e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] good afternoon this is a hearing of the chadam Conservation Commission being held on June 5th 2024 in accordance with the Massachusetts Wetlands protection act and the town of Chad and Wetland protection bylaw and regulations my name is Janet Williams and I serve as the chair today's hearing is being broadcast live on Channel 8 and is being recorded for the on demand archives available on the town's website it's also being conducted in person by phone and by video conference so the agenda instructions on how to attend and copies of documents for review have been posted on the town meeting website mytown government.org which can be accessed through a link on the Conservation Commission website so to all participants whether you're attending by phone or online please remain muted unless you have been recognized by the chair to speak and if you're attending by phone you can mute and unmute mute by using star six and if you're online and you're not a commission member we ask that you please keep your camera turned off unless you've been recognized you can indicate that you wish to speak by using the raised hand feature when you're recognized please remember to state your name for the record and so that we have a record of a quorum attending today I'll now now ask each commission member to indicate their presence Vice chair Karen Laton present Bob RS present Mary Sullivan I can't see that's I don't believe so not not yet okay she is not here today Elise Gordon present Cheryl mury present Eric Hilbert present associate member Bob Delio present all right we've established that we've had a quorum I'm here uh before we begin the agenda I'll ask uh Paul Whitman chams conservation agent um whether we have any requests for continuances today good afternoon Madam chair Commissioners yes we do uh 162 Shore Road uh that'll be continued to July 24th 2024 and 108 Beach Plum Road will be continued to June 12 2024 uh there may be one other 53 marshview Road uh David Clark may be in the audience to address that to zba uh there's an issue with that so uh for now it's those two possibly 53 Marv Road all right thank you Mr Clark is in the audience so we'll we'll find out what's going on with that when we get to it uh but first uh Paul you want to lead us through the first items on the agenda absolutely Madam chair uh first item on the agenda is a request to amend an order of conditions 500 Shore Road Steven and Stacy uh Barton match map 16g parcel A5 D number SC10 3645 uh Bank stabilization excuse me amendment to construct and maintain beach access stairs and placement of a portable rent station okay thank you um and is there there seems to be somebody for the project on the platform yes yes R go ahead identify yourself and good afternoon to you good afternoon for the record rard with cape and Islands engineering representing the applicant um we did receive and downloaded from the town portal the draft order of condition um we did notice four minor corrections I believe that were needed for for the draft and I think those Corrections were um edited in the version that I believe is going to be reviewed now um and the applicant has no objections to the special um conditions thank you all right thank you very much I am seeing a a a version that has some changes tracked and ident ified and I'm assuming that that's what you are referring to um the one is just changing um oh Second Amendment is not appropriate this is the first amendment of this order I think yes um what else condition 10 is switched to condition 13 which is the the uh seasonal removal of the bottom section of the stairway and impacts from the project to oh to okay got it y those are all fine um those are the only changes that I'm seeing tracked in uh on the online version in the Dropbox so does anybody else have other question other changes or edits or issues I noticed the version that I edited was then renamed conflicted copy and I'm not sure what was all what that was about I mean there are some let me take a look differences I see Bob RS inflicted copy Ru did you did you were you speaking with like with Crystal or somebody in the office this morning to relay those comments no it was through an email um correspondence that was sent out yesterday and I received an email back um from Crystal saying that they made the changes okay all right so we'll just have to merge these two um and since the one that um reflect Raul's changes are very minor I will I will make sure that those get put in into this one so we will work with the one that's identified as Bob Ross's conflicted copy okay not my name but that is so appropriate but there were two significant the if if I could uh Crystal made the changes they came from Bill Lichfield y um I believe everything is I'm sorry you have conflicting ones but they were made she confirmed it and I think um they're they're okay with what was done okay um I yeah as I look it's fine this amended order it's not a second yep the uh yeah I'm going to I'm just incorporating those changes into this one all right now Bob yeah the things that I identified I'm not sure they're in the I guess the the version that we're working on here had to do with the width of the stairs I thought there was an agreement they would be 3T wide instead of four um and and there I had put something in there about confirming the applicant's promise not to put Lighting on the on the uh railing on the stairwell posts I don't I don't see any reference to Lighting in the in the version that we're looking at so I think there weren't uh they weren't really merged no I think you had your the lighting reference was taken out okay um so we updated it yesterday midday um so it may have been that you were you you did a uh I don't know what version you would have had but yeah that that reference was removed um now but I thought both of those were proposed by the applicant yes certainly the lighting that's there's no no there's no doubt about that and that should be I'll double check and make sure that there's no reference to lighting um rul when I looked at the at the site plan to um confirm irm the width I know that we normally prefer 3T but I don't recall it coming up in the conversations whether this one is 3T or 4 feet um can you confirm so yes um the majority of the stair is 3 feet so the stairs the actual step sections are going to be 3 feet what we are doing is at The Landings we're doing 4 foot wide Landings so the stairs are 3 feet for the majority um of the project The Landings are four feet wide um the beginning at the very top where we have the bench that section is going to be 4 feet because one foot is going to be occupied by the bench right okay yeah that's what my notes have so okay um oh this is an old and if I can clarify yeah I'm sorry if I could clarify on the on the lighting the version that I downloaded from the portal yesterday of the draft order condition did not talk about the lighting so okay and we did the applicant agreed to take the lighting completely out of the project right okay so yeah it was removed from the plan it was removed from everything so we didn't uh in the version I worked looked at there was no reference to it at all because it doesn't exist anymore um yeah so I'm seeing yeah your thing stops at number four there were uh 12 findings so you definitely had an ear an earlier version yeah but I would I would ask that we put for emphasis in the special conditions that there will be no lighting within resources no harm in saying that there's absolutely no problem with saying that got it anything else at least no down here this side anybody Bob I got a couple of things okay um do in the general conditions uh do we have a boilerplate um item that refers to no lights on stairways uh on Coastal banks no but we will there a re going forward yes it's a good thing we it's not been proposed before but I can see you know on these long stairways that people are going to be asking for it but yeah in that in that protected zone no okay I will add that to our template and um I don't know what version I have but uh finding amended finding number eight I had I got it from the Dropbox I know which one that is um the lowest section of the stairway is seasonal and will be removed as required in special condition uh one I think it is 14 now I've added something yeah okay so um and that is supposed to be stored on the stairway I believe yep um can we make reference to that yeah it says it says the lowest span of the stairway shall be aluminum and seasonally removable it shall be removed no later than December 1st of each year and stored securely on the permanent section okay terrific thank you all here okay anybody else on the platform or anything all right with that we'll take a motion to close this hearing and approve the order of conditions I move that we close the hearing and approve the amended order of conditions for 500 Shore Road Gordon second roll call vote Bob I leise I Karen I Eric I Cheryl I and I vote I that's unanimous thank you R that's been approved thank you thank you all right let me just go ahead and make accept these changes and get it ready for Crystal to all right all right Paul what's next then uh next up is a request for an order of conditions the address is 53 Marsh View Road alvarro and Laura marono map HC parcel s38 the EP number S10 3676 demolition of an existing dwelling and construction of a new dwelling good afternoon David Clark uh on behalf of the master Bonos as you're probably aware zoning board had some uh not aware I had a critical review of the house so uh they're going to make some modifications um and most likely there will be changes to the grading that are on the site plan that you've already seen um so I would imagine you're going to want to continue it till zba hears it one more time which is I think August 14 I mean the next meeting after the zba is August 14 okay um when did when did this happen when was zba last week uh week two weeks ago would have been good to have notice of that before we wrote the order um just saying that now we'll we'll pull it out and uh store it somewhere until but we will have to come back to another hearing to look at whatever how the plan has changed yeah I I don't think other than grading I don't think anything's changing in your jurisdiction certainly the house hasn't getting any bigger so the mitigation is going to be the same so there issues were all with the grading no no about the mass of the house so one of the solutions is is to drop the elevation another foot uh which means regrading a little more than than what's on shown we'll figure that out then um okay August 14th it works okay I move that we continue 53 Marsh View Road to the for an order of conditions on August 14th 201 24 Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi leas I Karen I Eric I Cheryl I and I vote I thank you back here August 14th thank you all right Paul what's next next on the agenda is another request for an order of conditions the address 347 Bridge Street Martin and Nancy Bach map 15 excuse me 16 B parcel 23-20 D number SC10 3683 project removal of a cesspool from a buffer zone and replace within a with a 1500g septic tank distribution box and 32 foot long and 11t wide and two twoot deep leeching chamber system okay was there somebody um representing this project uh yes uh hi good afternoon my name is Gabriel Pilla with gr Consulting okay um have you seen a Cy of the uh draft order of conditions um posted on okay all right let me start with the commission members um I'm not seeing any further changes from the last one that was uh edited and posted yesterday one typo okay oh okay where is it six special condition six six will we remain right okay got that uh I would like to uh do point out that uh there was a change in the plans um regarding the plantings um the last hearing it was requested that a planting schedule should be provided in case the plantings the existing plantings are affected by construction so we laid that out in the plan okay did we see that do you have did you special indes special condition five indicates that they would need to provide a planting plan I did not see the one that was added okay you just need to if you have turned it in already to the conservation agent he has it so um he will send it to us but um I did not hear from anybody that there were any issues with it so hearing no objection I'm going to assume it's fine anybody else anything else on 347 Bridge Street all right let's have a motion to close and approve I move that we close the meeting and um approve the order of conditions for 347 Bridge Street Gordon second Bob I Elise I Karen I Eric I Cheryl I and I vote I thank you that's been approved thank you very much have a good day you too thanks hey Paul we have one more order to look at yes uh 486 Shore Road uh applicant 486 Shore Road limited liability company map 16f parcel A7 be number se10 3678 project elevated stairs to a beach over Coastal Bank okay I'm looking at um so I picked up I see the change that's what I get for cutting and pasting um it is this one is exact is three feet half inch of space between the decking um I don't see any other issues anybody on the commission have any questions or issues B I had the same thing about the lights I don't know if that came up or not it did not did not um but there's nothing again you know well there's no harm in putting in a condition that no lighting yeah the stairway will not be illuminated in any way by lights uh attached to or or near the structure but whatever yep and I've got my note to make sure that makes it into the template anybody else anybody also I had um uh special condition number 11 uh um it talks about a mo STP and I wasn't sure what the most the most trip was to keep the invasives uh from the new plantings but uh I'm not sure if there's no grass here so it's not doesn't apply okay I'll just take it out for clarity that's all I had thank you all right thank you yeah couple of things in here special condition number was actually the numbering is off in special condition so that was my one comment that was one comment oh yeah oh I'm looking at it one two one two okay that happen I don't know sometimes these programs get a mind of their own all right well I'm fixing that what yeah I I actually tried to fix it but they got all squirreled up so I backed off formatting we all hate it and then the other one is the same issue as with the previous OC is the 3T or yeah whether it should be 3T red it's four this one is three it was never I had for some reason something in my notes and on the other one that had said four but um so the ver must have been talking about The Landings all right the version I edited had had four so I changed it to three I don't know if the applicant has seen that um that's just my mistake from cutting and pasting from the other order see what happens when you say I'll do two orders they're the same because I can just use use them maybe maybe not too quick all right um 14 and one last one there I've just fixed all the that formatting anything else anybody else have anything on this one anybody on the platform no all right we're ready to uh close and review and uh approve I move that we close the hearing and approve the order of conditions for 46d Road Gordon second roll call Bob hi Le I Karen I Eric I Cheryl I and I vote I that one is [Music] approved all right done with the orders call where did we go next uh we go next to uh request for extensions um we have one two three four from CBI um I think I should read them individually okay okay so first one is zero clapin Landing 296 and 324 and 332 and 340 and 346 and 356 and 366 374 380 390 400 Shore Road CBI owner limited liability company map 16e and 16f Parcels 11b f13 11 F-1 9 a D3 and 28 E2 27 E3 20 26 E4 25 E5 248 E6 23 E7 I'm trying to do this without laughing I know doing well keep going okay we're snickering up9 20 E10 se10 3323 project proposed site improvements extension request for uh Crawford Land Management to continue working on the restoration plannings as the owner has phased to work out over several years the order expires 6424 this is the section second extension request I believe uh Sean Riley may be online no okay called him said he would be um and I also reached out to CBI to um Amy Howell who is is the deputy director of community service Recreation and beaches um asked them both to be appear I did get a confirmation from Kul that Shan would be online so he may he may be delayed but I'll tell you that um um these first three are are not particularly problematic they are they are all extensions um to allow for the continued growth of the uh planting the rest restoration plantings um and they all they all uh expire very soon the only one that is different is the the fourth one which has a doesn't expire until October and that's the one that's a little bit more of concern to us so my my inclination would be to go ahead and approve the first three and then continue on the fourth one until uh they can have somebody here to speak to it if that seems all righty then I can uh sorry okay so I can read the next the next two if you'd like and then we can just approve all three okay okay next one is zero CLA and Landing 296 324 332 340 346 356 366 374 380 390 400 Shore Road CBI owner limited liability company map 16e 16f parcels 11b f-13 11 F-1 9 A- D3 and 28 E2 27- E3 26- E4 25- E5 24 A- E6 23 E7 22 E8 21 E9 and 20 E10 the EP number se10 3323 Project Beast nourishment extension request for Crawford Land Management to continue working on restoration plannings as the owner has phased the work over several years the order expires on 61324 this is the second extension request next one nine CLA and Landing claen Landing LLC map 16e parcel 11e F6 se10 3319 propos Hardscape and sight improvements extension request for profit Land Management to continue working on restoration planning as the owner has phased the work oh over several years the order expires on 6 62 2024 this is the second extension request so the first one will be extended to 614 25 the second one 63 excuse me 61325 and the third one 66 2025 Okay so have a motion to approve those I move that we approve zero Claflin landing and all of that CBI um se10 d3323 for their second extension to June 15 June 14th 2025 I also move that we approve the extension for zero Claflin Landing CBI the second one has the same SE number SE 10-33 323 and this is the second extension to June 13th 2025 and I move that we approve an extension for nine Claflin Landing Claflin Landing LLC SE 10- 3319 this is the second extension to June 6th 2025 Gordon second roll call vote Bob leas I Aon hi Eric hi Cheryl I and I vote I so the those are approved all right Paul let's call let's do the fourth one and we'll continue that okay I'm just going to say all that 356 I thought that was very efficient Road CBI owner LLC map 16f Parcels 25 E5 248 E6 e number S10 3500 project proposed beach access staircase extension requested due to a shift in the infrastructure priorities within the resort and limited construction timelines to perform and schedule contractors to perform work the order expires on 10:28 2024 all right thank you um I know that we have some questions about um this proposed project and what a shift and infrastructure priorities means for it and whether there's still an intention to go forward forward with it and there's a couple of related issues that we'd like to discuss with them so we're going to continue it uh so that they have somebody present to address some of these so the next available hearing date is uh July the 10th and they don't doesn't expire until October so that's fine so motion to continue to I move that we continue 356 and 366 Shore Road CBI owner for the extension to an order of conditions to July 10th 2024 Gordon second Mo call vote Bob all Elise hi Karen hi Eric hi Cheryl hi and I vote I so that'll be continued okay all right Paul now what now do we have uh we have another extension request zero with a road AKA 63 shell Drive shell Drive development LLC map 14k parcel 15 w53 theep number SC10 3490 the project proposed construction of a single family home pool pool house boat house beach access stairway and Associated site improvements extension request is to continue native plant care and eradication of invasive plant species and to ensure mitigation planting have sufficient time to establish the order expires on six 16 2024 okay thank you [Music] um is there anybody here for zero Widow Road um the request was uh in writing and it does specifically reference ah Mr lonberger are you there yes uh yep just here in case um any of that needs to be reiterated the request is just specifically to give the plantings more time to establish the house took longer than expected to be built so the plants got installed a little bit later in the life of the order and they just need some more time okay we are happy to almost always happy to uh provide extra time for mitigation and restoration plantings I will note that the request was for an additional three years but under the chadam bylaw we are limited to three one-year extensions so we'll we can give you a one-year extension then you'll have to come back in another year and get another if you need that and then another we can only do it one year at a time understood okay any questions comments all right let's have a motion then to approve I move that we approve a one-year extension for zero Widow Road AA 63 shell drive this is the first extension to June 16th 2025 Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi Elise hi Karen hi Eric I Cheryl I and I vote I so that's extended see you back here in a year next one Paul last one for an extension is 12 112 woodcarver null T and Jeff Capello map 11d parcel f8 D number SC10 3492 construction of a plunge pool in patio habitat restoration on a Coastal Bank the extension request is for continued Beach nourishment and the order expires on 617 2024 okay um similarly to to Restoration plantings Beach nourishment is an important element of many of these kinds of projects on Coastal Banks make sure that there's adequate uh sand to provide uh sediment to the beach so that is normally something that we are happy to approve anybody have any questions or problems with it all right then let's have a motion I move that we approve a one-year extension for 112 would Carver n to June 177 2025 Gordon second roll call vote Bob leas I Karen I Eric I Cheryl I and I vote I so that's granted all right let's keep moving on like this all afternoon we'll be out of here yeah okay uh next on the agenda is a field change request 307 Bridge Street applicant David Stone map 16b parcel 16 F1 the EP number SC10 3534 the project propos repairs to an existing boat house pool deck and Landscape site improvements the field change request is to change 26 Diamond Pier support structures to concrete Sonet tubes to facilitate Construction of over the Coastal Bank stairs my understanding is that the diamond Pier uh will not support uh the structure given the topography and the slope okay is is there anybody on the platform to represent 307 Bridge Street I don't know they're all enjoying at the beach maybe hi sorry yes this is David Stone the project manager okay hello oh you're the one who okay so you wrote the letter so I think um my question is how looking at the at the site plan and the landscape plan the the pool decking that is supported by these uh this pro tubes doesn't seem to be particularly adjacent to the stairway why is it necessary why is that the the adjacency um what's driving this or is what Paul says that it's the it's the slope it's the grade of the of the area that's driving it yes so uh when it was originally designed the final slope um had not been evaluated because you know um we're going to make some changes do the grading and evaluate what the exact final slope is at that point um so now that we're here we realize that it's it's steeper than we anticipated and in order to put these Diamond peers in we'd have to do considerable amount of excavation to the bank to be able to um bring in a large excavator to dig out a big flat spot on in in in the bank everywhere where these Diamond peers are so at every platform on every landing on these stairways we have to dig a dig a flat spot into the bank um to put these Diamond Piers because they just don't function on a steep slope okay so now I'm starting to the light is going on for me and I I so this is this is supporting the stairway structure not the pool decking right the pool decking is is supported by Dam Pi okay but it's all ground I was I kept looking at it saying I don't see how this is uh yeah it's these it's the stairs okay my my my mistake so no no problem okay uh questions comments go ahead I have a I guess I have a com I guess I have a question and that normally we're we are told that diamond peers have less impact as compos as opposed to son sonit tubes and and we've seen them used fair amount in I guess I'm trying to recall and think back in time often you used in the for stairwells that go stairway stair stairs that go through uh martier and so forth so the only reason you're doing this is because of the steepness of the slope yeah yeah yeah it's not about the the environment that it's in um it's it's about the the angle of the slope so the diamond piers are basically a little set of concrete and it has four tubes sticking out of the bottom of it and those four tubes are at an angle so it sticks out um 45° below it in every direction and um with the steepness of the slope those tubes will be sticking out of the ground because the ground is is is steeper than the angle of the the pipe that's below the below the diamond Pier if that makes sense it might um they're fairly short um 45 degree angle studs if you want to call them that that they probably wouldn't support the structure very well right so it should have been Sun of tubes all along sounds like yeah it really should have um I think that was just an oversight on the design Engineers part but uh I mean it it they would they would support the stair structure if we brought an escavator in and dug in a bunch of flat spots on the bank we're just trying to we're trying to avoid that excavation okay all right thank you okay anyone else here there's a hand up on the platform I'm not sure whose it is is there somebody who go wishes to be recognized disappear disappeared okay an erand hand well all right somebody D is keeps look like that's him that's yeah that's just cuz he's breathing the microphone's picking up I got a quick question Jan sure um there's going to be excess soil right um dug up for the sauna tubes for the concrete uh where is that going to go well we it's it's likely going to be clay so that would likely be removed from the site um any top soil will be repurposed um on the site but below the below that it's all clay so we'll just remove it okay thank you okay I guess the the question that keeps coming to my head is would we have approved this had we known it was sonitus in the first place we would have made a difference I don't I don't remember the project well enough to even exactly think of it that way I think it was the least detail of the project that was causing us uh issues right there were plenty of others all right anybody else all right let's have a motion then to approve the field change request I move that we approve a field change request for three 7 Bridge Street Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi Lee hi Karen hi Eric hi Cheryl hi sorry I and I vote I so that's approved all right thank you David all right Paul so much we have a couple uh of notices and continuances next right two of them going to be continued uh notice of intent 162 Shore Road Tom and Michelle Jennings map 16d parcel 15-29 Eep number se10 3650 project removal of an existing dwelling and construction of a new dwelling located outside of the outter Aura relocation of the existing accessory building construction of an inground swimming pool in hardscaping abandonment of an existing septic septic system and installation of a new a excuse me IIA septic system restoration of an existing lawn with native plant species the applicant is requested a continuance through July 24th 2024 I move that we continue 162 Shore Road to the meeting on July 24th 2024 Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi leas hi Karen hi Eric hi Cheryl I and I vote I that's continued okay Paul next one next continuance is 108 Beach Plum Road R Paul the what uh dewier M 4D parcel 23 se10 3674 project demolition of an existing single family dwelling and cottage and construction of a new dwelling and cottage within land subject to Coastal storm Flowage the applicants requested a continuance to June 12th 2024 I move that we continue 108 Beach Plum Road to the meeting on June 12th 2024 for no of intent Gordon second roll call vote Bob Le hi Karen I Eric I Cheryl I and I vote I so that's continued okay thank you all right Paul let's move on to the next one uh next notice of intent for 70 Meadow View Road South Kyle and Patricia liic map 10d parcel 16 S15 D number SC10 3668 proposed addition proposed attached garage propos deck reconstruction including mitigation okay is there anybody online or in the hearing room for 70 Meadow View South where's that is a hand up Kyle is that I can't quite see because I'm yeah hi uh it's Kyle laac owner um my wife's online too I'm I'm assuming and hoping maybe that is in the room I don't see him online he is not okay all right well let's see what we let's see what we have because uh he did send us a bunch of material so I'll just note that uh we last heard this on May 8th we asked for a reduction in the number of Oaks proposed to be planted to create some more diversity and variety uh to add some Shad bush we asked to reduce the driveway to save the pine tree we asked for the filing of a variance request because uh the coverage is over 35% and we asked to eliminate uh one of the two proposed rinse stations we did receive revised materials The Oaks have been reduced to five and five shadbush have been added the second Rin station uh was removed the driveway was reduced the pine tree was saved and and uh there was a variance request um that cited the con ah there's that the U con the the constraints of the site and the steepness of the slope that that fronts the driveway as uh reasons that uh the design could not be shifted to uh reduce the coverage I think I've characterized all of that um so let me see already yeah we didn't we didn't need you that we just uh just anyway so you did a better job than I could that Elder G Southeast you went through all the changes that we've made we have pulled things back we have um done our best to to meet the the the 35% criteria but keeping that house there is a difficulty and uh Mr lissac really wants me to explain that that boat is on the neighbor's property down below and with that are there any questions okay questions question go ahead Bob um yeah I have a question uh that on the new planting plan um the oak that was going to remain by the driveway still has an X in it x x oh it does it does I missed that I'll take that out that's actually a pine tree right to me that's a pine yeah yes okay thanks that's all I have okay anybody else yeah do you have you don't go for Bob I have so actually that when we had the conversation last time about the The Oaks being too many Oaks I guess what I thought in my mind I guess it wasn't necessarily in your mind I should have been more communicative but what you did was get rid of some Oaks and replace those Oaks with shad bushes or service berries I thought you were another way of going to about this would been to increase the amount of mitigation area yeah because you're not replacing uh tree you're not replacing trees of the same you're not you're replacing overstory trees with th story trees in effect which is not what I was what I was expecting and we have increased the mitigation area true now up to 2800 square fet is that in compensation for not being able to replace overstory tree with overstory tree uh it's in compensation to fit everything in place without shadowing out the the shrub mitigation and was it not an option to increase the size of the mitigation area such that you could keep the same number of overstory trees so you'll notice on this plan I've drawn a a circle that is out there off to the right uh that's a 40 foot exterior radius which is a decent radius for a trailer to be able to be turned around and then I have a 30 deep um area from there back to the mitigation which is a a a reasonable parking space for a a trailer um in order to keep this viable as as trailer storage and so I increase the mitigation to that point and then fit into it the overstory trees and the understory Shrubbery and and tree and brush uh shrubs okay so I'm a little confused about what is the applicant's property and what isn't is it that it's all the applicants property but the association has some sort of rights to park there yeah there's been permissive use of that area for decades it was the 80s that the that the Basin was dredged and the material was placed here and there have been people using it since then okay being the newcomers to the neighborhood the Liss acts did not want to take that away from anybody but they also want to work with the commission and and how do we get everything to work together right so there's no there's no easement there's no no rights to use it or whatever it's just it's just customary traditional okay well it's always awful when somebody comes into a neighborhood and says this is mine and you can't use it anymore usually see that with the dingy storage well there's another there's another um way to look at this and that is from an environmental perspective the area should never have been used and still shouldn't be used and so if we were to be the cause of devoting more of that parking area to mitigation that wouldn't be on the applicants uh they it would not be their fault it would be our fault so that's the way I see this application is that we're not really well I guess that is how it struck me is that we are not really replacing tree for tree which is in our regulations and primarily it appears because of uh its use in this indas area for for parking not even by the applicant so that just seems like a mismatch to me from an environmental perspective um the other thing is in your application you said that let's see I I I'm going to read it out I'm on the wrong just I'm in the wrong one here hold on I read a section in your new materials that said God um the areas under the oak tree shall be planted with wild flowers and Native grasses to provide some habitat until nature changes the nature of the mitigation area I didn't quite follow the last part of that sentence these these trees going in are not going to be full-size trees we've specified based based on the cape C Cooperative Extension size so you're going to have wild flowers and grasses growing and then as the trees mature you're going to have a very shaded area underneath of them some things are going to grow you're going to get some spindly shrubs that will grow in there you're going to get some some grasses that will continue to grow but at first this is going to be a fairly Sunny area shaded from the from the west and from the south but it's still going to be more open until those trees mature yeah I get that so this is another another aspect to your visions that surprised me I thought that we were talking about how you know before with all the trees it' be very shady there and nothing would grow underneath but now you've you have fewer overstory trees but you've also changed what's under the trees to be what appeared to me to be sun-loving um plants is that right I mean you were talking wild flowers and you're talking grasses the mix would be sun and shade tolerant is what we were aiming for but obviously until those trees grow out you're going to have more sun in that area right and then once the trees grow out the nearby vegetation is going to be able to move in and and take over in the area I mean otherwise we're planting trees with vegetation now and then changing it over in 10 years to something that that's more appropriate for the conditions at that time you had Woody shrubber there before right yes and I was so I since you're adding more sun with fewer over story trees it seems like the the Shrubbery that you had already planned would have works better but you were you the commission were concerned that as those trees grow the Shrubbery would die that's when you had the eight oak trees there which you no longer have okay so it doesn't it doesn't really add up to me so anyway and also we mustn't forget that in our regulations there's the requirement to take care of the mitigation so if it's going to be you know that's why I read out your your wording until the nature changes the nature in that that could be P that could be interpreted a number of ways but the idea is that you maintain the mitigation and not let it just sort of take care of itself I've never assume that the Conservation Commission expects all of the mitigation to remain the same if if some of the plant material from from the the forest nearby decides to migrate over I mean other things are going to start to grow in these areas that's true unless main unless it's invasives then we want the applicant to keep the invasives out so anyway removed by everything went everything went a different direction than I expected that's all so I'm well it sounds to me like like what has happened is that he did he he both removed some of the Oaks to provide more sun and changed the nature of the plan plants to um a mixture some of which would perverse sun because that's what's happening with the removal of the Oaks um but I take this point that as the Oaks grow and they cast more and more shade there's going to be a change over in the in the what's growing underneath there um but that's I think that's aside from the obligation to keep invasives out of there perpetually I don't know that we impose we don't we certainly don't impose a a survival Beyond three years um partly in recognition of the fact that nature will do what Nature's going to do with it it will change it will change but we're putting by taking out the the Woody undergrowth you're you're you're reducing the diversity of the habitat you're putting wild flowers and grasses which cannot serve as a habitat for for mammals and nesting areas and so forth just becomes uh you know partially po pollinator Garden under some trees but anyway it just doesn't make any sense to me that's all I I I take your point but I think it's a hard Choice it's hard choices to be made across this how you how you balance out the uh the need of the ecosystem when you are creating a new ecosystem in a mitigation area um I don't plant yeah plant guys look down here to the plant guys um my my only thought is maybe uh is a since there's so much turnaround in that area maybe if the mitigation was bigger they'd run things over but is there how how about the possibility maybe of a split rail fence to uh separate the mitigation from the turnaround area um they are hiding in there but we are proposing Boulders every 8 feet okay on Center so 8 Feet's a little too narrow to get the um to get a trailer through so that'll keep people out of it so when they turn around that'll be their Limit Oh yeah yeah that's that's fine plus they want to bash up their trailer a little bit Yeah okay thank you other questions or comments that's okay well with all of that I guess we're ready to uh continue this for the writing of an order of conditions for it um July 10th that's certainly fine we do have Z in B field will be in front of the zoning board of appeals as soon as June 27 so that should work that should work perfectly okay all right let's go with July 10th I move that we continue 70 metav View Road South to the meeting on July 10th 2024 for an order of conditions oh I'm sorry madam Madam chairman I misspoke that I apologize it is not June 27 uh told so a July 10 date is probably acceptable but we may have to ask for a further continuance do you know that the date is it is it in I I do not I I recheck my notes and I do not have a definitive give us okay crystal said June 27th yeah we had been we had been told June 27th as well all right now that was what I had initially but I'm not certain that it's confirmed well just let us know and we can always continue it to uh the 17 I hope crystal is correct I hope that she is okay I hope she is we'll keep an eye on it and see whether it goes on the 10th or we push it further ahead that's fine uh you made the motion we're ready for a second Gordon second all right roll call vote Bob Elise hi Karen I Eric hi Cheryl I and I vote I all right thank you see you back here on the 10th and we'll see where we are at that point thank you so much thank you all right Paul uh what's next next on the agenda notice of intent 509 Riverview Drive Scott Barrett and Kimberly Summers map 7j parcel C60 the EP number SC10 3687 construction of access access stair over a Bank good afternoon David Clark Clark engineering and Mike from Blue pla design on behalf of uh Kim Summers and one second and and uh Scott Barrett who are sitting here um as stated let me just fold this up a little bit uh we're looking to uh permit a set of stairs over Coastal Bank on Muddy Creek um the stairs have uh been sighted in a location where we believe there was once a view corridor uh the house was built the original House was built in the in the 60s um and nearly all the houses along this stretch along the river had cleared areas uh to get views of the creek so we chose a location where no major trees had to come out except there are a couple at the beginning um that are in the way um the stairs will be elev elated uh a minimum of I believe 2 feet uh above the bank so so we can get some sunlight to the bank and then good chance to uh keep some ground cover under there um because it's the riverfront area um there are overlapping performance standards uh uh we feel that uh we meet the criteria for the riverfront area and that uh this is a lot that was in existence prior to uh 1994 so it uh the commission may uh issue an order conditions of up to 5,000 square feet of alteration within the riverfront area and I believe we're under that um as far as a Coastal Bank uh it's a Coastal Bank by definition um we do have Muddy Creek there um the flood plane does cross over Route 28 and and uh and this section well the whole section of Muddy Creek is within the flood plane so there is technically a Coastal Bank there um just to the north of this property the the slope Peters out so it's less than 4 to one so the Coastal Bank is the same as the as the flood plane excuse me um but just as you come onto the property uh it it steepens to to um less than 4 to one and that slope continues all the way nearly up to the where the house is um so the idea is to do the minimum amount of work necess necessary to get the support structure in um we found in the past that in this partic in this type of situation where it's not an active Coastal Bank uh it's quite stable it's heavily treed uh on both sides uh that simply putting the 4x6 PTs in in a u 36in excavation um putting some gravel on the bottom and back filling it with uh a Blu Stone uh construction of uh engineered fill uh and compacted is is sufficient to support the structure so we don't need concrete peers um it is it could be the option of of the installer to use uh the uh Diamond peers in the situation but I think that's probably Overkill um lugging those large concrete structures down the slope and installing them um I think it can be done with simple excavation um blue flax is on board to provide a mitigation and uh restoration plan and uh Mike's here to present that uh if you like to hear that about that now all right thank you before we do I just want to clarify so you said so all the excavation and for the supporting beams is going to be done by hand I I I I don't think it's necessary to get equipment down that well I don't think you can I mean I mean I maybe but we'll to be safe but hand working is going to be feasible in that location okay okay hello Mike hi Mike Tannis blue flax design um the property is covered by Forest a very healthy oakpine forest with a dense canopy shrub and ground cover layer uh we're mitigating for the construction of the stairs right on top of the Coastal Bank in the 50-ft buffer the this area has invasive plants including multiflora Rose Oriental bittersuite and English ivy and also compared to the rest of the property this area has less of a shrub and ground cover layer so our plan is to remove the invasives and replant with uh with shrubs including witch hazel and also excuse me here I should have had this open and then low Bush blueberry and winter green to establish more of a ground cover um four trees are being removed and we're replacing with 12 Trees two beaches are going where the benches are being removed along the foot path and the other 10 trees will be up in the mitigation area uh where the stairs are constructed there's a dense ground cover layer of low Bush blueberry and black Huckleberry that will be allowed to regenerate and fill back in the Disturbed areas any open Disturbed areas we will shade or we will seed with a shade tolerant seed mix of grasses and wild flowers and that's basically the plan thank you so um David you had started by off by saying that this location was chosen um at least partly because it meant the fewest trees coming out is that so four there's no way of there was no other location that would not require the removal of at least these four you see we we we kind of walked the property first and then and and picked an area and and we located the trees within 30 ft on both sides 20 ft on both sides and the rest of the the slope on both sides is is more heavily treed than this okay okay and and Mike so aside from the four trees um are there Woody shrubs natives that have to be removed when this goes in um there will be some that will likely have to be cut back to access uh you know bringing equipment down and stuff but except where the supports are going in the the root Zone should be Rel relatively undisturbed so they should be able to regenerate and come back okay so so the shrubs that are proposed are not replacements for ones that are having to be removed this is in addition to allowing those to regenerate yes these uh 20 50 or so new shrubs are going to be added up at the top though but not not down along the where the stairway is proposed to be no it's pretty it's pretty dense in there I'm not I it's pretty dense and um it's mostly black Huckleberry and low Bush blueberry and that that tends to grow back pretty quickly okay if the roots are undisturbed and also it's a North facing bank with a lot of tree canopy I don't think we could put anything in there that would do better than what's already there okay and there's no issue of of uh any kind of uh channeling or anything that could cause any erosion um when the vegetation is Disturbed for the construction no I I don't foresee any of that okay all right questions where you are proposing your mitigation um I assume there's probably some invasives in there yes and so I assume you're removing all of that right yes uh how are you going to Pro protect that area from the rest of the hill going down that probably has some of the same invasives the rest of we didn't see any invasives on that Hill except along the top all right oh that's even better yeah no it's a great site I have a question go ahead D um yeah I walked actually walked down there it's the perfect path to get down there um the uh the trees in the water you plan on getting them out of there trees in the water trees in the water yeah the dead trees that are actually that's on Foundation that's conservation Foundation yeah okay um you know this is one of those rare occasions that I I I don't see the the benefit of uh the mitigation unless this is something the applicant wants to do I mean there's no invasives you have to excavate to put in I mean it's it's it's wild um you know I personally I just don't see the necessary the need to do any mitigation myself you know unless the applicant is wants to do this uh because you're Excavating the area to put something back so you're digging out all the critters in there and and and taking out the some of the good underlying uh soil and Moss and then you're going to plant I mean it's it's it's grown over the top of the bank it's not it's not like it's been mowed it's it's brush has been thrown down the hill um that that's that's that's all I got to say that's where I'm coming from I think Teresa has a I I do I I mean I agree that the this site is a really healthy site with a great native plant Community there's just a smattering of invasive vegetation so we could potentially just selectively remove the invasive vegetation that's in there obviously within that area between the deck and the top of Coastal Bank where it has been a little bit more Disturbed that's where we're seeing the invasive vegetation whereas on the slope itself with the exception of the foot path that Eric you just pointed out and then where the benches are that where previously somebody was accessing that bank I do think the stairs will provide a more stability for the homeowners to have access to enjoy the views of the creek from down low but um and then under the mitigation requirements we're required to replace the trees at 3 to one so we're squeezing in and shoehorning in trees um and then trying to add some ground cover um up in that area between the deck and the um top of Coastal Bank but I suspect that the homeowners would be more than happy to reduce the amount of mitigation that we're proposing if the conservation incre uh invasive removal instead well the invasive we're covering the invasive vegetation in the area that's shaded in green on our plan and really that's the only invasive vegetation that we noted on on this site it's it's very minor compared to what we see on many sites that we're presenting okay that's that's that's I just want to bring that across thank you thank you thank you anybody else down here Bob I got a couple of things uh I noticed a couple of Kayaks at the top by the house were you considering a kayak rack maybe down below David um we weren't but um they're going to sit in beneficial um but certainly we wouldn't put it on the uh on the uh Foundation property but uh maybe maybe at the end of the stairway uh maybe with a some kind of a rack or something ATT attached or something like that um I think that's is that something hello you need to come up to the microphone you could be famous for so I'm sorry about that yes so they they they would like to keep the kayak so maybe putting a kayak rack at the end on the landing would make sense um again not storing Kayaks at all on the chadam conservation Foundation property and just for the record I did speak with Julie Baka um from chadam conservation Foundation about this and the only thing that they've asked is that we um invite them to the pre-work onsite meeting with Paul Whitman when it's time for that okay and uh so I didn't make it down I was afraid of the ticks worse than that to worry about so anyway between the end of the stairway and the river that's uh conservation Foundation property yes is so you have a path is that it there isn't a path um so uh and we're not asking to construct a path on Foundation property so they'll take the path of lease resistance when they when they launch The Kayaks okay but they but it's pretty level so you won't create any erosion in time well right there at the property line it's fairly level but um there is another bank down to the river okay uh and the path at the top of the stairway to the uh where the fish pond is uh that's just going to be like a grassy type of path yeah that'll just be a natural you not even grassy it's just like Leaf litter and it'll just be a place where no plants are planted where they could walk but nothing formal okay um the size of it is probably going to be a bone of contention usually we uh approve three feet this is you're calling for a 4 foot wide stairway um it's the maximum width that the that the zoning bylaw allows which I think is 4T from outside of post to outside of post and the bench areas or the two Landings well there's another Landing here but where the benches are or the bench in the middle and then at the bottom of the stairway how how big are those areas those platforms [Music] are give me a second okay they are 8 by4 I believe 8 by4 yeah we put a bench there just because uh it's such a long run um I'd like to think the applicant is Young and spry because a classmate of Kim so uh yeah they call them rest stops but uh this is this is their home for quite a few decades and and so they're they're planning on needing a place to to rest in the future so um so with Bob's question is there any any possibility to reduce it to three feet the the width I don't think it makes a material change to the the scope of the project um it it does make a difference to the applicants I was saving a lot of money on the mitigation and then I'm asking you know I'm asking for a little give and take here you know I'm not you haven't seen anything you haven't save it yet we just approved I'm just I'm just going to jump in on those people we just approved two projects with restriction of three- foot wide stairs so we got to be consistent about it I mean two people can usually walk side by side in a three-foot well one thing that occurs to me is that if you're not carrying kayaks up and down if you were I could see maybe the need for 4 feet to fit a person two people carrying a kayak if you uh if we find a way and I would I would advocate for a rack that's maybe attached to the structure at the bottom not a freestanding one that that hangs off the rails at the bottom y then you don't need the four feet to 3 ft would be more than enough and that's that is typically now our standard and I think we're going to put it in our regulations I I was actually just going to speak to the exact opposite of that is even occasionally carrying a kayak down this set of stairs this steep I think you will need that extra space to carry a even a very lightweight um uh just a recreational kayak not one with a Rudder or anything like that so that would be my only comment on that so the 48 in is from outside of post to outside of post set inside the post are the are the joys for the um for the stairs so the actual walking surface is only 41 in 41 36 41 so it's a 5 Ines two and a half two and a half um well it sounds like he come to an impass here on the you know like to move this along if we could the 3ot to the you know the 5 in we're talking about give me a second I mean we we have to have we have to have reasons for saying you have you get three feet and you can have four feet right exactly I we have our standard is 3T right and if if if a reason to have four feet is a kayak everyone's going to say they have a kayak down at the bottom so well the kayak at the bottom so they don't have to but they want to carry them back up certainly an improvement before but they won't be right which I think they were interested in we would like to keep going with the 41 in let's let's see what uh let's see what the reaction is Le what do you think is it three feet written in our bylaws no so that's just our standard right now yes and for consistency that's why we're looking at it yes yes we just did two on Shore Road well I get that I was just trying to split the ha hair a little bit um I don't know how to feel about 5 in I think if it's standard we should be consistent well unless there's a good reason not to be but I haven't heard a good reason just joined right Mary I I just get the only thing I don't know if it's uh relevant but the Ada standard is 42 Ines for width what is that oh 8 American yeah Ada I don't know that that's relative here but it is defined as being 42 in I I will say three feet feels narrow to me I I I know we need to be consistent but three 3T feels narrow we settled but I'll go with the rigs yeah maybe because we should not we should not uh we should not require something that is not compliant with Ada okay maybe we'll put that in our regulations and you know those who have 36 inches thank you for doing that but if you need to make them bigger come back um uh this has to go to zoning board obviously um Bill if you're still on the line uh if you sent me an email saying when it was I I wasn't paying attention do you have a date for CBS if I if I could Madam chairman bfield respons David's question no we we do not have a date set yet uh will presumably be in July we have filed however oh at least it's filed they have filed okay um all right so let's just um continue with uh what what questions or changes we have other than adding the the kayak rack to the design um yeah just just to follow up Eric's earlier reprieve for your mitigation I I I don't I don't see it the same way I it's a lot of impact the stairwell the stairs that are being put there have impact for insulation and also they' be adding a lot of shade down there so I I like the mitigation plan that was proposed and I I had no I had no comments about it other than good job and I would like to see it stay just a quick question is is there any lighting planned on these stairs we don't judging by the last two I'm not even ask I had to ask I had to ask okay um anything else Bob I see your finger um the two platforms uh the one at the bottom and the one in the middle can you reduce that size down to six feet maybe 6x4 why the why the 8T um just trying to reduce middle we'd like to get that resting bench on there um and then the lower one um just wanted a it's a long stretch and uh we just wanted something that size to to land on um and if we hang the the kayak rack on the stairs um it would be most likely on the north side of the stairs and that would be a location where you would be standing and pulling the the kayak off the rack so I think it's needed at the lower level too I think that's right if you're going to do put the rack there okay thank you you need a platform to stand on while you're hoisting it up anything else questions comments at least is coming up with some try to look just seeing different numbers I think so we need to nail that down all right well we we're going to continue anyway so we have some time at the moment we're we're inclined to we'll do some research and see so that uh we if we need to change our standard to be complying with ADA requirements we will do that um and um ah I know I saw a note um materials so the support structure the framing is acq or non-treated yes okay and the decking is um we did we specified wood uh but um I thought I saw a composite somewhere I did I don't remember where did I see that I made a note and said oh yeah it does say composite um so what's the commission's position on that these days uh I I think in the work protocol I did specify that uh there' be no cutting of uh materials uh within the construction zone and it would all have to be done out in the driveway uh in the staging area just so we keep uh treated sawdust and uh out we're going to want to see that all that all the cutting is done off site off site at least in the out of the any buffer zone the driveway is out of the 100 foot yes it is so you're fine there yep and um speaking of the work protocol uh Ted Keon called me this afternoon or this morning and said Renee noticed in the construction protocol that I mentioned catwalk um as access to the catwalk uh so that will that will be that will be changed to stairs so yeah that uh raise some eyes brows upstairs when they read that thank you Renee for catching that all right so what do we is it Timber what is the the decking we specifying uh composite for the for the Treads so Bob yes composite meaning plastic yeah so it's the PVC encapsulated uh composite uh not the the first generation of uh composite that uh really uh it's better plastic it's been replaced for lots of good reasons uh new improved plastic okay um so it it's quite durable um i' I've had it at my house for 12 years now and uh oh yeah I've got some too I I admit so but anyway this is not going to be over water right correct yeah yeah so that's the difference that's where I that's where I go nuts okay all right so you probably want to see this one more time or you make your comments to zoning board yes we have some things we have to look at and arrive at a consensus or find do a a straw vote about the width and and requirements so uh you haven't filed yet um we have the the 10th of July M okay okay I move that we continue 509 riverv viiew drive to the meeting on July 10th 2024 Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi Elise hi Karen hi Eric hi Cheryl I Mary I and I vote I so that's unanimous back here thank you very much I'd like to make a request because there's there's few people in the audience who want to speak I would like if it was possible to have a five minute break yes we may have a five minute break yep it is uh 2:28 we'll take five minutes please and uh we will be right back yeah she very e e e e e e okay we are we're back all right Paul are you back back with us yes I am all right if you want to uh lead us into the next one please please uh we are at what zero cross wi now yep okay uh notice of intent zero crosswind Farm Road Joseph and Geral Lio and Hana you map 10j parcel 17A lp36 D number se10 3688 the project is propose single family dwelling thank you good afternoon everyone good afterno for the record Hannah radit Wetland scientist with BSC I also have the green cards if they're needed for the um abutter notifications oh um I brought them just in case I don't think I've been in front of you all in a very long time so I didn't know if they were needed I can take them and normally uh yeah they'll go upstairs to the office for the file okay we've also got them scanned so we could just send them via email that way you don't have paper flopping around than you very much let's let's we do that so I'll go ahead and introduce the project yes pleas um what's proposed at this site is a single family dwelling with Associated sitework utilities which include a Title 5 septic system and also an access driveway so um as you can see on the plan that's up on the on the stand right here I sort of highlighted the areas that are at the front those are the areas that are proposed as um mitigation which I'll get into later the dwelling is back here and has been placed in the farthest corner of the lot as it can be with all set backs taken into consideration you have to stay your stay on your microphone sorry about that you need you need your arm needs to be like two feet longer and then gota ah well I've already done that pointing I'll behave now um so the dwelling has been pushed as far back into the corner of the lot as it can be um uh meeting all the setback requirements for the site the jurisdictional resource areas on this site include um AC which is associated with Pleasant Bay which comes off of Ryder Cove the AC boundary for this site is based off of a 100t buffer from the 10t elevation which reaches almost to the back of the site um in addition there is um salt marsh on the edge of Ryder's Cove as well as Coastal Bank which Rises about to the edge of the roadway um that being Route 28 which separates the site from Ryder's Cove as well as land subject to Coastal storm Flowage which only comes up to a small corner of the site sort of in the Southeastern Edge um for impacts associated with this project there will be no impacts within the 0 to 50ft buffer to salt marsh or Coastal Bank only limited grading and a small portion of the driveway as I mentioned before are proposed within land subject to Coastal storm Flowage um additional work on the site that falls within the 50 to 100 foot buffer zone to salt marsh and Coastal Bank involves various site clearing um the driveway a portion of the dwelling um but the septic system will be kept out of those buffer zones entirely as I mentioned before AC covers the majority of the site so the AC has incurred the most impacts what should be known about this site however is it's currently a large maintained lawn um it's not a native vegetation there are a few large trees which are noted on the front of the property which will remain in place but the majority of the lot save for the back corner where you can see sort of a cloud edge around where the dwelling is is a sparsely vegetated Red Cedar uh forested Edge behind that are some larger um oak trees um so what is proposed on this site will not be changing the characteristics of the site dramatically this is uh due to the proposed mitigation that we are intending to place along the majority of the inner Aura of salt marsh and Coastal Bank as well as a portion of the outer Aura this mitigation planting area involves 950 sare F feet of shrub plantings so that's the pink area in that top Corner in the north as well as that uh other pink area in the South corner and the green area all between represents about 5,505 Square ft of native uh planting Meadow which is to be planted with New England Wetland plants conservation and Wildlife mix this will be planted around the edges of the trees and will be Li lied mowing uh for its the lifetime of this property um what's anticipated and I realized I didn't include this in the application is that mowing would be done either in um early to late April or early to late September this avoids the May to August nesting period and also a vital time for insects on the site included within this application was a variance request the variance request included uh proposed work within the outer Aura of salt marsh and Coastal Bank to construct this dwelling the utilities the clearing and the grading as well as proposed work within the AC the driveway is also a matter that we requested a variance from the driveway position really can only go there without um Crossing that inner Aura from the resource areas and unfortunately it cannot be impervious due to the steepness of that driveway we have already um sought for relief from the zba and that has been granted from my understanding this application was submitted for zba review and will be shortly uh submitted for um their approval uh so it's my understanding it's in front of them right now so I unfortunately don't have any more answers other than the relief from the driveway um I believe that covers the important parts of this project sorry that was a lot at once so I'll go ahead and open up to the Commissioners with any questions they might have all right thank you very much I'm just looking to see um what the what the zoning letter says um while I'm looking for that let me open I'll open it to questions from commission members let's start down here Elise do you have any what re what will be the um driveway what will the driveway be um consisting of I believe asphalt okay so you did say impervious I needed to make sure I said that right impervious I don't know if there's any room for perious pavement it's not my field of expertise we can certainly look into it with our engineer um but my understanding is at at worst case it has to be um paved asphalt due to the uh steepness of the driveway okay that's my main question right now um are you planting any trees over here are you planting any trees in the for mitigation no trees are proposed as mitigation on the site however the applicant um the applicants who are in the audience with me would like to say that they want to maintain as many trees on the site as possible so the existing site condition is about 80 75 to 80% Meadow and the large trees that are at the front of the property I'll not talk while I point so there's those three up there which also in the photo log includes one and some trees along the backside might be able to be spared but the hope for this site is to keep it as a characteristic Wildlife Meadow rather than introducing trees all right it looked like to me where the house is going but I can't it wasn't staked properly to to determine where the house was going to be there were a bunch of stakes that had some some some some things on them I couldn't interpret them they were the house is a funny shape so they were I saw the Ste that could have been complicated because it's a sort of a plush shape there also were pink on some trees you're saying no trees are coming out no I think a lot of trees no tree they they're hoping to maintain as many trees as possible so how many how many do you think have to come out because there's a lot of trees in the area where that house is going I don't have a number on how many trees are we need that because you do need to replace the trees that come out okay that's part of our regulations um yeah when you have just within jurisdictional resource areas correct right yeah yeah correct of course and and we have our regulations whenever you take a look at it will tell you that trees coming out within the even the ndz the inner Aura need to be replaced at a higher ratio yeah than trees coming out in the outer ARA so there's some subtleties there would that change if we're dealing with replacing trees within a resource area because AC is really the only area that a clearing is anticipated Within all right there's um the Pointer's right on the uh easel there you see the pointer on I was just reading at the number it's a 1,300 square ft of clearing within um AC so that doesn't have a total amount of trees that's just an area that is covered with some trees has canopy cover um but that is not in um any of the other buffer zones just AC but within the 0 to 50 our ndz if you take a tree tree out to have to be placed someplace to replace those think everything's going to be in the outer Aura it looks like yeah and the outer Ora it's a one to one that's what we're saying is depending on where these trees are located and I didn't I don't think I saw the 50 buffer and the 100 marked I didn't see that either yeah it was it was not properly Stak so it's a little difficult to tell what was going on cuz they're all pink I have a question so but let me just let me finish finish B's question we all so yes we just need to know how many trees in their size and species they're coming out within the the buffer zone which is the GU in your case a 50 to 100 foot border to to Wetland yes and my question was there's no tree removal proposed within buffer zones only within a resource area itself within AC but there are trees that are marked it's on the easel oh on the easel yeah behind it behind on the back leg there it is there you go I thought it was like a electronic thing sorry no um so this is our 100ft buffer to Coastal Bank right and wet uh salt marsh is further up it's sort of faded but it's here tree clearing starts here you see this sort of Cloudy area so that is outside of all these buffer zones so the AC which is here limits of AC so that is proposing to clear trees from this all right so you're saying you're saying no trees being removed to from the buffer zone I I understand that might make it harsher I just wanted to to ask the Commissioners how much perhaps that would change if it was a tree removed within AC rather than buffer zone well as far as AC is concerned I'm not sure that we have any we don't have tree replacement we don't have performance standards for the AC uh it was my understanding that AC is considered a resource area that is protected and and therefore impacts to it are seen as the same as other jurisdictional resource areas specific standards yet oh just for AC okay for AC so and we should we tried we did try we got I did not go where anyway yeah um there is certainly space for tree placement if that is a concern so now that I put this down uh this area along here could certainly um receive trees I think right now it's relatively sparse there's a tree canopy line over here off the property this is quite small so in looking from above it kind of seems like there's trees over here on the property but there's there's doesn't seem like there are so more trees could be planted here or even sort of at the edge here um so there is there is room for tree placement excellent so hopefully we'll see some the my other main question well first of all why is this being mowed is this is this an undeveloped lot um I wonder if the applicants might be able to answer that question come up to the micro been for as long as I've known yeah yeah I mean is it a we'll he you could just State your names yeah yeah I'm uh Joe jalo one of the property owners and I'm H yor so basically yeah this uh these three lots on Crossman Farm the existing house and the two vket lots um basically a long cross When approaching 28 are I've been in my family since the mid 70s and the only house that's been built the only lot that was developed was a vacation home for my family for you know the last 40 years and my great aunt towards the end of her life basically spent her Summers here and just had the entire thing mowed actually by the neighbor North chadam landscape uh he just you know comes down the road and mows the entire thing and quite frankly I'd be happy to let it all grow wild uh so can I that's great news also can I can I add something here I like to talk talk about something positive a little bit um and that is I think it's great that it's going to be a meadow to me a meadow is worth a lot um so how much of an area you proposing the meadow is that just beyond the proposed uh straw limit so that's yeah it's basically the edge of the straw limit so it's 5,505 Square ft um so the only cutouts are those um pink shrub areas which could be swapped for I mean it'll be a wonderful change cuz the whole corner there is just Green Green Lawn both not just that one all the way down it's just all it's all green it's a lawn right down to the road mhm yeah so the idea is to extend this basically from the limit of work line which is indicated by the sediment controls all the way to the edge of the roadway and the only thing other thing I noticed is I don't know how it worked this mitigation um but the two different sites of mitigation you know it's got to be put together and then maybe contiguous with something else but having mitigation out there by the road except I don't know where you're going to be able to put it uh but to have the two separate mitigations should be really one and it should be try to contiguous with some other growth somewhere um right rather than on the road so we could cut out the the shrub area that's at the end of the driveway and extend that as uh Meadow and then if it's in the jurisdictions of either the zero to the 50 or the 50 to the 100 to have it contiguous with something else to to make it larger right the the existence of a state highway cutting off the resource areas the Coastal Bank and the salt marsh means that putting mitigation along the highway doesn't do them a damn bit of good so um I I I I get the idea that you want to usually Place mitigation as close as possible to the resource area but in this case 28 just makes that um pointless and my understanding was it would also act as a buffer refer to storm water between the site and the um well it depends on what's planted there that's what you know you you do want some sort of a of a of a buffer zone but before the the water storm water would get to 28 because once it gets there it's just going to run across and pick up all the pollutant that are on and don't write it yeah so inter trying to trying to create a way to to stop that storm water flow the best way is with vegetation I don't know whether meow be grow meow is going to be the densest root mat I would think would be from a meadow which is why we had intended to place it that way um but it is it is tough with a site with contiguous um because on along this side obviously we have the roadway and then this as well and then this is sort of like an up blend mixed mostly red cedar and then maintained lawn on the far side we don't really get to our Upland Forest until back here MH which is on the far side um there aren't too many plants that will take a saltwater hit yeah okay go ahead sorry this is still Bob's question yeah sorry Bob all right the um on on the subject of wildf meadow the thing the thing that was taken aback about was that it's going to be mowed what is the point of mowing so mowing is necessary to keep the area as a Meadow New England really wants to be Forest even if it's it would have to be way down by the salt marsh if it was to stay as it exposed grassland cuz it would be subjected to that Coastal storm um influence but the areas on that slope would quickly fill in with shrubs and trees and become a forest if it's not mowed however this um mowing scheme would be limited to only once or twice a year and shouldn't be impactful to the species that are using it most most nesting Birds usually start especially on the cape which is maybe a little later around miday and extends to around mid August so if they plan for mowing to keep this as a was to be to mow it no later than the end of April and then mow it no earlier than say the beginning or the middle of September that would have the least amount of impacts on the insects the birds and also the mammals that use that area well I guess I mean if you feel like it has to be mowed that would that would be true but I most mitigation that we see and approve is even even including while flower Meadows they're not mowed ever so I don't know I don't know if I agree with the premise that it needs to be mowed in order to maintain it you're yeah but you're not making a wildflower Meadow you're just letting it grow to a meadow correct so this is going to be um tilled because currently it has uh grass seed and then loomed and seeded with New England um it's called a conservation and Wildlife mix it does have flowers in it but it's at least half made up of native grasses so it'll become more of a grassland than say a meadow it's not necessarily going to be a field of flowers that you go out and pick for a bouquet it's going to be kind of a mixture um but keeping this with just those species and not having the interruptions of shrubs and trees it certainly would be most helpful to maintaining it as a meadow to have it mowed and I understand that these mitigation areas aren't supposed to be tampered with but this has the benefit of maintaining it as the habitat that we're aiming to keep not necessarily just as a view corridor but also as an area that can be sustained as a meadow in perpetuity wow that I mean that that's first class but I you know also it'll Meadow on its own I mean it'll just turn to Meadow on its own yeah uh without doing that I mean I know what you're saying that's like the first class way to go but that's that's that's a big job um and uh from that the fact that you're mowing you're you're killing everything there and even if you're killing even if you're doing an off season you're it's not a mitigation area so you're you're adding about 1100 square feet to the outer R in terms of coverage um so that means you need an equivalent amount of mitigation area if you're coming close to that I think you have 900 and something in in actual formal mitigation areas defining your plan but you know you need to make those equivalent coverage mitigation need to be the same but and and so but then outside of that you're proposing this Meadow how how high what sort of view height do you need from the house the house is going to be built on a hill right so you don't do you need to have low growing Shrubbery in order to have a view that you want of the of the water no I'm not saying that this needs to be in place to that for them to have a view I'm just saying the the characteristics of the site are currently a mode grass area with lawn grasses and yes it is a disturbance and a removal of vegetation killing but these seed mixes will germinate within especially if they're placed early in the spring within a few weeks this area will be completely covered in a very dense mat of this vegetation with um flowering species throughout the year and it won't it won't be a drawback it should be seen as a benefit to this area and I understand that the Commissioners don't see this as a contiguous area for the resource area but it does provide a significant buffer between the property and the resource areas while also improving wildlife habitat which yes it's it's a bit cut off by the roads but there is area behind this house which is naturally vegetated forested where um species could come in and out and utilize this Meadow yeah I it's an improvement over grass there's no doubt about that but there are different types of mixes and some mixes include perennial native shrubs for example that grow this high and you don't have to mow it in fact you shouldn't mow it and it provides actual Habitat to mammals whereas a wildflower Meadow doesn't really provide habitat it provides a food source for pollinators that's about it it does provide habitat there's native not compared not compared to um a sort of a a low growing shrubby habitat I understand that but I think it provides a different type of habitat that you don't find very commonly across the cape and just because it doesn't provide the same values as a shrubby habitat with in the forest doesn't mean it doesn't provide unique habitat qualities what would be living there oh all kinds of insects and pollinators can be using that area there's birds that nest in the fields small mammals that would be burrowing an area it's uh it is certainly small it's not like a very large meta portion um that could be used by a large population but there's all kinds of species that can be using this in living sure okay I I'll I'll grant you that some species can make a living there but if you were to make it a true mitigation area with shrubs U that would support a wider variety of of Wildlife and if you wanted to be that sort of habitat then that would be the way to go and I think you have an opportunity here to do that instead of something that you just mow so with the introduction of shrubs within this area that we would also plant with this Wildlife mix that would be seen as a mitigation area as long as it's never mowed and has shrubs certainly if you disturb it it can't be considered mitigation yeah but I'm not saying that you need to make all that into a mitigation era because you've already you're already providing almost enough mitigation area with those two blobs that you may combine somewhere on the property the rest of it is in a sense discretionary it's not required and which is good that you're doing that but I'm simply suggesting that you could do it better if you're going to do it make it a better habitat that's all so I'll stop being that to death okay cherl so Bob I'm just curious but I I think I'm confused now I was I I think I knew what was going on to start with but now I'm not totally sure so what you're suggesting that if they combine those two mitigation areas that was that was that's a good idea but then they could leave the rest they could make a meadow that they can mow no it's not I'm not saying it's not the mitigation if it's just a I mean because it is discretionary yes I'm not I'm not arguing all I'm saying is there's there's an opportunity to make a better habit totally understand that but I just was curious are they allowed to mow there because of the 50 not mitigation yes okay that was my question once a year I was spending a little bit so thank you um just just for my experience uh if you have a meadow it's it's healthy to mow it once a year it's healthy to mow it once uh usually in the fall I don't know about September maybe early October um and uh you know I I I I I see a positive to this I mean I I look at these [Music] bankingsales on them um every six feet 10 ft apart I mean this is and plus this is by the road so if you have high vegetation there's more chance of animals to run out on 28 versus you know this is this is uh well it's true where this is smaller or if it's Bur birds or if it's insects uh I mean this to me this it's a positive to have a meadow I I really think so it's it's certainly better than uh everywhere else in the area um and to take the mitigation out of there uh and put it contiguous with with other growth so when salt water comes nothing's going to be better than a meadow to take care of the salt water um that's that's you know that's that's my opinion I agree too I like the idea a meow there and um I think you know historically we have had things where that they I'm sorry I'm having something in my throat um that we mow you know the pilgrims did it we've done it historically here that once a year they go out and they hay the the salt marshes and things like that so I think it's a good idea so um if we were to redesign the mitigation planting area so that it meets uh closer to what is expected for the standards um my understanding is just just taking all this information into account we should move this area over to here sort of expand this because this is the closest we can get to naturally vegetated areas on the site and basically focus our efforts on on this and what's proposed now is to have grading up until here and I imagine that this also means clearing will end around here um but this could also be planted um with with shrubs as well um so we would have our mitigation area basically be like this and we will call this I guess just a meadow and not a mitigation area because that's doesn't meet the standard yeah we usually use the word restoration restoration okay because it's lawn removal and you're restoring a a natural um ecosystem in place of a of of an unnatural lawn okay um and I did speak with the applicants just before this discussion and they said they hate lawn they don't want to be treating it they don't want to be irrigating it they would rather have more of this Meadow so we also considered taking this edge of the meadow and bringing it up to the edge of the driveway to extend all the way down there so that would extended another 7 or 800 feet of um Meadow on the site um just to add a larger area of buffer okay questions other questions Bob uh this sycamore maple uh which is uh the big tree M by crosswind Farm Road yep uh that's going to seed you know it's an invasive so it's going to seed into that Meadow I don't want to say meow I don't want to say anything right now the meow into the area techn restoration restoration restoration area that's a good that's good okay so anyway it's in Decline as well MH so what what about removing that reallying thepray will be very s there is an osprey pole nearby and I think it does use that it just likes to sit in that tree but but you're right the tree is half dead um yeah and if it's invasive be girdled into just wait till it's all dead right yeah be yeah that'd be cool you can wait until it's all dead and then cut it and leave it as a snag I was saying they could even girdle it now to kill it oh that's such a brutal way of K my God yeah but what I what I was going to say is the house where it's situated now the new house where it's going to be you're going to be removing some of those red Cedars correct mhm you don't know the number yet I don't have the number but if you uh where were you thinking we're going to need some tree replacement so where would you be putting those new trees um so my my best guess since we're going to have survey go back out to the site to locate all these Cedars and any of the trees that are going to be removed within jurisdictional resource areas I'm going to also have them check to make sure that they had their canopy accurate here because if this is indeed bare then they could be put in here they could be extended in this area because it doesn't have to be low shrubs we can use red seeders and extend them along this it'll add a little bit of privacy um and ex extend that sort of contiguous connection that would be the area that I would think would work at most okay um and the lawn is going to remain just Cape Cod uh on the left side of the driveway is there correct is there lawn no it's it's it's a nice breath of fresh air no patios no no swimming pool um no uh fire pit and uh hot tub outdoor kitchen um and the really honestly to stop the only other question I had was uh let's see the foundation plants uh around the house uh in our jurisdiction um they would have to be 75% native yep I have just sent the uh Cape Cod Cooperative Extension list to the applicants for them to use as their U planting plan okay you don't have that yet oh the Landscaping plan is that a requirement uh for this okay understood and I don't know I don't know we uh about the sycamore maple I'll I'll leave it at that but I I know we've gone both ways so sometimes we've had them removed and other times we've had them remain so uh since the tree is in Decline I tend to have it removed and maybe even plant some red cedars in that corner of the property and but that's my thought on it that uh you and you have good rapport with the eldes right because you have to have permission to have access on crosswind farms uh what I don't know what that means un cross that that road that's the the property is crosswood farm right the address right um You might want look into that because they have uh but they he has a they have a very good rapport with your is it your grandmother my my great a yeah your great ant you want to look into that because he which which eldes the eldes the eldes that own that they they have the right on that whole oh the entire Road okay that's Edson elridge he's the uh he's the executive of the state I'm serious that he could legally put a he could legally put a fence right down crossw Farms yeah wasn't aware of that but yeah we'll we'll do what we can to yeah he can stop anybody from parking on it he can stop anybody from from a driveway access on it they might have an easement they do they the eldes at the at the end these people no no no they already own the house on them they own the house but this is the another lot I I I know him I know the eldes very well I grew up with them and I know that they they have uh jurisdiction they will put in a good word for us yeah but I know that your your aunt was very close to them great aunt or whatever she was thank you so that's in your favor might want to check with them all right so um did there are people here did you wish to address us you need to come up to the microphone please go to this or you consider the desk right there you can do it right there just push the button the Conservation Commission is addressment I am Carolyn whittle own and live at 10113 Orleans Road but grew up in the house at 10:15 Orleans Road my parents bought the property in 1971 so I have lived on Pleasant Hill off and on for over 50 years I've worked at chadam businesses full and part-time since I was 14 I graduated from chadam high school I'll preface my comments by saying that I love and respect chadam I question whether the lot zeroc Crossman Farm Road is buildable if placing a dwelling on it honors its historical location and if it's prudent to push aside multiple town and state bylaws and regulations to put a dwelling on a grossly undersized lot furthermore I object to the mitigation plan as it most certainly does impact the animals vegetation and abutters zeroc Crossman Farm uh road is uh under half an acre in fact the square footage used in the notice of intent is inflated to 20815 as every other document I have seen declares lower Square footage numbers and I do not know if the 30 foot and less portion of the lot has been subtracted from the square footage amount I'm unsure if a lot so small was ever acceptable in chadam but its size is even more alarming when you consider that the lot next to it owned by the same family is barely over half an acre these two lots combined do not meet today's one and a half acre requirement I'm also unsure as to how the 100t buffer zone which crosses through the middle of the proposed dwelling is acceptable building on this property opens the door for another small dwelling to be built on the small lot next to it leading to more tree removal and further compromising of an area so near to the AC and waterfront on the first page of the notice of intent The Proposal admits that building this dwelling I quote will result in permanent impacts to AC as well as the outer portions of buffer zone to salt marsh and Coastal Bank no the word impacts is plural this slot additionally impacts the land under ocean associated with Ryder's Cove and land subject to Coastal storm Flowage and FEMA flood zone concerns the notice of intent minimizes these impacts but added together these impacts are hard to accept there are thousands of square feet being compromised 8,575 Square fet according to the proposal more than a third of this lot that we cannot get back if rules and regulations are broken changing a lawn into a meadow with some bushes is not an equitable tradeoff to cutting down trees and putting a dwelling driveway septic and utilities on this lot I also do not foresee what the proposal calls an improvement to wildlife habitat because the animals will not be seeking the state state highway nor should the humans lead them there this area is an important Corridor for all animals from Pleasant Bay Jacknife Cove and muddy river the animals cross over to a brook and wetlands behind my property and then through the property and the area where trees will be removed in the area cleared to a cranberry bog on Crossman Farm Road to the Herring run and Stillwater Pond I regularly see deer coyote Fox Rob rabbits turkeys squirrels Chipmunks mice bulls and moles I have seen Turtles for the first time I saw a fisher cat this year there are owls Finch Cardinals Blue Jays starlings Robins Ducks geese swans Harens Falcons and Osprey the osprey nest is an important addition to the area any construction or building nearby will affect it section four of the notice of attent claims that there will be no adverse effect on animals I disagree because building on a lot that is under a half acre sets a precedent for building a dwelling next door on another undersized lot and this most certainly will further block this migration Corridor it will create a barrier forcing the animals to explore potentially dangerous Alternatives such as the highway or other properties I'm offended by the statement in section 44 B2 the proposed work will not create a barrier to Wildlife movement and I dispute the statement in section 44 B3 that the current habitat value of the site is limited because I have witnessed over decades Wildlife navigate their way through this and the lot next to it to which will become more difficult or may even prevent it due to dwellings pavement and vehicles my guess is that only about 25% of the lot has trees mostly in the Upland Forest but the proposed dwelling is partially in this area and trees will have to be removed for construction the variant request claims that sight clearing will affect 1,340 Square ft of red Cedars I do consider this an adverse impact I'm afraid it may be more than this in reality many dead trees in that Upland Forest Area have been toppled over so the lack of remaining trees will hardly meet the description of a forest not having this natural barrier of affects all in this area animals and humans the clearing of debris will Denude the Upland forest plants that are currently enjoying growth there may not survive the exposure of the direct sun and drought that may ensue this change will also disturb the ecosystem in The abutters Yards critical to the abutters is the sound and light barrier these trees provide cutting down the mature trees in the Upland Forest means that all of the noise from the highway will not be filtered by a natural and attractive barrier it also means that the lights from Vehicles will disturb the abutters daily adding the ambient lights and noise from undersized Lots does not reflect the standards of chatam residents or respect their property values a butter should be involved in decisions that adversely affect them the variance request states that 31% of the site will be restored with Native plantings the site already is natural albeit not perfect and only needs to be restored if it is disturbed by this project to stop mowing a lawn and create a field with some bushes does not make up for the loss of healthy mature trees the mitigation plan seems awfully dependent on blueberry bushes this proposal is not a significant improvement over the current situation it would be preferable to extend the border of wild plants that are already a happy home for stability appearance and for the rabbits and other animals down the boundary line of the IAD animals do not use the lawn portion for travel because it is too near the high way and they can access water through better Roots only a portion of the vegetation buffer strip will be restored and the current mitigation plan forces the butters to spend more time and money on their properties to maintain what they have or be forced to follow suit due to unintended seeding the New England conservation Wildlife mix contains multiple grasses and some flowering PL plants to which humans may be allergic some of the plants May attract the deer an animal I do not want to see come into contact with the highway way indeed some of the mitigation plan poses dangers for humans as well I object to trees that grow to 12T High placed along the highway especially in clusters pulling out of the shared driveway of 1013 and 1015 is exceedingly difficult to the left of the driver to create more blind spes spots on the curve to the right will create an unsafe Hazard to all drivers including those coming down the hill exiting from crosswind Farm Road visiting the Herring run or parking at the pulloff on Ryder's Cove there are too many elements in this variance request that are out of compliance the various Municipal setbacks exist for good reasons perhaps the dwelling should it be built could be located farther down and over a bit in the lot with parking in front of it to minimize tree cutting reduce the driveway area and allow a wider Wildlife Corridor we need to keep the undersized lot next to it in consideration but I would still have concerns about the septic system the notice of intent admits that it is not possible to place the septic system outside of the outer limits forcing it to be under a flood plane how can we even entertain this notion and how might this lot transition to the sewer system as it is in a low-lying area I want to add here that this lot is also situated among several historical landmarks most notably the Nickerson Homestead Museum the founders of chadam cemetery and the Marone station this area has always been a good representation of of chadam as people enter the town I failed to see how building on this lot is in keeping with the historic tone and natural Ambiance that the area currently exudes the conservation commission's Preamble acknowledges that large wooded trees are of the greatest habitat value the Preamble also acknowledges that trees provide important functions this applies to humans as well the trees are important to the abutters this Lots side may be deemed grandfathered but the current conservation rules apply the conservation committee has the opportunity to shape chatam in ways other committees cannot I urge you the conservation committee to uphold all of the bylaws rules and regulations and not Grant this variance request thank you thank you um let me just say um and I have a copy for everybody because I threw spetti at the wall so you could just see what well yeah there's a lot of it in there that you'll need to go to the zoning board with yes um and you've already addressed some of the things that it looks already have a better plan for some of it I would like email a copy to the conservation agent so that we have a digital copy we will share it with the applicants um I've just added to my list of things that um we need to do for to prepare for the next hearing um giving you an opportunity to to review that carefully and respond I don't want to ask you to do that right now but if you give it we'll get it to them and then everybody will have it thank you very much for doing all of your your work thank you thank you I have a lot more to say but I'll save that for the next one okay thank you um so with that let me just read off what I've got here for the next hearing um you said you would consider um I mean I have to say that at least standing on that lot the slope did not strike me as prohibitive for at least a permeable PA driveway okay if not something more perious than that but definitely not asphalt and it's in a flood plane so no so permeable Pavers at a minimum um you'll combine the mitigation areas into one and run it adjacent to where there are already naturally vegetated areas bearing in mind Miss whittle's comment about not blocking sight lines that's a zoning issue but I heard that um the restoration of the Lao replaced with a natural Meadow and that's not a point um the number of trees coming out you'll identify the number coming out within the AC I I I can't tell from your site plan whether anything within the outer Aura is coming out but um you need to mark them on on site with the you know tape and uh so we can see where they are um Cedars will be planted we need a landscaping plan for the areas within jurisdiction 75% minimally um Native and a response to miss whittle's statement is there anything else did we want the property staked more clearly yes if you could stake it so that with different colors so the 50 Foot line the 100 foot line the building in one color and then Mark the trees that would be then we could at least we do we do we have standard do we yeah well what seems to be everybody uses the same colors let me put it that way I oh it's in the application application the forms the application form will will guide you on terms of the coloring for the stakes and with all of that if uh we're looking actually if your mitigation in the zero in the ndz it's 100% native just so you know Nob Z and the outer Aura is 75% M and did well that's not mitigation that's the that's landscaping that's Landscaping y the landcaping around the house would be right would be that okay Janet yes um that was that was a consideration of mine to uh move the house lower to keep those Cedars uh in the back of the uh yeah um back of the house uh that would save a lot of those trees just by moving the house down the hill yeah agreed I mean again because of the the way that the highway bisects the area from the the the the coastal resource areas moving the house a little bit further into to that would not affect that and if it saves trees on the other side it could be well worth thinking about I'll put that thank you Bob remind me that I'll put that on here all right um so how long I'm inclined to say July 10th which is our next open hearing date I think two weeks might be too too quick um for the survey and plan revisions I got it July 24th uh July 24th okay okay uh if for some reason we cannot make the July 24th hearing just send a no notice to Crystal and say ask her for a further continuance and we just we Grant those pretty automatically okay understood okay thank you all for your time thank you thank you I move that we continue zero crosswind Farm Road to the meeting on July 24th 2024 for a no of 10 Gordon second roll call vote Bob Elise hi Karen I Eric I Cheryl Mary I and I vote I that's unanimous thank you very much thank you for coming thank you all all right Paul we have uh one more notice of intent we've got to pick this up because I know we have somebody breathing down our necks to get in here eventually 61 elephants I'm reading it 61 elep Lane LLC map 16c parcel 36-14 SC10 3686 replacement of existing concrete wall with a vertical sheet wall hello Paul thank you Madame chairman it's Bob Perry hello Bob good afternoon Bob hi there I'd love to be with you there in person sitting all afternoon in the audience but here I am on on your uh team's platform so well lucky you but go ahead so I'm going to just recap quickly because I know it's getting late back in 2022 the concrete seaw wall at this location at 61 alitz collapsed and we responded quickly to the owner at the time and filed an emergency uh authorization to make spot repairs on the on the spur of the moment and effectively received authorization through your committee to stabilize the place and basically made a rudimentary revetment out of the remaining concrete just laid it back and put Filter Fabric beneath it with with a little bit of uh Stone uh Rubble well we filed the notice of intent as we were supposed to for followup with the emergency authorization um we included this bulkhead in that notice of intent but some months later wrote you a letter uh requesting that the bulkhead portion of it be withdrawn and we never heard back and I don't believe the commission ever took action to issue an order of conditions for the Emergency work certainly not for the vad so the property changed hands recently and the new owner is uh in the same family uh as number 63 Alit which is the property just to the South which is a good thing because we had mentioned on the plan initially that the wall workor at that southern boundary would need to be coordinated with the other owner and that's very easily done now so we have redone the notice of intent to address the current time frame to address the current owner of the property and what we're doing is clearing all of that Rubble out of there and there's a proposal here to install a more standard um below ground uh Marine seaw wall of a very low profile it'll be about 3 feet 3 and 1 12 ft high and it will have turns at each end it's approximately 5050 ft in length the access can occur quite readily right down a lious lane and then come across on the water side of the buildings a lot of this work would be by hand but I think the sheeting would be hung in place and vibrated in not a whole lot is intended to be changed here uh the area has kind of a rough uh salt tolerant grassy vegetation certainly no real practical and having Turf Lawn but I think a um salt tolerant Coastal grass is what would be placed into the area that you see as all sand um footwork would be performed on the seaward side it's possible in the long uh reach of my imagination that a small rubber track um excavator might need to be out there twisting in the helical anchors but that would be very temporary and Matt would be employed on top of that salt marsh deposit we've done this a number of times and I don't believe any damage would occurred to the salt marsh I did contact Renee uh gagy the shelfish Constable she indicated to me that this was not a project that they needed to see uh it doesn't need any zoning permits to our knowledge it is just a replacement of the concrete wall that fell down because it was not designed as a seawall perhaps when it was built the beach was a beach and it wasn't uh any anything to worry about but times change so rather than go on and on I'm just going to say uh that is the summary the the emergency work if there was never an authorization issue for that beyond the emergency then we have no objections to having that included in the notice of intent I mean the order of conditions just to have it acknowledged so with that I'll take your questions thank you all right thank you Bob um thank you too for the recap although I I I will say that to my recollection the commission did did vote on uh allowing the withdrawal of the noi so that was formally withdrawn yeah we were we were in uh in requesting only to withdraw the bulkhead and to keep the emergency work um current so that we would fulfill the purpose of the notice of intent for the emergency but I I think that's water under the bridge yeah yeah yeah so we we will acknowledge the uh the emergency certification um that exist that predates this noi um let me see what questions people have um anybody jump in I don't have a question I have a comment having having spent Summers my entire little life down there right in that spot what Bob has plan makes sense to me it looks like it's going to hold up all the way around and it sounds like it's being built for the Marine area and that's that all right thank you well I have a quick question uh behind the wall um on the house side um you're going to have to add material in there to raise the grade a little bit to level it out right yeah you consider maybe uh like sand and Beach Grass uh for in case though you get lap over uh you know from from Salt Water something that's going to handle it I I don't know of an objection to that um it's it's it's an area that's going to take a lot of salt water from time to time beach grass is probably the best thing other than a spart of payent I have seen you've probably seen it too a lawn area right there and that type of proximity actually modifies itself over time where the salt marsh grass seeds that wash in they're the ones that grow but I don't think a strip of Beach Grass say 8 feet wide in case remember if somebody wants to walk through there and it's harder to walk through the beach grass it is so um but a but a strip of Beach Grass no objection to that and the and the sand will would would you know would percolate the water would percolate quicker than than having a top soil base uh the you know where the seawat sits on top I yeah that would be great uh in my opinion oh I I agree um you know the beach grass will get invaded with a lot of different things if the soil's too good yeah but um uh we're not looking to make a huge change but I I was basically going to keep it like it was which was a a kind of a scrappy uh grassy area but I um you know if if you're not uh closing today on this we we can ask the owner about to the extent they want to um have at beach grass just that I I'd want to keep enough room so people can move through the area right so you'd have an area near the house that's that you would just be regular lawn that you can walk through and just have like you suggested just have a small area of Beach Grass area yeah yeah we have about 14 ft so we could you know do six to eight feet of that with beach grass right thank you thank you Bob uh and Bob what about demarcation between the lawn and the beach grass uh so no one Ms over the beach grass well I you know I don't don't know I is it necessary with Beach Grass well the lawn will be mowed so that'll be kind of it's interesting to wonder about that what what's interesting is that the beach grass line is a visible line yeah I think it's going to have to at least my approach to it would be the honor System um if you don't mind that kind of approach because if you run your mower into the beach grass it's not going to look pretty yeah it's the end of your mower movie I okay I think it's clear enough you know once it gets established you'll it's definitely not something that that you're going to want to M yeah what about access between the house and the beach uh through the beach grass uh would you want to add any stepping stones or anything like that you have a wonderful question that I forgot to point it out to you uh with regard to beach access and I have not spoken to the applicant about this but there was an understanding that the steps that are sticking out into the intertitle Zone will actually be removed and I know of no alternate way of getting to that intertitle zone except to go down through aat stand on top of the wall and jump walk down the street walk down the street yeah right just walk around or dive yeah dive at high tide yeah okay so there's access at the Landing right there yeah if if one thing I'll mention again this property owner is a new owner I don't know the level of familiarity has uh right now there's a set of steps there that as I understood understood to be removed and if there's any change to that we'll we'll come back to you okay fair enough great anybody else okay um thank you everybody that was a lot of good ideas put out there um so Bob will'll make those changes um oh there's a hand up oh Paul oh yeah it's me um Bob did did anyone contact Ted I don't think he'd have an issue with this but yes we have a we have you did get a letter yep we have one late this came in before we came in here today he has no issues so okay great thank you yep all right so uh to you be we do the plan to make these changes do you want to schedule for July 10th yes okay we can do that I move that we continue 61 El Mets Lane to July 10th 2024 for a notice of intent Gordon second uh roll call vote Bob Elise I Karen I Eric I Cheryl I Mary I I and I vote I we will see you back here then thank you very much Bob thank you all bye thank you bye all right Paul um what's next minutes that's it minutes minutes oh we got some minutes minutes minutes my notes hang on we have uh April 24th May one and may one um I'm looking at the uh version that was posted in Dropbox I got a small thing okay go ahead the tripo which uh 21 shat Lane wait what date which date the 24th okay 21 Shad 21 Shad Lane uh third third sentence um there is a reduction in coverage not I think it I think it says on I think it reads on coverage oh I caught that got that was so no mitigation is required and I add I add it is yep and then on May 1st if you want to do that all sure go ahead 93 scattery Road third sentence hang on got to find yeah here we go okay I'm there the third sentence removed is typed twice y oh removed and removed removed and removed yeah okay okay when we mean it okay anything else all right I'm going to accept all changes stop tracking and take a motion to approve these minutes I move that we approve the minutes from April 24th 2024 May 1st 2024 Gordon second roll call vote Bob hi leise hi Karen hi Eric hi Cheryl I Mary I and I vote I they are approved uh oh Sean gosh you're you're you you're you're a little late um well I've been I've been here since 1:30 I watched the 63 shell Drive um extension request I had trouble getting on with Wi-Fi oh um and I figured someone would see me and I if not I would just grab it at the end so okay um not sure what what happened there was it was it continued or which uh is this a 356 and 366 these are these are the CBI the CBI extensions here here's the situation some issues that um we we approved the extension on the first three on the and the nment we have held on the beach access staircase a because it doesn't expire till October so there was no need for urgency secondly we weren't we wanted to understand better what a shift in infrastructure priorities within the resort means for this project whether this project is going to actually go forward and see we really wanted to talk to somebody from CBI about some not necessarily related concerns but some concerns we have about some of the things that have been going that been happening without any notice to us or approval sought and so we wanted to meet the new people and maybe have a conversation and this was our way to do that perfect so you you you all know about Gary thander moving on and uh y luckily we have uh we have interim Paul Zeus okay back um so so Paul is back I just found that out uh an hour ago okay so what I'll do is I'll have Paul um come to the next meeting I don't know if we can ask for it's going to be July 10th we we in July 10th yeah that's when we scheduled it so if you could have him come July 10th 24th either one like you said that the that that one doesn't expire until October so right um and if and Pa Paul if you could just share with me either offline or uh okay what the issu I just I just sent it to you about 30 seconds ago man we're we're like syned here all right so what I'll do is I'll just reach out to Paul and uh set up a meeting with him and go over whatever those issues are and see if we can come to the July 10th hearing with answers that would be very much appreciated be very efficient then all right thank you sorry you sat there for two hours but good to get you message I did learn about the um the the stairways yeah uh in the limit of three feet that's and I I didn't want to say anything but it seems like a very very narrow because on the inside of that three feet between the posts you only have two feet because you essentially have 4x4 and then your railings are usually 2x4s on the inside of the 4x4 which is 6 in I think we're thinking 36 in in inside is the in inside Dimension oh that's that's more than reasonable and with the forges on either side for the railings you're you're at 40 something 4 hey Sean do you Happ to know what the Ada requirement is I I don't I don't that was a very interesting comment um Ada requirement because usually it's the the width is due for a wheelchair access not for uh pedestrian access so I I can take a look at that for you guys nobody's going down no stairs in a wheelchair yeah so my daughter's handicapped she wouldn't be going down them stairs or or the building code requirement what's the U minimum or maximum I can take a look for you guys and I can send you the section thank you all right thank you all right all right thanks thanks Sean well thank you for hearing me and uh have a great rest of the day you too you too all right Paul anything else no I think uh we talked uh yep enough okay I move that we adjourn Gordon second okay uh Ajman vote Bob Le Karen hi Eric I Bob hi Geral I Mary I and I say I thank you very much everybody oh wait don't go away Mary oh she went away so [Music] [Music]