviously I guess that's why you're doing it by resolution that haven't been given before and my question is um there's two totaling $6,000 for municipal court and municipal court administrator and I I guess I'm questioning this because isn't that a shared service and are we not sharing that stien with West Kate May that cost it's it's it's really have to double check the it's really for the it's not for the court administrator it's for the deputy court administrator and the clerk that's in the court office so I can me look at that real quick the court administrator is a shared service with West Cap May the employees that are identified in this resolution are city employees they're not part of a shared service they're not part of the shared service no they're city employees and I guess I I my other question is um for the stiping what did they do that was above their job and it was it after hours did this St since it's a statement I would think that they were doing this after their normal workday or if they if it isn't then were they able to get everything all their work done and why are we giving them a stien for a normal 9 to-5 job so what had happened last year the uh the court system rolled out a new set of various programs that required additional training um and typically in the summer we hire a part-time seasonal person in that office to help with the additional load that happens during the summer with the additional parking tickets that are increased the volume uh at court uh in in lie of hiring that part-time seasonal person the staff worked to get instead of having to train this part-time seasonal and their train themselves on this new system they work to do the required training and do the extra tickets in house as opposed to hiring a part-time seasonal for that year because of training on this new system and it was something that was negotiated with the prior city manager okay cuz I I would think that if it went all electronic be a lot less work for them to do tickets because that was a whole that was a whole selling point of going electronic with the tickets well it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't our ticketing issue it was the the New Jersey Court System changed their processing of how they administered the court on the court side it had nothing to do with the eting that we did with the parket tickets process okay I just didn't know why this dipen wasn't approved before it was paid out I can't explain that it's we're doing it now it's it's that's why it's on the well it was paid out in 2023 it was not paid it's it's not been paid this this if it's approved would authorize it to be paid that's why it's on the agend for work that was done in 2023 well it's recognizing that that additional work that was done yeah okay cuz um there these statements still aren't on aren't added to the ordinance they're not because if you look at the title of this it says onetime stien payment okay it's not int that that goes to the kind of one-time nature of what was required of the employees that's what manager so anytime somebody does a little bit extra they're going to expect a stien no no okay and then because what about the water and sewer department they got a $3,500 s that that may become a reoccurring uh stien uh we changed how the right now when at the water treatment plant if an alarm goes off for a valve or a pump or something not working properly it would call the operator he would have to drive in after hours check on it and move a switch and do whatever the new computer system that we upgraded to it sends the code to the operator at home he can look at on phone press a few buttons and then electronically can reset move a valve or make the appropriate adjustment uh that is essentially now he is working after hours it is a cost Savings of he can do it from home on his phone so there's a a actually a reduction in the cost of instead of him having to drive in on an overtime charge to come in for a minimum show up time to to throw a switch so that that may become a reoccurring but now is it one person or number of people one person just one person one okay um my other one has to do with uh resolution 6802 and it has to do with the am Church uh for Capital preservation grants with the New Jersey historic trust it's going after a grant for 7 $750,000 for interior restoration of the am church and it states in this resolution that the city has already authorized a matching fund of $750,000 towards this my question is why isn't the theater company paying for these improvements and what are these improvements because since we removed the pews remov the plaster walls I'm not sure what were restoring in there that would be historic well if if you're inside the the building right now it essentially a shell stripped of down to the studded walls and exterior sheathing so whether we had a current lease with anybody or wanted to open that building as a um public use for the city we felt incumbent upon we have to at least bring it back to a shell of a building that's enclosed at at 1.5 million based on the current construction costs and values that we've been seeing that that's a an estimate that we might be have to to see and that's just to bring it back to put some restrooms in to replace the restrooms that were there and electric and heat and air condition and ventilate that existing space has nothing to do with whether or not the theater company might want to do an addition and and renovate it put up special lighting for lighting theater area it has nothing to do with any of those upgrades that may because I didn't know if um historic preservation included heating and air conditioning that wasn't in the church beforehand and are we put on a second floor for the for the uh Theater Company also in there no that's not included in the price no okay um the other my another question is just a short one uh resolution 72- 2024 it's a submission and the execution of Grant applications and the first one is authorizing to apply for the Local transportation project fund grant for funding the prominade and I just want to know what that uh prominade funding is going to be for so last year we had a uh a assessment done on the entire prominade as part of our submittal to the state for some uh I think we applied for almost $24 million of uh enhancements and Renovations of the existing prominade this is not for the proposed expansion that on the south end that we already have been doing the permitting on this is the existing prominade as it exists today um so as part of that assessment we looked at hey there there's some this other do funded Grant has eligible for the prominade repairs so we're going to apply for a grant to do some of the prominade repairs in advance since we have not heard if we're going to receive the state funding repair or grant for the prominade repairs so it's kind of just in addition to so just for clarification then this grant is for improvements to the already established prominade for and most of it is for repair I mean obviously if anybody's driven along the prominade there's you know cracking efflorescence you know there's repairs that need to be done to the the existing prominade as okay that wouldn't be the County's responsibility for that seaw wall that that's there no no no okay CU I know they're responsible for the other part that's decrepita you know that's decaying there but they're not responsible for the other part no I just want is it so it's not for arches or anything it is not for any of the Arches no okay thank you yep and just to be clear that uh the the fund for the am church is you know a historic trust Grant um for $750,000 there's it's a no-brainer to apply for that $750,000 if we don't get it we don't get it but but I think we have a really good chance of getting that 750,000 well I I understand that same same way with the the seaw wall this is applying for a grant again on a grant that we've been receiving leing um multiple years to fix up the promots I just want to be clear these are good things to do for the city well the thing is it's it's not this the grant 750,000 it's just that the city has to kick in $750,000 so that makes our project 1.5 million to uh redo the inside to put a theater company in there that's really not going to pay the city the cost and I thought their contract was to pay the cost for as the city manager explained that's not for the theater it's for the interior of the building and and I think um it frankly it's going to be beautiful and and so far that project has cost very little money to the taxpayers because it has been done through grants so this is kind of continuing that and that's one of the reasons the projects has gone a little bit slower than other projects but we want to base it on grants and as grants have um come up we apply for those grants and hopefully receive them right but I so far we have if you're going to restore the church you should be putting the back in there that went with the church to me that's historic preservation and restoration not to put chairs in there for a theater company when the pews are what naturally goes with the church thank you there it's going to take a lot to restore that church believe me and and you got some good people up here working to do just that Trisha tvy 719 721 Franklin Street okay um and um of course I'm here for 7402 2024 um tonight I heard from the gentleman who was here about this the um parking lot that you're going to put next to my house and this is going to be when the house is is demolished the CCI is going to be demolished um so do do we have a start date on that not yet there's no start date no no okay all right um because I'm thinking I am very close to that I don't know if you realize how close I am to that building and I know that you have to inform me about it because I am 200t we'll say 10t maybe but 200 so I would really like to know when that's going to happen and what you know what is what precautions are going to be made to protect my house because um number one the dust is in was incredible from the library um you know when they were doing the cement um it it just was really bad and then it got so bad I couldn't redo my porches I had to wait till like June early June to do the porches and I had to hurry up and do them because he said well you know I'm going to start the man the gentleman who's the overseer of that he's a great guy and he did come over and he did my porches a couple times he you know par washed them so I am thankful but now they're filthy again because they did all the other work so if you could maybe get in touch with him and and see if he can power wash my porch now that they're almost finished with the library which he said he would be more than and happy to do the whole front of the building so um I am I am going to await that but I'm more concerned about what's going to come next to me because that's going to be a lot of dust with the Demolition of a building and I'm not that far away um so I hope that you will um let me know about that you know when that happens and also I would like to see the plans for what is going to happen on my street um that would be pretty nice and I also am concerned about the street lights because I know that um sturdy bank has the really nice lights the real Philadelphia Gas lights and um I'm hoping that that's going to be the same that's going to go on the street that that is the plan gas okay and then my curbs um I I just love those curbs I'm very I'm a very Victorian person and I really get into the you know I came to K May because it is and everything is just so Victorious and I love that period so I I just don't want my curbs taken you know the curs first off the goal of of the entire project is improving on the historic look so when you look at the project what is it well mostly it's turning concrete sidewalks into brick sidewalks um where there are no sidewalks doing a brick sidewalk you may know that Washington Street here has the brick yes I remember when they did that that stops at Franklin Street of course yes we would make them continue that curve and go all the way down to Lafayette Street then of course do that on the same side in front of the bank it really is kind of the formula for what would happen for the rest of the block if you look at sturdy Savings Bank they have a beautiful brick sidewalk with gas lanterns that brick sidewalk would be continue down to Lafayette Street create again brick crosswalks where the again remember this is going to be the library so we're going to have a lot more traffic um of public coming in and out um hopefully the am church will be restored and used yes by the theater but also by the citizens of city of Kate May for different events um so we hope to have nice CR crosswalks across the other portion of it is a beautiful seating area right out front on the lawn of um of the library but that's really the Crux of the projects which has been presented you know to council um before and certainly you're welcome to take a copy of this I would love to have one thank you I appreciate that I I just have thankk and I I just um actually have really quick questions that I also um wanted to ask you um I understand that next to me is going to be a parking lot and the state mandates that you put so many charging stations in there that's correct like when when you that lot's not large enough to hit that mandate so there won't be any electrical vehicles I was just wondering because the Street's going to be so Victorian and it's going to be so nice with the brick sidewalks and then you're going to see these electric Chargers and just takes away and then he was talking about the library and he's going to have some kind of what did he say a a lighted Banner or something that's going to go on the library a lighted banner I think I think the way finding is is just think of um on the side of some of the gas posts where you have a banner that welcome to Cap May or or you know just a a small three foot long four foot long Banner all right I I just was a little worried about that you know I'll happening you the street has been under construction for quite a while you know um it's just one more I just don't H I just don't really want it to happen in the summer I be you know but you said it wasn't going to it's going to be it will not happen during the summer no okay well that is very appreciative and maybe we'll take a rest during the tours too Christmas time okay all right thank you okay thank you okay Jules Rous 1010 New York Avenue uh I'll go back to this the question that Stacy raised am I correct it's it's $750,000 Grant application and $750,000 coming from the City of Cape May to put into that interior that building to restore it is that is am I correct in that yes this Council believes that a million a half dollars spent on that building is a wise investment absolutely and and and to not go for $750,000 would be absurd we we we need the money it's going to be an expensive project and we want to get it done if we if we don't get the grant then we don't get the Grant and we don't spend that amount of money but I think to restore that church to what I think I hear from most people is that they want to restore it to the grander that it once was yes that's going to take some funding and let me just say I think we purchased that property for $400,000 $400,000 for two lots in the city of Cap May that was a very wise investment and that building a couple years ago was listed on New Jersey's 10 most endangered historic sites in the city of K may we have restored that to the point that you see it now with a um Cedar Shake roof restored the beautiful stained glass windows painted the building gotten everything on the exterior watertight redid All of the um necessary siding all of those things that all for basically no money to the taxpayers so this process uh to not only save the building save it from the 10 top 10 most endangered list again same with the Franklin Street School same with the Harriet tubbin Museum all of those things were just a couple years ago were on New Jersey's top 10 list of most endangered historic sites in the state so to do these things is going to cost some money but I think if we're able to get a grant for $750,000 we'd be crazy not to match it my next question is and Frank can I just Jules if I can just interrupt if the bids come in and the price is only a million dollars then it's $500,000 from us and we only use $500,000 of Grant funds but we've estimated at the higher point just because of how construction costs have been but if the if the bids come in less then it's still a you know we're getting 50 cents on the dollar for those repairs so it's still but if if it's less we'll we'll spend less that was my next question if if you don't get 750 Grant what will you do so if it's if the grant is less you'll be matching that same Grant application approval if we don't get the grant we may be spending it 100% out of City funds or are you going to spend the 750,000 City money regardless of what the grant is no no that's not that's not irregardless no okay I just want to make it clear I I do not object to the restoration of that that church at all in fact I think it it's primary what I have a problem with frankly having been in that building business a little bit I find 150,000 I mean a million and a half dollars going into that building to be a serious serious issue okay my next issue is number 76022 24 um can you give us an explanation that 217,000 what was the the security camera project entail the uh CH I'm sorry go the bids were rejected obviously because we only received one bidder and it was over our what we had anticipated for that project initially um but it was to install C and security for both here at City Hall Public Works and a convention hall okay most of it exterior cameras so it's primarily new new camera additional cameras to provide security which not only is securing the buildings but also verifying we have a lot of trip and fall cases around and you know having those cameras are valuable in those kinds of things to help limit our liability to show if something did happen or didn't happen I can't think camera security as the chief knows is a great asset the other one is uh 7802 the the beach uh mats 269,000 that's is that a replacement or no these are new mats uh we applied for a uh DCA small cities Grant it's an ada8 Grant um so all these mats are 100% funded through the grant um and essentially we're going to have these are not mats that are going to be used going I'll say from the Crossovers out to the beach it's actually to have a these mats will run parallel to the prominade running essentially from The Cove all the way down to convention hall it will also provide a a pad area at commission Hall that if we have a some of the different Beach venues gives a handup area and mat area for those types of venues okay thank you very much thank you any other comments on resolutions this evening seeing none we can close public comment on resolutions all right next we are moving on to the consent agenda matters listed under the consent agenda are routine in nature and may be enacted by one motion and one vote items will not be read individually unless removed from the consent agenda by any member of council does council wish to remove any item from the consent agenda any anyone Council I like 85 85 okay anything else Council okay do I have do I have a motion on the resolutions I'll make that motion I'll second roll call please council member Jagger yes council member Meyer yes council member McDade yes Deputy Mayor Baldwin yes mayor mullik yes I know we removed 85 there apologize um do I have a motion on resolution 852 2024 so moved do I have a second I'll second questions or comments Council anything okay roll call council member Jagger yes council member Meyer no council member McDade yes Deputy Mayor bulwin yes mayor mullik yes all right any old Business Council any old Business Council any new business city solicitor nothing tonight mayor thank you I'm sorry I had old business I have old good I call yeah guys are moving along here okay never mind so I have to uh I want to talk about um some time ago after the Ford Scott annual audit was uh published last year there was some concerns expressed uh in this um at one of our meetings about um the results of the audit um where there were seven areas of um the finances that the audit ident that the Auditors identified said they needed some corrections and improvements um and at that time um I volunteered to work with the CFO um to make up a list of all the items that were addressed in that audit and uh Kevin and I got together sometime later we put together a list of 17 items and uh I wanted to just uh get you up the date um the critical items that were related to reconciling the city payroll and the clearing accounts and the account transfers to accomplish the segregation of accounts um I'm happy to say have all been completed and I believe Kevin had talked about that in the previous meeting um in addition to that um the well one of the items the analysis of the Lifeguard pension fund um it's there were requesting an Actuarial analysis um that hasn't been done yet because we have to hire an outside firm it cost money and there was no money in last year's budget Uh Kevin has uh made sure that there is a line item in this year's budget to hire a firm to do that um Actuarial analysis so that will be performed sometime in early 2024 once the budget funds are approved um with the rest of the items um everything's been moving along um six of the items addressing payroll procedures and forms um were all part of an ongoing process throughout 2023 there I mean there are quite a few items in there to be worked on and and at this time only six issues of the 17 that he and I identified remain um and are and all of those are expected to be adress addressed prior to the next audit which will be I guess sometime early this year so just to let everybody know it the the audit was not ignored it was uh the critical items addressed right away and everything else is under progress so perfect thank you for your work on that Mike surely okay uh okay uh new business city manager thank you um I just wanted to put on the agenda the um we received from Stockton the uh annual report for the uh Beach monitoring uh just just I think it's really important just to highlight that just so the public sees that we do to uh keep an eye on the beaches um annually um so this is the summary report that the Stockton did uh there was a I'll say an overall loss of um obviously Beach uh sand on beach but it was kind of you know some of the beaches lost some sand and some of the beaches gained um the beaches that gained were more towards um Baltimore and the beach club area up that way um but obviously as you got in the center of town um Grant Avenue and then that stretch through there is where we lost a lot of the sand uh on the beach so uh it just is always good to keep an eye on it and um you we share this information with the Army Corps of Engineers as they uh move forward uh with a next potential Beach fill in the upcoming years and and sharing it with Taylor as well yeah this is also um you know we have the beach Management Consultant uh getting on board they've been collecting all the data and this is part of the vital data they they've collect they've received all the stock data reports so they'll be able to plot all that and really give us historical analysis as well as they're in the process of getting all of the army Corp and D surveys uh and then they'll kind of put that all together and uh report back to the beat Safety Committee on an initial report and before they bring back to the Council on some potential recommendations I think Paul we were expected to get that maybe in uh sometime in the summertime yes yeah yeah which is really going to be benefit good information that we'll be able to see you know real-time data y as far as how how things are shifting what are the recommendations and where we need to go thank you and then the other other item I had was the uh parking management system I know we briefly touched on it we had five vendors again that submitted uh rfps didn't quite wasn't able really to be able to have all the staff review it and able to have a uh recommendation for tonight's council meeting but I anticipate at next council meeting to make a recommendation uh for the park management system at the next meeting that's great okay stepping in Deputy city clerk any announcements yes so on um March 11th from 9:00 a.m. to 300 p.m. the K May City is sponsoring an American Red Cross blood drive at convention hall so you hear it all the time but it's the truth the need is great um and not that people need any more reason to visit Kate may but uh tell your friends and family come on down donate to a good cause and uh and let's make a difference so thank you thank you Deputy Mayor just one thank you to um our uh city manager we as a council now are getting real-time updates on all of the projects that are going on and I really appreciate that that's you know really kind of keeping us in the loop as far as what what is happening um because there's so many moving parts and um you keep us really up to date and informed thank you and again if you see anything that on what I'm tracking that's not on there that you want me to track on a regular basis just let me know and I'll I'll add it to that list Council woman McDade um just very briefly um working with um G fasel and Casey rigan we're trying to um look at uh additional safety tips around use of lsvs for the summer season um and we got a suggestion actually from Bob Elwell was a very good one uh about maybe having the vendors put something on the dashboard um highlighting this the uh requirements for driving age uh child restraints things like that just something a small Placer so we're in the process of doing that and then um Chief and I are going to meet back with the uh vendors again in April give them the brochures but ask them to apply these onto the dashboards as they're running them so just you know sort of right there uh in front um to try and improve improve um you know Public Safety and the utilization of lsvs on the island uh for the upcoming uh season so that's great I'll bring that forward when we have our uh sample to show thank you councilman Meyer councilman Jer yes I won't be so brief but sorry now that it might not be that bad um so last year um you know the environmental commission is is on the a Zone to the environmental commission and they are very interested in a dark sky ordinance last year we actually passed a I I think I would call it a nuisance lighting ordinance which was pretty good idea it was I think uh hopefully it's helped a number of people in the city um to confront the the issue of invasive light from from Neighbors um be they commercial or um residential IAL so um back in December I'm not sure if Council remembers U the a new ordinance a draft ordinance was sent out from the environmental Commission on nuisance actually on the dark sky ordinance um and and the purpose of for people who aren't familiar with it the purpose of a dark sky ordinance is of course to reduce the amount of unnecessary light and in any given municipality um because it's you know one it's so energy wasting uh two it's harmful to Wildlife and three it's harmful to the environment as well so they've they've passed they've sent this um ordinance out to review um you know I've read it a couple of times it doesn't seem too you know I guess intense although it is technically um maybe a little bit challenging for the city but um they've asked me to get the ball rolling on it and so my question to you rest of council is there's I guess three ways I see we can go at this or two ways one is should we have a discussion schedule a discussion at a future meeting or should we send it right to the uh Planning and Zoning for their input on the um on the ordinance as written before we even get started on it and Mr Gillan Schwarz I'm not sure I can't remember if you were copied on that notice when it came out in December I remember uh some initial comments back when we were dealing with the light trespass ordinance but I don't know if I I saw that latest dra I'd be happy to take a look at it and certainly I think anything like that would probably involve uh eventually a planning board master plan consistency review too so it maybe uh should we just start there I mean I'll I'll forward it to you um it's what it is it's an ordinance that has already been passed by another city in New Jersey um and it's been enacted and it's just word for word copying their ordinance so I'm in favor of it it's just you know there's two major entities residential and Commercial you know in this town and we have to figure out where to draw the line when it comes to that because if you you know walk on a boardwalk at night you're seeing all these lit up hotels you know I just think we need to really think about who who who and where were focusing on this and I I also my comment um back to you councilman yger when I read it was was very technical in in in its language and my concern was in in in trying to interpret it for you know the average person um I just found that to be you know a little bit daunting you know you're people are reading it um and you know I think that the the technical aspects while I appreciate um you know that that is the the core of it but you know if we're expecting people to either adhere to it or understand it implement it um in their home or in a business um you know I think that it it does not um it's not very transparent in that and so that was my only criticism of it um you know it's if we are expecting people to adopt this to understand it to implement it um I I think there has to be something that sort of finds a middle ground um so Mr jger can I just ask from your discussions with the environmental commission is is the focus on sort of bringing dark sky into being by applying it to new development or is it something that you know adopted should be applied then or or or is there a more gradual approach to it was that discussed at all the um it it was and I think that everybody being reasonable nobody would expect that what we do is retroactively fix the city um you know and again the question is where are the problems technically and and so no I think that what we want to do is the this ordinance that was drafted is not as technical as um Malibu Beach which was another one that's out there um it's it's way out there um it this was kind of you know it's sort of built for New Jersey it's not awful um and I think the intent is let's just begin the process of of changing the way we do things and you know what one of the first things they said to me was that take a look at the lighting that's in uh over in kaanas park um it's a it's a perfect example of you know would if you would follow the guidelines of this ordinance that light intensity wouldn't happen it it would be there are measurements in there which would suggest there's no way the you know those lights would be ever installed in any park or anything in the city but where's balance to safety um and you know those are the kinds of things yeah well that's all and I think it's again and it's all undressed by the the fact that this is has been analyzed and um all of the the the standards have been established by International organizations can I make a suggestion then based on this discussion because I'm I'm hearing uh Council M's concerns about safety and there's always going to be some competing interest with this sure perhaps what we can do is I can get together with you on the the draft ordinance that's floating around requate myself with with that and maybe we can have something more substantive for Council to consider the five of you next meeting or you know an upcoming meeting so that it yeah I mean it's and and my real question was do we discuss it here or do we have technical input from HPC yeah I mean I would agree with having Planning and Zoning taking a look at it I'm just giving you my feedback after having read it a couple of times and just trying to I'm looking for the adaptability in in in the community um and from my perspective it it sort of is it new development is it existing are we going back and telling people to change you know their their current footprint of how their lighting impact is and and that's what I'd like to make sure we don't put together so I I'll send it I'll forward this to you and um we can um bring it back here again and have a discussion as to do we forward it or or don't we we have to forward it yeah so we should do that I mean in its in its current state well what's the normal process don't we I think Chris is had good advice yeah if if if you plan on pursuing it I think that's what you're you're trying to determine whether this is something Council wants to pursue it all and if it is well I I'm sorry I that's not it I I'm I want to determine I think we want to pursue something okay okay so what I'm asking is how do we get to that something we've got a start do we discuss it in Council first or does it go through the other three HPC I I would think my my U opinion would be to send it to the other to the zoning to to planning to ensure that it aligns with the master plan HPC has their design standards around lighting um at least allow those committees to take a look at it and and come back to us with their recommendations Incorporated so that we could move it on I mean you know at this point they're going to have to provide their input I'd rather have their input and look at something at that point in time well a few months ago if if we recall like everybody weighed in on it HPC did the environmental commission did they did and um because they they understood at the time what council was trying to do was something along those lines which is not what you not what we not what we did but we did receive those comments my my suggestion to council would be why don't we get a work product together that the five of you can you know that's a concept that we could potentially move forward with and then that will give HPC and the planning board an opportunity to comment on something more more than a concept here's here's an example of what we might consider and that can be redlined commented on and then at least we're working from a document um instead of a more than a cont ra I'd rather yeah so we can have a uh have a draft that you would provide as a matter of discussion at what the next upcoming meeting and and that that could get the ball rolling for that and Council council could adopt it on first reading or not or we could just recommend that the planning Board review it for master plan consisten on first reading all right great I just have one question does that include uplighting for for trees yes I love uplighting for trees and flags but but they're very constrained about it's got to be the tree only no nothing else kind of thing so it's sign I'm all for it yeah um and I'll just uh quickly say uh just remind people of pickle ball going on at at convention hall and roller skating I've done both actually roller skating with the kids pickle ball but has been a lot of fun so if if you get the urge go check it out it's at convention hall um it's most days give them a call they have the schedule but uh it's fun indoors you can still see the ocean and and have a little fun it's an easy game if you haven't played before too so cuz I hadn't and it was it was fun anyway with that we'll open it up for public comment anyone wishing to speak on uh any manner please come to the microphone hi list we've been here a lot of hours this evening however I would be remiss if I did not comment on the earlier presentation um and first and foremost thank uh Council uh mayor Deputy Mayor and Council uh for allowing MTR to become involved in the shared services uh agreement process that that process outdates most of us um unfortunately and unfortunately I was here when we took over West Kate May uh and K May point I also worked for K May Point Police Department and West Kate May Police Department as a West Kate May police officer um some 30 some years ago um so I I know the dynamic there we were forced into that by this proxy of the DCA saying this is what communities must do this wasn't like something Kate May said hey let's go do a money grab let's West Kate May let's dump this off on them it was a DCA project that said small communities should share the services and combine services so it was really quickly done um and Martin you're very correct there was no formula there there was no Rhyme or Reason of how these monies were derived it was okay let's look at this number that looks good for Kate May Point hey look at this number that looks good for K May Kate May are you good with it yeah sure at that time we had less officers we had less Community involvement we had less things going on in the world I think at that time still uh the lights went on blink at September here in Kate May and we continued that we are in 11mon town now um and we'll probably soon be at 12-month town which is good however um it cost it costs money the mayor and I have been in several conversations of how we've extended not we but the community's extended the seasons who's going to pay for those who's going to pay for these things so um uh the one thing I will say is during these meetings and I I applaud Martin and and Steve and and Miss McDade and also um Mr Gilling Sports and you to Dennis for being in me because it's grueling when they're sitting there taking numbers that are outdated and contracts that have Evergreen and you're looking at things that you don't have answers to of what you know if you gave Martin a mouth problem he'll solve it but he has no a blank slate it's hard to make up those numbers so I have to give respect to you guys for doing that because it's something that I couldn't do as a police chief nor could Alex cter as the fire chief give you good answers to why these things happen so um but I will say in the conversations it was very clear that that group of people um was concerned with West Kate May K May point it wasn't like hey let's just go throw money and numbers at these guys it was a compassion of those communities are our friends our partners and our sister our sister uh community so we we thought about that and we looked at how to best give them that information it was Martin's idea and Miss mcdade's idea to collect everything and they wanted every report they wanted every statistic and that's good because that way they could look at it and say now we can go forward and and give that information to those Burrows and give it to them clearly the transparency of it and make sure that it's done correctly my biggest concern was that we bring them into the conversation sooner rather than later and that's what's being done so that they're not blindsided they will listen to this meeting they will listen to whomever WR or read whatever is written here I wanted to made to be very clear this was done with the compassion of all of the people involved not just this superpower Kate May going we want the money it's not about that Miss McDade spoke about um the relationship the Quality quality and quantity we your police department and the City of Kate may have made a relationship a strong relationship with both Burrows um you can see it in the fire department how we've interacted with them with moving over there while we were in our time of need for a building they want to come over with us they want to continue to join with us we don't have volunteers in Kate may like we used to when I grew up up here there was 30 or 40 members in that department so West Kate May Mr Turner is a member over there I was a former member in West Kate May that's what you see Kate May strong is still continuing on no one could predict or could have predicted covid and George Floyd and body cameras and everything that I asked for the fire chief asked for a truck that cost $500,000 5 years ago now it cost a million too you know what I mean so these are costs we all shop at Walmart we all we all shop online everything has increased but with the help of the MTR are able to present a project or or at least a forward thinking that this is how it can be done and I believe that both municipalities will look at that hopefully appreciate that and the other question was are they going to want to farm it out and go elsewhere that's possible however your fire department and your Police Department have built strong relationship with both communities that they're not going to want to do that they're going to want to have a clean conversation about finances how it doesn't hurt their taxpayers and it helps us to make it all right and I can almost guarantee that that won't even be a we're going to go farm out they might think about it but I know the other communities and I know what they require over there K May Police Department K May Fire Department your public works department your water departments construction give that to them so that's what I'm proud of of being a k May member so we can do that I can almost guarantee that's the conversation it's not going to be easy like Martin said it's not going to be hey just sign here conversation and and transparency will need to continue and again I thank all of you for being a part of that conversation because it's not an easy one and and any type of agreement like that we're not just buying tulips we're buying services so thank you thank you Chief sitting there so long um Peter Cole 1075 Michigan Avenue representing the taxpayers association we're going to give you a little bit of a hedge up here um after the uh 16th of January's council meeting when you unanimously agreed to look into the aspect of cutting costs in the Departments here um the TPA met on the ne two days later and we discussed uh what perhaps we might like to say on that on this matter um we' like to present a position paper regarding the recyclable business here in K May um um we've not fully discussed it yet we haven't had everybody at our meeting so it's been a bit complicated with people sunning themselves in Florida probably um however uh one thing we are we did notice uh straight away is that we find it hard to believe the city is providing this service to the commercial businesses uh when the business itself can deduct the cost as the business expense uh that is one of many aspects of of what this what we're looking at but I'll just give you a heads up that's one part of it um we'd like to discuss this further at our next meeting and I'm going to announce that uh which is next uh Thursday the the no Thursday the 15th of um February at convention hallm Peter just to interrupt you uh but we'd be happy to provide any information for that meeting that you might want of course yes thank you very much we'd like that because this is something that we should be working absolutely with the city with I mean it's good for taxpayers and it's good for the city too thank you very much absolutely thank you thank you hi good evening good evening um my name is Kate schnitman and um I'm here from Rochester New York with my dad uh dick crossed and we own 9:15 Beach Avenue uh in 1978 when I was just 2 years old my parents brought me here with my five brothers and sisters for the first time and I've been coming here every every single year since and in 2009 at that time my parents had 17 grandchildren and uh seized the opportunity to purchase one of the very few homes in Kate May that could accommodate our very large families so 9:15 Beach Avenue it's uh on Jefferson between Jefferson and Queen on Beach Avenue just two doors down from um the seam Mist uh so you know pretty iconic block here in Cap May and uh it's a home that uh me and 28 of my family members uh plan to hold on for to for generations and I'm here to talk about something that I've heard we've already talked about a lot and that's parking so I just wonder if it's shocking to you that if my my dad uh 85 years old was to come here at the on Fourth of July he would have to feed a meter um feed a meter a couple blocks away and then walk to our house because the city of Kate May over the years has completely eliminated all parking spaces from our house when we bought the home we had four spaces plenty of space to park four vehicles when I approached the city of Kate May and I actually did send mayor mullik a letter in July when the city had put a parking meter another parking meter in front of our home I sent the letter certified mail I called I sent emails and there was no response I came to the town I've met with numerous people to talk about access to our property as safety and is the importance of we have a family of 29 people and for some reason the city under new new ordinances has decided that our curb cut didn't satisfy a driveway and has removed our ability to access our property so what we used to have when we bought the house we had it was the the the tradition here in Kate May uh those houses people could put there you could park your cars on the front lawn and that was what that was what was done that was very common practice the town said that you couldn't do that anymore and so what we did was we agreed with the town that we would have just a parking spot one parking spot on the street and that has been eliminated and when I go through all of this Malarkey with the town about how I can access A Home of which we own where we pay a tremendous tax burden when I talk to them I am told that I can get a sign put in front of my house so that one vehicle with one license plate can park and I'm just I'm stuck five $500 I can pay $500 for one vehicle I have a family of we're a big family that are utilizing this house we're coming from you know New York state Pennsylvania New Jersey we're a big family that love Kate May we've been coming here for many years um and I'm I'm I'm at a loss I I genuinely am here uh to appeal to the mayor to appeal to the councel for my family that we might be able to Simply park a car in front of our house to access our house that I might be able to drive up to my house unload my stuff without and it so it's gotten a little bit crazy with the parking and I'm asking for some some help I've tried to get a lawyer representation um and contacted numerous lawyers and they have refused to represent represent us because of a conflicts of interest of which I do not understand so it seems like there's something here I'm missing and I'm I'm here to I came here from Rochester just today for this moment to ask so I can possibly come to my house this summer and park a car so I've actually I think spoken to your father I believe and and have uh had actually I think a conversation with even your landscaper um but I can't as mayor retroactively say yes you can have a driveway I mean I just want to be clear about that I'm just asking I'm not well we did ask for a driveway and a driveway was denied because we were told but I just I just want you to be clear that I can't say that yes you can have that course you can I'm asking for a process I'm asking for just common sense that's all we bought a house in 2009 we had four parking spaces okay and now I have nothing completely blacked out I have pictures of my house I know that we now we don't have meters but from October just cars it's the most everyone wants to park in front of my house so why should isn't there some way I mean if there was a fire in my house I have when to talking about my landscaper my landscaper can't get to my house not in July because there's cars parked all around the house so I and I'm I'm asking for one parking space for 29 people so I think it's pretty reasonable and and mayor respectfully I I mean you I know my I know you did talk to my dad and I sent you a letter after the the the the meter was installed and I asked for your attention of course you can't I I understand your limitations but what I'm asking for is a process and I'm asking for common sense that's all because it seems like a rational person would sit here and say wow that makes sense that somebody who owns a house should be able to access their house with a vehicle there there is a process for all those things in the code there's uh designated spaces for handicapped individuals with placards if they reside at the premises there are um owner occupied uh resident permits for people that live there for one vehicle so I'm supposed to get see I'm look I just want to clarify I understand that because I did talk about that with you know my Dad yeah he could get a a thing and I've told been told that I could do this but what I'm trying to say is that when you have 29 people accessing a house and when you used to have when you purchased the house and you had four parking spaces and I can't get a lawyer to represent me and when I've gone through all these you know loopholes every solution seems oddly insufficient because I still at the end of the day on Fourth of July weekend can't access my house ma'am you you asked about process can I trying to finish that okay okay and sounds like you've kind of evaluated some of these things already but there is a process and there are options out there they're all in perfect right because that house was probably built before the Advent of all these cars and uses that are present today and we can't retroactively fix these parking problems throughout town the way buildings are designed and the way the houses are situated and the way those houses are situated you know you can you have the ability to apply for a driveway if you want to go through that process did okay well that's a process it was denied okay so I I applied I applied to the town of Kate May for a driveway and it was denied so I just and and then as a result I was told oh now that you were denied for a driveway you can pay $500 for one car to park on well to reserve a an otherwise metered parking space so that you have dedicated parking for for one car so I'm supposed to pick a car I didn't I didn't profess that those were perfect options but they are options okay but I don't I'm still stuck because it does seem like for many many many years for the the the 15 years since we've certainly the the 15 years since we've had the home we've had a perfect arrangement with the town of Cape May we just had one spot and that has been roked because my curb cut which by the way the town of Cap May redid All of the curbs okay and they put my curb cut right back there which means nothing it like I had a curb cut that used to allow me a driving space to park a car and now the curb cut won't give me anything so I'm I'm just it's like something happened when we weren't paying attention and I got this this letter from the town of Kate May saying that somehow I don't satisfy their their criteria and not only that I have photos and I'm happy to show you there as of October of last year there was not one house on the street that was completely blocked off like my house not one other houses have preferential treatment I have a neighbor Three Doors Down they actually had a meter removed from the front of their house around the same time as which a meter was put in front of my house so I'm sitting here like oh that's interesting so they don't have a meter there and they Park their car right in front of their house and they have a driveway so I'm I'm like wow that's that's just I mean I have I have photos I'm happy to show you I mean we have people down the way they have no um no meters no nothing just so and that's what I'm talking about with safety when I'm saying like can the fire department access my house no Can the police no no one can come to my house with a vehicle and that just seems just so the process I've gone through the process and every time I go down a different avenue I'm stuck with another solution that is somehow inadequate for a home that is shared by 29 people it's always going to be inadequate and I I can hear your frustration but there is there is the process out there there is an option and it's but all you can do is mitigate these things right because you're talking about parking in in front that is that's a beautiful area I know your house it's a beautiful house among other beautiful houses on that row but you know you run into things in the city of Kate May because parking in in the front yard is something that the historic preservation standards don't we don't want to park in our front yard we just want to park a car in front of our house or we want n we want space in front of our house where tourists are not parking we don't want to park a car in our front yard that's we just want to be able to access our property which to me is beyond just parking we're talking about accessing a property that you own so I we're kind of Beyond five minutes which is fine I just one of the things here is this is a zoning issue and and and apparently the zoning board denied it is that what you're telling us yes okay the we so we applied for I mean I just want to be clear that this Council doesn't know this I mean i' I've gotten a letter but we didn't have kind of the facts presented to us and and and advice from the solicitor of the zoning board I I just want to be clear that you went through the zoning process they denied it there's an appeal process and I'm not advocating one way or the other and I all I can say to you is that I'd be happy to look into this but just don't expect the mayor and no one up here as a city council member is going to be able to overturn the zoning board I just expect an answer and some acknowledgement that this is a little bit unreasonable I mean can we acknowledge that it's unreasonable that there is a home that is inaccessible I mean that is the most rid I that we have had our parking virtually eliminated over time that we so that it's not uncommon it's it's pretty it's very common in our town because it's it was not built to to our current you know having all these cars and all this other stuff it's just we have small small roads and things like that and you know my time being on the planing board we had a house that had no driveway no parking front the house they were willing to pay to remove a drainage telephone pole a fire hydron and a part of the port just to put a driveway in it and that was just too much you know I just think and and and to talk about from the taxpayers association site or or you know uh your committee you know that's that's Revenue that that all taxpayers share you know so you can't treat one particular situation unique compared to the rest of the town are facing the same I actually think our situation is unique and I mean I I think and like I said there are it's just just the why why why why why why was it that we were entitled to have a parking space with our curb cut and then it was just removed for for years like we're we're talking about for one spot when did this occur 2022 so I have here just some photos if you're interested I can give this around this was um some pictures of the historical parking where we used to have a driveway when the town told us that we you know we knew we couldn't park in front anymore we removed that we put grass there and the curb cut was there and then we the town moved a meter in front of our driveway in 2010 the town moved a meter in front of our driveway and the town gave us a spot on the other side and said you get a driveway parking permit I actually have a a valid driveway parking permit but the unfortunately the driveway there's nowhere to park it because there's meters there so the town has given us and reissued a valid d gra parking permit permit 102 every year but we have nowhere to put it cuz tourists are parking in that spot um and then I'm I have some pictures here showing how just the time over time how we've lost our space and I also have pictures here of our neighbors who had a parking meter removed just for what reason I I don't know how they how how that works I had you know I have pictures of other neighbors on our street that have favorable parking and I have that here and I also have a a letter that I wrote to the mayor where um I kind of explained some of the things that we've gone through over the last since I think we've been struggling with this since about 2020 I would say there was some the town remarked the ground so we used to have a a orange marking and the town repaved or did something and we lost the marking and we had asked them to re you know to redo that and that went on for a couple years we and then in 2022 when we appealed that was when the town said that they would not give us a driveway parking pimit which that was the agreement that we had had for the 15 years or so was that we had a way parking permit and um so they said that they couldn't give it to us because we didn't have a driveway and the reason why we didn't have a driveway was again Town said we couldn't park in front of our house anyways so and I know that this affects and I know that the town is redoing their um you know your parking situation with your whatevers you know we don't have meters anymore and I know that this is and I know that this will affect a a number a few of my neighbors that I know had the same arrangement we had and I I know that it's probably been taken away and I so so and next steps for me are what would you like to meet with I what what can I do what's the next step I look I'm not your attorney I'm just asking I can't get an attorney which would be great if I could get an attorney but there is no one that will represent us which is just I look I can't help you with that but there there are options in the code and I would encourage you to exhaust those if if you haven't already done so okay from my from where I stand over the last three years since I've been dealing with this I think I've I've run up against a while that's why I came here that's why I drove from Rochester to be here tonight because I I'm I'm I don't know what else to do so um I'm stuck and again I'm representing a large family I'm I I I'm stuck paying $500 what is it that you're asking councel to do you have one parking permit right now right I have no parking permit she has a driveway I have a driveway parking permit that I can't use because there's been a meter put there and so it's useless I mean what's a what's a parking permit when you come on the 4th of July and and and someone's parked in your spot so can they pay for a parking permit then they don't want to pay resent there's there's no well I could pay for the resident 500 well why should I pay $500 because because because it's a metered space okay so it's it's on street parking that would otherwise be used by the public instead it would be dedicated to somebody who it lives there does not have off street parking that's what that's for the $500 is according to the Cape May W book or whatever is for one car one particular car and like I said that is very complicated for my family so um you know we can have something in writing that says that I can have I'll pay $500 and any car can park there and I'd you know something that says you I'm not going to get ticketed by the police if I don't have you know that that we can have any car parked there and I I could pay $500 but the reason why they're not transferable to other light properties are is we have issues where if somebody seasonally rents their property and they get this driveway permit then they use it for their renters and not for the individual so the the the theory is that this $500 fee is it's a fee to help recoup some of the and it doesn't even cover much of the Lost income that the city would receive for that spot but it allows a resident that owns and lives at the property to be able to park in front of their home and this is a common you know we give out a lot of those types of permits because you know frankly there's a probably there's probably more places that don't have parking spaces that have driveway spaces in the city of Kate may as well as not just City K May most of the barrier islands in the area areas where there because historically the town of cap may never had before we go any further I just want to make sure that there's no one else that wants to speak I'm not going to cut you off but we we're past well past 5 minutes and I if there's other folks who want to speak I I want to make sure they have a chance to do so I can respect that okay so we we I'd be happy to entertain you if you would like to come back up but I'd like to go to the next person if possible okay Stacy please so I guess I I just can I just have my next steps because I do I mean I do want to know how to follow up after this because I can I can I can pay $500 for this space but it parking permit available but it's not for purposes of using it for seasonal rentals we don't rent our house we don't rent our house okay so that's I mean I can we don't rent our house it's not rented it's that's fine there's an option in the code for that and can you help me find that option it's you can go to you can go to the city clerk's office and apply for the permit and I will get in writing that this will be for any vehicle no you're going to you can apply for we're not writing a new code on the Fly for this there's a provision in the city code to apply for this type of permit you can apply for that type okay I have to insist we have folks waiting and and we we will come back to you that's thank you for being patient Stacy Shan 928 Columbia Avenue um my first question has to do with ordinance 527 usually you do cross outs additions I didn't see there any cross outs and additions in that one cuz I noticed that there's three new stiens and three taken away I I didn't know there was a reason why things weren't crossed out and the new ones usually you do that there there was nothing in there it was all it was all just added all the attachments I got were all there was no nothing crossed out do you want to see mine okay that's not what we had on the online it was all just yeah I don't know if it would be until it's passed yeah I mean they just had all the new ones listed they have usually though when Mr Gillan Schwarz does a ordinance he does do for for the public what's been added what's been crossed out like you did with the one previous before that oh not the actual yeah I I wasn't the author of this version but and and some towns don't even do the red line like we've done in the past but the agenda packet that was sent out had the redline version in okay I mean you reach out to the clerk's office sure I I'll get it from her and that's fine um I guess my question were about the three that were added is there any kind of um description on what the job entails because I think before we had put that in there on what they entail well the I think we only added two well you added we added safety coordinator right and that's a position under the GIF that they coordinate you know it's a safety coordinator position under the GIF title so they do work for that the other one is that after hours water sewer response was was the one that I discussed earlier right that they do the after hours response so those are is it listen anywhere that these descriptions are what they are or I think no I mean I just described I know but usually they put them in writing at the clerk's office I thought so that anybody knows what the description is for the stien they're pretty I mean we don't have a written description but there's pretty exclamatory to what they are okay uh my second one has to do and the GIF has a description of what require right it just says safety coordinator it doesn't say GIF safety coordinator so I didn't know it was understood there my other question which I had come to my I forgot to mention this when I was up here before is the am church is anybody here aware that they're looking to get rid of the organ in there so much for restoration and historic preservation there when you're looking to get rid of got rid of the pews and now you're looking get rid of the Oregon that that shouldn't happen ezy on some of these kind of accusations that you make I'm going to start betting you because I'll bet you as much as you want that that or pews from the church what I'm sorry did you remove the pews from the church and they're sitting in storage right because what they were supposed to go out to to to be donated to somebody who may want them right because you weren't putting them back in the church right if you if you were going to put them back in the church they wouldn't be going out to be sold what do you want to bet that that organ stays there okay what do you want no well see I hope it does the microphone well I hope it doesn't but my understanding that is that what theater company wants to do any skin in the game I'm serious I want to bet you that that organ stays there I hope it does Joel or okay Zach I hope it does you can't come up to but thew are gone with some rumor that you heard that's absolutely ridiculous when all these folks are putting all this effort into restoring that building that's what council is trying to do that's my thing I want the I want the Oregon to stay and I want the pews to stay I'm looking to keep it historic then say that don't come up and say hey you're getting rid of the Oregon I said that's why I said I had heard that you're getting rid of the Oregon is what I said it's it's just it it's these rumors are ridiculous whole in is to take a dilapidated building and make it beautiful just like we're doing at the library just like but you're looking to take the church and not make it a church are you going is that the next thing maybe I will Zach maybe I will but anyway my next question has to do with um the Army Corps over in lower Township is letting in salt water into the back areas and I didn't know if the council here was going to take any um stance on if they think it's good or not if it going to affect our groundwater by letting that saltwater come in by the Sportsman Club into that area the NJ D's project I thought it was Army cor's project over at Higg Wildlife not higsby it's right there behind the Sportsman's Club that is hibe right right behind a magnesite plan right yeah the the purpose of that is twofold you know about nine years ago I saw a presentation at the mosquito commission and it's about reducing you know mosquito larvae back there by creating more of a flow with that that that that uh that title Creek um part of that project they're also going to build a burm on the Inland it's very large area you know inside the meadow so if you ever walked on the trails there and you took that high hill and looked out that's where that bm's going to be so these areas going to be protected from that title flow right but I didn't know if it I was just wondering if the council had taken a stance on it because it will be allowing salt waterer to come in closer and and it could be contaminating some of the people's Wells with salt water well I I support it individ I personally support it because they're trying to create better outflow with that project as well the water does come in there already no right now it's all fresh water I believe no no that that at the title Creek that that Creek fills up from from the uh bay goes into that area and then it re uh drains out every day and that's why every other day that's why the creek changes directions if you go there you know what you know they're having a meeting on Thursday night and that's you know I guess we they'll have more details to answer to answer your question I've I've uh personally let the D know my um stance on not wanting though salt water coming in um but you know look it's not our project um I'm thrilled that they're re redoing the magnesite plan I mean that that's been needing his um um environmental cleanup for for many many years um so I'm thrilled that they're doing that I think to be blunt I think it's dumb to bring saltwater further into our community yeah okay okay I I was just wondering if it goes any further about maybe Council taking a stance on that my last question be really quick um since the firehouse isn't completed yet it was supposed to be done in the fall I think it was something in the contract that said that the um contractors would have to start paying for when they are late like every so week or so are we is the city going to look into them paying for the fact that the project hasn't been completed no okay any other comments motion to adjourn so moved thank you