e [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome chadam to the what will become a joint session of the chadam select board and the chadam Council on Aging board of directors um of June 25 2024 please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly Hereafter for scheduled and On Demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device if anyone else is recording the meeting please notify the chair I don't see anybody in the room is there anybody online I don't see anybody online um pursuant to Governor he's March 29 2023 signing of the acts of 2023 extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law General Law chapter 38 a section 20 until March 31 2025 this joint meeting of the chadam select board and chadam Council on Aging board of directors is being conducted in person and via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order a reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 1 15 08 945 4410 conference ID 203 386 491 pound sign or join the meeting online via M Microsoft teams through the link in the posted agenda while this is a live broadcast and simal cast on chadam TV x uh Xfinity channel 1072 despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide realtime access we will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible um just to note that we will invite the um Council on Aging board of directors to join us when we reach the item in the agenda that concerns them jointly with us um I will establish a quorum now uh select board member dykens and select board member shell is present select board member necastro present and select board member uh Mets president um we have uh a somewhat different agenda this evening our first item is public announcements and agenda requests and then we have a public hearing um concerning uh the possibility of prohibiting parking on seus seew street uh pursuant to a recommendation of the uh Traffic Safety Committee uh then we have uh a review of the final draft feasibility study findings for the existing Center for active living at 193 Stony Hill Road and at that point that at the point of that Community Forum uh we will invite the uh Council on Aging board to join us up here and convene their meeting um next we'll have comments on the public comments on the business agenda itself and by the way the the public will be invited to participate in the community Forum which is item three our business agenda is uh a reference of a petition protective zoning bylaw to the planning board and we have a couple of appointments and reappointments to to make so with that I will start uh with an invitation for public announcements and agenda requests um do we have any from the board yet go ahead uh y all right thank you Mr chair um just want to actually in my uh parking wreck Lon hat at the moment I was speaking to Frank MSA the other day and he asked uh if we could um in regards to the chadam windmill group and the uh Staffing of the Godfree windmill over at Chase Park um to stress the need for both um volunteers and um paid staff to continue running the mill for the upcoming season um I understanding is one of the doin um is not returning leaving one paid vacancy um on the staff um but we need a both balance of of you know volunteers and a paay position uh in order to fully um you know function and uh facilitate the operations of the faciliity so um that is my pitch tonight so if anyone if you were interested or if you know of anyone interested please spread the word thank you yeah go ahead jefff thanks Michael yeah given the Monstrous success of the uh bike and and walking uh path on George rder Road and the wonderful job the town did on Queen Road I'd just like to revisit where we are with the respect of overall plan for sidewalks in town not immediately pressing but I don't want to lose track of the fact that we have a plan and that I want to we should be baking it into our our Capital budgets um as we go forward that that chadam is becoming very much so and it's becomes much much more Salient of late a walking bicycling and pedestrian town so I'd like to continue to support that effort thanks thank you um I have one um and with me I'm doing this on behalf of Shireen Davis um who participated um with uh Senator seir and representative Peak uh in an informational meeting of the Bureau of ocean Energy Management um which has recently completed its uh environmental review uh of the Gulf of Maine offshore wind research uh initiative um the um the initiative has has invited a um comments there's actually an open comment period from uh until July 22 2024 and Shireen has asked that we put on the agenda for our next meeting um a discussion of the uh the project and um the impact on chatam uh and um the submission of a comment letter directly from chadam so we'll note that and and put that on the agenda for for July 9 uh Mr Keon do you have an announcement I do good afternoon Ted Ken Coast resource director uh we had sent out last week early in the week a public announcement with some good news relative to uh frankly unexpected dredging by the Army Corps of Engineers at stage Harbor when I coordinated with them in the fall didn't seem likely that they were going to come but then a few weeks ago they did confirm that they were in fact able to come unfortunately two days after the release went out I got the uh information that the dredge had mechanical issues at that time uh they weren't certain what the problem was uh it was starting to look not very good that maybe the dredge would have to go back to Wilmington which is its Home Port for Shipyard repairs um I waited through the weekend didn't really have any updated news but this morning uh I did hear that the uh The Dredge it's the hopper dredge murden which has been here the last couple years uh was actually headed to New York today uh for the shipyard repairs and if I want to underline if uh they're successful in doing whatever the problem is I'm not sure Within about 5 days or so it is hopeful that they may come back there's a lot of ifs and Mays and hopes but right now it's still uncertain I just want the public to know that contrary to the release that was going to uh or indicated that the dredge would be here frankly Thursday for a 12-day period is uncertain um if they do come I don't know whether or not they will in fact be able to have the full 12 days but at least we'll get something I guess the only sort of takeaway good news is that the channel this year is pretty good it hasn't degraded we were able to get the county to do some work this past winter uh so if they are not able to uh make it this year that you know it should be okay for the season and I've been assured that the money that they have available presumably would be available to come back next year so I just want to let people know that they don't see the dredge it's because it's you know may not be coming or it's going to come but not when we said so okay thanks very much I appreciate that and we'll keep our fingers crossed um anybody else in the room I see car is that Carolyn McCullen uh with her hand up I'm recognizing you if that's you yes it is can you hear me yep we can hear you okay great I have uh agenda request and an announcement um so we have a pending agenda request the partnership for to review our charge but we also would like an opportunity to discuss um reducing our membership we currently have nine and we'd like to go back down to seven um so that we don't have uh trouble getting a quorum at our meetings so I'd like that to be added and then I also have a public announcement um I just want to let the public know that um in our meetings we have our meetings are going to be the second Wednesday the meeting will start at 10:30 and we're going to have a question and answer session at the end of every meeting so about um 11:15 the last 15 minutes of every meeting we're welcoming the public to come uh our sustainability housing and sustainability director Gloria mcferson will be there to answer any housing questions and um we just want everybody to know that that they're free to come and whatever topic as long as it pertains to housing we'll try to um answer their questions they can show up in person it will be uh a remote uh meeting also or they can email their questions so just want to let the public know thank you thank you Carolyn and all of that is duly noted and and and will be U agenda um any others either in the room or online do we have anything else online no one else okay moving right along our next item is a public hearing and I will ask uh Mr dykin to read the notice please thank you Mr Shell the chadam select board will hold a public hearing on Tuesday June 25th 2024 at 5:30 p.m. in the large meeting room at the Town Office Annex 261 George Ryder road to consider the prohibition of parking on the length of C View Street both North and souths side from Main Street to Shore Road except for previously approved loading zone at the rear entrance to the chadam bars in main building all interested parties are encouraged to participate either in person or remotely via the link in the posted agenda sign the select board uh I think you're up sir yes good evening Andy Goddard chadam Police I'm the liaison to the Traffic Safety Committee um little bit of History the uh Traffic Safety Committee received a request for review from the chadam golf advisory committee uh specifically referring to the crosswalk that crosses from one of the greens onto the sidewalk on the other side it's a diagonal sidewalk and their concerns were um that it was very narrow trying to get through there sight lines being blocked um carts having a hard time and golfers uh pedestrians with golf carts uh having a hard time getting across there um the members of the committee usually do a site visit just prior to the meeting when we have these types of requests so they get firsthand knowledge of it um so as they were having their discussion the discussion expanded be above and beyond just this one crosswalk issue and examine C viw Street specifically the area highlighted in green here um specifically and their concerns were that there's really not a lot of room on the south side of that of seu street where the cars are currently allowed to park and it's causing vehicles to have to cross into the oncoming Lane to pass if they're going from Main Street towards Shore Road and then conversely coming in the Direction they'll have to stop and await other vehicles coming through basically it brings it down to a on lane road which creates a safety hazard there um so through their discussion their their discussion resulted in a recommendation that parking be prohibited on the length of SE View Street so on the map here you'll see there's a small green area there that I estimated is about 20 cars or less that are able to park there um that would be the real change um otherwise the rest of the street in both directions is already a no parking area with the one exception of a loading zone right outside the back entrance to the kitchen for the the main end at the chadam bar's in and then I've got some pictures the picture in the upper leftand corner which is in your packet that's a a picture showing because of the fence how little room cars have to get off to the side of the road to get off the paved surface and then if we could move move that to the next ones I've got various photos there showing the different views the one on the upper right is that diagonal crosswalk and you can see how the cars encroach on both sides there it makes it very difficult pedestrians and golf cart people have to kind of peek out and sneak out to to get a a quick peek before they come out um and yeah so there's some other uh I was up there for quite a bit that day that I was taking those photos and you can see can we go back to the first page of this please in the lower leftand corner that's just one of the several vehicles that I took pictures of as they're coming up from Main Street headed towards Shore Road the vehicles Force the oncoming Vehicles out across the yellow line and into the oncoming Lane of traffic and this is a constant all day during the day every day all summer long so that's why the Traffic Safety Committee voted unanimously to make this recommendation to make that area there also prohibited in parking okay uh should I uh let the public have a comment as before we have anything to say up here any comments from the public yes sir Mr Phillips Sir with all due respect to Mr Goddard in that but um how long has the course been like this and how many accents have we had does anybody know so I've done some research in our inhouse system going back as far as 2000 there's been some crashes there um very minor in nature um and usually it involved uh chattam bars in vehicles making deliveries to and from all right um I think this is a terrible idea to ban this I mean it's been uh there like that for a while uh we haven't had any major crashes uh would really complicate parking um for CBI because there's a lot of cars that park there so um I think this is a bad idea and you guys should not uh do a and thank you thank you uh yes ma'am good evening Joan Craig I'm the chair of the Traffic Safety Committee on that day the 23rd of May uh many of us went down down the street we've been down it many times anyway uh at different times during the day and I went down at noon at that time I went down uh the most of of the cars were parked on the street because as uh Lieutenant Gard said it impacts the side there's not enough room for the for them to get off the street when I went down I turned around at chadam bars and came back and when I came back could you show um the pictures excuse me of all the uh cars this the third one yes so when I came back um I am just going to point out to you um could you do the next shot is there another one after that I think that's it so I was coming back towards the crosswalk which is very difficult to see first of all because the cars are impacted so closely to it two cars were coming towards me I had to back up and pull into a driveway the end of a driveway in order to get off site so those two cars could pass me and they both waved thank you because there was no way that we could pass each other comfortably without somebody backing up now this was in May and I know that summertime it's going to be busy but I also cringe on the fact that in the winter or in bad weather it's very very dangerous with regards to chattan Bar's employees they have parking elsewhere we have been in touch with chatton bars and the gentlemen who overseas that has parking areas and it's up to chattan bars to make sure that their employees Park where they're supposed to they're parking here when they actually are taking they're not using spaces that have been um either rented leased or made possible for the employees and this has been an ongoing issue so I wanted to clarify that too thank you thank you very much um any other comments Jeff this has been longstanding issue on cvu Street um I I you know on the RV weekend golf advisory committee is adamant that we do something about it that that the parking there is dangerous you drive down the street there are vehicles on your right you literally have to go into the other lane to get by them and you have oncoming traffic all the time the crosswalk is initially we of itself it's it can barely see it needs to be painted we need to highlight the safety measures there crosshatches if appropriate if they continue if we need them perhaps won't if we have abandon parking there to some degree when we think about we've we've ban barcliffe we've B chatton barav and nowu you know we're we're taking parking away from it's primarily chatton bar Zen folks let's let's call it what it is and it's incumbent upon and Joanie said it well it's it's incumbent upon Chad and baren great neighbors love them deeply but it's incumbent upon them to find alternative parking for their employees because it's it's just not tenable where it is now the the spaces that folks use are right behind the ninth the ninth hole so cars get hit with golf balls and you know they scatter and it's just it's just too tight it's just too tight so I I believe I'm very much in favor of banning parking there um I think frankly it's a no-brainer I disagree vly with Mr Phillips I I think that it's something we need to do and we should do it quickly fully supported by the golf advisory committee fully supported by the Traffic Safety Committee it's a matter of safety and Common Sense frankly thanks Dean chairman shelle may I speak well I had just recognized Vice chairman uh necastro we'll will will'll let you speak next thank you so much y thank you Mr chairman U Lieutenant guarded um the issue of displacement of parking spaces has come up when we ban parking uh on other streets do you see that as an issue here are these mostly CBI employees that are parking there do we know in in my opinion they are all the times that I've gone down there in the last couple of months to observe most of the vehicles that are parked there are chatam bars and employees they Park exit they're in full chattam bars in uniform and of whatever division they're in and then walk over the Inn I go in there later in the day and they're coming out and getting into those cars so the difference between this particular area and barff a and chattam Bar's AV is this is this is not catering to the fish Pier or catering to downtown or catering to claf Landing this seems to be mostly catering to employees and to to elaborate on um what M Craig said um we have spoken to the chattam bar in sta uh management staff there they have secured off-site parking they provide shuttle service to and from those off-site parking spaces so they have made the effort to provide parking for all their employees offsite so this area here isn't really needed by them um and I think that that difference really highlights why this is a this is a really good idea to clear this area out for safety have they expressed any position I don't know if they're here tonight they have they expressed any comment on this proposal the manager that I talked to did not he just went to Great Lengths to explain how that they've made alternate arrangements for parking okay um just one last question and Jeff mentioned the crosswalk and it's in the report that it's it needs to be painted can that crosswalk um be be painted as we have downtown is there any Prohibition in our regulation I would have to refer that to uh director phy on that um my guess would be that it could be colored any which way we wanted it to be um I think the issue is not so much that um as it is the the cars that are impinging on the sight lines coming off the golf course right I just think as an additional safety remedy M um I I fully support this proposal I think it's the right thing to do do but um others may want to speak and I'll listen to what they have to say Thank you Mr chairman oh I'm sorry yes yes sir uh online yes Mr chairman thank you so much for allowing me the opportunity I think uh could you s forgive me if you wouldn't mind identifying yourself please sure Edward Abbott I'm at9 seie Street the easiest way to look at where I live is where the golf carts come off the golf course on to seie Street I live with this every day for the last 15 years um in 2016 I became before this honorable body to suggest this very move that for Public Safety we need to not have parking on that spot for the last uh 15 years our family has watched more accidents be uh almost happening at that spot whether it's someone walking or golf carts coming across that area and the time has come to do exactly what the the traffic committee is recommending it's time it is time um we have I I've submitted to the count to to this group the the uh the board of Selectmen two letters expressing Our concern about Public Safety um you're on notice that there are many issues between the influx of the car parking to the right you know going into the left lane um we want CBI who are wonderful neighbors um to be able to bring their trucks in but this little tiny strip that pushes cars into the middle of the lane in the middle of golf carts coming back and forth and many of these golf carts are driven by folks under 18 and we sit on our front porch and as I said in my letter to you today we have stadium seating watching this dangerous activity go on the time has come um as been recommended by the chattam police department back from uh deputy chief cell to Lieutenant Gard today this is a danger to chadam Residents to the golfers to visitors and it's an EAS easy fix it's an easy fix so we are my wife and I are fully support of uh prohibiting parking there it won't it it's not going to affect anyone anyway um and if you if anyone has any doubt come join me on July 4th weekend and watch the the insanity that goes on at that intersection with all the golfers coming in and out but anyway thank you than you so much I appreciate your time I appreciate all the work that you do thank you very much did yeah Cory thank you Mr chair U I'm going to take it in two segments first of all um I'm extremely familiar with this area um the request from the golf course advisory Commander initial perspective the the sidewalk um is clearly needs to be cleaned up it needs to be repainted with the white stripes on you know delineating the passage it needs to be filled in green or whatever appropriate color there is is for for visual notification and if we're narrowing it to the golf course initial request I would hash it out to a half of parking space on each side to make it wider that is from that box um making it more visually standing out is fine my issue with these conversations we we've talked about this on other locations other roads is when you where are we going to push the traffic because these cars are going to go somewhere if they're not all CBI employees um and if they're people who are using the golf course or visiting neighbors or going downtown or doing whatever where do we push them out to another place so we're not going to magically have these cards disappear they're still going to be somewhere um and I don't I I just have a philosophical issue with things being done peace meal like this it is not the greatest Road go down in the summertime that is anyone knows that um and you you mentioned the only um I guess incidences or vendor vendors you'll call them are coming from have U that are on record have been mostly delivery vehicles from CBI um and and so we're kind of an isolated source of of concern you don't have this normal pedestrians being reported in in the data of offender Benders is that an accurate prescription or so when I when I do a search I search our police log for any cases that have been created on that section of the street for any motor vehicle crash that we've recorded from in any level of severity um the issue is that that doesn't record the near misses that doesn't record the potential road rage issues the potential issues of cars coming head-to-head to each other unable to pass having to back up to move around things like that the ones that we have recorded have been some side swipes from Vehicles trying to pass chattam bars in trucks making deliveries of Linens and other things to the various buildings along in there that are parked people try to go around them they clip the corner one of them they clipped a step on one of the vehicles um so I think honestly I think we've been lucky that we haven't had anything major there um we've been fortunate in that sense um and if I could speak on your question about displacement MH this is a little bit different than some of the other places that you have considered in the past in the sense that there are places other places for these vehicles to be displaced too the two groups that you mentioned the first being chatt and Bar's an employee as we' said they have another place to park the other would be the golf course members or the golf course uh players they have a parking lot right next to their building right next to the to the first te there um that they are taking very strong steps to try and make sure that it's just for the golfers and that's a separate issue so I think so far as displacement this is actually much less of an impact than some of the other questions that have been considered by this board in the past I think I partially disagree because I have seen firsthand a lot of employees from Saturn bars in who have you know parked on Main Street and then walk up the hill so this is probably a little bit of closer you know uh convenience for them eliminating this they're going to push them probably back into town just this is an observation um again I just have a little philosophical issue with doing this peace meal because um I think going back to the initial ask from the golf course advisory committee fully on fully supportive that I would have like to get that cleaned up uh Banning it I have I have some mixed feelings so if I could expand on one other thing please ju when you mentioned uh chattar in employees parking on Main Street the two locations that the chattar in is secured for parking one is the parking lot at the Holy Redeemer Church on Highland Avenue um that's Monday through Friday they can park there the whole time which is a huge parking lot and it's actually closer than walking down Main Street the other location is is in North chadam behind the post office and they're actually running a shuttle bus back and forth from there they've rented spaces from the uh the owners there so there's there's multiple options for them good for the in employees to park elsewhere um and the the manager that I spoke to even commented that a lot of his employees that park at the Holy Redeemer now have the little battery powered scooters that they keep in their trunks so they can go back and forth so they're they're making plans and accommodate trying to accommodate this different parking Arrangement all right good um Mr chairman may I may I just as a witness on that street make a comment you you may but I'm I'm gonna I'm GNA talk as tell you about something I learned in law school that you know when you've when you've you've spoken to the judge and he's ruled or about to rule in your favor you're supposed to sit down go ahead what do you have to say look at me I'm sitting down I'm sitting down thank you sir I appreciate that okay okay I I and I um I'm about to get a motion but I do I want to say two things one I am sympathetic to Corey's point that th this is a PE we we do this with respect to every you know problem area uh and we don't get around to addressing the big picture problem which is parking throughout particularly during the season that we're just beginning um that to me is is not a reason uh necessarily to um decline the recommendation that's in front of us here and that's the second Point uh when when we get a recommendation from the people who are charged with responsibility for over overseeing and supervising and staying on top of a particular area particularly when it's multiple um uh recommendations uh as strong as the one we've got in front of us from my perspective I I I just don't see how you do anything other than accept the recommendation and approve it so with that I'll take a motion uh Mr chairman I move to prohibit the parking on prohibit parking on the length of cie Street both North and South sides from Main Street to Shore Road except for previously approved loading zone at the rear entrance to the chattar in main building I'll second it but I would like to amend the motion to include a request to the Department of Public Works to paint uh to color paint the um interior part of the crosswalk so I'll second with that as long as you accept that I do accept that thank you okay I think we have a motion in a second all those in favor Mr dykin I Mr Shell says I Mr necastro and Mr Mets respectfully no okay thank you Mr chair yes if I might we will have you having a report from the traffic uh safety commission I think the cap cot commission is weighing in fairly soon Jill in a week or two I think it's next week next week okay so you will see a larger bigger picture of the traffic situation in the park and situation in chat thanks okay thank you very much um our next order of thank you thank you lieutenant we much appreciated uh our next order of business is our review of the final draft of feasibility study um findings for the existing um Center for active living at 193 Stony Hill Road um could I invite the um Council on Aging board up here to convene your meeting and while you're doing that I'll say that we're I think the way we're going to have this subject introduced is um U Mr whan and Mr rabber is it uh will present the the information and the findings uh of the study and then presumably will have some Community input and some input from the board oh oh well we screwed up we we left one short sorry about that okay thank you so um Madame chairman if I could invite you to convene your meeting and establish a quorum that would be lovely thank you do you have your yeah uh you know I'd say rookie mistake but that'd be silly um I'd like to convene a vote to see if we have a forum uh Quorum Joan Bagnell here Betty Magnuson here Ann Ryan here Stan Mansfield here Pat B chair is here Nancy Fields here uh laa Everett is absent okay thank you with your permission we'll turn it over to Mr whan and Mr raber and I going to be extremely quick here uh Terry whan uh principal projects operations administrator and again this is in in the in your you had a uh staff report uh had the um um working drawings included in here so again we're following up on the March 18th meeting uh with uh the final draft preliminary findings and I'm going to quickly turn it over to Kurt raber from Catalyst uh architex to run through um providing um more context than um we had in the staff report good evening everyone again my name is Kurt rabber I'm a partner and principal architect at Catalyst architects in yarmouthport and we're glad to be back here it's been a couple months since we were here in mid-march talking about some conceptual drawings um and um kind of a list of deficiencies and a list of desires or wants um for the potential Renovations um at the uh Center for active living on Stony Hill Road um since that time we went a little deeper on the drawings and using um documents from the archives in our uh at our firm we um drew the building in 3D software and so that we could provide some visualization um of potential floor plans and potential elevation changes um at the building in um the budget that um I prepared and worked closely with terion there's actually some color coding um and in the um so your budget title page or front page of that budget sheet starts with an orange block that's kind of core building items that we really feel are things that need to get done to the building but even if nothing about the you know outward or inward uh part of the building were to change these are just kind of Maintenance items um some structural improvements update of the elevator Ada accessibility kind of U updates and so that added up to a good sum but that's in the orange block the Green Block were items that we prioritized as option 1A things that would really make the existing building work better option 1B I've colored in blue and then the budget the blue section actually includes the green and the blue so it's cumulative so the blue budget includes the green items as well um the last block on the budget is the Yellow Block and that is um again cumulative that would include the green the blue and the yellow work as it's colorcoded on this image and also on the floor plans that I'm going to go through now so this is the front excuse me one second please can I just ask do does does the green include the base the orange does the blue include the orange and the green yes it's cumulative as you go sort of them up yes thank you correct um so the uh um the top right we considered adding a dormer to make a a conference room that has a sloping ceiling that really makes the room about a third smaller than it really is so that is a dormer um the other green Dormer is to increase the size of the um function room on the second floor the blue section in the center is our idea to provide a new entry vestibule front porch and accessible entrance at the front door rather than at the rear the building through um a sort of temporary aluminum ramp if you will and then the yellow is a consideration of an addition dedicated for a senior day program I wanted to start with this is the existing building um we know that one of the biggest issues with the lower level and using that going forward for either um cfal um activities or a senior day program if it were to inhabit this space would be to do some structural upgrades to remove existing columns in the basement um the again this is all shaded in the orange because there's HVAC improvements and accessibility improvements and just general maintenance that would occur through all the square footage of the existing building existing first floor again large column in the center of the main activity room that would be removed um this does show the existing handicap ramp at the top right of the image um that's the sort of temporary aluminum ramp that's in the back um this is the second floor just showing the configuration of the existing plan but I would note that this health office or now I think it's the library office and this conference room is compromised Again by a slope ceiling and that's um shown by this cross-hatched area here which is actually the roof and it happens again in this um which was once labeled the computer room but it's the second floor sort of activity room moving to a proposed plan again the green is items that are in the 1A budget renovating this lower level so that it could be used for um the cfal uh activities a couple days a week and also potentially um if option two were not elected the senior day program could be fit up in this space the yellow portion of the left is the proposed addition um that takes uh the existing deck that's to the right to the left of the existing kitchen and there this is a long steeply sloped parking lot on this side of the building and this uh plan considers a a fairly good size addition in that area the first floor again the the multi-purpose room out in front of the kitchen would be renovated a new steel beam would be put across the ceiling so that could remove the column that would also support the floor uh on up above um and remove the column on the second floor we've taken the back area which was an entrance and a ramp and two offices in this area and made a larger welcome Lobby and then we proposed to reconfigure the uh admin area the two offices that were here would come inside the admin block um and then there'd be a new reception desk here where everybody all visitors to the building would come through the on come through the new front porch through a vestibule ENT the lobby check in and then can use the um entire facility um the yellow again is the same footprint um as the foundation uh on the lower level this however is dedicated this whole wing on this side is dedicated to be a new Senior Day program it's sort of separate entrance um separate bathrooms office respit space and um potentially there's enough yard left on the left side to actually create some outdoor space which we'll show you in the site plan in a moment um this Entrance Ramp here would have a dedicated drop off for the pickup and um um also for um shuttle bus to take participants of the senior day program um you know to and from home um the next page the again on the far right the uh what was the office next to the library becomes a second smaller meeting room currently meetings are held inside the Library space but we thought it would be nice to create a dedicated meeting space and then enlarge the conference room this cross-hatched area and this rectangle indicates the new floor area that would be uh obtained by Framing a new shed Dormer and the same thing over uh in this um activity room on what is now the left wing the addition proposed um on the second floor is not very large at all but it does have a very important aspect has a new enclosed exits there to get people safely out of the building um we do create a little bit of extra office space there as well or potentially this wall could go away and this St these two offices could become one new larger meeting room or activity space um there is Plumbing so that could be an arts and crafts room there's a lot of potential things that that could become and then this is unfinished attic space which would presumably probably have mechanical systems for the uh dedicated for the new addition um we wanted to show sort of the building elevations and color code those as well to show people sort of what the different budgets how they affect the um the shape and uh the phasing of this work if necessary um again the whole building gets upgrades including structural improvements HVAC improvements accessibility improvements uh budget 1A adds the green areas the budget uh 1 a plus 1B is the blue area and then the final budget in the Yellow Block includes sort of green blue uh and yellow space and um this is the the top of the page is the view of the what would the new rear elevation would look like and this would be the elevation on the left side or the west side or South um this is a um site development drawing um the sort of orange shaded section is the existing building the blue shows that sort of new front entrance and front Portico the yellow of course is the Senior Day program Edition and then we proposed to um as we uh did many years ago um we once proposed uh with Coastal Engineering uh a plan that reconfigured the parking lot to the right side and you can see the property line sort of goes diagonally through that existing parking lot and some of the spaces in there are actually uh deed or belong to the condominium development behind but we think we can sort of renovate this uh parking lot area by creating a detail uh sorry dedicated driveway on the right side that is the access to the condo association in the rear here and then a new improved parking area in here with a couple of tree islands and a one-way traffic flow and then a one-way traffic flow in front of the building which adds two accessible parking lots uh spaces imediately adjacent to a ramp to the front porch a little Terrace in the front which is a sort of an activity uh area or just a kind of communal space to Greek people and then as the driveway comes down to to the South um it widens so that there's plenty of space along this sidewalk for shuttle buses to pick up and drop off um participants of the senior day program and then as I mentioned before this far side of the site where there's currently a steep parking lot we'd like to Terrace this area and create a senior day program Garden um which could be accessed directly from the day room and then this would be a landscaped slope down to another Terrace that would be outside of the lower level um and on that we can also create a little garden space next to this parking uh lot um the current uh site plan that we have only shows 22 parking spaces um at the Stony Hill location this plan considers 42 so that more than you know um it almost doubles um and sort of let's see if I can not my machine anyway um let me figure out I zoom how do I I think it's up the top yeah that might work and then you can scroll through perfect yeah I that way people can see them yeah then you can just use the down great I won't um the budget um the summary Pages kind of all I'll sort of take you through the supplemental Pages behind um are sort of the backup spreadsheets um that kind of feed into this summary again the orange block is the base costs so those are the costs that are sort of used throughout the building um not a lot has changed in this block um since we were last before you um but I would say that um since we were here in March we've uh worked with um a couple of different cost estimators looking at recent Municipal bids both done by our office and also by um some other local um construction companies we've reached out to a couple of uh of those contractors to find out a little bit more about where those costs um premiums are and they happen to be um mostly in the trades like HVAC electrical has become very very very expensive um so as we went through um these different budgets we double checked the square footage numbers um based on the uh building itself um also um updated and increased some of our per square foot costs for some of the renovation space and then we also had to increase um since March our um square foot costs for um new construction um so for the new square feet uh s the addition on average um bids are in Municipal projects are somewhere in that 600 to $650 per square foot range now um again that's considering uh public bidding prevailing wages and other requirements of chapter 149 and and building public property um in the renovation area it's sort of variable uh in the lower level where we're not really changing that much um we're spending $2 to $300 a square foot in other places where we're raising the roof um and changing out and adding new Building Systems it's more like $400 a square foot so we went back and forth on the budget shared that with an estimator shared that with a contractor we feel like these numbers are sort of lot more well tuned um to the potential project that the plans illustrate um and again um we can answer any questions about sort of these budget numbers or the plans thank you um go ahead Pat Kurt I'm having trouble visualizing if we were to go with the 1 a 1B plan where like if would the senior adult a be in the lower level yes yes okay yes and you would reconfigure that space with the room with all the the is in fact me okay yeah I was just I'm just having trouble trying to visualize that because what I have is what you have and it's um and this was the plan that we showed back in March um and we were taking out the columns so these two green rooms become sort of day rooms or activities and it was my understanding that the senior day program would only occupy this level a couple days a week right but then the other days when there's sort of no other activities these rooms could be used for other functions mhm um so the the um current budget includes the structural modifications to remove some columns building kitchenette and bathrooms and enclosing this stairwell so it becomes a sort of code compliant egress from the building um and it also considered um sort of creating a welcome space and a covered walkway to the left parking lot so this is the kind of plan if the addition doesn't happen right yeah so if if my other question would be were we to go this route the green space that you've uh so nicely put in in the the other yep would we be able to do a SI something similar here yes because we would have more space right and so the the budget is sort of set up to be kind of cumulative weing that you sort of you kind of need to do the orange block the green block would get you um the the senior day program in the lower level plus the dormers on the second floor and some structural improvements to kind of take those obstructions out of your plan yes um blue plans are sort of reorganizing the admin office area adding that new entrance vestibule and porch in the front um so that be sort of the green end the blue the yellow is sort of the much larger scheme where you've adding on to the building my other question is um when when you were here in March we had a um conversation regarding storage and when I was looking at the plans which were for the plans I have were the ones with the addition I didn't see places where we would have increased storage be for the M much moving that our lovely Anna does every time we have an event um so I've gone back to those new addition plans okay um and the addition does have a new space here in between the sort of current lower level and the proposed lower level multi-purpose room there is a mechanical equipment and potential storage here um and when we get a little further into the design it might be um some of the air conditioning equipment for this level is in this room but it could potentially be in the attic space above this addition so and then we had a dedicated room directly off this room because we figured this probably becomes the uh um exercise space and there might be weights or yoga mats or other things that sort of need to be directly uh stored right off of that space okay moving upward oops um right over that right in between the stair and the kitchen we proposed another storage room here we've labeled it kitchen storage or kitchen expansion um so that this kind of becomes the area where Meals on Wheels and and other things are immediately um accessible to the to the kitchen space and the Meals on Wheels function sort of sort of happen through this hallway out this to the Loading area U rather than through the front vestibule so Mo most of the storage that you're mentioning here is within the added uh Senior Day site that you would have my question is if we didn't have that site do we have any additional storage in the current the current building as it's is there is some room to add some closets and and um potentially you know in the green or the sort of in the Blue Zone um we could create some storage space out of one of these offices uh depending on sort of what it was that we were trying to store there okay um the there is in the lower level currently a sort of uh um Health uh health and wellness uh you know lending uh room yes um so that is still in the could would still be downstairs okay yeah that that would remain thank you I think that's it for now thank you okay anybody else from the COA before I uh yeah Nancy go ahead I have actually a number of questions and comments that I'll just try to keep it brief on this slide I think the entry the way it's designed is not very functional because you've got people coming in through the vestibule they have to go through another door to reach the receptionist but I think that the um natural tendency is going to be to just go right off to the left if their function is over there and can the receptionist see someone receptionist see someone when they're standing right Nancy Nancy you have to speak into the microphone please can the receptionist see someone when they're standing right in the vestibule door right um good point um we were trying to you know use the fabric of the existing building and sort of bring people into the same door that they have been coming through but we could reconfigure this so that the vestule will put everybody into the bigger Lobby I just think it's important that the reception to see every you know people who are coming in the door regardless of which way they're going to go once they get inside understood okay good idea um another thing is on on the page with the numbers [Music] um I could very well be doing something wrong but the numbers don't seem to be adding up when I add the million 552 and the 2, 3697 or 3691 I don't get 3 million and I can't see that number I don't get the number in in the blue 3,685 so um I just want to be sure that I'm understanding and I know you said this this will now be the third time that I should be able to take pink plus green equals blue right or well I'm my colors are kind of off from yeah so right the the top three blocks okay you know it's 1 + 2 equals 3 uh one just being one this being one this being two and this being three so 1 plus 2 equals three right no oh okay yeah so um the the top square is one cost that's another and that's another but it's kind of cumulative in ads so the third block actually has new work in it that is not included above okay and that's another one of my comments that it's really hard to tell what's included in each of the cost things I mean I saw your detailed uh pages but it didn't it didn't tell us what was actually happening in those pages okay in those segments so that would be helpful to know what's included in each each phase or whatever you want to call this right and I I I thought about having uh three floor plans for each color but it would just make this document too long so we kind of compressed it yeah and and another thing is um in Terry's memo he mentions uh displacement cost during construction and I didn't see where that was included anywhere is it included in these numbers or is that another separate um it's not included numbers yet as a a separate line item um but this the construction numbers have a contingency and an escalation and then there's another 10% contingency on top of that um so it's our thought that depending on sort of which project is considered would depend on how long the co the center for uh active living would need to be sort of transplanted to someplace else and then move back um our thought would is that if it were just the kind of the green and blue renovation areas um that the construction project might be only six months but sort of there's a move out month and a move backin month so the displacement is about 8 months um if we were doing sort of green and blue and yellow it's probably more like 10 to 12 months okay well in my opinion just my opinion we can forget adding the addition I really think we should be focusing on the footprint of the current building because frankly $7 A5 million dollar I think is untenable in chatam at this point again just my opinion but but I think we're spending too much time talking about this addition and what it gets us because I don't think we can get it Dean thank you thank you Mr chairman um there several things I wanted to say let me ask a question or two with respect to the parking and the driveway you're were talking about would we need the consent of the condo association to to add those additional parking spaces and to make that driveway uh change I believe that this driveway on the right is already the condo association's property okay so this the parking changes that are in this gray area here are all on the town's parcel um I don't know what Agreements are in place already there is some I think cross access maybe easement I'm not I'm not sure I I think the big point is here with ctt's you know so we would need to do some a little more exploration on that but the the number that he cited is keeping all within the town property bounds and you know we would need to clearly coordinate at a minimum with the um the interaction between the sites or any other um broader changes with with the private property right now there sort of two driveways that go out to the because this this path through the parking lot right here also connects to the condo association so there is kind of flow between the two right now but I'm not sure if there's legal easements so this driveway that you're showing is the one you see beyond the grass now yes this this is I'm proposing a HED r that sort of separates this cfal um parking with the condo driveway okay I just a comment on display comment on displacement um and it's a legitimate question but I I want to harp on something and this is not directed to you that I've said multiple times people were concerned about when I suggested we knock the current building down several years ago and put a new building up for six or 7 million which we could have done but people wanted something more grandiose so we went in that direction um people were concerned about displacement of programs and what would happen to the senior program if we didn't if we did that well we had displacement for 2 years for Co and our Council and aging programs survived um so kuret um in order for you I appreciate that you've done some recent um checking and corroboration of and refinement of your your budgeting numbers um but in order to have firm more firm numbers we would have to have a real design in uh undertaken is that correct am I understanding it yes I think so um we we have had mechanical engineers sort of evaluate um the heating and cooling systems we know that they're ending you know coming to the end of their useful life the town's also sought um a proposal from um massave or cap light Compact and their um Consulting Engineering Group so there there's some consensus about sort of how to improve the HVAC system ventilation um and Energy Efficiency and kind of get to an all electric building um all those kind of our we have a structural analysis of fixing some settlement issues with the existing foundation so all those things are sort of we can start to work on but to really get a better or even a bid number um I think the town would sort of be well served by picking a project limits um and starting to um go down the design Road um get some engineering done um in particular structural moves to take out columns in the lower level in in the first floor and and add thread in new steel beams um we've got some pretty robust estimates in there for this work but um doubles in the details um taking the project to sort of a 50% construction Drawing level uh would help us go back out to a a cost estimator who would line at them by line atem generate a very detailed cost analysis and and you can't do that unless until the select board selects one or more of these options you or anybody else right you have we have we have to make a decision whether we want to do anything or nothing Define the project yeah um um I I just want to make a general comment and we we could spend a lot of time every everybody could spend a lot of time going through this and I used the term when you were here in March that you re-engineered the inside of the building you really have you've made with a view to making it more serviceable which was my intent in in initiating this and I put this on the table because you know we we weren't successful in several proposals before town meeting and I don't think we can just let this sit whether there it will ever be in new building somewhere else in town some magical place that's going to emerge where we can put a put a building or not um we have an obligation to make sure that in the intermediate period we fix the problems that are in the building and we make it more welcoming and more useful and more workable I was in the building recently after the anniversary I was away when anniversary occurred I wanted to see the timeline that Laura Everett and and and yes Judy raised her hand Judy hanin put together and it's quite it's still up isn't it it's worth seeing and and what you see by the way is the tale of the wandering of of this Council aging from location to location to location um they've never really had a home until until this place um but what and I hadn't been in the building for a while and I've toured that building on a several occasions I did it once with Jeff a few years ago and it just said to me we need to do a better job to make the place more suitable for the people that work there and the people that that are serviced by the programs of the of the senior center and we need to do that whether we're ever going to have a new building or not so I'm I'm just going to cut to the Chase and say that I think the select board should decide and we can get advice from the council and aging board and from the public whether we want to take any of these options and go forward at this time in charge of the Town manager uh with the responsibility of pursuing a design plan so that um we can come back and regroup when that is done and get the firm numbers and decide whether we want to put that forward to town meeting I'll just say in generically I I could never support the the yellow because that's 7.5 mil it isn't worth spending that kind of money on this building it's cheaper to knock it down or it's certainly more cost effective effective to knock it down and put a new building up for 10 or 11 million it doesn't make any sense um the B B costs are fundamental that should be done that should be done tomorrow we should have a new elevator we should have the foundation fixed we should have that Dorma put on that room so people don't injure themselves and break their neck when they're standing up in that in that conference room um we should have a new HVAC system and I I I know Terry you've worked with the library on this we can get some Grant monies for that so there are things that should be done so I can certainly support the basee costs I can support the green costs that brings us up to 2.4 million right now I would seriously consider the blue which is 3.7 million I don't think I could go any higher than that and I'm not entirely certain about the blue but those are my thoughts I'm sorry to be so direct but I've been at this for nine years and I'm tired of it and others have been at it for longer than I and it's it's time to Fisher cut bait thank you Mr chairman thank you um anybody else here uh Jeff go ahead thank you uh Michael yeah I I'm in agreement with uh select board member Nick Castro be quite Frank um we we've been chasing we've been you know jousting with windmills if you will for nine years probably closer to a dozen years I didn't see the the timeline but I know it's been a while and with some frustration no doubt and and I I think Dean referred it to as grandiose well the land was donated to us and it was a very attractive uh anchor I believe in West chadam and I would vote forward again today however that would did not pass town meeting so I do think um we owe it to our seniors to provide them a center that's at least functional the last time I was in there I you you do hit your head in that conference room on on the on the third floor without without dorm is a no-brainer dorm in the other are is a no no-brainer and I you know I would support through blue as well I think it makes a lot of sense I think it brings a lot and I don't know about the Vesti configuration Etc I'm not an architect but I strongly um am affected by the opinion of the cfal board and the members themselves that use that are going to use this building what do they actually think can they pull off senior daycare in the space that is now created without columns in the areas that he's described is is it going to be functional is is the programming going to be um be able to be pulled off in that in that building so I I you heard what I had to say I would support I think through blue I I do I think we need to give the seniors provide the seniors a a place where they can adequately function with their programs but I want to hear from them as well um thank you go ahead thanks Mr chair um thank you Jeff um and and Dean I've been going into that building for about six years now doing many things and um I agree 100% that um $7.5 million do would never pass in the town of Chad um I I was in favor of the last building which was I don't know 10 million in in change but I believe that looking at one two and three and I think other members of the board who I have spoken to and we've not met as a board on this just to be clear would be in agreement that spending the three million would at least get us something functional would get us the ability to put the senior Adult Day program in the lower level so that people could come in and um use the room and we would still have more space on the first and second level it would also give us the opportunity to take many of the programs that we're now taking and uh putting over at the community center because Anna has done such a wonderful do job with that it would give us the opportunity to put those back where people come and I think if you go to our building you will take real note of any of the programs that are put on are heavily attended any of the lunches that we put on all of these programs are heavily attended much more so than I I will say than when I first started um spending some time down there we have a much bigger volunteer program of people who will come in and will help and I think it's we've done everything that we can do I mean we've you know weeded and cut the cut the hedges and done the work that we had to do you know not just me Laura ett who was not here I'm going to give her credit and we but we have done all we can do there's nothing more Leah can't paint anything else we've painted everything it looks nice it's bright it's white but when we have to move things around in that um dining room it's a Monumental task for an Monumental to fold up the tables and push them and pull them and try to take them downstairs in the in the elevator which is a whole another story but I do think that the members of of our board would support the 3 million because and I think it would send a message to the people in the community community that we did listen to them that we do understand you want us to have something and you want us to fix up the buildings that we have so that would be my lengthy statement thank you Mr chair thank you um go ahead Corey I'll just add my two cents worth in I mean this has been a very long conversation multiple sites multiple Town meetings multiple opinions articles newspapers letters editors etc etc etc I guess in the perfect world I wish we could do a little bit more I but I think the the voters have very clearly stated their position on what they their appetite is and what their appetite is not um you know it's not my my first choice of take this direction but I would be willing to be supportive of this um right through the blue um I think we're going to do it we got to go beyond just the base of it it that's not going to that's just not going to cut it frankly uh we got to go a little bit better a little bit more expansion um kind of think a little bit for the future so um you know the yellow is is nice and shiny and it would be wonderful to have it but the the the reality is I don't I do not believe the the voter support is out there um so to put that forward um I think would be almost a waste of our time and energy and I think we need to kind of come to a um point where we can get this thing moving along um because it's it's it's an overdue uh project so basically all this Cuts in the chase I would I'll I'll put my support through the blue and um and let's see how things navigate from there so so um I I'm I'm at the ri I I may make Dean said he was going to be direct I I think I'll make him sound indirect um number one we have to do something I I felt all along that the most important thing was that we address uh an inadequate facility for for our town and that includes the seniors but uh we we just need a a a more adequate a more capable a more flexible um facility for um uh the cfal um I still believe that I'm I'm sorry that we're looking at the options that we're looking at I would say Dean when you're saying about we could have had a deal for 6 million I mean if you go back in time you could have had a 10,000 square or 11,000 square foot building on a new site for $6.6 million but you know would have could have Shoulda is not unfortunately uh going to help us at this point um I I I will definitely itely be supportive of the so-called blue option but I want to say a couple of things about this I I am a real skeptic about and I think we need to recognize or at least I'm recognizing that and by the way rounding 3.7 down to three doesn't help um I I am a real skeptic I think that option is ultimately going to look like a lot more money than what we're talking about here I'm not an expert I'm not in any way questioning the effort that you've made here Mr rabber I I I really appreciate that you've given us something that's a good discussion item but um you know I I and not because I wanted to compare it I just went back and looked at what was the construction cost that we told the voters um the 10 um the the the 1610 uh building would be construction only not all the stuff down below the line it was $775 of square foot and that was almost two years ago so um I I and I I don't know anything about you know new construction versus um uh rehab or or renovation or whatever but um I what I'm hearing for example is that you know there's more engineering work to be done to figure out exactly what's involved uring up the floors um and the ceilings to get rid of those columns I I there's there's we we have a we we have a um an estimate here which is that and nothing more so I I at the on the one hand I I um I I want to say I'm strongly supportive of the the so-called blue option I think anything less is a real disservice and we are spending bad money uh or good money after bad if we do anything less than the blue but I I do think that we need to be to to to recognize that we're looking probably at something that's more than the 37 that's in this thing with all due respect to the effort that has been uh put into this today thank you Mr chairman can I ask yes please um I I I share your skepticism about the the numbers on the blue and how they ultimately come out that's why I was a little shaky on on on on endorsing the blue in my comments I did want to ask if we were to charge um you to come back with a design plan for the blue and then and get the the firmer cost estimates and and the numbers Pro to be too high for us would we then be able what would it take to reduce it downward to maybe something in between the green and the blue would that require much more design work um no I think um if I could go back up a couple of pages you know the part of the blue was the addition out front you know that's something that could or could be omitted could even be bid as an alternate right so that it could be sort of if it comes in at the right number We Do It um but also there was um you know a fair amount of work in just reorganizing the office space on this first floor right wing um some of that work could be um deferred okay my my concern is I didn't want us to say go ahead with the blue come back it's too expensive and then we don't do anything that's what concerns me um I do want to say for the record I did use the word grandiose I'm going to stand by that but I endorsed that grandiose proposal whether it was Middle Road or 1610 Main Street even when we were going to buy 1610 Main Street for a million dollars I supported that so uh I just really want that on the record um uh because I agree with what Mr Shell is saying this is and others this is not ideal this is trying to make the best of what we have before us um so uh I just really wanted to make those comments I'll leave that thank you Mr chairman yeah and um I me mention blue and the the the best of bule in particular because I'm because of Nancy Fields comments about how it's configured and what you know may maybe it can be sized down and be more direct and I'm not an architect but I appreciated what you had to say Nancy and I think it could be reconfigured and and is it absolutely necessary I guess was my other point to to Dean's point and to Mike Shell's point about cost uh I think Mr Shell makes an excellent point about cost these are soft yet but in order for us to really make an educated decision we need to go to the next step and say okay it's blue you know in charge uh Mr raber and others where he's going to contract with to to get us enough design work so that we can do an excellent cost estimator so we really know what we're dealing with so I certainly would support that yeah Nancy what would help me in this whole process would be in words what's included in each one of these so that I feel like I'd like to pick and choose these things are the things that I want to see included I mean you have kind of done um I'm going to say arbitrary and that's not the right word but you've picked the things that you have put in each each you know one of these categories but I think especially if we get to the point that we've just been talking about where you know we need to cut out a couple hundred, or a couple million dollars when we get real numbers if we really understood all of the components then I think would be easier to make those calls at that point because I I have no I'm you know I have no doubt that that we're going to have to make those calls at some point so that would be really helpful to me bullet points you know base I've now heard Ada added to the three things that the finance committee identified you know two years ago that needed done and then so I think that would be helpful if I may Kurt I I with all due respect in defense of of what um he's put in front of us and it's hard but you will get some indeed I got a good deal of what I think you're looking for if you go to the the the um the the the the materials in the back they help you understand how it proceeds from bass to 1 a to 1B to uh blue um and and I I think that will help you in my experience with this however it will also help you understand that this is not an alicart menu that we can pick this and this and that and the other and come out with a number that we're happy with um I I think we're going to have to pick a design and then let him do the more elaborate work somebody do the more elaborate work and then once you have that if you have to as they say value engineer it that's the point at which you do that I also if I may since I have the floor I i' like to say one other thing whatever we do I'm I've already stated my view of the world and my support for the COA but I do want to hear a an absolutely robust unanimous endorsement and support for whatever you want before we have to say yeah this is what we're going to recommend to the to to to the to the town Stan go ahead uh I think so far we've talked in um sort of in generalities but um we've also been around to other coas on the cape more specifically nearby and um looking at the design that we had in our first meeting um the key thing in any one of these uh coas is a multi-purpose room and the design that we've looked at does not really meet those needs because it's roughly the same size as uh is the current dining room which which basically is the multi-purpose room and uh when Eva was here she kept a record of uh people that were the number of people that were turned down for these meetings a very popular very popular event is luncheons because these these people just love it I've been to a whole bunch of them and um the average number of people that were turned down for lunches um when Eva was here was about 20 people and I'm not going to support anything uh that doesn't have room enough for at least 10 or 15 more people because you're you're basically you're doing it in a in a in a in a excuse my language in a half-ass manner um and the multi-purpose room which currently is the dining room uh is is is just inadequate and I think we should really zero in on the functionality of what we're looking at as opposed to the we we've talked about generalities but we really haven't got down to specifics of this room that room and so forth and um I'm not sure you're able to really ex expand and make a multi-purpose room that's going to be really functional but it's just a crime when you go around and look at every other Senior Center um and and you see these rooms uh and with the size of this building there should be some way to to make a a functional room that you can have exercise most of them have partitions so you can partition off for meals or small meetings and so forth so now now that we're thinking about doing this um I think it's important to to do it right and those are those are two things that I'm really concerned about Miss Bagel we've been had this for a long we have been at this for a very long time and every time we have a meeting something happens we can't do this we can't do that 3,000 I mean 3,680 oh okay you know very well when you build something or you fix something and you build on it's always oh by the way this is going to cost more so maybe we're looking at if four well 4 million probably close to 5 million and it's it's if we all sit and pick each room which we think is that you certainly need dormas in that upstairs because that's why we have to meet here can't even meet in the O the board can't meet in the building we need privacy we need space and if we can fix it but how long is it going to take before we get another um plan I mean cost not plan but cost the cost is going up every day and the more we wait around how long will it take to get the the um estimate of what the true cost is going to be do you know when you take out some of those things that the ceiling isn't is going to be fine or is that something that the engineers are going to the answer is no the answer is no steel beans are going to go in got engineering no but I'm I'm saying is that I know it can be done take care of it I'm confident that it can be done okay um but you know we I I think blue was fine we've got to do something we can't keep this up we got to get our act together go ahead thank you thank you Mr chair um Kurt I have a question I poured over these and I did the square footage in in these um multi-purpose rooms that that I have in front of me so on the first floor where let's say we're not doing we we we go Blue the I have to put the glasses on the the multi-purpose room that you have there which is the room that we currently use for just about everything is that going to expand because I have that at 646 square feet I don't know if that's what it is now yes that's what it is and I'm on the first floor yes that's the size currently okay and then I look at the second floor plan and I see that the computer room that we utilize now is 641 ft as well is that 641 Square F feet with the Doral pushed out yes because the the we've measured that floor area kind of at the carpet level yeah not at the Headroom level uh but the the full amount of that space would be um 641 right okay and then I looked in the lower level and I looked at a multipurpose room that's there that is the existing one that doesn't have square footage on it but if in fact we were to do the up to Blue yeah we would have that room but then we would also have the open Spa the space coming into the building that we would be able to utilize for our senior day program is that correct correct yeah so we would essentially Stan be able to use the computer room for 641 Square ft the multi-purpose room we have down STS as well as using the smaller multi-purpose room that's in the basement which I'm sure is not 641 sare ft so would give us more yeah but you can't have a luncheon in three separate rooms on two of their different floors no I I I but I'm I'm trying to look more globally and but you can't do it uh I mean having more the lunch I agree with you I mean if the room on the first floor becomes bigger and we can put more people in there we will get more people I mean I was there for the uh Flag Day lunch and I'm telling you we had about I you know how many 40 people yes it was quite the you know I never thought that much a flag day until that day so I I understand what Stan is saying but I still would be very supportive of going to the 3 million because the 3 million plus let me correct myself and I do agree 100% as I'm currently having worked onto my own house and the price keeps going up thank you so at this point uh the the staff memo offered us four options um and I guess I'm going to ask the board that the select board uh with help from the COA board if there's any appetite here tonight to give any direction to staff in terms of retention of further work which I take it is necessary yeah Mr chair this this is a public Community Forum if if you want to receive public input uh sure um but I I I've been we have an A a um microphone up there I I just assume that this is not a shrinking violet crowd please thank you Mr chair my name's Terry Basset and I was home and saw this on TV I don't know if I missed this part or not uh I'm a younger senior uh I use the COA for all kinds of things um I'm wondering about the basement was that talked about while I was on my way here can somebody tell me what's going to be going on in the basement please so this plan shows the existing lower level um and there's there's a parking lot that comes down the left side of the building over here sort of the front door is right in the middle here but um the under sort of option one the basement would U have a new entrance from the lower parking lot and sort we take out some of the column circled in red here to make these spaces more useful and a couple days a week this space would be U used by the senior day program and the other days of the week um this room without a column this room without columns sort in this space could be used for any kind of cfal uh activities um there in the new so that's the existing plan in the proposed plan sort of these green areas would be those same areas that are renovated the budget considers adding two accessible restrooms and a small kitchenet so that lunch lunches can be served um in the senior day program perhaps in this wing of the building um and then other activities could happen in sort of this space um this is one thing that I would like to see I know you're not thinking about this is going to go here and this is going to go there but I'd like to see an art room so that we can have tables or something permanently set up for art and crafts and things like that I think seniors all want to do things like that we all want to paint and make baskets and weave and knit and sew and whatever and so I'd like to see a permanent art room somewhere whether it's down the basement that'd be great um and also the daycare uh it looks like you said it could be in the basement and there was another like a add-on on the side of the first floor um that was maybe for a daycare and if we don't do that maybe we could make it expandable so that that piece can be added on if we want to do that at a different town meeting to make it so that we have the option of adding on uh lastly uh we used to have a space for equipment like um Walkers or canes or whatever and they would be able to come in and somebody would be able to come in and and pick up a piece of equipment and when they're done with it bring it back and have this this right now I go to harch and Yarmouth to get equipment so it'd be nice if some part of this maybe in the basement again pardon we have equipment in our basement oh you do lower level I'm not supposed to call it a basement we have equipment in the low level we have walkers we have um canes we have we wheelchairs um we have shower chairs so really come in you have it now we do we have lots of it great okay thank you and that's all I have to say but thank you all for listening thank you um go ahead excuse me Phil Richardson I'm a summer resident I have a question um how does this three million get paid does this have to go before town meeting and I have a 2third vote go ahead sure Mr chair yes it would have to go before town meeting a 2third vote is only required if we have to do a prop two and a half debt exclusion so a borrowing authorization I don't we don't have the books closed yet so we always talk about access Levy capacity that means that if we taxed all the way up to the ceiling that would be within the levy I don't know if we have 3 million in in capacity at this point but it's only when we have to go outside of the levy uh to actually the borrow the funds that requires a 2third vote I was just curious if we could build a new building here which is what I think we should have done um the SR of which I'm a member we wrote a report in in 2018 that suggested rebuilding and building on the president site and I always thought that the reason the the votes were against um our prior efforts was because of the location I was hoping that if we could build a new building on this location we might get the two3 vote because rebuilding a building as this gentleman is doing a fantastic job of doing is very difficult and very expensive and and look at this this what we've built in this town last 15 20 years and now we're the poor seniors are getting again the short end of the stick in my opinion thank you um Miss lacrosse thank you Mr chair I I just want to say um as the Director of community services um Kurt's design uh you know I was so fortunate that he took a long time to meet with me and the staff um to look at how we use every single room and his designs captured everything we need so perfectly and in the I guess we're calling it The Blue option if that's what we're calling it you know we we listened when the town said that they didn't want to build a new building that they wanted us to make use of what we have and so with Kurt's help we came up with some options in order to do that the blue option uh captures absolutely everything that we need right now and there is plenty we feel that there's plenty of space for programs um since I've been I've only been here two years but in my time I don't think we've ever had more than 10 people on our wait list for a lunch um but we you know we very rarely turn people down if they walk in the door we we don't turn them down um that's a small secret that I just put out there but um we we don't turn anybody away so but I just ask you to really consider this option I I know we're already talking about things that we can cut but we we really um for our wonderful participants for the staff for everybody who is there every single day um this is really what we we need and and respectfully asked for thank you any other comments from the public uh yeah please I would just I'm not used to public speaking at all um can you just identify yourself if you oh sorry please my name is Debbie Hagen and um I would like to just say publicly that I have been very much involved at the senior center as a senior in the last year and I want to go on public record that the women and men who work there every single day need a building that is commensurate with what they are doing for the seniors in this town I attended the town meetings that were T that were turned down and I applaud you as a board for doing so and bringing it back when there was just one vote I think there's a big elephant in the room in chadam people who don't want to spend the money have no clue what's happening at the senior center and I think that while these plans are the best we can do and I applaud that Leah spoke that there has been so much time and energy put with the staff because I believe they are the ones that really should have some of this but I would like to ask both the board of directors of the Council on Aging as well as the select board that whatever plan you come up with please put some time and energy into educating the people in chadam who think we don't need this I think anyone who comes on a regular basis will understand that not only are we not adequate in some of the programs we are turning people away but we also don't forget this isn't the only building that seniors are using they are using other places and nobody ever talks about how many people are attending at the church how many people are going to the community center that the programs have gone to the community center because they came can't be um fit in properly so I would just like to say and I am willing to put my money where my mouth is that I'm in a position now that I wasn't in a year ago but the position that I'm in now is based very much on the staff and the facility inadequate as it is of the senior center so I would volunteer to be involved in any kind of an education program but I don't think whether we spend a million dollar or we spend $4 million there's a group of people in chadam who think we don't need this and we are never going to get anything past if we don't start addressing that piece of the puzzle so thank you thank you um yeah Ann please thank you Mr chair um I am solidly on team blue and I was hardened to see that the parking situation which was always given as an example of why this building couldn't be repurposed has now been solved very simply um the other thing is is that um I believe it was Terry had mentioned that um that we might be able to get some grant funding for the HVAC I don't remember what amount that was on which line item but in addition to that I'm just wondering if there are other grants available um you know I know the fire department has used the grant system very well and um you know I think that in order not to be relying completely on the taxpayers that if there was some other oh and also that Leah had found the uh grant for the um adult daycare so um I think that this is a very practical solution that is politically doable more so than anything else that we've explored and I also think it's something we have to do now thank you thank you any other comments well I'll reiterate the question I started to ask a couple of minutes ago um do we have any consensus here among ourselves as to what the next steps are Dean can I ask the town manager I wanted to just put two questions first in response to the question from Mr Richardson you could also depending on the amount of money available tap into free cash I mean it still has to go to town meeting but it would be a simple majority vote would it not yes free cash is always a simple majority it's just a matter of looking through our budget and financial policies where we fund up to 9% for our Capital program um but certainly you know once we receive direction we we'll do whatever we can to figure out how to best fund it the second question is if the board should direct you want to direct you to work with Mr rabber and Terry to come up with a design plan for let's say the blue option which people are more supportive than I initially was uh I've learned not to ask for too much um um do you have the money for to carry this forward what where would the funding come for so such a study such a design plan so we we do have um a Consulting and Engineering fund that we typically fund at $100,000 each year that's tell meeting approves that for feasibility studies and so forth I haven't spoken with Kurt about a him providing a to give us a strong concept um but also I need to check on the procurement process um as well so U so there's little more work to be done that certainly once we get direction we can work through that thank you uh Mr chairman I I mean I would would have been um agreeable to taking a vote tonight to endorse the blue plan um but I think we should probably hear back from the town manager on what it might cost and she might get the funding and um if we were to defer it to a future meeting near future meeting uh and we'll also have select board member um uh uh thank you Mr chair I think Terry had something to add to Y Terry if I could I just didn't expand and on um the town manager's comment a little bit so we still have uh so with with the direction and Kurt jump in if correct me if I'm um straying but we still if if there is some direction given on on the concept we would still be able to get a a better let let's call it a a a cost estimate based on these schematics with him developing an outline specification that we would have a a more refined number it would not be a design development construction number but we we still have some capacity left to do that or maybe a little bit um beyond that in the existing contract so we had talked about that and maybe that wasn't clear in the in the staff report but that would be the kind of The Next Step here to close out the the the feasibility study so that we would have a a a new let's call it a 1B number based on an outline spec and and specification and Kurt maybe you explain what that what that is we still have a little bit of room under our existing agreement to sort of um pull together sort of a final report and what I'm hearing tonight is that people are leaning to towards the blue we could create a set of plans by taking the yellow portion of the plan off um using sort of a um Baseline specification for new construction we could do a separate spreadsheet with just the square foot areas that are being renovated and then added onto or adjacent to the existing building without the yellow addition give that back to an estimator and get a little bit more refined number for the one a plus you know 1B um solution um and then come back with sort of a fine-tuned plan with a more uh indepth estimate um inside of our current agreement with the town so I I'm I'm G to try to set up a dialogue with you um uh Dean here and and by ask asking the my impression from this is that our next step in terms of of getting more definitive more refined more detailed more whatever it is that will get us the ability to move forward um with costing of what you've got in front of us now that's going to we're going to need to do that whether we pick option one a 1B or just the base I mean I suppose we you know the the base you got to do this to bring the building up to Snuff may be a separate Affair but that's embedded in 1 a and 1B um I I guess I'd like to invite the possibility that we that we pick the blue option subject to hearing what our uh funding availability is and subject to having a a a a report back from Terry and Mr rer um that that gives us exhausts his Consulting Arrangement and and gives us a CLE clear picture of what is the next step and maybe we can see a little clearer what that next step is going to be from that I don't know how you feel about that I'm fully I'm fully supportive of what you just outlined okay I think uh if you come back within your current contract and the blue looks financially feasible then we know where we're going if if it shows that the it's not three 3.8 or whatever it is it's going to be five million then I think you know we're going to put the stop sign up but in the meantime I I guess i' I'd like to include in that a direction to the town manager that she explore what our available sources of funding are for getting to the what I'll call working drawings for whatever we end up selecting yes I I would agree with that thank you I'm happy to put a motion on the pleas please so I I I move that I move that we instruct the town manager and and staff uh to work with Mr rabber within his existing contract to come back uh with more refined design concept and and estimates uh budget estimates for option 1B the blue program and that the town manager review um her funding options for any further work that I leave anything out no I I except I think blue is one a and one B corre okay yes we I'll modify my motion that to include that second second okay um I agree with you absolutely you know with all Duality um so um a vote a vote uh Mr dykens hi Mr Shell says I uh Mr necastro hi and Mr Mets hi says I and yes sir Stan I'm looking at the base cost only right now and it seems to me that a large percentage of that is really maintenance it's not something that we have to get a town meeting on because uh I mean for instance Jill what what's who's paying for the HVAC work so far so Terry do you want to talk about the funding appropriation and your work with CC yes we are working on aspects of that right now so we're basically leveraging green communities and and CLC money for that so who's paying for that so we are paying for some of that through uh maintenance but the bulk of it coming through through grant funding so we're leveraging up to I don't have the number right in front of me but I think it's up to how about the elevator the elevator again that is kind of outside the the modernization of elevator would be out that would be something that we would have a separate uh request for that we do not have any isn't that maintenance isn't fixing the elevator of Maintenance fix fixing it is but the modernization that we're talking about is not how about the foundation isn't that isn't that maintenance no but we had an appropriation didn't we for foundation work Terry a few right so we we have been doing some of those things but again we are the the the the cost and that that number we do not have that capacity we we get um $200,000 a year for all the buildings for for Capital upgrades so the town basically the town's paying for those three items the foundation the elevator and the uh again the elevated maintenance not the modernization not not the up not an upgrade we would typically be paying for um kind of regular routine repairs but not upgrades or major renovation so the elevator is maintained but we do not have an appropriation nor have we sought one until we had more clarity on where we were going for many of these items because we've been quite frankly holding off on them to not knowing what direction we were going okay my point but there's a possibility to I guess if you point is um could could the funding request be um um reduced reduced a little bit by putting portions of the requests into other other areas that that's probably a possibility to reduce the the if there's an article and again depending on the um how how the funding would play out but that's something we can look at as part of this final exercise as well okay so on base cost I don't see where we have to go to a town meeting for maintenance uh when we start improvements F it's fine but I think you can eliminate a lot of the base costs from a town meeting warrant because I mean the COA has asked for maintenance many times in the last 10 years or so without anything happening because everyone thinks well why should we have quote maintenance when we're going to get a new building but this is just basic stuff that town the town should do so why don't we why don't we look at what we can eliminate from the base cost I would suggest Mr chair that why don't we go through the exercise of what what gets us to Blue and if there's any other funding offsets that are already in Q or the grants that we think that are very likely some are probably out there that we haven't attempted yet I I think we can put together a financial plan for the board following your direction yeah and I I think not to be flipped but everybody wants to have what we need done well done right at the lowest possible cost and I'm interpreting what you're suggesting here is perhaps as the town manager suggests things that can be hived off into a a different place so that the numbers reduced um you and I that million that million could be I think could be reduced quite a bit we can speculate about whether we're going to get we can eliminate the whole million we're still looking at a large number here and and but we don't really know what that number is until we do the work that we've agreed we're going to do tonight so sub subsequently Jill could look at that and and say yeah I mean the HVAC system is maintenance but it's also a new system I mean do we have to go to the town to not for an hvx system by itself perhaps not we have nothing if it's only $300,000 only $300,000 but we we don't really even until we have a plan here we're not even sure we have that I'm just trying to figure out under maintenance what we can reduce from the base cost there got to be understood half a million bucks or the point is is the point is taken yeah okay thank you okay okay thank you gentlemen thank you very appreciate your for the direction very much and yes you need to adjourn I move the COA Board ajour second what yes yes yes yes yes thank you for coming so um you're welcome hope I know good night Stan well no you're not all right we are in session and we are going to move smartly to the next agenda item which is um a petition protective zoning bylaw that has been submitted um with appropriate I'm sorry I interrupt you again um the next item if there's public comment on the business agenda oh well let me I'll wait a minute for the public to leave and then we can ask for public comment um thank you um public comment on the business agenda which consists of the item I was introducing which is the petitioned article uh with respect to uh an amendment to the zoning bylaw and appointments uh to the uh airport commission the board of assessors and the that may be it uh the bikeways committee Board of Health the zba no yes zba and the semary commission any comments from the public so as I was saying um we have a petition article proposing to amend the um zoning bylaw and I think the gentleman who submitted it is here you can EXP explain it to me anyway I don't know about anybody else thank you welcome good afternoon for the record th Eldridge um I'm part of a group called impact chatam in 1985 the zoning bylaw was amended and a 50 foot buffer was created from the Conservancy District or the Wetland um flood plane Coastal Banks and the like in 2012 the zoning bylaw was amended to Define accessory structures shed pools otherwise and in 2024 somebody reinterpreted the 2012 bylaw to usurp the 1985 bylaw um working with uh the proponent of the 1985 byaw um along with my group we have come up with a revision to our zoning bylaw to correct this interpretation and uh it is an unintended consequence that nobody considered for 12 years while that that 2012 amendment was in place hopefully that sheds light go ahead so how are they at odds dad just somebody can put a pool right on top of a Coastal Bank right now under zoning 1985 we passed a bylaw saying no you cannot put a pool right on top of a Coastal Bank 50 ft away 50 ft away in the Adu bylaw no it was the accessory structure structure okay so it was when we um we started regulating shed pools sheds exterior mechanical devices that bylaw itself has a a Litany of problems with application because so many people have non-conforming structures and now they want to put an AC on they have a real hard time with it but the intention of that was never to place these structures within the conservan District setback so gotcha thank you I learned about it 6 and A2 weeks ago we had a bylaw and petition article submitted 2 and a half weeks ago and now we're before you we'll be before the planning board within 65 days de go ahead so thank you so we're not being asked whether we support this or not we're simply being asked to refer this to the planning board as is required by chapter 4A Section 5 so they can hold a public hearing yes please so so uh if if I may I mean I don't want to unduly um elongate this but I I just have two questions the first is am I correct in understanding that all we're doing all you would propose to do is to subject these other structures that are identified the sheds and the pools and and so forth to the same setback requirement with respect to a Conservancy District as other structures previously had been is that correct is that correct yes it is and the other question I have um is um it it it's it will refer it as required and then they'll have to do a public hearing etc etc in accordance with the law um did you give any consideration to making a proposal to us that or or to the planning board so that we I mean at some point I I assume you're going to want to have this be something that is placed in recommended by the select board is that fair yes it is and we'll have till next May okay so you're just getting the ball rolling we are okay any other comments motion I think they have to come back to us the planning board certainly has to come back to us after hear yeah Mr chairman I move that the proposed protective zoning bylaw amendments um be referred to the planning board for a public hearing yes second uh all those in favor Mr Mets I Mr Mr necastro Mr Shell says I and Mr Dyk hi thank you very much appreciate it okay next case is um committee appointments uh we have um two um seats open for reappointment uh there's also a vacant seat which uh is a separate issue uh Mr the chairman Mr Harrison whose term expires June 30 2024 and Mr cesy whose term expires June 30 2024 yeah Mr chairman I move to appoint Hunley Harrison as a member of the airport commission until June 30 2027 unless soona revoked or a successor is appointed second uh all those in favor Mr Dyk Mr Shell says I Mr Castro hi uh Mr Mets hi um we have a second Mr chairman I moved to appoint mler Corti as a member of the airport commission until June 30 2027 unless soona revoked or successor is appointed second uh Mr dikin hi Mr Shell says I Mr necastro hi and Mr Mets hi uh we have one seat open for reappointment to the board of assessors Mr chairman I mooved to appoint John Burke as a member of the board of assessors until June 30th 2027 unless sooner revoked or a successor is appointed second uh all those in favor Mr dykens hi Mr Shell says I Mr necastro hi and Mr matters hi okay we have um two members of the um bikeways committee who have expressed interest in being reappointed their terms expire June 30 2024 they are Mr John OU and Mr David yeets Mr chairman I move to appoint John oou as a member of the bike ways committee until June 30 2027 unless sooner revoked or successor is appointed second all those in favor Mr Dyk I uh Mr Shel says I Mr necastro I and Mr Mets I Mr chairman I move to appoint David Yates as a member of the bikeways committee until June 30 2027 L sooner revoked or a successor is appointed second all those in favor uh Mr dykens Mr Shel says I Mr nicastro hi and Mr Mets hi okay I just want to point out here with respect to the uh recitation about the interviews for the Board of Health it says Carol Gordon on June 25 2024 that's today that is a typo on my part I apologize that she will be interviewed on the 27th okay and that's fine I just wanted to identify that um so we have uh one uh member of the um Board of Health who was interviewed on June 11th and who is um up for reappointment is Mr chairman is and Kathy is this for an alternate position is that which she currently holds Carol Boyce as opposed to a regular member I don't know if there's an opening in the regular membership it's not my committee I think it's Jeff's it is I be honest with you I don't know Carol Boyce's currently the voice Vice chair okay well but she's a regular member yes okay she would be as Vice chair uh Mr chair I move to appoint Carol Boyce as a member of the Board of Health until June 30 2027 unless sooner revoked or successor is appointed second all those in favor Mr Mets hi uh Mr nicastro hi Mr Shell says I and Mr dikin hi um we have one seat open for reappointment on the cemetery commission uh Mr chair I moved to Point William bistram as a member of the cemetery commission until June 30th 2027 till sooner revoked our successor was appointed if I may I'll second that uh all those in favor Mr uh Mets I Mr nicastro Mr Shell says I and Mr dykin all uh we have two members um up for reappointment to the zoning board of appeals um they have both been uh interviewed and I will invite a motion Mr chairman I move to appoint David Beach as a member of the zoning board of appeals until June 30 2027 unless sooner voked their successor is appointed second uh all those in favor Mr Mets hi uh Mr necastro I uh Mr Shell says I uh Mr dykens I Mr chairman I move to appoint Paul simple as a member of the zoning board of appeals until June 30th 2027 L sooner roked her successor is appointed second all those in favor uh Mr nicastro hi Mr dykin hi uh Mr matters and Mr Mr Shell says I uh we have two open seats um for uh well we have three but we have two candidates for associate members of the zoning board of appeals Mr chairman I move to appoint Edward Acton as an associate member of the zoning board of appeals until June 30th 2025 unless soonok or successor is appointed that is second all those in favor uh Mr dykens I Mr Shell says I and uh Mr nastro hi Mr Mets hi and finally I move to appoint Lee hubby as an associate member of the zoning board of appeals until June 30th 20125 unless sooner revoked her successor is appointed second all uh all those in favor Mr Dyk I Mr Shell says I uh Mr necastro hi and Mr Mets hi a motion to adjourn well Mr chairman before you do that did you want to say anything about item 5B which is was the appointment of New Town Council oh we did I know did you just want to call the attention oh we can announce it yes we can announce that um at our meeting on Saturday at the conclusion of that meeting the board voted unanimously to appoint me talerman and Costa LLC as Town Council and we directed The Town Town manager to work out the um the engagement arrangements with them thank you Mr chair and J Talman and I are meeting tomorrow okay good um thank you for that uh sure move to a j second uh all those in favor Mr Castro hi Mr Mets hi Mr dykin hi and Mr shelle says I good night chadam it is 7:54 [Music] [Music] for