##VIDEO ID:exXGAjgJjDQ## e e e e e e e [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] good afternoon this is a hearing of the CH Conservation Commission being held on September 4th 2024 in accordance with the Massachusetts Wetland protection act and the town of chadam wetlands protection bylaw and regulations my name is Karen Laton and I serve as the chair today's hearing is being broadcast live on exfinity channel 18 and is being recorded on the on demand archives available on the town's website it's being conducted conducted in person by phone and by video conference the agenda instructions on how to attend and copies of documents for review are posted on the town's website to all participants whether attending by phone or online please remain muted unless you have been recognized by the chair when recognized please identify yourself for the record if you're attending by phone you can mute and unmute by using star 6 if you're online and you're not a commissioner please keep your camera turned off unless you have been recognized indicate that you wish to speak by using the raised hand feature so we have a record of Quorum I will now ask each commissioner to indicate their presence Vice chair Elise Gordon present yay Janet Williams present Cheryl missery is not here today Eric Hilbert present Paul Johnson is is not here today associate member Bob Delio present and I'm here we've established a quorum before I go on I'd like to First welcome we have a new assistant uh agent Katherine Ricks and I'd like to welcome her she's a wonderful addition and we're so happy to have her before we begin the agenda are there any announcements about any continuances for today Paul thank you Madame chair good afternoon Commissioners yes we have three continuances um a determination of applicability at 65 Squanto Drive will be continued to September 11th and two of the certificates of compliance at 104 cranberry Lane uh will be continued to September 11th thank you all right at this point Paul Whitman cons charm's conservation agent will now lead us through the agenda thank you madam chair first on the agenda is a requested order of conditions the address is 44 Nicholson Lane Michael frisoli map 7B parcel 41- s17 D number se10 3691 the project is proposed Shoreline stabilization and restoration plantings great thank you good afternoon yes um Jen Crawford Crawford Land Management is here on behalf of the applicant today hi Jen hi how you guys doing good how are you doing good um I reviewed the draft order of conditions and I only had two things that I wanted to ask you guys about sure um one of them is on page 11d number nine and I think that um Jim Sears the owner of 34 Nickerson also had written um asking about this um but that particular condition uh says that the project extends on a property located at 39 Nickerson we we did update that okay okay great um yeah because 44 Nickerson was the applicant 34 Nickerson was a co-applicant and that's where the access is coming from so okay great um the only other question or thing that I wanted to discuss with you was um on page 11f uh condition number nine talks about an annual survey of the coastal Beach area shall be conducted by a mass registered engineer and photo documentation shall be submitted I wanted to know um for something you know an installation that's really this small if it would be sufficient uh for us to use a surveyed Benchmark on the property like for instance the top of the revetment is at approximately elevation five um instead of having to incur the cost the owner having to incur the cost every year to have an engineer um or licensed surveyor come out I was hoping that maybe we could work with you since we have to submit annual monitoring reports for the vegetation portion anyway um work with you on a less formal way to um note any sort of changing um Beach elevations uh simply by using like we have what we call a zip level um and you can basically zero it out at any know elevation and then it is very very accurate um and and it can then kind of map changes in elevation and so we would be able to get you data very quickly without having to incur the additional costs every year for um an engineer surveyor to come back out um and and it didn't know if that would be something that the commission would be amendable to or not what was it that you said would be used to not the be Beach elevations so we have what we call a zip level it's um it's a field device that you can basically choose any area like a known Point like a um if a top of a deck is surveyed and you know the elevation of it you zero the device out at a known elevation and then it has like a long hose on it basically and then an end that has like a station point or a stick on it and you can take the elevation relative to your known elevation so you can determine whether things year after year have increased decreased or changed um it's it's more of a field way to survey something without an actual um without actual crazy survey equipment that a license surveyor would use so at this point we've modified it it says an annual survey of the coastal Beach elevation noting Beach elevation changes using a zip level and Y then we added uh annual surveys uh let's see it then a continuous photo docum documentation shall be submitted to illustrate the site conditions at the time of the survey uh annual surveys will be submitted along with the annual monitoring reports is that okay yep yeah that would that will totally work and it will literally save um you know save these guys thousands of a year and having you you'll get the same information but in in having a licensed surveyor have to come out and and to do that work so that will be awesome thank you so much for accommodating that Paul uh or Katherine um Paul I think you have your hand up actually yes I I I just wanted we do we do have Katherine Ricks uh as I'm very pleased to have her as our assistant Katherine uh specialized in castal resource and uh I think she could just chime in indicate that is an accurate way to uh proceed um so if we could just recognize her and she Catherine you're recognized hi this is Katherine Ricks uh yes I do agree that that would be a sufficient way instead of having to have a surveyor out there that would be giving us the same information wonderful thank you it wouldn't replace it wouldn't replace an asil for certificate of compliance it would just fill that annual monitoring requirement would be the intent right on our end yeah right that's that's what this condition refers to as the annual report yep okay perfect thank you so much for accommodating that I appreciate it oh no thank you and thank you Katherine all right then we are ready for an order okay uh I make a motion to uh close the hearing and approve the order of conditions for 44 Nickerson Lane second all right roll call Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I so that's approved thank you you very much okay Paul on to the next on to the next requested or of conditions the address is 109 Shane Drive Road excuse me Shane Drive Andrew pinkowitz is the applicant map 15g parcel 74- b28 a d number se10 3692 project two proposed porch additions second floor addition and mitigation all right uh do any Commissioners have anything to add to this order at this time okay that I assume you're here to hi that alerg Southeast representing the pinkle witz say we're fine with it oh well that's good and you read it thoroughly read it th good yeah we're making sure of that at this point uh and no Commissioners have anything to add okay then we are ready for a more motion all right I move that we close the hearing and approve the order of conditions for 109 Shane Drive second all right Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I so that's approved okay Paul we're on to the next uh next on the agenda is another order of conditions uh for 159 Seine Road Michael and Elizabeth Baldwin are the applicants map 11k parcel hc13 D number SC10 3696 demolition of an existing dwelling and construction of a new dwelling within land subject to Coastal storm Flowage all right uh do any Commissioners have anything to add or change in this one okay is there anybody here representing David Clark here can you hear me oh okay sorry D yes I can sorry I didn't see that you were on um yeah uh the only question I had were conditions E11 and E12 your typical conditions referring to a revetment uh this property already has a revetment and it's the existing house is a pre 78 house they're not applicable yep okay we will remove those um other than that I actually read the whole thing very good because that was going to be my next question we've had people say they've read it and didn't so um anybody else have any other questions no I think we're ready for a motion all right I move that we close the hearing and approve the order of conditions for 159 C Pine Road second okay Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I so that's approved excellent okay Paul we're moving right along we are uh next on the agenda is in order of conditions nine Pine Grove Road is the address Neil and Cheryl Sullivan are the applicants map 8B parcel 8 8- 867 the EP number se10 3695 the project is proposed work which consists of a deck expansion and Landscaping work which will occur in the buffer zone to a Coastal Bank all right does anybody on the commission have any questions problem you know comments additions changes to this order all right good afternoon David David little can you hear can you hear me yes I can and you're you're outside which isn't fair I'm I'm saddling up my horse to ride off into retirement um so I have read the order of conditions and we have no questions thank you very much okay then I think we're ready for a motion all right I move that we close the hearing and approve the order of conditions for nine Pine Grove Road second all right Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I that's passed as well all right thank you thank you on to the next okay next on the agenda is in order of conditions for 24 Avalon Point Road Paul M Sheridan and is the trustee of the Avalon Point residence trust map 12 12 L parcel L4 D number se10 3689 the project is proposed reconstruction of the existing beach access stairs okay does do any Commissioners have anything Bob do you I mention I mentioned something to uh uh I can't remember his name yeah at the last meeting right yeah yeah yeah um yes Seany Sean I'm sorry Sean lost of my train of thought uh but anyway there was a pine um next to the um stairway and that was a little bit of a problem there if you were going to widen the stairway did you resolve that issue yes so uh went out to the site we should be able to accommodate uh shifting a couple of inches uh to the other side to adjust that to avoid that Pine uh We've also reduced the width of the stair based on our last discussion of the uh new policy to not have more than a 3ft width um so I don't see that that's an issue you'd also have a question about um adding some vegetation along the uh the outsides in the bare areas which are not an issue uh and then you also had another question about uh the desire to have a kayak rack uh where they're storing The Kayaks and paddle boards of the beach I spoke with the applicant uh he would like to have a kayak rack so we could either add that to the plan or as a condition um that a kayak uh rack is approved uh whichever way you'd like to proceed with that one I read through the order um and didn't see anything or have any questions on the order okay well I think the order because it was one of my questions was um the uh width of the staircase because we had had um you had said 38 we had said 36 so you're saying it now um we'll have 36 yes 36 on the inside correct it it show we originally showed it as 38 um and we acknowledge the 36 so it will now be 36 on the inside all right we don't have any new plans right I could no you don't we have to go to the zoning board um and I wanted to report back to you on the kayak rack uh we can get a plan over to you uh as soon is tomorrow showing the kayak rack location and the adjustment to that stair okay if that would work yeah and also it probably needs to show the shifting of The Stairway to save that Pine yes um and then you said you're going to do some plantings to stabilize not yeah just basically just U seating some over seating along the bank uh with shade tolerant grasses just just uh to pick up some of those areas that don't have any understory is that satisfactory Bob yeah would you be using uh some erosion control uh Fabric or something there yeah some erosion control uh blankets along those edges correct I I'm not sure where will this grasses be the underneath the there's some some bare areas along the slope um they there was a Wilkinson did a a large restoration project at the toe right a while back that grew in nicely so there're just some additional barriers areas that have occurred along um along the stair that we'd addressed just as part of this okay I just wanted to make sure we get it into the order properly so we've added that there will be a kayak rack you'll get us where well you're going to have to you're going to provide a new plan correct yeah we can provide that plan tomorrow it's two minor changes yeah no so that we can say where the kayak rack will be located where will it be locate because we're hoping to approve this order today yep so um if you remember correctly on the plans there is a stair the stair runs down to a pier right so the level area right at the pier is where the kayak rack will be located uh adjacent to the stair that comes down to the beach okay so it'll be right at the at the bottom of the staircase um the new staircase and right where it's meeting with the existing Pier that's correct okay that's correct and then there's steps down to the beach that allow uh egress up and over the stair uh for anybody using the beach okay so right at that location great all right I just we wanted to make sure we get it into the order properly since we don't have that um plan yet um but you will get it to us tomorrow yes okay then any other comments concerns from Commissioners yes and and the planting areas will be on that plan as well Sean yes we we'll identify the uh the areas where there'll be um additional grasses and and the um the matting okay thank you okay then I think we can approve this order so let's uh R for a motion okay I move that we close the hearing and approve the order of conditions for 24 Avalon Point Road second Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I so it's been approved thank you Sean thank you okay Paul we're ready for the next for the next uh the last uh item for orders and conditions on the agenda for today is the address is 97 tipy run staging and access on 97 tipy run the owner tr97 nominee trust map 14 A3 process 2-b and n131 the EP number se10 3690 uh the agenda says emergency repair of an existing castal engineering structure it is repair now of an existing Coastal Engineering structure under a notice of intent that's the project thank you welome okay Commissioners do you have anything concerns comments anything to add to the order as it is now I got a couple of things okay um finding number 19 okay uh if you look at the date January 24th 2024 there should be a space in there space between what 20 the comma between the comma in 2024 okay we've just added that recently so that's set okay thank you and uh number um special condition number nine yes um I just I just added uh another sentence just to well we actually changed that maybe an hour ago oh you did so why don't I read it as it stands now and then see if if you if this fits in with what you're thinking um the Steel Road plates placed over the Morris island road tital gate will be sold to the town after the completion of the work for a dollar the value of the road plates is approximately $20,000 the sale of the plates is contingent upon the execution of a purchase and sale agreement between the applicant in the town and the parties agreeing on appr appropriate liability release from the town to the applicant following the sale and will be subject to further review and approval by Town Council and the select board in the event that the applicant and the town are unable to agree on terms for the sale of the plates by September 30th 2024 then the applicant shall donate the additional amount of 15,000 to the town of chadam special purpose fund as a substitute form of mitigation in lie of the sale of the steel plates this just came starting very late yesterday afternoon the plates were offered to the town for a dollar we still need to have the uh bill of sale approved by the select board and by Town Council and so we at this time don't have that approval because we couldn't get that this morning since select board didn't meet this morning and Town Council hasn't had time to get back to us so that's the background to what now has been written how what you yeah what I had was uh uh different uh okay from um had a different aim to it but I just wanted to start that special condition off with uh steel plates will be placed over the road to protect the Mars Island Road tidal gate from heavy transported loads moving to and from the site because it really didn't specify what the uh right why we have them yeah yeah that's true and I sort of was going by that they're in place but I think that's probably good to also state it here to be sure that we're more than covered so thank you for that sure other than that everything's all fine with me great thank you and Dan I think I see you on the platform so yes your thoughts um I'm okay with all of it except for the additional donation um I'm pretty confident we can come to terms on getting these to the town the intent is to get them there right um and we appreciate pretty simple release of liability um I don't think like that anything beyond that was not like part of any previous agreement so like I can't I can't speak for my applicant that he's going to be okay with that like we provided the plates we provided the bills sale $1 bill of sale with the release of liability um that seems pretty cut and dry to me right I think our concern has been and believe me we haven't even had 24 hours to digest all that's going on since a lot of it happened this morning or after hours yesterday um our concern is obviously the dollar I don't think the town will have a problem with um or has a problem with it's the liability and the release of liability and I can't speak for select board or councel on that um I I that's sort of where we're coming from and felt that in order to hopefully end this today we were trying to find a way that also so sort of protects the town obviously so any thoughts Janet I can I can chime in here um I think Dan you're right that it's pretty cut and dry and from our perspective we'd be ready to you know recommend approval but it has to go through Town Council and and the select board and there's we have no way of knowing how they're going to react we certainly hope they'll approve it but we started asking ourselves what happens if they don't if they find that the release of liability is is not something that they can be comfortable um providing so we that's why we thought well we go back to the original proposal of of an alternative donation um I mean the only other way to to to work this would be to if it's not approved then that release of liability language would have to drop out or something I mean I just don't know what we put in here that addresses the what if it's not approved question I I I think I would maybe ask that um if it's not approved by select board and Town Council that like we could come back and work something out under administrative approval um something along those lines I just I don't want to commit to a financial commitment for Greg H Greg Burman has his hand up so I'd like to recognize him go ahead thank you thank you Greg Burma director of Natural Resources for the town of chadam um the the town certainly appreciates the the applicant's willingness to work with the town and provide these plates um and you know from a reasonable standpoint this uh agreement is you know very appealing but we do have to go through our process one is since it does have liability language in the agreement we have to run a past Town Council and we we just weren't able to do that before this meeting uh the second one is that this would still probably be considered a donation uh for the the access in addition to the dollar uh as such the select board has to approve all donations to the town so we have to wait for the next select board meeting for them to be able to officially approve it um I I'd like to think that this would be relatively uh straightforward after we hit those thresholds but can't speak for either of those bodies at this time um I'm you know from a departmental uh view I i' like to think that we could work out the agreement between Town Council and whatever uh Council the applicant is using um but you know however the conation commission would like to to phrase it in the order is you know obviously up to you guys um we're working on it right now some wording uh how about something about if it's the agreements not executed by September 30th 2024 then a further period will be provided in order to allow the Pary additional time to finalize the agreement um I don't know maybe we need to put an an end date on that as well and say that a you know something absolutely has to be agreed upon by maybe I don't know another month I hate giving two months or a month and almost two months um I'm fine with that that seems okay so we said a period of 30 days will be provided um should we also add that this will be a negotiation between our our conservation division or Paul says no no thanks Paul Greg's got his hand go ahead Greg thank you yeah I mean it this wouldn't necessarily be a negotiation at this point certainly not on price uh this is just making sure that Our Town Council uh either approves of the agreement or has a minor tweak that the applicant can live with um but yeah it's you're not thinking where okay then we won't say anybody in particular especially not Paul um okay all right um now there were two things I had to question about um in the I can't find it now I have to find my comments so just to confirm the additional payment Lang language is coming out being replaced with the um the future negotiation language we took out the 15,000 yes uh so armor Flex yes are you using that nope I think that's carryover language from the previous orders of conditions with the neighbors so uh yeah what but you never commented on it in your review so I was thinking that so I have alternative language for it to fill fill in the correct language there okay so um in the sentence there where it says uh will be protected and stabilized with a so um after a put single layer of armor Stone sand nourishment and Native plantings to maintain uh maintain protection and maximize habitat oh wait slow it down wait a minute okay single layer of what of armor Stone a r b o r s t o n a armor yeah oh armor armor armor oh and sand nourishment and Native plantings MH to maintain protection while maximizing habitat okay that's a mish mash we have to get rid of the erosion control system na yeah that's coming out fix that um okay but you are using armor Stone a m o r s t o n e for yes the okay just want to make sure that I questioned everything um those were the only question I had um besides going over that new condition okay um anything else from any Commissioners Elise anything no I'm good okay Janet are you I am good with it okay well it looks like in record have one more sorry okay what's your other thought um for um condition 6 page 11h um I'd like a duration be added to that of 3 years to match um condition 14 uh special condition 14 so that's the uh the annual surveys and the annual monitoring reports yeah I hadn't changed that to three years because this is for the the life of the order which is three years so okay you know that's why I hadn't put that in but that's fine we've added the three years to condition six okay um anything else um I think that um is it for us and I think we just have a um just a a general request I think um and this is just to avoid any potential issues um we would ask that um Katherine Ricks recuse herself from commenting on um any jobs that she previously worked on um when she was a private consultant and just to avoid risk of U potential conflict of interest and how that could affect any future litigation anything like that yep absolutely just one thing to ask um after the armor plates are removed how is the road evaluated um they're not I don't think the armor plates are going to be removed first of all we have three more properties on toip IR run that are going to need those in place so I think these may be a almost a forever thing oh okay um because Greg can chime in so go ahead Greg thank you so the the town does have a Grant application in place to examine the tide gate um you know pending on the results of that Grant you know the rebuilding of that tie gate potentially into a culvert or or some new system uh it's still going to be you know multiple years away uh but once we redo that for restoration and Coastal resilience at that point we wouldn't need the plates there anymore but it's still going to be at least you know two plus years okay thank you okay anything else all right I guess we're ready for a motion all right all right I move that we close the hearing and approve the order of conditions as it's been amended here uh for 97 till it be run second Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I all right got your order thank you and um when can we pick it up uh is Crystal still on no I Dan uh through the chair if I could sure um I spoke to Crystal about an hour ago and she will have deot ready tomorrow I thought picking it up in hand would be the fastest way for you to get it um just call ahead to make sure she's done and it's ready and there's someone at the counter to um to deliver it and hand it off to you okay we will tomorrow then awesome thank you very much everybody Welcome appreciate it byebye thank you thank you okay Paul yes we're ready for the next all right okay uh now we're going to move over to uh determinations of applicability the first one on the agenda is 65 Squanto Drive Judith and Scott Stewart map 10c parcel e16 r- 24-24 pruning of six oak trees to improve air flow balance to be to better withstand severe weather and removal of invasive plants uh straggling of strangling trees is what the agenda says uh the applicant has requested a continuance to September 11th for this one perfect then we're ready for a motion okay I move that we continue 65 Squanto drive to the hearing on September the 11th second was your thing on yeah oh okay okay Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I okay we're ready for the next okay next on the agenda Madam chair uh is a submitted notice of intent application the address is 60 Robins way Yugi seato you know who I am with names map 10K parcel 12-19 D number 10 3697 the project is proposed driveway reconfiguration and installation of a septic system with an IIA component including plantings okay thank you I pass on the line okay ald with Shannon Goen so we're back here I spoke with Paul yesterday afternoon about the minor missing um items in our application I have a letter that's been submitted digitally and I have eight copies here that I can either hand in here or upstairs and that's for um a more robust Alternatives analysis for the planting that will occur within 50 ft of the Coastal Bank it did seem to make sense for that planting to uh go from lawn to Native Landscaping to be a far superior option and then Shannon had a few revisions to her plan to review would you I have some handouts would you like them sure we can take them we don't have a quorum sitting in the room though we so we have one upstairs and then so not now unless you'd like to see them now it it sure oh okay we'll we can do whatever we I can always take them up yeah it's just that we don't have everybody so they're not able to see it right there we go Janet thanks thank you thanks okay go ahead whatever you all want to discuss big changes that were made with landscape plan um better highlighting the 50 and 100 foot zones and then also providing a list of the percentage Natives and which zone each one is in it the no disturb zone or 50 to 100 right okay so when you say 84% native is that the number of plants or is it the it's square footage it is square footage okay just so we know um so all the rest of the Hy ranges that you have listed there were quite a few those are not anywhere in our um there's only two listed that are non-native and and you have one two three four five six listed and I know smooth are native so um are the rest that aren't listed they're not in our jurisdiction yeah um in the 50 to 100t South as you see the way I labeled my list I took um all of the hydranges out so there wouldn't be any question all of the hydranges and the existing arberi uh removed um and they make up the 16% non-native okay so and the others yes to answer your question are out of your jurisdiction okay that's the part because I only see list of four hi or three hydranges and there are six that were on your plan and so I just wanted to make sure where those other three versions were going okay because it's kind of hard on these plans with everything that goes on in this property it's a little bit difficult to figure out where what's where so thank you for that um so we have that we have the Alternatives analysis and I assume this is the request for the variance as well there was a request for a variance in the okay application find it I don't know why we we usually put it right up at the top just how this has a yeah I I looked and looked yesterday I we'll look again okay um and then um the work protocol we didn't have that we couldn't find that okay Alternatives analysis too yeah he just hand it to us all right so um it'll get up to you all too um anybody else have questions comments anything I got a quick comment sure uh a lot of a lot of different plants a lot of plantings here and who's going to maintain all of this going forward we'll figure that out it's a lot of variations and well it's primarily there's a a down in the far south it's essentially a wild flower garden mhm um they don't require a lot of Maintenance um usually they get mowed that's about the extent of it um the other ones as you're coming around here is you're moving your Way North are again they're native and potentilla is something you almost never prune unless it dies you know grass cut it down once so it's basically weeding that would happen in any garden and then in the area out of your jurisdiction and the few um hydranges that are near the door you know they're low ones so there's hardly any maintenance there so I don't see it as being any more difficult than anything else you got weeds you got mowing yeah water um did we request U demarcation of any of these areas my next thing waiting for you to request it I didn't want to take all your thunder for protection of these areas plant planted areas um what is going to be surrounding these areas um so they don't get mowed over you know by landscapers maybe or uh so the the homeowner and um future owners realize that these areas these plantings need to be protected because uh um you know their mitigation for the work that's being done what do people do a metal strip usually and I mean it's really that section to the north that's the realation that we're looking at well but even around where you've got the native planting with geranium you know all that it there's lawn right there so probably you want to any it's almost all up against lawn and our concern you know so I would think more than just the one area needs to be demarcated well I mean it's the foundation planting aren't you just going to Edge it like is it going to be an edge bed is this I mean it's basically it's just foundation planting right is it going to be an edged bed you going to have an edge to it exactly well yes that's my assumption yeah you kick in an edge right you going we don't want it to blend into the grass like you know with a messy Edge right um I mean you know this is this mitigation is is just just a basic it's a foundation planting so imagine you're going to have a kicked Edge probably a kicked Edge on the on the next to the driveway right mhm and but it's really that planting to the north that's what needs to be protected that's what we're really looking at is the mitigation the Jo in the swamp milkweed across the top of the drawing it does say something about a 4ot mo strip on one side of of it I don't know if that's sufficient or we needed yeah that's between the woods and the yeah and the and the planting yeah are pretty wild that side you've got something um I don't know you need to add it to the other side something could you put a metal metal edging all the way around yeah sure okay that way it doesn't get mowed mhm um anything else Bob no thank thank you Eric no Janet I am good all right we have somebody with their hand up and I can't sorry I can't read who it is so no B oh uh good afternoon my name is Bob Boon I'm the U owner of the property adjacent to uh the applicant's property right um but I've got a little bit more skin in this game than the average of butter because if you look on the uh drawing that M Goen has submitted part of the driveway is on my property there's a small portion of it next to Robins way it's shared in the sense that both eug and I have to drive over each other's property briefly in order to get into our respective driveways uh so given that uh and it's been that way for years I just want to make the commission aware of this and ask that they not approve anything that would imped that access to my property now my lawyer has determined that the situation um meets the requirements for what's called a prospective ease prescriptive rather easement right and therefore he said that the easement is valid and I realized from the last hearing ma'am that you're not in the easement business and I'm not asking you to get into it no I just want to make you aware that this one exists we're using it and it's necessary for us at present uh to continue using it to get onto our properties um I've submitted a letter and a plan which is on file since 2002 yes we re okay um I'm not even worried that there's a problem here because I've with shanon Goen several times down at the property she's very familiar with the whole layout she's familiar with the areas that we are sharing and I don't think her uh design which is a pretty good design um is going to in any way impact the easement but I just want the commission to be aware of it so that they don't inadvertently approve anything that my clock access and didn't you just say that the plan that's been presented does not block the your access it might correct her drawing right what she has in her drawing doesn't block access but I just want to make okay put the not not rely on an assumption well that would be the plan of record that will be used but Paul if you'd like to yes I I two things I just want to uh uh toggle back to uh the variance request and and ask that um it has to be submitted separately um as a separate document and then I know you'll follow all the procedures within it but just checking off we're saying in in a cover letter I'm applying for a variance is not uh sufficient um as to the prescriptive easement um doesn't matter what a lawyer says you need a court order um you have to meet five elements um have to be proven in court of law and you have to get a decree from a court before you have a prescriptive easement plus as we've said many times we don't deal with private property rights right I understand that and Mr ELD has put on the plan that he submitted uh proposed driveway easement which I appreciate and UG and I are working on um making that proposed easement into an exact one um but again I don't want access to my property blocked so that's why I'm giving you the information um I'll continue to work with the lawyer and with ug to to formalize this uh in actuality the easement that we're proposing is going to modify the existing one to make it much more applicable to the area of concern um so again I just don't want access to my property block all right uh and I just want to be clear make sure I'm clear at this time the plans that are before us are do not threaten your easement or your ability to get into your property correct that is correct great that's all I needed to hear thank you and Paul do you still have something or no okay just wanted to make sure that's fine um again um you know um not sufficient to claim a prescriptive EAS you have to prove it in court that's all right well then understand anybody Elise anybody have any other questions problems any anything with I I do I do not have anything specific at this point it's all been covered okay anybody here I have nothing then I think we can send this to an order um the 11th or the 25th yeah the 11th or 25th what does the 11th 11th works okay okay I move that we uh continue 60 Robins way for an order of conditions uh on September the 11th second okay Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I so we will have an order for you next week great thank you much thank you great all right Paul next one thank you madam chair next on the agenda is a uh notice of intent for zero crosswind Farm Joseph and jaro and Hana Rook map a 10j parcel 7A lp36 D number SC10 3688 this is a proposed single family dwelling okay I know I screwed the name up anyway okay great we do have your representative so go ahead H good afternoon everyone for the record my name is Hannah radit Wetland scientist with BSC uh the revised plans were submitted uh which included a few um updates um I can share my screen if that would be helpful the updates included only a few uh revisions including uh indicating which trees will be removed with a red um cross cross them um and the stone markers to be placed at the edge of both mitigation and restoration areas uh as well as a planting t uh table with planting area detail to show where these plants will roughly be placed thank you thank you for all of that and I do already it see that you have applied to zpa zba and you're being heard on October 24th correct that's my understanding I believe the applicants are also in the audience they are and can okay and can speak to that then okay um they're nodding yes I don't think they need to come right up and and speak if they don't need to um okay so why don't you go over the changes that you made and then we'll proceed from there we do have the plan up on the screen I think you did that I can see that that's perfect thank you um so as I mentioned the red x marks are um showing the trees that are within uh conservation's jurisdiction that will be removed uh as we discussed last time time this includes um I believe 10 trees mhm um and much of these are within AC there's only a few on the uh other edge of the house that are just within um the outer edge of the 100t buffer de Coastal Bank um we've also got these um pink little circles to show where um stones will be placed along the edge of the mitigation and restoration areas to um keep those areas separate so that it's understood um that the management of those areas will be separate from any other lawn areas great I appreciate that and finally um just a bit above the plan we've got the um planting area detail right there so that indicates roughly where these plants will be located um within this planting area we sort of spread them out so that there's um a a diversity amongst the height of the species and all of the lower species are shade tolerant to an extent so they should be able to thrive even when the canopy becomes more mature in this area though that will take some time for sure okay and I believe that's all the changes okay that's I I was going to say anything else um okay commissioner do you have any questions comments no Elise do you while everybody looks it's UNL looking too okay the number of trees 10 trees are going out and they're being replaced by 11 is it 11 11 trees okay is that the right ratio Karen um you know I I don't think it does state where the trees coming out whether they're in the ndz or the outer Aura okay so these we've got three within the outer Aura um and the a one to one for those and then the remainder of the trees we also went with a one: one replacement uh because as we discussed in the initial meeting um there was no additional multiplier for replacing trees within AC thank you Hannah okay so I think we're probably okay with that yep um anything else Elise are the boulders accurate to the volume the number number of folders that you're going to put in I count 12 so it is that the representation of the spacing of the folders uh I think it's it's a general suggestion of the the line um the applicant is willing to add more or add um some change of fencing within this we have mixed mitigation area which obviously no um tampering will occur as well as the restoration area which has the dots and that is an area that we're proposing to mow at least once per year um so if there's a a request to change up this designation we can do that okay thank you about how far apart are they maybe eight feet uh it definitely it definitely changes I think this had more to do with sort of following the general um curves of these areas so marking them where there would be useful for someone with a lawn mower or someone going out to do work yeah I have a question the applicant is the one doing the mowing right the applicant himself most likely yeah so I I doubt he'll be mowing mowing over what he just planted um to me the bottom line is this this house is adjacent to you know Route 28 I know it's it's in within the flood plane but um I think the uh you know I think the applicant and you've done a good job and it's pretty tight the way it is we've asked everything we wanted you to do and okay it's all you can do Janet anything nope I am good okay and Elisa sorry did you have anything else oh I was done thanks Karen okay um I know we have an a butter here you're welcome to come up hello for the record I'm Carolyn whittle a butter at 1013 Orleans Road I'll be quick I have just two things um the commission is well aware that I'm concerned about the cutting down of trees at zero Crossman Farm Road but I'm equally concerned about the landscape mitigation plan which crams 11 large trees not just medium trees or bushes into um a small area that area will adversely and planting will adversely um impact My Views the power and communication lines that run from the state highway up the hill to my home and especially the safety of anyone using my shared driveway so I'd appreciate the commission considering an alternative planting plan maybe keeping some of those trees in the already forested area or on the western side of the lot rather than trying to move all of them into that area along the state highway and my proper line the only other comment I have is that I just want to make sure that I fulfilled the commission's request at the last meeting we attended regarding the archaeological and historical sensitive area and if you were looking for anything else from me actually I mean we've you know you've discussed it we have given opportunity that is not something that's within our jurisdiction we cannot prevent anything from happening just because it's believed to be a burial ground um I appreciate the concern I appreciate the historical significance if there's something there but that's not something that our commission deals with and I don't know what department does but we've given you know we've help tried to help you get that going but that can't be something that prevents us from going to an order right but you're not looking for me to supply anything else to you I've done my part okay no thank you and I think there have been several people who have contacted the state about it I think so so I don't know if anybody's heard anything but last I heard they hadn't okay so as far as that's concerned you know I'm sorry but that can't be something that causes us to hold off on this or not act on it it right I am concerned about all the trees in a small area so I get views being impacted and I I I you know I I understand that um that's not something that we can deny because of somebody's view is impacted we usually ask that you know homeowners work together to come to a a satisfactory agreement when you said you and I believe you've gone into a bit more detail but the safety issue of people using your driveway so two issues the visibility at the bottom of the driveway pulling out not being able to see Crossman Farm or the curve there and then also the sun comes up on Ryder's Cove and that early morning sun does the best early melt on black ice and snow and ice on the deepest part of the curve the hair pin curve there the proposed plan the trees I'm seeing go to 35 ft and then 6 60 feet high they have root bases that go from 25 ft to 250 feet so I don't know how my communication and power cables won't be impacted I only have in some areas a 5- foot strip between the asphalt of the driveway and the property line there's very little room for anyone to get in there and do any repair or any work okay would you like to speak to that does she have her hand up yep y there yeah I'm sorry go ahead um so when it comes to the placement of the trees the two Cedars that are proposed along that uh lower Southern corner will be roughly in the same place as that existing Cedar which is mature height these saplings that will be placed in definitely have the ability to get up to 35 ft tall but that is the maximum uh height you would expect and it's not necessarily the case for any tree um these trees could be stunted by a number of conditions from wind or the soil so it's not a guarantee that these trees would be that tall though that existing Juniper that is proposed to be removed in that southern corner by the proposed dwelling and also by the driveway is about mature height so the two that would be placed there would not be um significantly increasing um coverage of that area they also have a a more narrow canopy which is more beneficial than placing uh something like a a red oak which would be um providing more coverage more reaching out branches towards that property um there's a far lower risk with these seedar of coming into contact with the wires especially because there's a few feet buffer between the edge of the pavement and the edge of our area that we show as restoration which is cut back a bit from that road roadway um so the placement of these trees within the area is strategic um for keeping you know waywood branches and and falling um falling trees away from the wires though again these these saplings will be quite small and it'll take them uh quite a few uh years to get up uh anywhere near that mature size perhaps even decades with the um Red Oaks which could also be black Oaks um we we place them sort of in the center um and those again they will be very small for quite a long time they are very slow growing trees um and even though this does seem a bit packed in this does mirror a typical forest in which there's um saplings growing often right on top of each other especially on this property you can see how close those Cedars are they're far closer than we're even proposing in this plan so there will be plenty of time for those roots to establish in a in a way that's harmonious and and should not um impact the longterm health of this of this plot um and I I I don't see uh safety concerns with the placement especially with the cedar being closest to the road so if I'm reading your map correctly and the measurements some of those trees are only 5 feet from my property line is that correct uh they that that might be a uh a bit close and it may just be the drawing but that's my concern is that when I follow the map and try to stick to the facts some of those are only five to seven feet from the property line it's a general estimate on where those would be um because we just wanted to sort of map out where these plants could be find found in the future so that they can be monitored um but they will be within a few feet of the property line so what's a few feet um as as you mentioned 5 feet could be an accurate estimate or those could also be shifted closer to the dwelling within that area but still maintaining that General spot it's more of a a general map is there a way to ensure they're 10t or more or 15 or more what is this so I think that would be pushing sort of the limits of that area could could I offer a solution which is that as far as the placement of these trees that the homeowners and you work together oh I don't know I don't think that I I don't agree with that I mean that that could be that could be a problem obviously there's there's you know there's from what I can hear there's there's a problem here I mean number one is their property yeah number two is I have have to say from your house on a clear day I can see forever um as far as view goes um but you're a high but I mean uh I I personally don't see a pro problem I will say we cannot deny something be based off of your view may be changing they you know usually homeowners would work together yeah um I'm actually more concerned about the communication and power lines and the driveway and I want trees you might remember I started this with don't cut down the trees get out of the forest so I want the trees I just don't want future problems and I plan on living decades so I know these trees won't re maturity for decades but I am looking towards the future right and you never know if they could be knocked out in a storm so um I I just I think at this point and I'll ask the ones that are here and Elise um is there anything in this at this time that anyone considers would prevent us from going to an order Janet um I think from a conservation perspective we've done everything um um the mitigation is acceptable um to the extent that there are issues between abutters um in terms of views or power lines or any of that stuff um that would be U more appropriately addressed at a zoning hearing they were they are open to that kind of thing because they look at how the what is proposed fits into the overall neighborhood because they want alignment um it's just out of our purview because we're strictly conservation so I would would say we are ready to close this and and send it over to zba and let them have I think as far as from our perspective they have met and listened and met what we've asked yes um so and they still do need to be heard by zba so that's really the appropriate place right um does anyone else feel differently at least um I do not feel differently I have a sensitivity to both homeowners and I think the zba involvement will clarify quite a bit of these issues and I I I put it in their great hands we you know we we overlap and we are very um sympatico in our work so I am I have I do not have concerns with where we are at from our our perspective great Bob how do you you feel I'm sympathetic to both uh the uh the owners of the property and the abutter and I think they should get together and come up with a plan and before these trees are planted that's my feeling on it um so uh I don't know if if these trees could be moved uh on the plan I don't think it's uh I think it's a simple thing um and I wouldn't want to have a tree right on my property line as well that's my feeling and and 5 feet away or three feet away from a property line is pretty close thank you all right but um I think we can go to an order obviously an order would not be issued until after you've met with zba and that is October 24th the next one November is it the 6th that's I was just looking for my calendar uh so it would be November 6th if that is agreeable and if zba changes anything then it that time we revisit is how we do things so um I think we're ready for a motion all right um I move that we continue Z Z crosswind Farm Road um for an order of conditions on November 6th uh second Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I so thank you very much for your input and thank you to everyone and hopefully we will be able to issue an order at that time thank you for your consideration thank you thank you for your time thank you all right Paul on thank you madam chair now we're going to move on to uh certificates of compliance first on the agenda is 159 cine Road Michael and Elizabeth Baldwin are the applicants map 11 K parcel hc13 D number sc1034 59 the project was Stone revetment replacement um I believe Bob Perry might be uh online to answer any questions but I've been over to the property several times um I think it came out very well uh the order was issued in 2021 for reconstruction of a rment uh there was a joint project at next door at 187 cine that's going to come in later for a COC they removed the toe stones and the armor Stones they used most of them um to replace and rebuild the wall so it was a temporary removal um the top of the bank is now very stable uh we have pictures online on mtown gov of the vegetation Bob submitted um photographs of the wall uh the vegetation which is it just looks really good um nourishment was done it's done on an annual basis and it was done this year the only um deviation was that um the applicant didn't submit um I believe annual monitoring reports having said that if you've looked at the project I know you guys go out and look at them um it it the monitoring reports I think with the submission of the material that he showed the photographs and just looking at the property um we can sort of maybe just rely on that that it came out the way that it was supposed to was in a substantial compliance uh there was an as built requirement but was an either or um a written statement from the uh engineer that the project is in compliance or an as belt uh and that was to be decided by the agent Bob and I talked about that uh given the fact that I was very familiar with it and it came out as good as it did I didn't see the need for requiring an ass billt um Bob also certified the dimensions were exactly uh the same so that's it I would you know if Bob has any comments or you have any questions I would recommend um a full C see on this unless the Commissioners um this agree no I I went out and boy I think it it looked terrific uh the grass everything's it looks like it's done well and I don't have a problem with it any other comments all right Madam chairman yes just perod tring oh hi Bob I didn't see that you were on yeah I just thank you for the review I um just recalling that our letter uh may have uh wished to have an ongoing condition for sand nourishment that had been undertaken since the uh revent was replaced so there had been constant engagement and I I know there there's a very good beach there today um but if if you're interested in an ongoing condition for sentiment I know we put it in our you did y to put in there so I did see that yeah I feel I failed to mention you I got a list of ongoing condition so uh should be all set on the nourishment BB yep thank you okay then we're ready for a motion all right I move that we approve the request for a certificate of compliance for 24 and two Salt Pond Road second okay Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I so that's approved okay Paul next one um well through the chair uh if it's okay Katherine worked on 104 crur Lane there were to um she's spoken with David little and they requested a continuance um if Katherine could just uh indicate what was missing and what's needed in order to um vote on this uh application you there Catherine yes I am all right Catherine Catherine Rex I'm gonna give this a go so these are certificate of compliance requests for 104 cranberry Lane Elizabeth and Donnelly map 15 parcel W6 D SE number 10 3292 um for an addition and convert the garage into a living space driveway and Associated site work additionally another one with se10 3414 construction of hard skate raining walls Etc and we did receive a certified plot plan after but there were some missing items on that plot plan which included um a patio and some mitigation area definitions and a wash area so we requested that from the applicant and they requested a continuance to the next meeting uh to provide us that information great [Music] so we are continuing to September 11th correct correct all right okay um Katherine did you read both or are we just going to vote on them separ okay you did read both okay all right then um I'm going to make a motion that we approve the request for a continuance for both matters involving 104 cranberry Lane to September the 11th second okay Janet um I Elise I and I say I okay Paul okay uh thank you next on the list is the last certificate compliance um 70 judges way ever and joy uh using using you got it 11 11b parcel one B- R6 D number SC10 3440 the project was short front protection um this was the one that we had on the agenda previously Eric had some issues with the the stakes that were left in um I got an email this morning I put up some phot photographs um from T Bond on this uh that were recently taken I just got them this morning so you probably didn't have a chance to see those but they're up there um I've been back out I don't know if it satisfies um you know what Eric was looking for I mean the J netting is there it's pretty stable I you know some of the beach grass is you know I I I suppose you can look at it two ways it's stable or you need to do more to more beach grass and um I'm not sure Eric if you had an issue with the uh the uh temporary irrigation or not I may be mixing that up but having said that um I I think it's up to you guys to sort of decide now if you think it it should be approved or we need to do further um review of this and work with the applicant a little bit more yeah no it's it's I I went there and looked again there was nothing the beach grass and the veg ation was fine uh it was just that they left Marc Stakes all over the place they didn't clean up after themselves in other words I don't think there was any irrigation issues uh they did forget one stake I picked it up for them but other than that it's fine okay great well then I recommend uh we approve the uh cooc for 70 judges way okay all right motion then I move that uh we approve the certificate of compliance for 70 judges way second Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I okay that's approved okay Paul next on the agenda any uh excuse me minutes uh to be approved for June 12th 2024 and June 26 202 4 okay any modifications comments anything on the two minutes that we have um I made mine on the version in in teams folders so they're showing up they're very minor yeah I looked and they're fine Bob anything June 12th of 93 scattery Road uh the third sentence down the the existing chain link fence has been removed not have been removed aha okay and then George Ryder Road airport the seventh sentence down it just said uh Bob without a reference the last name so it wasn't me I think I think B add Bob RWS um right here right in the middle of whoops where is it it's right Bob rais there it is five walls okay anything else that's it thank you okay formal commissioner yeah um anything for June 26th okay then I think we can take them together well wait a minute who is in attendance I think we're okay all right so I think we're okay because so on the 12th we had everybody and I think the 26th we had everybody at least everybody who here no everybody yeah we had a full group on both days that's we doing the airport and we made everybody show yes okay all right then I'm going to make a motion that we approve the minutes as amended uh for June 12th and June 26th 2024 second okay Janet hi Eric hi Elise I and I say I okay Paul okay now on the agenda we have any unforeseen items brought before the commission uh there are two items the first is um 30 SE Point um Road the application um was continued at the last hearing to the 20 to the 2th 28 25th I'm sorry um yeah the the issue here is that the applicant um has indicated that they uh are not going to remove in kind the stairs that are located on the castal bank that would trigger uh if they if they did rebuild them in kind that would trigger the need for a special permit from the zoning board of appeals that would extend it out further they want to treat the not weed as soon as they can so they've offered to remove that part of the application a um and send a revised narrative and a revised plan uh they're not going to do anything with the stairs if they do it at all they'll do it later and file an amendment um and then they'll have to get a zba uh approval for that having said that they would like to have the hearing uh voted to be continued to 911 which will give them a little bit more time to work on that uh noxious not weed that is all over the place out there that's that's really what their concern is um to get at that as soon as they can so if the commission is agreeable we could take a vote to uh move the hearing to 911 okay Janet um I'm going to move that we um resend the continuance to September 25th um and continue 30 Sears Point Lane to the hearing on September the 11th second okay Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I so that's done and what else Paul um yes one one I forgot to mention um Madam chair the other day um I'm not sure if we did this already but uh Jordan valenzo at the cape cide commission asked if we would withdraw the discretionary referral now that they've completed their um entire review and held their hearings and made their decision um so we she asked that we vote to resend the uh discretionary referral formally okay without there ever having made a decision about it uh no I they have I they've completed it um they decided to deal with it through the mo through the modification process and uh she sent me an email asking you know since they've completed their uh process that they would like us to to uh withdraw okay okay somehow it feels like they got off the hook I I don't know Janet do you have some information I mean I could no I don't they they we what we were trying to accomplish with that was get them to conduct the hearings and a full review which is what happened so it doesn't really matter that they didn't do it in response to our referral that's all right then I will move that we uh withdraw the referral of the chatam airport um discretionary referral to the Cape Cod Commission second okay Janet I Eric I Elise I and I say I okay Paul that's all we have I think I don't have anything else unless the commission does on uh on unforeseen items does anybody have anything they need discussed no great okay motion motion to adjourn second I Janet Eric I Elise I don't I and I say I and Bob I it's after dinner time there leise yeah okay we're all set all right go have a nice dinner you earned it thank you for take care [Music] [Music]