ready thank you recording in progress welcome to the chadam township committee meeting of May 21st 2024 we are returning from executive session so our clerk did confirm that adequate notice was given I would ask everybody to please rise for the flag salute IED Al to the flag of the United States of America and to theice normally I would begin with our mayor's message but I think our agenda is is fairly straightforward Ward so I think I will hold off on that and maybe uh put add something to my report I'm going to move into Township committee reports uh committee men Lois do you want to start us off sure thank you all right well swimming season is almost upon us I'm the colony pool liaison and Colony pool is uh ready to open we have a resolution on tonight for confirming the snack bar which is good vbis is back um our memberships are open swim lesson is Open tennis lessons are open and swim team open for signups so please take part in that if you can and I'm going to keep it brief and keep oh the only other thing I would just remind our committee here that energize NJ that that we still have the uh ability to have uh yolanta come and present to us what jcp's energize NJ Investments might be in our community because they will be asking for a rate rise and we could stick that in here somewhere all right thank you I like how you said that we could KCK that in here some some point we should just listen to what they have to offer us for this rate increase right uh Mr mchu uh yes uh starting with the environmental commission um where everybody's reminded that they'll have a a booth or table at Fisher whack which is going to be among us or upon us before we know it in early June um they had a uh great uh Native uh uh ordinance uh discuss within the meeting that we were discussing and they're very supportive and excited about that um look forward to additional followup uh as well on the uh the noise and landscaper discussion from the other day they'd like to certainly see follow up on that um and um Additionally the um sustain for sustainable Jersey the uh documents and everything has been submitted uh looks like we're probably Focus focusing toward a a bronze certification um this year let's hope that occurs uh the library uh the library had a great celebration last week 100 years uh so we're in triple digits uh down um at the library uh it was a terrific celebration a week last Friday um and uh we started off with certainly Mr Hollander Karen Brodsky Lyn mcgrain and mayor Dempsey saying a few few Choice words uh the wells sister giving some great history from the township perspective and our own Deputy Mayor with some Choice words as well thank you Mr Choy um U moving on from that uh the open space uh committee is going to meet this month on the 28th uh for those who wish to pay attention to that and we're looking forward to a couple things to discuss in that meeting thank [Music] you committee woman Roland um regarding the Historical Society um it is actually the 60th anniversary of the dedication of the first Thousand Acres of the Great Swamp refuge in 1964 which prevented this whole area from being an airport so there will be a lot of you know some activities around that and this building will have photographs um from the Great Swamp but from the past 60 years so we're working on pulling that together and then there will be a reception for that as well uh on June 8th fishack day the library is hosting uh Michael Snider who will be giving a presentation at 1:00 on slavery history in Mars County and then on Tuesday June 11th um at the library has invited um Thomas Lee he wrote this book it's a historical fiction called The chatam Patriot uh and it was really a wonderful story but it also highlights um lots of areas around town and how they were during the Revolutionary War um so he's going to be speaking on Tuesday June 11th uh at 6:00 um in terms of Public Safety uh we were notified that the paic avenue bridge connecting chadam to New Providence is going to be uh under construction beginning in July and it will take approximately six months so we're going to have to plan accordingly and I believe Central Avenue will just get a little bit busier so we know that's already a an interesting intersection at at Fairmount and River Road so uh we're going to be very very conscientious about uh traffic there and and putting up signage to prevent you know any issues and I think that is about it thank you Deputy Mayor good evening all uh with regard to All Things Recreation um I'd like to congratulate the chadam girls 8ighth grade lacrosse who went undefeated the season um so a fine accomplishment and there all those girls and the coaches and and tireless parents who drove our precious girls logged in countless miles going to Connecticut and down to Central Jersey so um they are the unsung heroes to be honest um I'm proud to report there's some uh good Earnest work forthcoming with regard to improvements to Shan Shan Pike parking lot so I think I'm hopeful optimistic and excited to have a uh uh a an asset there that will function a lot more smoothly uh we'll advocate for um citizens of residents and our invitees uh and just lower the stress level for parents dropping off and picking up uh June 11th from 12:00 to 5: is uh the fishack festival for the lacrosse community so please do uh put that on the calendars um it is a festive affair with uh coaches versus players games and respective grades boys and girls going at it hot dogs ice cream pizza will be served in a DJ will be rocking out uh the latest and greatest Tunes um Girl Scouts uh the gold and silver award ceremony will be held on Tuesday June 11th at 6:30 uh at the um uh wonderful Stanley Center in in chattan Bur uh we have about a dozen or so girls who uh have worked tirelessly and with quite a bit of passion to fulfill identify a project and fulfill the requirements that make them eligible for receiving a gold and silver award so uh very excited to see that tradition continue um a joint um Recreation advisory committee I'm happy to report uh is is functioning swimmingly uh we recently had a field allocation meeting so it's we're reinstituting practices that uh I guess prior to covid um were were happening uh and I think the communications are better benefiting develop of it um there are wonderful um uh lines of dialogue between Club heads amongst Club heads and also with uh with the staff from both the township and burough so I think ultimately the children all benefit who are participating in this program so uh thank you Carol um thank you Steve Z and all the club heads who attend these meetings uh Tom kaps Bill kptz uh also instrumental in making the meetings flow uh informative and productive um I think that's it mayor thank you um and I just wanted to add for the senior center that uh they have a pickle ball tournament that's coming up so if anybody's interested in signing up and joining that um it should be a lot of fun so I just go on to the senior center site uh they did have a successful paper shred um fundraiser so thank you to everybody who came out to support them there um I also did have an opportunity to attend not the library 100e celebration unfortunately but the library volunteer recognition uh there were many people there it was a A really lovely event and um they recognized U great mind things alike think alike they recognized Tom salvis for his volunteerism so um you know he's he's uh just been wonderful to many organizations in the the township and the burrow uh so we were pleased to see that he was recognized Again by the library um and and all the volunteers were also uh you know was an appreciation of events and we do appreciate I was amazed at how many people were there and they do a lot of work on behalf of our community so uh thank you to them for all their efforts um okay so we are going to move on to the hearing of citizens uh Mr lante can you read the guidance please for the hearing of citizens members of the public are now welcome to come up to the microphone to address the township committee this is an opportunity for any member of the public to be heard about issues which are not topics scheduled for public hearings tonight those present May step up to the microphone to be heard if you are watching via Zoom you may speak during any of the public comment sessions by following the zoom instructions to raise your hand whether in person or online when you recognized to speak please mind the following procedures please say your name spell your last name and give the name of your street you do not need to give your um Street number all public comments will be limited to 3 minutes rather than use any of your time answering questions the township committee will wait until you finish speaking before responding there are two public comment sessions on tonight's agenda each member of the public will be limited to one comment of up to three minutes during each public comment period written comments submitted to the Township Clerk before 3 p.m. today will be read during the public comment sessions written comments are subject to the same guidelines as oral comments duplicative written comments may be summarized rather than then read and full according to guidelines issued by the New Jersey Division of local government services thank you do we have any written comments yes we do uh from a Mr Mike Martin of Jeffrey Court um it's a proposal for construction of uh bot court on the Myersville campus uh need uh chadam Township is the only community in the surrounding area which does not have aachi Court Madison New Providence Berkeley Heights and Myersville all have such facilities with restrictions imposed on non-residents uh and he says Ben bernich uh who will be president at the meeting an eagle scout in conjunction with other Eagle Scouts uh with the uh chadam troop will assume responsibility for the program as an Eagle project uh for uh Senior Center interests uh Julie Reich executive director of the senior Center chadam strongly endorses the project many seniors have expressed strong interest in this activity uh for the baji court proposed Dimensions approximately 61 ft by 11 ft um and the email included a uh diagram um for the cost he says uh cost we have received one estimate on construction estimated cost of $14,500 which does not factor into account cost savings attributable to Eagle Scout participation in closing the township committee through the senior center of the cadams provides excellent service to the elderly of this m municipality we do hope the committee members will authorize a further evaluation of this needed project to ensure another senior activity this is a small investment for seniors compared to the amount of resources devoted to chadam Township youth um from Mr uh Mike Martin thank you so um obviously we have members of the present here to answer questions um and since uh since we did just get this we'll uh we'll allow um Mr Martin and Mr vernich and and the other Mr bernich if they would like to speak uh during the public hearing to talk about uh the Bachi uh ball suggestion um and uh effort for on behalf of the community which is wonderful so thank you for uh suggesting that and for your interest in pursuing that that's really wonderful um so we said they could come up they could speak but also if anybody has any questions Mike Martin I'm a member of the senior center obviously enjoy the activities and uh 40-year resident of chattam Township um there's a lot of interest in Bachi among the senior that attend the senior center uh activities um often times if it's they go to uh courts that are not in the township essentially to play this activity so we think that this is kind of a need uh I think the cost is very reasonable we think it can be constructed either in the playground or essentially uh at this uh cell tower site which I'm quite frankly not familiar with but apparently some uh uh uh work has been done in that capacity so either would be acceptable I'm not looking for Century a lot of amenities we just want a basic court so we're cognizant of uh you know the economics associate with this project and Ben will just speak uh in terms of his support for the Eagle Scouts Ben okay so uh my name is Ben bernich I'm sorry I'm from uh Johnson Drive I've lived in ch in chadam Township almost all my life um so uh a little bit about um like the whole Eagle Scout project deal is um Eagle Scouts have made a very large impact on the community um there have been countless projects done just for my troop alone we have only uh we have over 200 Eagle Scouts with over 200 Eagle projects um so just a a brief example is um one of my fellow Scouts AJ George he constructed he rebuilt a um a pantry for the um the food pantry at the chattam Methodist Church um and that's just an amazing thing that he could help just put his name on and um make better for the the community and um so uh this project for me is um you know I think it's very interesting uh because um I'm personally very interested in public health I would like to go to college for that and I think um that this B Court would be able to help promote the public health of the uh senior citizens but also other people can come use it as as well um and I think that would be a great first step in my uh in my future career and um also uh just for building the uh Court um that would be done mostly with uh Scout volunteers and um some contractors uh for like the the larger work but um the the rest would be done with Scout volunteers and uh driven by me as the uh the Boy Scout who is using this as um my Eagle project thank you thank you um did anybody have any questions while they're here I did um I just thought that it was a very nice suggestion and I appreciate you coming tonight um in terms of the a recreation amenity that is one we're missing and but it did strike me that it's very similar at least in its construction from from my point of view to our batting cages um and we have several batting cages uh at Nash and Shunpike and they've been recently rebuilt with the help of our DPW and I'm wondering if there's a Synergy there that because it seems to me that um and maybe Mike you maybe we could explore this as a on the recreation subcommittee but it seems to me that um they're essentially surrounded by 6x six or 4x4 wood it's kind of cinders as a base layer and I they did an excellent job um rehabbing our our batting cages and and I guess they're sort of pitching cages as well um and I'm wondering if there might be something there for your project and if you could take a look at those um you know at Shunpike and at Nash and and maybe consider that as you know as to what are all the options would be to work on your project so would you be open to that yes I'm certainly we cooperate I might point out the contractors that I contacted you have to find somebody who is familiar with the bach cor it's not a common construction project so the estimate is one estimate and the boy scouts or Eagle Scouts would contribute to this but yes we would be willing to look at the batting cage uh Contra whoever did that and talk to them about this because we're recen talking about a shuffle board that's essentially what we're talking about surrounded by uh a railro uh timber that's okay thank you um do you have an idea of and this would be Ben if he's he's prepared the documents do you have any idea of what the maintenance cost would be not sure okay but we talked about uh the maintenance for it there would be drainage pipe below it and essentially gravel would have to be put in periodically I don't think it's any different from batting cage where weeds are growing etc etc so I think that's a kind of given okay wonderful any other questions or comments thank you again so um what I would suggest is we put it on the agenda for Workshop so then we can discuss it and talk about uh where would be the um just so I understand your idea would be to multi-purpose the a bat and cage or or I was just saying that the the construction methods were similar and our DPW had done that sort of In-House internally and so we we have some skills now I don't want to speak for them but it it does seem to me that there's some Synergy there in terms of how that might be constructed or or done okay and and the estimate that you provided was a 1450 from one person I haven't qualified him so if the the committee deems it a per I mean I can talk to other people but it's you know at this stage of the game I just wanted to get a sense whether I was in you know Yankee Stadium or abbit field as far as ballparks yeah but that's the in terms of the estimate that's toally the uh outside it's not materials it's the outside it's the whole it's the whole thing actually instruction and okay okay okay mayor if I made just ask what what is the ask uh of the township is it for uh approval authorization for location is it funding is it what exactly is the well it's funding and location I mean the uh obviously this is a senior activity theoretically a mar build campus it would be good there's a batting cage that is suitable uh that would be fine or and the cost would be essentially born by the town but also essentially I have to talk to the senior center because I understand they essentially provide funds for these types of I've been in touch with Julia but she's been she essentially said well you gotta go to the township committee and see what the level of interest is again I don't think this is a big cost by comparison of project and the the funding ask is exactly how much that you're well it was 11 11,000 was the estimate but that doesn't include all the work these Fells are going to so I mean I you can't Factor it in if the committee wants me to kind of get more fine-tuned estimate for your next meeting I'd be very happy to oblig uh but you know at this stage of the game I can't get that that level of yeah I do think that we do need some specific number uh because everything you know we'd have to work out the mechanics but we do need a specific number of what that ask is well the ask was contractor without his help which I IND in the men was was roughly 14,000 okay that's without their help and he's indicating they have several Eagle Scouts that would contribute in in terms of construction I mean we're talking about you know a shuffle that's essentially talking and leveling process right some drainage pipe no I just wanted to make sure that we know exactly what the the dollar dollar figure is no does the committee want me to come back to them with a more fine-tune estimate or is that appropriate or uh I'm just debating how much work I want you to put into this uh yeah that I mean if that would be helpful if we more fine tune estimate I I for some reason I thought it said 1450 I don't remember seeing 14,000 or 11,000 but like I said I spayed Reddit while I was at work today so um I probably missed that all right so that would be prepared for the next Workshop is that what you're talking about I mean I think it would be very difficult though for Mr Martin to sort of incorporate the idea of like hey maybe our Department of Public Works has has a steamroller that they would you know be willing to to to flatten or something you know I'm not sure what but I I would almost think it would be better to explore it with a department head like that first uh to see what the capacity might be to help with this project just because that would it would seem to me that would defay the cost and it would be maybe majority um labor of the Boy Scouts there's a history too of the DPW and the Boy Scouts I believe that the Boy Scouts renovated heavily Nash Field's Clubhouse and or rather a bathroom facility and they put a the Boy Scouts did almost like a rebuild on the inside um so I know that there's a long history of the DPW working with the Boy Scouts and specifically on Eagle Scout projects thank you do you want to reach out to that's the internal okay okay I just want to make sure dep okay well thank you for your interest and cooperation I very much appreciate it thank you thank you uh Mr County do we have anybody on Zoom who's raised their hand uh there are no hands raised okay thank you uh seeing nobody else I will close the public hearing okay so the first resolution is resolution 202 4 -132 amending the capital budget do we have did we have oh you are GNA hold up uh 20245 since that's the only one we're doing tonight that number does match up um we don't have to do 132 so we can pull that for the next meeting okay so scratch what I just said we'll be pulling the agenda that's okay okay so we're moving to the ordinances uh ordinance 2024 -09 solicitor permit and Peddler license fees Mr lante do you mind giving a brief reminder of what this is yes this is based on a review of our solicitor permit and pedler license fees and it recommends or it this this would effectuate an increase in those fees uh from permit uh solicitor permits from $5 to $100 and Peddlers from $50 to let me double check with that went up to P let's pedler um $100 okay and if I recall these were uh hadn't been raised in some time and are well behind our all our neighboring towns solicitor permits I think go back to the 1960s and peders were the 1970s wow okay and um based on the review of other towns other towns were all in the $100 range thank you thank you do I have a motion to introduce the uh solicitor permit and pedler license fee ordinance so moved can I have a second I'll second sorry any you can't second your own Jen any discussion yeah if I may um what what was what's the historical activity with regard to fee issuances for both solicitor Peddler and otherwise in what regard how many we do in a year yes uh that information was in the memo that you received for the workshop meeting okay um and it would it be typical not so there would be no element of enforcement on here so in other words the ordinance would be passed and the enforcement Falls within the police department well for Peddlers you know typically we have about three Peddlers a year they apply to to me for a license um we have three you know ice cream vendors that get annual licenses licenses and this just raises their fee from the um it's $25 for a pedler then they get an additional retail food license which is 25 so this would uh increase the pedler aspect to $100 and then for solicitor permits those are done through the police department and you that varies year by year but there are years where we've had you know quite a few and um the police would be responsible for enforcing solicitors if they get a complaint that someone's going door too trying to sell stuff uh the police um even when people have their necessary permits police usually still get a call and have to go out to see what's going on and what council might the township profer to Residents who are who believe they're being interrupted by a solicitor for example who may or may not have a permit um if people aren't sure if the solicitor has a permit they can ask to see the permit and because the solicitors are supposed to provide It On Demand and then um if they're still concerned they can call the police and the police can come out to the neighborhood and um make sure that the solicitors are authorized to be there okay and now we we do also have that do not knock registry that solicitors given so if people don't want anyone coming to their door they should be signing up for that list and we do have quite a few registrants for that chy thank you Mr Lon can they email to sign up yes um the form is on our website um I usually get them by email okay yeah it's been a while since I heard about that I forgot about that any other questions any other discussion okay can we get a vote Please Mr Lois yes Mr McHugh yes Mrs Roland yes Deputy Mayor Troy yes and mayor eal yes motion passes public hearing on June 25th thank you and um I should probably note that you know this is you also in relation to canvers but our ordinance about solicitors and canvassers does have a list of organizations that are exempt so if you look at that um like religious organizations um elected officials doing campaigns uh there are like when it's Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts doing their cookie and popcorn sales we do have uh you know certain exemptions that wouldn't be paying this fee okay thank you okay 202 24-10 pool license fees um and similarly this is bringing this up to date because it's well behind hasn't been updated in a while yes this is also one of those fees that goes back to the 1970s and the fee helps offset Health Department inspections and since we've had a bit of inflation since the 70s it makes sense to periodically review our fees to make sure that we're you know charging an appropriate amount thank you uh do I have a motion to introduce uh 202 24-10 so moved and second I'll second thank you uh any discussion just a request that we you know uh I'm sure pool license this is not going to pass for this year for the licenses but just that they get a lot of notice you know that this is coming yeah that's it yeah because our current uh all our current licenses have all already submitted their renewals for this year so this will essentially take effect for next year's rals and I'll make sure that they get noticed because they they don't get their license until they've had all their inspections so when I send their licenses out I'll make sure that they're aware that next year the fees is going up a bit great thank you any other discussion okay can we get a vote Please Mr Lois yes Mr McHugh yes Mrs Roland yes Deputy Mayor Troy yes and mayor e yes motion passes public hearing on June 25th okay ordinance 2024-25 uh 30 a quick update it's just u repealing a section of our code uh that is outdated and um you know just not applicable anymore okay thank you that was less than the 30 seconds I was about to give you I appreciate and the next one same with the next one okay um great do I have a a motion to introduce 202 24-11 so moved can I get a second I'll second any discussion okay can we get a vote Please Mr Lewis yes Mr McHugh yes Mrs Roland yes Deputy Mayor Troy yes mayor Ewald yes motion passes public hearing on June 25th and 202 24-12 can we get a motion to introduce so moved a second thank you uh any discussion oh I'm sorry I'm racing ahead uh this is uh 20242 yeah this was the same thing okay uh any discussion okay can we get a vote Please Mr Lois yes Mr M yes Mrs Roland yes Deputy Mayor Troy yes and mayor eal yes motion passes 202 24-13 use of native vegetation can I a motion can I get a motion to in uced so moved can I get a second second um Mr shotti do you want to just give a brief 30 second uh summary of this one sure this this came at the request of our environmental commission and uh what it does is require the use of native vegetation that's vegetation uh that is native to New Jersey it's listed uh through an organization that identifies that stuff as well and it's only for the purpose of Municipal properties so it does not affect the private CI cens on their private property great thank you um any discussion we did the motion right I did the motion the second yeah any discussion wonderful can we get a vote Please Mr lowis yes Mr McHugh yes Mrs romand yes Deputy Mayor Troy yes and mayor e yes motion passes and public hearing on June 25th okay we pulled ordinance on we'll be addressing that in Workshop next time right okay but as this is an ordinance don't we need to table it you could just skip it on the agenda thank you ordinance 202 24-15 Capital ordinance that one we're moving forward with okay if you want Road can I get a motion to introduce 20245 so moved can I get a second please second okay do we have discussion uh wonderful can I get a vote Please Mr Lois yes Mr mq yes Mrs Roland yes Deputy Mayor Troy yes and mayor eal yes motion passes and public hearing on June the 25th okay we're up to the consent agenda does anybody want to pull anything out of the consent agenda agenda for discussion number 11 of resolution 20241 129 cost of living adjustment okay anything else number nine resolution 2024-25 okay and I think did we have to pull out one of the ex uh the minutes for when Mr Choy was not Deputy Mayor Choy was not there what would be the alternative he just votes and says he's abstaining on those particular understood yeah sometimes what we we what we've done in the past is the minutes indicate that you know the person who wasn't there votes in favor of the consent agenda with an exstension on those two resolutions cool nice and easy like it okay um okay so any other changes on or anybody anything else pulled out on the consent agenda great can I get a motion to approve the consent agenda with 2024 d127 and 2024 d129 removed so moved can I thank you um and uh vote Mr Lois yes uh Mr McHugh yes Mrs Roland yes Deputy Mayor Troy yes and mayor eal yes motion passes Okay so we've got resolution 20241 127 authorizing shared service agreement Health Department Services uh can I get a motion to uh approve that resolution so moved can I get a second I'll second okay discussion the general you know summary terms for the agreement would not be specified in here in terms of cost duration any any other pertinent agreement terms is essentially my question it doesn't have to be we can certainly amend it to includ those it does not have to be um in the resolution you have the draft agreement as well correct yes yeah so it doesn't have to be in the resolution it can be in the agreement itself and the draft agreement is was how I I don't know how I'm missing these additional documents cuz that's the that's what I don't have in order that I have the for example data on the okay fees was in your packet for the workshop meeting from over a month ago from two weeks ago so presumably you reviewed the documents you received for the workshop meeting I know you weren't at the meeting but but they are not attached on Friday's dismissive with the with all the documents has the committee already received and reviewed them for the prior meeting okay but and that draft agreement did specify dollar amount because that was an item we were waiting on Mr J can you give the highlights because I know it matched the uh Union you know not the union the prior agreement that we had in place if you can give the highlights and then I I would um it would be helpful when we have things that carry over if we can add I think for the public also it would be helpful I realize you know because otherwise you're searching for stuff so um if we could try and do that that would be helpful all right so the uh the terms of the agreement um I mean essentially everything else is is pretty much boiler play as far as what's being provided because it's spelled out by State Statute but the as far as the cost goes uh this initial six-year agreement six-month agreement because we're it's a first uh six-month agreement to carry us through the end of the year because our uh incumbent ends the end of June so from July 1st to the end is uh 57,5 se0 which is consistent with the agreement with Bloomfield um and that's payable in quarters uh the total cost for 2025 is $7,499 which is what uh in terms of with escalation what the other agreement also would have been for the following full year you said correct correct okay understood yep and so the term of it is just one year and six months um and you know we can agree to extend the uh the agreement if we want NE as long as it's before October of 2025 and um 3month Advanced written notification termination um if we want to part you know if we want to terminate um yeah but not within this first because we have to enter into a six-month agreement anyways so and in terms of the services provided it was mirroring mirroring the exactly then it's all of it spelled out in State Statute as far as what a Board of Health has to provide under is the local public health or local Boards of health and performance for local Boards of Health there's like administrative code and state statute on what they're supposed to do and provide okay thank you yep do we know for things like um so the nursing Services when they do blue shots and all that kind of stuff they use the Madison even know even though our we're served by Bloomfield so they would just bring people in from Union well we used to have a relationship with Madison um you know back when I started here Madison was our health department our health service provider eventually Madison um stopped providing the service directly they entered into contract with Bloomfield so we kind of had Bloomfield by way of our contract with Madison and then when our contract with Madison ended that's how we came to enter into an agreement with Bloomfield um at the time that Bloomfield gave notice to the township that they were no longer going to provide a service and they were terminating the contract early they noticed every other town that they work with including Madison um Madison managed to go with Westfield and they terminated their relationship with Bloomfield back in at the end of December so with in terms of health department our relationship with Madison is completely no more um if we have something like a uh flu clinic for the next five six weeks we would be still through Bloomfield whereas uh come July 1st it'll be provided adoption through the the new vendor okay any other discussion or questions okay um I'll just say just quickly that I I just feel like this is exposes the workshop format again is to something that's not exactly helpful and so I I think it does create confusion and create some back and forth that's kind of unnecessary could be avoided okay um okay we're ready for a vote Mr Lois yes Mr McHugh yes Mrs Roland yes Deputy Mayor Choy yes and mayor W yes motion passes okay 20241 1229 can I get a motion to approve so moved and can I get a second I'll second okay discussion I would ask to be to tread lightly because we can't reference names without providing a rice notice I don't know they names are public but I mean I'm not going to I have no intention to uh raise names mayor but that we're not prevented because this is a public document with names on it thank you um so it's listed in the agenda as cost of living adjustment um but then that doesn't match the resolution okay minor point but I just feel like this is a a way of of telling the public like Hey we're we're doing a cost of living adjustment but the truth is that there's adjustments in this that are 11% plus so it's not these are not colas I mean this is that's that's not the nature of this and I think it's a little bit misleading to the public to to list it as such I don't know why that was done or you know I I wonder if there's a way we can amend that or this was a mistake because this is this is just straight up um amending increasing employee salaries substantial amounts okay so just to summarize for the for the benefit of the public is we all received the uh information about the increases so for the benefit of the public the vast majority are the 3% but there were some uh folks that needed to be brought up to um competitive or or to their peer level rate so there were some increases otherwise is that correct characterization did you want to um that's correct and it happened in very limited circumstances um but if I may mayor Mr clerk the resolution was posted on the website correct uh no it was not okay um the title of the resolution uh you know there's only so much that fits on these Pages here in one line um not everything is as descriptive but the actual title of the resolution that you have before you States at the top of it resolution of the township Committee of the township of chadam in the county of Morris amending employee salaries for the year 2024 so it's pretty clear um right there on the resolution um but there's probably three or four uh employees who are at the lowest rung of pay that received increases Beyond just that 3% colon okay thank you there there was there was other uh pay that was not I don't know even by Lois rung but there was certainly of all the salaries listed it wasn't median salaries and they were getting boosted um at least but from the information that I have this information was was raised to me by a resident and a resident was concerned about the fact that the resolution wasn't posted on the website and then the fact that the resolution doesn't match the the title I'm not um casting aspersions but it it does seem as if could whether this is the case or not but it does seem as if there's an intention to mislead and I just wanted to make that clear because not it's not my intention to to mislead it's no one's intention to mislead yeah thank you okay noted um so we'll just uh for next time we'll just make that a little more clear um any other discussion yeah if I may mayor um the the salaries and and wages for uh our staff employees is is probably one of the largest items in the operating budget um I read the email which which accompanied this table um and I had no objections to the rationale for uh some of the numbers once I had some context for it my my question ultimately is what I can't get an appreciation for is if if the pay is within for a particular function if the pay is within industry standards um and having an understanding of how good of a job we are doing running the town with the staff that we have and let me be more specific so I I would I would be I'd be I'm thirsty for some rigor and discipline on having an appreciation that will G when we add our 30C employee in a particular function that would be within I don't I don't know you know General Municipal uh government standards I don't know if the DCA has this type of information or not um how effectively a town is running its government based on the number of employees the size of the budget size of a particular Department the services delivered um I do feel like I look at these numbers in a little bit of vacuum because I can't contextualize it um and I don't know if there are governmental studies I think this is why DCA exists is to be able to do these things provide some surveys and data so that municipal government officials can contextualize these numbers and have an idea on how the orc chart for municipal government should be built and grown over time um I don't object necessarily to a new hire but I again I don't have any contextualized information to say this absolutely makes sense um outside of the word of an advocate or Champion who's looking to hire that person and again I'm not suggesting I don't want to hire people I think um there's ever ever increasing demands for services and things in variable cost more so I appreciate all that um having said that it is I I continue to be challenged to have a full appreciation as I look at these numbers CU I'm not I I I don't know what a high- performing mid- performing low performing person particular function earns in the state of New Jersey or this County or perhaps the five or six uh you know adjacent municipalities around us uh something like that would be tremendously helpful to me I don't know if it exists you know again we can I don't know if uh we can ask questions to get that or well we used to receive that on this committee I I've been on this committee when we received that information ask information from Bing the DCA or or just banding you know banding of what these positions pay and you know what what and not just just not just salaries but again like you know hiring so um you know you know the next hire I don't know how to have an appreciation for whether or not that's a wise hire or not um other than you know the information I get from the person who's requesting the hire you know again I I look at or I find most organizations have that run well have an or chart and they understand they understand the headcount they understand where where the Leverage is in terms of uh intellectual Capital um and I don't you know as an elected official I feel important that I can say with some reasonable confidence okay we are managing the budget in terms specifically with regard to count because that's an incredibly expensive component of the budget and we'll sit in finance committees and belver over lots of different figures and you know a big one is is Staff um and I would like to be able to be confidently backing it with information that's contextualized here and I unfortunately I don't have that I don't know if it exists and this may be unicorn ask I'm not sure but I figured i' I don't know if anyone else shares my I I know what Mr Los is referring to Mr shahadi had provided us when there were higher level adjustments that had to be made I know you provided competitive salary data so there's definitely competitive salary data out there um I I we could I we could refer this to the administrative committee to talk about how you know an annual process when we're doing this to get competitive data whether or not it makes sense to have four people in the Construction office or whatever you have five six people in the Construction office versus I know I don't know how easy to compare like the police department you know there's a headcount that makes sense based on the number of people that you have in your community all those is you know we don't have malls in our community we don't have you know a lot of we don't have a highway running through so but but there are you know there are there is information and Mr shotti could tell us better than anybody else can but um there is information out there that we can use to get you know a little more comfortable with where we are whether it may you know makes sense we could look at headcount trend over time and by department and how many people have been in those departments over time and you see are we low or are we higher has it been consistent has there been spikes maybe that could help shed some light I knew that right I yeah we're definitely lower and that would be given that I think um having having more tools whether an or chart or you know a better understanding of well G we are 3 fds short in dysfunction relative to the other five towns who have a uh you know characteristically similar profile to us in terms of services delivered population so on so forth um that then is useful information say well you know high confidence decision to make this higher because we are absolutely underst staff um as opposed to just anecdotal information that we receive from you know a subcommittee meeting or uh you dialogue that's that's taking place you know uh here in in public settings just that being said though we have not asked for new hires at least since I've been here and the township for several years before that there haven't been any new hires it's just been replacing people that have left that may or may not be a problem right I don't know so that's I'm not suggesting we not hire I'm not suggesting we do hire I'm just saying it's hard to make decisions with that with with what I find to be quite limiting information that's that's my point I think the driver though is the budget every year right because that's it if if there's a willingness to increase taxes then you know then you look at you know that area right I mean there's staff has maintained that we've maintained the staff levels because there's not been a willingness or desire to increase taxes or change the the appropriation in that regard so we just make do with what we we have but um but Mr Troy just said that knows it could just all be in your head too you've got vast experience running uh you know both as as as an elected official and in uh in municipal government in your current capacity right so uh you know maybe that just needs to be codified somehow for me I don't and others perhaps on the committee I'm not sure um it just it evolves based on volume demands I mean you know and certainly we could discuss this further in Workshop or another time but just you know DCA doesn't do that right DCA will report I mean they do have information on different municipalities how many employees but they don't get so granular you know they'll say this many employees then they're not telling you what departments and where they are um there's a lot of home rule in New Jersey towns are left up to their own devices to figure that stuff out and uh the state doesn't have the the bandwidth nor our municipalities all reporting consistently so you don't have that what we do have is you know there's the New Jersey municipal Managers Association there are email groups among different administrators where we're saying okay you know just again not maybe two weeks ago I got an email asking hey you know how much do you pay for this position this position and this position and they do informal surveys and you know I've done that in the past and that's kind of where you judge and you look I mean it's geography it's population it's volume you know the type of the town is it a sleepy Community you know as I I was in Red Bank population uh you know not that far off from from chadam and when I was in Springfield again population not that far off but Springfield has Route 22 and a number of State highways chadam Township doesn't uh Red Bank had a hospital three theaters a thriving downtown a river community so even though the populations may look the same the uh you know or the geography might be similar then you have all these other things that can factor in and I think it's hard to have that kind of survey across the board for 565 municipalities so what tends to happen and you know North cost of living is different than South Jersey cost of living and I think those all factors well you know what how much does the county do you know Union County versus Morris County they do very different things for the municipalities in terms of some of the shared services things like Board of Bo Health departments what dpws and County Public Works departments do uh County Parks also affect things so I think it's going to be very hard to get to that level of uh analysis you just kind of have to look at okay who are our surrounding towns because those are really our competitors in terms of the workforce and looking at you know the the nature of that Community I think we've had some ad hoc conversations definitely about succession planning um when we were talking about a specific Department that you know there were some stressors there we finally got to the point that there were we were down two heads and we said okay if we add a head we might alleviate some of these issues so I think it we're having it on on an ad hoc basis but it's not kind of a formal ized you know across the board assessment you can imagine how much is is bottled up about this topic though that you know you can see from how much deliberation there is on this resolution um not really about this resolution that this is this is a topic that we can discuss we don't need a workshop to discuss it we're doing it now it's open um this this works um and this this the resolution that's before us the truth is that I don't feel that we've had enough deliberation on this topic particular I mean we we didn't look and examine this in from my point of view deliberately deliberatively and that's why we've erupted in so much conversation right now may I just want to add though that we are spending more time on this resolution than we have on a PBA contract or DPW contract and those collective bargaining units those budgets are far greater than this we're talking about a handful two handfuls of non-union employees that are getting a smaller raise than any other employee in the township is getting okay um okay but in terms of some of the recommendations that we've had maybe uh we'll think about that with the administrative committee uh you know something I know you've got a lot of things on your to-do list but uh something that in terms of you know where we can imp improve some information that's provided I mean certainly uh when we have this resolution to have you know maybe some competitive salary data just provided at that point yeah absolutely and and just to add I mean these are all within the range so we do have a salary ordinance uh that I think in 2022 when I came here did that wholesale review of what are the ranges at the time where should they be accounting for future increases and looked at what you know what other so what we're doing is just setting the salaries within that range right now um but yes certainly if we can find this improve on it whatever more information you want you know please let me know thank you allow me mayor if I can just make a closing point it is my position is not that I oppose any of this information as I suggested or as I clearly indicated the supporting email was helpful again contextualizing some of the um uh increases that were beyond the 3% again I had no objections to it and I'm not necessarily seeking individual specific salaries again I I I I entrust as an elect official the administration right to be uh shepherding the various functions and I I leave I I UST you that you're confidently and effectively doing that um it would I would be more interested in okay gee how much do we spend in a particular function or or Department um and how much how many people are there and what are they doing and what do we believe is the efficiency of it the effectiveness of it that type of thinking to me is more beneficial than well G how much are we paying you know Johnny and Sally that to me is of less interest so yeah okay as you said there's a salary or ordinance that maybe we could refer to to go back to just to if somebody wanted to inspect what we expect just go back to that and take a look I guess yeah but that salary ordinance was at the time we were told that that would be for a five years so just to say oh we're going to set it by resolution without much deliberation and say we're going to have a fiveyear range that's a that's a wide range there so you to have more pointed and a deliberative process over setting a resolution like this I think behooves us in terms of trusting this people and trusting staff I I think that's that's a good idea but at least in my party one of the stalwarts said would say trust but verify right that was from Ronald Reagan so I I would say that because of our position and the responsibility the public has in us we have to verify that's what I just said um insect what we expect that's just a different way of saying it okay thank you I think we are ready for a vote Mr Lewis no Mr McHugh yes Mrs Rand yes Deputy Mayor Troy yes mayor Wen yes motion passes okay and non-consent agenda we have resolution 20241 33 cancelling and resending ordinance 20247 can you give us a brief 30 second summary of uh that uh resolution 2024 yeah us a lot more money and actually almost double the cost of purchase thank you okay can I get a motion to approve resolution 2024 133 so moved can I get a second a second any discussion yes I I I think it's amazing that um a month after passing this or adopting it we would um or introducing it we would then be you know rejecting it so the the issue here is that if you take if you make a purchase of land in our Township which a lot of residents have they buy a home here um taking out debt on that Land Is Not a Bad Thing and the reason it's not bad is because land appreciates in shadam Township it's a vibrant good community and any basic financial management will tell you in appreciating asset is something you can take debt out on to purchase um taking debt out onto things that are that are depreciating is a bad idea um but to taking debt out on something that's appreciating is to your advantage you get a interest rate Arbitrage over time so from basic financial management it works specifically here what you're doing is um land which is our longest amortised uh I longest appreciation item the appreciation table but it's really longest amortised if we were to go to bond we' go to 40 years with this piece of land so it's it's a great thing to throw into a bond and because it's going to bring up your average the the duration of the bond um your ability to to lend over time to borrow over time so that's that's a a positive the the other thing about it is that when you make um a a purchase with debt and you have the cash on hand what you're saying is I have more productive things to do with this cash you're not saying that hey I'm G to save $800,000 40 years from now or I'm going to save the other the $400,000 40 years from now what you're saying is hey I have other things to do with this money and the other things we could do with the money that we're going to use are things like improve our fields we could um make improvements at EST that people have asked for we could make improvements at in many of our Open Spaces whether they be Trails whether it' be signage whether it be parking lots which are desperately needed we could do all of those things with cash on hand um and then you would be you it would be behov us and be possible to invest in things that do depreciate do that do break down but land does not and land appreciates over time so to make this purchase with debt is is not a bad idea the other thing is that what you're doing is you're taking money from current taxpayers and you're saying we're not going to spend that money to your benefit in the in the uh short term such as investing in better bathrooms at Nash field or parking spot we're not going to do that what we're going to do is we're going to pay off this uh piece of land which we're going to have for 40 years and you're going to be paying essentially now for future residents because many of us are not going to be here in 40 years um you know we'll meet our maker but before then unfortunately but so it doesn't make sense to me to make this purchase with cash now that doesn't mean you have to pay it off over the 40 years you can you can take your own you know schedule you could make some lumpsum payments uh maybe if there's a year when you you can't figure out something better to do with the money but right now we know that we have needs and we have needs at nashvi with the bathrooms we have Desperate needs at Nash with parking we have needs at um shike with parking we have the whole field at EST we've had multiple residents talked to us about that I don't see um how as managers of this money or people that are responsible for this how we can come up with a A you know a Net Present Value argument that says this is the best use um so I I am not for uh cancelling this or and or passing this resolution in order to cancel okay thank you um the finance committee did review this recommendation right yes and and is does the finance committee recommend cancelling the ordinance yes yes okay uh any other discussion okay let's go to vote thank you Mr Lois no Mr McHugh uh yes Mrs Roland yes deputy mayor Choy yes mayor eal yes motion passes thank you okay we're going to open the second hearing of citizens same rules apply do we have anybody on Zoom uh we do not currently have any hands raised thank you okay seeing No Hands raised I will close the hearing of citizens and I will entertain a motion to adjourn so moved do I have a second second all in favor hi hi hi thank you have a good night [Music] everyone recording stopped