okay it being 6:00 I'll call this meeting to order on June 3rd 2024 of the uh chancel select board and uh notify that uh notify everyone that chancel Tel media is broadcasting this meeting live and also recording it for later rebroadcast and if you would all join me in the pledge of allegiance to flag the United States of America to the stands indivisible andice for all thank you uh first up on on the agenda is public service announcements and the first one is about the parade and we have at least a couple members of the parade committee here who're going to talk about the parade good evening Lyn Marcella from the CH parade committee our annual update on what's going on with the parade and all the activities relative to the 4th of July um I've got a few things to talk to you about and then um Sam will be introducing our our announcing our parade Marshall in our hometown herrow so many members of this parade committee started back uh with the 350th celebration many years ago some have served almost 20 years and we are always looking for new members which you announce at every one of your select board meetings we appreciate that and we really would love to have some new members join because some of us are getting on in age and would like to retire sooner or lat later um I would like to thank Paul Cohen and Pat wo just who are Liaisons to us for the parade committee we would not be able to do it without their help so we appreciate you both uh committee members include candy and Sam Chase Paige Gillette Shan Hanway Jeff Hardy Eric linstead Chuck and Lin Marcella Kirk Marshall Brian and Karen REI and Rick Romano I'd also like to thank the trca police department of for all of their assistance with this biggest event in town they arranged for our permits we need a permit to have the parade coming down North Road also for closing 495 um the security the traffic issues they handle it all for us and we really appreciate it in particular thank you to Lieutenant Jason Po and chief Colin Spence and I'd also like to thank the chel fire department for everything they do to help us as you all know they get quite a few fire trucks from different towns and we expect them this year um and in particular thank you to Ryan Hol um thanks to the the CHC Department of Public Works for all of their help with erecting the reviewing stand camera stand making sure the Lawns are all cut and beautiful in the center for the parade and helping for road closures and an early reminder please don't put your chairs out too early uh the parade committee used to hang all of the banners that you see in the center vinyl square and Drum Hill and thankfully the Department of Public Works has been hanging them for us now with a bucket truck we used to climb ladders and it got a little sketchy here and there so we appreciate them doing them we had a record amount of banners sponsored this year which is awesome uh vinyl square is pretty full Drum Hill is full the center looks awesome so and with the flags it really looks great um we'd also like to thank chancer T media for all of their work in broadcasting the parade live and they also show a lot of um older parade programs from past years and it's kind of fun to look back at them um and we appreciate all their work we could not do all of the work that we do without these four outstanding departments in town so again thank you to them um I would love to thank parade sponsors but the businesses and the families that have helped us they're still coming in so I don't want to miss anybody we've got another month till parade so it's not too late if you want to help sponsor the parade because we don't get any um revenues from the town we raise all this money on our own and it is quite extensive what we have to raise to hire all the bands and do everything that needs to be done so we truly appreciate all these businesses and families for helping us so the calendar of events for the activities are Wednesday there'll be a country fair sponsored by the chela Lions Club and the chood art Society will have their show at the chood Center for the Arts on Thursday the day steps off with the John Carson Memorial Road Race and that is sponsored by Sullivan Farms Ice Cream and they have well over 2,000 Runners which is amazing um the Lions will have the country fair again on the common the art show will be still going on at the CCA and the 56th annual town of Chon 4th of July parade will step off at 10:00 a.m. uh finally the parade committee has taken on something new this year we are doing concerts on the common every Saturday evening in July so they'll be July 6th 13th 20th and 27th from 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. free to everybody that wants to attend um we'll have food trucks and there'll be great music so we highly recommend if you want to do something nice on a Saturday in July just hope for good weather and Sam if you would help me out with GL to help you thank you good evening members of the board uh Sam Chase uh for the chumford parade committee uh as we do every year uh we have a uh parade Marsh who leads the parade and we also have a designated Hometown hero so this year our hometown hero is Mike dunu Mike is a lifelong chord resident graduating from chord high in 1984 after working for the chumford water district for several years Mike joined the chumford fire department in 1993 attaining the rank of Captain after seven years he was appointed deputy chief in 200 and served in that capacity until his retirement last year after 30 years of selfless continuous Public Safety service to chelsford Mike also has served as a town meeting representative and continues to serve on the permanent building committee and the town's Board of assessors since 1985 Mike has proudly volunteered as a member of the chumford youth baseball board you can thank Mike for the superb condition of the chumford street fields as he is responsible for their cutting and ongoing maintenance so congratulations to Mike Donahue this year's Hometown hero now this Year's parade Marshall is Dave McLaughlin Dave is a longtime resident whose extensive finance and administrative executive management experience at gen Zim and skyworks has served chumford well on several important chumford boards and committees Dave's volunteer service includes 13 years as a town meeting representative as well as terms on the finance committee Personnel Board Industrial Development Committee Adams Library building committee the 2010 master plan and open space master plan committees and the 2017 Charter Review Committee but what Dave is most known for is his unprecedented 35 years continuous service on the town's Conservation Commission from 1989 to 2024 as the commission's chair for many of those years Dave was instrumental in guiding many generations of Volunteers in applying state and federal conservation regulations to maintain the Integrity of chelmsford's conservation lands during periods of extensive development the town will be forever grateful to Dave for his dedicated and selfless service in this most important area thank you very much thank you okay next up we have uh Evelyn Thoren who make the Arts and Technology education fund awards for this year good evening Evelyn Thoren chair of the Arts and Technology education fund um some people I mean I come before your board several times a year uh for those that may be in the listening audience that does know what the Arts technology education fund is uh it was established in 1996 George ripson and myself came before this board in January and the select board which was the board of selectman at the time approved to have it put on the warrant for the Springtown meeting and it was approved in April of 1996 and then the committee started their work we made our first awards in 1997 and it is to uh enhance and supplement the uh new and innovative ideas things that are creative for the Chums staff s for school staff and it doesn't go into their budget it doesn't become part of their budget it is definitely very separate and it has maintained that separateness over all of those years but one of the ways that we've made ourselves accountable is for me to get up and explain to you what we're doing and also the awards that we'll have this evening um I've listened to all the different thank yous for the graduation and then every time somebody gets in a wood oh I want to thank this person and that person well I have my own few thank yous that are here uh to thank the town accountant and the town Treasurer because they've been very Cooperative with anytime I need any financial information and of course we always have the support of the Town manager we have on our committee we have Kirk Marshall uh Carrie Mel Hannah barber Elizabeth Hasty Dr Lang by law he the superintendent of schools has to be part of this committee Teresa Evans candy Chase and then there's Beverly Barrett and myself who are the original uh leftovers of that committee from 1996 so we're we're still with the uh committee and still doing an awful lot of work it's very exciting to have the applications uh come in and to screen them uh and to discuss things with those particular applicants um this year one of the ways that we had received some funding that uh usually it's by a tax check off uh on your excise tax bill or your real estate tax bill uh this year the family of George ripsom he had passed in April had put it in that if people wanted to make donations in his memory they could and then they listed three different ones in the Arts and Technology education fund was one of those recipients and we did receive some money in memory of of uh George this year so if someone that's out there is looking at other opportunities to donate there are a lot of um committees in town there's other types of Charities that are in town that maybe your person was very much involed D with or had you know kind of a leaning towards and if Arts technology education fund is one of them we would welcome having any uh donations um we did have the town Treasurer let us know because a lot of people were out of town so we sent thank you notes to those individuals but generally we don't know who actually is donating it's all Anonymous donors uh we also have other programs in with the school system and we have worked collaboratively and cooperatively with the school system uh over all of these years so we have three awards that we will make this evening so the first one is Mary Ellen 40 um for fostering fine motor fun and that benefits the chips program we're going to take some pictures because we know we have the website we also have a Facebook page these different things thank you so much thank you very much the second one is Angela parks for walking pads uh this benefits the students at McCarthy middle school and the last one is to Lucas Miller for orchestra classroom instrument and equipment and this is for the McCarthy and Parker middle schools thank you very much that is the committee have any questions of me about ATF thank you so much for what you do for the ATF I'm sure it's we have a committee and they're working hard and people are you know spreading out all of the different responsibilities so that we actually we can get more information out to there to the general public so it's great to have such exuberance among some of our newer members too so thank you and congratulations to the award winners and thank again for all the support that we have from the town and for the remainder of our PSAs we will hear from ER so we have an announcement from the chumford health department about their free creative uh connections program it is there is registration required it's going to it's for Middle School aged Youth and their parent or Guardian on June 4th or June 18th from 6:30 to 7:30 p.m. at the chumford Center for the Arts and they will be creating a shared box or two individual boxes to be used for communication of needs gratitude well wishes Etc between parent guardian and teen cute and next we have an announcement from the town of chelsford about our Municipal open house uh this will be held at the for public library on June 12th from 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. and representatives from many boards and committees will be there to answer questions about what they do and how you can help and get involved in our municipal government we have another announcement from the chelsford Center for the Arts uh karaoke sober Edition is going to be held every second Friday of the month the admission is free and there are mocktails available for purchase and snacks and that's at 7: to 10 p.m. the chelmsford's diversity equity and inclusion committee is celebrating their fourth annual juneth event on June 22nd um from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. on chelmsford's toown common all are invited to join us in this commemoration of freedom and unity in the event of rain they will move to the chumford sener center at 75 Gren Road uh for more information you can contact the diversity equity and inclusion committee or Carly gream and we have an announcement from the chelsford open space and Recreation plan they are also holding an open house this is a drop in event where you can connect with people and organizations dedicated to enhancing our community's Outdoor Experience learn about their processes and how to stay involved through the project um there will be presentations and storytelling Open Mic activities for ages 1 to 100 Fun and food and this will be held on Thursday June 20th from 5: to 7:00 p.m. at the Chelmsford Senior Center and last but not least we have a proclamation in recognition of flag de today on June 14th 2024 whereas the national flag is a symbol of our great country Our Heritage and our place in the world whereas the Flag represents the highest ideals of individual liberty Justice and equal opportunity for all whereas the flag is a precious possession deserving the reverence and respect of all Americans whereas the citizens of Chelmsford recognize the flag as a living thing emblematic of our great nation now therefore we the chumford select board do hereby recognize Friday June 14th 2024 as Flag Day and demonstrate our support of the national flag at this ceremony today signed this third day of June 2024 that's for you both of them thank you and just a a note on on Flag Day uh there is a public ceremony every flag day at the Garrison house at 4 P.M uh anybody that wants to come and the uh 's a scout troop that comes and does a you know to run through of folding the flag and then unfolding the flag and raising the flag quite impressive so 400 p.m. at the Garrison house on Flag Day okay next up is uh public input part of the of the meeting if you have anything you'd like to chat with us about uh you have three minutes to do that so Mr razio you can kick us off my name is Paul razio six Technology Drive as you know I was here two weeks ago and in my haste I forgot I meant something important regarding the Parker school funding and again I'm here with my friend Brian Latina and again what I was here two weeks ago was recommending that we do the funding for the Parker School from free cash which I understand will be available this year and one thing that I forgot to mention is I do have a wared US article issue signed by over 25 people so to get my petition on the on the town meeting rep town meeting agenda for next this coming October so want to thank you and I will be presenting this tomorrow I guess at your office tomorrow Tuesday or Thursday Brian may want to add something okay thank you thank you um Brian Latina Precinct nine toown meeting rep and uh 15 Jess Ro is my address um I I'm supporting Paul razo's warant article that we we use the 1.8 some odd million um for the feasibility study for the Parker School rather than borrowing money for it I understand that we get paid back if we do move ahead with a a program and actually build a uh you know 300 or $400 million school but seems to me and and the rest of of uh folks that are in concerned about it that we don't need to add debt to the to the town and this would be a good way to um kind of hand back some of the money that the town has has now picked up from the state I know that couple years ago we picked up another $1.9 million that we've not seen before so this would be a way of actually funding it with current money on a current project so I I appreciate Paul coming forward with that um secondarily I different couple of other topics I'd like to say if I have enough time here um potholes on Turnpike Road couple of them are dangerous um we've gotten behind on that I understand that this is the time of year that we actually go and start uh replacing chunks of Road and prepping the road and that sort of thing so we don't have enough Personnel to take care of the normal potholes that pop up this time of year um there's there's several on on my street that I hit or or void swinging out across the yellow lines on a regular basis um when I worked at AGA Corporation we always had a meeting whenever we had a meeting we had Safety First conversations there are dangerous potholes in in our community um that need attention um there are trucks that actually um replace holes in the ground with pothole material some some advertise up to 100 um potholes per day can be repaired I don't know if the current technology is still supporting that but maybe it's something we should look into so our folks aren't standing on the highway in dangerous conditions um second uh topic or third topic I had was a Swain Road um Granite dust um question I know you're talking about that tonight I saw some paperwork on that um Granite um my understanding has a relatively High background radiation content alpha beta and gamma rays and and in this situation where we're crushing rocks that normally are pretty well contained um I'd like to have the board understand that we should probably do some air test water tests uh plants in the area there's residents near there um if Alpha radiation is Broken Out In Those rocks the dust gets in the air and you breathe it in that's the most dangerous kind of radiation to have in your lungs um if there's any cancer rates in that area it'd be interesting to um contain that I know the roads are very dusty there so I'm going to say that that's dust does come out um so lung cancer sampling uh water and and air would be be good and then final is uh ADA requirements we had some discussion about our planning uh board committee they don't look at the Ada at the beginning of projects they look at it at the very end and uh speaking just as myself and having handicap son I'd like to see the ADA requirements part of the planning board uh initial process so it's not so expensive at the other end project on the U the steakhouse down in the center was a good example where they did some changes that affect the ramp there so I'd like to see that at the front end rather than back end thank you okay thank you okay is there anyone else that would like to make any make any comments to the select board at this time and nobody on Zoom Paul no okay thank you okay we'll no go next to committee vacancies and while Aon is reading knows if Senator Barrett and representative Elliot want to come down and sit at the front of the room here uh we have the following committee vacancies as of June 3rd the uh bicycle and pedestrian advisory committee the Conservation Commission the commission on disabilities the Community Action Program committee the cultural Council the diversity equity and inclusion committee the historic district commission the holiday decorating committee the parade committee public records advisory committee uh Roberts field advisory committee and the recycling committee if you are interested in s serving on a Town border committee please complete an online application available on the town website or you can contact the town manager's office for more information thank you so next on our agenda is this evening is uh um one of our regular meetings that we have with our legislative delegation here in person we have Senator Mike Barrett and representative Rodney Elliott we have uh the staff member from representative Simon catalo on zoom and unfortunately representative Jim rasero could not make it this evening so um I know you've you've all received the note from from uh the to manager about what we wanted to discuss so let you start uh first so Senator Barrett if you want to start with some of the um topics that were on that list and you want to guide the list PA sure I mean or maybe the most timely thing of Representative ell would be the housing Bond bill that was released today uh and I know you filed an amendment to that so if you want to to sort of give an overview very good hey we was at 451 we try to stay on top of things go ahead sure I'm I'm happy to as uh as the manager alluded to uh this past Friday we received notice at about 3: p.m. did you move the microphone so they can hear you would know that by now forgive me um so this past Friday uh the House of Representatives received notice uh from the house clerk's office that this coming Wednesday the house will be deliberating and de debating the $4.2 billion housing Bond bill that this committee is is well aware of um many of the the the funding as well as uh policy um writers in this in this bill uh so uh today at about 12:00 we received notice that amendments will be allowed to be filed the deadline is was today at 4:58 uh so I have been working with house counsel all day um it was expected maybe it's it's usually the day before but that's fine um working on language relative to accessory dwelling units that I know both uh the city LOL um of which I represent as well as parts of uh the town of chumford have have some concerns uh so in Ence since um the the amendment that I filed relative to adus will uh uh the title is local option which essentially will put language corrective language I would say into uh and replace some of the existing language that will allow uh in this Bond bill um accessory dwelling units by right meaning uh those communities that have bylaws or ordinances such as the city of L uh will no longer apply to for uh to adus by special permit which is what the city of L has which is what the uh town of chumford has so that was filed today at uh just a little while ago and as you mentioned uh Mr manager will be taking up the housing Bond bill this coming Wednesday so there are many many amendments I don't know how many i' say well maybe maybe M Paul about 300 amendments to this Bond bill um some of them were Rel to adus uh but none of them included a local option where uh communities uh it will not be by right uh no one and by the way let me just State uh I'm not opposed to accessory dwelling units uh we have uh Provisions in L and for the as long as I have served I cannot recall uh the zoning board of appeals the regulatory board that provides and and administers a special permit to deny in fact I on on occasion I have gone to support adus and right in my neighborhood because of of the need but uh the compelling issue to me is all of those Associated issues with zoning uh I served a zoning chair uh on the l l City Council for many years where we have gone through a laborious process to put in place zoning codes zoning districts uh requirements that um allow us to uh maximize our housing and still provide all of the other amenities that uh whether it's parking um Etc that that residents have expressed their support for so that being said uh housing Bond Bill Wednesday uh I have filed that local option Amendment and uh I'm I hope I hope that it'll pass and I will I will be speaking on it so representative Elliot there in the in the language that um we received today from the before prior to your Amendment on the house um bonding Bill there was a specific statement that explicitly said um basically municipalities can't have a local option so your Amendment would replace that language that's correct okay thank you that's correct okay um I know by the way I have been in conversation with the mass Municipal Association Who U who supports um you know this local option or some other verions whether it's own occupied uh there were I believe there are two amendments on you know a provision that um own occup that a accessory dwelling units be owner occupied um I I understand that just I can just speak from our experience in the city of L and in my neighborhood in particular um it's it's challenging to enforce uh particularly I'll say in my district where I had the University of LOL where housing uh is is also a premium for students so um you know I I I can speak for a stand to occasions where U you know in-law apartments have been granted for on an in-law Bas basis and then next Generation decides they're not interested in the property and it sells and it becomes a two family so um which which is my concern and I also think that uh there should be local uh jurisdiction local oversight of of of of these types of decisions in neighborhoods okay um we did invite uh a member from the planning board to be here since this is also a very hot topic for them so Anita you had your hand raised for yeah I just had a a a question maybe if we can take a step back what is the purpose of this Adu language like what is the legislation trying what problem are you trying to solve I'll I'll weigh in a little but sure but no I'm sorry did you want to say something no um well it's part of the entire housing Bond bill it's to increase housing units across across the state similar to you know the MBTA zoning where um you know that law was adopted to increase and expand um affordable housing you know in those areas that have um uh MBTA access so you know folks that probably can't afford a car um or don't have access to a vehicle that housing is being developed uh along mass transit lines that's the word I was looking for Senator well well thank you representative Elliott for for taking such an interest in the in the legislation the Senate has yet first of all I want to thank everyone for having us um appreciate um your your inviting us from from time to time uh to report um to try to address address your question I I I I think everyone in general knows that there's significant housing problem in in Massachusetts um almost an insuperable one in other words there's no way to overcome the shortage absent something dramatic two or three dramatic steps um anything that stays close to the status quo won't do the job um none of our kids can afford to live in the communities in which we've raised them uh that's certainly true in my district I represent eight communities in all stretching from chelsford to the north North all the way down to Weston uh right on the Mass Pike quite a quite a cross-section of communities including Carlile and Bedford conquer and Lexington walam and Lincoln chelsford of course and Weston and uh everywhere you look uh housing has essentially gone Out Of Reach of young people I don't need to tell you folks that the newspapers are full of reports about people losing leaving Massachusetts on net um in large part because they can't afford to live here so to directly address your question there is no way to uh get more housing into the state if you leave it to local option to the degree that Massachusetts typically has because we have a track record of the last 50 years of local decisions we know what the trend is locally and everyone in our communities Works in good faith everyone tries to do uh make the best decisions they can by local priorities Regional priorities can't really be addressed uh by local government because the focus by Design is hyper local as local government should be so the governors come along and um suggested several dramatic things so that my kids can continue to live in Massachusetts and so that your kids can as well um I I do support the governor's position on Adu use um I do think they should be uh available as of right I don't see anywhere in my district real Alternatives uh to um addressing the housing question otherwise but I respect very much that people of Goodwill are going to differ about this I should mention that um there is polling data and uh well let me start by saying that I've heard from my constituents constituents in chumford and constituents throughout my district on adus they are in favor of the governor's position they're Property Owners so as you can imagine they want the additional flexibility uh for their properties uh and they um so far the mail we've gotten from across the district is pro um you Mass did release a poll today of the entire State overwhelmingly in favor of the governor's position 66% are either strongly in favor of Permitting adus as a right or somewhat favorable the number of folks who are opposed to adus as of right Statewide 9% 2% um dramatically opposed 7% somewhat opposed there are some folks in the middle about a quarter of the population but 66% of Massachusetts is in favor of these things because we don't have any other options every community in my district has a good reason and and I'm I'm not being uh I mean a good reason why they would love to help but cannot uh do this as a matter of right because they're concerned about having to build an additional school they're concerned about septic systems they're concerned about sewage everyone considered by themselves has a legitimate position the sum result though across Massachusetts is very little housing so we're we're forced because we failed we failed as a collection of 351 municipalities to somehow do the job one town or city at a time we've tried for a hundred years 50 years or so uh we've been focused on housing it hasn't worked um Charlie Baker Republican suggested the transportation oriented development thing Arrangement which was very controversial um uh morah Haley a Democrat has suggested adus as of right also very controversial neither one of them is interested in angering uh or disrespecting town government but local control of this particular Regional priority has failed and so all of us are against the wall I take seriously myself uh the fact that Massachusetts economy is at stake and and that the the economy will be seriously hurt if we lose young workers and we are losing them we're one of the oldest states of the 50 states in terms of average age or population young people just can't find a place to live adus uh the track record for them indicates that they are used very slowly theoretically there's a build out that one can always calculate for a given community that never happens most adus in the end there are special circumstances for college towns but most uh adus are used by family members the typical pattern as you all know is Mom and Dad uh grow older they become empty nesters they want to accommodate their kids and grandkids they add an Adu move into the smaller unit the kids move into the buy the larger unit and the grandkids have a place to go to school that's what really happens nothing close to the maximum buildout occurs so uh if I had good ideas uh better ideas um I would like to offer them because I can appreciate that this is disconcerting for people but my constituents including constituents in this town are for adus Town governments have serious misgivings Town's people tend to be supportive because it's their property that we're freeing up and they've got kids and grandkids who can't find places to live Senator Barrett so on balance thanks on balance I'm uh even though it's a tough one and I and I respect folks who may disagree with me but on balance uh I'm going to be with my constituents on this issue okay V in in our discussions I honestly don't think anyone um was opposed to the scenario that you laid out where families allow their children to come in and children can eventually move into the larger structure the parents can move in and our you know locally we allow that today and not as of right uhal special permit yeah so that's so but so so where the I think where the bigger concern comes in is when you're now allowed um when when the opportunity for adus becomes an opportunity for developers to maybe start buying out parts of neighborhoods and creating you know homes with adus or where uh a homeowner is now turning uh a home in a single family neighborhood into an investment property with an Adu that's now going to be rented out with a long-term lease that that's where the concern the the main concerns come from not at all in the scenario that that you laid out where it's you know families trying to help take care of their children and and in the future Generations well thank you I think you raised a good point I'm for ad us as is a matter of right uh but but when the amendment comes up to limit it to family members I think there may be constitutional problems to be honest with you uh but but when the amendment comes up to limit the family members I think that's going to be a healthy discussion in L of course it wouldn't work uh uh to representative Elliot's point because they've got a lot of kids uh college kids who need a place to live at the University of L so I think there may be there may be um instances where that doesn't work the key thing here and the planning the the LEL planning board's concern was also related to the size of the Lots in LEL not being able to sustain I think we can keep it related to chood we don't you know can I just do a okay let's let's wait and see if anybody else on this board has any anything to add to to this part of the discussion did you have are you finished um no but if Pat wants to interrupt me you can go ahead thank you very much okay does anybody else on the select board have anything to add to this discussion I'm just concerned about the number of people allowed in you know is there there a ceiling on the number of people you know can what's that two people three people five people you if you're in a college town you'll have to get five or six kids back you know well I don't know about the I'll let the family thing you know is of course what what we think about mostly and and there you would be talking typically about two parents and maybe two kids so that's that's for folks right there representative laot yeah is there is there anything in the in the uh in the law it just limits it to 900 square feet the accessory unit yeah it doesn't say that would limit occupany in some exent yeah I think that's right 900 are the smaller number if it's a smaller house or something uh okay no there there there's no limit on the number of individ individuals it's just it's maximized at 900 which is which is significant um I would be a concern of mine if for the town or anywhere else let me just say that the city of L went through an exhaustive process I can tell I I can't speak for well I can't speak for Chum because I think chumford is deliberating in a Sim F fashion and it continues there's a planning board meeting 21st relative to this so so but just to speak to La we went through an exhausted process for several years quite frankly and um you know the reason why zoning is complex is because land use is complex it's governed at the state level it's governed uh at the local level and you know coincidentally to speak to Senator Barrett's Point his constituents perhaps it it really feeds to support the reason why there should be a local option because if his if the constituents in his district support this then they can adop adop that by right they don't need a bylaw they don't need an ordinance which L and chumford has and so that really feeds into why I think there should be a local option some communities May favor it some communities not the city of L resignedly rejected it and this was again I'm repeating myself after an exhaustive process and I I know and and the college you know the college issue is that that's just one one one issue there are so many more and the issue of affordability um you know we went through a discussion during this process in LOL where if you look at the cost of construction for a 900 sqt Adu with a kitchenet and bathroom it's prohibitive to be affordable what you're going to have to invest as well as any potential rent that you may gain from that so it's really a misn do we want to help people that need yes we simply ask that this a permit process that you notify your neighbors that you satisfy requirements to comp to to you know to to be amenable to the neighborhood and your neighbors have a chance to come and speak I don't think that's asking too much if there are some communities that restrict it and they say no I I do understand the Senator's point and the governor's point however um I I think that's part of the process uh when it comes to zoning or quite frankly you know with anything so I don't think we want to turn this into a baate we can agree to disagree and we'll take a vote but by no means is my my Amendment for local option uh in opposition to adus because I do feel there is a need at the appropriate time in the appropriate place with with conditions that are regulated on the local level who in my opinion uh and no and no def difference to the state level knows how to administer uh administer best they we know the neighborhoods okay okay you if I could just make one thing then I do want to hear from I do want to hear from uh you if if you could you know I am the chair I'll so you know so I'll tell who can speak next so go ahead Senator Barrett well first of all thank you very much and I I I want to acknowledge that I would just say that this is not U adus are not an affordable housing initiative they are a house in initiative the uh it this is not being advertised any more than Transportation oriented development was as a measure to encourage affordable housing this is a measure to house your kids and your grandkids and presumably they're going to pay in many cases a market rate for the square footage involved or more likely uh Grandma and Grandpa are going to move into the unit and I and and sell the larger unit to their family members so so this is about this is about increasing the total number of housing units in Massachusetts some of the stuff will be affordable but this is not this is not um federally subsidized um income eligible affordable housing and and of course as we know it's not public housing as we understand the term and because that's the province of housing authorities locally this is market rate housing we need more units and as a practical matter of single family home zoning in the suburbs has made it impossible now for our kids and grandkids to find places to live and that's been true increasingly as I say for a half century but now it's reached the point where we're losing population and other states are gaining it if we lose our young workers there aren't going to be any restaurants you know how it works there aren't going to be any service employees uh we're going to have a lot of retirees struggling uh and not enough folks to uh provide us our health care provide us our Public Safety provide us our our teaching in our local schools so we need young blood it's not an affordable housing thing I apologize Madam chair for going on and I and I do look forward to hearing from the from the board okay and and I do too and and I do want to make it clear we're not here to go back and forth we're here to give our opinions to the representa the the legislative delegation and for them to tell us how they feel about it we don't need to have a back and forth um but I do want to hear from the other members of the board pad I think you started to say something yeah um I guess I'll respond basically to your comments just now um so if this is truly about my children being able to live in this town then what's what's the problem with a local option it's not just your kids it's also the kids who live in Carlile and the kids who live in Bedford I mean or the L I mean obviously we're a region and and as parents we all want to stay close to our families and such like that but um but I see this you know I I recall back to the early days of FY B you know and I think back to the cost of properties and and you know I mean if I'm a 40b developer the more that property costs the better off it is because I increase my profit margins um not saying that this is necessarily heading that way but there's there's a myriad of things that are going to develop out of a program like this that is going to be negatives and to sit here and say that local governance has not done their job in the past 50 years or 100 years I mean when you're trying to protect your community and all the rights that go with it is um is a little disturbing so um you know if it's not about affordability and it's really just about housing units why aren't we giving tax breaks to all these office empty Office Buildings throughout the city of Boston and Burlington and chelsford and other places like that and I just don't think that laying it on the the the backsides of local Community Homeowners is the way to go about fixing the housing crisis I don't deny there's a housing crisis in Massachusetts and everywhere else in this country this is not the way to go about it okay Aon any comments yeah um I I kind of agree with with um a lot of the things that Pat said um um you know I the affordable housing conversation in general I I grew up in a three Decker in wer right my parents were kind of the American dream like they wanted to have kids they bought a three Decker because that's all they could afford they used the rental income to eventually buy a single family um and I grew up they at one point owned a few in Wester and I watched them rent them out at one point I rented them out for them in my 20s you know I followed the rental market for years um I was a real estate agent for a brief period I mean I I have some experience here and I these conversations are really hard the affordable housing conversation um you know I think chelsford and other towns around us also are seeing things happen like you we have a 400 apartment complex going in um 50 of those units will be affordable right but that means there are 350 of them that are really unaffordable I mean three-bedroom units are $4,300 a month is the market price um I don't know who can afford that um and you know when one of those buildings goes in people like my father in their little with their two families or their three families or whatever look at that and say well if they're renting a three-bedroom apartment for $ 4300 a month and I'm only charging $1,500 I'm going to up my rent you know so the rent goes up everywhere because of that um and all those adus that you're talking about they will do the same thing those people that have an Adu on their house that they can rent to non-family members when the rents go up their rent goes up too and I'm sorry $2,600 a month for a one-bedroom Studio which is the market rate that's given by the state is my impression is not affordable and you're talking about your kids and college kids that need places to live and a college kid paying $2,600 a month for a studio apartment does not put them ahead in life it keeps them poor and it keeps them from creating a down payment for their own property which is the biggest the biggest hurdle to a home ownership Right is coming up with that down payment people that are spending that much money on rent every month can never come up with a down payment um so you know I just think it's a it's a little bit of a cat chasing their tail um for for young people for um for Middle inome families there is no there are no good options and for every 50 affordable units that you create for the tons thousands of people that are on the waiting list that are going to be on the waiting list for 5 or eight years there are 350 that are created that are completely unaffordable um and I just don't I don't know that the the benefits outweigh the costs not only to the town and we talked about the pressures that it creates on the town but to kind of some of those middle inome earners and to the young people who don't qualify for affordable housing and then can't afford anything because the market rate is what it is um and frankly I don't maybe you can c find this I don't really understand why the market rate is what it is I don't know what the data is where that data is coming from I know that there are Apartments renting in Worster still for $1,500 a month for three bedrooms so the market rate being 4,300 from the state database seems incredible to me particularly in a town like chumford which is not wster I mean we are a much smaller municipality so I don't it's it's I I'll ask the chair if I can say something but it's up to you sure if could keep it brief sure so actually I'm I have Wester roots myself uh um and um so I I hear you in terms of where you're coming from and I have two 34 year- old twins uh one of whom rents one of whom uh purchased the house recently in Malden Massachusetts With a Little Help from her parents so I I hear you um but it is a matter of supply and demand the only way to bring down those average costs because the the state rate isn't set by the state it's just a survey of private transactions the only way to bring down the cost of those private transactions is unfortunately to increase Supply or to see demand drop because nobody wants to live here if that's the choice then I'm committed to increasing Supply can can I but does it ever occur at the state level that some of these processes some of the potentially negative consequences that could come out of setting that market rate that high is that you are Market we don't set the rate there is no setting of the rate it's private transactions that average out very high there is no rate set by the state and and I I'm I'm concerned to correct that that misimpression okay Virginia first just um again I I want to say that philosophically I agree with everything you said about taking care of our families and Our Generations I think I'd ask you to understand too that the letter that this board provided to our legislators and that our planning board provided to our legislators is representative of feedback that we're getting from our constituents here in Chelmsford it's not us just acting out on our own and I would really ask that as this bill progresses through the legislature that you keep a very careful eye on the language so that the end result isn't that it becomes a Heyday for developers and a Heyday to ruin single family neighborhoods and a Heyday to overpopulate very small Lots so that that's my request that if the intention is to take care of families and generations let's make sure that that's how the language is written and that it's not opening up bigger doors that I think could really be disastrous a good point thank you and I think representative Elliott and I would agree that you're making a good point there that it's not just a streak for that so I've got serious concerns about this I don't think you're solving your problem here at all I don't think adding adus is going to solve our housing crisis in fact I think it's going to make it worse I think it's going to make affordability worse and let me tell you why first of all the reason why our prices of houses and rentals are through the roof first all our jobs are in Boston and in 28 so that makes the demand for Boston the seport district and all those communities that are within 15 miles the demand is high you want you want housing and affordability to be more reasonable and have our kids live here the state needs to stop being planning board and start focusing on driving businesses up to low out to Lawrence out to wer plenty of room in wer for development we used to have man ufacturing that left if you remember when Wang was here we used to get everyone from nashor coming down we got the we charged them income taxes and we didn't have to put in the infrastructure it was a win-win we didn't have to school send their kids to school but we got to charge them in taxes same with Lawrence now we focus in the last 30 40 years we focused on Boston the seaport district and that's and the seport district is beautiful we've done done a phenomenal job absolutely great but guess what getting from chumford to work in Boston cuz I've done it my entire life 25 years ago a normal commute from East Chumps so I get on on Treble Cove Road and B Rea as opposed to other people in North CHP it would take now I'm talking 25 years ago would take me under an hour to get to The Back Bay 101 hunting TNA now if I want to do that same commute on a good day it takes an hour and 20 minutes wow right and most normal days it will take you an hour and 45 minutes now I live in East Chumps you might as well say I live in B Raa cuz I get on in trouble Cove anyone else in chumford who lives like even chumford Center close to North chumford you're adding another half hour so you can add all the housing you want your kids are not going to stay here if they have to drive two hours each way to get to work the reason why our housing prices are through the roof is because other communities like Lexington conquer Lincoln Dover carel they have no F so houses can a developer can go in and build a MC mansion and why wouldn't they because for incremental costs they get tripled the margin back CH hasn't done that in fact we've encouraged duplexes we've encourage so most of our development I can walk you through our RC unit right outside this window how many we've converted from single family to to duplexes because we've encouraged that and we've done that and that's why trumpster prices our home prices have remained relatively low compared to the other communities so if you want to fix this and encourage it there are ways to do it all this does and this and you can sugarcoat this put a bow on it and tell me oh it's for generational living oh it's for this or that that's not what this is this is for developers the way this bill is written today and what you're trying to do I disagree will only help developers believe me uh and I think representative Elliott would back me up this has not been written for developers okay well then you need to need to go through it with someone with a financial background and really think many of us have Financial really think about it because an individual a young couple who wants to get a home and say okay let me go and build an Adu well their interest rates are a lot higher to borrow for that construction loan than a developer so how the hell are they ever going to outbid a developer they won't so when someone's looking of like hey Mom and Dad why don't we all go together and we can buy a house and then we can build a 900 square foot Adu unit and we can all live together and we can live generational let's go do them we go to bid guess what guess who's going to get out bid they'll get out bid so you've got the way this is written you the developer is the only one that's going going to win here so I ask you to really scrub this and really think about how this is written because that is what is going to happen you've also had 40b for 40 years has that worked do we have affordable housing no so we have more than if we didn't have that law really cuz how many how many towns are compliant in Massachusetts all my D I represent eight communities the majority of my towns comply they've met their 10% we're talking about Lexington conquer Lincoln Weston um Bedford have all met their 10% so yes it's been a very unpopular law nobody loves it but it's it's worked adus will work too but it will remain unpopular I predict uh if it becomes law it will both do the job and cause a lot of stress for you guys don't get me wrong this is hard this is hard I I to your point you can't sugarcoat it but if we had easier ways the jobs are in Greater Boston we built we built a I was around when we built route three uh widened it I was around when we built 495 in order to make sure the jobs weren't centered in Boston but the market is something that state government doesn't run really it doesn't control because then I suggest you look at the country of Australia so the problem is okay if we could if we could kind of put a stop to this but I can give you examples of how government can incentivize businesses to go out and I'm happy and I and I really the private Market though is par okay that's that's that's enough I just want to bring up please stop I just want to bring up some points on the density because you mentioned Lincoln um carel you mentioned conquered I believe um so the other other issue I want to mention is regarding density first of all affordable 40b I'm consider you know me and my husband both work we make very high incomes people would put us at the very top I still can't afford to live in Lexington I can't afford to live in Lincoln so the 40b really hasn't worked um because affordable is not affordable for me in this hand however when you look at towns in density per square mile of how many housing why are we focusing on communities that are not dense like instead of just making this blanket across the state and again I think this kind of goes to um the option local option this is why again I don't think what you're trying like I understand your your what you're trying to do and I appreciate what you're trying to accomplish but this is my fear of it you're going down a path that can really turn ugly for the citizens of the state and I while you're trying to fix one problem you may be causing a lot of other problems there are areas that are very close to Boston carel Dober Lincoln Weston conquered who have extremely low density they have a lot of extra open space so if again if we want to lower and increase density and increase houses then let's do it strategically and I'm not pointing them out because you know oh Lexington or or Lincoln you you know you and not me I'm not trying to do that by any mean but when you look at this you need to look it holistically and look at the quality of life okay Anita thank you everybody's made their point I think we're starting to make our points over and over again we know how they feel they know how we feel very clearly Madam chair do you have anything to add add anything I didn't want to take up time from anyone else you should you should also yeah I mean I I I agree I mean it's in in theory it would be good if it could generate some more affordable housing some Market even market rate housing but I think it the way it's written it needs some adjustment it needs more study that's just my opinion and I think you know the areas I'm not going to say them again you know what they are very clearly um did just are you done okay I know you were you want to interrupt mey trying to interrupt you P I thought you were done I was raising my hand sorry go ahead Paul I was raising my hand um no I think I think one of the disappointing things when I read the bill today and this is a different tangent I'm not because I don't want to get repetitive this you said representative you know there was a $4 billion doll Bill the two billion of it is to expand the MW down to the Southshore into the ipwi ipswitch river valley it didn't expand it up to chelsford or this area and I think that's very frustrating because the apparently the and I'll just say what it is the speaker has a pet project in Waymouth okay and therefore in the legislation the funding provided the expansion of the MW to that project in that area ANW as the epwi area left out this area of the state which was originally part of what was called for the expansion so we didn't just dream this up and then again it they chose to fund the water option not the sewer option so again Chums and other communities are going to bear the cost to expand the MD expansion in the future because I expect it'll pass the house perhaps the Senate and signed by the governor so the generation ahead is going to fund the expansion of the MW a network to the Southshore to the iwi area meanwhile chid sits here can't do anything because we don't have the sewer but yet we're going to somehow have to deal with the MW uh lack of resources to our community but yet not having the sewer capacity we're going to have to deal with the adus but not have the sewer infrastructure to address the housing needs and other Economic Development needs of the community and I just think it's just blatantly unfair because it didn't say we're going to fund utility expansion it it said we're going to fund what it says it's going to fund and it left chelwood and other communities at the curb without anything for addressing the sewer infrastructure which as you know is a valid it's not an excuse It's a valid reality because it not only affects shamson it affects LOL it affects uh Tings it affects drit and in tuxbury and and it's just baffling I shouldn't say baffling it's just disappointing to see the the infrastructure needs of chelsford in terms of the sewer issue left on the side of the road um in this effort of funding and with with again and it's just I don't know how to explain it other than than what I read and what the speaker has said is basically he really wants to fund this the re reexamination of the South woth Air Base uh and and that that's really a priority um and I just think it's again you wonder why people get upset uh it's because of this lack of a Level Playing Field um and I just think that's a real real issue um and we know that the low Wastewater Plant has been over capacity twice in the last six years so we know it's not a fiction we also know that the city as un know representative has a consent order to address sewer infrastructure because we're dumping millions of gallons of rust sewage into the river but again no no means to address the sewer reality of the greater low area Mr manager you're speaking to the choir um this is the third consent decree that the city L lives under and I couldn't I couldn't agree more when it comes to infrastructure um and and the need and the funding need uh but just to speak to your point and and and you know that's it's also a federal issue uh but this ex I understand your point with you know with this Bond Bill and and funding for the MW but um Madame chair just to speak to you to this point I I don't disagree but there will be no more studies this vote on Wednesday will either determine whether their adus are going to be allowed by right um or if my local option Amendment passes communities will continue to have the right to evaluate and issue a special permit I I don't think that's unreasonable you know um adus are not going to solve the the housing crisis and I I do think that it's it's quite interesting where um you know Senator Barrett his point mentions we have people leaving the state yet we continue to have an affordable housing crisis there's a crisis because people want to stay here because there's an excellent education system our neighboring states or other across the nation to not provide the services that we provide and whether whether it's K through 12 or higher education there was a labor pool here there are jobs companies I can tell you they're going to the seaport they're going to Kendall Square they're going 128 they're coming to LEL as well because there was a labor pool so you know there's been a housing a need for housing 200,000 housing units for a long time I just ask in my amendment to allow that the local municipalities have some control cuz whether it's developers or individuals it will be a free-for-all LOL is 13.4 square miles we have 115,000 people living there there are 25,000 units I sit on the low Housing Authority there is a waiting list of 6,000 people we have 5,100 uh public housing units in Section 8 we are doing all that we can however there will be develop Vel opers that will come in and whether it's for education or to make money or just through generational change over this needs to be regulated in my opinion maybe not in some of the other communities that haven't adopted this and whether it's chapter 40b we have exceeded we didn't just say oh we hit our 10 and we're done we keep developing our affordable housing we adopted the MBTA zoning because we know we want to help people and we can however adus is is not good for the communities that I represent there needs to be regulatory oversight I and and I'll finish with this when we started talking about adus um it it was a discussion throughout the city and quite frankly most residents perhaps even to this day until it directly affects them until there is a notice that they receive as in abata really don't understand a accessory accessory dwelling units you can ask so you know those folks I and I appreciate the information on polling data if they say yeah of course we want to help we want to be in favor of in-laws or helping our kids absolutely however the long-term effect in and I'll just say very densely populated unit uh areas or others is is going to be significant because the intended the intended consequence will be I would say kind of unintended consequence will be um but there's no regul regulatory oversight um it I just don't think it's a good thing that's the reason why if the local option okay I I I think we have beat this topic to death quite frankly um we've been here like 45 minutes already we have many other things on our list we wanted to talk about I think some of them will get through a little bit in a little bit more pleasant manner I hope than what we have just experienced so if anybody has a last word but it has to be last say last you should you should take credit and acknowledge the amendment you f you you representative catalo and representative RC filed for the chood Housing Authority yeah before we leave this because I think it's you know good news yeah yeah go ahead go ahead well um we filed an amend for 6.5 million um in this Bond Bill to provide um funding for the units on Smith Street basically the Housing Authority just to let people know watching this that David Edison the CHC Housing Authority the units at one Smith Street right at you know um the intersection are are at at the end of useful life they're basically obsolete they cannot be renovated there's 64 senior um housing units there David Hedison has a project that's $ 43.5 million um to move forward um he'll be appearing before the CPC in two weeks um to requests funding from the community preservation fund as seed money for that project uh which would then go to fall town meeting but in addition when the bill came out today Kyle stapleton's on the line from on the zoom from representative Cataldo's office they reached out and said is there something available for the town in terms of the amendments to the housing Bond bill that's beneficial and significant and realistic and I said well buy chance let me f with you David hedon's presentation that is going to the community preservation committee um and and and basically as as representative noted they had like a few hours to get this in this afternoon uh and so they've submitted an amendment um of one of the 300 amendments to the bill to provide funding to support that project so again the end of the day would be 64 deteriorated units uh that are two you know twostory that you see at the corner of of uh stemman and and Smith Street those will be raised and then they be repl with three three story units of 96 units again which would add um obviously additional units and it was also because of the legislator's efforts that would actually be a 40b project um be because housing the Housing Authority would transfer the units to its nonprofit affiliate So Not only would it add the units but also would it would increase the town's capacity under 40b because we as you know we're right at the cost of the 10% um so again I just want to give the opportunity to recognize um representative catalo and did did Mr Stapleton want to make is there anything you want to add to that Kyle yeah no I just want to thank you Mr Town manager for uh taking my call at the 11th Hour there and providing us with that information um we're definitely hopeful that we can get that through and we'll definitely provide the board with any updates uh after the vote on Wednesday as to where that funding stands okay thank you just I just want to thank the board I I well we're not letting you go yet oh okay was one topic well let me just say that I I I do appreciate the frankness of the conversation we've just had uh people can disagree but do so agreeably and and I I hear you all um I do want to reiterate that my constituents are supportive of the governor's position but but I hear you guys too and um it's one thing that people can U disagree about without becoming disagreeable right and I and I'm really doing my heartest to wrap this topic up and move on to the next one can I go you can go is that what you mean go yes can I go yes well thank you and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity so I'm gonna run out of here okay so there is I think uh since we're talking about specific legislation uh representative Elliott there were some U bills that you had filed on behalf of the Town um one of which I I think would just passed the legislature today um about the deputy fire chief not being under Civil Service anymore so thank you for doing that we hope the governor signs that if you want to speak to the other well now it goes to the Senate no Senate enacted the Senate enacted Governor give me some credit you might I don't know if senator's press for time he has more communities than I do so oh okay if if you want to go ahead we we are pleased that we got that uh that buil through okay we'll try to keep this to another you know 10 or 15 minutes we don't too late thank sure I I can be brief on um on on two items that were on the agenda East Richardson Road which coincidentally today I met with NE ncog uh relative to and they have a public hearing Wednesday night Madam chair I know you participate um to have that uh that intersection of East Richardson Road and um 3A or Princeton Boulevard evaluated for hopefully a traffic study of some even if it's a traffic count um etc etc um will say that the the um the tip for vinyl square um as you know is is part of it will be funded I believe 2026 if my memory serves me correctly I it's a little later than that but that's close I thought they I I thought it was a little bit later and I stood cor I think that might be the ad date maybe the 26 and then 27 possibly constructed but anyway so that is uh that's still positive news and I mean we know that the sidewalk is under construction I know I saw some emails about that as well um ledge Road ledge road is um is still in the committee on Transportation it's one of four bills that there was re request from the chair to um be able to to hold on to and not report out until July 1st I'm keeping my fingers crossed I hope that's that's a positive sign uh because as we know bills are reported out um correct me Senator first first week March so there's a reason why in my opinion and I've I've reached out to the chair to uh you know to to issue hopefully issue a favorable reporting so it's um it's still it's still in the committee uh so th those are the Bills any other uh we had we bills I wanted to bring up too about the environmental type issues you know the the expanded bottle bill um the deposit on that um maybe about nips um things like that any I the Senate May well uh try to expand the bottle Bill and and we did hear you thank you for being in touch uh on the nips issue so I've I have drafted Lang I I do climate policy for the state senate and um I I took a personal interest in making sure that there'd be an expanded bottle Bill essentially more containers covered pop the nickel up to a dime but we made sure to Define beverage so that it would Encompass the small containers nips which which uh around uh certain areas especially around package stores tend to be real problems right and and I know there are several communities that that have ban them individually um but that's you know it it's kind of ironic that there are some issues that the state wants to take overall control of then it's some they want to push back to the to the Comm well this one I agree with you that uh that there ought to be a a Statewide incentive basically to keep nips uh off the ground and so they don't constitute litter and and we're doing our best I can't predict how the Senate's going to go the bottle bill doesn't have a lot of legs in general it um it lost a referendum in 2012 I think that's was a long time ago so I think uh I think we ought to take another run at it but that has been a an obstacle that the bottle bill has had to overcome um 14 years I think we should give the public another opportunity to express its will I have a lot of support in my district including in this town for an expanded bot Bill okay yeah I would definitely yeah expect that to be the case uh yeah we we try to do any effort you know any initiative we is terrific on environmental and open space issues in general including including on the bottle mhm yeah okay um is there anything else anybody want us wanted last one was the underground utilities oh yeah the underground utilities yeah our favorite topic yeah this is this is sort of a 30-year Saga the the the town aggressively meaning they they adhered to state law passed local bylaws and we're able to fund the first phase of the underground utility project around the town com yes right sure the problem with it is the legislative is antiquated because the funding source for Verizon is landline revenues is what landline Verizon landline revenues so we're we're styed we have $3 million in National Grid Monies to proceed and National Grid will proceed with the project through bring it through the center of town you know um towards the library if you if you would to go from here um however National Grid will not proceed because National Grid receives would re has re would receive less than about less than $75,000 per year for what's a multi-million dollar investment and so the problem is we're styed because National Grid I sorry National Grid will proceed Verizon has basically shut off the project because they don't see the economic return oh so so it's Verizon that get enough money I'm sorry yeah Verizon doesn't have enough money national g GD fine in fact we shut off the raid payers because we had over 3 million in the account the problem is Verizon cannot proceed because the fund Source in the state law which is dated obviously it was enacted prior to wireless phones right is is a pittance and so that's why we're styed and we don't know how to get around that that that that roadblock other than Verizon saying to the town we'll come up with another here's what Verizon could do uh the name of this committee that I chair is telecommunications utilities and energy and there's a obscure reason that has to do with Congress actually why Telecommunications and utility Electric and Gas Utilities are in one group that's true at the national level also Verizon could file legislation but hasn't uh if the problem is somehow that it's prevented by virtue of state law from recovering its costs the way utilities can recover their costs which is to say by charging us uh Verizon could submit legislation which would effectively U give it additional Revenue sources committable to projects like like chelsford Center but Verizon has not submitted legislation I would have seen it it would have come before my committee I would have been extremely because I would have heard from you Paul I would have been extremely interested in it the utilities are very AG eversource of National Grid and unitel are before us with legislative Provisions all the time Verizon not so much and uh we can't do anything if no one asks us to do something Verizon has not asked us to change their revenue picture um and uh I would I would be interested in hearing from the utility from Verizon in this case so that we could we could get these cables underground so so they would have to submit it basically on behalf of us it could be somebody in chelsford it could be it could be business it could be citizens it could be municipal government some has to come up with a with a a formula that would permit Verizon to finance this project now all these companies recover it from their customers so it's not it's not magic money um ultimately we pay but Verizon has not come forward with a with a proposal so I have nothing to go on I don't have the capacity to figure out Verizon's funding and financial challenges for it that's that's something that would have to come from massach from the public at large and then we would evaluate what was proposed to us okay I mean that might be an option we could take um I don't know how we would know their funding sources either maybe from the Department of Public Utilities would they be able to no Verizon knows this business they have 10 times St but they have to want to do it and why would they want to do it it's not beneficial to them to do it well that's that may be the problem it's not it's not that the state holding them back it's that they don't want to do it yes or we can't help we can't help Verizon decide that yeah but they would they would recover all of these funds in one way or another right but but but but the state holds the law that that allows the recovery and it comes only from landlines and that's where the law is dated I'm saying no one's come to me and asked to change that law okay I suspect that they know what they're doing they haven't come to us for a reason it's not up to the state government it's up to people petition ing their legislature for Relief and for a change and they haven't petitioned the legislature for Relief and for a change but you're saying we can petition the legislature to enfor you just need to have a lawyer to well first of all you need somebody who knows finances in this area to say aha this is the key that would unlock um the financing so that we could get these cables underground so you need someone shrewd enough about cable financing and telephone financing to propos the change and then my committee could take a look at it we would hear we would get testimony from chelsford officials we would get testimony from residents hear from other people around the state but no one's come to us and asked for uh a change of state law and I would need to I would need to hear from someone who had an idea okay so we need to come up with an idea all right we'll work on that thank you excellent okay is there anything else anybody would like to bring up in the next two or three minutes I would just say do they have anything they want to like you you've got two months left in session what do you foresee or what are you excited about in terms of what may come out in the next two months I mean give you a chance to well I think there's going to be a a housing Bill one hopes of some kind leaving aside the question of the contents I hope there's going to be an economic development bill right that that would uh focus on moving businesses I I take the point of our of our neighbor here all the business growth should not be in Kendall Square and the seaport it should be out on 495 so uh Economic Development Bill half of it is is actually is a clean technology Green Technology lots of jobs UMass low is going gang busters in terms of the research now we need to get the money into the hands of startups in Greater low of which there are many uh so we'd like to see I'd like to see the economic development bill with the funding for climate Tech included another billion dollars is for Life Sciences to renew uh life sciences which is a critical piece again very important to this area I would I want to see a climate Bill uh it is likely that we're going to see a major um climate Bill we've seen uh the major bills in the last two sessions this time the focus is on funding electric power infrastructure right because we need to completely redo the grid the wires ideally some of them underground uh both to take electrons away from solar panels on roofs but also to deliver it to heat pumps and to EV Chargers you've got to remake the entire electric wiring system or we're not going to avert climate change so this is the governor's Focus uh I think it's enormous interest to the house and to the Senate and even in the 60 days we have left I believe we will get through another major climate Bill okay well we looking forward to that Municipal empowerment Act is you think this the problem is you're running out of time and I problem is you're running out of time I mean throw in some you know Senator described the major bills I mean there's there's there's a um you know other bills whether it's you know we've got to finish hospital and Healthcare uh reform that that the host passed uh and then we've got to squeeze in the FY 25 budget at some point in time that would be nice that would be nice so I think it will be a very we're running out of time but um I think we have some some long days um that we that will be in session and rightfully so and yeah well we definitely appreciate you coming um excuse me Pat we usually just talk about the next one oh I was going to say we get in touch with them's office has any anything to add on the next six weeks eight weeks nothing else to cover I think um covered all the all the bases there yes so we will be back in touch in a few months to set something up probably early November I really app appreciate these sessions and so thank you for having us it was a great discussion appreciate it thank you very much and and thank you for for the ear marks and everything else you do to support the community yeah let's hear it for those ear marks want to talk about those we we really do appreciate it thanks for your time thank you thank you all right next up is reports and presentations ver is fire chief Ryan to talk about past free firefighting equipment thank you madam chair good evening good evening board members good evening Mr manager hope everyone is doing well uh and thank you for allowing me the opportunity to come before the board to talk about firi to turnout gear hopefully this is a less controversial topic certainly I think we'll do it quicker um I believe the last time I was here May 6 um Weston and Samson was doing an update a presentation on past for 54 Richardson Road in uh Weston and Samson's engineer Paul McKinley was describing p and how prevalent p is in everyday items that also includes firefighter turnout GE unfortunately um and up until now you know so the very gear that is designed to protect our members unfortunately is also exposing them to to the p but up until now we did not have a viable alternative um so recently our vendor Northeast rescue approached us the department the unions health and safety committee with a different option a past free option um I have sent the quote from Northeast rescue for this past Fe free gear um the union I believe has sent a letter of support so my thanks to them for looking at the gear um so what I am respectfully requesting is to fund one set of this gear for each of our members 61 members for a total cost of 22,6 188 in the submitt that I provided you have the quote and is a cut sheet as well with the floral surfacant removed from the liner the interior liner of the P of the gear and I will try to answer any questions you may have I have a few questions sure so how how long will this gear what's its useful life so the gear under the codes we typically try to replace gear turnout gear every 10 years so it's expected that this would last 10 years the PS free also right now yes but as I say this the NAA is doing a major revision and they may I don't know this but they may take that 10 years and cut it down that's something being contemplated okay so by right now the standard is 10 years that is something we are trying to um we actually been pretty effective of changing the gear out every 10 years okay and and how is it clean is it clean like your your gear that you use now correct same process okay and uh and how long would if if we were to approve this how long would it take before you would get the gear any if you were to approve it we would call the vendor in and it's getting a little difficult because the summer months are coming up um but they will come in quickly they will s all of our members um once everybody is sized it's my understanding will be up to8 weeks before we'll see the gear okay so could be within a couple months correct thereabouts okay anybody else have questions Gary so the so the P exposure comes from chemicals that the firefighters are exposed to Y along the way and these this gear is is made to resist that or protect the men better it's because repell instead of buil in the current gear has p in it does it it does that is correct because of repellent it's also you rain gear and other things and okay yeah that that answers my question I just just to give a perspective normally a request like this we you know we would consider with other requests fall town meeting and so forth this is such a health concern that when Gary when Chief Ryan that made me aware that this was available um we we had them come as soon as possible and the only immediate funding source that we have is the arpa funds and speaking to Christine Clancy who you know reports monthly on this she believes at this point as result of the additional bidding uh some which will come tonight we probably have now upward to about $800,000 available so if you were to fund this 250 we're still in a very comfortable position um you know to close out what we have as well as to consider other projects that we talked about at our previous meeting um later this summer uh again it was really the extraordinary health issue with this in terms of the pest um that is what brought us to you know to to hear tonight for this special consideration um and I just you know I to me you know if we can avoid six more months of exposure um to them then the better it is uh and therefore I just think it warrants a sort of the exceptional consideration uh that's why we're here this evening so Paul when you reference the arpa funds the coming up on the the bid Awards the Pendleton Road stream cleaning we had 240 allocated to that and the bid is 105 so is that like 135 we we get back exactly okay so that's not just a part for part of the project and then Chief I just had a so I I guess I missed 61 cuz it said 52 firefighters seven captains 52 firefighters seven captain line Chief officers um so that's like roughly 41 4200 per firefighter for gear I was just curious how does that how does that compare to what we pay to for gear so the so in front of me the quote so the uh the jacket is over 2,000 it's actually more expensive for the I just took 252 688 and divide it by 61 yeah so it's a little more expensive for actually it's more expensive for the um everybody else cuz they with the black jackets the white jackets that the chief and the deputy chief are a little cheaper so that's just 2200 they're 2300 and the we all wear the same pants black sometime different Stripes those are 1,800 so that's the breakout so how do it compared to the conven oh it compares to conven yes to answer your question yes it is a little more expensive okay yes did you say are we nearing what's the lifespan for the conventional uniforms so the for the turnout gear we keep them for 10 years we have are weing do we normally buy them all once we we normally have two sets because you want to have a backup set and an alternate set but do we normally is this like in every 10 years we buy a whole new so we're coming up to the end of a 10 years so we back whether it's Grant funds or Capital back in 2015 yeah so we're actually coming up to most of the department would have to get replaced so we're actually going to be doing it probably I didn't know if it was something that was kind of happening on a rolling cycle somebody was hired two years ago so there are some because they get hired so there there is some gaps in there there's it it generally speaking every 10 years comes majority of the department is coming up next year yeah okay so there are some that are staggered okay are there any other questions um I think this is a good use of the Opera funds I don't know anybody else feels about that I would be I would be fine with approving it this evening you know given the that we still do have some y some flexibility left on on those funds before the end of the year so I like it we need a motion yeah we need a motion oh okay oh goodness okay I wasn't ready I will make a motion to approve the chief Ryan's request for past free turnout gear as presented with the funding source with the funding coming from the arpa monies second okay we have a motion and a second all in favor okay thank you certainly on behalf of the CHC firefighters the fire I'm very happy very thankful thank you to the Tom man when I went to uh discuss this with him I was thinking more towards the fall towards Capital so I am very thankful that you made this happen thank you Bill than you yeah that's an easy one okay next on our agenda is the Conservation Commission uh Warren po uh conservation restriction we are going to defer that uh uh agenda top to our next meeting is they've discovered they had a few minor adjustments they need to make to that um that document so we moove right on to Tom manager bit Awards yeah thank you madam chair members of the board I have four procurement uh Awards all pertaining to public works tonight uh although it's three documents there four Awards the first one is from Chon Public Schools electrification road map study um may recall this was an ear Mark uh that was provided um to because it kept getting the repeated lightning strikes um and so the The Proposal was bid The Proposal that was received was from in Huck's LLC um with an amount not to exceed $75,000 which which uh conforms to the um funding for this project so that's the first one do you want me to do them all or do you want to do individually what what's the preference mam chair anybody have a preference um I guess I'm okay with doing them all at once the next one was for the shord High School kitchen improvements o owners project manager Services um this this is um is basically the town's res designation person on site to oversee that construction project it's required um This was um is is uh was bid by a request for proposals where the uh DPW evaluation committee reviewed the qualifications of the biders the biders know the project amount for for the um site work that's going to take place with the kitchen improvements the recommendation is to award the contract to left field with an amount not to exceed $50,000 uh which again is the project um for that what did we budget we budgeted I believe we budgeted 60,000 for project manager Services uh and so the amount was there was was 50 um the Pendleton Road cleaning project is an arpa project DPW bid this one FID was received from GVC Construction in the amount of $105,000 fortunately they have many references for similar projects um and the DPW is confident and and again I seek your confirmation of the bid award to GVC construction for that project and then the last one is for the sou row lightning protection system for McDonald electrical in the amount of $62,900 again uh positive references it meets the budget and the we're seeking the confirmation what you're seeing here is is two things one is we're fortunate that we're coming within the funding amounts the challenge is what you're seeing is still very very thin bidding field it is for for these projects which is disappointing we we've you know we're we're still seeing the remnants and and what it is and we're seeing the same story repeatedly is people will say we can do the work but we can't get to you for six months to a year uh in generally and so that so what you're seeing here is the DPW aggressively going out uh and you know making contacts outreaching to people to bid on these projects um and and and obviously we bring them to you when they come in but yet you know we much like the the preo days we'd come in and say oh we had five people bid you know three of the bids were around this amount one you know one's an outlier um we're here bringing you what what we have again fortunately the references are good the work is good and I think part of what helps us I think the reputation of doing work for the Chan Public Works is good so I think you have people who come in and saying hey look I've got choices of where I'm going to do projects private or public sector and in the public sector the town of champ has a good reputation in terms of you know they're prepared for you they they get you in they get you out and and don't underestimate the importance of that because it's like anything else if if you don't have the reputation you don't have the the pro you know Cooperative relationship where your reputation precedes you this doesn't happen and then we're in a we're in a real bad spot so again I present those four Awards and I I want to thank you know Christine Clancy and and her uh division heads and others down there who are moving these things forward because something like the OPM for the kitchen project if we don't have an OPM that project isn't going to meet the timetable that's needed for the high school uh and and so forth so again I I respectfully seek your award for these four projects so on on the South Row the lightning protection when when will that happen like over the summer or the hope is to have it done by the end of the calendar year my guess is in talking to Christine it's probably going to spill into the spring uh but that's okay I mean we we we we've we've been in touch with our legislative con you know coordinators and state agencies and they say yeah as long as you get this product done within the upcoming fiscal year you'll be okay uh because we we're we've been reassessing all of our projects with the deadlines that have come up um and so we're okay with this but unfortunately some of these things are are going to have to wait the six months nine months to to get them done okay any other questions about any of these bids okay we'll take a motion I'll make a motion to approve the town manager bid Awards as presented to include the chelsford public schools electrification road map study and chumford high school kitchen improvements project the Pendleton roads stream cleaning arpa project and the South Row lighting protection system installation lightning protection lightning protection system installation second okay we have a motion in a second all in favor okay thank you thank you okay we have a report yeah just a brief report uh we um this has to do with the air quality from the quaries you heard about it earlier in the comments in the open session and I want to thank our Public Health Department in the town of Westford who really has been the lead on this and they forwarded the information through our local Board of Health you know Sue Rosa and Donna Greenwood and then brought it to my attention the important and good news here is the massett Department of uh Environmental Protection is regulating the Quarry emissions uh as you know there have been concerns about particulates emanating from the Quarry activities um and so they're now requiring air quality permits of all the three sites and the three sites being the Newport Aggregates Granite fil materials engraves Granite sites and and I guess most importantly of concern is the there's still will be an opportunity to for public comment for the Newport Aggregates proposed permit and so in the packet if people who are watching at home and what have you um a lot of the pages are to the consent uh uh um order with with granted fi materials but at the back of those materials and in your packet you can see that Newport aggregate has submitted to the state the environmental justice fact sheet um and that was um that they submitted an application online on April 16 to 2024 Mass D Department of Ral protection is reviewing their application and once that application is administratively and technically complete a draft permit will be issued and then the public comment period begins and then the public comment period lasts for 30 days uh after it begins and therefore if there's any questions that come up to that time there's the contact information for the mass D so I know we know this was a concern I know members of this board raised a concern that you'd heard from residents and travels to the area about the dust and and the emissions coming from that site so again the state in this instance has has stepped forward and and is requiring you know air quality permits uh and hopefully improve the activities out there uh from you know from not having an adverse impact uh on the abing residents and properties Paul how how do we or the public know when the permit is filed and the the draft permit is released and the public comment period begins um I expect that we will receive notice uh and as soon as I do it I will put it out on the news flash we'll obviously notify the select board and the community about the Newport um permit being active so I would you know we'll we will stay on this meeting our Board of Health um I meet with the health inspector and the other inspectors and Public Safety officials once a week this is on our list in terms of you know where are we at with this project so we'll again we'll keep you updated at this table but also uh we'll put it out quickly on on the internet and the website so on oh go ahead it's okay just there was the comment in public input about potential radioactive material but um I also got input if you recall when we had the citizens petition I think part of what we were measuring were chemical contaminants not just dust M um so there was a question raised about is there an ability to feed that into the process at all and I don't know the answer don't know that okay thank you so while I just notice on the on the fact sheet and it's probably not relevant um the the last the address the address yeah I thought it was strange to 90 ledge Road North Charon oh no no at the very bottom it it it talks about the project located in count of town of Acushnet yeah my guess is that's a typo there there was another document that had their address at 100 l Road in or 100 chelsford Street in L yeah okay all right we don't need any action on that no all right next up is annual appointments our first shot at um reappointments for folks who have indicated a desire to stay on the boards and committees that they're currently on um anybody have any questions concerns about this this list my only question was the um there's no end date on the fire station study commit me appointments is it ever going to end is it ever going to end well I didn't know if we should just make it like to to 2026 even though it may be done in the fall 2026 2026 25 I'm sorry okay yeah okay 30 June 25 yeah just make it the the minimum one year or whatever okay so for another year and then if it's if it stops earlier than that that's fine but we don't have to vote again if it goes longer something 30 June 25 okay okay anything else oh I had a question about the Constable is he only appointed for a year yes that's the provision that we have yeah you remember we amended the the chart on right all right I will take a motion if there's no other questions I'll make a motion to approve the annual appointments as presented and as amended and as amended thank you second okay we have a motion in a second all in favor I thank you okay next uh up we wanted to talk about um discussion of uh of council Town Council and other special Council that that we that we have that this board is responsible for for hiring um we did receive a uh a letter from attorney Paul havy this this uh past week saying that he does not intend he does not wish to be to be renewed um as town counsil for ch due to other commitments at his firm so uh but he's willing to stay on until as needed to um to bring a new Town Council up to speed um it's also been noted um by Virginia that we do have other special Council for labor Council labor Council for the select board um Council for elections and Council for public records and I believe all four of those are handled by KP law now is that correct yes so um I mean we can do this a couple of ways um we could see if KP law has the resources to um take us on as as Town Council in addition to the other areas that they serve um or we could have we could open it up to um other um firms um I guess my my preference would be to go with KP law we've used them before um I was satisfied with them um and since we do use them for these other special um areas is um I think it almost makes sense to try to bring everything under one umbrella that way there's there's less opportunity for um discrepancies as far as who who to call basically so I don't know how anybody else feels I'm not adverse to going out and and looking at other firms however um I have had extensive experience with KP law myself just to all the different projects um both administratively and from a construction law point of view I've always found them to be topnotch and right on top of everything that we've ever needed so um I I don't have a problem going either way um because I I know KP law to be um a excellent firm so um but I'm not adverse to um seeking proposals either okay anybody else same okay I I have I have a question like because we don't seem to have a a practice for this um for the last two years somebody has brought up potential changes in either labor Council or Town Council and two years ago I think when that was brought up um I believe it was Mark karata at the time had suggested that if we wanted to change Council we should allow ourselves like a sufficient amount of time to ask for proposals and do interviews and start that process in you know April May time frame or whatever um so like in an instance like this and and then when it came up again the year after with a different Council we said we went back to the year before and said well we said we're not just going to do this on the fly in June we'll allow ourselves time so should we I don't know if just from a pure if we if that was our philosophy about the process should we find out if there are any potential interested firms I don't from the standpoint of the special the other councils that we have Labor and elections and public records I mean I kind of feel like if it's if it's working I'm not sure that I'm interested in entertaining bringing somebody else in and paying them to come up to speed and you know kind of make a whole new transition on the established ones um but I just didn't know like what is the board's practice when they change Council cuz for the last two years it seems to be we're not going to when we had the option we weren't going to make the decision in June we were going to say next year let's start it earlier yeah I know it seems so now do we just go Point solution to one firm or do we just take if if if attorney H is willing to you know stay on for a transition do we take some time to just look at multiple proposals at our next meeting or whatever and see what or do interviews somebody brought up interviews who's been done in the past and I'm just asking because I don't have the history with this okay um assume the contract runs to the end of the fiscal year they run they appointed for one year June to the end of June yeah um I mean yeah we could do it a couple of different ways or probably there's probably more than than two different ways we could do it um if if there were a sense that we maybe we wanted to go with KP law I could reach out to them have them come to our next meeting and give have them give a presentation about how how they would handle everything together um what they might do differently how you know what they would offer that maybe another firm might not and if we were satisfied with that we could we could appoint them then if we're not if we have some concerns uh we could reach out to other other firms um I I suspect it it's probably not unlike the way we are with accountants lately you know we put out an RFP and we get no responses or or Max two responses so um do we know if they have the capacity I would expect they do but I could call tomorrow and find out if if they do I didn't want to preemptively they're still they're still advertising in the beacon for a town ccil show and and and they're dropping the town next door so yeah I saw that so I mean if everybody would be okay with that I'm I'm willing to do that and and have somebody come in and give us a brief presentation or or and or submit a report about I think that makes a lot of sense based on the fact that we're already using them in different capacities and to bring it all into one roof could be advantageous so I think that makes sense well yeah a new firm would really have to come in and allow us somehow to convince us not to just bring it all under their umbrella right I don't know well to to especially as as Virginia said to take to take away from the other four that KP law already has you know and and I think it kind of makes sense to if we can to have them have fewer rather than more different places that we would go to and so the other question that I had with this is let's just say theoretically we make a decision on June 4th do we need to um do we need to make any kind of formal three-month appointment or anything for um like attorney hay for the transition because he's got seven years of Legacy here and um cases that are currently open and I don't know that it's reasonable for us to just expect him to just do that on his own time I I I would agree I mean I think we need to set up a transition period I think you know maybe it' be up I can ask him also what does he think a reasonable transition period would be whether that's a month or two months or something like that and obviously that would be good information to have at our next meeting I think you'd want to ask both of them cwn C future Town coun what yeah you can have a transition you can also have multiple councils I mean which is known as special Council to close up matters and or transition matters and would for example suspect if we did that way it'd be on a Case by case basis that's how they do it what what they do is they they they prepare a transition report and then in some of the matters with this active litigation they have to submit a notice of withdrawal and then a notice of appearance on on cases and so forth and so you know so that's so for example we've got the claim on on Charles Way for example you know if Atty havy files of response which he will because it's timely then what happens is is he then files a notice you know with the court and the other Council saying I'm withdrawing as councel and then kPa says we're now you know appearing as Council for this and and that's how the transition goes out exactly and but if there's an ongoing case like with the board of appeals that's you know part of the the fifth hearing and they've got to wrap it up in August then just continue as special counsel and close that out because you're not going to you know so basically it's done on an individual basis the good news is is as a community we don't have a heavy litigation load so it's it's it's you know it shouldn't be too onerous on on on anybody's part so so attorney hav firm and the new Council firm would get together and then come to us and say this is like we recommend yeah that okay okay very good okay all right so that's that will be our plan okay um we have one set of meeting minutes anybody have any comments or Corrections on the on the minutes as presented if not we can have a motion make a motion to approve the select board regular meeting minutes of May 6 2024 as presented second okay a motion and a second all in favor thank you all right we are now to selectman on reports and referrals George anything okay Pat Uh just quickly on the um nor ched fire station we did meet with the contractor a week ago uh two weeks ago uh Wednesday um they have agreed to our um proposals in the materials that we wanted to use um so that material has lead times associated with it so we're expecting the work to start right after Labor Day holiday and be completed in about six to eight weeks once they start um but uh we're currently awaiting um uh submittals and cut sheets to make sure that the products are uh our approval and then we will turn the loose to go ahead and order that and that will all be done um at no fee to the town and we'll have a new uh sighting on that that building by uh by the Fall okay very good Aaron J um I just had a question Paul we we had received a letter for public input from Christine Bowman that I shared with you about early morning trash pickups before 7 a.m. and she had said that she can't be here tonight so is that something you guys can look at I've already shared it with the police chief Public Works director and Zoning enforcement officer and so we we'll get on that and again I'll follow up on Wednesday uh again as my weekly meeting time to get you know get moving on that thank you okay that's that's it yep okay um yeah I just have a few things first of all thanks everybody who came to the Memorial Day Parade last week it was a good day a good parade we have a b a bunch of little kids marching with us that was you're welcome so thanks to thanks for everybody who came for that um congratulations to the chood high seniors and the nooba graduating seniors they both graduated last both sets of them grad graduated last um last Saturday uh so congratulations to them a good day again for for uh for both events so congratulations um and congratulations to Paul last week for receiving a award from Community Teamwork as a champion champion of Community Action do you want to talk about that at all no I just no thank [Music] you thank thank the people who really made it possible which were all the department heads and First Responders in the community who uh you know really really was nice that that Community Teamwork recognized the efforts that chelwood has had in serving those in need particularly at the shelter facility on johnon street okay and I have I have one more thing um so I hope I do this right this morning I went to a funeral for a gentleman who lived across the street from me his name was George de primo and um as part of the service his son you know told talked a little bit about his father and you know said what a great guy he was how helpful he was and you know he how talented he was and he also commented about his father's sense of humor he always had a joke for everything and he has one he had one joke that was his favorite so the son told us today as we left the service that we had to repeat this joke at some point today so I'm going to try to do this joke so so this is the George de Primo favorite joke okay so there's this um this mouse that dies and he goes to heaven and he's at as he's at the gates um he looks through the gates and he says wow that's a huge Place how am I ever going to get around that place and so St Peter says well we have a set of um roll es skates for you that'll help you get around he said well that's perfect you know that'll really help me so the the mouse goes off and rolls around Heaven the next day a cat dies and comes to the gates comes up to the Heaven's Gates and uh and looks in and sees this uh this mouse rolling around on their roller skates and he says to St Peter you know I think I'm really going to like it here you have Meals on Wheels so rest in peace George Depo that's all I have I'll have a motion to adjourn make a motion to adjourn second all in favor e e e