##VIDEO ID:UhFakdxP_F4## yes okay Al we live on Zoom you we're good to go recording in progress welcome to the public session of the township ship of chadam Township committee meeting of August 13 2024 might we all raise and salute the flag I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America to the repblic for it stands one nation God indivisible liy and justice for all we welcome everyone tonight whether you be in the remote Airwaves from up to the North Country thank you mayor for patching in uh or the public that's listening in as well or anyone here uh in person uh we will go first into the hearing of citizens um Greg can you give us the rules members of the public are now welcome to come up to the microphone to address the township committee this is an opportunity for any member of the public to be heard about issues which are not topic scheduled for public hearings tonight those present May step up to the microphone to be heard if you're watching via Zoom you may speak during any of the public comment sessions by following the zoom instructions to raise your hand whether in person or online when you are recognized to speak please mind the following procedures please say your name spell your last name and give the name of your street you do not need to give your street number all public comments will be limited to 3 minutes rather than use any of your time answering questions the township committee will wait until you finish speaking before responding there are two public comment sessions on tonight's agenda each member of the public will be limited to one comment of up to three minutes during each public comment period written comments submitted to the Township Clerk before 3 p.m. today will be read during the public comment sessions which we did not have any but even if we had uh written comments are subject to the same guidelines as oral comments do implicative written comments may be summarized rather than read in full according to guidelines issued by the New Jersey Division of local government services okay since we if I heard you correctly we have no written comments to be read that's correct uh do we have anybody that wishes to come up to speak having seen none do we have anybody online uh we do not have any hands raised on Zoom being that that we have no comments at this time I will close the hearing of citizens and we will go into the workshop session uh first item on the agenda is the board of adjustment annual report Mr Tony vona is here if he might step up there we go thank you hello everybody thanks for having me in sorry it took so long for us to get here scheduling has been lovely last year 2023 2023 we had 18 uh cases uh for the board of adjustments uh 16 were residential uh one was a cell tower uh and all they wanted to do was add some new equipment to an existing Tower so it was uh very simple and we also uh did a uh believe it's a d variance for St Hubert's where they uh started a Veterinary Clinic open to the public so I'm glad we got that done uh most of the variances were were small things just um sidey yard setbacks front yard setbacks for small additions um there's nothing really contentious last year um we do have two new board members since Mr McHugh left us um and we we are uh in the process of getting one more uh I was was given a name I've actually been swamped so I have not reached out to the gentleman but I I will do that hopefully he's still interested um see we had a couple of couple of pools it's all last year was all very very minor stuff uh everything got approved uh one in R4 Zone on Woodland um made several changes that we recommended and only had to get one variance for a deck so he was happy to work with us and not uh build something too big for the neighborhood which is one of our uh sticking points for the R4 area uh building a house that's way too big for the neighborhood and uh it affects other other uh Property Owners uh values it it affects their um their views you know line of sight views uh and they're they're building these giant houses where they don't have any place for kids to play now uh so um as far as our recommendations that's one of our main things is we'd like to keep the R4 Zone uh through smaller homes um to keep the neighborhoods consistent and to have somewhat affordable housing uh left in in chatam where uh you're you're taking a $800,000 house and tur it into to a $1.8 million house and people can't afford that and now you got a giant house in a little neighborhood and uh it it it it doesn't fit um like I said last year the people who are in the the less expensive homes are more likely to be involved in the community more likely to be you know coaches for little league and and and den mothers and all that stuff um so I would really like if the council could sort of enforce some sort of uh limitations with either with uh floor ratios or uh larger setbacks to keep the house smaller just so we can have a a variety of homes in chadam so not every house is a 5,000 SQ foot house um I think the the work that we've done uh has really added to the the the look of chadam um by limiting some of the really outrageous requests um and being fair with with the people who are uh applying for variances and we try to have them redo calculations to make sure that um we can eliminate some of the variances uh because the Architects all know you don't ask you don't get so they uh come in with this grandiose plan plan and then we uh will talk with them and did you have any other plans well yeah we can lower this we can change that and by doing that we keep the variances to a minimum and uh everyone usually wind leaves happy we we try not to be um uh we try not to fight with the people we try to reason with them and uh you know most of them just want a little bit bigger room for their families or a poor layout or the house they bought uh or if a builder built something too big and there's no room for a pool that's uh several of our um uh applications deal with that just because you the pool needs to be two feet closer to the side so there's there's a nothing nothing outrageous last year this year we've had uh a couple of more challenging ones but again like on Susan Drive uh house on on a cliff uh the the Builder was very very reasonable he came back several times with different plans and we finally came up with something that we're both happy with that fits the neighborhood and uh we limited several of the variances by allowing him to move the house closer to the street uh to disturb less steep slopes um we're working on some signage issues like with Dunkin Donuts um so we're trying to keep the businesses in chattam Township vibrant and uh competitive uh because that whole Hickory Square shopping center has uh very poor signage it's if you're not like in the parking lot you can't see it so uh he was very happy with what we allowed him to do uh I believe it was MNT Bank same thing they wanted a different sign and they don't want anything outrageous um but it's just you know out of code so we have to do the variance so uh I think we've done a lot of good for those two shopping centers and uh that's pretty much it there there's no more cell tower stuff except for updating equipment so anytime they change something they have to get a a variance again uh I think we've come up with a very good um procedure for the the cell towers that are up if you look at our cell towers they're all consistent the wires are matching the poles the fences are all nice looking uh you go to uh like behind the police station that's it's a horrible eyesore because that wasn't under my my rule uh but I I I think for the most part the cell towers are uh you don't even notice them anymore uh and they're they're consistent so I I think we uh we all did a good job with with that thank you Mr Von a couple questions um if you don't mind um you you mentioned three recommendations essentially on your report one is about the massing that you describe as far as how do we retain um the feel of the smaller houses among the bigger houses among everything um and you mentioned the signage on on the improvements um and so kudos to all the work you guys do as volunteers and and the time you spend and you had something mentioning also the corer Lots which is a uh a space concern but I did have a question and that is um these are the recommendations from the board um and are these recommendations consistent with the recommendations that had been made in Prior years um and um is this a repeat set of recommendations or is this all new this is multiple repeat okay thank you does uh the committee have any questions from anybody for Mr vona no I just want to thank you for your service uh you get you've done an amazing job and you've been at it for a really long time so I just wanted to say thank you um I really appreciate everything and I and um I do appreciate that you make it not contentious and it's more educational and trying to bring uh you know meet residents needs but in a way that complies with the standards and the and the requirements um on the I'm trying to remember because I know I I know you've brought it up and the floor area ratio was one that I know we brought back to sorry my house is very busy here right now but the floor area ratio is one uh that that we definitely had discussions on I can't remember Mr shotty do you recall where we left off on that was it was there no interest in pursuing I I thought maybe we were going to get recommendations from John rushki on um what that might look like and how that what the impact would be uh this going back a while yeah I'm going to check my notes we we do have John here John do you remember uh where it left off that discussion about floor area floor to area ratio and all I know there was uh I thought you had prepared a memo and that was transmitted to I think it was Frank oh Frank did okay yeah but it was discussed you know was discussed years ago frankly uh and uh don't recall you know where it didn't really get much momentum you know at the planning board uh but it could come from the township committee also it doesn't have absolutely board yep absolutely I mean I'm open to having a discussion at one of the workshop meetings to to you know think about what that might look like and what the implication would be what they're building fits the requirements so what we're trying to do is change the requirements uh just so it's not possible to build such a huge house on a small lot I mean our four Lots only 10,000 square feet and they they've got a 5,000 foot house on it because it fits within the setbacks um one more thing I'd like to mention is the houses that are not parallel to the Main Street um again they fit in the envelope and they didn't trigger any uh uh questions or or variances from the from the building inspectors but uh what we have done with the two houses on Fairmont uh we required extensive landscaping and and uh screening and those two homes now uh you really can't even see so by following our recommendations uh they have their home faing the direction they want and it's not uh as obvious to the the passers by so that's one way we we work with the the people and we always try to we always tell them that that you know we want to make you happy and your neighbors happy so a lot of times some neighbors will come in uh and not agree with the variances that are requested because they think that'll hurt their home and their value um but we we have been able to work through 99% of them only one that I can recall where the one neighbor wouldn't let his other Neighbor come on his property for a sight visit they they never they never made up but uh other other than that everyone will voice their concern about the size of of a project and by the time we're done with it with um with with screening Landscaping all types of other issues uh we try to make everybody leave at least satisfied but hopefully happy all right well I I've received many over the five years I've been on his Township committee and not one is regarding the zoning board so that's uh that's a very high praise to the work that you're doing so I appreciate it all righty anyone else with comments Mark yeah I just wanted to just reiterate the mayor's comments that thank you for your service and the board of adjustment really is a lot of work it's a lot of work to be on the board of adjustment and it's a lot of technical uh information to digest and a lot of zoning to look into and even people people that are um have some background in construction or building often stretch to be on the board and it's it's a it's a big commitment and sometimes it's hard to get people to be on the board right you'll have a vacancy for a while but you've been on the board now for as long as I can remember since Kevin tubs was mayor yeah so you're talking 2010 when is it 2014 okay there you go so that's a long time I've been chairman for at least six yeah so that's excellent thank you I appreciate you thank you so Mr Shah I guess you can work out with the mayor on agenda items for discussion and uh I reiterate uh thank you very much Mr viona and your board you do Yen's work and thank you for coming in and and clarifying uh what you've done and where you've been and where you see us going appreciate it very good thank you guys good night all right the next Workshop uh agenda is on the engineering portion which will be a discussion by Mr rushki our engineer regarding the sewage treatment plant review of capacity um and we've all received a report that uh is extensive yes uh and uh acting chair if I may the uh the the memo had been provided uh a couple months ago but we had full agendas and so this was uh pushed off for a time when we could have a thoughtful discussion on it uh but the point of this also is to inform our Capital spending for the WPC which uh was not included uh in our our previous Capital discussions because it it is a standalone kind of topic and there's a lot to discuss not just in capacity as of an existing uh facility but also uh planning for the future so um based off of the discussion today one thing you can expect is in the coming months uh a capital ordinance to address these these issues uh that Mr rushki uh will bring to your attention certainly that's uh uh compelling in the report is that the Mayes are something that uh would likely not be small so I give the floor to Mr rushki if you will please John I can't hear you is your mic on it is not mayor I had to turn it on you're welcome um so the plant is located at the end of Tanglewood Lane in a remote portion of the township now the the we have a an approved sewer service area and a An approved future sewer Ser area you know the existing sewer service area generally um picks up all the homes and and properties that are along the Southern Boulevard Corridor the shunai corridor the Myersville the major developed portions of of the town is is um is uh served by the um the sewer treatment plant um years ago we we actually the there was a separate independent plant that was operating at the chadam Glenn facility and and that we made a decision years ago either spend millions of dollars to upgrade that plant or we actually convert it to a pump station and now that is now discharged into um into Tanglewood so now we no longer operate two plants we now just operate one plant um the plant was constructed initially in the 1960s so some of the equipment is 60 years old um there was a major um renovation that occurred in the 90s so some of the infrastructure is is 30 years old so it's still um you know the the plant is actually at a point where um there is some major infrastructure uh Rehabilitation that's necessary just to keep up the equipment before um the equipment uh fails we do try to um keep up with um the maintenance of the plant and and try to avoid that that Tipping Point where some something turns into an emergency and we pay for a lot more so we do but we also try to get as much of that asset the value of that asset that we have so we push the limit to make sure that we're not replacing it too pre prematurely also um so right now the plant is uh permitted to a treat um 1 million gallons a day um that's average flow um we actually upgraded the capacity when we combined the two plants um um we actually combine we have a permitted discharge of 1.1 55 million gallons a day um that we can discharge to the praic river now that we do not have the treatment capacity or or I should say we don't have the permitted capacity to treat up to that 1.55 we only have a permit to to to treat up to 1 MGD so um in order to uh in in order to upgrade the plant to allow to treat more flow we would have to apply for a treatment works approval permit from the D demonstrate that all the components in the plant and can accommodate that L higher flow rate in order to uh get that that permit now as um and and that like I said that happened several years ago where we we updated that so we have taken into consideration as we do improvements on the plant we do install the equipment that would accommodate that higher flow for example we replaced um the UV disinfection equipment and when we replaced that we replaced that so that it had a capacity of of one the 1. one55 and and uh when we're replacing pumps or whatever the so we do take that in consideration as we're doing replacement parts or or upgrades at the at the plant we we take into consideration that someday we may want to apply for that tww permit to get increased the capacity of flow so you know my report goes into um like all the various components within the um of the plant itself um I also handed out an aerial that I thought if if there was any particular question I actually identify all the various components um that that are located in the plant and and unless the committee wants me to go painstaking through every single component I won't do that um I'll just kind of Hit the highlights um you know the one component um that um in order to if we wanted today to move forward with that increased treatment capacity to permit that to increase more flow um the the one component that is uh deficient is the sand filters and that's the only component that right now that um wouldn't accommodate that increase in flow we would have to add a new another module to that to to accommodate that so that that's the main component that um we would have to change in order to get the um capacity done now as I said the the the plant was actually constructed in the 60s and there are still components that have not been upgraded since that time so that there there we've we've gotten every all the useful life out of some of this equipment and it is time to to look at replacement and there there's three components that um that need to be looked at the first is the influent pump station which is basically um all the flow runs to the plant by gravity and then basically this Pump Station pumps the water to the to the beginning of the plant and then it actually runs through gravity through the uh through the through the uh the plant so you need that increase in capacity just to to bump that up and and that that piece of equipment has not been replaced um right now if if you were to inspect it it it's a uh frankly a tin can in the ground um and it's it's um difficult to work in it's a confined space um in order to lower yourself into the where the pumps are located you have to sip on this this this um um dated uh elevator for a single person to go down into it so it is something that um we do need to start to look at you know it is made of this steel construction so I know it does have cathartic protection on it um but it's um there's only a matter of time before that steel starts to deteriorate we start to have major issues and and and problems with the pump station um we have recently uh replaced a commuter there and in order to replace that it was very difficult to to work with the existing steel that's inside that so it was a challenge just to replace that piece of equipment so so that is something that um uh we need to look at uh that that is probably the most expensive um um component that really needs to be looked at at this point in time it's it's been a to say been kicked down the can has been kicked down the road many times to look at this and and uh you know it is something that if we were going to install something um you know discussing it with the operator um he would like to have something that that provide safe access in order to work on the pumps remove remove um the solids that come in because there are a bar screen that's located um in the in the uh in that pump station that structure which they need to remove periodically so um they are looking at looking at a capacity and the feat and the and the type of structure that um we were looking at is actually there's something similar in in moris Township that has a new headworks that they constructed and and it just allows uh safer access you know they we would install a mechanical bar screen there so they remove more of right now a lot of the um solids are going through the common uter which is basically a grinder and it grinds up um rags and such but it doesn't grind it up to a point where it still is problematic with in in the pumps itself and things so it does you know any of these solids do push itself into the into the plant and and and adds other maintenance items so we wanted to you know more more modern plant would have a bar screen that would remove those solids and take care of that um if if we were to construct that that new facility it would be um almost three stories below ground because that's how deep it is and so it's a very expensive structure you know just off the cuff looking at the size of the structure and things we didn't do a detailed cost estimate but you are starting to approach a four or five million structure to go in there it's a very expensive ium to to move forward with with that structure you know we we can certainly look at Alternatives that that are not going to be as efficient or and not as um you know that that allows more uh less less less more restrictive access to the pumps and things and so um you know certainly if that's something we can consider but you know we've been approaching this it's let's do the right thing and let's do install a structure that that the workers can safely work on all the equipment and and just uh you know uh combinated um typically in a headwork structure you also incorporate um some um silt and and and sediment removal also that that gets implant because that again work at the tears on wear and tear on the pumps and and the plant as it goes through the plants um we don't have a heavy amount of sediment that gets into um the plant so you speaking with the operator I think we would if we were designed this to go forward we'll probably retrofit it so it would accommodate the installation of of sediment removal equipment but we may not install it and just uh you know maybe just have the accommodation to install it in the future but um really don't have a heavy grit Mount that that's into the plant um the other component that's that's that's 1960 vintage is the um I say I'm 1960 vintage so um the um uh is is the primary clarifier the primary clarifier is is a it's a clarifier which takes out um a lot of the the heavy solid and sludge that comes initially comes into the plant um it is something that's um very effective and and it and it it it complement the oxidation ditch as well to not overload them and make them more efficient um we could make an argument that we may you know technically we don't need um a primary clar fir fire and that we can overload the oxidation ditches with the solids and and that just that would then require more maintenance associated with those oxidation ditches and so um at this point I I don't feel strongly of saying saying that we we shouldn't move forward with replacing the the the um primary clarifier because we we know regulations are changing with the D and and nitrates are just on the amount of on the horizon of of imposing limits on us and and we are looking at the oxidation ditches as as a means of of of uh accommodating those changes future regulations and then if we take the primary clarifier it's going to make that very hard to make that work within the clarifier so you know I think it's from an operational standpoint it does it's and makes all the other equipment work more efficiently by putting the primary clarifier in so at this point we are recommending that the primary clarifier get that rehabilitated um um to do um that work and and the third part the third comp third component is um the um there's an aration um chamber that that aerates the uh the effluent before it's discharged to the river and um that that again that's that's older an older piece of equipment we are seeing a lot of deterioration that's that's not a heavy cost compared to the other two items but it is something that's on the horizon that we need to look at and if we're going to have a a larger contract to go forward with with either one of those um you know to incorporate that it would just be you efficient to do it at at that time um the rest of the components um they they um they are starting to age also it's and but uh I think we do look at I think the the the final clarifiers are are starting to stor will show wear and tear I think we may be uh at a point where we would do a a rehabilitation not a complete replacement in in the future but you know that's on the horizon also just to do some some Rehabilitation work um we did do some Rehabilitation work on the primary clarifier about 15 so years ago we changed the motor we did did some mechanical work but um that that that work is even at that time we were looking at the the the replacement was was in the future um so that's kind of talking about the the infrastructure I also in my memo identify that um regarding the um where we are with capacity standpoint um you know we did look at I didn't do a full buildout analysis I I just looked at um the approved Wastewater management plan that we have on file with the D which actually has a buildout analysis uh included in it um certainly it is dated it could be updated again but I did update the numbers to accommodate the fact that we have um Arbor Green the the the affordable housing complex the um uh Dixie Dale so we we've um we looked at the projects that are that are are are have been developed and and incorporated into those flows so those are I updated it to a degree for what activities that are going on right now so we we uh we are uh we are getting close to our capacity for the 1 MGD um that that you know we are po you approaching that um the the the buildout that we anticipated it was approximately um 220 homes was what the buildout uh was it didn't account for affordable housing projections or anything like that it just looked at those remaining areas that um it looked at the areas that um have not been sewered such as River Road and adding those homes um looked at um you know potential larger properties that may be subdivided and so you know it looks at those those uh you know just just devel max build that Max build out of the development based on the current zoning again not in take Taking consideration of affordable housing so um if if in fact we um don't upgrade the the plant to 1 MGD we're going to be pushing the limit to uh at that point so you know the 1 MGD would accommodate the full buildout I I think if we had some um if we applied for a tww I think the D May flag us and require us to do some additional II inflow and and and infiltration and inflow reductions just to TR and bring those flows down because we still have that in the system um but that's that's where we are um with the current um permited capacity so uh we're not at uh you know we don't need to upgrade that capacity now or in the immediate future you know taking into consideration the current buildout um but certainly other considerations could go into that um so that's uh summary Well you certainly uh have presented many many opportunities for question um I I did uh notice one two things you you have a off the cuff you know back of napkin on the influent pump station right four or five million bucks um uh there was a how much is a uh not holding you to it uh uh primary clarifier going to cost us it's probably about 500,000 so that's another half a million all right and then the airation Basin is the cheap one yeah that's that's probably 75 or even me less it's it's really just doing re some rehabilitation work on the concrete okay so so as far as planning goes uh those are very rough those are are at the immediate Forefront of of something that's you know has the potential of of failing um that we need to start seriously looking at before we have something failed well those are those are serious words that is looking at failing um and and aged and um you know useful life we we're there um and perhaps even Beyond in some agree and if something fails one of those major items um what is the potential and the risk to the to the township well C certainly the um I said if if the uh primary clarifier failed um the pl it wouldn't be a tra a catastrophic failure we we would work uh we would have to modify the the this plant to accommodate that you know other components would be stressed because of that but it wouldn't be a catastrophic failure we would take take it offline and we can do that um now the the um the pump station is is is more sensitive where it U it could be something that um could be very costly if we start to have a m if if if we start to see some structural um Integrity issues with the uh the the steel structure itself that could end up being very expensive to do a temporary repair just to do that um you know we also have concerns regarding when they when they work on the pumps it's it's in a confined space um you're working in a very tight area it's also you know we have to take in consideration the safety aspects also of that it is something that you know um you know God forbid something happens with you know an accident associated with working on that and and many times um the or we have to call in a a vendor to come in to repair it because it is something that's it's so restrictive um that um you know the the DPW the sewer department just don't feel comfortable at some sometimes because it is it's such a m major component that you know if that's taking Offline that that you have to do bypass pumping in order to do that and and and the bypass pumping isn't cheap and you don't want to do that for a long period of time is would the bypassing uh bypass pumping be something that would be brought in on a temporary level with some equipment correct yeah we would we would rent that out and and uh and handle that and and we had we have done that in the past when we've um had to work on the Commuter or had to work on the pumps and it is inexpensive we don't want to go on bypass for a long period of time yeah and that would be the same as far as planning uh for replacement on the pump station you know you got to operate while you're fixing yeah that that's part of the construction and that's and and that's that's again it's it's an off the off the cuff estimate but that but that that is typical for that this type of you know construction and and that you'd have to consider bypassing it is and it is a costly expensive you have to run a pumps the whole time so that they can work on the uh you know actually demolish and then reconstruct the new facility they have to do the bypass pumping and that's part of the the cost what's the actual location of that pump station so if you if you look at the aerial it's located at the lower center it's a small yes y got it got it so it it would take up and and actually when we permitted the effluent Pump Station which is the new pump station that actually pumps pumps the affluent all the way to pic River um when we obtained the njd permits uh for that project we actually uh carved out an area for the U the development of um the the influent pump station so we actually contemplated uh you know that area so we plan for it if if you could just kind of high Lev look what's our greatest risk at this time I think the greatest risk is is really the um with with i i The influent Pump Station the headworks project that that you would the risk is that you may have to go on bypass pumping for an extended period of time and that's a cost um that that would not necessarily um impact the treatability of the plant um you know that doesn't that doesn't affect um that we we um accommodate that so it's really it's a cost it's a cost and and a safety component that associated with it so it's it's really the those two things um the Iration we we could um you know that's something that if if we start to see greater deterioration um I don't think that this would be a catastrophic failure also with the the aeration base aeration tanks I think that's something that is just a just needs maintenance and I don't see that being a catastrophic failure over the uh immediate future but that's something that th those those are also the 1960 vintage tanks and so they need work okay well I certainly open up that all kinds of questions that'll that'll come I am I am sure but I'll open up to the yeah these components these you know C certainly um if a primary clarifier or an oxidation ditch was taken offline or failed and we had to do that for an extended period of time that would that would affect the the tree ability of the effin we may have you know issue D issues of violations and discharges and things of that sort but these two components um are less prone to that failure that that risk um anyone on the committee mayor any quick questions for John while we have him here I'm sure there's many uh yeah so I wanted to the the total cost because I guess I remember that like 10 million being floated around at some point this seems a lot less so I mean it's still pretty big number I think I think we were also putting those numbers together regarding the the future secondary clarifiers being replaced so it it included other components um but not the um the primary Focus would be the primary clarifier and the in in the headworks The influent Pump Station um but it it it C certainly the plant um does need other maintenance coming into the near future so I think that's that's you know if we were looking at maybe a five-year projection we would probably want to look at the final clarifiers within the next five years so you know I think the $10 million is just more of a projection of what you're going to be seeing in the near future versus the immediate if we just go for the headworks at this time so if I hear a five works is a long ter five years of long term and the immediacy is is much closer yeah I think within a within a a fiveyear period we're going to start starting a little getting a little stressed over those clarifiers and and pushing the limit on those so those those are going to you know they're starting to show work they certainly need work already with some some minor improvements um just on some of the Weir and things are starting to to need the replacement that that's general maintenance they not high cost items but you know when we start talking about the um the the mechanical arms and and the motor and and the platforms it's it's starting to get that's when you start getting very expensive other questions so I guess in order to start the permitting process we need to upgrade sand filters or add sand filters first you said that was a concern that we might not be permitted because of those correct if if we if we wanted to increase the treatment capacity of the plant we would have to um plan on upgrading the sand filters and and and but that's that's sand filters that's not a a a need for like a maintenance or keeping keeping up with it that's something that that would be uh something that we expand the plant and so it's the sand filters are relatively new not new well they're they're they're also in the 90s but they they're op we've been maintaining them we don't have any issues with them now that that would be an expansion of an existing treatment facility and how long is the permitting process is it months year um anything you're dealing with the D it's not quick but actually the treat the treatment works approval permit is is something that you typically you can process within 90 days you know but it's it's um but you have to put all the it's it's not going to be something that um you need a couple months to to go through uh you know similar expanding on the report that I did and and uh it'll be another Engineers report for the sand filters so it's it's you know we have to design the sand filters so it's a little bit more work work involved to actually get the the permit application together but um but that's something that um you know I just just conservatively say we can knock that out in a year by time you you know get the uh design done the permitting done and go to bid construction might be another couple months but it's it's you're in that time frame it you say go y anything more um I I recall that there was discussion that um I guess the prior inii study um was expected to reduce you know usage of the system about 10% 10 to 20% so we think that that savings occurred and was offset by the the new development that was brought on board or that's that's coming on board yeah I don't or have we not have we not realized that saving I don't recall the actual statistics of of you know 10% or 20% being represented by the inii project the the inii does you don't necessarily um get you know because you're getting infiltration during rainfall events is you're not eliminating that flow on a on on a continuous basis so it doesn't equate uh as efficient as as looking at your average you know annual um flows that you'd get um the so we did we actually there is still some work to do we did the inii study we um I don't believe that um all the work has been corrected yet I think that was something that U the sewer department did have uh we've been been trying to do that um in a in a more economical Way by by doing it incrementally versus all at once and so um you know certainly we can take a more aggressive what's left on the um uh what's left that we identified um one of the one things that we have you know we we've done inii studies in the past and one of the major hurdles that we've had was when because there's it's you know certainly we we it's it's easy for us to make um modifications or repairs to the Ms you know the the the mains are in the right away we have manholes in the right away we can easily make those repairs but the the source of the II is not just in our system in the RightWay it's also all the the private laterals that extend from the RightWay to the homes and uh we have identified um that those problems in the past and and it gets very difficult um to implement those improvements with the with the residents um we've had a lot of um opposition and uh um people of objecting and making an issue of of us identifying we you know clearly we have a video we can show a video of of water flowing clearly flowing through someone's lateral and and um it's difficult to enforce that yeah and actually it wasn't the inii study that uh said that it was a report I don't remember whose report it was but it was kind of speaking to capacity and the constraints and I think it said something like you know an II study could reduce the usage by about so yeah yeah because and what we did um we didn't do a a study through what we did initially was we installed meters throughout town and we and we you know we certainly we've identified inii in in various sections of town but we just went right to the area where there was the highest percentage and we started to look at that one area we can start to expand that and look at other areas but we went to the hotspot per se and just kind of started to look at you know get the low-lying fruit you would say to just kind of get clean up those areas that were were seeing and so we did identify that but but certainly the there's more work that could be done with the ini to to reduce that you know so certainly we we see some um significant peaks in and flow during significant rainfall events thank you I mean I certainly don't want to mess with uh wastewater treatment equipment that is way past its useful life but um yeah I just want to have a sense of of where we were relative to and what other options we had relative to meeting capacity anything else Mark yeah so other communities have you know relied a lot on on the ibank for funding these types so um you know that would be for the residents information that would be forgivable loans or partially forgivable loans or extremely reduced interest rate loans related to projects like this this is our utility so it's paid for um and its finances are captured separately from tax revenue it's it's a self-liquidating utility um so so this there is separate financing available for that at times and it's a usually a state program so can you talk about that at all or sure no that's we' we've took advantage of the ibank on on um several projects in town the most recent is when we did abandon the chattam Glen plant convert that to a pump station and build the effin Pump Station too it's it's a program that uh administered through the New Jersey Department Environmental Protection they have a separate um division just for this and it's they reference it as the I bank and and basically it's a uh a loan program and and actually we're going through that program is very advantageous because certainly they actually push permits very quickly through that program so that's one of the programs that that one of the reasons some people go through this program is because permits seem to go faster when you're going through through the loans because they're trying to close on the loan and go through the process now the the process is is that um half of the loan is based on um market value for um triaa you you get very low rates for the uh for the um when they go out to sell the other half of the loan is 0% from the EPA so you're blending 0% 50% 0% 50% with low interest and it gets a very low interest So you you're not going to find a better program to um to finance infrastructure uh projects within the than the ibank it's just very very advantageous and there are um occasions that they do have principle forgiveness um but but they they run certain programs right now I would have to check and make sure that there's nothing on Wastewater but right now I know for sure that um there's uh leadline replacement is something that's very heavy there going principal forgiveness um posos treatment um is available um combined sewer overflows where you have a sewer system that that's both it collects both the sanitary waste and the storm water and to separate that there's loans associated with that um occasionally there's loans for um uh flood control projects occasionally there's for Wastewater so um at at this point time it it it a lot of times a principle of forgiveness is tied to regulations that the D is mandating on the infastructure to kind of alleviate that so so right now a lot of the principle of forgiveness is is focusing on uh the drinking water side of it but but I can certainly check and see I I I checked it probably a couple months ago I didn't see anything recently but I can check it again to make sure but um C certainly it's I wouldn't say it's something that we would want to wait and see if a grant comes up um because um because just standard infrastructure like this where you're you're not um enhancing the treatment or you're not you're you're just basically replacing a component that that needs to be upgraded um so they they tend to to tend the the grant funding tends to go towards um enhancement U versus replacement if we were to upgrade the oxidation ditches or we upgrade the Iration tanks it would seem to me that th those would potentially clean up yes the the the one thing that that it's it's a lwi interest program but it also comes with a lot of bureaucracy that you have to go through and things because that 0% from the EPA you have to comply with Federal Regulations so sometimes you get pushed into doing uh Environmental Studies and Architectural study archa I'm sorry archaeological study and and it just gets things that depending on the type of the project sometimes you get pulled into doing more soft costs more planning costs um but but it it's certainly the lower interest justifies going for that cost so so rule of thumb you know you wouldn't want to go to the ibank in my opinion for something less than a half a million you'd want to do something substantial enough where the the interest the the benefits that you're getting from the interest you know offway the additional effort that's associated with the loan good comments um Z yes I am sure you are very much supportive in regular communication with uh Mr rushki here about all that's setting us up to be able to participate F should uh the ibank become a an opportunity for us are there are there any com comments you have yes so um with this information you may recall at one point um John was requested of uh our WPC manager to put together uh preliminary design and estimates and the list was pretty much about everything and I went back I said John all right let's let's focus on the primary items that are more immediate nature that really require attention because estimates will change year to year and we don't want to just have them sitting on the shelf and also just deal with the the things that really we need to deal with front burner so that's uh where this report comes in as well as uh Comm in your tour uh as as liais on to DPW and WPC so the The Next Step would be uh for John to and and John I believe uh you would agree is is for us to and we've authorized funds under 2023 for John to do prelimary AR uh design and estimates for these three things uh then next year in 2025 is when uh we would start looking at ibank financing to actually put together the definitive plans the full specs for the headworks the you know all the items here as well as even a couple years out so that way we're lumping everything in um for this ibank application um we don't have to you know Finance it immediately but we would go out somewhere between 5 to10 million is is what we're looking at for this ibank financing um but that alone uh has a huge price tag associated with it just from a soft cost perspective that uh John's firm would need to undertake so just in terms of steps uh John right I'm thinking September October is if there's agreement we would engage John's firm to go ahead and do the preliminary design and cost estimates for these three things is that correct John correct correct um and then uh we'd be dealing with 2024 for Capital which uh none of the items in 2020 for Capital um you know those are some smaller repairs things like repairing uh pumps and motors uh vertical turbine pump a generator for Southside CTIC tank all this stuff would be in a in a report that I provide to you we're looking at uh all of that being able to be funded through our Capital uh what we have already sitting in capital and uh Reserve fund balance at the WPC so that would cover 2024 items and we've got to get us through to 2025 for the next phase which is this larger ticket items uh we would borrow in 2025 excellent thank you uh mayor any other additional comments that you have or can you hear me uh no I'm good I guess the one question I have does does anybody have any objections proceeding forward anybody have any objections to moving forward on that basis mark [Music] I think you were duly assigned sir thank you so we we'll have that on for September y okay thank you John thank you appreciate that very uh comprehensive and lots to do are we uh is that it for the workshop session yes it is unless discuss no okay so we're going to move into the uh regular meeting section and we're going to start off with uh the mayor's message remote from the North Country thank you sry I just want to pull up my notes because they just disappeared um I wanted to thank everyone who called into our um July 23rd special meeting to provide feedback on the colony pool construction plans uh I'd also like to thank the colony advisory committee members MERS and the township committee members who spent a lot of time getting input on the renovation uh our work as a committee is always made better by input from the community and we appreciate everyone's patience as we work through this process the pool renovation was intended to address the crumbling sidewalls which are well past their useful life we had a tight timeline in order to Begin work in the fall many Colony pool members were not pleased with the initial draft uh design so we held a special meeting on July 23rd in the hopes we could come to a consensus while meeting requirements the committee was not ready to take a vote at that meeting and requested more time for Community input given the delay and the interest of the committee to get more input it is not feasible to begin Construction in the fall there are too many variables that could throw off the timely completion of the work and we would not want to risk the pool opening in the spring uh the best course of action is the plan for the construction work in the fall of 2025 that gives us time to get more input from the community on what they'd like to see done our Township administrator will coordinate a process to collect input from the community and then based on that feedback new design options will be presented for Community input again I thank the residents for their input while the committee is elected by the community to make decisions on behalf of residents our outcomes are always better when our residents are engaged in the process residents can reach a committee via email or we're happy to schedule a call call or a meeting if you'd like to discuss any of uh The Colony matters further or anything else for that matter I will also resume zo the mayor's Wellness committee walk with the Mayors comes September we're looking at September 21st for our next walk uh promoting Health and Wellness in our community is so important exercise and connecting with nature can be a positive factor in maintaining health and wellness the mayor's walks are a wonderful way to get exercise while exploring our beautiful trails and talk talking about events in the township I look forward to connecting with residents whether on the mayor's walk or otherwise your input and questions are always welcome I'm also pleased to announce this evening that we will establish by resolution or community events committee we have a talented group of community volunteers uh who are committed to building a friendly and welcoming community Through the coordination of special occasion events they will work with our Municipal staff and Community groups to plan coordinate promote and Implement events I want to thank them for their service and I look forward to getting together with residents in their first event in the fall thank you thank you mayor uh we'll go on uh moving to the Township committee reports and Mr Lois we'll start with you sure so Colony pools swim team won their last meet and we're able to jump off the dock into the pool that was a big celebration that's uh what highlight for the kids swim team s had their end of season party if anyone's interested in joining the pool or joining the Swim Team all are welcome and that's uh definitely a lot of fun I know my children participate in it along with about 40 other friends um and uh we had four Swimmers at the meet of Champions and um they placed very well so was it was a very successful season um for many the The Colony pool advisory committee was uh tasked with discussing alternatives for the log roll and we have uh identified three and bandied about about those and um includes a replacement log roll which we've identified um and and some other options lily pads and um one other item and so uh we'll be presenting that when when it's when we made sort of more clear decisions because there are there are um for these lily pads there are design options and there's different there's there's different uh Alternatives and and you know specifics that could be made so we're g to we're we'll present on that uh Recreation was supposed to meet uh based on our pool meeting uh was supposed to meet um but it has not so I'm looking forward to Mr Choy to coordinating that meeting and um that is all that I have thank you sir I will uh take the charge because we in the usual progression I'll start with the environmental commission I'll point out um these are pretty short reports uh but there is a project of which uh participation will be available and that is on the restoration of the slope up at the uh up at the Shunpike Fields great project uh money's there plans are there uh so get aboard and check the site and uh look toh contribute because that's that's a good one to participate in uh Outdoors beautiful fall it'll start come September with that works um the library no major report other than again a thank you for the diligence and hard efforts of the staff down at the library to keep us comfortable to uh during a incredibly hot summer um and all the actions they need to take there um and on to Mrs Roland thank you um unfortunately we had to cancel National Night Out because of the torrential rain and the storm that came through um but I did clean out my adopted drain Dresden following the storm to make sure that it was clear and up and down the street so if anyone to support the township and the initiative about adopting a drain it's going to only contribute to our sewer treatment and water treatment um you adopt a drain and then you make sure that it's clear pre poost storms and I'm going to tell you there's a lot of stuff that collects of the drains but um uh mayor Ewald and I last Friday had um the privilege of celebrating uh Jee White's 106 birthday that Stacy issued um mayor Ewald issued a proclamation for her um it was a great party over at Juniper Village and it just really she has contributed so much not only to our community but also throughout her life and in her service during World War II so that was really it was a pleasure to celebrate with her uh and we also um are moving forward Ben bernich um is doing his Eagle Scout project um he they opened up a GoFundMe and it blew up and everybody donated the community really ra rallied around it and he will be building uh B Courts at the senior center so we're excited about that that's it excellent anything Madame mayor can you hear me no but that that's yes thank you that no I have no additional um things to add but thank you to committee woman Roland to remind me about uh Gan White's 106th birthday because she definitely was an impressive um is an impressive person and it was a pleasure to be there so I I appreciate that reminder and I'm thrilled to hear the Bachi courts are moving forward that's that's wonderful news as well Mr M I can't hear you is your mic on all right we will move into the introduction of ordinances um Mr shahadi would you like to start with a quick summary sure uh so the uh first ordinance uh relates to uh our permissive or rather dates uh days that construction is not permitted and that's on Sundays and holidays uh because of change in legislation uh both at the state and federal level adding juneth as a holiday uh we are including it in our schedule as well so that way uh um it's clear and police can enforce that and then um the the next ordinance uh concerns uh rules and regulations is we don't have a concise or comprehensive set of rules and regulations for our parks and Fields um that governs all of them uh we've only had on our books one for the skate park and one for Colony uh and there's been a lot of issues that have Arisen and questions that have Arisen so this follows um what a lot of towns around us I looked at about half a dozen communities uh took bits and pieces from all of them as they apply make sure that it doesn't uh affect adversely affect our Recreation uh activities as well um we discussed this at Workshop there's been no additional feedback received uh since then and provided that to our Township attorney who drafted the ordinance and that's what you've got today okay do I have a motion for introduction of so move my motion and I will second that any discussion might I have a vote Mr Lois yes Mr McHugh we have a raised hand in the audience um where this is not a public hearing so this is Introduction this is the introduction of the ordinance public hearing is not till the end of the meeting um and the public hearing on these items will be at the end of September when we actually have the public hearing scheduled this is Introduction this is Introduction y so uh Mr I would I would move that we suspend the rules and allow our resid so moving on with the vote Mr McHugh it's Mr Lois first we're in the middle of a vote um discussion is closed did you vote Mr Lois Mr yes voted um Mrs Roland yes and Mary wal yes motion passes and public hearing will be on September 24th okay we're going to the uh uh consent agenda these are I'm sorry the Parks and Recreation okay do I have a motion for ordinance 20 24-18 parks and motion so move Mo second any discussion yes um I have a couple questions on this one um it's under park hours there's a a call out that says uh it sort of excludes it says not applicable to to lighted fields for the use of Township sanction sports or recreational activities makes a lot of sense to me um but we don't have similar language to that on activities that I think Township sanctions Sports and recreational activities would be doing or have done in the past so for instance um under under the second section so under 20- 3.2 so it's it reads to me to say no person shall and then it it lists a whole bunch of s prohibited things and I'm wondering if if these are is are these things excluded from townships sanctions sports and recreation activities um and what I'm going with this specifically is this one to solicit sell or offer any sale any Goods without a permit issued by the township of chadam are are are our sports teams still allowed to you know use the the Fieldhouse to sell something to support their teams or to raise funds um given that language given the language for 20- 3.2 yes I apologize need toor yes that's correct yeah the 2033 exceptions I think covers those um when it's when requested in advance and writing the township administrator and is that ceptions to all of the ones above can be granted can be granted yep but it's not assumed to be granted I'm just wondering if we're putting a a burden on the on the uh you know because it's it is considered it's it is a regular thing I mean the Fieldhouse was always used to sell from you know that's that's what at Nash field I mean it just seems to me like we're adding a step maybe that we could avoid I don't okay and then the only other one I have is under prohibited use is no person shall and it's item C it's a little confusing to me it says take any animal into any parks or playgrounds except on a leash okay so your dog's on a leash go to park or playground not longer than six feet or to permit any pet to go into the active public play areas apparatus area athletic field or recreational enclosure or building unless said pet is participating in a Township program so that reads to me like can can you can you take your dog to a playground and sit in the apparatus area like you know at Shunpike can you sit on a on a bench with your dog on a leash um because that's what it's it seems like it it might be prohibiting that or construed that it could be prohibiting that I I I don't want and so it's saying you cannot take a pet into a area that's what right but it's saying you can take them to a park but you can't take them to a playground area right so so within where you know often times playgrounds are you know g offened off within a park that area okay but our Parks they're not and so we so we're saying I mean we're passing an ordinance that says you can't sit on on the bench at Shan bike field and watch your kids with your dog that's seems to me a when I read it it seemed like because I was looking at that as well I thought it said something like act active play areas so I I saw it as you know which made sense where the the kids would actually be you know climbing on the equipment and playing on the equipment I can't I can't open it out but I just remember because I looked at that as well and that was that was the part that gave me I can read it for you take any animal into any parks ORS except on a leash not longer than or permit any pet to go into any active public play area apparatus area field or recreational enclosure or building unless said pet is participating in a Township program so I guess your there sorry about that so in your example if the bench is not in an active um public play area then it would be permitted as long as they were on a leash six feet or shorter and once you leave your own property or animal can Control Ordinance requires that the dog be on a leash anyway this is you the only real impact this has is the length of the leash that it can't be one of those leashes where the dog can be 20 fet away MH and I guess is there any area that addresses service animals is that covered somewhere I mean it certainly would be you know trumped by by federal law and requirements we don't address it specifically here um but again there's the exceptions that kind of allows for any exception to the above Provisions but those are all in writing the in advance in writing you're saying because the exceptions have to be in advance in writing yeah I mean because our our public our play areas I mean the you know you go to shike field the play area is um bordered and all wood shipped and there's benches and and um picnic tables and you know areas for families to congregate and they are directly up against the apparatus and the the you know the public play area I mean literally you're running by these these Benes soow ourin doesn't allow well I understand but what what I'm saying is ites it certainly does restrict it's not more restricted in fact it's providing more flexibility currently exists how is it providing more flexibility because currently dogs are not allowed even in your situation of somebody sitting on a bench dog's not allowed so this now allows the try to explain so we could sit on the bench with their dog with a leash outside the playground where currently allow um I I I don't know if that's accurate but I do know that uh I doesn't sound accurate but what what I do know is that this is a little bit ambiguous and if we do want people to sit on a little bench in and watch their children play with while holding their dogs leash I don't just see why we can't just simply you know amend item C here not longer than 6 feet or permit any pet to go into any active public play area which to me sounds like a field which is I think that's probably appropriate um but apparatus area I think if we just simply removed apparatus area because I can't think of any apparatus area we have other than children's playgrounds we don't have a uh jungle gym or a workout facility or anything like that that uh you know so if we just simply removed apparatus area I think that would satisfy my concern uh if we remove apparatus area that would mean that yeah that that people would be allowed to have pets within a playground by the swings by the slide so it's up to you whether or not you want to allow permit that I don't my son before we got a dog my my son was terrified of dogs and I wouldn't want him to bring him to the park and just because someone wanted to bring their dog take your dog somewhere else I would just say I wouldn't want him to not be able to enjoy the playground because he was scared that's you know just a personal right the ACT you know active player you know we've got turf fields we've got you know you don't want animals being able to run on fields where people would play baseball or football or that that's not what that's for you know people have dog run they have Open Fields for that but that's not a play area you don't want them there also I'm just thinking allowed my own pets that you know what if they went to the bathroom I don't know if I'd want dogs going to the bathroom I just going to say that perspective you don't want from the of Heth in a dog's rest facilities right right right this seems pretty standard practice I think what we're suggesting here and currently under Section chapter 5- 2.2 it says you know we have something no owner of a dog shall take it upon or permit or suffer it to enter upon any Recreation Area park or other property uh of the township and and goes on but that currently not allowed to have dogs anywhere on our stuff so this is actually creating a little bit more flexibility okay Mark and you live with uh you're you're really looking at a narrow circumstance a little bit well it's kind of Border I think we discussed it it's uh you know right others are comfortable all right can we move forward sure have a thanks for my answering my questions can I have a vote Mr Lois yes Mr McHugh yes Mrs Roland yes and mayy ewal yes motion passes public hearing will be on September 24th okay we're going to move into the approval of the consent agenda are there any items uh that anyone wishes for pulling out for discussion mayor Mark I'm good thank you might I have a motion so moved and I'll second that any further discussion might I have a vote Mr Lois yes Mr McHugh yes Mrs rowand yes and mayor ewal yes motion passes thank you and now someone in the audience or two uh we have the uh second hearing of citizens uh just a real quick recap uh on the rules Mr Clerk and since we actually have a bit more of an audience now uh just quick go this uh members of the public are welcome to come to the microphone to address the committee uh this is an opportunity for the public to address issues that are not scheduled for public hearings tonight uh those present May step up to the microphone to be heard and if you're watching Zoom you may speak during this session by following the zoom instructions to raise your hand whether you're in person or online when you are recognized to speak uh please mind the following procedures say your name spell your last name and give the name of your street all public comments will be limited to 3 minutes rather than use your time answering questions the committee will wait until you're finished speaking before responding uh there this is the second of two public comment sessions on the agenda uh each member of the public will be limited to one comment of up to three minutes during um each public comment period and we still don't have any written comments delivered to me prior to 3 p.m. okay anyone in the public wish to speak please come up may I sit there uh do you have you can grab the mic oh I can't use that has a red light oh okay no problem my name is Karen Blumenfeld that's spelled Blu m n f l d and I reside on Maple Street in the township and um I'm very happy to hear um any talk about the colony pool um given that um my family are originally Colony members going back 100 years so I'm so um grateful to the township committee and to the mayor mayor I'm looking at you on the screen uh for always thinking about the colony and keeping that um alive so I want to thank you so much um and perhaps I can talk about being part of the colony pool advisory committee or coming to a meeting since I kind of know about that pool I've got less than three minutes so I want to get to it um the first is I want to talk to you about um ordinance 20247 so the original ordinance in place has its intent uh to ensure that residents are able to quietly enjoy their property um free from any kind of construction or contract noise on Sundays and on holidays however the original ordinance in place does not address construction or contract activity taking place indoors which is of concern given that indoor construction or contract work can create noise levels of similar disturbance um that occur outside um which is what this particular ordinance seeks to protect against on numerous Sundays uh this past spring this issue occurred at a neighboring property of mine and that included running a portable outdoor generator that was very loud um which appeared to be at an equivalent noise level not within the intent of this original ordinance um which is to eliminate noise created by construction or contract projects on Sunday or holidays so I respectfully request that uh the mayor and the committee consider amending the proposed ordinances section two to incorporate no indoor activity if there is an outdoor generator running or equivalent noise creating equipment or if noise created from the indoor work is disruptive to the neighbor at one instance I did call it in but the police said it's indoors so their hands are tied which I can understand but that didn't alleviate the concern um so thank you for your consideration on that um secondly um my profession is in public health and specifically 30 years of expertise in Tobacco Control I respectfully request a consideration for a technical amendment to proposed ordinance 20248 section 20-3 .2 refers to eliss of activities prohibited in these areas of the parks and wrecks areas and subsection L refers to smoking however there's no definition of smoking included and that definition should be consistent with your local ordinance 3-11 entitled smoking regulations which uses the same definition of smoking that's in the New Jersey smokefree Air Act um it's important to use the same definition of smoking in the proposed ordinance to avoid confusion by the public and helps with enforcement a particular note is that the proposed ordinance does not refer to vaping okay no problem so I have for you paperwork um this is your proposed ordinance and I circled where smoking is related this is this is the ordinance that you have on the books 311 with the and then this is the state law that you can refer to thank you miss m I appreciate it thank you good evening my name is Stewart car c a RR from three Crestwood Drive in chadam Township New Jersey uh three items number one is um uh Oprah number two Oak null and number three is um what was my number three uh oh yeah Green Village uh Trail uh before that though uh also want to consider this idea of reasonable length of time young lady is in the middle of the sentence first of all Mr Lois got cut off saying he wanted to get her up here before then we're at 3 minutes and we have a clerk here cutting off a citizen okay I understand three minutes is you know important but if somebody's saying something substantive let's let them finish and have the reasonable length of time latitude here at the dis so we can again respect the citizens who take the time to come out here and say something important so if we could please consider that that would be appreciated all right anyway um what's my first first thing uh what did I say Oprah Oprah yes um wanted to check going forward since we lost that case or at least some of us lost that case some of us like the uh result um what are we going to be doing getting an attorney who knows what he or she is doing to find out what can be done in terms of information that's in the chadam township domain at this point to get that online okay number one what is the universe of information it's publicly available that's public information by definition that we have to ask to get and we have to be very specific now how can we get that online what the cost of that would be what the timeline would be to do that and then can we have some kind of a Lexus Nexus or Google capability or whatever to do a basic word search thought search capability some engine like that to be able to get it information that way poor Mr lante here won't have to again address as many of these o requests and all the frivolities and all the concerns that were raised about uh Oprah being problematic can hopefully be somewhat alleviated so Mr shahadi or we can direct Mr shahadi or somebody to get on that to find out what that work plan would be what that cost would be what the timeline would be would be appreciated okay that's number one number two oakn uh chewing at Mr um uh Mr shahadi a little bit Mr um Lois a little bit and Mr um uh Choy just a little bit from a couple weeks ago discussion about the oakn field and using it I think Mr Choy said and again I may have um misspoke or misheard he was basically saying that the oak folks are effectively doing a service by letting us do that number one number two Mr shahadi was speaking about the idea that well we're getting charged only a few bucks because oakn has an insurance cost they have to pay now again Mr shahadi wasn't here a lot of you folks weren't here when the original thing was done with respect to Oak null but that was a deal we cut with Oak null there wasn't anything about costs even if it's only a few bucks um that again we were supposed to access to those fields and if they say they have to have security people that's their problem not our problem okay so we shouldn't be spending 50 bucks or 100 bucks and where I have issue with Mr loow as he was saying hey can we get money out of the rec fund to pay for this if we want to take people and send them to PCAT away to practice or something and we want to pay for that that'll be fine okay no problem but to give money to Oak no is absurd okay and then number three um I will come back uh with respect to that I apologize Mr lanti for going over 3 minutes minutes I will endeavor not to do that going forward but hopefully on the Das we will be able to get some latitude for people who do have something to talk about and do have some concerns thank you again for your time appreciate that very much thank you Mr Carr um couple things uh Mr shotty do you want to give a summary on the first one um from bloomenfeld on the uh noise indoor outdoor is that something that can be defined Within the language um I'd say our attorney and I could certainly look into that um this was only introduction um but as as it's written it doesn't preclude the enforcement against indoor either it does apply indoor and outdoor the way it's written yeah it's not it's not specific to outdoor I don't know you know when I mean maybe it is generators it talks about contractors so it limits it to that so if it's a property owner running a generator it's not going to apply so it it's just running of a generator unless they're running construction equipment I'm just not sure that that would apply to this um so it the limitation is on contractors not not on property owners but it does not specify outside work okay anyone else have comments mayor any comments um I would just you know ask if we could check that because I'm I am surprised even from a noise ordinance perspective if we were exceeding the noise ordinance why the police would not have responded so um not that I'm questioning that I'm just wondering if there's something you know lacking in the ordinance that they were not able to follow through so we could just check that and make sure that um how that's addressed we can also look into a specific instance I mean it's as as Tiana said it's hard to I mean if a homeowner is doing work in their own property and you know when it's outdoors you see work happening it's easier for the police you know otherwise they're going to knock on the door and say want to go into your house and see what's going on I think we run into some other issues there um oh yeah absolutely so you know somebody's at home they have the day off they want to do some work around their own house you're not going to preclude that um it's more of if a contractor is being hired at the stage but then it does apply you'll see the trucks you'll see the Vans you'll see Crews coming in and out so it's a little easier to enforce that um so just sometimes from practicality it's one thing to have an ordinance on books and it's another thing to figure out how do we actually enforce it so you're not just having something that's unenforceable and with the generator if there was an actual noise ordinance violation that would be applicable any day of the week not just Sundays and holidays if there was if the noise was at the level of being a violation okay and how about uh the defin smoking definition the state definition of the reference or the final language is that something something that could easily be yes I'll take a look at that because I I appreciate that concern about vaping for sure so yep we'll take a look at that I do believe we have an ordinance about smoking on Municipal property which I don't know if that includes vaping but that is addressed elsewhere in the code book so we can take a look at perhaps it will be something that we need to amend that portion of the ordinance so we will take a look at that okay and then moving on to Mr Carr's questions a little bit more um extensive uh particularly on the Oprah definition of what's available how it's available and those kinds of things um I guess between the administrator and the clerk is that a conversation that can be clarified today or something you want to come back to it's something to come back to I mean uh we we are undergoing a uh website revamp we're adding a lot more information and organizing a lot better so uh hopefully that will will um address a lot of the records that people are looking for we'll be able to find them a lot more simply on our website now um but even still I could I don't want to speak for our clerk but I mean I get it too we get people who submit op requests for things that are already on the website anyways they just don't they don't want to do the work themselves to find it so they think let me just send it into the clerk and have them do the work for me and you know then the clerk is often times saying okay here the you know the budget's a perfect example by law we have to put that on there and I did have he still gets Opa requests for that just a few days ago I got an Opa request for the budget and last year's annual debt statement which my response was to send the person links to the website where they've been posted for quite some time so we we do post stuff to the website people don't bother to look at the website um one of the most common requests I get is for um permit summaries for real estate transactions on the website we have we Grant access to the sdl portal so people can look that up themselves if they bother to take the time but I still get uh frequent requests several a week for uh for those yeah no I I appreciate that however I think the question is a little more extensive on on possibilities of access a little bit more you know from from the data availability so that the website can be used more or the the access is available to them and I think that's more what the comment was gener at least that's my understanding what the comment was more generated at no I understand in the changing Dynamic of the rules as as they are changed uh but I think it's something for consideration if certainly between the mayor and the and the administr how we might be able to respond to the very specific requests that'd be terrific all right and uh the one we missed go ahead Mark other comments from the committee no um I I think Mr Carr's comments in general are just about Resident friendliness in terms of information and I think we can do a better job and you don't have to look too far back just two meetings ago when we were discussing uh Colony pool design and the public document was not available before the public public meeting and it wasn't available online so we we didn't have that until we had the special meeting and that was a big problem so it is a disposition it's not a question it's not a technological hurdle it's a disposition and so when those kind of things get done and they're done repeatedly then people are saying well what other documents are there or like you know Green Village connector Trail you know that there was a complaint from um coming from a group of residents that that came here repeatedly was like they wanted more access to more of the documents and design documents so I think that um without getting you know picking it apart I I think you can absolutely have a greater commitment to having documents that are relevant to the public available publicly particularly when they pertain to a meeting and we're not doing it when they pertain to a meeting then the idea is that hey maybe we're not doing this with other things at other times and so I I think we could start there let's start with making sure that the meetings have we have full agenda packets with all the information that's one of my big issues with the workshop meetings because we have tons of documents and things that we talk about in reference that the public doesn't see so it doesn't make a lot of sense to me um how this is being done so when someone comes in and questions and says hey you know I would like to have an easier way to search or look for or call in or you know I'm concerned about Oprah this is the Genesis this is the reason why you're you're getting those questions so if we're talking about Oprah still Oprah does have exemptions for um you know draft and deliberative documents so let's not confuse Oprah with you know transparency for meeting documents if someone puts in an Oprah request for a draft deliberative document I'm Bound by the law to uh deny that I certainly defer to you in the technicals here and I'm just I'm saying I think the sentiment um is based in those lackings and we've seen them manifest themselves here which to that end if the committee wants as a policy matter to release certain draft doc doents pertaining to meetings on the website you know the committee can adopt a policy about that to give me specific Direction okay we can follow with that with with the mayor um any other comments from the committee just the last one on Oak the the that that was brought up also yes please the the condition of approval um did did not specify that had to be free it just simply says that they shall not unreasonably withhold permission for us to request to use the property uh and you know so it gave them latitude in that I think that language of shall not unreasonably withhold permission allows them fortunately they're they and we are just following the conditions of that approval so anything else Madame mayor anything from afar um I I don't want to speculate on what Mr Carr was going to ask or say regarding the Green Village Trail but I will say that um the the residents had asked that we would do a site visit and we wanted to hold off until September to make sure you know most were around it does because a become a little complicated to have all five of us because then when you have to uh have a you know meeting notice and especially in that location just becomes a little bit complicated so we're going to have have to figure that out but the goal is to have site whether whether it's one or multiple site visits for the committee members occur in September so I just wanted to make residance aware of that okay thank you uh any other comments ments questions motion to adjourn moved I be happy to make a motion to adjourn thanks good night everybody recording stopped