##VIDEO ID:a71gshNMrbA## e e e e e [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] good morning hi this is Frank massina gentlemen could we just concentrate thank you very much uh good morning I'm Frank massina this is December 3rd 2024 meeting of the chadam historical commission and before we start we have a couple of quick announcements uh please note this meeting is being recorded will be available shortly Hereafter for scheduled and or on demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device if anyone else is recording this meeting please notify the chairman I don't see anyone pursuant to Governor Haley's March 29 2023 signing of the acts of 2023 extending certain provisions of covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law General law 30 a20 until March 31st 2025 this meeting of the aatam historical commission is being conducted in person and via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately Act access to proceedings is provided for in an order in the order a reminder that a person who would like to listen to the meeting while it is in progress may do so by calling the phone number 508 94544 10 Conference ID 799 730 299 hashtag or by joining the meeting online via Microsoft teams through the link in the posted agenda while this is a live broadcast and simal cast on chanam TV despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide for realtime access we will post the record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible thank you very much okay the first order of business is a roll call Bob leer yes here Steve Burling game absent Nancy bar here Stephanie Hamilton here Sandy Porter here Janet Tennyson here Robert Stevens here and the chair is here we have a quorum um and just for the members of the public we have a quorum but there is still one position open on the commission for an alternate um so if you are interested please let me or Christina know if if you have any interest okay the next order of business is the minutes of August 13 24 I upfront want to thank Annie for a very you really captured the essence of that application relative to the uh the tower so we appreciate it very much any comments questions additions deletions I move approval of the minutes I'll second has second was that you thank you very much okay the sh will note the presence of Mr Steve Burlingame you here good thank you very much all right so we'll proceed with a roll call on the minutes um Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Steph Yes Sandy yes Janet Robert yes and the chair votes yes thank you very much again Annie nice job okay uh we have uh two or three applications one application which is being continued to I guess the September 17 meeting we'll discuss that but more importantly we now have the subject of reorganization of the 20242 chatam historical commission uh for the position of chairman Vice chair and clerk uh I often joke about anybody interested I was going to nominate Bob leer because you had said you didn't want to do it anymore well I have thought about that and I appreciate that stuff uh and Bob and I have discussed it Bob just came off his uh long tenure on the uh conservation Foundation uh I have a lot going on on the agenda and I I could contined another year if that's okay with Bob whatever you like Bob that's fine with me is as you said you've got a lot of topics on there of which I am not familiar all right having said that if is anyone else interested besides myself in continuing okay Mr B you want to make a motion and can move it along sure I uh nom nominate Mr massina to be chair again for another year second second that okay it was a tie I just have a comment to make I'm glad that Frank is willing to do it he's do such a wonderful job for so long and I'm glad you're feeling well enough that you're willing to tackle it again I think that was that was part of it I was feeling kind of low physically and otherwise like what am I doing here but uh but no I do appreciate your comments and um you know and and as Bob said he's been very busy guy and and I think I would like to transition some of things that Bob would like to become more familiar with and I think the most the other most important thing is we do now have another staff person and this Christina andana uh the new uh uh Christino Christino Grady and I think she's here so you know we might have a a way to move some things along that don't require as much time from the chair uh so with that if there are no other comments um I guess we'll do a roll call on Bob's motion Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yes Robert yes and the chair abstains okay all right now the position of Vice chair I would like to nominate Bob leer in the position to continue as Vice chair of the uh chatam historical commission I'll second that any other comments Corrections or other motions okay Bob is doing a great job for me personally and if nothing more we finally got got the idea of the Motions a little bit more professionally than we used to which P which color green yellow you know so uh I do appreciate that all right we'll do a roll call uh Bob alstein Steve yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yes Robert yes and the chair vote Yes okay out of position of clerk Steve do you want to continue absolutely okay uh Steve wants to continue as Clerk and we everybody keeps telling me I should give him more work but we'll talk about that okay the CL the clerk is kind of an undefined position except it's there I because back in the days before everything electronic and the minutes that the minutes were done by a person rather than I remember when I was on the commission I think we used to do our own minutes and then Sandy was there at the time okay any other uh I'd move that we move that uh Steve Burling game to continue in position of clerk of the chatam historical commission I'll second thank you okay any other comments discussion none all right Bob yes Steve oh thank Nancy yes Steph Yes Sandy yes Janet yes Robert yes and the chair votes yes okay uh there's no vote on that but uh Stephanie I think you have another year in your position on CPC okay and traditionally just for other members of the boards we do have some new members that traditionally has been a three-year appointment by the select board and we basically we the commission basically U suggests to the select board who we would like to and we traditionally we have been rolling that position and so next year think about that uh if someone else like to step in the chair I've been thinking about it all right good so we're organized I don't know that may be an overstatement all right we have uh couple of public hearings as I said 75 hallway street is being continued to September 17 excuse me Frank it would be October 15th 15th October 15th do they get how many chances do they get I can look into that I'm not quite sure I mean you know we're printing a lot of paper October 15 so we need a motion to continue the application of 75 hallway Street 2417 to our October 15th meeting I so move and add that it's at the request of the applicant thank you a second please second thank you very much okay uh Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yes Robert yes and the chair votes yes uh you do have documentation you have the application which killed a lot of trees but you we also have uh correspondence which Christina has provided you which unfortunately we'll probably do it again uh from uh the cape cart commission Sarah CV on that application uh because it has been before us a number of times okay having said that getting on to business uh uh 24021 uh 17 Dusty Miller Lane this is an application to be filed in in accordance with chapter 158 an application by Edward Lopez is he here Mr Lopez are you online does he know he has to be here they do I will send an email and hopefully all right with the non appearance of the applic applicant I would like to propose that we uh because there are some questions we we um continue this application to our next meeting which is September September 17th got that one right okay uh can someone give me a motion to that effect um I move excuse me sir are you Mr Lopez all right thank you sorry definitely uh there was Motion in a second I'm uh I move we continue this applic application to September 17th in the absence of the applicant okay second second very good uh Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yeah yes and the chair vote Yes Robert I apologize technically you shouldn't be voting but that's all right like to hear your voice your docel tones all right thank you very much I don't think we broke any laws all right this going to be a real short meeting so we MO move on to um 23 mil Hill hold on one second just getting myself a little confused 23 yeah are you here for 75 can you shed a little light on 75 I mean like uh lucky for me I have no light to shed on 75 all way I haven't discussed it with Mr Riley at all all so oh this is Mr Riley yeah it's his project so he's that other guy he's that other guy so oh good his fault all right I can talk about this one though if you yeah no I just I just was cons you know what what's going on no honestly I haven't been involved with it at all so I'm not sure what the uh could you being you work in the same office just tell them to drop us a line like yeah be happy to ask him you know we don't mind I mean excuse me don't mind but it's it's a big application it's a lot of information and we going to get a hernia carrying it around y I'll I'll uh mention it to him when I see him in the office later today okay great thank you very much I appreciate it you're welcome okay so we're now going to be discussing 24019 uh 23 mil Hill Lane and uh this is uh to be heard in importance with chapter 158 and also as part of provision 12E of the cap Commission regional policy plan as this is situated and is a contributing structure in the National registered District um all right is Leslie gonna be with us or you're going to speak she is not Leslie had a medical appointment she could not resed so I'm here today for the for the application um we were here back in July I believe um with in front of this commission for uh proposed additions after that meeting the applicant and discussion with their contractor and the engineer part of The Proposal if you're looking at the um elevations in front of you on the self elevation existing they were proposing a second story over that the L connector in the middle there and that was deemed to be issue in terms of feasibility and structural soundness of that proposal so they've uh in front of you today is is an alteration to the proposal I think lesli did a very nice job explaining that as part of the application but I'll touch on it uh briefly as well the right hand side that is going to be exactly ly the same as the addition that was before you back in July it's a a bump out on the front uh to create a new entry wave for some more space for the friendly family I should mention Andrew and Kelly friendly are both online today as well and then uh instead of doing the Second Story Edition over the uh L connector they're going to on the left hand side they're going to bump out uh that portion of the home to create the additional living space that they're looking for as part of the addition um at your prior meeting you determin that the changes did not negatively impact the uh historical Integrity of the structure um I'd suggest I think the changes for this proposal are leaving less than what were proposed last time in terms of the uh impact on any visual Integrity of the historical nature of the structure so we'd hope that you would find the proposal to be satisfactory um but happy to answer any questions okay I did get a feeling at Deja Vu as I pulled up the street again uh so we approved it previously and they back here just for that change so they I believe there was a second story Edition that is not cannot be supported so they are coming back with these with a new application because it's a vast appliation null and void so to speak correct y it's a different design so we wanted to come back I believe we had to come back it's a different design so I believe we had to come back to show you the changes okay so I just just was procedure wise so we just forget about that first one it's it's gone uh just okay uh again personally a cute little house and I think they're trying hard to preserve the historical Integrity of it but that's my opinion so let's uh go around and see how other people feel other members of the board N I was at the site inspection and um definitely think that these changes are less um imposing than the initial one um which was okay in it of itself so I would definitely support this application great Sandy hi um lesie did a great job with the changes I support the changes and the application and thank you for saving that tree oh I should have mentioned that yes the other pair thank you very much for saving that tree oh I didn't realize that so it's that tree is going to get yeah there was one there was going to be a porch Edition on the L as well and that's no longer part of The Proposal so the tree can remain I think we should ask the Conservation Commission if we could join forces and all right I totally agree I think it's a great change yes I agree I would support this change thank you T I'll support it as well thank you Bob I'm with all those guys said Robert any opinion although you're not voting no opinion I've seen it both times and I support keeping that as a historical structure and it just seems like everyone involved is working over time to to do what they can to save that house so I support it thank you thank you very much well it looks like we've got a violent agreement here so at this particular point you know we can close and see if any members of the public uh here or online wish to speak for or against the application none okay all right we have a number of as you know the drill here a number of motions uh Robert can you uh move it along for us I think so um I move that with regard to chapter 158 I move that the historic commission finds that the building located at 23 mil Hill Lane is historically significant because it's more than 75 years old and is a contributing structure and a national register history historic district I'll second okay uh any other comments from the public or anyone else in the audience no okay Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes and Janet yes and the chair vote Yes all right number one I also move the head CH historical commission find the proposed work to be done dated August 5th 2024 will not not materially diminish the historic significance of the building and therefore the commission does not impose a demolition delay second second second thank you very much any other comments from the members or the public okay roll call Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yes and the chair vote yes thank you very much there's one more right I move the chadam historical commission under the Cape Cod Commission uh review section I move the chadam historical commission confirms that the home dwelling dwelling is contributing structure in the National Historic register District I'll second second comments members of the public none Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Steph Yes Sandy yes Janet you ch vot yes great thank you very much thank you very one more sorry which one's that jump in the gun referral okay correct I move the chadam historical commission finds the materials presented this date showing that the proposed alterations do not constitute a substantial Al alteration in the contributing structure in the National register historic district and therefore a referral to the Cape Cod Commission for review is not necessary second second okay any comments members of the public all right Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Steph Yes Sandy yes yes yes thank you Janet yes and the chair vote yes thank you very much thank you very much they should all be this sweet thank you okay we're doing good uh the last application I'm sorry I'm sorry I missed that I oh no no no I don't think so the question is there's nobody here for Dusty Miller Lane okay uh application 2420 uh 229 Main Street I believe this is in reference to the bond Cottage uh to be heard in accordance with chapter 158 and as well as in accordance with provision 12v of the Cape Cod Commission regional policy plan again the bond colleage this is a property a contributing structure in the National register District been before us before and um got to find the application right in front of me okay and we were going to be hearing this again for both there is uh again this is just the bond college that we're talking about correct it is um for the applicant um attorney Mike Ford Mr chairman uh when we did the barn I mean excuse me when we did the house we specifically informed the um committee that um we'd be coming back with the barn uh as a separate phase and so the last application um didn't allow us to do anything with respect to the barn the understanding was that that would be its own application and come back and be presented to you at a later date and this is that later date the house is uh under construction if you went out there and and saw that I should say construction has started again having been uh ceased for the summer so uh We've applied under both U because this is a um National register building and um National in the district and uh We've applied under 158 so we need all of those findings that you made with respect to the prior application um we've worked um uh on this for quite some time I will tell you uh with our clients and uh we have also consulted uh we hope you don't mind uh Sarah Corf as well to get uh her guidance our initial um thought was to do a um raise and replace and do a um replica and um given the fact that this is in the National register District um uh we were advised that is not um the way to go um it's too complicated in terms of uh removing a structure that um we're not sure when it was built frankly um you look at the assesses card and it says 1985 but then you read The Form B and it's pretty clear that it was there in 1932 or perhaps even earlier so um what's before you now is uh raising the building up it's it uh is on kind of a set of post now um uh bricks and um uh wooden posts with a lot of uh areas that you can see through for those of you who came out uh to the onsite and saw that and um to give it a brand new um skin uh the materials there are not historic the only thing we could find that was historic um frankly was that little window on the um uh north side if you came out to the onsite so with all of that why don't I just turn it over to U John Barker of PSD who's been the design architect on this project from the beginning and he'll present to you the proposed changes for your consideration yes good morning John Barker P Miss Avery to Silva um so our plan for the barn structure is to lift uh the existing structure provide a sound adequate foundation for which to set the building back down um as attorney Ford mentioned we will be reskinning replacing a lot of the could you what do you mean by reskinning new sidewall shingles replacing in kinds when you say sidewall are you talking about the shingles yes yes sir not boards not the structural boards no structural boards just how are the structural boards what's the condition of them the what is visible is in good shape it's in good condition um a lot of the interior of the structure has been modified and renovated multiple times over the years and there's limited visibility or accessibility to the true historic structure uh we were able to get into some of the eve spaces and attic spaces um and kind of crawl under the bottom of the building and wherever we could get accessibility and visibility to the historic structure everything did appear to be in sound solid Condition it's not post and beam or is it post and beam there are some it looks like the first floor was post and beam and then the second floor and up into the attic um was reframed at some point in the structures history um it's lost some of the original post and beam but but for the majority of the main living space it is a post beam my experience because I've been there years ago you know you know I we did see some assemblance of post and beams relative to the issue of the age it probably goes back to the late 1800s and my concern right now very simply these old buildings I mean you guys have done hopefully a great job on what you did with the front of the building but it's sitting up there okay and we unfortunately have a lot of experience or too much experience so that and buildings not being attended to or not and I'm not not denigrating at all we just want to be careful that when we're lifting an old building post and beam you've got to be careful because yes fortunately the the house is already up in the air a little bit you can crawl underneath there's about 3T of space underneath the structure now uh we don't we we will not have to move the structure in any way uh the main so you're not putting a basement in the structure we're putting a just a crawl space craw space uh just a a frost wall so we're not doing a full excavation and all that kind of good stuff we're not going yeah full full depth Foundation just a just a crawl space okay well let me f let me summ I apologize interrupting Michael but so the basic structural of the building the how the building is put together what post and beam is left and the other structures whether they're 1890 or 1930 you're not planning to attend L when you say skinning you're just talking the exterior we're replacing sidewall shingles in U some of the rotted degreg trim you know it's interesting just quick aside we got into a lot of trouble once with an applicant when he said that word sidewall going to replace the sidewall shingles and he end up taking all the all the boards off he says oh that's the sidewall we are only referring to the shingles themselves I will refrain from using sidewall or skin replacing shingles all right um the uh majority of the windows have been replaced in their modern 1980s um vinyl clad Windows which we will be replacing and upgrading um you can see we have our existing elevation in the the top left of the image on the screen along with a photograph of the existing East or Street side elevation and Below we have our proposed uh East elevations or Street side elevations um with the large uh barn doors both in the closed and open position just to see the kind of two options for the East Elevation um if we go to the next page um this is as we rotate around the building on the south side of the structure um you can see the small circular window Mr Ford was uh was referencing earlier uh which is an original wood frames um kind of a unique special feature of the structure so we are maintaining we are repositioning but we are salvaging and reusing the exact existing round window um and there's a couple of reconfigurations of window placements on the side elevation um as well as the backside elevation which is on the the next page um so we are moving a couple of the we are moving the windows and the door uh within the rear elevation which is not visible from the street um and then as we move to the final the north elevation um there's a large more modern picture window which does not meet the historic character of the structure which we are proposing to replace with um divided light um new windows and that concrete block uh chimney is gone yes we're going to get into a chimney discussion so I before yes and that is a CMU block chimney it's certainly not block chimney it's I don't even there's no fireplace inside it's just a a vent for the the heating system so that's what that that's what that and it's sendable I didn't I didn't yeah it's just in the Block it's not brick it's not brick it's there's no indication that it is original or or historic yeah okay well I'll leave that to others the the one quick question before I roll it over is the the the sliding doors will be operable in the new in the new uh so it's going to be it'll be open and when you open it now is nothing there or is there doors on it it has been infilled it so there is not nothing there's a wall got it okay I wasn't sure so we believe the original was operable uh in functional and so we want to reinstate the operability of the barn doors okay uh this is going to happen after the the main house is built or we just interest of it would run concurrently conr we would pick up uh and start the renovations to this structure um as we move into the fall and try to catch up to a completion date by the end of spring before the are you working this summer or are you guys stopped because of the zoning board usually stops stopped all summer all summer that's a tough one that's a tough one so we busy area though say again that's a busy area though yeah we could understand one I'm going to open this up I apologize one question and again on the exal structure Michael PSC you know those windows are wide open I mean I know you pretty much gutted the interior of the building and we W talk about that that's not not aain but if you could just let Aaron or whoever's in charge these days Peter you know there's no question whether it's getting into the interior of that building on the way that you you know you put plywood on the inside but I just just the thought I'm not sure what's going on has been there a long time and I've been meaning to call somebody and ask somebody you know I don't know if there's any rules on how you're supposed to close a building up but just just the thought it's going to make if like if something happens and all of a sudden there's too much weather going into that building we all have a problem anyway too much all right um let's uh look for questions or discussions I'm going to start this way now Robert do you have any questions or comments uh I'm not voting that today but but I've been to the site twice uh so curiosity's got the best of me here is is this planning to be a a residence or two residents or residence with a guest house or I'm sorry I thought I heard a bouncing excuse me go ahead Robert I apologize uh it it's currently uh used for residential purposes there are bedrooms in it and a kitchen currently M um it's been noted that way on the assesses records for many years if you read The Form B B uh uh The Form B indicates that in 1932 it was used to house the employees of Acme laundry as kind of Workforce housing um back uh before it was called Workforce housing um so yes the intention is is the kitchen um the kitchen's being removed we're going to remove the kitchen it's just going to be guest house or an accessory structure it will not be an Adu so be rented separately then no it cannot be rented separately second question again curiosity we we talked about that little shed on the property line we discussed that with the clients um they indicated that they didn't have any present plans but in the long term they probably would like to just replace it with something exactly the same in that spot U but uh that may well require us to be back to see you for that and get that approved but um he hadn't given that a lot of thought as yet is there evidence of the age thank you uh it's old it's hard to tell what it is uh there's there's no windows on it I don't think it's listed in the inventory of shingles that's why I said if it's in the inventory it may not have to come here but whatever we have to do we'll do but I think the thinking is it it might just be replaced in kind with a a new shed because it's virtually right on the property line there's maybe a few inches there yeah it's about these are not negatives these are just curiosity no no we were asked that at the on-site so I specifically asked the client after that so okay Bob um no questions I'd just like to uh applaud PSD yet again for following some of my nitpicky suggestions on how to present things as in existing and proposed on the same page and numbering the pages so I I appreciate that thank you Steve the um shed has become the proverbial tail wagon the dog hasn't not um and I apologize because I kiddingly made comment about it at the site meeting and I didn't mean to get anything other than maybe a Chuck or never mind a full-blown investigation of its his existence I think the whole project is nicely done and I certainly will support it thank you Janet no no questions thank you Steph my one question had been about the chimney and I think you answered it thank you thank you very much Sandy I agree with Bob the application is easy to read easy to understand and um I love that you're saving that window it looks good thank you thank you Nancy I just have a question about the barn doors themselves are they going to be um removed and replaced are they going to be refurbished the actual existing and I don't know the qu you know obviously they look like they're rotting a little bit at the bottom but I don't know how old they are if you've done any yeah they're in rough shape we are planning on replacing the barn doors um I think they're beyond the point of salvaging in this picture and if you well you were out there if you looked at the bottom of them you could see they're rotting from the bottom up right so you're going to replace them with similar replace them in kind we'll try to match as closely as as practical to what's existing but wooden yes well that's a good question I I thought they were going to just saved them I had a Paris sliding Bond was on a 1900 house which I replaced and then now on a house in main still being used but anyway so they're in bad shape rough yes all right any other comments any comments from the public what to speak for or against the application all right I I think we have consensus and can proceed uh again thank you very much for nice easy to read application we appreciate we're two for two today all right Robert this requires all all four okay for chapter 158 I move the chadam historical commission finds that the barn structure are located at uh where are we here sorry I put it 229 229 Main Street um is historically significant because is in whole or in part 75 years old or more and is listed on the national register of historic places and it also possesses It's associated with one or more historical persons or events of the town we have a second second thank you any comments members of the public okay roll call Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Steph Yes Sandy yes Janet yes the chair votes yes okay I also move the chat hisorical committee F find that the proposed work to be done dated August 5th 2024 will not materially diminish the historic significance of the structure and therefore the commission does not impose a demolition delay second second thank you any other comments members of the public all right roll call Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Steph Yes Sandy yes Janet yes the chair vote Yes under the Cape Cod Commission act I move that the chadam historical commission confirms that the building located at 229 Main Street is a contributing structure in the National Historic register District second second thank oh thank you Sandy all right uh roll call any members of the public wish to speak roll call Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Steph Yes Sandy yes and Janet yes and the chair votes yes one more I Mo with the chatam historical commission find that from the materials presented this date show that proposed alterations do not constitute a substantial alteration to a contributing structure located in the National Historic register district and therefore referral to the Cape Cod Commission for review is not necessary second okay members of the public members okay none Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yes the chair votes yes thank you very much and you could ask about closing it up if it's we are restarting construction I believe this week today I'm sorry we are restarting construction as of today could you come and speak up I'm sorry sir we start back with work today and your name Jeff O'Neal from PSD oh are you with PSD I am yeah okay yep all right well there you go should have asked that question two months ago anyway thank you next I I'll make sure it gets passed on to Mr pimus as well Frank yeah thank you very much just just a comment and appreciate your application thank you very much okay folks um we're on a roll here our next item on the agenda is new business or new old business or old new business and it's related to the uh our concerns on um demolition by neglect uh Christina passed out a uh copy of a memo which we received from Ryan Christenbury back in September 21st 2023 J it's been a year since we've been able to do anything and I believe that Co out there and is Christina Christine Christin Christino Grady to planner hi how you doing can you hear me good good how are you I'm great and thank you very much for for joining us um and we appreciate it uh you know and I guess of all the items we have and unfortunately we have at least two or three others this one is you know when I say items things that the commission has been addressing on let me introduce you to the members of the public this is Christine ogrady who's now uh just recently appointed as the town of Chan planner Town planner that's the proper title yes that is the proper title now thank you very much and uh Christin with a many duties with the planning board and other other boards uh I guess has been asked to assist the the historical commission as the previous planners have done um in this particular issue uh have you had a chance to to look at Ryan's work and any suggestions or comments on how we could proceed I have started to look into it I also met with Christina and um Katie dunan u in charge of uh Community Development um we did meet last week regarding it I have reached out to the um Cap Cod Comm um we will be uh uh going over where they left off exactly um we have a meeting scheduled for next week to talk about the options um and decide the best cost of action going forward so I'm not completely up to speed at this point but I am working on that and um I found it very interesting today to sit through some of your projects that you're working on some of the proposals that came before you they were definitely the plans looked fabulous just from my brief uh observation on the screens here I think people uh put a lot of thought and consideration into some of the projects that came before you today well that's an interesting comment and I appreciate it good thing you weren't around about 25 years ago and seen the back of the envelope applications we used to get it's Nancy who myself had been around since then and yeah it's it's been a it's been a journey I like that new word I use lately you know getting the public and specifically the major contractors who are usually involved in chatam you know and and if I think if I could speak for the commission some of the guys in chatam who do a lot of work have have they they they understand the drill make it simple keep it simple you know and straightforward and it's a lot less it's when we get a complicated application that's so difficult to file it just creates Confusion And Delay you know for everybody and and I think from your perspective you know their customers out there and we are supposed to be treating them as customers but we have you know regulations that we have to follow but uh certainly if we have a good application that makes it understandable and what the guidelines are I would't even call it the rules the guidelines you know it makes things a lot easy um well back to the issue of uh demolition I did share with you and I think the members of the commission you know two properties in town that I guess I'm the new Property Maintenance inspector here you know my history with this issue of demolition by neglect in another Community about 40 years ago you know the town hired a uh a property maintenance inspector and I don't think we want to go that far this is chadam but I think there is a sentiment in the community when they see an historic building or just an old building or any building you know being neglected you know Vines growing over roofs leaking and and then they come back to us and they say oh well this building is old and falling apart you know and then it puts us between the Rock and the Heart place and and I guess what we're trying to do I think I'm speaking for the commission uh see a lot of handshake head shaking in the right direction we think that the public needs to be made aware if you know you can't just ignore a building and let it let it rot away especially if it's built in 18 something you know there are there are some oblig obligations how we do this you know and because it's not us it's not the historical commission we have no regulatory Authority as far as that's concerned and that's why I think we commission has asked Katie to you to have your office involved and and certainly we will support it and you know we we've been through in the past eight or nine 10 years a number of bylaw changes and we realize the drill you know got to put something together we've had it and I guess the process we've used is once we have something that you agree Katie agrees you know list that you have something we can present that we as a commission meet informally with the zoning board with the planning board with kcom you know the other regulatory boards and get comments back and before we go forward to the board of Selectmen you know with something concrete and proposal is that does that sound reasonable in that approach that sounds very reasonable because obviously you need um feedback and you need uh you need a group standing together with you on anything that you move forward with in this particular case okay well uh I'm not looking for another meeting but you indicated you are you know you are meeting and I think Bob and I and and you know at least the leadership of the commission would be happy to sit in if you think it's necessary for us and get our comments now Stephanie Hamilton in the past had taken the lead on the Commission in some of the initial research with Christina uh uh Ryan christenberry sorry too many christinas are in here you know so she's somewhat aware of what what we have done I personally have been in touch with the chair of the Orleans historical commission they have an OP they have one which is kind of limited and that had always from my P perspective and I think the commission agrees that had kind of been a model we might wanted to to do and i' use the peral get your nose Under the Tent you know start you know get through get through the select board get through the boards and then town meeting because this is required two-thirds vote with something which is not intrusive but if we as a commission historical commission and May hbdc and the other boards show our concern demolition delect for historic homes very historic hes the way they did it in Orleans and I believe Stephanie helped me here was only buildings which are on the national register correct which you know we got I thought that that Orleans was too weak yeah it was much too weak and there only for chadam it's like 20 structures you know which are on the national register but most of them the town owns like the railroad mum the windmill you know uh things like that you know and some individual structures the brick building so but I think from my perspective and I'll open up to another members commission we'd like to go a step further maybe start off with historic buildings buildings in a national registered District which are contributing structures for instance we we're dealing with that today with two buildings two of our applications we have two applications for two buildings to be significant changes now we agreed to the changes and luckily these buildings are contributing structures in the National District but luckily they are being maintained but if we had a situation where there was a contributing structure in the National register districts districts that's with plora uh that we would like to have some protection of those buildings if we get if we do that and I think the town of chadam and the people in the town realize we're not trying to be overly invasive I think that's a beginning you know to get to the public that we're concerned about it like for instance I sent you an email and members of the commission of two other buildings uh which I was concerned about because they were being neglected uh neither one one is in an in the hbdc it's in an historic district not just an historic district but uh that is being allowed in my opinion to not be maintained and uh I asked I've asked uh uh Jay Briggs to hey what's going on haven't heard back but but I think that's you know not taking the Orleans and I looked to step taking the Orleans ordinance and moving up a step higher now chadam has three historic districts well actually Four we have the old village National register District we have the South chadam National register District we have the mcone RCA District what am I forgetting and we have the historic business district so there's four now to make matters a little bit more complicated for you don't you love that new job you got is that the town of chadam specifically this historic district applied for recognition of the stage Harbor Road National register District now what happened is we submitted extensive documentation to massar that stage Harbor Road would is eligible as a national register District Mass historic came down we had site visits we had meetings etc etc and mass historic determine that stage Harbor Road is an eligible National registered District we never we never submitted the full application because quite candidly about 60% of the people who live on State jber Road I'm not denigrating I have a lot of friends on State jber Road did not want to be listed technically the way the statute is written you don't really need their permission to get listed at a national register District but Mass historic generally will not formally make a district a national the district if the if a majority of the people in the district are not comfortable with that so now you would say well we failed well we didn't fail because the Cape Cod Commission is with the uh the act the Cape Cod Commission act whatever year we passed that has determined that properties in an eligible National register District are in fact capable that capable that are worthy of protection and and review so if we have a property in an eligible National registered District all the efforts and the regulatory uh business we just went through with these other houses are in effect and legally we have the right to in impose our decisions on an eligible National registered District property I know that's long longwinded and complicated I'm happy to spend more time with you at Point at point but I just wanted to you know you know uh bring you up the speed and also the members of the board and the public of where we're going so I think and if I think Steph's shaking here in the right way and she's the one did most of the work before you came on but what that we'd like to try that like all the contributing structures in a national register or eligible National register District would be worthy of some protection so we could avoid demolition by neglect boy this is a long speech I apologize but you know Kristen it it's a complicated issue and we appreciate someone who's got more legalistic understanding to proceed with this I one of the things that I had looked into is what's going to happen if it is neglect what do we do and I thought that should be part of it well that's that's you know the devil's in the details that's not a part of Orleans no no Orleans had no no enforcement at all yeah okay Christine you still going to stay with us no I'm tring that we giving you we're giving you a a tiger by the tail here you know we don't we didn't give you the easy one at first you know so no but I appreciate you you spending some time on it I I think I'll have a better understanding once I actually speak to them next week you know on um where exactly some of these other projects uh have ended up and I think one of the biggest questions that we'll ask of of the Cape Cod Commission is you know what kind of numbers they see we're we're also thinking about reaching out to the other communities to see what kind of applications they get or what kind of you know how many enforcement issues they have that type of thing okay now just to clarify my comment I maybe didn't hear you but you're you're meeting with uh KV kib Cod Commission I am her and um a Woman by the name of of um Chloe so I had reached out last week after I had spoken to Christina and Katie um uh Sarah had been on vacation and so she kind of needs a little bit of time to get um you know get up to speed on a couple of other things that she had been working on prior to Vacation okay do you know Sarah um I don't have the actual we're g to do it sometime Tuesday afternoon do you know Sarah Co we don't have a definite time do you know Sarah Sarah so Sarah and Chloe yeah okay cuz Sarah Sarah started looking into this about three years ago for us and she's been very helpful unfortunately this is an you know it's not an area where there's a lot of lot of documentation well thank you very much I appreciate that okay okay I will give you the I will give you the times and everything once we actually you know work it out if she thinks it's appropriate or if she thinks it's appropriate first that we just meet and then go from there but I'll keep you posted on it for sure thank you very much any other questions from how we're proceeding here folks all right Christina we'll hold off on other projects for you but but just if you if you could hang in there for a couple of minutes I would do want to just just mention a couple things as far as our agenda okay can you stick around absolutely y yes I can all right okay uh I think we looks like we might be off and running again so that's that's good to hear uh back to Old business just very quickly uh the first one is the update of the survey plan have you heard anything from Katie I've just been negligent I haven't had a chance to talk to her about the funding for this thing I have't I can check in with her too would you okay we're talking about you know we had that meeting on the updating the form as's and B's The Next Step was getting some information from Katie on how we would proceed I mean I you know I'm not trying to be naive about it it requires funding and it has to be in accordance whatever priorities Katie and uh Community Development has uh another item the second item which is fully funded and underway is uh Holly herbster pal and the efforts to uh give me the information or us the information that we could submit to mass historic determine the eligibility of the uh William and an Nicholson Homestead archaological site as a national register site well that would be another one not that there's anything there but it would be another National register District okay uh any questions on that okay uh La last item on Old business is uh the return of the historic US Coast Guard Boat House adoptive reuse is a shelf shelfer upw 90 Bridge Street as we all know um we've been working on this for 20 some years and it looks like hopefully it's going to come to a decision and that is the uh efforts at special town meeting September 16th hopefully all the members are supportive and will attend the special town meeting on September 16th for a positive and unfortunately it requires 2third vote for that effort to proceed so which wish luck hopefully we'll it'll not be a one vote decision we've done in the past um Dennis demolition delays anything that you can report Christine no all of the all of the um things are current on the agenda oh the only the only comment I would make I just realized 322 Bridge Street which expired expired August 24th no that that expired in February theyre from zba in August of last year right the owner just for transparency the owner of 322 Bridge Street I can't remember his name uh approached me at the where were I I was at the creative art center festival and he the word is he's going back before zba you know and um and I think his comment is is as far as he I know he still plans on demolishing that building and that building was 17 something and it's a shame um you know my my plate is full I there's nothing else we could do or we or can do at this point I mean we could have done something maybe two years ago when he first thought of this and get it listed on the national red or something but it's you know it's going to be a shame that building's coming down and I'm not sure what he's going to be putting up there but that's 322 brid Street um at one I did have a Slimmer hope at one point is one of the neighbors said if he could buy it and the owner would sell it in a minute because he's had so much aggravation but it looks like 322 Bridge Street is coming down um that's just for information uh continuing on page two I don't want to get into this because we've been already talking too much but uh I was asked in reference to um zero cross Farm Road um the owner of an adjacent property who before Conservation Commission had asked me some questions as a result of the archaeological surveys we did on the in the area as well as with the with the um uh I'll get it out the uh Nickerson Family Cemetery adjacent to this property and so I think we did what we we should do when somebody in the public ask question I says yeah we did an archaeological survey and we did a survey of the cemetery and guess what there's a lot of architectural re U archaeological resources there and so this woman her name is uh I'll get it out help me here uh Carolyn Carolyn whittle and she asked me you know if I could comment on it and and I listened to the uh Conservation Commission that's where this application is and she brought up the subject of potential archaeological resources there the town of chadam has no bylaw we have no bylaw to protect archaeological resources if you would read the archaeological survey which we completed twice 11 15 years ago and again last year if you read the recommendations and and the comments I think we sent copies to everybody uh of the copies of the recommendations I can look into it I don't remember what I'm going to do is ask Christina not to send the whole report to you but just the LA the end of the report which has two or three pages of suggestions that the commission or the town of chadam can take to protect archaeological resources guess what a lot of towns do that I mean Lexington Concord now we're not Lexington Concord but we're close okay you know a lot of truly truly historic locations do that I think in the town of chadam we go beyond that we may not have lexicon and Concord but we do have you know people living here 10 15,000 years ago and there are archaeological resources burial grounds etc etc so anyway long story short I was asked could I write a letter to mass historic and I did it and you have a copy of it and the letter is to the uh State archaeologists executive director brona Simone Simon and I very simply I said hey there's a significant amount of disturbance of land at zero crosswind Farm we've done an archaeological survey we did a cemetery survey can you give me some or us the town of CH some advice and assistance and I actually spoke to someone at the office and the answer to the question is nobody could stop the owner from doing it it's his property okay if he uncovers Graves there he's got to go through a process to carefully notify the police notify the uh the W andar Indians or whoever is and they come in they verify that and they take various actions the common practice is to do nothing more than to just put it right back in the ground by doing that they may ask him well don't put the garage here can you put the garage there you know that kind of thing and and the issue here quite honestly and if Christine has nothing to do you know at some point if we want to consider taking that action with a bylaw which says if you are going to disturb a large amount of property and the survey has indicated there's a high degree of sensitivity that there are archaeological resources buried there you should take a look before you dig that's all if you look before you dig then you know if you if you don't look before you dig and you uncover then you got it just delays it's a delay you know it's it's no different than what we do with architectural buildings we don't say no we just delay and and stop and think about it so anyway that and the owner and in this case of the property he's quite he's quite sensitive to the archaeological resources that may be on his property and point of fact his family did a dig on the property back in 82 so he already knows and is sensitive that he's going to be building in an area where there's either an extension of the Nickerson Family Cemetery or some other ancient I use that word archeological resources so this is just performer it's the chairman of the commission your chairman and for another year you know taking it you know a citizen ask hey can you look into that I don't have any Authority but I said I'd be happy to write the letter let somebody so that's the subject if somebody has nothing to do with their life and they want to consider putting something together to ask Christina maybe four or three years from now to think about a bylaw change to do that we've done the groundwork you know we have done the groundwork we did this information to know where those sensitivities are I'm done on that subject unless anybody's got something to say last but not least mono theater property we're waiting for the court to decide what happens to the area above the mono theater and whether we will or will not have a uh uh the theater coming back or saving that building as well as the Washington tail housee I don't believe we're going to lose either of them but the question is if we get a a reasonable decision from the court you know Mr Clark who's the owner says he hopes to save the building as a theater not and you know and we might have something in the future like everything else with stor preservation it takes a long time okay I'm talked out anybody got any issues or comments or questions yes Steve quick question yes sir regarding the but regarding the property on Bridge Street um the upwell how many other upwells are there in town do we know how many in chadam yes there just the one the old only that's it my understanding there were several in the I think you're are you talking upw where we grow clams or where the the Herring runs are there are multiple Herring runs no well this is not I'm not talking about Herring run I'm talking about upw where they up well is where grow little clams into bigger clams yeah I know what they do it's just and where's it's in the the boat it's in the the first floor of the harbor Master's office you ever been there I have not I have not seen it yeah you if you go there you can see what so that's that's the present upwelling uh that we have that yeah that's been there for a lot of years and the building is kind of in very bad shape and now make do it's a commercial now without being political and what's happening is that the uh all the equipment is failing and has to be replaced so Serendipity they were looking for to build a new building at 90 Bridge Street 30 by 60 and some of the people I've been involved with the boat house who says Hey the boat house is 30X 60 and there on you know Serendipity hopefully if we get a positive vote at Town Meeting thank you I have a question I don't know if I'm allowed to ask this what's happening with the old calico cat oh well happy it's going very well what's the red are they GNA be painting it is that the red stripes oh would he your brother was sick yeah he said they're going to paint it oh okay yeah what watch it you're talking together we got to get on a mic if you have something to say yeah he explained that when he came before us that those red stripes were just for where they're working and putting a rep putting they have to take the exterior off and then rebuild them and put them back and they're not going to stay those yeah those are just those are just the temporary temporary holder internal parts and all the wood well they're not now I'm going to join those those four or five poles which effect if you look at them is an American flag if you get close it's a red white and blue what he did is those poles or metal poles are the actual items that are physically going to support the second floor that's the metal what he's going to be doing is as uh Janet said he took the old ones off he's rebuilding them then he'll put it up around it so he's restoring actually the original wooden wooden columns and putting colums so you will not see what you see now yeah thank goodness he's he's doing a lot of work and uh we still we did bring the we did broach the subject of what color he's going to paint the building he said it he said it won't be white but we didn't get an answer so uh we'll we'll take what we can get ladies and gentlemen I think we did it thank you let somebody has something else to say any members of the public out there want to add something guess I make a motion that we adjourn oh nice motion second motion here we got a roll call is any comment Bob yes Steve yes Nancy yes Steph Yes Sandy yes Janet yes and the chair vote Yes and I'm sure Robert agrees thank you thank you ladies and gentlemen p [Music] [Music]