##VIDEO ID:txICkMusuBM## everyone today is Tuesday August 27th and we are here to start the chelsford Conservation Commission meeting call this meeting to order my name is Carl Bishoff I'm the chair of the chel Conservation Commission we will get started here we will be following the published and posted agenda uh the meeting is both in person and on the zoom um so if the zoom isn't working we will still continue the meeting in person uh without the zoom so the meeting is also being broadcast and recorded by Chan Tel media and will be available on their website and on YouTube so first thing we have is we are open for any concerns from the citizens of the Town relative to conservation matters that are not on our agenda tonight um if anyone has anything and wants to come forward now's your time to make something visible to us make it known I don't think we have anyone okay so next up on our agenda here is um we have J Jason sudman um use of the cranberry bog reservation for a bicycle riding event and that's who's uh in the car uh on the zoom hello Jason why don't you uh David do you want to preface this at all um sure I can see so uh few weeks ago Jason sent me um a request to use cranberry bog a reservation for a bicycle riding event I think he said 50 to 60 um bicycle Riders I I think that was only the cranberry bog part of it was only one leg of a um of a larger uh route that uh went through carile and I'm not sure where else so um you know given given that you know 50 to 60 riders for Cranberry Bogs seem like you know a higher than average number um I I asked him to um uh appear before the Conservation Commission meeting to uh give a few more details um regarding the event he has since emailed me that that I guess the the event or at least the CR the cranberry bog reservation uh section of it is uh no longer um planned but so why don't you take it from there Jason yeah hello everybody um the mosquito sorry we're not hearing we we're losing you barely yeah barely yeah that that was a little better that's a little better a little better lot better I I will stand funny looking and um the mountain bike challenge been around for this will be the 13th year it started as memorial ride with them but our last um it was a way for these guys to connect person uh it turned into interesting Excellent Car Bas conquer um and local Riders we do a 50 miles of not bik through carile but there's a few areas that touch section JN the North we we would typically enter off fix F through the parking lot souber proper that m v um we've adjusted the uh the rout as it is um to confine it to car but I wanted to follow through with you guys as he a good neighbor to find out what the situations over your way the uh which be a longer longer discussion down but just to share that we're process in car Ste to set guidance for so to come down to 30,000 back to divide itself we uh we have a staggered start five to seven rending assembly very casualized so um Jason we are getting about every other word from you so what I think I'm hearing from you is that you're not looking to do this at the at with the current um event that you have coming up in chel corre and but you're looking for some guideline um guidance for future events and I think what I was hearing from you is that you're saying that it would be a staggered start this is not a race this is a ride and that the staggered meant that you wouldn't be having a bunch of riders all at once it would be kind of spread out over a period of time and it would be something like 30 40 50 Riders over a an hour maybe or something like that and so you're looking for just kind of guidance from us on on that and would there be parking um in the okay there's no parking anywhere near our because we don't have enough parking for this no no it's all actually at my house in carl center I own the other church right on okay we all park there and so so um in the interest of trying to move this forward let me ask the commission if you have concerns about this I think what I'm thinking is that if we just get notice of when this is happening whenever you're going to do a ride like this to let us know and especially to have um maybe have people on the ground at the site to make sure that at any major intersections on the site there's a few places to just make sure that there's no issues with like where you cross the dams for example um those are um tight um so having that kind of control I don't know if anybody has any other comments or thoughts Chris no I mean um yeah I think you're addressing concerns that I had uh you know so we're not dealing with parking because parking is really constrained out there at that site which is very short so that's good we don't have to worry about that it's not like 50 or 60 bikes are flying through all at the same time so we don't have that safety issue so that's good um we do get a lot of dogs out at that uh that area so just something to keep in mind there are a lot of dogs people like to take their dogs out some some go off leash uh but um yeah I think I'm I'm good hearing more details about like what we're talking about and then you you could work through our agent presumably right and kind of give him the details and I'd be comfortable what what I'll let me let me go through let me go through the the commission first Mark you were saying this isn't a race it's just a an event so it be reasonable speeds all the time through there that's fine I think Chris can uh covered everything okay John if K's fine with it I think ch should be fine the the only other thing I think would be uh the time of year I know at the cranberry bog Dam there are some turtle hatchlings and so in the in the summer months that's when that's most at risk into what September David through through September even into October maybe so especially those times would want to be really careful if you were going to go through there but once you get Beyond I don't know October 1st or even middle first week in October then it's then it's a lot less of an issue um those would be the the main the main issues I I think we have anything else you want to add Jason uh what I'll do for the benefit and send along our progress report you days um shows all the vks and support that we've got okay you you're going to send a a progress report I think is what I got out of what you just said okay and you'll send that to David yes and and you know whenever an event is scheduled like in post something on the commission's web page yeah because I know we've had a couple of situations I've had people ping me and say hey did you know about this bike ride yes I we did actually but it would be good if we if we were able to post that okay yeah all right fantastic thank you Jason thank you very much for reaching out to us appreciate it it's been a pleasure thanks all y thank you very much okay have a good evening everybody's good with that yeah okay did a great job I don't understand half of what he said I you did a great job J Carl interpreting it all for us thank you okay this is these Zoom things yeah all right uh now we go to our report from the uh plan Dave do you have anything more you wanted to add on that no no okay uh uh report from our planning board leaz and hello Chris good evening um so we haven't had a planning board meeting since early July uh so not much new to report um we do have a meeting tomorrow uh tomorrow will'll be reviewing the outdoor lighting bylaw proposal again uh reviewing the Board of Health scope of work for The Gap analysis from Lei um for the uh bylaws we'll continue a few hearings um including Hildreth and then we'll start looking at the implications of the accessory dwelling unit um laws that came down recently in Massachusetts so that's pretty much what our agenda is going to be tomorrow did you enjoy your summer it was a nice summer about the the meetings it's been a while yes it has yeah all right any uh any questions or for Chris no thanks all right all right good thanks thank you very much appreciate the update uh first hearing here we have a continued hearing from our last meeting on August 13th this is a notice of intent from the town of chord DPW regarding 1 and three Hugo Lane 101 12 and 14 State Street and Courtney Thompson is here representing the town hello to Courtney hi how's it going good what do we got um not much has changed since the last meeting um we are planning on replacing approximately 200 ft of undersized 10-in drainage pipe with 15inch pipe um the work will be performed by a mini excavator um we'll plan on entering the the work site through our easement at s's place and then in addition to that approximately uh in addition to that the other side of the pipe will not be replaced it will be lined by a contractor by a subcontractor um they will be lining that first segment of pipe from State Street and then that second segment of pipe between the two catch basins will be they will also enter the easement from uh s's place and go from the northern catch Basin down to the southern catch Basin um we're also on the very northern part of the project uh site we are also replacing approximately 55 ft of corrugated metal pipe with the same size plastic pipe so David do you have any uh anything to add uh so um since uh since the last meeting uh comments were received uh back from uh d uh said they wanted an engineering plan uh hence the plan you see before you they want they also wanted a few more details on on the uh the plan the restoration plan uh for the wetlands after the um uh work uh has been completed so that that has uh all been provided um I think the commission has enough information at this point to be able to close the hearing there is a d number there is a d number yes okay um those were the things that I remember being open from the last meeting and uh sounds like we're in good shape now just to be clear there were other questions from Neighbors about sort of neighboring adjacent part which we were kind of carving off and saying that's a very good legitimate concern but that's not part of this hearing and it just curious is there any has there been any discussion about that yeah so that area down behind Noble I believe it is right um is a known flood prone area it is part of a greater undertaking we're doing to try and better understand the wat set and flooding um so it is a known area that's prone to flooding this project will not be increasing or changing the water down there in any way okay so okay but it's on your radar it's on our radar yeah that's what I was hoping to hear okay yeah okay uh any further questions uh John do you have anything you want to ask no I think we should get this thing put to bed okay all right I'm all set Bill Good Mark yeah I'm good I'm good the uh I mean there was a lot of concerns of residents in the area res is nobody here tonight oh oh okay okay all right you open the flood Gat all right Chris I mean I guess we're not going to bed you know we heard from these folks last meeting and you know the concern then was we didn't want to do something to improve the situation one neighborhood that then would then have a adverse impact on another neighborhood so I guess what I'm hearing is that engineering you've taken a look at this and you're telling us basically that from an engineering perspective you're not going to do something in this neighborhood that's going to adversely make things worse for other people right that's what I'm hearing you say right yeah so the pipe that's being replaced and and the size is changing we're putting back in the size the pipe that was there I want to say about two years ago the correct size 15-inch pipe um it got repl placed somehow and got sized down um and so it's going back to the size that had previously always been there um the other pipe is simply being lined to in protect its Integrity um and then the natural slope it will just be a a natural slope to one of those catch basins that's there to prevent pooling in the general area and um then it will be receded with Wetland mix so it's not going to change the lower the amount of water going going to Noble drive or okay to okay and David um your your interaction with the DPW on this is confirming what she's saying yes yeah okay all right so I'm hearing uh our commission seems to be satisfied but I recognize that we have some some folks in the public that want to have some comments so let's open it up to comment from the public so if anybody uh from the neighborhood if you want to come up and uh give your name and uh address address name yeah name and address good evening hi Lin Havener 7 Noble Drive good evening Mr chairman and members of the board as a 35-year resident of noble Drive I am here once again on behalf of the residents who live in odd-numbered streets on my odd number addresses on my street who will be impacted by this project since your last meeting two weeks ago still none of us on Noble Drive have been informed of this project and none of us is aware of anyone from either this committee or the DPW coming out to check on the situation from our y our yards or talk to us about it it seems to me that we're in the same place as we were two weeks ago when this vote was continued again I wish to State my support for Hugo and State Street residents in their Endeavors to correct the water problems on their properties the proposed increase of pipe size from 10 to 15 in will allow more water to flow which indeed will clear Hugo and state which was the dpw's goal however the DPW solution to alleviate their water accumulation is merely moving water problems farther Downstream my land and at a minimum my neighbors living at numbers 3 5 7 and 9 Noble will continue to erode and water levels will most likely increase at a low Point behind number 17 Noble Drive where it feeds into a small smaller pipe between numbers three and number five Lord Road I am again asking that should this project move forward its scope needs to be broadened to include the restoration of noble Drive residents land I am asking for any help that the Conservation Commission can add to help us with the DPW in getting this moved forward thank you for your time thank you very much anyone else um so do we think uh I mean what I'm hearing there is that the uh the impact of this project their perception is that it will be impacting their land but we're being told uh I'm David I'm kind of putting you on the spot here a little bit um we're being told otherwise um yeah I think I think that's correct um Let me let me just bring up that area right now on um the uh on the gis so the the other thing is I remember we had an AB Butter's notice uh issue last time do we know that that got yeah I'm not I'm still not sure so you have the abutters list don't you um Courtney yeah the butters notice went out for the 300 foot butter Zone I believe there were I'm certain there were at least a couple Noble Drive addresses on that list I've received a stack of cards confirmations now um now everyone down Noble Drive definitely is not with not within the 3 the 300 but they're I thought I I believe a couple of them if I at the top end near State yeah this is what they're fixing right yeah um there's no so I'm I'm just I'm just going to bring up the the storm drain system here so Courtney maybe you can help us out between five and seven five and seven so that's that's three on the corner uh three I'm sorry so that's five that's five yeah um and that's seven so so the concern is is that the water the water from this project will be getting into this wet land you can see this this wet land and that will be impacting your properties is that is that the concern yes it already is I mean you can see I'm at number seven I have a pool and the fence behind the pool is already it's it's eroded in the 12 years we' put the pool in to the point where the fence is starting to fall backward so it looks like there are two potential sources of water one one is from this dra well maybe Courtney you can the water does flow back behind Noble drive but if you if you show the project if you can pull up where the project is right now the water is just slowing down here because or the pipe is too small at this stretch so the water is still entering the catch Basin here and going down it's just causing some flooding here um so increasing it will just return the flow that was there two years ago and we are aware that there is flooding issues behind Noble drive but this will not make them worse but the flooding but the water is flowing in this direction right it's still yeah uh and then and then it it flows in and then comes down this way yeah and then it does go back here oh okay um so so I think what you're saying Courtney is that it shouldn't be increasing it uh any really above the historical right but but I think maybe what you're saying is that historically it's it's been a problem I think even now it all the water still ends up down there and we do know that it can be a problem during rain events and that there's we do know it's an area FL prone to flooding so I guess I was thinking that most of the water was going out right there at the top going the other way no to the right that Sand's Place yeah uh right through that that Circle through there I thought it was that this was going to create more flow that way no and you're saying it's going to continue flowing down the other way it does flow down the other way well and and so so the two sources are that's one source right in that direction right yeah and then and then this is and then this is another source yes flowing flowing here and that's the outlet there the Outlet's down here so so Courtney just just remind us again so up so up until two years ago when the pipe was replaced it was a 10in diameter pipe it wasn't 15 it was a 15in oh it's 15 in it was oh I'm sorry it was placed with a 10 inch right which I don't know why that happened that shouldn't have happened but now you're putting putting the 15 inch back yeah why was the 15 inch taken out for the 10 I'm not sure it it was it was a judgment error I think I don't no but why would somebody even change it in the beginning well I I get was in pretty bad condition was yeah yeah I think it was it was a corrugated metal pipe so that's where they to begin but um it shouldn't have been downsized shouldn't have been downsized exactly um do you do you have any thoughts off the top of your head Courtney uh about um how to address these concerns um I'm not sure I mean it is a wetland area and it takes in water from a lot it takes in a lot of water um if you look look out it's many of those neighborhoods are feeding water into that Wetland area and then it flows across I believe um if you keep going down I believe then it flows across or maybe not um yeah I'm not sure what the next step are to try and alleviate uh this Wetland area that is taking a lot of water um but it is something that the DPW is aware of um if I may the can can you please come up to the microphone thank you ly Havener 7even Noble drive if I may the um water flow from Noble Drive between number five and number seven it's a it's a water runoff that's blocked it's been blocked for how many years about 16 about 16 years so the only water that's coming into my backyard is from State Street and then there is one Outlet that's coming from Freeman Road so where is it currently blocked can you right there right where you're so so it's not it's not coming out from that outlet or this has been blocked for 15 16 years so the only way that we're getting water down here is through the State Street and then this one run off from Freeman Road so our concern is that the goal of this is to get rid of the water here so that water is going to go away and that's great for my Hugo Road friends but that water's going to come down here and then it's going to get stuck at number 17 because if you looked at Lord Road it's it's got small pipe that feeds then that goes down to um the soccer fields and then to mil pond that's the direction but there's not the only real source is coming from here and then that one from there okay well it's not a it's not our job to engineer this but we don't want to leave them with we don't want to leave them with a problem right right we don't want to fix a problem here we can't and put more water to them yeah we it's not right and I'm not so I guess I'd feel better if I had some comfort that these guys um out on Hugo we're going to have some improvement on this situation but it just seems to me common sense and I'm not a civil engineer but if you're you know if you're going from a 10-inch pipe back up to a 15inch pipe I think the water is going to flow through quicker and more rapidly I just think it could be worse water flows downhill it's going towards Noble Drive yeah this is what we got to yeah so it's not going to help got to address their problem fixing this up here is fine yeah I thought we were just going to put this to sleep fix this but somehow I thought it was coming out of s's place the last time that's what I was thinking that's the last time they were talking it was coming down sans's place okay I got the old the old map here so yes L Haven or seven noble drive if you if we had a topograph topographical map you would see that the low point in the neighborhood is like in this in this area so there's a high road bishop and behind that is a apartment development that's in North hria so they clearcut that so a lot of the roots that used to be able to absorb the water is gone so Bishop a lot of water flows down to sans's place which is low so Sans part of Hugo and part of state are the low area there that then flows into State Street and it continues to get lower and the concern for us is that at the end of State Street we're just moving the problem from Hugo to state so I'm I'm tending to think I'd like to see some more engineering um look broader broader look here David um um well I think I I I think that that frankly part of the problem here is the increased rainfall that we' have we've had over the few the last few years um that I mean this what what the intent of this project really only is to bring it back to what historically at least evidently what has historically been uh the drainage Network um in this area um now uh that probably probably originally dates back you know more than 60 years um and and and you know with with climate change at least in my opinion that you know over the past 10 15 years it's gotten wetter so you know maybe maybe the original design for the drainage Network in this particular area just is no longer adequate but but I I I think it probably would take a pretty extensive um analysis you know like a watershed analysis to um you know understand how it's changed and and to come up with a um a solution I I think that's probably outside the scope of this notice of intent but I mean I think C certainly the DPW is hearing that you know this is you know a problem and you know there's serious concerns here and maybe they can move it up in their priority list you know yeah I I agree with uh what David was saying um um and I know it seems like increase in the pipe is going to cause a much faster flow down to Noble but all the water that's all the water there currently still ends up in Noble um but I do understand the severity of What the residents at Noble Drive are dealing with and uh you know if we do have I understand us trying to look into making a plan to alleviate that I mean the commission can certainly put a condition in the order of conditions to to require you know more engineering analysis for for that Downstream area at Noble you know to look to look at the contributions from um from Hugo to look at the contributions from Sans Freeman uh and yeah and and and to look at you know the surface I mean there is there is a catch Basin on the surface there so the the commission could certainly put that um in in in the order to um to to begin doing that analysis I know that stone water has done a number or is working some Watershed studies in different parts of town is this even on your list um I'd have to check um I do know that it is listed as a flood prone area so I'd have I'd have to see if it was on one of the bigger waterers studies but um yeah I mean I know you've been getting a lot of these similar uh yeah we've been getting different parts of town a lot of rain so it's got a lot of rain yeah yeah that's simple well and the town a lot of the houses were built in areas that were on the edge 50 years ago and when you add more water yeah um you know yeah it's it's not a good situation so the pipe that that was there was a 15 in and it was deteriorated that's why replace it with a 10in by Era you so the 15 hasn't work correctly in the long time you weren't getting 15 Ines of water flow out of that um I think that it was we were or we still are systematically replacing corrugated metal pipe through town I can't speak on how bad the condition was when we replaced it but um my point being though you're you're increasing the volume by 100 over 100% from 10 in to a 15inch pipe just in the top section the the the section that runs out of the low Point um is already a 15 in the section that runs from Sands to but the water on the top hot is going to go through the new 15-inch pipe but it's not going to have the ability to dissipate as it does with a 10-in pipe and a deteriorated 15inch pipe from prior yeah and they just going to get worse for them Downstream a little bit so okay yeah and it's not my thing I shouldn't be talking about this I just want no I understand I yeah I understand that it's a problem down down in Noble as well I mean it should I think it should be addressed yeah I mean it shouldn't be a a tremendously difficult engineering calculation to just look at the you know the output here yeah you know is I got a question is Noble drive that end of it is that piped or is it open cut uh I don't know um what do you know what is that symbol yeah once once you get past the outfall it looks like it's an open Wetland area it's open until L and then there's a pipe there's a corrugated pipe at L okay and the pipe area is a problem and you're not aware about the pipe at Lord being a problem it's the end of it's the end of State Street number 17 State Street and then Lord is right there yeah and the pipe is is there so the it tends to back up at 17 State Street that's right at the corner to a pipe the corner of noble and State uh no I'm sorry Noble and Lord oh it's blocked I don't know they should 17 17 Noble got it okay okay way down at the bottom end okay okay so that's that's the concern of the neighbors is that any water that's now at Hugo will work its way down and then you're just going to have that pooling at the end of State you you just moved it like 10 houses up okay uh we have another uh resident wants to speak yes sir thank you Alan hway one Hugo Lane Mr chairman members of the commission um let me update on some of the facts the 15-in pipe was replaced I'm retired I could hear the trucks all the time in the backyard it was like swiss cheese the members of the storm Water Division told me and originally this problem happened because they tried to put a new pipe with an old pipe and it got worse so David brought up an interesting point when they try to put everything back together they've destroyed some of the swes that were there so it now and when it flowed it didn't really flow towards the storm drain and you're right we've had climate change and rain and rain and rain that's why we probably never calling it we've had more rain than we've ever seen in our life so I think if you're going to address this you've got to address our problem and Noble drive otherwise everybody's going to be coming back all the time say yeah you fixed one thing and look what you did to our area so maybe it does need more engineering but definitely they need to see the Contour of the drainage it's not just replacing the p pipes how does this really flow is it flowing where it should be and again I it blows my mind why 15in pipes were replaced with 10 weren't they on some drawing somewhere yeah in in in the town and I never got a notice and I'm one of the ones that had the pool and this is what a month later but at least it's brought to everybody's attention so I want to thank you for your time in trouble and let's see if we can make this a collaborative effort fix Noble fix Hugo don't just fix our problem create another problem of uh Lynn and Tim and anyone else and Paul richta my neighbor number three we have the biggest pool of water and we didn't know whether to go to the town to rename our Street Hugo Lake instead of Hugo Lane but it didn't get deep enough so we didn't we didn't pursue that okay thank you very much well and you you can see that that the uh on the plan that the Swale has been added to the plan says original Swale to be restored you know to the the extent that practicable um all right so what do we what are we thinking I'd like to make a motion Mr chairman that we continue this hearing to our next meeting allow our agent a chance to take a look at possibly some special conditions as far as you know as he discussed about having some engine more engineering that could address all the problems out there um so he could he could work that issue so we want again we don't want to like do something you know good for one neighborhood but then have another you know adverse impact so and then also we give the the DPW engineering department a chance to go back and take a you know a further look from an engineering perspective and I know personally for me I just like to have a lot more comfort that you know if if we approve this thing that you know these other guys are going to get some action soon you know they're not going to be just like left out there with nothing happening so anyway I move to continue to our next meeting which would be um September 10 I think comment from David um so I I think that you know again the the additional analysis that that would have to be done just to understand um you know the effect of of this um this project I mean I'm I'm not sure how involved that is you you have I mean again you you you you'd have to identify all of the inputs you you uh or the locations of all of the inputs you you you'd have to do it for you know diff different size storms um I I I I'm not sure that that's something that's possible to do in only two weeks I mean I think it's probably a you know maybe even a couple month process that might be the right answer though to me um because I I kind of I'm with Chris uh Cur joh is there a drainage ditch in Noble that can be taken and cleaned out um maybe um I so I live a half mile away from the place I have not walked up there and looked but and and and I haven't if it's open cut can they come in and clear that out so water can flow yes so that has been done I we've lived there for 35 years that has been done at least twice I think three times but what's happened is every time the DPW comes in and we greatly appreciate that the gpw comes in and cleans it out for us but they always Scoop from the noble Drive side and they plop it onto the bank of the Freeman roadside because what's happened know you must live on the wrong side of I live on the wrong side of Creek right I know and I think what's happened is because the other side has been allowed to grow taller trees and brush and stuff so it's brush and stuff just easier to clear every time we Willows over there let's not solve the problem here cuz we're not we're not going to solve the problem here but yes that to answer your question yes that is a possibility just say I think what I'm hearing though is that the the other abutters are willing to wait is that is that fair to say you're willing to wait until the the other concerns um yeah are are addressed so let me ask Mark uh you you you were getting ready to second the motion um but do you have any other thoughts I agree withr 100% okay I think it should you don't want to do something and find out what you did to that point is wrong and it's going to be you have to go back and do something yeah you might as well do the whole area at least do it engineering wise and then you can say I'll do this part and we get funding we'll do the next part but you know it's in the pipeline yeah literally good good one I know that part of the pipe replacement we are hoping to do during dry weather so pushing it off might I mean I can't speak on the DPW schedule or the weather patterns that we're going to have but there's a chance that pushing it off might push it off for a while is is a a risk but but I think I hear the are willing to wait I'd like to at least get two weeks to yeah get some more DPW oversight into this and feedback I think at least two weeks to to Chris's motion so I heard a Bill do you have anything you want to no I agree with you I I I I couldn't approve it just for replacing the pipe without looking at the whole picture so why don't we do that Chris made the motion I think I heard Mark second did the motion and so the idea is that we're the motion again Chris I'll let you rest I move to continue this uh hearing until our next meeting September 10th to allow at the engineering department to do some further research and investigation on how to minimize impacts on the you know all you know all the streets here there looking at you know Yugo Lane State Street as well as the uh the folks out here at um all right thanks and I'm certainly happy to work with the DBW on identifying the the analyses that need to be done not they don't need my help but all right yeah motion from Chris second from Mark to continue all in favor I I okay thank you appreciate it thank you thank you Courtney and thank you very much to the residents for your input um really appreciate it okay um I want to put it the bed wasn't going to work yeah yeah nope it's it's never never easy next one is a notice of intent this is a this is a new notice um so this is notice of intent Jennifer Costa and Sarah Hundley at 122 Boston Road Moren Herald is uh representing the applicant from Norse environmental hello Morin actually we have to read a notice yeah we're good um get the notice up and we have our crack uh Vice chair to to read the notice legal notice pursuing to the provisions of the Massachusetts Wetlands protection act Mass General chapter 131 section 40 and the chood wetlands bylaw chapter 187 the CH Conservation Commission will conduct a public hearing here at the town offices on Tuesday August 27th 2024 to consider the notice of attent filed by Property Owners owners Jennifer Costa and Sarah Hundley for proposed work within Riverfront area and 100t buffer zone to bordering vegetated wetlands and Inland Bank at 122 Boston Road further identified as assessor map 94 block 368 Lot 21 the project entails demolition followed by reconstruction in a slightly larger footprint with Second Story of an existing Garage in Breezeway installation of utilities paper Pat step drain and storm water management structures braiding and Landscaping Mr chair thank you Chris uh why don't you to tell us about this project thank you very much Mr chairman may I please bring in the plan sure yep uh hold on MAR I think you should you should be able to share but let me double check that okay okay go ahead perfect thank you okay so what we're proposing to do is to raise this existing Breezeway as well as the garage and essentially reconstruct it the Breezeway is proposed to be 2 feet further back uh this section here and the garage is proposed to be 2T or 2.5 ft expanded in this direction here um we have a perennial stream which is putam Brook we have the BBW which is shown as this a series so as you can see the entire lot is essentially within the 200 foot Riverfront area um most of the expansion for the driveway will be on existing impervious area in addition to that we'd like to construct a paer patio that's majority of it is is greater than 50 ft from the Wetland itself the 50 Foot is shown in this bluish purplish color here um to improve the existing conditions we are providing rooftop infiltration in an area of lawn behind the house itself we are proposing um a small little Basin here because essentially when you walk up the driveway there's a step down and this area just cuddles with water naturally we have a retaining wall located here so what we'd like to do is incorporate this drain system and Outlet it over in this direction um when David and I walk the site uh we looked to see if we needed to cut any trees I don't think that will be necessary but essentially any disturbance within this area will be restored with some native planting so we're proposing three native plantings um puam Brook has an Associated 100-year flood plane and bordering land subject to flooding we're not proposing any work within that area um we are requesting a waiver from your setbacks um So currently the existing dwelling Breezeway and garage are located within the 50 Foot no build again that's this purple color um so we are requesting a waiver from that the existing garage and Breezeway is located within the 30 foot uh no impervious area and that's this golden color that you see here um and we are requesting a waiver from that um the closest point is this 19.5 ft and we are maintaining that so the new construction will not encroach any further than the existing conditions itself uh the house itself was built believe it or not in 1776 um and I provided that property card in the notice of intent and I can open it up to the commission with any questions or concerns okay thank you very much David do you have some commentary just a of uh quick comments so um actually the a waiver is not required for expansion of the footprint where where where you see this up here proposed two foot expansion um because because the the uh the structure was built before the bylaw um it it it it can be um added on to which means expanded um you know uh with the with without a waiver um really the only under the bylaw the only kind of waiver that might be required is is a little bit of the p IO uh within 50 ft but but I think I think with with with regard to that issue and with regard to the riverfront area regulations um I think this is easily justifiable because it's an improvement um that proposing to uh handle the the roof uh runoff with a with a subsurface uh infiltrator I believe isn't that correct Meen yes at the rear of the dwelling so so I I I think that's really efficient justification for I mean this is really a DI Minimus impact anyway but but you know but especially with with the um the Improvement to the uh the the the roof drainage I think the commission can approve this not a problem okay all right thanks John comments I'm good with Dave okay I know the piece of property it's I I think you're good Dave yeah okay thank you good job bill I agree uh I uh yeah the wave is it's an older house it doesn't re it's exempt from the wavers you got an 8ot difference in elevation from where this addition is down to the Wetland right am I correct there four elevations on that property you're up a lot higher than the Wetland correct yes so is are we are you putting Frost walls are you is there a full Sellar in in either one in the Breezeway section I know the garage will be on slab but right I believe it'll be frost walls Frost walls for the yes okay um so you're going to take out what's there put this new Breezeway a new garage in um the only thing I would say was youve just got scraw wles maybe You' need need one of those uh orange fences up there just cuz when you demolish that addition in the garage just to keep stuff from blowing down into the Wetland area other than that I'm fine other than that I'm fine with this no problem okay thanks Bill Mark uh you're going to have an Excavating or a machine and they're doing the site work correct yes sir do you have a spoil a spoil spot for uh soils I mean I don't see anything there we don't show one on the plan um there is a driveway bump out located right here we could possibly put it here or on the front lawn that's fine for different ideas I'm I'm not going to tell you where to put it just make sure it's has the the sock around it okay and uh you know as far away from the wetlands as possible that's all and still be able to use it I'm not trying to say put it across the lot you still got a back cement trucks in there so you you need a little room right okay that's that's all just just uh there's no drains the garage floor uh the basement no that's it okay thanks Mark Chris yeah I just want to point out again as uh echoing David um when you look at our bylaw section 187-a extension or structural change of a building existing being honored before October 15th 1990 shall be exempt from the provisions of section 1875 so I mean I absolutely agree with what David said so I'm good with this okay good yeah and I think you when I think about this patio I mean that's perious material uphill I think uphill of the driveway so that that's not even it's a very peculiar house it's a it's if you look at the lot yeah yeah okay so yeah I'm I'm with I'm with you so okay that's what it is uh this is a uh public meeting um I will ask if there's any comment from the public anybody from the public that wants to uh have a comment on this pro project I don't see anybody moving so um take a motion to close the hearing I move that we close this hearing Mr chairman motion from Chris we have a second second second from Bill motion uh all all in favor I I okay meeting the hearing is closed I move that we issue our standard order of conditions chairman anything special David um the um I I the concern that Mark mentioned um that that actually is a standard order okay um what I what and and the way the way that's generally worded is is to say that that has that it has to be you know a certain distance away from the wetlands you know I'll I'll think a little bit about the exact figure to put in there I don't I don't know whether it's 50 ft or 75 ft or it's it's the whole buffer zone um you know I think uh you know I'll think about that a little bit more I I just like seeing something on the plan well we can we that can certainly be done yeah um I can I can work with Moren uh and the engineer on that um not a problem David can we just add a one of those orange plastic the cheap fence just to keep the debris from glowing into the Wetland it's all downhill yeah we we can do that and you know um and and maybe and maybe hey bailes instead of straw Waddles might be a better protection with silt fence cuz yeah that is a steeply slope I think that's the main concern in this case Okay slippery slope conditions noted yeah those conditions noted hey bills uh we've got a special notation as to Mark's concern the agent's going to work out so so moveed motion from Chris do I have a second second second from Bill any further discussion all in favor I I None opposed uh motion passes um thank you very much for the discussion presentation nice job good luck on the project and I know Youk have a good night talking with David um to move forward thanks thank you Mar thank you okay next uh on our agenda we have a continued from July 9th uh notice of intent from property possible this is for 10 Hildreth Street uh and we have uh hello Brian we have Brian joining us here representing the applicant um I believe there have been revised plans have come in um so uh David do you want to set this up or let Brian talk first or what how do you want to um I I I assume the commission has had a chance to uh review the cover letter and uh plans that uh I forwarded to you that I received from Brian um you know I I'll just I'll just say quickly that um you know just look looking here um the cover letter cover letter that um was submitted um I I think uh from the commission's perspective I think you know certainly one of the most if not the mo the most important point is that the limit of work has been moved outside the honor buff zone so I'll let Brian take it from there okay all right thank you uh good evening for the record Brian good with hanok Associates so uh I intend to be brief uh this evening uh David uh summarized pretty pretty well I know we had been before you several weeks ago at this point with a revised exhibit plan showing lot for having a little bit of yard area still within that 100 foot buffer at the conclusion of the last hearing we say we we uh explained we would take a hard look at that lot as well as the outfall for the roadway drainage to see if we can remove that entirely outside of the 100 foot buffer and we we've done that on the revised plan so uh Lot 4 no longer proposes work within the 100 foot buffer and the outfall for Street drainage has been moved um and angled away from the 100 foot buffer as well um so I think that we've addressed the commission's concerns uh with respect to those items the only other kind of outstanding um item on our list is natural heritage um so we've been working with them we have not received a conditional no take letter it's still it's in process we're actually assigned a new reviewer um due to an extended leave of absence of our previous reviewer so we're bringing him up to speed and we anticipate uh receiving that letter in the coming weeks um so that's the update I have for you for natural heritage I'm David we can't close the hearing until that natural heritage that's correct but uh otherwise would say that the plan is something the commission can and should approved you know all all of the changes the commission requested have been made it's outside and now it's outside of our 100 foot yeah okay any questions from the commission uh Chris do you want to start us off do you have anything you no I mean I it's uh the update is pretty clear where we stand at this point okay Mark anything it's outside of our jurisdiction anything we wanted a request on this um no I got nothing so I'm fine okay I got to agree with everybody all it is a uh open meeting uh I will look and entertain any comments from the public if there's anybody wants to talk uh we'll uh we're open to anyone who wants to come up good evening good evening Paul wood 16 Hill Street mine's more of a question I know um I don't have the plan in front of me but that lot four quite a bit of the Lots in the 100 foot buffer zone um and I know they talked about putting up a post and rail fence saying this is like I don't know protected area my question is I buy the property three deer down the road I take that fence down I start making lawn what happens um well um you know that's that's that's why um that's one of the reasons why this project will still get in order of conditions okay because that will allow to put a condition the commission to put a condition in that says that you know that fence or something has to stay there forever you know that that that will be a what's called a Perpetual condition um that that uh that the buffer Own Line be permanently marked in some way uh you know you know split RI split rail fences can deteriorate that's that's why you know the the the commission has um you know conditions that say well you know it can be Boulders or something else but that something has to be there forever and that the area um on the Wetland side of it has to say permanently undisturbed and that's for the whole I know the fence goes quieter distance type thing or whatever it's going to end up being um and I know they talked at one point that land being lot X or something like that maral X yes they any is that still under discussion with how that's going to be dealt with um I gather I gather it's still being discussed internally all I mean there's there's no proposals to do anything with it thank you anyone else okay um does it make sense to continue for two weeks UHS two I move then Mr chairman that we continue to our uh end of September meeting which is September 24th second motion from Chris second from Bill all in favor I I okay motion passes thank you very much appreciate it Brian thank you this is our final plan uh it's final for today they still plan they still have to go to the planning board oh they still have to go through plan board planning board tomorrow night right oh I thought it was through plan aboid Noe no no oh so this is not our final we'll see good luck okay thank you okay that concludes the regulatory part of our meeting we will now go into General discussions continual business and Land Management first topic here is the chum strategic plan just to note that we do have a strategic plan committee Peter is our representative on that committee um he's working on that um he's not here tonight but um just a couple of notes the Strategic plan will guide the town's operations over the next 5 years and once completed align the town's budget and resources with strategic priorities and objectives Barry Dunn is the consultant working with the committee on this they there are surveys that are out there or a survey and there are opportunities for input um I have not done anything to formalize anything from a conservation input on this if anybody has any thoughts or ideas I'm open for ideas I'm sure Peter does I'm sure Peter does and I'm sure he's putting it in there so um yeah I and and there is an event a kickoff event a community kickoff event in a few weeks it's Wednesday September 18th at 5:30 at the Chumps Elks Lodge on Littleton Road 3 00 Littleton Road what time 5:30 might be there so um any other comments on the Strategic plan anybody nope I just want make sure we capture that uh update on the open space and wreck plan um that is moving along we had a meeting was that last week we had a meeting um and it's moving along we're making some good progress there um there there is an ADA site compliance visit on Friday at the cranberry bog and um there's a Conservation Commission member from the Northboro Conservation Commission um who's coming here to the cranberry bog um Peter said he would be able to be there he's there's some members of the um Commission of disabilities I think Phil from cost is going to be there I think Dave Sperry from the open space plan I'm hoping to be there but I've got something else going so I don't think I'm going to be there but I I'm not sure yet um the intent of this is is the Northboro this uh Vincent dnali I think his name is has offered his help because they as a commission and as a open space plan they went through this um Ada site compliance process and it's quite involved in a lot of work and so the Our Town Commission on disabilities reached out and found this guy through their Network and he was willing to come and talk about what they did which is very helpful instead of us like figuring out the details he can say hey this is what we did and um so that's that's a good start um Peter said he he would be there uh I texted with him and he said he'd be there so I'm glad we have at least one commission member going to be there um on Friday I'm going to try still but I I've got some other stuff going on so I don't know if anyone else wants to join Friday at 1 o'clock at um at the cranberry blog um you're you're welcome to join in our parking lot in the parking lot yeah I'm sure it'll start there it'll probably I don't think it would go beyond the dam but just the parking lot to the dam um they might go to another site as well I don't know I'm not sure but um I just got the email I think yesterday next one um Land Management uh the Russell Mill nou we did get that back um actually got it back few weeks ago uh there was an update that was in your email package um it looks pretty good to me I'm I'm good with signing off on it I just wanted to see if anybody had any issues or comments on is it similar to the other one yeah yeah we just kind of any subject of changes at all or honestly I don't remember anything substantial it was just kind of wording and um all it all looks pretty minor to me yeah yeah it was very very minor um they they identified some projects that they're working on but um it's just the idea is just really that we're just trying to refresh these and all right so that's it right there and the blue is the only changes we're looking at so blue blue and red blue and red yeah I mean I don't see anything yet right yeah all minor stuff yeah and they those guys do a great job St there yeah they they do relationships been working great yeah I think that was it so if you're if you guys are okay then I'll sign it with um the president of the I think it's the president I make a motion then that we authorize our chairman to sign theou with n for Russell Mill for Russell Mill second okay motion from Chris second from Bill all in favor I okay great thank you did they sh uh shingle a shed there or something they did uh I meant to say that they um uh they it turns out the shed is under the size for a building permit okay and um they had contractor that they worked with who um I don't want to say owed him owed them a favor or something but was willing to work with them I maybe they paid them maybe they paid the contractor but they got the work done in a morning I think it was and um came out good came out good yeah K did we still have an mou to do with cost cost and um the cybl U not BL soccer on Russell the Russell milfield yeah okay still have to work those um yep uh I don't have anything really new on kolis we talked about it last meeting I don't I don't I am I I just have one thing to say is I I I got the um I got the the survey plan um for the Wetland flagging back um yeah there are quite quite a few Wetland flags that uh they weren't able to find I don't I don't I don't think it's a huge issue I don't I don't see a compelling reason to to get them uhle at least not at this time we can interpolate or yeah okay yeah I think it's maybe maybe at some point in the future but not now okay thanks um update on Warren poll Dave did we did we send the CR to the capul law yeah uh no there there's uh something something has come up in the meantime with with with with a project um a proposed new sidewalk on uh parkerville Road that um that I really need to get an opinion from Town Council on uh see you know I thought that was a higher priority but I but I think next week I should be able to okay send him okay as the CR okay good thanks I'd like to get that and get it submitted on parus road we parkerville Parker par yeah there's a there's a proposed sidewalk and because see parus is already under the way it's what pus is already underway yes yes um just a reminder that um the call Town Meeting um uh that there will be a motion we voted on this to approve the transfer of the Warren Pole to the Conservation Commission along with the four other Parcels five of the parcel I think it was five whatever so that's that's on the town meeting agenda um for late October mid mid October whenever that is late October um and we don't have wetlands delation started at Warren pole yet either no do you get a chance to talk to Matt uh no okay I promise I will um I mentioned I think I mentioned last time that we had a meeting scheduled with Kate Benson from the de to meet there and she wasn't able to meet the day that we were going to meet a couple weeks ago she now has proposed uh September 11th I took the liberty of saying that works for us so I hope that works for you David and if that's two weeks from tomorrow I yeah I think so yeah so if any any body else wants to join us at 1:00 on Wednesday the 11th at Warren pole their expertise her expertise is Meadows and um protecting Meadows and um so we're just kind of trying to get her um State uh experience uh uh and help us make sure we're moving in the right direction with a long-term Meadow management plan there I don't know that we'll engage them on anything necessarily um it's not out of the question but um well we'll see what they're willing enable to do yeah we'll see um additionally a couple other things I wanted to add um I mentioned I met with I had a conversation with Christine uh Clancy from the DPW they have chainsaw training coming up in August I think it is uh October uh for a number of people in their uh organization and they're looking for um places in town where they can take down dead trees and leave them there they don't want to have to chip them up and remove them but they want to let each person be able to take a dead tree down uh with a chainsaw and so I said well I know Warren pole and cranberry bog both have a number of trees along the trails that maybe we wouldn't today be cutting them down if we didn't have to but I don't think it's a bad opportunity to um about crooked spr let them about crooked sprad maybe um right been there there's there's a couple of scary ones that I wouldn't want to do training on there who's going I know Warren pole I know there's I know a few a few that are are dead or dying there's a couple of Ash that are still a little bit of green on them but they're not they're not going to live what about the right reservation there was a couple on there yeah there's a few but they're um they're not right on the trail and oh it has to be on the I'd like to have them right on the trail but have them dropped off the trail and the idea is that they can just drop them and walk away and leave them and and then it it helps us with safety on the trail uh that we're not having like like the one I'm thinking of at Warren pul there's one in particular that's right on the main trail right at the right against the brook and it's a big tall dead tree and in fact La last week two three weeks ago I went out and a huge dead limb had fallen right on the trail and I'm like okay this this tree has to come down cuz that's going to that's that's going to take care of it I thought there was one on the entrance not too far from the parking onot the right we might be I I um that's where I I know that Christina when I talked to her she said they want to try to keep it to two SES okay so I think Warren pole you know which means honestly I think the cranberry bug if you walk from the parking lot to the to the dam you can find 20 trees that are dead or dying CU many of them have their feet in the water so they don't they don't all last that long if the water comes up you know they they just don't do that well some of them are pretty small so I don't that that would satisfy her need I'm going to meet with her Thursday at 1 at Warren pole and then at cranberry bog and we'll tag the ones that we agree make sense and if we any Wills out there any whats good no squirrels no will Willow in a tree I'm just looking to see if you guys if you guys are okay with this approach if there's any concern cranberry B might be a good spot because they can open the fire gate and drive down with equipment yeah might be easy it's just the access is really easy there I mean this is a class I'd like to support their sa it's safety it's training you know you know I like the idea of leaving trees up as long as we can until they really need to be taken down but this in this case I think it's a might be some that are real Hazard it's a good tradeoff to me so if you guys I just wanted to I'm not do birds aren't nesting yeah yeah this is a good time yeah birds not nesting so no objections we'll just okay okay and join me if you want on this is instruction for residents is that what I'm heing no for DPW crew employees oh DPW employees oh oh yeah for them to have handson with this somebody from the state is coming in to do this training now it may be DPW and like maybe it's with I don't I'm not sure but it's it's a town it's a town training it's not it's not open public yeah I never had any training before the first time I grabbed a chainsaw me NE okay I wouldn't recommend that though all right were you g to give an update on the right reservation walk uh did I skip over oh I did yeah um so on the right reservation um sorry I skipped over that so we've done started some of the work on um building the the uh walkways it's going well I I missed one of the work parties this morning because I was still up in Portland but um they've been um making a lot of progress on that um interestingly um we're still working to get the Board of Trustees to approve the uh the funding but um running into some snags there it'll it'll work out but um it's just an interesting uh interesting process to make that happen but we'll we'll get that where are you making those at Warren pole yep yeah in the in the pole barn in the open Barn yeah yeah and so actually it's not on the agenda but uh there there's another um uh issue with with right is um I I forget whether I mentioned it um back uh earlier in the year I'm not sure exactly was but I I think I did mention it that um there's there's a tree um that uh that has that has come down from right that's fallen on the property at 93 Green Valley Drive does that ring a bell with anybody oh that's U on the other side yes yes so um I I I had told them to um get uh get estimates um for uh remove removing the tree okay um which um they they got one um but it but it's really only for $1,000 I don't think it's necessary to to get another one um in fact Paul Paul has signed the um signed that so I think I think that's something else that will have to come out of the right reservation account we probably will have enough money for that with the approval because I think we're going to end up a bit under that number uh before the walkway extension yeah uh okay well I mean I think there's 50 Grand Plus in that in that account 51 52,000 so would that be something that that you could also whenever you're going to be meeting and talking about that you also put that on I will I I'll say I'll add I'll add that thousand in there yeah assuming everybody's okay with that I we need to vote on it but yeah okay okay good thanks for adding that okay um and um the only other thing was you and I talked about the Thanksgiving Forest pollinator Garden that one of the neighbors is interested in putting a pollinator Garden in right at the you know the entrance to Thanksgiving there's a grassy Park area uh there's a picnic table the boat launch to the River Meadow Brook um is Right Janet road entrance yep yeah the Janet road entrance and so one of the neighbors just was asking if she could put a native pollinator garden and I'm I'm like awesome I I need to conect with her and I'd like to meet her and talk to her about it but she has had some training in doing this she's worked with Jean Carla CPUs who um does this at Sunny Meadow and at some other sites um and I I said I can't imagine we wouldn't you know would' like to see the plan and see what what's going on but I said we'd bring it up and um I'm seeing nod so we'll we'll talk to her and see if she can come up with some kind of plan and sketch it's probably you know get it maybe marked out this year and maybe there's some work this year a prep for next year I I'm not sure if she would even do it I think you said she was traveling or something uh right now she is um but she seems very interested in this and and wanting to do it at other sites and has friends yes neighborhood friends very highly qualified friends yeah okay all right so that's it's great to hear that that would be great uh anything else agents report David anything any other I know you've been busy with a lot going on um I can I just um I can just give a quick update on 30 5 brick Hill Road I'm scheduled to meet with the owner um on Tuesday to fill out the RDA form um and so at least we can get that part of the uh enforcement order addressed um so okay good and then approval for Signature we have a couple of CFC well actually actually we it turns out we don't okay so uh the person found the order of conditions um and wasn't and so that doesn't need to be a signed and and um and and the printer wasn't working I wasn't able to print out the um the certificate of compliance so that'll have to be on for next time well um you know no vote is needed to do that okay so um I know in the past we've had you you know um Katie used to leave them out on the table and we come down and sign it and once four of us come down and sign it you're good to go if you want to try that okay then we can make it little faster I know I can I can swing by and okay I I'll send an email yeah just send an email and say hey it's out here on the table this is this is for a house s work oh yeah I'm just clearing with work I just sound like information on that excavation site on Route three the median strip there I know you sent out send out some info on that anything else coming down the pipeline or when that's going to happen or this was the oil spill you time yeah yeah so so um I got an email mail from Chief Ryan updating on that that I that I fed out yeah did so no I haven't gotten anything since then but I'll but I'll I'll look into it water district wasn't even notified about that w i i mean I notified them when I got it I just fast it on to them um well in the future I'll I'll definitely uh notify them as well okay if I hear anything Vivian how we doing on meeting minutes I'm ready to slip my throat but it's okay please not a laughing not over minutes okay over no not over don't do it over meeting minutes no okay all right we'll I'm sure we'll we'll get caught up there'll get there we'll get there okay uh anything else anybody have anything else you concerns okay good nice we're out of here I'll take a move to a Juran Mr chairman motion from Chris second from Mark all in favor I thank you Chums tele media good night good night everyone this