e e [Music] meeting has been provided please rise microphone rise for the microphone on on your microphones please microphone on thank you I to the flag of the United States of America to The Republic it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all play ball Carol would you do the rooll please yes um just give me a minute uh Jay here Barbara here George a here uh carick here George W present Jim here Frank here Shane here got it full attendance and let the minut show that uh uh Ryman is also present okay coming up on the 20th of this month at 5 o'clock the city council will vote on the new shatri ordinance if you can make it for that meeting it's going to be one of the first things on the on the agenda uh it's not required to be here but uh we do add if you can make it it's just show support and answer any questions city council may have it'd be appreciated so the 20th uh on uh that's um what a wednes on a Tuesday five o'clock city council meeting start okay um I want to introduce our new secretary ketta Anderson and over here Connie and what's our what's our phone number our phone number 609 884 953 Z 99 is it 99 9 95 what 31 well that's my direct line yes that's the number you can use that's what you should call 9531 okay the only other thing we've got coming up here in the near future is Arbor Day Foundation or Arbor Day celebration you're going to check conetta if you check with the school the elementary school and find out if they're going to do anything if they would like a tree we need a little bit of advanced notice so we can maybe come up with a tree for them George okay okay how is the have you been able to get a hold of Matt Notch no no I haven't and I just called is he ducking us or what is he what is he ducking us or what I'm not I don't think so but uh he said he would call me back I haven't heard back from him but I I did get we got some trees I'd like to get in those trees he has in storage i' like in the ground yeah I sent him all those planting I did send him all the planting locations for those trees okay so I'm sure as soon as he can get them in you know and I'd like to get some more in in March I think we should do an early spring planting because if we wait until the end of April or May by June we we're in a drought most years inventory there's no inventory yeah right so I did get inou I'd like to replace those couple of trees that blew over on across from the southern mansion on Washington Street they were Hawthorne Trees I think they're on they're on your list Geor yeah yeah and was what Maryland Avenue also mhm yeah and I've got we've got that one Memorial Tree on gurny street right yeah it's been dead for more than six or seven months now I like to get that yeah that was a hack care it should have made it in that location but the what it should have made it in that location with that being the species but unfortunately it's it's always a it it flourished it sort of flourished for about a year year and a half two years and then it's it's just gave up yeah so all right okay all right Pat and Avenue are you sure that those trees on the Mount Vernon side are bradford pears yes I just checked them out I just checked them again the other day and uh can you check and make sure I'm not going to write a letter to the people yeah uh uh because there's there's adequate room beside that ornamental fence between the fence and the curbing on Patterson Avenue to put in two larger trees M I'm not so concerned about where the trees are located that we didn't specify we didn't specify where the trees if those the only those are tupo sweet gum trees that's fine where he has right but I just I don't want to be writing a letter yeah to them and you know if they're if they're not if they are Bradford peir I write a letter and say Brad PA I suggest you either take give those trees to somebody else or and then plant some more substantial trees on Mount ver well that's that's the thing I wanted to bring up because if you recall they agreed upon we gave them permission to remove the the existing uh maple trees that were there cuz they had been topped and two multi-trunk maple trees that were turned up and really uh compromised by the by the contractors but the agreement was that they would replace them with either Tupelo and I suggested um Sweet Bay mag Magnolia as another alternative cuz they would both you know do okay in that location the pair would probably do okay the problem with the pair is they've now become an invasive species throughout New Jersey and and other states um they were touted as being you know absolutely the opposite of that and now what's happened is they the cultivars I guess have cross-pollinated or whatever but you're seeing Groves of them along the the things and we don't use them anymore and uh that's why we suggested we don't PL any which is why we suggested trees for seven six or seven years and then they become a bit of a hazard yeah yeah so so so was the issue that they were going to replace the the two maple trees with Bradford pairs no they were going to replace them the trees with either two Tupelo trees or sweet gum trees so where did the Bradford peirs come in to they they side yard on M Vernon Avenue which is fine because because that's a blank side of the house it's not the front it just provides some screening from Mount Vernon Avenue but it's not the type of tree that we that agreed upon so I don't know when we wanted to replace so yeah yeah all right well confirm that they're if they're Bradford pair confirm give me the name the address or I can get it from Karen or the uh uh the tax office okay and uh and then we can ask them to to put in the trees they've agreed to right uh when we gave permit to take the trees down the other trees down all right that's all I have anybody else have anything else we have some visitors here today sir you want to come up and introduce yourself press that little button on the microphone yeah turn it turn press the button to Green there you go hi Jim thanks again yeah no problem uh my name's Jack Cy I live at 142 roseman's Lane uh recent full-time resident here and enjoying every moment of May um I'm representing the spicers creek homeowners association I submitted an application a cover letter and a diagram uh to the city for consideration and the the request of the HOA is to replace not remove but replace trees uh we don't really think that the application for the the red maple is appropr in that location given that they tend to grow correct me if I'm wrong those who know better than I do that they tend to grow outward and we've already seen some sidewalk lift uh so the the also in addition what really drove this was an event that occurred a homeowner removed a tree and we as an HOA Association excuse me I should say I'm the vice president not the president of the HOA uh uh took it upon ourselves to reach out to the city make sure we understood the ordinance and the code reached out to the homeowner advised them that this is not something that's acceptable to the city or the HOA and as a result of that investigation we started to look around the property and look at the trees that were planted by the the original developer and approved by the city these red Maples and as you might have spoken earlier through the construction phase of spicers Creek those trees got topped beat up I I don't know what your feeling of those they pretty some better than others think a high wind area they took quite yeah so we we took a look at the list of approved trees and this is an amateur uh suggestion from us to replace those red Maples with the American hornbeam which is not only Street friendly but apparently utility friendly meaning they don't grow excessively large and it's my understanding the root system doesn't grow out as much as it does do down but again this is an amateur speaking so the request from the HOA is to uh consider have the board here consider waving the fee of $75 per tree because I believe there's at a minimum 18 18 and possibly 20 trees that we' would like to replace well there's 28 there's there's other but the uh the trees in question are the ones being counting the trees that were just on the curb line just on the Cur Cur line they were 28 and then there was a 29th tree that was over near the pool area in the back are you sure about that yeah I have to double check myself but the matter Still Remains that we're interested in wait wait wait wait let me stand I thought it was 18 existing and 20 I'm sorry 18 right I'm saying 20 18 and 22 apparently were removed okay so we want to replace the two that were and you had that one um same planting same uh species tree that's near the pool area yeah that's not a that's not stay that would stay that would stay yeah or maybe we'd consider removing trees that we removed were they Street trees or lawn trees or where were they located they were located between the curb and the sidewalk City Tre but this is a private Community George so it's all considered private property yeah it's a even though that would that would be a city street tree this is a private Community okay the homeowners association technically the streets are public so I mean there there's Public Access for anyone uh including to the water uh according to the ho deed uh but you know that's inter other other people can take a position on that the yes they are they are city city trees okay they are City trees okay well that would seem to be the The Voice uh that we would need to hear from for the determining Factor on that if they deemed to be so you're asking basically to wave the $75 a tree well never mind that now we're looking at a different scenario of no longer being trees on private property these are now City trees so do we need further assessment on the trees um maner would be the only contractor now I don't know if you're aware of that but sitting right here ronman he contractor who maintains snowy I mean that that we get a heavy snowfall right who maintains the uh the streets in that it's my understanding the city does in city so basically these are should be City trees well we had this discussion just between the two of us and we you know we're saying with the scenario that it was private property but now we're learning different so how much does that change understanding Public Works uh City came just recently took that whole development over streets we maintain it now we just recently took that over so how does that change anything here with our decision and I think it does it doesn't other the fact that manir would be the only one who could now address those trees well my issue is this we're talking about 20 trees and out of what is it eight of us that don't that don't know this application very well I think that it's something that should be in front of all of us to see something like this some kind of diagram um so that way everybody's informed that way we get an informed vote from the entire totally understand totally like to see George take a look at it oh yeah I'll take a look at sure the other commissioners the first I've heard of it but are the are the trees marked do we know which trees are involved um I I indirectly not explicitly noted the trees in question but in the map that I submitted I outlined and in my description I outlined the location of the trees in my cover letter with the application and pretty much you're addressing all the curb trees the curb trees correct CU there are trees that are on private property that are similar trees that we're not addressing as the HOA okay one more thing I should add is that these trees um though healthy are not wellestablished trees they're on average probably 12 to maybe 15 feet tall with a roughly a 6 in diameter trunk the the trees on private private or smaller these are the trees that they're looking to replace the street trees the street Tre the street trees did the did the ho 12 to 15 ft and 6 in diameter trunk that's about average size when were those put in do you have any idea how long I don't know the original developer Scarboro properties okay and I think it was done in probably around the time of the formation of the the development okay yeah that was I don't have the answer that was years and years and years that was Pharaoh's Marina in there right so the ho we the HOA took responsibility of her property about three years ago okay okay I'd like I'd like to see suest Jay that we have the the board uh take a look at it and and make a decision in the next meeting and address this at the next meeting because that is something that we that's okay with you sir no problem yeah but we to look at it we've got to go in there and be able to look at the number of trees involved so we need some sort of a diagram could you give us a sort of of a diagram that we can reproduce so we can certainly in in fact it's it's I have it here it's not explicit but it's it outlines where rough diagram that we can get copies of and give them the members that we can go so we know what we're looking at and also the root system of the trees the tree will send down Roots only so deep until it strikes water now you got a the water table is pretty high right there so they'll only go down till it hits water then they spread out okay okay this is why in East Cape May which was built on meow Muk you know you get some many we get so many tree sidewalk conflicts because the trees will spread out to the drip area of the tree looking for looking for water and this is why there's so many Knuckles of trees in lawns that get hit by lawnmowers and tripped over by grandchildren and stuff like this and people want to take the trees down when the tree is doing what it has to do right to get water and it's the same thing here it just I I I'm trying didn't think there was that many trees I haven't been back there that often but I didn't think there was that many trees in that area so if you get us a copy of that where the trees are so the members can take a look at it and we can um and we can I'm sorry I have Mr I have your original application and your diagram that you sent to me I'll make sure that the rest okay thank you that's it thank you thank you thank all right great thank you all right thank you then we have to we have to decide though between this and that whether they charge $75 for a trade since they came in now to do this and we're changing the ordinance on the 20th I think we should be able to make the decision based on the old ordinance grandfathered in basically right pardon he'd be grandfathered in under the ordinance the way it reads now right okay yes you know just to conclude my our position at the HOA is we certainly want to number one a proper relationship with the city as far as code is concerned you know there's a we love our development there there's a lot of beautiful landscaping there it's white hot though without trees in there exactly and we want to get those nice established trees going and kind of replace some of the beat up ones and replace the ones that removed but we just feel it's a little onerous that we're replacing a tree not removing a tree and having to pay $75 a tree so I'll leave you with that all right thank you all right ni good okay we have other guests here today also it takes another 30 days for that ordinance to become in effect so I don't think it will affect them anyway agreed yeah the What It Takes another 30 days anyway what it won't be effective anyway because it will take 30 days for that ordinance press the button on that there you go you're on the A and you are Linda Cunningham and Joe Cunningham we live at 1021 Ohio Avenue in Cap May permanent residents um we're here today because we have a Siberian elm planted on the street LA I think that's how you refer to it um it we purchased the house in 1998 the tree was there it's very large it's close to 6t in diameter the trunk is um we're concerned about the condition of the tree and we're concerned that it's going to fail this is a tree on your private property correct no Street when I say street lawn that piece it's called the street line between the sidewalk and the curb that's City that's the city tree right right so um for that we've been we've petitioned before or yeah to have the tree removed because we feel like it's a hazard um now the last thing we did was we had a Consulting arborist evaluate the tree for us and in his report he said the the elm is alive but shows pervasive and serious defects and growth anomalies and and is weight biased heavily towards the house the main trunk is bifurcated by a weak longitud longitudinal seam which I call a fissure that extends 7 feet down from an obviously Hollow cavity on the East face of the tree the cavity and seam extend down the trunk on the side facing the sidewalk to a profoundly compromised and Mis shapen root flare um there's large structural roots are seen and these are damaged deformed and encircling or girdling the other portions of the root system he also noted that there seem to be no roots at all on the side of the Tree closest to the Street um in his professional opinion the elm is defective and likely to fail by a linear trunk breakage due to the defective trunk and or uprooting due to the defective root system when the tree does fail the elm is extremely likely to contact the pedestrian walkway um causing damage to electrical wires private property um there is no reasonable mitigation that can adequately address the hazard that this tree presents and he says since it is such a hazard it should be removed immediately I would also like to mention that this was done by lman Consulting Foresters so in addition his credentials are he is a New Jersey license tree expert a board certified Master arborus with the international Society of abora culture a registered Consulting arborist with the American Society of Consulting arborist a certified Forester with the Society of American Foresters and the New Jersey D approved consultant Forester with 30 years of professional practice so I had to look up what's the difference between an arborist and a Consulting arborist and um Consulting arborist can diagnose tree problems appear as expert Witnesses in litigation conduct forensic investigations and provide tree risk assessments so that kind of gives you an idea or a picture of his credentials he also provided us with pictures um if I could pass these around yes and and the address on this tree is it's 1021 Ohio avenue 1021 yes we looked at that tree yes yes we did you and I did yeah yeah this is Carol's District yeah and it looked well I mean I'm just a volunteer yeah but I mean to my liking it looked okay that's why it was denied I can speak a little bit on that tree sounds like a Mickey Riggins J Ron yeah Mr man's been out there something we've taken the dead out of that tree probably three or four times now and the tree is actually on the decline uh and it's growing a lot of Sucker growth out the trunk system which means that there's it's showing a lot of suckers out the there's interior damage to the tree uh if I had a recommendation I would also recommend removing the tree it's not very a very stable tree and we're not against putting in another tree we we put it in you know a a tree that was appropriate for that space I guess this gentleman I had said that that was not the right kind of tree for that space we're not against trees like trees this is Elm right the does it Leaf out does it have a full crown of leaf looks like an it's sorry didn't he Elm yeah a Siberian Siberian oh yeah out girled yeah well we have a uh that's pretty well girdled at the bottom to the The Roots WRA have you did any sidewalk work then yes well we did a few years after we approached this the house back in 1998 and I think that was lasted two years before it cracked again this well yes but this is the current sidewalk the gap between the two edges is now an inch or more and the one piece of sidewalk is completely lifted above the other piece from the heaving of the roots right right right you know when I look at there's more well this is okay there's more decay in the tree like in the first page three of seven you'll see where they did take off a good siiz Limb and just today I went out and I took a screwdriver and I could see it was decayed and I pushed it in went in 24 in that's my screwdriver was only that long but you know my concern I mean the tree can be leafing out but it doesn't we're giving well Mr lman is giving a picture of what's Happening inside the tree well there's nothing there's nothing going on inside that tree at that inside the tree it can have a perfectly hollow tree and the tree is still viable all the everything happens on a tree within the first inch of the the bark all the water goes up all the starches and sugars come down inside of the tree is completely dead the only thing it might affect it if it's a hollow tree is it loses about 30% of its strength well my because of the hollow um this is in my district or in your District right and we looked at the tree and to us it to to Carol and I it looked like a perfectly you know healthy tree but uh I'll inter a a motions for further discussion on a possible tree removal if we take the tree down when I say we the city because it's a city tree would you be willing to put another Tree in oh absolutely absolutely okay I'm sure there are many things be very suitable a a a Dawn Redwood in 200 Years it'll be this as big as that tree when you say dwn Redwood you no no I'm I was just kidding some suitable I'm a big I don't know if it's appropriate but I'm a big fan of the not not a Bradford pair no no I know about bradford pears Ron you went out you you you did see this tree personally yes I've like I said I've worked on it several times and taken a lot of debt out of it and it is on the decline it's I've been probably working on that tree for 30 years uh over say this to be taking money out of your uh the only thing I don't have a concern with with uh with that but I think we did what kind of tree what kind of tree would be suitable for that area I is there I don't know if there's overhead wires I don't think there is why no so probably maybe a Lyon believe they're on the other side they're on the other side a what a little leaf Lyon would be okay they're they're slow growing anyway you know a little leaf linden tree I can't hear you Lyon L Lyon Lon why you make a motion that's one just that's just one possibility of what Ron has to say I'd like to make a a red cedar hold I have a motion on the floor to remove the tree based on the evidence that we've heard today do I have a second I'll second second by Jim Jim and Barbara Shane has something to say with the condition of being replaced pardon with the condition it being replaced with a suitable tree absolutely no problem with that reason and of course the tree would have you you're cognizant of where your sewer lines and where your water lines come in well we'll make and where your gas line comes in right yeah well so you kind of replace it shouldn't be the same Hole uh as the other tree we'll we uh your this a street tree dig down to buck as many roots out as possible but you know PR tree go has to go to the left or right of that there's no problem since it is a street tree the cunninghams don't plant it doesn't the city plant the we provide that cunninghams can plant oh in this case the cunninghams can planted tree if they want you can at you know whatever you want on the street lawn and that was a provision is that becomes city property okay we're responsible for maintaining that tree and responsible for if it happens eventually removal okay won't the only issue is Jay we got into this once before that someone took down a tree and what they put there was a little shrub I'm not saying you you know in particular that's sort of the reason why we maintain jurisdiction over what what should go there otherwise we end up with I mean we can get like a little a rose bush somebody can put in I mean just being a little you know playing The Devil's Advocate so I think we should I wouldn't be objective to the city providing another tree there okay well motion on the floor and what are the otheris that the adequate a uh suitable replacement tree be planted okay at your expense we'll it'll be City expense to remove the tree we have to take a vote on that Jay we have to take a vote on that I said so I'll call the motion all those in favor I any the opposed any extensions all right okay okay thank you very much you're welcome Mr Cunningham what was your first name Joseph Joseph thank you St Joseph St Joseph St Joseph's my sa thank you good luck all right Carol want to bring up sidewalks uh yes um this is like a sidebar I guess to all of this I'm just concerned about the repair of the sidewalks in Kate May without removing a billion trees there are so many sidewalk issues in the city and we're entering the tourist time of the year there's tours um there's people walking up and down I've seen people walk and now we have people just putting cones out to cover up the problem and that looks horrible so I I don't know what the answer is but I think the sidewalks need to be repaired whether it's through 5050 or we notify the the house owners that here you repair this sidewalk in two months or three months or you're fined or whatever um it's just gotten out of hand so I I don't know what the answer is and I'm open for discussion several several years ago the public the Public Works manager wrote letters to uh based on a survey done by Public Works they wrote a letter to all the homeowners on sidewalks now some were addressed with the 5050 program most were just broken sidewalks during construction and various other types of things and what's going to happen is we're going to have a a lot of applications here to remove Street trees because if if it's if the tree is humping the sidewalk that much that they're putting and you know doing that it's signed that the tree is impacting the sidewalk significantly and you're going to have applications here and you know it's going to you know the more enforcement we do it's going to bring more work here and it's going to lead to replacement of trees like you just saw okay I I understand that but I think there must be a way to replace these sidewalks without removing the tree at least C we've been doing that all along yeah it's just it's going to be a continual problem I mean the homeowner is going to say because the curb replacement and repair of the curb and sidewalk is the responsibility of a property owner the property owner is going to say in in 75% of chance cases it's the tree that it's causing it it's not just a broken sidewalk that just happened to have be in disrepair not saying that those C sidewalks aren't out there but they are but most of the ones that people are putting cones out are ones that are impacted by trees Street trees well if and and so I mean if if if shade tree commission is going to say hey City get on a an enforcement of those sidewalks we can but what's going to happen is 90% of those people are going to come here to ask this the street tree to be removed well you're going to have to make an evaluation of that street tree and you know I think I think you're going to find a lot of them are going to be going to have to be replaced we we have a program with the 50/50 program now that enables That Sidewalk to be repaired you know there's also the ability to Bow the uh the sidewalk out a bit to uh alleviate a problem with the tree roots some Tre yeah some streets have some but if you got a property where they have if you have properties that have fencing and Landscaping right out you know it every street is different so obviously Street like Ohio's got less impacts than some of the streets in town oh the the older the older sections yeah so can I ask as of now there's no random assessment for safety conditions of sidewalks which can be then imposed upon the homeowner for some type of action to corate correct that tripping Hazard or whatever it might be and then with that being said if their hand is for for to make the repair then give the opportunity to the homeowner that if it is a city tree now they can apply to the 50/50 program but regardless how they go about it whether or not they apply for the 50/50 or not it is their responsibility to correct that tripping Hazard on that sidewalk I'm not going to say you know listen every city is different but where I had come from which was New York City that's how it was performed in a city of that magnitude so they would do random assessments of your sidewalk if you had a tripping Hazard you be flagged for that you would given so much time to correct it we're not we're not we're not being as active because of the activeness of the shade tree Commission because it it goes a lot of that sidewalk condition goes hand in hand I didn't say but the majority okay of the sidewalk issues is you still you force the hand homeowner to have to address it they can then apply for the 50/50 program if it is the tree roots that are causing it m um but as of now I understand the only assessment of sidewalks is in the immediate area of a neighborhood where a trip and fall had happened and a lawsuit was brought forward is that correct that's what I or or if we have a resident complaint okay so um can we widen that to you know a random once five years once every 10 years of of some type the sidewalk we can look at that but I just caution what you ask for yeah here at the shade tree Commission I'm happy to to go down that road but you're going to pick up business and we're going to be replacing trees I think the question be how pervasive is this I know we the one the cones that stick out they stick out a lot and it's an older community so the sidewalks are going to have a certain amount of disrepair I just wonder how pervasive is this I mean how much of a problem is it is there a way that we can find find that out well once we start going I mean if I start doing the investigation then we have to take action you know I can't just I hate to open up that can I that's what he's saying but but you've if if that's what the request is we can open up that and you're not the only we've had other we've had other requests Like That Sidewalk issu then again the homeowner just applies for the we replace the sidewalk I think I think we can all realize and we've all seen the the sidewalks and the trees that the majority of our sidewalk issues are tree related Street tree related City tree well then the the what's the remedy not have any Street trees no the the remedy is what what I think the first meeting I attended with you guys a couple months ago was I think we need to have a proactive plan and approach that when we have residents like these folks that just the momies that just came in here you know they came in six seven months you know previous ago and they asked about replacing it I think we need to be proactive in hey we have an a resident asking the hey the tree is causing damage it's in poor health in Decline let's let's be proactive and take out that tree and get a new tree growing and realizing that it's got to be a phased in you know cuz the trees are a resource for the city and you can't just go down every street today and replace them all because then we've lost all of our tree growth canopy but we should be looking at it as a proactive approach and phasing in some of these areas and if somebody comes in look down the street hey you know maybe this is the time to get a new tree growing in the spot where it's it's causing a problem and take advantage of that and then maybe be more selective as you go out so that you know this year this section of Ohio we replace that one tree and maybe we look at H maybe we you know try to scatter that out or we could be proactive and look down the street maybe plant a couple trees in an area that are down from a tree that is starting to decline plant some additional Street trees to be proactive in getting some younger trees started today so that in 5 years if we have to take a tree down maybe we already have a tree growing in that area that's going to help offset that and you and then you plant a new tree but I think but that's going to be what happens if if we start getting proactive on looking at sidewalk repairs and and putting a if I send a notice to you to you know to repair your sidewalk first you're going to say is hey hey the city's tree caused this repair I shouldn't have to do it so that's going to be the response to code enforcement code enforcement is going to say well make an application down the shade tree and then you know and then it's just going to come you know I just no problem working on it you know we've got you know we can do it it's I just want everyone here to be prepared because you're going to have to to be taking a look at these trees and and and my suggestion is I mean I think you can hear from my tenor what I'm talking about I'm going to be proactive in replacing trees in a planned approach I don't not saying I want to go go down the whole street and strip down trees but I think that we need to start looking at some of our tree stock is older it is some of the trees are in poor health and we should be start being proactive now you know God forbid a A duratio or a really strong wind comes down I mean that last wind storm we had back in January when we had those 50 m hour gusts I was fearful that Frank was going to be calling up and say you know we've got 40 trees some down and I think we had we didn't have that many trees come down during that storm but I I was fearful of that stor that was some heavy winds we had and you know if if we had probably had more rain we might have you know lost more trees but that's what's going to happen is you know some of these larger older trees that are in Decline um and and every time we you take up that sidewalk to repair that tree that contractor is going to take some root out of that because he's going to want to put some grade back on that sidewalk uh you also have the issue I can't just raise it at a certain slope because then now that I've replace it I have to meet 8A slopes so it's not just replacing the two panels that have heaved up technically I have to go back four or five panels each direction right to maintain slope one inch per one foot you know what I mean so it's it's not it's not just doing that because in order if I want to remove the heave then I'm going to have to really remove root and and you know what happens if I start cutting root out at that point then you know it's got no root on the curb side if I start cutting major root out at the top on the S you know the house side I've really messed up the Integrity of that which just further goes to if it's heaved up to the point where I'm putting cones out and you know I have you know 6 inches of rise and a sidewalk panel can I make a suggestion if you see an issue in your in your areas of where you're in charge of if you see a tree that's raising up the sidewalk take a picture of it bring it to the commissions and discuss let just discuss Tree by tree this tree is causing trouble at the sidewalk we're not going to get the homeowner support by like replacing it then we say okay we we'll we'll we'll bite the bullet we'll cut it cut down that one tree and not the whole line of the street and then uh and then pursue the sidewalk with players before we even well Shane we just went through a process and I think it was a pretty good process Carol and I were was talking about it when we started talking about changing the ordinances um put together a little group from from the commission sat down and thought um met outside um came up with some ideas presented the ideas then went to the city with these ideas and mean before we open up and let the dominoes start falling over let's see I like your idea about having the Commissioners inventory their own districts I and I think that's a because if I have code enforcement doing then it's a process I can't I have to continue that process but if if the Commissioners canvas their own District areas and and you know pick your five hotspot locations that you know you see the you know people have put those out there look at your own assessment you know is it caused by a tree and maybe we you know I think we start being that's I think that's part of being pro I think that's part of the shade tree being proactive and looking at it that we take that tree down and we hey we put two or three more trees in that area to start growing some trees back you know so that hey maybe we have to do some more trees two years down from there and and be proactive the only thing that you have to keep in mind with doing that is if we remove a tree a larger tree that is causing that problem you got to bite the bullet and also remove the stump out that area uh because grinding it we can only grind so far down the ground and the root systems go much deeper than that so you can never plan over that certain spot and like on Washington Street there's a few areas where we only had a 5 foot lawn area where we took a big tree out at and you could never plant anywhere near that area so you got to bite the bullet and replace the sidewalks in that area cuz when you pull the stumps up you're going to pull the sidewalks up too but but that but that's part of why little extra charge to but that goes why you know we're replacing the tree because it's heed the sidewalk so we already know we have to to take that sidewalk out in that area so I think it'll go hand inand but can we look at the scenario of saving the tree I mean why are we jumping immediately to removing the tree just because there's a tripping Hazard on the sidewalk it's possible that a repair to the sidewalk can be done without I think Jim if we take an inventory as as Shane recommend or suggested we then can go to that that phase just okay so then the next step would it's automatic treat death sentence you know advise that they need to yeah but most of the time it's going to be if it's a city tree it's a city tree so the city's going to have to you're going to have to evaluate I'm not saying every tree but I but if you get a tree that's like the one we just had here a while ago I think if we truly look at some of those trees I think there's going to be more in Decline than that are healthy because when you're looking at it you know none of our street trees have the area that it's required with under the under any guidance you know you know some of our strips are down to a foot and a half yes you know you would need three four feet strip plus some like just to have just to have a health problem we go out and now we start this proactive program we assess a sidewalk there's a tripping Hazard it is caused by a tree route um but the sidewalk itself can be repaired without doing damage or taking the tree down who then pays the cost of that sidewalk repair being that it came from from us well I think we could always go back to the home own because it's still the homeowners respons responsibility for curent sidewalk so then it's they able to apply then because it is we still 5050 and then it would be a shed cost the street the 50/50 sidewalk program has been in effect over 15 years it's saved many many Street trees and has resulted in Arches arked into the sidewalk humped up and over the roots and is saved and preserved many many of our street trees and has been fairly popular in most communities not all in most communities it's up to the homeowner 100% to maintain his sidewalk whether it's a city-owned tree causing the problem or not and the 5050 program was to provide some property or some relief to the homeowner uh and still maintain the tree it's one of the reasons why we're hoping up this year going to be 42 years Tree City USA we try to M the shate tree commission is going to come down on the side of the tree every time okay and uh uh I realize there has to be some compromises made in some cases and stuff and so I would suggest that we continue on with the 50/50 program evaluate these things on a caseby casee basis but the idea is to maintain that City tree these people that came in before we're going to take a tree down because the tree is compromised or damaged there old age it's it's been it's been uh it's been pruned several times in a few years the tree it puts in there we'll all be dead and gone before that tree that they put in there uh provides any of the shade any of the beauty but but but think back the tree that that tree when it was planted you were all young folks running around in grade school probably the what I didn't hear you when that tree was planted you were probably in grade school probably so we have to plant some trees now well so that so that it's I grandchildren have have a tree that's going to be that same size proactive approach you want to take it's like ryers taking down a tree or replacing a tree at whose suggestion is that going to be I mean I don't I don't think that's something that we as volunteers as you know that's the shade you're the shade tree commission you sign you want us to actually go out to neighborhoods our our Zone our district assess a tree with no expertise because we're not experts by any means no no I think I think the suggestion was that we had sidewalk ISS so so to look at look no you were saying to have a proactive approach of starting to replace some so at whose hand would that be well I think I think we can I think we can look at having assessments done getting a an updated tree inventory and and looking at tree assessments I mean but you do tree assessments every time you do tree assessments every day you that's part of what your job is you you know you've been trained when when called out but not to go out and and do an assessment is there any difference I would say so yeah I'd say that puts quite a bit of liability on us it depends on how we want to manage and and preserve this great resource we have in our city you what you know what I'm not looking I'm not looking to go out cutting trees before we get to see them no I think we should have more of an expert opinion Maybe maybe somebody as Ron maner or somebody at least who has you know an expertise in the field um just to go and you know I may look at a tree and to me it looks like an unhealthy tree and Ron may look at it and say no I mean you know with proper maintenance and pruning and this can be a very healthy tra yeah but you're you're looking at the health of a tree compared to what what this so subject was brought up was to lifting the sidewalks if the if the side one subject run no then it was also brought up about having a proactive approach of looking at trees that may be aging that may be you know and that proactive approach is looking at when people come to you like the Montgomery like the Montgomery came to you last year to say hey let's do that I think that's the proactive approach I want to take is let's take advantage of the people that are coming to us and saying hey there's you really let's look at that and and use that as an as an opportunity you know let's look at you know if you go in your neighborhood and you see you know somebody's got two cones out on their sidewalk maybe that's something you take that as an opportunity to bring that to the commission and say hey let's take a look at this tree maybe this is a candidate to be proactive on that case I'm not saying to go out there you know I think there's plenty of those opportunities that we don't have to go out there and just start walking up and down your streets and just oh let's let's try to get this one out let's try to get that's not what I'm saying I'm saying let's use opportunities that we have of people coming to us identifying you know residents that have identified their side walk that they know that there's a potential issue out there let's take those opportunities to look at uh you know getting in some new trees all right thank you Paul it's not an easy thing and it's not going to happen overnight oh definitely not yeah but we I think we need to start looking at it I think there's some there's some Merit at least in trying to get an idea of what potential liability exists out there with the tree stock that we have I mean I look at the flag that's up on the the stage there and if we keep losing trees we're not going to have that flag up there anymore yeah and I didn't bring this up to cut trees down and I I think the sidewalks need to be repaired and I agree we ought to have a committee and look at at the sidewalks and so forth but I think there's a there must be a way to do this where you can work around fix the sidewalk work around the tree and not go systematically like down Washington Street and say well we're going to cut this one down this year and this one down next year pretty soon you're going to have a bunch of little stubby trees uh going down a street that now is beautiful with trees and that's why we're Tree City because we're Cap May and we have trees and we don't want to cut them down and if somebody comes here and they say well my sidewalk has to be fixed and I want to cut the tree we're the shade tree we can deny that no you can't cut that down you just fix your sidewalk and we're going to go on from there I mean unless it's unless it's an unhealthy tree like the mcgomery came in and pay for an ARB yeah but this this couple here we didn't give them permission to take that tree down because it affected the sidewalk their permission was given because that is deteriorating their sidewalk wasn't really that no bad no honestly no it was more the sidewalk expert something Jay was talking that tree that tree was in decline not let say one thing this this being the sidewalk is the homeowner responsibility it's the homeowners homeowners insurance that covers anything that happens for that correct um I think I think potentially there could be some shared responsibility because it's if if if it's the city's tree that is causing repair and if and it goes into an issue of we send a violation then we deny cutting the tree and then they have to do something crazy to to try to repair the sidewalk and because we've denied removing of the tree if that then two years from now they put a new sidewalk through the 50-50 program The Roots heave That Sidewalk up again and they don't catch it and somebody trips in between that period of time we I I don't want to say but I think I that's why we have attorneys and they'll have to look at what what liability there is but typically the the city has tort liability for those kinds of things but when we have you know a potential issue and we don't address it because it's our city tree that's we have to look at it on a case-by Case basis and and and eval that's why we have an approved moving fiveyear plan to address hazardous trees to do a 5050 sidewalk program the state gives the city relieves the city of its responsibility because of trip hazards due to sidewalks that's why we have that plan in effect I mean this the insurance companies are still going to sue right okay uh but that that's why we have the we they helps limit our liability several years ago before we got these fiveyear plans cities were dissolving shade tree commissions because of liability and in order to prevent that the city say you do a five-year plan to address a lot of these things sidewalks older trees maintenance of the trees tree Hazard assessments all this stuff is in A Five-Year Plan you do that and you resolve the lot of responsibility because of this like I said you know to do repairs on sidewalks it's you know this sidewalk repair could damage the tree you're gonna have to put in as it gets of a more of a heaving problem you're GNA have to put in you know it's not just more more a sidewalk you may end up replacing the entire Frontage of the sidewalk just to get grade to work up and over the tree safely or as we've seen in several occasions the homeowner just takes it upon thems to uh do it do it take the roots out trees compromise the trees is going to die then and then we've and George you and I have seen that on numerous occasions and and that's what I consider a lost opportunity absolutely to plant trees and you know you know that that's giving this commission and the city false hope of having that tree lasts forever um and we just need to evaluate I just I just I just ask you guys to take a look at as we get those requests to to seize an opportunity to replace it I'm not saying to go down Washington Street and start replacing trees one this year the next one next year I'm not saying that but I think you need to we need to start replacing this resource because it is a resource and it's not you know it's only renewable if we plant new trees Paul can I ask and maybe Shane because Shane knew immediately the uh 121 slope you said that's what that's as far as I know that's what it is so the other method of course which we've seen is the avoiding the roots of the trees but that is solely up to the homeowner is there a certain amount of distance they can go within their own property to curve the sidewalk around it instead of humping over it well you can't I mean I mean depends on each street is different so you each Street has a different RightWay width so some streets have some RightWay width that you can go around it some some areas of town they have fences and improvements right up to the sidewalk Edge so there there is no ability to go around question Let Me Maybe rephrase it so it's practical there's no fence that they do have the room to do it but by city code or anything is there anything that would limit them to how far they can actually bring well technically we would have to get they would have to provide the city an easement to have the public cross on the their property okay I mean the public only has a right of you know that's what they call a right of way it's a right it's a public right away so the public technically in the state of New Jersey every property owner owns out to the center line of the street everywhere in the state of New Jersey that's where your actual ownership of the property however because there's a right of way whether it's a state County local we have over time you know kind of each proper owner has deeded that easement so it's really an easement the city has for that area and it's a public it's a public right of way to the homeowner and then the home technically we would have to get an easement if we were trying to go onto their property with the sidewalk technically we would have to get an easement survey it and have to get an easement from the property owner but in most cases that's going to be difficult to do it also depend how much you are talking about bowing that uh sidewalk out I mean I we we see just in my district we have two or three people have been very receptive to bowing the sidewalk I mean they're but aring the sidewalk yes yeah I mean there's I most people most residents are reasonable I mean they don't want to see that tree be destroyed you have a lady over here on Lafayette Street that refused to vote absolutely she had plenty of La space to that's why I said most Ron that was much my question what I'm trying to get out yeah all right but we can't force them to do it force them to I'll entertain a motion I got something I got something yes go ahead do you want to go first I just one thing I I want to confirm that all the Commissioners are going to assess the side walks in their District as far as and take photos thank you yeah as far as sidewalks that are upheaved and then come back with ones that are so we can address it come back with a come back with a list a list of ones that might be potential candidates for either being replaced or uh tree right yeah put a 60-day yeah I have no idea I I personally have a little bit of a problem with that it's one thing when the homeowner approaches us and then we do the assessment you know because they us but for us to be proactive in not any official City capacity we're not paid employees I think that to force that Upon A homeowner should really becoming from one of the city departments or somebody who's actually hired by the city but I think Jim we're just going to look at it but you understand what you're doing so you're telling you're coming here and you're going to put one of your neighbors in a position when now you reported that sidewalk and they might not have wanted to address it but now their hand is going to get forced to now have to address that which is going to be a money issue also it's going to cost them whether or not they get 5050 or not they're still on is to force someone to do something well but if we bring it to the board and then it then Ls up in the hands of the city manager and you know then what then where does it go from then why even bother why we I'd like to add a comment from all of this first of all this is a very very comp But to answer what you're saying truth be told we've had people that have come to us to report to us like branches coming out on the street and different things with like bicycles hitting branches so there's a lot of individuals who will come and Report things and so when you say you can't go around and look at your own District in your neighborhood just to see what else looks like something not to report to to you know for to the uh homeowner but just to bring it here to the commission to be looked at when you notice something that's very maybe serious I mean I have looked at trees that have been literally so old and grown that they are going into the street itself you I mean you couldn't even you couldn't even cut them out they're in the curb they're all going into the actual Asphalt in the street so there's things like that that should be brought to the attention to to this commission so that we can look at things like that because that believe me what we've talked about this afternoon is very complicated and very very um many many issues involved with all of that so that's my that's my thought that when we're in our district I want to se walking down the street if we see something we can bring it to the next meeting or report it or whatever it's not going affect the homeowner at all well I'd like to separate looking at the tree itself for removal is one thing because there's no cost to the homeowner but in this case of a sidewalk there is cost to the homeowner but Jim they so if we're going to bring that up as an issue and then decide where do we go with it from there okay so we all decide as a board that that sidewalk needs to be repaired what do we do from there I think I'm sorry got I think they do have a responsibility though they're I mean they're in the city they have this horrible side I'm not disagreeing with that at all so I think us addressing it is is a good thing I mean I again I'm going to refer to Washington Street cuz I walk up and down there there is a sidewalk there that I definitely needs to be addressed but I mean there's a gap like this I wouldn't want to walk down that street at night somebody's going to get herur I mean somebody's going to get her and there's a lot of issues like that by people putting cones up they're just advertising yeah the Paul I'm sorry I wasn't able to hear you clearly there so many other people speaking I'm not doing anything about right I don't think there's any problem with this commission making an assessment within each commission particular but where does it go from there George so now we bring it to the board here and we all decide yes this sidewalk needs to be repaired does it go then to code enforcement who does it go to well we have to first decide as a commission go to code enforcement wait wait wait wait wait we first to decide as a commission the reasons why the sidewalkers in disrepair that's true too so so once we look at the sidewalk we're looking at the tree we're not going making phone calls and and what and emails we're looking at the tree we're deciding amongst ourselves is this a an appropriate tree is this tree a healthy tree is this tree going into the street right you know is this tree is this tree causing any uh utility issues that's when we start to say okay right maybe we should hire someone to look at the tree before we start you know take moving the wheels even faster exactly you know I think I think if we were to bring this up amongst each other it's going to be a month or two process once we decide what we we should be done with the advice of the city manager and our city solicitor right greated okay so we're going to go off in our districts and start looking at sidewalks in your District right 60 days okay 60 days to complete pardon maybe have a 60-day window to complete it I don't think I don't thinking it you guys are in neighborhood as you see I I don't think this is a I don't think I city is saying hey go can somewhere else issue may bring it back don't think to be as proactive as 60 days from now let's have a report of every bad sidewalk think that I don't think that's yeah I don't want so okay so I don't want my Commissioners to be a police department looking at at broken sidewalks so we come up with this this list so where does it go to you or to code enforcement and what are they going to do with it I think got to take a look at it to see evu so let's let's get to the bottom line on this so now it gets to the point where we decided as a board that the sidewalk needs to be addressed it is caused by a curbed tree we're not going to take the tree down we are going to address the sidewalk the homeowner is then told from code enforcement do they have to act on that yeah they once once code enforcement is involved it's a legal process so okay it takes it out of once we get to that point it's out of our hands we voted we had opinion but at that point then it becomes code enforcement and we're no longer involved okay here here's another part that and I brought this up before we had said that when it comes to a street tree it should not just be that District commissioner to take a look at it it should be something looked at by all the Commissioners if it's a street tree homeowners we can kind of make certain calls on our own but um I think for Street trees in this case we're going to have to do the same thing there is one in my district the sidewalk is not concrete they have a slate sidewalk so what do we do in that case I mean but can they do can they still a couple of people that can deal with slate sidewalk but the tree is beautiful it's a beautiful elm tree it's there's nothing wrong with that that tree is only about 14 years old um but what happened was when they did construction when the when the street was redone they cut all the roots so when they cut all the street tree roots the tree is now sort of can't Deli it a little but those those other roots are overcompensating I guess to keep it grounded or whatever so the sidewalk is an issue and it's been an issue but they haven't done anything and it's slate a perfect example of that is the Dormer house which um is that slate there too and it's horrific yeah and all caused by curb trees it's all you know so is does do I bring this up now do you guys want to take a look at this or is okay next in the next two months let's say the uh when April or May meeting come up with a list of in your in your District of the worst of sidewalks that need repairing whether they're due to free or just broken sidewalks okay and indicate on your list which is which I was actually going to mention that the we're actually discussing today two separate issues right one is trees which the shade tree commission is responsible for and I hate to say this but the sidewalks really are part of the city I felt that for years I have property on Perry Street that the trucks come up there my curb has been knocked over it's horrific and I'm responsible for it and there's no trees well no trees no just all all the traffic on Perry Street right across from Uncle Bill's Restaurant it's like they the big great big trucks come to deliver all the restaurants they rip my whole entire sidewalk up well there's there's there's restaurants on either side of that so that's another issue in itself for the city of Kate May okay you guys ready to move on yes y all right okay so this is a plan of the new uh sidewalk they putting in on Franklin Street it's pretty much been approved by the city of Kate May and I wouldn't be doing my job as the aison to the council and you folks by not bringing it to your attention so uh just to kind of describe what's going on here from left to right uh we have these two trees in front of the Macedonia Baptist Church you see that they plan to to take them out okay they're going to be putting in some uh some uh street lights some lanterns along that both sides of the street I has some more designs if you want to take a look at it's on the Franklin Street side that's a Sycamore and a pier you know what they are yeah I pled that planted I knew I was this um there we go with the and then and before we start discussions continue moving right we got the tree in front of the Franklin Street Library school um they want to put a cutout as you can see a semicircular cutout uh in the front of that tree um I think you need to think about and the reason I'm I'm bringing this to your attention is so that if you have any recommendations for city council we should formalize it and send it to city council um I mean my personal opinion is I'd like to see the trees stay there uh my personal opinion is that I don't I hope that cut out for seeding is not going to uh you know cause any damage to the roots um what is I was just going to ask it's a sitting Nook for people to read books they can't sit anywhere else just there it's it's the main purpose of this is uh the whole streetscape uh trying to tie in this historic area together with the sidewalks but um according to our professionals that there's not much space in that area to keep the two trees on the left uh on a sidewalk well there's not there are they not going to have a tree line is that well according to the plans what I here I have and uh it was brought up it wasn't even brought up by me at the council meeting you can see where the tree exists mhm and then the new design the tree does not exist right so they're bringing they're not going to have a tree Laine they're bringing that sidewalk right to the curb and replace it with lanterns here's what I don't understand I just inquired about those lanterns cuz my home is on Windsor Avenue in the historic district and I don't maybe you don't even have the answer to this I was told there's gas lit lanterns down at the beginning of my block and then they stop my house is in the middle of the block so I asked why we can't have them continue throughout the block and they said they're not putting any new lanterns in the city I was just told that like six months ago and now they're going to put lanterns there the other thing is there's also two existing trees in front of that dwelling across the street yes you're I'm sorry that they're going to remove the uh the building next to the am church and put a parking lot in there and there's two trees you see where the x marks are I put in there those trees are going to come out because of the driveway and the crosswalk in that location I'm a little confused with this sh um so looking at this now this tree here which still looks like it's going to remain yes is which tree on here that one that one that's what I thought okay all all right I'm just trying to get my bearings Shane I'm sorry no go ahead are the street trees all this is Street there are Street trees except for the one in front of the library that's in oh my that's inward from the sidewalk there's only four Street trees on that street I think so in that block Franklin Street so what what is this propos are you're going to take that tree down in front of the library that one's staying no that one they're taking the two trees down on the left if you look at you look at your diagram two trees on the left here on the stre this di just these two are coming down right that one is the one we're looking at right there that's going to stay that's going to remain yeah oh I see okay okay okay and they're going to put a they're going to cut out a little area for seating next to the large tree in front in front of the school there's a couple more and I just don't want them I mean I I called uh I I sent our city manager a text message when I saw them putting in the sidewalk for that new school that making sure that they were going to cut those roots you know um to me my opinion is as a city council person and not as a shade tree liaison is I would like to see the tree stay but you know I'm just one of five and uh and I would like there not to be a cut out in front of that tree cuz I don't want any issues with that tree because that tree is so significant to the laf or to the uh Franklin Street School library project because that tree was put in there around the same time that school was built so to me you know as as I can see that everybody around here loves the trees as I think it's expressed to the public um if anything would hap would happen to that tree because we you know decided to to cut the roots in any way I would just be devastated with myself hey Shane can they put that little cutout in front of the library on the other side of the front door I I was I was going to ask that but I think that's where the sign is going to go but we would make that suggestion move it over yeah so I mean is that does the commission suggest that we make a recommendation to move that seating to the other side where it's open space right yep right and does the shade tree commission want to do you also support that these two trees on the left should stay yeah yeah can take a vote on that today well here's the here I have a couple questions if you don't mind so who designed this this came up by who uh this is um an architectural firm DDA uh and do they do they give enging design design Associates because like if we're basically we're talking almost like a blank slate to a point with this if you're going to recreate the entire block why wouldn't this be I'm just saying like this would be a perfect opportunity to put a wider Treon that what we have in other parts of the city I mean maybe we I don't know what the city right of way extends to uh in each of those private properties but it seems they they're eliminating the treeon altogether which I don't understand that idea and um one of those trees is a Bradford pair the smaller of the two trees I don't have a a great Affinity as you probably can tell for Bradford perir that tree is has been there long longer than the Sycamore next to it and uh that's about as significant of a tree as that's ever going to become the Sycamore was planted there I think that that's probably in about 13 years 12 to parking lot their col rera their Golden Rain trees which um you know they were doing well so they're just going to that's going to be demolished that structure yes that was where Center for Community Arts had their office for a time yes they're moving their office to the school the library right so the so when the city purchased that church they purchased that building too yes that was church yeah yeah that's a cc yes it's too bad they can't I guess that's not a historic structure George what I think you suggesting is why aren't there new plantings suggested right it's a it's a complete heartscape why and I guess the best answer to that would be Shane any reason that you know of why there's not new planting suggested I'm assuming the uh the lantern the lines for the lanterns the gas lights all right well you know we've got gas lights on other streets throughout the city where there's trees right in the same block I just feel like you know we're kind of you know that's an awful lot of Hardscape there for a whole block opport to have no trees whatsoever right you know there's I agree with you Shane though I think they should try to save that tree in front of the school you know my attitude is always if there's a will as a way we could we could figure this out you know well can cannot we prop make a motion today and then at the February 20th meeting which is from today you can see U we can bring that that up in front of council if that's how you want to do it I think it's great but I think I have somewhat of a consensus here that we want to save the trees yes and we don't want to hurt any any trees you know whether it's cutting out a seating area or not okay so that sounds good the meeting it's going to be at 5:00 I assume uh just make sure you check the website and I'm going to fight tooth and nail for it is this is this design on the website too it is not it's not okay I mean Shane would mean should should the commission make a formal recommendation or you just think we just go to do what you can do both go one way or the other change position yeah what to support CH position okay about the the train front for all that save is okay plan's not fin okay draft yeah well we're getting ahead of it and the other thing is we're we're also agreeing that there's a Miss missed opportunity to put more trees in abely yeah so it's really three things that what we're asking for yeah so it's up to you if you want to make a formal motion for those three things if not entertain a motion yes to support Chain's position on the tree in front of the Franklin Street school I just have a second to try to preserve the trees to move the seating onto the other side so it doesn't hurt the roots of this tree and to look for opportunities to put in more trees all this is all under the same motion yes all under the same motion okay that's so what what's the motion Jesus to try to preserve the trees what to preserve all the trees yes one two do not put the seating area in front of the tree in front of the Franklin Street school because it might ruin the destroy the roots disturb Roots area root area three look for opportunities for more Street trees on the other side I'll make a motion to support Shane suggestion do I have a second second I guess since everybody's making car we need car 6 second a motion we didn't have I have a motion on far anymore discussion I'll entertain the motion all those in favor signify saying I I any any nay okay any extensions all right great that's all I have thank you everybody you're going to get you're going to get from this gentleman here we can get them to us so we can go take a look you'll have yes and also you already know ahead of time Connie if you would please see Nancy get copies of the fiveyear plan and provide them to the grant writer okay I think I have it I'll entertain what I'll entertain a motion to adjourn I can make that motion second do I have a second second by George all those in favor I thank you for coming and thank everybody the whole the whole shooting match for showing upday apprciate don't forget don't forget the 20th 5:00 p.m. if you could make it okay sounds good