my Let's see we are good good yep good welcome to the township recording in progress talk to me that we're actually in meeting so great welcome to the township of chadam Workshop meeting for June 11th 2024 uh if I may ask everyone to stand for pledge of allegiance States stand indivisible andice I'd like to note that Mr lanti has given adequate notice for this evening's meeting we have uh a single resolution on the agenda I'd like hearing Citizens First oh my apologies uh would like to open up for hearing of C citizens Mr lanti members of the public are now welcome to come up to the microphone to address the township committee this is an opportunity for any member of the public to be heard about issues which are not topics scheduled for public hearings tonight those presents those present May step up to the microphone to be heard if you're watching via Zoom you may speak during any of the public comment sessions by following the zoom instructions to raise your hand whether in person or online when you are recognized to speak please mind the following procedures please say your name spell your last name and give the name of your street you do not need to give your street number all public comments will be limited to 3 minutes rather than use any of your time answering questions the township committee will wait until you finish speaking before responding there will be two public comment sessions on tonight's agenda each member of the public will be limited to one comment of up to 3 minutes during each public comment period written comments submitted to the Township Clerk before 3 p.m. today will be read during the public comment sessions written comments are subject to the same guidelines as oral comments duplicative written comments may be summarized rather than read in full according to guidelines issued by the New Jersey Division of local government services and now we we we do not have any written comments tonight um Mr lanti we have anyone online or uh we do not have any hands raised on Zoom thank you Mr lanti I believe we do not have anyone in the room um so I would like to ask for a motion to close uh public hearing is closed um move on to resolutions we have a single resolution on the agenda I would like to make a motion to adopt uh resolution 20243 2 amending capital budget b moved do I have a second I'll second perfect thank you uh I'd like to open up for discussion okay well I guess I'll begin uh I'll just start off with my Old Reliable here workshop for format I guess we're introducing resolutions and ordinances as we discussed last time in this Workshop so extensively no different than any other meeting I I think if we sat three feet higher in the air behind us wouldn't make a difference and we wouldn't need these Workshop meetings all right but to the substance of what I want to talk about with this resolution we're amending a capital budget this has to do with uh it's desirable to Res to revise the funding sources and debt authorized to the existing capital projects we're essentially authorizing $4.4 million in debt um that is a for my calculation almost 24% increase in debt to this Township and to put that in context for whatever purpose uh for whoever might be listening and for the Public's understanding that's something like 40% of all Municipal tax revenue collected um in local taxes for municipal purposes so under the municipal rate collect around $1 million 4.4 $4 million would be about 40% that's in a single year I I'll have more to say about this because there's a there's a bond ordinance that comes up about that follows immediately after that about specific items of debt but you know this wasn't necessary in the past two years we're issuing a tremendous amount of debt um or or authorizing a tremendous amount of debt I don't think it's appropriate um and if you need any evidence that there's some confusion on this committee about how much debt to issue or when to issue debt or what to do with debt you need to look no further than um another resolution that we passed just last session which was a resolution to resend and to cancel uh and resend an ordinance that was $420,000 roughly of debt to buy 12 acres in chatam Township any anyone would take that deal any any Resident any citizen of this town would take a deal uh of $420,000 for 12 acres anywhere in chadam Township um instead we're paying cash for that we rescinded our earlier decision this year to issue debt and now we are going to be paying cash for that land um that is the longest advertised asset that you that you can put um in in debt and what ends up happening is that would that could be that $420,000 could be paid off over 40 years and of course is an asset that doesn't depreciate but rather as everyone knows land in chattam Township appreciates instead we'll be issuing a ton more debt um in in under this capital budget in order to buy mostly depreciating assets uh so I I think there's a lot of confusion on this committee I think we've loaded up with a lot of debt and it's not been required in the last two years and uh it's only this year that that's been that it's been required so I'm a hard no on this resolution if I might mik please um I have a little bit different perspective um and there's a couple things that that you touched upon um number one there was not the you know it if there's an issue with the amount of debt that we're talking about then what do we not Finance um and so rather than none of us want to incur a significant amount of debt particularly in making grow in shorter periods of time then build up over time but we have some very specific Capital items which I suspect you may talk about on the next U the next discussion um separate from that and going back and listening to your conversation from the prior meeting um and trying to uh think about that a little bit um when we talk about property acquisition uh it's very clear that this particular property goes away and is not going to appreciate essentially it's going to be taken off an appreciating value because there's nothing that's going to be able to be done with it um for sale in other words if you take a residential property and you buy it and can develop it uh there'll be limitation on the amount of development that we can do so I don't I don't really see the um the uh the argument holding a lot of water uh regarding uh taking the advantage of the lower rates of and amortization over 40 years because even 40 years we're not going to sell that property so um well indeed so uh the fact of the matter is um I I just want to point out again to the public to say that we have a little bit of confusion on the uh committee here I don't think there's a lot of confusion I think there's different perspective um perhaps um but if I could eliminate all of this debt and and not Ur it at this point uh that' be great but we have some very serious things uh and very legitimate things that we must finance and so uh I'm going to be and uh support this resolution tonight yeah the confusion is in that the the the debt was already issued and then it was rescinded so that that is it's self-proving that there's confusion you issued the debt and said this was a good idea and then anyone go cares to go back to the last meeting it was rescinded and while I gave many uh objections to resending it there was Zero arguments against resending it there was silence against uh but that was rather for resending it was simply is this a good idea yeah it's a good idea because it is indefensible and there is confusion not to go back and forth but I take exception to but we look at things very differently and we agreed to disagree on on the characterization of what you describe well I think for just to be accurate and clear no debt was issued right no debt was issued nothing went to Capital markets um so uh I I think what's happened is a further consideration was taken by the committee and it was a change in in Direction which I think uh is ultimately in the best interest of of the township and its residents uh I think with respect to Workshop format I think at some point you know some point in time before my time uh it was um a majority of which uh the committee agreed that this would be a an effective format um I think it it it works uh adequately uh like anything else I think as opposed to throwing a baby out with the bath boat I think there are uh perhaps considerations that we can make to improve the format but I think the most important thing is we still afford a forum uh for the public to listen in uh and partake should they choose to do so on matters that are discussed in the public session uh by uh the members of the committee so um uh you know I I receive I receive your um concerns um with regard to the format of the workshop I think we've received them multiple times but I I I do believe that um that's something that we can certainly discuss uh offline and to the extent that it it you believe it warrants that time uh but I think I think we still are able to uh administer Municipal governance here fairly fairly effectively um on the matter of the debt I think uh you're quite right I think it's about in the neighborhood about 4 and a half million uh in debt you know I think roughly 80% is with regard to significant uh purchases uh for fire um it is with respect to two vehicles One ladder truck and another vehicle that has gone beyond um um uh it's it's not just useful life but I think it does pose if I understanding correctly safety issues for our firemen and women um so I think we find ourselves unfortunately in this position because we've um uh there have been deferred decisions to make these Capital uh Investments um and so we've got a number of vehicles that have now kind of overlapped on one another and and we've got not just one but now two so I think um with respect to decisions that are made today uh regarding um this resolution I think it there's quite a bit of clarity in that um this is this is a resolution in connection with um uh a bond that is supporting our valuable Public Services fire and police a good chunk of this money is going to those two uh fire vehicles and for safety equipment to empower uh and enable our our Public Safety fireing police to uh affect their duties uh for for the residents of Township so I I think this is a an absolute necessity I don't think debt in of itself is nefarious as might be suggested it is it is a financial tool within the realm of Municipal governance um and I think as long as it's administered uh wisely um uh it's a valuable tool in the tool set for municipal governments it is debt is there precisely for the reason that um approved budgets are are fixed lots and so you can't necessarily um and it's a function of ratables right Revenue that comes in from tax receipts and uh that's a number that does not waver significantly you know it's it's single single digit percentage points when you've got Capital Investments that are in the millions uh it is Municipal Finance it is capital markets there that every municipality must happen to in order to uh provide the equipment and deliver the services that are crucial to running a safe Town um so uh um I would respectfully disagree I think there's tremendous Clarity here on the importance and criticality to do this uh you know now I think we've almost virtually run out of time to make timely decisions with regard to these Investments um so that would be my closing comment here um I don't know if anyone else anything to add or refute yeah if I could add to that um yeah when I the look at the debt that we're looking to take on 3.3 million alone is from the two fire trucks and then as Deputy Mayor Choy had mentioned there are other uh other equipment that's required by our fire department so that's the bulk of the debt that needs to be taken on now I know there were some suggestions um made about fundraising that we ask our um fire departments to fundraise to help pay for those trucks uh that discussion you know you know I think we need to fund these fire trucks and make sure our departments have the equipment that they need these are volunteer fire departments we are fortunate that we're not having to pay the salaries and the benefits for the folks that uh support our fire department so I'm looking to make sure that they have the equipment that they need and that is the bulk of the debt that we're looking to take on so I'm not I'm not sure what suggest it otherwise um the other reality is the discussion about the feny property and incurring debt in instead they are the $400,000 worth of debt which would you know effectively more than double the amount that our taxpayers our residents pay over uh the time that it's funded um that has to be funded out of open space so there is no alternative unless we're suggesting spending even more money bringing on the debt and then spending that 400,000 on some accelerating something else that we might spend that money on but that has to be paid out of open space that's where those funds are coming from so that's where the alternate would have to come from so they're two different we're we're comparing in some ways we're comparing two different things you can't pay for your fire trucks out of open space so I will support uh this resolution uh and just quickly to dovetail um mayor ew's point I think the the use of funds out of open space uh to purchase what is commonly referred to as fensky is precisely the Mandate for open space um those are you know the prescribed directives there are to do exactly what we intend to do uh for uh by virtue of the acquisition of of the fensky property um so it's very certainly consistent with uh with that mission well I I will just say that if there's $695,000 collected in open space funds in a tax it is a tax and if you were to pay over 40 years $20,000 a year to go $800,000 to acquire that land well that would be $20,000 against that $695 now curly certainly there's other obligations however what you're doing by putting the 420,000 is you're putting all of the benefit of those dollars to the current taxpayer and to the current resident and that means you can't do things like make an improvement at Nash field to improve the bathrooms which are not in a great great condition you can't go to make canopies and coverings over um the dugouts in that that are needed and would make it more commensurate with other communities at many of our Fields you couldn't uh you couldn't make innumerable and I'm sure we go through a very long list of things that would be beneficial to Recreation and to open space and active and uh and passive recreation in this town so there's always trade-offs for for everything I do understand the reasoning behind it I don't agree with the reasoning behind it I also don't agree that a current taxpayer should pay every dollar of for future enjoyment um for all you know for for residents that you know that they may never see mean that they may never see they should be able to see a a a portion of those of their tax dollar today going to use for something that is somewhere in the near future for for them as you know and futured residents can certainly pay uh on the order of $20,000 out of 700,000 we could pay that towards acquisition of land which is as I had said previously not depreciated any other outstanding comments all right um I will then close discussion would like to move uh to a vote Mr Lewis no Mr McHugh yes mayor Troy yes and mayor e yes motion passes thank you Mr lanti um next up on the agenda uh is uh introduction of ordinances um I'd like to uh make a motion to introduce ordinance 2024 -14 Municipal purpose Bond ordinance um so move do I have a second second thank you Mary wal uh would like to open up for discussion I think we covered a lot of this already but um yeah I mean I'm I'm looking through the list again and the vast majority is safety related it's Public Safety related um the ladder trucks police vehicles and Equipment uh fire department equipment self-contained breathing apparatus for the fire department uh some small amount 15,000 for technology equipment so uh you know this is not we this is not uh a nice to have this is a need to have so I support this ordinance any other members of the committee y sure so I'll just pick up where I left off um absolutely there's elements of this that are paying for safety and one of my deepest commitments is to Safety in this community particularly the police particularly the fire department and uh any anyone involved in those um organizations in this town I believe knows that my commitment to those uh organizations and to their purpose and that I would put Public Safety as the very first thing in any initiative the issue here is that because of that very purpose the idea that we're going to be um putting down $137,000 in debt for a five for for a period of usefulness of five years for police equipment is ridiculous that money should absolutely been appropriated in the operating budget I showed during the discussion of the operating budget how we could free up not only $130,000 but how we could free up $500,000 and even if a portion of that um my suggestions were made that this could easily have been uh resolved in cash the reason for that is that buying police cars with debt is a terrible Habit to get into because as if you read through the whole Bond um or the authorization here what you end up with is um an amortization over 17.59% go to bonds because it's probably not big enough it'll probably stay in bands but regardless you got 17.5 n years and I know from my time on the finance committee paying off fire trucks paying off roads paying off police cars by refinancing debt for things that had long uh outlived their usefulness but were still being carried is the worst thing you can do for the taxpayer and those departments themselves so um I if you do support Public Safety this 137,000 would have absolutely been paid for in cash and I showed multiple times in multiple ways how that could be could been done and in a multiple of this not not 137 exactly or even anywhere near close to that so that that's to me this that's not even on the table this is just not properly planned the next thing I would talk about is the fire trucks um and things like the breathable uh you know scbas are in here so I myself have written the grants to get breathable air mixture compressor to buy scva bottles um I I believe our fire departments know my commitment to to the fire department and when I say that I've written them I'm not I'm not saying that I participated in in those um drafts I'm saying that I filed those grants um or completed all the filings for those grants so what I'm saying is I don't think that of those departments question my uh my prioritization of their effectiveness and and need in our community however this is these trucks which are the a huge amount of money absolutely should have been staggered and paid for maybe prior to this committee's formation however uh we are in the situation we are in and what has to happen with this is if if you think that that uh buying these two trucks right now somehow replaces them or solves it in the near term it really doesn't these trucks are going to be on a two-year build build these trucks are in some cases not fully specified yet we're issuing debt for them in some cases not fully priced yet we're issuing debt for them in a definitive amount so that's number one number two is that the build time is two years so this is not an immediate fix for anything and and number three is to stagger the purchase of these things would benefit future committees as well so when they are fully spec or when they are fully priced we can always issue debt then we don't have to do it in this one you know 20 whatever it is 40% of our operating 40% of Municipal tax rate and and uh 24% increase in overall debt we can stagger this thing out for to when this comes in we also have outstanding gr grants that we don't know the outcome of those so we could authorize this money um you know at another time to to pay this is not an immediate solution is is my point um and as far as the the the ladder truck and you know the other truck that's that's being purchased here of course I support them it's just like I supported having a fire and REE L on and I've been the one who's been uh crying and complaining about getting that back so that the these departments have a a better voice directly to this committee but the this is not necessary right now it can be staggered out in my view can I can I ask Mr shahadi can you explain uh can you explain kind of the how this fits relative to the uh incurrence of debt and the payments and the whole timing of everything I apologize was that for me yes yes okay um to kind of put this a little bit in perspective this ordinance is no different than the fensky ordinance that someone just complained about canceling right it's just an authorization there was no actual issuance of debt with the fensky thing as Deputy Mayor correctly pointed out and there is no automatic issuance of debt with this ordinance these ordinances are authorizations the reason the fensky ordinance was authorized was because was a matter of timing to ensure that we had the funds available in order to enter into a contract prior to the adoption of the budget the budget was adopted the funds were available there was no need for that ordinance therefore was able to be canel prior to the issuance of any debt similar with this as had been explained in previous meetings to the governing body and to the public we have staggered the purchases of the vehicles the 7-year Capital plan that I did demonstrate present and showed had fire department vehicles and just about every one of those years because they are being staggered they're being staggered because just the luck of the draw you five this year happen to be the ones holding that holding that responsibility that burden but also responsibility to the taxpayers and to Public Safety to authorize that debt as I explained by authorizing this debt it doesn't automatically get issued we are not going to issue that debt right away we are going to issue the debt when the funds are needed now in order for the fire department to contract with a company we need to have authorization for funds the CFO and by law the governing body is not allowed to award a contract unless the funds can be certified by the CFO as being available this authorization allows her to do that then when the time comes to need those funds we will issue that debt and only the debt that is needed meaning typically you're required to put down a down payment to have the company start making start working on the project the bigger the down payment the cheaper the total cost of the truck is so if you're able to make more of a down payment in the beginning the overall cost is cheaper but regardless the goal of the fire departments is to make an award or ask you to make an award sometime towards the end of the year in order to do that you would need this authorization and then once we know what that down payment is our CFO working with Bond Council would then issue that debt in the amount that is actually needed um as I mentioned those requests are staggered they have been staggered um and this authorization does not preclude us getting other funds meaning I did work very hard with the fire departments to submit an American firefighter Grant through FEMA in the total amount of approximately $3 million for these fire trucks however by the time the federal government Awards those funds notifies us of those funds gets those funds to us could take a long long time if we were to get that money that would just simply offset or allow us to prepay whatever we borrowed once we get that award in the case of for example the police department we've gotten an award from the police department for FEMA for quite some time it took us quite a bit of time to get that money and that authorization and if we just wait for those the fire department is just going to continue kicking the can down the road and not being able to get the specs sign a contract and have a vendor start working on these fire trucks that are so desperately needed uh with police vehicles we're on an annual cycle where we're trying to replace what is it almost two every every so years so that way we don't have a large large amount of debt that we have to authorize in any given Year and that has been something that folks like kedan Lois and other members of the governing body have voted on in previous authorizations for debt now the fire department you only get one ladder every every few decades you're not going to have a rotation of laders sitting in there so yes the idea of Staggering is great and that's exactly what we're doing here by way of this seven-year plan uh and the amending the capital budget resolution that was just authorized before okay I was invoked there my name was brought up Capital ordinances that I have voted yes on in the past two years were entirely focused entirely paid for in cash what that means is that not only were those Vehicles paid for in cash not only did that happen and that was under our current administrator's um watch so it's a little bit hard for me to understand the the memory Gap here but the capital ordinance was in cash and so not only did that pay for the vehicle what it also allowed was that the way those Capital ordinances were written is that because there was no useful life uh tied to debt the money in those Capital ordinances are the are the most fungible they can be moved around and used to pay for almost anything any Capital that's U named in that ordinance so those were that gave the um the most uh flexibility to our community and it was done in cash it was not done but you did vote to reauthorize and reissue a very large amount of debt in 2022 that incorporated vehicles and other things that you're disagreeing with tonight absolutely I absolutely refinanced 17.3 no what it did was we refinanced 17.3 million in this town and debt that could have been paid off Mr Shah the rules of this committee are such that I get to speak especially the commit are Parliamentary procedure so it's not a back and forth either but every time inv your name I I made a comment every time somebody invokes your name you take that as invitation to have another five more minutes that's not parliamentary procedure so we're either going to go by the Parliamentary procedure like you want or we're not Mr shotty um if you can read the rules of this committee uh we don't follow we follow Robert's Rules a parliamentary procedure is something separate if you need to review that with the attorney I suggest you do that in your own time not during the public kindly make your closing closing marks if you could I I think the best interest we have a lot of Manpower here I think it's the best interest to not debate parliamentary Vier or Robert Rules of Order that can certainly be I agree I was making my point I was interrupted repeatedly if we could kindly stick to the matter at hand we're talking about U uh potentially passing happed yeah absolutely I was part of finance committee we re we quickly in in um the very first year I was here in three months we had to uh refinance all the debt of this town and extended out and in that year we saved over $600,000 interest payments Alone by doing that for the first time ever um a large entity in Morgan Stanley purchased uh purchased our debt at auction that allowed us and we by bundling it all together and not having small issuances we maximized the efficiency of going to Market which is a very expensive process so going to Market with even one two three4 million in debt often doesn't make any sense so bonds are never actually issued we were actually able to issue the bonds and push them all together the only bonds we didn't issue were bonds that couldn't be prepaid that couldn't be paid down early for some reason those were um locked up in 2013 but actually what we issued can be refinanced and the the holding period is very short I believe it was seven years so I'm very proud of the refinance that we did and the only thing that could have benefited this Township was that we could have refinanced earlier if we had refinanced a year or two years earlier under the previous Democratic majority then we would have saved even more money over a much longer period of time uh in closing I think you know making statements with uh hindsight Advantage I think is not of value to our residents um so I'd like to I'd like to say I think my understanding unless unless I'm mistaken is uh there were elements in there with useful life significantly less than what what the term will be for the bond with respect that 17 million so I think at the end of the day the practice is um identifying things that we can pay for today within the budget and if it's not in the budget we can certainly uh entertain it for the capital budget for the following year or we can Finance it um and I think that the the rationale for the elements that have included in this multi-purpose Bond ordinance today that is -14 um I think those elements are uh of the utmost interest to support U our Public Safety professionals uh whether it's it can be part uh part and parcel of the uh Bond uh or paid out right uh those are determinations that are made by admin ministrator based on uh his numerous years of in Municipal governance along with our CFO and and the finance committee so um I I think in closing what I'd like to say is and move on uh to the extent that we any one of us has an objection I think it's far more productive to bring it up for discussion and debate before uh we come to the meeting I think um I think using using everyone's time here and the Public's time for those who who tune in um debating these uh what I feel to be a little bit at nauseum with no with no real productive outcome uh I think is is is inefficient use of time so um so you preer that Deputy Mayor can I just I haven't had an opportunity to speak excuse me Deputy Mayor yes I haven't had an opportunity to speak if you wouldn't mind yes I'm I'm really tired of the political spinning that is going on and I want to make very clear some things that were stated are number one this committee is advised by our CFO who's got about 25 years experience working with the township by our Auditors who advised by our bond counsel by our bond uh financial advisors by our administrator that has three decades of experience we have a strong finance committee recently added on somebody with Decades of financial experience so I appreciate the spin in a political election year but when we're talking about I I can't even believe there was a discussion about almost 4 million in public safety debt that is needed versus 137,000 whether that's debt or whether that's in the operating budget which the operating budget was gone through with a fine tooth comb by again our CFO our auditor our administrator a whole host of people I am really getting sick and tired of the spin and if residents want to know the facts feel free to reach out to me and I'll have a lengthy conversation with you about my 5 years on the township committee and my experience in the finance committee and my experience with this administrator with our CFO with our auditor all the experts who have advised us and I appreciate and yes I will invoke his name Mr Lois's belief that he is one the one and only person who has fixed everything but there's a lot of reality that goes behind that and I want to make sure sure residents have the opportunity feel free to reach out to me because I will provide you with the reality thank you very much for allowing me this opportunity thank you Mary W I did nothing else I'd like to make a motion uh we have a motion in a second we just need to call for a vote okay please uh would like to uh call for a vote Mr Lewis no Mr M MCH uh yes Deputy Mayor Troy yes mayor y yes motion passes and public hearing will be on June 25th thank you Mr lanti um onto reports uh Mr shahadi is there a uh prescribed uh order that you'd like to suggest may I would Deputy May I'm sorry defer to you I mean we have our police chief and our construction official here this evening um both of them to uh discuss items on their agenda so it's up to you who You' like to go first and then we can go through the rest of it well I would like to suggest chief M I think probably in terms of a bulk of information that would be um optimal to have him present first welcome again Chief good evening again uh so Deputy Mayor the chief uh we do have two resolutions on for the next agenda which are Personnel we discussed those in executive um he did provide his report which we could uh discuss I mean I didn't get any questions on that beforehand uh but certainly if you'd like to discuss it the main reason the Chiefs here is for a discussion on the intersections of Southern and river and noi and Shunpike now Southern and River believe you had some information on that your agenda packet uh was partially mentioned in the chief's report there was some some supporting documentation on that as well noi and Shunpike is uh more of Dipping the toe in the water right now on that one so um Chief Southern in River yeah so for the past couple years we we've had an issue with the intersection of River Road and Southern bord um the pro problematic part is the left turn green arrow um we've been looking at our stats and we're trying to improve our intersection safety and as a result of that my traffic safety officer uncovered um a pretty high likelihood of a crash due to that Arrow so we we've contacted the county and got their take on what what we should do they recommend being that the equipment is so old I believe it's about 40 years old in order to do anything at that intersection that whole intersection need to be improved so uh their recommendation is a 7030 split I guess there we have an agreement with them that goes back a very long time and this is has been an issue since 2011 was the first time the county was approached to improve this intersection so I'm looking to get some improvements done there um so I guess I'll I'll set the stage for that unless there's any specific questions to that um the next process would be next steps in the process would be that we would enter into negotiation with the county to come up with an interlocal agreement or at least anou based on the agreement that already exists I think you all got a copy of that very old agreement so we would have a resolution and anou to effectuate the terms specific to this intersection um this intersection uh that Chief did rais to me along with as I mentioned our Capital discussion uh previous meetings of the road budget this would fall under the road budget so we do have funds in there so that balance from what the award contract for the roads would be and for intersection improvements or other things that do happen that we have to account for would come out of that uh that authorization um to be able to to pay for this we also are exploring and researching the possibility that the county may be holding on to some additional funds for us to the tune of about 775,000 from old projects in the past which would also be to be contributed to those these either Chief Miller or um Mr shotti could you associate dollar estimates to the 7:30 split at this time I think we we got a a generic estimate yeah I think that may spreadsheet may have been included in the packet I can't recall but I do have believe left up it looked like a little over $100,000 130 this this is actually for different inter section um that would be the no because that's a 5050 split I believe it was like 87,000 so this is for Southern Southern river river which left hand turn is this leading town if you're going down hill no if you're coming up River Road from new Province new make the left on Southern B and the proposal is to eliminate the left hand turn great either eliminate it or make it at the beginning of the cycle not the end right now it's at the end of the cycle which is backwards to the typical intersection um but we can't just take it out according to the county we have to upgrade the whole the whole intersection in the event chief that we remove the left turn signal portion I think that would be a a significant change to the flow of traffic there correct particularly for the morning I know that's a big morning commute run um how can we be informed Ely as to whether or not that consideration is the is going to be the way to go and what um what input can we have there we could make whatever recommendation we want I I would recommend that we put it at the beginning of the cycle okay Ty so that would be the strong preference yes to extent that it's some other option we certainly would have a voice and opportunity to okay to uh contest okay um some things to note though with this because it's an old intersection syst system right um it would be brought up to current standards and the latest and greatest which some of the benefits are it's got a generator Outlet as well so if there are events of townwide power outage disruptions too you can hook up generators to them that eliminates the need for public you know police officers pres and things like that um which and allows them to deal with like I know in Hurricane Sandy when a lot of towns had power outages I don't know if that was an issue here but intersections fail now you're taking res valuable resources to we have the capability now there at that one we did put a plugin for a generator oh you did okay great these new ones would be led and they would run out of battery backup for an extended period of time um so that would give us I don't know what the run time on that is but it would give us more time to get the deploy Genera and um the county would do 100% of the design costs okay and we're only paying for the portion of the actual the construction equipment that you know the the signal itself um they handle that so then they would come back to us uh during the final design and there would be a full cost share agreement with the actual construction cost dollars so you know what they uh provided was an intersection uh you know this was uh had a total construction cost of that time I forget this where this in this intersection was but it wasn't in chadam and they said that that total cost at that time was $383,000 for that that intersection but um yeah and that had existing condition there's everything that you got to deal with in terms of the curbing the drainage other issues that you know get that possibly are affected by this as well so the first thing is we would send them a formal letter uh and a resolution of support noting that we want them to move ahead with the design starting with design and then we have an option going to you know back out on the final end of things and I believe that happened once before 2018 with the intersection of Green Village and Shan bite yes with the design take into consideration what is currently like a limited line of sight right so it it kind of is elevated right so if you're coming and I think that's part we designed everything in that intersection I I didn't have the opportunity to speak to the engineer My Traffic Safety Officer did so I believe that's a complete redesign of that whole intersection does that then do maybe we don't know enough because we're not far enough a longer understanding design but didn't we just do all that ADA work down there with the ramp are there any dimensional things that have to be changed or river not not there yeah yeah there were some ID no I understand I understand but but that was just done I I would assume that when they did that that was brought into compliance that question so I don't know if they're going through you know do the same thing or reuse it or we don't know with the same okay so it's early yet on this okay thank you in fact they Ada ramps to nowhere right corre yeah there there's few of those that's just not here in the township it's yeah I know okay any any other questions comments from members of the committee seeking uh from you uh so that way for the next meeting if that's the wi to have a resolution of support as the county requests um that way we can make the formal request to them start the process um so I I I think it's a it's it's a critical component Public Safety um I see no reason why we wouldn't uh I would be in favor I would favor I I just don't understand enough about noi and Shunpike um it seemed to me like reading through the packet of information that that was something that had to do more with pedestrian crosswalks and uh you know a signaling for pedestrian correct right yeah we were just right Southern River want to get that out of the way not oh that's fine if you want to do that but Southern River good I mean I've heard two that's fine I'm fine with Southern River to explore it but because I don't think we understand the cost of it but explore it okay and then Chief do you want to start talking about noi and shik yeah no noi and shike you know we again started looking at our intersections to try to improve them um we have gotten a complaint or two about um no pain of crosswalks at the intersection the buttons are not operational there's also no Walk Don't Walk signal so for for pedestrian traffic it it's not in compliance um again the county for that intersection would be a 50/50 split if we chose to do anything um again it would take 100% of the design cost I believe on that one as well but the actual construction would be 50/50 because it's it's half Township and um c c so so again that is basically for Des safety uh Chief Miller this is this is prompted this particular intersection consideration prompted by a um by concern yes by member of the public um and what would be so there would be design uh performed by do oh that that would be the county be count right County do okay um maybe 50/50 split do you have um are there any is there any data uh that you can present this time um they can share with the committee accident wise at no and shaik no um that's that's not a typical accident hotspot in town southern and and River Road yes I think I think I provided you some that on that it seems like the Noy one is strictly a pedestrian ped issue so from that perspective it's just you know pedestrian safety more so than his vehicular could impact you know could impact the other but um and so at this time before the committee is is um it is to enable the County DOT to move ahead with looking into further part possible with you know putting together design uh investigation design for what could be changed there correct uh do we have I would love I would love to [Music] be um certainly want to be respond to uh any uh input from members of the resent but I would also like to be more proactive and ahead of this in terms of um looking at the circulation element on on the master plan and even have some sort of uh you know Public Safety public streets type um uh consideration as we look at all the major intersections um Asos to oppos to just responding ad hoc um I think that way we can feel more confidence to okay here are the you know the more critical ones that we warrant our attention um and then we can uh align our budget considerations uh in that way the only thing with that generally speaking I think is because they're signalized there's more of a cost you know the other ones cost sorry a significant cost significant cost because we don't we you know C wrong you all the signals are on intersections with the county yes so that's why it's you know dealing with this like for example if we're just picking Myersville and you know let's say Myersville and fermont for example right like there's no signal there so there may be some costs you know so you but I don't think they're going to be as great because we're not putting a we don't have a signal now if you want to put a signal obviously the costs are going to be greater I think the reason we're seeing such a big price tag in in these is because of signalized intersections with the c and having to when you do that work you touch them now you got to bring them to current code for a signal but they're 40 years old and they're out of compliance we can't even change the the traffic head without changing the entire yeah that's why we're you know we're dealing with this you know like Fairmont that's to your point too like that's why you know crosswalks and and pedestrian safety was a big issue was getting a lot of complaints about children along all those crosswalks on Fairmont so you know we did make an improvement there and that's what's great there too is we got a grant for that but um we will continue to to do that if there's a way we could do a full scale review of the crosswalks in town for safety certainly to do that so yeah I guess I have to agree sorry I'm sorry May Mary well I I have to agree with the deputy mayor that um you know the well a couple things the intersection at Southern and and River I'm totally on board with um some you know doing some work there because Southern and River has been a problem you know I I see it all the time the traffic is backed up and that seems uh you know I think residents would appreciate having that cleaned up and it's just it's unsafe there as well so we just have to improve improve the flow of traffic there when it comes to noi and Shunpike I mean when I pass through there you know when the chief had said in terms of accidents it's not really a hot spot in town but I have to wonder because I know residents complain about a number of other spots either for pedestrian Crossing or you know concerns uh that you know that they think they're more accident prone areas so when it comes to no and chenik I would be interested in seeing that relative to the other intersections in ter you know where that falls out uh prioritization uh in in pursuing improvements relative to other intersections similar intersections okay a final question by giving the green light to um start the uh investigation and perhaps some of the design work there is it's it's it's not a foregone conclusion for the township to um to be involved on financially or otherwise in the project correct in other words is is there zero cost Discovery time for us to say okay um now we understand and what the Count's considering putting there we have uh uh meaningful cost estimates associated with making that a reality and we can further consider that right that's we're not committed to my understanding and I'll I'll confirm is there isn't a commitment because with the Green Village and shight one um that didn't go through well from what I'm told that's why we need a resolution right because we backed out the last time but there was a resolution last time found that to um Debra the Jo um she wants a hard hard res resolution so they may be looking this time for because I you know I did see the 2018 resolution on uh the Green Village one and there was talk of split cost and all that stuff and it seems like they backed out and I can't blame I'm sure you know regardless even if there is a hard agreement County's going to be getting a lot of backlash too um and putting a new intersection I don't know that you know something like this they would get that kind of a backlash on it because it's already there it's just the question of how's how's the timing the signalized is it going to have a left turn or not I can't see how it wouldn't it's just going to be in the beginning that just makes the most sense so um yeah I think you know you do it I think there's going to be a commitment though that you want to complete this because we acknowledge that that timing the way the light is right now was bad okay so the way hold off on the other one I think the noi and we can even look at are there other improvements to make there from a pedestrian perspective I mean I don't we can certainly explore that um maybe there's cheaper ways we talk to them about like better lighting sometimes the the type of the crosswalk you're using rumble strips um you know I don't know if what the feelings are there's like flags that you would put for people when they're crossing the street things like that that might be cheaper alternatives to it we could hold off on the noi one but I think the shanike river one is definitely a safety issue at some point you're going to have to bear that cost so Southern shik rivn River yeah I I would agree I think there's data and I think there's a um Real History to that particular intersection that is um a southern River um that was warant U moving ahead uh I certainly welcome and uh respect opinions that come from the public I I do what I would like to say is um I think the ability for uh I think and I'll speak onf perhaps some of the others for us to move forward with regard to do Shunpike I would like to um look at it with a little bit more rigor you know the extent we can have data um or certainly rely on folks who are subject man experts traffic Consultants Traffic Engineers who can Aline as opposed to um uh folks who don't have subject matter expertise make the decision as to whether or not we move forward um on on that particular project um I think I think would make make sense in my mind okay my question would be on this is just that knowing and shum Pike if if $130,000 which is sort of in the packet is sort of in the in the ballpark I I would just say I don't think that that's a significant value for the township at this point to to move forward because I think the priorities are and I think this committee has to be a little forward-looking in we have um Charlie Browns you know that we have the what are they calling that they calling that uh Cornerstone that's something Corone Cornerstone is coming online and I'm more concerned about that Southern and um Shan Pike you know intersection yeah that's Madison's intersection that's Madison's intersection so we have to touch it so then and that that was recently done so that yeah yeah I do know that I know we're well camed there but it does seem to me like that would be an intersection to watch or maybe even one you were just talking about from 2018 that was you know we we'll see what happens there but I I think that area is going to be more of a hot spot than than um no and shight but I do really appreciate this and I appreciate your report thank you for coming in thank you anything else did we lose mayor any oh okay oh she's there well thank uh there's nothing else all right I'm here thank you Chief Miller thank you Mr sh would you like to move to constru construction thank you Jack so mayor in committee we have with us uh Jack Daniels uh our construction official who also wears the hack of building subcode officer and uh sub building subcode official and also zoning officer um the first item is and this will follow his presentation but um is the hiring of an inspector uh building inspector um that I would like to have on the agenda for the next meeting for consideration um Jack is here because uh the Personnel admin subcommittee which is mayor ewal Comm McHugh myself and Mr Daniels met on U you know just to kind of review process and how things are going in that department and uh there was some some good information that came out of that meeting and I think there's also some information that would benefit the public for their awareness um for some context the department underwent a very significant transformation uh in in the last year uh maybe a year and a couple months we had a longtime construction official uh value member of the team I've been here for over 20 years and he retired and with that um you know there there was change Mr Daniels came in a very seasoned construction official with a lot of experience and uh and subject matter expert who teaches on the topic uh around the state so we we brought in Jack and with that was an opportunity for a fresh set of eyes on process Improvement uh but also making sure things were done that haven't been done in the past uh and unfortun there was a lot of that uniform construction code changes um the process changes regulations from the Department of Community Affairs change uh and Jack being an instructor as well is up to date on all those things and make sure that he is following the most current regulations uh but with that comes growing pains for contractors who have become accustomed to doing things a certain way and so uh at the request of the subcommittee Jack's here to talk about um his Department what's been going on uh things that probably have not been going as well as he or any of us would like but are in the works of improvement and ask for the the patience of the public so um so that's kind of the intro I don't know mayor and committee men if you want to add any more context to to that from the meeting well no I think that was a good summary actually mayor um no I think I'm good okay so Jack with that go forward okay so um as Mr shahadi had indicated U I am responsible for the administration level of the construction office for the UCC aspect the construction code I also wear the hat of the building subcode which is one of the disciplines of the five that deal with u plan review and inspections uh I also go out in the field and do Building Inspections um and that was one of the reasons why we were looking a higher uh part-time building inspectors is so I could stay in the office more to do the administrative aspect and the plan review aspect of the different functions that I have um as Mr sh had indicated we have hired a part-time building inspector he's working two days a week full full-time on those days Tuesdays and Thursdays um there been a tremendous uh help in getting the plan review to the point where I can actually say tonight that as of sitting here waiting to come come before the committee um I caught up on the building construction plan review for building and I caught up on the tree permit application process um I'm still working on the zoning I'm probably about a week out of getting caught up on the zoning aspect but that's strictly due to the aspect of me being able to stay in the office and get those Plan reviews done some of the other hats that I wear is the zoning official and the zoning field inspector uh I have just recently taken the three required classes to obtain the zoning certification that is a recommendation uh from the state and was one of the hiring requirements so I've obtained that um I we also my department also takes care of through me as a zoning official the tree permits so I have to be responsible for the tree applications and the tree removal applications and issuing those permits as well as the Property Maintenance and Zoning complaints that come in so those are all the things that that I take care of and responsible for but that's not everything that the office is responsible for so my other staff is uh besides being responsible for those things the engineering side of it which is our third party Mont McDonald agency um everything comes through our office through the Construction office and is then filtered to the other outside agencies so we take care of lot grading which I I'll discuss about the lot grading aspect Road opening permits uh new sewer applications when there's a new sewer going in or a tie in or a close out of a septic that needs to be have a sanitary sewer tie in um we also deal with a lot of invoice reconciliation for the engineering side of it collecting money from the applicants uh cataloging that and putting that into whether it's an escrow or into the fee structure and into the fee deposit so my staff is responsible for taking care of all that and creating those escrow accounts when it's required uh we also deal with the on the tree permit side or the tree removal permit side there's a contractor registration that's required so we can validate that they have the state license for the license tree expert which is one of the requirements from the ordinance that if they're doing certain things with the trees within the property lines 5 feet of the property lines or Municipal right away that they have to certify why the tree needs to come down and that's done through a licens tree expert um my office also takes care of the fire prevention I don't personally get involved in that but the staff does so any of the permits and applications for smoke detector sales and the recertifications permits for uh carnivals for food trucks that's all handled through my staff um we also take care of course the complaints and we de a lot with the opras as does any department so we have that uh all going through my staff a little bit about the Sor one so he says staff we're talking about two people correct just to clarify it's it's two two people administrative assistants and Technical assistants that are doing all that yes um thank you uh flowchart wise so a little bit about the process so one of the key elements is when somebody comes to the counter for any kind of scope of work that they're deciding to do the key is to find out what it is of course now typically if it's worked outside of the structure it's going to require zoning application so that's usually the first step that they do and then there's key questions that have to be determined and asked based on that because that kicks in depending on the answers that kicks in an engineering review through the lot grading application so what kicks in the lot grading application is three major things or one of the three major things if they're disturbing any uh property that's over a th000 square ft in size that requires a lot grading and this is all because of storm water management requirements that the state has which keep changing and getting more restricted um another one is uh any disturbance that is under 1,000 square F feet that is in in a critical area and a critical area is defined as our Wetlands flood hazards steep slopes with a slope of greater than 15% um or or the last item is anything that's within 5 ft of the property line that affects drainage so there's a vast array of things that could have have a lock grading application the thing about the loot grading is that if a lock grading application is required because of the work it's being done we can't take the zoning application when I say we can't take it we can't do anything with it I have 10 days 10 business days to respond to an application for zoning if I if it's an incomplete application then I can't do anything with it so unfortunately what's happening is a lot of the applications that are coming in are found to need additional information which deems it incomplete and then it sits there until we get that information whether it's a lot rating approval uh or whether it's uh a certified survey that they that they may have I got a survey today as an example from 1997 property doesn't look like that anymore so that causes me to deem it incomplete because I need I need A current survey so a lot of the applications coming in are coming in uh a skew of what is really needed and that's what we're trying to deal with at the counter and that's part of our Growing Pains that we're having um don't know what was going on before but that's that's the things that I've encountered with the zoning applications um there's no administrative fee with the lot grading applications there's a fee that is uh goes to Mt McDonald that pays for their services and helps go into an account similar to an escro that we pay them out of the part of the issue with that is typically what's happening is the fees that they charge us isn't enough for what we're collecting so one of the things that um working on doing it and want to do is to redo the fee ordinance the fee ordinance is is extremely uh outdated I don't think it's been updated uh since either 2008 or previous to that there's been little changes but there hasn't been a major workover and there's a lot of stuff that's in there as Mr Shahidi had indicated with the UCC that has changed that we don't charge for one of those is fire pumps fire pump installation is is a huge effort and a lot of time and a lot of uh resources that go into that we don't have a fee in the schedule for that for whatever reason and we're not a huge commercial uh community and that's probably why it wasn't in there but it still should be in there just in casee it happens there are homes that could put in sprinkler systems that would NE that might need a fire pump now it's on a residential side we had St Hubert's that replaced their fire pump that was not working and we couldn't charge anything for it so basically doing it for free so that's part of the reason why I want to look through the fee ordinance I want to come in line with the demographic communities that are similar to us um I've been checking on that and the folks have folks being our subcode officials who work in other towns have said that we're one of the lowest believe it or not I didn't think we were but that's what I've seem to be finding out so I want to come in line with that and I want to get in line with the state UCC uh F Orin structure to charge for things that we haven't been able to charge for um part of the zoning application process is if they're if they need a zoning application um it's not only just the exterior of the property that might be changing like adding a deck or putting a generator in part of the the process is that to make sure that the loot coverage for the storm water management issues hasn't been exceeded above the ordinance requirements so I got to validate all that through the uh review um part of the issue with that is I can't even take a or my office can't take a zoning application if it's for an existing structure um sorry they can't take a construction application for an exist structure until the zoning is done and that's a UCC requirement it's a state requirement I I can't deviate from that so a lot of the existing structures that we have your your residence for generators uh for pools for anything that's being done that would typically require zoning application we have to wait for the zoning to get done before we can take the uccc application and that wasn't being done in the past so that's part of the growing pain as well is that people are I don't want to say being turned away but being advised thaty this is the process get your ducks in a row with your application this is what we're going to be looking for with a construction perent application once your zoning application is processed um completeness of the applications as I mentioned previously is critical so we're working with the staff to make sure that the correct questions are being asked um I want to create a flowchart to actually put on the website uh to have posted in our office kind of giving the folks an idea as to hey if this is the kind of work that you want to do you're going to start here yes no yes no and follow it through so it take a little time to do that but I think that's going to be a great resource and a great tool for the public uh we talked about tree applications uh their completeness has been a little arai uh the previous staff before I came on board uh one of the administrative assistants was doing the work for the contractors was actually assisting them and filling that out um this the current staff isn't doing that because frankly it's uh it's not that it's not our responsibility but if we put something incorrect on that application or don't have that then we as persons as well as a Township become a little bit liable in that so we're guiding the folks into how to fill out the tree applications um one of the things I want to look at is re doing the fee ordinance Fe the tree ordinance chapter 22 to make it more user friendly the form is seven pages long right now so I want to try toh clean that up and make that more user friendly some of the uh Tree Experts out there have offered their assistance in going through that so um number wise um Oprah wise we've probably handled about 100 to date thank you to Mr lante for providing that information that's the opras that are my staff is handling that come through as an Oprah That's not including the the written request that might be an email that's physically not an Oprah but we still got to treat it as an Oprah so the hundred that you know has been estimated is probably higher than that um like I said tree Tre and uccc permits are up to date um so far there's 20 four uh tree and or UCC applications reviews for from building just from what I look at uh 168 of those have been completed 36 remain outstanding 18 and 18 of those are it's a split between UCC and the tree permits that are outstanding right now so we're caught up on that uh 71 of those applications were trade leaving 133 UCC applications to date that's January to now so where does that track as far as last year um per total permit wise we're about the same last year we were we issued 514 by today's date this year we're at 509 so we're we're right on track um unfortunately what we're not right on track on is the income and that is uh purely because of the types of work and the permits that are being issued we're issuing a lot of the smaller permits now we're doing the wood heaters the generators the furnace Replacements uh the decks and things like that whereas last year we did a lot of Enclave we had a lot of permits from that and the year prior to that They carried off over into 23 so we that development is done the uh chadam Apartments Cornerstone um complex is uh is fee fee waved so we don't have any income from that but we've got all the inspection so I'm going to touch on the inspection what's going on with those um zoning applications there's 126 zoning applications have come in so far 11 remain outstanding leaving 115 that we completed now uh there's been 28 I'm sorry 29 complaints loged so we've had a huge uptick in complaints last year we had about five by this time frame for whatever reason and Mr sh and I spoke briefly about this but there's been a huge uptick in in the complaints and that ranges all the way from grass complaints to intersection sight triangle obstructions to uh people working uh you know taking trees down that don't have approvals to do so so it's just a vast gamut um I've issued 42 uh uniform construction code violations uh sounds like it's a lot but a lot of it is duplicated so even if you were to cut it in half that's probably 24 because if somebody starts work without a permit they're going to get two violations they're going to to stop work and they're going get a violation for not getting the permit so it's it's two for one so uh the gamut of the activities at warrant uh notice is no permit missed inspections we issued unsafe structures uh for two structures in town uh or failed to comply with a lawful order where we issued a notice we gave them an an order to do something no penalty or anything like that and they just didn't comply so that kicks it to the next step uh we're looking to hire another part-time inspector to uh offset those other days that in one day Wednesday we had somebody that we've interviewed and um is a good candidate I think we had talked about that as well so that would leave me to be in the office four days out of the week uh which is good to do the zoning inspections in the field and to do the plan review and administrative work um building inspection so building inspections are up 84% from last year at the same time yeah um Jack if I make um just because we are I'm trying to be mindful of their time if call question could you um so unless you want him to continue I'm going to ask him just kind of summarize the process improvements uh that have been made okay um and then turn it over to them for any questions that I for one would like you to continue because this is the most often U cited issue by res so I would absolutely like to spend the time as much as you need to explain what's going on anything in specific you'd would like Mr Daniels to hit have proceed as you just tal just talked about 84 Building Inspections so yeah so the building inspections are up 84% from last year uh we've done 1300 that's just Building Inspections so we've done 1323 Building Inspections uh for the year whereas last year it was 719 now uh 209 of those are for the chadel apartments but that's that's from last year to this year that's not just for this year so 209 from from June 12th of last year to now a year's time because June 12th ironically is when they started uh their their project that's when they got their first permit so our inspections over that time period for a year for building wise uh is 29 that we've done so even if we take out the pro the the uh TR BR Curr yeah um so if we were even take out the 209 uh inspections that's still is leaving us higher than we were last year so we're doing more inspections we're doing more work but the work is is different it's real hard to gauge the number of inspections and the type of permits that's coming in and the cost associated with that that's why there's that's why there's a difference and it's always it's always difficult to try to to budget and figure that out um zoning inspections uh were also up uh there was five by this time last year and we're at 86 honestly I think that nobody was doing zoning inspections last year until I got here so and I had found some stuff that was out there when I went out to do the inspections for work fences that weren't on people's property generators that weren't put in the right place and were in violation of uh setbacks and items like that as well as sheds that were too close to the property line or other the people's property so zoning inspections are the way to fix that so that there's no complaints down the road um as far as what we've done with the Department um we've cleaned it up when I say cleaned it up we physically have cleaned it up we have cleared out a lot of the storage cabinets and stuff that was just old things that just were sitting around uh we've moved recently move the um customer counter out to the front hallway so it opens up the space within it the area as well for aisles the aisles were very narrow so it was difficult in trying to to move around in there um I've set up my office in the the previous it was I guess it was a planning office originally and that's where I am doing my stuff in there we're also um we relocated the subcodes desk and we've gotten uh sdl tablets for some folks so they can do the inspections and log them in in the field see what's going on out there um we are looking at opening up into an unused office space for a plan review area because part of the problem is um when we're doing plan review we're kind of like in a fishbowl so everybody can see us there and we're always being grabbed to help out here or to answer this question or to you know fi this issue and every time we sto from doing the plan review you have to go back to it you have to backtrack to figure out where you were and start over again so we're going to we're trying to get a room set up for the plane review subcode officials are really looking forward to that um anything else that I have missed as far as the the office uh I mean you talked about the the hiring of Staff which is great in terms of uh inspections and plan review exp expedited um I mean we've updated the forms as well some forms we've got the zoning forms now fillable and digital online yep um trying to think what else uh we've done a uh we we've created a bunch of or I brought with me a bunch of checklist uh prior approval checklist we use for the construction permit so we don't miss anything on the front and that also duplicates on the back side CU whatever you need in the front as a prior approv then you got to get that signed off at the end as well so some of the stuff had been missing and cosos and tcos were being issued without having engineering fees paid um and we were Los weren't able to collect on those because the people got their certificate so you know what where do we how do we get that you know where's our hold um we've cleaned up a lot of tcos so we've try to get those closed out we're purging old files as we go out to do inspections we are taking older ones with us so that we can do those and how we found out about those is things were filed by uh year permit year instead of by block and lot there's a state mandate to file everything by block and lot so that you can actually see what's going on with a specific piece of property and when I came on we did that we refiled everything by block and law and that's how we're getting a lot of things closed out so that's probably another reason why we have an uptick in inspections is because we're starting to close out those overall as as Jack mentioned the beginning there was definitely timing of now plan review is caught up and uh getting even more caught up and you know even though we have certain timelines uh you know we will meet those timelines but we want to exceed those timelines certainly you know it's not the the intention of the department is never to you got 10 days wait the full 10 days it's to get it done as quickly as you can but it's just there's been such a a a burden of work in that department so we've also um put in place a uh a quick review type thing things that are simple and easy you know they'll get I don't won't say shove to the front but they'll get put in a SE another place that hey if I have time maybe I can do five of those and knock five of them out in a really quick period partial releases you've been doing partial releases a lot of a big Improvement rather than having somebody wait until the full review Jack and' been trying to do partial releases as much as possible now that's a catch 22 you know i' I've been dealing with some complaints on that because people say oh well you know he didn't mention these things that needed to be done well that's the partial release you know you either wait until the whole thing is done and then you'll get it all at once or you can get a partial release and so on the one hand that can be frustrating for some people is that they're they feel like they're just being given things or the target is moving but that's not really what's happening it's just Jack's trying to give their contractors the ability to get started as quickly as possible um with the understanding that there's going to have to be some adjustments made uh but partial at least I think is is overall a welcome uh welcome approach so people aren't waiting the full time um for for all the information and data that needs to be brought back um if if we could just summarize um in terms of things because you know as was mentioned uh there were complaints from residents about kind of that moving the goalpost type thing so um my understanding in terms of some of the things to help address the timeliness of getting things done you know certainly getting the uh the front office staff uh if you will uh you know better equipping them to to review completion of the submission so that we're not waiting you know if you're touching it 10 days later or something that at that point you're coming so um getting the the front office staff up to speed in that area adding the building inspectors the one that was added and then this second position should help alleviate some of that pressure was there anything else in terms of summarizing how we're addressing you know that timeliness of getting things done no it's really the um getting me to be able to stay in the office more instead of having to go out I was doing anywhere between 15 and 20 inspections a day without the part-time inspectors inspector being around so now on Tuesday and Thursday uh I'm in the office they they know not to schedule unless it's an absolute necessity schedule me for an inspection on those days so if we get the second inspector then I'll have four days that I'll be able to stay in the office and keep the stuff not only up up to date as far as plan review but getting it done relatively quickly so that's the goal and you're right absolutely with the front staff is making sure that there is a completeness review and that that's known what what's needed for the different applications and they're they're really they're really good they're they're spot on with with the stuff um the the one uh lady is relatively new it's her first time in a government position she just recently received her ta certification so this is her first job as a technical assistant type person uh the other uh staff has I believe seven years of experience um from another town so she has some background behind her but she doesn't know anything about zoning so that's a learning curve for her as far as completeness reviews with that I think a piece of the uh the education piece on the front end is also helpful with what you're developing on your flow street so that people understand that uh this then comes and that comes and and that gives them the ability to understand if it's not complete it cannot necessarily proceed I think that's actually a a pretty good uh soft piece yeah um that becomes quite helpful so I would encourage completion of that availability ility of that so for the zoning application you now have implemented a checklist to make sure that the application is complete before the the office accepts it so that's one of the items that we're going to do we haven't done no we don't have that yet but what we do have the checklist I had mentioned is the prior approval checklist for a construction permit okay that there's items within the construction code that have to be done before I can actually release they could have every plan review done it could be done for a month but if they haven't paid a cola fee that prevent prevents me as a construction official from releasing that permit so that's the checklist because things were being missed and things weren't being collected uh properly both on the front and on the back side there's a lot of paperwork on the backside uh test reports that have to get submitted that just aren't in the file and if the state comes in to do an audit I'm the one that now has to answer that question so so there's um quite a bit of data here so I appreciate your reports um it it is however difficult for me to appreciate the size of the backlog by looking at these reports and I I think for in the interest of time uh I won't ask the question but what more important is do you feel going forward with the addition of some of the best practices stuff that you talk about checklist and so on so forth and the addition of an inspector and potentially a second one down the road is that correct correct are do you have reasonable confidence one you can freeze this backlog that is to say it's not going to it's not going to get aggravated further uh and two do you believe you can shrink this backlog to where the you know the department is operating in accordance with best practices within 10 days and all corre all the I do um just by the fact that I was able to get today literally today I caught the UCC plane review up so it's within the time UCC you said are you're up the snuff now yep right yeah the zoning is the next zoning is yeah that's used to be the one that that's the one that's got the shortest time frame to 10 days it's 10 business days yeah okay so um and like I said what I'm having difficulty with that and the and mayor eal spot on with you know if I don't get to it till the 10th day and then it's looked at and it's found to be incomplete you know that that's an issue and I recognize that issue and I'm working on that issue with the staff because they're not familiar with zoning so I'm trying to get them up to speed with that a checklist is going to help that yes and that's why the uh I mentioned the the three different things and I actually quizzed them on that today the three different items that kicks in the ren for lock grading that prohibits me from issuing a zoning permit so being able to identify those up front with the folks and explain to them and listen we can take the zoning application but no it's going to get deemed incomplete because you need you now need this that's where the floats are so it seems that you had mentioned that um just going on this backlog issue you mentioned about doing previous zoning inspections for previous sheds let's say that were too close to the lot line and things that maybe weren't closed out I I've heard from residents that um they've had um notes or calls about bathrooms maybe 10 years ago that weren't closed or a shed they've lost in a storm previously um that that are being inspected now and you know they date back more than 10 years how did you determine to prioritize that sort of that sort of stuff that's historical over you you had a backlog in front of you so we don't go out just to go out on something that's that's ay uh or something that's not scheduled so if we're there's a complaint that's issued for as an example for one property the research with that complaint is to see if there's any open permits that's part of the process so then we'll go out on that now if I'm in the area of doing an inspection and I have an open permit uh for that property or the property next door then I will stop there and explain to the folks that hey this is you have an open permit that hasn't been closed out can we close this out or if we can't here's my phone number here's the office phone number these are the inspections that you need please call us to schedule that um zoning we don't go out on the zoning the old zoning stuff uh we we'll go out on the ones that need to be closed out as a result of some other activity that's going on so a lot of times the old ones it's where um they're doing work on the property and then we find that there's an open permit whether it's zoning or construction and then while we're there we're doing that inspection at the same time so I'm not quite sure what people are are are you indicating people are saying we're just showing up without cause no no they're they're saying that they they maybe they did have an open permit for a shed or a bathroom um or but that those things were historical and then maybe they even lost the shed 10 years ago Super S standing and so it just seems to me that I mean if this was a business and I was trying to burn off the backlog of of current work I I probably wouldn't pursue the stuff in the closet you know I I would have prioritized what's in front of me um but I I was just asking how you how you came up with that you also seem to say that U decks and fences um I'm sorry decks and generators you couldn't take the zoning application without storm order calculations no no no no it's the I can't take a uh construction permit for those without the zoning application having been approved part of the zoning process is to review the lot coverage and with the zoning ordinance uh calculations depending on which zone it's in and depending on the size of the lot so there's a lot of uh background research that goes into it because of some of the surveys that are being or not some but most of the surveys that are being provided don't have the lot area on it so we have to look up the lot area do the calculation then make a determination as to whether they what's going on with the property if they're trying to add this piece and I've actually found a couple homes that weren't compliant for whatever reason with their lot coverage they're already exceeding their lot coverage and it prohibited them from putting on the generator without going to the board simple as simple as a generator putting on brought up an issue where the generator triggers that yeah because it's it's adding impervious coverage to the to the the concrete p the 8 by10 compete P not even 6 by6 right yeah so but these what what's what I see tend to happen is here is folks are building uh to the maximum coverage that they can so when they rebuild or do stuff or put in a pool you know doing the elaborate patio or the outdoor barbecue with that it's it signed off of one today that's got the pool the patio um the barbecue the outdoor uh kitchen thing to a fireplace probably a third of their back of their yard is now taken up with all this work so they're maximizing their carage so when they want to do the next little thing it ends up either throwing them over or it it's it's really close so so uh you're saying that decks are included in our lot coverage calculation decks are not the actual uh surface of the deck isn't the stairs are um a patio is so some of the stuff that that um I've had go on is had a patio underneath and they put up a raise deck so it's not increasing the impervious coverage but I got to validate part of the zoning requirements uh for the land use law is you look at the property to see what's going on with the entire property for work that requires a zoning application because if it does have to go to the board for any reason the board if they have to Grant a variance is granting a variance for whatever is going on on the property so if there's something that's not compliant even if it's not being touched by the scope of work that the uh applicant wants to do it needs to be brought to the board's attention so they can have it addressed and or making a decision based on everything and are you doing this with sheds as well for coverage yeah have to it's perious coverage see you I mean you can understand somebody's uh frustration then in that if I want to get a shed that's under 100 square fee put onto my property um you would comply in every which way except for potentially lot coverage uh lot coverage require requires pretty specific calculations I mean you're talking about and and and then you're you're left with um it is that is something that is not historical to our community and I I think that that those kind of regulations uh you could you could add uh a shed let's say of a certain size but not another because of um storm because of a lock coverage um I you know it's incredibly frustrating to a to a homeowner I that's I mean so are we saying I'm that's state law that's a municipal land use law that's not me no well are you I understand the frustration no but are you saying then that um if you have an AC replaced that and the the condenser size goes up then the pad gets larger that you have to you would have to do a lock coverage calculation the the the owners don't do the lock coverage I I don't know if I probably didn't make that clear but I do the lock coverage calculations based on the information that I have and the Google Maps and the uh uh moris County GIS so I have that information available to me and then I do the calculation and I figure out the coverage based on the satellite photos and the mapping that we have access to so I'm not the the owners aren't doing that and part of the problem is that they don't know the process they're not hiring somebody to to actually guide them that's familiar with the process and then they're finding out that this it's an arduous process and again that's that's the way the law is written I don't have a choice in that and historically uh Greg was issuing Mr imping was issuing zoning permit for sheds what he was doing with figuring out loot coverage I don't know but shed permits were being issued in the past it's not something new oh I know being issued yeah sure but the but the the I mean you just said that um you're using the homeowners are not doing it so you're using aerial photos to determine whether something is impervious or not no I'm doing using the aerial photographs uh of the Google map mapping system to actually get the square footage of the lock of the lot coverage the house patio anything that's impervious okay so if they if so like at Cornerstone right they have all their sidewalks are considered um impervious impervious cover imp that mean no they're perious impervious coverage uh that went through the planning board so how would you make a determination from Google Maps whether the whether coverage on their property was perious or impervious why would a sidewalk be imper or perious that's a great question doc go Mr choy's at the he's at the planning there there is a DI Minimus square footage on Cornerstone uh where impervious materials are laid for the concrete okay so that is specific to that that development that development okay so that I I would surise I would surmise that would be a situation where they have they have a they have a resolution and they would respond correct so it isn't is in compliance with their approved plans so that's that's a situation where the the applicant can certainly has the opportunity then say we refute that and here's the sort of that's correct factual and part of the zoning application that we redid was checking off certain things on there certifying uh like is there a is there a previous it's one of the requirements in Miss land use law is is there a previous resolution on file regarding this and they have to submit that so there's a check off on the application that if they have a resolution on file they need to submit that so that I can review such as an example of that I would be able to review that a resolution on file if you simply have um perious um concrete or per some sort of a perview why would that matter I'm sorry what's the question why would it matter why would you need a resolution on file to if you were using some type of a porous material um that you know I mean for instance you don't have to he's saying if it exists it exists so in other words if you want you wouldn't need to so so what what prevents not following your question yeah so what prevents a resident from simply saying to you well um my my interlocking pavers here are at spaced at a certain distance of a quarter of an inch and therefore those are perious not impious we have in the in the zoning ordinance there's a definition of impervious versus perious and that's what I go by right and people have applied at the zoning board um you know or or have have applied to use a perious material in their backyards and we told them at at the board so there would be a resolution so there would be a resolution then yeah but no but that but they they've been denied the use of that where where it is not per it is not impervious coverage it's not impervious for like a deck I'm confused but a deck is excluded in the ordinance exactly so what I'm saying what I'm saying it seems to me that there is a and perhaps I'm wrong it seems to me that I've been told that uh applicants are are don't have to fill out any board but there's a background calculation being done on the impervious coverage on their law it's there is and it's a requirement when they submit for creating more coverage on the law right right so what I'm trying to get to what I'm trying to get to is um that calculation was being done with aerial photos correct right so then I'm I'm trying to get where I'm trying to get to then is how is that done that's what I'm trying to understand and that's I'm I've asked a series of questions about that um and how do you make determinations about one material over another from an aerial photo that's what I'm trying to i' Simply map out what's what's on the ground based on the information that I have in front of me the previous zoning application actually had the owners uh required to fill out the inform or whoever was submitting the applicant fill out the information they weren't doing that they weren't doing it right it was actually a worst case scenario because they weren't giving us the information that we needed so uh through discussions with other folks and with with Mr shahadi we determine that we're going to do it on our end so that it helps to move the process along a little faster yeah we think it's a process Improvement because somebody says commune says hey I'm only covering 100 square feet he still has the valid it so why am I going to have somebody one try and provide information that they may not have or have accurately uh and that has to be validated anyways and calculated Again by the construction official so certainly construction zoning officer can come up with that calculation if someone wants to dispute it because they disagree with it they certainly can do that however we're we're eliminating a burden on them and a point where potentially could delay the process because now they get kicked back because they either didn't put that information on there they didn't understand what information is needed or they put the wrong information yeah just for a minute I'd like to separate um uh feedback coming from feedback coming from application well feedback from an applicant who's not happy with the outcome versus your process irrespective of the outcome right so I I guess the question I'd like to pose you Mr Dan is the the manner in which you determine lack coverage right okay would you denet the best practices that is to say do other you know yeah construction officials uh go about making that calculation or that estimate or that number in a similar fashion my research has has determined that people use the mapping systems not maybe not the one I'm using but there's a mapping system that they look at the aial photograph and then measure out and get the square footage up based on that photograph that aial footage and and there is a process by which an applicant has the opportunity to challenge that's correct that calculation with whatever factual EV they can provide for example if they've they've got and folks have done that impervious cover impervious materials which fall under the uh perious versus impervious definitions correct to be able to have that opportunity to have that calculation turf turf would be you know to your point Turf would be a a good example of is it impervious is it per you can't tell that from a from a photograph you can't tell that from an aerial but Turf material is is synthetic it's plastic and unless it is installed as per the manufacturer to make it pervious it's going to be deemed imperious so they would have to submit in that example they would have to submit to us the the installation documentation and validate that the surface of the soil underneath is as per the manufacturer that it's installed properly or they're planning to install it properly if it's you know to to do actually put it in U that's an example of you wouldn't be able to tell from the photograph the aerial it looks like grass so we wouldn't we wouldn't use that as a count but it in fact it may be so so might there be situations where despite having the imagery available and and being able to come up calculation there may be based on your visual inspection uh lack clarity as to whether or not something's prising p in would you perhaps go to the site I would to visually inspect correct I've done that I've also looked at the street photos that are available to get a kind of a familiarity with what the site looks like I I do a lot of research and that's part of the reason why things taking long is because of the research that's that is going into making sure that the applications are being the permits are being issued properly and rightfully um if there's a question as to what's going on I'll call the folks I'll email the folks emails are critical our sdl system uses um an email system uh for communication purposes if I approve or disapprove something it automatically blasts out an email to them so that they're getting they're getting it in real time when I'm doing the review so but if there's a question I'll contact them uh or their applicant uh whoever it is maybe the designer contractor or I'll go s uh can I ask a quick question because I know we got a lot to cover on our agenda and we need to wrap this up but I just want to you've been talking a lot about um Municipal land use law where you have no you know you're basically just uh implementing what the state law is telling you to implement if there's anything because I don't want to go into it now but if there's anything from a local perspective ordinances uh that we have in place that are either ambiguous or uh particularly onerous for residents I would appreciate if you can you know provide recommendations around that if there are areas that we can make you know still make sure things are safe but make but help our residents uh to to make things less complicated so any recommendations you have in that area would be appreciated that's one of the items on the agenda to discuss with the township engineer is revisions to the zoning orders not only for that but to one of the examples is it only allows an accessory structure of 150 square fet m that's crazy because they can have buildings a shed is 200 square fet without having to have a construction permit but I can't approve it because the zoning ordinance says that it's 150 Max is allowed so that's a change in the zoning or that we need to make to make it easier for the folks I agree with mayor ew I think you know the tree permit is another classic example of yeah that needs that needs help providing you know having an alterntive R for a homeowner wants to cut down a dead tree versus clearing by developer for example right so um I think there are certainly opportunity there to streamline and make it more user friendly for for Lay folks residents I agree surrounding communities also offer offer tree applications to the clerk that for that automatically come back and for like the first three trees on your property you go the cler office thing takes that entirely out of that okay thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you you're welcome thank you thanks shot take Clarity and speed on to the remaining items here show hand for five minute recess if anyone or shall we just continue all right let's continue going to need it in an hour um all right every so um from the time under Administration uh there's a resolution that's envisioned uh for the next meeting two resolutions one's for the authorization of an execution of easement that's required by the county it's a historical easement um for the it's essentially conservation easement for the red brick Schoolhouse um and the other one is a resolution of support for a grant uh for the fire department uh we already won that Grant we applied for that Grant uh I'm proud to announce that it was a $155,000 grant through the state for uh for CH count fire Department uh but they are now asking us for a grant a resolution whereas before didn't come up um so that will be on the next agenda um discussion action uh just want to touch on uh there was an email in there uh just want to touch on this now we don't need to get into the details on it we can putt this for another meeting but I think we need to have a an ordinance in our code that touches on rules and policies for all of our parks and Fields because we don't have that currently only have one that touches the skate park which is uh nonexistent and the tennis courts but nothing else um I've gotten requests uh from people to use metal detectors and dig up some of our fields to can we you know can people drink in the in the Parks and there's some things that are in certain parts of our ordinances but there isn't a conclusive one comprehensive list um on on what is allowed in our parks and Fields uh I've included examples from other municipalities that would be followed uh to to those uh sort of you know extent uh nothing too crazy um but if there's any feedback on things that you would like to include or exclude from what those are please let me know um and I will try and have something drafted with our attorney a draft or ordinance for the next Workshop meeting um before we actually consider it for vote but please give me your feedback on that if you do the the biggest issue with parks and Fields um first of all we there was an email that we had uh you had sent to the rec committee and I had responded to that and I had no reply you receive to that email I did receive that email yeah yeah so why wasn't it included in this packet or and why wasn't there a reply or a meeting in that do you want me to pull up that email sure Deputy Mayor mayor is chair of the committee do you want me to get into this you tend to have a lot of unproductive tangents but I'm happy to uh address that one and and the purpose of this would be I don't know what the purpose of going into this is but sure well because the most important park rules and policies would be regarding um turning those assets you know in uh to their greatest use and our parks and Fields have great use and we have no um that I'm aware of we have no official rental rules and policies right and we other communities do have those and I did indicate that I would be doing that however I am dealing with this issue first and foremost because this is the most pressing issue your email to me did not include any questions I asked you for feedback on one thing and just like everything else I mentioned one thing you go off on something else so therefore I come to the township committee because I did not get clear instruction or answer to you with feedback on the rules and policies that I suggested okay so so that's that's why didn't get a response and you didn't ask a question so I go back to again what's on the agenda here was included here feed rules and policies the policies that I prioritize are ones that benefit the township the most in my estimation that's asset Max maximization and I would like to use see we say pay attention there's nothing precluding the people from using all those fields though right now I know you like to have a back and forth argument where you run on top of me well you you do so Mr chair can we go back to the topic parks and Fields rules and policies to me um I would H I would like to have a policy for our parks and Fields that first of all um makes them all 100% available you know during certain hours and number two that uh includes asset Ma maximization so we should have policies and rules regarding the rental and use of those facilities I'm sure everyone here has seen um you know a small group or a trainer or something using our Fields um for that purpose and other communities say okay go ahead and do that including the county they say go ahead and use our field it's not being used otherwise or it's not otherwise allocated please go ahead and do that but we here's the policies and rules we have so when you ask me about what are the most important policies and rules for our fields and Parks um you know certainly like hey don't damage the park I'm sure that might be covered in some some other things you some other way and maybe we could make a blank blanket statement about that I'm not against it but but if I was going to pay attention and to pay pay attention we say it that way because it's costly if we're going to go through the costly Endeavor of focusing on something I want to focus on something that has maximization for our residents and for the taxpayers and so I would like to focus on rules and policies that maximize those assets and so that's why I'm talking about a reservation system or some sort of rental uh system if we're going to pay attention to this that's the part of it I like to pay attention to the most okay we policy that allows for that because people are doing it what you're suggesting is generating more revenue is what you're say Cole what it is you want to generate more revenue and that's fine if that's what you want to do and and put it to its highest and best use I I'm not sure okay I think at this point yeah so that that is part and parcel to the overall discussion for the policies and rules absolutely so and at this time I don't think we're uh I don't think what's on the docket is to go into details of what is or is it going to be part of it that I think would be a discussion that would that certainly would falls under purview of the rec committee sub commmittee so that's something that that you and I can sort of sit down with uh he say I'd like to see a reservation system that's not an ordinance you know what I'm what I'm getting at is in terms of legislation which is what you guys do is legislate right is bring forward to you something to legislate reservation system is not right um so I didn't get any feedback on that nor request for you know information certainly if there's a way to codify or something that you'd like to see by way of legislation for reservation system but that would be his fees right we don't have and I mentioned that in my email is we don't have a fee system for all of those properties and that's certainly something that could get in place but I think before we start taking money from people we should probably maintain the properties that we have first and I think it's a rule many towns don't do that so yeah um and there are reasons for that but because we haven't turned anybody away from using our Fields really you know so at the end of the day it's not we're not not serving the public this way I I I think um certainly important that we get some specif specificity in terms of rules and policies um uh in our ordinances I I was certainly welcome the idea of looking at U uh monetizing potentially um there there is some history on that amongst the number of towns uh but C you know I think it merits exploration certainly and that that'll be done in subcommittee time but if there can be any feedback on rules and policies in the me yes please great um clerk has uh two ordinances and I'm sorry two resolutions concerning liquor licenses um any questions for him on that okay any questions for for him on the report right construction we talked on no a question on the the liqu licenses just um as I understand we still have one that's un auctioned right and then the one that that is Charlie Brown's they still have in the reserve yes so there there are two distribution licenses which are the two Liquor Stores um there's one active uh consumption license which is fair Mountain Country Club there's one inactive which is the former Charlie Browns and there's a the ordinance allows creation for a third um I wouldn't recommend we dabble with creating that until Charlie Browns manages to find a way to sell theirs because um considering how long they've been closed I would imagine if there was a buyer they would have sold it by now but um you hopefully hopefully at some point they'll either find a buyer or um with with recent changes in state law they're at their last renewal of that anyway mhm so I mean that'll cease to exist after the you with with the current uh the the upcoming renewal assuming that the committee allows it to be renewed yeah that will cease to exist after that renewal period unless if it manages to get sold and transferred within that period so if you know of any restaurants that uh want to have a liquor license but there hasn't exactly been much demand for that engineering is next we have three resolutions uh slated for consideration at the next meeting the first one is our annual Municipal Aid Grant application that one is um a road or possibly two roads if the numbers and the math works out U but the the information has been provided uh in the agenda packet that's the 2025 Municipal Grant application um resolution for a w of Road resurfacing contract um we are expecting that at that meeting because we will have adopted the capital ordinance not the bond ordinance the capital ordinance which allocates money for roads we will be able to certify those funds and make an award to the vendor on the county Co-Op for the paving of the roads that were listed in John's memo and then finally a change order for Colony tennis um that is a minor change order but that is um defects imperfections issues that we uncovered on inspe of the project in the spring based on things that happened over the winter unrelated to the contractor it was just the conditions of the Court um over the winter had deteriorated further than from when the contractor had first started so we asked the contractor to go out and just fix them while they were out there um on site so that's the three resolutions any questions on those okay and then uh there was included in your packet rep uh in addition to John's report a packet on the Water Pollution Control Center Water Pollution Control treatment plan um that is a report on capacity and uh infrastructure which is going to inform a future uh ordinance and after discussion of the finance committee on improvements to make to the Water Treatment Center we didn't include any capital for the WPC uh because I wanted this report to be finalized have you an opportunity to review it and ask and prioritize what we feel should be done at the WPC um you'll see the summary at the end the conclusions that John reached of what he feels should be addressed first and foremost and um we can discuss that further but if you would like any clarification or further detail from that report let me know so I can have John work on that before the next meeting so the report that was provided to us is the report or there's a supplementary no that's the report that's the report but if there's if there's more so the recommendations in that report are John's correct Goa Y and he worked with uh our plant manager on that but uh it's John's uh full report on that you remember months ago we had a a Professional Services proposal on all these things that you know uh were requested that John would do cost and value I said listen you know we're not going to be able to do 10 things in the next couple years we're not even going to be able to do 10 things in 10 years some of these are very big ticket items so do a full analysis make the recommendations of what are the ones that are most pressing in terms of increasing capacity but then what are the ones that are most critical in terms of just maintaining operations as they currently are uh because before we increase capacity we've got major issues with the headworks and um you know clarifiers and and um you know so that's what this report is intended to give you an idea of what is most pressing there um for Capital planning purposes and nothing in there was a surprise to you as it pertains to what we already have in not really I mean it was definitely informative but I don't think anything was necessarily surprising it is more a very thorough analysis I mean K and M and I we we did a tour of the plant and um you know there's a lot of issues that need to be addressed with the plant it's a very old plant some of the infrastructure there is from when it was first built and um it's work that at some point needs to be done um and there there's financing that we can apply for through the ibank uh that's the state infrastructure bank which would uh parts of it includes some principal forgiveness there's competitive interest rates on that and and repayment terms so we would use this report to inform our Capital planning for that great thank you so if you want clarification on anything for that let me know so I have John do that for the next Workshop meeting because the next Workshop meeting agenda permitting uh we would we would focus on that Finance um anything else on engineering I didn't get any questions in advance but okay Finance uh a lot of resolutions um two of them concern the audit um the audit was not a uh a surprising audit It's Not Unusual from what we've had in previous years the biggest thing in there is the segregation of Duties um but that is an issue of Staffing and so uh there's a sort of resolution concerning corrective action plan and then we've got number of resolutions which are chapter 159 those are what's known as budget amendments so anything that comes in after the budget in terms of Revenue uh for Grants so you get Revenue but you also have to book it as an appropriation so we got the local Recreation Improvement Grant I'm proud to say uh we have requested more than 67,000 I think we requested 83 84,000 we got 67,000 so that's for Mountain View we got recycling tonage Grant clean Grant more than we've gotten in in the past the fire department grant that I mentioned uh we do have two donations from the JC's kind uh donations from the JC's one for the environmental commission another one for the open space committee for the corn crib and then we got another environmental commission Grant through an for $1,500 so all these would be chapter9 resolutions to insert them into the budget any questions there all right uh police we talked about public work um G deals auction DPW is very diligent about offloading equipment and uh you know vehicles and inventory that we don't need um and that list I believe tentative list was on in your packet and a snowplow contract extension um that is some some background information was included there it's a bid that is a multi-year bid initial one awarded a few years ago we have the option to do annual renewals DPW supports that annual renewal um I believe this is the second to last year that we have this option and uh DW would like to execute this and this is to back up in case there's you know snow events that are above and beyond what they can do in a timely fashion helps them so has that on Deck so like to get that done before the winter season any questions there so far okay uh tax collector um typical estimated tax bill resolution uh authorizing that and that's not because of us we adopted our budget on time we did what we need to do but because tax bills require calculations and certifications by both let's say schools the library the county all of those need to be finalized in order to send out a final bill so until that's done it's authorized The Collector to send out an estimated tax bill and um and that's it great thank you Mr shot at this time I'd like to open up to uh hearing of citizens mran yes we do have one Mr Carr uh good evening this is steuart Carr from three Crestwood Drive in chadam Township New Jersey uh nothing on Oprah tonight although that will be coming up uh in the next couple of meetings sometime when I can get to it so I appreciate your uh uh cons consideration on that in the next couple of meetings sometime um quick question on the back and forth between Mr Shaha and uh Mr Lois and probably a little bit of Mr Choy in there uh on the highest and best use of fields Etc um offshoot to that where are we with our friends at Oak null and making sure that we're getting the highest and best use of our contractual Provisions in there to actually make use of those Fields again I don't know if that's a shahadi question Lois question Troy question combination but I know we've gone back and forth over the years and I really think we have not you know exploited that or really have not made use of that and in terms of again allocating our resources and having you know too much use in certain Fields Etc being able to use that and taking advantage of that I think should be a uh you know something on the list so I'd like to know whether we've been doing that whether teams have been asking about it if not we've been offering to get that in order that we can really again get some use out of those fields which I think is something that the township uh you know can and should be doing thank you um I was so I know the deputy mayor did uh do quite a bit of uh leg work on that and took the initiative to put me in touch with them and we have had the soccer club using that um so I mean that's just a nutshell if there's any more specifics that you'd like to know about um certainly can provide that but um is that W mayor is that would you say that's accurate that's it right yeah um so I have been in contact with um uh the head folks over at the soccer program uh they have informed me that uh utilization of that feeli has been uh quite good for the program uh the schools uh held up at their end of the bargain um I do believe that when I last spoke with uh one of the soccer heads uh they had already reached out to the school to renew uh the agreement for continued use of that particular field he did not expect any uh issues or complications with continuing that relationship so um I can certainly get definitive uh word uh post this meeting but I did have reasonable high confidence that that relationship was going to continue I think it was a positive one um and I think the school uh uh embraced it so that was good news and that is a fee per use um situation right so um and and so that that is a great example of highest and best use and it is also one that both parties put value on so it's a it's a fair exchange and Mr Carr has been pursuing this for many years and um I've heard many clubs talking about this and parents talking about this and it is the fee that you know obviously they'd rather use a fe a field that's available to them if possible um that that didn't have a fee although those are beautiful facilities so you know I would certainly support because of the enormous cost of even building Fields I would certainly support a using money from our Recreation trust fund which is funded by registrations um maybe even to support the clubs in their use of oakl just so that that becomes uh something that's consistent and habitual yeah ju just to clarify the fees associated with that I think are not for necessarily Revenue generating purpose for the schools to defay costs uh in accordance with I think their liability so corre a good chunk of the fee has to do with a uh requirement to have a security officer there for their insurance purposes um it's not necessarily as an additive Revenue source for them um in fact I think it's more of a you know favor that the school offers up to the school than to the township anything else correct but again it's to defay those costs not yeah it's itemized the bulk of it is security fees they have to some for security that's the bulk of the cost but nevertheless I think the merits exploration on on whether or not that could be something to um Implement here in the township uh for for Township fields yes Mr lanti anyone else uh we do question do not have any new raised perfect um and I do not see anyone uh here at the microphone so I'd like to close the uh hearing of citizens um and now I would like motion to adjourn do I have a second I will second that all right we Ur I I hi thanks everybody you are Jour thank thank you now I got a call yeah yeah he KN he going to give you the call on that one