e turn your mics on please uh 11:00 we'll have the pledge of legance please to FL flag of the United States of America uh roll call I guess can you taking care of that people I have listed Randy is here hope Justine um Mike Jones and Barbara the uh Merl sent out the uh the name and emails and addresses and phone numbers is everybody's number on right it looks looks okay to me it's the same one that I've corrected in the past but I've just added okay people okay all right oh and Charlotte's here also welcome Charlotte hi Charlotte my Charlotte and uh we have the minutes of November 2 8 for approval anyone want to make a motion motion to accept is there a second second I'll approve will say I I I and Sarah's she prob hopefully she'll show up we have a new member Sarah Stevenson I don't know her but I met her actually in oober no November oddly I had no idea she was is going to end up on the commission so okay we'll look forward to meeting her when she comes uh I have no report from the planning board uh we just had a reorganization meeting and we have one we have a couple applications coming up and uh Mike is not here for a report from him and Mike and Gretchen about the AstroTurf I I guess they've had a meeting about that anybody heard any scuttlebut about what's going on with that they sent a a memo which I couldn't find on my emails that's in there somewhere they said kind of a general report that there was a a a consensus of no except for public rounds like like miniature golf and places like that but I don't my understanding was that it wasn't an official decision but a kind of consensus on on this committee but it was pretty definitive I read I don't I don't recall where I read it that there were some exceptions to yeah uh and like miniature golfi golf was one of them and a couple of other small ones but that was all little small commercial sites correct yeah but I think we better wait and get somebody who knows what they're talking about I me I I I just hate to see a a band ban I know there's certain things that that shouldn't be allowed but certainly that's why you have these exceptions right right exactly I think the main concern is that people will start doing them on their yards it's like no yeah you don't want people doing their front lawn with it your lawn should be taboo or back lawn or any lawn well well I don't know about the backyard no things in the backyard that where you can't get anything to grow or anything you want covered maybe it's not such a bad idea but but isn't it like the foundation of it is impervious surface right so it impacts what like lot planning because C needs to be perious right right that's the problem with it it's impervious if it does uh rain on it it puddles and then pours off and it's made of essentially toxic material it's plastic and when it gets too hot you have to water it mhm well eventually it'll come back to the planning board again so I'll get another peek at it um yes sure sure Charlotte go ahead it goes before counil as a full ordinance complete I know that there will be exceptions to um you know condoning various uh Turf areas and that should be because would them but also that counil and its wisdom with an ordinance would remember that we are a New Jersey aut community that as many plants as possible for winter use for birds that stay in the area um so that they have shelter and food and water um and there are particular plants that assist them such as the Hol and the Winterberry um and if you leave some of your sunflowers and your blacke suit um then they have even more seed to feed on that could be a part of the ordinance I think because our identity does support um each and every year uh the butterflies and the birds that migrate and certainly South Jersey is noted for that so please consider that as part of the charl if you could if you could summarize that and get it to me because it like I said it's going to come back to the planning board maybe I can just insert it I get it in front of the planning board before it goes back to council okay thank you is that all right very much can you sure all right I'll make sure that I'll make sure we get I interject that at the planning board meeting when it when it comes up okay all right hope you have anything on the the gardening update uh yes Charlotte um asked me to um forward the the uh presentation that Pat Sutton gave to the car Garden Club last month and I brought um a list of her websites and and references which um I can just some of you can take and pass on and I want to um read one of them out loud before I pass it on um if people really interested in what Pat Sutton does and I'll tell you a little bit out you should try to get on to Pat Sutton's Garden gang a website that she um uh prints she publishes uh periodically uh little reports and discussions on various topics of of interest to Nature uh for anybody who doesn't know Pat suon she's been working for about 40 45 years I think she said 44 years on um basically on Wildlife um in in terms of both Gardens and um animals um mainly from her base in her yard in in Goan and her presentation to the Garden Club was a a yearround uh report on what happens in her garden but I I thought uh for today since it's the time of the year that I would concentrate on um this time of the year and I have another flyer and I just have one copy of it but you're welcome to copy it's called leave the leaves and it's it's one of her big things and it's mine also that you should not um rake up or grind or mow um or cut back um many of the plants that go dormant in the fall because underneath there and on the on some of the plants are uh not only creatures that are protected for the winter and plants um the leaves particularly serve as a mulch um but if you look outside if you have feeders or even if you don't if you look outside you will see that there are birds scrunching around um pushing aside leaves finding food finding seeds finding bugs underneath in your lawn and in any part of your garden where you have left the leaves and it's a great justification for people who at one point say it's too cold I'm not going out there um and then your excuse is no I don't want the you know we want to protect things and now as you see that the snow is melting bulbs and things are already starting to come up and that's a part of why uh she promotes leaving the leaves on the ground it serves also as insulation so that if the ground should freeze which it it did slightly um during the week it does not it protects um plants and and Little Critters and things and bugs that are down there that was the essence of her of her uh presentation and she went on to talk about the other uh seasons in her garden but if you see all of these um websites all of the uh various references in this handout um um people should go and check on them and if you join Pat Sutton's Garden gang anybody who's listening would like to do that um please do and you will uh you will have access to all of the information that she has it's really important I think at this time of the year to remember that you do not want to neaten up your garden you don't want to shovel out the mulches you already have and uh you don't want to get rid of the leaves and other things that have fallen birds are eating seed heads they're still eating them in my garden and they're still after the uh Beauty Berry and some of the other things that have been left there so are the squirrels but there you are that's what happens and that was the essence of her report I really recommend anybody who's interested in any of these topics to find Pat Sutton um to get on her website and if she is giving a program uh to try and get to some of those she's doing a um uh dragon fly program in milville um next month that's I think the first one that she's done this year I've taken bird and butterfly walks with her um over the years and been to her garden a couple of times it's you can learn a lot and enjoy yourself she's she's interesting she's a lot of fun and it's it's worth any trip or any any uh time you want to spend either reading or actually being with her okay anybody else have anything to say on that Charlotte looks like you're do you have any any information on climate change you'd like to talk about I do thank you very much folks um you know as I opened today's daily paper here where we are in Florida the headlines read Sarasota County prepare strategies to stem R effects and it goes on to that projects will include storm water management green INF infrastructure projects planting trees creating living shorelines all to help reduce flooding and improve water quality at the same time this analysis in Florida is because the entire state is surrounded by water in the coastal areas and they're looking at Grants to fight the effects of climate change so here this is Florida this morning but I'd like to direct your attention to a couple of lawsuits and some youthful people are in the midst of trying to fight climate change through climate lawsuits in their particular State and as mentioned very briefly last year the mon Montana WI a climate law against their state for promoting fossil fuels and that particular state just said that indeed Montana Montana youths have a fundamental constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment which includes the climate as part of their environmental support system um and that evidently is found in their state constition and help them win a big case that they've been fighting for about six years with the state of Montana to um give them the guarantee that a clean and healthful environment is a part of what they should expect also listed are three other states that have S similar constitutional language they be Pennsylvania New York and Hawaii furthermore as we look at that particular document we then reflecting on a brand new lawsuit this one in oron brought by a group of young people 21 people can now finally proceed to trial after a federal judge in Aron says that their lawsuit cannot be dismissed the case extensively litigated since 2015 claims that the government Reliance on fossil fuels violates their constitutional rights to a stable climate furthermore in August of 2023 a Montana State judge ruled in the first ever climate change trial that the state failure to consider climate change when approving fossil fuel projects was unconstitutional the US produces a quarter of all of Emissions on Earth say that government provides the oil and gas industry with2 billion annually for subsidizing their businesses thus that they must provide redress for theable har that the US government is doing in terms of in fossil fuel so with all that said the Montana youth are going to go forward and this is a case for us to keep our eyes on and they will certainly be using any of the cont from the monana lawsuit that might benefit their federal case in oron so I wanted to bring that the attention of all of our commissioners it seems that amendments to the US Constitution can be proposed by a two3 vote of both the House of Representatives and the Senate whether we have the will to continue to fight for our environment is yet to be said and I think it's important because each of us is either a parent or a grandparent or a great grandparent and we should assure as much as possible that the youth have the right to live in an environment that is healthy for them so that's all I wanted to bring before the commission today look forward to that language and think about New Jersey we should study and I will certainly look into it and see where we are in terms of protecting our thank you can I add something very practical to that um I don't know how many people know this but there are only three insurance companies left anywhere who will um ensure property on Coastal communities like Kate May and you can find that out the hard way when your Comm when your insurance company calls up and says your policy will not be renewed um and we we have that experience ourselves and I know now a couple of other neighbors have too in Florida and Charlotte probably can confirm this um I don't think there are any insurance companies left who will insure Coastal communities um so if you want to to uh think in terms of our children's and grandchildren's future and we should do that we should think about our own um this is getting to be serious issue hope our condo association was hit with that um we I live at The Meadows of Cape island off of Lafayette Street and um our insurance for our 60 units was 110,000 it doubled to 220,000 and we had to uh find two or three different companies to come up with that because our original company wouldn't do it right okay so immediately we had to do a $2,000 a unit assessment to pay for the overage this year and raise our dues $200 a month neither popular but right essential we wanted to CH we we had we had this issue over a roof um and we wanted to switch insurance companies because they were pretty nasty with us about our roof and this is when we we found this out and we we called Al together I think seven or eight companies and they all said Gee we're really sorry but we can't do that so we had to stick with our old insurance company um in order to keep the premium there were two other companies who did it but the premiums were the same and it doesn't make any sense to start the whole process over and switch companies just because you're mad at your original one so um this and now my neighbor across the street just called us and she said they're canceling our insurance policy well we were cancelled within a week of renewal so no warning they just do it no claims or anything no she hadn't had a claim in 15 years we did not have a claim but we but our but our roof needed to be fixed I mean they they said either fix your roof or we're leaving anyway so uh and that was it but but there they had no warning or anything and we just thought well we're really mad at them we'll take our money somewhere else and there was no point in it there are only two other companies in the whole certainly in the whole country who do it and the premium was the same and it was it was high it was not as drastically increased as yours but it was and now we have a very nice roof we do we replaced all of this year last year it's something to think about it people can't not see into the future which many human beings seem to not be able to do think about right now that's been happening for a while now yeah I mean it's not I mean it's personal to you now but it's been 15 years it's been tough getting getting insurance on the Barrier Islands yes at a reasonable rate anyway yeah yeah you some of them you can get it at a very high rate but the ones we talked to didn't do it at all it's almost just like it's catastrophic insurance and not homeowners right and the problem is that they just look at topographical map Maps they don't look at our street which is really well drained and 10 ft above sea level and we say yeah but we don't flood here and they don't all they do is they look at the map and they say this is within 10 miles of a major body of water which in our case is both the ocean and the Delaware Bay and that was it I was able to do that to get homeowners insurance um without flood insurance using the FMA Noah maps and going to the bank and then going going the bank back to the insurance agency but it took a lot of leg work to prove to them that that like stretch of that road is not in a flood zone right and and that was we just made the decision that not to do not to make that kind of an effort and I'm not so sure how much we would have saved um but you you can't do it but you know that's what it takes well all of you are in a situation where you are an individual homeowner I was on the board at the time and it was not responsible not to pay insurance because there are 60 individual unit owners and a board is responsible for providing this so but I'm not on the board anymore I also had a problem with my flood insurance and I had to initially it was okay because the fee wasn't so high and then the fee kept going up and up and up so I and I was advised by a lot of Engineers saying it's not worth it to fight it because it takes you so long to try and get to the point where you can definitively show something and but finally I said I I got to try and do something so I did do it and I did get most of my a very re rear part of my garage is affected by the by flood insurance but still now that's inching up and up and up and up so it's that's not going away and I have no idea what the if your house was in a flood plane what your rates would be this year if if you had really had to I mean you don't want to not have it uh I mean if you're not insured I guess you don't have to have the insurance but still if you if you are I guess if you're insured by mortgage companies they require you to mortgage companies require it and this was property insurance not flood insurance this was basic house and you know I don't know what the answers to either of those questions um well uh Charlotte's uh number eight mentioned useful actions and then number nine on the agenda talks about like ideas for this next year so maybe we can talk about action items and tasks projects put that on the on the agenda for next next I'm sorry I didn't action action items like very specific I'm sorry I very specific action items or tasks projects items on this issue this year yeah on insurance no I mean I not necessarily I was just connecting this conversation to the the agenda item after it because it seems like they are related in other words more action items on on this particular issue of of um flooding sure yeah and what we can do locally okay are we on that yet what's that are we on them yeah certainly I thought move on the number nine I had a couple of thoughts too um I uh my actually my husband forwarded this me he found this online about a day of service in I was complaining that we didn't have an MLK Day say Day of Service in Kate mayor at least not one that I knew about so my husband forwarded this to me about how they worked in Philadelphia they have a lot of things going on there but this was an invasive species attack um and I can I'll pass this around all so that was part of one of the days of service that Philadelphia does and I thought that might be kind of an interesting thing it's a long way away till the next one but something to keep in mind so a day of volunteer service yes a day of service that sponsored by environmental commission that's a good idea yeah thank you uh this past year we talked about a compost project right creating like a workshop Series in Rotary Park or some place we mentioned it several times and never got it off the ground maybe we could do that we could do that which one was it a compost project uhhuh and it's another it to consider a compost is this a list for things to be considered yeah we have a goals for 2024 I know we these they're General goals but uh these are specific type things that obviously relate better but certainly we talked about the what's the status of the landcape ordance has that been done and done now the the brochure that yeah I mean we so I need this city now that we're in a different year budgetary year I need the city to re-approve the cost of the brochure okay so I'll have to re I'll resend it to Merl who can resend it it to Aaron and then the order can be placed I was wondering and and don't laugh but I was wondering if um we could at least talk to the city about not using dyed Mulch on public properties I know you we can't really go after public properties for doing that there's a lot of black mulch that is dyed not naturally with sometimes materials that are potentially toxic and to use what Dy dyed mulch that's been dyed black I think it's a bit much to rec to get after property owners for that but maybe we could suggest that the city use natural mulch for its for public [Music] properties which is probably cheaper since we make it ourselves I have a a couple of issu ofwhere might might fit into you know action items for next year year uh one is we had discussed uh Power Equipment noise we might want to pursue that I know that that's a the people I've talked to in my neighborhood that's a that was a PO popular item to pursue uh a lot of people are quite annoyed by the uh Lea lowers and the lawnmowers and so on at least we could pursue take a look at something in the within the next say three four five years can we approach something with that so that's not going to happen overnight I know that the other issue that I would would like to look at is um there is a bit of urgency in Vines killing trees if you drive around this town it's very easy to see a tree that is dead that's covered by English ivy is there anything that we can actually do to save some of the trees that are in Jeopardy over the next year is there any I mean actual actually doing something about it um didn't we also always all didn't we already begin the project and I think the um um the public um Public Works Public Works is supposed to be going around and and and cutting you know cutting the vines and letting the ivy die uh before it gets to but they haven't done a whole lot maybe that can be the service day that's a good idea divining right yeah we just get out the olders ideas that we could do uh one you know put disseminating information just like door too you could say you have Ivy growing up your tree it will kill the tree just for this is for your FYI you know so things like that uh but we could pursue some uh action items uh along that line also I got copied on a u 76 page uh a study by the Army Corps of Engineers I I read it uh but the first 25 Pages if any of you get get this the first 25 pages are the meat and potatoes of it the rest of it is justification and documentation uh and I have I have some questions about that Visa V the uh living Shoreline initiative have has have any have this this study is an exhaustive study and it was made in 2016 and they found no reason why we shouldn't Shore up the 2200 ft along Delaware Avenue with a with what sounds like the end product being a living Shoreline isn't that one of the projects that's in the works that Gretchen's been reporting on that there plans to do Delaware Avenue in the next couple of years the Delaware Avenue the Army Corps project yeah that's that it's going it has to be done the the 8 in sewer line that feeds the Coast Guard base won't be there anymore after the next storm the road will collapse uh so the emergency measures that went into effect after Sandy were just that they were not meant to be a solution to the problem it just was a a Shore up the road and it's done a fairly good job in the study all of that would be removed and you would have dovetailing um uh rip wrap not just yeah not just left over junk from some other construction site it identifies the location where you would put the final product which is a sand product it's you get it along the canal it's from the spoils on the canal and then you plant um uh a living shore line it's a um uh spartina uh right product well that's my question I think Gretchen has already told that is in the works is it not yeah but where is that where I think next I think she said they were starting it next year am I am I wrong and then there were some meetings that took place that she wasn't privy too remember the last we talked about but I guess this study brought um put more emphasis on the fact that the sewer line is going to break which yeah it's going to break and then the Coast Guard base will shut down you won't be able to go to the bathroom there it has to be done it's too bad Gretchen's not here because I think she probably has more detail on that than anything County project but you said that's is that a it's a core of engineers project according to this study uh I encourage you to read the first 25 Pages it's it's actually 10 of those pages are pictures they have aerial photography and they tell you where you're going to get the the fill where will you dump the rip wrap and all it's quite specific but it gets into financing and from what I could read the Army Corps of Engineers would do the the heavy lifting on the financing but it looks like the City of Cape May would be on for I I from what I read 35% of the cost it would be a six-month project and nobody they don't come up with a number for what it would cost well that's how when was that report done it was written in 2016 yeah I think it's been updated since I'm just recall just from what Gretchen has has said in these meetings that it's much farther along than that and I don't know that I don't know if she mentioned the financing but it's imminent uhuh whether I don't know about the sewer line I don't think she got that specific but the project is in the it's literally in the works for next year I think how does it how does it differ from the the living Shoreline I don't recall it it is mentioning the sewer that this is about right mitigating the looming disaster with the sewer sewer sewer line I don't know if it is even related to The Living Shoreline project the sewer is not no but I think the one that regret and is working on what is the living Shoreline project the core of engineers project is that right in tandem though because why put in a living Shoreline if you then have to remove it to fix a sewer a sewage line all right so they should be obviously the sewer should be added on but but I'm just saying that all I my question is that the living Shoreline project is in the works and the sewer as far as I recall wasn't mentioned at all yeah this 2,200 ft stretch of Delaware Avenue would be part of the living shorel yes yes M yeah that that's the part that we know about the sewers new Randy what is I'm sorry what is the name of the study or who produced it let's see if I can come up with that the Delaware Avenue City of K May continuing authorities program section 14 emergency shoreline erosion protection of Public Works Cap May New Jersey did you get all that prep Randy can you email that to Mar yeah yeah can you do that it was produced by the Army Corp the core of engineers yeah in November of 2016 it is it would be very good if you could email that I can't imagine not the whole 76 Pages just the title I I was going to sit down and I began running this through my copy machine and my wife freaked out she all the D went out of the 76 page their color pictures in here no don't do that I'll uh I'll I'll forward it to yeah Gretchen had mentioned that they were working yeah yeah there is something in the there Randy you mentioned you had three items there then right you had talked about the the power equipment uh the power equipment the um the vines The Vines the trees that are in in danger of dying and this and then the shoreline stabilization or the shore living Shoreline and the shoreline stabilization two separate things but but I believe they they do dovetail they're both Army Corps of engineer I'm sure that that you know they overlap put it that way I'd like to you know I'd like to you know see where is that going uh you the the part that we know about I'm pretty sure is due to start either this year or next year by next year I don't know whether it's 24 now or 25 but that is going that's that's happening I don't recall anything about the sewer which is kind of interesting wouldn't our city engineer know I I'm sorry wouldn't the city engineer be aware of that here I hope so I mean let's check right yeah the the the the study is fascinating one of the they have they have five Solutions one is to do nothing it's least expensive uh and uh the rip wrap one is one and the uh a bulkhead is another I think it's the ri R I think I remember that because I love that word and I had never heard it before so get stuck in my head is this that's probably the solution make a suggestion Marl yeah let's go Marl can you contact Paul Dietrich he's our city manager now and see if he can come to our next meeting I mean he hasn't he was here for a little bit but let's just invite him and let him speak on whatever whatever he'd like to talk about as far as the relationship between the city by the way you were copied on that that's a good idea Paul I know Paul's on top of this project on Delaware Avenue I know he will be able to explain a lot more and I'm sure these that I know that Gretchen was hopefully going to be at the meetings that they were going to have I don't know if that ever took place or not right um but Paul is Paul is really nice guy let let him come let him just show up you know we can we can discuss things with about what the city has going on and how it relates to what we can do all one more question Randy um do you want to email me the document that you're talking about the Delaware document and I will forward it to all the members yeah all 76 Pages it's it's 7 well if it's a document on the internet right you don't have to print it out no Justin's doing that she's forwarding okay I know go ahead but uhhuh you have it on your computer you were you were copied actually you it was sent to you and I was copied okay you've been busy screen it's it's on your email it's being able to see it it's the whole idea on the electronic but we'll get it out there there must be an executive I can email that to all the members as part of um the minutes from the agenda wouldn't there be an updated report that's or an executive summary I'm sorry a summary rather than 76 Pages usually in those documents there's what they call an executive summary the first 25 Pages give you all the the the rest of it is documentation all right let's keep it at that yeah there is could we keep it at that I mean it's a link you can just you print it out no I'm not going to print it out I have have a problem reading off this so we want to send the first point of course I'm not going to it email all right I'll find it later um go ahead there yeah so I the idea of having the city manager come is is great if you we can make that happen going to try and do that for next um there have been some plans some solar plans being put together for the public Works building and there was a request for um representatives from the environmental commission to also be in the meetings to meet with the solar engineering company that's creating the plan so we need to put together a little subcommittee so that two or three of us can be involved with that I have no problem with that I mean I know we haven't heard we haven't heard anything back from them if we have we requested that um so the mayor told me that the initial uh proposed solar plan was provided and it was like insufficient basically and that he requested that the environmental commission also be present in with it moving forward we'll jog Paul's memory with he see your next meeting okay see where where we stand on that obviously hasn't happened because somebody else somebody would know about it I guess there were some solar panels proposed but the property wasn't really like maxed out like it's a great spot to have a lot of solar it's hidden it has lots of sunlight there's nothing really around it so it would make sense to really capture as much as possible absolutely um so that was the that's the goal so I don't know if anyone would want to work on that with me or by themselves but it's on the agenda right anybody else have anything Charlotte you have anything else no I thank you very much great great meeting can we continue to work on this on the light pollution issues as well I know there are still some some things we haven't covered and some um maybe some monitoring that has to be done I did pass the uh Park the other night that is incredibly well lit too well lit yes it's like daylight whoa we can ask Paul that question if we see him right okay anybody well there's a hopefully we'll have a all kinds of things on the list for next agendas meeting oh there's Paul right there when did you slip hello no you did not we would like to have you come next meeting if you would and just sit in and we could just ask your questions very you know give and take certainly can grab a mic sit next to you you can sit next to here if you want okay right here everyone this is Paul Dieter he's our new city manager and I've known Paul for a long time and Paul's very open his door is open have at it the question you had was about the uh hi Public Works about the Public Works they have they're going to be putting new uh solar panels out there at all is that something so we are looking at we had a a vendor do an evaluation over at the public works yard for solar so we are looking at um maximizing solar out at that facility um and I think gret I think the the answer the question was that we we wonder whether anybody from the environmental commission could sit in on that meeting if possible if if you have anything on that okay I mean cuz a lot of it may we depending on the payback we may look at whether we do it in advance of the Dale plant because obviously with the Dil plant we're going to be building another building so that one's going to be engineered to have solar on it whether or not we roll the whole Solar that facility in with that project and build it all so from a bonding standpoint it's kind of all part of that project or whether we go in advance so we're we're still evaluating what our costs um we don't have enough solar to really it to be where it's a power purchase agreement where you you know you get a vendor and and and you know you're kind of let them buy it and finance it uh because of the size and scale it' really be a project that would have to be uh built by the city and then looking at it uh the initial without without the D plant panels included in there it was looking like a seven-year payback uh for the city uh for to add panels uh on the other buildings there at Public Works is that good or bad I mean 7 year payback is mean how long do how long would they last how long did they last uh after 10 years the efficiency starts to degrade you know so you know 20 years you can say is a good expected life okay um I mean the the panels that are out at public works now I I forget the DAT but I think you know they're still providing good generation here City Hall they're still providing good generation I don't think they're at the 10e Mark for either of those facilities but um I mean 20 years is what you can kind of expect to get of them out of them um because then you also have to start changing inverters and different things at that point anyway is the um company that came up with the proposed plan for the uh D solar uh revising it and sending a new one or it was just brought to my attention that there was a solar plan that had didn't really like max out the availability it did Max I mean when we had it analyzed they max out the availability of this of all the buildings that could handle solar and weren't shaded you there's some some of the buildings that are you know we have the water tower out there and you know that Shades you know that you know it's not a tree where we can remove and and get more back you can't move that water tower out of the way of the buildings so for for everything that is was available to have um solar on it they evaluated it did okay can we see the proposal sure just out of curiosity yep cool all right so Merill can you send it R maybe I guess there's no need for us to attend the the next meeting well there we had discussed a little bit about uh what's going on on Delaware Avenue any anything new on what's going on on Delaware Avenue the last update I had was they they had there were like a 75 80% plans were done I think they were trying to get those all done and I think they were looking at for a fall project is the last time I just and did that include what was your that include sewer did that include sewer out there do you know Paul no that this was just for on delw Avenue this was just for the revetment the shoreline the shoreline well there was an issue about somebody had they brought up that possibly that that the that the sewer lines were not quite up to Snuff and that maybe this was this was a army Corp project sponsored through the county um that was just a shoreline protection project it had nothing to do with any okay uh road work or um that I know the county might do some there's some drainage repair okay on you so there's some drainage infrastructure that has some old corrugated metal uh drainage pipe on Delaware Avenue um that they were looking at possibly repairing but I I don't know of any issues about the sewer main on Delaware I'd have to talk to uh Rob Kaminsky over at water sewer to see if but do you think maybe in maybe within a year something might be started on that do you think I think this fall okay I think I think it my understanding was that the Army Corps was going to put this project out for this fall I believe is that the the the 2,200 foot thing on Delaware Avenue that you're talking about the revetment yeah it's it's yeah it's Stone rip WRA they're going to you know repair and not really raising any storm elevation it's just really reinforcing it to provide storm protection uhhuh and reinforce you from erosion and wave action in the the 2016 study that I that I got copied on they they were going to plant uh it was going to be a living Shoreline that 2,000 ft of that uh I don't believe it's going to be living I believe it's going to be armored you know rip WS R and stuff I believe at least I believe what I looked at it's an Army Core project though it's an Army Core project sponsor through the county MH so what about the sewer then yeah so that's not the study that I read the sewer is an entirely separate issue right detached from the from the Delaware Avenue the sewer is still there it's an 8 in sewer line that goes to the Coast Guard base and so far it's held up but the feeling is it's going to it's in je it's in danger yeah if is it storm sewer or is it sanitary sewer yeah I don't know I don't know if to this would protect that sanitary correct right but I don't I think that's part of but I don't think it's being replaced I'm pulling up the plans right now so I'm just kind of just verifying I'm not sure that it needs to be replaced I just don't I don't know they didn't they were going to protect it so it doesn't break anybody else have any questions of Paul while we're here what what were we talking about uh the Vine maybe yeah the vines The Vines ask ask them go ahead we have a national Vine day National Vine day ConEd about uh Ivy climbing up uh trees and we had talked to Public Works about um uh eventually you start at my house okay it's a nasty Place yeah no I mean um on you talking about on City Properties or you talking mining yeah well Public Works we had talked about doing the the the city the public trees just you know lopping off the vines at the base letting the IV dry uh die and then and then removing it and as far as we can tell only a couple of trees have been done a few I shouldn't say a couple just a few and we were wondering where that is well if you send me if you get somebody send me an email of where you think the locations are that still are having issu you have a l Randy has a fabulous list yeah it's getting old I I you know uh I'll I'll bring in you know a couple addresses to the next meeting well we can email it just just just email them to me and I'll I'll forward them over to Public Works and see you know if they're if they're City trees I can definitely you that's good winter work for send a guy out and like you said this is the time to do it right okay great how easy was that I know I thought after you read that list I thought of a few I saw a few more but I can't remember now where they were perfect start at the that the uh all right recycling center that's also a good project to send home with school children go home and look at your trees some trees yeah go go through that because there's a whole curriculum on hugging trees and say really talking to him yeah oh anybody else have anything anybody else have anything for the meeting no I I just was looking at the plans for the Delaware Avenue it looks like it's all rip rat the entire length not a it's not a living it's a shame the other other the other plan would have created two acres of new wet land so at any rate there it is I I can only guess is um because I was involved with a living Shoreline that constructed up in Upper Township in straths Mir um the wave action is is very harsh on on a living Shoreline and very hard to construct and you know when they built I think it was was it rainbow island or one of the you know when they built the Route 52 Causeway going oan City from Summers point they did a lot of living Shoreline and they've had to go back year after year to try to rehabilitate and and the wave action is very harsh on a living Shor line and I my own project that I built in Strathmere just a small area and we had a long fetch so the waves would just roll up on it and all the initial Biol logs and and mass was totally away but what the good thing was after about three years some of the grasses that we planted in that were Sub sub aquous I hate saying that word um actually grew and and and you know after years started to fill in and you know so I look at it as a as a long-term success but it still didn't do what a true living Shoreline did with you planning of the Biol logs and stuff like that so it just you know and I and I can only assume that that's what happened is you know the Army Corps looked at the wave action that would get there you know it's a it's a big large open w body of water sitting out in front of it and all those waves that would be coming in it was probably they they would had to have gone out too far to put out water you know wave brakes to make a living Shoreline viable in that short space there's a b channel to deal with there too it's it's sorry I have a question um Gretchen and the Nature Center uses the area and is sheel is she included in they they've they they're making accommodations to have that little boat area maintained for Gretchen good they thought about her or they didn't forget about her let's put it that way but she I remember her saying that she was part of the discussion even though they're just renting the area yes okay I just have from the the things I copied from Pat Sutton there's some B uh copies of books here if anybody wants to see them Doug Talam is a a favorite of hers Paul can't hide anymore so Paul's our new manager so he's very approachable so thanks Paul for Stu and anytime that you guys if there's a topic or something like that please feel you if I don't stop by please if you need me at a meeting just let me know I'll try to stop by we always have questions move okie dokie thanks everybody mic's off mik's off please thanks Paul I appreciate oh yeah okay