##VIDEO ID:BV7AjHyynlA## e e e yeah that kind of stuff so sounds good all right you that it's 6 I'm looking at that clock so I'm not sure which I should go by okay um but I would I'll have a CH e worst part is anything she replaces she replaces I know it was there you any and I'll keep mine for you I didn't have notes so much but uh I'm just afraid that if all like something information changed I'm in trouble hopefully he didn't write me notes hope you didn't write did you write any notes in yours I did not have any notes is there anything major that changed from what I read before no I think you got one additional piece which was on the tobacco summary and the affidavit toac just the first hearing part okay first hearing part backup material that's is is the you got that okay that's and then yep okay and then I have the um okay sounds good that should have been the only thing added to yours okay is this the new one okay yes my complete package this to hold this down think at this point set I think by all clock by all clock so 603 on my laptop yes uh all three members are are present uh therefore I'd like to call this U Board of Health uh meeting to not to order just yet but on August 12th I I guess I have to read the fact that we're doing this a live broadcast this is a hybrid meeting will be held in person and way VIA Zoom members of the public May attend the meeting in person or watch live on live chelsford tv.org or chelsford TV YouTube channel or comcast 6 Verizon channel7 members of the public only be granted Zoom excuse me Zoom access to accommodate participation in public input and public hearing portions of the agenda Zoom access will be denied for those wanting only to view the meeting the zoom will be shut down once no longer needed if participating in the meeting virtually please join the meeting 10 minutes early to to allow for screening so as I said I'd like to call this meeting to order all board members are present uh and I guess the first we're on as we're supposed to be that I would like to call the public input is there any public input through Zoom or inhouse okay to to basically talk about any other project other than the two hearings right now is there any public input for anything other than the two hearings that are coming up all right online anybody online that has anything just no Town Council okay all right so motion to close public input okay second all in favor I okay great all right so our first hearing tonight is 95 chelsford Street do you want me to yes go ahead do we have somebody here for 95 Chumps Street okay any want to come to the podium yes please so I'll start off and just kind of share what I have here and then you can um have the floor right so he's requested a hearing for a violation that he has received a tacco control um visit to his facility I'm going to read the summary uh Ron borad who's our tobacco control inspector uh is not able to be here this evening so he sent me the summary and I will s read that on August 1st 2024 at approximately 11:14 a.m. a male 20-year-old underage purchaser under my supervision entered the chump Mobile Mart 95 Chumps Street chump Mass attempting to purchase a package of Vape pods this visit known as a compliance check is performed as part of the town of chelwood cont contract with the Massachusetts Tobacco Control sensation program I had parked my car in the vicinity vicinity of the Chumps mobile bar and could see him enter the store the underage purchaser was not carrying anything into the store besides the cash I had provided to him and his cell phone he did not have an ID the underage purchaser was directed by me the underage purchaser entered the store with $40 in cash to make this purchase he asked the female clerk for julu bud the clerk then asked the underage purchaser for his ID when the underage purchaser indicated he did not have an ID the clerk asked for his birth date the underage purchaser replied that he was 20 years old in response the clerk asked for a birth date and that birthday confirmed that the underage purchaser was under the age of 21 the clerk proceeded to sell a jewel virgin Virginia tobacco package containing four Vape pods the underage purchaser gave the clerk $40 and received $8 $14 in charge for a total purchase price of$ 3186 he returned to the car which I drove him the clerk proceeded to sell jul Virginia tobacco package containing four Vape pods after entering the data uh concerning this compliance check into my phone's database application I drafted a correction Order Detailing the events that occurred within approximately 10 to 15 minutes after the sale I entered the store myself and met with the clerk explaining what had trans fired and handed her the correction order she had indicated during that discussion that she thought the legal age to purchase tobacco and vape products was 18 years of age and apologized for the mistake she asked if I could simply not issue the correction order but I indicated it was my responsibility to issue the order you'll see the order that was handed to him handed to her uh the employee and then also the written order that was written for Ron to them you also have the person that signed it is redacted the uh underage purchaser's name on there but the signed order and then a picture of what was actually purchased and then also our tobacco regulation in there so tonight we'll let him um kind of share and take the floor but just so that you know that the board's decision is either to uphold this violation or to remove the violation the fine amount is a State mandate amount so we cannot change the amount of the violation we can just you as a board can just choose to revoke the violation or uphold uh the violation fee with that we'll turn the floor to you um uh see the employee that I had there uh she's been there for like almost a week she just start working there for like a week and um obviously we given the instructions how could she handle these kind of situations of uh regarding the Vape or the cigarett or anything like that but unfortunately uh it's the first time and she couldn't really handle it that well and there's a language barrier there she could really uh communicate with the um with the customer himself uh she thought that she heard that he the date that he gave it to her that was over 21 she just got all confused with the with the whole situation um for The Vape itself as sexual but we didn't sell that much it's not like a huge uh sellers it's not anymore like what he used to before uh so the F itself it's it's it's um it's just too much uh versus the the sales or the I'm I'm not just justifying that but I'm saying it's it's a mistake from from the clerk um she couldn't handle the situation right but it happened so I'm asking from you guys just you could just remove that or I thought the beginning would be a warning but I didn't know that like a $1,000 fine like the Shish thing like they give you a warning at the beginning so um hopefully that that's what I could get from you guys yeah the violation finds themselves like I said a state set by the state I thought there' be like a warning first and then we'll go like you know like the cigarettes does but um uh that's that's not the case with the ecigarettes thing I guess the first question is do do you have a copy of the the rag tobacco rag yeah did you before I'm not talking about at this point in time yeah no you never had never had on electronic cigarettes at all and nothing that's the first time happening to me on no no no no I'm just saying is that as a proprietor of a place that sells certain products do you to get a perit license or whatever did you bother to get a copy of the regulations that exist on the oh tobacco products so you do have them I do yes absolutely okay all right okay do because I remember one thing that seemed to be a what I call a good little item to always have is that because of the 21 okay you always this kind of a cheat sheet where basically you don't to do the math in your head you sit there and say okay here's the dates okay and this is what would be if there were 21 kind of thing and therefore you don't have to do the math okay to sit there and say it's just oh there it is look at the and yeah do you have one of those absolutely yes yes you do yeah yeah okay do you have the the the uh the one next to the register it shows you the date and all that you know it moves automatically from the date to the next date but as I say she's been in only there for a week as a language barrier she could really she shouldn't I mean once he told her that there's no ID she shouldn't really sell her period right away but she she hasn't been in that situation she thought it would be okay only a week so yeah I could just a little what I'm asking yeah so the the actual permit holder responsibilities is that everybody is trained in the store on exactly what needs to happen right um how many you know this is just one person that happened to go in to to do that if she wasn't trained appropriately you know how many other scenarios could have happened in the week that she was working there no she has and and as I said there's not that much business on The Vape and a cigarettes like before though it's it's really dead so if he pay just a $5,000 versus I only I just looked at the numbers the last couple of month I only did sales like $200 just from on all June and July the whole two month just sales on ecigarettes and vape which is I'm not doing that much versus you know the find that that if it happen or accurate that would be $1,000 it's it's not really all what I'm asking just uh a break this time and hopefully that would happen again and I'm going to work on it that wouldn't happen again because if I'm there all the time which is I am that never happens but unfortunately she's there and she's only been there for a week and she hasn't not got the experience to you know to get the IDS because we don't really do that much of sales on ecigarettes and vape at all any from the other can I ask a question sure one of the problems we ran into when we Face these before yeah can people hear me now so one of the problems we faced in the past is that there's actually two two parts to our regulation and the first the second part is chumford and those are our numbers and our discretion I thought that the problem with the first part was that was the state that there was there wasn't a lot of latitude for us to change anything there in terms of the amounts or if we determined a violation occurred we can you know if we determine that a violation did not occur that's different correct and so that the problem is it doesn't give us a lot of latitude to play there am I wrong yeah that's correct there this the state doesn't give us latitude to change any of the violation fee amount it's just if the board chooses that there was not a violation that occurred then you can revoke it and take away the fee but if a violation occurred we if if something happens and this is something that we determine that it did not happen correct but if we determine that it did happen I thought the problem with this regulation is the first part the the M the state part we don't have discretion on that correct correct on this dollar amount we do not have a discretion on the amount of the of the ticket the ticket is what it is right the only thing that he would be here for a hearing is trying to say that it didn't occur or whatever it is that you feel the only way you can revoke it is if you feel that it did not occur it did not occur right that the problem with the regulation is is that the state part if it did occur we don't have discretion right if it didn't occur the sale didn't happen and there was a misunderstanding or something we can rule on that and so it kind of it ties our hand sound well it did happen I'm not saying that it didn't happen it did happen but there's as I say it's uh not experienced and believe that I have and and um um oh what I'm asking I don't know if you guys have the right to remove the the the um the the fine as is right now and if it did happen the next time we go from there and the problem is the way the state deals with that yeah is it says that um it's not the responsibility of the clerk it's whoever holds the permit and so that uh ultimately if an event occurred if an event didn't occur and we and so we can determine that it gives us the option to say that didn't happen right but if the event occurred this portion the Massachusetts the state portion says that the permit holder is responsible and we don't have discretion about changing the amount from a th000 to zero uh the only thing we can really rule is that this never occurred but but you guys have the the right to remove the the fine right speciic not not the state portion we we can we can rule that this never occurred oh yeah but if it occurred then the state says this is this part of our statute right is the state statute right and the state says if it occurred this is the amount we can't if we if we rule that this happened we can't change it from a th000 to zero then right um it says that it's $1,000 of the First Defense 2,000 and it's not just for The Vaping it's also for cigarettes and everything else so that um yeah and this the state statute part of it and this regulation was just updated October 4th 2021 in every facility in sheler that re that sells tobacco and vaping products received a copy right um of this and that was the change in that particular time was the state stature so David anything well there is in in the the code here there's no mention of warning letters or anything of that nature so that's not an option to us because I don't think that that's to us it's as Dr M stated it's like did it happen yes no or no or no and it appears to be a yes and we don't have the authority issue a warning letter as requested yeah I'm not I'm not denying that it didn't happen it did happen but I'm saying there's um uh some some elements that needs to be taken in in in consideration uh uh the sales of the product itself it's it's it's not that big I know it's it's it doesn't have to do anything with the fine or with the H or whatever happened but it's it's whatever that with the with the with the business itself off right now which is it's not it's not really that good and and if you pay the find $1,000 dollar it's it's you know it's it's uh uh it's not worth it that's what I'm trying to say you know yeah do you believe that it was because of the vaping that she made the mistake or because of the age because I what I'm saying is the issue is we don't know whether it would have been any different if they were buying cigarettes or some other product that's underneath no that's actually well that's what she told me afterwards she thought that the cigarettes is different than the Vape because she's not she wasn't getting exactly the the the the different between the Vape and electronic cigarettes and the cigarettes because the cigarettes it's is too many signs ID cigarettes and she has the the mentality before that cigarettes id id id but she never um it's something new yeah that she never worked on as much as as the cigarettes because cigarettes always id id id as I said we don't sell that much of Vape or the electronic that's why she didn't have that much experience of it for having customer sh an ID or trained on that because that never happened when she was working or training at that time well I mean the only I can go back to is the fact that as cigarettes sale of cigarettes morphed into vaping and other products and whatever which isn't you know that old you know kind of thing it's a newer product uh you hate to say it this way but the state particularly with the way they set heavy heavy fines for for for this scenario okay I mean they've they they've changed over the years dramatically the fines and whatever and particularly for the conversion to do with the vaping and whatever and they sort of I mean they're sort of backdooring the concept of if a particular product is a problem to you and you're not really it's not economically a great thing for you sometimes no one's forcing anybody to sell a particular absolutely product and whatever and I think backo they're kind of telling you that if it's not really a very profitable kind of thing that will not support the fact that a mistake can be made and and things are good for business then maybe it's a product that should have smaller again smaller facilities and whatever you know may choose not to do certain products because of the difficulties that it creates them for them but but no I I agree regretfully that I think our hands are tied that we don't have the real right to say that it didn't happen and therefore wave it so yeah that's the one decision and that to wave the fee and the way it's written is that it's nothing about the clerk it is whoever the permit holder is and that you know you would think that in other circumstances if they town of chord regulations we can like you know then reduce the fee even from like a th to zero or something but in this case if something happened and it's the responsibility of the permanent holder the state says it's $1,000 and we don't have discretion about the amount it's just our Jud we can judge did it happen did it not happen no it did happen I'm saying that didn't happen didn't happen so okay want to do public input yes is there any public input either here in the room or on Zoom or any other y I don't see any hands up in the zoom chat so there's none on there either Che okay all right so do we need to close that part of it the public make it uh motion to close public input okay the second second all in favor I I okay do I have a motion I guess is the the next issue that if we you know we sort of an agreement that we don't really have for first incident and such but I think that we're kind of okay this is then the realm of the state I think the motion is that it has to stand okay all right second second that okay all in favor I I okay so regretfully we can't all right thank you all right all right thank you for coming in appreciate it thanks again all right all right so our next hearing is on 10 hildr Street um you have lots of documents in here mhm the first part of these are documents that have been in previous hearings um that you have all reviewed if you go to the larger packet that you'll have the black part on this one these are the newer documents starts with the August 6th yep that one right there okay right okay all the rest has been before us already all the rest have been before us unless you want to discuss those yeah no no no that's fine just so if you have the one um David the one that's August 6th yeah I don't see with a bigger clipboard but yeah at the very top it should just say August 6 yes that's the one so these are the newer these are the newer documents yes that of come in okay all right all right so let me kind of read through have each of you read through yes any of these things okay so you don't need me I'll just kind of for the yeah the public share this um information this letter was sent to us by Christine and Paul Woods of 16 hildr Linda and Jeff Carney of 17 and 19 Plum Street and Marcy kodos at 24th hildr Street all right sorry August 6 2024 to the following departments and Boards of the town of chumford planning board Conservation Commission board health and water department we are writing as concerned chumped residents with a list of issues regarding the proposed project on ten hildr Street we address several questions and areas of concern that are pulled together to help streamline information between Town departments as a buts to the land of the pro proposed project we feel that phase one study did not sufficiently recognize the concerns of the neighbors no neighbors were interview during this process see assessing Brownfield sit's fact sheet sources one of the questions raised raed is the possibility of contamination with pasas as well as other unknown contaminants from Automotive fluids due to the multiple motor vehicles that have been abandoned and possibly leaking onto the property see photos on Source page in addition to photos neighbors have observe the following multiple Vehicles stored on many areas of the property bulldozers working backo John Deere tractor operation of HVAC business midnight mechanics SE Source page night mechanics trailer by the stream trailer also had occupants during a time as witnessed and heard by neighbors see the photos and the sources the trailer by the stream raises important questions neighbors report that while the trailer was inhabited voices were heard at all hours of the day and night the trailer was EV eventually witnessed being smashed To The Ground by construction equipment see photo and sources why was this trailer destroyed with remnants left on the ground what kind of activities took place and could there be any resid residual contaminants from the de demolition research shows that Vehicles contain pasas in several components of this structure as well as in the lubricants added to them C1 sources John deil who conducted the 21e study reported that there was no visible staining on the property this was not unexpected as the dirt has been moved around due to structures built on the property riding of dirt bikes removal of trees with st dump removal see aerial tree cover photos on Source page research has shown that pasas is highly mobile and can enter Water Supplies the health standards for pasas are measured in parts per trillion which indicates that it only takes small amount to create a hazard past is a huge risk for cancer as well as OT toxicity and negative health effects on human fitus given the delicate nature of the area that this proposed project is situated upon this is a concern that should not be overlooked see two sources property possible did not report to the state that there was a reportable concentration of pasas found at ten hildr Street this is a serious offense the town of Cher needs to follow up on this the state has a program that evaluates reportable concentrations to keep pasas out of our drinking water according to Lad environmental Inc who conducted the per review of The Phase 1 210 study property possible knew about this and failed to meet the deadline we as Chums residents implore the health department not to move forward with any approvals until the state follows up on this there is a real risk what in what is found as well as what might not have been found this development is very close to the town's well the applicants attorney Mr Hower states that the town has no Authority outside of the 400t Zone one area all of ten Hilder Street is under Zone 2 and is less than 700 ft from the well see water map on Source page the well could draw water from Zone to therefore we have to be careful with what is happening in that zone the town has no control over what products may be used by people residing in the proposed homes the products used by the households are riddled with pasas and can end up both in the septic systems as well as in the groundwater see two sources many car washing products and lawn fertilizers contain pasas is used by residents the runoff will flow toward the wells the proposed septic systems are close to Zone one with storm water issues there is a major concern of groundwater contamination the results from the peerreview study of the phase 1 21e reports that the groundwater from the subject property flows towards the town wells should also be noted that there is a storm waterer outlet pipe sitting in the natural heritage protected area there are still concerns that shared between Town residents as well as the Chumps water department about the proposed septic systems in the leeching fields being put under the driveways see leeching field locations and sources this an especially bad idea in an area near a town well as stated by the Massachusetts official website of the executive office of energy and environmental Affairs impervious areas such as driveways or parking lots restrict ear passing through the soils in addition the weight of the cars can compact the soil and may break distribution pipes lacks of oxygen prevents the degra deg gradient of the septic influent in the soil and compaction reduces flow making the system likely to clog and fail soil absorption systems which are placed under driveways are required by 310 CMR 15.24 R section 7 to be vented to the atmosphere additional standards apply to the systems components and where whereas automobile and other heavy equipment is anticipated in regard to lot two the Conservation Commission should not approve this lot unless 100% of the lot is outside of the 100 foot buffer zone to protect the possibility of a duplex being built at another time encroaching further in the buffer zone correction that's lot four yeah I said lot four lot four yeah okay the applicant still has not produced any approval notices from natural heritage despite being asked to do so on multiple occasions both the town residents and the Conservation Commission want and need evidence that natural heritage has been informed that the lot of ten Hilder street is an area that is a direct adjacent to vernal pools the critical 100t buffer zone of the vernal pools that is a minimum protection necessary projects in the 10 hildr Street area protected by natural heritage this area inh inhibits endangered species and ched bylaws call for protection and endangered species see natural heritage maps and sources thank you for taking the time to read this as well as to view the source page that has evidence to the backup what is written here we appreciate that each department does for the town and your interest in investment into this project again it's from Christine and Paul wood of 16 Hilder Street Linda and Jeff Carney 17 and 19 Plum Street and Marcy com to 24 Hilder Street and then you have hello board members please find two documents one is a letter the other is a source page with photos clickable links please use a source page in conjunction with the facts on the letter we appreciate your time in reviewing these documents every link has been printed and is in here for your review yeah yeah and I know all of you have reviewed those okay M all right so with that we have Larry lar environmental um Larry was um contracted with the uh chumpon Health Department uh to do a peer review at the um applicants expense but we'll have Larry if you could um share your results for the peer review that we do have in front of us sure happy too um at the outset I have to say that I'm I'm not feeling great tonight I'm having uh some pretty bad allergies so I'm going to try to be concise in what I say but I'm happy to answer any questions if it if it appears of gone too quickly over something so we reviewed the uh why I just pull the speaker thing towards you a little okay great much better thank you all right great um we reviewed the hydrogeologic report prepared by Northeast geoscience and the phase one environmental s site assessment prepared by Will Cox and Barton those were the in the file those were the two primary documents related to environmental issues and Northeast geoscience did put in three Wells did some sampling identified past contamination at the site um it appears that subsequently Willcox and Barton put in three more Wells uh that also showed P at the site um between the original Three well and the six well installations there are a couple of different estimates of groundwater flow which is typical that groundwater flow estimates would be evaluated as more data becomes available um and the reports do indicate that it's a reportable release of pasas exceeding 20 parts per trillion uh in uh a uh rcg W1 area under the mass D regulations um the there has been as of the time of of the letter on July 30 30th there had been no reporting of the P release to mass d as uh could be discerned from their online database um there are there is 120-day uh reporting period when you identify uh a release of this type there are other reporting periods for other types of releases but 120 days is applicable here and that's from uh parties knowledge now the reports properly indicate that property possible who the Consultants were working for is not an owner of the property and they're they're correct that property possible at this time has no um reporting requirement uh however the property owner does and there's a requirement that the data have been be shared with the property owner uh the all of the information has been part of the public record for some time uh so the the property owner should be aware and their reporting clock has run and been that 120 days for the property owner has been exceeded so we made um three recommendations uh one related to pasas and the other two related to some other conditions that had been observed on the property uh so we recommend that the Board of Health request documentation confirming the necessary reporting of the P 6 detections has been made to mass D and that detail of response actions moving forward be shared with the Board of Health as required under the DP regulations um there were also a um a couple of items in the the collective reports uh that where conclusions seem to have been made without um presenting this the associated substantiation that resulted in those conclusions um and that includes uh indicating that there was no release from the various Automotive activities because there was no staining uh there's no detail of how rigorous the evaluation was relative to that um and so primarily for based on the P issue we recommended that um the uh permit not be issued at this time pending receipt of the additional information so um okay did I make it through that coherently because I'm yes you know not at my best right now okay any are there any questions any questions from any of the board members so specifically will Cox and Barton uh on their findings they said that there was no did not appear to be associated with a property specific release condition the P that they found and it seems to be at odds with what you found could you expand on that not necessarily I I don't think that the source of the pasas is known and the reporting requirement exists regardless of what the source is and regardless of where whether that's on property or off property now the DP regulations allow for properties that have been impacted by a release that's from a uh groundwater flow Direction up gradient from them and that status that can be achieved is called Dow gradient property status and that if if they had sufficient information to claim DPS which I don't think they do yet but there are certain portions of the data that look like they would be supportive of that then uh all DP deadlines for response actions get are suspended uh under DPS but the key part relative to the town is that upgradient property owners are notified the town is notified and now there's more information and an opportunity to look Upstream if you will for whatever the source is but the statements that pasas is just ubiquitous or those are those are not correct statements I you know I'm the LSP for the largest past site in the Commonwealth and you know we we we have looked at that site in great depth and we'll look at it in a lot more depth over probably the coming decades and um so there is the potential for a conclusion once there is additional supportive data that the site is that the hildr property is is uh impacted by something else up gradient and that's fine the DP regulations allow for that what the DP regulations don't allow for is not reporting it all right all right David no no questions okay all right question huh all right no um thank you for now guessing you want to yeah if I may yes thank [Music] you um through the chair I'd like to ask a question or two of of Mr lard sure thank you uh is it Dr or M Mr I'm sorry I don't want to yes sir sir all right well you if you've earned a PhD or something I want to be polite and fair fair fair enough I I don't hold the PHD okay um prior to issuing the peer review report did you try to contact anybody at uh will Cox and Barton about the report no is there a reason why because the documents were filed or a public record my task was to documents sub you didn't think it would be worthwhile to get some background information about the reasons for their findings there wasn't part of the the scope it was approved by property possible property possible didn't agree on the scope the board set the scope no I I developed the scope and properly possible contracted with us to do the review and our our proposal included a listing of what we would be doing okay well my understanding is the board and you developed the scope and my client had to pay for it let's go forward from there um you indicated in your report that there was quote no information regarding the wells was included in the body of the report other than figure8 which identifies locations that's specifically relative to the MW 101 through MW 103 I hadn't got to the question yet so um my question was going to be did you review the boring logs and monitoring well completion reports that were included in the report I'm just going to I'm going to interrupt for one second you'll need to take turns on the microphone so that we can actually hear the I'll just I'm happy I can project a little bit and he's not feeling well so I have a little concern maybe perhaps there's another mic over there it's it's allergy sir all fine well okay so my question was did you look at the boring logs and monitoring well data that the the ones that were attached yes but that did not include all six WS my only point is it's the blanket statement is no information and that's just not that's just plain wrong well but that's not the statement may I sir please sure with all due respect and I the you presented to the board now this is my opportunity and I didn't interrupt you and I like the same courtesy of course all comments directed to the chair all comments to the chair and I think there was some confusion you were having a discussion with him at the moment I had a question and that's why I asked the board the chair to allow me to ask the question yes I didn't ask for responses I just asked for basic yes NOS fact is it to quote no information was regarding these uh Wells was included in the body of the report that's false and as you just heard the boring logs in monitoring well completion reports were in fact included in the ngi report now we'll go go to the next misstatement in the peer review it indicates that the results of sampling are required to be provided to the property owner within 30 days of receip of results our expert has identified that according to the mCP 401403 subsection 10 when environmental samples are taken at of property importantly in the course of Investigation of a release for which a notification to the department pursuant to the code of mass regulations has been made there hasn't been a notification to the department by anybody the town or the town of CHC water district nothing had no such notification was issued so that's creates two problems first of all my client its experts were doing a report of due diligence it was not doing an investigation of a release for which notification to the department would be made it was just doing its due diligence my client does not own the property he has no such obligation by law notification to the department regarding a release that the property has not been made and property possible is not required to do to notify the department until they own the propert property which is 120 days time period after they it acquires that property so the triggering point hasn't occurred that's part one part two the peer reviewer indicated that a reportable condition has become public record through the permit application and that chelsford the town and the property owner would have quote would have become knowledgeable of the results through that process when did P results become public record with the town can you tell me because I I don't know that there is such a report report it would be some type of notification by the town that it became public record do you have a public record that says that isn't what we're talking anything can be public that's what the anything is public record you you talking is public record I'm talking as public record when you're in on a setting like this and there's been plenty of settings now M Mr chairman um Alex weight from KP law here Town Council uh to answer council's question any documents or information submitted to the board or immediately public record once they're submitted to the town whether they're true or not absolutely right all right so we we can have conjecture as reported and that becomes a public record based on conjecture but and that hence becomes a public record because it's been submitted to a department is that is that correct well whether or not it's correct is a matter of your opinion the fact is once the document is submitted it's a public record period Well I don't know how you can attribute that to the owner of the property who hasn't been at any of these hearings the owner of the property is a potentially responsible party under the mCP and they therefore have a legal obligation to report a release as uh the peer reviewer stated if a release has in fact taken place which the document suggests which do which document you referring to council the documents that show the amount of pasas the amount of pasas is based upon what the town of chelon water Department's reports were which in could be the contributing factor here what created the problem to begin with right but the wells are on the owner's property I understand that but because leached over that's correct it it doesn't matter where they came from under 21e it's joint several and strict liabilities so if there's pasas on the property that we're speaking about this evening and it exceeds a reportable concentration which the reports indicate it does then there's a legal obligation to report that to mass D there not a legal obligation by my client as a prospective purchaser I didn't say that I said the owner of the property has a responsibility thank you Council um Lei indicates that the phase one that was considered uh was they said that U my clients Willl Cox and Barton um our engineer considered it the detection a quote D Minimus condition that's not true um Willcox and Barton specifically said they detected the elevated concentration of pasas they they made it known so the report is consistent with what actually took place in fact Will cson Barton said that the P pass is a recognized environmental condition and and that was actually agreed upon by your peer reviewer so the the two comments made by the peer reviewer are not Jing they don't stick together um there is a in the report prepared by the peer reviewer it indicates that the phase one environmental site assessments report indicated there was no evidence of release associated with improper Solid Waste storage will Cox and Barton didn't say any such thing it said quote there is no evidence of significant releases of oil Andor hazardous materials that was OB observed during the site inspection however the assessment was limited due to the volume of the material that's what was said in the report it's inconsistent again with what's been provided to you by your peer reviewer um the peer reviewer states that willockx and Barton did not adequately justify their conclusions that the on-site pest detections are not reportable bull Cox and Barton never stated that the onsite past detections were not reportable they've never said that and they further their report indicates that property possible is aware that the concentrations of pest exceed the mCP reportable concentrations and if p and if uh my client buys the property it has to notify Mass D within 120 days which it would intend to do so this peer review report that I read and that was assessed by others and working with my client shows all the indic of a conclusion that was reached before the report was actually done and then it was found to justify it to come to a conclusion that would be favorable to the people in the audience especially and to the board that's the impression that our expert has and our team working on this project for now almost a year has that report it was a conclusion already reached rather than just a real peer review and to show you that there was somewhat of I would say a lack of good faith cooperation between the professionals I don't know of many peer reviewers that would not have contacted another person professional in their field and said we have some disagreements or we don't understand why you're saying within a report we don't believe some of this is supportable please let us know why to have no communication but to issue the report please don't give me a face Richard I don't need your face you watch your I am not going to watch you're already giving me a fa a facial Distortion of concern I'm not interested in your dis discernment of what I'm saying I'm putting on the record what my client wants you don't have to agree with it you're not going to you concluded on this stuff a long time ago you're not going to vote in favor of anything we already know that so please give me the opportunity to State what my client's position is no more and no less no more from you yes no more for me I'm allowed to speak at a public hearing sir you speak you finish what you're saying yes I have that right and I wish you wouldn't contort like you just did again the record oh my what what's your you can't sit still and allow someone to speak really my only point was two professionals in the same field who should know each other if they had a disagreement about conclusions in a report or the format of the report or the data within the report they would have had a discussion and what we got is no discussion but a five-page report that is filled with inaccuracies or misinterpretations or differences of opinion but what we don't have is a conclusion that's de facto correct and what should have happened here and I still think should happen is that your peer-reviewer should have a discussion with our peer our reporter our will Cox and Barton have them meet and discuss and go through the report line by line correct so we get accurate information and that we all act on accurate information and not just conclusions reached by a pure reviewer who did not reach out that's all we're asking for I don't think that's asking for too much I'm asking for fairness thank you public input no we want to hear from Mr lard again yes yes any comment from Mr lard M yes sure there there was a lot to unpack there um the I'm going to use just one very clear example to indicate the statements just made are are inaccurate so it was the claim that the that the report from will Cox and Barton doesn't say that the paax is a DI Minimus condition but if you look at the executive summary the fourth paragraph of the executive summary the second sentence reads the degree to which P compounds are ubiquitous in the environment suggests their potential Presence at any property this finding is classified as a DI Minimus condition then secondly relative to reporting [Music] requirements the Massachusetts contingency plan in section 310 CMR 40.6 has a series of definitions and the definition for knowledge is either a actual knowledge or B knowledge a person acting in a reasonably prudent and intelligent manner would have but for the person's willful knowing or negligence avoidance of learning about the fact or facts in question this information is all part of the public record there have been a series of hearings there have been reports generated and even if you try to calculate the 120 days from the issuance of the ngi report on 22 February 2024 we're past 120 days well pasted so I I I don't my our report kind of will stand for itself and I don't feel it's really necessary appropriate to address the other statements that were made which I I find inaccurate but th that that one example I think you know stands okay other no okay public input for the records St your name Joel Luna 10 Carter Drive I'm an associate member of the planning board and I mentioned that because what I'm going to say is out of the purview as a member of the planning board which is that it's been my typical understanding that peerreview that a peer review for the board does not talk to the applicants engineer or whatever unless they have specific permission from the board and typically what happens is that is requested or a response is requested by the board before we get into a dialogue between peer reviews so I think that the process that you've gone through is what I would consider a typical process and uh I think that if the applicant wants to have his engineer talk to the LSP then I think you could certainly grant that and get that feedback but I would first if it were me I would ask for comment back from the original engineer and then review that and then consider whether further discussion is is warranted so that's the only comment I wanted to make thank you thank you yes hi um christe wood from 16 HRA Street um first of all I just wanted to say that personally I thought that the Lesser environmental um um Incorporated did a great job with the peer review um and especially in in regards to pointing out that like he had said that what the P should have been reported to the state and that should have been done in February um so what I feel is that um the delay and Reporting is just a tactic to let the clock run out and hope that the town gives them their permits before the state catches up with them um so the right thing for the town to do is to regulate that this property go through the State program um this reportable amount of pet does matter to the state and with this property being near the town Wells it will be a higher priority to the state and when it is reported it will become a superf fund site and that is um also known as the Massachusetts contingency plan um it would be incorrect however for the town to think that just going through that first step of notifying the state would be enough on its own um to believe that the depart D and that the LSPs are going to monitor and take care of everything um because firstly it's important for the town to understand that the D is short staffed they're not always able to closely watch these sites and they so they' therefore they rely on Independent LSPs to assist them um secondly the LSPs that they rely on may very well be the same LSPs that work for the applicant so these LSPs have a wide range of decision-making and then they report them to the state and there are many loopholes so it's super important that the town continues to utilize the peer reviewer LSP throughout this process even with the state investigating and it should be known that this is a long lengthy process and sometimes it can take several years third the state will most likely ask for more sampling and I raised the question are there more reportable I'm sorry are there reportable concentrations of posos in the soil on 10 at ten Hilder Street and are these are just piles of posos on that site um we have two other sites on town that have had similar issues one would be 200 270 Bara Road and one was brick Hil Road and the town allowed them to move along without as long as they didn't make the conditions worse but this site has special issues number one the septic to the close proximity to the water supply and the sensitive habitat concern we need the Board of Health you the Board of Health to manage our health risks no technicalities are worth overlooking serious potent potential health risks um to the I'm sorry there could be without overlooking the serious potential health risks to the people of chumford is it worth that risk and I urge you to do the right thing and continue doing the investigations through the state and with the peer review thank you thank you yes anybody else no no no problem I'm a com toys 24 Hilder Street um just would like to give you a couple more pictures of things that have um social media is great you can find lots of things on there and um some more pictures of the different we've talked about multiple times cars in the properties many cars in the properties being used on the properties um they're easy to find online you can find anything nowadays through people's sites so um we keep getting getting called that we're here we're just gruntled neighbors we're just making stuff up but we we don't come up to you if we can't back it up we don't come up to you with stuff if we don't have some type of proof or way of showing you that we we're this is what we're seeing this is what we've been witnessing for many years so if you don't mind thank you all right well start down the end then um anybody else out there we do have my hand I'm sorry now yes go ahead can you hear me yes excellent so my name's Michael a favor I am on behalf of property possible I'm the applicant for this so generally I would leave it to you know Council and my team to take care of all of these things but I just think I need to address the record here because the abuts are trying to paint us and this project in a very negative light uh it is never been Our intention to hide anything from the the state departments we've always went to each department to go and figure out exactly what we need to do what testing needs to be undertaken we've done that with the water department we've done that with planning board we've done that with all of the other departments I was told by our environment Mentalist that since I am not the owner of the property I do not have to file anything with mass D and that is as of right now factual I there's nothing that I need to do to report anything to Dees since I am no longer the property or I am no I am not the property owner the property owner has absolutely no knowledge and again yes we can dispute things back and forth about whether what's public knowledge or not he lives his life he works a full-time job he is not following these meetings he's never attended any of these meetings and he has never received any knowledge from me written or verbal that there's any contamination on site so for painting us as some bad guy where we're trying to hide information from the public something that our LSP would legally never allow to do they're not going to sit there and risk their license and get a bunch of fines for a small four lot subdivision that has a concentration of Pats in it so these things were always going to go through the correct departments the correct organizations the slight of hand here is finding that the owner of the property has not reported a condition he is unware of so that can be very quickly rectified by giving him a phone call sharing him a report and filing things correctly with the state so had we known that we can certainly take care of something along those but we were operating under the guidance that since I do not have any ownership of the property right now I am not required to report a condition the other thing I just want to kind of bring in is the hyperbole that's being spoken by all of the abutters about the unsafe of pasas and how this is just some toxic Brownfield site in a residential Community like it was being used as a salvage yard or a like you know a landfill the concentrations of Pats that were tested on the site were consistent with the concentration of past that are going through their faucets at their home right now so the coffee that they're making in the morning the water bottle that they're filling up right now is at a concentration that was found in the groundwater at our subject property so you're you're trying to trigger this and make this seem like it is some horrible toxic cancer uh emitting property when in fact the same concentrations are going into your drinking water now I would expect everyone in the abutters to be storing sheltered water with picket signs and forks knowing that they're you know being poisoned to death on a daily basis by the Shel water department but I don't see any of that stuff happening I just see Neighbors coming and complaining about a couple of new homes being put into their neighborhood which isn't I'm not something I'm unfamiliar with but I think we need to bring the rhetoric back to a normal basis and we need to stop feeding into the hyperbole of people over exaggerating what is actually happening the concentrations of past detected were minute of 20 parts per trillion I believe the highest wellth tested at 23 parts per trillion I mean this is an incredibly minute amount of overage and if you're testing a chart per trillion the variance of those tests could sway one way or the other so I think we just need to put everything into reality here there's been no um secret Planning by anyone on our side to try to sneak by Dees or sneak by the planning board we are doing everything as instructed and the concentrations in the levels of past considering what the town is dealing with is very insignificant and in addition to that if D decides that we need to go and do further investigation that is going to require us to start knocking on Guess Who doors the neighbors and then they're going to want us to start drilling on the neighbors lots and then the neighbors are going to come to find out that they've got peath in their groundwater now and then now they're going to have to be reportable condition so then now the entire neighborhood is going to end up being a reportable condition on mass Dees further you know putting stains on their property I mean this is how the process goes I'm doing F on multiple other projects in other states and this is exactly how it goes they're going to be getting a knock on the door and they're going to be requesting that we can go find an upgradient Source start drilling on their property and guess what you are going to find peath in the groundwater the entire city of chelsford is contaminated with peap and it's starting with the drinking water when you turn on your irrigation when you water your plants you are all contributing a source of contamination if the water that you're using is contaminated so I just want to bring that up front we are not trying to hide anything from anybody there was no deliberate um attempt to not report anything to Dees the owner has no written or verbal knowledge of any of this that has happened we can Rectify that if this is a a major issue but I think we need to bring the temperature down here on what we're talking about this has never been a registered brownsfield site it's never been a landfill it has been a residential single family home that has had a couple of automobiles and some Residential Waste that was put on the property and I've got people here complaining daily about a person that's trying to go and improve that neighborhood which would be removing the automobiles removing the the the debris and the trash on site and making sure that that condition is now monitored routinely so I don't see how what we're proposing here is something that should be construed as negative where the current owner could keep it that way for the the rest of time it's been so desired so again I think we need to bring the temperature down I think we need to understand where we're at and not take this thing and blow it out of proportion here it is not a significant source of PE B that is slightly over that condition and again sorry for the long-winded item but I I'm just getting tired right now of the assaults on this project when they really aren't informed of what's going on if I may back my time let me add one other thing to follow up with what Michael I believe someone else was next before Doug someone else was in line before dou yes there was somebody if I may make one comment to correct an error that was made by a prior speaker point of order only National Heritage is still reviewing we have not gotten anything we're not holding back anything when National Heritage they had a person assigned to this site who went out on I believe a maternity leave the it has recently been reassigned to another person and we're expecting to get cooperation from National Heritage on that so we can get a report that we can give to you and give to the public I just want to make sure that we're following up on Michael's statement there's nothing to hide here thank you all right thank you um Chrissy wood again 16 hildra Street um I think the point about like the fact that the property owner didn't know is really just null and void I mean he had every opportun he had the same opportunity that any of the rest of us had to come to meetings we all work full-time we all have a life um I certainly do and I still come and you know so he had he had all the chances to find out the information if he so wanted to so I think that the fact that he doesn't know is not something that can be used as an excuse um and the other fact the other point I wanted to bring up is hey if they want to buy the property buy it buy it now I mean they don't want to buy it unless they can do what they want on it right and I'm suggesting that you don't let them do what they want on it until the state looks at it and makes sure that it's all good to go um the other thing I wanted to say is posos is um measured in was it parts per trillion so to say that the amounts aren't a lot I don't think you can say that and it doesn't matter if it exists already so we're what we're going to contribute and make the problem worse we're going to contribute to a problem that we know already exists and add more to it that makes no sense oh you know to say that it might cause cancer and to to diminish the meaning of that I'm sorry I I don't think that anyone's going to want to put their stamp on that and say you know what that's okay with me let's poison the people of Chums that's okay let's do that because why because a few people want to make some bucks that's all I want to say thank you okay all right any other input out there or on anybody else on no line anybody else in the audience there all right uh you walked in late I just up all right no comment no question no nothing okay thank you for the opportunity I no no no uh I don't know what yall talked about sorry for being late if you could go to the podium that'd be great I don't really have any okay okay all right okay I mean all I would say I I missed the last hour yeah can you say who you are just so just so we can do hi Peter spawn 24 Fenwick than you um apologies I've missed the last hour so you all I'm not really in a position to offer much of anything okay uh but when I look at this project it seems pretty clear to me is the state has determined there's a reportable quantity because it matters and what's been reported has been or about to be reported I'm a little clear on where we are in that but it's groundwater the state also has reportable quantities for soil contamination so the way the state program works is if you have one of these reportable quantities which is a health-based number right in either soil or groundwater you get into the state cleanup program and that's what's happening and so the big unknown from a technical point of VI is is there posos contamination on the site in the soil or not and that's how these programs are set up the whole ASM phase one is take look and see if there's any possibility and if there is you're supposed to sample and so I don't know if you all talked about that but that was just my thought in uh looking at the background documents so thanks I wasn't going to say anything but thank you no thank you okay anybody else okay I'm Bob G through at 22 Hilder Street and throughout this whole yearlong process I find it amazing that Poss uh property possibilities gets the information to you people you want it by 6:00 get it to you at 559 does not surprise me that trying to go around the system by not notifying the property owner of the problem we won't tell him we get the project approved maybe we take care of it afterwards because it becomes our responsibility once we own the property but the issue was discussed and provided before we owned the property now Garrett should have told us what the problem was current owner of the property and they just kind of go around that that's been privity possibilities most operand and as a neighbor I'm very disappointed with that uh and it goes from everybody's work on this project whether it's the developer Hancock Builders or the attorney who likes to throw things around and get everybody upset get rats behind but what's going on just get me my money thank you very much I'm done thank you all right so are we no okay Nate Montera for HTH than you what the neighbors just witnessed with the attorney attacking the board was to me an embarrassment by him that I mean that was an embarrassment one question that I have I asked the planning board the same question was a letter on April 10th from the where is it here water department the water department due to the Board of Water Commissioners has taken proactive measures to by instituting a new rule in regulating prohibiting the insulation of private septic systems on properties of buding Zone one or adjacent to Wetlands Direct a budding Zone 2 given that the property in question is next to Zone one with Wetlands intervening it is imperative that the alternative Solutions the gentleman earlier said that they're not trying to hide anything that's April 10th what are the alternative Solutions has there been any alternative Solutions regarding the septic systems that's a the developer is saying that he's not hiding anything the residents would like to know what are the alternative Solutions based on the letter dated April 10th that's 4 months ago 5 months that's all that the residents would like to know is what are the alternative solutions that is in black and white public racket appreciate time all right let's see anybody else out there oh yeah Michael favor the applicant yes okay the it seems like everybody is up to speed with all of the public information that's happening with cheler so it just confuses me why they wouldn't know what the alternative is the alternative is would be us to connect to the city sewer but the city sewer has been on a moratorium and not allowing residential tiin for several years now we would never be exploring this option with septic we would never have had to do any water tests we would never have had to do a phase one environmental all of these things would have gone away if the city of chelsford would allow us to tap into a sewer that is directly on site so if you want to throw up arms i' I'd love to get the entire neighborhood to come down to the city to allow us to go Connect into sewer that'd be lovely um so we have been exploring every alternative possible and we're not hiding anything it's all been public information it's readily available for everybody to see um to tie in the sewer if you guys give us permission but we've been told no several times even after multiple attempts so just want to make that clear as well okay yes oh yeah just quickly Peter spawn again oh did I jump I'm sorry I thought I thought he go ahead go ahead go ahead yeah I just I just want to say that um Michael what you said isn't entirely true because there's a big unknown question on the posos and it has not been determined whether or not there is a source of posos on that property in the soil I know there's been some data put out there and there's you know the LSPs are doing their discussions back and forth but from my point of view um there still is that open question of whether or not that property is contributing to Cher's uh weal contamination so even if it was connected to the Sewer you still got a situation where the development process is going to have to move around soil and we do not know if that soil is contaminated by the uh U alleged vehicle and other operations that went on on that site so I'm just speaking from a practical point of view I mean Richard you and the board will have to figure out what our bws say and what we can and can't do but from a practical point of view connecting to the Sewer doesn't eliminate the fact that it has this site has a reportable concentration and again I want to be sure we remember the state has determined that the amount of posos in the groundwater exceeds a health standard that the state has established and by the way that standard which is I think 20 parts per trillion for six posos things I believe the state's in the process of making that lower because this stuff is even worse than originally thought so you know you can go around in circles on this whole thing but um I think the town has an obligation to work with developers to make sure these sites that are known to be contaminated are not going to create a future health risk and that's all I care about it's for me it's not development or no development it's who wants to take a health risk so thank you and apologies all right yes hi uh Justin Johnson um 26 hrth um first I want to ask there's been a couple instances tonight where the residents of the street have I would been say we've been made uncomfortable is there an issue with us being here no so I I don't know why there's uh I won't say attacks but there's definitely stuff directed at us for us being like complaining or um trying to change The Narrative here I think what we're all expressing is concern over what is possibly going to happen um you can say that there's you know posos there it's okay there is and it's not necessarily just about what we're dealing with right now it's what also could come through in the future um right now there's a there is reportable concentrations that should be brought to the state if this gets worse and it's on top of Cher's well why would it why would we want to why would all of the citizens have to pay the price for four houses um we already had a letter go out I think a year ago about a above average concentration that we so we've already had an issue it's already come up once before um I don't know why such a small development would be considered at this point when it's sitting on top of our wells is you can put a house there you have and put another house there it's not the issue of it's not necessarily the issue of hey I'm against like developing stuff that's just the way the world goes um it's the is my issue is what's going on with our health and what is what is possibly going to go on down the line um for future Generations um that's what I have thank you thank you yes I'm Linda Carney at 19 Plum and 17 Hilder Street and I'm not quite sure how to word what I have to say so please bear with me and speaking back to Mr lefer as he just came back on the second time and his response that um it's we're concerned about putting tying into town sewer okay he knows he can't tie into town sewer we know he can't tie into town sewer he made me feel like he was talking down to me that I was thinking that I didn't know he was thinking that we didn't know that he couldn't tie into town sewer everybody in this room knows Town sewer is not available for Residential Properties right now all we're asking for him to do is to come up with what his alternative plan is now that the water department has said he can't do this without tying into town sewer we're asking for that clarification we're not playing dumb that we didn't understand that he couldn't tie into town sewer I just think he's short selling us as neighbors and we've been here right along as you know at every departmental meeting regarding this and I think we are as knowledgeable as a lot of the people in this room and it just made me feel like he thought we were trying to like we didn't understand that he didn't know that he couldn't tie into town sewer I'm not quite sure but it just said un very uncomfortably we are very well aware and that's the point if he can't tie it to town SE why is he still proceeding with this project at this time without coming up with alternatives to that thank you we have Michael leer on the call again oh okay yes go ahead Michael sorry actually I don't have anything to say I forgot to take my hand down okay okay all right all right so are we done with input okay public input on this issue motion to close public input second okay all in favor I I okay so that part is all right so first off what is the proximal question we're being asked tonight um basically their next their next steps do they um the hearing continued tonight into one having the peerreview results and making this decision on if they pass the groundwater protection or if there needs to be stipulations first put in place okay and if we divide the issue because one question has to do with the uh septic systems uh under asphalt uh Zone one adjacent um and I'm not sure that there was as many questions or problems with that but well again from what I read yeah yeah no I mean again there's multiple different questions that that have come up I mean so let me just let me kind of help you yeah go the step that we're in right now is the groundwater protection zone right and then once that if that passes and at some point is approved on this property then they would go into the septic process which would then go through an approval process so there's a lot in here but septic is after the groundwater protection septic is after okay and then to go back to this issue ultimately what's not disputed between these two is that pasas is above a reportable level is that true that's that's what one is saying and the other is saying they didn't say it wasn't but didn't say it was because on one hand you know if you I own a piece of a property it's my right to do what I want but I can't create you know there's limits in terms of creating problems for somebody else and right now the question is if we have P above reportable numbers it might be that site it might be upgradient you know we don't know that so so if it's reported to the state as it's required then the state would then acquire a plan and that plan will be looking for a cause that we do not have right now correct yes and with our experience like with your experience in chumford the reason we have the septic system is because we had failures and fines and illness that's why we have SE in the past and the the big problem with p is that you don't want to make a permanent error yes yes yes yeah yeah it's a it's a difficult moving forward moving Target as was implied that they're even considering lowering the numbers even lower uh you know for all parties involved not just this particular project but for everybody out there kind of thing that's involved with where it is uh in particular water supplies and where you get your water supply versus where you don't get your water supply I mean there there's a whole bunch of variables that are that that are out there kind of thing but I think yeah I think at at this point we're we're trying to determine um as she said the the uh those environmental factors involved okay with the site and uh what's the next step and where should It Go um and with where we stand right now should it be going whether it's going through um the present owner who technically the owner that that they're doing their due diligence to make contacts with with the state and and whoever uh but uh I think something has to move in that Direction One Way or Another so that we can get some final answers in regards to uh where does this where do this Pro where does this piece of property you know go forward to I mean you know again septic is is is is another stage of the issue but uh um we we can't forget what we're the one issue that we're facing which is this environmental component is uh which let's say past or or other constituents that uh maybe you know again I'm not implying that it is but maybe found or different things in the soils versus what's in the water and you know etc etc kind of thing so I think we're in that situation where we uh are probably pres again looking at the question should it move on to the state's perview uh that they know it and what's going to be their followup steps to it and whatever kind of thing um and I think as brought up by somebody it's it has a hopefully a higher priority of a a look at and review because of its location to water supply versus other locations that are not directly related to you know water supply let's say so it uh doesn't get any easier no doesn't get any easier but and one thing I don't think that anybody involved is evil I think they have different different agendas which is fine no no but in terms of DET determining what's going on yeah uh I don't want to screw up and I'm I'm I'm just if it's I I don't know that the past levels are elevated from something onsite or if it could have been offsite or whatever else but that not knowing the cause I'm a little bit I'm I'm really nervous about saying this is good and letting it go on yeah what happens and what happens if the owner is informed and informs the state and what happens there cuz I'm well again there is there there's a once the state knows about it I guess there's a a pretty clean process uh in which they follow I I I I'm not that privy to their time schedules and how they you know how they do a b and c but uh you know there the process is is is in place I mean it's not like it's not been done before and this is the first time they ever did it uh there's you know locations around that uh they're already going through and uh I think uh um the state is again as I said if they're really requiring to lower the levels even more I think they're they're kind of implying even a more critical review of of what's going on not saying anybody has the final answer right now but uh go from there so in some place in all this there's a discussion in the hydrogeological study talking about flow and saying it doesn't go to the Wells well I mean I mean you hate to say it but but uh you know again not getting into the thing is that the Waters of the Zone ones and the Zone twos are going to get pulled into the well system that we have in the in the town because that's what we got I mean if if we didn't have a 100% uh you know public well system I mean I know there's a few private Wells out there but not not many you can probably count them on a few hands uh at this point but uh bottom line is that uh these are the areas that re that are directly or indirectly recharging the well fields and going to be pulled into the water you drink so it's it's it becomes an argument about how long it'll take for it to get from point A to point B more so than will it get from point A to point B I mean we've had other contaminants in the past uh that actually had even say slower movement processes that we found in in some of the well fields at different points in time over the years and uh you shake your head and say gez that's a surprise that it could get from there to there but the issue was it did and the study of it showed its location and its source and whatever kind of thing and uh and you know again going back to the fact that whatever we put into the ground potentially becomes an issue in a community where what you put in the ground is what you drink you know kind of thing and therefore yes I think uh we have to be um prudent I I guess if we were getting out water from a reservoir you know up in the mountains where there's no signs of of anything then uh I guess we we wouldn't be talking about it but uh if we're particularly a town that for most of its history has put everything we've ever had in the ground and uh what's the term they use for this stuff the forever group you know where it never disappears well I mean never is it's forever but it's also yes yes okay yeahor no but thank you so but yeah so so bottom line is that uh yeah I think uh we have to be prudent and hopefully the system will will work a number of these things out and uh as much as the sewer the notd sewer the you know all those other issues that that get dragged into this but uh U where we're finding more and more issues the more and more we look which every since says oh yeah but I no it's not bad that we know that it's there you can't do about something about something if you don't have any concept that it's there but and it's it's lousy that you find it it's lousy that you find it on your property but the fact is that uh you can't do anything about it unless you know that it's there and and testing I mean blank number years ago they didn't have the capacity to test in the trillions so therefore no they didn't didn't find it it may not even been used at that time but they didn't find it but now they now they can and regretfully the data is now showing healthwise that there's quite a few issues and the fact there was a mention in one of the reports that uh chumford water district is talking about putting past removal or putting past removal in place do that that doesn't really change anything because the bottom line you just don't want to put it you know more than you have in your water supply until you get a whole I mean you you you can do a lot of different things to quote unquote improve the narrative but uh the issue is you need to get a handle on what it is where it is and and how much of it's disposed of where and how and and uh it's a multifaceted scenario not just one you know kind of thing I think so and I think one of Mr Leer's points yeah was when they actually do the investigation yeah it might pop up that it's someplace else which actually if it pops up on somebody else's property on in the neighborhood might not be good to know there or for them yes yes yes I mean I mean again you know again you're you you're basically trying to you know narrow down what I call sources of past residential use sources versus non-residential sources and the non-residential can be more more of it and larger concentrations and whatever so therefore you know commercial properties could potentially be you know more dramatic than than potentially residential houses but uh we'll we'll we'll see I guess is the is the answer that uh we're all going to have to face so so my summary is that there's elevated pest yes we don't know what yeah we've been concerned that by disruption or flow or whatever that it is in a location that's adjacent to Zone one and close to Wells that could create a permanent problem there MH uh The Next Step am I right in thinking that if the state uh takes over they then do an investigation to find out what the source is at that point yes and and again I think was that was implied is that there would be a dual activ AC ity which you know where the communities and the state you know have to refocus some of their directions as the state does certain things any information that they can get through the town's processes and whatever are also you know something that they don't have to go running around and chase and whatever so uh but yeah I mean yes the answer is yeah I'm just looking for what is going to get us to the point that we feel safe well I I and not I don't know that we're going to do that tonight no I I I I don't think anybody of us have us a magic one so no I don't I don't believe that at all I don't believe that at all I apologize for talking so much David did you have any questions no I do not so so what's the proximal question tonight um do you want to accept the recommendations from umide Environmental going forward do you want to say something else based on all the information that you've received do you want to continue the hearing I don't maybe Alex has a recommendation KP law uh through you Mr chair Alex weight from yes JP law um so one thought that did occur to me is um in my opinion the board has brought Authority Under uh General Law chapter 111 section 122 um to Abate public nuisance conditions and under that statute nuisance conditions are um deemed to be any condition which could be injurious to Public Health um so to the extent that there's a concern about the elevated levels of past on the site I think the solution to that is for the site to go into D system um be assigned a release tracking number and um you know follow the procedures under the mCP to determine the full extent um of the release and whether there is significant cause for concern or not and so I do think the board has the authority to order the record owner of the property um to make that notification to D of the release okay okay so you think to make that order and also to to to have all the parties understand that that's the direction we're going in that we're putting it into the state system is that what you're implying well so it would be the record owner's legal responsibility to okay uh notify D I think you could include information the public records that have been referenced tonight um as part of the order so that once the record owner is supplied with those public records that he is then legally knowledgeable of the release and that's when the um legal obligation to report to the EP commences okay so that's kind of number recommendation number one right is to uh ask the owner to require that the owner reports it to the mass D correct the second recommendation is for documentation relative to accumulation of auto perts maintenance uh product containers and other materials and activities that resulted in accumulation they can't hear you yeah sorry second recommendation uh is the Board of Health requests additional documentation relative to the accumulation of auto parts used maintenance product containers and other materials and the activities that resulted in the accumulation yeah which which again I think is what it once it gets into the state system that's clearly what they're going to be doing but yeah yes okay it's and the third the third uh recommendation pending response to the request uh recommended above whether or not to approve the pending application can be further evaluated by the Board of Health okay do you think that the first requiring the owner to report to the D is really the well I mean again it sounds like it's at this point in time it's it's one of the hangup points so I guess formally it would behoove us to make that step to inform the owner the present owner current owner of of their obligations and that it needs to go into the system and that these other issues are what we're looking to help and determine you know going forward yes so rich through the chairs they're two separate reporting to the state would be the P levels right the other piece on the contaminations yes would be a further review um in a deeper dive to a 21e on that part so those are two separate that is two separate things yes items what what contaminations other than Pas well but but again I mean the obvious issue is that P right now yeah right now the only thing that we do know sorry to CH is that the rep the P numbers are at a high reportable number to the state the other results we don't have enough of to report we don't have enough results to report anything to the state on that second item right that's why they're too separate did that make sense it made sense I thought that they actually I thought some of the reports had actually said that they went through to look for you know oils and such and they did not find them the if you on the summary from um lard environmental is that they did not he felt that they did not do a deep enough dive for that information they didn't share what they actually found in detail and explanation so that we would request further information on the work that was done for that 2020 okay your thoughts yeah no I mean I mean clearly I think that's what we're we're looking for is that um you know a further review of the 21e is is clearly looking for the past issue which is the you know the but also too it's always about what else would it would it or could it possibly show up and we don't we we don't know I mean that's always an unknown kind of thing anything else you Council anything else that you would say about the verbage there of what we're doing uh no Mr chairman I think um it sounds to me like you're you're on the right track okay okay all right yeah if you so do we want to propose numbers one and two of the three recommendations yeah well do we got this so we got it yeah no no I I yeah yeah I I would say yeah we'll do the three all three two I thought the third one was contingent on the first two yeah that's true that's true okay okay yes okay so I want you to make a motion on the first two and we can vote on it and for this do I need to read it out loud again yes okay okay so uh recommends uh we request documentation confirming that the necessary reporting of past 6 detections to mass D has occurred and detail regarding next steps uh in investigation and response actions uh secondly uh the board recommends uh additional documentation relative to the accumulation of auto parts used maintenance product containers and other materials and the activities that resulted in the accumulation okay a second second okay all in favor I I all right unanimous all right all right close the hearing yes close the he mo to close the hearing second second all in favor I what to continue the hearing it's not to close sorry sorry Alex what wording would we used to continue the hearing based on the results thank you continue to continue the public I'm sorry yeah motion to continue the hearing at another time based on the uh results coming forward okay yeah okay second if necessary okay yeah yes I think formerly he seconded so I think we have to vote again yes all in favor I I okay okay so formally did it okay I think technically technically we did it all right all right so thank you Mr chairman I'm I'm gonna sign off okay thank you oh thank you right let's go to yeah so the next I think I just found a uh well let you you open the topic it's the uh uh approval the minutes yes yes and I think that um in section under public input the end of the sentence is cut off uh motion made open and close public input seconded by David pette it was voted unanimously to open and I think it said open and close is what it should be Oh see it no okay last page next to last paragraph okay wow we cleared the house missed it I know see um do we have still live yes are so but nobody's on Zoom correct nobody's on zoom zoom is closed okay it's still on tele media okay okay all right so motion to approve with with the uh if that sentence is filled out okay sound good thank you and seconded okay all in favor I for the minute okay all right so f the page that all right way down here all right so we're on incoming y so we received an email from Ruth lunar regarding 273 um uh 243 Riven Road my mistake um and that was really around some information and Rich and you and I had spoken about it at one point yes concerns about some contam old contamination on that site there's a lot of information in here that goes back to 2007 and the 2000s this is documentation related to when they built 49 correct and they put the waste there and such yeah so she had concerns that there was still probably some contamination there it was also that the original when this went through the Board of Health in the 80s or something that this actually that they said that limited use going forward and that just had just been sort of lost over the years yeah and then they did have a uh D Cleanup that happened there and that ordered the date of order was yeah 2005 December 23rd 2005 uh the final inspection all continued through there I'm basically working with uh Ruth we weren't able to pull together any definitive information that anything still occurred so we weren't able to put through a request of a 21e for this project okay because it's just not enough information to require that okay okay that was very helpful yeah so yeah no yeah all right so the next one is um there was a SE main break on progress AV um and we actually went out there I met Chris we met actually um storm water and uh the sewer department out there Rich you met Charlene and I yes at that area uh the reports were handled correctly uh Christine ceny the DPW director uh called in D EPA called did all the um the things we went out to look at it no concerns it was all uh handled appropriately and very well done so they got their followup with d that they'll continue to do so wait do they have any idea why the the pipe failed old pipe burst bur we work on repl station so when the pumps kicked on the pipe okay what happened is they were there actually checking the meter and happen to see it so they were able catch it very quickly caught it quickly very good but are we at the point that this is kind of worth the lifespan of the pipes that we're going to yeah she's working on getting some things taken care of there okay and there's no problem with like roots or any uh construction overhead or anything like that not that I'm aware of okay didn't look like it I'll apologize CU I last question oh yeah no this isn't my field and so I make sure I have some sense of what's going on you're probably like oh silly doctor no no no the the key there was that the timing the location yeah uh I hate to say it but weather conditions it was very dry and therefore the the drainage Brook that could have potentially carried some of this material down to its wellfields and whatever wasn't running yeah and whatever so therefore everything was favorable for a change when something went went wrong kind of thing so all right so okay so we got that one all right the next one is um a notice of availability status of remedial monitoring report 188 Princeton Street this is basic the summary reports for the last 6 months that were sent to De okay so that's ongoing okay what's 180 Princeton Street it's that's the uh former shell you me former Shell gas station yeah is it what is it now can't fixure it it's the um I looked it up Petro Plus let me get your picture Petro Plus it's a gas station petol plus now right yeah yeah I know it yeah okay okay yeah yeah all right that's been going on for a long long time um this is the master EP consumer confidence report certification for East water it's an annual report there was no issues at that time the next one is from D sent to us WJ Graves has applied for an air quality permit which is now required for all of them um once they have reviewed it they will let us know and the public will have 30 days for public input okay and this is at the uh this is Westford adjacent or this is next to Newport industries by West virge yes right up there off a ledge road yeah all right the next one is uh East Water pest Wells um Mrs is there communicating to De and sent us a copy that their pest levels have exceeded and they have notified um D and the complete compliance plan is in place and public will be it's obviously notified as we were notified do they have so they're working on a plan do they have an amount in this someplace it did not give me the exact amount it's just telling that it's over the allotment and they needed to put a plan so the attachment is the form they need to fill out so this is what we would have otherwise expected at uh on hildr uh Senate water had already done this over a year ago and they've already um applied for grant money and such they have things in place to address theirs now East water is we'll be working on something similar the next few documents is tropical smoothie pumping reports M for the last few months yeah did we want to tell them at some point that um we did but they Haven they haven't come back so we we did inform them if they wanted to come before the board to request not to continue she could but she hasn't okay not to continue what I'm sorry but this is this is something that they did not have the ability to do an external grease trap like we require okay because it sits on ledge um and they have been good citizens in the sense that we said that they had to get it cleaned out professionally like once a month they had to tell much how how much stuff was in there so on and so forth and that they could also they could not expand their menu to incre include anything they had grease Etc so this has been somewhat own Rous for them to do I think every month is it yeah and they keep giving us the reports and this has been going on for like a year and a half two years now and I think originally we said that they had the option after you know like a year or two that they could apply to sort of have a decreased I think it was decreased frequency I don't think it was that didn't happen at all um and so I think that we've notified them and we're happy they like I said they've been good citizens so that uh if they wanted to come before us we could reconsider the frequency I guess they just find it easier just every month just do it and send it and and forget about it you know yeah which also means they don't end up having a surprise uh you know if they were to go three months and all a sudden find out that there is a some sort of product a problem that problem that they don't find it after the fact yeah y so okay sounds good okay all right the next one is um Central Mass mosquito control project the spray dates for August was the 1st the 7th 13th 19th 22nd and 28th and as usual the residents can call uh the 508393 3055 from 7 to 3:30 if they wanted their specific land property or neighborhood um sprayed all right we have a few rabies laboratory reports these are positive yeah yes yeah many are so this one was a brown bat to a dog impossible to the human and the that dog turned was positive was positive and I asked Dy to follow up um both adults were went through the rabes vaccine process yeah and so did the dog sheesh and the final one the rabus test that's negative for the next one there's two dogs involved and one's positive one's negative the Davis yeah I have a dog named Bruce yeah and a dog named correct so wle Wrigley was okay yes all right the next one was uh new house wildlife rescue did they have to put the animals down how do they do the the test these days no dumb no they did not have to put the animals down okay so I assume that Bruce is gone is alive still that's my understanding my impression so must be some kind of postexposure prophylaxis for the animal as well as for the person I I guess if it's early enough if it is early enough it's possible to do that it's possible yeah it's possible so appears to have caught early yeah yeah ver is waiting till her dog has received the rabies booster to live by it's on the the uh notes part her dog has received his uh rabies booster and is being quarantined her and the husband have received the preventive vaccines through their healthcare provider and there's a cat BN who's unsatisfactory are you want the same form or you want a different 18 Grand View yeah he's at the next one there's a lot of animals here 18 Grand View you skipped over to 18 yeah so 18 Grand View so there unsatisfactory then how do they handle that any idea well I mean someone says this a strange you know animal wandering around in circles and it dies this is the uh oh so it was a brat bat yes that was tested not the dog right or not the cat Okay and then one thing in Massachusetts if I have a kid bit by a squirrel you don't do anything in terms of rabies it's assumed that all squirrels in Massachusetts are negative so uh they if it changes then I had to change what I do but uh we so they we routinely test the squirrels if there's a question this particular one was because of new new house wildlife rescue she chose to have the squirrel because she was called to rescue the squirrel yeah and she chose to have the squirrel tested okay so she so there wasn't a behavior or anything like that it was just she brought it in the environment didn't want to infect anybody else right um okay right the one that was the bat to the cat and the specimen was decomposed M the um cat and the family went through the rabies vaccination even though they weren't able to determine thank you we did follow up on that one to make sure uh Donna the uh gravies exposure that's part of nationally reportable diseases does someone from the Department report that to the state um actually the the report itself here we get reported when the test is done that goes to the state yeah the state is the one that reports it to us to us because it is yeah we're getting it from the state laboratory right State lab so done and done yeah goes fedal yeah yes aquatic treatment all right so heart Palm was treated on August 1st they did close it just till noon time just for un unobstructed treatment process there was no harm to anyone for it and that was really for the nuisance of the algae yeah yeah all right the route three spill mitigation um they do have a signed contract for the removal of the containers there um it has not it did say early AUST August it hasn't started yet we'll follow up next week if if nothing has started you okay no no comment this is a spill that what was it when when did it occur no what was it no it was on the highway what was what was the substance but not in in was any they decided that this thing The Spill Cur in another's town and they to like move it to chelsford it store it here like nails like what keep it yourself it's your your community you keep it what are we doing with it but whatever it's fast as fast so that's fine okay all right you're on to clean harbors yeah yeah uh the de Port d report is attached this was 30 gallons of hydraulic oil released to Pavement on Warren ab and Fleetwood Drive um they they following up and doing the right things with d was no significant risk to the health at the time okay what was it was just a pop line or yeah it was um it was El Harvey a trash compan one of the Packers trucks blew a line or something okay yeah yep while they were working so okay yeah it was a trash trucks hydraulic oil line yeah okay motion to accept incoming correspondence unless somebody has any other questions second okay all in favor I okay great all right outgo all right for outgoing we have 10 King Street the uh an appeals 24x 28 garage um it had nothing to do with us I put no concern signed off on it it was just due to lot coverage amount yep 39 Evergreen Street um Department review for board of appeals a 23x 29 A2 second floor Edition a lot coverage um concern Board of Health sign off cu no concerns for us and so it wasn't like a new residence or anything no no okay uh the next appeals was 26 straberry Hill Road it's a 34 by8 Farmers porch um it didn't meet the front set backs no concerns for the Board of Health I signed off all right the next one is a letter that I sent off to key moments LLC the body Ard establishment was the approval of the variance for the six foot or more petitions that you approved at the last meeting along with sinks in each area the next one is 39 North Road in Crosby Lane the proposed development of 16 residential rental units basically my let to the select board is it obviously must meet the title five um septic system regulation and dubster regulation other than that there's no concerns for us all right the next is it it is 16 was now at 16 they increased it that's why there was a second letter all right the next one is an order letter that was sent to 41 Hall Road based on um the nuisances and contamination possibility and not contamination but mosquito infestation um trash debris in the backyard and on the porch all right yeah the next one is a um violation ticket given to the Princeton station for $150 uh the two issues were the men's employee bathroom uh sink is Rusted uh concerns for cleanliness for the employees and the kitchen ceiling uh needs some cleaning all right and that is the end of outgoing motion to accept outgoing okay all in favor hi hi super whole business all right so old business at the last meeting you had requested information on sewer capacity yeah and some of the questions right so I worked with Christine Clancy DPW director they've been very helpful um anth um so the first one is a sewer credit policy was developed to promote economic growth and so additional sewer capacity is reserved for commercial properties we do allow residential to add excuse me 500 gallons per day which allows for minor build outs but not substantial residential build outs they we remove capacity from the system through an II program and track how much we can then allow for purchase then to see the PowerPoint so if you skip over to her Powerpoint the different things that they're doing who do we purchase her from H who do we purchase I thought LOL wasn't talking to us well that's the no it's what they're talking about is when right now okay if they have extra capacity right commercial properties can can purch purch the sewer credit through DPW okay so with that how they continue to try to get additional sewer capacity is in her Powerpoint so you'll see the short midterm mitigation efforts and then the long-term capacity mitigation efforts mhm that they go through to continue to get additional capacity for some projects dear Lord so the the graph that shows the sewer capacity by month M what in the world do they do when we're 50% above uh capacity there's you'll see it further there's actually fines that are that are paid it's not on that particular power point but sheesh and there's I assume that there's no motion on increas in capacity in any way shape or form not at this point LOL does not have it to well LOL doesn't have it but nobody's talking about building more capacity for LOL not that I have heard of no okay is mean is the state got a program to improve Regional sewers treatment plans no right so the next one is a sewer capacity and connection restriction by way I we if anybody knows anybody at the State House it seems like an important issue if they're worried about housing right and there's no more capacity in the systems they that's when you go to the sewer systems some towns and cities are on it no I'm not going to get into it no I mean no no the the bottom line is that yes if they're concerned by housing then they have to have infrastructure to support it and has the state come up with anything so far to balance what I call balance the scenario you want more housing well you need more infrastructure and then maybe you can have it uh no no no nothing zero so thank you for for getting this this is good yeah so I think you've all read through the rest of the information yeah yeah all right okay so motion to accept old business no we have one more one more there one more y yep the last thing was um the pool the pool um abandonment that um mosquito control had sent out if anybody last month anybody had any uh abandoned pools to give us a call they would spray for mosquito um oh mine got attached somehow yeah your next door a neighbor has a pole yeah yeah yeah then but actually I'll let you know that I did ask um Mark to go out and take a look at these properties so Mark and Charlene went um the two abandoned pools that I did get the information from Mass Central mosquito was 120 westf Street they have now they called on their own have it sprayed and then they have um filled it in so there's no more Aban pool there that's and then 14 princess have the homeowner called themselves yeah to have it sprayed um and they're looking into what they can do in the future future good good yeah good thing was it was people calling on their own permanent solution yeah we we out state or welcome I don't know I guess Detective all right so one down that way Nancy that's why there's no motion down there oh okay that's what it is all right so we need a motion on approving old business motion to accept old business old no new business I'm sorry that was new new business no this is old business motion to accept old business let's get okay all in favor I okay that's done okay new business all right new business is the what we talked about previously is the rules and regulations for body art establishments and practitioners our regulation so the changes that I made if you want to approve them is on page six and seven and I have it highlighted in yellow I can get myself to it you're already there so we've defined as body art practitioners and not just the owner whatever the yeah thing was in that crazy wording part yes yeah there was operator before that was getting confused with practitioner practitioner so that has been clarified yeah so in number two it's body out practitioner areas which it used to say operator number four body art practitioner area used to say operator mhm um same thing with the rest of number four yeah and then number five was added multiple body art stations shall be separated by a permanent imp perable wall or partition that shall be a minimum of 6 feet high okay and then down to number eight um talks about the running water under parure equipped with rist of foot operated controls yeah how does that they don't do they have on their scenarios this foot operated kind of thing in these sinks that they have me the ones that are down last the ones we talked to last time that wasn't um it was something it was suggested when we spoke last time but I don't we didn't make them do that was just having the snc in there I'm not sure which ones they used okay this just gives options is all you're saying this just gives options to you to no this is stating that we're going to require that we're going to require it well and that it's going to be accessible within each body outs practitioner area right I mean they're required to have either a wrist or a foot operating control is my point wrist or foot yes either so they have an option either either okay okay okay yeah I mean uh and also too the other thing that sort of wasn't I don't know for sure because I didn't I didn't get down there but the janitorial sink mhm did they have one down there yes it is in the regulation to have a separate janitorial sink and they did they do have one down there okay that was good I said oh good jeez was that not in the well it wasn't in the original plan that's why that plan that they gave us didn't bother show that either so it's like it is though you know and then 12 and 13 was updated yeah yeah yeah know I I said I was looking at it and I I think the changes are good the only thing that I was looking at is I was interested in to see what different states were doing with their body art regulations and whatever and particularly in what I call the the requirements uh to get your permit the courses in a b and c and whatever and but one thing that this state doesn't do is that they don't actually have a a a practical exam in which you require them to take it but some states do have these an exam you know just to get get a clear picture of not that someone got their you know blood pathogen you know course done and and a course somewhere with you know uh anatomy and and Physiology and those kinds of things there I mean I think those are all critical things but they also have uh what I call an exam that sort of covers the whole written exam that covers the whole thing and mass doesn't do that doesn't seem to have any and again it's not that they they're not out there they are there's actually some consultant companies that actually do an exam you can you know meet somewhere and they can de do exams and whatever kind of thing I just didn't know what whether that was of any interest in which we should require a sort of a step up I mean because you know I mean we have the thing here we have the thing that talks about how many hours that they need to be a somewhere they've worked somewhere else you have to have the passing course do you you know but but um and they have to work as a for what almost two years or something like that to be before you qualify and and of course the other side of this whole coin is that we now have a regulation that we've never had to um enforce before okay kind of thing and also but no but never had because people no not worth it it's not worth it it's not worth it kind of thing oh well when Ernie was on the board yes he told me that he wrote it he said he required that you had have a board certified surgeon the only person who was able to put a and that's how that's that's what he told me at least I didn't read it no that's why cheler didn't have a uh but but the idea was all those things that you might require of it of course it was it was new back then and uh regretfully as I said before the state just said we're not doing anything anymore sorry town you take care of it and it's like okay really and uh so the issue would be that they came up with this model one finally after so many years and whatever at least it it gives some structure you know you know to it and also gives some structure of eliminating all the what I call the more off off the end kinds of procedures that so is there any like downside to we we'd have to look into it we don't con avability but the other thing is that sometimes there's like you take a measure and find out that it actually doesn't improve anything yeah well that's what I I I don't know I just took a quick peek around to see what was was there anything out there I mean I don't think with what what we have here I think it's fine okay I don't have a problem with that the issue is do we want to you know quote unquote do a little bit more than what the state did in their cot blanch you know model kind of thing uh uh I don't know again as I said I I haven't looked is this is this like in like other states or other states yes or is it like you know Westford and tingbo no no other states what what I'm saying is Massachusetts it was interesting just to kind of scroll through the uh the computer on you know what what states require this and what states don't require anything and this that whatever and Massachusetts and New Hampshire sort of fall fall into it they didn't require heck of a lot you know kind of thing I mean it wasn't that they didn't WR anything but uh other states have taken it the next that next step to Bas basically require and I I was looking at just some of the like the questions and answers in the exam and it it basically showed that they understood the overall General codes that are also out there you know about particularly about the privacy issues about the paperwork about the reporting all that other kind of stuff which again is something that our inspectors are going to have to sort of learn of because we've never done it before of what should we be looking for when we go in there and what kind of paperwork and documentation and to show that they're really doing it and not doing it kind of thing uh it's you bump into the is this it's like a standardized exam in all places to do it or is it like each community that has it no no this this this was sort of again it was a a state that didn't pass on the thing just through it to the locals the state actually the state actually had had which is where Massachusetts was Massachusetts basically was they controlled tattooing yeah and for a number of years they didn't allow it at all period that was their way out of it and then they sort of like well we have to approve something and they found it to be a little bit more difficult than they thought and then just went nope in two months it's yours sorry bye a quick review I did not see any Mass yeah exams out there no there is not not nothing to do M Mass is one of the states that that doesn't do anything again I'm not automatically saying we should be aware of it that that we should be doing it but um the issue is you know do we approve this tonight or we just take a little I mean everything that's in here tonight is fine I don't have it already says we approved it tonight huh no I know that it says this regulation was amended voted on it's in yellow so it's still a draft so it's a draft still a draft so so I guess the question is you know do we and again I it doesn't it's it's not like I'm hung up on it one way or the other it was just interesting that I just kind of caught on to all these other states doing it and again but there were states that I think uh one of the places was cosmetology is sort of the overlaying thing to body art that does all these different things and they've sort of created exams and other kinds of things and a process to make sure that you understood the whole concept of tattooing or whatever you were doing a little bit more thoroughly other than I need you to get this you know this course over here and I need you to get that course well what about all the other things in between kind of thing my motion would be that uh we keep our ears open as time goes on because I don't think this is the thing that we're going to solve between this meeting and and next time's meeting that's fine um but keep our ears open so if all we start finding that there is sort of a a National Standard that's evolving or the communities around us and such uh but I would actually uh say that any barring any further discussion I would make a motion yeah no no again I I was just throwing it out there because the last day or two I just kind of whipping through it and couldn't get a real handle on it of course with all of the other stuff that was in the packet it was like so so I I'll make a motion that we accept uh this as uh amended okay seconds okay all in favor I I okay yeah no as I said we can we can take a look at it and see if it's something that we want to pursue kind of thing so the next thing in new business is um I had mentioned to each of you and we talked about tonight's meeting separately um was the discussion of regarding possibility of future Board of Health meetings being televised in our Zoom access um it has been suggested that we do that with the one only the only regulatory Department that doesn't do that right now in the town um is what was shared with me so I thought it was shared previously with us that they just didn't have the capacity in part because so many of like you know the select board and such meetings overlap with our regular time correct so when we had looked into that previously um and I had speaking to Tele media at the time they did not have that on the specific nights that we do have our meetings and they still don't have that capacity on the specific nights that we do our meetings if you so chose we could and wanted to and was available to switch nights there are other nights available in order to do so those nights are Tuesdays the first third or fourth Tuesday of the month Wednesdays the 1 or 3D Wednesday of the month all right and Thursdays the 2 third or fourth yeah something you'd have to consider on a whole schedule change if it's something that you were interested in yeah and Avail I mean looking out there you see if other than these few over a period of time few high-end reviews over the last 40 Years of hearings and whatever this is what we usually look at for for being televised no I'm just saying what I'm laughing about I just think about like you know when I first joined the board we'd sit in the board of uh sorry the Department of Health there was a table down there in this room and we s a cram in there and if we had like six people that was an absolutely packed house uh so that uh when we first started doing chicken yeah well chicken brought a few out yes yeah and and no so that um with this I'm okay doing it first Mondays uh Wednesdays are difficult because I come from from drit Thursdays are difficult personally for me because uh I'm late I'm in the office till 8 on Wednesday on Thursdays uh Tuesdays could be an option if people wanted to and I don't know like how much people do they really feel that we aren't meeting our mandate by not there's just some discussion internally about transparency well again by the way access I I think that you know similar to what we did tonight I think when we're hitting scenarios and whatever then we could make a request of the parties about you televising and zoom and other kinds of things and kind of meet that as it goes do we I haven't you know again off the record I haven't you know heard many buzzes about us not being transparent over the last 40 some years that was never a never a well Don brought it up so com so I'm assuming that there's a reason why I was brought up and I'm assuming there's a reason that you'd probably want to entertain that we in fact do change our times so that it can be zoomed and and televised well it was actually suggested to me or it was actually communicated to me internally that we are the only Department regulatory Department that doesn't do it and it would be good if we did do it um certainly a vote on all of you on what you feel is right for the health department um I mean we're out there a lot people know kind of what we do in the department we're trying to get more visible as a department and what we execute every day um I don't that's well it sounds like I might be doing the right thing and you never can go wrong by doing the right thing you know quote Ted lasso by the way yeah I mean you know if we're the only ones I don't want there to be a perception that there's something that we're hiding or whatever the term is or that we're not accessible or something like that um I think they probably a doubt we may encounter some people who have disabilities who may want to be able to to use that Zoom or or or televis thing you know I mean right where it stays on shord tele media where some people watch it it's also on the YouTube um thing where it's available through there so you can view yourself again tonight when you go home oh no I'm thinking about like you know ex-girlfriends from 30 years ago oh there he is Google Eric at like 2 o'clock in the morning um well as I said we'll definitely bring it up again next meeting and see what uh you know okay see what's scheduling and other kinds of things I will say one thing is that if we made it for first Tuesdays that you know all the Monday holidays like this month that it gets bumped you know not this month but next month next month yes that would that would take care of that yeah um so but who else meets on Tuesdays on Tuesday nights um I actually did bring a I think it's conservation is only one Tuesday okay I wrote down the availability which ones I think are they here and are they televised planning does wed every other Wednesday uh they do use this room because they're all televised yeah yeah so planning conservation um all of that's why Wednesday's first and third because they do second and fourth probably correct okay so and then Tuesdays it's just the second is conservation the second Tuesday of the month believe was the conservation and Thursdays might have been and I'm eventually going to be taking off the fourth week of the spring the spring of the Fall months so so all right well as I said we'll definitely bring it up and everybody can look at their C schedules and see what you can do see what's possible and what's not possible kind of thing I can send you an email uh tomorrow with the actual availability that I just spoke of and then you can take a look at your schedules that first or second Tuesday of the month would at least at first glance make best sense okay to me okay all right so uh motion on new bus motion to accept new business second um yes second all in favor I okay so those are done and it's just the the next one newsletter I don't have oh okay on so next one is the uh newsletter we're obviously creating one every month now so instead of putting all the flyers in we'll put in each month's uh newsletter okay um kind of go through it for the public we have uh sooc Karaoke Every second Friday of the month from 7 to 10: it's at the Chums Center for the Arts it's free admission snacks and mocktails available for purchase growing positivity between our youth and seniors will be on August 20th from 5:00 to 6:30 p.m. here uh here in the chelston town hall gym it's a free event where the youth will can decorate a plant pot and attach a positive quote plants will later be delivered to the senior center this is the third time we'll be doing this and it's fantastic the kids love doing it and the seniors love receiving them at the senior center we have our annual kindl light vigil for overdose awareness this year we're actually doing it on the international day so it is going to be on their website it's going August 31st signing of the names will be at 6:30 Chumps Center Town common uh is where we're having that event depression and anxiety support group is an Ong growing support group August 27th is the next one from 6:30 to 8 the Chumps with Center for the Arts it's for anyone over 18 years old snacks and safe space is provided walking group is every 2 and fourth Tuesday from 9:00 to 9:30 starts here at the 110 ball fields um K soless we've engaged with them again this year and just signed a new contract they not only do mental health now they also do housing um services and assistance and uh food um services and assistance our next residential medical Shop's disposal is going to be September 9th from 9:00 to 4 right here at the chumped health department um Save a Life with opioid overdose response training will be August 6th so learn how to recognize and respond to an overdose and we're also creating it for kids that are going back to college to come in and learn how to do that everybody walks away with an our K kit blood pressure screening is the first Thursday of every month from 9: to 12:00 here at the health department Department in the last Thursday of the month 8:30 to 10:30 at the Chums Senior Center and no registrations required okay then we have a third annual Fall Festival coming up September 28th on a Saturday from 11: to 4: it was a great huge turnout last year we added another hour to it we got some uh great things happening lots of food trucks free princess performance free petting zoo Bounce House Touch a Truck free face painting balloon Addis it's all we try to get everything free we designed it initially for the co getting everybody back together and out and about and the families getting United and it was such a success that we continue to do it okay sounds good so what exactly is respond to calls and emails regarding questions or concerns on various public health issues and regulations where are you you looking at mine I'm on the back page of yours and probably the fourth one down so it's it's the most broad thing everything ever always like has like you know like you know dealt with the mice and you're like wait the mice where and this one's like you know I did stuff there's so much going on that every day trying to write each one down I used to tease Sue saying Sue yours are so short mine's so long she's like just wait just wait you're going to realize you're not going to be able to write everything down so that's what happened with that statement there's a book in Pediatrics it's like it's like your Guide to Everything okay it's called the people refer to as the Pediatric Bible and it doesn't matter what you need to know ekg's dosages anything it's in this book and if you go to the back you can look up some uh serum porcelain values and it tells you what page to find it and the reason is there are no there's no porcelain in your blood but it's just a joke that this is everything and the kitchen sink there you go there next month I'm going to write everything in the kitchen sink there it is yes Donna you have under sanitation comples discussions 2115 cheler Street deadline permits cold 7:15 what does that mean so that was um that's kind of been ongoing at 215 Chelson Street the building department had deemed it um not structurally safe right and they had a certain timeline they had to meet which was July 15th pull permits or they were all going to have to be evacuate and the building would be tagged they did pull their permits in time oh they did okay y okay hopefully are starting has started or is starting soon so as I probably didn't State what each of the board members are looking at is the monthly reports from each employee from the health department what happened to Oni oh he they decided not to reopen they closed for one week in the summer and they chose not to reopen to to stay with their other facilities um they said it was a tough decision to make but we just the right financial decision for them s party we did just have their retirement parties there yeah yeah and we didn't know that at the time that they were going to be closing did they get tight to their chest I don't know yeah sometimes sometimes yeah there was a strange thing someone says well the other thing is and that plan says that noo sold yeah new owners yeah they had made had become new owners too yeah Rick Steiner up in uh from Hill there was a thing there was initially something on it says oh permanently closed and then all of a sudden the next day it was like yeah and here are our hours I was like the heck is but again on on on social media there was now there was um a water break water main break up there that's right oh you think so yeah they all had to close I don't know why it said permanently but they all had to close until the water main breake was fixed oh okay okay okay spectors actually have to go reopen every single one of those that happens yeah but said permanently closed I'm going what okay A little dramatic maybe yeah yeah yeah well as I said social media you just never know what you're going to read and then all a sudden oh they're open I said oh okay all right so Mark refers to himself in the third person 41 Hall Road Mark and Charlene went out to one Kate lanee Donna can I make your request yes can can I don't I didn't get my Captain Marvel decoda ring in the mail yet so when every time anyone use an acronym could they Define it first please I have no idea what MC means or other things I I would understand these better if they were didn't use acronym so freely or at least Define it first the first time yeah and I can play the home game from that point no you good point we should do that we kind of okay just get used to what we're what burial permits oh we actually do issue every burial permit um that comes through it comes through the health department first yeah we have to approve it go through it as the burial agent for the town and um then it processes over to the clerk's Department where's Crispy Crunchy chicken I knew I knew somebody was going to ask that um uh New World gas on uh Littleton Road inside there they used to have a Subway Anna Duncan the subway had closed so now they're putting it the Crispy Crunchy chicken crisp so at some point they won't be any seats CU they don't have the capacity for seats but it will be a did you know chelsford when there was chicken corner like in the middle of town like nine roads come together and there's no signage you just like took your talk about that just yesterday yeah yeah okay so that was called chicken Corner the new chicken corner I think that uh uh Rich was joking is now up by like where Boston market and poy chicken like chicken chicken and chicken I was like did Crispy Crunchy chicken open up next open up there to them no no no somewhere somewhere different that's good yeah that intersection there's a mess too yeah okay they are widening and or Paving Drum Hill so my neighborhood is truly a mess yeah okay I have enough further questions on staffs I'm actually always amazed when I read down here it's like all my neighbors 10 need Street yeah do you know how NM Street got its name how NM Street got his name no no I didn't hear that one old man NM ran the uh the dump oh quit a Ben sure that was his his house is that's at least what uhill that's what Bill told me why Bill knows where everything's buried in town yeah he he suggested I not mention chelsford Village and what's underneath there yeah I live there I want to [Laughter] know all right all right thr okay motion to accept other other okay second okay all in favor all right all right when do we meet next so would normally be September 2nd which is the holiday yep do you want to go to the next Monday which would be September 9th that's what I would assume yeah yeah I would assum so yeah sure okay crazy to try to push it a lot of different things popping up so here's a thank you card from Sue this is from Sue yeah micone from you so she has not taken her trip yet no no no not yet no no it sounds like it's going to be next something like that I don't know I mean she's got so many things on her plate that all right so motion to adjourn motion to adjourn seconded okay all in favor I I all right okay got e e