e e e e e e e e e in [Music] [Music] [Music] morning everyone I am Frank massina and this is the May 21 2024 meeting of the chatam historical commission as usual there's a couple of announcements to make before we officially start please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly Hereafter for scheduled and OnDemand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device if anyone else is recording the meeting please notify the chairman pursuant to Governor Healey's March 29 2023 signing of Acts of 2023 extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency as suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law General law 38 20 until March 31st 2025 this meeting of the chatam historical commission is being conducted in person via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order a reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress May doing so by calling the phone number 1508 94544 10 Conference ID 376 54191 hhag or join the meeting online via Microsoft teams through the link in the posted agenda while this is a live broadcast and simal cast on chanam chatam TV despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide for Real Time access we will post the record of this meeting on the 's website as soon as possible thank you very much okay uh first action is a roll call uh Vice chair Bob ler here Steve Berlinger absent Don Aman absent Stephanie Hamilton here Sandy Porter absent Janet Tennyson here Robert stens here Nancy bar here and I Frank Ms is here the chair I I want to welcome in the flesh Nancy bar back to the chadam historical commission Nancy had served on the commission for many years and U it took a little brief Hiatus and now she's back so we welcome her back so we have uh unfortunately three regular members of the commission uh not here today uh normally it would be Nancy bars time I Robert I believe you alterate last time but was both Nancy and robt will act as full members as alternates they can participate but not vote but when a regular member is absent the alternate uh can participate and vote in the regular members presence okay we have a uh relatively straightforward meeting we'll do the minutes next and we may break a record in terms of timing we'll see um so we have the minutes of April 16 2024 they will provided to you one more time Annie Hayes our recording secretary did a great job any corrections deletions I move approval I'll second that oh very good got new people fash on the buzzer okay all right so uh if no other comments we'll take a roll call Bob yes Steph Yes Janet yes Robert yes excuse me was Nancy and no Nancy was I was here would have to abstain and Sandy were both absent okay so Nancy you have to abstain you okay abstain Iain and Robert yes and the chair votes yes okay sorry about that all right again we have U one application and uh administrative approval which we have to uh approve and then uh a couple of comments on the old business so we'll go right into it application 2412 heard in accordance with chapter 158 demolition delay uh intent to fully demolished a potentially historic building or structure 289 SE plane SE Pine okay filed by Michael Collins and um come forward please good morning thank you and good to see most of you again we did the site walk yesterday uh Jamie Norcross is here as well in case there are any questions that that he may need to answer uh as was described in the S sidewalk yesterday um the original home is a late 40s uh Cape that has been modified and altered uh in the 60s the 70s and the 2000s uh it's been in uh family ownership for uh decades and uh it's going to continue that way with uh Miss Hoy uh as a current owner uh we are proposing a complete Demolition and a rebuild of a new home which uh you could see in the package this is the uh uh elevations of the existing home um we are uh the house is currently non-conforming to the site it is uh in violation of the back uh on the right hand side and we are improving that uh non-conformity by moving it further away from the setback still uh it will still be non-conforming but under uh section six finding will'll be able to um hopefully achieve that uh special permit approval we're also pulling it away from the Coastal Bank um which is all part of our conservation um U approval process which is on Wednesday uh the the house has uh as you can actually probably read from that elevation uh multiple levels uh because it's a it's a 1940s Cape the large section to the left side uh there's a sort of a loft second floor very steep setad of stairs and while we tried to uh find ways to um modify the house um the extent of uh of remodeling that would be required the requirements of the mass uh stretch code energy code and some issues with the existing um foundation on the right hand side a a concrete block Foundation that's failing uh really led us to the conclusion that that uh replacement was the was the uh the most efficient and uh sustainable solution so uh I'm happy to answer any question that you might have uh and I hope you've had opportunity to flip through the the package so you you've seen what's uh what's what's proposed well thank you very much um just a little bit of introduction again uh this property was basically originally built in 1948 uh technically uh is considered uh potentially historically significant and why it's here today under chapter 158 uh there was no Form B Ma's uh done on this property I guess at the time it probably wasn't 75 but or the uh reservation consultant you know decided it was not worthy at that time or to spend time and money to uh provide a u a review of the property but having said that it is a very an interesting property and interesting building um and I guess what we should do initially uh I'd like to look at what you're proposing but why don't we just uh go right to the the element of historical significance uh because we need to determine that is it historically significant or not and whether or not we want want to pursue I would just quickly oh thank you put that up I would like to say that if this was a new house on that property uh I think is really nice in terms of uh you know meeting what was there and uh the so-called streetcape of uh of what what you're proposing but that's not our purview having said that I I guess what I'd like to have is some comments from Members relative to the issue of whether or not we consider this property from what we've seen on the side visit and the drawings presented is it historically significant and we do want to exercise our review under chapter 158 or not so um I'm going to start with the new member Nancy um well actually my favorite part about being on the commission is the actual history of the house so I did a little bit of research and just I think to me the most significant thing if there is significance to this house in particular is actually that it is in Chatham's first real subdivision Harbor Coes was um developed the plan was submitted by um um AB SMI from Cleveland Ohio um for 90 Lots surrounding the old Fisher elderidge Farmhouse um it was submitted in Boston and Barnstable in 1948 according to my brief deed research it looks like that when the parcel 21 which is what this house sits on that it was actually transferred in 1949 it was still just described as a lot so it may not have been built and then the next transfer I can find in the records is 195 7 um when it was definitely built but it may so it may be on the cusp of even our um timeline so um so I think that personally I'm not sure that this Falls within a historically significant house in terms of um who built it and owned it they seemed like great people who uh built it were probably from Naples Florida or they were snowbirds they wintered in Florida and summered but I could not find anything significant to our history or to okay so um but I do sorry to take this long but I do think that and you probably have and I haven't been part of it that we need to start thinking about what significance means in terms of 1950s homes um subdivisions collections of homes that were built um as subdivisions and I would love to explore that more yeah yeah well we'll talk about that later but that is a subject I wanted to address again yes don't think this house is has historical significance okay simple Bob uh Mr Collins as I suggested to you yesterday I was going to ask you about the criteria that would make it historic significant uh Nancy has already kind of referred to the lack of a really famous person that owned it but do you have any light to shed on those criteria about architectural significance and people who are signif or important in the cultural e economic social and political history of the town we do not I I think uh as Nancy said the the uh record uh the town records indicated 1948 I'm not absolutely convinced that it was built in 48 but that's the only only timeline that we could find and um and it was a fairly humble Cape uh even perhaps a half Cape shape so uh beyond that its ownership up until recent with the with the hits uh ownership um we we could not and do not know of any significance or significant Providence to the home okay thank you that's all I have Jenna no I think if it's a uh at before a lot of additions I think it really was a Charming Cape um and of course a fabulous view but um I don't think it has historical significance I think the best part of it is that the comp the compound the family owns the houses around it and I think they're keeping that which is great Robert I just yep I'm just curious about the uh Association there is there any uh powers above or that you had to go to to what you're going to do there I believe Janine is on the call and uh she and Jamie probably could address that uh better than I sorry excuse me well I missed the could you repeat yes uh this house is in Association okay and having been president of Association before the minute something like this happens all the energies come out yeah good morning uh Jamie Norcross representing Janine Hoy um the restrictions are expired in this particular subdivision so there's no active uh plan review or anything of that nature okay in Massachusetts uh those restrictions are only valid for 30 years of publ uh if it's before 1962 it's 50 years and if it's after 1962 it's a 30-year time period unless don't know that I live in an association too and somebody tried to enforce it we went if you want to try something difficult get 30 homeowners to agree on new restrictions now we were trying to get the town to take over our uh our street and oh my God it was worse than a town meeting near impossible so anyway Robert of course uh I I like the house uh just the way it is um uh sometimes less is more so uh it's I don't find it historical the existing house so I just wish you all well thank you very much well I guess in in summary I I kind of agree with the comments and I appreciate ny's these research and and the comments and you know you you walk down to see such a Charming house and meet the Charming owner who I just see on the screen uh and you know we hate to see it go and I'll be honest with you you uh considering some of the homes in chadam which really needs work you know and we've been dealing with I think you and I discussed this years ago and I haven't done a damn thing since then the issue of demolition by neglect yep and certainly this house is not been neglected you know and uh I'm sure there are things that always need to be done in any house but uh kind of sorry to see it go uh but by the same token I think what you're proposing is uh you know is okay considering what from my perspective not that we have design r view Authority in that in that view so I think we seem to have consensus uh Mr Vice chair you want to make a thank you see what my she does she gives me cards public comment she she's nicer than I like she's nicer than the former one used to go Frank sorry okay so any public comment anybody in the audience or in out there in the uh world like to make a comment all right seeing none Mr Mr Lear okay I move the chadam historical commission finds that the building located at 289 C Pine Road is not historically significant because it does not meet any of the definitional criteria in section 58-28 B or C of the bylaw therefore the commission does not impose a demolition delay I second second thank you Steph okay no other comments we'll take a roll call Bob yes Stephanie yes Janet yes Robert yes Nancy yes and the chair votes yes thank you very much Michael thank you thank you good to see you good to see you too okay guys uh we have one additional business thing we have to approve which is under new business the administrative approval and ratification a ratification of administrative approval for 489 stage Harbor Road uh I looked at this and I'm sure who was it was it you Janet who looked at the house um or Bob I did too Bob okay and this was a simple uh window addition in the rear of the house and under our administrative approval process Nancy this is something new we've done where uh where there are small changes and modifications even though a house may be in an historic area or have an historic uh you know we we provide a a process where the chair and one or two members of the commissions independently look at it and say no this does require a full a full hearing and it's it seems to be working I know everybody appreciates certainly the public the applicants appreciate it not having to go through a a big deal you know when when they're making small changes all right so having said that we need a motion to approve ratify the administrative approval I move that the commission um ratify the administrative uh permission given to the window change at 489 stage Harbor Road I'll second thank you very much okay no comments Bob yes Seth yes Janet yes Robert yes Nancy yes and the chair vote yes thank you very much okay old business uh just quickly uh we had our presid preservation Awards uh me ceremony uh on Sunday uh thank those members who did attend uh I would hope for more to attend because it was quick it was about an hour's worth the the orderves were great and there was some nice wine and and more importantly the the applicants uh who had received Awards uh Andor the architects who were involved in it were extremely you know they were very happy Happ that they their efforts were been recognized U and I think it's something we've been doing for more than 20 years because I've been on here 20 some years and I think it was existed before me uh and and I think we certainly Contin continue thank you very much to Christina uh for all her work and working with the Historical Society uh to try to make this uh a quick process that we do that and I think as you aware because town uh specifically through uh the uh Community Development uh Miss Katie Donovan is taking on some of the the cost of it you know we appreciate it that effort and we do it every two years rather than every year we've we've had one year we had like 10 applications another one we have you know two so you know I think it's working out any other comments from that nope thank you uh on the next item on the old business uh the the contract is been has been issued to palal effectively if you read my notes that I have there what we're asking palal to do is prepare the documentation for the historical commission to submit to mass historic the eligibility of the William and an Nicholson home site archaeological site as a national register site uh the archaeologists both Craig cardier who did the Dig over him a couple of years and uh the archaeologist uh Holly herbster who did our townwide survey they strongly believe that this dig and the results and the findings are worthy of recognition on the national register and I think it would be great for us the town the uh conservation Foundation who owns the site and the Nickerson Family Association so it's a process you know nothing happens right away we submit a letter to mass historic with Dr documentation Mass historic will return to us a letter and say yes we think it's eligible or not assuming they say it's eligible we take the next step which we got to find funding which used to come from CPA anyway um and I'm looking at my CPA representative I'm looking B okay well anyway and we and we we have to find another way to to get funding because the funding is that now Holly who even though does a lot of work needs to combine all of that in a formal report to mass historic to say we want to submit it assuming they say yes it is it is in fact eligible or is in fact should be submitted then the next step is this documentation is then submitted to the national no excuse me the next step is a quarterly review by mass historic commission have a the commission itself beats every quarter and they review applications and say yay and a and if they say yes it is then it is submitted to the National Park Service you know which is the final step in getting it listed it's it's a process you know which is good you know we just don't list everything and you get turned down like we did with Stage harber Road when we try to convince that but in Stage harber Road we failed in the first step we couldn't get more than maybe 10% of the residents on Stage harber Road to agree this should be eligible um Nancy I I I mentioned that because you know you had mentioned the the idea of uh areas and development you know when the historical commission did its initial work back in the in the 90s you know uh generating form BS and area form A's there were quite a few areas that they thought should be eligible in fact Christina and I both were looking at U the idea of these uh villages and especially in South chadam you know that boy this is this is great it's still 1930s and and and how do we what do we do to protect it and quite honestly it's up to the commission to take the initiative so we need to talk about that more in the future um the next item uh the monoy theater property uh it's still going on guys just so you know uh the uh the applicant uh has demolished the two structures on the property which were not historically significant according to the hbd C and they allowed them to demolish the the uh this the costume shed which was really bad condition and also the barn which the sets were built so those were both demolished the the court case which is the applicant His Name Escapes me for a minute Clark you know okay is looking for he is appealing the zba decision not to allow him to build certain number of homes in the in the upper part of the property and they turned him down he went to court I believe the actual trial is going to occur within weeks so when there's a decision there if he's allowed to to uh to build houses up there then his intention and this is personal information you know is to proceed with uh the restoration of the Washington tailor house which is the property on Main Street which is a very historic property and the the theater you know to do a restoration there his efforts as presented to the hbdc and to the uh to the zba it was the intention if this is all allowed to proceed he will convert the theater back to a theatrical situation it's not going to be the monomo theater you know Ohio University but some kind of a commercial theater operation there hopes Springs Eternal you know uh that we're able to save those properties uh but again this is not our purview other than fact that we've always been interested in it and is a decision of the historic business district we have no purview but i' like to keep myself and the public involved at one point we were attempting to submit the Washington tayor house and the the theater Bond uh you know for a national register res res uh designation we proceeded in the first step but the applicant uh the construction claw CL construction has taken it over and has preceded so at one point or another you know those two properties the theater and the Washington tayor residence will get listed as a potentially National register site which is good that's all on that the uh the boat house I guess we all attended town meeting sorry to be so personal about this uh but Hope Springs Eternal for the return of the boat house um and I guess we just have to wait to see what the uh the town does and the department heads and the Selectmen uh to try and um reduce the cost of the efforts on 90 Bridge Street and hopefully find a a pop a way to bring the boat house the boat house is sitting there you know it's been closed up and ready for shipment and the funds are there for that but the problem is the town needs more money to prepare the site to bring the boat house back so this is a town issue and um we just like theater we just sit and watch and jump in when we can I think that's it in terms of old business uh on what do we have anything on the status of demolition delays Christina no so things are saying there you know by the way just quickly uh Bridge Street I guess 322 Bridge Street you know withdrew his application and we haven't heard anything on what's happening there and 320 barli that was that home where we uh we didn't feel that the property that he was proposing and and and is not applied to zba again so we're kind of held out as well as Highland Avenue where we reaffirmed our decision uh but that is going to run out to him and he's probably going is has is going to zoning it is going to zoning okay good so that good but that's where we are um anything else anybody else have anything they want to bring up to the commission okay we have a next meeting on um June okay we're all going to check our phones to see when the next meeting is June 4th June 4th okay and we do have applications we have one for the 4th and we have two for the 18th okay so uh that's we do have two future meetings all right uh if there's no other business I'll entertain a motion for adjournment I move to ajour I second second thank you very much no other comments boy we're going to break a record here uh misser yes Miss Hamilton yes Miss Tennyson yes M Ste Mr Stevenson Stevens yes Nancy bar yes and chair VES thank you very much I appreciate everybody's attention and U we'll see you uh in a couple of weeks [Music] [Music] for