time to get here if you if you're able rise Pledge of Allegiance the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right good evening everyone uh if you do not know me my name is Garrett Olsen I'm an attorney with the Boose Law Firm we represent the city as uh its City attorney and I will be the attorney with you for this year on the board of adjustment uh I know we have some new members uh and uh the first item of um business we have have to get to this evening is the election of a chair and vice chair for the board uh or are we approving minutes first on the agenda yeah I think well we should do um roll call let's do that first okay John cabor here okay Ronald berer here joh Hayes here Michael Goldberg uh Rick Anderson here summerell yeah I'm here all right and jameses Cole he is excused yeah okay then election uh the next order or the approval of minutes but from August meeting well we could we could do the approval of amendments first if you'd rather I mean I never saw them so I don't know you never saw [Applause] them were they they weren't in [Applause] here believe it was the U Storage Containers moved it remember it y scg motion okay I haven't had a chance to review those either do you want to take a moment to pass those around and then we can accept the minutes yeah we'll do later our agenda contemplates that we're going to elect a chair and vice chair first and then we'll so we'll do that process and then we'll get now an election is legal even if you have two board members who haven't been technically even sworn in yeah so again this is just a procedural item for the board right the there no action items on the board so we're not worried about um you know impacting anyone's um entitlements here this is just the ways the board's way governing itself right having someone in charge someone steep in in case that person's not able to go for that particular item so what I'd recommend is that we move forward elect a chair a vice chair and uh if there are any subsequent issues that come up which I do not believe there would be any we could always you know restart the process at at a later meeting date so um with that uh as I spoke to you all before the meeting um the way that this usually goes down is that I'll call for nominations for chair uh once there's a nomination uh made I will wait for a second uh at that point I will ask the nominee if they accept the nomination uh and if they affirm that they do I will call for a Voice vote all in favor say I I'll oppose like sign um and at that point if we have a chair I will pass uh the duties of electing a vice chair on to the the chair uh so at this time would anyone like to make a nomination for chair who wants to be the chair and you all can discuss it beforehand as well I'll nominate Don he's he was the vice chair so it's kind of a last year so all right I have a nomination is there a second a second all right we have a second do you accept the nomination yes awesome all right all in favor uh signify by saying I I I all oppose like sign all right congratulations we have a chair for the 18th time do you actually know what number it is no I have no idea no idea I'd be interested it'd be in the '90s I started all right cool okay go ahead and I'd like to see if anybody would like to make a recommendation for an a vice chair thank you I you know i' Vice chair yeah I'll thank you yeah I'll second it so is there a nomination yeah Ron accepts the nomination we getting call yes someone who's been on here at least one year yep yeah see next year and plus we're only going to serve what couple of months oh just the end n nine months and then do you have any cases coming up that you know of we have one at least maybe two next month um probably yeah next month all right let's call the vote on that uh nomination every any you call you call the vote yeah I'm just trying to think we got the first the second and all in favor I I I I okay very all right 5 so that passes 5 we have a new Vice chair R congratulations thank you congratulations to you welcome the new people and uh we'll discuss the minutes in a minute we have no conflict we have have no interest and you can do your presentation sure if uh if we're going to approve the minutes later on I think that would be appropriate Ron's reading them okay yeah this is fine what we agreed to I'll pass it down there and well I watched it on I watched it on YouTube um I wasn't present for the meeting so I would have no reason to object to it there you go okay so do we have an approval of the uh minutes of the August of 23 meeting all in favor I what's the date August of wow that was last one mons ago yeah yeah okay I guess now we turn it over to you sir did we have a motion on that vote I make a motion to approve the amendes as presented all right we have a second just want to make sure it's reflecting the minutes all in favor I I I I presentation time is the computer for this over here yeah I may uh steal that share not from you go ahead no goad y all right everyone hear me all right yes so as a part of the orientation process I'm going to go through um two PowerPoints uh tonight um I'll try to go through it as quickly as possible um if it's information you already know say Hey Garrett we already know what this is we don't need to be reminded I will move uh right along thank you did you do this wrong did you do this here we go yeah first portion of the presentation is going to cover Sunshine Law Public Records law voting conflicts um I know you all probably know very well what Sunshine Law is we're going to briefly go over that uh same thing with public records we're mainly going to think uh focus on some practical pointers for you guys to keep an eye on uh and we will spend a little bit more time on voting conflicts because that is something that may arise um after that we're going to talk about parliamentary procedure right how the board governs itself making motions making seconds how it all works um what I want you guys specifically kind of focus on in that process to make sure all of our uh meetings in the future are smooth uh and finally we'll close out with what I think is the most pertinent and important information uh and that is um quasi judicial procedure right everything this board does is uh when you guys have items come before you they are all quasi judicial in nature so we'll talk about what that is uh what to watch out for and uh hopefully you guys enjoy the presentation I will try to go through this as quickly as possible uh but it may uh might run up in 45 minutes so what is the Sunshine Law provides public right of access to our meetings right it applies to elected boards like our city uh Council board it also applies to this board as an appointed board all right general rule that I want you guys to keep in mind is that all meetings in which official actions take place or transaction or discussed have to happen at an open and noticed public meeting all right so two requirements there open and notice we'll talk about that very briefly what's the meeting normal meeting where items are decided right maybe a workshop there's a particular project that's up for discussion or informal uh discussions between board members could also be a telephone call or text message right right emails other written correspondents even informally talking outside in the parking lot could be construed as a meeting a lot of three basic requirements for meetings uh right they have to be opened to the public there has to be reasonable notice of such meetings and we have to take minutes right we have to take good minutes and make sure they're open to public inspection that's why we asked for motions and seconds that's why just a moment ago and the approval the minutes right I wanted to make sure we had a motion in a second on the record so that we could have that reflected in the minutes so whose responsibility is it for the minutes is that Corey yes okay that's correct so we're not going to go through any hypotheticals tonight so what is Sunshine Law really getting at right Sunshine Law um if you there is a communication between two or more board members of the same board that is where you are going to run into issues right those types of communications are prohibited under the sunshine why is that that is because uh meetings the meeting requirement every meeting between two or more members of the same board has to be made at an open and noticed public hearing right where the public can participa if board members are having uh conversations amongst themselves about items that may re foreseeably come before the board right that's where you're going to run into issues okay that's what the Sunshine Law tries to forit can I ask yeah um I'm close to one of the alternates and every time a project comes up we'll go on site to look at it together is that a problem it it may be yeah um I would uh recommend that you do any of your um uh work right your your prep work for an agenda item alone or with someone who is not a member of the board uh the reason why is you know you guys may drive up to the site not talk at all review it independently get in the same car and drive away uh if there's a Savvy opponent to uh you know whatever's taking place uh that could be a basis to overturn uh a validly reached decision so um even the appearance of impropriety could you know raise you know a lawsuit that would delay um an entitlement that someone would receive before the board so um we're going to want to uh keep those interactions uh out of our prep work so you as a board are more than welcome to communicate with staff on on items uh that come up from time to time um if there's a particular portion of the code or a particular issue that you come across in your packet and you were just thinking I have no idea what the analysis is here what is going on you can absolutely feel free to reach out to staff to get those clarifications I would advise that you not ask uh in that moment for uh you know a ton of detail or staff's opinion right that's all going to be laid out in the um um in your packets that you're going to receive those are going to be highly detailed um they'll either include include a recommendation uh or you know they'll say you know we find that uh the applicant has satisfactory met the criteria in the code uh and they'll leave it up to you whether or not to Grant or deny right U so we'll talk about in a little bit why uh we maybe want to limit those conversations to just getting the information you need right but um discussions between board members prohibited if a city uh you know another elected official in the city comes to you and says hey you know I want to talk to you about this uh variance request that's coming up that conversation is completely fine right they're not a member of this boort just a little bit more about meetings uh they have to be by open to the public they have to be in a location accessible to the public right we have a road that leads here a big parking lot we have lots of empty chairs here in the office audience lots of space for the public to come out and participate in our meetings uh we also uh put them even though it's not legal legally required we put them up on uh YouTube for folks to watch which is uh very helpful and we can't discriminate or restrict access to the public there may be a few hot button issues coming before the board this year on some big projects and there might be news cameras uh in uh in back and that is completely fine so long as they are not being distracting while they're taking video or photographs uh that is permissible under Florida law public the right to public input is not unlimited right uh we are allowed to adopt reasonable rules for when uh folks want to come and give public comment um most some of our items will have public comment others won't uh we may I believe we have a general public comment portion at the top of meetings um we're allowed to limit uh those comments to a reasonable time I think generally we we stick to the 3 minute rule here which is perfectly fine most of these requirements too are more for um larger boards like city council um you know we we make sure you all follow these rules but um they uh the issues don't pop up as often with boards like yours so we want to make sure that we follow the Sunshine Law because there are um while there are non-criminal infractions that can result if you're found to have a Sunshine Law violation knowing violations could include up to a year in jail uh it's no joke right um there's nothing worse I'm told it hasn't happened to me yet than getting a call from a state investigator asking uh if you have time to sit down for an interview uh so uh we always caution folks against having these communications with uh fellow board members if you ever have a question about you know a conversation you were about to have is good or not just give me a call right all of you will have my cell phone number by the end of the night so you guys can give me a ring um I will answer your call when with same day uh for sure and that we can make sure that any conversation you're going to have is going to be okay do you represent the board or the city so our firm represents the city as the City attorney while you all are uh deciding uh cases that come before you right applications for variances or or whatever I represent you all in helping you all formulate your decisions right I make sure the process is correct I make sure that the board follow due process right we'll talk about that in a little bit and I make sure that the ultimate decision that you all reach I try to try really hard to make sure it's a valid decision right it's my job to make sure that your will happens so I try to you know massage out any issues during the meeting that might arise um if there's ever a lawsuit last year this board approved a variance for a doc here in Coco Beach um and there was a lawsuit that resulted from that our firm represents the city and that lawsuit to defend your decision right and we were successful on that lawsuit because everything worked out well at the board level so that's what my job is here I answer your question yes uh so just one quick uh point on this any decision that is reached um as a result of a Sunshine Law violation void immediately okay not voidable doesn't take a court uh proceeding to render it void but uh if there's evidence of Sunshine Law violation the decision is void abono right and that's what the legislature uh you know prescribed here because they want you guys to know you know even if you try to pull one over on your uh fellow board members toh work out how you're going to come down on a Case before uh the case happens um you're still not going to be successful because the uh whatever you voted on uh will be void that was a very very quick overview of Sunshine Law I know you guys aren't going to talk to each other uh you guys aren't going to call each other about uh your staff packets you receive to uh figure out what the right thing to do is um I'll tell you that even if you have questions for me about how you feel about a particular item before the meeting um I'm usually here about 45 minutes before meetings when we have action items so that you can pull me aside you can pull me to the back of the room and we can talk about any questions you have right even though conversations have to happen separate from other board members all right so think about I mean if you if you're standing next to me and we're having a conversation about how you feel about a particular item and there's another board member right there that's a communication between two one or you know two or more members of the same board outside of a notice public meeting right we talked about how meetings can be informal uh discussions text messages phone calls uh right so that could be construed as a Sunshine violation under your example if I ask you questions out there is that privileged that is that protected by privilege by privilege do you mean attorney client privilege yeah so if you're representing the board and I have a question it's and I'm just curious yeah I so I mean if you ask me a question you know it it'll stay between us I'm not going to go around and say oh you know John this is and that I mean it's not there's no legal uh prot you know privilege right okay um our client is the city council those board members uh we represent the city too as well but um yeah we in a sense I represent the board when you guys are in session right um trying to ascertain whether you're going to vote yes or no on the requests that come before you uh that's my inut but if on a you know Saturday afternoon you know you go to a restaurant with someone else on the board and you want to know how much you can really talk about um you know I represent you in that moment too right because it's about your board Duty so feel free to call me um and we can uh we can chat about all that public records law I saw one of you texting during uh this presentation we're going to talk a little bit about text messages um in this meeting it's uh I'm not going to I'm not going to knock you for it but I was actually writing myself notes okay we'll talk about not we'll talk about notes as well I'm to pick on you for this uh he's the chairman we're going to talk about uh chairman am Meritus at this point so does everyone have everyone knows that they are an appointed member of a city board right a public board uh and because of that the public records act applies to you the same as it applies to everyone else who works for the city including myself all right Florida public records act provides a right of access to the record records of state and local governments right as well as private entities like the post law firm uh it's also uh embedded in Florida's Constitution Article 1 Section 24 and there are narrow exceptions that apply in the Constitution and in state law but again they are narrow all right so what is a public record what can constitute a public record as you see here pretty much at everything right all documents papers letters Maps books tapes or other materials regardless of physical form characteristics or means of transmission made and this is the key part I want you guys to focus on all of that right made or received pursuant to law or ordinance or in connection with the transaction of official business by any agency okay this definition quite inclusive right it's any document paper communication you know regardless whether it's in its final form made a receive pursuant to law or ordinance or in connection with any the transaction of any official business by the agency Florida Supreme Court took that kind of beefy definition it's paired it down quite a bit made it a little easier to understand right all materials made or received by an agency in connection with official business which are used to perpetuate communicate or formalize knowledge right you may say gar that's even more confusing than the first definition you might be right so we're going to go over do that mean so we're talking about all materials regardless of whether they're in final form drafts of documents public records right the final version public record all right all of these materials are open for public inspection unless the legislature has Exempted them from disclosure I'm going to walk through a hypothetical here in a minute um about texting during a meeting or passing notes during a meeting that'll surprise you all and will hopefully put you in the right frame of mind for uh some of our uh more public items that are coming up later this year there's no exception for you know G this is really embarrassing I really don't want to show this uh you know Channel 9 News uh what I uh sent you know during the meeting can I can I can I just you know delete the text answers down or this email is really embarrassing where I'm bad mouthing this applicant coming up to the board do you mind if we just keep it out of the production now it's public record all right I text my wife I'll be 15 minutes late for dinner is public records well I'll I'll answer that question in a minute I want to hold off on that because it's not but we'll we'll talk about it emails right electronic records of course those are public records as well data received by public officers or employees you all are public officers okay so this applies to you they're subject to disclosure in the absence of an exemption question yes do we have any obligation to retain emails received by us you guys are asking the best questions tonight compared to the the planning you guys are kicking the planning board's butt on questions you are if you are in possession of a public record you are the custodian of that record okay now presumably I say presumably if you get uh an email communication from staff or from myself anyone else associated with the city you can rest assured that the city is going to maintain that email to you right um so I would recommend that you maybe create a folder where you save those emails um but uh the city is going to have a copy of that email in our records and that is enough to uh preserve the record okay so we aren't required to reprove if we were to uh if we were to be subpoena or to had to provide Discovery and I did not retain those I would have a reasonable argument this came from a city official I thought that g me of the requirement to be a custodian of those records it come from I'm not going to be emailing anyone else other than probably staff so yeah well that's that's a good point simple just just for the board's benefit the way these requests work is you're not going to get a subpoena in in the mail it's not like a formal Discovery request in litigation um there will be a public records request that comes into the city clerk the clerk's job is she's he or she's going to reach out and ask everyone who might have those records you know hey here's the request you know we're going to produce whatever they ask for we're going to have the attorneys look over it maybe if there's any issues um generally speaking if you get an email from staff those emails are going to be archived and saved so you are good to go what I would strongly recommend whatever email address you've given uh the city to communicate with you if it's a Gmail just make a little folder in your Gmail you know Coco Beach Board of adjustment and when you're done with an email change just drag get right into that folder it's out of your inbox you don't have to worry about it but it's it's there oh we don't get a city email for why would they give us a city email so we don't have to personal email be discoverable it's not discover your personal email is not discoverable no one's going to log in it'll just be a you know you might get a an email from me saying hey we've uh gotten a request for all emails uh you know between members of the board of adjustment do you have any I'll just ask you and if you don't then that's fine you know awesome if you do say hey gar here are all my emails you know I'll let you decide whether or any apply um that's fine too no one's going to come looking in your email because we pretty much cannot email each other anyway that's right yeah about business right correct yeah but if they just want you know all your emails you know regarding uh your official duties then you know the city will have those but it' be helpful if you all had a set as well so we can make sure we're all good but do you have is do you have a list of things that we can do to make sure we don't inadvertently create what because it sounds like if you're here there that shouldn't be that hard so long as under that definition it should be reasonably easy not to have stuff other than when you're emailing back and forth with the city which is already retained exactly yeah so the best way to avoid that is to just not create it exactly that's okay so do you have a list of for to help us make sure that we don't inadvertently create stuff that we would have to provide under the sunshine I mean we can the board of adjustment is pretty easy you know like yeah and I have lots of little practical tips for you guys at the end of uh what we're going through here let's get through the rest of the public records uh portion it's not as scary I promise as it uh it appears to be G Garrett if I might yeah what has worked for me is if you need to if you need to ask a question phone call that's that's what we're getting yeah okay okay that's my big uh punchline at the end of Sor the really only emails you're going to get are either notification of a meeting and details on a new right they're all going they're all going to be one way but they're not going to be excellent if you ourselves I'll just get to it now if you all ever have question for me or for staff pick up up the phone phone calls are not public records okay we can talk about anything you want the weather you know what you shot the last time you played the the Coco Beach course and you can ask me anything about any item on the agenda it's not a public record you can tell me what you think about a project it's not going to be archived in some you know transcript somewhere with the city all right got it that's with staff is well y but if you do have a public record if you text me a question about board business that's a communication made that's used to communicate knowledge formalize knowledge right that text message is a public record that's why if you're going to communicate with the city with me anyone else about anything involving Board of adjustments do it by email it's super easy to keep all that together on email much harder uh when you're texting there are penalties for folks who uh do not uh maintain records as they're supposed to you guys are going to do a great job of that I hope I've sufficiently scared you uh into not creating public records in the first place but uh if you do uh you know just make sure save them in a file um we don't have to talk about the penalties because you guys uh won't run into it but uh there could be civil and there's uh criminal penalties that are assignable as well Ron how long you think you could survive inside not long this uh we're almost through the first slide deck talking about voting conflicts um this may seem a little more abstract than what we just went through um if you ever I I'll start this off by saying if it's confusing you know I'm right there with you all right if there's ever a question about a voting conflict that you think you might have when you're reviewing your agenda items the first thing you do is call me because it's a lot easier to work out whether or not you have a conflict right if we're not in a public set and we have to discuss everything in the open or it's 5 minutes before the meeting and you have a very very very close case and maybe it is a conflict and maybe on this particular night we only have three board members that are able to come and maybe because you're conflicted out the only item on the agenda that night can't go because we don't have a qu any right so it's very important practically and for your own sake that if you think you have a conflict even if it's a 10% chance give me a call all right that's why I have this little note on the slide right so we're looking at section 112. 3143 Florida Statutes uh if you uh want to do a little late night reading uh I would uh ask that you go ahead and and and read this in FL statutes it's very confusing so that is why if you have any questions please give me a call who does public rec or who does voting conflict laws apply to again you all are public officers this applies to public officers right if you are an elected or in an appointed position all of you were appointed to this board this applies to you so what is a voting conflict what are we talking about here right any measure which would ignore to your special private gain or loss or any measure which you know would ignore to the special private gain or loss of a principal by whom you're retained a parent organization or subsidiary of that corporate principle by whom you're retained a relative or a business associate okay again confusing we're going to talk about who's a principal right the the first bullet point is pretty self-explanatory right if someone if you know let's say uh you and your uh spouse are coming in and you you want a variance for your dock to be put in on your property that's an obvious conflict right um that would surely Ure to your private gain or loss because you're getting some entitlement from the city right putting a dock on your property is probably going to improve your property value substantial right and it's only going to really improve your property value so it's a special game right it's not a game that's felt by other folks in the community not even your neighbors right so that's self-explanatory we're going to talk now about these four uh sub bullet points right where you know it would ignore to the special private gain or loss of those four uh classes of folks talk about the first one here who's a principal an employer right if you're employed and your employer comes and has an application for the board of adjustments call me any of your clients if you're in a professional practice and any of your clients come before you uh with a request call me same thing if it's a a parent Corporation or a subsidiary Corporation right but it's really the same company as who you're employed by call who's a relative pretty short list here any of those folks have any items that come before the board again call me question go back real quick yeah okay thank you yeah that uh that note there for the the much larger slide deck uh where uh we give to uh you know our city council that you know commissions that we represent uh the anti-nepotism and gift laws the it's pretty funny the definition of relative explodes um it's uh it's comical we we just uh put a little note in our our slides to let people know that those definitions are all different but for your purposes for whether or not you have a voting conflict those are the folks who would apply not that this applies to be at all but I don't see uncle aunt cousin as being defined as a relative so they are not relatives under uh voting conflict law okay y we're looking at father mother son daughter husband wife brother sister father-in-law mother-in-law son-in-law or daughter-in-law all right a business associate um if uh you're if you have a common commercial or entrepreneurial Pursuit right that individual is going to be your business associate or if there's a current ongoing business relationship with uh an individual or for an individual who owns another business right that's going to be you know I hope that you know dings something in your head I got to call G ask him if it's okay if I vote at the next meeting right so we've identified the uh different classes of folks right any measure that would benef you know benefit yourself uh and then we talked about any uh measure which you know would benefit those four classes of people we're now going to talk about what is special private gain or loss right voting conflict law does not apply to all situations which might result in a gain or loss right the gain or loss has to be special um interestingly um there are many many many different times where your companion board the planning board would have questions about a special private gain or loss they deal with legislative items that impact the whole city right they help uh make recommendations to the uh uh City board members on rewriting different portions of the code right on changing future land use maps on approving um you know real big projects that might actually uh impact the property vales um so this test is much harder with them with you it's a lot easier because the sorts of requests that people come in to this board with um it's there's a much lower chance of there being this special private game all right requires an economic benefit or harm it's not just uh you know everyone's going to benefit because there's a new flashy Hotel over here that we you know approve the variance for right has to be a special economic benefit or harm to you or to those classes of folks that we discussed so what do we look at well how big is the class right you can't have a special harm or benefit if the class of people is the whole city of Coco Beach right what's the relative benefit or harm when compared to other members of the effective class right so what's the benefit to you versus your neighbor versus someone down the street perhaps okay we'll look at some uh points like that is the gain or loss remote or speculative right if it's a 50/50 chance that there's a gain of loss is that going to be enough uh and then is the matter a preliminary matter or a procedural matter right like approving the minuts talk about that right so smaller the class higher the chance of there being a special game and vice versa pretty self as well generally um if if it's better than a 50% chance uh that there is going to be uh a gain or loss that's when I'll give you a call back in 30 minutes when I have time to chat about it with uh the city attorney's uh waiter Beck those right um generally where the um whether or not the gain or loss is probable right more than 50% that is where we will uh recommend to you all that you uh abstain from voting for that particular okay and it's highly this analysis highly individualized uh we'll talk a lot about key little facts and points uh and generally in the middle of our discussions we'll realize there's no conflict generally there's no conflict but it's always nice to check preliminary matters or procedural matters um I have approval of the agenda approving the item that is uh on the agenda right a I approve you know I vote to approve the order of the agenda or I vote to approve the minutes of a prior meeting where I was uh conflicted on a particular item that's you're not uh going to have to sit out for those votes right because the matter is already occurred right there's already been a vote you weren't a part of that vote so everything there will be fine it only applies to the actual item before you so in the in the very unlikely event that you do have a voting conflict what do you do first thing you do is you call me there should be a there should be a zero here call gar right then after we have identified that you have a conflict you're going to abstain from voting on top of that you're going to disclose orally before the vote on the item that you have a conflict and additionally you're going to file what's called a form 8D within 15 days and you're going to give it to the city um if there ever is a conflict we will provide you with that form uh it has to be made um a portion of the record uh for the next meeting and a part of the minutes that's why we have you fill it out within 15 days so we can get it off to the appropriate agency of the state and it could be a part of the minutes right do you recommend that we not discuss from the even so if we do have a conflict at we talking or they are talking hypothetically let's say I have the conflict I just flose up here do I then abstain from questions from the Das also or so I'll pick on you so let's say you have a conflict let's say we have one you know or two items on the agenda let's say the item you have the conflict on is the second item you would go we' open the meeting things would go through we have a portion of our agenda where we disclose conflicts at that point that's the appropriate time for you to say hey on agenda item D2 of the action agenda I have a conflict I will I will not be a part of that uh vote for that discussion so we would proceed we' go through with the first so that's my question is so do I do you not participate in the discussion or is it do do you not participate in the vote because there it says you abstain from voting okay either yeah so it's there's a difference between folks who are elected and folks who are appointed right so appointed officers have to disclose conflict before you even participate in discussion on the matter you are not involved at all right uh whereas if the Bard uh County Commissioners if there was an item before them that they had a conflict on they could call the item they could have participation they can say this is the best thing to happen to Bard County since NASA coming here and then right before the vote they go and by the way my brother owns the company wow I can't okay right um but appointed boards in Florida have different rules planning boards Board of adjustments right you all have to disclose the conflict before the items called that is why uh we have uh you know gone ahead and placed that disclosure to occur before we even get to anything on the agenda uh there are some very slight exceptions does anyone here employed by a public agency no don't have to talk about it um uh we're not dealing with the 1acre one vote uh system here um if the measure affects your expenses or compensation as provided by law you can vote this is how uh commissions across the State of Florida can vote to raise their salaries for being uh Council people or Commissioners right um because usually their Charter says they're entitles some compensation they can vote to affect it right you guys don't get paid you guys volunteer your time which is fantastic so appreciate that so that won't affect the ceing let's talk a little bit about section 286 um I want to start off by saying that you guys were appointed to the position you're in for a reason right you uh you guys are thought to uh have good judgment good reason that's why you're on this board so I highly recommend whenever you have an opportunity to vote on an item that you do it however in the very rare circumstance where you do not have a voting conflict but where there appears to be a voting conflict you are able to um abstain from voting on that particular um and that is only when exstension again is to assure a fair proceeding free from potential bias or Prejudice so let's say back to the relative point that was made earlier your uncle's not a part of that definition relative under chapter 112 right let's say you're came up asking for a variance special exception you're not conflict you don't there's no conflict however you know it may be uh it may be good for you to abstain from vote in that scenario right we'll talk about that um there are times when folks use this provision to get out of tough votes uh and again we always advise people you know you are here to take the tough vote uh so we always recommend uh unless unless there is uh clearly some uh you know perception of bias or Prejudice you all ought to vote okay question yes does an exstension automatically effectively become a no vote another words if four four items and four votes are needed and you have one exstension you only get three positive votes in that case is the exstension effectively a no vote so if you abstain from voting uh you remove yourself from the whole proceeding it's not counted as a no vote um if there were four uh board members and you have to abstain from voting you would disclose that at the top of the meeting just like we discussed if you had a normal voting conflict hey I have the you know I don't have an actual conflict I have what appears to be a conflict and in order for this item to be you know decided without the perception of influence or bias I'm going to remove myself there are now three votes right so there's it's not like there's already vote you're just out of the in so that was the the the quickest Sunshine Law public records and voting conflict uh talk I've ever given that's a lot of material um you know this board really doesn't have the opportunity to talk to each other outside of board meetings I hope uh so Sunshine laun should never be an issue public records I want you to remember if you create a public record if you send a text or communication about board business or if you receive receive anything about board business is a public record you ought to hold on to it right emails we're going to create a folder we're not going to send text messages if we have any really tough questions to ask staff or myself we're going to pick up the phone right and all again all of you will have my number um that's how we're going to resolve that I want to touch very briefly on private notes right Mr Hayes you were taking some private notes there absolutely presumably about the proceeding or about what I wrote some too I think it's wanted for lunch tomorrow so private VI so buy private notes um are generally not going to be public records even if they're uh right made in connection with board business you get your uh you know your big thick packet from staff that I hope all of you read thoroughly before each meeting and you jop down a couple notes you know you Circle a section with a big question mark Or you say what the heck is this you know with a with an arrow those types of notes that are just used to jog your memory right you're not using it to formalize or perpetuate or to communicate knowledge those notes are not public records but but the second you write something down on a piece of paper show the show the individual next to you what you're writing that's not good that is now right that's a communication you're using your writing and your communicating knowledge right so the second you show your private notes to folks comes public record so what what what are the laws and rules and how does it apply if if an applicant contacts one of us directly and there now an email between an applicant and myself that would be a public rec that is called an exte communication I'm so glad you brought that up we are going to get into that in about 20 minutes um we're not going to have those so uh I'm very glad you brought that up that would also be a public record right that's a communication received in connection with official board business and presumably the applicant is using the email to communicate with you right so that's absolutely a public record you're going to want to save it and then we'll learn in a little bit why we're going to want to disclos close that communication before an item comes up before the very good point uh parl mention procedures I know I have two new board members I will go through this very uh quickly for you all I know my other board members know about parliamentary procedure already and then we're going to talk about quasi judicial hearings due process issues things to watch out for and then as just brought up we're going to talk about expart Communications very briefly so the board uses a procedure to move through items right to approve items to vote items down to approve minutes to adjourn right we do that to maintain uh order and to promote efficient procceedings every meeting is going to have an agenda we're going to follow the agenda in how we go about um getting to items on the agenda if there's ever a want or a need for it usually comes from staff they may say hey you know the applicant for this one item uh is pressed for time or they have a flight to catch you know we're going to switch the items on the agenda you can always uh have a motion to vote at the top of the meeting to amend the agenda right to switch items in order uh things like that happen quite frequently but generally going to follow the order of the agenda uh generally we're only going to discuss topics um that are on the agenda there will be a portion of the meeting at the end where if you all want to discuss kind of General matters uh you know things you want from staff things you want from me uh you know more than happy to discuss it at that time generally when we're on one topic when we're you know hearing a request from an applicant for a variance we're not going to talk about the uh request for special exception we just had right we're going to try to stick to what is on the agenda for us um we're not not going to want to talk over each other um that's for two reasons number one we have to keep great minutes as provided by law right we have to make sure that we have excellent minutes for uh members of the public to review uh and second there may be items that come before you that are incredibly contentious that are so contentious that applicants or maybe members of the public who have interests in a particular item who have standing maybe perhaps to sue in the future they might bring a court report to the meetings and he or she will sit very close to where folks were speaking and will take down a Verbatim record of the proceedings right and in those instances we want to make sure we have a crystal clear record it would be horrible for uh good evidence to be given or discussed or maybe it's the reason for the whole vote is discussed but folks are talking over each other court reporter can't get it down there's an appeal filed and now the record's so messed up we have to have a new Pro seal right yes so I this happens at a lot of commission meetings um where the public comment section seems to get out of control and ends up being a dialogue between the commission and the person commenting and I know that that's a violation of the rules would that be a sufficient violation of the rules for someone to challenge the entire meeting so generally for most of the items that come before you all there is not a dedicated public comment portion um and that's uh there sometimes there will be um but very often there won't be we'll talk about why we probably just want to let those individuals talk in a minute when we go through uh quasi judicial procedure but uh what I recommend is if there is public comment during an item during the meeting we just hear them for the 3 minutes that they're entitled to and we you know thank them if uh if we do want to you know go back and forth that's fine it's not going to invalidate anything but uh but you know we have a rule 3 minutes per individual you know generally we advise folks stick to the rules so that that way someone who maybe gets cut short you know will say oh well they let someone else go long every single time they went long they never let me go long right they're discriminating against me they're restricting my right to you know be heard at public meetings So to avoid issues like that we try to uh stick to the rules uh final point on speaking we have a chair right if there's a particular uh um time during an item where it's not up for the board's discussion raise your hand hey chair can I ask you a question hey chair can I speak chair yep go ahead right that way we kind of keep discussion uh order to do things we need to make motions right for motions to survive there needs to be a second and once there's a second we can call a vote if there's a motion in no second the motion dos okay um that is the the quick rule that is how you all take action right generally what will happen is Staff will give a great presentation on an item the applicant will come up give a presentation make them available for questions and then after that the chair will say board discussion's up here board it's back up to us that's your opportunity to discuss the items to ask questions staff or the applicant uh and at that time if everyone's satisfied with what they've heard there can be a motion when there's a motion in a second generally there's not much discussion after that um because you're going to want to discuss matters before the motion's made um if anyone's ever confused about what a motion is um you know raise your hand say I don't understand the motion or can we clarify the motion um often times it'll be myself who will pipe up and say I think we need I think you meant something else right and then we'll go over it we'll talk about the motion um and then you can always amend your motion right then we'll have a vote usually uh votes will be just voice votes right chair will say all in favor say I if you want to affirm you say I all oppose like sign right I at that point if you uh do not wish to vote for the item and our uh board clerk will essentially call the vote at that point right unanimous four 41 32 just for the for the record right may ask what what is the I've heard of yay and nay I've never heard of the like sign what is it's it'll be you know it could be y or nay uh usually like sign is you just say the same thing but for the opposite you know reason right we can make amendments to motions maybe you have a vague motion and you know you don't really know why you're making it um but you know you want to affirm something right we can work that out uh after you make the motion um once the motion second right and then we need an amendment there needs to be a second to the amended motion so we have a chain for the minutes um let's say there's a motion made to uh approve variance 24- 1 to allow a dock at you know some particular property and there's no second or maybe there's a second and there's a vote and the motion fails 32 what happens next is that it does the applicant go home what happens next anyone uh want want to take a guess it's over motion fails it's over motion fails but the vote fails what's going to need to happen is there's going to need to be a motion to deny variance right we need an affirm we need think of it like this we need an affirmative vote right an affirmative vote to approve affirmative votes to deny right so if the motion fails right 32 motion fails all right board we need a new motion Okay so it requires a requires a 4 to one most I'm told a lot of ours require four to one so if it's 3 to2 it doesn't meet the 4 to one threshold then one of the naay votes has got to has got to make a motion to deny and that motion how is that motion going to get seconded so the board member has a change whoever voted for it will have to again change their vote negative after they voted positive well no I guess a three I guess if it's a 3-2 it might be different but no on situations where we need a 4-1 vote um well that's interesting I didn't realize some of our votes had it before1 all of them are all of them are here all variant of special exceptions are 41 yeah for approval or denial I generally what you need is an affirmative vote either way right a vote to approve do you Al I haven't been in a meeting with you but you all still write our motions for us yes but but if there's only one voting well if there are two vot only two voting against it then I guess you get a motion a second but the motion to deny would fail we normally would say you know I'm sorry you know the motion failed yeah generally you need a motion I'll look into it on on for this particular board generally you need an affirmative motion either way yeah I hate netive negative motions they get very you got to do them you got to do them if you got to do them you got to do them no you don't have to the last point on uh parliamentary procedure kind of gets into our next um item but uh when you're discussing whether to vote for or against a particular item it is uh always best practice to discuss reasons why you're reaching that conclusion right hey I don't think they've met you know one of the criteria for a variance discuss why I didn't hear any evidence supporting this particular criteria that's why I'm going to make a motion to deny the request right we want to make sure that kind of information is on the record so that when we turn around and prepare the order right based on whatever the motion is that information can be reflected in the order all right it's required by law that the reason for you know the up or down is in the is you know in the order and the only way we can do that is if that information is communicated by you all during the meeting is that that's drafted in the motion like do I I have to justify my vote whenever I Vote or is do you do that when you draft the final motion which we read and then vote on yeah so the way it works is that you all let's say it's unanimous uh vote to deny right and you guys deny and um let's say there's no reason on the record for the you guys just heard the testimony and that's it and you know there was no discussion you know I make a motion we deny that the variant request second all in favor say I unanimous vote at that point you know I don't know what to put in the order staff doesn't know what to put in the order and it's not like you guys turn around and you know at the next meeting approve orders that were decided the the month before right the decision happens right there in you know while the applicant's here right um so you know I I moveed to deny the request because they failed to meet you know one of the six criteria we we have you know they failed to meet this criteria I didn't hear any evidence on that so all the criteria are spelled out in each of the applications positive and negative so and when you guys make a motion you know the only thing that happens after that is the chair will sign off on the motion and uh a certif by copy will end up with staff and that's it the the order doesn't come back to you all for a vote right yes so in that 3-2 scenario and the and the two votes the two votes effectively deny the motion do the at what point do those two people voting to deny the motion at what point do they have to disclose their reasons for denying the motion well that's why I was saying generally you need an affirmative vote either way yes or no no so that way you can put a reason in the in the order denying the motion or approving it'll turn out to be a pretty spirited discussion if it's that close so everybody will have something yeah but uh but I think some of your questions will be answered here at the very end of the presentation I promise I'm almost done um quasi judicial hearings right you guys know what judicial hearings are you've seen Law and Order right you've seen all the stuff on the news recently all the all the different uh formal judgments that are going on right you all just like a normal judge you're an adjudicated B all right what do I mean by that under Florida law there are times where boards particularly this board every time you guys act you're in a clause on judicial uh manner right that's when you might act as a judge uh your planning board counterparts they have these things called legislative items it's where they get to make policy right right they get to recommend changes they get to approve changes to a comprehensive plan right those are legislative right because they're creating new standards they're creating new rules new math amendments right whereas You all take existing rules what's the standard for a variance what's the standard for a special exception for this particular zone right and then you're applying facts that the applicants bring you staff brings you and you're applying those facts that you here here to that existing law and then you say y or no right so you all are kind of acting as a judge there are no formal rules that apply to this body when you guys do your thing right there are some rules though not as strict as a real uh judicial action right like in a circuit court down the street but there are going to be some fundamental things we're going to want to follow and we're going to talk about those right now we know these are we have to afford two key things for every hearing for every uh application that comes to us the first is notice of hearing we have to give adequate notice of the hearing someone can't come into City staff and say Hey you know i' I'd like a variance for you know this uh for this aspect of my property oh yeah you know all you know friendly yeah yeah we'll uh we'll work it up and then we'll let you know when you're going before the board and then they never get notice to the mail they never receive formal notice any uh other interested parties don't receive uh notice of the action who may be entitled to it and we have a proceeding they don't show up we deny the application oh so sorry your application was denied right we can't do that we have to give adequate notice of uh the proceeding staff take takes care of all that on on the front so that's not necessarily anything you all need to worry about what you guys need to focus on is the second component right we have to give applicants an opportunity to be heard before the board right what does that mean they have to be able to present evidence cross-examine Witnesses and be inform and this is a a little poetic but be informed of all the facts upon which the board acts talk about what that means and why getting a an email from an applicant might not be okay right under this right so we're talking about evidence here right all the facts staff you know great packet that they delivered to you all maybe the applicant has materials that you all will get there will be a um there may be a slide deck they present as a part of their presentation a to you all they may have Engineers or Architects or experts or surveyors or Engineers come to the meeting and give their bonafides to you you know I'm an I've been an engineer for 30 years in uh you know down in Melbourne and and you know here are my here's my expertise right folks are going to put on evidence they're going to try to get you all to buy their you know their sign so what kind of evidence do we need to base our decisions on the law says we have to make our decisions based on relevant competent substantial evidence all right I'll read you the definition then we'll talk a little bit about what we're looking for right such evidence as will establish a substantial basis of fact from which a facted issue can be reasonably inferred and the evidence has to be sufficiently relevant and material and that a reasonable mind would accept it as adequate to support the conclusion of reach right only fact-based testimony or evidence is going to be cons considered by you all so if any evidence is irrelevant right maybe uh you know we're talking I keep picking on the subject but a variance for a dock that might not be allowed and someone says well you know my neighbor down in Satellite Beach had had a dock like this go in and they just hate it so I'm going to deny this request because you know my NE you know that experience with my neighbor that is not relevant comp substantial evidence to to uh you know base your decision it's not relevant it's not about the issue before you right and even relevant evidence sometimes is not competent or substantial it's not reaching the level that you would need to infer reasonable you know a reasonable FactFinder would say yeah I agree with the engineer that you know that piling would be 5T away from the other property line because they've show showed me the survey they've given me their testimony that all checks out right if some member of the public or some other interested party comes up and says well you know I have no experience in surveys or Maps but I can tell you that's not 5 ft it's relevant evidence it's about the matter at hand but it's not going to be compens substantial right and we'll talk about why that is the set the the the black letter of it that I want you guys to burn into your brains this question is the board's decision supported by relevant fact-based testimony or documentary evidence concerning the request before the board testimony docu documentary evidence is it relevant I can use it right so Maps diagrams reports testimony from Witnesses from our staff our staff professional staff they are recognized as experts by Florida courts so you can trust what they're saying all right here saes fine too um so if someone says oh you know my so and so heard this or that it's not necessarily going to be excluded right there's no objection you know that's hearsay or it's sustained my OB doesn't work like that um uh we can use hearsay uh generally with the kinds of items that are coming before you all it's not going to come down to that so uh when members of the public or folks who are not considered experts right Joe scho off the street who comes in to talk about um you know how some survey that was submitted was done incorrectly when the Ci's uh you know folks and the surveyor for the applicant come in and tell you why it is correct and provide you with the survey right the opinion of of a lay person it's not going to get to the level of confidence substantial um generally uh that is the rule there are sub exceptions um these will almost never come up uh in your me in your meetings where a u a member of the public will put on confident substantial evidence where they are not um some sort of expert uh if the testimonies uh on a subjective matter right things that don't require expertise um could be competent substantial evidence but generally the weight of the evidence is going to support U uh something else uh your decisions are not supposed to be popularity contests it's not about how many folks show up to the meeting um it's not about how many emails you know staff gets um the decision is based on what you all hear during the meeting okay talk about why that's important what you come to learn reviewing your your packet you know staff gives you whatnot and if you maybe you go to visit the site you look at it with your own eyes uh you know you can utilize that information but we want to keep it based on the evidence that's before the board right what that's going to take what that's going to come down to right when staff's done with their presentation when the applicant is finished with their presentation you all are going to get to assign weight to the evidence right you are you can ask additional questions too and can we have that survey pulled up again hey can I have that phot up again hey applicant I want to talk to your engineer again real quick I have one unresolved uh item I need to ask about right that is completely fine in quasi judicial decisions you just need some competent substantial evidence to support the decision you you don't need 51% of the evidence to support the decision right you don't need 95% doesn't need to be totally conclusive just needs to be some evidence there to support the decision even if the majority of the evidence points the other way as long as there is some confident substantial evidence a little kernel out there for you to grab on to you can go ahead and make a motion and that motion will be valid right be a legal motion or you get a legal order out of motion last part of the uh of the presentation tonight uh you guys are almost through hearing me had to talk what are xar Communications they are Communications between a decision maker that's you all and another party without the presence or permission of all other parties to the proceeding okay so if uh if an applicant calls you maybe it's a developer maybe it's a homeowner that lives down the street from you you know they knock on your door hey John I I need to talk to you about my various requests coming up you politely tell them sorry can't talk to you about that close the door right because that would be a communication between decision maker yourself and another party to the proceeding the applicant right that is an next Heart Take communication unless of course you have the permission from the city to talk to that individual uh but generally that's not going to do it either CU sometimes there are other folks who are interested parties to the items [Music] of the important thing to know about these sorts of communications is that the law says they are presumptively prejudicial right presumed to be Prejudice at that point uh and that could be a b a very happens all the time a basis to overturn an otherwise valid decision made by the board so what happens if you happen to run into the developer and they talk to you a little bit about their special exception we're coming in for your neighbor man they just get your ear down at Fourth Street oh I got to talk to you about this dock I want to put in and you know you hear just enough for it to be an issue what do we do right we disclose them before the board meeting before the item comes up I'll ask does anyone have any expart Communications like to disclose most folk even though it's not an expert communication most folks will say I went to the site I saw the site that's it perfectly fine some people will say yeah I went to the site the applicant had a chitchat with me you know she told me about her business and uh you know we went our separate way right we just need to explain a little bit of detail about the communication if there ever is so what does that look like we have to identify the person or the group entity that we talk with I talked to the business owner when I went on the site visit right a quick summary of the subject we talked about what her business is and uh she told me that she's coming into the meeting uh next you know tonight right that's all we talked about um we have to make sure that this disclosure again happens before the proceeding you can't you know there can't be a motion a second and oh by the way uh you know I had a three-hour steak dinner with uh the applicant where she uh described to me why she really needs this uh variance approval have to do it before the meeting or before the item gets called and then that disclosure is going to become a part of the record right if someone's here with a court reporter it'll be reflected in the minutes right once we do that we are good but we're not going to have them because we're going to avoid them just like we're going to avoid Communications between board members that board members um we went through a lot uh you all are now experts in local government laws it relates to you um if you ever have any questions before you all leave I'll give you my cell number so we can can you do that right now I'd love to give it over the internet but un oh you can't do that all but that's still a private for but yeah we'll uh we'll go over uh my phone number and if you guys ever have any questions you just want to talk to me about local government stuff you hear about a law that comes up whatever you want to talk about I'm more than happy to take I'll get a number from you if we need it our firm uh is on a flat rate uh feet with the city which means if you call me uh one time this year or a hundred times this year uh the city pays the same amount I more I always so happy to talk to folks who are on boards I represent um you know I find it helps a lot if you ever think you have anything that you need to chat with me about before a meeting please call me before the meeting so that we can uh hammer out an answer uh out of the public eye all right good thanks guys thank you yeah thank you some of you new guys you know you got to fill out that form one you know what that is your form one have you done that yet form one being what your financial status did that yeah we don't have to do the form six thank God all right so the next thing on the agenda is the uh introduction to the new staff and I'll uh I'll let R I was waiting on theair to invite me up that's a new staff meet the new boss I I would like to say yeah uh I'm a new staff member Randy Stevenson develop development services back for a period of time so glad to be with you uh I would like to say to and extend staff's invitation if you have any questions about something coming up on the agenda call us telephone call happy to talk to you about it I'd rather you ask me in my office or one of the staff members in their office rather than this setting it always works out better that way uh your primary contact is going to be Cory Hall uh on our staff uh doing a great job and he's going to be your primary point of contact you can also call myself Devin tally is uh primarily working with our planning board but she's also the we we emphasize teamwork here so we're going to be doing this type of thing we're going to be going back and forth and working together on this and our principal planner back here Lauren Willy I got it right uh didn't know if y'all had met them they're they're fairly new too not as new as me but they're fairly new so I wanted you to meet staff tonight and uh go over any of that uh that having been said I would delay any questions you might have on anything any projects upcoming until after Cory gets a chance to go over with you the year and Reporting the financial disclosures any questions of me at this point thank you Randy thank you you're up Sir so in your packet you've got a year-end report and this uh encapsulates everything that happened last year for your review um we will have to have it signed approve so um if somebody wants to make the motion I guess motion to approve the year on report second all in favor I I okay 40 vote very good and then we also have in in your packet the uh the number of completed permits for the financials and uh basically we had 400 or 4,575 permits that were actually completed um revenue generated from that is right around 1.2 million so a lot of work got done can I ask a question sure um it's been discussed for about the last 15 18 months uh all the short-term rentals that we have like 1187 or close to 12200 and we only had 189 registered so there was going to be a software company or somebody's hired they start registering the Gap has that happened that has happened we have this company called rental scape that we are using and they basically go out to all the different sites and pull in the information and they're providing us with who's license and who isn't that's helping us fix that Gap so is there a revenue being generated through them now oh yeah I'm sure um it's and it'll be continuing but still says only 189 so I would have expected it to be a lot more than that I mean um well September that's 189 is for the application but when you go to the BTR for vacation run oh sorry oh it's up to 600 now they broken out all right so there's a lot of progress then thank you yeah thanks Tevin I guess I should take a look when ask a question any other questions what does the city charge citizens to have a garage sale nothing it all it does they they file a permit and it basically gets them on the City calendar which is helpful for the applicant as well yeah in that too um and also for the the new folks I attached a copy of the uh rules and procedures for the board of adjustment um that wasn't tied on this this was kind of a a last minute thought we have any pending projects or people U coming up for new projects yeah we have a couple coming up um I think in April we'll probably see our first one okay and I was checking my email Michael did text me or email me and said he wouldn't be here just my bad okay right just so everybody knows all right anything else any other questions a welcome to the board you guys and thank you for your time you have to adjourn or uh anybody want any member Reports say anything no no that's a motion to adour thank you